6001|5988|2004-10-26 19:36:35|seeratlas|Re: Engines, Engines and Engines|Fred, thanks for the info, that's an interesting thought as those ford diesels cover the earth. The 54 footer I captained for a time had a 120 Lehman six that did its work without complaint for ten years. Only problem was that it sometimes was hard to start in the morning when anchored off the Alaska glaciers...go figure hehehehe. I like big and slow as long as it doesn't get too heavy. I'm thinking I'm looking at 550 to 750 lbs here, probably towards the higher figure. Hard to beat a Perkins if you can get one for a price, but the newer ones are higher winding and I'm not up for that. seer --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "fenixrises" wrote: > > Hi seer, > > Years ago Ford/Lehman made a marinized version of a Ford tractor > diesel. I think it was about 200 cubic inches and rated at 60hp. That > may not seem like much but this particular engine had a factory > option for a 200lb flywheel. This massive flywheel made the engine > very smooth and evened out the power output significantly. I know of > two different Roberts 55' 45,000lb boats that used these engines and > said they worked great with plenty of power using a Borg-Warner > Velvet Drive 2.91:1 transmission. For a 42' boat this is probably > more power than you need but an old tractor motor of this type may be > inexpensive and easy to find. > > I think a good old Perkins 4-108 would work very well and there are > 1,000s floating around all over the world. > > Fred > > > > "seeratlas" wrote: > > > > I know there's been some discussion about what kind of engines > people > > are contemplating. I was wondering if anyone ever concluded that > > they'd found a rebuilt old generator, or tractor, or auto diesel > that > > turned out to work just fine. > > > > Seems to me that there are ton of Mercedes 2.4's and 3.0's out there > > not to mention the isuzu, nissan and mitsu car and truck diesels > that > > look like pretty good alternatives. ESPECIALLY when the swain boats > > are using the skeg cooler setup so you don't have to fool with raw > > seawater. > > > > I'm just starting to explore this avenue so if anyone has already > done > > the research I'd appreciate hearing from you. An engine with > > replaceable wet sleeves would seem ideal. > > > > I'm going to need about 45 to 60 continuous and would like to get > that > > at 1800 to 2400 rpm which tells me I'm looking for a > car/truck/tractor > > diesel road rated at something like 75 hp or better. > > > > Again, any thoughts appreciated. I'm not too worried about worldwide > > port availability of spares as I plan on taking the reasonably > > forseeable ones with me. > > > > as always, thanks in advance. > > > > seer | 6002|5988|2004-10-26 20:12:57|Michael Casling|Re: Engines, Engines and Engines|I hope so, it is going in my fishing boat as soon as I figure out a drive system, currently in favour of a Volvo stern drive as being the easiest to install. Then the motor will be available for a larger sailboat if that ever happens in the future. I need to spend some time on the large puddle with the current boat before that decision is made. Currently shopping for a trailer to get it to the left coast. I am looking for a gooseneck lowboy with a 12000 pound capacity and at least a 20 foot deck if anyone knows of one. Best price on a new one so far is $5650- plus taxes. Michael ----- Original Message ----- From: seeratlas To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 2004 4:28 PM Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Engines, Engines and Engines Michael, I've heard nothing but good things about that Nissan from the Aussie 4x4 guys I know. seer --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Michael Casling wrote: > I got a 2 1/2 litre Nissan for $600- from a wrecker in Abbortsford BC. It has a gear driven camshaft and makes a lot of torque which for me made it more prefferred than the Isuzu with less power or the VW which was a lot more $$. Have not run it yet so this is all theory at the moment. > Michael > ----- Original Message ----- > From: seeratlas > To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 2004 11:42 AM > Subject: [origamiboats] Engines, Engines and Engines > > > > I know there's been some discussion about what kind of engines people > are contemplating. I was wondering if anyone ever concluded that > they'd found a rebuilt old generator, or tractor, or auto diesel that > turned out to work just fine. > > Seems to me that there are ton of Mercedes 2.4's and 3.0's out there > not to mention the isuzu, nissan and mitsu car and truck diesels that > look like pretty good alternatives. ESPECIALLY when the swain boats > are using the skeg cooler setup so you don't have to fool with raw > seawater. > > I'm just starting to explore this avenue so if anyone has already done > the research I'd appreciate hearing from you. An engine with > replaceable wet sleeves would seem ideal. > > I'm going to need about 45 to 60 continuous and would like to get that > at 1800 to 2400 rpm which tells me I'm looking for a car/truck/tractor > diesel road rated at something like 75 hp or better. > > Again, any thoughts appreciated. I'm not too worried about worldwide > port availability of spares as I plan on taking the reasonably > forseeable ones with me. > > as always, thanks in advance. > > seer > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ADVERTISEMENT > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Yahoo! Groups Links > > a.. To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/ > > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links a.. To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/ b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 6003|5988|2004-10-26 21:22:37|Courtney Thomas|Re: Engines, Engines and Engines|You can do much better than that on www.truckpaper.com or Ebay. HTH Courtney Michael Casling wrote: > I hope so, it is going in my fishing boat as soon as I figure out a drive system, currently in favour of a Volvo stern drive as being the easiest to install. Then the motor will be available for a larger sailboat if that ever happens in the future. I need to spend some time on the large puddle with the current boat before that decision is made. Currently shopping for a trailer to get it to the left coast. I am looking for a gooseneck lowboy with a 12000 pound capacity and at least a 20 foot deck if anyone knows of one. Best price on a new one so far is $5650- plus taxes. > Michael > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: seeratlas > To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 2004 4:28 PM > Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Engines, Engines and Engines > > > > Michael, > I've heard nothing but good things about that Nissan from the Aussie > 4x4 guys I know. > > seer > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Michael Casling wrote: > > I got a 2 1/2 litre Nissan for $600- from a wrecker in Abbortsford > BC. It has a gear driven camshaft and makes a lot of torque which for > me made it more prefferred than the Isuzu with less power or the VW > which was a lot more $$. Have not run it yet so this is all theory at > the moment. > > Michael > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: seeratlas > > To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 2004 11:42 AM > > Subject: [origamiboats] Engines, Engines and Engines > > > > > > > > I know there's been some discussion about what kind of engines people > > are contemplating. I was wondering if anyone ever concluded that > > they'd found a rebuilt old generator, or tractor, or auto diesel that > > turned out to work just fine. > > > > Seems to me that there are ton of Mercedes 2.4's and 3.0's out there > > not to mention the isuzu, nissan and mitsu car and truck diesels that > > look like pretty good alternatives. ESPECIALLY when the swain boats > > are using the skeg cooler setup so you don't have to fool with raw > > seawater. > > > > I'm just starting to explore this avenue so if anyone has already done > > the research I'd appreciate hearing from you. An engine with > > replaceable wet sleeves would seem ideal. > > > > I'm going to need about 45 to 60 continuous and would like to get that > > at 1800 to 2400 rpm which tells me I'm looking for a car/truck/tractor > > diesel road rated at something like 75 hp or better. > > > > Again, any thoughts appreciated. I'm not too worried about worldwide > > port availability of spares as I plan on taking the reasonably > > forseeable ones with me. > > > > as always, thanks in advance. > > > > seer > > > > > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > ADVERTISEMENT > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > a.. To visit your group on the web, go to: > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/ > > > > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > Service. > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ADVERTISEMENT > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Yahoo! Groups Links > > a.. To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/ > > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > -- s/v Mutiny Rhodes Bounty II lying Oriental, NC WDB5619| 6004|5978|2004-10-26 21:46:32|brentswain38|Re: transmissions|I've been told that twin disc trannys are twice as good as Hurth and half the price. I haven't been too impreaased with hurth, having trashed several of them.I understand that the twin disc 360 is a match in size, bolt patterns and HP for a hurth 150, god for any engoine you are likely to use in a 36. Vic Klassen told me of a good trick for installing a tranny. Just hole saw a hole in the plate over one of the bolts for the damper plate. Then you can bolt the plate finger tight on the flywheel, bolt the works to the bell housing, give it a spin, then tighten the damper plate to the flywheel with a long socket wrench thru the hole, then turn the flywheel until each bolt shows up.. This keeps everthing well centred. I'd be inclined to saw another hole over one of the springs in the damper plate so you can check on them from time to time without having to unbolt anything. transmission Marine in Florida sopecialises in marine trannys, new and used . You may fing them on the internet. Let us know how you make out. Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "prairiemaidca" wrote: > > Hi All > > Prairie Maid needs a transmission. Can anyone advise us as to places > in the lower mainland or Vancouver Island, BC where we can look at > various possibilities for a suitable transmission? Any suggestions > as to makes or models that are suitable for a Swain 36? Websites, > dealers, etc. > > Martin & Betty Forster (Prairie Maid) | 6005|5978|2004-10-26 21:47:33|brentswain38|Re: transmissions|2 to one works well for 36 footers and the prop isn't too big Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "richytill" wrote: > > Martin, I have a couple of rebuilt Borg Warner 71C's here in > Sechelt. Up in Stettler right now. rt > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "fenixrises" > wrote: > > > > Martin, > > > > On E-Bay there are often used and or rebuilt Borg-Warners. > > > > Borg-Warners are very strong and suitable for sailboat auxiliaries > > but you need to find one with the proper ratio. The units are long > > because the reverse gear is added to the back end of the > > transmission. The do require the lub oil to be cooled. Older 71 > > series can have 2.91:1 ratio and the newer 72 series as well. > > > > For sailboat auxiliaries I recommend 3:1 ratio or as close as you > can > > get. > > > > Do not know if prices posted on this site are currently valid. > > > > http://www.simplicity-marine.com/Hurth-ZF.htm > > > > You would probably need at least a 150 series though the 250 > series > > is only a few dollars more. These transmissions also come with > option > > for external fluid cooling, recommended. > > > > Fred > > > > > > "prairiemaidca" wrote: > > > > > > Hi All > > > > > > Prairie Maid needs a transmission. Can anyone advise us as to > > places > > > in the lower mainland or Vancouver Island, BC where we can look > at > > > various possibilities for a suitable transmission? Any > suggestions > > > as to makes or models that are suitable for a Swain 36? > Websites, > > > dealers, etc. > > > > > > Martin & Betty Forster (Prairie Maid) | 6006|5978|2004-10-26 22:16:45|fenixrises|Re: transmissions|Hi John, Those numbers are SAE(Society of Automotive Engineers) standards. The numbers correspond to the bolt pattern on the bell housing to which a transmission or other driven device would bolt. This would be the spacing, size and number of and type of bolts. Therefore any manufacturer's transmission of a #3 mount type will fit any engine manufacturer's bell housing with a #3 pattern. A drive plate will still be needed to couple the engine flywheel to the transmission input shaft. This may be proprietary to the transmission manufacturer. The bolt type and pattern of the engine flywheel needs to match the transmission manufacturer's drive plate. The drive plate hub is splined to match the transmission input shaft. I do not know if drive plates are standardized in similar fashion, i.e. with SAE numbers. Drive plates usually have shock absorbing springs installed similar to a standard clutch plate. Fred johnkupris@a... wrote: > Dumd question # 101... > > Boats and harbors lists some engines and trans. Sometimes they describe trans > as #3 or #4 or #5. Are those numbers related to what engines they fit or > what? How does somebody match a trans and a engine? John > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 6007|5988|2004-10-26 22:28:34|gschnell|Re: Engines, Engines and Engines|Actually, there is no "shaft" driving the accessories, I just added two more sheaves to the front crankshaft pulley. I ran the engine up, started well, no smoke, no rattles, no rebuild. I just cleaned it up, masked it and painted with hi-temp engine enamel. Gord seeratlas wrote: > > Ahhhhh, > :) > Now I know where that shaft driving your accessory complex is coming > from. Gord, Did you rebuild that engine? At first glance I thought it > > was new. :) > > seer > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Gordon Schnell > wrote: > > I've been lurking this engine discussion. Thought I'd throw in my 2 > cents worth (or less). I got a VW 1.6l turbo diesel complete with > clutch, tranaxle and instrument panel for $550. Considered that to be > a score. > > Gord > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT [click here] > > --------------------------------------------------------------- > Yahoo! Groups Links > > * To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/ > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > Service. > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]| 6008|5988|2004-10-26 22:32:45|gschnell|Re: Engines, Engines and Engines|I did the math on the 1.6l VW - rated 68HP at 4000 RPM. Ideal operating speed id 2400 RPM. I'm using a Borg Warner Velvet drive at 2.91:1 and a 3-blade 21" MaxProp. The prop turns at 831 RPM at ideal engine speed. Pitch needs to be set at 16. Gord seeratlas wrote: > > Ben, > > My initial thinking is to go with a BIG two bladed stainless prop so I > > can hide it behind the skeg for efficient sailing. I figure I'll spin > it REAL slow with a 3/1 gear reduction and look for a diesel that > doesn't have to rev up too much to get enough torque to turn it. > > I'll check out your list. > > seer > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III" wrote: > > > > I have seen many cardiesel and truckdieselconversions working > > for years day afther day on african fisherboats, the worst for > > those engines is to stay unused for months :-) , see the file > > dieselengine conversions in Files , the most important is to > > choose the correct propeller with the reduction. > > Old Ben > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "seeratlas" > > wrote: > > > > > > I know there's been some discussion about what kind of > > engines people > > > are contemplating. I was wondering if anyone ever concluded > > that > > > they'd found a rebuilt old generator, or tractor, or auto diesel > > that > > > turned out to work just fine. > > > > > > Seems to me that there are ton of Mercedes 2.4's and 3.0's out > > there > > > not to mention the isuzu, nissan and mitsu car and truck > > diesels that > > > look like pretty good alternatives. ESPECIALLY when the swain > > boats > > > are using the skeg cooler setup so you don't have to fool with > > raw > > > seawater. > > > > > > I'm just starting to explore this avenue so if anyone has already > > done > > > the research I'd appreciate hearing from you. An engine with > > > replaceable wet sleeves would seem ideal. > > > > > > I'm going to need about 45 to 60 continuous and would like to > > get that > > > at 1800 to 2400 rpm which tells me I'm looking for a > > car/truck/tractor > > > diesel road rated at something like 75 hp or better. > > > > > > Again, any thoughts appreciated. I'm not too worried about > > worldwide > > > port availability of spares as I plan on taking the reasonably > > > forseeable ones with me. > > > > > > as always, thanks in advance. > > > > > > seer > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT [click here] > > --------------------------------------------------------------- > Yahoo! Groups Links > > * To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/ > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > Service. > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]| 6009|6009|2004-10-26 22:50:59|prairiemaidca|No dumb questions|Hi John The numbers are SAE standards that manufacturers use to match the engine bell housing to the transmission. Hope that helps. Martin (Prairie Maid)| 6010|3724|2004-10-26 22:58:30|prairiemaidca|Transmissions|Hi Brent Talked to the local supplier in Edmonton for twin disc and they are recommending a model MG-5011A for our boat and engine combination. The transmission is rated for a 69 to 250 horse and is a ten degree down angle. The only problem is by the time you add in the cooler and everything that is needed you are talking approx. $6,000 Cdn. Have talked to Ken and will possibly meet up with him on his boat in November if he's not back in Alberta to sell some hay. I'll be out the week of November 7th. Are you going to be on the island that week? Martin (Prairie Maid)| 6011|3724|2004-10-27 00:41:46|Richard Till|Re: Transmissions|Martin, a rebuilt borg warner goes for around $1000 here. rt >From: "prairiemaidca" >Reply-To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com >To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com >Subject: [origamiboats] Transmissions >Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 02:58:08 -0000 > > >Hi Brent > >Talked to the local supplier in Edmonton for twin disc and they are >recommending a model MG-5011A for our boat and engine combination. >The transmission is rated for a 69 to 250 horse and is a ten degree >down angle. The only problem is by the time you add in the cooler >and everything that is needed you are talking approx. $6,000 Cdn. > >Have talked to Ken and will possibly meet up with him on his boat in >November if he's not back in Alberta to sell some hay. I'll be out >the week of November 7th. Are you going to be on the island that >week? > >Martin (Prairie Maid) > > > _________________________________________________________________ MSN� Calendar keeps you organized and takes the effort out of scheduling get-togethers. http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines Start enjoying all the benefits of MSN� Premium right now and get the first two months FREE*.| 6012|5988|2004-10-27 08:14:28|Courtney Thomas|Re: Engines, Engines and Engines|How'd you determine the pitch, please ? Thank you. Courtney gschnell wrote: > I did the math on the 1.6l VW - rated 68HP at 4000 RPM. Ideal operating > speed id 2400 RPM. I'm using a Borg Warner Velvet drive at 2.91:1 and a > 3-blade 21" MaxProp. The prop turns at 831 RPM at ideal engine speed. > Pitch needs to be set at 16. > Gord > > > seeratlas wrote: > > >>Ben, >> >>My initial thinking is to go with a BIG two bladed stainless prop so I >> >>can hide it behind the skeg for efficient sailing. I figure I'll spin >>it REAL slow with a 3/1 gear reduction and look for a diesel that >>doesn't have to rev up too much to get enough torque to turn it. >> >>I'll check out your list. >> >>seer >>--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III" wrote: >> >>>I have seen many cardiesel and truckdieselconversions working >>>for years day afther day on african fisherboats, the worst for >>>those engines is to stay unused for months :-) , see the file >>>dieselengine conversions in Files , the most important is to >>>choose the correct propeller with the reduction. >>>Old Ben >>>--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "seeratlas" >>> wrote: >>> >>>>I know there's been some discussion about what kind of >>>> >>>engines people >>> >>>>are contemplating. I was wondering if anyone ever concluded >>>> >>>that >>> >>>>they'd found a rebuilt old generator, or tractor, or auto diesel >>>> >>>that >>> >>>>turned out to work just fine. >>>> >>>>Seems to me that there are ton of Mercedes 2.4's and 3.0's out >>>> >>>there >>> >>>>not to mention the isuzu, nissan and mitsu car and truck >>>> >>>diesels that >>> >>>>look like pretty good alternatives. ESPECIALLY when the swain >>>> >>>boats >>> >>>>are using the skeg cooler setup so you don't have to fool with >>>> >>>raw >>> >>>>seawater. >>>> >>>>I'm just starting to explore this avenue so if anyone has already >>>> >>>done >>> >>>>the research I'd appreciate hearing from you. An engine with >>>>replaceable wet sleeves would seem ideal. >>>> >>>>I'm going to need about 45 to 60 continuous and would like to >>>> >>>get that >>> >>>>at 1800 to 2400 rpm which tells me I'm looking for a >>>> >>>car/truck/tractor >>> >>>>diesel road rated at something like 75 hp or better. >>>> >>>>Again, any thoughts appreciated. I'm not too worried about >>>> >>>worldwide >>> >>>>port availability of spares as I plan on taking the reasonably >>>>forseeable ones with me. >>>> >>>>as always, thanks in advance. >>>> >>>>seer >>>> >> >> >> >> >>To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com >>To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: >>origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com >> >> >> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor >> > ADVERTISEMENT > [click here] > > >> --------------------------------------------------------------- >>Yahoo! Groups Links >> >> * To visit your group on the web, go to: >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/ >> >> * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >> origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com >> >> * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of >> Service. >> >> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > -- s/v Mutiny Rhodes Bounty II lying Oriental, NC WDB5619| 6013|6009|2004-10-27 08:34:06|johnkupris@aol.com|Re: No dumb questions|In a message dated 10/26/04 9:53:22 PM Central Daylight Time, bforster@... writes: > Subj: [origamiboats] No dumb questions > Date: 10/26/04 9:53:22 PM Central Daylight Time > From: bforster@... > Reply-to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > Sent from the Internet > > > > > > Hi John > > The numbers are SAE standards that manufacturers use to match the > engine bell housing to the transmission. > > Hope that helps. > > Martin (Prairie Maid) > > Hi Martin, yes it helps, inch by inch I'll figure it out. Also it seems that > some builders make their own eng/trans adaptor plates, or do they.? John > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]| 6014|5988|2004-10-27 11:51:17|Gordon Schnell|Re: Engines, Engines and Engines|The easiest way is to contact the manufacturer of the prop you intend to use. If you have all the technical details of your boat, hull characteristics, engine and transmission, they can come pretty close. My insurance to calculation errors is the adjustable pitch on the MaxProp. Gord [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]| 6015|5988|2004-10-27 12:30:08|Courtney Thomas|Re: Engines, Engines and Engines|Thank you Gord. Do you know where I can find the particulars on how they go about matching boat, transmission & engine with prop ? Cordially, Courtney Gordon Schnell wrote: > The easiest way is to contact the manufacturer of the prop you intend to use. If you have all the technical details of your boat, hull characteristics, engine and transmission, they can come pretty close. My insurance to calculation errors is the adjustable pitch on the MaxProp. > Gord > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > -- s/v Mutiny Rhodes Bounty II lying Oriental, NC WDB5619| 6016|5978|2004-10-27 12:54:32|RICHARD KOKEMOOR|Re: transmissions|johnkupris@... wrote Boats and harbors lists some engines and trans. Sometimes they describe trans as #3 or #4 or #5. Are those numbers related to what engines they fit or what? How does somebody match a trans and a engine? John The numbers refer to the SAE (Society of Automotive Engineers, I think) standard flanges through which the power of the engine is transferrred to the reduction gear, which must have a matching flange to bolt up to, of course. To find compatible transmissions, go to http://boatdiesel.com/ and click on Specifications, then Engines, select your engine and click on Find Suitable Gears. --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete - You start. We finish. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]| 6017|5964|2004-10-27 13:40:10|carlmbentley|Re: My proposed Swain Schooner|or a well placed bit of mirror ?? > For the forward windows: to watch the sails you could place a small > hatch just above your steering seat to get a real good view. > > Gerd | 6018|5988|2004-10-27 13:56:51|Gordon Schnell|Re: Engines, Engines and Engines|There are a number of books on the process. I don't have all the titles, by any means. I will see if I can find you some titles. I suspect that the prop designers have read some or most of them but experience with their own props as they develop and repair them is likely to be their best database. Gord [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]| 6019|5988|2004-10-27 14:11:59|khooper_fboats|Re: Engines, Engines and Engines|First post. Be nice to me. On hiding the two-bladed prop behind the skeg: I think this is brilliant in the first place (possibly because I don't know what I'm talking about) and then I remembered that some conventional automotive CV driveshafts are splined so they can easily grow longer-shorter. For instance I'm very familiar with the driveshafts Volkswagen used on their Kombis for many years. They're bulletproof and they're capable of lots of travel. I never measured it but they can probably grow by nine inches before they hit the limit? So what happens if you are driving the prop with a CV joint anyway, and when the prop isn't turning, you actually pull it up close (closer) to the skeg by withdrawing the drive shaft? If hiding behind the skeg is good then actually settling into it might be better? On torque curves and automotive diesels: I've been reading the archives and there is frequent dismay over the torque curves of automotive diesels. There is no reason this should be a problem if you are going to rebuild the engine anyway--the torque curve is mostly governed by the shape of the cam lobes, and any cam specialist can easily move the torque right where you'd like it by regrinding the cam. Consult a race shop or competent engine rebuilder (doesn't have to be familiar with marine engines, cams is cams). --Hoop --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "seeratlas" wrote: > > Ben, > > My initial thinking is to go with a BIG two bladed stainless prop so I > can hide it behind the skeg for efficient sailing. I figure I'll spin > it REAL slow with a 3/1 gear reduction and look for a diesel that > doesn't have to rev up too much to get enough torque to turn it. > > I'll check out your list. > > seer > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III" wrote: > > > > I have seen many cardiesel and truckdieselconversions working > > for years day afther day on african fisherboats, the worst for > > those engines is to stay unused for months :-) , see the file > > dieselengine conversions in Files , the most important is to > > choose the correct propeller with the reduction. > > Old Ben > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "seeratlas" > > wrote: > > > > > > I know there's been some discussion about what kind of > > engines people > > > are contemplating. I was wondering if anyone ever concluded > > that > > > they'd found a rebuilt old generator, or tractor, or auto diesel > > that > > > turned out to work just fine. > > > > > > Seems to me that there are ton of Mercedes 2.4's and 3.0's out > > there > > > not to mention the isuzu, nissan and mitsu car and truck > > diesels that > > > look like pretty good alternatives. ESPECIALLY when the swain > > boats > > > are using the skeg cooler setup so you don't have to fool with > > raw > > > seawater. > > > > > > I'm just starting to explore this avenue so if anyone has already > > done > > > the research I'd appreciate hearing from you. An engine with > > > replaceable wet sleeves would seem ideal. > > > > > > I'm going to need about 45 to 60 continuous and would like to > > get that > > > at 1800 to 2400 rpm which tells me I'm looking for a > > car/truck/tractor > > > diesel road rated at something like 75 hp or better. > > > > > > Again, any thoughts appreciated. I'm not too worried about > > worldwide > > > port availability of spares as I plan on taking the reasonably > > > forseeable ones with me. > > > > > > as always, thanks in advance. > > > > > > seer | 6020|5988|2004-10-27 15:04:41|edward_stoneuk|Re: Engines, Engines and Engines|Courtney, Dave Gerr's Propeller Handbook might be useful. Adlard Coles Nautical 1997 ISBN 0 7136 57510. Might be published by International Marine in North America. Regards, Ted| 6021|6021|2004-10-27 17:58:43|fenixrises|Engine size and calculations|Hi all, While it may seem a laborous or mysterious job calculating engine size and propellor size in reality it is not. There are some basic things to consider. Sailboats of the type we are considering are displacement hulls therefore their top speed is generally limited to square root of LWL X 1.34. For economic cruising under power usually limit the above to square root of LWL X 1. This gives a speed of between about 5(25' LWL)to slightly more than 8 (36' LWL) knots. Many people overpower theit boats thinking the additional power will push the boat against adverse currents or winds. However if the current nears or exceeds the maximum potential boat speed then a larger motor will do nothing. Overcoming resistance caused by high winds might look like a different matter. Yet the water resistance of a displacement hull trying to exceed the magical 1.34 X square root LWL is far greater. Usually it requires twice as much power to move the boat at 1.34 X square root LWL as at 1 X square root LWL. Increase this to 1.5 and the power needed is doubled again and may not even be possible depending on boat design. Here a higher prismantic coefficient is desirable. Although this is an old rule of thumb, in practice it works quite well. Generally speaking 1 HP per ton displacement or less is adequate for true auxiliary purposes. 1 HP per 1,000lbs displacement is really motor sailer power but it is what many people deem necessary these days. These numbers reflect pretty accurately the power requirements for our kinds of sailboats. Just think about how many people out there are effectively pushing around 35' sailboats with 10HP outboards! For example take Brent's 36'. It has a LWL of 30' and probably displaces about 21,000 lbs when ready to go(I know designed displacement is about 18,000). So maximum speed under power is about 7.34(1.34 X square root LWL) knots and ideal speed of about 5.5(1 X square root LWL) knots for economical cruising under power. 1 HP per ton displacement equals 21,000 / 2,000 = only 10.5HP! To realize maximum potential speed 1 HP per 1,000lbs displacement equals 21,000 / 1,000 = only 21HP! A typical small 3 or 4 cyl(in some cases a 2 cyl) diesel of the correct type will usually generate ~ 30HP at ~ 3,000 RPM and ~ 20HP at ~ 2,000RPM. This means you can run the engine at 2,000RPM for its entire useful lifespan(somewhere around 10,000 hrs) at this speed and still have about 10HP in reserve for the occasional time it might be needed. To use the available power that the engine produces you must turn a big prop at slow speed! Props turning much above 1,000RPM on a displacement type hull will start to cavitate and rapidly loose efficiency. Skene's has an excellent nomograph for determining prop diameter and pitch. You might be surprised to find that according to the nomograph 30HP at 1000RPM = ~ 21" diameter 2 blade propeller. With proper tip clearance(12% of diamemter) this equals an opening of ~ 26". In an earlier post Brent gave a simple calculation for pitch. Max speed from above example 7.34 knots. One nautical mile equals 6020 feet. 7.34 X 6020 = 44187 feet per hour. Or 44187 / 60 (min) = 736 feet travelled per minute. 736 FPM(8832 inches per minute) / 1000RPM (max prop speed) = 8.8" pitch 8.8" X 2(for 50% propeller slip) = ~ 18" pitch. Skene's nomograph shows about 21" pitch. The lesser pitch of 18" would probably be recommended in order to allow the engine to easily delvelop full RPM. That gives about a 21" diameter and about 18" pitch 2 blade propeller. That is a large prop and a 30HP engine probably produces more power than can be effectively used or ever needed purely for moving the boat. Of course many people will also have big alternators and/or a water maker pump and/or other devices running from the engine so a certain amount of power in reserve is a good thing. From personal experience I know that my last boat(about the same size as Brent's 31) had a 16HP 2cyl Yanmar diesel with a 3.25:1 reduction gear. It turned a 16" diameter X 10" pitch Martec folding prop. At about 3,000RPM this would push the boat straight into 25 knot tradewinds and 6'-8' seas at over 5knots which was really to fast for comfort but doable for a short distance. Remember one of the worst things to do to a diesel engine is to run it underloaded or overloaded. Many of the new small higher speed diesels will run at 1,500 to 2,000 RPM for thier entire useful lives if properlly loaded. Overpowering your boat is not necessary and may be detrimental to the life of the engine and it costs you more to buy the engine, maintain it and pay for the fuel. Of course used or rebuilt engines that are slightly oversized and cheap are hard to turn down. Take care, Fred| 6022|6021|2004-10-27 20:54:26|seeratlas|Re: Engine size and calculations|Great info, great post. food for thought. seer --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "fenixrises" wrote: > > Hi all, > > While it may seem a laborous or mysterious job calculating engine > size and propellor size in reality it is not. > > There are some basic things to consider. > > Sailboats of the type we are considering are displacement hulls > therefore their top speed is generally limited to square root of LWL > X 1.34. > > For economic cruising under power usually limit the above to square > root of LWL X 1. > > This gives a speed of between about 5(25' LWL)to slightly more than 8 > (36' LWL) knots. Many people overpower theit boats thinking the > additional power will push the boat against adverse currents or > winds. However if the current nears or exceeds the maximum potential > boat speed then a larger motor will do nothing. Overcoming resistance > caused by high winds might look like a different matter. Yet the > water resistance of a displacement hull trying to exceed the magical > 1.34 X square root LWL is far greater. > Usually it requires twice as much power to move the boat at 1.34 X > square root LWL as at 1 X square root LWL. Increase this to 1.5 and > the power needed is doubled again and may not even be possible > depending on boat design. Here a higher prismantic coefficient is > desirable. > > Although this is an old rule of thumb, in practice it works quite > well. Generally speaking 1 HP per ton displacement or less is > adequate for true auxiliary purposes. 1 HP per 1,000lbs displacement > is really motor sailer power but it is what many people deem > necessary these days. These numbers reflect pretty accurately the > power requirements for our kinds of sailboats. Just think about how > many people out there are effectively pushing around 35' sailboats > with 10HP outboards! > > For example take Brent's 36'. It has a LWL of 30' and probably > displaces about 21,000 lbs when ready to go(I know designed > displacement is about 18,000). So maximum speed under power is about > 7.34(1.34 X square root LWL) knots and ideal speed of about 5.5(1 X > square root LWL) knots for economical cruising under power. 1 HP per > ton displacement equals 21,000 / 2,000 = only 10.5HP! To realize > maximum potential speed 1 HP per 1,000lbs displacement equals > 21,000 / 1,000 = only 21HP! A typical small 3 or 4 cyl(in some cases > a 2 cyl) diesel of the correct type will usually generate ~ 30HP at ~ > 3,000 RPM and ~ 20HP at ~ 2,000RPM. This means you can run the engine > at 2,000RPM for its entire useful lifespan(somewhere around 10,000 > hrs) at this speed and still have about 10HP in reserve for the > occasional time it might be needed. To use the available power that > the engine produces you must turn a big prop at slow speed! Props > turning much above 1,000RPM on a displacement type hull will start to > cavitate and rapidly loose efficiency. > > Skene's has an excellent nomograph for determining prop diameter and > pitch. You might be surprised to find that according to the nomograph > 30HP at 1000RPM = ~ 21" diameter 2 blade propeller. With proper tip > clearance(12% of diamemter) this equals an opening of ~ 26". > > In an earlier post Brent gave a simple calculation for pitch. Max > speed from above example 7.34 knots. One nautical mile equals 6020 > feet. 7.34 X 6020 = 44187 feet per hour. Or 44187 / 60 (min) = 736 > feet travelled per minute. 736 FPM(8832 inches per minute) / 1000RPM > (max prop speed) = 8.8" pitch 8.8" X 2(for 50% propeller slip) = ~ > 18" pitch. Skene's nomograph shows about 21" pitch. The lesser pitch > of 18" would probably be recommended in order to allow the engine to > easily delvelop full RPM. > > That gives about a 21" diameter and about 18" pitch 2 blade > propeller. That is a large prop and a 30HP engine probably produces > more power than can be effectively used or ever needed purely for > moving the boat. Of course many people will also have big alternators > and/or a water maker pump and/or other devices running from the > engine so a certain amount of power in reserve is a good thing. > > From personal experience I know that my last boat(about the same size > as Brent's 31) had a 16HP 2cyl Yanmar diesel with a 3.25:1 reduction > gear. It turned a 16" diameter X 10" pitch Martec folding prop. At > about 3,000RPM this would push the boat straight into 25 knot > tradewinds and 6'-8' seas at over 5knots which was really to fast for > comfort but doable for a short distance. > > Remember one of the worst things to do to a diesel engine is to run > it underloaded or overloaded. Many of the new small higher speed > diesels will run at 1,500 to 2,000 RPM for thier entire useful lives > if properlly loaded. > > Overpowering your boat is not necessary and may be detrimental to the > life of the engine and it costs you more to buy the engine, maintain > it and pay for the fuel. Of course used or rebuilt engines that are > slightly oversized and cheap are hard to turn down. > > Take care, > Fred | 6023|6023|2004-10-27 23:00:06|seeratlas|42 Schooner Interior|Whelp, its show and tell time:) I've just put up the first draft (well second actually:) of the prototype interior for my 42 Schooner. For those that missed it, I've also sent up a 'black hull' version for comparison. Anyway, I'll quickly run through what you see in the interior. From the bow, forward head, nothing fancy, sit down shower type. That white thing is the stainless ladder up the bulkhead thru the escape hatch. Also handy for tossing wet stuff you need to get off the deck without worrying about making a mess below :) to port that small square is for a mini stainless washer/drier I found. :) Not exactly minimalist but hey, I like clean clothes once in a while too:) and with the watermaker on board, why not? That other white area is a sail locker, for stowing all things sail like, extra material, awnings, all that stuff. To starboard is a cupboard kind of thing full of drawers and bins for stowing all those things that need to be stowed where you can find em. aft of that is a 4.5 ft workbench where I can work on equipt (fix the washer/drier for instance LOL). I can also sew there and repair sails, awnings, covers what have you. Places for tools and parts. To starboard is the guest cabin. Note the gray fold down desk that folds from the bulkhead which will have a mirror on it. That small circle is the diesel/solidfuel/wood stove of a design I havn't worked out yet. The dinette is cozy 5 ft across bout little over six diagonally for emergency sleeping :) its raised so when you're sitting there you're looking out the windows. lots of storage with drawers underneath and bins under the cushions. Across is the captains station. the chair swivels and I can have instant access to everything. The galley is in the PH and that round thing is a swing out seat for my mother who loves to cook but gets tired standing. She hates being down in the 'galley hole' so this is my solution. The freezer/refrig is there center and DEEP and extremely well insulated. The drains are reached from a small hatch in the aft head way down below. back to starboard that white area in front of the hanging lockers is a storage area for all the stuff you need handy to the main hatch. On top will be a screen for the computer/vid/dvd stuff. Note everyone in the PH can see it at the same time. My brother shoots videos so he'll be all set and few dvd's never hurt. down and aft is the master cabin. I'll have to put up a diagram of the cockpit so you can understand how to crawl around back there :) (j/k) there is almost standing headroom for me heheh. Another folding table and a small place to lounge and read next to the berth. That curved thing in the head is the shower/tub. doubles as a hot tub when at the dock or when the watermaker is really rocking :) Just BARELY big enough for two very friendly people LOL. All the rest of the white back there is serious storage. accessible from deck and thru a small 'smell proof' emergency hatch in the aft cabin. Ok, that's pretty much it :) The stairs are curved to deal with the Mainmast which is right up against the back of the PH in the center so the hatch is offset to one side. For those inquiring minds the engine is under the floor just forward of the stairs. All the flooring will be insulated to beat hell and soundproofed best I can make it, but with a few turns of the latches, most of it will come up so I have full access to the machinery and lots of room to work. By the way, I'm going to try venting the engine (which uses a lot of air remember) under the cabin sole forward through the bilge and up to the forward head. When the engine is running therefore, there will hopefully be a circular airflow serving to dryout the forward head and circulate the air in the cabin and bilges. As for sea berths, well, a net over the aft berth and a leeboard and cloth on the guest accomodations should do it. Hard to fall out of those contained areas, especially when restrained. Thanks for any comments :) sincerely, seer| 6024|5952|2004-10-28 03:37:49|sae140|Re: Re colored sails longgevity|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, ".." wrote: > .... but we have not seen the sun much this year, it has > rained most of the summer. > We have not had to worry about the sun on the backs of our necks > when welding have we Colin! > > Geoff > Cheshire > England I remember summer - this year it was on June 21st, between 2 and 4 pm. Colin (Hailing from Boston, on England's exotic east coast - gateway to the fashionable North Sea riviera, where luxury speedboats play between the gas platforms, and bikini-clad models jossle for media attention amongst the oil rigs.) Still, the future's bright - we're about to add a couple of giant wind-farms to the rigs and platforms - that should really bring in the tourists !| 6025|5952|2004-10-28 04:45:12|seeratlas|Re: Sunny Boston?|LOL, I lived in Boston for 3 years, heheh anything I ever saw in a bikini I wish I handn't. I would have gone sailing more but pea soup fog was never my thing, and I can even remember skiing over the tops of cars down Mass Ave. :) Funny tho I always thought the big tourist attraction would be the world's most expensive hole in the ground:) seer --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "sae140" wrote: > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, ".." wrote: > > .... but we have not seen the sun much this year, it has > > rained most of the summer. > > We have not had to worry about the sun on the backs of our necks > > when welding have we Colin! > > > > Geoff > > Cheshire > > England > > I remember summer - this year it was on June 21st, between 2 and 4 pm. > Colin > (Hailing from Boston, on England's exotic east coast - gateway to the > fashionable North Sea riviera, where luxury speedboats play between > the gas platforms, and bikini-clad models jossle for media attention > amongst the oil rigs.) > > Still, the future's bright - we're about to add a couple of giant > wind-farms to the rigs and platforms - that should really bring in > the tourists ! | 6027|5978|2004-10-28 07:07:26|T.H. & V.D. Cain|Re: transmissions|For those looking for a damper plate to drive the transmission, have a look at: http://www.pyiinc.com I have edited-out the non-relevant bits from Scott's mail reply in 2002 Terry Thanks for your interest in the R&D Damper Plates. There are three components to it - the spline code, element (torque capacity) and the back plate dimensions. 1. The Hurth 150 utilizes a common 10-tooth spline. 2. Our small 100 ft lbs element will be more than sufficient. 3. The back plate is that part that bolts to the flywheel. I have many cross references for common applications (Yanmar, Cummins, John Deere, etc...) but not for the VW. We need the dimensions for existing back plate: --Outside Diameter --Number of bolts holes --Diameter of holes --Diameter of hole pattern (measured two holes directly across from each other, center to center.) With this last information, I can accurately spec the correct damper plate for you. Regardless, it should retail for about $180 US plus shipping. Thanks for the opportunity to earn you business. Sincerely, Scott C. Jeffers, PYI INC. 12532 Beverly Park Road Lynnwood, WA. 98037 425-355-3669 425-355-3661 - Fax 800-523-7558 http://www.pyiinc.com P.D.S.- Power Delivery Systems from PYI Inc. Python-Drive constant velocity (C.V.) products, R&D Drivetrain Components, PSS Shaft Seals, Caravel Shaft Bearings, Max-Prop Feathering Propeller. -----Original Message----- From: johnkupris@... [mailto:johnkupris@...] Sent: Wednesday, 27 October 2004 7:59 To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [origamiboats] Re: transmissions Dumd question # 101... Boats and harbors lists some engines and trans. Sometimes they describe trans as #3 or #4 or #5. Are those numbers related to what engines they fit or what? How does somebody match a trans and a engine? John [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links| 6028|5877|2004-10-28 07:51:30|uzpbtmez|Important Letter for origamiboats Members|Opportunities such as this do not occur every day. We will refinance your home at a better interest rate. We save people time and money, with our outstanding loan approval rate. http://grealus.com/azvhu Please copy and paste the above link into your web browser. Stop and take thirty seconds to profit from the lowest interest rates ever! http://grealus.com/ajrhu This email was sent because you joined our group. If you do not wish to recieve any emails, unsubscribe. by sending a mail here origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com| 6030|6021|2004-10-28 12:49:35|Gordon Schnell|Re: Engine size and calculations|Thanks for that, Fred. I just reran the calculations (that I did about 2.5 yrs. ago), and guess what, pitch for my boat should be 15.5". I had spec'd. 16". In all truth, I had forgotten just how I originally calculated it, but I believe it was based on Skene's book. As you point out, a used engine makes the extra HP hard to turn down. I originally chose the VW engine based on Pathfinder yachts out of California. They used the naturally aspirated 1.5L - 1.6L for years. I was aboard one and was amazed at how quiet and smooth it was. Gord [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]| 6031|6031|2004-10-28 12:53:25|seeratlas|Re: Engines engines engines & Hoops' coments|You'd have to find some way to lock the slip joint or you'd trash the rudder the second you threw it into reverse wouldn't you? seer --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, SHANE ROTHWELL wrote: > Hoop, > > Having put together a drive shaft assembly from a 5 > tonn truck for my 13 tonner using a plumbers block for > end load and of course a spline within a spline, I > figure you may be onto something re the 2 bladed prop > 'fitting' into the aft end of the keel to reduce drag. > > As far as hydrodynamics of it all, I'm not the right > guy to determine the cost in terms of drag but this > might pay off big time. Moveing of the shaft fore & > aft should be pretty straight forward though there may > be issues with the cutlass bearing. > > Re: 1st posting. As you have stood up to be counted > you have to either learn to duck or close your eyes > when the gash bucket is heaved at your head. No > exeptions. > > Cheers, > SR > > ______________________________________________________________________ > Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca | 6032|6032|2004-10-28 13:05:13|seeratlas|Uploaded Engines Article. good read|I found a 2002 Cruising World article on engines 'around 50 hp' that is worth reading. I put it in my folder in the files section, "Seer's 42 Schooner". The file name is "CWenginejsp.htm" Very much on topic and I was very interested in the Kubota tractor engine mention. Kubota has a good reputation round here for their small tractor motors. seer| 6033|6032|2004-10-28 13:41:39|Carl Nostrand|Re: Uploaded Engines Article. good read|nannidiesel.com (KUBOTA saildrive's) looks like a very clean and strong package. I'm sure that you could convert a tractor engine to a marine engine as well if you could find one. I've been looking around Alaska with no luck. Carl On Oct 28, 2004, at 9:04 AM, seeratlas wrote: > > > I found a 2002 Cruising World article on engines 'around 50 hp' that > is worth reading. > > I put it in my folder in the files section, "Seer's 42 Schooner". > The file name is "CWenginejsp.htm" > > Very much on topic and I was very interested in the Kubota tractor > engine mention. Kubota has a good reputation round here for their > small tractor motors. > > seer > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > | 6034|6031|2004-10-28 14:40:17|khooper_fboats|Retractable propshaft, a loopy idea|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "seeratlas" wrote: > > You'd have to find some way to lock the slip joint or you'd trash the > rudder the second you threw it into reverse wouldn't you? It wouldn't be hard to lock it extended or retracted using a simple yoke. In my mind perhaps we don't quite touch the skeg when retracted but we're very close to it. It's not a carport, it's just a driveway. =^)If somebody screwed up and engaged the prop while it was retracted maybe it would set up a helluva vibration but I doubt it would hurt anything. We're far from the rudder this whole time. Am I nuts? --Hoop| 6035|6031|2004-10-28 14:42:18|fenixrises|Re: Engines engines engines & Hoops' coments|Hi all, Kubotas from what I hear have a very good reputation. My niece's husband has a couple of big rig trucks with refer units. He told me the truck refers are usually powered by Yanmars, Kubotas and Isuzus. Average life about 15,000 hours. Normally these engines run just above idle and once in a while up to ~ 1,500 - ~ 1,600 RPM. The Yanmars run bigger compressors and generally are not as economical fuel wise as the Kubotas. Didn't say anything about Isuzus though they seem to have a good rep. Parts for Kubotas seem to be available worldwide and can be gotten from industrial motor suppliers. This probably would be a better choice because marine converstion companies seem to think we yachties are all millionaires. He told me it is possible to get a used motor for around $500USD from a wrecked trailor and sometimes the motors are very recently re-built therefore better than new. I do not know about this first hand as I have never personally checked it out. I also do not know if one of these engines would be suitable for marine use. One possible problem is that the oilpan might be too shallow. A water cooled exhaust manifold would probably be desirable. Motor mounts would have to be fabricated as well. From what he told me these are usually three cylinder engines so are probably around 25HP. From what I have heard the refer units on railroad cars are larger engines often 4 cyl Mecedes diesels. Others have said that they are not suitable for marine conversion because the injector pumps aren't set up right and they have shallow oilpans. I do not know. If you look under this classification on E-Bay you will often find used industrial Kubotas, Yanmars and others. http://search.ebay.com/diesel_Agriculture_W0QQsacategoryZ11748QQsoreco rdstoskipZ0QQsosortpropertyZ2 Take care, Fred SHANE ROTHWELL wrote: > Hoop, > > Having put together a drive shaft assembly from a 5 > tonn truck for my 13 tonner using a plumbers block for > end load and of course a spline within a spline, I > figure you may be onto something re the 2 bladed prop > 'fitting' into the aft end of the keel to reduce drag. > > As far as hydrodynamics of it all, I'm not the right > guy to determine the cost in terms of drag but this > might pay off big time. Moveing of the shaft fore & > aft should be pretty straight forward though there may > be issues with the cutlass bearing. > > Re: 1st posting. As you have stood up to be counted > you have to either learn to duck or close your eyes > when the gash bucket is heaved at your head. No > exeptions. > > Cheers, > SR > > ______________________________________________________________________ > Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca | 6036|5953|2004-10-28 14:52:57|evanmoonjunk|Re: Deck weld distortion|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "brentswain38" wrote: > > Several people have been fully welding the underside of the decks on > my boats causing severe oilcanning on the topsides. > If you weld a piece of 1/8th plate to 3/16th using 1/8th inch > 7024, and try to break the weld, it's impossible to break it at the > weld as the weld metal is considerably thicker than the deck plate. > The deck plate will break an eighth of a inch away from the weld > every time. Thus fully welding the underside of the decks serves no > usefull purpose whatever, and only causes distortion in the topsides. > Brent I checked Scotts boat(which is being launched on friday) after Brent told me about this and there was none of the distortion mentioned. This boat was fully welded on deck with 1/8 7018 and fully welded underneath the deck with 1/8 6011. There is a concern that moisture can be trapped in this joint(if not welded) under the deck if it is not painted right away. One of the problems that can happen is that when the plate is handled at the processers they use two large clamps along the edge of the large hull plates about a third of the way in from each end. The whole weight of the plate is hung on these clamps, and that will leave a double kink about 6" long at each clamp location. I always try to work it as much as possible, but it will still show a bit right along the deck to hull joint. This could be mistaken for weld distortion sometimes....Evan| 6037|6031|2004-10-29 02:58:08|zulutrading|Re: Engines engines engines & Hoops' coments|> Having put together a drive shaft assembly from a 5 > tonn truck for my 13 tonner using a plumbers block for > end load and of course a spline within a spline, I > figure you may be onto something re the 2 bladed prop > 'fitting' into the aft end of the keel to reduce drag. Shane, can you detail your shaft setup please? How has this worked for you? Pictures? Thanks. Paul L| 6038|5953|2004-10-29 10:58:26|edward_stoneuk|Re: Deck weld distortion|Evan, Mine hasn't oilcaned; more of a pulling in on the hull sides above and below the deck line and a visible weld line. Trying to grind these flat can, if not done very carefully, produce more of a disfigurement than leaving them. One can see similar weld marks in some of the forum photos. I have a bit of distortion where I joined two sheets together to form the hull side as I couldn't get long enough sheets. I haven't decided whether to leave it, use filler or cut out and replace, which might give me the same problem. Regards, Ted| 6039|5953|2004-10-29 11:10:19|edward_stoneuk|Re: Deck weld distortion|I got some distortion when lifting the long 1/8th sheet for the cabin top using a plate clamp and a front end loader. The sheet flapped around like a manta ray. We lay it back down and tacked a 2" angle on the edge and it was OK to lift then. When laying it on the cabin top I managed to offset it enough to be able to cut the distorted bit off. Regards, Ted| 6040|5953|2004-10-29 20:58:01|blueiceicle|Re: Deck weld distortion|> I got some distortion when lifting the long 1/8th sheet for the > cabin top using a plate clamp and a front end loader. The sheet > flapped around like a manta ray. We lay it back down and tacked a > 2" angle on the edge and it was OK to lift then. When laying it on > the cabin top I managed to offset it enough to be able to cut the > distorted bit off. > Regards, > Ted rIf your lifting long plate via. plate clamp way. you should probaly use two clamps properly spaced ( 1/3 ) the lenght for each clamp to get no distortion. if you dont have plate clamps use steel C clamps and tack em to the plate. Forks always but a good bow in plate when you lift them i find. If you use forks a couple angles tacked on both ends of the plate work pretty good, depending on the length. We have bent 3x3 angle 10ft lengths picking up 28ft 3/16 7g plate at work. I put 12 sheets of 22' 3/16 7g plate on the plasma table at work this week using just forks with only a 1/2 bow in the plate overall. No problem cause it was all being rolled, but big bows are a pain to cut on the table i work on. its 26yrs old! and no improvements made to date. anyhow plate clamps are the best i find. and move slowly maybe rig up a tie line to one end to keep the plate from swinging to much if you still have problems. On a side note, im planning to build a 28ft, question is $ savings on using 12g plate for the decks and cabin versus 10g. versus overall strength? and using 3/16 for the hull and 10g for decks and cabins? any thoughts? Jesse Jesse| 6041|6041|2004-10-29 21:06:06|blueiceicle|Determining Engine Usability|Well I was out side at work for a bit today and couldnt help but wonder what was powering the diesl generated flood lights. So i took a peek, and there was a sweet looking little Kubota. What im wondering is would such a motor be worth putting in a 28ft? The diesel in question is a 3cyl, now im not sure if generator motors are geared for high revs or for low revs driving a bigger generator? The guys at work said this thing will run for quite some time on one tank of gas. sound good so far. The main thing is there a ratio on displacement versus horse power or torque to determine what is needed for a suitable boat motor? your thoughts would be greatly appreciated Thanks Jesse| 6042|6041|2004-10-30 00:25:16|Michael Casling|Re: Determining Engine Usability|Motors for generating run at a multiple of 60 or they have a very smart computer like the new Honda generators. If the engine has enough torque then 1800 revs is common. My noisy B&S runs at 3600. Michael ----- Original Message ----- From: blueiceicle To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, October 29, 2004 6:06 PM Subject: [origamiboats] Determining Engine Usability Well I was out side at work for a bit today and couldnt help but wonder what was powering the diesl generated flood lights. So i took a peek, and there was a sweet looking little Kubota. What im wondering is would such a motor be worth putting in a 28ft? The diesel in question is a 3cyl, now im not sure if generator motors are geared for high revs or for low revs driving a bigger generator? The guys at work said this thing will run for quite some time on one tank of gas. sound good so far. The main thing is there a ratio on displacement versus horse power or torque to determine what is needed for a suitable boat motor? your thoughts would be greatly appreciated Thanks Jesse To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links a.. To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/ b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 6044|6044|2004-10-30 21:35:36|Henri Naths|Fw: [origamiboats] Re: Steel Mast's 26-28ft Swains|I would however be concerned about annealing the tubing with the heat and loosing the work hardening that it was produced with. Gary: Fyi, according to webster,-- anneal; .1. To subject (glass or metal) to a process of heating and slow cooling to reduce brittleness 2. to strengthened or harden, to become strengthened or hardened. Annealing is a process of making some special steels workable -useable.. eg some exotic metals are cooled at a rate of one degree per hr, or annealed. H. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links a.. To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/ b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]| 6045|6045|2004-10-30 21:43:02|Henri Naths|Fw: [origamiboats] Auto Air Conditioning for boats?|Seer; Back In the early eighties I had started a farming, retail wholesale and trucking business for fruit and produce.. In my first truck I rigged a refrigeration unit using used automotive air conditioning equipment. It worked great. The only problem would be the pumps don't have a lube sump so you have to keep all of your hoses and evaporators above the pump. That should not be a problem in a boat along as you do not have low points where the oil can collect. H. ----- Original Message ----- From: seeratlas To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Sent: 21 October, 2004 8:22 AM Subject: [origamiboats] Auto Air Conditioning for boats? I was poking around the junkyard the other day and began to wonder about this. Brent has already noted in a post here that a friend of his used a truck heating unit to good effect in a boat, And I began to wonder why the whole heating/AC unit couldn't be adapted from a car/truck to a boat? We're talking about the compressor which should be no big deal to bracket mount to the engine (and/or to a 110 v motor for dockside air), the evaporator, etc. which should be easy to remote mount somewhere it can get cooler air. The fans are all 12 volt, etc. sooooo... Has anyone come across any articles or know of someone who's done some work along this line? The only reason I bring this up is that I've been in the Sea of Cortez when it was SOOO hot it was almost impossible to move, and nearly impossible to sleep. The ability to knock the cabin temp down 10 or 15 degrees might be worth the effort. Drying the air would just be gravy. seer To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links a.. To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/ b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 6046|5872|2004-10-30 21:52:52|Henri Naths|Re: windlass/winch|If you do use propane tanks, rig them upside-down so the valve is at the bottom, that way the water can not collect in the them. H. ----- Original Message ----- From: denis buggy To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Sent: 21 October, 2004 1:40 PM Subject: Re: [origamiboats] Re: windlass/winch dear Fred take care you should not use a propane cyl for this purpose it cannot be drained nor does it have a inspection hatch . if you must , rig up some clutched drive from a pulley to a old but well made compressor , ingersoll rand or similar with the old 6 mm thick tank not the new Italian 3mm tank. you can test an entire tanks thickness/condition with a little electric gadget in 30 seconds as do insurance engineers here . you will not drive a 3.5 horse single phase motor on your boat and to generate enough energy to build air in a 300 litre tank to run a inch drive gun for a few minutes will need a lot more than 7 cfm per minute and will need to be oiled by an oiler at sea as on land , an impact wrench is not an air motor however similar and will not deliver you power" now " when you may need it will seem a etiternity has passed before you will be ready to make noise and rattle a chain in mad bursts however hydraulics are the chosen means by which most of the world pulls rope at sea for a lot of good reasons regards denims ----- Original Message ----- From: fenixrises To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2004 7:51 PM Subject: [origamiboats] Re: windlass/winch Hi all, Another possibility to this costly problem. While a hydrolic system is strong and relativly trouble free it can be expensive. Used pumps and slave motors are available but in the small sizes for this application it maybe better using new. Then there is the need for high pressure lines and a control valve plus fittings. All costly. One alternative I have thought about is using compressed air. Small engine driven air compressors are inexpensive and with the proper equipment can do double duty for a hooka(sort of like scuba) setup. My idea is to use a heavy duty air wrench to drive the windlass spool through a chain and sprocket reduction. Use the air wrench in place of the hydrolic slave motor. An added advantage is the ability to easily remove the air wrench and stow it below. Since the pressures involved here are much less than with hydrolic fluid, fittings and lines are cheaper and available almost everywhere. A main line from engine area to foredeck area could effectivly be 3/4" pipe, no return line is needed. Heavy duty air wrenches are readily available from discount tool suppliers for about $150 USD, from garage sales much less. And you can even use it in its designed capacity, as an air wrench. A 7 cubic foot per minute, 120 lb per square inch compressor is about $200 USD, again used may be much cheaper. A used 5gal propane tank would make a suitable air vessel and would be portable, not sure if this is "legal". Take care, Fred "Bill Jaine" wrote: > In my endless quest for a cheap (read affordable) windlass. > > > > Does anyone know any reason why I couldn't use a vehicle recovery winch with > wire instead of chain for day to day anchoring. > > > > I know that in a blow I would have to put down the main anchor (Bruce 33, > 100 feet of 3/8 BBB chain and 300 feet of 1" nylon). > > > > The local farm supply (Princess Auto) has on sale for $444 Canadian ($300 > US) , an 8000 lb pull 12V winch with 95 feet of 5/16 steel cable and remote > switch, same as on front of Jeeps etc. If it travels on the front of > vehicles then it has to be pretty waterproof doesn't it? > > > > I thought that if I was to mount that back about 7 feet from the anchor > roller, I could put 7 feet of chain on the end of the wire, attach that to > the anchor and have an anchoring system that's reasonably efficient in day > to day weather, pulling up the Bruce and chain and rode just about kills me > these days! > > > > > > Bill > > Port Hope. Canada > > > > > > > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.778 / Virus Database: 525 - Release Date: 15/10/2004 > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links a.. To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/ b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links a.. To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/ b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 6047|5852|2004-10-30 21:55:28|Gary H. Lucas|Re: Steel Mast's 26-28ft Swains|Henri, It appears that the term annealing has several connotations. When one hardens a cutting tool for instance it may get so hard that it is brittle. Annealing reduces the hardness somewhat but increases the toughness a lot which is desirable. In the case of working tubing to size the material work hardens, and can become too brittle for further working without cracking. So the tube gets annealed, to reduce the hardness and make it more ductile so it can be worked further. This may be for further rolling or drawing to a smaller size. In some cases the work to be performed later is bending and coiling where you don't want cracking. If you don't need these additional processes the tubing is likely to be left work hardened. Of course it would be pretty useless if it came to you in an already brittle state. So I would expect that tubing you bought would be just fine to bend or flatten to the small degree required for a mast. Trying to uniformly heat a long mast to a temperature that would produce uniform annealing would be quite difficult using say a torch. A mast of non-uniform hardness along its length would possibly experience non-uniform bedding stresses, and might fail. Which is I warned against the idea. Gary H. Lucas ----- Original Message ----- From: "Henri Naths" To: Sent: Saturday, October 30, 2004 9:35 PM Subject: Fw: [origamiboats] Re: Steel Mast's 26-28ft Swains > > > I would however be concerned about annealing the tubing with the > heat and loosing the work hardening that it was produced with. > > > Gary: > Fyi, according to webster,-- anneal; .1. To subject (glass or metal) to a process of heating and slow cooling to reduce brittleness 2. to strengthened or harden, to become strengthened or hardened. > Annealing is a process of making some special steels workable -useable.. eg some exotic metals are cooled at a rate of one degree per hr, or annealed. > H. > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > Yahoo! Groups Links > > a.. To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/ > > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > | 6048|5918|2004-10-30 21:58:59|Henri Naths|Re: Portable Oxy/Acetaline (sp?) rigs|I know from the old timers they use to make their own acetylene from charcoal and ???? ....Acetylene is critical at 15ps, much like nitro- glycerin .....one wrong move!!!!.. H. ----- Original Message ----- From: Carl Di Stefano To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Sent: 21 October, 2004 6:26 PM Subject: Re: [origamiboats] Portable Oxy/Acetaline (sp?) rigs Get over it, that's the way it works... ----- Original Message ----- From: seeratlas To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2004 4:33 PM Subject: [origamiboats] Portable Oxy/Acetaline (sp?) rigs Well, my luck is going pretty well. Stepfather gave me brand new portable Oxy rig. It's one of those 300.00 rigs with the two small tanks in a holder. Anyway, I go down to the local gas place to get em filled up so I can play with it and son of a gun if he doesn't want me to swap my brand new tanks with some pieces of junk he has LOL. He assures me this is std practice now where almost nobody fills tanks at their location, everything is 'swap' LOL. Welll, given the price to 'swap' and the prospect of losing my brand new tanks, I was wondering if its possible to rig up some transfer hoses that would let me fill the little tanks off a pair of the big rental tanks. I'm wondering if this can be done safely? thanx in advance. seer To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links a.. To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/ b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links a.. To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/ b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 6049|6045|2004-10-31 01:59:24|seeratlas|Re: Fw: [origamiboats] Auto Air Conditioning for boats?|Thanks for the info :) I'll have to look into this further :) seer --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Henri Naths" wrote: > > > > Seer; > Back In the early eighties I had started a farming, retail wholesale and trucking business for fruit and produce.. In my first truck I rigged a refrigeration unit using used automotive air conditioning equipment. It worked great. The only problem would be the pumps don't have a lube sump so you have to keep all of your hoses and evaporators above the pump. That should not be a problem in a boat along as you do not have low points where the oil can collect. > H. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: seeratlas > To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > Sent: 21 October, 2004 8:22 AM > Subject: [origamiboats] Auto Air Conditioning for boats? > > > > I was poking around the junkyard the other day and began to wonder > about this. Brent has already noted in a post here that a friend of > his used a truck heating unit to good effect in a boat, And I began to > wonder why the whole heating/AC unit couldn't be adapted from a > car/truck to a boat? > > We're talking about the compressor which should be no big deal to > bracket mount to the engine (and/or to a 110 v motor for dockside > air), the evaporator, etc. which should be easy to remote mount > somewhere it can get cooler air. The fans are all 12 volt, etc. sooooo... > > Has anyone come across any articles or know of someone who's done some > work along this line? The only reason I bring this up is that I've > been in the Sea of Cortez when it was SOOO hot it was almost > impossible to move, and nearly impossible to sleep. The ability to > knock the cabin temp down 10 or 15 degrees might be worth the effort. > Drying the air would just be gravy. > > seer > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ADVERTISEMENT > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Yahoo! Groups Links > > a.. To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/ > > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 6051|5918|2004-10-31 06:08:26|edward_stoneuk|Re: Portable Oxy/Acetaline (sp?) rigs|Henri, Acetylene (carbide)lamps that were fitted to old time automobiles and bikes used calcium carbide and water to produce acetylene. Water was allowed to drip onto lumps of calcium carbide at a controlled rate to produce acetylene. The more the drip rate of water the more acetylene was produced and the pressure increased and the light was brighter. On the farm, when I was a lad, we had a bird scarer that used the same principal. Water was allowed at a controlled rate to drip onto calcium carbide thus producing acetylene. When the acetylene had built up a sufficient pressure it flipped a spark igniter which caused the acetylene to explode with a bang. The period between bangs could be adjusted by adjusting the water drip rate. From Google: "Calcium carbonate (limestone) and coal are the principal raw materials for acetylene manufacture. The calcium carbonate is first converted into calcium oxide and the coal into coke, and then the two are reacted with each other to form calcium carbide. Calcium carbide and water are then reacted by several methods to produce acetylene" Sustitute carbon for coal(coke) and you have what your old timers used Henri. I would be very wary to share any boat let alone a steel boat with acetylene; or propane for that matter. We have bought a kerosene cooker and heater for ours. The same goes for compressed air in an old propane cylinder. Given that it is operating in salt air one would expect it to rust out from the inside. When it fails at say 100 psi it will kill or maim whoever is nearby. Hydraulic power is much safer as the fluid is not compressed and if the tank fails the mess is just oil not blood and flesh. Regards, Ted| 6052|5918|2004-10-31 06:46:51|denis buggy|Re: Portable Oxy/Acetaline (sp?) rigs|well said ted . and tanks are tested to destruction hydraulically as an exploding tank would blow the walls of the factory out if filled with air . denis ----- Original Message ----- From: edward_stoneuk To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, October 31, 2004 11:08 AM Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Portable Oxy/Acetaline (sp?) rigs Henri, Acetylene (carbide)lamps that were fitted to old time automobiles and bikes used calcium carbide and water to produce acetylene. Water was allowed to drip onto lumps of calcium carbide at a controlled rate to produce acetylene. The more the drip rate of water the more acetylene was produced and the pressure increased and the light was brighter. On the farm, when I was a lad, we had a bird scarer that used the same principal. Water was allowed at a controlled rate to drip onto calcium carbide thus producing acetylene. When the acetylene had built up a sufficient pressure it flipped a spark igniter which caused the acetylene to explode with a bang. The period between bangs could be adjusted by adjusting the water drip rate. From Google: "Calcium carbonate (limestone) and coal are the principal raw materials for acetylene manufacture. The calcium carbonate is first converted into calcium oxide and the coal into coke, and then the two are reacted with each other to form calcium carbide. Calcium carbide and water are then reacted by several methods to produce acetylene" Sustitute carbon for coal(coke) and you have what your old timers used Henri. I would be very wary to share any boat let alone a steel boat with acetylene; or propane for that matter. We have bought a kerosene cooker and heater for ours. The same goes for compressed air in an old propane cylinder. Given that it is operating in salt air one would expect it to rust out from the inside. When it fails at say 100 psi it will kill or maim whoever is nearby. Hydraulic power is much safer as the fluid is not compressed and if the tank fails the mess is just oil not blood and flesh. Regards, Ted To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links a.. To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/ b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 6053|6041|2004-10-31 11:30:15|fenixrises|Re: Determining Engine Usability|Hi, If you can get the model number from the engine, go here and the table will tell you the engine size and HP. http://www.kubotaengine.com/kubotaperformance.htm Generally Kubota's model number equals the displacement. So a model 905 = 905 cubic centimeters disp. almost 1 litre. One liter of displacement gives about 20HP in many diesel engines. Fred "blueiceicle" wrote: > > Well I was out side at work for a bit today and couldnt help but > wonder what was powering the diesl generated flood lights. So i took > a peek, and there was a sweet looking little Kubota. What im > wondering is would such a motor be worth putting in a 28ft? > > The diesel in question is a 3cyl, now im not sure if generator motors > are geared for high revs or for low revs driving a bigger generator? > > The guys at work said this thing will run for quite some time on one > tank of gas. sound good so far. The main thing is there a ratio on > displacement versus horse power or torque to determine what is needed > for a suitable boat motor? > > your thoughts would be greatly appreciated > > Thanks Jesse | 6054|6054|2004-10-31 12:06:49|rockrothwell|Engines engines engines & hoops comments|Hi Paul, I posted some months ago detailing the system but havn't spent the time to figure out how to search the archives but will give you a thumbnail sketch. Sorry, no photo's. It was an exellent system, had no problems & very easy to install as it eliminated a lot of bullshit & fiddle in putting in the donk, diddnt have to fiddle with EXACT allignment as it does it all for you & you can then mount the donk dead level where the fwd main bearings are not goig to be starved for oil... I had a Norfolk '43 (Roberts design), bout 13 tonn & put in a Perkins 4.108 (commonly used in light trucks) so I just got a driveshaft out of a 5 tonn truck figuring that would be overkill (only real screwup was I put it into a glass boat........sucker!) Basically you take a drive shaft with the 2 universal joints on it (one on each end) and the spline within a spline & you fabricate a plate to bolt onto the business end of the gearbox. you then fab up a flange to bolt to the end of the prop shaft you then go out and buy a plumbers block which is just a bearing that will take end load cuz universal joints will not take and load. End load is the force pushing/pulling on the end of the shaft = in fwd gear the propshaft wants to push itself into the hull, reverse it wants to pull out..... this will fit around your prop shaft & attaches with grub screws. Secure the plumbers block to the hull & there are mounts you buy that the plumbers block fits into so it's easy (i figured 3 wee grubscrews alone was innadequate so fab'd up 2 other pieces out of a bit of pipe that slid over the propshaft with 3 more grub screws in each so there was no way it was going to move fore or aft with one of these collars either side of the plumbers block then you cut the driveshaft to the length you need, usually shortening it, and weld it up (be sure that you don't weld it up lopsided!) & then put the whole thing together with the spline w/in a spline on the fwd end. Therefore, from aft to fwd you have: - plumbers block to fit over prop shaft w/ sleeves either side of it to take up force of end load - prop shaft & flange to bolt to universal jernt - universal joint - drive shaft cut to length - fwd universal joint - spline within a spline - flange on fwd end of spline w/in a spline to bolt to aft end of gear box The mounting of this is EXACTLT the same as the driveshaft arrangement on a truck, some trucks have 2 drive shafts as the distance from the donk to the drive wheels is too long & being a truck on the road it's bouncing around & fore & aft movement between the donk & the frame/drive wheels (thus the spline w/in a spline), the only differance is the addition of the plumbers block to take end load. This was explained to me as being a "hard drive" style of mounting the drivetrain and if you want it to last you should soft mount the donk on flexible mounts. basically if you softmount the donk you should hard mount the drivetrain, if you softmount the drivetrain you should hardmount the donk. This arrangement completely negates the need to exactly allign the propshaft, drivetrain, etc with the gearbox/donk (needless complication & fiddly diddldy nonesense) & if you wanted you could mount your donk athwartships from the deckhead by adding more driveshafts w/universal joints. Basically it gives u the freedom to mount the donk anywhere that works for you - even if that is directly under the companionway step as is very common 1 last thing. you have greese nipples on plumbers block, universals, spline within a spline, make sure they are allthe same size for simplicity (throughout the whole boat!) and use them religiously. Hope this helps Shane P.S. to make this system retractable as disgussed with a 2 bladed prop fitting into the aft end of the skeg you would have to be able to move the plumbers block for & aft, therefore would have to have a sliding mount for it........it'd take a bit of work but the spline within a spline would look after all other considerations as you would only need to move a couple of inches. I also figure you might have to futz around & turn the propshaft whilst moving it 4 & aft to get it to slide in the cutlass bearing P.P.S. Has anyone figured out the shape needed on the trailing edge of the skeg in order to 'fit' a 2 bladed prop 'into' it to reduce drag or are we kidding ourselves here? For what it's worth, why not just have marks on the prop shaft that tell you exactly the allignment of the prop, line it up with the skeg & have a shaft break on it & enjoy sailing. No it would not be 100% effient but would be much better than a 3 bladed prop being drug through the water. There may be some simple modification of the training edge of the skeg to minimize the drag on the prop, but keeping it all as simple as possible & easy to fabricate..Wadda ya reckon? Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 06:57:35 -0000 From: "zulutrading" Subject: Re: Engines engines engines & Hoops' coments > Having put together a drive shaft assembly from a 5 > tonn truck for my 13 tonner using a plumbers block for > end load and of course a spline within a spline, I > figure you may be onto something re the 2 bladed prop > 'fitting' into the aft end of the keel to reduce drag. Shane, can you detail your shaft setup please? How has this worked for you? Pictures? Thanks. Paul L| 6055|6054|2004-10-31 14:15:23|seeratlas|Re: Engines engines engines & hoops comments|Your comment below was exactly what I was speaking about and the way I currently intend to go. With a stainless steel shaft, a staineless steel prop, and a stainless steel tube, I figure that's about as antigavlanic as I'm likely to get... Since I'm plannning on a shaft brake for pure sailing, I'm also thinking that there will come a time when i have an excess of wind..hehehe. At that point would be nice to be able to turn the shaft loose to freewheel (better than most drogues in slowing you down from the stern when you're running to save the old 'poop deck'... AND, with a suitable pulley to pulley arrangment, perhaps the freewheeling shaft would be so kind as to turn a geared up alternator to supply some power to the batteries for the lights, radios, nav's, radar..and autopilot. Even if it just slows the drain on the battery its making a major contribution. so, I'd need a tranny that allows freewheeling without lube problems, another low speed alternator with suitable diodes, and pulleys and belts, and that would be it. seer For what it's worth, why not > just have marks on the prop shaft that tell you exactly the > allignment of the prop, line it up with the skeg & have a shaft break > on it & enjoy sailing. No it would not be 100% effient but would be > much better than a 3 bladed prop being drug through the water. There > may be some simple modification of the training edge of the skeg to > minimize the drag on the prop, but keeping it all as simple as > possible & easy to fabricate..Wadda ya reckon? > > > > Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 06:57:35 -0000 > From: "zulutrading" > Subject: Re: Engines engines engines & Hoops' coments > > > > > Having put together a drive shaft assembly from a 5 > > tonn truck for my 13 tonner using a plumbers block for > > end load and of course a spline within a spline, I > > figure you may be onto something re the 2 bladed prop > > 'fitting' into the aft end of the keel to reduce drag. > > Shane, can you detail your shaft setup please? How has this worked for > you? Pictures? > > Thanks. Paul L | 6056|22|2004-10-31 14:55:32|origamiboats@yahoogroups.com|New file uploaded to origamiboats |Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the origamiboats group. File : /Seer's Swain 42 Schooner/M42interior3.JPG Uploaded by : seeratlas Description : Latest Interior Plan revision You can access this file at the URL: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/files/Seer%27s%20%20Swain%2042%20Schooner/M42interior3.JPG To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit: http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files Regards, seeratlas | 6057|6057|2004-10-31 15:01:57|seeratlas|Latest revised interior posted for comments|Hi all, I just placed interior revision 3 in my folder under files. a couple of words of explanation. First in the forepeak you now see the hydraulic winch to Brent's design, Second the sail locker w tiny washer/dryer has been relocated. The major revision here is in the stern where there are now entrances aft from both sides of the stairway which is angled to port. The cross hatch pattern you see is the floor grating which now extends to the bottom of the hathway ladder. this is on a lower level than the cabin sole in the PH. The purpose here is to provide for wet crew to come straight down the hatch, straight into the aft head, shuck their wet gear and get warm without making a watery mess of the entire PH. There will be provision for securing wet foul weather gear in the shower/tub of the aft head. The other mods of note are the split lazarette, the small area to starboard aft of the bunk is totally separated from the other stowage area to port. This first area is meant for the really wet, smelling, crummy gunky stuff you need to get stowed in a hurry and don't want to mess up all your other stuff stowed on the other side. Things like fouled anchor rode for the stern anchor, crab pots, lobster traps etc. The other area is kept open 'round the bend' so that overlength items can be shoveled in there. The galley has had its sinks relocated forward, the fridge/refer moved slightly outboard. There will be a flip up countertop to cover the open end giving more work space for serious cooking for a group. :) The guest cabin has been enlarged slightly and the bulkhead angles made easier for construction. That's about it. thanks for any comments. seer| 6058|6057|2004-10-31 17:28:20|edward_stoneuk|Re: Latest revised interior posted for comments|Seer, Is there a chart table? Regards, Ted| 6059|6057|2004-10-31 17:44:14|Mike|Re: Latest revised interior posted for comments|Seer: What are you using as a dimension for max. breadth? If your parameters fall within the tolerances for a Swain design, I find the interior layout to be quite attractive, but, just "eyeballing" your drawing, the beam seems substantially greater than Brent's. Am I just cross-eyed? Regards, Mike --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "seeratlas" wrote: > > Hi all, > I just placed interior revision 3 in my folder under files. > a couple of words of explanation. > > First in the forepeak you now see the hydraulic winch to Brent's design, > Second the sail locker w tiny washer/dryer has been relocated. > The major revision here is in the stern where there are now entrances > aft from both sides of the stairway which is angled to port. > The cross hatch pattern you see is the floor grating which now extends > to the bottom of the hathway ladder. this is on a lower level than the > cabin sole in the PH. The purpose here is to provide for wet crew to > come straight down the hatch, straight into the aft head, shuck their > wet gear and get warm without making a watery mess of the entire PH. > There will be provision for securing wet foul weather gear in the > shower/tub of the aft head. > > The other mods of note are the split lazarette, the small area to > starboard aft of the bunk is totally separated from the other stowage > area to port. This first area is meant for the really wet, smelling, > crummy gunky stuff you need to get stowed in a hurry and don't want to > mess up all your other stuff stowed on the other side. Things like > fouled anchor rode for the stern anchor, crab pots, lobster traps etc. > > The other area is kept open 'round the bend' so that overlength items > can be shoveled in there. > > The galley has had its sinks relocated forward, the fridge/refer moved > slightly outboard. There will be a flip up countertop to cover the > open end giving more work space for serious cooking for a group. :) > > The guest cabin has been enlarged slightly and the bulkhead angles > made easier for construction. > > That's about it. > thanks for any comments. > > seer | 6060|22|2004-10-31 17:44:55|Sailor|Re: New file uploaded to origamiboats|Tried to get into file; message was "The requested file or directory is not found on the server." Any ideas? ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Sunday, October 31, 2004 2:51 PM Subject: [origamiboats] New file uploaded to origamiboats > > > > Hello, > > This email message is a notification to let you know that > a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the origamiboats > group. > > File : /Seer's Swain 42 Schooner/M42interior3.JPG > Uploaded by : seeratlas > Description : Latest Interior Plan revision > > You can access this file at the URL: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/files/Seer%27s%20%20Swain%2042%20 Schooner/M42interior3.JPG > > To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit: > http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files > > Regards, > > seeratlas > > > > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > | 6061|6057|2004-10-31 17:51:00|seeratlas|Re: Latest revised interior posted for comments|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "edward_stoneuk" wrote: > > Seer, > > Is there a chart table? > > Regards, > Ted The plan is that the captain's chair swivels completely around in that 'wrap-around' pilot's station, if you swing about 140 from forward, facing that wide corner, that's where the charts lay. :) seer| 6062|6057|2004-10-31 18:14:57|seeratlas|Re: Latest revised interior posted for comments|Gord tells me his beam on his 40 is right at 12' plus or minus a half inch or so. This boat is just under a couple of feet longer and about 3" more beam a side..so total shown beam is just under 12'6". As you can see I need to clean up that starboard line, I estimate that actual constructed beam will be about 12'3. My pilot house design, being centered instead of aft is at the max beam point of the boat, and, since its somewhat higher than a normal house, and will have stainless handrails running its length on both sides, the house will be wider and the side decks slightly narrower but still plenty secure for going fore and aft along the deck. seer --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Mike" wrote: > > Seer: > What are you using as a dimension for max. breadth? If your > parameters fall within the tolerances for a Swain design, I find the > interior layout > to be quite attractive, but, just "eyeballing" your drawing, the > beam seems substantially greater than Brent's. Am I just cross-eyed? > Regards, > Mike > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "seeratlas" > wrote: > > > > Hi all, > > I just placed interior revision 3 in my folder under files. > > a couple of words of explanation. > > > > First in the forepeak you now see the hydraulic winch to Brent's > design, > > Second the sail locker w tiny washer/dryer has been relocated. > > The major revision here is in the stern where there are now > entrances > > aft from both sides of the stairway which is angled to port. > > The cross hatch pattern you see is the floor grating which now > extends > > to the bottom of the hathway ladder. this is on a lower level than > the > > cabin sole in the PH. The purpose here is to provide for wet crew > to > > come straight down the hatch, straight into the aft head, shuck > their > > wet gear and get warm without making a watery mess of the entire > PH. > > There will be provision for securing wet foul weather gear in the > > shower/tub of the aft head. > > > > The other mods of note are the split lazarette, the small area to > > starboard aft of the bunk is totally separated from the other > stowage > > area to port. This first area is meant for the really wet, > smelling, > > crummy gunky stuff you need to get stowed in a hurry and don't > want to > > mess up all your other stuff stowed on the other side. Things like > > fouled anchor rode for the stern anchor, crab pots, lobster traps > etc. > > > > The other area is kept open 'round the bend' so that overlength > items > > can be shoveled in there. > > > > The galley has had its sinks relocated forward, the fridge/refer > moved > > slightly outboard. There will be a flip up countertop to cover the > > open end giving more work space for serious cooking for a group. :) > > > > The guest cabin has been enlarged slightly and the bulkhead angles > > made easier for construction. > > > > That's about it. > > thanks for any comments. > > > > seer | 6063|22|2004-10-31 18:16:54|seeratlas|Re: New file uploaded to origamiboats|Hmmm, Greg, I pulled the earlier version file and put up a new one. Might have happened just as you were trying to pull it up. Give her another go. It's coming up for me Seer --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Sailor" wrote: > Tried to get into file; message was "The requested file or directory is not > found on the server." > > Any ideas? > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Sunday, October 31, 2004 2:51 PM > Subject: [origamiboats] New file uploaded to origamiboats > > > > > > > > > > Hello, > > > > This email message is a notification to let you know that > > a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the origamiboats > > group. > > > > File : /Seer's Swain 42 Schooner/M42interior3.JPG > > Uploaded by : seeratlas > > Description : Latest Interior Plan revision > > > > You can access this file at the URL: > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/files/Seer%27s%20%20Swain%2042%20 > Schooner/M42interior3.JPG > > > > To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit: > > http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files > > > > Regards, > > > > seeratlas > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > | 6064|22|2004-10-31 18:22:18|seeratlas|Re: New file uploaded to origamiboats|Hmmmm,Hmmmmm, :) Dunno why the link isn't working, maybe I broke it, but you can still just go to files and my folder then bring it up manually. It's in there and I'd like to get your opinion. seer -- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "seeratlas" wrote: > > Hmmm, > Greg, I pulled the earlier version file and put up a new one. Might > have happened just as you were trying to pull it up. > Give her another go. It's coming up for me > > Seer > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Sailor" wrote: > > Tried to get into file; message was "The requested file or directory > is not > > found on the server." > > > > Any ideas? > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: > > To: > > Sent: Sunday, October 31, 2004 2:51 PM > > Subject: [origamiboats] New file uploaded to origamiboats > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hello, > > > > > > This email message is a notification to let you know that > > > a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the origamiboats > > > group. > > > > > > File : /Seer's Swain 42 Schooner/M42interior3.JPG > > > Uploaded by : seeratlas > > > Description : Latest Interior Plan revision > > > > > > You can access this file at the URL: > > > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/files/Seer%27s%20%20Swain%2042%20 > > Schooner/M42interior3.JPG > > > > > > To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit: > > > http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > seeratlas > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > | 6065|6065|2004-10-31 18:41:22|seeratlas|Seer's 42 Swain Schooner Interior draft|Couple of other comments on the design you're now looking at. First, one of the additional advantages is that the aft or main head is now accessible easily and privately by everyone as there are doors from both the PH and the aft cabin. When whomever is in the aft cabin uses it, they can secure the pilot house door and vice versa. This makes the head easily accessible at sea when unless the weather is quite favorable, it is unlikely the forward head will be used unless you're in the doldrums :) heheheh. That works tho, cause at sea you're always (at least if you're like me) looking for somewhere to just 'toss' stuff you either don't have the will, time or strength to deal with at the moment. The forward head is a perfect place for this at sea. In port, the guest cabin effectively has its own private head for the late early EARLY morning dashes to the porcelain following a late night of carousing :) Similarly anyone occupying the aft cabin can crawl directly into their own private facility. The swing out chair in the galley sounds funky to some of you, but I tell you if you've ever tried one, you'll like it. especially if the boat is moving around a bit in a seaway. This one is height adjustable for those times when my mother (5'3) is on the boat:) The dinette table will have an expandable leaf that entends slightly out into the PH center. I'm toying with the idea of putting a sunken receiver for the captain's chair so it can be easily lifted up and set over at the dinette for a gang meal or a good comfortable game of poker, er Go Fish! LOL I'm liking the idea of the curved stairway since I can use a steel pole as the anchor for the welded in steps with wooden tread surfaces, like the spiral staircase you see in old haunted mansions. The pole will also add to the support of the mainmast which is just adjacent to the hatch. I have drawn in the step down just about level with the leading edge of the pilot's station. This area will be about as low as I can get it and still have reasonable under sole storage. That means the guest berth is raised somewhat so will have a step I havn't drawn in. It's raised so as to placed higher up against the topsides for more width. Since its a 'captive' berth, i'm not worried about people falling out unless i get pitchpoled (crosses fingers) and they go A-holes and Elbows over forward at which point I have a lot more problems than falling out of bed anyway . I frankly REALLY like the rather large 'soft stowage' sail locker on the port side forward. I can pull stuff out on the cabin sole there and work on it without disturbing anyone else in the boat and have a reasonale sized flat surface to work on. Should work great for working on sewing awnings, repairing solar panels, doing some make shift carpentry etc without having crewmates tromping through the work area at bad moments. There is one more Item I'm thinking of incorporating but am still thinking that one over. I'll ask about ideas on it in another post. Seer| 6066|6041|2004-10-31 18:52:31|RICHARD KOKEMOOR|Determining Engine Usability|Michael Casling wrote: "Motors for generating run at a multiple of 60 or they have a very smart computer like the new Honda generators. If the engine has enough torque then 1800 revs is common. My noisy B&S runs at 3600." Some time back a member who identified himself as a diesel mechanic wrote that stationary engines that ran at a constant rpm would have to have their injection pumps reworked before they could be run at variable throttle. No more has been written on this subject. Does anyone know whether this would involve simply removing or defeating some sort of governor, or go so far as to require actually replacing the injector pump? --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete - You start. We finish. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]| 6067|6067|2004-10-31 20:43:32|rossburn24|Aluminum Plate Length|Where does one buy 36 feet lengths of 5086 aluminum plate in Alberta or BC? Longest I show is 24 feet.| 6068|6065|2004-11-01 02:18:11|Gerd|Re: Seer's 42 Swain Schooner Interior draft|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "seeratlas" wrote: > I'm liking the idea of the curved stairway since I can use a steel > pole as the anchor for the welded in steps with wooden tread surfaces, > like the spiral staircase you see in old haunted mansions. The curved stairway might haunt you even on a boat, as it will simply disappear underneath you when heeled over it ;-) Otherwise it's lovely how much free space you get when you raise the floors until they run almost across the entire width midships - refreshing to see a completely new approach like that. Gerd the Yago Project at http://www.justmueller.com/boats/| 6069|5953|2004-11-01 02:59:36|brentswain38|Re: Deck weld distortion|I usually leave the weld ridge there and use it as a paint guide line and paint the bulwark a different colour than the hull, This makes the ridge invisible. Keep the line parrallell witht he bulwark top tho. Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "edward_stoneuk" wrote: > > Evan, > Mine hasn't oilcaned; more of a pulling in on the hull sides above > and below the deck line and a visible weld line. Trying to grind > these flat can, if not done very carefully, produce more of a > disfigurement than leaving them. One can see similar weld marks in > some of the forum photos. I have a bit of distortion where I joined > two sheets together to form the hull side as I couldn't get long > enough sheets. I haven't decided whether to leave it, use filler or > cut out and replace, which might give me the same problem. > Regards, > Ted | 6070|22|2004-11-01 07:50:21|Puck III|Re: New file uploaded to origamiboats & ze Divan|Seer , I like your thoughts on porcelain :-) I wanne ad a refreshing and new life saving devise : just see http://store1.yimg.com/I/brandsonsale-store_1818_146226751 for $ 79.99 you have what I miss on your boat : ze Divan. The girl on the devise ( open or closed ) sure does not look like my mom , and the divise can always be deflated so you regain the floorspace wich you seem to love. Ass seen on TV :-) --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "seeratlas" wrote: > > Hmmmm,Hmmmmm, :) > > Dunno why the link isn't working, maybe I broke it, but you can still > just go to files and my folder then bring it up manually. It's in > there and I'd like to get your opinion. > > seer > > -- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "seeratlas" wrote: > > > > Hmmm, > > Greg, I pulled the earlier version file and put up a new one. Might > > have happened just as you were trying to pull it up. > > Give her another go. It's coming up for me > > > > Seer > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Sailor" wrote: > > > Tried to get into file; message was "The requested file or directory > > is not > > > found on the server." > > > > > > Any ideas? > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: > > > To: > > > Sent: Sunday, October 31, 2004 2:51 PM > > > Subject: [origamiboats] New file uploaded to origamiboats > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hello, > > > > > > > > This email message is a notification to let you know that > > > > a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the origamiboats > > > > group. > > > > > > > > File : /Seer's Swain 42 Schooner/M42interior3.JPG > > > > Uploaded by : seeratlas > > > > Description : Latest Interior Plan revision > > > > > > > > You can access this file at the URL: > > > > > > > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/files/Seer%27s%2 0%20Swain%2042%20 > > > Schooner/M42interior3.JPG > > > > > > > > To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit: > > > > http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > seeratlas > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > > > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > | 6071|6065|2004-11-01 07:59:09|seeratlas|Re: Seer's 42 Swain Schooner Interior draft|Gerd, Thats a good point!!! LOL, Brent tells me to expect about a 20 degree heel, so I'll have to mock that one up and see what I need to do dimensionwise. otherwise at heel it could be like going down a fire pole LOL. Re the interior floors/cabin sole. Thanks for the comment. Actually I'm very pleased with how this is going so far. I've tried to put the places where I'll spend the most time in the middle of the boat for least motion and comfort. This necessarily splits the boat fore and aft which does a lot for privacy and crew separation when you just want to go be by yourself and read, or snooze or whatever. On the Falcon the workbench was in the 'almost headroom' engine room which made it a miserable place to try and work. If the diesel smell didn't get you, the heat and noise while running did. At dock it wasn't such a big problem but this boat isn't meant for the dock:) heheh. Lastly, some will complain that my interior splits things up too much but I beg to differ. The long visual from the stairway thru to the foreward head will help as will the judicious placement of mirrors which have an amazing effect on the psychological perception of the size of a cabin or other space. My last real BIG concern is exactly how high the PH needs to be to get comfortable visibility over the bow and to lesser degree, out the stern. I think I'll probably have to wait till i can get an eyeball on Gord's 40. It was always my impression that you needed a larger house on a trawler than a sailboat as you were mostly straight upright on a trawler but generally heeled on a ragboat so you're actually looking to the side of the bow than right over the stem-In my case especially with the sprit out there. I'd like to hear from anyone with strong opinions on the forward visibility factor and what they judge to be enough but not too much. Thankx seer --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Gerd" wrote: > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "seeratlas" > wrote: > > > I'm liking the idea of the curved stairway since I can use a steel > > pole as the anchor for the welded in steps with wooden tread > surfaces, > > like the spiral staircase you see in old haunted mansions. > > The curved stairway might haunt you even on a boat, as it will > simply disappear underneath you when heeled over it ;-) > Otherwise it's lovely how much free space you get when you raise the > floors until they run almost across the entire width midships - > refreshing to see a completely new approach like that. > > Gerd > the Yago Project at http://www.justmueller.com/boats/ | 6072|22|2004-11-01 08:13:28|seeratlas|Re: New file uploaded to origamiboats & ze Divan|Ben LOL, Re 'ze Divan' hmm I guess that could qualify both as 'inflatable flotation' and, should one be able to get it out of a hatch (heheh) a life raft that is SURE to get the attention of the local navy and/or coastguard!!! heheheh especially with the pictured 'accessory'. Re the floorspace, remember, my engine and equiptment is located further forward than normal and is under the center of the raised cabin sole in the PH so I want to be able to pull up the floor and get lots of access in a hurry. Plus the tanks and valves and heavy item stowage are down there so .... Besides, that clear area has another useful purpose- :) before you hit 'ze Divan' its' been my experience a little investment in 'slow dancing' results in substantial dividends.. :) Seer --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III" wrote: > > Seer , I like your thoughts on porcelain :-) > I wanne ad a refreshing and new life saving devise : just see > http://store1.yimg.com/I/brandsonsale-store_1818_146226751 > for $ 79.99 you have what I miss on your boat : ze Divan. > The girl on the devise ( open or closed ) > sure does not look like my mom , and the divise can always be > deflated so you regain the floorspace wich you seem to love. > Ass seen on TV :-) > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "seeratlas" > wrote: > > > > Hmmmm,Hmmmmm, :) > > > > Dunno why the link isn't working, maybe I broke it, but you can > still > > just go to files and my folder then bring it up manually. It's in > > there and I'd like to get your opinion. > > > > seer > > > > -- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "seeratlas" > wrote: > > > > > > Hmmm, > > > Greg, I pulled the earlier version file and put up a new one. > Might > > > have happened just as you were trying to pull it up. > > > Give her another go. It's coming up for me > > > > > > Seer > > > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Sailor" > wrote: > > > > Tried to get into file; message was "The requested file or > directory > > > is not > > > > found on the server." > > > > > > > > Any ideas? > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: > > > > To: > > > > Sent: Sunday, October 31, 2004 2:51 PM > > > > Subject: [origamiboats] New file uploaded to origamiboats > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hello, > > > > > > > > > > This email message is a notification to let you know that > > > > > a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the > origamiboats > > > > > group. > > > > > > > > > > File : /Seer's Swain 42 Schooner/M42interior3.JPG > > > > > Uploaded by : seeratlas > > > > > Description : Latest Interior Plan revision > > > > > > > > > > You can access this file at the URL: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/files/Seer%27s%2 > 0%20Swain%2042%20 > > > > Schooner/M42interior3.JPG > > > > > > > > > > To learn more about file sharing for your group, please > visit: > > > > > http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > seeratlas > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: > origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > > > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > > > > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > | 6073|6073|2004-11-01 09:15:04|seeratlas|Containers and things that go 'bump' in the night..|I keep seeing reports of '1000's of containers lost at sea' but I was wondering just how many are actually out there. Seems to me that a lot of the 'missing at sea' containers are probably helped along to be 'missing at the dock' by some more shady members of the various longshoremen's unions around the ports of the globe. After all, its 'tradition' hehehe. However, assuming some of them are actually hitting the water, has anyone on this board ever seen one? I never have, tho my horizontal 'depth sounders' caused me to detour around something big floating in the water off Baranoff one night..Wasn't picked up by radar so it was low. I know Brent said one of his boats hit one somewhere but I don't remember if he was on the boat at the time or not. The reason I ask is that isn't the law of the sea a variation of 'finder's keepers'? I wonder how hard it would be to attempt a salvage? First, if its anywhere near shore, (unlikely) maybe you could try and tow it in. Alternatively, ,,,, We 4x4'rs routinely carry 20k lb 'nylon tow straps which are pretty inexpensive. With a compressor on board and say 3 or 4 of those straps and some 6 or 8 inflatable salvage bags, assuming a quiet sea it seems to me that you could stabilize the container and raise it so whatever surface is towards the top would be a few inches up to a foot or so clear of the water. Now, if you rig all that up and the sea cooperated, either having a portable cutting rig on board (which I have) or running some longish cables out of a porthole from one of Brent's alternator arc welders.(which i also plan to have...hehehe) why couldn't you cut a hole in the top of the container and see what's in there? If it's got some water in it, a hose hooked to a pump could raise it even more while you're investigating or at least slow the water ingress once you pop the top so to speak. All you'd have to do is hit one with say a few pallets of brand new laptop computers on board, and the whole undertaking would be, well, a new version of finding 'almost buried' treasure- well worth the effort LOL assuming you have some room on your ship to stack 40 or 50 of em in there hehehehe. The inflatable bags (they look like ballons underwater when inflated) are easy to make or buy and a variety could be carried on board for a number of reasons especially for those who scuba dive. A simple Hookah rig using one of the new oiless compressors available anywhere for very little money could be rigged up to handle the filling of the bags and provide air for the 'salvag'or' :) etc. While not risk free, if the container isn't leaking and the seas are quiet I would think it possible to attempt a salvage with acceptable degrees of risk. What am I missing here? Think of all the neat stuff you might find inside a container? :) Course I'd probably find one full of guano or something LOL. Lastly, yeah I can think of a thousand things that could go wrong, but, seems if you thought it through and were very careful about not entering the container until you were sure everything was stable etc. etc. etc. that it might prove a profitable enterprise. :) To find em I guess you'd wait till a big storm has come thru and established shipping lane and then turn on the sonar and go hunting :) hehehe it would be dead easy to rig a pole off the transom or stem with a horizontally mounted transducer run to a powerful fishfinder or depth sounder. The pole could even be rotated back and forth thru 120 degrees or so to 'scan' for any big metal thing floating near the surface :) whatcha think? at least the idea is fun to consider :) seer| 6074|6074|2004-11-01 10:16:11|Puck III|Things that can " bump" in the night on " ze Divan "|Seer , I hope I still will be adventurous enough to sail by night :-) http://store1.yimg.com/I/brandsonsale-store_1818_146226751 is what you call an accessory that could receive some attention , I warn you , and all weak hearted souls in the Group , not to look at what I posted to make clear to you what I see as even more serious accessories that could go " bump " in the night : http://tinyurl.com/66g2c as an old salt sailor I imagine I would wanne skip the floordance and redesign my interior with some more USEFULL space if you see what I mean , I sure would want a 360 ° vieuw out of my deckhouse . Imagine her walking to the store to bye some beers for you, wouldn't you wanne see her come back to your Schooner , and she will come back if your water-condo is agreable , hehehe woman are hard to please on boats , LOL If you see Her passing by , please tell Her old Ben knows all about making a boat comfi enough , so she wont run away :-) Naughty old Ben :-)| 6075|6073|2004-11-01 11:37:10|johnny weimann|Re: Containers and things that go 'bump' in the night..|lol i been thinking along the same line --- seeratlas wrote: > > I keep seeing reports of '1000's of containers lost > at sea' but I was > wondering just how many are actually out there. > Seems to me that a > lot of the 'missing at sea' containers are probably > helped along to be > 'missing at the dock' by some more shady members of > the various > longshoremen's unions around the ports of the globe. > After all, its > 'tradition' hehehe. > > However, assuming some of them are actually hitting > the water, has > anyone on this board ever seen one? I never have, > tho my horizontal > 'depth sounders' caused me to detour around > something big floating in > the water off Baranoff one night..Wasn't picked up > by radar so it was > low. I know Brent said one of his boats hit one > somewhere but I don't > remember if he was on the boat at the time or not. > > The reason I ask is that isn't the law of the sea a > variation of > 'finder's keepers'? I wonder how hard it would be > to attempt a > salvage? First, if its anywhere near shore, > (unlikely) maybe you > could try and tow it in. Alternatively, ,,,, > > We 4x4'rs routinely carry 20k lb 'nylon tow straps > which are pretty > inexpensive. With a compressor on board and say 3 > or 4 of those > straps and some 6 or 8 inflatable salvage bags, > assuming a quiet sea > it seems to me that you could stabilize the > container and raise it so > whatever surface is towards the top would be a few > inches up to a foot > or so clear of the water. Now, if you rig all that > up and the sea > cooperated, either having a portable cutting rig on > board (which I > have) or running some > longish cables out of a porthole from one of Brent's > alternator arc > welders.(which i also plan to have...hehehe) why > couldn't you cut a > hole in the top of the container and see what's in > there? If it's got > some water in it, a hose hooked to a pump could > raise it even more > while you're investigating or at least slow the > water ingress once you > pop the top so to speak. > > All you'd have to do is hit one with say a few > pallets of brand new > laptop computers on board, and the whole undertaking > would be, well, a > new version of finding 'almost buried' treasure- > well worth the effort > LOL assuming you have some room on your ship to > stack 40 or 50 of em > in there hehehehe. > > The inflatable bags (they look like ballons > underwater when inflated) > are easy to make or buy and a variety could be > carried on board for a > number of reasons especially for those who scuba > dive. A simple > Hookah rig using one of the new oiless compressors > available anywhere > for very little money could be rigged up to handle > the filling of the > bags and provide air for the 'salvag'or' :) etc. > > While not risk free, if the container isn't leaking > and the seas are > quiet I would think it possible to attempt a salvage > with acceptable > degrees of risk. > > What am I missing here? Think of all the neat stuff > you might find > inside a container? :) Course I'd probably find one > full of guano or > something LOL. > > Lastly, yeah I can think of a thousand things that > could go wrong, > but, seems if you thought it through and were very > careful about not > entering the container until you were sure > everything was stable etc. > etc. etc. that it might prove a profitable > enterprise. :) To find em > I guess you'd wait till a big storm has come thru > and established > shipping lane and then turn on the sonar and go > hunting :) hehehe > > it would be dead easy to rig a pole off the transom > or stem with a > horizontally mounted transducer run to a powerful > fishfinder or depth > sounder. The pole could even be rotated back and > forth thru 120 > degrees or so to 'scan' for any big metal thing > floating near the > surface :) > > whatcha think? at least the idea is fun to consider > :) > > seer > > > > > > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete - You start. We finish. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail| 6076|6074|2004-11-01 12:32:31|seeratlas|Re: Things that can " bump" in the night on " ze Divan "|Ben, hmmm unless that particular accessory somehow folds up into a more compact 'package', I don't think I could get it down my winding staircase into the boat. seer --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III" wrote: > > Seer , I hope I still will be adventurous enough to sail by night :-) > http://store1.yimg.com/I/brandsonsale-store_1818_146226751 > is what you call an accessory that could receive some attention , > I warn you , and all weak hearted souls in the Group , not to look > at what I posted to make clear to you what I see as even more > serious accessories that could go " bump " in the night : > http://tinyurl.com/66g2c as an old salt sailor I imagine I > would wanne skip the floordance and redesign my interior > with some more USEFULL space if you see what I mean , > I sure would want a 360 ° vieuw out of my deckhouse . > Imagine her walking to the store to bye some beers for you, > wouldn't you wanne see her come back to your Schooner , > and she will come back if your water-condo is agreable , hehehe > woman are hard to please on boats , LOL > If you see Her passing by , please tell Her old Ben knows all > about making a boat comfi enough , so she wont run away :-) > Naughty old Ben :-) | 6077|6073|2004-11-01 12:42:20|Bruce Hallman|Re: Containers and things that go 'bump' in the night..|> However, assuming some of them are actually hitting the water, has > anyone on this board ever seen one? Well counting the Nike Shoes in 1982, and the Rubber Duckies in 1992 there were approximatley 20 containers involved. 1,000's? it is hard to believe. Some of them might sink too. http://tinyurl.com/4ou79 How does your horizontal depth sounder work? Don't you get a lot of false positives?| 6078|6073|2004-11-01 14:02:23|seeratlas|Re: Containers and things that go 'bump' in the night..|-After I wrote that, I did a search and came up with the maritime casualty pages. They claim something like 10,000 containers a year? Man that's a lot. AND , from the reports some of these containers float around for weeks. On the other hand, not all of em have 'goodies' LOL, seems that they are now shipping explosives and hazardous chemicals in them too --- that would be a REAL bummer to start flame cutting one of those !!! I came across those Nike shoes and duckies references too. Oh for a container coming in from japan with a load of Honda motorcycle crates or maybe Yamaha outboards :) heheheh. One thing I did read that was good was that electronics equipt comes packaged in plastic so would withstand any water intrusion longer and is more likely to have a better sealed container. For a guy with a lot of time on his hands would be a riot to plot the storms, ship tracks and currents. One other interesting thing, these ships report when they lose containers over the side so with good commo, you'd get a heads up on when the stuff hit the drink. I think I've been pent up on land too long LOL. seer PS. hmmm tho the way I have my schooner lazarette designed, I could stick a couple of mopeds in there....hmmmm LOL. -- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Hallman wrote: > > However, assuming some of them are actually hitting the water, has > > anyone on this board ever seen one? > > Well counting the Nike Shoes in 1982, and the Rubber Duckies in 1992 > there were approximatley 20 containers involved. 1,000's? it is hard > to believe. > Some of them might sink too. > > http://tinyurl.com/4ou79 > > How does your horizontal depth sounder work? Don't you get a > lot of false positives? | 6079|6073|2004-11-01 14:17:46|seeratlas|Re: Containers and things that go 'bump' in the night..|> > How does your horizontal depth sounder work? Don't you get a > lot of false positives? I had one perm mounted low on the hull on the Falcon and it worked great. It was supposed to tilt down 5 degrees from horizontal and took a little fiddling with the sensitivity but once we got it aimed and set it was remarkable effective. Course that was a fibreglass boat. Don't know how its going to react with the steel, but since I'm building a bilge keel boat I have two options. :) Can't remember the manufacturer, think maybe Ratheon, but it had a manually set depth alarm which we kept out at about 250 feet or so. when that thing went off whomever was near the helm was supposed to veer off and slowed down. The night I was speaking about, off Baranoff {sp?} I was only moving about 3 or 4 knots. When the alarm went off I happened to be in the cockpit and just swung off about 45 degrees to starboard. The display clearly showed something big veer off the screen as I turned, but at the same time nothing was on the radar (course with a mast mount, something had to be fairly tall out of the water at 2 to 300 feet to show up). Unfortunately it was a dark night and I couldn't see the water well enough to see what it had been. This is one of the things that's convinced me to mount a big searchlight on the PH on the new boat. (the other is that its amazing what you can draw to the surface at night with a strong beam shooting down into the water :) fun stuff. On the other hand, the forward facing depth/fish finder was very good at finding underwater rocks and steering between them trying to get into a harbor or inlet. Used it a lot on the outside of Vancouver Island. Some wild stuff out there. seer| 6080|6041|2004-11-01 16:37:59|edward_stoneuk|Re: Determining Engine Usability|Richard, I lived in a place once where the electricity for the small community came from an alternator belt driven by a 5 cylinder Gardener. One evening as we sat drinking our nightcaps the ceiling fan started to speed up and the lights got brighter and brighter and the ceiling fan started to sound like a helicopter and we ran to the generator shed and shut it down. A clevis pin had fallen out of the linkage from the governor to the injector pump and without anything to control the speed it started to go faster and as it went faster the alternator frequency and output increased so the ceiling fan went faster and the lights got brighter. As far as that motor was concerned the governor was separate from the injector pump. The governor was adjustable. A Lister I worked on had an adjustable governor. Many stationary applications require adjustable speed and or the ability to idle. Generators, if they are sold internationally need to be adjustable for US 60 Hz or elsewhere 50Hz supply. A sailboat engine does not necessarily need a quick response as in a car or a van and so I think that it is not an issue. I guess the best thing is when you see an engine you fancy is to contact the manufacturers to find out. Regards, Ted| 6081|6073|2004-11-01 16:38:42|Sugar|Re: Containers and things that go 'bump' in the night..|I'm not surprised about the Rubber Ducks floating half way around the world for 11 years. I recently saw a guy in his 30's being interviewed with his mother. When he was around 10 yeasrs old his mother wanted him to be part of a great adventure. They wrote a message in a bottle, including his mother's address, and threw it in the ocean. A few months ago they received a letter from some people explaining that they live half way around the world and recently found the bottle floating in the water. They opened the bottle up and there was the boys message. The people that found the bottle even attached the boys original message with their letter to prove that they were the finders. Way Cool. They did a big story on it on T.V. The scientist could only speculate all the places that the bottle may have traveled. It was quite interesting. So, rubber ducks floating for 11 years? Yep. It happens. :) SeerAtlasAngel In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Hallman wrote: > > However, assuming some of them are actually hitting the water, has > > anyone on this board ever seen one? > > Well counting the Nike Shoes in 1982, and the Rubber Duckies in 1992 > there were approximatley 20 containers involved. 1,000's? it is hard > to believe. > Some of them might sink too. > > http://tinyurl.com/4ou79 > > How does your horizontal depth sounder work? Don't you get a > lot of false positives? | 6082|6073|2004-11-01 16:45:20|fmichael graham|Re: Containers and things that go 'bump' in the night..|Seer: Basically, you can take possession of a container, for the purpose of salvage, because it is a hazard to navigation. However, you can only place a salvage lien on the container & it's contents - it isn't exactly "finders-keepers". If, however, the "owner" does not wish to pay the cost of the salvage operation within a certain time period, you petition for the container/contents to displace the salvage costs. You wouldn't be wise to try to tow a container in, unless weather, sea state & distance were minimal and, even then, it would be a major undertaking. However, if you were to manage landing the container & removing it from the water(major challenge), I would recommend that the container "fall open" during salvage & that you loot the contents. LOL The worst part about containers/logs is that the owners are not liable for damages to your vessel if you hit them, yet, taking possession without following the correct course of action can lead to being charged with theft. Go figure. Yes, there are many containers bobbing about the world's oceans, and many more which have already sank. When a container-ship loses some of it's cargo, everyone looks the other way. I watched a heavily-laden Maersk ship drop more than a couple of dozen containers just outside of the port of Kaohsiung, Taiwan. The ship continued on it's way. I didn't see any salvage operation taking place over the next few days, so I assume the "pirates" must have picked them up at night. Regards, Mike seeratlas wrote: I keep seeing reports of '1000's of containers lost at sea' but I was wondering just how many are actually out there. Seems to me that a lot of the 'missing at sea' containers are probably helped along to be 'missing at the dock' by some more shady members of the various longshoremen's unions around the ports of the globe. After all, its 'tradition' hehehe. However, assuming some of them are actually hitting the water, has anyone on this board ever seen one? I never have, tho my horizontal 'depth sounders' caused me to detour around something big floating in the water off Baranoff one night..Wasn't picked up by radar so it was low. I know Brent said one of his boats hit one somewhere but I don't remember if he was on the boat at the time or not. The reason I ask is that isn't the law of the sea a variation of 'finder's keepers'? I wonder how hard it would be to attempt a salvage? First, if its anywhere near shore, (unlikely) maybe you could try and tow it in. Alternatively, ,,,, We 4x4'rs routinely carry 20k lb 'nylon tow straps which are pretty inexpensive. With a compressor on board and say 3 or 4 of those straps and some 6 or 8 inflatable salvage bags, assuming a quiet sea it seems to me that you could stabilize the container and raise it so whatever surface is towards the top would be a few inches up to a foot or so clear of the water. Now, if you rig all that up and the sea cooperated, either having a portable cutting rig on board (which I have) or running some longish cables out of a porthole from one of Brent's alternator arc welders.(which i also plan to have...hehehe) why couldn't you cut a hole in the top of the container and see what's in there? If it's got some water in it, a hose hooked to a pump could raise it even more while you're investigating or at least slow the water ingress once you pop the top so to speak. All you'd have to do is hit one with say a few pallets of brand new laptop computers on board, and the whole undertaking would be, well, a new version of finding 'almost buried' treasure- well worth the effort LOL assuming you have some room on your ship to stack 40 or 50 of em in there hehehehe. The inflatable bags (they look like ballons underwater when inflated) are easy to make or buy and a variety could be carried on board for a number of reasons especially for those who scuba dive. A simple Hookah rig using one of the new oiless compressors available anywhere for very little money could be rigged up to handle the filling of the bags and provide air for the 'salvag'or' :) etc. While not risk free, if the container isn't leaking and the seas are quiet I would think it possible to attempt a salvage with acceptable degrees of risk. What am I missing here? Think of all the neat stuff you might find inside a container? :) Course I'd probably find one full of guano or something LOL. Lastly, yeah I can think of a thousand things that could go wrong, but, seems if you thought it through and were very careful about not entering the container until you were sure everything was stable etc. etc. etc. that it might prove a profitable enterprise. :) To find em I guess you'd wait till a big storm has come thru and established shipping lane and then turn on the sonar and go hunting :) hehehe it would be dead easy to rig a pole off the transom or stem with a horizontally mounted transducer run to a powerful fishfinder or depth sounder. The pole could even be rotated back and forth thru 120 degrees or so to 'scan' for any big metal thing floating near the surface :) whatcha think? at least the idea is fun to consider :) seer To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor Get unlimited calls to U.S./Canada --------------------------------- Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. --------------------------------- Post your free ad now! Yahoo! Canada Personals [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]| 6083|6074|2004-11-01 16:57:09|fmichael graham|Re: Things that can " bump" in the night on " ze Divan "|Ben: You bad boy, you! With a set of fenders, like those, on board, you'd be ready for a roll-over, wouldn't you? Is this the latest technology in inflatable life-rafts? I see where you mount the GPS, but where are the rations stored? does she come with paddles? Maybe, you sit "abreast" & she self-paddles to shore? oh, wait, that's not a GPS holder, that's where the mast is stepped, right? I'd better go find my wife & try this out on dry land before going into the water for a shakedown. I'm beginning to think that you have too much time on your hands, Ben! Thanks for the laughs, Mike Puck III wrote: Seer , I hope I still will be adventurous enough to sail by night :-) http://store1.yimg.com/I/brandsonsale-store_1818_146226751 is what you call an accessory that could receive some attention , I warn you , and all weak hearted souls in the Group , not to look at what I posted to make clear to you what I see as even more serious accessories that could go " bump " in the night : http://tinyurl.com/66g2c as an old salt sailor I imagine I would wanne skip the floordance and redesign my interior with some more USEFULL space if you see what I mean , I sure would want a 360 � vieuw out of my deckhouse . Imagine her walking to the store to bye some beers for you, wouldn't you wanne see her come back to your Schooner , and she will come back if your water-condo is agreable , hehehe woman are hard to please on boats , LOL If you see Her passing by , please tell Her old Ben knows all about making a boat comfi enough , so she wont run away :-) Naughty old Ben :-) To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor Get unlimited calls to U.S./Canada --------------------------------- Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. --------------------------------- Post your free ad now! Yahoo! Canada Personals [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]| 6084|6073|2004-11-01 17:10:21|seeratlas|Re: Containers and things that go 'bump' in the night..|Ahhh, Thanks for the info :) So, Kaohsiung eh? That sounds like an interesting story:) One of my best stories is how I once played golf with the commander of the island's armed forces in Kaohsiung (I lost, on purpose hehehe, we were escorted down the fairways by spec forces types in full combat gear and armed to the teeth. You'd have lost too LOL). Now, I wonder if the Pirates of Vancouver are workin off the San Juan de Fuca......Maybe Brent can build his boats so cheap cause he's using 40 foot plates off 'homeless' containers!@!!!! rflmao seer --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, fmichael graham wrote: > Seer: > Basically, you can take possession of a container, for the purpose of salvage, because it is a hazard to navigation. However, you can only place a salvage lien on the container & it's contents - it isn't exactly "finders-keepers". If, however, the "owner" does not wish to pay the cost of the salvage operation within a certain time period, you petition for the container/contents to displace the salvage costs. You wouldn't be wise to try to tow a container in, unless weather, sea state & distance were minimal and, even then, it would be a major undertaking. > > However, if you were to manage landing the container & removing it from the water(major challenge), I would recommend that the container "fall open" during salvage & that you loot the contents. LOL > > The worst part about containers/logs is that the owners are not liable for damages to your vessel if you hit them, yet, taking possession without following the correct course of action can lead to being charged with theft. Go figure. > > Yes, there are many containers bobbing about the world's oceans, and many more which have already sank. When a container-ship loses some of it's cargo, everyone looks the other way. I watched a heavily-laden Maersk ship drop more than a couple of dozen containers just outside of the port of Kaohsiung, Taiwan. The ship continued on it's way. I didn't see any salvage operation taking place over the next few days, so I assume the "pirates" must have picked them up at night. > > Regards, > Mike > > > seeratlas wrote: > > I keep seeing reports of '1000's of containers lost at sea' but I was > wondering just how many are actually out there. Seems to me that a > lot of the 'missing at sea' containers are probably helped along to be > 'missing at the dock' by some more shady members of the various > longshoremen's unions around the ports of the globe. After all, its > 'tradition' hehehe. > > However, assuming some of them are actually hitting the water, has > anyone on this board ever seen one? I never have, tho my horizontal > 'depth sounders' caused me to detour around something big floating in > the water off Baranoff one night..Wasn't picked up by radar so it was > low. I know Brent said one of his boats hit one somewhere but I don't > remember if he was on the boat at the time or not. > > The reason I ask is that isn't the law of the sea a variation of > 'finder's keepers'? I wonder how hard it would be to attempt a > salvage? First, if its anywhere near shore, (unlikely) maybe you > could try and tow it in. Alternatively, ,,,, > > We 4x4'rs routinely carry 20k lb 'nylon tow straps which are pretty > inexpensive. With a compressor on board and say 3 or 4 of those > straps and some 6 or 8 inflatable salvage bags, assuming a quiet sea > it seems to me that you could stabilize the container and raise it so > whatever surface is towards the top would be a few inches up to a foot > or so clear of the water. Now, if you rig all that up and the sea > cooperated, either having a portable cutting rig on board (which I > have) or running some > longish cables out of a porthole from one of Brent's alternator arc > welders.(which i also plan to have...hehehe) why couldn't you cut a > hole in the top of the container and see what's in there? If it's got > some water in it, a hose hooked to a pump could raise it even more > while you're investigating or at least slow the water ingress once you > pop the top so to speak. > > All you'd have to do is hit one with say a few pallets of brand new > laptop computers on board, and the whole undertaking would be, well, a > new version of finding 'almost buried' treasure- well worth the effort > LOL assuming you have some room on your ship to stack 40 or 50 of em > in there hehehehe. > > The inflatable bags (they look like ballons underwater when inflated) > are easy to make or buy and a variety could be carried on board for a > number of reasons especially for those who scuba dive. A simple > Hookah rig using one of the new oiless compressors available anywhere > for very little money could be rigged up to handle the filling of the > bags and provide air for the 'salvag'or' :) etc. > > While not risk free, if the container isn't leaking and the seas are > quiet I would think it possible to attempt a salvage with acceptable > degrees of risk. > > What am I missing here? Think of all the neat stuff you might find > inside a container? :) Course I'd probably find one full of guano or > something LOL. > > Lastly, yeah I can think of a thousand things that could go wrong, > but, seems if you thought it through and were very careful about not > entering the container until you were sure everything was stable etc. > etc. etc. that it might prove a profitable enterprise. :) To find em > I guess you'd wait till a big storm has come thru and established > shipping lane and then turn on the sonar and go hunting :) hehehe > > it would be dead easy to rig a pole off the transom or stem with a > horizontally mounted transducer run to a powerful fishfinder or depth > sounder. The pole could even be rotated back and forth thru 120 > degrees or so to 'scan' for any big metal thing floating near the > surface :) > > whatcha think? at least the idea is fun to consider :) > > seer > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > Get unlimited calls to > > U.S./Canada > > > --------------------------------- > Yahoo! Groups Links > > To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/ > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > > > > --------------------------------- > Post your free ad now! Yahoo! Canada Personals > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 6085|6073|2004-11-01 17:49:32|fmichael graham|Re: Containers and things that go 'bump' in the night..|Seer: It's a different place, isn't it? Traffic police with Mac-10s slung over their shoulders, golf memberships@ 1 million per(I can't remember if it was NTD or USD), the Chinese Navy doing sail-pasts every 6 months, or so... What brought you to the ugliest place in Asia? (Bangladesh excepted) Let me guess, ESL? no. Engineer? perhaps. Ship building? yeah, that's it, right? Or, were you travelling through Asia & tripped over Taiwan by mistake? Hey, if you want a used scooter, that's the place to go! You know, if one were to be marooned on a desert island & have the knowledge to build one of Brent's designs, all he/she would need would be a couple of containers(one with a motor-generator & some fuel & welding rods inside), and escape - if wanted - would be at hand! oh, yeah, and a pair of those custom "Ben fenders", for comfort. I'm beginning to think that we both - as with Ben - have too much time on our hands. (Which, is a very good thing, indeed!) Take care, Mike seeratlas wrote: Ahhh, Thanks for the info :) So, Kaohsiung eh? That sounds like an interesting story:) One of my best stories is how I once played golf with the commander of the island's armed forces in Kaohsiung (I lost, on purpose hehehe, we were escorted down the fairways by spec forces types in full combat gear and armed to the teeth. You'd have lost too LOL). Now, I wonder if the Pirates of Vancouver are workin off the San Juan de Fuca......Maybe Brent can build his boats so cheap cause he's using 40 foot plates off 'homeless' containers!@!!!! rflmao seer --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, fmichael graham wrote: > Seer: > Basically, you can take possession of a container, for the purpose of salvage, because it is a hazard to navigation. However, you can only place a salvage lien on the container & it's contents - it isn't exactly "finders-keepers". If, however, the "owner" does not wish to pay the cost of the salvage operation within a certain time period, you petition for the container/contents to displace the salvage costs. You wouldn't be wise to try to tow a container in, unless weather, sea state & distance were minimal and, even then, it would be a major undertaking. > > However, if you were to manage landing the container & removing it from the water(major challenge), I would recommend that the container "fall open" during salvage & that you loot the contents. LOL > > The worst part about containers/logs is that the owners are not liable for damages to your vessel if you hit them, yet, taking possession without following the correct course of action can lead to being charged with theft. Go figure. > > Yes, there are many containers bobbing about the world's oceans, and many more which have already sank. When a container-ship loses some of it's cargo, everyone looks the other way. I watched a heavily-laden Maersk ship drop more than a couple of dozen containers just outside of the port of Kaohsiung, Taiwan. The ship continued on it's way. I didn't see any salvage operation taking place over the next few days, so I assume the "pirates" must have picked them up at night. > > Regards, > Mike > > > seeratlas wrote: > > I keep seeing reports of '1000's of containers lost at sea' but I was > wondering just how many are actually out there. Seems to me that a > lot of the 'missing at sea' containers are probably helped along to be > 'missing at the dock' by some more shady members of the various > longshoremen's unions around the ports of the globe. After all, its > 'tradition' hehehe. > > However, assuming some of them are actually hitting the water, has > anyone on this board ever seen one? I never have, tho my horizontal > 'depth sounders' caused me to detour around something big floating in > the water off Baranoff one night..Wasn't picked up by radar so it was > low. I know Brent said one of his boats hit one somewhere but I don't > remember if he was on the boat at the time or not. > > The reason I ask is that isn't the law of the sea a variation of > 'finder's keepers'? I wonder how hard it would be to attempt a > salvage? First, if its anywhere near shore, (unlikely) maybe you > could try and tow it in. Alternatively, ,,,, > > We 4x4'rs routinely carry 20k lb 'nylon tow straps which are pretty > inexpensive. With a compressor on board and say 3 or 4 of those > straps and some 6 or 8 inflatable salvage bags, assuming a quiet sea > it seems to me that you could stabilize the container and raise it so > whatever surface is towards the top would be a few inches up to a foot > or so clear of the water. Now, if you rig all that up and the sea > cooperated, either having a portable cutting rig on board (which I > have) or running some > longish cables out of a porthole from one of Brent's alternator arc > welders.(which i also plan to have...hehehe) why couldn't you cut a > hole in the top of the container and see what's in there? If it's got > some water in it, a hose hooked to a pump could raise it even more > while you're investigating or at least slow the water ingress once you > pop the top so to speak. > > All you'd have to do is hit one with say a few pallets of brand new > laptop computers on board, and the whole undertaking would be, well, a > new version of finding 'almost buried' treasure- well worth the effort > LOL assuming you have some room on your ship to stack 40 or 50 of em > in there hehehehe. > > The inflatable bags (they look like ballons underwater when inflated) > are easy to make or buy and a variety could be carried on board for a > number of reasons especially for those who scuba dive. A simple > Hookah rig using one of the new oiless compressors available anywhere > for very little money could be rigged up to handle the filling of the > bags and provide air for the 'salvag'or' :) etc. > > While not risk free, if the container isn't leaking and the seas are > quiet I would think it possible to attempt a salvage with acceptable > degrees of risk. > > What am I missing here? Think of all the neat stuff you might find > inside a container? :) Course I'd probably find one full of guano or > something LOL. > > Lastly, yeah I can think of a thousand things that could go wrong, > but, seems if you thought it through and were very careful about not > entering the container until you were sure everything was stable etc. > etc. etc. that it might prove a profitable enterprise. :) To find em > I guess you'd wait till a big storm has come thru and established > shipping lane and then turn on the sonar and go hunting :) hehehe > > it would be dead easy to rig a pole off the transom or stem with a > horizontally mounted transducer run to a powerful fishfinder or depth > sounder. The pole could even be rotated back and forth thru 120 > degrees or so to 'scan' for any big metal thing floating near the > surface :) > > whatcha think? at least the idea is fun to consider :) > > seer > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > Get unlimited calls to > > U.S./Canada > > > --------------------------------- > Yahoo! Groups Links > > To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/ > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > > > > --------------------------------- > Post your free ad now! Yahoo! Canada Personals > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor Get unlimited calls to U.S./Canada --------------------------------- Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. --------------------------------- Post your free ad now! Yahoo! Canada Personals [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]| 6086|6073|2004-11-01 19:04:00|seeratlas|Re: Containers and things that go 'bump' in the night..|If we ever get a chance to get together, my boat or yours :) I'll tell you some stories over a good bottle of singlemalt that will curl your hair. The chinese are a very interesting race. Their culture is extremely stratified and nowhere more so than with the former warlords who fled china and mao to take up residence on Formosa. There is a hidden/privileged world there that is beyond belief, almost like walking thru the fabled looking glass and going back in time a thousand years..Someday, maybe out in the middle of the pacific somewhere, I'll get the urge to write a book about it. seer --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, fmichael graham wrote: > Seer: > It's a different place, isn't it? Traffic police with Mac-10s slung over their shoulders, golf memberships@ 1 million per(I can't remember if it was NTD or USD), the Chinese Navy doing sail-pasts every 6 months, or so... > > What brought you to the ugliest place in Asia? (Bangladesh excepted) > Let me guess, ESL? no. Engineer? perhaps. Ship building? yeah, that's it, right? Or, were you travelling through Asia & tripped over Taiwan by mistake? Hey, if you want a used scooter, that's the place to go! > > You know, if one were to be marooned on a desert island & have the knowledge to build one of Brent's designs, all he/she would need would be a couple of containers(one with a motor-generator & some fuel & welding rods inside), and escape - if wanted - would be at hand! oh, yeah, and a pair of those custom "Ben fenders", for comfort. > > I'm beginning to think that we both - as with Ben - have too much time on our hands. (Which, is a very good thing, indeed!) > Take care, > Mike > > seeratlas wrote: > > Ahhh, > Thanks for the info :) > So, Kaohsiung eh? That sounds like an interesting story:) > One of my best stories is how I once played golf with the commander of > the island's armed forces in Kaohsiung (I lost, on purpose hehehe, we > were escorted down the fairways by spec forces types in full combat > gear and armed to the teeth. You'd have lost too LOL). > > Now, I wonder if the Pirates of Vancouver are workin off the San Juan > de Fuca......Maybe Brent can build his boats so cheap cause he's using > 40 foot plates off 'homeless' containers!@!!!! > > rflmao > > seer > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, fmichael graham > wrote: > > Seer: > > Basically, you can take possession of a container, for the purpose > of salvage, because it is a hazard to navigation. However, you can > only place a salvage lien on the container & it's contents - it isn't > exactly "finders-keepers". If, however, the "owner" does not wish to > pay the cost of the salvage operation within a certain time period, > you petition for the container/contents to displace the salvage costs. > You wouldn't be wise to try to tow a container in, unless weather, sea > state & distance were minimal and, even then, it would be a major > undertaking. > > > > However, if you were to manage landing the container & removing it > from the water(major challenge), I would recommend that the container > "fall open" during salvage & that you loot the contents. LOL > > > > The worst part about containers/logs is that the owners are not > liable for damages to your vessel if you hit them, yet, taking > possession without following the correct course of action can lead to > being charged with theft. Go figure. > > > > Yes, there are many containers bobbing about the world's oceans, and > many more which have already sank. When a container-ship loses some of > it's cargo, everyone looks the other way. I watched a heavily-laden > Maersk ship drop more than a couple of dozen containers just outside > of the port of Kaohsiung, Taiwan. The ship continued on it's way. I > didn't see any salvage operation taking place over the next few days, > so I assume the "pirates" must have picked them up at night. > > > > Regards, > > Mike > > > > > > seeratlas wrote: > > > > I keep seeing reports of '1000's of containers lost at sea' but I was > > wondering just how many are actually out there. Seems to me that a > > lot of the 'missing at sea' containers are probably helped along to be > > 'missing at the dock' by some more shady members of the various > > longshoremen's unions around the ports of the globe. After all, its > > 'tradition' hehehe. > > > > However, assuming some of them are actually hitting the water, has > > anyone on this board ever seen one? I never have, tho my horizontal > > 'depth sounders' caused me to detour around something big floating in > > the water off Baranoff one night..Wasn't picked up by radar so it was > > low. I know Brent said one of his boats hit one somewhere but I don't > > remember if he was on the boat at the time or not. > > > > The reason I ask is that isn't the law of the sea a variation of > > 'finder's keepers'? I wonder how hard it would be to attempt a > > salvage? First, if its anywhere near shore, (unlikely) maybe you > > could try and tow it in. Alternatively, ,,,, > > > > We 4x4'rs routinely carry 20k lb 'nylon tow straps which are pretty > > inexpensive. With a compressor on board and say 3 or 4 of those > > straps and some 6 or 8 inflatable salvage bags, assuming a quiet sea > > it seems to me that you could stabilize the container and raise it so > > whatever surface is towards the top would be a few inches up to a foot > > or so clear of the water. Now, if you rig all that up and the sea > > cooperated, either having a portable cutting rig on board (which I > > have) or running some > > longish cables out of a porthole from one of Brent's alternator arc > > welders.(which i also plan to have...hehehe) why couldn't you cut a > > hole in the top of the container and see what's in there? If it's got > > some water in it, a hose hooked to a pump could raise it even more > > while you're investigating or at least slow the water ingress once you > > pop the top so to speak. > > > > All you'd have to do is hit one with say a few pallets of brand new > > laptop computers on board, and the whole undertaking would be, well, a > > new version of finding 'almost buried' treasure- well worth the effort > > LOL assuming you have some room on your ship to stack 40 or 50 of em > > in there hehehehe. > > > > The inflatable bags (they look like ballons underwater when inflated) > > are easy to make or buy and a variety could be carried on board for a > > number of reasons especially for those who scuba dive. A simple > > Hookah rig using one of the new oiless compressors available anywhere > > for very little money could be rigged up to handle the filling of the > > bags and provide air for the 'salvag'or' :) etc. > > > > While not risk free, if the container isn't leaking and the seas are > > quiet I would think it possible to attempt a salvage with acceptable > > degrees of risk. > > > > What am I missing here? Think of all the neat stuff you might find > > inside a container? :) Course I'd probably find one full of guano or > > something LOL. > > > > Lastly, yeah I can think of a thousand things that could go wrong, > > but, seems if you thought it through and were very careful about not > > entering the container until you were sure everything was stable etc. > > etc. etc. that it might prove a profitable enterprise. :) To find em > > I guess you'd wait till a big storm has come thru and established > > shipping lane and then turn on the sonar and go hunting :) hehehe > > > > it would be dead easy to rig a pole off the transom or stem with a > > horizontally mounted transducer run to a powerful fishfinder or depth > > sounder. The pole could even be rotated back and forth thru 120 > > degrees or so to 'scan' for any big metal thing floating near the > > surface :) > > > > whatcha think? at least the idea is fun to consider :) > > > > seer > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > Get unlimited calls to > > > > U.S./Canada > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > To visit your group on the web, go to: > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/ > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > Post your free ad now! Yahoo! Canada Personals > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > Get unlimited calls to > > U.S./Canada > > > --------------------------------- > Yahoo! Groups Links > > To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/ > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > > > > --------------------------------- > Post your free ad now! Yahoo! Canada Personals > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 6087|6073|2004-11-01 20:40:46|Gary H. Lucas|Re: Containers and things that go 'bump' in the night..|The number I have seen published in a professional mariners magazine was that approximately 1/10 of 1% of all shipping containers are lost overboard each year. Sounds like very little, until you realize there are some 100 million in use, and that represents 100,000 a year! I've often wondered how many are in the HUGE pile at Port Newark in NJ. They claim the pile is getting bigger and bigger because we import so much and the value of the containers is so low now that it does not pay to ship them back empty. Gary H. Lucas ----- Original Message ----- From: "seeratlas" To: Sent: Monday, November 01, 2004 2:01 PM Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Containers and things that go 'bump' in the night.. > > > -After I wrote that, I did a search and came up with the maritime > casualty pages. They claim something like 10,000 containers a year? > Man that's a lot. AND , from the reports some of these containers > float around for weeks. On the other hand, not all of em have > 'goodies' LOL, seems that they are now shipping explosives and > hazardous chemicals in them too --- that would be a REAL bummer to > start flame cutting one of those !!! > > I came across those Nike shoes and duckies references too. > Oh for a container coming in from japan with a load of Honda > motorcycle crates or maybe Yamaha outboards :) heheheh. > One thing I did read that was good was that electronics equipt comes > packaged in plastic so would withstand any water intrusion longer and > is more likely to have a better sealed container. > > For a guy with a lot of time on his hands would be a riot to plot the > storms, ship tracks and currents. One other interesting thing, these > ships report when they lose containers over the side so with good > commo, you'd get a heads up on when the stuff hit the drink. > > I think I've been pent up on land too long LOL. > > seer > > PS. hmmm tho the way I have my schooner lazarette designed, I could > stick a couple of mopeds in there....hmmmm LOL. > > > -- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Hallman wrote: > > > However, assuming some of them are actually hitting the water, has > > > anyone on this board ever seen one? > > > > Well counting the Nike Shoes in 1982, and the Rubber Duckies in 1992 > > there were approximatley 20 containers involved. 1,000's? it is hard > > to believe. > > Some of them might sink too. > > > > http://tinyurl.com/4ou79 > > > > How does your horizontal depth sounder work? Don't you get a > > lot of false positives? > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > | 6088|6088|2004-11-01 22:51:31|SHANE ROTHWELL|Re: containers at sea|Seer, unless the contents of the container provide floatation it wont float. containers have about 2" timber planking in the bottom of them & sealing is not really a concern. I know 2 guys who have hit containers. one rode over it (in a steelie), the other, also in a steelie, was sunk & in the h2o in under a minute off east coast Oz in mid 1982. guess he just found the right shaped can opener... Cheers, Shane ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca| 6089|6089|2004-11-02 00:08:06|bilgekeeldave|Containers lost at sea|I have worked as a ships officer on large containerships for the last 20 years. I have not seen any containers lost overboard, on the ships on which I have been a crewmember. I have, however, seen containers ripped open by the sea and the contents strewn on deck and washed overboard, onions once and hides another time. That is not to say that shipping containers are not ever lost, but it is more like .005%, rather than ten percent, of containers that are shipped. Here is a link to an article about this subject: http://www.veromarine.co.nz/dirvz/marine/marine.nsf/Content/PhotoFeat ure0007 Dave| 6090|6089|2004-11-02 02:21:19|Ben Tucker|Re: Containers lost at sea|Hi all, A very interesting article, I worked on tbe big box boats (P&O Nedlloyd) for six years, During that time in a fleet of 25-35 ships no containers were lost, athough two stacks of boxes collapsed inward (faulty lashing rods?), I have heard stories of other companies losing boxes due to them not being properly lashed but only second or thirdhand. In our company if a box was lost for this reason and I had signed them off as being lashed properly then I lost my job!! we wouldn't sail until all Boxes had been checked and each Bay signed for. Kiahosung in Taiwan was an 'interesting' port, Busan in korea even more so!! good memories! Dave, were those hides strewn over the deck the usual smelly ones pickled in brine that dripped and stank out the whole ship (no regular containers are watertight in the least!). we used to pick up onions in tassie, millions of the bloody boxes all needing the fans plugging in, and then unplugging again in each port on the NZ coast. cheers Ben Ps Bens 'photos' reminded me of what i'd rather have in my hands than spare time!| 6091|22|2004-11-02 02:47:18|origamiboats@yahoogroups.com|New file uploaded to origamiboats |Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the origamiboats group. File : /Containers/containerfun1.jpg Uploaded by : ben_azo Description : You can access this file at the URL: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/files/Containers/containerfun1.jpg To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit: http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files Regards, ben_azo | 6092|22|2004-11-02 02:54:24|origamiboats@yahoogroups.com|New file uploaded to origamiboats |Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the origamiboats group. File : /Containers/containerfun3.jpg Uploaded by : ben_azo Description : on the water :-) containerliving You can access this file at the URL: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/files/Containers/containerfun3.jpg To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit: http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files Regards, ben_azo | 6093|22|2004-11-02 02:55:39|origamiboats@yahoogroups.com|New file uploaded to origamiboats |Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the origamiboats group. File : /Containers/Boxcat1.jpg Uploaded by : ben_azo Description : use your imagination You can access this file at the URL: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/files/Containers/Boxcat1.jpg To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit: http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files Regards, ben_azo | 6094|22|2004-11-02 03:17:00|origamiboats@yahoogroups.com|New file uploaded to origamiboats |Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the origamiboats group. File : /Containers/Husbat5.jpg Uploaded by : ben_azo Description : Cabane au Canada You can access this file at the URL: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/files/Containers/Husbat5.jpg To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit: http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files Regards, ben_azo | 6095|6095|2004-11-02 03:17:20|Puck III|Containerfun|Seer , my imagination has no limit , why did you bring up that container topic so that I had to make some post's :-) , lets go back to Origami ; I could design you a nice origami catt hull and on top of that deck you could build ( in a container ???? ) " une Cabane au Canada " , we could adapt the design to fit in all suroundings :-) I am allready dreaming of a " Tropical Cabana " just to show you how the Canada version will look I'll post a pic in the Containerfun File :-) Webmaster please feel free to dump the complete Folder in the Bin , cause FUN is its only goal . Have fun Seer , I 'll look for the Tropical version :-) Naughty Old Belgian Ben :-)| 6096|6096|2004-11-02 04:28:46|Gerd|ABS guides?|Anybody has exoerience with the ABS guides? I had a look at their catalogue at https://eagle.onlineinventorysystem.com/Clients/ABS/ELF1- 5.nsf/Catalog?openForm and found only two publications that seem to concern yachts: - Motor Pleasure Yachts - Offshore Racing Yachts (over 60 something feet...) did I miss somthing? What is there that would apply for us? Anybody know of any other places where other rules might be found (lloyds, veritas, Europeean RC...) Any pointers welcome ;-) Gerd The YAGO project at http://www.justmueller.com/boats| 6097|6096|2004-11-02 08:31:49|Gerd|Re: ABS guides?|In case somebody is interested in European Rules & Regs: - Germanischer Lloyd (in english) at http://www.gl- group.com/start.htm - Recreational Craft Directive at http://www.rsg.be/ - after consultation of the above: http://www.aspirin.com Gerd The Yago Project at ://www.justmueller.com/boats| 6098|6096|2004-11-02 09:19:29|edward_stoneuk|Re: ABS guides?|Gerd, If you Google RCD RYA, you will be led to info on the RCD. The Royal Yacht Association (RYA) publish a CD with all the RCD builders info on it. I know a man who said it cost him about GBP 4 000 to get approval for his one off build. Regards, Ted| 6099|6089|2004-11-02 10:22:40|bilgekeeldave|Re: Containers lost at sea|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Ben Tucker" wrote: > > > Dave, were those hides strewn over the deck the usual smelly ones > pickled in brine that dripped and stank out the whole ship (no > regular containers are watertight in the least!). Yes, exactly! Nasty foul smelling things, those hides. A shipmate once told me that he was on a ship that had a container of beer break open, that would be real nice! Dave| 6100|6073|2004-11-02 13:01:49|Bruce Hallman|Re: Containers and things that go 'bump' in the night..|seeratlaswrote: > I never have, tho my horizontal > 'depth sounders' caused me to detour > around something big floating in > the water off Baranoff one night.. Could it have been a whale?| 6101|6073|2004-11-02 13:48:07|seeratlas|Re: Containers and things that go 'bump' in the night..|re whale? I suppose its possible but it wasn't moving and the signal was very strong. Tho, I did see something on one of the commercial marine sites where super tanker showed up somewhere in the northeast with a 60 plus foot dead finback draped over its bow bulb....whale could have been sleeping not to have even tried to get out of the way... seer --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Hallman wrote: > seeratlaswrote: > > I never have, tho my horizontal > > 'depth sounders' caused me to detour > > around something big floating in > > the water off Baranoff one night.. > > Could it have been a whale? | 6102|6102|2004-11-02 14:06:50|seeratlas|So...What's shakin in Vancouver? :)|Was that an earthquake or what? seer| 6103|6102|2004-11-02 14:35:31|jumpaltair|Re: So...What's shakin in Vancouver? :)|Actually...yeah. It was an earthquake. Peter "Earth shudders beneath Pacific west of Vancouver Island VANCOUVER (CP) - The earth moved underneath the Pacific Ocean west of Vancouver Island early Tuesday. A series of earthquakes was recorded by Canadian and U.S. seismologists, about 245 kilometres west of Ucluelet. The Pacific Geoscience Centre north of Victoria recorded a magnitude of 5.6 for the largest shaker just after 2 a.m. The U.S. National Earthquake Information Centre had a reading of magnitude 6.5. Seismologists said the smaller quakes would not have been felt on Vancouver Island but the largest was detected at Alert Bay at the northern tip of the island. There were no reports of damage and none would be expected with the epicentre so far away. --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "seeratlas" wrote: > > Was that an earthquake or what? > > seer | 6104|6104|2004-11-02 15:01:47|autos_tr|IF YOU WANT TO SELL BOATS, BOAT PARTS and GEAR|List All your stuff here with free Basic listing and AUTO-RELIST UNTIL SOLD option and relax. http://www.sellatonce.com/portal/boats.htm Fred| 6105|6105|2004-11-02 15:39:52|Gary|Hand Helds|About to put up the mast and was wondering about running wires for VHF, GPS etc up the mast or just using handhelds given current high state of hand held tech. Thanks... Gary| 6106|6105|2004-11-02 16:06:47|seeratlas|Re: Hand Helds|If you have any aspirations of one day adding SSB and/or Ham for email/weather and long distance commo, you might put a pair of heavy duty insulations in the backstay before you put it up. A telephone call to the local marine radio shop will garner the information you want on length of wire to be insulated etc. Most VHS and GPS these days are putting antennae on a mast of some kind on the back of the boat. Depending on where you are going to mount your radar if you're going that way, Gord and others have built radar arches and set them up on the stern. If well designed and proportioned they make good places for attaching awnings etc. in the north and bimini's /solar panels if you're heading south. all of that in addtion to the radar and antennae. For coastal cruising, you're right, had to beat the handhelds but even they will benefit from an external antenna if you want to use them in the boat :) (these are steel after all :) seer any radio experts out there? --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Gary" wrote: > > About to put up the mast and was wondering about running wires for > VHF, GPS etc up the mast or just using handhelds given current high > state of hand held tech. > > > Thanks... Gary | 6107|6096|2004-11-02 16:54:12|Gerd|Re: ABS guides?|Thanks Ted - actually, in my second mail is the link to the central European Group that seems to combine/help with or whatever the national institutions.. all the stuff is there free for download. Still a short overview of teh most imporatant points in "human readable language" would be nice. No, I do not want to comply (does not seem to be a problem as long as you do not sell within 5 years), simply wanted to check out roughly if Yago fits in any slots... ;-) Gerd --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "edward_stoneuk" wrote: > > Gerd, > If you Google RCD RYA, you will be led to info on the RCD. The Royal > Yacht Association (RYA) publish a CD with all the RCD builders info > on it. I know a man who said it cost him about GBP 4 000 to get > approval for his one off build. > Regards, > Ted | 6108|6095|2004-11-02 17:09:13|Mike|Re: Containerfun|Ben: More interesting stuff(your container photos). I designed a few different origamicontainer models with the plan to build one on my property. When I looked at the prices for used containers in B.C., however, I decided that wood was a cheaper route.(20'container = $1,800 - $2,300, 40' = $3,500 - $3,800). In the Philippines, many fab. shops build custom cars/trucks/buses, using surplus powertrain parts from Japan & building frame, body, and interiors. If one had the time & interest, he/she could write a book on "101 things to do with a used shipping container", including plans. Then, he/she could give a free copy to the guy in his/her group who came up with the idea!?(probably, the laziest thought that I've had all day) How about, an origami-cat, made out of used shipping containers? Regards, Mike --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III" wrote: > > Seer , my imagination has no limit , > why did you bring up that container topic so that I had > to make some post's :-) , > lets go back to Origami ; > I could design you a nice origami catt hull and on top > of that deck you could build ( in a container ???? ) > " une Cabane au Canada " , we could adapt the design > to fit in all suroundings :-) > I am allready dreaming of a " Tropical Cabana " > just to show you how the Canada version will look > I'll post a pic in the Containerfun File :-) > Webmaster please feel free to dump the complete Folder > in the Bin , cause FUN is its only goal . > Have fun Seer , I 'll look for the Tropical version :-) > Naughty Old Belgian Ben :-) | 6109|6109|2004-11-02 17:16:42|Mike|How's the boat going, Alex?|Alex: I was hoping to see more construction photos. Is she under-wraps for the winter? Mike| 6110|6089|2004-11-02 20:50:03|Gary H. Lucas|Re: Containers lost at sea|Dave, That wasn't ten percent, it was 1/10th of 1% or 1 in 1000. Gary H. Lucas ----- Original Message ----- From: "bilgekeeldave" To: Sent: Tuesday, November 02, 2004 12:05 AM Subject: [origamiboats] Containers lost at sea > > > I have worked as a ships officer on large containerships for the > last 20 years. I have not seen any containers lost overboard, on the > ships on which I have been a crewmember. I have, however, seen > containers ripped open by the sea and the contents strewn on deck > and washed overboard, onions once and hides another time. That is > not to say that shipping containers are not ever lost, but it is > more like .005%, rather than ten percent, of containers that are > shipped. > > Here is a link to an article about this subject: > > http://www.veromarine.co.nz/dirvz/marine/marine.nsf/Content/PhotoFeat > ure0007 > > Dave > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > | 6111|6073|2004-11-02 21:27:25|brentswain38|Re: Containers and things that go 'bump' in the night..|It's been reported that up to 10,000 go missing every year. I've never seen one, but I met a guy who later lost a fibreglass boat off costa Rica when it hit a container and sank quickly.He quickly decided on a steel boat for his next boat. My Uncle , who was a longshoreman most of his life said that he often saw ships arrive in Vancouver missing containers after a rough passage. Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "seeratlas" wrote: > > I keep seeing reports of '1000's of containers lost at sea' but I was > wondering just how many are actually out there. Seems to me that a > lot of the 'missing at sea' containers are probably helped along to be > 'missing at the dock' by some more shady members of the various > longshoremen's unions around the ports of the globe. After all, its > 'tradition' hehehe. > > However, assuming some of them are actually hitting the water, has > anyone on this board ever seen one? I never have, tho my horizontal > 'depth sounders' caused me to detour around something big floating in > the water off Baranoff one night..Wasn't picked up by radar so it was > low. I know Brent said one of his boats hit one somewhere but I don't > remember if he was on the boat at the time or not. > > The reason I ask is that isn't the law of the sea a variation of > 'finder's keepers'? I wonder how hard it would be to attempt a > salvage? First, if its anywhere near shore, (unlikely) maybe you > could try and tow it in. Alternatively, ,,,, > > We 4x4'rs routinely carry 20k lb 'nylon tow straps which are pretty > inexpensive. With a compressor on board and say 3 or 4 of those > straps and some 6 or 8 inflatable salvage bags, assuming a quiet sea > it seems to me that you could stabilize the container and raise it so > whatever surface is towards the top would be a few inches up to a foot > or so clear of the water. Now, if you rig all that up and the sea > cooperated, either having a portable cutting rig on board (which I > have) or running some > longish cables out of a porthole from one of Brent's alternator arc > welders.(which i also plan to have...hehehe) why couldn't you cut a > hole in the top of the container and see what's in there? If it's got > some water in it, a hose hooked to a pump could raise it even more > while you're investigating or at least slow the water ingress once you > pop the top so to speak. > > All you'd have to do is hit one with say a few pallets of brand new > laptop computers on board, and the whole undertaking would be, well, a > new version of finding 'almost buried' treasure- well worth the effort > LOL assuming you have some room on your ship to stack 40 or 50 of em > in there hehehehe. > > The inflatable bags (they look like ballons underwater when inflated) > are easy to make or buy and a variety could be carried on board for a > number of reasons especially for those who scuba dive. A simple > Hookah rig using one of the new oiless compressors available anywhere > for very little money could be rigged up to handle the filling of the > bags and provide air for the 'salvag'or' :) etc. > > While not risk free, if the container isn't leaking and the seas are > quiet I would think it possible to attempt a salvage with acceptable > degrees of risk. > > What am I missing here? Think of all the neat stuff you might find > inside a container? :) Course I'd probably find one full of guano or > something LOL. > > Lastly, yeah I can think of a thousand things that could go wrong, > but, seems if you thought it through and were very careful about not > entering the container until you were sure everything was stable etc. > etc. etc. that it might prove a profitable enterprise. :) To find em > I guess you'd wait till a big storm has come thru and established > shipping lane and then turn on the sonar and go hunting :) hehehe > > it would be dead easy to rig a pole off the transom or stem with a > horizontally mounted transducer run to a powerful fishfinder or depth > sounder. The pole could even be rotated back and forth thru 120 > degrees or so to 'scan' for any big metal thing floating near the > surface :) > > whatcha think? at least the idea is fun to consider :) > > seer | 6112|6105|2004-11-03 01:58:29|Ben Tucker|Re: Hand Helds|Hi gary, I have had pretty good run with just a handheld gps, The new boat had a fixed unit with an external antenna which is good to use with the larger screen, but not essental. As I am in the dark ages and still steer my boat from outside (when the vane isn't doing the work!) I just stick the handheld on a bracket fixed to the sliding hatch and it has a good veiw of the sky and is easy to read. handhelds without an external antenna work OK down below on a thin glass or wood boat but not on a steel boat unless close to lots of windows, and even then can drop out and lose accuracy. To Get one to work below a freind cut a 1 foot hole in the deck and put a plastic dome over it, the handheld had its top stuck into the dome and worked well and could be read from the chart table. You can also get re-radiating antennas that will rebroadcast the signal to a down below position, so that no plugs are needed. All the handheld VHF's I've used have pretty crap battery life but I guess you could plug them into 12v and run an external antenna, this could provide a pretty good solution but might be more expensive than a fixed Set. Cheers Ben --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Gary" wrote: > > About to put up the mast and was wondering about running wires for > VHF, GPS etc up the mast or just using handhelds given current high > state of hand held tech. > > > Thanks... Gary | 6113|6105|2004-11-03 02:09:45|Ben Tucker|Re: Hand Helds|Hi gary, Forgot to add, I've heard that GPS antennas don't like being stuck up a mast, two much motion for them, I think it confuses the doppler speed and course calculations. Ideally they should have a good allround veiw from 10 degrees above the horizion at all heel angles, the best place is on the stern rail or targa bar but ontop of a pilot house is OK and more secure, they can even be hidden in a light fibreglass or wood box (ie dorade box) to reduce the chances of them being dammaged. Think about having a VHF that will work if you lose the rig, Ie a spare antenna, handheld or an antenna mounted on the stern. Cheers Ben| 6114|6089|2004-11-03 02:20:36|Ben Tucker|Re: Containers lost at sea|> Yes, exactly! Nasty foul smelling things, those hides. > > A shipmate once told me that he was on a ship that had a container > of beer break open, that would be real nice! > > Dave Hi dave, I thought we were the only poor bastards having to lug those hides around, the old Encounter Bay class ships were due for the scrapyards so they didn't mind the brine rotting the ships out, they refused to put them on the new ships. We had the beer store collapse in a big blow, we had lots of fun putting it all back in order! we decided most of the cans were to badly dammaged to be restowed so they had to be drunk! Cheers Ben| 6115|6105|2004-11-03 04:21:05|Sailor|Re: Hand Helds|My Garmin GPSIII is powered by batteries and ship or car power. It is also wired directly to the laptop serial port. One location for cables and data is: http://pfranc.com/ All the best eb ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ben Tucker" To: Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 2004 1:58 AM Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Hand Helds > > > Hi gary, > > I have had pretty good run with just a handheld gps, The new boat had > a fixed unit with an external antenna which is good to use with the > larger screen, but not essental. As I am in the dark ages and still > steer my boat from outside (when the vane isn't doing the work!) I > just stick the handheld on a bracket fixed to the sliding hatch and > it has a good veiw of the sky and is easy to read. > > handhelds without an external antenna work OK down below on a thin > glass or wood boat but not on a steel boat unless close to lots of > windows, and even then can drop out and lose accuracy. > To Get one to work below a freind cut a 1 foot hole in the deck and > put a plastic dome over it, the handheld had its top stuck into the > dome and worked well and could be read from the chart table. > > You can also get re-radiating antennas that will rebroadcast the > signal to a down below position, so that no plugs are needed. > > All the handheld VHF's I've used have pretty crap battery life but I > guess you could plug them into 12v and run an external antenna, this > could provide a pretty good solution but might be more expensive than > a fixed Set. > > Cheers > > Ben > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Gary" wrote: > > > > About to put up the mast and was wondering about running wires for > > VHF, GPS etc up the mast or just using handhelds given current high > > state of hand held tech. > > > > > > Thanks... Gary > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > | 6116|6041|2004-11-03 06:42:12|denis buggy|Re: Determining Engine Usability|dear Michael talk to your local diesel shop and give them the engine type and " all " the numbers on the injector pump( both injector pump housing and the larger governor housing on inline pumps at the rear ) and give details of any equipment connected to the throttle and any details of any item if any connected to the air pipe going to the turbo from the pump they will then be able to tell you what governor is fitted to the injector pump and how it will behave most should not need any modification as they will be under load most of the time , many problems are caused by the fitting of a throttle at an angle which its movement will be multiplied by engine movement on its mountings . regards Denis ----- Original Message ----- From: RICHARD KOKEMOOR To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, October 31, 2004 11:52 PM Subject: [origamiboats] Determining Engine Usability Michael Casling wrote: "Motors for generating run at a multiple of 60 or they have a very smart computer like the new Honda generators. If the engine has enough torque then 1800 revs is common. My noisy B&S runs at 3600." Some time back a member who identified himself as a diesel mechanic wrote that stationary engines that ran at a constant rpm would have to have their injection pumps reworked before they could be run at variable throttle. No more has been written on this subject. Does anyone know whether this would involve simply removing or defeating some sort of governor, or go so far as to require actually replacing the injector pump? --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete - You start. We finish. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links a.. To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/ b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 6117|6105|2004-11-04 02:52:50|T.H. & V.D. Cain|Re: Hand Helds|any radio experts out there? Not too keen on the "experts" tag. The field of communications and electronics has grown exponentially over the last 40 years. There is now a field of specialisations in 'radio' as there is in consumer electronics etc. Us generalists are a disappearing breed !!!!. Terry (VK4JC) ------------------------------------------------------------- If you have any aspirations of one day adding SSB and/or Ham for email/weather and long distance commo, you might put a pair of heavy duty insulations in the backstay before you put it up. A telephone call to the local marine radio shop will garner the information you want on length of wire to be insulated etc. Most VHS and GPS these days are putting antennae on a mast of some kind on the back of the boat. Depending on where you are going to mount your radar if you're going that way, Gord and others have built radar arches and set them up on the stern. If well designed and proportioned they make good places for attaching awnings etc. in the north and bimini's /solar panels if you're heading south. all of that in addtion to the radar and antennae. For coastal cruising, you're right, had to beat the handhelds but even they will benefit from an external antenna if you want to use them in the boat :) (these are steel after all :) seer any radio experts out there? --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Gary" wrote: > > About to put up the mast and was wondering about running wires for > VHF, GPS etc up the mast or just using handhelds given current high > state of hand held tech. > > > Thanks... Gary ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/YmoolB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links | 6118|6105|2004-11-04 03:00:40|T.H. & V.D. Cain|Re: Hand Helds|Curiouser and curiouser --- that message was sent once only. Terry -----Original Message----- From: T.H. & V.D. Cain [mailto:thcain@...] Sent: Thursday, 4 November 2004 17:18 To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [origamiboats] Re: Hand Helds any radio experts out there? Not too keen on the "experts" tag. The field of communications and electronics has grown exponentially over the last 40 years. There is now a field of specialisations in 'radio' as there is in consumer electronics etc. Us generalists are a disappearing breed !!!!. Terry (VK4JC) ------------------------------------------------------------- If you have any aspirations of one day adding SSB and/or Ham for email/weather and long distance commo, you might put a pair of heavy duty insulations in the backstay before you put it up. A telephone call to the local marine radio shop will garner the information you want on length of wire to be insulated etc. Most VHS and GPS these days are putting antennae on a mast of some kind on the back of the boat. Depending on where you are going to mount your radar if you're going that way, Gord and others have built radar arches and set them up on the stern. If well designed and proportioned they make good places for attaching awnings etc. in the north and bimini's /solar panels if you're heading south. all of that in addtion to the radar and antennae. For coastal cruising, you're right, had to beat the handhelds but even they will benefit from an external antenna if you want to use them in the boat :) (these are steel after all :) seer any radio experts out there? --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Gary" wrote: > > About to put up the mast and was wondering about running wires for > VHF, GPS etc up the mast or just using handhelds given current high > state of hand held tech. > > > Thanks... Gary ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/YmoolB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links | 6119|6105|2004-11-04 07:14:01|sae140|Re: Hand Helds|It's happened to me a few times - with a serious loss of street cred It might be worth mentioning that if you have a handheld with a detachable aerial (45XL,12XL etc), then you don't really need to buy an additional external aerial, as you can simply insert a length of coax between the gps unit and the existing gizmo. Recommend you keep the co-ax less than 12 feet, and RG59 cable is preferred, but RG58 (ethernet cable) works ok in practice. Signal loss is negligible. Colin --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "T.H. & V.D. Cain" wrote: > Curiouser and curiouser --- that message was sent once only. > Terry > > -----Original Message----- > From: T.H. & V.D. Cain [mailto:thcain@o...] > Sent: Thursday, 4 November 2004 17:18 > To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [origamiboats] Re: Hand Helds > > > any radio experts out there? > > > Not too keen on the "experts" tag. The field of communications and > electronics has grown exponentially over the last 40 years. > There is now a field of specialisations in 'radio' as there is in consumer > electronics etc. > Us generalists are a disappearing breed !!!!. > Terry (VK4JC) > ------------------------------------------------------------- > If you have any aspirations of one day adding SSB and/or Ham for > email/weather and long distance commo, you might put a pair of heavy duty > insulations in the backstay before you put it up. A telephone call to the > local marine radio shop will garner the information you want on length of > wire to be insulated etc. Most VHS and GPS these days are putting antennae > on a mast of some kind on the back of the boat. Depending on where you are > going to mount your radar if you're going that way, Gord and others have > built radar arches and set them up on the stern. If well designed and > proportioned they make good places for attaching awnings etc. in the north > and bimini's /solar panels if you're heading south. all of that in addtion > to the radar and antennae. > For coastal cruising, you're right, had to beat the handhelds but even they > will benefit from an external antenna if you want to use them in the boat :) > (these are steel after all :) > seer > any radio experts out there? > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Gary" wrote: > > > > About to put up the mast and was wondering about running wires for > > VHF, GPS etc up the mast or just using handhelds given current high > > state of hand held tech. > > > > > > Thanks... Gary > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -------------------- ~--> Make > a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up > Blocker. Get it for free! > http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/YmoolB/TM > -------------------------------------------------------------------- ~-> > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Yahoo! Groups Links | 6120|6120|2004-11-04 07:38:05|seeratlas|Crazy Bow Thruster Idea|Now I know most people are going to wonder, what's he want a thruster for on a 40 ft. boat? Well, I plan on doing some canal work and from what I read, being able to keep control of the bow inside the locks with all the water swirling around, is a 'good' thing, specially for a singlehander. sooo... I wanted to run an idea past the group. Watching the jet ski's scream around the lakes, and having once tried to anchor (just barely successfully) the business end of a firehose, I wonder if I could rig a big fire pump to the engine, route a pipe thru the bilge to the forepeak, where it would enter a vertical pipe within a 'stand pipe' open to the bottom of the hull. Seems to me it would be simple to rig a kind of reverse periscope, with some rack and pinion or other mechanism to raise and lower the inside pipe so it would be either flush or below the hull. Cutting a hole /bevel in the side of the 'jet pipe' and welding say a 45 degree angled flat piece inside so as to divert the water from verticle to horizontal, seems to me that I'd have the following: Use whatever mechanism to lower the 'jet pipe' some 6 to 8 inches below the hull, then use a quadrant or other setup to turn it around say 270 degrees? Throw a valve off the engine fire pump, and put out a pretty damned substantial jet of water, in any direction I want. I would think a three or 4" pipe would flow enough really push the bow of the boat around from one side to the other, or even fore and aft and inbetween. The attraction is that there are no motors or moving props or blades, no threat of leak into the boat with the stand pipe coming up to near the deck; the bottom of the 'jet pipe' could be shaped so that when drawn up, the bottom is flush and fair with the hull so as to minimize any resistance thru the water; and, probably not a bad idea to have a big-azz'd engine driven pump on board anyway.:) With the appropriate valves, it could be, 1. hell of an emergency bilge pump, 2. fire hose pump to the deck, 3. could have an outlet forward where it would hit the anchor chain/line/rode before it got onto the boat- thus blasting off any mud and gunk before bringing it aboard, 4. diverted to a deck mounted 'water cannon' could be used for repelling would be boarders (lol) serious deck washdowns, and even those odd 'right of way' discussions that occur every now and then ! LOL, say for the 'boat wars' that are part and parcel of every "Newport/Ensenada" race LOL. Seriously tho, I think this idea would work with just a little planning in running a main trunk pipe forward with selection valves at each end. Positive up/down could be done with a simple hinged lever articulated by morse cable, and horizontal 'aiming' perhaps by a quadrant set up using say a stainless bicycle sprocket or another cable. It would only have to go up and down the distance you needed to clear the bottom of the hull to effectively use the jet. Seems that once set up, the reliability factor would be 'high' as its so simple, plus, the additional use of the pump would ensure it was working properly when needed as an emergency powered bilge pump. The stand pipe could be solidly attached to the forepeak watertight bulkhead. Would be nice to be able to hold the bow steady with water swirling in from the locks...; to be able to hold the bow up to the dock with a slight adverse wind or current, and to be able to spin the boat around essentially in its own length when manuevering in tight quarters under power. Anyway, whatcha think? seer| 6121|6105|2004-11-04 07:44:18|seeratlas|Re: Hand Helds|Terry, Any good reason I can't use a regular ham unit to access SSB? I havn't done any Ham work in years and have forgotten most everything I once knew, but don't the std. Ham units cover those same frequencies? Seer :) (WB60XX) -- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "T.H. & V.D. Cain" wrote: > any radio experts out there? > > > Not too keen on the "experts" tag. The field of communications and > electronics has grown exponentially over the last 40 years. > There is now a field of specialisations in 'radio' as there is in consumer > electronics etc. > Us generalists are a disappearing breed !!!!. > Terry (VK4JC) > ------------------------------------------------------------- > If you have any aspirations of one day adding SSB and/or Ham for > email/weather and long distance commo, you might put a pair of heavy duty > insulations in the backstay before you put it up. A telephone call to the > local marine radio shop will garner the information you want on length of > wire to be insulated etc. Most VHS and GPS these days are putting antennae > on a mast of some kind on the back of the boat. Depending on where you are > going to mount your radar if you're going that way, Gord and others have > built radar arches and set them up on the stern. If well designed and > proportioned they make good places for attaching awnings etc. in the north > and bimini's /solar panels if you're heading south. all of that in addtion > to the radar and antennae. > For coastal cruising, you're right, had to beat the handhelds but even they > will benefit from an external antenna if you want to use them in the boat :) > (these are steel after all :) > seer > any radio experts out there? > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Gary" wrote: > > > > About to put up the mast and was wondering about running wires for > > VHF, GPS etc up the mast or just using handhelds given current high > > state of hand held tech. > > > > > > Thanks... Gary > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Make > a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up > Blocker. Get it for free! > http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/YmoolB/TM > --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Yahoo! Groups Links | 6122|6105|2004-11-04 09:10:39|Ben Tucker|Re: Hand Helds|hi, i'm no 'expert' but have seen plenty of boats with ham sets, Have heard that some of them need to be "unlocked" to transmit on the marine bands, not to sure whats involved in doing this. Lots Of NZ boats buy a crap Crystal set to get a call sign but use the ham as there main set normally, they just hide the ham when the inspector comes along. The old GPS's with the detachible antenas are great but are getting less common . The Trade of is that when you tally up the cost of a handheld with 12V kit/ data cable, bracket and external antenna It is often quite close to the cost of a good fixed unit with a bigger screen and bigger buttons, so I guess its kind of horses for courses. Make sure you can link your main GPS to a computer, Lots of good software free to run all sorts of electronic charts, and upload/download waypoints. cheers Ben| 6123|6105|2004-11-04 09:14:02|sae140|Re: Hand Helds|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "sae140" wrote: > It might be worth mentioning that if you have a handheld with a > detachable aerial (45XL,12XL etc), then you don't really need to > buy an additional external aerial ... Whoops - just realised that unlike the 45XL, II, III etc, the 12XL doesn't have a detachable aerial ... C| 6124|6124|2004-11-04 21:35:11|prairiemaidca|Zincs|Hi All We're looking for information on how many and the placement of zincs for our 36' Brent Swain fin keel. Thanks. Martin and Betty (Prairie Maid)| 6125|6125|2004-11-05 03:58:50|Gerd|Adrenalin|Winters coming, the season for the armchair sailor. Wanna get some real thrills, point your browsers at http://www.vendeeglobe.org/ the site of the Vendee Globe race, single handed non stop round the world, start is this sunday. Go to the video page at http://www.vendeeglobe.org/fr/videos and check out the short clips for each boat, very impressive. BTW, you might notice that most of the boats now have lateral daggerboards, justs like Yago ;-) Actually they need them in addition to their canting keels, that they will pivot to leeward, which decreases their lateral area. By now, they have just the ballast-bulb hanging on very thin and keels, and get most their hydrodynamic effects from the optimized boards. Some of the bords are also adjustable or autoadjustinging , so as to get more lift I believe, at least that's what I have seen on some mini 650. Enjoy ;-) Gerd The YAGO Project at http://www.justmueller.com/boats/| 6126|6125|2004-11-05 05:05:39|Sakari Aaltonen|Re: Adrenalin|On Fri, 5 Nov 2004, Gerd wrote: > > > Winters coming, the season for the armchair sailor. > Wanna get some real thrills, point your browsers at > http://www.vendeeglobe.org/ the site of the Vendee Globe race, > single handed non stop round the world, start is this sunday. Thanks, but I don't think sailing around the world alone is what it used to be (in Joshua Slocum's day, say). I do wonder what happens to these enormous boats after the race... Sakari Aaltonen| 6127|6125|2004-11-05 05:43:01|Gerd|Re: Adrenalin|> I do wonder what happens to these enormous boats after the race... many of them do several races, and come back over the years. Usually the top-skippers get the new budgets, and newcomers will try to pick up a boat that has raced before. For example the boat that Van den Hede entered in the beginning of the nineties, has been in every event since, under different names and with different skippers and is now back with yet another firstimer Karen Leibovici. She's been working her way up from the mini 650. She has not got a chance to win with this old boat, but in this race everybody who goes fast (for the boat he's on) and in one piece will have a good start for the next time. The same boat was also raced by Catherine chabaud and by Isabelle Autissier, and I had the pleasure to go out on it for a testsail many years ago - grrreat! ;-) Gerd The Yago Project at http://www.justmueller.com/boats/| 6128|6128|2004-11-05 08:15:56|eyxssowzhl|lower mortgage payments|hey all I recently re-financed my mortgage for free even though I have BAD credit. They even gave me a great rate! Take a look at this service... http://grealus.com/azwh1 I posted this on origamiboats, if you dont want to be a member anymore just email origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com| 6129|6125|2004-11-05 09:54:23|seeratlas|Re: Adrenalin|In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Gerd" wrote: > > Winters coming, the season for the armchair sailor. BAHHH :) Gerd, come to the Pac Northwest,:) Winter is some of the best sailing we got up here :) course, that assumes you got a Pilot House :) heheheh. Nuttin much better than a good cup of coffee, a little driftwood burning in the firebox, and an empty sea ahead... seer| 6130|6125|2004-11-05 10:39:25|Michael Casling|Re: Adrenalin|On at least one mini 650 the boards are also used to balance the boat for steering. The designer said it took a lot of work to get them in the right place. Michael ----- Original Message ----- From: Gerd To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, November 05, 2004 12:58 AM Subject: [origamiboats] Adrenalin Winters coming, the season for the armchair sailor. Wanna get some real thrills, point your browsers at http://www.vendeeglobe.org/ the site of the Vendee Globe race, single handed non stop round the world, start is this sunday. Go to the video page at http://www.vendeeglobe.org/fr/videos and check out the short clips for each boat, very impressive. BTW, you might notice that most of the boats now have lateral daggerboards, justs like Yago ;-) Actually they need them in addition to their canting keels, that they will pivot to leeward, which decreases their lateral area. By now, they have just the ballast-bulb hanging on very thin and keels, and get most their hydrodynamic effects from the optimized boards. Some of the bords are also adjustable or autoadjustinging , so as to get more lift I believe, at least that's what I have seen on some mini 650. Enjoy ;-) Gerd The YAGO Project at http://www.justmueller.com/boats/ To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links a.. To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/ b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 6131|6125|2004-11-05 12:57:29|Gerd|Re: Adrenalin|> ...their canting keels, that they will pivot to leeward... sorry, that should have been "to windward" of course ;-)| 6132|6105|2004-11-06 00:30:21|T.H. & V.D. Cain|Re: Hand Helds|Seer, Depends on the Tx/Rx in question. The current crop and the older units back as far as 1988 (approx.) use PLL synthesis to generate the frequencies used internally and these types can be "persuaded" to generate the appropriate marine HF output frequencies (if your region uses HF). Techniques for accessing non amateur band frequencies in Tx mode vary from unit to unit, but generally it comes down to links deleted and links added in the units processor board. The RF finals are usually able to operate quite happily in a broadband mode. The old Kenwood 430S was a favourite among licensed amateurs who also owned boats. For VHF there is not likely to be any sound case for using an amateur rig, since the dedicated marine units are inexpensive and simple to use. There is a sound case for becoming a licensed amateur and joining in on one of the many sea-nets which have a good record of service in all sorts of ways, including emergencies. The licence requirements vary from country to country and there are levels or classes of licence as well. It is not too difficult to get into the hobby as you would know --- and the basic electrical knowledge gained in the process is a great help in many ways, especially on a boat when alone without external resources. Most ham units now have a general coverage receiver (500kHz to 30mHz continuous). Most will exceed the legal power output for the marine work unless the operator knows what to do. Naturally, there are some issues relating to approvals and the law. Confiscation of equipment comes to mind! Terry -----Original Message----- From: seeratlas [mailto:seeratlas@...] Sent: Thursday, 4 November 2004 22:14 To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Hand Helds Terry, Any good reason I can't use a regular ham unit to access SSB? I havn't done any Ham work in years and have forgotten most everything I once knew, but don't the std. Ham units cover those same frequencies? Seer :) (WB60XX) -- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "T.H. & V.D. Cain" wrote: > any radio experts out there? > > > Not too keen on the "experts" tag. The field of communications and > electronics has grown exponentially over the last 40 years. > There is now a field of specialisations in 'radio' as there is in consumer > electronics etc. > Us generalists are a disappearing breed !!!!. > Terry (VK4JC) > ------------------------------------------------------------- > If you have any aspirations of one day adding SSB and/or Ham for > email/weather and long distance commo, you might put a pair of heavy duty > insulations in the backstay before you put it up. A telephone call to the > local marine radio shop will garner the information you want on length of > wire to be insulated etc. Most VHS and GPS these days are putting antennae > on a mast of some kind on the back of the boat. Depending on where you are > going to mount your radar if you're going that way, Gord and others have > built radar arches and set them up on the stern. If well designed and > proportioned they make good places for attaching awnings etc. in the north > and bimini's /solar panels if you're heading south. all of that in addtion > to the radar and antennae. > For coastal cruising, you're right, had to beat the handhelds but even they > will benefit from an external antenna if you want to use them in the boat :) > (these are steel after all :) > seer > any radio experts out there? > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Gary" wrote: > > > > About to put up the mast and was wondering about running wires for > > VHF, GPS etc up the mast or just using handhelds given current high > > state of hand held tech. > > > > > > Thanks... Gary > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Make > a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up > Blocker. Get it for free! > http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/YmoolB/TM > --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Yahoo! Groups Links To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links| 6133|6105|2004-11-06 01:16:40|jim_both|Re: Hand Helds|Is a license required to Tx on the high seas on marine SSB frequencies? Who would the licensing authority be? It is a bit different than using Amateur bands, since these are controlled by international treaties. jim_both --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "T.H. & V.D. Cain" wrote: > Seer, > Depends on the Tx/Rx in question. > The current crop and the older units back as far as 1988 (approx.) use PLL > synthesis to generate the frequencies used internally and these types can be > "persuaded" to generate the appropriate marine HF output frequencies (if > your region uses HF). Techniques for accessing non amateur band frequencies > in Tx mode vary from unit to unit, but generally it comes down to links > deleted and links added in the units processor board. The RF finals are > usually able to operate quite happily in a broadband mode. > The old Kenwood 430S was a favourite among licensed amateurs who also owned > boats. > For VHF there is not likely to be any sound case for using an amateur rig, > since the dedicated marine units are inexpensive and simple to use. > There is a sound case for becoming a licensed amateur and joining in on one > of the many sea-nets which have a good record of service in all sorts of > ways, including emergencies. The licence requirements vary from country to > country and there are levels or classes of licence as well. It is not too > difficult to get into the hobby as you would know --- and the basic > electrical knowledge gained in the process is a great help in many ways, > especially on a boat when alone without external resources. > Most ham units now have a general coverage receiver (500kHz to 30mHz > continuous). Most will exceed the legal power output for the marine work > unless the operator knows what to do. > Naturally, there are some issues relating to approvals and the law. > Confiscation of equipment comes to mind! > Terry > -----Original Message----- > From: seeratlas [mailto:seeratlas@y...] > Sent: Thursday, 4 November 2004 22:14 > To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Hand Helds > | 6134|6105|2004-11-06 01:25:26|T.H. & V.D. Cain|Re: Hand Helds|An interesting point about HF outside a country's territorial limits. I don't know how it could be an issue until one used the frequency inside a jurisdiction. There is also the point that any means at one's disposal is to be used in an emergency. There is some degree of order internationally on marine HF frequencies and the allocation of bands for commercial and non-commercial radiation is a result of international agreement (but not everyone complies as can be heard on the HF bands, amateur and other). Terry -----Original Message----- From: jim_both [mailto:jimthom@...] Sent: Saturday, 6 November 2004 15:47 To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Hand Helds Is a license required to Tx on the high seas on marine SSB frequencies? Who would the licensing authority be? It is a bit different than using Amateur bands, since these are controlled by international treaties. jim_both --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "T.H. & V.D. Cain" wrote: > Seer, > Depends on the Tx/Rx in question. > The current crop and the older units back as far as 1988 (approx.) use PLL > synthesis to generate the frequencies used internally and these types can be > "persuaded" to generate the appropriate marine HF output frequencies (if > your region uses HF). Techniques for accessing non amateur band frequencies > in Tx mode vary from unit to unit, but generally it comes down to links > deleted and links added in the units processor board. The RF finals are > usually able to operate quite happily in a broadband mode. > The old Kenwood 430S was a favourite among licensed amateurs who also owned > boats. > For VHF there is not likely to be any sound case for using an amateur rig, > since the dedicated marine units are inexpensive and simple to use. > There is a sound case for becoming a licensed amateur and joining in on one > of the many sea-nets which have a good record of service in all sorts of > ways, including emergencies. The licence requirements vary from country to > country and there are levels or classes of licence as well. It is not too > difficult to get into the hobby as you would know --- and the basic > electrical knowledge gained in the process is a great help in many ways, > especially on a boat when alone without external resources. > Most ham units now have a general coverage receiver (500kHz to 30mHz > continuous). Most will exceed the legal power output for the marine work > unless the operator knows what to do. > Naturally, there are some issues relating to approvals and the law. > Confiscation of equipment comes to mind! > Terry > -----Original Message----- > From: seeratlas [mailto:seeratlas@y...] > Sent: Thursday, 4 November 2004 22:14 > To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Hand Helds > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links| 6135|6105|2004-11-06 14:14:25|fmichael graham|Re: Hand Helds|Jim: I believe that you should be able to find a definitive answer on the IMO(International Maritime Organization) website. My understanding(from my time in navy/coastguard) is that you require; 1) a station license for the radio, 2) a restricted operator certificate. The IMO represents over 160 member countries and is tasked with promoting international standards for the world shipping community, through SOLAS, & various other conventions. In Canada, the DOC(Department of communications) sets the regulations, in the U.S. it is the FCC. A SSB marine radio is definitely worth having for "world voyages". A HAM radio requires a special licence and, as many shore-based individuals monitor marine frequencies, you can often contact a HAM operator on your SSB, and - as you probably know - they have a world-wide network. The cost of a quality marine HAM radio is prohibitive & not, I think, worth the investment, unless you are an enthusiast. Regards, Mike jim_both wrote: Is a license required to Tx on the high seas on marine SSB frequencies? Who would the licensing authority be? It is a bit different than using Amateur bands, since these are controlled by international treaties. jim_both --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "T.H. & V.D. Cain" wrote: > Seer, > Depends on the Tx/Rx in question. > The current crop and the older units back as far as 1988 (approx.) use PLL > synthesis to generate the frequencies used internally and these types can be > "persuaded" to generate the appropriate marine HF output frequencies (if > your region uses HF). Techniques for accessing non amateur band frequencies > in Tx mode vary from unit to unit, but generally it comes down to links > deleted and links added in the units processor board. The RF finals are > usually able to operate quite happily in a broadband mode. > The old Kenwood 430S was a favourite among licensed amateurs who also owned > boats. > For VHF there is not likely to be any sound case for using an amateur rig, > since the dedicated marine units are inexpensive and simple to use. > There is a sound case for becoming a licensed amateur and joining in on one > of the many sea-nets which have a good record of service in all sorts of > ways, including emergencies. The licence requirements vary from country to > country and there are levels or classes of licence as well. It is not too > difficult to get into the hobby as you would know --- and the basic > electrical knowledge gained in the process is a great help in many ways, > especially on a boat when alone without external resources. > Most ham units now have a general coverage receiver (500kHz to 30mHz > continuous). Most will exceed the legal power output for the marine work > unless the operator knows what to do. > Naturally, there are some issues relating to approvals and the law. > Confiscation of equipment comes to mind! > Terry > -----Original Message----- > From: seeratlas [mailto:seeratlas@y...] > Sent: Thursday, 4 November 2004 22:14 > To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Hand Helds > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT --------------------------------- Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. --------------------------------- Post your free ad now! Yahoo! Canada Personals [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]| 6136|22|2004-11-06 17:34:58|origamiboats@yahoogroups.com|New file uploaded to origamiboats |Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the origamiboats group. File : /Seer's Swain 42 Schooner/php14j.JPG Uploaded by : seeratlas Description : WingSail schooner on racing 46 Cat You can access this file at the URL: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/files/Seer%27s%20%20Swain%2042%20Schooner/php14j.JPG To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit: http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files Regards, seeratlas | 6137|6137|2004-11-06 17:38:33|seeratlas|new uploads|I've had some email asking if I had any photos of the wingsail rig so I've put up a several photos of the wharram wingsail rig on a racing schooner cat of just over 47 feet. The photos are in the Files section under Seer's Schooner etc. You and clearly see the smooth luff wrapped around the round sectioned masts. This should work fine on my anticipated aluminum pole masts, or so goes the theory LOL. seer| 6138|6124|2004-11-06 18:04:28|brentswain38|Re: Zincs|Weld one on either side of the web between the keel and the skeg, and another all Z3 on the bottom of the rudder. Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "prairiemaidca" wrote: > > Hi All > > We're looking for information on how many and the placement of zincs > for our 36' Brent Swain fin keel. Thanks. > > > Martin and Betty (Prairie Maid) | 6139|6139|2004-11-06 21:33:33|kingsknight4life|I need an oxygen bottle|Hi. Anyone out there live on the Island, preferably near Duncan? Brent and I are finishing up my boat and I need to do some cutting for about a week. The problem is I don't have an Oxygen bottle and don't feel like buying one ($200) or going through the hassle of leasing one. If somone out there would like to make some extra $$ perhaps I could rent yours for a 7-10 days, depending on the weather. Thanks Rowland| 6140|6140|2004-11-06 21:35:33|kingsknight4life|Another dumb question.|Does anyone know what flex discs are? I need to remove some grinder marks from stainless fittings. Are they just sandpaper discs on a rubber pad?| 6141|6140|2004-11-07 02:24:02|jim dorey|Re: Another dumb question.|On Sun, 07 Nov 2004 02:35:03 -0000, kingsknight4life wrote: > > Does anyone know what flex discs are? I need to remove some grinder > marks from stainless fittings. Are they just sandpaper discs on a > rubber pad? there are some that are two metal disks with tiny stips of sandpaper set up like it's a pleated skirt that are flex disks too. -- Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/| 6142|6142|2004-11-07 11:29:14|seeratlas|Sheet Steel Suppliers/Manufacturers|Can you guys up in the Pac Norwest give me the names (if you have them) of any steel sheet mills and/or major suppliers of the 3/16 plate we need for building? I'm going to be building on Whidbey Island so I'm guessing that covers say from Tacoma thru Vancouver... thanks in advance. seer| 6143|6139|2004-11-07 21:53:07|John Langelo|Re: I need an oxygen bottle|Hi Rowland. I have a spare bottle you can borrow. It has to be filled, and it's in Duncan. John 746-4352 kingsknight4life wrote: Hi. Anyone out there live on the Island, preferably near Duncan? Brent and I are finishing up my boat and I need to do some cutting for about a week. The problem is I don't have an Oxygen bottle and don't feel like buying one ($200) or going through the hassle of leasing one. If somone out there would like to make some extra $$ perhaps I could rent yours for a 7-10 days, depending on the weather. Thanks Rowland To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links --------------------------------- Post your free ad now! Yahoo! Canada Personals [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]| 6144|6142|2004-11-07 23:55:46|John Jones|Re: Sheet Steel Suppliers/Manufacturers|Give Russel Metals or Sammual steel a try - Good luck John -- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "seeratlas" wrote: > > Can you guys up in the Pac Norwest give me the names (if you have > them) of any steel sheet mills and/or major suppliers of the 3/16 > plate we need for building? > > I'm going to be building on Whidbey Island so I'm guessing that covers > say from Tacoma thru Vancouver... > > thanks in advance. > > seer | 6145|6145|2004-11-08 07:58:39|audeojude|website consolidating boat buiding information|For those of you that were looking for a way to clean up past posts with good information in them and consolidate that information into a cleaner format with better searchability I think I have something that will work. I registered several domains a while back when this subject came up and said that I would be doing something about a wiki type website for the information to go on as soon as I got my new servers up and running. Well they are up and running. You can go to www.buildingyourboat.com to see the beta website. Anyone just browsing to the website can view it. Registered users can edit and add information to the site.(i would request that those of you we know from yahoogroups use the same username here so that you are easily identifieable to other members that would recognize you from there. For those of you that have a lot of interest in this I would like to create a pool of administrative users that have the ability to moderate and organize information on the site. This is not intended to take the place of the yahoo groups forum, but to be more like the orrigami2 group that is used to store information. Also for those of you that have been frustrated with the limited space available for uploads and pictures on yahoo :) I think we can dedicate several gigs of space to storage of this sort of thing. The software that I am using is tikiwiki It is multi lingual as well as having a babelfish plugin :) For those of you that are familar with tikiwiki you will know that there are many features I have not enabled. I won't be enabling any of them unless there is a demand for them by many users. I am still learning how to use this much less admin it and frankly with everything on it is almost bewildering in its complexity. For a simple photo repository and group managed document system we only need a few basic features and that is what I have enabled. The Wiki function, a photo gallery function based on the Coppermine photogallery, and an article module. A special note to those of you that started this thread of cleaning up old posts and want to be active with this. Email me directly at audeojude@... I am currently working on a unified structure to start putting information in. Basically creating catagories and subcatagories. This will be much more usable for everyone if we keep it very organized from the begining. A note of warning. The next few months as I and other interested parties learn how to use this site will probablly be a little frustrating. Not only the learning curve of the software but also as we hammer out agreeable policies for use of and design of the content on the site. (one non negotiable item is that all content will be free for anyone to view or use. I am going to read up on a couple of the licensing systems for open source documentation and maybe we will pick one to license the content of the website with. This means that the author of any posts we skim from yahoo groups or other sources will have to give their permision for that post to be published on the buildingyourboat.com site under such a license Ok im done now... there is a lot more stuff that needs to be hammered out and this is all very preliminary untill more people come on board and we see how it works out in practice as opposed to theory. Scott Carle aka audeojude| 6146|6142|2004-11-08 11:15:09|gschnell|Re: Sheet Steel Suppliers/Manufacturers|I used a broker. When I went shopping for my steel, a created a Request for Proposal and attached a materials list. Comportex came back with a substantially better price than any of the steel suppliers. $7000 (tax incld) for a 40'. Gord John Jones wrote: > > Give Russel Metals or Sammual steel a try - > Good luck > John > > > > -- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "seeratlas" > wrote: > > > > Can you guys up in the Pac Norwest give me the names (if you have > > them) of any steel sheet mills and/or major suppliers of the 3/16 > > plate we need for building? > > > > I'm going to be building on Whidbey Island so I'm guessing that > covers > > say from Tacoma thru Vancouver... > > > > thanks in advance. > > > > seer > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT [click here] > > --------------------------------------------------------------- > Yahoo! Groups Links > > * To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/ > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > Service. > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]| 6147|6142|2004-11-08 11:19:22|seeratlas|Re: Sheet Steel Suppliers/Manufacturers|Thanx John and Gord for the info :) I'm on it :) seer --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, gschnell wrote: > I used a broker. When I went shopping for my steel, a created a Request > for Proposal and attached a materials list. Comportex came back with a > substantially better price than any of the steel suppliers. $7000 (tax > incld) for a 40'. > Gord > > > John Jones wrote: > > > > > Give Russel Metals or Sammual steel a try - > > Good luck > > John > > > > > > > > -- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "seeratlas" > > wrote: > > > > > > Can you guys up in the Pac Norwest give me the names (if you have > > > them) of any steel sheet mills and/or major suppliers of the 3/16 > > > plate we need for building? > > > > > > I'm going to be building on Whidbey Island so I'm guessing that > > covers > > > say from Tacoma thru Vancouver... > > > > > > thanks in advance. > > > > > > seer > > > > > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ADVERTISEMENT > [click here] > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------- > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > * To visit your group on the web, go to: > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/ > > > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > > Service. > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 6148|6148|2004-11-08 11:26:58|seeratlas|Galvanized plate|I noticed in searching a couple of mill sites that it is possible to get sheet/plate that is electro galvanized on one side. Does this make any sense? I ask for the following reasons. I've seen where it is probably a bad idea to put galvanized below the water line, but it makes sense on deck. Seems to me it would also make sense for the entirety of the interior, therefore, if You could build the hull with the galvanized on the interior You'd have about as much protection against rusting out as you could get. Use hot dipped galvanized on the decks and house so its on both sides. Question is this, does the electroplate really add enough metal per foot to make it worthwhile enduring the problems it creates? I was under the impression that the hot dipped galvanized is multiples thicker and has a MUCH stronger chemical bond with the steel than the so called 'cold' galvanized high zinc content primer that Brent recommends . I see there is also an option for a hot dip galvanized that contains a small amount of nickel which is supposed to improve the corrosion resistance substantially... Any metallurgists out there? or someone who has spent some time talking to a mill engineer and sorted all this out? Brent? what is your current thinking about these other options? Are any of them even close to cost effective? thanks in advance for any comments, suggestions, leads for info :) Seer| 6149|22|2004-11-08 19:04:03|origamiboats@yahoogroups.com|New file uploaded to origamiboats |Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the origamiboats group. File : /Seer's Swain 42 Schooner/M42wingschoon13.bmp Uploaded by : seeratlas Description : Long PH Black Hull Version You can access this file at the URL: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/files/Seer%27s%20%20Swain%2042%20Schooner/M42wingschoon13.bmp To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit: http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files Regards, seeratlas | 6150|6142|2004-11-10 20:28:14|richytill|Re: Sheet Steel Suppliers/Manufacturers|Seer, Russel Steel can do it. Also give Dominion Steel a try. All these suppliers get the wheelabrade and prime done at the same place. Zinc paint done one day a week. rt, MY ISLAND, Sechelt. --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "seeratlas" wrote: > > Can you guys up in the Pac Norwest give me the names (if you have > them) of any steel sheet mills and/or major suppliers of the 3/16 > plate we need for building? > > I'm going to be building on Whidbey Island so I'm guessing that covers > say from Tacoma thru Vancouver... > > thanks in advance. > > seer | 6151|6142|2004-11-10 23:59:13|gschnell|Re: Sheet Steel Suppliers/Manufacturers|That is true. They all use RP Richmond to do the wheel abraiding and zinc priming..I believe it is every Wednesday. Gord richytill wrote: > > Seer, Russel Steel can do it. Also give Dominion Steel a try. All > these suppliers get the wheelabrade and prime done at the same > place. Zinc paint done one day a week. rt, MY ISLAND, Sechelt. > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "seeratlas" > wrote: > > > > Can you guys up in the Pac Norwest give me the names (if you have > > them) of any steel sheet mills and/or major suppliers of the 3/16 > > plate we need for building? > > > > I'm going to be building on Whidbey Island so I'm guessing that > covers > > say from Tacoma thru Vancouver... > > > > thanks in advance. > > > > seer > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT [click here] > > --------------------------------------------------------------- > Yahoo! Groups Links > > * To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/ > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > Service. > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]| 6152|6152|2004-11-11 09:29:28|seeratlas|Ovens on board-anyone ever actually use it? :)|I'm down to working out the details of the galley and when looking at the space and utility and cost of the std 3 burner /oven stainless unit, it dawned on me that in all the years I spent on the Falcon, I can only recall a half a dozen times that I ever actually used the oven, and even then I could have substituted several other ways. My current thinking is to go with a ceramic glass radiation top inset 3 burner electric setup. An efficient stainless microwave/convection unit (I have a microwave pressure cooker-raw rice to table in 3minutes :). A glass bowl "Galloping Gourmet" type convection oven (more below) and a bigazzed pressure cooker which I have from my salmon canning days.:) Here's my thoughts. 1. I know this flys in the face of convention, (full electric galley, no gas) but let me just say thru two big boats (54 and 58) both full electric, I never once had any problem with the installation, and with the surging price of lpg lng propane etc., I see no reason to change now. Every boat needs electricity of somekind, so in my view if you have to have it anyway, just bite the bullet and do it RIGHT from the get go, take care of it, and give up the joy of lugging 20lb gas tanks all over port looking for an ever more expensive refill. RV and home electric small appliances are relatively cheap, dependable if 'marinized' before installation, and easy to replace when you get tired of it, or it starts to look a little 'ratty'. 2. Looking at oven substitutes, there are a ton of inexpensive separate appliances that handle the job of the oven with a lot more efficiency. For example, the ones I'm thinking about all run about 1.2k watts or less. Now, I've had one of the old "Galloping Gourmet" glass bowl units for like six years and I've got to tell you, until the electronic controls on that one crapped out, it was wonderful. I could do a 15 lb turkey in that thing and it came out perfect. For things like 'broiling' fish, steaks, hamburgers, pizza, vegetables etc. it worked pretty much like you remember the advertisments. Far better than my big oven at home and one heck of a lot more efficient with very little cabin heating as the hot air is continuously swirled round inside the bowl. Plus it cooks about 3 times as fast as a regular oven. Frankly, during the time it operated I NEVER used the oven in my house. I've recently found essentially the same unit, withOUT the electronic controls (simple dials and timer now:) for about 89.00. Target will have them at that price starting in a few weeks. Other than resale questions which I don't give a hoot about, am I missing something here? as always thanks in advance for any observations seer| 6153|6153|2004-11-11 10:16:32|seeratlas|When to tack on external stainless rub strake?|Brent, Evan, anyone else? As you can see on my profile view, I've drawn in a stainless "rub strake' on the topsides of my black hull. Should this be welded down at the same time as the toe rail? i.e., while the place is flat on the ground before being pulled? ANy suggestions as to to whether to use solid half bar? or half pipe? any 'gotchas' I should watch out for? seer| 6154|6154|2004-11-11 13:36:40|Rich|Steel Hull sloop On Ebay - NOT origami|This post may be a bit off topic but - for anyone who is interested, a charity has a 30' steel sloop for sale on ebay. I think it may go for a low price if anyone is interested. The bidding is now about $700. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ViewItem&category=63731&item=4503605013&rd=1 Regards, Rich| 6155|6152|2004-11-11 15:01:48|tronfixr|Re: Ovens on board-anyone ever actually use it? :)|I think it is a matter of personal preference and from what angle it is taken- technically. As a cook, I love the control of a gas range top and the consistancy of an electric oven. But the effeciency of propane is hard to beat. I have a drop in gas unit which I think came from someone's boat (in my house) and I go 9 months on 10gl (40lb cylinder) of propane by myself. Although some disagree, I find propane very easy to handle and safe to store. My main reluctance to all elecrtic in a boat is probably more related to the nature of how it interacts with the environment and the hidden damage it can do when things unknown go wrong. Or more bluntly, smoke generators are easy. You can see sparks, even in the daylight!! It's the induced and/or leaked currents where I don't want them that give me the heebe jeebies. Even more so in a metal hull. I agree, the oven doesn't get used much but it is nice to have for when it does. Mike --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "seeratlas" wrote: > > I'm down to working out the details of the galley and when looking at > the space and utility and cost of the std 3 burner /oven stainless > unit, it dawned on me that in all the years I spent on the Falcon, I > can only recall a half a dozen times that I ever actually used the > oven, and even then I could have substituted several other ways. > > My current thinking is to go with a ceramic glass radiation top inset > 3 burner electric setup. An efficient stainless microwave/convection > unit (I have a microwave pressure cooker-raw rice to table in 3minutes > :). A glass bowl "Galloping Gourmet" type convection oven (more below) > and a bigazzed pressure cooker which I have from my salmon canning days.:) > > Here's my thoughts. > 1. I know this flys in the face of convention, (full electric galley, > no gas) but let me just say thru two big boats (54 and 58) both full > electric, I never once had any problem with the installation, and with > the surging price of lpg lng propane etc., I see no reason to change > now. Every boat needs electricity of somekind, so in my view if you > have to have it anyway, just bite the bullet and do it RIGHT from the > get go, take care of it, and give up the joy of lugging 20lb gas tanks > all over port looking for an ever more expensive refill. RV and home > electric small appliances are relatively cheap, dependable if > 'marinized' before installation, and easy to replace when you get > tired of it, or it starts to look a little 'ratty'. > > 2. Looking at oven substitutes, there are a ton of inexpensive > separate appliances that handle the job of the oven with a lot more > efficiency. > For example, the ones I'm thinking about all run about 1.2k watts or less. > > Now, I've had one of the old "Galloping Gourmet" glass bowl units for > like six years and I've got to tell you, until the electronic controls > on that one crapped out, it was wonderful. I could do a 15 lb turkey > in that thing and it came out perfect. For things like 'broiling' > fish, steaks, hamburgers, pizza, vegetables etc. it worked pretty much > like you remember the advertisments. Far better than my big oven at > home and one heck of a lot more efficient with very little cabin > heating as the hot air is continuously swirled round inside the bowl. > Plus it cooks about 3 times as fast as a regular oven. Frankly, during > the time it operated I NEVER used the oven in my house. I've recently > found essentially the same unit, withOUT the electronic controls > (simple dials and timer now:) for about 89.00. Target will have them > at that price starting in a few weeks. > > Other than resale questions which I don't give a hoot about, am I > missing something here? > > as always > thanks in advance for any observations > seer | 6156|6152|2004-11-11 18:53:47|Ben Tucker|Re: Ovens on board-anyone ever actually use it? :)|hi I was thinking Ovens are great for baking bread in, but then realised that you can just plug in an electric breadmaker!. I would like to at least have some kind of non electric backup heating system that works well in a rough sea, and when the gennys being overhauled . Could be a pain in the ass starting the genny every time you want a cup of tea, (but then you probably will have an auto start thingy as well). A guy that works here is doing exactly the same thing cooking wise in his 50 foot roberts, we laugh at him and think it a stupid idea, maybe we're the stupid ones! cheers Ben| 6157|6152|2004-11-11 19:05:17|Gary H. Lucas|Re: Ovens on board-anyone ever actually use it? :)|An inverter off the battery running a microwave can handle the occasional cup of coffee, soup etc. Microwaves are very efficient, nearly all the energy is used for heating so the actual drawdown on a battery is very small. Gary H. Lucas ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ben Tucker" To: Sent: Thursday, November 11, 2004 6:52 PM Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Ovens on board-anyone ever actually use it? :) > > > hi > > I was thinking Ovens are great for baking bread in, but then realised > that you can just plug in an electric breadmaker!. I would like to at > least have some kind of non electric backup heating system that works > well in a rough sea, and when the gennys being overhauled . Could be > a pain in the ass starting the genny every time you want a cup of > tea, (but then you probably will have an auto start thingy as well). > A guy that works here is doing exactly the same thing cooking wise in > his 50 foot roberts, we laugh at him and think it a stupid idea, > maybe we're the stupid ones! > > cheers > > Ben > > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > | 6158|6152|2004-11-11 19:19:56|seeratlas|Re: Ovens on board-anyone ever actually use it? :)|Ben, going to have a diesel/solid fuel heater/small stove too :) I agree, lpg is very convenient to use, here..... :) maybe a lpg barby on the stern rail? :) seer -- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Ben Tucker" wrote: > > hi > > I was thinking Ovens are great for baking bread in, but then realised > that you can just plug in an electric breadmaker!. I would like to at > least have some kind of non electric backup heating system that works > well in a rough sea, and when the gennys being overhauled . Could be > a pain in the ass starting the genny every time you want a cup of > tea, (but then you probably will have an auto start thingy as well). > A guy that works here is doing exactly the same thing cooking wise in > his 50 foot roberts, we laugh at him and think it a stupid idea, > maybe we're the stupid ones! > > cheers > > Ben | 6159|6152|2004-11-11 20:34:37|Ben Tucker|Re: Ovens on board-anyone ever actually use it? :)|Hi seer, The concept certainly gets away from the dangers of LPG and the hastles of Kero, You lose the simplicity of a self contained cooking system, relying on a genset but I supose when you accept the genset then the concept makes sense (I still have trouble accepting any engine on a boat!! and one part of me yearns to sink the damn thing and go back to sailing/rowing every where :) I remember a good winter cruise in NZ when we forgot to top up on LPG so spent 3 weeks cooking on the wood stove, it worked great,we saved the last LPG for cups of coffee and tea. Ive been living aboard with an English Girl for the last five years (now she back in a house and Ive got the boat to myself) the "cup of tea" and easy reliable hot water became a vital yacht system. She insited on gas with an oven for the new boat (also the damn inboard engine and full headroom). I hadn't thought of using a microwave for heating water, guess I really am in the dark ages. I guess the biggest problem will be all the people who will think your crazy (to be honest myself included) for not having a more normal system, But I guess thats never stopped you before, and its not as if the boat will sink, or the mast will colaspe if it dies. Just make sure a big wave down the hatch won't turn the kitchen into an electric shock hazard. Cheers Ben| 6160|6145|2004-11-11 20:52:00|Ben Tucker|Re: website consolidating boat buiding information|Hi Audiojude, Looks good, much more professional than what I was origionally thinking of. I am keen to help out with sorting the Origami files. The licencing side of it looks like abit of a Nightmare, but as the originals are on yahoo anyway all that needs to be done is to summarise the content and have an easy way to access the originals via a link to Yahoo if we can't get hold of the Author or something. good stuff Ben| 6161|6153|2004-11-11 21:11:31|brentswain38|Re: When to tack on external stainless rub strake?|Welding it on while the plate is on the ground would mean lifting and turning over the plate, not worth the trouble unless you happen to have overhead cranes. Stainless half round would be tougher and not prone to denting , but would not stick out as far as half pipe. Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "seeratlas" wrote: > > Brent, Evan, anyone else? > > As you can see on my profile view, I've drawn in a stainless "rub > strake' on the topsides of my black hull. Should this be welded down > at the same time as the toe rail? i.e., while the place is flat on the > ground before being pulled? ANy suggestions as to to whether to use > solid half bar? or half pipe? any 'gotchas' I should watch out for? > > > seer | 6162|6152|2004-11-11 22:40:49|seeratlas|Re: Ovens on board-anyone ever actually use it? :)|-Ben, LOL. No big genset. I'll be running off big alternators on the main motor, big battery bank, inverter and something hung either off the shaft or a towed gen. All the cooking 'stuff' is less than 1.5k watts, bout the same as a blow dryer:) In my experience there are really only three things that diesels don't like, 1. bad fuel, 2. inactivity. 3. old oil. I'm planning on participating in the rebuild of the Kubota I have in mind for the boat so I'll be knowledgeable about the engine, and I'm a firm believer in baja filters, fuel polishing systems, multiple tanks with bottom sump draw off, and a day or header tank with a dual inline fuel filter/water separator setup. With the in keel or rather skeg, cooling and dry exhaust, I see no reason to anticipate any problems with the motor, so all the electricity I need is just a button away. As backups, either a towed gen, and/or a gen on the prop shaft for freewheeling under sail, and, if I have room (which I think I do) a portable honda 2k gen :) for emergencies. If I may be so bold, electricity isn't really all that difficult to do well on a boat, the problem is most pro boatbuilders screw it up something awful. It's like a repairman's dream, at least if he's working hourly. You can solve 90 percent of the problems if you do three things. 1. figure out the wire size you think you need, then double it. 2. secure the wire so it doesn't move around, stress harden and crack and 3. make sure the entire wire is sealed, end to end. Oh, yeah, you should try to use tinned wire exclusively, and fuse/circuit breaker everything you install. Lastly, when i say sealed, I mean sealed. I've found the std. hot glue out of a gun to do the trick exceedingly well. Goop the hell out of the exposed connection ends, its easy to melt or cut off later if you need to change something. If your connections are tight and sealed, your wire covered and tied down, electrical problems have to find some other way to ruin your day :) lots of fuses/circuit breakers and an isolation transformer help :), and make up a schematic of everthing you install labeling the wires and showing where they run. Keep this book with your log and keep it updated. Add a couple of multimeters, and you should be set. Without diesel and no lpg in the boat, you don't have to sweat explosions. I never met a gas line, valve, connector etc. that didn't leak, eventually..If you run LPG, check your fittings, all the time, never stop. I saw a boat blow once. As for waves down the hatch...heheh I like my cockpits small, and forward.and empty..ergo a good PH :) .getting pooped is a lot less fun than it sounds, and it doesn't sound like much fun. :) seer -- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Ben Tucker" wrote: > > Hi seer, > > The concept certainly gets away from the dangers of LPG and the > hastles of Kero, You lose the simplicity of a self contained cooking > system, relying on a genset but I supose when you accept the genset > then the concept makes sense (I still have trouble accepting any > engine on a boat!! and one part of me yearns to sink the damn thing > and go back to sailing/rowing every where :) > > I remember a good winter cruise in NZ when we forgot to top up on LPG > so spent 3 weeks cooking on the wood stove, it worked great,we saved > the last LPG for cups of coffee and tea. > > Ive been living aboard with an English Girl for the last five years > (now she back in a house and Ive got the boat to myself) the "cup of > tea" and easy reliable hot water became a vital yacht system. She > insited on gas with an oven for the new boat (also the damn inboard > engine and full headroom). I hadn't thought of using a microwave for > heating water, guess I really am in the dark ages. > > I guess the biggest problem will be all the people who will think > your crazy (to be honest myself included) for not having a more > normal system, But I guess thats never stopped you before, and its > not as if the boat will sink, or the mast will colaspe if it dies. > Just make sure a big wave down the hatch won't turn the kitchen into > an electric shock hazard. > > Cheers > > Ben | 6163|6152|2004-11-12 00:12:54|Ben Tucker|Re: Ovens on board-anyone ever actually use it? :)|Hello seer, I guess 5 years with no engine (ok I did have a 3.5hp tohatsu outboard for the last two years to keep the english girl happy) has permenantly tainted me, I now drink lots of tea and that lump of metal below always gives me worrys, If it isn't running will it start? and if is is running will it stop! I think you have the right idea about rebuilding the thing to get freindly with it, something I plan to do next year after I have quit the job. A freind has an opinion that solar panels and stuff arent cost effective, as he says you lug round the engine, use it. He has everything belted off the engine so he only has to run it for 1/2 hour a day to 1) top up his batteries 2) cool down his fridge 3)heat up his hot water While charging the engine is under full load, driving all this stuff off a layshaft of some sort. Not for me, I like solar panels and don't like engines, (and I can also tolerate warm beer) but it works well for him. I have often thought that the wiring systems most boats have are overly complex, leading to more problems. How about a heavy duty ring system around the gunnel on both sides. This would act as a huge bus bar that all the little wires could be hooked onto through well spaced junction boxes. The ring main has a double backup of being continous so a break in one spot will not cripple the system. you could easlily check for continuity of the ring main or find faults in it, and the shorter feeder wires would be much easier to run and waterproof. What we have is decentralised system with redundancy built in. no more spagetti junction (abit like the net). I had a wave flood one boat I sailed on, it took a shelf off the galley wall and totally soaked the main switchboard. One by one over the next week at sea all the swiches failed, we shorted them out with fuse wire. To shut down a circut we just took out the fuse. Made me wonder why bother with the switches in the first place! or maybe we should have just shut the hatch, but stupid bloody dropboards made it very hard to get in and out when it was closed. Cheers Ben| 6164|6139|2004-11-12 00:22:10|kingsknight4life|Re: I need an oxygen bottle|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, John Langelo wrote: > Hi Rowland. I have a spare bottle you can borrow. . > Thanks John. I managed to get one and Brent and I have been busy all week, detailing the boat. Sorry I didn't get back to you sooner. Are you building a boat too?? Rowland > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats- unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > Post your free ad now! Yahoo! Canada Personals > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 6165|6152|2004-11-12 04:03:16|sae140|Re: Ovens on board-anyone ever actually use it? :)|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "seeratlas" wrote: > > I'm a firm believer in baja filters, fuel polishing systems, multiple tanks with bottom sump draw off, and a day or header tank with a dual inline fuel filter/water separator setup. You seem to have this stuff covered - I'd just like to chip in that I once experienced diesel frothing whilst crossing over some shoal ground during heavy weather. Baffles alone did not prove adequate with half-full tanks, so modifying the system to provide a small permanently-full 'draw-off' tank low down (with an air vent taken high to ensure zero air in the tank) cured the problem. Presumably this is what you mean by bottom sump draw-off ? > If I may be so bold, electricity isn't really all that difficult to do well on a boat, the problem is most pro boatbuilders screw it up something awful. Like allowing pvc cables to come into direct contact with foam ? Colin| 6166|6152|2004-11-12 07:59:14|seeratlas|Re: Ovens on board-anyone ever actually use it? :)|Colin, Yeppers, that's what I meant. I had much the same experience, once, crossing a beeatch of a confused sea at a river bar. Because of a bad combination of wind and current, the trip was agonizingly slow and everything on board, not just the fuel was, as Bond used to say "shaken, not stirred". After that I fixxed it. Without a deep sump bottom draw tank as you describe, the fuel can end up looking something like a Coke that has been seriously mishandled :) Re your pvc in foam example. It's amazing some of the things you see coming from yards that have been in business 30/40 years. The 58 semi displacement powerboat I've mentioned was almost lost one night at anchor when a simple 2 foot chop came in from such an angle that it was splashing directly up and into the quarter topsides engine room vents...if not for the bigazzed fire/bilge pump that been special ordered installed, (on my recommendation hehehe) she'd have gone down. I wonder how much the yard saved in ducting materials by putting the vents so far down..10? 20 dollars? on a 3/4 million dollar boat? jeez..... --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "sae140" wrote: > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "seeratlas" > wrote: > > > > I'm a firm believer in baja filters, fuel polishing systems, > multiple tanks with bottom sump draw off, and a day or header tank > with a dual inline fuel filter/water separator setup. > > You seem to have this stuff covered - I'd just like to chip in that I > once experienced diesel frothing whilst crossing over some shoal > ground during heavy weather. Baffles alone did not prove adequate > with half-full tanks, so modifying the system to provide a small > permanently-full 'draw-off' tank low down (with an air vent taken > high to ensure zero air in the tank) cured the problem. Presumably > this is what you mean by bottom sump draw-off ? > > > > If I may be so bold, electricity isn't really all that difficult to > do well on a boat, the problem is most pro boatbuilders screw it up > something awful. > > Like allowing pvc cables to come into direct contact with foam ? > > Colin | 6167|6152|2004-11-12 12:45:43|Brent Geery|Re: Ovens on board-anyone ever actually use it? :)|On Fri, 12 Nov 2004 05:12:52 -0000, "Ben Tucker" wrote: > A freind has an opinion that solar panels and stuff arent cost > effective, as he says you lug round the engine, use it. He has > everything belted off the engine so he only has to run it for 1/2 > hour a day to > 1) top up his batteries > 2) cool down his fridge > 3)heat up his hot water Small IC engines are by far, they most expensive energy source, even just including the fuel and maintenance costs, long-term. Solar and wind power are many times cheaper long-term, but you pay it all up front. -- BRENT - The Usenet typo king. :)| 6168|6152|2004-11-12 21:58:11|Gary H. Lucas|Re: Ovens on board-anyone ever actually use it? :)|This is simply not true. Are you aware that at current efficiencies no commercial solar cell to date has put out as much power as it actually took to MAKE it? Take any small engine, it's initial cost, all the fuel and maintenance over it's life time and add it up and divide that by the total number of kilowatt hours you get in that time period. You will be absolutely amazed at how much less this will be than the cost of solar cells to produce the same amount of power. The primary problem with small engine generators is that they are seldom run fully loaded so their real world efficiency is low. The other problem is they must run at 1800 or 3600 rpm all the time to produce the right AC frequency. Honda has this problem beat. Their new generators have built in inverters. Frequency is maintained by the inverter and the engine runs only as fast as it needs to maintain the power level needed. They are very quiet, fuel efficient and long lived. This of course won't work as well with a diesel because they need to operate at high loads to be efficient. Gary H. Lucas Gary H. Lucas ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brent Geery" To: Sent: Friday, November 12, 2004 12:45 PM Subject: Re: [origamiboats] Re: Ovens on board-anyone ever actually use it? :) > > On Fri, 12 Nov 2004 05:12:52 -0000, "Ben Tucker" > wrote: > > > A freind has an opinion that solar panels and stuff arent cost > > effective, as he says you lug round the engine, use it. He has > > everything belted off the engine so he only has to run it for 1/2 > > hour a day to > > 1) top up his batteries > > 2) cool down his fridge > > 3)heat up his hot water > > Small IC engines are by far, they most expensive energy source, even > just including the fuel and maintenance costs, long-term. Solar and > wind power are many times cheaper long-term, but you pay it all up > front. > > -- > BRENT - The Usenet typo king. :) > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > | 6169|6152|2004-11-13 01:08:04|Brent Geery|Re: Ovens on board-anyone ever actually use it? :)|On Fri, 12 Nov 2004 21:58:09 -0500, "Gary H. Lucas" wrote: > Brent Geery wrote: > > Small IC engines are by far, they most expensive energy source, even > > just including the fuel and maintenance costs, long-term. Solar and > > wind power are many times cheaper long-term, but you pay it all up > > front. > This is simply not true. Are you aware that at current efficiencies no > commercial solar cell to date has put out as much power as it actually took > to MAKE it? Fist, that's not true. The net energy payback is in the range of 2-7 years, depending on the study, and PV technology you're concerned with. Search google, or ask on alt.energy.homepower or alt.energy.renewable. Secondly, an IC engine never has an net energy payback. It always demands more energy to operate, and can never create more energy than it demands in fuel. IC engine are complex heaters, that just happen to create some useful mechanical force as a by-product. :) > Take any small engine, it's initial cost, all the fuel and > maintenance over it's life time and add it up and divide that by the total > number of kilowatt hours you get in that time period. You will be > absolutely amazed at how much less this will be than the cost of solar cells > to produce the same amount of power. OK. You can buy PV for under $3.75/W nowadays. This 1 watt of PV will make about 4 watts of power each day (assuming a conservative 4 PSH), or a total of 36.5kWh over its warrantied life of 25 years (minimum). That comes out to a cost of about $0.1027/kWh. Diesel fuel provides about 130,500 Btu/US gallon, or 38.2kW. The engine (at best) is going to be 30% efficient, leaving us with 11.46kw/gallon for use by the generator. Assuming diesel is going for $1.50/gallon (for the next 30 years!) the cost comes out to $0.1309/kWh. This does not include any losses in power transmission to the generator, nor generator losses themselves (these totaled probably cut at least another 1/4 of the total power.) So, leaving out the capitol costs of buying the engine/generator, or the engine maintenance costs, only looking at fuel costs, PV still wins. Good luck guessing how much fuel will rise in 25 years, or adding in maintenance costs. There is a reason off-grid homes go PV. -- BRENT - The Usenet typo king. :)| 6170|6145|2004-11-13 07:50:28|audeojude|Re: website consolidating boat buiding information|I know what your saying about the licensing. I took an existing license and modified it to be as open as it reasonalbly be so that information posted to the wiki will be free for people to use in the future without asking permision. :) as long as they pass that right on downstream :)but i didn't make it imposible for someone to include information from the site in a published work if someone wanted to use the information that way. The information they took from the site would have to have a note that it is free to use by people that buy the book but thats all. Basically I just want the information to become free for anyone to use however they like in what manner they want to use it. :) It will mean that I and anyone else looking to help will most likely have to rewrite a lot of stuff. However I am hoping to get most people on the forum's permission to use the stuff they are posting or have posted in the past so that some can just be copied over. I do know that a lot of it will have to be edited anyway to move it from a discusion based format to a more text book like format. we will see how it goes. I will be doing it by myself if I have to just for my own use but it would go much faster with other people helping. So far I have posted here and on the junk rig list as they had run out of space for photos and files again. As it gets more organized and there is something there for people to have more of an idea how it works i will post on more groups that it is available and we will see what happens. come one come all :) scott carle ps glad to have you onboard helping with the origami files Ben :) i have already created a origami photo gallery that photos could start to be uploaded to. I am still working on a structure for the wiki but feel free to start putting information in if you want to jump right in and get started. We can always move stuff around later if we want to. It's a very flexable wiki. --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Ben Tucker" wrote: > > Hi Audiojude, > > Looks good, much more professional than what I was origionally > thinking of. I am keen to help out with sorting the Origami files. > The licencing side of it looks like abit of a Nightmare, but as the > originals are on yahoo anyway all that needs to be done is to > summarise the content and have an easy way to access the originals > via a link to Yahoo if we can't get hold of the Author or something. > > good stuff > > Ben | 6171|6171|2004-11-13 16:50:39|tbmfoto@aol.com|Basic info|This may be the most basic steel boat question ever asked. How much (per sqft) does 3/16th plate weigh? Thanks in advance. Tom [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]| 6172|6171|2004-11-13 19:01:22|Gary H. Lucas|Re: Basic info|The number I keep in my head is 5 lbs per square foot for 1/8", so 3/16" weighs 7.5 lb/sqft. Gary H. Lucas ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2004 4:47 PM Subject: [origamiboats] Basic info > > This may be the most basic steel boat question ever asked. How much (per > sqft) does 3/16th plate weigh? > > Thanks in advance. > > Tom > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > | 6173|6142|2004-11-13 20:21:52|Candy Larreau|Re: Sheet Steel Suppliers/Manufacturers|hi, Seer We are building at Bothell, WA. and bought our sheets from Metal Supermarket just up the road, in Woodenville (after we beat them down in price). They delivered it to Calvert Industries in Maltby, to have it Wheelabated, and then we picked it up and brought it home (about 5 miles away) If you are on Whidbey, it isn't a bed trip to come over and check out what we have done. Randy & Candy --- seeratlas wrote: > > Can you guys up in the Pac Norwest give me the names > (if you have > them) of any steel sheet mills and/or major > suppliers of the 3/16 > plate we need for building? > > I'm going to be building on Whidbey Island so I'm > guessing that covers > say from Tacoma thru Vancouver... > > thanks in advance. > > seer > > > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com| 6174|6171|2004-11-13 22:32:34|Mike|Re: Basic info|Tom: For future reference, mild steel weighs: 1) 7850kg/cubic metre to order plate: Volume(cubic metres) x 7850kg x No. of pieces) 2) 40lbs/sqft of 1" material (to order plate: Surface Area(sq.ft.) x Thickness(inches) x 40lbs. x No. of pieces) Mike --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, tbmfoto@a... wrote: > This may be the most basic steel boat question ever asked. How much (per > sqft) does 3/16th plate weigh? > > Thanks in advance. > > Tom > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 6175|6175|2004-11-14 17:46:49|tomjlee2000|Amigos ---- steel info'--structure etc|Steel Info' Site 1 Go to:Page 1..... /very clear and comprehensive;if you have school-agers;very useful;many topics. Site 2 wrote: --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, John Langelo wrote: > Hi Rowland. I have a spare bottle you can borrow. . > Thanks John. I managed to get one and Brent and I have been busy all week, detailing the boat. Sorry I didn't get back to you sooner. Are you building a boat too?? Rowland > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats- unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > Post your free ad now! Yahoo! Canada Personals > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links --------------------------------- Post your free ad now! Yahoo! Canada Personals [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 6178|6152|2004-11-16 08:23:31|Bill Jaine|Re: Ovens on board-anyone ever actually use it? :)|This is a little late but on topic. We would never be without our oven, when you�re cold and hungry and tired the oven is a lifesaver. In rough water a hot baked potato with butter is as good as the best filet you�ve ever had. And the oven takes the damp out of a cool evening as you wait for dinner to cook. The next accessory, that is a necessity, is a wife that can cook at 45 degrees heel and serve a great meal when it�s too rough for you to leave the wheel, or tiller. Bill Port Hope. Canada -----Original Message----- From: sae140 [mailto:colinpowell@...] Sent: 12-Nov-04 4:03 AM To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Ovens on board-anyone ever actually use it? :) --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "seeratlas" wrote: > > I'm a firm believer in baja filters, fuel polishing systems, multiple tanks with bottom sump draw off, and a day or header tank with a dual inline fuel filter/water separator setup. You seem to have this stuff covered - I'd just like to chip in that I once experienced diesel frothing whilst crossing over some shoal ground during heavy weather. Baffles alone did not prove adequate with half-full tanks, so modifying the system to provide a small permanently-full 'draw-off' tank low down (with an air vent taken high to ensure zero air in the tank) cured the problem. Presumably this is what you mean by bottom sump draw-off ? > If I may be so bold, electricity isn't really all that difficult to do well on a boat, the problem is most pro boatbuilders screw it up something awful. Like allowing pvc cables to come into direct contact with foam ? Colin To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT HYPERLINK "http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=129e004mj/M=298184.5584357.6650215.3001176/D=gr oups/S=1705150872:HM/EXP=1100336600/A=2426685/R=0/SIG=11eslo8dq/*http:/www.n etflix.com/Default?mqso=60185401"click here HYPERLINK "http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?M=298184.5584357.6650215.3001176/D=groups/S= :HM/A=2426685/rand=460153551" _____ Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: HYPERLINK "http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/"http://groups.yahoo.com/group/o rigamiboats/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HYPERLINK "mailto:origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe"origami boats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the HYPERLINK "http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/"Yahoo! Terms of Service. --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.794 / Virus Database: 538 - Release Date: 10/11/2004 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.796 / Virus Database: 540 - Release Date: 13/11/2004 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]| 6179|6152|2004-11-16 09:50:20|seeratlas|Re: Ovens on board-anyone ever actually use it? :)|:) A small microwave will do a BIG potato in about 7 minutes. Further, I'm not really doing without an oven as the 1. Will have the micro 2. will have the convection glass cooker. 3. will have a 'dutch' oven for the stove top. My glass convection whips the conventional oven all to hell in performance both as to time to cook, ease of cleaning, and energy efficiency. :) If you havn't tried one, you'll be amazed, but again, that's only because I've decided to go electrical and forget the gas. Diesel and a small external tank of gasoline for the outboard are all the fuels I plan to mess with, except maybe some solid fuel for long stretches at calm northern anchorages. :) One other advantage of the glass convection unit is that in the tropics, you can just set the unit on deck, run the cord to an outlet (I'll have a couple on the deck, in the cockpit etc.) and cook outside:) hard to beat for 80 bucks. seer --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Bill Jaine" wrote: > This is a little late but on topic. > > We would never be without our oven, when you're cold and hungry and tired > the oven is a lifesaver. In rough water a hot baked potato with butter is > as good as the best filet you've ever had. > > And the oven takes the damp out of a cool evening as you wait for dinner to > cook. The next accessory, that is a necessity, is a wife that can cook at 45 > degrees heel and serve a great meal when it's too rough for you to leave the > wheel, or tiller. > > > > Bill > > Port Hope. Canada > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: sae140 [mailto:colinpowell@f...] > Sent: 12-Nov-04 4:03 AM > To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Ovens on board-anyone ever actually use it? :) > > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "seeratlas" > wrote: > > > > I'm a firm believer in baja filters, fuel polishing systems, > multiple tanks with bottom sump draw off, and a day or header tank > with a dual inline fuel filter/water separator setup. > > You seem to have this stuff covered - I'd just like to chip in that I > once experienced diesel frothing whilst crossing over some shoal > ground during heavy weather. Baffles alone did not prove adequate > with half-full tanks, so modifying the system to provide a small > permanently-full 'draw-off' tank low down (with an air vent taken > high to ensure zero air in the tank) cured the problem. Presumably > this is what you mean by bottom sump draw-off ? > > > > If I may be so bold, electricity isn't really all that difficult to > do well on a boat, the problem is most pro boatbuilders screw it up > something awful. > > Like allowing pvc cables to come into direct contact with foam ? > > Colin > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > > ADVERTISEMENT > HYPERLINK > "http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=129e004mj/M=298184.5584357.6650215.3001176/D=gr > oups/S=1705150872:HM/EXP=1100336600/A=2426685/R=0/SIG=11eslo8dq/*http:/www.n > etflix.com/Default?mqso=60185401"click here > > > HYPERLINK > "http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?M=298184.5584357.6650215.3001176/D=groups/S= > :HM/A=2426685/rand=460153551" > > > > _____ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > * To visit your group on the web, go to: > HYPERLINK > "http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/"http://groups.yahoo.com/group/o > rigamiboats/ > > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > HYPERLINK > "mailto:origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe"origami > boats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the HYPERLINK > "http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/"Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > > --- > Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.794 / Virus Database: 538 - Release Date: 10/11/2004 > > > > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.796 / Virus Database: 540 - Release Date: 13/11/2004 > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 6180|6152|2004-11-16 09:56:27|seeratlas|Re: Ovens on board-anyone ever actually use it? :)|Oh, one other thing :) Re cooking wife--- my design has the PH with autopilot inside steering approximately six feet from the galley :) soooo.... A good wife is a very difficult thing to find:) If you found one congrats :) Rest of us will just have to cook for ourselves :) Oh, and 45 degree heel? whew, now THAT's what I call a tender ship :) LOL. I'm designing my interior for extended use at 20 degrees....It would seem a daunting task to plan for 45 :) seer tions of this message have been removed]| 6181|6181|2004-11-16 17:46:57|brentswain38|Trimtabs|I noticed that a couple of my 36 footers have recently been built with only top and bottom pintles on the trintab. The centre one was missing, changing it from a bulletproof trintab to an extremely flimsey one. Any ten year old could give a tug on the trimtab shaft at the waterlline and pull the bottom out of it's socket. Any stray log could do the same. I don't know where the hair brained idea of leaving the centre pintle out came from, but I have my suspicions. The centre one can be bigger than the others, and the bushing can be left out, so it only touches the shaft if it bends under load. It stops the shaft from bending so far it wont spring back. This makes alignment of the three less critical. If you are missing the centre pintle, weld one on. The tiny but of burnt paint is not worth losing thew trintab over. Brent Swain| 6182|6181|2004-11-16 18:46:08|richytill|Re: Trimtabs|Brent, put 3 sockets on my rudder as per drawing--welded them in position with a piece of round stock through centres for alignment. If the cenre bushing is too stiff will set aside as spare. By the way, what is your read on the typical angle of heel for a 36'? rt --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "brentswain38" wrote: > > I noticed that a couple of my 36 footers have recently been built > with only top and bottom pintles on the trintab. The centre one was > missing, changing it from a bulletproof trintab to an extremely > flimsey one. Any ten year old could give a tug on the trimtab shaft > at the waterlline and pull the bottom out of it's socket. Any stray > log could do the same. I don't know where the hair brained idea of > leaving the centre pintle out came from, but I have my suspicions. > The centre one can be bigger than the others, and the bushing can > be left out, so it only touches the shaft if it bends under load. It > stops the shaft from bending so far it wont spring back. This makes > alignment of the three less critical. > If you are missing the centre pintle, weld one on. The tiny but of > burnt paint is not worth losing thew trintab over. > Brent Swain | 6183|6181|2004-11-16 19:38:33|brentswain38|Re: Trimtabs|I usually sail best at 20 to 25 degres. With a bilge keeler , it slows down if you sail her harder. Coming home from Tonga, she would feel like she was really moving, I'd put a reef in her and she'd go faster. Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "richytill" wrote: > > Brent, put 3 sockets on my rudder as per drawing--welded them in > position with a piece of round stock through centres for alignment. > If the cenre bushing is too stiff will set aside as spare. By the > way, what is your read on the typical angle of heel for a 36'? rt > > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "brentswain38" > wrote: > > > > I noticed that a couple of my 36 footers have recently been built > > with only top and bottom pintles on the trintab. The centre one was > > missing, changing it from a bulletproof trintab to an extremely > > flimsey one. Any ten year old could give a tug on the trimtab shaft > > at the waterlline and pull the bottom out of it's socket. Any stray > > log could do the same. I don't know where the hair brained idea of > > leaving the centre pintle out came from, but I have my suspicions. > > The centre one can be bigger than the others, and the bushing can > > be left out, so it only touches the shaft if it bends under load. > It > > stops the shaft from bending so far it wont spring back. This makes > > alignment of the three less critical. > > If you are missing the centre pintle, weld one on. The tiny but of > > burnt paint is not worth losing thew trintab over. > > Brent Swain | 6184|6184|2004-11-16 19:47:45|brentswain38|Tank under the cockpit|I just watched one of my 36 footers being launched . It floated over six inches low in the stern. The owner had built a 600 lb tank under the cockpit. It would take roughly 700 lbs under the forepeak berth to set her level.There is no way mast, rig and anchors will do that. Another owner built 150 gallons of steel tankage under the wheelhouse floor. He has to run with them empty as 1500 lbs there would set the stern a long way down, and there is no easy way to remove them. Don't build heavy tankage under your cockpit. There is no surer way to kill a boat's windward performance than excess weight in the ends. A ten gallon day tank under the foreward end of the cockpit is a good idea, but 600 lbs of tankage in the end of a boat is a bad idea. It's not a good idea to let someone with a grade eight education re- design a well proven boat. Stick to the plans! Brent Swain| 6185|6185|2004-11-16 22:44:51|jericoera|36 bilge keeler aluminum|I am really playing with the idea of having a 36 footer aluminum bilge keeler built professionally. Anyone have one that could give me some pointers/ specs on the boat. I am curious about its hull speed and comfort at sea. Also for anyone who cares, I have cheap ocean front property I am selling to raise capital for the boat. I want to get the project off the ground so any help in this regard is welcomed. Carl McIntosh| 6186|6181|2004-11-17 00:24:18|Ben Tucker|Re: Trimtabs|Hi Yes lost a trimtab in exactly this way on a trip to tonga, big wave must have flexed the shaft enough to pop it out of its bottom bearing. not only did we have to hand steer for 5 days, also had to go over the side to unbolt the thing so we could actually steer, because it bent the shaft 90 degrees and was sticking out almost diabling the rudder, good job it happened well away from the coast! Cheers Ben| 6187|22|2004-11-17 01:09:18|origamiboats@yahoogroups.com|New file uploaded to origamiboats |Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the origamiboats group. File : /Mungo ll Uploaded by : toomanypocketts Description : MUNGO ll You can access this file at the URL: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/files/Mungo%20ll To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit: http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files Regards, toomanypocketts | 6188|6188|2004-11-17 03:20:39|sae140|Lattice mast|I've placed a graphic of a lattice mast into the Photos section, just for interest - dunno how good/bad this mast design is. Colin| 6189|6152|2004-11-17 07:57:33|Bill Jaine|Re: Ovens on board-anyone ever actually use it? :)|With the efficiency of modern inverters you have a valid point about microwave/convection type ovens, I do believe that they are somewhat limited when it comes to baking however a toaster oven may solve that issue. I�m just a pterodactyl who believes in Mho�s law that batteries always die when you need them most. We were on the boat at the end of the Murray Canal (Ontario Canada) when the big eastern power failure happened and felt so superior because we didn�t give a darn, we were totally isolated from any short term need of grid electricity. That�s why in addition to fluorescent/incandescent lights we also have oil lamps on board. Next thing are LED�s for running lights. Bill Port Hope. Canada -----Original Message----- From: seeratlas [mailto:seeratlas@...] Sent: 16-Nov-04 9:50 AM To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Ovens on board-anyone ever actually use it? :) :) A small microwave will do a BIG potato in about 7 minutes. Further, I'm not really doing without an oven as the 1. Will have the micro 2. will have the convection glass cooker. 3. will have a 'dutch' oven for the stove top. My glass convection whips the conventional oven all to hell in performance both as to time to cook, ease of cleaning, and energy efficiency. :) If you havn't tried one, you'll be amazed, but again, that's only because I've decided to go electrical and forget the gas. Diesel and a small external tank of gasoline for the outboard are all the fuels I plan to mess with, except maybe some solid fuel for long stretches at calm northern anchorages. :) One other advantage of the glass convection unit is that in the tropics, you can just set the unit on deck, run the cord to an outlet (I'll have a couple on the deck, in the cockpit etc.) and cook outside:) hard to beat for 80 bucks. seer --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Bill Jaine" wrote: > This is a little late but on topic. > > We would never be without our oven, when you're cold and hungry and tired > the oven is a lifesaver. In rough water a hot baked potato with butter is > as good as the best filet you've ever had. > > And the oven takes the damp out of a cool evening as you wait for dinner to > cook. The next accessory, that is a necessity, is a wife that can cook at 45 > degrees heel and serve a great meal when it's too rough for you to leave the > wheel, or tiller. > > > > Bill > > Port Hope. Canada > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: sae140 [mailto:colinpowell@f...] > Sent: 12-Nov-04 4:03 AM > To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Ovens on board-anyone ever actually use it? :) > > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "seeratlas" > wrote: > > > > I'm a firm believer in baja filters, fuel polishing systems, > multiple tanks with bottom sump draw off, and a day or header tank > with a dual inline fuel filter/water separator setup. > > You seem to have this stuff covered - I'd just like to chip in that I > once experienced diesel frothing whilst crossing over some shoal > ground during heavy weather. Baffles alone did not prove adequate > with half-full tanks, so modifying the system to provide a small > permanently-full 'draw-off' tank low down (with an air vent taken > high to ensure zero air in the tank) cured the problem. Presumably > this is what you mean by bottom sump draw-off ? > > > > If I may be so bold, electricity isn't really all that difficult to > do well on a boat, the problem is most pro boatbuilders screw it up > something awful. > > Like allowing pvc cables to come into direct contact with foam ? > > Colin > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > > ADVERTISEMENT > HYPERLINK > "HYPERLINK "http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=129e004mj/M=298184.5584357.6650215.3001176/D=gr "http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=129e004mj/M=298184.5584357.6650215.3001176/D=gr > oups/S=1705150872:HM/EXP=1100336600/A=2426685/R=0/SIG=11eslo8dq/*http:/www.n > etflix.com/Default?mqso=60185401"click here > > > HYPERLINK > "HYPERLINK "http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?M=298184.5584357.6650215.3001176/D=groups/S= "http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?M=298184.5584357.6650215.3001176/D=groups/S= > :HM/A=2426685/rand=460153551" > > > > _____ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > * To visit your group on the web, go to: > HYPERLINK > "HYPERLINK "http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/"http://groups.yahoo.com/group/o rigamiboats/"HYPERLINK "http://groups.yahoo.com/group/o"http://groups.yahoo.com/group/o > rigamiboats/ > > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > HYPERLINK > "mailto:origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe"origami > boats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the HYPERLINK > "HYPERLINK "http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/"http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/"Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > > --- > Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (HYPERLINK "http://www.grisoft.com)."http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.794 / Virus Database: 538 - Release Date: 10/11/2004 > > > > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (HYPERLINK "http://www.grisoft.com)."http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.796 / Virus Database: 540 - Release Date: 13/11/2004 > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT HYPERLINK "http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=129fg0vkh/M=298184.5584357.6650215.3001176/D=gr oups/S=1705150872:HM/EXP=1100703021/A=2426683/R=0/SIG=11eeoolb0/*http:/www.n etflix.com/Default?mqso=60185400"click here HYPERLINK "http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?M=298184.5584357.6650215.3001176/D=groups/S= :HM/A=2426683/rand=218616300" _____ Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: HYPERLINK "http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/"http://groups.yahoo.com/group/o rigamiboats/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HYPERLINK "mailto:origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe"origami boats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the HYPERLINK "http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/"Yahoo! Terms of Service. --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.796 / Virus Database: 540 - Release Date: 13/11/2004 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.796 / Virus Database: 540 - Release Date: 13/11/2004 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 6190|6152|2004-11-17 09:35:37|edward_stoneuk|Re: Ovens on board-anyone ever actually use it? :)|Using an engine to generate electricity to heat an oven means that with an engine efficiency of say 33% one needs 3 gallons of fuel to get 1 gallon worth of heat; the rest of the energy being lost in noise and waste heat from the engine. That said, a microwave oven is brilliant for cooking corn on the cob in its husk. 2 minutes steams it beautifully inside its husk. Then you peel back the husk to use as a handle to eat it with. I prefer baked potatoes done in a proper oven. They tend to go soggy in a microwave. Regards, Ted| 6191|6191|2004-11-17 10:28:57|johnkupris@aol.com|(no subject)|[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]| 6192|6192|2004-11-17 10:59:53|johnkupris@aol.com|ballast, not so simple|Brent's comment, "do not let an eigth grade education alter your boat plans", has rung a bell for me". My plans call for 7000 lbs ballast, is that in addition to the engine, fuel,water, interior,people and food for a voyage or do I subtract those items from that 7,000 lb. number? and maybe only install 4000 lbs ballast? I'm setting the boat up for voyaging but it will probably be used coastwise most of the time. Help... John [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]| 6193|6193|2004-11-17 15:05:21|jericoera|hull speed 36 foot aluminum?|I am a bit suprised no one knows the hull speed of a Swain 36 in Aluminum being that tis is the best forum on the subject. Understandably, most people have steel hulls so maybe that in part has created some confusion. At any rate, anyone with some specs in this area would be greatly appreciated. With the price of steel dramatically rising, I am not sure aluminum would be any more expensive over the life of the boat. Cheers| 6194|6192|2004-11-17 15:10:40|jericoera|Re: ballast, not so simple|John, the weight of the vessel is continually changing with provisions and equipment and spent fuel. When designers speak of ballast, they are referring to the amount of permanent weight you are adding example pouriing into the keel. Hope this helps. P.s. Displacement is different You may have 7000 pounds of ballast but with the weight of the entire boat plus crew and provisions, your combined displacement weight may be 20 000 pounds. Hope this is a simple explanation. If you are near Vancouver, there are foundrys that can pour ballast for you if you are not so inclined. Good luck with your project| 6195|6193|2004-11-17 15:18:27|seeratlas|Re: hull speed 36 foot aluminum?|Well, generally speaking, if you keep the same hull shape the fact that its in aluminum or steel would not be determinative. Theoretical max would be 1.34 of the square root of the length waterline. More reasonable cruise would be about 1.12 or so. In the files section of this group should be a reference to the BC company that has built aluminum swain boats. You might ask them for real world performance numbers for their completed boats. They also had an bare hull aluminum '39' version on the market for sometime. Don't know if that boat was sold or not. seer --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "jericoera" wrote: > > I am a bit suprised no one knows the hull speed of a Swain 36 in > Aluminum being that tis is the best forum on the subject. > Understandably, most people have steel hulls so maybe that in part > has created some confusion. > > At any rate, anyone with some specs in this area would be greatly > appreciated. With the price of steel dramatically rising, I am not > sure aluminum would be any more expensive over the life of the boat. > > Cheers | 6196|6193|2004-11-17 19:47:05|Jeff Halpern/ Laurie Burr|Re: hull speed 36 foot aluminum?|Whether the boat is steel or aluminum, for any displacement boat, hull speed is equal to 1.34 times the square root of the static waterline length. In a displacement boat, the real question is not 'what is the hull speed?', but what percentage of the time does a boat achieve hullspeed or anything near it. Modern boats, which tend to be quite long for their displacement, will often achieve and sustain a semi-displacement mode which can approach and even exceed 1.5 times the square root of the waterline length. Respectfully, Jeff ----- Original Message ----- From: "jericoera" To: Sent: Wednesday, November 17, 2004 3:05 PM Subject: [origamiboats] hull speed 36 foot aluminum? > > > I am a bit suprised no one knows the hull speed of a Swain 36 in > Aluminum being that tis is the best forum on the subject. > Understandably, most people have steel hulls so maybe that in part > has created some confusion. > > At any rate, anyone with some specs in this area would be greatly > appreciated. With the price of steel dramatically rising, I am not > sure aluminum would be any more expensive over the life of the boat. > > Cheers > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > | 6197|6197|2004-11-17 23:56:37|SHANE ROTHWELL|Re: Stoves on boats|Hi Colin, you mentioned PVC and foam dont go together... PVC is PVC wether it's electrical insualtion or tubing but just want to confirm that you are talking about 2 part polyeurathane foam used to spray the hull? Sorry, but have never heard of this problem. I assume that it is the PVC that breaks down & you end up with a helluva mess with leaking pipes or uninsulated wiring. Or is it the foam that goes bad? for wiring I have always gone with conduit (tho I don't know what material the conduit is made from...) do you figure painting pvc with latex paint would be enuf of protction? Please advise. Many thanks! Shane P.S. Although PVC is an environmental nightmare its bloody magic for things like a sight glass in diesel tanks ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca| 6198|6193|2004-11-18 01:57:30|jericoera|Re: hull speed 36 thanks|Thank you for the education on hull speed. I have looked all over for something ready to sail, but have found very little ilike in comparison to the Swain boats. I had the chance while working on Texada Island about 6 years ago to step aboard Brent's 31 footer and have been hokked ever since but too busy with work until now to follow the adventure. I am originally from Manitoba and as I recall Brent may have told me he was from Manitoba or the prairies. i figured if one prairie boy can not only sail but design boats, i should at least be able to learn to sail. i start my basic cruising course Friday! Carl McIntosh| 6199|6185|2004-11-18 04:55:17|Sailor|Re: 36 bilge keeler aluminum|What is the area? "jericoera" penned: > Also for anyone who cares, I have cheap ocean front property I am > selling to raise capital for the boat. | 6200|6193|2004-11-18 11:46:39|seeratlas|Re: hull speed 36 thanks|Carl, congrats on learning to sail and welcome to the group. I'd like to give you a couple of pieces of free advice on learning to sail. Take them for what they're worth. :) 1. start small. Learn in a small boat, the wind is the same for everyone and small boats experience smaller forces which means errant swinging booms hit less hard, broaches, jibes and capsizes aren't as catastrophic, and the theory applies from a sailing dinghy straight thru to a mega yacht. it's also cheaper :) 2. work on 'sailing state of mind'. wherever you decide to sail, develop a mindset early on and work on reinforcing it. Despite the tales of high adventure and danger on the high sea, I suggest it is equally if not more dangerous in many circumstances, in coastal and even inland waters. You may find, that the harbor is the most dangerous place you ever go.:) My own personal 'mindset' has delivered me from evil on too many occasions to mention. it goes something like this. a. sail defensively- there are a lot of tyros and a-holes who don't belong anywhere near the water, many will have bigger faster boats/ships than you (seems to be a some correlation in this regard :) heheheh. Assume they will do something stupid and put you in a pickle, BEFORE they get near enough to you to do it. AlWAYS have an escape plan...i.e. a plan to get out of the way and time to put it into action. One often heard comment in this regard is that despite any official law or rules, THE biggest boat has the right of way!!! period. You can insist on being right, and be run over. not worth it. b. Respect the water. The power of even a small current is amazing, especially when it runs up against something solid like a dock or the beach. When the sea gets big, the power is like nothing else on earth. c. Respect the weather. same story. and when the weather combines with the water...things can go life threatening in a hurry. d. Respect your boat. Maintenance, maintenance , maintenance. The time to fix stuff is not when you're in the weather out on the water. nuff said. e. Respect your own limitations. High seas, bad weather, too long of watches all diminish your ability to walk straight, think straight, and act rationally in an expedition manner. Don't put yourself in a situation which requires super human ability or powers.... ok. there's a ton more, but only one last one, "Morgan's Law number 1" "Fly the Plane !!!" or in this case..."SAIL THE BOAT!!!" This translates out to keep your mind on Job one...if you fail that one, all the other 'stuff' going on won't matter. I could go on and on but I think you get the point. If you can get your head around the foregoing, you'll last long enough to learn to love sailing and the sea. There are few other endeavors in life which put you in the ring one on one, with the forces of nature. It's your choice to learn to work WITH them, or perhaps perish trying to work AGAINST them...and while the danger can be immense, the potential rewards outweigh them. :) You will find that the voyage is not just an exploration of the sea...but an exploration of yourself. In that regard I refer you to the Bretton Fisherman's prayer, "Lord, thy sea is so vast and my ship is so small".... now that is all they usually publish, but here's the rest of it usually left out... "And my ship in the harbor would be safe....... But that.. Is not what ships are built for..." :) good luck seer -- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "jericoera" wrote: > > Thank you for the education on hull speed. I have looked all over > for something ready to sail, but have found very little ilike in > comparison to the Swain boats. I had the chance while working on > Texada Island about 6 years ago to step aboard Brent's 31 footer and > have been hokked ever since but too busy with work until now to > follow the adventure. I am originally from Manitoba and as I recall > Brent may have told me he was from Manitoba or the prairies. i > figured if one prairie boy can not only sail but design boats, i > should at least be able to learn to sail. i start my basic cruising > course Friday! > > Carl McIntosh | 6201|6193|2004-11-18 13:10:21|Jeff Halpern/ Laurie Burr|Re: hull speed 36 thanks|Carl, Seer has said a mouthful of very sage advice. I would simply want to add, buy a small, inexpensive, simple, responsive, used production boat to learn on. You will not only learn how to sail but also what you want out of a boat. In more cases than not, you will probably learn that the 'ultimate' boat that seemed to make so much sense to you before you knew how to sail will seem totally inappropriate once you have been sailing for a while.Also, buying a new production boat, or far worse yet building a custom boat, means making a shipload of decisions and if you do not even know how to sail, you won't have a sound basis for those decisions. Respectfully, Jeff ----- Original Message ----- From: "seeratlas" To: Sent: Thursday, November 18, 2004 11:45 AM Subject: [origamiboats] Re: hull speed 36 thanks > > > Carl, > congrats on learning to sail and welcome to the group. > I'd like to give you a couple of pieces of free advice on learning to > sail. Take them for what they're worth. :) > > 1. start small. Learn in a small boat, the wind is the same for > everyone and small boats experience smaller forces which means errant > swinging booms hit less hard, broaches, jibes and capsizes aren't as > catastrophic, and the theory applies from a sailing dinghy straight > thru to a mega yacht. it's also cheaper :) > > 2. work on 'sailing state of mind'. wherever you decide to sail, > develop a mindset early on and work on reinforcing it. Despite the > tales of high adventure and danger on the high sea, I suggest it is > equally if not more dangerous in many circumstances, in coastal and > even inland waters. You may find, that the harbor is the most > dangerous place you ever go.:) My own personal 'mindset' has > delivered me from evil on too many occasions to mention. it goes > something like this. > a. sail defensively- there are a lot of tyros and a-holes who don't > belong anywhere near the water, many will have bigger faster > boats/ships than you (seems to be a some correlation in this regard :) > heheheh. Assume they will do something stupid and put you in a > pickle, BEFORE they get near enough to you to do it. AlWAYS have an > escape plan...i.e. a plan to get out of the way and time to put it > into action. One often heard comment in this regard is that despite > any official law or rules, THE biggest boat has the right of way!!! > period. You can insist on being right, and be run over. not worth it. > > b. Respect the water. The power of even a small current is amazing, > especially when it runs up against something solid like a dock or the > beach. When the sea gets big, the power is like nothing else on > earth. > > c. Respect the weather. same story. and when the weather combines > with the water...things can go life threatening in a hurry. > > d. Respect your boat. Maintenance, maintenance , maintenance. The > time to fix stuff is not when you're in the weather out on the water. > nuff said. > > e. Respect your own limitations. High seas, bad weather, too long of > watches all diminish your ability to walk straight, think straight, > and act rationally in an expedition manner. Don't put yourself in a > situation which requires super human ability or powers.... > > ok. there's a ton more, but only one last one, "Morgan's Law number 1" > > "Fly the Plane !!!" or in this case..."SAIL THE BOAT!!!" This > translates out to keep your mind on Job one...if you fail that one, > all the other 'stuff' going on won't matter. > > I could go on and on but I think you get the point. If you can get > your head around the foregoing, you'll last long enough to learn to > love sailing and the sea. There are few other endeavors in life which > put you in the ring one on one, with the forces of nature. It's your > choice to learn to work WITH them, or perhaps perish trying to work > AGAINST them...and while the danger can be immense, the potential > rewards outweigh them. :) You will find that the voyage is not just an > exploration of the sea...but an exploration of yourself. > > In that regard I refer you to the Bretton Fisherman's prayer, > > "Lord, thy sea is so vast and my ship is so small".... > > now that is all they usually publish, but here's the rest of it > usually left out... > > "And my ship in the harbor would be safe....... > But that.. > Is not what ships are built for..." > > :) > > good luck > seer > > > -- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "jericoera" > wrote: > > > > Thank you for the education on hull speed. I have looked all over > > for something ready to sail, but have found very little ilike in > > comparison to the Swain boats. I had the chance while working on > > Texada Island about 6 years ago to step aboard Brent's 31 footer > and > > have been hokked ever since but too busy with work until now to > > follow the adventure. I am originally from Manitoba and as I recall > > Brent may have told me he was from Manitoba or the prairies. i > > figured if one prairie boy can not only sail but design boats, i > > should at least be able to learn to sail. i start my basic cruising > > course Friday! > > > > Carl McIntosh > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > | 6202|6193|2004-11-18 17:44:20|richytill|Re: hull speed 36 thanks|Reading this caused me to reflect that: I learned fast about: currents and movement in water by white-water canoeing; wind and sails in a 12" dinghy, priniples of rigging from mountaineering, coastal cruising in a CAL 25 and so on. Small gets the point accross quick. rt -- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff Halpern/ Laurie Burr" wrote: > Carl, > > Seer has said a mouthful of very sage advice. I would simply want to add, > buy a small, inexpensive, simple, responsive, used production boat to learn > on. You will not only learn how to sail but also what you want out of a > boat. In more cases than not, you will probably learn that the 'ultimate' > boat that seemed to make so much sense to you before you knew how to sail > will seem totally inappropriate once you have been sailing for a while.Also, > buying a new production boat, or far worse yet building a custom boat, means > making a shipload of decisions and if you do not even know how to sail, you > won't have a sound basis for those decisions. > > Respectfully, > Jeff > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "seeratlas" > To: > Sent: Thursday, November 18, 2004 11:45 AM > Subject: [origamiboats] Re: hull speed 36 thanks > > > > > > > > Carl, > > congrats on learning to sail and welcome to the group. > > I'd like to give you a couple of pieces of free advice on learning to > > sail. Take them for what they're worth. :) > > > > 1. start small. Learn in a small boat, the wind is the same for > > everyone and small boats experience smaller forces which means errant > > swinging booms hit less hard, broaches, jibes and capsizes aren't as > > catastrophic, and the theory applies from a sailing dinghy straight > > thru to a mega yacht. it's also cheaper :) > > > > 2. work on 'sailing state of mind'. wherever you decide to sail, > > develop a mindset early on and work on reinforcing it. Despite the > > tales of high adventure and danger on the high sea, I suggest it is > > equally if not more dangerous in many circumstances, in coastal and > > even inland waters. You may find, that the harbor is the most > > dangerous place you ever go.:) My own personal 'mindset' has > > delivered me from evil on too many occasions to mention. it goes > > something like this. > > a. sail defensively- there are a lot of tyros and a-holes who don't > > belong anywhere near the water, many will have bigger faster > > boats/ships than you (seems to be a some correlation in this regard :) > > heheheh. Assume they will do something stupid and put you in a > > pickle, BEFORE they get near enough to you to do it. AlWAYS have an > > escape plan...i.e. a plan to get out of the way and time to put it > > into action. One often heard comment in this regard is that despite > > any official law or rules, THE biggest boat has the right of way!!! > > period. You can insist on being right, and be run over. not worth it. > > > > b. Respect the water. The power of even a small current is amazing, > > especially when it runs up against something solid like a dock or the > > beach. When the sea gets big, the power is like nothing else on > > earth. > > > > c. Respect the weather. same story. and when the weather combines > > with the water...things can go life threatening in a hurry. > > > > d. Respect your boat. Maintenance, maintenance , maintenance. The > > time to fix stuff is not when you're in the weather out on the water. > > nuff said. > > > > e. Respect your own limitations. High seas, bad weather, too long of > > watches all diminish your ability to walk straight, think straight, > > and act rationally in an expedition manner. Don't put yourself in a > > situation which requires super human ability or powers.... > > > > ok. there's a ton more, but only one last one, "Morgan's Law number 1" > > > > "Fly the Plane !!!" or in this case..."SAIL THE BOAT!!!" This > > translates out to keep your mind on Job one...if you fail that one, > > all the other 'stuff' going on won't matter. > > > > I could go on and on but I think you get the point. If you can get > > your head around the foregoing, you'll last long enough to learn to > > love sailing and the sea. There are few other endeavors in life which > > put you in the ring one on one, with the forces of nature. It's your > > choice to learn to work WITH them, or perhaps perish trying to work > > AGAINST them...and while the danger can be immense, the potential > > rewards outweigh them. :) You will find that the voyage is not just an > > exploration of the sea...but an exploration of yourself. > > > > In that regard I refer you to the Bretton Fisherman's prayer, > > > > "Lord, thy sea is so vast and my ship is so small".... > > > > now that is all they usually publish, but here's the rest of it > > usually left out... > > > > "And my ship in the harbor would be safe....... > > But that.. > > Is not what ships are built for..." > > > > :) > > > > good luck > > seer > > > > > > -- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "jericoera" > > wrote: > > > > > > Thank you for the education on hull speed. I have looked all over > > > for something ready to sail, but have found very little ilike in > > > comparison to the Swain boats. I had the chance while working on > > > Texada Island about 6 years ago to step aboard Brent's 31 footer > > and > > > have been hokked ever since but too busy with work until now to > > > follow the adventure. I am originally from Manitoba and as I recall > > > Brent may have told me he was from Manitoba or the prairies. i > > > figured if one prairie boy can not only sail but design boats, i > > > should at least be able to learn to sail. i start my basic cruising > > > course Friday! > > > > > > Carl McIntosh > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > | 6203|6203|2004-11-18 18:21:49|Puck III|For Carl : a good read about boating|http://tinyurl.com/3t59q , I hope you like it :-) Old Ben| 6204|6203|2004-11-18 19:31:41|seeratlas|Re: For Carl : a good read about boating|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III" wrote: > > http://tinyurl.com/3t59q , I hope you like it :-) > Old Ben A good read indeed. Thanks for that ben. seer| 6205|6184|2004-11-18 19:38:46|richytill|Stick to plans|Brent, as an experimenter by nature I have deviated from the plan in building MY ISLAND. This venture rests on 37 years of practical experience in industry and a life-time around the water. The boat floats well on its' lines and I like it. All this said, these experiments cost time and money. I would strongly urge anyone anxious to get to sea to stick to the plans. Every deviation here has cost much time, occasionally extra materials and sometimes money. Time is by far the greatest loss. The VW / Borg Warner /underwater exhaust experiment is almost concluded. It has taken a year of my spare time (whatever that is) to put the motor/drive unit together. Will post results soon. Although MY ISLAND came out fine, welding/fabricating a flush deck is not a project for the amatuer--again better to stick to the plan. For best results: if it works, don't fix it. rt --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "brentswain38" wrote: > > I just watched one of my 36 footers being launched . It floated over > six inches low in the stern. The owner had built a 600 lb tank under > the cockpit. It would take roughly 700 lbs under the forepeak berth > to set her level.There is no way mast, rig and anchors will do that. > Another owner built 150 gallons of steel tankage under the > wheelhouse floor. He has to run with them empty as 1500 lbs there > would set the stern a long way down, and there is no easy way to > remove them. > Don't build heavy tankage under your cockpit. There is no surer way > to kill a boat's windward performance than excess weight in the ends. > A ten gallon day tank under the foreward end of the cockpit is a good > idea, but 600 lbs of tankage in the end of a boat is a bad idea. > It's not a good idea to let someone with a grade eight education re- > design a well proven boat. > Stick to the plans! > Brent Swain | 6207|22|2004-11-18 21:20:15|origamiboats@yahoogroups.com|New file uploaded to origamiboats |Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the origamiboats group. File : /STDLoveClub.html Uploaded by : madanalily122 Description : Enjoy enormous selfless love, share the same concern, conquer the same fear in http://www.positivesingles.com/i/07 You can access this file at the URL: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/files/STDLoveClub.html To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit: http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files Regards, madanalily122 | 6208|6193|2004-11-18 23:50:35|fmichael graham|Re: hull speed 36 thanks|Carl: When I was in the Navy, the bulk of my buddies were from the prairie provinces. Go figure! Once the sailing bug bites, most don't go back to "stinkpots" until they're too old to raise sail! Congratulations! I hope your course is one in a long line of enjoyable marine experiences. Good Luck! Mike jericoera wrote: Thank you for the education on hull speed. I have looked all over for something ready to sail, but have found very little ilike in comparison to the Swain boats. I had the chance while working on Texada Island about 6 years ago to step aboard Brent's 31 footer and have been hokked ever since but too busy with work until now to follow the adventure. I am originally from Manitoba and as I recall Brent may have told me he was from Manitoba or the prairies. i figured if one prairie boy can not only sail but design boats, i should at least be able to learn to sail. i start my basic cruising course Friday! Carl McIntosh To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT --------------------------------- Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. --------------------------------- Post your free ad now! Yahoo! Canada Personals [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]| 6209|6203|2004-11-19 00:24:40|kingsknight4life|Re: For Carl : a good read about boating|Ben. It's funny that you posted the URL to that story. I just lent brent my book, that has that story in the appendix. It's a great story and I re-read it often. Rowland| 6210|6203|2004-11-19 01:05:58|jericoera|Re: Wow, much to learn , Carl|Thanks everybody, sounds like some sound logic in your words of experience. As it turns out, my training will be on a C&C 25. I am reading what ever I can get my ands on and will once up to speed hopefully in the new year start crewing in the weekend races with some somewhat patient skippers and literally learn the ropes. My course will help with that somewhat I hope. On the subject of Swain boats, I am near certain I saw one in the Comox harbour today maybe two. It looked like a 36 foot beige pilothouse and I saw a green older metal boat that sat in the water the same around 31 feet but could not be sure if it was a Swain. Both were in the "free parking" so I assume at least that as close to the shore as they were that they were bilge keelers. I never knew how to ride a horse two years ago and I bought one and won the first race I entered. I think you just have to get out there and do it (and safely as possible) Thanks, Carl| 6211|6185|2004-11-19 13:33:56|jericoera|Reply to sailor|Sailor, I acknowledge that this is not a real estate board and do not want to pump my property on it but as the proceeds are intended for a professionally made Swain,I will indulge and reply to you and hopefully not upst the moderator or others. Forgiveness requested! The Oceanfront I have is 6.33 acres right smack on the Bras dors Lakes in Nova Scotia which is in fact the world's largest in land sea and rated as the third best cruising grounds world wide by Cruising World Magazine which has posted numerous articles on the area. Its great because besides excellent wind and protected waters, I have deep water moorage available in front of the property so one could easily summer in the Bras Dor and then sail south to the Caribean or other parts. All services are to the lot line and property taxes are only a whopping $212 per year.I have not logged it, but the view would be magnificant and unobstructed with some logging which would be necessary for a building site. A variety of hard and softwoods on the property plus a neat pond that has water fowl in it periodically. The property continues to appreciate and will go up more substantially as the area becomes more developed with permanent residents. 15 minutes from St. Peters which has just updated their yacht club extensively. An excellent East coast property. Oh yeah, only $50 000 CDN plus HST (Nova Scotia harmonized Sales Tax) I promise, no more plugs on the property-- Just want to raise some Swain bucks. Carl McIntosh home email for more info shakeena@... ph 604 485-0339 --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Sailor" wrote: > What is the area? > > "jericoera" penned: > > Also for anyone who cares, I have cheap ocean front property I am > > selling to raise capital for the boat. | 6212|6185|2004-11-19 17:06:46|fmichael graham|Re: Reply to sailor|Carl, et al: Now I wish I hadn't bought my property in Prince George, B.C.! For those interested, I spent most of a year out that way, at the Coast Guard College in Sydney(enough y's?) and, if ever chased out of B.C., would be heading for Cape Breton, specifically Bras Dor lakes. Beautiful doesn't begin to describe the area & the local residents are second to none. It must be hard for you to part with your land, Carl. Good luck on the sale, as you must be giving up one dream to pursue another. Is St. Peters home to the North Sydney Yacht Club? I don't remember the name (St. Peters) but any waterfront on the lakes is worth having, just ask Alexander Graham Bell. Regards, Mike Graham jericoera wrote: Sailor, I acknowledge that this is not a real estate board and do not want to pump my property on it but as the proceeds are intended for a professionally made Swain,I will indulge and reply to you and hopefully not upst the moderator or others. Forgiveness requested! The Oceanfront I have is 6.33 acres right smack on the Bras dors Lakes in Nova Scotia which is in fact the world's largest in land sea and rated as the third best cruising grounds world wide by Cruising World Magazine which has posted numerous articles on the area. Its great because besides excellent wind and protected waters, I have deep water moorage available in front of the property so one could easily summer in the Bras Dor and then sail south to the Caribean or other parts. All services are to the lot line and property taxes are only a whopping $212 per year.I have not logged it, but the view would be magnificant and unobstructed with some logging which would be necessary for a building site. A variety of hard and softwoods on the property plus a neat pond that has water fowl in it periodically. The property continues to appreciate and will go up more substantially as the area becomes more developed with permanent residents. 15 minutes from St. Peters which has just updated their yacht club extensively. An excellent East coast property. Oh yeah, only $50 000 CDN plus HST (Nova Scotia harmonized Sales Tax) I promise, no more plugs on the property-- Just want to raise some Swain bucks. Carl McIntosh home email for more info shakeena@... ph 604 485-0339 --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Sailor" wrote: > What is the area? > > "jericoera" penned: > > Also for anyone who cares, I have cheap ocean front property I am > > selling to raise capital for the boat. To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT --------------------------------- Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. --------------------------------- Post your free ad now! Yahoo! Canada Personals [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 6213|6185|2004-11-19 17:19:01|jericoera|Re: Reply to initiaboats|Mike, I am not certain if it is the North Sydney yacht club or not, but it is listed on the web if you type in St. Peters Yacht club Nova scotia or St. Peters Yact club Cape Breton. Gorgeous facility and very close to my property....and yes, can't have everything so I am making a difficult decision. Work will keep me on the West coast for the forseeable future, so figure I may as well be learning to sail and build up my skill level. That is also why foolish or otherwise I am having a liveaboard built as my first boat though I will be keeping systems very simple and functional and easy to maintain. My wife and I have plans of living on the water sooner than later. I also agree Alexander Graham Bell was no dummy and he found paradise on the Bras dors -- the Cape Breton people are very friendly and treat you like family. I think we could all learn from their fine example. Carl --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, fmichael graham wrote: > Carl, et al: > Now I wish I hadn't bought my property in Prince George, B.C.! For those interested, I spent most of a year out that way, at the Coast Guard College in Sydney(enough y's?) and, if ever chased out of B.C., would be heading for Cape Breton, specifically Bras Dor lakes. Beautiful doesn't begin to describe the area & the local residents are second to none. It must be hard for you to part with your land, Carl. Good luck on the sale, as you must be giving up one dream to pursue another. Is St. Peters home to the North Sydney Yacht Club? I don't remember the name (St. Peters) but any waterfront on the lakes is worth having, just ask Alexander Graham Bell. > Regards, > Mike Graham > > > jericoera wrote: > > Sailor, I acknowledge that this is not a real estate board and do > not want to pump my property on it but as the proceeds are intended > for a professionally made Swain,I will indulge and reply to you and > hopefully not upst the moderator or others. Forgiveness requested! > > The Oceanfront I have is 6.33 acres right smack on the Bras dors > Lakes in Nova Scotia which is in fact the world's largest in land > sea and rated as the third best cruising grounds world wide by > Cruising World Magazine which has posted numerous articles on the > area. > > Its great because besides excellent wind and protected waters, I > have deep water moorage available in front of the property so one > could easily summer in the Bras Dor and then sail south to the > Caribean or other parts. All services are to the lot line and > property taxes are only a whopping $212 per year.I have not logged > it, but the view would be magnificant and unobstructed with some > logging which would be necessary for a building site. A variety of > hard and softwoods on the property plus a neat pond that has water > fowl in it periodically. > > The property continues to appreciate and will go up more > substantially as the area becomes more developed with permanent > residents. 15 minutes from St. Peters which has just updated their > yacht club extensively. An excellent East coast property. > > Oh yeah, only $50 000 CDN plus HST (Nova Scotia harmonized Sales Tax) > > I promise, no more plugs on the property-- Just want to raise some > Swain bucks. > > Carl McIntosh > home email for more info shakeena@s... > ph 604 485-0339 > > > > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Sailor" wrote: > > What is the area? > > > > "jericoera" penned: > > > Also for anyone who cares, I have cheap ocean front property I > am > > > selling to raise capital for the boat. > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats- unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT > > > --------------------------------- > Yahoo! Groups Links > > To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/ > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > > > > --------------------------------- > Post your free ad now! Yahoo! Canada Personals > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 6214|6185|2004-11-19 18:46:15|fmichael graham|Re: Reply to initiaboats|Carl: A word from the wisened: My wife & I lived aboard my Cal 330 for three years. For the last year, I was tearing the interior out & refurbishing it, section by section, for offshore sailing. At the last moment, my wife bailed on our pending trip, leaving me to go solo. Though we didn't split up over this, I still get dirty looks whenever I hold up my latest issue of Boat Journal & point at a boat that "I think we could afford". Ergo, make sure your wife is really, no, I mean REALLY, as into it, as you are. In fact, there should be some place a guy can take his wife for a lie-detector test when discussing such issues! I'm curious, why aren't you building your own? Mike jericoera wrote: Mike, I am not certain if it is the North Sydney yacht club or not, but it is listed on the web if you type in St. Peters Yacht club Nova scotia or St. Peters Yact club Cape Breton. Gorgeous facility and very close to my property....and yes, can't have everything so I am making a difficult decision. Work will keep me on the West coast for the forseeable future, so figure I may as well be learning to sail and build up my skill level. That is also why foolish or otherwise I am having a liveaboard built as my first boat though I will be keeping systems very simple and functional and easy to maintain. My wife and I have plans of living on the water sooner than later. I also agree Alexander Graham Bell was no dummy and he found paradise on the Bras dors -- the Cape Breton people are very friendly and treat you like family. I think we could all learn from their fine example. Carl --------------------------------- Post your free ad now! Yahoo! Canada Personals [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]| 6215|6185|2004-11-19 19:10:45|Michael Casling|Re: Reply to initiaboats|Take what other Mike said as Gospel. My wife likes sailing and has sailed with me for over 20 years, but when it comes to going offshore, well I am on my own, and she will take a European vacation. Michael ----- Original Message ----- From: fmichael graham To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, November 19, 2004 3:46 PM Subject: Re: [origamiboats] Re: Reply to initiaboats Carl: A word from the wisened: My wife & I lived aboard my Cal 330 for three years. For the last year, I was tearing the interior out & refurbishing it, section by section, for offshore sailing. At the last moment, my wife bailed on our pending trip, leaving me to go solo. Though we didn't split up over this, I still get dirty looks whenever I hold up my latest issue of Boat Journal & point at a boat that "I think we could afford". Ergo, make sure your wife is really, no, I mean REALLY, as into it, as you are. In fact, there should be some place a guy can take his wife for a lie-detector test when discussing such issues! I'm curious, why aren't you building your own? Mike [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 6216|6185|2004-11-19 19:50:06|seeratlas|Re: Reply to initiaboats|It can be very instructive to search out the used boat market in San Diego. It's amazing how many men talk/cajole their ladies into the idea of a world cruise, then spend years acquring, building, outfitting the dream boat, head off shore from Seattle, Portland, San Francisco, Los Angeles, or even Newport Beach...get caught in one lousy storm along the coast and you can almost on any day head down to the marina's in San Diego, scan the incoming boats with binoculars, and look for a woman with a "GET MY AZZ OFF THIS GAWD D*MNED BOAT!!!" look on her face. More often than not, the moment that boat touches the dock, she's stalking off yelling over her shoulder that either the boat gets sold, or its divorce time (in which case the boat usually gets sold also). Some amazing bargains can be snapped up if you're johnny on the spot with the cash. Sad, but all too often true. I mention this inlight of the previous poster's comment regarding a lie detector test for a potential mate's affinity for deep water sailing LOL. Only way to make sure? find a woman who sails as well or better than you in the first place :) Good luck tho, not enough of em out there, but worth their weight in platinum if you can find one... I'm only half 'funnin' here as a mistake here can be extraordinarily expensive. I've almost concluded that marital mate shopping should be limited to port cities, preferably from a good fishing, naval, merchant marine, or otherwise ocean going family, (tho there are adventurous kindred souls occasionaly located inland:) and if you don't want to put up with a lot of 'backbiting', a smaller more remote port city community will hold more promise for finding not merely a 'first mate' but someone you'll come to think of more as a 'co-captain':) And THAT will make more difference in the pleasure of your cruising life than ANY choice of boat/rig/ or equipment you could ever imagine. Don't believe me? Ponder this.... Even notice that when you're with someone you really don't 'like' , doesn't matter how good she looks, how wonderful the circumstances, the trip just sucks? and vice-versa..ever notice how when you're with someone you REALLY enjoy being around, that it really doesn't matter one whit WHAT you're doing, or where you're doing it? Add in a well found ship, a fair wind, and an unexplored (by you) destination, and you have reached the pinnacle of what this life has to offer. The first starlit night's watch will have you thanking providence for the glory of existence, and pitying the rest of us :) seer -- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, fmichael graham wrote: > Carl: > A word from the wisened: > My wife & I lived aboard my Cal 330 for three years. For the last year, I was tearing the interior out & refurbishing it, section by section, for offshore sailing. At the last moment, my wife bailed on our pending trip, leaving me to go solo. Though we didn't split up over this, I still get dirty looks whenever I hold up my latest issue of Boat Journal & point at a boat that "I think we could afford". Ergo, make sure your wife is really, no, I mean REALLY, as into it, as you are. In fact, there should be some place a guy can take his wife for a lie-detector test when discussing such issues! > I'm curious, why aren't you building your own? > Mike > > > jericoera wrote: > > Mike, I am not certain if it is the North Sydney yacht club or not, > but it is listed on the web if you type in St. Peters Yacht club > Nova scotia or St. Peters Yact club Cape Breton. Gorgeous facility > and very close to my property....and yes, can't have everything so I > am making a difficult decision. Work will keep me on the West coast > for the forseeable future, so figure I may as well be learning to > sail and build up my skill level. > > That is also why foolish or otherwise I am having a liveaboard built > as my first boat though I will be keeping systems very simple and > functional and easy to maintain. My wife and I have plans of living > on the water sooner than later. > > I also agree Alexander Graham Bell was no dummy and he found > paradise on the Bras dors -- the Cape Breton people are very > friendly and treat you like family. I think we could all learn from > their fine example. > > Carl > > > > > --------------------------------- > Post your free ad now! Yahoo! Canada Personals > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 6217|6185|2004-11-19 19:57:52|Michael Casling|Re: Reply to initiaboats|You planning on being a marriage councillor and match maker as well as a boat builder? I have decided that the boat is the easy part. Michael ----- Original Message ----- From: seeratlas To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, November 19, 2004 4:48 PM Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Reply to initiaboats It can be very instructive to search out the used boat market in San Diego. It's amazing how many men talk/cajole their ladies into the idea of a world cruise, then spend years acquring, building, outfitting the dream boat, head off shore from Seattle, Portland, San Francisco, Los Angeles, or even Newport Beach...get caught in one lousy storm along the coast and you can almost on any day head down to the marina's in San Diego, scan the incoming boats with binoculars, and look for a woman with a "GET MY AZZ OFF THIS GAWD D*MNED BOAT!!!" look on her face. More often than not, the moment that boat touches the dock, she's stalking off yelling over her shoulder that either the boat gets sold, or its divorce time (in which case the boat usually gets sold also). Some amazing bargains can be snapped up if you're johnny on the spot with the cash. Sad, but all too often true. I mention this inlight of the previous poster's comment regarding a lie detector test for a potential mate's affinity for deep water sailing LOL. Only way to make sure? find a woman who sails as well or better than you in the first place :) Good luck tho, not enough of em out there, but worth their weight in platinum if you can find one... I'm only half 'funnin' here as a mistake here can be extraordinarily expensive. I've almost concluded that marital mate shopping should be limited to port cities, preferably from a good fishing, naval, merchant marine, or otherwise ocean going family, (tho there are adventurous kindred souls occasionaly located inland:) and if you don't want to put up with a lot of 'backbiting', a smaller more remote port city community will hold more promise for finding not merely a 'first mate' but someone you'll come to think of more as a 'co-captain':) And THAT will make more difference in the pleasure of your cruising life than ANY choice of boat/rig/ or equipment you could ever imagine. Don't believe me? Ponder this.... Even notice that when you're with someone you really don't 'like' , doesn't matter how good she looks, how wonderful the circumstances, the trip just sucks? and vice-versa..ever notice how when you're with someone you REALLY enjoy being around, that it really doesn't matter one whit WHAT you're doing, or where you're doing it? Add in a well found ship, a fair wind, and an unexplored (by you) destination, and you have reached the pinnacle of what this life has to offer. The first starlit night's watch will have you thanking providence for the glory of existence, and pitying the rest of us :) seer [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 6218|6185|2004-11-19 21:02:40|seeratlas|Re: Reply to initiaboats|No offense meant Michael :) As I stated, "i'm only half funnin here"... Realistically, I thought your discussion raised a point well worth a point of emphasis. I have strolled those docks in San Diego, Even met a couple that after 6 years of marriage exploded in a squall on the maiden cruise between Long Beach and Dana Point where she stalked off the boat, and promptly filed for divorce. As for marriage counselor, well, I think any captain is wise to exercise caution and due diligence in the selection of his crew, hehehe especially if the crew is legally capable of 'sinking' his ship and any dreams relating thereto. LOL. A reflection on the times we live in. seer --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Michael Casling wrote: > You planning on being a marriage councillor and match maker as well as a boat builder? I have decided that the boat is the easy part. > Michael > ----- Original Message ----- > From: seeratlas > To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Friday, November 19, 2004 4:48 PM > Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Reply to initiaboats > > > > It can be very instructive to search out the used boat market in San > Diego. > It's amazing how many men talk/cajole their ladies into the idea of a > world cruise, then spend years acquring, building, outfitting the > dream boat, head off shore from Seattle, Portland, San Francisco, Los > Angeles, or even Newport Beach...get caught in one lousy storm along > the coast and you can almost on any day head down to the marina's in > San Diego, scan the incoming boats with binoculars, and look for a > woman with a "GET MY AZZ OFF THIS GAWD D*MNED BOAT!!!" look on her > face. More often than not, the moment that boat touches the dock, > she's stalking off yelling over her shoulder that either the boat gets > sold, or its divorce time (in which case the boat usually gets sold > also). Some amazing bargains can be snapped up if you're johnny on > the spot with the cash. Sad, but all too often true. > > I mention this inlight of the previous poster's comment regarding a > lie detector test for a potential mate's affinity for deep water > sailing LOL. Only way to make sure? find a woman who sails as well or > better than you in the first place :) Good luck tho, not enough of em > out there, but worth their weight in platinum if you can find one... > I'm only half 'funnin' here as a mistake here can be extraordinarily > expensive. > > I've almost concluded that marital mate shopping should be limited to > port cities, preferably from a good fishing, naval, merchant marine, > or otherwise ocean going family, (tho there are adventurous kindred > souls occasionaly located inland:) and if you don't want to put up > with a lot of 'backbiting', a smaller more remote port city community > will hold more promise for finding not merely a 'first mate' but > someone you'll come to think of more as a 'co-captain':) And THAT > will make more difference in the pleasure of your cruising life than > ANY choice of boat/rig/ or equipment you could ever imagine. Don't > believe me? > Ponder this.... > > Even notice that when you're with someone you really don't 'like' , > doesn't matter how good she looks, how wonderful the circumstances, > the trip just sucks? and vice-versa..ever notice how when you're with > someone you REALLY enjoy being around, that it really doesn't matter > one whit WHAT you're doing, or where you're doing it? Add in a well > found ship, a fair wind, and an unexplored (by you) destination, and > you have reached the pinnacle of what this life has to offer. The > first starlit night's watch will have you thanking providence for the > glory of existence, and pitying the rest of us :) > > seer > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 6219|6185|2004-11-19 21:15:13|Michael Casling|Re: Reply to initiaboats|I did not take offence, my note reads more harsh than it was meant to be. Humour does not jump from the key board I guess. Let me put it another way, I agree with your post. Michael ----- Original Message ----- From: seeratlas To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, November 19, 2004 6:01 PM Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Reply to initiaboats No offense meant Michael :) As I stated, "i'm only half funnin here"... Realistically, I thought your discussion raised a point well worth a point of emphasis. I have strolled those docks in San Diego, Even met a couple that after 6 years of marriage exploded in a squall on the maiden cruise between Long Beach and Dana Point where she stalked off the boat, and promptly filed for divorce. As for marriage counselor, well, I think any captain is wise to exercise caution and due diligence in the selection of his crew, hehehe especially if the crew is legally capable of 'sinking' his ship and any dreams relating thereto. LOL. A reflection on the times we live in. seer [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 6220|6220|2004-11-19 22:28:20|seeratlas|Composting toilets|Has anyone any experience with these things? My experience with marine heads is less than favorable. I've been on boats with the std. porcelain head/ holding tank setup to the Lectra-san treatment models and frankly was less than happy. Brent mentioned to me once that I should take a look at the composting jobs and having done that with the Sun Mar units, I'm rather surprised that they might actually work. Lot's of testimonials on the website, but I was wondering if anyone has any first person knowledge of these things in the marine environment. thankx in advance. seer| 6221|6221|2004-11-19 23:25:13|jericoera|A reflection on your comments|You all have given some food for thought about relationship dynamics and life aboard. While some people's wives may be afraid to die and cling desperately to shore, my wife and I have always sought adventure and we are more terrified of not living. I would think it safe to say we all agree that time is not our friend, it is working against us every minute of our lives. Therefore, it should not be squandered. Every day should be something to behold. Carl| 6222|6222|2004-11-19 23:28:45|jericoera|Why am I not building?|Someone asked me why I am not building the boat myself. I will undoubtedly do the interior to my liking but have never bothered to learn to weld though I intend to this winter. Up until now, I haven't required the skill as all my good friends are proficient welders. My buddies and I have always helped each other out building stuff so I have always sought learning skills that they don't already have and vice versa.. Carl| 6223|6185|2004-11-20 02:20:56|Ben Tucker|Re: Reply to initiaboats|Hi carl, mike and the rest of you, Women on boats! I have found my self in the same situation, The english girl I lived with went through a rigorous testing regime before selection, she was cook on the square rigger I worked on, she had taken sailing lessons before I met her and had prevously circumnavigated tasmania on another square rigger. A good start. Turns out she finds sailing boring!!(or maybe just me!) how can you argue with that, she's given it a good go, two pacific trips, a trans tasman and two handed sydney-hobart, plus lots of coastal cruising and living aboard, guess she's a city girl at heart and doesn't like the isolation. thought I'd mention this because athough alot of women blame the scary momments I think the bordom and isolation, plus a feeling of not being in control or being able to get off the boat is a factor. Cheers Ben > Carl: > A word from the wisened: > My wife & I lived aboard my Cal 330 for three years. For the last year, I was tearing the interior out & refurbishing it, section by section, for offshore sailing. At the last moment, my wife bailed on our pending trip, leaving me to go solo. Though we didn't split up over this, I still get dirty looks whenever I hold up my latest issue of Boat Journal & point at a boat that "I think we could afford". Ergo, make sure your wife is really, no, I mean REALLY, as into it, as you are. In fact, there should be some place a guy can take his wife for a lie-detector test when discussing such issues! > I'm curious, why aren't you building your own? > Mike | 6224|6224|2004-11-20 02:57:10|James Douglas|Women|I have always noticed that the pussy cats always turn up around a guy that's having a good time of life. Chances are if your single now you'll probably have all the attention you need after you've launched and started sailing. If you meet one before that time who'll pitch in and help... well you've got a trooper on your hands and your probably made for life....honestly. So I'm saving myself for that day....see next post. Jim douglas| 6225|6225|2004-11-20 03:40:16|James Douglas|33 foot Simpson metal hull acquired.|Well after so so soooo long sitting on the bench I did it. I bought a 33 Simpson designed metal hull. Found this one listed in the Buy Sell for Alberta, got fotos and then I snapped up the deal!! No more armchairs for me!!! No, she is not orgami, but I will be seriously considering the practical solutions proposed by Brent and others in this group for all the different aspects of building a well equiped and fitted out metal boat. For the moment she has a spade keel and a trunk cabin and I would like to convert her so she sports bilge keels and a pilot house...She's a blank canvas willing to accept all the different improvements so earnestly discussed by this group. So I hope you won't kick me out. I have two concerns. First, if any members are in the vicinity of North Vancouver do they any one have any ideas as to where one can rent an inexpensive work site for the boat for, say, less than $200/month? Secondly, any ideas on how to move the boat cheaply from Calgary to Vancouver. She weighs about 10,000 lbs. with an 11 foot beam and probably under 13 foot high with her 5 foot draft. If one could one tow it themselves, how big/powerful a truck would you need? Thanks in advance and I know I should have found these things out before but it was a very good deal and I just could not pass it up, sooo...here we are!! Jim Douglas| 6226|6222|2004-11-20 10:19:05|fmichael graham|Re: Why am I not building?|Carl: One alternative method to the dilemna of doing it yourself, versus having an established builder do it for you, is to "manage" the project. Example: I enjoy collecting cars & can do any mechanical work myself. Though I weld, I am no body man. As I wish to learn to do body work, I plan to hire a retired, extremely talented bodyman to perform the work on my next project, with me in tow. Translating this to building one of Brent's - or anyone's - designs, you could hire a retired welder to do the actual welding - teaching you as he/she goes - while you do the "grunt" work. In a recent conversation with a former head instructor at BCIT, a man who was forced to resign after a car accident left him quite "banged-up", I suggested that he could still share his knowledge by observing students as they weld & telling them what they should do to correct problems with their welds. This guy still has a lot to offer the student welder & would probably jump at the chance to make himself useful. The thing about welding is that, over the years, the physical toll on our bodies from 8hr./day, or more, of climbing on, crawling over/under, & hanging from steel structures, combined with breathing in all sorts of gases, leaves most of us worn out by the time we hit our fifties. It is too bad, as this is the time when most of us can truly consider ourselves "Master Welders". True, managing the construction of your boat would require you to arrange a suitable building site, the equipment, materials, etc., but, you would learn more than if you contracted the work, you would have ultimate control over the project, and you would probably find that you were ahead financially at the end. I am going to view a 2,000 sq. ft. shop, today, for my various projects, including origamiboat construction. I understand that many builders arrange for Brent Swain to "oversee" their projects, for a fee. If this avenue interests you, I formed a group; "BC Welders", that you might wish to join for the purpose of finding people who might be interested in working on this project with you. One of the BC Welders members is an instructor who plans to retire in the next year & can weld any material/any process better than anyone else I have seen, and I have seen a lot of great welders in my time. Welding is a lot like sailing; once it's in your blood, it's hard to hang the stinger up. Anyway, just a thought. On another topic, I was having a bit of a laugh at your expense. Thanks to Michael & Seer, I sat, sipping my rum & reading the posts last night & laughing my Ass off! Great fun! If your wife is as enthusiastic as you seem to be in building a boat, you'd better not bring her near any of us or we might be trying to steal her away from you! Again, good luck with the land sale, if I had the money to invest, I'd be jumping at the opportunity but, alas, all of my extra "dosh" goes to developing properties in B.C. & the Philippines. Regards, Mike jericoera wrote: Someone asked me why I am not building the boat myself. I will undoubtedly do the interior to my liking but have never bothered to learn to weld though I intend to this winter. Up until now, I haven't required the skill as all my good friends are proficient welders. My buddies and I have always helped each other out building stuff so I have always sought learning skills that they don't already have and vice versa.. Carl To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT --------------------------------- Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. --------------------------------- Post your free ad now! Yahoo! Canada Personals [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]| 6227|6222|2004-11-20 10:19:09|fmichael graham|Re: Why am I not building?|Carl: One alternative method to the dilemna of doing it yourself, versus having an established builder do it for you, is to "manage" the project. Example: I enjoy collecting cars & can do any mechanical work myself. Though I weld, I am no body man. As I wish to learn to do body work, I plan to hire a retired, extremely talented bodyman to perform the work on my next project, with me in tow. Translating this to building one of Brent's - or anyone's - designs, you could hire a retired welder to do the actual welding - teaching you as he/she goes - while you do the "grunt" work. In a recent conversation with a former head instructor at BCIT, a man who was forced to resign after a car accident left him quite "banged-up", I suggested that he could still share his knowledge by observing students as they weld & telling them what they should do to correct problems with their welds. This guy still has a lot to offer the student welder & would probably jump at the chance to make himself useful. The thing about welding is that, over the years, the physical toll on our bodies from 8hr./day, or more, of climbing on, crawling over/under, & hanging from steel structures, combined with breathing in all sorts of gases, leaves most of us worn out by the time we hit our fifties. It is too bad, as this is the time when most of us can truly consider ourselves "Master Welders". True, managing the construction of your boat would require you to arrange a suitable building site, the equipment, materials, etc., but, you would learn more than if you contracted the work, you would have ultimate control over the project, and you would probably find that you were ahead financially at the end. I am going to view a 2,000 sq. ft. shop, today, for my various projects, including origamiboat construction. I understand that many builders arrange for Brent Swain to "oversee" their projects, for a fee. If this avenue interests you, I formed a group; "BC Welders", that you might wish to join for the purpose of finding people who might be interested in working on this project with you. One of the BC Welders members is an instructor who plans to retire in the next year & can weld any material/any process better than anyone else I have seen, and I have seen a lot of great welders in my time. Welding is a lot like sailing; once it's in your blood, it's hard to hang the stinger up. Anyway, just a thought. On another topic, I was having a bit of a laugh at your expense. Thanks to Michael & Seer, I sat, sipping my rum & reading the posts last night & laughing my Ass off! Great fun! If your wife is as enthusiastic as you seem to be in building a boat, you'd better not bring her near any of us or we might be trying to steal her away from you! Again, good luck with the land sale, if I had the money to invest, I'd be jumping at the opportunity but, alas, all of my extra "dosh" goes to developing properties in B.C. & the Philippines. Regards, Mike jericoera wrote: Someone asked me why I am not building the boat myself. I will undoubtedly do the interior to my liking but have never bothered to learn to weld though I intend to this winter. Up until now, I haven't required the skill as all my good friends are proficient welders. My buddies and I have always helped each other out building stuff so I have always sought learning skills that they don't already have and vice versa.. Carl To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT --------------------------------- Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. --------------------------------- Post your free ad now! Yahoo! Canada Personals [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]| 6228|6222|2004-11-20 10:19:13|fmichael graham|Re: Why am I not building?|Carl: One alternative method to the dilemna of doing it yourself, versus having an established builder do it for you, is to "manage" the project. Example: I enjoy collecting cars & can do any mechanical work myself. Though I weld, I am no body man. As I wish to learn to do body work, I plan to hire a retired, extremely talented bodyman to perform the work on my next project, with me in tow. Translating this to building one of Brent's - or anyone's - designs, you could hire a retired welder to do the actual welding - teaching you as he/she goes - while you do the "grunt" work. In a recent conversation with a former head instructor at BCIT, a man who was forced to resign after a car accident left him quite "banged-up", I suggested that he could still share his knowledge by observing students as they weld & telling them what they should do to correct problems with their welds. This guy still has a lot to offer the student welder & would probably jump at the chance to make himself useful. The thing about welding is that, over the years, the physical toll on our bodies from 8hr./day, or more, of climbing on, crawling over/under, & hanging from steel structures, combined with breathing in all sorts of gases, leaves most of us worn out by the time we hit our fifties. It is too bad, as this is the time when most of us can truly consider ourselves "Master Welders". True, managing the construction of your boat would require you to arrange a suitable building site, the equipment, materials, etc., but, you would learn more than if you contracted the work, you would have ultimate control over the project, and you would probably find that you were ahead financially at the end. I am going to view a 2,000 sq. ft. shop, today, for my various projects, including origamiboat construction. I understand that many builders arrange for Brent Swain to "oversee" their projects, for a fee. If this avenue interests you, I formed a group; "BC Welders", that you might wish to join for the purpose of finding people who might be interested in working on this project with you. One of the BC Welders members is an instructor who plans to retire in the next year & can weld any material/any process better than anyone else I have seen, and I have seen a lot of great welders in my time. Welding is a lot like sailing; once it's in your blood, it's hard to hang the stinger up. Anyway, just a thought. On another topic, I was having a bit of a laugh at your expense. Thanks to Michael & Seer, I sat, sipping my rum & reading the posts last night & laughing my Ass off! Great fun! If your wife is as enthusiastic as you seem to be in building a boat, you'd better not bring her near any of us or we might be trying to steal her away from you! Again, good luck with the land sale, if I had the money to invest, I'd be jumping at the opportunity but, alas, all of my extra "dosh" goes to developing properties in B.C. & the Philippines. Regards, Mike jericoera wrote: Someone asked me why I am not building the boat myself. I will undoubtedly do the interior to my liking but have never bothered to learn to weld though I intend to this winter. Up until now, I haven't required the skill as all my good friends are proficient welders. My buddies and I have always helped each other out building stuff so I have always sought learning skills that they don't already have and vice versa.. Carl To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT --------------------------------- Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. --------------------------------- Post your free ad now! Yahoo! Canada Personals [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]| 6229|6225|2004-11-20 10:41:01|fmichael graham|Re: 33 foot Simpson metal hull acquired.|Jim: Way to go! Well, you certainly jumped into that one! Being that I have a Mother whom is a required accountant, you don't really fit the mould by making such a snap decision(LOL). If I take a lease on the shop I'm looking at today, you'd be welcome to use part of the parking lot for your boat. I'll post later if I go for it. The builder of "Prairie Maid" - sorry Bud, your name has momentarily slipped my mind - may have some transportation thoughts for you. You'll probably need to have a transport co. bring her out, the railway might be a consideration. The problem with a work area will be finding one that allows you to work metal. I suggest you contact Shelter Island Marina, as I see a number of metal jobs going on there by private owners & Bracewell Boat Works. They have a web site but, as I am typing, I see that my Wife has made a mega pile out of my "dream material" & stashed my latest Boat Journal somewhere in that teetering mess, so you'll have to search it yourself. Good luck, Mike James Douglas wrote: Well after so so soooo long sitting on the bench I did it. I bought a 33 Simpson designed metal hull. Found this one listed in the Buy Sell for Alberta, got fotos and then I snapped up the deal!! No more armchairs for me!!! No, she is not orgami, but I will be seriously considering the practical solutions proposed by Brent and others in this group for all the different aspects of building a well equiped and fitted out metal boat. For the moment she has a spade keel and a trunk cabin and I would like to convert her so she sports bilge keels and a pilot house...She's a blank canvas willing to accept all the different improvements so earnestly discussed by this group. So I hope you won't kick me out. I have two concerns. First, if any members are in the vicinity of North Vancouver do they any one have any ideas as to where one can rent an inexpensive work site for the boat for, say, less than $200/month? Secondly, any ideas on how to move the boat cheaply from Calgary to Vancouver. She weighs about 10,000 lbs. with an 11 foot beam and probably under 13 foot high with her 5 foot draft. If one could one tow it themselves, how big/powerful a truck would you need? Thanks in advance and I know I should have found these things out before but it was a very good deal and I just could not pass it up, sooo...here we are!! Jim Douglas To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor Get unlimited calls to U.S./Canada --------------------------------- Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. --------------------------------- Post your free ad now! Yahoo! Canada Personals [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]| 6230|6222|2004-11-20 10:46:05|Courtney Thomas|Re: Why am I not building?|I have been considering an air filtration [Allegro -5 user] device that filters compressor air to U.S./Canadian gov. standards for the purpose of avoiding welding environment gases. Is this adequate for avoiding the respiratory harm to which welders are subject ? If it's worthwhile, which hoods/masks would you recommend be used with such a device ? Appreciatively, Courtney Thomas fmichael graham wrote: > Carl: > One alternative method to the dilemna of doing it yourself, versus having an established builder do it for you, is to "manage" the project. Example: I enjoy collecting cars & can do any mechanical work myself. Though I weld, I am no body man. As I wish to learn to do body work, I plan to hire a retired, extremely talented bodyman to perform the work on my next project, with me in tow. > > Translating this to building one of Brent's - or anyone's - designs, you could hire a retired welder to do the actual welding - teaching you as he/she goes - while you do the "grunt" work. In a recent conversation with a former head instructor at BCIT, a man who was forced to resign after a car accident left him quite "banged-up", I suggested that he could still share his knowledge by observing students as they weld & telling them what they should do to correct problems with their welds. This guy still has a lot to offer the student welder & would probably jump at the chance to make himself useful. > > The thing about welding is that, over the years, the physical toll on our bodies from 8hr./day, or more, of climbing on, crawling over/under, & hanging from steel structures, combined with breathing in all sorts of gases, leaves most of us worn out by the time we hit our fifties. It is too bad, as this is the time when most of us can truly consider ourselves "Master Welders". > > True, managing the construction of your boat would require you to arrange a suitable building site, the equipment, materials, etc., but, you would learn more than if you contracted the work, you would have ultimate control over the project, and you would probably find that you were ahead financially at the end. I am going to view a 2,000 sq. ft. shop, today, for my various projects, including origamiboat construction. I understand that many builders arrange for Brent Swain to "oversee" their projects, for a fee. If this avenue interests you, I formed a group; "BC Welders", that you might wish to join for the purpose of finding people who might be interested in working on this project with you. > > One of the BC Welders members is an instructor who plans to retire in the next year & can weld any material/any process better than anyone else I have seen, and I have seen a lot of great welders in my time. Welding is a lot like sailing; once it's in your blood, it's hard to hang the stinger up. Anyway, just a thought. > > On another topic, I was having a bit of a laugh at your expense. Thanks to Michael & Seer, I sat, sipping my rum & reading the posts last night & laughing my Ass off! Great fun! If your wife is as enthusiastic as you seem to be in building a boat, you'd better not bring her near any of us or we might be trying to steal her away from you! Again, good luck with the land sale, if I had the money to invest, I'd be jumping at the opportunity but, alas, all of my extra "dosh" goes to developing properties in B.C. & the Philippines. > > Regards, > Mike > > > jericoera wrote: > > Someone asked me why I am not building the boat myself. I will > undoubtedly do the interior to my liking but have never bothered to > learn to weld though I intend to this winter. Up until now, I > haven't required the skill as all my good friends are proficient > welders. My buddies and I have always helped each other out building > stuff so I have always sought learning skills that they don't > already have and vice versa.. > > > Carl > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT > > > --------------------------------- > Yahoo! Groups Links > > To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/ > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > > > > --------------------------------- > Post your free ad now! Yahoo! Canada Personals > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > -- s/v Mutiny Rhodes Bounty II lying Oriental, NC WDB5619| 6231|6231|2004-11-20 10:49:28|Mike|Why am I.../33 foot Simpson...|All: Sorry for the multiple posts. Please, don't take my mouse away. Jim: www.shelterislandmarina.com Mike| 6232|6222|2004-11-20 10:57:16|Mike|Re: Why am I not building?|Courtney: You can pick up a respirator system at any welding supply store for Can$25 and up. I don't use a respirator which is a disappointment to my neighbours when I walk my dog to the park at 5am each morning, hacking & wheezing all the way. Regards, Mike(cough, cough) --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Courtney Thomas wrote: > I have been considering an air filtration [Allegro -5 user] device that > filters compressor air to U.S./Canadian gov. standards for the purpose > of avoiding welding environment gases. > > Is this adequate for avoiding the respiratory harm to which welders are > subject ? > > If it's worthwhile, which hoods/masks would you recommend be used with > such a device ? > > Appreciatively, > Courtney Thomas > | 6233|6225|2004-11-20 10:58:07|Courtney Thomas|Re: 33 foot Simpson metal hull acquired.|I bought a tractor-trailer rig off Ebay for less than $5K that would easily haul your boat. You could also store her and work on her anywhere on the trailer. In fact you would then be in the flexible position of storing her at your convenience and when through..... have the flexibility of moving her about at will to suit you, not marinas, boat yards, mooring arrangements, etc. Also good for winter storage. If you get one with a sleeper [I did] you can also warmly sleep at the boat or haul her long distances at relatively little cost. Should also facilitate a boat sale later as well. If all that's not enough, you can sell the rig when you decide you no longer need it. An old unit like I bought is not gonna go down anymore in price, so there's virtually no depreciation. Also, in case you don't know, there's no additional license required as long as you only haul your own stuff. No permitting, etc.. And with only liability insurance, it's not expensive to own. I had never driven one, but it's no big deal. Just arrange for some off road room 'til you get used to the tractor, then tractor with empty trailer, then.........loaded up. :-) HTH, Courtney James Douglas wrote: > > Well after so so soooo long sitting on the bench I did it. I bought > a 33 Simpson designed metal hull. Found this one listed in the Buy > Sell for Alberta, got fotos and then I snapped up the deal!! No more > armchairs for me!!! > > No, she is not orgami, but I will be seriously considering the > practical solutions proposed by Brent and others in this group for > all the different aspects of building a well equiped and fitted out > metal boat. > > For the moment she has a spade keel and a trunk cabin and I would > like to convert her so she sports bilge keels and a pilot > house...She's a blank canvas willing to accept all the different > improvements so earnestly discussed by this group. So I hope you > won't kick me out. > > I have two concerns. First, if any members are in the vicinity of > North Vancouver do they any one have any ideas as to where one can > rent an inexpensive work site for the boat for, say, less than > $200/month? Secondly, any ideas on how to move the boat cheaply > from Calgary to Vancouver. She weighs about 10,000 lbs. with an 11 > foot beam and probably under 13 foot high with her 5 foot draft. If > one could one tow it themselves, how big/powerful a truck would you > need? > > Thanks in advance and I know I should have found these things out > before but it was a very good deal and I just could not pass it up, > sooo...here we are!! > > Jim Douglas > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > -- s/v Mutiny Rhodes Bounty II lying Oriental, NC WDB5619| 6234|6225|2004-11-20 11:16:31|James Douglas|Re: 33 foot Simpson metal hull acquired.|Re: Parking Lot. Keep me posted, this made be workable. I have considered Shelter Island too but it's a good hour away from North Van. --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, fmichael graham wrote: > Jim: > Way to go! Well, you certainly jumped into that one! Being that I have a Mother whom is a required accountant, you don't really fit the mould by making such a snap decision(LOL). If I take a lease on the shop I'm looking at today, you'd be welcome to use part of the parking lot for your boat. I'll post later if I go for it. > > The builder of "Prairie Maid" - sorry Bud, your name has momentarily slipped my mind - may have some transportation thoughts for you. You'll probably need to have a transport co. bring her out, the railway might be a consideration. > > The problem with a work area will be finding one that allows you to work metal. I suggest you contact Shelter Island Marina, as I see a number of metal jobs going on there by private owners & Bracewell Boat Works. They have a web site but, as I am typing, I see that my Wife has made a mega pile out of my "dream material" & stashed my latest Boat Journal somewhere in that teetering mess, so you'll have to search it yourself. > > Good luck, > Mike > > James Douglas wrote: > > Well after so so soooo long sitting on the bench I did it. I bought > a 33 Simpson designed metal hull. Found this one listed in the Buy > Sell for Alberta, got fotos and then I snapped up the deal!! No more > armchairs for me!!! > > No, she is not orgami, but I will be seriously considering the > practical solutions proposed by Brent and others in this group for > all the different aspects of building a well equiped and fitted out > metal boat. > > For the moment she has a spade keel and a trunk cabin and I would > like to convert her so she sports bilge keels and a pilot > house...She's a blank canvas willing to accept all the different > improvements so earnestly discussed by this group. So I hope you > won't kick me out. > > I have two concerns. First, if any members are in the vicinity of > North Vancouver do they any one have any ideas as to where one can > rent an inexpensive work site for the boat for, say, less than > $200/month? Secondly, any ideas on how to move the boat cheaply > from Calgary to Vancouver. She weighs about 10,000 lbs. with an 11 > foot beam and probably under 13 foot high with her 5 foot draft. If > one could one tow it themselves, how big/powerful a truck would you > need? > > Thanks in advance and I know I should have found these things out > before but it was a very good deal and I just could not pass it up, > sooo...here we are!! > > Jim Douglas > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats- unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > Get unlimited calls to > > U.S./Canada > > > --------------------------------- > Yahoo! Groups Links > > To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/ > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > > > > --------------------------------- > Post your free ad now! Yahoo! Canada Personals > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 6235|6225|2004-11-20 11:49:23|Michael Casling|Re: 33 foot Simpson metal hull acquired.|I have my 28 foot plastic boat outside, brought it home yesterday, the truck weighs 5300 the boat 7400 trailer 3100 cradle 400 and fluids and other stuff 400 and that is 16600 pounds about the maximum GVW for a good 3/4 ton truck. A one ton is a bit better, but I would suggest at least a two ton truck and a flat deck trailer. You can build a shipping cradle. If you own the cradle and trailer you can use it as a work bench. That is what I do, I can work on the boat all winter and move it as required, also have a lifting rig made from old power poles. Michael ----- Original Message ----- From: James Douglas To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, November 20, 2004 12:39 AM Subject: [origamiboats] 33 foot Simpson metal hull acquired. Well after so so soooo long sitting on the bench I did it. I bought a 33 Simpson designed metal hull. Found this one listed in the Buy Sell for Alberta, got fotos and then I snapped up the deal!! No more armchairs for me!!! No, she is not orgami, but I will be seriously considering the practical solutions proposed by Brent and others in this group for all the different aspects of building a well equiped and fitted out metal boat. For the moment she has a spade keel and a trunk cabin and I would like to convert her so she sports bilge keels and a pilot house...She's a blank canvas willing to accept all the different improvements so earnestly discussed by this group. So I hope you won't kick me out. I have two concerns. First, if any members are in the vicinity of North Vancouver do they any one have any ideas as to where one can rent an inexpensive work site for the boat for, say, less than $200/month? Secondly, any ideas on how to move the boat cheaply from Calgary to Vancouver. She weighs about 10,000 lbs. with an 11 foot beam and probably under 13 foot high with her 5 foot draft. If one could one tow it themselves, how big/powerful a truck would you need? Thanks in advance and I know I should have found these things out before but it was a very good deal and I just could not pass it up, sooo...here we are!! Jim Douglas To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor Get unlimited calls to U.S./Canada ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links a.. To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/ b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 6236|6225|2004-11-20 11:55:40|James Douglas|Re: 33 foot Simpson metal hull acquired.|Thanks Courtney, This is a little gem of info...especially about the sleeper. It's quite a bit to invest but, as you pointed out it wouldn't depreciate. Also, it doesn't take one long to realize that storage and transportation can turn out to be a hugh percentage of your built cost if you're not careful. Another alluring twist on this is that one could pretty much turn a full sized boat into a "trailer sailor" and trailer her to different cruising areas; Pacific Northwest to Great Lakes to Florida to.... It'd definitely put a new slant on Kitchen Sink Camping as well! So, Courtney, I gather your on the East Coast somewhere? How far ar you along with your Boat? Jim Douglas North Vancouver, B.C. --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Courtney Thomas wrote: > I bought a tractor-trailer rig off Ebay for less than $5K that would > easily haul your boat. You could also store her and work on her anywhere > on the trailer. In fact you would then be in the flexible position of > storing her at your convenience and when through..... have the > flexibility of moving her about at will to suit you, not marinas, boat > yards, mooring arrangements, etc. Also good for winter storage. > > If you get one with a sleeper [I did] you can also warmly sleep at the > boat or haul her long distances at relatively little cost. Should also > facilitate a boat sale later as well. > > If all that's not enough, you can sell the rig when you decide you no > longer need it. An old unit like I bought is not gonna go down anymore > in price, so there's virtually no depreciation. > > Also, in case you don't know, there's no additional license required as > long as you only haul your own stuff. No permitting, etc.. And with only > liability insurance, it's not expensive to own. > > I had never driven one, but it's no big deal. Just arrange for some off > road room 'til you get used to the tractor, then tractor with empty > trailer, then.........loaded up. :-) > > HTH, > Courtney > > > > James Douglas wrote: > > > > > Well after so so soooo long sitting on the bench I did it. I bought > > a 33 Simpson designed metal hull. Found this one listed in the Buy > > Sell for Alberta, got fotos and then I snapped up the deal!! No more > > armchairs for me!!! > > > > No, she is not orgami, but I will be seriously considering the > > practical solutions proposed by Brent and others in this group for > > all the different aspects of building a well equiped and fitted out > > metal boat. > > > > For the moment she has a spade keel and a trunk cabin and I would > > like to convert her so she sports bilge keels and a pilot > > house...She's a blank canvas willing to accept all the different > > improvements so earnestly discussed by this group. So I hope you > > won't kick me out. > > > > I have two concerns. First, if any members are in the vicinity of > > North Vancouver do they any one have any ideas as to where one can > > rent an inexpensive work site for the boat for, say, less than > > $200/month? Secondly, any ideas on how to move the boat cheaply > > from Calgary to Vancouver. She weighs about 10,000 lbs. with an 11 > > foot beam and probably under 13 foot high with her 5 foot draft. If > > one could one tow it themselves, how big/powerful a truck would you > > need? > > > > Thanks in advance and I know I should have found these things out > > before but it was a very good deal and I just could not pass it up, > > sooo...here we are!! > > > > Jim Douglas > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats- unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > s/v Mutiny > Rhodes Bounty II > lying Oriental, NC > WDB5619 | 6237|6225|2004-11-20 12:08:15|James Douglas|Re: 33 foot Simpson metal hull acquired.|Thanks Michael, You and the group are giving me all sorts of goods ideas to consider. When people start telling you freight out from Calgary is going to cost between $2 to $4,000 it actually means it will more likely be $5,000 in the end. So, it's probably time to consider buying a rig. jim Douglas --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Michael Casling wrote: > I have my 28 foot plastic boat outside, brought it home yesterday, the truck weighs 5300 the boat 7400 trailer 3100 cradle 400 and fluids and other stuff 400 and that is 16600 pounds about the maximum GVW for a good 3/4 ton truck. A one ton is a bit better, but I would suggest at least a two ton truck and a flat deck trailer. You can build a shipping cradle. If you own the cradle and trailer you can use it as a work bench. That is what I do, I can work on the boat all winter and move it as required, also have a lifting rig made from old power poles. > Michael > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: James Douglas > To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Saturday, November 20, 2004 12:39 AM > Subject: [origamiboats] 33 foot Simpson metal hull acquired. > > > > Well after so so soooo long sitting on the bench I did it. I bought > a 33 Simpson designed metal hull. Found this one listed in the Buy > Sell for Alberta, got fotos and then I snapped up the deal!! No more > armchairs for me!!! > > No, she is not orgami, but I will be seriously considering the > practical solutions proposed by Brent and others in this group for > all the different aspects of building a well equiped and fitted out > metal boat. > > For the moment she has a spade keel and a trunk cabin and I would > like to convert her so she sports bilge keels and a pilot > house...She's a blank canvas willing to accept all the different > improvements so earnestly discussed by this group. So I hope you > won't kick me out. > > I have two concerns. First, if any members are in the vicinity of > North Vancouver do they any one have any ideas as to where one can > rent an inexpensive work site for the boat for, say, less than > $200/month? Secondly, any ideas on how to move the boat cheaply > from Calgary to Vancouver. She weighs about 10,000 lbs. with an 11 > foot beam and probably under 13 foot high with her 5 foot draft. If > one could one tow it themselves, how big/powerful a truck would you > need? > > Thanks in advance and I know I should have found these things out > before but it was a very good deal and I just could not pass it up, > sooo...here we are!! > > Jim Douglas > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats- unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > Get unlimited calls to > > U.S./Canada > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------- > Yahoo! Groups Links > > a.. To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/ > > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 6238|6225|2004-11-20 12:13:30|Courtney Thomas|Re: 33 foot Simpson metal hull acquired.|Jim, At my age I bought one to sail while I put together all the pieces to build one..... I did it all backwards, initially. If I had it all to do again, I'd: 1-get a place to store and anchor the boat [free, i.e. own the place] 2-get the tractor-trailer 3-get the boat The good news is that wisdom can come from dysfunctional experience :-) You can be sure that the cost of ownership is going to take a bit bite out of the pleasure of sailing unless... you nail down the above implied costs, i.e. marinas, boatyards, moorings, winter storage, hauling, maintenance and more....not to mention how much time will be expended dealing with all these moving targets :-( Yep, trailer sailor you could be, no matter what size boat. I'm on an island off Cape Breton near the entrance to the Bras d'Or Lakes and the Strait of Canso. Cordially, Courtney James Douglas wrote: > > Thanks Courtney, > > This is a little gem of info...especially about the sleeper. It's > quite a bit to invest but, as you pointed out it wouldn't > depreciate. Also, it doesn't take one long to realize that storage > and transportation can turn out to be a hugh percentage of your > built cost if you're not careful. > > Another alluring twist on this is that one could pretty much turn a > full sized boat into a "trailer sailor" and trailer her to different > cruising areas; Pacific Northwest to Great Lakes to Florida to.... > It'd definitely put a new slant on Kitchen Sink Camping as well! > > So, Courtney, I gather your on the East Coast somewhere? How far ar > you along with your Boat? > > Jim Douglas > North Vancouver, B.C. > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Courtney Thomas > wrote: > >>I bought a tractor-trailer rig off Ebay for less than $5K that >> > would > >>easily haul your boat. You could also store her and work on her >> > anywhere > >>on the trailer. In fact you would then be in the flexible position >> > of > >>storing her at your convenience and when through..... have the >>flexibility of moving her about at will to suit you, not marinas, >> > boat > >>yards, mooring arrangements, etc. Also good for winter storage. >> >>If you get one with a sleeper [I did] you can also warmly sleep at >> > the > >>boat or haul her long distances at relatively little cost. Should >> > also > >>facilitate a boat sale later as well. >> >>If all that's not enough, you can sell the rig when you decide you >> > no > >>longer need it. An old unit like I bought is not gonna go down >> > anymore > >>in price, so there's virtually no depreciation. >> >>Also, in case you don't know, there's no additional license >> > required as > >>long as you only haul your own stuff. No permitting, etc.. And >> > with only > >>liability insurance, it's not expensive to own. >> >>I had never driven one, but it's no big deal. Just arrange for >> > some off > >>road room 'til you get used to the tractor, then tractor with >> > empty > >>trailer, then.........loaded up. :-) >> >>HTH, >>Courtney >> >> >> >>James Douglas wrote: >> >> >>>Well after so so soooo long sitting on the bench I did it. I >>> > bought > >>>a 33 Simpson designed metal hull. Found this one listed in the >>> > Buy > >>>Sell for Alberta, got fotos and then I snapped up the deal!! No >>> > more > >>>armchairs for me!!! >>> >>>No, she is not orgami, but I will be seriously considering the >>>practical solutions proposed by Brent and others in this group >>> > for > >>>all the different aspects of building a well equiped and fitted >>> > out > >>>metal boat. >>> >>>For the moment she has a spade keel and a trunk cabin and I >>> > would > >>>like to convert her so she sports bilge keels and a pilot >>>house...She's a blank canvas willing to accept all the different >>>improvements so earnestly discussed by this group. So I hope >>> > you > >>>won't kick me out. >>> >>>I have two concerns. First, if any members are in the vicinity >>> > of > >>>North Vancouver do they any one have any ideas as to where one >>> > can > >>>rent an inexpensive work site for the boat for, say, less than >>>$200/month? Secondly, any ideas on how to move the boat >>> > cheaply > >>>from Calgary to Vancouver. She weighs about 10,000 lbs. with an >>> > 11 > >>>foot beam and probably under 13 foot high with her 5 foot >>> > draft. If > >>>one could one tow it themselves, how big/powerful a truck would >>> > you > >>>need? >>> >>>Thanks in advance and I know I should have found these things >>> > out > >>>before but it was a very good deal and I just could not pass it >>> > up, > >>>sooo...here we are!! >>> >>>Jim Douglas >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com >>>To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats- >>> > unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > >>>Yahoo! Groups Links >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >>-- >>s/v Mutiny >>Rhodes Bounty II >>lying Oriental, NC >>WDB5619 >> > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > -- s/v Mutiny Rhodes Bounty II lying Oriental, NC WDB5619| 6239|5765|2004-11-20 17:49:42|edward_stoneuk|Re: Cabin and deck beam ends|Brent, Would that be the same for the cabin roof beams? If they are not welded to the cabin sides the ends can be chamfered to ease painting and save a couple of ounces. Regards, Ted --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "brentswain38" wrote: > > The deck support pipes at the mast and further aft make welding the > ends of the deck beams to the hull unnecessary and totally > redundant.Welding them to the hull would also cause distortion. The > cabinsides are beams on edge, so as long as they are connected to the > chine at four points , there is no possibility of any movement at the > hull deck joint.The beam extensions that Roberts suggests are > cantilevered, whereas deck support posts are under compression loads > and are thus much stronger. > Brent | 6240|6220|2004-11-20 19:25:15|d.mccomber@comcast.net|Re: Composting toilets|seer Check out just how large a unit you need to support 2 full time liveabord people. There adds are for weekend use only. When I considered this option I found that the size unit required was prohibitive. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]| 6241|6203|2004-11-20 19:42:05|Puck III|Re: For Carl : another good read about boating|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "seeratlas" wrote: > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III" wrote: > > > > http://tinyurl.com/3t59q , I hope you like it :-) > > Old Ben > > A good read indeed. Thanks for that ben. > > seer Hehehe Female Prayer: Before I lay me down to sleep, I pray for a man, who's not a creep, One who's handsome, smart and strong, One who loves to listen long, One who thinks before he speaks, One who'll call, not wait for weeks. I pray he's gainfully employed, When I spend his cash, won't be annoyed Pulls out my chair and opens my door, Massages my back and begs to do more. Oh! Send me a man who'll make love to my mind, Knows what to answer to "How big is my behind?" I pray that this man will love me to no end, And always be my very best friend. Amen. Male Prayer: I pray for a deaf-mute nymphomaniac with huge boobs who owns a liquor store and a bass boat. Amen| 6242|6203|2004-11-20 19:52:12|Puck III|Re: For Carl : another good read about boating|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "seeratlas" wrote: > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III" wrote: > > > > http://tinyurl.com/3t59q , I hope you like it :-) > > Old Ben > > A good read indeed. Thanks for that ben. > > seer Hehehe Female Prayer: Before I lay me down to sleep, I pray for a man, who's not a creep, One who's handsome, smart and strong, One who loves to listen long, One who thinks before he speaks, One who'll call, not wait for weeks. I pray he's gainfully employed, When I spend his cash, won't be annoyed Pulls out my chair and opens my door, Massages my back and begs to do more. Oh! Send me a man who'll make love to my mind, Knows what to answer to "How big is my behind?" I pray that this man will love me to no end, And always be my very best friend. Amen. Male Prayer: I pray for a deaf-mute nymphomaniac with huge boobs who owns a liquor store and a bass boat. Amen| 6243|6220|2004-11-20 20:27:22|jim dorey|Re: Composting toilets|On Sat, 20 Nov 2004 23:46:33 +0000, wrote: > seer > Check out just how large a unit you need to support 2 full time > liveabord people. > There adds are for weekend use only. > When I considered this option I found that the size unit required was > prohibitive. try vacuum dessication. you know how much room coffee takes up when it's dried, in comparison to wet. empty a bag of powder into city septic when you get a chance, save tons of space. -- Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/| 6244|6220|2004-11-20 21:34:11|seeratlas|Re: Composting toilets|The information I read stated that one toilet was good for two people full time liveaboard. The unit is wider/taller etc. than a normal head but I have room to install it according to the dimensions on the site. This was a sun mar unit, the air head unit appears to be substantially smaller and therefore handles less capacity. seer -- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "jim dorey" wrote: > On Sat, 20 Nov 2004 23:46:33 +0000, wrote: > > > seer > > Check out just how large a unit you need to support 2 full time > > liveabord people. > > There adds are for weekend use only. > > When I considered this option I found that the size unit required was > > prohibitive. > > try vacuum dessication. you know how much room coffee takes up when it's > dried, in comparison to wet. empty a bag of powder into city septic when > you get a chance, save tons of space. > > -- > Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/ | 6245|6245|2004-11-20 21:51:35|seeratlas|opening PortLights|One thing I've had some trouble working out is opening portlights. For any size these things are extraordinarily expensive something over 500.00 US a piece and I need a bunch of em LOL. In looking around for solutions I came upon the Cherubini boats and their insanely simple slanted glass portlights. This is the only portlight I've ever seen that can be left open during a good rain. Now, since the Cherubinis are extremely high dollar boats (1.4 million for the 48) I'll have to assume these things work, i.e. they do a quality job of letting in light and air, yet seal up completely, and the Cherubini family builds the portlights themselves. There is a picture of them on their website. Has anyone ever seen or used anything similar? I think I may try to incorporate these into my design. seer| 6246|6245|2004-11-21 05:06:50|edward_stoneuk|Re: opening PortLights|Seer, The Cheribini is a very beautiful boat. Those type of opening ports are featured on page 175 in Fred Bingham's book "Boat Joinery and Cabinetmaking Simplified" published by International Marine. He calls them Gougeon and Root portlights as he borrowed the idea from the Gougeon Brother's "Book on Boat Construction" and they remind him of ports invented by a yachtsman called Root in the 1930s. Bingham says that " ....neither would be satisfactory for serious offshore cruising." Some would argue that the Cheribini 48 with its offset companionway would, because of its increased risk of downflooding if it went over onto its starboard size, not be suitable for offshore work. I recommend Fred's book. Regards, Ted| 6247|6245|2004-11-21 11:00:33|seeratlas|Re: opening PortLights|Ted, Isn 't Fred Bruce's father? Well, here we go with contrasting 'expert' opinions again. Let me Quote Ferenc Mate' from his book, "The World's BEST Sailboats"..circa 2001- "The portlights are designed to serve in the same manner. Look closely at the illustration and after you stop laughing, try to comprehend that these are the best portlights in existence, the only ones that can be left open in the rain. The casting is one piece, meaning that the sleeve is an integral part of the inner piece, in turn meaning that any water that falls within it will be stopped by the returns and drain directly out. The piece of edge-ground tempered glass sits in the trough loose. When shut, it is held against the rubber gasket firmly by the wooden wedges. In the rain it can be leaned back against the returns, stopping the rain from slating in but allowing the air to circulate freely above it." Ok, now that we have two entirely opposite opinions from respected yachtsmen, I guess I have to fall back on my own analysis of the design which goes something like this. Std. opening Portlights are secured at three points for a round, and usually four if oblong or rectangular. The glass is mounted in and supported by a metal frame which is dogged down at those points. Almost invariably these cannot be left open in any kind of drizzle, and unless constantly fiddled with they not only collect water due to the design, but then leak when closed, sometimes steady drips directly to the cabin sole, or more often down behind the wooden trim on the doghouse, leading to rot, smell, and mold. The Cherubini port is one piece, so ANY water getting in the bottom of it, is going to drain back outside as there is no seam to leak. The glass is free standing in the 'well' loose when open, and press fitted by two large wooden wedges on each end pushing the glass flush up against the inside seal. Is this weaker? probably, as though three sides of the glass are fully supported (the two sides and bottom -by the trough-) the top is not. Does this make it more dangerous? hmmmm.' My guess is that any wave smashing into either portlight with sufficient force and at an appropriate angle could stave in either port. Seems to me a big powerful wave is going to hit direct or not. If it hits direct, I think it would break both, but perhaps give a slight advantage to the std. port. HOWEVER... Can that advantage be equalized on the Cherubini? I think so as there is nothing to prevent one from engineering a set of toggles along the top with a suitably sized horizontal bar that can be added in foul seas to totally secure the top edge of the Cherubini glass. THis could be as simple as welding two threaded studs onto the casting just above the glass., Easier still ) and much quicker, would be to simply raise the wedges and slide in a supporting 'backing' piece of lexan, plexi, plywood, or even sheet steel..that should solve any strength questions. Now look at the advantages of the Cherubini port. Aside from the obvious one of being able to be left open in the rain (HUGE in the tropics), consider 1. the ease of replacing or substituting different glass types i.e. reflective mirrored, dark tinted, or clear etc.- or different materials i.e. lexan, plexi, what have you. Replacement is trivial. and given uniform dimensions, would be a snap to carry spares. 2. How about subbing in a steel plate instead of the glass? Not likely to get much stronger than that. again, trivial. 3. How about the ease of adding/removing velcro'd bug screens? Lastly how about the ability to fab these up in welded stainless in the shop, then weld the 'frame' directly to the dog house? as opposed to shelling out $500.00 US or MORE each then going thru the caulking and sealing, bolting routine? Maybe I'm missing something here, but with all due respect to Mr. Bingham, the "seer analysis" suggests that these things bear further consideration and investigation. :) I can think of a lot of other things I would consider MORE unsafe on a blue water boat than this port design :) Lastly, Ferenc concludes : "But let's talk about the boats. First there is a Cherubini 44 ketch whose design is perfect, then there is a Cherubini 48 schooner whose design is perfect, and the construction of both boats is perfect too, so the only question still remaining is how to get my hands on one and run away to sea." As for being totally 'perfect boats', while I wouldn't go that far (after all they are fibreglass hehehehe) they are impressive yachts and an awful lot of thought and effort seems to have gone into their design and execution. My own boat will have an offset hatchway necessitated by main mast placement. I've heard for years criticisms of offset hatchways for the reason you state, however, it would take a hell of a knock down for the water to reach the hatch in my proposed design, and I for one am unlikely to leave the hatch standing open in conditions where a such a knockdown is even remotely possible, much less distinctly foreseable. :) In the conditions that would make such a knockdown possible you will find me INSIDE the PH with the hatch firmly dogged, tiny storm trysail set between the masts, running before the storm, autopilot at the helm, and a hot cup of joe fresh from the microwave hehehehe. seer --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "edward_stoneuk" wrote: > > Seer, > > The Cheribini is a very beautiful boat. Those type of opening ports > are featured on page 175 in Fred Bingham's book "Boat Joinery and > Cabinetmaking Simplified" published by International Marine. He > calls them Gougeon and Root portlights as he borrowed the idea from > the Gougeon Brother's "Book on Boat Construction" and they remind > him of ports invented by a yachtsman called Root in the 1930s. > Bingham says that " ....neither would be satisfactory for serious > offshore cruising." Some would argue that the Cheribini 48 with its > offset companionway would, because of its increased risk of > downflooding if it went over onto its starboard size, not be > suitable for offshore work. I recommend Fred's book. > > Regards, > Ted | 6248|6220|2004-11-21 11:12:53|jericoera|Re: Composting toilets|On the subject of composting toilets i will give you something to think about "outside the box". I have a large Great Dane and a Mastiff dog. Though we have 5 acres, they still manage to do their business in a fair number of spots. I never pick it up or move the droppings and I will tell you why. When in long grass where it is wet or during the rainy season when its not too cold, the slugs gobble it all up. It is not uncommon to see 15 slugs covering a pile of dog "poop". I would suggest you consider setting up your composting toilet with slugs or try worms and set up the toilet like a small worm farm worms can compost a lot of garbage and people with worm composters rave about them. They seem to be able to reduce the smell of waste as well. The only limiting fator would be if the organism worm or slug could handle concentrated urine. If not, I would make an effort to have a seperate small thing to urinate into that could be flushed or dumped. You could then save the composter for the nasty business. If you are a liveaboard, you could sell your worms to fishermen-they multiply like crazy and plus you would be creating some tax write offs for your worm farming operation or whatever. Use your imagination! Carl shakeena@... --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "seeratlas" wrote: > > The information I read stated that one toilet was good for two people > full time liveaboard. The unit is wider/taller etc. than a normal > head but I have room to install it according to the dimensions on the > site. This was a sun mar unit, the air head unit appears to be > substantially smaller and therefore handles less capacity. > seer > > > > -- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "jim dorey" wrote: > > On Sat, 20 Nov 2004 23:46:33 +0000, wrote: > > > > > seer > > > Check out just how large a unit you need to support 2 full time > > > liveabord people. > > > There adds are for weekend use only. > > > When I considered this option I found that the size unit required was > > > prohibitive. > > > > try vacuum dessication. you know how much room coffee takes up when > it's > > dried, in comparison to wet. empty a bag of powder into city septic > when > > you get a chance, save tons of space. > > > > -- > > Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/| 6249|6249|2004-11-21 13:28:21|SHANE ROTHWELL|Re: Good deals on boats|There has been mention of good deals available on boats in west coast usa. Try Honoruru. Middle of nowhere & just one 2-3 week offshore can piss off a woman like I don't understand. They arrive, she storms off, 3 weeks later he's not getting laid like he figured he would, boat is sold to first dollar (in a limited market). If you are looking for an expert on women I'm afraid you have to look elsewhere as I am most definitely not the guy --- origamiboats@yahoogroups.com wrote: > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > --------------------~--> > Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion > Toolbar. > Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! > http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/YmoolB/TM > --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> > > > There are 11 messages in this issue. > > Topics in this digest: > > 1. Re: Wow, much to learn , Carl > From: "jericoera" > 2. Reply to sailor > From: "jericoera" > 3. Re: Reply to sailor > From: fmichael graham > > 4. Re: Reply to initiaboats > From: "jericoera" > 5. Re: Re: Reply to initiaboats > From: fmichael graham > > 6. Re: Re: Reply to initiaboats > From: Michael Casling > 7. Re: Reply to initiaboats > From: "seeratlas" > 8. Re: Re: Reply to initiaboats > From: Michael Casling > 9. Re: Reply to initiaboats > From: "seeratlas" > 10. Re: Re: Reply to initiaboats > From: Michael Casling > 11. Composting toilets > From: "seeratlas" > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > ________________________________________________________________________ > > Message: 1 > Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 06:05:57 -0000 > From: "jericoera" > Subject: Re: Wow, much to learn , Carl > > > Thanks everybody, sounds like some sound logic in > your words of > experience. As it turns out, my training will be on > a C&C 25. > > I am reading what ever I can get my ands on and will > once up to > speed hopefully in the new year start crewing in the > weekend races > with some somewhat patient skippers and literally > learn the ropes. > > My course will help with that somewhat I hope. > > On the subject of Swain boats, I am near certain I > saw one in the > Comox harbour today maybe two. It looked like a 36 > foot beige > pilothouse and I saw a green older metal boat that > sat in the water > the same around 31 feet but could not be sure if it > was a Swain. > Both were in the "free parking" so I assume at least > that as close > to the shore as they were that they were bilge > keelers. > > I never knew how to ride a horse two years ago and I > bought one and > won the first race I entered. I think you just have > to get out there > and do it (and safely as possible) > > Thanks, Carl > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > ________________________________________________________________________ > > Message: 2 > Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 18:33:51 -0000 > From: "jericoera" > Subject: Reply to sailor > > > Sailor, I acknowledge that this is not a real estate > board and do > not want to pump my property on it but as the > proceeds are intended > for a professionally made Swain,I will indulge and > reply to you and > hopefully not upst the moderator or others. > Forgiveness requested! > > The Oceanfront I have is 6.33 acres right smack on > the Bras dors > Lakes in Nova Scotia which is in fact the world's > largest in land > sea and rated as the third best cruising grounds > world wide by > Cruising World Magazine which has posted numerous > articles on the > area. > > Its great because besides excellent wind and > protected waters, I > have deep water moorage available in front of the > property so one > could easily summer in the Bras Dor and then sail > south to the > Caribean or other parts. All services are to the lot > line and > property taxes are only a whopping $212 per year.I > have not logged > it, but the view would be magnificant and > unobstructed with some > logging which would be necessary for a building > site. A variety of > hard and softwoods on the property plus a neat pond > that has water > fowl in it periodically. > > The property continues to appreciate and will go up > more > substantially as the area becomes more developed > with permanent > residents. 15 minutes from St. Peters which has just > updated their > yacht club extensively. An excellent East coast > property. > > Oh yeah, only $50 000 CDN plus HST (Nova Scotia > harmonized Sales Tax) > > I promise, no more plugs on the property-- Just want > to raise some > Swain bucks. > > Carl McIntosh > home email for more info shakeena@... > ph 604 485-0339 > > > > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Sailor" > wrote: > > What is the area? > > > > "jericoera" penned: > > > Also for anyone who cares, I have cheap ocean > front property I > am > > > selling to raise capital for the boat. > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > ________________________________________________________________________ > > Message: 3 > Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 17:06:32 -0500 (EST) > From: fmichael graham > Subject: Re: Reply to sailor > > Carl, et al: > Now I wish I hadn't bought my property in Prince > George, B.C.! For those interested, I spent most of > a year out that way, at the Coast Guard College in > Sydney(enough y's?) and, if ever chased out of B.C., > would be heading for Cape Breton, specifically Bras > Dor lakes. Beautiful doesn't begin to describe the > area & the local residents are second to none. It > must be hard for you to part with your land, Carl. > Good luck on the sale, as you must be giving up one > dream to pursue another. Is St. Peters home to the > North Sydney Yacht Club? I don't remember the name > (St. Peters) but any waterfront on the lakes is > worth having, just ask Alexander Graham Bell. > Regards, > Mike Graham > > > === message truncated === ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca| 6250|6220|2004-11-21 15:17:01|seeratlas|Re: Composting toilets|:) In doing some research, i came across someone who suggested exactly that same thing, i.e. introduction of some red worms into the 'mix' :) LOL. I gather it works :) seer --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "jericoera" wrote: > > On the subject of composting toilets i will give you something to > think about "outside the box". I have a large Great Dane and a > Mastiff dog. Though we have 5 acres, they still manage to do their > business in a fair number of spots. I never pick it up or move the > droppings and I will tell you why. When in long grass where it is > wet or during the rainy season when its not too cold, the slugs > gobble it all up. It is not uncommon to see 15 slugs covering a pile > of dog "poop". I would suggest you consider setting up your > composting toilet with slugs or try worms and set up the toilet like > a small worm farm worms can compost a lot of garbage and people with > worm composters rave about them. They seem to be able to reduce the > smell of waste as well. > > The only limiting fator would be if the organism worm or slug could > handle concentrated urine. If not, I would make an effort to have a > seperate small thing to urinate into that could be flushed or dumped. > > You could then save the composter for the nasty business. If you are > a liveaboard, you could sell your worms to fishermen-they multiply > like crazy and plus you would be creating some tax write offs for > your worm farming operation or whatever. > > Use your imagination! > > Carl > shakeena@s... > > > > > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "seeratlas" > wrote: > > > > The information I read stated that one toilet was good for two > people > > full time liveaboard. The unit is wider/taller etc. than a normal > > head but I have room to install it according to the dimensions on > the > > site. This was a sun mar unit, the air head unit appears to be > > substantially smaller and therefore handles less capacity. > > seer > > > > > > > > -- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "jim dorey" wrote: > > > On Sat, 20 Nov 2004 23:46:33 +0000, wrote: > > > > > > > seer > > > > Check out just how large a unit you need to support 2 full > time > > > > liveabord people. > > > > There adds are for weekend use only. > > > > When I considered this option I found that the size unit > required was > > > > prohibitive. > > > > > > try vacuum dessication. you know how much room coffee takes up > when > > it's > > > dried, in comparison to wet. empty a bag of powder into city > septic > > when > > > you get a chance, save tons of space. > > > > > > -- > > > Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: > http://www.opera.com/m2/ | 6251|6251|2004-11-21 16:00:48|RICHARD KOKEMOOR|tractor-trailer rig|"I bought a tractor-trailer rig off Ebay for less than $5K that would easily haul your boat. You could also store her and work on her anywhere on the trailer." I have been giving this some consideration for months now, not only for transport but as the original building platform, so I wouldn't have to pour a concrete pad for the whole boat, just some stable pads for the wheels and landing gear or jacks to level the trailer. Questions: 1) Did you buy a road tractor and semitrailer as I presume? I am debating a full 45' flatbed versus a 36' to 40' gooseneck that could be pulled by a 1 ton dually pickup, or a 36' to 40' flatbed equipment hauler with pintle hitch that would be pulled by a medium truck (one dual-equipped axle, like the short flatbeds used by construction or landscaping firms). A road tractor has no other use than pulling a semitrailer (and old ones are hard to get rid of, which is why they are so cheap), whereas a one ton truck or a short flatbed medium truck is more generally useful and saleable, though perhaps more expensive initially. A gooseneck or pintle or ball hitch trailer has electric or surge brakes, so does not require a tow vehicle with air brakes. 2) If you got a flatbed semitrailer, did you get a conventional flatbed (high deck), drop deck (lower deck), double drop deck (even lower deck, but possible interference with skeg or a long keel), or a lowboy (with open space in the center, which could potentially allow the very lowest position of the boat on the trailer)? Do you wish you had gotten a different type of trailer? 3) As to the insurance and permitting issues, I have read similar statements about being free to haul (only) your own stuff without the red tape, expense and hassles of a commercial hauler. (Just for instance, they *have to* stop at every weigh station that is open and are subject to rather intense scrutiny and inspection and possibly being forbidden to proceed further with the equipment they are running, having to arrange for another tractor to pick up their trailer, or if the trailer has a problem, unloading onto a different trailer. Just having a heavy tow truck come out costs a thousand dollars, I understand.) I always wonder, do the people writing this speak from something they've been told, or from personal experience? Do they live in Canada or the USA? I live in Wisconsin and have a commercial driver's license, training in semi-rigs, and a little commercial trucking experience. I have a hard time imagining that here in the land of the free, things are as siimple as you suggest, and an even harder time imagining that in Canada the rules and regs are less rather than more restrictive. Have you actually transported an oversize sailboat (>102" wide) privately, with no hassles besides carrying "oversize load" placards? Was an escort vehicle required? They sometimes are here, for loads that are more than a little oversize. The regs are complicated, confusing and constantly changing, so there is the risk that transport could be more of a hassle in a few years than it is now. Often oversize loads may not be transported except in daylight. I'm not trying to be malicious or suspicious, only realistic before I make a large investment in a rig. Another thought I had was to buy a trailer (of whatever type), build the boat on the trailer (which realistically would take years) and only then buy a tow vehicle or hire an owner operator to use his tractor to haul the boat to Pepin on the Mississippi River or to Superior on (you guessed it) Lake Superior. Still another thought is to build the boat on a long enough but les heavily constructed trailer that does not require a road tractor to pull it (e g a single deck car hauler), and make the ballast in fitted lead pigs to be brought on another trip, along with the spars (which if of solid wood, like I have standing on my property, would be of considerable weight). Then the weight of the boat would be down below 12,000 pounds, possibly below 10,000 pounds, and would not require as heavy a tow vehicle. On the other hand, the weight of the boat would not be as low without the ballast, and stability on the road as well as on the water is a consideration. Thanks for your time in reading this. I appreciate your sharing your thoughts and experience. Rich Kokemoor Eau Claire WI --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Meet the all-new My Yahoo! � Try it today! [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]| 6252|6245|2004-11-21 17:09:03|yvesmariedetanton|Re: opening PortLights|Attributed to several designers including Herreshoff; Wiley etc. In the 80's I designed a 48' schooner with the same kind of portlights. In addition toggles were added and the whole thing casted in Taiwan. I had a little run with it. They work fine. The schooner " Rachel Slocum" hase been plying the Pacific for the past 15 years. --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "seeratlas" wrote: > > Ted, > > Isn 't Fred Bruce's father? > > Well, here we go with contrasting 'expert' opinions again. Let me > Quote Ferenc Mate' from his book, "The World's BEST Sailboats"..circa > 2001- > > "The portlights are designed to serve in the same manner. Look > closely at the illustration and after you stop laughing, try to > comprehend that these are the best portlights in existence, the only > ones that can be left open in the rain. The casting is one piece, > meaning that the sleeve is an integral part of the inner piece, in > turn meaning that any water that falls within it will be stopped by > the returns and drain directly out. The piece of edge-ground tempered > glass sits in the trough loose. When shut, it is held against the > rubber gasket firmly by the wooden wedges. In the rain it can be > leaned back against the returns, stopping the rain from slating in but > allowing the air to circulate freely above it." > > Ok, now that we have two entirely opposite opinions from respected > yachtsmen, I guess I have to fall back on my own analysis of the > design which goes something like this. > > Std. opening Portlights are secured at three points for a round, and > usually four if oblong or rectangular. The glass is mounted in and > supported by a metal frame which is dogged down at those points. > Almost invariably these cannot be left open in any kind of drizzle, > and unless constantly fiddled with they not only collect water due to > the design, but then leak when closed, sometimes steady drips > directly to the cabin sole, or more often down behind the wooden trim > on the doghouse, leading to rot, smell, and mold. > > The Cherubini port is one piece, so ANY water getting in the bottom of > it, is going to drain back outside as there is no seam to leak. The > glass is free standing in the 'well' loose when open, and press fitted > by two large wooden wedges on each end pushing the glass flush up > against the inside seal. > Is this weaker? probably, as though three sides of the glass are fully > supported (the two sides and bottom -by the trough-) the top is not. > Does this make it more dangerous? hmmmm.' > > My guess is that any wave smashing into either portlight with > sufficient force and at an appropriate angle could stave in either > port. Seems to me a big powerful wave is going to hit direct or not. > If it hits direct, I think it would break both, but perhaps give a > slight advantage to the std. port. HOWEVER... > > Can that advantage be equalized on the Cherubini? I think so as there > is nothing to prevent one from engineering a set of toggles along the > top with a suitably sized horizontal bar that can be added in foul > seas to totally secure the top edge of the Cherubini glass. THis could > be as simple as welding two threaded studs onto the casting just above > the glass., Easier still ) and much quicker, would be to simply raise > the wedges and slide in a supporting 'backing' piece of lexan, plexi, > plywood, or even sheet steel..that should solve any strength questions. > > Now look at the advantages of the Cherubini port. Aside from the > obvious one of being able to be left open in the rain (HUGE in the > tropics), consider 1. the ease of replacing or substituting different > glass types i.e. reflective mirrored, dark tinted, or clear etc.- or > different materials i.e. lexan, plexi, what have you. Replacement is > trivial. and given uniform dimensions, would be a snap to carry > spares. 2. How about subbing in a steel plate instead of the glass? > Not likely to get much stronger than that. again, trivial. 3. How > about the ease of adding/removing velcro'd bug screens? > > Lastly how about the ability to fab these up in welded stainless in > the shop, then weld the 'frame' directly to the dog house? as opposed > to shelling out $500.00 US or MORE each then going thru the caulking > and sealing, bolting routine? > > Maybe I'm missing something here, but with all due respect to Mr. > Bingham, the "seer analysis" suggests that these things bear further > consideration and investigation. :) I can think of a lot of other > things I would consider MORE unsafe on a blue water boat than this > port design :) > > Lastly, Ferenc concludes : > > "But let's talk about the boats. First there is a Cherubini 44 ketch > whose design is perfect, then there is a Cherubini 48 schooner whose > design is perfect, and the construction of both boats is perfect too, > so the only question still remaining is how to get my hands on one and > run away to sea." > > As for being totally 'perfect boats', while I wouldn't go that far > (after all they are fibreglass hehehehe) they are impressive yachts > and an awful lot of thought and effort seems to have gone into their > design and execution. My own boat will have an offset hatchway > necessitated by main mast placement. I've heard for years criticisms > of offset hatchways for the reason you state, however, it would take > a hell of a knock down for the water to reach the hatch in my proposed > design, and I for one am unlikely to leave the hatch standing open in > conditions where a such a knockdown is even remotely possible, much > less distinctly foreseable. :) In the conditions that would make such > a knockdown possible you will find me INSIDE the PH with the hatch > firmly dogged, tiny storm trysail set between the masts, running > before the storm, autopilot at the helm, and a hot cup of joe fresh > from the microwave hehehehe. > > > seer > > > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "edward_stoneuk" > wrote: > > > > Seer, > > > > The Cheribini is a very beautiful boat. Those type of opening ports > > are featured on page 175 in Fred Bingham's book "Boat Joinery and > > Cabinetmaking Simplified" published by International Marine. He > > calls them Gougeon and Root portlights as he borrowed the idea from > > the Gougeon Brother's "Book on Boat Construction" and they remind > > him of ports invented by a yachtsman called Root in the 1930s. > > Bingham says that " ....neither would be satisfactory for serious > > offshore cruising." Some would argue that the Cheribini 48 with its > > offset companionway would, because of its increased risk of > > downflooding if it went over onto its starboard size, not be > > suitable for offshore work. I recommend Fred's book. > > > > Regards, > > Ted | 6253|6251|2004-11-21 18:12:49|put_to_sea|Re: tractor-trailer rig|> Still another thought is to build the boat on a long enough but >les heavily constructed trailer that does not require a road >tractor to pull it (e g a single deck car hauler), and make the >ballast in fitted lead pigs to be brought on another trip, along >with the spars (which if of solid wood, like I have standing on my >property, would be of considerable weight). Then the weight of the >boat would be down below 12,000 pounds, possibly below 10,000 >pounds, and would not require as heavy a tow vehicle. On the other >hand, the weight of the boat would not be as low without the >ballast, and stability on the road as well as on the water is a >consideration. I would hesitate to purchase a semi-tractor unless you are going to use it a lot. There is a good reason the old ones are cheap. They are expensive to repair and maintain. Almost any repair at all to the drive train will cost you $1000+. Even an oil change requires 10+ gallons of oil plus expensive filters. Most states will subject your rig to a safety inspection as stringent as a commercial hauler and keeping an old rig up to snuff is a full time job. If you live in the out in the boonies and will be doing your hauling out there you might get away with it but the fines can be pretty big. If I were going to do this I might buy an old trailer and hire a tractor to haul it when the time comes. If the boat is light enough, I would use a pickup and gooseneck trailer. A few years ago I had a Dodge 3/4 ton diesel and gooseneck stock trailer that I used to haul cattle all over North Idaho up and down the mountains grossing 20,000 to 22,000 pounds with no problem at all. The weigh stations never bothered me either. Amos| 6254|6251|2004-11-21 18:35:44|Courtney Thomas|Re: tractor-trailer rig|It depends, at least, on... 1-how far hauling is needed 2-how often hauling is needed 3-do you need to haul the boat ea. year b/c of weather, maintenance 4-can you use it for cheaper storage, like at home for nothing 5-getting a rig that doesn't need serious repair in the first place 6-the FUTURE price of hauling, storage, etc. 7-if your state requires inspections for personal diesels 8-the size of your boat 9-your assessment of hauling safety with other means 10-your perception of "selling the tractor" hassle [hint: Ebay] 11-your perception of the value of being a trailer sailor and more.... HTH, Courtney put_to_sea wrote: > >> Still another thought is to build the boat on a long enough but >>les heavily constructed trailer that does not require a road >>tractor to pull it (e g a single deck car hauler), and make the >>ballast in fitted lead pigs to be brought on another trip, along >>with the spars (which if of solid wood, like I have standing on my >>property, would be of considerable weight). Then the weight of the >>boat would be down below 12,000 pounds, possibly below 10,000 >>pounds, and would not require as heavy a tow vehicle. On the other >>hand, the weight of the boat would not be as low without the >>ballast, and stability on the road as well as on the water is a >>consideration. >> > > > I would hesitate to purchase a semi-tractor unless you are going to > use it a lot. There is a good reason the old ones are cheap. They > are expensive to repair and maintain. Almost any repair at all to > the drive train will cost you $1000+. Even an oil change requires > 10+ gallons of oil plus expensive filters. Most states will subject > your rig to a safety inspection as stringent as a commercial hauler > and keeping an old rig up to snuff is a full time job. If you live > in the out in the boonies and will be doing your hauling out there > you might get away with it but the fines can be pretty big. > > If I were going to do this I might buy an old trailer and hire a > tractor to haul it when the time comes. If the boat is light > enough, I would use a pickup and gooseneck trailer. A few years ago > I had a Dodge 3/4 ton diesel and gooseneck stock trailer that I used > to haul cattle all over North Idaho up and down the mountains > grossing 20,000 to 22,000 pounds with no problem at all. The weigh > stations never bothered me either. > > Amos > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > -- s/v Mutiny Rhodes Bounty II lying Oriental, NC WDB5619| 6255|6220|2004-11-21 20:03:52|Gary H. Lucas|Re: Composting toilets|I spent quite a lot of time at a boat show looking at the Air Head and talking to the guy who designed it. It's cleverly done. the housing is in two parts done in rotational molded polyethylene. It has three main features. First is a very small low power ventilation fan that pulls in a small amount of air around the underside of the seat and exhausts it out side the boat. The fan is essentially just one of those solar powered vents with a hose on it. Second is that it has a stainless tray under the seat at the front designed to catch all the urine and direct it into a one gallon jug. He claims that putting a little sugar in the jug will keep it from developing a smell. Sounds about right, we add sugar to the anoxic tank to feed the bugs on the waste treatment systems at work. The purpose of redirecting the urine is that urine stops the composting action, unless you have a very large volume. I believe he has a patent on this idea. Third is that there is a stainless rod passing through the side of the collection tank bent in a zig zag inside to turn over the compost. You give it a couple of turns when you use the toilet, and maybe a couple of times more each day. My thoughts are that this would be really simple to do in a home built boat. Just build a shelf to hold the toilet seat on top and a stainless catch pan to catch the urine under the front edge. You need enough space under the shelf for a common 5 gallon poly bucket and a one gallon jug. Drill a 1/4" hole clear through the bucket and bend up the zigzag rod in such a way you can poke it through one side at an angle and then back through the other side. Use shaft collars to keep it centered and weld an ell onto one shaft collar to make a crank handle. Keep a couple of spare buckets if needed. You can seal them up tight with the lids that are sold everywhere. My Hi Tech option, self agitation. Buy a 1/4" cam clutch that has the built in needle bearings ( about 15 dollars) and make a stainless hub with a pendulum weight on the end. As the boat rocks the pendulum swings back and forth and the cam clutch keeps the round rotating round and round in the same direction. If things get to rough just tie it off. Gary H. Lucas ----- Original Message ----- From: "seeratlas" To: Sent: Saturday, November 20, 2004 9:33 PM Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Composting toilets > > > The information I read stated that one toilet was good for two people > full time liveaboard. The unit is wider/taller etc. than a normal > head but I have room to install it according to the dimensions on the > site. This was a sun mar unit, the air head unit appears to be > substantially smaller and therefore handles less capacity. > seer > > > > -- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "jim dorey" wrote: > > On Sat, 20 Nov 2004 23:46:33 +0000, wrote: > > > > > seer > > > Check out just how large a unit you need to support 2 full time > > > liveabord people. > > > There adds are for weekend use only. > > > When I considered this option I found that the size unit required was > > > prohibitive. > > > > try vacuum dessication. you know how much room coffee takes up when > it's > > dried, in comparison to wet. empty a bag of powder into city septic > when > > you get a chance, save tons of space. > > > > -- > > Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/ > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > | 6256|6249|2004-11-21 20:15:32|jericoera|Re: Good deals on boats|I think by their nature women are more social creatures than men. There is no gossip in the middle of the ocean so they want to get to where ever they are going in a hurry. For a man the process of getting some place can be more enjoyable than the destination(unless you are flying Lufthansa-I wont make that mistake twice) Carl --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, SHANE ROTHWELL wrote: > There has been mention of good deals available on > boats in west coast usa. Try Honoruru. Middle of > nowhere & just one 2-3 week offshore can piss off a > woman like I don't understand. They arrive, she storms > off, 3 weeks later he's not getting laid like he > figured he would, boat is sold to first dollar (in a > limited market). > > If you are looking for an expert on women I'm afraid > you have to look elsewhere as I am most definitely not > the guy > > > > > > > --- origamiboats@yahoogroups.com wrote: > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > --------------------~--> > > Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion > > Toolbar. > > Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! > > > http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/YmoolB/TM > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------- -~-> > > > > > > There are 11 messages in this issue. > > > > Topics in this digest: > > > > 1. Re: Wow, much to learn , Carl > > From: "jericoera" > > 2. Reply to sailor > > From: "jericoera" > > 3. Re: Reply to sailor > > From: fmichael graham > > > > 4. Re: Reply to initiaboats > > From: "jericoera" > > 5. Re: Re: Reply to initiaboats > > From: fmichael graham > > > > 6. Re: Re: Reply to initiaboats > > From: Michael Casling > > 7. Re: Reply to initiaboats > > From: "seeratlas" > > 8. Re: Re: Reply to initiaboats > > From: Michael Casling > > 9. Re: Reply to initiaboats > > From: "seeratlas" > > 10. Re: Re: Reply to initiaboats > > From: Michael Casling > > 11. Composting toilets > > From: "seeratlas" > > > > > > > _____________________________________________________________________ ___ > > > _____________________________________________________________________ ___ > > > > Message: 1 > > Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 06:05:57 -0000 > > From: "jericoera" > > Subject: Re: Wow, much to learn , Carl > > > > > > Thanks everybody, sounds like some sound logic in > > your words of > > experience. As it turns out, my training will be on > > a C&C 25. > > > > I am reading what ever I can get my ands on and will > > once up to > > speed hopefully in the new year start crewing in the > > weekend races > > with some somewhat patient skippers and literally > > learn the ropes. > > > > My course will help with that somewhat I hope. > > > > On the subject of Swain boats, I am near certain I > > saw one in the > > Comox harbour today maybe two. It looked like a 36 > > foot beige > > pilothouse and I saw a green older metal boat that > > sat in the water > > the same around 31 feet but could not be sure if it > > was a Swain. > > Both were in the "free parking" so I assume at least > > that as close > > to the shore as they were that they were bilge > > keelers. > > > > I never knew how to ride a horse two years ago and I > > bought one and > > won the first race I entered. I think you just have > > to get out there > > and do it (and safely as possible) > > > > Thanks, Carl > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _____________________________________________________________________ ___ > > > _____________________________________________________________________ ___ > > > > Message: 2 > > Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 18:33:51 -0000 > > From: "jericoera" > > Subject: Reply to sailor > > > > > > Sailor, I acknowledge that this is not a real estate > > board and do > > not want to pump my property on it but as the > > proceeds are intended > > for a professionally made Swain,I will indulge and > > reply to you and > > hopefully not upst the moderator or others. > > Forgiveness requested! > > > > The Oceanfront I have is 6.33 acres right smack on > > the Bras dors > > Lakes in Nova Scotia which is in fact the world's > > largest in land > > sea and rated as the third best cruising grounds > > world wide by > > Cruising World Magazine which has posted numerous > > articles on the > > area. > > > > Its great because besides excellent wind and > > protected waters, I > > have deep water moorage available in front of the > > property so one > > could easily summer in the Bras Dor and then sail > > south to the > > Caribean or other parts. All services are to the lot > > line and > > property taxes are only a whopping $212 per year.I > > have not logged > > it, but the view would be magnificant and > > unobstructed with some > > logging which would be necessary for a building > > site. A variety of > > hard and softwoods on the property plus a neat pond > > that has water > > fowl in it periodically. > > > > The property continues to appreciate and will go up > > more > > substantially as the area becomes more developed > > with permanent > > residents. 15 minutes from St. Peters which has just > > updated their > > yacht club extensively. An excellent East coast > > property. > > > > Oh yeah, only $50 000 CDN plus HST (Nova Scotia > > harmonized Sales Tax) > > > > I promise, no more plugs on the property-- Just want > > to raise some > > Swain bucks. > > > > Carl McIntosh > > home email for more info shakeena@s... > > ph 604 485-0339 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Sailor" > > wrote: > > > What is the area? > > > > > > "jericoera" penned: > > > > Also for anyone who cares, I have cheap ocean > > front property I > > am > > > > selling to raise capital for the boat. > > > > > > > > > > > > > _____________________________________________________________________ ___ > > > _____________________________________________________________________ ___ > > > > Message: 3 > > Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 17:06:32 -0500 (EST) > > From: fmichael graham > > Subject: Re: Reply to sailor > > > > Carl, et al: > > Now I wish I hadn't bought my property in Prince > > George, B.C.! For those interested, I spent most of > > a year out that way, at the Coast Guard College in > > Sydney(enough y's?) and, if ever chased out of B.C., > > would be heading for Cape Breton, specifically Bras > > Dor lakes. Beautiful doesn't begin to describe the > > area & the local residents are second to none. It > > must be hard for you to part with your land, Carl. > > Good luck on the sale, as you must be giving up one > > dream to pursue another. Is St. Peters home to the > > North Sydney Yacht Club? I don't remember the name > > (St. Peters) but any waterfront on the lakes is > > worth having, just ask Alexander Graham Bell. > > Regards, > > Mike Graham > > > > > > > === message truncated === > > _____________________________________________________________________ _ > Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca | 6257|6257|2004-11-21 20:32:31|Puck III|Trailerable boats & special trailor :-)|I posted 2 pics in the " Ben's Stuff" Folder in Photos The boat that trailor was designed for is 33' x 10'5" The Swain 26' is trailerable but I wonder if the same swing would make the 31' trailerable ? Worth to look into ? Somebody just has to make a square around the mastersection and tell us :-) Anyway if one wanted to design & build a motorboat like the Culler 24' in the Origami fashion be it in wood , steel or aluminum I think this trailor system allows to trail a wider boat , you could level her for living on the road or overwintering in your garden:-) Anybody any interest in a trailerable small liveaboard motorcruiser in the Group? Old Ben| 6258|6251|2004-11-21 21:37:05|seeratlas|Re: tractor-trailer rig|I'm with Amos on this one. I have an 89 dodge cummins 1 ton 4x4 that I pulled around 18k gross all over the United States. I have a friend on Whidbey who had a custom trailer built for his heavily modified 35 foot enclosed flybridge Tollycraft. He took an old chevy one ton dually, had a rebuilt detroit and the auto allison put in it and pulls his boat up out of the water and into a HUGE garage for storage as opposed to letting it sit at the dock. That boat alone weighs 22k pounds, and the hill up to his place is pretty darned steep. seer > > If I were going to do this I might buy an old trailer and hire a > tractor to haul it when the time comes. If the boat is light > enough, I would use a pickup and gooseneck trailer. A few years ago > I had a Dodge 3/4 ton diesel and gooseneck stock trailer that I used > to haul cattle all over North Idaho up and down the mountains > grossing 20,000 to 22,000 pounds with no problem at all. The weigh > stations never bothered me either. > > Amos | 6259|6245|2004-11-22 02:36:32|jim_both|Re: opening PortLights|I had much the same thoughts as you seer, when I first saw the Cherubini opening port. I would fabricate it with flat on the top and bottom (either mild or stainless), and split pipe for the sides. I would use plastic wedges (cut from chopping board?), since timber is not dimenionally stable. I would have three interchangeable inserts(all rectangular: temperered glass, possibly sourced from auto spares, also a stainless mesh for ventilation, and thirdly, a storm shutter of hull plating. These could then be welded into the cabin sides. Cheers, Jim| 6260|6220|2004-11-22 04:07:52|jim_both|Re: Composting toilets|Their website is: http://www.airheadtoilet.com/Air_Headx.html Although the website mentions "a urine diversion design", I could not find any mention of the stainless tray you mention. Does this work for both men and women using it in the standard ways, or do you need to re-learn potty training? Jim --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Gary H. Lucas" wrote: > I spent quite a lot of time at a boat show looking at the Air Head and > talking to the guy who designed it. It's cleverly done. the housing is in > two parts done in rotational molded polyethylene. It has three main > features. First is a very small low power ventilation fan that pulls in a > small amount of air around the underside of the seat and exhausts it out > side the boat. The fan is essentially just one of those solar powered vents > with a hose on it. > > Second is that it has a stainless tray under the seat at the front designed > to catch all the urine and direct it into a one gallon jug. He claims that > putting a little sugar in the jug will keep it from developing a smell. > Sounds about right, we add sugar to the anoxic tank to feed the bugs on the > waste treatment systems at work. The purpose of redirecting the urine is > that urine stops the composting action, unless you have a very large volume. > I believe he has a patent on this idea. > > Third is that there is a stainless rod passing through the side of the > collection tank bent in a zig zag inside to turn over the compost. You give > it a couple of turns when you use the toilet, and maybe a couple of times > more each day. > > My thoughts are that this would be really simple to do in a home built boat. > Just build a shelf to hold the toilet seat on top and a stainless catch pan > to catch the urine under the front edge. You need enough space under the > shelf for a common 5 gallon poly bucket and a one gallon jug. Drill a 1/4" > hole clear through the bucket and bend up the zigzag rod in such a way you > can poke it through one side at an angle and then back through the other > side. Use shaft collars to keep it centered and weld an ell onto one shaft > collar to make a crank handle. Keep a couple of spare buckets if needed. > You can seal them up tight with the lids that are sold everywhere. > > My Hi Tech option, self agitation. Buy a 1/4" cam clutch that has the built > in needle bearings ( about 15 dollars) and make a stainless hub with a > pendulum weight on the end. As the boat rocks the pendulum swings back and > forth and the cam clutch keeps the round rotating round and round in the > same direction. If things get to rough just tie it off. > > Gary H. Lucas > > | 6261|6245|2004-11-22 14:54:43|khooper_fboats|Tanton Wishbone Rig|M. Tanton, It is exciting to see you writing here. Just recently I was wishing I could buy plans for an unstayed carbon mast specially drawn for the Swain 40, while I drooled over that lovely schooner you've got on your web site. Do you think such a thing is a possibility? Foam-cored and resin infused, build in the back yard, of course. =^) Regards, --Hoop --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "yvesmariedetanton" wrote: > > Attributed to several designers including Herreshoff; Wiley etc. In > the 80's I designed a 48' schooner with the same kind of portlights. > In addition toggles were added and the whole thing casted in Taiwan. > I had a little run with it. They work fine. The schooner " Rachel > Slocum" hase been plying the Pacific for the past 15 years. | 6262|6185|2004-11-22 14:57:18|Cyrus Safdari|Re: Reply to sailor|I thought the world's largest in-land sea was the Caspian Sea (which I have sailed, btw) --- jericoera wrote: > > Sailor, I acknowledge that this is not a real estate > board and do > not want to pump my property on it but as the > proceeds are intended > for a professionally made Swain,I will indulge and > reply to you and > hopefully not upst the moderator or others. > Forgiveness requested! > > The Oceanfront I have is 6.33 acres right smack on > the Bras dors > Lakes in Nova Scotia which is in fact the world's > largest in land > sea and rated as the third best cruising grounds > world wide by > Cruising World Magazine which has posted numerous > articles on the > area. > > Its great because besides excellent wind and > protected waters, I > have deep water moorage available in front of the > property so one > could easily summer in the Bras Dor and then sail > south to the > Caribean or other parts. All services are to the lot > line and > property taxes are only a whopping $212 per year.I > have not logged > it, but the view would be magnificant and > unobstructed with some > logging which would be necessary for a building > site. A variety of > hard and softwoods on the property plus a neat pond > that has water > fowl in it periodically. > > The property continues to appreciate and will go up > more > substantially as the area becomes more developed > with permanent > residents. 15 minutes from St. Peters which has just > updated their > yacht club extensively. An excellent East coast > property. > > Oh yeah, only $50 000 CDN plus HST (Nova Scotia > harmonized Sales Tax) > > I promise, no more plugs on the property-- Just want > to raise some > Swain bucks. > > Carl McIntosh > home email for more info shakeena@... > ph 604 485-0339 > > > > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Sailor" > wrote: > > What is the area? > > > > "jericoera" penned: > > > Also for anyone who cares, I have cheap ocean > front property I > am > > > selling to raise capital for the boat. > > > > | 6263|6257|2004-11-22 15:26:54|tronfixr|Re: Trailerable boats & special trailor :-)|Me! Have a keen eye on Brent's 26 for some time now- just haven't made the plunge to get the plans. I'm looking for the biggest thing I can pull with my Cummins Ram... and able to get in and out in 4' of water after going under a very low bridge. You'd think Hilo Hawaii would be boat heaven. If anything, the State goes out of it's way to make boating difficult. Mike --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III" wrote: > > I posted 2 pics in the " Ben's Stuff" Folder in Photos > The boat that trailor was designed for is 33' x 10'5" > The Swain 26' is trailerable but I wonder if the same > swing would make the 31' trailerable ? > Worth to look into ? Somebody just has to make > a square around the mastersection and tell us :-) > Anyway if one wanted to design & build a motorboat > like the Culler 24' in the Origami fashion be it in > wood , steel or aluminum I think this trailor system > allows to trail a wider boat , you could level her for > living on the road or overwintering in your garden:-) > Anybody any interest in a trailerable small liveaboard > motorcruiser in the Group? > Old Ben | 6264|6257|2004-11-22 15:38:11|Gary|Re: Trailerable boats & special trailor :-)|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "tronfixr" wrote: . You'd think Hilo Hawaii would be > boat heaven. If anything, the State goes out of it's way to make > boating difficult. How so? Would seem to be a contemplated destination for many in the Pacific North West. Regards.. Gary| 6265|6265|2004-11-22 15:48:37|John Jones|Baffeled|I'm building a 40 footer and I can't figuire out why I require "3-5X8X3/16 plate sheets" for the transom.(????) Whatup widdat? And is it okay to use 3/16 instead of 1/4 on the sides of the twin keels,...,if you look at the drawing, the twin keels actually require's a bit more material than the single keel does, it would be nice to use up some of this extra stuff I've got lying around. There also seems to be more missing from this list but it could just be me. John| 6266|6257|2004-11-22 17:17:51|tronfixr|Re: Trailerable boats & special trailor :-)|Passing through isn't bad as long as you stick to Oahu- special moorings and slips for visitors. Some on the other islands but quality may be in question. For residents- The state runs the harbors. There is one private marina that I know of on Oahu (outside of Honolulu). My understanding is it is a pilot project. On the Big Island (Hawaii)- 10 year waiting list for a slip, almost no docking facilities (my friend hauls his fuel and water by hand), for a dollar a foot/month you can provide your own mooring (or buy one from a previous occupant) at an assigned location where you are forbidden to live aboard with no security (at your own risk. I'm still wondering what you get for your dollar a foot besides GPS coordinates). The reason I am told is because of liveaboards in the past trashing the harbor. There is one hauling facility on the other side of the island. In my conversations with them, they seem to be very decent and understanding of the situation but operate with tied hands due to the state's heavy hand. It seems we lose at least one or two boats a year on each side. Mooring line breaks in heavy weather and into the rocks she goes. More so Kona side. Not so protected there. Mike --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Gary" wrote: > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "tronfixr" > wrote: > . You'd think Hilo Hawaii would be > > boat heaven. If anything, the State goes out of it's way to make > > boating difficult. > > How so? Would seem to be a contemplated destination for many in the > Pacific North West. > > Regards.. Gary | 6267|6220|2004-11-22 20:17:16|Gary H. Lucas|Re: Composting toilets|They recommend men sit down all the time! Gary H. Lucas| 6268|6245|2004-11-22 22:52:05|yvesmariedetanton|Re: Tanton Wishbone Rig|I am not recommending for amateurs to build carbon fiber rigs. Why add to a low tech boat the expense of a high tech and high cost rig? And I consider the junk rig an expensive proposition as well. Hell of a lot of high tech junks around. Now and maybe,contact david. hanson@.... I believe he has a couple of Freedom masts for sale. No warranty. --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "khooper_fboats" wrote: > > > M. Tanton, > > It is exciting to see you writing here. Just recently I was wishing I > could buy plans for an unstayed carbon mast specially drawn for the > Swain 40, while I drooled over that lovely schooner you've got on your > web site. Do you think such a thing is a possibility? > > Foam-cored and resin infused, build in the back yard, of course. =^) > > Regards, > > --Hoop > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "yvesmariedetanton" wrote: > > > > Attributed to several designers including Herreshoff; Wiley etc. In > > the 80's I designed a 48' schooner with the same kind of portlights. > > In addition toggles were added and the whole thing casted in Taiwan. > > I had a little run with it. They work fine. The schooner " Rachel > > Slocum" hase been plying the Pacific for the past 15 years. | 6269|6269|2004-11-22 22:59:24|John Waalkes|Alum masts??|Just noticed on e-bay, Oregon has some alum pipe for sale. Over a dozen pcs 5.5" in dia .270 & .370 wall, 45' +- length, maybe others would also be interested item #3853622482 if I remember right it was seller (oregontrail2000) bid was @ $1800.00+ had not reached reserve price. I would be interested in a couple. John [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]| 6270|6197|2004-11-23 04:43:41|sae140|Re: Stoves on boats|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, SHANE ROTHWELL wrote: > Hi Colin, you mentioned PVC and foam dont go together... > PVC is PVC wether it's electrical insualtion or tubing Hi Shane Not so. PVC is a general name for polymers made from Vinyl Chloride monomer. In it's common-or-garden form PolyVinylChloride is a clear flexible thermo-plastic substance which has a nasty habit of continuing to release small traces of it's monomer after manufacture. This gives rise to a characteristic 'plasticky' smell; produces a bloom on car windscreens which are fitted with PVC seats as well as trim; and will impart a nasty taste if used for water storage or piping. It's also UV-degradable (though not bio- degradable) in this form. To overcome these deficiences, the polymer chains can be tinkered with by chemists (by creating forms of cross-linking to fully 'tie- up' the monomer) to provide "food grade" PVC (usually, but not always a clear material), and ultra-violet resistance = uPVC (which have their colours - often black and white - fixed at the point of manufacture). To make PVC bio-degradable requires the addition of organic additives into the chains themselves so that organisms can 'get their teeth' into the long chains and begin breaking 'em up. To make coloured PVC products from the common-or-garden clear base material, dyes and fillers are added - and it is these that determine subsequent UV resistance. To make white PVC from clear takes very little dye, hence white and semi-translucent are often easily degraded by UV. The darker the colour, the more dye needs to be added to achieve an acceptable product, hence darker colours are *usually* (though not always) more UV resistant. PVC electrical cables have a lot of filler added - that's why they have a more chalky feel to them, than say thin food-grade PVC film. > but just want to confirm that you are talking about 2 part polyeurathane foam used to spray the hull? No - sorry for the confusion - I was thinking of when PVC is brought into direct contact with polystyrene (another polymer) when these materials will interact, and in time (couple of years) the PVC will be reduced to a sticky goo. Polystyrene sheets are often used as insulation on narrow boats and barges, where their shape lends itself to sheet insulation. These vessels often have 240V power from generators or bank-side hook-up, and when 240V is applied to the failed insulation, fire will inevitably result, with a cocktail of toxic smoke being produced. Two-part foam should be ok, as (afaik) it isn't comprised of a polymer which can decompose and interact with Vinyl monomer. PVC has 2 other drawbacks - one is that is becomes quite inflexible at low temperatures, when it can easily crack. Butyl or silicone rubber is preferred for use under such conditions. The other is that it can become permanently rigid when brought into prolonged contact with engine oil. But despite all the above - I agree with you - PVC remains a most useful material. Colin| 6271|6185|2004-11-23 07:12:48|..|Re: Reply to initiaboats|Hi Ben, It looks like someone on this site will have to draw up some guide lines and testing proceedurs for selecting mates. I think you have made a good point Ben, women do not like isolation and boredom,she might have been fine on a larger boat as there must have been a number of other people to talk to and possibly other women. What we forget is that they like to comunicate with other women and talk about other things than boats. What was the first thing she did on going ashore after a long trip? best wishes Geoff Hi carl, mike and the rest of you, Women on boats! I have found my self in the same situation, The english girl I lived with went through a rigorous testing regime before selection, she was cook on the square rigger I worked on, she had taken sailing lessons before I met her and had prevously circumnavigated tasmania on another square rigger. A good start. Turns out she finds sailing boring!!(or maybe just me!) how can you argue with that, she's given it a good go, two pacific trips, a trans tasman and two handed sydney-hobart, plus lots of coastal cruising and living aboard, guess she's a city girl at heart and doesn't like the isolation. thought I'd mention this because athough alot of women blame the scary momments I think the bordom and isolation, plus a feeling of not being in control or being able to get off the boat is a factor. Cheers Ben --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.779 / Virus Database: 526 - Release Date: 19/10/2004 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]| 6272|6272|2004-11-23 16:03:42|run2excess2000|Boat and Emergency Lights|I hope nobody minds if I recommend a website that carries the Ultra Bright II's that are a great light for anyone walking or running at night, camping, hiking, RVing, safety, emergencies or anywhere you need a flashlight. Ultra Brights have the on/off switch with LED bulb that will never burn out, can be seen for over a mile and comes with a lifetime warranty, lithium batteries and a key-ring.They are great for Christmas stocking stuffers or gifts. You can check them out at www.photonmicro.com Brad| 6273|6269|2004-11-23 19:13:42|richytill|Re: Alum masts??|Have 47' aluminum mast for sale set up for double spreaders with shiv box and base welded up: $1500 cdn obo. rt --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "John Waalkes" wrote: > Just noticed on e-bay, Oregon has some alum pipe for sale. Over a dozen pcs 5.5" in dia .270 & .370 wall, 45' +- length, maybe others would also be interested item #3853622482 if I remember right it was seller (oregontrail2000) bid was @ $1800.00+ had not reached reserve price. I would be interested in a couple. John > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 6274|6245|2004-11-23 22:09:42|khooper_fboats|Re: Tanton Wishbone Rig|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "yvesmariedetanton" wrote: > > I am not recommending for amateurs to build carbon fiber rigs. > Why add to a low tech boat the expense of a high tech and high cost > rig? Simplicity, low maintenance, easier single-handing, these are why I think unstayed masts are attractive in a boat designed for elegance through simplicity. I don't think the Swain designs hold low-tech to be a virtue per se, nor is an FRP stick such a high- tech concept anymore perhaps. =^) I don't know if anybody else is interested in this but Rob Denney of harryproa.com says he is developing a process to produce unstayed carbon rigs that will sell for well under $10K AUD (that number would be roughly $7500 USD right now, the Canadian money is worth about the same as the Ozzy money presently). That's more than an aluminum stick + wires + bits but it isn't over the moon. Rob says the rigs will be appropriate for symmetrical craft. I specifically pinned him down on that. =^) > And I consider the junk rig an expensive proposition as well. > Hell of a lot of high tech junks around. Now and maybe,contact david. > hanson@s... I believe he has a couple of Freedom masts for > sale. No warranty. | 6275|6197|2004-11-23 22:15:53|gschnell|Re: Stoves on boats|Sooooooo......can I sum that very technical discourse up with this statement? "If you choose to use PVC tubing and conduit for your water and electrical, respectively, there is no problem with then burying it all under 2-part spray urethane foam insulation". because that is what I intend to do. Gord sae140 wrote: > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, SHANE ROTHWELL > wrote: > > Hi Colin, you mentioned PVC and foam dont go together... > > PVC is PVC wether it's electrical insualtion or tubing > > Hi Shane > > Not so. PVC is a general name for polymers made from Vinyl Chloride > monomer. In it's common-or-garden form PolyVinylChloride is a clear > flexible thermo-plastic substance which has a nasty habit of > continuing to release small traces of it's monomer after > manufacture. This gives rise to a characteristic 'plasticky' smell; > produces a bloom on car windscreens which are fitted with PVC seats > as well as trim; and will impart a nasty taste if used for water > storage or piping. It's also UV-degradable (though not bio- > degradable) in this form. > > To overcome these deficiences, the polymer chains can be tinkered > with by chemists (by creating forms of cross-linking to fully 'tie- > up' the monomer) to provide "food grade" PVC (usually, but not always > a clear material), and ultra-violet resistance = uPVC (which have > their colours - often black and white - fixed at the point of > manufacture). To make PVC bio-degradable requires the addition of > organic additives into the chains themselves so that organisms > can 'get their teeth' into the long chains and begin breaking 'em up. > > To make coloured PVC products from the common-or-garden clear base > material, dyes and fillers are added - and it is these that determine > subsequent UV resistance. To make white PVC from clear takes very > little dye, hence white and semi-translucent are often easily > degraded by UV. The darker the colour, the more dye needs to be added > to achieve an acceptable product, hence darker colours are *usually* > (though not always) more UV resistant. > > PVC electrical cables have a lot of filler added - that's why they > have a more chalky feel to them, than say thin food-grade PVC film. > > > but just want to confirm that you are talking about 2 > part polyeurathane foam used to spray the hull? > > No - sorry for the confusion - I was thinking of when PVC is brought > into direct contact with polystyrene (another polymer) when these > materials will interact, and in time (couple of years) the PVC will > be reduced to a sticky goo. > Polystyrene sheets are often used as insulation on narrow boats and > barges, where their shape lends itself to sheet insulation. These > vessels often have 240V power from generators or bank-side hook-up, > and when 240V is applied to the failed insulation, fire will > inevitably result, with a cocktail of toxic smoke being produced. > > Two-part foam should be ok, as (afaik) it isn't comprised of a > polymer which can decompose and interact with Vinyl monomer. > > PVC has 2 other drawbacks - one is that is becomes quite inflexible > at low temperatures, when it can easily crack. Butyl or silicone > rubber is preferred for use under such conditions. The other is that > it can become permanently rigid when brought into prolonged contact > with engine oil. > > But despite all the above - I agree with you - PVC remains a most > useful material. > > Colin > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT [click here] > > --------------------------------------------------------------- > Yahoo! Groups Links > > * To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/ > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > Service. > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]| 6276|6245|2004-11-24 19:01:53|brentswain38|Re: opening PortLights|Any openings far off the centreline can and sometimes do sink a boat. I've been hit by cold fronts and sqaulls many times without warning, which immediately put the cabisides underwater.I would have sunk or taken a dangerous amount of water aboard several times if I had opening ports in the cabinsides or an offset hatch .Don't push your luck. Brent Swain --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "edward_stoneuk" wrote: > > Seer, > > The Cheribini is a very beautiful boat. Those type of opening ports > are featured on page 175 in Fred Bingham's book "Boat Joinery and > Cabinetmaking Simplified" published by International Marine. He > calls them Gougeon and Root portlights as he borrowed the idea from > the Gougeon Brother's "Book on Boat Construction" and they remind > him of ports invented by a yachtsman called Root in the 1930s. > Bingham says that " ....neither would be satisfactory for serious > offshore cruising." Some would argue that the Cheribini 48 with its > offset companionway would, because of its increased risk of > downflooding if it went over onto its starboard size, not be > suitable for offshore work. I recommend Fred's book. > > Regards, > Ted | 6277|6220|2004-11-24 19:03:50|brentswain38|Re: Composting toilets|At Fanning Island, whenever I pumped the head, the surgeon fish gobbled it up before it could float or hit the bottom.In BC the tiny crabs swarm over it and it's gone in a couple of days. I doubt they would do the same with holding tank chemicals. Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "jericoera" wrote: > > On the subject of composting toilets i will give you something to > think about "outside the box". I have a large Great Dane and a > Mastiff dog. Though we have 5 acres, they still manage to do their > business in a fair number of spots. I never pick it up or move the > droppings and I will tell you why. When in long grass where it is > wet or during the rainy season when its not too cold, the slugs > gobble it all up. It is not uncommon to see 15 slugs covering a pile > of dog "poop". I would suggest you consider setting up your > composting toilet with slugs or try worms and set up the toilet like > a small worm farm worms can compost a lot of garbage and people with > worm composters rave about them. They seem to be able to reduce the > smell of waste as well. > > The only limiting fator would be if the organism worm or slug could > handle concentrated urine. If not, I would make an effort to have a > seperate small thing to urinate into that could be flushed or dumped. > > You could then save the composter for the nasty business. If you are > a liveaboard, you could sell your worms to fishermen-they multiply > like crazy and plus you would be creating some tax write offs for > your worm farming operation or whatever. > > Use your imagination! > > Carl > shakeena@s... > > > > > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "seeratlas" > wrote: > > > > The information I read stated that one toilet was good for two > people > > full time liveaboard. The unit is wider/taller etc. than a normal > > head but I have room to install it according to the dimensions on > the > > site. This was a sun mar unit, the air head unit appears to be > > substantially smaller and therefore handles less capacity. > > seer > > > > > > > > -- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "jim dorey" wrote: > > > On Sat, 20 Nov 2004 23:46:33 +0000, wrote: > > > > > > > seer > > > > Check out just how large a unit you need to support 2 full > time > > > > liveabord people. > > > > There adds are for weekend use only. > > > > When I considered this option I found that the size unit > required was > > > > prohibitive. > > > > > > try vacuum dessication. you know how much room coffee takes up > when > > it's > > > dried, in comparison to wet. empty a bag of powder into city > septic > > when > > > you get a chance, save tons of space. > > > > > > -- > > > Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: > http://www.opera.com/m2/ | 6278|6220|2004-11-24 19:08:43|brentswain38|Re: Composting toilets|I was wondering about using such a cam clutch and flywheel on a generator for free power at sea. I once read of such a rig on an atlantic crossing and the owner had to spend more time with the thing tied off to avoid overcharging his batteries. Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Gary H. Lucas" wrote: > I spent quite a lot of time at a boat show looking at the Air Head and > talking to the guy who designed it. It's cleverly done. the housing is in > two parts done in rotational molded polyethylene. It has three main > features. First is a very small low power ventilation fan that pulls in a > small amount of air around the underside of the seat and exhausts it out > side the boat. The fan is essentially just one of those solar powered vents > with a hose on it. > > Second is that it has a stainless tray under the seat at the front designed > to catch all the urine and direct it into a one gallon jug. He claims that > putting a little sugar in the jug will keep it from developing a smell. > Sounds about right, we add sugar to the anoxic tank to feed the bugs on the > waste treatment systems at work. The purpose of redirecting the urine is > that urine stops the composting action, unless you have a very large volume. > I believe he has a patent on this idea. > > Third is that there is a stainless rod passing through the side of the > collection tank bent in a zig zag inside to turn over the compost. You give > it a couple of turns when you use the toilet, and maybe a couple of times> more each day. > > My thoughts are that this would be really simple to do in a home built boat. > Just build a shelf to hold the toilet seat on top and a stainless catch pan > to catch the urine under the front edge. You need enough space under the > shelf for a common 5 gallon poly bucket and a one gallon jug. Drill a 1/4" > hole clear through the bucket and bend up the zigzag rod in such a way you > can poke it through one side at an angle and then back through the other > side. Use shaft collars to keep it centered and weld an ell onto one shaft > collar to make a crank handle. Keep a couple of spare buckets if needed. > You can seal them up tight with the lids that are sold everywhere. > > My Hi Tech option, self agitation. Buy a 1/4" cam clutch that has the built > in needle bearings ( about 15 dollars) and make a stainless hub with a > pendulum weight on the end. As the boat rocks the pendulum swings back and > forth and the cam clutch keeps the round rotating round and round in the > same direction. If things get to rough just tie it off. > > Gary H. Lucas > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "seeratlas" > To: > Sent: Saturday, November 20, 2004 9:33 PM > Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Composting toilets > > > > > > > > The information I read stated that one toilet was good for two people > > full time liveaboard. The unit is wider/taller etc. than a normal > > head but I have room to install it according to the dimensions on the > > site. This was a sun mar unit, the air head unit appears to be > > substantially smaller and therefore handles less capacity. > > seer > > > > > > > > -- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "jim dorey" wrote: > > > On Sat, 20 Nov 2004 23:46:33 +0000, wrote: > > > > > > > seer > > > > Check out just how large a unit you need to support 2 full time > > > > liveabord people. > > > > There adds are for weekend use only. > > > > When I considered this option I found that the size unit required was > > > > prohibitive. > > > > > > try vacuum dessication. you know how much room coffee takes up when > > it's > > > dried, in comparison to wet. empty a bag of powder into city septic > > when > > > you get a chance, save tons of space. > > > > > > -- > > > Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > | 6279|6225|2004-11-24 19:17:15|brentswain38|Re: 33 foot Simpson metal hull acquired.|Maggie had a trailer in Royston , made to fit one of my 36 footers, road licensed and all for $500. The brakes , etc were frozen and need a bit of work. I don't have her phone number , but she has the bead shoppe at the Fulford ferry terminal on Salspring island. Mosquito Creek in N Van may be available. I knew a guy who built a 40 footer from scratch there. Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Courtney Thomas wrote: > Jim, > > At my age I bought one to sail while I put together all the pieces to > build one..... > > I did it all backwards, initially. If I had it all to do again, I'd: > > 1-get a place to store and anchor the boat [free, i.e. own the place] > 2-get the tractor-trailer > 3-get the boat > > The good news is that wisdom can come from dysfunctional experience :-) > > You can be sure that the cost of ownership is going to take a bit bite > out of the pleasure of sailing unless... you nail down the above implied > costs, i.e. marinas, boatyards, moorings, winter storage, hauling, > maintenance and more....not to mention how much time will be expended > dealing with all these moving targets :-( > > Yep, trailer sailor you could be, no matter what size boat. > > I'm on an island off Cape Breton near the entrance to the Bras d'Or > Lakes and the Strait of Canso. > > Cordially, > Courtney > > > James Douglas wrote: > > > > > Thanks Courtney, > > > > This is a little gem of info...especially about the sleeper. It's > > quite a bit to invest but, as you pointed out it wouldn't > > depreciate. Also, it doesn't take one long to realize that storage > > and transportation can turn out to be a hugh percentage of your > > built cost if you're not careful. > > > > Another alluring twist on this is that one could pretty much turn a > > full sized boat into a "trailer sailor" and trailer her to different > > cruising areas; Pacific Northwest to Great Lakes to Florida to.... > > It'd definitely put a new slant on Kitchen Sink Camping as well! > > > > So, Courtney, I gather your on the East Coast somewhere? How far ar > > you along with your Boat? > > > > Jim Douglas > > North Vancouver, B.C. > > > > > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Courtney Thomas > > wrote: > > > >>I bought a tractor-trailer rig off Ebay for less than $5K that > >> > > would > > > >>easily haul your boat. You could also store her and work on her > >> > > anywhere > > > >>on the trailer. In fact you would then be in the flexible position > >> > > of > > > >>storing her at your convenience and when through..... have the > >>flexibility of moving her about at will to suit you, not marinas, > >> > > boat > > > >>yards, mooring arrangements, etc. Also good for winter storage. > >> > >>If you get one with a sleeper [I did] you can also warmly sleep at > >> > > the > > > >>boat or haul her long distances at relatively little cost. Should > >> > > also > > > >>facilitate a boat sale later as well. > >> > >>If all that's not enough, you can sell the rig when you decide you > >> > > no > > > >>longer need it. An old unit like I bought is not gonna go down > >> > > anymore > > > >>in price, so there's virtually no depreciation. > >> > >>Also, in case you don't know, there's no additional license > >> > > required as > > > >>long as you only haul your own stuff. No permitting, etc.. And > >> > > with only > > > >>liability insurance, it's not expensive to own. > >> > >>I had never driven one, but it's no big deal. Just arrange for > >> > > some off > > > >>road room 'til you get used to the tractor, then tractor with > >> > > empty > > > >>trailer, then.........loaded up. :-) > >> > >>HTH, > >>Courtney > >> > >> > >> > >>James Douglas wrote: > >> > >> > >>>Well after so so soooo long sitting on the bench I did it. I > >>> > > bought > > > >>>a 33 Simpson designed metal hull. Found this one listed in the > >>> > > Buy > > > >>>Sell for Alberta, got fotos and then I snapped up the deal!! No > >>> > > more > > > >>>armchairs for me!!! > >>> > >>>No, she is not orgami, but I will be seriously considering the > >>>practical solutions proposed by Brent and others in this group > >>> > > for > > > >>>all the different aspects of building a well equiped and fitted > >>> > > out > > > >>>metal boat. > >>> > >>>For the moment she has a spade keel and a trunk cabin and I > >>> > > would > > > >>>like to convert her so she sports bilge keels and a pilot > >>>house...She's a blank canvas willing to accept all the different > >>>improvements so earnestly discussed by this group. So I hope > >>> > > you > > > >>>won't kick me out. > >>> > >>>I have two concerns. First, if any members are in the vicinity > >>> > > of > > > >>>North Vancouver do they any one have any ideas as to where one > >>> > > can > > > >>>rent an inexpensive work site for the boat for, say, less than > >>>$200/month? Secondly, any ideas on how to move the boat > >>> > > cheaply > > > >>>from Calgary to Vancouver. She weighs about 10,000 lbs. with an > >>> > > 11 > > > >>>foot beam and probably under 13 foot high with her 5 foot > >>> > > draft. If > > > >>>one could one tow it themselves, how big/powerful a truck would > >>> > > you > > > >>>need? > >>> > >>>Thanks in advance and I know I should have found these things > >>> > > out > > > >>>before but it was a very good deal and I just could not pass it > >>> > > up, > > > >>>sooo...here we are!! > >>> > >>>Jim Douglas > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>>To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > >>>To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats- > >>> > > unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > >>>Yahoo! Groups Links > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >> > >>-- > >>s/v Mutiny > >>Rhodes Bounty II > >>lying Oriental, NC > >>WDB5619 > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats- unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > s/v Mutiny > Rhodes Bounty II > lying Oriental, NC > WDB5619 | 6280|5765|2004-11-24 19:20:38|brentswain38|Re: Cabin and deck beam ends|I've never welded the cabintop beam ends to the cabinsides . They are for overall stiffness of the cabintop and welding them to the cabinsides wouuld serve no usefull purpose.That would be wooden boat thinking. Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "edward_stoneuk" wrote: > > Brent, > Would that be the same for the cabin roof beams? If they are not > welded to the cabin sides the ends can be chamfered to ease painting > and save a couple of ounces. > Regards, > Ted > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "brentswain38" > wrote: > > > > The deck support pipes at the mast and further aft make welding > the > > ends of the deck beams to the hull unnecessary and totally > > redundant.Welding them to the hull would also cause distortion. > The > > cabinsides are beams on edge, so as long as they are connected to > the > > chine at four points , there is no possibility of any movement at > the > > hull deck joint.The beam extensions that Roberts suggests are > > cantilevered, whereas deck support posts are under compression > loads > > and are thus much stronger. > > Brent | 6281|6245|2004-11-24 19:22:34|brentswain38|Re: opening PortLights|Spend yopur money on what a boat is for; cruising. Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "seeratlas" wrote: > > One thing I've had some trouble working out is opening portlights. > For any size these things are extraordinarily expensive something over > 500.00 US a piece and I need a bunch of em LOL. > > In looking around for solutions I came upon the Cherubini boats and > their insanely simple slanted glass portlights. This is the only > portlight I've ever seen that can be left open during a good rain. > Now, since the Cherubinis are extremely high dollar boats (1.4 million > for the 48) I'll have to assume these things work, i.e. they do a > quality job of letting in light and air, yet seal up completely, and > the Cherubini family builds the portlights themselves. There is a > picture of them on their website. > > Has anyone ever seen or used anything similar? I think I may try to > incorporate these into my design. > > seer | 6282|6249|2004-11-24 19:25:56|brentswain38|Re: Good deals on boats|In the 70's I met a couple from Calgary who had built a wetsnail 32 . He was keen to head offshore and she was scared shitless. I met them a year later after they had returned from New Zealand. He hated it and she loved cruising.They sold the boat. he moved back to Calgary and the last time I met her , she was cruising BC with a boat load of Calgary nurses. One guy I built a boat for said both his ex wives were scared shitless of water when he met them. Both became rabid cruisers. Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, SHANE ROTHWELL wrote: > There has been mention of good deals available on > boats in west coast usa. Try Honoruru. Middle of > nowhere & just one 2-3 week offshore can piss off a > woman like I don't understand. They arrive, she storms > off, 3 weeks later he's not getting laid like he > figured he would, boat is sold to first dollar (in a > limited market). > > If you are looking for an expert on women I'm afraid > you have to look elsewhere as I am most definitely not > the guy > > > > > > > --- origamiboats@yahoogroups.com wrote: > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > --------------------~--> > > Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion > > Toolbar. > > Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! > > > http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/YmoolB/TM > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- ~-> > > > > > > There are 11 messages in this issue. > > > > Topics in this digest: > > > > 1. Re: Wow, much to learn , Carl > > From: "jericoera" > > 2. Reply to sailor > > From: "jericoera" > > 3. Re: Reply to sailor > > From: fmichael graham > > > > 4. Re: Reply to initiaboats > > From: "jericoera" > > 5. Re: Re: Reply to initiaboats > > From: fmichael graham > > > > 6. Re: Re: Reply to initiaboats > > From: Michael Casling > > 7. Re: Reply to initiaboats > > From: "seeratlas" > > 8. Re: Re: Reply to initiaboats > > From: Michael Casling > > 9. Re: Reply to initiaboats > > From: "seeratlas" > > 10. Re: Re: Reply to initiaboats > > From: Michael Casling > > 11. Composting toilets > > From: "seeratlas" > > > > > > > ______________________________________________________________________ __ > > > ______________________________________________________________________ __ > > > > Message: 1 > > Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 06:05:57 -0000 > > From: "jericoera" > > Subject: Re: Wow, much to learn , Carl > > > > > > Thanks everybody, sounds like some sound logic in > > your words of > > experience. As it turns out, my training will be on > > a C&C 25. > > > > I am reading what ever I can get my ands on and will > > once up to > > speed hopefully in the new year start crewing in the > > weekend races > > with some somewhat patient skippers and literally > > learn the ropes. > > > > My course will help with that somewhat I hope. > > > > On the subject of Swain boats, I am near certain I > > saw one in the > > Comox harbour today maybe two. It looked like a 36 > > foot beige > > pilothouse and I saw a green older metal boat that > > sat in the water > > the same around 31 feet but could not be sure if it > > was a Swain. > > Both were in the "free parking" so I assume at least > > that as close > > to the shore as they were that they were bilge > > keelers. > > > > I never knew how to ride a horse two years ago and I > > bought one and > > won the first race I entered. I think you just have > > to get out there > > and do it (and safely as possible) > > > > Thanks, Carl > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ______________________________________________________________________ __ > > > ______________________________________________________________________ __ > > > > Message: 2 > > Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 18:33:51 -0000 > > From: "jericoera" > > Subject: Reply to sailor > > > > > > Sailor, I acknowledge that this is not a real estate > > board and do > > not want to pump my property on it but as the > > proceeds are intended > > for a professionally made Swain,I will indulge and > > reply to you and > > hopefully not upst the moderator or others. > > Forgiveness requested! > > > > The Oceanfront I have is 6.33 acres right smack on > > the Bras dors > > Lakes in Nova Scotia which is in fact the world's > > largest in land > > sea and rated as the third best cruising grounds > > world wide by > > Cruising World Magazine which has posted numerous > > articles on the > > area. > > > > Its great because besides excellent wind and > > protected waters, I > > have deep water moorage available in front of the > > property so one > > could easily summer in the Bras Dor and then sail > > south to the > > Caribean or other parts. All services are to the lot > > line and > > property taxes are only a whopping $212 per year.I > > have not logged > > it, but the view would be magnificant and > > unobstructed with some > > logging which would be necessary for a building > > site. A variety of > > hard and softwoods on the property plus a neat pond > > that has water > > fowl in it periodically. > > > > The property continues to appreciate and will go up > > more > > substantially as the area becomes more developed > > with permanent > > residents. 15 minutes from St. Peters which has just > > updated their > > yacht club extensively. An excellent East coast > > property. > > > > Oh yeah, only $50 000 CDN plus HST (Nova Scotia > > harmonized Sales Tax) > > > > I promise, no more plugs on the property-- Just want > > to raise some > > Swain bucks. > > > > Carl McIntosh > > home email for more info shakeena@s... > > ph 604 485-0339 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Sailor" > > wrote: > > > What is the area? > > > > > > "jericoera" penned: > > > > Also for anyone who cares, I have cheap ocean > > front property I > > am > > > > selling to raise capital for the boat. > > > > > > > > > > > > > ______________________________________________________________________ __ > > > ______________________________________________________________________ __ > > > > Message: 3 > > Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 17:06:32 -0500 (EST) > > From: fmichael graham > > Subject: Re: Reply to sailor > > > > Carl, et al: > > Now I wish I hadn't bought my property in Prince > > George, B.C.! For those interested, I spent most of > > a year out that way, at the Coast Guard College in > > Sydney(enough y's?) and, if ever chased out of B.C., > > would be heading for Cape Breton, specifically Bras > > Dor lakes. Beautiful doesn't begin to describe the > > area & the local residents are second to none. It > > must be hard for you to part with your land, Carl. > > Good luck on the sale, as you must be giving up one > > dream to pursue another. Is St. Peters home to the > > North Sydney Yacht Club? I don't remember the name > > (St. Peters) but any waterfront on the lakes is > > worth having, just ask Alexander Graham Bell. > > Regards, > > Mike Graham > > > > > > > === message truncated === > > ______________________________________________________________________ > Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca | 6283|6245|2004-11-24 21:06:19|gschnell|Re: opening PortLights|I have not used them, however, a friend of mine put them in his 36' about 7 years ago. He is now working in Fiji. First thing he did was remove them. They leaked incessantly. Glass did not seal well. I don't know why. Gord brentswain38 wrote: > > Spend yopur money on what a boat is for; cruising. > Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "seeratlas" > wrote: > > > > One thing I've had some trouble working out is opening portlights. > > For any size these things are extraordinarily expensive something > over > > 500.00 US a piece and I need a bunch of em LOL. > > > > In looking around for solutions I came upon the Cherubini boats and > > their insanely simple slanted glass portlights. This is the only > > portlight I've ever seen that can be left open during a good rain. > > Now, since the Cherubinis are extremely high dollar boats (1.4 > million > > for the 48) I'll have to assume these things work, i.e. they do a > > quality job of letting in light and air, yet seal up completely, and > > > the Cherubini family builds the portlights themselves. There is a > > picture of them on their website. > > > > Has anyone ever seen or used anything similar? I think I may try to > > incorporate these into my design. > > > > seer > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT [click here] > > --------------------------------------------------------------- > Yahoo! Groups Links > > * To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/ > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > Service. > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]| 6284|6284|2004-11-25 12:57:37|SHANE ROTHWELL|Good Deals on boats|Hi Brent, Sounds like the exeption that proves the rule. Remember, if you are looking for an expert on women I'm afraid you are going to have to look elsewhere as it's not me. Cheers, Shane ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca| 6285|6225|2004-11-25 22:17:32|James Douglas|Re: 33 foot Simpson metal hull acquired.|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "brentswain38" wrote: > > Maggie had a trailer in Royston , made to fit one of my 36 footers, > road licensed and all for $500. The brakes , etc were frozen and need > a bit of work. I don't have her phone number , but she has the bead > shoppe at the Fulford ferry terminal on Salspring island. > Mosquito Creek in N Van may be available. I knew a guy who built a > 40 footer from scratch there. > Brent > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Courtney Thomas > wrote: > > Jim, > > > > At my age I bought one to sail while I put together all the pieces > to > > build one..... > > > > I did it all backwards, initially. If I had it all to do again, I'd: > > > > 1-get a place to store and anchor the boat [free, i.e. own the > place] > > 2-get the tractor-trailer > > 3-get the boat > > > > The good news is that wisdom can come from dysfunctional > experience :-) > > > > You can be sure that the cost of ownership is going to take a bit > bite > > out of the pleasure of sailing unless... you nail down the above > implied > > costs, i.e. marinas, boatyards, moorings, winter storage, hauling, > > maintenance and more....not to mention how much time will be > expended > > dealing with all these moving targets :-( > > > > Yep, trailer sailor you could be, no matter what size boat. > > > > I'm on an island off Cape Breton near the entrance to the Bras d'Or > > Lakes and the Strait of Canso. > > > > Cordially, > > Courtney > > > > > > James Douglas wrote: > > > > > > > > Thanks Courtney, > > > > > > This is a little gem of info...especially about the sleeper. > It's > > > quite a bit to invest but, as you pointed out it wouldn't > > > depreciate. Also, it doesn't take one long to realize that > storage > > > and transportation can turn out to be a hugh percentage of your > > > built cost if you're not careful. > > > > > > Another alluring twist on this is that one could pretty much turn > a > > > full sized boat into a "trailer sailor" and trailer her to > different > > > cruising areas; Pacific Northwest to Great Lakes to Florida to.... > > > It'd definitely put a new slant on Kitchen Sink Camping as well! > > > > > > So, Courtney, I gather your on the East Coast somewhere? How far > ar > > > you along with your Boat? > > > > > > Jim Douglas > > > North Vancouver, B.C. > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Courtney Thomas > > > > wrote: > > > > > >>I bought a tractor-trailer rig off Ebay for less than $5K that > > >> > > > would > > > > > >>easily haul your boat. You could also store her and work on her > > >> > > > anywhere > > > > > >>on the trailer. In fact you would then be in the flexible > position > > >> > > > of > > > > > >>storing her at your convenience and when through..... have the > > >>flexibility of moving her about at will to suit you, not marinas, > > >> > > > boat > > > > > >>yards, mooring arrangements, etc. Also good for winter storage. > > >> > > >>If you get one with a sleeper [I did] you can also warmly sleep > at > > >> > > > the > > > > > >>boat or haul her long distances at relatively little cost. Should > > >> > > > also > > > > > >>facilitate a boat sale later as well. > > >> > > >>If all that's not enough, you can sell the rig when you decide > you > > >> > > > no > > > > > >>longer need it. An old unit like I bought is not gonna go down > > >> > > > anymore > > > > > >>in price, so there's virtually no depreciation. > > >> > > >>Also, in case you don't know, there's no additional license > > >> > > > required as > > > > > >>long as you only haul your own stuff. No permitting, etc.. And > > >> > > > with only > > > > > >>liability insurance, it's not expensive to own. > > >> > > >>I had never driven one, but it's no big deal. Just arrange for > > >> > > > some off > > > > > >>road room 'til you get used to the tractor, then tractor with > > >> > > > empty > > > > > >>trailer, then.........loaded up. :-) > > >> > > >>HTH, > > >>Courtney > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >>James Douglas wrote: > > >> > > >> > > >>>Well after so so soooo long sitting on the bench I did it. I > > >>> > > > bought > > > > > >>>a 33 Simpson designed metal hull. Found this one listed in the > > >>> > > > Buy > > > > > >>>Sell for Alberta, got fotos and then I snapped up the deal!! No > > >>> > > > more > > > > > >>>armchairs for me!!! > > >>> > > >>>No, she is not orgami, but I will be seriously considering the > > >>>practical solutions proposed by Brent and others in this group > > >>> > > > for > > > > > >>>all the different aspects of building a well equiped and fitted > > >>> > > > out > > > > > >>>metal boat. > > >>> > > >>>For the moment she has a spade keel and a trunk cabin and I > > >>> > > > would > > > > > >>>like to convert her so she sports bilge keels and a pilot > > >>>house...She's a blank canvas willing to accept all the different > > >>>improvements so earnestly discussed by this group. So I hope > > >>> > > > you > > > > > >>>won't kick me out. > > >>> > > >>>I have two concerns. First, if any members are in the vicinity > > >>> > > > of > > > > > >>>North Vancouver do they any one have any ideas as to where one > > >>> > > > can > > > > > >>>rent an inexpensive work site for the boat for, say, less than > > >>>$200/month? Secondly, any ideas on how to move the boat > > >>> > > > cheaply > > > > > >>>from Calgary to Vancouver. She weighs about 10,000 lbs. with an > > >>> > > > 11 > > > > > >>>foot beam and probably under 13 foot high with her 5 foot > > >>> > > > draft. If > > > > > >>>one could one tow it themselves, how big/powerful a truck would > > >>> > > > you > > > > > >>>need? > > >>> > > >>>Thanks in advance and I know I should have found these things > > >>> > > > out > > > > > >>>before but it was a very good deal and I just could not pass it > > >>> > > > up, > > > > > >>>sooo...here we are!! > > >>> > > >>>Jim Douglas > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>>To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > >>>To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats- > > >>> > > > unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > > >>>Yahoo! Groups Links > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >> > > >>-- > > >>s/v Mutiny > > >>Rhodes Bounty II > > >>lying Oriental, NC > > >>WDB5619 > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats- > unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > s/v Mutiny > > Rhodes Bounty II > > lying Oriental, NC > > WDB5619 | 6286|6245|2004-11-26 11:12:19|dreemer1962|Re: Tanton Wishbone Rig|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "yvesmariedetanton" wrote: > > I am not recommending for amateurs to build carbon fiber rigs. > Why add to a low tech boat the expense of a high tech and high cost > rig? And I consider the junk rig an expensive proposition as well. > Hell of a lot of high tech junks around. Now and maybe,contact david. > hanson@s... I believe he has a couple of Freedom masts for > sale. No warranty. How about wooden mast with epoxy and glass cloth? For some configurations, if kept short, maybe even steel free-standing mast could work, despite its weight. For example, a cat schooner with a relatively low gaff rig and corresponding low heeling forces. Milan| 6287|6245|2004-11-26 20:20:51|seeratlas|Re: opening PortLights|Gord, Brent, I had opening ports on the Falcon and ran up and down the west coast for around 12 years with them. These were hi buck ports (I didn't pay for em) and all but one sealed pretty well. I fixxed the one that didn't but not before it stained the oak right below it. The problem with the design was that the frame of thge port collects water from spray, dew what have you and everytime you open it you get a few ounces pouring into the boat. Stupid really. That and the expense have caused me to look elsewhere. The Cherubini design seems pretty sound to me, I'll have to get a good close up look at one before I make any decisions. Dunno bout you guys but the humidity inside a closed boat in a rain gets a bit much for me. If its warm, starting up the stove to heat/dry up the air is a non starter. Being able to open up the ports at harbor seems to me a worthwhile thing to investigate. oh, ps, dogging down all ports before leaving harbor was always on my checklist. :) seer --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, gschnell wrote: > I have not used them, however, a friend of mine put them in his 36' > about 7 years ago. He is now working in Fiji. First thing he did was > remove them. They leaked incessantly. Glass did not seal well. I don't > know why. > Gord > > > brentswain38 wrote: > > > > > Spend yopur money on what a boat is for; cruising. > > Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "seeratlas" > > wrote: > > > > > > One thing I've had some trouble working out is opening portlights. > > > For any size these things are extraordinarily expensive something > > over > > > 500.00 US a piece and I need a bunch of em LOL. > > > > > > In looking around for solutions I came upon the Cherubini boats and > > > their insanely simple slanted glass portlights. This is the only > > > portlight I've ever seen that can be left open during a good rain. > > > Now, since the Cherubinis are extremely high dollar boats (1.4 > > million > > > for the 48) I'll have to assume these things work, i.e. they do a > > > quality job of letting in light and air, yet seal up completely, and > > > > > the Cherubini family builds the portlights themselves. There is a > > > picture of them on their website. > > > > > > Has anyone ever seen or used anything similar? I think I may try to > > > incorporate these into my design. > > > > > > seer > > > > > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ADVERTISEMENT > [click here] > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------- > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > * To visit your group on the web, go to: > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/ > > > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > > Service. > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 6288|6245|2004-11-27 00:13:48|Alex Christie|Re: opening PortLights|Hi Group, A friend from the US who is also building an origami boat showed me a portlight he had acquired from the Fuller Brush Company of America. What??? I was surprised that Fuller would be interested in marine parts, but they are indeed. It looks like all they build is the portlight, nothing else. The example I saw seemed like a really well built unit, not cheezy at all. ABS injection molded frame, 5/8th thick cast acrylic window and a "15° downward slant molded into spigot for outward drainage" ( I am assuming this might deal with the problem of having water drain into boat when the light is opened). Brent has no opening portlights on the sides of the hull or cabin, yet is able to obtain sufficient cooling breezes through the bow hatch and pilot-house door, even inf tropical climates. There is one opening portlight for the centre window on the pilot-house of most of the examples of his boats I have seen. Anyone else seen these Fuller Brush portlights? www.fullermarine.com Alex [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]| 6289|6245|2004-11-27 00:15:54|Alex Christie|Fuller portlight price|I've just checked the price for each portlight, $177 each. Not bad? Alex| 6290|6245|2004-11-29 09:14:34|seeratlas|Re: Fuller portlight price|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Alex Christie wrote: > I've just checked the price for each portlight, $177 each. Not bad? > > Alex Depending on size that a heck of lot less than I've seen in the stainless ones I've been researching. seer| 6291|6245|2004-11-29 19:10:41|brentswain38|Re: opening PortLights|If you're talking about the portholes where you drop a wedge in either end, Paul used them on one of my 36 footers , leaking all the way to Fiji, where he threw them overboard and replaced them with something more watertight. Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "seeratlas" wrote: > > One thing I've had some trouble working out is opening portlights. > For any size these things are extraordinarily expensive something over > 500.00 US a piece and I need a bunch of em LOL. > > In looking around for solutions I came upon the Cherubini boats and > their insanely simple slanted glass portlights. This is the only > portlight I've ever seen that can be left open during a good rain. > Now, since the Cherubinis are extremely high dollar boats (1.4 million > for the 48) I'll have to assume these things work, i.e. they do a > quality job of letting in light and air, yet seal up completely, and > the Cherubini family builds the portlights themselves. There is a > picture of them on their website. > > Has anyone ever seen or used anything similar? I think I may try to > incorporate these into my design. > > seer | 6292|6225|2004-11-29 19:15:40|brentswain38|Re: 33 foot Simpson metal hull acquired.|My curent boat is 20 years old and I've never paid to tie it to a dock yet. That leaves a lot of cruising funds in the kitty.It also eliminates the stress of having to deal with warfingers on power trips. Why would I pay someone for a sevice that I dont need, pay someone to hand me a long list of what I can and can't do on my own boat? Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "James Douglas" wrote: > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "brentswain38" > wrote: > > > > Maggie had a trailer in Royston , made to fit one of my 36 > footers, > > road licensed and all for $500. The brakes , etc were frozen and > need > > a bit of work. I don't have her phone number , but she has the > bead > > shoppe at the Fulford ferry terminal on Salspring island. > > Mosquito Creek in N Van may be available. I knew a guy who built > a > > 40 footer from scratch there. > > Brent > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Courtney Thomas > > > wrote: > > > Jim, > > > > > > At my age I bought one to sail while I put together all the > pieces > > to > > > build one..... > > > > > > I did it all backwards, initially. If I had it all to do again, > I'd: > > > > > > 1-get a place to store and anchor the boat [free, i.e. own the > > place] > > > 2-get the tractor-trailer > > > 3-get the boat > > > > > > The good news is that wisdom can come from dysfunctional > > experience :-) > > > > > > You can be sure that the cost of ownership is going to take a > bit > > bite > > > out of the pleasure of sailing unless... you nail down the above > > implied > > > costs, i.e. marinas, boatyards, moorings, winter storage, > hauling, > > > maintenance and more....not to mention how much time will be > > expended > > > dealing with all these moving targets :-( > > > > > > Yep, trailer sailor you could be, no matter what size boat. > > > > > > I'm on an island off Cape Breton near the entrance to the Bras > d'Or > > > Lakes and the Strait of Canso. > > > > > > Cordially, > > > Courtney > > > > > > > > > James Douglas wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks Courtney, > > > > > > > > This is a little gem of info...especially about the sleeper. > > It's > > > > quite a bit to invest but, as you pointed out it wouldn't > > > > depreciate. Also, it doesn't take one long to realize that > > storage > > > > and transportation can turn out to be a hugh percentage of > your > > > > built cost if you're not careful. > > > > > > > > Another alluring twist on this is that one could pretty much > turn > > a > > > > full sized boat into a "trailer sailor" and trailer her to > > different > > > > cruising areas; Pacific Northwest to Great Lakes to Florida > to.... > > > > It'd definitely put a new slant on Kitchen Sink Camping as > well! > > > > > > > > So, Courtney, I gather your on the East Coast somewhere? How > far > > ar > > > > you along with your Boat? > > > > > > > > Jim Douglas > > > > North Vancouver, B.C. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Courtney Thomas > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > >>I bought a tractor-trailer rig off Ebay for less than $5K that > > > >> > > > > would > > > > > > > >>easily haul your boat. You could also store her and work on > her > > > >> > > > > anywhere > > > > > > > >>on the trailer. In fact you would then be in the flexible > > position > > > >> > > > > of > > > > > > > >>storing her at your convenience and when through..... have the > > > >>flexibility of moving her about at will to suit you, not > marinas, > > > >> > > > > boat > > > > > > > >>yards, mooring arrangements, etc. Also good for winter storage. > > > >> > > > >>If you get one with a sleeper [I did] you can also warmly > sleep > > at > > > >> > > > > the > > > > > > > >>boat or haul her long distances at relatively little cost. > Should > > > >> > > > > also > > > > > > > >>facilitate a boat sale later as well. > > > >> > > > >>If all that's not enough, you can sell the rig when you decide > > you > > > >> > > > > no > > > > > > > >>longer need it. An old unit like I bought is not gonna go down > > > >> > > > > anymore > > > > > > > >>in price, so there's virtually no depreciation. > > > >> > > > >>Also, in case you don't know, there's no additional license > > > >> > > > > required as > > > > > > > >>long as you only haul your own stuff. No permitting, etc.. And > > > >> > > > > with only > > > > > > > >>liability insurance, it's not expensive to own. > > > >> > > > >>I had never driven one, but it's no big deal. Just arrange for > > > >> > > > > some off > > > > > > > >>road room 'til you get used to the tractor, then tractor with > > > >> > > > > empty > > > > > > > >>trailer, then.........loaded up. :-) > > > >> > > > >>HTH, > > > >>Courtney > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >>James Douglas wrote: > > > >> > > > >> > > > >>>Well after so so soooo long sitting on the bench I did it. I > > > >>> > > > > bought > > > > > > > >>>a 33 Simpson designed metal hull. Found this one listed in > the > > > >>> > > > > Buy > > > > > > > >>>Sell for Alberta, got fotos and then I snapped up the deal!! > No > > > >>> > > > > more > > > > > > > >>>armchairs for me!!! > > > >>> > > > >>>No, she is not orgami, but I will be seriously considering > the > > > >>>practical solutions proposed by Brent and others in this > group > > > >>> > > > > for > > > > > > > >>>all the different aspects of building a well equiped and > fitted > > > >>> > > > > out > > > > > > > >>>metal boat. > > > >>> > > > >>>For the moment she has a spade keel and a trunk cabin and I > > > >>> > > > > would > > > > > > > >>>like to convert her so she sports bilge keels and a pilot > > > >>>house...She's a blank canvas willing to accept all the > different > > > >>>improvements so earnestly discussed by this group. So I hope > > > >>> > > > > you > > > > > > > >>>won't kick me out. > > > >>> > > > >>>I have two concerns. First, if any members are in the > vicinity > > > >>> > > > > of > > > > > > > >>>North Vancouver do they any one have any ideas as to where > one > > > >>> > > > > can > > > > > > > >>>rent an inexpensive work site for the boat for, say, less > than > > > >>>$200/month? Secondly, any ideas on how to move the boat > > > >>> > > > > cheaply > > > > > > > >>>from Calgary to Vancouver. She weighs about 10,000 lbs. with > an > > > >>> > > > > 11 > > > > > > > >>>foot beam and probably under 13 foot high with her 5 foot > > > >>> > > > > draft. If > > > > > > > >>>one could one tow it themselves, how big/powerful a truck > would > > > >>> > > > > you > > > > > > > >>>need? > > > >>> > > > >>>Thanks in advance and I know I should have found these things > > > >>> > > > > out > > > > > > > >>>before but it was a very good deal and I just could not pass > it > > > >>> > > > > up, > > > > > > > >>>sooo...here we are!! > > > >>> > > > >>>Jim Douglas > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>>To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > > >>>To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats- > > > >>> > > > > unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > >>>Yahoo! Groups Links > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >> > > > >>-- > > > >>s/v Mutiny > > > >>Rhodes Bounty II > > > >>lying Oriental, NC > > > >>WDB5619 > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats- > > unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > s/v Mutiny > > > Rhodes Bounty II > > > lying Oriental, NC > > > WDB5619 | 6293|6245|2004-11-29 19:18:49|brentswain38|Re: Fuller portlight price|I wouldn't trust any portlight which wasn't made of metal. Some of those plastic ports have 1/16th inch hinge pins in tiny bits of plastic for hinges. You could kick them in with little effort. Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Alex Christie wrote: > I've just checked the price for each portlight, $177 each. Not bad? > > Alex | 6294|6224|2004-11-30 13:58:09|Sugar|Re: Women|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "James Douglas" wrote: > > I have always noticed that the pussy cats always turn up around a > guy that's having a good time of life. Chances are if your single > now you'll probably have all the attention you need after you've > launched and started sailing. If you meet one before that time > who'll pitch in and help... well you've got a trooper on your hands > and your probably made for life....honestly. > > So I'm saving myself for that day....see next post. > > Jim douglas Very true Jim. Too bad that some women end up with men that don't acknowledge that or can't see that or just take those facts for granted. There are some of us around that are just as interested in boats, the ocean, and traveling as you men. We love working with are hands fixing, building and making things work just as much as men, and will always pitch in and help with the work at hand. And in the end, we too feel good inside looking back, knowing that we helped in making that dream come true and we too enjoy the fun side just as much as you. Unfortuantely there are some men that have too much pride to acknowledge how great it really is to be able to share their interests with someone they have everything in common with. Someone that will be there thru the thick and thin of life. Some men are afraid to say how they feel, afraid that maybe, just maybe, the grass is greener somewhere besides home. So...they let the perfect woman slip away. Hold on to your positive thoughts. There are women like me out there that would go anywhere, do anything for the man we truly love. And we will always enjoy every moment we share with that special man. And yes, we will always "pitch in and help". Even the work is FUN when you share it with someone you care about. SeerAtlasAngel| 6295|6221|2004-11-30 14:04:08|Sugar|Re: A reflection on your comments|Wow, beautiful words and insite. And very TRUE. SeerAtlasAngel --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "jericoera" wrote: > > You all have given some food for thought about relationship dynamics > and life aboard. While some people's wives may be afraid to die and > cling desperately to shore, my wife and I have always sought > adventure and we are more terrified of not living. > > I would think it safe to say we all agree that time is not our > friend, it is working against us every minute of our lives. > Therefore, it should not be squandered. > > Every day should be something to behold. > > Carl | 6296|6296|2004-11-30 14:16:49|richytill|building dreams|Many set out to build boats. Some sail off to realise thier dreams; some do not. I came a ccross this quote: "If you want to build a ship, don't drum up the men to gather the wood, divide the work and give orders. Instead, teach them to yearn for the vast and endless sea." Antoine de St. Expury. rt| 6297|6296|2004-11-30 14:24:35|Sugar|Re: building dreams|Excellent ! SeerAtlasAngel In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "richytill" wrote: > > Many set out to build boats. Some sail off to realise thier dreams; > some do not. I came a ccross this quote: "If you want to build a > ship, don't drum up the men to gather the wood, divide the work and > give orders. Instead, teach them to yearn for the vast and endless > sea." Antoine de St. Expury. rt| 6298|6296|2004-11-30 23:04:30|Michael Casling|Re: building dreams|It is an extension of the sales philosophy that started with building a better burger, and progressed to painting a picture ( like a boat on the water ) and putting folks in it. Michael ----- Original Message ----- From: richytill To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, November 30, 2004 11:15 AM Subject: [origamiboats] building dreams Many set out to build boats. Some sail off to realise thier dreams; some do not. I came a ccross this quote: "If you want to build a ship, don't drum up the men to gather the wood, divide the work and give orders. Instead, teach them to yearn for the vast and endless sea." Antoine de St. Expury. rt To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links a.. To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/ b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 6299|6224|2004-11-30 23:16:16|Michael Casling|Re: Women|I met plenty of girls that liked to go sailing but only one ever offered to help paint the bottom. Michael ----- Original Message ----- From: Sugar To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, November 30, 2004 10:57 AM Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Women --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "James Douglas" wrote: > > I have always noticed that the pussy cats always turn up around a > guy that's having a good time of life. Chances are if your single > now you'll probably have all the attention you need after you've > launched and started sailing. If you meet one before that time > who'll pitch in and help... well you've got a trooper on your hands > and your probably made for life....honestly. > > So I'm saving myself for that day....see next post. > > Jim douglas Very true Jim. Too bad that some women end up with men that don't acknowledge that or can't see that or just take those facts for granted. There are some of us around that are just as interested in boats, the ocean, and traveling as you men. We love working with are hands fixing, building and making things work just as much as men, and will always pitch in and help with the work at hand. And in the end, we too feel good inside looking back, knowing that we helped in making that dream come true and we too enjoy the fun side just as much as you. Unfortuantely there are some men that have too much pride to acknowledge how great it really is to be able to share their interests with someone they have everything in common with. Someone that will be there thru the thick and thin of life. Some men are afraid to say how they feel, afraid that maybe, just maybe, the grass is greener somewhere besides home. So...they let the perfect woman slip away. Hold on to your positive thoughts. There are women like me out there that would go anywhere, do anything for the man we truly love. And we will always enjoy every moment we share with that special man. And yes, we will always "pitch in and help". Even the work is FUN when you share it with someone you care about. SeerAtlasAngel To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links a.. To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/ b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 6300|6296|2004-12-01 19:34:52|richytill|Re: building dreams|I must confess that it is that yearning for the sea that keeps me motivated. Building the hull was fun; the engine project has been interesting, interior wood-work is becoming mostly work--now that the boat floats I just want to go sailing off to somewhere warm. rt --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Michael Casling wrote: > It is an extension of the sales philosophy that started with building a better burger, and progressed to painting a picture ( like a boat on the water ) and putting folks in it. > Michael > ----- Original Message ----- > From: richytill > To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Tuesday, November 30, 2004 11:15 AM > Subject: [origamiboats] building dreams > > > > Many set out to build boats. Some sail off to realise thier dreams; > some do not. I came a ccross this quote: "If you want to build a > ship, don't drum up the men to gather the wood, divide the work and > give orders. Instead, teach them to yearn for the vast and endless > sea." Antoine de St. Expury. rt > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats- unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ADVERTISEMENT > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------- > Yahoo! Groups Links > > a.. To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/ > > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 6301|6224|2004-12-02 06:35:55|Alfredo Nannetti|Re: Women|Hi to evribody, my name is Alfredo and I'm writing from Italy. I join this forum few days ago and I have to say it's very interesting. Later on I will have to ask you some questions if you wish to answer... But when I read the writing of "Sugar" I couldn't resist and I need to say something. I totally agree when you say about the difficulty or the fear of some (maybe most) men to see the "greener grass" but its even important that woman do things not to "help" or "share with" a man, but first of all for herself. Becouse she belives in that! After that they wouldn't "help" a man but they will do something togheter..and a man (if he doesen't run away....) won't wait an help from the woman but he will do something with her! In this way maybe we can discover the greenest grass togheter. I do apologize to evrybody about my awful english.... Alfredo| 6302|6224|2004-12-02 08:28:52|seeratlas|Re: Women|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Alfredo Nannetti" wrote: > Hi to evribody, > my name is Alfredo and I'm writing from Italy. > I join this forum few days ago and I have to say it's very interesting. > Later on I will have to ask you some questions if you wish to > answer... > But when I read the writing of "Sugar" I couldn't resist and I need to > say something. > I totally agree when you say about the difficulty or the fear of some > (maybe most) men to see the "greener grass" but its even > important that woman do things not to "help" or "share with" a > man, but first of all for herself. Becouse she belives in that! After > that they wouldn't "help" a man but they will do something > togheter..and a man (if he doesen't run away....) won't wait an help > from the woman but he will do something with her! > In this way maybe we can discover the greenest grass togheter. > > I do apologize to evrybody about my awful english.... > > Alfredo Ahhh, Italians and women :) We've gotten pretty far afield here so I'll try and make this my last post on the subject, however I can't resist. :) I attended University in Italy for a time and I'll try and recount the story the way I heard it there. Seems that Charles the Fifth (Holy Roman Emperor) was asked which was his favored language of all the ones he spoke. His reply was that: "I speak Spanish to my God, German to my Horse, French to my Friends and.....Italian to my Women " heheheh Ciao Alfredo. :)| 6303|6224|2004-12-02 10:24:13|Sugar|Re: Women|Benvenuto Alfredo :) Beautiful words. I agree with you. Men and women have to do what they love for themselves, not just because the person they are with loves it, but becuase it is in them, because they truly love it too. That is what life is really all about. Like Jim said, it just works out great when you find someone that has the same passion in life as you. Someone that is really willing to pitch in, help, share the good and the bad. Me...I love life. We only have one shot at it. And I am not willing to waste a minute of it. I am one of those women that gives 100 percent to the things I love. And when that means digging in there working, and yes Michael, even painting the bottom of the boat, I'm one of those women that Jim mentioned. Michael, I bet even now thinking about that time when the 2 of you painted the bottom of the boat you have some good memories. I'm sure you both laughed when some would have yelled and screamed. She helped paint the bottom of the boat because it was the right thing to do and she enjoyed your company, even the work! There's nothing better than being in the middle of doing a hard job and one of you doing or saying something where you both start laughing. And that's when you realize that even work can become something fun with the right person. And boats and the ocean....well life just doesn't get any better than that! Sugar -- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "seeratlas" wrote: > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Alfredo Nannetti" > wrote: > > Hi to evribody, > > my name is Alfredo and I'm writing from Italy. > > I join this forum few days ago and I have to say it's very interesting. > > Later on I will have to ask you some questions if you wish to > > answer... > > But when I read the writing of "Sugar" I couldn't resist and I need to > > say something. > > I totally agree when you say about the difficulty or the fear of some > > (maybe most) men to see the "greener grass" but its even > > important that woman do things not to "help" or "share with" a > > man, but first of all for herself. Becouse she belives in that! After > > that they wouldn't "help" a man but they will do something > > togheter..and a man (if he doesen't run away....) won't wait an help > > from the woman but he will do something with her! > > In this way maybe we can discover the greenest grass togheter. > > > > I do apologize to evrybody about my awful english.... > > > > Alfredo > > Ahhh, Italians and women :) > We've gotten pretty far afield here so I'll try and make this my last > post on the subject, however I can't resist. :) I attended University > in Italy for a time and I'll try and recount the story the way I heard > it there. > > Seems that Charles the Fifth (Holy Roman Emperor) was asked which was > his favored language of all the ones he spoke. His reply was that: > > "I speak Spanish to my God, German to my Horse, French to my Friends > and.....Italian to my Women " heheheh > > Ciao Alfredo. :) | 6304|6245|2004-12-03 09:54:18|yvesmariedetanton|Re: Tanton Wishbone Rig|Yes, for amateur builders (and professionals), the alternative of wooden masts construction is possible. I have a 21M. schooner with free standing plywood, carbon reinforced turning masts in the charter trade. Over 21 Atlantic crossings so far. Another 15M steel cat-ketch is fitted with plain square, tapered free standing wooden masts. It all works if properly engineered and built. I simply think that a whole carbon composite rig is still an expensive proposition for the origami approaches sponsored within this group. --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "dreemer1962" wrote: > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "yvesmariedetanton" > wrote: > > > > I am not recommending for amateurs to build carbon fiber rigs. > > Why add to a low tech boat the expense of a high tech and high cost > > rig? And I consider the junk rig an expensive proposition as well. > > Hell of a lot of high tech junks around. Now and maybe,contact > david. > > hanson@s... I believe he has a couple of Freedom masts for > > sale. No warranty. > > > > How about wooden mast with epoxy and glass cloth? For some > configurations, if kept short, maybe even steel free-standing mast > could work, despite its weight. For example, a cat schooner with a > relatively low gaff rig and corresponding low heeling forces. > > Milan | 6305|6245|2004-12-03 22:07:52|brentswain38|Re: opening PortLights|Check the size and strength of the hinges . They are usually the weak point. I've never seen strong enough ones on plastic ports, I don't believe it's possible to make plastic hinges strong enough.It only takes once to accidently leave your ports open when a surprise squall hits and puts them underwater.Then your in real trouble. Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Alex Christie wrote: > Hi Group, > > A friend from the US who is also building an origami boat showed me a > portlight he had acquired from the Fuller Brush Company of America. > What??? I was surprised that Fuller would be interested in marine > parts, but they are indeed. It looks like all they build is the > portlight, nothing else. The example I saw seemed like a really well > built unit, not cheezy at all. ABS injection molded frame, 5/8th thick > cast acrylic window and a "15° downward slant molded into spigot for > outward drainage" ( I am assuming this might deal with the problem of > having water drain into boat when the light is opened). > > Brent has no opening portlights on the sides of the hull or cabin, yet > is able to obtain sufficient cooling breezes through the bow hatch and > pilot-house door, even inf tropical climates. There is one opening > portlight for the centre window on the pilot-house of most of the > examples of his boats I have seen. > > Anyone else seen these Fuller Brush portlights? > > www.fullermarine.com > > Alex > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 6306|6224|2004-12-03 22:15:48|brentswain38|Re: Women|All thru my hormonal twenties and thirties I met all knds of women who claimed to have an interest in cruising.Some practically begged me to take them sailing. When invited ,95 % of them never showed up. I tried something less threatening like inviting them to meet me for coffee. Still they never showed up. When the excuses got down to " I couldn't make it by noon saturday because I like to sleep in on saturdays." I gave up. Most singlehanders I've talked to have had the same experiences. Now when the claim to be interested in sailing, I'm disinclined to believe them. Thank god the need to have a woman in my life has passed . The freedom is wonderful. Make room for a woman aboard and when you are ready to go, leave with or without a crew. If I'd waited for a cruising crew I'd have done very little sailing over the last 30 years.Thank god I never let it stop me from going. Brent Swain --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Michael Casling wrote: > I met plenty of girls that liked to go sailing but only one ever offered to help paint the bottom. > Michael > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Sugar > To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Tuesday, November 30, 2004 10:57 AM > Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Women > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "James Douglas" > wrote: > > > > I have always noticed that the pussy cats always turn up around a > > guy that's having a good time of life. Chances are if your single > > now you'll probably have all the attention you need after you've > > launched and started sailing. If you meet one before that time > > who'll pitch in and help... well you've got a trooper on your hands > > and your probably made for life....honestly. > > > > So I'm saving myself for that day....see next post. > > > > Jim douglas > > > Very true Jim. Too bad that some women end up with men that don't > acknowledge that or can't see that or just take those facts for > granted. There are some of us around that are just as interested in > boats, the ocean, and traveling as you men. We love working with are > hands fixing, building and making things work just as much as men, and > will always pitch in and help with the work at hand. And in the end, > we too feel good inside looking back, knowing that we helped in making > that dream come true and we too enjoy the fun side just as much as > you. Unfortuantely there are some men that have too much pride to > acknowledge how great it really is to be able to share their interests > with someone they have everything in common with. Someone that will > be there thru the thick and thin of life. Some men are afraid to say > how they feel, afraid that maybe, just maybe, the grass is greener > somewhere besides home. So...they let the perfect woman slip away. > Hold on to your positive thoughts. There are women like me out there > that would go anywhere, do anything for the man we truly love. And we > will always enjoy every moment we share with that special man. And > yes, we will always "pitch in and help". Even the work is FUN when > you share it with someone you care about. > SeerAtlasAngel > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats- unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ADVERTISEMENT > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------- > Yahoo! Groups Links > > a.. To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/ > > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 6307|6296|2004-12-03 22:21:01|brentswain38|Re: building dreams|You can do a lot of finishing while cruising.My boat was a bare plywood rough interior when I first went cruising. It's taken years to evolve. When you cruise , you are always thinking up beter and simpler ways to do things. The evolved interior is usually better than the pre built one, from a functional standpoint, and you have more fun in the meantime. Brent Swain --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "richytill" wrote: > > I must confess that it is that yearning for the sea that keeps me > motivated. Building the hull was fun; the engine project has been > interesting, interior wood-work is becoming mostly work--now that the > boat floats I just want to go sailing off to somewhere warm. rt > > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Michael Casling > wrote: > > It is an extension of the sales philosophy that started with > building a better burger, and progressed to painting a picture ( like > a boat on the water ) and putting folks in it. > > Michael > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: richytill > > To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Tuesday, November 30, 2004 11:15 AM > > Subject: [origamiboats] building dreams > > > > > > > > Many set out to build boats. Some sail off to realise thier > dreams; > > some do not. I came a ccross this quote: "If you want to build a > > ship, don't drum up the men to gather the wood, divide the work > and > > give orders. Instead, teach them to yearn for the vast and > endless > > sea." Antoine de St. Expury. rt > > > > > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats- > unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > ADVERTISEMENT > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ -- > ---------- > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > a.. To visit your group on the web, go to: > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/ > > > > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > Service. > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 6308|6220|2004-12-03 22:23:14|brentswain38|Re: Composting toilets|The latest edition of DIY Boatowner has a great article on the Airhead composting toilet Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "jim_both" wrote: > > Their website is: > > http://www.airheadtoilet.com/Air_Headx.html > > Although the website mentions "a urine diversion design", I could not > find any mention of the stainless tray you mention. Does this work > for both men and women using it in the standard ways, or do you need > to re-learn potty training? > > Jim > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Gary H. Lucas" > wrote: > > I spent quite a lot of time at a boat show looking at the Air Head > and > > talking to the guy who designed it. It's cleverly done. the > housing is in > > two parts done in rotational molded polyethylene. It has three main > > features. First is a very small low power ventilation fan that > pulls in a > > small amount of air around the underside of the seat and exhausts > it out > > side the boat. The fan is essentially just one of those solar > powered vents > > with a hose on it. > > > > Second is that it has a stainless tray under the seat at the front > designed > > to catch all the urine and direct it into a one gallon jug. He > claims that > > putting a little sugar in the jug will keep it from developing a > smell. > > Sounds about right, we add sugar to the anoxic tank to feed the > bugs on the > > waste treatment systems at work. The purpose of redirecting the > urine is > > that urine stops the composting action, unless you have a very > large volume. > > I believe he has a patent on this idea. > > > > Third is that there is a stainless rod passing through the side of > the > > collection tank bent in a zig zag inside to turn over the compost. > You give > > it a couple of turns when you use the toilet, and maybe a couple of > times > > more each day. > > > > My thoughts are that this would be really simple to do in a home > built boat. > > Just build a shelf to hold the toilet seat on top and a stainless > catch pan > > to catch the urine under the front edge. You need enough space > under the > > shelf for a common 5 gallon poly bucket and a one gallon jug. > Drill a 1/4" > > hole clear through the bucket and bend up the zigzag rod in such a > way you > > can poke it through one side at an angle and then back through the > other > > side. Use shaft collars to keep it centered and weld an ell onto > one shaft > > collar to make a crank handle. Keep a couple of spare buckets if > needed. > > You can seal them up tight with the lids that are sold everywhere. > > > > My Hi Tech option, self agitation. Buy a 1/4" cam clutch that has > the built > > in needle bearings ( about 15 dollars) and make a stainless hub > with a > > pendulum weight on the end. As the boat rocks the pendulum swings > back and > > forth and the cam clutch keeps the round rotating round and round > in the > > same direction. If things get to rough just tie it off. > > > > Gary H. Lucas > > > > | 6309|6309|2004-12-05 12:17:13|tomjlee2000|Amigos-- Pacific Play'|Try: "KIS"| 6310|6224|2004-12-05 12:47:47|Sugar|Re: Women|Hi Brent-I'm glad you did what you wanted to do without waiting for anyone. I do the same. Life is too short. No one should just sit and wait. I love sharing what I love to do. But at the same time, it's always the person I invite to share my time with to choose whether they want to share in what I do or not. If they choose not to, then I do it without them. And I have found that I still have a good time and enjoy everything I do. I'm sure you have discovered there are lots of interesting people you meet along the way. I find good conversation and new friends everywhere I go. Congrats to you Brent on finding yourself and doing what you love to do with or without someone. Sugar -- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "brentswain38" wrote: > > All thru my hormonal twenties and thirties I met all knds of women > who claimed to have an interest in cruising.Some practically begged > me to take them sailing. When invited ,95 % of them never showed up. > I tried something less threatening like inviting them to meet me > for coffee. Still they never showed up. When the excuses got down > to " I couldn't make it by noon saturday because I like to sleep in > on saturdays." I gave up. Most singlehanders I've talked to have had > the same experiences. > Now when the claim to be interested in sailing, I'm disinclined to > believe them. Thank god the need to have a woman in my life has > passed . The freedom is wonderful. > Make room for a woman aboard and when you are ready to go, leave > with or without a crew. If I'd waited for a cruising crew I'd have > done very little sailing over the last 30 years.Thank god I never let > it stop me from going. > Brent Swain > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Michael Casling > wrote: > > I met plenty of girls that liked to go sailing but only one ever > offered to help paint the bottom. > > Michael > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Sugar > > To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Tuesday, November 30, 2004 10:57 AM > > Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Women > > > > > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "James Douglas" > > wrote: > > > > > > I have always noticed that the pussy cats always turn up around > a > > > guy that's having a good time of life. Chances are if your > single > > > now you'll probably have all the attention you need after > you've > > > launched and started sailing. If you meet one before that time > > > who'll pitch in and help... well you've got a trooper on your > hands > > > and your probably made for life....honestly. > > > > > > So I'm saving myself for that day....see next post. > > > > > > Jim douglas > > > > > > Very true Jim. Too bad that some women end up with men that don't > > acknowledge that or can't see that or just take those facts for > > granted. There are some of us around that are just as interested > in > > boats, the ocean, and traveling as you men. We love working with > are > > hands fixing, building and making things work just as much as > men, and > > will always pitch in and help with the work at hand. And in the > end, > > we too feel good inside looking back, knowing that we helped in > making > > that dream come true and we too enjoy the fun side just as much as > > you. Unfortuantely there are some men that have too much pride to > > acknowledge how great it really is to be able to share their > interests > > with someone they have everything in common with. Someone that > will > > be there thru the thick and thin of life. Some men are afraid to > say > > how they feel, afraid that maybe, just maybe, the grass is greener > > somewhere besides home. So...they let the perfect woman slip > away. > > Hold on to your positive thoughts. There are women like me out > there > > that would go anywhere, do anything for the man we truly love. > And we > > will always enjoy every moment we share with that special man. And > > yes, we will always "pitch in and help". Even the work is FUN > when > > you share it with someone you care about. > > SeerAtlasAngel > > > > > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats- > unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > ADVERTISEMENT > > > > > > > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---------- > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > a.. To visit your group on the web, go to: > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/ > > > > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > Service. > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 6311|6245|2004-12-05 22:52:10|Alex Christie|Re: opening PortLights|I'm inclined now to agree with Brent; I just re-watched the movie "The Perfect Storm" again, and those scenes with the fishing boat having its pilot house windows blasted by rogue waves overwhelming the vessel (the windows were smashed by the flying stabiliizers) just made me shudder. Would plastic portlights survive the same weather? My portlights will be non-opening, as per advice in the book. Alex d by monster waves On 3-Dec-04, at 7:07 PM, brentswain38 wrote: > > > > > Check the size and strength of the hinges . They are usually the > weak point. I've never seen strong enough ones on plastic ports, I > don't believe it's possible to make plastic hinges strong enough.It > only takes once to accidently leave your ports open when a surprise > squall hits and puts them underwater.Then your in real trouble. > Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Alex Christie > wrote: | 6312|6224|2004-12-06 06:41:22|James Douglas|Re: Women; To seeratlasangel|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Sugar" wrote: > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "James Douglas" > wrote: > > > > I have always noticed that the pussy cats always turn up around a > > guy that's having a good time of life. Chances are if your single > > now you'll probably have all the attention you need after you've > > launched and started sailing. If you meet one before that time > > who'll pitch in and help... well you've got a trooper on your hands > > and your probably made for life....honestly. > > > > So I'm saving myself for that day....see next post. > > > > Jim douglas > I would not call myself a wiseman but even a donkey's ass, even this one, gets a shot off near the mark once in a while...Hmmmm....That was quite a lot of response from everyone, Eh? Dreams and the need for life's fulfillment are close to all, if not a universal vector or truth of sorts. I spent a lot of my life making the usual responsible choices or "positive compromises" in favour of: advancing my eduation, having a family, wife and children, for career but not really ever for self; well yes they were but they weren't the stuff my heart was about, as my feet were more concerned about getting to Australia or equaly far flung places, with foreign sounding names, the more unprounceable the better. O.K. now, I'm hearing violins!! I have dreamed of having a boat and sailing through all of that...and now at 55 shortly to be 56, I have decided enough is enough, you know, it's time to get on with realization. So I arranged to buy this steel hull and deck cutter designed by John Simpson as it was inexpensive, available, and with modifications would make a capable offshore cruiser. If one of Brent's hulls had been available on similar terms I would undoubtedly opted for that instead and may even do so yet... But through this group and our common interest...sailing on the cheap, anywhere, securely, in steel, fashioned and equiped by your own hands....all can share a camaraderie and a fellowship which offers the possibly of enduring friendships or even.........? (nothing improper implied) Anyway you and Courtney are in my opinion are just very uncommon females and yes it is heartening to know that there are a few of you out there, a very precious few mind you, that aspire to the same ideals...this is just awesome...Hey I'll paint your boat (tides and other immutables aside.) But If I get to fire one more shot(donkey's ass and all), that is before I get the hook, it is just this: I think most of us who follow this group are in fact probably more than a little counter culturalists...Those whom go willing against commonly accepted wisdom....HMMMMMMM....What, against the tide of public opinion???Can real people do that?? Oh Pooh, and damned my whiskers, sign me up!!! That's all for now. Jimbo You Know where! > Very true Jim. Too bad that some women end up with men that don't > acknowledge that or can't see that or just take those facts for > granted. There are some of us around that are just as interested in > boats, the ocean, and traveling as you men. We love working with are > hands fixing, building and making things work just as much as men, and > will always pitch in and help with the work at hand. And in the end, > we too feel good inside looking back, knowing that we helped in making > that dream come true and we too enjoy the fun side just as much as > you. Unfortuantely there are some men that have too much pride to > acknowledge how great it really is to be able to share their interests > with someone they have everything in common with. Someone that will > be there thru the thick and thin of life. Some men are afraid to say > how they feel, afraid that maybe, just maybe, the grass is greener > somewhere besides home. So...they let the perfect woman slip away. > Hold on to your positive thoughts. There are women like me out there > that would go anywhere, do anything for the man we truly love. And we > will always enjoy every moment we share with that special man. And > yes, we will always "pitch in and help". Even the work is FUN when > you share it with someone you care about. > SeerAtlasAngel | 6313|6313|2004-12-06 10:12:57|Puck III|Re : Women|This guy does not look complaining : a good read and fine pics http://caribescape.info/finding/finding.htm I found a fine requirements list for a boat who is gone make the that list for women exotic or not ?? even a secure huricane hole chart to remember! Old Ben :-)| 6314|6313|2004-12-07 04:42:39|seeratlas|Re: Re : Women/Opening Ports /Trawlers|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III" wrote: > > This guy does not look complaining : a good read and fine pics > http://caribescape.info/finding/finding.htm > I found a fine requirements list for a boat > who is gone make the that list for women > exotic or not ?? even a secure huricane hole chart to remember! > Old Ben :-) Looks like he has more to worry about than whether he has opening ports or not doesn't it ? heheheh. True Story, my mother and stepfather were recently on a cruise in the Med, in a mega cruiseship. A true Rogue wave appeared out of nowhere and stove in the windows of a slew of staterooms two decks above theirs, sucking pretty much everything lose in the rooms back out the broken in 'scenic windows' thru which it entered. Not clear exactly but I think this was some 50 to 60 feet from the waterline. Ok, now on opening ports, I will agree with Brent that most of the plastic ones don't pass strength muster, but I have seen a bunch of metal ones that when dogged down were only fractionally less strong than sealed ports. The wave is unlikely to break the metal frame, more likely to punch in the glass/plexiglass, etc. Since the glass/plexiglass is the same in both the opening and fixxed ports, well, I think we have a non issue..which brings us back to Brent's original complaint, that they leak. As I have pointed out, they can be made not to leak, I've done it-no theory here but empirical data. So, to each their own :) Brent spends all of his time on the hook, his boat will thus lie more often than not, head (or tail) to the wind so the open hatch at either end solves his vent problems. I'm at some point going to the european canals where you are tied up to suit the orientation of the canal, not the wind. I also spend some time at marina's for various reasons, again, NOT always oriented to the fore and aft wind. Opening ports work for me, they're on my design list. Now, to open up another can of worms..:) heheh one good place for sealed ports is on the topsides at the head of your bunks:) It's amazing how a little 'window' to the world from the bunk opens up one's world. The psychological effect can be dramatic, the installation itself, can be problematic. Lastly, on trawlers. If someone is considering that route, go ride a few. My father once decided to go out with a salmon fisherman for a day trip. When he got back he was down for the count for several days recovering, on the 54' Falcon. The motion was so bad for him that jus t the 'flashbacks' from trying to describe that day would render him ill LOL. The sea motion of the Falcon in comparison was like sitting in a LazyBoy with your feet up and a good game on the tube. I notice a lot of interest lately in George Buehlers "Diesel Duck" trawlers. One of the first modifications required is to relocate the engine room vents as the boats spend so much time on their beam ends you can flood the boat through the vents high up on the top sides...different boats for different folks. Given the current ease of installing rollerfurling divided rigs, electric or hydraulic winches, etc. the validity of 'compelled to trawler' argument seems questionable. For instance I could modify my own rig to a staysail schooner design in which every sail on the standing rig would be rollerfurled, and the main and fore, even roller reefed. Doesn't get much simpler than that. I think the REAL attraction of the trawler is the huge increase in "living space' for a given length of a cabintop trawler over the std. sailing hull. This certainly works at the dock or at harbor, but you sure give up a bunch in terms of deep blue long passage peace of mind...all boats are compromises, and the one I'm working on is no exception, but I have tried to break up a substantial sail area into easily manageable parts, dramatically increase interior visibility/livability without having a six foot tall deckhouse with "windows more appropriate to a motorhome than a motorsailer. For your writer who is island hopping and as he states, "only goes out in favorable weather" that boat of his works well. For someone crossing oceans where once you are 'out there' you are REALLY stuck 'out there' and there are no safe hurricane holes you can duck into when sudden bad weather looms, I think a different choice is advisable. seer| 6315|6224|2004-12-07 10:21:03|Sugar|Re: Women; To seeratlasangel|Hi Jim, Yep, you did you good on the subject. I rarely post on this site because not many women put their 2 cents in. But you brought up a subject that I just couldn't help but respond. :) I try to read this site daily. Lots of good info here, good group of people and interesting conversation. And on your last posts I guess most of us have done the same. I rearranged all my goals, my entire life when I was young and first fell in love. I got married, quit school, got a job - so we could buy a house, 3 years later started having kids, and well, there you have it. The norm for so many people. Anyway I too did all the "practicle" things. Until 5 years ago. My dad (who was my best friend and taught me all I know) died, my daughter was critically ill, and I HAD a husband that loved to be miserable and scream a lot, and I came close to death myself. The kids were now grown and when it was all said and done, I started a new life. I view life different now. I used to work 10-16 hours a day, 6-7 days a week. I have discovered that there isn't any amount of money that can replace TIME. And now I prefer to go outside, smell the air and live than to spend my life working so many hours. I'm almost your age. Now I make time for me. The things I love, boating, kayaking, dancing, singing, horseback riding, walks, 4 wheeling, the ocean (I was born and raised in California and spent every available moment at the beach). And like I said before I do like working with my hands. For those of you guys that still believe that girls don't really do work with tools, well, my dad and I built an RV/mobile home park a few years ago. My dad and I put in over 3000 feet of lateral sewer lines, did all the electrical lines, water lines, replaced floors, built decks, etc. Shoot I'm even pretty good at figuring out what's wrong with heaters, air conditioners and refrigerators. LOL But when I was a young girl, girls didn't have a choice to learn or do those kind of things. We were told we had to work in a resturant, be a nurse or have office skills. (ok so I type 75 words per min). Doesn't mean I like doing the normal girl jobs - it was just a necessity at the time to survive in yesterdays world. But today...girls are lucky. They can be anything they want to be. Lucky them. :) And as far as steel hulls, Brent has me sold. And he has some of the most unique, creative, cheap ideas I've ever heard and they work. LOL WAY COOL ! Anyway I just wanted to say thanks Jim for letting me speak out. I haven't done that for a while :) Oh one more thing. Thanks for the complement to me and Courtney. I think that maybe the reason I'm different is because of my family life. I have a very close family. I was raised with 3 brothers. And I was lucky in the fact that my father raised me equal to my brothers. I don't think many dads do that. My dad gave me my first mini bike at age 5. A yamaha 80 for Chirstmas at age 9, taught me how to shoot a gun, fish, shoot a bow. Oh and did I meantion that The Rule was "if you're going to ride a bike (motorocycle) you have to know when the plugs, jets, etc need changed and how to fix it. We couldn't ride without a helmet, elbow pads, steel-toed boots, and it was a must to know how to fix our own motorcycle and cars. Those were The Rules. LOL Ahhh, isn't life GREAT. :) SeerAtlasAngel --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "James Douglas" wrote: > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Sugar" > wrote: > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "James Douglas" > > wrote: > > > > > > I have always noticed that the pussy cats always turn up around > a > > > guy that's having a good time of life. Chances are if your > single > > > now you'll probably have all the attention you need after you've > > > launched and started sailing. If you meet one before that time > > > who'll pitch in and help... well you've got a trooper on your > hands > > > and your probably made for life....honestly. > > > > > > So I'm saving myself for that day....see next post. > > > > > > Jim douglas > > > I would not call myself a wiseman but even a donkey's ass, even this > one, gets a shot off near the mark once in a while...Hmmmm....That > was quite a lot of response from everyone, Eh? Dreams and the need > for life's fulfillment are close to all, if not a universal vector > or truth of sorts. > > I spent a lot of my life making the usual responsible choices > or "positive compromises" in favour of: advancing my eduation, > having a family, wife and children, for career but not really ever > for self; well yes they were but they weren't the stuff my heart was > about, as my feet were more concerned about getting to Australia or > equaly far flung places, with foreign sounding names, the more > unprounceable the better. O.K. now, I'm hearing violins!! > > I have dreamed of having a boat and sailing through all of > that...and now at 55 shortly to be 56, I have decided enough is > enough, you know, it's time to get on with realization. So I > arranged to buy this steel hull and deck cutter designed by John > Simpson as it was inexpensive, available, and with modifications > would make a capable offshore cruiser. If one of Brent's hulls had > been available on similar terms I would undoubtedly opted for that > instead and may even do so yet... > > But through this group and our common interest...sailing on the > cheap, anywhere, securely, in steel, fashioned and equiped by your > own hands....all can share a camaraderie and a fellowship which > offers the possibly of enduring friendships or even.........? > (nothing improper implied) > > Anyway you and Courtney are in my opinion are just very uncommon > females and yes it is heartening to know that there are a few of you > out there, a very precious few mind you, that aspire to the same > ideals...this is just awesome...Hey I'll paint your boat (tides and > other immutables aside.) > > But If I get to fire one more shot(donkey's ass and all), that is > before I get the hook, it is just this: I think most of us who > follow this group are in fact probably more than a little counter > culturalists...Those whom go willing against commonly accepted > wisdom....HMMMMMMM....What, against the tide of public opinion???Can > real people do that?? > > Oh Pooh, and damned my whiskers, sign me up!!! > > That's all for now. > > Jimbo > You Know where! > > > Very true Jim. Too bad that some women end up with men that don't > > acknowledge that or can't see that or just take those facts for > > granted. There are some of us around that are just as interested > in > > boats, the ocean, and traveling as you men. We love working with > are > > hands fixing, building and making things work just as much as men, > and > > will always pitch in and help with the work at hand. And in the > end, > > we too feel good inside looking back, knowing that we helped in > making > > that dream come true and we too enjoy the fun side just as much as > > you. Unfortuantely there are some men that have too much pride to > > acknowledge how great it really is to be able to share their > interests > > with someone they have everything in common with. Someone that > will > > be there thru the thick and thin of life. Some men are afraid to > say > > how they feel, afraid that maybe, just maybe, the grass is greener > > somewhere besides home. So...they let the perfect woman slip > away. > > Hold on to your positive thoughts. There are women like me out > there > > that would go anywhere, do anything for the man we truly love. > And we > > will always enjoy every moment we share with that special man. And > > yes, we will always "pitch in and help". Even the work is FUN when > > you share it with someone you care about. > > SeerAtlasAngel | 6316|6224|2004-12-07 17:19:37|fmichael graham|Re: Women; To seeratlasangel|Sugar (...or SeerAtlasAngel): Sorry, haven't figured out which is your prefered title, yet! Anyway, excellent post! I was at the local trade school recently, brushing off my old welding skills & adding a few more. There are two young women in the present "C" class(beginners) and I was chatting with one of them. Though not trying to be sexist, I asked her why she wanted to become a welder. Her deadpan response: "Because I've seen some of the welding you old farts have done & I knew I could do a much better job!" LOL Well, I've seen women in just about every trade I can think of & they can almost always "hold their own"(something I thought only men could do). They say that life begins at 40. I think that this is the (approx.) time at which many of us re-evaluate our priorities. Because most of us have generations preceding & succeeding us when we reach middle-age, it is a time when the joys & sorrows are more frequent, forcing us to give up navel-gazing & watch what is happening around us. I, too, have had "life challenges", both with my own health, and my immediate family. Though I would never have been accused of being a workaholic - in my first 41 years of life - I have planned out the remainder of my life where enjoyment & contentment are of the first priority. When in my Wife's native country, The Philippines, I witnessed a higher quality of life than in Canada, though not as high a standard of living. Yet, I find arenas, such as these groups, where one can learn new things in a mostly relaxing & positive environment. So, I hope to read more posts from you in the future. Bob Dylan described a successful man as one who gets up in the morning, goes to bed at night, and, in between, does what he wants to do. I like that philosophy and believe that it applies equally to women. Now, we'd better get back to boatbuilding and, whilst so engaged, plan our escape! Best wishes, Mike Sugar wrote: Hi Jim, Yep, you did you good on the subject. I rarely post on this site because not many women put their 2 cents in. But you brought up a subject that I just couldn't help but respond. :) I try to read this site daily. Lots of good info here, good group of people and interesting conversation. And on your last posts I guess most of us have done the same. I rearranged all my goals, my entire life when I was young and first fell in love. I got married, quit school, got a job - so we could buy a house, 3 years later started having kids, and well, there you have it. The norm for so many people. Anyway I too did all the "practicle" things. Until 5 years ago. My dad (who was my best friend and taught me all I know) died, my daughter was critically ill, and I HAD a husband that loved to be miserable and scream a lot, and I came close to death myself. The kids were now grown and when it was all said and done, I started a new life. I view life different now. I used to work 10-16 hours a day, 6-7 days a week. I have discovered that there isn't any amount of money that can replace TIME. And now I prefer to go outside, smell the air and live than to spend my life working so many hours. I'm almost your age. Now I make time for me. The things I love, boating, kayaking, dancing, singing, horseback riding, walks, 4 wheeling, the ocean (I was born and raised in California and spent every available moment at the beach). And like I said before I do like working with my hands. For those of you guys that still believe that girls don't really do work with tools, well, my dad and I built an RV/mobile home park a few years ago. My dad and I put in over 3000 feet of lateral sewer lines, did all the electrical lines, water lines, replaced floors, built decks, etc. Shoot I'm even pretty good at figuring out what's wrong with heaters, air conditioners and refrigerators. LOL But when I was a young girl, girls didn't have a choice to learn or do those kind of things. We were told we had to work in a resturant, be a nurse or have office skills. (ok so I type 75 words per min). Doesn't mean I like doing the normal girl jobs - it was just a necessity at the time to survive in yesterdays world. But today...girls are lucky. They can be anything they want to be. Lucky them. :) And as far as steel hulls, Brent has me sold. And he has some of the most unique, creative, cheap ideas I've ever heard and they work. LOL WAY COOL ! Anyway I just wanted to say thanks Jim for letting me speak out. I haven't done that for a while :) Oh one more thing. Thanks for the complement to me and Courtney. I think that maybe the reason I'm different is because of my family life. I have a very close family. I was raised with 3 brothers. And I was lucky in the fact that my father raised me equal to my brothers. I don't think many dads do that. My dad gave me my first mini bike at age 5. A yamaha 80 for Chirstmas at age 9, taught me how to shoot a gun, fish, shoot a bow. Oh and did I meantion that The Rule was "if you're going to ride a bike (motorocycle) you have to know when the plugs, jets, etc need changed and how to fix it. We couldn't ride without a helmet, elbow pads, steel-toed boots, and it was a must to know how to fix our own motorcycle and cars. Those were The Rules. LOL Ahhh, isn't life GREAT. :) SeerAtlasAngel --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "James Douglas" wrote: > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Sugar" > wrote: > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "James Douglas" > > wrote: > > > > > > I have always noticed that the pussy cats always turn up around > a > > > guy that's having a good time of life. Chances are if your > single > > > now you'll probably have all the attention you need after you've > > > launched and started sailing. If you meet one before that time > > > who'll pitch in and help... well you've got a trooper on your > hands > > > and your probably made for life....honestly. > > > > > > So I'm saving myself for that day....see next post. > > > > > > Jim douglas > > > I would not call myself a wiseman but even a donkey's ass, even this > one, gets a shot off near the mark once in a while...Hmmmm....That > was quite a lot of response from everyone, Eh? Dreams and the need > for life's fulfillment are close to all, if not a universal vector > or truth of sorts. > > I spent a lot of my life making the usual responsible choices > or "positive compromises" in favour of: advancing my eduation, > having a family, wife and children, for career but not really ever > for self; well yes they were but they weren't the stuff my heart was > about, as my feet were more concerned about getting to Australia or > equaly far flung places, with foreign sounding names, the more > unprounceable the better. O.K. now, I'm hearing violins!! > > I have dreamed of having a boat and sailing through all of > that...and now at 55 shortly to be 56, I have decided enough is > enough, you know, it's time to get on with realization. So I > arranged to buy this steel hull and deck cutter designed by John > Simpson as it was inexpensive, available, and with modifications > would make a capable offshore cruiser. If one of Brent's hulls had > been available on similar terms I would undoubtedly opted for that > instead and may even do so yet... > > But through this group and our common interest...sailing on the > cheap, anywhere, securely, in steel, fashioned and equiped by your > own hands....all can share a camaraderie and a fellowship which > offers the possibly of enduring friendships or even.........? > (nothing improper implied) > > Anyway you and Courtney are in my opinion are just very uncommon > females and yes it is heartening to know that there are a few of you > out there, a very precious few mind you, that aspire to the same > ideals...this is just awesome...Hey I'll paint your boat (tides and > other immutables aside.) > > But If I get to fire one more shot(donkey's ass and all), that is > before I get the hook, it is just this: I think most of us who > follow this group are in fact probably more than a little counter > culturalists...Those whom go willing against commonly accepted > wisdom....HMMMMMMM....What, against the tide of public opinion???Can > real people do that?? > > Oh Pooh, and damned my whiskers, sign me up!!! > > That's all for now. > > Jimbo > You Know where! > > > Very true Jim. Too bad that some women end up with men that don't > > acknowledge that or can't see that or just take those facts for > > granted. There are some of us around that are just as interested > in > > boats, the ocean, and traveling as you men. We love working with > are > > hands fixing, building and making things work just as much as men, > and > > will always pitch in and help with the work at hand. And in the > end, > > we too feel good inside looking back, knowing that we helped in > making > > that dream come true and we too enjoy the fun side just as much as > > you. Unfortuantely there are some men that have too much pride to > > acknowledge how great it really is to be able to share their > interests > > with someone they have everything in common with. Someone that > will > > be there thru the thick and thin of life. Some men are afraid to > say > > how they feel, afraid that maybe, just maybe, the grass is greener > > somewhere besides home. So...they let the perfect woman slip > away. > > Hold on to your positive thoughts. There are women like me out > there > > that would go anywhere, do anything for the man we truly love. > And we > > will always enjoy every moment we share with that special man. And > > yes, we will always "pitch in and help". Even the work is FUN when > > you share it with someone you care about. > > SeerAtlasAngel To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT --------------------------------- Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - 250MB free storage. Do more. Manage less. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]| 6317|6313|2004-12-07 18:38:11|brentswain38|Re: Re : Women/Opening Ports /Trawlers|The risk of opening ports off the centreline is the risk of accidentally leaving them open when an unexpected squaul hits on an otherwisw calm day and puts them underwater.This is a mistake anyone can make. Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "seeratlas" wrote: > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III" wrote: > > > > This guy does not look complaining : a good read and fine pics > > http://caribescape.info/finding/finding.htm > > I found a fine requirements list for a boat > > who is gone make the that list for women > > exotic or not ?? even a secure huricane hole chart to remember! > > Old Ben :-) > > Looks like he has more to worry about than whether he has opening > ports or not doesn't it ? heheheh. True Story, my mother and > stepfather were recently on a cruise in the Med, in a mega cruiseship. > A true Rogue wave > appeared out of nowhere and stove in the windows of a slew of > staterooms two decks above theirs, sucking pretty much everything > lose in the rooms back out the broken in 'scenic windows' thru which > it entered. Not clear exactly but I think this was some 50 to 60 feet > from the waterline. > > Ok, now on opening ports, I will agree with Brent that most of the > plastic ones don't pass strength muster, but I have seen a bunch of > metal ones that when dogged down were only fractionally less strong > than sealed ports. The wave is unlikely to break the metal frame, more > likely to punch in the glass/plexiglass, etc. Since the > glass/plexiglass is the same in both the opening and fixxed ports, > well, I think we have a non issue..which brings us back to Brent's > original complaint, that they leak. As I have pointed out, they can > be made not to leak, I've done it-no theory here but empirical data. > So, to each their own :) Brent spends all of his time on the hook, his > boat will thus lie more often than not, head (or tail) to the wind so > the open hatch at either end solves his vent problems. > > I'm at some point going to the european canals where you are tied up > to suit the orientation of the canal, not the wind. I also spend some > time at marina's for various reasons, again, NOT always oriented to > the fore and aft wind. Opening ports work for me, they're on my design > list. > > Now, to open up another can of worms..:) heheh one good place for > sealed ports is on the topsides at the head of your bunks:) It's > amazing how a little 'window' to the world from the bunk opens up > one's world. The psychological effect can be dramatic, the > installation itself, can be problematic. > > Lastly, on trawlers. If someone is considering that route, go ride a > few. My father once decided to go out with a salmon fisherman for a > day trip. When he got back he was down for the count for several days > recovering, on the 54' Falcon. The motion was so bad for him that jus > t the 'flashbacks' from trying to describe that day would render him > ill LOL. The sea motion of the Falcon in comparison was like sitting > in a LazyBoy with your feet up and a good game on the tube. I notice > a lot of interest lately in George Buehlers "Diesel Duck" trawlers. > One of the first modifications required is to relocate the engine room > vents as the boats spend so much time on their beam ends you can flood > the boat through the vents high up on the top sides...different boats > for different folks. Given the current ease of installing > rollerfurling divided rigs, electric or hydraulic winches, etc. the > validity of 'compelled to trawler' argument seems questionable. For > instance I could modify my own rig to a staysail schooner design in > which every sail on the standing rig would be rollerfurled, and the > main and fore, even roller reefed. Doesn't get much simpler than that. > I think the REAL attraction of the trawler is the huge increase in > "living space' for a given length of a cabintop trawler over the std. > sailing hull. This certainly works at the dock or at harbor, but you > sure give up a bunch in terms of deep blue long passage peace of > mind...all boats are compromises, and the one I'm working on is no > exception, but I have tried to break up a substantial sail area into > easily manageable parts, dramatically increase interior > visibility/livability without having a six foot tall deckhouse with > "windows > more appropriate to a motorhome than a motorsailer. For your writer > who is island hopping and as he states, "only goes out in favorable > weather" that boat of his works well. For someone crossing oceans > where once you are 'out there' you are REALLY stuck 'out there' and > there are no safe hurricane holes you can duck into when sudden bad > weather looms, I think a different choice is advisable. > > seer | 6318|6224|2004-12-07 18:42:46|brentswain38|Re: Women; To seeratlasangel|It's impssible to have a good time when you are with someone who isn't , both on land and sea.Pleasure boating is what it's supposed to be all about. Keep your crew involved and happy and you'll accomplish what its all about, enjoyment. I found the tropics sometimes quite boring without the projects. Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Sugar" wrote: > > Hi Jim, Yep, you did you good on the subject. I rarely post on this > site because not many women put their 2 cents in. But you brought up > a subject that I just couldn't help but respond. :) I try to read > this site daily. Lots of good info here, good group of people and > interesting conversation. And on your last posts I guess most of us > have done the same. I rearranged all my goals, my entire life when I > was young and first fell in love. I got married, quit school, got a > job - so we could buy a house, 3 years later started having kids, and > well, there you have it. The norm for so many people. Anyway I too > did all the "practicle" things. Until 5 years ago. My dad (who was > my best friend and taught me all I know) died, my daughter was > critically ill, and I HAD a husband that loved to be miserable and > scream a lot, and I came close to death myself. The kids were now > grown and when it was all said and done, I started a new life. I view > life different now. I used to work 10-16 hours a day, 6-7 days a > week. I have discovered that there isn't any amount of money that can > replace TIME. And now I prefer to go outside, smell the air and live > than to spend my life working so many hours. I'm almost your age. > Now I make time for me. The things I love, boating, kayaking, > dancing, singing, horseback riding, walks, 4 wheeling, the ocean (I > was born and raised in California and spent every available moment at > the beach). And like I said before I do like working with my hands. > For those of you guys that still believe that girls don't really do > work with tools, well, my dad and I built an RV/mobile home park a few > years ago. My dad and I put in over 3000 feet of lateral sewer lines, > did all the electrical lines, water lines, replaced floors, built > decks, etc. Shoot I'm even pretty good at figuring out what's wrong > with heaters, air conditioners and refrigerators. LOL But when I was > a young girl, girls didn't have a choice to learn or do those kind of > things. We were told we had to work in a resturant, be a nurse or > have office skills. (ok so I type 75 words per min). Doesn't mean I > like doing the normal girl jobs - it was just a necessity at the time > to survive in yesterdays world. But today...girls are lucky. They > can be anything they want to be. Lucky them. :) And as far as steel > hulls, Brent has me sold. And he has some of the most unique, > creative, cheap ideas I've ever heard and they work. LOL WAY COOL ! > Anyway I just wanted to say thanks Jim for letting me speak out. I > haven't done that for a while :) Oh one more thing. Thanks for the > complement to me and Courtney. I think that maybe the reason I'm > different is because of my family life. I have a very close family. > I was raised with 3 brothers. And I was lucky in the fact that my > father raised me equal to my brothers. I don't think many dads do > that. My dad gave me my first mini bike at age 5. A yamaha 80 for > Chirstmas at age 9, taught me how to shoot a gun, fish, shoot a bow. > Oh and did I meantion that The Rule was "if you're going to ride a > bike (motorocycle) you have to know when the plugs, jets, etc need > changed and how to fix it. We couldn't ride without a helmet, elbow > pads, steel-toed boots, and it was a must to know how to fix our own > motorcycle and cars. Those were The Rules. LOL Ahhh, isn't life GREAT. > :) > SeerAtlasAngel > > > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "James Douglas" > wrote: > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Sugar" > > wrote: > > > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "James Douglas" > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > I have always noticed that the pussy cats always turn up around > > a > > > > guy that's having a good time of life. Chances are if your > > single > > > > now you'll probably have all the attention you need after you've > > > > launched and started sailing. If you meet one before that time > > > > who'll pitch in and help... well you've got a trooper on your > > hands > > > > and your probably made for life....honestly. > > > > > > > > So I'm saving myself for that day....see next post. > > > > > > > > Jim douglas > > > > > I would not call myself a wiseman but even a donkey's ass, even this > > one, gets a shot off near the mark once in a while...Hmmmm....That > > was quite a lot of response from everyone, Eh? Dreams and the need > > for life's fulfillment are close to all, if not a universal vector > > or truth of sorts. > > > > I spent a lot of my life making the usual responsible choices > > or "positive compromises" in favour of: advancing my eduation, > > having a family, wife and children, for career but not really ever > > for self; well yes they were but they weren't the stuff my heart was > > about, as my feet were more concerned about getting to Australia or > > equaly far flung places, with foreign sounding names, the more > > unprounceable the better. O.K. now, I'm hearing violins!! > > > > I have dreamed of having a boat and sailing through all of > > that...and now at 55 shortly to be 56, I have decided enough is > > enough, you know, it's time to get on with realization. So I > > arranged to buy this steel hull and deck cutter designed by John > > Simpson as it was inexpensive, available, and with modifications > > would make a capable offshore cruiser. If one of Brent's hulls had > > been available on similar terms I would undoubtedly opted for that > > instead and may even do so yet... > > > > But through this group and our common interest...sailing on the > > cheap, anywhere, securely, in steel, fashioned and equiped by your > > own hands....all can share a camaraderie and a fellowship which > > offers the possibly of enduring friendships or even.........? > > (nothing improper implied) > > > > Anyway you and Courtney are in my opinion are just very uncommon > > females and yes it is heartening to know that there are a few of you > > out there, a very precious few mind you, that aspire to the same > > ideals...this is just awesome...Hey I'll paint your boat (tides and > > other immutables aside.) > > > > But If I get to fire one more shot(donkey's ass and all), that is > > before I get the hook, it is just this: I think most of us who > > follow this group are in fact probably more than a little counter > > culturalists...Those whom go willing against commonly accepted > > wisdom....HMMMMMMM....What, against the tide of public opinion??? Can > > real people do that?? > > > > Oh Pooh, and damned my whiskers, sign me up!!! > > > > That's all for now. > > > > Jimbo > > You Know where! > > > > > Very true Jim. Too bad that some women end up with men that don't > > > acknowledge that or can't see that or just take those facts for > > > granted. There are some of us around that are just as interested > > in > > > boats, the ocean, and traveling as you men. We love working with > > are > > > hands fixing, building and making things work just as much as men, > > and > > > will always pitch in and help with the work at hand. And in the > > end, > > > we too feel good inside looking back, knowing that we helped in > > making > > > that dream come true and we too enjoy the fun side just as much as > > > you. Unfortuantely there are some men that have too much pride to > > > acknowledge how great it really is to be able to share their > > interests > > > with someone they have everything in common with. Someone that > > will > > > be there thru the thick and thin of life. Some men are afraid to > > say > > > how they feel, afraid that maybe, just maybe, the grass is greener > > > somewhere besides home. So...they let the perfect woman slip > > away. > > > Hold on to your positive thoughts. There are women like me out > > there > > > that would go anywhere, do anything for the man we truly love. > > And we > > > will always enjoy every moment we share with that special man. And > > > yes, we will always "pitch in and help". Even the work is FUN when > > > you share it with someone you care about. > > > SeerAtlasAngel | 6319|6319|2004-12-07 21:56:36|carlmbentley|ballast|how much lead do i need for a twin keel 36. i saw 4500 in the files section under materials but thought i saw 5700 somewhere else. also i recall something about trying to make it more heavy fore or aft by partitioning the keels, anyone know ? sorry for the stupid questions, just don't have timeto look it up and am hoping someone knows off the top of their head. lot of keels at the scrap yards down here in florida right now, hope to get a good price. -carl| 6320|6320|2004-12-07 22:28:30|carlmbentley|keel strength story|speaking of keels. although i hate to bring up an old topic, especially one that went on for soo long. but the old "how strong are the keels" arguement came to mind recently. during the hurricanes (i got hit by 2) my boat was still on blocks up forward and a cradle aft and i hadn't welded the keel webs in yet. anyway before the storms i threw all my scrap and such into the hull and crossed my fingers she wouldn't roll through the neighbors house. well she stayed put but all the water rushing down the sides of my hull washed the earth out from under the forward blocks and my boat fell nose first onto her keels. i figure it was about an 8 inch drop. i jacked her back out and then we got hit again, and she dove in again, this time the ground was so wet with all the rain still standing from the previous storm she kept going and buried herself about half a foot into the mud. i jacked her back out again and looked around, the keels pushed the plate around them up about an inch maybe. i welded a bit of pipe accross the hull inside at the chine for some strength and jacked em back down, then welded my webs in. there's still a little dimple there, maybe a 1/4 inch or so, doesn't bother me though, scars are sexy. i figure she weathered her first two hurricanes well :) -carl no need to re-debate any of this folks, just a funny story from a novice. you're supposed to laugh. p.s. if you're wondering why the keels were a foot off the ground in the first place it's because of the way i put my keels in. we had access to a crane (sure beats that jack) so we lifted the keels into the slots then lifted the whole boat so they dropped into place. while she was hanging there we built a cradle and set her down in it. cool pictures if i can find them. *wish i could type 75 wpm*| 6321|6313|2004-12-07 22:37:05|carlmbentley|Re: Re : /Opening Ports /|couldn't you just adjust a "wind scoop" to point into the wind from whatever direction it's coming ? -carl > I'm at some point going to the european canals where you are tied up > to suit the orientation of the canal, not the wind. I also spend some > time at marina's for various reasons, again, NOT always oriented to > the fore and aft wind. Opening ports work for me, they're on my design > list. | 6322|6320|2004-12-07 22:53:44|Sugar|Re: keel strength story|LOL Great story. It made me laugh. Hope you can post some pics. Sugar --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "carlmbentley" wrote: > > speaking of keels. although i hate to bring up an old topic, > especially one that went on for soo long. but the old "how strong are > the keels" arguement came to mind recently. during the hurricanes (i > got hit by 2) my boat was still on blocks up forward and a cradle aft > and i hadn't welded the keel webs in yet. anyway before the storms i > threw all my scrap and such into the hull and crossed my fingers she > wouldn't roll through the neighbors house. well she stayed put but > all the water rushing down the sides of my hull washed the earth out > from under the forward blocks and my boat fell nose first onto her > keels. i figure it was about an 8 inch drop. i jacked her back out > and then we got hit again, and she dove in again, this time the > ground was so wet with all the rain still standing from the previous > storm she kept going and buried herself about half a foot into the > mud. i jacked her back out again and looked around, the keels pushed > the plate around them up about an inch maybe. i welded a bit of pipe > accross the hull inside at the chine for some strength and jacked em > back down, then welded my webs in. there's still a little dimple > there, maybe a 1/4 inch or so, doesn't bother me though, scars are > sexy. i figure she weathered her first two hurricanes well :) > > -carl > > no need to re-debate any of this folks, just a funny story from a > novice. you're supposed to laugh. > > > p.s. if you're wondering why the keels were a foot off the ground in > the first place it's because of the way i put my keels in. we had > access to a crane (sure beats that jack) so we lifted the keels into > the slots then lifted the whole boat so they dropped into place. > while she was hanging there we built a cradle and set her down in it. > cool pictures if i can find them. > > *wish i could type 75 wpm* | 6323|6323|2004-12-08 06:29:18|Alfredo Nannetti|Dvd or vhf|On the home page of our yahoo group there is written about a video of the origami boat building process, made on dvd or vhf. Does anybody knows if it is ready? How can I get it? I already have the book but a video wuold help much more to anderstand evrything..... ciao alfredo| 6324|6313|2004-12-08 08:57:12|seeratlas|Re: Re : /Opening Ports /|Carl, Yep and I do, BUT, Windscoops can do a good job, and a bad job and I don't like having to 'mess' with things. I'm not the kind of sailor that spends every second eyes glued to the telltales trying to continually adjust the sails for maximum efficiency. I tend to set them and leave them alone till conditions change. Same thing with a scoop. They can be a pain to fool with. :) Having spent a lot of time in the galley (I'm a loner) having an opening port over the stove is a 'good thing'. Nothing quite like having an opening port forward of and another directly abeam the inside helm station. Cross ventilation from opposing ports are nice. In the cockpit, it's nice to have a port or two opening into the aft cabin, for a variety of reasons: light, air, instant communication, and I also plan on having one opening directly from the galley to the cockpit so that coffee, sandwiches, a good 'rusty nail' (hehehe) can be passed out directly even if the main hatch is dogged down. One of the things that appeals to me most about this Cherubini port (for lack of a better name) is that I can quickly and easily substitute in metal plate ports for total vessel security, mesh for buggy locations, security glass, mirrored or even tinted. The flexibility is appealing. As Brent has reiterated, the real danger is forgetting and leaving them open in a seaway. Now, though I'm not currently active, I am a pilot. Once you get used to having a 'checklist' to go thru before 'departure', it becomes second nature to go round and secure the ports before heading out. For me the utility of having them able to open when I want them open is worth the discipline to make sure they're shut when I want them shut. I have an unfortuate character trait developed in the military many many many years ago, to never place my life in anyone else's hands, even then I 'worked' alone. I tend to bet 'against' people doing the right thing which is, as you might suspect, a rather depressing way of living. On the other hand, as a direct result, I am still alive, in full operating condition and many I have known are not. This all means that I find that others almost never 'disappoint' me, though on rare occasions I can still be most pleasantly surprised which in the end, makes it all work out. By and large I am content and in weighing the pros and cons, for me I'll go with the opening ports. Of course your mileage may vary :) seer --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "carlmbentley" wrote: > > couldn't you just adjust a "wind scoop" to point into the wind from > whatever direction it's coming ? > > -carl \| 6325|6323|2004-12-08 09:02:58|seeratlas|Re: Dvd or vhf|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Alfredo Nannetti" wrote: > On the home page of our yahoo group there is written about a video > of the origami boat building process, made on dvd or vhf. > Does anybody knows if it is ready? How can I get it? > I already have the book but a video wuold help much more to > anderstand evrything..... > ciao > > alfredo Ciao Alfredo, I recently talked to Alex about this and if I understood him correctly, he told me that most of the 'filming' is done and voluminous. He was trying to decide how much of the construction to include i.e. whether to go all the way thru completion of the boat and how much of the video should be included as he has substantially more than the usual 45 minute "how to" type film you normally see. We'll no doubt hear from him in response to your post and see where he is currently. While I've got your attention, what part of Italy are you from and where do you live now? Ho studiato al Universidad di Firenze :) seer| 6326|6323|2004-12-08 11:41:29|fmichael graham|Re: Dvd or vhf|Alex/Brent: I suggest that you put together two videos: 1) A promotional video which highlights the construction method without giving away the details of construction. This would allow those interested in the concept to get a better idea of how a "Swain" comes together, without too much techno-babble. 2) A detailed construction video series - leaving nothing out - which could be supplied with the construction plans. Personally, I would find the extra couple of hundred $ for this series to be well worth the money & much cheaper than having Brent fly out to the Philippines when I start construction there. Just a thought, Mike seeratlas wrote: --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Alfredo Nannetti" wrote: > On the home page of our yahoo group there is written about a video > of the origami boat building process, made on dvd or vhf. > Does anybody knows if it is ready? How can I get it? > I already have the book but a video wuold help much more to > anderstand evrything..... > ciao > > alfredo Ciao Alfredo, I recently talked to Alex about this and if I understood him correctly, he told me that most of the 'filming' is done and voluminous. He was trying to decide how much of the construction to include i.e. whether to go all the way thru completion of the boat and how much of the video should be included as he has substantially more than the usual 45 minute "how to" type film you normally see. We'll no doubt hear from him in response to your post and see where he is currently. While I've got your attention, what part of Italy are you from and where do you live now? Ho studiato al Universidad di Firenze :) seer To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor Get unlimited calls to U.S./Canada --------------------------------- Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. --------------------------------- Post your free ad now! Yahoo! Canada Personals [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]| 6327|6327|2004-12-08 13:29:47|khooper_fboats|Handling Huge Plates|Folks, Question about handling the 8' x 40' plates specified for the 40-footer. I'm almost certain this is going to be 1/4" (well, 6mm) aluminum. I need to build it in the back yard. Assuming these big things show up on a flat bed trailer: say I back the trailer into the yard, grab hold of the plate with several clamps and tie it all to a stake, then have the trailer drive out from under the plate. Will this kink or maim the aluminum in some way when it drops off the trailer? I can work out a couple gantries and moving things into place, but for some reason I'm having trouble thinking how to get 40' long, thousand pound slabs of metal onto the ground in the first place. Thx, Hoop| 6328|6328|2004-12-08 14:21:03|SHANE ROTHWELL|Re: Filters|Hi All, Has anyone got a good simple design for filtering liquids down to 5 micron or finer at a reasonable speed/volume. I need to clean up scrap oil (really disgusting stuf)at about 60 litres/min and don't really want to spend the BIG $$ the filtration co's want. Any Idea's most appreicated. Thanks Shane ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca| 6329|6328|2004-12-08 19:36:47|denis buggy|Re: Filters|dear Shane if you use a filter housing from a good quality scrap engine Volvo or Cummins and you use man filters or better you should get 5 microns if you have a lot you could try and replicate the oil recyclers by spinning a centrifuge and sucking the clean oil from the centre of the spinning goo as the carbon and metals will all move to the wall of the centrifuge large hino engines have a spinner on the side of the engine block this works in a similar fashion and you may get it on another engine . regards Denis ----- Original Message ----- From: SHANE ROTHWELL To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2004 7:21 PM Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Filters Hi All, Has anyone got a good simple design for filtering liquids down to 5 micron or finer at a reasonable speed/volume. I need to clean up scrap oil (really disgusting stuf)at about 60 litres/min and don't really want to spend the BIG $$ the filtration co's want. Any Idea's most appreicated. Thanks Shane ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor Get unlimited calls to U.S./Canada ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links a.. To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/ b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 6330|6323|2004-12-09 03:08:26|Graeme|Re: Dvd or vhf|Mikes all cashed up Alex/Brent: I suggest that you put together two videos: 1) A promotional video which highlights the construction method without giving away the details of construction. This would allow those interested in the concept to get a better idea of how a "Swain" comes together, without too much techno-babble. 2) A detailed construction video series - leaving nothing out - which could be supplied with the construction plans. Personally, I would find the extra couple of hundred $ for this series to be well worth the money & much cheaper than having Brent fly out to the Philippines when I start construction there. Just a thought, Mike seeratlas wrote: --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Alfredo Nannetti" wrote: > On the home page of our yahoo group there is written about a video > of the origami boat building process, made on dvd or vhf. > Does anybody knows if it is ready? How can I get it? > I already have the book but a video wuold help much more to > anderstand evrything..... > ciao > > alfredo Ciao Alfredo, I recently talked to Alex about this and if I understood him correctly, he told me that most of the 'filming' is done and voluminous. He was trying to decide how much of the construction to include i.e. whether to go all the way thru completion of the boat and how much of the video should be included as he has substantially more than the usual 45 minute "how to" type film you normally see. We'll no doubt hear from him in response to your post and see where he is currently. While I've got your attention, what part of Italy are you from and where do you live now? Ho studiato al Universidad di Firenze :) seer To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor Get unlimited calls to U.S./Canada --------------------------------- Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. --------------------------------- Post your free ad now! Yahoo! Canada Personals [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links| 6331|6323|2004-12-09 12:24:33|fmichael graham|Re: Dvd or vhf|Graeme: LOL. MIke just wants to get every second of footage to prevent screwing-up! Actually, my suggestions would most benefit non-local builders who can't afford to hire the real deal(Brent). I know, many have built Swain designed boats with far less assistance, but, I'll be building in a pretty remote area where, at any given moment, there's a 50/50 chance that the phones are down. I'd hate to weld my keel(s) to the coachhouse roof by mistake! LOL Regards, Mike Graeme wrote: Mikes all cashed up --------------------------------- Post your free ad now! Yahoo! Canada Personals [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]| 6332|6323|2004-12-09 13:22:23|Alex Christie|Origami Dvd|Dear Group, Work still continues on the DVD, and I hope to get it released in the new year. Sorry for the delay, but I'm on a steeper learning curve with this stuff than I ever was with boatbuilding! Also, because of the size of the film, the editing process is quite complex. I'm learning now why post-production on films takes time and money. Having reviewed the footage, I'm quite sure that I'll be able to include every step of the building process on one film, so don't worry about anything being left out. I'm putting up some photos of the project today, hopefully, after finally getting the bugs out of my PC computer where all the photos are held. Regards, Alex Christie| 6333|6323|2004-12-09 13:23:09|Alfredo Nannetti|Re: Dvd or vhf|Ok, I hope that the video will be ready soon. Sugar, you studied very close to my town (about 100 kms). I'm from Livorno a small town on the seaside in Toscany. You are the second in the origami forum which tells me about studing in Italy! :) Ciao alfredo > Ciao Alfredo, > > I recently talked to Alex about this and if I understood him > correctly, he told me that most of the 'filming' is done and > voluminous. He was trying to decide how much of the construction to > include i.e. whether to go all the way thru completion of the boat and > how much of the video should be included as he has substantially more > than the usual 45 minute "how to" type film you normally see. > > We'll no doubt hear from him in response to your post and see where he > is currently. > > While I've got your attention, what part of Italy are you from and > where do you live now? Ho studiato al Universidad di Firenze :) > > seer > | 6334|6327|2004-12-09 14:40:17|John Jones|Re: Handling Huge Plates|It's no big deal It just slides off the truck like paper slipping off a table, a plate clamp might make it easier or, figure out where you can drill a hole and go from there. A come-along works well to move things about... Or a pry bar. have fun,,, John --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "khooper_fboats" wrote: > > > Folks, > > Question about handling the 8' x 40' plates specified > for the 40-footer. I'm almost certain this is going > to be 1/4" (well, 6mm) aluminum. I need to build it > in the back yard. > > Assuming these big things show up on a flat bed > trailer: say I back the trailer into the yard, > grab hold of the plate with several clamps and > tie it all to a stake, then have the trailer drive > out from under the plate. > > Will this kink or maim the aluminum in some way when > it drops off the trailer? > > I can work out a couple gantries and moving things > into place, but for some reason I'm having trouble > thinking how to get 40' long, thousand pound slabs > of metal onto the ground in the first place. > > Thx, > > Hoop | 6335|6327|2004-12-09 15:37:55|Alex Christie|Re: Handling Huge Plates|The steel plates came off of the truck at my building site with minimal effort. As John said, put a plate clamp on the edge, or a burn/drill a hole. Use chain to attach from the clamp/shackle to something hard to move, like the base of a tree (you can put something like cardboard or burlap between chain and tree if concerned about damage to tree). As the truck pulls forward the steel or aluminum will droop and contact the ground more and more. It is only the last bit on the truck which will "flap" down to the ground, not the weight of the entire piece, so there is a good measure of "anchoring" long before the tail of the steel leaves the deck, and control is assured. The 40 foot plates are not much bigger than the 36 footers because they are the same width, so should only differ in how long it takes for the last bit to "flap" off the truck. As long as the pull is straight, the load should come off straight. Concentrate on aligning the pull of the struck with the line to the tree and everything should go smoothly from there. If not, you'll have the steel pulling off at an angle. I don't think this would be any different for aluminum than steel, though I have no direct experience with large alu plates. My only other thought is that alu is easily gouged by steel, so try and pad the rough steel edge of the truck deck's aft edge to prevent a huge scratch on your alu plate along its length as the plate is drawn off. I've got some scratches on my steel plate which appear to have occurred during handling before it even arrived at the site, but these are easily fixed because I will be painting the hull. Bare alu may ask for more careful handling to avoid scratches and gouges. Anyone else out there with some thoughts on this? Alex| 6336|6323|2004-12-09 15:57:13|Carl Nostrand|Re: Origami Dvd|Alex, Its a very big project making a DVD or a Video with a PC. I have been fooling around with video for years with my apple computer. I have made some 5 min. productions with nice results. My old Apple computer is a G3 300, which is not happy working video with the new OS and soft ware (FCP) that I have on my system. I'm saving for a new G5 system that will not crash......... The most important thing is to get the steps recorded on DV tape! Post production can be very cool and fun with the right system. Don't be shy about making quick cuts to the next step, keeps the viewer overloaded which is good. He or she will want to watch it again and again to get schooled in Origami boat-building , which is very good! I wish that I was able to help you in post production. Post is were time just flys by, and nights turn into days, and days into weeks, and so on..... You will have a great sense of accomplishment and power after post production. Try not to let critical remarks from others which have not been through the massive learning curve to make a "DVD production", get you down. Its all so very easy to be destructive than constructive in are world. Best of luck! Carl Nostrand Homer Alaska On Dec 9, 2004, at 9:14 AM, Alex Christie wrote: > > Dear Group, > > Work still continues on the DVD, and I hope to get it released in the > new year. Sorry for the delay, but I'm on a steeper learning curve > with this stuff than I ever was with > boatbuilding! Also, because of the size of the film, the editing > process is quite complex. I'm learning now why post-production on > films takes time and money. > > Having reviewed the footage, I'm quite sure that I'll be able to > include every step of the building process on one film, so don't worry > about anything being left out. > > I'm putting up some photos of the project today, hopefully, after > finally getting the bugs out of my PC computer where all the photos > are held. > > Regards, > > Alex Christie > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > | 6338|6323|2004-12-09 21:42:16|seeratlas|Re: Dvd or vhf|Hehehehe, This is 'Seer" not Sugar :) Been to Livorno, good wine :) nice coast :) hope to sail back there in my own boat in the coming years:) --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Alfredo Nannetti" wrote: > Ok, I hope that the video will be ready soon. > Sugar, you studied very close to my town (about 100 kms). I'm > from Livorno a small town on the seaside in Toscany. > You are the second in the origami forum which tells me about > studing in Italy! :) > > Ciao alfredo > > > > > > Ciao Alfredo, > > > > I recently talked to Alex about this and if I understood him > > correctly, he told me that most of the 'filming' is done and > > voluminous. He was trying to decide how much of the construction to > > include i.e. whether to go all the way thru completion of the boat and > > how much of the video should be included as he has substantially more > > than the usual 45 minute "how to" type film you normally see. > > > > We'll no doubt hear from him in response to your post and see where he > > is currently. > > > > While I've got your attention, what part of Italy are you from and > > where do you live now? Ho studiato al Universidad di Firenze :) > > > > seer > > | 6339|6339|2004-12-09 22:10:50|Alex|new album of Alex's project|Hi Group, I've harvested some stills from my Origami boatbuilding video, and will add more as soon as I can. The current stills show the laying out of the patterns as well as some cutting. If I have time in the next few days, I'll lay down some more stills in the album showing the hull being pulled together. Images lose something without the motion and commentary, though, and when I get this film out to those who want it I think you'll agree. I've found that some of the footage is sometimes a little rough looking, as I was also acting as Brent's helper and would often have to "drop" the camera and hold something steady. If I do a gag reel, you'll also see the time the camera and tripod wobbled and fell off the deck onto ground (it still works, amazingly). Ideally it would have been good to only be responsible for camera work (a little healthier, but I guess we'll have to count ourselves lucky to have captured the elusive Origami boatbuilding techniques at all. As far as editing goes, I know some of you are worried that good stuff will end up on the cutting room floor, but I haven't had to make any sacrifices of anything important. For example the scenes of me running from the camera after hitting "record", and running back to the camera to hit "pause" have been cut -- that has nothing to do with the building of the boat! If you are concerned that a crucial step might be left out, don't worry, it'll all be there, barring the few times when I could not handle both camera and steel. Even then we often "re-staged" quick clips of important tips and tricks Brent would tell me along the way, just to make sure it's all included. Watching the rough cuts of my film, I'd say that if I were someone looking at it having never built an origami boat before I'd be happy with the details shown, though the final judgement will ultimately be in the hands of the viewing public. Someone mentioned the idea of doing a short, promotional video, and that's an excellent idea. It could be rendered out of the building video later (first things first!). Alex| 6340|6339|2004-12-09 22:34:02|Paul Cotter|Re: new album of Alex's project|Alex, I do a little work with a building organization. We were contemplating making an informational video. Those in the know commented that the going rate for professional quality video was $1000/minute of finished video. It’s a lot of work! I was impressed with your idea of shooting some video to document the technique and pass some tricks to those of use with 10 thumbs. Keep up the great work. I’m sure whatever you can produce will be graciously received. I certainly nominate you to the origami boat-website-moderator/video-producer hall of fame! Cheers Paul -----Original Message----- From: Alex [mailto:achristie@...] Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2004 6:10 PM To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Subject: [origamiboats] new album of Alex's project Hi Group, I've harvested some stills from my Origami boatbuilding video, and will add more as soon as I can. The current stills show the laying out of the patterns as well as some cutting. If I have time in the next few days, I'll lay down some more stills in the album showing the hull being pulled together. Images lose something without the motion and commentary, though, and when I get this film out to those who want it I think you'll agree. I've found that some of the footage is sometimes a little rough looking, as I was also acting as Brent's helper and would often have to "drop" the camera and hold something steady. If I do a gag reel, you'll also see the time the camera and tripod wobbled and fell off the deck onto ground (it still works, amazingly). Ideally it would have been good to only be responsible for camera work (a little healthier, but I guess we'll have to count ourselves lucky to have captured the elusive Origami boatbuilding techniques at all. As far as editing goes, I know some of you are worried that good stuff will end up on the cutting room floor, but I haven't had to make any sacrifices of anything important. For example the scenes of me running from the camera after hitting "record", and running back to the camera to hit "pause" have been cut -- that has nothing to do with the building of the boat! If you are concerned that a crucial step might be left out, don't worry, it'll all be there, barring the few times when I could not handle both camera and steel. Even then we often "re-staged" quick clips of important tips and tricks Brent would tell me along the way, just to make sure it's all included. Watching the rough cuts of my film, I'd say that if I were someone looking at it having never built an origami boat before I'd be happy with the details shown, though the final judgement will ultimately be in the hands of the viewing public. Someone mentioned the idea of doing a short, promotional video, and that's an excellent idea. It could be rendered out of the building video later (first things first!). Alex To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT click here _____ Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]| 6341|6341|2004-12-10 00:19:52|Alex|photo album for video clip shots|Sorry, forgot to mention, the photos are in the first album, "1- Alex's boat". Alex| 6342|6341|2004-12-10 05:53:12|Alex|Update to: photo album for video clip shots|Dear Group, I've also added a bunch of commentary from the film to each photo currently in the album "1-Alex's Boat", so in a sense you are watching the first part of the film (very rough-cut, no intro). It may give you an idea as to what the film will be like, in any case. I'm going to stop going on about this album and get back to my editing cave and finish this film! Thanks for the encouraging words, keep it coming! Alex| 6343|6341|2004-12-10 12:39:55|Gerd|Re: Update to: photo album for video clip shots|Great work and nice shots Alex! Can't wait to see the rest and the movie. Reminds me... quite a nostalgic feeling, almost makes me want to start all over again ;-) Also again amazed how short your cuts are compared to Yago. Only thing I would advise beginners: You would get a much cleaner and fairer cut - and thus easier assembly - with a disk instead of oxy rig. Did both on my hull, and there was a big difference. Gerd The YAGO Project at http://www.justmueller.com/boats/| 6344|6319|2004-12-10 18:14:02|kingsknight4life|Re: ballast|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "carlmbentley" wrote: > > how much lead do i need for a twin keel 36.... Carl. You need 4500 lbs of lead for a 36ft. twin keel. The higher number comes from the weight of the steel in the keel, that also acts as ballast. I know because I asked Brent the same question a couple of weeks ago. Go with the used keels if you can get them, they are WAY nicer to melt than tire weights and dirty lead. I also melted some of my lead so that more of it was towards the forward edge of the keel up against the solid bar in there. As per Brent, again. (As I right this he is finishing welding in fuel tanks in my keels. I have the flu and I can't weld. lol) Rowland| 6345|6339|2004-12-10 20:25:56|Gary H. Lucas|Re: new album of Alex's project|I once had a professional video done for a product that I was selling. A ten minute video cost me $12,000! That was the cheapest quote, I had quotes up to $40,000. I worked with the people during the shooting and afterwards in the editing studio. It was shot on Super Betamax at the time and then transferred to 2" reel to reel multi channel tape. They turned out to be real pros. They were shooting in a greenhouse ( a VERY tough lighting environment ) and they had an eye for every tiny little detail. In a 12 hour day we shot over 2 hours worth of video which got edited down to just 10 minutes. The results were superb, everybody was really blown away by how good our video was, and it sold machines for us too. A few years later another company had take over the production of my products and they wanted to shoot a new video. It cost them $4000. They sent me a raw footage tape. I wanted to cry. They left covers open on electrical boxes, The view panned wildly while the cameraman walked away forgetting to turn off the camera. The focus zoomed in and out wildly most of the time, and the lighting was atrocious. A cart that hung on an overhead rail 'walked' down an aisle on the legs of the person pushing it, you couldn't see the overhead rail. It was really really bad. The guy who did the post production editing used an Amiga 'toaster'. I was incredibly impressed. What he did with the garbage he was given was truly incredible. You wouldn't believe it was possible if you saw the rough footage! I can only imagine what a beautiful job he could have done given some good footage to begin with. I learned a couple of simple lessons from this. It is really really important to create a WRITTEN script before you do any shooting. A well written script makes sure you actually GET shots of the important details, that you remember seeing, but weren't caught on tape. The first company sent me a written script for approval. It was easy to imagine what the finished tape would show and the shooting clicked right along with nothing getting overlooked. If someone else is shooting for you a written script ensures they get all the right shots. The next lesson was paying a LOT of attention to details while shooting. What REALLY helps here is hooking up a television set to the camera while shooting so others can watch and pick up on the problems a very busy cameraman misses. The first company had 3 monitors! I shot some simple videos later myself and the television connected to the camera really made a difference. Over the years I also provided a crane with a basket on the end to TV commercial production companies for cigarette commercials. What they went through for a 30 SECOND commercial had to be seen to be believed. Sometimes if took three days! I hope Alex will tell us the whole tale when he's done. It should be interesting. Gary H. Lucas| 6346|6339|2004-12-10 20:46:46|Alex Christie|filming Origamiboats|Yes, I've got a few tales to tell about filming -- being the producer, cameraman, director, "actor/welder", light technician (I used piece of scrap aluminum sheet), and now editor has been an experience to be remembered. The camera falling off the boat scene will likely be in the "gags/bloopers" section and should be good for a laugh (with the bad language removed!). I should have used a sandbag and a rope to the top of the tripod -- good to remember for next time. I feel we did okay under the circumstances. Of course there are things I'd do differently given the chance to do it again, which is a similar feeling most people have about their boats! Alex| 6347|6339|2004-12-10 22:09:29|Gary H. Lucas|Re: filming Origamiboats|I forgot about the falling camera incident! I was installing a machine at a customer in Florida and my Dad had come along. He'd had a stroke a few years earlier and couldn't work any more. He rented a video camera to show the machine to people at home. It was brand new, the store took it out of the box to rent it. He was holding it high up in the air trying to open the tripod legs when it fell off! It hit the tips of my fingers and flipped over, hitting the concrete and ejecting the tape. Then it promptly sank in 18" of water! We fished it out and dried it by blowing compressed air through all the openings for about 1/2 an hour. Dad felt really bad and had to buy it. We sent it back to the manufacturer and they said our quick work had saved it, it was just fine. It is still working 15 years later. Gary H. Lucas| 6348|6327|2004-12-11 16:46:26|edward_stoneuk|Re: Handling Huge Plates|Hoop, When we unloaded the steel off the truck we did it the same way as has been mentioned and used old tyres to break its fall as we were unloading onto made up ground in an old barn with a brick or two sticking up. We also used 2 chain hoists with an endless haul chains to move heavy stuff about. I removed the chain guard from the side of the hoist so that the chain can be removed which makes it lighter to carry. When pulling horizontally you flip the returning haul chain over the haul chain you are pulling on so that it does not fall off the gypsy. I have put a photo of the chain hoist being used, although not horizontally, into the photo section of origamiboat 2 under Ted & Fiona Boat Bits. 6 mm aluminum seems a bit thin for a 40' hull. Is that right? Regards, Ted| 6349|6327|2004-12-11 18:59:01|khooper_fboats|Re: Handling Huge Plates|Thanks for the replies on this, it's been helpful. --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "edward_stoneuk" wrote: [...] > I have put a photo of the chain hoist being > used, although not horizontally, into the photo section of > origamiboat 2 under Ted & Fiona Boat Bits. Haven't been able to find the photo but looking forward to seeing your arrangement. I'll be doing this virtually singlehanded so will probably make two rolling bridges w/ 14' span and a dolly on each. > 6 mm aluminum seems a > bit thin for a 40' hull. Is that right? There appear to be at least two 40' Swains out there built in 1/4". Not sure how they'll hold up. I don't know if there are specifications for aluminum in the Swain book because it has not arrived yet. But I've been thinking the same thing. Looks like with 8mm hull and 6mm deck the two would be ~5850 lbs not counting extrusions and waste--just about half the weight of the steel hull if my math is right and roughly twice the cost perhaps. 8mm should be a stout hull. What do you think? --Hoop | 6350|6327|2004-12-12 07:17:41|edward_stoneuk|Re: Handling Huge Plates|Hoop, Origamiboats 2 is the overflow site to this one. I think Ben started it because the photo section on this site is full up. I wouldn't know what size aluminum to use. My limited experience is that it requires more thought in the design and building than does steel. For instance, I read in an old book of mine that 5251 which is a marine grade is available in four different grades: M(as manufactured, O (Annealed the lowest strength and not a common stock condition), H3, and H6 (Both strain hardened). The ultimate tensile strength, which varies according to its condition varies from 160 to 275 MN/m2. If you started with a work hardened piece of ali and then welded it, thus annealing it, then you have almost halved its strength in the heat affected area. The Metal Boat Society's forum would be worth a visit as perhaps would www.reducosall.com. Regards, Ted| 6351|6323|2004-12-12 10:52:13|Sugar|Re: Dvd or vhf|Hi Alfredo, Yes I have spoke to you on this site. I love your thoughts on life. Sorry for the confusion. I am a girl. Seer is a guy, and an old friend of mine and our names are similar. I have not as yet been to Italy, but I'm hoping to visit this coming summer. I'm very excited about traveling in your area. Sugar --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "seeratlas" wrote: > > Hehehehe, > This is 'Seer" not Sugar :) > Been to Livorno, good wine :) nice coast :) hope to sail back there in > my own boat in the coming years:) > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Alfredo Nannetti" > wrote: > > Ok, I hope that the video will be ready soon. > > Sugar, you studied very close to my town (about 100 kms). I'm > > from Livorno a small town on the seaside in Toscany. > > You are the second in the origami forum which tells me about > > studing in Italy! :) > > > > Ciao alfredo > > > > > > > > > > > Ciao Alfredo, > > > > > > I recently talked to Alex about this and if I understood him > > > correctly, he told me that most of the 'filming' is done and > > > voluminous. He was trying to decide how much of the construction to > > > include i.e. whether to go all the way thru completion of the boat and > > > how much of the video should be included as he has substantially more > > > than the usual 45 minute "how to" type film you normally see. > > > > > > We'll no doubt hear from him in response to your post and see where he > > > is currently. > > > > > > While I've got your attention, what part of Italy are you from and > > > where do you live now? Ho studiato al Universidad di Firenze :) > > > > > > seer > > > | 6352|6327|2004-12-12 22:44:46|khooper_fboats|Re: Handling Huge Plates|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "edward_stoneuk" wrote: [...] > condition), H3, and H6 (Both strain hardened). The ultimate tensile > strength, which varies according to its condition varies from 160 to > 275 MN/m2. If you started with a work hardened piece of ali and > then welded it, thus annealing it, then you have almost halved its > strength in the heat affected area. Truly this is why origami is well suited to aluminum by my lights-- very few welds, and the welds that do exist are strengthened by their geometry such that the loss of temper doesn't matter. The one thing that worries me is that vertical butt amidships on top of the dart. Also there would be a soft area just at the ends of each dart, although that one is localized & probably doesn't matter much. Kasten and some others suggest that as long as the aluminum is 1.5 times the thickness of mild steel, the as-welded strength is roughly the same. This gives the 6mm hull with a bit of fudging. The 8mm hull is going on twice the thickness of the steel one. I am not an engineer at all and will defer to any competent person. IAC my only choice is the dimensions; my neighbors are not going to put up with the noise of steel (all my neighbors are pretty cool people and I wouldn't put them through that even if it were legal-- I have to build it in aluminum if I am going to build it in metal). > The Metal Boat Society's forum > would be worth a visit as perhaps would www.reducosall.com. Thank you! www.redusall.com doesn't load, nor any spelling permutation I could think of. | 6353|6327|2004-12-12 23:46:29|Alex Christie|Re: Handling Huge Plates|The Meta shipyard's URL is www.reducostall.com Alex On 12-Dec-04, at 7:44 PM, khooper_fboats wrote: >> > > Thank you! www.redusall.com doesn't load, nor any spelling > permutation I could think of. > | 6354|6327|2004-12-13 02:36:24|fmichael graham|Re: Handling Huge Plates|Trevor Bolt makes some interesting comments on fabricating with aluminum on his yacht design web site. well worth a look. Regards, Mike edward_stoneuk wrote: Hoop, Origamiboats 2 is the overflow site to this one. I think Ben started it because the photo section on this site is full up. I wouldn't know what size aluminum to use. My limited experience is that it requires more thought in the design and building than does steel. For instance, I read in an old book of mine that 5251 which is a marine grade is available in four different grades: M(as manufactured, O (Annealed the lowest strength and not a common stock condition), H3, and H6 (Both strain hardened). The ultimate tensile strength, which varies according to its condition varies from 160 to 275 MN/m2. If you started with a work hardened piece of ali and then welded it, thus annealing it, then you have almost halved its strength in the heat affected area. The Metal Boat Society's forum would be worth a visit as perhaps would www.reducosall.com. Regards, Ted To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT --------------------------------- Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. --------------------------------- Post your free ad now! Yahoo! Canada Personals [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]| 6355|6327|2004-12-13 13:49:04|edward_stoneuk|Re: Handling Huge Plates|Hoop, Sorry about the mispelling. Alex gave the correct address. I agree about the minimal welding, It was one of the things that attracted me to origamiboats. I am building a steel BS 36. The design plate thickness is 3/16" which in metric is 4.7625 mm. As I am building in the UK, where that thickness is not available, I asked Brent if I should go up to 5 mm or down to 4 mm. He advised me to go up to 5 mm, which made me think that 6 mm aluminum is a bit thin. Others have built origamiboats in aluminum so there should be examples to use. Regards, Ted| 6356|6356|2004-12-13 21:36:10|jericoera|Blown mainsail|Well, the sailing course is going well. I had my first taste of strong wind today in the Malispina Strait at 35-38 knots of wind. The mainsail blew out as the wind came up fast before the instructor had time to get it reefed. The little 25 C&C by GOS was going 7.5 knots and bursting to 8 knots presumably what they call surfing. I was most impressed with the hove to maneauver-who ever thought of that trick deserves an award. Anyway, beside being wet, had a great day and learned a very healthy respect for the power of the wind and the waves. Cheers Carl Mcintosh| 6357|22|2004-12-13 22:21:44|origamiboats@yahoogroups.com|New file uploaded to origamiboats |Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the origamiboats group. File : /Pilothouse equipment /intpana2.jpg Uploaded by : ben_azo Description : small & efficient You can access this file at the URL: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/files/Pilothouse%20equipment%20/intpana2.jpg To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit: http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files Regards, ben_azo | 6358|22|2004-12-13 22:29:51|origamiboats@yahoogroups.com|New file uploaded to origamiboats |Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the origamiboats group. File : /Pilothouse equipment /Tinywheelh2.jpg Uploaded by : ben_azo Description : fine arrangement for the 26' You can access this file at the URL: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/files/Pilothouse%20equipment%20/Tinywheelh2.jpg To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit: http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files Regards, ben_azo | 6359|6327|2004-12-13 23:11:15|Puck III|Re: Handling Huge Plates/ Frameless Aluminum scants|I seriously think the 26' & 31' BS can be build in 8mm thick aluminum ; except to support the floor , a front watertight bulkhead , engine & keel(s) and skeg frames , no framing is needed , one would end up with an extreem strong alu boat with almost no maintenance , as strong but sure more pretty than the Reducostall products . The weight : grosso modo the same as steel In precut kitform ; professional welders need under 160 hours to have a haul away hull ready with deck , superstructures , cockpit ,skeg with rudder installed . Easy to conform to EU & classification standards at a bargain price cause its the labor that's costing . A low value $ makes it an interesting export product . Just some toughts............:-) Old Ben --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "edward_stoneuk" wrote: > > Hoop, > Sorry about the mispelling. Alex gave the correct address. I agree > about the minimal welding, It was one of the things that attracted > me to origamiboats. I am building a steel BS 36. The design plate > thickness is 3/16" which in metric is 4.7625 mm. As I am building > in the UK, where that thickness is not available, I asked Brent if I > should go up to 5 mm or down to 4 mm. He advised me to go up to 5 > mm, which made me think that 6 mm aluminum is a bit thin. Others > have built origamiboats in aluminum so there should be examples to > use. > Regards, > Ted | 6360|6360|2004-12-14 00:07:21|Puck III|GRP Origami boatbuilding|Preparing a Sandwich on a table : what's more natural ? A sandwich with some GRP and some Foam on a table ? http://www.kelsall.com/KSShtm all that following the KISS principle and I cant but find a certain resemblance with the " Origami " Group topic :-) cause I sure see some familiarities :-) Does anybody else knows of an interesting Plastic Origami Link ? Just curious Old Ben| 6361|6361|2004-12-14 04:30:34|Alfredo Nannetti|Waiting for the film|Yours pictures, Alex, are very interesting. I just want to say from Italy for more encourageing...come on with this film! We are all waiting for you! Sorry Sugar, sorry Seer...:))) I made a bit of confusion with names and english...ehm...ehm... Anyway, reading the Origami boats book and watching the pictures on the site, I surprisely noticed that you all use preprimed steel metal sheet. Of course that save tha bloody dirty job of sunblasting the boat. But I have a question. I've already built some boats and, for experience, I know that at the end of the building process the entire hull is full of burnt points. For instance: the metres and metres of welding, all the places where you temporary weld peaces of steel to help during the building, the cuts of portholes and peaks, the welding of all the deck particoulars (chain plates, bollards, handrail, etc.), the bolt on the keel for anodes, and so on... At the end the hull is full of places unprimed and rusted. Thats why is convenient sunblasting the boat totally to make a better adesion of the painting. At least that what we say here in Italy. But, you avoid the sunblusting. So I wonder what are you doing about all this rusty areas. What treatment do you usually apply and what is the result during the future? I mean, sunblusting is terrible, expensive, and always a problem for the huge cloud of dust it creates that neighboors don't really like... You are telling me you've got a solution to avoid it? All the best Alfredo| 6362|6360|2004-12-14 05:33:17|sae140|Re: GRP Origami boatbuilding|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III" wrote: > > Preparing a Sandwich on a table : what's more natural ? > A sandwich with some GRP and some Foam on a table ? > http://www.kelsall.com/KSShtm > all that following the KISS principle and I cant but find a > certain resemblance with the " Origami " Group topic :-) > cause I sure see some familiarities :-) > Does anybody else knows of an interesting > Plastic Origami Link ? > Just curious > Old Ben Hi Ben I had to go through the Kelsall front door as the link you gave didn't work for me (odd ...) Interesting to see a quasi-Origami (as they still use a frame of sorts) method used with other materials. Cynic that I am however, I suspect economy in building costs is a key factor here, rather than seaworthiness of the finished product. I'm currently working on a heavy-weight grp hull from the 60's, and although I've repaired grp dinghies before, this is the first time I've taken on a major glass repair project. This particular boat broke it's moorings in a blow and went walkabout around the protected harbour for one tide only. Where the stanchions had fouled, the hull- deck join area has cracked, the pulpit has been ripped clean off, and where are a couple of fist-sized holes from contact with steel posts. And this is a hull renowned as being built like a tank. Some tank ! That such a relatively minor incident should have resulted in such damage has been a great learning point - I shudder to think how a modern foam composite hull would have faired. It's definitely steel for me from now on ...... Regards, Colin| 6363|6360|2004-12-14 13:43:22|fmichael graham|Re: GRP Origami boatbuilding|Colin: Added to that is the wonderful feeling of not having itchy arms when you've spent all day repairing steel. Regards, Mike sae140 wrote: --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III" wrote: > > Preparing a Sandwich on a table : what's more natural ? > A sandwich with some GRP and some Foam on a table ? > http://www.kelsall.com/KSShtm > all that following the KISS principle and I cant but find a > certain resemblance with the " Origami " Group topic :-) > cause I sure see some familiarities :-) > Does anybody else knows of an interesting > Plastic Origami Link ? > Just curious > Old Ben Hi Ben I had to go through the Kelsall front door as the link you gave didn't work for me (odd ...) Interesting to see a quasi-Origami (as they still use a frame of sorts) method used with other materials. Cynic that I am however, I suspect economy in building costs is a key factor here, rather than seaworthiness of the finished product. I'm currently working on a heavy-weight grp hull from the 60's, and although I've repaired grp dinghies before, this is the first time I've taken on a major glass repair project. This particular boat broke it's moorings in a blow and went walkabout around the protected harbour for one tide only. Where the stanchions had fouled, the hull- deck join area has cracked, the pulpit has been ripped clean off, and where are a couple of fist-sized holes from contact with steel posts. And this is a hull renowned as being built like a tank. Some tank ! That such a relatively minor incident should have resulted in such damage has been a great learning point - I shudder to think how a modern foam composite hull would have faired. It's definitely steel for me from now on ...... Regards, Colin To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT --------------------------------- Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. --------------------------------- Post your free ad now! Yahoo! Canada Personals [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 6364|6364|2004-12-14 16:00:57|brentswain38|Keel tankage|Some people have been building my boats without the tankage in the keels . Raising 200 gallons( 2000 lbs) of tankage up into the level accomodations has the same effect on stability as adding 350 lbs to the weight of the mast. One builder who doesn't believe in putting the tanks in the keel had a serious stability problem, but doesn't appear to have made the connection between the position of several hundred gallons of liquid and extreme tenderness in the hull when sailing.We spend a lot of time worrying about the effect of a few ounces aloft while ignoring the location af several thousand punds of tankage. If you treat a boat like a house ( Yeah lets put that heavy stuff in the attic) You end up with a boat which sails like a house. Brent| 6365|6327|2004-12-14 16:05:17|brentswain38|Re: Handling Huge Plates|for the 36, I'd use 6mm aluminium for the hull and 5 mm for the decks. Thats what Ercan used and it worke dout well. Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, fmichael graham wrote: > Trevor Bolt makes some interesting comments on fabricating with aluminum on his yacht design web site. well worth a look. > Regards, > Mike > > > edward_stoneuk wrote: > > Hoop, > Origamiboats 2 is the overflow site to this one. I think Ben > started it because the photo section on this site is full up. I > wouldn't know what size aluminum to use. My limited experience is > that it requires more thought in the design and building than does > steel. For instance, I read in an old book of mine that 5251 which > is a marine grade is available in four different grades: M(as > manufactured, O (Annealed the lowest strength and not a common stock > condition), H3, and H6 (Both strain hardened). The ultimate tensile > strength, which varies according to its condition varies from 160 to > 275 MN/m2. If you started with a work hardened piece of ali and > then welded it, thus annealing it, then you have almost halved its > strength in the heat affected area. The Metal Boat Society's forum > would be worth a visit as perhaps would www.reducosall.com. > Regards, > Ted > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats- unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT > > > --------------------------------- > Yahoo! Groups Links > > To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/ > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > > > > --------------------------------- > Post your free ad now! Yahoo! Canada Personals > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 6366|6364|2004-12-14 16:07:51|Michael Casling|Re: Keel tankage|For me it is like inventory control. The light stuff like life jackets go upstairs, the heavy stuff like chain stays downstairs on the floor. Michael ----- Original Message ----- From: brentswain38 To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, December 14, 2004 1:00 PM Subject: [origamiboats] Keel tankage Some people have been building my boats without the tankage in the keels . Raising 200 gallons( 2000 lbs) of tankage up into the level accomodations has the same effect on stability as adding 350 lbs to the weight of the mast. One builder who doesn't believe in putting the tanks in the keel had a serious stability problem, but doesn't appear to have made the connection between the position of several hundred gallons of liquid and extreme tenderness in the hull when sailing.We spend a lot of time worrying about the effect of a few ounces aloft while ignoring the location af several thousand punds of tankage. If you treat a boat like a house ( Yeah lets put that heavy stuff in the attic) You end up with a boat which sails like a house. Brent To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links a.. To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/ b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 6367|6367|2004-12-15 01:42:54|Puck III|Watertight entrance door pics|You will find some selfexplaining pics how to build a watertight entrance door in the " Ben's Stuff " Folder in Photos ( please give me the correct name of the thing in english :-) , it slides out of the way and can also be kept open to keep the rain out and leave air in underway , easy to build for the better welder . The pic 4 gives you the profile , the one in the pics was made in aluminum and painted white . Just to see what was build for race-boats sure has a place on a cruising boat . Give me some feedback Old Ben| 6368|6367|2004-12-15 06:48:49|edward_stoneuk|Re: Watertight entrance door pics|Ben, Its a neat idea. A bit like an up and over garage door. Capot translates as cap, as I guess you know, but that doesn't really fit the bill. Perhaps an up and over hatch is nearest. Regards, Ted| 6369|6367|2004-12-15 12:52:32|Alex Christie|Re: Watertight entrance door pics|I noticed the caption on Ben's photo "Capotetanche", which is "Capot Etanche" run together. Literally translated, "Capot" means "Cover", or "Bonnet", and "Etanche" means "Weather-proof", so "Capot Étanche" basically means "Weather-proof Hatch" in English. So Ben, your translation to "watertight entrance door" is right on the money -- Your English is excellent! That hatch looks interesting -- although for any boat it would be adapted to it looks like it would need the same inset structure as shown, and I don't know how that would fit on a pilot-house typical to Brent's boats (without losing some interior space, but it would work on a regular cabin. It is certainly better than the wrongly cherished "drop-boards" and sliding hatch we see on so many boats still. Salut, Alex On 14-Dec-04, at 10:42 PM, Puck III wrote: > > > You will find some selfexplaining pics how to build a watertight > entrance door in the " Ben's Stuff " Folder in Photos ( please give > me the correct name of the thing in english :-) , it slides out of the > way and can also be kept open to keep the rain out and leave air > in underway , easy to build for the better welder . > The pic 4 gives you the profile , the one in the pics was made > in aluminum and painted white . > Just to see what was build for race-boats sure has a place > on a cruising boat . > Give me some feedback > Old Ben > | 6370|6367|2004-12-16 01:23:00|John Jones|Re: Watertight entrance door pics|-I don't know how anyone else feels but I want a watertight door AAAAAAANNNDDDD a "sight guage" so I can see the depth of the water outside the cabin before I open the door. It's worth a look. If the whole thing is a watertight container then it can't sink and it's you're only life line in a great big sea.... and that's just the top of it. John -- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III" wrote: > > You will find some selfexplaining pics how to build a watertight > entrance door in the " Ben's Stuff " Folder in Photos ( please give > me the correct name of the thing in english :-) , it slides out of the > way and can also be kept open to keep the rain out and leave air > in underway , easy to build for the better welder . > The pic 4 gives you the profile , the one in the pics was made > in aluminum and painted white . > Just to see what was build for race-boats sure has a place > on a cruising boat . > Give me some feedback > Old Ben | 6371|6367|2004-12-16 02:05:53|Puck III|Re: Watertight entrance door pics & big buyancy bags|John , in case you open the door to early when recovering from a knockdown , it could be safe to ad the boyancy bags wich can be made to open automaticaly , 2 more pics in the same folder :-) hehehe 2 funny old pics I miss a jokes file in this Group , cause I know some good old seaman stories , I only need a little push in the good direction on the other hand I dont know how many woman and children are members in the Group ( I could post them in Origami 2 , the jokes I mean , sure not the woman & the kids :-) Old Ben --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "John Jones" wrote: > > -I don't know how anyone else feels but I want a watertight door > AAAAAAANNNDDDD a "sight guage" so I can see the depth of the water > outside the cabin before I open the door. It's worth a look. If the whole thing is > a watertight container then it can't sink and it's you're only life line in a great > big sea.... and that's just the top of it. > John > > > > -- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III" wrote: > > > > You will find some selfexplaining pics how to build a watertight > > entrance door in the " Ben's Stuff " Folder in Photos ( please give > > me the correct name of the thing in english :-) , it slides out of the > > way and can also be kept open to keep the rain out and leave air > > in underway , easy to build for the better welder . > > The pic 4 gives you the profile , the one in the pics was made > > in aluminum and painted white . > > Just to see what was build for race-boats sure has a place > > on a cruising boat . > > Give me some feedback > > Old Ben | 6372|6367|2004-12-16 02:17:17|Puck III|Re: Watertight entrance door pics|Alex your knowledge of the language of Molière is excellent sure better than mine cause my mothertongue is Dutch. A Capote , as used on a convertible car , better be watertight ; so is the case with the Capote Anglaise , a must for all lonely sailors . I leave more detailed explaining about that UK invention to a UK friend :-) Thoughts for older Seamen Old Ben --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Alex Christie wrote: > I noticed the caption on Ben's photo "Capotetanche", which is "Capot > Etanche" run together. Literally translated, "Capot" means "Cover", or > "Bonnet", and "Etanche" means "Weather-proof", so "Capot Étanche" > basically means "Weather-proof Hatch" in English. > > So Ben, your translation to "watertight entrance door" is right on the > money -- Your English is excellent! > > That hatch looks interesting -- although for any boat it would be > adapted to it looks like it would need the same inset structure as > shown, and I don't know how that would fit on a pilot-house typical to > Brent's boats (without losing some interior space, but it would work on > a regular cabin. It is certainly better than the wrongly cherished > "drop-boards" and sliding hatch we see on so many boats still. > > Salut, > > Alex > > > On 14-Dec-04, at 10:42 PM, Puck III wrote: > > > > > > > You will find some selfexplaining pics how to build a watertight > > entrance door in the " Ben's Stuff " Folder in Photos ( please give > > me the correct name of the thing in english :-) , it slides out of the > > way and can also be kept open to keep the rain out and leave air > > in underway , easy to build for the better welder . > > The pic 4 gives you the profile , the one in the pics was made > > in aluminum and painted white . > > Just to see what was build for race-boats sure has a place > > on a cruising boat . > > Give me some feedback > > Old Ben > > | 6373|6373|2004-12-16 13:15:38|John Jones|Main Hatch|Yes, the main hatch and any other hatch for that matter should be STRONG and watertight. My reason for wanting a sight glass was in the case of taking a wave over the stern and having a cockpit full of water witch would pour into the cabin when the as the main hatch was opened. It would be nice to know before you open the door.| 6374|6374|2004-12-16 14:33:56|Alfredo Nannetti|??|The no answer to my question make me think my english is not really understandable..... :( Was it so bed? ...I know it would be better some language lesson.... I saw the new picture in the home page of the site with someone cutting something on the pilothouse. Thats the point: - the boat is made of preprimed sheets - for this reason you don't sunblast the hull (i think) - but at the end of the costruction there are many places burnt where the paint is gone off and becouse you are outside they are probabily all rusty (maybe a lot) - is it enough the phosphoros stuff (as the US guy said, sorry i cant remember the name) to treat those parts? Is it good for the future life of the boat? Did anybody tried it? My english is still a problem..... Thanks Ciao ciao alfredo (Italy) - My question is: after all the cuts and all the welds, and having used the preprimed sheets,| 6375|6374|2004-12-16 15:21:36|Bruce C. Dillahunty|Re: ??|Alfredo Nannetti wrote: > The no answer to my question make me think my english is not > really understandable..... :( Was it so bed? ...I know it would be > better some language lesson.... > My english is still a problem..... > Thanks > > Ciao ciao > alfredo (Italy) > > - > > > My question is: after all the cuts and all the welds, and having > used the preprimed sheets, > > Well, I can't answer your technical question, but your English is fine (at least good enough to be understandable). I would imagine that nobody with an answer has gotten around to this message yet, especially with the holidays coming up, message traffic is down some, it seems. Bruce| 6376|6374|2004-12-16 16:03:27|Puck III|Re: ??|Hi Alfredo , general questions are more difficult and longer to answer :-) what kind of boat and construction do you have in mind ? you live in Italy and I live in Belgium so we both have to conform to the same EU rules , and they vary with size . are you considering self-building , or have the hull and superstructure probuild ( or are you a welder with some experience ? ) sory to ask all those questions ,but it's a lot easier to answer for a realistic and specific project. you are lucky I do not answer questions about all the pretty girls in your live , for wich you Italians have an outstanding worldwide reputation ( si si ) so tell us more about you ( the girls if you want to :-) your experience in boating and the particulars or the requirements of the boat you have in mind for your project. are you on the Adriatic coastline ? in the north or in the south? I realy look forward to hear more , just let us know more. Old Ben --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Alfredo Nannetti" wrote: > The no answer to my question make me think my english is not > really understandable..... :( Was it so bed? ...I know it would be > better some language lesson.... > > I saw the new picture in the home page of the site with someone > cutting something on the pilothouse. > Thats the point: > - the boat is made of preprimed sheets > - for this reason you don't sunblast the hull (i think) > - but at the end of the costruction there are many places burnt > where the paint is gone off and becouse you are outside they are > probabily all rusty (maybe a lot) > - is it enough the phosphoros stuff (as the US guy said, sorry i cant > remember the name) to treat those parts? Is it good for the future > life of the boat? Did anybody tried it? > > My english is still a problem..... > Thanks > > Ciao ciao > alfredo (Italy) > > > > > > > - > > > My question is: after all the cuts and all the welds, and having > used the preprimed sheets, | 6377|6374|2004-12-16 16:04:29|edward_stoneuk|Re: ??|Alfredo, Your English is fine. When people use preprimed sheets they usually clean the weld and grind marks and then paint them with primer. I bought untreated steel then when I had fabricated the components, such as the hull halves, keels etc, took them out into a field first to rust off the mill scale, which is slow and therefore expensive to sand blast, then sand blasted and primed them before bringing them back into the barn to complete the construction. The sequence depends on the availability of pre-primed sheet or sand or water blasters and any constraints at your build site. Regards, Ted| 6378|6374|2004-12-16 16:34:41|Sugar|Re: ??|Hi Alfredo, your English is good. Life they said, just takes longer when you have certain tech questions. :) Sugar --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Bruce C. Dillahunty" wrote: > Alfredo Nannetti wrote: > > The no answer to my question make me think my english is not > > really understandable..... :( Was it so bed? ...I know it would be > > better some language lesson.... > > > My english is still a problem..... > > Thanks > > > > Ciao ciao > > alfredo (Italy) > > > > - > > > > > > My question is: after all the cuts and all the welds, and having > > used the preprimed sheets, > > > > > > Well, I can't answer your technical question, but your English is fine > (at least good enough to be understandable). I would imagine that nobody > with an answer has gotten around to this message yet, especially with > the holidays coming up, message traffic is down some, it seems. > > Bruce | 6379|6373|2004-12-16 20:25:09|Gary H. Lucas|Re: Main Hatch|Do you really think you'll be able to push it open with a foot or more of water pressed against it? A foot of water exerts about .2 psi average, or about 28 lbs per square foot. So if the door feels real heavy you don't open it. Gary H. Lucas| 6380|6380|2004-12-16 23:07:25|squboat|Steel hull|For sale 36Ft? bare steel hull built vancouver island now located in Squamish brent swain design open to offers.| 6381|6380|2004-12-17 01:37:47|Alex Christie|Re: Steel hull|Hi squboat, To help you sell your hull, it would be helpful to the group/prospective buyers of your hull if you would outline these things: 1. State of completion of hull (any stainless detailing, priming, foaming, etc) 2. Twin keels or single? 3. Pilot house or regular cabin? 4. Shaft/skeg install or none, rudder? 5.Engine install or none? Also, if you have a photo or two to put in an album it would help us all visualize what you have on offer! Regards, Alex On 16-Dec-04, at 8:06 PM, squboat wrote: > > > For sale 36Ft? bare steel hull built vancouver island > now located in Squamish brent swain design > open to offers. > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > | 6382|6374|2004-12-17 03:24:30|Graeme|Re: ??|Alfedo That is phosphoric acid that you can use for rust removal , but you still need a mechanical barrier. There are other rust removal acids and treatments as well g The no answer to my question make me think my english is not really understandable..... :( Was it so bed? ...I know it would be better some language lesson.... I saw the new picture in the home page of the site with someone cutting something on the pilothouse. Thats the point: - the boat is made of preprimed sheets - for this reason you don't sunblast the hull (i think) - but at the end of the costruction there are many places burnt where the paint is gone off and becouse you are outside they are probabily all rusty (maybe a lot) - is it enough the phosphoros stuff (as the US guy said, sorry i cant remember the name) to treat those parts? Is it good for the future life of the boat? Did anybody tried it? My english is still a problem..... Thanks Ciao ciao alfredo (Italy) - My question is: after all the cuts and all the welds, and having used the preprimed sheets, To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links| 6383|6374|2004-12-17 04:58:04|Gerd|Re: ??|Hi Alfredo Important point you make there... and there is no final answer. If you use pre-primed material, all depends on how fast and careful you work, if you are inside or outside with it and so on. Some boats I have seen built with pre-primed, outside, lotsa scratches and took longer than planned, and in the end they were so rusty that it was better to sandblast completely. Another aspect is that when cutting and welding you leave a lot of uncleaned welds, sometimes in tight angles where it is difficult to clean/brush/grind. Sandblasting will clean that very nicely before painting over it. On a pre-primed and then handcleaned hull the paint may just cover shlag and loose stuff that will come off later leaving the naked steel exposed. Finally, an important argument is that sandblasting will give you just the right roughed surface for your paint - you'll never get that in the areas where you welded and then grinded. This means, that with a sandblasted hull it will be the same surface preparation and cleaning and paint everywhere - same surface, same seamless paint coat - using pre-primed will give you lots of different situations all over your hull and I am not sure this is a good thing. Having said that, building nice and clean without rust in a proper shed would of course be much nicer than watching my rusty hull under the rain in the garden waiting for Springtime ;-) I I could have had pre-prime full size sheets I would have gone for it. Sandblasting is about the worst job I have done in my life - I did four boatsI built myself plus a couple of others I helped on - and I am really not looking forward to doing it again... but at least I know that I get the best possible result in the end. Gerd the YAGO project at http://www.justmueller.com/boats/ --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Alfredo Nannetti" wrote: > The no answer to my question make me think my english is not > really understandable..... :( Was it so bed? ...I know it would be > better some language lesson.... > > I saw the new picture in the home page of the site with someone > cutting something on the pilothouse. > Thats the point: > - the boat is made of preprimed sheets > - for this reason you don't sunblast the hull (i think) > - but at the end of the costruction there are many places burnt > where the paint is gone off and becouse you are outside they are > probabily all rusty (maybe a lot) > - is it enough the phosphoros stuff (as the US guy said, sorry i cant > remember the name) to treat those parts? Is it good for the future > life of the boat? Did anybody tried it? > > My english is still a problem..... > Thanks > > Ciao ciao > alfredo (Italy) > > > > > > > - > > > My question is: after all the cuts and all the welds, and having > used the preprimed sheets, | 6384|6374|2004-12-17 06:26:38|denis buggy|Re: ??|dear ted have you used water blasting and how good is it , is it easier to organise than air. regards denis ----- Original Message ----- From: edward_stoneuk To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2004 9:04 PM Subject: [origamiboats] Re: ?? Alfredo, Your English is fine. When people use preprimed sheets they usually clean the weld and grind marks and then paint them with primer. I bought untreated steel then when I had fabricated the components, such as the hull halves, keels etc, took them out into a field first to rust off the mill scale, which is slow and therefore expensive to sand blast, then sand blasted and primed them before bringing them back into the barn to complete the construction. The sequence depends on the availability of pre-primed sheet or sand or water blasters and any constraints at your build site. Regards, Ted To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links a.. To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/ b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 6385|6374|2004-12-17 07:16:36|edward_stoneuk|Re: ??|Denis, No, I haven't used water blasting. The man that sand blasted my components said he had the kit to do it. One would need warm weather so that the steel dried quickly before the rust came. Water blasting could leave pools of water in the crevices, which is the last thing needed, although they could be blown away with compressed air. I have thought about using it to clean the welds and pieces of un-primed steel because I am building in a barn and don't want too much sand flying about over nearby machinery. Some primers are more tolerant of rust bloom than others. As Gerd says sand blasted or shot blasted steel is the best possible base to put paint on. There is a great deal of information on peoples experience with different paint treatments on the Metal Boat Society's web forum. Regards, Ted| 6386|6374|2004-12-17 12:37:36|John Jones|Re: ??|We water blast at 30000 to 40000 PSI and that takes 10 years of epoxy clear to white steel, we do add a small amount of sand or glass just to provide a holding patern for the paint to grip to. Water blasting is VERY loud and take a lot of energy to hold the gun but, on the up sine, the water drains off and does'nt effect someone else working on the other side of the boat. On the down side, you need a powerfull pump to create the needed pressure and the spray tips wear out quickly and so does the trigger valve if the user tries to regulate the flow using the trigger, it's "all the way on" or "all the way off". The motors needed are normally 3 phase electric and BIG or diesel. Make sure you have good drainage. Good luck John --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "denis buggy" wrote: > dear ted have you used water blasting and how good is it , is it easier to organise than air. regards denis > ----- Original Message ----- > From: edward_stoneuk > To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2004 9:04 PM > Subject: [origamiboats] Re: ?? > > > > Alfredo, > Your English is fine. When people use preprimed sheets they usually > clean the weld and grind marks and then paint them with primer. I > bought untreated steel then when I had fabricated the components, > such as the hull halves, keels etc, took them out into a field first > to rust off the mill scale, which is slow and therefore expensive to > sand blast, then sand blasted and primed them before bringing them > back into the barn to complete the construction. The sequence > depends on the availability of pre-primed sheet or sand or water > blasters and any constraints at your build site. > Regards, > Ted > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats- unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ADVERTISEMENT > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Yahoo! Groups Links > > a.. To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/ > > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 6387|6374|2004-12-17 16:54:39|fmichael graham|Re: ??|Alfredo: I'd suggest using zinc-coated plate & priming/painting the hull interior/exterior as usual. The coating will protect much of the plate from oxidation prior to painting. A grinder with a wire brush attachment will remove oxidation from exposed metal - weld areas - prior to coating with a primer. with wheel-abraded plate, the primer will more readily "stick" to the metal. If you search the group messages archives, you will find a lot of discussions on this topic. Regards, Mike Alfredo Nannetti wrote: The no answer to my question make me think my english is not really understandable..... :( Was it so bed? ...I know it would be better some language lesson.... I saw the new picture in the home page of the site with someone cutting something on the pilothouse. Thats the point: - the boat is made of preprimed sheets - for this reason you don't sunblast the hull (i think) - but at the end of the costruction there are many places burnt where the paint is gone off and becouse you are outside they are probabily all rusty (maybe a lot) - is it enough the phosphoros stuff (as the US guy said, sorry i cant remember the name) to treat those parts? Is it good for the future life of the boat? Did anybody tried it? My english is still a problem..... Thanks Ciao ciao alfredo (Italy) - My question is: after all the cuts and all the welds, and having used the preprimed sheets, To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT --------------------------------- Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. --------------------------------- Post your free ad now! Yahoo! Canada Personals [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]| 6388|6388|2004-12-17 17:03:51|denis buggy|Re: Re sandblasting and painting|dear John and Ted thank you both for your prompt replies . I use powerwashers however they are approx 3000 psi and have 7.5kw 3 phase motors running them. in order to go to 40,000 psi the requirement for current would exceed my 29kw quota with the electrical supply board and I do not know how to introduce sand into the pressure side of the pump to experiment if I could achieve a water sand mix even at 3000 psi it would be useful . re painting and sandblasting boats. some paints have serious ingredients for antifouling ( anything which is able to make little animals become dual gender and self destruct horribly is not sugar and spice ) which in airborne form is very dangerous , I spray 2 pack enamels which contain cyanide to help the paint attain its required hardness for the horrors of the bus wash and it is dangerous only while spraying or sanding down and anything you can suggest which keeps the stuff from being airborne will help . those of you who are tempted to spray indoors should remember that almost every single atom of overspray will stay in your shed for the next century and will be handled by you and yours during that time . do not let it in , I used to coachpaint years ago and I could put on a good thick coat of enamel for a pittance no overspray more paint on the coach for quarter the cost , no thinners no compressor no masking off half a bus + windows . the transfer rate for solids through sprayguns is approx 25/30% for suction /gravity guns and 65% for hvlp/ pressure pots the remainder is overspray in your shed in your eyes everywhere . if you use 2 pack on your boat remember cyanide is absorbed through the skin and never leaves the body you will need a suit and filtered air preferably from a screw compressor as reciprocating piston compressors have oil borne air and you should have at a minimum a hip mounted charcoal filter for your mask , you will need a serious amount of air to run a mask and gun in the old days we would hire a separate compressor and leave it up wind 100 ft away and feed the masks from that today you must use dedicated filters and compressors from big brand names who charge a fortune for their kit as you could not defend a claim against your equipment if it comes from a good but humble source . buy a good brush and take the missus out for the evening afterwards you will be able to afford it . from Ireland a happy Christmas to all in orgamiboats including our Moslem friends and those from outer space and even the Belgians Denis ----- Original Message ----- From: John Jones To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, December 17, 2004 5:37 PM Subject: [origamiboats] Re: ?? We water blast at 30000 to 40000 PSI and that takes 10 years of epoxy clear to white steel, we do add a small amount of sand or glass just to provide a holding patern for the paint to grip to. Water blasting is VERY loud and take a lot of energy to hold the gun but, on the up sine, the water drains off and does'nt effect someone else working on the other side of the boat. On the down side, you need a powerfull pump to create the needed pressure and the spray tips wear out quickly and so does the trigger valve if the user tries to regulate the flow using the trigger, it's "all the way on" or "all the way off". The motors needed are normally 3 phase electric and BIG or diesel. Make sure you have good drainage. Good luck John --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "denis buggy" wrote: > dear ted have you used water blasting and how good is it , is it easier to organise than air. regards denis > ----- Original Message ----- > From: edward_stoneuk > To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2004 9:04 PM > Subject: [origamiboats] Re: ?? > > > > Alfredo, > Your English is fine. When people use preprimed sheets they usually > clean the weld and grind marks and then paint them with primer. I > bought untreated steel then when I had fabricated the components, > such as the hull halves, keels etc, took them out into a field first > to rust off the mill scale, which is slow and therefore expensive to > sand blast, then sand blasted and primed them before bringing them > back into the barn to complete the construction. The sequence > depends on the availability of pre-primed sheet or sand or water > blasters and any constraints at your build site. > Regards, > Ted > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats- unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ADVERTISEMENT > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Yahoo! Groups Links > > a.. To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/ > > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links a.. To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/ b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 6389|6380|2004-12-17 19:28:18|squboat|Re: Steel hull|The hull has what looks like stainless rails added to the top unpainted twin keel and a 4cly mercedes diesel marine engine not installed - but would include if I can figure out how to send a photo I will| 6390|6360|2004-12-17 21:30:29|brentswain38|Re: GRP Origami boatbuilding|I've heard that the cost of building a fibreglass hull has increased by 22% in the last 6 months due to higher resin prices.While the price of steel has jumped drastically ,due to the Chinese buying up the world's supply, I hear that China's own production of steel has increased to the point that other steel exporting countries are now worried about China flooding the world market with their own production of steel, forcing the price very low. Brent Swain --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III" wrote: > > Preparing a Sandwich on a table : what's more natural ? > A sandwich with some GRP and some Foam on a table ? > http://www.kelsall.com/KSShtm > all that following the KISS principle and I cant but find a > certain resemblance with the " Origami " Group topic :-) > cause I sure see some familiarities :-) > Does anybody else knows of an interesting > Plastic Origami Link ? > Just curious > Old Ben | 6391|6374|2004-12-17 21:40:14|brentswain38|Re: ??|Alfredo The amount of paint burnt off , which you have to grind and prime,is tiny compared with having to sandblast the entire boat. Brent Swain --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Alfredo Nannetti" wrote: > The no answer to my question make me think my english is not > really understandable..... :( Was it so bed? ...I know it would be > better some language lesson.... > > I saw the new picture in the home page of the site with someone > cutting something on the pilothouse. > Thats the point: > - the boat is made of preprimed sheets > - for this reason you don't sunblast the hull (i think) > - but at the end of the costruction there are many places burnt > where the paint is gone off and becouse you are outside they are > probabily all rusty (maybe a lot) > - is it enough the phosphoros stuff (as the US guy said, sorry i cant > remember the name) to treat those parts? Is it good for the future > life of the boat? Did anybody tried it? > > My english is still a problem..... > Thanks > > Ciao ciao > alfredo (Italy) > > > > > > > - > > > My question is: after all the cuts and all the welds, and having > used the preprimed sheets, | 6392|6388|2004-12-17 21:42:25|brentswain38|Re: Re sandblasting and painting|Then wet blaster thatI saw in a rental shop just used a plastic pipe in a bucket of sand. It was lifted into the water jet by a venturi effect. Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "denis buggy" wrote: > dear John and Ted thank you both for your prompt replies . > I use powerwashers however they are approx 3000 psi and have 7.5kw 3 phase motors running them. > in order to go to 40,000 psi the requirement for current would exceed my 29kw quota with the electrical supply board and I do not know how to introduce sand into the pressure side of the pump to experiment if I could achieve a water sand mix even at 3000 psi it would be useful . re painting and sandblasting boats. > some paints have serious ingredients for antifouling ( anything which is able to make little animals become dual gender and self destruct horribly is not sugar and spice ) which in airborne form is very dangerous , > I spray 2 pack enamels which contain cyanide to help the paint attain its required hardness for the horrors of the bus wash and it is dangerous only while spraying or sanding down and anything you can suggest which keeps the stuff from being airborne will help . > those of you who are tempted to spray indoors should remember that almost every single atom of overspray will stay in your shed for the next century and will be handled by you and yours during that time . do not let it in , I used to coachpaint years ago and I could put on a good thick coat of enamel for a pittance no overspray more paint on the coach for quarter the cost , no thinners no compressor no masking off half a bus + windows . the transfer rate for solids through sprayguns is approx 25/30% for suction /gravity guns and 65% for hvlp/ pressure pots the remainder is overspray in your shed in your eyes everywhere . if you use 2 pack on your boat remember cyanide is absorbed through the skin and never leaves the body you will need a suit and filtered air preferably from a screw compressor as reciprocating piston compressors have oil borne air and you should have at a minimum a hip mounted charcoal filter for your mask , > you will need a serious amount of air to run a mask and gun in the old days we would hire a separate compressor and leave it up wind 100 ft away and feed the masks from that today you must use dedicated filters and compressors from big brand names who charge a fortune for their kit as you could not defend a claim against your equipment if it comes from a good but humble source . buy a good brush and take the missus out for the evening afterwards you will be able to afford it . from Ireland a happy Christmas to all in orgamiboats including our Moslem friends and those from outer space and even the Belgians Denis ----- Original Message ----- > From: John Jones > To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Friday, December 17, 2004 5:37 PM > Subject: [origamiboats] Re: ?? > > > > We water blast at 30000 to 40000 PSI and that takes 10 years of epoxy clear > to white steel, we do add a small amount of sand or glass just to provide a > holding patern for the paint to grip to. > Water blasting is VERY loud and take a lot of energy to hold the gun but, on > the up sine, the water drains off and does'nt effect someone else working on > the other side of the boat. > On the down side, you need a powerfull pump to create the needed pressure > and the spray tips wear out quickly and so does the trigger valve if the user > tries to regulate the flow using the trigger, it's "all the way on" or "all the way > off". The motors needed are normally 3 phase electric and BIG or diesel. > Make sure you have good drainage. > Good luck > John > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "denis buggy" wrote: > > dear ted have you used water blasting and how good is it , is it easier to > organise than air. regards denis > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: edward_stoneuk > > To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2004 9:04 PM > > Subject: [origamiboats] Re: ?? > > > > > > > > Alfredo, > > Your English is fine. When people use preprimed sheets they usually > > clean the weld and grind marks and then paint them with primer. I > > bought untreated steel then when I had fabricated the components, > > such as the hull halves, keels etc, took them out into a field first > > to rust off the mill scale, which is slow and therefore expensive to > > sand blast, then sand blasted and primed them before bringing them > > back into the barn to complete the construction. The sequence > > depends on the availability of pre-primed sheet or sand or water > > blasters and any constraints at your build site. > > Regards, > > Ted > > > > > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats- > unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > ADVERTISEMENT > > > > > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- -------------- > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > a.. To visit your group on the web, go to: > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/ > > > > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats- unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ADVERTISEMENT > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------- > Yahoo! Groups Links > > a.. To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/ > > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 6393|6374|2004-12-18 08:27:19|Alfredo Nannetti|Re: ??|First of all thanks to evrybody about the informations. And second thanks about my english...:))) Sorry if I didn't introduce myself. You are right Ben. Ok, my job consist in developing the use of steel in Italy for sailing boats. So I make advising for people that doesen't know what is a steel boat. Here in Italy nearly nobody use still. I also have a series of design for single chine boats. But I also teach how to avoide the "nautical market" (which is always too expensive) makeing a boat for the owner possibilities and not for what "they" say a boat should cost. I do belive that steel is perfect for self boat bilder but also for people that makes a carpenter build it for him. Important is that the owner knows what to do and where he could spend his money in the right way.. Just as Brent Swain does! And thats is from my own experience of selfboatbuilder with no money and the need to go. I'm not alone we are two and the name of our activity is Terra Nova. You can see our web site: www.terra-nova.it There is also a picture of us....I'm the younger (well...young....I'm 39...) Unfortunately is written in italian, but you can see the boats I work for. They are all made for ocean going porpouse I've build my own boat years ago, and, another three later. Since I've been in touch with the Origami groups, my brain is running faster...... Yes becouse I've always worked with traditional frames method, or with precut kit to assembly (but still with frames). So the BS boats i think are absolutely revolutionery!!! If you add this method plus a very simple boat, and considering that evry steel boat (it doesen't matter the size) is strongh enough for evrywhere...(I wouldn't say the same with fiberglass..) thats the solution for many people for sailing away! I'm also makeing studing about how it has to be built a steel boat not to create maintenance problems in the future. Before coating there are basic rules during the building. Here in Italy it seems to be totally unknown. Thats why I asked about the use of priprimed sheet and the matter of rusty spots. I sow so many steel boat rusting miserably just becouse of wrong methods used as if it was a fiberglass hull! Avoiding the sunblusting process the boat would cost even less...but I'm not sure abuot the result in the future... Here on the Origami, it seems that all this is already known and experimented!! And that for me is absoluting amazing!! :-0 In the end, Ben, I'm not on the adriatic sea but on the Tirrenian sea (opposit) very close to Pisa in the center (you know..the leaning tower...) and...well, about the girls...next time! eh eh eh, ciao Sugar! Ciao alfredo p.s. Here in Italy, Brent, about the steel increasing cost and chinese, we know (and pay) the same... > Hi Alfredo , > general questions are more difficult and longer to answer :-) > what kind of boat and construction do you have in mind ? > you live in Italy and I live in Belgium so we both have to > conform to the same EU rules , and they vary with size . > are you considering self-building , or have the hull and > superstructure probuild ( or are you a welder with some > experience ? ) sory to ask all those questions ,but it's > a lot easier to answer for a realistic and specific project. > you are lucky I do not answer questions about all the pretty > girls in your live , for wich you Italians have an outstanding > worldwide reputation ( si si ) > so tell us more about you ( the girls if you want to :-) > your experience in boating and the particulars or the requirements of > the boat you have in mind for your project. are you on the Adriatic > coastline ? in the north or in the south? I realy look forward to hear > more , just let us know more. > > Old Ben > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Alfredo Nannetti" > wrote: > > The no answer to my question make me think my english is not > > really understandable..... :( Was it so bed? ...I know it would be > > better some language lesson.... > > > > I saw the new picture in the home page of the site with someone > > cutting something on the pilothouse. Thats the point: - the boat is > > made of preprimed sheets - for this reason you don't sunblast the > > hull (i think) - but at the end of the costruction there are many > > places burnt where the paint is gone off and becouse you are outside > > they are probabily all rusty (maybe a lot) - is it enough the > > phosphoros stuff (as the US guy said, sorry i > cant > > remember the name) to treat those parts? Is it good for the future > > life of the boat? Did anybody tried it? > > > > My english is still a problem..... > > Thanks > > > > Ciao ciao > > alfredo (Italy) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > > > My question is: after all the cuts and all the welds, and having > > used the preprimed sheets, > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > --------------------~--> Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! > Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! > http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/YmoolB/TM > --------------------------------------------------------------------~- > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > | 6394|6374|2004-12-18 13:41:08|Gerd|Re: ??|Very nice Site, Alfredo! ;-) Still trying to make sense of the text, based on my knowledge of french I manage to sort of gather the general idea - enough to think that I might come and see you one of these days... Keep the good works up! Gerd The Yago Project at http://www.justmueller.com/boats/| 6395|6374|2004-12-18 14:38:28|Alex Christie|pre-primed steel|I've just been out to examine my hull, on which was preprimed prior to building. I have found some areas to be holding up quite well, while others are suffering, though not to an extreme (ie, it is just surface rust, not pitting). Still, I don't regret doing it, as the wheel-abrading and shot-blasting did remove mill-scale, and I shouldn't have to sandblast. Ideally it would have been good to do this boat under cover, but I do feel that with the right pre-priming this should not be an issue. I have seen other pre-primed boats and have noted that they had a thicker coat of pre-prime than my steel. In other words, I think I got a little less primer on mine than I should have, and evidently not all priming-jobs are equal! The spots where the welding burned the primer are very small, and in some cases are still retaining their paint without any rusting at all. I will still clean these up and retouch eventually, but it is convenient that I don't have to worry about those areas at this time. Quality control makes a big difference in a project, and I think for the "next boat" I will make it very clear to the company doing the pre-priming that I expect a higher build-up of primer. Don't let them just "dust" the steel with primer -- it should be properly covered. Also, my steel was heavily scratched up during handling, and this was before it came off the delivery truck. I will cope with the scratches as they are. Considering the expense (thanks in part to China's appetite for steel) of buying the steel, I would advise anyone starting a project to make it very clear to the company selling you the material that you expect the steel's coating to be in good shape when it arrives. Ciao, Alex| 6396|6360|2004-12-18 15:40:03|jim dorey|Re: GRP Origami boatbuilding|On Sat, 18 Dec 2004 02:29:30 -0000, brentswain38 wrote: > > I've heard that the cost of building a fibreglass hull has increased > by 22% in the last 6 months due to higher resin prices.While the > price of steel has jumped drastically ,due to the Chinese buying up > the world's supply, I hear that China's own production of steel has > increased to the point that other steel exporting countries are now > worried about China flooding the world market with their own > production of steel, forcing the price very low. > Brent Swain i finally remembered why they're buying so much steel, the millenium tower, it's hooooomongoos. -- Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/| 6397|6374|2004-12-18 15:50:51|jim_both|Re: pre-primed steel|Alex, the paint maunufacturer will provide data specifications for the primer which includes the correct film thickness for optimum performance. jim_both I have seen other pre-primed boats and have noted > that they had a thicker coat of pre-prime than my steel. In other > words, I think I got a little less primer on mine than I should have, > and evidently not all priming-jobs are equal! > >........................and I think for > the "next boat" I will make it very clear to the company doing the > pre-priming that I expect a higher build-up of primer. Don't let them > just "dust" the steel with primer -- it should be properly covered.| 6398|6398|2004-12-18 18:41:14|sae140|Perspex (Plexiglass) crazing|If you've ever wondered why some acrylic lights craze worse than others, or if you'd simply like to avoid crazing altogether - then checkout the perspexmanual.pdf file I've just uploaded into the files section. Apparently the secret is to anneal the acrylic after *any* machining is done to it, in order to relieve the stresses which cause the crazing years later. Annealing can be done in a domestic oven. Colin| 6399|6374|2004-12-18 19:33:41|Graeme|Re: ??|Alfredo nice site now I have the can,t read Italian problem OH WELL -----Original Message----- From: Gerd [mailto:yago@...] Sent: Friday, 17 December 2004 5:57 PM To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Subject: [origamiboats] Re: ?? Hi Alfredo Important point you make there... and there is no final answer. If you use pre-primed material, all depends on how fast and careful you work, if you are inside or outside with it and so on. Some boats I have seen built with pre-primed, outside, lotsa scratches and took longer than planned, and in the end they were so rusty that it was better to sandblast completely. Another aspect is that when cutting and welding you leave a lot of uncleaned welds, sometimes in tight angles where it is difficult to clean/brush/grind. Sandblasting will clean that very nicely before painting over it. On a pre-primed and then handcleaned hull the paint may just cover shlag and loose stuff that will come off later leaving the naked steel exposed. Finally, an important argument is that sandblasting will give you just the right roughed surface for your paint - you'll never get that in the areas where you welded and then grinded. This means, that with a sandblasted hull it will be the same surface preparation and cleaning and paint everywhere - same surface, same seamless paint coat - using pre-primed will give you lots of different situations all over your hull and I am not sure this is a good thing. Having said that, building nice and clean without rust in a proper shed would of course be much nicer than watching my rusty hull under the rain in the garden waiting for Springtime ;-) I I could have had pre-prime full size sheets I would have gone for it. Sandblasting is about the worst job I have done in my life - I did four boatsI built myself plus a couple of others I helped on - and I am really not looking forward to doing it again... but at least I know that I get the best possible result in the end. Gerd the YAGO project at http://www.justmueller.com/boats/ --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Alfredo Nannetti" wrote: > The no answer to my question make me think my english is not > really understandable..... :( Was it so bed? ...I know it would be > better some language lesson.... > > I saw the new picture in the home page of the site with someone > cutting something on the pilothouse. > Thats the point: > - the boat is made of preprimed sheets > - for this reason you don't sunblast the hull (i think) > - but at the end of the costruction there are many places burnt > where the paint is gone off and becouse you are outside they are > probabily all rusty (maybe a lot) > - is it enough the phosphoros stuff (as the US guy said, sorry i cant > remember the name) to treat those parts? Is it good for the future > life of the boat? Did anybody tried it? > > My english is still a problem..... > Thanks > > Ciao ciao > alfredo (Italy) > > > > > > > - > > > My question is: after all the cuts and all the welds, and having > used the preprimed sheets, To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links| 6400|6400|2004-12-19 04:14:47|Puck III|Re: The Italian Job|Hi Alfredo, thanks for the intro and letting us know about your business. I went over your site : http://www.terra-nova.it with much attention. My favorite there : " Sanpierota " la barche di Venezia . Did you ever sailed one and how does she performs ? I just saw your pic , a 39 year young Italian with enthousiasm, good to have a european youngster in here ; my eyesight and my hearing aren't so good anymore ( nothing realy is :-) but I still have some enthousiasm ; my Italian designed Cerruti blazer sure makes me look better :-) Many shipyards in Italy know metal boatbuilding very well, I sold some hull only designs in Italy . Superstructure and accomodation designed by an Italian artist that can turn even a square box into something sexy and appealing. About your Site and projects : Today a prospect buyer or even just a visitor is very spoiled and I fear that if he is not particularly interested in the designs you propose he will skip your site quickly without comming back . You need an eyecatcher and some interesting Links : some sugestions : http://tinyurl.com/7y3c7 I will send a pic to : http://tinyurl.com/68277 cause Dove III as the smallest boat on that list realy deserves that special attention and I know the Italians realy had national attention for some famous Polar expeditions . All you have to do is buy Brent's Book & the 26' plans , a bargainprice and one should give to Ceasar what's due to Ceasar . Further you will have to convert the plans to metric ( be very carefull with non metric gents , some of them use " Stones " others even still persist on driving on the wrong side of the road) A small sound cruiser like the BS 26' with a pretty deckhouse and accomodation design and a CEE approval sure will catch the deserved interest and can be sold with a profit . Personaly I think Italians will rather bye an Aluminum boat . Tell me what you think. Old Ben --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Alfredo Nannetti" wrote: > First of all thanks to evrybody about the informations. > And second thanks about my english...:))) > > Sorry if I didn't introduce myself. You are right Ben. > Ok, my job consist in developing the use of steel in Italy for sailing > boats. So I make advising for people that doesen't know what is a > steel boat. Here in Italy nearly nobody use still. I also have a series > of design for single chine boats. > But I also teach how to avoide the "nautical market" (which is > always too expensive) makeing a boat for the owner possibilities > and not for what "they" say a boat should cost. > I do belive that steel is perfect for self boat bilder but also for people > that makes a carpenter build it for him. Important is that the owner > knows what to do and where he could spend his money in the right > way.. > Just as Brent Swain does! > And thats is from my own experience of selfboatbuilder with no > money and the need to go. > I'm not alone we are two and the name of our activity is Terra Nova. > You can see our web site: www.terra-nova.it > There is also a picture of us....I'm the younger (well...young....I'm > 39...) > Unfortunately is written in italian, but you can see the boats I work > for. They are all made for ocean going porpouse > > I've build my own boat years ago, and, another three later. > Since I've been in touch with the Origami groups, my brain is > running faster...... Yes becouse I've always worked with traditional > frames method, or with precut kit to assembly (but still with > frames). So the BS boats i think are absolutely revolutionery!!! > If you add this method plus a very simple boat, and considering > that evry steel boat (it doesen't matter the size) is strongh enough > for evrywhere...(I wouldn't say the same with fiberglass..) thats the > solution for many people for sailing away! > > I'm also makeing studing about how it has to be built a steel boat > not to create maintenance problems in the future. > Before coating there are basic rules during the building. > Here in Italy it seems to be totally unknown. > Thats why I asked about the use of priprimed sheet and the matter > of rusty spots. I sow so many steel boat rusting miserably just > becouse of wrong methods used as if it was a fiberglass hull! > Avoiding the sunblusting process the boat would cost even > less...but I'm not sure abuot the result in the future... > > Here on the Origami, it seems that all this is already known and > experimented!! And that for me is absoluting amazing!! :-0 > > In the end, Ben, I'm not on the adriatic sea but on the Tirrenian sea > (opposit) very close to Pisa in the center (you know..the leaning > tower...) and...well, about the girls...next time! eh eh eh, ciao Sugar! > > Ciao > alfredo > p.s. Here in Italy, Brent, about the steel increasing cost and > chinese, we know (and pay) the same... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Alfredo , > > general questions are more difficult and longer to answer :-) > > what kind of boat and construction do you have in mind ? > > you live in Italy and I live in Belgium so we both have to > > conform to the same EU rules , and they vary with size . > > are you considering self-building , or have the hull and > > superstructure probuild ( or are you a welder with some > > experience ? ) sory to ask all those questions ,but it's > > a lot easier to answer for a realistic and specific project. > > you are lucky I do not answer questions about all the pretty > > girls in your live , for wich you Italians have an outstanding > > worldwide reputation ( si si ) > > so tell us more about you ( the girls if you want to :-) > > your experience in boating and the particulars or the requirements of > > the boat you have in mind for your project. are you on the Adriatic > > coastline ? in the north or in the south? I realy look forward to hear > > more , just let us know more. > > > > Old Ben > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Alfredo Nannetti" > > wrote: > > > The no answer to my question make me think my english is not > > > really understandable..... :( Was it so bed? ...I know it would be > > > better some language lesson.... > > > > > > I saw the new picture in the home page of the site with someone > > > cutting something on the pilothouse. Thats the point: - the boat is > > > made of preprimed sheets - for this reason you don't sunblast the > > > hull (i think) - but at the end of the costruction there are many > > > places burnt where the paint is gone off and becouse you are outside > > > they are probabily all rusty (maybe a lot) - is it enough the > > > phosphoros stuff (as the US guy said, sorry i > > cant > > > remember the name) to treat those parts? Is it good for the future > > > life of the boat? Did anybody tried it? > > > > > > My english is still a problem..... > > > Thanks > > > > > > Ciao ciao > > > alfredo (Italy) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > > > > > > My question is: after all the cuts and all the welds, and having > > > used the preprimed sheets, > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > --------------------~--> Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! > > Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! > > http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/YmoolB/TM > > --------------------------------------------------------------------~- > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > | 6401|6401|2004-12-19 08:56:24|carlmbentley|foreign language websites|there are tools you can use to translate a website into a language you can read. for example http://babelfish.altavista.com there are more but that is the one i use so it's the only one i know off the top of my head. if anyone finds a better one by all means post it. sadly the http://terra-nova.it site uses java after the first page so babelfish can't translate it, figures. give http://www.transpolair.com a shot though. the tool isn't perfect but you can read it. just type in the site you want, pick the language it's in (i have to guess alot) and the language you can read. enjoy -carl in florida 36 swain in progress| 6402|6367|2004-12-19 09:12:53|Sugar|Re: Watertight entrance door pics|Hi Ben, really looks clean. Very nice design ! :) Thanks for sharing the pics. Sugar -- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III" wrote: > > Alex your knowledge of the language of Molière is excellent > sure better than mine cause my mothertongue is Dutch. > A Capote , as used on a convertible car , better be watertight ; > so is the case with the Capote Anglaise , a must for all > lonely sailors . I leave more detailed explaining about that > UK invention to a UK friend :-) > > Thoughts for older Seamen > Old Ben > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Alex Christie > wrote: > > I noticed the caption on Ben's photo "Capotetanche", which is > "Capot > > Etanche" run together. Literally translated, "Capot" means > "Cover", or > > "Bonnet", and "Etanche" means "Weather-proof", so "Capot > Étanche" > > basically means "Weather-proof Hatch" in English. > > > > So Ben, your translation to "watertight entrance door" is right on > the > > money -- Your English is excellent! > > > > That hatch looks interesting -- although for any boat it would be > > adapted to it looks like it would need the same inset structure > as > > shown, and I don't know how that would fit on a pilot-house > typical to > > Brent's boats (without losing some interior space, but it would > work on > > a regular cabin. It is certainly better than the wrongly cherished > > "drop-boards" and sliding hatch we see on so many boats still. > > > > Salut, > > > > Alex > > > > > > On 14-Dec-04, at 10:42 PM, Puck III wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > You will find some selfexplaining pics how to build a > watertight > > > entrance door in the " Ben's Stuff " Folder in Photos ( please > give > > > me the correct name of the thing in english :-) , it slides out of > the > > > way and can also be kept open to keep the rain out and leave > air > > > in underway , easy to build for the better welder . > > > The pic 4 gives you the profile , the one in the pics was made > > > in aluminum and painted white . > > > Just to see what was build for race-boats sure has a place > > > on a cruising boat . > > > Give me some feedback > > > Old Ben > > > | 6403|6380|2004-12-19 13:08:56|jericoera|Re: Steel hull|Where are the pics of this hull?...and how much $$ for the hull? Carl --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "squboat" wrote: > > For sale 36Ft? bare steel hull built vancouver island > now located in Squamish brent swain design > open to offers. | 6404|6380|2004-12-19 13:11:11|jericoera|Re: Steel hull(questions)|Give me a call, Carl Mcintosh (604)485-0339 I have a couple questions Cheers Carl --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "squboat" wrote: > > The hull has what looks like stainless rails added to the top > unpainted > twin keel > and a 4cly mercedes diesel marine engine not installed - > but would include > if I can figure out how to send a photo I will | 6405|6401|2004-12-19 15:32:25|Alex Christie|Re: foreign language websites|Cari amici, buone notizie! (Dear friends, good news!) I think I solved the Italian translation problem for Alfredo's interesting site: I was able to use a command key on my Mac to by-pass the java-script and find out what the true URL for each page is. You can enter the hidden URL I found for the true home page for the site ( http://www.terra-nova.it/htm/home/home.htm ) into babelfish ( http://babelfish.altavista.com ) and get the translation. Ciao! Alex On 19-Dec-04, at 5:54 AM, carlmbentley wrote: > > > there are tools you can use to translate a website into a language > you can read. for example http://babelfish.altavista.com there are > more but that is the one i use so it's the only one i know off the > top of my head. if anyone finds a better one by all means post it. > > sadly the http://terra-nova.it site uses java after the first page so > babelfish can't translate it, figures. > give http://www.transpolair.com a shot though. the tool isn't perfect > but you can read it. just type in the site you want, pick the > language it's in (i have to guess alot) and the language you can read. > > enjoy > > -carl in florida > 36 swain in progress > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 6406|6401|2004-12-19 17:45:27|Puck III|Re: foreign language websites|Gracie mile , Ciao,ciao --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Alex Christie wrote: > Cari amici, buone notizie! (Dear friends, good news!) I think I solved > the Italian translation problem for Alfredo's interesting site: > > I was able to use a command key on my Mac to by-pass the java-script > and find out what the true URL for each page is. > > You can enter the hidden URL I found for the true home page for the > site ( http://www.terra-nova.it/htm/home/home.htm ) into babelfish ( > http://babelfish.altavista.com ) and get the translation. > > Ciao! > > Alex > > On 19-Dec-04, at 5:54 AM, carlmbentley wrote: > > > > > > > there are tools you can use to translate a website into a language > > you can read. for example http://babelfish.altavista.com there are > > more but that is the one i use so it's the only one i know off the > > top of my head. if anyone finds a better one by all means post it. > > > > sadly the http://terra-nova.it site uses java after the first page so > > babelfish can't translate it, figures. > > give http://www.transpolair.com a shot though. the tool isn't perfect > > but you can read it. just type in the site you want, pick the > > language it's in (i have to guess alot) and the language you can read. > > > > enjoy > > > > -carl in florida > > 36 swain in progress > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 6407|6407|2004-12-20 21:03:15|Puck III|Season's Greetings|Happy Christmas and best wishes for the New Year with Fair winds to all sailors :-) Old Ben| 6408|5988|2004-12-21 17:38:58|rbyzitter2001|Re: Engines, Engines and Engines|There are two different adds for marine diesels in the files section, one an Isuzu and the other a Perkins. Cheers. --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Courtney Thomas wrote: > As a reference point, I got a Perkins 4-108 with transmission, both in > excellent condition, for $1800 from Ebay. > > HTH > Courtney > > fenixrises wrote: > > > > > Hi seer, > > > > Years ago Ford/Lehman made a marinized version of a Ford tractor > > diesel. I think it was about 200 cubic inches and rated at 60hp. That > > may not seem like much but this particular engine had a factory > > option for a 200lb flywheel. This massive flywheel made the engine > > very smooth and evened out the power output significantly. I know of > > two different Roberts 55' 45,000lb boats that used these engines and > > said they worked great with plenty of power using a Borg-Warner > > Velvet Drive 2.91:1 transmission. For a 42' boat this is probably > > more power than you need but an old tractor motor of this type may be > > inexpensive and easy to find. > > > > I think a good old Perkins 4-108 would work very well and there are > > 1,000s floating around all over the world. > > > > Fred > > > > > > > > "seeratlas" wrote: > > > >>I know there's been some discussion about what kind of engines > >> > > people > > > >>are contemplating. I was wondering if anyone ever concluded that > >>they'd found a rebuilt old generator, or tractor, or auto diesel > >> > > that > > > >>turned out to work just fine. > >> > >>Seems to me that there are ton of Mercedes 2.4's and 3.0's out there > >>not to mention the isuzu, nissan and mitsu car and truck diesels > >> > > that > > > >>look like pretty good alternatives. ESPECIALLY when the swain boats > >>are using the skeg cooler setup so you don't have to fool with raw > >>seawater. > >> > >>I'm just starting to explore this avenue so if anyone has already > >> > > done > > > >>the research I'd appreciate hearing from you. An engine with > >>replaceable wet sleeves would seem ideal. > >> > >>I'm going to need about 45 to 60 continuous and would like to get > >> > > that > > > >>at 1800 to 2400 rpm which tells me I'm looking for a > >> > > car/truck/tractor > > > >>diesel road rated at something like 75 hp or better. > >> > >>Again, any thoughts appreciated. I'm not too worried about worldwide > >>port availability of spares as I plan on taking the reasonably > >>forseeable ones with me. > >> > >>as always, thanks in advance. > >> > >>seer > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats- unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > s/v Mutiny > Rhodes Bounty II > lying Oriental, NC > WDB5619 | 6409|6409|2004-12-21 17:48:08|rcjoyner|smaller orgami boats|does anyone know of plans for smaller orgami boats like 16 to 24 foot inboard or outboard powered?? not sailboats - just power boats. thanks,| 6410|6398|2004-12-21 20:08:26|brentswain38|Re: Perspex (Plexiglass) crazing|Some thinners, while they don't appear to affect the plexi initially ( Laquer thinner) will cause severe crazing overnight. Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "sae140" wrote: > > If you've ever wondered why some acrylic lights craze worse than > others, or if you'd simply like to avoid crazing altogether - then > checkout the perspexmanual.pdf file I've just uploaded into the files > section. > > Apparently the secret is to anneal the acrylic after *any* machining > is done to it, in order to relieve the stresses which cause the > crazing years later. Annealing can be done in a domestic oven. > > Colin | 6411|6409|2004-12-21 20:14:37|brentswain38|Re: smaller orgami boats|Highliner aluminium built dozens of them in the 60's and 70's .Plans must be around somewhere. Any hard chine powerboat can be built using origami techniques in aluminium. Just take the patterns off an existing boat. Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "rcjoyner" wrote: > > does anyone know of plans for smaller orgami boats like 16 to 24 foot > inboard or outboard powered?? > > not sailboats - just power boats. > > thanks, | 6412|6398|2004-12-22 05:12:37|sae140|Re: Perspex (Plexiglass) crazing|Sounds like acetone or a near relative .... There's a list of chemicals and their reactivity with Acrylic in the .pdf file I uploaded. Brent - I know you have limited computer facilities. I could extract the info in plain text and email it to you if it's of any interest. Colin --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "brentswain38" wrote: > > Some thinners, while they don't appear to affect the plexi initially > ( Laquer thinner) will cause severe crazing overnight. > Brent > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "sae140" > wrote: > > > > If you've ever wondered why some acrylic lights craze worse than > > others, or if you'd simply like to avoid crazing altogether - then > > checkout the perspexmanual.pdf file I've just uploaded into the > files > > section. > > > > Apparently the secret is to anneal the acrylic after *any* > machining > > is done to it, in order to relieve the stresses which cause the > > crazing years later. Annealing can be done in a domestic oven. > > > > Colin | 6413|6413|2004-12-22 05:17:34|sae140|Boat for sale|Not an origami, but there's a 46 footer aground in Florida (courtesy of Francis) for silly money. See: http://www.boatsandoutboards.co.uk/view/F52348/| 6414|6319|2004-12-22 08:59:27|carlmbentley|tankage locations|thanks for the ballast response, glad i didn't order 5700 pounds, i would have kicked myself over that for years. onto my next question, i looked this one up before hand and can't seem to find anything. anyone have any opinions on tankage locations, i'm planning on using the area between my keels and a "small" set of saddles on both sides of my engine. was wondering what would be best for what i.e. water in keel tank, diesel in saddles or other way. so far i have one vote for diesel in saddles so that i can gravity feed engine if i need to. although i'm not sure that's even possible i haven't done the crash course in diesel engines yet, that's next month. contributing factors are having to paint the watertank, condensation (would there be any below the water line) and sumps, filters, and what have you. of course i'm open for any other suggestions on locations of tanks or other solutions. i just need fresh water and diesel tankage and would like to carry more water than fuel if a choice of that nature is required. thanks again -carl bentley building a 36 in florida --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "kingsknight4life" wrote: > Carl. > You need 4500 lbs of lead for a 36ft. twin keel. The higher number > comes from the weight of the steel in the keel, that also acts as > ballast. I know because I asked Brent the same question a couple of > weeks ago. > he is finishing welding in fuel tanks in my keels. I have the | 6415|6319|2004-12-22 15:34:12|kingsknight4life|Re: tankage locations|Carl Again I'm following brent's lead. I'm using the area between my twinkeels as a 100 gal. water tank and the area above the ballast (ie. in the keels) as 2 35 gal. diesel tanks. Using the area between keels as tanksaage strengthens the boat and keeps your weight down low and out of the ends of the boat. I will be installing a day tank too. As far as condensation I'm looking very seriously at using a paint like "supertherm" to insulate below the wateline and in tanks. Merry Christmas and happy boatbuilding Rowland --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "carlmbentley" wrote: > > thanks for the ballast response, ....> anyone have any opinions on tankage locations,??....of course i'm open for any other suggestions on > locations of tanks or other solutions. i just need fresh water and > diesel tankage and would like to carry more water than fuel if a > choice of that nature is required. thanks again > > > -carl bentley > building a 36 in florida > > > > | 6416|6416|2004-12-22 15:54:18|wiwrobod|Trawler typeorigami boat.|I wonder if any of you member has drawing or ide for boat built for the purpose of motoring.We oldre peopel do not hawe the fitnes of sailing.In my junger days i did ocean racing but time goes on. Please mail me. Gosta Strom Sweden| 6417|6417|2004-12-22 17:06:18|brentswain38|Florida boats|Harold Metcalf at redan@... wants to talk to anyone building a boat of my design in Florida. Brent Swain| 6418|6319|2004-12-22 17:14:05|brentswain38|Re: tankage locations|I use a ten gallon stainless day tank at the front end of the cockpit as a gravity feed tank, eliminating dependence on a lift pump. Put a cup at the bottom end to collect any water , with a drain tap on the bottom of it.It can be filled with a permanently mounted barrel pump from the keel tanks. Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "carlmbentley" wrote: > > thanks for the ballast response, glad i didn't order 5700 pounds, i > would have kicked myself over that for years. onto my next question, > i looked this one up before hand and can't seem to find anything. > > anyone have any opinions on tankage locations, i'm planning on using > the area between my keels and a "small" set of saddles on both sides > of my engine. was wondering what would be best for what i.e. water in > keel tank, diesel in saddles or other way. so far i have one vote for > diesel in saddles so that i can gravity feed engine if i need to. > although i'm not sure that's even possible i haven't done the crash > course in diesel engines yet, that's next month. > contributing factors are having to paint the watertank, condensation > (would there be any below the water line) and sumps, filters, and > what have you. of course i'm open for any other suggestions on > locations of tanks or other solutions. i just need fresh water and > diesel tankage and would like to carry more water than fuel if a > choice of that nature is required. thanks again > > > -carl bentley > building a 36 in florida > > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "kingsknight4life" > wrote: > > > Carl. > > You need 4500 lbs of lead for a 36ft. twin keel. The higher number > > comes from the weight of the steel in the keel, that also acts as > > ballast. I know because I asked Brent the same question a couple of > > weeks ago. > > > he is finishing welding in fuel tanks in my keels. I have the | 6419|6398|2004-12-22 17:15:49|brentswain38|Re: Perspex (Plexiglass) crazing|A friend who worked in the plasics business for many years tells me that acetone is the ONLY SAFE thing to clean plexi with. Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "sae140" wrote: > > Sounds like acetone or a near relative .... > > There's a list of chemicals and their reactivity with Acrylic in > the .pdf file I uploaded. > > Brent - I know you have limited computer facilities. I could extract > the info in plain text and email it to you if it's of any interest. > Colin > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "brentswain38" > wrote: > > > > Some thinners, while they don't appear to affect the plexi > initially > > ( Laquer thinner) will cause severe crazing overnight. > > Brent > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "sae140" > > wrote: > > > > > > If you've ever wondered why some acrylic lights craze worse than > > > others, or if you'd simply like to avoid crazing altogether - > then > > > checkout the perspexmanual.pdf file I've just uploaded into the > > files > > > section. > > > > > > Apparently the secret is to anneal the acrylic after *any* > > machining > > > is done to it, in order to relieve the stresses which cause the > > > crazing years later. Annealing can be done in a domestic oven. > > > > > > Colin | 6420|6417|2004-12-22 20:43:39|carlmbentley|Re: Florida boats|i'm down here in florida, but i'm a novice builder. i'll send him an e-mail to invite him over and to warn him i'm a newbie. -carl bentley --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "brentswain38" wrote: > > Harold Metcalf at redan@g... wants to talk to anyone building a > boat of my design in Florida. > Brent Swain | 6421|6417|2004-12-22 23:47:56|carlmbentley|Re: Florida boats|that e-mail address bounced back "Remote host said: 550 is not a valid mailbox" i swapped the "@" for a "#" so that yahoo wouldn't hide the address. i didn't try to send it to that ;) > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "brentswain38" > wrote: > > > > Harold Metcalf at redan@g... wants to talk to anyone building a > > boat of my design in Florida. > > Brent Swain | 6422|6422|2004-12-23 00:01:33|carlmbentley|engine requirements|ok, yet another question, this one is more theoretical so everyone one can weigh in. after an hour with a paint scrapper and a wire brush i was able to learn that i have a 4cyl 20hp 1800rpm diesel generator, a westerbeke 15kw. is this a viable engine for a 36 twin keel or do i need to start shopping ?? there is some debate as to if it's really only 20hp but since the plaque says 20hp we'll assume it is until proven wrong. i had planned to yank the coil off get a different bell housing, an old borg warner transmission and so on. this is all new to me so any input is welcome. maybe i'm a good candidate for the electric engine concept, but i'd need a lot more batteries. -carl bentley| 6423|6416|2004-12-23 05:12:15|Puck III|Re: Trawler typeorigami boat.|I have a lot of fine drawings for all sizes and boattypes please be more precise in your requirements list or designgoal : what kind of boat ? for what kind of sailing in what area ? for how big a party ? the more precise your wishlist the better we can assist you . Please give us more info. Old Ben --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "wiwrobod" wrote: > > I wonder if any of you member has drawing or ide for boat built for > the purpose of motoring.We oldre peopel do not hawe the fitnes of > sailing.In my junger days i did ocean racing but time goes on. > > Please mail me. > > Gosta Strom > Sweden | 6424|6422|2004-12-23 09:20:25|Robert Miller|Re: engine requirements|I'll weigh in here. The old rule of thumb was 1 HP per tonne displacement. My own boat, designed in 1931, is powered as such. She's a good boat and we use power rather little. That said, there have been times that I would have liked a bit more. Nowadays, people will most often want more than that. More than about 4 HP per tonne displacement, however, cannot effectively be used by a displacement hull. You will find lots of modern production boats that have engines larger than this. If so, they are unnecessarily carrying more weight and expense in that engine than can be used. What they really need (and often don't have) is a larger diameter prop, pitched appropriately. One often sees boats with overly large engines coupled to overly small propellers. I don't know the displacement of your vessel, but the guidelines above should be useful. If you are anywhere near the 4HP per tonne displacement mark, your engine is more than adequate. Hopefully your prop is then properly sized and pitched. A really useful book on this topic, in my opinion, is Dave Gerr's "Propeller Handbook". Best, Robert On Dec 23, 2004, at 12:01 AM, carlmbentley wrote: > > > ok, yet another question, this one is more theoretical so everyone > one can weigh in. > after an hour with a paint scrapper and a wire brush i was able to > learn that i have a 4cyl 20hp 1800rpm diesel generator, a westerbeke > 15kw. is this a viable engine for a 36 twin keel or do i need to > start shopping ?? > there is some debate as to if it's really only 20hp but since the > plaque says 20hp we'll assume it is until proven wrong. > i had planned to yank the coil off get a different bell housing, an > old borg warner transmission and so on. this is all new to me so any > input is welcome. > > maybe i'm a good candidate for the electric engine concept, but i'd > need a lot more batteries. > > -carl bentley > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > | 6425|6422|2004-12-24 01:21:32|brentswain38|Re: engine requirements|Carl That engine wil work fine for a 36. The first 36 I built back in 1981 used a 10 hp diesel for the first few years and a trip to Mexico and back. Another has gotten along just fine with 20 hp since 1982.While an extra knot or two will always be desired and never enough, no one got in any trouble with ten hp, and it's fuel consumption will be tiny . Bourg warner trannys are reliable , but long and they tend to make the engine stick out a long way into the interior.Maybe the 20 hp is short enough. The best is a twin disc 360. Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "carlmbentley" wrote: > > ok, yet another question, this one is more theoretical so everyone > one can weigh in. > after an hour with a paint scrapper and a wire brush i was able to > learn that i have a 4cyl 20hp 1800rpm diesel generator, a westerbeke > 15kw. is this a viable engine for a 36 twin keel or do i need to > start shopping ?? > there is some debate as to if it's really only 20hp but since the > plaque says 20hp we'll assume it is until proven wrong. > i had planned to yank the coil off get a different bell housing, an > old borg warner transmission and so on. this is all new to me so any > input is welcome. > > maybe i'm a good candidate for the electric engine concept, but i'd > need a lot more batteries. > > -carl bentley | 6426|6417|2004-12-24 03:10:48|brentswain38|Re: Florida boats|I believe it was redan@.... I'll give him your email addressand he can contact you. Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "carlmbentley" wrote: > > that e-mail address bounced back > > "Remote host said: 550 is not a valid mailbox" > > i swapped the "@" for a "#" so that yahoo wouldn't hide the address. > i didn't try to send it to that ;) > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "brentswain38" > > wrote: > > > > > > Harold Metcalf at redan@g... wants to talk to anyone building a > > > boat of my design in Florida. > > > Brent Swain | 6427|6398|2004-12-24 06:14:34|sae140|Re: Perspex (Plexiglass) crazing|Hi Brent Suggest you don't try this yourself - acetone is guaranteed to *dissolve* plexiglass on contact. Even the fumes will knacker the surface - likewise the lacquer thinner you mentioned earlier. Checkout: http://www.ceebaileys.com/care.htm http://www.soaridaho.com/Schreder/ Construction/Canopy_Crack_Repair.html Afaik - mild soapy water etc is the only safe stuff to clean it with. Happy festive to all Colin --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "brentswain38" wrote: > > > A friend who worked in the plasics business for many years tells me > that acetone is the ONLY SAFE thing to clean plexi with. > Brent > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "sae140" > wrote: > > > > Sounds like acetone or a near relative .... > > > > There's a list of chemicals and their reactivity with Acrylic in > > the .pdf file I uploaded. > > > > Brent - I know you have limited computer facilities. I could > extract > > the info in plain text and email it to you if it's of any > interest. > > Colin > > > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "brentswain38" > > wrote: > > > > > > Some thinners, while they don't appear to affect the plexi > > initially > > > ( Laquer thinner) will cause severe crazing overnight. > > > Brent > > > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "sae140" > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > If you've ever wondered why some acrylic lights craze worse > than > > > > others, or if you'd simply like to avoid crazing altogether - > > then > > > > checkout the perspexmanual.pdf file I've just uploaded into the > > > files > > > > section. > > > > > > > > Apparently the secret is to anneal the acrylic after *any* > > > machining > > > > is done to it, in order to relieve the stresses which cause the > > > > crazing years later. Annealing can be done in a domestic oven. > > > > > > > > Colin | 6428|6398|2004-12-24 14:22:31|g�sta str�m|Re: Perspex (Plexiglass) crazing|Hello and mery christmas. I suggest you use Lexan a typ of plexi near unbrakable and easy to work,a have not fond any crasing yet. Yes it cost a bit more but wont brake. Gosta. >From: "brentswain38" >Reply-To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com >To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com >Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Perspex (Plexiglass) crazing >Date: Wed, 22 Dec 2004 22:15:43 -0000 > _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]| 6429|6398|2004-12-24 21:12:09|brentswain38|Re: Perspex (Plexiglass) crazing|Lexan fogs up in about three years and is then impossible to see thru, unless you re-polish it regularly. If you use the hard surface type, the hard surface peels off like old varnish in a short time. It also tends to crack around the bolt holes if you don't give it a lot of clearance. Sometimes it cracks arount the bolt holes regardless of how much clearance you give it.It's great for letting light in thru ports you don't need to see thru. It is polycarbonate, a completely different material from plexi, which is acrylic, the most UV resistant plastic invented so far. Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "gösta ström" wrote: > Hello and mery christmas. > I suggest you use Lexan a typ of plexi near unbrakable and easy to work,a > have not fond any crasing yet. Yes it cost a bit more but wont brake. > Gosta. > >From: "brentswain38" > >Reply-To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > >To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > >Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Perspex (Plexiglass) crazing > >Date: Wed, 22 Dec 2004 22:15:43 -0000 > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today it's FREE! > http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 6430|6430|2004-12-25 07:56:53|..|Happy Christmas|Hi all, It is 12-30 in England It will soon be time for Christmas dinner, hope you all enjoy you dinner later. You have to be careful drilling Polycarbonate, as the drill can start small cracks which will grow over time, it is also a good idea to stress relive after drilling. Best wish Geoff Cheshire England --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.821 / Virus Database: 559 - Release Date: 21/12/2004| 6431|6431|2004-12-27 08:11:25|Graeme|Anyone interested in sydney hobart race a live tracker|http://rolexsydneyhobart.com/yacht_tracker.asp?key=522 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]| 6432|22|2004-12-27 14:05:44|origamiboats@yahoogroups.com|New file uploaded to origamiboats |Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the origamiboats group. File : /ArticOdyssey1.jpg Uploaded by : ben_azo Description : Link in Links - a fine read You can access this file at the URL: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/files/ArticOdyssey1.jpg To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit: http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files Regards, ben_azo | 6433|6398|2004-12-28 17:11:14|Gary|Re: Perspex (Plexiglass) crazing|Goo Gone is great for plexiglass. I used it to remove adhesive from the plexiglass coating once peeled off. Try your local chandlery. Gary --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "sae140" wrote: > > Hi Brent > > Suggest you don't try this yourself - acetone is guaranteed to > *dissolve* plexiglass on contact. Even the fumes will knacker the > surface - likewise the lacquer thinner you mentioned earlier. > > Checkout: > http://www.ceebaileys.com/care.htm > > http://www.soaridaho.com/Schreder/ > Construction/Canopy_Crack_Repair.html > > Afaik - mild soapy water etc is the only safe stuff to clean it with. > > Happy festive to all > > Colin > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "brentswain38" > wrote: > > > > > > A friend who worked in the plasics business for many years tells me > > that acetone is the ONLY SAFE thing to clean plexi with. > > Brent > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "sae140" > > wrote: > > > > > > Sounds like acetone or a near relative .... > > > > > > There's a list of chemicals and their reactivity with Acrylic in > > > the .pdf file I uploaded. > > > > > > Brent - I know you have limited computer facilities. I could > > extract > > > the info in plain text and email it to you if it's of any > > interest. > > > Colin > > > > > > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "brentswain38" > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Some thinners, while they don't appear to affect the plexi > > > initially > > > > ( Laquer thinner) will cause severe crazing overnight. > > > > Brent > > > > > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "sae140" > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > If you've ever wondered why some acrylic lights craze worse > > than > > > > > others, or if you'd simply like to avoid crazing altogether - > > > then > > > > > checkout the perspexmanual.pdf file I've just uploaded into > the > > > > files > > > > > section. > > > > > > > > > > Apparently the secret is to anneal the acrylic after *any* > > > > machining > > > > > is done to it, in order to relieve the stresses which cause > the > > > > > crazing years later. Annealing can be done in a domestic > oven. > > > > > > > > > > Colin | 6434|6434|2004-12-29 00:16:52|dove2steel|red oxide paint|Would red oxide paint be an option for priming on a steel hull?I'm new to the world of steel.| 6435|6434|2004-12-29 05:29:34|sae140|Re: red oxide paint|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "dove2steel" wrote: > > Would red oxide paint be an option for priming on a steel hull? I'm > new to the world of steel. Before discussing coatings, it's quite useful to have an appreciation of the rusting process itself. There's a good description of this at: http://www.metalwebnews.com/howto/rust/rust.html The protection of steel from rusting falls into 2 different types - physical protection by the application of a barrier coating to prevent oxygen and moisture from reaching the steel - and electrolytic protection by the application of a zinc coating to the surface of the steel. The electrolytic protection will continue to work even if the barrier is breached, but the physical coating (only) barrier will not. The use of red oxide falls into the physical coating barrier category, and will be 'ok-ish' providing the steel is prepared by (preferably) grit-blasting beforehand to remove all traces of surface rust, or alternatively, the surface can be treated with phosphoric acid or a tannic acid compound (Fertan). The article above explains how this stuff works. Although red oxide is an economical and traditional primer, these days it is difficult to justify it's use in a saltwater environment when there are so many far superior epoxy-based paints available. However, red oxide is still widely used on barges and narrow-boats destined to operate in fresh water, where the rusting process is less aggressive. Hope this helps Colin| 6436|6398|2004-12-29 05:34:10|sae140|Re: Perspex (Plexiglass) crazing|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Gary" wrote: > > Goo Gone is great for plexiglass. I used it to remove adhesive from > the plexiglass coating once peeled off. > > Try your local chandlery. > > Gary Hi Gary any idea what the 'active ingredient' is ? The sneaky thing about acrylic (so I'm told), is that it can be exposed to some chemicals without showing any immediate changes - then years later the crazing starts. How long ago did you use this stuff ? Regards Colin| 6437|6437|2004-12-29 08:53:30|Charles Leblanc|Looking for boat plan|Hi everybody. I used to follow this list last year but unfortunatly I have stopped reading the post because of my new workload and now I am completly out of sync with all the threads. I know that some origami boat designers/naval architect are following the list and this message is aimed at them I am looking to Purchase one or many plan for building a large workboat. I would favor a boat with a wider beam than usual because of the stability improvement as well as the increase in tonnage. I am looking to install a medium size diesel engine inboard for propulsion (250-600hp) and a diesel generator for electricity production. Deck space and cargo hold are important and the boat should be ocean capable. I was initially looking to get a used 64' x 20' boat with a 10' draft but I could also be interested in a smaller boat (50' and up). I would favor a fast building origami boat. Since I am able to get access to marine grade aluminium plated, I would consider aluminium hull as well as steel. You are welcome to reply privatly to leblancc_99@.... I will monitor the list on a daily basis Thank you and happy holidays Charles Leblanc| 6438|22|2004-12-29 09:53:06|origamiboats@yahoogroups.com|New file uploaded to origamiboats |Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the origamiboats group. File : /steelcat1.jpg Uploaded by : ben_azo Description : for Scott You can access this file at the URL: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/files/steelcat1.jpg To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit: http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files Regards, ben_azo | 6439|6439|2004-12-29 10:09:30|Puck III|Steel Cat|Hi Scott , I hope you can read the text now in Files , you can download it fully cause the file is to big to see the drawing in total in here and reprint it in the format you want I see no problem redesigning it for Origami , even hulls made of one sheet as long as the unfolded steel or aluminumplate is not exceeding 12m x 3m wish is the max for the cutter here; wich would bring us back to a " Gougeon " type of big Tornado hull , planing or not . Extreemly fast building time for people having the tooling . Sory I had no time to rescan that A3 page , I sugest you download it , cause this big file doesn't realy belong in here. Enjoy and let your imagination........... Old Ben| 6440|6434|2004-12-29 16:17:25|brentswain38|Re: red oxide paint|Red oxide is an abysmally useless primer. Most are Vinyl based so nothing else but Vinyl will stick to it.Get an inorganic zinc primer. Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "sae140" wrote: > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "dove2steel" > wrote: > > > > Would red oxide paint be an option for priming on a steel hull? > I'm > > new to the world of steel. > > Before discussing coatings, it's quite useful to have an appreciation > of the rusting process itself. There's a good description of this > at: http://www.metalwebnews.com/howto/rust/rust.html > > The protection of steel from rusting falls into 2 different types - > physical protection by the application of a barrier coating to > prevent oxygen and moisture from reaching the steel - and > electrolytic protection by the application of a zinc coating to the > surface of the steel. The electrolytic protection will continue to > work even if the barrier is breached, but the physical coating (only) > barrier will not. > > The use of red oxide falls into the physical coating barrier > category, and will be 'ok-ish' providing the steel is prepared by > (preferably) grit-blasting beforehand to remove all traces of surface > rust, or alternatively, the surface can be treated with phosphoric > acid or a tannic acid compound (Fertan). The article above explains > how this stuff works. > > Although red oxide is an economical and traditional primer, these > days it is difficult to justify it's use in a saltwater environment > when there are so many far superior epoxy-based paints available. > However, red oxide is still widely used on barges and narrow-boats > destined to operate in fresh water, where the rusting process is less > aggressive. > > Hope this helps > > Colin | 6441|6441|2004-12-29 17:24:20|Puck III|Cat & Tri|2 more pics for Scott & Gosta in Photos Old Ben| 6442|6439|2004-12-29 18:20:01|audeojude|Re: Steel Cat|got it :) still cant read the small print but the picrtures come thru fine. scott --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III" wrote: > > Hi Scott , I hope you can read the text now in Files , > you can download it fully cause the file is to big to see the > drawing in total in here and reprint it in the format you want > I see no problem redesigning it for Origami , even hulls made > of one sheet as long as the unfolded steel or aluminumplate > is not exceeding 12m x 3m wish is the max for the cutter here; > wich would bring us back to a " Gougeon " type of big > Tornado hull , planing or not . > Extreemly fast building time for people having the tooling . > Sory I had no time to rescan that A3 page , I sugest you > download it , cause this big file doesn't realy belong in here. > Enjoy and let your imagination........... > Old Ben | 6443|6441|2004-12-29 18:23:12|audeojude|Re: Cat & Tri|i like the aluminum fishing cat :) cool boat. :) looks like real shallow draft also. scott --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III" wrote: > > 2 more pics for Scott & Gosta in Photos > Old Ben | 6444|6441|2004-12-29 22:30:26|tronfixr|Re: Cat & Tri|Ditto... Do you have any other info Ben? Mike --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "audeojude" wrote: > > i like the aluminum fishing cat :) cool boat. :) looks like real > shallow draft also. > scott > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III" wrote: > > > > 2 more pics for Scott & Gosta in Photos > > Old Ben | 6445|6441|2004-12-29 22:52:34|Puck III|Re: Cat & Tri|Sure , what do you want ? Old Ben :-) --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "tronfixr" wrote: > > Ditto... > > Do you have any other info Ben? > > Mike > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "audeojude" wrote: > > > > i like the aluminum fishing cat :) cool boat. :) looks like real > > shallow draft also. > > scott > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III" wrote: > > > > > > 2 more pics for Scott & Gosta in Photos > > > Old Ben | 6446|6441|2004-12-29 23:08:24|tronfixr|Re: Cat & Tri|I did a web search and came up dry. A name or web site maybe? I can't read the writing. Thanks! Mike --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III" wrote: > > Sure , what do you want ? > Old Ben :-) > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "tronfixr" > wrote: > > > > Ditto... > > > > Do you have any other info Ben? > > > > Mike > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "audeojude" > wrote: > > > > > > i like the aluminum fishing cat :) cool boat. :) looks like real > > > shallow draft also. > > > scott > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III" > wrote: > > > > > > > > 2 more pics for Scott & Gosta in Photos > > > > Old Ben | 6447|6441|2004-12-29 23:43:33|Puck III|Re: Cat & Tri|This is realy old info from the days handwriting was usual on plans :-) I must have an original somewhere but the scan was made from an A3 wich was already a reduction . I lately had some old plans digitalised for Mac & PC, 40 Euro for 1 larger sheet ( electronicaly cleaning included ) sure aint a bargain price ! I think all you can do is download it from Files ( the File is complete ) print it on your A4 printer and have the sheet enlarged in a Copy Center with an A3 or larger printer , for me the A3 format if fine , if you have money to spend go for the size you are happy with:-) Old Ben --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "tronfixr" wrote: > > I did a web search and came up dry. A name or web site maybe? I can't > read the writing. > > Thanks! > > Mike > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III" wrote: > > > > Sure , what do you want ? > > Old Ben :-) > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "tronfixr" > > wrote: > > > > > > Ditto... > > > > > > Do you have any other info Ben? > > > > > > Mike > > > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "audeojude" > > wrote: > > > > > > > > i like the aluminum fishing cat :) cool boat. :) looks like real > > > > shallow draft also. > > > > scott > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III" > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > 2 more pics for Scott & Gosta in Photos > > > > > Old Ben | 6448|6441|2004-12-30 09:19:38|audeojude|Re: Cat & Tri|yep, you work with what you got :) been there done that :) scott --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III" wrote: > > This is realy old info from > the days handwriting was usual on plans :-) > I must have an original somewhere but the scan was made > from an A3 wich was already a reduction . > I lately had some old plans digitalised for Mac & PC, > 40 Euro for 1 larger sheet ( electronicaly cleaning included ) > sure aint a bargain price ! > I think all you can do is download it from Files ( the File > is complete ) print it on your A4 printer and have the sheet > enlarged in a Copy Center with an A3 or larger printer , > for me the A3 format if fine , if you have money to spend > go for the size you are happy with:-) > Old Ben > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "tronfixr" > wrote: > > > > I did a web search and came up dry. A name or web site > maybe? I can't > > read the writing. > > > > Thanks! > > > > Mike > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III" > wrote: > > > > > > Sure , what do you want ? > > > Old Ben :-) > > > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "tronfixr" > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Ditto... > > > > > > > > Do you have any other info Ben? > > > > > > > > Mike > > > > > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "audeojude" > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > i like the aluminum fishing cat :) cool boat. :) looks like > real > > > > > shallow draft also. > > > > > scott > > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III" > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > 2 more pics for Scott & Gosta in Photos > > > > > > Old Ben | 6449|6413|2004-12-30 09:24:34|audeojude|Re: Boat for sale|does anyone know anything about this boat. I have emailed the broker and got back some pictures and list of equipment but they skated around the damage and were not specific at all. scott I'm very interested in it. My budget took a massive hit this year and this will push back my building a boat for a while. This looks like a possible alternative to me. --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "sae140" wrote: > > Not an origami, but there's a 46 footer aground in Florida (courtesy > of Francis) for silly money. > See: http://www.boatsandoutboards.co.uk/view/F52348/ | 6450|6450|2004-12-30 17:34:27|Gary|BC Charts|Looking to acquire a set of BC charts. I am located vicinity of Nanaimo currently. Thanks... Gary| 6451|6450|2004-12-30 18:56:26|brentswain38|Re: BC Charts|Gary The Evergreen cruising guide is all you'll need for Vancouver Island . It's a great atlas and they now have one for the west coast of the Island. I'm hoping that they'll do one for the north coast soon. When are you launching? Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Gary" wrote: > > Looking to acquire a set of BC charts. I am located vicinity of > Nanaimo currently. > > Thanks... Gary | 6452|6416|2004-12-30 18:58:48|brentswain38|Re: Trawler typeorigami boat.|Evan and John Dawson built an origami tug in Nanaimo a few years back. It's moored on the north end of Gabriola Island . Perhaps thay could give you some tips. Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III" wrote: > > I have a lot of fine drawings for all sizes and boattypes > please be more precise in your requirements list or designgoal : > what kind of boat ? for what kind of sailing in what area ? > for how big a party ? the more precise your wishlist the better > we can assist you . > Please give us more info. > Old Ben > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "wiwrobod" > wrote: > > > > I wonder if any of you member has drawing or ide for boat built for > > the purpose of motoring.We oldre peopel do not hawe the fitnes of > > sailing.In my junger days i did ocean racing but time goes on. > > > > Please mail me. > > > > Gosta Strom > > Sweden | 6453|6441|2004-12-30 20:08:46|tronfixr|Re: Cat & Tri|Many thanks Ben! I see what you mean for the cat but I was thinking of the Tri. Thanks again, Mike --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III" wrote: > > This is realy old info from > the days handwriting was usual on plans :-) > I must have an original somewhere but the scan was made > from an A3 wich was already a reduction . > I lately had some old plans digitalised for Mac & PC, > 40 Euro for 1 larger sheet ( electronicaly cleaning included ) > sure aint a bargain price ! > I think all you can do is download it from Files ( the File > is complete ) print it on your A4 printer and have the sheet > enlarged in a Copy Center with an A3 or larger printer , > for me the A3 format if fine , if you have money to spend > go for the size you are happy with:-) > Old Ben > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "tronfixr" > wrote: > > > > I did a web search and came up dry. A name or web site > maybe? I can't > > read the writing. > > > > Thanks! > > > > Mike > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III" > wrote: > > > > > > Sure , what do you want ? > > > Old Ben :-) > > > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "tronfixr" > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Ditto... > > > > > > > > Do you have any other info Ben? > > > > > > > > Mike > > > > > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "audeojude" > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > i like the aluminum fishing cat :) cool boat. :) looks like > real > > > > > shallow draft also. > > > > > scott > > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III" > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > 2 more pics for Scott & Gosta in Photos > > > > > > Old Ben | 6454|22|2004-12-31 11:11:16|origamiboats@yahoogroups.com|New file uploaded to origamiboats |Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the origamiboats group. File : /MonoCat/Monocat1.jpg Uploaded by : ben_azo Description : from Monokini country :-) You can access this file at the URL: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/files/MonoCat/Monocat1.jpg To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit: http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files Regards, ben_azo | 6455|22|2004-12-31 11:15:39|origamiboats@yahoogroups.com|New file uploaded to origamiboats |Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the origamiboats group. File : /MonoCat/Monocat2.jpg Uploaded by : ben_azo Description : Alcyon similar : see Fondation Cousteau You can access this file at the URL: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/files/MonoCat/Monocat2.jpg To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit: http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files Regards, ben_azo | 6456|22|2004-12-31 11:15:49|origamiboats@yahoogroups.com|New file uploaded to origamiboats |Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the origamiboats group. File : /MonoCat/Monocat3.jpg Uploaded by : ben_azo Description : 3 point boat , worth looking at You can access this file at the URL: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/files/MonoCat/Monocat3.jpg To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit: http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files Regards, ben_azo | 6457|6441|2004-12-31 11:27:54|Puck III|Re: Cat & Tri|Hi Mike , for info on the Tri you will have to write to the Autor in the French Fisheries Museum , name and adress in the pic . I just uploaded 3 Monocat infopages in MonoCat Folder in Files , same idea as Captain Jacques Cousteau's Alcyon and designed by Jacques Fauroux I had the pleasure working with in the seventhies ( in MonKini blessed South of France:-) What size of boat are you interested in ? Smaller boats have been designed around that Idea , I was on such a Gary Hoyd designed boat in Annapolis , realy great in a smaller package . Old Ben --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "tronfixr" wrote: > > Many thanks Ben! I see what you mean for the cat but I was thinking of > the Tri. > > Thanks again, > > Mike > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III" wrote: > > > > This is realy old info from > > the days handwriting was usual on plans :-) > > I must have an original somewhere but the scan was made > > from an A3 wich was already a reduction . > > I lately had some old plans digitalised for Mac & PC, > > 40 Euro for 1 larger sheet ( electronicaly cleaning included ) > > sure aint a bargain price ! > > I think all you can do is download it from Files ( the File > > is complete ) print it on your A4 printer and have the sheet > > enlarged in a Copy Center with an A3 or larger printer , > > for me the A3 format if fine , if you have money to spend > > go for the size you are happy with:-) > > Old Ben > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "tronfixr" > > wrote: > > > > > > I did a web search and came up dry. A name or web site > > maybe? I can't > > > read the writing. > > > > > > Thanks! > > > > > > Mike > > > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III" > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Sure , what do you want ? > > > > Old Ben :-) > > > > > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "tronfixr" > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Ditto... > > > > > > > > > > Do you have any other info Ben? > > > > > > > > > > Mike > > > > > > > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "audeojude" > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > i like the aluminum fishing cat :) cool boat. :) looks like > > real > > > > > > shallow draft also. > > > > > > scott > > > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III" > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2 more pics for Scott & Gosta in Photos > > > > > > > Old Ben | 6458|6458|2004-12-31 12:04:34|Puck III|Sealium|http://www.solarnavigator.net/aluminum_alloys.htm sure usefull info , saves up to 15% in Alu weight Old Ben| 6459|6459|2004-12-31 17:03:59|brentswain38|Interior framing|I was just told of one of my boats being built in aluminium which was having the entire interior framed in aluminium angle .A HUGE MISTAKE. Friends who framed their aluminium boat's interior in aluminium angle said that it literally rained condensation in the winter and anything near the framing was thoroughly soaked in minutes.They are now in the proccess of cutting it all out. Maybe some of the insulating paint could partly solve the problem, but it would still rain condensation wherever the paint was chipped off. Hang your bulkheads off tabs welded to the hull , then hang the rest of your interior off the bulkheads. When the interior is finished cover only any foam which is still showing. Don't worry about the rest. I've seen polyurethane foam sprayed into molds which was as hard as wood. I'm wondering if it is simply a change in the mixture of the ingredients. If so, one could have the sprayfoamer spray a topcoat of the harder stuff on top of the insulation , leaving a tougher surface and saving a lot of work. Brent Swain| 6460|6460|2004-12-31 23:42:03|Puck III|HAPPY NEW YEAR|& fine sailing for all in 2005........Old Ben :-)| 6461|22|2005-01-01 01:36:44|origamiboats@yahoogroups.com|New file uploaded to origamiboats |Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the origamiboats group. File : /MonoCat/Alcyon-Monocat.jpg Uploaded by : ben_azo Description : Cousteau's Monocat You can access this file at the URL: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/files/MonoCat/Alcyon-Monocat.jpg To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit: http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files Regards, ben_azo | 6462|6462|2005-01-01 01:47:05|Puck III|34' Manta Clipper Monocat & easyrig|Hi Mike , sory but I found nothing much on the net about that Pearson build Gary Hoyt designed boat. I was on the boat and some pics appeared in the Nautical Press , and I think it is a very interesting boat to have a look at . May be somebody has any usefull link or info . Have a look at "easyrig" pic in the same Folder :-) Old Ben| 6463|6462|2005-01-01 01:49:27|Puck III|34' Manta Clipper Monocat & easyrig|Hi Mike , sory but I found nothing much on the net about that Pearson build Gary Hoyt designed boat. I was on the boat and some pics appeared in the Nautical Press , and I think it is a very interesting boat to have a look at . May be somebody has any usefull link or info . Have a look at "easyrig" pic in the same Folder :-) Old Ben| 6464|6450|2005-01-02 06:42:17|sae140|Re: BC Charts|I didn't realise Canadians used a reversed buoyage colour code - see: http://www.boaterexam.com/Training/bouys1.html :^) Colin --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "brentswain38" wrote: > > Gary > The Evergreen cruising guide is all you'll need for Vancouver > Island . It's a great atlas and they now have one for the west coast > of the Island. I'm hoping that they'll do one for the north coast > soon. > When are you launching? > Brent > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Gary" wrote: > > > > Looking to acquire a set of BC charts. I am located vicinity of > > Nanaimo currently. > > > > Thanks... Gary | 6465|6437|2005-01-02 09:34:09|Puck III|Re: Looking for boat plan|Hi Charles, I realy think we all need some more info and input from you . A Workboat : for what kinda work ?? Ocean capable ?? what's the required range & speed ?? Cargo Hold ?? for what kinda Cargo ?? if me asking is indiscreet you can always give a subsitiute but an idea of volume and weight would be great . Working with a boat requires Workboat Registration ,Licensing and Classification in many countries ( do we need to obtain a SOLAS : Safety of life at sea Certificate ? ) Please give some more info and if you can post some pics of what you have in mind ( most Fisherman do ) if it's fishing you have in mind :-) Succes in your research anyway! Old Ben --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Charles Leblanc" wrote: > > Hi everybody. > > I used to follow this list last year but unfortunatly I have stopped > reading the post because of my new workload and now I am completly > out of sync with all the threads. I know that some origami boat > designers/naval architect are following the list and this message is > aimed at them > > I am looking to Purchase one or many plan for building a large > workboat. > > I would favor a boat with a wider beam than usual because of the > stability improvement as well as the increase in tonnage. > > I am looking to install a medium size diesel engine inboard for > propulsion (250-600hp) and a diesel generator for electricity > production. Deck space and cargo hold are important and the boat > should be ocean capable. > > I was initially looking to get a used 64' x 20' boat with a 10' draft > but I could also be interested in a smaller boat (50' and up). > > I would favor a fast building origami boat. Since I am able to get > access to marine grade aluminium plated, I would consider aluminium > hull as well as steel. > > You are welcome to reply privatly to leblancc_99@y... > I will monitor the list on a daily basis > > Thank you and happy holidays > > Charles Leblanc | 6466|22|2005-01-02 10:14:37|origamiboats@yahoogroups.com|New file uploaded to origamiboats |Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the origamiboats group. File : /MonoCat/Tri-hull35.jpg Uploaded by : ben_azo Description : another name for Monocat :-) You can access this file at the URL: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/files/MonoCat/Tri-hull35.jpg To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit: http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files Regards, ben_azo | 6467|6450|2005-01-02 11:32:20|Bill Jaine|Re: BC Charts|It gets to be an issue at times which way is upstream, basic principle is �red right returning� but, as I said, sometimes it�s hard to know which is the �returning� direction. Especially on the lakes and the Trent Severn waterway. I usually try to stay in the middle, but in some areas, such as Brighton Bay, you have to sail a mile out of direction to go around a red even though the green is 100 yards away. Bill Port Hope. Canada -----Original Message----- From: sae140 [mailto:colinpowell@...] Sent: 2-Jan-05 6:42 AM To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Subject: [origamiboats] Re: BC Charts I didn't realise Canadians used a reversed buoyage colour code - see: HYPERLINK "http://www.boaterexam.com/Training/bouys1.html"http://www.boaterexam.com/Tr aining/bouys1.html :^) Colin --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "brentswain38" wrote: > > Gary > The Evergreen cruising guide is all you'll need for Vancouver > Island . It's a great atlas and they now have one for the west coast > of the Island. I'm hoping that they'll do one for the north coast > soon. > When are you launching? > Brent > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Gary" wrote: > > > > Looking to acquire a set of BC charts. I am located vicinity of > > Nanaimo currently. > > > > Thanks... Gary To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com _____ Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: HYPERLINK "http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/"http://groups.yahoo.com/group/o rigamiboats/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HYPERLINK "mailto:origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe"origami boats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the HYPERLINK "http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/"Yahoo! Terms of Service. --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.825 / Virus Database: 563 - Release Date: 30/12/2004 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.825 / Virus Database: 563 - Release Date: 30/12/2004 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]| 6468|6450|2005-01-02 15:11:56|sae140|Re: BC Charts|Nah - you missed it ... they're teaching their students that "starboard-hand buoys are red, and port-hand buoys are green". At least they got the shapes right ... Colin --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Bill Jaine" wrote: > It gets to be an issue at times which way is upstream, basic principle is > "red right returning" but, as I said, sometimes it's hard to know which is > the "returning" direction. Especially on the lakes and the Trent Severn > waterway. > > > > I usually try to stay in the middle, but in some areas, such as Brighton > Bay, you have to sail a mile out of direction to go around a red even though > the green is 100 yards away. > > > > Bill > > Port Hope. Canada > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: sae140 [mailto:colinpowell@f...] > Sent: 2-Jan-05 6:42 AM > To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [origamiboats] Re: BC Charts > > > > > I didn't realise Canadians used a reversed buoyage colour code - see: > HYPERLINK > "http://www.boaterexam.com/Training/bouys1.html"http://www.boaterexa m.com/Tr > aining/bouys1.html > > :^) > > Colin > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "brentswain38" > wrote: > > > > Gary > > The Evergreen cruising guide is all you'll need for Vancouver > > Island . It's a great atlas and they now have one for the west > coast > > of the Island. I'm hoping that they'll do one for the north coast > > soon. > > When are you launching? > > Brent > > > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Gary" > wrote: > > > > > > Looking to acquire a set of BC charts. I am located vicinity of > > > Nanaimo currently. > > > > > > Thanks... Gary > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > > _____ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > * To visit your group on the web, go to: > HYPERLINK > "http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/"http://groups.yahoo.com /group/o > rigamiboats/ > > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > HYPERLINK > "mailto:origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com? subject=Unsubscribe"origami > boats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the HYPERLINK > "http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/"Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > > --- > Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.825 / Virus Database: 563 - Release Date: 30/12/2004 > > > > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.825 / Virus Database: 563 - Release Date: 30/12/2004 > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 6469|6450|2005-01-03 09:16:42|sae140|Re: buoys - was BC Charts|Crikey - I've found another one: http://www.sailingusa.info/basic_navigation.htm which - although my first post was tongue in cheek, suggests that there actually *is* a colour reversal. In European waters, port-hand buoys are most definitely red cans and are kept to port when entering a channel from seaward, starboard buoys are green and cone-shaped .... Can anyone from the other side of the pond confirm this difference ? Colin > Nah - you missed it ... they're teaching their students > that "starboard-hand buoys are red, and port-hand buoys are green". > At least they got the shapes right ... > > Colin | 6470|6450|2005-01-03 10:45:18|Michael Casling|Re: buoys - was BC Charts|It has always been red right returining as far as I know. The one that does get messed up over here is the diver down. The test has more than one correct answer depending where you take the test. I got it wrong in Vancouver BC but I gave the correct answer. There is confusion over what is the international flag and what is being used. Blue white and red white. There was also a notice a few years ago about the red right returning but I believe it had to do with the water flow. There is an easy way to remember the cardinal buoys but I forgot it. Michael ----- Original Message ----- From: sae140 To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, January 03, 2005 6:16 AM Subject: [origamiboats] Re: buoys - was BC Charts Crikey - I've found another one: http://www.sailingusa.info/basic_navigation.htm which - although my first post was tongue in cheek, suggests that there actually *is* a colour reversal. In European waters, port-hand buoys are most definitely red cans and are kept to port when entering a channel from seaward, starboard buoys are green and cone-shaped .... Can anyone from the other side of the pond confirm this difference ? Colin > Nah - you missed it ... they're teaching their students > that "starboard-hand buoys are red, and port-hand buoys are green". > At least they got the shapes right ... > > Colin To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links a.. To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/ b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 6471|6450|2005-01-03 12:38:24|Carl Di Stefano|Re: buoys - was BC Charts|I was taught "red right returning " Carl CA USA ----- Original Message ----- From: "sae140" To: Sent: Monday, January 03, 2005 6:16 AM Subject: [origamiboats] Re: buoys - was BC Charts > > > > Crikey - I've found another one: > http://www.sailingusa.info/basic_navigation.htm > which - although my first post was tongue in cheek, suggests that > there actually *is* a colour reversal. > > In European waters, port-hand buoys are most definitely red cans and > are kept to port when entering a channel from seaward, starboard > buoys are green and cone-shaped .... > > Can anyone from the other side of the pond confirm this difference ? > > Colin > > > > Nah - you missed it ... they're teaching their students > > that "starboard-hand buoys are red, and port-hand buoys are > green". > > At least they got the shapes right ... > > > > Colin > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > | 6472|6472|2005-01-03 14:03:04|Gary|Plexiglass|Anyone know of a compound or whatever to repair, hide, mask etc.. scratches on plexiglass. Thanks.. Gary| 6473|6450|2005-01-03 14:29:25|brentswain38|Re: BC Charts|Al the buoys I've seen in BC waters in the last 35 years have been red right returning when travelling with the flood. Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "sae140" wrote: > > Nah - you missed it ... they're teaching their students > that "starboard-hand buoys are red, and port-hand buoys are green". > At least they got the shapes right ... > > Colin > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Bill Jaine" > wrote: > > It gets to be an issue at times which way is upstream, basic > principle is > > "red right returning" but, as I said, sometimes it's hard to know > which is > > the "returning" direction. Especially on the lakes and the Trent > Severn > > waterway. > > > > > > > > I usually try to stay in the middle, but in some areas, such as > Brighton > > Bay, you have to sail a mile out of direction to go around a red > even though > > the green is 100 yards away. > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > Port Hope. Canada > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: sae140 [mailto:colinpowell@f...] > > Sent: 2-Jan-05 6:42 AM > > To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [origamiboats] Re: BC Charts > > > > > > > > > > I didn't realise Canadians used a reversed buoyage colour code - > see: > > HYPERLINK > > "http://www.boaterexam.com/Training/bouys1.html"http://www.boaterexa > m.com/Tr > > aining/bouys1.html > > > > :^) > > > > Colin > > > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "brentswain38" > > wrote: > > > > > > Gary > > > The Evergreen cruising guide is all you'll need for Vancouver > > > Island . It's a great atlas and they now have one for the west > > coast > > > of the Island. I'm hoping that they'll do one for the north coast > > > soon. > > > When are you launching? > > > Brent > > > > > > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Gary" > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Looking to acquire a set of BC charts. I am located vicinity > of > > > > Nanaimo currently. > > > > > > > > Thanks... Gary > > > > > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > * To visit your group on the web, go to: > > HYPERLINK > > "http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/"http://groups.yahoo.com > /group/o > > rigamiboats/ > > > > > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > HYPERLINK > > "mailto:origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com? > subject=Unsubscribe"origami > > boats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the HYPERLINK > > "http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/"Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > > > > > --- > > Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. > > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > > Version: 6.0.825 / Virus Database: 563 - Release Date: 30/12/2004 > > > > > > > > --- > > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > > Version: 6.0.825 / Virus Database: 563 - Release Date: 30/12/2004 > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 6474|6472|2005-01-03 14:31:43|brentswain38|Re: Plexiglass|Toothpaste or jeweller's rouge ,on a sheepskin buffing wheel will take tiny scratches out. Mirror glaze , or other polishing or cleaning compounds used on aircraft windshields has the same index of refraction as the plexi and will make them dissappear by filling them; for a while. Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Gary" wrote: > > Anyone know of a compound or whatever to repair, hide, mask etc.. > scratches on plexiglass. > > Thanks.. > > Gary | 6475|6475|2005-01-04 03:40:58|edward_stoneuk|Transducer siting|Where is a good place for any through hull transducers in a BS 36, especially with regards to turbulence possibly interferring with the signal? Regards, Ted| 6476|6472|2005-01-04 04:01:39|Sailor|Re: Plexiglass|We used jeweler's rouge and a buffing wheel in our 8th grade shop to remove scratches. (that was about 1954) there is probably a more "modern" method now.... Regards, Earl ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary" To: Sent: Monday, January 03, 2005 2:01 PM Subject: [origamiboats] Plexiglass > > > Anyone know of a compound or whatever to repair, hide, mask etc.. > scratches on plexiglass. > > Thanks.. > > Gary > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > | 6477|6450|2005-01-04 04:06:24|Sailor|Re: buoys - was BC Charts|Entering the channels in New York we added "rising" to the other 3 Rs. The nav aid numbers should also be increasing. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carl Di Stefano" To: Sent: Monday, January 03, 2005 12:38 PM Subject: Re: [origamiboats] Re: buoys - was BC Charts > > I was taught "red right returning " > Carl > CA USA > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "sae140" > To: > Sent: Monday, January 03, 2005 6:16 AM > Subject: [origamiboats] Re: buoys - was BC Charts > > > > > > > > > > Crikey - I've found another one: > > http://www.sailingusa.info/basic_navigation.htm > > which - although my first post was tongue in cheek, suggests that > > there actually *is* a colour reversal. > > > > In European waters, port-hand buoys are most definitely red cans and > > are kept to port when entering a channel from seaward, starboard > > buoys are green and cone-shaped .... > > > > Can anyone from the other side of the pond confirm this difference ? > > > > Colin > > > > > > > Nah - you missed it ... they're teaching their students > > > that "starboard-hand buoys are red, and port-hand buoys are > > green". > > > At least they got the shapes right ... > > > > > > Colin > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > | 6478|6450|2005-01-04 04:09:01|Sailor|Re: buoys - was BC Charts|Diver down is "code" pennant and "alpha" flag, or so we were taught.... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Casling" To: Sent: Monday, January 03, 2005 10:44 AM Subject: Re: [origamiboats] Re: buoys - was BC Charts > > It has always been red right returining as far as I know. The one that does get messed up over here is the diver down. The test has more than one correct answer depending where you take the test. I got it wrong in Vancouver BC but I gave the correct answer. There is confusion over what is the international flag and what is being used. Blue white and red white. There was also a notice a few years ago about the red right returning but I believe it had to do with the water flow. There is an easy way to remember the cardinal buoys but I forgot it. > Michael > ----- Original Message ----- > From: sae140 > To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Monday, January 03, 2005 6:16 AM > Subject: [origamiboats] Re: buoys - was BC Charts > > > > > Crikey - I've found another one: > http://www.sailingusa.info/basic_navigation.htm > which - although my first post was tongue in cheek, suggests that > there actually *is* a colour reversal. > > In European waters, port-hand buoys are most definitely red cans and > are kept to port when entering a channel from seaward, starboard > buoys are green and cone-shaped .... > > Can anyone from the other side of the pond confirm this difference ? > > Colin > > > > Nah - you missed it ... they're teaching their students > > that "starboard-hand buoys are red, and port-hand buoys are > green". > > At least they got the shapes right ... > > > > Colin > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > Yahoo! Groups Links > > a.. To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/ > > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > | 6479|6450|2005-01-04 10:53:57|sae140|Re: buoys - was BC Charts|Well - this is buoy stuff is driving me barmy - so as they say "when all else fails, read the book." Reed's Nautical Almanac (very much a European publication) states: "International Buoyage is harmonised into a single system which, applied to Regions A and B, differs only in the use of red and green lateral marks. In Region A (which includes all Europe) lateral marks are red on the port hand, and in Region B red on the starboard hand, related to direction of buoyage." "International Association of Lighthouse Authorities - Region B Buoyage System, is found in the Eastern Pacific, Atlantic and Pacific Coasts of North and South America, the Great Lakes, the Caribbean, Japan, Philippines and the Republic of Korea. Most of the rest of the world follows the IALA-A system (green right returning) which is found in the remainder of the Western Pacific, Indian Ocean, Atlantic Coasts of Africa and Europe, and the Mediterranean." Confusion over. BTW - in UK waters, Diver Down = International 'A' flag, in the Med they fly Red with a White diagonal. Colin --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Sailor" wrote: > Diver down is "code" pennant and "alpha" flag, or so we were taught.... > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Michael Casling" > To: > Sent: Monday, January 03, 2005 10:44 AM > Subject: Re: [origamiboats] Re: buoys - was BC Charts > > > > > > It has always been red right returining as far as I know. The one that > does get messed up over here is the diver down. The test has more than one > correct answer depending where you take the test. I got it wrong in > Vancouver BC but I gave the correct answer. There is confusion over what is > the international flag and what is being used. Blue white and red white. > There was also a notice a few years ago about the red right returning but I > believe it had to do with the water flow. There is an easy way to remember > the cardinal buoys but I forgot it. > > Michael > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: sae140 > > To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Monday, January 03, 2005 6:16 AM > > Subject: [origamiboats] Re: buoys - was BC Charts > > > > > > > > > > Crikey - I've found another one: > > http://www.sailingusa.info/basic_navigation.htm > > which - although my first post was tongue in cheek, suggests that > > there actually *is* a colour reversal. > > > > In European waters, port-hand buoys are most definitely red cans and > > are kept to port when entering a channel from seaward, starboard > > buoys are green and cone-shaped .... > > > > Can anyone from the other side of the pond confirm this difference ? > > > > Colin > > > > > > > Nah - you missed it ... they're teaching their students > > > that "starboard-hand buoys are red, and port-hand buoys are > > green". > > > At least they got the shapes right ... > > > > > > Colin > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ -------- > ---- > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > a.. To visit your group on the web, go to: > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/ > > > > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > Service. > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > | 6480|6400|2005-01-04 10:59:40|Alfredo Nannetti|Re: The Italian Job|> Hi Alfredo, > thanks for the intro and letting us know about your business. > I went over your site : http://www.terra-nova.it > with much attention. > My favorite there : " Sanpierota " la barche di Venezia . > Did you ever sailed one and how does she performs ? Hi Ben, no I never sailed on a "Sanpierota" but my fellow did and builded it. He say that it's very fast becouse of his flat bottom.... I just saw your pic , a 39 year young Italian with enthousiasm, > good to have a european youngster in here ; my eyesight and > my hearing aren't so good anymore ( nothing realy is :-) > but I still have some enthousiasm ; my Italian designed > Cerruti blazer sure makes me look better :-) > Many shipyards in Italy know metal boatbuilding very well, > I sold some hull only designs in Italy . Superstructure and > accomodation designed by an Italian artist that can turn even > a square box into something sexy and appealing. Yes, there are some boatyards working metal very well in Italy, but they are generally interested just in very expensive yacht or motor boat quite long.......too long.... :) > > About your Site and projects : Today a prospect buyer or even > just a visitor is very spoiled and I fear that if he is not > particularly interested in the designs you propose he will skip your > site quickly without comming back . You need an eyecatcher and some > interesting Links : some sugestions : http://tinyurl.com/7y3c7 > I will send a pic to : http://tinyurl.com/68277 cause Dove III > as the smallest boat on that list realy deserves that special > attention and I know the Italians realy had national attention for > some famous Polar expeditions . Maybe you are right... > & the 26' plans , a bargainprice and one should give to Ceasar what's > due to Ceasar . Further you will have to convert the plans to metric ( > be very carefull with non metric gents , some of them use " Stones " > others even still persist on driving on the wrong side of the road) A > small sound cruiser like the BS 26' with a pretty deckhouse and > accomodation design and a CEE approval sure will catch the deserved > interest and can be sold with a profit . I'm already thinking about Brent Swain designs.... Personaly I think Italians > will rather bye an Aluminum boat . Tell me what you think. Old Ben That is not true, I think. People like to talk about alluminium a lot, maybe more than steel but one thing is to talk and another is to build. I know lot of people building in steel and very few in alluminium. But now I'm interested in what is your job. I mean I could read you sell design, and than? Is it an hobby or what? All the best to evribody and a happy sail year to evrybody. Ciao Alfredo| 6481|6472|2005-01-04 11:00:09|sae140|Re: Plexiglass|Likewise, I've used metal polish in the past to remove scratches in Plexi (btw - it really knackers polycarb/lexan). I believe these days you can buy a liquid for removing scratches from CD's. I guess you'd need to remove the plexi first and lay it down flat, as the idea is to fill the scratches, rather than polish them out. Colin --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Sailor" wrote: > We used jeweler's rouge and a buffing wheel in our 8th grade shop to remove > scratches. (that was about 1954) there is probably a more "modern" method > now.... > Regards, > Earl > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Gary" > To: > Sent: Monday, January 03, 2005 2:01 PM > Subject: [origamiboats] Plexiglass > > > > > > > > Anyone know of a compound or whatever to repair, hide, mask etc.. > > scratches on plexiglass. > > > > Thanks.. > > > > Gary > > > > > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > | 6482|6434|2005-01-04 11:01:38|Alfredo Nannetti|Re: red oxide paint|> Before discussing coatings, it's quite useful to have an appreciation > of the rusting process itself. There's a good description of this at: > http://www.metalwebnews.com/howto/rust/rust.html > > The protection of steel from rusting falls into 2 different types - > physical protection by the application of a barrier coating to prevent > oxygen and moisture from reaching the steel - and electrolytic > protection by the application of a zinc coating to the surface of the > steel. The electrolytic protection will continue to work even if the > barrier is breached, but the physical coating (only) barrier will not. I would suggest another important point. The way of building a boat wich come before painting and protecting from electrolises. Ciao Alfredo > > The use of red oxide falls into the physical coating barrier > category, and will be 'ok-ish' providing the steel is prepared by > (preferably) grit-blasting beforehand to remove all traces of surface > rust, or alternatively, the surface can be treated with phosphoric > acid or a tannic acid compound (Fertan). The article above explains > how this stuff works. > > Although red oxide is an economical and traditional primer, these days > it is difficult to justify it's use in a saltwater environment when > there are so many far superior epoxy-based paints available. However, > red oxide is still widely used on barges and narrow-boats destined to > operate in fresh water, where the rusting process is less aggressive. > > Hope this helps > > Colin > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > --------------------~--> $4.98 domain names from Yahoo!. Register > anything. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Q7_YsB/neXJAA/yQLSAA/YmoolB/TM > --------------------------------------------------------------------~- > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > | 6483|6374|2005-01-04 11:01:42|Alfredo Nannetti|Re: pre-primed steel|Thanks Alex for your suggeriments and explanations. Ciao alfredo > I've just been out to examine my hull, on which was preprimed prior to > building. I have found some areas to be holding up quite well, while > others are suffering, though not to an extreme (ie, it is just surface > rust, not pitting). Still, I don't regret doing it, as the > wheel-abrading and shot-blasting did remove mill-scale, and I > shouldn't have to sandblast. Ideally it would have been good to do > this boat under cover, but I do feel that with the right pre-priming > this should not be an issue. I have seen other pre-primed boats and > have noted that they had a thicker coat of pre-prime than my steel. > In other words, I think I got a little less primer on mine than I > should have, and evidently not all priming-jobs are equal! > > The spots where the welding burned the primer are very small, and in > some cases are still retaining their paint without any rusting at all. > I will still clean these up and retouch eventually, but it is > convenient that I don't have to worry about those areas at this time. > > Quality control makes a big difference in a project, and I think for > the "next boat" I will make it very clear to the company doing the > pre-priming that I expect a higher build-up of primer. Don't let them > just "dust" the steel with primer -- it should be properly covered. > Also, my steel was heavily scratched up during handling, and this was > before it came off the delivery truck. I will cope with the scratches > as they are. > > Considering the expense (thanks in part to China's appetite for steel) > of buying the steel, I would advise anyone starting a project to make > it very clear to the company selling you the material that you expect > the steel's coating to be in good shape when it arrives. > > Ciao, > > Alex > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > --------------------~--> $4.98 domain names from Yahoo!. Register > anything. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Q7_YsB/neXJAA/yQLSAA/YmoolB/TM > --------------------------------------------------------------------~- > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > | 6484|6374|2005-01-04 11:01:49|Alfredo Nannetti|Re: ??|Yes, but were are you from? Are you close to Italy? Ciao Alfredo > Very nice Site, Alfredo! ;-) > Still trying to make sense of the text, based on my knowledge of > french I manage to sort of gather the general idea - enough to think > that I might come and see you one of these days... Keep the good works > up! > > Gerd > The Yago Project at http://www.justmueller.com/boats/ > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > --------------------~--> Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! > Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! > http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/YmoolB/TM > --------------------------------------------------------------------~- > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > | 6485|6434|2005-01-04 11:02:01|Alfredo Nannetti|Re: red oxide paint|> Before discussing coatings, it's quite useful to have an appreciation > of the rusting process itself. There's a good description of this at: > http://www.metalwebnews.com/howto/rust/rust.html > > The protection of steel from rusting falls into 2 different types - > physical protection by the application of a barrier coating to prevent > oxygen and moisture from reaching the steel - and electrolytic > protection by the application of a zinc coating to the surface of the > steel. The electrolytic protection will continue to work even if the > barrier is breached, but the physical coating (only) barrier will not. I would suggest another important point. The way of building a boat wich come before painting and protecting from electrolises. Ciao Alfredo > > The use of red oxide falls into the physical coating barrier > category, and will be 'ok-ish' providing the steel is prepared by > (preferably) grit-blasting beforehand to remove all traces of surface > rust, or alternatively, the surface can be treated with phosphoric > acid or a tannic acid compound (Fertan). The article above explains > how this stuff works. > > Although red oxide is an economical and traditional primer, these days > it is difficult to justify it's use in a saltwater environment when > there are so many far superior epoxy-based paints available. However, > red oxide is still widely used on barges and narrow-boats destined to > operate in fresh water, where the rusting process is less aggressive. > > Hope this helps > > Colin > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > --------------------~--> $4.98 domain names from Yahoo!. Register > anything. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Q7_YsB/neXJAA/yQLSAA/YmoolB/TM > --------------------------------------------------------------------~- > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > | 6486|6441|2005-01-04 15:18:32|tronfixr|Re: Cat & Tri|Happy New Year to you too Ben! Many thanks for all the info. I'm interested in 40'for the room, but practically speaking I'll be going for Brent's 26' or 36' due to the difficulty of owning a boat around here (on the big island of Hawaii- restricted access landings [4' max draft and bridges], no facilities, limited mooring...). I find tri-hulls interesting since my young days in the Navy (going to 'C' school in Dam Neck) where I saw a really neat model of one in a bar up by the Navy base. Looked very similar to your pictures except a little more racy- short amas to the rear with sleek connections to the main hull. Kinda like a space ship. In my teens I worked shrimp boats in Beaufort S.C. where friends had built a trimaran that looked like a saucer over all three hulls. Didn't care for that design much although it seemed very stable- just ugly. Back then we had a cat mine tender tied up next to us in home port Charleston S.C. I always heard it had major problems with stress fractures which Trimarans seemed not to have. I'm sure things have come a long way since then for cats but for some reason the tri hull still steals my heart away! Thanks again for the info and picts. Mike --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III" wrote: > > Hi Mike , for info on the Tri you will have to write to the > Autor in the French Fisheries Museum , name and adress > in the pic . > I just uploaded 3 Monocat infopages in MonoCat Folder > in Files , same idea as Captain Jacques Cousteau's Alcyon > and designed by Jacques Fauroux I had the pleasure working > with in the seventhies ( in MonKini blessed South of France:-) > What size of boat are you interested in ? > Smaller boats have been designed around that Idea , > I was on such a Gary Hoyd designed boat in Annapolis , > realy great in a smaller package . > Old Ben > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "tronfixr" > wrote: > > > > Many thanks Ben! I see what you mean for the cat but I was > thinking of > > the Tri. > > > > Thanks again, > > > > Mike > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III" > wrote: > > > > > > This is realy old info from > > > the days handwriting was usual on plans :-) > > > I must have an original somewhere but the scan was made > > > from an A3 wich was already a reduction . > > > I lately had some old plans digitalised for Mac & PC, > > > 40 Euro for 1 larger sheet ( electronicaly cleaning included ) > > > sure aint a bargain price ! > > > I think all you can do is download it from Files ( the File > > > is complete ) print it on your A4 printer and have the sheet > > > enlarged in a Copy Center with an A3 or larger printer , > > > for me the A3 format if fine , if you have money to spend > > > go for the size you are happy with:-) > > > Old Ben > > > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "tronfixr" > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > I did a web search and came up dry. A name or web site > > > maybe? I can't > > > > read the writing. > > > > > > > > Thanks! > > > > > > > > Mike > > > > > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III" > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Sure , what do you want ? > > > > > Old Ben :-) > > > > > > > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "tronfixr" > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Ditto... > > > > > > > > > > > > Do you have any other info Ben? > > > > > > > > > > > > Mike > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "audeojude" > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > i like the aluminum fishing cat :) cool boat. :) looks > like > > > real > > > > > > > shallow draft also. > > > > > > > scott > > > > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III" > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2 more pics for Scott & Gosta in Photos > > > > > > > > Old Ben | 6487|6472|2005-01-04 15:40:32|tronfixr|Re: Plexiglass|Many thanks for the PDF on Perspex in files, Colin. Lots of good info! We have a master machienist around here whom introduced me to Lexan. He bends it like metal in a press without heat and it looks like glass. Is there some reason not to use Lexan over Plexy? BTW- he instructed me to dull the tips of the drill bit flutes when drilling soft materials like plastics to prevent the bit from grabing and breaking the material. I haven't done it but does sound like a good idea. Mike --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "sae140" wrote: > > Likewise, I've used metal polish in the past to remove scratches in > Plexi (btw - it really knackers polycarb/lexan). I believe these > days you can buy a liquid for removing scratches from CD's. I guess > you'd need to remove the plexi first and lay it down flat, as the > idea is to fill the scratches, rather than polish them out. > > Colin > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Sailor" wrote: > > We used jeweler's rouge and a buffing wheel in our 8th grade shop > to remove > > scratches. (that was about 1954) there is probably a more "modern" > method > > now.... > > Regards, > > Earl > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Gary" > > To: > > Sent: Monday, January 03, 2005 2:01 PM > > Subject: [origamiboats] Plexiglass > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anyone know of a compound or whatever to repair, hide, mask etc.. > > > scratches on plexiglass. > > > > > > Thanks.. > > > > > > Gary > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > | 6488|6488|2005-01-04 15:59:34|edward_stoneuk|Propeller Aperture|The top of some propeller apertures in the skegs of some BS boats have a kind of hook in the top where the skeg meets the transom. Is there a reason for this, as it doesn't appear to have any purpose, or is it how it comes? Regards, Ted| 6489|6489|2005-01-04 16:51:40|Puck III|Re: The Italian Job II|Hi Alfredo , fine to have you back in here and thanks for your respons . My job ? I am a retiree , well deserved afther more than 30 years of boatdesign & boatbuilding . Today I give my time free for African boatbuildingprojects. Follow all the links in my Yahoo profile and you will find some interesting designs . Good to see you think about Brent Swain's designs , they save a lot of labor and allow yards to propose a good product at a competitive price. As an Italian Yard you will have to comply with the EU regulations the metric, the category you want to build her for, eventualy a cuttingfile (I use one 12mx3m) but sure some stability calculations & tests, and last but not least the agregation number and stamp :-) If you can't produce that , a usefull Groupmember could come in handy to do it for you , dont you think so ? To be honnest I'd love to see the first " real frameless origami" boat pics in here , cause non of all the others realy are :-) In aluminum of course to save weight and a boat build as an exquisite showmodel ( Italians love that ) All what's needed is that first customer . A Groupsmember in here sold her 22' boat , she offered me the "Artic Odyssey" book ( I enjoyed all the artistic drawings from Len Sherman SOO MUCH ) . Cause she also won first price in a 2004 prestigeous Gastronomic Contest , she invited me to a prestigeous restaurant in Antwerp tomorow at noon, lets hope she orders a new boat tomorow :-) So you see how my passion for boats , boatdesign and boatbuilding can come in real handy,from time to time. Ciao Ciao Old Ben in Belgium --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Alfredo Nannetti" wrote: > > Hi Alfredo, > > thanks for the intro and letting us know about your business. > > I went over your site : http://www.terra-nova.it > > with much attention. > > My favorite there : " Sanpierota " la barche di Venezia . > > Did you ever sailed one and how does she performs ? > Hi Ben, no I never sailed on a "Sanpierota" but my fellow did and > builded it. He say that it's very fast becouse of his flat bottom.... > > I just saw your pic , a 39 year young Italian with enthousiasm, > > good to have a european youngster in here ; my eyesight and > > my hearing aren't so good anymore ( nothing realy is :-) > > but I still have some enthousiasm ; my Italian designed > > Cerruti blazer sure makes me look better :-) > > Many shipyards in Italy know metal boatbuilding very well, > > I sold some hull only designs in Italy . Superstructure and > > accomodation designed by an Italian artist that can turn even > > a square box into something sexy and appealing. > Yes, there are some boatyards working metal very well in Italy, but > they are generally interested just in very expensive yacht or motor > boat quite long.......too long.... :) > > > > About your Site and projects : Today a prospect buyer or even > > just a visitor is very spoiled and I fear that if he is not > > particularly interested in the designs you propose he will skip your > > site quickly without comming back . You need an eyecatcher and some > > interesting Links : some sugestions : http://tinyurl.com/7y3c7 > > I will send a pic to : http://tinyurl.com/68277 cause Dove III > > as the smallest boat on that list realy deserves that special > > attention and I know the Italians realy had national attention for > > some famous Polar expeditions . > Maybe you are right... > > & the 26' plans , a bargainprice and one should give to Ceasar what's > > due to Ceasar . Further you will have to convert the plans to metric ( > > be very carefull with non metric gents , some of them use " Stones " > > others even still persist on driving on the wrong side of the road) A > > small sound cruiser like the BS 26' with a pretty deckhouse and > > accomodation design and a CEE approval sure will catch the deserved > > interest and can be sold with a profit . > I'm already thinking about Brent Swain designs.... > Personaly I think Italians > > will rather bye an Aluminum boat . Tell me what you think. Old Ben > That is not true, I think. People like to talk about alluminium a lot, > maybe more than steel but one thing is to talk and another is to > build. I know lot of people building in steel and very few in > alluminium. > But now I'm interested in what is your job. I mean I could read you > sell design, and than? Is it an hobby or what? > All the best to evribody and a happy sail year to evrybody. > Ciao > Alfredo | 6490|6488|2005-01-04 17:03:19|brentswain38|Re: Propeller Aperture|Strictly aesthetics, a personal choice. Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "edward_stoneuk" wrote: > > The top of some propeller apertures in the skegs of some BS boats > have a kind of hook in the top where the skeg meets the transom. Is > there a reason for this, as it doesn't appear to have any purpose, > or is it how it comes? > Regards, > Ted | 6491|6475|2005-01-04 17:05:46|brentswain38|Re: Transducer siting|I just put it under the quarter berth in the stern as it's well protected from logs there and is easy to get at. I've had no problem with turbulence as long as it's to one side of the propwash and not in it. Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "edward_stoneuk" wrote: > > Where is a good place for any through hull transducers in a BS 36, > especially with regards to turbulence possibly interferring with the > signal? > Regards, > Ted | 6492|799|2005-01-04 17:10:23|brentswain38|Re: pre-primed steel|No harm in throwing an extra coat of primer on during the building proccess. Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Alfredo Nannetti" wrote: > Thanks Alex for your suggeriments and explanations. > Ciao alfredo > > > I've just been out to examine my hull, on which was preprimed prior to > > building. I have found some areas to be holding up quite well, while > > others are suffering, though not to an extreme (ie, it is just surface > > rust, not pitting). Still, I don't regret doing it, as the > > wheel-abrading and shot-blasting did remove mill-scale, and I > > shouldn't have to sandblast. Ideally it would have been good to do > > this boat under cover, but I do feel that with the right pre- priming > > this should not be an issue. I have seen other pre-primed boats and > > have noted that they had a thicker coat of pre-prime than my steel. > > In other words, I think I got a little less primer on mine than I > > should have, and evidently not all priming-jobs are equal! > > > > The spots where the welding burned the primer are very small, and in > > some cases are still retaining their paint without any rusting at all. > > I will still clean these up and retouch eventually, but it is > > convenient that I don't have to worry about those areas at this time. > > > > Quality control makes a big difference in a project, and I think for > > the "next boat" I will make it very clear to the company doing the > > pre-priming that I expect a higher build-up of primer. Don't let them > > just "dust" the steel with primer -- it should be properly covered. > > Also, my steel was heavily scratched up during handling, and this was > > before it came off the delivery truck. I will cope with the scratches > > as they are. > > > > Considering the expense (thanks in part to China's appetite for steel) > > of buying the steel, I would advise anyone starting a project to make > > it very clear to the company selling you the material that you expect > > the steel's coating to be in good shape when it arrives. > > > > Ciao, > > > > Alex > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > --------------------~--> $4.98 domain names from Yahoo!. Register > > anything. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Q7_YsB/neXJAA/yQLSAA/YmoolB/TM > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ --~- > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > | 6493|6374|2005-01-05 03:39:26|Gerd|Re: ??|> Yes, but were are you from? Are you close to Italy? I am a German, living/designing & building at the moment in Budapest/Hungary, after having spent many years building/sailing boats in France, out of La Rochelle on the atlantic side. Ckeck out the workbook for download at my site, there is some more background.. ;-) Gerd The Yago project at http://www.justmueller.com/boats| 6494|6441|2005-01-05 06:23:22|denis buggy|Re: Cat & Tri|Dear Mike if you like steel trimarans a lot of work has been done by Vosper Thorneycroft in the uk as a joint project for the uk and us governments and a lot of conference papers have been published favouring the tri concept . check out mv triton and the earlier boat , they had the cream of the british naval architects working on this for some years and a lot of resources were poured into it . a co in Australia called astraul also build high tec naval ships mainly in aluminium and the us has stated this is the future for their navy and austral have built a plant in the us to cope with the demand for tri and cat navy ships . happy new year Denis ----- Original Message ----- From: tronfixr To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, January 04, 2005 8:18 PM Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Cat & Tri Happy New Year to you too Ben! Many thanks for all the info. I'm interested in 40'for the room, but practically speaking I'll be going for Brent's 26' or 36' due to the difficulty of owning a boat around here (on the big island of Hawaii- restricted access landings [4' max draft and bridges], no facilities, limited mooring...). I find tri-hulls interesting since my young days in the Navy (going to 'C' school in Dam Neck) where I saw a really neat model of one in a bar up by the Navy base. Looked very similar to your pictures except a little more racy- short amas to the rear with sleek connections to the main hull. Kinda like a space ship. In my teens I worked shrimp boats in Beaufort S.C. where friends had built a trimaran that looked like a saucer over all three hulls. Didn't care for that design much although it seemed very stable- just ugly. Back then we had a cat mine tender tied up next to us in home port Charleston S.C. I always heard it had major problems with stress fractures which Trimarans seemed not to have. I'm sure things have come a long way since then for cats but for some reason the tri hull still steals my heart away! Thanks again for the info and picts. Mike --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III" wrote: > > Hi Mike , for info on the Tri you will have to write to the > Autor in the French Fisheries Museum , name and adress > in the pic . > I just uploaded 3 Monocat infopages in MonoCat Folder > in Files , same idea as Captain Jacques Cousteau's Alcyon > and designed by Jacques Fauroux I had the pleasure working > with in the seventhies ( in MonKini blessed South of France:-) > What size of boat are you interested in ? > Smaller boats have been designed around that Idea , > I was on such a Gary Hoyd designed boat in Annapolis , > realy great in a smaller package . > Old Ben > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "tronfixr" > wrote: > > > > Many thanks Ben! I see what you mean for the cat but I was > thinking of > > the Tri. > > > > Thanks again, > > > > Mike > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III" > wrote: > > > > > > This is realy old info from > > > the days handwriting was usual on plans :-) > > > I must have an original somewhere but the scan was made > > > from an A3 wich was already a reduction . > > > I lately had some old plans digitalised for Mac & PC, > > > 40 Euro for 1 larger sheet ( electronicaly cleaning included ) > > > sure aint a bargain price ! > > > I think all you can do is download it from Files ( the File > > > is complete ) print it on your A4 printer and have the sheet > > > enlarged in a Copy Center with an A3 or larger printer , > > > for me the A3 format if fine , if you have money to spend > > > go for the size you are happy with:-) > > > Old Ben > > > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "tronfixr" > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > I did a web search and came up dry. A name or web site > > > maybe? I can't > > > > read the writing. > > > > > > > > Thanks! > > > > > > > > Mike > > > > > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III" > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Sure , what do you want ? > > > > > Old Ben :-) > > > > > > > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "tronfixr" > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Ditto... > > > > > > > > > > > > Do you have any other info Ben? > > > > > > > > > > > > Mike > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "audeojude" > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > i like the aluminum fishing cat :) cool boat. :) looks > like > > > real > > > > > > > shallow draft also. > > > > > > > scott > > > > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III" > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2 more pics for Scott & Gosta in Photos > > > > > > > > Old Ben To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links a.. To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/ b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 6495|6472|2005-01-05 07:56:19|sae140|Re: Plexiglass|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "tronfixr" wrote: > > We have a master machienist around here whom introduced me to Lexan. He bends it like metal in a press without heat and it looks like glass. Sure, you *can* do this, but if you don't anneal it afterwards, it will eventually craze around that area. Some months back I bought a s/h auto-shade helmet with a curved lexan shield over the element. Even that modest amount of bending had caused crazing over several years. > Is there some reason not to use Lexan over Plexy? Horses for courses. Lexan is much stronger (meaning it will withstand more impact without deforming) than Plexi, but it's a softer material and scratches easily. Because it's soft, any attempts to polish out scratches just make 'em worse (in my experience, anyway). Prolonged exposure to sunlight causes fogging. Plexi is hard and so you can polish out scratches relatively easily. It's brittle, but if you need more strength, simply increase the thickness. Will craze (eventually) if not annealed after machining - which includes simple sawing and drilling. Take care when using solvents around this stuff. There have been several posts on this topic over the last few weeks. > BTW- he instructed me to dull the tips of the drill bit flutes when drilling soft materials like plastics to prevent the bit from grabing and breaking the material. I haven't done it but does sound like a good idea. Yes - there are several ways of preparing a suitable drill. Practice on a piece of scrap first. Also - use a red-hot needle rather than a centre-punch prior to drilling. All the best, Colin| 6496|6475|2005-01-05 07:59:27|sae140|Re: Transducer siting|Is it out of the question to mount it on the transom ? Many Garmin fish-finders are mounted this way. One less through-hull .... Colin --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "edward_stoneuk" wrote: > > Where is a good place for any through hull transducers in a BS 36, > especially with regards to turbulence possibly interferring with the > signal? > Regards, > Ted | 6497|6475|2005-01-05 10:54:41|Michael Casling|Re: Transducer siting|The transducer would be the only through hull, it is stuck to the inside of the hull and shoots through the hull. The other fittings are thru hull fittings that require a hole in the boat. If you put the transducer on the transom it will get turbulence and also come out of the water and cause drag. You can shoot through quite a large thickness. Having said all that I have used them on thick fibreglass and thin aluminium hulls not steel. Michael ----- Original Message ----- From: sae140 To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2005 4:59 AM Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Transducer siting Is it out of the question to mount it on the transom ? Many Garmin fish-finders are mounted this way. One less through-hull .... Colin --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "edward_stoneuk" wrote: > > Where is a good place for any through hull transducers in a BS 36, > especially with regards to turbulence possibly interferring with the > signal? > Regards, > Ted To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links a.. To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/ b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 6498|6475|2005-01-05 12:09:02|sae140|Re: Transducer siting|Hi Michael regret you can't shoot through steel - f'glass and wood are ok, but you still lose some resolution. I had reservations about transom turbulence when researching this last week, but Garmin claim it's not a problem - even on power boats - but they're selling 'em of course .... A breakaway fixing is recommended. Colin --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Michael Casling wrote: > The transducer would be the only through hull, it is stuck to the inside of the hull and shoots through the hull. The other fittings are thru hull fittings that require a hole in the boat. If you put the transducer on the transom it will get turbulence and also come out of the water and cause drag. You can shoot through quite a large thickness. Having said all that I have used them on thick fibreglass and thin aluminium hulls not steel. > Michael > ----- Original Message ----- > From: sae140 > To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2005 4:59 AM > Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Transducer siting > > > > Is it out of the question to mount it on the transom ? Many Garmin > fish-finders are mounted this way. One less through-hull .... > > Colin > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "edward_stoneuk" > wrote: > > > > Where is a good place for any through hull transducers in a BS 36, > > especially with regards to turbulence possibly interferring with > the > > signal? > > Regards, > > Ted > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats- unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------- > Yahoo! Groups Links > > a.. To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/ > > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 6499|6475|2005-01-05 15:25:43|bilgekeeldave|Re: Transducer siting|On my Brent Swain 31, I put the depth sounder transducer just to the starbord of the engine, in the engine compartment. It is protected by the bilge keels and the curve of the hull. I can easily look at it to check for leaks. I had to make a fiberglass spacer so that it would point straight downward. I made the mold from cardboard and cut it to fit the hull. I bedded everything with Sikaflex. It has not leaked in the 21 years since I installed it. Dave --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "edward_stoneuk" wrote: > > Where is a good place for any through hull transducers in a BS 36, > especially with regards to turbulence possibly interferring with the > signal? > Regards, > Ted | 6500|6500|2005-01-05 16:36:14|vega1944|Cost of Steel|Anyone have any idea what the present cost of steel for a BS36 would run in C$. Thanks| 6501|6500|2005-01-05 19:42:15|brentswain38|Re: Cost of Steel|Alex paid around $9500cdn in june for the basic shell. Detail scrap stainless depends on which scrapyards you deal with. Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "vega1944" wrote: > > Anyone have any idea what the present cost of steel for a BS36 would run in C$. Thanks | 6502|6475|2005-01-05 19:51:59|brentswain38|Re: Transducer siting|You could mount it on the transom as long as it sticks slightly below the botttom corner of the transom and is outside the prop wash. I've often thought of one of those transom mounted depthsounders called " Fisherman's Buddy. It goes 18 hours on three C batteries and mounts like an outboard. You could put a vertical pipe from the bottom of the cockpit to the hull to put it thru . C batteries can be hard to find in the South Pacific, but AA batteries are the same length and if you put them in a 3 /4 inch plastic hose barb, have the same diameter. I've used this arrangement for a C battery radio , with no problems. Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "bilgekeeldave" wrote: > > On my Brent Swain 31, I put the depth sounder transducer just to the > starbord of the engine, in the engine compartment. It is protected > by the bilge keels and the curve of the hull. I can easily look at > it to check for leaks. I had to make a fiberglass spacer so that it > would point straight downward. I made the mold from cardboard and > cut it to fit the hull. I bedded everything with Sikaflex. It has > not leaked in the 21 years since I installed it. > > Dave > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "edward_stoneuk" > wrote: > > > > Where is a good place for any through hull transducers in a BS 36, > > especially with regards to turbulence possibly interferring with > the > > signal? > > Regards, > > Ted | 6503|6503|2005-01-05 20:14:55|richytill|ice breakers|A boat was sinking down at the dock today. The planked hull had split open like bannana peelings as she tried to push out through the ice that is thickening accross Porpoise Bay. She was down at the bow as the boys put extra pumps on board. As this scene unfolded, a steel tug was breaking up thin floes to let the 3 resident De Havilland Beaver float planes take off. Fibreglass boats gingerly nudge around or say tied up for the day. Aluminum work boats hammer through the sheet of solidified water with cargoes of loggers home from the bush. Hulls of ductile metal rule here--the picture tells the story. Steel hulls preside king at this temprature with aluminum following colosely in the shattered icy wake. Wood boats stay home. rt| 6504|6472|2005-01-05 20:15:07|Gary H. Lucas|Re: Plexiglass|You don't dull the drill bit. You change the rake angle. Hold a stone parallel to the axis of the drill bit and stroke it in the same direction a couple of times on each cutting edge. The edge will still be sharp but will no longer have a hook. This technique works very well in plastics of all kinds. It works REALLY well in fiberglass! No ragged tear on break through. It also is the only good way to drill copper. I've drilled 1/2 holes through 2" of solid copper using this technique and the holes had really smooth bores. Gary H. Lucas| 6505|6505|2005-01-05 21:18:40|blueiceicle|grinding /zip disks|Would anyone care to take a educated guess as to how many. Grinding disks / zip cuts are ruffly needed to build a 36ft? I know it this depends on many factors, but im quite curious.. Last i checked grinding disks are not that cheap and zip cuts even more $$. Thanks. Jesse| 6506|6506|2005-01-05 21:22:24|blueiceicle|Skeg Cooling|Just wondering if the skeg needs a protective coating on the inside to protect from corrosion. If so whats a good way to go about this? Im sorry if i missed a post on this topic already Thanks Jesse| 6507|6507|2005-01-05 21:25:17|blueiceicle|Twin Keel Tankage 26ft|I guess this is going out to Brent or anyone who has built a 26ft. Is there any usable tankage in the twin keels? If so any idea as to how much? Thanks for the help... Once again, i appoligize if i missed a posting on this Jesse| 6508|6505|2005-01-05 21:36:25|Courtney Thomas|Re: grinding /zip disks|What is a zip disk please ? Thank you, Courtney blueiceicle wrote: > > Would anyone care to take a educated guess as to how many. > Grinding disks / zip cuts are ruffly needed to build a 36ft? > > I know it this depends on many factors, but im quite curious.. > Last i checked grinding disks are not that cheap and zip cuts even > more $$. > > Thanks. > > Jesse > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > -- s/v Mutiny Rhodes Bounty II lying Oriental, NC WDB5619| 6509|6505|2005-01-05 21:51:23|blueiceicle|Re: grinding /zip disks|A Zip disk is also called a Zip Cut... Its a disk you put on a angle grinder and it cuts metal..unlike a grinding disk that grinds, but can cut. Jesse| 6510|6505|2005-01-06 04:47:35|sae140|Re: grinding /zip disks|Cutting disks (a.k.a. zip disks) *are* very expensive retail, especially in the big sheds ..... One trick is to buy an intermediate size angle grinder, say a 6 - 7", then buy 9" disks from a trade outlet and after wearing 'em down, transfer what's left to the 6/7", and then on to the 4.5". You can save a heap of money this way. A lot cheaper if you buy disks at boot sales, where odd sizes can be got cheap. I've bought 5" disks for next to nothing, 'cause they won't fit standard grinders. The vendor still thought he was screwin' me .... Buying a 6" grinder was the best investment I ever made - but you won't find 'em for sale on the high street. Another tip - if you have a 4" grinder (which takes a smaller size shank disk than the 4.5"), simply make up a washer to fit between the shank of the 4" and the larger disk hole. Then you can buy 4.5" disks which are more common, and thus cheaper. BTW - *never* use a cutting disk for grinding, as they don't have any resistance to 'bending', and will shatter. Colin| 6511|6506|2005-01-06 05:59:29|Alfredo Nannetti|Re: Skeg Cooling|We close it with a piece of welded steel on the top with a little hole and cork (nut plus bolt). Than we put oil. Don't use burnt oil from engine becouse its corrosive. Ciao alfredo > Just wondering if the skeg needs a protective coating on the inside to > protect from corrosion. If so whats a good way to go about this? > > Im sorry if i missed a post on this topic already > > Thanks Jesse > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > --------------------~--> Give the gift of life to a sick child. > Support St. Jude Children's Research Hospital's 'Thanks & Giving.' > http://us.click.yahoo.com/5iY7fA/6WnJAA/Y3ZIAA/YmoolB/TM > --------------------------------------------------------------------~- > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > | 6512|6512|2005-01-06 11:10:18|edward_stoneuk|Fuel tanks and spillage|Nowadays, in many places, one can get heavily fined for spilling fuel into the water and it is wise to have a bund around one's fuel fillers to try and avoid spills. The bund will need a water proof cover to keep water from building up over the filler cap. One also needs a dip stick. With bilge keel fuel tanks this is quite difficult to organise without having toe stubbers on deck or a forest of pipes leading down to the tanks. Has anybody got any ideas or experience in the location of dip sticks, fillers and breathers for bilge or indeed any fuel tanks? Also any ideas on the use of flexible hoses to and from the fillers, breathers etc? Regards, Ted| 6513|6512|2005-01-06 12:12:56|denis buggy|Re: Fuel tanks and spillage|dear Ted you must use oil /fuel delivery hose which is rated for that purpose only .you may pick up some good used from your local oil distributor as their delivery hoses are long and must be replaced at the first signs of wear which may only be at the delivery end and these hoses are pressure rated also . you will not need pressure rating for your purpose however you must use the metal clamps used to clamp the hose to its pipe and these usually have two 10 mm bolts fitted to each clamp as the sidewall of this hose are thick and need serious clamping forces to keep it from leaking . once fitted you should not have to go near it for many years . Denis ----- Original Message ----- From: edward_stoneuk To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2005 4:09 PM Subject: [origamiboats] Fuel tanks and spillage Nowadays, in many places, one can get heavily fined for spilling fuel into the water and it is wise to have a bund around one's fuel fillers to try and avoid spills. The bund will need a water proof cover to keep water from building up over the filler cap. One also needs a dip stick. With bilge keel fuel tanks this is quite difficult to organise without having toe stubbers on deck or a forest of pipes leading down to the tanks. Has anybody got any ideas or experience in the location of dip sticks, fillers and breathers for bilge or indeed any fuel tanks? Also any ideas on the use of flexible hoses to and from the fillers, breathers etc? Regards, Ted To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links a.. To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/ b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 6514|6503|2005-01-06 14:23:44|brentswain38|Re: ice breakers|In nov 1985 I got frozen in at Manson's Lagoon in five inches of ice. I had to break thru roughly 1/4 mile of five inch ice, backing and ramming it for three days. The boat would , at 5 knots , climb onto about three feet of ice each time I rammed it, then with her weight , break down thru it.I was surprised how little dammage it did to the paint job, barely chipping it off the stem and leading edges of the keels. The rest of the epoxy just rode over it undammaged.My three strand nylon anchor rode suffered no dammage at all, but was as white as new where it passed thru the ice.It felt like riding a bulldozer over a pile of boulders, and made roughly the same sound. Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "richytill" wrote: > > A boat was sinking down at the dock today. The planked hull had > split open like bannana peelings as she tried to push out through the > ice that is thickening accross Porpoise Bay. She was down at the bow > as the boys put extra pumps on board. > > As this scene unfolded, a steel tug was breaking up thin floes to let > the 3 resident De Havilland Beaver float planes take off. Fibreglass > boats gingerly nudge around or say tied up for the day. Aluminum > work boats hammer through the sheet of solidified water with cargoes > of loggers home from the bush. > > Hulls of ductile metal rule here--the picture tells the story. Steel > hulls preside king at this temprature with aluminum following > colosely in the shattered icy wake. Wood boats stay home. rt | 6515|6506|2005-01-06 14:28:06|brentswain38|Re: Skeg Cooling|A 50 -50 mix of antifreeze for coolant is all the corrosion protection you need.There is no need to paint the inside and painting it would run the risk of paint chipping off and plugging the channels in the engine head.A screen on the inlet line to the engine is still a good idea.Change your coolant once a year to keep it effective as anticorrosion. Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "blueiceicle" wrote: > > Just wondering if the skeg needs a protective coating on the inside > to protect from corrosion. If so whats a good way to go about this? > > Im sorry if i missed a post on this topic already > > Thanks Jesse | 6516|6507|2005-01-06 14:30:15|brentswain38|Re: Twin Keel Tankage 26ft|There is a bit of useable tankage in the twin keels, but I can't say offhand how much.It wouldn't be a lot.After you have your ballast in you could check it with a five gallon bucket and a hose.You'd want to dry it out a bit after with the tiger torch before going any further. Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "blueiceicle" wrote: > > I guess this is going out to Brent or anyone who has built a 26ft. > > Is there any usable tankage in the twin keels? If so any idea as to > how much? > Thanks for the help... > > Once again, i appoligize if i missed a posting on this > > Jesse | 6517|6512|2005-01-06 14:38:25|brentswain38|Re: Fuel tanks and spillage|Lately I've been puting the fillers in the back of the cockpit with 16 inch high standpipes to get them accessible. That way the pipe caps are at the top of the back end of the propane locker,on the centreline, and well out of the way. Putting an inpection window in the top of the inspection plate gives you a full view of the inside of fuel tanks , any time. I put a couple of 180 degree by 1/4 inch pipe bends on either side of the main hatch, for tank vents, then hook them up to the tanks before foaming. Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "edward_stoneuk" wrote: > > Nowadays, in many places, one can get heavily fined for spilling > fuel into the water and it is wise to have a bund around one's fuel > fillers to try and avoid spills. The bund will need a water proof > cover to keep water from building up over the filler cap. One also > needs a dip stick. With bilge keel fuel tanks this is quite > difficult to organise without having toe stubbers on deck or a > forest of pipes leading down to the tanks. Has anybody got any > ideas or experience in the location of dip sticks, fillers and > breathers for bilge or indeed any fuel tanks? Also any ideas on the > use of flexible hoses to and from the fillers, breathers etc? > Regards, > Ted | 6518|6506|2005-01-06 15:12:28|Paul Cotter|Re: Skeg Cooling|Hi folks, Excuse the ignorance, but when skeg cooling, is the skeg just a reservoir for coolant? Perhaps I was making it too complex by assuming one would run a convoluted heat exchanger line in the skeg. Paul -----Original Message----- From: brentswain38 [mailto:brentswain38@...] Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2005 10:27 AM To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Skeg Cooling A 50 -50 mix of antifreeze for coolant is all the corrosion protection you need.There is no need to paint the inside and painting it would run the risk of paint chipping off and plugging the channels in the engine head.A screen on the inlet line to the engine is still a good idea.Change your coolant once a year to keep it effective as anticorrosion. Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "blueiceicle" wrote: > > Just wondering if the skeg needs a protective coating on the inside > to protect from corrosion. If so whats a good way to go about this? > > Im sorry if i missed a post on this topic already > > Thanks Jesse To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com _____ Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]| 6519|6512|2005-01-06 18:55:52|edward_stoneuk|Re: Fuel tanks and spillage|Thanks Brent, What do you use for the windows in the tank tops? Do they take the place of dip sticks? Regards, Ted| 6520|6505|2005-01-06 21:12:50|kingsknight4life|Re: grinding /zip disks|Hi Jessie I don't know how many but it is ALOT! One way too make this cheaper is to buy them in bulk from welding shops. They'll give you a price break on a box basis. Also princess auto sells cutting disks and grinding disks for $1 ea. That's WAY less than the standard $3-$4 ea. that most places charge. Canadaian tire sells a pack with 5 zips, 14 grinding, a flex pad, wire brush, flapdisc, 5 sandpaper discs and a wire cup brush for $70. WAYCHEAPER than if bought separately. Finally I heard that if you remove the guard you can use the discs until they almost disapear. But be VERY CAREFUL as they cut through coveralls and people very easily.Good luck Rowland| 6521|6450|2005-01-07 02:11:46|T & D CAIN|Re: buoys - was BC Charts|The IALA system as known in Oz. - - - - - With ref. to manual of yacht navigation (J.E. Toghill) Port and Starboard hand as referred to in the International System of Buoyage, is the port or starboard side of a vessel as she enters harbour with the main flood stream. Thus a starboard hand buoy is a buoy to be passed on the starboard side of a vessel entering the port in the flood stream direction, and on the port side leaving the harbour. Seems simple enough? There are, apparently, local variations to the IALA, hopefully not left out of the Sailing Directions for the ports concerned. Terry -----Original Message----- From: sae140 [mailto:colinpowell@...] Sent: Wednesday, 5 January 2005 01:24 To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Subject: [origamiboats] Re: buoys - was BC Charts Well - this is buoy stuff is driving me barmy - so as they say "when all else fails, read the book." Reed's Nautical Almanac (very much a European publication) states: "International Buoyage is harmonised into a single system which, applied to Regions A and B, differs only in the use of red and green lateral marks. In Region A (which includes all Europe) lateral marks are red on the port hand, and in Region B red on the starboard hand, related to direction of buoyage." "International Association of Lighthouse Authorities - Region B Buoyage System, is found in the Eastern Pacific, Atlantic and Pacific Coasts of North and South America, the Great Lakes, the Caribbean, Japan, Philippines and the Republic of Korea. Most of the rest of the world follows the IALA-A system (green right returning) which is found in the remainder of the Western Pacific, Indian Ocean, Atlantic Coasts of Africa and Europe, and the Mediterranean." Confusion over. BTW - in UK waters, Diver Down = International 'A' flag, in the Med they fly Red with a White diagonal. Colin --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Sailor" wrote: > Diver down is "code" pennant and "alpha" flag, or so we were taught.... > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Michael Casling" > To: > Sent: Monday, January 03, 2005 10:44 AM > Subject: Re: [origamiboats] Re: buoys - was BC Charts > > > > > > It has always been red right returining as far as I know. The one that > does get messed up over here is the diver down. The test has more than one > correct answer depending where you take the test. I got it wrong in > Vancouver BC but I gave the correct answer. There is confusion over what is > the international flag and what is being used. Blue white and red white. > There was also a notice a few years ago about the red right returning but I > believe it had to do with the water flow. There is an easy way to remember > the cardinal buoys but I forgot it. > > Michael > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: sae140 > > To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Monday, January 03, 2005 6:16 AM > > Subject: [origamiboats] Re: buoys - was BC Charts > > > > > > > > > > Crikey - I've found another one: > > http://www.sailingusa.info/basic_navigation.htm > > which - although my first post was tongue in cheek, suggests that > > there actually *is* a colour reversal. > > > > In European waters, port-hand buoys are most definitely red cans and > > are kept to port when entering a channel from seaward, starboard > > buoys are green and cone-shaped .... > > > > Can anyone from the other side of the pond confirm this difference ? > > > > Colin > > > > > > > Nah - you missed it ... they're teaching their students > > > that "starboard-hand buoys are red, and port-hand buoys are > > green". > > > At least they got the shapes right ... > > > > > > Colin > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ -------- > ---- > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > a.. To visit your group on the web, go to: > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/ > > > > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > Service. > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links | 6522|6522|2005-01-07 03:12:36|wendyfrancesparker|Electronic Island: for rent, buy/sell, jobs|All members of origamiboats are invited to join the following Victoria based online classifieds group: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/electronicisland Electronic Island is a group for posting items for sale, want ads, rentals, or jobs. (all postings are free) Wendy| 6523|6506|2005-01-07 08:27:00|edward_stoneuk|Re: Skeg Cooling|Paul, The skeg itself is used as the heat exchanger. Hot water from the engine inside the skeg being cooled by the water the boat floats in. Regards, Ted| 6524|6507|2005-01-07 09:16:21|sae140|Re: Twin Keel Tankage 26ft|One way of increasing the tankage in the bilge keels, as well as getting the weight down as low as posible might be to install the ballast in keel bulbs (torpedoes). Obviously this would depend on Brent's views, but to get a feel for the dimensions involved, a pair of 50" long 10" dia. torpedoes would hold 7857 lbs of lead, and a pair of 12" would hold 11314 lbs. To interchange weights and volumes at the press of a button, check out: http://www.allmeasures.com/Formulae/static/formulae/density/20.htm which will tell you how many teaspoonfuls of lead there are in a ton, or how many gallon buckets that would be - just in case you ever wondered (!). Colin --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "brentswain38" wrote: > > There is a bit of useable tankage in the twin keels, but I can't say > offhand how much.It wouldn't be a lot.After you have your ballast in > you could check it with a five gallon bucket and a hose.You'd want to > dry it out a bit after with the tiger torch before going any further. > Brent > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "blueiceicle" > wrote: > > > > I guess this is going out to Brent or anyone who has built a 26ft. > > > > Is there any usable tankage in the twin keels? If so any idea as to > > how much? > > Thanks for the help... > > > > Once again, i appoligize if i missed a posting on this > > > > Jesse | 6525|6450|2005-01-07 09:41:52|sae140|Re: buoys - was BC Charts|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "T & D CAIN" wrote: > The IALA system as known in Oz. - - - - - With ref. to manual of yacht > navigation (J.E. Toghill) > > Port and Starboard hand as referred to in the International System of > Buoyage, is the port or starboard side of a vessel as she enters harbour > with the main flood stream. Thus a starboard hand buoy is a buoy to be > passed on the starboard side of a vessel entering the port in the flood > stream direction, and on the port side leaving the harbour. > Seems simple enough? It's the colour of these buoys which has caused the confusion. In Europe a port-hand buoy is RED, whereas in North America a port-hand buoy is GREEN, although the shapes remain the same. > There are, apparently, local variations to the IALA, hopefully not left out > of the Sailing Directions for the ports concerned. There may well be local variations as well, but I was suprised to learn that there are 2 IALA systems (A and B), especially as this variation seems never to have been mentioned before on any international chat forum. Colin| 6526|6450|2005-01-07 10:18:00|edward_stoneuk|Re: buoys - was BC Charts|Colin, The difference in buoyage between the new and old worlds was mentioned in my RYA navigation course and as you say in Reed's Almanac. I guess it is one of those things that doesn't matter unless you are voyaging to different waters and so is not discussed much, like driving on the wrong side of the road or the difference in electric plugs. All part of life's rich tapestry. Regards, Ted| 6527|6506|2005-01-07 13:27:08|richytill|Re: Skeg Cooling|Ted, my son and I sea tested our motor set-up on New Years Eve. Under sustained full load at 3300 rpm, the water returning from the skeg was as cold as the bare plate on the hull next to the engine. The skeg works well. Other results are as follows: Coolant exiting hot = 172 F at all speeds and loads; oil temp still an issue at 190--210 F (plan to install longer heat exchanger); speed at 3300 rpm = 5.7 knots. Conclusions: It is possible to machine a flywheel to fit the crank on a 16D VW engine and fit Borg Warner transmission. Engine oil cooling is a must. A welded-in-hull chamber for cooling transmission fluid is an asset. A 2.5:1 reduction would be likely be a better choice than 1.5:1. Dry exhaust/underwater outlet is not a problem. An new Isuzu 3 cyl would be a better unit if one could afford it. That said, VW parts are readilly available world wide and good used or rebuilt engines seem reasonable. I will continue with this experiment and post more results as the project develops. rt --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "edward_stoneuk" wrote: > > Paul, > The skeg itself is used as the heat exchanger. Hot water from the > engine inside the skeg being cooled by the water the boat floats in. > Regards, > Ted | 6528|6506|2005-01-07 14:16:19|edward_stoneuk|Re: Skeg Cooling|Richy, Is that the engine oil temperature or the transmission oil temperature? In my Daihatsu CL Marine Diesel instruction manual it gives the transmission oil temperature for steady running as 80~100° C with an allowed momentary rise to 115°C, which is about what you have got. It seems high to me. Do you know what is says in the book for your transmission? How have you configured your exhaust, do you have a muffler on it? Regards, Ted| 6529|6529|2005-01-07 14:34:27|Gary|Hatch Finishing|Have heard a few opinions about how to finish inside of hatch covers including companionway hatch. I was wondering about just using some kind of adhesive applied to styrofoam sm 2" and attach it to the stainless inside of hatch....then gluing 1/4" ply on the outside of the styrofoam. Some pics of finishing off hatches would be great... also opinions. Thanks.. Gary| 6530|6529|2005-01-07 16:55:21|brentswain38|Re: Hatch Finishing|Glueing styrofoam will work well, but I'd find something lighter than 1/4 inch ply, like vinyl upholstery. One client had a very light aluminium hatch , then put enough gumwood , etc on it , to make it as heavy as a steel hatch. Nothing that a few minutes with a crowbar wouldn't cure, but why go to all that trouble in the first place. Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Gary" wrote: > > Have heard a few opinions about how to finish inside of hatch covers > including companionway hatch. I was wondering about just using some > kind of adhesive applied to styrofoam sm 2" and attach it to the > stainless inside of hatch....then gluing 1/4" ply on the outside of > the styrofoam. Some pics of finishing off hatches would be great... > also opinions. > > Thanks.. Gary | 6531|6512|2005-01-07 16:57:52|brentswain38|Re: Fuel tanks and spillage|I use plexi, on the inside of the inspection plate.It is a substitute for a dipstick, but putting a vertical stick in the tank near the window may make it easier to see the depth of the fuel. Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "edward_stoneuk" wrote: > > Thanks Brent, > > What do you use for the windows in the tank tops? Do they take the > place of dip sticks? > > Regards, > Ted | 6532|6507|2005-01-07 17:02:49|brentswain38|Re: Twin Keel Tankage 26ft|Torpedoes would work, but would be a, lot of work for very little gain. Using old large oxygen bottles as a starting point in fabricating torpedoes would save a lot of work. I don't know how available they are in scrapyards. Fanning Island has piles of them everywhere, but getting them home is a bit of a problem. Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "sae140" wrote: > > > One way of increasing the tankage in the bilge keels, as well as > getting the weight down as low as posible might be to install the > ballast in keel bulbs (torpedoes). > Obviously this would depend on Brent's views, but to get a feel for > the dimensions involved, a pair of 50" long 10" dia. torpedoes would > hold 7857 lbs of lead, and a pair of 12" would hold 11314 lbs. > > To interchange weights and volumes at the press of a button, check > out: > http://www.allmeasures.com/Formulae/static/formulae/density/20.htm > which will tell you how many teaspoonfuls of lead there are in a ton, > or how many gallon buckets that would be - just in case you ever > wondered (!). > > Colin > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "brentswain38" > wrote: > > > > There is a bit of useable tankage in the twin keels, but I can't > say > > offhand how much.It wouldn't be a lot.After you have your ballast > in > > you could check it with a five gallon bucket and a hose.You'd want > to > > dry it out a bit after with the tiger torch before going any > further. > > Brent > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "blueiceicle" > > wrote: > > > > > > I guess this is going out to Brent or anyone who has built a > 26ft. > > > > > > Is there any usable tankage in the twin keels? If so any idea as > to > > > how much? > > > Thanks for the help... > > > > > > Once again, i appoligize if i missed a posting on this > > > > > > Jesse | 6533|6506|2005-01-08 13:02:25|Paul Cotter|Online welding manual|HI folks, Some months ago someone in the group provided a link to an Army training circular for welding. That link is no longer working. Or at least it isn’t working for me. If anyone cares, it can now be found at: http://www.fortunecity.com/village/lind/247/weld_book/toc.htm Cheers To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com _____ Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]| 6534|6450|2005-01-08 20:37:26|T & D CAIN|Re: buoys - was BC Charts|Good heavens! I don't fancy drinking 'green port'. The linkage between red and port wine sticks from both the nav. training for boats and for flying aeroplanes at night. Happily, all aircraft encountered at night so far use one international standard for navigation light colours and ground signal lighting! Terry -----Original Message----- From: sae140 [mailto:colinpowell@...] Sent: Saturday, 8 January 2005 00:12 To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Subject: [origamiboats] Re: buoys - was BC Charts --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "T & D CAIN" wrote: > The IALA system as known in Oz. - - - - - With ref. to manual of yacht > navigation (J.E. Toghill) > > Port and Starboard hand as referred to in the International System of > Buoyage, is the port or starboard side of a vessel as she enters harbour > with the main flood stream. Thus a starboard hand buoy is a buoy to be > passed on the starboard side of a vessel entering the port in the flood > stream direction, and on the port side leaving the harbour. > Seems simple enough? It's the colour of these buoys which has caused the confusion. In Europe a port-hand buoy is RED, whereas in North America a port-hand buoy is GREEN, although the shapes remain the same. > There are, apparently, local variations to the IALA, hopefully not left out > of the Sailing Directions for the ports concerned. There may well be local variations as well, but I was suprised to learn that there are 2 IALA systems (A and B), especially as this variation seems never to have been mentioned before on any international chat forum. Colin ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Give the gift of life to a sick child. Support St. Jude Children's Research Hospital's 'Thanks & Giving.' http://us.click.yahoo.com/5iY7fA/6WnJAA/Y3ZIAA/YmoolB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links | 6535|6507|2005-01-09 09:10:19|sae140|Re: Twin Keel Tankage 26ft|I was offered a couple of 6ft bottles for a tenner each recently, but after asking around I decided against buying, as no-one seemed to know what grade the steel is, or how it will weld. One big advantage of torpedoes made from steel tube would be the installing of ballast - either melt the lead directly into the up- ended (and well-braced) tube, or melt the lead into slugs of the same diameter and pack 'em in afterwards, much as WWII battleship cannons were loaded with cordite etc. (I've already made a few 50lb lead slugs this way using only a domestic cooker.) It would certainly be a challenge trying to fabricate bullet-shaped end caps. Colin --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "brentswain38" wrote: > > Torpedoes would work, but would be a, lot of work for very little > gain. Using old large oxygen bottles as a starting point in > fabricating torpedoes would save a lot of work. I don't know how > available they are in scrapyards. Fanning Island has piles of them > everywhere, but getting them home is a bit of a problem. > Brent > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "sae140" > wrote: > > > > > > One way of increasing the tankage in the bilge keels, as well as > > getting the weight down as low as posible might be to install the > > ballast in keel bulbs (torpedoes). > > Obviously this would depend on Brent's views, but to get a feel for > > the dimensions involved, a pair of 50" long 10" dia. torpedoes > would > > hold 7857 lbs of lead, and a pair of 12" would hold 11314 lbs. > > > > To interchange weights and volumes at the press of a button, check > > out: > > http://www.allmeasures.com/Formulae/static/formulae/density/20.htm > > which will tell you how many teaspoonfuls of lead there are in a > ton, > > or how many gallon buckets that would be - just in case you ever > > wondered (!). > > > > Colin > > > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "brentswain38" > > wrote: > > > > > > There is a bit of useable tankage in the twin keels, but I can't > > say > > > offhand how much.It wouldn't be a lot.After you have your ballast > > in > > > you could check it with a five gallon bucket and a hose.You'd > want > > to > > > dry it out a bit after with the tiger torch before going any > > further. > > > Brent > > > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "blueiceicle" > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > I guess this is going out to Brent or anyone who has built a > > 26ft. > > > > > > > > Is there any usable tankage in the twin keels? If so any idea > as > > to > > > > how much? > > > > Thanks for the help... > > > > > > > > Once again, i appoligize if i missed a posting on this > > > > > > > > Jesse | 6536|6507|2005-01-09 10:18:54|Puck III|Re: Twin Keel Tankage 26ft|Hi Colin, are you actualy building a 26ft ? Old Ben --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "sae140" wrote: > > I was offered a couple of 6ft bottles for a tenner each recently, but > after asking around I decided against buying, as no-one seemed to > know what grade the steel is, or how it will weld. > > One big advantage of torpedoes made from steel tube would be the > installing of ballast - either melt the lead directly into the up- > ended (and well-braced) tube, or melt the lead into slugs of the same > diameter and pack 'em in afterwards, much as WWII battleship cannons > were loaded with cordite etc. (I've already made a few 50lb lead > slugs this way using only a domestic cooker.) > It would certainly be a challenge trying to fabricate bullet-shaped > end caps. > > Colin > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "brentswain38" > wrote: > > > > Torpedoes would work, but would be a, lot of work for very little > > gain. Using old large oxygen bottles as a starting point in > > fabricating torpedoes would save a lot of work. I don't know how > > available they are in scrapyards. Fanning Island has piles of them > > everywhere, but getting them home is a bit of a problem. > > Brent > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "sae140" > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > One way of increasing the tankage in the bilge keels, as well as > > > getting the weight down as low as posible might be to install the > > > ballast in keel bulbs (torpedoes). > > > Obviously this would depend on Brent's views, but to get a feel > for > > > the dimensions involved, a pair of 50" long 10" dia. torpedoes > > would > > > hold 7857 lbs of lead, and a pair of 12" would hold 11314 lbs. > > > > > > To interchange weights and volumes at the press of a button, > check > > > out: > > > http://www.allmeasures.com/Formulae/static/formulae/density/2 0.htm > > > which will tell you how many teaspoonfuls of lead there are in a > > ton, > > > or how many gallon buckets that would be - just in case you ever > > > wondered (!). > > > > > > Colin > > > > > > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "brentswain38" > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > There is a bit of useable tankage in the twin keels, but I > can't > > > say > > > > offhand how much.It wouldn't be a lot.After you have your > ballast > > > in > > > > you could check it with a five gallon bucket and a hose.You'd > > want > > > to > > > > dry it out a bit after with the tiger torch before going any > > > further. > > > > Brent > > > > > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "blueiceicle" > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > I guess this is going out to Brent or anyone who has built a > > > 26ft. > > > > > > > > > > Is there any usable tankage in the twin keels? If so any idea > > as > > > to > > > > > how much? > > > > > Thanks for the help... > > > > > > > > > > Once again, i appoligize if i missed a posting on this > > > > > > > > > > Jesse | 6537|6507|2005-01-09 17:01:33|sae140|Re: Twin Keel Tankage 26ft|Hello Ben No, sadly my frame wouldn't fit in a 26. Colin --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III" wrote: > > Hi Colin, are you actualy building a 26ft ? > Old Ben | 6538|6507|2005-01-09 18:39:17|Gary H. Lucas|Re: Twin Keel Tankage 26ft|Bullet shaped ends aren't that tough at all. Cut some curved V grooves in the end of the pipe leaving 4 to six 'petals' and just beat them in using a sledge hammer, then weld the joints. I used to make 'bullets' for vibratory plows used to pull pipe and cable underground this way. Which reminds me of another useful trick. Have you ever fitted up some parts and wound up with a 1/4 gap that you just know is going to be a bitch to fill? If you stick weld, try using two rods at once. Take a rod and beat off all the flux so you just have the metal rod. Put the other normal rod in the stinger and weld by pushing the rod up the joint instead of dragging along the joint. Feed the rod with no flux into the joint as you would when Tig welding or brazing. This does two things. It puts a whole lot of filler metal in the big gap quickly. But more importantly it cools the weld puddle rapidly so it won't sag or run. Stick welding doesn't offer exacting heat control of the puddle like you get in Tig. This allows you to control the heat. I've done this trick on flat surfaces, on vertical welds (welding up) and even on the side of vertical surfaces. Gary H. Lucas ----- Original Message ----- From: "sae140" To: Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2005 9:10 AM Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Twin Keel Tankage 26ft > > > I was offered a couple of 6ft bottles for a tenner each recently, but > after asking around I decided against buying, as no-one seemed to > know what grade the steel is, or how it will weld. > > One big advantage of torpedoes made from steel tube would be the > installing of ballast - either melt the lead directly into the up- > ended (and well-braced) tube, or melt the lead into slugs of the same > diameter and pack 'em in afterwards, much as WWII battleship cannons > were loaded with cordite etc. (I've already made a few 50lb lead > slugs this way using only a domestic cooker.) > It would certainly be a challenge trying to fabricate bullet-shaped > end caps. > > Colin > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "brentswain38" > wrote: >> >> Torpedoes would work, but would be a, lot of work for very little >> gain. Using old large oxygen bottles as a starting point in >> fabricating torpedoes would save a lot of work. I don't know how >> available they are in scrapyards. Fanning Island has piles of them >> everywhere, but getting them home is a bit of a problem. >> Brent >> >> --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "sae140" >> wrote: >> > >> > >> > One way of increasing the tankage in the bilge keels, as well as >> > getting the weight down as low as posible might be to install the >> > ballast in keel bulbs (torpedoes). >> > Obviously this would depend on Brent's views, but to get a feel > for >> > the dimensions involved, a pair of 50" long 10" dia. torpedoes >> would >> > hold 7857 lbs of lead, and a pair of 12" would hold 11314 lbs. >> > >> > To interchange weights and volumes at the press of a button, > check >> > out: >> > http://www.allmeasures.com/Formulae/static/formulae/density/20.htm >> > which will tell you how many teaspoonfuls of lead there are in a >> ton, >> > or how many gallon buckets that would be - just in case you ever >> > wondered (!). >> > >> > Colin >> > >> > >> > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "brentswain38" >> > wrote: >> > > >> > > There is a bit of useable tankage in the twin keels, but I > can't >> > say >> > > offhand how much.It wouldn't be a lot.After you have your > ballast >> > in >> > > you could check it with a five gallon bucket and a hose.You'd >> want >> > to >> > > dry it out a bit after with the tiger torch before going any >> > further. >> > > Brent >> > > >> > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "blueiceicle" >> >> > > wrote: >> > > > >> > > > I guess this is going out to Brent or anyone who has built a >> > 26ft. >> > > > >> > > > Is there any usable tankage in the twin keels? If so any idea >> as >> > to >> > > > how much? >> > > > Thanks for the help... >> > > > >> > > > Once again, i appoligize if i missed a posting on this >> > > > >> > > > Jesse > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > | 6539|6539|2005-01-09 23:54:47|blueiceicle|Built in Tankage|Just curious how to go about coating the inside of a built in tank... Im just cant see how to protect a built in tank on a sailboat..when the space that would be ideal to use may prove hard to access once sealed. What method is used to construct build in tankage? I hope this post isnt to vague... Thanks for the help Jesse| 6540|6507|2005-01-10 00:03:17|blueiceicle|Re: Twin Keel Tankage 26ft|Im curious to know whether torpedo style keels would be much of a advantage? If you were to put them on say a swain model twin keeler.. Would you shorten the length of the keels to accomodate the height of the torpedos? If in fact you did shorten them, would this not affect the way the keel performs? I also wonder if having that much more material attatched to the hull would create more drag and ultimatly compromise hull speed? Sorry thats alot of questions there, but i just cant help but wonder. regards Jesse| 6541|6541|2005-01-10 00:07:57|blueiceicle|Topside Stainless|Can 304 2b stainless be used for mooring bits? I would love to use some nice shiny stainless, however the price is right.( Offcuts from work) Thanks for the input Jesse| 6542|6542|2005-01-10 00:09:39|blueiceicle|26ft Interior|Hi there me again.. Just wondering if anyone has got so far as to sketch out a interior for the 26ft. Id love to see some info posted on the these little swains. Thanks Jesse| 6543|938|2005-01-10 01:26:16|blueiceicle|Welding Rods|Jeezz.. i should have asked this with my posting on grinding disks.. but what can i say..im slow. How many boxes of rods on average are needed to weld a 36ft swain. Thanks again all Jesse| 6544|6507|2005-01-10 06:23:28|sae140|Re: Twin Keel Tankage 26ft|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Gary H. Lucas" wrote: > Bullet shaped ends aren't that tough at all. Nice one. > If you stick weld, try using two rods at once. Even nicer one, Gary ! Keep 'em coming .... Colin| 6545|6507|2005-01-10 06:39:57|sae140|Re: Twin Keel Tankage 26ft|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "blueiceicle" wrote: > > Im curious to know whether torpedo style keels would be much of a > advantage? If you were to put them on say a swain model twin keeler.. > > Would you shorten the length of the keels to accomodate the height > of the torpedos? If in fact you did shorten them, would this not > affect the way the keel performs? I also wonder if having that much > more material attatched to the hull would create more drag and > ultimatly compromise hull speed? > > Sorry thats alot of questions there, but i just cant help but wonder. > > regards Jesse Well I'm no yacht designer, but the advantages I can see are: a) ease of fitting ballast. b) it gets the ballast down as low as is physically possible - useful if the boat is tender. c) gives a larger footprint - useful when drying-out on mud/ soft sand. d) torpedoes act as "end-stoppers" - sort of like a scheel-keel. The disadvantages I can see are: e) slight increase in wetted-area f) slight increase in fabrication time and effort One consideration I can see is to ensure that the torpedoes don't project forward of the keel, thus becoming weed catchers. There may be other factors I haven't spotted. Re: hull speed - I guess it's one of those 'trade-off' situations - where increased drag would be offset by a more upright sailing attitude. It's fairly common around the UK coast-line to see early twin-keelers (those with flat-plate keels, not NACA section) fitted with tip- weights on either side of each keel plate - more-or-less the same as torpedoes. I know of at least one builder who is incorporating keel weight tips into his Swain build - but I won't steal his thunder ... Colin| 6546|22|2005-01-10 10:28:38|origamiboats@yahoogroups.com|New file uploaded to origamiboats |Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the origamiboats group. File : /JPBart22.jpg Uploaded by : ben_azo Description : twinkeeler info,drawings & pic You can access this file at the URL: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/files/JPBart22.jpg To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit: http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files Regards, ben_azo | 6547|6507|2005-01-10 10:32:44|Puck III|Re: Twin Keel Tankage 26ft|I hope the latest uploaded file JPBart info helps. Old Ben --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "sae140" wrote: > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "blueiceicle" > wrote: > > > > Im curious to know whether torpedo style keels would be much of a > > advantage? If you were to put them on say a swain model twin > keeler.. > > > > Would you shorten the length of the keels to accomodate the height > > of the torpedos? If in fact you did shorten them, would this not > > affect the way the keel performs? I also wonder if having that much > > more material attatched to the hull would create more drag and > > ultimatly compromise hull speed? > > > > Sorry thats alot of questions there, but i just cant help but > wonder. > > > > regards Jesse > > > Well I'm no yacht designer, but the advantages I can see are: > a) ease of fitting ballast. > b) it gets the ballast down as low as is physically possible - useful > if the boat is tender. > c) gives a larger footprint - useful when drying-out on mud/ soft > sand. > d) torpedoes act as "end-stoppers" - sort of like a scheel-keel. > > The disadvantages I can see are: > e) slight increase in wetted-area > f) slight increase in fabrication time and effort > > One consideration I can see is to ensure that the torpedoes don't > project forward of the keel, thus becoming weed catchers. > > There may be other factors I haven't spotted. > > Re: hull speed - I guess it's one of those 'trade-off' situations - > where increased drag would be offset by a more upright sailing > attitude. > > It's fairly common around the UK coast-line to see early twin-keelers > (those with flat-plate keels, not NACA section) fitted with tip- > weights on either side of each keel plate - more-or-less the same as > torpedoes. > > I know of at least one builder who is incorporating keel weight tips > into his Swain build - but I won't steal his thunder ... > > Colin | 6548|6539|2005-01-10 13:16:51|gschnell|Re: Built in Tankage|When I constructed my "built-in" tanks, I installed the tank walls, baffles, valves and drains. I also built the tank tops and installed large access holes but did not install the tops. I then sandblasted all interior surfaces and painted them with Hempel closed-pore epoxy (food grade coatings), then welded the tops onto the tanks, cleaned the interior areas where welding had affected, and painted those areas. There must be an easier way, I just haven't found it. Gord blueiceicle wrote: > > Just curious how to go about coating the inside of a built in tank... > Im just cant see how to protect a built in tank on a sailboat..when > the space that would be ideal to use may prove hard to access once > sealed. > > What method is used to construct build in tankage? > I hope this post isnt to vague... > Thanks for the help > > Jesse > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > --------------------------------------------------------------- > Yahoo! Groups Links > > * To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/ > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > Service. > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]| 6549|6541|2005-01-10 13:23:06|gschnell|Re: Topside Stainless|304SS will often rust. I doesn't actually rust away, it just gets a rust stain where ever it has been welded or ground (mill scale removed). Gord blueiceicle wrote: > > Can 304 2b stainless be used for mooring bits? I would love to use > some nice shiny stainless, however the price is right.( Offcuts from > work) > > Thanks for the input > > Jesse > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > --------------------------------------------------------------- > Yahoo! Groups Links > > * To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/ > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > Service. > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]| 6550|6539|2005-01-10 15:14:22|brentswain38|Re: Built in Tankage|Kurt used stainless angles around the edges , drilled for a bolt on top making the entire top removeable. The inspection plate should ,if possible , be large enough to enable you to put your entire head in on either side of the baffle ,and see or reach every sq inch of the tank within arms length. With twin keel tanks , fitting your head in is impossible, but making the inside entirely reachable withing arms length is easy. A mirror on a stick should make every inch of the inside visible. With the single keeler , a kid can climb right inside the fuel tank behind the ballast. Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, gschnell wrote: > When I constructed my "built-in" tanks, I installed the tank walls, > baffles, valves and drains. I also built the tank tops and installed > large access holes but did not install the tops. I then sandblasted all > interior surfaces and painted them with Hempel closed-pore epoxy (food > grade coatings), then welded the tops onto the tanks, cleaned the > interior areas where welding had affected, and painted those areas. > There must be an easier way, I just haven't found it. > Gord > > > blueiceicle wrote: > > > > > Just curious how to go about coating the inside of a built in tank... > > Im just cant see how to protect a built in tank on a sailboat..when > > the space that would be ideal to use may prove hard to access once > > sealed. > > > > What method is used to construct build in tankage? > > I hope this post isnt to vague... > > Thanks for the help > > > > Jesse > > > > > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------- - > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > * To visit your group on the web, go to: > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/ > > > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > > Service. > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 6551|6507|2005-01-10 15:18:43|brentswain38|Re: Twin Keel Tankage 26ft|I would shorten them to keep the draft the same.Another thing you would have to do is make a model to make sure that they don't foul your anchor rode , and make sure that the rode slides off from as many angles as possible. The centre if gravity would be so marginally lowered that I don't belive you would ever notice the difference, and I don't think it would come even close to being worth the effort.It may even reduce performance. Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "sae140" wrote: > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "blueiceicle" > wrote: > > > > Im curious to know whether torpedo style keels would be much of a > > advantage? If you were to put them on say a swain model twin > keeler.. > > > > Would you shorten the length of the keels to accomodate the height > > of the torpedos? If in fact you did shorten them, would this not > > affect the way the keel performs? I also wonder if having that much > > more material attatched to the hull would create more drag and > > ultimatly compromise hull speed? > > > > Sorry thats alot of questions there, but i just cant help but > wonder. > > > > regards Jesse > > > Well I'm no yacht designer, but the advantages I can see are: > a) ease of fitting ballast. > b) it gets the ballast down as low as is physically possible - useful > if the boat is tender. > c) gives a larger footprint - useful when drying-out on mud/ soft > sand. > d) torpedoes act as "end-stoppers" - sort of like a scheel-keel. > > The disadvantages I can see are: > e) slight increase in wetted-area > f) slight increase in fabrication time and effort > > One consideration I can see is to ensure that the torpedoes don't > project forward of the keel, thus becoming weed catchers. > > There may be other factors I haven't spotted. > > Re: hull speed - I guess it's one of those 'trade-off' situations - > where increased drag would be offset by a more upright sailing > attitude. > > It's fairly common around the UK coast-line to see early twin- keelers > (those with flat-plate keels, not NACA section) fitted with tip- > weights on either side of each keel plate - more-or-less the same as > torpedoes. > > I know of at least one builder who is incorporating keel weight tips > into his Swain build - but I won't steal his thunder ... > > Colin | 6552|6542|2005-01-10 15:20:11|brentswain38|Re: 26ft Interior|Sorry Jesse I haven't yet, but thanks for the reminder. It's high time I did. Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "blueiceicle" wrote: > > Hi there me again.. > > Just wondering if anyone has got so far as to sketch out a interior > for the 26ft. Id love to see some info posted on the these little > swains. > > Thanks Jesse | 6553|6541|2005-01-10 15:20:50|brentswain38|Re: Topside Stainless|304 seems to work oK above the waterline. Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "blueiceicle" wrote: > > Can 304 2b stainless be used for mooring bits? I would love to use > some nice shiny stainless, however the price is right.( Offcuts from > work) > > Thanks for the input > > Jesse | 6554|6539|2005-01-10 15:28:41|brentswain38|Re: Built in Tankage|Make sure that any epoxy you use is food grade for potable water. Make sure you see this in writing as many salesmen were hired off the street and know little about what they are selling. If you do have problems later, you should know that all the big ships use a cement wash for tanks( 1 to 1 cement and sand) It sticks like shit to a goose ( have you ever tried to get cement off a rusty shovel after it has hardened) and being alkali , preserves steel.They re-do it regularly on big ships.On small tanks the water may taste a bit alkali for a while, but lots of flushing with a hose cleans it out.Cement imbeded steel used in construction is left to rust slightly as this makes the cement stick beter. A friend with a resort asked me how to deal with a huge, rusty water tank that he was given. I told him to cement wash it. Years later he told me that it worked like a charm and he had no problem with it. Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "blueiceicle" wrote: > > Just curious how to go about coating the inside of a built in tank... > Im just cant see how to protect a built in tank on a sailboat..when > the space that would be ideal to use may prove hard to access once > sealed. > > What method is used to construct build in tankage? > I hope this post isnt to vague... > Thanks for the help > > Jesse | 6555|6539|2005-01-10 15:49:11|carlmbentley|Re: Built in Tankage|wouldn't that violate child labor laws ? ;) *ok kid paint the whole inside, and i'll give you the candy* -carl in florida also pondering tank coatings > With the single keeler , a kid can climb right inside the fuel tank > behind the ballast. > > Brent | 6556|6556|2005-01-10 18:12:24|Grey|Computer Cut Kit?|Has anyone had any of the Brent Swain designs computer plasma cut? Are CAD files available for the Brent Swain Designs? Byron| 6557|6557|2005-01-11 04:40:02|Selwyn|Background info|Can anyone give me any background on this design or the particular vessel? Looks intereating but it is a long trip from here (like 2500km) to have a look for myself. http://boatsatwhitsunday.com.au/ed.php?de=6183&range=mono_under50 Thanks, Selwyn| 6558|22|2005-01-11 05:59:11|origamiboats@yahoogroups.com|New file uploaded to origamiboats |Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the origamiboats group. File : /Contradiction1.jpg Uploaded by : ben_azo Description : You can access this file at the URL: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/files/Contradiction1.jpg To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit: http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files Regards, ben_azo | 6559|6557|2005-01-11 06:38:19|Puck III|Re: Background info|Hi Selwyn , at first sight I see a pretty Brent Swain designed boat with an open interior but what do I see in that sales-ad I posted in Files : Gal.Steel sloop ( how was that hull galvanised ??? :-) & "Frameless strongall origami construction with welded longitudal stringers " Strongall stands for Strong Aluminium and is a Registered Trademark from META , see their production at : http://tinyurl.com/69o5t and see the latest pic : framelessint.jpg I just posted in Photos in here to see there are no welded longitudal stringers in that hull :-) I realy think she could be a well designed and well build boat , but I have the strongest reservations about those FALLS claims in that sales-ad so I would recommend the toughest survey by a real pro before even considering such a long trip to see her ( at the publisher of that ad cost by a certified surveyer of your choise would be a good proposal, cause your trip that could be useless will cost a lot more than the survey I sure recommend ) I hope this helps. Old Ben --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Selwyn" wrote: > > Can anyone give me any background on this design or the particular > vessel? Looks intereating but it is a long trip from here (like > 2500km) to have a look for myself. > http://boatsatwhitsunday.com.au/ed.php?de=6183&range=mono _under50 > > Thanks, > Selwyn | 6560|6560|2005-01-11 18:38:12|senorian|plexiglass drill bit|Hi Gary "Hold a stone parallel to the axis of the drill bit and stroke it in the same direction a couple of times on each cutting edge. The edge will still be sharp but will ..." I can't seem to get my head around this...holding a stone *parallel* to the axis of the drill bit seems to make it impossible for the stone to contact the cutting edge. Can you refer me to a site that gives very simple instructions? Thanks| 6561|6557|2005-01-11 18:58:43|brentswain38|Re: Background info|This was Evan's old boat. It has 10 ft beam and the galvanizing is hot galvanized decks and cabin and carbo zinc cold galvanize primer on the hull. Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III" wrote: > > Hi Selwyn , at first sight I see a pretty Brent Swain designed > boat with an open interior but what do I see in that sales-ad > I posted in Files : > Gal.Steel sloop ( how was that hull galvanised ??? :-) & > "Frameless strongall origami construction with > welded longitudal stringers " > Strongall stands for Strong Aluminium and is a Registered > Trademark from META , see their production at : > http://tinyurl.com/69o5t and see the latest pic : > framelessint.jpg I just posted in Photos in here to see > there are no welded longitudal stringers in that hull :-) > I realy think she could be a well designed and well build > boat , but I have the strongest reservations about those > FALLS claims in that sales-ad so I would recommend the > toughest survey by a real pro before even considering > such a long trip to see her ( at the publisher of that ad cost > by a certified surveyer of your choise would be a good proposal, > cause your trip that could be useless will cost a lot more > than the survey I sure recommend ) > I hope this helps. > Old Ben > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Selwyn" > wrote: > > > > Can anyone give me any background on this design or the > particular > > vessel? Looks intereating but it is a long trip from here (like > > 2500km) to have a look for myself. > > > http://boatsatwhitsunday.com.au/ed.php?de=6183&range=mono > _under50 > > > > Thanks, > > Selwyn | 6562|6560|2005-01-11 20:33:40|Gary H. Lucas|Re: plexiglass drill bit|I'll shoot a picture of it and send it to you. Gary H. Lucas ----- Original Message ----- From: "senorian" To: Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2005 6:38 PM Subject: [origamiboats] plexiglass drill bit > > > Hi Gary > "Hold a stone > parallel to the axis of the drill bit and stroke it in the same > direction a > couple of times on each cutting edge. The edge will still be sharp > but will ..." > I can't seem to get my head around this...holding a stone *parallel* > to the axis of the drill bit seems to make it impossible for the > stone to contact the cutting edge. > Can you refer me to a site that gives very simple instructions? > Thanks > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > | 6563|6560|2005-01-11 20:58:48|Bill Jaine|Re: plexiglass drill bit|Hi Gary, Will you copy me on the picture, TIA Bill Bill Port Hope. Canada -----Original Message----- From: Gary H. Lucas [mailto:gary.lucas@...] Sent: 11-Jan-05 8:33 PM To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [origamiboats] plexiglass drill bit I'll shoot a picture of it and send it to you. Gary H. Lucas ----- Original Message ----- From: "senorian" To: Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2005 6:38 PM Subject: [origamiboats] plexiglass drill bit > > > Hi Gary > "Hold a stone > parallel to the axis of the drill bit and stroke it in the same > direction a > couple of times on each cutting edge. The edge will still be sharp > but will ..." > I can't seem to get my head around this...holding a stone *parallel* > to the axis of the drill bit seems to make it impossible for the > stone to contact the cutting edge. > Can you refer me to a site that gives very simple instructions? > Thanks > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com _____ Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: HYPERLINK "http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/"http://groups.yahoo.com/group/o rigamiboats/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HYPERLINK "mailto:origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe"origami boats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the HYPERLINK "http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/"Yahoo! Terms of Service. --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.830 / Virus Database: 565 - Release Date: 06/01/2005 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.830 / Virus Database: 565 - Release Date: 06/01/2005 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 6564|6560|2005-01-11 21:19:39|Gary H. Lucas|Re: plexiglass drill bit|Sure Bill Gary H. Lucas ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Jaine" To: Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2005 8:57 PM Subject: RE: [origamiboats] plexiglass drill bit > > Hi Gary, > > Will you copy me on the picture, > > TIA > > Bill > > > > Bill > > Port Hope. Canada > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Gary H. Lucas [mailto:gary.lucas@...] > Sent: 11-Jan-05 8:33 PM > To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [origamiboats] plexiglass drill bit > > > > I'll shoot a picture of it and send it to you. > > Gary H. Lucas > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "senorian" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2005 6:38 PM > Subject: [origamiboats] plexiglass drill bit > > >> >> >> Hi Gary >> "Hold a stone >> parallel to the axis of the drill bit and stroke it in the same >> direction a >> couple of times on each cutting edge. The edge will still be sharp >> but will ..." >> I can't seem to get my head around this...holding a stone *parallel* >> to the axis of the drill bit seems to make it impossible for the >> stone to contact the cutting edge. >> Can you refer me to a site that gives very simple instructions? >> Thanks >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com >> To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: >> origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com >> Yahoo! Groups Links >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > > _____ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > * To visit your group on the web, go to: > HYPERLINK > "http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/"http://groups.yahoo.com/group/o > rigamiboats/ > > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > HYPERLINK > "mailto:origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe"origami > boats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the HYPERLINK > "http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/"Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > > --- > Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.830 / Virus Database: 565 - Release Date: 06/01/2005 > > > > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.830 / Virus Database: 565 - Release Date: 06/01/2005 > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > | 6565|6556|2005-01-11 22:48:40|blueiceicle|Re: Computer Cut Kit?|Hi Byron.. Im currently working on putting the specs for the 26ft in CAD. however.. To my knowlege CAD doesnt do 3d rendering of sorts to say pull the hull together with CAD.. which would be nice so i can burn the topside of my boat on the plasma table at work. The table i work with is only good for 5ft by 22ft. But to answer your question.. i think many have thougth about it and maybe tried..however nothing has been mentioned on it being done in this forum to my knowlege. Forgive my spelling.. Regards Jesse --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Grey" wrote: > > Has anyone had any of the Brent Swain designs computer plasma cut? > Are CAD files available for the Brent Swain Designs? > > Byron | 6566|6507|2005-01-12 05:23:55|edward_stoneuk|Twin Keel wing and bulb ends|I have put a picture (Keels3Views.jpg ) in the files section of one of a pair of bilge keels with end wings that I made for my BS36. The base is 12 mm (1/2") plate and the round edge 30 mm (1 3/16"). As Brent says they are a lot of work. I will probably never know what difference they make as I don't have another BS bilge keeler to compare them with. Several French manufacturers rate keel wings and bulbs highly and I think I've seen them on Legend yachts made in the US. The main downside is cleaning and painting them underneath as it will sit on the ground like a duck. Does anybody know what antifouling ducks use on their feet? Regards, Ted| 6567|6556|2005-01-12 05:48:18|Puck III|Re: Computer Cut Kit? - 26ft Boats|Hi Jesse , Byron , Charles & Alfredo . Tunagouda ? A lead to Gouda ? I had an interested party from Belgium ( now she ,yes its a she , wants a boat with minimum draft ) to have a 26' Brent Swain to be build in frameless thick aluminium , that's why I proposed to Alfredo ( who probably is still thinking about a new design ) to computerise the 26' . I can have it cut on a 12mx3m ( 39' x 9'8" ? ) table ( with the angle for welding cutt of at the same time ) and with some tooling see latest pics " centraalstaal " an assembly would rather take hours than days ( hull , deck & superstructures ) Building the interior outside the boat to accurate measurements and installing it inside the hull later savas labor with the added advantage you can remove it with ease for eventual maintenance or repairs later . Feel free to ask or sugest anything to an old retiree hobbyist:-) Their realy seems to be a revival in the interst for small boats. See next month ( yeah February 2005 ) UK PBO cover & article extract , we are fast in this Group :-) Gerd in http://www.justmueller.com/boats writes he is working on a new 26' too ( I wanne see that design) You can delete all what follows , on the other hand a female vieuw on the 26' subject is always interesting , especialy sinds this was posted in other Groups . Ofthen woman are good planers & thinkers & budgeters ( less ego maybe ) I wonder what you all think. Old Ben > Subject:  Computer Cut Kit? > > Has anyone had any of the Brent Swain designs computer > plasma cut? > Are CAD files available for the Brent Swain Designs? > > Byron > > > Jesse's Post > > Hi there me again.. > > Just wondering if anyone has got so far as to sketch out a > interior > for the 26ft. Id love to see some info posted on the these little > swains. > > Thanks Jesse > > "Puck III" wrote: > > Hi Janice , here comes part II of my European perspective . > I posted the Colvic 26 info I had , she falls in the same category > as the Fisher 25 see : http://tinyurl.com/4uppl > just to see a cheap 23' motorcruiser see : > http://tinyurl.com/6scz9 > I bought the PBO this month and found an interesting test > see Files : PBO-Midgettest ( Colvic 26' mentioned ) > > the UK,French Brittany , the canals , the Med and back to Florida > > personaly I would go for : > minimum draft ( 0,5m max ) > > steel or thick aluminum to withstand point pressures > > I would look for a secondhand boat or even consider to have > a new one build , real cheap today > > small is more determined by displacement than by lenght , > > a trailerable boat is cheaper to transport and to maintain > (see cantelsystem to bring 3,2m to 2,5m roadwith) > > I hope you mean widebody when you talk about the hullform > you like , as opposed to narrow in the water old fashion hulls > > widebodies evolved from racers are the latest thinking in > the new motorsailors that are fast under sail & engine > > I will post some pics & plans in here but as usual you will > find much more of them in the repository Files & Photos of : > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Seabull2/ (almost full so Seabull3 has been created:-) > > I love the Rando-ORCA pics I posted , cause that around the > world trip was realy done on a budget , as is the Topic in > this Group. > > Developing such a boat as a small Wylo II with a deckhouse, > or a thick aluminum frameless Brent Swain type 26' > see " Dove III " or Black hull pics > with more modern apendixes ,and to be build in Origami > for a quick cheap build, could be realy interesting > but who the hell except you could have an interest ? > > Give me some feedback and input please > Old Ben > > ben_azo@h...> wrote: > > Hi Janice , fine post you made for a great project , here comes > part 1 of my European perspective. > I loved Butch's pics , a beautifull part of your life. > I dont like long oceanpassages no more to, I'd rather do the > same milage but stop in every port & restaurant & spend > more time to enjoy the nice things in life :-) > I am the interior steering fanatic , cause I always wanne see > what's coming & sitting down of course , cause when the > autopilot does the work I love to read or write or even just > enjoy the scenery . Same goes on anchor or in the marina ; but > sinds I dont like to be seen , I installed 3M safety film , it reduced > heat gain and loss and I can recommend it . > Not all boats steer well in reverse so I installed an electric > bowthruster and with my special hook ( 100$) that brings the > lines back to me , I can dock and do the locks alone with ease. > > As an American you are exempt of paying any VAT on anything > for the boat and equipment , all you need is a registration and > in most countries a liability insurance ( realy cheap in Europe) > will do . > You sure are worth the watermaker , especialy if you want to do > the Med where water can be difficult to find in tourist season. > Depending on the displacement of the boat you will choose , > I would recommend an electric anchorwinch , I easely change > anchorplace 3 times a day if I want to without the fair of backpain. > > Bring a Panasonic Toughbook with easy-net-acces with you, > so we can continue to communicate on the net , the fine thing > takes care of my navigation, the autohelm , pics and surfing > in the harbors & marinas ( I invested less than 1000$ ) > > Please direct me to your MotorSail page , I will give comments > on boats in a later post , cause I am still trying to find the correct > translation for " a piece-of-fluff at 4k or so " :-) > Awaiting more of your pics. > Old Ben > > > janice@j...> wrote: > Long Message Alert: > (either pour a cup of coffee/tea and get comfy or delete now) > > Nah, I'm not Canadian. I'm an American and have several > friends who live north of the border in Canada. One of my > website buyers (nice gal who lives in Nova Scotia) has turned > me into her US address. > It's cheaper for her to have things shipped to me here in Florida > then every couple/three months I do an M-bag via surface to > her.... And hey, and ifit's a decent book I get to read 'em too -- > benefits us both. (grin) > > You see, I grew up aboard a m/v (in this directory, she's 48 or > 49 years old -- father built her of Steel shortly after WWII) > http://www.janice142.com/Butch/ > > I spent 15,000 miles aboard our boat and nearly 20 years > cruising the east coast and islands -- nothing fancy -- just your > basic coastal cruiser, puttering along and > exploring/diving/swimming/fishing/ along with fixing stuff that > broke/fiberglassing/sanding/varnishing/ et al -- > you get the picture. > > In a perverse way, I'm glad I've had these past five years > taking care of Mother as she sinks into Alzheimer's induced > dementia. > I've come to realize that though the dream of sailing off is > enchanting, the reality is that I'm not interested in long ocean > passages. Most of my boating will be done in short hops and at > anchor, and while anchored I WANT TO SEE OUT. > Thus I'm leaning toward a pilothouse of some sort. > When it rains like heck for a week straight, I'd prefer to see > what's going on while SITTING DOWN. > > Anyway, "small" is the key. Ours, at 40' was easy to maneuver > and handle, BUT docking required two people (one on the > spring line and one at the controls) -- thus, though I loved the > many features/improvements aboard her, realistically speaking, > she wasn't the boat for me. I believe I can safely > dock/anchor/maintain a boat of less than 30 feet overall. > Plus, costs are far cheaper; think "one gallon of bottompaint per > coat", far cheaper hauling fees, less fuel required, et al. > > I like tubby vessels with lots of liveaboard space even knowing > that by having such I'm giving up sailing performance. [If I > wanted to get someplace fast, I'd take an airplane.] > The more I looked around and at accommodations aboard (I > want an enclosed shower/ comfy head/ permanent bunk/ > chart-working-eating table) plus my "stuff" weighs a bit too. > Therefore, she should not be a piece-of-fluff at 4k or so. > I'm thinking closer to the weight of the NorSea27 (8k) rather than > a Contessa (too low freeboard/too light/lacking headroom) .... > > Oh, and my "dream-boat" is the Colvic Watson 26 -- bilge keel > which is new for me but from my reading (and another gent > here) not to be automatically dismissed. The CW's I've seen > online have been in Scotland and the UK. And Puck... anything > similar you could recommend from a Eurostandpoint? > For instance, here the old Bristol 27's (not the 27.7) are > very similar to the NorSea27 -- a "poor-man's NorSea" so > tospeak. Of course I found a boat still in production (read "it's > going to cost more") so if there is anything similar you'd > recommend I'd definitely be interested. > > Place of purchase means little. My "intended range" is coastal > and I've been made aware of shipping companies that will move > a boat anyplace. > Thus, if I buy there (Common Market) with VAT paid, I'd be > tempted to "do the Mediterranean" and explore the canals a bit > over there before coming back to America. > One thing I confess to though is an apprehension > about being so far from home on a shakedown cruise. > For my "comfort level" I'd prefer to buy here where I have easy > access to parts/supplies. > > I do not have all the answers. Yet. > > Still working at paying off the credit card bills and then the final > push to perfect the spare house ("waterfront estate in south > Florida on lovely canal near Atlantic Ocean"); once I have cash in > hand (this fall) > I'll be able to shop seriously. For now, I'm a looker, deciding > on features I can live without and things I absolutely will have. > > Like: > #1) Watermaker (I know it's expensive, but I'm worth it!) > #2) Refrigeration that runs from batteries (not engine driven) > #3) Wind generators to power it all along with solar panels and > battery bank > > It goes without saying Chartbooks, VHF radio and GPS. > One thing (there's more than one) I don't know about for certain > is the importance of guidebooks. We didn't use them (reading a > chart provides a lot of usefulinformation) and I'm frankly not sure > if they are of importance in the USA. > Down island where charts aren't as good/accurate is > another matter entirely. > > J, taking a deep breath and getting back to work. > I'll upload some more pictures to my MotorSail page later > tonight if possible. --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "blueiceicle" wrote: > > Hi Byron.. > > > Im currently working on putting the specs for the 26ft in CAD. > however.. To my knowlege CAD doesnt do 3d rendering of sorts to say > pull the hull together with CAD.. which would be nice so i can burn > the topside of my boat on the plasma table at work. The table i work > with is only good for 5ft by 22ft. > > But to answer your question.. i think many have thougth about it and > maybe tried..however nothing has been mentioned on it being done in > this forum to my knowlege. > > Forgive my spelling.. > > Regards Jesse > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Grey" > wrote: > > > > Has anyone had any of the Brent Swain designs computer plasma > cut? > > Are CAD files available for the Brent Swain Designs? > > > > Byron | 6568|6507|2005-01-12 12:30:53|Paul J. Thompson|Re: Twin Keel wing and bulb ends|Regular use I believe :-) . edward_stoneuk wrote: > The main downside is cleaning and painting them underneath as >it will sit on the ground like a duck. Does anybody know what >antifouling ducks use on their feet? >Regards, >Ted > > > > -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.6.10 - Release Date: 10/01/2005| 6569|6507|2005-01-12 14:34:12|put_to_sea|Re: Twin Keel wing and bulb ends|Ted, Those keels look nicely done but I am having a hard time seeing the exact shape in the pictures because the nice grey paint visually smoothes out the curves. Would you be able to make a sketch of the shape you used? Best regards, Amos --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "edward_stoneuk" wrote: > > I have put a picture (Keels3Views.jpg ) in the files section of one > of a pair of bilge keels with end wings that I made for my BS36. | 6570|6507|2005-01-12 16:34:57|edward_stoneuk|Re: Twin Keel wing and bulb ends|Amos, I will get a picture of the other side, which should make it clearer as that is the side with the bulb on it. That may take some time as I need a machine to lift them over. I was going to wait until I had them in the boat before I took a picture, but due to recent interest I thought I would submit a picture now. I am some weeks off fitting them. I will post better pictures as soon as I can. Regards, Ted| 6571|6560|2005-01-12 19:06:00|brentswain38|Re: plexiglass drill bit|My book has a drawing of a plexi drill bit. Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Gary H. Lucas" wrote: > Sure Bill > > Gary H. Lucas > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Bill Jaine" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2005 8:57 PM > Subject: RE: [origamiboats] plexiglass drill bit > > > > > > Hi Gary, > > > > Will you copy me on the picture, > > > > TIA > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > Port Hope. Canada > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Gary H. Lucas [mailto:gary.lucas@v...] > > Sent: 11-Jan-05 8:33 PM > > To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [origamiboats] plexiglass drill bit > > > > > > > > I'll shoot a picture of it and send it to you. > > > > Gary H. Lucas > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "senorian" > > To: > > Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2005 6:38 PM > > Subject: [origamiboats] plexiglass drill bit > > > > > >> > >> > >> Hi Gary > >> "Hold a stone > >> parallel to the axis of the drill bit and stroke it in the same > >> direction a > >> couple of times on each cutting edge. The edge will still be sharp > >> but will ..." > >> I can't seem to get my head around this...holding a stone *parallel* > >> to the axis of the drill bit seems to make it impossible for the > >> stone to contact the cutting edge. > >> Can you refer me to a site that gives very simple instructions? > >> Thanks > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > >> To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > >> origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > >> Yahoo! Groups Links > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > * To visit your group on the web, go to: > > HYPERLINK > > "http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/"http://groups.yahoo.com /group/o > > rigamiboats/ > > > > > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > HYPERLINK > > "mailto:origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com? subject=Unsubscribe"origami > > boats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the HYPERLINK > > "http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/"Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > > > > > --- > > Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. > > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > > Version: 6.0.830 / Virus Database: 565 - Release Date: 06/01/2005 > > > > > > > > --- > > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > > Version: 6.0.830 / Virus Database: 565 - Release Date: 06/01/2005 > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > | 6572|22|2005-01-12 19:16:55|origamiboats@yahoogroups.com|New file uploaded to origamiboats |Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the origamiboats group. File : /Zero Angle Explanation.doc Uploaded by : glenncramond Description : Zero angle drill sharpening You can access this file at the URL: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/files/Zero%20Angle%20Explanation.doc To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit: http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files Regards, glenncramond | 6573|6573|2005-01-12 19:26:38|Glenn Cramond|Zero angle drill sharpening|Interesting reading on drilling pexiglass. I've uploaded a file to the group with a couple of rough sketches on how to sharpen standard twist drill to a zero angle. Takes a bit of practice, but when you get it right, you can drill a 1" hole in 26 gauge metal, or a 1/4" hole in glass. The secret is that a standard trist drill has a web that does not do any actual cutting. The point on the zero angle drill actually cuts. DO NOT PILOT DRILL. Centre punching is also not necessary, as you can locate the drill on a couple of scribed lines. I find the best starting point is to have a play with a 3/8" drill and do some holes with it in some light gauge gal first. Regards. Glenn| 6574|6574|2005-01-12 19:34:14|A & K Christie|twin keel primer|Ted, What have you used to prime those twin keels so nicely? Looks very uniform and good high-build. I am shortly about to grind and prime my keels, then install as soon as the snow goes (...next week, I hope). Alex ----- Original Message ----- From: edward_stoneuk | 6575|6539|2005-01-12 20:15:19|jim dorey|Re: Built in Tankage|On Mon, 10 Jan 2005 20:14:14 -0000, brentswain38 wrote: rent something like this? http://www.globalspec.com/FeaturedProducts/Detail?ExhibitID=10391 -- Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/| 6576|6574|2005-01-13 08:15:34|edward_stoneuk|Re: twin keel primer|Alex, I used Zinga (www.zinga.be). It is brushed on. It looks better in the photos, which were taken in the rain than it does in reality. From experience it is a very good, if expensive product and very easy to use and maintain. I think it is available in North America. Some regard the use of zinc underwater as unecessary. I understand Moitessier used a similar product on one of his steel boats underwater without a topcoat as it has some antfouling properties though he subsequently painted over it. There are pictures of navigation buoys painted with it on their web page. I am undecided about painting over it. I may try leaving it to see what happens. I liked you pictures of your build. Are there any more? Do you now the paint regime of the boat on the cover picture? It looks very neat. Regards, Ted| 6577|6560|2005-01-14 16:40:34|senorian|Re: plexiglass drill bit|thanks Gary account is hotmail.com --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Gary H. Lucas" wrote: > I'll shoot a picture of it and send it to you. > > Gary H. Lucas > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "senorian" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2005 6:38 PM > Subject: [origamiboats] plexiglass drill bit > > > > > > > > Hi Gary > > "Hold a stone > > parallel to the axis of the drill bit and stroke it in the same > > direction a > > couple of times on each cutting edge. The edge will still be sharp > > but will ..." > > I can't seem to get my head around this...holding a stone *parallel* > > to the axis of the drill bit seems to make it impossible for the > > stone to contact the cutting edge. > > Can you refer me to a site that gives very simple instructions? > > Thanks > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > | 6578|6578|2005-01-15 10:44:46|jim dorey|maybe a better packing seal?|http://www.engineeringtalk.com/news/jam/jam114.html might not work on heavy grease or salt water, but, you're all stinkin rich, you try it. -- Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/| 6579|6579|2005-01-15 17:38:57|Puck III|long term antifouling|http://www.coppercoat.com/ a longterm antifouling Old Ben| 6580|6579|2005-01-16 19:55:05|audeojude|Re: long term antifouling|Save yourself some money :) this is an easy home project.. You just get a few pounds of copper powder and mix it into your pick of epoxy paint and apply to bottom of boat. :) scott carle links follow http://www.epoxyproducts.com/copper4u.html read this page :) s-- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III" wrote: > > http://www.coppercoat.com/ > a longterm antifouling > Old Ben | 6581|6581|2005-01-17 13:58:42|John Waalkes|Re: Digest Number 1060|I used the link below and contacted them. Very interesting product. Thought others would be interested. John ----- Original Message ----- From: Piet VAN RIET To: jhwaalkes@... Cc: R. Radhakrishnan Sent: Monday, January 17, 2005 5:47 AM Subject: FW: USA contact Dear John , Thanks for your interest in the unique ZINGA Products . You can find much information and the Exclusive Importer/Distributor for the U.S.A on : www.zingacoating.com , to whom I copy this message and on :www.zinga.be As you will see in both web-sites ZINGA has to be applied on a ROUGH and CLEAN bear-metal surface. Afterwards you can apply a "compatible " topcoat on the ZINGA Layer . On top of this topcoat you can apply the urethane foam . For the bottom paint , that I suppose is the exterior , I would like to advice you to apply a anti-fooling coating ; apply the primer of the antifouling coating directly on the ZINGA Layer and topcoat the primer with the anti-fooling topcoat. Feel free to come to me with more questions about the ZINGA Products by e-mail: piet.vanriet@... . I did present the ZINGA Products to a company in Anchorage some six years ago : POLAR SUPPLY CO, INC , Marty ANDERSON was Vice President, the ALASKA PIPELINE PEOPLE were interested in the product . Kind regards. Piet ----- Original Message ----- From: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2005 3:40 PM Subject: [origamiboats] Digest Number 1060 Message: 2 Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2005 13:14:16 -0000 From: "edward_stoneuk" > Subject: Re: twin keel primer Alex, I used Zinga (www.zinga.be). It is brushed on. It looks better in the photos, which were taken in the rain than it does in reality. From experience it is a very good, if expensive product and very easy to use and maintain. I think it is available in North America. Some regard the use of zinc underwater as unecessary. I understand Moitessier used a similar product on one of his steel boats underwater without a topcoat as it has some antfouling properties though he subsequently painted over it. There are pictures of navigation buoys painted with it on their web page. I am undecided about painting over it. I may try leaving it to see what happens. I liked you pictures of your build. Are there any more? Do you now the paint regime of the boat on the cover picture? It looks very neat. Regards, Ted [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 6582|6582|2005-01-17 15:14:56|Gary|Boat Launched|A week ago a BS 36' was launched at Nanaimo, British Columbia, Canada. The launch was in fact a conclusion (finally) to my 2nd attempt at a Swain steel boat. The first project was abandoned and the unfinished boat sold about 6 yrs ago when a financial set back sunk the project. I was living on Vancouver Island at the time of the first boat and was prepared to build it myself after local origami boat builder Evan Shaler pulled the hull together. For the 2nd go round I had returned to my home province of Ontario and my old job and started to rebuild financially. After 2 yrs the funds were in place for the steel order and a new start. A decision had to be made whether I would be an owner builder again or just work at what I do best and let others (boat builders) do what they do best. I chose the former and remained in Ontario 2000 miles away returning 2 summers to Nanaimo, Vancouver Island to help Evan out (as if he needed it). Prior to this decision I scoured boat yards from Ontario to Mexico and ports on the British Columbia coast looking at steel boats. I learned 2 things. No steel boats of quality were available at reasonable money and 2ndly having a professional boat yard build one was just completely ludicrous in terms of costs. There was no hesitation in calling on Evan Shaler again (see evanmoonjunk on this site). He is not only the finest craftsman of steel boat building you will find anywhere but Evan's working method (Evan will come to your chosen site) is very affordable. I am amazed that those with currency advantages vis a vis Canadian funds do not see this great bargain opportunity to have an origami steel boat built so beautifully, safe & right. Evan has 20 years experience behind him and about 34 origami craft worked on. And I did get hands on experience as well by returning to Vancouver Island the past 2 summers under the watchful eye of a steel boat builder at the peak of his trade. Vancouver Island was not a hardship either as this is a world tourist destination with unspoiled, wild coastal places to treat your senses. I found the Nanaimo area and points nearby to be the planetary hotbed of origami boat building. A wealth of experienced people to learn from plus all the steel boat building supplies, equipment, boat transport and completed boats and their obliging owners is available. Launch day last week, sporting a grateful smile, I watched as a massive travel lift slackened off its thick strap lines releasing a very fine sailboat to the great Pacific Ocean. Brent Swain is to be complimented for his advancement of origami boat building. Brent has designed a tough craft with sleek lines and proven blue water history which is within the achievable means of the "average" guy or gal. The boat was beautiful at launch, riding high on her lines slowly motoring off to her moorings in the receding sun of the winters day. A toddle of rum christened the send off. Just a closing note to say thanks to a few folks on Vancouver Island for their friendship and help so genuinely and generously offered.. Steve Rankin: Steel boat sailor and ranch owner in the Cumberland area where my first boat was started. Last time I heard Steve was sailing Mexico way. Winston, Carol & Kim Bushnell: Winston has built several steel origami boats and daughter Kim has a gorgeous "pocket" version. Kim, Winston & his wife Carol are all accomplished sailors. Winston has 1000's of miles of sailing under his belt including a trip to the arctic and back. On launch day, Winston was right there to help all the way from the building site to the marina. Brent Swain: Known very well by origami site members, Brent visited the building site from time to time and was generous in advice and encouragement. Thanks Brent. Evan Shaler: Evan pulled the first hull together and did all of the steel work on the boat just launched. Evan and I found lots to talk about from life to boats. He has become a friend. Thanks Evan. Alex Christie: Alex was there for the launch with camera and cam- corder in hand and has since sent me a sample of his handi-work. The DVD production came complete with stills and video enhanced with titles and well chosen musical clips of the launch. When Alex is finished with his "Origami Building Video" there is no question that origami members will find themselves both informed and entertained. Great work Alex! …and thanks to Origami members for a "rare" good user group. Good luck to all & best wishes. Gary| 6583|6583|2005-01-17 18:21:20|Courtney Thomas|how2 rig an alternator welder for a 335hp diesel engine ?|I would like to enable mobile welding by using my truck's engine. Assuming it's doable, how should all this be setup ? What caveats are to be observed ? What's the simplest way to rectify the alternator current to....DC weld.. properly and safely ? What cables, rod holder, etc. are recommended ? What else do I need ? What should all this cost and where can I get said parts and pieces ? Appreciatively, Courtney| 6584|6582|2005-01-17 22:45:24|silascrosby|Re: Boat Launched|Gary, Congratulations on your boat in the water. Steve 'Silas Crosby'| 6585|6585|2005-01-18 03:24:31|Puck III|Re : Boat Launched|Hi Gary , Good Luck and Best Wishes Congratulations . Old Ben| 6586|6582|2005-01-18 06:15:26|edward_stoneuk|Re: Boat Launched|Gary, Congratulations. Is it your boat in the cover page picture? It looks very neat. What paint have you used? Regards, Ted| 6587|6573|2005-01-18 08:12:19|..|Zero angle drill sharpening|Do not centre punch or scrub lines as this can start cracks. Apply masking tape where holes will be drilled and mark out with pencil or fine tip marker on the tape. Best wishes Geoff Glenn wrote Centre punching is also not necessary, as you can locate the drill on a couple of scribed lines. I find the best starting point is to have a play with a 3/8" drill and do some holes with it in some light gauge gal first. Regards. Glenn To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- Yahoo! Groups Links a.. To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/ b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.834 / Virus Database: 568 - Release Date: 14/01/2005 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]| 6588|6505|2005-01-18 11:49:21|seeratlas|Re: grinding /zip disks WATCH OUT!!!|WATCH OUT HEED COLIN'S WARNING!! Ok, moving these worn disks down to smaller equip can work but please be VERY careful and meticulous about inspecting these disks and ALWAYS let the disk do the work, don't 'lean one' heavily trying to muscle the grinder into going faster than its designed to do. These things can come apart guys, and when they do it is NOT a good thing. People have been killed, maimed, it just generally ruins your whole day. Get good quality disks and inspect them carefully for cracks, etc. and DO NOT LEAN ON EM when you're grinding. sorry for being a bit over the top on this subject but I have seen some really bad incidents. seer -- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "sae140" wrote: > > Cutting disks (a.k.a. zip disks) *are* very expensive retail, > especially in the big sheds ..... > > One trick is to buy an intermediate size angle grinder, say a 6 - 7", > then buy 9" disks from a trade outlet and after wearing 'em down, > transfer what's left to the 6/7", and then on to the 4.5". You can > save a heap of money this way. > > A lot cheaper if you buy disks at boot sales, where odd sizes can be > got cheap. I've bought 5" disks for next to nothing, 'cause they > won't fit standard grinders. The vendor still thought he was > screwin' me .... > > Buying a 6" grinder was the best investment I ever made - but you > won't find 'em for sale on the high street. > > Another tip - if you have a 4" grinder (which takes a smaller size > shank disk than the 4.5"), simply make up a washer to fit between the > shank of the 4" and the larger disk hole. Then you can buy 4.5" > disks which are more common, and thus cheaper. > > BTW - *never* use a cutting disk for grinding, as they don't have any > resistance to 'bending', and will shatter. > > Colin | 6589|6589|2005-01-18 15:35:40|Cyrus Safdari|Bilge keel vs. twin keels|Is there any particular benefit to having twin keels vs. bilge keels, other than being able to keep the boat upright on ground? How about directional stability? Impact resistance? Wetted surface area? rolling resistance? prop performance? angle of heel?| 6590|6583|2005-01-18 18:45:09|brentswain38|Re: how2 rig an alternator welder for a 335hp diesel engine ?|Start with a 9 inch pulley on your engine. I fed the field directly from the starting battery. As this provides too much power , I put a 65 watt car headlight bulb in the line . I also put a toggle switch in the line so I could turn the field of and let the diodes cool when I'm not welding. As the alternator is grounded thru the case, I hooked up the stinger cable directly to the positive post and started welding.I adjust the amperage by adjusting the RPM.I bought a 100 amp alternator from the auto wreckers for $35, the same price as a 35 amp alternator. I suspect a much larger one is the same standard price. I don't know how long the diodes will last, but I've been doing occasional welding since last summer and it's still going strong. So far it's cost me less than a days rental on a portable, so it's disposable. I have another one which was commercially built as a 100% duty cycle welder called a Scotty. It has six diodes in aluminium heat sinks. The diodes are mr5020 and mr5020 L.( right and left) Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Courtney Thomas wrote: > I would like to enable mobile welding by using my truck's engine. > > Assuming it's doable, how should all this be setup ? > > What caveats are to be observed ? > > What's the simplest way to rectify the alternator current to....DC weld.. > properly and safely ? > > > What cables, rod holder, etc. are recommended ? > > > What else do I need ? > > > What should all this cost and where can I get said parts and pieces ? > > Appreciatively, > > Courtney | 6591|6589|2005-01-18 18:49:00|brentswain38|Re: Bilge keel vs. twin keels|Two keels perform very well. Three keels perform abysmally as there is too much ineraction between them and too much wetted surface. Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Cyrus Safdari wrote: > Is there any particular benefit to having twin keels > vs. bilge keels, other than being able to keep the > boat upright on ground? How about directional > stability? Impact resistance? Wetted surface area? > rolling resistance? prop performance? angle of heel? | 6592|6592|2005-01-18 19:13:28|Courtney Thomas|To Brent -> how2 rig an alternator welder for a 335hp diesel engine|Thanks Brent. I assume the 9" pulley is to 'belt' the alternator. How'd you connect the weld cables to the battery terminals ? Was the duty cycle about 60% or what ? Since my truck is 24v [335hp], should I get 100 amp alt; hence, have a 2400W welder ? If no, what then ? What'd you use to control the engine RPM ? Would you now get a larger alternator ? Pardon my obtuseness, but... I don't know why you told me about the Scotty ? Appreciatively, Courtney brentswain38 wrote: > > Start with a 9 inch pulley on your engine. I fed the field directly > from the starting battery. As this provides too much power , I put a > 65 watt car headlight bulb in the line . I also put a toggle switch > in the line so I could turn the field of and let the diodes cool when > I'm not welding. As the alternator is grounded thru the case, I > hooked up the stinger cable directly to the positive post and started > welding.I adjust the amperage by adjusting the RPM.I bought a 100 amp > alternator from the auto wreckers for $35, the same price as a 35 amp > alternator. I suspect a much larger one is the same standard price. > I don't know how long the diodes will last, but I've been doing > occasional welding since last summer and it's still going strong. So > far it's cost me less than a days rental on a portable, so it's > disposable. > I have another one which was commercially built as a 100% duty cycle > welder called a Scotty. It has six diodes in aluminium heat sinks. > The diodes are mr5020 and mr5020 L.( right and left) > Brent > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Courtney Thomas > wrote: > >> I would like to enable mobile welding by using my truck's engine. >> >> Assuming it's doable, how should all this be setup ? >> >> What caveats are to be observed ? >> >> What's the simplest way to rectify the alternator current to....DC >> > weld.. > >> properly and safely ? >> >> >> What cables, rod holder, etc. are recommended ? >> >> >> What else do I need ? >> >> >> What should all this cost and where can I get said parts and >> > pieces ? > >> >> Appreciatively, >> >> Courtney >> > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > -- s/v Mutiny Rhodes Bounty II lying Oriental, NC WDB5619| 6593|6582|2005-01-19 10:09:32|Phil S.|Re: Boat Launched|Congratulations Gary, I visited you with Evan this summer, it is wonderful to see that you are living the dream. Fair Winds Phil| 6594|6592|2005-01-19 18:04:28|brentswain38|Re: To Brent -> how2 rig an alternator welder for a 335hp diesel en|Yes I used the 9 inch belt on the engine to drive the alternator, with a single A belt. I just used a common copper lug on the end of the cable with a wing nut to attach the stinger cable to the positive post of the alternator. The body is grounded on the boat, but you could rig another wing nut for the ground if you wanted to weld away from your truck. I have no idea what the duty cycle is, but the 100% for the scotty is probably true of all alternators.I mentioned the scotty in case you do burn out diodes and want to make a separate diode- heat sink arrangement.I find that my 100 amp welder is adequate for up to 1/8th inch rods( 6011 or stainless) but if it's the same price , I see no harm in going for a larger one. Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Courtney Thomas wrote: > Thanks Brent. > > I assume the 9" pulley is to 'belt' the alternator. > > How'd you connect the weld cables to the battery terminals ? > > Was the duty cycle about 60% or what ? > > Since my truck is 24v [335hp], should I get 100 amp alt; hence, have a > 2400W welder ? If no, what then ? > > What'd you use to control the engine RPM ? > > Would you now get a larger alternator ? > > Pardon my obtuseness, but... I don't know why you told me about the Scotty ? > > Appreciatively, > > Courtney > > > brentswain38 wrote: > > > > > Start with a 9 inch pulley on your engine. I fed the field directly > > from the starting battery. As this provides too much power , I put a > > 65 watt car headlight bulb in the line . I also put a toggle switch > > in the line so I could turn the field of and let the diodes cool when > > I'm not welding. As the alternator is grounded thru the case, I > > hooked up the stinger cable directly to the positive post and started > > welding.I adjust the amperage by adjusting the RPM.I bought a 100 amp > > alternator from the auto wreckers for $35, the same price as a 35 amp > > alternator. I suspect a much larger one is the same standard price. > > I don't know how long the diodes will last, but I've been doing > > occasional welding since last summer and it's still going strong. So > > far it's cost me less than a days rental on a portable, so it's > > disposable. > > I have another one which was commercially built as a 100% duty cycle > > welder called a Scotty. It has six diodes in aluminium heat sinks. > > The diodes are mr5020 and mr5020 L.( right and left) > > Brent > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Courtney Thomas > > wrote: > > > >> I would like to enable mobile welding by using my truck's engine. > >> > >> Assuming it's doable, how should all this be setup ? > >> > >> What caveats are to be observed ? > >> > >> What's the simplest way to rectify the alternator current to....DC > >> > > weld.. > > > >> properly and safely ? > >> > >> > >> What cables, rod holder, etc. are recommended ? > >> > >> > >> What else do I need ? > >> > >> > >> What should all this cost and where can I get said parts and > >> > > pieces ? > > > >> > >> Appreciatively, > >> > >> Courtney > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats- unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > s/v Mutiny > Rhodes Bounty II > lying Oriental, NC > WDB5619 | 6595|6592|2005-01-19 18:15:59|Courtney Thomas|Re: To Brent -> how2 rig an alternator welder for a 335hp diesel en|Thank you Brent. I'll try it :-) Courtney brentswain38 wrote: > > Yes I used the 9 inch belt on the engine to drive the alternator, > with a single A belt. I just used a common copper lug on the end of > the cable with a wing nut to attach the stinger cable to the positive > post of the alternator. The body is grounded on the boat, but you > could rig another wing nut for the ground if you wanted to weld away > from your truck. I have no idea what the duty cycle is, but the 100% > for the scotty is probably true of all alternators.I mentioned the > scotty in case you do burn out diodes and want to make a separate > diode- heat sink arrangement.I find that my 100 amp welder is > adequate for up to 1/8th inch rods( 6011 or stainless) but if it's > the same price , I see no harm in going for a larger one. > Brent > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Courtney Thomas > wrote: > >>Thanks Brent. >> >>I assume the 9" pulley is to 'belt' the alternator. >> >>How'd you connect the weld cables to the battery terminals ? >> >>Was the duty cycle about 60% or what ? >> >>Since my truck is 24v [335hp], should I get 100 amp alt; hence, >> > have a > >>2400W welder ? If no, what then ? >> >>What'd you use to control the engine RPM ? >> >>Would you now get a larger alternator ? >> >>Pardon my obtuseness, but... I don't know why you told me about the >> > Scotty ? > >>Appreciatively, >> >>Courtney >> >> >>brentswain38 wrote: >> >> >>>Start with a 9 inch pulley on your engine. I fed the field >>> > directly > >>>from the starting battery. As this provides too much power , I >>> > put a > >>>65 watt car headlight bulb in the line . I also put a toggle >>> > switch > >>>in the line so I could turn the field of and let the diodes cool >>> > when > >>>I'm not welding. As the alternator is grounded thru the case, I >>>hooked up the stinger cable directly to the positive post and >>> > started > >>>welding.I adjust the amperage by adjusting the RPM.I bought a 100 >>> > amp > >>>alternator from the auto wreckers for $35, the same price as a 35 >>> > amp > >>>alternator. I suspect a much larger one is the same standard >>> > price. > >>> I don't know how long the diodes will last, but I've been doing >>>occasional welding since last summer and it's still going strong. >>> > So > >>>far it's cost me less than a days rental on a portable, so it's >>>disposable. >>> I have another one which was commercially built as a 100% duty >>> > cycle > >>>welder called a Scotty. It has six diodes in aluminium heat >>> > sinks. > >>>The diodes are mr5020 and mr5020 L.( right and left) >>>Brent >>> >>>--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Courtney Thomas >>> > > >>>wrote: >>> >>> >>>>I would like to enable mobile welding by using my truck's engine. >>>> >>>>Assuming it's doable, how should all this be setup ? >>>> >>>>What caveats are to be observed ? >>>> >>>>What's the simplest way to rectify the alternator current >>>> > to....DC > >>>weld.. >>> >>> >>>>properly and safely ? >>>> >>>> >>>> What cables, rod holder, etc. are recommended ? >>>> >>>> >>>>What else do I need ? >>>> >>>> >>>>What should all this cost and where can I get said parts and >>>> >>>> >>>pieces ? >>> >>> >>>>Appreciatively, >>>> >>>>Courtney >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com >>>To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats- >>> > unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > >>>Yahoo! Groups Links >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >>-- >>s/v Mutiny >>Rhodes Bounty II >>lying Oriental, NC >>WDB5619 >> > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > -- s/v Mutiny Rhodes Bounty II lying Oriental, NC WDB5619| 6596|6592|2005-01-19 23:50:46|tronfixr|Re: To Brent -> how2 rig an alternator welder for a 335hp diesel en|I believe the following to be correct; For the same field winding excitation current in a 24VDC system, you will need a 130W light bulb (power(Watts)=current X voltage)if Brent is using 12VDC. Brent would be putting around 5.5 Amps through his field windings with a 65W bulb and a 12VDC supply. At 24VDC a 65W bulb would result in around 2.7A . This would be about the same as a 2 ohm resistor for 12VDC and a 9 ohm resistor at 24VDC. Using rpm to vary the output instead of using variable resistance on the field excitation puts a few kinks in figuring the output current. Another method would be to use a variable resistor (0 to 10 ohms?) rated at 100W 12VDC (200W 24VDC), leave the engine rpm steady and adjust the resistor for the desired output. Without knowing the output current and for how long that current can be sustained, it would be impossible to figure the duty cycle (the amount of time active compaired to the amount of time needed to cool down). The specs for the alternator should call out the max constant current output as well as the max field excitation. Something I wonder about is some auto alternators do not have the regulator built in to the case (Ford?). This could present a problem if you managed to get one without knowing it. This link describes making a welder with either type: http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/on-boardwelder/ Surprizingly, they do not mention choking the field excitation Mike --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Courtney Thomas wrote: > Thank you Brent. > > I'll try it :-) > > Courtney > > > > brentswain38 wrote: > > > > > Yes I used the 9 inch belt on the engine to drive the alternator, > > with a single A belt. I just used a common copper lug on the end of > > the cable with a wing nut to attach the stinger cable to the positive > > post of the alternator. The body is grounded on the boat, but you > > could rig another wing nut for the ground if you wanted to weld away > > from your truck. I have no idea what the duty cycle is, but the 100% > > for the scotty is probably true of all alternators.I mentioned the > > scotty in case you do burn out diodes and want to make a separate > > diode- heat sink arrangement.I find that my 100 amp welder is > > adequate for up to 1/8th inch rods( 6011 or stainless) but if it's > > the same price , I see no harm in going for a larger one. > > Brent > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Courtney Thomas > > wrote: > > > >>Thanks Brent. > >> > >>I assume the 9" pulley is to 'belt' the alternator. > >> > >>How'd you connect the weld cables to the battery terminals ? > >> > >>Was the duty cycle about 60% or what ? > >> > >>Since my truck is 24v [335hp], should I get 100 amp alt; hence, > >> > > have a > > > >>2400W welder ? If no, what then ? > >> > >>What'd you use to control the engine RPM ? > >> > >>Would you now get a larger alternator ? > >> > >>Pardon my obtuseness, but... I don't know why you told me about the > >> > > Scotty ? > > > >>Appreciatively, > >> > >>Courtney > >> > >> > >>brentswain38 wrote: > >> > >> > >>>Start with a 9 inch pulley on your engine. I fed the field > >>> > > directly > > > >>>from the starting battery. As this provides too much power , I > >>> > > put a > > > >>>65 watt car headlight bulb in the line . I also put a toggle > >>> > > switch > > > >>>in the line so I could turn the field of and let the diodes cool > >>> > > when > > > >>>I'm not welding. As the alternator is grounded thru the case, I > >>>hooked up the stinger cable directly to the positive post and > >>> > > started > > > >>>welding.I adjust the amperage by adjusting the RPM.I bought a 100 > >>> > > amp > > > >>>alternator from the auto wreckers for $35, the same price as a 35 > >>> > > amp > > > >>>alternator. I suspect a much larger one is the same standard > >>> > > price. > > > >>> I don't know how long the diodes will last, but I've been doing > >>>occasional welding since last summer and it's still going strong. > >>> > > So > > > >>>far it's cost me less than a days rental on a portable, so it's > >>>disposable. > >>> I have another one which was commercially built as a 100% duty > >>> > > cycle > > > >>>welder called a Scotty. It has six diodes in aluminium heat > >>> > > sinks. > > > >>>The diodes are mr5020 and mr5020 L.( right and left) > >>>Brent > >>> > >>>--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Courtney Thomas > >>> > > > > > >>>wrote: > >>> > >>> > >>>>I would like to enable mobile welding by using my truck's engine. > >>>> > >>>>Assuming it's doable, how should all this be setup ? > >>>> > >>>>What caveats are to be observed ? > >>>> > >>>>What's the simplest way to rectify the alternator current > >>>> > > to....DC > > > >>>weld.. > >>> > >>> > >>>>properly and safely ? > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> What cables, rod holder, etc. are recommended ? > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>What else do I need ? > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>What should all this cost and where can I get said parts and > >>>> > >>>> > >>>pieces ? > >>> > >>> > >>>>Appreciatively, > >>>> > >>>>Courtney > >>>> > >>>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>>To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > >>>To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats- > >>> > > unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > >>>Yahoo! Groups Links > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >> > >>-- > >>s/v Mutiny > >>Rhodes Bounty II > >>lying Oriental, NC > >>WDB5619 > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > s/v Mutiny > Rhodes Bounty II > lying Oriental, NC > WDB5619 | 6597|6592|2005-01-20 06:13:30|sae140|Re: To Brent -> how2 rig an alternator welder for a 335hp diesel en|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Courtney Thomas wrote: > > Since my truck is 24v [335hp], Hi Courtney Seeing as you already have a substantial 24V supply - why not use this 'as is', directly from the battery(ies) ? (Having disconnected both terminals from your truck, of course) Don't overdo it though, unless your truck can be push-started . a) make up a resistor pack from strips of s/steel to control the current, add a stinger/earth lead/ and rod ... and go. (simplest/cheapest/most economical) b) however, should you want to weld aluminium, then consider a hand- held spool gun from: http://www.mkproducts.com (Spoolgun and Sidewinder) or from: http://www.lincolnelectric.com/knowledge/articles/content/feedingalumi num.asp c) or, quite possibly the best option, take a look at: http://www.alaska.net/~akraven/readywelder.html which claims to be ok for all metals - optional resistor pack for current control. Never tried a spool gun, although I'd love to play with one. Sounds a good option for occasional repair work, or welding ally some distance from 'the box'. However, using small spools would be a very costly proposition for laying down serious metal. I don't see any reason why a spool-gun couldn't be home-made - say, using a battery-powered screwdriver to feed the wire, with controls etc. external. Maybe something for the boffins to think about ? Regards Colin| 6598|6592|2005-01-20 08:47:57|Courtney Thomas|Re: To Brent -> how2 rig an alternator welder for a 335hp diesel en|Colin, Thank you for your suggestions ! The truck weighs about 10 tons, so, since I only weigh about 140, I guess I'd have to get another person to help me push it off :-) Any guidelines on how much welding time I could get with the suggested setup ? Cordially, Courtney sae140 wrote: > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Courtney Thomas > wrote: > > >>Since my truck is 24v [335hp], >> > > Hi Courtney > > Seeing as you already have a substantial 24V supply - why not use > this 'as is', directly from the battery(ies) ? (Having disconnected > both terminals from your truck, of course) Don't overdo it though, > unless your truck can be push-started . > > a) make up a resistor pack from strips of s/steel to control the > current, add a stinger/earth lead/ and rod ... and go. > (simplest/cheapest/most economical) > > b) however, should you want to weld aluminium, then consider a hand- > held spool gun from: http://www.mkproducts.com (Spoolgun and > Sidewinder) or from: > http://www.lincolnelectric.com/knowledge/articles/content/feedingalumi > num.asp > > c) or, quite possibly the best option, take a look at: > http://www.alaska.net/~akraven/readywelder.html > which claims to be ok for all metals - optional resistor pack for > current control. > > Never tried a spool gun, although I'd love to play with one. > Sounds a good option for occasional repair work, or welding ally some > distance from 'the box'. However, using small spools would be a very > costly proposition for laying down serious metal. > > I don't see any reason why a spool-gun couldn't be home-made - say, > using a battery-powered screwdriver to feed the wire, with controls > etc. external. Maybe something for the boffins to think about ? > > Regards > > Colin > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > -- s/v Mutiny Rhodes Bounty II lying Oriental, NC WDB5619| 6599|6582|2005-01-20 11:49:02|Alex Christie|Re: painting with Wasser|Ted asked a while back about the paint on Gary's hull: According to Evan and Gary, the outside was sandblasted, then sprayed with Wasser tar, covering coat with mio-tar, then two top coats over covering coat. The inside was hand painted first with mio-zinc so they could weld through it for the furring strips, then spray painted with the Wasser Tar. Anyone out there with experience with Wasser? It would be interesting to hear about your experiences. I have heard pretty good things about it, and it sounds like it is as effective as epoxy. I like how it is fairly compatible with moisture in the air as I believe it is moisture-cured, meaning it could be used in more varied environments than epoxy can. With many Swain boats finished off in the open this is especially important. Alex   On 18-Jan-05, at 3:15 AM, edward_stoneuk wrote: > > > Gary, > Congratulations. Is it your boat in the cover page picture? It > looks very neat. What paint have you used? > Regards, > Ted > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 6600|6592|2005-01-21 00:18:45|T & D CAIN|Re: To Brent -> how2 rig an alternator welder for a 335hp diesel en|I know this stuff looks simple, but it is not quite as it first appears. Consider the following, and I hope this helps the discussion and experimentation along: The 100A alternator probably has a field resistance of at least 3 ohms at 20deg.C, so ignoring the resistance of the external wiring and the contact resistance of the slipring feed (some of which has a negative coefficient wrt temperature) you will not be feeding 5.5 amps through the circuit described. Apply the battery to the field at its nominal 12 V without any additional lamp resistance, and there might be about 4 amps, but probably less. It would need to be quite a bit less actually, because the wire size used in these things will not be happy at a continuous 4 amps except in Alaska. The field winding would be happy at 4 amps for no more than it takes for the copper and its encapsulating varnish to reach around 125 deg. C. This, of course, will be like asking "how long is a piece of string?" , so many are the variables involved in finding a sensible duty cycle for the non-standard use of a standard design. The 65W lamp has a hot resistance of something like 2.2 ohms and a cold resistance of less than 0.5 ohms. This tungsten (halogenated or plain) lamp is a variable resistor with a big negative coefficient of resistance with temp.. You will need something like 20 V to put 4 amps into the field with that lamp in series (if 4 amps is what is required). So why can Brent weld OK with his setup? Because it works for short periods and is within the design limitations of the unit for the rods he is using. It depends on how long you allow the thing to cool between welds. The average current through the field of a 100A alternator at full output is not found by ohms law when a regulator is used. It is a lot less because of the regulator switching action, especially when RPM is added to the picture. Take the regulator away (or build a special one), and some things can be changed. The 3 phase stator winding, whether connected in 'star' or 'delta', has its own characteristics. It also has an AC current limit of its own and that is why these things don't have a current regulator as well as a voltage regulator. The stator coils and their resistance, in conjunction with the air gap between rotor and stator, together with the frequency (RPM), and the electromagnetic performance of the stator iron laminations, all combine to limit current by a sort of AC resistance called impedance or reactance. Sort of 'self limiting' at some higher-than-normal output current. Commercial auto alternators use an interesting set of numbers to bring truth to the ratings discussion. Bosch alternators (and a lot of mass produced others) have some numbers on the casing like this: K1 14 20 55A or KC-A 14V 40 100A. ----- these translate to "Claw-pole" type -- 14 Volts (nominal) -- (20 or 40) hundreds of RPM at which speed, two thirds of the maximum current (36\55 or 66\100 in these examples) is available. ie, the 100 amp job will produce 14 volts at 66 amps at 4000 rotor RPM. Load it down with a low battery and it will produce a higher current than 66 at 2000 RPM but at a lower voltage, and if you can spin it at 6000 RPM, it will do lots of work at 12 volts and a little less at 14 to 15 volts when it is operating with its own regulator. How well the standard diode pack handles this non-standard work is really hard to pin down. There is no problem if the current output remains within 120% of rating for less than a 25% duty cycle, the temperature of the cooling air is not above (say) 30 C., and the external circuit is resistive. This last bit means that you need to ensure that the welding leads are not separated and coiled so as to create an inductive spike when the arc is broken at the end of a run. One plan would be to have the field switch Brent mentions on the hand piece so that the alternator field is disconnected before pulling the rod away. This would require one extra component in the form of a small power diode across the switch (in the reverse direction) to allow the rotor field to circulate its stored energy as the switch opens. Unfortunately, it would also mean the rod is likely to stick in the end pool, and then again, it's nice sometimes to be able to put the holder into tight corners without having an accidental flash or two. So the situation is not really simple, and then again I suppose it is if we don't get too fixated on the detail (which I am sure I do too often!). As Brent has said, these items are quite cheap to buy and replace if there is a failure, and there is no doubt that they can drive a welding arc under the right conditions. -----Original Message----- From: tronfixr [mailto:tronfixr@...] Sent: Thursday, 20 January 2005 14:20 To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Subject: [origamiboats] Re: To Brent -> how2 rig an alternator welder for a 335hp diesel engine ? I believe the following to be correct; For the same field winding excitation current in a 24VDC system, you will need a 130W light bulb (power(Watts)=current X voltage)if Brent is using 12VDC. Brent would be putting around 5.5 Amps through his field windings with a 65W bulb and a 12VDC supply. At 24VDC a 65W bulb would result in around 2.7A . This would be about the same as a 2 ohm resistor for 12VDC and a 9 ohm resistor at 24VDC. Using rpm to vary the output instead of using variable resistance on the field excitation puts a few kinks in figuring the output current. Another method would be to use a variable resistor (0 to 10 ohms?) rated at 100W 12VDC (200W 24VDC), leave the engine rpm steady and adjust the resistor for the desired output. Without knowing the output current and for how long that current can be sustained, it would be impossible to figure the duty cycle (the amount of time active compaired to the amount of time needed to cool down). The specs for the alternator should call out the max constant current output as well as the max field excitation. Something I wonder about is some auto alternators do not have the regulator built in to the case (Ford?). This could present a problem if you managed to get one without knowing it. This link describes making a welder with either type: http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/on-boardwelder/ Surprizingly, they do not mention choking the field excitation Mike --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Courtney Thomas wrote: > Thank you Brent. > > I'll try it :-) > > Courtney > > | 6601|6592|2005-01-21 04:32:34|Courtney Thomas|Re: To Brent -> how2 rig an alternator welder for a 335hp diesel en|Fascinatin' stuff for one as electrically challenged as I :-) Thank you, Courtney T & D CAIN wrote: > I know this stuff looks simple, but it is not quite as it first appears. > Consider the following, and I hope this helps the discussion and > experimentation along: > > The 100A alternator probably has a field resistance of at least 3 ohms at > 20deg.C, so ignoring the resistance of the external wiring and the contact > resistance of the slipring feed (some of which has a negative coefficient > wrt temperature) you will not be feeding 5.5 amps through the circuit > described. > Apply the battery to the field at its nominal 12 V without any additional > lamp resistance, and there might be about 4 amps, but probably less. > It would need to be quite a bit less actually, because the wire size used in > these things will not be happy at a continuous 4 amps except in Alaska. > The field winding would be happy at 4 amps for no more than it takes for the > copper and its encapsulating varnish to reach around 125 deg. C. This, of > course, will be like asking "how long is a piece of string?" , so many are > the variables involved in finding a sensible duty cycle for the non-standard > use of a standard design. > > The 65W lamp has a hot resistance of something like 2.2 ohms and a cold > resistance of less than 0.5 ohms. This tungsten (halogenated or plain) lamp > is a variable resistor with a big negative coefficient of resistance with > temp.. You will need something like 20 V to put 4 amps into the field with > that lamp in series (if 4 amps is what is required). > > So why can Brent weld OK with his setup? > > Because it works for short periods and is within the design limitations of > the unit for the rods he is using. It depends on how long you allow the > thing to cool between welds. > The average current through the field of a 100A alternator at full output is > not found by ohms law when a regulator is used. It is a lot less because of > the regulator switching action, especially when RPM is added to the picture. > Take the regulator away (or build a special one), and some things can be > changed. > > The 3 phase stator winding, whether connected in 'star' or 'delta', has its > own characteristics. It also has an AC current limit of its own and that is > why these things don't have a current regulator as well as a voltage > regulator. The stator coils and their resistance, in conjunction with the > air gap between rotor and stator, together with the frequency (RPM), and the > electromagnetic performance of the stator iron laminations, all combine to > limit current by a sort of AC resistance called impedance or reactance. Sort > of 'self limiting' at some higher-than-normal output current. > > Commercial auto alternators use an interesting set of numbers to bring truth > to the ratings discussion. Bosch alternators (and a lot of mass produced > others) have some numbers on the casing like this: K1 14 20 55A or KC-A 14V > 40 100A. ----- these translate to "Claw-pole" type -- 14 Volts (nominal) -- > (20 or 40) hundreds of RPM at which speed, two thirds of the maximum current > (36\55 or 66\100 in these examples) is available. ie, the 100 amp job will > produce 14 volts at 66 amps at 4000 rotor RPM. Load it down with a low > battery and it will produce a higher current than 66 at 2000 RPM but at a > lower voltage, and if you can spin it at 6000 RPM, it will do lots of work > at 12 volts and a little less at 14 to 15 volts when it is operating with > its own regulator. > > How well the standard diode pack handles this non-standard work is really > hard to pin down. There is no problem if the current output remains within > 120% of rating for less than a 25% duty cycle, the temperature of the > cooling air is not above (say) 30 C., and the external circuit is resistive. > This last bit means that you need to ensure that the welding leads are not > separated and coiled so as to create an inductive spike when the arc is > broken at the end of a run. One plan would be to have the field switch Brent > mentions on the hand piece so that the alternator field is disconnected > before pulling the rod away. This would require one extra component in the > form of a small power diode across the switch (in the reverse direction) to > allow the rotor field to circulate its stored energy as the switch opens. > Unfortunately, it would also mean the rod is likely to stick in the end > pool, and then again, it's nice sometimes to be able to put the holder into > tight corners without having an accidental flash or two. > So the situation is not really simple, and then again I suppose it is if we > don't get too fixated on the detail (which I am sure I do too often!). > > As Brent has said, these items are quite cheap to buy and replace if there > is a failure, and there is no doubt that they can drive a welding arc under > the right conditions. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: tronfixr [mailto:tronfixr@...] > Sent: Thursday, 20 January 2005 14:20 > To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [origamiboats] Re: To Brent -> how2 rig an alternator welder for a > 335hp diesel engine ? > > > > I believe the following to be correct; > > For the same field winding excitation current in a 24VDC system, you > will need a 130W light bulb (power(Watts)=current X voltage)if Brent > is using 12VDC. Brent would be putting around 5.5 Amps through his > field windings with a 65W bulb and a 12VDC supply. At 24VDC a 65W bulb > would result in around 2.7A . This would be about the same as a 2 ohm > resistor for 12VDC and a 9 ohm resistor at 24VDC. Using rpm to vary > the output instead of using variable resistance on the field > excitation puts a few kinks in figuring the output current. Another > method would be to use a variable resistor (0 to 10 ohms?) rated at > 100W 12VDC (200W 24VDC), leave the engine rpm steady and adjust the > resistor for the desired output. > > Without knowing the output current and for how long that current can > be sustained, it would be impossible to figure the duty cycle (the > amount of time active compaired to the amount of time needed to cool > down). The specs for the alternator should call out the max constant > current output as well as the max field excitation. > > Something I wonder about is some auto alternators do not have the > regulator built in to the case (Ford?). This could present a problem > if you managed to get one without knowing it. This link describes > making a welder with either type: > > http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/on-boardwelder/ > > Surprizingly, they do not mention choking the field excitation > > Mike > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Courtney Thomas > wrote: > >>Thank you Brent. >> >>I'll try it :-) >> >>Courtney >> >> >> > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > -- s/v Mutiny Rhodes Bounty II lying Oriental, NC WDB5619| 6602|6592|2005-01-21 06:59:07|sae140|Re: To Brent -> how2 rig an alternator welder for a 335hp diesel en|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Courtney Thomas wrote: > Colin, > > Thank you for your suggestions ! > > The truck weighs about 10 tons, so, since I only weigh about 140, I > guess I'd have to get another person to help me push it off :-) > > Any guidelines on how much welding time I could get with the suggested > setup ? > > Cordially, > Courtney Mmmm - good question. Really all depends on the age of your batteries, their capacity, the state of charge when you begin work, and whether you're tacking or seam welding. I'd always check the battery voltage before you start, and keep an eye on the voltage at regular intervals - say every 15 mins the first time out, just to be on the safe side. Personally, I wouldn't allow the batteries to drop more than a volt each. That may be a tad over-cautious, but lead- acids don't much enjoy being discharged too low. Also, that would be a helluva lump to push-start !! I'd guess you'd get an hour at 50% at 100A (by which time you'd have sucked out 50AH - BTW, what size are your batteries ?), or around 3 hrs or so if you were just tacking. All guesswork of course. [A typical 55AH car battery provides about 30mins @ 50%.] Sounds ok to me for emergency repair work, or maybe for fitting-up - but nothing beats kosher welding plant for hassle-free welding. I'm now left pondering how best to graft your 335HP motor into a Swain hull ... waterskiing anyone ? Colin| 6603|6603|2005-01-21 13:18:55|Jim Ragsdale|any list members on the gulf coast|Hi all, I am a new member to the list and have been reading archives for the past week. I have been interested in building a steel sailboat and found the origami method in my web research. It has caught my eye because it promises to be less welding and a more fair hull. Are any list members on the gulf coast? I am in mississippi and if there is anyone nearby, I would love to see a boat. Thanks, Jim Ragsdale [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]| 6604|6592|2005-01-21 17:21:39|brentswain38|Re: To Brent -> how2 rig an alternator welder for a 335hp diesel en|I put a voltmeter on the stinger and ground and it said 120 volts. It ran the angle grinder fine. Small angle grinders are cheaper than inverters. Perhaps I should try smaller and smaller light bulbs to see how small a one I can get away with. I throw the toggle switch off when I'm not welding ,to cool the diodes. Someone suggested a small light bulb in parallel with the stinger and ground to protect the diodes. Would that help? Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "T & D CAIN" wrote: > I know this stuff looks simple, but it is not quite as it first appears. > Consider the following, and I hope this helps the discussion and > experimentation along: > > The 100A alternator probably has a field resistance of at least 3 ohms at > 20deg.C, so ignoring the resistance of the external wiring and the contact > resistance of the slipring feed (some of which has a negative coefficient > wrt temperature) you will not be feeding 5.5 amps through the circuit > described. > Apply the battery to the field at its nominal 12 V without any additional > lamp resistance, and there might be about 4 amps, but probably less. > It would need to be quite a bit less actually, because the wire size used in > these things will not be happy at a continuous 4 amps except in Alaska. > The field winding would be happy at 4 amps for no more than it takes for the > copper and its encapsulating varnish to reach around 125 deg. C. This, of > course, will be like asking "how long is a piece of string?" , so many are > the variables involved in finding a sensible duty cycle for the non- standard > use of a standard design. > > The 65W lamp has a hot resistance of something like 2.2 ohms and a cold > resistance of less than 0.5 ohms. This tungsten (halogenated or plain) lamp > is a variable resistor with a big negative coefficient of resistance with > temp.. You will need something like 20 V to put 4 amps into the field with > that lamp in series (if 4 amps is what is required). > > So why can Brent weld OK with his setup? > > Because it works for short periods and is within the design limitations of > the unit for the rods he is using. It depends on how long you allow the > thing to cool between welds. > The average current through the field of a 100A alternator at full output is > not found by ohms law when a regulator is used. It is a lot less because of > the regulator switching action, especially when RPM is added to the picture. > Take the regulator away (or build a special one), and some things can be > changed. > > The 3 phase stator winding, whether connected in 'star' or 'delta', has its > own characteristics. It also has an AC current limit of its own and that is > why these things don't have a current regulator as well as a voltage > regulator. The stator coils and their resistance, in conjunction with the > air gap between rotor and stator, together with the frequency (RPM), and the > electromagnetic performance of the stator iron laminations, all combine to > limit current by a sort of AC resistance called impedance or reactance. Sort > of 'self limiting' at some higher-than-normal output current. > > Commercial auto alternators use an interesting set of numbers to bring truth > to the ratings discussion. Bosch alternators (and a lot of mass produced > others) have some numbers on the casing like this: K1 14 20 55A or KC-A 14V > 40 100A. ----- these translate to "Claw-pole" type -- 14 Volts (nominal) -- > (20 or 40) hundreds of RPM at which speed, two thirds of the maximum current > (36\55 or 66\100 in these examples) is available. ie, the 100 amp job will > produce 14 volts at 66 amps at 4000 rotor RPM. Load it down with a low > battery and it will produce a higher current than 66 at 2000 RPM but at a > lower voltage, and if you can spin it at 6000 RPM, it will do lots of work > at 12 volts and a little less at 14 to 15 volts when it is operating with > its own regulator. > > How well the standard diode pack handles this non-standard work is really > hard to pin down. There is no problem if the current output remains within > 120% of rating for less than a 25% duty cycle, the temperature of the > cooling air is not above (say) 30 C., and the external circuit is resistive. > This last bit means that you need to ensure that the welding leads are not > separated and coiled so as to create an inductive spike when the arc is > broken at the end of a run. One plan would be to have the field switch Brent > mentions on the hand piece so that the alternator field is disconnected > before pulling the rod away. This would require one extra component in the > form of a small power diode across the switch (in the reverse direction) to > allow the rotor field to circulate its stored energy as the switch opens. > Unfortunately, it would also mean the rod is likely to stick in the end > pool, and then again, it's nice sometimes to be able to put the holder into > tight corners without having an accidental flash or two. > So the situation is not really simple, and then again I suppose it is if we > don't get too fixated on the detail (which I am sure I do too often!). > > As Brent has said, these items are quite cheap to buy and replace if there > is a failure, and there is no doubt that they can drive a welding arc under > the right conditions. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: tronfixr [mailto:tronfixr@y...] > Sent: Thursday, 20 January 2005 14:20 > To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [origamiboats] Re: To Brent -> how2 rig an alternator welder for a > 335hp diesel engine ? > > > > I believe the following to be correct; > > For the same field winding excitation current in a 24VDC system, you > will need a 130W light bulb (power(Watts)=current X voltage)if Brent > is using 12VDC. Brent would be putting around 5.5 Amps through his > field windings with a 65W bulb and a 12VDC supply. At 24VDC a 65W bulb > would result in around 2.7A . This would be about the same as a 2 ohm > resistor for 12VDC and a 9 ohm resistor at 24VDC. Using rpm to vary > the output instead of using variable resistance on the field > excitation puts a few kinks in figuring the output current. Another > method would be to use a variable resistor (0 to 10 ohms?) rated at > 100W 12VDC (200W 24VDC), leave the engine rpm steady and adjust the > resistor for the desired output. > > Without knowing the output current and for how long that current can > be sustained, it would be impossible to figure the duty cycle (the > amount of time active compaired to the amount of time needed to cool > down). The specs for the alternator should call out the max constant > current output as well as the max field excitation. > > Something I wonder about is some auto alternators do not have the > regulator built in to the case (Ford?). This could present a problem > if you managed to get one without knowing it. This link describes > making a welder with either type: > > http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/on-boardwelder/ > > Surprizingly, they do not mention choking the field excitation > > Mike > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Courtney Thomas > wrote: > > Thank you Brent. > > > > I'll try it :-) > > > > Courtney > > > > | 6605|6592|2005-01-21 17:24:51|brentswain38|Re: To Brent -> how2 rig an alternator welder for a 335hp diesel en|Hoew much welding time? It will only cost yuy $35 to find out. Let us know how you make out. Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "sae140" wrote: > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Courtney Thomas > wrote: > > Colin, > > > > Thank you for your suggestions ! > > > > The truck weighs about 10 tons, so, since I only weigh about 140, I > > guess I'd have to get another person to help me push it off :-) > > > > Any guidelines on how much welding time I could get with the > suggested > > setup ? > > > > Cordially, > > Courtney > > > > Mmmm - good question. Really all depends on the age of your > batteries, their capacity, the state of charge when you begin work, > and whether you're tacking or seam welding. I'd always check the > battery voltage before you start, and keep an eye on the voltage at > regular intervals - say every 15 mins the first time out, just to be > on the safe side. Personally, I wouldn't allow the batteries to drop > more than a volt each. That may be a tad over-cautious, but lead- > acids don't much enjoy being discharged too low. Also, that would be > a helluva lump to push-start !! I'd guess you'd get an hour at 50% > at 100A (by which time you'd have sucked out 50AH - BTW, what size > are your batteries ?), or around 3 hrs or so if you were just > tacking. All guesswork of course. [A typical 55AH car battery > provides about 30mins @ 50%.] Sounds ok to me for emergency repair > work, or maybe for fitting-up - but nothing beats kosher welding > plant for hassle-free welding. > > I'm now left pondering how best to graft your 335HP motor into a > Swain hull ... waterskiing anyone ? > > Colin | 6606|6592|2005-01-22 02:12:25|T & D CAIN|Re: To Brent -> how2 rig an alternator welder for a 335hp diesel en|Hi Brent, the addition of a 110V lamp of 40 watts or above will help hold the output voltage down when not welding, but there could be two consequences: 1. The rods may not start as easily if the output volts are not at least 70 for stainless (prefer 80 to 90) --- so the lamp size (watts) needs to be tried out, it may be that a 20W one is appropriate for your particular setup. 2. The field still needs a rest to cool a bit, so the extra lamp idea is probably helping only the main diodes survive higher than normal reverse voltage spikes. My comment about suppressing the field spikes at switch-off time may be better handled by permanently connecting either a power diode directly across the field (in non-conducting direction for your external supply via the 65 W lamp). OR, if the battery is fully charged or separately maintained at 12/14 V, put another small (10W 12V) lamp directly across the slipring feed. Incidentally, your use of the 65W (or similar) lamp has a good effect in that it tends to keep the field current more constant as the battery drops its terminal voltage - assuming this battery isn't being charged independently. This happens because the lower lamp current means the lamp filament resistance drops and so it is a simple constant current-like device. The 120V output at no load is likely to be more the result of RPM than field feed current under the conditions described earlier. (Auto idle down scheme required?) The field current has its biggest effect on no-output load volts at the low end of the RPM range. Terry -----Original Message----- From: brentswain38 [mailto:brentswain38@...] Sent: Saturday, 22 January 2005 07:52 To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Subject: [origamiboats] Re: To Brent -> how2 rig an alternator welder for a 335hp diesel engine ? I put a voltmeter on the stinger and ground and it said 120 volts. It ran the angle grinder fine. Small angle grinders are cheaper than inverters. Perhaps I should try smaller and smaller light bulbs to see how small a one I can get away with. I throw the toggle switch off when I'm not welding ,to cool the diodes. Someone suggested a small light bulb in parallel with the stinger and ground to protect the diodes. Would that help? Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "T & D CAIN" wrote: > I know this stuff looks simple, but it is not quite as it first appears. > Consider the following, and I hope this helps the discussion and > experimentation along: > > The 100A alternator probably has a field resistance of at least 3 ohms at > 20deg.C, so ignoring the resistance of the external wiring and the contact > resistance of the slipring feed (some of which has a negative coefficient > wrt temperature) you will not be feeding 5.5 amps through the circuit > described. > Apply the battery to the field at its nominal 12 V without any additional > lamp resistance, and there might be about 4 amps, but probably less. > It would need to be quite a bit less actually, because the wire size used in > these things will not be happy at a continuous 4 amps except in Alaska. > The field winding would be happy at 4 amps for no more than it takes for the > copper and its encapsulating varnish to reach around 125 deg. C. This, of > course, will be like asking "how long is a piece of string?" , so many are > the variables involved in finding a sensible duty cycle for the non- standard > use of a standard design. > > The 65W lamp has a hot resistance of something like 2.2 ohms and a cold > resistance of less than 0.5 ohms. This tungsten (halogenated or plain) lamp > is a variable resistor with a big negative coefficient of resistance with > temp.. You will need something like 20 V to put 4 amps into the field with > that lamp in series (if 4 amps is what is required). > > So why can Brent weld OK with his setup? > > Because it works for short periods and is within the design limitations of > the unit for the rods he is using. It depends on how long you allow the > thing to cool between welds. > The average current through the field of a 100A alternator at full output is > not found by ohms law when a regulator is used. It is a lot less because of > the regulator switching action, especially when RPM is added to the picture. > Take the regulator away (or build a special one), and some things can be > changed. > > The 3 phase stator winding, whether connected in 'star' or 'delta', has its > own characteristics. It also has an AC current limit of its own and that is > why these things don't have a current regulator as well as a voltage > regulator. The stator coils and their resistance, in conjunction with the > air gap between rotor and stator, together with the frequency (RPM), and the > electromagnetic performance of the stator iron laminations, all combine to > limit current by a sort of AC resistance called impedance or reactance. Sort > of 'self limiting' at some higher-than-normal output current. > > Commercial auto alternators use an interesting set of numbers to bring truth > to the ratings discussion. Bosch alternators (and a lot of mass produced > others) have some numbers on the casing like this: K1 14 20 55A or KC-A 14V > 40 100A. ----- these translate to "Claw-pole" type -- 14 Volts (nominal) -- > (20 or 40) hundreds of RPM at which speed, two thirds of the maximum current > (36\55 or 66\100 in these examples) is available. ie, the 100 amp job will > produce 14 volts at 66 amps at 4000 rotor RPM. Load it down with a low > battery and it will produce a higher current than 66 at 2000 RPM but at a > lower voltage, and if you can spin it at 6000 RPM, it will do lots of work > at 12 volts and a little less at 14 to 15 volts when it is operating with > its own regulator. > > How well the standard diode pack handles this non-standard work is really > hard to pin down. There is no problem if the current output remains within > 120% of rating for less than a 25% duty cycle, the temperature of the > cooling air is not above (say) 30 C., and the external circuit is resistive. > This last bit means that you need to ensure that the welding leads are not > separated and coiled so as to create an inductive spike when the arc is > broken at the end of a run. One plan would be to have the field switch Brent > mentions on the hand piece so that the alternator field is disconnected > before pulling the rod away. This would require one extra component in the > form of a small power diode across the switch (in the reverse direction) to > allow the rotor field to circulate its stored energy as the switch opens. > Unfortunately, it would also mean the rod is likely to stick in the end > pool, and then again, it's nice sometimes to be able to put the holder into > tight corners without having an accidental flash or two. > So the situation is not really simple, and then again I suppose it is if we > don't get too fixated on the detail (which I am sure I do too often!). > > As Brent has said, these items are quite cheap to buy and replace if there > is a failure, and there is no doubt that they can drive a welding arc under > the right conditions. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: tronfixr [mailto:tronfixr@y...] > Sent: Thursday, 20 January 2005 14:20 > To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [origamiboats] Re: To Brent -> how2 rig an alternator welder for a > 335hp diesel engine ? > > > > I believe the following to be correct; > > For the same field winding excitation current in a 24VDC system, you > will need a 130W light bulb (power(Watts)=current X voltage)if Brent > is using 12VDC. Brent would be putting around 5.5 Amps through his > field windings with a 65W bulb and a 12VDC supply. At 24VDC a 65W bulb > would result in around 2.7A . This would be about the same as a 2 ohm > resistor for 12VDC and a 9 ohm resistor at 24VDC. Using rpm to vary > the output instead of using variable resistance on the field > excitation puts a few kinks in figuring the output current. Another > method would be to use a variable resistor (0 to 10 ohms?) rated at > 100W 12VDC (200W 24VDC), leave the engine rpm steady and adjust the > resistor for the desired output. > > Without knowing the output current and for how long that current can > be sustained, it would be impossible to figure the duty cycle (the > amount of time active compaired to the amount of time needed to cool > down). The specs for the alternator should call out the max constant > current output as well as the max field excitation. > > Something I wonder about is some auto alternators do not have the > regulator built in to the case (Ford?). This could present a problem > if you managed to get one without knowing it. This link describes > making a welder with either type: > > http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/on-boardwelder/ > > Surprizingly, they do not mention choking the field excitation > > Mike > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Courtney Thomas > wrote: > > Thank you Brent. > > > > I'll try it :-) > > > > Courtney > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links | 6607|6589|2005-01-22 04:05:53|Alex Christie|Re: Bilge keel vs. twin keels|A while ago, Cyrus asked about the twin keels seen on many of Brent's boats. I've gathered a few resources here that speak to that issue, and I'll say my piece too. It is worth exploring because I feel that the advantages of the twin keelers go well beyond just the ability to dry out on a tide. The first twin keel boats I saw were in England, down on the Devon coast. Seeing many boats sitting proudly high and dry on a mudflat on twin keels struck me as an excellent and practical, but saw very few boats in North America upon my return. On the BC coast, with our deep fiords and inlets, you'd think the shallow-draught and ability to stand up on a tide would not be needed, and there are many here who stick with fin keelers and do just fine. But after seeing Brent's boat many times on a drying mudflat, as well as another larger Swain hull on one other occasion dried out for bottom painting, I have to say I'm bitten by the twin keel bug. I started out rooting for twin keels because of certain slightly anarchistic tendencies I share with Brent against lining the pockets of landlubberly wharf authorities, for one. Plus, being able to haul out by drying out on a mudflat symbolizes the rugged independence that goes with the cruising lifestyle. But beyond the immediate appeal of twin keels, there are many excellent virtues of the twin keelers that have proven technical research behind them, and are worth exploring. I didn't know much initially about twin keel boats other than that they looked very practical, and avoiding the ever increasing fees levied on boaters to haul out these days (we don't even really have proper haul-out facilities here, in fact). This is the most common starting point where most are attracted to the idea. Then come the valid questions about the technical aspects of twin keels; I used to have some qualms about twin keels on a hydrodynamic level, thinking wetted surface would be more than that of a single keel, but I have long been proven wrong in that regard. Brent pointed out to me that the sheet of steel for the twin keeler he designed is the same sheet ordered for the single keel version -- one piece of 5x10' 1/4 inch plate. It is logical then that it makes little difference if you make one large keel versus two smaller ones out of that one piece, you are not adding any wetted surface at all. Loss of upwind performance? I'm not so sure. Two experienced designers, Ted Brewer and Patrick Bray believe there are gains to be had with twin keels. And as Brent pointed out once before, what slight losses he may have had when sailing against one of his single keelers he made up on another tack. In other words, when you average it out, the twin keel boats have an overall net gain, and the difference in sailing performance is so negligible that it may not be worth considering for the world cruiser, considering the wildly varying conditions one may encounter over the length of an offshore venture. Bray Points out, that, "Modern twin keels are of high aspect ratio and present less wetted area then a full keel or long fin keel while retaining the steady helm associated with full keels." Read further in, "The Advantages of Twin Keels": http://www.brayyachtdesign.bc.ca/article_twinkeels.html It is worth noting that there is a clear distinction between the modern twin keelers and the old slow "bilge keel" or "bilge plate" boats common at one time (and still around) in the UK. The old bilge plate boats did indeed have increased wetted surface because they had surface area of the single keel plus the outer plates, making for a lot of drag. These bilge plate boats are NOT what I am referring to when I say twin keels! Unfortunately the dreadful performance of the old-style bilge plate boats (essentially triple keel boats) has perpetuated a myth that any subsequent boat other than single fin is a big compromise. Current research shows this is simply not true. I've got a hard copy of Brewer's twin keel article somewhere, but cannot find it. If anyone else has it, or knows of a link for it, that would be very handy for all to read. Yachting Monthly, from the UK, has a short article on the advantage of drying out: http://www.ybw.com/ym/drying.htm They also have a short piece mentioning that modern yachts by Legend are being found to equal or better the performance of identical hulls equipped with single keels: http://www.yachtingmonthly.com/auto/newsdesk/20010814172527ymnews.html A sailor talks about performance of his Westerly twin-keeler. He mentions its roll-dampening characteristics, as well as its good turn of speed: http://drinian.homestead.com/files/twins.htm There are many resources on the web, easily found by googling "bilge keels" or "twin keels" (that's all I did). The best test will be to try the boat, and compare it to the same hull with single keel, which is what I hope to do this summer! I'll get back to you on it. Alex On 18-Jan-05, at 12:35 PM, Cyrus Safdari wrote: > > Is there any particular benefit to having twin keels > vs. bilge keels, other than being able to keep the > boat upright on ground? How about directional > stability? Impact resistance? Wetted surface area? > rolling resistance? prop performance? angle of heel? > > > > - | 6608|6608|2005-01-22 12:53:06|servo_bot|Questions about the 26 footer|Howdy folks, I'll warn you: I'm a a noob, but I've scanned the archives, hoping that I won't repeat too many questions. First, I'm talking a stick welding course, starting next weekend, at my local community college. I plan to practice a great deal for some time before attempting to build ANYTHING. But, and please pardon my ignorance, is the SMAW process alone sufficient to construct a 26 footer in steel? Provided that the answer is yes, would the AC/DC capable version of Lincoln Electric's ubiquitous 225 machine be capable of welding the plate in the 26 footer? Second, does anyone have interior sketches or photos from a 26 footer? I couln't find any in the files or photos sections. What's the headroom like in one. I wouldn't expect full headroom in any 26 footer ... just curious. Finally, what are the capabilities of the 26 footer. Is it considered offshore capable or a coastal cruiser? Thanks! Andy| 6609|6608|2005-01-22 16:01:20|Alex|Re: Questions about the 26 footer|Andy, There is unfortunately a lack of photos of the 26 footer, something I hope to rectify soon (there is one not too far from me here on Vancouver Island). There is one photo folder of a 26 footer in the files entitled, "Dove III", the little red boat. This boat was built on Vancouver Island and made a transit of the Northwest Passage with three men on board a few years ago. The design was modified to have centreboard, and the pilot house was made higher than the regular version, making it into more of a motorsailer suitable to navigating in the ice latitudes. I can't remember correctly, but I believe they sailed right from Vancouver to get up there, hence made a pretty extensive offshore run up the coast, through the Bering Strait, and around Alaska just to begin the transit, which is pretty impressive a voyage in itself. I don't know of many 26 footers which have done the same lately! My preference for a single-handing boat would be the 31 footer, largely because I have seen that Brent has had so much success with his for over 18 years without feeling the need to "up-grade". The 36 footer is in my mind an ideal 2 to 3 person boat (or in my case, 2 adults and 2 kids, 2 dogs and one cat). After that comes the 40 footer, and the interior space in one of those is pretty big, too big for what we need currently. There are many small boats out there that are perfectlly capable offshore in terms of safety. The issue is more a case of load-carrying capacity for food, water and equipment, rather than seaworthiness. Perhaps by carrying freeze-dried food and using a water-maker, you could undertake long offshore passages in a 26 footer. Anyone on the list here have some experience with the 26 footer to add? The welder we have been using for constructing our 36 footer is the Lincoln 225 AC stick welder, and it has worked fine for all welding applications. Having learned on it, I can't see the need for anything more expensive, especially for a one-off project like this. Alex --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "servo_bot" wrote: > > Howdy folks, > > I'll warn you: I'm a a noob, but I've scanned the archives, hoping > that I won't repeat too many questions. > > First, I'm talking a stick welding course, starting next weekend, at > my local community college. I plan to practice a great deal for some > time before attempting to build ANYTHING. But, and please pardon my > ignorance, is the SMAW process alone sufficient to construct a 26 > footer in steel? > > Provided that the answer is yes, would the AC/DC capable version of > Lincoln Electric's ubiquitous 225 machine be capable of welding the > plate in the 26 footer? > > Second, does anyone have interior sketches or photos from a 26 footer? > I couln't find any in the files or photos sections. What's the > headroom like in one. I wouldn't expect full headroom in any 26 footer > ... just curious. > > Finally, what are the capabilities of the 26 footer. Is it considered > offshore capable or a coastal cruiser? > > Thanks! > > Andy | 6610|6608|2005-01-22 16:45:46|servo_bot|Re: Questions about the 26 footer|Hey Alex, Thanks for the reply. I would LOVE to build a 31. For a family of three, it would be much more comfy. My daughter is due Monday and I'm hoping that by the time she turns three, my family could undertake a serious, long-term cruise. I guess I've been thinking to myself that 26 feet was the "largest I could afford," as the maxim goes. After having compared wood composite and fiberglass one-off building or buying and refitting, it seems that I can best get the boat I want by building in steel, not paying for any professional labor. I'm pretty handy, but I've never welded before. The boat doesn't have to be a showpiece, just water tight, well insulated and provide minimalist comfort for three in port and sea berths for two, under way. Hopefully I'm not delusional, but it sure seems that a determined amateur with a welder can build a capable boat in steel, for much cheaper than wood or glass. Andy --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Alex" wrote: > > Andy, > > There is unfortunately a lack of photos of the 26 footer, something I hope to rectify soon > (there is one not too far from me here on Vancouver Island). There is one photo folder of > a 26 footer in the files entitled, "Dove III", the little red boat. This boat was built on > Vancouver Island and made a transit of the Northwest Passage with three men on board a > few years ago. The design was modified to have centreboard, and the pilot house was > made higher than the regular version, making it into more of a motorsailer suitable to > navigating in the ice latitudes. I can't remember correctly, but I believe they sailed right > from Vancouver to get up there, hence made a pretty extensive offshore run up the coast, > through the Bering Strait, and around Alaska just to begin the transit, which is pretty > impressive a voyage in itself. I don't know of many 26 footers which have done the same > lately! > > My preference for a single-handing boat would be the 31 footer, largely because I have > seen that Brent has had so much success with his for over 18 years without feeling the > need to "up-grade". The 36 footer is in my mind an ideal 2 to 3 person boat (or in my > case, 2 adults and 2 kids, 2 dogs and one cat). After that comes the 40 footer, and the > interior space in one of those is pretty big, too big for what we need currently. There are > many small boats out there that are perfectlly capable offshore in terms of safety. The > issue is more a case of load-carrying capacity for food, water and equipment, rather than > seaworthiness. Perhaps by carrying freeze-dried food and using a water-maker, you > could undertake long offshore passages in a 26 footer. > > Anyone on the list here have some experience with the 26 footer to add? > > The welder we have been using for constructing our 36 footer is the Lincoln 225 AC stick > welder, and it has worked fine for all welding applications. Having learned on it, I can't > see the need for anything more expensive, especially for a one-off project like this. > > Alex > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "servo_bot" wrote: > > > > Howdy folks, > > > > I'll warn you: I'm a a noob, but I've scanned the archives, hoping > > that I won't repeat too many questions. > > > > First, I'm talking a stick welding course, starting next weekend, at > > my local community college. I plan to practice a great deal for some > > time before attempting to build ANYTHING. But, and please pardon my > > ignorance, is the SMAW process alone sufficient to construct a 26 > > footer in steel? > > > > Provided that the answer is yes, would the AC/DC capable version of > > Lincoln Electric's ubiquitous 225 machine be capable of welding the > > plate in the 26 footer? > > > > Second, does anyone have interior sketches or photos from a 26 footer? > > I couln't find any in the files or photos sections. What's the > > headroom like in one. I wouldn't expect full headroom in any 26 footer > > ... just curious. > > > > Finally, what are the capabilities of the 26 footer. Is it considered > > offshore capable or a coastal cruiser? > > > > Thanks! > > > > Andy | 6611|6608|2005-01-22 18:00:47|brentswain38|Re: Questions about the 26 footer|You can get 6 ft headroom in the 26 by going for a small floor area aft. Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Alex" wrote: > > Andy, > > There is unfortunately a lack of photos of the 26 footer, something I hope to rectify soon > (there is one not too far from me here on Vancouver Island). There is one photo folder of > a 26 footer in the files entitled, "Dove III", the little red boat. This boat was built on > Vancouver Island and made a transit of the Northwest Passage with three men on board a > few years ago. The design was modified to have centreboard, and the pilot house was > made higher than the regular version, making it into more of a motorsailer suitable to > navigating in the ice latitudes. I can't remember correctly, but I believe they sailed right > from Vancouver to get up there, hence made a pretty extensive offshore run up the coast, > through the Bering Strait, and around Alaska just to begin the transit, which is pretty > impressive a voyage in itself. I don't know of many 26 footers which have done the same > lately! > > My preference for a single-handing boat would be the 31 footer, largely because I have > seen that Brent has had so much success with his for over 18 years without feeling the > need to "up-grade". The 36 footer is in my mind an ideal 2 to 3 person boat (or in my > case, 2 adults and 2 kids, 2 dogs and one cat). After that comes the 40 footer, and the > interior space in one of those is pretty big, too big for what we need currently. There are > many small boats out there that are perfectlly capable offshore in terms of safety. The > issue is more a case of load-carrying capacity for food, water and equipment, rather than > seaworthiness. Perhaps by carrying freeze-dried food and using a water-maker, you > could undertake long offshore passages in a 26 footer. > > Anyone on the list here have some experience with the 26 footer to add? > > The welder we have been using for constructing our 36 footer is the Lincoln 225 AC stick > welder, and it has worked fine for all welding applications. Having learned on it, I can't > see the need for anything more expensive, especially for a one-off project like this. > > Alex > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "servo_bot" wrote: > > > > Howdy folks, > > > > I'll warn you: I'm a a noob, but I've scanned the archives, hoping > > that I won't repeat too many questions. > > > > First, I'm talking a stick welding course, starting next weekend, at > > my local community college. I plan to practice a great deal for some > > time before attempting to build ANYTHING. But, and please pardon my > > ignorance, is the SMAW process alone sufficient to construct a 26 > > footer in steel? > > > > Provided that the answer is yes, would the AC/DC capable version of > > Lincoln Electric's ubiquitous 225 machine be capable of welding the > > plate in the 26 footer? > > > > Second, does anyone have interior sketches or photos from a 26 footer? > > I couln't find any in the files or photos sections. What's the > > headroom like in one. I wouldn't expect full headroom in any 26 footer > > ... just curious. > > > > Finally, what are the capabilities of the 26 footer. Is it considered > > offshore capable or a coastal cruiser? > > > > Thanks! > > > > Andy | 6612|6608|2005-01-22 20:52:13|servo_bot|Re: Questions about the 26 footer|Excellent! I was expecting much less headroom from a boat with such nice proportions. I'll be sending off for your book Monday, Brent. Thanks, Andy --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "brentswain38" wrote: > > You can get 6 ft headroom in the 26 by going for a small floor area > aft. > Brent > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Alex" wrote: > > > > Andy, > > > > There is unfortunately a lack of photos of the 26 footer, something > I hope to rectify soon > > (there is one not too far from me here on Vancouver Island). There > is one photo folder of > > a 26 footer in the files entitled, "Dove III", the little red > boat. This boat was built on > > Vancouver Island and made a transit of the Northwest Passage with > three men on board a > > few years ago. The design was modified to have centreboard, and > the pilot house was > > made higher than the regular version, making it into more of a > motorsailer suitable to > > navigating in the ice latitudes. I can't remember correctly, but I > believe they sailed right > > from Vancouver to get up there, hence made a pretty extensive > offshore run up the coast, > > through the Bering Strait, and around Alaska just to begin the > transit, which is pretty > > impressive a voyage in itself. I don't know of many 26 footers > which have done the same > > lately! > > > > My preference for a single-handing boat would be the 31 footer, > largely because I have > > seen that Brent has had so much success with his for over 18 years > without feeling the > > need to "up-grade". The 36 footer is in my mind an ideal 2 to 3 > person boat (or in my > > case, 2 adults and 2 kids, 2 dogs and one cat). After that comes > the 40 footer, and the > > interior space in one of those is pretty big, too big for what we > need currently. There are > > many small boats out there that are perfectlly capable offshore in > terms of safety. The > > issue is more a case of load-carrying capacity for food, water and > equipment, rather than > > seaworthiness. Perhaps by carrying freeze-dried food and using a > water-maker, you > > could undertake long offshore passages in a 26 footer. > > > > Anyone on the list here have some experience with the 26 footer to > add? > > > > The welder we have been using for constructing our 36 footer is the > Lincoln 225 AC stick > > welder, and it has worked fine for all welding applications. > Having learned on it, I can't > > see the need for anything more expensive, especially for a one-off > project like this. > > > > Alex > > > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "servo_bot" > wrote: > > > > > > Howdy folks, > > > > > > I'll warn you: I'm a a noob, but I've scanned the archives, hoping > > > that I won't repeat too many questions. > > > > > > First, I'm talking a stick welding course, starting next weekend, > at > > > my local community college. I plan to practice a great deal for > some > > > time before attempting to build ANYTHING. But, and please pardon > my > > > ignorance, is the SMAW process alone sufficient to construct a 26 > > > footer in steel? > > > > > > Provided that the answer is yes, would the AC/DC capable version > of > > > Lincoln Electric's ubiquitous 225 machine be capable of welding > the > > > plate in the 26 footer? > > > > > > Second, does anyone have interior sketches or photos from a 26 > footer? > > > I couln't find any in the files or photos sections. What's the > > > headroom like in one. I wouldn't expect full headroom in any 26 > footer > > > ... just curious. > > > > > > Finally, what are the capabilities of the 26 footer. Is it > considered > > > offshore capable or a coastal cruiser? > > > > > > Thanks! > > > > > > Andy | 6613|6613|2005-01-22 22:02:32|T & D CAIN|FW: [origamiboats] Re: To Brent -> how2 rig an alternator welder fo|Well, this one contained an error, the tungsten filament resistance has a positive coefficient with temperature increase, not a negative as typed in par 4 ---- the copper-loaded carbon brushes on the sliprings have a small negative coeff. --- if no copper loading, carbon brushes exhibit a strong negative coefficient --- the hotter they get, the lower their resistance. The rest of it re-reads OK !!!! Mea Culpa Terry -----Original Message----- From: T & D CAIN [mailto:thcain@...] Sent: Friday, 21 January 2005 14:49 To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [origamiboats] Re: To Brent -> how2 rig an alternator welder for a 335hp diesel engine ? I know this stuff looks simple, but it is not quite as it first appears. Consider the following, and I hope this helps the discussion and experimentation along: The 100A alternator probably has a field resistance of at least 3 ohms at 20deg.C, so ignoring the resistance of the external wiring and the contact resistance of the slipring feed (some of which has a negative coefficient wrt temperature) you will not be feeding 5.5 amps through the circuit described. Apply the battery to the field at its nominal 12 V without any additional lamp resistance, and there might be about 4 amps, but probably less. It would need to be quite a bit less actually, because the wire size used in these things will not be happy at a continuous 4 amps except in Alaska. The field winding would be happy at 4 amps for no more than it takes for the copper and its encapsulating varnish to reach around 125 deg. C. This, of course, will be like asking "how long is a piece of string?" , so many are the variables involved in finding a sensible duty cycle for the non-standard use of a standard design. The 65W lamp has a hot resistance of something like 2.2 ohms and a cold resistance of less than 0.5 ohms. This tungsten (halogenated or plain) lamp is a variable resistor with a big negative coefficient of resistance with temp.. You will need something like 20 V to put 4 amps into the field with that lamp in series (if 4 amps is what is required). So why can Brent weld OK with his setup? Because it works for short periods and is within the design limitations of the unit for the rods he is using. It depends on how long you allow the thing to cool between welds. The average current through the field of a 100A alternator at full output is not found by ohms law when a regulator is used. It is a lot less because of the regulator switching action, especially when RPM is added to the picture. Take the regulator away (or build a special one), and some things can be changed. The 3 phase stator winding, whether connected in 'star' or 'delta', has its own characteristics. It also has an AC current limit of its own and that is why these things don't have a current regulator as well as a voltage regulator. The stator coils and their resistance, in conjunction with the air gap between rotor and stator, together with the frequency (RPM), and the electromagnetic performance of the stator iron laminations, all combine to limit current by a sort of AC resistance called impedance or reactance. Sort of 'self limiting' at some higher-than-normal output current. Commercial auto alternators use an interesting set of numbers to bring truth to the ratings discussion. Bosch alternators (and a lot of mass produced others) have some numbers on the casing like this: K1 14 20 55A or KC-A 14V 40 100A. ----- these translate to "Claw-pole" type -- 14 Volts (nominal) -- (20 or 40) hundreds of RPM at which speed, two thirds of the maximum current (36\55 or 66\100 in these examples) is available. ie, the 100 amp job will produce 14 volts at 66 amps at 4000 rotor RPM. Load it down with a low battery and it will produce a higher current than 66 at 2000 RPM but at a lower voltage, and if you can spin it at 6000 RPM, it will do lots of work at 12 volts and a little less at 14 to 15 volts when it is operating with its own regulator. How well the standard diode pack handles this non-standard work is really hard to pin down. There is no problem if the current output remains within 120% of rating for less than a 25% duty cycle, the temperature of the cooling air is not above (say) 30 C., and the external circuit is resistive. This last bit means that you need to ensure that the welding leads are not separated and coiled so as to create an inductive spike when the arc is broken at the end of a run. One plan would be to have the field switch Brent mentions on the hand piece so that the alternator field is disconnected before pulling the rod away. This would require one extra component in the form of a small power diode across the switch (in the reverse direction) to allow the rotor field to circulate its stored energy as the switch opens. Unfortunately, it would also mean the rod is likely to stick in the end pool, and then again, it's nice sometimes to be able to put the holder into tight corners without having an accidental flash or two. So the situation is not really simple, and then again I suppose it is if we don't get too fixated on the detail (which I am sure I do too often!). As Brent has said, these items are quite cheap to buy and replace if there is a failure, and there is no doubt that they can drive a welding arc under the right conditions. -----Original Message----- From: tronfixr [mailto:tronfixr@...] Sent: Thursday, 20 January 2005 14:20 To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Subject: [origamiboats] Re: To Brent -> how2 rig an alternator welder for a 335hp diesel engine ? I believe the following to be correct; For the same field winding excitation current in a 24VDC system, you will need a 130W light bulb (power(Watts)=current X voltage)if Brent is using 12VDC. Brent would be putting around 5.5 Amps through his field windings with a 65W bulb and a 12VDC supply. At 24VDC a 65W bulb would result in around 2.7A . This would be about the same as a 2 ohm resistor for 12VDC and a 9 ohm resistor at 24VDC. Using rpm to vary the output instead of using variable resistance on the field excitation puts a few kinks in figuring the output current. Another method would be to use a variable resistor (0 to 10 ohms?) rated at 100W 12VDC (200W 24VDC), leave the engine rpm steady and adjust the resistor for the desired output. Without knowing the output current and for how long that current can be sustained, it would be impossible to figure the duty cycle (the amount of time active compaired to the amount of time needed to cool down). The specs for the alternator should call out the max constant current output as well as the max field excitation. Something I wonder about is some auto alternators do not have the regulator built in to the case (Ford?). This could present a problem if you managed to get one without knowing it. This link describes making a welder with either type: http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/on-boardwelder/ Surprizingly, they do not mention choking the field excitation Mike --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Courtney Thomas wrote: > Thank you Brent. > > I'll try it :-) > > Courtney > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links | 6614|6614|2005-01-23 20:40:45|Gary|Notebook computer|Is anyone usuing a notebook computer as part or all of their nav system? Just wondering if mine (Dell recent model) is worth bringing aboard or selling off. Is it possible to combine some other components to use the notebook as complete unit i.e., gps, chart plotter & radar. Thanks... Gary| 6615|6614|2005-01-23 21:20:41|Bill Jaine|Re: Notebook computer|My neighbour has his laptop connected to the charts/GPS/nav system and can watch his progress on the computer as he motors along. Not sure how it works but I�m working on that. For sure take it along. Bill Port Hope. Canada -----Original Message----- From: Gary [mailto:greenguy2ca@...] Sent: 23-Jan-05 8:41 PM To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Subject: [origamiboats] Notebook computer Is anyone usuing a notebook computer as part or all of their nav system? Just wondering if mine (Dell recent model) is worth bringing aboard or selling off. Is it possible to combine some other components to use the notebook as complete unit i.e., gps, chart plotter & radar. Thanks... Gary To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com _____ Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: HYPERLINK "http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/"http://groups.yahoo.com/group/o rigamiboats/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HYPERLINK "mailto:origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe"origami boats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the HYPERLINK "http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/"Yahoo! Terms of Service. -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.7.2 - Release Date: 21/01/2005 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.7.2 - Release Date: 21/01/2005 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]| 6616|6592|2005-01-23 21:23:37|John Cupp|Re: To Brent -> how2 rig an alternator welder for a 335hp diesel en|Hello Courtney, On my service truck it was easy to set up a welder. You have a 335 Cummins that is 855 cubic inches if I am not mistaken on your transport truck. Just find an Old Lincoln trailer welder that the engine does not work on. Use the PTO setup on your transmission. The conversion will run you about a hundred dollars depending on where you scrounge your truck parts. You can have a very high output welder capable of welding 1" plate steel in a single pass. I have had a rash of broken ribs in the past three months and then I broke my right foot. It gave me plenty of time to catch up on all my reading and playing my blues guitar a lot also. I read every inch f Brent's book and recommend it for all naval architecture schools. I know I was rough on Bent when I first heard some of the theories but his book is excellent reading. I apologies Brent in Public and hope you can forgive me. Your book answered many questions that an old Boatbuilder like myself needed to have explained in detail. As in all home built anything the builder must be the judge of his own competence. I myself would like to see a catamaran plan in alloy. Getting back to powering welders. Even on my Newer Dodge pickup I have a pto fitted but I have not used it yet for a winch or a welder or both I have a trick tri post that comes off the back bumper and can pick up small diesel engines 2500 lbs or lighter with just my pickup. A welder can easily be run off the same PTO shaft and the welder can be placed in the bed or low in the front bumper. I have come across many gas powered welders that the engine no longer runs. Most heavy Duty Ford , Chevy and Dodge pickups have PTO plates that can be used to power these welders Just a thought but I have seen a lot of pawn shops with useless welders because the engine does not run. Remember a blacksmith used to weld metal together with some carbon powder and a lot of heavy hammering with heat. The rest of what we do is just a cake walk. --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Courtney Thomas wrote: > Fascinatin' stuff for one as electrically challenged as I :-) > > Thank you, > Courtney > > > > T & D CAIN wrote: > > > I know this stuff looks simple, but it is not quite as it first appears. > > Consider the following, and I hope this helps the discussion and > > experimentation along: > > > > The 100A alternator probably has a field resistance of at least 3 ohms at > > 20deg.C, so ignoring the resistance of the external wiring and the contact > > resistance of the slipring feed (some of which has a negative coefficient > > wrt temperature) you will not be feeding 5.5 amps through the circuit > > described. > > Apply the battery to the field at its nominal 12 V without any additional > > lamp resistance, and there might be about 4 amps, but probably less. > > It would need to be quite a bit less actually, because the wire size used in > > these things will not be happy at a continuous 4 amps except in Alaska. > > The field winding would be happy at 4 amps for no more than it takes for the > > copper and its encapsulating varnish to reach around 125 deg. C. This, of > > course, will be like asking "how long is a piece of string?" , so many are > > the variables involved in finding a sensible duty cycle for the non-standard > > use of a standard design. > > > > The 65W lamp has a hot resistance of something like 2.2 ohms and a cold > > resistance of less than 0.5 ohms. This tungsten (halogenated or plain) lamp > > is a variable resistor with a big negative coefficient of resistance with > > temp.. You will need something like 20 V to put 4 amps into the field with > > that lamp in series (if 4 amps is what is required). > > > > So why can Brent weld OK with his setup? > > > > Because it works for short periods and is within the design limitations of > > the unit for the rods he is using. It depends on how long you allow the > > thing to cool between welds. > > The average current through the field of a 100A alternator at full output is > > not found by ohms law when a regulator is used. It is a lot less because of > > the regulator switching action, especially when RPM is added to the picture. > > Take the regulator away (or build a special one), and some things can be > > changed. > > > > The 3 phase stator winding, whether connected in 'star' or 'delta', has its > > own characteristics. It also has an AC current limit of its own and that is > > why these things don't have a current regulator as well as a voltage > > regulator. The stator coils and their resistance, in conjunction with the > > air gap between rotor and stator, together with the frequency (RPM), and the > > electromagnetic performance of the stator iron laminations, all combine to > > limit current by a sort of AC resistance called impedance or reactance. Sort > > of 'self limiting' at some higher-than-normal output current. > > > > Commercial auto alternators use an interesting set of numbers to bring truth > > to the ratings discussion. Bosch alternators (and a lot of mass produced > > others) have some numbers on the casing like this: K1 14 20 55A or KC-A 14V > > 40 100A. ----- these translate to "Claw-pole" type -- 14 Volts (nominal) -- > > (20 or 40) hundreds of RPM at which speed, two thirds of the maximum current > > (36\55 or 66\100 in these examples) is available. ie, the 100 amp job will > > produce 14 volts at 66 amps at 4000 rotor RPM. Load it down with a low > > battery and it will produce a higher current than 66 at 2000 RPM but at a > > lower voltage, and if you can spin it at 6000 RPM, it will do lots of work > > at 12 volts and a little less at 14 to 15 volts when it is operating with > > its own regulator. > > > > How well the standard diode pack handles this non-standard work is really > > hard to pin down. There is no problem if the current output remains within > > 120% of rating for less than a 25% duty cycle, the temperature of the > > cooling air is not above (say) 30 C., and the external circuit is resistive. > > This last bit means that you need to ensure that the welding leads are not > > separated and coiled so as to create an inductive spike when the arc is > > broken at the end of a run. One plan would be to have the field switch Brent > > mentions on the hand piece so that the alternator field is disconnected > > before pulling the rod away. This would require one extra component in the > > form of a small power diode across the switch (in the reverse direction) to > > allow the rotor field to circulate its stored energy as the switch opens. > > Unfortunately, it would also mean the rod is likely to stick in the end > > pool, and then again, it's nice sometimes to be able to put the holder into > > tight corners without having an accidental flash or two. > > So the situation is not really simple, and then again I suppose it is if we > > don't get too fixated on the detail (which I am sure I do too often!). > > > > As Brent has said, these items are quite cheap to buy and replace if there > > is a failure, and there is no doubt that they can drive a welding arc under > > the right conditions. > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: tronfixr [mailto:tronfixr@y...] > > Sent: Thursday, 20 January 2005 14:20 > > To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [origamiboats] Re: To Brent -> how2 rig an alternator welder for a > > 335hp diesel engine ? > > > > > > > > I believe the following to be correct; > > > > For the same field winding excitation current in a 24VDC system, you > > will need a 130W light bulb (power(Watts)=current X voltage)if Brent > > is using 12VDC. Brent would be putting around 5.5 Amps through his > > field windings with a 65W bulb and a 12VDC supply. At 24VDC a 65W bulb > > would result in around 2.7A . This would be about the same as a 2 ohm > > resistor for 12VDC and a 9 ohm resistor at 24VDC. Using rpm to vary > > the output instead of using variable resistance on the field > > excitation puts a few kinks in figuring the output current. Another > > method would be to use a variable resistor (0 to 10 ohms?) rated at > > 100W 12VDC (200W 24VDC), leave the engine rpm steady and adjust the > > resistor for the desired output. > > > > Without knowing the output current and for how long that current can > > be sustained, it would be impossible to figure the duty cycle (the > > amount of time active compaired to the amount of time needed to cool > > down). The specs for the alternator should call out the max constant > > current output as well as the max field excitation. > > > > Something I wonder about is some auto alternators do not have the > > regulator built in to the case (Ford?). This could present a problem > > if you managed to get one without knowing it. This link describes > > making a welder with either type: > > > > http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/on-boardwelder/ > > > > Surprizingly, they do not mention choking the field excitation > > > > Mike > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Courtney Thomas > > wrote: > > > >>Thank you Brent. > >> > >>I'll try it :-) > >> > >>Courtney > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats- unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > s/v Mutiny > Rhodes Bounty II > lying Oriental, NC > WDB5619 | 6617|6617|2005-01-23 23:34:42|Alex|who knows how to zip file the posts?|Hi all, Maxxard did a great job at zipping the messages into a tidy little package back in 2002, but I have no idea how he did it. We have a group member who'd like to get at them this way. Does anyone remember how it was done, and could they do it for the our over 6000 posts we now have? Sure would be handy. A free cruise in my boat (er, when it is completed) for the first one to get this done! Regards, Alex| 6618|6614|2005-01-24 00:51:17|Marcel Demers|Re: Notebook computer|Hy Gary I am finishing the intérior of my Brent Swain 36 and I Am taking my laptop along for sure..... >I don't know if it falls in your expectations but you can use the notebook also to receive and send your dayly emails from your boat with a HAM Radio and modem(Pactor2 or 3) also get your weather fax. It is also correct that you can use it for navigation(for that use you don't need the Ham Radio) the GPS sends via a data cable to your notebook the position of your boat and the long. and latt. is transfered in the electronic navigation chart. All that with a chart program ( chart View Pro, Nobeltec, The Capt'n...etc) The one I am using now is a Compaq Pressario 1621 233mhz. not all that fast but it does the job I might change just before I ship out.... Marcel| 6619|6614|2005-01-24 05:04:13|ON4DMT|Re: Notebook computer|Hi Gary, I'm new to the group and just interested in boatbuilding. Saw your message on notebook computers: you will probably want to know that notebooks aren't designed for humid and salt water conditions. I've heard they last only a year, maybe two if they remain continuously on board a ship. That said, I wouldn't hesitate to bring an older/cheaper model on board and hook it up to GSP/radar/HF Transceiver. There ARE notebooks that are specifically designed for boat conditions (water tight and not corroding so fast), but I have no idea what these would cost. Take care, Axel (PC Engineer) ----- Original Message ----- From: Gary To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, January 24, 2005 2:40 AM Subject: [origamiboats] Notebook computer Is anyone usuing a notebook computer as part or all of their nav system? Just wondering if mine (Dell recent model) is worth bringing aboard or selling off. Is it possible to combine some other components to use the notebook as complete unit i.e., gps, chart plotter & radar. Thanks... Gary To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links a.. To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/ b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 6620|6592|2005-01-24 08:34:50|Courtney Thomas|Re: To Brent -> how2 rig an alternator welder for a 335hp diesel en|John, Thanks so much for your suggestion. I already have a PTO set up on that truck for a hydraulic hoist. How, exactly, should I rig up a welder to it, as well ? Most encouraged, Courtney John Cupp wrote: > > Hello Courtney, > > On my service truck it was easy to set up a welder. You have a 335 > Cummins that is 855 cubic inches if I am not mistaken on your > transport truck. Just find an Old Lincoln trailer welder that the > engine does not work on. Use the PTO setup on your transmission. > The conversion will run you about a hundred dollars depending on > where you scrounge your truck parts. You can have a very high > output welder capable of welding 1" plate steel in a single pass. > > I have had a rash of broken ribs in the past three months and then I > broke my right foot. It gave me plenty of time to catch up on all my > reading and playing my blues guitar a lot also. I read every inch f > Brent's book and recommend it for all naval architecture schools. I > know I was rough on Bent when I first heard some of the theories > but his book is excellent reading. I apologies Brent in Public and > hope you can forgive me. Your book answered many questions that an > old Boatbuilder like myself needed to have explained in detail. > > As in all home built anything the builder must be the judge of his > own competence. I myself would like to see a catamaran plan in > alloy. Getting back to powering welders. Even on my Newer Dodge > pickup I have a pto fitted but I have not used it yet for a winch or > a welder or both I have a trick tri post that comes off the back > bumper and can pick up small diesel engines 2500 lbs or lighter with > just my pickup. A welder can easily be run off the same PTO shaft > and the welder can be placed in the bed or low in the front bumper. > I have come across many gas powered welders that the engine no > longer runs. Most heavy Duty Ford , Chevy and Dodge pickups have > PTO plates that can be used to power these welders Just a thought > but I have seen a lot of pawn shops with useless welders because the > engine does not run. > > Remember a blacksmith used to weld metal together with some carbon > powder and a lot of heavy hammering with heat. The rest of what we > do is just a cake walk. > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Courtney Thomas > wrote: > >>Fascinatin' stuff for one as electrically challenged as I :-) >> >>Thank you, >>Courtney >> >> >> >>T & D CAIN wrote: >> >> >>>I know this stuff looks simple, but it is not quite as it first >>> > appears. > >>>Consider the following, and I hope this helps the discussion and >>>experimentation along: >>> >>>The 100A alternator probably has a field resistance of at least >>> > 3 ohms at > >>>20deg.C, so ignoring the resistance of the external wiring and >>> > the contact > >>>resistance of the slipring feed (some of which has a negative >>> > coefficient > >>>wrt temperature) you will not be feeding 5.5 amps through the >>> > circuit > >>>described. >>>Apply the battery to the field at its nominal 12 V without any >>> > additional > >>>lamp resistance, and there might be about 4 amps, but probably >>> > less. > >>>It would need to be quite a bit less actually, because the wire >>> > size used in > >>>these things will not be happy at a continuous 4 amps except in >>> > Alaska. > >>>The field winding would be happy at 4 amps for no more than it >>> > takes for the > >>>copper and its encapsulating varnish to reach around 125 deg. C. >>> > This, of > >>>course, will be like asking "how long is a piece of string?" , >>> > so many are > >>>the variables involved in finding a sensible duty cycle for the >>> > non-standard > >>>use of a standard design. >>> >>>The 65W lamp has a hot resistance of something like 2.2 ohms and >>> > a cold > >>>resistance of less than 0.5 ohms. This tungsten (halogenated or >>> > plain) lamp > >>>is a variable resistor with a big negative coefficient of >>> > resistance with > >>>temp.. You will need something like 20 V to put 4 amps into the >>> > field with > >>>that lamp in series (if 4 amps is what is required). >>> >>>So why can Brent weld OK with his setup? >>> >>>Because it works for short periods and is within the design >>> > limitations of > >>>the unit for the rods he is using. It depends on how long you >>> > allow the > >>>thing to cool between welds. >>>The average current through the field of a 100A alternator at >>> > full output is > >>>not found by ohms law when a regulator is used. It is a lot less >>> > because of > >>>the regulator switching action, especially when RPM is added to >>> > the picture. > >>>Take the regulator away (or build a special one), and some >>> > things can be > >>>changed. >>> >>>The 3 phase stator winding, whether connected in 'star' >>> > or 'delta', has its > >>>own characteristics. It also has an AC current limit of its own >>> > and that is > >>>why these things don't have a current regulator as well as a >>> > voltage > >>>regulator. The stator coils and their resistance, in conjunction >>> > with the > >>>air gap between rotor and stator, together with the frequency >>> > (RPM), and the > >>>electromagnetic performance of the stator iron laminations, all >>> > combine to > >>>limit current by a sort of AC resistance called impedance or >>> > reactance. Sort > >>>of 'self limiting' at some higher-than-normal output current. >>> >>>Commercial auto alternators use an interesting set of numbers to >>> > bring truth > >>>to the ratings discussion. Bosch alternators (and a lot of mass >>> > produced > >>>others) have some numbers on the casing like this: K1 14 20 55A >>> > or KC-A 14V > >>>40 100A. ----- these translate to "Claw-pole" type -- 14 Volts >>> > (nominal) -- > >>>(20 or 40) hundreds of RPM at which speed, two thirds of the >>> > maximum current > >>>(36\55 or 66\100 in these examples) is available. ie, the 100 >>> > amp job will > >>>produce 14 volts at 66 amps at 4000 rotor RPM. Load it down with >>> > a low > >>>battery and it will produce a higher current than 66 at 2000 RPM >>> > but at a > >>>lower voltage, and if you can spin it at 6000 RPM, it will do >>> > lots of work > >>>at 12 volts and a little less at 14 to 15 volts when it is >>> > operating with > >>>its own regulator. >>> >>>How well the standard diode pack handles this non-standard work >>> > is really > >>>hard to pin down. There is no problem if the current output >>> > remains within > >>>120% of rating for less than a 25% duty cycle, the temperature >>> > of the > >>>cooling air is not above (say) 30 C., and the external circuit >>> > is resistive. > >>>This last bit means that you need to ensure that the welding >>> > leads are not > >>>separated and coiled so as to create an inductive spike when the >>> > arc is > >>>broken at the end of a run. One plan would be to have the field >>> > switch Brent > >>>mentions on the hand piece so that the alternator field is >>> > disconnected > >>>before pulling the rod away. This would require one extra >>> > component in the > >>>form of a small power diode across the switch (in the reverse >>> > direction) to > >>>allow the rotor field to circulate its stored energy as the >>> > switch opens. > >>>Unfortunately, it would also mean the rod is likely to stick in >>> > the end > >>>pool, and then again, it's nice sometimes to be able to put the >>> > holder into > >>>tight corners without having an accidental flash or two. >>>So the situation is not really simple, and then again I suppose >>> > it is if we > >>>don't get too fixated on the detail (which I am sure I do too >>> > often!). > >>>As Brent has said, these items are quite cheap to buy and >>> > replace if there > >>>is a failure, and there is no doubt that they can drive a >>> > welding arc under > >>>the right conditions. >>> >>> >>>-----Original Message----- >>>From: tronfixr [mailto:tronfixr@y...] >>>Sent: Thursday, 20 January 2005 14:20 >>>To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com >>>Subject: [origamiboats] Re: To Brent -> how2 rig an >>> > alternator welder for a > >>>335hp diesel engine ? >>> >>> >>> >>>I believe the following to be correct; >>> >>>For the same field winding excitation current in a 24VDC system, >>> > you > >>>will need a 130W light bulb (power(Watts)=current X voltage)if >>> > Brent > >>>is using 12VDC. Brent would be putting around 5.5 Amps through >>> > his > >>>field windings with a 65W bulb and a 12VDC supply. At 24VDC a >>> > 65W bulb > >>>would result in around 2.7A . This would be about the same as a >>> > 2 ohm > >>>resistor for 12VDC and a 9 ohm resistor at 24VDC. Using rpm to >>> > vary > >>>the output instead of using variable resistance on the field >>>excitation puts a few kinks in figuring the output current. >>> > Another > >>>method would be to use a variable resistor (0 to 10 ohms?) rated >>> > at > >>>100W 12VDC (200W 24VDC), leave the engine rpm steady and adjust >>> > the > >>>resistor for the desired output. >>> >>>Without knowing the output current and for how long that current >>> > can > >>>be sustained, it would be impossible to figure the duty cycle >>> > (the > >>>amount of time active compaired to the amount of time needed to >>> > cool > >>>down). The specs for the alternator should call out the max >>> > constant > >>>current output as well as the max field excitation. >>> >>>Something I wonder about is some auto alternators do not have the >>>regulator built in to the case (Ford?). This could present a >>> > problem > >>>if you managed to get one without knowing it. This link describes >>>making a welder with either type: >>> >>>http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/on-boardwelder/ >>> >>>Surprizingly, they do not mention choking the field excitation >>> >>>Mike >>> >>>--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Courtney Thomas >>> > > >>>wrote: >>> >>> >>>>Thank you Brent. >>>> >>>>I'll try it :-) >>>> >>>>Courtney >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>>To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com >>>To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats- >>> > unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > >>>Yahoo! Groups Links >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >>-- >>s/v Mutiny >>Rhodes Bounty II >>lying Oriental, NC >>WDB5619 >> > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > -- s/v Mutiny Rhodes Bounty II lying Oriental, NC WDB5619| 6621|22|2005-01-24 09:12:13|origamiboats@yahoogroups.com|New file uploaded to origamiboats |Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the origamiboats group. File : /Aluframeless5.jpg Uploaded by : ben_azo Description : You can access this file at the URL: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/files/Aluframeless5.jpg To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit: http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files Regards, ben_azo | 6622|22|2005-01-24 09:15:21|origamiboats@yahoogroups.com|New file uploaded to origamiboats |Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the origamiboats group. File : /12mmAluWeld1.jpg Uploaded by : ben_azo Description : info for welders You can access this file at the URL: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/files/12mmAluWeld1.jpg To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit: http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files Regards, ben_azo | 6623|22|2005-01-24 09:19:14|origamiboats@yahoogroups.com|New file uploaded to origamiboats |Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the origamiboats group. File : /12mmAluWeld2.jpg Uploaded by : ben_azo Description : info for welders You can access this file at the URL: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/files/12mmAluWeld2.jpg To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit: http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files Regards, ben_azo | 6624|22|2005-01-24 09:20:37|origamiboats@yahoogroups.com|New file uploaded to origamiboats |Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the origamiboats group. File : /7-BIMINI.jpg Uploaded by : ben_azo Description : twinkeel speedster :-) You can access this file at the URL: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/files/7-BIMINI.jpg To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit: http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files Regards, ben_azo | 6625|6589|2005-01-24 12:22:01|dreemer1962|Re: Bilge keel vs. twin keels|Performance oriented twin keels: http://www.lerouge-yachts.com/mono_TKS.htm Milan| 6626|6614|2005-01-24 12:35:27|Puck III|Re: Notebook computer|Hi Axel, your advise is great , I use a Panasonic Toughbook on board see the pics I posted in Photos , it takes care of the navigation ( MaxSea ) but also directs the autohelm the all instalation was under 500 $ , ( ebay :-) I need to import the weatherforcast via a GRIPfile and until now I use a GSM for that , I will probably rent a Satphone for longer trips , cause even if the PactorModem and SSB sounds great its so slow its just good for text mail and certainly not fast enough for surfing the Groups :-) Henk DeVelde used the same notebook on Campina around the world , my Toughbook with the old MMX processor and the Win98SE is stable and never let me down With a memory extension I use it much for Pics cause I believe a good Pic is worth many words :-) Old Ben --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "ON4DMT" wrote: > Hi Gary, > > > I'm new to the group and just interested in boatbuilding. > Saw your message on notebook computers: you will probably want to know that notebooks aren't designed for humid and salt water conditions. I've heard they last only a year, maybe two if they remain continuously on board a ship. That said, I wouldn't hesitate to bring an older/cheaper model on board and hook it up to GSP/radar/HF Transceiver. > There ARE notebooks that are specifically designed for boat conditions (water tight and not corroding so fast), but I have no idea what these would cost. > > Take care, > > Axel > (PC Engineer) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Gary > To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Monday, January 24, 2005 2:40 AM > Subject: [origamiboats] Notebook computer > > > > Is anyone usuing a notebook computer as part or all of their nav > system? Just wondering if mine (Dell recent model) is worth > bringing aboard or selling off. Is it possible to combine some > other components to use the notebook as complete unit i.e., gps, > chart plotter & radar. > > Thanks... Gary > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Yahoo! Groups Links > > a.. To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/ > > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 6627|6614|2005-01-24 13:07:52|Alex Christie|Re: Notebook computer|Aren't there some plastic cases (Pelican brand?) made just for notebooks, which will keep your notebook dry? Keep in mind that a well insulated steel boat with the woodstove or any other heat source going has a very low humidity level compared to an uninsulated glass boat (which is more like living in a plastic bag). A laptop sitting down below on your chart table, well out of the elements, would probably be as well off as it would be sitting in a house, save for a touch of salt in the general atmosphere (so yes, don't bring your most expensive laptop). A friend once asked me to pull out a chart out from behind an opening panel to show me how dry it was on his boat; the chart was bone dry, and it had been resting up against the foam which was sprayed on the hull. I would say with some confidence that a laptop would last longer than you'd think onboard one of these boats. Here's a question for computer techs out there: I noticed that the circuit boards on my home computer are kind of glossy like there is a plastic coating on them. Is there something sprayed on to them, and if so would the same coating be on a laptop's boards thereby providing some protection against corrosion? Alex On 24-Jan-05, at 2:04 AM, ON4DMT wrote: > > Hi Gary, > > > I'm new to the group and just interested in boatbuilding. > Saw your message on notebook computers: you will probably want to know > that notebooks aren't designed for humid and salt water conditions. > I've heard they last only a year, maybe two if they remain > continuously on board a ship. That said, I wouldn't hesitate to bring > an older/cheaper model on board and hook it up to GSP/radar/HF > Transceiver. > There ARE notebooks that are specifically designed for boat conditions > (water tight and not corroding so fast), but I have no idea what these > would cost. > > Take care, > > Axel > (PC Engineer) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Gary > To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Monday, January 24, 2005 2:40 AM > Subject: [origamiboats] Notebook computer > > > > Is anyone usuing a notebook computer as part or all of their nav > system? Just wondering if mine (Dell recent model) is worth > bringing aboard or selling off. Is it possible to combine some > other components to use the notebook as complete unit i.e., gps, > chart plotter & radar. > > Thanks... Gary > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------- > Yahoo! Groups Links > > a.. To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/ > > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > Service. > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > | 6628|6608|2005-01-24 14:07:06|Puck III|Re: Questions about the 26 footer|Hi Andy, see the 26'BS in folder Black Hull in Photos too , Tell us more about your long term cruise project . From where to where ? via via ? Alaska ? the Tropics ? Small boat , small worries ;-) All you realy need is a sound boat that takes care of you and your family instead of you having to take care of the boat . The price for a pretty well finished boat with some real confort will be exactly the same as for a dog , just some more time and attention to finish her off well , so that you will be welcome guests wherever you arrive ; be it amongst fisherman in Tarpon Springs or in the Yacht club in Grand Bay Mauritius :-) Good insulation and ventilation is a must ; for all the rest we wait for your wishlist or designgoal . For now I have only one comment : you should compare waterlinelenght & displacement when looking at plans . Some small boats make some great troublefree cruisers. Old Ben --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "servo_bot" wrote: > > Hey Alex, > > Thanks for the reply. I would LOVE to build a 31. For a family of > three, it would be much more comfy. My daughter is due Monday and I'm > hoping that by the time she turns three, my family could undertake a > serious, long-term cruise. > > I guess I've been thinking to myself that 26 feet was the "largest I > could afford," as the maxim goes. > > After having compared wood composite and fiberglass one-off building > or buying and refitting, it seems that I can best get the boat I want > by building in steel, not paying for any professional labor. I'm > pretty handy, but I've never welded before. > > The boat doesn't have to be a showpiece, just water tight, well > insulated and provide minimalist comfort for three in port and sea > berths for two, under way. > > Hopefully I'm not delusional, but it sure seems that a determined > amateur with a welder can build a capable boat in steel, for much > cheaper than wood or glass. > > Andy > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Alex" wrote: > > > > Andy, > > > > There is unfortunately a lack of photos of the 26 footer, something > I hope to rectify soon > > (there is one not too far from me here on Vancouver Island). There > is one photo folder of > > a 26 footer in the files entitled, "Dove III", the little red boat. > This boat was built on > > Vancouver Island and made a transit of the Northwest Passage with > three men on board a > > few years ago. The design was modified to have centreboard, and the > pilot house was > > made higher than the regular version, making it into more of a > motorsailer suitable to > > navigating in the ice latitudes. I can't remember correctly, but I > believe they sailed right > > from Vancouver to get up there, hence made a pretty extensive > offshore run up the coast, > > through the Bering Strait, and around Alaska just to begin the > transit, which is pretty > > impressive a voyage in itself. I don't know of many 26 footers > which have done the same > > lately! > > > > My preference for a single-handing boat would be the 31 footer, > largely because I have > > seen that Brent has had so much success with his for over 18 years > without feeling the > > need to "up-grade". The 36 footer is in my mind an ideal 2 to 3 > person boat (or in my > > case, 2 adults and 2 kids, 2 dogs and one cat). After that comes > the 40 footer, and the > > interior space in one of those is pretty big, too big for what we > need currently. There are > > many small boats out there that are perfectlly capable offshore in > terms of safety. The > > issue is more a case of load-carrying capacity for food, water and > equipment, rather than > > seaworthiness. Perhaps by carrying freeze-dried food and using a > water-maker, you > > could undertake long offshore passages in a 26 footer. > > > > Anyone on the list here have some experience with the 26 footer to add? > > > > The welder we have been using for constructing our 36 footer is the > Lincoln 225 AC stick > > welder, and it has worked fine for all welding applications. Having > learned on it, I can't > > see the need for anything more expensive, especially for a one-off > project like this. > > > > Alex > > > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "servo_bot" wrote: > > > > > > Howdy folks, > > > > > > I'll warn you: I'm a a noob, but I've scanned the archives, hoping > > > that I won't repeat too many questions. > > > > > > First, I'm talking a stick welding course, starting next weekend, at > > > my local community college. I plan to practice a great deal for some > > > time before attempting to build ANYTHING. But, and please pardon my > > > ignorance, is the SMAW process alone sufficient to construct a 26 > > > footer in steel? > > > > > > Provided that the answer is yes, would the AC/DC capable version of > > > Lincoln Electric's ubiquitous 225 machine be capable of welding the > > > plate in the 26 footer? > > > > > > Second, does anyone have interior sketches or photos from a 26 footer? > > > I couln't find any in the files or photos sections. What's the > > > headroom like in one. I wouldn't expect full headroom in any 26 footer > > > ... just curious. > > > > > > Finally, what are the capabilities of the 26 footer. Is it considered > > > offshore capable or a coastal cruiser? > > > > > > Thanks! > > > > > > Andy | 6629|6589|2005-01-24 14:17:23|Puck III|Re: Bilge keel vs. twin keels|Hi Milan , thanks for the link to the Gaia8 : http://www.lerouge-yachts.com/gaia_80.htm I hope you did not mis the File: JPBart22.jpg in Files the BIMINI is a real flyer :-) Old Ben --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "dreemer1962" wrote: > > Performance oriented twin keels: > > http://www.lerouge-yachts.com/mono_TKS.htm > > Milan | 6630|6614|2005-01-24 15:17:46|Paul J. Thompson|Re: Notebook computer|Hi, I live on my boat La Chica all year round and have done so since 1991. Got my first laptop a DEC HiNote VP and used it until December last year (2004) when I replaced it with a Dell Inspiron 9100. The DEC was only a Pentium 100 but it did the job and gave not trouble at all until the screen started to die. Actually is not the screen that is dying but the ribbon cable that connect the screen to the graphics card, it started cracking at the folds. I am unable to get a replacement but have repaired it a number of times with a soldering iron. Tricky work and you need a magnifying glass to see properly. To get to the point, I use a computer to interface with my Inmarsat C unit (I am deaf so can only communicate by email , fax and telex) I also run charting software (GPSU and Maxsea) and weatherfax. I also use it to control the auto pilot (old Autohelm 7000) and use Cprepeater to display all instrumentation on the laptop. Regards, Paul www.sailingwithoutasound.com ON4DMT wrote: >Hi Gary, > > >I'm new to the group and just interested in boatbuilding. >Saw your message on notebook computers: you will probably want to know that notebooks aren't designed for humid and salt water conditions. I've heard they last only a year, maybe two if they remain continuously on board a ship. That said, I wouldn't hesitate to bring an older/cheaper model on board and hook it up to GSP/radar/HF Transceiver. >There ARE notebooks that are specifically designed for boat conditions (water tight and not corroding so fast), but I have no idea what these would cost. > >Take care, > >Axel >(PC Engineer) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Gary > To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Monday, January 24, 2005 2:40 AM > Subject: [origamiboats] Notebook computer > > > > Is anyone usuing a notebook computer as part or all of their nav > system? Just wondering if mine (Dell recent model) is worth > bringing aboard or selling off. Is it possible to combine some > other components to use the notebook as complete unit i.e., gps, > chart plotter & radar. > > Thanks... Gary > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Yahoo! Groups Links > > a.. To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/ > > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > >To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com >To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > | 6631|6592|2005-01-24 15:38:19|tronfixr|Re: To Brent -> how2 rig an alternator welder for a 335hp diesel en|Great stuff even if you aren't!! I knew we had a specialist out there... Thanks Terry! Mike --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Courtney Thomas wrote: > Fascinatin' stuff for one as electrically challenged as I :-) > > Thank you, > Courtney > > > | 6632|6614|2005-01-24 19:16:02|Puck III|Re: Notebook computer|Hi Paul , I am realy interested how you receive your Grip-file needed for the MaxSea via e-mail via the Inmarsat . I just had a look at the Inmarsat website and I would love to know what you are using , with a price-idea for the hardware ( the Mini-M looks interesting ) but also how long it takes you to receive the Grip-file and what's the cost per minute . By the way : You have a GREAT Website , I started using a bodyworn personal amplifier ( I use my GSM handfree earpeace for it ), so I will study the Links on your site with great attention . Tail winds is all I wish for you and your lovely boat. Si si , gusto mucho La Chica tambien :-) Old Ben --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Paul J. Thompson" wrote: > Hi, > > I live on my boat La Chica all year round and have done so since 1991. > Got my first laptop a DEC HiNote VP and used it until December last year > (2004) when I replaced it with a Dell Inspiron 9100. The DEC was only a > Pentium 100 but it did the job and gave not trouble at all until the > screen started to die. Actually is not the screen that is dying but the > ribbon cable that connect the screen to the graphics card, it started > cracking at the folds. I am unable to get a replacement but have > repaired it a number of times with a soldering iron. Tricky work and you > need a magnifying glass to see properly. To get to the point, I use a > computer to interface with my Inmarsat C unit (I am deaf so can only > communicate by email , fax and telex) I also run charting software (GPSU > and Maxsea) and weatherfax. I also use it to control the auto pilot (old > Autohelm 7000) and use Cprepeater to display all instrumentation on the > laptop. > > Regards, > Paul > www.sailingwithoutasound.com > > > ON4DMT wrote: > > >Hi Gary, > > > > > >I'm new to the group and just interested in boatbuilding. > >Saw your message on notebook computers: you will probably want to know that notebooks aren't designed for humid and salt water conditions. I've heard they last only a year, maybe two if they remain continuously on board a ship. That said, I wouldn't hesitate to bring an older/cheaper model on board and hook it up to GSP/radar/HF Transceiver. > >There ARE notebooks that are specifically designed for boat conditions (water tight and not corroding so fast), but I have no idea what these would cost. > > > >Take care, > > > >Axel > >(PC Engineer) > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Gary > > To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Monday, January 24, 2005 2:40 AM > > Subject: [origamiboats] Notebook computer > > > > > > > > Is anyone usuing a notebook computer as part or all of their nav > > system? Just wondering if mine (Dell recent model) is worth > > bringing aboard or selling off. Is it possible to combine some > > other components to use the notebook as complete unit i.e., gps, > > chart plotter & radar. > > > > Thanks... Gary > > > > > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > a.. To visit your group on the web, go to: > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/ > > > > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > > > > > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > >To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > >To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > | 6633|6633|2005-01-24 19:39:57|evanmoonjunk|about the 26'|I have built one 26',which the owner at the time sailed to Australia and then sold it there. The other "26'"(nothwest passage with 3 guys aboard) mentioned is actually one of three 28' that I built that were based on the 26' but stretched to 28' plus a wider beam, which was around 9'....Evan| 6634|6614|2005-01-24 19:42:21|audeojude|Re: Notebook computer|I thought everyone might be interested in this I just ordered one from company that has these on ebay. They are mil spec design. drop and get wet proof basically. they are averaging between 900 and 1000 on ebay right now. retail is about 3 grand they are tough..... warning.... get one with wifi. They are specialized and the company that manufactures them wont support these units sold on ebay. my understanding from a rep i spoke with is that the wifi card isnt hard to get but that the special adapter to connect wifi card to built in antenna in case is a factory only option. I ordered direct from company got unit with wifi plus docking station plus extended capacity battery for 1150.00 there is a 350 dollar gps unit that you can get off the net that is a module that snaps on to the edge of this tablet pc. :) scott carle ps its still pricy for the performance but the durability and weather proof seem to be unbeatable. I needed something like it for my job... nice that it will work with my boat also :) EG Xplore Rugged IX104 Tablet PC Pentium III 866MHz / 20GB HD / 256MB RAM With Docking Station Includes Additional Extra Long Life Battery Intel Pentium III Mobile 866MHz 256MB RAM 20GB Hard Drive 10.4" TFT-passive touch panel color LCD Windows XP Professional is installed (1) 6.4V 4500 mAH battery **EXTRA (1) 6.4V 9000 mAH extra long-life battery** P/N: BTP-54W3 Windows XP Pro Certificate of Authenticity Users Handbook X-Stand Docking Station P/N: 02-05004 Comes with its own power supply, manual, and PS/2 cable splitter Docking Station Includes The Following Ports: (1) Video Out (SVGA) (1) 9-pin Serial (1) 25-pin Parallel (1) Sound Port (2) USB Ports (1) Ethernet Port (1) 1384 Firewire| 6635|22|2005-01-25 01:07:41|origamiboats@yahoogroups.com|New file uploaded to origamiboats |Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the origamiboats group. File : /12mmAluWeldPic1.jpg Uploaded by : ben_azo Description : 2 pics in 1 frame ; selfexplaining You can access this file at the URL: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/files/12mmAluWeldPic1.jpg To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit: http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files Regards, ben_azo | 6636|6636|2005-01-25 01:28:10|Puck III|Frameless Aluminum Weld Pics in Photos & Files|5 mm , max 6 mm will do fine for a boat up to 28 ft :-) imagine the short assembly & welding time . keep the discussion in here please Old Ben| 6637|6589|2005-01-25 03:34:39|Gerd|Re: Bilge keel vs. twin keels|Hi Milan - interesting link, did't know that one. You should have a look at J P Brouns site as well: http://perso.wanadoo.fr/jean- pierre.brouns/ VERY nice designs there!! Gerd --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "dreemer1962" wrote: > > Performance oriented twin keels: > > http://www.lerouge-yachts.com/mono_TKS.htm > > Milan | 6638|22|2005-01-25 04:46:03|origamiboats@yahoogroups.com|New file uploaded to origamiboats |Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the origamiboats group. File : /Bluewater25a.jpg Uploaded by : ben_azo Description : Frameless Steel 25 info You can access this file at the URL: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/files/Bluewater25a.jpg To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit: http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files Regards, ben_azo | 6639|6589|2005-01-25 04:50:57|Puck III|Re: Bilge keel vs. twin keels|Hi Gerd , I saw your pretty 26' preliminaries , be a good fellah and post some of your fine drawings in here . Ben --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Gerd" wrote: > > Hi Milan - interesting link, did't know that one. You should have a > look at J P Brouns site as well: http://perso.wanadoo.fr/jean- > pierre.brouns/ > VERY nice designs there!! > Gerd > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "dreemer1962" > wrote: > > > > Performance oriented twin keels: > > > > http://www.lerouge-yachts.com/mono_TKS.htm > > > > Milan | 6640|6608|2005-01-25 06:34:50|Puck III|Re: Questions about the 26 footer|Hi Andy, I hope you like the Bluewater25 info I posted for you in the Files , a frameless steel bluewatercruiser . You will find 5 pages of pretty pics , a testsail in the Folder " 26' general info folder " in the Files of http://groups.yahoo.com/group/seabull/ see more pics & info in the extensions Seabull2 & 3 Just waiting for your designgoal & wishlist :-) Small can be beautifull !!! Old Ben --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III" wrote: > > Hi Andy, see the 26'BS in folder Black Hull in Photos too , > Tell us more about your long term cruise project . > From where to where ? via via ? Alaska ? the Tropics ? > Small boat , small worries ;-) > All you realy need is a sound boat that takes care of you and > your family instead of you having to take care of the boat . > The price for a pretty well finished boat with some real confort > will be exactly the same as for a dog , just some more time and > attention to finish her off well , so that you will be welcome > guests wherever you arrive ; be it amongst fisherman in > Tarpon Springs or in the Yacht club in Grand Bay Mauritius :-) > Good insulation and ventilation is a must ; for all the rest we > wait for your wishlist or designgoal . > For now I have only one comment : you should compare > waterlinelenght & displacement when looking at plans . > Some small boats make some great troublefree cruisers. > Old Ben > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "servo_bot" > wrote: > > > > Hey Alex, > > > > Thanks for the reply. I would LOVE to build a 31. For a family of > > three, it would be much more comfy. My daughter is due > Monday and I'm > > hoping that by the time she turns three, my family could > undertake a > > serious, long-term cruise. > > > > I guess I've been thinking to myself that 26 feet was the > "largest I > > could afford," as the maxim goes. > > > > After having compared wood composite and fiberglass one-off > building > > or buying and refitting, it seems that I can best get the boat I > want > > by building in steel, not paying for any professional labor. I'm > > pretty handy, but I've never welded before. > > > > The boat doesn't have to be a showpiece, just water tight, well > > insulated and provide minimalist comfort for three in port and > sea > > berths for two, under way. > > > > Hopefully I'm not delusional, but it sure seems that a > determined > > amateur with a welder can build a capable boat in steel, for > much > > cheaper than wood or glass. > > > > Andy > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Alex" > wrote: > > > > > > Andy, > > > > > > There is unfortunately a lack of photos of the 26 footer, > something > > I hope to rectify soon > > > (there is one not too far from me here on Vancouver Island). > There > > is one photo folder of > > > a 26 footer in the files entitled, "Dove III", the little red boat. > > This boat was built on > > > Vancouver Island and made a transit of the Northwest > Passage with > > three men on board a > > > few years ago. The design was modified to have > centreboard, and the > > pilot house was > > > made higher than the regular version, making it into more of > a > > motorsailer suitable to > > > navigating in the ice latitudes. I can't remember correctly, but > I > > believe they sailed right > > > from Vancouver to get up there, hence made a pretty > extensive > > offshore run up the coast, > > > through the Bering Strait, and around Alaska just to begin the > > transit, which is pretty > > > impressive a voyage in itself. I don't know of many 26 footers > > which have done the same > > > lately! > > > > > > My preference for a single-handing boat would be the 31 > footer, > > largely because I have > > > seen that Brent has had so much success with his for over > 18 years > > without feeling the > > > need to "up-grade". The 36 footer is in my mind an ideal 2 to > 3 > > person boat (or in my > > > case, 2 adults and 2 kids, 2 dogs and one cat). After that > comes > > the 40 footer, and the > > > interior space in one of those is pretty big, too big for what we > > need currently. There are > > > many small boats out there that are perfectlly capable > offshore in > > terms of safety. The > > > issue is more a case of load-carrying capacity for food, water > and > > equipment, rather than > > > seaworthiness. Perhaps by carrying freeze-dried food and > using a > > water-maker, you > > > could undertake long offshore passages in a 26 footer. > > > > > > Anyone on the list here have some experience with the 26 > footer to add? > > > > > > The welder we have been using for constructing our 36 footer > is the > > Lincoln 225 AC stick > > > welder, and it has worked fine for all welding applications. > Having > > learned on it, I can't > > > see the need for anything more expensive, especially for a > one-off > > project like this. > > > > > > Alex > > > > > > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "servo_bot" > wrote: > > > > > > > > Howdy folks, > > > > > > > > I'll warn you: I'm a a noob, but I've scanned the archives, > hoping > > > > that I won't repeat too many questions. > > > > > > > > First, I'm talking a stick welding course, starting next > weekend, at > > > > my local community college. I plan to practice a great deal > for some > > > > time before attempting to build ANYTHING. But, and please > pardon my > > > > ignorance, is the SMAW process alone sufficient to > construct a 26 > > > > footer in steel? > > > > > > > > Provided that the answer is yes, would the AC/DC capable > version of > > > > Lincoln Electric's ubiquitous 225 machine be capable of > welding the > > > > plate in the 26 footer? > > > > > > > > Second, does anyone have interior sketches or photos > from a 26 footer? > > > > I couln't find any in the files or photos sections. What's the > > > > headroom like in one. I wouldn't expect full headroom in > any 26 footer > > > > ... just curious. > > > > > > > > Finally, what are the capabilities of the 26 footer. Is it > considered > > > > offshore capable or a coastal cruiser? > > > > > > > > Thanks! > > > > > > > > Andy | 6641|6614|2005-01-25 07:01:30|sae140|Re: Notebook computer|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Alex Christie wrote: > Aren't there some plastic cases (Pelican brand?) made just for > notebooks, which will keep your notebook dry? A cheap alternative would be to hunt down a suitable size plastic bag (preferably one with a zipper) and run the laptop from within one of those - you'll need to do some crafty taping around the leads. Alternatively, just keep the laptop in a sealed bag when not in use. The clever bit is to use a sachet (I like to use transparent 35mm film cans) full of self-indicating silica gel - that way you know your precious bits are in bone dry conditions. At one time you could only get pink/blue gel, but other colours are now available (due to the different chemicals employed - not as a fashion effect !). When the colour changes, you just heat-up the gel in a stove to remove the moisture. You can re-use the stuff many times. Tip: use a larger pack in a sealed drum/box to keep your tools from rusting. > Keep in mind that a well insulated steel boat with the woodstove or any > other heat source going has a very low humidity level compared to an > uninsulated glass boat (which is more like living in a plastic bag). Seconded. I know of at least one guy who has a tv/video recorder/desktop computer - all the electronic live-aboard toys - apparently without any corrosion problems. Much to my surprise. Live and learn. > Here's a question for computer techs out there: I noticed that the > circuit boards on my home computer are kind of glossy like there is a > plastic coating on them. Is there something sprayed on to them, and if > so would the same coating be on a laptop's boards thereby providing > some protection against corrosion? Radios for moist, tropical use also have a coating of anti-fungal type potting compound sprayed just about everywhere ... the technique seems to work ok, providing the cases are of the sealed type to begin with. I believe the weak spots are always the connectors, where often you find dissimilar metals being used. Apparently crystals tend to grow between the contacts - plus the usual salt vapour corrosion. Maybe the radio experts could elaborate ? Colin| 6642|6614|2005-01-25 08:00:04|Bill Jaine|Re: Notebook computer|And use an external keyboard, you have to watch the heat build up in the laptop. Bill Port Hope. Canada A cheap alternative would be to hunt down a suitable size plastic bag (preferably one with a zipper) and run the laptop from within one of those - you'll need to do some crafty taping around the leads. Alternatively, just keep the laptop in a sealed bag when not in use. -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.7.3 - Release Date: 24/01/2005 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.7.3 - Release Date: 24/01/2005 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]| 6643|6589|2005-01-25 08:01:43|Gerd|Re: Bilge keel vs. twin keels|Ben, that's the 36' , and it's really just preliminaries on my site, nothing ready to post yet, but working hard on it ;-) So far I am quite happy, it's true that the bigger the boat, the more freedom you have to work on looks & style. On smaller projects it gets a lot more difficult to find working compromises. With my 31' construction stuck in the winter mud, design work is all I can do right now. The 26 is also shaping up, will look differently again but along the same idea: modern hull with classical topsides, lateral daggerboards, gaff cutter. I have a feeling though that that will only pass in alloy... for a fixed keel&ballast that would go, but steel AND all-inside ballast might just turn out prohibitively heavy for a 26 footer unless I want do design un veau ou un fer a repasser...;-) What are YOU designing at the moment ???! ;-) keep the good work up Gerd --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III" wrote: > > Hi Gerd , I saw your pretty 26' preliminaries , be a good fellah > and post some of your fine drawings in here . > Ben > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Gerd" > wrote: > > > > Hi Milan - interesting link, did't know that one. You should have > a > > look at J P Brouns site as well: http://perso.wanadoo.fr/jean- > > pierre.brouns/ > > VERY nice designs there!! > > Gerd > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "dreemer1962" > > wrote: > > > > > > Performance oriented twin keels: > > > > > > http://www.lerouge-yachts.com/mono_TKS.htm > > > > > > Milan | 6644|6644|2005-01-25 08:13:11|Gerd|origami ply??|Hi - anybody has any opinion on building smaller boats from the same type of pattern in plywood? Imagine you would want to do a relatively light 26 footer, steel too heavy and alloy too frightening for many people... origami is close enough to ply stitch & glue construction really, and for smaller boats (24 to 28 or so) ply might be an alternative to alloy. Without starting a Ply versus metal discussion here, the question is really: does it make sense for a construction point of view? Can you see any problems? At the chine-ends... would it break and tear up, and would that be a problem if this is then properly taken in the epoxy glass fillet? Could ply be bend around the sharper curve of the transom, and would we get different compound curves? I have built several ply dinghies, the last one a Murray Isles designed sharpie 5.5 m long. we set up the frames upside down in the usual way, and then planked it with pre-cut panels, but after having handled the origami steel-sheets so easily I wondered if that might not have worked just as well. Any input appreciated ;-)| 6645|6614|2005-01-25 10:24:01|Gary|Re: Notebook computer|Apparently, there is an ariticle in a sailing mag explaining the notebook on board issue in detail. I heard this from a friend but have been unable to locate the mag. If anyone has come across this article perhaps you could inform the group. Thanks... Gary| 6646|6644|2005-01-25 14:19:32|Puck III|Re: origami ply??|Hi Gerd ,I'l start answering this post first cause I am preparing a well argumented respons for the previous 26' post :-) Sure the compounded folding or origami method can be applied in the same way for ply , Grp or a composite even with sheet metal and with the same or more ease . See the Swail 1 & 2 file in Seabull3 ( you just have to ad a cone for the bowsection and the chine in the afthquarter ) and you will end up with a roundbidge in origami , wish can also be obtained in the same way with steel and even thick aluminum . I can cut 12 m x 3 m . On order Bruynzeel delivers extra long Ply. See the mastersection and the composite sample in the 5 pages " Schwertomane " Folder in files in the Seabull3 repository Group where I posted those pages sory in German ( for all translations ask Gerd !!!!! :-) especialy for you. For GRP see the KISS method from Derek Kelsall I posted a pic-file " roofcut " to see a composite with sheet metal , foam and ply ( see pics of the finished product : http://tinyurl.com/62fmo : my mobile office , sold afther 100000km of loyal service :-) For now I use transparant plastic sheets for folding up modeling , easy to draw on and with enough material memo to give some strenght resisting ( same as with ply :-) That's all for now , more if you want it. Old Ben --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Gerd" wrote: > > Hi - anybody has any opinion on building smaller boats from the same > type of pattern in plywood? Imagine you would want to do a relatively > light 26 footer, steel too heavy and alloy too frightening for many > people... > > origami is close enough to ply stitch & glue construction really, and > for smaller boats (24 to 28 or so) ply might be an alternative to > alloy. > Without starting a Ply versus metal discussion here, the question is > really: does it make sense for a construction point of view? Can you > see any problems? > At the chine-ends... would it break and tear up, and would that be a > problem if this is then properly taken in the epoxy glass fillet? > Could ply be bend around the sharper curve of the transom, and would > we get different compound curves? > > I have built several ply dinghies, the last one a Murray Isles > designed sharpie 5.5 m long. we set up the frames upside down in the > usual way, and then planked it with pre-cut panels, but after having > handled the origami steel-sheets so easily I wondered if that might > not have worked just as well. > > Any input appreciated ;-) | 6647|6614|2005-01-25 14:58:04|Paul J. Thompson|Re: Notebook computer|f it is a Pentium 3 or 4 laptop, you will soon have a very well cooked laptop! As I have said in an earlier post, my laptop has lasted 7 years years without doing anything special. Just look after it properly and don't spill water on it. Paul >A cheap alternative would be to hunt down a suitable size plastic bag >(preferably one with a zipper) and run the laptop from within one of >those - you'll need to do some crafty taping around the leads. >Alternatively, just keep the laptop in a sealed bag when not in use. > >The clever bit is to use a sachet (I like to use transparent 35mm >film cans) full of self-indicating silica gel - that way you know >your precious bits are in bone dry conditions. At one time you could >only get pink/blue gel, but other colours are now available (due to >the different chemicals employed - not as a fashion effect !). When >the colour changes, you just heat-up the gel in a stove to remove the >moisture. You can re-use the stuff many times. >Tip: use a larger pack in a sealed drum/box to keep your tools from >rusting. > > > | 6648|6589|2005-01-25 21:52:47|Puck III|Re: Bilge keel vs. twin keels|Hi Gerd,I was just trying to have you post your 26' prelim in here , cause I am sooo curious . Old habits die hard , so for now I am assembling all the ingredients to prepare a Michelin *** meal ; you would not expect less I hope . A real fast trailerable offshore cruiser , usable for gunckholing the swatchways ( 40 cm or less draft ). A first frameless thick aluminum origami :-) At noon I had a long talk with the Schwertomane :-) we meet next week . He talks about 40 and I would be happy with 50 manhours to assemble a precut hull . I'l use all the tricks in the trade to make " la barquette " totaly selfrighting ( mast down 180° and back up in flat water ) and pass the CEE stability test for offshore. I sure will need a real watertight door , I hope you like the pics I posted . So here we go for a stout real selfsufficient little ship with real comfort and headroom to spare for the tall Germans :-) The hardest work will be the paperwork for the CEE offshore certification and turning my model into an accurate origami design ( I am a Virgin in that field :-) I realy envy Greg Elliot's origami design program and I did not purchased Touch 3D for now . Why not ask your website readers to answer an info poll ? May be the Webmaster is willing to do the same in here ? Please say yes if he says yes , I can ask to post the same poll in other groups ; with the same agreed on questionaire we all may learn something about what people realy like and if there is an interest for such a boat ,cause I just saw the moulds for the UK build Smuggler are for sale soo....?? Any further advise for an origami analphabet ? Old Ben --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Gerd" wrote: > > Ben, that's the 36' , and it's really just preliminaries on my site, > nothing ready to post yet, but working hard on it ;-) So far I am > quite happy, it's true that the bigger the boat, the more freedom you > have to work on looks & style. On smaller projects it gets a lot more > difficult to find working compromises. > > With my 31' construction stuck in the winter mud, design work is all > I can do right now. The 26 is also shaping up, will look differently > again but along the same idea: modern hull with classical topsides, > lateral daggerboards, gaff cutter. I have a feeling though that that > will only pass in alloy... for a fixed keel&ballast that would go, > but steel AND all-inside ballast might just turn out prohibitively > heavy for a 26 footer unless I want do design un veau ou un fer a > repasser...;-) > > What are YOU designing at the moment ???! ;-) > > keep the good work up > Gerd > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III" wrote: > > > > Hi Gerd , I saw your pretty 26' preliminaries , be a good fellah > > and post some of your fine drawings in here . > > Ben > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Gerd" > > wrote: > > > > > > Hi Milan - interesting link, did't know that one. You should have > > a > > > look at J P Brouns site as well: http://perso.wanadoo.fr/jean- > > > pierre.brouns/ > > > VERY nice designs there!! > > > Gerd > > > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "dreemer1962" > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Performance oriented twin keels: > > > > > > > > http://www.lerouge-yachts.com/mono_TKS.htm > > > > > > > > Milan | 6649|6649|2005-01-25 22:03:17|Puck III|New Sailtype Pics|some fine pics for those interested http://www.dcss.org/AAPT/AAPT.html & http://www.kiteship.com enjoy Old Ben| 6650|6608|2005-01-25 22:13:11|servo_bot|Re: Questions about the 26 footer|Hey Ben, Just back from the hospital with my new baby girl. Operation "Convince My Wife To Go Cruising for a Year in Three Years" offcially begins today. I know my little girl will be obsessed with sailboats, just like her daddy. I kind of envision launching from the town where I grew up, Wilmington, NC, and making my way around the warm parts of the North Atlantic. This Saturday I start learning how to weld, but I will certainly be distracted by my beautiful new daughter. Andy --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III" wrote: > > Hi Andy, see the 26'BS in folder Black Hull in Photos too , > Tell us more about your long term cruise project . > From where to where ? via via ? Alaska ? the Tropics ? > Small boat , small worries ;-) > All you realy need is a sound boat that takes care of you and > your family instead of you having to take care of the boat . > The price for a pretty well finished boat with some real confort > will be exactly the same as for a dog , just some more time and > attention to finish her off well , so that you will be welcome > guests wherever you arrive ; be it amongst fisherman in > Tarpon Springs or in the Yacht club in Grand Bay Mauritius :-) > Good insulation and ventilation is a must ; for all the rest we > wait for your wishlist or designgoal . > For now I have only one comment : you should compare > waterlinelenght & displacement when looking at plans . > Some small boats make some great troublefree cruisers. > Old Ben > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "servo_bot" > wrote: > > > > Hey Alex, > > > > Thanks for the reply. I would LOVE to build a 31. For a family of > > three, it would be much more comfy. My daughter is due > Monday and I'm > > hoping that by the time she turns three, my family could > undertake a > > serious, long-term cruise. > > > > I guess I've been thinking to myself that 26 feet was the > "largest I > > could afford," as the maxim goes. > > > > After having compared wood composite and fiberglass one-off > building > > or buying and refitting, it seems that I can best get the boat I > want > > by building in steel, not paying for any professional labor. I'm > > pretty handy, but I've never welded before. > > > > The boat doesn't have to be a showpiece, just water tight, well > > insulated and provide minimalist comfort for three in port and > sea > > berths for two, under way. > > > > Hopefully I'm not delusional, but it sure seems that a > determined > > amateur with a welder can build a capable boat in steel, for > much > > cheaper than wood or glass. > > > > Andy > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Alex" > wrote: > > > > > > Andy, > > > > > > There is unfortunately a lack of photos of the 26 footer, > something > > I hope to rectify soon > > > (there is one not too far from me here on Vancouver Island). > There > > is one photo folder of > > > a 26 footer in the files entitled, "Dove III", the little red boat. > > This boat was built on > > > Vancouver Island and made a transit of the Northwest > Passage with > > three men on board a > > > few years ago. The design was modified to have > centreboard, and the > > pilot house was > > > made higher than the regular version, making it into more of > a > > motorsailer suitable to > > > navigating in the ice latitudes. I can't remember correctly, but > I > > believe they sailed right > > > from Vancouver to get up there, hence made a pretty > extensive > > offshore run up the coast, > > > through the Bering Strait, and around Alaska just to begin the > > transit, which is pretty > > > impressive a voyage in itself. I don't know of many 26 footers > > which have done the same > > > lately! > > > > > > My preference for a single-handing boat would be the 31 > footer, > > largely because I have > > > seen that Brent has had so much success with his for over > 18 years > > without feeling the > > > need to "up-grade". The 36 footer is in my mind an ideal 2 to > 3 > > person boat (or in my > > > case, 2 adults and 2 kids, 2 dogs and one cat). After that > comes > > the 40 footer, and the > > > interior space in one of those is pretty big, too big for what we > > need currently. There are > > > many small boats out there that are perfectlly capable > offshore in > > terms of safety. The > > > issue is more a case of load-carrying capacity for food, water > and > > equipment, rather than > > > seaworthiness. Perhaps by carrying freeze-dried food and > using a > > water-maker, you > > > could undertake long offshore passages in a 26 footer. > > > > > > Anyone on the list here have some experience with the 26 > footer to add? > > > > > > The welder we have been using for constructing our 36 footer > is the > > Lincoln 225 AC stick > > > welder, and it has worked fine for all welding applications. > Having > > learned on it, I can't > > > see the need for anything more expensive, especially for a > one-off > > project like this. > > > > > > Alex > > > > > > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "servo_bot" > wrote: > > > > > > > > Howdy folks, > > > > > > > > I'll warn you: I'm a a noob, but I've scanned the archives, > hoping > > > > that I won't repeat too many questions. > > > > > > > > First, I'm talking a stick welding course, starting next > weekend, at > > > > my local community college. I plan to practice a great deal > for some > > > > time before attempting to build ANYTHING. But, and please > pardon my > > > > ignorance, is the SMAW process alone sufficient to > construct a 26 > > > > footer in steel? > > > > > > > > Provided that the answer is yes, would the AC/DC capable > version of > > > > Lincoln Electric's ubiquitous 225 machine be capable of > welding the > > > > plate in the 26 footer? > > > > > > > > Second, does anyone have interior sketches or photos > from a 26 footer? > > > > I couln't find any in the files or photos sections. What's the > > > > headroom like in one. I wouldn't expect full headroom in > any 26 footer > > > > ... just curious. > > > > > > > > Finally, what are the capabilities of the 26 footer. Is it > considered > > > > offshore capable or a coastal cruiser? > > > > > > > > Thanks! > > > > > > > > Andy | 6651|6633|2005-01-25 22:14:50|servo_bot|Re: about the 26'|Hi Evan, Did the owner of the 26 sail from the US or Canada to Australia? That would be quite an impressive journey. And, of course, the Dove III story is amazing. Andy --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "evanmoonjunk" wrote: > > I have built one 26',which the owner at the time sailed to > Australia and then sold it there. The other "26'"(nothwest passage > with 3 guys aboard) mentioned is actually one of three 28' that I > built that were based on the 26' but stretched to 28' plus a wider > beam, which was around 9'....Evan | 6652|6608|2005-01-25 22:57:57|Puck III|Re: Questions about the 26 footer|Hi Andy , congratulations for your enlarged family ,great news. Sailing is a great family occupation and you never know when you start young.......a champion sailor girl in the making . What a small world , I past NC with Puck see the link : Lien préféré meaning préfered link in my Yahoo profile. I visited the Biltmore house and the Smokey Mountains with Puck on a trailor from Anapolis to Tarpon Springs Fl You have beautiful cedarwood in your airea , I sure would know what to use for my furniture :-) Learning how to weld is a great idea for anyone , cause it comes in handy before you know . One advise to convince the wife : go slowly and gentle and take her on a vacation , weekends in fine weather only so sailing stays fun and before you know she probably love it to be on the move with her family , in real cosy confort cause woman realy need that to be happy . I envy your youth and love your enthousiasm. Old Ben --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "servo_bot" wrote: > > Hey Ben, > > Just back from the hospital with my new baby girl. Operation "Convince > My Wife To Go Cruising for a Year in Three Years" offcially begins > today. I know my little girl will be obsessed with sailboats, just > like her daddy. > > I kind of envision launching from the town where I grew up, > Wilmington, NC, and making my way around the warm parts of the North > Atlantic. > > This Saturday I start learning how to weld, but I will certainly be > distracted by my beautiful new daughter. > > Andy > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III" wrote: > > > > Hi Andy, see the 26'BS in folder Black Hull in Photos too , > > Tell us more about your long term cruise project . > > From where to where ? via via ? Alaska ? the Tropics ? > > Small boat , small worries ;-) > > All you realy need is a sound boat that takes care of you and > > your family instead of you having to take care of the boat . > > The price for a pretty well finished boat with some real confort > > will be exactly the same as for a dog , just some more time and > > attention to finish her off well , so that you will be welcome > > guests wherever you arrive ; be it amongst fisherman in > > Tarpon Springs or in the Yacht club in Grand Bay Mauritius :-) > > Good insulation and ventilation is a must ; for all the rest we > > wait for your wishlist or designgoal . > > For now I have only one comment : you should compare > > waterlinelenght & displacement when looking at plans . > > Some small boats make some great troublefree cruisers. > > Old Ben > > > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "servo_bot" > > wrote: > > > > > > Hey Alex, > > > > > > Thanks for the reply. I would LOVE to build a 31. For a family of > > > three, it would be much more comfy. My daughter is due > > Monday and I'm > > > hoping that by the time she turns three, my family could > > undertake a > > > serious, long-term cruise. > > > > > > I guess I've been thinking to myself that 26 feet was the > > "largest I > > > could afford," as the maxim goes. > > > > > > After having compared wood composite and fiberglass one-off > > building > > > or buying and refitting, it seems that I can best get the boat I > > want > > > by building in steel, not paying for any professional labor. I'm > > > pretty handy, but I've never welded before. > > > > > > The boat doesn't have to be a showpiece, just water tight, well > > > insulated and provide minimalist comfort for three in port and > > sea > > > berths for two, under way. > > > > > > Hopefully I'm not delusional, but it sure seems that a > > determined > > > amateur with a welder can build a capable boat in steel, for > > much > > > cheaper than wood or glass. > > > > > > Andy > > > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Alex" > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Andy, > > > > > > > > There is unfortunately a lack of photos of the 26 footer, > > something > > > I hope to rectify soon > > > > (there is one not too far from me here on Vancouver Island). > > There > > > is one photo folder of > > > > a 26 footer in the files entitled, "Dove III", the little red boat. > > > This boat was built on > > > > Vancouver Island and made a transit of the Northwest > > Passage with > > > three men on board a > > > > few years ago. The design was modified to have > > centreboard, and the > > > pilot house was > > > > made higher than the regular version, making it into more of > > a > > > motorsailer suitable to > > > > navigating in the ice latitudes. I can't remember correctly, but > > I > > > believe they sailed right > > > > from Vancouver to get up there, hence made a pretty > > extensive > > > offshore run up the coast, > > > > through the Bering Strait, and around Alaska just to begin the > > > transit, which is pretty > > > > impressive a voyage in itself. I don't know of many 26 footers > > > which have done the same > > > > lately! > > > > > > > > My preference for a single-handing boat would be the 31 > > footer, > > > largely because I have > > > > seen that Brent has had so much success with his for over > > 18 years > > > without feeling the > > > > need to "up-grade". The 36 footer is in my mind an ideal 2 to > > 3 > > > person boat (or in my > > > > case, 2 adults and 2 kids, 2 dogs and one cat). After that > > comes > > > the 40 footer, and the > > > > interior space in one of those is pretty big, too big for what we > > > need currently. There are > > > > many small boats out there that are perfectlly capable > > offshore in > > > terms of safety. The > > > > issue is more a case of load-carrying capacity for food, water > > and > > > equipment, rather than > > > > seaworthiness. Perhaps by carrying freeze-dried food and > > using a > > > water-maker, you > > > > could undertake long offshore passages in a 26 footer. > > > > > > > > Anyone on the list here have some experience with the 26 > > footer to add? > > > > > > > > The welder we have been using for constructing our 36 footer > > is the > > > Lincoln 225 AC stick > > > > welder, and it has worked fine for all welding applications. > > Having > > > learned on it, I can't > > > > see the need for anything more expensive, especially for a > > one-off > > > project like this. > > > > > > > > Alex > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "servo_bot" > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Howdy folks, > > > > > > > > > > I'll warn you: I'm a a noob, but I've scanned the archives, > > hoping > > > > > that I won't repeat too many questions. > > > > > > > > > > First, I'm talking a stick welding course, starting next > > weekend, at > > > > > my local community college. I plan to practice a great deal > > for some > > > > > time before attempting to build ANYTHING. But, and please > > pardon my > > > > > ignorance, is the SMAW process alone sufficient to > > construct a 26 > > > > > footer in steel? > > > > > > > > > > Provided that the answer is yes, would the AC/DC capable > > version of > > > > > Lincoln Electric's ubiquitous 225 machine be capable of > > welding the > > > > > plate in the 26 footer? > > > > > > > > > > Second, does anyone have interior sketches or photos > > from a 26 footer? > > > > > I couln't find any in the files or photos sections. What's the > > > > > headroom like in one. I wouldn't expect full headroom in > > any 26 footer > > > > > ... just curious. > > > > > > > > > > Finally, what are the capabilities of the 26 footer. Is it > > considered > > > > > offshore capable or a coastal cruiser? > > > > > > > > > > Thanks! > > > > > > > > > > Andy | 6653|6614|2005-01-26 00:04:25|gschnell|Re: Notebook computer|The electronics uses what is known as conformal coatings. They are applied to most boards to reduce corrosion. Electronics for the marine industry uses the same idea but thicker coatings and generally including the connectors. Gord Alex Christie wrote: > Aren't there some plastic cases (Pelican brand?) made just for > notebooks, which will keep your notebook dry? > > Keep in mind that a well insulated steel boat with the woodstove or > any > other heat source going has a very low humidity level compared to an > uninsulated glass boat (which is more like living in a plastic bag). > A > laptop sitting down below on your chart table, well out of the > elements, would probably be as well off as it would be sitting in a > house, save for a touch of salt in the general atmosphere (so yes, > don't bring your most expensive laptop). A friend once asked me to > pull > out a chart out from behind an opening panel to show me how dry it was > > on his boat; the chart was bone dry, and it had been resting up > against the foam which was sprayed on the hull. > > I would say with some confidence that a laptop would last longer than > you'd think onboard one of these boats. > > Here's a question for computer techs out there: I noticed that the > circuit boards on my home computer are kind of glossy like there is a > plastic coating on them. Is there something sprayed on to them, and > if > so would the same coating be on a laptop's boards thereby providing > some protection against corrosion? > > Alex > > > On 24-Jan-05, at 2:04 AM, ON4DMT wrote: > > > > > Hi Gary, > > > > > > I'm new to the group and just interested in boatbuilding. > > Saw your message on notebook computers: you will probably want to > know > > that notebooks aren't designed for humid and salt water conditions. > > I've heard they last only a year, maybe two if they remain > > continuously on board a ship. That said, I wouldn't hesitate to > bring > > an older/cheaper model on board and hook it up to GSP/radar/HF > > Transceiver. > > There ARE notebooks that are specifically designed for boat > conditions > > (water tight and not corroding so fast), but I have no idea what > these > > would cost. > > > > Take care, > > > > Axel > > (PC Engineer) > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Gary > > To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Monday, January 24, 2005 2:40 AM > > Subject: [origamiboats] Notebook computer > > > > > > > > Is anyone usuing a notebook computer as part or all of their nav > > system? Just wondering if mine (Dell recent model) is worth > > bringing aboard or selling off. Is it possible to combine some > > other components to use the notebook as complete unit i.e., gps, > > chart plotter & radar. > > > > Thanks... Gary > > > > > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > ------- > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > a.. To visit your group on the web, go to: > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/ > > > > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > > Service. > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > --------------------------------------------------------------- > Yahoo! Groups Links > > * To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/ > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > Service. > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]| 6654|6654|2005-01-26 00:43:53|Alex|Ted's wing keels photo posted|Dear Group, I have posted the photos of Ted's keel with winglets, in the photo section in an album called "Ted's Wing Keel". Alex| 6655|6644|2005-01-26 00:45:23|mat_man22|Re: origami ply??|Hi Gerd You might like Flyaway that can be built in 20-30-40' sizes: http://www.common-sense-boats.com/flyaway.htm| 6656|22|2005-01-26 03:49:15|origamiboats@yahoogroups.com|New file uploaded to origamiboats |Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the origamiboats group. File : /SWAIL1.jpg Uploaded by : ben_azo Description : You can access this file at the URL: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/files/SWAIL1.jpg To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit: http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files Regards, ben_azo | 6657|22|2005-01-26 03:49:30|origamiboats@yahoogroups.com|New file uploaded to origamiboats |Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the origamiboats group. File : /SWAIL2.jpg Uploaded by : ben_azo Description : You can access this file at the URL: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/files/SWAIL2.jpg To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit: http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files Regards, ben_azo | 6658|6644|2005-01-26 03:59:52|Puck III|Re: origami ply??|Hi Gerd , on demand I posted SWAIL1&2 pics-files in Files. Dear Webmaster feel free to free the Filesspace when those pics take up to much space , cause I understand all to well those pics do not realy belong to the Topic of the Group , except for info , and most items can always be found in : http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Seabull3/ or Seabull or Seabull2 repositoryGroups Old Ben --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "mat_man22" wrote: > > Hi Gerd > > You might like Flyaway that can be built in 20-30-40' sizes: > > http://www.common-sense-boats.com/flyaway.htm | 6659|6633|2005-01-26 05:48:27|Suzanne Pentz and John Wyatt Coy|Re: about the 26'|Hello Evan, Congratulations! Babies are so wonderful, (at least until they become teenagers..) I don't know you well enough to knit your little one baby booties, so will offer my opinion on being confined in a small space with one-if you have two kids- they will keep each other company, learn so much more together, & if you have a safe space cordoned off below, you might get a few moments peace on deck occasionally. I remember my grandmother talking about her mother putting the youngest in a nail keg to watch things without being underfoot. You might want to keep an eye out for a nail keg : ) Oh, this is big- highly recommend you try to go for a slightly larger boat. My husband and I bought a pickup truck when our first son was a baby, before we knew it we had another one and another... well, the pickup was quickly just too small. 4 more feet of length could easily provide a couple of Kid berths for quite a few years. Just my opinions, hope everything goes well for you all and that you manage to get some sleep! Nicole| 6660|6614|2005-01-26 06:14:00|sae140|Re: Notebook computer|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Paul J. Thompson" wrote: > > > f it is a Pentium 3 or 4 laptop, you will soon have a very well cooked > laptop! For sure - I wasn't thinking of anything so advanced being used on a boat - my mistake. Heed the warning folks .... Colin [486 laptop/ 350Mhz socket 7 desktop/ both running WIN95 !!]| 6661|6644|2005-01-26 06:40:54|Gerd|Re: origami ply??|Old Ben, thanks for hints and links - but it's not so much the boat- type I am looking for, but the more practical and handling aspects of what would happen to the material plywood if used in a Brent- Swain type pattern... ;-) Gerd| 6662|6589|2005-01-26 06:46:26|Gerd|Re: Bilge keel vs. twin keels|> A first frameless thick aluminum origami :-) let us know if you have something to see there ... Personally I am not much of a fan of the thick-skin-and-no-structure concepts a la meta, strongall etc. I have seen boats like that in France, they tend to get quite heavy really. I also would love to see how folding really thick material would work out - should be possible though. And if it works then of course construction time would be down to almost nothing compared to total hours until launch.| 6663|22|2005-01-26 06:50:55|Gerd|Swail|Thanks, that is a lovely little monster ;-) --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, origamiboats@yahoogroups.com wrote: > > > Hello, > > This email message is a notification to let you know that > a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the origamiboats > group. > > File : /SWAIL2.jpg > Uploaded by : ben_azo > Description : > > You can access this file at the URL: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/files/SWAIL2.jpg > > To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit: > http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files > > Regards, > > ben_azo | 6664|6644|2005-01-26 08:41:18|audeojude|Re: origami ply??|Hey Gerd, I have the plans for a 17 and a 21 ft ply gaff rig boat that is basically origami. no frames in construction as you build it it pulls together and self aligns.. go to http://stevproj.com/PocketYachts.html for the boats and then to http://stevproj.com/ProjectCam.html to see 60 as they build one photos. very neat boat... some interesting design concepts in it also. scott carle --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Gerd" wrote: > > Hi - anybody has any opinion on building smaller boats from the same > type of pattern in plywood? Imagine you would want to do a relatively > light 26 footer, steel too heavy and alloy too frightening for many > people... > > origami is close enough to ply stitch & glue construction really, and > for smaller boats (24 to 28 or so) ply might be an alternative to > alloy. > Without starting a Ply versus metal discussion here, the question is > really: does it make sense for a construction point of view? Can you > see any problems? > At the chine-ends... would it break and tear up, and would that be a > problem if this is then properly taken in the epoxy glass fillet? > Could ply be bend around the sharper curve of the transom, and would > we get different compound curves? > > I have built several ply dinghies, the last one a Murray Isles > designed sharpie 5.5 m long. we set up the frames upside down in the > usual way, and then planked it with pre-cut panels, but after having > handled the origami steel-sheets so easily I wondered if that might > not have worked just as well. > > Any input appreciated ;-) | 6666|6589|2005-01-26 11:16:29|dreemer1962|Re: Bilge keel vs. twin keels|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Gerd" wrote: Hi Gerd, Yes, I agree, Pierre Brouns draws nice boats, I like that functional, simple, rugged style, and profiles with long water lines. It seems that META built quite a few. However, I'm bit worried about unbalanced hull forms with extremely wide sterns. Never sailed such boats though, (well, with one exemption of one afternoon race on this http://www.maxfunboats.nl/boat.php?boat=7 very light racing boat). Do you heave experience with a type? I suppose that double rudders compensate for the part of steering problems with a bigger heel angles (one of the rudders stays in water unlike conventional single rudder witch can get out of water making a boat unsteerable), but I expect that tendency to change the course with each small change of the heel stays, making them difficult to keep on the straight line for the helmsman / windwane / autopilot - not good on passages. What do you think? Milan > Hi Milan - interesting link, did't know that one. You should have a > look at J P Brouns site as well: http://perso.wanadoo.fr/jean- > pierre.brouns/ > VERY nice designs there!! > Gerd > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "dreemer1962" > wrote: > > > > Performance oriented twin keels: > > > > http://www.lerouge-yachts.com/mono_TKS.htm > > > > Milan | 6667|6589|2005-01-26 11:19:10|dreemer1962|Re: Bilge keel vs. twin keels|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III" wrote: Hi Ben, nice boat, interesting support on the stern - do you heave more photos? Milan > Hi Milan , thanks for the link to the Gaia8 : > http://www.lerouge-yachts.com/gaia_80.htm > I hope you did not mis the File: JPBart22.jpg in Files > the BIMINI is a real flyer :-) > Old Ben > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "dreemer1962" > wrote: > > > > Performance oriented twin keels: > > > > http://www.lerouge-yachts.com/mono_TKS.htm > > > > Milan | 6669|6644|2005-01-26 12:45:17|dreemer1962|Re: origami ply??|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Gerd" wrote: Hi Gerd, From my very limited experience with stitch and glue - I built Fisher's Petite Breese rowing / sailing boat couple of years ago, I think it could work, but I expect advantages to be smaller then with a metal, with a size of the boat which you heave in mind. Scarfing would probably take quite some time. Hull shall heave to be from the thin ply to make bending possible. It means it should probably heave to be laminated from multiple layers, similar to cold molding. Maybe combination with a foam could work well, making possible to achieve desired shall thickens relatively quickly without to much work, for example 6mm ply outside (easy to bend in all curves which you need and 15 mm foam inside all covered with a few layers of glass cloth and epoxy on both sides, eliminating or at least minimizing internal supports. I wouldn't worry about strength of the joints, glassed over fillet is very strong. Well, on the second taught, that strength is maybe nothing to brag about on the metal boat building forum. The biggest problem or irritation source is that hull shall stays very floppy during the building. I think that some kind of building frame support is essential. It takes time to build it, but I don't think it can be done without it. Not only because of floppiness but also because of the sensitivity of the ply to dirt and scratching - you can't just drag it around as a steel plate. Milan > Hi - anybody has any opinion on building smaller boats from the same > type of pattern in plywood? Imagine you would want to do a relatively > light 26 footer, steel too heavy and alloy too frightening for many > people... > > origami is close enough to ply stitch & glue construction really, and > for smaller boats (24 to 28 or so) ply might be an alternative to > alloy. > Without starting a Ply versus metal discussion here, the question is > really: does it make sense for a construction point of view? Can you > see any problems? > At the chine-ends... would it break and tear up, and would that be a > problem if this is then properly taken in the epoxy glass fillet? > Could ply be bend around the sharper curve of the transom, and would > we get different compound curves? > > I have built several ply dinghies, the last one a Murray Isles > designed sharpie 5.5 m long. we set up the frames upside down in the > usual way, and then planked it with pre-cut panels, but after having > handled the origami steel-sheets so easily I wondered if that might > not have worked just as well. > > Any input appreciated ;-) | 6670|6644|2005-01-26 13:04:05|Gerd|Re: origami ply??|Thanks Scott ;-) I know the Weekender, cute little thing that although the looks are maybe a bit on the quaint side. Still, as I said, what I am really after are any possible experiences on using ply in our kind of patterns. Gerd --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "audeojude" wrote: > > Hey Gerd, > > I have the plans for a 17 and a 21 ft ply gaff rig boat that is > basically origami. no frames in construction as you build it it pulls > together and self aligns.. go to > http://stevproj.com/PocketYachts.html for the boats and then to > http://stevproj.com/ProjectCam.html to see 60 as they build one photos. > > very neat boat... some interesting design concepts in it also. > > scott carle > | 6671|6671|2005-01-26 13:35:43|Alex|furring strips installation|Dear Group, I have posted some more photos in the photo album "Austin Hull", showing the installation of wooden furring strips before foaming interior. Does anyone else have experience with the installation of these strips, and what techniques did you use? Alex| 6672|6589|2005-01-26 14:00:45|Gerd|Re: Bilge keel vs. twin keels|Milan - I guess it's a quetion of choice. Actually I have the feeling that over the past years there have been more and more designs of what in cars we now call crossover-concepts: designs that will combine tradition with modern shapes or materials, or racing concepts from open formulas like the 6.50 or the 60 with cruising programs etc. Or look at the first ULDBs from something like 20 years ago Some (not all) of Brouns designs go pretty far, but then they would be for the fun&high-performance cruiser. Should a LOT of fun to cross the oceans with that ;-) As for directional stability, obviously there must be some compromises and tradeoffs between responsiveness, perfomance and straight-like-on-rails... but the often cited instability of the wide flat sterns is overestimated, not only my own experience with some amateur boats of friends many years ago tells me diferent but just look at open occean racing - they run on autopilot all the time in very extreme conditions and they DO count with the effort it takes to control the boat, because electricity is scarce and anyway you can't win if you don't make it home ;-) Twin rudders: I hav sailed with that and the positive control is amazing. it's a combination of different things: - when the boat heels, a single ruder is no longer vertical and wil actually push the transom up or down - this is a horrible waste of effort. The lee rudder will then work nicely vertical. - when heeled the single rudder will reduce it's draft and projected surface, just like the keel, thus significantly loose it's role in the lateral plan Actually, I can't see anything that speaks against twin rudders, other than an increase in wetted surface (not that much, as they are smaller...) and the fact that it's more work and possibly more expensive to build. right, some controversial issues here... always good to throw a pebble in the pond when it gets too sleepy around here ;-) Gerd The Yago project at http://www.justmueller.com/boats/ --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "dreemer1962" wrote: > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Gerd" wrote: > > > Hi Gerd, > > Yes, I agree, Pierre Brouns draws nice boats, I like that functional, > simple, rugged style, and profiles with long water lines. It seems > that META built quite a few. However, I'm bit worried about > unbalanced hull forms with extremely wide sterns. Never sailed such > boats though, (well, with one exemption of one afternoon race on this > http://www.maxfunboats.nl/boat.php?boat=7 very light racing boat). > > Do you heave experience with a type? I suppose that double rudders > compensate for the part of steering problems with a bigger heel > angles (one of the rudders stays in water unlike conventional single > rudder witch can get out of water making a boat unsteerable), but I > expect that tendency to change the course with each small change of > the heel stays, making them difficult to keep on the straight line > for the helmsman / windwane / autopilot - not good on passages. What > do you think? > > Milan > > > Hi Milan - interesting link, did't know that one. You should have a > > look at J P Brouns site as well: http://perso.wanadoo.fr/jean- > > pierre.brouns/ > > VERY nice designs there!! > > Gerd > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "dreemer1962" > > wrote: > > > > > > Performance oriented twin keels: > > > > > > http://www.lerouge-yachts.com/mono_TKS.htm > > > > > > Milan | 6673|6644|2005-01-26 14:13:11|Gerd|Re: origami ply??|> ...example 6mm ply outside (easy to bend in all curves which you need > and 15 mm foam inside all covered with a few layers of glass cloth > and epoxy on both sides, eliminating or at least minimizing internal supports. GREAT, You've got something there, Milan... ;-) that might just be it... - fold and stitch thinnish ply, just stiff enough to give nice shape - add precut bulkhead and attach to shell then add deck build up all epoxy/glass fillets, - add all round foam layer inside, cut to size in situ - glass & epoxy over - or.. - add inner ply layer (find a way to press onto foam?) which will act as nice lining ? - filet inner glass (or ply) to bulkheads all origami advantages of frameless assembly, no jig, build upside down but accessible to people scared of metal construction... Should be possible to do something VERY strong like that, but calcs are a bit over my head for the moment. Will follow that up. How much for royalties?? ;-) Also: I think I might have mentioned that here already, but I knew a guy who built a boat from a sandwich made out of thin alloy, foam thin alloy... he had recovered highway-overhead panels.. "Paris turn left, 500 meters.." ;-) don't know what became of it though ;-) Gerd The Yago Project at http://www.justmueller.com/boats/| 6674|6614|2005-01-26 14:26:32|Paul J. Thompson|Re: Notebook computer|Hi Old Ben, Thanks for the nice comments and good wishes. My Inmarsat C set up is old, a 1998 Trimble Galaxy unit which was given to me by Trimble while I was in the USA (1997-2000). I can down load at about the same speed as a 14K modem. Charges on Inmarsat C are not time based but character based. Depending on who your LES is, it varies between 0.5 to 1 cent per character. That is expensive and I am currently trying to find a LES to sponsored me for my coming circumnavigation. Because it is so expensive, I do not use it for down loading the GRIP files for Maxsea but use a Pactor III modem and Sailmail. I do not no about Inmarsat Mini-M ($8000.00) except that it costs about twice the price of Inmarsat C ($4000.00) and coverage is not completely global (holes, mostly in the Arctic and Antarctic/Southern Ocean) but since I cannot use the phone it is not something that I need. If you have an interest in Inmarsat C, have a look at the Fleet 33 services (Google there are thousands of links). Regards, Paul Puck III wrote: >Hi Paul , I am realy interested how you receive your Grip-file >needed for the MaxSea via e-mail via the Inmarsat . >I just had a look at the Inmarsat website and I would love to >know what you are using , with a price-idea for the hardware >( the Mini-M looks interesting ) but also how long it takes you >to receive the Grip-file and what's the cost per minute . > >By the way : You have a GREAT Website , I started using a >bodyworn personal amplifier ( I use my GSM handfree earpeace >for it ), so I will study the Links on your site with great >attention . >Tail winds is all I wish for you and your lovely boat. >Si si , gusto mucho La Chica tambien :-) >Old Ben > > > > | 6675|6589|2005-01-26 14:52:46|Puck III|Bilge keel vs. twin keels - frameless Alu - WELDING|Hi Gerd , who the hell want's a " slow fer à repasser " sure not me cause I was talking speed :-) please check some figures and facts ! I posted the Randonneur measurements in photos for you where you also find the frameless hull pic . weight : 15OO kg for that boat , heavy ? I dont think so :-) what displacement are you projecting for your 26' design ? please let me know . where did I even mentioned Strongal or Meta ? ? when I say frameless thick alu I mean just thick enough :-) alu kit boats are sold by the kg or lbs and who wants to pay for a useless overkill ?? sure not me I also wonder if you can propose anything shorter in building time than the 50 projected manhours for the hull ? I can weld but would never dream of not hiring a real PRO welder , its an art and science that thake some experience and that hired Pro welder is worth every peny he earns . Dont forget , you depend on him for your life in a boat . He sure is gone love welding that thicker Alu cause he can put the necessary current in that work ; where as with thin alu you must know : to much current and it melts & not enough and you get a collage without the needed fusion :-) Also I like to get on with any project and would hate spending to much time in a garden instead of going sailing . Old Ben --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Gerd" wrote: > > > > A first frameless thick aluminum origami :-) > let us know if you have something to see there ... > Personally I am not much of a fan of the thick-skin-and-no-structure > concepts a la meta, strongall etc. I have seen boats like that in > France, they tend to get quite heavy really. > I also would love to see how folding really thick material would > work out - should be possible though. And if it works then of course > construction time would be down to almost nothing compared to total > hours until launch. | 6676|6589|2005-01-26 14:57:42|Puck III|Re: Bilge keel vs. twin keels|Hi Milan , especialy for you see Photo Minispeed in Photos Full control at 18 knots but no sleep all night :-) Old Ben --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "dreemer1962" wrote: > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III" wrote: > > Hi Ben, nice boat, interesting support on the stern - do you heave > more photos? > > > Milan > > > > Hi Milan , thanks for the link to the Gaia8 : > > http://www.lerouge-yachts.com/gaia_80.htm > > I hope you did not mis the File: JPBart22.jpg in Files > > the BIMINI is a real flyer :-) > > Old Ben > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "dreemer1962" > > wrote: > > > > > > Performance oriented twin keels: > > > > > > http://www.lerouge-yachts.com/mono_TKS.htm > > > > > > Milan | 6677|6589|2005-01-26 16:10:20|Gerd|Re: Bilge keel vs. twin keels - frameless Alu - WELDING|hold your horses, Old Ben ;-) it's just rants for the moment... So: what is thick enough then? Last time I looked, structurally an assembly skin and Stringer/frames was supposed to turn out lighter than unsupported, thicker skin.. for the same resistance that is. Depens on what sort of resistance your looking for of course. Another way is to use the bulkheads and furniture elements for structure. Plus, of course, the stiffness due to tighter bends on smaller hulls.. yes, should work of course. Any numbers yet? Gerd --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III" wrote: > > Hi Gerd , who the hell want's a " slow fer à repasser " sure not > me cause I was talking speed :-) please check some figures > and facts ! I posted the Randonneur measurements in photos > for you where you also find the frameless hull pic . > weight : 15OO kg for that boat , heavy ? I dont think so :-) > what displacement are you projecting for your 26' design ? > please let me know . > where did I even mentioned Strongal or Meta ? ? > when I say frameless thick alu I mean just thick enough :-) > alu kit boats are sold by the kg or lbs and who wants to pay > for a useless overkill ?? sure not me > I also wonder if you can propose anything shorter in > building time than the 50 projected manhours for the hull ? > I can weld but would never dream of not hiring a real PRO > welder , its an art and science that thake some experience > and that hired Pro welder is worth every peny he earns . > Dont forget , you depend on him for your life in a boat . > He sure is gone love welding that thicker Alu cause he can > put the necessary current in that work ; where as with thin > alu you must know : to much current and it melts & not > enough and you get a collage without the needed fusion :-) > Also I like to get on with any project and would hate spending > to much time in a garden instead of going sailing . > Old Ben > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Gerd" > wrote: > > > > > > > A first frameless thick aluminum origami :-) > > let us know if you have something to see there ... > > Personally I am not much of a fan of the > thick-skin-and-no-structure > > concepts a la meta, strongall etc. I have seen boats like that in > > France, they tend to get quite heavy really. > > I also would love to see how folding really thick material would > > work out - should be possible though. And if it works then of > course > > construction time would be down to almost nothing compared > to total > > hours until launch. | 6678|6671|2005-01-26 17:59:57|edward_stoneuk|Re: furring strips installation|Alex, I tried a test piece using a polyurethane adhesive to stick bits of pallets to ZINGA primed steel plate. The pieces had to be clamped together because the polyurethane adhesive foams as it sets. The foam was pushed out through nail holes. I then left it in a bucket of water for a couple of months. I clamped the wood in the vice and hit the plate to break the join in shear. One piece of wood came off. The other piece started to split rather then break the adhesive bond. Why the difference? I don't know. I shall have to do some more tests. Regards, Ted| 6679|6644|2005-01-26 22:00:53|Puck III|Re: origami ply??|Hi Gerd , sure an origami Plyboat can be build . a wooden , grp , steel or aluminum box stays a box . sory to say a boat is an airbuble and they come in different shapes and forms ;-) the buble needs a wall thin or thick letts call it the buble's wall or mesh to use CAD 3D terms. Again and especialy for you , cause you'r hard to convince I posted a 4 & 2 half colour pages in the Folder " A 10 m Plyboat Test " in the Files in : http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Seabull3/ sory again a German test , about a pretty wooden box with Sideboards wich you seems to like , I do too :-) Aint that easy to make a box look good , but when you succeed and have a fine product to show , adapted to the North European taller people , the press is only to happy to show it and that that bring sales for the yards building such boats and for the offices of the designers of those boats . I think its in the interest off all , especialy the customers that need some protection in one form or another that everybody does what he is good in , be it the woodworker the welder , the designer or architect , even the salesman and retailer , cause they all are the people that keep boatbuilding alive and interesting ; dont you think so?? I am a rendering & origami programs analphabet , but I am learning every day . I know for sure that there is a navalarchitect with a good international reputation that has the technical knowledge to design what you are thinking off , on the other hand a question remains : are you willing to pay for his expertise while at the same time offering the plans of your YAGO for free ?? and plans are made to build boats with not just to pass the wintertimes :-) Cause money talks and bullshit walks , now you know right away why I named the repository Groups Seabull :-) I hope you like the test , more comments afther your respons :-) I see a donkey out of my window in the neighbour's garden, at my age its the only horse ( hehe Saint Nicolas 's horse ) that I consider safe mounting for my old bones . The neighbour tells me he is very stubborn and can be a real pain in the ass , some people tell the same about me:-) Old Ben --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Gerd" wrote: > > > > ...example 6mm ply outside (easy to bend in all curves which you > need > > and 15 mm foam inside all covered with a few layers of glass cloth > > and epoxy on both sides, eliminating or at least minimizing > internal supports. > > GREAT, You've got something there, Milan... ;-) that might just be > it... > - fold and stitch thinnish ply, just stiff enough to give nice shape > - add precut bulkhead and attach to shell then add deck > build up all epoxy/glass fillets, > - add all round foam layer inside, cut to size in situ > - glass & epoxy over - or.. > - add inner ply layer (find a way to press onto foam?) which will > act as nice lining ? > - filet inner glass (or ply) to bulkheads > > all origami advantages of frameless assembly, no jig, build upside > down but accessible to people scared of metal construction... > > Should be possible to do something VERY strong like that, but calcs > are a bit over my head for the moment. Will follow that up. How much > for royalties?? ;-) > > Also: I think I might have mentioned that here already, but I knew a > guy who built a boat from a sandwich made out of thin alloy, foam > thin alloy... he had recovered highway-overhead panels.. "Paris turn > left, 500 meters.." ;-) don't know what became of it though ;-) > > Gerd > > > The Yago Project at http://www.justmueller.com/boats/ | 6680|6589|2005-01-27 04:15:08|Puck III|Re: Bilge keel vs. twin keels|Hi Milan , http://www.rm-yachts.com/phototheque/index.php some interesting performance oriented cruising boats I must say I love the Groups Intro pic with Alex's boat , very well done I'd say . More Links if you want them , the Dutch built racer looks great , thanks for that Link. Old Ben --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "dreemer1962" wrote: > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Gerd" wrote: > > > Hi Gerd, > > Yes, I agree, Pierre Brouns draws nice boats, I like that functional, > simple, rugged style, and profiles with long water lines. It seems > that META built quite a few. However, I'm bit worried about > unbalanced hull forms with extremely wide sterns. Never sailed such > boats though, (well, with one exemption of one afternoon race on this > http://www.maxfunboats.nl/boat.php?boat=7 very light racing boat). > > Do you heave experience with a type? I suppose that double rudders > compensate for the part of steering problems with a bigger heel > angles (one of the rudders stays in water unlike conventional single > rudder witch can get out of water making a boat unsteerable), but I > expect that tendency to change the course with each small change of > the heel stays, making them difficult to keep on the straight line > for the helmsman / windwane / autopilot - not good on passages. What > do you think? > > Milan > > > Hi Milan - interesting link, did't know that one. You should have a > > look at J P Brouns site as well: http://perso.wanadoo.fr/jean- > > pierre.brouns/ > > VERY nice designs there!! > > Gerd > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "dreemer1962" > > wrote: > > > > > > Performance oriented twin keels: > > > > > > http://www.lerouge-yachts.com/mono_TKS.htm > > > > > > Milan | 6681|6681|2005-01-27 06:33:13|sae140|Aluminium butt welds|Seeing as there has been some interest in the use of aluminium (UK sp.), and what thickness to use ... it might be advisable to keep butt weld strength in mind when doing the sums .... If you check Lincoln's site for example, there is little mention of porosity issues - but then, they *are* selling welding kit (!). However, suggest you check out: http://www.weldreality.com/aluminumalloys.htm - written by a welding consultant who has no vested interested in promoting one view or another. Amongst other comments, he writes: "A good, alum weld with proper side wall fusion should break in the weld metal. Examine the broken weld surface for porosity. Clean looking, small pore porosity is found in the best of aluminum welds." "To minimize hydrogen and weld porosity potential consider, cleaning, degreasing, stainless wire brushs or carbide wheels to remove the oxide surface. Remember you can always find porosity in the alum weld, the real question is how much is acceptable and what inspection and weld process control method will be used to control the porosity." "WELD POROSITY IS MORE OF A CONCERN WITH ALUMINUM THAN IT IS WITH STAINLESS OR STEEL. THE REASON STAINLESS AND CARBON STEEL TYPICALLY HAVE MUCH GREATER YIELD STRENGTH." (His caps, not mine) So it seems that some porosity is virtually inevitable, and an aluminium butt weld will *always* be weaker than the parent metal. Add to that the Heat-Affected-Zone issue, and I think it's fair to question whether aluminium is really a suitable material for amateur construction, especially where a straightforward translation is being made from a steel design/ building technique to one employing aluminium alloy. Just another pebble in the pond. No wish to resurrect old flame wars. Colin| 6682|6644|2005-01-27 06:43:23|sae140|Re: SeaBull3 design|Just want to comment that the Tatiana (SeaBull3 site) is a very nice looking craft - just wondering how she would handle with a firm hand on the tiller if the going got rough ? Colin| 6683|6683|2005-01-27 07:15:34|deniswig|twin props|dear all. can anybody advise on a prop issue. if you are installing engines and your budget does not stretch to specialised gearboxes and the result is that you have both screws turning in the same direction will there be much drift as it is recommended that the screws turn in oppsite directions . regards denis| 6684|6644|2005-01-27 10:21:02|Gerd|Re: origami ply??|> I know for sure that there is a navalarchitect with a good > international reputation that has the technical knowledge > to design what you are thinking off Now, who might that be??? ;-) Actually I had always hoped that there might be more than one....? > a question remains : are you willing to pay for his expertise > while at the same time offering the plans of your > YAGO for free ?? That decision I made about a year ago - I will not buy designs, but I am willing to pay for the _knowledge_ to let me design it myself (And I do so, and through the nose I must say, if that's the proper expression...) meaning that while the Yago material is and will remain free, for other, future projects, my own free time and involvement will probably have to be seen a bit differently ;-)| 6685|6644|2005-01-27 10:40:52|Bruce Hallman|Re: origami ply??|> I will not buy designs, but > I am willing to pay for the _knowledge_ Can wisdom be bought?| 6686|6644|2005-01-27 11:58:54|Alex Christie|buying wisdom\buying knowledge|Reading Bruce's question to Gerd about buying wisdom gave me a chuckle when I relate the question to my own approaches to learning about boat building and design. I have often pondered the issue of Knowledge versus Wisdom. I think they are not entirely the same thing, though wisdom may eventually flow from a combination of knowledge and experience. I have "bought knowledge" many times, including paying to attend shipwright's school, or paying a house-builder to work alongside me building a house. In either case I gained invaluable knowledge working alongside a master in their trade, and was more than happy to pay for it. Even more relevant to this point is my working alongside Brent on the building of my boat -- worth ever penny to benefit from his knowledge and experience. Decisions being made for the boat are based on real experience on the ocean, and I believe in that case that, yes, I purchased not just knowledge and experience, but the seeds of wisdom too (which will sprout when I begin my own experiences at sea). Do you want to go into outer space on a craft you have devised yourself with no outside knowledge, or would you be willing to pay a NASA scientist to give you some pointers? The scientist-engineer's background developing radiation shielding may just save your goose from getting cooked when you are up there! The "wisdom" Bruce asks about can't be bought, but there are many instances I have found that buying knowledge at a critical juncture can be the shortest distance between two points. Alex On 27-Jan-05, at 7:40 AM, Bruce Hallman wrote: > >> I will not buy designs, but >> I am willing to pay for the _knowledge_ > > Can wisdom be bought? | 6687|6644|2005-01-27 13:07:29|Gerd|Re: origami ply??|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Hallman wrote: > > I will not buy designs, but > > I am willing to pay for the _knowledge_ > > Can wisdom be bought? no, unfortunately - just like buying something from a wise man does not make the buyer any wiser... on the other hand, being ready and willing to learn for yourself, preferably from the wise, makes the student humble - and being humble of course is the seed of wisdom ;-)| 6688|6644|2005-01-27 13:11:11|Gerd|Re: buying wisdom\buying knowledge|thanks Alex, very close to my own feelings... > ... but the seeds of wisdom too .... I had just posted my answer and then skipped to the next (your) posting and found that you were using very much the same approach and words. Makes you feel in good company ;-) Gerd| 6689|6644|2005-01-27 13:43:38|Bruce Hallman|Re: buying wisdom\buying knowledge|> Reading Bruce's question to Gerd about buying wisdom gave me a chuckle I am reminded of the Robert Hunter lyric, "we paid the [story]teller off in gold, with hopes he would come back, but he could not be bought or sold". I think that what you are actually trying to buy with a boat design is the wisdom that comes from experience. That is why the great designers, start by first trying to diagonose just exactly you want/need from a boat. And, very often, the person wanting to buy the design doesn't really know what they truly want and need.| 6690|6644|2005-01-27 13:57:09|Paul J. Thompson|Re: buying wisdom\buying knowledge|I have often thought that wisdom in it's essence, is experience plus applied knowledge. Paul > > | 6691|6644|2005-01-27 15:05:35|Paul Browne|Re: origami ply??|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III" wrote: > "I see a donkey out of my window in the neighbour's garden, at my age its the only horse ( hehe Saint Nicolas 's horse ) that I consider safe mounting for my old bones. The neighbour tells me he is very stubborn and can be a real pain in the ass, some people tell the same about me:-)" You get on that donkey, Old Ben, and you'll be a pain ON the ass :-) Cheers, Paul Browne Geezer Boatworks| 6692|6614|2005-01-27 15:54:05|edward_stoneuk|Re: Notebook computer|Gary, There was an article on laptops and PCs on boats in the Practical Boat Owner May 2004 by Colin Jones who lives with wife on their Colvic Watson motor sailor for half the year. His concerns where much the same as correspondents on this thread but included shock resistance, say due to falling off a wave, especially with the hard drive running. My concern with putting all the boats information systems, depth, position etc through one computer is if that fails then all fail. Regards, Ted| 6693|6507|2005-01-27 16:04:51|edward_stoneuk|Re: Twin Keel wing and bulb ends|Amos, Alex has uploaded for me some more photos of one of my keels in the photos section under Ted's wing keel. The base is at 115° to the vertical of the keel, which means that if the keel is canted out at 25° then the base will be horizontal. Regards, Ted| 6694|6694|2005-01-27 16:05:56|run2excess2000|Boating Lights|I hope nobody minds if I recommend a website that carries the Ultra Bright II's that are a great light for anyone walking or running at night, camping,biking, hiking, RVing, safety, emergencies or anywhere you need a flashlight. Ultra Brights have the on/off switch with LED bulb that will never burn out, can be seen for over a mile and comes with a lifetime warranty, lithium batteries and a key-ring.You can check them out at www.photonmicro.com Brad| 6695|6681|2005-01-27 21:21:58|Puck III|Re: Aluminium butt welds & the Stretcher|Colin , I agree 100 % with your argument and I realy believe aluminum is not for amateurs , and that's what I wrote : > I also wonder if you can propose anything shorter in > building time than the 50 projected manhours for the hull ? > I can weld but would never dream of not hiring a real PRO > welder , its an art and science that take some experience > and that hired Pro welder is worth every penny he earns . > Dont forget , you depend on him for your life in a boat . > He sure is gone love welding that thicker Alu cause he can > put the necessary current in that work ; where as with thin > alu you must know : to much current and it melts & not > enough and you get a collage without the needed fusion :-) If you push Centraalstaal.nl in Google you will see their output in Holland went from 50000 Ton to 15000 Ton ,but they have a plant in Singapore too . Looking in TrawlerWorld Magasine you will see many adverts by Dutch Companies or their American representatives that ship in steel and alu boats out of Roumanian or Oukranian Yards ( Example : BlackSeaTrade sels real fine Trawlers ) Some larger Turkey builders have MacSurf in house and are very competitive . Steel and Aluminum is a very normal building material in Germany , Holland and Belgium , but all is precut today at real competitive prices per kg and you dont pay for waste. I never see a post in this Group about the " Stretcher " the guy that stretch the metal with heat and water and that saves a lot of unneccessary filler and primer . In northern Europ people do not like the horizontal stringers , a question of sticking to tradition . A finished hull , deck , superstructures with engine , tanks , ballast and rudder still has succes ( ofthen motoraway boats to finish , cause people dont want the CEE agregation hasle leaving that to the assembly yard ) My personal interst today is to know if there is even an interest in a 26' or smaller , so your UK opinion is most welcome. Be it in Steel or Aluminum , a niche market anyway . Old Ben --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "sae140" wrote: > > Seeing as there has been some interest in the use of aluminium (UK > sp.), and what thickness to use ... it might be advisable to keep > butt weld strength in mind when doing the sums .... > > If you check Lincoln's site for example, there is little mention of > porosity issues - but then, they *are* selling welding kit (!). > > However, suggest you check out: > http://www.weldreality.com/aluminumalloys.htm - written by a welding > consultant who has no vested interested in promoting one view or > another. Amongst other comments, he writes: "A good, alum weld with > proper side wall fusion should break in the weld metal. Examine the > broken weld surface for porosity. Clean looking, small pore porosity > is found in the best of aluminum welds." > "To minimize hydrogen and weld porosity potential consider, cleaning, > degreasing, stainless wire brushs or carbide wheels to remove the > oxide surface. Remember you can always find porosity in the alum > weld, the real question is how much is acceptable and what inspection > and weld process control method will be used to control the > porosity." > "WELD POROSITY IS MORE OF A CONCERN WITH ALUMINUM THAN IT IS WITH > STAINLESS OR STEEL. THE REASON STAINLESS AND CARBON STEEL TYPICALLY > HAVE MUCH GREATER YIELD STRENGTH." (His caps, not mine) > > So it seems that some porosity is virtually inevitable, and an > aluminium butt weld will *always* be weaker than the parent metal. > Add to that the Heat-Affected-Zone issue, and I think it's fair to > question whether aluminium is really a suitable material for amateur > construction, especially where a straightforward translation is being > made from a steel design/ building technique to one employing > aluminium alloy. > > Just another pebble in the pond. No wish to resurrect old flame wars. > > Colin | 6696|6696|2005-01-28 04:13:34|Puck III|Euroservices & Designoptions|some info you requested , parex " what does such a precut Kit consists of ? " here comes 1 of many Links , this Link has no Link with Duckworks even if you hear the Ducksound :-) http://www.euroshipservices.nl/ in Dutch and English no frameless Alu there yet ;-) Just a thought : I think 1 basehull with some options like -buildingmaterials : - Steel - Cortensteel - Aluminum - ( Ply but not on this Groups TOPIC ) -superstructures -appendixes like : - keel - kick up integrated sideboards - vertical slidingboards ( for Gerd ? ) -foldingmast(s) & rigoptions To have an idea how many options can be presented on 1 hullform you all could have a look at the Jay Benford 30' ( 23' to 25' wl ) Series with 24 of those options presented in his " Cruising Designs " Book Old Ben| 6697|6696|2005-01-28 05:05:27|Gerd|Re: Euroservices & Designoptions|> http://www.euroshipservices.nl/ > in Dutch and English Interesting site that, Old Ben, and I thought I knew them all ;-) Some of the motorboats are quite neat and ruggeddesigns. Also well worth clicking through all the models, as they have tons of assembly pictures throughout.. VERY nice, Thanks a lot ;-)| 6698|6696|2005-01-28 06:34:07|Puck III|Re: Euroservices & Designoptions|Hi Gerd , thanks for the positive comments I hope you saw the Mulder 20m in Alu in the customs projects from Euroservices. My Italian Job was twice that big :-) I write this for our Italian co-member Alfredo and I hope he reads this ( ciao Alfredo ) Kees the owner of Euroservices knows his job extreemly well and he takes it all , from the smallest to the largest job with the same ease. I hope you saw we did not forget our common love: "vertical sideboards " in the optionlist I posted about the 26' or smaller boat. Dont you think it would be a good idea to work out a questionaire to have an idea what people realy like and want ? Or is their realy no one interested in this aproach in this almost 1000 members Group ? Just wondering ? Old Ben --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Gerd" wrote: > > > > http://www.euroshipservices.nl/ > > in Dutch and English > Interesting site that, Old Ben, and I thought I knew them all ;-) > Some of the motorboats are quite neat and ruggeddesigns. > Also well worth clicking through all the models, as they have tons > of assembly pictures throughout.. > VERY nice, Thanks a lot ;-) | 6699|6644|2005-01-28 06:47:22|sae140|Re: buying wisdom\buying knowledge|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Paul J. Thompson" wrote: > I have often thought that wisdom in it's essence, is experience plus > applied knowledge. > > Paul > My take on this is: Knowledge is about confidently raising the stakes whilst holding a straight flush with a million dollars already on the table. Wisdom is about realising that you're playing cards in the saloon of the Titanic. Colin| 6700|6644|2005-01-28 08:10:41|edward_stoneuk|Re: buying wisdom\buying knowledge|www.wisdomquotes.com has quotes on knowledge and wisdom. Regards, Ted| 6701|6681|2005-01-28 08:19:46|sae140|Re: Aluminium butt welds & the Stretcher|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III" wrote: > > My personal interst today is to know if there is even an interest > in a 26' or smaller Well for what it's worth, I think small aluminium dinghies/ tenders could be a successful market, and I'm surprised that no-one is addressing this. With regard to yachts 26ft or less, I don't think I'm saying anything original when pointing out the weight penalty of steel in smaller hulls - 30ft(ish) seems to be the agreed optimum. Although Gerd is stretching the steel thickness/ displacement envelope, I'm sure even he'd agree that working in thin steel takes a lot of care. Going back to absolute basics, it might be worth pointing out that ALL boats are more-or-less hand-built or even custom-built items. So with this in mind, the major cost of any boatbuilding project is going to be that of labour - unless you choose to build in a third- world region of course. This, to my mind, is the BIG issue - that any boat-building enterprise revolves around it's labour costs. This is where wood and steel come into their own as DIY boatbuilding materials, where one's own labour can be considered as "free" (in the sense that it doesn't involve expenditure). Although I don't favour ally myself for boat hulls, I acknowledge it would be a very useful DIY material for smaller yacht hulls if only the welding were easier. But the moment you hire a pro welder, the costs rocket skywards. So from an economic point of view, that leaves just grp and wood for the smaller boat - both well-used and with their own characteristics and track records. Personally I think strip-plank is an under-rated technique, and well worth considering for a smaller one-off yacht, especially if clad in glass/epoxy. Very mixed views on plywood. The Origami technique would certainly reduce the amount of potential end-grain exposure which is notorious for causing cheaper grades of ply to rot, but plywood lacks any ductility which would make Origami construction very difficult, especially where bends are severe (around the transom and the bow areas). Laminating thin sheets into an adequate hull thickness would be both laborious and tricky. I suppose a thin plywood Origami hull could initially be constructed, with closed-cell foam sheeting then applied in honey-comb fashion to the outside of this, with a final layer of glass/epoxy on the outside ? But - dunno how this would work in practice. My 2 pence worth. Colin| 6702|6696|2005-01-28 09:40:26|Gerd|Re: Euroservices & Designoptions|> Dont you think it would be a good idea to work > out a questionaire to have an idea what people > realy like and want ? old ben, I just don't like them myself and never fill them out... every time I filled one of them bloody things they asked me to pay more taxes ;-) Also, I do not want to design so much "for a market". I think that current production designs represent pretty well what people want (or think they want...) Ask people what they want and they wills start counting berths and say things like "solid, seaworthy, comfortable..." and of course they are right and of course there are already 200 designs from very good designers out there that fit the bill, and well done on top of it, nothing to improve upon in most cases. But a new design in a niche market like amateur construction should offer people something really new, should surprise them and create a love-it-or-hate it reaction. The really new ideas and propositions come from the designers, not from the customer. Just look at your puck... it's a super, great boat with a suprising idea and results... but do you think that could have come out of a questionaire?? (Or did it....? ;-) ) Gerd the yago project at http://www.justmueller.com/boats/| 6703|6644|2005-01-28 14:19:20|Bruce Hallman|Re: buying wisdom\buying knowledge|> quotes on knowledge and wisdom. I sat down and tried to write some quotes about wisdom and boats, and came up very short! [thinking aloud] I figure more than anything, boats are inanimate, and in the end it all boils down to how and why people *use* boats. For instance, in the end, it is the captain and crew that make boating safe. [Or indeed, decide how safe is safe enough.] Or, the best racing boat won't satisfy the cruiser, or the best cruising boat wont satisfy the racer, and no boat does both best. And, boat aesthetics are in the eye of the beholder. I don't have my copy of L.F. Herreshoff's book _The Common Sense of Yacht Design_ in hand, but that book is full of boating wisdom. For instance, he makes the point that the typical boat user will have to go through three or four wrong boats to finally settle upon the right boat. Also, he makes a strong case for the principle that in almost all situations, simpler is better.| 6704|6696|2005-01-29 06:23:29|Puck III|Re: Euroservices & Designoptions for a 26 ft|Hi Gerd , any designer sets out with a designgoal be it for others or for him or herself . I will be needing , lets hope not to soon , a larger boat to house the nurses to hoist the sails and push my wheelchair , for now I make do with a 29' cause I like intimacy on board :-) Back to the 26' or smaller project . I found some interested female parties and one of them has done her homework ( the wishlist or designgoal ) extreemly well . She has a wishlist high as a mountain ( lets hope we can narrow it down ) a sharp pen and sure some character. I pointed out this Group to her and I hope she joins in . http://www.janice142.com/Sailboats.htm is her website . I think a female input in a mansworld is always an asset . If I am not mistaken you are in a lowcost labor area , so..... a fine design , at an extreem resonable cost ....... with a EU high sea agregation number ...... , wealthy Americans and Canadians standing in line to pay for the privilege to build the NEW BIRD as a serie product..... Aint that simple cause neither Rome or Paris wher build in one day , I am always willing to give a hand , especialy to the ladies :-) , dont all mariners do ???? Naughty Old Ben --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Gerd" wrote: > > > > Dont you think it would be a good idea to work > > out a questionaire to have an idea what people > > realy like and want ? > old ben, I just don't like them myself and never fill them out... > every time I filled one of them bloody things they asked me to pay > more taxes ;-) > > Also, I do not want to design so much "for a market". I think that > current production designs represent pretty well what people want > (or think they want...) > > Ask people what they want and they wills start counting berths and > say things like "solid, seaworthy, comfortable..." and of course > they are right and of course there are already 200 designs from very > good designers out there that fit the bill, and well done on top of > it, nothing to improve upon in most cases. > > But a new design in a niche market like amateur construction should > offer people something really new, should surprise them and create a > love-it-or-hate it reaction. The really new ideas and propositions > come from the designers, not from the customer. Just look at your > puck... it's a super, great boat with a suprising idea and > results... but do you think that could have come out of a > questionaire?? (Or did it....? ;-) ) > > Gerd > the yago project at http://www.justmueller.com/boats/ | 6705|6696|2005-01-29 08:27:08|Gerd|Re: Euroservices & Designoptions for a 26 ft|> If I am not mistaken you are in a lowcost labor area... Yes old Ben, Hungary is still a relatively interesting area for labour costs, although that is changing. Especially if you leave the capital, net salaries for manual labor drop well below 500 Euro/month. On the other hand, in Budapest, and im my line of work (we develop software systems), we hire people with ever increasing cost. We take on programmers (experienced, but not specialist, just good production coders) and they expect by now a net salary of about 1000 Euro. Cost (gross) is high, count a factor of 2.6 on the net, meaning the cost for the company would be about 2.600 E. With the cost of living here that makes a nice salary, the guys start buying personal cars or finacing apartments on that, which would have been impossible even 5 years ago. That's still well below say Austria, but when we started our project here it was much lower. Today the tendancy for sorftware outsourcing would not START project here but rather go further east, Minsk is high on the list, as wel as Russia. Quality in general is good, Hungarians are serious steady workers, nice to be with, good professional qualifations in all areas, and culturally quite close to western Europe, so there is a lot successful international investment in all areas. Actually when the east opened in '90, everybody from technology to cars to sofdrinks to communication tech came to Budapest and established their center for eastern Europe. Lots of expats here, I'm one of them. It's not a bad place to here, I spend the first years of the ninties all over the east, and some countries were clearly more difficult to live and work in. If only they had a coast ;-) There is not so much yachting experience, although they do have the giant Lake Balaton. The Med is at a couple of hours drive, and with increasing living standards they start going there for charter, buying boats and so on. There is a lot of boat-import (western tupperware mostly). There are a few small local yards building GRP boats, and there is a guy who builds (or at least built some time ago) steel cascos for a dutch yard... (Pedro?) BTW, in your prospect lady's site I found a link to "Bottom Pain in the Tropics - SSCA BB ". Means we can now add pain in the BOTTOM to our growing collection of "pain in the ass" to "pain ON the ass". Having or being it should of course be much nicer in the tropics...;- ) Gerd the Yago project at http://www.justmueller.com/boats/| 6706|6644|2005-01-29 09:52:02|pvanderwaart|Re: origami ply??|I have some reservations about origami in plywood. It's not so much a question of "could you?" but of "should you?" There are two basic points. First, when you bend ply, you stretch the outside layer and compress the inner layer. Since the layers have grain in one direction or another, the result may depend on the direction of the bend. If the bend tends to pull the grain apart, the outer layer may have a pronouced tendancy to check, especially if it is not protected from the water, e.g. by an epoxy/cloth sheathing. The compression forces on the inside may also do damage if the bend is too severe for the thickness of the plywood. Taken together, these problems may mean that the thickest ply that can take the bends may be too thin for the weight of the boat. You can compensate by sheathing (with glass or veneers) or with interior frames and stringers, but that loses the advantage of orimai construction. The second problem is that although the origami technique can give a good shape for a cruising sailboat, the range of shapes that can be produced this way is limited, especially if you avoid small-radius bends for the reasons given above. Many small boat shapes have quite tight turns at the bilge. So, I am sure it is workable if the boat is light enough for its length, and if you can get the shape you want, but it does come with limitations. And, if you interest is boating (and not boat-building), you should concentrate on the boat you want, not on the construction method. I might also add that modern stitch & glue methods of building epoxy/ply boats have most of the advantages of origami, without the limitations. Peter| 6707|6409|2005-01-29 10:04:19|pvanderwaart|Re: smaller orgami boats|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "rcjoyner" wrote: > > does anyone know of plans for smaller orgami boats like 16 to 24 foot > inboard or outboard powered?? > > not sailboats - just power boats. > > thanks, Yves-Marie Tanton has designed a origami powerboat in aluminum. Gpo here: http://www.tantonyachts.com/ and look for design 794 in images and the catalog. He as also designed a couple origami sailboats. See # 979 and # 239. Peter| 6708|6644|2005-01-29 11:42:02|Gerd|origami sandwich|Thanks Peter - that was exactly my feeling and the reason for my posting. Still, I am trying to see how you can get the advantages of origami assembly as we discuss it here (easy building, some compound curve, sweeter hulls than pure hard-chine) in materials lighter than steel and more accessible than alloy. In the meantime I got some very interesting hints from YM Tanton (merci, m'sieur ;-) ), who offers also a method he calls "contour panels" where a sort of stitch and glue chine construction is done with sandwich panels that may be either glass/ply/glass or glass/foam/glass and that set me off on thinking along the following lines: 1) lay out a flat panel of some cheap material with a glossy top finish and cut the typical BS origami pattern out of it. 2) wax, and apply a skin of GRP onto it 3) place and glue a layer of foam over it (leaving the edges free for future joining) just like the contour panels, except that now we will NOT apply the inner skin. 4) Run a circular saw, or thin router over the foam, in lines spaced say 5 cm, either to produce squares, or even with taking in account the future shape using some sort of "radial! cuts. These cuts would not completely traverse the foam, say just 3/4 deep. You would create lots of small blocks with a bit of air between them that would later allow to bend to a compound curve . Alternatively you might also take some flexible foam or end-grain balsa product, that's a question of desired performance and of price - there are tons of core materials out there with different characteristics. The idea is to get a panel that is just stiff enough to handle nicely, but that would thanks to the slots easily bend around the inside 5) you now have an origami sandwich pattern with just the outer skin and the core. lift of the flat form and trim edges. 6) pull the hulls together, stich and adjust, sit level etc and fit bulkheads. 7) build up strong inside fillet in the chines and glass over 8) sand off the chines outsides to a sweet round and glass over. That should take care of any hard knuckels and pussible cracks produced at the chine ends wen pulling together. 9) glass in the inside skin to finish the composite sandwich structure Advantages I would see: - All the good parts of origami assembly - no jib, no mold, no lifting equipment to get the hull out - no lost material or work apart from the - perfect outer finish, no sanding - as light and stiff as you want it. Scantling would be throughout analog to sandwich in mould costruction, nothing special here, and is well known today. - finally: depending on the materials used for skin and core, and the fact that unlike in metal construction you could already vary thickness during layup of the first outer skin you can get a flat panel of non-uniform strength and stiffness and optimise for strength where needed (thicker bottom & lighter topsides, one of the shortcomings of steel origami) and for helping the hull take nice compound curves. I believe that you would be able to get much smoother, rounder shapes than with steel. Definetely would need some trying out. Pity I already have a building site in the garden - anybody looking for a small design for origami sandwich ?? ;-) Any comments anybody - apart from the obvious "steel is better"... ? Gerd The Yago Project at http://www.justmueller.com/boats/ --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "pvanderwaart" wrote: > > I have some reservations about origami in plywood. It's not so much a > question of "could you?" but of "should you?" There are two basic > points. > > First, when you bend ply, you stretch the outside layer and compress > the inner layer. Since the layers have grain in one direction or > another, the result may depend on the direction of the bend. If the > bend tends to pull the grain apart, the outer layer may have a > pronouced tendancy to check, especially if it is not protected from > the water, e.g. by an epoxy/cloth sheathing. The compression forces > on the inside may also do damage if the bend is too severe for the > thickness of the plywood. Taken together, these problems may mean > that the thickest ply that can take the bends may be too thin for the > weight of the boat. You can compensate by sheathing (with glass or > veneers) or with interior frames and stringers, but that loses the > advantage of orimai construction. > > The second problem is that although the origami technique can give a > good shape for a cruising sailboat, the range of shapes that can be > produced this way is limited, especially if you avoid small-radius > bends for the reasons given above. Many small boat shapes have quite > tight turns at the bilge. > > So, I am sure it is workable if the boat is light enough for its > length, and if you can get the shape you want, but it does come with > limitations. And, if you interest is boating (and not boat- building), > you should concentrate on the boat you want, not on the construction > method. > > I might also add that modern stitch & glue methods of building > epoxy/ply boats have most of the advantages of origami, without the > limitations. > > Peter | 6709|6644|2005-01-29 13:28:17|pvanderwaart|Re: origami sandwich|> In the meantime I got some very interesting hints from YM Tanton > (merci, m'sieur ;-) ), who offers also a method he calls "contour > panels" where a sort of stitch and glue chine construction is done > with sandwich panels that may be either glass/ply/glass or > glass/foam/glass and that set me off on thinking along the following > lines: Mr. Tanton seems to have a restless intelligence. Whenever a new idea comes on the market, he likes to check it out and see if it could be of use to him. The "contour panels" idea is related to Kelsall's method. Based on the examples I've seen, I think there are steps that require a real craftman's eye. In other words, some builders can get good results, but I would be cautious about a general recommendation to the army of home builders. (I'm cautious about most everything, so don't take it too seriously.) Mulihull designer and builder Richard Woods has a similar method. He lays up fiberglass panels on the flat and uses them instead of ply. This is for his V-bottom boats. (Again this year, there was no Mira under my Xmas tree, alas!). I don't remember that Woods uses foam core, though. The Kurt Hughs cylinder mold method is another stab at a similar idea. It's a sort of simple layup followed by origami. Peter| 6710|6633|2005-01-29 14:06:42|evanmoonjunk|Re: about the 26'|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "servo_bot" wrote: > > Hi Evan, > > Did the owner of the 26 sail from the US or Canada to Australia? That > would be quite an impressive journey. > > And, of course, the Dove III story is amazing. > >Hi Andy, that boat was sailed from Vancouver island Canada...Evan > > > > | 6711|6633|2005-01-29 14:11:01|evanmoonjunk|Re: about the 26'|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Suzanne Pentz and John Wyatt Coy wrote: > > Hello Evan, > Congratulations! Babies are so wonderful, (at least until they become > teenagers..) > I don't know you well enough to knit your little one baby booties, so > will offer my > opinion on being confined in a small space with one-if you have two > kids- they will keep each > other company, learn so much more together, & if you have a safe space > cordoned off below, > you might get a few moments peace on deck occasionally. > I remember my grandmother talking about her mother putting the youngest > in a nail keg > to watch things without being underfoot. You might want to keep an > eye out for a nail keg : ) > Oh, this is big- highly recommend you try to go for a slightly larger > boat. > My husband and I bought a pickup truck when our first son was a baby, > before we knew it we > had another one and another... well, the pickup was quickly just too > small. 4 more feet of length > could easily provide a couple of Kid berths for quite a few years. > Just my opinions, hope everything goes > well for you all and that you manage to get some sleep! > Hi Nicole I think you have me confused with Andy(puckIII) The only babies I conceived were boats....Evan| 6712|22|2005-01-29 14:27:38|origamiboats@yahoogroups.com|New file uploaded to origamiboats |Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the origamiboats group. File : /B.BinghamNA1.jpg Uploaded by : pascalibook Description : know how & experience You can access this file at the URL: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/files/B.BinghamNA1.jpg To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit: http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files Regards, pascalibook | 6713|6633|2005-01-29 14:58:12|Puck III|Re: about the 26'|Hi Evan , you confuse me ( Puck III ) with Andy , even if I love babys , its more than 30 years ago I conceived one ;-) on the other hand you never know could be easyer to conceive a baby than a boat :-) good luck with the boats ( and a baby ??? ) Old Ben --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "evanmoonjunk" wrote: > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Suzanne Pentz and John Wyatt Coy > wrote: > > > > Hello Evan, > > Congratulations! Babies are so wonderful, (at least until they > become > > teenagers..) > > I don't know you well enough to knit your little one baby booties, > so > > will offer my > > opinion on being confined in a small space with one-if you have two > > kids- they will keep each > > other company, learn so much more together, & if you have a safe > space > > cordoned off below, > > you might get a few moments peace on deck occasionally. > > I remember my grandmother talking about her mother putting the > youngest > > in a nail keg > > to watch things without being underfoot. You might want to keep > an > > eye out for a nail keg : ) > > Oh, this is big- highly recommend you try to go for a slightly > larger > > boat. > > My husband and I bought a pickup truck when our first son was a > baby, > > before we knew it we > > had another one and another... well, the pickup was quickly just > too > > small. 4 more feet of length > > could easily provide a couple of Kid berths for quite a few years. > > Just my opinions, hope everything goes > > well for you all and that you manage to get some sleep! > > Hi Nicole I think you have me confused with Andy(puckIII) The only > babies I conceived were boats....Evan | 6714|6589|2005-01-29 18:27:13|Puck III|Re: Bilge keel vs. twin keels|Hi Milan , nice Link you posted http://www.maxfunboats.nl/boat.php?boat=7 Maarten Voogd from the Simonis Voogd Design Team made the one of his biggest hits , at least I think so , by having Ludde Ingvalls last Nicorette win the latest Rolex Sydney Hobart and beat the longer favorites Skandia & Konica Minolta . I usualy quote nobody , cause fine designers realy need no amplifiers , (translated from Dutch:-) Maarten Voogd says : " Research was our investment in that project . A win is worth more than money " Just to point out that modern racing design experience is influencing boatdesign all the time , so that modern hullforms evolve all the time , like in the automobile world , faster than people can imagine but for the benefit of all . Origami is not new , but the method is new for many designers ,Brent Swain with his book & boats is one of the pioneers , lets not forget Meade Gougeon for the wooden boats . Is this Group gone become a forum for wooden boats ? I dought it's the Topic so until I find otherwise in Alex Intro , I will abstain from any comment about wooden boatconstruction. I hope the 26' receives any attention but to be frank we saw no real interest in this Group for now . Milan in most new raceboats , even the soloracers, we find wide hulled boats and the problems of directional stability are over and done with and even at very high speed I can assure you that the autopilot can manage the steering with ease. Same with modern cruisers :-) They just became safer and easyer to steer . Old Ben --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "dreemer1962" wrote: > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Gerd" wrote: > > > Hi Gerd, > > Yes, I agree, Pierre Brouns draws nice boats, I like that functional, > simple, rugged style, and profiles with long water lines. It seems > that META built quite a few. However, I'm bit worried about > unbalanced hull forms with extremely wide sterns. Never sailed such > boats though, (well, with one exemption of one afternoon race on this > http://www.maxfunboats.nl/boat.php?boat=7 very light racing boat). > > Do you heave experience with a type? I suppose that double rudders > compensate for the part of steering problems with a bigger heel > angles (one of the rudders stays in water unlike conventional single > rudder witch can get out of water making a boat unsteerable), but I > expect that tendency to change the course with each small change of > the heel stays, making them difficult to keep on the straight line > for the helmsman / windwane / autopilot - not good on passages. What > do you think? > > Milan > > > Hi Milan - interesting link, did't know that one. You should have a > > look at J P Brouns site as well: http://perso.wanadoo.fr/jean- > > pierre.brouns/ > > VERY nice designs there!! > > Gerd > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "dreemer1962" > > wrote: > > > > > > Performance oriented twin keels: > > > > > > http://www.lerouge-yachts.com/mono_TKS.htm > > > > > > Milan | 6715|6715|2005-01-29 20:11:22|Courtney Thomas|information needed on connecting a diesel engine to a welder/genera|I have a Cummins 335 diesel engine [885 cu in] that I wish to connect to a welder so I can not only weld, but also provide emergency power to my house. Has anyone done this or does anyone know... where I can get specific information on how to best do this ? Appreciatively, Courtney -- s/v Mutiny Rhodes Bounty II lying Oriental, NC WDB5619| 6716|6715|2005-01-29 21:39:23|denis buggy|Re: information needed on connecting a diesel engine to a welder/ge|dear Courtney if you must do it the hard way you can save some time by looking at a good hire gen set this will show you need to mount your engine on 4 good rubber mounts on a wheeled frame as you must not be able to make a circuit by touching the steel transport frame and you can simply open a hire gen set control box and copy the wiring take photos and buy the switches and sockets and make up a control board , however your engine is huge for the task . I have a single cyl lister engine driving a stephill generator output 4kva at 110 volts and 2 kva at 220 volts = 34 amps and 17 amps respectably . you will need a electrian to advise you and inspect your work you would be advised to find somebody qualified who would take on your project maybe in their spare time . I would sell the big engine and buy a high quality set at an auction and recondition the generator and service the engine and you would have something which was safe and would do what you wish as it was designed to do . you can start a single cyl lister with a starting handle you will not start the Cummins with king kong and his sister . Denis ----- Original Message ----- From: Courtney Thomas To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2005 1:08 AM Subject: [origamiboats] information needed on connecting a diesel engine to a welder/generator I have a Cummins 335 diesel engine [885 cu in] that I wish to connect to a welder so I can not only weld, but also provide emergency power to my house. Has anyone done this or does anyone know... where I can get specific information on how to best do this ? Appreciatively, Courtney -- s/v Mutiny Rhodes Bounty II lying Oriental, NC WDB5619 To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links a.. To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/ b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 6717|6717|2005-01-29 22:24:42|Graeme|wind generator|Some was looking for a cheap wind generator or a permanent magnet motor. http://www.sustainability.ofm.uwa.edu.au/welcome/dirty_linen [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]| 6718|6715|2005-01-29 22:38:29|Courtney Thomas|Re: information needed on connecting a diesel engine to a welder/ge|Denis, Thank you for your further attention, though I can tell you are a little impatient with me :-) I already have a truck with a Cummins 335 diesel engine. I don't want to mount the engine on anything. It's already mounted in the truck. I want it to be the generator/welder power supply. I already have a welder that I got for practically nothing that has it's power supply burnt up. I want the diesel engine to power supply for the welder/generator [to be]. Not only will it be a good excuse to run the truck engine more often, but will provide portability for welding/electricity & a good size emergency electricity source, if needed. I also own a gasoline Onan 6.4KW [220v 30amp] generator but it won't power a sizable arc welder, I'm told. Of course it'll do in an emergency for a small power source for a short while, but the Cummins 335 would be a serious power supply for a generator for all purposes. I'm familiar with the small Listers but they won't provide the power I want. I was hoping to find someone who'd done this already that could save me some grief. I should add I only paid a few thousand for the truck and it runs great and has many uses with it's bed + extension, and it's hydraulic hoist & boom, in addition to [potentially] being a power source for a welder and generator. Your interest and commentary are welcomed, Courtney denis buggy wrote: > dear Courtney if you must do it the hard way you can save some time by looking at a good hire gen set this will show you need to mount your engine on 4 good rubber mounts on a wheeled frame as you must not be able to make a circuit by touching the steel transport frame and you can simply open a hire gen set control box and copy the wiring take photos and buy the switches and sockets and make up a control board , however your engine is huge for the task . I have a single cyl lister engine driving a stephill generator output 4kva at 110 volts and 2 kva at 220 volts = 34 amps and 17 amps respectably . you will need a electrian to advise you and inspect your work you would be advised to find somebody qualified who would take on your project maybe in their spare time . I would sell the big engine and buy a high quality set at an auction and recondition the generator and service the engine and you would have something which was safe and would do what you wish as it was designed to do . you can start a single cyl lister with a starting handle you will not start the Cummins with king kong and his sister . Denis > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Courtney Thomas > To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2005 1:08 AM > Subject: [origamiboats] information needed on connecting a diesel engine to a welder/generator > > > I have a Cummins 335 diesel engine [885 cu in] that I wish to connect to > a welder so I can not only weld, but also provide emergency power to my > house. > > Has anyone done this or does anyone know... where I can get specific > information on how to best do this ? > > Appreciatively, > Courtney > -- > s/v Mutiny > Rhodes Bounty II > lying Oriental, NC > WDB5619 > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Yahoo! Groups Links > > a.. To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/ > > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > -- s/v Mutiny Rhodes Bounty II lying Oriental, NC WDB5619| 6719|6719|2005-01-30 07:09:00|Puck III|A Classic Beauty|Classic Beauty stays forever , just have a look at the BlueMoon 1 & 2 pics in Photos :-) Bruce Bingham NA , see " B.BinghamNA.jpg.jpg " File in Files, explaines it so well , how this is conceived and drawn . Old Ben| 6720|6644|2005-01-30 08:07:29|Puck III|Re: SeaBull3 design|Hi Colin , thanks for the positive comment :-) A pretty Belgian with Cape Verdian origins . All International Crew needs proper training . See CDI seamansbook , CDIb and CDIc files in the Folder " International Crews " in the Seabull3 Files to find some of the available crew(s) maritime credentials . In need of a good cook , to hold your tiller in in heavy weather , or bring you home in case of sudden hartfailure . Just make contact with the " Lonely Skipper Crew Agency " :-) , I 'l see if I find the WebLink for the realy interested . Naughty Old Ben --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "sae140" wrote: > > Just want to comment that the Tatiana (SeaBull3 site) is a very nice > looking craft - just wondering how she would handle with a firm hand > on the tiller if the going got rough ? Colin | 6721|6715|2005-01-30 17:52:51|denis buggy|Re: information needed on connecting a diesel engine to a welder/ge|dear courtney i did not know the engine was in the truck which you love so much . if you are determined to use the truck you have already used the pto with the hydraulic pump and the only other source is world war one vintage technology purchase belting and have somebody weld a good round pipe on a scrap wheel rim and drive your generator like a old threshing set . belts are very dangerous and the better solution would be get a small gen set to support your onan set and weld away tomorrow , i do not mean to be pompous i am just trying to communicate some of the suffering i have caused to myself and others by doing things which should not have been done . regards denis ----- Original Message ----- From: Courtney Thomas To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2005 3:34 AM Subject: Re: [origamiboats] information needed on connecting a diesel engine to a welder/generator Denis, Thank you for your further attention, though I can tell you are a little impatient with me :-) I already have a truck with a Cummins 335 diesel engine. I don't want to mount the engine on anything. It's already mounted in the truck. I want it to be the generator/welder power supply. I already have a welder that I got for practically nothing that has it's power supply burnt up. I want the diesel engine to power supply for the welder/generator [to be]. Not only will it be a good excuse to run the truck engine more often, but will provide portability for welding/electricity & a good size emergency electricity source, if needed. I also own a gasoline Onan 6.4KW [220v 30amp] generator but it won't power a sizable arc welder, I'm told. Of course it'll do in an emergency for a small power source for a short while, but the Cummins 335 would be a serious power supply for a generator for all purposes. I'm familiar with the small Listers but they won't provide the power I want. I was hoping to find someone who'd done this already that could save me some grief. I should add I only paid a few thousand for the truck and it runs great and has many uses with it's bed + extension, and it's hydraulic hoist & boom, in addition to [potentially] being a power source for a welder and generator. Your interest and commentary are welcomed, Courtney denis buggy wrote: > dear Courtney if you must do it the hard way you can save some time by looking at a good hire gen set this will show you need to mount your engine on 4 good rubber mounts on a wheeled frame as you must not be able to make a circuit by touching the steel transport frame and you can simply open a hire gen set control box and copy the wiring take photos and buy the switches and sockets and make up a control board , however your engine is huge for the task . I have a single cyl lister engine driving a stephill generator output 4kva at 110 volts and 2 kva at 220 volts = 34 amps and 17 amps respectably . you will need a electrian to advise you and inspect your work you would be advised to find somebody qualified who would take on your project maybe in their spare time . I would sell the big engine and buy a high quality set at an auction and recondition the generator and service the engine and you would have something which was safe and would do what you wish as it was designed to do . you can start a single cyl lister with a starting handle you will not start the Cummins with king kong and his sister . Denis > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Courtney Thomas > To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2005 1:08 AM > Subject: [origamiboats] information needed on connecting a diesel engine to a welder/generator > > > I have a Cummins 335 diesel engine [885 cu in] that I wish to connect to > a welder so I can not only weld, but also provide emergency power to my > house. > > Has anyone done this or does anyone know... where I can get specific > information on how to best do this ? > > Appreciatively, > Courtney > -- > s/v Mutiny > Rhodes Bounty II > lying Oriental, NC > WDB5619 > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Yahoo! Groups Links > > a.. To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/ > > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > -- s/v Mutiny Rhodes Bounty II lying Oriental, NC WDB5619 To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links a.. To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/ b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 6722|6715|2005-01-30 19:41:31|Courtney Thomas|Re: information needed on connecting a diesel engine to a welder/ge|Denis, Please understand... in no way do I mean to demean your efforts on my behalf and in fact....I thank you for your interest and time responding to my objectives. It's not so much I love the truck, it's that I have it, it has great potential to meet all my interest in having... a portable welding, electic power source, hydraulic power hoist w/boom, as well as hauler w/trailer... to supplement my, rather remote, barn/shop's needs in all these regards. Rather remarkable, at least in my poor mind. I just received an email from a pipeline welder that has and uses daily a truck that has a setup that sounds like exactly what I want to do. I must quickly add that I've never seen or heard of a truck set up the way his is, but am delighted to realize it's apparently off the shelf components. It has a "drive-line" PTO [not hydraulic that runs off the transmission, that powers the welder/generator. So, now I need to find out where to get such a PTO, hopefully not exorbitant in cost :-) Another hope I've been contacted about is: a washing machine motor as described on www.sustainability.ofm.uwa.edu.au [see item: Dirty Linen] Interesting stuff ! Cordially, Courtney I readily accept your explanation of your motive in "warning me off" and believe you to be sincere and advising me with good intent. Lastly, you may turn out to be exactly right. If so, I'll unhesitatingly admit so and turn aside from my current agenda. denis buggy wrote: > dear courtney i did not know the engine was in the truck which you love so much . if you are determined to use the truck you have already used the pto with the hydraulic pump and the only other source is world war one vintage technology purchase belting and have somebody weld a good round pipe on a scrap wheel rim and drive your generator like a old threshing set . belts are very dangerous and the better solution would be get a small gen set to support your onan set and weld away tomorrow , i do not mean to be pompous i am just trying to communicate some of the suffering i have caused to myself and others by doing things which should not have been done . regards denis > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Courtney Thomas > To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2005 3:34 AM > Subject: Re: [origamiboats] information needed on connecting a diesel engine to a welder/generator > > > Denis, > > Thank you for your further attention, though I can tell you are a little > impatient with me :-) > > I already have a truck with a Cummins 335 diesel engine. I don't want to > mount the engine on anything. It's already mounted in the truck. I want > it to be the generator/welder power supply. > > I already have a welder that I got for practically nothing that has it's > power supply burnt up. I want the diesel engine to power supply for the > welder/generator [to be]. > > Not only will it be a good excuse to run the truck engine more often, > but will provide portability for welding/electricity & a good size > emergency electricity source, if needed. > > I also own a gasoline Onan 6.4KW [220v 30amp] generator but it won't > power a sizable arc welder, I'm told. Of course it'll do in an emergency > for a small power source for a short while, but the Cummins 335 would be > a serious power supply for a generator for all purposes. > > I'm familiar with the small Listers but they won't provide the power I > want. > > I was hoping to find someone who'd done this already that could save me > some grief. > > I should add I only paid a few thousand for the truck and it runs great > and has many uses with it's bed + extension, and it's hydraulic hoist & > boom, in addition to [potentially] being a power source for a welder and > generator. > > Your interest and commentary are welcomed, > > Courtney > > > denis buggy wrote: > > > dear Courtney if you must do it the hard way you can save some time by looking at > > a good hire gen set this will show you need to mount your engine on 4 good rubber mounts > > on a wheeled frame as you must not be able to make a circuit by touching the > > steel transport frame and you can simply open a hire gen set control box and copy > > the wiring take photos and buy the switches and sockets and make up a control board , > > however your engine is huge for the task . I have a single cyl lister engine driving a > > stephill generator output 4kva at 110 volts and 2 kva at 220 volts = 34 amps and 17 amps > > respectably . you will need a electrian to advise you and inspect your work you would be > > advised to find somebody qualified who would take on your project maybe in their spare time > > . I would sell the big engine and buy a high quality set at an auction and recondition > > the generator and service the engine and you would have something which was safe and > > would do what you wish as it was designed to do . you can start a single cyl lister > > with a starting handle you will not start the Cummins with king kong and his sister . Denis > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Courtney Thomas > > To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2005 1:08 AM > > Subject: [origamiboats] information needed on connecting a diesel engine to a welder/generator > > > > > > I have a Cummins 335 diesel engine [885 cu in] that I wish to connect to > > a welder so I can not only weld, but also provide emergency power to my > > house. > > > > Has anyone done this or does anyone know... where I can get specific > > information on how to best do this ? > > > > Appreciatively, > > Courtney > > -- > > s/v Mutiny > > Rhodes Bounty II > > lying Oriental, NC > > WDB5619 > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > a.. To visit your group on the web, go to: > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/ > > > > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > s/v Mutiny > Rhodes Bounty II > lying Oriental, NC > WDB5619 > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Yahoo! Groups Links > > a.. To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/ > > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > -- s/v Mutiny Rhodes Bounty II lying Oriental, NC WDB5619| 6723|6644|2005-01-30 20:20:58|mat_man22|Re: origami ply??|12' Swamp Yankee Canoe done in origami: http://members.aol.com/swmpyanke/swmpyanke http://members.fortunecity.com/smallboat/swamp/cuttingout.html Someone has also written a book with the same type plans but you can build 12',14' or 16'. I may have the hull cut plans someplace.| 6724|6724|2005-01-30 21:52:43|Puck III|$48.75 - SALE 60% off - Chine boatdesignprogram|Interested in a real cheap & decent boat designprogram with a modeling program so you can make your own models be it for steel , aluminum or plyboats http://www.plyboats.com/ and testing is totaly free :-) Old Ben| 6725|6633|2005-01-31 04:50:59|Suzanne Pentz and John Wyatt Coy|Re: about the 26'|aih! sorry Evan! hope your babies are all doing well then. lack of sleep is catching up with me. (was practicing for staying awake days on end sailing : )| 6726|6589|2005-01-31 14:48:02|brentswain38|Re: Bilge keel vs. twin keels|I sailed my first boat, a pipe dream out of the book Skenes elements of Yacht Design, around the Ssouth Pacific for a couple of years in the early 70's . It was wide assed, narrow bowed , grosly unbalanced. Yanking the keel attached rudder and puting a skeg mounted rudder six feet further aft improved control, but even motoring in flat water was like walking a tightrope to kep her on course. Twin rudders on such a boat would greatly improve your ability to control her but not lessen in any way her demand to be controled. Regardless of how much rudder control you may have , leaving the helm for a few seconds would let her wander instantly off course. I wouldn't want to go anywhere in such a boat.One such boat burned out all her many spare autopilots before reaching Capetown in the round the qworls singlehanded race and dropped out .Cruising in such a boat would make no sense whatever. Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "dreemer1962" wrote: > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Gerd" wrote: > > > Hi Gerd, > > Yes, I agree, Pierre Brouns draws nice boats, I like that functional, > simple, rugged style, and profiles with long water lines. It seems > that META built quite a few. However, I'm bit worried about > unbalanced hull forms with extremely wide sterns. Never sailed such > boats though, (well, with one exemption of one afternoon race on this > http://www.maxfunboats.nl/boat.php?boat=7 very light racing boat). > > Do you heave experience with a type? I suppose that double rudders > compensate for the part of steering problems with a bigger heel > angles (one of the rudders stays in water unlike conventional single > rudder witch can get out of water making a boat unsteerable), but I > expect that tendency to change the course with each small change of > the heel stays, making them difficult to keep on the straight line > for the helmsman / windwane / autopilot - not good on passages. What > do you think? > > Milan > > > Hi Milan - interesting link, did't know that one. You should have a > > look at J P Brouns site as well: http://perso.wanadoo.fr/jean- > > pierre.brouns/ > > VERY nice designs there!! > > Gerd > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "dreemer1962" > > wrote: > > > > > > Performance oriented twin keels: > > > > > > http://www.lerouge-yachts.com/mono_TKS.htm > > > > > > Milan | 6727|6592|2005-01-31 14:56:22|brentswain38|Re: To Brent -> how2 rig an alternator welder for a 335hp diesel en|With a dial caliper I found that the wires going into the 65 watt bulb are smaller and stiffer, , and thus have higher resistance than those used in the field windings of a 35 amp alternator, so I won't worry about using a 65 watt bulb on the field line heating up the field windings. The bulb wires would burn off first and they don't even get warm.Are the field windings a thicker wire on bigger alternators? As I've spent a lot of time climbing up and down my boarding ladder with the alternator going full bore and full field , without any problem with the diodes since last summer, turning off the field while the rod is still in the puddle is overly paranoid,and totally unjustified.I have the switch just inside the main hatch, which has worked well so far. Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "T & D CAIN" wrote: > Hi Brent, the addition of a 110V lamp of 40 watts or above will help hold > the output voltage down when not welding, but there could be two > consequences: > 1. The rods may not start as easily if the output volts are not at least 70 > for stainless (prefer 80 to 90) --- so the lamp size (watts) needs to be > tried out, it may be that a 20W one is appropriate for your particular > setup. > 2. The field still needs a rest to cool a bit, so the extra lamp idea is > probably helping only the main diodes survive higher than normal reverse > voltage spikes. My comment about suppressing the field spikes at switch-off > time may be better handled by permanently connecting either a power diode > directly across the field (in non-conducting direction for your external > supply via the 65 W lamp). > OR, if the battery is fully charged or separately maintained at 12/14 V, > put another small (10W 12V) lamp directly across the slipring feed. > > Incidentally, your use of the 65W (or similar) lamp has a good effect in > that it tends to keep the field current more constant as the battery drops > its terminal voltage - assuming this battery isn't being charged > independently. This happens because the lower lamp current means the lamp > filament resistance drops and so it is a simple constant current- like > device. > The 120V output at no load is likely to be more the result of RPM than field > feed current under the conditions described earlier. (Auto idle down scheme > required?) > The field current has its biggest effect on no-output load volts at the low > end of the RPM range. > > Terry > > -----Original Message----- > From: brentswain38 [mailto:brentswain38@h...] > Sent: Saturday, 22 January 2005 07:52 > To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [origamiboats] Re: To Brent -> how2 rig an alternator welder for a > 335hp diesel engine ? > > > > I put a voltmeter on the stinger and ground and it said 120 volts. It > ran the angle grinder fine. Small angle grinders are cheaper than > inverters. > Perhaps I should try smaller and smaller light bulbs to see how > small a one I can get away with. I throw the toggle switch off when > I'm not welding ,to cool the diodes. Someone suggested a small light > bulb in parallel with the stinger and ground to protect the diodes. > Would that help? > Brent > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "T & D CAIN" wrote: > > I know this stuff looks simple, but it is not quite as it first > appears. > > Consider the following, and I hope this helps the discussion and > > experimentation along: > > > > The 100A alternator probably has a field resistance of at least 3 > ohms at > > 20deg.C, so ignoring the resistance of the external wiring and the > contact > > resistance of the slipring feed (some of which has a negative > coefficient > > wrt temperature) you will not be feeding 5.5 amps through the > circuit > > described. > > Apply the battery to the field at its nominal 12 V without any > additional > > lamp resistance, and there might be about 4 amps, but probably less. > > It would need to be quite a bit less actually, because the wire > size used in > > these things will not be happy at a continuous 4 amps except in > Alaska. > > The field winding would be happy at 4 amps for no more than it > takes for the > > copper and its encapsulating varnish to reach around 125 deg. C. > This, of > > course, will be like asking "how long is a piece of string?" , so > many are > > the variables involved in finding a sensible duty cycle for the non- > standard > > use of a standard design. > > > > The 65W lamp has a hot resistance of something like 2.2 ohms and a > cold > > resistance of less than 0.5 ohms. This tungsten (halogenated or > plain) lamp > > is a variable resistor with a big negative coefficient of > resistance with > > temp.. You will need something like 20 V to put 4 amps into the > field with > > that lamp in series (if 4 amps is what is required). > > > > So why can Brent weld OK with his setup? > > > > Because it works for short periods and is within the design > limitations of > > the unit for the rods he is using. It depends on how long you allow > the > > thing to cool between welds. > > The average current through the field of a 100A alternator at full > output is > > not found by ohms law when a regulator is used. It is a lot less > because of > > the regulator switching action, especially when RPM is added to the > picture. > > Take the regulator away (or build a special one), and some things > can be > > changed. > > > > The 3 phase stator winding, whether connected in 'star' or 'delta', > has its > > own characteristics. It also has an AC current limit of its own and > that is > > why these things don't have a current regulator as well as a voltage > > regulator. The stator coils and their resistance, in conjunction > with the > > air gap between rotor and stator, together with the frequency > (RPM), and the > > electromagnetic performance of the stator iron laminations, all > combine to > > limit current by a sort of AC resistance called impedance or > reactance. Sort > > of 'self limiting' at some higher-than-normal output current. > > > > Commercial auto alternators use an interesting set of numbers to > bring truth > > to the ratings discussion. Bosch alternators (and a lot of mass > produced > > others) have some numbers on the casing like this: K1 14 20 55A or > KC-A 14V > > 40 100A. ----- these translate to "Claw-pole" type -- 14 Volts > (nominal) -- > > (20 or 40) hundreds of RPM at which speed, two thirds of the > maximum current > > (36\55 or 66\100 in these examples) is available. ie, the 100 amp > job will > > produce 14 volts at 66 amps at 4000 rotor RPM. Load it down with a > low > > battery and it will produce a higher current than 66 at 2000 RPM > but at a > > lower voltage, and if you can spin it at 6000 RPM, it will do lots > of work > > at 12 volts and a little less at 14 to 15 volts when it is > operating with > > its own regulator. > > > > How well the standard diode pack handles this non-standard work is > really > > hard to pin down. There is no problem if the current output remains > within > > 120% of rating for less than a 25% duty cycle, the temperature of > the > > cooling air is not above (say) 30 C., and the external circuit is > resistive. > > This last bit means that you need to ensure that the welding leads > are not > > separated and coiled so as to create an inductive spike when the > arc is > > broken at the end of a run. One plan would be to have the field > switch Brent > > mentions on the hand piece so that the alternator field is > disconnected > > before pulling the rod away. This would require one extra component > in the > > form of a small power diode across the switch (in the reverse > direction) to > > allow the rotor field to circulate its stored energy as the switch > opens. > > Unfortunately, it would also mean the rod is likely to stick in the > end > > pool, and then again, it's nice sometimes to be able to put the > holder into > > tight corners without having an accidental flash or two. > > So the situation is not really simple, and then again I suppose it > is if we > > don't get too fixated on the detail (which I am sure I do too > often!). > > > > As Brent has said, these items are quite cheap to buy and replace > if there > > is a failure, and there is no doubt that they can drive a welding > arc under > > the right conditions. > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: tronfixr [mailto:tronfixr@y...] > > Sent: Thursday, 20 January 2005 14:20 > > To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [origamiboats] Re: To Brent -> how2 rig an alternator > welder for a > > 335hp diesel engine ? > > > > > > > > I believe the following to be correct; > > > > For the same field winding excitation current in a 24VDC system, you > > will need a 130W light bulb (power(Watts)=current X voltage)if Brent > > is using 12VDC. Brent would be putting around 5.5 Amps through his > > field windings with a 65W bulb and a 12VDC supply. At 24VDC a 65W > bulb > > would result in around 2.7A . This would be about the same as a 2 > ohm > > resistor for 12VDC and a 9 ohm resistor at 24VDC. Using rpm to vary > > the output instead of using variable resistance on the field > > excitation puts a few kinks in figuring the output current. Another > > method would be to use a variable resistor (0 to 10 ohms?) rated at > > 100W 12VDC (200W 24VDC), leave the engine rpm steady and adjust the > > resistor for the desired output. > > > > Without knowing the output current and for how long that current can > > be sustained, it would be impossible to figure the duty cycle (the > > amount of time active compaired to the amount of time needed to cool > > down). The specs for the alternator should call out the max constant > > current output as well as the max field excitation. > > > > Something I wonder about is some auto alternators do not have the > > regulator built in to the case (Ford?). This could present a problem > > if you managed to get one without knowing it. This link describes > > making a welder with either type: > > > > http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/on-boardwelder/ > > > > Surprizingly, they do not mention choking the field excitation > > > > Mike > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Courtney Thomas > > wrote: > > > Thank you Brent. > > > > > > I'll try it :-) > > > > > > Courtney > > > > > > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Yahoo! Groups Links | 6728|6644|2005-01-31 15:06:12|brentswain38|Re: origami ply??|There is no reason origami boatbuilding couldn't be done in ply. The chine ends would tend to crack up a bit but it's nothoing that couldn't be cured with epoxy and several additional veneers added inside after putting the hull and decks together. Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Gerd" wrote: > > Hi - anybody has any opinion on building smaller boats from the same > type of pattern in plywood? Imagine you would want to do a relatively > light 26 footer, steel too heavy and alloy too frightening for many > people... > > origami is close enough to ply stitch & glue construction really, and > for smaller boats (24 to 28 or so) ply might be an alternative to > alloy. > Without starting a Ply versus metal discussion here, the question is > really: does it make sense for a construction point of view? Can you > see any problems? > At the chine-ends... would it break and tear up, and would that be a > problem if this is then properly taken in the epoxy glass fillet? > Could ply be bend around the sharper curve of the transom, and would > we get different compound curves? > > I have built several ply dinghies, the last one a Murray Isles > designed sharpie 5.5 m long. we set up the frames upside down in the > usual way, and then planked it with pre-cut panels, but after having > handled the origami steel-sheets so easily I wondered if that might > not have worked just as well. > > Any input appreciated ;-) | 6729|6507|2005-01-31 15:13:07|brentswain38|Re: Twin Keel wing and bulb ends|The problem with a horizontal base is that it's extremely hard to clean and pant when the boat is dried out, yet is a lot more work and has no real advantage. Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "edward_stoneuk" wrote: > > Amos, > > Alex has uploaded for me some more photos of one of my keels in the > photos section under Ted's wing keel. The base is at 115° to the > vertical of the keel, which means that if the keel is canted out at > 25° then the base will be horizontal. > > Regards, > Ted | 6730|6694|2005-01-31 15:19:13|brentswain38|Re: Boating Lights|On my first LED flashlight, bought in November , the eternal LED bulb burned out by the following march, despite rare , occasional use. A friend bought one with four bulbs in november and two were burned out by march. My attempts at LED anchor lights burned out so may LED bulbs that I gave up on LED and went back to incandescent, which seem to last far longer. LED's are grosly overated and, per watt, produce no more candlepower than incandescent bulbs. Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "run2excess2000" wrote: > > I hope nobody minds if I recommend a website that carries the Ultra > Bright II's that are a great light for anyone walking or running at > night, > camping,biking, hiking, RVing, safety, emergencies or anywhere you > need a > flashlight. Ultra Brights have the on/off switch with LED bulb that > will never burn out, can be seen for over a mile and comes with a > lifetime warranty, lithium batteries and a key-ring.You can check > them out at www.photonmicro.com Brad | 6731|6507|2005-01-31 16:39:43|edward_stoneuk|Re: Twin Keel wing and bulb ends|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "brentswain38" wrote: > > The problem with a horizontal base is that it's extremely hard to > clean and pant when the boat is dried out, yet is a lot more work and > has no real advantage. > Brent Yes, you are right about painting and cleaning and a lot of work. I first started thinking about keel bulbs/wing tips when you wrote about using old oxy bottles as keel end torpedoes. I inferred from that idea that you thought a bit of extra weight low down would be worthwhile. I didn't use old oxy bottles because first I haven't got any and second because I thought the straight side and bluff end would create too much drag. I guess I will never know if they are an improvement. Perhaps when we have finally got her in the water we can meet and try it out. Regards, Ted| 6732|6732|2005-01-31 17:36:08|kingsknight4life|Masthead lights|I read in Brent's book about using a 12v troublelight as a masthead light. I've been on the lookout ever since. Well you can get them at Walmart, aprox. $20-25 Rowland| 6733|6592|2005-01-31 20:25:57|T & D CAIN|Re: To Brent -> how2 rig an alternator welder for a 335hp diesel en|If it works, don't change it. Field windings can be wound with different size wire - depends on the design. The field magnet is all about ampere turns --- the number of turns in the coil and the current flowing. The designer knows how many amp/turns are needed to produce a magnetic flux level in the stator iron for rated output at specific conditions of RPM and temperature. He also knows that maximum output is not normally required for long periods, so the regulator is usually holding down the field current to well below maximum. (Duty cycle and environment). Wire size is chosen to suit temperature rise and mechanical strength and of course, product lifespan. It is well to remember that in their design, auto alternators are expected to live and survive bolted onto an engine running at around 90 deg.C, and under a bonnet with hot air to cool them, they are consequently tough little fellas. Terry -----Original Message----- From: brentswain38 [mailto:brentswain38@...] Sent: Tuesday, 1 February 2005 05:26 To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Subject: [origamiboats] Re: To Brent -> how2 rig an alternator welder for a 335hp diesel engine ? With a dial caliper I found that the wires going into the 65 watt bulb are smaller and stiffer, , and thus have higher resistance than those used in the field windings of a 35 amp alternator, so I won't worry about using a 65 watt bulb on the field line heating up the field windings. The bulb wires would burn off first and they don't even get warm.Are the field windings a thicker wire on bigger alternators? As I've spent a lot of time climbing up and down my boarding ladder with the alternator going full bore and full field , without any problem with the diodes since last summer, turning off the field while the rod is still in the puddle is overly paranoid,and totally unjustified.I have the switch just inside the main hatch, which has worked well so far. Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "T & D CAIN" wrote: > Hi Brent, the addition of a 110V lamp of 40 watts or above will help hold > the output voltage down when not welding, but there could be two > consequences: > 1. The rods may not start as easily if the output volts are not at least 70 > for stainless (prefer 80 to 90) --- so the lamp size (watts) needs to be > tried out, it may be that a 20W one is appropriate for your particular > setup. > 2. The field still needs a rest to cool a bit, so the extra lamp idea is > probably helping only the main diodes survive higher than normal reverse > voltage spikes. My comment about suppressing the field spikes at switch-off > time may be better handled by permanently connecting either a power diode > directly across the field (in non-conducting direction for your external > supply via the 65 W lamp). > OR, if the battery is fully charged or separately maintained at 12/14 V, > put another small (10W 12V) lamp directly across the slipring feed. > > Incidentally, your use of the 65W (or similar) lamp has a good effect in > that it tends to keep the field current more constant as the battery drops > its terminal voltage - assuming this battery isn't being charged > independently. This happens because the lower lamp current means the lamp > filament resistance drops and so it is a simple constant current- like > device. > The 120V output at no load is likely to be more the result of RPM than field > feed current under the conditions described earlier. (Auto idle down scheme > required?) > The field current has its biggest effect on no-output load volts at the low > end of the RPM range. > > Terry > > -----Original Message----- > From: brentswain38 [mailto:brentswain38@h...] > Sent: Saturday, 22 January 2005 07:52 > To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [origamiboats] Re: To Brent -> how2 rig an alternator welder for a > 335hp diesel engine ? > > > > I put a voltmeter on the stinger and ground and it said 120 volts. It > ran the angle grinder fine. Small angle grinders are cheaper than > inverters. > Perhaps I should try smaller and smaller light bulbs to see how > small a one I can get away with. I throw the toggle switch off when > I'm not welding ,to cool the diodes. Someone suggested a small light > bulb in parallel with the stinger and ground to protect the diodes. > Would that help? > Brent > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "T & D CAIN" wrote: > > I know this stuff looks simple, but it is not quite as it first > appears. > > Consider the following, and I hope this helps the discussion and > > experimentation along: > > > > The 100A alternator probably has a field resistance of at least 3 > ohms at > > 20deg.C, so ignoring the resistance of the external wiring and the > contact > > resistance of the slipring feed (some of which has a negative > coefficient > > wrt temperature) you will not be feeding 5.5 amps through the > circuit > > described. > > Apply the battery to the field at its nominal 12 V without any > additional > > lamp resistance, and there might be about 4 amps, but probably less. > > It would need to be quite a bit less actually, because the wire > size used in > > these things will not be happy at a continuous 4 amps except in > Alaska. > > The field winding would be happy at 4 amps for no more than it > takes for the > > copper and its encapsulating varnish to reach around 125 deg. C. > This, of > > course, will be like asking "how long is a piece of string?" , so > many are > > the variables involved in finding a sensible duty cycle for the non- > standard > > use of a standard design. > > > > The 65W lamp has a hot resistance of something like 2.2 ohms and a > cold > > resistance of less than 0.5 ohms. This tungsten (halogenated or > plain) lamp > > is a variable resistor with a big negative coefficient of > resistance with > > temp.. You will need something like 20 V to put 4 amps into the > field with > > that lamp in series (if 4 amps is what is required). > > > > So why can Brent weld OK with his setup? > > > > Because it works for short periods and is within the design > limitations of > > the unit for the rods he is using. It depends on how long you allow > the > > thing to cool between welds. > > The average current through the field of a 100A alternator at full > output is > > not found by ohms law when a regulator is used. It is a lot less > because of > > the regulator switching action, especially when RPM is added to the > picture. > > Take the regulator away (or build a special one), and some things > can be > > changed. > > > > The 3 phase stator winding, whether connected in 'star' or 'delta', > has its > > own characteristics. It also has an AC current limit of its own and > that is > > why these things don't have a current regulator as well as a voltage > > regulator. The stator coils and their resistance, in conjunction > with the > > air gap between rotor and stator, together with the frequency > (RPM), and the > > electromagnetic performance of the stator iron laminations, all > combine to > > limit current by a sort of AC resistance called impedance or > reactance. Sort > > of 'self limiting' at some higher-than-normal output current. > > > > Commercial auto alternators use an interesting set of numbers to > bring truth > > to the ratings discussion. Bosch alternators (and a lot of mass > produced > > others) have some numbers on the casing like this: K1 14 20 55A or > KC-A 14V > > 40 100A. ----- these translate to "Claw-pole" type -- 14 Volts > (nominal) -- > > (20 or 40) hundreds of RPM at which speed, two thirds of the > maximum current > > (36\55 or 66\100 in these examples) is available. ie, the 100 amp > job will > > produce 14 volts at 66 amps at 4000 rotor RPM. Load it down with a > low > > battery and it will produce a higher current than 66 at 2000 RPM > but at a > > lower voltage, and if you can spin it at 6000 RPM, it will do lots > of work > > at 12 volts and a little less at 14 to 15 volts when it is > operating with > > its own regulator. > > > > How well the standard diode pack handles this non-standard work is > really > > hard to pin down. There is no problem if the current output remains > within > > 120% of rating for less than a 25% duty cycle, the temperature of > the > > cooling air is not above (say) 30 C., and the external circuit is > resistive. > > This last bit means that you need to ensure that the welding leads > are not > > separated and coiled so as to create an inductive spike when the > arc is > > broken at the end of a run. One plan would be to have the field > switch Brent > > mentions on the hand piece so that the alternator field is > disconnected > > before pulling the rod away. This would require one extra component > in the > > form of a small power diode across the switch (in the reverse > direction) to > > allow the rotor field to circulate its stored energy as the switch > opens. > > Unfortunately, it would also mean the rod is likely to stick in the > end > > pool, and then again, it's nice sometimes to be able to put the > holder into > > tight corners without having an accidental flash or two. > > So the situation is not really simple, and then again I suppose it > is if we > > don't get too fixated on the detail (which I am sure I do too > often!). > > > > As Brent has said, these items are quite cheap to buy and replace > if there > > is a failure, and there is no doubt that they can drive a welding > arc under > > the right conditions. > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: tronfixr [mailto:tronfixr@y...] > > Sent: Thursday, 20 January 2005 14:20 > > To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [origamiboats] Re: To Brent -> how2 rig an alternator > welder for a > > 335hp diesel engine ? > > > > > > > > I believe the following to be correct; > > > > For the same field winding excitation current in a 24VDC system, you > > will need a 130W light bulb (power(Watts)=current X voltage)if Brent > > is using 12VDC. Brent would be putting around 5.5 Amps through his > > field windings with a 65W bulb and a 12VDC supply. At 24VDC a 65W > bulb > > would result in around 2.7A . This would be about the same as a 2 > ohm > > resistor for 12VDC and a 9 ohm resistor at 24VDC. Using rpm to vary > > the output instead of using variable resistance on the field > > excitation puts a few kinks in figuring the output current. Another > > method would be to use a variable resistor (0 to 10 ohms?) rated at > > 100W 12VDC (200W 24VDC), leave the engine rpm steady and adjust the > > resistor for the desired output. > > > > Without knowing the output current and for how long that current can > > be sustained, it would be impossible to figure the duty cycle (the > > amount of time active compaired to the amount of time needed to cool > > down). The specs for the alternator should call out the max constant > > current output as well as the max field excitation. > > > > Something I wonder about is some auto alternators do not have the > > regulator built in to the case (Ford?). This could present a problem > > if you managed to get one without knowing it. This link describes > > making a welder with either type: > > > > http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/on-boardwelder/ > > > > Surprizingly, they do not mention choking the field excitation > > > > Mike > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Courtney Thomas > > wrote: > > > Thank you Brent. > > > > > > I'll try it :-) > > > > > > Courtney > > > > > > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Yahoo! Groups Links To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links | 6734|6694|2005-01-31 20:38:12|Gary H. Lucas|Re: Boating Lights|Brent, This is simply not true. LEDs do produce more light per watt, and they do last as long as 100,00 hours. They are rapidly replacing all of the street lights in the US with LEDs as we speak. My brother is an electrical contractor. He a did a few hundred for the state of NJ just last year. Of course the assumption here is that the proper engineering is being done. My suspicion is that the LEDs are being made brighter by driving them at higher currents, and that is what kills them. I used to build machines with two LED powered photo sensors. They were expensive so we took one apart to see how they worked. They had a typical LED, rated around 20 milliamps. They were being driven at 1 FULL amp! Of course the pulse lasted just 1/100,000 of a second, and it pulsed 1000 times a second. So the average current was just 10 milliamps. I am still in contact with customers using those sensors. Some of them have being running 24/7 for the past 18 years! I put out some 2000 of them and the failure rate in all that time is just a handful. Sometimes there is no substitute for GOOD engineering. Gary H. Lucas ----- Original Message ----- From: "brentswain38" To: Sent: Monday, January 31, 2005 3:17 PM Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Boating Lights > > > On my first LED flashlight, bought in November , the eternal LED bulb > burned out by the following march, despite rare , occasional use. A > friend bought one with four bulbs in november and two were burned out > by march. My attempts at LED anchor lights burned out so may LED > bulbs that I gave up on LED and went back to incandescent, which seem > to last far longer. LED's are grosly overated and, per watt, produce > no more candlepower than incandescent bulbs. > Brent > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "run2excess2000" > wrote: >> >> I hope nobody minds if I recommend a website that carries the Ultra >> Bright II's that are a great light for anyone walking or running at >> night, >> camping,biking, hiking, RVing, safety, emergencies or anywhere you >> need a >> flashlight. Ultra Brights have the on/off switch with LED bulb that >> will never burn out, can be seen for over a mile and comes with a >> lifetime warranty, lithium batteries and a key-ring.You can check >> them out at www.photonmicro.com Brad > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > | 6735|6694|2005-01-31 21:10:36|Graeme|Re: Boating Lights|If the voltage is to high they do not last.You need to put in a resistor to bring down the voltage to suit the LED or source 12 volt LEDS there is more on the market now than a few years ago -----Original Message----- From: Gary H. Lucas [mailto:gary.lucas@...] Sent: Tuesday, 1 February 2005 9:30 AM To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [origamiboats] Re: Boating Lights Brent, This is simply not true. LEDs do produce more light per watt, and they do last as long as 100,00 hours. They are rapidly replacing all of the street lights in the US with LEDs as we speak. My brother is an electrical contractor. He a did a few hundred for the state of NJ just last year. Of course the assumption here is that the proper engineering is being done. My suspicion is that the LEDs are being made brighter by driving them at higher currents, and that is what kills them. I used to build machines with two LED powered photo sensors. They were expensive so we took one apart to see how they worked. They had a typical LED, rated around 20 milliamps. They were being driven at 1 FULL amp! Of course the pulse lasted just 1/100,000 of a second, and it pulsed 1000 times a second. So the average current was just 10 milliamps. I am still in contact with customers using those sensors. Some of them have being running 24/7 for the past 18 years! I put out some 2000 of them and the failure rate in all that time is just a handful. Sometimes there is no substitute for GOOD engineering. Gary H. Lucas ----- Original Message ----- From: "brentswain38" To: Sent: Monday, January 31, 2005 3:17 PM Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Boating Lights > > > On my first LED flashlight, bought in November , the eternal LED bulb > burned out by the following march, despite rare , occasional use. A > friend bought one with four bulbs in november and two were burned out > by march. My attempts at LED anchor lights burned out so may LED > bulbs that I gave up on LED and went back to incandescent, which seem > to last far longer. LED's are grosly overated and, per watt, produce > no more candlepower than incandescent bulbs. > Brent > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "run2excess2000" > wrote: >> >> I hope nobody minds if I recommend a website that carries the Ultra >> Bright II's that are a great light for anyone walking or running at >> night, >> camping,biking, hiking, RVing, safety, emergencies or anywhere you >> need a >> flashlight. Ultra Brights have the on/off switch with LED bulb that >> will never burn out, can be seen for over a mile and comes with a >> lifetime warranty, lithium batteries and a key-ring.You can check >> them out at www.photonmicro.com Brad > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links | 6736|6736|2005-02-01 01:09:35|Alex|progress on boat|It must be spring! Thanks to no snow and a nice warm spell, Brent and I worked on the skeg and keels today, finishing the skeg attachment. I've put a few snapshots from our day into the "Alex's" file, showing a few details concerning the positioning of the skeg, plus a tip for keeping the skeg from sliding off sideways while pulling it up. The extra bonus to the day was getting some final bits of footage I need for the technical film, with only the keel attachment and rudder scenes to complete the show, plus some live sailing action (with another boat, not this one yet!). Maybe we'll get this movie ready for distribution by the end of February, with luck. I'll keep all who are interested posted when the film is ready to go. Alex| 6737|6507|2005-02-01 01:29:22|Alex|Re: Twin Keel wing and bulb ends|Brent and I were discussing twin keeled BS 36 hulls with keel bottoms that sit flat on the ground, and Brent came up with an idea that painting the bottom of the flats could be accomplished on a drying tide by allowing the keels to settle on a piece of angle iron. There would be only a tiny surface area of the keels flat touching the steel. The angle iron could be braced on the bottom of its triangular section by welding on some steel to prevent the triangle's legs from spreading. The only challenge would be to get these trianglar blocks in the right spot while the tide settles, though the twin keels do help because they are shorter, as well as mounted higher on the hull. On another note, Brent also mentioned that the bottom of the keels get heavily polished if you let the boat dry out often, so little -- if any -- growth ever gets ahold of that area. Brent's keel bottoms have seen very little attention for over 18 years and have not suffered, so one could surmise that Ted's Keels will fare just as well. Maybe I'll get over to England in my twin keeler (heck only a couple of weeks sail across the Atlantic, right?), in which case we can do some tests comparing my stock boat to Ted's wing keels. Who knows, there might be some big surprises and we'll all be putting the Stone keel on future boats! I think getting more lead down low is bound to have an effect on how stiff Ted's boat is under sail, perhaps sailing a little flatter, which is always a bonus. The great thing about these boats is how people can experiment and innovate, try out new ideas, all for pretty much the same cost as doing it "by the book". It adds an element of fun in the equation. Alex > Yes, you are right about painting and cleaning and a lot of work. I > first started thinking about keel bulbs/wing tips when you wrote > about using old oxy bottles as keel end torpedoes. I inferred from > that idea that you thought a bit of extra weight low down would be > worthwhile. I didn't use old oxy bottles because first I haven't > got any and second because I thought the straight side and bluff end > would create too much drag. I guess I will never know if they are > an improvement. Perhaps when we have finally got her in the water > we can meet and try it out. > Regards, > Ted | 6738|6507|2005-02-01 01:52:19|bilgekeeldave|Re: Twin Keel wing and bulb ends|I dunno, my Brent Swain 31, twin keeler, always sinks a few inches into the botton when I ground her for maintenance. I wash away the mud along side the keels with the pressure washer, but I can't ever get antifouling on the keel bottoms unless I haul her out in a boat yard, that has happened about five times in the last 22 years. I am always exploring shallow creeks, that seems to keep the sea growth from buiding up on the keel bottoms. Heck If I don't run aground a few times a year, I'm not sailing it right! Dave --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Alex" wrote: > > Brent and I were discussing twin keeled BS 36 hulls with keel bottoms that sit flat on the > ground, and Brent came up with an idea that painting the bottom of the flats could be > accomplished on a drying tide by allowing the keels to settle on a piece of angle iron. > There would be only a tiny surface area of the keels flat touching the steel. The angle iron > could be braced on the bottom of its triangular section by welding on some steel to > prevent the triangle's legs from spreading. The only challenge would be to get these > trianglar blocks in the right spot while the tide settles, though the twin keels do help > because they are shorter, as well as mounted higher on the hull. > > On another note, Brent also mentioned that the bottom of the keels get heavily polished if > you let the boat dry out often, so little -- if any -- growth ever gets ahold of that area. > Brent's keel bottoms have seen very little attention for over 18 years and have not > suffered, so one could surmise that Ted's Keels will fare just as well. > > Maybe I'll get over to England in my twin keeler (heck only a couple of weeks sail across > the Atlantic, right?), in which case we can do some tests comparing my stock boat to Ted's > wing keels. Who knows, there might be some big surprises and we'll all be putting the > Stone keel on future boats! I think getting more lead down low is bound to have an effect > on how stiff Ted's boat is under sail, perhaps sailing a little flatter, which is always a > bonus. The great thing about these boats is how people can experiment and innovate, try > out new ideas, all for pretty much the same cost as doing it "by the book". It adds an > element of fun in the equation. > > Alex > > > Yes, you are right about painting and cleaning and a lot of work. I > > first started thinking about keel bulbs/wing tips when you wrote > > about using old oxy bottles as keel end torpedoes. I inferred from > > that idea that you thought a bit of extra weight low down would be > > worthwhile. I didn't use old oxy bottles because first I haven't > > got any and second because I thought the straight side and bluff end > > would create too much drag. I guess I will never know if they are > > an improvement. Perhaps when we have finally got her in the water > > we can meet and try it out. > > Regards, > > Ted | 6739|6694|2005-02-01 02:58:48|T & D CAIN|Re: Boating Lights|Actually, most LEDs are designed to be fed by a constant current source, try to forget voltage if you want life in the hundreds of thousands of hours. Older ones usually designed for 20mA. The voltage drop across the LED at its rated current varies depending on the type --- 1.8 up to 3+ --- so you need to know what type you are using. The newer brighter (really bright) vary in the current required for the light output and to maintain long life. These very bright types are usually run from a "driver" circuit which keeps the current constant (Luxeon in particular) when the voltage may be varying. You can of course feed them quite high currents if the 'on' time is very short as Gary has just said. Don't give up on LEDs, there was an item on Oz News Radio yesterday forecasting complete conversion to this light source in the near? future. Terry -----Original Message----- From: Graeme [mailto:gmit4885@...] Sent: Tuesday, 1 February 2005 11:39 To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [origamiboats] Re: Boating Lights If the voltage is to high they do not last.You need to put in a resistor to bring down the voltage to suit the LED or source 12 volt LEDS there is more on the market now than a few years ago -----Original Message----- From: Gary H. Lucas [mailto:gary.lucas@...] Sent: Tuesday, 1 February 2005 9:30 AM To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [origamiboats] Re: Boating Lights Brent, This is simply not true. LEDs do produce more light per watt, and they do last as long as 100,00 hours. They are rapidly replacing all of the street lights in the US with LEDs as we speak. My brother is an electrical contractor. He a did a few hundred for the state of NJ just last year. Of course the assumption here is that the proper engineering is being done. My suspicion is that the LEDs are being made brighter by driving them at higher currents, and that is what kills them. I used to build machines with two LED powered photo sensors. They were expensive so we took one apart to see how they worked. They had a typical LED, rated around 20 milliamps. They were being driven at 1 FULL amp! Of course the pulse lasted just 1/100,000 of a second, and it pulsed 1000 times a second. So the average current was just 10 milliamps. I am still in contact with customers using those sensors. Some of them have being running 24/7 for the past 18 years! I put out some 2000 of them and the failure rate in all that time is just a handful. Sometimes there is no substitute for GOOD engineering. Gary H. Lucas ----- Original Message ----- From: "brentswain38" To: Sent: Monday, January 31, 2005 3:17 PM Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Boating Lights > > > On my first LED flashlight, bought in November , the eternal LED bulb > burned out by the following march, despite rare , occasional use. A > friend bought one with four bulbs in november and two were burned out > by march. My attempts at LED anchor lights burned out so may LED > bulbs that I gave up on LED and went back to incandescent, which seem > to last far longer. LED's are grosly overated and, per watt, produce > no more candlepower than incandescent bulbs. > Brent > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "run2excess2000" > wrote: >> >> I hope nobody minds if I recommend a website that carries the Ultra >> Bright II's that are a great light for anyone walking or running at >> night, >> camping,biking, hiking, RVing, safety, emergencies or anywhere you >> need a >> flashlight. Ultra Brights have the on/off switch with LED bulb that >> will never burn out, can be seen for over a mile and comes with a >> lifetime warranty, lithium batteries and a key-ring.You can check >> them out at www.photonmicro.com Brad > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links | 6740|6694|2005-02-01 07:57:03|Bill Jaine|Re: Boating Lights|What about the heads in the new traffic lights, would they make good running lights or are they too expensive? Bill Port Hope. Canada -----Original Message----- From: T & D CAIN [mailto:thcain@...] Sent: 1-Feb-05 2:59 AM To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [origamiboats] Re: Boating Lights Actually, most LEDs are designed to be fed by a constant current source, try to forget voltage if you want life in the hundreds of thousands of hours. Older ones usually designed for 20mA. The voltage drop across the LED at its rated current varies depending on the type --- 1.8 up to 3+ --- so you need to know what type you are using. The newer brighter (really bright) vary in the current required for the light output and to maintain long life. These very bright types are usually run from a "driver" circuit which keeps the current constant (Luxeon in particular) when the voltage may be varying. You can of course feed them quite high currents if the 'on' time is very short as Gary has just said. Don't give up on LEDs, there was an item on Oz News Radio yesterday forecasting complete conversion to this light source in the near? future. Terry -----Original Message----- From: Graeme [mailto:gmit4885@...] Sent: Tuesday, 1 February 2005 11:39 To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [origamiboats] Re: Boating Lights If the voltage is to high they do not last.You need to put in a resistor to bring down the voltage to suit the LED or source 12 volt LEDS there is more on the market now than a few years ago -----Original Message----- From: Gary H. Lucas [mailto:gary.lucas@...] Sent: Tuesday, 1 February 2005 9:30 AM To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [origamiboats] Re: Boating Lights Brent, This is simply not true. LEDs do produce more light per watt, and they do last as long as 100,00 hours. They are rapidly replacing all of the street lights in the US with LEDs as we speak. My brother is an electrical contractor. He a did a few hundred for the state of NJ just last year. Of course the assumption here is that the proper engineering is being done. My suspicion is that the LEDs are being made brighter by driving them at higher currents, and that is what kills them. I used to build machines with two LED powered photo sensors. They were expensive so we took one apart to see how they worked. They had a typical LED, rated around 20 milliamps. They were being driven at 1 FULL amp! Of course the pulse lasted just 1/100,000 of a second, and it pulsed 1000 times a second. So the average current was just 10 milliamps. I am still in contact with customers using those sensors. Some of them have being running 24/7 for the past 18 years! I put out some 2000 of them and the failure rate in all that time is just a handful. Sometimes there is no substitute for GOOD engineering. Gary H. Lucas ----- Original Message ----- From: "brentswain38" To: Sent: Monday, January 31, 2005 3:17 PM Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Boating Lights > > > On my first LED flashlight, bought in November , the eternal LED bulb > burned out by the following march, despite rare , occasional use. A > friend bought one with four bulbs in november and two were burned out > by march. My attempts at LED anchor lights burned out so may LED > bulbs that I gave up on LED and went back to incandescent, which seem > to last far longer. LED's are grosly overated and, per watt, produce > no more candlepower than incandescent bulbs. > Brent > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "run2excess2000" > wrote: >> >> I hope nobody minds if I recommend a website that carries the Ultra >> Bright II's that are a great light for anyone walking or running at >> night, >> camping,biking, hiking, RVing, safety, emergencies or anywhere you >> need a >> flashlight. Ultra Brights have the on/off switch with LED bulb that >> will never burn out, can be seen for over a mile and comes with a >> lifetime warranty, lithium batteries and a key-ring.You can check >> them out at www.photonmicro.com Brad > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com _____ Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: HYPERLINK "http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/"http://groups.yahoo.com/group/o rigamiboats/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HYPERLINK "mailto:origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe"origami boats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the HYPERLINK "http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/"Yahoo! Terms of Service. -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.8.2 - Release Date: 28/01/2005 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.8.2 - Release Date: 28/01/2005 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 6741|6644|2005-02-01 08:09:57|Puck III|Re: SeaBull3 design - Lovesail :-)|Hi Colin , I found it ! find some good Links in there like : software for DeckOfficers & Chiefs.............. http://lovesail.blue-compass.com/ Enjoy and gime some feedback . Oui M'sieu cétou :-) for now........ Old Ben --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III" wrote: > > Hi Colin , thanks for the positive comment :-) > A pretty Belgian with Cape Verdian origins . > All International Crew needs proper training . > See CDI seamansbook , CDIb and CDIc files in the > Folder " International Crews " in the > Seabull3 Files to find some of the available > crew(s) maritime credentials . > In need of a good cook , to hold your tiller in > in heavy weather , or bring you home in case of > sudden hartfailure . Just make contact with > the " Lonely Skipper Crew Agency " :-) , I 'l see > if I find the WebLink for the realy interested . > > Naughty Old Ben > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "sae140" > wrote: > > > > Just want to comment that the Tatiana (SeaBull3 site) is a very > nice > > looking craft - just wondering how she would handle with a firm > hand > > on the tiller if the going got rough ? Colin | 6742|6742|2005-02-01 08:17:18|Puck III|Great Little Canadian Twinkeeler Photos|http://earth.prohosting.com/genv8/ He and She can be found online if you know where to look Great sailors , fine people . He placed some great Rendering in the Rhino Gallerie have a look if interested . Old Ben| 6743|6742|2005-02-01 08:50:37|Puck III|Cormorant & Otter|Geneviève s' Dad sailed a Max Gunning designed boat . What a small world :-) I found a nice Link in "double ended Origami pattern " in Files . Young Ben from benandbernie2OOO has the http://www.alcyone-archive.org/ Link in his Yahoo profile about Gunning designed steel gunkholers :-) If you want the info on the Junk rigged Cormorant just ask for it , she looks great to me anyway . Old Ben --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III" wrote: > > http://earth.prohosting.com/genv8/ > He and She can be found online if you know where to look > Great sailors , fine people . > He placed some great Rendering in the Rhino Gallerie > have a look if interested . > > Old Ben | 6744|22|2005-02-01 13:55:19|origamiboats@yahoogroups.com|New file uploaded to origamiboats |Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the origamiboats group. File : /Honesty---1.jpg Uploaded by : ben_azo Description : You can access this file at the URL: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/files/Honesty---1.jpg To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit: http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files Regards, ben_azo | 6745|6694|2005-02-01 14:00:22|brentswain38|Re: Boating Lights|There is no better control than using a dry cell for a power source . Despite that they have had a high failure rate.I tend to believe what I see more than what I hear. Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Gary H. Lucas" wrote: > Brent, > This is simply not true. LEDs do produce more light per watt, and they do > last as long as 100,00 hours. They are rapidly replacing all of the street > lights in the US with LEDs as we speak. My brother is an electrical > contractor. He a did a few hundred for the state of NJ just last year. Of > course the assumption here is that the proper engineering is being done. My > suspicion is that the LEDs are being made brighter by driving them at higher > currents, and that is what kills them. I used to build machines with two > LED powered photo sensors. They were expensive so we took one apart to see > how they worked. They had a typical LED, rated around 20 milliamps. They > were being driven at 1 FULL amp! Of course the pulse lasted just 1/100,000 > of a second, and it pulsed 1000 times a second. So the average current was > just 10 milliamps. I am still in contact with customers using those > sensors. Some of them have being running 24/7 for the past 18 years! I put > out some 2000 of them and the failure rate in all that time is just a > handful. Sometimes there is no substitute for GOOD engineering. > > Gary H. Lucas > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "brentswain38" > To: > Sent: Monday, January 31, 2005 3:17 PM > Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Boating Lights > > > > > > > > On my first LED flashlight, bought in November , the eternal LED bulb > > burned out by the following march, despite rare , occasional use. A > > friend bought one with four bulbs in november and two were burned out > > by march. My attempts at LED anchor lights burned out so may LED > > bulbs that I gave up on LED and went back to incandescent, which seem > > to last far longer. LED's are grosly overated and, per watt, produce > > no more candlepower than incandescent bulbs. > > Brent > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "run2excess2000" > > wrote: > >> > >> I hope nobody minds if I recommend a website that carries the Ultra > >> Bright II's that are a great light for anyone walking or running at > >> night, > >> camping,biking, hiking, RVing, safety, emergencies or anywhere you > >> need a > >> flashlight. Ultra Brights have the on/off switch with LED bulb that > >> will never burn out, can be seen for over a mile and comes with a > >> lifetime warranty, lithium batteries and a key-ring.You can check > >> them out at www.photonmicro.com Brad > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > | 6746|6717|2005-02-01 14:07:05|brentswain38|Re: wind generator|The k.I.S.S wind generator is one of the simplist and has high output. Just do a search undr KISS.com or K.I.S.S.com. A fiend who has one swears by it and others envy it. Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Graeme" wrote: > > Some was looking for a cheap wind generator or a permanent magnet motor. > > > > http://www.sustainability.ofm.uwa.edu.au/welcome/dirty_linen > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 6747|6507|2005-02-01 14:09:15|brentswain38|Re: Twin Keel wing and bulb ends|Hitting a gravel beach with a bit of speed on will clean the bottom. A beach made out of grapefruit sized boulders in a well protected cove will allow you accesl to all but a few tiny points of the keel bottoms. Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "bilgekeeldave" wrote: > > I dunno, my Brent Swain 31, twin keeler, always sinks a few inches > into the botton when I ground her for maintenance. I wash away the > mud along side the keels with the pressure washer, but I can't ever > get antifouling on the keel bottoms unless I haul her out in a boat > yard, that has happened about five times in the last 22 years. I am > always exploring shallow creeks, that seems to keep the sea growth > from buiding up on the keel bottoms. Heck If I don't run aground a > few times a year, I'm not sailing it right! > > Dave > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Alex" wrote: > > > > Brent and I were discussing twin keeled BS 36 hulls with keel > bottoms that sit flat on the > > ground, and Brent came up with an idea that painting the bottom of > the flats could be > > accomplished on a drying tide by allowing the keels to settle on a > piece of angle iron. > > There would be only a tiny surface area of the keels flat touching > the steel. The angle iron > > could be braced on the bottom of its triangular section by welding > on some steel to > > prevent the triangle's legs from spreading. The only challenge > would be to get these > > trianglar blocks in the right spot while the tide settles, though > the twin keels do help > > because they are shorter, as well as mounted higher on the hull. > > > > On another note, Brent also mentioned that the bottom of the keels > get heavily polished if > > you let the boat dry out often, so little -- if any -- growth ever > gets ahold of that area. > > Brent's keel bottoms have seen very little attention for over 18 > years and have not > > suffered, so one could surmise that Ted's Keels will fare just as > well. > > > > Maybe I'll get over to England in my twin keeler (heck only a > couple of weeks sail across > > the Atlantic, right?), in which case we can do some tests > comparing my stock boat to Ted's > > wing keels. Who knows, there might be some big surprises and > we'll all be putting the > > Stone keel on future boats! I think getting more lead down low is > bound to have an effect > > on how stiff Ted's boat is under sail, perhaps sailing a little > flatter, which is always a > > bonus. The great thing about these boats is how people can > experiment and innovate, try > > out new ideas, all for pretty much the same cost as doing it "by > the book". It adds an > > element of fun in the equation. > > > > Alex > > > > > Yes, you are right about painting and cleaning and a lot of > work. I > > > first started thinking about keel bulbs/wing tips when you wrote > > > about using old oxy bottles as keel end torpedoes. I inferred > from > > > that idea that you thought a bit of extra weight low down would > be > > > worthwhile. I didn't use old oxy bottles because first I > haven't > > > got any and second because I thought the straight side and bluff > end > > > would create too much drag. I guess I will never know if they > are > > > an improvement. Perhaps when we have finally got her in the > water > > > we can meet and try it out. > > > Regards, > > > Ted | 6748|6694|2005-02-01 15:13:44|carlmbentley|Re: Boating Lights|i read somewhere that this may indeed be true, the brightness issue anyway, due to the way the light ouput was tested or something, wait i'll see if i can find it . . . --> http://www.otherpower.com/otherpower_lighting.html gotta love google -carl - building a 36 in florida s/v Nina II (finally decided on her name) --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Gary H. Lucas" wrote: > Brent, > This is simply not true. LEDs do produce more light per watt, and they do > last as long as 100,00 hours. They are rapidly replacing all of the street > lights in the US with LEDs as we speak. My brother is an electrical > contractor. He a did a few hundred for the state of NJ just last year. Of > course the assumption here is that the proper engineering is being done. My > suspicion is that the LEDs are being made brighter by driving them at higher > currents, and that is what kills them. I used to build machines with two > LED powered photo sensors. They were expensive so we took one apart to see > how they worked. They had a typical LED, rated around 20 milliamps. They > were being driven at 1 FULL amp! Of course the pulse lasted just 1/100,000 > of a second, and it pulsed 1000 times a second. So the average current was > just 10 milliamps. I am still in contact with customers using those > sensors. Some of them have being running 24/7 for the past 18 years! I put > out some 2000 of them and the failure rate in all that time is just a > handful. Sometimes there is no substitute for GOOD engineering. > > Gary H. Lucas > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "brentswain38" > To: > Sent: Monday, January 31, 2005 3:17 PM > Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Boating Lights > > > > > > > > On my first LED flashlight, bought in November , the eternal LED bulb > > burned out by the following march, despite rare , occasional use. A > > friend bought one with four bulbs in november and two were burned out > > by march. My attempts at LED anchor lights burned out so may LED > > bulbs that I gave up on LED and went back to incandescent, which seem > > to last far longer. LED's are grosly overated and, per watt, produce > > no more candlepower than incandescent bulbs. > > Brent > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "run2excess2000" > > wrote: > >> > >> I hope nobody minds if I recommend a website that carries the Ultra > >> Bright II's that are a great light for anyone walking or running at > >> night, > >> camping,biking, hiking, RVing, safety, emergencies or anywhere you > >> need a > >> flashlight. Ultra Brights have the on/off switch with LED bulb that > >> will never burn out, can be seen for over a mile and comes with a > >> lifetime warranty, lithium batteries and a key-ring.You can check > >> them out at www.photonmicro.com Brad | 6749|6749|2005-02-01 15:56:11|carlmbentley|paint questions|anyone know approximately how many gallons of paint i'll need to put one coat on a 36'? and how many coats minimum of each type (epoxy then enamel/antifouling) should i put on ? i found coal tar epoxy "kits" locally for 30$US per gallon, they come with a smaller can of something else as well. is that close enough to a fair price or should i keep looking ? i don't plan on blasting, i'm going to try the ospho stuff and then coal tar epoxy over that, then an enamel, does anyone see any problem with this ?? should i put a primer between my ospho and coal tar ?? -carl - building a 36 in florida| 6750|6717|2005-02-01 16:03:07|tronfixr|Re: wind generator|http://www.kissenergy.com/ Cheers, Mike --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "brentswain38" wrote: > > The k.I.S.S wind generator is one of the simplist and has high > output. Just do a search undr KISS.com or K.I.S.S.com. A fiend who > has one swears by it and others envy it. > Brent > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Graeme" wrote: > > > > Some was looking for a cheap wind generator or a permanent magnet > motor. > > > > > > > > http://www.sustainability.ofm.uwa.edu.au/welcome/dirty_linen > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 6751|22|2005-02-01 19:40:45|origamiboats@yahoogroups.com|New file uploaded to origamiboats |Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the origamiboats group. File : /OrigamiPlyJol1.jpg Uploaded by : pascalibook Description : J. Segger Hamburg Design You can access this file at the URL: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/files/OrigamiPlyJol1.jpg To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit: http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files Regards, pascalibook | 6752|6752|2005-02-01 19:41:38|paulatsnowdrift|brents book|How can I get a copy of "How To Build a Better Steel Boat: A Heretic's Guide". Thanks Paul| 6753|6694|2005-02-01 19:54:58|Gary H. Lucas|Re: Boating Lights|Current, not voltage is the killer. A dry cell can put out huge amounts of current. If the LED isn't self limiting it needs a resistor in series with it. E=IR Ohms law. IF E is 1.5V and I must be less than say 15ma to be safe or 0.020 amps then R = 100 ohms. So a 100 ohm resistor should do the trick. Of course if the light is a lot dimmer then you understand what they are doing. Gary H. Lucas ----- Original Message ----- From: "brentswain38" To: Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2005 2:00 PM Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Boating Lights > > > There is no better control than using a dry cell for a power source . > Despite that they have had a high failure rate.I tend to believe what > I see more than what I hear. > Brent > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Gary H. Lucas" > wrote: >> Brent, >> This is simply not true. LEDs do produce more light per watt, and > they do >> last as long as 100,00 hours. They are rapidly replacing all of > the street >> lights in the US with LEDs as we speak. My brother is an > electrical >> contractor. He a did a few hundred for the state of NJ just last > year. Of >> course the assumption here is that the proper engineering is being > done. My >> suspicion is that the LEDs are being made brighter by driving them > at higher >> currents, and that is what kills them. I used to build machines > with two >> LED powered photo sensors. They were expensive so we took one > apart to see >> how they worked. They had a typical LED, rated around 20 > milliamps. They >> were being driven at 1 FULL amp! Of course the pulse lasted just > 1/100,000 >> of a second, and it pulsed 1000 times a second. So the average > current was >> just 10 milliamps. I am still in contact with customers using > those >> sensors. Some of them have being running 24/7 for the past 18 > years! I put >> out some 2000 of them and the failure rate in all that time is just > a >> handful. Sometimes there is no substitute for GOOD engineering. >> >> Gary H. Lucas >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "brentswain38" >> To: >> Sent: Monday, January 31, 2005 3:17 PM >> Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Boating Lights >> >> >> > >> > >> > On my first LED flashlight, bought in November , the eternal LED > bulb >> > burned out by the following march, despite rare , occasional use. > A >> > friend bought one with four bulbs in november and two were burned > out >> > by march. My attempts at LED anchor lights burned out so may LED >> > bulbs that I gave up on LED and went back to incandescent, which > seem >> > to last far longer. LED's are grosly overated and, per watt, > produce >> > no more candlepower than incandescent bulbs. >> > Brent >> > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "run2excess2000" >> > wrote: >> >> >> >> I hope nobody minds if I recommend a website that carries the > Ultra >> >> Bright II's that are a great light for anyone walking or running > at >> >> night, >> >> camping,biking, hiking, RVing, safety, emergencies or anywhere > you >> >> need a >> >> flashlight. Ultra Brights have the on/off switch with LED bulb > that >> >> will never burn out, can be seen for over a mile and comes with a >> >> lifetime warranty, lithium batteries and a key-ring.You can check >> >> them out at www.photonmicro.com Brad >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com >> > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: >> > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com >> > Yahoo! Groups Links >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > | 6754|6694|2005-02-02 03:33:56|sae140|Re: Boating Lights|I made-up an anchor light from an el cheapo "auto inspection light" a while back. Although the outer protective tube was of fair quality, the end fittings were rubbish, so I made up a custom fitting for one end and used a standard industrial PVC fitting (2 part with O ring - which also houses a cable clamp and sealant) at the other end - both glued in place with PVC cement. I've uploaded scans (sorry, no camera) of these to OrigamiBoats2. The fluorescent tube is 12" nominal, with the overall length being around 21", which is fine for occasional hanging but personally I wouldn't want that wand permanently mounted at the masthead. For a permanent masthead light my preference would probably be for a more compact folded fluorescent, although I haven't done any visibility trials yet. I've uploaded a graphic of one I experimented with last year. It came from a mains (240v) "energy-saver" light bulb which had burned out. The electronic gubbins were carefully removed, leaving just the folded tube with 4 wires attached - 2 to each of the filaments at each end. If you look at the graphic *very* carefully you can just make out the darkening at one end where the filament had burnt out. However, some fluoro inverters use 3 wires (heating one end only), and some only use 2 wires (triggering the tube cold), so this tube will still work with an inverter, even though one end of the tube is goosed. Thinks - which also means that fluoro tubes could be wired to give 'double life' - i.e. if one end should burn out, the wiring to the tube could simply be reversed (by means of a small sealed relay ?) to give an emergency repair, until such time as it becomes possible to replace the tube. Current drawn by this tube was identical to that of a straight 12" tube: around 0.5A BTW - there are dozens of simple fluoro inverter designs on the web, if you fancy making-up your own. Colin| 6755|6694|2005-02-02 05:59:00|T & D CAIN|Re: Boating Lights|Bill, I suspect that these are configured to use a 110/117 V AC supply, or a 48V + DC supply derived from the AC mains. Hewlett Packard installed trial units in Ca. about 12 years ago, and it seems thing have moved on quite a bit since then. Terry -----Original Message----- From: Bill Jaine [mailto:anacapa@...] Sent: Tuesday, 1 February 2005 22:23 To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [origamiboats] Re: Boating Lights What about the heads in the new traffic lights, would they make good running lights or are they too expensive? Bill Port Hope. Canada -----Original Message----- From: T & D CAIN [mailto:thcain@...] Sent: 1-Feb-05 2:59 AM To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [origamiboats] Re: Boating Lights Actually, most LEDs are designed to be fed by a constant current source, try to forget voltage if you want life in the hundreds of thousands of hours. Older ones usually designed for 20mA. The voltage drop across the LED at its rated current varies depending on the type --- 1.8 up to 3+ --- so you need to know what type you are using. The newer brighter (really bright) vary in the current required for the light output and to maintain long life. These very bright types are usually run from a "driver" circuit which keeps the current constant (Luxeon in particular) when the voltage may be varying. You can of course feed them quite high currents if the 'on' time is very short as Gary has just said. Don't give up on LEDs, there was an item on Oz News Radio yesterday forecasting complete conversion to this light source in the near? future. Terry -----Original Message----- From: Graeme [mailto:gmit4885@...] Sent: Tuesday, 1 February 2005 11:39 To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [origamiboats] Re: Boating Lights If the voltage is to high they do not last.You need to put in a resistor to bring down the voltage to suit the LED or source 12 volt LEDS there is more on the market now than a few years ago -----Original Message----- From: Gary H. Lucas [mailto:gary.lucas@...] Sent: Tuesday, 1 February 2005 9:30 AM To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [origamiboats] Re: Boating Lights Brent, This is simply not true. LEDs do produce more light per watt, and they do last as long as 100,00 hours. They are rapidly replacing all of the street lights in the US with LEDs as we speak. My brother is an electrical contractor. He a did a few hundred for the state of NJ just last year. Of course the assumption here is that the proper engineering is being done. My suspicion is that the LEDs are being made brighter by driving them at higher currents, and that is what kills them. I used to build machines with two LED powered photo sensors. They were expensive so we took one apart to see how they worked. They had a typical LED, rated around 20 milliamps. They were being driven at 1 FULL amp! Of course the pulse lasted just 1/100,000 of a second, and it pulsed 1000 times a second. So the average current was just 10 milliamps. I am still in contact with customers using those sensors. Some of them have being running 24/7 for the past 18 years! I put out some 2000 of them and the failure rate in all that time is just a handful. Sometimes there is no substitute for GOOD engineering. Gary H. Lucas ----- Original Message ----- From: "brentswain38" To: Sent: Monday, January 31, 2005 3:17 PM Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Boating Lights > > > On my first LED flashlight, bought in November , the eternal LED bulb > burned out by the following march, despite rare , occasional use. A > friend bought one with four bulbs in november and two were burned out > by march. My attempts at LED anchor lights burned out so may LED > bulbs that I gave up on LED and went back to incandescent, which seem > to last far longer. LED's are grosly overated and, per watt, produce > no more candlepower than incandescent bulbs. > Brent > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "run2excess2000" > wrote: >> >> I hope nobody minds if I recommend a website that carries the Ultra >> Bright II's that are a great light for anyone walking or running at >> night, >> camping,biking, hiking, RVing, safety, emergencies or anywhere you >> need a >> flashlight. Ultra Brights have the on/off switch with LED bulb that >> will never burn out, can be seen for over a mile and comes with a >> lifetime warranty, lithium batteries and a key-ring.You can check >> them out at www.photonmicro.com Brad > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com _____ Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: HYPERLINK "http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/"http://groups.yahoo.com/group/o rigamiboats/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HYPERLINK "mailto:origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe"origami boats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the HYPERLINK "http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/"Yahoo! Terms of Service. -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.8.2 - Release Date: 28/01/2005 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.8.2 - Release Date: 28/01/2005 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links | 6756|6694|2005-02-02 09:00:22|..|Re: Boating Lights|Bill, It might be confusing for others vessels with the lights changing from red to green all the time! Cheshire England Geoff What about the heads in the new traffic lights, would they make good running lights or are they too expensive? Bill Port Hope. Canada -----Original Message----- From: T & D CAIN [mailto:thcain@...] Sent: 1-Feb-05 2:59 AM To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [origamiboats] Re: Boating Lights Actually, most LEDs are designed to be fed by a constant current source, try to forget voltage if you want life in the hundreds of thousands of hours. Older ones usually designed for 20mA. The voltage drop across the LED at its rated current varies depending on the type --- 1.8 up to 3+ --- so you need to know what type you are using. The newer brighter (really bright) vary in the current required for the light output and to maintain long life. These very bright types are usually run from a "driver" circuit which keeps the current constant (Luxeon in particular) when the voltage may be varying. You can of course feed them quite high currents if the 'on' time is very short as Gary has just said. Don't give up on LEDs, there was an item on Oz News Radio yesterday forecasting complete conversion to this light source in the near? future. Terry --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.851 / Virus Database: 579 - Release Date: 28/01/2005 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]| 6757|6757|2005-02-02 12:27:48|edward_stoneuk|Inner tube Vents|I went to the tyre shop to scrounge some old tubes for anchor well vents and they told me what I half suspected that nobody uses inner tubes now all tyres are tubeless. Where can one source inner tubes now or are there alternatives? Regards, Ted| 6758|6757|2005-02-02 13:00:34|bilgekeeldave|Re: Inner tube Vents|Yes, they still make innertubes, there are a lot of old sports cars out there with wire wheels. You can't put a tubless tire on a wire wheel without an innertube. Call a few other tire places, or motorcycle shops. What do innertubes have to do with anchor well vents? If you are looking for rubber gasket material, just buy rubber sheet packing at a hardware store. Dave --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "edward_stoneuk" wrote: > > I went to the tyre shop to scrounge some old tubes for anchor well > vents and they told me what I half suspected that nobody uses inner > tubes now all tyres are tubeless. Where can one source inner tubes > now or are there alternatives? > Regards, > Ted | 6759|6736|2005-02-02 13:54:04|Carl Nostrand|Re: progress on boat|Great news Alex, WELD ON!!!!!!!! I sure wish that spring wound show up in Alaska, its be below 0 these last few nights and stormy crisp clear days. Very beautiful, but not productive in a boat building way. Very much looking forward to your technical production. Have you come up with a name for your production? Maybe the group could help in that department. Any idea's for a catch name, for Alex's and Brent's boat building affair. Carl On Jan 31, 2005, at 9:09 PM, Alex wrote: > > > It must be spring! Thanks to no snow and a nice warm spell, Brent and > I worked on the > skeg and keels today, finishing the skeg attachment. I've put a few > snapshots from our > day into the "Alex's" file, showing a few details concerning the > positioning of the skeg, > plus a tip for keeping the skeg from sliding off sideways while > pulling it up. > > The extra bonus to the day was getting some final bits of footage I > need for the > technical film, with only the keel attachment and rudder scenes to > complete the show, plus > some live sailing action (with another boat, not this one yet!). > Maybe we'll get this movie > ready for distribution by the end of February, with luck. I'll keep > all who are interested > posted when the film is ready to go. > > Alex > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > | 6760|6736|2005-02-02 15:29:28|brentswain38|Re: progress on boat|You can do a lot of detail work before building a hull, in a garage ,during an Alaskan winter. Having the bits and pieces done when the hull is together sure speeds up the proccess. Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Carl Nostrand wrote: > Great news Alex, WELD ON!!!!!!!! > > I sure wish that spring wound show up in Alaska, its be below 0 these > last few nights and stormy crisp clear days. Very beautiful, but not > productive in a boat building way. > > Very much looking forward to your technical production. Have you come > up with a name for your production? Maybe the group could help in that > department. Any idea's for a catch name, for Alex's and Brent's boat > building affair. > > Carl > > > On Jan 31, 2005, at 9:09 PM, Alex wrote: > > > > > > > It must be spring! Thanks to no snow and a nice warm spell, Brent and > > I worked on the > > skeg and keels today, finishing the skeg attachment. I've put a few > > snapshots from our > > day into the "Alex's" file, showing a few details concerning the > > positioning of the skeg, > > plus a tip for keeping the skeg from sliding off sideways while > > pulling it up. > > > > The extra bonus to the day was getting some final bits of footage I > > need for the > > technical film, with only the keel attachment and rudder scenes to > > complete the show, plus > > some live sailing action (with another boat, not this one yet!). > > Maybe we'll get this movie > > ready for distribution by the end of February, with luck. I'll keep > > all who are interested > > posted when the film is ready to go. > > > > Alex > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > | 6761|6757|2005-02-02 15:31:50|brentswain38|Re: Inner tube Vents|A foot of innertube over a vent makes a great check valve, giving you a vent that can be left open in a hurricane and will stop a wave from coming in even if you are rolled over.No matter how hard it blows outside , you still need air. Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "bilgekeeldave" wrote: > > Yes, they still make innertubes, there are a lot of old sports cars > out there with wire wheels. You can't put a tubless tire on a wire > wheel without an innertube. Call a few other tire places, or > motorcycle shops. > > What do innertubes have to do with anchor well vents? > > If you are looking for rubber gasket material, just buy rubber sheet > packing at a hardware store. > > Dave > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "edward_stoneuk" > wrote: > > > > I went to the tyre shop to scrounge some old tubes for anchor well > > vents and they told me what I half suspected that nobody uses > inner > > tubes now all tyres are tubeless. Where can one source inner > tubes > > now or are there alternatives? > > Regards, > > Ted | 6762|6752|2005-02-02 15:35:17|brentswain38|Re: brents book|For a copy of my book, please send $20 plus $5 for postage, $10 for overseas airmail postage to 3798 Laurel Dr, Royston BC Canada V0R2V0 Thanks Brent Swain --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "paulatsnowdrift" wrote: > > How can I get a copy of "How To Build a Better Steel Boat: A > Heretic's Guide". Thanks Paul | 6763|6763|2005-02-02 20:59:48|dwightgry|Galley up or down?|All the pictured boats seem to have the galley in the pilothouse, and I am used to powerboats where I could sit at the table and look out at the scenery. One thing when I build would be a preference to have a dining area in the pilothouse. Is there a reason that the galley is usually up? Sailboats in general seem to have the seating down where you can't look out. How about having both the helm and nav station to starboard, and a table to port? What would be the limiting factor on moving the front of the pilothouse a bit more forward? Also, the pilothouse windows seem to be fairly small; could the roof be raised perhaps 6" without affecting balance. (Some of the pictured boats seem to have done this.) The galley would be heavier than seating, especially with stores on board.| 6764|6694|2005-02-02 21:31:28|Bill Jaine|Re: Boating Lights|How would a guy from Cheshire Know, since they never stop for any lights :-) Bill (originally from Herefordshire. England) Port Hope. Canada -----Original Message----- From: .. [mailto:gwpdesign@...] Sent: 2-Feb-05 9:00 AM To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [origamiboats] Re: Boating Lights Bill, It might be confusing for others vessels with the lights changing from red to green all the time! Cheshire England Geoff What about the heads in the new traffic lights, would they make good running lights or are they too expensive? Bill Port Hope. Canada -----Original Message----- From: T & D CAIN [mailto:thcain@...] Sent: 1-Feb-05 2:59 AM To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [origamiboats] Re: Boating Lights Actually, most LEDs are designed to be fed by a constant current source, try to forget voltage if you want life in the hundreds of thousands of hours. Older ones usually designed for 20mA. The voltage drop across the LED at its rated current varies depending on the type --- 1.8 up to 3+ --- so you need to know what type you are using. The newer brighter (really bright) vary in the current required for the light output and to maintain long life. These very bright types are usually run from a "driver" circuit which keeps the current constant (Luxeon in particular) when the voltage may be varying. You can of course feed them quite high currents if the 'on' time is very short as Gary has just said. Don't give up on LEDs, there was an item on Oz News Radio yesterday forecasting complete conversion to this light source in the near? future. Terry --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (HYPERLINK "http://www.grisoft.com)."http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.851 / Virus Database: 579 - Release Date: 28/01/2005 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com _____ Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: HYPERLINK "http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/"http://groups.yahoo.com/group/o rigamiboats/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HYPERLINK "mailto:origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe"origami boats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the HYPERLINK "http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/"Yahoo! Terms of Service. -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.8.2 - Release Date: 28/01/2005 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.8.2 - Release Date: 28/01/2005 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]| 6765|6765|2005-02-02 21:43:14|heshlove30|Plans or ideas for integral centerboard?|Anyone know of any plans or have any ideas for building an integral centerboard, similar to ones used by Alubat and Garcia, into a frameless design, or any design for that matter? Thanks www.garciaaluminum.com www.alubat.com| 6766|6765|2005-02-03 03:13:37|Puck III|Re: Plans or ideas for integral centerboard?|Please be more specific with your question. -Size of boat you have in mind . -Requirements for usage ? area ? range ? -In Aliminum one can presume. -Origami ? -Explain what you see as frameless please. -To be build by who ? where ? -Any specific regulations ? Rgds Old Ben --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "heshlove30" wrote: > > Anyone know of any plans or have any ideas for building an integral > centerboard, similar to ones used by Alubat and Garcia, into a > frameless design, or any design for that matter? Thanks > > www.garciaaluminum.com > www.alubat.com | 6767|6694|2005-02-03 03:48:13|sae140|Re: Boating Lights|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, ".." wrote: > Bill, > It might be confusing for others vessels with the lights changing from red > to > green all the time! > Cheshire > England > Geoff > > What about the heads in the new traffic lights, would they make good running > lights or are they too expensive? > > > > Bill > > Port Hope. Canada Nice one (!) Last year I drove past a traffic light which had been mated by a car, and which had it's innards exposed. The array was 4 dozen or so white LEDs with a coloured filter in front. But - it was the middle of the day and I didn't have any tools with me ...... Colin Boston (the original one), England| 6768|6757|2005-02-03 03:52:49|sae140|Re: Inner tube Vents|Farm tractors, some HGVs etc., still use inner tubes. Can't visualise this vent check valve (bit thick this morning) - any chance of a picture/ sketch ? Colin --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "brentswain38" wrote: > > A foot of innertube over a vent makes a great check valve, giving you > a vent that can be left open in a hurricane and will stop a wave from > coming in even if you are rolled over.No matter how hard it blows > outside , you still need air. > Brent > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "bilgekeeldave" > wrote: > > > > Yes, they still make innertubes, there are a lot of old sports cars > > out there with wire wheels. You can't put a tubless tire on a wire > > wheel without an innertube. Call a few other tire places, or > > motorcycle shops. > > > > What do innertubes have to do with anchor well vents? > > > > If you are looking for rubber gasket material, just buy rubber > sheet > > packing at a hardware store. > > > > Dave > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "edward_stoneuk" > > wrote: > > > > > > I went to the tyre shop to scrounge some old tubes for anchor > well > > > vents and they told me what I half suspected that nobody uses > > inner > > > tubes now all tyres are tubeless. Where can one source inner > > tubes > > > now or are there alternatives? > > > Regards, > > > Ted | 6769|6757|2005-02-03 04:05:37|edward_stoneuk|Re: Inner tube Vents|Colin, If you look at > Photos > 31' Sloop > Companionway hatch then you will see inner tube vents in the back of the pilot house either side of the hatch. Regards, Ted| 6770|6757|2005-02-03 05:08:36|Paul Browne|Re: Inner tube Vents|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "edward_stoneuk" wrote: "If you look at > Photos > 31' Sloop > Companionway hatch then you will see inner tube vents" Ugly as sin, but I bet they work really well!| 6771|22|2005-02-03 10:58:35|origamiboats@yahoogroups.com|New file uploaded to origamiboats |Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the origamiboats group. File : /swing centerboard plan.jpg Uploaded by : heshlove30 Description : Drawing for an integral centerboard You can access this file at the URL: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/files/swing%20centerboard%20plan.jpg To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit: http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files Regards, heshlove30 | 6772|6765|2005-02-03 11:06:48|sam stallings|Re: Plans or ideas for integral centerboard?|I uploaded a file with a drawing for one that Northshore Yachts uses. If you check out Garcia's site at garciaaluinum.com and you'll get a good idea of what I'm after. To answer your other questions. -Frameless being origami -For Caribbean cruising, Bahamas, etc. -For any size cruising boat, Alubat and Gracia are using the concept in anything from 30 on up -Owner built in aluminum Sam --- Puck III wrote: > > Please be more specific with your question. > -Size of boat you have in mind . > -Requirements for usage ? area ? range ? > -In Aliminum one can presume. > -Origami ? > -Explain what you see as frameless please. > -To be build by who ? where ? > -Any specific regulations ? > Rgds > Old Ben > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "heshlove30" > wrote: > > > > Anyone know of any plans or have any ideas for > building an > integral > > centerboard, similar to ones used by Alubat and > Garcia, into a > > frameless design, or any design for that matter? > Thanks > > > > www.garciaaluminum.com > > www.alubat.com > > > > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Easier than ever with enhanced search. Learn more. http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250| 6773|6765|2005-02-03 12:21:33|Gerd|Re: Plans or ideas for integral centerboard?|Check out my site - it not a ballasted board, and there's two of them, but, yes, it's Origami steel ;-) Gerd The Yago Project at http://www.justmueller.com/boats/ --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "heshlove30" wrote: > > Anyone know of any plans or have any ideas for building an integral > centerboard, similar to ones used by Alubat and Garcia, into a > frameless design, or any design for that matter? Thanks > > www.garciaaluminum.com > www.alubat.com | 6774|6694|2005-02-03 13:54:39|..|Re: Boating Lights|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, ".." wrote: > Bill, > It might be confusing for others vessels with the lights changing from red > to > green all the time! > Cheshire > England > Geoff > > What about the heads in the new traffic lights, would they make good running > lights or are they too expensive? > > > > Bill > > Port Hope. Canada Nice one (!) Last year I drove past a traffic light which had been mated by a car, and which had it's innards exposed. The array was 4 dozen or so white LEDs with a coloured filter in front. But - it was the middle of the day and I didn't have any tools with me ...... Colin Boston (the original one), England ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------- Colin, If I hear of traffic lights disappearing I will know who might be responsible..... I think you might have had the same idea as me,recycleling traffic lights as the roads are becoming traffic light hell. Geoff --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.851 / Virus Database: 579 - Release Date: 28/01/2005 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]| 6775|6765|2005-02-03 14:00:07|heshlove30|Re: Plans or ideas for integral centerboard?|I noticed on your site Gerd you mentioned Phillipe Harle, and from what little I know, I agree, French at it's best. If you didn't know allready he designed most of the cool centerboard stuff that Garcia built. I like your plans for daggerboards however I'm turned on by a single, swinging centerboard that retracts into the hull. Nice work on your site and all your plans by the way. --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Gerd" wrote: > > Check out my site - it not a ballasted board, and there's two of > them, but, yes, it's Origami steel ;-) > > Gerd > The Yago Project at http://www.justmueller.com/boats/ > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "heshlove30" > wrote: > > > > Anyone know of any plans or have any ideas for building an integral > > centerboard, similar to ones used by Alubat and Garcia, into a > > frameless design, or any design for that matter? Thanks > > > > www.garciaaluminum.com > > www.alubat.com | 6776|6765|2005-02-03 15:12:59|Gerd|Re: Plans or ideas for integral centerboard?|Yes, the single centerboard is simpler (only one) and of course more commonly accepted. On the downside really only the fact that you intrude on the interior design in the floorspace - usually where you most want it. Another aspect that was always true but is currently being re- discovered (on open racing yachts, because of the bad hydro of canted keels..) is that the daggerboard offers better efficiency, because it is nearer to the vertical when heeled and also further out to leeward in clean, laminar water and not half-covered by the bilges. Same goes for bilge keels btw. All the nice advantages of the integral flat bottoms: take the ground where you wnat, move your lateral center aft by lifting the boards progressively as you turn off the wind while at the same time reducing wetted area, be able to evade and bob away sideways rather than broaching in bad weather and so on. Disadvantages: - for the same boat you get heavvier, because you need more displacement / higher ballast - because you will never really add that much more ballast, you tend to have a slightly lower AVS than on a similar keel-boat. You might have a ballasted board / lifting keel. That works nice in theory, but the mechanics are so shitty that most boats that I know never bother to lift the thing for a quick afternoon beaching ashore, only for longer periods. I know several boats that have stuck keels that were not lifted for years... ;-) still, it's a valid option to have the best of both worlds. - when drying out, one part of the bottom is more difficult to clean than a bilge keeler It's a compromise, but for me it sure works in favor of the lifting keel or board. Having said all that - there is no reason why you could not build a Yago with a single, central pivoting board - and anyway, that has nothing really to do with origami - you can convert most original hard chine of any keel configuration to origami-assembly. The board might even be partially ballasted, in addition to inside ballast. We built several boats like that to a design of my friend Gerard Chaigne. There was a profiled box-type steel board filled with lead, sort of section of circle a bit like the lifting keels you find on the old Trismus and similar. The lifting was done with a solid wire block&tackle led up to the deck through a pipe and there to a simple self-tailing winch. Very simple and straighforward and always worked. Gerd --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "heshlove30" wrote: > > I noticed on your site Gerd you mentioned Phillipe Harle, and from > what little I know, I agree, French at it's best. If you didn't know > allready he designed most of the cool centerboard stuff that Garcia > built. I like your plans for daggerboards however I'm turned on by a > single, swinging centerboard that retracts into the hull. Nice work > on your site and all your plans by the way. > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Gerd" wrote: > > > > Check out my site - it not a ballasted board, and there's two of > > them, but, yes, it's Origami steel ;-) > > > > Gerd > > The Yago Project at http://www.justmueller.com/boats/ > > > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "heshlove30" > > wrote: > > > > > > Anyone know of any plans or have any ideas for building an integral > > > centerboard, similar to ones used by Alubat and Garcia, into a > > > frameless design, or any design for that matter? Thanks > > > > > > www.garciaaluminum.com > > > www.alubat.com | 6777|6765|2005-02-03 15:46:01|Puck III|Re: Plans or ideas for integral centerboard?|Hi Gerd , hi Sam :-) and why not 2 boards instead of one ? Options for all one the same hull , to make everybody happy ? I posted Pics again Gerd :-) Sam , I posted plans & pics of the Alubat Sonate Ovni . Starting small and KISS is just an idea . Many of those boats sail happy in the Carabean , a Roumanian owned had a decend racesucces in the Med , building and selling them made Alubat what it is today . http://www.philippebriand.com designed . Today she would have a wider ass , see the sketch posted and certainly 2 rudders . Origami & Frameless are 2 totaly different things , a boat can be frameless and origami , not all are even if some make that claim :-) Have a look at , you can even rent an Alubat Sonate : http://voilier.puravida.free.fr and for more int pics http://voilier.puravida.free.fr/plan.htm So Sam , once you have setteled on sort of an existing design , someone has to draw it for you in Origami . Gerd could do it , Origamimagic could do it , you could even ask a quote at " MBK " see the posted screendump I posted , where they claim you can skip the architect :-) Personaly I believe it's the architect that designs a boat, not the Computer ( some designs by hand are much prettyer in my eyes than the best rendering ) All relevant pics & plans to this small post are posted in the Photo & Files section , under the name : " Heshlove 30 's project " in : http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats2/ Ownerbuild ? If you are a Pro Welder YES . If your not , hire a Pro Welder for that small amount of time you realy need him and to all the preparations and finishing of yourself . Hope this helps a bit . Old Ben --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Gerd" wrote: > > Yes, the single centerboard is simpler (only one) and of course more > commonly accepted. On the downside really only the fact that you > intrude on the interior design in the floorspace - usually where you > most want it. > > Another aspect that was always true but is currently being re- > discovered (on open racing yachts, because of the bad hydro of > canted keels..) is that the daggerboard offers better efficiency, > because it is nearer to the vertical when heeled and also further > out to leeward in clean, laminar water and not half-covered by the > bilges. Same goes for bilge keels btw. > > All the nice advantages of the integral flat bottoms: take the > ground where you wnat, move your lateral center aft by lifting the > boards progressively as you turn off the wind while at the same time > reducing wetted area, be able to evade and bob away sideways rather > than broaching in bad weather and so on. > > Disadvantages: > - for the same boat you get heavvier, because you need more > displacement / higher ballast > - because you will never really add that much more ballast, you tend > to have a slightly lower AVS than on a similar keel-boat. You might > have a ballasted board / lifting keel. That works nice in theory, > but the mechanics are so shitty that most boats that I know never > bother to lift the thing for a quick afternoon beaching ashore, only > for longer periods. I know several boats that have stuck keels that > were not lifted for years... ;-) still, it's a valid option to have > the best of both worlds. > - when drying out, one part of the bottom is more difficult to clean > than a bilge keeler > > It's a compromise, but for me it sure works in favor of the lifting > keel or board. > > Having said all that - there is no reason why you could not build a > Yago with a single, central pivoting board - and anyway, that has > nothing really to do with origami - you can convert most original > hard chine of any keel configuration to origami-assembly. > > The board might even be partially ballasted, in addition to inside > ballast. We built several boats like that to a design of my friend > Gerard Chaigne. There was a profiled box-type steel board filled > with lead, sort of section of circle a bit like the lifting keels > you find on the old Trismus and similar. The lifting was done with a > solid wire block&tackle led up to the deck through a pipe and there > to a simple self-tailing winch. Very simple and straighforward and > always worked. > > Gerd > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "heshlove30" > wrote: > > > > I noticed on your site Gerd you mentioned Phillipe Harle, and from > > what little I know, I agree, French at it's best. If you didn't > know > > allready he designed most of the cool centerboard stuff that Garcia > > built. I like your plans for daggerboards however I'm turned on > by a > > single, swinging centerboard that retracts into the hull. Nice > work > > on your site and all your plans by the way. > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Gerd" wrote: > > > > > > Check out my site - it not a ballasted board, and there's two of > > > them, but, yes, it's Origami steel ;-) > > > > > > Gerd > > > The Yago Project at http://www.justmueller.com/boats/ > > > > > > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "heshlove30" > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Anyone know of any plans or have any ideas for building an > integral > > > > centerboard, similar to ones used by Alubat and Garcia, into a > > > > frameless design, or any design for that matter? Thanks > > > > > > > > www.garciaaluminum.com > > > > www.alubat.com | 6778|6763|2005-02-03 16:10:15|Puck III|Re: Galley up or down?|Hi , just see my Yahoo profile and follow all the Links , Seabull , 2 & 3 and see you can do what you realy want , some good Pics always help :-) Just imagine if the layout will work as well under heel . What size of boat you have in mind ? Old Ben --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "dwightgry" wrote: > > All the pictured boats seem to have the galley in the pilothouse, > and I am used to powerboats where I could sit at the table and look > out at the scenery. One thing when I build would be a preference to > have a dining area in the pilothouse. Is there a reason that the > galley is usually up? Sailboats in general seem to have the seating > down where you can't look out. How about having both the helm and > nav station to starboard, and a table to port? What would be the > limiting factor on moving the front of the pilothouse a bit more > forward? Also, the pilothouse windows seem to be fairly small; could > the roof be raised perhaps 6" without affecting balance. (Some of > the pictured boats seem to have done this.) The galley would be > heavier than seating, especially with stores on board. | 6779|6763|2005-02-03 18:50:56|brentswain38|Re: Galley up or down?|Being a singlehander I prefer to be able to see where I'm going while cooking a meal in the wheelhouse. The sink also drains better from that much higher above the waterline. We all end up singlehanding sometimes eventually. Raising the wheelhouse makes the area under the sidedeck closer to the countertop and thus less useable the higher the wheelhouse is. Scott and Freddie solved this problem by dropping the galley floor a few inches in front of the counter, a brilliant solution. Raising the wheelhouse can limit your visibility from the cockpit seats and definitly increases windage . Biggger windows make it very easy for a thief to break into your boat, sacrificing one of the advantages of a metal boat with metal hatches. Some people like to put the dinghy ahead of the pilothouse on one side . This limits either the length of the pilothouse or the dinghy. Others put the dinghy over the anchorwinch which makes the winch a bit harder to use in a hurry, but lets you leave your forehatch open in a rainstorm. Decisions decisions. If all else fails, follow the plans. Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "dwightgry" wrote: > > All the pictured boats seem to have the galley in the pilothouse, > and I am used to powerboats where I could sit at the table and look > out at the scenery. One thing when I build would be a preference to > have a dining area in the pilothouse. Is there a reason that the > galley is usually up? Sailboats in general seem to have the seating > down where you can't look out. How about having both the helm and > nav station to starboard, and a table to port? What would be the > limiting factor on moving the front of the pilothouse a bit more > forward? Also, the pilothouse windows seem to be fairly small; could > the roof be raised perhaps 6" without affecting balance. (Some of > the pictured boats seem to have done this.) The galley would be > heavier than seating, especially with stores on board. | 6780|6757|2005-02-03 18:56:16|brentswain38|Re: Inner tube Vents|Green water comming in is even uglier. A round the world hopeful left Juan de Fuca , was knocked down by a squall off the Washington coast and sunk from water pouring in thru the vents, but he was probably too trendy to be caught dead with them on his boat. Instead he was almost caught dead for lack of them.Better dead that out of fashion? Style over substance taken to extremes? Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Browne" wrote: > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "edward_stoneuk" > wrote: > "If you look at > Photos > 31' Sloop > Companionway hatch then you > will see inner tube vents" > > > Ugly as sin, but I bet they work really well! | 6781|22|2005-02-03 19:16:47|origamiboats@yahoogroups.com|New file uploaded to origamiboats |Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the origamiboats group. File : /Copie de COQUE DESSOUS COUL.jpg Uploaded by : ben_azo Description : monocat by P. Renaudeau You can access this file at the URL: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/files/Copie%20de%20COQUE%20DESSOUS%20COUL.jpg To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit: http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files Regards, ben_azo | 6782|6782|2005-02-03 20:42:58|Puck III|Alu Centerborder Sonate Fanclub|http://monsite.wanadoo.fr/ovni28 with links to the Dutch & UK owners club ( Alubat ) you will also find a pic of the 25 ( first Alubat ) in there for the hulllenght see the plans & info| 6783|6763|2005-02-03 21:50:19|dwightgry|Re: Galley up or down?|Nothings ever real easy, is it? I guess if I put all the different features in a boat that I would want it would look like a two-story house and sail like one too! What you say of course makes good sense, but I still miss the thought of sitting in the pilothouse looking out while at anchor. Tried and proven methods are the safest, but small deviations into personal expressions make the spice of life, as long as they are so peculiar as to have a large negative impact on the functionality of the whole project. How big is the pilothouse anyway? (I am just now sending away for the book.) A steel bar in the middle of a larger window would stop someone from getting in, but would distract more than please. Does anyone carry the dinghy on davits, or some other sort of transport on the stern? Or would that location conflict too much with the rudder. I would be thinking of a 36 twin keeler; not only would I get a safer boat than any I could buy, I would be able by building to do more customizing of the equipment and layout. I have been watching this website for about two years, but just now have seen my affairs come into enough of the order I need to start pursuing a dream. Maybe if one could just add a little length to the pilothouse, there could be room for a swivel chair at the helm that could also be used at a small nav/dining table, and maybe even add an extra jump seat for when I have company. How about the advantage of a pilot berth in the pilothouse when singlehanding? Where do people sleep underway? Thanks to all. Dwight --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "brentswain38" wrote: > > Being a singlehander I prefer to be able to see where I'm going while > cooking a meal in the wheelhouse. The sink also drains better from > that much higher above the waterline. We all end up singlehanding > sometimes eventually. > Raising the wheelhouse makes the area under the sidedeck closer to > the countertop and thus less useable the higher the wheelhouse is. > Scott and Freddie solved this problem by dropping the galley floor a > few inches in front of the counter, a brilliant solution. > Raising the wheelhouse can limit your visibility from the cockpit > seats and definitly increases windage . Biggger windows make it very > easy for a thief to break into your boat, sacrificing one of the > advantages of a metal boat with metal hatches. > Some people like to put the dinghy ahead of the pilothouse on one > side . This limits either the length of the pilothouse or the dinghy. > Others put the dinghy over the anchorwinch which makes the winch a > bit harder to use in a hurry, but lets you leave your forehatch open > in a rainstorm. > Decisions decisions. If all else fails, follow the plans. > Brent > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "dwightgry" > wrote: > > > > All the pictured boats seem to have the galley in the pilothouse, > > and I am used to powerboats where I could sit at the table and look > > out at the scenery. One thing when I build would be a preference > to > > have a dining area in the pilothouse. Is there a reason that the > > galley is usually up? Sailboats in general seem to have the > seating > > down where you can't look out. How about having both the helm and > > nav station to starboard, and a table to port? What would be the > > limiting factor on moving the front of the pilothouse a bit more > > forward? Also, the pilothouse windows seem to be fairly small; > could > > the roof be raised perhaps 6" without affecting balance. (Some of > > the pictured boats seem to have done this.) The galley would be > > heavier than seating, especially with stores on board. | 6784|6763|2005-02-03 21:53:14|dwightgry|Re: Galley up or down?|Hi Ben. Thinking of a BS36 twin keeler. Will have a look at the pictures soon, thanks. Dwight --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III" wrote: > > Hi , just see my Yahoo profile and follow all the Links , > Seabull , 2 & 3 and see you can do what you realy > want , some good Pics always help :-) > Just imagine if the layout will work as well under heel . > What size of boat you have in mind ? > Old Ben > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "dwightgry" > wrote: > > > > All the pictured boats seem to have the galley in the pilothouse, > > and I am used to powerboats where I could sit at the table and > look > > out at the scenery. One thing when I build would be a > preference to > > have a dining area in the pilothouse. Is there a reason that the > > galley is usually up? Sailboats in general seem to have the > seating > > down where you can't look out. How about having both the > helm and > > nav station to starboard, and a table to port? What would be > the > > limiting factor on moving the front of the pilothouse a bit more > > forward? Also, the pilothouse windows seem to be fairly small; > could > > the roof be raised perhaps 6" without affecting balance. (Some > of > > the pictured boats seem to have done this.) The galley would > be > > heavier than seating, especially with stores on board. | 6785|6763|2005-02-04 11:54:58|sae140|Novel wheelhouse idea|I've just uploaded to OrigamiBoats2 a graphic of a proposed Kingfisher 36 showing a novel full-width slide-forward hatch arrangement which, together with a rear cabin would provide either the full weather protection of a wheelhouse, or the 100% fresh air of a cockpit, depending on circumstances/ requirements. The K36 was never put into production, nor (afaik) was a prototype ever built. Still, an interesting idea ? Colin| 6786|6786|2005-02-04 19:19:08|Puck III|Dwight's 36ft project|Hi Dwight, just a possible and interesting option would be to build a 36' with no difficulties to see over the wheelhouse , would you not rather oversee the cockpit from the wheelhouse . http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats2/ has a new Folder : " Dwight's 36ft project :-) the 36 is a popular model in here and it's a big boat I posted 3 doublepics to - compare the 36' layout with the Gulf32 see also : http://tinyurl.com/469yy http://tinyurl.com/4nwqs http://tinyurl.com/6qmyu - an afthwheelhouse with centercocpit - bêtes shows a 33ft with an afthcabinwheelhouse with a centercocpit Just exploring some ideas :-) and as always : 1 pic or sketch can outperform a lot of talk . Old Ben| 6787|6765|2005-02-05 05:14:33|Gerd|Re: Plans or ideas for integral centerboard?|> you could even ask a quote at " MBK " see the posted > screendump I posted , Who is that, Old Ben? you have a web-address? can't seem to find anything... > Personaly I believe it's the architect that designs a boat, > not the Computer ( some designs by hand are much > prettyer in my eyes than the best rendering ) Actually I find that really it is very much in my head that I design. I start off with pen and paper, much faster and more flexible than the computer to get the first lines and proportions down, and when you want to correct it or play around with alternatives you just draw another line... It's also pleasant work because of the physical reality of the pen and the paper, something I don't get a lot of in my work. After that, as soon as shape, style and proportions are fixed, i transfer to computer because although I know how to do the calculations myself, it's really much faster and more precise. Even when doing calcs on paper, we all use a calculator, don't we ? ;-) It's like astro navigation - we should always have a sextant and practise how to use it just in case, but for real nav I'm very happy about dirt cheap GPS. Then, because I have very little time for working on it, I find that I can work more and more easily in my head while I am supposed to be doing other things, driving, sitting in boring meetings, listening to my boss.. ;-) I have all the lines in my head and in the evening I just go back to my machine and push some NURBS around and bingo.. CAD is a big help for sure. After that, building more detailed 3d models that will render nicely is a lot of additional work, but then other people build scale models, same sort of thing, bit of a hobby really while you wait that you can get your hands on steel again ;-) BTW, talking about origamimagic - where is our Greg? havn't heard from him for some time. Gerd The Yago Project at http://www.justmueller.com/boats/| 6788|6788|2005-02-05 12:28:40|Alex|Kingfisher-style 36 footer|The builders in Kelowna are working on a Kingfisher-style boat, 36 feet long: http://www.boatbuilding.ws/SailPlan.htm They are also currently building a 37' aluminum motor-cruiser type using the origami techniques: for graphics http://www.boatbuilding.ws/Power%20Cuisers.htm photo and graphics http://www.origamimagic.com/Design/Rosy37/rosy_37.htm Alex| 6789|6763|2005-02-05 13:51:20|brentswain38|Re: Galley up or down?|I sit and have breakfast at the steering seat in the pilot house. I have a stool in the galley which could be raised to see out the windows by any crew I may have .The pilot house is usually 6 ft long, which has proven long enough. Some people have put the dinghy on Davits. It means a bit more weight in the stern and it's vulnerable to collisions in the noght by fishboats if you tie up at government docks, but they could be made simple and removeable.With the windvane in place it hangs a long way out there, not suitable for deepsea. Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "dwightgry" wrote: > > Nothings ever real easy, is it? I guess if I put all the different > features in a boat that I would want it would look like a two-story > house and sail like one too! What you say of course makes good > sense, but I still miss the thought of sitting in the pilothouse > looking out while at anchor. Tried and proven methods are the > safest, but small deviations into personal expressions make the > spice of life, as long as they are so peculiar as to have a large > negative impact on the functionality of the whole project. How big > is the pilothouse anyway? (I am just now sending away for the > book.) A steel bar in the middle of a larger window would stop > someone from getting in, but would distract more than please. Does > anyone carry the dinghy on davits, or some other sort of transport > on the stern? Or would that location conflict too much with the > rudder. I would be thinking of a 36 twin keeler; not only would I > get a safer boat than any I could buy, I would be able by building > to do more customizing of the equipment and layout. I have been > watching this website for about two years, but just now have seen my > affairs come into enough of the order I need to start pursuing a > dream. Maybe if one could just add a little length to the > pilothouse, there could be room for a swivel chair at the helm that > could also be used at a small nav/dining table, and maybe even add > an extra jump seat for when I have company. How about the advantage > of a pilot berth in the pilothouse when singlehanding? Where do > people sleep underway? Thanks to all. Dwight > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "brentswain38" > wrote: > > > > Being a singlehander I prefer to be able to see where I'm going > while > > cooking a meal in the wheelhouse. The sink also drains better from > > that much higher above the waterline. We all end up singlehanding > > sometimes eventually. > > Raising the wheelhouse makes the area under the sidedeck closer > to > > the countertop and thus less useable the higher the wheelhouse is. > > Scott and Freddie solved this problem by dropping the galley floor > a > > few inches in front of the counter, a brilliant solution. > > Raising the wheelhouse can limit your visibility from the cockpit > > seats and definitly increases windage . Biggger windows make it > very > > easy for a thief to break into your boat, sacrificing one of the > > advantages of a metal boat with metal hatches. > > Some people like to put the dinghy ahead of the pilothouse on one > > side . This limits either the length of the pilothouse or the > dinghy. > > Others put the dinghy over the anchorwinch which makes the winch > a > > bit harder to use in a hurry, but lets you leave your forehatch > open > > in a rainstorm. > > Decisions decisions. If all else fails, follow the plans. > > Brent > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "dwightgry" > > wrote: > > > > > > All the pictured boats seem to have the galley in the > pilothouse, > > > and I am used to powerboats where I could sit at the table and > look > > > out at the scenery. One thing when I build would be a > preference > > to > > > have a dining area in the pilothouse. Is there a reason that > the > > > galley is usually up? Sailboats in general seem to have the > > seating > > > down where you can't look out. How about having both the helm > and > > > nav station to starboard, and a table to port? What would be > the > > > limiting factor on moving the front of the pilothouse a bit more > > > forward? Also, the pilothouse windows seem to be fairly small; > > could > > > the roof be raised perhaps 6" without affecting balance. (Some > of > > > the pictured boats seem to have done this.) The galley would be > > > heavier than seating, especially with stores on board. | 6790|6790|2005-02-05 14:25:21|Bill Jaine|Grinding wheels|Princess Auto have a sale on grinding wheels this month Bill Port Hope. Canada -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.8.4 - Release Date: 01/02/2005 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]| 6791|6791|2005-02-05 17:46:36|brentswain38|Depth sounder transducers|I found that if you leave the cable on a transom mount trasducer exposed, wave action will flex break down the wires in it from metal fatigue, They should be supported , possibly by putting a plastic tube over them to welll above the waterline. One client has his on his rudder. Luckily he doesn't sail full time, or the movement of the rudder would have broken it down long ago. I just had my swecond Hummingbird depthsounder break down in a couple of days. Eagle depthosounders weren't much better. Altho I've found Garmin's warrantee to be not worth much, when their stuff does work it works well and if I buy it from Canadian tire , they have thier own warrantee. Unlike Steveston Hardware they tend to honour their warrantee. Brent| 6792|6765|2005-02-06 01:17:17|Puck III|Re: Plans or ideas for integral centerboard?|Hi Gerd , let me take you on a reversed discovery tour :-) A http://tinyurl.com/5hamv B http://tinyurl.com/53o5g great pics & more coming soon The Alaskan 275 what's a Kit Who are we agents for ? We offer......with decades of experience in the designdept C http://www.boatbuilding.ws/Power%20Boats.htm 27ft Aluminum cabin cruiser D MBKsale.jpg in the " Hershlove30' project " Folder in Files in Origamiboats2 who's flirting with who ? :-) Just 1 personal tought : How to reduce building time ??? SIMPLE : reduce the number of parts to assemble to a minimum how? with a fine simple design and that aint that simple :-) Old Ben --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Gerd" wrote: > > > > you could even ask a quote at " MBK " see the posted > > screendump I posted , > > Who is that, Old Ben? you have a web-address? can't seem to find > anything... > > > Personaly I believe it's the architect that designs a boat, > > not the Computer ( some designs by hand are much > > prettyer in my eyes than the best rendering ) > > Actually I find that really it is very much in my head that I > design. I start off with pen and paper, much faster and more > flexible than the computer to get the first lines and proportions > down, and when you want to correct it or play around with > alternatives you just draw another line... It's also pleasant work > After that, building more detailed 3d models that will render nicely > is a lot of additional work, but then other people build scale > models, same sort of thing, bit of a hobby really while you wait > that you can get your hands on steel again ;-) > > BTW, talking about origamimagic - where is our Greg? havn't heard > from him for some time. > > Gerd > The Yago Project at http://www.justmueller.com/boats/ | 6793|6793|2005-02-06 03:26:06|Puck III|Warning the Suicide Squad :-)|Scaring & warning people seems to have been from all times:-) I posted the tiny Spray Link in my previous post : http://tinyurl.com/5hamv so I could not resist posting Hanna on Spray in the File " 36ft double ender " in Boatdesign2 , a must read for the not so cautious :-) Who the hell is Hanna ? Next post please. Old Ben| 6794|6794|2005-02-06 03:48:13|Puck III|John G. Hanna and his Yacht Designs|is a great book : " A Ketch called Tahiti " by John Stephen Doherty I posted two plans about the big Tahiti called Carol a sailplan with measurements & an accomodation plan of that famous boat , in the Folder " 36ft double ender " in the files of Boatdesign2 Does this post belong in an Origami Group ? I sure think so , cause one of our co-members http://www.tantonyachts.com in earlier times designed Pen Gwyn for steel amateurbuilding sure with the Tahiti in mind :-) and what do we find in the Files ? Whitehead the 36ft Origami for steelconstruction. I rather let YM Tanton talk himself about his work and if I have some questions : I 'd love to have the specs especialy draft , cause some people like to sail the swatchways . Did he ever considered a kit for building in thick Aluminum ? I hope the author reads this post , that 36ft origami boat sure has my special attention cause I think it can be turned into a fine liveaboard cruiser . Curious Old Ben| 6795|6765|2005-02-06 04:19:38|Gerd|Re: Plans or ideas for integral centerboard?|Got it Ben, MBK for metelboatskit.com... Thanks ;-) Gerd --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III" wrote: > > Hi Gerd , let me take you on a reversed discovery tour :-) > A http://tinyurl.com/5hamv > B http://tinyurl.com/53o5g great pics & more coming soon > The Alaskan 275 what's a Kit > Who are we agents for ? > We offer......with decades of experience in the designdept > C http://www.boatbuilding.ws/Power%20Boats.htm > 27ft Aluminum cabin cruiser > D MBKsale.jpg in the " Hershlove30' project " Folder in Files in > Origamiboats2 > who's flirting with who ? :-) > > Just 1 personal tought : How to reduce building time ??? > SIMPLE : reduce the number of parts to assemble to a minimum > how? with a fine simple design and that aint that simple :-) > > Old Ben > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Gerd" > wrote: > > > > > > > you could even ask a quote at " MBK " see the posted > > > screendump I posted , > > > > Who is that, Old Ben? you have a web-address? can't seem to > find > > anything... > > > > > Personaly I believe it's the architect that designs a boat, > > > not the Computer ( some designs by hand are much > > > prettyer in my eyes than the best rendering ) > > > > Actually I find that really it is very much in my head that I > > design. I start off with pen and paper, much faster and more > > flexible than the computer to get the first lines and proportions > > down, and when you want to correct it or play around with > > alternatives you just draw another line... It's also pleasant work > > > After that, building more detailed 3d models that will render > nicely > > is a lot of additional work, but then other people build scale > > models, same sort of thing, bit of a hobby really while you wait > > that you can get your hands on steel again ;-) > > > > BTW, talking about origamimagic - where is our Greg? havn't > heard > > from him for some time. > > > > Gerd > > The Yago Project at http://www.justmueller.com/boats/ | 6796|6796|2005-02-06 05:02:23|Alex|cutting of keel holes|Well we took that point of no return today and cut the slots for the twin keels, which should explain the cover photo on the group's home page (That's Brent inside, blasting a hole through with the oxy- propane cutting torch). It was pretty straightforward, a few simple measurements from centreline, a few measurements across on the inside, a measurement on each side from the bow 16 feet back to the leading edge of the keels, drawing of the shapes of the tops of the keels on the inside, and the cutting began. Kind of disconcerting to punch holes in what was nearly a water-tight hull, but obviously it had to be done! On Sunday (tomorrow) we'll pull the keels over to the boat and push their tops up through the hull and weld in place. A word of advice and safety caution: It may sound obvious, but when raising the boat with a jack which is on top of a wood block, position your support block under your jack in the same direction you see in the photo, athwartships (the wood is aft of the jack in that photo, but I used another under the jack in order to gain height), ie, across the width of the boat. The entire forward end of the boat is resting on it while you raise, and the hull can sideshift too easily if the block is positioned fore and aft, allowing the block to roll over(yes, this happened to me). The resulting effect otherwise could ruin your whole day (and many more after). It also helps to put the block and jack on a piece of steel to make a wider footprint and provide actual lift instead of just pushing your block deep into the ground causing a block-shaped bulge to appear in the dirt on the other side of the planet. Alex| 6797|6797|2005-02-06 05:05:16|Alex|cover photos|If anyone has photos of their current origamiboat project, please do send me a copy which I can post as the cover photo. You must all surely be tired of endless photos of my boat in various stages of completion, and we should have some variety. I'd like to feature other boats too, so send some pictures so we can admire your handiwork. Alex| 6798|6798|2005-02-06 07:33:20|c4t4m4r4n|Origami Catamaran|Hello & Greetings to the group! I am a bit of a dreamer and I have this idea to build a large cruising catamran. I really like the origami method, it's so clever & simple. I fancy something about 12 metres long with lots of liveaboard space. Ideas also include electric propulsion & maybe a simple sail rig. Power generated by large windmills and flexible joints between the hulls to provide additional battery charging. I will post Some sketches to show what I mean. Does this arouse any interest? Who will design my hulls? Regards Nigel| 6799|6763|2005-02-06 08:06:33|Puck III|Re: Novel wheelhouse idea|Hi Colin , the posted pic & proposed system aint that clear to me I posted another " sliding roof " near your pic . Does the system has a remote resemblance with what you posted ? Do you have more info ? I hope you found the pics & plans posted in the new files in Origamiboats2 interesting and selfexplaining enough to see the centercockpit certainly is worth exploring as a worthy option . I sailed " La Bête " and there was no interior steering position, great fun to see and stay in contact with the other crew while cooking and at the same time see what was comming over the horizon. She sure was an innovation in the 60thies , I sure see the possibilities of such an arrangement . I found something similar in Jay Benford's books : the Benford 34' 6' Cutter and the Bakea 30 ( 25 yeah 25 : rig , interior , profile , keel and material options all done starting with the same basic hullform , and even then Jay writes : if you can't find just the right combination we can always create another one.... the 30 ketch motorsailor with her hughe trawlerlike decksaloon seems to be one of the favorites . She has a stunning profile for such a small boat :-) I hope you know the boats , cause the options proposed on the 30ft only ; gives you an idea about what can be done on the same hullform :-) Rgds Old Ben PS:Hi Gerd , I hope you read this to , cause I wanne convert you into " leave all options open " as naughty old Ben usualy does with da ladies :-) but that's another chapter :-) --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "sae140" wrote: > > I've just uploaded to OrigamiBoats2 a graphic of a proposed > Kingfisher 36 showing a novel full-width slide-forward hatch > arrangement which, together with a rear cabin would provide either > the full weather protection of a wheelhouse, or the 100% fresh air of > a cockpit, depending on circumstances/ requirements. > > The K36 was never put into production, nor (afaik) was a prototype > ever built. Still, an interesting idea ? > > Colin | 6800|6798|2005-02-06 08:14:26|Puck III|Re: Origami Catamaran|Hi Nigel , please post the pics , you made me SOOO curious. especialy the c4t4m4r4n Catamran seems rather intriging :-) Curious Old Ben --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "c4t4m4r4n" wrote: > > Hello & Greetings to the group! > > I am a bit of a dreamer and I have this idea to build a large cruising > catamran. I really like the origami method, it's so clever & simple. > I fancy something about 12 metres long with lots of liveaboard space. > Ideas also include electric propulsion & maybe a simple sail rig. > Power generated by large windmills and flexible joints between the > hulls to provide additional battery charging. I will post Some > sketches to show what I mean. > > Does this arouse any interest? Who will design my hulls? > > Regards > > Nigel | 6801|6797|2005-02-06 08:31:15|Puck III|Re: cover photos|Hi Alex , sure I am not tired to see your interesting pics , Just tired waiting to have your video. Count me in for a copy . Where do I wire the money to ? And how much for delivery to Belgium all included ? Hope you take payment via Western Union . Impatient Old Ben --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Alex" wrote: > > If anyone has photos of their current origamiboat project, please do > send me a copy which I can post as the cover photo. You must all > surely be tired of endless photos of my boat in various stages of > completion, and we should have some variety. I'd like to feature > other boats too, so send some pictures so we can admire your > handiwork. > > Alex | 6802|22|2005-02-06 08:48:35|origamiboats@yahoogroups.com|New file uploaded to origamiboats |Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the origamiboats group. File : /OrigamiChat.jpg Uploaded by : ben_azo Description : that function realy works :-) You can access this file at the URL: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/files/OrigamiChat.jpg To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit: http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files Regards, ben_azo | 6803|6797|2005-02-06 13:08:43|Paul Liebenberg|Re: cover photos|Hi Alex, Glad to hear things are going well for you. Sign me up for a copy of the video. I also have some footage of Harvey's boat going together. Paul 336-2271 ----- Original Message ----- From: Alex Date: Sunday, February 6, 2005 2:05 am Subject: [origamiboats] cover photos > > > If anyone has photos of their current origamiboat project, please > do > send me a copy which I can post as the cover photo. You must all > surely be tired of endless photos of my boat in various stages of > completion, and we should have some variety. I'd like to feature > other boats too, so send some pictures so we can admire your > handiwork. > > Alex [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 6804|6798|2005-02-06 14:34:06|Carl Nostrand|Re: Origami Catamaran|Sounds politically correct! Not sure if I understand your power generation system with the flexible hull. Keep up the dreaming and tell us more please. WU Li WA Carl On Feb 6, 2005, at 3:32 AM, c4t4m4r4n wrote: > > > Hello & Greetings to the group! > > I am a bit of a dreamer and I have this idea to build a large cruising > catamran. I really like the origami method, it's so clever & simple. > I fancy something about 12 metres long with lots of liveaboard space. > Ideas also include electric propulsion & maybe a simple sail rig. > Power generated by large windmills and flexible joints between the > hulls to provide additional battery charging. I will post Some > sketches to show what I mean. > > Does this arouse any interest? Who will design my hulls? > > Regards > > Nigel > > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > | 6805|6765|2005-02-06 14:58:59|Carl Nostrand|Re: Plans or ideas for integral centerboard?|I really like MBK Alaskan 275 design for a comfortable all round coastal blaster. I'm not a big fan of the trend in this part of Alaska, to over build out-board powered pilot house 30 footers. Some time with twin 250 hp gas out-boards. They load the boats up with electronics and commercial and sport fishing equipment and drain there batteries because there 35-40 amp ALT's can't keep up while there trolling around. THose big HP out-boards don't last much more than 1500 hours, powering around a big heavy skiff. Inboard Diesel makes allot of economic sense. BIg heavy duty alternators , real hydraulic systems, no gas! and a clean stern. I like MBK's building jig system for there skiff. Thanks OLD BEN, Carl Homer Alaska On Feb 6, 2005, at 12:19 AM, Gerd wrote: > > > Got it Ben, MBK for metelboatskit.com... Thanks ;-) > Gerd > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III" wrote: >> >> Hi Gerd , let me take you on a reversed discovery tour :-) >> A http://tinyurl.com/5hamv >> B http://tinyurl.com/53o5g great pics & more coming soon >> The Alaskan 275 what's a Kit >> Who are we agents for ? >> We offer......with decades of experience in the designdept >> C http://www.boatbuilding.ws/Power%20Boats.htm >> 27ft Aluminum cabin cruiser >> D MBKsale.jpg in the " Hershlove30' project " Folder in Files in >> Origamiboats2 >> who's flirting with who ? :-) >> >> Just 1 personal tought : How to reduce building time ??? >> SIMPLE : reduce the number of parts to assemble to a minimum >> how? with a fine simple design and that aint that simple :-) >> >> Old Ben >> >> --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Gerd" >> wrote: >>> >>> >>>> you could even ask a quote at " MBK " see the posted >>>> screendump I posted , >>> >>> Who is that, Old Ben? you have a web-address? can't seem to >> find >>> anything... >>> >>>> Personaly I believe it's the architect that designs a boat, >>>> not the Computer ( some designs by hand are much >>>> prettyer in my eyes than the best rendering ) >>> >>> Actually I find that really it is very much in my head that I >>> design. I start off with pen and paper, much faster and more >>> flexible than the computer to get the first lines and > proportions >>> down, and when you want to correct it or play around with >>> alternatives you just draw another line... It's also pleasant > work >> >>> After that, building more detailed 3d models that will render >> nicely >>> is a lot of additional work, but then other people build scale >>> models, same sort of thing, bit of a hobby really while you wait >>> that you can get your hands on steel again ;-) >>> >>> BTW, talking about origamimagic - where is our Greg? havn't >> heard >>> from him for some time. >>> >>> Gerd >>> The Yago Project at http://www.justmueller.com/boats/ > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > | 6806|6796|2005-02-06 23:58:53|put_to_sea|Re: cutting of keel holes|> Kind of disconcerting to > punch holes in what was nearly a water-tight hull, but obviously it > had to be done! On Sunday (tomorrow) we'll pull the keels over to > the boat and push their tops up through the hull and weld in place. > I have been wondering about the process of pulling the keels up through the holes in the hull and have been waiting for the video for the answer. How do you get the keel tops through holes in the hull and still have snug fit when in position since the top of the keel is bigger than the bottom of the keel? I should probably just wait for the video when all will be revealed. Thanks, Amos| 6807|6796|2005-02-07 00:40:36|Alex Christie|Re: cutting of keel holes|I'm glad you asked Amos. I'll make certain to film very closely tomorrow's keel-sticking process! The good news is that with the keel installation finished, all I need are a few other scenes such as making prop aperture, plus a little bit of live action of a finished boat, and the filming of this film volume will be complete (Volume 1, perhaps called Bare Plate to Bare Hull), which means I can finally get it out to the viewing public! But really, the keel install is not complicated. The sectional shape of the keel is only marginally smaller 4 inches down from the keel top, where the hull skin will contact it. Brent did not make a truly exact template of the keel section (my wooden boatbuilding training would have had me obsessively make an exact template of the cross section of the keel 4" down). He just measured the length of each keel from leading edge to trailing edge, plus the width at centre-line, then transferred this onto the inside of the hull. Because the leading edge is a 2" piece of solid shaft, he drew a 2" circle at the point on the inside hull skin where the keels begin (16' back from the tip of the bow at the deck measured diagonally with a tape measure down to where the keels go (I'll take a photo of this tomorrow) . The plans show the distance each keel is placed from centreline as well (I think it was 30" measured on the hull skin). He then took a batten and scribed a fair curve starting from the front to back, keeping to the maximum width of the keel at its mid-point and terminating at what would be the trailing edge of the keel (which is about 1/2" wide). The trick of the snug fit that you seek is that steel is quite a flexible medium before you start zapping it with tack-welds, and the tops of tops of keels are not exception. So, pulling the keel through to their 4" mark, then forcing their width open to fit the nice fair curve is all that is needed to assure a snug fit. ...if I've missed any details about the process, I'm sure Brent can fill in the gaps I may have left, but that is the basic idea, anyhow. Just stick it in, wedge it snug and tack-weld it so the keels are 90 degrees perpendicular to the hull skin on each side. Alex On 6-Feb-05, at 8:58 PM, put_to_sea wrote: > > I have been wondering about the process of pulling the keels up > through the holes in the hull and have been waiting for the video for > the answer. How do you get the keel tops through holes in the hull > and still have snug fit when in position since the top of the keel is > bigger than the bottom of the keel? I should probably just wait for > the video when all will be revealed. > > Thanks, > Amos > | 6808|6808|2005-02-07 07:50:09|sae140|Metal paper|If anyone's interested in paper designed for Origami use - aluminium foil sandwiched between 2 layers of polymer - check out: http://www.mutr.co.uk/prodDetail.aspx?prodID=1088 should be available in Hollywood, from what they say ... Colin| 6809|6589|2005-02-07 10:00:41|dreemer1962|Re: Bilge keel vs. twin keels|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Gerd" wrote: > > Milan - I guess it's a quetion of choice. Actually I have the > feeling that over the past years there have been more and more > designs of what in cars we now call crossover-concepts: designs that > will combine tradition with modern shapes or materials, or racing > concepts from open formulas like the 6.50 or the 60 with cruising > programs etc. Or look at the first ULDBs from something like 20 > years ago > > Some (not all) of Brouns designs go pretty far, but then they would > be for the fun&high-performance cruiser. Should a LOT of fun to > cross the oceans with that ;-) > > As for directional stability, obviously there must be some > compromises and tradeoffs between responsiveness, perfomance and > straight-like-on-rails... but the often cited instability of the > wide flat sterns is overestimated, not only my own experience with > some amateur boats of friends many years ago tells me diferent but > just look at open occean racing - they run on autopilot all the time > in very extreme conditions and they DO count with the effort it > takes to control the boat, because electricity is scarce and anyway > you can't win if you don't make it home ;-) > > Twin rudders: I hav sailed with that and the positive control is > amazing. it's a combination of different things: > - when the boat heels, a single ruder is no longer vertical and wil > actually push the transom up or down - this is a horrible waste of > effort. The lee rudder will then work nicely vertical. > - when heeled the single rudder will reduce it's draft and projected > surface, just like the keel, thus significantly loose it's role in > the lateral plan > > Actually, I can't see anything that speaks against twin rudders, > other than an increase in wetted surface (not that much, as they are > smaller...) and the fact that it's more work and possibly more > expensive to build. > > right, some controversial issues here... always good to throw a > pebble in the pond when it gets too sleepy around here ;-) > > Gerd Hi Gerd, old Ben, Brent. Thanks for your mails, I apologize that I'm so late with a reaction I was very busy, no time for surfing the Net. Gerd, Crossover combinations: Yes, it's the good thing, combining good solutions from different periods and from different fields of yacht design with an open mind without prejudices. Your YAGO is very nice example of successful combination of the traditional work boat with a more modern cruising hull form. However, there are many more less then successful crossovers, especially combining racing and cruising. Problems with a racing designs are that they are developed for circumstances very different from cruising. Their shapes are very much influenced by artificial rules which don't constrain cruising design. Take for example waterline length - as a major speed giving element it is heavily penalized in the most racing classes. Result are very wide hulls for their length. Main sail area was also penalized producing sail plans with a small main with a small roach and big fore sails and spinnakers. Comfortable motion, load caring ability, ease of handling, simplicity of equipment, simple maintenance are all very low on the list of racers, just opposite of the cruisers. As a most cruisers can't count on the corporate sponsorship, keeping costs as low as possible is top priority as financing even the cheapest cruising boat makes a major dent in most people savings. Most of the cruisers and especially their crew are not of the type of the top fit - top skilled sailors thinking nothing of climbing twenty meters high mast in force eight winds to repair broken solid rod shroud and willing to be bounced around for the weeks as in a cement mixer sleeping only occasionally for a few minutes and being constantly wet. I think that a typical design task for a open water cruising boat is - 1.Find out what's the budget. 2. design as SAFE, 3. as comfortable and 4. as fast as possible, easy to build, handle and maintain boat for the money. In my case, as I would like to sail fast on the simple steel boat, she would be something very much as your "lean and mean machine" Yago 37 beachcomber. Same type interior - simple, open and light, concentrated in the middle of the boat, ends empty, just light stowage. I would probably go for more extreme length beam ratio of 1:4 or 1:5. Rig would be two masted with a raked masts of same /almost same height, well separated, with a short gaffs and long luffs. I'm also interested in the free standing masts. http://www.sponbergyachtdesign.com/StateoftheArt.htm I especially like the possibility to let booms to move forward for the down wind sailing. Sails would generate much more power in that position being in a laminar air flow instead just being pushed by the wind and producing huge turbulence as in normal square to the wind down wind sailing position for the boats with a shrouds. That would possibly make difficult to handle spinnakers and similar unnecessary. Letting booms far forward heave additional advantages of being curse stabile and reducing rolling. There are different ways of achieving this. More common, expensive and complicated way with a rotating masts, or low teach way of sails without slides but warped or laced around masts. Directional stability: As you sad compromise is necessary but good curse stability remains desirable. But of course there are more factors influencing course stability then just width of the stern: for example volume distribution - if the widest part of the hull lays far after the middle of the boat there is the tendency to bury the bow and lift the stern with a heel. If widest part lays in the middle, heeled hull can lay more or less parallel even with a wide stern. Beam/length ratio plays huge influence as well - narrow hulls are much more course stable and as result can tolerate much wider sterns (relatively to the width of the hull), then wide hulls, without loosing directional stability. Also cross section shape plays an important role. It rounded, elliptical, even wide hull can heel without changing trim to much. Twin rudders: I agree, it's almost all advantages aside from the additional work and costs. Still, I can think of few possible disadvantages: Making a simple wind wane steering system is more difficult. Motoring maneuverability in tight places would suffer without wash of the propeller hitting rudder. Then again, although that's quite essential in the crowded Dutch waters where I'm sailing it's maybe not so much of the concern for the voyaging boat. Twin rudders are a bit more vulnerable to damage from hitting floating debris because rudders are not protected by the keel. Exept if combined with a twin keel. By the way, the most efficient steering system which I'm aware of is Lars Bergstrom tilting rudder which can be adjusted to vertical position with any heel angle and because of the high efficiency can heave less area then conventional rudders, producing less drag. I'm sure it works very well but seems as a lot off hassle for the simple boats most of us here heave in mind. ULDB's from 20 years ago, (or any other age by the way): I heave difficulties trying to find information's about them, do you know some sources? The best what I did find is this from Bill Lee: . http://www.fastisfun.com/blboats/sc50brochure/sc50.htm I also heave some information's about early Van der Stadt plywood ULDB's . Guy Ribadeu Dumas (designer of Credit Agricole) has nice site http://www.ribadeau.com/naval/www/index.php? module=articles&action=listearticles&rub_id=4 I also found some information's about early Tabarly's Pen Duicks http://www.penduick.com/pages/uk/accueil_bateau_uk.htm and very scatchy info about John Spencer's design Ragtime and one racing schooner (not on the Net). Milan| 6810|6644|2005-02-07 10:18:26|dreemer1962|Re: origami ply??|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Gerd" wrote: > > > > ...example 6mm ply outside (easy to bend in all curves which you > need > > and 15 mm foam inside all covered with a few layers of glass cloth > > and epoxy on both sides, eliminating or at least minimizing > internal supports. > for royalties?? ;-) "…How much for royalties?? …" You are of course very welcomed to use the idea for free if you like it but if you really insist you can by me a bear if we meet somewhere some day. But of course, not before you drink quite a few which you will get from me as a royality for your Yago and all other good vibes, ideas and advices found on your site and this forum Cheers, Milan| 6811|6794|2005-02-07 14:41:04|brentswain38|Re: John G. Hanna and his Yacht Designs|The Hanna steel version of the Tahiti ketch was one of the most abysmally overframed steel yachts ever designed with the possible exception of the Roberts Spray. I read somewhere that it has around thousands of lbs of framing and useless bit and pieces, and 1/8th inch plate. The hull could be built of 3/8th inch plate with no frames and weigh roughly the same. The Berkely firechief had built the framing for one and asked me to plate it for him. I told him that I could build a dozen origami hulls the same size with less work or man hours than it would take to plate his hull. I declined the job. Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III" wrote: > > is a great book : " A Ketch called Tahiti " by > John Stephen Doherty > I posted two plans about the big Tahiti called Carol > a sailplan with measurements & > an accomodation plan of that famous boat , > in the Folder " 36ft double ender " in the files of > Boatdesign2 > > Does this post belong in an Origami Group ? > > I sure think so , cause one of our co-members > http://www.tantonyachts.com in earlier times > designed Pen Gwyn for steel amateurbuilding > sure with the Tahiti in mind :-) > and what do we find in the Files ? > Whitehead the 36ft Origami for steelconstruction. > > I rather let YM Tanton talk himself about his work > and if I have some questions : > I 'd love to have the specs especialy draft , cause > some people like to sail the swatchways . > Did he ever considered a kit for building in thick Aluminum ? > > I hope the author reads this post , that 36ft origami > boat sure has my special attention cause I think > it can be turned into a fine liveaboard cruiser . > > Curious Old Ben | 6812|6796|2005-02-07 14:54:26|put_to_sea|Re: cutting of keel holes|> I'll make certain to film very closely > tomorrow's keel-sticking process! I'll be looking forward to the video. Amos| 6813|6794|2005-02-07 16:59:55|john kupris|Re: John G. Hanna and his Yacht Designs|Hi Brent interesting stuff about the steel Tahiti ketch being over framed, would you place the 42' steel gazelle in this catagory? It has lots of framing and 10 ga plating. Thanks John. brentswain38 wrote: The Hanna steel version of the Tahiti ketch was one of the most abysmally overframed steel yachts ever designed with the possible exception of the Roberts Spray. I read somewhere that it has around thousands of lbs of framing and useless bit and pieces, and 1/8th inch plate. The hull could be built of 3/8th inch plate with no frames and weigh roughly the same. The Berkely firechief had built the framing for one and asked me to plate it for him. I told him that I could build a dozen origami hulls the same size with less work or man hours than it would take to plate his hull. I declined the job. Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III" wrote: > > is a great book : " A Ketch called Tahiti " by > John Stephen Doherty > I posted two plans about the big Tahiti called Carol > a sailplan with measurements & > an accomodation plan of that famous boat , > in the Folder " 36ft double ender " in the files of > Boatdesign2 > > Does this post belong in an Origami Group ? > > I sure think so , cause one of our co-members > http://www.tantonyachts.com in earlier times > designed Pen Gwyn for steel amateurbuilding > sure with the Tahiti in mind :-) > and what do we find in the Files ? > Whitehead the 36ft Origami for steelconstruction. > > I rather let YM Tanton talk himself about his work > and if I have some questions : > I 'd love to have the specs especialy draft , cause > some people like to sail the swatchways . > Did he ever considered a kit for building in thick Aluminum ? > > I hope the author reads this post , that 36ft origami > boat sure has my special attention cause I think > it can be turned into a fine liveaboard cruiser . > > Curious Old Ben To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT document.write(''); --------------------------------- Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 6814|6796|2005-02-07 17:19:44|..|cutting of keel holes|Alex, I have just tripped over a block shaped bulge in my drive,might this be due to your block having run off line ? If your boat suddenly shoots up in the air , you will know that I have just hit the lump with a big hammer. Geoff Cheshire England It also helps to put the block and jack on a piece of steel to make a wider footprint and provide actual lift instead of just pushing your block deep into the ground causing a block-shaped bulge to appear in the dirt on the other side of the planet. Alex --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.851 / Virus Database: 579 - Release Date: 28/01/2005 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]| 6815|22|2005-02-07 19:20:12|origamiboats@yahoogroups.com|New file uploaded to origamiboats |Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the origamiboats group. File : /LaChica.jpg Uploaded by : ben_azo Description : http://www.sailingwithoutasound.com You can access this file at the URL: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/files/LaChica.jpg To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit: http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files Regards, ben_azo | 6816|6794|2005-02-07 19:50:02|Puck III|Re: John G. Hanna and his Yacht Designs|Hi, I took the liberty to make a screendump-assembly from our co-member Paul Thompson 's great website : http://www.sailingwithoutasound.com ( posted in Links now ) and I posted it also in the File " 36ft double ender in Origami " in Origamiboats 2 where I posted some more pics related to the Topic there : ( see the framing & boat in the Link :-) + 2 PenGwyn sailing pics I am in love with the real simple Fishermans rig posted there and joined a PenGwyn Fisherman Wheelhouse sketch with a pic of a similar house on a Dutch build Colin Archer with its interior vieuw and a Dutch accomodation drawing. As explained offline to a co-member today that I use the repositories only to dump pics & sketches as they come cause its easyer for interested people to make their own storageplace to keep and explain what they like or not , refering to a pic rather than with words , as an example see : http://www.janice.com/BenAzo For now my personal interest realy is building a thick enough ( 8 mm? ) Aluminum Origami cause to reduce the building time I only see reducing the number of parts and the time needed for welding :-) Hope you like the pics and think about the centercockpit to :-) Old Ben --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, john kupris wrote: > Hi Brent interesting stuff about the steel Tahiti ketch being over framed, would you place the 42' steel gazelle in this catagory? It has lots of framing and 10 ga plating. Thanks John. > > brentswain38 wrote: > The Hanna steel version of the Tahiti ketch was one of the most > abysmally overframed steel yachts ever designed with the possible > exception of the Roberts Spray. I read somewhere that it has around > thousands of lbs of framing and useless bit and pieces, and 1/8th > inch plate. The hull could be built of 3/8th inch plate with no > frames and weigh roughly the same. > The Berkely firechief had built the framing for one and asked me to > plate it for him. I told him that I could build a dozen origami hulls > the same size with less work or man hours than it would take to plate > his hull. I declined the job. > Brent > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III" wrote: > > > > is a great book : " A Ketch called Tahiti " by > > John Stephen Doherty > > I posted two plans about the big Tahiti called Carol > > a sailplan with measurements & > > an accomodation plan of that famous boat , > > in the Folder " 36ft double ender " in the files of > > Boatdesign2 > > > > Does this post belong in an Origami Group ? > > > > I sure think so , cause one of our co-members > > http://www.tantonyachts.com in earlier times > > designed Pen Gwyn for steel amateurbuilding > > sure with the Tahiti in mind :-) > > and what do we find in the Files ? > > Whitehead the 36ft Origami for steelconstruction. > > > > I rather let YM Tanton talk himself about his work > > and if I have some questions : > > I 'd love to have the specs especialy draft , cause > > some people like to sail the swatchways . > > Did he ever considered a kit for building in thick Aluminum ? > > > > I hope the author reads this post , that 36ft origami > > boat sure has my special attention cause I think > > it can be turned into a fine liveaboard cruiser . > > > > Curious Old Ben > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT > document.write(''); > > --------------------------------- > Yahoo! Groups Links > > To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/ > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 6817|6794|2005-02-07 19:56:35|Puck III|Re: John G. Hanna and his Yacht Designs|Sorry Guys , I make a mistake in the Links here-under , its http://www.janice.com/BenAzo/ and http://www.janice.com/BenAzo/11Icome.jpg I hope I have it right this time :-) Old Ben --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III" wrote: > > Hi, I took the liberty to make a screendump-assembly from our > co-member Paul Thompson 's great website : > http://www.sailingwithoutasound.com ( posted in Links now ) > > and I posted it also in the File " 36ft double ender in Origami " > in Origamiboats 2 where I posted some more pics related > to the Topic there : ( see the framing & boat in the Link :-) + > 2 PenGwyn sailing pics > I am in love with the real simple Fishermans rig posted there > and joined a PenGwyn Fisherman Wheelhouse sketch with a > pic of a similar house on a Dutch build Colin Archer with its > interior vieuw and a Dutch accomodation drawing. > > As explained offline to a co-member today that I use the > repositories only to dump pics & sketches as they come cause > its easyer for interested people to make their own storageplace > to keep and explain what they like or not , refering to a pic rather > than with words , as an example see : > http://www.janice.com/BenAzo > > For now my personal interest realy is building a thick enough > ( 8 mm? ) Aluminum Origami cause to reduce the building time > I only see reducing the number of parts and the time needed > for welding :-) > Hope you like the pics and think about the centercockpit to :-) > > Old Ben > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, john kupris > wrote: > > Hi Brent interesting stuff about the steel Tahiti ketch being over > framed, would you place the 42' steel gazelle in this catagory? It > has lots of framing and 10 ga plating. Thanks John. > > > > brentswain38 wrote: > > The Hanna steel version of the Tahiti ketch was one of the > most > > abysmally overframed steel yachts ever designed with the > possible > > exception of the Roberts Spray. I read somewhere that it has > around > > thousands of lbs of framing and useless bit and pieces, and > 1/8th > > inch plate. The hull could be built of 3/8th inch plate with no > > frames and weigh roughly the same. > > The Berkely firechief had built the framing for one and asked > me to > > plate it for him. I told him that I could build a dozen origami > hulls > > the same size with less work or man hours than it would take > to plate > > his hull. I declined the job. > > Brent > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III" > wrote: > > > > > > is a great book : " A Ketch called Tahiti " by > > > John Stephen Doherty > > > I posted two plans about the big Tahiti called Carol > > > a sailplan with measurements & > > > an accomodation plan of that famous boat , > > > in the Folder " 36ft double ender " in the files of > > > Boatdesign2 > > > > > > Does this post belong in an Origami Group ? > > > > > > I sure think so , cause one of our co-members > > > http://www.tantonyachts.com in earlier times > > > designed Pen Gwyn for steel amateurbuilding > > > sure with the Tahiti in mind :-) > > > and what do we find in the Files ? > > > Whitehead the 36ft Origami for steelconstruction. > > > > > > I rather let YM Tanton talk himself about his work > > > and if I have some questions : > > > I 'd love to have the specs especialy draft , cause > > > some people like to sail the swatchways . > > > Did he ever considered a kit for building in thick Aluminum ? > > > > > > I hope the author reads this post , that 36ft origami > > > boat sure has my special attention cause I think > > > it can be turned into a fine liveaboard cruiser . > > > > > > Curious Old Ben > > > > > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: > origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT > > document.write(''); > > > > --------------------------------- > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > To visit your group on the web, go to: > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/ > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > Service. > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 6818|6818|2005-02-07 22:35:38|carlmbentley|centre of lateral resistance|anyone know what the "clr" is for the swain 36 off the top of their head. just thought i'd ask before i start cutting little models out of paper.| 6819|6819|2005-02-08 01:55:05|Alex|twin keel success|Well to update you all, we got the twin keels installed today, as you can see in the cover photo. She is starting to look like boat now more than ever. You can see photos of the keel installation in the "Alex's Boat" photo album, sub-album "Twin Keel Install". The getting the keels up and into the boat was pretty fast -- an empty steel shell is not excessively heavy and two humans can skid it along wooden boards (grass grabs a little too much, in which case three people are better). We had to make sure we jerked on the chain at the same time or the thing would not budge much, but you get into a rhythm with things like this. There's a lesson in that, somewhere, about working together, one that world leaders might learn from if they ever decided to do the right thing and build an origami boat. Once in position near the boat, we attached the come-along hooks to the grab loops installed on the inside of each keel (see photos), and Brent just kept working each come- along from inside (see interior shot showing come-along slung from attachment point on mast support and middle of lower edge of pilothouse) until the keel was drawn up close. The film will show better how he went from there, using wooden sticks or pieces of flatbar to move the top of the keel shell a little bit to get it past the lip of the hull skin, but you can imagine little sticks poking through the hole to guide the edge of the keel top past the hll skin. Once a keel was in far enough, he would go outside to see if it looked right as well as lever the keel in whatever direction it needed to be wiggled to square it to the hull (see photo of him checking that the keel is 90 degrees to hull by using carpenter's square). The keel was then wedged open at the top to fill the gap (actually I think he did a little beforehand as well), and there was considerable sledgehammer whacking of blocks of wood (see photos), pieces of steel pipe (put sideways in keel) to get it tight. Brent also sledge-hammered the keels on either the forward end or the aft end to get them into the right position. Although there was considerable tack-welding on the inside of hull where the skin touches the keels, they are still wobbly, being attached to a large expanse of sheet metal with no lateral support. Thus it is important to brace the keels on the outside with a short piece of stout angle iron (we used approx 1.75 inch x 1/4" angle iron) running from the trailing edge of the each keel at an angle up to the hull. Once the thick keel webs are installed inside these temporary outside braces can be removed. With the sun going down we moved on to tackle cutting the propeller aperture opening which is an interesting operation in its own right. I'll try and post some photos of that process shortly in my photo section. Note the use of Chevrolet/GMC hubcap to scribe the curve of the opening. Do not use Ford hubcaps, as they just don't work and your whole project might be ruined in one fell swoop. :-) Notes on each photo in the propeller aperture section will explain the steps. By the way, if you suffer from insomnia, just start building a boat. Dragging steel around, grinding slag and bumpy welds with a giant 7 inch electric grinder, among the many very physical activities involved in boatbuilding will guarantee, without fail, that you fall asleep as soon as your head hits the pillow, and you will stay asleep until past dawn, or until your wife pours cold water on your head. Alex| 6820|6794|2005-02-08 14:09:20|Paul J. Thompson|Re: John G. Hanna and his Yacht Designs|Hi All, La Chica, a Tahiti ketch is my boat. I did the redesign (from wood to steel) for her myself in the mid 80's. At the time I did not know of Westy Farmers version but was attempting to sort out many of the same problems. The result was a very similar boat even thought I was totally unaware of his work but just using the then current thoughts on steel boat building and design. There can be no doubt in my mind that La Chica is hopelessly over framed and over built. Hull plating is 4.2mm and the deck is 3mm. Keel sides 8mm and the keel bottom 25mm. Frame work, 11 frames spaced about 830mm apart and 8mm x 70mm in section, welded to the hull only at the chines. They could all be ripped out as the contribute nothing or very little to the overall structure. Each panel is supported by a stringer running down the centre 30mm x 6mm. The chines are 20mm solid round bar. While they were a lot of work to put in, there is no doubt in my mind that they saved the boat when she went ashore during hurricane Luis (St. Martin, Netherlands Antilles, 1995). She was on a beach strewn with small rocks (about 100 - 300mm in size). She pounded on that beach for about 8 hours before the 1.5 to 2M waves receded. While her topsides were in pretty good shape, the underwater parts were quite badly dented (I have photo's if anyone is interested). What was really noticeable was that 95% of all dents stopped at the chines but sections supported by stringers or frames just collapsed. also on that same beach was a French boat (about 36 ft) built with 3mm plate and no chines. On her the chines had collapsed and the whole side that hit the beach was caved in. She would never sail again. La Chica on the other had, was in the water five days (one of the first boats got back into the water) after the hurricane and I continued to sail her until last year when I took her out of the water and repaired the damaged plate. I also made her keel a foot deeper and I cut down the 300mm high bulwark to 75mm toe rail. Hope this is of interest. Regards, Paul brentswain38 wrote: >The Hanna steel version of the Tahiti ketch was one of the most >abysmally overframed steel yachts ever designed with the possible >exception of the Roberts Spray. I read somewhere that it has around >thousands of lbs of framing and useless bit and pieces, and 1/8th >inch plate. The hull could be built of 3/8th inch plate with no >frames and weigh roughly the same. > The Berkely firechief had built the framing for one and asked me to >plate it for him. I told him that I could build a dozen origami hulls >the same size with less work or man hours than it would take to plate >his hull. I declined the job. >Brent > >--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III" wrote: > > >>is a great book : " A Ketch called Tahiti " by >>John Stephen Doherty >>I posted two plans about the big Tahiti called Carol >>a sailplan with measurements & >>an accomodation plan of that famous boat , >>in the Folder " 36ft double ender " in the files of >>Boatdesign2 >> >>Does this post belong in an Origami Group ? >> >>I sure think so , cause one of our co-members >>http://www.tantonyachts.com in earlier times >>designed Pen Gwyn for steel amateurbuilding >>sure with the Tahiti in mind :-) >>and what do we find in the Files ? >>Whitehead the 36ft Origami for steelconstruction. >> >>I rather let YM Tanton talk himself about his work >>and if I have some questions : >>I 'd love to have the specs especialy draft , cause >>some people like to sail the swatchways . >>Did he ever considered a kit for building in thick Aluminum ? >> >>I hope the author reads this post , that 36ft origami >>boat sure has my special attention cause I think >>it can be turned into a fine liveaboard cruiser . >> >>Curious Old Ben >> >> > > > > > > >To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com >To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > | 6821|6794|2005-02-08 15:32:21|brentswain38|Re: John G. Hanna and his Yacht Designs|Doubler plates on the inside are far more efective than chine bars. If it had been sharp granite you'd landed on the chine bars would have made holing far more likely. With a single chine single keel hull the only places that would normally contact the beach is the chine amidships and the bottom of the keel. If these are doubled with chine doubler plates for about 6 inches back, you are likely to escape without any dents. That's happened on several groundings here in BC Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Paul J. Thompson" wrote: > Hi All, > > La Chica, a Tahiti ketch is my boat. I did the redesign (from wood to > steel) for her myself in the mid 80's. At the time I did not know of > Westy Farmers version but was attempting to sort out many of the same > problems. The result was a very similar boat even thought I was totally > unaware of his work but just using the then current thoughts on steel > boat building and design. > > There can be no doubt in my mind that La Chica is hopelessly over framed > and over built. Hull plating is 4.2mm and the deck is 3mm. Keel sides > 8mm and the keel bottom 25mm. Frame work, 11 frames spaced about 830mm > apart and 8mm x 70mm in section, welded to the hull only at the chines. > They could all be ripped out as the contribute nothing or very little to > the overall structure. Each panel is supported by a stringer running > down the centre 30mm x 6mm. The chines are 20mm solid round bar. While > they were a lot of work to put in, there is no doubt in my mind that > they saved the boat when she went ashore during hurricane Luis (St. > Martin, Netherlands Antilles, 1995). She was on a beach strewn with > small rocks (about 100 - 300mm in size). She pounded on that beach for > about 8 hours before the 1.5 to 2M waves receded. While her topsides > were in pretty good shape, the underwater parts were quite badly dented > (I have photo's if anyone is interested). What was really noticeable was > that 95% of all dents stopped at the chines but sections supported by > stringers or frames just collapsed. also on that same beach was a French > boat (about 36 ft) built with 3mm plate and no chines. On her the chines > had collapsed and the whole side that hit the beach was caved in. She > would never sail again. > > La Chica on the other had, was in the water five days (one of the first > boats got back into the water) after the hurricane and I continued to > sail her until last year when I took her out of the water and repaired > the damaged plate. I also made her keel a foot deeper and I cut down the > 300mm high bulwark to 75mm toe rail. > > Hope this is of interest. > > Regards, > > Paul > > brentswain38 wrote: > > >The Hanna steel version of the Tahiti ketch was one of the most > >abysmally overframed steel yachts ever designed with the possible > >exception of the Roberts Spray. I read somewhere that it has around > >thousands of lbs of framing and useless bit and pieces, and 1/8th > >inch plate. The hull could be built of 3/8th inch plate with no > >frames and weigh roughly the same. > > The Berkely firechief had built the framing for one and asked me to > >plate it for him. I told him that I could build a dozen origami hulls > >the same size with less work or man hours than it would take to plate > >his hull. I declined the job. > >Brent > > > >--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III" wrote: > > > > > >>is a great book : " A Ketch called Tahiti " by > >>John Stephen Doherty > >>I posted two plans about the big Tahiti called Carol > >>a sailplan with measurements & > >>an accomodation plan of that famous boat , > >>in the Folder " 36ft double ender " in the files of > >>Boatdesign2 > >> > >>Does this post belong in an Origami Group ? > >> > >>I sure think so , cause one of our co-members > >>http://www.tantonyachts.com in earlier times > >>designed Pen Gwyn for steel amateurbuilding > >>sure with the Tahiti in mind :-) > >>and what do we find in the Files ? > >>Whitehead the 36ft Origami for steelconstruction. > >> > >>I rather let YM Tanton talk himself about his work > >>and if I have some questions : > >>I 'd love to have the specs especialy draft , cause > >>some people like to sail the swatchways . > >>Did he ever considered a kit for building in thick Aluminum ? > >> > >>I hope the author reads this post , that 36ft origami > >>boat sure has my special attention cause I think > >>it can be turned into a fine liveaboard cruiser . > >> > >>Curious Old Ben > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > >To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats- unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > | 6822|6794|2005-02-08 15:33:42|brentswain38|Re: John G. Hanna and his Yacht Designs|Yes. Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, john kupris wrote: > Hi Brent interesting stuff about the steel Tahiti ketch being over framed, would you place the 42' steel gazelle in this catagory? It has lots of framing and 10 ga plating. Thanks John. > > brentswain38 wrote: > The Hanna steel version of the Tahiti ketch was one of the most > abysmally overframed steel yachts ever designed with the possible > exception of the Roberts Spray. I read somewhere that it has around > thousands of lbs of framing and useless bit and pieces, and 1/8th > inch plate. The hull could be built of 3/8th inch plate with no > frames and weigh roughly the same. > The Berkely firechief had built the framing for one and asked me to > plate it for him. I told him that I could build a dozen origami hulls > the same size with less work or man hours than it would take to plate > his hull. I declined the job. > Brent > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III" wrote: > > > > is a great book : " A Ketch called Tahiti " by > > John Stephen Doherty > > I posted two plans about the big Tahiti called Carol > > a sailplan with measurements & > > an accomodation plan of that famous boat , > > in the Folder " 36ft double ender " in the files of > > Boatdesign2 > > > > Does this post belong in an Origami Group ? > > > > I sure think so , cause one of our co-members > > http://www.tantonyachts.com in earlier times > > designed Pen Gwyn for steel amateurbuilding > > sure with the Tahiti in mind :-) > > and what do we find in the Files ? > > Whitehead the 36ft Origami for steelconstruction. > > > > I rather let YM Tanton talk himself about his work > > and if I have some questions : > > I 'd love to have the specs especialy draft , cause > > some people like to sail the swatchways . > > Did he ever considered a kit for building in thick Aluminum ? > > > > I hope the author reads this post , that 36ft origami > > boat sure has my special attention cause I think > > it can be turned into a fine liveaboard cruiser . > > > > Curious Old Ben > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats- unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT > document.write(''); > > --------------------------------- > Yahoo! Groups Links > > To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/ > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 6823|6818|2005-02-08 15:41:14|brentswain38|Re: centre of lateral resistance|Carl You should go back and read the part of my book on balance. The CLR as usually calculated has little relevance to the actual centre of lateral resistance.Over the years the 36 has been refined to near perfect balance.Ted Brewer told one of my clients to move his keels 2ft further foreward. I told him that Brewer has absolutly no experience with this particular design, and that he should stick to the plans. He did and the boat balances perfectly. He said that he is sure glad that he didn't follow Brewer's advice ,as that would have given her an extreme weather helm. Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "carlmbentley" wrote: > > anyone know what the "clr" is for the swain 36 off the top of their > head. just thought i'd ask before i start cutting little models out > of paper. | 6824|6694|2005-02-08 17:12:08|Bill Jaine|Re: Boating Lights|I just heard from my traffic light expert, they are coloured LED�s behind clear glass so may represent potential for running lights. Bill Port Hope. Canada -----Original Message----- From: sae140 [mailto:colinpowell@...] Sent: 3-Feb-05 3:47 AM To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Boating Lights --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, ".." wrote: > Bill, > It might be confusing for others vessels with the lights changing from red > to > green all the time! > Cheshire > England > Geoff > > What about the heads in the new traffic lights, would they make good running > lights or are they too expensive? > > > > Bill > > Port Hope. Canada Nice one (!) Last year I drove past a traffic light which had been mated by a car, and which had it's innards exposed. The array was 4 dozen or so white LEDs with a coloured filter in front. But - it was the middle of the day and I didn't have any tools with me ...... Colin Boston (the original one), England To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com _____ Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: HYPERLINK "http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/"http://groups.yahoo.com/group/o rigamiboats/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HYPERLINK "mailto:origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe"origami boats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the HYPERLINK "http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/"Yahoo! Terms of Service. -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.8.4 - Release Date: 01/02/2005 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.8.5 - Release Date: 03/02/2005 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 6825|6825|2005-02-08 19:37:20|richytill|seatrials|Update on VW antics. Sunday was a sweet day with driving rain and sleet bursting down the inlet from the coast mountains and us motoring up the inlet on a test run. Lashed My Island to the wharf at hight tide Sat. afternoon. Same night and we pressure washed till 2300 hrs. Located prop shaft in 2.5:1 transmision and waited for tide to lift boat. Motored off at 0810 hrs. The VW runs like silk at 3300 rpm and the flywheel/drive plate we set up make all the difference. Underwater exhaust is convenient and simple enough. The oil cooler is doing its' job. 1100 rpm is good; 1650 is smooth and 2650 makes another good spot to run. The Swain 36 moves well in the water--off to try it again.| 6826|6794|2005-02-08 22:19:10|Puck III|Re: John G. Hanna and his Yacht Designs|Hi Paul ,your post is most interesting , as are your pretty photoalbums in : http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tahitiana/ a boat isnt a hull , deck & superstructure only thing and I had a serious look at the mastbuilding pics :-) Even if my preference is always an easy collapsable mast system wich is always easy to sail under bridges or even make a small repair , what you have build ( fine made collars ) is always the easyest and classic way to do. The double enders still have that special classic look , so has the ketch and I see many Groups where Ketch versus Sloop or Cutter is under strong discussion today. Gusto mucho La Chica Linda :-) Old Ben --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Paul J. Thompson" wrote: > Hi All, > > La Chica, a Tahiti ketch is my boat. I did the redesign (from wood to > steel) for her myself in the mid 80's. At the time I did not know of > Westy Farmers version but was attempting to sort out many of the same > problems. The result was a very similar boat even thought I was totally > unaware of his work but just using the then current thoughts on steel > boat building and design. > > There can be no doubt in my mind that La Chica is hopelessly over framed > and over built. Hull plating is 4.2mm and the deck is 3mm. Keel sides > 8mm and the keel bottom 25mm. Frame work, 11 frames spaced about 830mm > apart and 8mm x 70mm in section, welded to the hull only at the chines. > They could all be ripped out as the contribute nothing or very little to > the overall structure. Each panel is supported by a stringer running > down the centre 30mm x 6mm. The chines are 20mm solid round bar. While > they were a lot of work to put in, there is no doubt in my mind that > they saved the boat when she went ashore during hurricane Luis (St. > Martin, Netherlands Antilles, 1995). She was on a beach strewn with > small rocks (about 100 - 300mm in size). She pounded on that beach for > about 8 hours before the 1.5 to 2M waves receded. While her topsides > were in pretty good shape, the underwater parts were quite badly dented > (I have photo's if anyone is interested). What was really noticeable was > that 95% of all dents stopped at the chines but sections supported by > stringers or frames just collapsed. also on that same beach was a French > boat (about 36 ft) built with 3mm plate and no chines. On her the chines > had collapsed and the whole side that hit the beach was caved in. She > would never sail again. > > La Chica on the other had, was in the water five days (one of the first > boats got back into the water) after the hurricane and I continued to > sail her until last year when I took her out of the water and repaired > the damaged plate. I also made her keel a foot deeper and I cut down the > 300mm high bulwark to 75mm toe rail. > > Hope this is of interest. > > Regards, > > Paul > > brentswain38 wrote: > > >The Hanna steel version of the Tahiti ketch was one of the most > >abysmally overframed steel yachts ever designed with the possible > >exception of the Roberts Spray. I read somewhere that it has around > >thousands of lbs of framing and useless bit and pieces, and 1/8th > >inch plate. The hull could be built of 3/8th inch plate with no > >frames and weigh roughly the same. > > The Berkely firechief had built the framing for one and asked me to > >plate it for him. I told him that I could build a dozen origami hulls > >the same size with less work or man hours than it would take to plate > >his hull. I declined the job. > >Brent > > > >--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III" wrote: > > > > > >>is a great book : " A Ketch called Tahiti " by > >>John Stephen Doherty > >>I posted two plans about the big Tahiti called Carol > >>a sailplan with measurements & > >>an accomodation plan of that famous boat , > >>in the Folder " 36ft double ender " in the files of > >>Boatdesign2 > >> > >>Does this post belong in an Origami Group ? > >> > >>I sure think so , cause one of our co-members > >>http://www.tantonyachts.com in earlier times > >>designed Pen Gwyn for steel amateurbuilding > >>sure with the Tahiti in mind :-) > >>and what do we find in the Files ? > >>Whitehead the 36ft Origami for steelconstruction. > >> > >>I rather let YM Tanton talk himself about his work > >>and if I have some questions : > >>I 'd love to have the specs especialy draft , cause > >>some people like to sail the swatchways . > >>Did he ever considered a kit for building in thick Aluminum ? > >> > >>I hope the author reads this post , that 36ft origami > >>boat sure has my special attention cause I think > >>it can be turned into a fine liveaboard cruiser . > >> > >>Curious Old Ben > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > >To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > | 6827|6819|2005-02-08 23:41:13|jfpacuas|Re: twin keel success|Thanks heaps for the great pics Alex. They will likely be invaluable as I (we?) get closer to putting a hull together. cheers paul --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Alex" wrote: > > Well to update you all, we got the twin keels installed today, as you can see in the cover > photo. She is starting to look like boat now more than ever. > > You can see photos of the keel installation in the "Alex's Boat" photo album, sub-album > "Twin Keel Install". > > The getting the keels up and into the boat was pretty fast -- an empty steel shell is not > excessively heavy and two humans can skid it along wooden boards (grass grabs a little > too much, in which case three people are better). We had to make sure we jerked on the > chain at the same time or the thing would not budge much, but you get into a rhythm with > things like this. There's a lesson in that, somewhere, about working together, one that > world leaders might learn from if they ever decided to do the right thing and build an > origami boat. > > Once in position near the boat, we attached the come-along hooks to the grab loops > installed on the inside of each keel (see photos), and Brent just kept working each come- > along from inside (see interior shot showing come-along slung from attachment point on > mast support and middle of lower edge of pilothouse) until the keel was drawn up close. > The film will show better how he went from there, using wooden sticks or pieces of flatbar > to move the top of the keel shell a little bit to get it past the lip of the hull skin, but you > can imagine little sticks poking through the hole to guide the edge of the keel top past the > hll skin. Once a keel was in far enough, he would go outside to see if it looked right as > well as lever the keel in whatever direction it needed to be wiggled to square it to the hull > (see photo of him checking that the keel is 90 degrees to hull by using carpenter's > square). The keel was then wedged open at the top to fill the gap (actually I think he did a > little beforehand as well), and there was considerable sledgehammer whacking of blocks > of wood (see photos), pieces of steel pipe (put sideways in keel) to get it tight. Brent also > sledge-hammered the keels on either the forward end or the aft end to get them into the > right position. > > Although there was considerable tack-welding on the inside of hull where the skin touches > the keels, they are still wobbly, being attached to a large expanse of sheet metal with no > lateral support. Thus it is important to brace the keels on the outside with a short piece of > stout angle iron (we used approx 1.75 inch x 1/4" angle iron) running from the trailing > edge of the each keel at an angle up to the hull. Once the thick keel webs are installed > inside these temporary outside braces can be removed. > > With the sun going down we moved on to tackle cutting the propeller aperture opening > which is an interesting operation in its own right. I'll try and post some photos of that > process shortly in my photo section. Note the use of Chevrolet/GMC hubcap to scribe the > curve of the opening. Do not use Ford hubcaps, as they just don't work and your whole > project might be ruined in one fell swoop. :-) > > Notes on each photo in the propeller aperture section will explain the steps. > > By the way, if you suffer from insomnia, just start building a boat. Dragging steel around, > grinding slag and bumpy welds with a giant 7 inch electric grinder, among the many very > physical activities involved in boatbuilding will guarantee, without fail, that you fall asleep > as soon as your head hits the pillow, and you will stay asleep until past dawn, or until your > wife pours cold water on your head. > > Alex | 6828|6825|2005-02-09 05:25:38|T & D CAIN|Re: seatrials|I would appreciate knowing what prop specs you have on the VW, and the results of further operation in various conditions. If you have already posted the prop detail, my apologies in advance. Terry -----Original Message----- From: richytill [mailto:tillrc@...] Sent: Wednesday, 9 February 2005 10:07 To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Subject: [origamiboats] seatrials Update on VW antics. Sunday was a sweet day with driving rain and sleet bursting down the inlet from the coast mountains and us motoring up the inlet on a test run. Lashed My Island to the wharf at hight tide Sat. afternoon. Same night and we pressure washed till 2300 hrs. Located prop shaft in 2.5:1 transmision and waited for tide to lift boat. Motored off at 0810 hrs. The VW runs like silk at 3300 rpm and the flywheel/drive plate we set up make all the difference. Underwater exhaust is convenient and simple enough. The oil cooler is doing its' job. 1100 rpm is good; 1650 is smooth and 2650 makes another good spot to run. The Swain 36 moves well in the water--off to try it again. To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links| 6829|6694|2005-02-09 07:28:19|sae140|Re: Boating Lights|Hi Bill just to confirm that your contact is quite correct about newly manufactured traffic lights, but it seems there are a few retrofit lamp units to be found in empoverished areas of the world (like the UK ) which use white leds with the pre-existing coloured lenses. e.g. http://www.envoys.net/solarblinkers.htm - so it must have been one of these I saw. Sorry if I misled ... mis-led (get it ? groan ...) anyone. I remember thinking at the time that using white leds didn't make any sense, as there are now coloured jobs around. Also on this thread - I noticed on the TV that Ellen MacArthur's boat was flying a masthead strobe as it passed Ushant light ..... didn't realise that these were legal (?) Today I discovered that some leds can be used for this purpose !! Beggars belief. Used for aircraft strobe lights etc ... http://www.envoys.net/solarblinkers.htm http://www.airport-technology.com/contractors/lighting/gallery.html I think a masthead strobe (I'm thinking xenon flash tubes now) would be about the most visible light at sea ..... Colin --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Bill Jaine" wrote: > I just heard from my traffic light expert, they are coloured LED's behind > clear glass so may represent potential for running lights. > > > > Bill > > Port Hope. Canada > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: sae140 [mailto:colinpowell@f...] > Sent: 3-Feb-05 3:47 AM > To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Boating Lights > > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, ".." wrote: > > Bill, > > It might be confusing for others vessels with the lights changing > from red > > to > > green all the time! > > Cheshire > > England > > Geoff > > > > What about the heads in the new traffic lights, would they make > good running > > lights or are they too expensive? > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > Port Hope. Canada > > Nice one (!) > > Last year I drove past a traffic light which had been mated by a car, > and which had it's innards exposed. The array was 4 dozen or so > white LEDs with a coloured filter in front. But - it was the middle > of the day and I didn't have any tools with me ...... > > Colin > Boston (the original one), England > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > > _____ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > * To visit your group on the web, go to: > HYPERLINK > "http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/"http://groups.yahoo.com /group/o > rigamiboats/ > > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > HYPERLINK > "mailto:origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com? subject=Unsubscribe"origami > boats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the HYPERLINK > "http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/"Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.8.4 - Release Date: 01/02/2005 > > > > -- > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.8.5 - Release Date: 03/02/2005 > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 6830|6825|2005-02-09 11:55:39|Carl Nostrand|Re: seatrials|Go going on the VW! WHich engine and what trany? Please post some photos of your custom flywheel/drive plate. ITs great to see VW's push around a water craft. Carl Homer, Alaska On Feb 9, 2005, at 1:25 AM, T & D CAIN wrote: > > I would appreciate knowing what prop specs you have on the VW, and the > results of further operation in various conditions. > If you have already posted the prop detail, my apologies in advance. > Terry > > -----Original Message----- > From: richytill [mailto:tillrc@...] > Sent: Wednesday, 9 February 2005 10:07 > To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [origamiboats] seatrials > > > > Update on VW antics. Sunday was a sweet day with driving rain and > sleet bursting down the inlet from the coast mountains and us > motoring up the inlet on a test run. > > Lashed My Island to the wharf at hight tide Sat. afternoon. Same > night and we pressure washed till 2300 hrs. Located prop shaft in > 2.5:1 transmision and waited for tide to lift boat. Motored off at > 0810 hrs. > > The VW runs like silk at 3300 rpm and the flywheel/drive plate we set > up make all the difference. Underwater exhaust is convenient and > simple enough. The oil cooler is doing its' job. 1100 rpm is good; > 1650 is smooth and 2650 makes another good spot to run. The Swain 36 > moves well in the water--off to try it again. > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > | 6831|6825|2005-02-09 14:53:45|richytill|Re: seatrials|Terry, current prop is 13P X 8D. Will post further details. rt --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "T & D CAIN" wrote: > I would appreciate knowing what prop specs you have on the VW, and the > results of further operation in various conditions. > If you have already posted the prop detail, my apologies in advance. > Terry > > -----Original Message----- > From: richytill [mailto:tillrc@h...] > Sent: Wednesday, 9 February 2005 10:07 > To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [origamiboats] seatrials > > > > Update on VW antics. Sunday was a sweet day with driving rain and > sleet bursting down the inlet from the coast mountains and us > motoring up the inlet on a test run. > > Lashed My Island to the wharf at hight tide Sat. afternoon. Same > night and we pressure washed till 2300 hrs. Located prop shaft in > 2.5:1 transmision and waited for tide to lift boat. Motored off at > 0810 hrs. > > The VW runs like silk at 3300 rpm and the flywheel/drive plate we set > up make all the difference. Underwater exhaust is convenient and > simple enough. The oil cooler is doing its' job. 1100 rpm is good; > 1650 is smooth and 2650 makes another good spot to run. The Swain 36 > moves well in the water--off to try it again. > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Yahoo! Groups Links | 6832|6694|2005-02-09 18:01:53|kendall|Re: Boating Lights|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "sae140" wrote: > > Hi Bill > just to confirm that your contact is quite correct about newly > manufactured traffic lights, but it seems there are a few retrofit > lamp units to be found in empoverished areas of the world (like the > UK ) which use white leds with the pre-existing coloured lenses. > e.g. http://www.envoys.net/solarblinkers.htm - so it must have been > one of these I saw. noticed one of the LED streetlights yesterday, my thoughts were that if it was running on the same voltage/current as the standard bulb, I'd be willing to swap everything over to them, it was about twice as bright as the 'regular' light down the street, it lit up the entire area almost bright enough to read by. ken.| 6833|6833|2005-02-09 22:11:11|zachdour|Benford Plans|uploaded in http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats2/ File : 36' double ender| 6834|6833|2005-02-10 03:27:52|Puck III|Re: Benford Plans|Merci m'sieu :-) cetou Old Ben --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "zachdour" wrote: > > uploaded in http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats2/ > File : 36' double ender | 6835|6825|2005-02-10 10:02:25|edward_stoneuk|Re: seatrials|Richy, I would be very interested in any pictures or further information you might have on your underwater exhaust. Regards, Ted| 6836|6825|2005-02-10 11:52:39|Puck III|Re: seatrials - underwater exhaust|Hi Ted , you will find a new underwater mufler on offer on ebay for 50$ see also : http://www.marine-exhaust.com/marine/products/underwater.ht ml Old Ben --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "edward_stoneuk" wrote: > > Richy, > > I would be very interested in any pictures or further information > you might have on your underwater exhaust. > > Regards, > Ted | 6837|6837|2005-02-10 13:17:58|kingsknight4life|Putting an industrial diesel in a sailboat|Hi. I have the opportunity to buy a diesel engine at what looks to be a good price. It isn't a marine diesel but I heard from someone I know that he can convert them "relatively" easily. Can an engine from a genset or a refer unit be used to power a sailboat? The reason I ask is I remember hearing somewhere that the engines used in such applications are only made to be run at a constant rpm and this seems like it might not work in a boat??? Any advice or help would be appreciated. Thanks, Rollie| 6838|6825|2005-02-10 13:29:53|edward_stoneuk|Re: seatrials - underwater exhaust|Ben, Thanks for the exhaust link. I am surprised that they use fiberglass components on what I assume are dry exhausts and also interested that they use mufflers as I thought that by using dry underwater exhaust I could get away from the cost of a muffler. Regards, Ted| 6839|22|2005-02-10 13:55:34|origamiboats@yahoogroups.com|New file uploaded to origamiboats |Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the origamiboats group. File : /multi pitch prop.jpg Uploaded by : ben_azo Description : see also dieselconversion files You can access this file at the URL: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/files/multi%20pitch%20prop.jpg To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit: http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files Regards, ben_azo | 6840|6837|2005-02-10 14:07:10|Bruce Hallman|Re: Putting an industrial diesel in a sailboat|Phil Bolger and Friends have designed a number of boats that specify the use of the ubiquitous Deutz Diesel FL1011 (air cooled) common in construction equipment, pumps, welders, gen sets, etc.. used with a Sonic outdrive unit. The logic behind their reasoning seems sound to me. Their most compelling argument is the elimination of below waterline hull openings, [also availablity of spare parts]. You might contact them about this, they correspond best by Fax (978) 282-1349. On Thu, 10 Feb 2005 18:17:36 -0000, kingsknight4life wrote: > > Hi. > I have the opportunity to buy a diesel engine at what looks to be a > good price. It isn't a marine diesel but I heard from someone I know > that he can convert them "relatively" easily. Can an engine from a > genset or a refer unit be used to power a sailboat? | 6841|6837|2005-02-10 14:08:27|Puck III|Re: Putting an industrial diesel in a sailboat|Hi Rollie , see previous post about the variable pitchprop & the dieselengines conversion in Files , you may not forget to ad up the price for all the extra gear you will need , between the engine & the prop , you could consider beltdrive as an option or also hydraulique link as done on cats with 1 engine and two props . Aircooled is usual much noisyer than watercooled . Some questions : what kinda engine for what kinda boat :-) where are you located ? any mecanical skills ? There are some real marinedieselunits out there for a bargain if you know where to look :-) Old Ben --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "kingsknight4life" wrote: > > Hi. > I have the opportunity to buy a diesel engine at what looks to be a > good price. It isn't a marine diesel but I heard from someone I know > that he can convert them "relatively" easily. Can an engine from a > genset or a refer unit be used to power a sailboat? The reason I ask > is I remember hearing somewhere that the engines used in such > applications are only made to be run at a constant rpm and this > seems like it might not work in a boat??? Any advice or help would be > appreciated. > Thanks, > Rollie | 6842|6837|2005-02-10 14:10:32|Puck III|Re: Putting an industrial diesel in a sailboat|Hi Rollie , see previous post about the variable pitchprop & the dieselengines conversion in Files , you may not forget to ad up the price for all the extra gear you will need , between the engine & the prop , you could consider beltdrive as an option or also hydraulique link as done on cats with 1 engine and two props . Aircooled is usual much noisyer than watercooled . Some questions : what kinda engine for what kinda boat :-) where are you located ? any mecanical skills ? There are some real marinedieselunits out there for a bargain if you know where to look :-) Old Ben --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "kingsknight4life" wrote: > > Hi. > I have the opportunity to buy a diesel engine at what looks to be a > good price. It isn't a marine diesel but I heard from someone I know > that he can convert them "relatively" easily. Can an engine from a > genset or a refer unit be used to power a sailboat? The reason I ask > is I remember hearing somewhere that the engines used in such > applications are only made to be run at a constant rpm and this > seems like it might not work in a boat??? Any advice or help would be > appreciated. > Thanks, > Rollie | 6843|6837|2005-02-10 14:39:06|Courtney Thomas|Re: Putting an industrial diesel in a sailboat|To give you one comparison, I got a Westerbeke 4-108 w/transmission, both in excellent condition, on Ebay last year for $1800. HTH, Courtney kingsknight4life wrote: > > Hi. > I have the opportunity to buy a diesel engine at what looks to be a > good price. It isn't a marine diesel but I heard from someone I know > that he can convert them "relatively" easily. Can an engine from a > genset or a refer unit be used to power a sailboat? The reason I ask > is I remember hearing somewhere that the engines used in such > applications are only made to be run at a constant rpm and this > seems like it might not work in a boat??? Any advice or help would be > appreciated. > Thanks, > Rollie > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > -- s/v Mutiny Rhodes Bounty II lying Oriental, NC WDB5619| 6844|6837|2005-02-10 14:42:54|Puck III|Re: Putting an industrial diesel in a sailboat|Works fine for a cat , a fast motorsailer , you could have a look in http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats2/ Bêtes 1 jpg in the Folder shows a neat american Z drive and its instalation drawing . ( have a look at the centercockpit while lurking , the boat is only 33ft long ) Personaly I prefer a direct drive and the simpellest instalation , with the prop in a tunnel when needed for extreem small draft . Options are fine , a different one for everybody if needed :-) Old Ben --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Hallman wrote: > Phil Bolger and Friends have designed a number of boats that specify > the use of the ubiquitous Deutz Diesel FL1011 (air cooled) common in > construction equipment, pumps, welders, gen sets, etc.. used with a > Sonic outdrive unit. > > The logic behind their reasoning seems sound to me. Their most > compelling argument is the elimination of below waterline hull openings, > [also availablity of spare parts]. You might contact them about this, > they correspond best by Fax (978) 282-1349. > > > On Thu, 10 Feb 2005 18:17:36 -0000, kingsknight4life > wrote: > > > > Hi. > > I have the opportunity to buy a diesel engine at what looks to be a > > good price. It isn't a marine diesel but I heard from someone I know > > that he can convert them "relatively" easily. Can an engine from a > > genset or a refer unit be used to power a sailboat? | 6845|6837|2005-02-10 18:13:04|brentswain38|Re: Putting an industrial diesel in a sailboat|I had a Hatz industrial diesel in my boat for 12 years. Very reliable, hot and noisy. Changed for a 22hp watercooled and no complaints.Huge improvement . In a steel boat with skeg cooling and dry exhuast there are no underwater hull fittings anyway, so that is not an arguement for aircooled engines . Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III" wrote: > > Works fine for a cat , a fast motorsailer , you could have a look in > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats2/ > Bêtes 1 jpg in the Folder shows a neat american Z drive and > its instalation drawing . ( have a look at the centercockpit while > lurking , the boat is only 33ft long ) > Personaly I prefer a direct drive and the simpellest instalation , > with the prop in a tunnel when needed for extreem small draft . > Options are fine , a different one for everybody if needed :-) > Old Ben > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Hallman > wrote: > > Phil Bolger and Friends have designed a number of boats that > specify > > the use of the ubiquitous Deutz Diesel FL1011 (air cooled) > common in > > construction equipment, pumps, welders, gen sets, etc.. used > with a > > Sonic outdrive unit. > > > > The logic behind their reasoning seems sound to me. Their > most > > compelling argument is the elimination of below waterline hull > openings, > > [also availablity of spare parts]. You might contact them about > this, > > they correspond best by Fax (978) 282-1349. > > > > > > On Thu, 10 Feb 2005 18:17:36 -0000, kingsknight4life > > wrote: > > > > > > Hi. > > > I have the opportunity to buy a diesel engine at what looks to > be a > > > good price. It isn't a marine diesel but I heard from someone > I know > > > that he can convert them "relatively" easily. Can an engine > from a > > > genset or a refer unit be used to power a sailboat? | 6846|6825|2005-02-10 20:06:02|richytill|Re: seatrials - underwater exhaust|Ted, The system works well for My Island with the engine located close a-midships. A stainless flex pipe comes off the engine; joins a vertical 2" 316 ss pipe that extends up close to the underside of the deck; the pipe goes outboard for 14" and then down through the hull at the doubler plate inboard of the chine. So imagine a "n" shape starting at the engine and exiting in the water below the chine. A 2" ss one way valve keeps water from coming back up if the motor runs backwards or whatever. The exit point at the hull has a gusset and 1/4" doubler to support the load and reduce vibration. The pipe has 2 extra sleeves below the waterline to allow corroded sections of the inner sleeve to be removed and replced. At the inboard connection, a bracket with 2 X 1967 Chev'y motor mounts takes most of the vibration out of the system. It is worth pointing out that there is no advantage to using this system if the motor is under the cockpit. The exhaust in Brent's design seems to have worked well for years--I see no point in changing it. My motivation in placing the motor further amidships was to get wheight down and forward. This seems to have worked well so far. The true test will come with the mast and sails in service. If I can borrow a digital camera we will get some pictures. --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III" wrote: > > Hi Ted , you will find a new underwater mufler on offer on ebay > for 50$ see also : > http://www.marine-exhaust.com/marine/products/underwater.ht > ml > Old Ben > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "edward_stoneuk" > wrote: > > > > Richy, > > > > I would be very interested in any pictures or further information > > you might have on your underwater exhaust. > > > > Regards, > > Ted | 6847|6818|2005-02-10 22:17:31|carlmbentley|Re: centre of lateral resistance|thank you, the section on balance did answer my question. i'm going to use the leading edge of the twin keels as the CLR what you called "the greatest lateral resstance". i'm asking because i'm working on a sail plan and it's something the book says i need. i have no intention of modifying anything below the toe rail. --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "brentswain38" wrote: > > You should go back and read the part of my book on balance. | 6848|6848|2005-02-10 23:09:54|Puck III|Design Options & Nostalgia|Hi All , hi Gerd , I just posted a pic in Photos : Hervéprelims . Made on a bartable in St Malo to sketch where to go . Hervé is realy good , you should see the finished design & boat. Options ? Zachdour posted some fine Belford :-) examples in the " 36ft double ender " Folder in Origamiboats2 Files . By the way , Origamiboats2 looks very popular these days , dont I see some Woodies lurking for new ideas over there ? :-) Can we assemble da " Dream Team " to come up with an interesting new starter in here ?? Sure we can :-) Designgoal : an alu and or steel frameless origami , unsinkable ? fast trailerable gunkhooler for coastal and (realy selfrighting for) offshore work with a serious optionlist regarding rig & appendixes & motor standing headroom with inside-steeringposition for cold & hot climates and a real longrange autonomy All input from all would be welcome and appreciated . Old Ben| 6849|6825|2005-02-11 05:26:24|edward_stoneuk|Re: seatrials - underwater exhaust|Richy, Many thanks for the info. I am interested in the non-return valve; is it full bore? Did you make or buy? Is the system quiet enough without a muffler? Brent's system is very good with the through hull above water, but I was wondering about reducing the pipe run through the storage space by the side of the cockpit and making a tidy transom. Regards, Ted --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "richytill" wrote: > > Ted, The system works well for My Island with the engine located > close a-midships. A stainless flex pipe comes off the engine; joins > a vertical 2" 316 ss pipe that extends up close to the underside of > the deck; the pipe goes outboard for 14" and then down through the > hull at the doubler plate inboard of the chine. > > So imagine a "n" shape starting at the engine and exiting in the > water below the chine. > > A 2" ss one way valve keeps water from coming back up if the motor > runs backwards or whatever. The exit point at the hull has a gusset > and 1/4" doubler to support the load and reduce vibration. The pipe > has 2 extra sleeves below the waterline to allow corroded sections of > the inner sleeve to be removed and replced. At the inboard > connection, a bracket with 2 X 1967 Chev'y motor mounts takes most of > the vibration out of the system. > > It is worth pointing out that there is no advantage to using this > system if the motor is under the cockpit. The exhaust in Brent's > design seems to have worked well for years--I see no point in > changing it. > > My motivation in placing the motor further amidships was to get > wheight down and forward. This seems to have worked well so far. > The true test will come with the mast and sails in service. If I can > borrow a digital camera we will get some pictures. > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III" wrote: > > > > Hi Ted , you will find a new underwater mufler on offer on ebay > > for 50$ see also : > > http://www.marine-exhaust.com/marine/products/underwater.ht > > ml > > Old Ben > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "edward_stoneuk" > > wrote: > > > > > > Richy, > > > > > > I would be very interested in any pictures or further information > > > you might have on your underwater exhaust. > > > > > > Regards, > > > Ted | 6850|6837|2005-02-11 07:31:18|Charles Leblanc|Re: Putting an industrial diesel in a sailboat|Old Ben Can you provide me with some links or information about an hydraulic link setup for a catamaran. I have been toying with that idea for a fairly long time and since I started to design my boat lately, I would like to know a bit more on this to see if I could... or should put it in my design. Have a nice day Charles --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III" wrote: > > Hi Rollie , see previous post about the variable pitchprop & > the dieselengines conversion in Files , you may not forget > to ad up the price for all the extra gear you will need , between > the engine & the prop , you could consider beltdrive as an > option or also hydraulique link as done on cats with 1 engine > and two props . > Aircooled is usual much noisyer than watercooled . > Some questions : what kinda engine for what kinda boat :-) > where are you located ? any mecanical skills ? > There are some real marinedieselunits out there for a bargain > if you know where to look :-) > Old Ben > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "kingsknight4life" > wrote: > > > > Hi. > > I have the opportunity to buy a diesel engine at what looks to be > a > > good price. It isn't a marine diesel but I heard from someone I > know > > that he can convert them "relatively" easily. Can an engine from > a > > genset or a refer unit be used to power a sailboat? The reason > I ask > > is I remember hearing somewhere that the engines used in > such > > applications are only made to be run at a constant rpm and > this > > seems like it might not work in a boat??? Any advice or help > would be > > appreciated. > > Thanks, > > Rollie | 6851|6837|2005-02-11 13:05:32|Puck III|Re: Putting an industrial diesel in a sailboat|Hi Charles , please post some more information about the cat , the projected : -Hulltype ( displacement or planing ? monohydron ? ) -Waterline and overall lenght -Service displacement & -Fully loaded displacement -For what kind of work ? or and -desired speedrange & range -max service trust wanted -What kind of engine(s) are you thinking of : -HP , couple , rpm ? Maybe you can direct me to a similar already existing boat ? Any pics to have an idea of what your thinking of ? Have a nice weekend :-) Old Ben --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Charles Leblanc" wrote: > > Old Ben > > Can you provide me with some links or information about an hydraulic > link setup for a catamaran. > I have been toying with that idea for a fairly long time and since I > started to design my boat lately, I would like to know a bit more on > this to see if I could... or should put it in my design. > > Have a nice day > > Charles > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III" wrote: > > > > Hi Rollie , see previous post about the variable pitchprop & > > the dieselengines conversion in Files , you may not forget > > to ad up the price for all the extra gear you will need , between > > the engine & the prop , you could consider beltdrive as an > > option or also hydraulique link as done on cats with 1 engine > > and two props . > > Aircooled is usual much noisyer than watercooled . > > Some questions : what kinda engine for what kinda boat :-) > > where are you located ? any mecanical skills ? > > There are some real marinedieselunits out there for a bargain > > if you know where to look :-) > > Old Ben > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "kingsknight4life" > > wrote: > > > > > > Hi. > > > I have the opportunity to buy a diesel engine at what looks to be > > a > > > good price. It isn't a marine diesel but I heard from someone I > > know > > > that he can convert them "relatively" easily. Can an engine from > > a > > > genset or a refer unit be used to power a sailboat? The reason > > I ask > > > is I remember hearing somewhere that the engines used in > > such > > > applications are only made to be run at a constant rpm and > > this > > > seems like it might not work in a boat??? Any advice or help > > would be > > > appreciated. > > > Thanks, > > > Rollie | 6852|6825|2005-02-11 13:44:02|richytill|Re: seatrials - underwater exhaust|Ted, the through-hull above the waterline in Brents' design has obvious advantages. The underwater system is plenty quiet without a muffler. The one-way valve is part of a pile of industrial left- overs I picked through. All the surplus stuff I use is like new-- industry seems so wateful but they can't afford to take chances in some systems so they just replace whole sections. All the material was 316 ss and at 2", the right size for the job. If your motor is as per the plan--probably best to stick to the plan: it works. Is your motor in position at this point? rt --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "edward_stoneuk" wrote: > > Richy, > Many thanks for the info. I am interested in the non-return valve; > is it full bore? Did you make or buy? Is the system quiet enough > without a muffler? Brent's system is very good with the through > hull above water, but I was wondering about reducing the pipe run > through the storage space by the side of the cockpit and making a > tidy transom. > Regards, > Ted > > > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "richytill" wrote: > > > > Ted, The system works well for My Island with the engine located > > close a-midships. A stainless flex pipe comes off the engine; > joins > > a vertical 2" 316 ss pipe that extends up close to the underside > of > > the deck; the pipe goes outboard for 14" and then down through the > > hull at the doubler plate inboard of the chine. > > > > So imagine a "n" shape starting at the engine and exiting in the > > water below the chine. > > > > A 2" ss one way valve keeps water from coming back up if the motor > > runs backwards or whatever. The exit point at the hull has a > gusset > > and 1/4" doubler to support the load and reduce vibration. The > pipe > > has 2 extra sleeves below the waterline to allow corroded sections > of > > the inner sleeve to be removed and replced. At the inboard > > connection, a bracket with 2 X 1967 Chev'y motor mounts takes most > of > > the vibration out of the system. > > > > It is worth pointing out that there is no advantage to using this > > system if the motor is under the cockpit. The exhaust in Brent's > > design seems to have worked well for years--I see no point in > > changing it. > > > > My motivation in placing the motor further amidships was to get > > wheight down and forward. This seems to have worked well so far. > > The true test will come with the mast and sails in service. If I > can > > borrow a digital camera we will get some pictures. > > > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III" > wrote: > > > > > > Hi Ted , you will find a new underwater mufler on offer on ebay > > > for 50$ see also : > > > http://www.marine-exhaust.com/marine/products/underwater.ht > > > ml > > > Old Ben > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "edward_stoneuk" > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Richy, > > > > > > > > I would be very interested in any pictures or further > information > > > > you might have on your underwater exhaust. > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > Ted | 6853|6853|2005-02-12 15:44:53|John Jones|Photo's|Alex, I love all these new photo's .... I feel that maybe I did'nt phuck up the build. I've got a hull now. I need a deck & a house.| 6854|6837|2005-02-12 17:15:07|denis buggy|Re: Putting an industrial diesel in a sailboat|dear Charles the industrial engine topic has a lot already written on file however your hydraulic drive idea is used in some boats already such as the boden steel cat in Australia . the basic idea in this boat is to use a 40 hp engine centrally mounted and feeding reversible hydraulic motors in each ama in order to provide mavourability using very simple controls and the ability to site all items in the most convenient place and it takes up very little space and requires little or no maintenance . however the loss of efficiency makes the use of this simple system un common and you would not motor for great distances on this arrangement . I gave boden 35 aus dollars for a study plan and was conned I got un readable cloudy e mail which was designed to be useless in case you might actually learn something , however you get no warning and their web site looks above board and professional abandon hope all ye who enter here . . for quality and affordable hydraulics motors use white hydraulics available worldwide , they make their motors differently from the rest and have high torque at low revs /fluid flow . regards Denis ----- Original Message ----- From: Charles Leblanc To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, February 11, 2005 12:31 PM Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Putting an industrial diesel in a sailboat Old Ben Can you provide me with some links or information about an hydraulic link setup for a catamaran. I have been toying with that idea for a fairly long time and since I started to design my boat lately, I would like to know a bit more on this to see if I could... or should put it in my design. Have a nice day Charles --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III" wrote: > > Hi Rollie , see previous post about the variable pitchprop & > the dieselengines conversion in Files , you may not forget > to ad up the price for all the extra gear you will need , between > the engine & the prop , you could consider beltdrive as an > option or also hydraulique link as done on cats with 1 engine > and two props . > Aircooled is usual much noisyer than watercooled . > Some questions : what kinda engine for what kinda boat :-) > where are you located ? any mecanical skills ? > There are some real marinedieselunits out there for a bargain > if you know where to look :-) > Old Ben > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "kingsknight4life" > wrote: > > > > Hi. > > I have the opportunity to buy a diesel engine at what looks to be > a > > good price. It isn't a marine diesel but I heard from someone I > know > > that he can convert them "relatively" easily. Can an engine from > a > > genset or a refer unit be used to power a sailboat? The reason > I ask > > is I remember hearing somewhere that the engines used in > such > > applications are only made to be run at a constant rpm and > this > > seems like it might not work in a boat??? Any advice or help > would be > > appreciated. > > Thanks, > > Rollie To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links a.. To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/ b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 6855|6825|2005-02-12 17:51:53|edward_stoneuk|Re: seatrials - underwater exhaust|Richy, The motor isn't in yet. We are still putting on the handrails before we lift it up to put the skeg and keels on. I do not have as much spare time now as when I started and have gotten a bit behind. The intention is to put the motor in where it is in the plans. Regards, Ted| 6856|6856|2005-02-12 20:29:25|RICHARD KOKEMOOR|Weston Farmer Cherub|Anyone know anything about this 23 foot steel design, said to be "framless"? --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search presents - Jib Jab's 'Second Term' [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]| 6857|6856|2005-02-12 21:39:29|Paul Cotter|Re: Weston Farmer Cherub|Richard, If my memory serves, there is a review of the design in an issue of the Metal Boat Quarterly from several years ago. Check the Metal Boat Society website; there is a table of contents for all issues. I’ve been meaning to track down the issue as well, but it has fallen down the list a bit. Paul -----Original Message----- From: RICHARD KOKEMOOR [mailto:rhko47@...] Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2005 4:29 PM To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Subject: [origamiboats] Weston Farmer Cherub Anyone know anything about this 23 foot steel design, said to be "framless"? --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search presents - Jib Jab's 'Second Term' [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT _____ Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]| 6858|6644|2005-02-13 12:26:34|Puck III|Re: origami ply??|Please have a look at this Repository : http://groups.yahoo.com/group/OrigamiPlyBoatDesign/ nothing new under the sun realy Old Ben --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "pvanderwaart" wrote: > > I have some reservations about origami in plywood. It's not so much a > question of "could you?" but of "should you?" There are two basic > points. > > First, when you bend ply, you stretch the outside layer and compress > the inner layer. Since the layers have grain in one direction or > another, the result may depend on the direction of the bend. If the > bend tends to pull the grain apart, the outer layer may have a > pronouced tendancy to check, especially if it is not protected from > the water, e.g. by an epoxy/cloth sheathing. The compression forces > on the inside may also do damage if the bend is too severe for the > thickness of the plywood. Taken together, these problems may mean > that the thickest ply that can take the bends may be too thin for the > weight of the boat. You can compensate by sheathing (with glass or > veneers) or with interior frames and stringers, but that loses the > advantage of orimai construction. > > The second problem is that although the origami technique can give a > good shape for a cruising sailboat, the range of shapes that can be > produced this way is limited, especially if you avoid small-radius > bends for the reasons given above. Many small boat shapes have quite > tight turns at the bilge. > > So, I am sure it is workable if the boat is light enough for its > length, and if you can get the shape you want, but it does come with > limitations. And, if you interest is boating (and not boat-building), > you should concentrate on the boat you want, not on the construction > method. > > I might also add that modern stitch & glue methods of building > epoxy/ply boats have most of the advantages of origami, without the > limitations. > > Peter | 6859|6644|2005-02-13 13:02:38|Gerd|Re: origami ply??|> Please have a look at this Repository : > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/OrigamiPlyBoatDesign/ > nothing new under the sun realy > Old Ben Exactly - from what you can see on the pic this might be just the same pattern. The German stuff from Yacht I know, and Dr. Seggers must have had his advertisements in the yacht for a quarter of a century already. Ben, you seem to create groups and sites all over the place.. ;-) difficult to follow. Gerd| 6860|6644|2005-02-13 14:34:33|Puck III|Re: origami ply??|Nobody has to follow , everybody is free in the free world , at least I think so :-) Don't forget the old Dutch saying : If you can't join them , beat them...... and that's what they do cause of their good business nose :-) Forget about the Ply in here , its not in the topic , and tell us more about your design-evolutions .... you sure have me curious . The Belgian Boatshow in Ghent Belgium started saterday , wow a lot of interest , not many sales . May be they'r all waiting for that special new Starter :-) I see the Schwertomane next week , we will see what its gone be :-) , we sure had a lot of respons already , real enthousiasm I must say , but that aint enough dont you think so ? I hope you like the designgoal wish was projected , and I forgot to tell you : designed to classification and with CEE real stability testing for the selfrighting over the 360° on flatwater !!!! I'l post the pics for you , on the other hand you could come up with the same boat , but sure not with as many options or do you start liking the options ? I hope soo. Can I pull a Joke ? When Saint Nicolas arrives on the Schelde he usualy comes in from Spain on a Steamboat , and not on an Icebreacker :-) The artist for who this joke is intended sure understands reluctantly ???? Hope you saw da pic in the Fun section files in da new Repository :-) --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Gerd" wrote: > > > > Please have a look at this Repository : > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/OrigamiPlyBoatDesign/ > > nothing new under the sun realy > > Old Ben > Exactly - from what you can see on the pic this might be just the > same pattern. The German stuff from Yacht I know, and Dr. Seggers > must have had his advertisements in the yacht for a quarter of a > century already. > Ben, you seem to create groups and sites all over the place.. ;-) > difficult to follow. > > Gerd | 6861|6644|2005-02-13 15:17:06|Gerd|Re: origami ply??|> selfrighting over the 360° on flatwater !!!! an AVS of near 180 is not necessarily my design goal, I must say... Also I am not really convinced that the completely frame&stringerless design a la strongall et al is a good thing. Seems always a bit on the heavy side as you have to stiffen the shell considerably by adding thickness/weight. Looks to me like you get a boat almost as heavy as a "light" steel-on-structure hull by paying for a lot of thick, expensive alloy - does not make sense to me. These boats are very clean inside, and under condition that you could fold thick material just as easily, you would indeed win working hours, and yes, they are strong, but at a price I would not want to pay in amateur construction. Have not really worked that out though. But please... lets not get into another frame-flame here ;-) > Hope you saw da pic in the Fun section files in da new > Repository :-) sorry, no, members only... :-(| 6862|6644|2005-02-13 17:32:32|Puck III|Re: origami ply or Aluminum|Hi Gerd , here I come again , --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Gerd" wrote: > > > > selfrighting over the 360° on flatwater !!!! without the selfrighting no offshore in the EU , and safer it is , for any boat ,cause if we make her unsinkable like the Belgian Etap , it sure feels better to be able to sail her home afther lets say a hullpuncture rather than to sit in an inflatable liferaft , waiting for outside help ( you still have the beer around and all your goodies to keep the moral high , and may be you can repair the damage and pump that water out :-) > > an AVS of near 180 is not necessarily my design goal, I must say... > > Also I am not really convinced that the completely > frame&stringerless design a la strongall et al is a good thing. > Seems always a bit on the heavy side as you have to stiffen the > shell considerably by adding thickness/weight. Looks to me like you > get a boat almost as heavy as a "light" steel-on-structure hull by > paying for a lot of thick, expensive alloy - does not make sense to > me. These boats are very clean inside, and under condition that you > could fold thick material just as easily, you would indeed win > working hours, and yes, they are strong, but at a price I would not > want to pay in amateur construction. Have not really worked that out > though. > But please... lets not get into another frame-flame here ;-) See the Pic of the Frameless Rando ( 8mX2.8mxO.3m) 1500kg empty in AG4 5&6mm ; do you realy think the weight of the Aluminum for that boat is high ? and how much is that gonne influence on the total cost ? Not much , I have already figured that out :-) OK I give you 1 point : the comment about amateur build . The amateur can do all the preliminary work and will have to hire a real professional welder for 50 manhours :-) Cause those Pro Welders with their usual expertise are the only ones I would realy trust to do the Job , between us I think the same about welding a metal hull . Even if I can do it I bye my daily bread at the backery ( tastyer ) when I feel sick I consult a doctor ( safer ) even if I can weld I trust that ProWelder more , cause my life depends on it , and there is nothing worth more than that peacefull tranquility afther having payed him a decend wage. Same goes of course for the architect or designer , cause as you stated before its quite difficult to design that simple small boat , and the research involved is dammed more difficult than for a larger boat.( at least in my eyes ) Da pic in da FunFile is to reduce the stress from boatdesigning, I talk to much , gonne have a beer . Cheers Old Ben > > > Hope you saw da pic in the Fun section files in da new > > Repository :-) > sorry, no, members only... :-( | 6863|6644|2005-02-13 18:39:45|Gerd|Re: origami ply or Aluminum|> > > selfrighting over the 360° on flatwater !!!! > without the selfrighting no offshore in the EU Ben, there is no requirement for an AVS of 180 and 360 positive stability in the EU. Also, as I said, the combinations of hulls, weights superstructures and so on that will give you near 180 are really not my cup of tea. ;-) As for professional welding: At the risk of shocking some people here, I think amateur builders could maybe relax a bit on that. I have seen a lot of very crappy steel welds on boats and have never seen any loss of boat due to that. I have seen welds opening splits near to the weld but really parallel to it in the plate, due to excessive overgrinding for cosmetic reasons. in these cases water came in at an annoying but not dangerous rate, the sheet around and the weld further on were still as strong - more like seams springing a bit on planked wooden hulls. Yes, I have seen and heard about boats lost because appendices broke off but that was not the weld that was in cause - see a VERY lengthy thread on that last year ;-) By all means, get a professional welder, and if you do it yourself you should take welding serious, learn and practise, but it's not magic or rocket science. All this for steel - I have no personal experience with welding alloy but from what I hear, it's more tricky. What you should get from a good welder is a clean sweet hull... but not always, I have seen boats welded by professionals that knew it all and they got so much deformation into the plating that the boats looked really nasty. I am not really a good welder (although j'ai mon brevet de chaudronnier tole mince ;-) and I do get quite a bit of deformation in thinner plating, but I get along, and I NEVER managed to break any of my own welds even when trying hard. Truely structure-free hulls: I understand that a commercial yard may compensate the price for thick plating with reduced man-hours (less welding, no structure to build in, less fairing etc), but for any given hull and its resistance a thin skin on structure will be lighter than a thick skin without structure. Having said that, Meta was not really cheap last time I checked... OK, it does not make that big a difference in the overall budget, but on priciple I am not yet conviced that that it is valid for the amateur. bakeries: I make my own bread when I can ;-) Gerd --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III" wrote: > > Hi Gerd , here I come again , > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Gerd" > wrote: > > > > > > > selfrighting over the 360° on flatwater !!!! > > without the selfrighting no offshore in the EU , > and safer it is , for any boat ,cause if we make her > unsinkable like the Belgian Etap , it sure feels better to > be able to sail her home afther lets say a hullpuncture > rather than to sit in an inflatable liferaft , waiting for > outside help ( you still have the beer around and all > your goodies to keep the moral high , and may be you > can repair the damage and pump that water out :-) > > > > an AVS of near 180 is not necessarily my design goal, I must > say... > > > > Also I am not really convinced that the completely > > frame&stringerless design a la strongall et al is a good thing. > > Seems always a bit on the heavy side as you have to stiffen the > > shell considerably by adding thickness/weight. Looks to me > like you > > get a boat almost as heavy as a "light" steel-on-structure hull > by > > paying for a lot of thick, expensive alloy - does not make sense > to > > me. These boats are very clean inside, and under condition > that you > > could fold thick material just as easily, you would indeed win > > working hours, and yes, they are strong, but at a price I would > not > > want to pay in amateur construction. Have not really worked > that out > > though. > > But please... lets not get into another frame-flame here ;-) > > See the Pic of the Frameless Rando ( 8mX2.8mxO.3m) > 1500kg empty in AG4 5&6mm ; do you realy think the weight > of the Aluminum for that boat is high ? and how much is that > gonne influence on the total cost ? Not much , I have already > figured that out :-) > OK I give you 1 point : the comment about amateur build . > The amateur can do all the preliminary work and will have to > hire a real professional welder for 50 manhours :-) > Cause those Pro Welders with their usual expertise are the > only ones I would realy trust to do the Job , between us I think > the same about welding a metal hull . > Even if I can do it I bye my daily bread at the backery ( tastyer ) > when I feel sick I consult a doctor ( safer ) > even if I can weld I trust that ProWelder more , cause my life > depends on it , and there is nothing worth more than that > peacefull tranquility afther having payed him a decend wage. > Same goes of course for the architect or designer , cause > as you stated before its quite difficult to design that simple > small boat , and the research involved is dammed more > difficult than for a larger boat.( at least in my eyes ) > > Da pic in da FunFile is to reduce the stress from boatdesigning, > I talk to much , gonne have a beer . Cheers > Old Ben > > > > > > Hope you saw da pic in the Fun section files in da new > > > Repository :-) > > sorry, no, members only... :-( | 6864|6864|2005-02-13 20:33:26|carlmbentley|cheap anchor|found a cheap "bruce" knock off on ebay. for less than 100$ check it out. no clue as to the quality, guess i'll find out the hard way. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ViewItem&item=4526041436&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWN%3AIT sorry if that link is all fouled up. can also just search for bruce on ebay. they come out of a foundry British Columbia, judging by the mailing address.| 6865|6644|2005-02-13 22:02:09|edt_978|Re: origami ply??|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Gerd" wrote: > > Please have a look at this Repository : > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/OrigamiPlyBoatDesign/ > > nothing new under the sun realy > > Old Ben > Exactly - from what you can see on the pic this might be just the > same pattern. The German stuff from Yacht I know, and Dr. Seggers > must have had his advertisements in the yacht for a quarter of a > century already. > Ben, you seem to create groups and sites all over the place.. ;-) > difficult to follow. This idea is also use by B&B in their kayak and coresound plans. See: http://www.bandbyachtdesigns.com/ Having built one of their kayaks I can say it works just fine. Ed| 6866|6644|2005-02-13 23:28:22|pascalibook|Re: origami ply??|Hi Ed , thanks for that usefull info , I just uploaded it in Links in the OrigamiPlyBoatDesign Group . Ply and Aluminum are sheet-materials , I wonder if one could build the same boat as in the Link in an Aluminum-Wood composite ? Thanks again , have a nice day --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "edt_978" wrote: > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Gerd" wrote: > > > Please have a look at this Repository : > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/OrigamiPlyBoatDesign/ > > > nothing new under the sun realy > > > Old Ben > > Exactly - from what you can see on the pic this might be just the > > same pattern. The German stuff from Yacht I know, and Dr. Seggers > > must have had his advertisements in the yacht for a quarter of a > > century already. > > Ben, you seem to create groups and sites all over the place.. ;-) > > difficult to follow. > > This idea is also use by B&B in their kayak and coresound plans. > See: http://www.bandbyachtdesigns.com/ > Having built one of their kayaks I can say it works just fine. > > Ed | 6867|6644|2005-02-14 03:31:59|edward_stoneuk|Re: origami ply or Aluminum|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III" wrote: > > without the selfrighting no offshore in the EU , > and safer it is , Ben, It is my understanding that the stability requirement for the European Union's Recreational Craft Directive for ballasted monohulls boats Category A, which is the offshore classification, is that the ISO 12217-2 angle of vanishing stability (AVS) is greater than 130°-(2x mass) but always equal to or greater than 100°. The Belgian ETAP 37 has an AVS of 122°. The French Beneteau 50 has an AVS of 109°. Both are Category A boats. The British Contessa 32, which is well thought of as a very seaworthy boat has an AVS of 155°. The British Fisher yachts have an AVS of 180°. In general Category A boats tend to be in the 120° to 130° range. Regards, Ted| 6868|6644|2005-02-14 07:08:58|Puck III|Re: origami ply or Aluminum|Hi Ted , we had a long debate about the CEE rules in here allready ; some rules are fine others less fine . I have a Fastnet Race in mind where the French skipper Alain Cattelinau saved many lives with his smaller S&S designed cruiser racer . Alain was elected Yachtman of the year that year ( a great credit to the designers ) We had flaming arguments about " Responsabilities " all over the nautical press that year. Designers should have their superstructures right !!!!! Please have a look at an unofficial site: http://www.xs4all.nl/~blvrd/ the playground for racers and architects :-) Today anybody can do stability calculations over the all 360° , superstructures included for a small investment: http://www.navaldesigner.com I believe its the architect or designer's priviledge to lay out his designgoal and make the boat performs has he wants for the job he intends , even if he has to go back to the drawingtable more than he expected :-) Anything wrong with the total selfrighting ? and or floatability ? Its not a must , some people cross the Atlantic on a HobbyCat :-) A CEE certification ? for a serie product ? Let's see the pics of the regulatory tests and the acceptance and certification papers with the needed stamps :-) I like to place the jumping bar high , nothing wrong with that. Lets talk about the boat later ( it sure aint going to be a Meta style heavy boat , as Gerd is suggesting , and about the price of the building kit .......... most important subject : I'll to my best to have it build for a price you cant say no to :-) I am off to the Belgian Boatshow now , to see the professional byers , cause with boats its like with planes today : what are you ordering or bying from me ??? Other smalltalk is irrelevant , dont you think so ? Regards Old Ben --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "edward_stoneuk" wrote: > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III" wrote: > > > > > without the selfrighting no offshore in the EU , > > and safer it is , > > > Ben, > It is my understanding that the stability requirement for the > European Union's Recreational Craft Directive for ballasted > monohulls boats Category A, which is the offshore classification, is > that the ISO 12217-2 angle of vanishing stability (AVS) is greater > than 130°-(2x mass) but always equal to or greater than 100°. The > Belgian ETAP 37 has an AVS of 122°. The French Beneteau 50 has an > AVS of 109°. Both are Category A boats. The British Contessa 32, > which is well thought of as a very seaworthy boat has an AVS of > 155°. The British Fisher yachts have an AVS of 180°. In general > Category A boats tend to be in the 120° to 130° range. > Regards, > Ted | 6869|6644|2005-02-14 07:30:21|edward_stoneuk|Re: origami ply or Aluminum|Ben, I agree with you the AVS Category A requirement seems a bit small for a blue water boat. Nothing wrong with unsinkability and self righting at all. I had assumed that you thought it was a requirement for an EU registered boat. Do you use Naval Designer software when you design your boats? Regards, Ted| 6870|6644|2005-02-14 07:39:03|Gerd|Re: origami ply or Aluminum|> Anything wrong with the total selfrighting ? and or floatability ? Nothing wrong with selfrighting, Ben, I just do not like the type of hulls/weights/drafts/superstructures etc you get for 360 positive. Show me a boat I like with 360, preferably with inside ballast and boards, and we'll discuss the issue ;-) Floatability is a completely different topic, can be obtained on any boat if you want it and sacrifice the volume (spread it itelligently). I do not take that lightly, and I do not believe much in inflatable liferafts myself. Some 20 years ago my sister and her friend John crossed back from Brazil in the winter, must have had a nasty collision and they were found both dead of cold and exhaustion in their intact raft 50 miles off the Scillies. I do not take security lightly, but I do stress the individual's right and obligation to make informed and personal choices. Gerd The Yago Project at http://www.justmueller.com/boats/| 6871|6864|2005-02-14 08:38:58|Bill Jaine|Re: cheap anchor|For my money the one item that you never go cheap on is the anchor, wait until you are out there in a blow and you�ll wish you had spent the extra on the anchor size, chain and rode. Bill Port Hope. Canada -----Original Message----- From: carlmbentley [mailto:carlmbentley@...] Sent: 13-Feb-05 8:33 PM To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Subject: [origamiboats] cheap anchor found a cheap "bruce" knock off on ebay. for less than 100$ check it out. no clue as to the quality, guess i'll find out the hard way. HYPERLINK "http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?"http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymo tors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ViewItem&item=4526041436&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWN%3AIT sorry if that link is all fouled up. can also just search for bruce on ebay. they come out of a foundry British Columbia, judging by the mailing address. To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT HYPERLINK "http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=129pd5df2/M=298184.6018725.7038619.3001176/D=gr oups/S=1705150872:HM/EXP=1108431206/A=2532114/R=2/SIG=12k2a2p55/*http:/clk.a tdmt.com/NFX/go/yhxxxnfx0020000014nfx/direct/01/&time=1108344806929851" \n HYPERLINK "http://view.atdmt.com/NFX/view/yhxxxnfx0020000014nfx/direct/01/&time=110834 4806929851" HYPERLINK "http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?M=298184.6018725.7038619.3001176/D=groups/S= :HM/A=2532114/rand=330323250" _____ Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: HYPERLINK "http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/"http://groups.yahoo.com/group/o rigamiboats/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HYPERLINK "mailto:origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe"origami boats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the HYPERLINK "http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/"Yahoo! Terms of Service. -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.8.7 - Release Date: 10/02/2005 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.8.7 - Release Date: 10/02/2005 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]| 6872|6864|2005-02-14 08:55:17|Courtney Thomas|Re: cheap anchor|I second the opinion on advising against lesser quality anchors. Could cost you everything :-( Anyway, what I wrote about is to tell you that I bought a real Bruce last year on Ebay and that if you're patient you will get a shot at a Bruce and/or other originals. Originals are not cheap though, but how cheap is it if you wind up on the rocks. Another suggestion is to use the newsgroup - rec.boats.marketplace I got a Luke, i.e. Fisherman from a seller there. Good luck, Courtney carlmbentley wrote: > > found a cheap "bruce" knock off on ebay. for less than 100$ check it > out. no clue as to the quality, guess i'll find out the hard way. > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? > ViewItem&item=4526041436&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWN%3AIT > > sorry if that link is all fouled up. can also just search for bruce > on ebay. they come out of a foundry British Columbia, judging by the > mailing address. > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > -- s/v Mutiny Rhodes Bounty II lying Oriental, NC WDB5619| 6873|6864|2005-02-14 12:43:26|Alex Christie|home-built anchor|Brent made his own Spade (I think) anchor, and it cost very little compared to buying one cheap and of unknown quality. I believe he used high tensile steel for the shank--- if you've got the equipment set up for building a steel boat, then building a steel anchor is easy! Cheap in cost doesn't have to mean low quality, and building it yourself means you know exactly what you are getting. I'd much prefer my home-built anchor to a cheap knock-off, for the same money (don't forget the high cost of shipping a 50 -75 lb anchor you may win on eBay). The point is to get something that will hold well and not self-destruct under extreme circumstances, and the only way to know for sure if you've got the right metallurgy is to source the steel bits yourself and build it (or have someone put it together under your direction). I'll see if we can post some instructions on building one according to the pattern he used. Alex| 6875|6864|2005-02-14 17:17:03|brentswain38|Re: home-built anchor|Actually we built delta anchors, but I plan to try spades soon. Three of us got together, me on the welder, Wynn on the torch and Andy on the grinder and built ten in two days. Thats $6,000 worth of anchors ,at retail price, in two days. One was sold to pay for the materials and we took three each. We used either AR plate or T1 for the shanks and mild steel for the flukes , using 7018 rod for welding the high tensile steel. They could have easily been made with removeable shanks like the spades, not neccessary for the main anchors, but a good idea for the spares. I've heard that a commonly available high tensile plate called QT100 is better for galvanizing, but it didn't appear to have affected the AR or T1 noticeably. It would be extremely foolish for anyone with the steel working tools and abilities needed to build a boat, to buy an anchor, at their current horrendous prices . Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Alex Christie wrote: > Brent made his own Spade (I think) anchor, and it cost very little > compared to buying one cheap and of unknown quality. I believe he used > high tensile steel for the shank--- if you've got the equipment set up > for building a steel boat, then building a steel anchor is easy! Cheap > in cost doesn't have to mean low quality, and building it yourself > means you know exactly what you are getting. I'd much prefer my > home-built anchor to a cheap knock-off, for the same money (don't > forget the high cost of shipping a 50 -75 lb anchor you may win on > eBay). The point is to get something that will hold well and not > self-destruct under extreme circumstances, and the only way to know for > sure if you've got the right metallurgy is to source the steel bits > yourself and build it (or have someone put it together under your > direction). > > I'll see if we can post some instructions on building one according to > the pattern he used. > > Alex | 6876|6644|2005-02-14 17:26:11|brentswain38|Re: origami ply or Aluminum|They have been crossing oceans in wooden boats for centuries and they usually make it. How does even a doubtful weld compare in strength with that of a copper fastening in red cedar every 6 inches? I like to let the owners make their first ever weld , putting the loops for the comealongs on the plate before pulling the hull together. When they have done their work, I let the owners try to break them off with a sledgehammer. When they are exhuasted and dripping with sweat, without having broken the weld, I ask tham" Are you still worried about weld strength? Try that on a fibreglass hull." Chances of having a weld fail, if you haven't ground it all off, in the size of boat that we are dealing with here, are extremely remote. Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Gerd" wrote: > > > > > selfrighting over the 360° on flatwater !!!! > > without the selfrighting no offshore in the EU > > Ben, there is no requirement for an AVS of 180 and 360 positive > stability in the EU. Also, as I said, the combinations of hulls, > weights superstructures and so on that will give you near 180 are > really not my cup of tea. ;-) > > As for professional welding: At the risk of shocking some people > here, I think amateur builders could maybe relax a bit on that. I > have seen a lot of very crappy steel welds on boats and have never > seen any loss of boat due to that. I have seen welds opening splits > near to the weld but really parallel to it in the plate, due to > excessive overgrinding for cosmetic reasons. in these cases water > came in at an annoying but not dangerous rate, the sheet around and > the weld further on were still as strong - more like seams springing > a bit on planked wooden hulls. > > Yes, I have seen and heard about boats lost because appendices broke > off but that was not the weld that was in cause - see a VERY lengthy > thread on that last year ;-) > > By all means, get a professional welder, and if you do it yourself > you should take welding serious, learn and practise, but it's not > magic or rocket science. > > All this for steel - I have no personal experience with welding > alloy but from what I hear, it's more tricky. > > What you should get from a good welder is a clean sweet hull... but > not always, I have seen boats welded by professionals that knew it > all and they got so much deformation into the plating that the boats > looked really nasty. I am not really a good welder (although j'ai > mon brevet de chaudronnier tole mince ;-) and I do get quite a bit > of deformation in thinner plating, but I get along, and I NEVER > managed to break any of my own welds even when trying hard. > > Truely structure-free hulls: I understand that a commercial yard may > compensate the price for thick plating with reduced man-hours (less > welding, no structure to build in, less fairing etc), but for any > given hull and its resistance a thin skin on structure will be > lighter than a thick skin without structure. Having said that, Meta > was not really cheap last time I checked... OK, it does not make > that big a difference in the overall budget, but on priciple I am > not yet conviced that that it is valid for the amateur. > > bakeries: I make my own bread when I can ;-) > > Gerd > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III" wrote: > > > > Hi Gerd , here I come again , > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Gerd" > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > selfrighting over the 360° on flatwater !!!! > > > > without the selfrighting no offshore in the EU , > > and safer it is , for any boat ,cause if we make her > > unsinkable like the Belgian Etap , it sure feels better to > > be able to sail her home afther lets say a hullpuncture > > rather than to sit in an inflatable liferaft , waiting for > > outside help ( you still have the beer around and all > > your goodies to keep the moral high , and may be you > > can repair the damage and pump that water out :-) > > > > > > an AVS of near 180 is not necessarily my design goal, I must > > say... > > > > > > Also I am not really convinced that the completely > > > frame&stringerless design a la strongall et al is a good thing. > > > Seems always a bit on the heavy side as you have to stiffen the > > > shell considerably by adding thickness/weight. Looks to me > > like you > > > get a boat almost as heavy as a "light" steel-on-structure hull > > by > > > paying for a lot of thick, expensive alloy - does not make sense > > to > > > me. These boats are very clean inside, and under condition > > that you > > > could fold thick material just as easily, you would indeed win > > > working hours, and yes, they are strong, but at a price I would > > not > > > want to pay in amateur construction. Have not really worked > > that out > > > though. > > > But please... lets not get into another frame-flame here ;-) > > > > See the Pic of the Frameless Rando ( 8mX2.8mxO.3m) > > 1500kg empty in AG4 5&6mm ; do you realy think the weight > > of the Aluminum for that boat is high ? and how much is that > > gonne influence on the total cost ? Not much , I have already > > figured that out :-) > > OK I give you 1 point : the comment about amateur build . > > The amateur can do all the preliminary work and will have to > > hire a real professional welder for 50 manhours :-) > > Cause those Pro Welders with their usual expertise are the > > only ones I would realy trust to do the Job , between us I think > > the same about welding a metal hull . > > Even if I can do it I bye my daily bread at the backery ( tastyer ) > > when I feel sick I consult a doctor ( safer ) > > even if I can weld I trust that ProWelder more , cause my life > > depends on it , and there is nothing worth more than that > > peacefull tranquility afther having payed him a decend wage. > > Same goes of course for the architect or designer , cause > > as you stated before its quite difficult to design that simple > > small boat , and the research involved is dammed more > > difficult than for a larger boat.( at least in my eyes ) > > > > Da pic in da FunFile is to reduce the stress from boatdesigning, > > I talk to much , gonne have a beer . Cheers > > Old Ben > > > > > > > > > Hope you saw da pic in the Fun section files in da new > > > > Repository :-) > > > sorry, no, members only... :-( | 6877|6864|2005-02-14 17:35:23|brentswain38|Re: cheap anchor|Both the British and the Germans did tests on Bruce anchors, plows and danforths. They both found that pound for pound, a Bruce has roughly half the holding power of a plow or danforth. There is also the "Bruce Rock" which fits the bruce perfectly and won't shake out. If the rode takes a turn around the shank of a bruce it won't shake off and the fouled bruce will drag forever. If the Bruce can't find solid bottom in the first foot of depth it wil drag forever without biting in. Friends with a new boat put their new 35 lb bruce down, threw their 18HP sabb in reverse and dragged the bruce the length of Nanaimo harbour. They tried again with the same result. They then put their 35 lb plow down gave her full reverse without moving, then put the bruce on the bow with a "For sale " sign on it . A friend saw the little bruce in the sandbox at the boat show.He took a turn around the shank and dragged it backwards the length of the box, then left. He returned and did it a second time. The third time the salesman said" You're not welcome here." and straightened out the bruce in the sandbox. The bruce anchors that they use on the oil rigs are set with a huge tug to pull in one direction only. Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "carlmbentley" wrote: > > found a cheap "bruce" knock off on ebay. for less than 100$ check it > out. no clue as to the quality, guess i'll find out the hard way. > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? > ViewItem&item=4526041436&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWN%3AIT > > sorry if that link is all fouled up. can also just search for bruce > on ebay. they come out of a foundry British Columbia, judging by the > mailing address. | 6878|6864|2005-02-14 17:39:30|Jim Ragsdale|Re: home-built anchor|So did ya'll get the anchors galvanized? ----- Original Message ----- From: "brentswain38" To: Sent: Monday, February 14, 2005 4:16 PM Subject: [origamiboats] Re: home-built anchor > > > Actually we built delta anchors, but I plan to try spades soon. > Three of us got together, me on the welder, Wynn on the torch and > Andy on the grinder and built ten in two days. Thats $6,000 worth of > anchors ,at retail price, in two days. One was sold to pay for the > materials and we took three each. > We used either AR plate or T1 for the shanks and mild steel for the > flukes , using 7018 rod for welding the high tensile steel. They > could have easily been made with removeable shanks like the spades, > not neccessary for the main anchors, but a good idea for the spares. > I've heard that a commonly available high tensile plate called QT100 > is better for galvanizing, but it didn't appear to have affected the > AR or T1 noticeably. > It would be extremely foolish for anyone with the steel working > tools and abilities needed to build a boat, to buy an anchor, at > their current horrendous prices . > Brent > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Alex Christie > wrote: > > Brent made his own Spade (I think) anchor, and it cost very little > > compared to buying one cheap and of unknown quality. I believe he > used > > high tensile steel for the shank--- if you've got the equipment set > up > > for building a steel boat, then building a steel anchor is easy! > Cheap > > in cost doesn't have to mean low quality, and building it yourself > > means you know exactly what you are getting. I'd much prefer my > > home-built anchor to a cheap knock-off, for the same money (don't > > forget the high cost of shipping a 50 -75 lb anchor you may win on > > eBay). The point is to get something that will hold well and not > > self-destruct under extreme circumstances, and the only way to know > for > > sure if you've got the right metallurgy is to source the steel bits > > yourself and build it (or have someone put it together under your > > direction). > > > > I'll see if we can post some instructions on building one according > to > > the pattern he used. > > > > Alex > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > | 6879|6864|2005-02-14 17:44:17|brentswain38|Re: cheap anchor|The " You only get what you pay for" is a sucker's line used by many a used car salesman to sell lemons. Buying it has kept many a would be sailor tied to the dock making payments. It assumes that there is no such thing as overpricing or ripoffs. It suggests that consumer groups and Ralph Nader had no need to do product research. All they had to do is read the price tags. Assuming the corporate world is that honest is a sucker's game. Homebuilt usually means overbuilt. Commercially manufactured often means that they have had time to nickle and dime strength and reliability right out of a product. A few extra minutes or a bit more material means nothing to the person using the anchor ,but can mean millions lost to a manufacturer of millions of anchors, or any other mass produced item. If you want it built right, build it yourself. Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Courtney Thomas wrote: > I second the opinion on advising against lesser quality anchors. Could > cost you everything :-( > > Anyway, what I wrote about is to tell you that I bought a real Bruce > last year on Ebay and that if you're patient you will get a shot at a > Bruce and/or other originals. > > Originals are not cheap though, but how cheap is it if you wind up on > the rocks. > > Another suggestion is to use the newsgroup - rec.boats.marketplace > > I got a Luke, i.e. Fisherman from a seller there. > > Good luck, > > Courtney > > > > carlmbentley wrote: > > > > > found a cheap "bruce" knock off on ebay. for less than 100$ check it > > out. no clue as to the quality, guess i'll find out the hard way. > > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? > > ViewItem&item=4526041436&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWN%3AIT > > > > sorry if that link is all fouled up. can also just search for bruce > > on ebay. they come out of a foundry British Columbia, judging by the > > mailing address. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats- unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > s/v Mutiny > Rhodes Bounty II > lying Oriental, NC > WDB5619 | 6880|6864|2005-02-14 17:46:22|brentswain38|Re: home-built anchor|Yes. We left the lead ballast chamber empty. It would come back from the galvanizer empty anyway. We then propped the anchor up and poured lead in thru a hole in the back of the chamber. Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Jim Ragsdale" wrote: > So did ya'll get the anchors galvanized? > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "brentswain38" > To: > Sent: Monday, February 14, 2005 4:16 PM > Subject: [origamiboats] Re: home-built anchor > > > > > > > > Actually we built delta anchors, but I plan to try spades soon. > > Three of us got together, me on the welder, Wynn on the torch and > > Andy on the grinder and built ten in two days. Thats $6,000 worth of > > anchors ,at retail price, in two days. One was sold to pay for the > > materials and we took three each. > > We used either AR plate or T1 for the shanks and mild steel for the > > flukes , using 7018 rod for welding the high tensile steel. They > > could have easily been made with removeable shanks like the spades, > > not neccessary for the main anchors, but a good idea for the spares. > > I've heard that a commonly available high tensile plate called QT100 > > is better for galvanizing, but it didn't appear to have affected the > > AR or T1 noticeably. > > It would be extremely foolish for anyone with the steel working > > tools and abilities needed to build a boat, to buy an anchor, at > > their current horrendous prices . > > Brent > > > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Alex Christie > > wrote: > > > Brent made his own Spade (I think) anchor, and it cost very little > > > compared to buying one cheap and of unknown quality. I believe he > > used > > > high tensile steel for the shank--- if you've got the equipment set > > up > > > for building a steel boat, then building a steel anchor is easy! > > Cheap > > > in cost doesn't have to mean low quality, and building it yourself > > > means you know exactly what you are getting. I'd much prefer my > > > home-built anchor to a cheap knock-off, for the same money (don't > > > forget the high cost of shipping a 50 -75 lb anchor you may win on > > > eBay). The point is to get something that will hold well and not > > > self-destruct under extreme circumstances, and the only way to know > > for > > > sure if you've got the right metallurgy is to source the steel bits > > > yourself and build it (or have someone put it together under your > > > direction). > > > > > > I'll see if we can post some instructions on building one according > > to > > > the pattern he used. > > > > > > Alex > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > | 6881|6881|2005-02-14 18:30:20|kingsknight4life|Boat show thoughts and "Swain Ideas" revised.|Hi everyone. I just got back from the Vancouver boat show and I am sure glad to be building my own boat according to proven, cost effective principles demonstated by Brent and others. Here are some of my observations in no particular order. Engines: Talked to the one of the experts from Klassen diesel,(Brent Klassen) and he said the way to go is skeg cooling with dry exhaust, as per Brent. He said that is the simplest and most bullet proof way to go. The bad news is the cheapest a new engine could be had for, was $6700 before taxes. OUCH!! So I'm still looking for an engine to buy cheap or convert. Someone mentioned that they could be had cheap if one knew where to look. I don't so please tell me. lol : ) Heads: If you're going to buy a head, a Lavac is extremely simple and well built but why buy one for $650 when you could make one, complete with a SS pump for way less. Metal Whale gushers (pumps) go for over $300 and "plastic" ones are still close to $200. Build your own for cheap. BTW some heads were upwards of $2500. RU kidding me??? LED Lights: I could buy a nice tri-colour masthead light for the low, low price of $750. BTW that's NOT a typo. When I asked why would I pay 750 for a light the sales guy said, "I'd never have to change the bulbs and the unit would outlive me.". LOL I said, "For 750 bucks I'll pay someone to change them or maybe I could buy the unit used from somones widow." lol Seriously though, they could be made for cheap from Radio Shack or somplace similar. I can't believe people buy this stuff. Hatches and portlights: Extremely expensive. Didn't even bother looking at many as the cost is prhibitive to me. Bought the materials for my main hatch and forehatch from ABC Metals. Total cost was $160 and this was for more material than needed (just in case), plate for anchor winch drum and sched. 40 pipe for 2 stanchions. All of which is LESS than the cost of ONE portlight. Who knows how much an aluminum door would cost me, as much as the steel for my hull?? Anchors: A couple new models out basically a "Spade" knock off. I think I have plans for a similar type that was published in DIY boatowner?? Should be easy to build or have built. They look like "plow" anchors with the flukes turned upside down so they dig in, instead of plowing. They also have a roll bar so they always set properly. Google "rocna anchors" for pics. Also using a kellet should help considerably. I'll be building mine. Watermakers: Visited the really nice people at Wolfwatermakers. Their product is WAY better and cheaper than anything else out there, as far as I can tell. They have built, used and tested them while sailing all around the world. They also have good advice on what actually works on cruising sailboats in the real world, with regards to refridgeration, alternators etc and more. We talked for over 45 mins. and could've talked for longer. Anyway,the plans in Brent's book describe how to build one of these type watermakers for a lot less. Around $3000 LESS. It was good to see one up close and hands on, they really are quite simple and robust. If I was rich I'd drop 4K on one but I'll build one for about 1K, eventually. Check out their site (wolfwatermakers.com) for pics. Overall: It's fun to visit "the boat show", but man o man is boating expensive to the people just buying from the local Westmarine store or relying on salemans advice. Also seems like most of stuff isn't built all that well. I'm glad I found this group and bought Brent's book. Rowland| 6882|273|2005-02-14 21:43:36|novascotia100|Brents Book|Just wondering how I may get a copy of Brents book. I have been poking around a bit and find the idea of the steel origaniboat very interesting.I have looked at several other designs that I really like but the thought of getting away from all the framework seems to be a good idea. Brian Chabassol Comox| 6883|273|2005-02-14 21:46:46|dwightgry|Re: Brents Book|Look up message 6762 for the correct info. --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "novascotia100" wrote: > > Just wondering how I may get a copy of Brents book. I have been > poking around a bit and find the idea of the steel origaniboat very > interesting.I have looked at several other designs that I really like > but the thought of getting away from all the framework seems to be a > good idea. > Brian Chabassol > Comox | 6884|6881|2005-02-14 22:36:46|Michael Casling|Re: Boat show thoughts and "Swain Ideas" revised.|It would be nice to have more engine and drive train shops to talk to. Klassen is the only one with knowledge it seems. A new gearbox for my engine is $2500- so I will be looking for a used one or will look for a second hand outboard motor. Would prefer to run the inboard diesel. A cheaply constructed solar powered vent for $200- was too much for me, but there was still plenty of stuff to spent $$ on. I enjoyed the show, should have asked if anyone else was going. Michael ----- Original Message ----- From: kingsknight4life To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, February 14, 2005 3:30 PM Subject: [origamiboats] Boat show thoughts and "Swain Ideas" revised. Hi everyone. I just got back from the Vancouver boat show and I am sure glad to be building my own boat according to proven, cost effective principles demonstated by Brent and others. Here are some of my observations in no particular order. Engines: Talked to the one of the experts from Klassen diesel,(Brent Klassen) and he said the way to go is skeg cooling with dry exhaust, as per Brent. He said that is the simplest and most bullet proof way to go. The bad news is the cheapest a new engine could be had for, was $6700 before taxes. OUCH!! So I'm still looking for an engine to buy cheap or convert. Someone mentioned that they could be had cheap if one knew where to look. I don't so please tell me. lol : ) Heads: If you're going to buy a head, a Lavac is extremely simple and well built but why buy one for $650 when you could make one, complete with a SS pump for way less. Metal Whale gushers (pumps) go for over $300 and "plastic" ones are still close to $200. Build your own for cheap. BTW some heads were upwards of $2500. RU kidding me??? LED Lights: I could buy a nice tri-colour masthead light for the low, low price of $750. BTW that's NOT a typo. When I asked why would I pay 750 for a light the sales guy said, "I'd never have to change the bulbs and the unit would outlive me.". LOL I said, "For 750 bucks I'll pay someone to change them or maybe I could buy the unit used from somones widow." lol Seriously though, they could be made for cheap from Radio Shack or somplace similar. I can't believe people buy this stuff. Hatches and portlights: Extremely expensive. Didn't even bother looking at many as the cost is prhibitive to me. Bought the materials for my main hatch and forehatch from ABC Metals. Total cost was $160 and this was for more material than needed (just in case), plate for anchor winch drum and sched. 40 pipe for 2 stanchions. All of which is LESS than the cost of ONE portlight. Who knows how much an aluminum door would cost me, as much as the steel for my hull?? Anchors: A couple new models out basically a "Spade" knock off. I think I have plans for a similar type that was published in DIY boatowner?? Should be easy to build or have built. They look like "plow" anchors with the flukes turned upside down so they dig in, instead of plowing. They also have a roll bar so they always set properly. Google "rocna anchors" for pics. Also using a kellet should help considerably. I'll be building mine. Watermakers: Visited the really nice people at Wolfwatermakers. Their product is WAY better and cheaper than anything else out there, as far as I can tell. They have built, used and tested them while sailing all around the world. They also have good advice on what actually works on cruising sailboats in the real world, with regards to refridgeration, alternators etc and more. We talked for over 45 mins. and could've talked for longer. Anyway,the plans in Brent's book describe how to build one of these type watermakers for a lot less. Around $3000 LESS. It was good to see one up close and hands on, they really are quite simple and robust. If I was rich I'd drop 4K on one but I'll build one for about 1K, eventually. Check out their site (wolfwatermakers.com) for pics. Overall: It's fun to visit "the boat show", but man o man is boating expensive to the people just buying from the local Westmarine store or relying on salemans advice. Also seems like most of stuff isn't built all that well. I'm glad I found this group and bought Brent's book. Rowland To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links a.. To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/ b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 6885|6885|2005-02-14 23:25:06|carlmbentley|hydraulic drive|i need to get my engine in now that it's running. i had planned to run it straight to shaft, no bell housing, no transmission, and more importantly no reverse. just the flex plate right to the shaft, not the best, but it'll get me going. today i got word that i can get hold of some hydrualic stuff fairly cheap and set up a system so that i'd at least have reverse. is the loss of energy noticiable? is it worth reverse? bearing in mind that i'm on the low side as far as horses go already. (~20hp) -carl oh yeah total cost to get it running, 125$ to rebuild the starter and a couple bucks worth the hoses, not bad considering it sat for 12 years. i won't mention what i paid for the old generator to begin with, don't want to upset rowland.| 6886|6864|2005-02-14 23:30:51|carlmbentley|Re: home-built anchor|would be very interested in seeing this > > > > I'll see if we can post some instructions on building one according > to > > the pattern he used. > > > > Alex | 6887|6887|2005-02-15 01:31:39|A & K Christie|Re: low cost engines|I have heard of the idea before of using diesel engines from reefer (refrigeration) units on trucks. These engines run long hours but at constant rpm and load. Any idea of where these can be found? Alex| 6888|6887|2005-02-15 05:07:35|Puck III|Re: low cost engines|Hi Alex the Indian made old Lister engines , see : http://www.indiamart.com/ashwamegh/ can be an alternative . On the other hand importing 1 engine is a lot of work , in Europe many selfbuilders have made a purchasing coop or central , cause bying in bulk usualy gives the best price . A BC purchasing coop in your area may already exists ? or you set one up as an extension : nameproposal : origamiboats5-partsinfo-Repository :-) for parts info Many companies sell of their finished models manufacturing tooling to low labor costs countries where purchasing power is low . You can have anything made newly casted for you at a fraction of the US cost , new and well made or what you'r looking for is already in stock there . You can purchase an old model British motorbike , brand new for less than 1000$ , the bike will live longer than you will :-) Those companies are usualy very happy with the hard currency income an agent or a byer from a potential exportmarket brings. I needed a new part to replace a broken part on a 15 year old boat , and I got it out of the UK within the week for a bargain. An idea to look into ?? You tell me. Old Ben --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, A & K Christie wrote: > I have heard of the idea before of using diesel engines from reefer > (refrigeration) units on trucks. These engines run long hours but at > constant rpm and load. Any idea of where these can be found? > > Alex | 6889|6644|2005-02-15 06:10:25|Puck III|Aluminum , Steel or any Boatdesign :-)|Hi Ted , yes I am trying out there free download testversion , but my old partner JP Brouns uses the full program on occasion, but we all use many other programs too . I am testing the free download version of Touch3D to , cause I like to work with Apple , less viruses and easy for architecture. All designers design for a market : see 1 site of one of my oldest customers : http://www.occyachting.com you may have rented one of his boats :-) I still kept his order for 10 boats in 1978 , a nice and smart Dutch professional who knew what he wanted : easy maintenance and strong boats for hard service . When I design a boat , or design a boat with a team cause thats how its done today , I can't make 1 $ if the boat does not comply with the rules . Sure Gerd is free to like what I do or not , and he will be able to see and judge for himself :-) , I value the opinion of anyone . The only real test is the market . How many boatplans or boats of that design are sold over a certain period of time . I am a starter in Origami design , but every pro was an amateur the day he started learning , and I am learning every day as fast as I can . Most interesting persons do the same all life long , some are even prepared to pay to learn :-) learning is listening and steeling with the eyes , asking around for info & advise and that's what I do for now concerning Origami design , cause its an interesting subject, may be nothing more , all I would like is to master the art cause I think its an art related to....boatdesign in here. I realy welcome all positive directions you or others may have for me or us wanting to improve their knowledge. Regards Old Ben --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "edward_stoneuk" wrote: > > Ben, > I agree with you the AVS Category A requirement seems a bit small > for a blue water boat. Nothing wrong with unsinkability and self > righting at all. I had assumed that you thought it was a > requirement for an EU registered boat. Do you use Naval Designer > software when you design your boats? > Regards, > Ted | 6890|6864|2005-02-15 08:16:30|Gary|Re: home-built anchor|Is it necessary to galvanize a home built anchor? If so, that cost should also be factored in. Gary --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Alex Christie wrote: > Brent made his own Spade (I think) anchor, and it cost very little > compared to buying one cheap and of unknown quality. I believe he used > high tensile steel for the shank--- if you've got the equipment set up > for building a steel boat, then building a steel anchor is easy! Cheap > in cost doesn't have to mean low quality, and building it yourself > means you know exactly what you are getting. I'd much prefer my > home-built anchor to a cheap knock-off, for the same money (don't > forget the high cost of shipping a 50 -75 lb anchor you may win on > eBay). The point is to get something that will hold well and not > self-destruct under extreme circumstances, and the only way to know for > sure if you've got the right metallurgy is to source the steel bits > yourself and build it (or have someone put it together under your > direction). > > I'll see if we can post some instructions on building one according to > the pattern he used. > > Alex | 6891|6891|2005-02-15 08:36:41|Gary|Steel boats & arctic|Just read a book by Alva Simon "North - a Spiritual Journey". He wintered over in the arctic frozen fast. Lots of bangs and bumps but came out intact. The boat of course was steel. A good read, but the bit where he confronted a polar bear in a staring down contests seemed a bit far-fetched. Gary| 6892|6891|2005-02-15 09:10:12|carlmbentley|Re: Steel boats & arctic|that one was an interesting read, but i wouldn't want to do it. i did learn one thing though "bring plenty of matches" if you do. he states that he bought a single keel because twin keels would be crushed together by the water freezing. does anyone know if this is true?? > > Just read a book by Alva Simon "North - a Spiritual Journey". He > wintered over in the arctic frozen fast. Lots of bangs and bumps > but came out intact. The boat of course was steel. A good read, > but the bit where he confronted a polar bear in a staring down > contests seemed a bit far-fetched. > > Gary | 6893|6885|2005-02-15 09:16:16|denis buggy|Re: hydraulic drive|dear Carl you must match your pump to the engine and motors all figures must agree in order to get a result . too small a pump will have too small a fluid flow/pressure and you will make plenty of noise and that's all your suplier will be able to tell you what the energy losses will be from engine to prop using fluid . in order to make best use of your engine your hydraulic local supplier has graphs to match engine speed/ power to load and desired speed of propeller you will need to proceed carefully and a opinion from more than one supplier will be worth it make sure your pipes have enough flow you will also need a filter and you may need an oil cooler pending advice . regards Denis ----- Original Message ----- From: carlmbentley To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2005 4:24 AM Subject: [origamiboats] hydraulic drive i need to get my engine in now that it's running. i had planned to run it straight to shaft, no bell housing, no transmission, and more importantly no reverse. just the flex plate right to the shaft, not the best, but it'll get me going. today i got word that i can get hold of some hydrualic stuff fairly cheap and set up a system so that i'd at least have reverse. is the loss of energy noticiable? is it worth reverse? bearing in mind that i'm on the low side as far as horses go already. (~20hp) -carl oh yeah total cost to get it running, 125$ to rebuild the starter and a couple bucks worth the hoses, not bad considering it sat for 12 years. i won't mention what i paid for the old generator to begin with, don't want to upset rowland. To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links a.. To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/ b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 6894|6894|2005-02-15 09:39:01|audeojude|prop for someone?|Here is a link to goverment surplus site and a prop i saw.... maybe big for one of sailboats but maybe not if you want slow turning :) http://cgi.govliquidation.com/auction/view?id=532131 scott ps lots of other cools stuff on site under the marine catagories| 6895|6887|2005-02-15 09:40:29|denis buggy|Re: low cost engines|dear old ben take care the indian bikes are known as enfield or royal enfield and they bought the tooling and assembly lines of many vehicles when production stopped the giant tata corperation buy all the old mercedes truck and bus lines and the ambassador taxi ( approx 5 millon) is the old morris oxford . the bike will have no heat treated steel where it is needed and mild steel will not do and will fall apart quickly however not as quick as your rear end which will need a full time phisio to keep it working while you wear out the bike , i did 3000 miles in india and it was the most impressive stimulating rewarding and soul destroying place you can visit at the same time . denis ----- Original Message ----- From: Puck III To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2005 10:07 AM Subject: [origamiboats] Re: low cost engines Hi Alex the Indian made old Lister engines , see : http://www.indiamart.com/ashwamegh/ can be an alternative . On the other hand importing 1 engine is a lot of work , in Europe many selfbuilders have made a purchasing coop or central , cause bying in bulk usualy gives the best price . A BC purchasing coop in your area may already exists ? or you set one up as an extension : nameproposal : origamiboats5-partsinfo-Repository :-) for parts info Many companies sell of their finished models manufacturing tooling to low labor costs countries where purchasing power is low . You can have anything made newly casted for you at a fraction of the US cost , new and well made or what you'r looking for is already in stock there . You can purchase an old model British motorbike , brand new for less than 1000$ , the bike will live longer than you will :-) Those companies are usualy very happy with the hard currency income an agent or a byer from a potential exportmarket brings. I needed a new part to replace a broken part on a 15 year old boat , and I got it out of the UK within the week for a bargain. An idea to look into ?? You tell me. Old Ben --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, A & K Christie wrote: > I have heard of the idea before of using diesel engines from reefer > (refrigeration) units on trucks. These engines run long hours but at > constant rpm and load. Any idea of where these can be found? > > Alex To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links a.. To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/ b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 6896|6896|2005-02-15 09:46:27|audeojude|another one in washington state it looks like.|seems of a size a swain boat would use VOLVO PENTA, 12-94, PROPELLER, 16" X 15" RH. http://cgi.govliquidation.com/auction/view?id=530251| 6897|6864|2005-02-15 10:05:28|seeratlas|Re: cheap anchor|Ditto to what Brent wrote. I had one and tried every different kind of bottom i could find to justify keeping it. Couldn't find anything that it was better at than the other anchors i had, so i sold it. seer --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "brentswain38" wrote: > > Both the British and the Germans did tests on Bruce anchors, plows > and danforths. They both found that pound for pound, a Bruce has > roughly half the holding power of a plow or danforth. There is also > the "Bruce Rock" which fits the bruce perfectly and won't shake out. > If the rode takes a turn around the shank of a bruce it won't shake > off and the fouled bruce will drag forever. If the Bruce can't find > solid bottom in the first foot of depth it wil drag forever without > biting in. > Friends with a new boat put their new 35 lb bruce down, threw their > 18HP sabb in reverse and dragged the bruce the length of Nanaimo > harbour. They tried again with the same result. They then put their > 35 lb plow down gave her full reverse without moving, then put the > bruce on the bow with a "For sale " sign on it . > A friend saw the little bruce in the sandbox at the boat show.He > took a turn around the shank and dragged it backwards the length of > the box, then left. He returned and did it a second time. The third > time the salesman said" You're not welcome here." and straightened > out the bruce in the sandbox. > The bruce anchors that they use on the oil rigs are set with a huge > tug to pull in one direction only. > Brent > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "carlmbentley" > wrote: > > > > found a cheap "bruce" knock off on ebay. for less than 100$ check > it > > out. no clue as to the quality, guess i'll find out the hard way. > > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? > > ViewItem&item=4526041436&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWN%3AIT > > > > sorry if that link is all fouled up. can also just search for bruce > > on ebay. they come out of a foundry British Columbia, judging by > the > > mailing address. | 6898|6864|2005-02-15 11:07:56|Alex Christie|Re: home-built anchor|You'd probably want to galvanize your main anchor, but one could economize by grinding it to bare steel and coating with a cold-galvanizing product like Zinga paint, which would provide high zinc-based protection. Paint over the Zinga with a topcoat and you'd be in even better shape, or keep it in Zinga and touch it up any time if it shows wear from use. Either that or just galvanize the main and Zinga the reserve. It may be less expensive to get a whole batch of anchors made up with friends and get them galvanized for a better rate per unit. Alex On 15-Feb-05, at 5:16 AM, Gary wrote: > > > Is it necessary to galvanize a home built anchor? If so, that cost > should also be factored in. > > Gary > > | 6899|6644|2005-02-15 11:17:42|Gerd|Re: Aluminum , Steel or any Boatdesign :-)|Old Ben, I also had a look at Naval designer and it looks quite nice and reasonably priced compared to quite a lot of other hull design programs out there. On the other hand, it's not much cheaper than Rhino. Also, the educational version would not allow you to produce commercial plans... plus, I believe, it's locked with a hardware dongle, and in the past I have made very bad experience with that sort of thing from smaller companies that disappeared and we sat there with unsupported tools. Why do you think I would not like your designs?? ;-)) Where can we see them? I know the Puck, just love it, lovely boat, and would like to see more really. Are you still actively designing with Brouns? >I can't make 1 $ if the boat does not comply with the rules . I guess that depends what you are designing for. If you design for the amateur market, they do not need to comply. Reinke for example, very popular in Germany, is even advising amateur builders Cascos that are build by friendly "professional helpers..." ;-) In any case, the amateur builder would have to present the finished BOAT and get it certified if he wants to. Basically every serious design would probably pass if it is build according to EU specs - but if he does not plan to sell within 5 years he can skip the whole thing completely. Of course, if you design for professional production it's a different story. As for making dollars.... ;-) Gerd| 6900|6864|2005-02-15 12:02:48|Bill Jaine|Re: cheap anchor|You gotta face up to the fact that most Bruce owners (like us) love their Bruce. You put a lot of chain on it, a lot of rode and it will hold in a hurricane, it�s not great in mud BUT I�ve never had one not set first time which has given us time to put other anchors out. In a tight situation the Bruce and chain goes overboard first to catch and stop us, then the other types. Bill Port Hope. Canada -----Original Message----- From: seeratlas [mailto:seeratlas@...] Sent: 15-Feb-05 10:05 AM To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Subject: [origamiboats] Re: cheap anchor Ditto to what Brent wrote. I had one and tried every different kind of bottom i could find to justify keeping it. Couldn't find anything that it was better at than the other anchors i had, so i sold it. seer --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "brentswain38" wrote: > > Both the British and the Germans did tests on Bruce anchors, plows > and danforths. They both found that pound for pound, a Bruce has > roughly half the holding power of a plow or danforth. There is also > the "Bruce Rock" which fits the bruce perfectly and won't shake out. > If the rode takes a turn around the shank of a bruce it won't shake > off and the fouled bruce will drag forever. If the Bruce can't find > solid bottom in the first foot of depth it wil drag forever without > biting in. > Friends with a new boat put their new 35 lb bruce down, threw their > 18HP sabb in reverse and dragged the bruce the length of Nanaimo > harbour. They tried again with the same result. They then put their > 35 lb plow down gave her full reverse without moving, then put the > bruce on the bow with a "For sale " sign on it . > A friend saw the little bruce in the sandbox at the boat show.He > took a turn around the shank and dragged it backwards the length of > the box, then left. He returned and did it a second time. The third > time the salesman said" You're not welcome here." and straightened > out the bruce in the sandbox. > The bruce anchors that they use on the oil rigs are set with a huge > tug to pull in one direction only. > Brent > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "carlmbentley" > wrote: > > > > found a cheap "bruce" knock off on ebay. for less than 100$ check > it > > out. no clue as to the quality, guess i'll find out the hard way. > > > > HYPERLINK "http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?"http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymo tors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? > > ViewItem&item=4526041436&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWN%3AIT > > > > sorry if that link is all fouled up. can also just search for bruce > > on ebay. they come out of a foundry British Columbia, judging by > the > > mailing address. To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT HYPERLINK "http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=129cg2nii/M=298184.6018725.7038619.3001176/D=gr oups/S=1705150872:HM/EXP=1108566329/A=2532114/R=2/SIG=12kdrkbng/*http:/clk.a tdmt.com/NFX/go/yhxxxnfx0020000014nfx/direct/01/&time=1108479929190823" \n HYPERLINK "http://view.atdmt.com/NFX/view/yhxxxnfx0020000014nfx/direct/01/&time=110847 9929190823" HYPERLINK "http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?M=298184.6018725.7038619.3001176/D=groups/S= :HM/A=2532114/rand=554709612" _____ Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: HYPERLINK "http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/"http://groups.yahoo.com/group/o rigamiboats/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HYPERLINK "mailto:origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe"origami boats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the HYPERLINK "http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/"Yahoo! Terms of Service. -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.8.8 - Release Date: 14/02/2005 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.8.8 - Release Date: 14/02/2005 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]| 6901|6864|2005-02-15 12:03:22|Bill Jaine|Re: home-built anchor|Please guys, before you go ahead with your own anchors read Bob Griffith's book "Blue Water", a little dated but the sea hasn't changed much. He carried 10 anchors, nearly 600 feet of chain and 1500 feet of line in his 53 foot boat. In our 32 foot boat we carry 5 anchors (main one is a Bruce 33 attached to 100' 3/8 BBB chain and 300 feet of 1" rode), 250 feet of chain and 600 feet of rode. AND I've used all of it on 3 occasions, our new project boat (a Tayana 37), will also have 5 anchors, a big Bruce, 2 CQR's and 2 Danforths/Fortress, plus a whole lot of chain and rode. When you're there, "scared sh**less", at anchor, in a gale, on a lee shore, in 12 foot waves and the boat rolling through 120 degrees, it's not the time to think "maybe that angle should have been 30 degrees not 35, or I hope that weld holds". There's nothing quite as comforting as a BFA (big flipping anchor :-) ) Bill Port Hope. Canada -----Original Message----- From: Gary [mailto:greenguy2ca@...] Sent: 15-Feb-05 8:16 AM To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Subject: [origamiboats] Re: home-built anchor Is it necessary to galvanize a home built anchor? If so, that cost should also be factored in. Gary --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Alex Christie wrote: > Brent made his own Spade (I think) anchor, and it cost very little > compared to buying one cheap and of unknown quality. I believe he used > high tensile steel for the shank--- if you've got the equipment set up > for building a steel boat, then building a steel anchor is easy! Cheap > in cost doesn't have to mean low quality, and building it yourself > means you know exactly what you are getting. I'd much prefer my > home-built anchor to a cheap knock-off, for the same money (don't > forget the high cost of shipping a 50 -75 lb anchor you may win on > eBay). The point is to get something that will hold well and not > self-destruct under extreme circumstances, and the only way to know for > sure if you've got the right metallurgy is to source the steel bits > yourself and build it (or have someone put it together under your > direction). > > I'll see if we can post some instructions on building one according to > the pattern he used. > > Alex To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT _____ Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service . -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.8.8 - Release Date: 14/02/2005 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.8.8 - Release Date: 14/02/2005 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]| 6902|6881|2005-02-15 13:21:03|kingsknight4life|Re: Boat show thoughts and "Swain Ideas" revised.|Michael The one thing that Brent Klassen advised me to stay away from was used or rebuilt trannys. Don't know if this is because he's in the business of selling trannys but I suspect it's not. He wasn't against finding used motors just trannys. Food for thought. Rowland --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Michael Casling wrote: > It would be nice to have more engine and drive train shops to talk to. Klassen is the only one with knowledge it seems. A new gearbox for my engine is $2500- so I will be looking for a used one .... > Michael > > > > > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats- unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ADVERTISEMENT > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------- > Yahoo! Groups Links > > a.. To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/ > > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 6903|6887|2005-02-15 13:25:56|kingsknight4life|Re: low cost engines|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, A & K Christie wrote: > I have heard of the idea before of using diesel engines from reefer > (refrigeration) units on trucks. These engines run long hours but at > constant rpm and load. Any idea of where these can be found? > > Alex Alex I know of one for sale in Ladysmith. LOL Just kidding. That one is either sold or no longer listed in the buy and sell. Rowland| 6904|6644|2005-02-15 14:35:54|Gerd|design software|I forgot, Old Ben, there is another one that looks promising: HullCAO made by a frenchie, looks quite fresh and different, I think it started out for model-design but is very complete now and relatively cheap. I sent the guy some mail the other week, but no answer yet, but that could really be quite interesting... http://www.hullcoa.com gerd The Yago project at http://www.justmueller.com/boats/| 6905|6864|2005-02-15 14:53:24|brentswain38|Re: home-built anchor|The other advantage of building your own anchors is that you can carry more and make them collapsible so that you can fit more in your boat. In the late 70s I sailed to Tahiti and back. I left with 7 anchors and came back with 5. They are easy to lose and you can't get another easily in mid Pacific. I gave a welder kid patterns for anchors in Niue , and told him that it's impossible to get anchors between Mexico and Fiji. I hope he started building them.It would make him far more money than anything else he could do there, and do yachties a great service. Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Bill Jaine" wrote: > Please guys, before you go ahead with your own anchors read Bob Griffith's > book "Blue Water", a little dated but the sea hasn't changed much. > > He carried 10 anchors, nearly 600 feet of chain and 1500 feet of line in his > 53 foot boat. > > In our 32 foot boat we carry 5 anchors (main one is a Bruce 33 attached to > 100' 3/8 BBB chain and 300 feet of 1" rode), 250 feet of chain and 600 feet > of rode. > > AND I've used all of it on 3 occasions, our new project boat (a Tayana 37), > will also have 5 anchors, a big Bruce, 2 CQR's and 2 Danforths/Fortress, > plus a whole lot of chain and rode. > > When you're there, "scared sh**less", at anchor, in a gale, on a lee shore, > in 12 foot waves and the boat rolling through 120 degrees, it's not the time > to think "maybe that angle should have been 30 degrees not 35, or I hope > that weld holds". > > There's nothing quite as comforting as a BFA (big flipping anchor :-) ) > > > > Bill > > Port Hope. Canada > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Gary [mailto:greenguy2ca@y...] > Sent: 15-Feb-05 8:16 AM > To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [origamiboats] Re: home-built anchor > > > > > Is it necessary to galvanize a home built anchor? If so, that cost > should also be factored in. > > Gary > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Alex Christie > wrote: > > Brent made his own Spade (I think) anchor, and it cost very little > > compared to buying one cheap and of unknown quality. I believe he > used > > high tensile steel for the shank--- if you've got the equipment > set up > > for building a steel boat, then building a steel anchor is easy! > Cheap > > in cost doesn't have to mean low quality, and building it yourself > > means you know exactly what you are getting. I'd much prefer my > > home-built anchor to a cheap knock-off, for the same money (don't > > forget the high cost of shipping a 50 -75 lb anchor you may win on > > eBay). The point is to get something that will hold well and not > > self-destruct under extreme circumstances, and the only way to > know for > > sure if you've got the right metallurgy is to source the steel > bits > > yourself and build it (or have someone put it together under your > > direction). > > > > I'll see if we can post some instructions on building one > according to > > the pattern he used. > > > > Alex > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > > ADVERTISEMENT > > oups/S=1705150872:HM/EXP=1108559791/A=2532114/R=2/SIG=12khetmg5/*http: /clk.a > tdmt.com/NFX/go/yhxxxnfx0020000014nfx/direct/01/&time=1108473391113830 > > > > 3391113830> > > > > :HM/A=2532114/rand=383952545> > > > > _____ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > * To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/ > > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service > . > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.8.8 - Release Date: 14/02/2005 > > > > -- > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.8.8 - Release Date: 14/02/2005 > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 6906|6881|2005-02-15 14:56:49|brentswain38|Re: Boat show thoughts and "Swain Ideas" revised.|If you have a small solar panel and a computer fan you have the same benefits as a solar vent , much cheaper. Look in the auto section of the Buy and sell for a beater car with a diesel in. They sell real cheap if the body is rusted out and the engine is still good. Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Michael Casling wrote: > It would be nice to have more engine and drive train shops to talk to. Klassen is the only one with knowledge it seems. A new gearbox for my engine is $2500- so I will be looking for a used one or will look for a second hand outboard motor. Would prefer to run the inboard diesel. A cheaply constructed solar powered vent for $200- was too much for me, but there was still plenty of stuff to spent $$ on. I enjoyed the show, should have asked if anyone else was going. > Michael > ----- Original Message ----- > From: kingsknight4life > To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Monday, February 14, 2005 3:30 PM > Subject: [origamiboats] Boat show thoughts and "Swain Ideas" revised. > > > > Hi everyone. > I just got back from the Vancouver boat show and I am sure glad to be > building my own boat according to proven, cost effective principles > demonstated by Brent and others. Here are some of my observations in > no particular order. > > Engines: > Talked to the one of the experts from Klassen diesel,(Brent Klassen) > and he said the way to go is skeg cooling with dry exhaust, as per > Brent. He said that is the simplest and most bullet proof way to go. > The bad news is the cheapest a new engine could be had for, was $6700 > before taxes. OUCH!! So I'm still looking for an engine to buy > cheap or convert. Someone mentioned that they could be had cheap if > one knew where to look. I don't so please tell me. lol : ) > > Heads: > If you're going to buy a head, a Lavac is extremely simple and well > built but why buy one for $650 when you could make one, complete > with a SS pump for way less. Metal Whale gushers (pumps) go for over > $300 and "plastic" ones are still close to $200. Build your own for > cheap. BTW some heads were upwards of $2500. RU kidding me??? > > LED Lights: > I could buy a nice tri-colour masthead light for the low, low price > of $750. BTW that's NOT a typo. When I asked why would I pay 750 for > a light the sales guy said, "I'd never have to change the bulbs and > the unit would outlive me.". LOL I said, "For 750 bucks I'll pay > someone to change them or maybe I could buy the unit used from > somones widow." lol Seriously though, they could be made for cheap > from Radio Shack or somplace similar. I can't believe people buy > this stuff. > > Hatches and portlights: > Extremely expensive. Didn't even bother looking at many as the cost > is prhibitive to me. Bought the materials for my main hatch and > forehatch from ABC Metals. Total cost was $160 and this was for more > material than needed (just in case), plate for anchor winch drum and > sched. 40 pipe for 2 stanchions. All of which is LESS than the cost > of ONE portlight. Who knows how much an aluminum door would cost me, > as much as the steel for my hull?? > > Anchors: > A couple new models out basically a "Spade" knock off. I think I have > plans for a similar type that was published in DIY boatowner?? > Should be easy to build or have built. They look like "plow" anchors > with the flukes turned upside down so they dig in, instead of > plowing. They also have a roll bar so they always set properly. > Google "rocna anchors" for pics. Also using a kellet should help > considerably. I'll be building mine. > > Watermakers: > Visited the really nice people at Wolfwatermakers. Their product is > WAY better and cheaper than anything else out there, as far as I can > tell. They have built, used and tested them while sailing all around > the world. They also have good advice on what actually works on > cruising sailboats in the real world, with regards to > refridgeration, alternators etc and more. We talked for over 45 > mins. and could've talked for longer. Anyway,the plans in Brent's > book describe how to build one of these type watermakers for a lot > less. Around $3000 LESS. It was good to see one up close and hands > on, they really are quite simple and robust. If I was rich I'd drop > 4K on one but I'll build one for about 1K, eventually. Check out > their site (wolfwatermakers.com) for pics. > > Overall: > It's fun to visit "the boat show", but man o man is boating > expensive to the people just buying from the local Westmarine store > or relying on salemans advice. Also seems like most of stuff isn't > built all that well. I'm glad I found this group and bought Brent's > book. > > Rowland > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats- unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ADVERTISEMENT > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------- > Yahoo! Groups Links > > a.. To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/ > > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 6907|6864|2005-02-15 15:02:26|brentswain38|Re: home-built anchor|You can use a painted anchor for a long time , until the opportunity to galvanise it comes along. I did two years in the early 70s cruising the South Pacific with a painted danforth. At the beginning I weighed it. It was 40 lbs. After two years in the tropics I chipped all the rust off it and weighed it again. The scale still said 40 lbs. I've ben told that there is still a galvaniser in business in Chemainus.A place where Jesse worked. Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Gary" wrote: > > Is it necessary to galvanize a home built anchor? If so, that cost > should also be factored in. > > Gary > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Alex Christie > wrote: > > Brent made his own Spade (I think) anchor, and it cost very little > > compared to buying one cheap and of unknown quality. I believe he > used > > high tensile steel for the shank--- if you've got the equipment > set up > > for building a steel boat, then building a steel anchor is easy! > Cheap > > in cost doesn't have to mean low quality, and building it yourself > > means you know exactly what you are getting. I'd much prefer my > > home-built anchor to a cheap knock-off, for the same money (don't > > forget the high cost of shipping a 50 -75 lb anchor you may win on > > eBay). The point is to get something that will hold well and not > > self-destruct under extreme circumstances, and the only way to > know for > > sure if you've got the right metallurgy is to source the steel > bits > > yourself and build it (or have someone put it together under your > > direction). > > > > I'll see if we can post some instructions on building one > according to > > the pattern he used. > > > > Alex | 6908|6891|2005-02-15 15:06:25|brentswain38|Re: Steel boats & arctic|I recommended a single keel fully filled with ballast or concrete for Winston's trip thru the arctic. There is no way any twin keels could possibly resist the pressure of ice in the arctic and not be squeezed together.Being from the prairies , I've seen the power of wind on ice with a much smaller fetch than the Arctic ocean can give.There's no stopping it. Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "carlmbentley" wrote: > > that one was an interesting read, but i wouldn't want to do it. > i did learn one thing though "bring plenty of matches" if you do. > > he states that he bought a single keel because twin keels would be > crushed together by the water freezing. does anyone know if this is > true?? > > > > > > Just read a book by Alva Simon "North - a Spiritual Journey". He > > wintered over in the arctic frozen fast. Lots of bangs and bumps > > but came out intact. The boat of course was steel. A good read, > > but the bit where he confronted a polar bear in a staring down > > contests seemed a bit far-fetched. > > > > Gary | 6909|6864|2005-02-15 17:45:52|jfpacuas|Re: home-built anchor|Hi Alex, How much are you paying for Zinga in BC (I couldn't find a price on the web)? I've found a lot of great steel stuff (products/services/treatments)is much more accessible/affordable in Canada than in the states, especially here in Alaska. As far as I can tell, the only place to get Zinga in the states is in Maryland. Perhaps I can pick some up in BC next time I'm in the neighborhood. Interestingly, I can walk out my door and into the park I live by, and get narcotics from around the globe, but I have to go to Maryland or Canada to galvvanize my $#%$^! anchor. Perhaps the import/export folks should be hiring more drug dealers. Or perhaps I just need to ask the neighborhood dealers if they can get me some Zinga. After all, I need some in a bad way! Cheers --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Alex Christie wrote: > You'd probably want to galvanize your main anchor, but one could > economize by grinding it to bare steel and coating with a > cold-galvanizing product like Zinga paint, which would provide high > zinc-based protection. Paint over the Zinga with a topcoat and you'd > be in even better shape, or keep it in Zinga and touch it up any time > if it shows wear from use. Either that or just galvanize the main and > Zinga the reserve. > > It may be less expensive to get a whole batch of anchors made up with > friends and get them galvanized for a better rate per unit. > > Alex > > On 15-Feb-05, at 5:16 AM, Gary wrote: > > > > > > > Is it necessary to galvanize a home built anchor? If so, that cost > > should also be factored in. > > > > Gary > > > > | 6910|6881|2005-02-15 18:14:46|Michael Casling|Re: Boat show thoughts and "Swain Ideas" revised.|Told me the same thing. I need a gearbox with an 8 degree angle down. It is for my fishing boat. Would be cheaper and easier to bolt an outboard on the transom but I would prefer an ionboard diesel. I am gonna sit on it for a while, got a buch of other stuff to do. Michael ----- Original Message ----- From: kingsknight4life To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2005 10:20 AM Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Boat show thoughts and "Swain Ideas" revised. Michael The one thing that Brent Klassen advised me to stay away from was used or rebuilt trannys. Don't know if this is because he's in the business of selling trannys but I suspect it's not. He wasn't against finding used motors just trannys. Food for thought. Rowland --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Michael Casling wrote: > It would be nice to have more engine and drive train shops to talk to. Klassen is the only one with knowledge it seems. A new gearbox for my engine is $2500- so I will be looking for a used one .... > Michael > > > > > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats- unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ADVERTISEMENT > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------- > Yahoo! Groups Links > > a.. To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/ > > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links a.. To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/ b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 6911|6881|2005-02-15 18:17:06|Michael Casling|Re: Boat show thoughts and "Swain Ideas" revised.|I have an engine already, it is a 2.5 litre Nissan, have the boat, it is an 18 foot aluminum Crestliner. Will consider the fan. Michael ----- Original Message ----- From: brentswain38 To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2005 11:56 AM Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Boat show thoughts and "Swain Ideas" revised. If you have a small solar panel and a computer fan you have the same benefits as a solar vent , much cheaper. Look in the auto section of the Buy and sell for a beater car with a diesel in. They sell real cheap if the body is rusted out and the engine is still good. Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Michael Casling wrote: > It would be nice to have more engine and drive train shops to talk to. Klassen is the only one with knowledge it seems. A new gearbox for my engine is $2500- so I will be looking for a used one or will look for a second hand outboard motor. Would prefer to run the inboard diesel. A cheaply constructed solar powered vent for $200- was too much for me, but there was still plenty of stuff to spent $$ on. I enjoyed the show, should have asked if anyone else was going. > Michael > ----- Original Message ----- > From: kingsknight4life > To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Monday, February 14, 2005 3:30 PM > Subject: [origamiboats] Boat show thoughts and "Swain Ideas" revised. > > > > Hi everyone. > I just got back from the Vancouver boat show and I am sure glad to be > building my own boat according to proven, cost effective principles > demonstated by Brent and others. Here are some of my observations in > no particular order. > > Engines: > Talked to the one of the experts from Klassen diesel,(Brent Klassen) > and he said the way to go is skeg cooling with dry exhaust, as per > Brent. He said that is the simplest and most bullet proof way to go. > The bad news is the cheapest a new engine could be had for, was $6700 > before taxes. OUCH!! So I'm still looking for an engine to buy > cheap or convert. Someone mentioned that they could be had cheap if > one knew where to look. I don't so please tell me. lol : ) > > Heads: > If you're going to buy a head, a Lavac is extremely simple and well > built but why buy one for $650 when you could make one, complete > with a SS pump for way less. Metal Whale gushers (pumps) go for over > $300 and "plastic" ones are still close to $200. Build your own for > cheap. BTW some heads were upwards of $2500. RU kidding me??? > > LED Lights: > I could buy a nice tri-colour masthead light for the low, low price > of $750. BTW that's NOT a typo. When I asked why would I pay 750 for > a light the sales guy said, "I'd never have to change the bulbs and > the unit would outlive me.". LOL I said, "For 750 bucks I'll pay > someone to change them or maybe I could buy the unit used from > somones widow." lol Seriously though, they could be made for cheap > from Radio Shack or somplace similar. I can't believe people buy > this stuff. > > Hatches and portlights: > Extremely expensive. Didn't even bother looking at many as the cost > is prhibitive to me. Bought the materials for my main hatch and > forehatch from ABC Metals. Total cost was $160 and this was for more > material than needed (just in case), plate for anchor winch drum and > sched. 40 pipe for 2 stanchions. All of which is LESS than the cost > of ONE portlight. Who knows how much an aluminum door would cost me, > as much as the steel for my hull?? > > Anchors: > A couple new models out basically a "Spade" knock off. I think I have > plans for a similar type that was published in DIY boatowner?? > Should be easy to build or have built. They look like "plow" anchors > with the flukes turned upside down so they dig in, instead of > plowing. They also have a roll bar so they always set properly. > Google "rocna anchors" for pics. Also using a kellet should help > considerably. I'll be building mine. > > Watermakers: > Visited the really nice people at Wolfwatermakers. Their product is > WAY better and cheaper than anything else out there, as far as I can > tell. They have built, used and tested them while sailing all around > the world. They also have good advice on what actually works on > cruising sailboats in the real world, with regards to > refridgeration, alternators etc and more. We talked for over 45 > mins. and could've talked for longer. Anyway,the plans in Brent's > book describe how to build one of these type watermakers for a lot > less. Around $3000 LESS. It was good to see one up close and hands > on, they really are quite simple and robust. If I was rich I'd drop > 4K on one but I'll build one for about 1K, eventually. Check out > their site (wolfwatermakers.com) for pics. > > Overall: > It's fun to visit "the boat show", but man o man is boating > expensive to the people just buying from the local Westmarine store > or relying on salemans advice. Also seems like most of stuff isn't > built all that well. I'm glad I found this group and bought Brent's > book. > > Rowland > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats- unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ADVERTISEMENT > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------- > Yahoo! Groups Links > > a.. To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/ > > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links a.. To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/ b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 6912|6912|2005-02-15 20:01:53|sailparpar|cheap inboard engines|anyone looking for a cheap new diesel can buy a new yanmar 21hp on www.surpluscenter.com for 2000$ locky| 6913|6864|2005-02-15 21:03:15|Alex Christie|Re: home-built anchor|The Zinga, by the Gallon, is $179 CDN, coming to $209 if taxes are included. Only comes in 1 gallon pails (no indication whether that is US gal or Imp gal). The consultant I spoke to in Victoria, Bruce Hunter, said that there is another product, Aqua Zinga, which costs about the same and is made for extreme salt water conditions that the anchor would experience. He said it just takes longer to get because they don't normally stock it in NA and would bring it in from Belgium. He confirmed the added benefit of being able to recoat any abraded areas again any time, as long as you flush the area of salts completely before applying. Bruce was quite keen on sandblasting the anchor to bare metal first in order to gain the surface profile which Zinga needs to get a grip. Apparently grinding alone is not as good as you think (although it looks rough, it actually polishes the steel between those rough scratch lines, to a degree). He said wire brush on a wheel works, at least, which is good news for us low-tech types. I'll ask the Zinga people in Vancouver if they'll send to Alaska for you. They may actually have that area too, who knows. Alex On 15-Feb-05, at 2:45 PM, jfpacuas wrote: > > > Hi Alex, > > How much are you paying for Zinga in BC (I couldn't find a price on > the web)? I've found a lot of great steel stuff > (products/services/treatments)is much more accessible/affordable in > Canada than in the states, especially here in Alaska. > > As far as I can tell, the only place to get Zinga in the states is in > Maryland. Perhaps I can pick some up in BC next time I'm in the > neighborhood. > > Interestingly, I can walk out my door and into the park I live by, > and get narcotics from around the globe, but I have to go to Maryland > or Canada to galvvanize my $#%$^! anchor. Perhaps the import/export > folks should be hiring more drug dealers. Or perhaps I just need to > ask the neighborhood dealers if they can get me some Zinga. After > all, I need some in a bad way! > > Cheers | 6914|6887|2005-02-15 21:22:23|Alex Christie|Re: low cost engines|Oh ya, group, Rowland's mention of that bad engine In Ladysmith should lead me to make an anouncement: If there is anyone on the list on Vancouver Island looking for an engine, don't get suckered into buying that Isuzu C221 on Hambruck Rd, Ladysmith from "Dick"; The guy just epoxy puttied over a crack in the block and repainted the engine, not telling anyone it is basically useless except as scrap iron at this point -- really crummy thing to do to someone, especially someone who may end up on a lee shore needing to depend on their engine. The engine runs, but only by a miracle, and there is no way it would see you through any voyage. I'm just lucky my smart tom-boy of a daughter brought her flashlight along so her old dad could peer more closely at the engine in the poor lighting conditions of early evening, or I might have been suckered out of $2600 for junk! Alex On 15-Feb-05, at 10:25 AM, kingsknight4life wrote: > > Alex > > I know of one for sale in Ladysmith. LOL Just kidding. That one is > either sold or no longer listed in the buy and sell. > Rowland > > > > | 6915|6644|2005-02-16 03:09:52|dreemer1962|Re: design software|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Gerd" wrote: > > I forgot, Old Ben, there is another one that looks promising: > HullCAO made by a frenchie, looks quite fresh and different, I think > it started out for model-design but is very complete now and > relatively cheap. I sent the guy some mail the other week, but no > answer yet, but that could really be quite interesting... > http://www.hullcoa.com > > gerd > Hi Gerd, I can't open that link. I use http://www.hullform.com/. Their freeware version is simple to use and you can quickly scetch the basic hull form and get the hydrostatics. Problem is export to the other programs, hullform uses the *.hud extension, if you want *.dxf you heave to buy student editions, which are reasonably priced by the way. Milan| 6916|6644|2005-02-16 03:20:44|dreemer1962|Re: Aluminum , Steel or any Boatdesign :-)|"…Reinke for example, very popular in Germany…" Here is his site http://www.reinke-yacht.de I'm curious about your experience/opinions about this boats and building technics? Milan| 6917|6757|2005-02-16 04:20:52|sae140|Re: Inner tube Vents|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "edward_stoneuk" wrote: > > Colin, > If you look at > Photos > 31' Sloop > Companionway hatch then you > will see inner tube vents in the back of the pilot house either side > of the hatch. > Regards, > Ted Hi Ted When you first posted about inner-tubes I thought you'd discovered some ingenious way of fitting a fail-safe flap-valve to a dorade, and wanted some rubber sheeting to make some ..... So - thanks for the link - all is clear now - but these suckers sure are ugly - hopefully they can be removed when not on passage ? I've just been checking around my site, and another source of inner- tubes are: builder's barrows, and what I call "picnic trailers" - those really small jobs for sale at Halfords. Both of these sources use 8" tyres with tubes - the tubes are around 3.5 to 4" diameter. Regards, Colin| 6918|6887|2005-02-16 04:22:40|Paul Browne|Re: low cost engines|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Alex Christie wrote: "The guy just epoxy puttied over a crack in the block and repainted the engine, not telling anyone it is basically useless except as scrap iron at this point -- really crummy thing to do to someone," You know Shipmates, it's not really very hard to take somebody to the cleaners like that. We all get tempted to do it from time to time. Sure you think you get rid of a problem and you put a few bucks in your pocket. But you feel bloody awful afterwards, if you've got any sort of backbone. Ain't worth it. Straight shootin', that's the right policy! Don't ask me how I know. By the way, you can get low cost diesels and marine gears from firms that advertise in "Boats and Harbors" magazine, specifically Allen Machine Co. www.allenmachineco.com. (423) 756-1414 New Marine Gears for up to 32 hp - $250 New 28 hp Yanmar diesels for $1900 They're selling out their marine gear line. And those engines must be barebones for that price. Still, very inexpensive. Paul Browne Geezer Boatworks| 6919|6864|2005-02-16 04:23:49|sae140|Re: home-built anchor|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "brentswain38" wrote: > > You can use a painted anchor for a long time , until the opportunity > to galvanise it comes along. I've got several lengths of anchor and mooring chain I'd like to treat with something-or-other. I've tried East Anglian Galvanising in Peterborough which all the local trailer manufacturers use, but they ignore my emails. Maybe they're just too big, and don't need the business ? Pity, 'cause I know they've got a spinner. As an experiment I tried painting one length, but the links just stuck together - so I guess Zinga would do the same - any thoughts on how to deal with chain ? Colin| 6920|6644|2005-02-16 04:32:38|dreemer1962|Re: origami ply or Aluminum|Hi Gerd, "…I just do not like the type of hulls/weights/drafts/superstructures etc you get for 360 positive…" I suppose that you heave in mind heavy ballasted, deep draft, v or wine glass section boats, But deep sections with a deep draft is not the only way to get a high stability. What do you think about shallow draft hull with relatively narrow beam and relatively high sides / superstructure, which could also heave ultimate stability? Something like older generation life saving boats, built for displacement speeds. By the way, to aim for full 180 degrees positive is maybe over kill, 150 to 160 degrees should achieve the same effect considering that capsize can only be caused by large waves. Same waves that turned the boat would certainly heel capsized boat for 20 - 30 degrees needed to turn him up. "…Floatability is a completely different topic, can be obtained on any boat if you want it and sacrifice the volume (spread it itelligently)... " The easiest to achieve on the narrow hull divided in watertight compartments. That way, there is almost no lose of the volume, and trim in the partly flooded narrow hull will be better then with a partly flooded beamie hull. Milan --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Gerd" wrote: > > > > Anything wrong with the total selfrighting ? and or floatability ? > > Nothing wrong with selfrighting, Ben, I just do not like the type of > hulls/weights/drafts/superstructures etc you get for 360 positive. > > Show me a boat I like with 360, preferably with inside ballast and > boards, and we'll discuss the issue ;-) > > Floatability is a completely different topic, can be obtained on any > boat if you want it and sacrifice the volume (spread it > itelligently). I do not take that lightly, and I do not believe much > in inflatable liferafts myself. Some 20 years ago my sister and her > friend John crossed back from Brazil in the winter, must have had a > nasty collision and they were found both dead of cold and exhaustion > in their intact raft 50 miles off the Scillies. > > I do not take security lightly, but I do stress the individual's > right and obligation to make informed and personal choices. > > Gerd > The Yago Project at http://www.justmueller.com/boats/ | 6921|6864|2005-02-16 04:34:47|edward_stoneuk|Re: home-built anchor and ZINGA|Alex, From memory ZINGA is sold in the UK in 10 kilogram pails, which look the same volume as 1 gallon. The very important thing to remember is that during transport and storage the zinc will settle into a hard packed muddy cement in the bottom of the tin. Unless it is stirred and stirred and stirred one ends up painting on the solvent and leaving the good bit in the tin. We use a propeller type paint stirrer on an electric drill in a stand so that it can be left for 20 minutes or so. Watch out for the propeller eating its way out of the tin! Then we pour the ZINGA into another container to see how much of the zinc is left unstirred. There is no short cut. Because the zinc in ZINGA bonds with the steel rather than sticks to it like normal paint it must come into contact with the steel and not oil, grease or existing paint. I once used ZINGA on a 2mm thick steel enclosure and because it was going near the sea, put plenty on. After a week or two it fell off in sheets because, I think, the outer layers had nothing to bond to. Regards, Ted| 6922|6644|2005-02-16 04:50:59|Gerd|Re: design software|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "dreemer1962" > > http://www.hullcoa.com > I can't open that link. sorry, that's a typo, should have been http://www.hullcao.com anybody interested in design software should have a look at 2 threads in the boat design forums: Best marine design and best free/low cost design software, with polls and link to the different sites, at http://boatdesign.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=4 hope these links work ;-) Gerd| 6923|6644|2005-02-16 04:57:43|Gerd|Re: Aluminum , Steel or any Boatdesign :-)|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "dreemer1962" wrote: > "…Reinke for example, very popular in Germany…" Many years ago, I actually bought plans for a 9 meter that I never got to build, and then a few year when I built my first boat, I realized how lucky I was, plating was very complicated with tortured bows and so . In the meantime he has cleaned up his act, and the numbers speak for him - good boats, special in no way, plans ironed out after all these years, professional work & professional support and docs... Not very fast. Not much passion. No surprises.... what can I say.. very german ;-) Gerd| 6924|6644|2005-02-16 06:18:38|Gerd|Re: origami ply or Aluminum|Not surprise, Milan, I know what type of boat your dreaming of ;-) Actually I think that a discussion of stability alone is useless, because this is one one single aspect and by itself does not really tell us much. It's a static approach and is really just a number that tells you from what angle on the boat is supposed not to come back up on flat water. Well, you do not need that feature on flat water.. ;-)As soon as we see the situation dynamically it's importance is only of realative value. One of the main choices in this regard (but not the only one..) is really between capsize-prevention and easy returning to normal position. If we imagine a boat in capsize-situation, the typical case would be going down a wave with the risk of broaching or digging the nose in and then being rolled by the wave. In this situation there are many other things that become vital, and some of them would require characteristics that at the same time might deteriorate the pure static stability curve. Take a classic narrow hull with deep VCG, long deep keel and 179 AVS... there's not much use telling the wave that on your graph you still have a 100 kg righting moment at 170 degrees when it coms rolling at you with all it's dynamic energy, tripping you over your big deep lateral plan and pushing the narrow bow in for better hold... a wider lighter hull with small high lateral area might just evade and bob away, a more responsive boat (with less of the old style on-rails-forever directional stability) might have corrected the course at the last moment and so on. A MUCH faster boat might even have not found itself in the sitution to begin with... In short, I do not believe that it is good practice to sacrifice all positive characteristics that would significantly help you master the situation even before you finally capsize only so you can raise your AVS. Because that is what we are talkign about. Ok, that would apply to catamarans too, but that is from the beginning a radically different option in all respects. So in my opinion, modern designs are much safer than a fixation on the AVS would let you think, and I truely believe that if the EU rules would ENFORCE a much higher AVS this might have actually resulted in boats less secure and less seaworthy. Stability discussions often get carried into the realm of emotions and nostalgia, and without proper research of the other factors. For example, everybody likes to quote the AVS, but few look at what the curve itself says about sail carrying capacity etc. It's understandable, one of the first things we learn about sailing is "Don't be afraid, it can't fall over, because of the ballast.." and when you go out for the first time and hang on with white knuckels on the cockpit coaming while everything underneath you seems to disappear to leeward, that sure does get an emotional angle ;-) I remember that very well. As for your proposed hull, should be possible yes, but in my book: - high topsides - that's NEVER good if its only done to give inverted insatability ;-) as soon size permits (headroorm), keep topsides low. - shallow draft of hull (not counting the appendices) - always good, high Cp and low wetted area - Narrow - well, sails should be carried by righting moment resulting from form rahter than from ballast... that's why cats are more efficiant sailing machines ;-) make it narrow and it heels easier and reduces projected sail area... make it wider (within reason) and you get more power - light - by all means yes, the limit being mostly your personal criteria for comfort and requirements for load-carrying. - Watertight compartments: they do not make a boat unsinkable, they only make the flooding controllable, that's different and does not always work (Titanic)If it fits your interior layout, why not, sure helps. Build in floatation is good, but it does take up a lot of space... Gerd The Yago Project at http://www.justmueller.com --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "dreemer1962" wrote: > > Hi Gerd, > > "…I just do not like the type of > hulls/weights/drafts/superstructures etc you get for 360 positive…" > > I suppose that you heave in mind heavy ballasted, deep draft, v or > wine glass section boats, But deep sections with a deep draft is not > the only way to get a high stability. What do you think about shallow > draft hull with relatively narrow beam and relatively high sides / > superstructure, which could also heave ultimate stability? Something > like older generation life saving boats, built for displacement > speeds. By the way, to aim for full 180 degrees positive is maybe > over kill, 150 to 160 degrees should achieve the same effect > considering that capsize can only be caused by large waves. Same > waves that turned the boat would certainly heel capsized boat for 20 - > 30 degrees needed to turn him up. > > "…Floatability is a completely different topic, can be obtained on any > boat if you want it and sacrifice the volume (spread it > itelligently)... " > > The easiest to achieve on the narrow hull divided in watertight > compartments. That way, there is almost no lose of the volume, and > trim in the partly flooded narrow hull will be better then with a > partly flooded beamie hull. > > Milan > > > > > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Gerd" wrote: > > > > > > > Anything wrong with the total selfrighting ? and or floatability ? > > > > Nothing wrong with selfrighting, Ben, I just do not like the type > of > > hulls/weights/drafts/superstructures etc you get for 360 positive. > > > > Show me a boat I like with 360, preferably with inside ballast and > > boards, and we'll discuss the issue ;-) > > > > Floatability is a completely different topic, can be obtained on > any > > boat if you want it and sacrifice the volume (spread it > > itelligently). I do not take that lightly, and I do not believe > much > > in inflatable liferafts myself. Some 20 years ago my sister and her > > friend John crossed back from Brazil in the winter, must have had a > > nasty collision and they were found both dead of cold and > exhaustion > > in their intact raft 50 miles off the Scillies. > > > > I do not take security lightly, but I do stress the individual's > > right and obligation to make informed and personal choices. > > > > Gerd > > The Yago Project at http://www.justmueller.com/boats/ | 6925|6864|2005-02-16 12:44:01|Alex Christie|Re: home-built anchor and ZINGA|Thanks Ted, I'll take that advice seriously. I spoke to the Zinga rep here and he reiterated the need to get right down to bare steel, and obtain the right surface profile at that (preferably with sandblasting). I'll be doing the watertank prep today and am going to remove all the primer down to bare, plus wire wheel it, then apply Zinga. Alex On 16-Feb-05, at 1:33 AM, edward_stoneuk wrote: > > > Alex, > From memory ZINGA is sold in the UK in 10 kilogram pails, which look > the same volume as 1 gallon. The very important thing to remember > is that during transport and storage the zinc will settle into a | 6926|6757|2005-02-16 12:58:31|Alex Christie|Vent condoms|The "vent condoms" are just a low-tech, fail-safe way of accomplishing a complex task of preventing ingress of water from all angles (and Brent told me a story about how it indeed comes at your from different angles at times). Definitely a situation of "Form follows function", but the point is that they work flawlessly and cost virtually nothing to "build" (Step 1: cut truck tube. Step 2: slide vent condom over hole. Step 3: put on hose clamp. Step 4: Survive The Perfect Storm). There is no reason why you couldn't loosen the hose-clamps and remove when at dock and replace with something pretty like a stainless curved cover that still lets air through but keeps rain out. That's the beauty of building in this medium; you want it -- you build it. Myself, I am looking forward to explaining to passers-by what those things that look like the inflated nose of an elephant seal are for - great conversation starters, and yet another chance to convert another person to the Origami Way! Alex On 16-Feb-05, at 1:20 AM, sae140 wrote: > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "edward_stoneuk" > wrote: >> >> Colin, >> If you look at > Photos > 31' Sloop > Companionway hatch then you >> will see inner tube vents in the back of the pilot house either > side >> of the hatch. >> Regards, >> Ted > > Hi Ted > > When you first posted about inner-tubes I thought you'd discovered > some ingenious way of fitting a fail-safe flap-valve to a dorade, and > wanted some rubber sheeting to make some ..... > So - thanks for the link - all is clear now - but these suckers sure > are ugly - hopefully they can be removed when not on passage ? > > I've just been checking around my site, and another source of inner- > tubes are: builder's barrows, and what I call "picnic trailers" - > those really small jobs for sale at Halfords. Both of these sources > use 8" tyres with tubes - the tubes are around 3.5 to 4" diameter. > > Regards, Colin > > | 6927|6927|2005-02-16 13:20:27|Gary|Register or License|In Canada, as far as I know a boat at or above 15 tons must be registered. Anything under that and with hp over 10 hp, may be licensed. If anyone has recently gone through this process (even libertarians)comments would be appreciated. Gary| 6928|6864|2005-02-16 13:33:14|edward_stoneuk|Re: home-built anchor and ZINGA|Alex, At a previous workplace, when we Zingad, Zingared? cylinders of ¼" plate, because the rolling had broken off the mill scale, we just pressure washed them to remove the oil from the rollers and handling and then let them dry overnight so that a very light rust bloom formed to give a rougher surface for the Zinga. This rust bloom worked better than no bloom. That said we did have a disaster where the Zinga didn't take so now they nearly always blast beforehand. Regards, Ted| 6929|6927|2005-02-16 13:38:37|brentswain38|Re: Register or License|I was told by the registrar of shipping many years ago that anything over 20 tons had to be registered and anything with more than ten hp required either registry or K number. Under 20 tons or ten hp , nothing was required. I put off doing anything for my boat until I was ready to head offshore. Banks won't lend money to a boat that isn't registerd because it's impossible to get a lien to stick to a boat with a K number.In the 80s , people would take out a loan on a boat with a K number , register it, then sell it and the bank was out of luck ,as the lien is never automatically transfered to the registry. Nothing that wasn't on the registry is valid, and the registry showed clear title with no liens. All registry does is make it easier for someone with a claim, valid or otherwise , to put a lien on your boat. I'd skip it if possible, or delay it as long as possible. It ain't worth the hassle and expense ,and you have to sign over a third of the ownership of your boat to the Queen. Don't expect the government to protect you when dealing with other countries . Maher Arar can tell you more about that. If you are on the run from money grabbers, put a ten hp outboard on the transom , leave the prop off your diesel ,skip the registry and K number ,and the boat won't exist on paper. Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Gary" wrote: > > In Canada, as far as I know a boat at or above 15 tons must be > registered. Anything under that and with hp over 10 hp, may be > licensed. If anyone has recently gone through this process (even > libertarians)comments would be appreciated. > > Gary | 6930|6881|2005-02-16 13:40:27|brentswain38|Re: Boat show thoughts and "Swain Ideas" revised.|Shim up your diesel for the 8 degree angle. Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Michael Casling wrote: > Told me the same thing. I need a gearbox with an 8 degree angle down. It is for my fishing boat. Would be cheaper and easier to bolt an outboard on the transom but I would prefer an ionboard diesel. I am gonna sit on it for a while, got a buch of other stuff to do. > Michael > ----- Original Message ----- > From: kingsknight4life > To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2005 10:20 AM > Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Boat show thoughts and "Swain Ideas" revised. > > > > Michael > The one thing that Brent Klassen advised me to stay away from was > used or rebuilt trannys. Don't know if this is because he's in the > business of selling trannys but I suspect it's not. He wasn't against > finding used motors just trannys. Food for thought. > Rowland > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Michael Casling > wrote: > > It would be nice to have more engine and drive train shops to talk > to. Klassen is the only one with knowledge it seems. A new gearbox > for my engine is $2500- so I will be looking for a used one .... > > > Michael > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats- > unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > ADVERTISEMENT > > > > > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > ---------- > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > a.. To visit your group on the web, go to: > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/ > > > > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > Service. > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats- unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ADVERTISEMENT > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------- > Yahoo! Groups Links > > a.. To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/ > > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 6931|6881|2005-02-16 17:10:00|Michael Casling|Re: Boat show thoughts and "Swain Ideas" revised.|The run aft is flat so the plan was to tilt the engine to a max of 12 degrees and use an 8 degree gearbox. If I move the engine further forward I need about 12 to 15 degrees. The boat is 18 feet, the back of the motor would be 9 feet from the transom so there would be more weight forward, but I could put all the junk in the back. The fuel tank is forward at the moment so it could be moved aft. If a 12 inch diameter prop could be used I think it is possible with a regular non angled gearbox and a 12 degree tilt of the motor. Anyone know where there is a gearbox that can handle 125 foot pounds of torque and about 70 hp. My engine is a 2.5 litre Nissan. I hope this qualifies for discussion, it is a metal boat. Michael ----- Original Message ----- From: brentswain38 To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2005 10:40 AM Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Boat show thoughts and "Swain Ideas" revised. Shim up your diesel for the 8 degree angle. Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Michael Casling wrote: > Told me the same thing. I need a gearbox with an 8 degree angle down. It is for my fishing boat. Would be cheaper and easier to bolt an outboard on the transom but I would prefer an ionboard diesel. I am gonna sit on it for a while, got a buch of other stuff to do. > Michael > ----- Original Message ----- > From: kingsknight4life > To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2005 10:20 AM > Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Boat show thoughts and "Swain Ideas" revised. > > > > Michael > The one thing that Brent Klassen advised me to stay away from was > used or rebuilt trannys. Don't know if this is because he's in the > business of selling trannys but I suspect it's not. He wasn't against > finding used motors just trannys. Food for thought. > Rowland > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Michael Casling > wrote: > > It would be nice to have more engine and drive train shops to talk > to. Klassen is the only one with knowledge it seems. A new gearbox > for my engine is $2500- so I will be looking for a used one .... > > > Michael > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats- > unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > ADVERTISEMENT > > > > > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > ---------- > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > a.. To visit your group on the web, go to: > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/ > > > > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > Service. > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats- unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ADVERTISEMENT > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------- > Yahoo! Groups Links > > a.. To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/ > > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links a.. To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/ b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 6932|6927|2005-02-16 17:17:33|Michael Casling|Re: Register or License|Used to be the customs department issued the K numbers so that boat could be identified in the case of emergency. Sometime in the late 70's they became informants for the provincial government so that the govt. could collect the tax due. They would not register a boat if you could not show the tax was paid. So they were prepared to give up their mandate of properly issuing K numbers and became tax agents. I refused to provide them with the tax info so they refused to register my boat. Sometimes the govt. sent a tax notice to new boat owners saying the tax had not been paid by them with a request to coff up the $$. The tax had been paid by the dealer but the new owner often showed up with the notice accusing the dealer of being a crook. Nasty bit of business all round. Michael ----- Original Message ----- From: brentswain38 To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2005 10:38 AM Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Register or License I was told by the registrar of shipping many years ago that anything over 20 tons had to be registered and anything with more than ten hp required either registry or K number. Under 20 tons or ten hp , nothing was required. I put off doing anything for my boat until I was ready to head offshore. Banks won't lend money to a boat that isn't registerd because it's impossible to get a lien to stick to a boat with a K number.In the 80s , people would take out a loan on a boat with a K number , register it, then sell it and the bank was out of luck ,as the lien is never automatically transfered to the registry. Nothing that wasn't on the registry is valid, and the registry showed clear title with no liens. All registry does is make it easier for someone with a claim, valid or otherwise , to put a lien on your boat. I'd skip it if possible, or delay it as long as possible. It ain't worth the hassle and expense ,and you have to sign over a third of the ownership of your boat to the Queen. Don't expect the government to protect you when dealing with other countries . Maher Arar can tell you more about that. If you are on the run from money grabbers, put a ten hp outboard on the transom , leave the prop off your diesel ,skip the registry and K number ,and the boat won't exist on paper. Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Gary" wrote: > > In Canada, as far as I know a boat at or above 15 tons must be > registered. Anything under that and with hp over 10 hp, may be > licensed. If anyone has recently gone through this process (even > libertarians)comments would be appreciated. > > Gary To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links a.. To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/ b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 6933|6881|2005-02-16 17:21:12|Michael Casling|Re: Boat show thoughts and "Swain Ideas" revised.|Just had another thought, I could use the clutch and just run it in forward and forget reverse. Could start in neutral to warm up the engine and then start it in fear. Michael ----- Original Message ----- From: Michael Casling To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2005 2:08 PM Subject: Re: [origamiboats] Re: Boat show thoughts and "Swain Ideas" revised. The run aft is flat so the plan was to tilt the engine to a max of 12 degrees and use an 8 degree gearbox. If I move the engine further forward I need about 12 to 15 degrees. The boat is 18 feet, the back of the motor would be 9 feet from the transom so there would be more weight forward, but I could put all the junk in the back. The fuel tank is forward at the moment so it could be moved aft. If a 12 inch diameter prop could be used I think it is possible with a regular non angled gearbox and a 12 degree tilt of the motor. Anyone know where there is a gearbox that can handle 125 foot pounds of torque and about 70 hp. My engine is a 2.5 litre Nissan. I hope this qualifies for discussion, it is a metal boat. Michael ----- Original Message ----- From: brentswain38 To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2005 10:40 AM Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Boat show thoughts and "Swain Ideas" revised. Shim up your diesel for the 8 degree angle. Brent [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 6934|6881|2005-02-16 18:17:11|Paul Liebenberg|Re: Boat show thoughts and "Swain Ideas" revised.|Michael - Move your engine furthur forward. Use a thrust bearing forward of the stuffing box, then a universal shaft to your gear. Keeps your engine on same angle as your prop shaft. Just an idea - I will be using this setup. Paul L| 6935|6881|2005-02-16 19:56:31|Michael Casling|Re: Boat show thoughts and "Swain Ideas" revised.|Are you suggesting the thrust bearing in place of a gear box or as well as a gear box? The prop shaft will be sloping down about 12 degrees. Michael ----- Original Message ----- From: Paul Liebenberg To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2005 3:16 PM Subject: Re: [origamiboats] Re: Boat show thoughts and "Swain Ideas" revised. Michael - Move your engine furthur forward. Use a thrust bearing forward of the stuffing box, then a universal shaft to your gear. Keeps your engine on same angle as your prop shaft. Just an idea - I will be using this setup. Paul L To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links a.. To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/ b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 6936|6881|2005-02-17 01:41:12|Paul Liebenberg|Re: Boat show thoughts and "Swain Ideas" revised.|Michael, a thrust bearing on the prop shaft as it exits the stern tube will take the load of the rotating prop, allowing you to use a universal shaft between the gear and the prop shaft. this would allow you to mount your engine hopefully where you want it. I'll send you a photo. this does increase complexity i guess, but has advantages. michael i haven't tried this yet, but it does make sense to me and i'm going to use it. Paul ----- Original Message ----- From: Michael Casling Date: Wednesday, February 16, 2005 4:55 pm Subject: Re: [origamiboats] Re: Boat show thoughts and "Swain Ideas" revised. > > Are you suggesting the thrust bearing in place of a gear box or as > well as a gear box? The prop shaft will be sloping down about 12 > degrees. Michael > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Paul Liebenberg > To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2005 3:16 PM > Subject: Re: [origamiboats] Re: Boat show thoughts and "Swain > Ideas" revised. > > > Michael - Move your engine furthur forward. Use a thrust bearing > forward of the stuffing box, then a universal shaft to your gear. > Keeps your engine on same angle as your prop shaft. > Just an idea - I will be using this setup. > Paul L > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats- > unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ADVERTISEMENT > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---------- > Yahoo! Groups Links > > a.. To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/ > > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > Service. > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -------------------- > ~--> > Give the gift of life to a sick child. > Support St. Jude Children's Research Hospital's 'Thanks & Giving.' > http://us.click.yahoo.com/5iY7fA/6WnJAA/Y3ZIAA/YmoolB/TM > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > ~-> > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats- > unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > | 6937|6757|2005-02-17 12:05:59|John Jones|Re: Vent condoms|Alex & Brent, Don't be silly, Just use a dorade box, Your deck vent skoops take in the air, & water, andthe water drops to the deckand drains away and the air goes down the "raised" air inlet pipe into the cabin & viola you are dry-vented. It may be an old idea but it works. John In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Alex Christie wrote: > The "vent condoms" are just a low-tech, fail-safe way of accomplishing > a complex task of preventing ingress of water from all angles (and > Brent told me a story about how it indeed comes at your from different > angles at times). Definitely a situation of "Form follows function", > but the point is that they work flawlessly and cost virtually nothing > to "build" (Step 1: cut truck tube. Step 2: slide vent condom over > hole. Step 3: put on hose clamp. Step 4: Survive The Perfect Storm). > There is no reason why you couldn't loosen the hose-clamps and remove > when at dock and replace with something pretty like a stainless curved > cover that still lets air through but keeps rain out. That's the > beauty of building in this medium; you want it -- you build it. > Myself, I am looking forward to explaining to passers-by what those > things that look like the inflated nose of an elephant seal are for - > great conversation starters, and yet another chance to convert another > person to the Origami Way! > > Alex > > > On 16-Feb-05, at 1:20 AM, sae140 wrote: > > > > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "edward_stoneuk" < tedstone@g...> > > wrote: > >> > >> Colin, > >> If you look at > Photos > 31' Sloop > Companionway hatch then you > >> will see inner tube vents in the back of the pilot house either > > side > >> of the hatch. > >> Regards, > >> Ted > > > > Hi Ted > > > > When you first posted about inner-tubes I thought you'd discovered > > some ingenious way of fitting a fail-safe flap-valve to a dorade, and > > wanted some rubber sheeting to make some ..... > > So - thanks for the link - all is clear now - but these suckers sure > > are ugly - hopefully they can be removed when not on passage ? > > > > I've just been checking around my site, and another source of inner- > > tubes are: builder's barrows, and what I call "picnic trailers" - > > those really small jobs for sale at Halfords. Both of these sources > > use 8" tyres with tubes - the tubes are around 3.5 to 4" diameter. > > > > Regards, Colin > > > > | 6938|6757|2005-02-17 13:36:50|edward_stoneuk|Re: Vent condoms|John, The problem is with the vent(s) in the vertical surface at the back of the open anchor well. It is a good place for a vent as it gives through ventilation right from the front of the boat. Rain and spray could be kept out by a simple hood, but when a green sea comes over the front and fills the well some of that water will come through the vent before it drains away through the anchor well drains, The inner tube vents, a condom ain't much of a condom if it has a whole through it, are design to allow for the stowage of chain and stuff without breakage but most of all to stop big green seas from coming inside. I cannot see a Dorade box working there. There are cowl vents with auto-closing valves for sale in the chandlers catalogues, but I don't know if they are designed for use in a horizontal position. I have tried thinking of other neat and simple ways of achieving the same but no answers as yet. Regards, Ted| 6939|6757|2005-02-17 13:48:54|Paul J. Thompson|Re: Vent condoms|John, Dorade vents work very well (if properly designed) under normal conditions. However under real storm conditions they do not work as they cannot cope with solid water (like when waves come onboard) or with being immersed. The vent condom on the other hand works perfectly with solid water. It has a long and honored history, Bernard Moitessier was using then on Joshua in the 1969 Golden Globe. They may not be pretty but they work. I use them on my own boat and am very happy with them. As Alex has said, you can put them on when you leave port and take them off and put normal one's on if need be. So Alex and Brent, please continue to be silly. You won't regret it. Regards, Paul Thompson http://www.sailingwithoutasound.com John Jones wrote: >Alex & Brent, >Don't be silly, Just use a dorade box, Your deck vent skoops take in the air, & >water, andthe water drops to the deckand drains away and the air goes down >the "raised" air inlet pipe into the cabin & viola you are dry-vented. >It may be an old idea but it works. >John > > > > | 6940|6757|2005-02-17 14:09:20|Alex Christie|Re: Vent condoms|The Dorade is a deck vent, whereas the Brent Vent (I see now it could also be called a Moitessier Vent!) is a bow and pilot-house vent, working to ventilate the ends of the vessel. Like I said before, the inner tube vent works flawlessly, and is a quick and zero-cost way of solving the problem of getting ventilation to flow through from the extreme forward end of a vessel to as far aft as possible, something a Dorade does not do. The problem is that the dorade is a box, which often ends up as a toe-stubber and line catcher, and has no place on a vertical surface. The inner tube solution isn't pretty to some (I actually like the look --- they are charming in their obvious practicality and the sea-dog in me likes the kinship with an inflated elephant seal nose), but I cherish the fact that it actually works. When you've got a wall of green water overwhelming you from astern or on your bow, aesthetics will be put aside in favour of survival and dry comfort. Brent has often told me to judge the advice someone gives based on the value it has been to the person giving it. So if you have found that Dorades work well for you and others, then by all means use them. That said, I'll stick with Brent's 18+ years of testing inner-tube vents offshore in extreme conditions, silly as that may be! Alex On 17-Feb-05, at 9:04 AM, John Jones wrote: > > > Alex & Brent, > Don't be silly, Just use a dorade box, Your deck vent skoops take in > the air, & > water, andthe water drops to the deckand drains away and the air goes > down > the "raised" air inlet pipe into the cabin & viola you are dry-vented. > It may be an old idea but it works. > John > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 6941|22|2005-02-17 14:55:33|origamiboats@yahoogroups.com|New file uploaded to origamiboats |Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the origamiboats group. File : /794P12.jpg Uploaded by : yvesmariedetanton Description : Aluminum 24' to 32' You can access this file at the URL: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/files/794P12.jpg To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit: http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files Regards, yvesmariedetanton | 6942|6757|2005-02-17 15:13:03|brentswain38|Re: Vent condoms|That's wishful thinking John. When fully submerged , rubber vents close completely, but dorade vents stop absolutly nothing. They are for fair weather sailing only. In a hurricane with a good chance of a knock down, innertube vents are the only ones it's safe to leave open. No matter how rough it gets,no matter how great the risk of knockdown or rollover, you still need air. The round the world racing boat which sunk during a knockdown off Cape Flattery sunk because her vents couldn't survive total immersion and keep the solid water out. Innertube vents would have saved her.Style over substance priorities sank her .Don't be silly. Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "John Jones" wrote: > > Alex & Brent, > Don't be silly, Just use a dorade box, Your deck vent skoops take in the air, & > water, andthe water drops to the deckand drains away and the air goes down > the "raised" air inlet pipe into the cabin & viola you are dry- vented. > It may be an old idea but it works. > John > > > > > In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Alex Christie wrote: > > The "vent condoms" are just a low-tech, fail-safe way of accomplishing > > a complex task of preventing ingress of water from all angles (and > > Brent told me a story about how it indeed comes at your from different > > angles at times). Definitely a situation of "Form follows function", > > but the point is that they work flawlessly and cost virtually nothing > > to "build" (Step 1: cut truck tube. Step 2: slide vent condom over > > hole. Step 3: put on hose clamp. Step 4: Survive The Perfect Storm). > > There is no reason why you couldn't loosen the hose-clamps and remove > > when at dock and replace with something pretty like a stainless curved > > cover that still lets air through but keeps rain out. That's the > > beauty of building in this medium; you want it -- you build it. > > Myself, I am looking forward to explaining to passers-by what those > > things that look like the inflated nose of an elephant seal are for - > > great conversation starters, and yet another chance to convert another > > person to the Origami Way! > > > > Alex > > > > > > On 16-Feb-05, at 1:20 AM, sae140 wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "edward_stoneuk" < > tedstone@g...> > > > wrote: > > >> > > >> Colin, > > >> If you look at > Photos > 31' Sloop > Companionway hatch then you > > >> will see inner tube vents in the back of the pilot house either > > > side > > >> of the hatch. > > >> Regards, > > >> Ted > > > > > > Hi Ted > > > > > > When you first posted about inner-tubes I thought you'd discovered > > > some ingenious way of fitting a fail-safe flap-valve to a dorade, and > > > wanted some rubber sheeting to make some ..... > > > So - thanks for the link - all is clear now - but these suckers sure > > > are ugly - hopefully they can be removed when not on passage ? > > > > > > I've just been checking around my site, and another source of inner- > > > tubes are: builder's barrows, and what I call "picnic trailers" - > > > those really small jobs for sale at Halfords. Both of these sources > > > use 8" tyres with tubes - the tubes are around 3.5 to 4" diameter. > > > > > > Regards, Colin > > > > > > | 6943|6881|2005-02-17 15:18:30|brentswain38|Re: Boat show thoughts and "Swain Ideas" revised.|I used a universal on my last boat for a while. It worked well, but I was told of a wooden power boat which had the universal twist off and the Jack shaft between the two universals became a battering ram which punched a hole in the hull. CV joints are better and front wheel drive cars have a 12 inch long shaft with two CV joints on it which work well if you have the room fore and aft. Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Paul Liebenberg wrote: > Michael, a thrust bearing on the prop shaft as it exits the stern tube will take the load of the rotating prop, allowing you to use a universal shaft between the gear and the prop shaft. this would allow you to mount your engine hopefully where you want it. I'll send you a photo. this does increase complexity i guess, but has advantages. > michael i haven't tried this yet, but it does make sense to me and i'm going to use it. > Paul > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Michael Casling > Date: Wednesday, February 16, 2005 4:55 pm > Subject: Re: [origamiboats] Re: Boat show thoughts and "Swain Ideas" revised. > > > > > Are you suggesting the thrust bearing in place of a gear box or as > > well as a gear box? The prop shaft will be sloping down about 12 > > degrees. Michael > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Paul Liebenberg > > To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2005 3:16 PM > > Subject: Re: [origamiboats] Re: Boat show thoughts and "Swain > > Ideas" revised. > > > > > > Michael - Move your engine furthur forward. Use a thrust bearing > > forward of the stuffing box, then a universal shaft to your gear. > > Keeps your engine on same angle as your prop shaft. > > Just an idea - I will be using this setup. > > Paul L > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats- > > unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > ADVERTISEMENT > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ -- > > ---------- > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > a.. To visit your group on the web, go to: > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/ > > > > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > > Service. > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ------------------- - > > ~--> > > Give the gift of life to a sick child. > > Support St. Jude Children's Research Hospital's 'Thanks & Giving.' > > http://us.click.yahoo.com/5iY7fA/6WnJAA/Y3ZIAA/YmoolB/TM > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ -- > > ~-> > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats- > > unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > | 6944|6757|2005-02-17 15:23:19|brentswain38|Re: Vent condoms|I use a condom vent in the anchor well for mosrate conditions and spin the cover plate shut in rough conditions.It's never leaked a drop, despite a couple of 4,000 mile windwward slogs. I've been beginningto put the vent in the anchor well off to one side , the side with the fixed top so I don't have to pile line around it. Some have been putting a large cowl vent on top of the anchor well cover to increase the pressure and thus the flow in this vent while in port. It's a great source of fresh air in rainy weather. Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "edward_stoneuk" wrote: > > John, > > The problem is with the vent(s) in the vertical surface at the back > of the open anchor well. It is a good place for a vent as it gives > through ventilation right from the front of the boat. Rain and > spray could be kept out by a simple hood, but when a green sea comes > over the front and fills the well some of that water will come > through the vent before it drains away through the anchor well > drains, The inner tube vents, a condom ain't much of a condom if it > has a whole through it, are design to allow for the stowage of chain > and stuff without breakage but most of all to stop big green seas > from coming inside. I cannot see a Dorade box working there. There > are cowl vents with auto-closing valves for sale in the chandlers > catalogues, but I don't know if they are designed for use in a > horizontal position. I have tried thinking of other neat and simple > ways of achieving the same but no answers as yet. > > Regards, > Ted | 6945|6881|2005-02-17 20:03:36|Michael Casling|Re: Boat show thoughts and "Swain Ideas" revised.|Got the pictures, thanks Paul. This is a viable option, just have to resolve the gearbox issue. Michael ----- Original Message ----- From: Paul Liebenberg To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2005 10:39 PM Subject: Re: [origamiboats] Re: Boat show thoughts and "Swain Ideas" revised. Michael, a thrust bearing on the prop shaft as it exits the stern tube will take the load of the rotating prop, allowing you to use a universal shaft between the gear and the prop shaft. this would allow you to mount your engine hopefully where you want it. I'll send you a photo. this does increase complexity i guess, but has advantages. michael i haven't tried this yet, but it does make sense to me and i'm going to use it. Paul ----- Original Message ----- From: Michael Casling Date: Wednesday, February 16, 2005 4:55 pm Subject: Re: [origamiboats] Re: Boat show thoughts and "Swain Ideas" revised. > > Are you suggesting the thrust bearing in place of a gear box or as > well as a gear box? The prop shaft will be sloping down about 12 > degrees. Michael > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Paul Liebenberg > To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2005 3:16 PM > Subject: Re: [origamiboats] Re: Boat show thoughts and "Swain > Ideas" revised. > > > Michael - Move your engine furthur forward. Use a thrust bearing > forward of the stuffing box, then a universal shaft to your gear. > Keeps your engine on same angle as your prop shaft. > Just an idea - I will be using this setup. > Paul L > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats- > unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ADVERTISEMENT > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---------- > Yahoo! Groups Links > > a.. To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/ > > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > Service. > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -------------------- > ~--> > Give the gift of life to a sick child. > Support St. Jude Children's Research Hospital's 'Thanks & Giving.' > http://us.click.yahoo.com/5iY7fA/6WnJAA/Y3ZIAA/YmoolB/TM > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > ~-> > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats- > unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links a.. To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/ b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 6946|6881|2005-02-17 20:07:39|Michael Casling|Re: Boat show thoughts and "Swain Ideas" revised.|The room will depend on the gearbox or lack of gearbox. I like the CV idea. I can now start to take measurements and look for the pieces. I think a drip to Popeyes is in order, see if I can find a shaft and thru hull fitting with packing seal, a strut would be nice but I can get one built, also will need the thrust bearing unit and make a decsision on a gearbox. Michael ----- Original Message ----- From: brentswain38 To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2005 12:17 PM Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Boat show thoughts and "Swain Ideas" revised. I used a universal on my last boat for a while. It worked well, but I was told of a wooden power boat which had the universal twist off and the Jack shaft between the two universals became a battering ram which punched a hole in the hull. CV joints are better and front wheel drive cars have a 12 inch long shaft with two CV joints on it which work well if you have the room fore and aft. Brent [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 6947|6881|2005-02-18 06:43:24|sae140|Re: Boat show thoughts and "Swain Ideas" revised.|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Michael Casling wrote: > The room will depend on the gearbox or lack of gearbox. I like the CV idea. I can now start to take measurements and look for the pieces. I think a drip to Popeyes is in order, see if I can find a shaft and thru hull fitting with packing seal, a strut would be nice but I can get one built, also will need the thrust bearing unit and make a decsision on a gearbox. The was a thread a while back about prop-shafts and their joints. A RWD European Ford from the breakers will provide you with a pair of CV axles which have 2 fully lubed and booted sliding CV joints and a built-in thrust bearing (2 back-to-back tapered rollers) in the form of the wheel bearing housing. Colin| 6948|6644|2005-02-18 09:03:41|dreemer1962|Re: design software|"...sorry, that's a typo, should have been http://www.hullcao.com..." Thanks for the link Gerd, it seems to be a nice program, didn't heave a time for a real good look yet, but my first impressions are positive. Milan --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Gerd" wrote: > > > > > http://www.hullcoa.com > > I can't open that link. > > sorry, that's a typo, should have been http://www.hullcao.com > > anybody interested in design software should have a look at 2 > threads in the boat design forums: Best marine design and best > free/low cost design software, with polls and link to the different > sites, at http://boatdesign.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=4 > > hope these links work ;-) > Gerd | 6949|6644|2005-02-18 10:36:12|dreemer1962|Re: Aluminum , Steel or any Boatdesign :-)|> m, "Gerd" wrote: > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "dreemer1962" > wrote: > > "…Reinke for example, very popular in Germany…" > Many years ago, I actually bought plans for a 9 meter that I never > got to build, and then a few year when I built my first boat, I > realized how lucky I was, plating was very complicated with tortured > bows and so . In the meantime he has cleaned up his act, and the > numbers speak for him - good boats, special in no way, plans ironed > out after all these years, professional work & professional support > and docs... Not very fast. Not much passion. No surprises.... what > can I say.. very german ;-) > > Gerd Lacking any practical experience with Reinke's boats and just looking at his drawings, made me curious about functioning of the two relatively unusual elements in his designs. First are his asymmetrical twin keels. He claims that they are producing a lot of lift to windward but they doesn't look very efficient heaving low aspect ratio and quite a lot of surface. Also, for that knuckle at the stern he claims that it makes boat faster. I don't understand his reasoning about that. The only thing that I see that thing does, is adding a bit of volume under water making stern more buoyant. I think more buoyancy could be easier to achieve by small changes of the shape of the stern and rocker at the aft sections. If he wonted a bit more speed it would be better to use smaller overhang / longer water line at the bow. Milan| 6950|6644|2005-02-18 14:07:57|dreemer1962|Re: origami ply or Aluminum|Hi Gerd I agree with your reasoning about seaworthiness. High topsides Aesthetically, I'm not fan of them, and I can think of the number of the negative effects they produce, but also of the one positive effect on the seaworthiness - high sides should help to prevent capsizing at the high heel angles, by providing more buoyancy and sort of skid surface, enabling boat to move sideways instead of turning turtle. That should work especially good in combination with your type of the hull when you take your boards out in the storm. Actually, YAGO, heaving cabin sides taken to the hull edge, is perfect example of these principles, heaving additional advantage of the good looks. Do you heave favorite storm tactic? Narrow (or sail carrying ability - beam relation) Beam is indeed major form stability and sail caring ability factor. By using lower aspect sail plan, narrow boat can get enough sail area and sail with normal heel. Build in flotation It seems to me logical for the composite boat (just use a bit thicker foam in the sandwich), but not so practical for the steel boat. For steel, watertight compartments are probably better compromise in trade offs between "unsinkability" - usable volume. Considering characteristics of the hull material, for the size of the boats we are contemplating, compartments would give very high security. Chance of the long rapture along the length of the hull opening most of the compartments (Titanic scenario), are very remote. Milan > > Not surprise, Milan, I know what type of boat your dreaming of ;-) > > Actually I think that a discussion of stability alone is useless, > because this is one one single aspect and by itself does not really > tell us much. It's a static approach and is really just a number > that tells you from what angle on the boat is supposed not to come > back up on flat water. Well, you do not need that feature on flat > water.. ;-)As soon as we see the situation dynamically it's > importance is only of realative value. > > One of the main choices in this regard (but not the only one..) is > really between capsize-prevention and easy returning to normal > position. > If we imagine a boat in capsize-situation, the typical case would be > going down a wave with the risk of broaching or digging the nose in > and then being rolled by the wave. In this situation there are many > other things that become vital, and some of them would require > characteristics that at the same time might deteriorate the pure > static stability curve. Take a classic narrow hull with deep VCG, > long deep keel and 179 AVS... there's not much use telling the wave > that on your graph you still have a 100 kg righting moment at 170 > degrees when it coms rolling at you with all it's dynamic energy, > tripping you over your big deep lateral plan and pushing the narrow > bow in for better hold... a wider lighter hull with small high > lateral area might just evade and bob away, a more responsive boat > (with less of the old style on-rails-forever directional stability) > might have corrected the course at the last moment and so on. A MUCH > faster boat might even have not found itself in the sitution to > begin with... In short, I do not believe that it is good practice to > sacrifice all positive characteristics that would significantly help > you master the situation even before you finally capsize only so you > can raise your AVS. Because that is what we are talkign about. > > Ok, that would apply to catamarans too, but that is from the > beginning a radically different option in all respects. > > So in my opinion, modern designs are much safer than a fixation on > the AVS would let you think, and I truely believe that if the EU > rules would ENFORCE a much higher AVS this might have actually > resulted in boats less secure and less seaworthy. > > Stability discussions often get carried into the realm of emotions > and nostalgia, and without proper research of the other factors. For > example, everybody likes to quote the AVS, but few look at what the > curve itself says about sail carrying capacity etc. > > It's understandable, one of the first things we learn about sailing > is "Don't be afraid, it can't fall over, because of the ballast.." > and when you go out for the first time and hang on with white > knuckels on the cockpit coaming while everything underneath you > seems to disappear to leeward, that sure does get an emotional > angle ;-) I remember that very well. > > As for your proposed hull, should be possible yes, but in my book: > > - high topsides - that's NEVER good if its only done to give > inverted insatability ;-) as soon size permits (headroorm), keep > topsides low. > - shallow draft of hull (not counting the appendices) - always good, > high Cp and low wetted area > - Narrow - well, sails should be carried by righting moment > resulting from form rahter than from ballast... that's why cats are > more efficiant sailing machines ;-) make it narrow and it heels > easier and reduces projected sail area... make it wider (within > reason) and you get more power > - light - by all means yes, the limit being mostly your personal > criteria for comfort and requirements for load-carrying. > - Watertight compartments: they do not make a boat unsinkable, they > only make the flooding controllable, that's different and does not > always work (Titanic)If it fits your interior layout, why not, sure > helps. Build in floatation is good, but it does take up a lot of > space... > > Gerd > The Yago Project at http://www.justmueller.com > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "dreemer1962" > wrote: > > > > Hi Gerd, > > > > "…I just do not like the type of > > hulls/weights/drafts/superstructures etc you get for 360 positive…" > > > > I suppose that you heave in mind heavy ballasted, deep draft, v or > > wine glass section boats, But deep sections with a deep draft is > not > > the only way to get a high stability. What do you think about > shallow > > draft hull with relatively narrow beam and relatively high sides / > > superstructure, which could also heave ultimate stability? > Something > > like older generation life saving boats, built for displacement > > speeds. By the way, to aim for full 180 degrees positive is maybe > > over kill, 150 to 160 degrees should achieve the same effect > > considering that capsize can only be caused by large waves. Same > > waves that turned the boat would certainly heel capsized boat for > 20 - > > 30 degrees needed to turn him up. > > > > "…Floatability is a completely different topic, can be obtained on > any > > boat if you want it and sacrifice the volume (spread it > > itelligently)... " > > > > The easiest to achieve on the narrow hull divided in watertight > > compartments. That way, there is almost no lose of the volume, and > > trim in the partly flooded narrow hull will be better then with a > > partly flooded beamie hull. > > > > Milan > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Gerd" wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Anything wrong with the total selfrighting ? and or > floatability ? > > > > > > Nothing wrong with selfrighting, Ben, I just do not like the > type > > of > > > hulls/weights/drafts/superstructures etc you get for 360 > positive. > > > > > > Show me a boat I like with 360, preferably with inside ballast > and > > > boards, and we'll discuss the issue ;-) > > > > > > Floatability is a completely different topic, can be obtained on > > any > > > boat if you want it and sacrifice the volume (spread it > > > itelligently). I do not take that lightly, and I do not believe > > much > > > in inflatable liferafts myself. Some 20 years ago my sister and > her > > > friend John crossed back from Brazil in the winter, must have > had a > > > nasty collision and they were found both dead of cold and > > exhaustion > > > in their intact raft 50 miles off the Scillies. > > > > > > I do not take security lightly, but I do stress the individual's > > > right and obligation to make informed and personal choices. > > > > > > Gerd > > > The Yago Project at http://www.justmueller.com/boats/ | 6951|6644|2005-02-18 14:47:07|brentswain38|Re: origami ply or Aluminum|If you tape a 1 inch, 25 mm piece of foam to a 1/8th inch , 3.2 mm piece of plate , and throw it overboard , it will float. For 3/16th plate it takes 1 1/2 inch foam. Do enough overkill ,by a percentage which reflects the weight of evcerything which won't float( the interior has bouyancy which roughly equals its dry weight) and it is quite possible to make a steel boat unsinkable, as long as you don't mind giving up a bit of interior space.You'd surrender no more interior space than you would sprayfoaming and panneling over transverse frames in a traditionally built boat. One 36 footer had three inches of foam sprayed in, more than enought to float it.A coat of epoxy over the foam would increase the time it would keep you afloat. I don't consider the odds of punching a hole in 3/16th inch plate to be even remotely high enough to justify it ,tho. Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "dreemer1962" wrote: > > Hi Gerd > > I agree with your reasoning about seaworthiness. > > High topsides > Aesthetically, I'm not fan of them, and I can think of the number of > the negative effects they produce, but also of the one positive > effect on the seaworthiness - high sides should help to prevent > capsizing at the high heel angles, by providing more buoyancy and > sort of skid surface, enabling boat to move sideways instead of > turning turtle. That should work especially good in combination with > your type of the hull when you take your boards out in the storm. > Actually, YAGO, heaving cabin sides taken to the hull edge, is > perfect example of these principles, heaving additional advantage of > the good looks. > Do you heave favorite storm tactic? > > Narrow (or sail carrying ability - beam relation) > Beam is indeed major form stability and sail caring ability factor. > By using lower aspect sail plan, narrow boat can get enough sail area > and sail with normal heel. > > Build in flotation > It seems to me logical for the composite boat (just use a bit thicker > foam in the sandwich), but not so practical for the steel boat. For > steel, watertight compartments are probably better compromise in > trade offs between "unsinkability" - usable volume. Considering > characteristics of the hull material, for the size of the boats we > are contemplating, compartments would give very high security. Chance > of the long rapture along the length of the hull opening most of the > compartments (Titanic scenario), are very remote. > > Milan > > > > > > Not surprise, Milan, I know what type of boat your dreaming of ;-) > > > > Actually I think that a discussion of stability alone is useless, > > because this is one one single aspect and by itself does not really > > tell us much. It's a static approach and is really just a number > > that tells you from what angle on the boat is supposed not to come > > back up on flat water. Well, you do not need that feature on flat > > water.. ;-)As soon as we see the situation dynamically it's > > importance is only of realative value. > > > > One of the main choices in this regard (but not the only one..) is > > really between capsize-prevention and easy returning to normal > > position. > > If we imagine a boat in capsize-situation, the typical case would > be > > going down a wave with the risk of broaching or digging the nose in > > and then being rolled by the wave. In this situation there are many > > other things that become vital, and some of them would require > > characteristics that at the same time might deteriorate the pure > > static stability curve. Take a classic narrow hull with deep VCG, > > long deep keel and 179 AVS... there's not much use telling the wave > > that on your graph you still have a 100 kg righting moment at 170 > > degrees when it coms rolling at you with all it's dynamic energy, > > tripping you over your big deep lateral plan and pushing the narrow > > bow in for better hold... a wider lighter hull with small high > > lateral area might just evade and bob away, a more responsive boat > > (with less of the old style on-rails-forever directional stability) > > might have corrected the course at the last moment and so on. A > MUCH > > faster boat might even have not found itself in the sitution to > > begin with... In short, I do not believe that it is good practice > to > > sacrifice all positive characteristics that would significantly > help > > you master the situation even before you finally capsize only so > you > > can raise your AVS. Because that is what we are talkign about. > > > > Ok, that would apply to catamarans too, but that is from the > > beginning a radically different option in all respects. > > > > So in my opinion, modern designs are much safer than a fixation on > > the AVS would let you think, and I truely believe that if the EU > > rules would ENFORCE a much higher AVS this might have actually > > resulted in boats less secure and less seaworthy. > > > > Stability discussions often get carried into the realm of emotions > > and nostalgia, and without proper research of the other factors. > For > > example, everybody likes to quote the AVS, but few look at what the > > curve itself says about sail carrying capacity etc. > > > > It's understandable, one of the first things we learn about sailing > > is "Don't be afraid, it can't fall over, because of the ballast.." > > and when you go out for the first time and hang on with white > > knuckels on the cockpit coaming while everything underneath you > > seems to disappear to leeward, that sure does get an emotional > > angle ;-) I remember that very well. > > > > As for your proposed hull, should be possible yes, but in my book: > > > > - high topsides - that's NEVER good if its only done to give > > inverted insatability ;-) as soon size permits (headroorm), keep > > topsides low. > > - shallow draft of hull (not counting the appendices) - always > good, > > high Cp and low wetted area > > - Narrow - well, sails should be carried by righting moment > > resulting from form rahter than from ballast... that's why cats are > > more efficiant sailing machines ;-) make it narrow and it heels > > easier and reduces projected sail area... make it wider (within > > reason) and you get more power > > - light - by all means yes, the limit being mostly your personal > > criteria for comfort and requirements for load-carrying. > > - Watertight compartments: they do not make a boat unsinkable, they > > only make the flooding controllable, that's different and does not > > always work (Titanic)If it fits your interior layout, why not, sure > > helps. Build in floatation is good, but it does take up a lot of > > space... > > > > Gerd > > The Yago Project at http://www.justmueller.com > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "dreemer1962" > > wrote: > > > > > > Hi Gerd, > > > > > > "…I just do not like the type of > > > hulls/weights/drafts/superstructures etc you get for 360 > positive…" > > > > > > I suppose that you heave in mind heavy ballasted, deep draft, v > or > > > wine glass section boats, But deep sections with a deep draft is > > not > > > the only way to get a high stability. What do you think about > > shallow > > > draft hull with relatively narrow beam and relatively high > sides / > > > superstructure, which could also heave ultimate stability? > > Something > > > like older generation life saving boats, built for displacement > > > speeds. By the way, to aim for full 180 degrees positive is maybe > > > over kill, 150 to 160 degrees should achieve the same effect > > > considering that capsize can only be caused by large waves. Same > > > waves that turned the boat would certainly heel capsized boat for > > 20 - > > > 30 degrees needed to turn him up. > > > > > > "…Floatability is a completely different topic, can be obtained > on > > any > > > boat if you want it and sacrifice the volume (spread it > > > itelligently)... " > > > > > > The easiest to achieve on the narrow hull divided in watertight > > > compartments. That way, there is almost no lose of the volume, > and > > > trim in the partly flooded narrow hull will be better then with a > > > partly flooded beamie hull. > > > > > > Milan > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Gerd" wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anything wrong with the total selfrighting ? and or > > floatability ? > > > > > > > > Nothing wrong with selfrighting, Ben, I just do not like the > > type > > > of > > > > hulls/weights/drafts/superstructures etc you get for 360 > > positive. > > > > > > > > Show me a boat I like with 360, preferably with inside ballast > > and > > > > boards, and we'll discuss the issue ;-) > > > > > > > > Floatability is a completely different topic, can be obtained > on > > > any > > > > boat if you want it and sacrifice the volume (spread it > > > > itelligently). I do not take that lightly, and I do not believe > > > much > > > > in inflatable liferafts myself. Some 20 years ago my sister and > > her > > > > friend John crossed back from Brazil in the winter, must have > > had a > > > > nasty collision and they were found both dead of cold and > > > exhaustion > > > > in their intact raft 50 miles off the Scillies. > > > > > > > > I do not take security lightly, but I do stress the > individual's > > > > right and obligation to make informed and personal choices. > > > > > > > > Gerd > > > > The Yago Project at http://www.justmueller.com/boats/ | 6952|6952|2005-02-19 00:36:30|jfpacuas|Woodstoves|HI folks, I thought I remember seeing plans/pictures of a reliable, easy to build woodstove somewhere on the site. I can't seem to find it now. Does anyone have a drawing/picture/description of one that works and that would fit a 26 footer? Cheers Paul| 6953|6952|2005-02-19 14:49:14|brentswain38|Re: Woodstoves|Paul I keep mmeaning to draw up a good woodstove for the book, but haven't got around to it yet. I usually biuld a box stove 11 inches wide by 12 inches high by 18 inches long, with a sliding baffle three inches down from the top, 3/4 the length of the stove.The chimney can either go at a 45v out the back for a stern stovepipe, or out the front corner for a stove by the mast. For the foreward pipe, you slide the baffle foreward for a long burn.Costa Vida used this arrangement and it works extremely well. I like to keep the door at least 4 inches down from the top to keep smoke in when the door is open. I use an outside 2 inch pipe for an air intake to prevent downdrafts. This I lead into the back of the stove and running thru the firebox to the front to preheat the combustion air. 1/8th inch stainless makes a good stove if you can get it cheap. Otherwise cold galvanized plate lasts a long time and it's surprising how well the cold galvanizing holds on. I weld the thin walled 4 inch stainles stove pipe to the deck and stove for a permanent mount. This eliminates creosote leaks . With the pipe being straight , it's easy to clean and there is no reason to ever remove it. Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "jfpacuas" wrote: > > HI folks, > > I thought I remember seeing plans/pictures of a reliable, easy to > build woodstove somewhere on the site. I can't seem to find it now. > Does anyone have a drawing/picture/description of one that works and > that would fit a 26 footer? > > Cheers > > Paul | 6954|6952|2005-02-19 16:13:16|Paul Cotter|Re: Woodstoves|Thanks Brent. Your design is much better than the other design I was attempting to modify. The other might find better use as a mooring device for small ships. I’ll draw what you described to help me wrap my brain noodles around it. 2 follow ups: 1) Do you run the intake pipe ½ way or so along the length of the stove near the bottom? and 2) Is the sliding baffle capable of sliding all the way forward and all the way back? Cheers Paul -----Original Message----- From: brentswain38 [mailto:brentswain38@...] Sent: Saturday, February 19, 2005 10:49 AM To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Woodstoves Paul I keep mmeaning to draw up a good woodstove for the book, but haven't got around to it yet. I usually biuld a box stove 11 inches wide by 12 inches high by 18 inches long, with a sliding baffle three inches down from the top, 3/4 the length of the stove.The chimney can either go at a 45v out the back for a stern stovepipe, or out the front corner for a stove by the mast. For the foreward pipe, you slide the baffle foreward for a long burn.Costa Vida used this arrangement and it works extremely well. I like to keep the door at least 4 inches down from the top to keep smoke in when the door is open. I use an outside 2 inch pipe for an air intake to prevent downdrafts. This I lead into the back of the stove and running thru the firebox to the front to preheat the combustion air. 1/8th inch stainless makes a good stove if you can get it cheap. Otherwise cold galvanized plate lasts a long time and it's surprising how well the cold galvanizing holds on. I weld the thin walled 4 inch stainles stove pipe to the deck and stove for a permanent mount. This eliminates creosote leaks . With the pipe being straight , it's easy to clean and there is no reason to ever remove it. Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "jfpacuas" wrote: > > HI folks, > > I thought I remember seeing plans/pictures of a reliable, easy to > build woodstove somewhere on the site. I can't seem to find it now. > Does anyone have a drawing/picture/description of one that works and > that would fit a 26 footer? > > Cheers > > Paul To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor Get unlimited calls to U.S./Canada _____ Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]| 6955|6617|2005-02-20 00:29:54|coyfamily|Re: who knows how to zip file the posts?|Hello Alex, I don't know how this is done yet and right now I don't have time to figure it out, haven't had a chance to check my email for over a week, remodeling project ongoing, complete shambles here. However, I saw this Link to archiving software that is apparently used for consolidating Yahoo Group posts, it was on another Yahoo group. I can't take this on at this time but it did look like a possible for doing the deed. http://www.personalgroupware.com/alt-downloads.htm Nicole ----- Original Message ----- From: Alex To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, January 23, 2005 9:34 PM Subject: [origamiboats] who knows how to zip file the posts? Hi all, Maxxard did a great job at zipping the messages into a tidy little package back in 2002, but I have no idea how he did it. We have a group member who'd like to get at them this way. Does anyone remember how it was done, and could they do it for the our over 6000 posts we now have? Sure would be handy. A free cruise in my boat (er, when it is completed) for the first one to get this done! Regards, Alex To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links a.. To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/ b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 6956|6644|2005-02-20 17:23:25|Gerd|Re: origami ply or Aluminum|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "dreemer1962" wrote: Sorry, I had to spend a couple of days on the road, and had some pains finding connection in the countryside of Bulgaia and Macedonia... Now I'am back. > Do you heave favorite storm tactic? I'ld rather not have that sort of favorites - But from my own experience, gut feeling and discussions with friends on similar boats, speed and keeping it move seems preferable - that is as long as you have room to do so. But if you really wnat a lengthy and emotional discussion, that makes a perfect topic ;-) > By using lower aspect sail plan, narrow boat can get enough sail area and sail with normal heel. Yes, but you need to get it really, really low... not that easy. It's a good idea to play around with some free or trial software for that, and to see what happens. What you need to balance is the righting force from your stability curve with the pressure on the sail area, taking in account your reduction (reef) as well as the fact that when heeling the projected area (as being perpendicular to the laminar horizontal flow of air) is reduced dramatically. Take for example 15,20 and 25 degrees heel and see ho much of heeled area you can carry for that to balance A narrow hull will "loose" sailpower much faster. I think a really light but quite moderately large hull with pronounced overhangs and empty light ends would be very interesting. Give it a nice long flat exit, twin rudders, a waterline that will really lengthen with speed, U-sections with small wetted area for light airs. As I already told you before, the problem with this concept is psychological - people will simply not accept to have all this empty space forward and aft and even if you warn them, in the end they fill it up with junk and berths and potato bags ;-) OK, very tired, more this week ;-) Gerd| 6957|6957|2005-02-20 19:23:38|fcnncash|UNLIMITED CASH AVAILABLE NOW !!!|We have access to unlimited capital to assist you with mortgage notes, real estate notes, lottery payouts, commercial and business loans, purchase orders and other types of income streams! We can also help you get financing for construction loans, venture capital, hard money loans, and cash for receivables (Factoring of Business Invoices). Turn some or all of your time structured payments into cash payments – now. There is absolutely no risk or obligation. Your information is confidential and the assessment of your inquiry is free. Please provide us with as much detailed information as possible, so we can process your request and get the funding process started immediately. Call or e-mail us today!!! EMAIL us at fcnncash@... or call 808-530-8191| 6958|6864|2005-02-20 23:14:19|seeratlas|Re: home-built anchor|Ten anchors? seven ? That seems like an awful lot of anchors :) I think 5 is the most I've ever had on board, 2 on the bow, one on the stern,the 'monster' for big storms and the 'spare' -both stowed below, accessible, but below. Boat was a 54 footer. seer --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "brentswain38" wrote: > > The other advantage of building your own anchors is that you can > carry more and make them collapsible so that you can fit more in your > boat. In the late 70s I sailed to Tahiti and back. I left with 7 > anchors and came back with 5. They are easy to lose and you can't get > another easily in mid Pacific. I gave a welder kid patterns for > anchors in Niue , and told him that it's impossible to get anchors > between Mexico and Fiji. I hope he started building them.It would > make him far more money than anything else he could do there, and do > yachties a great service. > Brent > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Bill Jaine" > wrote: > > Please guys, before you go ahead with your own anchors read Bob > Griffith's > > book "Blue Water", a little dated but the sea hasn't changed much. > > > > He carried 10 anchors, nearly 600 feet of chain and 1500 feet of > line in his > > 53 foot boat. > > > > In our 32 foot boat we carry 5 anchors (main one is a Bruce 33 > attached to > > 100' 3/8 BBB chain and 300 feet of 1" rode), 250 feet of chain and > 600 feet > > of rode. > > > > AND I've used all of it on 3 occasions, our new project boat (a > Tayana 37), > > will also have 5 anchors, a big Bruce, 2 CQR's and 2 > Danforths/Fortress, > > plus a whole lot of chain and rode. > > > > When you're there, "scared sh**less", at anchor, in a gale, on a > lee shore, > > in 12 foot waves and the boat rolling through 120 degrees, it's not > the time > > to think "maybe that angle should have been 30 degrees not 35, or I > hope > > that weld holds". > > > > There's nothing quite as comforting as a BFA (big flipping > anchor :-) ) > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > Port Hope. Canada > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Gary [mailto:greenguy2ca@y...] > > Sent: 15-Feb-05 8:16 AM > > To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [origamiboats] Re: home-built anchor > > > > > > > > > > Is it necessary to galvanize a home built anchor? If so, that cost > > should also be factored in. > > > > Gary > > > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Alex Christie > > wrote: > > > Brent made his own Spade (I think) anchor, and it cost very > little > > > compared to buying one cheap and of unknown quality. I believe > he > > used > > > high tensile steel for the shank--- if you've got the equipment > > set up > > > for building a steel boat, then building a steel anchor is easy! > > Cheap > > > in cost doesn't have to mean low quality, and building it > yourself > > > means you know exactly what you are getting. I'd much prefer my > > > home-built anchor to a cheap knock-off, for the same money (don't > > > forget the high cost of shipping a 50 -75 lb anchor you may win > on > > > eBay). The point is to get something that will hold well and not > > > self-destruct under extreme circumstances, and the only way to > > know for > > > sure if you've got the right metallurgy is to source the steel > > bits > > > yourself and build it (or have someone put it together under your > > > direction). > > > > > > I'll see if we can post some instructions on building one > > according to > > > the pattern he used. > > > > > > Alex > > > > > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > > > > > > ADVERTISEMENT > > > > > 6/D=gr > > > oups/S=1705150872:HM/EXP=1108559791/A=2532114/R=2/SIG=12khetmg5/*http: > /clk.a > > > tdmt.com/NFX/go/yhxxxnfx0020000014nfx/direct/01/&time=1108473391113830 > > > > > > > > > 110847 > > 3391113830> > > > > > > > > M=298184.6018725.7038619.3001176/D=groups/S= > > :HM/A=2532114/rand=383952545> > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > * To visit your group on the web, go to: > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/ > > > > > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > subject=Unsubscribe> > > > > > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms > of Service > > . > > > > > > -- > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > > Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.8.8 - Release Date: > 14/02/2005 > > > > > > > > -- > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > > Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.8.8 - Release Date: > 14/02/2005 > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 6959|6959|2005-02-21 11:13:25|Scott Carle|Re: Digest Number 1100|nice little program.... i am downloading all posts with it now. will have to se how usable it is in formating and searching results. hmm already instersting. Its still downloading other groups im a member of but I can look at origami boatbuilder group and it shows me stats. Didn't realize that I had posted that many post to it. :) it says that brent has out posted the next highest poster by 3 to 1 over 600 posts from him. :) really kinda cool. I will play with it a while more but it might be worth it if the search capabilities are good. It will help to compile information for the buildingyourboat.com site. Its share ware and you get 30 day full functioning version then they want 19.95 scott --- origamiboats@yahoogroups.com wrote: > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > --------------------~--> > Help save the life of a child. Support St. Jude > Children's Research Hospital's > 'Thanks & Giving.' > http://us.click.yahoo.com/6iY7fA/5WnJAA/Y3ZIAA/YmoolB/TM > --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> > > > There is 1 message in this issue. > > Topics in this digest: > > 1. Re: who knows how to zip file the posts? > From: "coyfamily" > > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > ________________________________________________________________________ > > Message: 1 > Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2005 22:45:33 -0700 > From: "coyfamily" > Subject: Re: who knows how to zip file the posts? > > > Hello Alex, > > I don't know how this is done yet and right now I > don't have time to figure it out, haven't had a > chance to check my email for over a week, remodeling > project ongoing, complete shambles here. > However, I saw this Link to archiving software that > is apparently used for consolidating Yahoo Group > posts, it was on another Yahoo group. > I can't take this on at this time but it did look > like a possible for doing the deed. > http://www.personalgroupware.com/alt-downloads.htm > > Nicole > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Alex > To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Sunday, January 23, 2005 9:34 PM > Subject: [origamiboats] who knows how to zip file > the posts? > > > > Hi all, > > Maxxard did a great job at zipping the messages > into a tidy little package back in 2002, > but I have no idea how he did it. We have a group > member who'd like to get at them this > way. Does anyone remember how it was done, and > could they do it for the our over 6000 > posts we now have? Sure would be handy. > > A free cruise in my boat (er, when it is > completed) for the first one to get this done! > > Regards, > > Alex > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: > origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Yahoo! Groups Links > > a.. To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/ > > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an > email to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the > Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > ________________________________________________________________________ > > > To Post a message, send it to: > origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Read only the mail you want - Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail| 6960|6644|2005-02-21 14:15:04|brentswain38|Re: origami ply or Aluminum|I prefer a drogue off the stern quarter. A parachute that I bought for the job, looked like nylon, felt like nylon and was cotton. It lasted about an hour. I ended up using a half tire with the wire core left on one side to tie the chain to. I'm building a series drogue. One could sail , but what's the hurry. Tank tests suggest that a drogue off the stern greatly reduces the likelihood of capsize as it pulls the boat stern first thru the wave. Boats capsize when they are thrown sideways , then the keel digs in and trips her.. Heavier, taller masts greatly reduce the risk of capsize with their greater inertia. Once the mast is lost, boats capsize far more easily. With a drogue off the bow , the boat sheers fronm side to side, presenting the beam of the boat to the swelld and wind, putting huge loads and chafing on the drogue and its gear. Anchoring by the stern in flat water in strong winds exponentially reduces the chafe and load on gear, for the same reasons. Putting in foam earplugs , once you have done everything else you can for the ship, drastically reduces the stress and sleep loss for the crew in a gale. Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Gerd" wrote: > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "dreemer1962" > wrote: > > > Sorry, I had to spend a couple of days on the road, and had some > pains finding connection in the countryside of Bulgaia and > Macedonia... Now I'am back. > > Do you heave favorite storm tactic? > I'ld rather not have that sort of favorites - But from my own > experience, gut feeling and discussions with friends on similar > boats, speed and keeping it move seems preferable - that is as long > as you have room to do so. But if you really wnat a lengthy and > emotional discussion, that makes a perfect topic ;-) > > > By using lower aspect sail plan, narrow boat can get enough sail > area and sail with normal heel. > Yes, but you need to get it really, really low... not that easy. > > It's a good idea to play around with some free or trial software for > that, and to see what happens. What you need to balance is the > righting force from your stability curve with the pressure on the > sail area, taking in account your reduction (reef) as well as the > fact that when heeling the projected area (as being perpendicular to > the laminar horizontal flow of air) is reduced dramatically. > Take for example 15,20 and 25 degrees heel and see ho much of heeled > area you can carry for that to balance > A narrow hull will "loose" sailpower much faster. > > I think a really light but quite moderately large hull with > pronounced overhangs and empty light ends would be very interesting. > Give it a nice long flat exit, twin rudders, a waterline that will > really lengthen with speed, U-sections with small wetted area for > light airs. As I already told you before, the problem with this > concept is psychological - people will simply not accept to have all > this empty space forward and aft and even if you warn them, in the > end they fill it up with junk and berths and potato bags ;-) > > OK, very tired, more this week ;-) > > Gerd | 6961|6952|2005-02-21 14:16:46|brentswain38|Re: Woodstoves|I run the intake pipe to within 3 inches of the front of the stove. The baffle can be slid all the way foreward or back. I slide it to whatever end the chimney is on. Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Cotter" wrote: > Thanks Brent. > > Your design is much better than the other design I was attempting to > modify. The other might find better use as a mooring device for small > ships. I'll draw what you described to help me wrap my brain noodles > around it. > > 2 follow ups: 1) Do you run the intake pipe ½ way or so along the length > of the stove near the bottom? and 2) Is the sliding baffle capable of > sliding all the way forward and all the way back? > > Cheers > > Paul > > -----Original Message----- > From: brentswain38 [mailto:brentswain38@h...] > Sent: Saturday, February 19, 2005 10:49 AM > To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Woodstoves > > > Paul > I keep mmeaning to draw up a good woodstove for the book, but > haven't got around to it yet. > I usually biuld a box stove 11 inches wide by 12 inches high by 18 > inches long, with a sliding baffle three inches down from the top, > 3/4 the length of the stove.The chimney can either go at a 45v out > the back for a stern stovepipe, or out the front corner for a stove > by the mast. For the foreward pipe, you slide the baffle foreward for > a long burn.Costa Vida used this arrangement and it works extremely > well. I like to keep the door at least 4 inches down from the top to > keep smoke in when the door is open. I use an outside 2 inch pipe for > an air intake to prevent downdrafts. This I lead into the back of the > stove and running thru the firebox to the front to preheat the > combustion air. > 1/8th inch stainless makes a good stove if you can get it cheap. > Otherwise cold galvanized plate lasts a long time and it's surprising > how well the cold galvanizing holds on. > I weld the thin walled 4 inch stainles stove pipe to the deck and > stove for a permanent mount. This eliminates creosote leaks . With > the pipe being straight , it's easy to clean and there is no reason > to ever remove it. > Brent > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "jfpacuas" > wrote: > > > > HI folks, > > > > I thought I remember seeing plans/pictures of a reliable, easy to > > build woodstove somewhere on the site. I can't seem to find it now. > > Does anyone have a drawing/picture/description of one that works > and > > that would fit a 26 footer? > > > > Cheers > > > > Paul > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > D=groups/S=1705150872:HM/EXP=1108928954/A=2343726/R=0/SIG=12ik8chii/*h tt > p:/clk.atdmt.com/VON/go/yhxxxvon01900091von/direct/01/&time=1108842554 92 > 9218> > D=groups/S=1705150872:HM/EXP=1108928954/A=2343726/R=1/SIG=12ik8chii/*h tt > p:/clk.atdmt.com/VON/go/yhxxxvon01900091von/direct/01/&time=1108842554 92 > 9218> > Get unlimited calls to > D=groups/S=1705150872:HM/EXP=1108928954/A=2343726/R=1/SIG=12ik8chii/*h tt > p:/clk.atdmt.com/VON/go/yhxxxvon01900091von/direct/01/&time=1108842554 92 > 9218> > U.S./Canada > D=groups/S=1705150872:HM/EXP=1108928954/A=2343726/R=1/SIG=12ik8chii/*h tt > p:/clk.atdmt.com/VON/go/yhxxxvon01900091von/direct/01/&time=1108842554 92 > 9218> > > 842554929218> > > > s/S=:HM/A=2343726/rand=986347392> > > _____ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > * To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/ > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > Service. > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 6962|6962|2005-02-21 15:34:40|gschnell|High pressure pumps|Thought you might be interested in "no-name" high pressure washer pumps (1500 psi). Princess Auto is selling them at their new Coquitlam store for $57.99. Do you think 1500 psi is adequate for Wolfs' watermaker design?? Gord| 6963|6962|2005-02-21 16:41:58|Sailor|Re: High pressure pumps|Is there further information on Wolfs' water maker design? Earl ----- Original Message ----- From: "gschnell" To: "brentswain38" Cc: Sent: Monday, February 21, 2005 3:28 PM Subject: [origamiboats] High pressure pumps > > Thought you might be interested in "no-name" high pressure washer pumps > (1500 psi). > Princess Auto is selling them at their new Coquitlam store for $57.99. > Do you think 1500 psi is adequate for Wolfs' watermaker design?? > Gord > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > | 6964|6964|2005-02-21 20:46:58|jnikadie|Welding and cutting technologies|I'm after feedback on the various technologies for welding and cutting ... Welding: I learnt to use oxy/acetyiene in school ... not right for this task, me thinks! Next I was introduced to stick welding on the farm ... OK, but ... Then I took a MIG course ... and loved it! I own a good MIG welder, but unfortunately it's in Australia and I'm in Canada (Victoria, BC). I'd like to get into TIG ... would need to do a course (a local one is just about to start), but would love to try my hand at it. TIG welders seem to be coming down in price (still a bit $$$ though!) ... the thought of a combined plasma-cutter / TIG-welder is interesting. Thoughts? Cutting: Again Oxy/acetyline ... Abrasive discs ... Rotary hacksaw ... Plasma ... I've wanted a plasma cutter for a while, have spoken to some steel boat owner-builders who have said that they should have just gone out and bought one when they started (but far less cutting with origami). The rotary hacksaws look good ... especially if a small enough disc can be used to get the curves right ... I think outter curves would be OK (start with rough straight cuts, taking smaller pieces off with subsequent cuts), but inner curves ??? Someone posted that it might be OK in some alloys, but the disc would bind in steel ... has anyone got any experience? I know that the whole idea is to go low-tech and KISS ... but sometimes paying money for the right tools can avoid tasks becoming too chore-like - and may be the difference between sailing away or trying to sell a rusting half finished hull for a fraction of the cost of the steel.| 6965|6965|2005-02-21 21:04:36|jnikadie|Shamelessly seeking an invite|Anyone in or around Victoria BC / southern end of Vanc Is. / Vancouver willing to let me see their origami boat (complete or not)? How much space is needed to build one? I'm thinking of the BS 36, but if the BS 31 has enough space for a small family (currently two, but hopefully about to grow) ... I'll be sending off my order for Brent's book tonight, but while I'm expecting it to provide heaps of info on the how, I don't expect it to help me with the which. How much more work is it to build a 36 over a 31? I can imagine that the costs would be significantly more, but given the construction techniques I'd think that the extra effort would be worthwhile (unlike a framed boat, it's not like there are more parts, they're just bigger ... or am I missing something?). Thanks, Julian.| 6966|6694|2005-02-21 22:29:26|jnikadie|Re: Boating Lights|LED's are far more efficent than incandescent lights ... using only about 1/10th of the power. You can get LED lights that replace standard 12V bulbs ... more expensive, but they should last about 100,000 hours! Reminds me of Brent's reply to a posting about making your own anchor (you'll see where I'm going with this): "Commercially manufactured often means that they have had time to nickle and dime strength and reliability right out of a product. A few extra minutes or a bit more material means nothing to the person using the anchor ,but can mean millions lost to a manufacturer of millions of anchors, or any other mass produced item." Thing is LEDs work best when current is pulsed through them ... an LED rated at 20mA can take about 70mA at a 10% duty cycle, and will be far brighter. 70mA at 10% duty cycle is equivalent to 7mA ... make it 8mA to allow for the switching circuit. More light, less power ... but more components ... yes, but the components cost less than $1 (retail) per bulb replacement (handling multiple LEDs). I'd pay that extra dollar ... but a manufacturor can't ... his competitor won't and the average consumer will just buy the cheaper unit. I know it's not quite the same as the point Brent was making, but I wanted to add another factor to the 'DIY vs. mass produced' issue. I'm waiting on a delivery of high-intensity LEDs and the extra bits of which I spoke ... cool thing is I'll be using (assuming it works ... I've done the same thing with regular and bright LEDs, so it should) a microprocessor to do the switching ... so much for a low-tech boat ... mine will have a "mini-computer" in each light bulb!!! I plan to not use regular light fittings with easily replaced bulbs ... I'd prefer to hard wire the LED lights ... if they last only half of the 100,000 rated hours I won't mind using tools to replace them! > noticed one of the LED streetlights yesterday, my thoughts were > that if it was running on the same voltage/current as the standard > bulb, I'd be willing to swap everything over to them, it was about > twice as bright as the 'regular' light down the street, it lit up the > entire area almost bright enough to read by. > > ken. | 6967|6962|2005-02-21 22:29:44|gschnell|Re: High pressure pumps|Brent posted a number of messages on the topic about 12 - 18 months ago. Sorry, I don't have them...but they are likely in the postings area. Gord Sailor wrote: > Is there further information on Wolfs' water maker design? > Earl > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "gschnell" > To: "brentswain38" > Cc: > Sent: Monday, February 21, 2005 3:28 PM > Subject: [origamiboats] High pressure pumps > > > > > > Thought you might be interested in "no-name" high pressure washer > pumps > > (1500 psi). > > Princess Auto is selling them at their new Coquitlam store for > $57.99. > > Do you think 1500 psi is adequate for Wolfs' watermaker design?? > > Gord > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor [Image] Get unlimited calls to U.S./Canada [Image] > > --------------------------------------------------------------- > Yahoo! Groups Links > > * To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/ > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > Service. > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]| 6968|6694|2005-02-21 23:09:46|jnikadie|Re: Boating Lights|"Gary H. Lucas" wrote: > Current, not voltage is the killer. A dry cell can put out huge amounts of current. Actually, normally it is heat that kills them. This is why an LED rated at 20mA can be run at a higher current with a low duty cycle. > If the LED isn't self limiting it needs a resistor in series with > it. E=IR Ohms law. IF E is 1.5V and I must be less than say 15ma to be > safe or 0.020 amps then R = 100 ohms. So a 100 ohm resistor should do the > trick. Right idea, but it is the voltage you need to drop that you need to use in your equation ... i.e. to drive an LED with a Vf (forward voltage drop) of 3V from a 12V source you need to drop 9V ... V=IR gives R=450 Ohm .... But, we don't have 12V, more like 13.8V ... unless the battery is flat, or the alternator is running ... makes the use of a simple resistor a bit difficult. Need to engineer for the worst-case scenario (alternator on), and live with poorer performance when a lower voltage is available. Or, as another poster said, use a constant-current ... quite easily achieved with an LM317 and a resistor (very cheap) ... I'll post a pic of the schematic if anyone is interested. Another thing to remember is that it is better to put a couple (or three if possible) of LED's in series ... less waste power creating heat to be disposed of ... especially important if going the LM317 route. Even better is to introduce switching to allow a low duty cycle at a higher current ... harder to engineer, but not much more expensive.| 6969|6694|2005-02-22 01:09:04|Sailor|Re: Boating Lights|From: "jnikadie" > Or, as another poster said, use a constant-current ... quite easily > achieved with an LM317 and a resistor (very cheap) ... I'll post a pic > of the schematic if anyone is interested. I'm interested. Tidbits like this are handy for those days when other work isn't available. > Another thing to remember is that it is better to put a couple (or > three if possible) of LED's in series ... less waste power creating > heat to be disposed of ... especially important if going the LM317 route. > > Even better is to introduce switching to allow a low duty cycle at a > higher current ... harder to engineer, but not much more expensive. > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > | 6970|6965|2005-02-22 03:01:41|Alex Christie|Re: Shamelessly seeking an invite|Anyone is welcome to come and see my boat up in Courtenay. If you time it right you can talk directly to Brent as he is still at work on my boat this week. Just drop me a line (achristie@...) and we can coordinate. We were just discussing with a visitor this week the very question you had about the different sizes, in fact, and it is one I went through myself for a long time before settling on the 36. Brent was very helpful to me in working out the decision as I bounced my ideas about my family's current and future needs off of him. He's seen a lot of people in a lot of his boats over the years and has been able to see how the different sized boats suit the needs of each individual or group. There is little difference in sizes of the components between the 31 and 36, actually, so there isn't much difference in work (and you have to go through the same stages to get to the final result). The steel order is slightly smaller in terms of the two large sheets that make up the hull for the 31, and of course the pipes for bulwarks and rails would be a little shorter. If you were going stainless steel like I did, then you'd save some money by going smaller boat, but if you chose galvanized pipes there isn't much difference at 30 to 40 cents a pound. Depending on the cost of sheet steel in your area, this could make the difference for you too if money were a question (it is for most of us, isn't it?). The engine hp requirement is smaller for the 31 as well, so there is some money saved there, too. Brent's many years of successful offshore sailing in his 31 footer speak for themselves -- and he has taken 2 passengers comfortably as well, so don't discount its size in terms of what it can do. I think the 31 makes a sweet single-hander, yet can pack a small family to boot, which makes it a good all around utility boat. I built the 36 because we had originally planned on doing a lot of living aboard, but I'd have been just as happy with a 31, in retrospect, especially since most of our cruising for the next few years will be coast-wise (unless someone has a cure for Juvenile Diabetes by the time we launch this summer!). I don't think the two sizes of boat differ much in capability, they differ more in storage capacity for extended voyages for perhaps a crew of 4, and even now I wonder if this is much of an issue with our access to technologies like water-makers, and freeze-dried food. Even one of the 26 footers was sailed to Australia without any calamity or undue strain on the owner, and would be an excellent boat to feel your way into the boating world without a large outlay of money, plus it goes together and gets out on the water very quickly, according to Brent. Alex On 21-Feb-05, at 6:03 PM, jnikadie wrote: > > > Anyone in or around Victoria BC / southern end of Vanc Is. / Vancouver > willing to let me see their origami boat (complete or not)? > > How much space is needed to build one? I'm thinking of the BS 36, but > if the BS 31 has enough space for a small family (currently two, but > hopefully about to grow) ... > > I'll be sending off my order for Brent's book tonight, but while I'm > expecting it to provide heaps of info on the how, I don't expect it to > help me with the which. > > How much more work is it to build a 36 over a 31? I can imagine that > the costs would be significantly more, but given the construction > techniques I'd think that the extra effort would be worthwhile (unlike > a framed boat, it's not like there are more parts, they're just bigger > ... or am I missing something?). > > Thanks, > > Julian. > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > | 6971|6694|2005-02-22 07:25:25|jim dorey|Re: Boating Lights|On Tue, 22 Feb 2005 01:05:32 -0500, Sailor wrote: > I'm interested. Tidbits like this are handy for those days when other > work > isn't available. http://www.jameco.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/CategoryDisplay?storeId=10001&catalogId=10001&langId=-1&categoryId=12171 has several listed, and there are pdf's on the product pages, with schematics and the relatively easy formulas for figuring out the resistor sizes. -- Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/| 6972|6694|2005-02-22 09:18:50|Sailor|Re: Boating Lights|Thanks, been a while since I checked of these catalogues Earl ----- Original Message ----- From: "jim dorey" To: Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2005 7:25 AM Subject: Re: [origamiboats] Re: Boating Lights > > On Tue, 22 Feb 2005 01:05:32 -0500, Sailor wrote: > > > I'm interested. Tidbits like this are handy for those days when other > > work > > isn't available. > > http://www.jameco.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/CategoryDisplay?storeId=10001&catalogId=10001&langId=-1&categoryId=12171 > has several listed, and there are pdf's on the product pages, with > schematics and the relatively easy formulas for figuring out the resistor > sizes. > > -- > Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > | 6973|6962|2005-02-22 17:28:44|brentswain38|Re: High pressure pumps|Howw many GPM does it put out? It takes 3gpm for the watermaker. Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, gschnell wrote: > Thought you might be interested in "no-name" high pressure washer pumps > (1500 psi). > Princess Auto is selling them at their new Coquitlam store for $57.99. > Do you think 1500 psi is adequate for Wolfs' watermaker design?? > Gord | 6974|6962|2005-02-22 17:29:48|brentswain38|Re: High pressure pumps|The latest edition of my book covers the watermaker. Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Sailor" wrote: > Is there further information on Wolfs' water maker design? > Earl > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "gschnell" > To: "brentswain38" > Cc: > Sent: Monday, February 21, 2005 3:28 PM > Subject: [origamiboats] High pressure pumps > > > > > > Thought you might be interested in "no-name" high pressure washer pumps > > (1500 psi). > > Princess Auto is selling them at their new Coquitlam store for $57.99. > > Do you think 1500 psi is adequate for Wolfs' watermaker design?? > > Gord > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > | 6975|6962|2005-02-22 18:07:38|put_to_sea|Re: High pressure pumps|> > The latest edition of my book covers the watermaker. > Brent > Brent, Could those of us that already have your book send you some money just for the updates? Amos| 6976|6964|2005-02-22 21:35:14|blueiceicle|Re: Welding and cutting technologies|What tools to use for any given job? As far a s cutting goes. unless you do alot of fab work and or like to spend money on toys, a plasma cutter is a waste of $4000- 12000gs somewhere in or around there. My guess is MAPP gas or propane would be your best bet for cutting cheap and effectivly. Combined with some zip disks. you should be able to easly do anything to do with cutting on this project. Tig welding is sweet, but basically only practical for specialty metals alloys and aluminum. Mig is more effective then TIG for this type of project if and only you have a workshop of some sort, that or a place to work whit no wind while your welding. If your building in Victoria good luck with the no wind. At the end of the day, stick is your best bet. I like DC but the word seems to be AC is the method of choice. In the end use what ever combination of tools you feel comfortable with.. As its been stated all over this forum, the simplest way is usually the best way. All im saying is unless you do lots of fab work, a plasma cutter and tig welder are just a novilty. Use stick and gas to do the job, save the money and buy at set of sails. Just my 2cents lol Hope my input is useful Regards Jesse --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "jnikadie" wrote: > > I'm after feedback on the various technologies for welding and cutting ... > > > Welding: > > I learnt to use oxy/acetyiene in school ... not right for this task, > me thinks! > > Next I was introduced to stick welding on the farm ... OK, but ... > > Then I took a MIG course ... and loved it! I own a good MIG welder, > but unfortunately it's in Australia and I'm in Canada (Victoria, BC). > > I'd like to get into TIG ... would need to do a course (a local one is > just about to start), but would love to try my hand at it. > > TIG welders seem to be coming down in price (still a bit $$$ though!) > ... the thought of a combined plasma-cutter / TIG-welder is interesting. > > Thoughts? > > > Cutting: > > Again Oxy/acetyline ... > Abrasive discs ... > Rotary hacksaw ... > Plasma ... > > I've wanted a plasma cutter for a while, have spoken to some steel > boat owner-builders who have said that they should have just gone out > and bought one when they started (but far less cutting with origami). > > The rotary hacksaws look good ... especially if a small enough disc > can be used to get the curves right ... I think outter curves would be > OK (start with rough straight cuts, taking smaller pieces off with > subsequent cuts), but inner curves ??? Someone posted that it might be > OK in some alloys, but the disc would bind in steel ... has anyone got > any experience? > > > > I know that the whole idea is to go low-tech and KISS ... but > sometimes paying money for the right tools can avoid tasks becoming > too chore-like - and may be the difference between sailing away or > trying to sell a rusting half finished hull for a fraction of the cost > of the steel. | 6977|6694|2005-02-23 00:53:26|jnikadie|Re: Boating Lights|>> Or, as another poster said, use a constant-current ... quite easily >> achieved with an LM317 and a resistor (very cheap) ... I'll post a >> pic of the schematic if anyone is interested. > I'm interested. Tidbits like this are handy for those days when > other work isn't available. I've gone further than I anticipated ... I've uploaded a one page powerpoint file with a comparison of a simple "voltage dropping resistor" driver and the only slightly more complex "current limited" circuit. See LED.ppt in the files section. I used the National LM317LZ from Jim Dorey's link to Jameco ... it's cheap (23c), will do the job, and Jameco have posted National's comprehensive datasheet: http://www.jameco.com/wcsstore/Jameco/Products/ProdDS/23552.pdf The only other part needed is a 65 Ohm resistor ... the circuit will drive two LEDs in series (in fact, the LM317 may overheat if only one LED is used ... if you want to drive only a single LED replace the second LED with a 190 Ohm resistor). As Jim said, the datasheet has schematics of sample applications ... see the very simple "50mA Constant Current Battery Charger for Nickel-Cadmium Batteries" on page 11 of the data sheet ... use a 65 Ohm resistor (I'd suggest a 64.9 Ohm 1% such as mouser.com part number 271-64.9 ... strangely Jameco doesn't show 1% resistors on their website) to change it to a 20mA constant current source ("current limiter" is more accurate) and place the LEDs where the datasheet shows the batteries to be charged. Simpler just to refer to LED.ppt!| 6978|6964|2005-02-23 03:13:14|jnikadie|Re: Welding and cutting technologies|You're quite right ... TIG is too much over-kill. And the wind ... I had forgotten about it's effect ... the few times I've MIGed in the wind I really had to crank the gas up. There's always cored wire gasless-MIG ... no where near as nice as MIG, but I prefer it to stick (but stick is very cheap to get set up!). Are there any problems associated with cored wire gasless-MIG that don't apply to stick? Re plasma cutter price I certainly wouldn't want to pay over $4G for one ... how about the ones on ebay? What to look out for? There is one that has a buy-it-now price of around US$1100 (new) ... I prefer to buy locally for warranty and repair issues, but sometimes I'm tempted ... For now I'll do some research on MAPP and other cutting techniques. Thanks for your reply. --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "blueiceicle" wrote: > > > What tools to use for any given job? > > As far a s cutting goes. unless you do alot of fab work and or like > to spend money on toys, a plasma cutter is a waste of $4000- 12000gs > somewhere in or around there. My guess is MAPP gas or propane would > be your best bet for cutting cheap and effectivly. > > Combined with some zip disks. you should be able to easly do > anything to do with cutting on this project. > > Tig welding is sweet, but basically only practical for specialty > metals alloys and aluminum. Mig is more effective then TIG for this > type of project if and only you have a workshop of some sort, that > or a place to work whit no wind while your welding. If your building > in Victoria good luck with the no wind. > > At the end of the day, stick is your best bet. I like DC but the > word seems to be AC is the method of choice. > > In the end us e what ever combination of tools you feel comfortable > with.. As its been stated all over this forum, the simplest way is > usually the best way. All im saying is unless you do lots of fab > work, a plasma cutter and tig welder are just a novilty. Use stick > and gas to do the job, save the money and buy at set of sails. > Just my 2cents lol > > Hope my input is useful > > Regards Jesse > > > > > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "jnikadie" wrote: > > > > I'm after feedback on the various technologies for welding and > cutting ... > > > > > > Welding: > > > > I learnt to use oxy/acetyiene in school ... not right for this > task, > > me thinks! > > > > Next I was introduced to stick welding on the farm ... OK, but ... > > > > Then I took a MIG course ... and loved it! I own a good MIG welder, > > but unfortunately it's in Australia and I'm in Canada (Victoria, > BC). > > > > I'd like to get into TIG ... would need to do a course (a local > one is > > just about to start), but would love to try my hand at it. > > > > TIG welders seem to be coming down in price (still a bit $$$ > though!) > > ... the thought of a combined plasma-cutter / TIG-welder is > interesting. > > > > Thoughts? > > > > > > Cutting: > > > > Again Oxy/acetyline ... > > Abrasive discs ... > > Rotary hacksaw ... > > Plasma ... > > > > I've wanted a plasma cutter for a while, have spoken to some steel > > boat owner-builders who have said that they should have just gone > out > > and bought one when they started (but far less cutting with > origami). > > > > The rotary hacksaws look good ... especially if a small enough disc > > can be used to get the curves right ... I think outter curves > would be > > OK (start with rough straight cuts, taking smaller pieces off with > > subsequent cuts), but inner curves ??? Someone posted that it > might be > > OK in some alloys, but the disc would bind in steel ... has anyone > got > > any experience? > > > > > > > > I know that the whole idea is to go low-tech and KISS ... but > > sometimes paying money for the right tools can avoid tasks becoming > > too chore-like - and may be the difference between sailing away or > > trying to sell a rusting half finished hull for a fraction of the > cost > > of the steel. | 6979|6694|2005-02-23 10:54:53|Keith Wingate|Re: Boating Lights|What about a pulse current based circuit? Is there anything available for us non-electrical engineer hobbyists to look into building.? The Seven Seas Cruising Association has a document on making a LED anchor lights. A couple of members have messed around with the subject on a couple of occasions. Regards, Keith _____ From: jnikadie [mailto:j@...] Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2005 11:53 PM To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Boating Lights >> Or, as another poster said, use a constant-current ... quite easily >> achieved with an LM317 and a resistor (very cheap) ... I'll post a >> pic of the schematic if anyone is interested. > I'm interested. Tidbits like this are handy for those days when > other work isn't available. I've gone further than I anticipated ... I've uploaded a one page powerpoint file with a comparison of a simple "voltage dropping resistor" driver and the only slightly more complex "current limited" circuit. See LED.ppt in the files section. I used the National LM317LZ from Jim Dorey's link to Jameco ... it's cheap (23c), will do the job, and Jameco have posted National's comprehensive datasheet: http://www.jameco.com/wcsstore/Jameco/Products/ProdDS/23552.pdf The only other part needed is a 65 Ohm resistor ... the circuit will drive two LEDs in series (in fact, the LM317 may overheat if only one LED is used ... if you want to drive only a single LED replace the second LED with a 190 Ohm resistor). As Jim said, the datasheet has schematics of sample applications ... see the very simple "50mA Constant Current Battery Charger for Nickel-Cadmium Batteries" on page 11 of the data sheet ... use a 65 Ohm resistor (I'd suggest a 64.9 Ohm 1% such as mouser.com part number 271-64.9 ... strangely Jameco doesn't show 1% resistors on their website) to change it to a 20mA constant current source ("current limiter" is more accurate) and place the LEDs where the datasheet shows the batteries to be charged. Simpler just to refer to LED.ppt! To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com _____ Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service . [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]| 6980|6694|2005-02-23 17:09:37|jnikadie|Re: Boating Lights|A current limited pulse LED driver is definately the best solution. It is a little more complex ... I'm not aware of any "off the shelf" component that will do it (this amazes me). I'm waiting on some new components that I hope will make it easier ... I'll publish my results here. I'm working on two thoughts ... one is very simple ... a small, cheap timer circuit that drives LEDs in parallel, and a more complex design that I hope will drive multiple LEDs in series (which makes wiring easier). > What about a pulse current based circuit? Is there anything available for > us non-electrical engineer hobbyists to look into building.? > > The Seven Seas Cruising Association has a document on making a LED anchor > lights. A couple of members have messed around with the subject on a couple > of occasions. > > Regards, > Keith | 6981|6644|2005-02-24 04:49:37|dreemer1962|Re: origami ply or Aluminum|Hi Gerd, "…Sorry, I had to spend a couple of days on the road.." Oh, don't worry, I know that feeling, I don't heave a time to answer the mails daily either. I'm deeply ashamed that it took me 12 days last time to answer your posts, (double rudders, beamy hulls - course stability and ply origami royalties - posts nr 6809 en 6810) but what to do, unfortunately, after earning daily bread and butter, there isn't much time left for the real nice things in life such as talking boats. Storm tactic? Indeed, good material for lengthy discussions, I heard a few and read some books about it, last one from Dashew. As for my own experience, well, not much to talk about, the Netherlands is a windy country, so I head a number of rather uncomfortable sailing's with a choppy seas and had to sail with just deeply reefed mainsail in my 25 footer, but I still heave to experience my first real storm. I expected that you would prefer sailing actively at speed. Your favorite boat type is well suited to that tactic heaving possibility to remove dagger boards and in that way drastically reduce underwater lateral plane and move it far back. At the same time, minimizing broaching risks. I can understand advantages (and trill) of picking your way surfing the waves in the fast boat and avoiding dangerous braking crests. That looks as a very logical tactic if you heave a fast, responsive boat and full, skilled crew. But is it possible in the cruising context? I mean, I wouldn't be able to steer the boat with full awareness 30 - 50 hours in the row. Neither my wife or young son. And most of the other cruisers are in the similar situation. I think that for the average cruisers Brent's way of dealing with it by plugging the ears, dragging something behind the boat, and go below to try to sleep and hope for the best becomes only option after half a day or so, if it keeps blowing. What to do if there isn't space to run the gale? (Not too distant lee shore). Dragging parachute? Sail carrying ability of the narrow hull I understand your point and good advice to do some math involving stability curve…I will calculate it carefully. But for now, I look at that this way: take for example YAGO 31. Stick to her another 3 - 4 meters of waterline. Put another mast of the approximately same height at the back. You get about 30 percent more sail carrying ability and about 30 percent more sail area, not counting additional reaching light air sails you can hang between the masts. Wetted area is also 30 percent larger. So, stretched boat, (YAGO 40), sails at same or slightly higher speed in light airs, and much faster in the stronger winds. (Longer waterline and sharper bow pushing less water). I expect stretched boat to be about 15 to 20 percent more expensive. I draw very rough sketch of the concept in the files (file's name - long, narrow boats). Now, something completely different: Did you notice the chines on Vandee Globe boat? I think Bonduelle. I was expecting that, considering that they are constantly in planing speeds and chines are good for planing. At least one of the new boats being built for the next addition of the Volvo Ocean race, (or whatever will be the name of the race by the time), will heave same feature. This time they will be 70 ft long, with canting keels. Milan --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Gerd" wrote: > > > Sorry, I had to spend a couple of days on the road, and had some > pains finding connection in the countryside of Bulgaia and > Macedonia... Now I'am back. > > Do you heave favorite storm tactic? > I'ld rather not have that sort of favorites - But from my own > experience, gut feeling and discussions with friends on similar > boats, speed and keeping it move seems preferable - that is as long > as you have room to do so. But if you really wnat a lengthy and > emotional discussion, that makes a perfect topic ;-) > > > By using lower aspect sail plan, narrow boat can get enough sail > area and sail with normal heel. > Yes, but you need to get it really, really low... not that easy. > > It's a good idea to play around with some free or trial software for > that, and to see what happens. What you need to balance is the > righting force from your stability curve with the pressure on the > sail area, taking in account your reduction (reef) as well as the > fact that when heeling the projected area (as being perpendicular to > the laminar horizontal flow of air) is reduced dramatically. > Take for example 15,20 and 25 degrees heel and see ho much of heeled > area you can carry for that to balance > A narrow hull will "loose" sailpower much faster. > > I think a really light but quite moderately large hull with > pronounced overhangs and empty light ends would be very interesting. > Give it a nice long flat exit, twin rudders, a waterline that will > really lengthen with speed, U-sections with small wetted area for > light airs. As I already told you before, the problem with this > concept is psychological - people will simply not accept to have all > this empty space forward and aft and even if you warn them, in the > end they fill it up with junk and berths and potato bags ;-) > > OK, very tired, more this week ;-) > > Gerd | 6982|6694|2005-02-24 06:23:08|sae140|Re: Boating Lights|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "jnikadie" wrote: > > > A current limited pulse LED driver is definately the best solution. > > It is a little more complex ... I'm not aware of any "off the shelf" > component that will do it (this amazes me). > Try: http://www.toko.com/semiconductors/sgdcdc.html for a start - they use pwm etc - dunno about I-limit Colin| 6983|6983|2005-02-24 09:17:51|dreemer1962|Design options|Something for traditionalists beautiful designs of the Cesar Orsini, unfortunately for traditional wood construction, but shoudn't be too difficult to design something on similar lines for our favorite building material and method. http://www.dmnet.be/wanda/main/eng/pgsteng/mncteng.html| 6984|6644|2005-02-24 10:03:20|Gerd|Re: origami ply or Aluminum|> is also 30 percent larger. So, stretched boat, (YAGO 40), sails at > same or slightly higher speed in light airs, and much faster in the > stronger winds. (Longer waterline and sharper bow pushing less > water). I expect stretched boat to be about 15 to 20 percent more > expensive. Nice drawings.. is there a page 2 where it gets even longer? ;-) just kidding.. more seriously: yes, on priciple you are right, BUT once you have the longer boat with all the addtional weight for added material and additional wetted area, you can then increase righting moment and thus sail carrying ability and comfort A LOT for VERY LITTLE increment in width and very little penalty in weight or money or even wetted area! (Actually the wider hull being stiffer against the longitudinal bending and fore-aft mast compression, you might even be able to design it lighter... but that does not apply to us dummies I guess) In other words, you have to do 2 things: - Design a boat optimized for the type of sailing you have in mind, and that decides on it's hull shape, - and then in a second move you decide it to be as light as as you can make it, for example by keeping freeboard (and CG)low the cabin and habitable area short and the ends empty. I know, your starting point is really "bigger faster boat for not that much more money", and of course you are right. But if you compare to another, optimized 40 footer you have to call it "a slower, narrower boat with less comfort and performance, but then it also costs a lot less..." ;-) So whatever the size, keep it simple, light (we are talking steel here...), mostly empty and you will get a much faster boat than anybody else of the same LOA for a lot less money. Width, within reason, does not enter that much into the equation, the real secret is weight, and once you have decided on the building method and material, it's mostly about how high you build and what you put inside. Keep it up, that's good work and lots of fun ;-) Gerd the YAGO Project at http;://www.justmueller.com/boats/| 6985|6644|2005-02-24 10:07:17|Gerd|long and narrow|And I forgot to say: you should REALLY advance the design on that, that type of boat could be A LOT of fun!!! Gerd| 6986|6986|2005-02-24 11:41:07|jnikadie|Seeking thoughts on TIG, Plasma and Arc on eBay|New, buy-it-now for $1175 ... unfortunately all sold, but probably more to come: http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3875931975 Plasma: 100% duty cycle at 31A cut, 60% at 40A ... cut up to 1/2" TIG: 100% duty cycle at 96A, 60% at 160A Arc: 100% duty cycle at 92A, 60% at 150A Specs seem OK, price seems too good to be true ... what am I missing? Or just a plasma cutter, buy-it-now for $800: http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3849197256 7" Per minute @ 1/2" Thick Steel 17" Per minute @ 3/8" Thick Steel 100% Duty cycle (cut time) at 31amp cut 60% Duty cycle at 40amp cut setting| 6987|6964|2005-02-24 12:46:00|khooper_fboats|Re: Welding and cutting technologies|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "jnikadie" wrote: > Cutting: > > Again Oxy/acetyline ... > Abrasive discs ... > Rotary hacksaw ... > Plasma ... > > I've wanted a plasma cutter for a while, have spoken to some steel > boat owner-builders who have said that they should have just gone out > and bought one when they started (but far less cutting with origami). Site here by two women building a Bruce Roberts 43 in steel. The site is poorly designed but the detail is really outstanding: http://www.sandyscb.com/sail1.htm I bring it up because they talk a lot about the plasma cutter among other things. They do have more cutting to do though. That boat is made of lots of bits. --Hoop| 6988|6986|2005-02-24 20:36:24|Gary H. Lucas|Re: Seeking thoughts on TIG, Plasma and Arc on eBay|Some comments on the welder. It doesn't look to bad from what you can see in the photos. It is amazing what they can do with inverters today! It is a light duty machine though. As a plasma cutter it is quite powerful, because plasma is so concentrated it doesn't actually require very much power. As a Tig machine it would be fine for welding stainless rails, fittings etc. It is woefully under powered to weld aluminum though. Aluminum is a great heat sink. It sucks the heat away from the weld so fast it can be difficult to get the weld started. I learned on a 250 amp machine. It was woefully under powered for aluminum! I frequently overheated it. The Tig torch is small too, and air cooled. Tig torches get HOT. On my 250 amp machine with a 250 amp air cooled torch I had to wear a heavy cotton glove under the leather glove to keep from roasting my hand sometimes. If you actually want to weld aluminum you want a 400 amp machine and a water cooled torch. The difference that makes is unbelievable. That said, this could be a nice little welder for working on a steel boat, not an aluminum one. Gary H. Lucas ----- Original Message ----- From: "jnikadie" To: Sent: Thursday, February 24, 2005 11:40 AM Subject: [origamiboats] Seeking thoughts on TIG, Plasma and Arc on eBay > > > New, buy-it-now for $1175 ... unfortunately all sold, but probably > more to come: http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3875931975 > > Plasma: 100% duty cycle at 31A cut, 60% at 40A ... cut up to 1/2" > TIG: 100% duty cycle at 96A, 60% at 160A > Arc: 100% duty cycle at 92A, 60% at 150A > > Specs seem OK, price seems too good to be true ... what am I missing? > > > Or just a plasma cutter, buy-it-now for $800: > http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3849197256 > > 7" Per minute @ 1/2" Thick Steel > 17" Per minute @ 3/8" Thick Steel > > 100% Duty cycle (cut time) at 31amp cut > 60% Duty cycle at 40amp cut setting > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > | 6989|6964|2005-02-24 22:04:48|jnikadie|Re: Welding and cutting technologies|An interesting read ... you're right about the site design ... I certainly don't want to build a boat that way! "khooper_fboats" wrote: > Site here by two women building a Bruce Roberts 43 in steel. The site > is poorly designed but the detail is really outstanding: > > http://www.sandyscb.com/sail1.htm > > I bring it up because they talk a lot about the plasma cutter among > other things. They do have more cutting to do though. That boat is > made of lots of bits. > > --Hoop | 6990|6990|2005-02-25 01:20:13|hoss_manes|brent swain 40 ft aluminum|hi, any you guys have pics on a 40ft. brent swain cutter style,? or anyone that have info on the way it sails/handles? what would something like this cost ?| 6991|6991|2005-02-25 02:00:37|Jon & Wanda(Tink)|Flat bottem or shallow-V|Just joined the group and was woundering if a flat bottem or shallow V bottem hull with a garvy bow and low angle stern rake can be built in this manor for a 32'by 9' sternwheeler? with a frame systemit would take 1/4 and 3/8 plate any thoughts? Jon| 6992|6990|2005-02-25 11:08:09|jnikadie|Re: brent swain 40 ft aluminum|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "hoss_manes" wrote: > > hi, > any you guys have pics on a 40ft. brent swain cutter style,? > or anyone that have info on the way it sails/handles? > what would something like this cost ? Check out: http://yachtworld.com/core/listing/pl_boat_detail.jsp?checked_boats=1200335 http://yachtworld.com/core/listing/pl_boat_detail.jsp?checked_boats=1074615| 6993|6644|2005-02-25 13:13:52|dreemer1962|Re: origami ply or Aluminum|Gerd Thanks for the reaction, I will certainly design it, (slowly), further. I will also answer your post, heave to think about it a little. Milan --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Gerd" wrote: > > > > is also 30 percent larger. So, stretched boat, (YAGO 40), sails at > > same or slightly higher speed in light airs, and much faster in > the > > stronger winds. (Longer waterline and sharper bow pushing less > > water). I expect stretched boat to be about 15 to 20 percent more > > expensive. > > Nice drawings.. is there a page 2 where it gets even longer? ;-) > just kidding.. > > more seriously: yes, on priciple you are right, BUT once you have > the longer boat with all the addtional weight for added material and > additional wetted area, you can then increase righting moment and > thus sail carrying ability and comfort A LOT for VERY LITTLE > increment in width and very little penalty in weight or money or > even wetted area! (Actually the wider hull being stiffer against the > longitudinal bending and fore-aft mast compression, you might even > be able to design it lighter... but that does not apply to us > dummies I guess) > > In other words, you have to do 2 things: > > - Design a boat optimized for the type of sailing you have in mind, > and that decides on it's hull shape, > - and then in a second move you decide it to be as light as as you > can make it, for example by keeping freeboard (and CG)low the cabin > and habitable area short and the ends empty. > > I know, your starting point is really "bigger faster boat for not > that much more money", and of course you are right. But if you > compare to another, optimized 40 footer you have to call it "a > slower, narrower boat with less comfort and performance, but then it > also costs a lot less..." ;-) > > So whatever the size, keep it simple, light (we are talking steel > here...), mostly empty and you will get a much faster boat than > anybody else of the same LOA for a lot less money. Width, within > reason, does not enter that much into the equation, the real secret > is weight, and once you have decided on the building method and > material, it's mostly about how high you build and what you put > inside. > > > Keep it up, that's good work and lots of fun ;-) > > Gerd > the YAGO Project at http;://www.justmueller.com/boats/ | 6994|6991|2005-02-25 15:11:37|brentswain38|Re: Flat bottem or shallow-V|It would work well in origami. Just experiment with cardboard models and masking tape. Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Jon & Wanda(Tink)" wrote: > > Just joined the group and was woundering if a flat bottem or shallow > V bottem hull with a garvy bow and low angle stern rake can be built > in this manor for a 32'by 9' sternwheeler? with a frame systemit > would take 1/4 and 3/8 plate any thoughts? > > Jon | 6995|6952|2005-02-26 06:52:06|sae140|Re: Woodstoves|Have been re-reading the "woodstoves posts" here and on MBS, and just want to add one suggestion: Rather than installing firebrick insulation to the sides of the stove, more efficiency could be achieved by fitting 'hanging plates'. In domestic box stoves these are simply plates of steel hung on both the inner sides and rear of the firebox, by means of hooks and eyes. On a boat, these would probably need to be secured in place with welded stand-offs, maintaining a nominal one-inch gap fom the fire-box sides, and having a one-inch clearance in all other dimensions. These plates permit direct physical contact with the burning fuel, whilst allowing only hot gases to circulate around them. Heat will thus radiate more efficiently from the sides and rear of the stove than will be obtained by the fitting of insulation (assuming of course, that this is what you want !). For safety, ensure adequate clearance around the stove installation. When made from mild steel, such plates have a life-expectancy of around 10 years. Stainless would last a lifetime. Colin --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "brentswain38" wrote: > > Paul > I keep mmeaning to draw up a good woodstove for the book, but > haven't got around to it yet. > I usually biuld a box stove 11 inches wide by 12 inches high by 18 > inches long, with a sliding baffle three inches down from the top, > 3/4 the length of the stove.The chimney can either go at a 45v out > the back for a stern stovepipe, or out the front corner for a stove > by the mast. For the foreward pipe, you slide the baffle foreward for > a long burn.Costa Vida used this arrangement and it works extremely > well. I like to keep the door at least 4 inches down from the top to > keep smoke in when the door is open. I use an outside 2 inch pipe for > an air intake to prevent downdrafts. This I lead into the back of the > stove and running thru the firebox to the front to preheat the > combustion air. > 1/8th inch stainless makes a good stove if you can get it cheap. > Otherwise cold galvanized plate lasts a long time and it's surprising > how well the cold galvanizing holds on. > I weld the thin walled 4 inch stainles stove pipe to the deck and > stove for a permanent mount. This eliminates creosote leaks . With > the pipe being straight , it's easy to clean and there is no reason > to ever remove it. > Brent > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "jfpacuas" > wrote: > > > > HI folks, > > > > I thought I remember seeing plans/pictures of a reliable, easy to > > build woodstove somewhere on the site. I can't seem to find it now. > > Does anyone have a drawing/picture/description of one that works > and > > that would fit a 26 footer? > > > > Cheers > > > > Paul | 6996|6990|2005-02-26 14:13:55|kingsknight4life|Re: brent swain 40 ft aluminum|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "jnikadie" wrote: > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "hoss_manes" wrote: > > > > hi, > > any you guys have pics on a 40ft. brent swain cutter style,? > > or anyone that have info on the way it sails/handles? > > what would something like this cost ? > > Gord Schnell is building one called in Richmond, BC. he posts here and there's some photos in the photos section. Try asking him.| 6997|6990|2005-02-26 15:15:30|brentswain38|Re: brent swain 40 ft aluminum|Ian Leckie is sailing one in Mexico at the moment, a 40 ft twin keeler. He's quite happy with her performance.I'll try to find his email address. Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "kingsknight4life" wrote: > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "jnikadie" wrote: > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "hoss_manes" > wrote: > > > > > > hi, > > > any you guys have pics on a 40ft. brent swain cutter style,? > > > or anyone that have info on the way it sails/handles? > > > what would something like this cost ? > > > > > Gord Schnell is building one called in Richmond, BC. he posts here > and there's some photos in the photos section. Try asking him. | 6998|6990|2005-02-26 15:19:10|brentswain38|Re: brent swain 40 ft aluminum|Ian's old email address is alyiain@... I don't know if he still uses this address ,as he has a radio one now, but you could give it a try. Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "brentswain38" wrote: > > Ian Leckie is sailing one in Mexico at the moment, a 40 ft twin > keeler. He's quite happy with her performance.I'll try to find his > email address. > Brent > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "kingsknight4life" > wrote: > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "jnikadie" wrote: > > > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "hoss_manes" > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > hi, > > > > any you guys have pics on a 40ft. brent swain cutter style,? > > > > or anyone that have info on the way it sails/handles? > > > > what would something like this cost ? > > > > > > > > Gord Schnell is building one called in Richmond, BC. he posts here > > and there's some photos in the photos section. Try asking him. | 6999|6694|2005-02-26 16:17:06|Gerald Niffenegger|Re: Boating Lights|I bought a couple bulbs and a 65 ohm resistor when I was in town the other day. The three wired in series and hooked to a 12 volt battery function just fine. However, I must be missing something. Why heat up a resistor at all? Why not just wire 7 LED's in series, or 14, or 21 in series parallel? If there is too much light paint some of them black. Maybe cost of the bulb is a factor? Here in Brasil they are around fifteen cents each. Then again I am not real sure how the damn bulb even works ............ short of magic. Gerald| 7000|6694|2005-02-26 19:12:19|jim dorey|Re: Boating Lights|On Sat, 26 Feb 2005 21:16:39 -0000, Gerald Niffenegger wrote: > > > I bought a couple bulbs and a 65 ohm resistor when I was in town the > other day. The three wired in series and hooked to a 12 volt battery > function just fine. However, I must be missing something. Why heat up > a resistor at all? Why not just wire 7 LED's in series, or 14, or 21 > in series parallel? there's low resistance in diodes one way, the way that gives light, you wire them up without a resistor they will blow, likely just one, but if they're in series finding the blown one will take a while. > If there is too much light paint some of them > black. Maybe cost of the bulb is a factor? Here in Brasil they are > around fifteen cents each. Then again I am not real sure how the damn > bulb even works ............ short of magic. a light bulb basically works by heating a wire in a rarefied atmosphere, or a special one, the hot wire gets hot enough to glow white, quite brightly, but wastes most of its energy as heat. fluorescents work by charging mercury in an oxygen free atmosphere, it glows, gives off light that's both visible and invisible(wasted for most purposes). neons put an ac charge through a gas, usually a noble gas, the gas glows, the currents used are quite dangerous, they give off some heat. led's are a filament connected to a block of semiconductor, they generate light with very little heat by jumping straight to light frequencies with very little/no invisible light. there's an application for each type. led's are nice in hard to reach places, they usually leave the factory at the dropping part of the bathtub curve, so they usually don't need replacement, however, tying them in series means they'll all fail together, so you'll have to take the light down anyways. -- Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/|