9001|8765|2005-10-04 12:00:57|Henri Naths|Re: Origami shape and Scantling|[just catchin' up,84 unread]  my 2 cents about "expert" opinion. Back in the40 & '50 ies when frontal  lobotomies were popular form of treatment, the brain surgeons and  neurologist only understood 10% of the brain and it's function and the myth  evolved that we only use 10% of our brain, thereby perpetuating the folly.  Today we know that era of brain surgery was a disaster and best forgotten  and we do in fact use 100% of our brain (although not always effectively)  The "expert opinion" is often left to the interpretation of the masses. H.  ps Seer.. um ..on any level, aerodynamics is_ a fluid level. Please explain  your example. (please ignore if later postings does this)   ----- Original Message -----  From: "seeratlas" <seeratlas@...> To: <origamiboats@yahoogroups.com> Sent: 27 September, 2005 3:30 PM Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Origami shape and Scantling   > Well, now....tho I only slept in a Holday Inn last night... :).... > seems to my recollection that there is a bit more involved... you see, > on the bumblebee's level, aerodynamics becomes more like fluid > dynamics, to put it simply,, the bumblebee's motion thru the air is > more akin to swimming thru a heavy fluid than flying a heavy plane > thru air:) in truth, when adjudged that way, the theory, math, > physics, and  practice are all in harmony. > > In either event, the point Brent makes is the same and still valid, > i.e. someone with 'credentials' made a completely wrong statement, er > uh duh...like we don't see that often? > > seer > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Chris Lasdauskas <cml@t...> wrote: >> Picky as this may seem... >> >> brentswain38 wrote: >> >> >> >   Mathematical formulae used in aircraft design all predict that it >> > is mathematically impossible for a bee to fly. Which is wrong, the >> > bee or the formula? >> >> This is completely incorrect. First of all the reference was to bumble >> bees (they were assumed to be too heavy for their wing size); secondly >> that was basically one (German, I believe) aerodynamicist in the 1930; >> thirdly, it was quickly pointedout that bumble bee wings are dynamic > not >> fixed like, say, a cessna's wings, and when the orrect (and known in > the >> 1930s) theory was used it matched reality. >> >> Unfortunately, since it was a German sceintist, during the Nazi era, > who >>   made this claim it rapidly entered into folk-lore as evidence of how >> stupid, initially, Germans were, and later all theoreticians. It > remains >> popular with those who scorn science. >> >> Chris > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:  > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > |
9002|8945|2005-10-04 12:13:13|Michael Casling|Re: Bank Sticks and other means of self defense|This is the kind of conversation that takes place between males that live in countries that do not play rugby. It is unfortunate, but that is the way things are.  Michael    ----- Original Message -----    From: audeojude    To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com    Sent: Tuesday, October 04, 2005 7:37 AM   Subject: [origamiboats] Bank Sticks and other means of self defense     http://www.freediver.net/freedivelist/faqstuff/faq_bangsticks.html    http://bluewaterhunter.com/shopsite_sc/store/html/   shop_bangsticks_biller.html    this is very cool link in that they talk about actuall use underwater   of variuse caliber bang sticks     http://yarchive.net/gun/ammo/underwater_shooting.html    I actually had this conversation a couple days ago at the after race   cookout for the local sailing club. A few of us brainstormed many   cruel and unusual things to do to poor unsuspecting bad guys that   intend to hurt you and your boat while you are out cruising and   subject to different nations customs officers and laws.     :) several of us were ex-military with training in unconventional   explosives, booby traps and weapons, it was a creative conversation to   say the least :)     If it is pirates with automatic weapons though these would just piss   them off so that they will shoot you and your steel boat full of holes   like a pieces of swiss cheese. I want to make a point I have not heard   anyone make explicitly. Military rifles shooting at a steel boat such   as brents will open it up like a can oppener. the steel is just too   thin to stop a rile round moving in excess of 3000 ft per second. It   might delect it if it hits at an angle but at any reasonable range   shooting straight at the sides of the boat or cabin these bullets will   go right through the metal and out the other side.. or maybe ricochet   around inside the boat.     I won't go into most of the bad guys die in gruesome ways ideas we   came up with. But we came up with several easy to moderatly difficult   ways to deter most people trying to break into your boat or harm you.     1. simply being able to secure the boat so entry is difficult with out   major tools such as a torch or metal cutting saw. brents boats are   ideal for this passive defense that will work well in most populated   anchorages where your risk is covert breaking and entering. The   assailants will not wish to have the whole harbor knowing they are   robbing you at gun or knife point.    2. A very powerfull strobe light and alarm that can be triggered   manually or by motion detection when you are not there. You can get   strobes that will temporarly blind someone if they are looking at it   when it goes off. this is very effective :) also if you are looking at   fighting the militarily armed pirates on the high seas this will help   if aimed at them under the right circumstances as its hard to   acurately shoot as someone when you can't see. Also sound is a   impresive weapon all on its own. It call attention to your boat.   People breaking the law dont like attention drawn to them. Also past a   certain level sound can physically damage someone. inside your foamed   steel hull you should be protected from most of the sound at levels   that will physicaly hurt a person on the deck or beside the boat.    3. Mace.... its nasty and semi effective. this is for those people   that have already gained your decks and are close enough to hit with   it. However someone that has had training or is hopped up on drugs can   continue to funtion with a face full of mace even though it is   seriously hurting them.. especially if they have warning that it is   going to be used on them.    4. a little more difficult but that could affect the intire area   around your boat or down wind if much of a breeze is blowing is a   system that allows you to pump smoke out over the decks of the boat   and out the sides from burning capsesian (distilled hot peppers) If   you have ever burn't your dinner you were making with really hot   peppers or hot sause and remember how difficult it was to breath in   the vicinity till you aired out the kitchen will get the idea for   this.  I will leave it up to you to figure out the details for this :)    5. another more work idea... get a large pump that runs off your   engine and powers a deck mounted water  cannon.. at a couple hundered   psi you should be able to generate a stream of water that will knock a   man off his feet more than 150 ft away.. not to mention that you can   put out boat fires for your neighboors and have a monster bilge pump   with the turn of a valve. :) you should be able to make or buy a used   one from a fire department etc..    6. Bank sticks... everyone has already talked about these.    7. flare gun.. they are legal on boats everywhere.. actually they are   required most places :).. being hit with a burning flare is nasty..bad   bad..... you   can also purchase flare guns made to accept and be safe   firing 12 ad 20 gauge shot gun shells.    8. shotgun.... for a fire arm they are much more accepted around the   world than pistols or rifles.. they can fire buckshot and slugs that   will open major holes in boats. if your goal is self defense in a   limited arena a shot gun is the only firearm that makes sense. forget   about how cool you look with a pistol. shot guns are much scarier   looking to the person your pointing them at and your much more likely   to do damage to them with it than with a pistol.     9. tasers... not a lot of experience with these but hey it should work   if you know how to use them. maybe a heavy duty cattle prod :) stuck   through a port hole.    10. the knowledge that weapons are not dangerous.. There are only   dangerous people. A gun or any other weapon is going to sit where you   last laid it and watch you get killed. It will not go off on its own   to protect you. A person coming at you with a weapon or intent to harm   you is a dangerous person. In that they have the will, intent and   probably the ability to hurt you unless you have taken precautions.    11. A pre thought out and practiced responce plan to different types   of threats.    11a You should know and have practiced with your crew what to do when   boarded at night in a populated harbor by someone with a knife or   (someones) with knifes. Stay locked up in your steel vault :) sound   alarm set off strobe spray with mace etc.. not lethal is addequet.    11b. What you do when boarded by someone with a saturday night special   pistol (cheap low caliber pistol that most likely wont penitrate your   steel hull.) do 11a and then posibly use bang stick or flare gun if   they start shooting. maybe pre-empt them and shoot first..     11c what to do when boarded by persons with military weapons. unless   your a serious bad ass with training just surrender and pray. Bad ass   is probably going to get hurt anyways unless he is able to overwhelm   them very quickly.    11d What to do when being closed on by a boat with no military   weapons.. you have a multi ton steel boat.. it is a weapon in its own   right you can ram. fire shot gun in air over their heads.. make sure   your not standing in open as they might have guns they haven't shown    yet. but try to scare them away. if none of that works buck shot into   the people and try to blow holes in water line.    11e Being pursued by a boat with a 50 caliber rifle mounted...   surender!! They can shoot you from as far as they can see you and it   will make holes the size of dinner plates going into and out the other   side of  your steel boat.    my point is that you need to think about and have a plan that everyone   on your boat knows for different situations and you should practice   them just like you do or should do man overboard drills. you can have   all the deterents on board i have listed above and if you aren't   comfortable using them the bad guys will glady take them away from you   and then use them on you and their next victim.    All this applies to living in your house much less on a boat. If you   have self defense devices in your house to protect your family you   need to practice with them and also have your family trained to   respond to break in situations.    scott       To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com   To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com     ------------------------------------------------------------------------------   YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS       a..  Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web.            b..  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:      origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com            c..  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
9003|8945|2005-10-04 15:37:41|jericoera|Re: Bank Sticks and other means of self defense|I agree with the shotgun as the best all around weapon and a knife.  The shotgun can be used to fire flares, and numerous other rounds  each designed with specific purposes.    A Navy Seal in Vietnam devised a shortened shotgun barrel in which  he affixed a metal duck bill shaped end. It had the effect of  creating a dense horizontal plane of pellets.  This had two effects. One it makes target aquistion rapid and allows  for instinctive shooting. Number two, albeit morbid, it will cut a  man in half.    From this improvised weapon which by the way would be (illegal  within Canada)this marine fired flechet rounds, nasty little  serrated pellets propelled by a standard shotgun shell.  They also have a shell on the market now called dragon's breath. It  will shoot a wall of fire a good range and burn anything to a crisp  within its reach.    Too bad for the bad guy if he is in a fiberglass or wood boat.  A knife is the most dangerous weapon of all at arms length as it can  attack from any angle and not only puncture but lacerate. This  induces rapid shock to the body which incapictates any assailant  immediately.  I do not condone violence nor endorse the use of weapons against  people, but sometimes extrordinary circumstances require  extraordinary measures and there are places in our own countries and  elsewhere where life is cheap.  I'd always rather be alive to face my accusers than buried.  All and all, you still have a better chance of being in a car  accident or having a heart attack than being attacked by pirates. We  often invite our own bad luck. If you know a place is prone to such  things, why go. That's the only good thing TV is for-seeing places  that only foolish people would travel to.  Carl McIntosh   --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Michael Casling <casling@s...>  wrote:  > This is the kind of conversation that takes place between males   that live in countries that do not play rugby.  > It is unfortunate, but that is the way things are. >  > Michael >   ----- Original Message -----  >   From: audeojude  >   To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com  >   Sent: Tuesday, October 04, 2005 7:37 AM >   Subject: [origamiboats] Bank Sticks and other means of self   defense  >  >  >     http://www.freediver.net/freedivelist/faqstuff/faq_bangsticks.html  >  >   http://bluewaterhunter.com/shopsite_sc/store/html/ >   shop_bangsticks_biller.html >  >   this is very cool link in that they talk about actuall use   underwater  >   of variuse caliber bang sticks  >  >   http://yarchive.net/gun/ammo/underwater_shooting.html >  >   I actually had this conversation a couple days ago at the after   race  >   cookout for the local sailing club. A few of us brainstormed many >   cruel and unusual things to do to poor unsuspecting bad guys that >   intend to hurt you and your boat while you are out cruising and >   subject to different nations customs officers and laws.  >  >   :) several of us were ex-military with training in unconventional >   explosives, booby traps and weapons, it was a creative   conversation to  >   say the least :) >  >  >   If it is pirates with automatic weapons though these would just   piss  >   them off so that they will shoot you and your steel boat full of   holes  >   like a pieces of swiss cheese. I want to make a point I have not   heard  >   anyone make explicitly. Military rifles shooting at a steel boat   such  >   as brents will open it up like a can oppener. the steel is just   too  >   thin to stop a rile round moving in excess of 3000 ft per   second. It  >   might delect it if it hits at an angle but at any reasonable   range  >   shooting straight at the sides of the boat or cabin these   bullets will  >   go right through the metal and out the other side.. or maybe   ricochet  >   around inside the boat.  >  >   I won't go into most of the bad guys die in gruesome ways ideas   we  >   came up with. But we came up with several easy to moderatly   difficult  >   ways to deter most people trying to break into your boat or harm   you.  >  >  >   1. simply being able to secure the boat so entry is difficult   with out  >   major tools such as a torch or metal cutting saw. brents boats   are  >   ideal for this passive defense that will work well in most   populated  >   anchorages where your risk is covert breaking and entering. The >   assailants will not wish to have the whole harbor knowing they   are  >   robbing you at gun or knife point. >  >   2. A very powerfull strobe light and alarm that can be triggered >   manually or by motion detection when you are not there. You can   get  >   strobes that will temporarly blind someone if they are looking   at it  >   when it goes off. this is very effective :) also if you are   looking at  >   fighting the militarily armed pirates on the high seas this will   help  >   if aimed at them under the right circumstances as its hard to >   acurately shoot as someone when you can't see. Also sound is a >   impresive weapon all on its own. It call attention to your boat. >   People breaking the law dont like attention drawn to them. Also   past a  >   certain level sound can physically damage someone. inside your   foamed  >   steel hull you should be protected from most of the sound at   levels  >   that will physicaly hurt a person on the deck or beside the boat. >  >   3. Mace.... its nasty and semi effective. this is for those   people  >   that have already gained your decks and are close enough to hit   with  >   it. However someone that has had training or is hopped up on   drugs can  >   continue to funtion with a face full of mace even though it is >   seriously hurting them.. especially if they have warning that it   is  >   going to be used on them. >  >   4. a little more difficult but that could affect the intire area >   around your boat or down wind if much of a breeze is blowing is a >   system that allows you to pump smoke out over the decks of the   boat  >   and out the sides from burning capsesian (distilled hot peppers)   If  >   you have ever burn't your dinner you were making with really hot >   peppers or hot sause and remember how difficult it was to breath   in  >   the vicinity till you aired out the kitchen will get the idea for >   this.  I will leave it up to you to figure out the details for   this :)  >  >   5. another more work idea... get a large pump that runs off your >   engine and powers a deck mounted water  cannon.. at a couple   hundered  >   psi you should be able to generate a stream of water that will   knock a  >   man off his feet more than 150 ft away.. not to mention that you   can  >   put out boat fires for your neighboors and have a monster bilge   pump  >   with the turn of a valve. :) you should be able to make or buy a   used  >   one from a fire department etc.. >  >   6. Bank sticks... everyone has already talked about these. >  >   7. flare gun.. they are legal on boats everywhere.. actually   they are  >   required most places :).. being hit with a burning flare is   nasty..bad  >   bad..... you   can also purchase flare guns made to accept and   be safe  >   firing 12 ad 20 gauge shot gun shells. >  >   8. shotgun.... for a fire arm they are much more accepted around   the  >   world than pistols or rifles.. they can fire buckshot and slugs   that  >   will open major holes in boats. if your goal is self defense in a >   limited arena a shot gun is the only firearm that makes sense.   forget  >   about how cool you look with a pistol. shot guns are much scarier >   looking to the person your pointing them at and your much more   likely  >   to do damage to them with it than with a pistol.  >  >   9. tasers... not a lot of experience with these but hey it   should work  >   if you know how to use them. maybe a heavy duty cattle prod :)   stuck  >   through a port hole. >  >   10. the knowledge that weapons are not dangerous.. There are only >   dangerous people. A gun or any other weapon is going to sit   where you  >   last laid it and watch you get killed. It will not go off on its   own  >   to protect you. A person coming at you with a weapon or intent   to harm  >   you is a dangerous person. In that they have the will, intent and >   probably the ability to hurt you unless you have taken   precautions.  >  >   11. A pre thought out and practiced responce plan to different   types  >   of threats.  >   11a You should know and have practiced with your crew what to do   when  >   boarded at night in a populated harbor by someone with a knife or >   (someones) with knifes. Stay locked up in your steel vault :)   sound  >   alarm set off strobe spray with mace etc.. not lethal is   addequet.  >  >   11b. What you do when boarded by someone with a saturday night   special  >   pistol (cheap low caliber pistol that most likely wont penitrate   your  >   steel hull.) do 11a and then posibly use bang stick or flare gun   if  >   they start shooting. maybe pre-empt them and shoot first..  >  >   11c what to do when boarded by persons with military weapons.   unless  >   your a serious bad ass with training just surrender and pray.   Bad ass  >   is probably going to get hurt anyways unless he is able to   overwhelm  >   them very quickly. >  >   11d What to do when being closed on by a boat with no military >   weapons.. you have a multi ton steel boat.. it is a weapon in   its own  >   right you can ram. fire shot gun in air over their heads.. make   sure  >   your not standing in open as they might have guns they haven't   shown   >   yet. but try to scare them away. if none of that works buck shot   into  >   the people and try to blow holes in water line. >  >   11e Being pursued by a boat with a 50 caliber rifle mounted... >   surender!! They can shoot you from as far as they can see you   and it  >   will make holes the size of dinner plates going into and out the   other  >   side of  your steel boat. >  >   my point is that you need to think about and have a plan that   everyone  >   on your boat knows for different situations and you should   practice  >   them just like you do or should do man overboard drills. you can   have  >   all the deterents on board i have listed above and if you aren't >   comfortable using them the bad guys will glady take them away   from you  >   and then use them on you and their next victim. >  >   All this applies to living in your house much less on a boat. If   you  >   have self defense devices in your house to protect your family   you  >   need to practice with them and also have your family trained to >   respond to break in situations. >  >   scott >  >  >  >  >   To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com >   To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-  unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com   >  >  >  > -------------------------------------------------------------------  -----------  >   YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS  >  >     a..  Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web. >        >     b..  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >      origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com >        >     c..  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms   of Service.   >  >  > -------------------------------------------------------------------  -----------  >  >  >  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
9004|8945|2005-10-04 16:06:32|edward_stoneuk|Re: Hatches and door ideas|Sugar,  I think that Scott says it all really.  Ones response would vary,  according to the situation, from offering the visitor a nice cup of  tea, through fighting like a wild cat to abject terror.  If the  incident occurred in the ocean then probably a large vessel would be  involved with a fair sized gang and discretion might be the better  part of valour. Although I had a burglar alarm for the shed where I  am building my boat I hadn't thought of putting one on the boat.  I  cannot imagine why one would want it on while underway anyway.  To  comply with the Colregs there should be a watch kept.  If someone  did come aboard unannounced while underway I would make a note in  the log to reprimand the Officer of the Watch. According to the IMO  most armed assaults on vessels happen while they are at anchor or  berthed.  I would try and avoid areas where these assaults take  place much the same, as I would avoid certain areas of major towns  and cities at night.  My recommendation for personnel protection  inside a vessel, if it was safe and legal to do so, would be a sawn- off 12 bore shotgun with a cut down stock.  Rifles and bang sticks  are unwieldy, your assailant who in all probability is younger,  fitter and more desperate than me would probably knock it away; hand  guns powerful enough to stop an assailant rather then just wound and  irritate could result in dangerous ricochets, holes in the hull and  the GPS or compass being destroyed.  The downside of using a sawn- off shotgun is having to clean away the human tissue imbedded in the  woodwork..  There was a programme on the TV recently about the US Navy, I think,  training dolphins for military purposes. This gave me an idea for  taking the ultimate sanction to the other vessel, my recommendation  would be a highly trained kamikaze or suicide bomber parrot that  would fly to the enemy captain landing on his shoulder before  pulling his ripcord.  Given that an intrusion is more likely to be when the vessel is  anchored or berthed; if one sees someone in the darkness on board  then before firing at them one should first ascertain that it is not  ones beloved or a crew member got up to visit the toilet or a  drunken spring breaker on the wrong boat.  15 years ago my wife and I drove a motor home 12,300 miles around  Australia on a three-month vacation.  Many road signs on the outback  have bullet holes in them and travellers have been attacked.  Some  recreational travellers we met travelled in convoys and we met a  Danish couple with two small children who kept a length of steel  pipe in their camper van to deter trouble.  When we stopped over  night in the outback which is beautiful and well worth a visit, we  would look out for a suitable spot to camp just before dusk.  We  always made sure that no one saw us leave the road, slowing down to  let any following vehicles overtake and pass out of view.  We would  then drive off the road to get out of sight of it and park so that  we could drive straight out if we had to leave in a hurry.  We kept  a 23" machete with us.  These little rituals gave as a feeling of  security.  I guess whatever makes you feel secure is a good thing  provided it is safe and legal to do so.  Regards, Ted|
9005|8765|2005-10-04 16:49:58|khooper_fboats|Re: Origami shape and Scantling|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Henri Naths" <c_hnaths@t...> wrote:   > Today we know that era of brain surgery was a disaster and best  forgotten   > and we do in fact use 100% of our brain   Sheezus, was that supposed to be reassuring? At least before I had hope. =^0|
9006|8765|2005-10-04 17:02:53|khooper_fboats|Furling Wind Generators [WAS Re: Savonious power]|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "sae140" <colinpowell@f...> wrote:   > On one of the DIY generator sites I spotted a > brilliantly simple device for regulating a > conventional prop generator - nothing more > than the generator head being hinged to the > support pole and kept in place by a spring.   Would probably be otherpower.com, brilliant site if you want to build and understand wind generators. Here is a furling permanent-magnet wind gen made from the front end of a junked Volvo (it sounds hacked up and I'm sure it's too heavy for a boat but it's actually extremely elegant):  http://www.otherpower.com/bdwm53.html  Their furler may be derivative from Hugh Piggott's work:  http://www.scoraigwind.com/brakeupdate/index.htm#tail  His whole site is incredible:  http://www.scoraigwind.com/index.htm  Seems like you could furl a slender Savonious by putting its axis to wind this way but I dunno.  --Hoop|
9007|8945|2005-10-04 17:26:47|brentswain38|Re: Bank Sticks and other means of self defense|I once read about campers who were worried about a maurauding bear.  All they had was a shotgun with #8 shot.I since read about an old  hillbilly trick that would work in that situation. They take a 12  guage shotshell and cut the plastic case at the aft end of the shot  most of the way thru, leaving 1/4 inch of case intact on each  side.Then when you shoot, the plastic housing the shot stays intact  ant travells with the shot , holding it together until impact. Then  it's like a grenade going off inside the bear.Probably better than  the alternatives in bear country.It'll stop him quicker than anything  else. Brent  --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "jericoera" <jericoera@y...>  wrote:  > I agree with the shotgun as the best all around weapon and a knife.  > The shotgun can be used to fire flares, and numerous other rounds  > each designed with specific purposes.   >  > A Navy Seal in Vietnam devised a shortened shotgun barrel in which  > he affixed a metal duck bill shaped end. It had the effect of  > creating a dense horizontal plane of pellets. >  > This had two effects. One it makes target aquistion rapid and   allows   > for instinctive shooting. Number two, albeit morbid, it will cut a  > man in half.   >  > From this improvised weapon which by the way would be (illegal  > within Canada)this marine fired flechet rounds, nasty little  > serrated pellets propelled by a standard shotgun shell. >  > They also have a shell on the market now called dragon's breath. It  > will shoot a wall of fire a good range and burn anything to a crisp  > within its reach.   >  > Too bad for the bad guy if he is in a fiberglass or wood boat. >  > A knife is the most dangerous weapon of all at arms length as it   can   > attack from any angle and not only puncture but lacerate. This  > induces rapid shock to the body which incapictates any assailant  > immediately. >  > I do not condone violence nor endorse the use of weapons against  > people, but sometimes extrordinary circumstances require  > extraordinary measures and there are places in our own countries   and   > elsewhere where life is cheap. >  > I'd always rather be alive to face my accusers than buried. >  > All and all, you still have a better chance of being in a car  > accident or having a heart attack than being attacked by pirates.   We   > often invite our own bad luck. If you know a place is prone to such  > things, why go. That's the only good thing TV is for-seeing places  > that only foolish people would travel to. >  > Carl McIntosh >  >  > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Michael Casling <casling@s...>  > wrote: > > This is the kind of conversation that takes place between males  > that live in countries that do not play rugby. > > It is unfortunate, but that is the way things are. > >  > > Michael > >   ----- Original Message -----  > >   From: audeojude  > >   To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com  > >   Sent: Tuesday, October 04, 2005 7:37 AM > >   Subject: [origamiboats] Bank Sticks and other means of self  > defense > >  > >  > >    > http://www.freediver.net/freedivelist/faqstuff/faq_bangsticks.html > >  > >   http://bluewaterhunter.com/shopsite_sc/store/html/ > >   shop_bangsticks_biller.html > >  > >   this is very cool link in that they talk about actuall use  > underwater > >   of variuse caliber bang sticks  > >  > >   http://yarchive.net/gun/ammo/underwater_shooting.html > >  > >   I actually had this conversation a couple days ago at the after  > race > >   cookout for the local sailing club. A few of us brainstormed   many  > >   cruel and unusual things to do to poor unsuspecting bad guys   that  > >   intend to hurt you and your boat while you are out cruising and > >   subject to different nations customs officers and laws.  > >  > >   :) several of us were ex-military with training in   unconventional  > >   explosives, booby traps and weapons, it was a creative  > conversation to > >   say the least :) > >  > >  > >   If it is pirates with automatic weapons though these would just  > piss > >   them off so that they will shoot you and your steel boat full   of   > holes > >   like a pieces of swiss cheese. I want to make a point I have   not   > heard > >   anyone make explicitly. Military rifles shooting at a steel   boat   > such > >   as brents will open it up like a can oppener. the steel is just  > too > >   thin to stop a rile round moving in excess of 3000 ft per  > second. It > >   might delect it if it hits at an angle but at any reasonable  > range > >   shooting straight at the sides of the boat or cabin these  > bullets will > >   go right through the metal and out the other side.. or maybe  > ricochet > >   around inside the boat.  > >  > >   I won't go into most of the bad guys die in gruesome ways ideas  > we > >   came up with. But we came up with several easy to moderatly  > difficult > >   ways to deter most people trying to break into your boat or   harm   > you. > >  > >  > >   1. simply being able to secure the boat so entry is difficult  > with out > >   major tools such as a torch or metal cutting saw. brents boats  > are > >   ideal for this passive defense that will work well in most  > populated > >   anchorages where your risk is covert breaking and entering. The > >   assailants will not wish to have the whole harbor knowing they  > are > >   robbing you at gun or knife point. > >  > >   2. A very powerfull strobe light and alarm that can be triggered > >   manually or by motion detection when you are not there. You can  > get > >   strobes that will temporarly blind someone if they are looking  > at it > >   when it goes off. this is very effective :) also if you are  > looking at > >   fighting the militarily armed pirates on the high seas this   will   > help > >   if aimed at them under the right circumstances as its hard to > >   acurately shoot as someone when you can't see. Also sound is a > >   impresive weapon all on its own. It call attention to your boat. > >   People breaking the law dont like attention drawn to them. Also  > past a > >   certain level sound can physically damage someone. inside your  > foamed > >   steel hull you should be protected from most of the sound at  > levels > >   that will physicaly hurt a person on the deck or beside the   boat.  > >  > >   3. Mace.... its nasty and semi effective. this is for those  > people > >   that have already gained your decks and are close enough to hit  > with > >   it. However someone that has had training or is hopped up on  > drugs can > >   continue to funtion with a face full of mace even though it is > >   seriously hurting them.. especially if they have warning that   it   > is > >   going to be used on them. > >  > >   4. a little more difficult but that could affect the intire area > >   around your boat or down wind if much of a breeze is blowing is   a  > >   system that allows you to pump smoke out over the decks of the  > boat > >   and out the sides from burning capsesian (distilled hot   peppers)   > If > >   you have ever burn't your dinner you were making with really hot > >   peppers or hot sause and remember how difficult it was to   breath   > in > >   the vicinity till you aired out the kitchen will get the idea   for  > >   this.  I will leave it up to you to figure out the details for  > this :) > >  > >   5. another more work idea... get a large pump that runs off your > >   engine and powers a deck mounted water  cannon.. at a couple  > hundered > >   psi you should be able to generate a stream of water that will  > knock a > >   man off his feet more than 150 ft away.. not to mention that   you   > can > >   put out boat fires for your neighboors and have a monster bilge  > pump > >   with the turn of a valve. :) you should be able to make or buy   a   > used > >   one from a fire department etc.. > >  > >   6. Bank sticks... everyone has already talked about these. > >  > >   7. flare gun.. they are legal on boats everywhere.. actually  > they are > >   required most places :).. being hit with a burning flare is  > nasty..bad > >   bad..... you   can also purchase flare guns made to accept and  > be safe > >   firing 12 ad 20 gauge shot gun shells. > >  > >   8. shotgun.... for a fire arm they are much more accepted   around   > the > >   world than pistols or rifles.. they can fire buckshot and slugs  > that > >   will open major holes in boats. if your goal is self defense in   a  > >   limited arena a shot gun is the only firearm that makes sense.  > forget > >   about how cool you look with a pistol. shot guns are much   scarier  > >   looking to the person your pointing them at and your much more  > likely > >   to do damage to them with it than with a pistol.  > >  > >   9. tasers... not a lot of experience with these but hey it  > should work > >   if you know how to use them. maybe a heavy duty cattle prod :)  > stuck > >   through a port hole. > >  > >   10. the knowledge that weapons are not dangerous.. There are   only  > >   dangerous people. A gun or any other weapon is going to sit  > where you > >   last laid it and watch you get killed. It will not go off on   its   > own > >   to protect you. A person coming at you with a weapon or intent  > to harm > >   you is a dangerous person. In that they have the will, intent   and  > >   probably the ability to hurt you unless you have taken  > precautions. > >  > >   11. A pre thought out and practiced responce plan to different  > types > >   of threats.  > >   11a You should know and have practiced with your crew what to   do   > when > >   boarded at night in a populated harbor by someone with a knife   or  > >   (someones) with knifes. Stay locked up in your steel vault :)  > sound > >   alarm set off strobe spray with mace etc.. not lethal is  > addequet. > >  > >   11b. What you do when boarded by someone with a saturday night  > special > >   pistol (cheap low caliber pistol that most likely wont   penitrate   > your > >   steel hull.) do 11a and then posibly use bang stick or flare   gun   > if > >   they start shooting. maybe pre-empt them and shoot first..  > >  > >   11c what to do when boarded by persons with military weapons.  > unless > >   your a serious bad ass with training just surrender and pray.  > Bad ass > >   is probably going to get hurt anyways unless he is able to  > overwhelm > >   them very quickly. > >  > >   11d What to do when being closed on by a boat with no military > >   weapons.. you have a multi ton steel boat.. it is a weapon in  > its own > >   right you can ram. fire shot gun in air over their heads.. make  > sure > >   your not standing in open as they might have guns they haven't  > shown  > >   yet. but try to scare them away. if none of that works buck   shot   > into > >   the people and try to blow holes in water line. > >  > >   11e Being pursued by a boat with a 50 caliber rifle mounted... > >   surender!! They can shoot you from as far as they can see you  > and it > >   will make holes the size of dinner plates going into and out   the   > other > >   side of  your steel boat. > >  > >   my point is that you need to think about and have a plan that  > everyone > >   on your boat knows for different situations and you should  > practice > >   them just like you do or should do man overboard drills. you   can   > have > >   all the deterents on board i have listed above and if you aren't > >   comfortable using them the bad guys will glady take them away  > from you > >   and then use them on you and their next victim. > >  > >   All this applies to living in your house much less on a boat.   If   > you > >   have self defense devices in your house to protect your family  > you > >   need to practice with them and also have your family trained to > >   respond to break in situations. > >  > >   scott > >  > >  > >  > >  > >   To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > >   To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats- > unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com  > >  > >  > >  > > ------------------------------------------------------------------  -  > ----------- > >   YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS  > >  > >     a..  Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web. > >        > >     b..  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > >      origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > >        > >     c..  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms  > of Service.  > >  > >  > > ------------------------------------------------------------------  -  > ----------- > >  > >  > >  > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
9008|8765|2005-10-04 17:29:37|brentswain38|Re: Savonious power|With the coffee grinders on the America's cup boats they said that  every 90 degree turn cost 10% in power loss. Brent   --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Jerry Scovel <stcfarms@n...>  wrote:  > Since it will use a truck differential to go from vertical to   horizontal  > rotation I could leave the brake drums on. >  > on 10/4/05 3:49 AM, sae140 at colinpowell@f... wrote: >  > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "edward_stoneuk"   <tedstone@g...>  > wrote: > > Colin, > > I hadn't heard of Savonious rotors for years until Jerry Scovel > wrote  > > about them.  The last I heard, about 20 odd years ago, was that > they  > > were difficult to control and keep safe in high winds.  Does > anybody  > > make commercial ones suitable for boat battery charging? > > Regards, > > Ted >  > Hi Ted > the only designs I've seen are on the various DIY windgenerator > sites.  As a kid I remember seeing portable rotating shop signs > out on the pavement that used to whizz around like good 'uns - > no problems with self-starting there - but then they didn't have > any kind of load.   > Wouldn't surprise me if the EU haven't outlawed those type of > signs as being "dangerous to passing ankles" (groan ...) >  >  > > I believe that you can control the speed by increasing the > load.  >  > Hi Jerry > That's absolutely true - but within limits.  By gradually > increasing the load (including power dumps) the speed can > gradually be reduced - indeed the ultimate electronic brake > would be to completely short the output (i.e. infinite load). > In light winds that would work ok, but under gale conditions > if the rotor should begin to turn, then a very large current > would appear in the windings of the generator and in the > wiring down to the control panel.  If Murphy is on the crew > list, then damage (even a fire) might result. > If really bad winds are forecast, then some kind of physical > brake (tying-off or similar) is still the safest bet. >  > On one of the DIY generator sites I spotted a brilliantly > simple device for regulating a conventional prop generator > - nothing more than the generator head being hinged to the > support pole and kept in place by a spring.  When the wind- > speed force exceeds the spring tension, the head simply tilts > backwards and slows accordingly. When the wind pressure drops, > it regains it's original attitude. Self-regulatory, and self- > attending. Neat.  But nothing similar for Savonious rotors, > afaik.  >  > Colin >  >  >  >  >  > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com >  >  >  > SPONSORED LINKS  >        British columbia canada > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?  t=ms&k=British+columbia+canada&w1=British+colu  >   mbia+canada&w2=Vancouver+island&w3=Yacht&c=3&s=62&.sig=Q4lYYtlNW0FQO44 ezC2G3  > Q> Vancouver island > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?  t=ms&k=Vancouver+island&w1=British+columbia+ca  >   nada&w2=Vancouver+island&w3=Yacht&c=3&s=62&.sig=TVvK0pZk9dkmygRA0hegNw  > > Yacht  > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?  t=ms&k=Yacht&w1=British+columbia+canada&w2=Van  > couver+island&w3=Yacht&c=3&s=62&.sig=lCcJSZ2V25esT9G6EcjB6g> >  >  >  > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS >  >  Visit your group "origamiboats   <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats>  > " on the web.  >   >  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >  origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?  subject=Unsubscribe>  >   >  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> . >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
9009|8945|2005-10-04 17:35:58|brentswain38|Re: Bank Sticks and other means of self defense|If you fill a clear plastic bottle with hydrogen and oxygen( Made by  runing electricity thru seawater) and hang it on a backstay with a  fine wire in it hooked up to an extension cord, leading inside, you  have an effective pirate repellant. If anyone comes aboard in the  night, just touch the inboard ends of the wires to your battery. The  resulting ear shattering explosion , if it's high enough ,won't do  any dammage, but will instantly convince any pirate that it's not a  good idea to stick around. You  may have to wash a bit of brown stuff  off the decks in the morning, but you are unlikely to have to deal  with any legal consquences ,and you may have conviced a wayward soul  that his current livelyhood is a bit too dangerous.  Brent   --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "jericoera" <jericoera@y...>  wrote:  > I agree with the shotgun as the best all around weapon and a knife.  > The shotgun can be used to fire flares, and numerous other rounds  > each designed with specific purposes.   >  > A Navy Seal in Vietnam devised a shortened shotgun barrel in which  > he affixed a metal duck bill shaped end. It had the effect of  > creating a dense horizontal plane of pellets. >  > This had two effects. One it makes target aquistion rapid and   allows   > for instinctive shooting. Number two, albeit morbid, it will cut a  > man in half.   >  > From this improvised weapon which by the way would be (illegal  > within Canada)this marine fired flechet rounds, nasty little  > serrated pellets propelled by a standard shotgun shell. >  > They also have a shell on the market now called dragon's breath. It  > will shoot a wall of fire a good range and burn anything to a crisp  > within its reach.   >  > Too bad for the bad guy if he is in a fiberglass or wood boat. >  > A knife is the most dangerous weapon of all at arms length as it   can   > attack from any angle and not only puncture but lacerate. This  > induces rapid shock to the body which incapictates any assailant  > immediately. >  > I do not condone violence nor endorse the use of weapons against  > people, but sometimes extrordinary circumstances require  > extraordinary measures and there are places in our own countries   and   > elsewhere where life is cheap. >  > I'd always rather be alive to face my accusers than buried. >  > All and all, you still have a better chance of being in a car  > accident or having a heart attack than being attacked by pirates.   We   > often invite our own bad luck. If you know a place is prone to such  > things, why go. That's the only good thing TV is for-seeing places  > that only foolish people would travel to. >  > Carl McIntosh >  >  > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Michael Casling <casling@s...>  > wrote: > > This is the kind of conversation that takes place between males  > that live in countries that do not play rugby. > > It is unfortunate, but that is the way things are. > >  > > Michael > >   ----- Original Message -----  > >   From: audeojude  > >   To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com  > >   Sent: Tuesday, October 04, 2005 7:37 AM > >   Subject: [origamiboats] Bank Sticks and other means of self  > defense > >  > >  > >    > http://www.freediver.net/freedivelist/faqstuff/faq_bangsticks.html > >  > >   http://bluewaterhunter.com/shopsite_sc/store/html/ > >   shop_bangsticks_biller.html > >  > >   this is very cool link in that they talk about actuall use  > underwater > >   of variuse caliber bang sticks  > >  > >   http://yarchive.net/gun/ammo/underwater_shooting.html > >  > >   I actually had this conversation a couple days ago at the after  > race > >   cookout for the local sailing club. A few of us brainstormed   many  > >   cruel and unusual things to do to poor unsuspecting bad guys   that  > >   intend to hurt you and your boat while you are out cruising and > >   subject to different nations customs officers and laws.  > >  > >   :) several of us were ex-military with training in   unconventional  > >   explosives, booby traps and weapons, it was a creative  > conversation to > >   say the least :) > >  > >  > >   If it is pirates with automatic weapons though these would just  > piss > >   them off so that they will shoot you and your steel boat full   of   > holes > >   like a pieces of swiss cheese. I want to make a point I have   not   > heard > >   anyone make explicitly. Military rifles shooting at a steel   boat   > such > >   as brents will open it up like a can oppener. the steel is just  > too > >   thin to stop a rile round moving in excess of 3000 ft per  > second. It > >   might delect it if it hits at an angle but at any reasonable  > range > >   shooting straight at the sides of the boat or cabin these  > bullets will > >   go right through the metal and out the other side.. or maybe  > ricochet > >   around inside the boat.  > >  > >   I won't go into most of the bad guys die in gruesome ways ideas  > we > >   came up with. But we came up with several easy to moderatly  > difficult > >   ways to deter most people trying to break into your boat or   harm   > you. > >  > >  > >   1. simply being able to secure the boat so entry is difficult  > with out > >   major tools such as a torch or metal cutting saw. brents boats  > are > >   ideal for this passive defense that will work well in most  > populated > >   anchorages where your risk is covert breaking and entering. The > >   assailants will not wish to have the whole harbor knowing they  > are > >   robbing you at gun or knife point. > >  > >   2. A very powerfull strobe light and alarm that can be triggered > >   manually or by motion detection when you are not there. You can  > get > >   strobes that will temporarly blind someone if they are looking  > at it > >   when it goes off. this is very effective :) also if you are  > looking at > >   fighting the militarily armed pirates on the high seas this   will   > help > >   if aimed at them under the right circumstances as its hard to > >   acurately shoot as someone when you can't see. Also sound is a > >   impresive weapon all on its own. It call attention to your boat. > >   People breaking the law dont like attention drawn to them. Also  > past a > >   certain level sound can physically damage someone. inside your  > foamed > >   steel hull you should be protected from most of the sound at  > levels > >   that will physicaly hurt a person on the deck or beside the   boat.  > >  > >   3. Mace.... its nasty and semi effective. this is for those  > people > >   that have already gained your decks and are close enough to hit  > with > >   it. However someone that has had training or is hopped up on  > drugs can > >   continue to funtion with a face full of mace even though it is > >   seriously hurting them.. especially if they have warning that   it   > is > >   going to be used on them. > >  > >   4. a little more difficult but that could affect the intire area > >   around your boat or down wind if much of a breeze is blowing is   a  > >   system that allows you to pump smoke out over the decks of the  > boat > >   and out the sides from burning capsesian (distilled hot   peppers)   > If > >   you have ever burn't your dinner you were making with really hot > >   peppers or hot sause and remember how difficult it was to   breath   > in > >   the vicinity till you aired out the kitchen will get the idea   for  > >   this.  I will leave it up to you to figure out the details for  > this :) > >  > >   5. another more work idea... get a large pump that runs off your > >   engine and powers a deck mounted water  cannon.. at a couple  > hundered > >   psi you should be able to generate a stream of water that will  > knock a > >   man off his feet more than 150 ft away.. not to mention that   you   > can > >   put out boat fires for your neighboors and have a monster bilge  > pump > >   with the turn of a valve. :) you should be able to make or buy   a   > used > >   one from a fire department etc.. > >  > >   6. Bank sticks... everyone has already talked about these. > >  > >   7. flare gun.. they are legal on boats everywhere.. actually  > they are > >   required most places :).. being hit with a burning flare is  > nasty..bad > >   bad..... you   can also purchase flare guns made to accept and  > be safe > >   firing 12 ad 20 gauge shot gun shells. > >  > >   8. shotgun.... for a fire arm they are much more accepted   around   > the > >   world than pistols or rifles.. they can fire buckshot and slugs  > that > >   will open major holes in boats. if your goal is self defense in   a  > >   limited arena a shot gun is the only firearm that makes sense.  > forget > >   about how cool you look with a pistol. shot guns are much   scarier  > >   looking to the person your pointing them at and your much more  > likely > >   to do damage to them with it than with a pistol.  > >  > >   9. tasers... not a lot of experience with these but hey it  > should work > >   if you know how to use them. maybe a heavy duty cattle prod :)  > stuck > >   through a port hole. > >  > >   10. the knowledge that weapons are not dangerous.. There are   only  > >   dangerous people. A gun or any other weapon is going to sit  > where you > >   last laid it and watch you get killed. It will not go off on   its   > own > >   to protect you. A person coming at you with a weapon or intent  > to harm > >   you is a dangerous person. In that they have the will, intent   and  > >   probably the ability to hurt you unless you have taken  > precautions. > >  > >   11. A pre thought out and practiced responce plan to different  > types > >   of threats.  > >   11a You should know and have practiced with your crew what to   do   > when > >   boarded at night in a populated harbor by someone with a knife   or  > >   (someones) with knifes. Stay locked up in your steel vault :)  > sound > >   alarm set off strobe spray with mace etc.. not lethal is  > addequet. > >  > >   11b. What you do when boarded by someone with a saturday night  > special > >   pistol (cheap low caliber pistol that most likely wont   penitrate   > your > >   steel hull.) do 11a and then posibly use bang stick or flare   gun   > if > >   they start shooting. maybe pre-empt them and shoot first..  > >  > >   11c what to do when boarded by persons with military weapons.  > unless > >   your a serious bad ass with training just surrender and pray.  > Bad ass > >   is probably going to get hurt anyways unless he is able to  > overwhelm > >   them very quickly. > >  > >   11d What to do when being closed on by a boat with no military > >   weapons.. you have a multi ton steel boat.. it is a weapon in  > its own > >   right you can ram. fire shot gun in air over their heads.. make  > sure > >   your not standing in open as they might have guns they haven't  > shown  > >   yet. but try to scare them away. if none of that works buck   shot   > into > >   the people and try to blow holes in water line. > >  > >   11e Being pursued by a boat with a 50 caliber rifle mounted... > >   surender!! They can shoot you from as far as they can see you  > and it > >   will make holes the size of dinner plates going into and out   the   > other > >   side of  your steel boat. > >  > >   my point is that you need to think about and have a plan that  > everyone > >   on your boat knows for different situations and you should  > practice > >   them just like you do or should do man overboard drills. you   can   > have > >   all the deterents on board i have listed above and if you aren't > >   comfortable using them the bad guys will glady take them away  > from you > >   and then use them on you and their next victim. > >  > >   All this applies to living in your house much less on a boat.   If   > you > >   have self defense devices in your house to protect your family  > you > >   need to practice with them and also have your family trained to > >   respond to break in situations. > >  > >   scott > >  > >  > >  > >  > >   To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > >   To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats- > unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com  > >  > >  > >  > > ------------------------------------------------------------------  -  > ----------- > >   YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS  > >  > >     a..  Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web. > >        > >     b..  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > >      origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > >        > >     c..  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms  > of Service.  > >  > >  > > ------------------------------------------------------------------  -  > ----------- > >  > >  > >  > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
9010|8980|2005-10-04 17:38:42|brentswain38|Re: It's Happening!!!!!!!|Gord  How far along are you? Brent    --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, gschnell <gschnell@s...> wrote: > Right on, Shane. Gonna miss you here in Vancouver. Another reason  to get > this thing finsihed and in the water. > Gord >  >  > SHANE ROTHWELL wrote: >  > >  Hey guys, > > > > Sold the house last night! > > > > Moving to the Island & have to look after boring > > necessities like a house etc first but am now in the > > market for a 36'-40' Swain. > > > > Part of me says buy plate get going. Part of me says > > buy an existing hull & finnish it off. Either way > > guys, I'm looking. > > > > Will be looking at all options on houses & boats from > > Ladysmith to Courtenay. > > > > Other than Alex, who else is building or has a > > finnished 36-40' Brentboat that would be amenable to > > me dropping in to have a look-see on the east coast of > > the island? > > > > Bye the bye, also found a deal on moving boats. The > > bloke is based in the lower mainland, but they are on > > the island coupla times a week. claims he can move > > boats cheaper on the island than the locals who charge > > heaps. it's Bear Crane, blokes name is Bear > > 604-250-5777. > > > > Cheers, > > Shane > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________________ > > Find your next car at http://autos.yahoo.ca > > > > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ ----- > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > > >    +  Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web. > > > >    +  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > >       origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > >    +  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > >      Service. > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ ----- > > >  >  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
9011|9011|2005-10-04 17:44:31|kingsknight4life|Brent check your e-mail please NM||
9012|8765|2005-10-04 17:46:35|Jerry Scovel|Re: Savonious power|Since the object is to prevent overspeed damage that is a good thing.   on 10/4/05 4:27 PM, brentswain38 at brentswain38@... wrote:  With the coffee grinders on the America's cup boats they said that every 90 degree turn cost 10% in power loss. Brent   --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Jerry Scovel <stcfarms@n...> wrote:  > Since it will use a truck differential to go from vertical to  horizontal  > rotation I could leave the brake drums on. >  > on 10/4/05 3:49 AM, sae140 at colinpowell@f... wrote: >  > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "edward_stoneuk"  <tedstone@g...>  > wrote: > > Colin, > > I hadn't heard of Savonious rotors for years until Jerry Scovel > wrote  > > about them.  The last I heard, about 20 odd years ago, was that > they  > > were difficult to control and keep safe in high winds.  Does > anybody  > > make commercial ones suitable for boat battery charging? > > Regards, > > Ted >  > Hi Ted > the only designs I've seen are on the various DIY windgenerator > sites.  As a kid I remember seeing portable rotating shop signs > out on the pavement that used to whizz around like good 'uns - > no problems with self-starting there - but then they didn't have > any kind of load. > Wouldn't surprise me if the EU haven't outlawed those type of > signs as being "dangerous to passing ankles" (groan ...) >  >  > > I believe that you can control the speed by increasing the > load.  >  > Hi Jerry > That's absolutely true - but within limits.  By gradually > increasing the load (including power dumps) the speed can > gradually be reduced - indeed the ultimate electronic brake > would be to completely short the output (i.e. infinite load). > In light winds that would work ok, but under gale conditions > if the rotor should begin to turn, then a very large current > would appear in the windings of the generator and in the > wiring down to the control panel.  If Murphy is on the crew > list, then damage (even a fire) might result. > If really bad winds are forecast, then some kind of physical > brake (tying-off or similar) is still the safest bet. >  > On one of the DIY generator sites I spotted a brilliantly > simple device for regulating a conventional prop generator > - nothing more than the generator head being hinged to the > support pole and kept in place by a spring.  When the wind- > speed force exceeds the spring tension, the head simply tilts > backwards and slows accordingly. When the wind pressure drops, > it regains it's original attitude. Self-regulatory, and self- > attending. Neat.  But nothing similar for Savonious rotors, > afaik.  >  > Colin >  >  >  >  >  > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com >  >  >  > SPONSORED LINKS  >        British columbia canada > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?  t=ms&k=British+columbia+canada&w1=British+colu  >   mbia+canada&w2=Vancouver+island&w3=Yacht&c=3&s=62&.sig=Q4lYYtlNW0FQO44 ezC2G3  > Q> Vancouver island > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?  t=ms&k=Vancouver+island&w1=British+columbia+ca  >   nada&w2=Vancouver+island&w3=Yacht&c=3&s=62&.sig=TVvK0pZk9dkmygRA0hegNw  > > Yacht  > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?  t=ms&k=Yacht&w1=British+columbia+canada&w2=Van  > couver+island&w3=Yacht&c=3&s=62&.sig=lCcJSZ2V25esT9G6EcjB6g> >  >  >  > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS >  >  Visit your group "origamiboats  <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats>  > " on the web.  >   >  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >  origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?  subject=Unsubscribe>  >   >  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> . >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]      To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com      YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS   Visit your group "origamiboats <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats> " on the web.     To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:  origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <mailto:origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>    Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]|
9013|9013|2005-10-04 18:05:33|Puck III|Advanced Tactical Weaponry for the Sailor !!!|I just found an interesting Link in Links : http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/sailor570/pwchelp.htm hehehe , some fine pics in there . where will it all end ??  Old Ben :-)|
9014|9014|2005-10-04 18:23:21|Puck III|War and peace .|To young men contemplating a voyage I would say go. The tales of rough  usage are for the most part exaggerations, as also are the tales of sea  danger. To face the elements is, to be sure, no light matter when the  sea is in it grandest mood. You must then know the sea, and know that  you know it, and not forget that it was made to be sailed over.  Joshua Slocum  "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that  you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines.  Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails.  Explore. Dream. Discover."  Mark Twain|
9015|8765|2005-10-04 18:43:46|Michael Casling|Re: Savonious power|Same problem with the BMW type motorcycles. The crank is going the wrong way for the back wheel, so there is a horsepower loss.  Michael    ----- Original Message -----    From: brentswain38    To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com    Sent: Tuesday, October 04, 2005 2:27 PM   Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Savonious power     With the coffee grinders on the America's cup boats they said that    every 90 degree turn cost 10% in power loss.   Brent     [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
9016|8945|2005-10-04 19:12:37|Jerry Scovel|Re: Hatches and door ideas|I do not know about an elephant but it will stop a black bear, or go clean through a bad guy wearing a bulletproof vest.  on 10/3/05 6:43 PM, seeratlas at seeratlas@... wrote:  Damn jerry 125# will do an elephant, easy LOL. I shake like a 15 year old on his first date trying to pull 101. seer   --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Jerry Scovel <stcfarms@n...> wrote: > I am content to use a 125# bow, deer arrows and a 15" bowie knife, they are > legal nearly everywhere very effective. >  >  > on 10/3/05 3:26 PM, edward_stoneuk at tedstone@g... wrote: >  > Jerry, > I used the cases as an example, perhaps not very good ones of how one > can be brave and armed but still not prevail. >  > The following web site will give more details of piracy and you can > google for others. > http://www.imo.org/Newsroom/contents.asp?topic_id=67&doc_id=1060 >  > I agree with much of what Seer says, but personally have not > considered carrying arms.  This may well reflect the fact that hand > guns are illegal in the UK although I used to own a licenced 12 bore > shotgun.  I have heard of doubtfull characters made peacable by the > giving of a carton of Marlboro and some cans of soft drink.  Each > situation is different and our reaction different.  The world is > becoming a much more desparate place though. >  > Although I have not heard of one before I am fairly sure that a bang > stick would be regarded as an offensive weapon and therefore be > illegal in the UK. >  > Regards, > Ted  >  >  >  >  >  >  > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com >  >  >  >  >  > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS >  >  Visit your group "origamiboats <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats> > " on the web.  >   >  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >  origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe> >   >  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> . >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]     To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com       YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS   Visit your group "origamiboats <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats> " on the web.     To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:  origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <mailto:origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>    Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .           [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
9017|9017|2005-10-04 19:42:40|Puck III|Norco Origami in Aluminum|Origami in totaly different sectors :-) a usefull tool for 460 dollars : http://www.jvbike.com/bikes/Origami.htm  Old Ben|
9018|9017|2005-10-04 19:46:36|Alex Christie|Re: Norco Origami in Aluminum|That would make the ultimate official Origamiboats bicycle!  Alex   On 4-Oct-05, at 4:42 PM, Puck III wrote:  > Origami in totaly different sectors :-) >  a usefull tool for 460 dollars : > http://www.jvbike.com/bikes/Origami.htm > >  Old Ben >   [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
9019|9013|2005-10-04 20:14:33|Wesley Cox|Re: Advanced Tactical Weaponry for the Sailor !!!|Right on!  I thought about something similar for a motorcycle when  younger.  :=)  Puck III wrote:   >I just found an interesting Link in Links : >http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/sailor570/pwchelp.htm >hehehe , some fine pics in there . >where will it all end ?? > >Old Ben :-) > > > > > >To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com >To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com  >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > >  > > > >   > |
9020|8945|2005-10-04 23:18:13|Robert Mitchell|Re: Hatches and door ideas|Dear Sugar  Other ideas?  There is a company that sells an electric fence for your yacht.  Great for anchorages apparently.  Gives the bad guys a good shock if they try to climb aboard.  http://www.secure-marine.com/yacht/index.shtml   Rob|
9021|8945|2005-10-04 23:58:37|Jerry Scovel|Re: Hatches and door ideas|That may be the best idea yet.  on 10/4/05 10:18 PM, Robert Mitchell at Robert.Mitchell4@... wrote:  Dear Sugar  Other ideas?  There is a company that sells an electric fence for your yacht.  Great for anchorages apparently.  Gives the bad guys a good shock if they try to climb aboard.  http://www.secure-marine.com/yacht/index.shtml  Rob     To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com      YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS   Visit your group "origamiboats <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats> " on the web.     To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:  origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <mailto:origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>    Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]|
9022|8765|2005-10-05 04:12:16|sae140|Re: Savonious power|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Jerry Scovel <stcfarms@n...>  wrote:  > Since it will use a truck differential to go from vertical to   horizontal  > rotation I could leave the brake drums on. >    That should do the job ok.  Will you be making a working model  first, or go straight to the build ?  Colin|
9023|8945|2005-10-05 04:40:11|sae140|Re: Hatches and door ideas|In the aggression stakes I would have thought that a couple  of hundred feet of flame from a few pints of a petrol/paraffin (gasoline/kerosine) mix and a SCUBA dive bottle would be an awesome sight ....  But I wonder if being completely passive isn't a wiser  approach ?  Actually help 'em on board - show 'em around -  that'll phase 'em (!)  You won't be sailing a mega-rich  yacht, so there won't be rich pickings to be had.   Ok - so maybe that approach is not so good for the macho  ego, but it might just keep you alive.  Colin|
9024|8945|2005-10-05 04:54:16|sae140|Re: Bank Sticks and other means of self defense|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "brentswain38"  <brentswain38@h...> wrote:  > If you fill a clear plastic bottle with hydrogen and oxygen( Made   by   > runing electricity thru seawater) and hang it on a backstay with a  > fine wire in it hooked up to an extension cord, leading inside, you  > have an effective pirate repellant.     Along similar lines, but easier to make ?:  I live out in the country, and for intruder alarms some folk  use a commercially-made kind-of mouse-trap affair - nothing  more than a metal frame holding a 12 bore cartridge (without  the shot - at least in theory ...) inside a steel tube.   The frame has a spring-loaded firing pin, which has a trip- wire attached. I think these were originally designed for use  against foxes. In the dead of night, these are loud enough  to give you a heart-attack.  Colin|
9025|8765|2005-10-05 06:21:02|jim dorey|Re: Savonious power|On Sat, 01 Oct 2005 18:35:10 -0300, Jerry Scovel <stcfarms@...>   wrote:   > The flettner is an interesting design, it looks as if it might work as a > savonious generator when it is not being used for propulsion. It could   > even > produce its own hydrogen fuel. Nice, thanks.   http://www.rexresearch.com/boats/1boat.htm#lesh was off my head, probably   tired, gave wrong name, lesh, flettner needs power to spin it before it   can pull a boat along, lesh will spin on its own, sorry.  --  Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/|
9026|8945|2005-10-05 06:22:52|Alex Christie|avoiding piracy|Advice I have heard is to above all avoid known areas of piracy, travel  with other boats in convoy, travel in rough weather if possible (small  shorebased boats don't like bad seas but your offshore boat will lap it  up) and keep your ear to the ham radio for information.  The question of whether to be pre-emptive and strike first, or go  passive is a big one.  As Brent mentioned, not everyone in a mask is a  robber (the fishermen who were wearing hoods against the sun).  On the  other hand, some piracy happened in Venezuela, according to the site I  post next here, by uniformed members of the Venezuelan coast guard!  Its a difficult question.  Great website here with info and advice: Yacht Piracy   http://www.yachtpiracy.org/en/index.htm  Alex|
9027|8765|2005-10-05 06:30:31|jim dorey|Re: Savonious power|On Mon, 03 Oct 2005 07:23:22 -0300, sae140 <colinpowell@...> wrote:   > Hi Ted > > It's now become standard practice not to disconnect the power > to the batteries when they're fully charged, but to electrically > re-direct the power supply to a 'current dump' (my words), which > is nothing more that a bank of low value, high power resistors. > They then continue to act as a load and will soak up the energy > and safely dump it as heat. > That's not something I'd want to see happening continuously, > but certainly useful during the night when getting a tether on > the rotor might be dangerous in poor light conditions. > > BTW, I'd heard that some Savonious rotor designs are not > self-starting, and are unsuitable for unattended use. > > Colin   princess auto has resistors on sale, 1ohm, 300watt, buck ninety-nine,   #0720384.  they got pretty decent sales, last time i went i got a set of 3   aviation snips for 8bucks, and they're rather good quality.  --  Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/|
9028|8765|2005-10-05 08:48:59|Jerry Scovel|Re: Savonious power|I am building a full size model to give me an accurate measure of the forces involved and the energy production. I hope that it will get me off the grid to free up money for boat construction.   on 10/5/05 3:11 AM, sae140 at colinpowell@... wrote:  --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Jerry Scovel <stcfarms@n...> wrote:  > Since it will use a truck differential to go from vertical to  horizontal  > rotation I could leave the brake drums on. >    That should do the job ok.  Will you be making a working model first, or go straight to the build ?  Colin      To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com    SPONSORED LINKS         British columbia canada <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=British+columbia+canada&w1=British+colu mbia+canada&w2=Vancouver+island&w3=Yacht&c=3&s=62&.sig=Q4lYYtlNW0FQO44ezC2G3 Q> Vancouver island <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Vancouver+island&w1=British+columbia+ca nada&w2=Vancouver+island&w3=Yacht&c=3&s=62&.sig=TVvK0pZk9dkmygRA0hegNw> Yacht  <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Yacht&w1=British+columbia+canada&w2=Van couver+island&w3=Yacht&c=3&s=62&.sig=lCcJSZ2V25esT9G6EcjB6g>   YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS   Visit your group "origamiboats <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats> " on the web.     To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:  origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <mailto:origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>    Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .         [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]|
9029|8945|2005-10-05 09:19:34|audeojude|Re: Bank Sticks and other means of self defense|It would be nice if people all over the world behaved in a civilized manner such as people that live in countries that play rugby. However there are people all over the world that don't play by nice rules like in rugby.  scott   --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Michael Casling <casling@s...> wrote: > This is the kind of conversation that takes place between males that live in countries that do not play rugby. > It is unfortunate, but that is the way things are. > |
9030|8765|2005-10-05 09:31:33|Jerry Scovel|Re: Savonious power|Your suggestions are very useful, hopefully they will help me design a hybrid drive that anyone can build and operate.   on 10/5/05 5:21 AM, jim dorey at skaar@... wrote:   > On Sat, 01 Oct 2005 18:35:10 -0300, Jerry Scovel <stcfarms@...> > wrote: >  >> The flettner is an interesting design, it looks as if it might work as a >> savonious generator when it is not being used for propulsion. It could >> even >> produce its own hydrogen fuel. Nice, thanks. >  > http://www.rexresearch.com/boats/1boat.htm#lesh was off my head, probably > tired, gave wrong name, lesh, flettner needs power to spin it before it > can pull a boat along, lesh will spin on its own, sorry. |
9031|8945|2005-10-05 09:39:03|audeojude|Re: Bank Sticks and other means of self defense|thats a quick and dirty way to get the same effect of some of the more exotic rounds out there. Same principle behind the ammo they issue to flight marshals.. pellets suspended in soft round.. won't penetrate cabin but major mess when it hits a person... this would be souped up on steriods version of that. lol don't point souped up version at aircraft side as i doulbt it would be as gentle as issue pistol rounds flight marshalls use :)  scott --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "brentswain38" <brentswain38@h...> wrote:  > I once read about campers who were worried about a maurauding bear.  > All they had was a shotgun with #8 shot.I since read about an old  > hillbilly trick that would work in that situation. They take a 12  > guage shotshell and cut the plastic case at the aft end of the shot  > most of the way thru, leaving 1/4 inch of case intact on each  > side.Then when you shoot, the plastic housing the shot stays intact  > ant travells with the shot , holding it together until impact. Then  > it's like a grenade going off inside the bear.Probably better than  > the alternatives in bear country.It'll stop him quicker than anything  > else. > Brent >  > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "jericoera" <jericoera@y...>  > wrote: > > I agree with the shotgun as the best all around weapon and a knife.  > > The shotgun can be used to fire flares, and numerous other rounds  > > each designed with specific purposes.   > >  > > A Navy Seal in Vietnam devised a shortened shotgun barrel in which  > > he affixed a metal duck bill shaped end. It had the effect of  > > creating a dense horizontal plane of pellets. > >  > > This had two effects. One it makes target aquistion rapid and  > allows  > > for instinctive shooting. Number two, albeit morbid, it will cut a  > > man in half.   > >  > > From this improvised weapon which by the way would be (illegal  > > within Canada)this marine fired flechet rounds, nasty little  > > serrated pellets propelled by a standard shotgun shell. > >  > > They also have a shell on the market now called dragon's breath. It  > > will shoot a wall of fire a good range and burn anything to a crisp  > > within its reach.   > >  > > Too bad for the bad guy if he is in a fiberglass or wood boat. > >  > > A knife is the most dangerous weapon of all at arms length as it  > can  > > attack from any angle and not only puncture but lacerate. This  > > induces rapid shock to the body which incapictates any assailant  > > immediately. > >  > > I do not condone violence nor endorse the use of weapons against  > > people, but sometimes extrordinary circumstances require  > > extraordinary measures and there are places in our own countries  > and  > > elsewhere where life is cheap. > >  > > I'd always rather be alive to face my accusers than buried. > >  > > All and all, you still have a better chance of being in a car  > > accident or having a heart attack than being attacked by pirates.  > We  > > often invite our own bad luck. If you know a place is prone to such  > > things, why go. That's the only good thing TV is for-seeing places  > > that only foolish people would travel to. > >  > > Carl McIntosh > >  > >  > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Michael Casling <casling@s...>  > > wrote: > > > This is the kind of conversation that takes place between males  > > that live in countries that do not play rugby. > > > It is unfortunate, but that is the way things are. > > >  > > > Michael > > >   ----- Original Message -----  > > >   From: audeojude  > > >   To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com  > > >   Sent: Tuesday, October 04, 2005 7:37 AM > > >   Subject: [origamiboats] Bank Sticks and other means of self  > > defense > > >  > > >  > > >    > > http://www.freediver.net/freedivelist/faqstuff/faq_bangsticks.html > > >  > > >   http://bluewaterhunter.com/shopsite_sc/store/html/ > > >   shop_bangsticks_biller.html > > >  > > >   this is very cool link in that they talk about actuall use  > > underwater > > >   of variuse caliber bang sticks  > > >  > > >   http://yarchive.net/gun/ammo/underwater_shooting.html > > >  > > >   I actually had this conversation a couple days ago at the after  > > race > > >   cookout for the local sailing club. A few of us brainstormed  > many > > >   cruel and unusual things to do to poor unsuspecting bad guys  > that > > >   intend to hurt you and your boat while you are out cruising and > > >   subject to different nations customs officers and laws.  > > >  > > >   :) several of us were ex-military with training in  > unconventional > > >   explosives, booby traps and weapons, it was a creative  > > conversation to > > >   say the least :) > > >  > > >  > > >   If it is pirates with automatic weapons though these would just  > > piss > > >   them off so that they will shoot you and your steel boat full  > of  > > holes > > >   like a pieces of swiss cheese. I want to make a point I have  > not  > > heard > > >   anyone make explicitly. Military rifles shooting at a steel  > boat  > > such > > >   as brents will open it up like a can oppener. the steel is just  > > too > > >   thin to stop a rile round moving in excess of 3000 ft per  > > second. It > > >   might delect it if it hits at an angle but at any reasonable  > > range > > >   shooting straight at the sides of the boat or cabin these  > > bullets will > > >   go right through the metal and out the other side.. or maybe  > > ricochet > > >   around inside the boat.  > > >  > > >   I won't go into most of the bad guys die in gruesome ways ideas  > > we > > >   came up with. But we came up with several easy to moderatly  > > difficult > > >   ways to deter most people trying to break into your boat or  > harm  > > you. > > >  > > >  > > >   1. simply being able to secure the boat so entry is difficult  > > with out > > >   major tools such as a torch or metal cutting saw. brents boats  > > are > > >   ideal for this passive defense that will work well in most  > > populated > > >   anchorages where your risk is covert breaking and entering. The > > >   assailants will not wish to have the whole harbor knowing they  > > are > > >   robbing you at gun or knife point. > > >  > > >   2. A very powerfull strobe light and alarm that can be triggered > > >   manually or by motion detection when you are not there. You can  > > get > > >   strobes that will temporarly blind someone if they are looking  > > at it > > >   when it goes off. this is very effective :) also if you are  > > looking at > > >   fighting the militarily armed pirates on the high seas this  > will  > > help > > >   if aimed at them under the right circumstances as its hard to > > >   acurately shoot as someone when you can't see. Also sound is a > > >   impresive weapon all on its own. It call attention to your boat. > > >   People breaking the law dont like attention drawn to them. Also  > > past a > > >   certain level sound can physically damage someone. inside your  > > foamed > > >   steel hull you should be protected from most of the sound at  > > levels > > >   that will physicaly hurt a person on the deck or beside the  > boat. > > >  > > >   3. Mace.... its nasty and semi effective. this is for those  > > people > > >   that have already gained your decks and are close enough to hit  > > with > > >   it. However someone that has had training or is hopped up on  > > drugs can > > >   continue to funtion with a face full of mace even though it is > > >   seriously hurting them.. especially if they have warning that  > it  > > is > > >   going to be used on them. > > >  > > >   4. a little more difficult but that could affect the intire area > > >   around your boat or down wind if much of a breeze is blowing is  > a > > >   system that allows you to pump smoke out over the decks of the  > > boat > > >   and out the sides from burning capsesian (distilled hot  > peppers)  > > If > > >   you have ever burn't your dinner you were making with really hot > > >   peppers or hot sause and remember how difficult it was to  > breath  > > in > > >   the vicinity till you aired out the kitchen will get the idea  > for > > >   this.  I will leave it up to you to figure out the details for  > > this :) > > >  > > >   5. another more work idea... get a large pump that runs off your > > >   engine and powers a deck mounted water  cannon.. at a couple  > > hundered > > >   psi you should be able to generate a stream of water that will  > > knock a > > >   man off his feet more than 150 ft away.. not to mention that  > you  > > can > > >   put out boat fires for your neighboors and have a monster bilge  > > pump > > >   with the turn of a valve. :) you should be able to make or buy  > a  > > used > > >   one from a fire department etc.. > > >  > > >   6. Bank sticks... everyone has already talked about these. > > >  > > >   7. flare gun.. they are legal on boats everywhere.. actually  > > they are > > >   required most places :).. being hit with a burning flare is  > > nasty..bad > > >   bad..... you   can also purchase flare guns made to accept and  > > be safe > > >   firing 12 ad 20 gauge shot gun shells. > > >  > > >   8. shotgun.... for a fire arm they are much more accepted  > around  > > the > > >   world than pistols or rifles.. they can fire buckshot and slugs  > > that > > >   will open major holes in boats. if your goal is self defense in  > a > > >   limited arena a shot gun is the only firearm that makes sense.  > > forget > > >   about how cool you look with a pistol. shot guns are much  > scarier > > >   looking to the person your pointing them at and your much more  > > likely > > >   to do damage to them with it than with a pistol.  > > >  > > >   9. tasers... not a lot of experience with these but hey it  > > should work > > >   if you know how to use them. maybe a heavy duty cattle prod :)  > > stuck > > >   through a port hole. > > >  > > >   10. the knowledge that weapons are not dangerous.. There are  > only > > >   dangerous people. A gun or any other weapon is going to sit  > > where you > > >   last laid it and watch you get killed. It will not go off on  > its  > > own > > >   to protect you. A person coming at you with a weapon or intent  > > to harm > > >   you is a dangerous person. In that they have the will, intent  > and > > >   probably the ability to hurt you unless you have taken  > > precautions. > > >  > > >   11. A pre thought out and practiced responce plan to different  > > types > > >   of threats.  > > >   11a You should know and have practiced with your crew what to  > do  > > when > > >   boarded at night in a populated harbor by someone with a knife  > or > > >   (someones) with knifes. Stay locked up in your steel vault :)  > > sound > > >   alarm set off strobe spray with mace etc.. not lethal is  > > addequet. > > >  > > >   11b. What you do when boarded by someone with a saturday night  > > special > > >   pistol (cheap low caliber pistol that most likely wont  > penitrate  > > your > > >   steel hull.) do 11a and then posibly use bang stick or flare  > gun  > > if > > >   they start shooting. maybe pre-empt them and shoot first..  > > >  > > >   11c what to do when boarded by persons with military weapons.  > > unless > > >   your a serious bad ass with training just surrender and pray.  > > Bad ass > > >   is probably going to get hurt anyways unless he is able to  > > overwhelm > > >   them very quickly. > > >  > > >   11d What to do when being closed on by a boat with no military > > >   weapons.. you have a multi ton steel boat.. it is a weapon in  > > its own > > >   right you can ram. fire shot gun in air over their heads.. make  > > sure > > >   your not standing in open as they might have guns they haven't  > > shown  > > >   yet. but try to scare them away. if none of that works buck  > shot  > > into > > >   the people and try to blow holes in water line. > > >  > > >   11e Being pursued by a boat with a 50 caliber rifle mounted... > > >   surender!! They can shoot you from as far as they can see you  > > and it > > >   will make holes the size of dinner plates going into and out  > the  > > other > > >   side of  your steel boat. > > >  > > >   my point is that you need to think about and have a plan that  > > everyone > > >   on your boat knows for different situations and you should  > > practice > > >   them just like you do or should do man overboard drills. you  > can  > > have > > >   all the deterents on board i have listed above and if you aren't > > >   comfortable using them the bad guys will glady take them away  > > from you > > >   and then use them on you and their next victim. > > >  > > >   All this applies to living in your house much less on a boat.  > If  > > you > > >   have self defense devices in your house to protect your family  > > you > > >   need to practice with them and also have your family trained to > > >   respond to break in situations. > > >  > > >   scott > > >  > > >  > > >  > > >  > > >   To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > >   To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats- > > unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com  > > >  > > >  > > >  > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > - > > ----------- > > >   YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS  > > >  > > >     a..  Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web. > > >        > > >     b..  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > >      origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > >        > > >     c..  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms  > > of Service.  > > >  > > >  > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > - > > ----------- > > >  > > >  > > >  > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
9032|8945|2005-10-05 09:40:23|audeojude|Re: Hatches and door ideas|I would warn you to check the specific laws in your locality about carrying and using an edged weapon. Im many places in the US it is a misdemeaner offence to get caught carrying a pistol yet a felony offence to get caught with a knife over 4 inches long. This varys from state to state and county to county. Also it has been a few years since I got this information so with the current anti gun attitude the laws for guns are probably stiffer now also.  If you want a low key legal self defense weapon just get a stout walking cane and drill out a 1/4 inch 8 inch long hole in bottom and pour in some lead to give it authority when hitting :)  then go find someone to teach you to use it and practice with it.   scott   -- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Jerry Scovel <stcfarms@n...> wrote:  >  >  >  > on 10/4/05 6:45 AM, Sugar at seeratlasangel@y... wrote: >  > Hi all, I'm getting in on this post a little late and I haven't read > past this post so I may be getting ahead of myself.  I do want to add > one thing about your post Ted.  I understand that armed reponses don't > always work.  I'm a girl.  And on all the shows regarding women, being > caught off guard, attacked, etc. the experts always tell us to fight > back, get away and run.  Well on the sea I can't call for a police > officer, and I don't see where I could get away and run so that just > leaves me with fighting back.  I will always have a loaded gun and if > necessary, I will fight back.  The shows show that quite often they > plan on harming or killing women.  I figure on the seas we're all > lumped into the same group.  And the potential for being hurt is > pretty high when it comes to pirates.  In regards to the hatch, I'd > want to be able to crawl out of the hatch incase there was an > emergency down below.  I have a question about your burglar alarm.  I > can see that the alarm would help let you know if someone was entering > onto your boat.  I would guess it makes a loud sound as a deterent to > hopefully make them run.  But if you were out on the ocean and the > alarm went off, and someone was boarding your ship, what would you do? > I'm not trying to be a smart a_ _ .  I'm serious in asking.  Now what > do we do?  I'm interested in having any and all options on board.  I > like the idea of the mace you mentioned and where it was located. Any > and all things like that might help.  But some people aren't really > affected by mace.  I know.  My brother was a cop for 24 years.  So we > have the alarm, the mace, what else can you use to protect yourself > and make them leave?  Anyone else have any ideas? > Sugar >  >  >  >  >  > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "edward_stoneuk" <tedstone@g...> > wrote: > > Seer, > > Its not just you, I whould imagine that all of us would rather be > > alive than dead.  My example of Sir Peter Blake shows that armed > > response does not always work. History tells us that the armed > > conflict in Vietnam, and Somalia did not work either for the foreign > > nation, who was also the better armed.  The jail at Guantamano Bay > > shows how folks react to foreigners who may be responsible for killing > > their countrymen and women.  In case you think I am having a swipe at > > the US, British history and the present is littered with similar > > examples.  Neither death nor incarceration appeals so one looks for > > ways in terms of hatches and doors that avoid both.  I have a battery > > operated PIR burglar alarm that worked quite well for a couple of > > years before giving up the ghost.  They are good but can be irritating > > if you forget to turn them off. > > Regards, > > Ted >  >  >  >  > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com >  >  >  > SPONSORED LINKS  >        British columbia canada >  <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=British+columbia+canada&w1=British+colu  >  mbia+canada&w2=Vancouver+island&w3=Yacht&c=3&s=62&.sig=Q4lYYtlNW0FQO44ezC2G3  > Q> Vancouver island >  <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Vancouver+island&w1=British+columbia+ca  > nada&w2=Vancouver+island&w3=Yacht&c=3&s=62&.sig=TVvK0pZk9dkmygRA0hegNw> > Yacht  >  <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Yacht&w1=British+columbia+canada&w2=Van  > couver+island&w3=Yacht&c=3&s=62&.sig=lCcJSZ2V25esT9G6EcjB6g> >  >  >  > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS >  >  Visit your group "origamiboats  <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats>  > " on the web.  >   >  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >  origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe> >   >  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> . >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
9033|8945|2005-10-05 09:43:38|audeojude|Re: Bank Sticks and other means of self defense|Nice  Flash Bang device.  acetelene in a ballon will make a very loud and forcefull bang also :)  --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "brentswain38" <brentswain38@h...> wrote:  > If you fill a clear plastic bottle with hydrogen and oxygen( Made by  > runing electricity thru seawater) and hang it on a backstay with a  > fine wire in it hooked up to an extension cord, leading inside, you  > have an effective pirate repellant. If anyone comes aboard in the  > night, just touch the inboard ends of the wires to your battery. The  > resulting ear shattering explosion , if it's high enough ,won't do  > any dammage, but will instantly convince any pirate that it's not a  > good idea to stick around. You  may have to wash a bit of brown stuff  > off the decks in the morning, but you are unlikely to have to deal  > with any legal consquences ,and you may have conviced a wayward soul  > that his current livelyhood is a bit too dangerous.  > Brent >  >  > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "jericoera" <jericoera@y...>  > wrote: > > I agree with the shotgun as the best all around weapon and a knife.  > > The shotgun can be used to fire flares, and numerous other rounds  > > each designed with specific purposes.   > >  > > A Navy Seal in Vietnam devised a shortened shotgun barrel in which  > > he affixed a metal duck bill shaped end. It had the effect of  > > creating a dense horizontal plane of pellets. > >  > > This had two effects. One it makes target aquistion rapid and  > allows  > > for instinctive shooting. Number two, albeit morbid, it will cut a  > > man in half.   > >  > > From this improvised weapon which by the way would be (illegal  > > within Canada)this marine fired flechet rounds, nasty little  > > serrated pellets propelled by a standard shotgun shell. > >  > > They also have a shell on the market now called dragon's breath. It  > > will shoot a wall of fire a good range and burn anything to a crisp  > > within its reach.   > >  > > Too bad for the bad guy if he is in a fiberglass or wood boat. > >  > > A knife is the most dangerous weapon of all at arms length as it  > can  > > attack from any angle and not only puncture but lacerate. This  > > induces rapid shock to the body which incapictates any assailant  > > immediately. > >  > > I do not condone violence nor endorse the use of weapons against  > > people, but sometimes extrordinary circumstances require  > > extraordinary measures and there are places in our own countries  > and  > > elsewhere where life is cheap. > >  > > I'd always rather be alive to face my accusers than buried. > >  > > All and all, you still have a better chance of being in a car  > > accident or having a heart attack than being attacked by pirates.  > We  > > often invite our own bad luck. If you know a place is prone to such  > > things, why go. That's the only good thing TV is for-seeing places  > > that only foolish people would travel to. > >  > > Carl McIntosh > >  > >  > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Michael Casling <casling@s...>  > > wrote: > > > This is the kind of conversation that takes place between males  > > that live in countries that do not play rugby. > > > It is unfortunate, but that is the way things are. > > >  > > > Michael > > >   ----- Original Message -----  > > >   From: audeojude  > > >   To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com  > > >   Sent: Tuesday, October 04, 2005 7:37 AM > > >   Subject: [origamiboats] Bank Sticks and other means of self  > > defense > > >  > > >  > > >    > > http://www.freediver.net/freedivelist/faqstuff/faq_bangsticks.html > > >  > > >   http://bluewaterhunter.com/shopsite_sc/store/html/ > > >   shop_bangsticks_biller.html > > >  > > >   this is very cool link in that they talk about actuall use  > > underwater > > >   of variuse caliber bang sticks  > > >  > > >   http://yarchive.net/gun/ammo/underwater_shooting.html > > >  > > >   I actually had this conversation a couple days ago at the after  > > race > > >   cookout for the local sailing club. A few of us brainstormed  > many > > >   cruel and unusual things to do to poor unsuspecting bad guys  > that > > >   intend to hurt you and your boat while you are out cruising and > > >   subject to different nations customs officers and laws.  > > >  > > >   :) several of us were ex-military with training in  > unconventional > > >   explosives, booby traps and weapons, it was a creative  > > conversation to > > >   say the least :) > > >  > > >  > > >   If it is pirates with automatic weapons though these would just  > > piss > > >   them off so that they will shoot you and your steel boat full  > of  > > holes > > >   like a pieces of swiss cheese. I want to make a point I have  > not  > > heard > > >   anyone make explicitly. Military rifles shooting at a steel  > boat  > > such > > >   as brents will open it up like a can oppener. the steel is just  > > too > > >   thin to stop a rile round moving in excess of 3000 ft per  > > second. It > > >   might delect it if it hits at an angle but at any reasonable  > > range > > >   shooting straight at the sides of the boat or cabin these  > > bullets will > > >   go right through the metal and out the other side.. or maybe  > > ricochet > > >   around inside the boat.  > > >  > > >   I won't go into most of the bad guys die in gruesome ways ideas  > > we > > >   came up with. But we came up with several easy to moderatly  > > difficult > > >   ways to deter most people trying to break into your boat or  > harm  > > you. > > >  > > >  > > >   1. simply being able to secure the boat so entry is difficult  > > with out > > >   major tools such as a torch or metal cutting saw. brents boats  > > are > > >   ideal for this passive defense that will work well in most  > > populated > > >   anchorages where your risk is covert breaking and entering. The > > >   assailants will not wish to have the whole harbor knowing they  > > are > > >   robbing you at gun or knife point. > > >  > > >   2. A very powerfull strobe light and alarm that can be triggered > > >   manually or by motion detection when you are not there. You can  > > get > > >   strobes that will temporarly blind someone if they are looking  > > at it > > >   when it goes off. this is very effective :) also if you are  > > looking at > > >   fighting the militarily armed pirates on the high seas this  > will  > > help > > >   if aimed at them under the right circumstances as its hard to > > >   acurately shoot as someone when you can't see. Also sound is a > > >   impresive weapon all on its own. It call attention to your boat. > > >   People breaking the law dont like attention drawn to them. Also  > > past a > > >   certain level sound can physically damage someone. inside your  > > foamed > > >   steel hull you should be protected from most of the sound at  > > levels > > >   that will physicaly hurt a person on the deck or beside the  > boat. > > >  > > >   3. Mace.... its nasty and semi effective. this is for those  > > people > > >   that have already gained your decks and are close enough to hit  > > with > > >   it. However someone that has had training or is hopped up on  > > drugs can > > >   continue to funtion with a face full of mace even though it is > > >   seriously hurting them.. especially if they have warning that  > it  > > is > > >   going to be used on them. > > >  > > >   4. a little more difficult but that could affect the intire area > > >   around your boat or down wind if much of a breeze is blowing is  > a > > >   system that allows you to pump smoke out over the decks of the  > > boat > > >   and out the sides from burning capsesian (distilled hot  > peppers)  > > If > > >   you have ever burn't your dinner you were making with really hot > > >   peppers or hot sause and remember how difficult it was to  > breath  > > in > > >   the vicinity till you aired out the kitchen will get the idea  > for > > >   this.  I will leave it up to you to figure out the details for  > > this :) > > >  > > >   5. another more work idea... get a large pump that runs off your > > >   engine and powers a deck mounted water  cannon.. at a couple  > > hundered > > >   psi you should be able to generate a stream of water that will  > > knock a > > >   man off his feet more than 150 ft away.. not to mention that  > you  > > can > > >   put out boat fires for your neighboors and have a monster bilge  > > pump > > >   with the turn of a valve. :) you should be able to make or buy  > a  > > used > > >   one from a fire department etc.. > > >  > > >   6. Bank sticks... everyone has already talked about these. > > >  > > >   7. flare gun.. they are legal on boats everywhere.. actually  > > they are > > >   required most places :).. being hit with a burning flare is  > > nasty..bad > > >   bad..... you   can also purchase flare guns made to accept and  > > be safe > > >   firing 12 ad 20 gauge shot gun shells. > > >  > > >   8. shotgun.... for a fire arm they are much more accepted  > around  > > the > > >   world than pistols or rifles.. they can fire buckshot and slugs  > > that > > >   will open major holes in boats. if your goal is self defense in  > a > > >   limited arena a shot gun is the only firearm that makes sense.  > > forget > > >   about how cool you look with a pistol. shot guns are much  > scarier > > >   looking to the person your pointing them at and your much more  > > likely > > >   to do damage to them with it than with a pistol.  > > >  > > >   9. tasers... not a lot of experience with these but hey it  > > should work > > >   if you know how to use them. maybe a heavy duty cattle prod :)  > > stuck > > >   through a port hole. > > >  > > >   10. the knowledge that weapons are not dangerous.. There are  > only > > >   dangerous people. A gun or any other weapon is going to sit  > > where you > > >   last laid it and watch you get killed. It will not go off on  > its  > > own > > >   to protect you. A person coming at you with a weapon or intent  > > to harm > > >   you is a dangerous person. In that they have the will, intent  > and > > >   probably the ability to hurt you unless you have taken  > > precautions. > > >  > > >   11. A pre thought out and practiced responce plan to different  > > types > > >   of threats.  > > >   11a You should know and have practiced with your crew what to  > do  > > when > > >   boarded at night in a populated harbor by someone with a knife  > or > > >   (someones) with knifes. Stay locked up in your steel vault :)  > > sound > > >   alarm set off strobe spray with mace etc.. not lethal is  > > addequet. > > >  > > >   11b. What you do when boarded by someone with a saturday night  > > special > > >   pistol (cheap low caliber pistol that most likely wont  > penitrate  > > your > > >   steel hull.) do 11a and then posibly use bang stick or flare  > gun  > > if > > >   they start shooting. maybe pre-empt them and shoot first..  > > >  > > >   11c what to do when boarded by persons with military weapons.  > > unless > > >   your a serious bad ass with training just surrender and pray.  > > Bad ass > > >   is probably going to get hurt anyways unless he is able to  > > overwhelm > > >   them very quickly. > > >  > > >   11d What to do when being closed on by a boat with no military > > >   weapons.. you have a multi ton steel boat.. it is a weapon in  > > its own > > >   right you can ram. fire shot gun in air over their heads.. make  > > sure > > >   your not standing in open as they might have guns they haven't  > > shown  > > >   yet. but try to scare them away. if none of that works buck  > shot  > > into > > >   the people and try to blow holes in water line. > > >  > > >   11e Being pursued by a boat with a 50 caliber rifle mounted... > > >   surender!! They can shoot you from as far as they can see you  > > and it > > >   will make holes the size of dinner plates going into and out  > the  > > other > > >   side of  your steel boat. > > >  > > >   my point is that you need to think about and have a plan that  > > everyone > > >   on your boat knows for different situations and you should  > > practice > > >   them just like you do or should do man overboard drills. you  > can  > > have > > >   all the deterents on board i have listed above and if you aren't > > >   comfortable using them the bad guys will glady take them away  > > from you > > >   and then use them on you and their next victim. > > >  > > >   All this applies to living in your house much less on a boat.  > If  > > you > > >   have self defense devices in your house to protect your family  > > you > > >   need to practice with them and also have your family trained to > > >   respond to break in situations. > > >  > > >   scott > > >  > > >  > > >  > > >  > > >   To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > >   To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats- > > unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com  > > >  > > >  > > >  > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > - > > ----------- > > >   YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS  > > >  > > >     a..  Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web. > > >        > > >     b..  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > >      origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > >        > > >     c..  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms  > > of Service.  > > >  > > >  > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > - > > ----------- > > >  > > >  > > >  > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
9034|9014|2005-10-05 09:59:11|audeojude|Re: War and peace .|Actually to anyone of any age go!! There are bad people out there but if you avoid known bad areas you will probably never have to deal with more than petty thieves. or maybe a mugging if your real unlucky. its good to be prepared but don't let the bad stuff out there stop you when percentage wise your more likely to be killed by a doctor than a pirate :)   I am prepared to deal with bad situations but in the 16 years since i got out of the military I have not been in a fight or a confrontation with anyone. I avoid people and places that I know to be violent and I make sure that that I project a confident its better not to mess with me attitude that makes me seem not worth the trouble to the average bully and thug. When you see someone that looks like they are going to accost you in a bad way you either vacate the area or if unable to do that you close with them and confidently ask them their name and a question and shake their hand while introducing yourself. This moves you from a faceless target to someone that they know that is asking them for help. It also shows confidence and will most times put them off stride. Also its very hard for most people that are helping someon e to make the jump back to mugging you or accosting your for some reason.  Now after having said this.. be warned ... this is a very situational technique and you have to make constant judgement calls on what tact your going to use to make individuals see you not as a target but as a fellow person. You need good people skills to pull this off and the ablity to smile at someone and really be interested in them and make them smile back at you.  This will work 99 % of the time.. the other 1% your just screwed unless you are prepared to defend yourself physically. Some people are just down right bad and nothing you can do or say is going to stop them from seeing you as a victim and acting on that.  I have lived all over both here in the US and in other countrys.. some of them quite poor. If you keep a good attitude and treat people like you like to be treated (in a friendly and non condesending manner). They will quickly become friends. Many of them would steal you blind as the faceless rich yachty but once you become a real person to them they will go out of their way to be friendly and help you.   scott   -- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III" <ben_azo@h...> wrote:  >  >  To young men contemplating a voyage I would say go. The tales of rough  > usage are for the most part exaggerations, as also are the tales of sea  > danger. To face the elements is, to be sure, no light matter when the  > sea is in it grandest mood. You must then know the sea, and know that  > you know it, and not forget that it was made to be sailed over. >  > Joshua Slocum >  > "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that  > you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines.  > Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails.  > Explore. Dream. Discover." >  > Mark Twain |
9035|8945|2005-10-05 10:09:38|audeojude|Re: Hatches and door ideas|Under some situations passive is all you can do other than die. But untill it escalates to that level or they show such overwhelming advantige that you know its a lost cause I would not want to give up the ability to defend myself or more importantly my family. Once they have you they can do anything they want to you or your wife or mom or significant other or children. Things are not worth much in the way of defense  compared to the lives of those we love. I wouln't sacrifice my life for a boat or computer or a bank full of money. For my family though I would.  This whole thread is just touching on a very complex issue. There are a thousand different ways someone could act the aggressor torward you. and there are 10000 different ways to respond to that aggression. Starting with passive just take what you want at one end to you shoot them dead at the other end. It takes a lot of life experience and training to make optimum choices through that entire range of responces as well as cool head and leaving the macho bullshit behind. The goal should always be to use the minimum level of force in any given situation to defuse the situation while preserving your lives and if possible your property.  scott        --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "sae140" <colinpowell@f...> wrote: > In the aggression stakes I would have thought that a couple  > of hundred feet of flame from a few pints of a petrol/paraffin > (gasoline/kerosine) mix and a SCUBA dive bottle would be an > awesome sight .... >  > But I wonder if being completely passive isn't a wiser  > approach ?  Actually help 'em on board - show 'em around -  > that'll phase 'em (!)  You won't be sailing a mega-rich  > yacht, so there won't be rich pickings to be had.   > Ok - so maybe that approach is not so good for the macho  > ego, but it might just keep you alive. >  > Colin |
9036|8945|2005-10-05 10:10:15|audeojude|Re: Hatches and door ideas|That is a good idea as long as it does't ground through your boat. :) electrolysis is a bitch. :) scott -- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Jerry Scovel <stcfarms@n...> wrote:  >  That may be the best idea yet. >  > on 10/4/05 10:18 PM, Robert Mitchell at Robert.Mitchell4@s... wrote: >  > Dear Sugar >  > Other ideas? >  > There is a company that sells an electric fence for your yacht.  Great > for anchorages apparently.  Gives the bad guys a good shock if they try > to climb aboard.  http://www.secure-marine.com/yacht/index.shtml >  > Rob >  >  >  >  > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com >  >  >  >  >  > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS >  >  Visit your group "origamiboats  <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats>  > " on the web.  >   >  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >  origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe> >   >  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> . >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
9037|8945|2005-10-05 10:55:29|Jerry Scovel|Re: Hatches and door ideas|On the farm we used a 2 wire system rather than grounding to earth, more bang for your buck.   on 10/5/05 9:09 AM, audeojude at audeojude@... wrote:  That is a good idea as long as it does't ground through your boat. :) electrolysis is a bitch. :) scott -- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Jerry Scovel <stcfarms@n...> wrote:  >  That may be the best idea yet. >  > on 10/4/05 10:18 PM, Robert Mitchell at Robert.Mitchell4@s... wrote: >  > Dear Sugar >  > Other ideas? >  > There is a company that sells an electric fence for your yacht.  Great > for anchorages apparently.  Gives the bad guys a good shock if they try > to climb aboard.  http://www.secure-marine.com/yacht/index.shtml >  > Rob >  >  >  >  > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com >  >  >  >  >  > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS >  >  Visit your group "origamiboats  <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats>  > " on the web.  >   >  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >  origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe> >   >  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> . >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]      To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com      YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS   Visit your group "origamiboats <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats> " on the web.     To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:  origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <mailto:origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>    Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]|
9038|8945|2005-10-05 11:55:18|Michael Casling|Re: Bank Sticks and other means of self defense|Well said. The great problem we seem to be faced with these days is to try and live our lives in a civilized manner, yet having to deal with others who do not. The internet can be similar to a confrontation with baddies in that the intent of the other person is not clearly known. It is easy to ramp up the rhetoric or tension. A small miscommunication and bullets may start flying. Peter Blake of course is still dead and will be that way for a long time. I would rather try and soften the situation as I believe that is a more logical way of doing things. At least until the others intentions are clear. Is this petty theft or something serious. If it is petty theft why try and make it serious. Some of the more recent posts are suggesting the same. Of course when the baddies approach from a distance with guns firing before they have even met you, then obviously there is a problem that needs to be dealt with. Flack jackets and frying pans were good ideas. It is most unlikely that we can outgun the baddies in these situations.  I agree with everyone, it is a difficult issue, but lets not forget that we all have brains and we should try and use them for peaceful objectives.  Michael, X rugby player, now a sailor.     ----- Original Message -----    From: audeojude    To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com    Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2005 6:18 AM   Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Bank Sticks and other means of self defense     It would be nice if people all over the world behaved in a civilized   manner such as people that live in countries that play rugby. However   there are people all over the world that don't play by nice rules like   in rugby.    scott    --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Michael Casling <casling@s...> wrote:   > This is the kind of conversation that takes place between males that   live in countries that do not play rugby.   > It is unfortunate, but that is the way things are.   >        To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com   To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com     ------------------------------------------------------------------------------   YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS       a..  Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web.            b..  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:      origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com            c..  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
9039|9014|2005-10-05 12:01:32|Michael Casling|Re: War and peace .|Agreed. If you leave your guns at home I think you will make more friends.  Michael    ----- Original Message -----    From: audeojude    To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com    Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2005 6:55 AM   Subject: [origamiboats] Re: War and peace .     I have lived all over both here in the US and in other countrys.. some   of them quite poor. If you keep a good attitude and treat people like   you like to be treated (in a friendly and non condesending manner).   They will quickly become friends. Many of them would steal you blind   as the faceless rich yachty but once you become a real person to them   they will go out of their way to be friendly and help you.     scott     [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
9040|8945|2005-10-05 12:12:54|Michael Casling|Re: Hatches and door ideas|As well it happens between countries.  The Congo wanted to extract itself from Belgium, and India wanted to extract itself from England. All the head cheese guys in the Congo were shot. Ghandi had a movie made about him.  I am going to do my best to try and avoid places that are unlawful. That unfortunately may include some large US cities.I will not sail to South East Asia. Mind you I have not sailed anywhere yet, so this is just thinking and planning out loud.  Michael    ----- Original Message -----    From: audeojude    To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com    Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2005 7:05 AM   Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Hatches and door ideas     This whole thread is just touching on a very complex issue. There are   a thousand different ways someone could act the aggressor torward you.   and there are 10000 different ways to respond to that aggression.   Starting with passive just take what you want at one end to you shoot   them dead at the other end. It takes a lot of life experience and   training to make optimum choices through that entire range of   responces as well as cool head and leaving the macho bullshit behind.   The goal should always be to use the minimum level of force in any   given situation to defuse the situation while preserving your lives   and if possible your property.    scott        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
9041|9041|2005-10-05 15:30:00|jericoera|Speaking of pirates!!|I was just quoted $35 for 5 feet of 1/2 inch ss rod I need-that sounds  a bit like piracy to me!  Lets have some wishful thinking and hope for the market to be flooded  with cheap steel.  I am seriously going to look at having a load shipped up from Chile.  I bought a copper sink for $80US from Chile that they wanted $900US  for on the internet out of the USA.  My sink is hand made, twice as thick, asthetically much more pleasing and I can get more soon as I find the guy's address in my mess of an  office.  Anyone wanting copper products, look to Chile. Great country, easy to  deal with people and from the time I drew the concept of what I wanted  until the time the sink was in my hands  only 3 weeks.  Chile is one place I want to see. The y also have a huge range of bio  diversity if you like looking at exotic palm trees and other fauna.  Cheers  Carl M|
9042|9042|2005-10-05 15:43:57|edward_stoneuk|Dry Exhaust Flexibility|I will soon be fitting a dry exhaust pipe.  Given the heat expansion  of the pipe and the vibration of the engine some kind of flexible  connection is desirable.  I intend to use a short stainless steel  bellows connector, which I have been given.  What are the views on  connecting the exhaust to avoid it cracking in use? Regards, Ted|
9043|8765|2005-10-05 16:07:56|Denis Buggy|Re: Savonious power|dear jerry check out a finnish co who have years of experience and have many hugh grade projects in all parts of the world including antarticia however they are very expensive but the site is good and very  helpful   , no noise no bird strikes no need for a gearbox no need for overspeed weights . regards    ----- Original Message -----    From: Jerry Scovel    To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com    Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2005 2:31 PM   Subject: Re: [origamiboats] Re: Savonious power      Your suggestions are very useful, hopefully they will help me design a   hybrid drive that anyone can build and operate.     on 10/5/05 5:21 AM, jim dorey at skaar@... wrote:    > On Sat, 01 Oct 2005 18:35:10 -0300, Jerry Scovel <stcfarms@...>   > wrote:   >    >> The flettner is an interesting design, it looks as if it might work as a   >> savonious generator when it is not being used for propulsion. It could   >> even   >> produce its own hydrogen fuel. Nice, thanks.   >    > http://www.rexresearch.com/boats/1boat.htm#lesh was off my head, probably   > tired, gave wrong name, lesh, flettner needs power to spin it before it   > can pull a boat along, lesh will spin on its own, sorry.      To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com   To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com       SPONSORED LINKS British columbia canada  Vancouver island  Yacht     ------------------------------------------------------------------------------   YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS       a..  Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web.            b..  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:      origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com            c..  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
9044|8765|2005-10-05 16:10:02|Denis Buggy|Re: Savonious power|jerry i forgot the co name is windside.com . denis    ----- Original Message -----    From: Jerry Scovel    To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com    Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2005 2:31 PM   Subject: Re: [origamiboats] Re: Savonious power      Your suggestions are very useful, hopefully they will help me design a   hybrid drive that anyone can build and operate.     on 10/5/05 5:21 AM, jim dorey at skaar@... wrote:    > On Sat, 01 Oct 2005 18:35:10 -0300, Jerry Scovel <stcfarms@...>   > wrote:   >    >> The flettner is an interesting design, it looks as if it might work as a   >> savonious generator when it is not being used for propulsion. It could   >> even   >> produce its own hydrogen fuel. Nice, thanks.   >    > http://www.rexresearch.com/boats/1boat.htm#lesh was off my head, probably   > tired, gave wrong name, lesh, flettner needs power to spin it before it   > can pull a boat along, lesh will spin on its own, sorry.      To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com   To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com       SPONSORED LINKS British columbia canada  Vancouver island  Yacht     ------------------------------------------------------------------------------   YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS       a..  Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web.            b..  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:      origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com            c..  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
9045|9042|2005-10-05 16:19:45|racer577@citystar.com|Re: Dry Exhaust Flexibility|> I will soon be fitting a dry exhaust pipe.  Given the heat expansion > of the pipe and the vibration of the engine some kind of flexible > connection is desirable.  I intend to use a short stainless steel > bellows connector, which I have been given.  What are the views on > connecting the exhaust to avoid it cracking in use? > Regards, > Ted >   How about a flex connector from a front wheel drive car.  I know I have seen several cars with a flexible section of pipe to allow the engine to move without breaking the exhaust pipe.  You might even fine one in a salvage yard for cheap.  John|
9046|8945|2005-10-05 16:20:14|Denis Buggy|Re: Bank Sticks and other means of self defense|the irish captian of the lions picked grass and threw it to the wind  while that tribe called the all blacks did their hakka routine ( i will kill you and yours after i have eaten your children and grannies  with a dash of lime  routine ) his reward in front of 300millon viewers was a spear tackle designed to put you in a wheel chair , his collar bone and ribs are coming along fine ,  i guessyou missed  the game. denis      ----- Original Message -----    From: audeojude    To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com    Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2005 2:18 PM   Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Bank Sticks and other means of self defense     It would be nice if people all over the world behaved in a civilized   manner such as people that live in countries that play rugby. However   there are people all over the world that don't play by nice rules like   in rugby.    scott    --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Michael Casling <casling@s...> wrote:   > This is the kind of conversation that takes place between males that   live in countries that do not play rugby.   > It is unfortunate, but that is the way things are.   >        To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com   To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com     ------------------------------------------------------------------------------   YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS       a..  Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web.            b..  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:      origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com            c..  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
9047|8765|2005-10-05 17:01:36|jim_both|Re: Savonious power|Check out this turbine:  http://www.turby.nl/|
9048|8945|2005-10-05 17:52:06|Michael Casling|Re: Bank Sticks and other means of self defense|For those interested the words to the Haka are available after a quick search, with a bit of diligence the origin can be found. A fellow on the run from enemies who likely would kill him, hid in a cellar type place. "It is death it is death". The next day a guy with hairy legs oppened the lid of the pit. "It is life it is life. This is the hairy man who caused the sun to shine again for me, up the ladder, up the ladder, up to the top the sun shines".  Not that bad when you know the rest of the story. Of course the only link to sailing would be the Maori voyages and the NZ sailing.  Michael     ----- Original Message -----    From: Denis Buggy    To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com    Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2005 1:21 PM   Subject: Re: [origamiboats] Re: Bank Sticks and other means of self defense     the irish captian of the lions picked grass and threw it to the wind  while that tribe called the all blacks did their hakka routine ( i will kill you and yours after i have eaten your children and grannies  with a dash of lime  routine ) his reward in front of 300millon viewers was a spear tackle designed to put you in a wheel chair , his collar bone and ribs are coming along fine ,  i guessyou missed  the game. denis       ----- Original Message -----      From: audeojude      To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com      Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2005 2:18 PM     Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Bank Sticks and other means of self defense       It would be nice if people all over the world behaved in a civilized     manner such as people that live in countries that play rugby. However     there are people all over the world that don't play by nice rules like     in rugby.      scott      --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Michael Casling <casling@s...> wrote:     > This is the kind of conversation that takes place between males that     live in countries that do not play rugby.     > It is unfortunate, but that is the way things are.     >          To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com     To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com       ------------------------------------------------------------------------------     YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS         a..  Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web.                b..  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:        origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com                c..  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.      ------------------------------------------------------------------------------      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]      To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com   To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com       SPONSORED LINKS British columbia canada  Vancouver island  Yacht     ------------------------------------------------------------------------------   YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS       a..  Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web.            b..  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:      origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com            c..  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
9049|8765|2005-10-05 18:28:45|Jerry Scovel|Re: Savonious power|Ha Ha, you lost me at very expensive. I like to build my own equipment so I can fix it when I am thousands of miles from shore.   on 10/5/05 3:08 PM, Denis Buggy at buggy@... wrote:  dear jerry check out a finnish co who have years of experience and have many hugh grade projects in all parts of the world including antarticia however they are very expensive but the site is good and very  helpful   , no noise no bird strikes no need for a gearbox no need for overspeed weights . regards   ----- Original Message -----  From: Jerry Scovel  To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com  Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2005 2:31 PM  Subject: Re: [origamiboats] Re: Savonious power     Your suggestions are very useful, hopefully they will help me design a  hybrid drive that anyone can build and operate.    on 10/5/05 5:21 AM, jim dorey at skaar@... wrote:   > On Sat, 01 Oct 2005 18:35:10 -0300, Jerry Scovel <stcfarms@...>  > wrote:  >   >> The flettner is an interesting design, it looks as if it might work as a  >> savonious generator when it is not being used for propulsion. It could  >> even  >> produce its own hydrogen fuel. Nice, thanks.  >   > http://www.rexresearch.com/boats/1boat.htm#lesh was off my head, probably  > tired, gave wrong name, lesh, flettner needs power to spin it before it  > can pull a boat along, lesh will spin on its own, sorry.     To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com  To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com     SPONSORED LINKS British columbia canada  Vancouver island  Yacht   ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- --  YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS     a..  Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web.          b..  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:     origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com          c..  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.   ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- --    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]    To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com    SPONSORED LINKS         British columbia canada <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=British+columbia+canada&w1=British+colu mbia+canada&w2=Vancouver+island&w3=Yacht&c=3&s=62&.sig=Q4lYYtlNW0FQO44ezC2G3 Q> Vancouver island <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Vancouver+island&w1=British+columbia+ca nada&w2=Vancouver+island&w3=Yacht&c=3&s=62&.sig=TVvK0pZk9dkmygRA0hegNw> Yacht  <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Yacht&w1=British+columbia+canada&w2=Van couver+island&w3=Yacht&c=3&s=62&.sig=lCcJSZ2V25esT9G6EcjB6g>    YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS   Visit your group "origamiboats <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats> " on the web.     To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:  origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <mailto:origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>    Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
9050|8765|2005-10-05 18:36:48|Jerry Scovel|Re: Savonious power|I could not get it to load all the way, the internet hates extremely old macintosh computers...   on 10/5/05 4:00 PM, jim_both at stainless316@... wrote:  Check out this turbine:  http://www.turby.nl/     To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com    SPONSORED LINKS         British columbia canada <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=British+columbia+canada&w1=British+colu mbia+canada&w2=Vancouver+island&w3=Yacht&c=3&s=62&.sig=Q4lYYtlNW0FQO44ezC2G3 Q> Vancouver island <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Vancouver+island&w1=British+columbia+ca nada&w2=Vancouver+island&w3=Yacht&c=3&s=62&.sig=TVvK0pZk9dkmygRA0hegNw> Yacht  <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Yacht&w1=British+columbia+canada&w2=Van couver+island&w3=Yacht&c=3&s=62&.sig=lCcJSZ2V25esT9G6EcjB6g>    YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS   Visit your group "origamiboats <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats> " on the web.     To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:  origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <mailto:origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>    Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]|
9051|8765|2005-10-05 18:56:30|jim_both|Re: Savonious power|It's their website (poor tiling), not your old Mac.  Scroll down or  try:  http://www.turby.nl/downloads/Turby%20ENG.pdf    --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Jerry Scovel <stcfarms@n...>  wrote:  > I could not get it to load all the way, the internet hates extremely   old  > macintosh computers...  >  > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com >  >  >  > SPONSORED LINKS  >        British columbia canada > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?  t=ms&k=British+columbia+canada&w1=British+colu  > mbia+canada&w2=Vancouver+island&w3=Yacht&c=3&s=62&.  sig=Q4lYYtlNW0FQO44ezC2G3  > Q> Vancouver island > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?  t=ms&k=Vancouver+island&w1=British+columbia+ca  > nada&w2=Vancouver+island&w3=Yacht&c=3&s=62&.  sig=TVvK0pZk9dkmygRA0hegNw>  > Yacht  > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?  t=ms&k=Yacht&w1=British+columbia+canada&w2=Van  > couver+island&w3=Yacht&c=3&s=62&.sig=lCcJSZ2V25esT9G6EcjB6g> >  >  >  > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS >  >  Visit your group "origamiboats <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/  origamiboats>  > " on the web.  >   >  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >  origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?  subject=Unsubscribe>  >   >  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> . >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
9052|8765|2005-10-05 19:26:54|brentswain38|Re: Savonious power|I'm wondering if I can feesd an alternator field directly from my  battery and thus end up with an alternator for a wind generator that  kicks in at low rpm, just like my welder does. If it works it will  make an extremely cheap wind generator. Brent  --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Jerry Scovel <stcfarms@n...>  wrote:  > I could not get it to load all the way, the internet hates   extremely old  > macintosh computers... >  >  > on 10/5/05 4:00 PM, jim_both at stainless316@o... wrote: >  > Check out this turbine: >  > http://www.turby.nl/ >  >  >  >  > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com >  >  >  > SPONSORED LINKS  >        British columbia canada > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?  t=ms&k=British+columbia+canada&w1=British+colu  >   mbia+canada&w2=Vancouver+island&w3=Yacht&c=3&s=62&.sig=Q4lYYtlNW0FQO4 4ezC2G3  > Q> Vancouver island > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?  t=ms&k=Vancouver+island&w1=British+columbia+ca  >   nada&w2=Vancouver+island&w3=Yacht&c=3&s=62&.sig=TVvK0pZk9dkmygRA0hegN w>  > Yacht  > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?  t=ms&k=Yacht&w1=British+columbia+canada&w2=Van  > couver+island&w3=Yacht&c=3&s=62&.sig=lCcJSZ2V25esT9G6EcjB6g> >  >  >  > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS >  >  Visit your group "origamiboats   <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats>  > " on the web.  >   >  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >  origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?  subject=Unsubscribe>  >   >  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of   Service  > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> . >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
9053|8945|2005-10-05 19:28:03|brentswain38|Re: avoiding piracy|For the vast majority of people , inactivity ,smoking and obesity  are light years more likely to kill them than all the pirates they  could ever encounter in a lifetime. It makes me wonder how many  overweight , grease eateing chainsmokers out on the cruising grounds  worry about pirates , while poisoning themselves daily. McDonalds  represents the most dangerous and deadly pirates they will ever  encounter . Brent  --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Alex Christie <achristie@s...>  wrote:  > Advice I have heard is to above all avoid known areas of piracy,   travel   > with other boats in convoy, travel in rough weather if possible   (small   > shorebased boats don't like bad seas but your offshore boat will   lap it   > up) and keep your ear to the ham radio for information. >  > The question of whether to be pre-emptive and strike first, or go  > passive is a big one.  As Brent mentioned, not everyone in a mask   is a   > robber (the fishermen who were wearing hoods against the sun).  On   the   > other hand, some piracy happened in Venezuela, according to the   site I   > post next here, by uniformed members of the Venezuelan coast guard! >  > Its a difficult question. >  > Great website here with info and advice: Yacht Piracy   > http://www.yachtpiracy.org/en/index.htm >  > Alex |
9054|9054|2005-10-05 19:32:33|kingsknight4life|Cost of Zinga??|Hi all anyone out there know what this stuf is running/gal. inBC or elsewhere? Thanks Rowland|
9055|8765|2005-10-05 20:08:12|Jerry Scovel|Re: Savonious power|Thank you. I intend on building a half a dozen different styles to see which is best.  I will certainly build this one.   on 10/5/05 5:55 PM, jim_both at stainless316@... wrote:  It's their website (poor tiling), not your old Mac.  Scroll down or try:  http://www.turby.nl/downloads/Turby%20ENG.pdf    --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Jerry Scovel <stcfarms@n...> wrote:  > I could not get it to load all the way, the internet hates extremely  old  > macintosh computers...  >  > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com >  >  >  > SPONSORED LINKS  >        British columbia canada > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?  t=ms&k=British+columbia+canada&w1=British+colu  > mbia+canada&w2=Vancouver+island&w3=Yacht&c=3&s=62&.  sig=Q4lYYtlNW0FQO44ezC2G3  > Q> Vancouver island > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?  t=ms&k=Vancouver+island&w1=British+columbia+ca  > nada&w2=Vancouver+island&w3=Yacht&c=3&s=62&.  sig=TVvK0pZk9dkmygRA0hegNw>  > Yacht  > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?  t=ms&k=Yacht&w1=British+columbia+canada&w2=Van  > couver+island&w3=Yacht&c=3&s=62&.sig=lCcJSZ2V25esT9G6EcjB6g> >  >  >  > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS >  >  Visit your group "origamiboats <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/  origamiboats>  > " on the web.  >   >  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >  origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?  subject=Unsubscribe>  >   >  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> . >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]      To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com      YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS   Visit your group "origamiboats <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats> " on the web.     To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:  origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <mailto:origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>    Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]|
9056|9054|2005-10-05 20:46:03|tom|Re: Cost of Zinga??|I talked to a distributor in the US last week and he quoted $175.00 a gallon  in 2-1/2 gallon bucket Tom  ----- Original Message -----  From: "kingsknight4life" <wildcatbjj@...> To: <origamiboats@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2005 4:24 PM Subject: [origamiboats] Cost of Zinga??   > Hi all > anyone out there know what this stuf is running/gal. inBC or elsewhere? > Thanks Rowland > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:  > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > |
9057|9054|2005-10-05 21:24:09|paulcotter@acsalaska.net|Re: Cost of Zinga??|Last I checked it was US$150 in Vancouver  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]|
9058|8945|2005-10-05 21:27:42|audeojude|Re: Bank Sticks and other means of self defense|well said also :) scott  --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Michael Casling <casling@s...> wrote: > Well said. > The great problem we seem to be faced with these days is to try and live our lives in a civilized manner, yet having to deal with others who do not. > The internet can be similar to a confrontation with baddies in that the intent of the other person is not clearly known. > It is easy to ramp up the rhetoric or tension. A small miscommunication and bullets may start flying. > Peter Blake of course is still dead and will be that way for a long time. > I would rather try and soften the situation as I believe that is a more logical way of doing things. > At least until the others intentions are clear. Is this petty theft or something serious. If it is petty theft why try and make it serious. > Some of the more recent posts are suggesting the same. > Of course when the baddies approach from a distance with guns firing before they have even met you, then obviously there is a problem that needs to be dealt with. Flack jackets and frying pans were good ideas. > It is most unlikely that we can outgun the baddies in these situations.  > I agree with everyone, it is a difficult issue, but lets not forget that we all have brains and we should try and use them for peaceful objectives. >  > Michael, X rugby player, now a sailor. >  >   ----- Original Message -----  >   From: audeojude  >   To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com  >   Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2005 6:18 AM >   Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Bank Sticks and other means of self defense >  >  >   It would be nice if people all over the world behaved in a civilized >   manner such as people that live in countries that play rugby. However >   there are people all over the world that don't play by nice rules like >   in rugby. >  >   scott >  >   --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Michael Casling <casling@s...> wrote: >   > This is the kind of conversation that takes place between males that >   live in countries that do not play rugby. >   > It is unfortunate, but that is the way things are. >   >  >  >  >  >  >   To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com >   To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com  >  >  >  > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >   YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS  >  >     a..  Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web. >        >     b..  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >      origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com >        >     c..  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.  >  >  > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >  >  >  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
9059|9014|2005-10-05 21:35:13|audeojude|Re: War and peace .|lol :) I would say take your means of self defense with you in the hope you never use it. but be prepared. also don't show it around or make it obvious at least the offensive items. As far as most of the world is concerned just apear like a nice watchfull person. :)  being able to defend yourself in the extreme case doesnt mean you aren't th nicest person around all the rest of the time. Just means your quietly prepared for the worst.  Michael I think we agree on most of this up till the point which I label extreme cases and the preparedness to deal with that. Which is fine... It would be a boring world if we all believed the same thing. My hope is that neither of us ever has to face those extreme cases. We all lose a little something no matter the outcome when they happen. scott   --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Michael Casling <casling@s...> wrote: > Agreed. If you leave your guns at home I think you will make more friends. >  > Michael >   ----- Original Message -----  >   From: audeojude  >   To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com  >   Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2005 6:55 AM >   Subject: [origamiboats] Re: War and peace . >  >  >   I have lived all over both here in the US and in other countrys.. some >   of them quite poor. If you keep a good attitude and treat people like >   you like to be treated (in a friendly and non condesending manner). >   They will quickly become friends. Many of them would steal you blind >   as the faceless rich yachty but once you become a real person to them >   they will go out of their way to be friendly and help you.  >  >   scott >  >  >  >  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
9060|9041|2005-10-05 21:36:38|audeojude|Re: Speaking of pirates!!|when you find that contact info post it for us here. :) sounds like a very cool sink scott  --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "jericoera" <jericoera@y...> wrote: > I was just quoted $35 for 5 feet of 1/2 inch ss rod I need-that sounds  > a bit like piracy to me! >  > Lets have some wishful thinking and hope for the market to be flooded  > with cheap steel. >  > I am seriously going to look at having a load shipped up from Chile. >  > I bought a copper sink for $80US from Chile that they wanted $900US  > for on the internet out of the USA. >  > My sink is hand made, twice as thick, asthetically much more pleasing > and I can get more soon as I find the guy's address in my mess of an  > office. >  > Anyone wanting copper products, look to Chile. Great country, easy to  > deal with people and from the time I drew the concept of what I wanted  > until the time the sink was in my hands  only 3 weeks. >  > Chile is one place I want to see. The y also have a huge range of bio  > diversity if you like looking at exotic palm trees and other fauna. >  > Cheers >  > Carl M |
9061|9041|2005-10-05 23:15:58|jericoera|Re: Speaking of pirates!!|I'll check over the weekend. If the guy's address ended up as fodder  for the woodstove I can call a buddy who I also gave the address to.  Should have it posted for you by Tuesday.   Have a safe Thanksgiving weekend if you are on the roads--October  has the hioghest rate of Crashes. Another good reason to be on a  boat!  Carl M  --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "audeojude" <audeojude@y...>  wrote:  > when you find that contact info post it for us here. :) sounds   like a  > very cool sink > scott > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "jericoera" <jericoera@y...>   wrote:  > > I was just quoted $35 for 5 feet of 1/2 inch ss rod I need-that   sounds   > > a bit like piracy to me! > >  > > Lets have some wishful thinking and hope for the market to be   flooded   > > with cheap steel. > >  > > I am seriously going to look at having a load shipped up from   Chile.  > >  > > I bought a copper sink for $80US from Chile that they wanted   $900US   > > for on the internet out of the USA. > >  > > My sink is hand made, twice as thick, asthetically much more   pleasing  > > and I can get more soon as I find the guy's address in my mess   of an   > > office. > >  > > Anyone wanting copper products, look to Chile. Great country,   easy to   > > deal with people and from the time I drew the concept of what I   wanted   > > until the time the sink was in my hands  only 3 weeks. > >  > > Chile is one place I want to see. The y also have a huge range   of bio   > > diversity if you like looking at exotic palm trees and other   fauna.  > >  > > Cheers > >  > > Carl M |
9062|8945|2005-10-06 00:37:41|RICHARD KOKEMOOR|Re: Bank Sticks and other means of self defense|" They take a 12  guage shotshell and cut the plastic case at the aft end of the shot  most of the way thru, leaving 1/4 inch of case intact on each  side.Then when you shoot, the plastic housing the shot stays intact  ant travells with the shot , holding it together until impact. Then  it's like a grenade going off inside the bear." Please don't try this.  Look at the breech end of your shotgun.  The first 2-3/4 or 3 inches is the chamber, which is the diameter of the outside of the plastic shell case.  Next comes the forcing cone, then most of the barrel is significantly smaller,  the size of the plastic wad filled with lead pellets inside the shell case.  Now, if you take the lead-filled wad and try to send it down the barrel still inside the front of the shell case, you will have a grenade going off inside the barrel, destroying your weapon and your hand and maybe more.  If you want to shoot a large charge of lead that stays together until impact, use a slug cartridge.  		 --------------------------------- Yahoo! for Good  Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.   [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]|
9063|9042|2005-10-06 03:25:55|edward_stoneuk|Re: Dry Exhaust Flexibility|John, Do you mean the spiral wound flexible pipe?  I had thought about that  but was concerned about how gas tight it might be inside the hull.  I  don't want to gas ourselves. Regards, Ted|
9064|9042|2005-10-06 03:45:11|Gerald Niffenegger|Re: Dry Exhaust Flexibility|--- There is a SS flex pipe available that is about a foot long and  looks like Chinese finger trap. It is claimed that they don't leak, but  don't know it the claim is 100% true. Here is the site that explains it. http://www.epiflex.com/epi_flex.html Gerald|
9065|9042|2005-10-06 04:07:46|edward_stoneuk|Re: Dry Exhaust Flexibility|Gerald, I have the exhaust bellows bit but without the braid.  It has a 2 bolt  hole flange at either end.  I was wondering wether there should be  another flexible bit where the pipe goes through the hull.  The other  thing I am thinking is that the axis of vibration is parallel to the  crankshaft on a plane through the anti-vibration mounts and that the  exhaust flexi should be across that plane and more or less  perpendicular to the axis of vibration.  I am using A/V mounts and a  flexible shaft coupler mainly in order to electrically isolate the  engine but also, of course to lessen the transmission of the engine  vibrations. Regards, Ted|
9066|9042|2005-10-06 08:46:18|John Fisher|Re: Dry Exhaust Flexibility|The ones I have seen are not the spiral wound, but a braid.  I assume they are pretty much gas tight.  they were not cheap to buy new, $100+ but should be cheap from a wrecker.
 
 John 
  
 -------Original Message-------
  
 From: edward_stoneuk
 Date: 10/06/05 01:55:56
 To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com
 Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Dry Exhaust Flexibility
  
 John,
 Do you mean the spiral wound flexible pipe?  I had thought about that
 but was concerned about how gas tight it might be inside the hull.  I
 don't want to gas ourselves.
 Regards,
 Ted
  
  
  
  
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9067|9042|2005-10-06 09:25:55|Gerald Niffenegger|Re: Dry Exhaust Flexibility|Maybe I am missing something but why wouldn't you place the flex tube  at the motor and weld the exhaust tube to the hull. That would allow  for a good heat transfer. Gerald|
9068|9042|2005-10-06 09:53:31|Jerry Scovel|Re: Dry Exhaust Flexibility|The spiral wound are stronger and last longer but it is more difficult to get a gas tight seal on  them. I would use the braided connection with 2 clamps on either side of the joint.   on 10/6/05 7:45 AM, John Fisher at racer577@... wrote:  The ones I have seen are not the spiral wound, but a braid.  I assume they are pretty much gas tight.  they were not cheap to buy new, $100+ but should be cheap from a wrecker.  John   -------Original Message-------  From: edward_stoneuk Date: 10/06/05 01:55:56 To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Dry Exhaust Flexibility  John,  Do you mean the spiral wound flexible pipe?  I had thought about that but was concerned about how gas tight it might be inside the hull.  I don't want to gas ourselves. Regards,  Ted       To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links        .  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]    To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com    SPONSORED LINKS         British columbia canada <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=British+columbia+canada&w1=British+colu mbia+canada&w2=Vancouver+island&w3=Yacht&c=3&s=62&.sig=Q4lYYtlNW0FQO44ezC2G3 Q> Vancouver island <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Vancouver+island&w1=British+columbia+ca nada&w2=Vancouver+island&w3=Yacht&c=3&s=62&.sig=TVvK0pZk9dkmygRA0hegNw> Yacht  <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Yacht&w1=British+columbia+canada&w2=Van couver+island&w3=Yacht&c=3&s=62&.sig=lCcJSZ2V25esT9G6EcjB6g>    YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS   Visit your group "origamiboats <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats> " on the web.     To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:  origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <mailto:origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>    Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]|
9069|9042|2005-10-06 10:13:38|edward_stoneuk|Re: Dry Exhaust Flexibility|Gerald, I was thinking of using a flexible bellows near the engine then  welding the exhaust to the hull where it goes through it although I  don't particularly want heat transfer to discolour the hull paint, but  then I thought that on my car the whole exhaust muffler and tail pipe  is hung on flexible mounts as well as having a braided, presumably  bellows section after the turbocharger.  So I thought that perhaps I  was missing something. Regards, Ted|
9070|9041|2005-10-06 21:23:24|brentswain38|Re: Speaking of pirates!!|They want $1500 US before they'll let you cruise there.They have made  some major updates with their laws agaist wife abuse that puts them  far ahead of the rest of the world and challenges us to play  catchup , tho. Brent  --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "jericoera" <jericoera@y...>  wrote:  > I was just quoted $35 for 5 feet of 1/2 inch ss rod I need-that   sounds   > a bit like piracy to me! >  > Lets have some wishful thinking and hope for the market to be   flooded   > with cheap steel. >  > I am seriously going to look at having a load shipped up from Chile. >  > I bought a copper sink for $80US from Chile that they wanted $900US  > for on the internet out of the USA. >  > My sink is hand made, twice as thick, asthetically much more   pleasing  > and I can get more soon as I find the guy's address in my mess of   an   > office. >  > Anyone wanting copper products, look to Chile. Great country, easy   to   > deal with people and from the time I drew the concept of what I   wanted   > until the time the sink was in my hands  only 3 weeks. >  > Chile is one place I want to see. The y also have a huge range of   bio   > diversity if you like looking at exotic palm trees and other fauna. >  > Cheers >  > Carl M |
9071|9042|2005-10-06 21:29:33|brentswain38|Re: Dry Exhaust Flexibility|I asked my father, a steam engineer all his life, how much a pipe will  expand . He said 1/4 inch in 15 feet at 1500 degrees .  According to Nigel Warren in his book "Marine Conversions, "If there  are enough turns in an exhuast pie, ther eis enough flex in it to  eliminate the need for flex pipe as long as the engine is solidly  mounted.  I ran my exhuast accross the back of the engine and bolted it to the  flywheel so that there would be no vibration on the head , then  eliminated the flex many years ago. I've had no problem with it, but my  engine is solidly mounted on poly plastic blocks with plastic bushings  and washers to eliminate any metal to metal contact.  Brent    --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "edward_stoneuk" <tedstone@g...>  wrote:  > I will soon be fitting a dry exhaust pipe.  Given the heat expansion  > of the pipe and the vibration of the engine some kind of flexible  > connection is desirable.  I intend to use a short stainless steel  > bellows connector, which I have been given.  What are the views on  > connecting the exhaust to avoid it cracking in use? > Regards, > Ted |
9072|9042|2005-10-06 22:41:50|John Langelo|Re: Dry Exhaust Flexibility|Is your exaust a dry one? If it is where does it pass through the hull?     John  brentswain38 <brentswain38@...> wrote: I asked my father, a steam engineer all his life, how much a pipe will  expand . He said 1/4 inch in 15 feet at 1500 degrees . According to Nigel Warren in his book "Marine Conversions, "If there  are enough turns in an exhuast pie, ther eis enough flex in it to  eliminate the need for flex pipe as long as the engine is solidly  mounted. I ran my exhuast accross the back of the engine and bolted it to the  flywheel so that there would be no vibration on the head , then  eliminated the flex many years ago. I've had no problem with it, but my  engine is solidly mounted on poly plastic blocks with plastic bushings  and washers to eliminate any metal to metal contact.  Brent    --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "edward_stoneuk"  wrote:  > I will soon be fitting a dry exhaust pipe. Given the heat expansion  > of the pipe and the vibration of the engine some kind of flexible  > connection is desirable. I intend to use a short stainless steel  > bellows connector, which I have been given. What are the views on  > connecting the exhaust to avoid it cracking in use? > Regards, > Ted       To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com  Yahoo! Groups Links          		 --------------------------------- Find your next car at Yahoo! Canada Autos  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]|
9073|9042|2005-10-07 06:22:42|edward_stoneuk|Re: Dry Exhaust Flexibility|John, Brent, The exhaust will be dry and probably exit through the transom above  sea level.  I do have concerns about sea water surging into the engine  when under sail during a following sea and so will have a flap over  the outlet.  I have an old stainless steel muffler that I may use.  I  am also thinking of routing the exhaust up from the engine then over  and down and out through the bottom of the hull, although Brent, I  think reported drumming on a boat with this type of outlet. With a  submerged vertical exhaust outlet a exit flap would be difficult.  Another question, is galvanised pipe OK for the exhaust or should it  be 316 stainless? Regards, Ted|
9074|9042|2005-10-07 08:00:56|sae140|Re: Dry Exhaust Flexibility|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "edward_stoneuk" <tedstone@g...>  wrote:  > > John, Brent, > The exhaust will be dry and probably exit through the transom above  > sea level.  I do have concerns about sea water surging into the   engine   > when under sail during a following sea and so will have a flap over  > the outlet.  I have an old stainless steel muffler that I may use.     Hi Ted I've always thought that Brent's technique of exiting a dry  exhaust through a s/s plate at the transom, with an immediate  90 degree down bend taking the exhaust pipe a few inches  underwater is a very simple solution to an otherwise complex installation.  Dunno if it has any snags in practice. If you were still worried about water ingress, you could always  fit a s/s ball valve just inboard of the transom.  Colin|
9075|9075|2005-10-07 09:16:39|sae140|Generators re-visited|Message: 12            Date: Wed, 05 Oct 2005 23:22:03 -0000    From: "brentswain38" <brentswain38@...> Subject: Re: Savonious power  I'm wondering if I can feesd an alternator field directly from my  battery and thus end up with an alternator for a wind generator that  kicks in at low rpm, just like my welder does. If it works it will  make an extremely cheap wind generator. Brent   Hi Brent It's a lovely idea - but the field will take several amps  to generate the same level of magnetism as that provided by  modern rare-earth permanent magnets ....    At low revs you may only be generatating a couple of amps -  result: zero net output.   I know of 3 ways to generate useful power at low revs (if  there are more - I hope someone will add to this thread !) -  the first is to rewind an alternator stator with more turns  using finer wire, then replace the electro-magnetic rotor  (field) with one containing permanent magnets.   That's a lot of work, but it *will* produce the goods.  The second way is to build a custom alternator from scratch,  such as a Hugh Piggott design.  http://www.scoraigwind.com/   They're based on an axial approach, having a rotating steel  disk with magnets fixed to either side, with stators (coils)  both in front and behind this disc.  At first sight they look  a bit like pancake motors. They're efficient, and give high  output at low revs - some produce hundreds of amps, have huge  props (like 10 or 12 ft) and are principally designed for 3rd  world community use.  I spoke with Hugh a couple of months back and asked if he had  any plans for developing a more compact design for mobile use  and, although he plans on upgrading his smallest unit (around  4ft diam ?), apparently the output from a smaller diameter  blade wouldn't make construction viable. Apparently there is some kind of 'law' in generating theory  which relates to the number of prop blades, their diameter,  and the amount of useful power which can be extracted from any  given generator.  One large diameter blade (with counterweight)  is apparently the most efficient format, but 2 or sometimes 3  blades are used for ease of construction.  Multi-bladed fans  are apparently the worst performers (in theory) - you know, the  one's you see in every marina in the world(!) - so maybe the theorists don't know everything ?  The third method is one I've already played with, and involves converting an a.c. induction motor.  The method is simplicity  itself, as long as you have access to a lathe.   First find your induction motor - I used one about 5" long and  4" dia. - and open it up.  A shallow wide groove is then  machined into the outer surface of the rotor to accomodate the  rare-earth magnets (ex computer hard-drives).  I didn't have a  lathe handy, so resorted to the creative use of an angle- grinder(!) - well, it was only an experiment ...   As the stator had 6 poles, the rotor was also divided into 6  equal segments using a gem-marker. Pairs of magnets were then  epoxied onto each segment thus: NN:SS:NN:SS:NN:SS (12 magnets  in all), and the motor reassembled. Just spinning the rotor  with my fingers produced an output of over 20V a.c.  That was as far as I took that experiment, but it clearly  produces useful voltage at low revs, which was all I was  trying to establish. If I ever used one of these as a  continuous generator, I'd be inclined to make up some kind  of regulator, as over-voltage will undoubtedly become a  problem at higher revs.  Colin|
9076|9075|2005-10-07 10:20:46|Jerry Scovel|Re: Generators re-visited|From the 1880's through the 1930's we used magnetos as motors and generators. CW it acts as a motor, CCW it generates electricity. A good source for magnetos today is telephones made before 1940, available in antique stores and swap meets $90. I buy all that I find, never found one that did not work.   on 10/7/05 8:14 AM, sae140 at colinpowell@... wrote:  Message: 12           Date: Wed, 05 Oct 2005 23:22:03 -0000   From: "brentswain38" <brentswain38@...> Subject: Re: Savonious power  I'm wondering if I can feesd an alternator field directly from my battery and thus end up with an alternator for a wind generator that kicks in at low rpm, just like my welder does. If it works it will make an extremely cheap wind generator. Brent   Hi Brent It's a lovely idea - but the field will take several amps to generate the same level of magnetism as that provided by modern rare-earth permanent magnets .... At low revs you may only be generatating a couple of amps - result: zero net output.   I know of 3 ways to generate useful power at low revs (if there are more - I hope someone will add to this thread !) - the first is to rewind an alternator stator with more turns using finer wire, then replace the electro-magnetic rotor (field) with one containing permanent magnets. That's a lot of work, but it *will* produce the goods.  The second way is to build a custom alternator from scratch, such as a Hugh Piggott design.  http://www.scoraigwind.com/ They're based on an axial approach, having a rotating steel disk with magnets fixed to either side, with stators (coils) both in front and behind this disc.  At first sight they look a bit like pancake motors. They're efficient, and give high output at low revs - some produce hundreds of amps, have huge props (like 10 or 12 ft) and are principally designed for 3rd world community use.  I spoke with Hugh a couple of months back and asked if he had any plans for developing a more compact design for mobile use and, although he plans on upgrading his smallest unit (around 4ft diam ?), apparently the output from a smaller diameter blade wouldn't make construction viable. Apparently there is some kind of 'law' in generating theory which relates to the number of prop blades, their diameter, and the amount of useful power which can be extracted from any given generator.  One large diameter blade (with counterweight) is apparently the most efficient format, but 2 or sometimes 3 blades are used for ease of construction.  Multi-bladed fans are apparently the worst performers (in theory) - you know, the one's you see in every marina in the world(!) - so maybe the theorists don't know everything ?  The third method is one I've already played with, and involves converting an a.c. induction motor.  The method is simplicity itself, as long as you have access to a lathe. First find your induction motor - I used one about 5" long and 4" dia. - and open it up.  A shallow wide groove is then machined into the outer surface of the rotor to accomodate the rare-earth magnets (ex computer hard-drives).  I didn't have a lathe handy, so resorted to the creative use of an angle- grinder(!) - well, it was only an experiment ... As the stator had 6 poles, the rotor was also divided into 6 equal segments using a gem-marker. Pairs of magnets were then epoxied onto each segment thus: NN:SS:NN:SS:NN:SS (12 magnets in all), and the motor reassembled. Just spinning the rotor with my fingers produced an output of over 20V a.c.  That was as far as I took that experiment, but it clearly produces useful voltage at low revs, which was all I was trying to establish. If I ever used one of these as a continuous generator, I'd be inclined to make up some kind of regulator, as over-voltage will undoubtedly become a problem at higher revs.  Colin        To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com    SPONSORED LINKS         British columbia canada <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=British+columbia+canada&w1=British+colu mbia+canada&w2=Vancouver+island&w3=Yacht&c=3&s=62&.sig=Q4lYYtlNW0FQO44ezC2G3 Q> Vancouver island <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Vancouver+island&w1=British+columbia+ca nada&w2=Vancouver+island&w3=Yacht&c=3&s=62&.sig=TVvK0pZk9dkmygRA0hegNw> Yacht  <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Yacht&w1=British+columbia+canada&w2=Van couver+island&w3=Yacht&c=3&s=62&.sig=lCcJSZ2V25esT9G6EcjB6g>    YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS   Visit your group "origamiboats <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats> " on the web.     To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:  origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <mailto:origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>    Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]|
9077|9075|2005-10-07 10:26:42|Ray|Re: Generators re-visited|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "sae140" <colinpowell@f...>  wrote:  >  <SNIP>   > The third method is one I've already played with, and involves > converting an a.c. induction motor.  The method is simplicity  > itself, as long as you have access to a lathe.   > First find your induction motor - I used one about 5" long and  > 4" dia. - and open it up.  A shallow wide groove is then  > machined into the outer surface of the rotor to accomodate the  > rare-earth magnets (ex computer hard-drives).  I didn't have a  > lathe handy, so resorted to the creative use of an angle- > grinder(!) - well, it was only an experiment ...   > As the stator had 6 poles, the rotor was also divided into 6  > equal segments using a gem-marker. Pairs of magnets were then  > epoxied onto each segment thus: NN:SS:NN:SS:NN:SS (12 magnets  > in all), and the motor reassembled. Just spinning the rotor  > with my fingers produced an output of over 20V a.c. >  > That was as far as I took that experiment, but it clearly  > produces useful voltage at low revs, which was all I was  > trying to establish. If I ever used one of these as a  > continuous generator, I'd be inclined to make up some kind  > of regulator, as over-voltage will undoubtedly become a  > problem at higher revs. >  > Colin   Colin - I'm NOT an EE, but, I'd like to better understand this  approach - both from an electrical and a physical-construction  perspective - care to elaborate?   Thanks -   Ray|
9078|9042|2005-10-07 10:35:55|edward_stoneuk|Re: Dry Exhaust Flexibility|Colin, Yes it is.  That said it can be a bit noisy as it is difficult to get  enough depth at the transom without going below it; one could fit a  muffler of course.  It does look a bit untidy and I have this urge,  now and again to redesign the wheel.  An up and over pipe exiting  through the hull bottom would take up less room and could be useful as  a drier for a wet clothes locker.  A stainless steel ball valve is  expensive unless one is lucky enough to come across a scrap one and  one has to remember to close and open it at the appropriate times. Regards, Ted|
9079|9075|2005-10-07 17:39:11|Jerry walker|Re: Generators re-visited|It does not have anything to do with the generator, it is the function (or  lack thereof) of the propeller. Propellers generate a large amount of drag  at the tip of the propeller blades, the more more blades, the more drag.   The higher the tip speed, the more drag.  If you listen to the horrendous  chopping sound that a large turboprop aircraft makes, it is the propeller  tips approaching compressability.  The ultimate propeller would be infinite  in length and sloooooooow.  For a propeller on a small generator you need either lots of blades or lots  of speed on fewer blades to generate power, either way you are screwed.  The  propellers problems are somewhat like the speed limit on displacement hulls.    >From: "sae140" <colinpowell@...> >Reply-To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com >To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com >Subject: [origamiboats] Generators re-visited >Date: Fri, 07 Oct 2005 13:14:01 -0000 >Apparently there is some kind of 'law' in generating theory >which relates to the number of prop blades, their diameter, >and the amount of useful power which can be extracted from any >given generator.  One large diameter blade (with counterweight) >is apparently the most efficient format, but 2 or sometimes 3 >blades are used for ease of construction.  Multi-bladed fans >are apparently the worst performers (in theory) - you know, the >one's you see in every marina in the world(!) - so maybe the >theorists don't know everything ? > |
9080|9042|2005-10-07 17:49:55|Jerry walker|Re: Dry Exhaust Flexibility|I'll pass up the cheap shot, but I would like to see a picture of your pipe  bolted to the flywheel.  Jerry    >From: "brentswain38" <brentswain38@...> >Reply-To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com >To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com >Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Dry Exhaust Flexibility >Date: Fri, 07 Oct 2005 01:29:29 -0000  >  I ran my exhuast accross the back of the engine and bolted it to the >flywheel |
9081|8945|2005-10-07 18:17:12|Carl Volkwein|Re: Hatches and door ideas|Jerry Scovel <stcfarms@...> wrote: I do not know about an elephant but it will stop a black bear, or go clean through a bad guy wearing a bulletproof vest.  on 10/3/05 6:43 PM, seeratlas at seeratlas@... wrote:  Damn jerry 125# will do an elephant, easy LOL. I shake like a 15 year old on his first date trying to pull 101. seer   --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Jerry Scovel <stcfarms@n...> wrote: > I am content to use a 125# bow, deer arrows and a 15" bowie knife, they are > legal nearly everywhere very effective. >  >  > on 10/3/05 3:26 PM, edward_stoneuk at tedstone@g... wrote: >  > Jerry, > I used the cases as an example, perhaps not very good ones of how one > can be brave and armed but still not prevail. >  > The following web site will give more details of piracy and you can > google for others. > http://www.imo.org/Newsroom/contents.asp?topic_id=67&doc_id=1060 >  > I agree with much of what Seer says, but personally have not > considered carrying arms.  This may well reflect the fact that hand > guns are illegal in the UK although I used to own a licenced 12 bore > shotgun.  I have heard of doubtfull characters made peacable by the > giving of a carton of Marlboro and some cans of soft drink.  Each > situation is different and our reaction different.  The world is > becoming a much more desparate place though. >  > Although I have not heard of one before I am fairly sure that a bang > stick would be regarded as an offensive weapon and therefore be > illegal in the UK. >  > Regards, > Ted  >  >  > How bought some of those little sky rocks, or whatever theyre called. They used to be sold in water proof packs of three, they weren't shotgun shells or anything, they looked kinda like a party noise maker, but had a red arial flare, no parachute, just a star shell.     I don't think even the U.K. would object to that.                               Carl Volkwein.   >  >  >  > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com >  >  >  >  >  > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS >  >  Visit your group "origamiboats <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats> > " on the web.  >   >  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >  origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe> >   >  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> . >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]     To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com       YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS  Visit your group "origamiboats <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats> " on the web.   To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <mailto:origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .           [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]    To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com      --------------------------------- YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS        Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web.        To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:  origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com        Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.    ---------------------------------     __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around  http://mail.yahoo.com   [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
9082|9042|2005-10-07 20:06:00|brentswain38|Re: Dry Exhaust Flexibility|I used a radiator hose where it goes below the transom so anything  hittting it will just fold the hose and slide off.Being underwater it  never gets hot enough to kill the weeds and barnacles. Brent   --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "edward_stoneuk" <tedstone@g...>  wrote:  > > Colin, > Yes it is.  That said it can be a bit noisy as it is difficult to get  > enough depth at the transom without going below it; one could fit a  > muffler of course.  It does look a bit untidy and I have this urge,  > now and again to redesign the wheel.  An up and over pipe exiting  > through the hull bottom would take up less room and could be useful   as   > a drier for a wet clothes locker.  A stainless steel ball valve is  > expensive unless one is lucky enough to come across a scrap one and  > one has to remember to close and open it at the appropriate times. > Regards, > Ted > |
9083|9042|2005-10-07 20:11:44|brentswain38|Re: Dry Exhaust Flexibility|It is a dry exhuast and goes thru the transom. Lately I have been  using a stainless doughnut, welded in flush, where it passes thru ,as  I found that even with a wet exhuast , the paint gives out after 5  years and the plate tends to rust around the exhuast.  Welding 3 inches of 4 inch ss pipe around the inside of where it  goes thru makes a nice finish for the end of then insulation. Brent    --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, John Langelo <cfyij@y...> wrote: > > Is your exaust a dry one? If it is where does it pass through the  hull? >   >   > John >  > brentswain38 <brentswain38@h...> wrote: > I asked my father, a steam engineer all his life, how much a pipe  will  > expand . He said 1/4 inch in 15 feet at 1500 degrees . > According to Nigel Warren in his book "Marine Conversions, "If  there  > are enough turns in an exhuast pie, ther eis enough flex in it to  > eliminate the need for flex pipe as long as the engine is solidly  > mounted. > I ran my exhuast accross the back of the engine and bolted it to  the  > flywheel so that there would be no vibration on the head , then  > eliminated the flex many years ago. I've had no problem with it,  but my  > engine is solidly mounted on poly plastic blocks with plastic  bushings  > and washers to eliminate any metal to metal contact. >  > Brent  >  >  > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "edward_stoneuk"  > wrote: > > I will soon be fitting a dry exhaust pipe. Given the heat  expansion  > > of the pipe and the vibration of the engine some kind of flexible  > > connection is desirable. I intend to use a short stainless steel  > > bellows connector, which I have been given. What are the views on  > > connecting the exhaust to avoid it cracking in use? > > Regards, > > Ted >  >  >  >  >  > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats- unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com  > Yahoo! Groups Links >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  > 		 > --------------------------------- > Find your next car at Yahoo! Canada Autos >  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > |
9084|9042|2005-10-07 20:17:38|brentswain38|Re: Dry Exhaust Flexibility|I prefer stainless steel sch 40 as the stainless one I have is 21 years  old and is still good. Stainless will corrode badly on a wet exhuast  where water is injected, but will last a long time with a dry exhuast. Brent  --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "edward_stoneuk" <tedstone@g...>  wrote:  > > John, Brent, > The exhaust will be dry and probably exit through the transom above  > sea level.  I do have concerns about sea water surging into the   engine   > when under sail during a following sea and so will have a flap over  > the outlet.  I have an old stainless steel muffler that I may use.  I  > am also thinking of routing the exhaust up from the engine then over  > and down and out through the bottom of the hull, although Brent, I  > think reported drumming on a boat with this type of outlet. With a  > submerged vertical exhaust outlet a exit flap would be difficult.  > Another question, is galvanised pipe OK for the exhaust or should it  > be 316 stainless? > Regards, > Ted > |
9085|9042|2005-10-07 20:18:07|brentswain38|Re: Dry Exhaust Flexibility|Being underwater, a rubber flap cut from the sidewall of a tire works  well.Being underwater , there is no need for a muffler. Brent  --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "sae140" <colinpowell@f...>  wrote:  > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "edward_stoneuk"   <tedstone@g...>   > wrote: > > > > John, Brent, > > The exhaust will be dry and probably exit through the transom   above   > > sea level.  I do have concerns about sea water surging into the  > engine  > > when under sail during a following sea and so will have a flap   over   > > the outlet.  I have an old stainless steel muffler that I may   use.    >  > Hi Ted > I've always thought that Brent's technique of exiting a dry  > exhaust through a s/s plate at the transom, with an immediate  > 90 degree down bend taking the exhaust pipe a few inches  > underwater is a very simple solution to an otherwise complex > installation.  Dunno if it has any snags in practice. > If you were still worried about water ingress, you could always  > fit a s/s ball valve just inboard of the transom. >  > Colin > |
9086|9075|2005-10-07 20:20:36|brentswain38|Re: Generators re-visited|I tried using speaker magnets for the rotor as suggested in the 12  volt doctor's handbook. It didn't work. Brent   --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "sae140" <colinpowell@f...>  wrote:  > > Message: 12         >    Date: Wed, 05 Oct 2005 23:22:03 -0000 >    From: "brentswain38" <brentswain38@h...> > Subject: Re: Savonious power >  > I'm wondering if I can feesd an alternator field directly from my  > battery and thus end up with an alternator for a wind generator   that   > kicks in at low rpm, just like my welder does. If it works it will  > make an extremely cheap wind generator. > Brent >  >  > Hi Brent > It's a lovely idea - but the field will take several amps  > to generate the same level of magnetism as that provided by  > modern rare-earth permanent magnets ....    > At low revs you may only be generatating a couple of amps -  > result: zero net output. >  >  > I know of 3 ways to generate useful power at low revs (if  > there are more - I hope someone will add to this thread !) -  > the first is to rewind an alternator stator with more turns  > using finer wire, then replace the electro-magnetic rotor  > (field) with one containing permanent magnets.   > That's a lot of work, but it *will* produce the goods. >  > The second way is to build a custom alternator from scratch,  > such as a Hugh Piggott design.  http://www.scoraigwind.com/   > They're based on an axial approach, having a rotating steel  > disk with magnets fixed to either side, with stators (coils)  > both in front and behind this disc.  At first sight they look  > a bit like pancake motors. They're efficient, and give high  > output at low revs - some produce hundreds of amps, have huge  > props (like 10 or 12 ft) and are principally designed for 3rd  > world community use. >  > I spoke with Hugh a couple of months back and asked if he had  > any plans for developing a more compact design for mobile use  > and, although he plans on upgrading his smallest unit (around  > 4ft diam ?), apparently the output from a smaller diameter  > blade wouldn't make construction viable. > Apparently there is some kind of 'law' in generating theory  > which relates to the number of prop blades, their diameter,  > and the amount of useful power which can be extracted from any  > given generator.  One large diameter blade (with counterweight)  > is apparently the most efficient format, but 2 or sometimes 3  > blades are used for ease of construction.  Multi-bladed fans  > are apparently the worst performers (in theory) - you know, the  > one's you see in every marina in the world(!) - so maybe the > theorists don't know everything ? >  > The third method is one I've already played with, and involves > converting an a.c. induction motor.  The method is simplicity  > itself, as long as you have access to a lathe.   > First find your induction motor - I used one about 5" long and  > 4" dia. - and open it up.  A shallow wide groove is then  > machined into the outer surface of the rotor to accomodate the  > rare-earth magnets (ex computer hard-drives).  I didn't have a  > lathe handy, so resorted to the creative use of an angle- > grinder(!) - well, it was only an experiment ...   > As the stator had 6 poles, the rotor was also divided into 6  > equal segments using a gem-marker. Pairs of magnets were then  > epoxied onto each segment thus: NN:SS:NN:SS:NN:SS (12 magnets  > in all), and the motor reassembled. Just spinning the rotor  > with my fingers produced an output of over 20V a.c. >  > That was as far as I took that experiment, but it clearly  > produces useful voltage at low revs, which was all I was  > trying to establish. If I ever used one of these as a  > continuous generator, I'd be inclined to make up some kind  > of regulator, as over-voltage will undoubtedly become a  > problem at higher revs. >  > Colin > |
9087|8945|2005-10-07 21:59:45|Jerry Scovel|Re: Hatches and door ideas|I guess growing up on a dairy farm was good for something, it made me as strong as an ox.   on 10/7/05 5:17 PM, Carl Volkwein at carlvolkwein@... wrote:    Jerry Scovel <stcfarms@...> wrote: I do not know about an elephant but it will stop a black bear, or go clean through a bad guy wearing a bulletproof vest.  on 10/3/05 6:43 PM, seeratlas at seeratlas@... wrote:  Damn jerry 125# will do an elephant, easy LOL. I shake like a 15 year old on his first date trying to pull 101. seer   --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Jerry Scovel <stcfarms@n...> wrote: > I am content to use a 125# bow, deer arrows and a 15" bowie knife, they are > legal nearly everywhere very effective. >  >  > on 10/3/05 3:26 PM, edward_stoneuk at tedstone@g... wrote: >  > Jerry, > I used the cases as an example, perhaps not very good ones of how one > can be brave and armed but still not prevail. >  > The following web site will give more details of piracy and you can > google for others. > http://www.imo.org/Newsroom/contents.asp?topic_id=67&doc_id=1060 >  > I agree with much of what Seer says, but personally have not > considered carrying arms.  This may well reflect the fact that hand > guns are illegal in the UK although I used to own a licenced 12 bore > shotgun.  I have heard of doubtfull characters made peacable by the > giving of a carton of Marlboro and some cans of soft drink.  Each > situation is different and our reaction different.  The world is > becoming a much more desparate place though. >  > Although I have not heard of one before I am fairly sure that a bang > stick would be regarded as an offensive weapon and therefore be > illegal in the UK. >  > Regards, > Ted  >  >  > How bought some of those little sky rocks, or whatever theyre called. They used to be sold in water proof packs of three, they weren't shotgun shells or anything, they looked kinda like a party noise maker, but had a red arial flare, no parachute, just a star shell.    I don't think even the U.K. would object to that.                              Carl Volkwein.   >  >  >  > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com >  >  >  >  >  > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS >  >  Visit your group "origamiboats <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats> > " on the web.  >   >  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >  origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe> >   >  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> . >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]     To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com       YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS  Visit your group "origamiboats <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats> " on the web.   To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <mailto:origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .           [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]    To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com     --------------------------------- YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS      Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web.      To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com      Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.   ---------------------------------     __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]    To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com      YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS   Visit your group "origamiboats <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats> " on the web.     To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:  origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <mailto:origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>    Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
9088|9075|2005-10-08 13:43:27|sae140|Re: Generators re-visited|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Ray" <raykimbro@y...> wrote:  > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "sae140" <colinpowell@f...>  > wrote: > > > <SNIP>  > > The third method is one I've already played with, and involves > > converting an a.c. induction motor.  The method is simplicity  > > itself, as long as you have access to a lathe.    > Colin - I'm NOT an EE, but, I'd like to better understand this  > approach - both from an electrical and a physical-construction  > perspective - care to elaborate?  >  > Thanks -  >  > Ray >   Hi Ray  The basic principle is to move a coil though a magnetic field  (or vice versa) to generate an electrical current, just as  Faraday did way back in the early days.    To save using up group bandwidth, I'll include a few relevant  links here - if you need more info, email me off-forum.  Induction motor generators (using residual magnetism):  http://www.qsl.net/ns8o/Induction_Generator.html  http://www.otherpower.com/danb_windmill.html  http://www.otherpower.com/learningcurve.html (2nd graphic from top is useful - but a bit dark)   http://www.windstuffnow.com/main/gm_alt_mod.htm this is a converted auto (vehicle) alternator which remains  a relatively high-speed device. To make it a 'slower device',  simply use more windings of finer wire.  Exactly the same principle is used in converting a mains  induction motor, except with induction motors all the windings  are in series, and so will produce a much higher voltage at  lower revs.   http://www.jspayne.com/alt/gmaltmod.html In this link you can see the use of bootstrap magnets.  A  slightly better approach is to use very thin magnets from computer hard drives which will *just* slide under the  rotor's 'fingers' and can then be glued in place - no  chance of these then flying off !   The author doesn't  rewind the stator - if he did, then he'd get much better  results.   http://www.scoraigwind.com/books/index.htm shows you how much theoretical power can be obtained from  a given prop diameter  http://www.dplusv.com/Photo-03.html Photo gallery only: induction-motor rotor modification are  in the row adjacent to the electrical diagram.  I know *absolutely nothing* about Savonious Rotors - but  this is a link to a dozen Savonius links: http://www.southcom.com.au/~windmill/   Hope this is helpful Colin  Oh - and if you want to see an example of what *not* to do  - check out: http://www.greeleynet.com/~cmorrison/WindMachine.html This guy starts-off with the wrong kind of motor - then  changes the magnets *and* rewinds the armature (a helluva  job !), but still ends up with a less than ideal generator.|
9089|9075|2005-10-08 13:47:31|sae140|Re: Generators re-visited|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Jerry walker"  <carrabellefl@h...> wrote:  >  > For a propeller on a small generator you need either lots of blades   or lots   > of speed on fewer blades to generate power, either way you are   screwed.  The   > propellers problems are somewhat like the speed limit on   displacement hulls.  >    Hi Jerry  I have a slightly better understanding of this now, thanks  to having unearthed an interview with Marcellus Jacobs: http://www.motherearthnews.com/Alternative_Energy/ 1973_November_December/The_Plowboy_Interview  It seems that 3 blades are best in practice - any more blades  just create drag (as you say), whereas a two bladed prop is  prone to breaking should the generator head yaw abruptly -  something discovered in the 1920's/30's.  It seems that using a multi-bladed fan does give increased  torque at low wind speeds, but is detrimental at high wind  speeds due to the increased drag which effectively acts as  a braking force - which is exactly what you want in an  unbraked or unregulated portable generator.  Maybe that's  why Ampair have opted for their multi-bladed fan design ?  But ultimately it's the swept area that determines the  output, which is what I think you're referring to ?  Colin|
9090|9075|2005-10-09 14:22:44|Denis Buggy|Re: Generators re-visited|dear jerry well explained , what do you think of windside.com rotors regards denis    ----- Original Message -----    From: Jerry walker    To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com    Sent: Friday, October 07, 2005 10:39 PM   Subject: RE: [origamiboats] Generators re-visited     It does not have anything to do with the generator, it is the function (or    lack thereof) of the propeller. Propellers generate a large amount of drag    at the tip of the propeller blades, the more more blades, the more drag.     The higher the tip speed, the more drag.  If you listen to the horrendous    chopping sound that a large turboprop aircraft makes, it is the propeller    tips approaching compressability.  The ultimate propeller would be infinite    in length and sloooooooow.    For a propeller on a small generator you need either lots of blades or lots    of speed on fewer blades to generate power, either way you are screwed.  The    propellers problems are somewhat like the speed limit on displacement hulls.     >From: "sae140" <colinpowell@...>   >Reply-To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com   >To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com   >Subject: [origamiboats] Generators re-visited   >Date: Fri, 07 Oct 2005 13:14:01 -0000   >Apparently there is some kind of 'law' in generating theory   >which relates to the number of prop blades, their diameter,   >and the amount of useful power which can be extracted from any   >given generator.  One large diameter blade (with counterweight)   >is apparently the most efficient format, but 2 or sometimes 3   >blades are used for ease of construction.  Multi-bladed fans   >are apparently the worst performers (in theory) - you know, the   >one's you see in every marina in the world(!) - so maybe the   >theorists don't know everything ?   >       To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com   To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com     ------------------------------------------------------------------------------   YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS       a..  Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web.            b..  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:      origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com            c..  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
9091|9091|2005-10-09 16:42:09|WSD Binns|SZTRANDEK 4.9M (Ragnar Danneskold)|http://www.geocities.com/wduncanbinns/ http://groups.msn.com/TheClandestineBoatWorks/theclandestineboatworks. msnw  Boatbuilding Resources,  I have an up and coming boat-building project I need your assistance with in completing by the end of the Summer of 2006. It's for a plywood-based design called the Sztrandek 4.9 and I will expend no more than $5,000.00 USD for its' construction and fitting-out. All I will need help with is in the acquisition of materials and a place where construction can be carried-out over the projected 12+ month period where I will basically "live in a tent" and dedicate around 40 hours of my very own personal labour, per week, in the construction of the Sztrandek 4.9M (to be christened the "Ragnar Danneskold" when registered at a future time within the State of Florida). To facilitate this end, I have acquired a Manufacturer's Identification Code (i.e. M.I.C.) known by the initials "JQC" and will welcome any andall further assistance in the expediting of needed materials and in the reduction of overall monetary expenditures. Please submit your estimates, proposals and advice, and peruse the links I've submitted so that youmay have a better idea and "taste" of what is about to get underway. Thank you for your time and assistance. --W.S. Duncan- Binns.  http://www.zeglarstwo.3miasto.pl/sztraeng/sztrengl.html http://www.zeglarstwo.3miasto.pl/budowy/roberto/budowa.html ====================================================================== "'Cause ya cain't frye chikin'shit wid'out da LAWD!" -Exclaimed Dr. Warden Rowe when asked by WSD Binns why a Holy Bible was on such prominent display during the blood test.  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/shadowobjectivists/message/175 ====================================================================== http://dc.endtas.com/modules.php?name=Forums  Comrades,  I am currently utilizing the SZTRANDEK 4.9M study plans in the (my) quest to acquire some kind of "blind understanding" of her overall sailing characteristics, seaworthiness and cruising potential. From what I can gather from my preliminary analysis of the given Technical Data, the SZTRANDEK 4.9M is fundamentally a compact, gaff-rigged, light-displacement small cruiser with an extremely conservative sail- area to reduce the danger of capsizing in the "strong wind gust" maritime regions.  Theoretical Hull Speed: 5.126 knots (or 5.9mph) Ballast/Displacement Ratio: 18.3% Displacement/Length Ratio: 257.6 Sail Area/Displacement Ratio: 3.5 to 5.2  Questions. The only preliminary question I would have for the naval architect/designer would be, "With added sail area, will the SZTRANDEK regularly plane above hull speed?" Based upon my calculations, this boat is a lopsided compromise between comfort and speed: "She'll crawl!"  Design Modification Notes. I am planning to reduce SZTRANDEK's cockpit size by one-third to enhance crew live-ability, and I am going to increase her sail area by 95% through a re-configuration of the rig into my very own kind of "hybrid cutter" improvisational, expedient design: Extend mast length by one-fifth, add a second jib (foresail), and construct a rig to bend additional sail (topsail) from the extended mast area above the gaff. "Is my understanding of basic naval architectual concepts valid or what?" Tell me what you think. ====================================================================== "Easy? Who said I was big & easy?" --Kitt Ballantine, Jew Poet  SZTRANDEK 4.9M Design Modifications, Part 2: more ballast, further reduction in cockpit area size, and bowsprit for 2nd jib (to expand foresail area).  Basic "Clandestine Boat Works" Boat-Building Terms & Concepts:  1. "STOW-RAGE" is the name we ShadowObjectivists inside the "Clandestine Boat Works" give the place where valuable assets, instruments and components, tools and materials, get stowed when not in use in order to prevent their loss at the jobsite. (The first step any seaman, sailor and boatbuilder should take in the pre- construction phase of any boatbuilding project is to stow, store and stockpile any and all essential safety equipment, carpentry tools and construction materials within a secured storage facility.)  2. "HEADHUNTING" is the term we ShadowObjectivists use in the locating and the securing of suitable jobsites for our boatbuilding enterprises. [This second step in the pre-construction sequence involves understanding our needs within the given budget restrictions and construction material (acquisition) requirements, and whether privacy (the utmost secrecy) will become, or will need to become, an important factor: Go look around at the less prosperous marinas and shipyards in your area and ask them if it might be possible for a "carpenter" to utilize some space for a boatbuilding project. Ask them if this might be done free-of-charge, through bartering or exchange of services, or for a reasonable monthly fee. (If the answer is, "No!" one could try the water-front parking lots utilizing the same approach, but I'm afraid the bartering/exchange and free-of- charge jobsite requests are out of the question.) Going the "secrecy" route, there is no substitute for conducting a reconnissance mission for the most abandoned, secluded and neglected vacant lots and parcels of land near the water-fronts of your area. These are the places where we ShadowObjectivist inside the "Clandestine Boat Works" carry-out our boatbuilding objectives clandestinely -- and for free! (Even though there won't be any access to electricity and running water, and shelter will be a feat of skillful improvisation, you will appreciate the revelation that your boatbuilding project, having taken-on a spirit of urgency, is experiencing a rapid completion and, once completed, a greater quality in the finish and fitting-out. As my foreman, Murrin Castello, once said, "The niceties of comfortable surroundings hamper construction projects!") Utilize one of those camp tents from Wal-Mart and a hardware store bought tarpulin to cover self, equipment, materials and work.]  Pre-construction Phase Sequence. My first concern, after securing "stow-rage" and finding the most favorable boatbuilding environment, will be to acquire all the essential, necessary assets needed to bring SZTRANDEK 4.9M together in the shortest amount of time. "What is the correct sequence for the pre-construction (design) phase?" After consulting my many boatbuilding resources, both on-line and bibliographic, the obvious answer lies where the carpenters begin: with safety equipment, tools and materials.  http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/wwg/start.shtml http://www.northerntool.com and http://www.acehardware.com/home/index.jsp  3. The "Project Bag" is a lockable carrying-case for important books, plans, charts, blueprints, meteorological instruments, the most essential of carpenter's measuring, layout and marking tools, etc. The "project bag" holds the things no seaman, sailor and boatbuilder can be without during any hour of the day!  4. "Five-Gallon Bucket" (The ClandestineBoatWorks Tool-Box). Duluth Trading sells this contraption called the "Bucket Master" which can contain most of all the things needed to execute any plywood-based boatbuilding project. My tool-box for the SZTRANDEK 4.9M design follows what most carpenters are issued for homebuilding and wood- working construction projects: a) 20'-25' Measuring Tape; b) Combination Square; c) Carpenter's Square; d) Carpenter's Level; e) Utility Knife; f) Set Of Carpenter Pencils; g) Chalkline; h) 26in. 10- Point Crosscut Saw; i) Three-Quarter-Inch Butt Chisel; j) Block Plane; k) Four-In-Hand; l) Perforated Rasp; m) Curved-Claw Hammer; n) Screwdriver Set; o) Adjustable Wrench; p) Adjustable T-Bevel; q) Pry Bar; r) C-Clamps; s) Backsaw w/Miter Box; t) Re-chargable Cordless Drill; u) Re-Chargable Cordless Saw. (Note: Most carpenters add additional tools to the kit as required during construction.)  http://www.duluthtrading.com/home.asp ====================================================================== "The measure of success is not whether you have a tough problem to deal with, but whether its the same problem you had last year." -John Foster Dulles  Comrades,  My inspectional reading of TO THE THIRD POWER by Paul C. Larsen is currently at the crucial middle-passage and, at this critical juncture, I am borrowing ideas from the text left-and-right! It's about how the novice Bill Koch, the wealthy industrialist, won the 1992 America's Cup on his very first go... it's about how he pulled that amazing feat off, from conception to construction to victory, in eighteen months' time.  "The America's Cup," he said, "is not just a sailboat race. It is a race of MANAGEMENT, TECHNOLOGY, TEAMWORK, MONEY, and - incidentally - SAILING." The lessons I am taking away from this book, comrades, apply to all areas of life! When, at first, I had thought it would only make my construction, fitting-out and sailing of the SZTRANDEK 4.9M (Summer 2006) and the GLEN-L 7.9 (projected for 2007-2008) much more efficient and effective, i.e. manageable, it has also shown me, and taught me, even, that multi-millionaires will beg for money and solicit for "gifts-in-kind" if such approaches will benefit their cause! "If begging for donations is good enough for a billionaire, then asking for advice and free gifts should be a much lesser evil."  I am so excited!  Bill Koch's MANIFESTO is now required reading for all ShadowObjectivists and members of our newly formed "Union" (i.e. league or "gang") of live-a-boarders, called The Clandestine Boat Works International, LLC (or "CBW" for short). Comrades, our battle- cry is "Boat bums of the World unite!"  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/shadowobjectivists/|
9092|9091|2005-10-09 19:06:07|Jerry walker|Re: SZTRANDEK 4.9M (Ragnar Danneskold)|Where do you plan to build or where would you like to build.  I have a 3  acre spread just outside of Panama City, FL and might be able to let you use  some of it. Jerry Walker    >From: "WSD Binns" <wsduncanb@...> >Reply-To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com >To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com >Subject: [origamiboats] SZTRANDEK 4.9M (Ragnar Danneskold) >Date: Sun, 09 Oct 2005 20:40:16 -0000 > >http://www.geocities.com/wduncanbinns/ >http://groups.msn.com/TheClandestineBoatWorks/theclandestineboatworks. >msnw > >Boatbuilding Resources, > >I have an up and coming boat-building project I need your assistance >with in completing by the end of the Summer of 2006. It's for a >plywood-based design called the Sztrandek 4.9 and I will expend no >more than $5,000.00 USD for its' construction and fitting-out. All I >will need help with is in the acquisition of materials and a place >where construction can be carried-out over the projected 12+ month >period where I will basically "live in a tent" and dedicate around 40 >hours of my very own personal labour, per week, in the construction >of the Sztrandek 4.9M (to be christened the "Ragnar Danneskold" when >registered at a future time within the State of Florida). To >facilitate this end, I have acquired a Manufacturer's Identification >Code (i.e. M.I.C.) known by the initials "JQC" and will welcome any >andall further assistance in the expediting of needed materials and >in the reduction of overall monetary expenditures. Please submit your >estimates, proposals and advice, and peruse the links I've submitted >so that youmay have a better idea and "taste" of what is about to get >underway. Thank you for your time and assistance. --W.S. Duncan- >Binns. > >http://www.zeglarstwo.3miasto.pl/sztraeng/sztrengl.html >http://www.zeglarstwo.3miasto.pl/budowy/roberto/budowa.html >====================================================================== >"'Cause ya cain't >frye chikin'shit >wid'out da LAWD!" >-Exclaimed Dr. Warden Rowe >when asked by WSD Binns >why a Holy Bible was on >such prominent display >during the blood test. > >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/shadowobjectivists/message/175 >====================================================================== >http://dc.endtas.com/modules.php?name=Forums > >Comrades, > >I am currently utilizing the SZTRANDEK 4.9M study plans in the (my) >quest to acquire some kind of "blind understanding" of her overall >sailing characteristics, seaworthiness and cruising potential. From >what I can gather from my preliminary analysis of the given Technical >Data, the SZTRANDEK 4.9M is fundamentally a compact, gaff-rigged, >light-displacement small cruiser with an extremely conservative sail- >area to reduce the danger of capsizing in the "strong wind gust" >maritime regions. > >Theoretical Hull Speed: 5.126 knots (or 5.9mph) >Ballast/Displacement Ratio: 18.3% >Displacement/Length Ratio: 257.6 >Sail Area/Displacement Ratio: 3.5 to 5.2 > >Questions. The only preliminary question I would have for the naval >architect/designer would be, "With added sail area, will the >SZTRANDEK regularly plane above hull speed?" Based upon my >calculations, this boat is a lopsided compromise between comfort and >speed: "She'll crawl!" > >Design Modification Notes. I am planning to reduce SZTRANDEK's >cockpit size by one-third to enhance crew live-ability, and I am >going to increase her sail area by 95% through a re-configuration of >the rig into my very own kind of "hybrid cutter" improvisational, >expedient design: Extend mast length by one-fifth, add a second jib >(foresail), and construct a rig to bend additional sail (topsail) >from the extended mast area above the gaff. "Is my understanding of >basic naval architectual concepts valid or what?" Tell me what you >think. >====================================================================== >"Easy? Who said I was big & easy?" >--Kitt Ballantine, Jew Poet > >SZTRANDEK 4.9M >Design Modifications, >Part 2: more ballast, >further reduction in >cockpit area size, >and bowsprit for >2nd jib (to expand >foresail area). > >Basic "Clandestine Boat Works" Boat-Building Terms & Concepts: > >1. "STOW-RAGE" is the name we ShadowObjectivists inside >the "Clandestine Boat Works" give the place where valuable assets, >instruments and components, tools and materials, get stowed when not >in use in order to prevent their loss at the jobsite. (The first step >any seaman, sailor and boatbuilder should take in the pre- >construction phase of any boatbuilding project is to stow, store and >stockpile any and all essential safety equipment, carpentry tools and >construction materials within a secured storage facility.) > >2. "HEADHUNTING" is the term we ShadowObjectivists use in the >locating and the securing of suitable jobsites for our boatbuilding >enterprises. [This second step in the pre-construction sequence >involves understanding our needs within the given budget restrictions >and construction material (acquisition) requirements, and whether >privacy (the utmost secrecy) will become, or will need to become, an >important factor: Go look around at the less prosperous marinas and >shipyards in your area and ask them if it might be possible for >a "carpenter" to utilize some space for a boatbuilding project. Ask >them if this might be done free-of-charge, through bartering or >exchange of services, or for a reasonable monthly fee. (If the answer >is, "No!" one could try the water-front parking lots utilizing the >same approach, but I'm afraid the bartering/exchange and free-of- >charge jobsite requests are out of the question.) Going the "secrecy" >route, there is no substitute for conducting a reconnissance mission >for the most abandoned, secluded and neglected vacant lots and >parcels of land near the water-fronts of your area. These are the >places where we ShadowObjectivist inside the "Clandestine Boat Works" >carry-out our boatbuilding objectives clandestinely -- and for free! >(Even though there won't be any access to electricity and running >water, and shelter will be a feat of skillful improvisation, you will >appreciate the revelation that your boatbuilding project, having >taken-on a spirit of urgency, is experiencing a rapid completion and, >once completed, a greater quality in the finish and fitting-out. As >my foreman, Murrin Castello, once said, "The niceties of comfortable >surroundings hamper construction projects!") Utilize one of those >camp tents from Wal-Mart and a hardware store bought tarpulin to >cover self, equipment, materials and work.] > >Pre-construction Phase Sequence. My first concern, after >securing "stow-rage" and finding the most favorable boatbuilding >environment, will be to acquire all the essential, necessary assets >needed to bring SZTRANDEK 4.9M together in the shortest amount of >time. "What is the correct sequence for the pre-construction (design) >phase?" After consulting my many boatbuilding resources, both on-line >and bibliographic, the obvious answer lies where the carpenters >begin: with safety equipment, tools and materials. > >http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/wwg/start.shtml >http://www.northerntool.com and >http://www.acehardware.com/home/index.jsp > >3. The "Project Bag" is a lockable carrying-case for important books, >plans, charts, blueprints, meteorological instruments, the most >essential of carpenter's measuring, layout and marking tools, etc. >The "project bag" holds the things no seaman, sailor and boatbuilder >can be without during any hour of the day! > >4. "Five-Gallon Bucket" (The ClandestineBoatWorks Tool-Box). Duluth >Trading sells this contraption called the "Bucket Master" which can >contain most of all the things needed to execute any plywood-based >boatbuilding project. My tool-box for the SZTRANDEK 4.9M design >follows what most carpenters are issued for homebuilding and wood- >working construction projects: a) 20'-25' Measuring Tape; b) >Combination Square; c) Carpenter's Square; d) Carpenter's Level; e) >Utility Knife; f) Set Of Carpenter Pencils; g) Chalkline; h) 26in. 10- >Point Crosscut Saw; i) Three-Quarter-Inch Butt Chisel; j) Block >Plane; k) Four-In-Hand; l) Perforated Rasp; m) Curved-Claw Hammer; n) >Screwdriver Set; o) Adjustable Wrench; p) Adjustable T-Bevel; q) Pry >Bar; r) C-Clamps; s) Backsaw w/Miter Box; t) Re-chargable Cordless >Drill; u) Re-Chargable Cordless Saw. (Note: Most carpenters add >additional tools to the kit as required during construction.) > >http://www.duluthtrading.com/home.asp >====================================================================== >"The measure of success is not whether >you have a tough problem to deal with, >but whether its the same problem you >had last year." -John Foster Dulles > >Comrades, > >My inspectional reading of TO THE THIRD POWER by Paul C. Larsen is >currently at the crucial middle-passage and, at this critical >juncture, I am borrowing ideas from the text left-and-right! It's >about how the novice Bill Koch, the wealthy industrialist, won the >1992 America's Cup on his very first go... it's about how he pulled >that amazing feat off, from conception to construction to victory, in >eighteen months' time. > >"The America's Cup," he said, "is not just a sailboat race. It is a >race of MANAGEMENT, TECHNOLOGY, TEAMWORK, MONEY, and - incidentally - >SAILING." The lessons I am taking away from this book, comrades, >apply to all areas of life! When, at first, I had thought it would >only make my construction, fitting-out and sailing of the SZTRANDEK >4.9M (Summer 2006) and the GLEN-L 7.9 (projected for 2007-2008) much >more efficient and effective, i.e. manageable, it has also shown me, >and taught me, even, that multi-millionaires will beg for money and >solicit for "gifts-in-kind" if such approaches will benefit their >cause! "If begging for donations is good enough for a billionaire, >then asking for advice and free gifts should be a much lesser evil." > >I am so excited! > >Bill Koch's MANIFESTO is now required reading for all >ShadowObjectivists and members of our newly formed "Union" (i.e. >league or "gang") of live-a-boarders, called The Clandestine Boat >Works International, LLC (or "CBW" for short). Comrades, our battle- >cry is "Boat bums of the World unite!" > >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/shadowobjectivists/ > > > > |
9093|9075|2005-10-10 08:15:19|Bill Jaine|Re: Generators re-visited|Sooo�. What about propeller tips like wing tips?     Bill   Port Hope. Canada        The higher the tip speed, the more drag.  If you listen to the horrendous    chopping sound that a large turboprop aircraft makes, it is the propeller    tips approaching compressability.  The ultimate propeller would be infinite    in length and sloooooooow.     -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.13/124 - Release Date: 07/10/2005    --  No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.13/124 - Release Date: 07/10/2005     [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]|
9094|9075|2005-10-10 08:32:37|Ray|Re: Generators re-visited|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "sae140" <colinpowell@f...> wrote:  >  <Excellent references snipped>  Thank you Colin - this info indeed did anwswer my questions.   Ray|
9095|8765|2005-10-10 15:00:30|seeratlas|Re: Origami shape and Scantling|Henri,  I was making a point about the relationship between the density of the medium vs. the weight and surface area of the bug.  If I remember correctly the original 'scientist' was relying upon the aerodynamics formulas for a fixxed wing craft weighing thousands of pounds traveling thru air. What is more relevant is first, at the bb's level, the density of air is such that the vortice's he creates by 'waving' his two sets of wings in a synchronous pattern result more in a 'swimming' motion, in effect, he rides on the vortices (visualize small whirlpools) he creates himself.  These higher pressure areas generated by the bb's 'swiming' motion, result in lift not accounted for in the then in vogue airplane wing formulas.  seer     --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Henri Naths" <c_hnaths@t...> wrote: > > [just catchin' up,84 unread] >  my 2 cents about "expert" opinion. Back in the40 & '50 ies when frontal  > lobotomies were popular form of treatment, the brain surgeons and  > neurologist only understood 10% of the brain and it's function and the myth  > evolved that we only use 10% of our brain, thereby perpetuating the folly.  > Today we know that era of brain surgery was a disaster and best forgotten  > and we do in fact use 100% of our brain (although not always effectively)  > The "expert opinion" is often left to the interpretation of the masses. > H. >  ps Seer.. um ..on any level, aerodynamics is_ a fluid level. Please explain  > your example. (please ignore if later postings does this) >  > ----- Original Message -----  > From: "seeratlas" <seeratlas@y...> > To: <origamiboats@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: 27 September, 2005 3:30 PM > Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Origami shape and Scantling >  >  > > Well, now....tho I only slept in a Holday Inn last night... :).... > > seems to my recollection that there is a bit more involved... you see, > > on the bumblebee's level, aerodynamics becomes more like fluid > > dynamics, to put it simply,, the bumblebee's motion thru the air is > > more akin to swimming thru a heavy fluid than flying a heavy plane > > thru air:) in truth, when adjudged that way, the theory, math, > > physics, and  practice are all in harmony. > > > > In either event, the point Brent makes is the same and still valid, > > i.e. someone with 'credentials' made a completely wrong statement, er > > uh duh...like we don't see that often? > > > > seer > > > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Chris Lasdauskas <cml@t...> wrote: > >> Picky as this may seem... > >> > >> brentswain38 wrote: > >> > >> > >> >   Mathematical formulae used in aircraft design all predict that it > >> > is mathematically impossible for a bee to fly. Which is wrong, the > >> > bee or the formula? > >> > >> This is completely incorrect. First of all the reference was to bumble > >> bees (they were assumed to be too heavy for their wing size); secondly > >> that was basically one (German, I believe) aerodynamicist in the 1930; > >> thirdly, it was quickly pointedout that bumble bee wings are dynamic > > not > >> fixed like, say, a cessna's wings, and when the orrect (and known in > > the > >> 1930s) theory was used it matched reality. > >> > >> Unfortunately, since it was a German sceintist, during the Nazi era, > > who > >>   made this claim it rapidly entered into folk-lore as evidence of how > >> stupid, initially, Germans were, and later all theoreticians. It > > remains > >> popular with those who scorn science. > >> > >> Chris > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:  > > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > |
9096|8945|2005-10-10 15:05:31|seeratlas|Re: Bank Sticks and other means of self defense|LOL :) While rugby is indeed a tough sport, the 'sport' of kings remains the toughest of them all, and, if I remember correctly, the Aussies play some pretty rowdy rugby...and aren't entirely harmless in the king's sport either. Oh, and they do play Rugby in the US, its just that most of us have come to realize that helmets, and a few strategically placed pads not to mention a stout cup, are useful in ensuring that one lives to play, relatively completely functional, another day :).  seer   --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Michael Casling <casling@s...> wrote: > > This is the kind of conversation that takes place between males that live in countries that do not play rugby. > It is unfortunate, but that is the way things are. >  > Michael >   ----- Original Message -----  >   From: audeojude  >   To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com  >   Sent: Tuesday, October 04, 2005 7:37 AM >   Subject: [origamiboats] Bank Sticks and other means of self defense >  >  >   http://www.freediver.net/freedivelist/faqstuff/faq_bangsticks.html >  >   http://bluewaterhunter.com/shopsite_sc/store/html/ >   shop_bangsticks_biller.html >  >   this is very cool link in that they talk about actuall use underwater >   of variuse caliber bang sticks  >  >   http://yarchive.net/gun/ammo/underwater_shooting.html >  >   I actually had this conversation a couple days ago at the after race >   cookout for the local sailing club. A few of us brainstormed many >   cruel and unusual things to do to poor unsuspecting bad guys that >   intend to hurt you and your boat while you are out cruising and >   subject to different nations customs officers and laws.  >  >   :) several of us were ex-military with training in unconventional >   explosives, booby traps and weapons, it was a creative conversation to >   say the least :) >  >  >   If it is pirates with automatic weapons though these would just piss >   them off so that they will shoot you and your steel boat full of holes >   like a pieces of swiss cheese. I want to make a point I have not heard >   anyone make explicitly. Military rifles shooting at a steel boat such >   as brents will open it up like a can oppener. the steel is just too >   thin to stop a rile round moving in excess of 3000 ft per second. It >   might delect it if it hits at an angle but at any reasonable range >   shooting straight at the sides of the boat or cabin these bullets will >   go right through the metal and out the other side.. or maybe ricochet >   around inside the boat.  >  >   I won't go into most of the bad guys die in gruesome ways ideas we >   came up with. But we came up with several easy to moderatly difficult >   ways to deter most people trying to break into your boat or harm you. >  >  >   1. simply being able to secure the boat so entry is difficult with out >   major tools such as a torch or metal cutting saw. brents boats are >   ideal for this passive defense that will work well in most populated >   anchorages where your risk is covert breaking and entering. The >   assailants will not wish to have the whole harbor knowing they are >   robbing you at gun or knife point. >  >   2. A very powerfull strobe light and alarm that can be triggered >   manually or by motion detection when you are not there. You can get >   strobes that will temporarly blind someone if they are looking at it >   when it goes off. this is very effective :) also if you are looking at >   fighting the militarily armed pirates on the high seas this will help >   if aimed at them under the right circumstances as its hard to >   acurately shoot as someone when you can't see. Also sound is a >   impresive weapon all on its own. It call attention to your boat. >   People breaking the law dont like attention drawn to them. Also past a >   certain level sound can physically damage someone. inside your foamed >   steel hull you should be protected from most of the sound at levels >   that will physicaly hurt a person on the deck or beside the boat. >  >   3. Mace.... its nasty and semi effective. this is for those people >   that have already gained your decks and are close enough to hit with >   it. However someone that has had training or is hopped up on drugs can >   continue to funtion with a face full of mace even though it is >   seriously hurting them.. especially if they have warning that it is >   going to be used on them. >  >   4. a little more difficult but that could affect the intire area >   around your boat or down wind if much of a breeze is blowing is a >   system that allows you to pump smoke out over the decks of the boat >   and out the sides from burning capsesian (distilled hot peppers) If >   you have ever burn't your dinner you were making with really hot >   peppers or hot sause and remember how difficult it was to breath in >   the vicinity till you aired out the kitchen will get the idea for >   this.  I will leave it up to you to figure out the details for this :) >  >   5. another more work idea... get a large pump that runs off your >   engine and powers a deck mounted water  cannon.. at a couple hundered >   psi you should be able to generate a stream of water that will knock a >   man off his feet more than 150 ft away.. not to mention that you can >   put out boat fires for your neighboors and have a monster bilge pump >   with the turn of a valve. :) you should be able to make or buy a used >   one from a fire department etc.. >  >   6. Bank sticks... everyone has already talked about these. >  >   7. flare gun.. they are legal on boats everywhere.. actually they are >   required most places :).. being hit with a burning flare is nasty..bad >   bad..... you   can also purchase flare guns made to accept and be safe >   firing 12 ad 20 gauge shot gun shells. >  >   8. shotgun.... for a fire arm they are much more accepted around the >   world than pistols or rifles.. they can fire buckshot and slugs that >   will open major holes in boats. if your goal is self defense in a >   limited arena a shot gun is the only firearm that makes sense. forget >   about how cool you look with a pistol. shot guns are much scarier >   looking to the person your pointing them at and your much more likely >   to do damage to them with it than with a pistol.  >  >   9. tasers... not a lot of experience with these but hey it should work >   if you know how to use them. maybe a heavy duty cattle prod :) stuck >   through a port hole. >  >   10. the knowledge that weapons are not dangerous.. There are only >   dangerous people. A gun or any other weapon is going to sit where you >   last laid it and watch you get killed. It will not go off on its own >   to protect you. A person coming at you with a weapon or intent to harm >   you is a dangerous person. In that they have the will, intent and >   probably the ability to hurt you unless you have taken precautions. >  >   11. A pre thought out and practiced responce plan to different types >   of threats.  >   11a You should know and have practiced with your crew what to do when >   boarded at night in a populated harbor by someone with a knife or >   (someones) with knifes. Stay locked up in your steel vault :) sound >   alarm set off strobe spray with mace etc.. not lethal is addequet. >  >   11b. What you do when boarded by someone with a saturday night special >   pistol (cheap low caliber pistol that most likely wont penitrate your >   steel hull.) do 11a and then posibly use bang stick or flare gun if >   they start shooting. maybe pre-empt them and shoot first..  >  >   11c what to do when boarded by persons with military weapons. unless >   your a serious bad ass with training just surrender and pray. Bad ass >   is probably going to get hurt anyways unless he is able to overwhelm >   them very quickly. >  >   11d What to do when being closed on by a boat with no military >   weapons.. you have a multi ton steel boat.. it is a weapon in its own >   right you can ram. fire shot gun in air over their heads.. make sure >   your not standing in open as they might have guns they haven't shown  >   yet. but try to scare them away. if none of that works buck shot into >   the people and try to blow holes in water line. >  >   11e Being pursued by a boat with a 50 caliber rifle mounted... >   surender!! They can shoot you from as far as they can see you and it >   will make holes the size of dinner plates going into and out the other >   side of  your steel boat. >  >   my point is that you need to think about and have a plan that everyone >   on your boat knows for different situations and you should practice >   them just like you do or should do man overboard drills. you can have >   all the deterents on board i have listed above and if you aren't >   comfortable using them the bad guys will glady take them away from you >   and then use them on you and their next victim. >  >   All this applies to living in your house much less on a boat. If you >   have self defense devices in your house to protect your family you >   need to practice with them and also have your family trained to >   respond to break in situations. >  >   scott >  >  >  >  >   To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com >   To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com  >  >  >  > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >   YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS  >  >     a..  Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web. >        >     b..  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >      origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com >        >     c..  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.  >  >  > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >  >  >  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > |
9097|8945|2005-10-10 15:16:26|seeratlas|Re: Hatches and door ideas|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "edward_stoneuk" <tedstone@g...> wrote:  > > >  > There was a programme on the TV recently about the US Navy, I think,  > training dolphins for military purposes. This gave me an idea for  > taking the ultimate sanction to the other vessel, my recommendation  > would be a highly trained kamikaze or suicide bomber parrot that  > would fly to the enemy captain landing on his shoulder before  > pulling his ripcord. >  > > Regards, > Ted >   hehehe Ted,  I once proposed to the powers that be that we could do urban assassinations effectively using nothing more than  a couple of hundred dollar remote controlled model airplanes filled with c4 and a radio controlled detonator. Some of my ordnance guys even built a couple to test and demo.  When flown into the plate glass window of the average corner office, the results were impressive. Talk about ship to ship ordnance LOL.  Maybe even have it fly one of those little trailing advertising banners :) something on the order of "LIGHTS OUT!!"  :)  seer|
9098|9013|2005-10-10 15:20:28|seeratlas|Re: Advanced Tactical Weaponry for the Sailor !!!|lol seer  --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III" <ben_azo@h...> wrote: > > I just found an interesting Link in Links : > http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/sailor570/pwchelp.htm > hehehe , some fine pics in there . > where will it all end ?? >  > Old Ben :-) > |
9099|8945|2005-10-10 15:55:09|seeratlas|Re: Hatches and door ideas|no doubt lol. I guess I should point out in the interest of full disclosure that my bow is a straight recurve. :) seer   --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Jerry Scovel <stcfarms@n...> wrote: > > I guess growing up on a dairy farm was good for something, it made me as > strong as an ox. >  >  > on 10/7/05 5:17 PM, Carl Volkwein at carlvolkwein@y... wrote: >  >  >  > Jerry Scovel <stcfarms@n...> wrote: > I do not know about an elephant but it will stop a black bear, or go clean > through a bad guy wearing a bulletproof vest. >  > on 10/3/05 6:43 PM, seeratlas at seeratlas@y... wrote: >  > Damn jerry 125# will do an elephant, easy LOL. > I shake like a 15 year old on his first date trying to pull 101. > seer >  > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Jerry Scovel <stcfarms@n...> wrote: > > I am content to use a 125# bow, deer arrows and a 15" bowie knife, > they are > > legal nearly everywhere very effective. > >  > >  > > on 10/3/05 3:26 PM, edward_stoneuk at tedstone@g... wrote: > >  > > Jerry, > > I used the cases as an example, perhaps not very good ones of how one > > can be brave and armed but still not prevail. > >  > > The following web site will give more details of piracy and you can > > google for others. > > http://www.imo.org/Newsroom/contents.asp?topic_id=67&doc_id=1060 > >  > > I agree with much of what Seer says, but personally have not > > considered carrying arms.  This may well reflect the fact that hand > > guns are illegal in the UK although I used to own a licenced 12 bore > > shotgun.  I have heard of doubtfull characters made peacable by the > > giving of a carton of Marlboro and some cans of soft drink.  Each > > situation is different and our reaction different.  The world is > > becoming a much more desparate place though. > >  > > Although I have not heard of one before I am fairly sure that a bang > > stick would be regarded as an offensive weapon and therefore be > > illegal in the UK. > >  > > Regards, > > Ted  > >  > >  > > How bought some of those little sky rocks, or whatever theyre called. They > used to be sold in water proof packs of three, they weren't shotgun shells > or anything, they looked kinda like a party noise maker, but had a red arial > flare, no parachute, just a star shell. >  >   I don't think even the U.K. would object to that. >  >                             Carl Volkwein. >  >  > >  > >  > >  > > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > >  > >  Visit your group "origamiboats > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats> > > " on the web.  > >   > >  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > >  origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe> > >   > >  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service > > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> . > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >  >  >  >  > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com >  >  >  >  >  >  > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS >  > Visit your group "origamiboats <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats> > " on the web.  >  > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe> >  > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> . >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >  >  >  > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com >  >  >  >  > --------------------------------- > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS >  >  >    Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web. >   >    To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com >   >    Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. >  >  > --------------------------------- >  >  >  >  > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com >  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >  >  >  > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com >  >  >  >  >  > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS >  >  Visit your group "origamiboats <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats> > " on the web.  >   >  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >  origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe> >   >  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> . >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > |
9100|8945|2005-10-10 17:09:45|Jerry Scovel|Re: Hatches and door ideas|Mine is a longbow, not a good weapon in a cramped cabin.   on 10/10/05 2:55 PM, seeratlas at seeratlas@... wrote:  no doubt lol. I guess I should point out in the interest of full disclosure that my bow is a straight recurve. :) seer   --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Jerry Scovel <stcfarms@n...> wrote: > > I guess growing up on a dairy farm was good for something, it made me as > strong as an ox. >  >  > on 10/7/05 5:17 PM, Carl Volkwein at carlvolkwein@y... wrote: >  >  >  > Jerry Scovel <stcfarms@n...> wrote: > I do not know about an elephant but it will stop a black bear, or go clean > through a bad guy wearing a bulletproof vest. >  > on 10/3/05 6:43 PM, seeratlas at seeratlas@y... wrote: >  > Damn jerry 125# will do an elephant, easy LOL. > I shake like a 15 year old on his first date trying to pull 101. > seer >  > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Jerry Scovel <stcfarms@n...> wrote: > > I am content to use a 125# bow, deer arrows and a 15" bowie knife, > they are > > legal nearly everywhere very effective. > >  > >  > > on 10/3/05 3:26 PM, edward_stoneuk at tedstone@g... wrote: > >  > > Jerry, > > I used the cases as an example, perhaps not very good ones of how one > > can be brave and armed but still not prevail. > >  > > The following web site will give more details of piracy and you can > > google for others. > > http://www.imo.org/Newsroom/contents.asp?topic_id=67&doc_id=1060 > >  > > I agree with much of what Seer says, but personally have not > > considered carrying arms.  This may well reflect the fact that hand > > guns are illegal in the UK although I used to own a licenced 12 bore > > shotgun.  I have heard of doubtfull characters made peacable by the > > giving of a carton of Marlboro and some cans of soft drink.  Each > > situation is different and our reaction different.  The world is > > becoming a much more desparate place though. > >  > > Although I have not heard of one before I am fairly sure that a bang > > stick would be regarded as an offensive weapon and therefore be > > illegal in the UK. > >  > > Regards, > > Ted  > >  > >  > > How bought some of those little sky rocks, or whatever theyre called. They > used to be sold in water proof packs of three, they weren't shotgun shells > or anything, they looked kinda like a party noise maker, but had a red arial > flare, no parachute, just a star shell. >  >   I don't think even the U.K. would object to that. >  >                             Carl Volkwein. >  >  > >  > >  > >  > > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > >  > >  Visit your group "origamiboats > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats> > > " on the web.  > >   > >  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > >  origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe> > >   > >  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service > > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> . > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >  >  >  >  > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com >  >  >  >  >  >  > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS >  > Visit your group "origamiboats <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats> > " on the web.  >  > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe> >  > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> . >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >  >  >  > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com >  >  >  >  > --------------------------------- > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS >  >  >    Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web. >   >    To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com >   >    Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. >  >  > --------------------------------- >  >  >  >  > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam?  Yahoo! 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Terms of Service > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> . >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >       To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com    SPONSORED LINKS         British columbia canada <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=British+columbia+canada&w1=British+colu mbia+canada&w2=Vancouver+island&w3=Yacht&c=3&s=62&.sig=Q4lYYtlNW0FQO44ezC2G3 Q> Vancouver island <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Vancouver+island&w1=British+columbia+ca nada&w2=Vancouver+island&w3=Yacht&c=3&s=62&.sig=TVvK0pZk9dkmygRA0hegNw> Yacht  <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Yacht&w1=British+columbia+canada&w2=Van couver+island&w3=Yacht&c=3&s=62&.sig=lCcJSZ2V25esT9G6EcjB6g>    YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS   Visit your group "origamiboats <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats> " on the web.     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9101|9101|2005-10-10 22:15:38|Jim Ragsdale|Chain fall/Chain Hoist/come along|What capacity chain fall are you guys using to fold the hulls?|
9102|9102|2005-10-11 05:14:27|Gerd|The wildest ever building project...|I just happened to come upon this great story  http://www.mayaparadise.com/stories/that/thatindex.htm  After reading this, who are we to complain about our little building  difficulties ???! ;-)   Gerd The Yago project at http://www.justmueller.com/boats/|
9103|9091|2005-10-11 11:55:25|WSD Binns|Re: SZTRANDEK 4.9M (Ragnar Danneskold)|>JW: Where do you plan to build or where would you like to build.  I   have a 3 acre spread just outside of Panama City, FL and might be able  to let you use some of it. Jerry Walker  -WSDB: Miami-Dade/Monroe Counties. Panama City, Florida is a little too  far North for my liking and comfort. But if the same offer were made  down here, I'd take you up on it. It's just that I don't like the  penitentiaries and prison areas near around Tallahassee. I'm doing this  boat-building to ESCAPE FROM AMERICA. Call me "snake"!|
9104|9104|2005-10-11 12:50:36|WSD Binns|7. On The Worst-Case Scenario.|In the event that I am not able to leave the United States of America permanently (forever and for good), if my flight from this country meets with resistance too powerful to overcome and U.S. HOMELAND SECURITY decides that it's in the nation's best interest to lock me away in another FEMA-CAMP, QUARANTINE and PRISON-WITHOUT-WALLS for the rest of my life, I have decided that a "rational suicide" is the only way to defeat this BEAST SYSTEM'S plan for my life -- it is the only way I can win. (I will need a camcorder. Any donations?)  Leonard Peikoff once told me at an OBJECTIVIST CONFERENCE that such an action would be logical: "Suicide is justified when man's life, owing to circumstances outside of a person's control, is no longer possible..."  ...[A]n example might be a person with a painful terminal illness, or a prisoner in a concentration camp who sees no chance of escape. In cases such as these, suicide is not necessarily a philosophic rejection of life or of reality. On the contrary, it may very well be their tragic reaffirmation. Self-destruction in such contexts may amount to the tortured cry: "Man's life means so much to me that I will not settle for anything less. I will not accept a living death as a substitute." (OTPOAR, pg. 247-248)  To be truthful, in essence, my life has meant periods of SOLITARY CONFINEMENT (less than 30 minutes in the "exercise yard" for every 24 hours under psychologically-enforced "lock-down") and WORK-RELEASE and RE-EDUCATION classes where I am being conditioned for a "sexual- orientation change" -- i.e. male prostitute and prison bitch!!  I would say that, "Life as a MAN is so important to me that I would not accept cock-sucking and ass-fucking as my fate or as a substitute." I reject derelict RE-INDOCTRINATION: "I plan to have a woman for a wife and I really don't care if she used to be a whore -- or still is!" (Elba Julissa Hernandez, will you marry me?)  It doesn't matter if I must continue to live alone.  And all I keep hearing is, "It is in society's best interest to change your sexual orientation in order to safeguard our nation's most precious resource!"  The worst-case scenario is this: "When the current political situation gets to the point where I must flee the United States of America... but can't, I'll put my .380 hand-gun to my temple and end my life knowing what could have been possible for me in the United States of America: DEATH-ROW-INMATE-PSYCHO-WARD-PRISON-BITCH-FEDERAL- CASE-STUDY!!!"|
9105|9105|2005-10-11 13:39:24|tomjlee2000|Title of B.C. teacher's book Re:origami vessel's voyaging|Am seeking title of recently published book           of a retired B.C. teacher's origami vessel's           voyaging. Any response to origami appreciated            appreciated.                   ----"Gracias"---KIS|
9106|9091|2005-10-11 13:52:50|Jerry Scovel|Re: SZTRANDEK 4.9M (Ragnar Danneskold)|Escape America by boat? Here is a group tailor made for you.  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/libertarianisland/   on 10/11/05 10:55 AM, WSD Binns at wsduncanb@... wrote:   >JW: Where do you plan to build or where would you like to build.  I  have a 3 acre spread just outside of Panama City, FL and might be able to let you use some of it. Jerry Walker  -WSDB: Miami-Dade/Monroe Counties. Panama City, Florida is a little too far North for my liking and comfort. But if the same offer were made down here, I'd take you up on it. It's just that I don't like the penitentiaries and prison areas near around Tallahassee. I'm doing this boat-building to ESCAPE FROM AMERICA. Call me "snake"!       To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com      YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS   Visit your group "origamiboats <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats> " on the web.     To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:  origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <mailto:origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>    Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]|
9107|9105|2005-10-11 15:22:11|Alex Christie|Re: Title of B.C. teacher's book Re:origami vessel's voyaging|I think the title is "Around the world in Viski" by Don Shore?  Brent  lent me his copy and I have read it.  It is self-published. If this is  the title you seek, email me and I will try to find out more about it.  Alex    On 11-Oct-05, at 10:39 AM, tomjlee2000 wrote:  > > > >                  >           Am seeking title of recently published book > >           of a retired B.C. teacher's origami vessel's > >           voyaging. Any response to origami appreciated > >           appreciated. > >                   ----"Gracias"---KIS > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com >  To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:  > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > 	▪ 	 Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web. >   > 	▪ 	 To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >  origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com >   > 	▪ 	 Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of  > Service. > >   [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
9108|9101|2005-10-11 16:55:17|brentswain38|Re: Chain fall/Chain Hoist/come along|one ton comealong is good, but the bigger the better. If you rent one  get the bigest as the difference on rental price is minimal. You only  need the big one for a day or two. Brent   --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Jim Ragsdale <echo6@c...> wrote: > > What capacity chain fall are you guys using to fold the hulls? > |
9109|9101|2005-10-11 16:56:49|Alex Christie|Re: Chain fall/Chain Hoist/come along|I think the wire comealong we had was 1.5 ton pull, the chain one  (rental) was 3 ton.  Alex   On 11-Oct-05, at 1:53 PM, brentswain38 wrote:  > one ton comealong is good, but the bigger the better. If you rent one >  get the bigest as the difference on rental price is minimal. You only >  need the big one for a day or two.   [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
9110|9105|2005-10-11 17:17:39|kingsknight4life|Title of B.C. teacher's book Re:origami vessel's voyaging|Ithink alexis right. I saw this book for sale at the harbour  chandlers, in nanaimo. Rowland --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Alex Christie <achristie@s...>  wrote:  > > I think the title is "Around the world in Viski" by Don Shore?  ..  >  > On 11-Oct-05, at 10:39 AM, tomjlee2000 wrote: >  > > > > > > > >                  > >           Am seeking title of recently published book > > > >           of a retired B.C. teacher's origami vessel's > > > >           voyaging. Any response to origami appreciated > > > >           appreciated. > > > >                   ----"Gracias"---KIS > > > |
9111|8980|2005-10-11 23:12:17|gschnell|Re: It's Happening!!!!!!!|Brent Finishing up cable runs to the radar arch and the anchor winch. I'll add a couple of stub bulkheads and firing strips and then it's time to foam.  Drop in for a visit. Always good to see you. Gord   brentswain38 wrote:   >  Gord > How far along are you? > Brent > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, gschnell <gschnell@s...> wrote: > > Right on, Shane. Gonna miss you here in Vancouver. Another reason > to get > > this thing finsihed and in the water. > > Gord > > > > > > SHANE ROTHWELL wrote: > > > > >  Hey guys, > > > > > > Sold the house last night! > > > > > > Moving to the Island & have to look after boring > > > necessities like a house etc first but am now in the > > > market for a 36'-40' Swain. > > > > > > Part of me says buy plate get going. Part of me says > > > buy an existing hull & finnish it off. Either way > > > guys, I'm looking. > > > > > > Will be looking at all options on houses & boats from > > > Ladysmith to Courtenay. > > > > > > Other than Alex, who else is building or has a > > > finnished 36-40' Brentboat that would be amenable to > > > me dropping in to have a look-see on the east coast of > > > the island? > > > > > > Bye the bye, also found a deal on moving boats. The > > > bloke is based in the lower mainland, but they are on > > > the island coupla times a week. claims he can move > > > boats cheaper on the island than the locals who charge > > > heaps. it's Bear Crane, blokes name is Bear > > > 604-250-5777. > > > > > > Cheers, > > > Shane > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________________ > > > Find your next car at http://autos.yahoo.ca > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > > > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > > ----- > > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > > > > >    +  Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web. > > > > > >    +  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > >       origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > > >    +  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > > >      Service. > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > > ----- > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > SPONSORED LINKS >      British columbia canada       Vancouver island      Yacht   > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > >    +  Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web. > >    +  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >       origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > >    +  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of >      Service. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- >    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]|
9112|9042|2005-10-11 23:34:21|gschnell|Re: Dry Exhaust Flexibility|I am using the "spiral wound" SS flex tube wrapped in Exhaust Wrap (woven glass insulation). I haven't tested it...but if you don't hear from me...don't use it. eh eh eh! Gord   edward_stoneuk wrote:   >  John, > Do you mean the spiral wound flexible pipe?  I had thought about that > but was concerned about how gas tight it might be inside the hull.  I > don't want to gas ourselves. > Regards, > Ted > > > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > SPONSORED LINKS >      British columbia canada       Vancouver island      Yacht   > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > >    +  Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web. > >    +  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >       origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > >    +  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of >      Service. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- >    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]|
9113|9113|2005-10-12 04:41:57|Alex|Swain 36 for sale in Victoria|Whenever there is an origami boat that hits the market for sale I would like to showcase it  here on the group, so now the cover photo now shows Gary Prebble's 36 foot twin keeler  for sale in Victoria.  I made a short film of the launching of this vessel back in December,  and long before it was launched I had chance to see it as a bare hull, as well as being  fitted out.  She's a nice boat.  Gary can be reached at greenguy2ca@... for further  details.  I'll be going down to Victoria soon to do some filming of the boat for my "Intro to  the World of Origamiboats" film and when I get back I will get some stills to post here for  those who are interested in his boat.   Alex|
9114|9104|2005-10-12 10:53:44|Jerry walker|Re: 7. On The Worst-Case Scenario.|Forget about my offer by private message to use my property in Florida.  You  obviously suffer from some form of dementia and I suspect that you are not  really interested is building an origami boat. Jerry    >From: "WSD Binns" <wsduncanb@...> >Reply-To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com >To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com >Subject: [origamiboats] 7. On The Worst-Case Scenario. >Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 16:50:02 -0000 > >In the event that I am not able to leave the United States of America >permanently (forever and for good), if my flight from this country >meets with resistance too powerful to overcome and U.S. HOMELAND >SECURITY decides that it's in the nation's best interest to lock me >away in another FEMA-CAMP, QUARANTINE and PRISON-WITHOUT-WALLS for >the rest of my life, I have decided that a "rational suicide" is the >only way to defeat this BEAST SYSTEM'S plan for my life -- it is the >only way I can win. (I will need a camcorder. Any donations?) > >Leonard Peikoff once told me at an OBJECTIVIST CONFERENCE that such >an action would be logical: "Suicide is justified when man's life, >owing to circumstances outside of a person's control, is no longer >possible..." > >...[A]n example might be a person with a painful terminal illness, or >a prisoner in a concentration camp who sees no chance of escape. In >cases such as these, suicide is not necessarily a philosophic >rejection of life or of reality. On the contrary, it may very well be >their tragic reaffirmation. Self-destruction in such contexts may >amount to the tortured cry: "Man's life means so much to me that I >will not settle for anything less. I will not accept a living death >as a substitute." (OTPOAR, pg. 247-248) > >To be truthful, in essence, my life has meant periods of SOLITARY >CONFINEMENT (less than 30 minutes in the "exercise yard" for every 24 >hours under psychologically-enforced "lock-down") and WORK-RELEASE >and RE-EDUCATION classes where I am being conditioned for a "sexual- >orientation change" -- i.e. male prostitute and prison bitch!! > >I would say that, "Life as a MAN is so important to me that I would >not accept cock-sucking and ass-fucking as my fate or as a >substitute." I reject derelict RE-INDOCTRINATION: "I plan to have a >woman for a wife and I really don't care if she used to be a whore -- >or still is!" (Elba Julissa Hernandez, will you marry me?) > >It doesn't matter if I must continue to live alone. > >And all I keep hearing is, "It is in society's best interest to >change your sexual orientation in order to safeguard our nation's >most precious resource!" > >The worst-case scenario is this: "When the current political >situation gets to the point where I must flee the United States of >America... but can't, I'll put my .380 hand-gun to my temple and end >my life knowing what could have been possible for me in the United >States of America: DEATH-ROW-INMATE-PSYCHO-WARD-PRISON-BITCH-FEDERAL- >CASE-STUDY!!!" > > > |
9115|8945|2005-10-12 11:57:19|Michael Casling|Re: Bank Sticks and other means of self defense|I knew the the US played rugby, I slipped in my statement to see if anyone was paying attention. Well done. We may need to discuss the quality of the Eagles game to see if it really does qualify as rugby, at least at the international level. Some X commie countries like Romania are playing quite well. The only connectioon to boating I can find is that in NZ and Ozz the rugby players can provide the muscle power when required. I look forward to the day when all inter country conflicts ( battles ) can be settled on the water or on the field via sailing or rugby. I may not live long enough. Rugby works well for France, Argentina, Ozz, NZ, South Africa, England Ireland Scotland and Wales, many South Pacific Island Nations and now many X commie countries. Darn and I missed out the US and Canada, and Japan.  Michael    ----- Original Message -----    From: seeratlas    To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com    Sent: Monday, October 10, 2005 12:04 PM   Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Bank Sticks and other means of self defense     LOL :) While rugby is indeed a tough sport, the 'sport' of kings   remains the toughest of them all, and, if I remember correctly, the   Aussies play some pretty rowdy rugby...and aren't entirely harmless in   the king's sport either. Oh, and they do play Rugby in the US, its   just that most of us have come to realize that helmets, and a few   strategically placed pads not to mention a stout cup, are useful in   ensuring that one lives to play, relatively completely functional,   another day :).    seer    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
9116|9101|2005-10-12 13:58:57|edward_stoneuk|Re: Chain fall/Chain Hoist/come along|Jim, I used a ½ ton and a 1 ton chain hoist and two wire comelongs the  latter two which I spent a lot of time repairing.  I also used a  couple of ratchet tie down webbing straps for the cabin roof and the  like, although they don't like to much heat. A hoist or comelong  bigger than 1 ton would have been better. Regards, Ted|
9117|8945|2005-10-12 14:14:29|Jerry Scovel|Re: Bank Sticks and other means of self defense|In the american indian world Ga-lahs (Lacrosse) was played with the severed heads of ones enemies. From the stories passed down by my great grandfather I find it difficult to call rugby a tough game.   From: seeratlas   To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com  Sent: Monday, October 10, 2005 12:04 PM  Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Bank Sticks and other means of self defense    LOL :) While rugby is indeed a tough sport, the 'sport' of kings  remains the toughest of them all, and, if I remember correctly, the  Aussies play some pretty rowdy rugby...and aren't entirely harmless in  the king's sport either. Oh, and they do play Rugby in the US, its  just that most of us have come to realize that helmets, and a few  strategically placed pads not to mention a stout cup, are useful in  ensuring that one lives to play, relatively completely functional,  another day :).   seer      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]|
9118|8945|2005-10-12 15:13:53|Bill Jaine|Re: Bank Sticks and other means of self defense|I read the other day that �try� in rugger comes from the old days when the only points that could be scored came from kicking the ball over the uprights and to qualify for the right to �TRY� to kick was that the ball had to cross over the line and be touched down. Just getting a touchdown scored no points.     Bill   Port Hope. Canada     -----Original Message----- From: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com [mailto:origamiboats@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Michael Casling Sent: 12-Oct-05 11:57 AM To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [origamiboats] Re: Bank Sticks and other means of self defense     I knew the the US played rugby, I slipped in my statement to see if anyone was paying attention. Well done. We may need to discuss the quality of the Eagles game to see if it really does qualify as rugby, at least at the international level. Some X commie countries like Romania are playing quite well. The only connectioon to boating I can find is that in NZ and Ozz the rugby players can provide the muscle power when required. I look forward to the day when all inter country conflicts ( battles ) can be settled on the water or on the field via sailing or rugby. I may not live long enough. Rugby works well for France, Argentina, Ozz, NZ, South Africa, England Ireland Scotland and Wales, many South Pacific Island Nations and now many X commie countries. Darn and I missed out the US and Canada, and Japan.  Michael    ----- Original Message -----    From: seeratlas    To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com    Sent: Monday, October 10, 2005 12:04 PM   Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Bank Sticks and other means of self defense     LOL :) While rugby is indeed a tough sport, the 'sport' of kings   remains the toughest of them all, and, if I remember correctly, the   Aussies play some pretty rowdy rugby...and aren't entirely harmless in   the king's sport either. Oh, and they do play Rugby in the US, its   just that most of us have come to realize that helmets, and a few   strategically placed pads not to mention a stout cup, are useful in   ensuring that one lives to play, relatively completely functional,   another day :).    seer    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]    To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com         _____    YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS      *         Visit your group "HYPERLINK "http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats"origamiboats" on the web.     *         To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:  HYPERLINK "mailto:origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe"origami boats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com     *         Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the HYPERLINK "http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/"Yahoo! Terms of Service.         _____     -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.14/130 - Release Date: 12/10/2005    --  No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.14/130 - Release Date: 12/10/2005     [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
9119|9104|2005-10-12 15:45:05|WSD Binns|Hmmfff...Lethargy.|>Jerry: Forget about my offer by private message to use my property for   gay sex in Florida. You obviously suffer from some form of christian  dementia and I suspect that you are not really interested is building  an origami orgy boat.  -WSDB: I do suffer from the chief ailment of the CAPTIVE PERSONALITY  which is senility brought about through chronic hermeticistic atheism  and arrested heterosexuality. I never wanted sex on your ranch, and  origami boats are imaginary fetishes, anyway!|
9120|8945|2005-10-12 17:22:27|Michael Casling|Re: Bank Sticks and other means of self defense|Sounds as if no one in your family played a game of rugby against a bunch of farm boys from NZ.  Michael     ----- Original Message -----    From: Jerry Scovel    To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com    Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2005 11:14 AM   Subject: Re: [origamiboats] Re: Bank Sticks and other means of self defense     In the american indian world Ga-lahs (Lacrosse) was played with the severed   heads of ones enemies. From the stories passed down by my great grandfather   I find it difficult to call rugby a tough game.    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
9121|8945|2005-10-12 17:24:01|Michael Casling|Re: Bank Sticks and other means of self defense|It was three points for a try ( touchdown ) and two points for a conversion,  and three points for a penalty or drop kicked goal for a long time, and then  they gave five points for a try.  Michael   ----- Original Message -----  From: "Bill Jaine" <anacapa@...> To: <origamiboats@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2005 12:11 PM Subject: RE: [origamiboats] Re: Bank Sticks and other means of self defense   I read the other day that "try" in rugger comes from the old days when the only points that could be scored came from kicking the ball over the uprights and to qualify for the right to "TRY" to kick was that the ball had to cross over the line and be touched down. Just getting a touchdown scored no points.    Bill  Port Hope. Canada    -----Original Message----- From: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com [mailto:origamiboats@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Michael Casling Sent: 12-Oct-05 11:57 AM To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [origamiboats] Re: Bank Sticks and other means of self defense    I knew the the US played rugby, I slipped in my statement to see if anyone was paying attention. Well done. We may need to discuss the quality of the Eagles game to see if it really does qualify as rugby, at least at the international level. Some X commie countries like Romania are playing quite well. The only connectioon to boating I can find is that in NZ and Ozz the rugby players can provide the muscle power when required. I look forward to the day when all inter country conflicts ( battles ) can be settled on the water or on the field via sailing or rugby. I may not live long enough. Rugby works well for France, Argentina, Ozz, NZ, South Africa, England Ireland Scotland and Wales, many South Pacific Island Nations and now many X commie countries. Darn and I missed out the US and Canada, and Japan.  Michael   ----- Original Message -----    From: seeratlas   To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com   Sent: Monday, October 10, 2005 12:04 PM   Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Bank Sticks and other means of self defense     LOL :) While rugby is indeed a tough sport, the 'sport' of kings   remains the toughest of them all, and, if I remember correctly, the   Aussies play some pretty rowdy rugby...and aren't entirely harmless in   the king's sport either. Oh, and they do play Rugby in the US, its   just that most of us have come to realize that helmets, and a few   strategically placed pads not to mention a stout cup, are useful in   ensuring that one lives to play, relatively completely functional,   another day :).    seer    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]    To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com        _____  YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS    *         Visit your group "HYPERLINK "http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats"origamiboats" on the web.   *         To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:  HYPERLINK "mailto:origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe"origami boats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com   *         Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the HYPERLINK "http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/"Yahoo! Terms of Service.       _____   -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.14/130 - Release Date: 12/10/2005    --  No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.14/130 - Release Date: 12/10/2005    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]     To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:  origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links |
9122|9104|2005-10-12 17:26:17|cirejay|Re: Hmmfff...Lethargy.|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "WSD Binns" <wsduncanb@h...> wrote:   > >Jerry: Forget about my offer by private message to use my property   for   > gay sex in Florida. You obviously suffer from some form of christian  > dementia and I suspect that you are not really interested is building  > an origami orgy boat. >  > -WSDB: I do suffer from the chief ailment of the CAPTIVE PERSONALITY  > which is senility brought about through chronic hermeticistic atheism  > and arrested heterosexuality. I never wanted sex on your ranch, and  > origami boats are imaginary fetishes, anyway!   LOL|
9123|8945|2005-10-12 17:45:42|Jerry Scovel|Re: Bank Sticks and other means of self defense|This is true. I have been to NZ twice, the next time that I go I will stay there.   on 10/12/05 4:22 PM, Michael Casling at casling@... wrote:  Sounds as if no one in your family played a game of rugby against a bunch of farm boys from NZ.  Michael    ----- Original Message -----  From: Jerry Scovel  To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com  Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2005 11:14 AM  Subject: Re: [origamiboats] Re: Bank Sticks and other means of self defense    In the american indian world Ga-lahs (Lacrosse) was played with the severed  heads of ones enemies. From the stories passed down by my great grandfather  I find it difficult to call rugby a tough game.    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]    To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com    SPONSORED LINKS         British columbia canada <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=British+columbia+canada&w1=British+colu mbia+canada&w2=Vancouver+island&w3=Yacht&w4=Victoria+bc&c=4&s=79&.sig=9R67WC gMr5OvBLa-xHHyGA> Vancouver island <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Vancouver+island&w1=British+columbia+ca nada&w2=Vancouver+island&w3=Yacht&w4=Victoria+bc&c=4&s=79&.sig=yL5WOtgPnpYAm d1P5N16cw> Yacht  <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Yacht&w1=British+columbia+canada&w2=Van couver+island&w3=Yacht&w4=Victoria+bc&c=4&s=79&.sig=VvQDFUjkrcc6EJ4xXP0vjg> Victoria bc  <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Victoria+bc&w1=British+columbia+canada& w2=Vancouver+island&w3=Yacht&w4=Victoria+bc&c=4&s=79&.sig=QTHu1FWCcMWsTCz7vG yGdg>          YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS   Visit your group "origamiboats <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats> " on the web.     To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:  origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <mailto:origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>    Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
9124|9104|2005-10-12 17:50:18|brentswain38|Re: Hmmfff...Lethargy.|Lets stick to the topic. For other issues , start your own website, or  find one. Brent    --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "WSD Binns" <wsduncanb@h...> wrote: > > >Jerry: Forget about my offer by private message to use my property  for  > gay sex in Florida. You obviously suffer from some form of christian  > dementia and I suspect that you are not really interested is building  > an origami orgy boat. >  > -WSDB: I do suffer from the chief ailment of the CAPTIVE PERSONALITY  > which is senility brought about through chronic hermeticistic atheism  > and arrested heterosexuality. I never wanted sex on your ranch, and  > origami boats are imaginary fetishes, anyway! > |
9125|9104|2005-10-12 17:52:05|brentswain38|Re: 7. On The Worst-Case Scenario.|Alex  Is there any way you can delete this crap? Brent   - In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "WSD Binns" <wsduncanb@h...> wrote:  > > In the event that I am not able to leave the United States of   America  > permanently (forever and for good), if my flight from this country > meets with resistance too powerful to overcome and U.S. HOMELAND > SECURITY decides that it's in the nation's best interest to lock me > away in another FEMA-CAMP, QUARANTINE and PRISON-WITHOUT-WALLS for > the rest of my life, I have decided that a "rational suicide" is the > only way to defeat this BEAST SYSTEM'S plan for my life -- it is the > only way I can win. (I will need a camcorder. Any donations?) >  > Leonard Peikoff once told me at an OBJECTIVIST CONFERENCE that such > an action would be logical: "Suicide is justified when man's life, > owing to circumstances outside of a person's control, is no longer > possible..." >  > ...[A]n example might be a person with a painful terminal illness,   or  > a prisoner in a concentration camp who sees no chance of escape. In > cases such as these, suicide is not necessarily a philosophic > rejection of life or of reality. On the contrary, it may very well   be  > their tragic reaffirmation. Self-destruction in such contexts may > amount to the tortured cry: "Man's life means so much to me that I > will not settle for anything less. I will not accept a living death > as a substitute." (OTPOAR, pg. 247-248) >  > To be truthful, in essence, my life has meant periods of SOLITARY > CONFINEMENT (less than 30 minutes in the "exercise yard" for every   24  > hours under psychologically-enforced "lock-down") and WORK-RELEASE > and RE-EDUCATION classes where I am being conditioned for a "sexual- > orientation change" -- i.e. male prostitute and prison bitch!! >  > I would say that, "Life as a MAN is so important to me that I would > not accept cock-sucking and ass-fucking as my fate or as a > substitute." I reject derelict RE-INDOCTRINATION: "I plan to have a > woman for a wife and I really don't care if she used to be a whore -  -  > or still is!" (Elba Julissa Hernandez, will you marry me?) >  > It doesn't matter if I must continue to live alone. >  > And all I keep hearing is, "It is in society's best interest to > change your sexual orientation in order to safeguard our nation's > most precious resource!" >  > The worst-case scenario is this: "When the current political > situation gets to the point where I must flee the United States of > America... but can't, I'll put my .380 hand-gun to my temple and end > my life knowing what could have been possible for me in the United > States of America: DEATH-ROW-INMATE-PSYCHO-WARD-PRISON-BITCH-  FEDERAL-  > CASE-STUDY!!!" > |
9126|9101|2005-10-12 17:56:24|brentswain38|Re: Chain fall/Chain Hoist/come along|As I mention in my book, wire comealongs may as well be considered  disposable. Weld the shit out of the  bolts so thay don't undo  themselves and come apart under load. Brent  --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "edward_stoneuk" <tedstone@g...>  wrote:  > > Jim, > I used a ½ ton and a 1 ton chain hoist and two wire comelongs the  > latter two which I spent a lot of time repairing.  I also used a  > couple of ratchet tie down webbing straps for the cabin roof and the  > like, although they don't like to much heat. A hoist or comelong  > bigger than 1 ton would have been better. > Regards, > Ted > |
9127|9104|2005-10-12 18:55:15|..|7. On The Worst-Case Scenario.|Is this relevant to Origami boat building? This appears to be OT Geoff ===========================================================================  >In the event that I am not able to leave the United States of America  permanently (forever and for good), if my flight from this country meets with resistance too powerful to overcome and U.S. HOMELAND  >SECURITY decides that it's in the nation's best interest to lock me away       --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.859 / Virus Database: 585 - Release Date: 14/02/2005     [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]|
9128|8318|2005-10-12 19:41:40|Carl Volkwein|Re: Testing Batteries|Courtney Thomas <ccthomas@...> wrote: Pardon my ignorance, but what was the purpose of winding the hose "around and around" the case ? I'm afraid I didn't follow what was going on  :-)  Thank you,  Courtney   On Wed, 2005-07-13 at 11:30, seeratlas wrote: > Interesting thought. I suppose you could use sheet plastic of a > suitable formula, perhaps even clear, so you could see what's going on > inside. I have to admit tho, Having never dissected a big battery, I'm > not sure what all is involved. >  > One other point, on the venting and containing spillage issue, I used > to make my own diving lights out of halogen car headlights and > motorcycle batteries. to handle the pressurization and venting/leakage > problems with the motorcycle batteries, I used a length of common > plastic aquarium air pump hose (clear), glued to the vent nipple on mc > battery, and then wound around and around the case much like an old > style pressure tube.  As long as I made sure no one turned on the > lights until UNDER the water, it was amazing how well this outfit > worked. The local lobster population didn't stand a chance :) The only > negative side effect was that so much light was produced that the area > soon was swamped with curious and light drawn sealife, some of it > damned big. >  > I have been thinking of using this same remote tube vent system on my > diesel/electric battery installation to avoid the buildup of > hydrogen/oxygen gas in the bilge/cabin and various places the > batteries will be located, and to prevent leakage during a possible > roll and the sloshing that goes on in a seaway. >  > One last thought on batteries. When you plan your installation, make > sure that each battery is easy to get to for topping off and > inspection, and that they are SECURED solidly.The easier it is to do, > the more it will get done. >  > seer >  >  > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "khooper_fboats" <bighouse@t...> > wrote: > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "T & D CAIN" <thcain@o...> wrote: > > > Without a reliable history, the pig will poke you in the pocket. > > > There are ways and means, but not on the day of the auction, or > the day > > > before that either. > >  > > Well, let me put this question to the group then: what prevents us > > from building our own batteries? I mean, I have to handle seven > > thousand lbs of lead for the ballast anyway, the electrolyte solution > > is available in powder form for cheap, the cases are made from > > commonly available plastic, the technology is primitive and hasn't > > changed much in probably 200 years. > >  > > I could make extremely heavy cases that won't leak even if inverted, > > and could make plates as heavy as I like for the price of the lead, > > and I could customize the size & shape of the batteries to fit the > > available space, just like we expect to do with tankage. > >  > > Why is this not done? I have never seen an account of a person > > building his own marine batteries from components. > >  > > --Hoop > Why not make the case be a removable( not easily) part of the keel, and make it out of some strong kind of plastic, or mabe fiberglass, then years later when the batterys go soure, you just replace the whole keel section?  Carl Volkwein >  >  >  > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com  > Yahoo! Groups Links >  >  >  >   >  >     To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com      --------------------------------- YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS        Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web.        To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:  origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com        Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.    ---------------------------------     		 ---------------------------------  Yahoo! Music Unlimited - Access over 1 million songs. Try it free.  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
9129|9104|2005-10-13 02:28:03|Jon & Wanda(Tink)|Re: 7. On The Worst-Case Scenario.|Would you settal for a inertube lifejacket and a paddle it would get  you from South Florida to Cuba.    ====================================================================== =====  > >In the event that I am not able to leave the United States of   America  > permanently (forever and for good), if my flight from this country > meets with resistance too powerful to overcome and U.S. HOMELAND > >SECURITY decides that it's in the nation's best interest to lock   me away  >  >  >  >  >  > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.859 / Virus Database: 585 - Release Date: 14/02/2005 >  >  >  >  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > |
9130|8945|2005-10-13 08:28:58|Bill Jaine|Re: Bank Sticks and other means of self defense|I think this was even before that Michael, this was very early in the game, might even had been the beginning.  It does explain why a touchdown is called a �Try�.     Bill   Port Hope. Canada     -----Original Message----- From: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com [mailto:origamiboats@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Michael Casling Sent: 12-Oct-05 5:24 PM To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [origamiboats] Re: Bank Sticks and other means of self defense     It was three points for a try ( touchdown ) and two points for a conversion,  and three points for a penalty or drop kicked goal for a long time, and then  they gave five points for a try.  Michael   ----- Original Message -----  From: "Bill Jaine" <anacapa@...> To: <origamiboats@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2005 12:11 PM Subject: RE: [origamiboats] Re: Bank Sticks and other means of self defense   I read the other day that "try" in rugger comes from the old days when the only points that could be scored came from kicking the ball over the uprights and to qualify for the right to "TRY" to kick was that the ball had to cross over the line and be touched down. Just getting a touchdown scored no points.    Bill  Port Hope. Canada    -----Original Message----- From: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com [mailto:origamiboats@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Michael Casling Sent: 12-Oct-05 11:57 AM To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [origamiboats] Re: Bank Sticks and other means of self defense    I knew the the US played rugby, I slipped in my statement to see if anyone was paying attention. Well done. We may need to discuss the quality of the Eagles game to see if it really does qualify as rugby, at least at the international level. Some X commie countries like Romania are playing quite well. The only connectioon to boating I can find is that in NZ and Ozz the rugby players can provide the muscle power when required. I look forward to the day when all inter country conflicts ( battles ) can be settled on the water or on the field via sailing or rugby. I may not live long enough. Rugby works well for France, Argentina, Ozz, NZ, South Africa, England Ireland Scotland and Wales, many South Pacific Island Nations and now many X commie countries. Darn and I missed out the US and Canada, and Japan.  Michael   ----- Original Message -----    From: seeratlas   To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com   Sent: Monday, October 10, 2005 12:04 PM   Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Bank Sticks and other means of self defense     LOL :) While rugby is indeed a tough sport, the 'sport' of kings   remains the toughest of them all, and, if I remember correctly, the   Aussies play some pretty rowdy rugby...and aren't entirely harmless in   the king's sport either. Oh, and they do play Rugby in the US, its   just that most of us have come to realize that helmets, and a few   strategically placed pads not to mention a stout cup, are useful in   ensuring that one lives to play, relatively completely functional,   another day :).    seer    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]    To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com        _____  YAHOO! 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9131|8945|2005-10-13 13:41:40|Paul Cotter|Welding advice again|Hi folks,  I'm slowly getting ready for keel construction for BS26 bilge keeler. I'm planning on using 1-1/2" rod for the leading edge, 3/16" plate for keel sides, and 1/2" plate for the bottom. I've got some scrap of this type that I want to do some testing on before getting into keel construction.  I'm guessing that the rod is going to be a heat sink. Is it often advisable in such instances to preheat the rod with a torch prior to tacking and final weld passes? Would this also be the case at the side-to-bottom weld?  Any hints are greatly appreciated.  Thanks and cheers  Paul|
9132|8945|2005-10-13 14:02:25|Wesley Cox|Re: Welding advice again|You'll probably get many different avenues of advice on this one.  In my  experience, without a doubt, you'll have no problem with the 1/2" plate  to 3/16" plate weld if you make your weld as hot as you would for 1/2"  to 1/2" and keep the heat almost entirely on the 1/2" side as you weld  and just lightly kiss the 3/16" side.   1-1/2" solid round is a considerable heat sink.  The same advice may  apply.  I've never welded quite such a large difference in thicknesses  directly.  If your experiments don't produce favorable results, you  might try an intermediate heat sink welded to the 3/16" plate and then  weld it to the big round.  For instance, weld a piece of 1/2" square to  the edge of the plate then weld the square to the 1-1/2" round.  Paul Cotter wrote:   >Hi folks, > >I'm slowly getting ready for keel construction for BS26 bilge keeler. >I'm planning on using 1-1/2" rod for the leading edge, 3/16" plate for >keel sides, and 1/2" plate for the bottom. I've got some scrap of this >type that I want to do some testing on before getting into keel >construction. > >I'm guessing that the rod is going to be a heat sink. Is it often >advisable in such instances to preheat the rod with a torch prior to >tacking and final weld passes? Would this also be the case at the >side-to-bottom weld? > >Any hints are greatly appreciated. > >Thanks and cheers > >Paul > > > > >To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com >To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com  >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > >  > > > > > >   > |
9133|8945|2005-10-13 14:18:18|brentswain38|Re: Welding advice again|I've never preheated it, just used 1/8th 7024 on the horizontal ,and  5/32 6011 on the uphand welds. Just keep switching from side to side  so you don't warp anything.Make sure the rod isn't oddball stufff.  Try an experimental weld , welding a piece of the side material to  the rod and banging the shit out of it with the sledgehammer. If it's  some exotic material ,the weld will crack easily. If it doesn't, go  ahead and use it.   Make sure the keel isn't twisted , by using a straight edge on the  trailing edge, lining it up by eyeball witht he centr of the rod,  while it is still lightly tacked, before final welding. Brent  --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Cotter" <paulcotter@a...>  wrote:  > > Hi folks, >  > I'm slowly getting ready for keel construction for BS26 bilge   keeler.  > I'm planning on using 1-1/2" rod for the leading edge, 3/16" plate   for  > keel sides, and 1/2" plate for the bottom. I've got some scrap of   this  > type that I want to do some testing on before getting into keel > construction. >  > I'm guessing that the rod is going to be a heat sink. Is it often > advisable in such instances to preheat the rod with a torch prior to > tacking and final weld passes? Would this also be the case at the > side-to-bottom weld? >  > Any hints are greatly appreciated. >  > Thanks and cheers >  > Paul > |
9134|8945|2005-10-13 14:21:24|brentswain38|Re: Welding advice again|It's a good idea to hammer in a spacer of 2 inch pipe on end  just  behind the rod , about halfway down,as soon as you have some good  heavy tacks on ,to prevent it from pulling in there  from the heavy  welding on the leading edge. Brent  --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "brentswain38"  <brentswain38@h...> wrote:  > > I've never preheated it, just used 1/8th 7024 on the   horizontal ,and   > 5/32 6011 on the uphand welds. Just keep switching from side to   side   > so you don't warp anything.Make sure the rod isn't oddball stufff.  > Try an experimental weld , welding a piece of the side material to  > the rod and banging the shit out of it with the sledgehammer. If   it's   > some exotic material ,the weld will crack easily. If it doesn't, go  > ahead and use it.  >  Make sure the keel isn't twisted , by using a straight edge on the  > trailing edge, lining it up by eyeball witht he centr of the rod,  > while it is still lightly tacked, before final welding. > Brent >  > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Cotter"   <paulcotter@a...>   > wrote: > > > > Hi folks, > >  > > I'm slowly getting ready for keel construction for BS26 bilge  > keeler. > > I'm planning on using 1-1/2" rod for the leading edge, 3/16"   plate   > for > > keel sides, and 1/2" plate for the bottom. I've got some scrap of  > this > > type that I want to do some testing on before getting into keel > > construction. > >  > > I'm guessing that the rod is going to be a heat sink. Is it often > > advisable in such instances to preheat the rod with a torch prior   to  > > tacking and final weld passes? Would this also be the case at the > > side-to-bottom weld? > >  > > Any hints are greatly appreciated. > >  > > Thanks and cheers > >  > > Paul > > > |
9135|9135|2005-10-14 04:33:27|Jim Douglas|Wanted Boat Trailer for 37 foot Steel Sailboat|I need to move my steel hulled sail boat from Calgary to the Coast.   Quotes obtained from the boat moving fraturnity of pirates are just  insane.  As such I am looking into the idea of buying a highway  capable boat trailer to move her myself.  She is 37 feet overall with her 4 foot bow sprit and weighs about  10,000 lbs.  She has a beam of 11 feet and stands 11 foot high from  her fin keel to the cabin roof. As I am still in the money saving  mode, my timing is entirely open ended at this point.    Given the "do-it-yourself" nature of this group, I am also wondering  if any of you know where one might get a design or plan to construct  such a trailer myself?   As I intend to convert this boat to a twin  keel configuration, ultimately such a trailer would have to be  desiged with this in mind.    I think that any money I throw at constructing a self built trailer  now, I'll probably recoup later in savings on future moves or when I  eventually sell it, whereas money donated to them boat moving guys  is just simply gone.   Does anyone have any leads or thoughts?  Jim Douglas North Vancouver, B.C.|
9136|9135|2005-10-14 08:50:59|Ray|Re: Wanted Boat Trailer for 37 foot Steel Sailboat|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Jim Douglas"  <conceptconversion@t...> wrote:  > > I need to move my steel hulled sail boat from Calgary to the   Coast.    > Quotes obtained from the boat moving fraturnity of pirates are just  > insane.  As such I am looking into the idea of buying a highway  > capable boat trailer to move her myself. >  > She is 37 feet overall with her 4 foot bow sprit and weighs about  > 10,000 lbs.  She has a beam of 11 feet and stands 11 foot high from  > her fin keel to the cabin roof. As I am still in the money saving  > mode, my timing is entirely open ended at this point.   >  > Given the "do-it-yourself" nature of this group, I am also   wondering   > if any of you know where one might get a design or plan to   construct   > such a trailer myself?   As I intend to convert this boat to a twin  > keel configuration, ultimately such a trailer would have to be  > desiged with this in mind.   >  > I think that any money I throw at constructing a self built trailer  > now, I'll probably recoup later in savings on future moves or when   I   > eventually sell it, whereas money donated to them boat moving guys  > is just simply gone.  >  > Does anyone have any leads or thoughts? >  > Jim Douglas > North Vancouver, B.C. >   Jim -   I would suggest that the cheaper approach would be to determine the  desired characteristics of your trailer, and then look for something  beat-up & used that will come close to suiting your need.  Used ugly  trailers can be had cheaply - check out eBay.   As an example,  we had need of a trailer to haul 5 race bikes from  the east coast to the Bonneville Salt Flats - trailer rental for 3  weeks was over $1500.00 - and a new trailer big enough to do what we  wanted was over $4K. We looked around, and found a 20' beat up  utility flat bed that we bought for $400.00 - and spent two weeks (  about 30 hours ) building a frame and enclosure for it. All in all -  we spent about $1000.00 to build the trailer, and we're still using  it 6 years later.   Hope this helps,   Ray Kimbro - too many hobbies|
9137|9135|2005-10-14 10:07:03|Courtney Thomas|Re: Wanted Boat Trailer for 37 foot Steel Sailboat|Jim,  I went through this hell last year and wound up buying a used 50' [with  extension] trailer for less than the steel would have cost. It's a  Canadian made Aldura with a capacity of about 50,000 lbs but my boat  only weighs about 20,000.  I should add that it requires an overtheroad tractor to pull it but  don't let that intimidate you. If you only use it to haul your own boat  a CDL [commercial driver's license] is not required and insurance is not  too bad. I bought the tractor off Ebay, had never driven one before,  flew up to Minnesota [over 1000 miles] picked it up, drove around the  parking lot awhile and drove 'er home.  I spent quite a bit of time and energy running one down and wish I could  point you to a good one but the haulers buy 'em up quickly and  considering what's happened to the price of steel recently, I'm  confident a decent one for a reasonable price will be a good investment.  One caveat, make sure you've got room to legally park all this. My rig  is about 75' long but I can haul my boat home for the winter avoiding  hauling costs, storage costs and can get some work done at home.  If I can be of further service with information, let me know,  Courtney  Jim Douglas wrote:  > I need to move my steel hulled sail boat from Calgary to the Coast.   > Quotes obtained from the boat moving fraturnity of pirates are just  > insane.  As such I am looking into the idea of buying a highway  > capable boat trailer to move her myself. >  > She is 37 feet overall with her 4 foot bow sprit and weighs about  > 10,000 lbs.  She has a beam of 11 feet and stands 11 foot high from  > her fin keel to the cabin roof. As I am still in the money saving  > mode, my timing is entirely open ended at this point.   >  > Given the "do-it-yourself" nature of this group, I am also wondering  > if any of you know where one might get a design or plan to construct  > such a trailer myself?   As I intend to convert this boat to a twin  > keel configuration, ultimately such a trailer would have to be  > desiged with this in mind.   >  > I think that any money I throw at constructing a self built trailer  > now, I'll probably recoup later in savings on future moves or when I  > eventually sell it, whereas money donated to them boat moving guys  > is just simply gone.  >  > Does anyone have any leads or thoughts? >  > Jim Douglas > North Vancouver, B.C.  >  >  >  >  >  >  > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com  > Yahoo! Groups Links >  >  >  >   >  >  >  > |
9138|9135|2005-10-14 12:21:15|Michael Casling|Re: Wanted Boat Trailer for 37 foot Steel Sailboat|I bought a triple axel flat deck gooseneck trailer used. Cost $2750 plus taxes. I have to switch all the brakes, $500- replace the deck, $400- make it longer and modify my cradle and the trailer so it fits lower, $500-. The gooseneck works better on a 3/4 or one ton truck. Bigger trucks, 2 ton and up can use a regular pull hitch. The bigger trucks also have bigger brakes so the trailer brakes are not as critical. But bigger trucks may not be as practical for other uses.  I used to have a three ton 57 Chev and it pulled boats fine. I now have a 3/4 ton 78 Chevy, cost $2000- plus taxes in the mid eighties. To get the Chev to pull the boat over the Coca Cola I need a new engine with more hp, $2750- a lower ratio rear end $150- a bigger radiator $225- and all new brakes, $400-.  With this rig I can go back and forth to the big puddle. Check the trailer places, this is lots of used stuff. For your boat I would get something a bit larger than my truck and a commercial type low boy trailer. Good luck.  Michael     ----- Original Message -----    From: Jim Douglas    To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com    Sent: Friday, October 14, 2005 1:30 AM   Subject: [origamiboats] Wanted Boat Trailer for 37 foot Steel Sailboat     I need to move my steel hulled sail boat from Calgary to the Coast.     Quotes obtained from the boat moving fraturnity of pirates are just    insane.  As such I am looking into the idea of buying a highway    capable boat trailer to move her myself.    She is 37 feet overall with her 4 foot bow sprit and weighs about    10,000 lbs.  She has a beam of 11 feet and stands 11 foot high from    her fin keel to the cabin roof. As I am still in the money saving    mode, my timing is entirely open ended at this point.      Given the "do-it-yourself" nature of this group, I am also wondering    if any of you know where one might get a design or plan to construct    such a trailer myself?   As I intend to convert this boat to a twin    keel configuration, ultimately such a trailer would have to be    desiged with this in mind.      I think that any money I throw at constructing a self built trailer    now, I'll probably recoup later in savings on future moves or when I    eventually sell it, whereas money donated to them boat moving guys    is just simply gone.     Does anyone have any leads or thoughts?    Jim Douglas   North Vancouver, B.C.         To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com   To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com     ------------------------------------------------------------------------------   YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS       a..  Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web.            b..  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:      origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com            c..  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
9139|9139|2005-10-14 15:34:56|edward_stoneuk|Lead in keels|Dear All, I have just uploaded some photos to the Origamiboats2 site in Ted &  Fiona's Boat Bits.  They show melting and pouring the lead into the  bilge keels before the keels were in the boat, then winching and  hoisting the 1¼ ton keels into place.  We did it this way rather than  filling them after installation because we thought it would be easier  and safer.  That is open for discussion of course. Regards, Ted|
9140|9135|2005-10-14 15:51:43|kingsknight4life|Re: Wanted Boat Trailer for 37 foot Steel Sailboat|Jim Brent told me about a man named Ken, from Smokey Lake AB who has a  trailer. Used it to move his "brent boat" from there to the coast.  I'm not sure if he still has it (the trailer) but he may be willing  to sell it or lend it? Hopefully Brent could tell you more.If you've  ever been to Smokey Lake, you'd know that finding somone should be  easy. Just ask for "Ken the guy who built a sailboat in his barn."  shouldn't be too hard. Good luck, Rowland   --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Jim Douglas"  <conceptconversion@t...> wrote:  > > I need to move my steel hulled sail boat from Calgary to the   Coast.    > Quotes obtained from the boat moving fraturnity of pirates are   just   > insane.  As such I am looking into the idea of buying a highway  > capable boat trailer to move her myself. >  > She is 37 feet overall with her 4 foot bow sprit and weighs about  > 10,000 lbs.  She has a beam of 11 feet and stands 11 foot high   from   > her fin keel to the cabin roof. As I am still in the money saving  > mode, my timing is entirely open ended at this point.   >  > Given the "do-it-yourself" nature of this group, I am also   wondering   > if any of you know where one might get a design or plan to   construct   > such a trailer myself?   As I intend to convert this boat to a   twin   > keel configuration, ultimately such a trailer would have to be  > desiged with this in mind.   >  > I think that any money I throw at constructing a self built   trailer   > now, I'll probably recoup later in savings on future moves or when   I   > eventually sell it, whereas money donated to them boat moving guys  > is just simply gone.  >  > Does anyone have any leads or thoughts? >  > Jim Douglas > North Vancouver, B.C. > |
9141|9139|2005-10-14 16:29:50|Paul Cotter|Re: Lead in keels|Thanks for the pics, Ted.  The boat looks great. Were did you get your lead? Also, on your pipe bender, what did you use for the wheels?   Cheers   Paul   -----Original Message----- From: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com [mailto:origamiboats@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of edward_stoneuk Sent: 10/14/2005 11:34 AM To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Subject: [origamiboats] Lead in keels   Dear All, I have just uploaded some photos to the Origamiboats2 site in Ted &  Fiona's Boat Bits.  They show melting and pouring the lead into the  bilge keels before the keels were in the boat, then winching and  hoisting the 1¼ ton keels into place.  We did it this way rather than  filling them after installation because we thought it would be easier  and safer.  That is open for discussion of course. Regards, Ted      To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com       _____    YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS    *          Visit your group "origamiboats <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats> " on the web.    *          To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:  origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <mailto:origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>     *          Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>  Terms of Service.      _____      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]|
9142|9135|2005-10-14 18:31:29|kendall|Re: Wanted Boat Trailer for 37 foot Steel Sailboat|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Jim Douglas" <conceptconversion@t...> wrote:  > > I need to move my steel hulled sail boat from Calgary to the Coast.   > Quotes obtained from the boat moving fraturnity of pirates are just  > insane.  As such I am looking into the idea of buying a highway  > capable boat trailer to move her myself. >  > She is 37 feet overall with her 4 foot bow sprit and weighs about  > 10,000 lbs.  She has a beam of 11 feet and stands 11 foot high from  > her fin keel to the cabin roof. As I am still in the money saving  > mode, my timing is entirely open ended at this point.   >  > Given the "do-it-yourself" nature of this group, I am also wondering  > if any of you know where one might get a design or plan to construct  > such a trailer myself?   As I intend to convert this boat to a twin  > keel configuration, ultimately such a trailer would have to be  > desiged with this in mind.   >  > I think that any money I throw at constructing a self built trailer  > now, I'll probably recoup later in savings on future moves or when I  > eventually sell it, whereas money donated to them boat moving guys  > is just simply gone.  >  > Does anyone have any leads or thoughts? >  > Jim Douglas > North Vancouver, B.C. >     My boat has a steel cradle, I originally planned to build a 'real' boat trailer for my boat, then thought that I'd use a lowboy type trailer and set the cradle on it for moving it to have the best options, move the boat myself, and have the trailer for all around use. Final plan was to mount axles and tongue on the cradle, axles mount to heavy angle iron that cups the cradle, and bolts in place, tongue is bolted in place and is removeable for tight storage spots 3 used 3500lb axles/springs/hangers, and steel for the tongue cost about $400 so the first move using the trailer saved me $300+     My cradle is a heavy duty one, 8 uprights and base made of 4x4x1/4" steel, well braced, and heavy, don't know if it could be done with a lighter one.  Ken.|
9143|9135|2005-10-14 19:54:25|brentswain38|Re: Wanted Boat Trailer for 37 foot Steel Sailboat|There was one built for the 36 in Royston , for $500. It needed work on the brakes, but was highway licensed. Brent   --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "kendall" <merc2dogs@h...> wrote: > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Jim Douglas" > <conceptconversion@t...> wrote: > > > > I need to move my steel hulled sail boat from Calgary to the Coast.   > > Quotes obtained from the boat moving fraturnity of pirates are just  > > insane.  As such I am looking into the idea of buying a highway  > > capable boat trailer to move her myself. > >  > > She is 37 feet overall with her 4 foot bow sprit and weighs about  > > 10,000 lbs.  She has a beam of 11 feet and stands 11 foot high from  > > her fin keel to the cabin roof. As I am still in the money saving  > > mode, my timing is entirely open ended at this point.   > >  > > Given the "do-it-yourself" nature of this group, I am also wondering  > > if any of you know where one might get a design or plan to construct  > > such a trailer myself?   As I intend to convert this boat to a twin  > > keel configuration, ultimately such a trailer would have to be  > > desiged with this in mind.   > >  > > I think that any money I throw at constructing a self built trailer  > > now, I'll probably recoup later in savings on future moves or when I  > > eventually sell it, whereas money donated to them boat moving guys  > > is just simply gone.  > >  > > Does anyone have any leads or thoughts? > >  > > Jim Douglas > > North Vancouver, B.C. > > >  >   My boat has a steel cradle, I originally planned to build a 'real' > boat trailer for my boat, then thought that I'd use a lowboy type > trailer and set the cradle on it for moving it to have the best > options, move the boat myself, and have the trailer for all around > use. Final plan was to mount axles and tongue on the cradle, axles > mount to heavy angle iron that cups the cradle, and bolts in place, > tongue is bolted in place and is removeable for tight storage spots 3 > used 3500lb axles/springs/hangers, and steel for the tongue cost about > $400 so the first move using the trailer saved me $300+ >   >   My cradle is a heavy duty one, 8 uprights and base made of 4x4x1/4" > steel, well braced, and heavy, don't know if it could be done with a > lighter one. >  > Ken. > |
9144|9144|2005-10-14 20:04:01|kingsknight4life|posted some pics on the Origami 2 site|Hi I just finished posting some pics of our boat on the other site.  Mostly of detail work. Ignore the leaves and the rust. lol We're the  4th owner of this boat so it is rusty now. We'll have to blast. Enjoy Rowland|
9145|9135|2005-10-14 21:00:01|fishtronics|Re: Wanted Boat Trailer for 37 foot Steel Sailboat|For a boat with that beam there are wide-load permits involved as well  as a chase (or lead) car required for at least part of the trip. Part  of the outrageous cost comes from the part of the estimate where the  big rig and the chase car dead-head back. The trick is to line up a  puller who can make you a link in a circle route and avoid the deadhead  trip. That cuts the cost in about half. Then if you can chase the rig,  it saves more.  I saw a guy on eBay auctioning boat deliveries for $1/mile, if you are  on his circle. I think if you contact some deliverers and can wait till  they can pick you up instead of dead-heading, and you will chase  yourself, you can save maybe 75% of the earlier quote.   Some of the quote may have also included some set-up or take-down,  which you can help out with, if the puller is agreeable.  Driving a big rig over the rockies as a novice might be an adventure,  but I would want to work up to it.|
9146|8945|2005-10-14 23:48:27|Michael Casling|Re: Bank Sticks and other means of self defense|Good idea, lots of boats made from all types of materials. Plenty of places to sail, plenty of wind, too much in the Auckland area last week. A lot of boats came loose, some were damaged. Where are you now?  Michael    ----- Original Message -----    From: Jerry Scovel    To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com    Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2005 2:46 PM   Subject: Re: [origamiboats] Re: Bank Sticks and other means of self defense     This is true. I have been to NZ twice, the next time that I go I will stay   there.     on 10/12/05 4:22 PM, Michael Casling at casling@... wrote:    Sounds as if no one in your family played a game of rugby against a bunch of   farm boys from NZ.    Michael    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
9147|9135|2005-10-15 00:40:22|Jim Douglas|Re: Wanted Boat Trailer for 37 foot Steel Sailboat|Brent,  You wouldn't have a name or phone number for me to follow-up on this  would you?  Thanks - JIm Douglas   --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "brentswain38"  <brentswain38@h...> wrote:  > > There was one built for the 36 in Royston , for $500. It needed   work  > on the brakes, but was highway licensed. > Brent >  > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "kendall" <merc2dogs@h...>   wrote:  > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Jim Douglas" > > <conceptconversion@t...> wrote: > > > > > > I need to move my steel hulled sail boat from Calgary to the   Coast.    > > > Quotes obtained from the boat moving fraturnity of pirates are   just   > > > insane.  As such I am looking into the idea of buying a   highway   > > > capable boat trailer to move her myself. > > >  > > > She is 37 feet overall with her 4 foot bow sprit and weighs   about   > > > 10,000 lbs.  She has a beam of 11 feet and stands 11 foot high   from   > > > her fin keel to the cabin roof. As I am still in the money   saving   > > > mode, my timing is entirely open ended at this point.   > > >  > > > Given the "do-it-yourself" nature of this group, I am also   wondering   > > > if any of you know where one might get a design or plan to   construct   > > > such a trailer myself?   As I intend to convert this boat to a   twin   > > > keel configuration, ultimately such a trailer would have to be  > > > desiged with this in mind.   > > >  > > > I think that any money I throw at constructing a self built   trailer   > > > now, I'll probably recoup later in savings on future moves or   when I   > > > eventually sell it, whereas money donated to them boat moving   guys   > > > is just simply gone.  > > >  > > > Does anyone have any leads or thoughts? > > >  > > > Jim Douglas > > > North Vancouver, B.C. > > > > >  > >   My boat has a steel cradle, I originally planned to build   a 'real'  > > boat trailer for my boat, then thought that I'd use a lowboy type > > trailer and set the cradle on it for moving it to have the best > > options, move the boat myself, and have the trailer for all   around  > > use. Final plan was to mount axles and tongue on the cradle,   axles  > > mount to heavy angle iron that cups the cradle, and bolts in   place,  > > tongue is bolted in place and is removeable for tight storage   spots 3  > > used 3500lb axles/springs/hangers, and steel for the tongue cost   about  > > $400 so the first move using the trailer saved me $300+ > >   > >   My cradle is a heavy duty one, 8 uprights and base made of   4x4x1/4"  > > steel, well braced, and heavy, don't know if it could be done   with a  > > lighter one. > >  > > Ken. > > > |
9148|9135|2005-10-15 00:57:35|Jim Douglas|Re: Wanted Boat Trailer for 37 foot Steel Sailboat|Thanks Jason.  As it happens I have a college buddy from Alberta with some  experience in this who's going to help me out.  I do know what you mean as I once jumped into a 27 foot motor home I  had just bought and drove her down the "coca cola" (thanks for the  appelation Michael) back to North Vancouver in November one year.   Well, it started to snow heavily, visibility was nearly gone except  for the fresh tracks and tail lights of tne car ahead....Man, that  was a white knuckler all the way for sure, especially near the  Vancouver end when the road takes that deep decent but I made  it...and no I won't be doing the same thing again.  Spring or summer  is plenty soon!!  JIm Douglas      --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "fishtronics"  <jason_kovatch@a...> wrote:  > > For a boat with that beam there are wide-load permits involved as   well   > as a chase (or lead) car required for at least part of the trip.   Part   > of the outrageous cost comes from the part of the estimate where   the   > big rig and the chase car dead-head back. The trick is to line up   a   > puller who can make you a link in a circle route and avoid the   deadhead   > trip. That cuts the cost in about half. Then if you can chase the   rig,   > it saves more. >  > I saw a guy on eBay auctioning boat deliveries for $1/mile, if you   are   > on his circle. I think if you contact some deliverers and can wait   till   > they can pick you up instead of dead-heading, and you will chase  > yourself, you can save maybe 75% of the earlier quote.  >  > Some of the quote may have also included some set-up or take-down,  > which you can help out with, if the puller is agreeable. >  > Driving a big rig over the rockies as a novice might be an   adventure,   > but I would want to work up to it. > |
9149|9135|2005-10-15 01:28:01|Jim Douglas|Re: Wanted Boat Trailer for 37 foot Steel Sailboat|Courtney,  Nice to see your still out there.  Yes I may have my cart before the  horse a little bit as I still have not pinned down my building site  as yet, but will do so obviously before I lock into purchasing a  trailer. I was going to borrow my buddy's 1 ton truck for this and  assume that the boat and trailer could be stored together where ever  I go.  -Jim Douglas          --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Courtney Thomas <ccthomas@j...>  wrote:  > > Jim, >  > I went through this hell last year and wound up buying a used 50'   [with   > extension] trailer for less than the steel would have cost. It's a  > Canadian made Aldura with a capacity of about 50,000 lbs but my   boat   > only weighs about 20,000. >  > I should add that it requires an overtheroad tractor to pull it   but   > don't let that intimidate you. If you only use it to haul your own   boat   > a CDL [commercial driver's license] is not required and insurance   is not   > too bad. I bought the tractor off Ebay, had never driven one   before,   > flew up to Minnesota [over 1000 miles] picked it up, drove around   the   > parking lot awhile and drove 'er home. >  > I spent quite a bit of time and energy running one down and wish I   could   > point you to a good one but the haulers buy 'em up quickly and  > considering what's happened to the price of steel recently, I'm  > confident a decent one for a reasonable price will be a good   investment.  >  > One caveat, make sure you've got room to legally park all this. My   rig   > is about 75' long but I can haul my boat home for the winter   avoiding   > hauling costs, storage costs and can get some work done at home. >  > If I can be of further service with information, let me know, >  > Courtney >  > Jim Douglas wrote: > > I need to move my steel hulled sail boat from Calgary to the   Coast.    > > Quotes obtained from the boat moving fraturnity of pirates are   just   > > insane.  As such I am looking into the idea of buying a highway  > > capable boat trailer to move her myself. > >  > > She is 37 feet overall with her 4 foot bow sprit and weighs   about   > > 10,000 lbs.  She has a beam of 11 feet and stands 11 foot high   from   > > her fin keel to the cabin roof. As I am still in the money   saving   > > mode, my timing is entirely open ended at this point.   > >  > > Given the "do-it-yourself" nature of this group, I am also   wondering   > > if any of you know where one might get a design or plan to   construct   > > such a trailer myself?   As I intend to convert this boat to a   twin   > > keel configuration, ultimately such a trailer would have to be  > > desiged with this in mind.   > >  > > I think that any money I throw at constructing a self built   trailer   > > now, I'll probably recoup later in savings on future moves or   when I   > > eventually sell it, whereas money donated to them boat moving   guys   > > is just simply gone.  > >  > > Does anyone have any leads or thoughts? > >  > > Jim Douglas > > North Vancouver, B.C.  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-  unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com   > > Yahoo! Groups Links > >  > >  > >  > >   > >  > >  > >  > > > |
9150|8945|2005-10-15 02:15:33|Jerry Scovel|Re: Bank Sticks and other means of self defense|I am in Osco, Il. right in the middle of the great corn desert.   on 10/14/05 10:48 PM, Michael Casling at casling@... wrote:  Good idea, lots of boats made from all types of materials. Plenty of places to sail, plenty of wind, too much in the Auckland area last week. A lot of boats came loose, some were damaged. Where are you now?  Michael   ----- Original Message -----  From: Jerry Scovel  To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com  Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2005 2:46 PM  Subject: Re: [origamiboats] Re: Bank Sticks and other means of self defense    This is true. I have been to NZ twice, the next time that I go I will stay  there.    on 10/12/05 4:22 PM, Michael Casling at casling@... wrote:   Sounds as if no one in your family played a game of rugby against a bunch of  farm boys from NZ.   Michael    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]    To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com      YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS   Visit your group "origamiboats <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats> " on the web.     To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:  origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <mailto:origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>    Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
9151|9139|2005-10-15 04:28:34|edward_stoneuk|Re: Lead in keels|Paul, Thanks.  The lead I bought from a scrap dealer.  It is mostly roof  flashing and pipe. The wheels are medium density polyethylene.  I  intend to fuse them together when I've finished bending and use them  for the bow roller.  MDPE is a bit soft but it is all I have at the  moment.  It is good for a bender as it does not mark the pipe.   Hardwood wheels would probably be good too.  The thing is with making  tools to use in building a boat is that they will not be doing much  work so don't have to be hard wearing. Regards, Ted|
9152|9144|2005-10-15 04:36:28|edward_stoneuk|Re: posted some pics on the Origami 2 site|Rowland, They are great photos.  I was interested in the tiger torching lead  into the keels one.  We melted and poured but where it shrunk as it  solidifyed I thought I would use a pepper pot oxy acetylene torch to  melt some more in around the edges.  I over did it a bit and got some  warping of the keels. Did you have any problem? Regards, Ted|
9153|9144|2005-10-15 05:02:49|kingsknight4life|Re: posted some pics on the Origami 2 site|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "edward_stoneuk"  <tedstone@g...>  wrote:  > > Rowland, > They are great photos.  I was interested in the tiger torching   lead   > into the keels one.  We melted and poured but where it shrunk as   it   > solidifyed I thought I would use a pepper pot oxy acetylene torch   to   > melt some more in around the edges.  I over did it a bit and got   some   > warping of the keels. Did you have any problem? > Regards, > Ted >  Thanks Ted. The keels didn't warp at all, although the top of the tank that  spans  the 2 keels warped slightly. I think the fact that I melted in large  chunks (25-75 lbs) acted like a heat sink. I also tried to avoid  entirely  melting chunks and try to melt around them. Does that make sense?  Like I said in the caption, I tried to melt slowly to avoid creating  deadly fumes. I tried to envision it like an ice cube melting but  NOT  wanting it to turn from water to steam. lol The whole process took  approx.  2 1/2 days and that includes weighing the lead ($10  bathroom  scale)and hauling it up a flight of stairs into the boat.  Now that I can weld, (sort of) or know welders I would melt it  outside  in a pot. Although you may need more than one tiger torh to do this.  If the lead is clean and you can stand sauna type temps. melting  inside is fine but melting "dirty" lead ie. tire weights is a  nightmare to do inside. Melting 300 lbs. of tire weights made more  mess inside the hull than the other 4500 lbs combined. I emerged  from  the hull looking like a coal miner lol.  Rowland|
9154|8945|2005-10-15 19:25:08|seeratlas|Re: Bank Sticks and other means of self defense|LOL,  and didn't the mayans or aztecs play a kind of Jai Alai where the loser was sacrificed? :) seer   --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Jerry Scovel <stcfarms@n...> wrote: > > In the american indian world Ga-lahs (Lacrosse) was played with the severed > heads of ones enemies. From the stories passed down by my great grandfather > I find it difficult to call rugby a tough game. >  >  From: seeratlas  >  To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com >  Sent: Monday, October 10, 2005 12:04 PM >  Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Bank Sticks and other means of self defense >  >  >  LOL :) While rugby is indeed a tough sport, the 'sport' of kings >  remains the toughest of them all, and, if I remember correctly, the >  Aussies play some pretty rowdy rugby...and aren't entirely harmless in >  the king's sport either. Oh, and they do play Rugby in the US, its >  just that most of us have come to realize that helmets, and a few >  strategically placed pads not to mention a stout cup, are useful in >  ensuring that one lives to play, relatively completely functional, >  another day :). >  >  seer >  >  >  >  >  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > |
9155|9144|2005-10-15 19:39:55|jericoera|Re: posted some pics on the Origami 2 site|The people I have been speaking with suggest running a garden hose  on the outside of the keels while you melt the lead. The steel  doesn't heat up near as much. Then pour the molten lead into the  cooled keels.  I don't know if its wise advice or not, but the boat  I saw had an extremely fair single keel so must be OK.  Carl M    --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "kingsknight4life"  <wildcatbjj@h...> wrote:  > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "edward_stoneuk"  > <tedstone@g...>  > wrote: > > > > Rowland, > > They are great photos.  I was interested in the tiger torching  > lead  > > into the keels one.  We melted and poured but where it shrunk as  > it  > > solidifyed I thought I would use a pepper pot oxy acetylene   torch   > to  > > melt some more in around the edges.  I over did it a bit and got  > some  > > warping of the keels. Did you have any problem? > > Regards, > > Ted > > > Thanks Ted. > The keels didn't warp at all, although the top of the tank that  > spans  > the 2 keels warped slightly. I think the fact that I melted in   large   > chunks (25-75 lbs) acted like a heat sink. I also tried to avoid  > entirely  > melting chunks and try to melt around them. Does that make sense? >  > Like I said in the caption, I tried to melt slowly to avoid   creating   > deadly fumes. I tried to envision it like an ice cube melting but  > NOT  > wanting it to turn from water to steam. lol The whole process took  > approx.  2 1/2 days and that includes weighing the lead ($10  > bathroom  > scale)and hauling it up a flight of stairs into the boat. >  > Now that I can weld, (sort of) or know welders I would melt it  > outside  > in a pot. Although you may need more than one tiger torh to do   this.   > If the lead is clean and you can stand sauna type temps. melting  > inside is fine but melting "dirty" lead ie. tire weights is a  > nightmare to do inside. Melting 300 lbs. of tire weights made more  > mess inside the hull than the other 4500 lbs combined. I emerged  > from  > the hull looking like a coal miner lol. >  > Rowland > |
9156|8945|2005-10-15 19:40:59|Jerry Scovel|Re: Bank Sticks and other means of self defense|That could be, we even consider chess a contact sport...   on 10/15/05 6:25 PM, seeratlas at seeratlas@... wrote:   LOL,  and didn't the mayans or aztecs play a kind of Jai Alai where the loser was sacrificed? :) seer   --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Jerry Scovel <stcfarms@n...> wrote: > > In the american indian world Ga-lahs (Lacrosse) was played with the severed > heads of ones enemies. From the stories passed down by my great grandfather > I find it difficult to call rugby a tough game. >  >  From: seeratlas  >  To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com >  Sent: Monday, October 10, 2005 12:04 PM >  Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Bank Sticks and other means of self defense >  >  >  LOL :) While rugby is indeed a tough sport, the 'sport' of kings >  remains the toughest of them all, and, if I remember correctly, the >  Aussies play some pretty rowdy rugby...and aren't entirely harmless in >  the king's sport either. Oh, and they do play Rugby in the US, its >  just that most of us have come to realize that helmets, and a few >  strategically placed pads not to mention a stout cup, are useful in >  ensuring that one lives to play, relatively completely functional, >  another day :). >  >  seer >  >  >  >  >  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >       To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com      YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS   Visit your group "origamiboats <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats> " on the web.     To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:  origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <mailto:origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>    Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
9157|8945|2005-10-15 21:24:00|Jerry walker|Re: Bank Sticks and other means of self defense|No I believe that it was in Iraq under Uday.    >From: "seeratlas" <seeratlas@...> >Reply-To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com >To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com >Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Bank Sticks and other means of self defense >Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 23:25:01 -0000 > > >LOL, >and didn't the mayans or aztecs play a kind of Jai Alai where the >loser was sacrificed? :) >seer > >--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Jerry Scovel <stcfarms@n...> wrote: > > > > In the american indian world Ga-lahs (Lacrosse) was played with the >severed > > heads of ones enemies. From the stories passed down by my great >grandfather > > I find it difficult to call rugby a tough game. > > > >  From: seeratlas > >  To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > >  Sent: Monday, October 10, 2005 12:04 PM > >  Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Bank Sticks and other means of self defense > > > > > >  LOL :) While rugby is indeed a tough sport, the 'sport' of kings > >  remains the toughest of them all, and, if I remember correctly, the > >  Aussies play some pretty rowdy rugby...and aren't entirely harmless in > >  the king's sport either. Oh, and they do play Rugby in the US, its > >  just that most of us have come to realize that helmets, and a few > >  strategically placed pads not to mention a stout cup, are useful in > >  ensuring that one lives to play, relatively completely functional, > >  another day :). > > > >  seer > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > |
9158|9144|2005-10-16 03:57:02|edward_stoneuk|Re: posted some pics on the Origami 2 site (Lead In Keels)|Carl,  Although in some places a bit of heat in the steel helps the lead to  flow into place better, in general cooling the keels with a hose when  pouring or torching the lead would have been a very good idea.  I wish  I'd thought of it when we poured ours.  Regards, Ted|
9159|9144|2005-10-16 03:57:38|T & D CAIN|Re: Getting lead into keels|We used a home-made electric melting pot using 6kW of stove(cooker?) elements clamped to the welded-in bottom of a short section of 24 inch water main. The whole thing was lagged and fitted with external simmerstats to control the temperature. On the days of pouring/casting, my wife hosed the outside of the keel with a fine spray from the garden hose and the job went well. There were three casts to do the 7700lbs of lead. After cooling and contraction, a thin epoxy resin was used to fill the gaps. The inside of the keel had been blasted and prefinished  in a 3pack polyurethane zinc-rich material called Dimetcote rated at 275 deg.C. Terry|
9160|9160|2005-10-16 05:08:42|chip|Re: Dgst1338-WantedBoatTrailer|----- Original Message -----   > Message: 5 >   Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 08:30:54 -0000 >   From: "Jim Douglas" <conceptconversion@...> > Subject: Wanted Boat Trailer for 37 foot Steel Sailboat > I need to move my steel hulled sail boat ... She has a beam of 11 feet and  > stands 11 foot high ...   Jim et al: One possible problem to be aware of is that the beam of the boat may be too  much for hauling overland without "Wide-Load" signs and even outriders ahead  of and behind you. Others who've replied to your post have experience with  moving larger boats but I saw no mention of this possibility so it may not  apply. I'm told that here in Florida if it's more than a certain width (I believe  that's 96 inches) special rules come into play. I'm no expert on this, as my boats are much narrower, but I did stay near a  Holiday Inn once. I hope others will make further comments on this topic.  chip in central florida|
9161|9160|2005-10-16 09:56:20|Courtney Thomas|Re: Dgst1338-WantedBoatTrailer|Trucking permits are required and are subject to the regulations for  EACH different state through which you'll transit, if your beam exceeds  8'.  Wide load or oversize load signs on the front and rear are universal as  far as I know, in the case of beam > 8', and the chaser car(s) probably  won't apply depending on the particulars of your haul.  You can research this yourself or hire a trucking permit company to do  it all for you. Google this.  Also, I should add that these permits are restrictive at least according  to time of day that movement is allowed, which roads, etc..  It's not as bad as it seems, only that planning pretty far ahead is  mandated. I must say that, based on my experience, many of the  enforcement and administrative personnel don't know the law, and are  often misguided. You need to be prepared and really do your homework  initially, but once you egress this maze of confusion, contradiction and  error, you've then got it in hand. I keep laminated copies of the  applicable regulations in the cab of the truck. I got stopped in  Illinois, for example, and had to wait while the patrolman called the  state capitol to find out what applied. Apparently he'd not encountered  anything like an individual driving their own not-for-hire rig before.  But anyway all turned out well and I was soon on my way, legally.  I personally regard avoiding winter storage cost, the convenience of  havin' 'er home to work on, and the capability of being able to haul 'er  out whereever I want on the east coast and trucking her home, if  preferable to continuing a passage for some unexpected reason, such as  significant damage that cannot be locally handled by competent personnel  at a reasonable cost, and more.....to be more than worth the cost and  aggravation of putting all this together, but my circumstances are  probably quite different from most sailors.  I'll also add that serviceable tractor-trailer rigs, some with lowboys  that can be readily adapted, are constantly appearing on Ebay and other  sites, for what I regard as bargain prices. But be careful that you  don't get a trailer whose bed is too high. You've got to get all this  under bridges.  Seemingly, independent truckers are in freefall and it's really a good  time to get a good buy, if this scenario fits your situation. But again,  you'll have to do a good amount of homework to even figure this part  out. The older trucks have less 'stuff' on 'em to break down and are  less complex and more approachable for a DIY person. For example those  with a Cummins 855ci engine are very well known by veteran diesel  mechanics, are quite common and well documented.  After you pay one of the haulers thousands and the service is lousy, as  I experienced, this all gets more attractive, especially if there's ANY  chance that you might have to haul her again, and after all, you can  sell the rig later if it suits you.  My limited experience is that everything related to yachts is increasing  in cost at an uncomfortable rate and I'd guess will only worsen as  retirees storm these services and products, but I'd love to be wrong :-)  Hope this helps, Courtney   chip wrote:  > ----- Original Message -----  >  >>Message: 5 >>  Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 08:30:54 -0000 >>  From: "Jim Douglas" <conceptconversion@...> >>Subject: Wanted Boat Trailer for 37 foot Steel Sailboat >>I need to move my steel hulled sail boat ... She has a beam of 11 feet and  >>stands 11 foot high ... >  >  > Jim et al: > One possible problem to be aware of is that the beam of the boat may be too  > much for hauling overland without "Wide-Load" signs and even outriders ahead  > of and behind you. Others who've replied to your post have experience with  > moving larger boats but I saw no mention of this possibility so it may not  > apply. > I'm told that here in Florida if it's more than a certain width (I believe  > that's 96 inches) special rules come into play. > I'm no expert on this, as my boats are much narrower, but I did stay near a  > Holiday Inn once. > I hope others will make further comments on this topic. >  > chip in central florida  >  >  >  >  >  > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com  > Yahoo! Groups Links >  >  >  >   >  >  >  > |
9162|9160|2005-10-16 10:11:05|kendall|Re: Dgst1338-WantedBoatTrailer|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "chip" <snewt1@e...> wrote:  > >  > ----- Original Message -----  > > Message: 5 > >   Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 08:30:54 -0000 > >   From: "Jim Douglas" <conceptconversion@t...> > > Subject: Wanted Boat Trailer for 37 foot Steel Sailboat > > I need to move my steel hulled sail boat ... She has a beam of 11  feet and   > > stands 11 foot high ... >  > Jim et al: > One possible problem to be aware of is that the beam of the boat may  be too   > much for hauling overland without "Wide-Load" signs and even  outriders ahead   > of and behind you. Others who've replied to your post have  experience with   > moving larger boats but I saw no mention of this possibility so it  may not   > apply. > I'm told that here in Florida if it's more than a certain width (I  believe   > that's 96 inches) special rules come into play. > I'm no expert on this, as my boats are much narrower, but I did stay  near a   > Holiday Inn once. > I hope others will make further comments on this topic. >  > chip in central florida >    Up here in michigan you don't need escorts or permits for 12ft and under, anything over and you need escorts and wide load banners. there are also certain restrictions as to when you may have a wide load on the road, 6 to 9am, and 3 to 5pm are normal restricted times,    a lot of semi trailers have little stickers on them that claim 102" of interior space, so 9' (8'6 + (3"*2) sidewall) is apparently legal everywhere.   my boat is 8'6" beam, and no permits are needed ken.|
9163|9163|2005-10-16 12:50:57|SHANE ROTHWELL|Worst Case Scenario etc|I don't need this garbage. Does anyone else? Queer sex, politics & religion have NO PLACE ON THIS SITE! Period.  I believe the only way to stop this filth is to ban the individuals responsible with immediate effect.   What say you?  Shane     	  	 		 __________________________________________________________  Find your next car at http://autos.yahoo.ca|
9164|9160|2005-10-16 12:51:09|Gary H. Lucas|Re: Dgst1338-WantedBoatTrailer|Hell, even the term "18 wheeler" is a joke in Michigan.  Trucks with 11  axles and 42 tires are common on your roads!  Gary H. Lucas   ----- Original Message -----  From: "kendall" <merc2dogs@...> To: <origamiboats@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, October 16, 2005 10:10 AM Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Dgst1338-WantedBoatTrailer   > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "chip" <snewt1@e...> wrote: >> >> >> ----- Original Message -----  >> > Message: 5 >> >   Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 08:30:54 -0000 >> >   From: "Jim Douglas" <conceptconversion@t...> >> > Subject: Wanted Boat Trailer for 37 foot Steel Sailboat >> > I need to move my steel hulled sail boat ... She has a beam of 11 > feet and >> > stands 11 foot high ... >> >> Jim et al: >> One possible problem to be aware of is that the beam of the boat may > be too >> much for hauling overland without "Wide-Load" signs and even > outriders ahead >> of and behind you. Others who've replied to your post have > experience with >> moving larger boats but I saw no mention of this possibility so it > may not >> apply. >> I'm told that here in Florida if it's more than a certain width (I > believe >> that's 96 inches) special rules come into play. >> I'm no expert on this, as my boats are much narrower, but I did stay > near a >> Holiday Inn once. >> I hope others will make further comments on this topic. >> >> chip in central florida >> > > > Up here in michigan you don't need escorts or permits for 12ft and > under, anything over and you need escorts and wide load banners. there > are also certain restrictions as to when you may have a wide load on > the road, 6 to 9am, and 3 to 5pm are normal restricted times, > a lot of semi trailers have little stickers on them that claim 102" > of interior space, so 9' (8'6 + (3"*2) sidewall) is apparently legal > everywhere. > > my boat is 8'6" beam, and no permits are needed > ken. > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:  > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > |
9165|9160|2005-10-16 14:01:19|Bill Jaine|Re: Dgst1338-WantedBoatTrailer|Oh yes it can be, there are certain towns that prey on oversize loads, we got a $600 fine for not having a B22b (?) map of the local town as specified in a sub paragraph of a sub-paragraph on Page 6. The policeman didn�t even ask for permits or licenses, just the map.     When writing the ticket took so long and ran us into being on the road outside daylight hours he said �just drive on to the next town� �some 30 miles, where we arrived after sundown�.and totally illegal because we were towing a 37� tayana with over 11� beam.       Bill   Port Hope. Canada   It's not as bad as it seems   -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.12.1/136 - Release Date: 15/10/2005    --  No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.12.1/136 - Release Date: 15/10/2005     [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]|
9166|9160|2005-10-16 14:12:52|Courtney Thomas|Re: Dgst1338-WantedBoatTrailer|Bill,  Thank you for your comments.  As one planning, this coming Spring, on hauling, by truck, a boat from  the U.S. up to Canada for sailing, all caveats, comments and  recommendations would most gratefully be appreciated. My current plan it  to cross the border somewhere either in New Brunswick or Nova Scotia,  from Maine.  It's a U.S. documented vessel, the truck is a tagged U.S. rig, and I am  a U.S. citizen, if it matters.  Appreciatively,  Courtney  Bill Jaine wrote:  > Oh yes it can be, there are certain towns that prey on oversize loads, we > got a $600 fine for not having a B22b (?) map of the local town as specified > in a sub paragraph of a sub-paragraph on Page 6. The policeman didn’t even > ask for permits or licenses, just the map. >  >   >  > When writing the ticket took so long and ran us into being on the road > outside daylight hours he said “just drive on to the next town” …some 30 > miles, where we arrived after sundown….and totally illegal because we were > towing a 37’ tayana with over 11’ beam.   >  >   >  > Bill  >  > Port Hope. Canada >  >  > It's not as bad as it seems >  >  > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.12.1/136 - Release Date: 15/10/2005 >  >  > |
9167|9160|2005-10-16 15:15:04|Bill Jaine|Re: Dgst1338-WantedBoatTrailer|I would really use one of the permit services to obtain the permits if you will be oversize, it cost me $1500 in permits and you have to watch your height clearances, especially if the road gets closed and you have to divert. AND make sure you have dam great brakes on the trailer Also make sure that you have mast carrying capability  Customs/immigration was the least of the problems, going both ways, didn't even ask for my passport (out of date).  Have a great trip, its fun but tiring!  Bill  Port Hope. Canada  -----Original Message----- From: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com [mailto:origamiboats@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Courtney Thomas Sent: 16-Oct-05 3:25 PM To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [origamiboats] Dgst1338-WantedBoatTrailer  Bill,  Thank you for your comments.  As one planning, this coming Spring, on hauling, by truck, a boat from  the U.S. up to Canada for sailing, all caveats, comments and  recommendations would most gratefully be appreciated. My current plan it  to cross the border somewhere either in New Brunswick or Nova Scotia,  from Maine.  It's a U.S. documented vessel, the truck is a tagged U.S. rig, and I am  a U.S. citizen, if it matters.  Appreciatively,  Courtney  Bill Jaine wrote:  > Oh yes it can be, there are certain towns that prey on oversize loads, we > got a $600 fine for not having a B22b (?) map of the local town as  specified  > in a sub paragraph of a sub-paragraph on Page 6. The policeman didn’t even > ask for permits or licenses, just the map. >  >   >  > When writing the ticket took so long and ran us into being on the road > outside daylight hours he said “just drive on to the next town” …some 30 > miles, where we arrived after sundown….and totally illegal because we were > towing a 37’ tayana with over 11’ beam.   >  >   >  > Bill  >  > Port Hope. Canada >  >  > It's not as bad as it seems >  >  > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.12.1/136 - Release Date: 15/10/2005 >  >  >      To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com  Yahoo! Groups Links          --  No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.12.1/136 - Release Date: 15/10/2005    --  No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.12.1/136 - Release Date: 15/10/2005|
9168|9160|2005-10-16 15:33:07|Courtney Thomas|Re: Dgst1338-WantedBoatTrailer|Bill, thanks again. I really appreciate your sharing your experience.  My boat is 10.25' beam, and my understanding is I'll be in compliance in  the U.S. with nothing more than "Wide Load" signs front and rear. Is  this adequate to also meet Canadian requirements. If it would help, so  far as Canada is concerned, I could confine all my route to Nova Scotia.  When you say it cost $1500 in permits, what were your  departure/destination points, what boat dimensions, what truck ?  What % of the total permit cost was Canadian ?  When you warn of height clearances, I assume you only mean if you are  diverted, since presumably the state/province routing administrators  will take height constraints into account and include this information  in their route evaluation vis-a-vis permitting.  I have just finished having my mast hangers, i.e. L-shaped brackets,  welded up.  Any suggestions for testing brake adequacy ? I just had the rig  inspected by an authorized inspection station in Atlanta, but I have no  confidence in their perfunctory doings.  What exactly did customs do and where'd you cross ?  You are Canadian, right ? I wonder what role that played in their  behavior, as opposed to a U.S. citizen.  Cordially,  Courtney  Bill Jaine wrote:  > I would really use one of the permit services to obtain the permits if you > will be oversize, it cost me $1500 in permits and you have to watch your > height clearances, especially if the road gets closed and you have to > divert. > AND make sure you have dam great brakes on the trailer > Also make sure that you have mast carrying capability >  > Customs/immigration was the least of the problems, going both ways, didn't > even ask for my passport (out of date). >  > Have a great trip, its fun but tiring! >  > Bill  > Port Hope. Canada >  > -----Original Message----- > From: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com [mailto:origamiboats@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Courtney Thomas > Sent: 16-Oct-05 3:25 PM > To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [origamiboats] Dgst1338-WantedBoatTrailer >  > Bill, >  > Thank you for your comments. >  > As one planning, this coming Spring, on hauling, by truck, a boat from  > the U.S. up to Canada for sailing, all caveats, comments and  > recommendations would most gratefully be appreciated. My current plan it  > to cross the border somewhere either in New Brunswick or Nova Scotia,  > from Maine. >  > It's a U.S. documented vessel, the truck is a tagged U.S. rig, and I am  > a U.S. citizen, if it matters. >  > Appreciatively, >  > Courtney >  > Bill Jaine wrote: >  >>Oh yes it can be, there are certain towns that prey on oversize loads, we >>got a $600 fine for not having a B22b (?) map of the local town as >  > specified >  >>in a sub paragraph of a sub-paragraph on Page 6. The policeman didn’t even >>ask for permits or licenses, just the map. >> >>  >> >>When writing the ticket took so long and ran us into being on the road >>outside daylight hours he said “just drive on to the next town” …some 30 >>miles, where we arrived after sundown….and totally illegal because we were >>towing a 37’ tayana with over 11’ beam.   >> >>  >> >>Bill  >> >>Port Hope. Canada >> >> >>It's not as bad as it seems >> >> >>-- >>No virus found in this incoming message. >>Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >>Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.12.1/136 - Release Date: 15/10/2005 >> >> >> >  >  >  >  > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com  > Yahoo! Groups Links >  >  >  >   >  >  >  > |
9169|9160|2005-10-16 19:55:05|kendall|Re: Dgst1338-WantedBoatTrailer|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Gary H. Lucas" <gary.lucas@v...> wrote:  > > Hell, even the term "18 wheeler" is a joke in Michigan.  Trucks with 11  > axles and 42 tires are common on your roads! >  > Gary H. Lucas >    Oh yeah! Some of them have so many wheels they look like they have tracks, and the roads are always massed up too.  Ken.|
9170|9163|2005-10-17 00:23:57|Alex and Kim Christie|Re: Worst Case Scenario etc|He can't post any more, I've made sure of that already...  Alex    ----- Original Message -----    From: SHANE ROTHWELL    To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com    Sent: Sunday, October 16, 2005 9:50 AM   Subject: [origamiboats] Worst Case Scenario etc     I don't need this garbage. Does anyone else?   Queer sex, politics & religion have NO PLACE ON THIS   SITE! Period.    I believe the only way to stop this filth is to ban   the individuals responsible with immediate effect.     What say you?    Shane                                         __________________________________________________________    Find your next car at http://autos.yahoo.ca     To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com   To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com     ------------------------------------------------------------------------------   YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS       a..  Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web.            b..  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:      origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com            c..  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------     ------------------------------------------------------------------------------     No virus found in this incoming message.   Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.   Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.12.2/137 - Release Date: 16/10/2005   [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
9171|9144|2005-10-17 05:08:07|Alex Christie|lead in keels|The Austins did a neat trick with their lead -- they cast it into small  bricks with a triangular cross-section and placed these vertically,  really stuffing those keels tight.  The triangular section allowed them  to be packed so tightly that there were hardly any gaps.  I believe  they poured a small amount of lead onto each layer of vertical  triangular bricks to lock them in.  Seemed like a neat and tidy way of  accomplishing a stinking job, by avoiding the need to 1) move a large  mass of lead all at once, 2) melt all lead at once.  All the casting of the triangular bricks was able to be done out in the  open, of course, where the best ventilation is.  I am wondering if might be a good idea still to warm up the solid lead  that is in place before pouring in the lead that is destined to fill  the interstices, otherwise the lead might solidify before it gets right  to the bottom due to the massive heat sink that cold lead might  represent.  Does anyone have exprerience with this?  Is the molten lead  liquid enough to make it to the bottom and fill all cracks before  solidifying?  Alex   >  melting chunks and try to melt around them. Does that make sense? > 	     [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]|
9172|9144|2005-10-17 06:02:11|edward_stoneuk|Re: lead in keels|Alex,  Where our poured lead hit the side of the keel it solidified like a  frozen waterfall.  It didn't take much of a temperature difference if  the cold mass is greater than the hot mass for the lead to solidify.   We built a wooden duct to put the lead where we wanted it to avoid  most of the splashing.  We poured 56lb every 10 to 20 minutes  depending on the state of the coal and wood fire.    Regards, Ted|
9173|9144|2005-10-17 06:11:36|Alex Christie|Re: lead in keels|Ok, so maybe doing shorter layers is the ticket, and as much preheat as  possible.  I don't know how long Rob Austin's triangular "Toblerone"  bars of lead were -- I will find out in town from  the Austins when I  visit there again. If lead solidifies that fast, then it would be hard  to convince it to go right to the bottom, around the gaps, without  solidfying half way down, so a stack of bars in each layer maybe only 4  inches high might be about right.  I like the idea of forming the ingots in the open air, preferably with  a stiff wind blowing (put a shield around the pot you are heating to  keep the heat from being wicked away), then placing in at one's  leisure.  Alex   On 17-Oct-05, at 3:02 AM, edward_stoneuk wrote:  > Alex, > >  Where our poured lead hit the side of the keel it solidified like a >  frozen waterfall.  It didn't take much of a temperature difference if >  the cold mass is greater than the hot mass for the lead to solidify.  >  We built a wooden duct to put the lead where we wanted it to avoid >  most of the splashing.  We poured 56lb every 10 to 20 minutes >  depending on the state of the coal and wood fire.  > >  Regards, >  Ted > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com >  To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:  > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > 	▪ 	 Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web. >   > 	▪ 	 To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >  origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com >   > 	▪ 	 Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of  > Service. > >   [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
9174|9174|2005-10-17 09:23:34|jericoera|Grinding back saver|Here's another good trick. Instead of breaking your back with a heavy  7 inch grinder, when grinding along the connection between the two  halves, try a masonary wheel on a regular cheap skill saw. I saw one  being used like that and it works like a hot damn and is light or at  least lighter to hold.  Why break your back?  Carl M.|
9175|9144|2005-10-17 09:31:58|Bill Jaine|Re: lead in keels|A good way to heat the lead is to use the burner from an old gas water heater and put a propane tank onto it.     If you are using wheelweights be prepared for having to dispose of a lot of dross.     When we were casting keels we used a (very large because it was a commercial operation) burner to keep the top of the cast keel melted and avoid separation�but then we were doing this for racing boats�.on your own you could just use a propane burner and let the layers melt together.     While you have the pot cooking I suggest that you also make a few kellets, Take a couple of tomato juice cans, Fill them full of lead. Sink into the top of the can 2 heavy metal rods the width of your anchor rode apart and sticking out of the lead about 6�, first bend the rods at the top, so that the top 3� forms an upside down U (n), make sure the open parts oppose each other so that the rode can be slipped in between them then the can rotated 90 degrees and then the rode will be held trapped between the 2 rods but can slip un and down                 n   n              l         l            l         l        Bill   Port Hope. Canada     -----Original Message----- From: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com [mailto:origamiboats@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Alex Christie Sent: 17-Oct-05 5:08 AM To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Subject: [origamiboats] lead in keels     The Austins did a neat trick with their lead -- they cast it into small  bricks with a triangular cross-section and placed these vertically,  really stuffing those keels tight.  The triangular section allowed them  to be packed so tightly that there were hardly any gaps.  I believe  they poured a small amount of lead onto each layer of vertical  triangular bricks to lock them in.  Seemed like a neat and tidy way of  accomplishing a stinking job, by avoiding the need to 1) move a large  mass of lead all at once, 2) melt all lead at once.  All the casting of the triangular bricks was able to be done out in the  open, of course, where the best ventilation is.  I am wondering if might be a good idea still to warm up the solid lead  that is in place before pouring in the lead that is destined to fill  the interstices, otherwise the lead might solidify before it gets right  to the bottom due to the massive heat sink that cold lead might  represent.  Does anyone have exprerience with this?  Is the molten lead  liquid enough to make it to the bottom and fill all cracks before  solidifying?  Alex   >  melting chunks and try to melt around them. Does that make sense? >            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]    To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com         _____    YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS      *         Visit your group "HYPERLINK "http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats"origamiboats" on the web.     *         To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:  HYPERLINK "mailto:origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe"origami boats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com     *         Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the HYPERLINK "http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/"Yahoo! Terms of Service.         _____     -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.12.1/136 - Release Date: 15/10/2005    --  No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.12.1/136 - Release Date: 15/10/2005     [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]|
9176|9163|2005-10-17 09:32:09|Bill Jaine|Re: Worst Case Scenario etc|That�s right�.it belongs on TV!     Bill   Port Hope. Canada     -----Original Message----- From: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com [mailto:origamiboats@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Alex and Kim Christie Sent: 17-Oct-05 12:23 AM To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [origamiboats] Worst Case Scenario etc     He can't post any more, I've made sure of that already...  Alex    ----- Original Message -----    From: SHANE ROTHWELL    To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com    Sent: Sunday, October 16, 2005 9:50 AM   Subject: [origamiboats] Worst Case Scenario etc     I don't need this garbage. Does anyone else?   Queer sex, politics & religion have NO PLACE ON THIS   SITE! Period.    I believe the only way to stop this filth is to ban   the individuals responsible with immediate effect.     What say you?    Shane                                         __________________________________________________________    Find your next car at HYPERLINK "http://autos.yahoo.ca"http://autos.yahoo.ca     To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com   To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com     ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- --   YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS       a..  Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web.            b..  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:      origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com            c..  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- --     ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- --     No virus found in this incoming message.   Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.   Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.12.2/137 - Release Date: 16/10/2005   [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]    To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com      SPONSORED LINKS    HYPERLINK "http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=British+columbia+canada&w1=British+colu mbia+canada&w2=Vancouver+island&w3=Yacht&w4=Victoria+bc&c=4&s=79&.sig=9R67WC gMr5OvBLa-xHHyGA"British columbia canada   HYPERLINK "http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Vancouver+island&w1=British+columbia+ca nada&w2=Vancouver+island&w3=Yacht&w4=Victoria+bc&c=4&s=79&.sig=yL5WOtgPnpYAm d1P5N16cw"Vancouver island   HYPERLINK "http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Yacht&w1=British+columbia+canada&w2=Van couver+island&w3=Yacht&w4=Victoria+bc&c=4&s=79&.sig=VvQDFUjkrcc6EJ4xXP0vjg"Y acht    HYPERLINK "http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Victoria+bc&w1=British+columbia+canada& w2=Vancouver+island&w3=Yacht&w4=Victoria+bc&c=4&s=79&.sig=QTHu1FWCcMWsTCz7vG yGdg"Victoria bc               _____    YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS      *         Visit your group "HYPERLINK "http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats"origamiboats" on the web.     *         To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:  HYPERLINK "mailto:origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe"origami boats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com     *         Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the HYPERLINK "http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/"Yahoo! Terms of Service.         _____     -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.12.1/136 - Release Date: 15/10/2005    --  No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.12.1/136 - Release Date: 15/10/2005     [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
9177|9160|2005-10-17 09:32:20|Bill Jaine|Re: Dgst1338-WantedBoatTrailer|I'll check on the width requirements and email them to you  From Fort Pierce Florida to Port Hope (near Toronto) Ontario  Not sure about the Can %, boat dimensions loa 37' beam 11'6", weight 28,000 (had 3,000 lbs of water in her)  Yes we were diverted when a brief snowfall caused the hway in NY to be closed because of a dozen accidents, we had to pass under a very narrow bridge with supposedly 13 feet clearance, it was concerning but made much easier by having a CB on board and a trucker behind us watching us crawl through at 1 mph. Strongly suggest you put a CB in the hauling vehicle.   I know it will be a pain but I suggest that you try to load her up with close to your boat weight and go to a vacant parking lot to try the brakes and see how she handles with a load. Better to do it before the boat is on than to find out later you have a problem and 1000 miles to go all of it down a steep hill with a Z bend at the bottom!  Customs just asked for proof of the value of the transaction/ownership, and that was just for the Federal Sales Tax, I'm not sure that being a Canuck made much difference, I'm not sure about how they might interpret your boat as being imported but since you have the trailer etc I really don't think there should be a problem, especially since it is a USA made boat and no taxes under Free Trade.   Bill  Port Hope. Canada  -----Original Message----- From: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com [mailto:origamiboats@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Courtney Thomas Sent: 16-Oct-05 4:45 PM To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [origamiboats] Dgst1338-WantedBoatTrailer  Bill, thanks again. I really appreciate your sharing your experience.  My boat is 10.25' beam, and my understanding is I'll be in compliance in  the U.S. with nothing more than "Wide Load" signs front and rear. Is  this adequate to also meet Canadian requirements. If it would help, so  far as Canada is concerned, I could confine all my route to Nova Scotia.  When you say it cost $1500 in permits, what were your  departure/destination points, what boat dimensions, what truck ?  What % of the total permit cost was Canadian ?  When you warn of height clearances, I assume you only mean if you are  diverted, since presumably the state/province routing administrators  will take height constraints into account and include this information  in their route evaluation vis-a-vis permitting.  I have just finished having my mast hangers, i.e. L-shaped brackets,  welded up.  Any suggestions for testing brake adequacy ? I just had the rig  inspected by an authorized inspection station in Atlanta, but I have no  confidence in their perfunctory doings.  What exactly did customs do and where'd you cross ?  You are Canadian, right ? I wonder what role that played in their  behavior, as opposed to a U.S. citizen.  Cordially,  Courtney  Bill Jaine wrote:  > I would really use one of the permit services to obtain the permits if you > will be oversize, it cost me $1500 in permits and you have to watch your > height clearances, especially if the road gets closed and you have to > divert. > AND make sure you have dam great brakes on the trailer > Also make sure that you have mast carrying capability >  > Customs/immigration was the least of the problems, going both ways, didn't > even ask for my passport (out of date). >  > Have a great trip, its fun but tiring! >  > Bill  > Port Hope. Canada >  > -----Original Message----- > From: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com [mailto:origamiboats@yahoogroups.com]  On  > Behalf Of Courtney Thomas > Sent: 16-Oct-05 3:25 PM > To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [origamiboats] Dgst1338-WantedBoatTrailer >  > Bill, >  > Thank you for your comments. >  > As one planning, this coming Spring, on hauling, by truck, a boat from  > the U.S. up to Canada for sailing, all caveats, comments and  > recommendations would most gratefully be appreciated. My current plan it  > to cross the border somewhere either in New Brunswick or Nova Scotia,  > from Maine. >  > It's a U.S. documented vessel, the truck is a tagged U.S. rig, and I am  > a U.S. citizen, if it matters. >  > Appreciatively, >  > Courtney >  > Bill Jaine wrote: >  >>Oh yes it can be, there are certain towns that prey on oversize loads, we >>got a $600 fine for not having a B22b (?) map of the local town as >  > specified >  >>in a sub paragraph of a sub-paragraph on Page 6. The policeman didn’t even >>ask for permits or licenses, just the map. >> >>  >> >>When writing the ticket took so long and ran us into being on the road >>outside daylight hours he said “just drive on to the next town” …some 30 >>miles, where we arrived after sundown….and totally illegal because we were >>towing a 37’ tayana with over 11’ beam.   >> >>  >> >>Bill  >> >>Port Hope. Canada >> >> >>It's not as bad as it seems >> >> >>-- >>No virus found in this incoming message. >>Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >>Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.12.1/136 - Release Date: 15/10/2005 >> >> >> >  >  >  >  > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com  > Yahoo! Groups Links >  >  >  >   >  >  >  >      To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com  Yahoo! Groups Links          --  No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.12.1/136 - Release Date: 15/10/2005    --  No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.12.1/136 - Release Date: 15/10/2005|
9178|9160|2005-10-17 12:55:45|Courtney Thomas|Re: Dgst1338-WantedBoatTrailer|Bill,  Great information. Thank you :-)  Did you notice much windage when hauling ? My boat's draft is 5.75' and the  rig + boat = 50,000 lbs [approx].  I have a bow support and 3 support stanchions w/pad for ea side and also three  4" winching poly straps. Sound adequate ?  Pardon my obtuseness, but are you saying that..... if i import my boat into  Canada that i owe no taxes since it falls under NAFTA, i.e. the Free Trade  agreement.  I understood that sales tax in Nova Scotia, for example, was 15% and that if I  imported the boat there that I'd owe 15%. Is that wrong ?  Cordially,  Courtney|
9179|9179|2005-10-17 13:27:08|bert andjan|Re: Boat Trailering|I welded up a trailer for a Tartan 34 from a mobile home trailer.  The long trailer with 4 axles was cut in half and I made the "I" beams into an "H" or box for strength.  I only needed 3 axles.   Than I borrowed a Chevy Duramax diesel pickup and pulled the boat and trailer aprox 500 miles from Appleton Wisc to Saginaw, Mi ...over the Mackinaw Bridge.  The weight was around 16,000 lbs and it towed very easily.  I did need overwith permits and an escort over the bridge...   All in all, very satisfying and the trailer cost about $800. plus extra steel and rods, etc.  Did need overwidth permits in both states.  It was legal height.  Very safe and satisfying experience.  The nice thing is that you can bring the boat home to work on her...and avoid the storage bills at the marinas.  Bert Eggers, Saginaw   		 __________________________________  Yahoo! Music Unlimited  Access over 1 million songs. Try it free. http://music.yahoo.com/unlimited/|
9180|9180|2005-10-17 14:38:34|mickeyolaf|New Aluminum Mast for Sale|New aluminum mast for sale, 47 feet with aluminum spreaders with  stainless spreader lights, aluminum mast steps, 4 sheave mast head  with spinnaker bale and Windex, cutter rig with hound, wired, with  steaming light, winch bases (for Anderson 2 speed 28's). Deck mounted  stainless mastbase with stainless tray for block attachment (if  leading lines aft to cockpit). Painted white with UV 2- part epoxy.  Internal halyards, foamed inside full length. All 316 stainless  fittings. All 316 stainless fasteners. Pre-stringed for halyards. Plus  some other fittings. Designed for Swain 36.   778-837-5725|
9181|9160|2005-10-17 14:38:54|Bill Jaine|Re: Dgst1338-WantedBoatTrailer|I don�t think that windage was much of an issue but with a draft of 5.75� how high will she be when on the trailer.     50,000 lbs is a lot of weight     Generally there are 2 sales taxes in Canada, GST (7%) which is federal and P(rovincial) Sales Tax (usually 8%) ��except on the east coast where the Federal Government collects the PST with the GST and calls it H(armonised)ST (15%), I paid GST because I bought the boat, when I brought my other boat back into Canada (as a returning citizen) I paid no taxes.      If that doesn�t have you confused nothing will :-)           Bill   Port Hope. Canada     -----Original Message----- From: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com [mailto:origamiboats@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Courtney Thomas Sent: 17-Oct-05 1:07 PM To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [origamiboats] Dgst1338-WantedBoatTrailer     Bill,  Great information. Thank you :-)  Did you notice much windage when hauling ? My boat's draft is 5.75' and the  rig + boat = 50,000 lbs [approx].  I have a bow support and 3 support stanchions w/pad for ea side and also three  4" winching poly straps. Sound adequate ?  Pardon my obtuseness, but are you saying that..... if i import my boat into  Canada that i owe no taxes since it falls under NAFTA, i.e. the Free Trade  agreement.  I understood that sales tax in Nova Scotia, for example, was 15% and that if I  imported the boat there that I'd owe 15%. Is that wrong ?  Cordially,  Courtney    To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com      SPONSORED LINKS    HYPERLINK "http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=British+columbia+canada&w1=British+colu mbia+canada&w2=Vancouver+island&w3=Yacht&w4=Victoria+bc&c=4&s=79&.sig=9R67WC gMr5OvBLa-xHHyGA"British columbia canada   HYPERLINK "http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Vancouver+island&w1=British+columbia+ca nada&w2=Vancouver+island&w3=Yacht&w4=Victoria+bc&c=4&s=79&.sig=yL5WOtgPnpYAm d1P5N16cw"Vancouver island   HYPERLINK "http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Yacht&w1=British+columbia+canada&w2=Van couver+island&w3=Yacht&w4=Victoria+bc&c=4&s=79&.sig=VvQDFUjkrcc6EJ4xXP0vjg"Y acht    HYPERLINK "http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Victoria+bc&w1=British+columbia+canada& w2=Vancouver+island&w3=Yacht&w4=Victoria+bc&c=4&s=79&.sig=QTHu1FWCcMWsTCz7vG yGdg"Victoria bc               _____    YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS      *         Visit your group "HYPERLINK "http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats"origamiboats" on the web.     *         To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:  HYPERLINK "mailto:origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe"origami boats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com     *         Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the HYPERLINK "http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/"Yahoo! Terms of Service.         _____     -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.12.1/136 - Release Date: 15/10/2005    --  No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.12.1/136 - Release Date: 15/10/2005     [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]|
9182|9160|2005-10-17 16:11:28|Courtney Thomas|Re: Dgst1338-WantedBoatTrailer|Bill,  I still don't understand if I must pay taxes if I were to EXPORT my boat from  the U.S. into Canada, that is, bring it in, register it as a Canadian vessel  whose home port would thereafter be in Canada, and leave it in Canada; but,  all the while remain a U.S. citizen.  Courtney    On Monday 17 October 2005 02:36 pm, Bill Jaine wrote: > I donÂ’t think that windage was much of an issue but with a draft of 5.75Â’ > how high will she be when on the trailer. > > > > 50,000 lbs is a lot of weight > > > > Generally there are 2 sales taxes in Canada, GST (7%) which is federal and > P(rovincial) Sales Tax (usually 8%) Â…Â…except on the east coast where the > Federal Government collects the PST with the GST and calls it > H(armonised)ST (15%), I paid GST because I bought the boat, when I brought > my other boat back into Canada (as a returning citizen) I paid no taxes. > > > > If that doesnÂ’t have you confused nothing will :-) > > > > > > > > Bill > > Port Hope. Canada > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com [mailto:origamiboats@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Courtney Thomas > Sent: 17-Oct-05 1:07 PM > To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [origamiboats] Dgst1338-WantedBoatTrailer > > > > Bill, > > Great information. Thank you :-) > > Did you notice much windage when hauling ? My boat's draft is 5.75' and the > rig + boat = 50,000 lbs [approx]. > > I have a bow support and 3 support stanchions w/pad for ea side and also > three > 4" winching poly straps. Sound adequate ? > > Pardon my obtuseness, but are you saying that..... if i import my boat into > Canada that i owe no taxes since it falls under NAFTA, i.e. the Free Trade > agreement. > > I understood that sales tax in Nova Scotia, for example, was 15% and that > if I > imported the boat there that I'd owe 15%. Is that wrong ? > > Cordially, > > Courtney > > > > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > > SPONSORED LINKS > > > HYPERLINK > "http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=British+columbia+canada&w1=British+col >u > mbia+canada&w2=Vancouver+island&w3=Yacht&w4=Victoria+bc&c=4&s=79&.sig=9R67W >C gMr5OvBLa-xHHyGA"British columbia canada > > HYPERLINK > "http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Vancouver+island&w1=British+columbia+c >a > nada&w2=Vancouver+island&w3=Yacht&w4=Victoria+bc&c=4&s=79&.sig=yL5WOtgPnpYA >m d1P5N16cw"Vancouver island > > HYPERLINK > "http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Yacht&w1=British+columbia+canada&w2=Va >n > couver+island&w3=Yacht&w4=Victoria+bc&c=4&s=79&.sig=VvQDFUjkrcc6EJ4xXP0vjg" >Y acht > > > HYPERLINK > "http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Victoria+bc&w1=British+columbia+canada >& > w2=Vancouver+island&w3=Yacht&w4=Victoria+bc&c=4&s=79&.sig=QTHu1FWCcMWsTCz7v >G yGdg"Victoria bc > > > > > > > >    _____ > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > > > *         Visit your group "HYPERLINK > "http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats"origamiboats" on the web. > > > *         To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >  HYPERLINK > "mailto:origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe"origam >i boats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > *         Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the HYPERLINK > "http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/"Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > > >    _____ > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.12.1/136 - Release Date: 15/10/2005 |
9183|9144|2005-10-17 16:27:33|kingsknight4life|Re: lead in keels|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Alex Christie <achristie@s...>  wrote:  > > Ok, so maybe doing shorter layers is the ticket, and as much   preheat as   > possible.  I don't know how long Rob Austin's   triangular "Toblerone"   > bars of lead were -- I will find out in town from  the Austins   when I   > visit there again. If lead solidifies that fast, then it would be   hard   > to convince it to go right to the bottom, around the gaps, without  > solidfying half way down, so a stack of bars in each layer maybe   only 4   > inches high might be about right. >  > I like the idea of forming the ingots in the open air, preferably   with   > a stiff wind blowing (put a shield around the pot you are heating   to   > keep the heat from being wicked away), then placing in at one's  > leisure. >  > Alex >  > On 17-Oct-05, at 3:02 AM, edward_stoneuk wrote: >  > > Alex, > > > >  Where our poured lead hit the side of the keel it solidified   like a  > >  frozen waterfall.  It didn't take much of a temperature   difference if  > >  the cold mass is greater than the hot mass for the lead to   solidify.   > >  We built a wooden duct to put the lead where we wanted it to   avoid  > >  most of the splashing.  We poured 56lb every 10 to 20 minutes > >  depending on the state of the coal and wood fire.  > > > >  Regards, > >  Ted > > > > > > > > > > > > Alex  I share Ted's experience. I tried putting the lead into the keel and  melting lead around it but it didn't work that well. I had some nice  clean chunks that I wedged into the keels but like Ted said, the  lead solidifies on contact with anyhting cold. I ended up pretty  much melting in the works. If your lead is clean, eg. cannon balls,  flashing, a previous keel etc. melting inside isn't that bad. With  hatches and windows cut out and using a fan and respirator I think I  avoided all fumes. Plus I made a VERY serious effort to melt slowly  so as to not get the lead hot enough to produce ANY fumes. Melting  tire weights SUCKS and I would only do that outside. Good luck, Rowland|
9184|9184|2005-10-17 17:24:30|Bill Jaine|Thailand Tsunami Boat Pictures - totally off topic but interesting|http://www.yachtaragorn.com/Thailand.htm     a J46 I believe     Bill   Port Hope. Canada      -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.12.1/136 - Release Date: 15/10/2005     [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]|
9185|9160|2005-10-17 17:24:45|Bill Jaine|Re: Dgst1338-WantedBoatTrailer|Here are some sites and info�.that certainly won�t clear things up��..any other Canucks have comments�?     Are you intending to leave the vessel in Canada permanently?        HYPERLINK "http://boating.ncf.ca/canadaborder.html#duty"http://boating.ncf.ca/canadabo rder.html#duty              Importation of Boats and Vessels into Nova Scotia from Outside Canada   Boats or vessels imported into Nova Scotia from outside Canada are not subject to NSST (Nova Scotia sales tax ?) , however, the Canada Customs and Revenue Agency should be contacted for the payment of any applicable taxes and/or duties which may be due under the authority of the Excise Tax Act (Canada).      U.S. Boats remaining after October 31   Americans may leave their boat in Canada during the winter without paying duty and tax only if repair or maintenance work is to be done by a bona-fide marina during that time.   Before you can leave your boat in Canada for winter repair, the local Canadian customs office must be presented with a copy of the work order. For more information, call their marina division at 519-257-6457.   HYPERLINK "http://boating.ncf.ca/canadaborder.html#top"HYPERLINK "http://boating.ncf.ca/canadaborder.html#top"Top of PageHYPERLINK "http://boating.ncf.ca/canadaborder.html#top"  This summary is provided only for convenience and may be out of date. Get current details from the government (HYPERLINK "http://boating.ncf.ca/linksgov.html"Canadian Government Index).  Choices: In Canada, you have the choice of License (most common) with the province the boat resides in or registration with Transport Canada. Legally and cost-wise, they are very different.   Don't confuse American terms. Our license is the equivalent of US registration; Canadian registration is similar to US documentation.   Buying a Used Boat: When you buy a used "licensed" boat, you must transfer the license by taking it with a "bill of sale" signed by the previous owner and the completed transfer form (reverse side of Pleasure Craft Licence form) to the nearest Canada Border Services Agency office (refer to the blue pages in your telephone directory for the office nearest to you).  If a used boat has no license, license number or registration papers, read HYPERLINK "http://boating.ncf.ca/linksgov.html#tc"Transport Canada "Marine Safety" for information.  Buying a US boat: Canadian residents who license or register a boat in another country, can only bring it into Canada for a limited time before they must pay duty and tax on the boat (GST & PST).   Importing a boat or equipment: The Free Trade Agreement provides for low duty to import a domestically manufactured boat and none for some types of marine safety equipment.  Boat operation: Canadian regulations require an operator's card HYPERLINK "http://boating.ncf.ca/pcoc.html"(PCOC) to operate a boat, which will be phased in to include all boaters by 2009.  Compliance Plates: Most boats require a Safety Compliance Notice issued by the Canadian Coast Guard. It will be either a Capacity Label, Conformity Label, or a Single Vessel Label.  Marine radios: HYPERLINK "http://boating.ncf.ca/vhf.html"VHF radio licenses are sometimes not required based on new regulations. To operate and transmit messages on a HYPERLINK "http://boating.ncf.ca/vhf.html"VHF radio, you must have a Restricted Radiotelephone Operator's Certificate proving your proficiency.   HYPERLINK "http://boating.ncf.ca/license.html#top"HYPERLINK "http://boating.ncf.ca/license.html#top"Top of PageHYPERLINK "http://boating.ncf.ca/license.html#top"   Vessel Licensing   *	Required if under 15 gross tons, equipped with a motor of 7.5 kW (10 HP) or more, and not registered.  *	Sometimes required by foreign countries, seaways, and locks.  *	Changes must be recorded at port where vessel is licensed.  *	Markings on boat must be block characters in contrasting colour 7.5 cm (3") high, positioned correctly.  *	Forms are available from Fisheries & Oceans, Canadian Coast Guard, Office of Small Boat Safety.  *	Small Commercial Vessel Licensing - application forms are available from any Ship Registration office, or their Hotline 1-877-242-8770  *	Free of charge (Provinces may charge Sales Tax)   Note that licensing does not imply clear title or ownership of the boat. Licensing is an identification system not a title system. There has been talk by the federal government to implement annual licensing in addition to current boat identification plates and compliance plates. The boat licence is to be kept on board at all times. The government must be notified in writing of any change of address or changes made to a pleasure craft.   HYPERLINK "http://boating.ncf.ca/boatname-streetglo.html"Get marine-grade vinyl boat name decals from STREETGLO.NET!  Choose any style of lettering you like! Design your decal online.   HYPERLINK "http://www.streetglo.net/boat-lettering.html"Streetglo.net Boat Name Lettering  When you buy a new boat, a boat broker can usually arrange for a license and payment of sales tax. The boat will be issued a license number beginning with the issuing provincial government's "Letters" which you mark on the boat in the required size and location.   When you buy a used boat, you simply transfer the license by taking it with a "bill of sale" signed by the previous owner to the provincial government office and paying the sales tax.   When you sell a boat, follow the instructions on the transfer form on the reverse side of your Pleasure Craft Licence and give it to the new owner. The new owner should contact the federal government to complete the transfer. Search the blue pages in your telephone directory or our HYPERLINK "http://boating.ncf.ca/linksgov.html"government index for Customs, Revenue or Border Agency (names may change).  When you license a boat, be sure to check its serial numbers and ensure they match the plate on the vessel, on the bill of sale, and all government paperwork.  Section 11 of the Small Vessel Regulations states "The number allotted to a vessel when it is first licensed shall be the permanent licence number of that vessel and shall be retained for the vessel throughout any subsequent transfer of ownership."   You must license your dinghy if you plan to travel on any canals or travel outside Canada where it is normally required. You must put the license numbers on the dinghy.   Trailer licenses:   Get these at provincial Driver & Vehicle License Office - you can find these in the phone book Blue Pages. You must have the ownership and a bill of sale from the person or company you bought it from. In Ontario you pay PST at 8%; in some provinces, it's HST (GST & PST) at about 15%.  HYPERLINK "http://boating.ncf.ca/license.html#top"HYPERLINK "http://boating.ncf.ca/license.html#top"Top of PageHYPERLINK "http://boating.ncf.ca/license.html#top"   Registration   You must register larger vessels, or if you require a mortgage, otherwise it's an option to provincial licensing. General requirements:   *	Registration is required over 15 gross tons (or 12 metres long if it has not been measured for tonnage)  *	Contact the nearest HYPERLINK "http://boating.ncf.ca/linksgov.html#tc"Department of Transport Canada, Office of Ship Registration.  *	You usually need to get a tonnage survey.  *	Markings must be block characters in contrasting colour 10.3 cm (4") high.  *	Pleasure craft manufactured after 1978 must bear a decal indicating it meets or exceeds minimum standards. [Decal requirements for measurement appear to ignore registered boats which have already been professionally "measured".]   National Shipping Authority can take control of your registered boat in times of crisis (war). For that reason, you will legally own only 2/3 of a registered boat; one third is owned by the crown. Registration was really designed for commercial vessels!   New legislation February 2000 contained changes to the Canada Shipping Act with new vessel categories and new fees for registration and transfers. Contact any Ship Registration office, or Transport Canada. [HYPERLINK "http://boating.ncf.ca/linksgov.html#tc"Government Index | HYPERLINK "http://boating.ncf.ca/license-reg1999.html"Registration-1999]  HYPERLINK "http://boating.ncf.ca/license.html#top"HYPERLINK "http://boating.ncf.ca/license.html#top"Top of PageHYPERLINK "http://boating.ncf.ca/license.html#top"   Licensing v.s. Registration   Registration is a procedure for documentation of ownership or title. Licensing is a procedure which identifies a vessel as having paid sales tax in a province or territory and does not necessarily imply ownership or title.   Patrick Julien (from Caelis International, one of Canada's major Coast Guard and Transport Canada approved marine documentation consultancies), sent me some interesting comments about licenses and registration.   He mentioned that the term "register tonnage" for registered vessels is a term of volume (e.g. one metric ton is equal to one metric meter). When we got our own boat registered, we used to joke about how much coal we could carry -- the measurement is really designed for cargo ships! I'm not sure, but I think we can also get "called up" if there was a war (something about Her Magesty's Navy).  From Patrick:  Licensing is not really the norm for expensive vessels, as owners usually wish to obtain clear title and proof of ownership that comes with registration. A license is simply a piece of paper which allows you to go on the water; it has absolutely nothing to do with proof of ownership. We recently dealt with the transfer of property of a vessel which had four current and potentially valid licenses issued on it. You do not need to prove you own the boat to get a license -- and boat thefts are rumoured to be in the area of 15% of inventory in Canada. And what of banks and finance companies chasing their security.   A standard 36 foot and up cruiser with good interior living accomodations normally meets this minimum measure. Many people think of this measurement as weight, which is practically impossible for pleasure boats. Very few of us have boats in this weight range (well, perhaps Bill Teron...).   There are many advantages to actually registering a boat, not the least of which are clear title, and sequence of title, and option to borrow against the value of the boat as security (marine mortgage). Most foreign ports will insist on vessel registration to ensure confirmation of ownership and nationality of captain and vessel. HYPERLINK "mailto:pjulien@...?Subject=BoatinginCanada.com%20query"Patrick Julien (pjulien@...) (604)732-7382  If you plan to cruise to other countries, or just want to secure your ownership, registration is a good idea. Of course, it costs more and requires filling out forms, but you wouldn't buy a house without getting a proper deed, would you?    Compliance Plates & Labels   Pleasure craft, fitted with or capable of being fitted with engine(s) require a properly located Safety Compliance Notice issued by Fisheries and Oceans Canada, Coast Guard - either a Capacity Label, Conformity Label, or a Single Vessel Label. (HYPERLINK "http://boating.ncf.ca/linksgov.html"Government directory: Office of Boating Safety)   HYPERLINK "http://boating.ncf.ca/license.html#top"HYPERLINK "http://boating.ncf.ca/license.html#top"Top of PageHYPERLINK "http://boating.ncf.ca/license.html#top"   More information:   1.	HYPERLINK "http://boating.ncf.ca/linksgov.html"Canadian Government Index - please use government sites for current regulations and laws:   *	Vessel License - Revenue Canada, Customs and Excise, Border Control *	Ship Registration - Transport Canada *	Trailer licenses - provincial Driver & Vehicle License Office, telephone book Blue Pages *	License/regististration markings - Office of Boating Safety (Transport Canada)  *	Pleasure boat regulations - Office of Boating Safety (Transport Canada)   2.	HYPERLINK "http://boating.ncf.ca/buyaboat.html"Buying a boat - choices, costs, protect yourself 3.	HYPERLINK "http://www.boatingwithdawsons.com/cmd.php?Clk=1143329""Buy a Boat with Confidence" by Doug Dawson will save you costly errors and money when you buy a boat!  4.	HYPERLINK "http://boating.ncf.ca/boatnames.html""The Name Game" - naming a boat is fun!  5.	HYPERLINK "http://boating.ncf.ca/boatname-streetglo.html"Boat names from STREETGLO.NET - marine-grade vinyl lettering  6.	Other licenses:   *	HYPERLINK "http://boating.ncf.ca/vhf.html"VHF ship radio license (required outside Canada) *	HYPERLINK "http://boating.ncf.ca/vhf.html#operatorlicense"VHF operator license (RCOC) *	HYPERLINK "http://boating.ncf.ca/pcoc.html"Licenses for boat operation (PCOC)   7.	Canadian Coast Guard Info-line 1-800-267-6687. 8.	Be sure to read Pat's HYPERLINK "http://boating.ncf.ca/news.html"Boating News for changes to regulations.  9.	HYPERLINK "http://boating.ncf.ca/loading.html"Boat loading table  10.	Did you know HYPERLINK "http://boating.ncf.ca/tax-fees.html"Canadian boaters pay many taxes and fees?   HYPERLINK "http://boating.ncf.ca/license.html#top"TOP | HYPERLINK "http://boating.ncf.ca/license.html#lic"License | HYPERLINK "http://boating.ncf.ca/license.html#reg"Registration | HYPERLINK "http://boating.ncf.ca/license.html#vs"Which one? | HYPERLINK "http://boating.ncf.ca/license.html#links"References   HYPERLINK "http://boating.ncf.ca/pcoc.html"Operator card   HYPERLINK "http://boating.ncf.ca/license.html"Boat license   HYPERLINK "http://boating.ncf.ca/vhf.html"VHF license   HYPERLINK "http://boating.ncf.ca/laws.html"Laws   HYPERLINK "http://boating.ncf.ca/tax-fees.html"Taxes   HYPERLINK "http://boating.ncf.ca/equipment.html"Equipment   HYPERLINK "http://boating.ncf.ca/news.html"News         Bill   Port Hope. Canada     -----Original Message----- From: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com [mailto:origamiboats@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Courtney Thomas Sent: 17-Oct-05 4:22 PM To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [origamiboats] Dgst1338-WantedBoatTrailer     Bill,  I still don't understand if I must pay taxes if I were to EXPORT my boat from  the U.S. into Canada, that is, bring it in, register it as a Canadian vessel  whose home port would thereafter be in Canada, and leave it in Canada; but,  all the while remain a U.S. citizen.       _____     -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.12.1/136 - Release Date: 15/10/2005    --  No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.12.1/136 - Release Date: 15/10/2005          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]|
9186|9160|2005-10-17 17:29:56|Courtney Thomas|Re: Dgst1338-WantedBoatTrailer|I'd like to leave 'er permanently if I don't have to pay that unharmonious  HST :-)  Gratefully,  Courtney    On Monday 17 October 2005 14:21, Bill Jaine wrote: > Here are some sites and infoÂ….that certainly wonÂ’t clear things upÂ…Â…..any > other Canucks have commentsÂ…? > > > > Are you intending to leave the vessel in Canada permanently? > > > > > > HYPERLINK > "http://boating.ncf.ca/canadaborder.html#duty"http://boating.ncf.ca/canadab >o rder.html#duty > > > > > > > > > > Importation of Boats and Vessels into Nova Scotia from Outside Canada > > Boats or vessels imported into Nova Scotia from outside Canada are not > subject to NSST (Nova Scotia sales tax ?) , however, the Canada Customs and > Revenue Agency should be contacted for the payment of any applicable taxes > and/or duties which may be due under the authority of the Excise Tax Act > (Canada). > > > > > U.S. Boats remaining after October 31 > > > Americans may leave their boat in Canada during the winter without paying > duty and tax only if repair or maintenance work is to be done by a > bona-fide marina during that time. > > Before you can leave your boat in Canada for winter repair, the local > Canadian customs office must be presented with a copy of the work order. > For more information, call their marina division at 519-257-6457. > > HYPERLINK "http://boating.ncf.ca/canadaborder.html#top"HYPERLINK > "http://boating.ncf.ca/canadaborder.html#top"Top of PageHYPERLINK > "http://boating.ncf.ca/canadaborder.html#top" > > This summary is provided only for convenience and may be out of date. Get > current details from the government (HYPERLINK > "http://boating.ncf.ca/linksgov.html"Canadian Government Index). > > Choices: In Canada, you have the choice of License (most common) with the > province the boat resides in or registration with Transport Canada. Legally > and cost-wise, they are very different. > > Don't confuse American terms. Our license is the equivalent of US > registration; Canadian registration is similar to US documentation. > > Buying a Used Boat: When you buy a used "licensed" boat, you must transfer > the license by taking it with a "bill of sale" signed by the previous owner > and the completed transfer form (reverse side of Pleasure Craft Licence > form) to the nearest Canada Border Services Agency office (refer to the > blue pages in your telephone directory for the office nearest to you). > > If a used boat has no license, license number or registration papers, read > HYPERLINK "http://boating.ncf.ca/linksgov.html#tc"Transport Canada "Marine > Safety" for information. > > Buying a US boat: Canadian residents who license or register a boat in > another country, can only bring it into Canada for a limited time before > they must pay duty and tax on the boat (GST & PST). > > Importing a boat or equipment: The Free Trade Agreement provides for low > duty to import a domestically manufactured boat and none for some types of > marine safety equipment. > > Boat operation: Canadian regulations require an operator's card HYPERLINK > "http://boating.ncf.ca/pcoc.html"(PCOC) to operate a boat, which will be > phased in to include all boaters by 2009. > > Compliance Plates: Most boats require a Safety Compliance Notice issued by > the Canadian Coast Guard. It will be either a Capacity Label, Conformity > Label, or a Single Vessel Label. > > Marine radios: HYPERLINK "http://boating.ncf.ca/vhf.html"VHF radio licenses > are sometimes not required based on new regulations. To operate and > transmit messages on a HYPERLINK "http://boating.ncf.ca/vhf.html"VHF radio, > you must have a Restricted Radiotelephone Operator's Certificate proving > your proficiency. > > HYPERLINK "http://boating.ncf.ca/license.html#top"HYPERLINK > "http://boating.ncf.ca/license.html#top"Top of PageHYPERLINK > "http://boating.ncf.ca/license.html#top" > > > Vessel Licensing > > > *	Required if under 15 gross tons, equipped with a motor of 7.5 kW (10 > HP) or more, and not registered. > *	Sometimes required by foreign countries, seaways, and locks. > *	Changes must be recorded at port where vessel is licensed. > *	Markings on boat must be block characters in contrasting colour 7.5 > cm (3") high, positioned correctly. > *	Forms are available from Fisheries & Oceans, Canadian Coast Guard, > Office of Small Boat Safety. > *	Small Commercial Vessel Licensing - application forms are available > from any Ship Registration office, or their Hotline 1-877-242-8770 > *	Free of charge (Provinces may charge Sales Tax) > > Note that licensing does not imply clear title or ownership of the boat. > Licensing is an identification system not a title system. There has been > talk by the federal government to implement annual licensing in addition to > current boat identification plates and compliance plates. The boat licence > is to be kept on board at all times. The government must be notified in > writing of any change of address or changes made to a pleasure craft. > > HYPERLINK "http://boating.ncf.ca/boatname-streetglo.html"Get marine-grade > vinyl boat name decals from STREETGLO.NET! > Choose any style of lettering you like! Design your decal online. > > HYPERLINK "http://www.streetglo.net/boat-lettering.html"Streetglo.net Boat > Name Lettering > > When you buy a new boat, a boat broker can usually arrange for a license > and payment of sales tax. The boat will be issued a license number > beginning with the issuing provincial government's "Letters" which you mark > on the boat in the required size and location. > > When you buy a used boat, you simply transfer the license by taking it with > a "bill of sale" signed by the previous owner to the provincial government > office and paying the sales tax. > > When you sell a boat, follow the instructions on the transfer form on the > reverse side of your Pleasure Craft Licence and give it to the new owner. > The new owner should contact the federal government to complete the > transfer. Search the blue pages in your telephone directory or our > HYPERLINK "http://boating.ncf.ca/linksgov.html"government index for > Customs, Revenue or Border Agency (names may change). > > When you license a boat, be sure to check its serial numbers and ensure > they match the plate on the vessel, on the bill of sale, and all government > paperwork. > > Section 11 of the Small Vessel Regulations states "The number allotted to a > vessel when it is first licensed shall be the permanent licence number of > that vessel and shall be retained for the vessel throughout any subsequent > transfer of ownership." > > You must license your dinghy if you plan to travel on any canals or travel > outside Canada where it is normally required. You must put the license > numbers on the dinghy. > > > Trailer licenses: > > > Get these at provincial Driver & Vehicle License Office - you can find > these in the phone book Blue Pages. You must have the ownership and a bill > of sale from the person or company you bought it from. In Ontario you pay > PST at 8%; in some provinces, it's HST (GST & PST) at about 15%. > > HYPERLINK "http://boating.ncf.ca/license.html#top"HYPERLINK > "http://boating.ncf.ca/license.html#top"Top of PageHYPERLINK > "http://boating.ncf.ca/license.html#top" > > > Registration > > > You must register larger vessels, or if you require a mortgage, otherwise > it's an option to provincial licensing. General requirements: > > *	Registration is required over 15 gross tons (or 12 metres long if it > has not been measured for tonnage) > *	Contact the nearest HYPERLINK > "http://boating.ncf.ca/linksgov.html#tc"Department of Transport Canada, > Office of Ship Registration. > *	You usually need to get a tonnage survey. > *	Markings must be block characters in contrasting colour 10.3 cm (4") > high. > *	Pleasure craft manufactured after 1978 must bear a decal indicating > it meets or exceeds minimum standards. [Decal requirements for measurement > appear to ignore registered boats which have already been professionally > "measured".] > > National Shipping Authority can take control of your registered boat in > times of crisis (war). For that reason, you will legally own only 2/3 of a > registered boat; one third is owned by the crown. Registration was really > designed for commercial vessels! > > New legislation February 2000 contained changes to the Canada Shipping Act > with new vessel categories and new fees for registration and transfers. > Contact any Ship Registration office, or Transport Canada. [HYPERLINK > "http://boating.ncf.ca/linksgov.html#tc"Government Index | HYPERLINK > "http://boating.ncf.ca/license-reg1999.html"Registration-1999] > > HYPERLINK "http://boating.ncf.ca/license.html#top"HYPERLINK > "http://boating.ncf.ca/license.html#top"Top of PageHYPERLINK > "http://boating.ncf.ca/license.html#top" > > > Licensing v.s. Registration > > > Registration is a procedure for documentation of ownership or title. > Licensing is a procedure which identifies a vessel as having paid sales tax > in a province or territory and does not necessarily imply ownership or > title. > > Patrick Julien (from Caelis International, one of Canada's major Coast > Guard and Transport Canada approved marine documentation consultancies), > sent me some interesting comments about licenses and registration. > > He mentioned that the term "register tonnage" for registered vessels is a > term of volume (e.g. one metric ton is equal to one metric meter). When we > got our own boat registered, we used to joke about how much coal we could > carry -- the measurement is really designed for cargo ships! I'm not sure, > but I think we can also get "called up" if there was a war (something about > Her Magesty's Navy). > > From Patrick: > > Licensing is not really the norm for expensive vessels, as owners usually > wish to obtain clear title and proof of ownership that comes with > registration. A license is simply a piece of paper which allows you to go > on the water; it has absolutely nothing to do with proof of ownership. We > recently dealt with the transfer of property of a vessel which had four > current and potentially valid licenses issued on it. You do not need to > prove you own the boat to get a license -- and boat thefts are rumoured to > be in the area of 15% of inventory in Canada. And what of banks and finance > companies chasing their security. > > A standard 36 foot and up cruiser with good interior living accomodations > normally meets this minimum measure. Many people think of this measurement > as weight, which is practically impossible for pleasure boats. Very few of > us have boats in this weight range (well, perhaps Bill Teron...). > > There are many advantages to actually registering a boat, not the least of > which are clear title, and sequence of title, and option to borrow against > the value of the boat as security (marine mortgage). Most foreign ports > will insist on vessel registration to ensure confirmation of ownership and > nationality of captain and vessel. HYPERLINK > "mailto:pjulien@...?Subject=BoatinginCanada.com%20query"Patrick > Julien (pjulien@...) (604)732-7382 > > If you plan to cruise to other countries, or just want to secure your > ownership, registration is a good idea. Of course, it costs more and > requires filling out forms, but you wouldn't buy a house without getting a > proper deed, would you? > > > Compliance Plates & Labels > > > Pleasure craft, fitted with or capable of being fitted with engine(s) > require a properly located Safety Compliance Notice issued by Fisheries and > Oceans Canada, Coast Guard - either a Capacity Label, Conformity Label, or > a Single Vessel Label. (HYPERLINK > "http://boating.ncf.ca/linksgov.html"Government directory: Office of > Boating Safety) > > HYPERLINK "http://boating.ncf.ca/license.html#top"HYPERLINK > "http://boating.ncf.ca/license.html#top"Top of PageHYPERLINK > "http://boating.ncf.ca/license.html#top" > > > More information: > > > 1.	HYPERLINK "http://boating.ncf.ca/linksgov.html"Canadian Government > Index - please use government sites for current regulations and laws: > > *	Vessel License - Revenue Canada, Customs and Excise, Border Control > *	Ship Registration - Transport Canada > *	Trailer licenses - provincial Driver & Vehicle License Office, > telephone book Blue Pages > *	License/regististration markings - Office of Boating Safety > (Transport Canada) > *	Pleasure boat regulations - Office of Boating Safety (Transport > Canada) > > 2.	HYPERLINK "http://boating.ncf.ca/buyaboat.html"Buying a boat - > choices, costs, protect yourself > 3.	HYPERLINK > "http://www.boatingwithdawsons.com/cmd.php?Clk=1143329""Buy a Boat with > Confidence" by Doug Dawson will save you costly errors and money when you > buy a boat! > 4.	HYPERLINK "http://boating.ncf.ca/boatnames.html""The Name Game" - > naming a boat is fun! > 5.	HYPERLINK "http://boating.ncf.ca/boatname-streetglo.html"Boat names > from STREETGLO.NET - marine-grade vinyl lettering > 6.	Other licenses: > > *	HYPERLINK "http://boating.ncf.ca/vhf.html"VHF ship radio license > (required outside Canada) > *	HYPERLINK "http://boating.ncf.ca/vhf.html#operatorlicense"VHF > operator license (RCOC) > *	HYPERLINK "http://boating.ncf.ca/pcoc.html"Licenses for boat > operation (PCOC) > > 7.	Canadian Coast Guard Info-line 1-800-267-6687. > 8.	Be sure to read Pat's HYPERLINK > "http://boating.ncf.ca/news.html"Boating News for changes to regulations. > 9.	HYPERLINK "http://boating.ncf.ca/loading.html"Boat loading table > 10.	Did you know HYPERLINK "http://boating.ncf.ca/tax-fees.html"Canadian > boaters pay many taxes and fees? > > HYPERLINK "http://boating.ncf.ca/license.html#top"TOP | HYPERLINK > "http://boating.ncf.ca/license.html#lic"License | HYPERLINK > "http://boating.ncf.ca/license.html#reg"Registration | HYPERLINK > "http://boating.ncf.ca/license.html#vs"Which one? | HYPERLINK > "http://boating.ncf.ca/license.html#links"References > > HYPERLINK "http://boating.ncf.ca/pcoc.html"Operator card   HYPERLINK > "http://boating.ncf.ca/license.html"Boat license   HYPERLINK > "http://boating.ncf.ca/vhf.html"VHF license   HYPERLINK > "http://boating.ncf.ca/laws.html"Laws   HYPERLINK > "http://boating.ncf.ca/tax-fees.html"Taxes   HYPERLINK > "http://boating.ncf.ca/equipment.html"Equipment   HYPERLINK > "http://boating.ncf.ca/news.html"News > > > > > > Bill > > Port Hope. Canada > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com [mailto:origamiboats@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Courtney Thomas > Sent: 17-Oct-05 4:22 PM > To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [origamiboats] Dgst1338-WantedBoatTrailer > > > > Bill, > > I still don't understand if I must pay taxes if I were to EXPORT my boat > from > the U.S. into Canada, that is, bring it in, register it as a Canadian > vessel > > whose home port would thereafter be in Canada, and leave it in Canada; but, > all the while remain a U.S. citizen. > > > >    _____ > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.12.1/136 - Release Date: 15/10/2005 |
9187|9187|2005-10-17 18:24:49|Gerd|MUST SEE!!|Alex, got the movie today and sat through it in one go. Great job  you did, both of you, I only wish I had had it before I built my  hull. If ever I build another one (looks like I might help with one  soon, here in the neighbourhood) I'll go a lot faster for sure.  If anybody still hesitates about starting his own boat, get the  movie and there will be no holding you back.  Thanks, Alex, for the great editing, absolutely clean, clear and  professional!! Put me down for any follow ups, the Return and the  Vengance of the origami boat and the Reloaded ... I'll pay unseen  and in advance ;-)   Gerd    The Yago project at http://www.justmueller.com/boats/|
9188|9144|2005-10-18 04:38:33|sae140|Re: lead in keels|As kids we used to melt-down scrap lead over the kitchen stove  and cast it into 'ingots' using the frog of a housebrick. I think this basic shape (suitably modified) would be ideal for  stacking lead into keels in layers.  Alternatively, make up some  molds from angle iron to make Toblerone-shaped ingots. To fill in the spaces, don't try melting-in lead.  It won't work  - unless the spaces are wide - you'll only end up capping-off the  voids.  Use lead shot instead - or a mix of shot, lead filings or  similar. The shot doesn't need to be pretty, so you could very  easily make your own.   Alternatively, try dropping small quantities of molten lead onto  a flat surface and cut up the wafer-thin plates into strips with  a pair of scissors. Brush/pack this stuff into the voids and hammer it down. Pour over  thin epoxy between layers only if you're really paranoid about  movement (except the top layer, if you're welding on a capping  plate.) If the voids are not that big, use sand/cement mix instead - a lot  less hassle, and I can't see a couple of percent cement making that  much difference to ballast weight calculations.  Personally I wouldn't pour bulk lead, but that's a preference thing. Colin|
9189|9160|2005-10-18 08:01:27|Bill Jaine|Re: Dgst1338-WantedBoatTrailer|HYPERLINK "http://www.tc.gc.ca/pol/nafta-alena/en/resource-manual/weight-dimension.htm "http://www.tc.gc.ca/pol/nafta-alena/en/resource-manual/weight-dimension.htm     Size regulations for oversize loads        Bill   Port Hope. Canada         -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.12.1/136 - Release Date: 15/10/2005    --  No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.12.2/140 - Release Date: 18/10/2005     [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]|
9190|9160|2005-10-18 08:35:41|Courtney Thomas|Re: Dgst1338-WantedBoatTrailer|Bill,  Thank you for your on-going effort to help  :-)  These regs apply to COMMERCIAL truckers.   In the U.S. we, of course, also have such regulations, probably about the  same, for commercial traffic.  In the U.S., I am not treated as a commercial operator and the tractor-trailer  is not treated as a commercial conveyance. The rig is considered a personal  vehicle and is restricted to be used to only haul my personal property, such  as a pleasure craft.  Do you, or anyone else, know if the same is true in Canada  ?  I realize this is a very small group of people and even in the U.S. where I  would guess it's more prevalent, it's an anomaly with law enforcement and  many have no experience dealing with it.  Cordially,  Courtney    On Tuesday 18 October 2005 04:58, Bill Jaine wrote: > HYPERLINK > "http://www.tc.gc.ca/pol/nafta-alena/en/resource-manual/weight-dimension.ht >m > "http://www.tc.gc.ca/pol/nafta-alena/en/resource-manual/weight-dimension.ht >m > > > > Size regulations for oversize loads > > > > > > Bill > > Port Hope. Canada > > > > > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.12.1/136 - Release Date: 15/10/2005 |
9191|9160|2005-10-18 14:51:26|Henri Naths|Re: Dgst1338-WantedBoatTrailer|Hi Courtney, Yes I believe the same applies for Canada,(at least back in the day I was  trucking) Henri (p.s. do you need any soft wood lumber or gas and oil down there... <grin> )  ----- Original Message -----  From: "Courtney Thomas" <ccthomas@...> To: <origamiboats@yahoogroups.com> Sent: 18 October, 2005 9:01 AM Subject: Re: [origamiboats] Dgst1338-WantedBoatTrailer   > Bill, > > Thank you for your on-going effort to help  :-) > > These regs apply to COMMERCIAL truckers. > > In the U.S. we, of course, also have such regulations, probably about the > same, for commercial traffic. > > In the U.S., I am not treated as a commercial operator and the  > tractor-trailer > is not treated as a commercial conveyance. The rig is considered a  > personal > vehicle and is restricted to be used to only haul my personal property,  > such > as a pleasure craft. > > Do you, or anyone else, know if the same is true in Canada  ? > > I realize this is a very small group of people and even in the U.S. where  > I > would guess it's more prevalent, it's an anomaly with law enforcement and > many have no experience dealing with it. > > Cordially, > > Courtney > > > On Tuesday 18 October 2005 04:58, Bill Jaine wrote: >> HYPERLINK >> "http://www.tc.gc.ca/pol/nafta-alena/en/resource-manual/weight-dimension.ht >>m >> "http://www.tc.gc.ca/pol/nafta-alena/en/resource-manual/weight-dimension.ht >>m >> >> >> >> Size regulations for oversize loads >> >> >> >> >> >> Bill >> >> Port Hope. Canada >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >> Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.12.1/136 - Release Date:  >> 15/10/2005 > > > > > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:  > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > |
9192|9179|2005-10-18 18:42:35|Michael Casling|Re: Boat Trailering|That is what I do when I want to work on the boat. Very convenient.  Michael    ----- Original Message -----    From: bert andjan    To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com    Sent: Monday, October 17, 2005 10:26 AM   Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Boat Trailering      The   nice thing is that you can bring the boat home to work   on her...and avoid the storage bills at the marinas.    Bert Eggers, Saginaw                    __________________________________    Yahoo! Music Unlimited    Access over 1 million songs. Try it free.   http://music.yahoo.com/unlimited/     To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com   To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com       SPONSORED LINKS British columbia canada  Vancouver island  Yacht           Victoria bc     ------------------------------------------------------------------------------   YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS       a..  Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web.            b..  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:      origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com            c..  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
9193|9135|2005-10-18 18:45:56|Michael Casling|Re: Wanted Boat Trailer for 37 foot Steel Sailboat|It is best to avoid the Coquihala in November and December. The snow is slushy and packs in to ice. January and February are better months for driving. That is a general rule and can change. I have seen snow in June up there.   Michael    ----- Original Message -----    From: Jim Douglas    To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com    Sent: Friday, October 14, 2005 9:56 PM   Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Wanted Boat Trailer for 37 foot Steel Sailboat     Thanks Jason.    As it happens I have a college buddy from Alberta with some    experience in this who's going to help me out.    I do know what you mean as I once jumped into a 27 foot motor home I    had just bought and drove her down the "coca cola" (thanks for the    appelation Michael) back to North Vancouver in November one year.     Well, it started to snow heavily, visibility was nearly gone except    for the fresh tracks and tail lights of tne car ahead....Man, that    was a white knuckler all the way for sure, especially near the    Vancouver end when the road takes that deep decent but I made    it...and no I won't be doing the same thing again.  Spring or summer    is plenty soon!!    JIm Douglas        --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "fishtronics"    <jason_kovatch@a...> wrote:   >   > For a boat with that beam there are wide-load permits involved as    well    > as a chase (or lead) car required for at least part of the trip.    Part    > of the outrageous cost comes from the part of the estimate where    the    > big rig and the chase car dead-head back. The trick is to line up    a    > puller who can make you a link in a circle route and avoid the    deadhead    > trip. That cuts the cost in about half. Then if you can chase the    rig,    > it saves more.   >    > I saw a guy on eBay auctioning boat deliveries for $1/mile, if you    are    > on his circle. I think if you contact some deliverers and can wait    till    > they can pick you up instead of dead-heading, and you will chase    > yourself, you can save maybe 75% of the earlier quote.    >    > Some of the quote may have also included some set-up or take-down,    > which you can help out with, if the puller is agreeable.   >    > Driving a big rig over the rockies as a novice might be an    adventure,    > but I would want to work up to it.   >         To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com   To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com     ------------------------------------------------------------------------------   YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS       a..  Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web.            b..  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:      origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com            c..  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
9194|9160|2005-10-18 20:35:26|Courtney Thomas|Re: Dgst1338-WantedBoatTrailer|Henri.  Good to hear from you   :-)  I hope personal ownership for personal use of tractor-trailer rigs  is still  the same in Canada, which I imagine is so. After all how big is this group  and how much revenue extraction do they represent !  Anywsy.....yeah, send all the wood, lumber and gas/oil ya got.......  Actually, that's not my sentiment all all. I wish Canada and the rest of the  world would cut the U.S. off and force reality down the throats of the morons  down here. It's gonna happen, one way or the other anyway, and better sooner  than later  :-(  This country is pitiful.  But I must say, I'm not comfortable with the way Canada has historically  managed it's affairs either.  Cordially, Courtney     On Tuesday 18 October 2005 11:51, Henri Naths wrote: > Hi Courtney, > Yes I believe the same applies for Canada,(at least back in the day I was > trucking) > Henri > (p.s. do you need any soft wood lumber or gas and oil down there... <grin> > ) ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Courtney Thomas" <ccthomas@...> > To: <origamiboats@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: 18 October, 2005 9:01 AM > Subject: Re: [origamiboats] Dgst1338-WantedBoatTrailer > > > Bill, > > > > Thank you for your on-going effort to help  :-) > > > > These regs apply to COMMERCIAL truckers. > > > > In the U.S. we, of course, also have such regulations, probably about the > > same, for commercial traffic. > > > > In the U.S., I am not treated as a commercial operator and the > > tractor-trailer > > is not treated as a commercial conveyance. The rig is considered a > > personal > > vehicle and is restricted to be used to only haul my personal property, > > such > > as a pleasure craft. > > > > Do you, or anyone else, know if the same is true in Canada  ? > > > > I realize this is a very small group of people and even in the U.S. where > > I > > would guess it's more prevalent, it's an anomaly with law enforcement and > > many have no experience dealing with it. > > > > Cordially, > > > > Courtney > > > > On Tuesday 18 October 2005 04:58, Bill Jaine wrote: > >> HYPERLINK > >> "http://www.tc.gc.ca/pol/nafta-alena/en/resource-manual/weight-dimension > >>.ht m > >> "http://www.tc.gc.ca/pol/nafta-alena/en/resource-manual/weight-dimension > >>.ht m > >> > >> > >> > >> Size regulations for oversize loads > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> Bill > >> > >> Port Hope. Canada > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> No virus found in this incoming message. > >> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > >> Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.12.1/136 - Release Date: > >> 15/10/2005 > > > > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links > > > |
9195|9144|2005-10-18 21:07:59|Gerald Niffenegger|Re: lead in keels|Some time ago I bought a wooden sailboat that had rotted from the top  down. The wood part made for a real hot fire. One of the goodies that  we salvaged was the plate steel keel with 3,000 kilos of pored lead. On  advice from this forum I cut the lead up with my chain saw. The boat  was 37 years old, the lead had been pored in small pores which allowed  me to cut it up much easier since the layers could be pried apart. The  layers were capped off with a layer of six inches of concrete. After  thirty-seven years of salt water the steel next to the lead and  concrete was in perfect condition and as a matter of fact I am using  several pieces in the boat that I am currently building.  Gerald|
9196|9144|2005-10-18 22:36:19|kingsknight4life|Re: lead in keels|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Gerald Niffenegger"  <niffeneggerniff@a...> wrote:  > > Some time ago I bought a wooden sailboat that had rotted from the   top   > down. The wood part made for a real hot fire. One of the goodies   that   > we salvaged was the plate steel keel with 3,000 kilos of pored   lead. On   > advice from this forum I cut the lead up with my chain saw. The   boat   > was 37 years old, the lead had been pored in small pores which   allowed   > me to cut it up much easier since the layers could be pried apart.   The   > layers were capped off with a layer of six inches of concrete.   After   > thirty-seven years of salt water the steel next to the lead and  > concrete was in perfect condition and as a matter of fact I am   using   > several pieces in the boat that I am currently building.  > Gerald >  Gerald Agood chainsaw is te best way to go. Tried everything else but the  chainsaw was the best, except for the "shavings". lol Rowland|
9197|9160|2005-10-18 22:58:02|Henri Naths|Re: Dgst1338-WantedBoatTrailer|I hear ya buddy, greed makes need. H   ----- Original Message -----  From: "Courtney Thomas" <ccthomas@...> To: <origamiboats@yahoogroups.com> Sent: 18 October, 2005 9:01 PM Subject: Re: [origamiboats] Dgst1338-WantedBoatTrailer   > Henri. > > Good to hear from you   :-) > > I hope personal ownership for personal use of tractor-trailer rigs  is  > still > the same in Canada, which I imagine is so. After all how big is this group > and how much revenue extraction do they represent ! > > Anywsy.....yeah, send all the wood, lumber and gas/oil ya got....... > > Actually, that's not my sentiment all all. I wish Canada and the rest of  > the > world would cut the U.S. off and force reality down the throats of the  > morons > down here. It's gonna happen, one way or the other anyway, and better  > sooner > than later  :-(  This country is pitiful. > > But I must say, I'm not comfortable with the way Canada has historically > managed it's affairs either. > > Cordially, > Courtney > > > On Tuesday 18 October 2005 11:51, Henri Naths wrote: >> Hi Courtney, >> Yes I believe the same applies for Canada,(at least back in the day I was >> trucking) >> Henri >> (p.s. do you need any soft wood lumber or gas and oil down there...  >> <grin> >> ) ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Courtney Thomas" <ccthomas@...> >> To: <origamiboats@yahoogroups.com> >> Sent: 18 October, 2005 9:01 AM >> Subject: Re: [origamiboats] Dgst1338-WantedBoatTrailer >> >> > Bill, >> > >> > Thank you for your on-going effort to help  :-) >> > >> > These regs apply to COMMERCIAL truckers. >> > >> > In the U.S. we, of course, also have such regulations, probably about  >> > the >> > same, for commercial traffic. >> > >> > In the U.S., I am not treated as a commercial operator and the >> > tractor-trailer >> > is not treated as a commercial conveyance. The rig is considered a >> > personal >> > vehicle and is restricted to be used to only haul my personal property, >> > such >> > as a pleasure craft. >> > >> > Do you, or anyone else, know if the same is true in Canada  ? >> > >> > I realize this is a very small group of people and even in the U.S.  >> > where >> > I >> > would guess it's more prevalent, it's an anomaly with law enforcement  >> > and >> > many have no experience dealing with it. >> > >> > Cordially, >> > >> > Courtney >> > >> > On Tuesday 18 October 2005 04:58, Bill Jaine wrote: >> >> HYPERLINK >> >> "http://www.tc.gc.ca/pol/nafta-alena/en/resource-manual/weight-dimension >> >>.ht m >> >> "http://www.tc.gc.ca/pol/nafta-alena/en/resource-manual/weight-dimension >> >>.ht m >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Size regulations for oversize loads >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Bill >> >> >> >> Port Hope. Canada >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> >> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >> >> Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.12.1/136 - Release Date: >> >> 15/10/2005 >> > >> > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com >> > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: >> > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com >> > Yahoo! Groups Links >> >> >> To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com >> To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: >> origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links >> >> >> > > > > > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:  > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > |
9198|9198|2005-10-18 23:05:32|kingsknight4life|Marinizing an engine|What is involved in marinizing an engine? I found an engine, I think,  but it needs to be marinized. Iwant ti to be skeg cooled and with a  dry exhaust. I know it needs a water cooled manifold, can these easily  be made or purchased? Is that all I need? Thanks Rowland PS the engine is a kubota 43 HP, for my Swain 36 of course|
9199|9198|2005-10-18 23:19:38|Abraham George|Re: Marinizing an engine|HI,  In my country (India) there is a company that still makes ancient kubota 10hp aircooled rope start diesel engine, (mostly for agriculture purpose) so I think you'll be needing only the sail drive or grear box. Pretty cheap also i guess for close to $800.   --- kingsknight4life <wildcatbjj@...> wrote:   > What is involved in marinizing an engine? I found an > engine, I think,  > but it needs to be marinized. Iwant ti to be skeg > cooled and with a  > dry exhaust. I know it needs a water cooled > manifold, can these easily  > be made or purchased? Is that all I need? > Thanks Rowland > PS the engine is a kubota 43 HP, for my Swain 36 of > course >  >  >  >     	 		  __________________________________  Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005  http://mail.yahoo.com|
9200|9198|2005-10-18 23:52:52|Courtney Thomas|Re: Marinizing an engine|How can I get in touch with the people in your country that sell this 10hp  rope start engine, please ?  Thank you,  Courtney    On Tuesday 18 October 2005 20:19, Abraham George wrote: > HI, > > In my country (India) there is a company that still > makes ancient kubota 10hp aircooled rope start diesel > engine, (mostly for agriculture purpose) so I think > you'll be needing only the sail drive or grear box. > Pretty cheap also i guess for close to $800. > > --- kingsknight4life <wildcatbjj@...> wrote: > > What is involved in marinizing an engine? I found an > > engine, I think, > > but it needs to be marinized. Iwant ti to be skeg > > cooled and with a > > dry exhaust. I know it needs a water cooled > > manifold, can these easily > > be made or purchased? Is that all I need? > > Thanks Rowland > > PS the engine is a kubota 43 HP, for my Swain 36 of > > course > > __________________________________ > Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 > http://mail.yahoo.com > > > > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links > > > |
9201|9201|2005-10-19 03:19:28|Alex Christie|large transport truck for towing origami boats|Heres a nice big truck that would haul our boats with ease -- for sale   in Vancouver, $3000 CDN:  http://www.buysell.com/root/detail/BC/  Heavy_Trucks_Equipment_amp_Trailers/4414/1/45749483/  _1979_INTERNATIONAL_TRANSPORTER_II.aspx  Alex|
9202|9198|2005-10-19 03:25:56|Gerald Niffenegger|Re: Marinizing an engine|You have probably found the correct motor for your boat.  Since you are going to use the skeg instead of a radiator that part is  pretty much covered.  You have a steel boat, the question seems to be ....... can you live  with the heat from the exhaust and maybe find a way to transfer some of  the exhaust heat to the hull. If you can keep sea water out of your  boat it would seem to be the best of all worlds. Gerald|
9203|9160|2005-10-19 05:17:16|Jim Douglas|Re: Dgst1338-WantedBoatTrailer|Courtney,  As you may be aware from my posts, I'm a Canadian from North  Vancouver, B.C. and am quite a long ways back in the construction  phase of getting my boat to water. Hell, I'm struggling to do even  that much, really.  But that said, there is more than couple of  ideas...call them dreams or visions that I hold dear involving  sailing and cruising and more than half of these involve taking my  own sweet time cruising through or about your country!  I've read, quite extensively, on the the internet of the experiences  of other Canadians heading south through US waters to get to Florida, the Caribean and beyond. You know, this kind of stuff for me is  still more fodder for the dream and keeps me going with my project.   But I have never yet heard of your US Customs People ever, ever  attempting to tax the value of our Canadian boats as we head south,  not even once.   I am sure that there must be some provision for US boats sojourning  in Canadian waters that gets around the need to pay the so  called "Harmonsied Tax"....someone also mentioned about leaving a  boat behind in Canada for a period of time to effect necessary  repairs.  I would be personally outraged if you or any US citizen were  required to pay the "Harmonized Tax" but keep in mind if you were  that when you eventually bring your boat south to US waters you  could also be DEEMED (key word/action) to be exporting her to the US  and therefore claim a refund of at least the GST portion of  the "haromonized Tax" which consists of the Federal Goods and  Services Tax at 7% across all Canadian Provinces, the locally  applicable Provincial Sales Tax constituting the remainder.  Getting  a refund from the provincial coffers could prove difficult although  it would be nonetheless equitable.  Courtney, I am a Canadian Tax Accountant and most of my practice  centers on the application or nonapplication of the Canadian Income  Tax Act to given situations.  I do not normally have much to do  about the concerns of import or export per se.  But that aside,  given the warm welcome that your people give ours as we go south,  I'll take it on myself to research this area and get back to you and  the group with the goods.  All the best for now  Jim Douglas North Vancouver, B.C.         mI would be personally outraged if this         I--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Courtney Thomas  <ccthomas@j...> wrote:  > > Bill, >  > I still don't understand if I must pay taxes if I were to EXPORT   my boat from   > the U.S. into Canada, that is, bring it in, register it as a   Canadian vessel   > whose home port would thereafter be in Canada, and leave it in   Canada; but,   > all the while remain a U.S. citizen. >  > Courtney >  >  > On Monday 17 October 2005 02:36 pm, Bill Jaine wrote: > > I don't think that windage was much of an issue but with a draft   of 5.75'  > > how high will she be when on the trailer. > > > > > > > > 50,000 lbs is a lot of weight > > > > > > > > Generally there are 2 sales taxes in Canada, GST (7%) which is   federal and  > > P(rovincial) Sales Tax (usually 8%) Â…Â…except on the east coast   where the  > > Federal Government collects the PST with the GST and calls it > > H(armonised)ST (15%), I paid GST because I bought the boat, when   I brought  > > my other boat back into Canada (as a returning citizen) I paid   no taxes.  > > > > > > > > If that doesn't have you confused nothing will :-) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > Port Hope. Canada > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com   [mailto:origamiboats@yahoogroups.com] On  > > Behalf Of Courtney Thomas > > Sent: 17-Oct-05 1:07 PM > > To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [origamiboats] Dgst1338-WantedBoatTrailer > > > > > > > > Bill, > > > > Great information. Thank you :-) > > > > Did you notice much windage when hauling ? My boat's draft is   5.75' and the  > > rig + boat = 50,000 lbs [approx]. > > > > I have a bow support and 3 support stanchions w/pad for ea side   and also  > > three > > 4" winching poly straps. Sound adequate ? > > > > Pardon my obtuseness, but are you saying that..... if i import   my boat into  > > Canada that i owe no taxes since it falls under NAFTA, i.e. the   Free Trade  > > agreement. > > > > I understood that sales tax in Nova Scotia, for example, was 15%   and that  > > if I > > imported the boat there that I'd owe 15%. Is that wrong ? > > > > Cordially, > > > > Courtney > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > SPONSORED LINKS > > > > > > HYPERLINK > > "http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?  t=ms&k=British+columbia+canada&w1=British+col  > >u > >   mbia+canada&w2=Vancouver+island&w3=Yacht&w4=Victoria+bc&c=4&s=79&.sig =9R67W  > >C gMr5OvBLa-xHHyGA"British columbia canada > > > > HYPERLINK > > "http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?  t=ms&k=Vancouver+island&w1=British+columbia+c  > >a > >   nada&w2=Vancouver+island&w3=Yacht&w4=Victoria+bc&c=4&s=79&.sig=yL5WOt gPnpYA  > >m d1P5N16cw"Vancouver island > > > > HYPERLINK > > "http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?  t=ms&k=Yacht&w1=British+columbia+canada&w2=Va  > >n > >   couver+island&w3=Yacht&w4=Victoria+bc&c=4&s=79&.sig=VvQDFUjkrcc6EJ4xX P0vjg"  > >Y acht > > > > > > HYPERLINK > > "http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?  t=ms&k=Victoria+bc&w1=British+columbia+canada  > >& > >   w2=Vancouver+island&w3=Yacht&w4=Victoria+bc&c=4&s=79&.sig=QTHu1FWCcMW sTCz7v  > >G yGdg"Victoria bc > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >    _____ > > > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > > > > > > > *         Visit your group "HYPERLINK > > "http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats"origamiboats" on the   web.  > > > > > > *         To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > >  HYPERLINK > > "mailto:origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?  subject=Unsubscribe"origam  > >i boats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > *         Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the HYPERLINK > > "http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/"Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > > > > > > >    _____ > > > > > > -- > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > > Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.12.1/136 - Release Date:   15/10/2005  > |
9204|9198|2005-10-19 09:34:17|J & H Fuller|Re: Marinizing an engine|kingsknight4life Wrote    Sent: October 18, 2005  marinizing an engine? I found an engine, I think,   but it needs to be marinized. Iwant ti to be skeg cooled and with a   dry exhaust. I know it needs a water cooled manifold, can these easily   be made or purchased? Is that all I need?   Thanks Rowland   PS the engine is a kubota 43 HP, for my Swain 36 of course     Aren't Beta motors actually marinized Kubotas?  Try Beta diesel on Google for details.   J ohn.    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- --   -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.12.4/142 - Release Date: 18/10/2005   [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]|
9205|9201|2005-10-19 10:00:43|Henri Naths|Re: large transport truck for towing origami boats|Alex, Could not get link to work. wife ok'd DVD. please send instructions. H.   ----- Original Message -----  From: "Alex Christie" <achristie@...> To: <origamiboats@yahoogroups.com> Sent: 19 October, 2005 1:15 AM Subject: [origamiboats] large transport truck for towing origami boats   > Heres a nice big truck that would haul our boats with ease -- for sale > in Vancouver, $3000 CDN: > > http://www.buysell.com/root/detail/BC/ > Heavy_Trucks_Equipment_amp_Trailers/4414/1/45749483/ > _1979_INTERNATIONAL_TRANSPORTER_II.aspx > > Alex > > > > > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:  > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > |
9206|9198|2005-10-19 10:09:38|khooper_fboats|Re: Marinizing an engine|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Courtney Thomas <ccthomas@j...> wrote:  > > How can I get in touch with the people in your country that sell  this 10hp   > rope start engine, please ?   This can't be the engine he means but it is a pull-start 10-horse aircooled diesel:  http://launtop.com/ebusiness/en/index.asp  I understand this exact engine is re-branded and sold by Yanmar as their aircooled diesel line. Ridiculously cheap when branded as Launtop. This is probably what I'm going to use in the 40-footer (yes!) and I will carry a turnkey spare as well. Maybe a third one for dinghy outboard.  --Hoop|
9207|9160|2005-10-19 10:38:59|Carl Volkwein|Re: Dgst1338-WantedBoatTrailer|From Carl Volkwein,     What about C.D.L's, and log books?        would we need to keep up on those or other things? i guess that's some of the things most law enforcement officers aren't too familier with?  Henri Naths <c_hnaths@...> wrote: Hi Courtney, Yes I believe the same applies for Canada,(at least back in the day I was  trucking) Henri (p.s. do you need any soft wood lumber or gas and oil down there... <grin> )  ----- Original Message -----  From: "Courtney Thomas" <ccthomas@...> To: <origamiboats@yahoogroups.com> Sent: 18 October, 2005 9:01 AM Subject: Re: [origamiboats] Dgst1338-WantedBoatTrailer   > Bill, > > Thank you for your on-going effort to help  :-) > > These regs apply to COMMERCIAL truckers. > > In the U.S. we, of course, also have such regulations, probably about the > same, for commercial traffic. > > In the U.S., I am not treated as a commercial operator and the  > tractor-trailer > is not treated as a commercial conveyance. The rig is considered a  > personal > vehicle and is restricted to be used to only haul my personal property,  > such > as a pleasure craft. > > Do you, or anyone else, know if the same is true in Canada  ? > > I realize this is a very small group of people and even in the U.S. where  > I > would guess it's more prevalent, it's an anomaly with law enforcement and > many have no experience dealing with it. > > Cordially, > > Courtney > > > On Tuesday 18 October 2005 04:58, Bill Jaine wrote: >> HYPERLINK >> "http://www.tc.gc.ca/pol/nafta-alena/en/resource-manual/weight-dimension.ht >>m >> "http://www.tc.gc.ca/pol/nafta-alena/en/resource-manual/weight-dimension.ht >>m >> >> >> >> Size regulations for oversize loads >> >> >> >> >> >> Bill >> >> Port Hope. Canada >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >> Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.12.1/136 - Release Date:  >> 15/10/2005 > > > > > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:  > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > >     To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com     --------------------------------- YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS        Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web.        To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:  origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com        Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.    ---------------------------------    		 ---------------------------------  Yahoo! Music Unlimited - Access over 1 million songs. Try it free.  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
9208|9160|2005-10-19 11:18:47|Courtney Thomas|Re: Dgst1338-WantedBoatTrailer|Those are requirements for commercial operators.  Courtney    On Wednesday 19 October 2005 07:38, Carl Volkwein wrote: > From Carl Volkwein, >     What about C.D.L's, and log books? > >      would we need to keep up on those or other things? i guess that's some > of the things most law enforcement officers aren't too familier with? > > Henri Naths <c_hnaths@...> wrote: > Hi Courtney, > Yes I believe the same applies for Canada,(at least back in the day I was > trucking) > Henri > (p.s. do you need any soft wood lumber or gas and oil down there... <grin> > ) ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Courtney Thomas" <ccthomas@...> > To: <origamiboats@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: 18 October, 2005 9:01 AM > Subject: Re: [origamiboats] Dgst1338-WantedBoatTrailer > > > Bill, > > > > Thank you for your on-going effort to help  :-) > > > > These regs apply to COMMERCIAL truckers. > > > > In the U.S. we, of course, also have such regulations, probably about the > > same, for commercial traffic. > > > > In the U.S., I am not treated as a commercial operator and the > > tractor-trailer > > is not treated as a commercial conveyance. The rig is considered a > > personal > > vehicle and is restricted to be used to only haul my personal property, > > such > > as a pleasure craft. > > > > Do you, or anyone else, know if the same is true in Canada  ? > > > > I realize this is a very small group of people and even in the U.S. where > > I > > would guess it's more prevalent, it's an anomaly with law enforcement and > > many have no experience dealing with it. > > > > Cordially, > > > > Courtney > > > > On Tuesday 18 October 2005 04:58, Bill Jaine wrote: > >> HYPERLINK > >> "http://www.tc.gc.ca/pol/nafta-alena/en/resource-manual/weight-dimension > >>.ht m > >> "http://www.tc.gc.ca/pol/nafta-alena/en/resource-manual/weight-dimension > >>.ht m > >> > >> > >> > >> Size regulations for oversize loads > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> Bill > >> > >> Port Hope. Canada > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> No virus found in this incoming message. > >> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > >> Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.12.1/136 - Release Date: > >> 15/10/2005 > > > > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > --------------------------------- > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > >     Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web. > >     To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >  origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > >     Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > > --------------------------------- > > > > > --------------------------------- >  Yahoo! Music Unlimited - Access over 1 million songs. Try it free. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links > > > |
9209|9160|2005-10-19 12:06:34|Henri Naths|Re: Dgst1338-WantedBoatTrailer|Hi Carl, I know one thing about d.o.t.'s , they can shut you down if you looked at  them the wrong way. From  side wall weather checks in your tires to  scratches in your windshield. If it's an older truck, your hooped.  Especially in B.C. The road gods will make your life a (expensive) living  hell. No matter how mechanically sound the truck is. And travelling in from  an other provinces to b.c. I think the rule is one trip per year or the life  of the truck, Or whatever the weight scale guys feels like on that day,  without the provincial insurance which cost several thousands of dollars.  The rules seem to be pretty vague. Memory fails me now, I've maybe blocked  all that out, but there seem to be a special interprovincial insurance you  have to get before leaving. One trick is to get I.C.B.C. insurance which  requires a b.c. address but could save you thousands in superficial repairs  and down time. Polish up the old beast, use black silicone on any cracks in  the sidewall of the tires and sidewall black polish. Be careful how you  answer the verbal questions the insurance agent will ask you. You have to  have a back haul. I hesitated to answer what my back haul was once because  it was a complicated issue, and the insurance jumped to commercial rate. I  tried to convince the woman the complicated matter still amounted it being  my own goods but to no avail. I didn't pay the extra 3000.00 dollars they  wanted, instead sold the truck (on paper) to a farmer friend of mine and put  it on his fleet farm insurance and paid him/ insurance/ plate the $275.00  required and I was good to go. Sorry probably alot of rambling here. Henri  ----- Original Message -----  From: "Carl Volkwein" <carlvolkwein@...> To: <origamiboats@yahoogroups.com> Sent: 19 October, 2005 8:38 AM Subject: Re: [origamiboats] Dgst1338-WantedBoatTrailer   > From Carl Volkwein, >    What about C.D.L's, and log books? > >     would we need to keep up on those or other things? i guess that's some  > of the things most law enforcement officers aren't too familier with? > > Henri Naths <c_hnaths@...> wrote: > Hi Courtney, > Yes I believe the same applies for Canada,(at least back in the day I was > trucking) > Henri > (p.s. do you need any soft wood lumber or gas and oil down there...  > <grin> ) > ----- Original Message -----  > From: "Courtney Thomas" <ccthomas@...> > To: <origamiboats@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: 18 October, 2005 9:01 AM > Subject: Re: [origamiboats] Dgst1338-WantedBoatTrailer > > >> Bill, >> >> Thank you for your on-going effort to help  :-) >> >> These regs apply to COMMERCIAL truckers. >> >> In the U.S. we, of course, also have such regulations, probably about the >> same, for commercial traffic. >> >> In the U.S., I am not treated as a commercial operator and the >> tractor-trailer >> is not treated as a commercial conveyance. The rig is considered a >> personal >> vehicle and is restricted to be used to only haul my personal property, >> such >> as a pleasure craft. >> >> Do you, or anyone else, know if the same is true in Canada  ? >> >> I realize this is a very small group of people and even in the U.S. where >> I >> would guess it's more prevalent, it's an anomaly with law enforcement and >> many have no experience dealing with it. >> >> Cordially, >> >> Courtney >> >> >> On Tuesday 18 October 2005 04:58, Bill Jaine wrote: >>> HYPERLINK >>> "http://www.tc.gc.ca/pol/nafta-alena/en/resource-manual/weight-dimension.ht >>>m >>> "http://www.tc.gc.ca/pol/nafta-alena/en/resource-manual/weight-dimension.ht >>>m >>> >>> >>> >>> Size regulations for oversize loads >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Bill >>> >>> Port Hope. Canada >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >>> Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.12.1/136 - Release Date: >>> 15/10/2005 >> >> >> >> >> To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com >> To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: >> origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com >> Yahoo! Groups Links >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:  > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > --------------------------------- > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > >    Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web. > >    To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > >    Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > > --------------------------------- > > > > > --------------------------------- > Yahoo! Music Unlimited - Access over 1 million songs. Try it free. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:  > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > |
9210|9210|2005-10-19 14:22:56|mickeyolaf|Marinizing an Engine|My 60hp Yanmar's exhaust is cooled by means of a blower. The exhaust  pipe runs aft within a 4" aluminum tube which has cold air forced down  it by means of a 10,000 hour lifespan blower. The blower runs when the  engine runs and for a few minutes after shutdown. Fresh air from two  4" inlets lets cold air into the engine room where it is then blown  out with the exhaust. The inlets also supply the air for the engine.  Two mufflers are set up inline within a 12" square aluminum box which  also is cooled via the blown in air. There is no salt water in the  system or in my boat. You can put your hand on the outer tube when the  engine is running. The engine room air is always fresh and smells are  also exhausted. The engine is cooled via the skeg cooler as per  Brent's boats. The downside is the extra amp draw of the blower and the blower noise.  More engine room noise insulation is required. Also other boaters will  be pointing out to you that your exhaust water pump has failed cause  there isn't water coming out of the exhaust when the engine is  running. Sorry folks but there ain't one to fail.|
9211|9211|2005-10-19 15:25:19|prairiemaidca|Trailer Hauling|HI All:  As a comercial trucker for the last 30 years and having to  pull rigs over a 100ft long and 63,000kg. I've looked into some of the  ways to haul my boat.  In Alberta if you are a farmer using your farm  plates, driving the rig yourself and hauling your own items you don't  even need a class one license for a tractor trailer and you are not  subject to the hours of service regs like a commercial trucker.  You  will require an air brake endorsement if the rig is so equiped.  B.C.  will let you through although their comments are that they don't like  it one bit.  It really is a grey area as far as the scale personal are  concerned when you use a commercial tractor and personl plates like you  would on a large 5th wheel or motor home.  Even they don't seem to have  the definitve answer when I asked.  I think I'll try the Minister of  transportation for Alberta and see what they say.  I'd be worried about  having to make the annual inspection for a commercial vehicle if it is  required even using personal plates.  Martin Forster (Prairie Maid)|
9212|9211|2005-10-19 15:59:18|Courtney Thomas|Re: Trailer Hauling|Are you Canadian and do you primarily or only haul in Canada ?  In any case, since we're talking about a quite small number of people that  have a 'personal' tractor-trailer, here in the U.S. we who do belong to that  class are treated as would a farmer and as you indicated.  I just had my rig officially inspected by a certified shop here in the U.S.  and have the documentation. I have never been a commercial operator or owner.  I am a U.S. citizen, insured, inspected and licensed [not CDL] and am U.S.  legal.  Will I be all right to haul ONLY my personal boat up to Nova Scotia from Maine  for sailing and exactly how do you recommend that this be done ? All this  will occur only in Nova Scotia, in which I own a house but do not live there  full time.  If Canada is like the U.S. in this regard, it'll be viewed as a revenue  opportunity and something else over which some bureaucrat can preside  :-)  My experience on both sides of the border is replete with arbitrariness,  arrogance and incompetence.  Appreciatively,  Courtney    On Wednesday 19 October 2005 12:24, prairiemaidca wrote: > HI All:  As a comercial trucker for the last 30 years and having to > pull rigs over a 100ft long and 63,000kg. I've looked into some of the > ways to haul my boat.  In Alberta if you are a farmer using your farm > plates, driving the rig yourself and hauling your own items you don't > even need a class one license for a tractor trailer and you are not > subject to the hours of service regs like a commercial trucker.  You > will require an air brake endorsement if the rig is so equiped.  B.C. > will let you through although their comments are that they don't like > it one bit.  It really is a grey area as far as the scale personal are > concerned when you use a commercial tractor and personl plates like you > would on a large 5th wheel or motor home.  Even they don't seem to have > the definitve answer when I asked.  I think I'll try the Minister of > transportation for Alberta and see what they say.  I'd be worried about > having to make the annual inspection for a commercial vehicle if it is > required even using personal plates.  Martin Forster (Prairie Maid) > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links > > > |
9213|9211|2005-10-19 16:44:56|prairiemaidca|Trailer Hauling|Hi All:  My advise to anyone crossing any lines, state, provincial or  international is to contact the Ministry of transportation for that  particular jurisdiction and if possible get their rules or laws that  pertain to your situation in writting and then you can present that to  any authority that wishs to check you out.  You should be able to get  all the contact info from their government web sites.  My trucking has   all been done in the three western provinces and even that can be  interesting as they all want it done their way.  Their is a movement to  try and create a national standard for all commercial trucking accross  Canada but getting them to all agree, is like being a ref at a day care  for three year olds.   Martin Forster (Prairie Maid)|
9214|9214|2005-10-19 16:51:12|prairiemaidca|engine shaft alignment|Hi All:  Does anyone have any tips on gettng the motor/gear lined up  with the prop shaft.  I'm not having much fun with this the last couple  of days. Nigel Calder's book recomends the use of feeler gauges but no  mention of what tolerence would be acceptable.  I was going to use a  dial indicator but there really is no room down there for that type of  instrument.  Martin Forster (Prairie Maid)|
9215|9214|2005-10-19 17:40:00|denis buggy|Re: engine shaft alignment|dear martin the feeler gauges will set a propshaft pully  ,however you will have to play with it and find the sweet spot not too close to the flange and not too far away.  on your metric set you will see 20 or 30  ( thickness of writing paper)   on your feeler blades  if you get this clearance all round then all the works will be able to take the pulling together of the flanges  with the bolts , this will not be your problem however shimming the engine mounts is time consuming and have your shims drilled to pass the engine mount bolts through and work to make  the engine  too high  and settle and shake  mountings  then grind the last shim with an angle grinder to set the heights  and tack a little weld on the shim pack  to hold them together  as the   vibration  and oil will shake them loose . denis    ----- Original Message -----    From: prairiemaidca    To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com    Sent: Wednesday, October 19, 2005 9:49 PM   Subject: [origamiboats] engine shaft alignment     Hi All:  Does anyone have any tips on gettng the motor/gear lined up    with the prop shaft.  I'm not having much fun with this the last couple    of days. Nigel Calder's book recomends the use of feeler gauges but no    mention of what tolerence would be acceptable.  I was going to use a    dial indicator but there really is no room down there for that type of    instrument.  Martin Forster (Prairie Maid)        To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com   To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com       SPONSORED LINKS British columbia canada  Vancouver island  Yacht           Victoria bc     ------------------------------------------------------------------------------   YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS       a..  Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web.            b..  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:      origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com            c..  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
9216|9144|2005-10-19 17:49:12|Carl Volkwein|Re: lead in keels|Carl Volkwein wrote;        What about a piece of pipe the same width as your keel, with two holes with threads taped(or nuts welded onto) pore the lead into one with the other for a vent, and fill-er-up with lead, then weld the whole shebang onto the bottom of your keel. It would keep the weight as low as possible, and no need to use a baffle or anything else to encapsulate the lead or keep it from comeing into contact with say a water tank for instance? just a thought. you could pore the lead in a less awcward position etc. then cap it in place with bolts sawn off flush with the holes, cut the heads off the bolts and weld them to the assembley,  Bill Jaine <anacapa@...> wrote: A good way to heat the lead is to use the burner from an old gas water heater and put a propane tank onto it.    If you are using wheelweights be prepared for having to dispose of a lot of dross.    When we were casting keels we used a (very large because it was a commercial operation) burner to keep the top of the cast keel melted and avoid separation…but then we were doing this for racing boats….on your own you could just use a propane burner and let the layers melt together.    While you have the pot cooking I suggest that you also make a few kellets, Take a couple of tomato juice cans, Fill them full of lead. Sink into the top of the can 2 heavy metal rods the width of your anchor rode apart and sticking out of the lead about 6”, first bend the rods at the top, so that the top 3” forms an upside down U (n), make sure the open parts oppose each other so that the rode can be slipped in between them then the can rotated 90 degrees and then the rode will be held trapped between the 2 rods but can slip un and down    n n  l l  l l      Bill   Port Hope. Canada    -----Original Message----- From: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com [mailto:origamiboats@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Alex Christie Sent: 17-Oct-05 5:08 AM To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Subject: [origamiboats] lead in keels    The Austins did a neat trick with their lead -- they cast it into small  bricks with a triangular cross-section and placed these vertically,  really stuffing those keels tight. The triangular section allowed them  to be packed so tightly that there were hardly any gaps. I believe  they poured a small amount of lead onto each layer of vertical  triangular bricks to lock them in. Seemed like a neat and tidy way of  accomplishing a stinking job, by avoiding the need to 1) move a large  mass of lead all at once, 2) melt all lead at once.  All the casting of the triangular bricks was able to be done out in the  open, of course, where the best ventilation is.  I am wondering if might be a good idea still to warm up the solid lead  that is in place before pouring in the lead that is destined to fill  the interstices, otherwise the lead might solidify before it gets right  to the bottom due to the massive heat sink that cold lead might  represent. Does anyone have exprerience with this? Is the molten lead  liquid enough to make it to the bottom and fill all cracks before  solidifying?  Alex   > melting chunks and try to melt around them. Does that make sense? >     [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]    To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com      _____   YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS     * Visit your group "HYPERLINK "http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats"origamiboats" on the web.   * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HYPERLINK "mailto:origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe"origami boats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com   * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the HYPERLINK "http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/"Yahoo! Terms of Service.     _____    -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.12.1/136 - Release Date: 15/10/2005    --  No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.12.1/136 - Release Date: 15/10/2005    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]     To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com  Yahoo! Groups Links          		 ---------------------------------  Yahoo! Music Unlimited - Access over 1 million songs. Try it free.  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]|
9217|9211|2005-10-19 17:49:40|Michael Casling|Re: Trailer Hauling|Trying to get info in BC is not easy. There are new rules for maximum GVW for pickup trucks. Trying to get the info has proved impossible for me. What I did discover is the rules do not apply for vehicles older than 1995, but I always suspect I will be stopped in my 1978 truck.  What the transport folks kept telling me is that there is a new class of licence for folks hauling heavy loads, towing fifth wheels and such. This is for vehicles that do not have air brakes, just heavy stuff normally pulled by a pickup, 1/2 3/4 or one ton. I have the study book and will write this test sometime soon. I will take the farm truck and stock trailer for the raod test.  My 1978 truck is more capable of hauling a load than the new trucks, but I think I will get stopped anyway. In the past I have been asked about the height, 13 feet 4 inches, but never the width, 9 feet six inches. If plans go accordingly I will be taking my boat to the ocean the summer of 006.  Michael    ----- Original Message -----    From: prairiemaidca    To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com    Sent: Wednesday, October 19, 2005 12:24 PM   Subject: [origamiboats] Trailer Hauling     HI All:  As a comercial trucker for the last 30 years and having to    pull rigs over a 100ft long and 63,000kg. I've looked into some of the    ways to haul my boat.  In Alberta if you are a farmer using your farm    plates, driving the rig yourself and hauling your own items you don't    even need a class one license for a tractor trailer and you are not    subject to the hours of service regs like a commercial trucker.  You    will require an air brake endorsement if the rig is so equiped.  B.C.    will let you through although their comments are that they don't like    it one bit.  It really is a grey area as far as the scale personal are    concerned when you use a commercial tractor and personl plates like you    would on a large 5th wheel or motor home.  Even they don't seem to have    the definitve answer when I asked.  I think I'll try the Minister of    transportation for Alberta and see what they say.  I'd be worried about    having to make the annual inspection for a commercial vehicle if it is    required even using personal plates.  Martin Forster (Prairie Maid)        To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com   To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com     ------------------------------------------------------------------------------   YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS       a..  Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web.            b..  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:      origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com            c..  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
9218|9198|2005-10-19 23:24:58|gschnell|Re: Marinizing an engine|I'm no expert on Marinizing an engine, but here's what I have done. Comments Welcome! I'm using a little VW 1.8L diesel from an '86 Jetta. I am using the skeg as my "radiator" and plumbing the engine pretty much as it would be in an automtive application, complete with thermostat control. The cooling system holds 68 liters of antifreeze/water mix and also serves as waterheater (house water system) via a heatexchanger plumbed as though it were the automotive heater. The cooling water returning from the skeg cools two refrigeration coils (dual refrigeration - engine drive & 12VDC) and the engine oil. Flow to/from the skeg is controlled by the engine thermostat and a temperature control valve on the cooler line (bypass). I have run an insulated SS dry exhaust, complete with vacuum-break and muffler, out thru the transom to exit below the waterline. I have NOT cooled my manifolds, but instead, I am allowing the engine to draw intake air from the engine bay, thereby "vacuuming" the bay as it runs. I am providing filtered fresh air from an  intake port inside the combings, to replenish the engine bay air. I expect a slight decline in HP due to the warm air intake, but I have sufficient HP, so I don't care.  Hope this gives you some ideas. I'd be interested in feedback. This system is relatively untested. Gord Schnell Note: Pathfinder Yachts of California used these engines quite successfully for more than a decade. I was aboard on in Squamish. Quiet and smooth. It had been marinized. Pathfinder is now located in Quebec and marinizing components are available thru them and from various European companies...expensive!!! Hence my decision to go the path I have outlined. GS  kingsknight4life wrote:   >  What is involved in marinizing an engine? I found an engine, I think, > > but it needs to be marinized. Iwant ti to be skeg cooled and with a > dry exhaust. I know it needs a water cooled manifold, can these easily > > be made or purchased? Is that all I need? > Thanks Rowland > PS the engine is a kubota 43 HP, for my Swain 36 of course > > > > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > SPONSORED LINKS >      British columbia canada       Vancouver island      Yacht      Victoria bc   > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > >    +  Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web. > >    +  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >       origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > >    +  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of >      Service. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- >    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]|
9219|9198|2005-10-20 00:16:44|Paul J. Thompson|Re: Marinizing an engine|Hi,  A question, I have been told that paint severely affects the rate at  which heat can be dissipated through steel, has anyone found this to be  a problem?  Regards,  Paul  gschnell wrote:   >I'm no expert on Marinizing an engine, but here's what I have done. >Comments Welcome! >I'm using a little VW 1.8L diesel from an '86 Jetta. I am using the skeg >as my "radiator" and plumbing the engine pretty much as it would be in >an automtive application, complete with thermostat control. The cooling >system holds 68 liters of antifreeze/water mix and also serves as >waterheater (house water system) via a heatexchanger plumbed as though >it were the automotive heater. The cooling water returning from the skeg >cools two refrigeration coils (dual refrigeration - engine drive & >12VDC) and the engine oil. Flow to/from the skeg is controlled by the >engine thermostat and a temperature control valve on the cooler line >(bypass). >I have run an insulated SS dry exhaust, complete with vacuum-break and >muffler, out thru the transom to exit below the waterline. I have NOT >cooled my manifolds, but instead, I am allowing the engine to draw >intake air from the engine bay, thereby "vacuuming" the bay as it runs. >I am providing filtered fresh air from an  intake port inside the >combings, to replenish the engine bay air. I expect a slight decline in >HP due to the warm air intake, but I have sufficient HP, so I don't >care. > >Hope this gives you some ideas. I'd be interested in feedback. This >system is relatively untested. >Gord Schnell >Note: Pathfinder Yachts of California used these engines quite >successfully for more than a decade. I was aboard on in Squamish. Quiet >and smooth. It had been marinized. Pathfinder is now located in Quebec >and marinizing components are available thru them and from various >European companies...expensive!!! >Hence my decision to go the path I have outlined. >GS > >kingsknight4life wrote: > >   > >> What is involved in marinizing an engine? I found an engine, I think, >> >>but it needs to be marinized. Iwant ti to be skeg cooled and with a >>dry exhaust. I know it needs a water cooled manifold, can these easily >> >>be made or purchased? Is that all I need? >>Thanks Rowland >>PS the engine is a kubota 43 HP, for my Swain 36 of course >> >> >> >>To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com >>To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: >>origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com >> >> >> >>SPONSORED LINKS >> >>     >> >    British columbia canada       Vancouver island      Yacht > >    Victoria bc > >   > >>----------------------------------------------------------------------- >>YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS >> >>   +  Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web. >> >>   +  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >>      origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com >> >>   +  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of >>     Service. >> >>----------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >>     >> > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > >To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com >To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com  >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > >  > > > > > >   > |
9220|9220|2005-10-20 00:40:57|Gary|Barrie Farrell|For those on the BC coast who know Barrie I am looking to return a  book he lent me.  Email or phone would be helpful.  I think he may be  living aboard somewhere in the Pender Island vicinity.  Thanks... Gary|
9221|9198|2005-10-20 01:24:06|Abraham George|Re: Marinizing an engine|Hi,  The only catch is that they don't export the engines either you or someone has to come here and get the engine. If you wish I can do the liasoning with the company.   BTW this engine in made in India....    --- khooper_fboats <bighouse@...> wrote:   > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Courtney Thomas > <ccthomas@j...> > wrote: > > > > How can I get in touch with the people in your > country that sell > this 10hp  > > rope start engine, please ? >  > This can't be the engine he means but it is a > pull-start 10-horse > aircooled diesel: >  > http://launtop.com/ebusiness/en/index.asp >  > I understand this exact engine is re-branded and > sold by Yanmar as > their aircooled diesel line. Ridiculously cheap when > branded as > Launtop. This is probably what I'm going to use in > the 40-footer > (yes!) and I will carry a turnkey spare as well. > Maybe a third one for > dinghy outboard. >  > --Hoop >  >  >  >     	 		  __________________________________  Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005  http://mail.yahoo.com|
9222|9198|2005-10-20 01:39:26|Abraham George|Re: Marinizing an engine|Should I get couple of these for you ??? U take care of the shipping and handling charges and the costs. Is any of your sailing friends coming this way so that shipping cost can be saved.  --- khooper_fboats <bighouse@...> wrote:   > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Courtney Thomas > <ccthomas@j...> > wrote: > > > > How can I get in touch with the people in your > country that sell > this 10hp  > > rope start engine, please ? >  > This can't be the engine he means but it is a > pull-start 10-horse > aircooled diesel: >  > http://launtop.com/ebusiness/en/index.asp >  > I understand this exact engine is re-branded and > sold by Yanmar as > their aircooled diesel line. Ridiculously cheap when > branded as > Launtop. This is probably what I'm going to use in > the 40-footer > (yes!) and I will carry a turnkey spare as well. > Maybe a third one for > dinghy outboard. >  > --Hoop >  >  >  >     	 		  __________________________________  Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005  http://mail.yahoo.com|
9223|9198|2005-10-20 01:40:18|Gerald Niffenegger|Re: Marinizing an engine|GS A couple years ago I installed a new 1.9 VW in a 32 foot wooden  sailboat. I ran the original dry exhaust manifold. The engine was  cooled using fresh water and a sea water heat exchanger. The output  side of the sea water heat exchanger ran into the two inch rubber  exhaust tube and out the transom above water line with no muffler in  the system. I installed the motor knowing I would someday sell the boat without  the motor. The small amount of noise at the transom sounded great and  I attributed the great sound to the very large sea water pump. A  large truck air filter killed the noise inside the boat. I used the  electric fan from a car radiator as a bilge fan.  The motor is now setting on my shop floor and I am getting it ready  for a new 36 foot glass racing sailboat. I have not yet worked out a  good combination for the thermostat and the engine always ran cooler  than I wanted it to, at about 160 degrees. That may account for the  fact that even after running the engine on a warm day I need to cycle  the glow plugs to get it to start. I ran a v belt setup for my sea  water pump and was not happy with it. I am changing that to direct  drive off the front of the crankshaft. My steel boat has a Yanmar that is smooth but without sound enclosure  sounds like it belongs in a tractor. I expect the Yanmar to run  forever with no worries. I have no proof that the VW would not be as  trustworthy but I have a gut feeling that the Yanmar is setup I will  need in the Antarctic? Gerald|
9224|9220|2005-10-20 02:14:06|jericoera|Re: Barrie Farrell|Unrelated-just wanted to let you know I am still thinking about the  mast. Will get back to you shortly.  Carl M. shakeena@...   --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Gary" <greenguy2ca@y...> wrote: > > For those on the BC coast who know Barrie I am looking to return a  > book he lent me.  Email or phone would be helpful.  I think he may  be  > living aboard somewhere in the Pender Island vicinity. >  > Thanks... Gary > |
9225|9225|2005-10-20 02:16:57|jericoera|Sailing question|While I recognize this as a boatbuilding forum, I am now researching  sailing qualities of the Swain boats. In particular, I am curious  about roll and pitching movements as well as steering on the bilge  keelers.  The boats are more than obviously strong enough. Sailing ability for  the bilge keelrs and personal experiences would be nice to talk about. Every book I have read has had the same theme--#1 factor for a safe  passage in relation to the vessel is a vessel that steers easily and  is not tiresome on the crew, generally balanced or semi balanced  rudders.  CArl m.|
9226|9226|2005-10-20 02:26:19|John Langelo|Lead For Keels|I did the lead in my keel a little differently from some of the  others on this site. I wedged stove elements under the keel and  hooked them up to a 50 amp, 2 pole breaker, and when I was ready to  start melting lead I turned it on. I was afraid of distorting the  keel if the metals were of different temperatures.I left the  elements on for two days during the melting and pouring. In my  opinion, for what it's worth, I was trying to keep the whole mess as  close to the melting point as possable. It worked well with no  distortions. The lead had lots of time to flow into all the corners  before solidifying. I was using wheel weights for my ballast. For  every one hundred pounds of wheel weights, you will have thirteen  pounds of waste. I found that remelting the lead from wheel weights  caused the lead and some other metal to seperate, so I made sure I  had enough to complete the job without remelting the lead left in  the pot. My boat has a fin keel and I melted the lead in the boat  using a twenty-five pound propane tank with the top cut off, set up  on a stand, with a spout and two pieces of pipe opposite of each  other, for pivot points, welded to the tank. Opposite to the spout,  half way up the tank, is another pipe welded on to accommodate  another pipe inside for a tipping handle to pour the liquid metal  out. I could comfortably melt three hunded pounds. My cauldron from  hell actually turned out to be well balanced when fully loaded. I  would fill the cauldron full of wheel weights and go off to do other  tasks while the lead was melting.  I used a large furnice fan,  mounted on the most forward hatch, to pull the air out. The fresh  incoming air would first go past me at the main hatch, then the  melting pot and then out. On top of the furnice fan I added about  two metres of ventilation pipe as a chimney to get the smoke and ash  up high and away. A good respirator was a must. It was very hot and  very dirty work. I used bread pans for molds to make up some extra  ingots for balancing the boat for when the boat finally reaches the  water!  There wasn't as much shrinkage with the lead as I had once  feared.|
9227|9198|2005-10-20 05:08:39|Denis Buggy|Re: Marinizing an engine|dear gearld your vw is indirect ct injection and has a swirl chamber in the head to atomise diesel  properly and this works a treat when engine is hot and fuel is warm however these engines require glowplug heating before starting  and  combined with low fuel temp  may be impossible to start in the artic .  you will need a fuel heater where you are going usually mounted in the fuel filter housing and you should consider using the exaust to heat a fuel circut  within the tank as artic diesel may be cloud point  -18  only and do not thin it out with parrifin as some experts will advise  as we got a faulty fuel delivery last may and it cost 22,000.00 euros to sort the fuel systems on 8 vehicles . i would do the injectors before departure as they will fire when they atomise properly and you can fit a air manifold heater from a tractor  easily before you go  an emergency petrol generator to bring up the voltage in the batteries would be advisable and your stove  must  be able to keep your batteries and fuel   above - 10. good luck denis      ----- Original Message -----    From: Gerald Niffenegger    To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com    Sent: Thursday, October 20, 2005 6:38 AM   Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Marinizing an engine     GS   A couple years ago I installed a new 1.9 VW in a 32 foot wooden    sailboat. I ran the original dry exhaust manifold. The engine was    cooled using fresh water and a sea water heat exchanger. The output    side of the sea water heat exchanger ran into the two inch rubber    exhaust tube and out the transom above water line with no muffler in    the system.   I installed the motor knowing I would someday sell the boat without    the motor. The small amount of noise at the transom sounded great and    I attributed the great sound to the very large sea water pump. A    large truck air filter killed the noise inside the boat. I used the    electric fan from a car radiator as a bilge fan.    The motor is now setting on my shop floor and I am getting it ready    for a new 36 foot glass racing sailboat. I have not yet worked out a    good combination for the thermostat and the engine always ran cooler    than I wanted it to, at about 160 degrees. That may account for the    fact that even after running the engine on a warm day I need to cycle    the glow plugs to get it to start. I ran a v belt setup for my sea    water pump and was not happy with it. I am changing that to direct    drive off the front of the crankshaft.   My steel boat has a Yanmar that is smooth but without sound enclosure    sounds like it belongs in a tractor. I expect the Yanmar to run    forever with no worries. I have no proof that the VW would not be as    trustworthy but I have a gut feeling that the Yanmar is setup I will    need in the Antarctic?   Gerald        To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com   To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com     ------------------------------------------------------------------------------   YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS       a..  Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web.            b..  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:      origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com            c..  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
9228|9198|2005-10-20 07:12:25|T & D CAIN|Re: Marinizing an engine|Gerald, you have the raw water pump for that front of crankshaft drive? I imported the Jabsco / Cleghorn Waring designed for the VW from the UK manufacturer --- a very neat unit. Terry  -----Original Message----- From:	origamiboats@yahoogroups.com [mailto:origamiboats@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Gerald Niffenegger Sent:	Thursday, 20 October 2005 15:08 To:	origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Subject:	[origamiboats] Re: Marinizing an engine|
9229|9198|2005-10-20 08:37:46|Courtney Thomas|Re: Marinizing an engine|Thank you for the generous offer.   Please send all the particulars and necessary facts to accomplish this and  exactly what the suitable procedure would be.  Cordially,  Courtney    On Wednesday 19 October 2005 22:23, Abraham George wrote: > Hi, > > The only catch is that they don't export the engines > either you or someone has to come here and get the > engine. If you wish I can do the liasoning with the > company. > > BTW this engine in made in India.... > > --- khooper_fboats <bighouse@...> wrote: > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Courtney Thomas > > <ccthomas@j...> > > > > wrote: > > > How can I get in touch with the people in your > > > > country that sell > > this 10hp > > > > > rope start engine, please ? > > > > This can't be the engine he means but it is a > > pull-start 10-horse > > aircooled diesel: > > > > http://launtop.com/ebusiness/en/index.asp > > > > I understand this exact engine is re-branded and > > sold by Yanmar as > > their aircooled diesel line. Ridiculously cheap when > > branded as > > Launtop. This is probably what I'm going to use in > > the 40-footer > > (yes!) and I will carry a turnkey spare as well. > > Maybe a third one for > > dinghy outboard. > > > > --Hoop > > __________________________________ > Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 > http://mail.yahoo.com > > > > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links > > > |
9230|9198|2005-10-20 11:28:39|MIKE WHEELER|Re: Marinizing an engine|Interesting info! What kind of horsepower do you get from the VW engine? What kind of transmission do you have it coupled to? Have been considering this sort of set up for a small displacement hull power boat. Would live to see pics of what you have done!  Thanks! Mike    ----- Original Message -----    From: gschnell<mailto:gschnell@...>    To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com<mailto:origamiboats@yahoogroups.com>    Sent: Wednesday, October 19, 2005 8:24 PM   Subject: Re: [origamiboats] Marinizing an engine     I'm no expert on Marinizing an engine, but here's what I have done.   Comments Welcome!   I'm using a little VW 1.8L diesel from an '86 Jetta. I am using the skeg   as my "radiator" and plumbing the engine pretty much as it would be in   an automtive application, complete with thermostat control. The cooling   system holds 68 liters of antifreeze/water mix and also serves as   waterheater (house water system) via a heatexchanger plumbed as though   it were the automotive heater. The cooling water returning from the skeg   cools two refrigeration coils (dual refrigeration - engine drive &   12VDC) and the engine oil. Flow to/from the skeg is controlled by the   engine thermostat and a temperature control valve on the cooler line   (bypass).   I have run an insulated SS dry exhaust, complete with vacuum-break and   muffler, out thru the transom to exit below the waterline. I have NOT   cooled my manifolds, but instead, I am allowing the engine to draw   intake air from the engine bay, thereby "vacuuming" the bay as it runs.   I am providing filtered fresh air from an  intake port inside the   combings, to replenish the engine bay air. I expect a slight decline in   HP due to the warm air intake, but I have sufficient HP, so I don't   care.    Hope this gives you some ideas. I'd be interested in feedback. This   system is relatively untested.   Gord Schnell   Note: Pathfinder Yachts of California used these engines quite   successfully for more than a decade. I was aboard on in Squamish. Quiet   and smooth. It had been marinized. Pathfinder is now located in Quebec   and marinizing components are available thru them and from various   European companies...expensive!!!   Hence my decision to go the path I have outlined.   GS    kingsknight4life wrote:    >  What is involved in marinizing an engine? I found an engine, I think,   >   > but it needs to be marinized. Iwant ti to be skeg cooled and with a   > dry exhaust. I know it needs a water cooled manifold, can these easily   >   > be made or purchased? Is that all I need?   > Thanks Rowland   > PS the engine is a kubota 43 HP, for my Swain 36 of course   >   >   >   > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com   > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:   > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com   >   >   >   > SPONSORED LINKS   >       British columbia canada       Vancouver island      Yacht        Victoria bc    > -----------------------------------------------------------------------   > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS   >   >    +  Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web.   >   >    +  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:   >       origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com   >   >    +  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of   >      Service.   >   > -----------------------------------------------------------------------   >     [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]      To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com   To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com     ------------------------------------------------------------------------------   YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS       a..  Visit your group "origamiboats<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats>" on the web.            b..  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:      origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com<mailto:origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>            c..  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
9231|9231|2005-10-20 11:40:42|mickeyolaf|Lead in Keels|In our Swain 36 the lead was cast into 4 ingots the shape of the  inside of the keel. The inside of the keel cavity was initially coated  with epoxy and allowed to cure. Then epoxy was poured in just to cover  the bottom. When the ingots were lowered in place the epoxy wicked up  the sides, filled all voids and just covered the lead. A 3/8" thick  cap was welded over. Two holes were drilled into the cap, more epoxy  poured in until the cavity was full to the drilled holes. The result  was solid void free epoxy coated lead in the keel. No contact between  the lead and hull, no voids for water, not even air. The lead has to  fit tight and the cap right down within a hair of the top of the lead  so you won't use too much epoxy, because it is expensive. The cap made a perfect solid shelf for the batteries( non gassing  AGM's) to sit on in their cases. All of the weight down low where it  should be. The cap will hold the lead in place in a rollover. The  additional space also allows two side tanks for water. The floor(sole)  goes over top and you have a great neat instalation.|
9232|9198|2005-10-20 11:58:13|Henri Naths|Re: Marinizing an engine|Hi Courtney, I googled Kubota and found http://www.engine.kubota.ne.jp/english/catalog/index.html look under horizontal ac/oc series 6.2hp at 1800 rpm. I will get more info. H.  ----- Original Message -----  From: "Courtney Thomas" <ccthomas@...> To: <origamiboats@yahoogroups.com> Sent: 20 October, 2005 9:03 AM Subject: Re: [origamiboats] Re: Marinizing an engine   > Thank you for the generous offer. > > Please send all the particulars and necessary facts to accomplish this and > exactly what the suitable procedure would be. > > Cordially, > > Courtney > > > On Wednesday 19 October 2005 22:23, Abraham George wrote: >> Hi, >> >> The only catch is that they don't export the engines >> either you or someone has to come here and get the >> engine. If you wish I can do the liasoning with the >> company. >> >> BTW this engine in made in India.... >> >> --- khooper_fboats <bighouse@...> wrote: >> > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Courtney Thomas >> > <ccthomas@j...> >> > >> > wrote: >> > > How can I get in touch with the people in your >> > >> > country that sell >> > this 10hp >> > >> > > rope start engine, please ? >> > >> > This can't be the engine he means but it is a >> > pull-start 10-horse >> > aircooled diesel: >> > >> > http://launtop.com/ebusiness/en/index.asp >> > >> > I understand this exact engine is re-branded and >> > sold by Yanmar as >> > their aircooled diesel line. Ridiculously cheap when >> > branded as >> > Launtop. This is probably what I'm going to use in >> > the 40-footer >> > (yes!) and I will carry a turnkey spare as well. >> > Maybe a third one for >> > dinghy outboard. >> > >> > --Hoop >> >> __________________________________ >> Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 >> http://mail.yahoo.com >> >> >> >> To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com >> To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: >> origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links >> >> >> > > > > > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:  > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > |
9233|9231|2005-10-20 15:08:48|jericoera|Re: Lead in Keels|Sounds well thought out. How did you cast the lead though to fit so  perfectly-build an extra keel as a mould or cast it in the keel and  then remove it so you could pour in the epoxy?  Just curious as to how to precast the lead so this method will work  the same for me.  Carl M.   --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "mickeyolaf" <mickeyolaf@y...>  wrote:  > > In our Swain 36 the lead was cast into 4 ingots the shape of the  > inside of the keel. The inside of the keel cavity was initially   coated   > with epoxy and allowed to cure. Then epoxy was poured in just to   cover   > the bottom. When the ingots were lowered in place the epoxy wicked   up   > the sides, filled all voids and just covered the lead. A 3/8"   thick   > cap was welded over. Two holes were drilled into the cap, more   epoxy   > poured in until the cavity was full to the drilled holes. The   result   > was solid void free epoxy coated lead in the keel. No contact   between   > the lead and hull, no voids for water, not even air. The lead has   to   > fit tight and the cap right down within a hair of the top of the   lead   > so you won't use too much epoxy, because it is expensive. > The cap made a perfect solid shelf for the batteries( non gassing  > AGM's) to sit on in their cases. All of the weight down low where   it   > should be. The cap will hold the lead in place in a rollover. The  > additional space also allows two side tanks for water. The floor  (sole)   > goes over top and you have a great neat instalation. > |
9234|9231|2005-10-20 17:38:09|mickeyolaf|Re: Lead in Keels|--- Confidence Boatbuilding built the hull and deck. They made a steel  mold with four compartments the exact shape of the keel. Poured lead  into them with lifting eyes cast in. When the lead cools it shrinks  and is easy to lift out with a block and tackle. The rest of the  procedure I described earlier. The shrinkage was taken up by the  epoxy. The tighter the fit the less epoxy needed. It worked really  well and there is never any possibility of water getting in. In a  grounding the keel is one solid mass that even if holed will not  leak because of the cap. The cheapest epoxy can be used. The heat  generated in the cure is absorbed by the lead. Confidence has a web site and you could call them to ask more  specific details.                  In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "jericoera" <jericoera@y...> wrote:  > > Sounds well thought out. How did you cast the lead though to fit   so   > perfectly-build an extra keel as a mould or cast it in the keel   and   > then remove it so you could pour in the epoxy? >  > Just curious as to how to precast the lead so this method will   work   > the same for me. >  > Carl M. >  >  > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "mickeyolaf"   <mickeyolaf@y...>   > wrote: > > > > In our Swain 36 the lead was cast into 4 ingots the shape of the  > > inside of the keel. The inside of the keel cavity was initially  > coated  > > with epoxy and allowed to cure. Then epoxy was poured in just to  > cover  > > the bottom. When the ingots were lowered in place the epoxy   wicked   > up  > > the sides, filled all voids and just covered the lead. A 3/8"  > thick  > > cap was welded over. Two holes were drilled into the cap, more  > epoxy  > > poured in until the cavity was full to the drilled holes. The  > result  > > was solid void free epoxy coated lead in the keel. No contact  > between  > > the lead and hull, no voids for water, not even air. The lead   has   > to  > > fit tight and the cap right down within a hair of the top of the  > lead  > > so you won't use too much epoxy, because it is expensive. > > The cap made a perfect solid shelf for the batteries( non   gassing   > > AGM's) to sit on in their cases. All of the weight down low   where   > it  > > should be. The cap will hold the lead in place in a rollover.   The   > > additional space also allows two side tanks for water. The floor > (sole)  > > goes over top and you have a great neat instalation. > > > |
9235|9231|2005-10-20 17:55:55|Alex Christie|Re: Lead in Keels|That's a neat solution for my twin keeler, because each keel is  symmetrical therefore the lead can be cast for both out of one mould.   Maybe you could make as many compartments as you like if lifting larger  weights was a problem, as long as you don't mind using a little more  epoxy to fill the voids.  The lead only goes about 2/3 the way up  either keel of a twin keeler, so the mould for this casting does not  have to be as high as the keels themselves, and of course you would not  need thick steel for the mould since it will never function as a keel  That said, what about using one of the keels as a mould, with the  baffles welded in permanently?  Then suck out your bits, manhandle your  keel into place, then replace your precast lead??  Ted Stone poured lead first in the keels like this, but somehow got the  keel moved over to the boat with it full of lead, which sounds like an  amazing feat  (I should have gone to England to film this!).  Being  able to take out the lead chunks then replace might be a good solution  if a person is working alone or without other means of moving the keel.  Alex   On 20-Oct-05, at 2:36 PM, mickeyolaf wrote:  > --- >  Confidence Boatbuilding built the hull and deck. They made a steel >  mold with four compartments the exact shape of the keel. Poured lead >  into them with lifting eyes cast in. When the lead cools it shrinks >  and is easy to lift out with a block and tackle. The rest of the >  procedure I described earlier. The shrinkage was taken up by the >  epoxy. The tighter the fit the less epoxy needed. It worked really >  well and there is never any possibility of water getting in. In a >  grounding the keel is one solid mass that even if holed will not >  leak because of the cap. The cheapest epoxy can be used. The heat >  generated in the cure is absorbed by the lead. >  Confidence has a web site and you could call them to ask more >  specific details. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >  In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "jericoera" <jericoera@y...> wrote: >  > >  > Sounds well thought out. How did you cast the lead though to fit >  so >  > perfectly-build an extra keel as a mould or cast it in the keel >  and >  > then remove it so you could pour in the epoxy? >  > >  > Just curious as to how to precast the lead so this method will >  work >  > the same for me. >  > >  > Carl M. >  > >  > >  > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "mickeyolaf" >  <mickeyolaf@y...> >  > wrote: >  > > >  > > In our Swain 36 the lead was cast into 4 ingots the shape of the >  > > inside of the keel. The inside of the keel cavity was initially >  > coated >  > > with epoxy and allowed to cure. Then epoxy was poured in just to >  > cover >  > > the bottom. When the ingots were lowered in place the epoxy >  wicked >  > up >  > > the sides, filled all voids and just covered the lead. A 3/8" >  > thick >  > > cap was welded over. Two holes were drilled into the cap, more >  > epoxy >  > > poured in until the cavity was full to the drilled holes. The >  > result >  > > was solid void free epoxy coated lead in the keel. No contact >  > between >  > > the lead and hull, no voids for water, not even air. The lead >  has >  > to >  > > fit tight and the cap right down within a hair of the top of the >  > lead >  > > so you won't use too much epoxy, because it is expensive. >  > > The cap made a perfect solid shelf for the batteries( non >  gassing >  > > AGM's) to sit on in their cases. All of the weight down low >  where >  > it >  > > should be. The cap will hold the lead in place in a rollover. >  The >  > > additional space also allows two side tanks for water. The floor >  > (sole) >  > > goes over top and you have a great neat instalation. >  > > >  > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com >  To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:  > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > SPONSORED LINKS > British columbia canada > Vancouver island > Yacht > Victoria bc > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > 	▪ 	 Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web. >   > 	▪ 	 To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >  origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com >   > 	▪ 	 Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of  > Service. > >   [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
9236|9198|2005-10-20 21:08:48|Gerald Niffenegger|Re: Marinizing an engine|Dennis Thanks for the food for thought. I will be sailing to the portion of  Antarctica which lies south of Cape Horn. The location is more than  3,000 kilometers north of the South pole and north of the arctic  circle. I am sure hoping not to see any thing close to minus 18  degrees.  The boat is equipped with a 8,000 watt diesel generator which I am  hoping will take care of heating and battery requirements. Terry I have already purchased the coupler for the raw water pump. VW Marine  is now selling the 1.9 as a marine unit, ready to bolt in. Gerald|
9237|9231|2005-10-20 21:17:52|Gerald Niffenegger|Re: Lead in Keels|Yesterday I purchased 76 kilos of lead and mixed in with the lead was a  five kilo ingot of nickel. According to world prices it is worth more  than 10 times the price of lead. So ........... now that I have this  nice ingot of nickel ............ what the heck can I use it for, short  of making coins? Gerald|
9238|9198|2005-10-20 21:26:19|khooper_fboats|Re: Marinizing an engine|>VW Marine  > is now selling the 1.9 as a marine unit, ready to bolt in. > Gerald   Danged if it ain't so:  http://www.volkswagen-media-services.com/medias_publish/ms/content/en/pressemitteilungen/2002/10/05/volkswagen_marine.standard.gid-oeffentlichkeit.html  Looks like the flagship is a 40-horse with maximum torque at 2000 rpm.  This would be the TDI diesel they put in the Beetles and Jettas but without the turbo.  The skeptic in me (and longtime Volkswagen-phile) notes that when trumpeting the new features of this "extensively reconstructed version" of the diesel, VW Media Services notes first and foremost that this new marine engine is a marine engine because...it has saltwater resistant paint on it.|
9239|9231|2005-10-20 22:33:11|Lipsey|Re: Lead in Keels|Sell it!!    ----- Original Message -----    From: Gerald Niffenegger    To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com    Sent: Thursday, October 20, 2005 8:17 PM   Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Lead in Keels     Yesterday I purchased 76 kilos of lead and mixed in with the lead was a    five kilo ingot of nickel. According to world prices it is worth more    than 10 times the price of lead. So ........... now that I have this    nice ingot of nickel ............ what the heck can I use it for, short    of making coins?   Gerald        To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com   To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com       SPONSORED LINKS British columbia canada  Vancouver island  Yacht           Victoria bc     ------------------------------------------------------------------------------   YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS       a..  Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web.            b..  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:      origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com            c..  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
9240|9198|2005-10-20 23:29:38|gschnell|Re: Marinizing an engine|Mike The naturally aspirated 1.8L is rated at 50HP. Adding the turbo, boosts it to 68HP. I mated a 2.91:1 BorgWarner VelvetDrive to it. The prop is a 3-blade 21" MaxProp (reconditioned). The propshaft is 1.5" x 66" in length. I built "thrust bearing" and "oil-filled" lip seal system at the inner end of the sterntube and built a short driveshaft from VW van rear axles and CV joints. That allow the engine and transmission to "float" on rubber mounts (keep the hull vibration down). I'll see if I can post a few pics on Origami2 for you. Gord   MIKE WHEELER wrote:   >  Interesting info! > What kind of horsepower do you get from the VW engine? What kind of > transmission do you have it coupled to? Have been considering this > sort of set up for a small displacement hull power boat. Would live to > see pics of what you have done! > > Thanks! > Mike >   ----- Original Message ----- >   From: gschnell<mailto:gschnell@...> >   To: > origamiboats@yahoogroups.com<mailto:origamiboats@yahoogroups.com> >   Sent: Wednesday, October 19, 2005 8:24 PM >   Subject: Re: [origamiboats] Marinizing an engine > > >   I'm no expert on Marinizing an engine, but here's what I have done. >   Comments Welcome! >   I'm using a little VW 1.8L diesel from an '86 Jetta. I am using the > skeg >   as my "radiator" and plumbing the engine pretty much as it would be > in >   an automtive application, complete with thermostat control. The > cooling >   system holds 68 liters of antifreeze/water mix and also serves as >   waterheater (house water system) via a heatexchanger plumbed as > though >   it were the automotive heater. The cooling water returning from the > skeg >   cools two refrigeration coils (dual refrigeration - engine drive & >   12VDC) and the engine oil. Flow to/from the skeg is controlled by > the >   engine thermostat and a temperature control valve on the cooler line > >   (bypass). >   I have run an insulated SS dry exhaust, complete with vacuum-break > and >   muffler, out thru the transom to exit below the waterline. I have > NOT >   cooled my manifolds, but instead, I am allowing the engine to draw >   intake air from the engine bay, thereby "vacuuming" the bay as it > runs. >   I am providing filtered fresh air from an  intake port inside the >   combings, to replenish the engine bay air. I expect a slight decline > in >   HP due to the warm air intake, but I have sufficient HP, so I don't >   care. > >   Hope this gives you some ideas. I'd be interested in feedback. This >   system is relatively untested. >   Gord Schnell >   Note: Pathfinder Yachts of California used these engines quite >   successfully for more than a decade. I was aboard on in Squamish. > Quiet >   and smooth. It had been marinized. Pathfinder is now located in > Quebec >   and marinizing components are available thru them and from various >   European companies...expensive!!! >   Hence my decision to go the path I have outlined. >   GS > >   kingsknight4life wrote: > >   >  What is involved in marinizing an engine? I found an engine, I > think, >   > >   > but it needs to be marinized. Iwant ti to be skeg cooled and with > a >   > dry exhaust. I know it needs a water cooled manifold, can these > easily >   > >   > be made or purchased? Is that all I need? >   > Thanks Rowland >   > PS the engine is a kubota 43 HP, for my Swain 36 of course >   > >   > >   > >   > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com >   > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: >   > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com >   > >   > >   > >   > SPONSORED LINKS >   > >       British columbia canada       Vancouver island      Yacht > >       Victoria bc > >   > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > >   > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS >   > >   >    +  Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web. >   > >   >    +  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >   >       origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com >   > >   >    +  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of >   >      Service. >   > >   > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > >   > > > >   [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > >   To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com >   To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > - > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > >   YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > >     a..  Visit your group > "origamiboats<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats>" on the web. > >     b..  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com<mailto:origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe> > >     c..  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > Service<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>. > > > - > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > >    +  Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web. > >    +  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >       origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > >    +  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of >      Service. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- >    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]|
9241|9241|2005-10-21 00:14:10|SHANE ROTHWELL|Barry Farrel|Has Farrel Marine (or something like that) believe the address is in NV. I think he does quite a bit of glass work at Mosquito Creek marina. They may be able to give you his #   	  	 		 __________________________________________________________  Find your next car at http://autos.yahoo.ca|
9242|9242|2005-10-21 00:19:41|SHANE ROTHWELL|Engine shaft allignment|Why bother going to the trouble. use drive shaft out of a 5 tonn with both universals on it, chop it down to size & weld the sucker up, put a plumbers block on the shaft aft of the 2 universals to take the end load and you can then mount the donk anywhere you please. cheap, easy & very servicable but be sure to get a dirive shaft on which the universals have greese nipples.  Lots easier than having to be within .000000001 mm & you can then go with soft mounts (oversized of course) & the whole mess runs quieter as well.  Cheers, Rock   	  	 		 __________________________________________________________  Find your next car at http://autos.yahoo.ca|
9243|9231|2005-10-21 01:17:50|jericoera|Re: Lead in Keels|Thanks, I have spoke to len Blower a few times. He does nice work  from what I can see.  The upside issue is also well addressed. i wouldn't have considered  the lead slipping out while inverted and crushing me--glad someone  else thought about that!  Cheers  Carl m.  --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "mickeyolaf" <mickeyolaf@y...>  wrote:  > > --- > Confidence Boatbuilding built the hull and deck. They made a steel  > mold with four compartments the exact shape of the keel. Poured   lead   > into them with lifting eyes cast in. When the lead cools it   shrinks   > and is easy to lift out with a block and tackle. The rest of the  > procedure I described earlier. The shrinkage was taken up by the  > epoxy. The tighter the fit the less epoxy needed. It worked really  > well and there is never any possibility of water getting in. In a  > grounding the keel is one solid mass that even if holed will not  > leak because of the cap. The cheapest epoxy can be used. The heat  > generated in the cure is absorbed by the lead. > Confidence has a web site and you could call them to ask more  > specific details. >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "jericoera" <jericoera@y...>   wrote:  > > > > Sounds well thought out. How did you cast the lead though to fit  > so  > > perfectly-build an extra keel as a mould or cast it in the keel  > and  > > then remove it so you could pour in the epoxy? > >  > > Just curious as to how to precast the lead so this method will  > work  > > the same for me. > >  > > Carl M. > >  > >  > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "mickeyolaf"  > <mickeyolaf@y...>  > > wrote: > > > > > > In our Swain 36 the lead was cast into 4 ingots the shape of   the   > > > inside of the keel. The inside of the keel cavity was   initially   > > coated  > > > with epoxy and allowed to cure. Then epoxy was poured in just   to   > > cover  > > > the bottom. When the ingots were lowered in place the epoxy  > wicked  > > up  > > > the sides, filled all voids and just covered the lead. A 3/8"  > > thick  > > > cap was welded over. Two holes were drilled into the cap, more  > > epoxy  > > > poured in until the cavity was full to the drilled holes. The  > > result  > > > was solid void free epoxy coated lead in the keel. No contact  > > between  > > > the lead and hull, no voids for water, not even air. The lead  > has  > > to  > > > fit tight and the cap right down within a hair of the top of   the   > > lead  > > > so you won't use too much epoxy, because it is expensive. > > > The cap made a perfect solid shelf for the batteries( non  > gassing  > > > AGM's) to sit on in their cases. All of the weight down low  > where  > > it  > > > should be. The cap will hold the lead in place in a rollover.  > The  > > > additional space also allows two side tanks for water. The   floor  > > (sole)  > > > goes over top and you have a great neat instalation. > > > > > > |
9244|9244|2005-10-21 01:27:59|jericoera|Where to buy lead?|In case I decide not to scrounge lead and buy it new, what is the  price per pound and where do you get it?  I am scrounging enough other stuff that i figure I may treat myself  unless they want a king's ransom for the leasd like evrything else  these days.  Carl m|
9245|9242|2005-10-21 01:28:33|jericoera|Re: Engine shaft allignment|Is that a theory or is it tested? Sounds reasonable enough in  concept.  Carl M--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, SHANE ROTHWELL  <rockrothwell@y...> wrote:  > > Why bother going to the trouble. use drive shaft out > of a 5 tonn with both universals on it, chop it down > to size & weld the sucker up, put a plumbers block on > the shaft aft of the 2 universals to take the end load > and you can then mount the donk anywhere you please. > cheap, easy & very servicable but be sure to get a > dirive shaft on which the universals have greese > nipples.  > Lots easier than having to be within .000000001 mm & > you can then go with soft mounts (oversized of course) > & the whole mess runs quieter as well. >  > Cheers, > Rock >  >  > 	 >  > 	 > 		 > __________________________________________________________  > Find your next car at http://autos.yahoo.ca > |
9246|9244|2005-10-21 02:15:51|Paul Cotter|Re: Where to buy lead?|IÂ’ve found metal recyclers and scrap yards to have lead, but they may not be the best place to buy it. By accident I found a fellow with a contract to clean up lead at a nearby shooting range. He sells it to someone else for making commercial quantities of fishing weights, etc. He said I could buy as much as I wanted from him.   Last time I checked the recyclers they were charging $0.50/pound (kinda high, in my book). The shooting range scrounger agreed to sell at $0.25. IÂ’ve never really seen lead at auctions, but IÂ’ve heard of people finding it in quantity at some industrial/military auction. A derelict boat in a boatyard can sometimes be purchased for scrap.    -----Original Message----- From: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com [mailto:origamiboats@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of jericoera Sent: 10/20/2005 9:27 PM To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Subject: [origamiboats] Where to buy lead?   In case I decide not to scrounge lead and buy it new, what is the  price per pound and where do you get it?  I am scrounging enough other stuff that i figure I may treat myself  unless they want a king's ransom for the leasd like evrything else  these days.  Carl m      To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com       _____    YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS    *          Visit your group "origamiboats <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats> " on the web.    *          To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:  origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <mailto:origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>     *          Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>  Terms of Service.      _____      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]|
9247|9244|2005-10-21 03:51:29|Jon & Wanda(Tink)|Re: Where to buy lead?|You may find some plumbing wholesalers still cary it for leadding cast  iron pipe. Buckshot can be found on sale at less then wholesale too.  Jon|
9248|9244|2005-10-21 04:16:38|kingsknight4life|Re: Where to buy lead?|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Jon & Wanda(Tink)"  <windyjon@m...> wrote:  > > You may find some plumbing wholesalers still cary it for leadding   cast   > iron pipe. Buckshot can be found on sale at less then wholesale too. >  > Jon >Try to buy a derelict boat and salvage the keel and whatever else. If   you have the time and space tirweights are usually free. At least  initially. I thinkk a 5 gallon pail yields around 100 lbs of weight,  so you net pprox. 75 lbs. of lead. Happy hunting Rowland|
9249|9244|2005-10-21 04:24:55|Alex Christie|Re: Where to buy lead?|Roofers also take off those lead vent things when they are re-doing a  roof around here. I have seen many at the scrap metal yard.  You gotta  be quick and snap them up before they get shipped out, though!  Alex|
9250|9244|2005-10-21 06:33:48|edward_stoneuk|Re: Where to buy lead?|Carl m  Lead prices go up and down like any commodity.  World market prices  are given in some newspapers and on some web sites.  I would expect  scrap dealers to be aware of the world market price.  There is  obviously a big gap between their buying and selling price as that  is how they make their living.  Smaller scrap dealers often sell to  bigger dealers who will make up a load to sell to a major lead  product producer at an increased price nearer to the current world  market price.  In areas far from a major user or dealer then it may  not be economic to ship and sell small parcels and the lead price  may reflect local demand.  In the UK for instance, where there is a  well developed market, wheel balance weights are usually bought by  dealers who often have a contract with the tyre company.  Given the  gap between a dealer's buying and selling price then if you can find  someone who often sells to a scrap dealer then buying from them at a  price slightly higher than the dealers buying price but at a lot  less than their selling price is a good thing.  Sources of lead are,  as has been said, old keels and tyre weights, but also lead roof  flashings, and lead acid batteries and in older urban areas lead  piping.  Getting the lead from batteries and disposing of the acid  and the plastic case is a concern.  So a source of lead may be scrap  dealers, tire shops, battery shops, plumbers, and roofers.  I bought  lead for my keels over a period of a couple of years mostly from a  local dealer but also privately.  The price varied.  I would check  the world market price before I bought to give me some idea as to  whether the price had risen or not.  Asking scrap dealers their  buying and selling price will also help although if you ask them  both prices they may not tell you, so get someone else to phone and  ask the other price a day or too later.  Regards, Ted|
9251|9251|2005-10-21 12:01:23|prairiemaidca|Shaft alignment|Hi All:  I did look at the possibility of using a system with universal  joints but it placed the engine and gear just alittle to far forward in  the boat for my particular set up.  I built my engine mounts so that  there is adjustment in all directions.  My problem is moving the whole  thing in very small increments. I seem to have solved that by making a  platform for some very small screw jacks(4coupler nuts and 8 3/8bolts  the bottom one being tacked to a small steel plate) Getting it with  in .005 was easy, the rest was just a matter of a tap here and there to  bring it down to virtually nothing.  As for the lead ballast problem I  lucked out and scored almost 3000lbs. from an Edmonton hospital for  free.  Mostly blocks like bricks and interlocking rings about 12in. in  dia. One piece was so big it had to be quartered just to lift it.   Martin Forster (Prairie Maid)|
9252|9244|2005-10-21 13:12:33|Paul Cotter|Re: Where to buy lead?|I called a couple tire shops sometime back. Some claimed they were legally required to recycle their lead through an authorized lead dealer due to toxicity issues. Not sure if that is really true. I had the impression they just didnÂ’t want my bucket sitting in their garage. I know in some locales certified lead scrapers have to have a certificate which verifies they have been trained in appropriate lead disposal techniques. I agree with everyone who has chimed in on this one; there is a lot of lead out there and the price does fluctuate quite a bit. IÂ’m still looking for that 1500# chunk of lead on a pallet at auction!   Paul   -----Original Message----- From: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com [mailto:origamiboats@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of edward_stoneuk Sent: 10/21/2005 2:34 AM To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Where to buy lead?   Carl m  Lead prices go up and down like any commodity.  World market prices  are given in some newspapers and on some web sites.  I would expect  scrap dealers to be aware of the world market price.  There is  obviously a big gap between their buying and selling price as that  is how they make their living.  Smaller scrap dealers often sell to  bigger dealers who will make up a load to sell to a major lead  product producer at an increased price nearer to the current world  market price.  In areas far from a major user or dealer then it may  not be economic to ship and sell small parcels and the lead price  may reflect local demand.  In the UK for instance, where there is a  well developed market, wheel balance weights are usually bought by  dealers who often have a contract with the tyre company.  Given the  gap between a dealer's buying and selling price then if you can find  someone who often sells to a scrap dealer then buying from them at a  price slightly higher than the dealers buying price but at a lot  less than their selling price is a good thing.  Sources of lead are,  as has been said, old keels and tyre weights, but also lead roof  flashings, and lead acid batteries and in older urban areas lead  piping.  Getting the lead from batteries and disposing of the acid  and the plastic case is a concern.  So a source of lead may be scrap  dealers, tire shops, battery shops, plumbers, and roofers.  I bought  lead for my keels over a period of a couple of years mostly from a  local dealer but also privately.  The price varied.  I would check  the world market price before I bought to give me some idea as to  whether the price had risen or not.  Asking scrap dealers their  buying and selling price will also help although if you ask them  both prices they may not tell you, so get someone else to phone and  ask the other price a day or too later.  Regards, Ted      To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com     SPONSORED LINKS   British <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=British+columbia+canada&w1=British+ columbia+canada&w2=Vancouver+island&w3=Yacht&w4=Victoria+bc&c=4&s=79&.si g=9R67WCgMr5OvBLa-xHHyGA>  columbia canada  Vancouver <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Vancouver+island&w1=British+columbi a+canada&w2=Vancouver+island&w3=Yacht&w4=Victoria+bc&c=4&s=79&.sig=yL5WO tgPnpYAmd1P5N16cw>  island  Yacht <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Yacht&w1=British+columbia+canada&w2 =Vancouver+island&w3=Yacht&w4=Victoria+bc&c=4&s=79&.sig=VvQDFUjkrcc6EJ4x XP0vjg>    Victoria <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Victoria+bc&w1=British+columbia+can ada&w2=Vancouver+island&w3=Yacht&w4=Victoria+bc&c=4&s=79&.sig=QTHu1FWCcM WsTCz7vGyGdg>  bc          _____    YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS    *          Visit your group "origamiboats <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats> " on the web.    *          To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:  origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <mailto:origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>     *          Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>  Terms of Service.      _____      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]|
9253|9231|2005-10-21 15:37:30|edward_stoneuk|Re: Lead in Keels|Alex, I have put another photo in Ted & Fiona's boat bits on Origamiboats2.   It shows Fiona using a chain hoist to pull the lead filled keel into  position.  It was remarkably easy, she tells me.  With its lead  filled "shoe" the keels nearly stood upright on their own.  We held it  up with a wall made of old floor sections. Regards, Ted|
9254|9198|2005-10-21 19:39:19|gschnell|Re: Marinizing an engine|Mike A couple of things. I stated the engine is a 1.8L VW......wrong, it's a 1.6L diesel VW. Same block...different engine. I posted a couple of "engine bay" pics per your request. Enjoy! Gord   MIKE WHEELER wrote:   >  Interesting info! > What kind of horsepower do you get from the VW engine? What kind of > transmission do you have it coupled to? Have been considering this > sort of set up for a small displacement hull power boat. Would live to > see pics of what you have done! > > Thanks! > Mike >   ----- Original Message ----- >   From: gschnell<mailto:gschnell@...> >   To: > origamiboats@yahoogroups.com<mailto:origamiboats@yahoogroups.com> >   Sent: Wednesday, October 19, 2005 8:24 PM >   Subject: Re: [origamiboats] Marinizing an engine > > >   I'm no expert on Marinizing an engine, but here's what I have done. >   Comments Welcome! >   I'm using a little VW 1.8L diesel from an '86 Jetta. I am using the > skeg >   as my "radiator" and plumbing the engine pretty much as it would be > in >   an automtive application, complete with thermostat control. The > cooling >   system holds 68 liters of antifreeze/water mix and also serves as >   waterheater (house water system) via a heatexchanger plumbed as > though >   it were the automotive heater. The cooling water returning from the > skeg >   cools two refrigeration coils (dual refrigeration - engine drive & >   12VDC) and the engine oil. Flow to/from the skeg is controlled by > the >   engine thermostat and a temperature control valve on the cooler line > >   (bypass). >   I have run an insulated SS dry exhaust, complete with vacuum-break > and >   muffler, out thru the transom to exit below the waterline. I have > NOT >   cooled my manifolds, but instead, I am allowing the engine to draw >   intake air from the engine bay, thereby "vacuuming" the bay as it > runs. >   I am providing filtered fresh air from an  intake port inside the >   combings, to replenish the engine bay air. I expect a slight decline > in >   HP due to the warm air intake, but I have sufficient HP, so I don't >   care. > >   Hope this gives you some ideas. I'd be interested in feedback. This >   system is relatively untested. >   Gord Schnell >   Note: Pathfinder Yachts of California used these engines quite >   successfully for more than a decade. I was aboard on in Squamish. > Quiet >   and smooth. It had been marinized. Pathfinder is now located in > Quebec >   and marinizing components are available thru them and from various >   European companies...expensive!!! >   Hence my decision to go the path I have outlined. >   GS > >   kingsknight4life wrote: > >   >  What is involved in marinizing an engine? I found an engine, I > think, >   > >   > but it needs to be marinized. Iwant ti to be skeg cooled and with > a >   > dry exhaust. I know it needs a water cooled manifold, can these > easily >   > >   > be made or purchased? Is that all I need? >   > Thanks Rowland >   > PS the engine is a kubota 43 HP, for my Swain 36 of course >   > >   > >   > >   > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com >   > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: >   > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com >   > >   > >   > >   > SPONSORED LINKS >   > >       British columbia canada       Vancouver island      Yacht > >       Victoria bc > >   > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > >   > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS >   > >   >    +  Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web. >   > >   >    +  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >   >       origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com >   > >   >    +  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of >   >      Service. >   > >   > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > >   > > > >   [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > >   To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com >   To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > - > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > >   YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > >     a..  Visit your group > "origamiboats<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats>" on the web. > >     b..  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com<mailto:origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe> > >     c..  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > Service<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>. > > > - > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > >    +  Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web. > >    +  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >       origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > >    +  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of >      Service. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- >    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]|
9255|9244|2005-10-22 00:01:14|kingsknight4life|Re: Where to buy lead?|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "jericoera" <jericoera@y...>  wrote:  > > In case I decide not to scrounge lead and buy it new, what is the  > price per pound and where do you get it? >  > I am scrounging enough other stuff that i figure I may treat   myself   > unless they want a king's ransom for the leasd like evrything else  > these days. >  > Carl m >  All good posts. Try phoning ALL the scrap dealers in your area,  there is a wide variety between prices. We found people asking from  65 cents/lb to 30 cents/lb. I think the "environmental angle" is BS  they just don't want to bother selling to you or ruining a  relationship with previous buyers. Definitely the smaller scrap  yards are cheaper, as mentioned they sell to the larger dealers. You  could also post an ad. wanting to buy lead at a certain price. Lots  of people have buckshot, dive weights etc kicking around. good luck Rowland|
9256|8329|2005-10-22 00:15:41|prairiemaidca|V.W. Diesel engine.|Hi All:  If anyone is looking for 1.6 fully rebuit V.W. diesel I still  have one for sale.  Martin Forster (Prairie Maid)|
9257|9198|2005-10-22 10:51:38|MIKE WHEELER|Re: Marinizing an engine|Thanks for the info Gord!  I knew there had to be someone that has done something like this. On most of the forums all the "experts" chime in on how something like this won't work whenever marinizing an auto engine is mentioned.    Mike    ----- Original Message -----    From: gschnell<mailto:gschnell@...>    To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com<mailto:origamiboats@yahoogroups.com>    Sent: Friday, October 21, 2005 4:36 PM   Subject: Re: [origamiboats] Marinizing an engine     Mike   A couple of things. I stated the engine is a 1.8L VW......wrong, it's a   1.6L diesel VW. Same block...different engine.   I posted a couple of "engine bay" pics per your request.   Enjoy!   Gord    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
9258|9258|2005-10-22 13:50:31|SHANE ROTHWELL|Engine Shaft allignment|Carl,  No, it's not just theory. Lots of people do it. Read back over Gord Schnell's posting and he has done the exact same thing. Only difference is he used a VW shaft & I used the axel out of a 5 tonn truck. I was able to buy a plumbers block to handle end load which the universals will not tolerate. I had a 1.5" shaft & rubber mounts.  Gord has done some really nice work. I was lucky enough to have a friend tell me about how he did it in his boat, a big steelie he was working on in HK. Maybe I went overboard with the 5 tonn axel & universals for a perkins 4.108 (about 2 litre engine) but I figured that 20-30 extra pounds was a small price to pay for overbuilding it. espcially in light that the boat was 13 tonn. but do go oversized on the engine mounts or you will be dealing with them later & its a hasstle.  the key to rember is that if you hard mount the drive train as mentioned above, you soft mount the engine4 (less vibro's) , but if you soft mount the drive train (as per the standard pain in the ass alligning it to .000000000000000000000000001 mm then you should hard mount the engine. it's one or the other. I just went the easy, cheap & less vibro way, least that's the way it worked for me.  Cheers, Shane   	  	 		 __________________________________________________________  Find your next car at http://autos.yahoo.ca|
9259|9198|2005-10-22 22:46:30|T & D CAIN|Re: Marinizing an engine|A few weeks ago, I stripped quite a few parts from a Pathfinder converted VW 1.6L which had been in a yacht for a long time. In particular, I have a flywheel / Bell housing which appears to be in perfect condition - no corrosion. This is slightly different to my VW's housing in that the fabricated engine mount brackets are bolted to the cast alloy housing and mine are integral cast. Also the starter motor shaft extreme outer bearing is a synthetic bush as opposed to an oiled sintered bronze in the Hawker Siddeley Pirhana version. I am not sure what transmission was used, but being of US origin, it is perhaps an SAE standard PCD. If there is interest in this part, photographs and other details are available.  -----Original Message----- From:	origamiboats@yahoogroups.com [mailto:origamiboats@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of MIKE WHEELER Sent:	Sunday, 23 October 2005 00:21 To:	origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Subject:	Re: [origamiboats] Marinizing an engine|
9260|9198|2005-10-23 11:19:37|Guy Foley|Re: Marinizing an engine|I would be interested in finding out more info. Do you have any other parts like water cooled exhaust and or heat exchanger? Thanks,   Guy   ----- Original Message ----- From: T & D CAIN Sent: Sunday, October 23, 2005 2:09 AM To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [origamiboats] Marinizing an engine  A few weeks ago, I stripped quite a few parts from a Pathfinder converted VW 1.6L which had been in a yacht for a long time. In particular, I have a flywheel / Bell housing which appears to be in perfect condition - no corrosion. This is slightly different to my VW's housing in that the fabricated engine mount brackets are bolted to the cast alloy housing and mine are integral cast. Also the starter motor shaft extreme outer bearing is a synthetic bush as opposed to an oiled sintered bronze in the Hawker Siddeley Pirhana version. I am not sure what transmission was used, but being of US origin, it is perhaps an SAE standard PCD. If there is interest in this part, photographs and other details are available.  -----Original Message----- From:      origamiboats@yahoogroups.com [mailto:origamiboats@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of MIKE WHEELER Sent:      Sunday, 23 October 2005 00:21 To:      origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Subject:      Re: [origamiboats] Marinizing an engine    To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com       YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS     Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web.      To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:  origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com      Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Get more from the Web.  FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com   [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
9261|9261|2005-10-23 12:36:13|john kupris|how to  know a large frame altenator from a small one?  A Great Art|I'm rereading , and am impressed with the article, John Kupris   [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]|
9262|9262|2005-10-23 12:41:11|mickeyolaf|Casting a Lead Keel|There is an easy cheap way to make an exact inside replica of the  keel cavity that is to hold the lead. Wax the inside of the cavity.  Pour two part foam inside higher than you know the lead will go. Pull out the foam plug. Wipe the inside cavity with acetone to  remove the wax. Build a 3/4" plywod box(or whatever wood you have  around)an inch or two larger and taller than the foam plug.  Reinforce the corners. Staple poor mans rebar(coathangers)onto the  insides and bottom of the box. Put the mold on the ground where you  will be melting and pouring your lead. Put 2" of wet cement into the bottom, put the plug in the middle,  and fill up the sides with cement. When the cement has cured pull  out the plug or pour acetone on it and it will disappear. You now  have the perfect inside shape and volume of your keel. Let the  cement cure for a couple of weeks so there is no moisture to pop out  when pouring the lead. Pour in your hot lead to the weight you want. The coathangers will  stop the cement cracking from the heat. Cast in 4 lifting eyes. When  the lead cools it shrinks away from the mold and lift it out. If you  can't lift it out bust up the mold. Saw the lead into four pieces with a chainsaw(each which has an eye)  and lower away into the keel. This method gives you an exact fit  with a 1/8" space all around that can be filled with epoxy as per my  previous message. Almost as easy as pouring a scotch.|
9263|9198|2005-10-23 13:37:50|gschnell|Re: Marinizing an engine|I'd be interested in the water-cooled manifolds that Pathfinder uses. Do you have those?? Gord   T & D CAIN wrote:   >  A few weeks ago, I stripped quite a few parts from a Pathfinder > converted VW > 1.6L which had been in a yacht for a long time. > In particular, I have a flywheel / Bell housing which appears to be in > > perfect condition - no corrosion. This is slightly different to my > VW's > housing in that the fabricated engine mount brackets are bolted to the > cast > alloy housing and mine are integral cast. Also the starter motor shaft > > extreme outer bearing is a synthetic bush as opposed to an oiled > sintered > bronze in the Hawker Siddeley Pirhana version. I am not sure what > transmission was used, but being of US origin, it is perhaps an SAE > standard > PCD. > If there is interest in this part, photographs and other details are > available. > > -----Original Message----- > From:      origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:origamiboats@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of MIKE WHEELER > Sent:      Sunday, 23 October 2005 00:21 > To:      origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > Subject:      Re: [origamiboats] Marinizing an engine > > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > >    +  Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web. > >    +  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >       origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > >    +  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of >      Service. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- >    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]|
9264|9262|2005-10-23 16:25:56|Paul Cotter|Re: Casting a Lead Keel|Could you just weld up a short, phoney, keel (maybe 4 inches high) with scrap steel, put a couple transverse dividers in it, and pour lead. The resulting ingots would be light, fit nicely (some filler – epoxy or concrete would also be used). Seems to be as many ideas about casting lead as there are members of the group. I used to dread that stage….now it seems easy.   Cheers    -----Original Message----- From: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com [mailto:origamiboats@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of mickeyolaf Sent: 10/23/2005 8:41 AM To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Subject: [origamiboats] Casting a Lead Keel   There is an easy cheap way to make an exact inside replica of the  keel cavity that is to hold the lead. Wax the inside of the cavity.  Pour two part foam inside higher than you know the lead will go. Pull out the foam plug. Wipe the inside cavity with acetone to  remove the wax. Build a 3/4" plywod box(or whatever wood you have  around)an inch or two larger and taller than the foam plug.  Reinforce the corners. Staple poor mans rebar(coathangers)onto the  insides and bottom of the box. Put the mold on the ground where you  will be melting and pouring your lead. Put 2" of wet cement into the bottom, put the plug in the middle,  and fill up the sides with cement. When the cement has cured pull  out the plug or pour acetone on it and it will disappear. You now  have the perfect inside shape and volume of your keel. Let the  cement cure for a couple of weeks so there is no moisture to pop out  when pouring the lead. Pour in your hot lead to the weight you want. The coathangers will  stop the cement cracking from the heat. Cast in 4 lifting eyes. When  the lead cools it shrinks away from the mold and lift it out. If you  can't lift it out bust up the mold. Saw the lead into four pieces with a chainsaw(each which has an eye)  and lower away into the keel. This method gives you an exact fit  with a 1/8" space all around that can be filled with epoxy as per my  previous message. Almost as easy as pouring a scotch.      To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com     SPONSORED LINKS   British <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=British+columbia+canada&w1=British+ columbia+canada&w2=Vancouver+island&w3=Yacht&w4=Victoria+bc&c=4&s=79&.si g=9R67WCgMr5OvBLa-xHHyGA>  columbia canada  Vancouver <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Vancouver+island&w1=British+columbi a+canada&w2=Vancouver+island&w3=Yacht&w4=Victoria+bc&c=4&s=79&.sig=yL5WO tgPnpYAmd1P5N16cw>  island  Yacht <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Yacht&w1=British+columbia+canada&w2 =Vancouver+island&w3=Yacht&w4=Victoria+bc&c=4&s=79&.sig=VvQDFUjkrcc6EJ4x XP0vjg>    Victoria <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Victoria+bc&w1=British+columbia+can ada&w2=Vancouver+island&w3=Yacht&w4=Victoria+bc&c=4&s=79&.sig=QTHu1FWCcM WsTCz7vGyGdg>  bc          _____    YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS    *          Visit your group "origamiboats <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats> " on the web.    *          To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:  origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <mailto:origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>     *          Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>  Terms of Service.      _____      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]|
9265|9262|2005-10-24 02:00:07|kingsknight4life|Re: Casting a Lead Keel|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Cotter" <paulcotter@a...>  wrote: ...Seems to be as many ideas about casting  > lead as there are members of the group. I used to dread that   stageÂ….now  > it seems easy. >   > Cheers  >   >The hardest part for me by far was deciding how to do it. My best   advice is to just pick any one of the good ways mentioned and just do  it. Some will be harder or easier depending on your skills, resources  etc. All will eventually get the job done. Best of luck, Rowland|
9266|9266|2005-10-24 02:08:18|kingsknight4life|Wood burning stove|Hi all.  It's that time again where, I'm faced with a dilema. I am roughing in  my interior and can't seem to get a woodstove to fit, at least not  without giving up something else. Before I agonize any more over this,  I was wondering who on this forum has a woodstove? If they do, how  much do they use it and do they only use it at anchor? Finally what  kind of clearances around the stove are necessary and any other  miscellaneous tips, hints or final thoughts?  I want to keep my woodstove, mostly for economic reasons (diesel isn't  getting cheaper). I may not be able to justify it though if I can only  use it at anhor without getting covered in smoke and soot. Thanks, Rowland.|
9267|9266|2005-10-24 05:45:38|cirejay|Re: Wood burning stove|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "kingsknight4life"  <wildcatbjj@h...> wrote:   > I want to keep my woodstove, mostly for economic reasons (diesel   isn't   > getting cheaper). I may not be able to justify it though if I can   only   > use it at anhor without getting covered in smoke and soot.   Rowland, I had a Cole brand woodstove in a small 31', about 15 years  ago. I liked the type of heat it gave off and I just plain love a  wood fire.  That being said, if your plan is to go off sailing or  heating 24/7, day in/day out, then I would advise against such.  One  just cannot carry enough heat (wood) onboard to meet the heating  requirements.  The diesel/kerosene pot burners use as little as just  over 1 gal a day and give off an awful lot of heat for the room that  1 gal takes up.  Back drafts are a real concern and I can't speak to using a wood  stove underway but even an oil burner has those problems.  That is  why I'm going to a 'positive draft' system in the heater that I will  be installing.  Sigmar has offered such for quite some time as has  Reflex; Dickinson, has just started offering it.   I'm currently refitting a plastic 35' and will be putting in a  diesel/kerosene heater with a water coil. I haven't decided on brand  but it will probably be a Sigmar if I can get a water coil in the  model I want.   I'm interested in how others have dealt with the back draft problem  while underway.  eric S/V Nebaras|
9268|9266|2005-10-24 06:48:28|Gerald Niffenegger|Re: Wood burning stove|I am looking at backpack stoves as a heat source for a furnace. Wonder  if anyone else has considered these. http://www.backcountry-equipment.com/stoves/liquidfuel-stoves.php Some of the stoves listed will burn about anything, including diesel.  Would love a wood stove but just can't figure out how to fit it into my  boat. These stoves produce a blue flame so the problem of soot would  probably not exist? Gerald|
9269|9266|2005-10-24 07:50:31|Bill Jaine|Re: Wood burning stove|Have a look at the ZODI camp heaters, propane run, burner outside the cabin     Bill   Port Hope. Canada     -----Original Message----- From: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com [mailto:origamiboats@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Gerald Niffenegger Sent: 24-Oct-05 6:47 AM To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Wood burning stove       I am looking at backpack stoves as a heat source for a furnace. Wonder  if anyone else has considered these. HYPERLINK "http://www.backcountry-equipment.com/stoves/liquidfuel-stoves.php"http://ww w.backcountry-equipment.com/stoves/liquidfuel-stoves.php Some of the stoves listed will burn about anything, including diesel.  Would love a wood stove but just can't figure out how to fit it into my  boat. These stoves produce a blue flame so the problem of soot would  probably not exist? Gerald      To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com         _____    YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS      *         Visit your group "HYPERLINK "http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats"origamiboats" on the web.     *         To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:  HYPERLINK "mailto:origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe"origami boats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com     *         Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the HYPERLINK "http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/"Yahoo! Terms of Service.         _____     -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.361 / Virus Database: 267.12.4/146 - Release Date: 21/10/2005    --  No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.361 / Virus Database: 267.12.4/146 - Release Date: 21/10/2005     [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]|
9270|9198|2005-10-24 08:43:14|T & D CAIN|Re: Marinizing an engine|Gord, Unfortunately the people who were responsible for investigating or removing the engine from the boat damaged the Bowman combination heatexchanger/manifold/head tank, which is a model VW150 and is allegedly still available new as are all the parts. The damage is to both ends of the cast alloy section which houses the tube stack. About 6 tubes in the stack have been indented as a result. Number one cylinder exhaust stub flange was also damaged. I suppose the casting could be repaired, but those tubes would be a pain to replace or fix as they are silver brazed to the header ends of the stack. As you probably know, the neoprene end caps need to fit and seal both the alloy ends and the tube stack headers. I can take some photos of the parts if required. This model heat exchanger is identical to mine. I had a look in the top of the camshaft case and the damn thing looked like new! Apparently the engine was seized (#3 cylinder) and a A$12000 Yanmar was installed by the new owner. I stripped most easily removable bits including the damper drive which looked new --- I should have just taken the whole engine as it was headed for the tip. Terry -----Original Message----- From:	origamiboats@yahoogroups.com [mailto:origamiboats@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of gschnell Sent:	Monday, 24 October 2005 03:06 To:	origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Subject:	Re: [origamiboats] Marinizing an engine|
9271|9198|2005-10-24 08:43:15|T & D CAIN|Re: Marinizing an engine|Guy, please refer to the reply to Gord. Terry  -----Original Message----- From:	origamiboats@yahoogroups.com [mailto:origamiboats@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Guy Foley Sent:	Monday, 24 October 2005 00:50 To:	origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Subject:	Re: [origamiboats] Marinizing an engine  I would be interested in finding out more info. Do you have any other parts like water cooled exhaust and or heat exchanger? Thanks, Guy|
9272|9198|2005-10-24 08:44:40|Guy Foley|Re: Marinizing an engine|Whoops,    ----- Original Message -----    From: T & D CAIN<mailto:thcain@...>    To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com<mailto:origamiboats@yahoogroups.com>    Sent: Monday, October 24, 2005 5:43 AM   Subject: RE: [origamiboats] Marinizing an engine     Guy, please refer to the reply to Gord.   Terry    -----Original Message-----   From:      origamiboats@yahoogroups.com<mailto:origamiboats@yahoogroups.com> [mailto:origamiboats@yahoogroups.com] On   Behalf Of Guy Foley   Sent:      Monday, 24 October 2005 00:50   To:      origamiboats@yahoogroups.com<mailto:origamiboats@yahoogroups.com>   Subject:      Re: [origamiboats] Marinizing an engine    I would be interested in finding out more info. Do you have any other parts   like water cooled exhaust and or heat exchanger?   Thanks,   Guy      To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com   To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com       SPONSORED LINKS British columbia canada<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=British+columbia+canada&w1=British+columbia+canada&w2=Vancouver+island&w3=Yacht&w4=Victoria+bc&c=4&s=79&.sig=9R67WCgMr5OvBLa-xHHyGA>  Vancouver island<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Vancouver+island&w1=British+columbia+canada&w2=Vancouver+island&w3=Yacht&w4=Victoria+bc&c=4&s=79&.sig=yL5WOtgPnpYAmd1P5N16cw>  Yacht<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Yacht&w1=British+columbia+canada&w2=Vancouver+island&w3=Yacht&w4=Victoria+bc&c=4&s=79&.sig=VvQDFUjkrcc6EJ4xXP0vjg>           Victoria bc<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Victoria+bc&w1=British+columbia+canada&w2=Vancouver+island&w3=Yacht&w4=Victoria+bc&c=4&s=79&.sig=QTHu1FWCcMWsTCz7vGyGdg>     ------------------------------------------------------------------------------   YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS       a..  Visit your group "origamiboats<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats>" on the web.            b..  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:      origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com<mailto:origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>            c..  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------     [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
9273|9266|2005-10-24 11:53:51|kingsknight4life|Re: Wood burning stove|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Gerald Niffenegger"  <niffeneggerniff@a...> wrote:  > >  >  > I am looking at backpack stoves as a heat source for a furnace.   Wonder   > if anyone else has considered these. > ...   Hi Gerald  I've used a few of those backpacking stoves before, for backpacking. I  seriosly doubt you could heat a boat with one. Rowland|
9274|9266|2005-10-24 13:14:06|Courtney Thomas|Re: Wood burning stove|How about one of the 23K btu free-standing kerosene stoves being sold at  WalMart, Home Depot, etc.... ?  Thanks, Courtney  kingsknight4life wrote:  > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Gerald Niffenegger"  > <niffeneggerniff@a...> wrote: >  >> >> >>I am looking at backpack stoves as a heat source for a furnace.  >  > Wonder  >  >>if anyone else has considered these. >>... >  >  > Hi Gerald >  > I've used a few of those backpacking stoves before, for backpacking. I  > seriosly doubt you could heat a boat with one. > Rowland >  >  >  >  >  >  > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com  > Yahoo! Groups Links >  >  >  >   >  >  > |
9275|9266|2005-10-24 13:45:07|Jim Douglas|Re: Wood burning stove|Rowland,  Do a Yahoo search for Navigator Stoves, They are designed to replace  your kitchen stove, burn wood and can be converted to diesel or  alcohol as well. And their Sardine Model is quite small   Then do another search on James Baldwin's site.  He uses a gimballed  kerosine stove with an integral pot holder to do the lions share of  all his cooking in frying pans or in his pressure cooker. Also take  a good look at how he lines the cooking area with stainless steel  sheeting.  It was my thought I would use both of these for all my cooking and  heating needs on my boat.  The ability to convert the wood to diesel  would be really good for those times I would be located in some  place where wood is scare.  Out here in B.C. I don't think that will  be much of a problem.  JIm Douglas North Vancouver, B.C.       --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "kingsknight4life"  <wildcatbjj@h...> wrote:  >   > Hi all. >  > It's that time again where, I'm faced with a dilema. I am roughing   in   > my interior and can't seem to get a woodstove to fit, at least not  > without giving up something else. Before I agonize any more over   this,   > I was wondering who on this forum has a woodstove? If they do, how  > much do they use it and do they only use it at anchor? Finally   what   > kind of clearances around the stove are necessary and any other  > miscellaneous tips, hints or final thoughts? >  > I want to keep my woodstove, mostly for economic reasons (diesel   isn't   > getting cheaper). I may not be able to justify it though if I can   only   > use it at anhor without getting covered in smoke and soot. > Thanks, Rowland. > |
9276|9262|2005-10-24 15:13:08|Dick Pilz|Re: Casting a Lead Keel|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "kingsknight4life" <wildcatbjj@h...> wrote:  > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Cotter" <paulcotter@a...>  > wrote: > ...Seems to be as many ideas about casting > > lead as there are members of the group. I used to dread that  > stageÂ….now > > it seems easy. > >   > > Cheers  > >   > >The hardest part for me by far was deciding how to do it. My best  > advice is to just pick any one of the good ways mentioned and just do  > it. Some will be harder or easier depending on your skills, resources  > etc. All will eventually get the job done. > Best of luck, > Rowland >  If you do go to the trouble of making a foam pattern as described earlier, why not skip the removal of the foam step and just allow the hot lead hitting the foam do the trick?  Foam cores are used by the tens of millions every year in the auto industry to produce near-die-cast quality parts from aluminum or iron. The cores are placed in sand and never removed.  Molten lead is not that much cooler than aluminum (American spelling, aluminium for all other English speakers>)  Dick|
9277|9266|2005-10-24 19:07:02|cirejay|Re: Wood burning stove|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Courtney Thomas <ccthomas@j...>  wrote:  > How about one of the 23K btu free-standing kerosene stoves being   sold at   > WalMart, Home Depot, etc.... ?   > kingsknight4life wrote: > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Gerald Niffenegger"  > > <niffeneggerniff@a...> wrote: > >I am looking at backpack stoves as a heat source for a furnace.  >  Wonder if anyone else has considered these.   There are two major - well, one major and one might as well be  major - problems with heating a boat with and open, non-vented  flame.  Yep, non-vented is the clue.   The major-major problem could be the last one you will ever have:  CO.    The major-minor problem is one that will be obvious to anyone who  has lived onboard during the winter, and that's humidity. Without  open combustion putting out lots more, it is unreal how much  humidity and thus condensation on cold surfaces there is, even on a  well-insulated boat. So, even if you want to risk killing yourself,  think of the inconvenience of all that humidity:-)  eric S/V Nebaras|
9278|9278|2005-10-24 19:54:28|Jason Stancil|welder and plasma cutters for aluminum construction?|Folks i'm considering building a small aluminum boat and could use some  imput on what equipment you folks like and recomend. I've taken a few  class at the local school and feel good about my skills but my little  115 volt arc and wire welders are not up to the task. Because of  aluminum's thermal conductivity i'm really not sure how small i can go  as everyone touts their equipment specs for mild steel. I'd rather not  have to sell my car for some new equipment or have to bevel every piece  of Aluminum because my machines can't get good penetration........then  again is there something to be said for multipass beveled welds as a  way to control heat and distortion. 1/4 would be about as thick as i'd  have to weld....maybe a bit more on the keel plates.  Thanks, Jason|
9279|9266|2005-10-24 20:18:23|Courtney Thomas|Re: Wood burning stove|On Monday 24 October 2005 16:06, cirejay wrote:  > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Courtney Thomas <ccthomas@j...> > > wrote: > > How about one of the 23K btu free-standing kerosene stoves being > > sold at > > > WalMart, Home Depot, etc.... ? > > > > kingsknight4life wrote: > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Gerald Niffenegger" > > > <niffeneggerniff@a...> wrote: > > >I am looking at backpack stoves as a heat source for a furnace. > > > >  Wonder if anyone else has considered these. > > There are two major - well, one major and one might as well be > major - problems with heating a boat with and open, non-vented > flame.  Yep, non-vented is the clue. > > The major-major problem could be the last one you will ever have: > CO. > > The major-minor problem is one that will be obvious to anyone who > has lived onboard during the winter, and that's humidity. Without > open combustion putting out lots more, it is unreal how much > humidity and thus condensation on cold surfaces there is, even on a > well-insulated boat. So, even if you want to risk killing yourself, > think of the inconvenience of all that humidity:-) > > eric S/V Nebaras   Understood. Thank you.  What I don't understand is, if they are that dangerous, how is it they are  sold, not only in the U.S. but by such as WalMart and Home Depot, who've got  lots to lose should they be sued.  Of course, I understand that it won't do you any good if you are the victim,  but I can't seem to complete this puzzle.  Thanks again, Courtney   > > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links > > > |
9280|9266|2005-10-24 20:33:20|Gerald Niffenegger|Re: Wood burning stove|>  > Hi Gerald >  > I've used a few of those backpacking stoves before, for backpacking.   I   > seriosly doubt you could heat a boat with one. > Rowland >  The back pack stoves I pointed out put out around 10,000 btu. The rest  is just math. If it won't heat your boat then a person needs to look to  other means.  However, I don't ever remember saying that I wanted to place one on the  cabin floor and fire it up without ventilation. If one cannot figure  out how to ventilate a heat source, they should stick to bolt in place  store bought items that have a proven track record. Gerald|
9281|9266|2005-10-24 21:45:45|cirejay|Re: Wood burning stove|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Courtney Thomas <ccthomas@j...>  wrote:  > Understood. Thank you. >  > What I don't understand is, if they are that dangerous, how is it   they are   > sold, not only in the U.S. but by such as WalMart and Home Depot,   who've got   > lots to lose should they be sued. >  > Of course, I understand that it won't do you any good if you are   the victim,   > but I can't seem to complete this puzzle.   Courtney, Consider the cubic footage of a decent size boat against  that of even a small apartment and then Google "carbon  monoxide" "space heater".  Many people die from CO every year in  apartments and houses that are much larger than boats.    I have a cruising acquaintance who almost killed himself and his  significant other by running a gas generator on deck while they  slept down below. The co made it's way down the blower vent.  The only thing that  saved them was his size.  She spent a few days in the hospital.  So,  maybe I'm overly cautious but I'd rather it be a following wave that  got me than CO.   Come to think of it, I've been meaning to get my son - a live  aboard - a CO detector.  I'll do that first thing tomorrow. eric S/V Nebaras|
9282|9266|2005-10-24 21:57:49|kingsknight4life|Re: Wood burning stove|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Gerald Niffenegger"  <niffeneggerniff@a...> wrote:  > >  > >  > > Hi Gerald > >  > > I've used a few of those backpacking stoves before, for   backpacking.   > I  > > seriosly doubt you could heat a boat with one. > > Rowland > > > The back pack stoves I pointed out put out around 10,000 btu. The   rest   > is just math. If it won't heat your boat then a person needs to   look to   > other means.  >...   Gerald  you may be right about the stoves. I've used a few differnet ones  and currently own a MSR Whisperlite, guess it never seemed hot  enough because I always use it backpacking, therfore outside. Still  it's not really an option for me. I'm leaning towards building my  own woodstove or buying a diesel heater like the Sigmar. Anyone out  there with a wood stove currently on board that can answer my  questions regarding use hen sailing, space limitations etc.?  Sincerely Rowland|
9283|9262|2005-10-24 23:06:29|tom|Re: Casting a Lead Keel|Have you actualy pored lead in cement mold ?  ----- Original Message -----  From: "mickeyolaf" <mickeyolaf@...> To: <origamiboats@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, October 23, 2005 9:40 AM Subject: [origamiboats] Casting a Lead Keel   > There is an easy cheap way to make an exact inside replica of the > keel cavity that is to hold the lead. Wax the inside of the cavity. > Pour two part foam inside higher than you know the lead will go. > Pull out the foam plug. Wipe the inside cavity with acetone to > remove the wax. Build a 3/4" plywod box(or whatever wood you have > around)an inch or two larger and taller than the foam plug. > Reinforce the corners. Staple poor mans rebar(coathangers)onto the > insides and bottom of the box. Put the mold on the ground where you > will be melting and pouring your lead. > Put 2" of wet cement into the bottom, put the plug in the middle, > and fill up the sides with cement. When the cement has cured pull > out the plug or pour acetone on it and it will disappear. You now > have the perfect inside shape and volume of your keel. Let the > cement cure for a couple of weeks so there is no moisture to pop out > when pouring the lead. > Pour in your hot lead to the weight you want. The coathangers will > stop the cement cracking from the heat. Cast in 4 lifting eyes. When > the lead cools it shrinks away from the mold and lift it out. If you > can't lift it out bust up the mold. > Saw the lead into four pieces with a chainsaw(each which has an eye) > and lower away into the keel. This method gives you an exact fit > with a 1/8" space all around that can be filled with epoxy as per my > previous message. > Almost as easy as pouring a scotch. > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:  > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > |
9284|9262|2005-10-24 23:35:31|mickeyolaf|Re: Casting a Lead Keel|Yes and it worked fine but the cement has to be moisture metered to ensure it is dry. The idea is from Nova Scotia where the box is placed in the  ground, the lead was heated in a bathtub and then drained out into the box which was put in the ground to make it lower. The keel was lifted out with a forklift.            --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "tom" <tazmann@i...> wrote: > > Have you actualy pored lead in cement mold ? > ----- Original Message -----  > From: "mickeyolaf" mickeyolaf@y... > To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Sunday, October 23, 2005 9:40 AM > Subject: [origamiboats] Casting a Lead Keel >  >  > > There is an easy cheap way to make an exact inside replica of the > > keel cavity that is to hold the lead. Wax the inside of the cavity. > > Pour two part foam inside higher than you know the lead will go. > > Pull out the foam plug. Wipe the inside cavity with acetone to > > remove the wax. Build a 3/4" plywod box(or whatever wood you have > > around)an inch or two larger and taller than the foam plug. > > Reinforce the corners. Staple poor mans rebar(coathangers)onto the > > insides and bottom of the box. Put the mold on the ground where you > > will be melting and pouring your lead. > > Put 2" of wet cement into the bottom, put the plug in the middle, > > and fill up the sides with cement. When the cement has cured pull > > out the plug or pour acetone on it and it will disappear. You now > > have the perfect inside shape and volume of your keel. Let the > > cement cure for a couple of weeks so there is no moisture to pop out > > when pouring the lead. > > Pour in your hot lead to the weight you want. The coathangers will > > stop the cement cracking from the heat. Cast in 4 lifting eyes. When > > the lead cools it shrinks away from the mold and lift it out. If you > > can't lift it out bust up the mold. > > Saw the lead into four pieces with a chainsaw(each which has an eye) > > and lower away into the keel. This method gives you an exact fit > > with a 1/8" space all around that can be filled with epoxy as per my > > previous message. > > Almost as easy as pouring a scotch. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:  > > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > |
9285|9198|2005-10-25 03:58:44|T & D CAIN|Re: Marinizing an engine|Guy, now I know what you meant! Gord. has prompted a second send --- it was in the sent items box ????? Terry  -----Original Message----- From:	origamiboats@yahoogroups.com [mailto:origamiboats@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Guy Foley Sent:	Monday, 24 October 2005 22:15 To:	origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Subject:	Re: [origamiboats] Marinizing an engine  Whoops,    ----- Original Message -----   From: T & D CAIN<mailto:thcain@...>   To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com<mailto:origamiboats@yahoogroups.com>   Sent: Monday, October 24, 2005 5:43 AM   Subject: RE: [origamiboats] Marinizing an engine |
9286|9198|2005-10-25 04:12:31|T & D CAIN|Re-send of mail_ Marinizing an engine|Gord, Unfortunately the people who were responsible for investigating or removing the engine from the boat damaged the Bowman combination heatexchanger/manifold/head tank, which is a model VW150 and is allegedly still available new as are all the parts. The damage is to both ends of the cast alloy section which houses the tube stack. About 6 tubes in the stack have been indented as a result. Number one cylinder exhaust stub flange was also damaged on the head mating face (not serious). I suppose the casting could be repaired, but those tubes would be a pain to replace or fix as they are silver brazed to the header ends of the stack. As you probably know, the neoprene end caps need to fit and seal both the alloy housing ends and the tube stack headers. I can take some photos of the parts if required. This model heat exchanger is identical to mine. I had a look in the top of the camshaft case and the damn thing looked like new! Apparently the engine was seized (#3 cylinder) and a A$12000 Yanmar was installed by the new owner. I stripped most easily removable bits including the damper drive which looked new --- I should have just taken the whole engine as it was headed for the tip. Terry -----Original Message----- From:	origamiboats@yahoogroups.com [mailto:origamiboats@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of gschnell Sent:	Monday, 24 October 2005 03:06 To:	origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Subject:	Re: [origamiboats] Marinizing an engine|
9287|9266|2005-10-25 05:02:57|edward_stoneuk|Re: Wood burning stove|Courtney.>> >>Fossil fuels are a mixture of carbon and hydrogen.  When they are burnt in air they combine with oxygen (O2) in the air and oxidise to form carbon dioxide (CO2) and water (H2O).  Below are combustion equations for:>> >> MethaneCH4 + 2O2 --> CO2 + 2H2O>> >> >>PropaneC3H8 + 5O2  --> 3CO2 + 4H2O>> >>If there is insufficient air and therefore oxygen the fuel is only partially oxidised to the poisonous carbon monoxide (CO) and not fully oxidised to carbon dioxide (CO2), which is the same stuff that we breath out.  This fact is the same for all fossil fuels, wood, coal, gasoline, kerosene, propane etc.  With well-designed burners and sufficient air for oxygen then all is well.  Insufficient air mixing with the fuel or too low a temperature to fully oxidise and deadly carbon monoxide is formed.  If you breath enough of this you will feel drowsy and drop into an everlasting sleep.  White people's skin turns pink. The output of water (vapour) from a fire is surprising at first, but explains steamy galleys and why windows stream with condensation when a stand alone gas or kerosene heater is used.  Ventilation is very important.  Regards,Ted      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]|
9288|9266|2005-10-25 05:21:19|edward_stoneuk|Re: Wood burning stove|In my last post I tried the Rich-text Editor (Beta) button to get the  equations to look correct with the right subscripts.  Unfortunately it  didn't work too well, but I hope it makes some kind of sense. Regards, Ted|
9289|9198|2005-10-25 07:19:58|Bill Jaine|Re: Re-send of mail_ Marinizing an engine|The main tip I have is to use Performance Chemicals  Stanadyne diesel additive, I drive a 1992 diesel Jetta with 350,000k on it and have used this additive, at my diesel mechanics insistence, for the last 12 years.  Stuff keeps the injectors really clean�better that anything else. I gave a bottle to a friend who�s Volvo was smoking like crazy, cleared it up.      Bill (no realationships at all to the company)  Port Hope. Canada     -----Original Message----- From: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com [mailto:origamiboats@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of T & D CAIN Sent: 25-Oct-05 3:40 AM To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Subject: [origamiboats] Re-send of mail_ Marinizing an engine     Gord, Unfortunately the people who were responsible for investigating or removing the engine from the boat damaged the Bowman combination heatexchanger/manifold/head tank, which is a model VW150 and is allegedly still available new as are all the parts. The damage is to both ends of the cast alloy section which houses the tube stack. About 6 tubes in the stack have been indented as a result. Number one cylinder exhaust stub flange was also damaged on the head mating face (not serious). I suppose the casting could be repaired, but those tubes would be a pain to replace or fix as they are silver brazed to the header ends of the stack. As you probably know, the neoprene end caps need to fit and seal both the alloy housing ends and the tube stack headers. I can take some photos of the parts if required. This model heat exchanger is identical to mine. I had a look in the top of the camshaft case and the damn thing looked like new! Apparently the engine was seized (#3 cylinder) and a A$12000 Yanmar was installed by the new owner. I stripped most easily removable bits including the damper drive which looked new --- I should have just taken the whole engine as it was headed for the tip. Terry -----Original Message----- From:      origamiboats@yahoogroups.com [mailto:origamiboats@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of gschnell Sent:      Monday, 24 October 2005 03:06 To:      origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Subject:      Re: [origamiboats] Marinizing an engine    To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com      SPONSORED LINKS    HYPERLINK "http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=British+columbia+canada&w1=British+colu mbia+canada&w2=Vancouver+island&w3=Yacht&w4=Victoria+bc&c=4&s=79&.sig=9R67WC gMr5OvBLa-xHHyGA"British columbia canada   HYPERLINK "http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Vancouver+island&w1=British+columbia+ca nada&w2=Vancouver+island&w3=Yacht&w4=Victoria+bc&c=4&s=79&.sig=yL5WOtgPnpYAm d1P5N16cw"Vancouver island   HYPERLINK "http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Yacht&w1=British+columbia+canada&w2=Van couver+island&w3=Yacht&w4=Victoria+bc&c=4&s=79&.sig=VvQDFUjkrcc6EJ4xXP0vjg"Y acht    HYPERLINK "http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Victoria+bc&w1=British+columbia+canada& w2=Vancouver+island&w3=Yacht&w4=Victoria+bc&c=4&s=79&.sig=QTHu1FWCcMWsTCz7vG yGdg"Victoria bc               _____    YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS      *         Visit your group "HYPERLINK "http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats"origamiboats" on the web.     *         To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:  HYPERLINK "mailto:origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe"origami boats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com     *         Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the HYPERLINK "http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/"Yahoo! Terms of Service.         _____     -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.361 / Virus Database: 267.12.4/146 - Release Date: 21/10/2005    --  No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.361 / Virus Database: 267.12.4/146 - Release Date: 21/10/2005     [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]|
9290|9266|2005-10-25 08:15:55|Courtney Thomas|Re: Wood burning stove|On Monday 24 October 2005 18:45, cirejay wrote:  > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Courtney Thomas <ccthomas@j...> > > wrote: > > Understood. Thank you. > > > > What I don't understand is, if they are that dangerous, how is it > > they are > > > sold, not only in the U.S. but by such as WalMart and Home Depot, > > who've got > > > lots to lose should they be sued. > > > > Of course, I understand that it won't do you any good if you are > > the victim, > > > but I can't seem to complete this puzzle. > > Courtney, Consider the cubic footage of a decent size boat against > that of even a small apartment and then Google "carbon > monoxide" "space heater".  Many people die from CO every year in > apartments and houses that are much larger than boats.   Eric,  Thank you for your reply.  I understand/stood the CO problem. What I don't understand is that these big  retailers incurring the risk of selling known dangerous products. It's not a  road I'd go down if I was CEO.  The second mystery, is why there's no U.S. prohibition of these devices, as  configured. I again realize that all heating devices have some risk, but why  don't the regulatory people at least require some sort of CO detector be  installed so that the heater can't run without.  I'd guess if there was a satisfactory CO detector and adequate ventilation,  that they might be OK.   I have a bulkhead mounted, vented propane heater with tanks in the cockpit, on  my boat but still assume some CO must be expelled into the cabin, but the  humidity is such that considerable ventilation is necessary, hence don't  worry much about CO but do plan on a detector before next heater use.  Cordially, Courtney   > > I have a cruising acquaintance who almost killed himself and his > significant other by running a gas generator on deck while they > slept down below. > The co made it's way down the blower vent.  The only thing that > saved them was his size.  She spent a few days in the hospital.  So, > maybe I'm overly cautious but I'd rather it be a following wave that > got me than CO. > Come to think of it, I've been meaning to get my son - a live > aboard - a CO detector.  I'll do that first thing tomorrow. > eric S/V Nebaras > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links > > > |
9291|9266|2005-10-25 08:40:33|Courtney Thomas|what2look4 in a CO detector........was->Wood burning stove|Recommended CO detector, where to get it and what to avoid, would be  appreciated.  Cordially, Courtney    On Tuesday 25 October 2005 02:15, edward_stoneuk wrote: > In my last post I tried the Rich-text Editor (Beta) button to get the > equations to look correct with the right subscripts.  Unfortunately it > didn't work too well, but I hope it makes some kind of sense. > Regards, > Ted > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links > > > |
9292|9266|2005-10-25 09:45:07|Carl Volkwein|Re: Wood burning stove|Either that, or choose a warmer cruseing ground?  What kind(how much) ventalation is needed for a wood burning stove?      Carl Volkwein from W.V.  Gerald Niffenegger <niffeneggerniff@...> wrote:   >  > Hi Gerald >  > I've used a few of those backpacking stoves before, for backpacking.   I   > seriosly doubt you could heat a boat with one. > Rowland >  The back pack stoves I pointed out put out around 10,000 btu. The rest  is just math. If it won't heat your boat then a person needs to look to  other means.  However, I don't ever remember saying that I wanted to place one on the  cabin floor and fire it up without ventilation. If one cannot figure  out how to ventilate a heat source, they should stick to bolt in place  store bought items that have a proven track record. Gerald      To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com     SPONSORED LINKS  British columbia canada Vancouver island Yacht Victoria bc   --------------------------------- YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS        Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web.        To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:  origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com        Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.    ---------------------------------    		 ---------------------------------  Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click.    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]|
9293|9278|2005-10-25 09:49:43|Dan McKee|Re: welder and plasma cutters for aluminum construction?|Jason, I used a miller 200 and a CK gun to weld my boat (1/8, 3/16, and 1/4 5052). Would not want anything less. Much of the time I ran at full output and as fast as the wire would go. Only way to wet out well without overlap. I didn't use a plasma as carbide saws are faster and cleaner. The cheap ten tooth contractor blades (nail cutting) work very well and last through many hundreds of feet of aluminum, both 5052 sheet and 6061 pipe. Used a saber saw for some small curves though the skill saw could carve small curve very swiftly with a little technique. The CK guns are now sold by Lincoln, are small and handy, and hold up very well. for my boat "Bug" I used about thirty of the one pound spools of 5356 .030 and .035 for the cabin, railing, motor cover, bow pulpit, and hatch. I think the .035 ran better even on the thinner aluminum. Good luck. Dan  Jason Stancil <jasonstancil@...> wrote: Folks i'm considering building a small aluminum boat and could use some  imput on what equipment you folks like and recomend. I've taken a few  class at the local school and feel good about my skills but my little  115 volt arc and wire welders are not up to the task. Because of  aluminum's thermal conductivity i'm really not sure how small i can go  as everyone touts their equipment specs for mild steel. I'd rather not  have to sell my car for some new equipment or have to bevel every piece  of Aluminum because my machines can't get good penetration........then  again is there something to be said for multipass beveled welds as a  way to control heat and distortion. 1/4 would be about as thick as i'd  have to weld....maybe a bit more on the keel plates.  Thanks, Jason      To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com     SPONSORED LINKS  British columbia canada Vancouver island Yacht Victoria bc   --------------------------------- YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS        Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web.        To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:  origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com        Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.    ---------------------------------    		 ---------------------------------  Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click.    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]|
9294|9278|2005-10-25 09:51:28|Carl Volkwein|Re: welder and plasma cutters for aluminum construction?|Jason,        I read somewhere, on this groupe I think, that aluminum can be cut useing a circle saw, mabe with the blade turned backwards? and that could give you your bevel cuts.                              Carl Volkwein from W.V.  Jason Stancil <jasonstancil@...> wrote: Folks i'm considering building a small aluminum boat and could use some  imput on what equipment you folks like and recomend. I've taken a few  class at the local school and feel good about my skills but my little  115 volt arc and wire welders are not up to the task. Because of  aluminum's thermal conductivity i'm really not sure how small i can go  as everyone touts their equipment specs for mild steel. I'd rather not  have to sell my car for some new equipment or have to bevel every piece  of Aluminum because my machines can't get good penetration........then  again is there something to be said for multipass beveled welds as a  way to control heat and distortion. 1/4 would be about as thick as i'd  have to weld....maybe a bit more on the keel plates.  Thanks, Jason      To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com     SPONSORED LINKS  British columbia canada Vancouver island Yacht Victoria bc   --------------------------------- YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS        Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web.        To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:  origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com        Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.    ---------------------------------    		 ---------------------------------  Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click.    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]|
9295|9266|2005-10-25 12:25:56|Paul Cotter|Re: Wood burning stove|I make about half my living consulting on indoor air quality issues. Traditionally, weÂ’ve relied on leaky structures to let us get away with combustion byproducts. As our structures get tighter, we need to move to sealed combustion appliances. A steel boat should be darn tight, but you can actively ventilate it by opening hatches etc. Anyway, a sealed combustion heater is a much better route for health reasons, especially on a tight boat, but it is obvious that they are not requiredÂ….throngs of people are not being found dead, poisoned on their boats. They are just found alive, poisoned on their boats.   As far as major outlets selling these appliancesÂ…Â…..its a free market, I suppose. One doesnÂ’t need to walk through Home Depot/Walmart very long to find poisons we put in our home. Twinkies comes to mind. As for indoor air quality, we donÂ’t regulate it and so we can sell and buy really stupid things for our homes. ItÂ’s a chronic problem.   -----Original Message----- From: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com [mailto:origamiboats@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Courtney Thomas Sent: 10/24/2005 6:44 PM To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [origamiboats] Re: Wood burning stove    On Monday 24 October 2005 16:06, cirejay wrote: > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Courtney Thomas <ccthomas@j...> > > wrote: > > How about one of the 23K btu free-standing kerosene stoves being > > sold at > > > WalMart, Home Depot, etc.... ? > > > > kingsknight4life wrote: > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Gerald Niffenegger" > > > <niffeneggerniff@a...> wrote: > > >I am looking at backpack stoves as a heat source for a furnace. > > > >  Wonder if anyone else has considered these. > > There are two major - well, one major and one might as well be > major - problems with heating a boat with and open, non-vented > flame.  Yep, non-vented is the clue. > > The major-major problem could be the last one you will ever have: > CO. > > The major-minor problem is one that will be obvious to anyone who > has lived onboard during the winter, and that's humidity. Without > open combustion putting out lots more, it is unreal how much > humidity and thus condensation on cold surfaces there is, even on a > well-insulated boat. So, even if you want to risk killing yourself, > think of the inconvenience of all that humidity:-) > > eric S/V Nebaras  Understood. Thank you.  What I don't understand is, if they are that dangerous, how is it they are  sold, not only in the U.S. but by such as WalMart and Home Depot, who've got  lots to lose should they be sued.  Of course, I understand that it won't do you any good if you are the victim,  but I can't seem to complete this puzzle.  Thanks again, Courtney  > > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links > > >    To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com     SPONSORED LINKS   British <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=British+columbia+canada&w1=British+ columbia+canada&w2=Vancouver+island&w3=Yacht&w4=Victoria+bc&c=4&s=79&.si g=9R67WCgMr5OvBLa-xHHyGA>  columbia canada  Vancouver <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Vancouver+island&w1=British+columbi a+canada&w2=Vancouver+island&w3=Yacht&w4=Victoria+bc&c=4&s=79&.sig=yL5WO tgPnpYAmd1P5N16cw>  island  Yacht <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Yacht&w1=British+columbia+canada&w2 =Vancouver+island&w3=Yacht&w4=Victoria+bc&c=4&s=79&.sig=VvQDFUjkrcc6EJ4x XP0vjg>    Victoria <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Victoria+bc&w1=British+columbia+can ada&w2=Vancouver+island&w3=Yacht&w4=Victoria+bc&c=4&s=79&.sig=QTHu1FWCcM WsTCz7vGyGdg>  bc          _____    YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS    *          Visit your group "origamiboats <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats> " on the web.    *          To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:  origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <mailto:origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>     *          Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>  Terms of Service.      _____      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
9296|9266|2005-10-25 12:40:09|Paul Cotter|Re: what2look4 in a CO detector........was->Wood burning stove|CO Experts makes a really good one. You have to order it online. After 5 years you through it away. It isnÂ’t cheap, about $100.   -----Original Message----- From: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com [mailto:origamiboats@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Courtney Thomas Sent: 10/25/2005 7:06 AM To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Subject: [origamiboats] what2look4 in a CO detector........was->Wood burning stove   Recommended CO detector, where to get it and what to avoid, would be  appreciated.  Cordially, Courtney    On Tuesday 25 October 2005 02:15, edward_stoneuk wrote: > In my last post I tried the Rich-text Editor (Beta) button to get the > equations to look correct with the right subscripts.  Unfortunately it > didn't work too well, but I hope it makes some kind of sense. > Regards, > Ted > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links > > >    To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com     SPONSORED LINKS   British <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=British+columbia+canada&w1=British+ columbia+canada&w2=Vancouver+island&w3=Yacht&w4=Victoria+bc&c=4&s=79&.si g=9R67WCgMr5OvBLa-xHHyGA>  columbia canada  Vancouver <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Vancouver+island&w1=British+columbi a+canada&w2=Vancouver+island&w3=Yacht&w4=Victoria+bc&c=4&s=79&.sig=yL5WO tgPnpYAmd1P5N16cw>  island  Yacht <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Yacht&w1=British+columbia+canada&w2 =Vancouver+island&w3=Yacht&w4=Victoria+bc&c=4&s=79&.sig=VvQDFUjkrcc6EJ4x XP0vjg>    Victoria <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Victoria+bc&w1=British+columbia+can ada&w2=Vancouver+island&w3=Yacht&w4=Victoria+bc&c=4&s=79&.sig=QTHu1FWCcM WsTCz7vGyGdg>  bc          _____    YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS    *          Visit your group "origamiboats <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats> " on the web.    *          To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:  origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <mailto:origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>     *          Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>  Terms of Service.      _____      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
9297|9266|2005-10-25 12:40:22|Paul Cotter|Re: Wood burning stove|Not wanting to be too cynical here, but most CO detectors are a joke. We’ve done some testing on them and several models sold give an order of magnitude approximation of ambient CO concentrations. This may be fine for whether you live or die, but can have substantial impact on quality of life issues.   Local governments have opposed using good ones in homes, because the alarms go off often and the fire departments get called out for “no reason”. The best CO detector out there is not UL listed mostly because it gives good readouts, and alarms at fairly low levels. Because it is not UL listed, many local governments that have residential CO detector requirements do not accept it as meeting code.   On a boat, a functioning CO detector should be on board. Pretty cheap insurance, really.   Paul    -----Original Message----- From: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com [mailto:origamiboats@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Carl Volkwein Sent: 10/25/2005 5:45 AM To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [origamiboats] Re: Wood burning stove   Either that, or choose a warmer cruseing ground?  What kind(how much) ventalation is needed for a wood burning stove?      Carl Volkwein from W.V.  Gerald Niffenegger <niffeneggerniff@...> wrote:   >  > Hi Gerald >  > I've used a few of those backpacking stoves before, for backpacking.   I   > seriosly doubt you could heat a boat with one. > Rowland >  The back pack stoves I pointed out put out around 10,000 btu. The rest  is just math. If it won't heat your boat then a person needs to look to  other means.  However, I don't ever remember saying that I wanted to place one on the  cabin floor and fire it up without ventilation. If one cannot figure  out how to ventilate a heat source, they should stick to bolt in place  store bought items that have a proven track record. Gerald      To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com     SPONSORED LINKS  British columbia canada Vancouver island Yacht Victoria bc   --------------------------------- YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS        Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web.        To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com        Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.    ---------------------------------                 --------------------------------- Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click.    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]    To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com       _____    YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS    *          Visit your group "origamiboats <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats> " on the web.    *          To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:  origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <mailto:origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>     *          Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>  Terms of Service.      _____      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]|
9298|9198|2005-10-25 13:35:11|GORDON SCHNELL|Re: Marinizing an engine|Terry When I was investigating the practicality of using a VW 1.6, I searched the net for sources of parts. They were mostly from England and Quebec. They all shared a common characteristic......unbelievably expensive. I decided against marinizing at that point. Only time will tell how well this system will work....my biggest concern is the heat from the manifolds and exhaust. I have "wrapped" the exhaust and I am having the engine "vacuum" it's own space by drawing it's air from the engine bay. I am supplying a large filtered fresh air source for the bay.  All this could be avoided (or at least secondary) if I could cool the manifold....but it sounds like the piece you have is "hooped" and I am just NOT going the pay the asking $$ for new.  By the way, I will be in Alberta over Christmas (Red Deer and south). It's possible I could "slip away" for a day a have a look at Prairie Made, if that works for you. Gord   [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]|
9299|9266|2005-10-25 13:41:27|edward_stoneuk|Re: Wood burning stove|My experience of wood burners is that if it is not burning or drawing  right then the room fills with smoke and ones eyes run.  Fuels tend to  burn with a yellow flame and produce soot when they are burning fuel  rich or oxygen deficient and therefore producing CO. Regards, Ted|
9300|9266|2005-10-25 14:45:23|Courtney Thomas|Re: Wood burning stove|Paul,  Thank you for your reply.  I was unaware of the degree which you imply is the case regarding permitting  'poisonous' substances to be knowingly tolerated by 'the authorities' in the  commerce of the U.S.. I'm possibly like the majority who might think that  there was some reasonable balance in these matters between the regulators and  the producers.  Wonder if you'd mind commenting in detail or maybe better for you, pointing us  to an online source that would provide a realistic overview of the degree,  source and range of these problems; and, hopefully, suggested remedies.  More particularly, what is the consequence of the less than lethal, chronic CO  intake ? If anything, is there a known exposure regimen that indicates a  tipping point into irreversible consequence (other than death) ? Can all this  be avoided using CO monitors + ventilation, or would this be mere  conjecture ?  Appreciatively, Courtney     On Tuesday 25 October 2005 09:28, Paul Cotter wrote: > I make about half my living consulting on indoor air quality issues. > Traditionally, weÂ’ve relied on leaky structures to let us get away with > combustion byproducts. As our structures get tighter, we need to move to > sealed combustion appliances. A steel boat should be darn tight, but you > can actively ventilate it by opening hatches etc. Anyway, a sealed > combustion heater is a much better route for health reasons, especially > on a tight boat, but it is obvious that they are not requiredÂ….throngs > of people are not being found dead, poisoned on their boats. They are > just found alive, poisoned on their boats. > > As far as major outlets selling these appliancesÂ…Â…..its a free market, I > suppose. One doesnÂ’t need to walk through Home Depot/Walmart very long > to find poisons we put in our home. Twinkies comes to mind. As for > indoor air quality, we donÂ’t regulate it and so we can sell and buy > really stupid things for our homes. ItÂ’s a chronic problem. > > -----Original Message----- > From: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com [mailto:origamiboats@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of Courtney Thomas > Sent: 10/24/2005 6:44 PM > To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [origamiboats] Re: Wood burning stove > > On Monday 24 October 2005 16:06, cirejay wrote: > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Courtney Thomas <ccthomas@j...> > > > > wrote: > > > How about one of the 23K btu free-standing kerosene stoves being > > > > sold at > > > > > WalMart, Home Depot, etc.... ? > > > > > > kingsknight4life wrote: > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Gerald Niffenegger" > > > > <niffeneggerniff@a...> wrote: > > > >I am looking at backpack stoves as a heat source for a furnace. > > > > > >  Wonder if anyone else has considered these. > > > > There are two major - well, one major and one might as well be > > major - problems with heating a boat with and open, non-vented > > flame.  Yep, non-vented is the clue. > > > > The major-major problem could be the last one you will ever have: > > CO. > > > > The major-minor problem is one that will be obvious to anyone who > > has lived onboard during the winter, and that's humidity. Without > > open combustion putting out lots more, it is unreal how much > > humidity and thus condensation on cold surfaces there is, even on a > > well-insulated boat. So, even if you want to risk killing yourself, > > think of the inconvenience of all that humidity:-) > > > > eric S/V Nebaras > > Understood. Thank you. > > What I don't understand is, if they are that dangerous, how is it they > are > sold, not only in the U.S. but by such as WalMart and Home Depot, who've > got > lots to lose should they be sued. > > Of course, I understand that it won't do you any good if you are the > victim, > but I can't seem to complete this puzzle. > > Thanks again, > Courtney > > > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links > > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > SPONSORED LINKS > > British > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=British+columbia+canada&w1=British+ > columbia+canada&w2=Vancouver+island&w3=Yacht&w4=Victoria+bc&c=4&s=79&.si > g=9R67WCgMr5OvBLa-xHHyGA>  columbia canada > Vancouver > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Vancouver+island&w1=British+columbi > a+canada&w2=Vancouver+island&w3=Yacht&w4=Victoria+bc&c=4&s=79&.sig=yL5WO > tgPnpYAmd1P5N16cw>  island > Yacht > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Yacht&w1=British+columbia+canada&w2 > =Vancouver+island&w3=Yacht&w4=Victoria+bc&c=4&s=79&.sig=VvQDFUjkrcc6EJ4x > XP0vjg> > > Victoria > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Victoria+bc&w1=British+columbia+can > ada&w2=Vancouver+island&w3=Yacht&w4=Victoria+bc&c=4&s=79&.sig=QTHu1FWCcM > WsTCz7vGyGdg>  bc > > > >   _____ > > YAHOO! 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9301|9266|2005-10-25 14:46:44|Courtney Thomas|Re: Wood burning stove|What do you think of the Fluke ?  Courtney    On Tuesday 25 October 2005 09:41, Paul Cotter wrote: > Not wanting to be too cynical here, but most CO detectors are a joke. > We’ve done some testing on them and several models sold give an order of > magnitude approximation of ambient CO concentrations. This may be fine > for whether you live or die, but can have substantial impact on quality > of life issues. > > Local governments have opposed using good ones in homes, because the > alarms go off often and the fire departments get called out for “no > reason”. The best CO detector out there is not UL listed mostly because > it gives good readouts, and alarms at fairly low levels. Because it is > not UL listed, many local governments that have residential CO detector > requirements do not accept it as meeting code. > > On a boat, a functioning CO detector should be on board. Pretty cheap > insurance, really. > > Paul > > -----Original Message----- > From: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com [mailto:origamiboats@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of Carl Volkwein > Sent: 10/25/2005 5:45 AM > To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [origamiboats] Re: Wood burning stove > > Either that, or choose a warmer cruseing ground? > What kind(how much) ventalation is needed for a wood burning stove? >      Carl Volkwein from W.V. > > Gerald Niffenegger <niffeneggerniff@...> wrote: > > Hi Gerald > > > > I've used a few of those backpacking stoves before, for backpacking. > > I > > > seriosly doubt you could heat a boat with one. > > Rowland > > The back pack stoves I pointed out put out around 10,000 btu. The rest > is just math. If it won't heat your boat then a person needs to look to > other means. > However, I don't ever remember saying that I wanted to place one on the > cabin floor and fire it up without ventilation. If one cannot figure > out how to ventilate a heat source, they should stick to bolt in place > store bought items that have a proven track record. > Gerald > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > SPONSORED LINKS > British columbia canada Vancouver island Yacht Victoria bc > > --------------------------------- > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > >     Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web. > >     To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > >     Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > > > --------------------------------- > > > > > --------------------------------- > Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > >   _____ > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > *          Visit your group "origamiboats > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats> " on the web. > > *          To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >  origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe> > > *          Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>  Terms of Service. > >   _____ > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links > > > |
9302|9266|2005-10-25 15:34:37|Jerry Scovel|Re: Wood burning stove|In the US congress goes to the highest bidder, usually the producers that you mention. CO kills brain cells in chronic situations and is irreversible. I would go with the most sensitive detector and the best ventilation possible. As a fireman I choose the 12 volt heaters available at truck stops for about $20 US, when properly fused they are safe and require no ventilation.  on 10/25/05 4:10 PM, Courtney Thomas at ccthomas@... wrote:  Paul,  Thank you for your reply.  I was unaware of the degree which you imply is the case regarding permitting 'poisonous' substances to be knowingly tolerated by 'the authorities' in the commerce of the U.S.. I'm possibly like the majority who might think that there was some reasonable balance in these matters between the regulators and  the producers.  Wonder if you'd mind commenting in detail or maybe better for you, pointing us  to an online source that would provide a realistic overview of the degree, source and range of these problems; and, hopefully, suggested remedies.  More particularly, what is the consequence of the less than lethal, chronic CO  intake ? If anything, is there a known exposure regimen that indicates a tipping point into irreversible consequence (other than death) ? Can all this  be avoided using CO monitors + ventilation, or would this be mere conjecture ?  Appreciatively, Courtney     On Tuesday 25 October 2005 09:28, Paul Cotter wrote: > I make about half my living consulting on indoor air quality issues. > Traditionally, weÂ’ve relied on leaky structures to let us get away with > combustion byproducts. As our structures get tighter, we need to move to > sealed combustion appliances. A steel boat should be darn tight, but you > can actively ventilate it by opening hatches etc. Anyway, a sealed > combustion heater is a much better route for health reasons, especially > on a tight boat, but it is obvious that they are not requiredÂ….throngs > of people are not being found dead, poisoned on their boats. They are > just found alive, poisoned on their boats. > > As far as major outlets selling these appliancesÂ…Â…..its a free market, I > suppose. One doesnÂ’t need to walk through Home Depot/Walmart very long > to find poisons we put in our home. Twinkies comes to mind. As for > indoor air quality, we donÂ’t regulate it and so we can sell and buy > really stupid things for our homes. ItÂ’s a chronic problem. > > -----Original Message----- > From: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com [mailto:origamiboats@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of Courtney Thomas > Sent: 10/24/2005 6:44 PM > To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [origamiboats] Re: Wood burning stove > > On Monday 24 October 2005 16:06, cirejay wrote: > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Courtney Thomas <ccthomas@j...> > > > > wrote: > > > How about one of the 23K btu free-standing kerosene stoves being > > > > sold at > > > > > WalMart, Home Depot, etc.... ? > > > > > > kingsknight4life wrote: > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Gerald Niffenegger" > > > > <niffeneggerniff@a...> wrote: > > > >I am looking at backpack stoves as a heat source for a furnace. > > > > > >  Wonder if anyone else has considered these. > > > > There are two major - well, one major and one might as well be > > major - problems with heating a boat with and open, non-vented > > flame.  Yep, non-vented is the clue. > > > > The major-major problem could be the last one you will ever have: > > CO. > > > > The major-minor problem is one that will be obvious to anyone who > > has lived onboard during the winter, and that's humidity. Without > > open combustion putting out lots more, it is unreal how much > > humidity and thus condensation on cold surfaces there is, even on a > > well-insulated boat. So, even if you want to risk killing yourself, > > think of the inconvenience of all that humidity:-) > > > > eric S/V Nebaras > > Understood. Thank you. > > What I don't understand is, if they are that dangerous, how is it they > are > sold, not only in the U.S. but by such as WalMart and Home Depot, who've > got > lots to lose should they be sued. > > Of course, I understand that it won't do you any good if you are the > victim, > but I can't seem to complete this puzzle. > > Thanks again, > Courtney > > > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links > > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > SPONSORED LINKS > > British > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=British+columbia+canada&w1=British+ > columbia+canada&w2=Vancouver+island&w3=Yacht&w4=Victoria+bc&c=4&s=79&.si > g=9R67WCgMr5OvBLa-xHHyGA>  columbia canada > Vancouver > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Vancouver+island&w1=British+columbi > a+canada&w2=Vancouver+island&w3=Yacht&w4=Victoria+bc&c=4&s=79&.sig=yL5WO > tgPnpYAmd1P5N16cw>  island > Yacht > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Yacht&w1=British+columbia+canada&w2 > =Vancouver+island&w3=Yacht&w4=Victoria+bc&c=4&s=79&.sig=VvQDFUjkrcc6EJ4x > XP0vjg> > > Victoria > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Victoria+bc&w1=British+columbia+can > ada&w2=Vancouver+island&w3=Yacht&w4=Victoria+bc&c=4&s=79&.sig=QTHu1FWCcM > WsTCz7vGyGdg>  bc > > > >   _____ > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > *          Visit your group "origamiboats > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats> " on the web. > > *          To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >  origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe> > > *          Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>  Terms of Service. > >   _____ > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links > > >    To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com      YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS   Visit your group "origamiboats <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats> " on the web.     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9303|9266|2005-10-25 15:41:39|Paul Cotter|Re: Wood burning stove|Courtney,   There are bunches of resources/websites out there depending on one’s degree of interest.   A few googleables for general information:             American Lung Association             CMHC – Canadian Mortgage and Housing (they have done some interesting things for many years, and are arguably farther ahead in sound building techniques than those of us in the U.S.)             Environmental Protection Agency – Indoor Air Quality (some good info)             New York City department of health   As for your other questions:   Building materials have changed drastically in the last couple decades, and building techniques have not (although they are starting to). Today’s materials are generally less moisture tolerant and contain relatively high concentrations of chemicals implicated in health issues. These two issues together result in less durable materials, predisposition to biological contamination, and increased emissions of various organic compounds. (Those three sentences sum up a 20 hour course I do for builders and health care professionals, you owe me $500! hehe).   When it comes to CO, I am a proponent of source control. I don’t really care that much about what the fuel is, but it is important to have an outside air source, and to not exhaust it inside the cabin. A CO monitor is just a little sugar on the cookie! Much is made about how lethal CO is, but it is important to remember it is also toxic. Sublethal concentrations can have a variety of effects; metabolic perturbations via inhibition of several important enzymes, cell death, blood vessel changes (especially those near the brain), free radical formation in tissues (dangerous for cell membranes), among other things. As for a threshold to stay below, it is impossible to say. There is so much variability in responses to CO (as with anything else) that the best advice is to keep it as low as possible – again, limit the source. If you are sealing the combustion chamber out of the living space, you aren’t backdrafting, or having exhaust leak into the living space, you shouldn’t have a problem with CO. A monitor might provide some peace of mind and safety.   Cheers   Paul                 -----Original Message----- From: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com [mailto:origamiboats@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Courtney Thomas Sent: 10/25/2005 1:11 PM To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [origamiboats] Re: Wood burning stove   Paul,  Thank you for your reply.  I was unaware of the degree which you imply is the case regarding permitting  'poisonous' substances to be knowingly tolerated by 'the authorities' in the  commerce of the U.S.. I'm possibly like the majority who might think that  there was some reasonable balance in these matters between the regulators and  the producers.  Wonder if you'd mind commenting in detail or maybe better for you, pointing us  to an online source that would provide a realistic overview of the degree,  source and range of these problems; and, hopefully, suggested remedies.  More particularly, what is the consequence of the less than lethal, chronic CO  intake ? If anything, is there a known exposure regimen that indicates a  tipping point into irreversible consequence (other than death) ? Can all this  be avoided using CO monitors + ventilation, or would this be mere  conjecture ?  Appreciatively, Courtney     On Tuesday 25 October 2005 09:28, Paul Cotter wrote: > I make about half my living consulting on indoor air quality issues. > Traditionally, we’ve relied on leaky structures to let us get away with > combustion byproducts. As our structures get tighter, we need to move to > sealed combustion appliances. A steel boat should be darn tight, but you > can actively ventilate it by opening hatches etc. Anyway, a sealed > combustion heater is a much better route for health reasons, especially > on a tight boat, but it is obvious that they are not required….throngs > of people are not being found dead, poisoned on their boats. They are > just found alive, poisoned on their boats. > > As far as major outlets selling these appliances……..its a free market, I > suppose. One doesn’t need to walk through Home Depot/Walmart very long > to find poisons we put in our home. Twinkies comes to mind. As for > indoor air quality, we don’t regulate it and so we can sell and buy > really stupid things for our homes. It’s a chronic problem. > > -----Original Message----- > From: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com [mailto:origamiboats@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of Courtney Thomas > Sent: 10/24/2005 6:44 PM > To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [origamiboats] Re: Wood burning stove > > On Monday 24 October 2005 16:06, cirejay wrote: > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Courtney Thomas <ccthomas@j...> > > > > wrote: > > > How about one of the 23K btu free-standing kerosene stoves being > > > > sold at > > > > > WalMart, Home Depot, etc.... ? > > > > > > kingsknight4life wrote: > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Gerald Niffenegger" > > > > <niffeneggerniff@a...> wrote: > > > >I am looking at backpack stoves as a heat source for a furnace. > > > > > >  Wonder if anyone else has considered these. > > > > There are two major - well, one major and one might as well be > > major - problems with heating a boat with and open, non-vented > > flame.  Yep, non-vented is the clue. > > > > The major-major problem could be the last one you will ever have: > > CO. > > > > The major-minor problem is one that will be obvious to anyone who > > has lived onboard during the winter, and that's humidity. Without > > open combustion putting out lots more, it is unreal how much > > humidity and thus condensation on cold surfaces there is, even on a > > well-insulated boat. So, even if you want to risk killing yourself, > > think of the inconvenience of all that humidity:-) > > > > eric S/V Nebaras > > Understood. Thank you. > > What I don't understand is, if they are that dangerous, how is it they > are > sold, not only in the U.S. but by such as WalMart and Home Depot, who've > got > lots to lose should they be sued. > > Of course, I understand that it won't do you any good if you are the > victim, > but I can't seem to complete this puzzle. > > Thanks again, > Courtney > > > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links > > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > SPONSORED LINKS > > British > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=British+columbia+canada&w1=British+ > &k=British+columbia+canada&w1=British+ > columbia+canada&w2=Vancouver+island&w3=Yacht&w4=Victoria+bc&c=4&s=79&.si > g=9R67WCgMr5OvBLa-xHHyGA>  columbia canada > Vancouver > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Vancouver+island&w1=British+columbi > &k=Vancouver+island&w1=British+columbi > a+canada&w2=Vancouver+island&w3=Yacht&w4=Victoria+bc&c=4&s=79&.sig=yL5WO > tgPnpYAmd1P5N16cw>  island > Yacht > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Yacht&w1=British+columbia+canada&w2 > &k=Yacht&w1=British+columbia+canada&w2 > =Vancouver+island&w3=Yacht&w4=Victoria+bc&c=4&s=79&.sig=VvQDFUjkrcc6EJ4x > XP0vjg> > > Victoria > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Victoria+bc&w1=British+columbia+can > &k=Victoria+bc&w1=British+columbia+can > ada&w2=Vancouver+island&w3=Yacht&w4=Victoria+bc&c=4&s=79&.sig=QTHu1FWCcM > WsTCz7vGyGdg>  bc > > > >   _____ > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > *          Visit your group "origamiboats > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats> " on the web. > > *          To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >  origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe> > > *          Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>  Terms of Service. > >   _____ > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links > > >    To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com       _____    YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS    *          Visit your group "origamiboats <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats> " on the web.    *          To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:  origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <mailto:origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>     *          Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>  Terms of Service.      _____      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
9304|9266|2005-10-25 16:06:55|edward_stoneuk|Re: Wood burning stove|Paul,  That is very interesting information.  Am I correct in thinking that  many commonly used plastics, paints and adhesives are implicated in  giving off toxic vapour?  A little while ago a Flettner rotor was mentioned.  When I Googled  Flettner it came up with a company that manufactured whirling  ventilators that are used on butchers vans, mobile homes and the  like.  They also sold marine whirling ventilators for use on fishing  boat engine rooms.  Has anyone any experience on using a  savonious/flettner type whirling ventilator over a galley stove to get  rid of the steam, cooking smells and, one might suppose, CO?.  Regards, Ted|
9305|9266|2005-10-25 16:33:21|Paul Cotter|Re: Wood burning stove|Ted,   Yes, the adhesives, paints, and polymers lead the pack in giving off a variety of organic vapors. But these are exciting times. Many new products are being produced that are far less toxic. Some of the new vegetable oil-based paints are proving to be quite good, but IÂ’m not ready to paint my boat with them!! New adhesives for making plywood, particleboard and orientated strand board are much more friendly.   Sorry to be off topic.   Paul   -----Original Message----- From: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com [mailto:origamiboats@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of edward_stoneuk Sent: 10/25/2005 12:06 PM To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Wood burning stove   Paul,  That is very interesting information.  Am I correct in thinking that  many commonly used plastics, paints and adhesives are implicated in  giving off toxic vapour?  A little while ago a Flettner rotor was mentioned.  When I Googled  Flettner it came up with a company that manufactured whirling  ventilators that are used on butchers vans, mobile homes and the  like.  They also sold marine whirling ventilators for use on fishing  boat engine rooms.  Has anyone any experience on using a  savonious/flettner type whirling ventilator over a galley stove to get  rid of the steam, cooking smells and, one might suppose, CO?.  Regards, Ted      To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com       _____    YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS    *          Visit your group "origamiboats <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats> " on the web.    *          To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:  origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <mailto:origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>     *          Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>  Terms of Service.      _____      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]|
9306|9266|2005-10-25 18:17:22|Courtney Thomas|Re: Wood burning stove|Wow ! Thanks for the warning on the brain cells. I already need more than I  got :-)  Seriously though, thanks for your message. What brand are the truck stop  heaters ? I guess you can just plug 'em in the cigarette lighter, huh ? That  is, after finishing a smoke  :-)  Figured out any way to conveniently use 'em other than in a vehicle ?  How many BTUs ?  Gratefully, Courtney    On Tuesday 25 October 2005 12:35, Jerry Scovel wrote: > In the US congress goes to the highest bidder, usually the producers that > you mention. CO kills brain cells in chronic situations and is > irreversible. I would go with the most sensitive detector and the best > ventilation possible. As a fireman I choose the 12 volt heaters available > at truck stops for about $20 US, when properly fused they are safe and > require no ventilation. > > on 10/25/05 4:10 PM, Courtney Thomas at ccthomas@... wrote: > > Paul, > > Thank you for your reply. > > I was unaware of the degree which you imply is the case regarding > permitting 'poisonous' substances to be knowingly tolerated by 'the > authorities' in the commerce of the U.S.. I'm possibly like the majority > who might think that there was some reasonable balance in these matters > between the regulators and > the producers. > > Wonder if you'd mind commenting in detail or maybe better for you, pointing > us > to an online source that would provide a realistic overview of the degree, > source and range of these problems; and, hopefully, suggested remedies. > > More particularly, what is the consequence of the less than lethal, chronic > CO > intake ? If anything, is there a known exposure regimen that indicates a > tipping point into irreversible consequence (other than death) ? Can all > this > be avoided using CO monitors + ventilation, or would this be mere > conjecture ? > > Appreciatively, > Courtney > > On Tuesday 25 October 2005 09:28, Paul Cotter wrote: > > I make about half my living consulting on indoor air quality issues. > > Traditionally, weÂ’ve relied on leaky structures to let us get away with > > combustion byproducts. As our structures get tighter, we need to move to > > sealed combustion appliances. A steel boat should be darn tight, but you > > can actively ventilate it by opening hatches etc. Anyway, a sealed > > combustion heater is a much better route for health reasons, especially > > on a tight boat, but it is obvious that they are not requiredÂ….throngs > > of people are not being found dead, poisoned on their boats. They are > > just found alive, poisoned on their boats. > > > > As far as major outlets selling these appliancesÂ…Â…..its a free market, I > > suppose. One doesnÂ’t need to walk through Home Depot/Walmart very long > > to find poisons we put in our home. Twinkies comes to mind. As for > > indoor air quality, we donÂ’t regulate it and so we can sell and buy > > really stupid things for our homes. ItÂ’s a chronic problem. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com [mailto:origamiboats@yahoogroups.com] > > On Behalf Of Courtney Thomas > > Sent: 10/24/2005 6:44 PM > > To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [origamiboats] Re: Wood burning stove > > > > On Monday 24 October 2005 16:06, cirejay wrote: > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Courtney Thomas <ccthomas@j...> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > How about one of the 23K btu free-standing kerosene stoves being > > > > > > sold at > > > > > > > WalMart, Home Depot, etc.... ? > > > > > > > > kingsknight4life wrote: > > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Gerald Niffenegger" > > > > > <niffeneggerniff@a...> wrote: > > > > >I am looking at backpack stoves as a heat source for a furnace. > > > > > > > >  Wonder if anyone else has considered these. > > > > > > There are two major - well, one major and one might as well be > > > major - problems with heating a boat with and open, non-vented > > > flame.  Yep, non-vented is the clue. > > > > > > The major-major problem could be the last one you will ever have: > > > CO. > > > > > > The major-minor problem is one that will be obvious to anyone who > > > has lived onboard during the winter, and that's humidity. Without > > > open combustion putting out lots more, it is unreal how much > > > humidity and thus condensation on cold surfaces there is, even on a > > > well-insulated boat. So, even if you want to risk killing yourself, > > > think of the inconvenience of all that humidity:-) > > > > > > eric S/V Nebaras > > > > Understood. Thank you. > > > > What I don't understand is, if they are that dangerous, how is it they > > are > > sold, not only in the U.S. but by such as WalMart and Home Depot, who've > > got > > lots to lose should they be sued. > > > > Of course, I understand that it won't do you any good if you are the > > victim, > > but I can't seem to complete this puzzle. > > > > Thanks again, > > Courtney > > > > > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > > > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > SPONSORED LINKS > > > > British > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=British+columbia+canada&w1=British+ > > columbia+canada&w2=Vancouver+island&w3=Yacht&w4=Victoria+bc&c=4&s=79&.si > > g=9R67WCgMr5OvBLa-xHHyGA>  columbia canada > > Vancouver > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Vancouver+island&w1=British+columbi > > a+canada&w2=Vancouver+island&w3=Yacht&w4=Victoria+bc&c=4&s=79&.sig=yL5WO > > tgPnpYAmd1P5N16cw>  island > > Yacht > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Yacht&w1=British+columbia+canada&w2 > > =Vancouver+island&w3=Yacht&w4=Victoria+bc&c=4&s=79&.sig=VvQDFUjkrcc6EJ4x > > XP0vjg> > > > > Victoria > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Victoria+bc&w1=British+columbia+can > > ada&w2=Vancouver+island&w3=Yacht&w4=Victoria+bc&c=4&s=79&.sig=QTHu1FWCcM > > WsTCz7vGyGdg>  bc > > > > > > > >   _____ > > > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > > > *          Visit your group "origamiboats > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats> " on the web. > > > > *          To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > >  origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe> > > > > *          Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! > > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>  Terms of Service. > > > >   _____ > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links > > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > >  Visit your group "origamiboats > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats> " on the web. > >  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >  origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe> > >  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> . > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links > > > |
9307|9266|2005-10-25 18:23:48|Michael Casling|Re: Wood burning stove|Two guys died in Vancouver BC a few years ago while running a diesel heater. We had a guy pass out from exhaust fumes in his fizz boat. The boat ran aground and the engine stalled. The heater was on and when it finally went cold the cool air revived him. Very scary. Some kerosene heaters may only work as long as the boat is not moving around otherwise they flair up a lot. Good luck with this. We all need a heater, but the $1500- price tag for a diesel unit is slowing me down. Maybe Brent can mention again what he is using. I am using the clay flower pot over the burner system.  Michael    ----- Original Message -----    From: Courtney Thomas    To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com    Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2005 2:10 PM   Subject: Re: [origamiboats] Re: Wood burning stove     Paul,    Thank you for your reply.    I was unaware of the degree which you imply is the case regarding permitting    'poisonous' substances to be knowingly tolerated by 'the authorities' in the    commerce of the U.S.. I'm possibly like the majority who might think that    there was some reasonable balance in these matters between the regulators and    the producers.    Wonder if you'd mind commenting in detail or maybe better for you, pointing us    to an online source that would provide a realistic overview of the degree,    source and range of these problems; and, hopefully, suggested remedies.    More particularly, what is the consequence of the less than lethal, chronic CO    intake ? If anything, is there a known exposure regimen that indicates a    tipping point into irreversible consequence (other than death) ? Can all this    be avoided using CO monitors + ventilation, or would this be mere    conjecture ?    Appreciatively,   Courtney      On Tuesday 25 October 2005 09:28, Paul Cotter wrote:   > I make about half my living consulting on indoor air quality issues.   > Traditionally, we've relied on leaky structures to let us get away with   > combustion byproducts. As our structures get tighter, we need to move to   > sealed combustion appliances. A steel boat should be darn tight, but you   > can actively ventilate it by opening hatches etc. Anyway, a sealed   > combustion heater is a much better route for health reasons, especially   > on a tight boat, but it is obvious that they are not required..throngs   > of people are not being found dead, poisoned on their boats. They are   > just found alive, poisoned on their boats.   >   > As far as major outlets selling these appliances....its a free market, I   > suppose. One doesn't need to walk through Home Depot/Walmart very long   > to find poisons we put in our home. Twinkies comes to mind. As for   > indoor air quality, we don't regulate it and so we can sell and buy   > really stupid things for our homes. It's a chronic problem.   >   > -----Original Message-----   > From: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com [mailto:origamiboats@yahoogroups.com]   > On Behalf Of Courtney Thomas   > Sent: 10/24/2005 6:44 PM   > To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com   > Subject: Re: [origamiboats] Re: Wood burning stove   >   > On Monday 24 October 2005 16:06, cirejay wrote:   > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Courtney Thomas <ccthomas@j...>   > >   > > wrote:   > > > How about one of the 23K btu free-standing kerosene stoves being   > >   > > sold at   > >   > > > WalMart, Home Depot, etc.... ?   > > >   > > > kingsknight4life wrote:   > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Gerald Niffenegger"   > > > > <niffeneggerniff@a...> wrote:   > > > >I am looking at backpack stoves as a heat source for a furnace.   > > >   > > >  Wonder if anyone else has considered these.   > >   > > There are two major - well, one major and one might as well be   > > major - problems with heating a boat with and open, non-vented   > > flame.  Yep, non-vented is the clue.   > >   > > The major-major problem could be the last one you will ever have:   > > CO.   > >   > > The major-minor problem is one that will be obvious to anyone who   > > has lived onboard during the winter, and that's humidity. Without   > > open combustion putting out lots more, it is unreal how much   > > humidity and thus condensation on cold surfaces there is, even on a   > > well-insulated boat. So, even if you want to risk killing yourself,   > > think of the inconvenience of all that humidity:-)   > >   > > eric S/V Nebaras   >   > Understood. Thank you.   >   > What I don't understand is, if they are that dangerous, how is it they   > are   > sold, not only in the U.S. but by such as WalMart and Home Depot, who've   > got   > lots to lose should they be sued.   >   > Of course, I understand that it won't do you any good if you are the   > victim,   > but I can't seem to complete this puzzle.   >   > Thanks again,   > Courtney   >   > > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com   > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:   > > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links   >   > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com   > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:   > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com   >   >   >   > SPONSORED LINKS   >   > British   > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=British+columbia+canada&w1=British+   > columbia+canada&w2=Vancouver+island&w3=Yacht&w4=Victoria+bc&c=4&s=79&.si   > g=9R67WCgMr5OvBLa-xHHyGA>  columbia canada   > Vancouver   > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Vancouver+island&w1=British+columbi   > a+canada&w2=Vancouver+island&w3=Yacht&w4=Victoria+bc&c=4&s=79&.sig=yL5WO   > tgPnpYAmd1P5N16cw>  island   > Yacht   > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Yacht&w1=British+columbia+canada&w2   > =Vancouver+island&w3=Yacht&w4=Victoria+bc&c=4&s=79&.sig=VvQDFUjkrcc6EJ4x   > XP0vjg>   >   > Victoria   > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Victoria+bc&w1=British+columbia+can   > ada&w2=Vancouver+island&w3=Yacht&w4=Victoria+bc&c=4&s=79&.sig=QTHu1FWCcM   > WsTCz7vGyGdg>  bc   >   >   >   >   _____   >   > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS   >   > *          Visit your group "origamiboats   > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats> " on the web.   >   > *          To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:   >  origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com   > <mailto:origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>   >   > *          Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!   > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>  Terms of Service.   >   >   _____   >   >   >   > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]   >   >   >   >   > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com   > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:   > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links   >   >   >      To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com   To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com     ------------------------------------------------------------------------------   YAHOO! 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9308|9266|2005-10-25 18:26:36|Courtney Thomas|Re: Wood burning stove|Thanks Paul. The check's in the mail  :-)  Being an ignoramous, this is all quite enlightening. I am ashamed to admit  that I wasn't aware of the CO toxicity. I just thoughtlessly assumed that if  it didn't kill yuh, you were OK.  I have a place in Canada, and am not surprised at their being superior in this  matter. They more closely simulate a democracy than the U.S.. But who doesn't  now.  Cancelling my kerosene heater order....  :-)  Courtney     On Tuesday 25 October 2005 12:44, Paul Cotter wrote: > Courtney, > > There are bunches of resources/websites out there depending on one’s > degree of interest. > > A few googleables for general information: >             American Lung Association >             CMHC – Canadian Mortgage and Housing (they have done some > interesting things for many years, and are arguably farther ahead in > sound building techniques than those of us in the U.S.) >             Environmental Protection Agency – Indoor Air Quality (some > good info) >             New York City department of health > > As for your other questions: > > Building materials have changed drastically in the last couple decades, > and building techniques have not (although they are starting to). > Today’s materials are generally less moisture tolerant and contain > relatively high concentrations of chemicals implicated in health issues. > These two issues together result in less durable materials, > predisposition to biological contamination, and increased emissions of > various organic compounds. (Those three sentences sum up a 20 hour > course I do for builders and health care professionals, you owe me $500! > hehe). > > When it comes to CO, I am a proponent of source control. I don’t really > care that much about what the fuel is, but it is important to have an > outside air source, and to not exhaust it inside the cabin. A CO monitor > is just a little sugar on the cookie! Much is made about how lethal CO > is, but it is important to remember it is also toxic. Sublethal > concentrations can have a variety of effects; metabolic perturbations > via inhibition of several important enzymes, cell death, blood vessel > changes (especially those near the brain), free radical formation in > tissues (dangerous for cell membranes), among other things. As for a > threshold to stay below, it is impossible to say. There is so much > variability in responses to CO (as with anything else) that the best > advice is to keep it as low as possible – again, limit the source. If > you are sealing the combustion chamber out of the living space, you > aren’t backdrafting, or having exhaust leak into the living space, you > shouldn’t have a problem with CO. A monitor might provide some peace of > mind and safety. > > Cheers > > Paul > > > -----Original Message----- > From: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com [mailto:origamiboats@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of Courtney Thomas > Sent: 10/25/2005 1:11 PM > To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [origamiboats] Re: Wood burning stove > > Paul, > > Thank you for your reply. > > I was unaware of the degree which you imply is the case regarding > permitting > 'poisonous' substances to be knowingly tolerated by 'the authorities' in > the > commerce of the U.S.. I'm possibly like the majority who might think > that > there was some reasonable balance in these matters between the > regulators and > the producers. > > Wonder if you'd mind commenting in detail or maybe better for you, > pointing us > to an online source that would provide a realistic overview of the > degree, > source and range of these problems; and, hopefully, suggested remedies. > > More particularly, what is the consequence of the less than lethal, > chronic CO > intake ? If anything, is there a known exposure regimen that indicates a > > tipping point into irreversible consequence (other than death) ? Can all > this > be avoided using CO monitors + ventilation, or would this be mere > conjecture ? > > Appreciatively, > Courtney > > On Tuesday 25 October 2005 09:28, Paul Cotter wrote: > > I make about half my living consulting on indoor air quality issues. > > Traditionally, we’ve relied on leaky structures to let us get away > > with > > > combustion byproducts. As our structures get tighter, we need to move > > to > > > sealed combustion appliances. A steel boat should be darn tight, but > > you > > > can actively ventilate it by opening hatches etc. Anyway, a sealed > > combustion heater is a much better route for health reasons, > > especially > > > on a tight boat, but it is obvious that they are not required….throngs > > of people are not being found dead, poisoned on their boats. They are > > just found alive, poisoned on their boats. > > > > As far as major outlets selling these appliances……..its a free market, > > I > > > suppose. One doesn’t need to walk through Home Depot/Walmart very long > > to find poisons we put in our home. Twinkies comes to mind. As for > > indoor air quality, we don’t regulate it and so we can sell and buy > > really stupid things for our homes. It’s a chronic problem. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:origamiboats@yahoogroups.com] > > > On Behalf Of Courtney Thomas > > Sent: 10/24/2005 6:44 PM > > To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [origamiboats] Re: Wood burning stove > > > > On Monday 24 October 2005 16:06, cirejay wrote: > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Courtney Thomas <ccthomas@j...> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > How about one of the 23K btu free-standing kerosene stoves being > > > > > > sold at > > > > > > > WalMart, Home Depot, etc.... ? > > > > > > > > kingsknight4life wrote: > > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Gerald Niffenegger" > > > > > <niffeneggerniff@a...> wrote: > > > > >I am looking at backpack stoves as a heat source for a furnace. > > > > > > > >  Wonder if anyone else has considered these. > > > > > > There are two major - well, one major and one might as well be > > > major - problems with heating a boat with and open, non-vented > > > flame.  Yep, non-vented is the clue. > > > > > > The major-major problem could be the last one you will ever have: > > > CO. > > > > > > The major-minor problem is one that will be obvious to anyone who > > > has lived onboard during the winter, and that's humidity. Without > > > open combustion putting out lots more, it is unreal how much > > > humidity and thus condensation on cold surfaces there is, even on a > > > well-insulated boat. So, even if you want to risk killing yourself, > > > think of the inconvenience of all that humidity:-) > > > > > > eric S/V Nebaras > > > > Understood. Thank you. > > > > What I don't understand is, if they are that dangerous, how is it they > > are > > sold, not only in the U.S. but by such as WalMart and Home Depot, > > who've > > > got > > lots to lose should they be sued. > > > > Of course, I understand that it won't do you any good if you are the > > victim, > > but I can't seem to complete this puzzle. > > > > Thanks again, > > Courtney > > > > > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > > > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > SPONSORED LINKS > > > > British > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=British+columbia+canada&w1=British+ > > > &k=British+columbia+canada&w1=British+ > > columbia+canada&w2=Vancouver+island&w3=Yacht&w4=Victoria+bc&c=4&s=79&.si > > > g=9R67WCgMr5OvBLa-xHHyGA>  columbia canada > > Vancouver > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Vancouver+island&w1=British+columbi > > > &k=Vancouver+island&w1=British+columbi > > a+canada&w2=Vancouver+island&w3=Yacht&w4=Victoria+bc&c=4&s=79&.sig=yL5WO > > > tgPnpYAmd1P5N16cw>  island > > Yacht > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Yacht&w1=British+columbia+canada&w2 > > > &k=Yacht&w1=British+columbia+canada&w2 > > =Vancouver+island&w3=Yacht&w4=Victoria+bc&c=4&s=79&.sig=VvQDFUjkrcc6EJ4x > > > XP0vjg> > > > > Victoria > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Victoria+bc&w1=British+columbia+can > > > &k=Victoria+bc&w1=British+columbia+can > > ada&w2=Vancouver+island&w3=Yacht&w4=Victoria+bc&c=4&s=79&.sig=QTHu1FWCcM > > > WsTCz7vGyGdg>  bc > > > > > > > >   _____ > > > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > > > *          Visit your group "origamiboats > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats> " on the web. > > > > *          To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > >  origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe> > > > > *          Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! > > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>  Terms of Service. > > > >   _____ > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links > > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > >   _____ > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > *          Visit your group "origamiboats > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats> " on the web. > > *          To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >  origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe> > > *          Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>  Terms of Service. > >   _____ > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links > > > |
9309|9266|2005-10-25 18:35:04|Courtney Thomas|Re: Wood burning stove|Paul,  What DO you paint your boat with  :-)  Courtney    On Tuesday 25 October 2005 13:35, Paul Cotter wrote: > Ted, > > Yes, the adhesives, paints, and polymers lead the pack in giving off a > variety of organic vapors. But these are exciting times. Many new > products are being produced that are far less toxic. Some of the new > vegetable oil-based paints are proving to be quite good, but IÂ’m not > ready to paint my boat with them!! New adhesives for making plywood, > particleboard and orientated strand board are much more friendly. > > Sorry to be off topic. > > Paul > > -----Original Message----- > From: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com [mailto:origamiboats@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of edward_stoneuk > Sent: 10/25/2005 12:06 PM > To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Wood burning stove > > Paul, > > That is very interesting information.  Am I correct in thinking that > many commonly used plastics, paints and adhesives are implicated in > giving off toxic vapour? > > A little while ago a Flettner rotor was mentioned.  When I Googled > Flettner it came up with a company that manufactured whirling > ventilators that are used on butchers vans, mobile homes and the > like.  They also sold marine whirling ventilators for use on fishing > boat engine rooms.  Has anyone any experience on using a > savonious/flettner type whirling ventilator over a galley stove to get > rid of the steam, cooking smells and, one might suppose, CO?. > > Regards, > Ted > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > >   _____ > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > *          Visit your group "origamiboats > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats> " on the web. > > *          To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >  origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe> > > *          Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>  Terms of Service. > >   _____ > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links > > > |
9310|9266|2005-10-25 18:43:50|brentswain38|Re: Wood burning stove|I recently lead my woodstove air intake from outside, a huge  improvemment . It consumes only outside air and sends it back  outside, being completely isolated from the inside of the cabin.  Putting a couple of 4 inch vents with cowls on top, just behind the  forehatch was also a huge improvement . I put a 2 inch 75milliamp  computer fan in a 2 inch pipe leading outside ,behind the engine and  leave it on overnight if I have used the motor . The current draw is  negligible, but it has eliminated the diesel smell from the cabin  after motoring.Since I began taking ventilation seriously , my lungs  are in much better shape. Brent  --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Courtney Thomas <ccthomas@j...>  wrote:  > > Thanks Paul. The check's in the mail  :-) >  > Being an ignoramous, this is all quite enlightening. I am ashamed   to admit   > that I wasn't aware of the CO toxicity. I just thoughtlessly   assumed that if   > it didn't kill yuh, you were OK. >  > I have a place in Canada, and am not surprised at their being   superior in this   > matter. They more closely simulate a democracy than the U.S.. But   who doesn't   > now. >  > Cancelling my kerosene heater order....  :-) >  > Courtney >  >  >  > On Tuesday 25 October 2005 12:44, Paul Cotter wrote: > > Courtney, > > > > There are bunches of resources/websites out there depending on   one's  > > degree of interest. > > > > A few googleables for general information: > >             American Lung Association > >             CMHC – Canadian Mortgage and Housing (they have done   some  > > interesting things for many years, and are arguably farther   ahead in  > > sound building techniques than those of us in the U.S.) > >             Environmental Protection Agency – Indoor Air Quality   (some  > > good info) > >             New York City department of health > > > > As for your other questions: > > > > Building materials have changed drastically in the last couple   decades,  > > and building techniques have not (although they are starting to). > > Today's materials are generally less moisture tolerant and   contain  > > relatively high concentrations of chemicals implicated in health   issues.  > > These two issues together result in less durable materials, > > predisposition to biological contamination, and increased   emissions of  > > various organic compounds. (Those three sentences sum up a 20   hour  > > course I do for builders and health care professionals, you owe   me $500!  > > hehe). > > > > When it comes to CO, I am a proponent of source control. I don't   really  > > care that much about what the fuel is, but it is important to   have an  > > outside air source, and to not exhaust it inside the cabin. A CO   monitor  > > is just a little sugar on the cookie! Much is made about how   lethal CO  > > is, but it is important to remember it is also toxic. Sublethal > > concentrations can have a variety of effects; metabolic   perturbations  > > via inhibition of several important enzymes, cell death, blood   vessel  > > changes (especially those near the brain), free radical   formation in  > > tissues (dangerous for cell membranes), among other things. As   for a  > > threshold to stay below, it is impossible to say. There is so   much  > > variability in responses to CO (as with anything else) that the   best  > > advice is to keep it as low as possible – again, limit the   source. If  > > you are sealing the combustion chamber out of the living space,   you  > > aren't backdrafting, or having exhaust leak into the living   space, you  > > shouldn't have a problem with CO. A monitor might provide some   peace of  > > mind and safety. > > > > Cheers > > > > Paul > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com   [mailto:origamiboats@yahoogroups.com]  > > On Behalf Of Courtney Thomas > > Sent: 10/25/2005 1:11 PM > > To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [origamiboats] Re: Wood burning stove > > > > Paul, > > > > Thank you for your reply. > > > > I was unaware of the degree which you imply is the case regarding > > permitting > > 'poisonous' substances to be knowingly tolerated by 'the   authorities' in  > > the > > commerce of the U.S.. I'm possibly like the majority who might   think  > > that > > there was some reasonable balance in these matters between the > > regulators and > > the producers. > > > > Wonder if you'd mind commenting in detail or maybe better for   you,  > > pointing us > > to an online source that would provide a realistic overview of   the  > > degree, > > source and range of these problems; and, hopefully, suggested   remedies.  > > > > More particularly, what is the consequence of the less than   lethal,  > > chronic CO > > intake ? If anything, is there a known exposure regimen that   indicates a  > > > > tipping point into irreversible consequence (other than death) ?   Can all  > > this > > be avoided using CO monitors + ventilation, or would this be mere > > conjecture ? > > > > Appreciatively, > > Courtney > > > > On Tuesday 25 October 2005 09:28, Paul Cotter wrote: > > > I make about half my living consulting on indoor air quality   issues.  > > > Traditionally, we've relied on leaky structures to let us get   away  > > > > with > > > > > combustion byproducts. As our structures get tighter, we need   to move  > > > > to > > > > > sealed combustion appliances. A steel boat should be darn   tight, but  > > > > you > > > > > can actively ventilate it by opening hatches etc. Anyway, a   sealed  > > > combustion heater is a much better route for health reasons, > > > > especially > > > > > on a tight boat, but it is obvious that they are not   required….throngs  > > > of people are not being found dead, poisoned on their boats.   They are  > > > just found alive, poisoned on their boats. > > > > > > As far as major outlets selling these appliances……..its a free   market,  > > > > I > > > > > suppose. One doesn't need to walk through Home Depot/Walmart   very long  > > > to find poisons we put in our home. Twinkies comes to mind. As   for  > > > indoor air quality, we don't regulate it and so we can sell   and buy  > > > really stupid things for our homes. It's a chronic problem. > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > > > [mailto:origamiboats@yahoogroups.com] > > > > > On Behalf Of Courtney Thomas > > > Sent: 10/24/2005 6:44 PM > > > To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: Re: [origamiboats] Re: Wood burning stove > > > > > > On Monday 24 October 2005 16:06, cirejay wrote: > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Courtney Thomas   <ccthomas@j...>  > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > How about one of the 23K btu free-standing kerosene stoves   being  > > > > > > > > sold at > > > > > > > > > WalMart, Home Depot, etc.... ? > > > > > > > > > > kingsknight4life wrote: > > > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Gerald Niffenegger" > > > > > > <niffeneggerniff@a...> wrote: > > > > > >I am looking at backpack stoves as a heat source for a   furnace.  > > > > > > > > > >  Wonder if anyone else has considered these. > > > > > > > > There are two major - well, one major and one might as well   be  > > > > major - problems with heating a boat with and open, non-  vented  > > > > flame.  Yep, non-vented is the clue. > > > > > > > > The major-major problem could be the last one you will ever   have:  > > > > CO. > > > > > > > > The major-minor problem is one that will be obvious to   anyone who  > > > > has lived onboard during the winter, and that's humidity.   Without  > > > > open combustion putting out lots more, it is unreal how much > > > > humidity and thus condensation on cold surfaces there is,   even on a  > > > > well-insulated boat. So, even if you want to risk killing   yourself,  > > > > think of the inconvenience of all that humidity:-) > > > > > > > > eric S/V Nebaras > > > > > > Understood. Thank you. > > > > > > What I don't understand is, if they are that dangerous, how is   it they  > > > are > > > sold, not only in the U.S. but by such as WalMart and Home   Depot,  > > > > who've > > > > > got > > > lots to lose should they be sued. > > > > > > Of course, I understand that it won't do you any good if you   are the  > > > victim, > > > but I can't seem to complete this puzzle. > > > > > > Thanks again, > > > Courtney > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > > > > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > > > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > SPONSORED LINKS > > > > > > British > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms > > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?  t=ms&k=British+columbia+canada&w1=British+  > > > > > &k=British+columbia+canada&w1=British+ > > > >   columbia+canada&w2=Vancouver+island&w3=Yacht&w4=Victoria+bc&c=4&s=79& .si  > > > > > g=9R67WCgMr5OvBLa-xHHyGA>  columbia canada > > > Vancouver > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms > > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?  t=ms&k=Vancouver+island&w1=British+columbi  > > > > > &k=Vancouver+island&w1=British+columbi > > > >   a+canada&w2=Vancouver+island&w3=Yacht&w4=Victoria+bc&c=4&s=79&.sig=yL 5WO  > > > > > tgPnpYAmd1P5N16cw>  island > > > Yacht > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms > > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?  t=ms&k=Yacht&w1=British+columbia+canada&w2  > > > > > &k=Yacht&w1=British+columbia+canada&w2 > > > >   =Vancouver+island&w3=Yacht&w4=Victoria+bc&c=4&s=79&.sig=VvQDFUjkrcc6E J4x  > > > > > XP0vjg> > > > > > > Victoria > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms > > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?  t=ms&k=Victoria+bc&w1=British+columbia+can  > > > > > &k=Victoria+bc&w1=British+columbia+can > > > >   ada&w2=Vancouver+island&w3=Yacht&w4=Victoria+bc&c=4&s=79&.sig=QTHu1FW CcM  > > > > > WsTCz7vGyGdg>  bc > > > > > > > > > > > >   _____ > > > > > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > > > > > *          Visit your group "origamiboats > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats> " on the web. > > > > > > *          To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > >  origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?  subject=Unsubscribe>  > > > > > > *          Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! > > > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>  Terms of Service. > > > > > >   _____ > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > > > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > >   _____ > > > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > > > *          Visit your group "origamiboats > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats> " on the web. > > > > *          To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > >  origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?  subject=Unsubscribe>  > > > > *          Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! > > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>  Terms of Service. > > > >   _____ > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > |
9311|9266|2005-10-25 18:45:46|Jerry Scovel|Re: Wood burning stove|The only word on them is "China" they have red (+) and black(-) clips similar to those on battery chargers. I use mine in my home office (avoiding useing power from the grid). I bought 11 of them at the swap meet for $8 each.   on 10/25/05 7:42 PM, Courtney Thomas at ccthomas@... wrote:  Wow ! Thanks for the warning on the brain cells. I already need more than I got :-)  Seriously though, thanks for your message. What brand are the truck stop heaters ? I guess you can just plug 'em in the cigarette lighter, huh ? That is, after finishing a smoke  :-)  Figured out any way to conveniently use 'em other than in a vehicle ?  How many BTUs ?  Gratefully, Courtney    On Tuesday 25 October 2005 12:35, Jerry Scovel wrote: > In the US congress goes to the highest bidder, usually the producers that > you mention. CO kills brain cells in chronic situations and is > irreversible. I would go with the most sensitive detector and the best > ventilation possible. As a fireman I choose the 12 volt heaters available > at truck stops for about $20 US, when properly fused they are safe and > require no ventilation. > > on 10/25/05 4:10 PM, Courtney Thomas at ccthomas@... wrote: > > Paul, > > Thank you for your reply. > > I was unaware of the degree which you imply is the case regarding > permitting 'poisonous' substances to be knowingly tolerated by 'the > authorities' in the commerce of the U.S.. I'm possibly like the majority > who might think that there was some reasonable balance in these matters > between the regulators and > the producers. > > Wonder if you'd mind commenting in detail or maybe better for you, pointing > us > to an online source that would provide a realistic overview of the degree, > source and range of these problems; and, hopefully, suggested remedies. > > More particularly, what is the consequence of the less than lethal, chronic > CO > intake ? If anything, is there a known exposure regimen that indicates a > tipping point into irreversible consequence (other than death) ? Can all > this > be avoided using CO monitors + ventilation, or would this be mere > conjecture ? > > Appreciatively, > Courtney > > On Tuesday 25 October 2005 09:28, Paul Cotter wrote: > > I make about half my living consulting on indoor air quality issues. > > Traditionally, weÂ’ve relied on leaky structures to let us get away with > > combustion byproducts. As our structures get tighter, we need to move to > > sealed combustion appliances. A steel boat should be darn tight, but you > > can actively ventilate it by opening hatches etc. Anyway, a sealed > > combustion heater is a much better route for health reasons, especially > > on a tight boat, but it is obvious that they are not requiredÂ….throngs > > of people are not being found dead, poisoned on their boats. They are > > just found alive, poisoned on their boats. > > > > As far as major outlets selling these appliancesÂ…Â…..its a free market, I > > suppose. One doesnÂ’t need to walk through Home Depot/Walmart very long > > to find poisons we put in our home. Twinkies comes to mind. As for > > indoor air quality, we donÂ’t regulate it and so we can sell and buy > > really stupid things for our homes. ItÂ’s a chronic problem. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com [mailto:origamiboats@yahoogroups.com] > > On Behalf Of Courtney Thomas > > Sent: 10/24/2005 6:44 PM > > To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [origamiboats] Re: Wood burning stove > > > > On Monday 24 October 2005 16:06, cirejay wrote: > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Courtney Thomas <ccthomas@j...> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > How about one of the 23K btu free-standing kerosene stoves being > > > > > > sold at > > > > > > > WalMart, Home Depot, etc.... ? > > > > > > > > kingsknight4life wrote: > > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Gerald Niffenegger" > > > > > <niffeneggerniff@a...> wrote: > > > > >I am looking at backpack stoves as a heat source for a furnace. > > > > > > > >  Wonder if anyone else has considered these. > > > > > > There are two major - well, one major and one might as well be > > > major - problems with heating a boat with and open, non-vented > > > flame.  Yep, non-vented is the clue. > > > > > > The major-major problem could be the last one you will ever have: > > > CO. > > > > > > The major-minor problem is one that will be obvious to anyone who > > > has lived onboard during the winter, and that's humidity. Without > > > open combustion putting out lots more, it is unreal how much > > > humidity and thus condensation on cold surfaces there is, even on a > > > well-insulated boat. So, even if you want to risk killing yourself, > > > think of the inconvenience of all that humidity:-) > > > > > > eric S/V Nebaras > > > > Understood. Thank you. > > > > What I don't understand is, if they are that dangerous, how is it they > > are > > sold, not only in the U.S. but by such as WalMart and Home Depot, who've > > got > > lots to lose should they be sued. > > > > Of course, I understand that it won't do you any good if you are the > > victim, > > but I can't seem to complete this puzzle. > > > > Thanks again, > > Courtney > > > > > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > > > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > SPONSORED LINKS > > > > British > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=British+columbia+canada&w1=British+ > > columbia+canada&w2=Vancouver+island&w3=Yacht&w4=Victoria+bc&c=4&s=79&.si > > g=9R67WCgMr5OvBLa-xHHyGA>  columbia canada > > Vancouver > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Vancouver+island&w1=British+columbi > > a+canada&w2=Vancouver+island&w3=Yacht&w4=Victoria+bc&c=4&s=79&.sig=yL5WO > > tgPnpYAmd1P5N16cw>  island > > Yacht > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Yacht&w1=British+columbia+canada&w2 > > =Vancouver+island&w3=Yacht&w4=Victoria+bc&c=4&s=79&.sig=VvQDFUjkrcc6EJ4x > > XP0vjg> > > > > Victoria > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Victoria+bc&w1=British+columbia+can > > ada&w2=Vancouver+island&w3=Yacht&w4=Victoria+bc&c=4&s=79&.sig=QTHu1FWCcM > > WsTCz7vGyGdg>  bc > > > > > > > >   _____ > > > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > > > *          Visit your group "origamiboats > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats> " on the web. > > > > *          To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > >  origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe> > > > > *          Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! > > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>  Terms of Service. > > > >   _____ > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links > > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > YAHOO! 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9312|9266|2005-10-25 18:47:14|brentswain38|Re: Wood burning stove|I use a 1/8th inch stainless version of the Ulefos or Waterford  box  stove 18 inches long by 11 inches wide by 12 inches high with a  sliding baffle , a 4 inch chimney , and a 2 inch air intake  connected to outside.It burns up to 14 hours on a good load of wood  without refilling. Brent  --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Michael Casling <casling@s...>  wrote:  > > Two guys died in Vancouver BC a few years ago while running a   diesel heater.  > We had a guy pass out from exhaust fumes in his fizz boat. The   boat ran aground and the engine stalled. The heater was on and when  it finally went cold the cool air revived him. Very scary.  > Some kerosene heaters may only work as long as the boat is not   moving around otherwise they flair up a lot.  > Good luck with this. We all need a heater, but the $1500- price   tag for a diesel unit is slowing me down.  > Maybe Brent can mention again what he is using. I am using the   clay flower pot over the burner system.  >  > Michael >   ----- Original Message -----  >   From: Courtney Thomas  >   To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com  >   Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2005 2:10 PM >   Subject: Re: [origamiboats] Re: Wood burning stove >  >  >   Paul, >  >   Thank you for your reply. >  >   I was unaware of the degree which you imply is the case   regarding permitting   >   'poisonous' substances to be knowingly tolerated by 'the   authorities' in the   >   commerce of the U.S.. I'm possibly like the majority who might   think that   >   there was some reasonable balance in these matters between the   regulators and   >   the producers. >  >   Wonder if you'd mind commenting in detail or maybe better for   you, pointing us   >   to an online source that would provide a realistic overview of   the degree,   >   source and range of these problems; and, hopefully, suggested   remedies.  >  >   More particularly, what is the consequence of the less than   lethal, chronic CO   >   intake ? If anything, is there a known exposure regimen that   indicates a   >   tipping point into irreversible consequence (other than death) ?   Can all this   >   be avoided using CO monitors + ventilation, or would this be   mere   >   conjecture ? >  >   Appreciatively, >   Courtney  >  >  >   On Tuesday 25 October 2005 09:28, Paul Cotter wrote: >   > I make about half my living consulting on indoor air quality   issues.  >   > Traditionally, we've relied on leaky structures to let us get   away with  >   > combustion byproducts. As our structures get tighter, we need   to move to  >   > sealed combustion appliances. A steel boat should be darn   tight, but you  >   > can actively ventilate it by opening hatches etc. Anyway, a   sealed  >   > combustion heater is a much better route for health reasons,   especially  >   > on a tight boat, but it is obvious that they are not   required..throngs  >   > of people are not being found dead, poisoned on their boats.   They are  >   > just found alive, poisoned on their boats. >   > >   > As far as major outlets selling these appliances....its a free   market, I  >   > suppose. One doesn't need to walk through Home Depot/Walmart   very long  >   > to find poisons we put in our home. Twinkies comes to mind. As   for  >   > indoor air quality, we don't regulate it and so we can sell   and buy  >   > really stupid things for our homes. It's a chronic problem. >   > >   > -----Original Message----- >   > From: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com   [mailto:origamiboats@yahoogroups.com]  >   > On Behalf Of Courtney Thomas >   > Sent: 10/24/2005 6:44 PM >   > To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com >   > Subject: Re: [origamiboats] Re: Wood burning stove >   > >   > On Monday 24 October 2005 16:06, cirejay wrote: >   > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Courtney Thomas   <ccthomas@j...>  >   > > >   > > wrote: >   > > > How about one of the 23K btu free-standing kerosene stoves   being  >   > > >   > > sold at >   > > >   > > > WalMart, Home Depot, etc.... ? >   > > > >   > > > kingsknight4life wrote: >   > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Gerald Niffenegger" >   > > > > <niffeneggerniff@a...> wrote: >   > > > >I am looking at backpack stoves as a heat source for a   furnace.  >   > > > >   > > >  Wonder if anyone else has considered these. >   > > >   > > There are two major - well, one major and one might as well   be  >   > > major - problems with heating a boat with and open, non-  vented  >   > > flame.  Yep, non-vented is the clue. >   > > >   > > The major-major problem could be the last one you will ever   have:  >   > > CO. >   > > >   > > The major-minor problem is one that will be obvious to   anyone who  >   > > has lived onboard during the winter, and that's humidity.   Without  >   > > open combustion putting out lots more, it is unreal how much >   > > humidity and thus condensation on cold surfaces there is,   even on a  >   > > well-insulated boat. So, even if you want to risk killing   yourself,  >   > > think of the inconvenience of all that humidity:-) >   > > >   > > eric S/V Nebaras >   > >   > Understood. Thank you. >   > >   > What I don't understand is, if they are that dangerous, how is   it they  >   > are >   > sold, not only in the U.S. but by such as WalMart and Home   Depot, who've  >   > got >   > lots to lose should they be sued. >   > >   > Of course, I understand that it won't do you any good if you   are the  >   > victim, >   > but I can't seem to complete this puzzle. >   > >   > Thanks again, >   > Courtney >   > >   > > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com >   > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: >   > > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links >   > >   > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com >   > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: >   > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com >   > >   > >   > >   > SPONSORED LINKS >   > >   > British >   > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?  t=ms&k=British+columbia+canada&w1=British+  >   >   columbia+canada&w2=Vancouver+island&w3=Yacht&w4=Victoria+bc&c=4&s=79& .si  >   > g=9R67WCgMr5OvBLa-xHHyGA>  columbia canada >   > Vancouver >   > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?  t=ms&k=Vancouver+island&w1=British+columbi  >   >   a+canada&w2=Vancouver+island&w3=Yacht&w4=Victoria+bc&c=4&s=79&.sig=yL 5WO  >   > tgPnpYAmd1P5N16cw>  island >   > Yacht >   > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?  t=ms&k=Yacht&w1=British+columbia+canada&w2  >   >   =Vancouver+island&w3=Yacht&w4=Victoria+bc&c=4&s=79&.sig=VvQDFUjkrcc6E J4x  >   > XP0vjg> >   > >   > Victoria >   > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?  t=ms&k=Victoria+bc&w1=British+columbia+can  >   >   ada&w2=Vancouver+island&w3=Yacht&w4=Victoria+bc&c=4&s=79&.sig=QTHu1FW CcM  >   > WsTCz7vGyGdg>  bc >   > >   > >   > >   >   _____ >   > >   > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS >   > >   > *          Visit your group "origamiboats >   > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats> " on the web. >   > >   > *          To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >   >  origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com >   > <mailto:origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?  subject=Unsubscribe>  >   > >   > *          Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! >   > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>  Terms of Service. >   > >   >   _____ >   > >   > >   > >   > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >   > >   > >   > >   > >   > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com >   > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: >   > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links >   > >   > >   > >  >  >  >   To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com >   To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-  unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com   >  >  >  > -------------------------------------------------------------------  -----------  >   YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS  >  >     a..  Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web. >        >     b..  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >      origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com >        >     c..  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms   of Service.   >  >  > -------------------------------------------------------------------  -----------  >  >  >  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > |
9313|9266|2005-10-25 18:48:55|brentswain38|Re: Wood burning stove|After seeing what they have to do in New Orleans to deal with the  weather, I find it much easier to simply throw another log on the  fire. Brent  --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Carl Volkwein  <carlvolkwein@y...> wrote:  > > Either that, or choose a warmer cruseing ground?  > What kind(how much) ventalation is needed for a wood burning stove? >      Carl Volkwein from W.V. >  > Gerald Niffenegger <niffeneggerniff@a...> wrote: >  > >  > > Hi Gerald > >  > > I've used a few of those backpacking stoves before, for   backpacking.   > I  > > seriosly doubt you could heat a boat with one. > > Rowland > > > The back pack stoves I pointed out put out around 10,000 btu. The   rest   > is just math. If it won't heat your boat then a person needs to   look to   > other means.  > However, I don't ever remember saying that I wanted to place one   on the   > cabin floor and fire it up without ventilation. If one cannot   figure   > out how to ventilate a heat source, they should stick to bolt in   place   > store bought items that have a proven track record. > Gerald >  >  >  >  >  > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-  unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com   >  >  >  > SPONSORED LINKS  > British columbia canada Vancouver island Yacht Victoria bc  >  > --------------------------------- > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS  >  >  >     Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web. >    >     To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >  origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com >    >     Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of   Service.   >  >  > --------------------------------- >  >  >  > 		 > --------------------------------- >  Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click.   >  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > |
9314|9266|2005-10-25 18:51:33|Michael Casling|Re: Wood burning stove|We did this with the small cabin we own. It quickly ran out of air with the wood stove going. I dug a hole under the foundations and ran a pipe from the outside to inside through a new hole in the floor next to the stove. It was surprising how much air was sucked in. The cat was then able to get to stiff the outside with out actually going out. Michael    ----- Original Message -----    From: brentswain38    To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com    Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2005 3:43 PM   Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Wood burning stove     I recently lead my woodstove air intake from outside, a huge    improvemment . It consumes only outside air and sends it back    outside, being completely isolated from the inside of the cabin.   Putting a couple of 4 inch vents with cowls on top, just behind the    forehatch was also a huge improvement . I put a 2 inch 75milliamp    computer fan in a 2 inch pipe leading outside ,behind the engine and    leave it on overnight if I have used the motor . The current draw is    negligible, but it has eliminated the diesel smell from the cabin    after motoring.Since I began taking ventilation seriously , my lungs    are in much better shape.   Brent    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
9315|9160|2005-10-25 19:36:55|seeratlas|Re: Dgst1338-WantedBoatTrailer|I'd be interested in who you guys think is the paragon of societal virtue? No foolin, I'm really curious as to which society you think has done it right.  seer    --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Henri Naths" <c_hnaths@t...> wrote: > > I hear ya buddy, greed makes need. > H >  > ----- Original Message -----  > From: "Courtney Thomas" <ccthomas@j...> > To: <origamiboats@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: 18 October, 2005 9:01 PM > Subject: Re: [origamiboats] Dgst1338-WantedBoatTrailer >  >  > > Henri. > > > > Good to hear from you   :-) > > > > I hope personal ownership for personal use of tractor-trailer rigs  is  > > still > > the same in Canada, which I imagine is so. After all how big is this group > > and how much revenue extraction do they represent ! > > > > Anywsy.....yeah, send all the wood, lumber and gas/oil ya got....... > > > > Actually, that's not my sentiment all all. I wish Canada and the rest of  > > the > > world would cut the U.S. off and force reality down the throats of the  > > morons > > down here. It's gonna happen, one way or the other anyway, and better  > > sooner > > than later  :-(  This country is pitiful. > > > > But I must say, I'm not comfortable with the way Canada has historically > > managed it's affairs either. > > > > Cordially, > > Courtney > > > > > > On Tuesday 18 October 2005 11:51, Henri Naths wrote: > >> Hi Courtney, > >> Yes I believe the same applies for Canada,(at least back in the day I was > >> trucking) > >> Henri > >> (p.s. do you need any soft wood lumber or gas and oil down there...  > >> <grin> > >> ) ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: "Courtney Thomas" <ccthomas@j...> > >> To: <origamiboats@yahoogroups.com> > >> Sent: 18 October, 2005 9:01 AM > >> Subject: Re: [origamiboats] Dgst1338-WantedBoatTrailer > >> > >> > Bill, > >> > > >> > Thank you for your on-going effort to help  :-) > >> > > >> > These regs apply to COMMERCIAL truckers. > >> > > >> > In the U.S. we, of course, also have such regulations, probably about  > >> > the > >> > same, for commercial traffic. > >> > > >> > In the U.S., I am not treated as a commercial operator and the > >> > tractor-trailer > >> > is not treated as a commercial conveyance. The rig is considered a > >> > personal > >> > vehicle and is restricted to be used to only haul my personal property, > >> > such > >> > as a pleasure craft. > >> > > >> > Do you, or anyone else, know if the same is true in Canada  ? > >> > > >> > I realize this is a very small group of people and even in the U.S.  > >> > where > >> > I > >> > would guess it's more prevalent, it's an anomaly with law enforcement  > >> > and > >> > many have no experience dealing with it. > >> > > >> > Cordially, > >> > > >> > Courtney > >> > > >> > On Tuesday 18 October 2005 04:58, Bill Jaine wrote: > >> >> HYPERLINK > >> >> "http://www.tc.gc.ca/pol/nafta-alena/en/resource-manual/weight-dimension > >> >>.ht m > >> >> "http://www.tc.gc.ca/pol/nafta-alena/en/resource-manual/weight-dimension > >> >>.ht m > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> Size regulations for oversize loads > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> Bill > >> >> > >> >> Port Hope. Canada > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> -- > >> >> No virus found in this incoming message. > >> >> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > >> >> Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.12.1/136 - Release Date: > >> >> 15/10/2005 > >> > > >> > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > >> > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > >> > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > >> > Yahoo! Groups Links > >> > >> > >> To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > >> To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > >> origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:  > > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > |
9316|9278|2005-10-25 19:36:55|kingsknight4life|Re: welder and plasma cutters for aluminum construction?|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Carl Volkwein <carlvolkwein@y...>  wrote:  > > Jason, >   >      I read somewhere, on this groupe I think, that aluminum can be   cut useing a circle saw,  > mabe with the blade turned backwards? and that could give you your   bevel cuts.  >    Jaon I cut out the aluminum for my hatces with an ordinary, very cheap,  tabesaw. The blades were aligned normally. I think my main hatch was  3/16" thick, too. Rowland|
9317|9317|2005-10-25 20:20:53|Tim|Re: [origamiboats] Chame um médico|Michael, I was on a remolque, tug boat with barge,  many years ago whose captain and crew were Portuguese Indian mixed folks, but Brazilian. spoke Spanish when they had too, but their language was Portuguese and some indigenous dialect. I got on the boat as crew in Puerto Madera on the Caqueta River, outside of Florencia, Colombia. I was waiting for a new passport to be issued to replace a lost one, so I was just traveling. He picked up some special delivery that looked like an engine crated, I never found out, also a load of Beer, Coca cola, cement and salt. Pay was really bad, but they supplied the food. every morning it was fish head soup and every lunch it was fish soup and dinner was fried or broiled fish, but sometimes monkey or peccavi. The galley hung off the stern and the Brazilian cook had here 4 kids with her. It was quite a journey. After about 2 weeks or so we merged with the Putamayo river and started stopping at ranches that we came too and traded or sold the cargo. I met some fine people including some very beautiful women.  I am sure that there are quite a few green eyed children there now as I am blue eyed. It never occurred to me then as a young man what might happen. But the Capt, a very large man, like to play tricks with me and I always took it, I mean what are you going to do in the middle of the jungle. But in laughing at myself, most times not understanding their language or its content, they began to call me the dog without a tail. I liked the label and have not thought of that for 35 years. thanks for bringing back the memory. I do not speak Portuguese, but I do habla la lengua.  lTalk to you later    ----- Original Message -----    From: Michael Geurink    To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com    Sent: Saturday, September 24, 2005 9:19 PM   Subject: [origamiboats] Chame um médico      Chame um médico.  Call a doc.  Also means, It's officially time to panic   now, you have really pooped it up this time.    Hay, are there any other Portuguese speakers here on the list?  I just   joined a couple days ago from Amazonas, Brasil.    If anyone needs translation of something, just let me know.    Michael      To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com   To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com     ------------------------------------------------------------------------------   YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS       a..  Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web.            b..  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:      origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com            c..  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
9318|9266|2005-10-25 21:56:32|Courtney Thomas|Re: Wood burning stove|Michael,  What is the clay flower pot over the burner system ?  Thanks, Courtney    On Tuesday 25 October 2005 15:23, Michael Casling wrote: > Two guys died in Vancouver BC a few years ago while running a diesel > heater. We had a guy pass out from exhaust fumes in his fizz boat. The boat > ran aground and the engine stalled. The heater was on and when it finally > went cold the cool air revived him. Very scary. Some kerosene heaters may > only work as long as the boat is not moving around otherwise they flair up > a lot. Good luck with this. We all need a heater, but the $1500- price tag > for a diesel unit is slowing me down. Maybe Brent can mention again what he > is using. I am using the clay flower pot over the burner system. > > Michael >   ----- Original Message ----- >   From: Courtney Thomas >   To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com >   Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2005 2:10 PM >   Subject: Re: [origamiboats] Re: Wood burning stove > > >   Paul, > >   Thank you for your reply. > >   I was unaware of the degree which you imply is the case regarding > permitting 'poisonous' substances to be knowingly tolerated by 'the > authorities' in the commerce of the U.S.. I'm possibly like the majority > who might think that there was some reasonable balance in these matters > between the regulators and the producers. > >   Wonder if you'd mind commenting in detail or maybe better for you, > pointing us to an online source that would provide a realistic overview of > the degree, source and range of these problems; and, hopefully, suggested > remedies. > >   More particularly, what is the consequence of the less than lethal, > chronic CO intake ? If anything, is there a known exposure regimen that > indicates a tipping point into irreversible consequence (other than death) > ? Can all this be avoided using CO monitors + ventilation, or would this be > mere conjecture ? > >   Appreciatively, >   Courtney > >   On Tuesday 25 October 2005 09:28, Paul Cotter wrote: >   > I make about half my living consulting on indoor air quality issues. >   > Traditionally, we've relied on leaky structures to let us get away with >   > combustion byproducts. As our structures get tighter, we need to move >   > to sealed combustion appliances. A steel boat should be darn tight, but >   > you can actively ventilate it by opening hatches etc. Anyway, a sealed >   > combustion heater is a much better route for health reasons, especially >   > on a tight boat, but it is obvious that they are not required..throngs >   > of people are not being found dead, poisoned on their boats. They are >   > just found alive, poisoned on their boats. >   > >   > As far as major outlets selling these appliances....its a free market, >   > I suppose. One doesn't need to walk through Home Depot/Walmart very >   > long to find poisons we put in our home. Twinkies comes to mind. As for >   > indoor air quality, we don't regulate it and so we can sell and buy >   > really stupid things for our homes. It's a chronic problem. >   > >   > -----Original Message----- >   > From: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com >   > [mailto:origamiboats@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Courtney Thomas >   > Sent: 10/24/2005 6:44 PM >   > To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com >   > Subject: Re: [origamiboats] Re: Wood burning stove >   > >   > On Monday 24 October 2005 16:06, cirejay wrote: >   > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Courtney Thomas <ccthomas@j...> >   > > >   > > wrote: >   > > > How about one of the 23K btu free-standing kerosene stoves being >   > > >   > > sold at >   > > >   > > > WalMart, Home Depot, etc.... ? >   > > > >   > > > kingsknight4life wrote: >   > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Gerald Niffenegger" >   > > > > <niffeneggerniff@a...> wrote: >   > > > >I am looking at backpack stoves as a heat source for a furnace. >   > > > >   > > >  Wonder if anyone else has considered these. >   > > >   > > There are two major - well, one major and one might as well be >   > > major - problems with heating a boat with and open, non-vented >   > > flame.  Yep, non-vented is the clue. >   > > >   > > The major-major problem could be the last one you will ever have: >   > > CO. >   > > >   > > The major-minor problem is one that will be obvious to anyone who >   > > has lived onboard during the winter, and that's humidity. Without >   > > open combustion putting out lots more, it is unreal how much >   > > humidity and thus condensation on cold surfaces there is, even on a >   > > well-insulated boat. So, even if you want to risk killing yourself, >   > > think of the inconvenience of all that humidity:-) >   > > >   > > eric S/V Nebaras >   > >   > Understood. Thank you. >   > >   > What I don't understand is, if they are that dangerous, how is it they >   > are >   > sold, not only in the U.S. but by such as WalMart and Home Depot, >   > who've got >   > lots to lose should they be sued. >   > >   > Of course, I understand that it won't do you any good if you are the >   > victim, >   > but I can't seem to complete this puzzle. >   > >   > Thanks again, >   > Courtney >   > >   > > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com >   > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: >   > > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links >   > >   > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com >   > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: >   > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com >   > >   > >   > >   > SPONSORED LINKS >   > >   > British >   > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=British+columbia+canada&w1=British >   >+ >   > columbia+canada&w2=Vancouver+island&w3=Yacht&w4=Victoria+bc&c=4&s=79&.s >   >i g=9R67WCgMr5OvBLa-xHHyGA>  columbia canada >   > Vancouver >   > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Vancouver+island&w1=British+columb >   >i >   > a+canada&w2=Vancouver+island&w3=Yacht&w4=Victoria+bc&c=4&s=79&.sig=yL5W >   >O tgPnpYAmd1P5N16cw>  island >   > Yacht >   > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Yacht&w1=British+columbia+canada&w >   >2 >   > =Vancouver+island&w3=Yacht&w4=Victoria+bc&c=4&s=79&.sig=VvQDFUjkrcc6EJ4 >   >x XP0vjg> >   > >   > Victoria >   > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Victoria+bc&w1=British+columbia+ca >   >n >   > ada&w2=Vancouver+island&w3=Yacht&w4=Victoria+bc&c=4&s=79&.sig=QTHu1FWCc >   >M WsTCz7vGyGdg>  bc >   > >   > >   > >   >   _____ >   > >   > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS >   > >   > *          Visit your group "origamiboats >   > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats> " on the web. >   > >   > *          To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >   >  origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com >   > <mailto:origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe> >   > >   > *          Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! >   > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>  Terms of Service. >   > >   >   _____ >   > >   > >   > >   > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >   > >   > >   > >   > >   > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com >   > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: >   > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links > >   To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com >   To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------------- >--- YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > >     a..  Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web. > >     b..  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >      origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > >     c..  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > Service. > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------------- >--- > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links > > > |
9319|9160|2005-10-25 22:28:50|Henri Naths|Re: Dgst1338-WantedBoatTrailer|Hi Seer,  In my humble opinion there is no virtuous society. I hope we are not all done (right or wrong) but driving Hummers, SUVs and 12 cylinders dodges will increase our need for energy to a dangerous level.All I know is I work hard to keep our  impact on energy resources to a minimum. I travel 60  odd miles on a gallon of diesel. Our home heating system will be fueled from renewable resources. In my boat the propulsion system will have a better efficiency ratio than a diesel engine. I think that if we all do our part in low impact on resources, recycling materials, our demand on energy could be sustainable.That is the hope we have for all societies. Sorry about the off topic H. ps. I'm sill working on the bumblebee vs the fixed wing as per density ratios. Thanks for the explanation of the example    ----- Original Message -----    From: seeratlas    To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com    Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2005 5:36 PM   Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Dgst1338-WantedBoatTrailer     I'd be interested in who you guys think is the paragon of societal   virtue? No foolin, I'm really curious as to which society you think   has done it right.    seer     --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Henri Naths" <c_hnaths@t...> wrote:   >   > I hear ya buddy, greed makes need.   > H   >    > ----- Original Message -----    > From: "Courtney Thomas" <ccthomas@j...>   > To: <origamiboats@yahoogroups.com>   > Sent: 18 October, 2005 9:01 PM   > Subject: Re: [origamiboats] Dgst1338-WantedBoatTrailer   >    >    > > Henri.   > >   > > Good to hear from you   :-)   > >   > > I hope personal ownership for personal use of tractor-trailer rigs    is    > > still   > > the same in Canada, which I imagine is so. After all how big is   this group   > > and how much revenue extraction do they represent !   > >   > > Anywsy.....yeah, send all the wood, lumber and gas/oil ya got.......   > >   > > Actually, that's not my sentiment all all. I wish Canada and the   rest of    > > the   > > world would cut the U.S. off and force reality down the throats of   the    > > morons   > > down here. It's gonna happen, one way or the other anyway, and better    > > sooner   > > than later  :-(  This country is pitiful.   > >   > > But I must say, I'm not comfortable with the way Canada has   historically   > > managed it's affairs either.   > >   > > Cordially,   > > Courtney   > >   > >   > > On Tuesday 18 October 2005 11:51, Henri Naths wrote:   > >> Hi Courtney,   > >> Yes I believe the same applies for Canada,(at least back in the   day I was   > >> trucking)   > >> Henri   > >> (p.s. do you need any soft wood lumber or gas and oil down there...    > >> <grin>   > >> ) ----- Original Message -----   > >> From: "Courtney Thomas" <ccthomas@j...>   > >> To: <origamiboats@yahoogroups.com>   > >> Sent: 18 October, 2005 9:01 AM   > >> Subject: Re: [origamiboats] Dgst1338-WantedBoatTrailer   > >>   > >> > Bill,   > >> >   > >> > Thank you for your on-going effort to help  :-)   > >> >   > >> > These regs apply to COMMERCIAL truckers.   > >> >   > >> > In the U.S. we, of course, also have such regulations, probably   about    > >> > the   > >> > same, for commercial traffic.   > >> >   > >> > In the U.S., I am not treated as a commercial operator and the   > >> > tractor-trailer   > >> > is not treated as a commercial conveyance. The rig is considered a   > >> > personal   > >> > vehicle and is restricted to be used to only haul my personal   property,   > >> > such   > >> > as a pleasure craft.   > >> >   > >> > Do you, or anyone else, know if the same is true in Canada  ?   > >> >   > >> > I realize this is a very small group of people and even in the   U.S.    > >> > where   > >> > I   > >> > would guess it's more prevalent, it's an anomaly with law   enforcement    > >> > and   > >> > many have no experience dealing with it.   > >> >   > >> > Cordially,   > >> >   > >> > Courtney   > >> >   > >> > On Tuesday 18 October 2005 04:58, Bill Jaine wrote:   > >> >> HYPERLINK   > >> >>   "http://www.tc.gc.ca/pol/nafta-alena/en/resource-manual/weight-dimension   > >> >>.ht m   > >> >>   "http://www.tc.gc.ca/pol/nafta-alena/en/resource-manual/weight-dimension   > >> >>.ht m   > >> >>   > >> >>   > >> >>   > >> >> Size regulations for oversize loads   > >> >>   > >> >>   > >> >>   > >> >>   > >> >>   > >> >> Bill   > >> >>   > >> >> Port Hope. Canada   > >> >>   > >> >>   > >> >>   > >> >>   > >> >>   > >> >>   > >> >> --   > >> >> No virus found in this incoming message.   > >> >> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.   > >> >> Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.12.1/136 - Release Date:   > >> >> 15/10/2005   > >> >   > >> > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com   > >> > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:   > >> > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com   > >> > Yahoo! Groups Links   > >>   > >>   > >> To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com   > >> To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:   > >> origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links   > >>   > >>   > >>   > >   > >   > >   > >   > > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com   > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:    > > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com   > > Yahoo! Groups Links   > >   > >   > >   > >   > >   > >   > >   > >   >          To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com   To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com    Yahoo! Groups Links            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
9320|9160|2005-10-25 23:04:08|Jerry Scovel|Re: Dgst1338-WantedBoatTrailer|Henri,  It may be off topic here but I know hundreds of people that would be very interested in learning of energy conservation for boats. You can go to http://groups.yahoo.com/group/libertarianisland/ http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Savonious/ your posts will be well received.  Jerry.   on 10/25/05 9:24 PM, Henri Naths at c_hnaths@... wrote:  Hi Seer, In my humble opinion there is no virtuous society. I hope we are not all done (right or wrong) but driving Hummers, SUVs and 12 cylinders dodges will increase our need for energy to a dangerous level.All I know is I work hard to keep our  impact on energy resources to a minimum. I travel 60  odd miles on a gallon of diesel. Our home heating system will be fueled from renewable resources. In my boat the propulsion system will have a better efficiency ratio than a diesel engine. I think that if we all do our part in low impact on resources, recycling materials, our demand on energy could be sustainable.That is the hope we have for all societies. Sorry about the off topic H. ps. I'm sill working on the bumblebee vs the fixed wing as per density ratios. Thanks for the explanation of the example     [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]|
9321|9321|2005-10-25 23:18:07|John Foster|Sealed Combustion|As long as we are talking about sealed combustion in stoves, take a look at <http://www.isracast.com/tech_news/231005_tech.htm> <http://www.isracast.com/tech_news/090905_tech.htm>     THE CAR THAT MAKES ITS OWN FUEL  A unique system that can produce Hydrogen inside a car using common  metals such as Magnesium and Aluminum was developed by an Israeli  company. The system solves all of the obstacles associated with the  manufacturing, transporting and storing of hydrogen to be used in  cars. When it becomes commercial in a few years time, the system will  be incorporated into cars that will cost about the same as existing  conventional cars to run, and will be completely emission free.  I want a marinized version of that!  John    >Message: 1 >    Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 08:28:22 -0800 >    From: "Paul Cotter" <paulcotter@...> >Subject: RE: Re: Wood burning stove >SNIP >  Anyway, a sealed combustion heater is a much better route for  >health reasons, especially >on a tight boat, but it is obvious that they are not required. >  SNIP >As for indoor air quality, we don't regulate it and so we can sell  >and buy really stupid things for our homes. It's a chronic problem.   --   [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]|
9322|9322|2005-10-25 23:20:22|audeojude|Request to members|Ladies and Gentlemen, I just spent as much time scrolling through the last digest as I did reading it. It is again time to ask for your forbearance and attention to good email manners. If you reply to a digest please delete all of the original material other than the part most pertinate to your reply. Other than that we have already read the prior posts and don't need to see them 8 more times.   to give a little detail to this request i coppied the last digest into a word processor and ran some statistics on it. there were 18969 words in it with a total of 125450 characters  after editing out all the stuff that was extranious to the new posts in the digest there were only 3272 words and 18832 characters left. I even left in some of the old posts in the new ones that looked pertinate to the new content.  allmost 5/6ths of the the message was junk that had to be waded through to get to the content. I actually found on going back and copying the new content to the word processor that i had even missed reading two posts the first time around due to scrolling past them the first time around.  I know I probably sound a bit anal but my time is precious and when it starts to take as long to find the new content as to read it then a lot of our time is being wasted for no return.  so to get off my soapbox please clean up your replies before you send them.  thanks scott|
9323|9278|2005-10-25 23:43:00|Jon & Wanda(Tink)|Re: welder and plasma cutters for aluminum construction?|That would be a NON-CARBIDE blade 18-24 tooth combo blade put in the  saw backwards safty glasses and ear protection as weld as good gloves.  Workes good on Alum if taken slow and light gage steel as well. on  steel buildings we would cut a stack of corrigated steel panels at a  time but it wore the blades out fast. It is best to start the cut at a  outside edge and cut into the sheet.  Jon  --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Carl Volkwein <carlvolkwein@y...>  wrote:  > > Jason, >   >      I read somewhere, on this groupe I think, that aluminum can be   cut useing a circle saw,  > mabe with the blade turned backwards? and that could give you your   bevel cuts.  >                              Carl Volkwein from W.V. |
9324|9278|2005-10-25 23:56:50|Jon & Wanda(Tink)|Re: welder and plasma cutters for aluminum construction?|The reason for puting the blade in backwarts is so if it binds the  teath can't catch and throw things. A safty and the blade lasts longer.  Jon|
9325|9278|2005-10-26 00:00:30|djackson99@aol.com|Re: welder and plasma cutters for aluminum construction?|I'm building an aluminum boat too, and contemplating an origami boat for the  next project :)   I've cut 3" thick 6000 series on a table saw with a cheap  carbide blade.  Use WD-40 or other cutting oil and go slow.  I cut 3/16, 5000  series with the table saw, circular saws, routers, cut out tools, etc.  Anything  with a carbide blade.  There are photos on my web site under "Putting the  Hull Together"  www.submarineboat.com    For the group:  Has anyone used a CNC plasma table for building a steel or  aluminum boat and was it worth the investment?  Thanks --Doug   [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]|
9326|9160|2005-10-26 00:07:23|Henri Naths|Re: Dgst1338-WantedBoatTrailer|thank for the links Jerry.. the guys on electricboats@... have the math pretty well figured out. Check it out for alternate power resources as per off grid. An application could be configured for home use... H       [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]|
9327|9160|2005-10-26 00:22:31|Jerry Scovel|Re: Dgst1338-WantedBoatTrailer|You are welcome, thank you for your link as well. The energy companies have had us under their thumb far too long.   on 10/25/05 11:04 PM, Henri Naths at c_hnaths@... wrote:  thank for the links Jerry.. the guys on electricboats@... have the math pretty well figured out. Check it out for alternate power resources as per off grid. An application could be configured for home use... H      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]    To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com    SPONSORED LINKS         British columbia canada <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=British+columbia+canada&w1=British+colu mbia+canada&w2=Vancouver+island&w3=Yacht&w4=Victoria+bc&c=4&s=79&.sig=9R67WC gMr5OvBLa-xHHyGA> Vancouver island <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Vancouver+island&w1=British+columbia+ca nada&w2=Vancouver+island&w3=Yacht&w4=Victoria+bc&c=4&s=79&.sig=yL5WOtgPnpYAm d1P5N16cw> Yacht  <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Yacht&w1=British+columbia+canada&w2=Van couver+island&w3=Yacht&w4=Victoria+bc&c=4&s=79&.sig=VvQDFUjkrcc6EJ4xXP0vjg> Victoria bc  <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Victoria+bc&w1=British+columbia+canada& w2=Vancouver+island&w3=Yacht&w4=Victoria+bc&c=4&s=79&.sig=QTHu1FWCcMWsTCz7vG yGdg>          YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS   Visit your group "origamiboats <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats> " on the web.     To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:  origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <mailto:origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>    Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]|
9328|9266|2005-10-26 00:27:43|jericoera|Re: Brent's specs!|Thanks for the stove specs Brent!!. I was wondering what to build  for the 36 footer and was looking at duplicating something like a  smaller Pacific Energy stove from the Island. I found with ceramic  glass on the front, it radiates heat a lot more than the sides and  top of the stove and really throws the light into the room too. The  inside of our wood stove has fire bricks as a liner.  By using the ceramic glass, you also can see exactly how well the  fire is drafting and when to throw on a nother log. The glass itself  is remarkably tough. I've slammed an oversized log in there a couple  times and slammed the door into the end of the log and it hasn't  phased the glass a bit-no hairline fractures or anything.  I am not a big endorsement guy for products, but those Pacific  energy stoves are darn remarkable and they build them with a  secondary combustion chamber so that when they are heated up good,  you can only see a heat wave from the chimney--they burn up the  smoke.    Carl McIntosh|
9329|9322|2005-10-26 07:36:31|cirejay|Re: Request to members|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "audeojude" <audeojude@y...> wrote:  > > Ladies and Gentlemen, > I just spent as much time scrolling through the last digest as I did > reading it. It is again time to ask for your forbearance and attention > to good email manners. If you reply to a digest please delete all of > the original material other than the part most pertinate to your > reply. Other than that we have already read the prior posts and don't > need to see them 8 more times.    Thank you Scott for saying such.  I try to do as you say and I know  some do also, but not enough. To keep the length of this post down,  I'll end by saying that I quite agree. eric S/V Nebaras|
9330|9160|2005-10-26 07:42:39|edward_stoneuk|Re: Dgst1338-WantedBoatTrailer|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "seeratlas" <seeratlas@y...>  wrote:  > > I'd be interested in who you guys think is the paragon of societal > virtue? No foolin, I'm really curious as to which society you think > has done it right.   Seer,  There is a place that you can visit in your origamiboat called  Tikopeia.  It is one of the eastern outer islands of the Solomon  Islands in the western Pacific.  A year or two ago Tikopeia was  reported on the BBC news as being in the centre of a cyclone and,  because the population was living in beachside leaf house villages  it was feared that everyone would have been drowned in the tidal  surge at the eye of the cyclone.  Several days later when a long  distance reconnaisance plane flew over the island the TV crew saw  the villages partially submerged in the sand and feared the worst,  but folks where seen standing and looking up at the plane.  When a  rescue boat finally arrived it found that no one had drowned.   Because cyclones had happened before in the time before come, the  island chiefs had, over generations, maintained water and provisions  in caves in the hill on the island.  When the cyclone came the whole  population moved to the caves and sat out the storm.  This is the  most impressive  example I know of a society having the intelligence  and cohesion to plan successfully for a disaster. Regards, Ted|
9331|9278|2005-10-26 08:48:20|Courtney Thomas|Re: welder and plasma cutters for aluminum construction?|Why is this not done all the time, i.e. backward blade for ALL cutting ? Thank you, Courtney   On Tuesday 25 October 2005 20:56, Jon & Wanda(Tink) wrote: > The reason for puting the blade in backwarts is so if it binds the > teath can't catch and throw things. A safty and the blade lasts longer. |
9332|9332|2005-10-26 10:50:07|mickeyolaf|Okume Plywood|There is a company in Coquitlam,BC clearing out 5/8" nine ply Okume  plywood for $23.00 a sheet. They have 7700 sheets. It is waterproof  and good one side with the backside only having small knots. I bought 20 the other day. A friend of mine, a retired cabinetmaker  from Westbay Yachts checked it out, said it was good wood, and bought  some himself. He added that it is rotary cut so is not good for a  clear finish but excellent for laminate, veneering, paint, painted  bulkheads, berths, gluing, cabinet framing etc. The company selling it is Warex at 225 North Road in Coquitlam Phone  604-939-8004. Tell them you want the "flyer" price of $23.00 per sheet  otherwise they will try to get $25.00 out of you.  Warex sent flyers out to a number of BC Boatbuilders which is how I  heard about it. Some company in Vancouver lost it's warehouse which is  how Warex ended up with it. Warex had room to store it. I looked on  the internet and 5/8" Okume is $115.00 US plus shipping. Warex told me  they are selling about one lift per day. One lift is 66 sheets. Each  sheet is 45 pounds. At that rate my math says it will all be gone in  less than 4 months.|
9333|9198|2005-10-26 12:26:12|richytill|Re: Marinizing an engine|Engine folks,    Here is a cost breakdown, by the year, on installing a VW 16D engine  with a Borg Warner 71c transmission.  Year 1: $1679.03; year 2:  $2402.80; year 3: $1497.50; year 4: $1007.27--this should total  $6586.60.  This includes all the anti freeze; oil coolers; hoses;  clamps; 2 racor fuel filters; prop and spare prop; gaskets; timing  belt; glow plugs; making the flywheel assy'; external filters;  exhhaust system and every little nut, bolt, gasket, morse control  cable, with prop shaft, stuffing box etc.  I have been motoring for around 70 hours now and am pleased with the  system--performance is as predicted from calculations (7.2 knts @3200  rpm),parts are affordable and easy to come by.  The engine is limited  to 3300 rpm for peak volumetric efficiency.  Manifold is cooled by  bilge blower fan exiting above underwater exhaust anti-siphon loop.   Starter must be protected with an aluminum heat shield.  rt        --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "T & D CAIN" <thcain@o...> wrote: > > Gord, Unfortunately the people who were responsible for  investigating or > removing the engine from the boat damaged the Bowman combination > heatexchanger/manifold/head tank, which is a model VW150 and is  allegedly > still available new as are all the parts. > The damage is to both ends of the cast alloy section which houses  the tube > stack. About 6 tubes in the stack have been indented as a result.  Number one > cylinder exhaust stub flange was also damaged. I suppose the  casting could > be repaired, but those tubes would be a pain to replace or fix as  they are > silver brazed to the header ends of the stack. As you probably  know, the > neoprene end caps need to fit and seal both the alloy ends and the  tube > stack headers. > I can take some photos of the parts if required. > This model heat exchanger is identical to mine. > I had a look in the top of the camshaft case and the damn thing  looked like > new! Apparently the engine was seized (#3 cylinder) and a A$12000  Yanmar was > installed by the new owner. > I stripped most easily removable bits including the damper drive  which > looked new --- I should have just taken the whole engine as it was  headed > for the tip. > Terry > -----Original Message----- > From:	origamiboats@yahoogroups.com  [mailto:origamiboats@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of gschnell > Sent:	Monday, 24 October 2005 03:06 > To:	origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > Subject:	Re: [origamiboats] Marinizing an engine > |
9334|9198|2005-10-26 12:50:51|Henri Naths|Re: Marinizing an engine|Hi Richard  Nice to here from you concerning vw.( I am assuming a16d is 1600 cc non turbo ) Do you have stats on per hr fuel consumption as per rpm range?  Is there a reason you chose non turbo other than the availability factor? Thanks   H.     ----- Original Message -----    From: richytill    To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com    Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2005 10:25 AM   Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Marinizing an engine     Engine folks,      Here is a cost breakdown, by the year, on installing a VW 16D engine    with a Borg Warner 71c transmission.  Year 1: $1679.03; year 2:    $2402.80; year 3: $1497.50; year 4: $1007.27--this should total    $6586.60.  This includes all the anti freeze; oil coolers; hoses;    clamps; 2 racor fuel filters; prop and spare prop; gaskets; timing    belt; glow plugs; making the flywheel assy'; external filters;    exhhaust system and every little nut, bolt, gasket, morse control    cable, with prop shaft, stuffing box etc.    I have been motoring for around 70 hours now and am pleased with the    system--performance is as predicted from calculations (7.2 knts @3200    rpm),parts are affordable and easy to come by.  The engine is limited    to 3300 rpm for peak volumetric efficiency.  Manifold is cooled by    bilge blower fan exiting above underwater exhaust anti-siphon loop.     Starter must be protected with an aluminum heat shield.  rt         --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "T & D CAIN" <thcain@o...> wrote:   >   > Gord, Unfortunately the people who were responsible for    investigating or   > removing the engine from the boat damaged the Bowman combination   > heatexchanger/manifold/head tank, which is a model VW150 and is    allegedly   > still available new as are all the parts.   > The damage is to both ends of the cast alloy section which houses    the tube   > stack. About 6 tubes in the stack have been indented as a result.    Number one   > cylinder exhaust stub flange was also damaged. I suppose the    casting could   > be repaired, but those tubes would be a pain to replace or fix as    they are   > silver brazed to the header ends of the stack. As you probably    know, the   > neoprene end caps need to fit and seal both the alloy ends and the    tube   > stack headers.   > I can take some photos of the parts if required.   > This model heat exchanger is identical to mine.   > I had a look in the top of the camshaft case and the damn thing    looked like   > new! Apparently the engine was seized (#3 cylinder) and a A$12000    Yanmar was   > installed by the new owner.   > I stripped most easily removable bits including the damper drive    which   > looked new --- I should have just taken the whole engine as it was    headed   > for the tip.   > Terry   > -----Original Message-----   > From: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com    [mailto:origamiboats@yahoogroups.com] On   > Behalf Of gschnell   > Sent: Monday, 24 October 2005 03:06   > To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com   > Subject: Re: [origamiboats] Marinizing an engine   >          To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com   To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com    Yahoo! Groups Links           [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
9335|9332|2005-10-26 13:05:12|Courtney Thomas|Re: Okume Plywood|Any idea how I can get the shipping rate to Nova Scotia to a reasonable  amount  ?  Thanks, Courtney    On Wednesday 26 October 2005 07:48, mickeyolaf wrote: > There is a company in Coquitlam,BC clearing out 5/8" nine ply Okume > plywood for $23.00 a sheet. They have 7700 sheets. It is waterproof > and good one side with the backside only having small knots. > I bought 20 the other day. A friend of mine, a retired cabinetmaker > from Westbay Yachts checked it out, said it was good wood, and bought > some himself. He added that it is rotary cut so is not good for a > clear finish but excellent for laminate, veneering, paint, painted > bulkheads, berths, gluing, cabinet framing etc. > The company selling it is Warex at 225 North Road in Coquitlam Phone > 604-939-8004. Tell them you want the "flyer" price of $23.00 per sheet > otherwise they will try to get $25.00 out of you. > Warex sent flyers out to a number of BC Boatbuilders which is how I > heard about it. Some company in Vancouver lost it's warehouse which is > how Warex ended up with it. Warex had room to store it. I looked on > the internet and 5/8" Okume is $115.00 US plus shipping. Warex told me > they are selling about one lift per day. One lift is 66 sheets. Each > sheet is 45 pounds. At that rate my math says it will all be gone in > less than 4 months. > > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links > > > |
9336|9278|2005-10-26 13:31:58|Jon & Wanda(Tink)|Re: welder and plasma cutters for aluminum construction?|When you have tried it both ways with aluminum and wood you will have  the answer from exsoereance and the question would then be one that  makes you say HUMMMM.    > Why is this not done all the time, i.e. backward blade for ALL   cutting ?  > Thank you, > Courtney >  > On Tuesday 25 October 2005 20:56, Jon & Wanda(Tink) wrote: > > The reason for puting the blade in backwarts is so if it binds the > > teath can't catch and throw things. A safty and the blade lasts   longer.  > |
9337|9332|2005-10-26 13:49:54|mickeyolaf|Re: Okume Plywood|Call Warex. They will send you a 12" x 12" sample of the wood. They  have a bunch cut already for that purpose. I would then ask them  about shipping. They are a big warehouse. Probably have contacts.  You would want to piggy back on a shipment already going east to  keep your costs down. I don't know any shippers out here that go to  N.S.. The wood is heavy, 45 lbs per sheet. A lift is 66 sheets.  Maybe some other eastern Swain builders might want some and you  could share the cost to ship a lift? The lifts are not wrapped in  plastic so I would ask Warex to wrap your order so it would not be  rain/snow stained if it was put on a flatdeck instead of in a  trailer. If the truck is coming from Nova Scotia could you send us  BC builders some lobster? Brent, how many lobsters do you want?    --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Courtney Thomas <ccthomas@j...>  wrote:  > > Any idea how I can get the shipping rate to Nova Scotia to a   reasonable   > amount  ? >  > Thanks, > Courtney >  >  > On Wednesday 26 October 2005 07:48, mickeyolaf wrote: > > There is a company in Coquitlam,BC clearing out 5/8" nine ply   Okume  > > plywood for $23.00 a sheet. They have 7700 sheets. It is   waterproof  > > and good one side with the backside only having small knots. > > I bought 20 the other day. A friend of mine, a retired   cabinetmaker  > > from Westbay Yachts checked it out, said it was good wood, and   bought  > > some himself. He added that it is rotary cut so is not good for a > > clear finish but excellent for laminate, veneering, paint,   painted  > > bulkheads, berths, gluing, cabinet framing etc. > > The company selling it is Warex at 225 North Road in Coquitlam   Phone  > > 604-939-8004. Tell them you want the "flyer" price of $23.00 per   sheet  > > otherwise they will try to get $25.00 out of you. > > Warex sent flyers out to a number of BC Boatbuilders which is   how I  > > heard about it. Some company in Vancouver lost it's warehouse   which is  > > how Warex ended up with it. Warex had room to store it. I looked   on  > > the internet and 5/8" Okume is $115.00 US plus shipping. Warex   told me  > > they are selling about one lift per day. One lift is 66 sheets.   Each  > > sheet is 45 pounds. At that rate my math says it will all be   gone in  > > less than 4 months. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > |
9338|9332|2005-10-26 14:01:44|Courtney Thomas|Re: Okume Plywood|We ought to work something out.......lobsters for Okume   :-) They ship 'em all about 10 minutes from me !  Courtney    On Wednesday 26 October 2005 10:48, mickeyolaf wrote: > Call Warex. They will send you a 12" x 12" sample of the wood. They > have a bunch cut already for that purpose. I would then ask them > about shipping. They are a big warehouse. Probably have contacts. > You would want to piggy back on a shipment already going east to > keep your costs down. I don't know any shippers out here that go to > N.S.. The wood is heavy, 45 lbs per sheet. A lift is 66 sheets. > Maybe some other eastern Swain builders might want some and you > could share the cost to ship a lift? The lifts are not wrapped in > plastic so I would ask Warex to wrap your order so it would not be > rain/snow stained if it was put on a flatdeck instead of in a > trailer. If the truck is coming from Nova Scotia could you send us > BC builders some lobster? Brent, how many lobsters do you want? > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Courtney Thomas <ccthomas@j...> > > wrote: > > Any idea how I can get the shipping rate to Nova Scotia to a > > reasonable > > > amount  ? > > > > Thanks, > > Courtney > > > > On Wednesday 26 October 2005 07:48, mickeyolaf wrote: > > > There is a company in Coquitlam,BC clearing out 5/8" nine ply > > Okume > > > > plywood for $23.00 a sheet. They have 7700 sheets. It is > > waterproof > > > > and good one side with the backside only having small knots. > > > I bought 20 the other day. A friend of mine, a retired > > cabinetmaker > > > > from Westbay Yachts checked it out, said it was good wood, and > > bought > > > > some himself. He added that it is rotary cut so is not good for a > > > clear finish but excellent for laminate, veneering, paint, > > painted > > > > bulkheads, berths, gluing, cabinet framing etc. > > > The company selling it is Warex at 225 North Road in Coquitlam > > Phone > > > > 604-939-8004. Tell them you want the "flyer" price of $23.00 per > > sheet > > > > otherwise they will try to get $25.00 out of you. > > > Warex sent flyers out to a number of BC Boatbuilders which is > > how I > > > > heard about it. Some company in Vancouver lost it's warehouse > > which is > > > > how Warex ended up with it. Warex had room to store it. I looked > > on > > > > the internet and 5/8" Okume is $115.00 US plus shipping. Warex > > told me > > > > they are selling about one lift per day. One lift is 66 sheets. > > Each > > > > sheet is 45 pounds. At that rate my math says it will all be > > gone in > > > > less than 4 months. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > > > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links > > > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links > > > |
9339|9332|2005-10-26 14:07:20|Courtney Thomas|Re: Okume Plywood|Sure would appreciate a phone # for Warex.  Thanks again, Courtney    On Wednesday 26 October 2005 10:48, mickeyolaf wrote: > Call Warex. They will send you a 12" x 12" sample of the wood. They > have a bunch cut already for that purpose. I would then ask them > about shipping. They are a big warehouse. Probably have contacts. > You would want to piggy back on a shipment already going east to > keep your costs down. I don't know any shippers out here that go to > N.S.. The wood is heavy, 45 lbs per sheet. A lift is 66 sheets. > Maybe some other eastern Swain builders might want some and you > could share the cost to ship a lift? The lifts are not wrapped in > plastic so I would ask Warex to wrap your order so it would not be > rain/snow stained if it was put on a flatdeck instead of in a > trailer. If the truck is coming from Nova Scotia could you send us > BC builders some lobster? Brent, how many lobsters do you want? > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Courtney Thomas <ccthomas@j...> > > wrote: > > Any idea how I can get the shipping rate to Nova Scotia to a > > reasonable > > > amount  ? > > > > Thanks, > > Courtney > > > > On Wednesday 26 October 2005 07:48, mickeyolaf wrote: > > > There is a company in Coquitlam,BC clearing out 5/8" nine ply > > Okume > > > > plywood for $23.00 a sheet. They have 7700 sheets. It is > > waterproof > > > > and good one side with the backside only having small knots. > > > I bought 20 the other day. A friend of mine, a retired > > cabinetmaker > > > > from Westbay Yachts checked it out, said it was good wood, and > > bought > > > > some himself. He added that it is rotary cut so is not good for a > > > clear finish but excellent for laminate, veneering, paint, > > painted > > > > bulkheads, berths, gluing, cabinet framing etc. > > > The company selling it is Warex at 225 North Road in Coquitlam > > Phone > > > > 604-939-8004. Tell them you want the "flyer" price of $23.00 per > > sheet > > > > otherwise they will try to get $25.00 out of you. > > > Warex sent flyers out to a number of BC Boatbuilders which is > > how I > > > > heard about it. Some company in Vancouver lost it's warehouse > > which is > > > > how Warex ended up with it. Warex had room to store it. I looked > > on > > > > the internet and 5/8" Okume is $115.00 US plus shipping. Warex > > told me > > > > they are selling about one lift per day. One lift is 66 sheets. > > Each > > > > sheet is 45 pounds. At that rate my math says it will all be > > gone in > > > > less than 4 months. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > > > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links > > > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links > > > |
9340|9332|2005-10-26 14:12:02|kingsknight4life|Re: Okume Plywood|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Courtney Thomas <ccthomas@j...>  wrote:  > > Sure would appreciate a phone # for Warex. >  > Thanks again,  Courtney It is listed in the original post. Rowland|
9341|9332|2005-10-26 14:27:06|mickeyolaf|Re: Okume Plywood|Rowland, if you want some of that plywood let me know and I will bring  it over to the Island for you on one of my trips.   --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "kingsknight4life"  <wildcatbjj@h...> wrote:  > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Courtney Thomas <ccthomas@j...>  > wrote: > > > > Sure would appreciate a phone # for Warex. > >  > > Thanks again, > Courtney > It is listed in the original post. > Rowland > |
9342|9332|2005-10-26 14:57:15|kingsknight4life|Re: Okume Plywood|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "mickeyolaf" <mickeyolaf@y...>  wrote:  > > Rowland, if you want some of that plywood let me know and I will   bring   > it over to the Island for you on one of my trips. >   Mickey The guy told me that it's NOT stamped as marine grade. Is that true?  He also told me that he wants $30/ sheet. I said, I wanted th "flyer  price" and he said that was 30, too. I said my friend bought some for  $23.00 and he said, "ok he'd do it for 23". lol Even if it's not marine grade you can't beat the price. I think 5/8  spruce is still 30/sheet.   Mickey, I'll let you know ASAP. As soon as I figure out how much I  need. Thanks for the offer,l appreciate it. Do you know when you're  coming over next, as we will be gone in the first 2 weeks of Nov. Rowland|
9343|9343|2005-10-26 14:59:32|mickeyolaf|Hillrange Alcohol Stove|If anyone is interested in a gimbled new all stainless steel 2 burner  with oven marine alcohol stove let me know. It has the pressure tank  and mounts with it, has never been used. Hillranges are convertable to  kersosene or diesel or overproof rum by changing out the burners or  keep it on alcohol. It's available for $100.00 including the tank. I'm  in Burnaby at 778-837-5725.|
9344|9343|2005-10-26 15:29:58|jericoera|Re: Hillrange Alcohol Stove|You have all kinds of goodies. Still have the mast?  Carl M.  --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "mickeyolaf" <mickeyolaf@y...>  wrote:  > > If anyone is interested in a gimbled new all stainless steel 2   burner   > with oven marine alcohol stove let me know. It has the pressure tank  > and mounts with it, has never been used. Hillranges are convertable   to   > kersosene or diesel or overproof rum by changing out the burners or  > keep it on alcohol. It's available for $100.00 including the tank.   I'm   > in Burnaby at 778-837-5725. > |
9345|9332|2005-10-26 15:38:41|mickeyolaf|Re: Okume Plywood|I talked to Murray at the sales office, not the warehouse guy, and  he told me a sheet was tested under water for two weeks and it did  not come apart. That the glue is waterproof. Warex will send you a  12" x 12" sample if you want to test it yourself. Okume is a type of mahogany. All of us (5 builders) have paid $23.00  a sheet for it so far. I know it is not stamped. It is claimed to be  waterproof. There are no voids visible. Is that not marine grade?  The original boatbuilder who bought some and told me about it said  it was marine grade. I know Warex are trying to up the price now  that people are buying it but they sent out flyers to builders with  $23 a sheet on it. My Westbay friend said it is good wood for boats. He bought some for  $23 a sheet. My next trip is Saturday Nov 5 then two weeks after  that.    --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "kingsknight4life"  <wildcatbjj@h...> wrote:  > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "mickeyolaf"   <mickeyolaf@y...>   > wrote: > > > > Rowland, if you want some of that plywood let me know and I will  > bring  > > it over to the Island for you on one of my trips. > >  > Mickey > The guy told me that it's NOT stamped as marine grade. Is that   true?   > He also told me that he wants $30/ sheet. I said, I wanted   th "flyer   > price" and he said that was 30, too. I said my friend bought some   for   > $23.00 and he said, "ok he'd do it for 23". lol > Even if it's not marine grade you can't beat the price. I think   5/8   > spruce is still 30/sheet.  >  > Mickey, I'll let you know ASAP. As soon as I figure out how much I  > need. Thanks for the offer,l appreciate it. Do you know when   you're   > coming over next, as we will be gone in the first 2 weeks of Nov. > Rowland > |
9346|9343|2005-10-26 15:41:10|mickeyolaf|Re: Hillrange Alcohol Stove|No, I sold it last week to a member of this group. I just have to  put it over my shoulder and carry it to Edmonton now.  --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "jericoera" <jericoera@y...>  wrote:  > > You have all kinds of goodies. Still have the mast? >  > Carl M. >  > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "mickeyolaf"   <mickeyolaf@y...>   > wrote: > > > > If anyone is interested in a gimbled new all stainless steel 2  > burner  > > with oven marine alcohol stove let me know. It has the pressure   tank   > > and mounts with it, has never been used. Hillranges are   convertable   > to  > > kersosene or diesel or overproof rum by changing out the burners   or   > > keep it on alcohol. It's available for $100.00 including the   tank.   > I'm  > > in Burnaby at 778-837-5725. > > > |
9347|9278|2005-10-26 15:55:32|brentswain38|Re: welder and plasma cutters for aluminum construction?|A friend who used to buuild aluminium boats just used standard  skilsaw blades from the secondhand store with the teeth facing  foreward in the normal fashion. This wouldn't work for steel, but it  worked well for him on aluminium for many years. Brent  --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Jon & Wanda(Tink)"  <windyjon@m...> wrote:  > > That would be a NON-CARBIDE blade 18-24 tooth combo blade put in   the   > saw backwards safty glasses and ear protection as weld as good   gloves.   > Workes good on Alum if taken slow and light gage steel as well. on  > steel buildings we would cut a stack of corrigated steel panels at   a   > time but it wore the blades out fast. It is best to start the cut   at a   > outside edge and cut into the sheet. >  > Jon >  > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Carl Volkwein   <carlvolkwein@y...>   > wrote: > > > > Jason, > >   > >      I read somewhere, on this groupe I think, that aluminum can   be   > cut useing a circle saw, > > mabe with the blade turned backwards? and that could give you   your   > bevel cuts. > >                              Carl Volkwein from W.V. > |
9348|9278|2005-10-26 17:53:52|Gary H. Lucas|Re: welder and plasma cutters for aluminum construction?|I went to the website mentioned below and looked at the information on  aluminum welding.  I sent the guy this email.  I thought it might help you  as well.  Doug, Someone on the origami boat mail list posted a link to your website.  He was interested in aluminum welding so I took a look.  I know a bit about welding aluminum, so I looked at what you wrote about how to do it, and I looked at the pictures of your welds.  I believe you don't have your welding machine adjusted properly.  Here's what makes me think that.  You mentioned the little ball on the end of the welding wire after welding.  There shouldn't be any, it should be a sharp point.  Your welds are very smoky down both sides, there should be very little smoke.  The welds do not flow smoothly into the parent metal, and they should everywhere.  Aluminum should be welded using spray arc, not short arc.  You can tell if you are using spray arc by several signs.  First, when you stop welding the wire has a sharp point, not a ball on the end.  Second, when you are welding the sound is like the sound made by a spray gun when spray painting, not like eggs frying.  Third, the weld will be quite shiny and not all smoky. Fourth, while welding there will be almost no sparks thrown off, all the metal will go into the weld.  To get spray arc you need to turn the voltage up, and the wire speed too as you increase the voltage.  Keep turning up the voltage and the wire speed until you hear the dramatic change in the sound of the weld, then just a little more so that it is welding smoothly that way.  I think you are going to be amazed at just how far you need to turn up the voltage to get this happen.  Once you achieve spray arc several things will occur.  Your welds will be much nicer looking.  Your welds will be much stronger.  You will be welding MUCH faster.  You will get much more weld per spool of wire.  I suspect your gun will stop overheating too, because all the heat will be going into the weld.  Please let me know if this works for you.  Best Regards,  Gary H. Lucas  ----- Original Message -----  From: <djackson99@...> To: <origamiboats@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2005 12:00 AM Subject: Re: [origamiboats] Re: welder and plasma cutters for aluminum  construction?   > I'm building an aluminum boat too, and contemplating an origami boat for  > the > next project :)   I've cut 3" thick 6000 series on a table saw with a  > cheap > carbide blade.  Use WD-40 or other cutting oil and go slow.  I cut 3/16,  > 5000 > series with the table saw, circular saws, routers, cut out tools, etc.  > Anything > with a carbide blade.  There are photos on my web site under "Putting the > Hull Together"  www.submarineboat.com > > For the group:  Has anyone used a CNC plasma table for building a steel or > aluminum boat and was it worth the investment? > > Thanks --Doug > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:  > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > |
9349|9160|2005-10-26 19:03:14|Earl|Re: Dgst1338-WantedBoatTrailer|Sounds great -- how would you implement the plan for 200 million citizens?   ----- Original Message ----- From: "edward_stoneuk" <tedstone@...> To: <origamiboats@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2005 7:41 AM Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Dgst1338-WantedBoatTrailer   > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "seeratlas" <seeratlas@y...> > wrote: > > > > I'd be interested in who you guys think is the paragon of societal > > virtue? No foolin, I'm really curious as to which society you think > > has done it right. > > Seer, > > There is a place that you can visit in your origamiboat called > Tikopeia.  It is one of the eastern outer islands of the Solomon > Islands in the western Pacific.  A year or two ago Tikopeia was > reported on the BBC news as being in the centre of a cyclone and, > because the population was living in beachside leaf house villages > it was feared that everyone would have been drowned in the tidal > surge at the eye of the cyclone.  Several days later when a long > distance reconnaisance plane flew over the island the TV crew saw > the villages partially submerged in the sand and feared the worst, > but folks where seen standing and looking up at the plane.  When a > rescue boat finally arrived it found that no one had drowned. > Because cyclones had happened before in the time before come, the > island chiefs had, over generations, maintained water and provisions > in caves in the hill on the island.  When the cyclone came the whole > population moved to the caves and sat out the storm.  This is the > most impressive  example I know of a society having the intelligence > and cohesion to plan successfully for a disaster. > Regards, > Ted > > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > |
9350|9350|2005-10-26 19:33:18|Dan McKee|Cutting and welding aluminum|Have cut quite a few thousand feet of aluminum with many different  saw blades. You can spend a lot of money for a 36 or more tooth  skill saw blade and cut ok. You can use normal wood construction  blades and be a safety hazzard to yourself and everyone around you  as most grab, load up, or both, or you can buy the cheap renovation  type contractor blades with 10 teeth which are made for cutting  through nails when doing reconstruction. They work so well because  they have a metal depth regulating land in front of the carbide  tooth which prevents them from digging in and taking too much at  once. The carbides are also backed up better than many other types  of blades. They even allow you to carve out odd shapes. Mostly I use  5052 and 6061 aluminum and 5356 wire. The harder 6061 cuts better as  the chips shear cleanly and don't load up the blade at all. The 5052  cuts well but don't try to cut too fast on 1/8 or thinner as it can  grab even with the renovation type blade. I've used this type of  blade for aluminum for thiry years and have never had a problem  finding them at any building resource outlet. Others mentioning  turning up the voltage are right. Get it humming. Don't think it  will be easier to contol if you keep the speed down or use smaller  wire. On 3/16" I run 200 amps and 600 inches of wire per minute with  0.035 wire. If you forget the ground clamp you run a bunch of wire  out with just a sqeeze of the trigger. Check your gas flow.  Depending on air movement I use between ten and fifteen cubic feet  per hour. If you get black around the welds, shield better or try a  little more flow. Best to get yourself set with a clear range of  motion for the weld you intend to make. When you sqeeze the trigger  anything but putting the metal right where it belongs can get ugly  at the best speeds for aluminum with wire. Aluminum is really easy  to weld and make look great with just a little practice. Good luck.|
9351|9198|2005-10-26 19:39:09|gschnell|Re: Marinizing an engine|Rich Glad to hear it is running well. It sounds pretty much like what I have done. I haven't totaled my costs yet, but expect it will be lower. Not as fancy an install, I suspect. Gord   richytill wrote:   >  Engine folks, > > > Here is a cost breakdown, by the year, on installing a VW 16D engine > with a Borg Warner 71c transmission.  Year 1: $1679.03; year 2: > $2402.80; year 3: $1497.50; year 4: $1007.27--this should total > $6586.60.  This includes all the anti freeze; oil coolers; hoses; > clamps; 2 racor fuel filters; prop and spare prop; gaskets; timing > belt; glow plugs; making the flywheel assy'; external filters; > exhhaust system and every little nut, bolt, gasket, morse control > cable, with prop shaft, stuffing box etc. > > I have been motoring for around 70 hours now and am pleased with the > system--performance is as predicted from calculations (7.2 knts @3200 > rpm),parts are affordable and easy to come by.  The engine is limited > to 3300 rpm for peak volumetric efficiency.  Manifold is cooled by > bilge blower fan exiting above underwater exhaust anti-siphon loop. > Starter must be protected with an aluminum heat shield.  rt > > > > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "T & D CAIN" <thcain@o...> wrote: > > > > > Gord, Unfortunately the people who were responsible for > investigating or > > removing the engine from the boat damaged the Bowman combination > > heatexchanger/manifold/head tank, which is a model VW150 and is > allegedly > > still available new as are all the parts. > > The damage is to both ends of the cast alloy section which houses > the tube > > stack. About 6 tubes in the stack have been indented as a result. > Number one > > cylinder exhaust stub flange was also damaged. I suppose the > casting could > > be repaired, but those tubes would be a pain to replace or fix as > they are > > silver brazed to the header ends of the stack. As you probably > know, the > > neoprene end caps need to fit and seal both the alloy ends and the > tube > > stack headers. > > I can take some photos of the parts if required. > > This model heat exchanger is identical to mine. > > I had a look in the top of the camshaft case and the damn thing > looked like > > new! Apparently the engine was seized (#3 cylinder) and a A$12000 > Yanmar was > > installed by the new owner. > > I stripped most easily removable bits including the damper drive > which > > looked new --- I should have just taken the whole engine as it was > headed > > for the tip. > > Terry > > -----Original Message----- > > From:      origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:origamiboats@yahoogroups.com] On > > Behalf Of gschnell > > Sent:      Monday, 24 October 2005 03:06 > > To:      origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > Subject:      Re: [origamiboats] Marinizing an engine > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > >    +  Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web. > >    +  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >       origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > >    +  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of >      Service. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- >    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]|
9352|9198|2005-10-26 19:41:17|gschnell|Re: Marinizing an engine|Henri Mine is a turbo, but I have the naturally aspirated manifolds as well and will run those to avoid the heat of the turbo. Gord   Henri Naths wrote:   >  Hi Richard > Nice to here from you concerning vw.( I am assuming a16d is 1600 cc > non turbo ) Do you have stats on per hr fuel consumption as per rpm > range? > Is there a reason you chose non turbo other than the availability > factor? > Thanks > H. > >   ----- Original Message ----- >   From: richytill >   To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com >   Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2005 10:25 AM >   Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Marinizing an engine > > >   Engine folks, > > >   Here is a cost breakdown, by the year, on installing a VW 16D engine > >   with a Borg Warner 71c transmission.  Year 1: $1679.03; year 2: >   $2402.80; year 3: $1497.50; year 4: $1007.27--this should total >   $6586.60.  This includes all the anti freeze; oil coolers; hoses; >   clamps; 2 racor fuel filters; prop and spare prop; gaskets; timing >   belt; glow plugs; making the flywheel assy'; external filters; >   exhhaust system and every little nut, bolt, gasket, morse control >   cable, with prop shaft, stuffing box etc. > >   I have been motoring for around 70 hours now and am pleased with the > >   system--performance is as predicted from calculations (7.2 knts > @3200 >   rpm),parts are affordable and easy to come by.  The engine is > limited >   to 3300 rpm for peak volumetric efficiency.  Manifold is cooled by >   bilge blower fan exiting above underwater exhaust anti-siphon loop. >   Starter must be protected with an aluminum heat shield.  rt > > > > > > >   --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "T & D CAIN" <thcain@o...> > wrote: >   > >   > Gord, Unfortunately the people who were responsible for >   investigating or >   > removing the engine from the boat damaged the Bowman combination >   > heatexchanger/manifold/head tank, which is a model VW150 and is >   allegedly >   > still available new as are all the parts. >   > The damage is to both ends of the cast alloy section which houses >   the tube >   > stack. About 6 tubes in the stack have been indented as a result. >   Number one >   > cylinder exhaust stub flange was also damaged. I suppose the >   casting could >   > be repaired, but those tubes would be a pain to replace or fix as >   they are >   > silver brazed to the header ends of the stack. As you probably >   know, the >   > neoprene end caps need to fit and seal both the alloy ends and the > >   tube >   > stack headers. >   > I can take some photos of the parts if required. >   > This model heat exchanger is identical to mine. >   > I had a look in the top of the camshaft case and the damn thing >   looked like >   > new! Apparently the engine was seized (#3 cylinder) and a A$12000 >   Yanmar was >   > installed by the new owner. >   > I stripped most easily removable bits including the damper drive >   which >   > looked new --- I should have just taken the whole engine as it was > >   headed >   > for the tip. >   > Terry >   > -----Original Message----- >   > From: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com >   [mailto:origamiboats@yahoogroups.com] On >   > Behalf Of gschnell >   > Sent: Monday, 24 October 2005 03:06 >   > To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com >   > Subject: Re: [origamiboats] Marinizing an engine >   > > > > > > > > >   To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com >   To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com >   Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > SPONSORED LINKS >      British columbia canada       Vancouver island      Yacht      Victoria bc   > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > >    +  Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web. > >    +  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >       origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > >    +  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of >      Service. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- >    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]|
9353|9350|2005-10-26 20:02:51|djackson99@aol.com|Re: Cutting and welding aluminum|Thanks a million for the welding advice, both you and Gary!.  I wish I had  posted here sooner. I will try it out this weekend and let you know.   ---Doug   www.submarineboat.com   [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]|
9354|9354|2005-10-26 20:06:14|tazmannusa|cutting and welding aluminum|Im not sure if this applies to a regular mig gun or not but I have a  cobramatic and theres deferent tips for spray ark or short ark welding  on aluminum the spray ark tip is quite a bit shorter, resesed back in  the nozzle and allso the tips have an extra .005 clearance for the  aluminum wire vs steel wire. I havnt used it on aluminum yet so I cant  tell you how well it workes, the only spray ark welding I have don was  with my little miller spool gun running .030 wire on .050 aluminum  sheet and that worked good|
9355|9354|2005-10-26 20:12:33|Gary H. Lucas|Re: cutting and welding aluminum|Yes, the shorter tips can provide more shielding.  That's a real good idea  on outside corners, and when working outside.  However on inside corners the  arc may be too long and you won't get good welds.  Gary H. Lucas   ----- Original Message -----  From: "tazmannusa" <tazmann@...> To: <origamiboats@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2005 8:06 PM Subject: [origamiboats] cutting and welding aluminum   > Im not sure if this applies to a regular mig gun or not but I have a > cobramatic and theres deferent tips for spray ark or short ark welding > on aluminum the spray ark tip is quite a bit shorter, resesed back in > the nozzle and allso the tips have an extra .005 clearance for the > aluminum wire vs steel wire. I havnt used it on aluminum yet so I cant > tell you how well it workes, the only spray ark welding I have don was > with my little miller spool gun running .030 wire on .050 aluminum > sheet and that worked good > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:  > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > |
9356|9354|2005-10-26 20:39:50|tom|Re: cutting and welding aluminum|Youre right , I haddnt thought about that but I had the same problem with a  new miller mig that I bought I was doing a bounch if inside corner welding  with it and the tip didnt stick out far enough so it wouldnt weld right, I  tryed to buy longer tips from miller but they didnt make any so I came home  took a hacksaw cut the nozzle back 3/8" and then it welded ok. Finished job  and sold that welder  ----- Original Message -----  From: "Gary H. Lucas" <gary.lucas@...> To: <origamiboats@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2005 5:12 PM Subject: Re: [origamiboats] cutting and welding aluminum   > Yes, the shorter tips can provide more shielding.  That's a real good idea > on outside corners, and when working outside.  However on inside corners  > the > arc may be too long and you won't get good welds. > > Gary H. Lucas > > ----- Original Message -----  > From: "tazmannusa" <tazmann@...> > To: <origamiboats@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2005 8:06 PM > Subject: [origamiboats] cutting and welding aluminum > > >> Im not sure if this applies to a regular mig gun or not but I have a >> cobramatic and theres deferent tips for spray ark or short ark welding >> on aluminum the spray ark tip is quite a bit shorter, resesed back in >> the nozzle and allso the tips have an extra .005 clearance for the >> aluminum wire vs steel wire. I havnt used it on aluminum yet so I cant >> tell you how well it workes, the only spray ark welding I have don was >> with my little miller spool gun running .030 wire on .050 aluminum >> sheet and that worked good >> >> >> >> >> >> >> To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com >> To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: >> origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com >> Yahoo! Groups Links >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:  > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > |
9357|9354|2005-10-26 20:57:38|Gary H. Lucas|Re: cutting and welding aluminum|They make V tips too, so you can really shield in a corner.  Good when it is  windy, but hard to see what you are doing.  Gary H. Lucas   ----- Original Message -----  From: "tom" <tazmann@...> To: <origamiboats@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2005 8:39 PM Subject: Re: [origamiboats] cutting and welding aluminum   > Youre right , I haddnt thought about that but I had the same problem with  > a > new miller mig that I bought I was doing a bounch if inside corner welding > with it and the tip didnt stick out far enough so it wouldnt weld right, I > tryed to buy longer tips from miller but they didnt make any so I came  > home > took a hacksaw cut the nozzle back 3/8" and then it welded ok. Finished  > job > and sold that welder > ----- Original Message -----  > From: "Gary H. Lucas" <gary.lucas@...> > To: <origamiboats@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2005 5:12 PM > Subject: Re: [origamiboats] cutting and welding aluminum > > >> Yes, the shorter tips can provide more shielding.  That's a real good  >> idea >> on outside corners, and when working outside.  However on inside corners >> the >> arc may be too long and you won't get good welds. >> >> Gary H. Lucas >> >> ----- Original Message -----  >> From: "tazmannusa" <tazmann@...> >> To: <origamiboats@yahoogroups.com> >> Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2005 8:06 PM >> Subject: [origamiboats] cutting and welding aluminum >> >> >>> Im not sure if this applies to a regular mig gun or not but I have a >>> cobramatic and theres deferent tips for spray ark or short ark welding >>> on aluminum the spray ark tip is quite a bit shorter, resesed back in >>> the nozzle and allso the tips have an extra .005 clearance for the >>> aluminum wire vs steel wire. I havnt used it on aluminum yet so I cant >>> tell you how well it workes, the only spray ark welding I have don was >>> with my little miller spool gun running .030 wire on .050 aluminum >>> sheet and that worked good >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com >>> To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: >>> origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com >>> Yahoo! Groups Links >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com >> To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: >> origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com >> Yahoo! Groups Links >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > > > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:  > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > |
9358|9278|2005-10-26 21:03:20|kendall|Re: welder and plasma cutters for aluminum construction?|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Jon & Wanda(Tink)" <windyjon@m...> wrote:  > > That would be a NON-CARBIDE blade 18-24 tooth combo blade put in the  > saw backwards safty glasses and ear protection as weld as good gloves.  > Workes good on Alum if taken slow and light gage steel as well. on  > steel buildings we would cut a stack of corrigated steel panels at a  > time but it wore the blades out fast. It is best to start the cut at a  > outside edge and cut into the sheet. >  > Jon >      Worked in metal roofing, architectural steel, pole buildings for many years, and the backwards blade trick works nice if you have a non-carbide blade    second best is to use a cheap plywood blade, the type that has the small almost blunt teeth.   both ways work best on sheet metal, when cutting thicker aluminum, use a regular high tooth count blade, (40 teeth or better)and set it up so it barely makes it through the bottom of the material and cut slow, you don't want the blade to go all the way through and cut at 90degrees to the surface, more of a scraping action, more like this: 0_ instead of this: 0- blades last a long time like that.   Carbide blades running backwards lose the teeth too easily to be useable for long.     Ken.|
9359|9354|2005-10-26 21:32:45|tom|cutting and welding aluminum|Ive seen the V tips but Ive never tryed one, now I use  tweaco gun with a sliding nozzle and I can adjust on the fly, just wish I could adjust wire speed from gun then Id be in hog heven.  I run my wire feed off a lincoln diesel welder with CV tap and it has me kinda spoiled , it keeps the voltage the same but it varys the amp to what is needed you can run from a 3/8 to an 1-1/2 stickout and it dont care as long as the sheilding gas is there. the only problem is when your crawled in some awkward posision and you make the mistake of sticking the tip to the work it cranks out about 350 amps and it will get your attension real quick  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]|
9360|9360|2005-10-27 00:43:40|jericoera|pyro ceramic glass|For you wood stove makers, the actual glass that is commonly used is  pyro ceramic and it is darn good glass. Forthe size of stove you would  be fabricating, you wouldn't need much of the glass.   Glass is a poor insulator--it throws the heat like you wouldn't  believe--highly recommend it.   Carl M.|
9361|9361|2005-10-27 01:16:04|jericoera|FREE woodstove plans attached|http://www.lincolnelectric.com/knowledge/articles/content/icefishing_st ove.asp  Check out above link-simple stove with materials list and procedure.  Looks like it would work well enough on a boat if vented properly with  air intake and chimney.  Carl M.|
9362|9160|2005-10-27 05:43:30|edward_stoneuk|Re: Dgst1338-WantedBoatTrailer now disaster management|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Earl" <eb3br2ba@h...> wrote:  > > Sounds great -- how would you implement the plan for 200 million   citizens?  >   Earl, Call in FEMA?  To be fair a disaster affecting 200 million people  would mean that the "GAME OVER" light would start flashing pretty  quick.  People with origamiboats would have a better chance than most  of escaping. Regards, Ted|
9363|9160|2005-10-27 08:32:31|Jerry Scovel|Re: Dgst1338-WantedBoatTrailer now disaster management|A refuge is already being planned, it is to be built at 140 W and the equator. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/libertarianisland/   on 10/27/05 4:40 AM, edward_stoneuk at tedstone@... wrote:   --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Earl" <eb3br2ba@h...> wrote: > > Sounds great -- how would you implement the plan for 200 million citizens? >  Earl, Call in FEMA?  To be fair a disaster affecting 200 million people would mean that the "GAME OVER" light would start flashing pretty quick.  People with origamiboats would have a better chance than most of escaping. Regards, Ted      To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com    SPONSORED LINKS         British columbia canada <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=British+columbia+canada&w1=British+colu mbia+canada&w2=Vancouver+island&w3=Yacht&w4=Victoria+bc&c=4&s=79&.sig=9R67WC gMr5OvBLa-xHHyGA> Vancouver island <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Vancouver+island&w1=British+columbia+ca nada&w2=Vancouver+island&w3=Yacht&w4=Victoria+bc&c=4&s=79&.sig=yL5WOtgPnpYAm d1P5N16cw> Yacht  <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Yacht&w1=British+columbia+canada&w2=Van couver+island&w3=Yacht&w4=Victoria+bc&c=4&s=79&.sig=VvQDFUjkrcc6EJ4xXP0vjg> Victoria bc  <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Victoria+bc&w1=British+columbia+canada& w2=Vancouver+island&w3=Yacht&w4=Victoria+bc&c=4&s=79&.sig=QTHu1FWCcMWsTCz7vG yGdg>          YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS   Visit your group "origamiboats <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats> " on the web.     To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:  origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <mailto:origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>    Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
9364|9198|2005-10-27 14:54:22|richytill|Re: Marinizing an engine|Henri, non turbo means less expense and less complicated.  I have  tried to keep thing simple--the turbo would be one more system to  maintain.  I need to check through the log book more carefully but we  came from Pender Harbour to Gibsons Landing and Burrard bridge to  Long Bay Gambier on around 3.5 L per hour(@ 2100--2500 rpm) as far as  I can tell.  I need to refine my sounding stick and average out the  records more to give a more accurate consumption rate.  This is with  a Campbell sailor prop' and that is better progress than the previous  Michigan prop.  Speed varies according to conditions but is good at  5.8 knts where the hull slips along easy.  rt        --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Henri Naths" <c_hnaths@t...>  wrote:  > > Hi Richard  > Nice to here from you concerning vw.( I am assuming a16d is 1600 cc   non turbo ) Do you have stats on per hr fuel consumption as per rpm  range?   > Is there a reason you chose non turbo other than the availability   factor?  > Thanks   > H. >  >   ----- Original Message -----  >   From: richytill  >   To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com  >   Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2005 10:25 AM >   Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Marinizing an engine >  >  >   Engine folks,  >  >  >   Here is a cost breakdown, by the year, on installing a VW 16D   engine   >   with a Borg Warner 71c transmission.  Year 1: $1679.03; year 2:  >   $2402.80; year 3: $1497.50; year 4: $1007.27--this should total  >   $6586.60.  This includes all the anti freeze; oil coolers; hoses;  >   clamps; 2 racor fuel filters; prop and spare prop; gaskets;   timing   >   belt; glow plugs; making the flywheel assy'; external filters;  >   exhhaust system and every little nut, bolt, gasket, morse control  >   cable, with prop shaft, stuffing box etc. >  >   I have been motoring for around 70 hours now and am pleased with   the   >   system--performance is as predicted from calculations (7.2 knts   @3200   >   rpm),parts are affordable and easy to come by.  The engine is   limited   >   to 3300 rpm for peak volumetric efficiency.  Manifold is cooled   by   >   bilge blower fan exiting above underwater exhaust anti-siphon   loop.    >   Starter must be protected with an aluminum heat shield.  rt >  >  >  >  >  >  >   --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "T & D CAIN" <thcain@o...>   wrote:  >   > >   > Gord, Unfortunately the people who were responsible for  >   investigating or >   > removing the engine from the boat damaged the Bowman combination >   > heatexchanger/manifold/head tank, which is a model VW150 and is  >   allegedly >   > still available new as are all the parts. >   > The damage is to both ends of the cast alloy section which   houses   >   the tube >   > stack. About 6 tubes in the stack have been indented as a   result.   >   Number one >   > cylinder exhaust stub flange was also damaged. I suppose the  >   casting could >   > be repaired, but those tubes would be a pain to replace or fix   as   >   they are >   > silver brazed to the header ends of the stack. As you probably  >   know, the >   > neoprene end caps need to fit and seal both the alloy ends and   the   >   tube >   > stack headers. >   > I can take some photos of the parts if required. >   > This model heat exchanger is identical to mine. >   > I had a look in the top of the camshaft case and the damn thing  >   looked like >   > new! Apparently the engine was seized (#3 cylinder) and a   A$12000   >   Yanmar was >   > installed by the new owner. >   > I stripped most easily removable bits including the damper   drive   >   which >   > looked new --- I should have just taken the whole engine as it   was   >   headed >   > for the tip. >   > Terry >   > -----Original Message----- >   > From: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com  >   [mailto:origamiboats@yahoogroups.com] On >   > Behalf Of gschnell >   > Sent: Monday, 24 October 2005 03:06 >   > To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com >   > Subject: Re: [origamiboats] Marinizing an engine >   > >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >   To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com >   To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-  unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com   >   Yahoo! Groups Links >  >  >  >     >  >  >  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > |
9365|9365|2005-10-28 03:20:51|sae140|Viable alternatives to grit-blasting ?|A friend of mine has just finished a non-origami build, and  had a fairly easy time when it came to painting the hull.   This was achieved by buying wheel-abraded pre-primed steel  (a rare and relatively expensive commodity in Britain) and  building under cover.  This has got me thinking (yet again) about alternatives to  grit-blasting, which I think most people would agree is a  messy, noisy - and for those of us who build in our own  back-yards - a downright anti-social activity.  So, whilst  agreeing without doubt that grit-blasting produces the best  possible surface to take paint - is there an acceptable alternative ?    Ok - much depends on the state of the steel - so let's  assume we're talking about preparing weathered new steel,  rather than the crumbling surface of some old rust-bucket  which demands the attention of a chipping hammer and/or  needle-gun. Would 'wiping over' the surface of weathered new steel with  an angle-grinder be acceptable, or even brushing with one  of those new-fangled composite abrasive wheels ?   Ok - these would leave numerous tiny pits behind which  could then be treated with phosphoric acid - but what about  the surface quality itself ?  I suspect most people would say that this kind of surface  is simply too smooth to take paint adequately - but hang on  a moment - let's reconsider the surface produced by wheel- abrading.  The recycled shot of a wheel-abrader produces a *very*  smooth surface and, although 'as delivered' this kind of  pre-primed steel is very easy to scratch (this might be a  reflection of the softness of the primer used, rather than  it's surface adhesion ?), such steel preparation *is*  generally considered as acceptable to take further primer  and subsequent paint systems.  Any thoughts/comments - other than repeating the "grit- blasting is best" mantra (which no sensible experienced  steel worker would disagree with) .... ?  Colin|
9366|9160|2005-10-28 07:46:20|edward_stoneuk|Re: Dgst1338-WantedBoatTrailer now disaster management|Jerry Scovel <stcfarms@n...> wrote:  > > A refuge is already being planned, it is to be built at 140 W and the > equator. > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/libertarianisland/   Jerry, If the refuge island becomes the disaster area or the rats take  control of the cheese counter then we'll need our origamiboats. Regards, Ted|
9367|9365|2005-10-28 07:58:15|Gerd|Re: Viable alternatives to grit-blasting ?|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "sae140" <colinpowell@f...> wrote:   > Any thoughts/comments - other than repeating the "grit- > blasting is best" mantra (which no sensible experienced  > steel worker would disagree with) .... ?   Colin, I gor a fair amout of that in the thread "sandblasting - or? I  started on boatbuilding net  http://boatdesign.net/forums/showthread.php?t=7518 sure it's best, but...  still not clear what might be second best.  But for sure, BLASTING IS BEST!!!! boats we balsted 25 years ago and  painted with epoxy zink are still as new.  Having said that:  I think there are several issues, that one or all might make it  difficult or even completely  unaccetably expensive to blast, noise,  dirt, annoyance for neighbours, availability of equipment and local  protective laws. Also, from experience, the problem of logistics and timing -  personally I would find it very difficult indeed to get myself  organized to have a nice clean weather period, all stuff on site and a  holiday that fits. Anything goes wrong, all the above problems are  multiplied, i have to start over again, bother people twice, maybe  replace sand lost and so on. The need to do it in one go, a a fixed  and pre-planned moment is maybe the most difficult part for me, hiring  it out is too expensive and I would not be sure of the result if I do  not do all the nooks and crannies myself - if I pay for blasted I  would really want it PERECT.  So far what I find what MIGHT be the next best approach:  - Do it in parts, as time and weather permits. - Brush with electric wirebrush all flat surfaces. - Clean all thouroughly with high pressure washer - Add grit nozzle to washer and do just the corners and welds (have  never tried that, no idea how much sand you would need, or what type  of washer etc) - Degrease, etch (?) - then choose paint system, for the moment I tend to Rust Bullet or POR15 type systems, expensive but from reading it looks as if it has  good abrasicve resistance. Alternatives might be zink paints. - Be prepared and willing to eventually blast the outsides some years  later, in some place where this can be done easily near a quay, or for  smaller money   Gerd The Yago Project at http://www.justmueller.com/boats/|
9368|9160|2005-10-28 08:39:06|Jerry Scovel|Re: Dgst1338-WantedBoatTrailer now disaster management|The doldrums are not known for big storms. The island will be built of thousands of boats and easy enough to take apart in an emergency, think of it as a floating marina.  on 10/28/05 6:45 AM, edward_stoneuk at tedstone@... wrote:  Jerry Scovel <stcfarms@n...> wrote:  > > A refuge is already being planned, it is to be built at 140 W and the > equator. > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/libertarianisland/   Jerry, If the refuge island becomes the disaster area or the rats take control of the cheese counter then we'll need our origamiboats. Regards, Ted      To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com      YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS   Visit your group "origamiboats <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats> " on the web.     To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:  origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <mailto:origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>    Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]|
9369|9332|2005-10-28 11:08:29|SHANE ROTHWELL|Okume Plywood|I used to have problems finding decent plywood in Asia. The stuff from the usa was crap, Indonesian quality depended on the factory with a wide range from lowsy to exellent. The Canadian & German was exellent.  The trick was in the glue provided the stuff was laid up without voids = dependant on the general quality of the facory.   The test for glue is to take a small sample (2" x 2") & boil it in water for 2 hours. let it cool. if it does not delaminate it's fine.   Voids are not that big a deal & they can be filled with epoxy using a syringe (chuck the needle as it's too small to force the epoxy through.  If you really want to be sure that no delamination will happen, use Everdure, a Kiwi product. Its just an epoxy resin that you thin very heavily. 1st coat is thinned about 90% (yes, 9 parts thinner to one part epoxy), let dry. next coat is thinned about 70%, 3rd is about 40%, final coat is thinned about 10%. it's a hasstle but the result is like petrefied wood & the water can not get at the wood, the glue, nothing. it must be overcoated for UV protection.  At the same time, with a steel boat is any of this needed as steelies are famous for being very dry... so after going through all this on a plastic boat I plan to use "whatever" ply & yellow carpenters glue & staple togeter w/ pneumatic stapler, then paint with decent oil/enamel paint   	  	 		 __________________________________________________________  Find your next car at http://autos.yahoo.ca|
9370|9370|2005-10-28 11:16:20|Ray|Rusted steel boat - opinions and discussion|Folks -   This post has a two-fold purpose: 1) To get an immediate idea of the viability of repairing this boat: http://www.ebay.com - search on item # 4585810569  this boat is close to me, and looks like something I'd like.  I know  NOTHING about steel boats - but, w/the old muscle-cars I've restored,  if you had rust ONE spot - you generally had it everywhere, and had  to completely strip EVERYTHING to be certain that you got it all.  From the photos of this boat, it looks like the rust is mainly in the  skin - I've got no idea what it might take to repair what's found,  and to find the OTHER areas that might require attention.   2) "How Long" do we expect a light-steel boat to last with a modicum  of care? How "fixable" are the origami-steel boats if they do start  to rust?    Thanks!   Ray Kimbro|
9371|9135|2005-10-28 11:45:49|will jones|Re: Wanted Boat Trailer for 37 foot Steel Sailboat|I've built a couple of trailers to haul fixed keel boats.  One was for a SanJuan 7.7 (3,200lbs displacement) and the other was for a 33' Morgan IOR (9,800 lbs displacement).  Both of these can be viewed at http://photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/lakemonroesailing .  You will have to join the group.  The SanJuan trailer can be seen in the boatlift photos and the morgan in the trailer photos.  There have been several changes to the SJ trailer, including the addition of a keel guide and a 12' tower with electric winch for loading.  I launch and haul the SJ every year with my Durango and the trailer.  As soon as I finish restoring the Morgan, I'll launch it with 40' tow straps.  I saw a guy do this in Jackson, Wy with a 30' Pearson.  Works well.   I designed and built both of these trailers and I have hauled the SanJuan over 3,000 miles in trips to Traverse City, MI.  I had the Morgan hauled with an F500 from Chicago to Bloomington IN.  You could use a F300 with a class V hitch with no problem.  Both trailers are launching trailers, ie, the boats can be launched from any ramp that gives one 5' of water.        Jim Douglas <conceptconversion@...> wrote: I need to move my steel hulled sail boat from Calgary to the Coast.   Quotes obtained from the boat moving fraturnity of pirates are just  insane.  As such I am looking into the idea of buying a highway  capable boat trailer to move her myself.  She is 37 feet overall with her 4 foot bow sprit and weighs about  10,000 lbs.  She has a beam of 11 feet and stands 11 foot high from  her fin keel to the cabin roof. As I am still in the money saving  mode, my timing is entirely open ended at this point.    Given the "do-it-yourself" nature of this group, I am also wondering  if any of you know where one might get a design or plan to construct  such a trailer myself?   As I intend to convert this boat to a twin  keel configuration, ultimately such a trailer would have to be  desiged with this in mind.    I think that any money I throw at constructing a self built trailer  now, I'll probably recoup later in savings on future moves or when I  eventually sell it, whereas money donated to them boat moving guys  is just simply gone.   Does anyone have any leads or thoughts?  Jim Douglas North Vancouver, B.C.       To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com     --------------------------------- YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS        Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web.        To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:  origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com        Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.    ---------------------------------     Valhalla Morgan 33T IOR, Hull 24 Bloomington, IN 		 ---------------------------------  Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click.    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]|
9372|9372|2005-10-28 13:45:40|edward_stoneuk|Tank Breathers|All tanks need breathers higher than the fill point.  Diesel and  holding tank contents smell.  Sea water getting into the diesel or  freshwater tanks via green water breaking over the boat and down  through the breather is not wanted.  I was thinking of using an  inverted U tube 18" or so off the deck.  But with 2 water tanks and 2  diesel tanks and one holding tank that is a bit of a clutter.  Does  anyone have any ideas on breathers? Regards, Ted|
9373|9370|2005-10-28 13:48:28|mkriley@fuse.net|Re: Rusted steel boat - opinions and discussion|I have been in the boat repair biz since the 70's this boat has too much rust for a conventional resoration. there will be many places just ready to go  that you will never find till a year later. that said if the boat runs it would be a ex. candidate for the alan vaties method of glassing. look it up on the web. new life to old steel boats! i HAVE SEEN MANY GOOD EXAMPLES OF THIS METHOD. thanks mike|
9374|9370|2005-10-28 14:06:17|cirejay|Re: Rusted steel boat - opinions and discussion|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, <mkriley@f...> wrote:  > that said if the boat runs it would be a ex. candidate for the alan   vaties method... Mike, are you sure of the spelling?  I didn't get one hit when I  googled his name. Thanks, eric S/V Nebaras|
9375|9370|2005-10-28 14:21:51|Michael Collins|Re: Rusted steel boat - opinions and discussion|mike, Is the Alan Vaties spelled correctly.  I googled this and find nothing.  Ray, I  had just seen this boat on ebay a few minutes before reading your  post.  I was consider if a  vacuum controlled infussion or resin  infussion approach might be appropriate.  The shape is formed either  from inside or outside.  The hull is sandwiched between sheets of  plastic and the edges of the plastic must be sealed against the metal  air tight.  A vacuum is pulled on the fiberglass mat between the  plastic.  Then resin is allowed into the space of the vacuum.  I have not found anyone who has used this on a hull, but like to hear of  someones actual experience.   Michael   Michael    mkriley@... wrote:   > I have been in the boat repair biz since the 70's > this boat has too much rust for a conventional resoration. > there will be many places just ready to go  that you will never find  > till a year later. > that said if the boat runs it would be a ex. candidate for the alan  > vaties method of > glassing. look it up on the web. new life to old steel boats! i HAVE  > SEEN MANY GOOD EXAMPLES OF THIS METHOD. > thanks > mike > > > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:  > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > >     *  Visit your group "origamiboats >       <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats>" on the web. >         >     *  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >        origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com >       <mailto:origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe> >         >     *  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of >       Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>. > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > .      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]|
9376|9370|2005-10-28 15:07:10|Bill Jaine|Re: Rusted steel boat - opinions and discussion|Try Allan H Vaitses, the fiberglass boat repair manual  published by International marine     Bill   Port Hope. Canada     -----Original Message----- From: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com [mailto:origamiboats@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Michael Collins Sent: 28-Oct-05 2:19 PM To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [origamiboats] Re: Rusted steel boat - opinions and discussion     mike, Is the Alan Vaties spelled correctly.  I googled this and find nothing.  Ray, I  had just seen this boat on ebay a few minutes before reading your  post.  I was consider if a  vacuum controlled infussion or resin  infussion approach might be appropriate.  The shape is formed either  from inside or outside.  The hull is sandwiched between sheets of  plastic and the edges of the plastic must be sealed against the metal  air tight.  A vacuum is pulled on the fiberglass mat between the  plastic.  Then resin is allowed into the space of the vacuum.  I have not found anyone who has used this on a hull, but like to hear of  someones actual experience.   Michael   Michael    mkriley@... wrote:   > I have been in the boat repair biz since the 70's > this boat has too much rust for a conventional resoration. > there will be many places just ready to go  that you will never find  > till a year later. > that said if the boat runs it would be a ex. candidate for the alan  > vaties method of > glassing. look it up on the web. new life to old steel boats! i HAVE  > SEEN MANY GOOD EXAMPLES OF THIS METHOD. > thanks > mike > > > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:  > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > >     *  Visit your group "origamiboats >       <HYPERLINK  "http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats"http://groups.yahoo.com/group/or igamiboats>" on the web.  >         >     *  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >        origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com >  <mailto:origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>  >         >     *  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of >       Service <HYPERLINK  "http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/"http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.  > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > .      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]    To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com      SPONSORED LINKS    HYPERLINK "http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=British+columbia+canada&w1=British+colu mbia+canada&w2=Vancouver+island&w3=Yacht&w4=Victoria+bc&c=4&s=79&.sig=9R67WC gMr5OvBLa-xHHyGA"British columbia canada   HYPERLINK "http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Vancouver+island&w1=British+columbia+ca nada&w2=Vancouver+island&w3=Yacht&w4=Victoria+bc&c=4&s=79&.sig=yL5WOtgPnpYAm d1P5N16cw"Vancouver island   HYPERLINK "http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Yacht&w1=British+columbia+canada&w2=Van couver+island&w3=Yacht&w4=Victoria+bc&c=4&s=79&.sig=VvQDFUjkrcc6EJ4xXP0vjg"Y acht    HYPERLINK "http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Victoria+bc&w1=British+columbia+canada& w2=Vancouver+island&w3=Yacht&w4=Victoria+bc&c=4&s=79&.sig=QTHu1FWCcMWsTCz7vG yGdg"Victoria bc               _____    YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS      *         Visit your group "HYPERLINK "http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats"origamiboats" on the web.     *         To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:  HYPERLINK "mailto:origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe"origami boats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com     *         Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the HYPERLINK "http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/"Yahoo! Terms of Service.         _____     -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.12.5/150 - Release Date: 27/10/2005    --  No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.12.5/150 - Release Date: 27/10/2005     [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]|
9377|9372|2005-10-28 17:27:46|brentswain38|Re: Tank Breathers|I usually put one on each side of the companionway, near the top. I've  led them into the boom gallows but thays a lot of work. You can lead  one breather to two fuel tanks and the nother to two watertanks, and  lead the holding tank one aft up into a radar arch to ge the smell  blowing high overhead.You can put the tubing in before foaming and  they will be burried in foam ,completely out of your way.  I've seen Foulkes 39's with vents in the topsides where they will be  underwater when the boat heels. A friend delivering one from Hawaii to  BC had major problems with that .I guess thats the result of having a  boat built by someone who has never been  to sea.  Best to keep them high and as near as possible to the centreline . Brent  --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "edward_stoneuk" <tedstone@g...>  wrote:  > > All tanks need breathers higher than the fill point.  Diesel and  > holding tank contents smell.  Sea water getting into the diesel or  > freshwater tanks via green water breaking over the boat and down  > through the breather is not wanted.  I was thinking of using an  > inverted U tube 18" or so off the deck.  But with 2 water tanks and   2   > diesel tanks and one holding tank that is a bit of a clutter.  Does  > anyone have any ideas on breathers? > Regards, > Ted > |
9378|9198|2005-10-28 17:31:05|brentswain38|Re: Marinizing an engine|if I were installing an engine again I'd give it several coats of  epoxy tar while it is still clean. The one coat of engine enamel  they give them does little to prevent corrrosion. Especially the oil pan. Brent   --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, gschnell <gschnell@s...> wrote: > > Rich > Glad to hear it is running well. It sounds pretty much like what I  have > done. I haven't totaled my costs yet, but expect it will be lower. > Not as fancy an install, I suspect. > Gord >  >  > richytill wrote: >  > >  Engine folks, > > > > > > Here is a cost breakdown, by the year, on installing a VW 16D  engine > > with a Borg Warner 71c transmission.  Year 1: $1679.03; year 2: > > $2402.80; year 3: $1497.50; year 4: $1007.27--this should total > > $6586.60.  This includes all the anti freeze; oil coolers; hoses; > > clamps; 2 racor fuel filters; prop and spare prop; gaskets;  timing > > belt; glow plugs; making the flywheel assy'; external filters; > > exhhaust system and every little nut, bolt, gasket, morse control > > cable, with prop shaft, stuffing box etc. > > > > I have been motoring for around 70 hours now and am pleased with  the > > system--performance is as predicted from calculations (7.2 knts  @3200 > > rpm),parts are affordable and easy to come by.  The engine is  limited > > to 3300 rpm for peak volumetric efficiency.  Manifold is cooled  by > > bilge blower fan exiting above underwater exhaust anti-siphon  loop. > > Starter must be protected with an aluminum heat shield.  rt > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "T & D CAIN" <thcain@o...>  wrote: > > > > > > > > Gord, Unfortunately the people who were responsible for > > investigating or > > > removing the engine from the boat damaged the Bowman  combination > > > heatexchanger/manifold/head tank, which is a model VW150 and is > > allegedly > > > still available new as are all the parts. > > > The damage is to both ends of the cast alloy section which  houses > > the tube > > > stack. About 6 tubes in the stack have been indented as a  result. > > Number one > > > cylinder exhaust stub flange was also damaged. I suppose the > > casting could > > > be repaired, but those tubes would be a pain to replace or fix  as > > they are > > > silver brazed to the header ends of the stack. As you probably > > know, the > > > neoprene end caps need to fit and seal both the alloy ends and  the > > tube > > > stack headers. > > > I can take some photos of the parts if required. > > > This model heat exchanger is identical to mine. > > > I had a look in the top of the camshaft case and the damn thing > > looked like > > > new! Apparently the engine was seized (#3 cylinder) and a  A$12000 > > Yanmar was > > > installed by the new owner. > > > I stripped most easily removable bits including the damper  drive > > which > > > looked new --- I should have just taken the whole engine as it  was > > headed > > > for the tip. > > > Terry > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From:      origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:origamiboats@yahoogroups.com] On > > > Behalf Of gschnell > > > Sent:      Monday, 24 October 2005 03:06 > > > To:      origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject:      Re: [origamiboats] Marinizing an engine > > > > > > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------- ------ > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > > >    +  Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web. > > > >    +  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > >       origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > >    +  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > >      Service. > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------- ------ > > >  >  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > |
9379|9365|2005-10-28 17:38:15|brentswain38|Re: Viable alternatives to grit-blasting ?|You'd have to do far more than simply wipe it with agrinder. i've  tried that and eventually ended up sandblasting anyway. I use the  grinder for touch up and it works Ok , but the nepoxy sticks no  where near as well as sandblasted or even wheelabraded surfaces for  that matter. Grinding an entire hull would be a horrendouse job.  I once met a guy in Nelson New Zealand who built a steel boat in  Australia , and, hearing that sandblasting was cheaper in New  Zealand , sailed her bare uinpainted rusty steel , to new  Zealand ,where he sandblasted and painted the outside for the first  time. No problem. Brent  --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "sae140" <colinpowell@f...>  wrote:  > > A friend of mine has just finished a non-origami build, and  > had a fairly easy time when it came to painting the hull.   > This was achieved by buying wheel-abraded pre-primed steel  > (a rare and relatively expensive commodity in Britain) and  > building under cover. >  > This has got me thinking (yet again) about alternatives to  > grit-blasting, which I think most people would agree is a  > messy, noisy - and for those of us who build in our own  > back-yards - a downright anti-social activity.  So, whilst  > agreeing without doubt that grit-blasting produces the best  > possible surface to take paint - is there an acceptable > alternative ?   >  > Ok - much depends on the state of the steel - so let's  > assume we're talking about preparing weathered new steel,  > rather than the crumbling surface of some old rust-bucket  > which demands the attention of a chipping hammer and/or  > needle-gun. > Would 'wiping over' the surface of weathered new steel with  > an angle-grinder be acceptable, or even brushing with one  > of those new-fangled composite abrasive wheels ?   > Ok - these would leave numerous tiny pits behind which  > could then be treated with phosphoric acid - but what about  > the surface quality itself ?  > I suspect most people would say that this kind of surface  > is simply too smooth to take paint adequately - but hang on  > a moment - let's reconsider the surface produced by wheel- > abrading.  > The recycled shot of a wheel-abrader produces a *very*  > smooth surface and, although 'as delivered' this kind of  > pre-primed steel is very easy to scratch (this might be a  > reflection of the softness of the primer used, rather than  > it's surface adhesion ?), such steel preparation *is*  > generally considered as acceptable to take further primer  > and subsequent paint systems. >  > Any thoughts/comments - other than repeating the "grit- > blasting is best" mantra (which no sensible experienced  > steel worker would disagree with) .... ? >  > Colin > |
9380|9370|2005-10-28 17:42:12|brentswain38|Re: Rusted steel boat - opinions and discussion|Where there is doubt about the thickness of plate get a centrepunch  and a big ball peen hammer and try to punch  a hole on it. If you  can whack it hard with the centrepunch without making a dent beyond  the normal centrepunch mark, then there is enough steel there. Brent   --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Ray" <raykimbro@y...> wrote: > > Folks -  >  > This post has a two-fold purpose: > 1) To get an immediate idea of the viability of repairing this  boat: > http://www.ebay.com - search on item # 4585810569 >  > this boat is close to me, and looks like something I'd like.  I  know  > NOTHING about steel boats - but, w/the old muscle-cars I've  restored,  > if you had rust ONE spot - you generally had it everywhere, and  had  > to completely strip EVERYTHING to be certain that you got it all.  > From the photos of this boat, it looks like the rust is mainly in  the  > skin - I've got no idea what it might take to repair what's found,  > and to find the OTHER areas that might require attention.  >  > 2) "How Long" do we expect a light-steel boat to last with a  modicum  > of care? How "fixable" are the origami-steel boats if they do  start  > to rust?  >  >  > Thanks!  >  > Ray Kimbro > |
9381|9370|2005-10-28 19:48:11|Courtney Thomas|Re: Rusted steel boat - opinions and discussion|Vaitses, IIRC.  Courtney    On Friday 28 October 2005 14:04, cirejay wrote: > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, <mkriley@f...> wrote: > > that said if the boat runs it would be a ex. candidate for the alan > > vaties method... > Mike, are you sure of the spelling?  I didn't get one hit when I > googled his name. > Thanks, eric S/V Nebaras > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links > > > |
9382|9370|2005-10-28 20:01:42|tom|Re: Rusted steel boat - opinions and discussion|Well I looked at the pictures and that would be just like restoring one of  your old cars, it would have to be completly striped inside and out ,sand  blasted and then start replacing bad sections. If you can weld and fabricate  yourself it could be done, if youre gonna hire it out could end up costing  as mutch or more than new hull,very time cunsuming.  You ask how long a  light steel boat will last, If its built right and painted right to begin  with it would last a lifetime or more with the right care IE painting,  fixing scatches ext. What happens a lot is people buy a boat use the heck  out of it for a few years then they kinda get out of it doing other things  and the boat just sets in slip closed up for years and all the little  repairs turn into big ones. Looks like that might be what happend to that  one.  As far as glassing steel I would vote against it steel expands and  contracks more than glass and you would have a heck of  time keeping in  attached to the steel a 100%, one small area gets loose and you get air  between glass and steel, moisture gets in and youre back to square one  ----- Original Message -----  From: "Ray" <raykimbro@...> To: <origamiboats@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, October 28, 2005 8:15 AM Subject: [origamiboats] Rusted steel boat - opinions and discussion   > Folks - > > This post has a two-fold purpose: > 1) To get an immediate idea of the viability of repairing this boat: > http://www.ebay.com - search on item # 4585810569 > > this boat is close to me, and looks like something I'd like.  I know > NOTHING about steel boats - but, w/the old muscle-cars I've restored, > if you had rust ONE spot - you generally had it everywhere, and had > to completely strip EVERYTHING to be certain that you got it all. > From the photos of this boat, it looks like the rust is mainly in the > skin - I've got no idea what it might take to repair what's found, > and to find the OTHER areas that might require attention. > > 2) "How Long" do we expect a light-steel boat to last with a modicum > of care? How "fixable" are the origami-steel boats if they do start > to rust? > > > Thanks! > > Ray Kimbro > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:  > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > |
9383|9383|2005-10-29 13:08:52|mickeyolaf|Swain 26|If anyone building a Swain 26 is interested in a new never mounted Nico Fico traveller  system complete with track , ends, double car, and blocks let me know. Breaking strength  2500 lbs. Can be cabin top or cockpit mounted. Black anodised finish.|
9384|9135|2005-10-30 22:23:12|Jim Douglas|Re: Wanted Boat Trailer for 37 foot Steel Sailboat|Will   Thanks for your reply.  I knew somebody had to design and build  these things.  I tried your link but unfornately it doesn't work.  Could you try to repost the link?  Much appreciated  JUm Douglas  North Vancouver, B.C.   --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, will jones <morgan33t_ior@y...>  wrote:  > > I've built a couple of trailers to haul fixed keel boats.  One was   for a SanJuan 7.7 (3,200lbs displacement) and the other was for a  33' Morgan IOR (9,800 lbs displacement).  Both of these can be  viewed at http://photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/lakemonroesailing .   You will have to join the group.  The SanJuan trailer can be seen in  the boatlift photos and the morgan in the trailer photos.  There  have been several changes to the SJ trailer, including the addition  of a keel guide and a 12' tower with electric winch for loading.  I  launch and haul the SJ every year with my Durango and the trailer.   As soon as I finish restoring the Morgan, I'll launch it with 40'  tow straps.  I saw a guy do this in Jackson, Wy with a 30' Pearson.   Works well.  >   > I designed and built both of these trailers and I have hauled the   SanJuan over 3,000 miles in trips to Traverse City, MI.  I had the  Morgan hauled with an F500 from Chicago to Bloomington IN.  You  could use a F300 with a class V hitch with no problem.  Both  trailers are launching trailers, ie, the boats can be launched from  any ramp that gives one 5' of water.  >   >   >   >  > Jim Douglas <conceptconversion@t...> wrote: > I need to move my steel hulled sail boat from Calgary to the   Coast.    > Quotes obtained from the boat moving fraturnity of pirates are   just   > insane.  As such I am looking into the idea of buying a highway  > capable boat trailer to move her myself. >  > She is 37 feet overall with her 4 foot bow sprit and weighs about  > 10,000 lbs.  She has a beam of 11 feet and stands 11 foot high   from   > her fin keel to the cabin roof. As I am still in the money saving  > mode, my timing is entirely open ended at this point.   >  > Given the "do-it-yourself" nature of this group, I am also   wondering   > if any of you know where one might get a design or plan to   construct   > such a trailer myself?   As I intend to convert this boat to a   twin   > keel configuration, ultimately such a trailer would have to be  > desiged with this in mind.   >  > I think that any money I throw at constructing a self built   trailer   > now, I'll probably recoup later in savings on future moves or when   I   > eventually sell it, whereas money donated to them boat moving guys  > is just simply gone.  >  > Does anyone have any leads or thoughts? >  > Jim Douglas > North Vancouver, B.C.  >  >  >  >  >  > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-  unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com   >  >  >  > --------------------------------- > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS  >  >  >     Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web. >    >     To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >  origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com >    >     Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of   Service.   >  >  > --------------------------------- >  >  >  >  > Valhalla > Morgan 33T IOR, Hull 24 > Bloomington, IN > 		 > --------------------------------- >  Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click.   >  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > |
9385|9350|2005-10-31 01:25:16|djackson99@aol.com|Re: Cutting and welding aluminum|I only had time this weekend for a few welding test, but I sure like the  direction this is going.  I posted Gary's advice along with a couple of photos of  the results on my web site. It's www.submarineboat.com  Go to "Welding  Aluminum" and then scroll down to "Welding Tips".  Thanks again to Gary and others.   Once I get my welding skills worked out on a boat that is suppose to sink, I  will have to start on a real boat. :)  --Doug   [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]|
9386|9350|2005-10-31 03:46:09|sae140|Re: Cutting and welding aluminum|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, djackson99@a... wrote:  > > web site. It's www.submarineboat.com    > Once I get my welding skills worked out on a boat that is suppose   to sink, I   > will have to start on a real boat. :)  --Doug    Like your site Doug !  It brought back one of my  "4_o'clock_in_the_morning_having_eaten_too_much_cheese_the_night_be fore" ideas: a yacht capable of submerging when bad weather  approaches - breathe through a snorkel mast, and so on.  It would also be neat to submerge just as the harbourmaster  approaches to collect the rent ....  Colin|
9387|9135|2005-10-31 09:35:18|will jones|Re: Wanted Boat Trailer for 37 foot Steel Sailboat|Jim,   Just go to Yahoo Groups and join the lakemonroesailing group.  My mistake was just copying the url for the photos section.  Once you join you can see both trailers.  If you have any questions, please feel free to ask.  Jim Douglas <conceptconversion@...> wrote: Will   Thanks for your reply.  I knew somebody had to design and build  these things.  I tried your link but unfornately it doesn't work.  Could you try to repost the link?  Much appreciated  JUm Douglas  North Vancouver, B.C.   --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, will jones <morgan33t_ior@y...>  wrote:  > > I've built a couple of trailers to haul fixed keel boats.  One was   for a SanJuan 7.7 (3,200lbs displacement) and the other was for a  33' Morgan IOR (9,800 lbs displacement).  Both of these can be  viewed at http://photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/lakemonroesailing .   You will have to join the group.  The SanJuan trailer can be seen in  the boatlift photos and the morgan in the trailer photos.  There  have been several changes to the SJ trailer, including the addition  of a keel guide and a 12' tower with electric winch for loading.  I  launch and haul the SJ every year with my Durango and the trailer.   As soon as I finish restoring the Morgan, I'll launch it with 40'  tow straps.  I saw a guy do this in Jackson, Wy with a 30' Pearson.   Works well.  >   > I designed and built both of these trailers and I have hauled the   SanJuan over 3,000 miles in trips to Traverse City, MI.  I had the  Morgan hauled with an F500 from Chicago to Bloomington IN.  You  could use a F300 with a class V hitch with no problem.  Both  trailers are launching trailers, ie, the boats can be launched from  any ramp that gives one 5' of water.  >   >   >   >  > Jim Douglas <conceptconversion@t...> wrote: > I need to move my steel hulled sail boat from Calgary to the   Coast.    > Quotes obtained from the boat moving fraturnity of pirates are   just   > insane.  As such I am looking into the idea of buying a highway  > capable boat trailer to move her myself. >  > She is 37 feet overall with her 4 foot bow sprit and weighs about  > 10,000 lbs.  She has a beam of 11 feet and stands 11 foot high   from   > her fin keel to the cabin roof. As I am still in the money saving  > mode, my timing is entirely open ended at this point.   >  > Given the "do-it-yourself" nature of this group, I am also   wondering   > if any of you know where one might get a design or plan to   construct   > such a trailer myself?   As I intend to convert this boat to a   twin   > keel configuration, ultimately such a trailer would have to be  > desiged with this in mind.   >  > I think that any money I throw at constructing a self built   trailer   > now, I'll probably recoup later in savings on future moves or when   I   > eventually sell it, whereas money donated to them boat moving guys  > is just simply gone.  >  > Does anyone have any leads or thoughts? >  > Jim Douglas > North Vancouver, B.C.  >  >  >  >  >  > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-  unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com   >  >  >  > --------------------------------- > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS  >  >  >     Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web. >    >     To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >  origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com >    >     Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of   Service.   >  >  > --------------------------------- >  >  >  >  > Valhalla > Morgan 33T IOR, Hull 24 > Bloomington, IN >              > --------------------------------- >  Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click.   >  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >        To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com     SPONSORED LINKS  British columbia canada Vancouver island Victoria bc   --------------------------------- YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS        Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web.        To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:  origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com        Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.    ---------------------------------     Valhalla Morgan 33T IOR, Hull 24 Bloomington, IN 		 ---------------------------------  Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click.    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]|
9388|9388|2005-10-31 09:58:00|Ray|Thanks for the Rusty Boat help|Folks - I appreciate your input - it helped to reasonably temper my  enthusiasm for what might have optimistically been a good project.  The  comments reminded me about what I learned restoring a "nice" '65 Impala  SS - gorgeous interior, 300HP 327, 4 speed - rusty frame, but, "just  under the doors", back quarters, trunk pan gone. 2.5 years, and many  more thousands of dollars than the car was worth, the rust was fixed,  and it didn't look much better than the day I drug it home.   Lot's of busted knuckles, crud in the eyes, time wasted scouring  junkyards/backroads/swap meets for elusive parts - was proud of what  I'd accomplished, but, the $2500 Nova would have been a better buy.   Thanks again for your input - and for the pointer to the "Allan H  Vaitses" method - interesting - but, the surface prep on THAT boat  would be almost as much work as building a new hull.   Ray|
9389|7433|2005-10-31 10:19:54|khooper_fboats|Origamiboats Searchable Archive Updated|The searchable archive has been updated to current as of 10/30/05 and now contains 9,383 messages. This page features an intelligent search engine and there are no advertisements.  http://www.crazyface.net/origamiboats/index.html  Please bookmark this site. A link has been placed in the Links section of the Origamiboats Yahoo Groups web site if you should forget the link.  The archive is updated every two weeks. This message is posted approximately every six weeks.  Regards,  --Ken Hooper|
9390|9135|2005-10-31 11:12:29|gschnell|Re: Wanted Boat Trailer for 37 foot Steel Sailboat|I am a member, and it doesn't load for me, either. Gord   Jim Douglas wrote:   >  Will > > Thanks for your reply.  I knew somebody had to design and build > these things.  I tried your link but unfornately it doesn't work. > > Could you try to repost the link? > > Much appreciated > > JUm Douglas > North Vancouver, B.C. > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, will jones <morgan33t_ior@y...> > wrote: > > > > I've built a couple of trailers to haul fixed keel boats.  One was > for a SanJuan 7.7 (3,200lbs displacement) and the other was for a > 33' Morgan IOR (9,800 lbs displacement).  Both of these can be > viewed at http://photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/lakemonroesailing . > You will have to join the group.  The SanJuan trailer can be seen in > the boatlift photos and the morgan in the trailer photos.  There > have been several changes to the SJ trailer, including the addition > of a keel guide and a 12' tower with electric winch for loading.  I > launch and haul the SJ every year with my Durango and the trailer. > As soon as I finish restoring the Morgan, I'll launch it with 40' > tow straps.  I saw a guy do this in Jackson, Wy with a 30' Pearson. > Works well. > > > > I designed and built both of these trailers and I have hauled the > SanJuan over 3,000 miles in trips to Traverse City, MI.  I had the > Morgan hauled with an F500 from Chicago to Bloomington IN.  You > could use a F300 with a class V hitch with no problem.  Both > trailers are launching trailers, ie, the boats can be launched from > any ramp that gives one 5' of water. > > > > > > > > > > Jim Douglas <conceptconversion@t...> wrote: > > I need to move my steel hulled sail boat from Calgary to the > Coast. > > Quotes obtained from the boat moving fraturnity of pirates are > just > > insane.  As such I am looking into the idea of buying a highway > > capable boat trailer to move her myself. > > > > She is 37 feet overall with her 4 foot bow sprit and weighs about > > 10,000 lbs.  She has a beam of 11 feet and stands 11 foot high > from > > her fin keel to the cabin roof. As I am still in the money saving > > mode, my timing is entirely open ended at this point. > > > > Given the "do-it-yourself" nature of this group, I am also > wondering > > if any of you know where one might get a design or plan to > construct > > such a trailer myself?   As I intend to convert this boat to a > twin > > keel configuration, ultimately such a trailer would have to be > > desiged with this in mind. > > > > I think that any money I throw at constructing a self built > trailer > > now, I'll probably recoup later in savings on future moves or when > I > > eventually sell it, whereas money donated to them boat moving guys > > is just simply gone. > > > > Does anyone have any leads or thoughts? > > > > Jim Douglas > > North Vancouver, B.C. > > > > > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats- > unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > > > > >     Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web. > > > >     To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > >  origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > >     Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > Service. > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > > > > > > > > > Valhalla > > Morgan 33T IOR, Hull 24 > > Bloomington, IN > > > > --------------------------------- > >  Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click. > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > SPONSORED LINKS >      British columbia canada    Vancouver island   Victoria bc   > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > >    +  Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web. > >    +  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >       origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > >    +  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of >      Service. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- >    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]|
9391|9391|2005-10-31 11:51:09|joeearsley|Cruising World mentions Brent Swain, Fanning Island|There is an article in this months Cruising World about Fanning  Island.  There was a Brent Swain boat there and the author mentioned  Brents Book.  There was a picture of the boat in the background.  I  didn't recogize it or the crazy bow sprit.  The BS windlass was there  as well as the typical port arrangement.|
9392|7433|2005-10-31 11:59:57|edward_stoneuk|Re: Origamiboats Searchable Archive Updated|Ken, Thanks for doing the archive.  I had a look through and it was great,  like finding old newspapers in the attic with topics that I had  forgotten. In some cases asked I have the same question more than once  over the years. Reagrds, Ted|
9393|9135|2005-10-31 13:28:40|will jones|Re: Wanted Boat Trailer for 37 foot Steel Sailboat|I just went to the group:  lakemonroesailing and saved a couple of pics.  They are attached.  Seems like it is working for my account.  gschnell <gschnell@...> wrote: I am a member, and it doesn't load for me, either. Gord   Jim Douglas wrote:   >  Will > > Thanks for your reply.  I knew somebody had to design and build > these things.  I tried your link but unfornately it doesn't work. > > Could you try to repost the link? > > Much appreciated > > JUm Douglas > North Vancouver, B.C. > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, will jones <morgan33t_ior@y...> > wrote: > > > > I've built a couple of trailers to haul fixed keel boats.  One was > for a SanJuan 7.7 (3,200lbs displacement) and the other was for a > 33' Morgan IOR (9,800 lbs displacement).  Both of these can be > viewed at http://photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/lakemonroesailing . > You will have to join the group.  The SanJuan trailer can be seen in > the boatlift photos and the morgan in the trailer photos.  There > have been several changes to the SJ trailer, including the addition > of a keel guide and a 12' tower with electric winch for loading.  I > launch and haul the SJ every year with my Durango and the trailer. > As soon as I finish restoring the Morgan, I'll launch it with 40' > tow straps.  I saw a guy do this in Jackson, Wy with a 30' Pearson. > Works well. > > > > I designed and built both of these trailers and I have hauled the > SanJuan over 3,000 miles in trips to Traverse City, MI.  I had the > Morgan hauled with an F500 from Chicago to Bloomington IN.  You > could use a F300 with a class V hitch with no problem.  Both > trailers are launching trailers, ie, the boats can be launched from > any ramp that gives one 5' of water. > > > > > > > > > > Jim Douglas <conceptconversion@t...> wrote: > > I need to move my steel hulled sail boat from Calgary to the > Coast. > > Quotes obtained from the boat moving fraturnity of pirates are > just > > insane.  As such I am looking into the idea of buying a highway > > capable boat trailer to move her myself. > > > > She is 37 feet overall with her 4 foot bow sprit and weighs about > > 10,000 lbs.  She has a beam of 11 feet and stands 11 foot high > from > > her fin keel to the cabin roof. As I am still in the money saving > > mode, my timing is entirely open ended at this point. > > > > Given the "do-it-yourself" nature of this group, I am also > wondering > > if any of you know where one might get a design or plan to > construct > > such a trailer myself?   As I intend to convert this boat to a > twin > > keel configuration, ultimately such a trailer would have to be > > desiged with this in mind. > > > > I think that any money I throw at constructing a self built > trailer > > now, I'll probably recoup later in savings on future moves or when > I > > eventually sell it, whereas money donated to them boat moving guys > > is just simply gone. > > > > Does anyone have any leads or thoughts? > > > > Jim Douglas > > North Vancouver, B.C. > > > > > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats- > unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > > > > >     Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web. > > > >     To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > >  origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > >     Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > Service. > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > > > > > > > > > Valhalla > > Morgan 33T IOR, Hull 24 > > Bloomington, IN > > > > --------------------------------- > >  Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click. > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > SPONSORED LINKS >      British columbia canada    Vancouver island   Victoria bc   > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > >    +  Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web. > >    +  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >       origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > >    +  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of >      Service. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- >    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]    To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com     SPONSORED LINKS  British columbia canada Vancouver island Victoria bc   --------------------------------- YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS        Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web.        To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:  origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com        Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.    ---------------------------------       Valhalla Morgan 33T IOR, Hull 24 Bloomington, IN 		 ---------------------------------  Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click.    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]|
9394|9135|2005-10-31 13:38:27|will jones|Re: Wanted Boat Trailer for 37 foot Steel Sailboat|Apparently there are no attachments.  Doesn't look like the newsgroup allows email attachments.  Some do and some do not.   I see your email is shown.  I can grab the pics and send them to your account, if you like.  will jones <morgan33t_ior@...> wrote: I just went to the group:  lakemonroesailing and saved a couple of pics.  They are attached.  Seems like it is working for my account.  gschnell <gschnell@...> wrote: I am a member, and it doesn't load for me, either. Gord   Jim Douglas wrote:   >  Will > > Thanks for your reply.  I knew somebody had to design and build > these things.  I tried your link but unfornately it doesn't work. > > Could you try to repost the link? > > Much appreciated > > JUm Douglas > North Vancouver, B.C. > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, will jones <morgan33t_ior@y...> > wrote: > > > > I've built a couple of trailers to haul fixed keel boats.  One was > for a SanJuan 7.7 (3,200lbs displacement) and the other was for a > 33' Morgan IOR (9,800 lbs displacement).  Both of these can be > viewed at http://photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/lakemonroesailing . > You will have to join the group.  The SanJuan trailer can be seen in > the boatlift photos and the morgan in the trailer photos.  There > have been several changes to the SJ trailer, including the addition > of a keel guide and a 12' tower with electric winch for loading.  I > launch and haul the SJ every year with my Durango and the trailer. > As soon as I finish restoring the Morgan, I'll launch it with 40' > tow straps.  I saw a guy do this in Jackson, Wy with a 30' Pearson. > Works well. > > > > I designed and built both of these trailers and I have hauled the > SanJuan over 3,000 miles in trips to Traverse City, MI.  I had the > Morgan hauled with an F500 from Chicago to Bloomington IN.  You > could use a F300 with a class V hitch with no problem.  Both > trailers are launching trailers, ie, the boats can be launched from > any ramp that gives one 5' of water. > > > > > > > > > > Jim Douglas <conceptconversion@t...> wrote: > > I need to move my steel hulled sail boat from Calgary to the > Coast. > > Quotes obtained from the boat moving fraturnity of pirates are > just > > insane.  As such I am looking into the idea of buying a highway > > capable boat trailer to move her myself. > > > > She is 37 feet overall with her 4 foot bow sprit and weighs about > > 10,000 lbs.  She has a beam of 11 feet and stands 11 foot high > from > > her fin keel to the cabin roof. As I am still in the money saving > > mode, my timing is entirely open ended at this point. > > > > Given the "do-it-yourself" nature of this group, I am also > wondering > > if any of you know where one might get a design or plan to > construct > > such a trailer myself?   As I intend to convert this boat to a > twin > > keel configuration, ultimately such a trailer would have to be > > desiged with this in mind. > > > > I think that any money I throw at constructing a self built > trailer > > now, I'll probably recoup later in savings on future moves or when > I > > eventually sell it, whereas money donated to them boat moving guys > > is just simply gone. > > > > Does anyone have any leads or thoughts? > > > > Jim Douglas > > North Vancouver, B.C. > > > > > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats- > unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > > > > >     Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web. > > > >     To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > >  origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > >     Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > Service. > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > > > > > > > > > Valhalla > > Morgan 33T IOR, Hull 24 > > Bloomington, IN > > > > --------------------------------- > >  Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click. > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > SPONSORED LINKS >      British columbia canada    Vancouver island   Victoria bc   > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > >    +  Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web. > >    +  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >       origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > >    +  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of >      Service. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- >    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]    To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com     SPONSORED LINKS  British columbia canada Vancouver island Victoria bc   --------------------------------- YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS        Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web.        To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com        Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.    ---------------------------------       Valhalla Morgan 33T IOR, Hull 24 Bloomington, IN              --------------------------------- Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click.    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]    To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com     SPONSORED LINKS  British columbia canada Vancouver island Victoria bc   --------------------------------- YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS        Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web.        To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:  origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com        Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.    ---------------------------------     Valhalla Morgan 33T IOR, Hull 24 Bloomington, IN 		 ---------------------------------  Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click.    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]|
9395|9395|2005-10-31 15:21:18|jericoera|Junk Rigged Swain?|A guy the other day thought he saw a Swain boat up near Lund BC and  asked me if I ever saw it. I am curious as to whether it was one of  Brent's boats as it was reported to be Junk rigged in Schooner fashion  and I was not aware that anyone rigged Swain vessels Junk style.  Anybody ever see something like that?  Carl M.|
9396|9396|2005-11-01 00:42:38|ziggy.millam3173@yashyi.com|I am officially 'hitched', well almost...|Some of my friends have managed to meet a few nice ones off this thing (here is the place they told me: http://www.dreamfix.info/onmlw , but what do you guys reckon? Myself, I actually think it is pretty awesome from what I've seen, and Im considering getting on there later on this evening. If you don't know what it is, basically its like a matchingplace, but has few added things I noticed. Stuff like messenger, vidchat, picsrate, etc. Best part is you can talk to ppl on vidchat even if   you don't have it enabled yourself.|
9397|9396|2005-11-01 06:56:24|cirejay|Re: I am officially 'hitched', well almost...|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "ziggy.millam3173@y..."  <ziggy.millam3173@y...> wrote:  > > Some of my friends have managed to meet a few nice ones off this   thing (here is the place they told me: http://www.dreamfix.info/onmlw ,  but what do you guys reckon? Myself, I actually think it is pretty  awesome from what I've seen, and Im considering getting on there later  on this evening. If you don't know what it is, basically its like a  matchingplace, but has few added things I noticed. Stuff like  messenger, vidchat, picsrate, etc. Best part is you can talk to ppl on  vidchat even if   you don't have it enabled yourself.  This is kinda funny except for the fact that this idiot actually  managed to literally break-in.  Go Yahoo! eric S/V Nebaras|
9398|9398|2005-11-01 11:54:50|SHANE ROTHWELL|Jim Douglas moving 47' Steelie|Hi Jim,  I'm not a trucker but perhaps this would work.  -Hire a trailer for a week/whatever. Maybe buy one. -Hire a welder for a day. - hire a crane to load (which you will need anyway) -Lift boat, chop off keel (as your are planning to anyway.) -Put boat on trailer & weld on struts/props with big (12" x 12"??) plates on bottom of the struts. Pretty it does not have to be... -Strap the whole mess down with 4" cargo straps (they take huge load, if not enuf, use more). Toss the keel on the flatbed & strap down - haul away.  this way you then have the hull w/o keel as you wanted, it reduces the height of the load, and you then have one unit which when you unload, can go straight onto the ground without fiddling around with proping it up, or, if you buy the trailer, it stays on the trailer & can be worked on when, where & as.  Shane   	  	 		 __________________________________________________________  Find your next car at http://autos.yahoo.ca|
9400|9396|2005-11-01 15:31:49|Jim Ragsdale|Re: I am officially 'hitched', well almost...|Not a spam thing!   ----- Original Message -----  From: "jericoera" <jericoera@...> To: <origamiboats@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2005 2:22 PM Subject: [origamiboats] Re: I am officially 'hitched', well almost...   > What the hell does that have to do with building boats? > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "cirejay" <cirejay@h...> wrote: > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "ziggy.millam3173@y..." > > <ziggy.millam3173@y...> wrote: > > > > > > Some of my friends have managed to meet a few nice ones off this > > thing (here is the place they told me: > http://www.dreamfix.info/onmlw , > > but what do you guys reckon? Myself, I actually think it is pretty > > awesome from what I've seen, and Im considering getting on there > later > > on this evening. If you don't know what it is, basically its like > a > > matchingplace, but has few added things I noticed. Stuff like > > messenger, vidchat, picsrate, etc. Best part is you can talk to > ppl on > > vidchat even if   you don't have it enabled yourself. > > > > This is kinda funny except for the fact that this idiot actually > > managed to literally break-in.  Go Yahoo! > > eric S/V Nebaras > > > > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > |
9401|9401|2005-11-01 17:16:42|Barry Gorman|hitched ?|I Believe that If it has NO origamiboats Subject in the Message Then it is an plain Shit Mail which INMHO is                   "SPAM"|
9402|9266|2005-11-01 17:59:55|Michael Casling|Re: Wood burning stove|Just as it sounds. You put a $5.99 clay flower pot upside down over the top of a burner. Use a pot with a small hole in the bottom. That now becomes the top to vent the fumes from the burnt flame. The pot absorbs the heat and radiates it. This is not the most ideal heater, but for $5.99 what else is ideal. My boat was 50F inside on Saturday morning, with the burner on low it warmed up to 60F in about half an hour.  Michael      ----- Original Message -----    From: Courtney Thomas    To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com    Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2005 8:21 PM   Subject: Re: [origamiboats] Re: Wood burning stove     Michael,    What is the clay flower pot over the burner system ?    Thanks,   Courtney     [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
9403|9403|2005-11-02 14:50:23|joe framer|Re: Digest Number 1359|Hello everyone, I have lost my copy of Brents book. Been searching in archives looking for the beam of the 31' but can't find it.  Also what about the few boats listed at 32' ??? is that a standard modification. Also while I have your attention, does anyone have a handle on how much more materials for a 36' woulld be.    framer       		 __________________________________  Start your day with Yahoo! - Make it your home page!  http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs|
9404|9403|2005-11-02 15:27:36|tom|Re: Digest Number 1359|Hello  Just looked in my copy of the book and the Beam on the 31 footer is 10ft .  If you look in the files folder there is a material list for the 31 and 36  listed Tom  ----- Original Message -----  From: "joe framer" <t_framer@...> To: <origamiboats@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2005 11:50 AM Subject: Re: [origamiboats] Digest Number 1359   > Hello everyone, I have lost my copy of Brents book. > Been searching in archives looking for the beam of the > 31' but can't find it.  Also what about the few boats > listed at 32' ??? is that a standard modification. > Also while I have your attention, does anyone have a > handle on how much more materials for a 36' woulld be. >   framer > > > > > > > > __________________________________ > Start your day with Yahoo! - Make it your home page! > http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs > > > > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:  > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > |
9405|9266|2005-11-02 16:17:35|cirejay|Re: Wood burning stove|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Michael Casling <casling@s...>  wrote:  > > Just as it sounds. You put a $5.99 clay flower pot upside down over   the top of a burner. Use a pot with a small hole in the bottom. That  now becomes the top to vent the fumes from the burnt flame.   To where?    >This is not the most ideal heater, but for $5.99 what else is ideal.   Nothing comes close, thank god.  eric S/V Nebaras|
9406|9406|2005-11-02 19:29:42|richytill|Breakdown on cost of construction|Construction cost of a vessel will vary from location to location and  from builder to builder but I would be interested to know if anyone is  keeping track of costs.  It would be instuctive to know if there are  better places to build and no-doubt, other lessons could be learned.  I  have a total on the cost of welding and cutting supplies, lead,  stainless, steel, abrasives and other fabrication related costs for a  folded 36 if anyone is interested in discussion.  There is also a total  for painting, blasting, bedding compounds, varnish, interior paint  etc.  I would be interested in starting with metal because it is  probably the most consistent cost/phase of the project as opposed to  say; interiors which could vary to a greater degree. rt|
9407|9406|2005-11-02 20:28:51|kingsknight4life|Re: Breakdown on cost of construction|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "richytill" <tillrc@h...> wrote:  > > ...I  > have a total on the cost of welding and cutting supplies, lead,  > stainless, steel, abrasives and other fabrication related costs for   a   > folded 36 if anyone is interested in discussion.  ...    Rich I could tell ya but I have a box full of receipts. Lots of them.  mostly for tools, sandpaper, tape, glue and what have you. lots for  stinless too. Rowland|
9408|9406|2005-11-02 20:35:34|tom|Re: Breakdown on cost of construction|I just recieved the steel for the 26 hull and transom today and I paid 0.54  cents a pound not to bad considering steel prices of todays market but that  was for 20 foot sheets, to get 28 foot sheets would have cost 0.76 cents a  pound. Steel prices change day to day and you dont realy know what it cost  till the day you buy it.  I called one outfit that specialize in the big  sheets and the gal I talked to told me that if they were not busy they would  cut a couple 28ft sheets for me but they were busy so they didnt want to  mess with it unless I was willing to buy a truckload! I was kinda shocked on  that one, I was useing my welding buisness name- ohh well wont ever call  them again.   I was figuring around $2000 for all the steel on the 26 but I think it  will probably be 2500-$3000  ----- Original Message -----  From: "richytill" <tillrc@...> To: <origamiboats@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2005 4:29 PM Subject: [origamiboats] Breakdown on cost of construction   > Construction cost of a vessel will vary from location to location and > from builder to builder but I would be interested to know if anyone is > keeping track of costs.  It would be instuctive to know if there are > better places to build and no-doubt, other lessons could be learned.  I > have a total on the cost of welding and cutting supplies, lead, > stainless, steel, abrasives and other fabrication related costs for a > folded 36 if anyone is interested in discussion.  There is also a total > for painting, blasting, bedding compounds, varnish, interior paint > etc.  I would be interested in starting with metal because it is > probably the most consistent cost/phase of the project as opposed to > say; interiors which could vary to a greater degree. rt > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:  > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > |
9409|9406|2005-11-03 01:04:22|jericoera|Re: Breakdown on cost of construction|What currency are you quoting? I am assuming US dollars as the  moniker TASMANUSA may imply you are south of us Canadians.  CArl M>   --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "tom" <tazmann@i...> wrote: > >  I just recieved the steel for the 26 hull and transom today and I  paid 0.54  > cents a pound not to bad considering steel prices of todays market  but that  > was for 20 foot sheets, to get 28 foot sheets would have cost 0.76  cents a  > pound. Steel prices change day to day and you dont realy know what  it cost  > till the day you buy it.  I called one outfit that specialize in  the big  > sheets and the gal I talked to told me that if they were not busy  they would  > cut a couple 28ft sheets for me but they were busy so they didnt  want to  > mess with it unless I was willing to buy a truckload! I was kinda  shocked on  > that one, I was useing my welding buisness name- ohh well wont  ever call  > them again. >   I was figuring around $2000 for all the steel on the 26 but I  think it  > will probably be 2500-$3000 > ----- Original Message -----  > From: "richytill" <tillrc@h...> > To: <origamiboats@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2005 4:29 PM > Subject: [origamiboats] Breakdown on cost of construction >  >  > > Construction cost of a vessel will vary from location to  location and > > from builder to builder but I would be interested to know if  anyone is > > keeping track of costs.  It would be instuctive to know if there  are > > better places to build and no-doubt, other lessons could be  learned.  I > > have a total on the cost of welding and cutting supplies, lead, > > stainless, steel, abrasives and other fabrication related costs  for a > > folded 36 if anyone is interested in discussion.  There is also  a total > > for painting, blasting, bedding compounds, varnish, interior  paint > > etc.  I would be interested in starting with metal because it is > > probably the most consistent cost/phase of the project as  opposed to > > say; interiors which could vary to a greater degree. rt > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:  > > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > |
9410|9406|2005-11-03 08:02:27|tom|Re: Breakdown on cost of construction|Im in central part of California USA, By the way what is the exchange rate  between Canada and US  Tom  ----- Original Message -----  From: "jericoera" <jericoera@...> To: <origamiboats@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2005 10:03 PM Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Breakdown on cost of construction   > What currency are you quoting? I am assuming US dollars as the > moniker TASMANUSA may imply you are south of us Canadians. > > CArl M> > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "tom" <tazmann@i...> wrote: >> >>  I just recieved the steel for the 26 hull and transom today and I > paid 0.54 >> cents a pound not to bad considering steel prices of todays market > but that >> was for 20 foot sheets, to get 28 foot sheets would have cost 0.76 > cents a >> pound. Steel prices change day to day and you dont realy know what > it cost >> till the day you buy it.  I called one outfit that specialize in > the big >> sheets and the gal I talked to told me that if they were not busy > they would >> cut a couple 28ft sheets for me but they were busy so they didnt > want to >> mess with it unless I was willing to buy a truckload! I was kinda > shocked on >> that one, I was useing my welding buisness name- ohh well wont > ever call >> them again. >>   I was figuring around $2000 for all the steel on the 26 but I > think it >> will probably be 2500-$3000 |
9411|9401|2005-11-03 08:24:26|Carl Volkwein|Re: hitched ?|I get a LOT of e-mails that don't say origamiboats in the subject line, I'd say only 98% are spam, but I know what you mean. But this is my only e-mail box, so keep the spam coming.                                                  Carl Volkwein from W.V.  Barry Gorman <bgo19288@...> wrote: I Believe that If it has NO origamiboats Subject in the Message Then it is an plain Shit Mail which INMHO is                   "SPAM"      To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com     SPONSORED LINKS  British columbia canada Vancouver island Victoria bc   --------------------------------- YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS        Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web.        To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:  origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com        Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.    ---------------------------------    		 ---------------------------------  Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click.    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]|
9412|9406|2005-11-03 08:25:42|Bill Jaine|Re: Breakdown on cost of construction|85 cents approx. i.e. C$1 = 85 cents USA      Bill   Port Hope. Canada     -----Original Message----- From: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com [mailto:origamiboats@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of tom Sent: 3-Nov-05 8:02 AM To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [origamiboats] Re: Breakdown on cost of construction     Im in central part of California USA, By the way what is the exchange rate  between Canada and US        _____     -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.12.6/151 - Release Date: 28/10/2005    --  No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.12.6/151 - Release Date: 28/10/2005     [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]|
9413|9398|2005-11-03 08:35:47|Carl Volkwein|Re: Jim Douglas moving 47' Steelie|Interesting Shane,            I don't think it's my cup of tea, as I'm building a smaller boat, but....                             Carl Volkwein from W.V.  SHANE ROTHWELL <rockrothwell@...> wrote: Hi Jim,  I'm not a trucker but perhaps this would work.  -Hire a trailer for a week/whatever. Maybe buy one. -Hire a welder for a day. - hire a crane to load (which you will need anyway) -Lift boat, chop off keel (as your are planning to anyway.) -Put boat on trailer & weld on struts/props with big (12" x 12"??) plates on bottom of the struts. Pretty it does not have to be... -Strap the whole mess down with 4" cargo straps (they take huge load, if not enuf, use more). Toss the keel on the flatbed & strap down - haul away.  this way you then have the hull w/o keel as you wanted, it reduces the height of the load, and you then have one unit which when you unload, can go straight onto the ground without fiddling around with proping it up, or, if you buy the trailer, it stays on the trailer & can be worked on when, where & as.  Shane                               __________________________________________________________  Find your next car at http://autos.yahoo.ca   To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com     SPONSORED LINKS  British columbia canada Vancouver island Victoria bc   --------------------------------- YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS        Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web.        To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:  origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com        Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.    ---------------------------------    		 ---------------------------------  Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click.    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]|
9414|9406|2005-11-03 10:49:06|Bruce Hallman|Re: Breakdown on cost of construction|On 11/2/05, richytill wrote:  >  Construction cost of a vessel ...   You list a bunch of different types of costs, but leave out what I think are the two biggest catagories.  Labor and space.  [Both of these are time and location dependent.] Hiring help can speed up the job, reducing the cost of renting [or paying mortgage on] shop or boatyard space.  Doing all the work oneself, would extend the length of the job are requires paying more for your own living space & expense too.  Traveling to a place in the world with lower labor costs, or living costs is worth consideration too.|
9415|9406|2005-11-03 11:52:08|Wesley Cox|Re: Breakdown on cost of construction|Amazing... the last time I was in Canada, May 2002, it was about 70  cents.  July 2001 it was 65 cents.  Bill Jaine wrote:   >85 cents approx. i.e. C$1 = 85 cents USA  > >  > >Bill  > >Port Hope. Canada > >  > >-----Original Message----- >From: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com [mailto:origamiboats@yahoogroups.com] On >Behalf Of tom >Sent: 3-Nov-05 8:02 AM >To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com >Subject: Re: [origamiboats] Re: Breakdown on cost of construction > >  > >Im in central part of California USA, By the way what is the exchange rate  >between Canada and US > >  > >   _____   > > >-- >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG Free Edition. >Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.12.6/151 - Release Date: 28/10/2005 > > > >   > |
9416|9406|2005-11-03 16:22:20|richytill|Re: Breakdown on cost of construction|Bruce, you may be correct about labour and space depending on where  you build.  I suspect that many builders view boatbuilding as a hobby  and do not count labour as a cost.  Others may be learning and others  may pay to get the bare hull pulled together or pulled and welded.  This project was built and priced on the Sunshine Coast (raining here  for weeks), British Columbia, Canada and costs are reflected in  Canadian $.    I have broken down costs into the following categories:  Drive Unit; Electrial; Fastenings/Fittings/Interior; Metal;  Paint/Caulk/Foam; Woodworking.  I posted the cost of the drive train earlier--this is a cost that  could vary a great deal depending on what people are looking for in  an engine.  I will put forward the Metal cost for discussion.  Metal would  include: welding rods; abrasives; stainless; all steel plate;  electricity used; lead; oxygen; propane; spare cutting tips, gloves;  glasses/lenses; masks and other items destroyed in the process.  The costs are listed:  Year 1:  $9,936.22; year 2: $2,928.12; year 3: $428.43;  year 4: $109.15; year 5: $310.82    Total all metal phases--hull only:  $13,712.74   $350 worth of plate was sold as left-over new metal and could be  deducted from the total.   It is worth noting that the vessel was launched towards the end of  year 2.  Steel prices are spring 2001.  rt    -- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Hallman <bruce@h...> wrote:  > > On 11/2/05, richytill wrote: > >  Construction cost of a vessel ... >  > You list a bunch of different types of costs, but > leave out what I think are the two biggest catagories. >  > Labor and space. >  > [Both of these are time and location dependent.] > Hiring help can speed up the job, reducing the > cost of renting [or paying mortgage on] shop > or boatyard space. >  > Doing all the work oneself, would extend the length > of the job are requires paying more for your own living > space & expense too. >  > Traveling to a place in the world with lower labor > costs, or living costs is worth consideration too. > |
9417|9395|2005-11-03 17:00:26|brentswain38|Re: Junk Rigged Swain?|I'm unaware ( thank god ) of any of my boats being riged with a Junk    ( garbage ) rig. Brent   --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "jericoera" <jericoera@y...> wrote: > > A guy the other day thought he saw a Swain boat up near Lund BC and  > asked me if I ever saw it. I am curious as to whether it was one of  > Brent's boats as it was reported to be Junk rigged in Schooner  fashion  > and I was not aware that anyone rigged Swain vessels Junk style. >  > Anybody ever see something like that? >  > Carl M. > |
9418|9406|2005-11-03 17:07:20|brentswain38|Re: Breakdown on cost of construction|Most of my boats are built outside. Very few are built inside. Most  people do most of their own labour, and treat the project like a  hobbie. Hiring someone who has built a lot of boats to jump start you  from time to time,cuts the time and thus the rent costs. The cheapest  rent lately has been $20  month and most people get a space for  around $100 a month. For a one year project that works out to $1200,  tiny compared to the value of the boat. Brent   --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Hallman <bruce@h...> wrote: > > On 11/2/05, richytill wrote: > >  Construction cost of a vessel ... >  > You list a bunch of different types of costs, but > leave out what I think are the two biggest catagories. >  > Labor and space. >  > [Both of these are time and location dependent.] > Hiring help can speed up the job, reducing the > cost of renting [or paying mortgage on] shop > or boatyard space. >  > Doing all the work oneself, would extend the length > of the job are requires paying more for your own living > space & expense too. >  > Traveling to a place in the world with lower labor > costs, or living costs is worth consideration too. > |
9419|9395|2005-11-03 17:16:00|Alex Christie|Re: Junk Rigged Swain?|It is probably Jack and Monica Carson's Bella Via. I am not sure where  they are located right now.  I am a fence sitter on the issue of junk rig, but all I know is that I  watched Jack's boat sailing along just fine on one tack when all the  battens were on the leeward side of the mast, allowing more of an  airfoil shape.  When he came about, right below my house on Denman  Island, and tried the next tack with the battens on the windward side  of the mast, the boat was almost dead in the water and struggled to  make its tack.  If that were a lee shore in confused seas with cross-currents and  pounding surf, the boat would have been lost if it was not able to  power off.  I got in a lot of trouble last time I mentioned this, from Junk-rig  proponents, because there are those who like it and are going to be  using it.  I am only reporting what I saw, not my opinion, so don't  flame me please!  My thoughts are that if one wanted a junk-like rig with the added  advantage of the fully battened rig, then look at something which  allows the sail shape to be the same on either side, as proposed by  Phil Bolger for his catamaran Double Eagle.  It is a gaff-junk, and  there is no sail area forward of the mast, which might not be to some  peoples' favour, but it might address the issue I saw.  I also read an article once about a man who lost his boat and almost  his family, due to a lee shore situation in a junk rigged craft. He did  not associate his lack of windward ability (he also had a shallow shoe  keel, no fin) with the rig, but rather more mystical forces beyond his  reckoning.  I am not going to rule on the rig as the primary cause,  since his keel was almost non-existent (he wanted shallow draught) and  was a likely contributor to the bad situation.  Even thoroughbred boats  with sparkling upwind ability can, and have, been trapped on lee shores  and wrecked!  Alex    On 3-Nov-05, at 2:00 PM, brentswain38 wrote:  > I'm unaware ( thank god ) of any of my boats being riged with a Junk   >  ( garbage ) rig. >  Brent > >  --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "jericoera" <jericoera@y...>  > wrote: >  > >  > A guy the other day thought he saw a Swain boat up near Lund BC and >  > asked me if I ever saw it. I am curious as to whether it was one of >  > Brent's boats as it was reported to be Junk rigged in Schooner >  fashion >  > and I was not aware that anyone rigged Swain vessels Junk style. >  > >  > Anybody ever see something like that? >  > >  > Carl M.   [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
9420|9406|2005-11-03 17:24:15|richytill|Re: Breakdown on cost of construction|Brent,  The yard I built in charged $450 a month for outdoor space and a  cabin to rent.  This meant I had a place to live with the boat right  on the doorstep.  The time saved by being next to a welding shop  (with a bicycle for transportation to supplies) would be  significant.  An argument could be made that the quicker you build  (ie. quit your day job) the less the cost of rentals and start/stop  time.  When you work a 12 hr day you only set out and pack up tools  once in 12 hrs.  Spread that out 12 hrs over 4 evenings and you have  a lot of start/stop time.    --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "brentswain38"  <brentswain38@h...> wrote:  > > Most of my boats are built outside. Very few are built inside. Most  > people do most of their own labour, and treat the project like a  > hobbie. Hiring someone who has built a lot of boats to jump start   you   > from time to time,cuts the time and thus the rent costs. The   cheapest   > rent lately has been $20  month and most people get a space for  > around $100 a month. For a one year project that works out to   $1200,   > tiny compared to the value of the boat. > Brent >  > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Hallman <bruce@h...>   wrote:  > > > > On 11/2/05, richytill wrote: > > >  Construction cost of a vessel ... > >  > > You list a bunch of different types of costs, but > > leave out what I think are the two biggest catagories. > >  > > Labor and space. > >  > > [Both of these are time and location dependent.] > > Hiring help can speed up the job, reducing the > > cost of renting [or paying mortgage on] shop > > or boatyard space. > >  > > Doing all the work oneself, would extend the length > > of the job are requires paying more for your own living > > space & expense too. > >  > > Traveling to a place in the world with lower labor > > costs, or living costs is worth consideration too. > > > |
9421|9406|2005-11-03 17:37:47|Michael Casling|Re: Breakdown on cost of construction|The Canadian dollar is about .85c to the US $. It might go to .88c but the US $ is strengthening so it might go back down to .79c. At one time it was worth about $1.20 to the US $. China is developing its capacity to manufacture steel so the price demand may ease. Never trust anyone who makes future predications, as many things can screw up the predictions.  The above is from notes from financial meetings.  Michael     ----- Original Message -----    From: tom    To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com    Sent: Thursday, November 03, 2005 5:02 AM   Subject: Re: [origamiboats] Re: Breakdown on cost of construction     Im in central part of California USA, By the way what is the exchange rate    between Canada and US    Tom   ----- Original Message -----    From: "jericoera" <jericoera@...>   To: <origamiboats@yahoogroups.com>   Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2005 10:03 PM   Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Breakdown on cost of construction     > What currency are you quoting? I am assuming US dollars as the   > moniker TASMANUSA may imply you are south of us Canadians.   >   > CArl M>   >   > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "tom" <tazmann@i...> wrote:   >>   >>  I just recieved the steel for the 26 hull and transom today and I   > paid 0.54   >> cents a pound not to bad considering steel prices of todays market   > but that   >> was for 20 foot sheets, to get 28 foot sheets would have cost 0.76   > cents a   >> pound. Steel prices change day to day and you dont realy know what   > it cost   >> till the day you buy it.  I called one outfit that specialize in   > the big   >> sheets and the gal I talked to told me that if they were not busy   > they would   >> cut a couple 28ft sheets for me but they were busy so they didnt   > want to   >> mess with it unless I was willing to buy a truckload! I was kinda   > shocked on   >> that one, I was useing my welding buisness name- ohh well wont   > ever call   >> them again.   >>   I was figuring around $2000 for all the steel on the 26 but I   > think it   >> will probably be 2500-$3000      To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com   To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com       SPONSORED LINKS British columbia canada  Vancouver island  Victoria bc     ------------------------------------------------------------------------------   YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS       a..  Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web.            b..  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:      origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com            c..  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
9422|9406|2005-11-03 18:47:44|mickeyolaf|Re: Breakdown on cost of construction|One of my co-workers many years ago build from scratch a Mason 43 in  Fiberglass. It took him 8 years. He was interviewed in Pacific  Yachting at launch time. When he was asked if he would do it again he said no. He had lost 8  years of sailing and to make it worse it turned out his wife didn't  like boating. One storm and she was out of there. If you are building to build a boat is one thing. If you are  building to go boating it is another. Is it better to pay a professional to build something right in one  tenth the time than to pay yourself nothing for eight years of  labour? In my case I would rather work extra hard at my salary (plus  overtime)and then pay someone who really knows what they are doing  than do it (and redo it?) myself at a snails pace. I want to get out  there sailing and I just don't have eight years to get there. I've read many times that the hull is only 35% of the boat and its  the extras that do us all in.  If you have to pay storage for years, gas to and from your project  for years, power for years, tooling up, skilling up etc what in the  end have you really saved doing it yourself without help.  I quess  if you can build at home there are some savings.     --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Hallman <bruce@h...>  wrote:  > > On 11/2/05, richytill wrote: > >  Construction cost of a vessel ... >  > You list a bunch of different types of costs, but > leave out what I think are the two biggest catagories. >  > Labor and space. >  > [Both of these are time and location dependent.] > Hiring help can speed up the job, reducing the > cost of renting [or paying mortgage on] shop > or boatyard space. >  > Doing all the work oneself, would extend the length > of the job are requires paying more for your own living > space & expense too. >  > Traveling to a place in the world with lower labor > costs, or living costs is worth consideration too. > |
9423|9406|2005-11-03 18:53:50|Bill Jaine|Re: Breakdown on cost of construction|Wait �til next year :-(     Bill   Port Hope. Canada     -----Original Message----- From: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com [mailto:origamiboats@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Wesley Cox Sent: 3-Nov-05 11:52 AM To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [origamiboats] Re: Breakdown on cost of construction     Amazing... the last time I was in Canada, May 2002, it was about 70  cents.  July 2001 it was 65 cents.  Bill Jaine wrote:   >85 cents approx. i.e. C$1 = 85 cents USA  > >  > >Bill  > >Port Hope. Canada > >  > >-----Original Message----- >From: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com [mailto:origamiboats@yahoogroups.com] On >Behalf Of tom >Sent: 3-Nov-05 8:02 AM >To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com >Subject: Re: [origamiboats] Re: Breakdown on cost of construction > >  > >Im in central part of California USA, By the way what is the exchange rate  >between Canada and US > >  > >   _____   > > >-- >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG Free Edition. >Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.12.6/151 - Release Date: 28/10/2005 > > > >   >     To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com      SPONSORED LINKS    HYPERLINK "http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=British+columbia+canada&w1=British+colu mbia+canada&w2=Vancouver+island&w3=Victoria+bc&c=3&s=68&.sig=hOB34L7ffhkQlFF vsAzP_Q"British columbia canada   HYPERLINK "http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Vancouver+island&w1=British+columbia+ca nada&w2=Vancouver+island&w3=Victoria+bc&c=3&s=68&.sig=k42wEapFMWz1Mf-K2aRftQ "Vancouver island   HYPERLINK "http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Victoria+bc&w1=British+columbia+canada& w2=Vancouver+island&w3=Victoria+bc&c=3&s=68&.sig=bmm7Xc1-LMaEbVMC3BZrGA"Vict oria bc         _____    YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS      *         Visit your group "HYPERLINK "http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats"origamiboats" on the web.     *         To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:  HYPERLINK "mailto:origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe"origami boats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com     *         Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the HYPERLINK "http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/"Yahoo! Terms of Service.         _____     -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.12.6/151 - Release Date: 28/10/2005    --  No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.12.6/151 - Release Date: 28/10/2005     [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]|
9424|9406|2005-11-03 19:15:54|Michael Casling|Re: Breakdown on cost of construction|When I purchased my 8.5m boat new in 1979 a coworker was already a few years into building a Vancouver 27. It was quite a few years later when he launched and went sailing. The first big trip, after turning left and heading South from BC, they got into a storm and that was the last trip they did. He died too young. Not a happy ending. Meanwhile I have been sailing evry week eight months a year since 1979. I can use my current boat or step up a size if needed.  Michael    ----- Original Message -----    From: mickeyolaf    To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com    Sent: Thursday, November 03, 2005 3:47 PM   Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Breakdown on cost of construction     One of my co-workers many years ago build from scratch a Mason 43 in    Fiberglass. It took him 8 years. He was interviewed in Pacific    Yachting at launch time.   When he was asked if he would do it again he said no. He had lost 8    years of sailing and to make it worse it turned out his wife didn't    like boating. One storm and she was out of there.   If you are building to build a boat is one thing. If you are    building to go boating it is another.   Is it better to pay a professional to build something right in one    tenth the time than to pay yourself nothing for eight years of    labour? In my case I would rather work extra hard at my salary (plus    overtime)and then pay someone who really knows what they are doing    than do it (and redo it?) myself at a snails pace. I want to get out    there sailing and I just don't have eight years to get there.   I've read many times that the hull is only 35% of the boat and its    the extras that do us all in.    If you have to pay storage for years, gas to and from your project    for years, power for years, tooling up, skilling up etc what in the    end have you really saved doing it yourself without help.  I quess    if you can build at home there are some savings.       --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Hallman <bruce@h...>    wrote:   >   > On 11/2/05, richytill wrote:   > >  Construction cost of a vessel ...   >    > You list a bunch of different types of costs, but   > leave out what I think are the two biggest catagories.   >    > Labor and space.   >    > [Both of these are time and location dependent.]   > Hiring help can speed up the job, reducing the   > cost of renting [or paying mortgage on] shop   > or boatyard space.   >    > Doing all the work oneself, would extend the length   > of the job are requires paying more for your own living   > space & expense too.   >    > Traveling to a place in the world with lower labor   > costs, or living costs is worth consideration too.   >          To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com   To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com     ------------------------------------------------------------------------------   YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS       a..  Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web.            b..  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:      origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com            c..  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
9425|9406|2005-11-03 19:50:34|richytill|Re: Breakdown on cost of construction|Comparitive costers,  The discussion seems to have taken a turn towards if it's a good idea  to build' vs buy, as opposed to costs.  That's OK.  I tend to agree  that those who enjoy the process of building as a hobby are more  likely to get more out of it.  The west coast is a graveyard of boat-building projects and projects  gone wrong.  From this evolutionary process, folded metal seems to  have faired well as a "get it done" method.  I would also agree that  there is wisdom in getting a pro' to do the phases you are not good  at--unless you have nothing but time on your hands.  rt   --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Michael Casling <casling@s...>  wrote:  > > When I purchased my 8.5m boat new in 1979 a coworker was already a   few years into building a Vancouver 27.  > It was quite a few years later when he launched and went sailing. > The first big trip, after turning left and heading South from BC,   they got into a storm and that was the last trip they did.  > He died too young. Not a happy ending. Meanwhile I have been   sailing evry week eight months a year since 1979.  > I can use my current boat or step up a size if needed. >  > Michael >   ----- Original Message -----  >   From: mickeyolaf  >   To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com  >   Sent: Thursday, November 03, 2005 3:47 PM >   Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Breakdown on cost of construction >  >  >   One of my co-workers many years ago build from scratch a Mason 43   in   >   Fiberglass. It took him 8 years. He was interviewed in Pacific  >   Yachting at launch time. >   When he was asked if he would do it again he said no. He had lost   8   >   years of sailing and to make it worse it turned out his wife   didn't   >   like boating. One storm and she was out of there. >   If you are building to build a boat is one thing. If you are  >   building to go boating it is another. >   Is it better to pay a professional to build something right in   one   >   tenth the time than to pay yourself nothing for eight years of  >   labour? In my case I would rather work extra hard at my salary   (plus   >   overtime)and then pay someone who really knows what they are   doing   >   than do it (and redo it?) myself at a snails pace. I want to get   out   >   there sailing and I just don't have eight years to get there. >   I've read many times that the hull is only 35% of the boat and   its   >   the extras that do us all in.  >   If you have to pay storage for years, gas to and from your   project   >   for years, power for years, tooling up, skilling up etc what in   the   >   end have you really saved doing it yourself without help.  I   quess   >   if you can build at home there are some savings. >  >  >  >  >   --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Hallman <bruce@h...>  >   wrote: >   > >   > On 11/2/05, richytill wrote: >   > >  Construction cost of a vessel ... >   >  >   > You list a bunch of different types of costs, but >   > leave out what I think are the two biggest catagories. >   >  >   > Labor and space. >   >  >   > [Both of these are time and location dependent.] >   > Hiring help can speed up the job, reducing the >   > cost of renting [or paying mortgage on] shop >   > or boatyard space. >   >  >   > Doing all the work oneself, would extend the length >   > of the job are requires paying more for your own living >   > space & expense too. >   >  >   > Traveling to a place in the world with lower labor >   > costs, or living costs is worth consideration too. >   > >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >   To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com >   To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-  unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com   >  >  >  > --------------------------------------------------------------------  ----------  >   YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS  >  >     a..  Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web. >        >     b..  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >      origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com >        >     c..  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms   of Service.   >  >  > --------------------------------------------------------------------  ----------  >  >  >  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > |
9426|9406|2005-11-03 20:00:45|tom|Re: Breakdown on cost of construction|I think Its gotta be a labor of love to jump in and build a boat especialy  a bigger one. In my case Ive allways wanted to build one, even as a kid I  remember setting in the classroom at school dreaming about it. Now Im in my  40's  so I desided if Im going to do it I better get started before Im to  old to tackle it.  Im building the BS26 not to big of an investment, time or money and if it  works out ok maybee in a few years I will build the 36  ----- Original Message -----  From: "mickeyolaf" <mickeyolaf@...> To: <origamiboats@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, November 03, 2005 3:47 PM Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Breakdown on cost of construction   > One of my co-workers many years ago build from scratch a Mason 43 in > Fiberglass. It took him 8 years. He was interviewed in Pacific > Yachting at launch time. > When he was asked if he would do it again he said no. He had lost 8 > years of sailing and to make it worse it turned out his wife didn't > like boating. One storm and she was out of there. > If you are building to build a boat is one thing. If you are > building to go boating it is another. > Is it better to pay a professional to build something right in one > tenth the time than to pay yourself nothing for eight years of > labour? In my case I would rather work extra hard at my salary (plus > overtime)and then pay someone who really knows what they are doing > than do it (and redo it?) myself at a snails pace. I want to get out > there sailing and I just don't have eight years to get there. > I've read many times that the hull is only 35% of the boat and its > the extras that do us all in. > If you have to pay storage for years, gas to and from your project > for years, power for years, tooling up, skilling up etc what in the > end have you really saved doing it yourself without help.  I quess > if you can build at home there are some savings. > > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Hallman <bruce@h...> > wrote: >> >> On 11/2/05, richytill wrote: >> >  Construction cost of a vessel ... >> >> You list a bunch of different types of costs, but >> leave out what I think are the two biggest catagories. >> >> Labor and space. >> >> [Both of these are time and location dependent.] >> Hiring help can speed up the job, reducing the >> cost of renting [or paying mortgage on] shop >> or boatyard space. >> >> Doing all the work oneself, would extend the length >> of the job are requires paying more for your own living >> space & expense too. >> >> Traveling to a place in the world with lower labor >> costs, or living costs is worth consideration too. >> > > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:  > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > |
9427|9395|2005-11-04 03:40:49|Gerd|Re: Junk Rigged Swain?|Alex, I think it's not the rig that is in question.   Although a junk does not point as high as a more modern rig, there  is no reason why it should refuse to tack. This is especially true  on our rather heavy steel hulls, they should carry through the turn  anyway.  If a boat consistantly refuses to tack there is more that's wrong  with it than just the rig.  I am not a great junk fan myself, but understand the attraction.  Some twenty years ago, one of the hulls I built was junk rigged by  the owner, and it was indeed very easy to handle. Some years later  he changed to marconi sloop for reasons of performance.  Bringing your boat and family in a situation where one single missed  tacking manoever could loose you all is a _bad_ mistake, really you  should not be there to begin with - and that is true regardless of  the type of rig you got. I spend spent a couple of hours pounding on  the rocks in a moderate swell like that, because of bad judgement  and a shift in wind, it's not a nice experience for sure.    Gerd   The Yago Project at http://www.justmueller.com/boats/|
9428|9428|2005-11-04 05:18:20|rakesh sahu|*** Vyom Jobs Newsletter - 8 Freshers Jobs - Effigent, iLink, Chell|*** Vyom Jobs Newsletter - 8 Freshers Jobs - Effigent, iLink, Chellasoft etc ***   [Vyom, Meaning - sky, horizon. Let's Touch the sky together] =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Vyom Career Magazine =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Inside This Issue ================== 1) Today's 10 Freshers Jobs -BEML,Deemsoft,Softouch 2) Please Refer Us =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-= Today's 10 Freshers Jobs - BEML, Deemsoft, Softouch =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=--=-=-=-=-=-==-=-===-= 1. Effigent India recruits Freshers http://www.discussionsworld.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=3754&PN=1 2. Fresh Engineers needed for Central Electronics Limited. http://www.discussionsworld.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=3753&PN=1 3. ChellaSoft recruits fresh graduates with VB & MS SQL Knowledge. http://www.discussionsworld.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=3752&PN=1 4. (FRESHERS & EXPERIENCED) iLink recruits Freshers or Trainees with .NET skills for Software Development. http://www.discussionsworld.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=3751&PN=1 5. NISCAIR recruits Fresh Graduates for Software Development and Implementation http://www.discussionsworld.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=3750&PN=1 6. i-flash Solutions Recruits Faculty cum Programmer http://www.discussionsworld.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=3749&PN=1 7. ILink Multitech Solutions RECRUITS http://www.discussionsworld.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=3748&PN=1 8. Harjai Computers Recruits http://www.discussionsworld.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=3747&PN=1 =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Please Refer Us =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Need your support, Please Refer Vyom Career eMagazine to your colleagues and friends. They can subscribe Vyom Career eMagazine for free at http://www.jobsassist.com/careermag/ .     		 ---------------------------------  Enjoy this Diwali with Y! India Click here  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]|
9429|9395|2005-11-04 09:48:59|edward_stoneuk|Re: Junk Rigged Swain?|My wife and I are building Swain a 36, which we will rig as a  schooner junk.  We belong to the Junk Rig Association and The Heart  of England Offshore Cruising Association so have experience of a  variety of boats, rigs and conditions.  The two of us sailed a junk  rigged Newbridge Navigator for two weeks, which because the mast and  centre of effort was further back than it should be was very  difficult to tack at low speeds especially in a bit of a chop.   Occasionally it needed the motor to bring it round.  Previously we  had sailed a little junk rigged day boat that tacked like a dream  and we tacked up river back and forth through a line of moored  yachts with no problem.  We have sailed on junk rigs of all sorts  including a catamaran and a steel Roberts Spray.  Off the wind they  are all stars. On the wind performance varies. Many junks owners now  use hinged battens or camber cut sails or the twist of a fanned sail  and get good performance on the wind.  For us the junk rig suits  mainly because of its ease of handling and my wife likes the look of  them and we base that view on our experience of bermudan (marconi)  gaff and junk rigs on boats from 13" to 70" (a 1913 built gaff rig  ketch.  We build and sail boats for personal enjoyment. Regards, Ted|
9430|9395|2005-11-04 10:18:07|Leif Thomsen|SV: [origamiboats] Re: Junk Rigged Swain?|Ted,  I am also building my second Junk rigged yacht. A 50 feet steel scooner. My first one was a 39 feet scooner also. Have some experinace of other junks as well. If You have seen Beatrice, a Swedish 45 feet ketch junk, I know quite a lot of the building process and details of masts (stainless steel), hinged battens and so on. If You want more info, pls contact me outside group if you want, because this group is perhaps not that interested in junks :-) Regards, Leif Thomsen  -----Ursprungligt meddelande----- Från: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com [mailto:origamiboats@yahoogroups.com]För edward_stoneuk Skickat: den 4 november 2005 15:47 Till: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Ämne: [origamiboats] Re: Junk Rigged Swain?   My wife and I are building Swain a 36, which we will rig as a schooner junk.  We belong to the Junk Rig Association and The Heart of England Offshore Cruising Association so have experience of a variety of boats, rigs and conditions.  The two of us sailed a junk rigged Newbridge Navigator for two weeks, which because the mast and centre of effort was further back than it should be was very difficult to tack at low speeds especially in a bit of a chop. Occasionally it needed the motor to bring it round.  Previously we had sailed a little junk rigged day boat that tacked like a dream and we tacked up river back and forth through a line of moored yachts with no problem.  We have sailed on junk rigs of all sorts including a catamaran and a steel Roberts Spray.  Off the wind they are all stars. On the wind performance varies. Many junks owners now use hinged battens or camber cut sails or the twist of a fanned sail and get good performance on the wind.  For us the junk rig suits mainly because of its ease of handling and my wife likes the look of them and we base that view on our experience of bermudan (marconi) gaff and junk rigs on boats from 13" to 70" (a 1913 built gaff rig ketch.  We build and sail boats for personal enjoyment. Regards, Ted       To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links|
9431|9395|2005-11-04 12:14:23|RICHARD KOKEMOOR|Re: Junk Rigged Swain?|I'm unaware ( thank god ) of any of my boats being riged with a Junk    ( garbage ) rig. Brent http://groups.yahoo.com/group/junkrig/files/42%27%20Steel%20Brent%20Swain%20junk%20schooner./   When I build, I am also planning a junk rig.  The principal modifications are placement of the mast(s) and provision for keel stepping of the (unstayed) mast(s).  This necessarily changes the accomodation somewhat.  A potential concern is the placement of a heavy unstayed mast well forward, as the junk rig demands, but even a solid timber mast of the required strength (7.5 inches diameter for the 26 footer, tapering to half that at the masthead, ~200 lbs by my calculations) does not seem significantly heavier than a stayed metal mast and its rigging, and its center of gravity is lower.  		 ---------------------------------  Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click.    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]|
9432|9395|2005-11-04 13:51:15|edward_stoneuk|SV: [origamiboats] Re: Junk Rigged Swain?|Leif, Thanks for your message.  I have seen a photograph of Sten Hellsten's  Beatrice in the JRA Newsletter 45.  A very impressive boat by all  accounts.  How where the batten hinges made?  I am not at that stage  yet, but for the masts I have two tapered 3mm steel light poles that  will be welded to flanges that will bolt to flanges welded to the  deck.  There will be pipes connecting these flanges to the bottom of  the hull.  The forward mast flange and pipe support is already tacked  in place.  It leans forward 8° to get the centre of effort forward.   Although the forward mast is out of the way being in a narrow part of  the hull the mainmast support will be in the way a bit. However I will  use it as the corner of the heads cabin and so it will be less  obtrusive.  Brent's deck stepped masts have advantages.   Regards, Ted|
9433|9395|2005-11-04 14:17:29|Michael Collins|Re: SV: [origamiboats] Re: Junk Rigged Swain?|I, for one, am very interested in hearing more about Junk Rigs.  I would  hope you would continue your discussion on this list.  I personally  would like to know more of the details of how these rigs can be improved  in performance close to the wind.   Polite debates are very educational  for those of  us with less experience. - Michael  Leif Thomsen wrote:   > Ted, > > I am also building my second Junk rigged yacht. A 50 feet steel  > scooner. My > first one was a 39 feet scooner also. Have some experinace of other  > junks as > well. If You have seen Beatrice, a Swedish 45 feet ketch junk, I know  > quite > a lot of the building process and details of masts (stainless steel),  > hinged > battens and so on. If You want more info, pls contact me outside group if > you want, because this group is perhaps not that interested in junks :-) > Regards, > Leif Thomsen > > -----Ursprungligt meddelande----- > Från: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:origamiboats@yahoogroups.com]För edward_stoneuk > Skickat: den 4 november 2005 15:47 > Till: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > Ämne: [origamiboats] Re: Junk Rigged Swain? > > > My wife and I are building Swain a 36, which we will rig as a > schooner junk.  We belong to the Junk Rig Association and The Heart > of England Offshore Cruising Association so have experience of a > variety of boats, rigs and conditions.  The two of us sailed a junk > rigged Newbridge Navigator for two weeks, which because the mast and > centre of effort was further back than it should be was very > difficult to tack at low speeds especially in a bit of a chop. > Occasionally it needed the motor to bring it round.  Previously we > had sailed a little junk rigged day boat that tacked like a dream > and we tacked up river back and forth through a line of moored > yachts with no problem.  We have sailed on junk rigs of all sorts > including a catamaran and a steel Roberts Spray.  Off the wind they > are all stars. On the wind performance varies. Many junks owners now > use hinged battens or camber cut sails or the twist of a fanned sail > and get good performance on the wind.  For us the junk rig suits > mainly because of its ease of handling and my wife likes the look of > them and we base that view on our experience of bermudan (marconi) > gaff and junk rigs on boats from 13" to 70" (a 1913 built gaff rig > ketch.  We build and sail boats for personal enjoyment. > Regards, > Ted > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:  > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > SPONSORED LINKS > Yacht  > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Yacht&w1=Yacht&w2=Victoria+bc&c=2&s=28&.sig=RTd-j7_PClPYBL3HeWCpfw>  > 	Victoria bc  > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Victoria+bc&w1=Yacht&w2=Victoria+bc&c=2&s=28&.sig=qKvzqakjCGPWmAOg75otfg>  > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > >     *  Visit your group "origamiboats >       <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats>" on the web. >         >     *  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >        origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com >       <mailto:origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe> >         >     *  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of >       Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>. > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]|
9434|9406|2005-11-04 14:35:42|edward_stoneuk|Re: Breakdown on cost of construction|When we started I thought we would be finished in three years.  Now  over three years later we are about two years behind schedule.  So  far we have spent about £19,000 or 33,251 USD or 39387 CAD.  We are  building in a shed so rent features.  It is difficult to break it  down as I have bought seconhand many instruments, the engine and  power train and so on as I have seen them in ebay, magazines or boat  jumbles.  Self build is not necessarily the cheapest option if one  considers rent for space and gas bottles especially if one is a slow  worker.  It would have been better to get someone skilled in  building origami to build the hull.  I look on it as a hobby and a  chance for my wife and I to get used to working closely together  before we set off for a life on the ocean wave.  I chose Brent's  design because I like the look of the boats, I like the people that  write on the group and because the hull metal is thicker than a  framed hull and less likely to distort when I weld it.  I general  although the assembly of the hull is quicker than with a framed hull  and this lessens rent and Brent has some very good money saving  ideas, other costs will be much the same whatever type of steel boat  you build. Regards, Ted|
9435|9395|2005-11-04 14:53:57|tom|Re: SV: [origamiboats] Re: Junk Rigged Swain?|I too wouldnt mind hereing more about junk rigs- not knowing anything about  them. I am curious though how did they come up with the name Junk rig ?  seems like it could have ben named something a little better  ----- Original Message -----  From: "Michael Collins" <boats@...> To: <origamiboats@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, November 04, 2005 11:13 AM Subject: Re: SV: [origamiboats] Re: Junk Rigged Swain?   I, for one, am very interested in hearing more about Junk Rigs.  I would hope you would continue your discussion on this list.  I personally would like to know more of the details of how these rigs can be improved in performance close to the wind.   Polite debates are very educational for those of  us with less experience. - Michael  Leif Thomsen wrote:  > Ted, > > I am also building my second Junk rigged yacht. A 50 feet steel > scooner. My > first one was a 39 feet scooner also. Have some experinace of other > junks as > well. If You have seen Beatrice, a Swedish 45 feet ketch junk, I know > quite > a lot of the building process and details of masts (stainless steel), > hinged > battens and so on. If You want more info, pls contact me outside group if > you want, because this group is perhaps not that interested in junks :-) > Regards, > Leif Thomsen > > -----Ursprungligt meddelande----- > Från: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:origamiboats@yahoogroups.com]För edward_stoneuk > Skickat: den 4 november 2005 15:47 > Till: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > Ämne: [origamiboats] Re: Junk Rigged Swain? > > > My wife and I are building Swain a 36, which we will rig as a > schooner junk.  We belong to the Junk Rig Association and The Heart > of England Offshore Cruising Association so have experience of a > variety of boats, rigs and conditions.  The two of us sailed a junk > rigged Newbridge Navigator for two weeks, which because the mast and > centre of effort was further back than it should be was very > difficult to tack at low speeds especially in a bit of a chop. > Occasionally it needed the motor to bring it round.  Previously we > had sailed a little junk rigged day boat that tacked like a dream > and we tacked up river back and forth through a line of moored > yachts with no problem.  We have sailed on junk rigs of all sorts > including a catamaran and a steel Roberts Spray.  Off the wind they > are all stars. On the wind performance varies. Many junks owners now > use hinged battens or camber cut sails or the twist of a fanned sail > and get good performance on the wind.  For us the junk rig suits > mainly because of its ease of handling and my wife likes the look of > them and we base that view on our experience of bermudan (marconi) > gaff and junk rigs on boats from 13" to 70" (a 1913 built gaff rig > ketch.  We build and sail boats for personal enjoyment. > Regards, > Ted > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > SPONSORED LINKS > Yacht > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Yacht&w1=Yacht&w2=Victoria+bc&c=2&s=28&.sig=RTd-j7_PClPYBL3HeWCpfw> > Victoria bc > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Victoria+bc&w1=Yacht&w2=Victoria+bc&c=2&s=28&.sig=qKvzqakjCGPWmAOg75otfg> > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > >     *  Visit your group "origamiboats >       <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats>" on the web. > >     *  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >        origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com >  > <mailto:origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe> > >     *  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of >       Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>. > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >   [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]     To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:  origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links |
9436|9406|2005-11-04 15:15:22|Bruce Hallman|Re: Breakdown on cost of construction|>  you build.  I suspect that many builders view boatbuilding as a hobby >  and do not count labour as a cost.   I too consider it a hobby, [working on boat #11 now], and don't keep track of the labor (or material) cost for that reason.|
9437|9395|2005-11-04 15:52:52|Cid da Silva|Re: SV: [origamiboats] Re: Junk Rigged Swain?|If you google "junk rig" you will find the following about these rigs:  "The Junk is a Chinese sailing vessel. The English name comes from Malay dgong or jong. Junks were originally developed during the Han Dynasty (220 BCE-200 CE) and further evolved to represent one of the most successful ship types in history." Don't think the translation was meant to reflect on the performance or capabilities of this rig. Just an unfortunate coincidence. IMO  cheers  cid      ----- Original Message -----    From: tom    To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com    Sent: Friday, November 04, 2005 11:53 AM   Subject: Re: SV: [origamiboats] Re: Junk Rigged Swain?     I too wouldnt mind hereing more about junk rigs- not knowing anything about    them. I am curious though how did they come up with the name Junk rig ?    seems like it could have ben named something a little better   ----- Original Message -----    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
9438|9395|2005-11-04 16:13:56|Carl Volkwein|Re: SV: [origamiboats] Re: Junk Rigged Swain?|I read a book"practical junk rig" don't remember the author, but he made them seem pretty good. I don't remember all the points, but they are simple, don't requier a lot of control lines, etc., low tech, and keel steped masts with no stays or shrouds,(the stays are in the mast), also he used solid wooden masts, but said you could use aluminum flag poles instead.       I beleav H.G.Hastler tried to "improve" the chinese rig, he had says and a western headsail, but kept most of the rigs good looks  I haven't seen what Bolger did?                     Carl Volkwein fron W.V.  tom <tazmann@...> wrote: I too wouldnt mind hereing more about junk rigs- not knowing anything about  them. I am curious though how did they come up with the name Junk rig ?  seems like it could have ben named something a little better  ----- Original Message -----  From: "Michael Collins" <boats@...> To: <origamiboats@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, November 04, 2005 11:13 AM Subject: Re: SV: [origamiboats] Re: Junk Rigged Swain?   I, for one, am very interested in hearing more about Junk Rigs.  I would hope you would continue your discussion on this list.  I personally would like to know more of the details of how these rigs can be improved in performance close to the wind.   Polite debates are very educational for those of  us with less experience. - Michael  Leif Thomsen wrote:  > Ted, > > I am also building my second Junk rigged yacht. A 50 feet steel > scooner. My > first one was a 39 feet scooner also. Have some experinace of other > junks as > well. If You have seen Beatrice, a Swedish 45 feet ketch junk, I know > quite > a lot of the building process and details of masts (stainless steel), > hinged > battens and so on. If You want more info, pls contact me outside group if > you want, because this group is perhaps not that interested in junks :-) > Regards, > Leif Thomsen > > -----Ursprungligt meddelande----- > Från: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:origamiboats@yahoogroups.com]För edward_stoneuk > Skickat: den 4 november 2005 15:47 > Till: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > Ämne: [origamiboats] Re: Junk Rigged Swain? > > > My wife and I are building Swain a 36, which we will rig as a > schooner junk.  We belong to the Junk Rig Association and The Heart > of England Offshore Cruising Association so have experience of a > variety of boats, rigs and conditions.  The two of us sailed a junk > rigged Newbridge Navigator for two weeks, which because the mast and > centre of effort was further back than it should be was very > difficult to tack at low speeds especially in a bit of a chop. > Occasionally it needed the motor to bring it round.  Previously we > had sailed a little junk rigged day boat that tacked like a dream > and we tacked up river back and forth through a line of moored > yachts with no problem.  We have sailed on junk rigs of all sorts > including a catamaran and a steel Roberts Spray.  Off the wind they > are all stars. On the wind performance varies. Many junks owners now > use hinged battens or camber cut sails or the twist of a fanned sail > and get good performance on the wind.  For us the junk rig suits > mainly because of its ease of handling and my wife likes the look of > them and we base that view on our experience of bermudan (marconi) > gaff and junk rigs on boats from 13" to 70" (a 1913 built gaff rig > ketch.  We build and sail boats for personal enjoyment. > Regards, > Ted > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > SPONSORED LINKS > Yacht > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Yacht&w1=Yacht&w2=Victoria+bc&c=2&s=28&.sig=RTd-j7_PClPYBL3HeWCpfw> > Victoria bc > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Victoria+bc&w1=Yacht&w2=Victoria+bc&c=2&s=28&.sig=qKvzqakjCGPWmAOg75otfg> > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > >     *  Visit your group "origamiboats >       <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats>" on the web. > >     *  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >        origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com >  > <mailto:origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe> > >     *  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of >       Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>. > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >   [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]     To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:  origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links          To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com     SPONSORED LINKS  Yacht Victoria bc   --------------------------------- YAHOO! 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9439|9395|2005-11-04 16:49:02|Leif Thomsen|SV: [origamiboats] Re: Junk Rigged Swain?|Ted,  Battens on Beatrice are made of aluminum tubes, and the hinges are also made of aluminum with a pin and built in stop. Two hinges on each batten exept in the top section (one hinge). The stop creates the air foil shape of the sail on both tacks. I have been on the boat in light winds and she tacks just fine. Regarding the performance of the sails I think the airfoil shape is essential and test between junks with and without hinged battens shows the difference. But at the end I don´t think junk rigs will be as god as modern rigs close to the wind, but the difference is becoming so small that the other advantages of the rig makes the choice easy, at least for me. The main advantages for us (me and my wife)are : Ease of handling = increased safety. Only two sails, and they are always in place. Cost - the entire rig and sails are perfect for DIY. The boat will sail more upright since the healing forces are lower than with traditional rigs.  For those of You interested in learning more - welcome to the sister group here at yahoo - "junkrig".  Regards Leif  -----Ursprungligt meddelande----- Från: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com [mailto:origamiboats@yahoogroups.com]För edward_stoneuk Skickat: den 4 november 2005 19:51 Till: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Ämne: SV: [origamiboats] Re: Junk Rigged Swain?   Leif, Thanks for your message.  I have seen a photograph of Sten Hellsten's Beatrice in the JRA Newsletter 45.  A very impressive boat by all accounts.  How where the batten hinges made?  I am not at that stage yet, but for the masts I have two tapered 3mm steel light poles that will be welded to flanges that will bolt to flanges welded to the deck.  There will be pipes connecting these flanges to the bottom of the hull.  The forward mast flange and pipe support is already tacked in place.  It leans forward 8° to get the centre of effort forward. Although the forward mast is out of the way being in a narrow part of the hull the mainmast support will be in the way a bit. However I will use it as the corner of the heads cabin and so it will be less obtrusive.  Brent's deck stepped masts have advantages. Regards, Ted       To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links|
9440|9395|2005-11-04 16:50:27|brentswain38|SV: [origamiboats] Re: Junk Rigged Swain?|We had a regatta a few years back, the junks consistenly outsailed  the marconi rigs downwind, but lost abysmally upwind, pinting on  average 30 degrees lower. People I met sailing deep sea with junk  rigs said they literally ate themselves with chafe.A 44 ft junk I  know of has 300 feet of running rigging. Two junks I know of sailed  for mexico a couple of year ago and ended up motoring the whole way.  One , who we marconi rigged boat sailed circles around , claims ,  while showing a video of us sailing circles around him claims to be  outsailing us. I left Mexico in 1988 at the same time as a junk  rigged 40 footer who was well known for bullshitting up the  performance of his junk rig. We sailed the same route back to BC. I  took 38 days , he took 57 days.   Junk rigs get their reputation for sailing performance by sailing at  warp speed, speed only attainable by warping the truth.It appers that  to be a junk rig enthusiast  the first qualification is the ability  to bullshit excessively without conscience, or to believe your own  bulshit.  There is nothing simple about a junk rig ,with hundreds of feet of  running rigging. You don't walk into a used sailing equipment shop ,  buy a sail for a junk rig , hoist it and go sailing within the hour ,  like you do with a marconi rig. You have to build everything from  scratch.Nothing simple about having to build a junk sail from  scratch.Used marconi sails are commonly available for a fraction the  cost of materials, let alone labour. Brent Brent  --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Carl Volkwein  <carlvolkwein@y...> wrote:  > > I read a book"practical junk rig" don't remember the author, but he   made them seem pretty good. I don't remember all the points, but they  are simple, don't requier a lot of control lines, etc., low tech, and  keel steped masts with no stays or shrouds,(the stays are in the  mast), also he used solid wooden masts, but said you could use  aluminum flag poles instead.  >   >     I beleav H.G.Hastler tried to "improve" the chinese rig, he had   says and a western headsail, but kept most of the rigs good looks  I  haven't seen what Bolger did?  >   >                   Carl Volkwein fron W.V. >  > tom <tazmann@i...> wrote: > I too wouldnt mind hereing more about junk rigs- not knowing   anything about   > them. I am curious though how did they come up with the name Junk   rig ?   > seems like it could have ben named something a little better > ----- Original Message -----  > From: "Michael Collins" <boats@A...> > To: <origamiboats@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Friday, November 04, 2005 11:13 AM > Subject: Re: SV: [origamiboats] Re: Junk Rigged Swain? >  >  > I, for one, am very interested in hearing more about Junk Rigs.  I   would  > hope you would continue your discussion on this list.  I personally > would like to know more of the details of how these rigs can be   improved  > in performance close to the wind.   Polite debates are very   educational  > for those of  us with less experience. > - Michael >  > Leif Thomsen wrote: >  > > Ted, > > > > I am also building my second Junk rigged yacht. A 50 feet steel > > scooner. My > > first one was a 39 feet scooner also. Have some experinace of   other  > > junks as > > well. If You have seen Beatrice, a Swedish 45 feet ketch junk, I   know  > > quite > > a lot of the building process and details of masts (stainless   steel),  > > hinged > > battens and so on. If You want more info, pls contact me outside   group if  > > you want, because this group is perhaps not that interested in   junks :-)  > > Regards, > > Leif Thomsen > > > > -----Ursprungligt meddelande----- > > Från: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:origamiboats@yahoogroups.com]För edward_stoneuk > > Skickat: den 4 november 2005 15:47 > > Till: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > Ämne: [origamiboats] Re: Junk Rigged Swain? > > > > > > My wife and I are building Swain a 36, which we will rig as a > > schooner junk.  We belong to the Junk Rig Association and The   Heart  > > of England Offshore Cruising Association so have experience of a > > variety of boats, rigs and conditions.  The two of us sailed a   junk  > > rigged Newbridge Navigator for two weeks, which because the mast   and  > > centre of effort was further back than it should be was very > > difficult to tack at low speeds especially in a bit of a chop. > > Occasionally it needed the motor to bring it round.  Previously we > > had sailed a little junk rigged day boat that tacked like a dream > > and we tacked up river back and forth through a line of moored > > yachts with no problem.  We have sailed on junk rigs of all sorts > > including a catamaran and a steel Roberts Spray.  Off the wind   they  > > are all stars. On the wind performance varies. Many junks owners   now  > > use hinged battens or camber cut sails or the twist of a fanned   sail  > > and get good performance on the wind.  For us the junk rig suits > > mainly because of its ease of handling and my wife likes the look   of  > > them and we base that view on our experience of bermudan (marconi) > > gaff and junk rigs on boats from 13" to 70" (a 1913 built gaff rig > > ketch.  We build and sail boats for personal enjoyment. > > Regards, > > Ted > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > SPONSORED LINKS > > Yacht > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?  t=ms&k=Yacht&w1=Yacht&w2=Victoria+bc&c=2&s=28&.sig=RTd- j7_PClPYBL3HeWCpfw>  > > Victoria bc > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?  t=ms&k=Victoria+bc&w1=Yacht&w2=Victoria+bc&c=2&s=28&.sig=qKvzqakjCGPWm AOg75otfg>  > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------  ------  > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > > >     *  Visit your group "origamiboats > >       <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats>" on the web. > > > >     *  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > >        origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > >  > > <mailto:origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?  subject=Unsubscribe>  > > > >     *  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! 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9441|9406|2005-11-04 16:56:40|brentswain38|Re: Breakdown on cost of construction|Costa Vida was launched one year after the steel arrived. My boat was  launched 30 days after the steeel arrived.  One couple built a 36 to their own design. When they left for Costa  Rica, the interior was bare foam and the engine was open in the  middle of the cabin. I saw them a couple of years ago, after they had  completed a circumnavigation and it was still bare foam with the  engine still in the open. They decided that going cruising was more  imprtant than style over substance priorities.They said that they had  got used to the " Cave" look."  When I began cruising my current boat I cruised and lived aboard for  many years before the foam was covered and the interior was done. As  I found a piece of plywood, I would cut it out and screw it down.  Lack of it didn't stop me from cruising. Brent  --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "mickeyolaf" <mickeyolaf@y...>  wrote:  > > One of my co-workers many years ago build from scratch a Mason 43   in   > Fiberglass. It took him 8 years. He was interviewed in Pacific  > Yachting at launch time. > When he was asked if he would do it again he said no. He had lost 8  > years of sailing and to make it worse it turned out his wife didn't  > like boating. One storm and she was out of there. > If you are building to build a boat is one thing. If you are  > building to go boating it is another. > Is it better to pay a professional to build something right in one  > tenth the time than to pay yourself nothing for eight years of  > labour? In my case I would rather work extra hard at my salary   (plus   > overtime)and then pay someone who really knows what they are doing  > than do it (and redo it?) myself at a snails pace. I want to get   out   > there sailing and I just don't have eight years to get there. > I've read many times that the hull is only 35% of the boat and its  > the extras that do us all in.  > If you have to pay storage for years, gas to and from your project  > for years, power for years, tooling up, skilling up etc what in the  > end have you really saved doing it yourself without help.  I quess  > if you can build at home there are some savings. >  >  >  >  > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Hallman <bruce@h...>  > wrote: > > > > On 11/2/05, richytill wrote: > > >  Construction cost of a vessel ... > >  > > You list a bunch of different types of costs, but > > leave out what I think are the two biggest catagories. > >  > > Labor and space. > >  > > [Both of these are time and location dependent.] > > Hiring help can speed up the job, reducing the > > cost of renting [or paying mortgage on] shop > > or boatyard space. > >  > > Doing all the work oneself, would extend the length > > of the job are requires paying more for your own living > > space & expense too. > >  > > Traveling to a place in the world with lower labor > > costs, or living costs is worth consideration too. > > > |
9442|9406|2005-11-04 16:58:48|brentswain38|Re: Breakdown on cost of construction|It's been said that with the US debt ,and if Iran decides to price  it's oil in Euros, the US dollar could drop to half it's current  rate. They don't need nukes to trash the US. Brent  --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Michael Casling <casling@s...>  wrote:  > > The Canadian dollar is about .85c to the US $. It might go to .88c   but the US $ is strengthening so it might go back down to .79c.  > At one time it was worth about $1.20 to the US $. > China is developing its capacity to manufacture steel so the price   demand may ease.  > Never trust anyone who makes future predications, as many things   can screw up the predictions.   > The above is from notes from financial meetings. >  > Michael >  >   ----- Original Message -----  >   From: tom  >   To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com  >   Sent: Thursday, November 03, 2005 5:02 AM >   Subject: Re: [origamiboats] Re: Breakdown on cost of construction >  >  >   Im in central part of California USA, By the way what is the   exchange rate   >   between Canada and US >  >   Tom >   ----- Original Message -----  >   From: "jericoera" <jericoera@y...> >   To: <origamiboats@yahoogroups.com> >   Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2005 10:03 PM >   Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Breakdown on cost of construction >  >  >   > What currency are you quoting? I am assuming US dollars as the >   > moniker TASMANUSA may imply you are south of us Canadians. >   > >   > CArl M> >   > >   > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "tom" <tazmann@i...> wrote: >   >> >   >>  I just recieved the steel for the 26 hull and transom today   and I  >   > paid 0.54 >   >> cents a pound not to bad considering steel prices of todays   market  >   > but that >   >> was for 20 foot sheets, to get 28 foot sheets would have cost   0.76  >   > cents a >   >> pound. Steel prices change day to day and you dont realy know   what  >   > it cost >   >> till the day you buy it.  I called one outfit that specialize   in  >   > the big >   >> sheets and the gal I talked to told me that if they were not   busy  >   > they would >   >> cut a couple 28ft sheets for me but they were busy so they   didnt  >   > want to >   >> mess with it unless I was willing to buy a truckload! I was   kinda  >   > shocked on >   >> that one, I was useing my welding buisness name- ohh well wont >   > ever call >   >> them again. >   >>   I was figuring around $2000 for all the steel on the 26 but I >   > think it >   >> will probably be 2500-$3000 >  >  >  >   To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com >   To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-  unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com   >  >  >  >   SPONSORED LINKS British columbia canada  Vancouver island    Victoria bc    >  >  > --------------------------------------------------------------------  ----------  >   YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS  >  >     a..  Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web. >        >     b..  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >      origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com >        >     c..  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms   of Service.   >  >  > --------------------------------------------------------------------  ----------  >  >  >  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > |
9443|9395|2005-11-04 17:01:16|brentswain38|Re: Junk Rigged Swain?|The centre of gravity of ther junk mast tends to be in the ends which  increases hobby horsing going to windward , which junks don't do ,  which may make it an acedemic point only. Brent  --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, RICHARD KOKEMOOR <rhko47@y...>  wrote:  > > I'm unaware ( thank god ) of any of my boats being riged with a   Junk     > ( garbage ) rig. > Brent > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/junkrig/files/42%27%20Steel%20Brent%  20Swain%20junk%20schooner./  >   > When I build, I am also planning a junk rig.  The principal   modifications are placement of the mast(s) and provision for keel  stepping of the (unstayed) mast(s).  This necessarily changes the  accomodation somewhat.  A potential concern is the placement of a  heavy unstayed mast well forward, as the junk rig demands, but even a  solid timber mast of the required strength (7.5 inches diameter for  the 26 footer, tapering to half that at the masthead, ~200 lbs by my  calculations) does not seem significantly heavier than a stayed metal  mast and its rigging, and its center of gravity is lower.  >  > 		 > --------------------------------- >  Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click.   >  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > |
9444|9395|2005-11-04 17:02:28|brentswain38|SV: [origamiboats] Re: Junk Rigged Swain?|I've heard of small airplaneds having 2X4s tied to the tops of their  wings to eliminate lift so they won't blow away. With the mast on a  junk rig on one side of the sail, lift is impossible on one tack. It  doesn't appear this will be solved anytime soon.Nor will the  complexity of so many yards of running rigging. Brent  --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Michael Collins <boats@A...>  wrote:  > > I, for one, am very interested in hearing more about Junk Rigs.  I   would   > hope you would continue your discussion on this list.  I personally  > would like to know more of the details of how these rigs can be   improved   > in performance close to the wind.   Polite debates are very   educational   > for those of  us with less experience. > - Michael >  > Leif Thomsen wrote: >  > > Ted, > > > > I am also building my second Junk rigged yacht. A 50 feet steel  > > scooner. My > > first one was a 39 feet scooner also. Have some experinace of   other   > > junks as > > well. If You have seen Beatrice, a Swedish 45 feet ketch junk, I   know   > > quite > > a lot of the building process and details of masts (stainless   steel),   > > hinged > > battens and so on. If You want more info, pls contact me outside   group if  > > you want, because this group is perhaps not that interested in   junks :-)  > > Regards, > > Leif Thomsen > > > > -----Ursprungligt meddelande----- > > Från: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:origamiboats@yahoogroups.com]För edward_stoneuk > > Skickat: den 4 november 2005 15:47 > > Till: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > Ämne: [origamiboats] Re: Junk Rigged Swain? > > > > > > My wife and I are building Swain a 36, which we will rig as a > > schooner junk.  We belong to the Junk Rig Association and The   Heart  > > of England Offshore Cruising Association so have experience of a > > variety of boats, rigs and conditions.  The two of us sailed a   junk  > > rigged Newbridge Navigator for two weeks, which because the mast   and  > > centre of effort was further back than it should be was very > > difficult to tack at low speeds especially in a bit of a chop. > > Occasionally it needed the motor to bring it round.  Previously we > > had sailed a little junk rigged day boat that tacked like a dream > > and we tacked up river back and forth through a line of moored > > yachts with no problem.  We have sailed on junk rigs of all sorts > > including a catamaran and a steel Roberts Spray.  Off the wind   they  > > are all stars. On the wind performance varies. Many junks owners   now  > > use hinged battens or camber cut sails or the twist of a fanned   sail  > > and get good performance on the wind.  For us the junk rig suits > > mainly because of its ease of handling and my wife likes the look   of  > > them and we base that view on our experience of bermudan (marconi) > > gaff and junk rigs on boats from 13" to 70" (a 1913 built gaff rig > > ketch.  We build and sail boats for personal enjoyment. > > Regards, > > Ted > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:  > > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > SPONSORED LINKS > > Yacht  > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?  t=ms&k=Yacht&w1=Yacht&w2=Victoria+bc&c=2&s=28&.sig=RTd- j7_PClPYBL3HeWCpfw>   > > 	Victoria bc  > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?  t=ms&k=Victoria+bc&w1=Yacht&w2=Victoria+bc&c=2&s=28&.sig=qKvzqakjCGPWm AOg75otfg>   > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------  ------  > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > > >     *  Visit your group "origamiboats > >       <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats>" on the web. > >         > >     *  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > >        origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > >       <mailto:origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?  subject=Unsubscribe>  > >         > >     *  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > >       Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>. > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------  ------  > > >  >  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > |
9445|9406|2005-11-04 17:04:43|brentswain38|Re: Breakdown on cost of construction|I've known many builders , who, if they hadn't had a boat to dump their  money into, would have blown the works and had nothing to show for it.  That also has to be taken into consideration. What if youdidn't build a  boat? Brent   --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Hallman <bruce@h...> wrote: > > >  you build.  I suspect that many builders view boatbuilding as a  hobby > >  and do not count labour as a cost. >  > I too consider it a hobby, [working on boat #11 now], > and don't keep track of the labor (or material) cost > for that reason. > |
9446|9406|2005-11-04 17:11:46|brentswain38|Re: Breakdown on cost of construction|Sounds like you got a good deal.  Making your hatches up early and thus making the boat lockable could  save a lot of time putting tools away at the end of every  day. Brent   --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "richytill" <tillrc@h...> wrote: > > Brent, >  > The yard I built in charged $450 a month for outdoor space and a  > cabin to rent.  This meant I had a place to live with the boat  right  > on the doorstep.  The time saved by being next to a welding shop  > (with a bicycle for transportation to supplies) would be  > significant.  An argument could be made that the quicker you build  > (ie. quit your day job) the less the cost of rentals and start/stop  > time.  When you work a 12 hr day you only set out and pack up tools  > once in 12 hrs.  Spread that out 12 hrs over 4 evenings and you  have  > a lot of start/stop time.   >  > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "brentswain38"  > <brentswain38@h...> wrote: > > > > Most of my boats are built outside. Very few are built inside.  Most  > > people do most of their own labour, and treat the project like a  > > hobbie. Hiring someone who has built a lot of boats to jump start  > you  > > from time to time,cuts the time and thus the rent costs. The  > cheapest  > > rent lately has been $20  month and most people get a space for  > > around $100 a month. For a one year project that works out to  > $1200,  > > tiny compared to the value of the boat. > > Brent > >  > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Hallman <bruce@h...>  > wrote: > > > > > > On 11/2/05, richytill wrote: > > > >  Construction cost of a vessel ... > > >  > > > You list a bunch of different types of costs, but > > > leave out what I think are the two biggest catagories. > > >  > > > Labor and space. > > >  > > > [Both of these are time and location dependent.] > > > Hiring help can speed up the job, reducing the > > > cost of renting [or paying mortgage on] shop > > > or boatyard space. > > >  > > > Doing all the work oneself, would extend the length > > > of the job are requires paying more for your own living > > > space & expense too. > > >  > > > Traveling to a place in the world with lower labor > > > costs, or living costs is worth consideration too. > > > > > > |
9447|9395|2005-11-04 17:13:56|Leif Thomsen|SV: SV: [origamiboats] Re: Junk Rigged Swain?|Michael,  Brent wrote:  "It appers that to be a junk rig enthusiast  the first qualification is the ability to bullshit excessively without conscience, or to believe your own bulshit."  After a statement like that my entusiasm of writing more about junk rigged boats have dampened a bit...... I try, both in my profession and also private to keep discussions fact based and if that failes I will end the discussion.  Regards, Leif  -----Ursprungligt meddelande----- Från: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com [mailto:origamiboats@yahoogroups.com]För Michael Collins Skickat: den 4 november 2005 20:13 Till: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Ämne: Re: SV: [origamiboats] Re: Junk Rigged Swain?   I, for one, am very interested in hearing more about Junk Rigs.  I would hope you would continue your discussion on this list.  I personally would like to know more of the details of how these rigs can be improved in performance close to the wind.   Polite debates are very educational for those of  us with less experience. - Michael|
9448|9395|2005-11-04 17:45:15|cirejay|SV: SV: [origamiboats] Re: Junk Rigged Swain?|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Leif Thomsen" <leif@l...>  wrote:    > Brent wrote: >  > "It appers that > to be a junk rig enthusiast  the first qualification is the ability > to bullshit excessively without conscience, or to believe your own > bulshit." >  > After a statement like that my entusiasm of writing more about   junk rigged  > boats have dampened a bit...... I try, both in my profession and   also  > private to keep discussions fact based and if that failes I will   end the  > discussion.   Leif, I've only been a member of this group for a short period of  time and one of my first - maybe my first - post was to take him on  when he attacked the inventor of the AirHead toilet.    I was quite sure that all the 'true believers' would immediately  jump on my case.  Boy was I ever wrong. In fact, the other members  of this group had already discounted Brent's attack; more to the  point, they had ignored it.  What I have found is that Brent is respected for what he is, a  talented, hard working innovator, and tolerated for what he isn't,  civil.  I'm not defending this lack of civility but think that,  while it may not be adorable, it just may be ignorable.  Please, for the rest of us, add whatever you can to our knowledge of  junk rigs, or anything else for that matter.  eric S/V Nebaras|
9449|9395|2005-11-04 21:06:25|Wesley Cox|Re: SV: SV: [origamiboats] Re: Junk Rigged Swain?|I was going to hold my tongue (pen, keyboard?), but cannot.  Myself, I ignored the attacks on Brent regarding the airhead toilet, not  Brent's post.  I don't propose to speak for Brent by any means, but to  judge Brent's quote of this thread as uncivilized I see as  presumptuous.  Quite possibly Brent was intending to be "uncivilized",  abrasive, etc.  Another possibility is that he made an extrapolation, a  generalization, of the specific example to which he referred.  I  personally think Brent has colorful, direct opinions which I  appreciate.  There should be more of us like him.  If we look past some feathers getting ruffled by his one statement, he  also offered several factual points regarding the inadequacies of the  junk rig, based on his experience in general and specific experiences of  others.  I very much appreciate Brent's direct, practical, efficient approaches  to problem solving (if you don't have his book, it's worth every  penny).  For those capable of seeing the brilliance of his methods, does  anyone doubt that an individual not so direct and brutally honest could  ever (originally) conceive Brent's brutally direct and simple  techniques?  I can't imagine anyone politically correct, used to dancing  around bullshit, being able to cut through it the way Brent does, either  in their literal or practical work.  I also *very much* appreciate Brent sharing his wisdom with the rest of  us on this group, *free of charge*!!   cirejay wrote:   >--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Leif Thomsen" <leif@l...>  >wrote: >  >   > >>Brent wrote: >> >>"It appers that >>to be a junk rig enthusiast  the first qualification is the ability >>to bullshit excessively without conscience, or to believe your own >>bulshit." >> >>After a statement like that my entusiasm of writing more about  >>     >> >junk rigged >   > >>boats have dampened a bit...... I try, both in my profession and  >>     >> >also >   > >>private to keep discussions fact based and if that failes I will  >>     >> >end the >   > >>discussion. >>     >> > >Leif, I've only been a member of this group for a short period of  >time and one of my first - maybe my first - post was to take him on  >when he attacked the inventor of the AirHead toilet.   > >I was quite sure that all the 'true believers' would immediately  >jump on my case.  Boy was I ever wrong. In fact, the other members  >of this group had already discounted Brent's attack; more to the  >point, they had ignored it. > >What I have found is that Brent is respected for what he is, a  >talented, hard working innovator, and tolerated for what he isn't,  >civil.  I'm not defending this lack of civility but think that,  >while it may not be adorable, it just may be ignorable. > >Please, for the rest of us, add whatever you can to our knowledge of  >junk rigs, or anything else for that matter. > >eric S/V Nebaras > > > > > > > >To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com >To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com  >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > >  > > > >   > |
9450|9395|2005-11-04 21:37:44|cirejay|SV: SV: [origamiboats] Re: Junk Rigged Swain?|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Wesley Cox <inspirfe@d...>  wrote:  > > I was going to hold my tongue (pen, keyboard?), but cannot. >  > Myself, I ignored the attacks on Brent regarding the airhead   toilet, not   > Brent's post.  I don't propose to speak for Brent by any means,   but to   > judge Brent's quote of this thread as uncivilized I see as  > presumptuous.  Quite possibly Brent was intending to   be "uncivilized",   > abrasive, etc.  Another possibility is that he made an   extrapolation, a   > generalization, of the specific example to which he referred.  I  > personally think Brent has colorful, direct opinions which I  > appreciate.  There should be more of us like him. >  > If we look past some feathers getting ruffled by his one   statement, he   > also offered several factual points regarding the inadequacies of   the   > junk rig, based on his experience in general and specific   experiences of   > others. >  > I very much appreciate Brent's direct, practical, efficient   approaches   > to problem solving (if you don't have his book, it's worth every  > penny).  For those capable of seeing the brilliance of his   methods, does   > anyone doubt that an individual not so direct and brutally honest   could   > ever (originally) conceive Brent's brutally direct and simple  > techniques?  I can't imagine anyone politically correct, used to   dancing   > around bullshit, being able to cut through it the way Brent does,   either   > in their literal or practical work. >  > I also *very much* appreciate Brent sharing his wisdom with the   rest of   > us on this group, *free of charge*!!   If I were to be civil, I would say that it sounds like you are  pretty much agreeing with what I said.  However, in keeping with  your wish, "There should be more of us like him", to quote  Brent, "Bullshit"  Have a nice day :-)  eric S/V Nebaras|
9451|9395|2005-11-05 01:33:58|jericoera|SV: SV: [origamiboats] Re: Junk Rigged Swain?|Well, I started this junked rig business so I figure I should weigh  in.   The junk rig first of all will unequivocally not work well on every  hull type. They were desined for the draft type common to the junk  hull.  Brent is right when he says windward ability is not known to be  wonderful with junk rigs. They were never designed to go to  windward. What the attractionis for people is that they can be  reefed in a snap repotedly with one hand in some instances while  sipping coffee in the other. They also are free standing so you  don't have compression loading on the mast. Having said that they  will take more strain bending laterally without any stays.  Generally speaking the fore mast in a schooner set up with the junk  will be raked forward 5-10 degrees which supposedly helps going to  windward.  The newest improvements are high aspect junk sails and one pro junk  sail designer is out of the U.K. at :  http://www.sailsandcanvas.co.uk/  The sails don't come cheap but then you save on rigging costs of a  marconi rig though I may get some arguement there.  Myself, I think both rigs have advantages. You don't require big  expensive winches with a junk if it is properly rigged and down wind  you should see good performance.    Its very much like bilge keels versus the regular keel affair. Each  have a purpose and specific shortcomings and advantages--like  everything its a trade off.   If you aren't planning to anchor in shallow spots or dry the boat  out , maybe you don't need bilge keels. If you like the old square  riggers are going downwind and trying to follow the old shipping  routes, then a junk sail might work fine for you. On the other hand,  if you like slogging it out into the wind and not using your iron  spinnaker (engine) while going to wind , then by far the marconi rig  will be the choice.  People have made circumnavigations without engines! For me , I would  prefer one to at least get me off the lee shore when necessary. Each  to their own.  Thoughts from an armschair sailor  Carl McIntosh|
9452|9452|2005-11-05 01:45:47|jericoera|Practical junk rig|For anyone interested in how these rigs are actually meant to work,  I have found the best book to read to be by HASLER and McLeod called  the practical junk rig.  Besides promoting the hell out of junk sails, it shows exactly how  they work and how to rig them and is a real technical look at the  junk rig.   One desinger in the Uk built his own personal bilge keeler and junk  rigged it. He admits that he doesn't do much better than 50 degrees  pointing into the wind but he rationalizes that in the open Ocean he  has lots of room to tack and that because you can tack so easily  with the balanced sails of the junk rig he arrives refreshed even  though he has tacked more than the marconi rigged travellers who are  winding winches.  That may be debatable as the marconi rigged people may very well  beat him to the anchorages and have a few days of resting up.  From what i could see of Brent's jog stick system to the trim tab, I  don't think it would be easy to refine simplicity much more than  that--two finger steering on a boat that outweighs you many times  over? What's not to like about that?  Carl M|
9453|9452|2005-11-05 02:28:42|Leif Thomsen|SV: [origamiboats] Practical junk rig|Carl M,  The book "Junk Practical Junk Rig" is somewhat of a bible when starting to learn more about the rig, but there has been quite a considerable developement of the rig during the past 10 years. Mostly done in UK and Norway. And its mostly about bending battens for improwing windward ability. Junk Rig Association and Sunbird Yachts (Robin Blain) are good sources for more learning.  Regards, Leif  -----Ursprungligt meddelande----- Från: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com [mailto:origamiboats@yahoogroups.com]För jericoera Skickat: den 5 november 2005 07:45 Till: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Ämne: [origamiboats] Practical junk rig   For anyone interested in how these rigs are actually meant to work, I have found the best book to read to be by HASLER and McLeod called the practical junk rig.  Besides promoting the hell out of junk sails, it shows exactly how they work and how to rig them and is a real technical look at the junk rig.  One desinger in the Uk built his own personal bilge keeler and junk rigged it. He admits that he doesn't do much better than 50 degrees pointing into the wind but he rationalizes that in the open Ocean he has lots of room to tack and that because you can tack so easily with the balanced sails of the junk rig he arrives refreshed even though he has tacked more than the marconi rigged travellers who are winding winches.  That may be debatable as the marconi rigged people may very well beat him to the anchorages and have a few days of resting up.   >From what i could see of Brent's jog stick system to the trim tab, I  don't think it would be easy to refine simplicity much more than that--two finger steering on a boat that outweighs you many times over? What's not to like about that?  Carl M       To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links|
9454|9395|2005-11-05 03:43:31|Earl|Re: SV: [origamiboats] Re: Junk Rigged Swain?|Don't hold back now, Eric.  Tell us how you really feel....   ----- Original Message ----- From: "cirejay" <cirejay@...> To: <origamiboats@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, November 04, 2005 9:36 PM Subject: SV: SV: [origamiboats] Re: Junk Rigged Swain?   > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Wesley Cox <inspirfe@d...> > wrote: > > > > I was going to hold my tongue (pen, keyboard?), but cannot. > > > > Myself, I ignored the attacks on Brent regarding the airhead > toilet, not > > Brent's post.  I don't propose to speak for Brent by any means, > but to > > judge Brent's quote of this thread as uncivilized I see as > > presumptuous.  Quite possibly Brent was intending to > be "uncivilized", > > abrasive, etc.  Another possibility is that he made an > extrapolation, a > > generalization, of the specific example to which he referred.  I > > personally think Brent has colorful, direct opinions which I > > appreciate.  There should be more of us like him. > > > > If we look past some feathers getting ruffled by his one > statement, he > > also offered several factual points regarding the inadequacies of > the > > junk rig, based on his experience in general and specific > experiences of > > others. > > > > I very much appreciate Brent's direct, practical, efficient > approaches > > to problem solving (if you don't have his book, it's worth every > > penny).  For those capable of seeing the brilliance of his > methods, does > > anyone doubt that an individual not so direct and brutally honest > could > > ever (originally) conceive Brent's brutally direct and simple > > techniques?  I can't imagine anyone politically correct, used to > dancing > > around bullshit, being able to cut through it the way Brent does, > either > > in their literal or practical work. > > > > I also *very much* appreciate Brent sharing his wisdom with the > rest of > > us on this group, *free of charge*!! > > If I were to be civil, I would say that it sounds like you are > pretty much agreeing with what I said.  However, in keeping with > your wish, "There should be more of us like him", to quote > Brent, "Bullshit" > > Have a nice day :-) > > eric S/V Nebaras > > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > |
9455|9395|2005-11-05 05:28:17|sae140|Re: Junk Rigged Swain?|Thomas Colvin - who has a few sailing miles under his keel - favours  junk rig for his own boats over all others.  I don't really think Tom  C can be described as a bullshitter (!).  He includes a jib on his junk-rigged 'Gazelle' design, but Gazelle  owners find it doesn't add a great deal and apparently most don't use  the jib in practice.   Many years ago Tom ran some comparative tests (Marconi, Gaff,  Junk (which he calls "Chinese Lug")) on an identical hull.   He concluded: "My conclusion is that the jib-headed rig is  given more credit for efficiency than it deserves.  The gaff  rig is by no means obsolete and when properly designed can be  as efficient as the jib-headed rig.  The Chinese lug rig, as  ancient as it is, can still give western rigs a run for their money."  And Tom wasn't using the latest junk rig developments  in his tests.  I don't understand comments such as, "We sailed the same route  back to BC. I took 38 days , he took 57 days."  So - was it a  race then ?  Maybe the slower boat was more comfortable.  Maybe  they had more *fun* ?  If you're cruising - what's the advantage  of the extra speed ?  Some of us sail to be out on the water,  not to get off it as soon as possible !  Having sailed junk (only coastal so far), I wouldn't willingly  go back to a Marconi sloop - gaff cutter maybe, but not Marconi.  Colin|
9456|9395|2005-11-05 08:05:20|cirejay|SV: [origamiboats] Re: Junk Rigged Swain?|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Earl" <eb3br2ba@h...> wrote:  > > Don't hold back now, Eric.  Tell us how you really feel....   LOL  eric S/V Nebaras|
9457|9395|2005-11-05 09:43:31|sae140|A lot of string ??  (was Re: Junk Rigged Swain?)|Brent writes: "A 44 ft junk I know of has 300 feet of  running rigging"  Yep - it seems a lot - until you take a *close* look  at the marconi equivalent.  I wouldn't want to estimate the rigging required for  such a big boat, but just looking at a Marconi-rigged  31ft Swain there's also a lot of rigging required -  and to be fair when making a comparison, let's include  standing rigging too - on say, a 40ft mast.  Shrouds - c. 200 ft. Twin fore-stays - c. 90ft Single backstay with 'Y' - c. 50ft Twin jib halyards (to cockpit) - c. 180ft Main halyard - c. 90ft Mainsheet (sure, depends on purchase) - c. 100ft Jibsheet - c. 50ft.  That's a cool 760 ft - not including spinnaker uphauls/ downhauls etc - or the vang or boom outhauls or reefing  lines and all the other odds and sods.  Admittedly, there's a lot of guestimating in the above -  but there is a *lot* of string on all boats, but due to  familiarity you just don't notice it on conventional rigs.  The length of a junk mainsheet *does* present a special  problem - but is easily solved by using a reel.  Colin|
9458|9395|2005-11-05 13:50:14|edward_stoneuk|Re: Junk Rigged Swain?|The advantage of a junk rig that interests me most is the easy  reefing and tacking.  To reef one lets the halyard go and the weight  of the battens bring the sail down between the lazy jacks until  enough is reefed and one cleats off the halyard.  One doesn't need  to leave the safety of the pilot house, just pop ones head and  shoulders out to unhitch the halyard which is cleated on the pilot  house roof.  No need to balance on the cabin roof to struggle with  the sail as the boom dances about and the slides jam in the track.   This might not be an issue when you are young and fit but it sure is  when you get older.  In crowded waters and you want to slow or stop?  Just let the sheet out and the sail weathercocks without flapping  and flogging.  Want to tack up a river? Just push the tiller over  and round she comes, if the design is right of course. One can do  this from inside the pilot house.  No pulling on jib sheets and  winching them in and then doing the same a few seconds later.    Gybing by accident or design?  Because part of the sail is forward  of the mast it doesn't slam round like a marconi or gaff so one  isn't likely to be knocked unconscious by the boom.  Want to go to  windward?  Start the engine.  Although to be fair many junks I've  sailed on were good enough to windward.  Junks aren't the answer to  every thing but the do have virtues for a safe cruising rig and they  go well with a pilot house as the sails can be handled from the  sliding hatch. Some junk rigged boats have the running rigging  brought inside the pilot house and then there is very little reason  to go outside.   I do have concerns about the fore mast weight up at the bow causing  hobby horsing.  I asked Brent some time ago if his boats tended to  bury their noses but he said they have plenty of reserve bouyancy so  we should  be OK.  Time will tell.  Regards, Ted|
9459|9459|2005-11-05 13:57:19|mkriley@fuse.net|Re: Digest Number 1363 re: junk rig|I had my lunch eaten by a steel junk rigged gazelle in very light airs . I still remember listening to the pullys sqeeking in the running rigging as I was passed. I had everything up but my underware. made a believer out of me.  I was in a pearson 30. mike|
9460|9395|2005-11-05 15:10:08|Gerd|Re: Junk Rigged Swain?|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "edward_stoneuk"  <tedstone@g...> wrote:  > > The advantage of a junk rig that interests me most is the easy  > reefing and tacking.     That's a main point for sure.  I have done delivery trips, biscay to mallorca round spain on 57'  production yachts. They had fully battened mains with lazyjacks,  plus electric winches. Reefing was was so easy that I kept adjusting  sail to changing winds all the time, whereas on a "normal" boat I  would have just left the reef in, especially in the night, and in  the end we made excellent times.  As I was alone with a sea-sick girfriend, I was scared all the time  that the equipment might fail, slides jam etc, but as long as it  worked it was fantastic. Fully controlled sail, no flapping, no  wear, no noise and just push the button to set or reduce sail.  I guess that in pure passage time you might get equally good results  with a junk  - but for a fraction of the cost of course ;-)|
9461|9461|2005-11-05 15:22:17|evanmoonjunk|Junk rig banter|Hi Gang, just a couple of comments, don't need to add much as the  subject is being well covered. I have some experience with Marconi and  Junk rigs and there are features about both that I like and dislike.  As discussed everything is a compromise. The only thing I would like  to add, for those who are thinking of building with the junk rig, I  would suggest building with the fittings for both rigs so your options  are covered. This is what I am planning to do with my next boat...Evan|
9462|9461|2005-11-05 16:30:42|edward_stoneuk|Re: Junk rig banter|Evan, That's not a bad idea.  How will you rig your next boat to start with? Regards, Ted|
9463|9463|2005-11-05 20:28:30|tazmannusa|Help- Plans|Hello  I cant seem to find the info on the plans or the book on deck beems,  What is the spacing and camber of them and allso does the cabin top  need them? Im building the BS26 as desighned Any help would be appreciated Thanks Tom|
9464|9395|2005-11-05 23:41:38|mickeyolaf|SV: SV: [origamiboats] Re: Junk Rigged Swain?|Rigs have been evolving for hundreds of years. Lighter, stronger, safer, longer lasting.  A  boat needs a sail plan that makes the boat go, stands up in a blow, can be reduced, goes  to windward and is easily single handed. It also should look right. (A cutter!!) I was in Hong Kong this year. There are Junks still in the harbour and over in Stanley. They  don't look very sturdy and definately don't have an offshore look. They look graceful  (except the ones covered in blue poly tarps), ancient and flimsy. Junk rigs don't suit modern hulls and cabins. They suit Junks. Don't we all want our boats  to look good as well as perform?             --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "jericoera" <jericoera@y...> wrote: > > Well, I started this junked rig business so I figure I should weigh  > in.  >  > The junk rig first of all will unequivocally not work well on every  > hull type. They were desined for the draft type common to the junk  > hull. >  > Brent is right when he says windward ability is not known to be  > wonderful with junk rigs. They were never designed to go to  > windward. What the attractionis for people is that they can be  > reefed in a snap repotedly with one hand in some instances while  > sipping coffee in the other. They also are free standing so you  > don't have compression loading on the mast. Having said that they  > will take more strain bending laterally without any stays. >  > Generally speaking the fore mast in a schooner set up with the junk  > will be raked forward 5-10 degrees which supposedly helps going to  > windward. >  > The newest improvements are high aspect junk sails and one pro junk  > sail designer is out of the U.K. at :  > http://www.sailsandcanvas.co.uk/ >  > The sails don't come cheap but then you save on rigging costs of a  > marconi rig though I may get some arguement there. >  > Myself, I think both rigs have advantages. You don't require big  > expensive winches with a junk if it is properly rigged and down wind  > you should see good performance.   >  > Its very much like bilge keels versus the regular keel affair. Each  > have a purpose and specific shortcomings and advantages--like  > everything its a trade off.  >  > If you aren't planning to anchor in shallow spots or dry the boat  > out , maybe you don't need bilge keels. If you like the old square  > riggers are going downwind and trying to follow the old shipping  > routes, then a junk sail might work fine for you. On the other hand,  > if you like slogging it out into the wind and not using your iron  > spinnaker (engine) while going to wind , then by far the marconi rig  > will be the choice. >  > People have made circumnavigations without engines! For me , I would  > prefer one to at least get me off the lee shore when necessary. Each  > to their own. >  > Thoughts from an armschair sailor >  > Carl McIntosh > |
9465|9395|2005-11-05 23:52:32|Jerry Scovel|Re: SV: SV: [origamiboats] Re: Junk Rigged Swain?|Junks are sturdy cargo boats meant for rivers and coastal waters but I have seen them on the open ocean. Many of the junks that you see are hundreds of years old, passed down from generations that built boats to last. They do not handle as well as modern boats because they are built as work boats, not pleasure craft. If anyone hjas a junk that they are tired of I will trade you a 1973 Javelin for it.   on 11/5/05 10:41 PM, mickeyolaf at mickeyolaf@... wrote:  Rigs have been evolving for hundreds of years. Lighter, stronger, safer, longer lasting.  A  boat needs a sail plan that makes the boat go, stands up in a blow, can be reduced, goes  to windward and is easily single handed. It also should look right. (A cutter!!) I was in Hong Kong this year. There are Junks still in the harbour and over in Stanley. They  don't look very sturdy and definately don't have an offshore look. They look graceful  (except the ones covered in blue poly tarps), ancient and flimsy. Junk rigs don't suit modern hulls and cabins. They suit Junks. Don't we all want our boats  to look good as well as perform?             --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "jericoera" <jericoera@y...> wrote: > > Well, I started this junked rig business so I figure I should weigh > in.  >  > The junk rig first of all will unequivocally not work well on every > hull type. They were desined for the draft type common to the junk > hull. >  > Brent is right when he says windward ability is not known to be > wonderful with junk rigs. They were never designed to go to > windward. What the attractionis for people is that they can be > reefed in a snap repotedly with one hand in some instances while > sipping coffee in the other. They also are free standing so you > don't have compression loading on the mast. Having said that they > will take more strain bending laterally without any stays. >  > Generally speaking the fore mast in a schooner set up with the junk > will be raked forward 5-10 degrees which supposedly helps going to > windward. >  > The newest improvements are high aspect junk sails and one pro junk > sail designer is out of the U.K. at : > http://www.sailsandcanvas.co.uk/ >  > The sails don't come cheap but then you save on rigging costs of a > marconi rig though I may get some arguement there. >  > Myself, I think both rigs have advantages. You don't require big > expensive winches with a junk if it is properly rigged and down wind > you should see good performance. >  > Its very much like bilge keels versus the regular keel affair. Each > have a purpose and specific shortcomings and advantages--like > everything its a trade off. >  > If you aren't planning to anchor in shallow spots or dry the boat > out , maybe you don't need bilge keels. If you like the old square > riggers are going downwind and trying to follow the old shipping > routes, then a junk sail might work fine for you. On the other hand, > if you like slogging it out into the wind and not using your iron > spinnaker (engine) while going to wind , then by far the marconi rig > will be the choice. >  > People have made circumnavigations without engines! For me , I would > prefer one to at least get me off the lee shore when necessary. Each > to their own. >  > Thoughts from an armschair sailor >  > Carl McIntosh >       To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com    SPONSORED LINKS         Yacht  <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Yacht&w1=Yacht&w2=Victoria+bc&c=2&s=28& .sig=RTd-j7_PClPYBL3HeWCpfw> Victoria bc <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Victoria+bc&w1=Yacht&w2=Victoria+bc&c=2 &s=28&.sig=qKvzqakjCGPWmAOg75otfg>    YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS   Visit your group "origamiboats <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats> " on the web.     To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:  origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <mailto:origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>    Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
9466|9395|2005-11-06 00:17:54|mickeyolaf|SV: SV: [origamiboats] Re: Junk Rigged Swain?|How about a SW 36 with a square sail, dragon head, oars and shields down both sides.  We'll raid Saltspring Island and make off with all of the damsels and grog.              --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Jerry Scovel <stcfarms@n...> wrote: > > Junks are sturdy cargo boats meant for rivers and coastal waters but I have > seen them on the open ocean. Many of the junks that you see are hundreds of > years old, passed down from generations that built boats to last. They do > not handle as well as modern boats because they are built as work boats, not > pleasure craft. If anyone hjas a junk that they are tired of I will trade > you a 1973 Javelin for it. >  >  > on 11/5/05 10:41 PM, mickeyolaf at mickeyolaf@y... wrote: >  > Rigs have been evolving for hundreds of years. Lighter, stronger, safer, > longer lasting.  A  > boat needs a sail plan that makes the boat go, stands up in a blow, can be > reduced, goes  > to windward and is easily single handed. It also should look right. (A > cutter!!) > I was in Hong Kong this year. There are Junks still in the harbour and over > in Stanley. They  > don't look very sturdy and definately don't have an offshore look. They look > graceful  > (except the ones covered in blue poly tarps), ancient and flimsy. > Junk rigs don't suit modern hulls and cabins. They suit Junks. Don't we all > want our boats  > to look good as well as perform? >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "jericoera" <jericoera@y...> wrote: > > > > Well, I started this junked rig business so I figure I should weigh > > in.  > >  > > The junk rig first of all will unequivocally not work well on every > > hull type. They were desined for the draft type common to the junk > > hull. > >  > > Brent is right when he says windward ability is not known to be > > wonderful with junk rigs. They were never designed to go to > > windward. What the attractionis for people is that they can be > > reefed in a snap repotedly with one hand in some instances while > > sipping coffee in the other. They also are free standing so you > > don't have compression loading on the mast. Having said that they > > will take more strain bending laterally without any stays. > >  > > Generally speaking the fore mast in a schooner set up with the junk > > will be raked forward 5-10 degrees which supposedly helps going to > > windward. > >  > > The newest improvements are high aspect junk sails and one pro junk > > sail designer is out of the U.K. at : > > http://www.sailsandcanvas.co.uk/ > >  > > The sails don't come cheap but then you save on rigging costs of a > > marconi rig though I may get some arguement there. > >  > > Myself, I think both rigs have advantages. You don't require big > > expensive winches with a junk if it is properly rigged and down wind > > you should see good performance. > >  > > Its very much like bilge keels versus the regular keel affair. Each > > have a purpose and specific shortcomings and advantages--like > > everything its a trade off. > >  > > If you aren't planning to anchor in shallow spots or dry the boat > > out , maybe you don't need bilge keels. If you like the old square > > riggers are going downwind and trying to follow the old shipping > > routes, then a junk sail might work fine for you. On the other hand, > > if you like slogging it out into the wind and not using your iron > > spinnaker (engine) while going to wind , then by far the marconi rig > > will be the choice. > >  > > People have made circumnavigations without engines! For me , I would > > prefer one to at least get me off the lee shore when necessary. Each > > to their own. > >  > > Thoughts from an armschair sailor > >  > > Carl McIntosh > > >  >  >  >  >  >  > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com >  >  >  > SPONSORED LINKS  >        Yacht  > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads? t=ms&k=Yacht&w1=Yacht&w2=Victoria+bc&c=2&s=28& > .sig=RTd-j7_PClPYBL3HeWCpfw> Victoria bc > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads? t=ms&k=Victoria+bc&w1=Yacht&w2=Victoria+bc&c=2 > &s=28&.sig=qKvzqakjCGPWmAOg75otfg> >  >  >  > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS >  >  Visit your group "origamiboats <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats> > " on the web.  >   >  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >  origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe> >   >  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> . >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > |
9467|9266|2005-11-06 00:26:09|Michael Casling|Re: Wood burning stove|When you put a frying pan on the burner it sits on a flange thingy that keeps it up about 3/4 of an inch. So the flames kind of wrap around the bottom of the pan, then exhaust up and out whatever is open. When you use the flower pot, it sits flush with deck of the cooker and the flames / exhaust can not escape around the bottom.So you use a flower pot with a hole in the bottom, which is now the top 'cause you put it on the cooker upside down. The fumes go out through the hole and exit the cabin the same as they would normally. Again this is not the best heater, but it cost $5.99 plus tax, and you do not have to modify anything.  Michael    ----- Original Message -----    From: cirejay    To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com    Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2005 1:17 PM   Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Wood burning stove     --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Michael Casling <casling@s...>    wrote:   >   > Just as it sounds. You put a $5.99 clay flower pot upside down over    the top of a burner. Use a pot with a small hole in the bottom. That    now becomes the top to vent the fumes from the burnt flame.     To where?     >This is not the most ideal heater, but for $5.99 what else is ideal.    Nothing comes close, thank god.    eric S/V Nebaras           To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com   To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com     ------------------------------------------------------------------------------   YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS       a..  Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web.            b..  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:      origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com            c..  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
9468|9395|2005-11-06 00:38:32|Jerry Scovel|Re: SV: SV: [origamiboats] Re: Junk Rigged Swain?|Now I know why you use the name Olaf...   on 11/5/05 11:17 PM, mickeyolaf at mickeyolaf@... wrote:  How about a SW 36 with a square sail, dragon head, oars and shields down both sides.  We'll raid Saltspring Island and make off with all of the damsels and grog.              --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Jerry Scovel <stcfarms@n...> wrote: > > Junks are sturdy cargo boats meant for rivers and coastal waters but I have > seen them on the open ocean. Many of the junks that you see are hundreds of > years old, passed down from generations that built boats to last. They do > not handle as well as modern boats because they are built as work boats, not > pleasure craft. If anyone hjas a junk that they are tired of I will trade > you a 1973 Javelin for it. >  >  > on 11/5/05 10:41 PM, mickeyolaf at mickeyolaf@y... wrote: >  > Rigs have been evolving for hundreds of years. Lighter, stronger, safer, > longer lasting.  A > boat needs a sail plan that makes the boat go, stands up in a blow, can be > reduced, goes  > to windward and is easily single handed. It also should look right. (A > cutter!!) > I was in Hong Kong this year. There are Junks still in the harbour and over > in Stanley. They  > don't look very sturdy and definately don't have an offshore look. They look > graceful  > (except the ones covered in blue poly tarps), ancient and flimsy. > Junk rigs don't suit modern hulls and cabins. They suit Junks. Don't we all > want our boats  > to look good as well as perform? >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "jericoera" <jericoera@y...> wrote: > > > > Well, I started this junked rig business so I figure I should weigh > > in.  > >  > > The junk rig first of all will unequivocally not work well on every > > hull type. They were desined for the draft type common to the junk > > hull. > >  > > Brent is right when he says windward ability is not known to be > > wonderful with junk rigs. They were never designed to go to > > windward. What the attractionis for people is that they can be > > reefed in a snap repotedly with one hand in some instances while > > sipping coffee in the other. They also are free standing so you > > don't have compression loading on the mast. Having said that they > > will take more strain bending laterally without any stays. > >  > > Generally speaking the fore mast in a schooner set up with the junk > > will be raked forward 5-10 degrees which supposedly helps going to > > windward. > >  > > The newest improvements are high aspect junk sails and one pro junk > > sail designer is out of the U.K. at : > > http://www.sailsandcanvas.co.uk/ > >  > > The sails don't come cheap but then you save on rigging costs of a > > marconi rig though I may get some arguement there. > >  > > Myself, I think both rigs have advantages. You don't require big > > expensive winches with a junk if it is properly rigged and down wind > > you should see good performance. > >  > > Its very much like bilge keels versus the regular keel affair. Each > > have a purpose and specific shortcomings and advantages--like > > everything its a trade off. > >  > > If you aren't planning to anchor in shallow spots or dry the boat > > out , maybe you don't need bilge keels. If you like the old square > > riggers are going downwind and trying to follow the old shipping > > routes, then a junk sail might work fine for you. On the other hand, > > if you like slogging it out into the wind and not using your iron > > spinnaker (engine) while going to wind , then by far the marconi rig > > will be the choice. > >  > > People have made circumnavigations without engines! For me , I would > > prefer one to at least get me off the lee shore when necessary. Each > > to their own. > >  > > Thoughts from an armschair sailor > >  > > Carl McIntosh > > >  >  >  >  >  >  > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com >  >  >  > SPONSORED LINKS  >        Yacht  > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads? t=ms&k=Yacht&w1=Yacht&w2=Victoria+bc&c=2&s=28& > .sig=RTd-j7_PClPYBL3HeWCpfw> Victoria bc > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads? t=ms&k=Victoria+bc&w1=Yacht&w2=Victoria+bc&c=2 > &s=28&.sig=qKvzqakjCGPWmAOg75otfg> >  >  >  > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS >  >  Visit your group "origamiboats <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats> > " on the web.  >   >  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >  origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe> >   >  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> . >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >       To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com    SPONSORED LINKS         Yacht  <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Yacht&w1=Yacht&w2=Victoria+bc&c=2&s=28& .sig=RTd-j7_PClPYBL3HeWCpfw> Victoria bc <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Victoria+bc&w1=Yacht&w2=Victoria+bc&c=2 &s=28&.sig=qKvzqakjCGPWmAOg75otfg>    YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS   Visit your group "origamiboats <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats> " on the web.     To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:  origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <mailto:origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>    Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .          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9469|9395|2005-11-06 04:12:13|edward_stoneuk|SV: SV: [origamiboats] Re: Junk Rigged Swain?|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "mickeyolaf" <mickeyolaf@y...>  wrote:  > > How about a SW 36 with a square sail, dragon head, oars and shields   down both sides.   > We'll raid Saltspring Island and make off with all of the damsels   and grog.   Now there's an idea.  The Vikings sailed as far as the Mediterranean  ans Black seas.  Kiev was a Viking city as was Dublin. I may have  Viking blood in my veins.  I have Depuytrens Contracture in both hands  and have had six operations over the years to straighten them out.   Dupytrens is, so I am informed more common among the Viking diaspora.  Viking sails were made from wool reinforced with leather?  I would  probably use dacron now if I were to make a viking sail. Regards, Ted|
9470|9395|2005-11-06 08:34:24|cirejay|SV: SV: [origamiboats] Re: Junk Rigged Swain?|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Jerry Scovel <stcfarms@n...>  wrote:  > want our boats  > to look good as well as perform?   Ah Jerry, and there is the rub.  Beauty IS in the eye of the  beholder.  Just look at the market for mass produced boats.    A number of years ago I was taking a Grampian 23 (not pretty, but  not ugly) from Erie PA to Annapolis MD.  It was on a wonderful mid- October day that I pulled into a cove, on the Jersey coast.  The  only other boat at anchor was an old, wooden, Chris-Craft, Tri  Cabin.  Now, this is a boat with lines that I have always admired  and, in fact, most consider it a true classic.  Never mind that it  is a powerboat; heck, my father was a stink-potter and a wonderful  man:-)  So, where the hell am I going you ask?  Well, no sooner had I gotten  everything straightened away with dinner on the stove and a drink in  my hand than two, yes, two, not one, Buccaneers pulled into the cove  and proceeded to anchor.    Fortunately, the winds were light without much of a tidal run, so I  just threw out a stern anchor and turned way from them.  Now, I'm  they sure that thought that their boats were as pretty as any but,  to my mind, they have got to be one of the ugliest darn things every  put on the water.   I can guarantee you that not one person looked at that boat, new,  and said, "Darn, that's the ugliest thing I've ever seen, I just  have got to have one of them"  Clearly, beauty is in the eye of the beholder.   eric S/V Nebaras|
9471|9395|2005-11-06 10:06:58|Jerry Scovel|Re: SV: SV: [origamiboats] Re: Junk Rigged Swain?|LOL, you have to be careful with cut and paste. I think the Chinese junk and the Dutch caravels were among the most beautiful boats ever built, only because they have room for all my tools.   on 11/6/05 7:34 AM, cirejay at cirejay@... wrote:  --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Jerry Scovel <stcfarms@n...> wrote:  > want our boats  > to look good as well as perform?   Ah Jerry, and there is the rub.  Beauty IS in the eye of the beholder.  Just look at the market for mass produced boats.  A number of years ago I was taking a Grampian 23 (not pretty, but not ugly) from Erie PA to Annapolis MD.  It was on a wonderful mid- October day that I pulled into a cove, on the Jersey coast.  The only other boat at anchor was an old, wooden, Chris-Craft, Tri Cabin.  Now, this is a boat with lines that I have always admired and, in fact, most consider it a true classic.  Never mind that it is a powerboat; heck, my father was a stink-potter and a wonderful man:-)  So, where the hell am I going you ask?  Well, no sooner had I gotten everything straightened away with dinner on the stove and a drink in my hand than two, yes, two, not one, Buccaneers pulled into the cove and proceeded to anchor.  Fortunately, the winds were light without much of a tidal run, so I just threw out a stern anchor and turned way from them.  Now, I'm they sure that thought that their boats were as pretty as any but, to my mind, they have got to be one of the ugliest darn things every put on the water.   I can guarantee you that not one person looked at that boat, new, and said, "Darn, that's the ugliest thing I've ever seen, I just have got to have one of them"  Clearly, beauty is in the eye of the beholder.   eric S/V Nebaras      To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com    SPONSORED LINKS         Yacht  <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Yacht&w1=Yacht&w2=Victoria+bc&c=2&s=28& .sig=RTd-j7_PClPYBL3HeWCpfw> Victoria bc <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Victoria+bc&w1=Yacht&w2=Victoria+bc&c=2 &s=28&.sig=qKvzqakjCGPWmAOg75otfg>    YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS   Visit your group "origamiboats <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats> " on the web.     To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:  origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <mailto:origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>    Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]|
9472|9266|2005-11-06 11:30:36|Carl Volkwein|Re: Wood burning stove|And as I understand, you can make a water filter out of a couple of them too.                       Carl Volkwein from W.V.  Michael Casling <casling@...> wrote: When you put a frying pan on the burner it sits on a flange thingy that keeps it up about 3/4 of an inch. So the flames kind of wrap around the bottom of the pan, then exhaust up and out whatever is open. When you use the flower pot, it sits flush with deck of the cooker and the flames / exhaust can not escape around the bottom.So you use a flower pot with a hole in the bottom, which is now the top 'cause you put it on the cooker upside down. The fumes go out through the hole and exit the cabin the same as they would normally. Again this is not the best heater, but it cost $5.99 plus tax, and you do not have to modify anything.  Michael    ----- Original Message -----    From: cirejay    To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com    Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2005 1:17 PM   Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Wood burning stove     --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Michael Casling <casling@s...>    wrote:   >   > Just as it sounds. You put a $5.99 clay flower pot upside down over    the top of a burner. Use a pot with a small hole in the bottom. That    now becomes the top to vent the fumes from the burnt flame.     To where?     >This is not the most ideal heater, but for $5.99 what else is ideal.    Nothing comes close, thank god.    eric S/V Nebaras           To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com   To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com     ------------------------------------------------------------------------------   YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS       a..  Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web.            b..  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:      origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com            c..  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]    To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com     SPONSORED LINKS  Yacht Victoria bc   --------------------------------- YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS        Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web.        To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:  origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com        Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.    ---------------------------------    		 ---------------------------------  Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click.    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
9473|9473|2005-11-06 16:02:53|edward_stoneuk|Engine Controls|It is useful to have engine controls both inside the pilot house and  outside by the tiller.  I have one set of controls but do not want to  shell out for a second set.  I thought about placing the one set  inside but close to the hatch so that one could lean forward from the  tiller position and move the control lever or perhaps have an  extension fitted to the lever enabling one to move it from  outside.  What have other builders done? Regards, Ted|
9474|9474|2005-11-06 20:57:28|mickeyolaf|Swain Boats Rendezvous|I've noticed in 48 North and other publications that groups owning the same yachts/ designs will get together at some bay in the summer, swap BS, drink beer(s) and check out  each others ideas on their boats. Has there ever been a Swain rendevous? Brent could  show up and give us all s..t for going off the plans. How many floating Swain boats are out there in the Pacific NW?|
9475|9473|2005-11-07 09:35:06|Ray|Re: Engine Controls|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "edward_stoneuk" <tedstone@g...>  wrote:  > > It is useful to have engine controls both inside the pilot house and  > outside by the tiller.  I have one set of controls but do not want to  > shell out for a second set.  I thought about placing the one set  > inside but close to the hatch so that one could lean forward from the  > tiller position and move the control lever or perhaps have an  > extension fitted to the lever enabling one to move it from  > outside.  What have other builders done? > Regards, > Ted >  VERY different application, but, one that might be food for thought:  On the Chesapeake Bay Deadrise workboats - the TYPICAL arrangement is  to have a full set of controls; throttle, transmission, steering, in  the cockpit.    Most watermen run their boats from the deck - near the engine box. They  steer w/a gunnel-mounted ( yes I know it's spelled gunwhale ) stick  that has a rope wrapped around it, running over pulleys, through the  cabin, around the helm-shaft, down the port side, back to the rudder,  and forming a loop back to the steering stick.  Push forward to go  starboard, pull back for port.   The REAL engine controls are mounted in the cockpit, w/additional  cables tied into those, and mounted on the side of the engine box.  The  engine box controls are usually NOT real morse-type controls, they're  home-made attachments TO those controls.   As I said, different application, but, their implementation MIGHT spark  an idea that would suit your needs.   Good luck!   Ray Kimbro|
9476|9476|2005-11-07 09:41:20|carlvolkwein|origamiboats@yahoogroups.com|Hi Guys,       I am building a small steel boat in W.V., what I was wondering is,  when I get it done what advantage would I get from having it documented  over state registered, I plan to go to forign contries like the  Bahamas, and some Caribean island nations.        When I was young my family too a trip in our P.A. registered  cabin cruser from N.Y. to Canada, I don't remember what we did when we  crossed into Canada or came back home but I know it wasn't a documented  boat.        Just thinking ahead.             Carl Volkwein from W.V.|
9477|9395|2005-11-07 14:03:40|Michael|SV: [origamiboats] Re: Junk Rigged Swain?|Sounds to me as if you are planning to mount unstayed masts as deck- stepped columns, bolted / welded to the deck plating, and with  compression posts carrying down to the keel.  That right?  My take on this is that you are inviting disaster.  This arrangement  will not work for an unstayed mast.  You must step the mast on the  keel, properly supported, and you must attenuate all the flexural  moment through partners and suitable framing as it passes through  the deck.  These forces should not be underestimated.  Michael Burton Sidney, B.C.  --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "edward_stoneuk"  <tedstone@g...> wrote:  > > Leif,   > yet, but for the masts I have two tapered 3mm steel light poles   that   > will be welded to flanges that will bolt to flanges welded to the  > deck.  There will be pipes connecting these flanges to the bottom   of   > the hull.  The forward mast flange and pipe support is already   tacked   > in place.  It leans forward 8° to get the centre of effort |
9478|9473|2005-11-07 14:40:55|brentswain38|Re: Engine Controls|I have a single lever control just inside the hatch, easily reachable  from the cockpit. It's hooked to the trottle and gearshift by solid  stainless linkages, eliminating the need for any kind of cable. With  the engine just under the hatch that is easy to do.i wouldn't do it any  other way.  You mentioned the need to be in the companion way to watch for ships  in British waters. I find I can sit on the bottom of my companionway  and see the entire horizon while keepng most of my body in the cabin's  warmth. Its important to make the bottom horizontal and  comfortable to  sit on. Brent  --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "edward_stoneuk" <tedstone@g...>  wrote:  > > It is useful to have engine controls both inside the pilot house and  > outside by the tiller.  I have one set of controls but do not want to  > shell out for a second set.  I thought about placing the one set  > inside but close to the hatch so that one could lean forward from the  > tiller position and move the control lever or perhaps have an  > extension fitted to the lever enabling one to move it from  > outside.  What have other builders done? > Regards, > Ted > |
9479|9395|2005-11-07 14:51:28|brentswain38|SV: SV: [origamiboats] Re: Junk Rigged Swain?|I don't believe you will save any money in rigging costs with a junk  rig. The hundreds of feet of running riggging will cost more than the  rigging on a marconi rig, as will the cost of sails when compared to  the cost of used marconi sails.    Having twice sailed 4,000 miles to windward comming home from Tonga  in the last 5 years , and having had to beat off many lee shores in  the night, I don't believe reasonable windward performance is a  disposable option for a safe cruising boat.  Patrick , who has been sailing a junk rig on thge BC coast for the  last 25 years told me that when people ask him about the junk rig,  the first thing he tries to do is talk them ouit of it. When that  fails, then he will tell them how to do it.  People I've known ,who have abandoned their junk rig for Marconi are  extremely enthusiastic about the improvement. Brent   --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "jericoera" <jericoera@y...>  wrote:  > > Well, I started this junked rig business so I figure I should weigh  > in.  >  > The junk rig first of all will unequivocally not work well on every  > hull type. They were desined for the draft type common to the junk  > hull. >  > Brent is right when he says windward ability is not known to be  > wonderful with junk rigs. They were never designed to go to  > windward. What the attractionis for people is that they can be  > reefed in a snap repotedly with one hand in some instances while  > sipping coffee in the other. They also are free standing so you  > don't have compression loading on the mast. Having said that they  > will take more strain bending laterally without any stays. >  > Generally speaking the fore mast in a schooner set up with the junk  > will be raked forward 5-10 degrees which supposedly helps going to  > windward. >  > The newest improvements are high aspect junk sails and one pro junk  > sail designer is out of the U.K. at :  > http://www.sailsandcanvas.co.uk/ >  > The sails don't come cheap but then you save on rigging costs of a  > marconi rig though I may get some arguement there. >  > Myself, I think both rigs have advantages. You don't require big  > expensive winches with a junk if it is properly rigged and down   wind   > you should see good performance.   >  > Its very much like bilge keels versus the regular keel affair. Each  > have a purpose and specific shortcomings and advantages--like  > everything its a trade off.  >  > If you aren't planning to anchor in shallow spots or dry the boat  > out , maybe you don't need bilge keels. If you like the old square  > riggers are going downwind and trying to follow the old shipping  > routes, then a junk sail might work fine for you. On the other   hand,   > if you like slogging it out into the wind and not using your iron  > spinnaker (engine) while going to wind , then by far the marconi   rig   > will be the choice. >  > People have made circumnavigations without engines! For me , I   would   > prefer one to at least get me off the lee shore when necessary.   Each   > to their own. >  > Thoughts from an armschair sailor >  > Carl McIntosh > |
9480|9395|2005-11-07 15:03:54|brentswain38|Re: Junk Rigged Swain?|Rudy , who saild the 40 ft junk was a type A , extremely competitive  person , who couldn't be sailing in the same direction as another  boat without competing. When he heard that I was leaving Mexico , he  left for the explicit purpose of trying to beat me home.  One of my 36 footers with Marconi rig  , a crew of witnesses, and  ratty sails quickly sailed several complete circles around him in 15  knots of wind   Other people I've met who followed Colvin's instructions were  anything but happy with the results.  No matter how badly he was proven wrong, I think it would be  impossible for Colvin to admit it now.  The total lack of innovation in Colvin's building technique, in many  decades of building ,is testimony to his tendency to form concrete  conclusions and stick dogmatically to them regardless of evidence to  the contrary.This is very common in a field as tradition bound as  boats. His building techniques are stuck in the 30's .We've learned a  lot since then.  I've yet to see any junk sail any closer than 30 degrees less to  windward than a marconi rig, in any kind of sea.Colvin is dean wrong  on that point. Again ,with Colvin, self delusion reins ,where junk  rig windward performance is concerned. Brent  --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "sae140" <colinpowell@f...>  wrote:  > > Thomas Colvin - who has a few sailing miles under his keel -   favours   > junk rig for his own boats over all others.  I don't really think   Tom   > C can be described as a bullshitter (!).  > He includes a jib on his junk-rigged 'Gazelle' design, but Gazelle  > owners find it doesn't add a great deal and apparently most don't   use   > the jib in practice.   > Many years ago Tom ran some comparative tests (Marconi, Gaff,  > Junk (which he calls "Chinese Lug")) on an identical hull.   > He concluded: "My conclusion is that the jib-headed rig is  > given more credit for efficiency than it deserves.  The gaff  > rig is by no means obsolete and when properly designed can be  > as efficient as the jib-headed rig.  The Chinese lug rig, as  > ancient as it is, can still give western rigs a run for their > money."  And Tom wasn't using the latest junk rig developments  > in his tests. >  > I don't understand comments such as, "We sailed the same route  > back to BC. I took 38 days , he took 57 days."  So - was it a  > race then ?  Maybe the slower boat was more comfortable.  Maybe  > they had more *fun* ?  If you're cruising - what's the advantage  > of the extra speed ?  Some of us sail to be out on the water,  > not to get off it as soon as possible ! >  > Having sailed junk (only coastal so far), I wouldn't willingly  > go back to a Marconi sloop - gaff cutter maybe, but not Marconi. >  > Colin > |
9481|9395|2005-11-07 15:13:00|brentswain38|A lot of string ??  (was Re: Junk Rigged Swain?)|A friend bough enough 1X7 Galv standing rigging for a 36 footer for  $24 in a scrapyard. Once up , it doesn't chafe or run thru blocks.If  you use wire for halyards, that doesn't chafe either and lasts ten  years or more.Halyard tails are 40 ft for the main and nil for the  roller furling jib. Add two jib sheet and a main sheet , plus reefing  pennants and you are nowhere near the amount needed for a junk. Brent   --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "sae140" <colinpowell@f...>  wrote:  > > Brent writes: "A 44 ft junk I know of has 300 feet of  > running rigging" >  > Yep - it seems a lot - until you take a *close* look  > at the marconi equivalent. >  > I wouldn't want to estimate the rigging required for  > such a big boat, but just looking at a Marconi-rigged  > 31ft Swain there's also a lot of rigging required -  > and to be fair when making a comparison, let's include  > standing rigging too - on say, a 40ft mast. >  > Shrouds - c. 200 ft. > Twin fore-stays - c. 90ft > Single backstay with 'Y' - c. 50ft > Twin jib halyards (to cockpit) - c. 180ft > Main halyard - c. 90ft > Mainsheet (sure, depends on purchase) - c. 100ft > Jibsheet - c. 50ft. >  > That's a cool 760 ft - not including spinnaker uphauls/ > downhauls etc - or the vang or boom outhauls or reefing  > lines and all the other odds and sods. >  > Admittedly, there's a lot of guestimating in the above -  > but there is a *lot* of string on all boats, but due to  > familiarity you just don't notice it on conventional rigs. >  > The length of a junk mainsheet *does* present a special  > problem - but is easily solved by using a reel. >  > Colin > |
9482|9395|2005-11-07 15:17:57|brentswain38|Re: Junk Rigged Swain?|A junk rig can have advantages for inshore and coasal cruising, but I  wouldn't chose one for ofsfore. Those happiest with the junk rig are  those who sail protected waters in fair weather seasons.   I can reef my mainsail in under a minute, and the roller furling  made headsail shortening a breeze.A single shot of spray lubricant  can eliminate sail slide jamming for years .  I hope to try the  single line mainsail reefing some people swear by, enabling one to  reef  from the cockpit.The type of lazy jacks , holding up the  sailcover, common on charter yachts  ,works extremely well. It also  makes a great  rainwater catcher.  Brent  --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "edward_stoneuk" <tedstone@g...>  wrote:  > > The advantage of a junk rig that interests me most is the easy  > reefing and tacking.  To reef one lets the halyard go and the   weight   > of the battens bring the sail down between the lazy jacks until  > enough is reefed and one cleats off the halyard.  One doesn't need  > to leave the safety of the pilot house, just pop ones head and  > shoulders out to unhitch the halyard which is cleated on the pilot  > house roof.  No need to balance on the cabin roof to struggle with  > the sail as the boom dances about and the slides jam in the track.   > This might not be an issue when you are young and fit but it sure   is   > when you get older.  In crowded waters and you want to slow or   stop?   > Just let the sheet out and the sail weathercocks without flapping  > and flogging.  Want to tack up a river? Just push the tiller over  > and round she comes, if the design is right of course. One can do  > this from inside the pilot house.  No pulling on jib sheets and  > winching them in and then doing the same a few seconds later.    > Gybing by accident or design?  Because part of the sail is forward  > of the mast it doesn't slam round like a marconi or gaff so one  > isn't likely to be knocked unconscious by the boom.  Want to go to  > windward?  Start the engine.  Although to be fair many junks I've  > sailed on were good enough to windward.  Junks aren't the answer to  > every thing but the do have virtues for a safe cruising rig and   they   > go well with a pilot house as the sails can be handled from the  > sliding hatch. Some junk rigged boats have the running rigging  > brought inside the pilot house and then there is very little reason  > to go outside.   > I do have concerns about the fore mast weight up at the bow causing  > hobby horsing.  I asked Brent some time ago if his boats tended to  > bury their noses but he said they have plenty of reserve bouyancy   so   > we should  > be OK.  Time will tell.  > Regards, > Ted > |
9483|9459|2005-11-07 15:19:36|brentswain38|Re: Digest Number 1363 re: junk rig|Of the wind in flat seas they are very quick. On the wind in rough  water they are hopeless.  Sacred cows make great burgers. Brent   --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, <mkriley@f...> wrote: > > I had my lunch eaten by a steel junk rigged gazelle in very light  airs . > I still remember listening to the pullys sqeeking in the running  rigging as I was passed. > I had everything up but my underware. made a believer out of me.  > I was in a pearson 30. > mike > |
9484|9463|2005-11-07 15:24:02|brentswain38|Re: Help- Plans|Roughly 16 inch spacing for the foredeck. They are to increase the  overall stiffness ,so spacing doesn't have to be all that exact. With  such a high camber on the cabintop they are unecessary there.One  longitudinal on the sidedecks for the 26 is all that is needed with a  transverse beam every 3 ft. Brent   --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "tazmannusa" <tazmann@i...> wrote: > >  Hello >  I cant seem to find the info on the plans or the book on deck beems,  > What is the spacing and camber of them and allso does the cabin top  > need them? Im building the BS26 as desighned > Any help would be appreciated > Thanks > Tom > |
9485|9474|2005-11-07 15:37:33|brentswain38|Re: Swain Boats Rendezvous|We had one in Heriot Bay in 1988. 9 boats showed up and we had a  great time. Word of mouth advertising. The next one nobody showed up.  We had another on the north end of Denman a few years ago and had  a  great time, We also got to sail a few circles around a couple of junk  riggers,( who later claimed to have sailed circles around us.)  Maybe if we advertise it more we could get a better turnout,  especially on this  site. Brent   --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "mickeyolaf" <mickeyolaf@y...>  wrote:  > > I've noticed in 48 North and other publications that groups owning   the same yachts/  > designs will get together at some bay in the summer, swap BS, drink   beer(s) and check out   > each others ideas on their boats. Has there ever been a Swain   rendevous? Brent could   > show up and give us all s..t for going off the plans. > How many floating Swain boats are out there in the Pacific NW? > |
9486|9395|2005-11-08 04:25:37|edward_stoneuk|SV: [origamiboats] Re: Junk Rigged Swain?( Mast bury)|Michael, Thanks for your concern. I didn't explain it all that well. The lower  part is not really a compression post. It is more like a keel stepped  mast, where the mast is cut at deck level and each half welded to a  DN200PN6 (8" flange).  The lower part of the mast, the bury is welded  to the bottom of the hull and the flange welded to the deck.  The  upper and lower flanges, and their mast bits are then bolted with 8 No  M16 (5/8") bolts.  The lower part of the mainmast is mainly a 7"  pipe.  The foremast is mainly a 5" pipe.  I did it this way because  the tapered mast tube was not long enough and I needed to lengthen  them.  Welding flanges like this enables me to simplify the deck  partner with wooden wedges bit, and to use the bottom part of the mast  as reinforcing inside the boat to help keep the keels where they  should be. Regards, Ted|
9487|9473|2005-11-08 04:58:19|edward_stoneuk|Re: Engine Controls|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "brentswain38"  <brentswain38@h...> wrote:  > > I have a single lever control just inside the hatch, easily   reachable   > from the cockpit. It's hooked to the trottle and gearshift by   solid   > stainless linkages, eliminating the need for any kind of cable.   With   > the engine just under the hatch that is easy to do.i wouldn't do   it any   > other way. >  You mentioned the need to be in the companion way to watch for   ships   > in British waters. I find I can sit on the bottom of my   companionway   > and see the entire horizon while keepng most of my body in the   cabin's   > warmth. Its important to make the bottom horizontal and    comfortable to   > sit on. > Brent   Brent,  I was thinking of something like that for the engine control.  I  already have the engine control cables.  It came in a box with the  engine, propeller, shaft, battery boxes, Bruce anchor etc.  I like  the idea of sitting in the companionway mostly in the shelter of the  pilot house.  Regards, Ted|
9488|9395|2005-11-08 05:31:40|edward_stoneuk|SV: SV: [origamiboats] Re: Junk Rigged Swain? (Rigging)|Brent, True, there is a lot of rigging on a junk.  On some there is enough  to hang the parish, which is not a plus point.  For simplicity I  would choose a marconi, for looks I would go for a gaff cutter with  the topsail cocked forward, but for ease of handling I still prefer  a junk.  I have sailed on junks where the windward performance is  good enough to get off a lee shore.  Most if not all the members of  the Junk Rig Association have sailed other rigs.  One  circumnavigated the world in a marconi rigged Iroquois Catamaran  before returning and converting it to a junk rig, which he now keeps  in Greece.  He bought and converted another little boat to a junk,  which he keeps in the UK to sail on when he comes home.  Another  member sailed his Junk rigged Kingfisher across the Atlantic to  visit his family in the Dominican Republic before returning home to  the UK.  Blondie Hasler sailed his junk rigged boat "Jester" in the  single handed transatlantic race.  Joshua Slocum junk rigged his  boat "Liberdade" which he used to return with his family from Brazil  to the States after being shipwrecked.  This is a different episode  of his life from his circumnavigation in Spray.  He regarded junk  rigs to be the handiest of all rigs.  In truth, junk rigs have a  certain similarity to boiled peanuts.  Several years ago my wife and  I were driving through rural Georgia and stopped to buy some boiled  peanuts, which I had never seen before.  I asked the old chap  selling them what they tasted like. "Well" he said, " some folks  like them and some folks don't".  He was right. Regards, Ted|
9489|9473|2005-11-08 06:12:12|sae140|Re: Engine Controls|There have been times (like when trying to pick up a buoy  for the 10th time !) when I would have loved to have been  able to control the boat from the bow.  Colin|
9490|9198|2005-11-08 06:43:55|T & D CAIN|Re: Marinizing an engine|Gord., No problems this end re the manifold - if you think you can use it, it's available at zero $ to me. The cost to a buyer is the cost of freight, any special packing?, and any applicable duty at the port of entry. At this time, I cannot see a need for the part in my plans. If nobody wants the part under these conditions, it will probably remain in my ever-growing collection of boat bits. Terry  -----Original Message----- From:	origamiboats@yahoogroups.com [mailto:origamiboats@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of GORDON SCHNELL Sent:	Wednesday, 26 October 2005 03:04 To:	origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Subject:	Re: RE: [origamiboats] Marinizing an engine|
9491|9395|2005-11-08 14:37:28|brentswain38|SV: SV: [origamiboats] Re: Junk Rigged Swain? (Rigging)|Given the bullshit hype that guys I've sailed circles around give to  their junks, I think it's important to add a word of caution not to  believe everything that they hear about junks.Sacred cows that one is  not allowed to criticise or question can lead people into a lot of  problems , and potentially dangerous situations . I feel an  obligation to add a warning where peoples life savings and sometimes  lives are at stake.  Try the junk rig if you must, but be aware of it's limitations, and  drawbacks.  Brent   --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "edward_stoneuk" <tedstone@g...>  wrote:  > > Brent, > True, there is a lot of rigging on a junk.  On some there is enough  > to hang the parish, which is not a plus point.  For simplicity I  > would choose a marconi, for looks I would go for a gaff cutter with  > the topsail cocked forward, but for ease of handling I still prefer  > a junk.  I have sailed on junks where the windward performance is  > good enough to get off a lee shore.  Most if not all the members of  > the Junk Rig Association have sailed other rigs.  One  > circumnavigated the world in a marconi rigged Iroquois Catamaran  > before returning and converting it to a junk rig, which he now   keeps   > in Greece.  He bought and converted another little boat to a junk,  > which he keeps in the UK to sail on when he comes home.  Another  > member sailed his Junk rigged Kingfisher across the Atlantic to  > visit his family in the Dominican Republic before returning home to  > the UK.  Blondie Hasler sailed his junk rigged boat "Jester" in the  > single handed transatlantic race.  Joshua Slocum junk rigged his  > boat "Liberdade" which he used to return with his family from   Brazil   > to the States after being shipwrecked.  This is a different episode  > of his life from his circumnavigation in Spray.  He regarded junk  > rigs to be the handiest of all rigs.  In truth, junk rigs have a  > certain similarity to boiled peanuts.  Several years ago my wife   and   > I were driving through rural Georgia and stopped to buy some boiled  > peanuts, which I had never seen before.  I asked the old chap  > selling them what they tasted like. "Well" he said, " some folks  > like them and some folks don't".  He was right. > Regards, > Ted > |
9492|9473|2005-11-08 14:41:38|brentswain38|Re: Engine Controls|Having the cables doesn't mean you have to use them. They are worth  converting to building and cruising funds. Solid linkages are far  less prone to breakdown over the long run.They are so simple to rig  when your engine is right under where the controls should be. Brent  --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "edward_stoneuk" <tedstone@g...>  wrote:  > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "brentswain38"  > <brentswain38@h...> wrote: > > > > I have a single lever control just inside the hatch, easily  > reachable  > > from the cockpit. It's hooked to the trottle and gearshift by  > solid  > > stainless linkages, eliminating the need for any kind of cable.  > With  > > the engine just under the hatch that is easy to do.i wouldn't do  > it any  > > other way. > >  You mentioned the need to be in the companion way to watch for  > ships  > > in British waters. I find I can sit on the bottom of my  > companionway  > > and see the entire horizon while keepng most of my body in the  > cabin's  > > warmth. Its important to make the bottom horizontal and   > comfortable to  > > sit on. > > Brent >  > Brent, >  > I was thinking of something like that for the engine control.  I  > already have the engine control cables.  It came in a box with the  > engine, propeller, shaft, battery boxes, Bruce anchor etc.  I like  > the idea of sitting in the companionway mostly in the shelter of   the   > pilot house. >  > Regards, > Ted > |
9493|9198|2005-11-09 01:35:40|gschnell|Re: Marinizing an engine|Terry Had we spoken a couple of years ago, I might have tried to rebuild the manifold. Since then, I have gone ahead with dry exhaust and it seems to be quite acceptable. Thanks for all the info. Looks like more to add to your pile. All the best Gord    T & D CAIN wrote:   >  Gord., > No problems this end re the manifold - if you think you can use it, > it's > available at zero $ to me. The cost to a buyer is the cost of freight, > any > special packing?, and any applicable duty at the port of entry. At > this > time, I cannot see a need for the part in my plans. If nobody wants > the part > under these conditions, it will probably remain in my ever-growing > collection of boat bits. > Terry > > -----Original Message----- > From:      origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:origamiboats@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of GORDON SCHNELL > Sent:      Wednesday, 26 October 2005 03:04 > To:      origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > Subject:      Re: RE: [origamiboats] Marinizing an engine > > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > >    +  Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web. > >    +  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >       origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > >    +  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of >      Service. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- >    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]|
9494|9473|2005-11-09 03:45:27|edward_stoneuk|Re: Engine Controls|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "brentswain38"  <brentswain38@h...> wrote:  > > Having the cables doesn't mean you have to use them. They are worth  > converting to building and cruising funds. Solid linkages are far  > less prone to breakdown over the long run.They are so simple to rig  > when your engine is right under where the controls should be. > Brent    Brent,  Do you use a single lever for both throttle and gear change?  Regards, Ted|
9495|9473|2005-11-09 14:33:27|brentswain38|Re: Engine Controls|Yes . Single lever controls sometimes show up in marine secondhand  stores. They make docking light years easier , having only one lever  to deal with for both throttle and gearshift. Brent   --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "edward_stoneuk" <tedstone@g...>  wrote:  > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "brentswain38"  > <brentswain38@h...> wrote: > > > > Having the cables doesn't mean you have to use them. They are   worth   > > converting to building and cruising funds. Solid linkages are far  > > less prone to breakdown over the long run.They are so simple to   rig   > > when your engine is right under where the controls should be. > > Brent >  >  > Brent, >  > Do you use a single lever for both throttle and gear change? >  > Regards, > Ted > |
9496|9198|2005-11-09 14:35:40|brentswain38|Re: Marinizing an engine|A volkswagen manifold is quite complex. For other engines it's quite  simple. Brent   --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, gschnell <gschnell@s...> wrote: > > Terry > Had we spoken a couple of years ago, I might have tried to rebuild  the > manifold. Since then, I have gone ahead with dry exhaust and it  seems to > be quite acceptable. > Thanks for all the info. Looks like more to add to your pile. > All the best > Gord >  >  >  > T & D CAIN wrote: >  > >  Gord., > > No problems this end re the manifold - if you think you can use  it, > > it's > > available at zero $ to me. The cost to a buyer is the cost of  freight, > > any > > special packing?, and any applicable duty at the port of entry. At > > this > > time, I cannot see a need for the part in my plans. If nobody  wants > > the part > > under these conditions, it will probably remain in my ever-growing > > collection of boat bits. > > Terry > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From:      origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:origamiboats@yahoogroups.com] On > > Behalf Of GORDON SCHNELL > > Sent:      Wednesday, 26 October 2005 03:04 > > To:      origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > Subject:      Re: RE: [origamiboats] Marinizing an engine > > > > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ ----- > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > > >    +  Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web. > > > >    +  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > >       origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > >    +  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > >      Service. > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ ----- > > >  >  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > |
9497|9198|2005-11-09 20:51:37|Gerald Niffenegger|Re: Marinizing an engine|Just built a wet manifold for my 1.9 VW. Four short tubes welded to  four flanges, short tubes welded into one large tube with a case around  it for sea water. Took about 10 hours to build with a hack saw and  drill press. A cross flow head would have been easier. The VW motor is  going into a plastic boat. My steel boat will run dry exhaust with a  sea water cooled manifold. Gerald|
9498|9473|2005-11-10 05:07:25|edward_stoneuk|Re: Engine Controls|> VERY different application, but, one that might be food for   thought:  >  > On the Chesapeake Bay Deadrise workboats - the TYPICAL arrangement   is   > to have a full set of controls; throttle, transmission, steering,   in   > the cockpit.   >  > Most watermen run their boats from the deck - near the engine box.   They   > steer w/a gunnel-mounted ( yes I know it's spelled gunwhale )   stick   > that has a rope wrapped around it, running over pulleys, through   the   > cabin, around the helm-shaft, down the port side, back to the   rudder,   > and forming a loop back to the steering stick.  Push forward to go  > starboard, pull back for port.  >  > The REAL engine controls are mounted in the cockpit, w/additional  > cables tied into those, and mounted on the side of the engine   box.  The   > engine box controls are usually NOT real morse-type controls,   they're   > home-made attachments TO those controls.  >  > As I said, different application, but, their implementation MIGHT   spark   > an idea that would suit your needs.  >  > Good luck!  >  > Ray Kimbro    Ray,  Thanks for the message.  Brent's steering design includes a joy- stick in the pilot house attached to a trim tab on the trailing edge  of the rudder.  Moving the trim tab pushes the rudder over so giving  servo-assisted steering using the force of the water passing the  rudder and trim tab.  It needs some forward motion of the boat.  At  manouvering speed one would need the tiller and rudder.  Regards, Ted|
9499|9473|2005-11-10 13:11:27|seeratlas|Re: Engine Controls|Beware tho, I once sat and watched my father parading around backwards on a 30 ft. powerboat in the middle of the night when the cable holder inside the Morse single lever control slipped/failed, whatever and he couldn't get out of reverse. boat near us had dragged when the tide came in, was bumping into several others, the fishermen who arrived at like 2 in the morning were NOT in a good mood, and when the weather came up, it was pretty much a real donnybrook. I, luckily, had decided to anchor in deeper water out away from everyone trying to get into the lee because of the wind,  so was pretty much a spectator for the whole show. Could have sold tickets :)  seer   --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "brentswain38" <brentswain38@h...> wrote:  > > Yes . Single lever controls sometimes show up in marine secondhand  > stores. They make docking light years easier , having only one lever  > to deal with for both throttle and gearshift. > Brent >  >  > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "edward_stoneuk" <tedstone@g...>  > wrote: > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "brentswain38"  > > <brentswain38@h...> wrote: > > > > > > Having the cables doesn't mean you have to use them. They are  > worth  > > > converting to building and cruising funds. Solid linkages are far  > > > less prone to breakdown over the long run.They are so simple to  > rig  > > > when your engine is right under where the controls should be. > > > Brent > >  > >  > > Brent, > >  > > Do you use a single lever for both throttle and gear change? > >  > > Regards, > > Ted > > > |
9500|9500|2005-11-10 13:47:12|michael v|UNLIMITED Worldwide Long Distance Calling|YOU can be among the first to offer UNLIMITED, WORLDWIDE local and long distance calling for one LOW, LOW monthly flat rate! Make unlimited local and long distance calls to over 20 countries from almost anywhere in the world with our incredible new VOIP (Voice Over Internet Protocol) technology. The only global unlimited VOIP!     Our low $39 to $59 per month service plans will bring in hundreds of thousands of thousands of customers WORLDWIDE. YOU can be one of the first to spread the word and have the greatest opportunity to be able to MAKE A FORTUNE with this exciting new technology. You will also be able to help people lower or even eliminate their local and long distance phone bills.     Don't miss out on this huge advancement in telecommunication technology!     Be one of the first, and you could secure your financial future by offering unlimited flat rate services around the world. Become our affiliate and we have the best compensation plan for you.     We are always welcome you.     Click Here http://www.telextreme.com/229233     __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around  http://mail.yahoo.com   [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]|
9501|9198|2005-11-10 14:11:31|brentswain38|Re: Marinizing an engine|Keel cooling or skeg cooling works better for a watercooled manifold  and eliminates the salt and thru hull. Brent   --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Gerald Niffenegger"  <niffeneggerniff@a...> wrote:  > > Just built a wet manifold for my 1.9 VW. Four short tubes welded to  > four flanges, short tubes welded into one large tube with a case   around   > it for sea water. Took about 10 hours to build with a hack saw and  > drill press. A cross flow head would have been easier. The VW motor   is   > going into a plastic boat. My steel boat will run dry exhaust with a  > sea water cooled manifold. > Gerald > |
9502|9473|2005-11-10 14:15:30|brentswain38|Re: Engine Controls|I use the Kobelt version with solid linkages  and no cables. Cables  are always a liability. Brent  --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "seeratlas" <seeratlas@y...>  wrote:  > > Beware tho, I once sat and watched my father parading around   backwards  > on a 30 ft. powerboat in the middle of the night when the cable   holder  > inside the Morse single lever control slipped/failed, whatever and   he  > couldn't get out of reverse. boat near us had dragged when the tide > came in, was bumping into several others, the fishermen who arrived   at  > like 2 in the morning were NOT in a good mood, and when the weather > came up, it was pretty much a real donnybrook. I, luckily, had   decided  > to anchor in deeper water out away from everyone trying to get into > the lee because of the wind,  so was pretty much a spectator for the > whole show. Could have sold tickets :) >  > seer >  >  > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "brentswain38" > <brentswain38@h...> wrote: > > > > Yes . Single lever controls sometimes show up in marine   secondhand   > > stores. They make docking light years easier , having only one   lever   > > to deal with for both throttle and gearshift. > > Brent > >  > >  > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "edward_stoneuk"   <tedstone@g...>   > > wrote: > > > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "brentswain38"  > > > <brentswain38@h...> wrote: > > > > > > > > Having the cables doesn't mean you have to use them. They are  > > worth  > > > > converting to building and cruising funds. Solid linkages are   far   > > > > less prone to breakdown over the long run.They are so simple   to   > > rig  > > > > when your engine is right under where the controls should be. > > > > Brent > > >  > > >  > > > Brent, > > >  > > > Do you use a single lever for both throttle and gear change? > > >  > > > Regards, > > > Ted > > > > > > |
9503|9473|2005-11-11 05:52:55|Puck III|Re: Engine Controls|The last design from the late famous British Laurent Gilles NA , for a UK builder with some real experience Westerly ,works realy fine and is realy worth copying . I use it personaly with great satisfaction . All electronics stay out of the weather , and the navstation is great when the sun is to hot also .See  http://tinyurl.com/3opkk    for selfexplaning photos. Combined with an electric bowthruster I can dock the boat singelhanded using both the interiorwheel or the tiller , even with strong traverse wind on a boat that sure has much windage due to the massive pilothouse.  Old Ben     --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "edward_stoneuk" <tedstone@g...>  wrote:  > > It is useful to have engine controls both inside the pilot house and  > outside by the tiller.  I have one set of controls but do not want to  > shell out for a second set.  I thought about placing the one set  > inside but close to the hatch so that one could lean forward from the  > tiller position and move the control lever or perhaps have an  > extension fitted to the lever enabling one to move it from  > outside.  What have other builders done? > Regards, > Ted > |
9504|9500|2005-11-11 06:32:58|Puck III|Skype - Re: UNLIMITED Worldwide Long Distance Calling|39 or 50 dollars a month ????? I use my Skype with a  Tiptel 115 VoIP USB phone with display dayly , it works great . When I go for a business appointment I usualy use my wife's Flybook : http://www.flybook.biz/en/   cause its a lot lighter than my Panasonic CF-29 , the Skype works great even with a Nokia bluetooth wireless earpiece wich is even discreter in public places . I payed 10 Euro deposit for calls to usual non-Skype phones , I still have 3 Euro left afther 3 months happy use so I just  payed again 25 Euro provision and I am sure this will give me again months of extreem low international communication freedom. I never called Alex , our beloved webmaster even if he is on my Skype friends list so that communication is totaly free between us , and I wonder if Alex is as happy as I am with Skype, and if he uses it regularly . I can state I am extreemly happy for now and my phone cost decreased dramaticaly , I also save a lot of time not having to go to internet callcenters or having to use the prepayd calling carts anymore. All people living and travelling on boats are confronted with ease of communication . Receiving email attachments in the grip-file format used to receive data for weatherforcast and waveheight is the most important for me [ I use MaxSea blue water for navigation ] I am allways interested in the communication topic , and I love to keep it simple and as cheap as possible. Does anybody uses a simpler and cheaper system ???  Old Ben   --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, michael v <m_cell8211@y...>  wrote:  > >  > YOU can be among the first to offer UNLIMITED, WORLDWIDE local and   long distance calling for one LOW, LOW monthly flat rate! Make  unlimited local and long distance calls to over 20 countries from  almost anywhere in the world with our incredible new VOIP (Voice Over  Internet Protocol) technology. The only global unlimited VOIP!  >  >   >  > Our low $39 to $59 per month service plans will bring in hundreds   of thousands of thousands of customers WORLDWIDE. YOU can be one of  the first to spread the word and have the greatest opportunity to be  able to MAKE A FORTUNE with this exciting new technology. You will  also be able to help people lower or even eliminate their local and  long distance phone bills.  >  >   >  > Don't miss out on this huge advancement in telecommunication   technology!  >  >   >  > Be one of the first, and you could secure your financial future by   offering unlimited flat rate services around the world. Become our  affiliate and we have the best compensation plan for you.  >  >   >  > We are always welcome you. >  >   >  > Click Here http://www.telextreme.com/229233 >  >  >  >  > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around  > http://mail.yahoo.com  >  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > |
9505|9505|2005-11-11 14:20:20|edward_stoneuk|Ben's heater in a cupboard|Old Ben, Your boat is very well fitted out.  I was taken with the idea of  building the heater into the furniture.  Is it a good idea? One might  think that the wood will get hot and burn. Regards, Ted|
9506|9473|2005-11-11 18:16:34|seeratlas|Re: Engine Controls|Bonk!, lol I SHOULD have assumed that, :) being familiar with your previous posts noting the hazards of cables on sea going boats. :)  seer  --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "brentswain38" <brentswain38@h...> wrote:  > > I use the Kobelt version with solid linkages  and no cables. Cables  > are always a liability. > Brent >  > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "seeratlas" <seeratlas@y...>  > wrote: > > > > Beware tho, I once sat and watched my father parading around  > backwards > > on a 30 ft. powerboat in the middle of the night when the cable  > holder > > inside the Morse single lever control slipped/failed, whatever and  > he > > couldn't get out of reverse. boat near us had dragged when the tide > > came in, was bumping into several others, the fishermen who arrived  > at > > like 2 in the morning were NOT in a good mood, and when the weather > > came up, it was pretty much a real donnybrook. I, luckily, had  > decided > > to anchor in deeper water out away from everyone trying to get into > > the lee because of the wind,  so was pretty much a spectator for the > > whole show. Could have sold tickets :) > >  > > seer > >  > >  > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "brentswain38" > > <brentswain38@h...> wrote: > > > > > > Yes . Single lever controls sometimes show up in marine  > secondhand  > > > stores. They make docking light years easier , having only one  > lever  > > > to deal with for both throttle and gearshift. > > > Brent > > >  > > >  > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "edward_stoneuk"  > <tedstone@g...>  > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "brentswain38"  > > > > <brentswain38@h...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Having the cables doesn't mean you have to use them. They are  > > > worth  > > > > > converting to building and cruising funds. Solid linkages are  > far  > > > > > less prone to breakdown over the long run.They are so simple  > to  > > > rig  > > > > > when your engine is right under where the controls should be. > > > > > Brent > > > >  > > > >  > > > > Brent, > > > >  > > > > Do you use a single lever for both throttle and gear change? > > > >  > > > > Regards, > > > > Ted > > > > > > > > > > |
9507|9500|2005-11-11 18:18:21|seeratlas|Skype - Re: UNLIMITED Worldwide Long Distance Calling|I second the skype. seer  --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III" <ben_azo@h...> wrote: > > 39 or 50 dollars a month ????? > I use my Skype with a  Tiptel 115 VoIP USB phone with display > dayly , it works great . > When I go for a business appointment I usualy use my wife's > Flybook : http://www.flybook.biz/en/   cause its a lot lighter > than my Panasonic CF-29 , the Skype works great even with a > Nokia bluetooth wireless earpiece wich is even discreter in > public places . > I payed 10 Euro deposit for calls to usual non-Skype phones , > I still have 3 Euro left afther 3 months happy use so I just  > payed again 25 Euro provision and I am sure this will give me > again months of extreem low international communication freedom. > I never called Alex , our beloved webmaster even if he is on > my Skype friends list so that communication is totaly free > between us , and I wonder if Alex is as happy as I am with Skype, > and if he uses it regularly . > I can state I am extreemly happy for now and my phone cost > decreased dramaticaly , I also save a lot of time not having > to go to internet callcenters or having to use the prepayd > calling carts anymore. > All people living and travelling on boats are confronted with > ease of communication . > Receiving email attachments in the grip-file format used > to receive data for weatherforcast and waveheight is the > most important for me [ I use MaxSea blue water for navigation ] > I am allways interested in the communication topic , > and I love to keep it simple and as cheap as possible. > Does anybody uses a simpler and cheaper system ??? >  > Old Ben >  >  > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, michael v <m_cell8211@y...>  > wrote: > > > >  > > YOU can be among the first to offer UNLIMITED, WORLDWIDE local and  > long distance calling for one LOW, LOW monthly flat rate! Make  > unlimited local and long distance calls to over 20 countries from  > almost anywhere in the world with our incredible new VOIP (Voice Over  > Internet Protocol) technology. The only global unlimited VOIP! > >  > >   > >  > > Our low $39 to $59 per month service plans will bring in hundreds  > of thousands of thousands of customers WORLDWIDE. YOU can be one of  > the first to spread the word and have the greatest opportunity to be  > able to MAKE A FORTUNE with this exciting new technology. You will  > also be able to help people lower or even eliminate their local and  > long distance phone bills. > >  > >   > >  > > Don't miss out on this huge advancement in telecommunication  > technology! > >  > >   > >  > > Be one of the first, and you could secure your financial future by  > offering unlimited flat rate services around the world. Become our  > affiliate and we have the best compensation plan for you. > >  > >   > >  > > We are always welcome you. > >  > >   > >  > > Click Here http://www.telextreme.com/229233 > >  > >  > >  > >  > > __________________________________________________ > > Do You Yahoo!? > > Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around  > > http://mail.yahoo.com  > >  > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > |
9508|9500|2005-11-11 18:50:08|Alex Christie|Re: Skype|Yep, I am very happy with Skype --- totally free calls between skype  members, putting my money into the boat kitty instead of the phone  company.  I use it all the time.  If anyone wants to reach me on it,  just put "origamiboats" in your "add" list and we can talk.  I am heading to Saigon (Ho Chi Minh City) Vietnam this Thursday for 3  weeks, will be keeping my eye out for boatyards there that might be  interested in learning the origami way, and maybe building a boat  there.  So...I won't be around here, but I'll keep an eye on the group  from Vietnam when I can, ok?  Alex    >  > between us , and I wonder if Alex is as happy as I am with Skype, >  > and if he uses it regularly .    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]|
9509|9500|2005-11-11 19:31:13|Michael Collins|Re: Skype ?|Is Skype a satellite carrier or only cellular?  Is this only good in  coastal area where one would have cellular service? What are people using for Internet communications in off-shore regions  where celluar is not available?  Michael   Alex Christie wrote:   >Yep, I am very happy with Skype --- totally free calls between skype  >members, putting my money into the boat kitty instead of the phone  >company.  I use it all the time.  If anyone wants to reach me on it,  >just put "origamiboats" in your "add" list and we can talk. > >I am heading to Saigon (Ho Chi Minh City) Vietnam this Thursday for 3  >weeks, will be keeping my eye out for boatyards there that might be  >interested in learning the origami way, and maybe building a boat  >there.  So...I won't be around here, but I'll keep an eye on the group  >from Vietnam when I can, ok? > >Alex > > >   > >> > between us , and I wonder if Alex is as happy as I am with Skype, >> > and if he uses it regularly . >>     >> > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > >To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com >To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com  >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > >  > > > > >. > >   >    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]|
9510|9500|2005-11-11 20:15:23|Alex Christie|Re: Skype ?|No Skype is a free service on the web, you just download the programme  on your computer, get a set of headphones with microphone on them  (unless your computer has a little condenser mic on it -- some  laptops).  You download skype at www.skype.com and make up a user id  very easily.  You can message on it by typing, or you can click "call"  and voice connect with anyone else with Skype.  You can also charge up  Skype Out on your account with minumum 10 Euros and call telehpones  anywhere in the world quite cheaply.  Like Ben,  I put 10 Euros in mine  and still have not used it up, many months later.  Alex    On 11-Nov-05, at 4:30 PM, Michael Collins wrote:  > Is Skype a satellite carrier or only cellular?  Is this only good in >  coastal area where one would have cellular service? >  What are people using for Internet communications in off-shore regions >  where celluar is not available? > >  Michael   [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
9511|9500|2005-11-11 21:06:58|Sugar|Skype - Re: UNLIMITED Worldwide Long Distance Calling|I have been using SKYPE for 2 years.  I love it.  And the sound is clear. Sugar     --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "seeratlas" <seeratlas@y...> wrote: > >  > I second the skype. > seer > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III" <ben_azo@h...> wrote: > > > > 39 or 50 dollars a month ????? > > I use my Skype with a  Tiptel 115 VoIP USB phone with display > > dayly , it works great . > > When I go for a business appointment I usualy use my wife's > > Flybook : http://www.flybook.biz/en/   cause its a lot lighter > > than my Panasonic CF-29 , the Skype works great even with a > > Nokia bluetooth wireless earpiece wich is even discreter in > > public places . > > I payed 10 Euro deposit for calls to usual non-Skype phones , > > I still have 3 Euro left afther 3 months happy use so I just  > > payed again 25 Euro provision and I am sure this will give me > > again months of extreem low international communication freedom. > > I never called Alex , our beloved webmaster even if he is on > > my Skype friends list so that communication is totaly free > > between us , and I wonder if Alex is as happy as I am with Skype, > > and if he uses it regularly . > > I can state I am extreemly happy for now and my phone cost > > decreased dramaticaly , I also save a lot of time not having > > to go to internet callcenters or having to use the prepayd > > calling carts anymore. > > All people living and travelling on boats are confronted with > > ease of communication . > > Receiving email attachments in the grip-file format used > > to receive data for weatherforcast and waveheight is the > > most important for me [ I use MaxSea blue water for navigation ] > > I am allways interested in the communication topic , > > and I love to keep it simple and as cheap as possible. > > Does anybody uses a simpler and cheaper system ??? > >  > > Old Ben > >  > >  > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, michael v <m_cell8211@y...>  > > wrote: > > > > > >  > > > YOU can be among the first to offer UNLIMITED, WORLDWIDE local and  > > long distance calling for one LOW, LOW monthly flat rate! Make  > > unlimited local and long distance calls to over 20 countries from  > > almost anywhere in the world with our incredible new VOIP (Voice Over  > > Internet Protocol) technology. The only global unlimited VOIP! > > >  > > >   > > >  > > > Our low $39 to $59 per month service plans will bring in hundreds  > > of thousands of thousands of customers WORLDWIDE. YOU can be one of  > > the first to spread the word and have the greatest opportunity to be  > > able to MAKE A FORTUNE with this exciting new technology. You will  > > also be able to help people lower or even eliminate their local and  > > long distance phone bills. > > >  > > >   > > >  > > > Don't miss out on this huge advancement in telecommunication  > > technology! > > >  > > >   > > >  > > > Be one of the first, and you could secure your financial future by  > > offering unlimited flat rate services around the world. Become our  > > affiliate and we have the best compensation plan for you. > > >  > > >   > > >  > > > We are always welcome you. > > >  > > >   > > >  > > > Click Here http://www.telextreme.com/229233 > > >  > > >  > > >  > > >  > > > __________________________________________________ > > > Do You Yahoo!? > > > Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around  > > > http://mail.yahoo.com  > > >  > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > |
9512|9512|2005-11-11 21:44:56|mickeyolaf|Swain Rendezvous|I am hoping to launch this spring and if there is any interest I would volunteer to arrange a  BC Swain Boats Rendezvous at a mid Gulf Islands bay late this coming summer. One that's  sheltered and has a decent BBQ'ing beach. Marinas charge too much for group space. The Marconi rigs could tow the Junks so we are all there at the same time. Maybe Swain   origami built boats should have a burgee to fly in the rigging. How about crossed cutting  torches over the letters BS?|
9513|9500|2005-11-11 21:47:59|Puck III|Re: Skype|Alex I realy hope you take your video cam with you and wonder if you  could post us some pics as appetiser :-) Be extreemly carefull about raw eggs and volatiles over there !!! Have a nice trip to Vietnam and keep us posted .  Old Ben  --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Alex Christie <achristie@s...>  wrote:  > > Yep, I am very happy with Skype --- totally free calls between   skype   > members, putting my money into the boat kitty instead of the phone  > company.  I use it all the time.  If anyone wants to reach me on   it,   > just put "origamiboats" in your "add" list and we can talk. >  > I am heading to Saigon (Ho Chi Minh City) Vietnam this Thursday for   3   > weeks, will be keeping my eye out for boatyards there that might be  > interested in learning the origami way, and maybe building a boat  > there.  So...I won't be around here, but I'll keep an eye on the   group   > from Vietnam when I can, ok? >  > Alex >  >  > >  > between us , and I wonder if Alex is as happy as I am with   Skype,  > >  > and if he uses it regularly . >  >  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > |
9514|9505|2005-11-11 22:11:34|Puck III|Re: Ben's heater in a cupboard|Hi Ted , all you need is some good reflective insulation , I was very limited is space , idialy the stove should be placed as low as possible and if you have the space to use some heatconserving tiles even under the stove you will enjoy it even more. All works fine in my cupboard :-) , cause the stove is out of the way , above the stove I have a holed RVS piece wich functions to lett warm air thru and as holding plate for the holed RVS tube  around the taylor chimney , never to hot to warm your hands on or  better ,easy to hang wet towels or a shirt you washed in the basin . Its lovely to wake up in the morning and wash near the stove, a gravity tank eliminates the need for an electro pump, so you have a silent night , no sudden noice like with the usual electric driven systems [ you know their names ] would you install a Taylor , just ask for the serpentin design wich serves as a free waterheater ,when the stove is on. I have instaled 3M security and sunreflecting film on all windows , I never had condens anymore cause it's reflection works both ways  and it's also great to see people lurking in , knowing you see them but they cant see you as long as the light is out :-)  Succes in your building. Old Ben  --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "edward_stoneuk" <tedstone@g...>  wrote:  > > Old Ben, > Your boat is very well fitted out.  I was taken with the idea of  > building the heater into the furniture.  Is it a good idea? One might  > think that the wood will get hot and burn. > Regards, > Ted > |
9515|9515|2005-11-12 02:31:34|Jerry Scovel|Wind farm|I know this is off topic but I think it may interest some of you  anyway.  The yahoo group http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Savonious/ has  a good chance of buying a large windmill farm in California at  scrap prices. We need to get as many people as we can involved  as soon as possible. We have to get the windmills off of the  property and move them to another location.  If you are interested in alternative energy and making a decent  profit then join the group and get involved in spreading the word.  It would be a shame to let the energy companies buy them and  scrap them out.|
9516|9516|2005-11-12 10:29:50|CADsoul|نصمم ونصنع لك أي ماكينة|ßÇÏ ÓÜÜæá  ÇáãÄÓÓÉ ÇáãÕÑíÉ ááÊÕãíãÇÊ  ÇáÕäÇÚíÉ    äÍä äÕãã áßã ÇáãÇßíäÇÊ   æ äÍä äÕäÚåÇ   äÍä äÞæã ÈÊÕãíã ÃíÉ ãÇßíäÇÊ Ãæ ãÚÏÉ ááÚãÜíÜá ÍÓÈ ÇáãæÇÕÝÜÇÊ ÇáãØÜáæÈÉ æÅÚØÇÆå ãáÝ ÊÕãíã ßÇãá  íãßä ÊäÝíÐå Ýí Çí ãßÇä.  äÍä äÞæã ÈÊÜäÜÝÜÜíÜÐ ÇáÊÕãíãÇÊ Ýì ãÕÇäÚäÇ ÍÓÈ ÇáãæÇÕÝÜÇÊ ÇáãØÜáæÈÉ ÊãÇãÇ æÊÓáíãåÇ Çáì ÇáÚÜãÜíá Ýí Ãí ãßÇä Ýí ÇáÚÇáã.  äÍä äÞÏã ãÌãæÚÉ ßíÑÉ ãä ÇáäãÇÐÌ ááãÇßíäÇÊ æÇáãÚÏÇÊ íãßääÇ ÊÕãíãåǺ íÎÊÜÇÑ ÇáÚãíÜá ãäåÇ ãÇ íÊäÜÇÓÈ ãÚå Ëã íÞæã ÈÊäÝíÐåÇ Ýì ãÕäÚå.    äÍä äÞÏã ÎÏãÉ ÇáÏÚã ÇáÝäì æ ÇáÅÔÑÇÝ Úáì ÊäÝíÐ ÚíäÉ áÊÕãíãÇÊäÇ  Ýí ãÕäÚ ÇáÚãíá .  æÊÚãá ÇáãÄÓÓÉ ÇáãÕÑíÉ ááÊÕãíãÇÊ ÇáÕäÇÚíÉ Ýí ÇáãÌÇáÇÊ ÇáÂÊíÉ :-      ÊÕãíã æÅäÊÇÌ ÇáãÇßíäÇÊ ÇáãæÌæÏÉ Ýí ÇáÃÓæÇÞ ÈÊßáÝÉ ÃÞá ãÚ ÅãßÇäíÉ ÅÖÇÝÉ ÃíÉ æÙÇÆÝ ÌÏíÏÉ áåÇ ãØáæÈÉ ááÚãá .      ÊÕãíã æÅäÊÇÌ ãÇßíäÇÊ ÊÞæã ÈÃÚãÇá ãÍÏÏÉ ááÚãíá áíÓÊ ãÊæÝÑÉ ÈÇáÃÓæÇÞ æ ÍÓÈ ÇáãæÇÕÝÇÊ ÇáãØáæÈÉ.      ÊÚÏíá ÇáãÚÏÇÊ æÊÕãíã ÃÌÒÇÁ ÌÏíÏÉ áåÇ áÊÞæã ÈæÙÇÆÝ ÅÖÇÝíÉ áã Êßä ÈåÇ ãä ÞÈá.        ÊÕÜãÜíÜÜã æÅäÊÇÌ ÞÜØÚ ÛÜíÇÑ ÈÏíáÉ Ýí ÍÇáÉ ÚÜÜÜÏã æÌÜæÏ ÞØÚ ÇáÛíÇÑ ÇáÃÕáíÉ.      ÊÕãíã ÓíÇÑÇÊ ßåÑÈíÉ Ãæ åíÏÑæáíßíÉ ááÊäÞá ÏÇÎá ÇáãæÇÞÚ æíãßä ÊÌåíÒåÇ ÈÊÌåíÒÇÊ ÇáÓíÇÑÇÊ .      ÊÕãíã æÅäÊÇÌ ÅÓØãÈÇÊ ÍÞä ÈáÇÓÊíß æÅÓØãÈÇÊ ÊÔÛíá ÇáÕÇÌ æÅÓØãÈÇÊ ÓÈÇßÉ ãÚÇÏä.      ÊÕãíã æÓÇÆá äÞá ÇáÍÑßÉ ãËá ÚáÈ ÇáÊÑæÓ æãÎÝÖÇÊ ÇáÓÑÚÉ æÚÇãæÏ ÇáßÑÏÇä æÇáÓíæÑ..      ÊÜÕÜãÜíÜã ÏæÇÆÑ ÇáåÜíÏÑæáíß æÊÕãíã æÅäÊÇÌ ÞØÚ ÇáÛíÇÑ ÇáÎÇÕÉ ÈåÇ ßãÇ íãßä ÊæÑíÏ ÇáÏæÇÆÑ ÓÇÈÞÉ ÇáÊÌãíÚ.       ÚÜãÜá ÑÓÜÜæãÇÊ åäÏÓíÉ ááãÇßíäÇÊ ÇáãæÌæÏÉ áÅÚÇÏÉ ÅäÊÇÌåÇ Ãæ ÍÝÙåÇ ÈÇáÅÖÇÝÉÇáì ßá ÇáÞæÇÆã ÇááÇÒãÉ ááÅäÊÇÌ.       Úãá ãÍÇßÇÉ ááÍÑßÉ æÇáÊÍãíá ááãÇßíäÇÊ æÇáåíÇßá ÇáãæÌæÏÉ Ãæ ÇáÊì íÊã ÊÕäíÚåÇ áÓåæáÉ ÊÍÏíÏ äÞÇØ ÇáÖÚÝ ÝíåÇ.       ßÇÏ ÓÜÜæá  Tel : 002-010-5090156  E-Mail : Cadsoul@...   Web Site : www.cadsoul.com        		 ---------------------------------  Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click.    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]|
9517|9516|2005-11-12 10:30:03|CADsoul|نصمم ونصنع لك أي ماكينة|ßÇÏ ÓÜÜæá  ÇáãÄÓÓÉ ÇáãÕÑíÉ ááÊÕãíãÇÊ  ÇáÕäÇÚíÉ    äÍä äÕãã áßã ÇáãÇßíäÇÊ   æ äÍä äÕäÚåÇ   äÍä äÞæã ÈÊÕãíã ÃíÉ ãÇßíäÇÊ Ãæ ãÚÏÉ ááÚãÜíÜá ÍÓÈ ÇáãæÇÕÝÜÇÊ ÇáãØÜáæÈÉ æÅÚØÇÆå ãáÝ ÊÕãíã ßÇãá  íãßä ÊäÝíÐå Ýí Çí ãßÇä.  äÍä äÞæã ÈÊÜäÜÝÜÜíÜÐ ÇáÊÕãíãÇÊ Ýì ãÕÇäÚäÇ ÍÓÈ ÇáãæÇÕÝÜÇÊ ÇáãØÜáæÈÉ ÊãÇãÇ æÊÓáíãåÇ Çáì ÇáÚÜãÜíá Ýí Ãí ãßÇä Ýí ÇáÚÇáã.  äÍä äÞÏã ãÌãæÚÉ ßíÑÉ ãä ÇáäãÇÐÌ ááãÇßíäÇÊ æÇáãÚÏÇÊ íãßääÇ ÊÕãíãåǺ íÎÊÜÇÑ ÇáÚãíÜá ãäåÇ ãÇ íÊäÜÇÓÈ ãÚå Ëã íÞæã ÈÊäÝíÐåÇ Ýì ãÕäÚå.    äÍä äÞÏã ÎÏãÉ ÇáÏÚã ÇáÝäì æ ÇáÅÔÑÇÝ Úáì ÊäÝíÐ ÚíäÉ áÊÕãíãÇÊäÇ  Ýí ãÕäÚ ÇáÚãíá .  æÊÚãá ÇáãÄÓÓÉ ÇáãÕÑíÉ ááÊÕãíãÇÊ ÇáÕäÇÚíÉ Ýí ÇáãÌÇáÇÊ ÇáÂÊíÉ :-      ÊÕãíã æÅäÊÇÌ ÇáãÇßíäÇÊ ÇáãæÌæÏÉ Ýí ÇáÃÓæÇÞ ÈÊßáÝÉ ÃÞá ãÚ ÅãßÇäíÉ ÅÖÇÝÉ ÃíÉ æÙÇÆÝ ÌÏíÏÉ áåÇ ãØáæÈÉ ááÚãá .      ÊÕãíã æÅäÊÇÌ ãÇßíäÇÊ ÊÞæã ÈÃÚãÇá ãÍÏÏÉ ááÚãíá áíÓÊ ãÊæÝÑÉ ÈÇáÃÓæÇÞ æ ÍÓÈ ÇáãæÇÕÝÇÊ ÇáãØáæÈÉ.      ÊÚÏíá ÇáãÚÏÇÊ æÊÕãíã ÃÌÒÇÁ ÌÏíÏÉ áåÇ áÊÞæã ÈæÙÇÆÝ ÅÖÇÝíÉ áã Êßä ÈåÇ ãä ÞÈá.        ÊÕÜãÜíÜÜã æÅäÊÇÌ ÞÜØÚ ÛÜíÇÑ ÈÏíáÉ Ýí ÍÇáÉ ÚÜÜÜÏã æÌÜæÏ ÞØÚ ÇáÛíÇÑ ÇáÃÕáíÉ.      ÊÕãíã ÓíÇÑÇÊ ßåÑÈíÉ Ãæ åíÏÑæáíßíÉ ááÊäÞá ÏÇÎá ÇáãæÇÞÚ æíãßä ÊÌåíÒåÇ ÈÊÌåíÒÇÊ ÇáÓíÇÑÇÊ .      ÊÕãíã æÅäÊÇÌ ÅÓØãÈÇÊ ÍÞä ÈáÇÓÊíß æÅÓØãÈÇÊ ÊÔÛíá ÇáÕÇÌ æÅÓØãÈÇÊ ÓÈÇßÉ ãÚÇÏä.      ÊÕãíã æÓÇÆá äÞá ÇáÍÑßÉ ãËá ÚáÈ ÇáÊÑæÓ æãÎÝÖÇÊ ÇáÓÑÚÉ æÚÇãæÏ ÇáßÑÏÇä æÇáÓíæÑ..      ÊÜÕÜãÜíÜã ÏæÇÆÑ ÇáåÜíÏÑæáíß æÊÕãíã æÅäÊÇÌ ÞØÚ ÇáÛíÇÑ ÇáÎÇÕÉ ÈåÇ ßãÇ íãßä ÊæÑíÏ ÇáÏæÇÆÑ ÓÇÈÞÉ ÇáÊÌãíÚ.       ÚÜãÜá ÑÓÜÜæãÇÊ åäÏÓíÉ ááãÇßíäÇÊ ÇáãæÌæÏÉ áÅÚÇÏÉ ÅäÊÇÌåÇ Ãæ ÍÝÙåÇ ÈÇáÅÖÇÝÉÇáì ßá ÇáÞæÇÆã ÇááÇÒãÉ ááÅäÊÇÌ.       Úãá ãÍÇßÇÉ ááÍÑßÉ æÇáÊÍãíá ááãÇßíäÇÊ æÇáåíÇßá ÇáãæÌæÏÉ Ãæ ÇáÊì íÊã ÊÕäíÚåÇ áÓåæáÉ ÊÍÏíÏ äÞÇØ ÇáÖÚÝ ÝíåÇ.       ßÇÏ ÓÜÜæá  Tel : 002-010-5090156  E-Mail : Cadsoul@...   Web Site : www.cadsoul.com      		 ---------------------------------  Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click.    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]|
9518|9512|2005-11-12 14:00:37|brentswain38|Re: Swain Rendezvous|Sounds good. Newcastle Island in Nanaimo  has lots of anchoring and  camping space. Brent  --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "mickeyolaf" <mickeyolaf@y...>  wrote:  > > I am hoping to launch this spring and if there is any interest I   would volunteer to arrange a   > BC Swain Boats Rendezvous at a mid Gulf Islands bay late this coming   summer. One that's   > sheltered and has a decent BBQ'ing beach. Marinas charge too much for   group space.  > The Marconi rigs could tow the Junks so we are all there at the same   time. Maybe Swain    > origami built boats should have a burgee to fly in the rigging. How   about crossed cutting   > torches over the letters BS? > |
9519|9505|2005-11-12 14:19:07|edward_stoneuk|Re: Ben's heater in a cupboard|Old Ben,  What does RVS stand for?  I guess it is the slotted stainless or  inox.  I have an old Blakes parafin (kerosene) pressurised heater,  which I intend to use.  I was thinking of building some cupboards or  lockers over it for storing salt, herbs, spices, socks, underwear and  the like.  Regards, Ted|
9520|9512|2005-11-12 18:14:53|seeratlas|Re: Swain Rendezvous|Maybe Swain    > origami built boats should have a burgee to fly in the rigging. How  about crossed cutting   > torches over the letters BS? >   RFLMAO"  hehehe seer|
9521|9383|2005-11-12 20:02:36|tazmannusa|Swain 26|Hello All  Ive ben working on the hull sides today, and I had a hack of a time  when I started pulling on the ears the chine wouldnt even come close  enough to start welding, tryed proping up the ends and it made it  worse. finally gave up on that idea and cut the forward chine 6" more toward  the bow and wraped a chain around the whole thing with a binder and  forced it together, kept working it on both ends till it all came  together and when I got to the center the ears were 9/16 to long on  the chine side so i double checked all the measurements and sure as  shit thats the way it was on the plans, then I made an uneducated  quess and recut the center to fit and left the keel end the same. so  far they look ok, had to do the exact same for the other side. I quess  I will find out tommorrow when I pull the sides together.  Has anyone else had these problems or do I have my head on backwards? I posted some picture in origamiboats2 photo file tom's BS26  Take care Tom|
9522|9383|2005-11-13 10:14:51|tazmannusa|Swain 26|I think I figured out my folding problem, The 26 is 10gage plate and  being shorter theres not enough weight on the ends, If anyone building  the 26 and you have the problem of it folding rite try proping the  ends up about a foot and have helpers sit on the ends, stick something  solid under the first 6" of chine and start cranking, then it should  start pulling the seam together. once you get it started rite then it  goes pretty easy.   Has anyone built the 26 as a 26 before? Tom|
9523|9383|2005-11-13 10:24:36|Leif Thomsen|SV: [origamiboats] Swain 26|Hi Tom,  I have just viewed the Origami Film made by Alex and Brent. They use exactly the technice You describe. They didn´t need the  helpers. Otherwise the same. Alex boat is a 36 but I guess the same need there. Leif  -----Ursprungligt meddelande----- Från: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com [mailto:origamiboats@yahoogroups.com]För tazmannusa Skickat: den 13 november 2005 16:14 Till: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Ämne: [origamiboats] Swain 26     I think I figured out my folding problem, The 26 is 10gage plate and being shorter theres not enough weight on the ends, If anyone building the 26 and you have the problem of it folding rite try proping the ends up about a foot and have helpers sit on the ends, stick something solid under the first 6" of chine and start cranking, then it should start pulling the seam together. once you get it started rite then it goes pretty easy.   Has anyone built the 26 as a 26 before? Tom        To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links|
9524|9383|2005-11-13 10:47:12|tom|Re: Swain 26|Hello Leif  I would emagine the 36 and being 3/16 plate plate sides theres enough  weight on the ends that it starts pulling together, when I started pulling,  the ends pulled up like a snake and the sides twisted out so I had to go to  the chain and binder trick. I dont have any helpers eather. Tom  ----- Original Message -----  From: "Leif Thomsen" <leif@...> To: <origamiboats@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, November 13, 2005 7:24 AM Subject: SV: [origamiboats] Swain 26   > Hi Tom, > > I have just viewed the Origami Film made by Alex and Brent. They use  > exactly > the technice You describe. They didn´t need the  helpers. Otherwise the > same. Alex boat is a 36 but I guess the same need there. > Leif > > -----Ursprungligt meddelande----- > Från: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:origamiboats@yahoogroups.com]För tazmannusa > Skickat: den 13 november 2005 16:14 > Till: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > Ämne: [origamiboats] Swain 26 > > >  I think I figured out my folding problem, The 26 is 10gage plate and > being shorter theres not enough weight on the ends, If anyone building > the 26 and you have the problem of it folding rite try proping the > ends up about a foot and have helpers sit on the ends, stick something > solid under the first 6" of chine and start cranking, then it should > start pulling the seam together. once you get it started rite then it > goes pretty easy. >  Has anyone built the 26 as a 26 before? > Tom > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:  > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > |
9525|9383|2005-11-13 11:54:07|Gerd|Re: Swain 26|Tom, your hull looks great! a couple more hours and your hull is up -  and whatever your problems were, if you would not go the origami  way, you would still be there building your strongback or sweat to  set up the frames now ;-)  Gerd   The YAGO PROJECT at http://www.justmueller.com/boats/   --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "tom" <tazmann@i...> wrote: > > Hello Leif >  I would emagine the 36 and being 3/16 plate plate sides theres  enough  > weight on the ends that it starts pulling together, when I started  pulling,  > the ends pulled up like a snake and the sides twisted out so I had  to go to  > the chain and binder trick. I dont have any helpers eather. > Tom > ----- Original Message -----  > From: "Leif Thomsen" <leif@l...> > To: <origamiboats@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, November 13, 2005 7:24 AM > Subject: SV: [origamiboats] Swain 26 >  >  > > Hi Tom, > > > > I have just viewed the Origami Film made by Alex and Brent. They  use  > > exactly > > the technice You describe. They didn´t need the  helpers.  Otherwise the > > same. Alex boat is a 36 but I guess the same need there. > > Leif > > > > -----Ursprungligt meddelande----- > > Från: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:origamiboats@yahoogroups.com]För tazmannusa > > Skickat: den 13 november 2005 16:14 > > Till: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > Ämne: [origamiboats] Swain 26 > > > > > >  I think I figured out my folding problem, The 26 is 10gage  plate and > > being shorter theres not enough weight on the ends, If anyone  building > > the 26 and you have the problem of it folding rite try proping  the > > ends up about a foot and have helpers sit on the ends, stick  something > > solid under the first 6" of chine and start cranking, then it  should > > start pulling the seam together. once you get it started rite  then it > > goes pretty easy. > >  Has anyone built the 26 as a 26 before? > > Tom > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:  > > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > |
9526|9526|2005-11-13 13:10:04|khooper_fboats|Thermo King Diesel|I know people have talked about using reefer engines before but nothing ever seems to come of it.  I've been watching these four-cylinder Thermo King engines--this Isuzu C201 changed hands this morning:  http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Thermo-king-diesel-engine_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ50466QQitemZ4588336069QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW  There was another one the other day. They seem quite common in running condition for very little money. The power curve would seem to be ideal, about 36 HP continuous at ~1800 RPM from what I'm reading.  Apparently some of the C201s found their way into forklifts (Hyster, others?) but vast numbers were made as Thermo King reefer engines. These have no throttles, just governors.  What would it need to marinize it, assuming keel cooling and a dry exhaust? Probably a much upgraded starter...a throttle assembly...a jacketed manifold. Several sturdy pump/alternator mounts. What am I missing?  --Ken|
9527|9500|2005-11-13 16:27:22|cirejay|Skype - Re: UNLIMITED Worldwide Long Distance Calling|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III" <ben_azo@h...> wrote:  > > 39 or 50 dollars a month ????? > I use my Skype with a  Tiptel 115 VoIP USB phone with display > dayly , it works great . > When I go for a business appointment I usualy use my wife's > Flybook : http://www.flybook.biz/en/   cause its a lot lighter > than my Panasonic CF-29 , the Skype works great even with a > Nokia bluetooth wireless earpiece wich is even discreter in > public places . > I payed 10 Euro deposit for calls to usual non-Skype phones , > I still have 3 Euro left afther 3 months happy use so I just  > payed again 25 Euro provision and I am sure this will give me > again months of extreem low international communication freedom. > I never called Alex , our beloved webmaster even if he is on > my Skype friends list so that communication is totaly free > between us , and I wonder if Alex is as happy as I am with Skype, > and if he uses it regularly . > I can state I am extreemly happy for now and my phone cost > decreased dramaticaly , I also save a lot of time not having > to go to internet callcenters or having to use the prepayd > calling carts anymore. > All people living and travelling on boats are confronted with > ease of communication . > Receiving email attachments in the grip-file format used > to receive data for weatherforcast and waveheight is the > most important for me [ I use MaxSea blue water for navigation ] > I am allways interested in the communication topic , > and I love to keep it simple and as cheap as possible. > Does anybody uses a simpler and cheaper system ???   Ben, a wonderfully indepth reply to SPAM. :-)  eric S/V Nebaras|
9528|9383|2005-11-13 20:24:11|tom|Re: Swain 26|Thanks  Gerd   Managed to get them together today without a hitch, Turned out ok, 1/4  hook in centers of chine and looking at the others in the photos there the  same. I will wait till transom is in and see how they look. at this point  the chines are only tacked together so it would be easy to modify them. I  didnt use blocks under chine corners to put it together I had the small  crane in my truck attached to about center of the hull at the stiffners on  the sides, made it a lot easyer working by myself to move it around to  alighn the seam + I didnt have to weld anything to the hull to attach  comealongs. I posted a few more pictures and maybee next weekend I'll get  the transom in. At least now its uprite so I dont have to worry about a tractor running over  it, they can see it Tom   ----- Original Message -----  From: "Gerd" <yago@...> To: <origamiboats@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, November 13, 2005 8:53 AM Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Swain 26   Tom, your hull looks great! a couple more hours and your hull is up -  and whatever your problems were, if you would not go the origami way, you would still be there building your strongback or sweat to set up the frames now ;-)  Gerd   The YAGO PROJECT at http://www.justmueller.com/boats/  --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "tom" <tazmann@i...> wrote: > > Hello Leif >  I would emagine the 36 and being 3/16 plate plate sides theres enough > weight on the ends that it starts pulling together, when I started pulling, > the ends pulled up like a snake and the sides twisted out so I had to go to > the chain and binder trick. I dont have any helpers eather. > Tom > ----- Original Message -----  > From: "Leif Thomsen" <leif@l...> > To: <origamiboats@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, November 13, 2005 7:24 AM > Subject: SV: [origamiboats] Swain 26 > > > > Hi Tom, > > > > I have just viewed the Origami Film made by Alex and Brent. They use > > exactly > > the technice You describe. They didn´t need the  helpers. Otherwise the > > same. Alex boat is a 36 but I guess the same need there. > > Leif > > > > -----Ursprungligt meddelande----- > > Från: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:origamiboats@yahoogroups.com]För tazmannusa > > Skickat: den 13 november 2005 16:14 > > Till: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > Ämne: [origamiboats] Swain 26 > > > > > >  I think I figured out my folding problem, The 26 is 10gage plate and > > being shorter theres not enough weight on the ends, If anyone building > > the 26 and you have the problem of it folding rite try proping the > > ends up about a foot and have helpers sit on the ends, stick something > > solid under the first 6" of chine and start cranking, then it should > > start pulling the seam together. once you get it started rite then it > > goes pretty easy. > >  Has anyone built the 26 as a 26 before? > > Tom > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >        To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:  origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links |
9529|9383|2005-11-14 05:03:49|Puck III|Re: Swain 26|Hi Tom , thanks for the fine pics you posted , as usual I think pics say so much more than words . I like you use the date as name , this shows how fast you work even working alone . Are you working full time on the boat ? or only  during freetime and or holidays ? will you keep some sort of hour and expenditures account ?  Personaly I think the 26 is a very interesting boat cause she will be easy to transport by road or as cargo and its a fact that many small boats did actualy ofthen more sailing and voyaging than larger ones . Small boat.... small problems :-)  Some more questions if you can spare the time : will you build the finn or twinkeel version ? Did you considered an easy collapseble mast ? Have you decided on accomodation plans ? What are the voyages or use you plan for your boat ? Cause that sure is of interest to all .  Could you use any help regarding all this , feel free to ask , I sure am most interested in your project and willing to give a hand where I can.  Good Luck with the building , please keep us posted especialy with those pretty pics .  Old Ben   --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "tazmannusa" <tazmann@i...> wrote: > >   I think I figured out my folding problem, The 26 is 10gage plate  and  > being shorter theres not enough weight on the ends, If anyone  building  > the 26 and you have the problem of it folding rite try proping the  > ends up about a foot and have helpers sit on the ends, stick  something  > solid under the first 6" of chine and start cranking, then it should  > start pulling the seam together. once you get it started rite then it  > goes pretty easy. >   Has anyone built the 26 as a 26 before? > Tom > |
9530|9512|2005-11-14 06:12:52|Jim Douglas|Re: Swain Rendezvous|Hi Brent,  Newcastle is particularly good for those of us who aspire to or do  not as yet have our steelies in water as yet!  Not only is there camping but there is a small marine ferry that  takes foot traffic over to the island.  Nanaimo, is of course central both to the island and from Vancouver  and the lower mainland of B.C.  Brent!!!! Honestly, just say the day, the weekend (hopefully) and we  will all sink the ferries just getting there! but be wise, pls just  make the time for the get together when we have our most favourable  weather in July , August or September.  I've had the luck to go there at time or two in the past, the trails  let you walk right aroumd the island if you like. I have done a  couple of water colours of the place, so trust me, it's an inspiring  place to be.....but add a bunch of Swain Boats.....Ah I'm sure  you'll all be on over load...and then some!!!!  Jim Douglas North Vancouver, B.C.     --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "brentswain38"  <brentswain38@h...> wrote:  > > Sounds good. Newcastle Island in Nanaimo  has lots of anchoring   and   > camping space. > Brent >  > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "mickeyolaf"   <mickeyolaf@y...>   > wrote: > > > > I am hoping to launch this spring and if there is any interest I  > would volunteer to arrange a  > > BC Swain Boats Rendezvous at a mid Gulf Islands bay late this   coming   > summer. One that's  > > sheltered and has a decent BBQ'ing beach. Marinas charge too   much for   > group space. > > The Marconi rigs could tow the Junks so we are all there at the   same   > time. Maybe Swain   > > origami built boats should have a burgee to fly in the rigging.   How   > about crossed cutting  > > torches over the letters BS? > > > |
9531|9383|2005-11-14 09:37:19|tom|Re: Swain 26|Hello Old Ben  Glad to here others are interested in the 26.  I like the idea of  trailering home after cruise, slip fee's on Caliifornia coast are a premium.  One freind of mine just rented slip in Oxnard for his 34ft and it's $375.00  a month.   I am working on the boat in my free time, from here on out it will be  pretty mutch the weekends. Finally started big work progect and will keep me  real buisy for about 6 months. As far as expenditures, I will try to keep a  rough account but sofar I have $1200 in the steel for the hull and transom  and about 5 days,could have saved a day or two if I would have bought full  length sheets, when I first got the 20ft sheets layed them out and made the  mistake of grinding a small v for both sides then started welding them  together with 1-1/2" long welds every foot or so and jumping from sheet to  sheet  letting it cool complety before welding again, whent I was done on  one side of both sheet the weld had pulled up and had a slight v so mistake  2 thinking it would pull back straight welding the other side it didnt it  magnified the v . So thinking about my options I desided to recut , cut a 1"  stip out where the weld was, grinded small v on one side , tacked small  angles irons accross sheets to keep them straight, welded top side complete  flip over back gouged,welded again, fliped over took angles off and walla  streight.  Well I have to head to work, take care Tom  ----- Original Message -----  From: "Puck III" <ben_azo@...> To: <origamiboats@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, November 14, 2005 2:02 AM Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Swain 26   > Hi Tom , thanks for the fine pics you posted , > as usual I think pics say so much more than words . > I like you use the date as name , this shows how > fast you work even working alone . > Are you working full time on the boat ? or only > during freetime and or holidays ? will you keep > some sort of hour and expenditures account ? > > Personaly I think the 26 is a very interesting boat > cause she will be easy to transport by road or as > cargo and its a fact that many small boats did > actualy ofthen more sailing and voyaging than > larger ones . Small boat.... small problems :-) > > Some more questions if you can spare the time : > will you build the finn or twinkeel version ? > Did you considered an easy collapseble mast ? > Have you decided on accomodation plans ? > What are the voyages or use you plan for your > boat ? Cause that sure is of interest to all . > > Could you use any help regarding all this , > feel free to ask , I sure am most interested in > your project and willing to give a hand where I can. > > Good Luck with the building , please keep us posted > especialy with those pretty pics . > > Old Ben > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "tazmannusa" <tazmann@i...> wrote: >> >>   I think I figured out my folding problem, The 26 is 10gage plate > and >> being shorter theres not enough weight on the ends, If anyone > building >> the 26 and you have the problem of it folding rite try proping the >> ends up about a foot and have helpers sit on the ends, stick > something >> solid under the first 6" of chine and start cranking, then it should >> start pulling the seam together. once you get it started rite then it >> goes pretty easy. >>   Has anyone built the 26 as a 26 before? >> Tom >> > > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:  > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > |
9532|9383|2005-11-14 10:51:00|Gerd|Re: Swain 26|very nice Tom!! ;-) sweet, clean and simple!|
9533|9512|2005-11-14 16:45:14|brentswain38|Re: Swain Rendezvous|Late August or early september sounds best as that will inerfere  least with other summer plans. Remind us again when that time draws  near. Brent  --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Jim Douglas"  <conceptconversion@t...> wrote:  > > Hi Brent, >  > Newcastle is particularly good for those of us who aspire to or do  > not as yet have our steelies in water as yet! >  > Not only is there camping but there is a small marine ferry that  > takes foot traffic over to the island. >  > Nanaimo, is of course central both to the island and from Vancouver  > and the lower mainland of B.C. >  > Brent!!!! Honestly, just say the day, the weekend (hopefully) and   we   > will all sink the ferries just getting there! but be wise, pls just  > make the time for the get together when we have our most favourable  > weather in July , August or September. >  > I've had the luck to go there at time or two in the past, the   trails   > let you walk right aroumd the island if you like. I have done a  > couple of water colours of the place, so trust me, it's an   inspiring   > place to be.....but add a bunch of Swain Boats.....Ah I'm sure  > you'll all be on over load...and then some!!!! >  > Jim Douglas > North Vancouver, B.C.  >  >  >  > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "brentswain38"  > <brentswain38@h...> wrote: > > > > Sounds good. Newcastle Island in Nanaimo  has lots of anchoring  > and  > > camping space. > > Brent > >  > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "mickeyolaf"  > <mickeyolaf@y...>  > > wrote: > > > > > > I am hoping to launch this spring and if there is any interest   I   > > would volunteer to arrange a  > > > BC Swain Boats Rendezvous at a mid Gulf Islands bay late this  > coming  > > summer. One that's  > > > sheltered and has a decent BBQ'ing beach. Marinas charge too  > much for  > > group space. > > > The Marconi rigs could tow the Junks so we are all there at the  > same  > > time. Maybe Swain   > > > origami built boats should have a burgee to fly in the rigging.  > How  > > about crossed cutting  > > > torches over the letters BS? > > > > > > |
9534|9512|2005-11-14 16:47:17|brentswain38|Re: Swain Rendezvous|How about something simpler to make , like the cut uot shape of the  plate pattern for a hull. Brent   --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "seeratlas" <seeratlas@y...> wrote: > >  Maybe Swain   > > origami built boats should have a burgee to fly in the rigging. How > about crossed cutting  > > torches over the letters BS? > > >  > RFLMAO" >  > hehehe > seer > |
9535|9383|2005-11-14 16:52:19|brentswain38|Re: Swain 26|Prop the sheer pipe up a bit to give a bit of angle at the chine. That  will start it going in the right direction. Brent    --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "tazmannusa" <tazmann@i...> wrote: > >   I think I figured out my folding problem, The 26 is 10gage plate  and  > being shorter theres not enough weight on the ends, If anyone  building  > the 26 and you have the problem of it folding rite try proping the  > ends up about a foot and have helpers sit on the ends, stick  something  > solid under the first 6" of chine and start cranking, then it should  > start pulling the seam together. once you get it started rite then it  > goes pretty easy. >   Has anyone built the 26 as a 26 before? > Tom > |
9536|9536|2005-11-14 17:05:58|brentswain38|Steel cutting skillsaw|I just received a princess Auto catalogue with the steel cutting  carbide tipped blade skillsaw in it for $200. They say it will cut up  to 9/32 steel plate. Has anybody tried one yet? $200 is far less than  the cost of gas, and would make cleaner, distortion free cuts if it  works. Brent|
9537|9536|2005-11-14 17:22:09|Jim Ragsdale|Re: Steel cutting skillsaw|Check this one out. http://www.medfordtools.com/evolution/evo180.html  says a blade will cut 260' of 1/4 plate and the replacements are only $39. Looks like a really good tool to have. You could clamp a bar to the sheet as a guide and cut a perfectly straight cut. I would think you could cut at least as fast as a torch.    ----- Original Message -----  From: "brentswain38" <brentswain38@...> To: <origamiboats@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, November 14, 2005 4:05 PM Subject: [origamiboats] Steel cutting skillsaw   > I just received a princess Auto catalogue with the steel cutting > carbide tipped blade skillsaw in it for $200. They say it will cut up > to 9/32 steel plate. Has anybody tried one yet? $200 is far less than > the cost of gas, and would make cleaner, distortion free cuts if it > works. > Brent > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > |
9538|9536|2005-11-14 17:35:17|Jerry Scovel|Re: Steel cutting skillsaw|I use the 7 1/2" fiber blades from Harbor Freight, they cost about $3 each, leave a very smooth finish and last quite a while if you do not force them.   on 11/14/05 4:21 PM, Jim Ragsdale at echo6@... wrote:  Check this one out. http://www.medfordtools.com/evolution/evo180.html  says a blade will cut 260' of 1/4 plate and the replacements are only $39. Looks like a really good tool to have. You could clamp a bar to the sheet as a guide and cut a perfectly straight cut. I would think you could cut at least as fast as a torch.    ----- Original Message ----- From: "brentswain38" <brentswain38@...> To: <origamiboats@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, November 14, 2005 4:05 PM Subject: [origamiboats] Steel cutting skillsaw   > I just received a princess Auto catalogue with the steel cutting > carbide tipped blade skillsaw in it for $200. They say it will cut up > to 9/32 steel plate. Has anybody tried one yet? $200 is far less than > the cost of gas, and would make cleaner, distortion free cuts if it > works. > Brent > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > >    To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com    SPONSORED LINKS         British columbia canada <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=British+columbia+canada&w1=British+colu mbia+canada&w2=Vancouver+island&w3=Yacht&w4=Victoria+bc&c=4&s=79&.sig=9R67WC gMr5OvBLa-xHHyGA> Vancouver island <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Vancouver+island&w1=British+columbia+ca nada&w2=Vancouver+island&w3=Yacht&w4=Victoria+bc&c=4&s=79&.sig=yL5WOtgPnpYAm d1P5N16cw> Yacht  <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Yacht&w1=British+columbia+canada&w2=Van couver+island&w3=Yacht&w4=Victoria+bc&c=4&s=79&.sig=VvQDFUjkrcc6EJ4xXP0vjg> Victoria bc  <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Victoria+bc&w1=British+columbia+canada& w2=Vancouver+island&w3=Yacht&w4=Victoria+bc&c=4&s=79&.sig=QTHu1FWCcMWsTCz7vG yGdg>          YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS   Visit your group "origamiboats <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats> " on the web.     To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:  origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <mailto:origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>    Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
9539|9536|2005-11-14 19:24:36|tom|Re: Steel cutting skillsaw|Hello Brent   I did a job a while back and there was one guy useing one to cut 12gage  perlins and it was cutting through like butter, little noisey though. He  couldnt tell me how long the blades last because he had just bought it. Tom  ----- Original Message -----  From: "brentswain38" <brentswain38@...> To: <origamiboats@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, November 14, 2005 2:05 PM Subject: [origamiboats] Steel cutting skillsaw   >I just received a princess Auto catalogue with the steel cutting > carbide tipped blade skillsaw in it for $200. They say it will cut up > to 9/32 steel plate. Has anybody tried one yet? $200 is far less than > the cost of gas, and would make cleaner, distortion free cuts if it > works. > Brent > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:  > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > |
9540|9536|2005-11-14 19:57:41|jfpacuas|Re: Steel cutting skillsaw|I bought a steel cutting blade for my old skilsaw about a month ago, it  cost $50US. I cut some 3/16 no problem. A friend had some 1/4" he  needed cut...again, no problem. I don't know how long it will last, but  it works great so far. The cuts are smooooooooth. I can't remember the  brand, but I will check tonight when I am at home. I wouldn't run out  and buy one for $200....  I plan to use it for most of my straight cuts.    In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "brentswain38" <brentswain38@h...>  wrote:  > > I just received a princess Auto catalogue with the steel cutting  > carbide tipped blade skillsaw in it for $200. They say it will cut up  > to 9/32 steel plate. Has anybody tried one yet? $200 is far less than  > the cost of gas, and would make cleaner, distortion free cuts if it  > works. > Brent > |
9541|9536|2005-11-14 20:45:49|kendall|Re: Steel cutting skillsaw|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "brentswain38" <brentswain38@h...> wrote:  > > I just received a princess Auto catalogue with the steel cutting  > carbide tipped blade skillsaw in it for $200. They say it will cut up  > to 9/32 steel plate. Has anybody tried one yet? $200 is far less than  > the cost of gas, and would make cleaner, distortion free cuts if it  > works. > Brent >     the saws that are made for steel cutting are manufactured to meet osha regs, so the blade is almost completely enclosed, and has a chip catcher on it, very good and safe saws, there is one called an evolution that I've used extensively and liked it will cut steel as well as regular saws cut wood, albeit slower.    there are a few companies that make steel cutter blades fr standard skill saws, the only one I've used is made by Morse, but it's a great blade. Drawbacks are that the metal is HOT when it comes out, and it goes averywhere just like sawdust does, wear eye protection, and be aware of bystanders.     If you can pick up an old porter cable saw (the BEST skill saw made in my opinion, as long as the blades on the correct side!) they have the dump tube that controls where the dust goes, cleanest saw you'll ever use place a winndow screen bag over the tube and it will catch the dust very well and make it easy to clean up afterwards (never leave the dust around, it'll rust stain stainless steel in an afternoon. (magnet on a stick placed in a plastic bag, pick up the shavings, then turn the bag inside out to dump it, all the chips stay in the bag)    Used the evolution saw at work, and cut steel beams and plate with it which were thicker than the 'max' by about 50%, saw never whined about it.   Ken|
9542|9536|2005-11-14 20:47:25|kendall|Re: Steel cutting skillsaw|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Jim Ragsdale" <echo6@c...> wrote:  > > Check this one out. > http://www.medfordtools.com/evolution/evo180.html >  > says a blade will cut 260' of 1/4 plate and the replacements are  only $39.  > Looks like a really good tool to have. You could clamp a bar to the  sheet as  > a guide and cut a perfectly straight cut. I would think you could cut at > least as fast as a torch. >  >       That's the saw! panasonic also makes a cordless one.  Ken.|
9543|9505|2005-11-14 21:03:37|Puck III|Re: Ben's heater in a cupboard|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "edward_stoneuk" <tedstone@g...>  wrote:  > > Old Ben, >  > What does RVS stand for?  I guess it is the slotted stainless or  > inox.  I have an old Blakes parafin (kerosene) pressurised heater,  > which I intend to use.  I was thinking of building some cupboards or  > lockers over it for storing salt, herbs, spices, socks, underwear and  > the like. >  > Regards, > Ted >  Hi Ted , your guess is correct , sorry to have used a dutch abreviation for Rust Free Steel . I am not sure if I had a look at the same Blake model you mention , where is the exhaust ? on the back or on top ? All you realy need to think of is permanent ease of acces , good insulation and using the produced heat at your advantage. I had a fire [ easy to extinguish and no damage at all ] that started  on the little Puck pressure system due to a leak in the flexible   connections needed for swivelling with the cardansystems . I cant imagine the damage liquid gass would have caused , so my advise for the blake would be the old fashion cuppertube I used for the heater in the cupboard , safer I think. I think cupboards or lockers can contain anything realy that support a bit of warming up . Good insulation and good aeration that you can keep open in heavy rain stays a must for an agreable atmosphere . If I would live on board I sure would have a good cockpit tent, a professional coastercaptain has the same boat I use , he has instaled an easy collapsable dutch mastsystem and has the cockpit tent and a teak deck , I have the pics and from time to time I realy envy him,especialy in wintertime.... am I becoming weak? Probably all people do when becoming older , I sure feel a lot safer with a singel-engined sailboat than with a twin-engined motorboat and I like comforts more every year . Build yourself a good interior navstation and you will not regret. You must know ABEMAMA [ PBO ] thats my kind of use now :-) with the advantage of twin-keels and small draft.  regards Old Ben|
9544|9198|2005-11-14 21:23:00|Henri Naths|Re: Marinizing an engine|Thanks  Richard , H.    ----- Original Message -----    From: richytill    To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com    Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2005 11:54 AM   Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Marinizing an engine     Henri, non turbo means less expense and less complicated.  I have    tried to keep thing simple--the turbo would be one more system to    maintain.  I need to check through the log book more carefully but we    came from Pender Harbour to Gibsons Landing and Burrard bridge to    Long Bay Gambier on around 3.5 L per hour(@ 2100--2500 rpm) as far as    I can tell.  I need to refine my sounding stick and average out the    records more to give a more accurate consumption rate.  This is with    a Campbell sailor prop' and that is better progress than the previous    Michigan prop.  Speed varies according to conditions but is good at    5.8 knts where the hull slips along easy.    rt            --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Henri Naths" <c_hnaths@t...>    wrote:   >   > Hi Richard    > Nice to here from you concerning vw.( I am assuming a16d is 1600 cc    non turbo ) Do you have stats on per hr fuel consumption as per rpm    range?    > Is there a reason you chose non turbo other than the availability    factor?   > Thanks     > H.   >    >   ----- Original Message -----    >   From: richytill    >   To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com    >   Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2005 10:25 AM   >   Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Marinizing an engine   >    >    >   Engine folks,    >    >    >   Here is a cost breakdown, by the year, on installing a VW 16D    engine    >   with a Borg Warner 71c transmission.  Year 1: $1679.03; year 2:    >   $2402.80; year 3: $1497.50; year 4: $1007.27--this should total    >   $6586.60.  This includes all the anti freeze; oil coolers; hoses;    >   clamps; 2 racor fuel filters; prop and spare prop; gaskets;    timing    >   belt; glow plugs; making the flywheel assy'; external filters;    >   exhhaust system and every little nut, bolt, gasket, morse control    >   cable, with prop shaft, stuffing box etc.   >    >   I have been motoring for around 70 hours now and am pleased with    the    >   system--performance is as predicted from calculations (7.2 knts    @3200    >   rpm),parts are affordable and easy to come by.  The engine is    limited    >   to 3300 rpm for peak volumetric efficiency.  Manifold is cooled    by    >   bilge blower fan exiting above underwater exhaust anti-siphon    loop.     >   Starter must be protected with an aluminum heat shield.  rt   >    >    >    >    >    >    >   --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "T & D CAIN" <thcain@o...>    wrote:   >   >   >   > Gord, Unfortunately the people who were responsible for    >   investigating or   >   > removing the engine from the boat damaged the Bowman combination   >   > heatexchanger/manifold/head tank, which is a model VW150 and is    >   allegedly   >   > still available new as are all the parts.   >   > The damage is to both ends of the cast alloy section which    houses    >   the tube   >   > stack. About 6 tubes in the stack have been indented as a    result.    >   Number one   >   > cylinder exhaust stub flange was also damaged. I suppose the    >   casting could   >   > be repaired, but those tubes would be a pain to replace or fix    as    >   they are   >   > silver brazed to the header ends of the stack. As you probably    >   know, the   >   > neoprene end caps need to fit and seal both the alloy ends and    the    >   tube   >   > stack headers.   >   > I can take some photos of the parts if required.   >   > This model heat exchanger is identical to mine.   >   > I had a look in the top of the camshaft case and the damn thing    >   looked like   >   > new! Apparently the engine was seized (#3 cylinder) and a    A$12000    >   Yanmar was   >   > installed by the new owner.   >   > I stripped most easily removable bits including the damper    drive    >   which   >   > looked new --- I should have just taken the whole engine as it    was    >   headed   >   > for the tip.   >   > Terry   >   > -----Original Message-----   >   > From: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com    >   [mailto:origamiboats@yahoogroups.com] On   >   > Behalf Of gschnell   >   > Sent: Monday, 24 October 2005 03:06   >   > To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com   >   > Subject: Re: [origamiboats] Marinizing an engine   >   >   >    >    >    >    >    >    >    >   To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com   >   To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-   unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com    >   Yahoo! Groups Links   >    >    >    >       >    >    >    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]   >          To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com   To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com    Yahoo! Groups Links           [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
9545|9383|2005-11-14 21:24:18|tazmannusa|Swain 26|Hello Again  I managed to get the transom in today and it made a big deferance  on the hull shape and looks. I copyed the pattern from the plans as  good as I could and I think it turned out nice. I can see why the  trend is for more of a teardrop shape a lot easyer to put in but you  would have the transom deeper in the water. mine should be just a  little above the actual waterline if I balance it rite. Brent shows  in his book the staps atached to the bottom to hold the jack to push  up the center for the transom and it work pretty good but I had to  use 3 of them across the bottom to get it to shape. I posted a few  more pictures let me know what you think.  Old Ben   You were asking about keels and interior and I'm not 100% desided  yet, I am thinking about a single keel, on the 26 the keels are the  same size wheather you use one or two, so if I use two theres a lot  more weted surface area and only about a foot deferance in draft.  Inside Im thinking large V berth forward then wrap around couch  with drop leaf table atached to compression post,small galley port  small head starboard then a couple quarter berths with drop boards  to use as sea births and no inboard engine, removeable water tank  where engine would be. hope I can fit it in like that but dont know  till I can get inside and start measureing things out.  The mast, It will not be wood, we had a saying in the race  club, "theres the ones that have broke and the ones that will brake"  as you can tell Im not a fan for wood mast, probably end up useing  aluminum. I am open for any sugestions on the interior. Well take care Tom|
9546|9383|2005-11-15 00:38:30|josh Oen|Re: Swain 26|Tom  Is the pictures you posted available for all to view? if so I am not sure where its located at in the "Origami site"  Please explain as I am a new member to the group. Thanks Josh  --- tazmannusa <tazmann@...> wrote:   > Hello Again >  I managed to get the transom in today and it made a > big deferance  > on the hull shape and looks. I copyed the pattern > from the plans as  > good as I could and I think it turned out nice. I > can see why the  > trend is for more of a teardrop shape a lot easyer > to put in but you  > would have the transom deeper in the water. mine > should be just a  > little above the actual waterline if I balance it > rite. Brent shows  > in his book the staps atached to the bottom to hold > the jack to push  > up the center for the transom and it work pretty > good but I had to  > use 3 of them across the bottom to get it to shape. > I posted a few  > more pictures let me know what you think. >  Old Ben  >  You were asking about keels and interior and I'm > not 100% desided  > yet, I am thinking about a single keel, on the 26 > the keels are the  > same size wheather you use one or two, so if I use > two theres a lot  > more weted surface area and only about a foot > deferance in draft. >  Inside Im thinking large V berth forward then wrap > around couch  > with drop leaf table atached to compression > post,small galley port  > small head starboard then a couple quarter berths > with drop boards  > to use as sea births and no inboard engine, > removeable water tank  > where engine would be. hope I can fit it in like > that but dont know  > till I can get inside and start measureing things > out. >  The mast, It will not be wood, we had a saying in > the race  > club, "theres the ones that have broke and the ones > that will brake"  > as you can tell Im not a fan for wood mast, probably > end up useing  > aluminum. I am open for any sugestions on the > interior. > Well take care > Tom >  >  >  >     	 		  __________________________________  Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005  http://mail.yahoo.com|
9547|9383|2005-11-15 00:50:08|Alex Christie|Re: Swain 26|Josh,  the pics of Tom's 26 footer are posted on  Group 2, at  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats2  Group 1 photo section is all full.  Alex    On 14-Nov-05, at 9:38 PM, josh Oen wrote:  > Tom > >  Is the pictures you posted available for all to view? >  if so I am not sure where its located at in the >  "Origami site" > >  Please explain as I am a new member to the group. >  Thanks >  Josh   [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
9548|9383|2005-11-15 04:08:39|edward_stoneuk|Re: Swain 26|Tom,  Your transom looks good. I am impressed.  Regards,  Ted|
9549|9383|2005-11-15 08:22:31|tom|Re: Swain 26|Sorry bout that Josh I should have put link in posting http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats2 photos file tom's BS 26 Tom  ----- Original Message -----  From: "josh Oen" <josh_894@...> To: <origamiboats@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, November 14, 2005 9:38 PM Subject: Re: [origamiboats] Swain 26   > Tom > > Is the pictures you posted available for all to view? > if so I am not sure where its located at in the > "Origami site" > > Please explain as I am a new member to the group. > Thanks > Josh > > --- tazmannusa <tazmann@...> wrote: > >> Hello Again >>  I managed to get the transom in today and it made a >> big deferance >> on the hull shape and looks. I copyed the pattern >> from the plans as >> good as I could and I think it turned out nice. I >> can see why the >> trend is for more of a teardrop shape a lot easyer >> to put in but you >> would have the transom deeper in the water. mine >> should be just a >> little above the actual waterline if I balance it >> rite. Brent shows >> in his book the staps atached to the bottom to hold >> the jack to push >> up the center for the transom and it work pretty >> good but I had to >> use 3 of them across the bottom to get it to shape. >> I posted a few >> more pictures let me know what you think. >>  Old Ben >>  You were asking about keels and interior and I'm >> not 100% desided >> yet, I am thinking about a single keel, on the 26 >> the keels are the >> same size wheather you use one or two, so if I use >> two theres a lot >> more weted surface area and only about a foot >> deferance in draft. >>  Inside Im thinking large V berth forward then wrap >> around couch >> with drop leaf table atached to compression >> post,small galley port >> small head starboard then a couple quarter berths >> with drop boards >> to use as sea births and no inboard engine, >> removeable water tank >> where engine would be. hope I can fit it in like >> that but dont know >> till I can get inside and start measureing things >> out. >>  The mast, It will not be wood, we had a saying in >> the race >> club, "theres the ones that have broke and the ones >> that will brake" >> as you can tell Im not a fan for wood mast, probably >> end up useing >> aluminum. I am open for any sugestions on the >> interior. >> Well take care >> Tom >> >> >> >> > > > > > > __________________________________ > Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 > http://mail.yahoo.com > > > > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:  > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > |
9550|9383|2005-11-15 11:42:35|josh Oen|Re: Swain 26|Thanks...I did not realize there was an another "Origami" site and was able to view the pictures after I found it.  Your Hull shape looks like its coming along nicely. Where are you building the boat, is it in the Bay area?  Josh  --- tom <tazmann@...> wrote:   > Sorry bout that Josh I should have put link in > posting > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats2 > photos file tom's BS 26 > Tom > ----- Original Message -----  > From: "josh Oen" <josh_894@...> > To: <origamiboats@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Monday, November 14, 2005 9:38 PM > Subject: Re: [origamiboats] Swain 26 >  >  > > Tom > > > > Is the pictures you posted available for all to > view? > > if so I am not sure where its located at in the > > "Origami site" > > > > Please explain as I am a new member to the group. > > Thanks > > Josh > > > > --- tazmannusa <tazmann@...> wrote: > > > >> Hello Again > >>  I managed to get the transom in today and it > made a > >> big deferance > >> on the hull shape and looks. I copyed the pattern > >> from the plans as > >> good as I could and I think it turned out nice. I > >> can see why the > >> trend is for more of a teardrop shape a lot > easyer > >> to put in but you > >> would have the transom deeper in the water. mine > >> should be just a > >> little above the actual waterline if I balance it > >> rite. Brent shows > >> in his book the staps atached to the bottom to > hold > >> the jack to push > >> up the center for the transom and it work pretty > >> good but I had to > >> use 3 of them across the bottom to get it to > shape. > >> I posted a few > >> more pictures let me know what you think. > >>  Old Ben > >>  You were asking about keels and interior and I'm > >> not 100% desided > >> yet, I am thinking about a single keel, on the 26 > >> the keels are the > >> same size wheather you use one or two, so if I > use > >> two theres a lot > >> more weted surface area and only about a foot > >> deferance in draft. > >>  Inside Im thinking large V berth forward then > wrap > >> around couch > >> with drop leaf table atached to compression > >> post,small galley port > >> small head starboard then a couple quarter berths > >> with drop boards > >> to use as sea births and no inboard engine, > >> removeable water tank > >> where engine would be. hope I can fit it in like > >> that but dont know > >> till I can get inside and start measureing things > >> out. > >>  The mast, It will not be wood, we had a saying > in > >> the race > >> club, "theres the ones that have broke and the > ones > >> that will brake" > >> as you can tell Im not a fan for wood mast, > probably > >> end up useing > >> aluminum. I am open for any sugestions on the > >> interior. > >> Well take care > >> Tom > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________ > > Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 > > http://mail.yahoo.com > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to:   > origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:  > > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > >  >  >     	 		  __________________________________  Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005  http://mail.yahoo.com|
9551|9551|2005-11-15 12:01:10|josh_894|New Member question about  Origami  technique for Cats|Hi everyone  I've been following most of the discussions about engines,  construction and various issues on boat building using the Origami  Technique , and it seems like most of all the boats being built is  Monohull vessel.  Can this process be adapted to a multihull construction such as a  catamaran , and I'm not quite sure if you can apply the Origami  technique for making long slender hull such as those required for a  catamaran.     Josh|
9552|9505|2005-11-15 14:29:18|edward_stoneuk|Re: Ben's heater in a cupboard|Old Ben,  When I checked my parafin (kerosene) heater I found it isn't a Blakes  at all but a Taylors.  It is a vertical roestvrij staal cylinder with  the exhaust pipe coming out of the top.  Inside at the bottom is a  primus type pressure burner above which are several vertical expanded  metal cylinders that are heated by the burner.  We also have an old  Taylors parafin oven and two burner stove.  They are fed from a common  pressurised tank. I was thinking of having the heater sand blasted and  painted with black high temperature paint so that it emits more heat.  Abemama is a usefull boat and the articles are very interesting.   Built for comfort not for speed.  There is no harm in comfort.  Regards,  Ted|
9553|9551|2005-11-15 14:36:54|Puck III|Re: New Member question about  Origami  technique for Cats|Hi Josh  May I sugest you have a look at :  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/OrigamiPlyBoatDesign/ go over the pics , links and files in that repository Yahoo group, that only serves as place for info not for discussions . Look up the Derek Kelsall Origami composite grp cats in Links . The design method stays the same for grp , wood , alu and steel . Origami could be the lightest steelbuild , there is an older usual steelcat that could easely be redesigned for Origami if it is that what you are looking for .  Old Ben   --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "josh_894" <josh_894@y...> wrote: > > Hi everyone >  > I've been following most of the discussions about engines,  > construction and various issues on boat building using the Origami  > Technique , and it seems like most of all the boats being built is  > Monohull vessel.  > Can this process be adapted to a multihull construction such as a  > catamaran , and I'm not quite sure if you can apply the Origami  > technique for making long slender hull such as those required for a  > catamaran.   >  >  > Josh > |
9554|9383|2005-11-15 14:43:31|brentswain38|Re: Swain 26|I guess the decision may depend on where you live, and the tidal  range there, but here in Canada where everything below the  high tide  line is public, no one with a twin keeler will ever go back to a  single keeler. Brent   --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "tazmannusa" <tazmann@i...>  wrote:  > > Hello Again >  I managed to get the transom in today and it made a big deferance  > on the hull shape and looks. I copyed the pattern from the plans as  > good as I could and I think it turned out nice. I can see why the  > trend is for more of a teardrop shape a lot easyer to put in but   you   > would have the transom deeper in the water. mine should be just a  > little above the actual waterline if I balance it rite. Brent shows  > in his book the staps atached to the bottom to hold the jack to   push   > up the center for the transom and it work pretty good but I had to  > use 3 of them across the bottom to get it to shape. I posted a few  > more pictures let me know what you think. >  Old Ben  >  You were asking about keels and interior and I'm not 100% desided  > yet, I am thinking about a single keel, on the 26 the keels are the  > same size wheather you use one or two, so if I use two theres a lot  > more weted surface area and only about a foot deferance in draft. >  Inside Im thinking large V berth forward then wrap around couch  > with drop leaf table atached to compression post,small galley port  > small head starboard then a couple quarter berths with drop boards  > to use as sea births and no inboard engine, removeable water tank  > where engine would be. hope I can fit it in like that but dont know  > till I can get inside and start measureing things out. >  The mast, It will not be wood, we had a saying in the race  > club, "theres the ones that have broke and the ones that will   brake"   > as you can tell Im not a fan for wood mast, probably end up useing  > aluminum. I am open for any sugestions on the interior. > Well take care > Tom > |
9555|9555|2005-11-15 18:28:14|richytill|best pacific weather|When crossing the Pacific to Toga, NZ, etc. people around BC seem to go  via Mexico around September to winter over.  I understand the logic of  this.  If one wished wished to go straight across through Hawaii and  miss Mexico, what would be the best month to leave?  Any observations  would be appreciated.   rt|
9556|9198|2005-11-15 18:33:23|richytill|Re: Marinizing an engine|Henry, mast is up now.  Went out on the straight one snotty morning  to see how she faired with the rig up.  Took a few steep ones over  the bow--no problem.  The mast has a profound effect on dampening  roll.  The vessel also sits well on her lines.  Sails next.  rt      -- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Henri Naths" <c_hnaths@t...>  wrote:  > > Thanks  Richard , > H. >   ----- Original Message -----  >   From: richytill  >   To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com  >   Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2005 11:54 AM >   Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Marinizing an engine >  >  >   Henri, non turbo means less expense and less complicated.  I have  >   tried to keep thing simple--the turbo would be one more system to  >   maintain.  I need to check through the log book more carefully   but we   >   came from Pender Harbour to Gibsons Landing and Burrard bridge to  >   Long Bay Gambier on around 3.5 L per hour(@ 2100--2500 rpm) as   far as   >   I can tell.  I need to refine my sounding stick and average out   the   >   records more to give a more accurate consumption rate.  This is   with   >   a Campbell sailor prop' and that is better progress than the   previous   >   Michigan prop.  Speed varies according to conditions but is good   at   >   5.8 knts where the hull slips along easy. >  >   rt >       >  >  >  >   --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Henri Naths"   <c_hnaths@t...>   >   wrote: >   > >   > Hi Richard  >   > Nice to here from you concerning vw.( I am assuming a16d is   1600 cc   >   non turbo ) Do you have stats on per hr fuel consumption as per   rpm   >   range?  >   > Is there a reason you chose non turbo other than the   availability   >   factor? >   > Thanks   >   > H. >   >  >   >   ----- Original Message -----  >   >   From: richytill  >   >   To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com  >   >   Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2005 10:25 AM >   >   Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Marinizing an engine >   >  >   >  >   >   Engine folks,  >   >  >   >  >   >   Here is a cost breakdown, by the year, on installing a VW 16D  >   engine  >   >   with a Borg Warner 71c transmission.  Year 1: $1679.03; year   2:   >   >   $2402.80; year 3: $1497.50; year 4: $1007.27--this should   total   >   >   $6586.60.  This includes all the anti freeze; oil coolers;   hoses;   >   >   clamps; 2 racor fuel filters; prop and spare prop; gaskets;  >   timing  >   >   belt; glow plugs; making the flywheel assy'; external   filters;   >   >   exhhaust system and every little nut, bolt, gasket, morse   control   >   >   cable, with prop shaft, stuffing box etc. >   >  >   >   I have been motoring for around 70 hours now and am pleased   with   >   the  >   >   system--performance is as predicted from calculations (7.2   knts   >   @3200  >   >   rpm),parts are affordable and easy to come by.  The engine is  >   limited  >   >   to 3300 rpm for peak volumetric efficiency.  Manifold is   cooled   >   by  >   >   bilge blower fan exiting above underwater exhaust anti-siphon  >   loop.   >   >   Starter must be protected with an aluminum heat shield.  rt >   >  >   >  >   >  >   >  >   >  >   >  >   >   --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "T & D CAIN"   <thcain@o...>   >   wrote: >   >   > >   >   > Gord, Unfortunately the people who were responsible for  >   >   investigating or >   >   > removing the engine from the boat damaged the Bowman   combination  >   >   > heatexchanger/manifold/head tank, which is a model VW150   and is   >   >   allegedly >   >   > still available new as are all the parts. >   >   > The damage is to both ends of the cast alloy section which  >   houses  >   >   the tube >   >   > stack. About 6 tubes in the stack have been indented as a  >   result.  >   >   Number one >   >   > cylinder exhaust stub flange was also damaged. I suppose   the   >   >   casting could >   >   > be repaired, but those tubes would be a pain to replace or   fix   >   as  >   >   they are >   >   > silver brazed to the header ends of the stack. As you   probably   >   >   know, the >   >   > neoprene end caps need to fit and seal both the alloy ends   and   >   the  >   >   tube >   >   > stack headers. >   >   > I can take some photos of the parts if required. >   >   > This model heat exchanger is identical to mine. >   >   > I had a look in the top of the camshaft case and the damn   thing   >   >   looked like >   >   > new! Apparently the engine was seized (#3 cylinder) and a  >   A$12000  >   >   Yanmar was >   >   > installed by the new owner. >   >   > I stripped most easily removable bits including the damper  >   drive  >   >   which >   >   > looked new --- I should have just taken the whole engine as   it   >   was  >   >   headed >   >   > for the tip. >   >   > Terry >   >   > -----Original Message----- >   >   > From: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com  >   >   [mailto:origamiboats@yahoogroups.com] On >   >   > Behalf Of gschnell >   >   > Sent: Monday, 24 October 2005 03:06 >   >   > To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com >   >   > Subject: Re: [origamiboats] Marinizing an engine >   >   > >   >  >   >  >   >  >   >  >   >  >   >  >   >  >   >   To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com >   >   To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats- >   unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com  >   >   Yahoo! Groups Links >   >  >   >  >   >  >   >     >   >  >   >  >   >  >   > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >   > >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >   To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com >   To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-  unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com   >   Yahoo! Groups Links >  >  >  >     >  >  >  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > |
9557|9555|2005-11-15 19:47:29|brentswain38|Re: best pacific weather|If you go far enough west, in June,or anytime during the northern  summer, you can pass west of the Mexican hurricane season, which  sometimes sends hurricanes as far west as Hawaii.They tend to turn  north and die around Hawaii. You only have to get to New Zealand by  November so that gives you a lot of cruising time. I'd sail south till  the water warms, but not south of 30 degrees north to avoid the  hurricanes. Then I'd sail west until around the Marshall Islands , then  try to hold onto my easting while sailing more or less due south to  about 20 south, then get on the longitude of New Zealand so as to not  have too much headwind when entering the westerlies . Lately people  have ben getting a lot of southerlies and beating the last bit to New  Zealand.  The last time I was in Tonga, in November 2002 , people who headed for  New Zealand, to escape the heat ,had succeeded beyond their wildest  dreams. It was 6 degres celcius in the Bay of Islands . They started  complaining about the cold around Minerva Reef. Brent   --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "richytill" <tillrc@h...> wrote: > > When crossing the Pacific to Toga, NZ, etc. people around BC seem to  go  > via Mexico around September to winter over.  I understand the logic  of  > this.  If one wished wished to go straight across through Hawaii and  > miss Mexico, what would be the best month to leave?  Any observations  > would be appreciated.   rt > |
9558|9383|2005-11-15 19:56:26|tom|Re: Swain 26|Hello Josh  Im located about 3-1/2 hours S.E of the bay area little town called Yettem  . are you in the bay area?  cause thats a great place to sail. Ive trailerd  up the several times and its awsom compared to the lakes around here. Tom  ----- Original Message -----  From: "josh Oen" <josh_894@...> To: <origamiboats@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2005 8:42 AM Subject: Re: [origamiboats] Swain 26   > Thanks...I did not realize there was an another > "Origami" site and was able to view the pictures after > I found it. > Your Hull shape looks like its coming along nicely. > Where are you building the boat, is it in the Bay > area? > > Josh > > --- tom <tazmann@...> wrote: > >> Sorry bout that Josh I should have put link in >> posting >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats2 >> photos file tom's BS 26 >> Tom >> ----- Original Message -----  >> From: "josh Oen" <josh_894@...> >> To: <origamiboats@yahoogroups.com> >> Sent: Monday, November 14, 2005 9:38 PM >> Subject: Re: [origamiboats] Swain 26 >> >> >> > Tom >> > >> > Is the pictures you posted available for all to >> view? >> > if so I am not sure where its located at in the >> > "Origami site" >> > >> > Please explain as I am a new member to the group. >> > Thanks >> > Josh >> > >> > --- tazmannusa <tazmann@...> wrote: >> > >> >> Hello Again >> >>  I managed to get the transom in today and it >> made a >> >> big deferance >> >> on the hull shape and looks. I copyed the pattern >> >> from the plans as >> >> good as I could and I think it turned out nice. I >> >> can see why the >> >> trend is for more of a teardrop shape a lot >> easyer >> >> to put in but you >> >> would have the transom deeper in the water. mine >> >> should be just a >> >> little above the actual waterline if I balance it >> >> rite. Brent shows >> >> in his book the staps atached to the bottom to >> hold >> >> the jack to push >> >> up the center for the transom and it work pretty >> >> good but I had to >> >> use 3 of them across the bottom to get it to >> shape. >> >> I posted a few >> >> more pictures let me know what you think. >> >>  Old Ben >> >>  You were asking about keels and interior and I'm >> >> not 100% desided >> >> yet, I am thinking about a single keel, on the 26 >> >> the keels are the >> >> same size wheather you use one or two, so if I >> use >> >> two theres a lot >> >> more weted surface area and only about a foot >> >> deferance in draft. >> >>  Inside Im thinking large V berth forward then >> wrap >> >> around couch >> >> with drop leaf table atached to compression >> >> post,small galley port >> >> small head starboard then a couple quarter berths >> >> with drop boards >> >> to use as sea births and no inboard engine, >> >> removeable water tank >> >> where engine would be. hope I can fit it in like >> >> that but dont know >> >> till I can get inside and start measureing things >> >> out. >> >>  The mast, It will not be wood, we had a saying >> in >> >> the race >> >> club, "theres the ones that have broke and the >> ones >> >> that will brake" >> >> as you can tell Im not a fan for wood mast, >> probably >> >> end up useing >> >> aluminum. I am open for any sugestions on the >> >> interior. >> >> Well take care >> >> Tom >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > __________________________________ >> > Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 >> > http://mail.yahoo.com >> > >> > >> > >> > To Post a message, send it to: >> origamiboats@yahoogroups.com >> > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: >> > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com >> > Yahoo! Groups Links >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> >> > > > > > > __________________________________ > Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 > http://mail.yahoo.com > > > > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:  > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > |
9559|9536|2005-11-15 21:04:58|jfpacuas|Re: Steel cutting skillsaw|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "kendall" <merc2dogs@h...> wrote:  >    My blade is a Morse. I think it is advertised as being able to cut up  to 1/4" which I was able to do quite easily. I haven't found it to be  particularly loud, but I'm pretty religious about ear protection. It  definately rings more than when cutting wood!  I was told that such blades are great for notching pipe to make  angles at pipe joints. I haven't figured out a jig to do this yet.  The idea is to make to cuts at the end of the pipe so it comes to a  point (or saddle, depending on one's point of view) and then the  other pipe fits in the saddle. Haven't tried it yet, but I met a  fellow a couple weeks back who did all his rails this way (he used a  similar type blade on a chop saw).   Not sure how most of you are building rails (and joining your  verticals to horizontals), but I'd like to hear how folks are doing  it.  Cheers     > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "brentswain38" > <brentswain38@h...> wrote: > > > > I just received a princess Auto catalogue with the steel cutting  > > carbide tipped blade skillsaw in it for $200. They say it will   cut up   > > to 9/32 steel plate. Has anybody tried one yet? $200 is far less   than   > > the cost of gas, and would make cleaner, distortion free cuts if   it   > > works. > > Brent > > >  >  >  the saws that are made for steel cutting are manufactured to meet > osha regs, so the blade is almost completely enclosed, and has a   chip  > catcher on it, very good and safe saws, there is one called an > evolution that I've used extensively and liked it will cut steel as > well as regular saws cut wood, albeit slower. >  >   there are a few companies that make steel cutter blades fr   standard  > skill saws, the only one I've used is made by Morse, but it's a   great  > blade. Drawbacks are that the metal is HOT when it comes out, and it > goes averywhere just like sawdust does, wear eye protection, and be > aware of bystanders.  >   >  If you can pick up an old porter cable saw (the BEST skill saw made > in my opinion, as long as the blades on the correct side!) they have > the dump tube that controls where the dust goes, cleanest saw you'll > ever use place a winndow screen bag over the tube and it will catch > the dust very well and make it easy to clean up afterwards (never > leave the dust around, it'll rust stain stainless steel in an > afternoon. (magnet on a stick placed in a plastic bag, pick up the > shavings, then turn the bag inside out to dump it, all the chips   stay  > in the bag) >  >  >  Used the evolution saw at work, and cut steel beams and plate with   it  > which were thicker than the 'max' by about 50%, saw never whined   about it.  >  >  > Ken > |
9560|9505|2005-11-15 21:33:45|Puck III|Taylors Heater with serpentin for FREE hot waterRe: Ben's heater in|Hi Ted , I found the old Taylors leaflet [ sory in french ] with the serpentin for free hot water when the stove is on :-) I posted the files under Ben's Stuff in the Files of Origamiboats2 I wonder if it's different from the one you have ? That's excellent equipment. I wonder if the rather thin mantel will not suffer to much from the sandblasting ?? on the other hand I know of several repairs done by simple " brasering ?? " sory I am not sure if its the correct english word ( type of welding used to weld steel bikechassis :-) a formed round piece above , I mean on the outside of the mantel. Taylor sure will recommend a new mantel but I know of emergency repairs that stayed in place for years .  Without some comfort fatigue comes faster , I have an 82 old mate that is still sailing , it keeps him young he says , I sure hope the same for all :-)  Enjoy the planning of your comforts :-)  Old Ben  --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "edward_stoneuk" <tedstone@g...>  wrote:  > > Old Ben, >  > When I checked my parafin (kerosene) heater I found it isn't a   Blakes   > at all but a Taylors.  It is a vertical roestvrij staal cylinder   with   > the exhaust pipe coming out of the top.  Inside at the bottom is a  > primus type pressure burner above which are several vertical   expanded   > metal cylinders that are heated by the burner.  We also have an old  > Taylors parafin oven and two burner stove.  They are fed from a   common   > pressurised tank. I was thinking of having the heater sand blasted   and   > painted with black high temperature paint so that it emits more   heat.   > Abemama is a usefull boat and the articles are very interesting.   > Built for comfort not for speed.  There is no harm in comfort. >  > Regards, >  > Ted > |
9561|9536|2005-11-15 23:44:42|kendall|Re: Steel cutting skillsaw|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "jfpacuas" <paulcotter@a...> wrote:  > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "kendall" <merc2dogs@h...> wrote: > > >  >  > My blade is a Morse. I think it is advertised as being able to cut up  > to 1/4" which I was able to do quite easily. I haven't found it to be  > particularly loud, but I'm pretty religious about ear protection. It  > definately rings more than when cutting wood! >  > I was told that such blades are great for notching pipe to make  > angles at pipe joints. I haven't figured out a jig to do this yet.  > The idea is to make to cuts at the end of the pipe so it comes to a  > point (or saddle, depending on one's point of view) and then the  > other pipe fits in the saddle. Haven't tried it yet, but I met a  > fellow a couple weeks back who did all his rails this way (he used a  > similar type blade on a chop saw).  >  > Not sure how most of you are building rails (and joining your  > verticals to horizontals), but I'd like to hear how folks are doing  > it. >  > Cheers >      I normally us a hole saw the same size as the tube I need to T into, makes for a nice clean joint, But it seems like cutting it with the steel saw would 'bevel' the edge so you could get better weld penetration, something you need a grinder for when using the hole saw, eliminate a step and you speed up the construction.    Yeah! the noise on the metal blades is crazy sometimes, on thinner steel I'd taken to putting a chunk of cardborad over the steel to dampen the noise with long cuts, then cut both steel and cardboard   The Trick with the metal blades is to keep the metal supported, if you let it start vibrating it'll eat the teeth on the saw, not such a problem with fractional steel, but when you get down to the gauge sized steel it matters   Ken.|
9562|9536|2005-11-16 01:40:03|Courtney Thomas|Re: Steel cutting skillsaw|I need to make a frame for a boat winter cover and have some 10'  bendable sections of 1/2" metal conduit on hand.  What would be the easiest way to form 8' arches over the boat ?  I doubt my ability to bend 7 parallel arches  and would like to avoid  trying to welding this thin metal.  How could I form up 2 45degree angles on each side ?                    _                   /  \     <---45deg                 /      \   <---45deg                  |        |        I tried to find some 45deg elbows but the only ones I could find were  $4/ea !  Appreciatively, Courtney    kendall wrote:   >--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "jfpacuas" <paulcotter@a...> wrote: >   > >>--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "kendall" <merc2dogs@h...> wrote: >>     >> >>My blade is a Morse. I think it is advertised as being able to cut up  >>to 1/4" which I was able to do quite easily. I haven't found it to be  >>particularly loud, but I'm pretty religious about ear protection. It  >>definately rings more than when cutting wood! >> >>I was told that such blades are great for notching pipe to make  >>angles at pipe joints. I haven't figured out a jig to do this yet.  >>The idea is to make to cuts at the end of the pipe so it comes to a  >>point (or saddle, depending on one's point of view) and then the  >>other pipe fits in the saddle. Haven't tried it yet, but I met a  >>fellow a couple weeks back who did all his rails this way (he used a  >>similar type blade on a chop saw).  >> >>Not sure how most of you are building rails (and joining your  >>verticals to horizontals), but I'd like to hear how folks are doing  >>it. >> >>Cheers >> >>     >> > > > I normally us a hole saw the same size as the tube I need to T into, >makes for a nice clean joint, But it seems like cutting it with the >steel saw would 'bevel' the edge so you could get better weld >penetration, something you need a grinder for when using the hole saw, >eliminate a step and you speed up the construction. > >  Yeah! the noise on the metal blades is crazy sometimes, on thinner >steel I'd taken to putting a chunk of cardborad over the steel to >dampen the noise with long cuts, then cut both steel and cardboard > > The Trick with the metal blades is to keep the metal supported, if >you let it start vibrating it'll eat the teeth on the saw, not such a >problem with fractional steel, but when you get down to the gauge >sized steel it matters  > >Ken. > > > > > > >To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com >To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com  >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > >  > > > >   > |
9563|9536|2005-11-16 01:48:36|Jerry Scovel|Re: Steel cutting skillsaw|Cut rebar in 1' pieces, bend them to the angle you need and insert them into the conduit.    on 11/16/05 12:41 AM, Courtney Thomas at ccthomas@... wrote:  I need to make a frame for a boat winter cover and have some 10' bendable sections of 1/2" metal conduit on hand.  What would be the easiest way to form 8' arches over the boat ?  I doubt my ability to bend 7 parallel arches  and would like to avoid trying to welding this thin metal.  How could I form up 2 45degree angles on each side ?                   _                  /  \     <---45deg                /      \   <---45deg               |        | I tried to find some 45deg elbows but the only ones I could find were $4/ea !  Appreciatively, Courtney    kendall wrote:   >--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "jfpacuas" <paulcotter@a...> wrote: >   > >>--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "kendall" <merc2dogs@h...> wrote: >>     >> >>My blade is a Morse. I think it is advertised as being able to cut up >>to 1/4" which I was able to do quite easily. I haven't found it to be >>particularly loud, but I'm pretty religious about ear protection. It >>definately rings more than when cutting wood! >> >>I was told that such blades are great for notching pipe to make >>angles at pipe joints. I haven't figured out a jig to do this yet. >>The idea is to make to cuts at the end of the pipe so it comes to a >>point (or saddle, depending on one's point of view) and then the >>other pipe fits in the saddle. Haven't tried it yet, but I met a >>fellow a couple weeks back who did all his rails this way (he used a >>similar type blade on a chop saw). >> >>Not sure how most of you are building rails (and joining your >>verticals to horizontals), but I'd like to hear how folks are doing >>it. >> >>Cheers >> >>     >> > > > I normally us a hole saw the same size as the tube I need to T into, >makes for a nice clean joint, But it seems like cutting it with the >steel saw would 'bevel' the edge so you could get better weld >penetration, something you need a grinder for when using the hole saw, >eliminate a step and you speed up the construction. > >  Yeah! the noise on the metal blades is crazy sometimes, on thinner >steel I'd taken to putting a chunk of cardborad over the steel to >dampen the noise with long cuts, then cut both steel and cardboard > > The Trick with the metal blades is to keep the metal supported, if >you let it start vibrating it'll eat the teeth on the saw, not such a >problem with fractional steel, but when you get down to the gauge >sized steel it matters > >Ken. > > > > > > >To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com >To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:  origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com  >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > >  > > > >   >     To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com      YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS   Visit your group "origamiboats <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats> " on the web.     To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:  origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <mailto:origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>    Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]|
9564|9551|2005-11-16 02:46:14|Gerd|Re: New Member question about  Origami  technique for Cats|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "josh_894" <josh_894@y...>  wrote:  Hi Josh - sure, you can build all sorts of hulls. I have done some  experimental modelling and drawing on slender multihull-shapes, and  works fine, just like for monos. You can even do asymetric hulls by  using different templates and you could build the bridge and cabins  from CAD templates as well. Depending on the hullshape, one could  also research for different pattern-types, for example with the  darts cut from the ends and so on.  The real question is what type of multi you want to build, size,  weight, material... what do yo have in mind?  As an alternative, there is Kelsall's KISS method, with sandwich  panels laminated on flat tables before being bend and assembled.  Just don't ask for steel ;-)   Gerd  The Yago Project at http://www.justmueller.com/boats/   > Can this process be adapted to a multihull construction such as a  > catamaran , and I'm not quite sure if you can apply the Origami  > technique for making long slender hull such as those required for   a   > catamaran. |
9565|9505|2005-11-16 05:28:15|edward_stoneuk|Taylors Heater with serpentin for FREE hot waterRe: Ben's heater in|Hi Old Ben,  Thanks for posting the info.  My Taylors heater is an older one than  that The plate says (from memory) Taylors, Maldon, Essex. Model  number 065.  Is the one that you have cylindrical inside the  perforated polygonal heat shield? I think the cylindrical ones may  have had a heat shield added on later models.  The idea shown in the  Taylors manual that you posted of having a heat exchanger and a  radiator in another cabin interested me.  My wife and I are partial  to a dry warm bed, which is difficult to arrange on a small boat.   Hot water pipes running under the bed would be very useful.  I think the word you were looking for is brazing, using an  oxy/acetylene torch, brass and a flux. The thing with getting the best out of a heating system is to use as  much heat as one can without lowering the exhaust temperature below  its dew point so that condensate runs back down the exhaust flue.   Do you know if Taylors have guidelines as to the maximum length of  exhaust flue for their heaters?  To get our heater low in the cabin  I will have to extend the flue and I am wondering if there is a  maximum flue length.  Regards, Ted|
9566|9505|2005-11-16 08:18:45|Puck III|Taylors Heater with serpentin for FREE hot waterRe: Ben's heater in|Hi Ted , good the info is usefull. I use a model that's a bit different cause I use dieseloil as fuel , same system , same measurements but a dripsystem , drop by drop realy cause counting the drops per minute is how one regulates the quantity of oildrops to be burned. I think that is the reason these stoves work well under heel when underway , cause the drop becomes a gas due to the heat in the rounded receptionplate.  I think the serpentinsystem was developed by the French Taylor importer and I wonder if Taylor proposed it in the UK ?  I saw a similar system in Denmark where Duckhunters install it on the long and narrow square ended duckboats they use [quit similar to Coleman's Scanoe but equiped with windshield and insulated tent and forwardfacing wheelsteering , 9.9hp is all they need to go fast and economical ] during the huntingseason in autum and winter. There the serpentin is used to warm small radiators in line to keep them warm on their extented trips ,ofthen up to 50 miles and back , they cover the distance , sleep and cook onboard , hunt go back but ofthen stay another day and night and do the return trip when it suites them [ all that in near freezing temperatures as a hobby or for the extra income cause sure those duck are sold in the foodchain ]  Thanks for the brazing translation :-)  If you study your insulation and heating system well , you and your  wife will be extreemly happy on a dry and warm , may I say a happy boat cause thats your objective for sure.  Even in cold weather I always enjoy to live on my boat , the equipment race never stops but I sure am extreemly happy for now , when I am a marina guest always stay longer and leave happy to , I have a better social live on the boat than at home :-)  regards Old Ben  --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "edward_stoneuk" <tedstone@g...>  wrote:  > > Hi Old Ben, >  > Thanks for posting the info.  My Taylors heater is an older one   than   > that The plate says (from memory) Taylors, Maldon, Essex. Model  > number 065.  Is the one that you have cylindrical inside the  > perforated polygonal heat shield? I think the cylindrical ones may  > have had a heat shield added on later models.  The idea shown in   the   > Taylors manual that you posted of having a heat exchanger and a  > radiator in another cabin interested me.  My wife and I are partial  > to a dry warm bed, which is difficult to arrange on a small boat.   > Hot water pipes running under the bed would be very useful. >  > I think the word you were looking for is brazing, using an  > oxy/acetylene torch, brass and a flux. > The thing with getting the best out of a heating system is to use   as   > much heat as one can without lowering the exhaust temperature below  > its dew point so that condensate runs back down the exhaust flue.   > Do you know if Taylors have guidelines as to the maximum length of  > exhaust flue for their heaters?  To get our heater low in the cabin  > I will have to extend the flue and I am wondering if there is a  > maximum flue length. >  > Regards, > Ted > |
9567|9536|2005-11-16 09:12:19|tom|Re: Steel cutting skillsaw|For fishmouthing the ends of pipe I use an attachment in my drill press for  the smaller tubeing ,IE 1-1/2" or smaller anything bigger my 1 horse drill  press just doesnt have the power. Out on the job  I just use my grinder on  the small stuff  and on the bigger stuff 1-1/2" and bigger I just use my  torch, I have used some fancy notchers in the past and they worked the best  but I couldnt see spending $2000 on something Im not going to use every day Tom  ----- Original Message -----  From: "jfpacuas" <paulcotter@...> To: <origamiboats@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2005 6:04 PM Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Steel cutting skillsaw   > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "kendall" <merc2dogs@h...> wrote: >> > > > My blade is a Morse. I think it is advertised as being able to cut up > to 1/4" which I was able to do quite easily. I haven't found it to be > particularly loud, but I'm pretty religious about ear protection. It > definately rings more than when cutting wood! > > I was told that such blades are great for notching pipe to make > angles at pipe joints. I haven't figured out a jig to do this yet. > The idea is to make to cuts at the end of the pipe so it comes to a > point (or saddle, depending on one's point of view) and then the > other pipe fits in the saddle. Haven't tried it yet, but I met a > fellow a couple weeks back who did all his rails this way (he used a > similar type blade on a chop saw). > > Not sure how most of you are building rails (and joining your > verticals to horizontals), but I'd like to hear how folks are doing > it. > > > > > |
9568|9551|2005-11-16 10:13:22|josh Oen|Re: New Member question about  Origami  technique for Cats|Gerd  I was thinking something in the neighborhood of a 40 footer out of Aluminum.  I am confident about the bridgedeck and the cabin being made of Al. But was concerned perhaps that a long slender hull such as that of a catamaran will not be as easy to fold up as a beamier monohull.  My concern was that a 40 foot long hull with a 6 foot beam would be difficult to form out of Al (1/4" - 6.35mm). And that the material would be worked beyond it "elastic" state and perhaps hard to control the location of radius that will be created as the material is being folded. Most of the boat I have seen made with the Origami method have a lenght to width ratio of around 3.3 to 1 or around that ratio. The hull for a catamaran would have a ratio of almost twice  that of a mono (6:1).   your feed back greatly appreciated.  Thanks Josh  I have seen the KSS method, but I think using Aluminum with the  Origami technique is an efficient way to create a hull.    --- Gerd <yago@...> wrote:   > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "josh_894" > <josh_894@y...>  > wrote: >  > Hi Josh - sure, you can build all sorts of hulls. I > have done some  > experimental modelling and drawing on slender > multihull-shapes, and  > works fine, just like for monos. You can even do > asymetric hulls by  > using different templates and you could build the > bridge and cabins  > from CAD templates as well. Depending on the > hullshape, one could  > also research for different pattern-types, for > example with the  > darts cut from the ends and so on. >  > The real question is what type of multi you want to > build, size,  > weight, material... what do yo have in mind? >  > As an alternative, there is Kelsall's KISS method, > with sandwich  > panels laminated on flat tables before being bend > and assembled. >  > Just don't ask for steel ;-)  >  > Gerd >  > The Yago Project at > http://www.justmueller.com/boats/ >  > > Can this process be adapted to a multihull > construction such as a  > > catamaran , and I'm not quite sure if you can > apply the Origami  > > technique for making long slender hull such as > those required for  > a  > > catamaran.   >  >  >  >  >     __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around  http://mail.yahoo.com|
9569|9551|2005-11-16 11:00:45|Gerd|Re: New Member question about  Origami  technique for Cats|Josh - having thought it over, although it is possible, I would now  say that origami might be interesting for smaller, demountable open  platform type cats, because then basically you would build two thin  hulls and then just join them with beams. With proper templates and  modelling that should work. But for bigger bridgedeck cats it think it's less obvious, because  they do require quite a bit of structure anyway, and even once you  would have 2 invidividual hulls there is still a lot of structural  work and alignement to be done.. and you would probably be better  off building jig and frames for both decks and the bridge and then  plank it the traditional hard-chine way.  I think I would go for classic hardchine or - if looks are  important - radius chine hulls.  Do you already have any particular boat in mind?  Gerd  The Yago project at http://www.justmueller.com/boats/  --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, josh Oen <josh_894@y...> wrote: > > Gerd >  > I was thinking something in the neighborhood of a 40 > footer out of Aluminum.  I am confident about the > bridgedeck and the cabin being made of Al. But was > concerned perhaps that a long slender hull such as > that of a catamaran will not be as easy to fold up as > a beamier monohull.  > My concern was that a 40 foot long hull with a 6 foot > beam would be difficult to form out of Al (1/4" - > 6.35mm). And that the material would be worked beyond > it "elastic" state and perhaps hard to control the > location of radius that will be created as the > material is being folded. > Most of the boat I have seen made with the Origami > method have a lenght to width ratio of around 3.3 to 1 > or around that ratio. The hull for a catamaran would > have a ratio of almost twice  that of a mono (6:1).  >  > your feed back greatly appreciated. >  > Thanks > Josh >  > I have seen the KSS method, but I think using Aluminum > with the  Origami technique is an efficient way to > create a hull. >  >  >  > --- Gerd <yago@j...> wrote: >  > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "josh_894" > > <josh_894@y...>  > > wrote: > >  > > Hi Josh - sure, you can build all sorts of hulls. I > > have done some  > > experimental modelling and drawing on slender > > multihull-shapes, and  > > works fine, just like for monos. You can even do > > asymetric hulls by  > > using different templates and you could build the > > bridge and cabins  > > from CAD templates as well. Depending on the > > hullshape, one could  > > also research for different pattern-types, for > > example with the  > > darts cut from the ends and so on. > >  > > The real question is what type of multi you want to > > build, size,  > > weight, material... what do yo have in mind? > >  > > As an alternative, there is Kelsall's KISS method, > > with sandwich  > > panels laminated on flat tables before being bend > > and assembled. > >  > > Just don't ask for steel ;-)  > >  > > Gerd > >  > > The Yago Project at > > http://www.justmueller.com/boats/ > >  > > > Can this process be adapted to a multihull > > construction such as a  > > > catamaran , and I'm not quite sure if you can > > apply the Origami  > > > technique for making long slender hull such as > > those required for  > > a  > > > catamaran.   > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  >  >  > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around  > http://mail.yahoo.com > |
9570|9536|2005-11-16 11:09:30|Bruce Hallman|Re: Steel cutting skillsaw|>  How could I form up 2 45degree angles on each side ?   Have you tried a conduit bending tool?  http://www.recycledrecumbent.com/P4240003.jpg|
9571|9551|2005-11-16 11:13:04|khooper_fboats|Re: New Member question about  Origami  technique for Cats|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, josh Oen <josh_894@y...> wrote:    > I was thinking something in the neighborhood of a 40 > footer out of Aluminum.  > My concern was that a 40 foot long hull with a 6 foot > beam would be difficult to form out of Al (1/4" - > 6.35mm). And that the material would be worked beyond > it "elastic" state   I don't know how it would bend, but that is going to make for an extraordinarily heavy sailing cat, isn't it? If we assume something like 3000 square feet of aluminum for a 40-foot catamaran (hulls, bridge and bulkheads alone, no stringers) and if 1/4" material is 3.5 lbs per square foot, you're over 10,000 pounds for the bare hull alone. That's a very heavy hull for a cat that size, is it not?|
9572|9551|2005-11-16 12:14:26|josh Oen|Re: New Member question about  Origami  technique for Cats|Gerd  Your right about structural loads that is imparted by the hulls. But I think with a tube style crossbeam one in front one in the back and an "I" beam type of structure at midship span, I think the tosional loads can be met.  There is issues as you mention with squarness between hulls,leveling and such, but I think with good templates, proper jigging and dimensional checks errors can be minimized. The big question is has anyone made thin, long, slender huls using the Origami technique. If I understand your respnse it sound like it can be done but perhaps no one has at this time (Origami style that is).  josh       --- Gerd <yago@...> wrote:   > Josh - having thought it over, although it is > possible, I would now  > say that origami might be interesting for smaller, > demountable open  > platform type cats, because then basically you would > build two thin  > hulls and then just join them with beams. With > proper templates and  > modelling that should work. > But for bigger bridgedeck cats it think it's less > obvious, because  > they do require quite a bit of structure anyway, and > even once you  > would have 2 invidividual hulls there is still a lot > of structural  > work and alignement to be done.. and you would > probably be better  > off building jig and frames for both decks and the > bridge and then  > plank it the traditional hard-chine way.  > I think I would go for classic hardchine or - if > looks are  > important - radius chine hulls.  > Do you already have any particular boat in mind? >  > Gerd >  > The Yago project at > http://www.justmueller.com/boats/ > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, josh Oen > <josh_894@y...> wrote: > > > > Gerd > >  > > I was thinking something in the neighborhood of a > 40 > > footer out of Aluminum.  I am confident about the > > bridgedeck and the cabin being made of Al. But was > > concerned perhaps that a long slender hull such as > > that of a catamaran will not be as easy to fold up > as > > a beamier monohull.  > > My concern was that a 40 foot long hull with a 6 > foot > > beam would be difficult to form out of Al (1/4" - > > 6.35mm). And that the material would be worked > beyond > > it "elastic" state and perhaps hard to control the > > location of radius that will be created as the > > material is being folded. > > Most of the boat I have seen made with the Origami > > method have a lenght to width ratio of around 3.3 > to 1 > > or around that ratio. The hull for a catamaran > would > > have a ratio of almost twice  that of a mono > (6:1).  > >  > > your feed back greatly appreciated. > >  > > Thanks > > Josh > >  > > I have seen the KSS method, but I think using > Aluminum > > with the  Origami technique is an efficient way to > > create a hull. > >  > >  > >  > > --- Gerd <yago@j...> wrote: > >  > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "josh_894" > > > <josh_894@y...>  > > > wrote: > > >  > > > Hi Josh - sure, you can build all sorts of > hulls. I > > > have done some  > > > experimental modelling and drawing on slender > > > multihull-shapes, and  > > > works fine, just like for monos. You can even do > > > asymetric hulls by  > > > using different templates and you could build > the > > > bridge and cabins  > > > from CAD templates as well. Depending on the > > > hullshape, one could  > > > also research for different pattern-types, for > > > example with the  > > > darts cut from the ends and so on. > > >  > > > The real question is what type of multi you want > to > > > build, size,  > > > weight, material... what do yo have in mind? > > >  > > > As an alternative, there is Kelsall's KISS > method, > > > with sandwich  > > > panels laminated on flat tables before being > bend > > > and assembled. > > >  > > > Just don't ask for steel ;-)  > > >  > > > Gerd > > >  > > > The Yago Project at > > > http://www.justmueller.com/boats/ > > >  > > > > Can this process be adapted to a multihull > > > construction such as a  > > > > catamaran , and I'm not quite sure if you can > > > apply the Origami  > > > > technique for making long slender hull such as > > > those required for  > > > a  > > > > catamaran.   > > >  > > >  > > >  > > >  > > >  > >  > >  > > __________________________________________________ > > Do You Yahoo!? > > Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam > protection around  > > http://mail.yahoo.com > > >  >  >  >  >     	 		  __________________________________  Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005  http://mail.yahoo.com|
9573|9551|2005-11-16 12:29:05|josh Oen|Re: New Member question about  Origami  technique for Cats|You're correct if the whole thing is made of 1/4 plate. But I was thinking only for the hulls. The crossbeams can a tube (3/16 wall..6inch dia?? for front and stern and perhaps a truss type construction for midship span, similar to roof type truss that is used on building. I do not even know if 1/4 inch for the hulls is an overkill (perhaps 3/16 would be better), because this whole concept is still an idea floating in my head about how to construct a catamaran.  josh   --- khooper_fboats <bighouse@...> wrote:   > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, josh Oen > <josh_894@y...> wrote: >   > > I was thinking something in the neighborhood of a > 40 > > footer out of Aluminum. >  > > My concern was that a 40 foot long hull with a 6 > foot > > beam would be difficult to form out of Al (1/4" - > > 6.35mm). And that the material would be worked > beyond > > it "elastic" state >  > I don't know how it would bend, but that is going to > make for an > extraordinarily heavy sailing cat, isn't it? If we > assume something > like 3000 square feet of aluminum for a 40-foot > catamaran (hulls, > bridge and bulkheads alone, no stringers) and if > 1/4" material is 3.5 > lbs per square foot, you're over 10,000 pounds for > the bare hull > alone. That's a very heavy hull for a cat that size, > is it not? >  >  >  >     		  __________________________________  Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click. http://farechase.yahoo.com|
9574|9551|2005-11-16 13:41:24|khooper_fboats|Re: New Member question about  Origami  technique for Cats|Peter Kerr of Australia was drawing a 40' alloy cat, that is the only aluminum cat I know of below 50'. I can't find his page right now. I believe he was using 4mm 5086 for the hulls and 3mm for the superstructure. Construction was conventional. I would want a lot of reassuring before I took a thing like that offshore but maybe it was quite strong, I dunno.  Anyway that is what he had to do to get it light enough so it wasn't a danger to itself. =^) An origami one would necessarily be heavier.  An origami power cat, now, that might work okay.|
9575|9555|2005-11-16 14:10:05|richytill|Re: best pacific weather|Brent, thanks--that helps build the picture.  A guy just tied up here back from Mexico via Hawaii and his  observations seem to fit with what you are saying.  He says they got  beaten up consistently from Mexico to Hawaii and had a pleasant  cruise back from there to Gibsons Landing.  I was wondering about  going up to the Queen Charlottes at the end of June and heading  straight down to Hawaii.  Just trying to build a bigger picture and  this all helps.  Thanks again, rt    --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "brentswain38"  <brentswain38@h...> wrote:  > > If you go far enough west, in June,or anytime during the northern  > summer, you can pass west of the Mexican hurricane season, which  > sometimes sends hurricanes as far west as Hawaii.They tend to turn  > north and die around Hawaii. You only have to get to New Zealand by  > November so that gives you a lot of cruising time. I'd sail south   till   > the water warms, but not south of 30 degrees north to avoid the  > hurricanes. Then I'd sail west until around the Marshall Islands ,   then   > try to hold onto my easting while sailing more or less due south to  > about 20 south, then get on the longitude of New Zealand so as to   not   > have too much headwind when entering the westerlies . Lately people  > have ben getting a lot of southerlies and beating the last bit to   New   > Zealand. >  The last time I was in Tonga, in November 2002 , people who headed   for   > New Zealand, to escape the heat ,had succeeded beyond their wildest  > dreams. It was 6 degres celcius in the Bay of Islands . They   started   > complaining about the cold around Minerva Reef. > Brent >  > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "richytill" <tillrc@h...>   wrote:  > > > > When crossing the Pacific to Toga, NZ, etc. people around BC seem   to   > go  > > via Mexico around September to winter over.  I understand the   logic   > of  > > this.  If one wished wished to go straight across through Hawaii   and   > > miss Mexico, what would be the best month to leave?  Any   observations   > > would be appreciated.   rt > > > |
9576|9551|2005-11-16 14:50:31|Gerd|Re: New Member question about  Origami  technique for Cats|Josh, scantling an oceangoing multihulls is a complex thing, full of  traps you can fall in. Not only because of the peak loads but because  of long term fatigue. Because of the weight penalties on multies,  overscantling is clearly not an option.  Yes, I am sure you can do the hulls in origami, but you should not  start from there... first you would ned to define the boat as such,  volumes, loads, displacement and so on. For that, teh easiest approach  is to start from an existing boat. For example you could take the  overall concept of a privilege or any other cruising cat in any  material, grp, ply, whatever.  Once you have something that fits your requirements, you look at the  displacement announced. For crusing multihulls, there is usually not a  very big difference between the different construction methods. Then you add up your educated guesses on all the stuff you put infrom  rig to furniture to water and diesel and so on (and which is  independant of the hull-material)  Then you do some basic overall calculations to get a relationship  between the mull-material'weight by estimating the total surface and  playing around with different plating and structure scnatling to  arrive a the weight of a shell.   This should be in about the same range as the production cat you  choose. There are alloy cats, and there ismno reason why this should  not be feasible, especially above 40', unless you have really  something very personal in mind.  Only AFTER that should you choose your assembly method.   Origami as such does not make a weight difference. the difference in  weight only apappears when you decide wether you go with thicker  plating and less structure or vice cersa - but both can be origamied ;- )  Gerd  --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, josh Oen <josh_894@y...> wrote: > > You're correct if the whole thing is made of 1/4 > plate. But I was thinking only for the hulls. The > crossbeams can a tube (3/16 wall..6inch dia?? for > front and stern and perhaps a truss type construction > for midship span, similar to roof type truss that is > used on building. > I do not even know if 1/4 inch for the hulls is an > overkill (perhaps 3/16 would be better), because this > whole concept is still an idea floating in my head > about how to construct a catamaran. |
9577|9555|2005-11-16 14:54:26|brentswain38|Re: best pacific weather|You could do that. The distance from the Charlottes to Hawaii isn't  any greater. Just looking at the globe, you could pass about 200  miles west of Hawaii, then south and this would miss the  hurricanes.That way you could save a lot of easting, usefull further  south. Some form about 1,000 miles ese of Hawaii, but they rarely go  much west of Hawaii before turning north and weakening .  The trades tend to be ENE until the doldrums between 10 and 12  north. Then they tend to be strong SE, becomming east at the equator,  then northeast. They sometimes turn back to SE further south . Brent    --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "richytill" <tillrc@h...> wrote: > > Brent, thanks--that helps build the picture. >  > A guy just tied up here back from Mexico via Hawaii and his  > observations seem to fit with what you are saying.  He says they  got  > beaten up consistently from Mexico to Hawaii and had a pleasant  > cruise back from there to Gibsons Landing.  I was wondering about  > going up to the Queen Charlottes at the end of June and heading  > straight down to Hawaii.  Just trying to build a bigger picture and  > this all helps.  Thanks again, rt  >  >  > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "brentswain38"  > <brentswain38@h...> wrote: > > > > If you go far enough west, in June,or anytime during the northern  > > summer, you can pass west of the Mexican hurricane season, which  > > sometimes sends hurricanes as far west as Hawaii.They tend to  turn  > > north and die around Hawaii. You only have to get to New Zealand  by  > > November so that gives you a lot of cruising time. I'd sail south  > till  > > the water warms, but not south of 30 degrees north to avoid the  > > hurricanes. Then I'd sail west until around the Marshall  Islands ,  > then  > > try to hold onto my easting while sailing more or less due south  to  > > about 20 south, then get on the longitude of New Zealand so as to  > not  > > have too much headwind when entering the westerlies . Lately  people  > > have ben getting a lot of southerlies and beating the last bit to  > New  > > Zealand. > >  The last time I was in Tonga, in November 2002 , people who  headed  > for  > > New Zealand, to escape the heat ,had succeeded beyond their  wildest  > > dreams. It was 6 degres celcius in the Bay of Islands . They  > started  > > complaining about the cold around Minerva Reef. > > Brent > >  > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "richytill" <tillrc@h...>  > wrote: > > > > > > When crossing the Pacific to Toga, NZ, etc. people around BC  seem  > to  > > go  > > > via Mexico around September to winter over.  I understand the  > logic  > > of  > > > this.  If one wished wished to go straight across through  Hawaii  > and  > > > miss Mexico, what would be the best month to leave?  Any  > observations  > > > would be appreciated.   rt > > > > > > |
9578|9551|2005-11-16 15:54:58|josh Oen|Re: New Member question about  Origami  technique for Cats|Gerd  I fully agree with your comments, as multihull is a complex structure to analyze and it would be foolish to try to re-invent the wheel when there are  plans available from reputable Naval architect for catamaran constructed out of  FG / Tortured Ply /Aluminum etc. but none that I have come across using the Origami technique for hull construction.  It just seems to me that a this method would accelerate the hull portion significantly, as the fairing of the hull becomes a minor issue (I think), and welding is more common skill then fber glassing. If I decided to do such a construction I would most likely buy the plans that utilize plywood (such as Kurt Hughes Designs) and convert it to Aluminum via Origami style. There seems to be an abundance of plans out there using resins over foam and plywood. But neither of them appeal to me even though it quite common and proven. Overall I think Aluminum is a better material to use over plywood.  In a nut shell I'm an advocate of this construction method and fascinated by the simplicity, and just wanted to find out if any of the members has done such a project. Hence the question posted by me.  josh        --- Gerd <yago@...> wrote:   > Josh, scantling an oceangoing multihulls is a > complex thing, full of  > traps you can fall in. Not only because of the peak > loads but because  > of long term fatigue. Because of the weight > penalties on multies,  > overscantling is clearly not an option. >  > Yes, I am sure you can do the hulls in origami, but > you should not  > start from there... first you would ned to define > the boat as such,  > volumes, loads, displacement and so on. For that, > teh easiest approach  > is to start from an existing boat. For example you > could take the  > overall concept of a privilege or any other cruising > cat in any  > material, grp, ply, whatever. >  > Once you have something that fits your requirements, > you look at the  > displacement announced. For crusing multihulls, > there is usually not a  > very big difference between the different > construction methods. > Then you add up your educated guesses on all the > stuff you put infrom  > rig to furniture to water and diesel and so on (and > which is  > independant of the hull-material) >  > Then you do some basic overall calculations to get a > relationship  > between the mull-material'weight by estimating the > total surface and  > playing around with different plating and structure > scnatling to  > arrive a the weight of a shell.  >  > This should be in about the same range as the > production cat you  > choose. There are alloy cats, and there ismno reason > why this should  > not be feasible, especially above 40', unless you > have really  > something very personal in mind. >  > Only AFTER that should you choose your assembly > method.  >  > Origami as such does not make a weight difference. > the difference in  > weight only apappears when you decide wether you go > with thicker  > plating and less structure or vice cersa - but both > can be origamied ;- > ) >  > Gerd > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, josh Oen > <josh_894@y...> wrote: > > > > You're correct if the whole thing is made of 1/4 > > plate. But I was thinking only for the hulls. The > > crossbeams can a tube (3/16 wall..6inch dia?? for > > front and stern and perhaps a truss type > construction > > for midship span, similar to roof type truss that > is > > used on building. > > I do not even know if 1/4 inch for the hulls is an > > overkill (perhaps 3/16 would be better), because > this > > whole concept is still an idea floating in my head > > about how to construct a catamaran. >  >  >  >     	 		  __________________________________  Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005  http://mail.yahoo.com|
9579|9551|2005-11-16 16:05:06|Gerd|Re: New Member question about  Origami  technique for Cats|I see... no way to hold you back..in that case - want us to do some  research on that togehter? ;-) send me a mail with your email and we  have a look? Gerd   se--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, josh Oen <josh_894@y...>  wrote:  > > Gerd >  > I fully agree with your comments, as multihull is a > complex structure to analyze and it would be foolish > to try to re-invent the wheel when there are  plans > available from reputable Naval architect for catamaran > constructed out of  FG / Tortured Ply /Aluminum etc. > but none that I have come across using the Origami > technique for hull construction.  > It just seems to me that a this method would > accelerate the hull portion significantly, as the > fairing of the hull becomes a minor issue (I think), > and welding is more common skill then fber glassing. > If I decided to do such a construction I would most > likely buy the plans that utilize plywood (such as > Kurt Hughes Designs) and convert it to Aluminum via > Origami style. > There seems to be an abundance of plans out there > using resins over foam and plywood. But neither of > them appeal to me even though it quite common and > proven. Overall I think Aluminum is a better material > to use over plywood. >  > In a nut shell I'm an advocate of this construction > method and fascinated by the simplicity, and just > wanted to find out if any of the members has done such > a project. Hence the question posted by me. >  > josh   >   >  >  >  > --- Gerd <yago@j...> wrote: >  > > Josh, scantling an oceangoing multihulls is a > > complex thing, full of  > > traps you can fall in. Not only because of the peak > > loads but because  > > of long term fatigue. Because of the weight > > penalties on multies,  > > overscantling is clearly not an option. > >  > > Yes, I am sure you can do the hulls in origami, but > > you should not  > > start from there... first you would ned to define > > the boat as such,  > > volumes, loads, displacement and so on. For that, > > teh easiest approach  > > is to start from an existing boat. For example you > > could take the  > > overall concept of a privilege or any other cruising > > cat in any  > > material, grp, ply, whatever. > >  > > Once you have something that fits your requirements, > > you look at the  > > displacement announced. For crusing multihulls, > > there is usually not a  > > very big difference between the different > > construction methods. > > Then you add up your educated guesses on all the > > stuff you put infrom  > > rig to furniture to water and diesel and so on (and > > which is  > > independant of the hull-material) > >  > > Then you do some basic overall calculations to get a > > relationship  > > between the mull-material'weight by estimating the > > total surface and  > > playing around with different plating and structure > > scnatling to  > > arrive a the weight of a shell.  > >  > > This should be in about the same range as the > > production cat you  > > choose. There are alloy cats, and there ismno reason > > why this should  > > not be feasible, especially above 40', unless you > > have really  > > something very personal in mind. > >  > > Only AFTER that should you choose your assembly > > method.  > >  > > Origami as such does not make a weight difference. > > the difference in  > > weight only apappears when you decide wether you go > > with thicker  > > plating and less structure or vice cersa - but both > > can be origamied ;- > > ) > >  > > Gerd > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, josh Oen > > <josh_894@y...> wrote: > > > > > > You're correct if the whole thing is made of 1/4 > > > plate. But I was thinking only for the hulls. The > > > crossbeams can a tube (3/16 wall..6inch dia?? for > > > front and stern and perhaps a truss type > > construction > > > for midship span, similar to roof type truss that > > is > > > used on building. > > > I do not even know if 1/4 inch for the hulls is an > > > overkill (perhaps 3/16 would be better), because > > this > > > whole concept is still an idea floating in my head > > > about how to construct a catamaran. > >  > >  > >  > >  >  >  >  > 	 > 		 > __________________________________  > Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005  > http://mail.yahoo.com > |
9580|9580|2005-11-16 18:35:55|Gary|Customs Question|A doc mate here in Victoria is a Swede.  He wanted to go home for a  couple of weeks to Sweden for Christmas but was told by Canada Customs  that this would not be allowed unless his vessel had some kind of  problem and he had to leave it here.  Since so many Canadians return  home frequently from other countries temporarily and leaving their  boats behind, I was just wondering if this Swede lost something in the  English translation or is this actually the case that you must stay  with your boat.  Thanks... Gary|
9581|9580|2005-11-16 19:21:16|Alex Christie|Re: Customs Question|I don't know how Canada customs would even know he had left for Sweden  for two weeks, vs leaving for Nanaimo, unless he told them himself!  It  would be a miracle if one bureaucracy, The Port of Victoria Authority,  could effectively communicate with another bureaucracy, Canada Customs,  in order to nail him even if it were an issue.  It takes usually takes  2 weeks for a bureaucrat to blink, let alone push a piece of paper  across a desk, in my experience. There shouldn't be any restriction on  his freedom of movement at all, and as long as his boat is in a secure  location and all paid up, whose business is it?  I'm almost certain  there are Americans who leave their boats in Vancouver and return to  the USA, on a regular basis.  The problem with situations like this is  that in order to ask the proper authorities about it, you end up  "flagging" yourself for further inquiry.  He'd be better off staying  mum and doing his trip home as planned, and leave his boat under the  watchful eye of a friend.  Alex      On 16-Nov-05, at 3:35 PM, Gary wrote:  > A doc mate here in Victoria is a Swede.  He wanted to go home for a >  couple of weeks to Sweden for Christmas but was told by Canada Customs >  that this would not be allowed unless his vessel had some kind of >  problem and he had to leave it here.  Since so many Canadians return >  home frequently from other countries temporarily and leaving their >  boats behind, I was just wondering if this Swede lost something in the >  English translation or is this actually the case that you must stay >  with your boat. > >  Thanks... Gary > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com >  To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:  > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > 	▪ 	 Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web. >   > 	▪ 	 To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >  origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com >   > 	▪ 	 Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of  > Service. > >   [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
9582|9536|2005-11-16 20:28:38|kendall|Re: Steel cutting skillsaw|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Courtney Thomas <ccthomas@j...> wrote:  > > I need to make a frame for a boat winter cover and have some 10'  > bendable sections of 1/2" metal conduit on hand. >  > What would be the easiest way to form 8' arches over the boat ? >  > I doubt my ability to bend 7 parallel arches  and would like to avoid  > trying to welding this thin metal. >  > How could I form up 2 45degree angles on each side ? >                    _ >                   /  \     <---45deg >                 /      \   <---45deg   >                |        |        > I tried to find some 45deg elbows but the only ones I could find were  > $4/ea ! >  > Appreciatively, > Courtney >  >  >        you can make a quick and dirty bender for occasional use with plywood, cut a triangle shaped strip about 8 or 10 inches wide at the wide point and about 4 feet long, tapering to 3" cut 4 disks, one maybe 5 inches diameter, one about 6" one 3", and one 2"  screw and glue the 5 and 6 inchers at the 90 degree side of the wide point, with the 6" on top of the 5" so you have a lip all around, screw the 2" and 3" by the 'sharp' corner, then use it just like a real bender      to size the disks you use plywood the same size as the conduit, and make the 'lip' disk the size of the smaller disk + twice the conduit size as in  5" disk + (1/2" conduit * 2) = 6 that way you have the conduit supported at three points and you're not likely to kink it.     For heavy wall conduit make two sides and you can forget the big disks, for smoother bends make bigger disks    Mark your bend points on the side and go to town.    That's the kind of stuff you come up with when you have a ton of plywood laying around all the time  Ken|
9583|9583|2005-11-16 20:47:33|tazmannusa|Swain 26 opinions|Hello All   I am looking for opinions on the mounting of an outboard on the  transom. all the sailboats Ive had have brackets attached to transom  and its pain to reach when its down and running. Ive sailed with a  freind on his boat and he had an engine well on one side of the  transom and it worked out real nice. What I am thinking about is  putting an engine well on the 26 but Im not sure if it would look  right with the way the transom is shaped. any ideas or thoughts on the  idea? Tom|
9584|9583|2005-11-16 21:38:38|Alex Christie|Re: Swain 26 opinions|If I don't have an engine in time for launching, I'm pondering using a  sliding bracket system for mine, to one side of the rudder.  I'd like  it  to be demountable for serious offshore work (and the eventual  install of the inboard engine), so I was thinking of welding stainless  pads onto the transom where I'd like to mount the bracket, then working  things out from there.  The basic idea is to have two rails that a  carriage board can slide up and down on, using pipes of slightly  greater diameter than the rails.  I simple block and tackle could pull  the rig up out of the water when not in use, reducing electrolysis.   Anyone who has seen a boat with the outboard left in the water long  term knows that the best place for an outboard is not in the water!   They have tiny zincs and are not incredibly durable, so best to lift  and flush with fresh when not in use, and keep everything lubed and  sweet.  I have also pondered installing an eTek electric motor from Briggs and  Stratton -- but at 8 hp its more likely suited to your 26 foot hull  than my 36.  This should be easily the equivalent of a 10 hp in diesel,  if not more, since true "Shaft" horsepower is always less than diesels  are rated for.  The 8 hp electric should be a true 8 hp at the prop,  right?  You could possibly use it as a regenerative system if it  free-wheels, though i don't know much about it yet.  The eTek motor sells for about $375 in some sites I've seen.  You can  start out with the minimum complement of batteries needed to attain  proper voltage (96V?), and see how it goes without investing scads of  money into it.  Alex    On 16-Nov-05, at 5:47 PM, tazmannusa wrote:  > Hello All >    I am looking for opinions on the mounting of an outboard on the >  transom. all the sailboats Ive had have brackets attached to transom >  and its pain to reach when its down and running. Ive sailed with a >  freind on his boat and he had an engine well on one side of the >  transom and it worked out real nice. What I am thinking about is >  putting an engine well on the 26 but Im not sure if it would look >  right with the way the transom is shaped. any ideas or thoughts on the >  idea? >  Tom > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com >  To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:  > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > SPONSORED LINKS > British columbia canada > Vancouver island > Yacht > Victoria bc > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > 	▪ 	 Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web. >   > 	▪ 	 To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >  origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com >   > 	▪ 	 Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of  > Service. > >   [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
9585|9583|2005-11-16 21:46:58|Puck III|Re: Swain 26 opinions|Hi Tom An option to consider , certainly would be to mount the engine in the boat , so the shaft and prop can be easely raised thru an opening in the transom, easy to clair the prop when you have to take a line out , and sure a garantee no corrosion ,when  you leave the boat moored with the added advantage of no drag when sailing. I have build some Simon's SeaSkiffs with 40 hp longschaft and it works great. All you have to do is to offcenter the motor enough , so shaft and prop do not touch the rudder when raised. Your boat will do with a 15hp longshaft pusher , you could look for an old SeaGull if you do not have an engine allready .  Old Ben   --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "tazmannusa" <tazmann@i...>  wrote:  > > Hello All >   I am looking for opinions on the mounting of an outboard on the  > transom. all the sailboats Ive had have brackets attached to   transom   > and its pain to reach when its down and running. Ive sailed with a  > freind on his boat and he had an engine well on one side of the  > transom and it worked out real nice. What I am thinking about is  > putting an engine well on the 26 but Im not sure if it would look  > right with the way the transom is shaped. any ideas or thoughts on   the   > idea? > Tom > |
9586|9551|2005-11-16 22:28:43|josh Oen|Re: New Member question about  Origami  technique for Cats|Gerd  Thanks I just sent an email to you via your web site (yago@...)  Josh  --- Gerd <yago@...> wrote:   > I see... no way to hold you back..in that case - > want us to do some  > research on that togehter? ;-) send me a mail with > your email and we  > have a look? > Gerd >  >  > se--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, josh Oen > <josh_894@y...>  > wrote: > > > > Gerd > >  > > I fully agree with your comments, as multihull is > a > > complex structure to analyze and it would be > foolish > > to try to re-invent the wheel when there are  > plans > > available from reputable Naval architect for > catamaran > > constructed out of  FG / Tortured Ply /Aluminum > etc. > > but none that I have come across using the Origami > > technique for hull construction.  > > It just seems to me that a this method would > > accelerate the hull portion significantly, as the > > fairing of the hull becomes a minor issue (I > think), > > and welding is more common skill then fber > glassing. > > If I decided to do such a construction I would > most > > likely buy the plans that utilize plywood (such as > > Kurt Hughes Designs) and convert it to Aluminum > via > > Origami style. > > There seems to be an abundance of plans out there > > using resins over foam and plywood. But neither of > > them appeal to me even though it quite common and > > proven. Overall I think Aluminum is a better > material > > to use over plywood. > >  > > In a nut shell I'm an advocate of this > construction > > method and fascinated by the simplicity, and just > > wanted to find out if any of the members has done > such > > a project. Hence the question posted by me. > >  > > josh   > >   > >  > >  > >  > > --- Gerd <yago@j...> wrote: > >  > > > Josh, scantling an oceangoing multihulls is a > > > complex thing, full of  > > > traps you can fall in. Not only because of the > peak > > > loads but because  > > > of long term fatigue. Because of the weight > > > penalties on multies,  > > > overscantling is clearly not an option. > > >  > > > Yes, I am sure you can do the hulls in origami, > but > > > you should not  > > > start from there... first you would ned to > define > > > the boat as such,  > > > volumes, loads, displacement and so on. For > that, > > > teh easiest approach  > > > is to start from an existing boat. For example > you > > > could take the  > > > overall concept of a privilege or any other > cruising > > > cat in any  > > > material, grp, ply, whatever. > > >  > > > Once you have something that fits your > requirements, > > > you look at the  > > > displacement announced. For crusing multihulls, > > > there is usually not a  > > > very big difference between the different > > > construction methods. > > > Then you add up your educated guesses on all the > > > stuff you put infrom  > > > rig to furniture to water and diesel and so on > (and > > > which is  > > > independant of the hull-material) > > >  > > > Then you do some basic overall calculations to > get a > > > relationship  > > > between the mull-material'weight by estimating > the > > > total surface and  > > > playing around with different plating and > structure > > > scnatling to  > > > arrive a the weight of a shell.  > > >  > > > This should be in about the same range as the > > > production cat you  > > > choose. There are alloy cats, and there ismno > reason > > > why this should  > > > not be feasible, especially above 40', unless > you > > > have really  > > > something very personal in mind. > > >  > > > Only AFTER that should you choose your assembly > > > method.  > > >  > > > Origami as such does not make a weight > difference. > > > the difference in  > > > weight only apappears when you decide wether you > go > > > with thicker  > > > plating and less structure or vice cersa - but > both > > > can be origamied ;- > > > ) > > >  > > > Gerd > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, josh Oen > > > <josh_894@y...> wrote: > > > > > > > > You're correct if the whole thing is made of > 1/4 > > > > plate. But I was thinking only for the hulls. > The > > > > crossbeams can a tube (3/16 wall..6inch dia?? > for > > > > front and stern and perhaps a truss type > > > construction > > > > for midship span, similar to roof type truss > that > > > is > > > > used on building. > > > > I do not even know if 1/4 inch for the hulls > is an > > > > overkill (perhaps 3/16 would be better), > because > > > this > > > > whole concept is still an idea floating in my > head > > > > about how to construct a catamaran. > > >  > > >  > > >  > > >  > >  > >  > >  > > 	 > > 		 > > __________________________________  > > Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005  > > http://mail.yahoo.com > > >  >  >  >  >  >     	 		  __________________________________  Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005  http://mail.yahoo.com|
9587|9583|2005-11-17 00:13:04|tom|Re: Swain 26 opinions|Hello Alex  I like the idea of it sliding up and down on rails, then it wouldnt have to  be set back as far for tilting motor to clear water, could be reached  easyer.  I thought about electric also but waight would be a big issue, if Im  calculating rite 96 volt would take 8 batteries,that would be over 400  pounds of batteries. I was looking into golfcart motors and there 36 volt  but by the time you rig up charging,solar,wind, and or off prop things start  geting complicated.  Im only putting a 6hp johnson on should be plenty just for docking and  crowded harbors.  How long before youre ready to launch?  Thanks for the idea Tom   ----- Original Message -----  From: "Alex Christie" <achristie@...> To: <origamiboats@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, November 16, 2005 6:38 PM Subject: Re: [origamiboats] Swain 26 opinions   If I don't have an engine in time for launching, I'm pondering using a sliding bracket system for mine, to one side of the rudder.  I'd like it  to be demountable for serious offshore work (and the eventual install of the inboard engine), so I was thinking of welding stainless pads onto the transom where I'd like to mount the bracket, then working things out from there.  The basic idea is to have two rails that a carriage board can slide up and down on, using pipes of slightly greater diameter than the rails.  I simple block and tackle could pull the rig up out of the water when not in use, reducing electrolysis. Anyone who has seen a boat with the outboard left in the water long term knows that the best place for an outboard is not in the water! They have tiny zincs and are not incredibly durable, so best to lift and flush with fresh when not in use, and keep everything lubed and sweet.  I have also pondered installing an eTek electric motor from Briggs and Stratton -- but at 8 hp its more likely suited to your 26 foot hull than my 36.  This should be easily the equivalent of a 10 hp in diesel, if not more, since true "Shaft" horsepower is always less than diesels are rated for.  The 8 hp electric should be a true 8 hp at the prop, right?  You could possibly use it as a regenerative system if it free-wheels, though i don't know much about it yet.  The eTek motor sells for about $375 in some sites I've seen.  You can start out with the minimum complement of batteries needed to attain proper voltage (96V?), and see how it goes without investing scads of money into it.  Alex   On 16-Nov-05, at 5:47 PM, tazmannusa wrote:  > Hello All >  I am looking for opinions on the mounting of an outboard on the >  transom. all the sailboats Ive had have brackets attached to transom >  and its pain to reach when its down and running. Ive sailed with a >  freind on his boat and he had an engine well on one side of the >  transom and it worked out real nice. What I am thinking about is >  putting an engine well on the 26 but Im not sure if it would look >  right with the way the transom is shaped. any ideas or thoughts on the >  idea? >  Tom > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com >  To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > SPONSORED LINKS > British columbia canada > Vancouver island > Yacht > Victoria bc > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > â–ª Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web. > > â–ª To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > â–ª Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > Service. > >   [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]     To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:  origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links |
9588|9583|2005-11-17 00:41:53|Alex Christie|Re: Swain 26 opinions|Hi Tom,  I miscalculated voltage necessary for the eTek:  I think it is only 48  volt, which would be four batteries.  One fellow on this site  http://www.psnw.com/~jmrudholm/etekoutboard.html started out with 12  volt and eventually went up to 48 volt.  I don't know enough about  electrics to understand how he could use only 12 volts to start with.   If you only need the motor for docking and crowded harbours, I'd go for  the electric in that small boat: 100% torque at 0 rpm means you'd have  reverse and forward power at the touch of a toggle.  I believe you  should be able to freewheel the prop to charge the batteries.  The only drawback of outboards is that there is very little stopping  power in reverse.  I solved this by backing in first, leaving forward  thrust available to for stopping a heavy boat faster.  If you attach  your outboard to your rudder with a connecting rod you can steer the  motor and direct the thrust at any speed.  I never had my outboard  submerged before on another boat I had with it rigged on the transom,  but it sure would be nice to have everything inboard.  Because the eTek  is so small (21 lbs), there is tons of space available where an engine  would normally stick up.  Alex   On 16-Nov-05, at 9:11 PM, tom wrote:  > Hello Alex >  I like the idea of it sliding up and down on rails, then it wouldnt  > have to >  be set back as far for tilting motor to clear water, could be reached >  easyer. >  I thought about electric also but waight would be a big issue, if Im >  calculating rite 96 volt would take 8 batteries,that would be over 400 >  pounds of batteries. I was looking into golfcart motors and there 36  > volt >  but by the time you rig up charging,solar,wind, and or off prop  > things start >  geting complicated. >  Im only putting a 6hp johnson on should be plenty just for docking and >  crowded harbors. >  How long before youre ready to launch? >  Thanks for the idea >  Tom   [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
9589|9536|2005-11-17 04:49:28|edward_stoneuk|Re: Steel cutting skillsaw (Bending conduit)|Courtenay, If you go to Ted & Fiona's boat bits in the origamiboats 2 forum  http://photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats2/lst, there are  photos of a pipe bending shoe that I made from plywood and steel.  I  have bent 1¼" schedule 40 with it. Regards, Ted|
9590|9583|2005-11-17 05:05:34|Puck III|Re: Swain 26 opinions|Hi Tom , I just uploaded 3 pics : outboardlifter and drascombe1 + 2 in Ben's stuff filealbum in the Files of origamiboats2 the Drascombe system is made for a smaller boat but the system is as simple as the SeaSkiff system , where the heavyer 40hp tilts easely cause it's a safety when you hit an underwater object. The idea is the hole in the hull stay's open and continues  in the transom , easy exit of any waterbuild-up inside the hole in the hull [ racers remove the outboard and have a fill-in piece to counter that waterbuild up cause the afthend of any hole act as a serious brake ]  The classic usual prop [ collapsable sailprop if you can ] used in the classic direct drive is the simpelest instalation.  You can aliment any electric engine , with any explosion engine used as a generator [ this is done on racers for better  weightdistribution ] any little dieselgenerator or gasgenerator will be less heavy than the batterybank needed for a total electric system except if you only need very limited time use [ the batery could be empty when you need the power ,I use an  electric bowthruster with a separate battery and I know :-)  As usual a pic is better than many words .  "Just have a look and judge for yourself." is how I refer to your pretty pics in OrigamiPlyBoatDesign. Succes with all the options faced when building :-)  Old Ben   --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III" <ben_azo@h...> wrote: > > Hi Tom > An option to consider , certainly would be to > mount the engine in the boat , so the shaft and prop can > be easely raised thru an opening in the transom, > easy to clair the prop when you have > to take a line out , and sure a garantee no corrosion ,when  > you leave the boat moored with the added advantage of no > drag when sailing. > I have build some Simon's SeaSkiffs with 40 hp longschaft > and it works great. > All you have to do is to offcenter the motor enough , > so shaft and prop do not touch the rudder when raised. > Your boat will do with a 15hp longshaft pusher , > you could look for an old SeaGull if you do not > have an engine allready . >  > Old Ben >  >  > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "tazmannusa" <tazmann@i...>  > wrote: > > > > Hello All > >   I am looking for opinions on the mounting of an outboard on the  > > transom. all the sailboats Ive had have brackets attached to  > transom  > > and its pain to reach when its down and running. Ive sailed with  a  > > freind on his boat and he had an engine well on one side of the  > > transom and it worked out real nice. What I am thinking about is  > > putting an engine well on the 26 but Im not sure if it would look  > > right with the way the transom is shaped. any ideas or thoughts  on  > the  > > idea? > > Tom > > > |
9591|9555|2005-11-17 05:08:46|edward_stoneuk|Re: best pacific weather|Hi Richy, I think that there are books and software listing the currents,  prevailing winds and weather patterns of the oceans.  A troll through  Google or a marine bookstore should find one or two.  Or perhaps join  one of the long distance cruising clubs.  I am not at that stage yet.   Good luck. Regards, Ted|
9592|9592|2005-11-17 05:21:28|edward_stoneuk|Pneumatic tank gauges|Nigel Calder in his maintenance manual recommends pneumatic tank  gauges.  A pipe is fitted so that its lower end is at the bottom of  the tank the other end is fitted with a pressure gauge or manometer  that reads in inches water gauge with the span slightly more than the  height of the tank. An air pump is fitted and pumped so the the water  or fuel is expelled from the bottom of the pipe.  The pressure shown  on the gauge in inches water gauge is equal to the height of the water  in the tank above the outlet of the pipe.  A table can be drawn up to  show what that means in gallons.  The same system can be used with  diesel tanks with a conversion factor to allow for the difference in  density.  By using a manifold the same gauge can be used to sound  several tanks.  Does anyone have any experience of what sounds like a  beautifully simple system? Regards, Ted|
9593|9592|2005-11-17 05:41:08|T & D CAIN|Re: Pneumatic tank gauges|Ted, The back pressure level measuring system has a long and respected history in industrial measurement and control systems. There are only minor corrections required for a simple system, apart from the density factor you mention. In the era of "bubbler gauges" as some were called, the issue was to keep the purge flow constant and this was usually accomplished by manually set "rotameter" gauges in which a small black ball float was suspended by the purge air flow in a tapered glass tube. The tube was calibrated in cc's per minute or equivalent, and the air flow was sourced from a regulated instrument air supply. This technique yielded satisfactory back pressures which could be converted by low pressure transducers to allow remote reading of tank levels. In our boat tank world, the ballpark readings given by a simple manometer (U tube with H2O or like) are usually adequate, and a puffer type squeezy bulb is used to pump the high leg of the U tube (think of the blood pressure sphygmomanometer) and Bob's your uncle. As time passed, clever folk found much more technical and expensive ways (and in many cases BETTER) to give readings with a greatly constrained error budget. KISS is alive and well. Terry   -----Original Message----- From:	origamiboats@yahoogroups.com [mailto:origamiboats@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of edward_stoneuk Sent:	Thursday, 17 November 2005 19:49 To:	origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Subject:	[origamiboats] Pneumatic tank gauges  Nigel Calder in his maintenance manual recommends pneumatic tank gauges.  A pipe is fitted so that its lower end is at the bottom of the tank the other end is fitted with a pressure gauge or manometer that reads in inches water gauge with the span slightly more than the height of the tank. An air pump is fitted and pumped so the the water or fuel is expelled from the bottom of the pipe.  The pressure shown on the gauge in inches water gauge is equal to the height of the water in the tank above the outlet of the pipe.  A table can be drawn up to show what that means in gallons.  The same system can be used with diesel tanks with a conversion factor to allow for the difference in density.  By using a manifold the same gauge can be used to sound several tanks.  Does anyone have any experience of what sounds like a beautifully simple system? Regards, Ted       To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links|
9594|9536|2005-11-17 09:00:56|Courtney Thomas|Re: Steel cutting skillsaw (Bending conduit)|Ted,  Thanks for the information. I joined the group and looked at your  picture(s). Great stuff !  Appreciatively, Courtney  edward_stoneuk wrote:  > Courtenay, > If you go to Ted & Fiona's boat bits in the origamiboats 2 forum  > http://photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats2/lst, there are  > photos of a pipe bending shoe that I made from plywood and steel.  I  > have bent 1¼" schedule 40 with it. > Regards, > Ted >  >  >  >  >  >  > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com  > Yahoo! Groups Links >  >  >  >   >  >  > |
9595|9583|2005-11-17 09:56:48|tom|Re: Swain 26 opinions|Hello Old Ben  That would be a nice system kept in the center of the boat but if its  offset to clear rudder I think it would take up a lot of cockpit space. What  I was thinking was to cut the transom about 15"wide and 18" deep  and the  engine would mount directly to transom with a splash tray built inside. the  splash tray would be about 15" long and the top would be flush with cockpit  seats. then one can reach everything sitting in cockpit without having to  hang over transom to shift or start it Tom  ----- Original Message -----  From: "Puck III" <ben_azo@...> To: <origamiboats@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2005 2:04 AM Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Swain 26 opinions   > Hi Tom , I just uploaded 3 pics : outboardlifter and drascombe1 + 2 > in Ben's stuff filealbum in the Files of origamiboats2 > the Drascombe system is made for a smaller boat but the system is > as simple as the SeaSkiff system , where the heavyer 40hp tilts > easely cause it's a safety when you hit an underwater object. > The idea is the hole in the hull stay's open and continues > in the transom , easy exit of any waterbuild-up inside the hole > in the hull [ racers remove the outboard and have a fill-in piece > to counter that waterbuild up cause the afthend of any hole act > as a serious brake ] > > The classic usual prop [ collapsable sailprop if you can ] > used in the classic direct drive is the simpelest instalation. > > You can aliment any electric engine , with any explosion engine > used as a generator [ this is done on racers for better > weightdistribution ] any little dieselgenerator or gasgenerator > will be less heavy than the batterybank needed for a total > electric system except if you only need very limited time use > [ the batery could be empty when you need the power ,I use an > electric bowthruster with a separate battery and I know :-) > > As usual a pic is better than many words . > > "Just have a look and judge for yourself." > is how I refer to your pretty pics in OrigamiPlyBoatDesign. > Succes with all the options faced when building :-) > > Old Ben > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III" <ben_azo@h...> wrote: >> >> Hi Tom >> An option to consider , certainly would be to >> mount the engine in the boat , so the shaft and prop can >> be easely raised thru an opening in the transom, >> easy to clair the prop when you have >> to take a line out , and sure a garantee no corrosion ,when >> you leave the boat moored with the added advantage of no >> drag when sailing. >> I have build some Simon's SeaSkiffs with 40 hp longschaft >> and it works great. >> All you have to do is to offcenter the motor enough , >> so shaft and prop do not touch the rudder when raised. >> Your boat will do with a 15hp longshaft pusher , >> you could look for an old SeaGull if you do not >> have an engine allready . >> >> Old Ben >> >> >> --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "tazmannusa" <tazmann@i...> >> wrote: >> > >> > Hello All >> >   I am looking for opinions on the mounting of an outboard on the >> > transom. all the sailboats Ive had have brackets attached to >> transom >> > and its pain to reach when its down and running. Ive sailed with > a >> > freind on his boat and he had an engine well on one side of the >> > transom and it worked out real nice. What I am thinking about is >> > putting an engine well on the 26 but Im not sure if it would look >> > right with the way the transom is shaped. any ideas or thoughts > on >> the >> > idea? >> > Tom >> > >> > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:  > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > |
9596|9198|2005-11-17 11:21:24|Henri Naths|Re: Marinizing an engine|congats old bud looks like you will be under way soon. Do you need crew ?<grin>.    ----- Original Message -----    From: richytill    To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com    Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2005 4:32 PM   Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Marinizing an engine     Henry, mast is up now.  Went out on the straight one snotty morning    to see how she faired with the rig up.  Took a few steep ones over    the bow--no problem.  The mast has a profound effect on dampening    roll.  The vessel also sits well on her lines.  Sails next.  rt        -- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Henri Naths" <c_hnaths@t...>    wrote:   >   > Thanks  Richard ,   > H.   >   ----- Original Message -----    >   From: richytill    >   To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com    >   Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2005 11:54 AM   >   Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Marinizing an engine   >    >    >   Henri, non turbo means less expense and less complicated.  I have    >   tried to keep thing simple--the turbo would be one more system to    >   maintain.  I need to check through the log book more carefully    but we    >   came from Pender Harbour to Gibsons Landing and Burrard bridge to    >   Long Bay Gambier on around 3.5 L per hour(@ 2100--2500 rpm) as    far as    >   I can tell.  I need to refine my sounding stick and average out    the    >   records more to give a more accurate consumption rate.  This is    with    >   a Campbell sailor prop' and that is better progress than the    previous    >   Michigan prop.  Speed varies according to conditions but is good    at    >   5.8 knts where the hull slips along easy.   >    >   rt   >         >    >    >    >   --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Henri Naths"    <c_hnaths@t...>    >   wrote:   >   >   >   > Hi Richard    >   > Nice to here from you concerning vw.( I am assuming a16d is    1600 cc    >   non turbo ) Do you have stats on per hr fuel consumption as per    rpm    >   range?    >   > Is there a reason you chose non turbo other than the    availability    >   factor?   >   > Thanks     >   > H.   >   >    >   >   ----- Original Message -----    >   >   From: richytill    >   >   To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com    >   >   Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2005 10:25 AM   >   >   Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Marinizing an engine   >   >    >   >    >   >   Engine folks,    >   >    >   >    >   >   Here is a cost breakdown, by the year, on installing a VW 16D    >   engine    >   >   with a Borg Warner 71c transmission.  Year 1: $1679.03; year    2:    >   >   $2402.80; year 3: $1497.50; year 4: $1007.27--this should    total    >   >   $6586.60.  This includes all the anti freeze; oil coolers;    hoses;    >   >   clamps; 2 racor fuel filters; prop and spare prop; gaskets;    >   timing    >   >   belt; glow plugs; making the flywheel assy'; external    filters;    >   >   exhhaust system and every little nut, bolt, gasket, morse    control    >   >   cable, with prop shaft, stuffing box etc.   >   >    >   >   I have been motoring for around 70 hours now and am pleased    with    >   the    >   >   system--performance is as predicted from calculations (7.2    knts    >   @3200    >   >   rpm),parts are affordable and easy to come by.  The engine is    >   limited    >   >   to 3300 rpm for peak volumetric efficiency.  Manifold is    cooled    >   by    >   >   bilge blower fan exiting above underwater exhaust anti-siphon    >   loop.     >   >   Starter must be protected with an aluminum heat shield.  rt   >   >    >   >    >   >    >   >    >   >    >   >    >   >   --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "T & D CAIN"    <thcain@o...>    >   wrote:   >   >   >   >   >   > Gord, Unfortunately the people who were responsible for    >   >   investigating or   >   >   > removing the engine from the boat damaged the Bowman    combination   >   >   > heatexchanger/manifold/head tank, which is a model VW150    and is    >   >   allegedly   >   >   > still available new as are all the parts.   >   >   > The damage is to both ends of the cast alloy section which    >   houses    >   >   the tube   >   >   > stack. About 6 tubes in the stack have been indented as a    >   result.    >   >   Number one   >   >   > cylinder exhaust stub flange was also damaged. I suppose    the    >   >   casting could   >   >   > be repaired, but those tubes would be a pain to replace or    fix    >   as    >   >   they are   >   >   > silver brazed to the header ends of the stack. As you    probably    >   >   know, the   >   >   > neoprene end caps need to fit and seal both the alloy ends    and    >   the    >   >   tube   >   >   > stack headers.   >   >   > I can take some photos of the parts if required.   >   >   > This model heat exchanger is identical to mine.   >   >   > I had a look in the top of the camshaft case and the damn    thing    >   >   looked like   >   >   > new! Apparently the engine was seized (#3 cylinder) and a    >   A$12000    >   >   Yanmar was   >   >   > installed by the new owner.   >   >   > I stripped most easily removable bits including the damper    >   drive    >   >   which   >   >   > looked new --- I should have just taken the whole engine as    it    >   was    >   >   headed   >   >   > for the tip.   >   >   > Terry   >   >   > -----Original Message-----   >   >   > From: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com    >   >   [mailto:origamiboats@yahoogroups.com] On   >   >   > Behalf Of gschnell   >   >   > Sent: Monday, 24 October 2005 03:06   >   >   > To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com   >   >   > Subject: Re: [origamiboats] Marinizing an engine   >   >   >   >   >    >   >    >   >    >   >    >   >    >   >    >   >    >   >   To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com   >   >   To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-   >   unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com    >   >   Yahoo! Groups Links   >   >    >   >    >   >    >   >       >   >    >   >    >   >    >   > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]   >   >   >    >    >    >    >    >    >    >   To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com   >   To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-   unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com    >   Yahoo! Groups Links   >    >    >    >       >    >    >    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]   >          To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com   To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com    Yahoo! Groups Links            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
9597|9597|2005-11-17 13:19:08|Robert Mitchell|Re: Digest Number 1375|> Message: 1          >    Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2005 09:14:23 -0800 (PST) >    From: josh Oen <josh_894@...> > Subject: Re: Re: New Member question about  Origami  technique for Cats >  > Gerd >  > Your right about structural loads that is imparted by > the hulls. But I think with a tube style crossbeam one > in front one in the back and an "I" beam type of > structure at midship span, I think the tosional loads > can be met.  > There is issues as you mention with squarness between > hulls,leveling and such, but I think with good > templates, proper jigging and dimensional checks > errors can be minimized. > The big question is has anyone made thin, long, > slender huls using the Origami technique. If I > understand your respnse it sound like it can be done > but perhaps no one has at this time (Origami style > that is). >  > josh   >     Josh Have a look at the KSS boat building forum (KSSBoat@...).  Is it Origami?  I don't want to start a war, but the basic shapes are made from fibreglass on a table, flat, and then  darts are cut to form the volume.  Different shapes than Brent uses, but a similar idea. Derek Kelsall, the man promoting the technique is very nice, experienced and practical.  I went to one of their seminars and it is a good way to build sandwich FG boats and probably  one of the fastest home building techniques for building a large cat.    BUT it is still YEARS of work.   Rob|
9598|9597|2005-11-17 14:30:21|brentswain38|Re: Digest Number 1375|Origami techniques can be used in a variety of techniques . The flat  fibreglass can be bought in rolls from plastic shops, savint the time  of laying it out on a flat surface. This would also be a good way to  make a fibreglas dinghy.  I think origami is in the proccess of becoming the standard way of  building many types of hulls. Brent  --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Robert Mitchell  <Robert.Mitchell4@s...> wrote:  > >  > > Message: 1          > >    Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2005 09:14:23 -0800 (PST) > >    From: josh Oen <josh_894@y...> > > Subject: Re: Re: New Member question about  Origami  technique   for Cats  > >  > > Gerd > >  > > Your right about structural loads that is imparted by > > the hulls. But I think with a tube style crossbeam one > > in front one in the back and an "I" beam type of > > structure at midship span, I think the tosional loads > > can be met.  > > There is issues as you mention with squarness between > > hulls,leveling and such, but I think with good > > templates, proper jigging and dimensional checks > > errors can be minimized. > > The big question is has anyone made thin, long, > > slender huls using the Origami technique. If I > > understand your respnse it sound like it can be done > > but perhaps no one has at this time (Origami style > > that is). > >  > > josh   > >    > Josh > Have a look at the KSS boat building forum (KSSBoat@y...).  Is it   Origami?  I don't want  > to start a war, but the basic shapes are made from fibreglass on a   table, flat, and then   > darts are cut to form the volume.  Different shapes than Brent   uses, but a similar idea.  > Derek Kelsall, the man promoting the technique is very nice,   experienced and practical.   > I went to one of their seminars and it is a good way to build   sandwich FG boats and probably   > one of the fastest home building techniques for building a large   cat.  >    > BUT it is still YEARS of work.   > Rob > |
9599|9580|2005-11-17 14:32:18|brentswain38|Re: Customs Question|Yanks leave their boats here all the time, so I don't see why Swedes  should have any problem.He should ask marina managers how the yanks do  it. Brent    --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Gary" <greenguy2ca@y...> wrote: > > A doc mate here in Victoria is a Swede.  He wanted to go home for a  > couple of weeks to Sweden for Christmas but was told by Canada  Customs  > that this would not be allowed unless his vessel had some kind of  > problem and he had to leave it here.  Since so many Canadians return  > home frequently from other countries temporarily and leaving their  > boats behind, I was just wondering if this Swede lost something in  the  > English translation or is this actually the case that you must stay  > with your boat. >  > Thanks... Gary > |
9600|9583|2005-11-17 14:37:08|brentswain38|Re: Swain 26 opinions|An engine well protects the engine better, but is much noisier as the  sound is reflected back. They also can cause an engine to die on it's  own exhuast fumes .  I've heard that Johnson extensions fit into one another, so you can  put as many extensions you want on to get whatever length you want.  I'd do that and put it on the top of the transom, no bracket needed . Brent   --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "tazmannusa" <tazmann@i...>  wrote:  > > Hello All >   I am looking for opinions on the mounting of an outboard on the  > transom. all the sailboats Ive had have brackets attached to   transom   > and its pain to reach when its down and running. Ive sailed with a  > freind on his boat and he had an engine well on one side of the  > transom and it worked out real nice. What I am thinking about is  > putting an engine well on the 26 but Im not sure if it would look  > right with the way the transom is shaped. any ideas or thoughts on   the   > idea? > Tom > |
9601|9580|2005-11-17 14:37:51|brentswain38|Re: Customs Question|I guess if we do the inquiry for him, without mentioning nationality,  we can prevent him from getting flagged . Brent   --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Alex Christie <achristie@s...>  wrote:  > > I don't know how Canada customs would even know he had left for   Sweden   > for two weeks, vs leaving for Nanaimo, unless he told them   himself!  It   > would be a miracle if one bureaucracy, The Port of Victoria   Authority,   > could effectively communicate with another bureaucracy, Canada   Customs,   > in order to nail him even if it were an issue.  It takes usually   takes   > 2 weeks for a bureaucrat to blink, let alone push a piece of paper  > across a desk, in my experience. There shouldn't be any restriction   on   > his freedom of movement at all, and as long as his boat is in a   secure   > location and all paid up, whose business is it?  I'm almost certain  > there are Americans who leave their boats in Vancouver and return   to   > the USA, on a regular basis.  The problem with situations like this   is   > that in order to ask the proper authorities about it, you end up  > "flagging" yourself for further inquiry.  He'd be better off   staying   > mum and doing his trip home as planned, and leave his boat under   the   > watchful eye of a friend. >  > Alex >  >  >  >  > On 16-Nov-05, at 3:35 PM, Gary wrote: >  > > A doc mate here in Victoria is a Swede.  He wanted to go home   for a  > >  couple of weeks to Sweden for Christmas but was told by Canada   Customs  > >  that this would not be allowed unless his vessel had some kind of > >  problem and he had to leave it here.  Since so many Canadians   return  > >  home frequently from other countries temporarily and leaving   their  > >  boats behind, I was just wondering if this Swede lost something   in the  > >  English translation or is this actually the case that you must   stay  > >  with your boat. > > > >  Thanks... Gary > > > > > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > >  To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:  > > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > > > 	▪ 	 Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web. > >   > > 	▪ 	 To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > >  origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > >   > > 	▪ 	 Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!   Terms of   > > Service. > > > > >  >  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > |
9602|9583|2005-11-17 14:42:33|brentswain38|Re: Swain 26 opinions|A friend built a 12 volt electric wheelbarrow. It was only good for  one trip up the hill. With the same batteries he converted it to 48  volts and it ran all day. Higher voltage and less amps means less  loss in the windings and a longer running time. Brent   --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Alex Christie <achristie@s...>  wrote:  > > Hi Tom, >  > I miscalculated voltage necessary for the eTek:  I think it is only   48   > volt, which would be four batteries.  One fellow on this site  > http://www.psnw.com/~jmrudholm/etekoutboard.html started out with   12   > volt and eventually went up to 48 volt.  I don't know enough about  > electrics to understand how he could use only 12 volts to start   with.    > If you only need the motor for docking and crowded harbours, I'd go   for   > the electric in that small boat: 100% torque at 0 rpm means you'd   have   > reverse and forward power at the touch of a toggle.  I believe you  > should be able to freewheel the prop to charge the batteries. >  > The only drawback of outboards is that there is very little   stopping   > power in reverse.  I solved this by backing in first, leaving   forward   > thrust available to for stopping a heavy boat faster.  If you   attach   > your outboard to your rudder with a connecting rod you can steer   the   > motor and direct the thrust at any speed.  I never had my outboard  > submerged before on another boat I had with it rigged on the   transom,   > but it sure would be nice to have everything inboard.  Because the   eTek   > is so small (21 lbs), there is tons of space available where an   engine   > would normally stick up. >  > Alex >  > On 16-Nov-05, at 9:11 PM, tom wrote: >  > > Hello Alex > >  I like the idea of it sliding up and down on rails, then it   wouldnt   > > have to > >  be set back as far for tilting motor to clear water, could be   reached  > >  easyer. > >  I thought about electric also but waight would be a big issue,   if Im  > >  calculating rite 96 volt would take 8 batteries,that would be   over 400  > >  pounds of batteries. I was looking into golfcart motors and   there 36   > > volt > >  but by the time you rig up charging,solar,wind, and or off prop  > > things start > >  geting complicated. > >  Im only putting a 6hp johnson on should be plenty just for   docking and  > >  crowded harbors. > >  How long before youre ready to launch? > >  Thanks for the idea > >  Tom >  >  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > |
9603|9603|2005-11-17 15:00:05|evanmoonjunk|income for cruising?|Hi Gang, if you have ever wished you could be in on a new internet  company at start up, I recently came across such a situation which  might appeal to some people. Send me a private email for the website,  thanks....Evan|
9604|9580|2005-11-17 16:52:31|kingsknight4life|Re: Customs Question|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "brentswain38"  <brentswain38@h...> wrote:  > > Yanks leave their boats here all the time, so I don't see why Swedes  > should have any problem.He should ask marina managers how the yanks   do   > it. > Brent >  While we were living at Shelter Island there were peoople from ALL  countries leaving their boats and heading to their home countries. In  particular I rememeber a Norwegian man who did this more han once to  go and work. Of course maybe it was becasue he had a steel boat? ;)|
9605|9605|2005-11-17 17:05:43|kingsknight4life|slowly making progress|Hi all  A quick update on the building process. Actually not much "building"  has been going on but we are making headway in the materials dept. I  located a source of wood for trimming the boat and it should look nice  and hold up really well. Best of all it is cheap. We're doing the  inside in Pacific Yew and found somone who wants to trade straight  across with us for some left over Yellow Cedar that we have.  The second major score (I think) is a rebuilt Kubota engine. It was in  a skid steer and got "dusted", t the time it had less than 100 hrs. on  it. It was then sent back to Kubota Canada and totally factory  rebuilt. It is the V2203b model max HP is 50 and approx. 38 hp @ 1800  rpm. Is this too big of an engine for my Swain 36 and is $3300 too  high of a price. I know that new they go for more than twice that but  that includes the water manifold, which I can purchase for $400.00.  This price includes starter, alternator and flywwheel. Any thoughts or  comments? Thanks Rowland|
9606|9580|2005-11-17 19:24:33|Carl Volkwein|Re: Customs Question|So, break something.       Carl, from Wv.  brentswain38 <brentswain38@...> wrote:   I guess if we do the inquiry for him, without mentioning nationality,  we can prevent him from getting flagged . Brent   --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Alex Christie <achristie@s...>  wrote:  > > I don't know how Canada customs would even know he had left for   Sweden   > for two weeks, vs leaving for Nanaimo, unless he told them   himself!  It   > would be a miracle if one bureaucracy, The Port of Victoria   Authority,   > could effectively communicate with another bureaucracy, Canada   Customs,   > in order to nail him even if it were an issue.  It takes usually   takes   > 2 weeks for a bureaucrat to blink, let alone push a piece of paper  > across a desk, in my experience. There shouldn't be any restriction   on   > his freedom of movement at all, and as long as his boat is in a   secure   > location and all paid up, whose business is it?  I'm almost certain  > there are Americans who leave their boats in Vancouver and return   to   > the USA, on a regular basis.  The problem with situations like this   is   > that in order to ask the proper authorities about it, you end up  > "flagging" yourself for further inquiry.  He'd be better off   staying   > mum and doing his trip home as planned, and leave his boat under   the   > watchful eye of a friend. >  > Alex >  >  >  >  > On 16-Nov-05, at 3:35 PM, Gary wrote: >  > > A doc mate here in Victoria is a Swede.  He wanted to go home   for a  > >  couple of weeks to Sweden for Christmas but was told by Canada   Customs  > >  that this would not be allowed unless his vessel had some kind of > >  problem and he had to leave it here.  Since so many Canadians   return  > >  home frequently from other countries temporarily and leaving   their  > >  boats behind, I was just wondering if this Swede lost something   in the  > >  English translation or is this actually the case that you must   stay  > >  with your boat. > > > >  Thanks... Gary > > > > > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > >  To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:  > > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > > >       ▪        Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web. > >   > >       ▪        To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > >  origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > >   > >       ▪        Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!   Terms of   > > Service. > > > > >  >  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >        To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com         ---------------------------------   YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS            Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web.          To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:  origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com          Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.        ---------------------------------          		 ---------------------------------  Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click.    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]|
9607|9536|2005-11-17 19:49:28|Carl Volkwein|Re: Steel cutting skillsaw|I used to make "canopies" out of conduit, I'd take short pieces of one size bigger conduit, so the smaller pieces would slide inside, I'd cut them on a band saw, but if you where only making one, you could do it with a hacksaw, no problem. I'd weld the pieces together with a Mig. useing "fluxcore wire" and I WOULDN'T want to try it with "stick" welder, then drill1\4" holes near the ends, and weld 1\4" nuts over the holes, and fit 1\4" bolts into the nuts, if you want to picture this, go to a nearby "flea market{" and look at the "canopies" the dealers have, just make the pieces out the top 1\2 as long as you want it wide, and the other pieces as tall.              Carl from Wv.  kendall <merc2dogs@...> wrote:   --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Courtney Thomas <ccthomas@j...> wrote:  > > I need to make a frame for a boat winter cover and have some 10'  > bendable sections of 1/2" metal conduit on hand. >  > What would be the easiest way to form 8' arches over the boat ? >  > I doubt my ability to bend 7 parallel arches  and would like to avoid  > trying to welding this thin metal. >  > How could I form up 2 45degree angles on each side ? >                    _ >                   /  \     <---45deg >                 /      \   <---45deg   >                |        |        > I tried to find some 45deg elbows but the only ones I could find were  > $4/ea ! >  > Appreciatively, > Courtney >  >  >      you can make a quick and dirty bender for occasional use with plywood, cut a triangle shaped strip about 8 or 10 inches wide at the wide point and about 4 feet long, tapering to 3" cut 4 disks, one maybe 5 inches diameter, one about 6" one 3", and one 2"  screw and glue the 5 and 6 inchers at the 90 degree side of the wide point, with the 6" on top of the 5" so you have a lip all around, screw the 2" and 3" by the 'sharp' corner, then use it just like a real bender     to size the disks you use plywood the same size as the conduit, and make the 'lip' disk the size of the smaller disk + twice the conduit size as in  5" disk + (1/2" conduit * 2) = 6 that way you have the conduit supported at three points and you're not likely to kink it.   For heavy wall conduit make two sides and you can forget the big disks, for smoother bends make bigger disks  Mark your bend points on the side and go to town.    That's the kind of stuff you come up with when you have a ton of plywood laying around all the time  Ken       To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com       SPONSORED LINKS          British columbia canada   Vancouver island   Yacht     Victoria bc       ---------------------------------   YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS            Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web.          To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:  origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com          Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.        ---------------------------------          		 ---------------------------------  Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click.    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]|
9608|9608|2005-11-17 20:37:14|Puck III|Re: Swain 26 Options|Hi Tom ,options options options.....thats what you are facing,  so again I posted some pics in the Options file in the  Ben's stuff file in Origamiboats2 .    > You mentioned earlyer you wanted to trail your boat home > regularly to save on mooringcosts and thats a good idea > cause you own the truck. >  > Trailor : > Think about the regular trailingjob when looking at the > options for the appendixes as keel(s) rudder(s) and engine. > I saw the crane on the truck but could she lift a finished > boat upon a trailor ? so you must consider winding the boat > upon a usual boattrailor with a frontwich. > Where will you install the rollers to support the hull > while winding ? > [some appendixes are ideal for a flatbottom trailor]  >  > Keel(s) options :  > - single keel > - twinkeel > - more profiled keels with bulbs [see twinkeelarticle] > - center or side-boards > - short profilekeels combined with side-boards >   [eventualy combined with double rudder ] >  > Stability : > To be able to make a good choice about the keels, > one has to consider form and end stability by looking at the > imerged volumes , superstructurs and wheelhouse included. > The placement of permanent [as ballast] and  > variable [as tanks] weights is crucial . > This is done by testing the design , superstructure volumes > included in a real stability > program [see navaldesigner stability pic ] >  > Superstructure : > see more than one pic in the photosection from : > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/seabull/ >  > Interiordesign : > one can try to optimise that for the special needs > for the owner and its crew . the cost to build a > well thought out interior is the same as for a fiasco. > [see http://cruisenews.net/images/Puck/ > or Puck 7.77 pic to see what can be done] >  > Motoroptions : > leaving all options open for now seems wise to me. >  > When looking over the pretty pics you posted I > can't but admire Brent's Swain simple and fine hull > design [ nothing is more difficult ] , I particularly > like the full afth-sections with the wide stern and > think she must have a slippery hull for a cruiser. > These are the first BS26 hull building pics I see , > combined with that simple realy fast origami building > method [ I looked at the video more than once ] > it is the perfect combo for amateur build. >  > Keep me posted > Old Ben >  >   > ------------------------------------------------------------------ >  Old Ben  >  You were asking about keels and interior and I'm not 100% desided >  yet, I am thinking about a single keel, on the 26 the keels are the >  same size wheather you use one or two, so if I use two theres a lot >  more weted surface area and only about a foot deferance in draft. >  Inside Im thinking large V berth forward then wrap around couch >  with drop leaf table atached to compression post,small galley port >  small head starboard then a couple quarter berths with drop boards >  to use as sea births and no inboard engine, removeable water tank >  where engine would be. hope I can fit it in like that but dont know >  till I can get inside and start measureing things out. >  The mast, It will not be wood, we had a saying in the race >  club, "theres the ones that have broke and the ones that will   brake"  >  as you can tell Im not a fan for wood mast, probably end up useing >  aluminum. I am open for any sugestions on the interior. >  Well take care >  Tom |
9609|9609|2005-11-17 23:32:50|SHANE ROTHWELL|Re: Outboard aboard|The old 26' Thunderbirds had a very slick simple system for o/b's with a hull hatch you put in place with the engine up. Like the proverbial off a shovel & way over sailed, but what a gas! Cruised up the coast in one for 6 weeks in '82.  If you could combine this with Alex's idea of a sliding mounts in one of the cockpit seats mounted just fwd of wherer the transom (thus rudder) will be so as not to mix up the 2 of em (rudder might win..). So what if it's offset to one side, compensate for it on the helm. with fuel you can carry on 26' your not going to be spending that many hours a puttin'.you'd give up a bit of foot room in one of your 1/4 berths but would have a helluva slick system provided your engine when raised was hidden, lockable & dry.   Just hope you like working on outboards cuz they don't seem to like salt.   Shane   	  	 		 __________________________________________________________  Find your next car at http://autos.yahoo.ca|
9610|9583|2005-11-17 23:33:55|aaron riis|Re: Swain 26 opinions|Hi, Tom, my name is Aaron, I'm building a 26 single keel. I'd like to correct that the single and twin keels are not the same.  Brent sent me the plans for the singlekeel.  Aaron --- tom <tazmann@...> wrote:   > Hello Old Ben >  That would be a nice system kept in the center of > the boat but if its  > offset to clear rudder I think it would take up a > lot of cockpit space. What  > I was thinking was to cut the transom about 15"wide > and 18" deep  and the  > engine would mount directly to transom with a splash > tray built inside. the  > splash tray would be about 15" long and the top > would be flush with cockpit  > seats. then one can reach everything sitting in > cockpit without having to  > hang over transom to shift or start it > Tom > ----- Original Message -----  > From: "Puck III" <ben_azo@...> > To: <origamiboats@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2005 2:04 AM > Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Swain 26 opinions >  >  > > Hi Tom , I just uploaded 3 pics : outboardlifter > and drascombe1 + 2 > > in Ben's stuff filealbum in the Files of > origamiboats2 > > the Drascombe system is made for a smaller boat > but the system is > > as simple as the SeaSkiff system , where the > heavyer 40hp tilts > > easely cause it's a safety when you hit an > underwater object. > > The idea is the hole in the hull stay's open and > continues > > in the transom , easy exit of any waterbuild-up > inside the hole > > in the hull [ racers remove the outboard and have > a fill-in piece > > to counter that waterbuild up cause the afthend of > any hole act > > as a serious brake ] > > > > The classic usual prop [ collapsable sailprop if > you can ] > > used in the classic direct drive is the simpelest > instalation. > > > > You can aliment any electric engine , with any > explosion engine > > used as a generator [ this is done on racers for > better > > weightdistribution ] any little dieselgenerator or > gasgenerator > > will be less heavy than the batterybank needed for > a total > > electric system except if you only need very > limited time use > > [ the batery could be empty when you need the > power ,I use an > > electric bowthruster with a separate battery and I > know :-) > > > > As usual a pic is better than many words . > > > > "Just have a look and judge for yourself." > > is how I refer to your pretty pics in > OrigamiPlyBoatDesign. > > Succes with all the options faced when building > :-) > > > > Old Ben > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III" > <ben_azo@h...> wrote: > >> > >> Hi Tom > >> An option to consider , certainly would be to > >> mount the engine in the boat , so the shaft and > prop can > >> be easely raised thru an opening in the transom, > >> easy to clair the prop when you have > >> to take a line out , and sure a garantee no > corrosion ,when > >> you leave the boat moored with the added > advantage of no > >> drag when sailing. > >> I have build some Simon's SeaSkiffs with 40 hp > longschaft > >> and it works great. > >> All you have to do is to offcenter the motor > enough , > >> so shaft and prop do not touch the rudder when > raised. > >> Your boat will do with a 15hp longshaft pusher , > >> you could look for an old SeaGull if you do not > >> have an engine allready . > >> > >> Old Ben > >> > >> > >> --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "tazmannusa" > <tazmann@i...> > >> wrote: > >> > > >> > Hello All > >> >   I am looking for opinions on the mounting of > an outboard on the > >> > transom. all the sailboats Ive had have > brackets attached to > >> transom > >> > and its pain to reach when its down and > running. Ive sailed with > > a > >> > freind on his boat and he had an engine well on > one side of the > >> > transom and it worked out real nice. What I am > thinking about is > >> > putting an engine well on the 26 but Im not > sure if it would look > >> > right with the way the transom is shaped. any > ideas or thoughts > > on > >> the > >> > idea? > >> > Tom > >> > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to:   > origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:  > > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > >  >  >     		  __________________________________  Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click. http://farechase.yahoo.com|
9611|9611|2005-11-18 00:59:07|josh_894|Origami Construction in the San Francisco area?|Hi guys Does anyone know of a boat construction (Origami style) that is near  the San Francisco area. Tom mentioned that he's building his 26 in  Yettem which is about 3.5 hrs away.  If anyone knows of a boat being constructed that is in closer I would  like to take a look at it if possible and perhaps get a better feel of  the process and details.  Thanks  Josh|
9612|9583|2005-11-18 01:07:19|Puck III|Re: Swain 26 opinions|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, aaron riis <aaronriis@y...> wrote:  > >  > Hi, Tom, my name is Aaron, I'm building a 26 single > keel. I'd like to correct that the single and twin > keels are not the same.  Brent sent me the plans for > the singlekeel. >  > Aaron   Hi Aaron , any building pics you could post ?? I sure am interested and I'd love to see them.  Succes with the building  Old Ben|
9613|9583|2005-11-18 02:18:53|tom|Re: Swain 26 opinions|Hello Aaron  My plans show top view of keels with demensions and say single or twin so I  emailed Brent directly to confirm  and he emailed back and said they were  exactly the same. Whats your plan showing is the single bigger? Tom  ----- Original Message -----  From: "aaron riis" <aaronriis@...> To: <origamiboats@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2005 8:33 PM Subject: Re: [origamiboats] Re: Swain 26 opinions   > > Hi, Tom, my name is Aaron, I'm building a 26 single > keel. I'd like to correct that the single and twin > keels are not the same.  Brent sent me the plans for > the singlekeel. > > Aaron > --- tom <tazmann@...> wrote: > >> Hello Old Ben >>  That would be a nice system kept in the center of >> the boat but if its >> offset to clear rudder I think it would take up a >> lot of cockpit space. What >> I was thinking was to cut the transom about 15"wide >> and 18" deep  and the >> engine would mount directly to transom with a splash >> tray built inside. the >> splash tray would be about 15" long and the top >> would be flush with cockpit >> seats. then one can reach everything sitting in >> cockpit without having to >> hang over transom to shift or start it >> Tom >> ----- Original Message -----  >> From: "Puck III" <ben_azo@...> >> To: <origamiboats@yahoogroups.com> >> Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2005 2:04 AM >> Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Swain 26 opinions >> >> >> > Hi Tom , I just uploaded 3 pics : outboardlifter >> and drascombe1 + 2 >> > in Ben's stuff filealbum in the Files of >> origamiboats2 >> > the Drascombe system is made for a smaller boat >> but the system is >> > as simple as the SeaSkiff system , where the >> heavyer 40hp tilts >> > easely cause it's a safety when you hit an >> underwater object. >> > The idea is the hole in the hull stay's open and >> continues >> > in the transom , easy exit of any waterbuild-up >> inside the hole >> > in the hull [ racers remove the outboard and have >> a fill-in piece >> > to counter that waterbuild up cause the afthend of >> any hole act >> > as a serious brake ] >> > >> > The classic usual prop [ collapsable sailprop if >> you can ] >> > used in the classic direct drive is the simpelest >> instalation. >> > >> > You can aliment any electric engine , with any >> explosion engine >> > used as a generator [ this is done on racers for >> better >> > weightdistribution ] any little dieselgenerator or >> gasgenerator >> > will be less heavy than the batterybank needed for >> a total >> > electric system except if you only need very >> limited time use >> > [ the batery could be empty when you need the >> power ,I use an >> > electric bowthruster with a separate battery and I >> know :-) >> > >> > As usual a pic is better than many words . >> > >> > "Just have a look and judge for yourself." >> > is how I refer to your pretty pics in >> OrigamiPlyBoatDesign. >> > Succes with all the options faced when building >> :-) >> > >> > Old Ben >> > >> > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III" >> <ben_azo@h...> wrote: >> >> >> >> Hi Tom >> >> An option to consider , certainly would be to >> >> mount the engine in the boat , so the shaft and >> prop can >> >> be easely raised thru an opening in the transom, >> >> easy to clair the prop when you have >> >> to take a line out , and sure a garantee no >> corrosion ,when >> >> you leave the boat moored with the added >> advantage of no >> >> drag when sailing. >> >> I have build some Simon's SeaSkiffs with 40 hp >> longschaft >> >> and it works great. >> >> All you have to do is to offcenter the motor >> enough , >> >> so shaft and prop do not touch the rudder when >> raised. >> >> Your boat will do with a 15hp longshaft pusher , >> >> you could look for an old SeaGull if you do not >> >> have an engine allready . >> >> >> >> Old Ben >> >> >> >> >> >> --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "tazmannusa" >> <tazmann@i...> >> >> wrote: >> >> > >> >> > Hello All >> >> >   I am looking for opinions on the mounting of >> an outboard on the >> >> > transom. all the sailboats Ive had have >> brackets attached to >> >> transom >> >> > and its pain to reach when its down and >> running. Ive sailed with >> > a >> >> > freind on his boat and he had an engine well on >> one side of the >> >> > transom and it worked out real nice. What I am >> thinking about is >> >> > putting an engine well on the 26 but Im not >> sure if it would look >> >> > right with the way the transom is shaped. any >> ideas or thoughts >> > on >> >> the >> >> > idea? >> >> > Tom >> >> > >> >> >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > To Post a message, send it to: >> origamiboats@yahoogroups.com >> > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: >> > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com >> > Yahoo! Groups Links >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> >> > > > > > __________________________________ > Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click. > http://farechase.yahoo.com > > > > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:  > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > |
9614|9583|2005-11-18 08:22:49|blueiceicle|Re: Swain 26 opinions|Hi Tom  Nice work.  I was wondering how you found plate so cheap? Are you  sandblasting later?  I read your post on welding your hull plates together. Curious if you  had any  distorion problems. Im assuming you went with the 10g plate.    Im hoping to start my 26-28ft this spring , im considering doing the  same and using smaller plates for the hull. Time i have, extra money  not so much. lol  Happy building.    Jesse|
9615|9615|2005-11-18 08:26:43|kingsknight4life|Costa vida, kobella and others|Hi Bev and I are in the finishing stages of mocking up our interior and  would really like to look at the inside of some other boats. We have  seen some beautiful boats on here and in person but are always looking  to view more. We live in Duncan but would gladly drive to visit you.  If you're interested please e-mail me at <wildcatbjj@...>  thanks Rowland and Bev.|
9616|9616|2005-11-18 09:27:20|joe framer|contacting  Brent|Hi everybody,  I have tried to e-mail brent at his hotmail address but haven't gotten a response. Alex, maybe you can help me. I have lost my copy of brents book. ( Alex, the video is awsome nice to see a real craftsman at work) I need to know how much US $ for the book and a set of plans for the 31' and how does Brent prefer to be paid. can he take paypal????    Karl   in North Carolina      		 __________________________________  Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click. http://farechase.yahoo.com|
9617|9583|2005-11-18 10:28:18|tom|Re: Swain 26 opinions|Hello Jesse and thankyou  As far as distorsion, not bad you have to be carefull though. I found you  only want to weld about a 1-1/2" long welds every foot or so and reverse the  direction on every other weld and let them cool %100 before welding more as  far as cutting I ues oxegen accetline tourch with triple 000 tip keeping the  blue flame about 1/2" away, angle tourch about 15degrees toward the  direction your cutting and move pretty fast, keeps distortion to a minumum.  Im more conserned about the cabin and decking, there 12gage might get a  little tricky.  After doing this one I would have to say its well worth the extra money to  buy full lenth sheets if you can, but thats my opinion.  I didnt have the option to buy preprimed steel here so I have to sandblast  and Im not looking forward to that.  Are you going to expand the pattern 10% to get 28ft with about 9ft beam?  and if so do you still use 10gage or do you have to go a little thicker? Tom   ----- Original Message -----  From: "blueiceicle" <tunagouda@...> To: <origamiboats@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, November 18, 2005 5:22 AM Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Swain 26 opinions   > Hi Tom > > Nice work.  I was wondering how you found plate so cheap? Are you > sandblasting later? > > I read your post on welding your hull plates together. Curious if you > had any  distorion problems. Im assuming you went with the 10g plate. > > Im hoping to start my 26-28ft this spring , im considering doing the > same and using smaller plates for the hull. Time i have, extra money > not so much. lol > > Happy building. > > Jesse > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:  > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > |
9618|9616|2005-11-18 10:34:49|tom|Re: contacting  Brent|Karl ,Try this address I dont think he has hotmail anymore  brentswain38@...  ----- Original Message -----  From: "joe framer" <t_framer@...> To: <origamiboats@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, November 18, 2005 6:27 AM Subject: [origamiboats] contacting Brent   > Hi everybody, > > I have tried to e-mail brent at his hotmail address > but haven't gotten a response. Alex, maybe you can > help me. I have lost my copy of brents book. ( Alex, > the video is awsome nice to see a real craftsman at > work) I need to know how much US $ for the book and a > set of plans for the 31' and how does Brent prefer to > be paid. can he take paypal????    Karl   in North > Carolina > > > > > > __________________________________ > Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click. > http://farechase.yahoo.com > > > > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:  > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > |
9619|9536|2005-11-18 12:09:35|khooper_fboats|Re: Steel cutting skillsaw|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Carl Volkwein <carlvolkwein@y...> wrote:  > > I used to make "canopies" out of conduit, I'd take short pieces of  one size bigger conduit, so the smaller pieces would slide inside  1.5 inch (O.D.) chain link fence rail fits nicely inside 1.5 inch (I.D.) conduit. Good luck welding the rail but you can stick weld the conduit if you turn down the electrons, I've done it and I'm a very poor welder. Easy to cut 45 degree angles with a zip disk or whatever. Drill holes in the conduit and weld nuts over them as you say, we build canopies this way all the time.  For grommets, don't get them at the hw store where they only come in expensive kits, get them in the fabric section at the Wal-mart. The grommets are cheap by the bag and the setters are available as well. The grommets will probably rust pretty quick, better varnish them or something. =^)  I dont know if 1/2" conduit fits into anything though. The original poster wanted to do this with 1/2".|
9620|9608|2005-11-18 12:39:38|tom|Re: Swain 26 Options|Hello Old Ben  I like the picture youre posting, gives one things to think about. Thankyou  As far as the cabin structure I think I will keep it as designed has a nice  classic look and Im afaraid if I change it would come out looking like doo  doo and I only want to do it once, it wouldnt be the first time I built  something, stood back, doesnt look rite and cut it off and start again.  I think the max trailer highth is 13ft  and looking at the plans a single  keel would be about11ft from bottom of keel to top of cabin so setting on  trailer with mast laying down above cabin would be more than 13ft so I may  end up going twin keels for that reason.  The little boom on my truck allready grunts and grones lifting just the  hull , when the time comes to lift it up to put on trailer I have a A frame  hoist that I built when I painted the bottom of my other boat so I am  hopeing with a frame at one end and boom at the other I can lift it  finished.  Rollers on the trailer are a no no in my book , I have never seen any that  hold up, shafts bend and rubber splits in a short order and the big rollers  you see that are used instead of bunks or pads allways seem to leave hooks  in the hull after a couple years. I beleave youre better off putting trailer  deeper in water float the boat all the way to the V block on front then the  winch just holds it there. then if your trailer is set up right when you  pull forward the boat sets down on bunks and everything is were you want it  with no scratched paint. Tom  ----- Original Message -----  From: "Puck III" <ben_azo@...> To: <origamiboats@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2005 5:36 PM Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Swain 26 Options   > > Hi Tom ,options options options.....thats what you are facing, > so again I posted some pics in the Options file in the > Ben's stuff file in Origamiboats2 . > >> You mentioned earlyer you wanted to trail your boat home >> regularly to save on mooringcosts and thats a good idea >> cause you own the truck. >> >> Trailor : >> Think about the regular trailingjob when looking at the >> options for the appendixes as keel(s) rudder(s) and engine. >> I saw the crane on the truck but could she lift a finished >> boat upon a trailor ? so you must consider winding the boat >> upon a usual boattrailor with a frontwich. >> Where will you install the rollers to support the hull >> while winding ? >> [some appendixes are ideal for a flatbottom trailor] >> >> Keel(s) options : >> - single keel >> - twinkeel >> - more profiled keels with bulbs [see twinkeelarticle] >> - center or side-boards >> - short profilekeels combined with side-boards >>   [eventualy combined with double rudder ] >> >> Stability : >> To be able to make a good choice about the keels, >> one has to consider form and end stability by looking at the >> imerged volumes , superstructurs and wheelhouse included. >> The placement of permanent [as ballast] and >> variable [as tanks] weights is crucial . >> This is done by testing the design , superstructure volumes >> included in a real stability >> program [see navaldesigner stability pic ] >> >> Superstructure : >> see more than one pic in the photosection from : >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/seabull/ >> >> Interiordesign : >> one can try to optimise that for the special needs >> for the owner and its crew . the cost to build a >> well thought out interior is the same as for a fiasco. >> [see http://cruisenews.net/images/Puck/ >> or Puck 7.77 pic to see what can be done] >> >> Motoroptions : >> leaving all options open for now seems wise to me. >> >> When looking over the pretty pics you posted I >> can't but admire Brent's Swain simple and fine hull >> design [ nothing is more difficult ] , I particularly >> like the full afth-sections with the wide stern and >> think she must have a slippery hull for a cruiser. >> These are the first BS26 hull building pics I see , >> combined with that simple realy fast origami building >> method [ I looked at the video more than once ] >> it is the perfect combo for amateur build. >> >> Keep me posted >> Old Ben >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------ >>  Old Ben >>  You were asking about keels and interior and I'm not 100% desided >>  yet, I am thinking about a single keel, on the 26 the keels are the >>  same size wheather you use one or two, so if I use two theres a lot >>  more weted surface area and only about a foot deferance in draft. >>  Inside Im thinking large V berth forward then wrap around couch >>  with drop leaf table atached to compression post,small galley port >>  small head starboard then a couple quarter berths with drop boards >>  to use as sea births and no inboard engine, removeable water tank >>  where engine would be. hope I can fit it in like that but dont know >>  till I can get inside and start measureing things out. >>  The mast, It will not be wood, we had a saying in the race >>  club, "theres the ones that have broke and the ones that will > brake" >>  as you can tell Im not a fan for wood mast, probably end up useing >>  aluminum. I am open for any sugestions on the interior. >>  Well take care >>  Tom > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:  > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > |
9621|9615|2005-11-18 12:55:03|Charles Sollitt|Re: Costa vida, kobella and others|Rowland,       I own the Kobella and keep it on E dock in Genoa bay. I'll be on the boat during the second weekend in December and you are welcome to drop by for a look. Contact me at Charles.Sollitt@... and we can share phone numbers , schedules, etc.   Chuck    _____    From: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com [mailto:origamiboats@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of kingsknight4life Sent: Friday, November 18, 2005 5:26 AM To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Subject: [origamiboats] Costa vida, kobella and others   Hi Bev and I are in the finishing stages of mocking up our interior and  would really like to look at the inside of some other boats. We have  seen some beautiful boats on here and in person but are always looking  to view more. We live in Duncan but would gladly drive to visit you.  If you're interested please e-mail me at <wildcatbjj@...>  thanks Rowland and Bev.      To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com       _____    YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS    	 *	 Visit your group "origamiboats <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats> " on the web.     *	 To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:  origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <mailto:origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>      *	 Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .      _____       [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]|
9622|9616|2005-11-18 15:57:24|kingsknight4life|Re: contacting  Brent|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "tom" <tazmann@i...> wrote:  > > Karl ,Try this address I dont think he has hotmail anymore  > ........... > > > > I have tried to e-mail brent at his hotmail address > > but haven't gotten a response. ..... can he take paypal????      Karl   in North  > > Carolina > > > >  Karl Hopefully this will help. Brent can be contacted at his hotmail  address, he just doesn't check it daily as he uses libraries to log  in. Be patient I'm sure he'll respond as soon as he's able. I know he  doesn't take paypal, I'd bet he prefers cash but I'll let him answer.  lol. He'll probably see your message and contact you. Good luck. Rowland|
9623|9555|2005-11-18 18:06:26|Richard Till|Re: best pacific weather|Ted, thanks for the tips.  Looks like a composite of first hand local  information from the people out there and technical info from maps etc. is  the way to go.  Just got news of a local couple we watched sail away--they  experienced difficult conditions off the Oregon coast en-route to Mexico.  I  am waiting to discover how much damage they sustained.  Seems they had to  put in to California.  rt     >From: "edward_stoneuk" <tedstone@...> >Reply-To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com >To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com >Subject: [origamiboats] Re: best pacific weather >Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2005 10:08:33 -0000 > >Hi Richy, >I think that there are books and software listing the currents, >prevailing winds and weather patterns of the oceans.  A troll through >Google or a marine bookstore should find one or two.  Or perhaps join >one of the long distance cruising clubs.  I am not at that stage yet. >Good luck. >Regards, >Ted > > >   _________________________________________________________________ Take charge with a pop-up guard built on patented Microsoft� SmartScreen  Technology.  http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines    Start enjoying all the benefits of MSN� Premium right now and get the  first two months FREE*.|
9624|9609|2005-11-18 18:18:31|audeojude|Re: Outboard aboard|-I have only used outboards on the 21 to 24 ft sailboats that I have. The engines are offset to the side about half way between the rudder and  edge of transom side. One on starboard for a 23.5 boat and one on port for a 21 ft boat. they definatly will make it hard to go in a straight line if you just point them forward and go.. however  :) all you have to do is take and turn the engine a degree or two to compensate for this.. you can adjust it so that you can take your hand off the tiller and hold a straight course. you can even compensate for a steady current or wind that you are going at an angle to this way.  scott carle|
9625|9383|2005-11-18 21:12:25|bert andjan|Re: Swain 26|I'm enjoying all the chatter over the BS 26...  I'm 6'4.5" tall and wonder how much headroom there is under the pilot house?   Could you stretch and tweek it a few inches by lowering the floors?  Increasing the crown of the roof?  ???  Another great engine for the 26 might be the Sabb 10 horse, hand startable with controllable pitch prop.  It's a heavy but I'm told  very reliable hunk of iron.  Don't know if they still make them.  Tom, you mentioned the twin keels being a foot less than the single keel in draft.   What is the draft of the twins?  With enough sail area I'm sure you could overcome the extra wetted surface and gain the advantages of the lessened draft, and upright position when the tide goes out and she sits on her feet.  Properly designed twins point well enough for cruising.  I built a John Letcher Aleutka and she pointed very nicely with the twin keels.  Bert Eggers in snowy Michigan                         		 __________________________________  Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click. http://farechase.yahoo.com|
9626|9583|2005-11-19 01:03:07|aaron riis|Re: Swain 26 opinions|Tom, Yes it is bigger. The Keel plan that Brent sent me was a little over eight feet long,  six feet at the bottom  twelve inches wide at the top and ten at the bottom.  It drew one foot eight inches at the front and two foot four at the back from the bottom to where it meets the hull.  the leading pipe was a four inch sch 80 split. It was quarter inch plate. With this keel Im expecting to get around 35 gallons of tankage.  Aaron  --- tom <tazmann@...> wrote:   > Hello Aaron >  My plans show top view of keels with demensions and > say single or twin so I  > emailed Brent directly to confirm  and he emailed > back and said they were  > exactly the same. > Whats your plan showing is the single bigger? > Tom > ----- Original Message -----  > From: "aaron riis" <aaronriis@...> > To: <origamiboats@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2005 8:33 PM > Subject: Re: [origamiboats] Re: Swain 26 opinions >  >  > > > > Hi, Tom, my name is Aaron, I'm building a 26 > single > > keel. I'd like to correct that the single and twin > > keels are not the same.  Brent sent me the plans > for > > the singlekeel. > > > > Aaron > > --- tom <tazmann@...> wrote: > > > >> Hello Old Ben > >>  That would be a nice system kept in the center > of > >> the boat but if its > >> offset to clear rudder I think it would take up a > >> lot of cockpit space. What > >> I was thinking was to cut the transom about > 15"wide > >> and 18" deep  and the > >> engine would mount directly to transom with a > splash > >> tray built inside. the > >> splash tray would be about 15" long and the top > >> would be flush with cockpit > >> seats. then one can reach everything sitting in > >> cockpit without having to > >> hang over transom to shift or start it > >> Tom > >> ----- Original Message -----  > >> From: "Puck III" <ben_azo@...> > >> To: <origamiboats@yahoogroups.com> > >> Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2005 2:04 AM > >> Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Swain 26 opinions > >> > >> > >> > Hi Tom , I just uploaded 3 pics : > outboardlifter > >> and drascombe1 + 2 > >> > in Ben's stuff filealbum in the Files of > >> origamiboats2 > >> > the Drascombe system is made for a smaller boat > >> but the system is > >> > as simple as the SeaSkiff system , where the > >> heavyer 40hp tilts > >> > easely cause it's a safety when you hit an > >> underwater object. > >> > The idea is the hole in the hull stay's open > and > >> continues > >> > in the transom , easy exit of any waterbuild-up > >> inside the hole > >> > in the hull [ racers remove the outboard and > have > >> a fill-in piece > >> > to counter that waterbuild up cause the afthend > of > >> any hole act > >> > as a serious brake ] > >> > > >> > The classic usual prop [ collapsable sailprop > if > >> you can ] > >> > used in the classic direct drive is the > simpelest > >> instalation. > >> > > >> > You can aliment any electric engine , with any > >> explosion engine > >> > used as a generator [ this is done on racers > for > >> better > >> > weightdistribution ] any little dieselgenerator > or > >> gasgenerator > >> > will be less heavy than the batterybank needed > for > >> a total > >> > electric system except if you only need very > >> limited time use > >> > [ the batery could be empty when you need the > >> power ,I use an > >> > electric bowthruster with a separate battery > and I > >> know :-) > >> > > >> > As usual a pic is better than many words . > >> > > >> > "Just have a look and judge for yourself." > >> > is how I refer to your pretty pics in > >> OrigamiPlyBoatDesign. > >> > Succes with all the options faced when building > >> :-) > >> > > >> > Old Ben > >> > > >> > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III" > >> <ben_azo@h...> wrote: > >> >> > >> >> Hi Tom > >> >> An option to consider , certainly would be to > >> >> mount the engine in the boat , so the shaft > and > >> prop can > >> >> be easely raised thru an opening in the > transom, > >> >> easy to clair the prop when you have > >> >> to take a line out , and sure a garantee no > >> corrosion ,when > >> >> you leave the boat moored with the added > >> advantage of no > >> >> drag when sailing. > >> >> I have build some Simon's SeaSkiffs with 40 hp > >> longschaft > >> >> and it works great. > >> >> All you have to do is to offcenter the motor > >> enough , > >> >> so shaft and prop do not touch the rudder when > >> raised. > >> >> Your boat will do with a 15hp longshaft pusher > , > >> >> you could look for an old SeaGull if you do > not > >> >> have an engine allready . > >> >> > >> >> Old Ben > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, > "tazmannusa" > >> <tazmann@i...> > >> >> wrote: > >> >> > > >> >> > Hello All > >> >> >   I am looking for opinions on the mounting > of > >> an outboard on the > >> >> > transom. all the sailboats Ive had have > >> brackets attached to > >> >> transom > >> >> > and its pain to reach when its down and > >> running. Ive sailed with > >> > a > >> >> > freind on his boat and he had an engine well > on > >> one side of the > >> >> > transom and it worked out real nice. What I > am > >> thinking about is > >> >> > putting an engine well on the 26 but Im not > >> sure if it would look > >> >> > right with the way the transom is shaped. > any > >> ideas or thoughts > >> > on > >> >> the > >> >> > idea? > >> >> > Tom > >> >> > > >> >> > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > To Post a message, send it to: > >> origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > >> > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > >> > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > >> > Yahoo! Groups Links > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________ >   === message truncated ===    		 __________________________________  Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click. http://farechase.yahoo.com|
9627|9583|2005-11-19 01:16:08|aaron riis|Re: Swain 26 opinions|Hi, old Ben I will see about posting a pic.  It's still not very close to finishing the boat. If I can get someone to help convert one of my pics into digital, I will post it.  Thanks, Aaron  --- Puck III <ben_azo@...> wrote:   > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, aaron riis > <aaronriis@y...> wrote: > > > >  > > Hi, Tom, my name is Aaron, I'm building a 26 > single > > keel. I'd like to correct that the single and twin > > keels are not the same.  Brent sent me the plans > for > > the singlekeel. > >  > > Aaron >  > Hi Aaron , any building pics you could post ?? > I sure am interested and I'd love to see them. >  > Succes with the building >  > Old Ben >  >  >  >  >     		  __________________________________  Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click. http://farechase.yahoo.com|
9628|9583|2005-11-19 03:05:21|aaron riis|Re: Swain 26 opinions|Old Ben I have submited a pic of my boat under origamiboats 2  Aaron  --- aaron riis <aaronriis@...> wrote:   > Hi, old Ben > I will see about posting a pic.  It's still not very > close to finishing the boat. If I can get someone to > help convert one of my pics into digital, I will > post > it. >  > Thanks, > Aaron >  > --- Puck III <ben_azo@...> wrote: >  > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, aaron riis > > <aaronriis@y...> wrote: > > > > > >  > > > Hi, Tom, my name is Aaron, I'm building a 26 > > single > > > keel. I'd like to correct that the single and > twin > > > keels are not the same.  Brent sent me the plans > > for > > > the singlekeel. > > >  > > > Aaron > >  > > Hi Aaron , any building pics you could post ?? > > I sure am interested and I'd love to see them. > >  > > Succes with the building > >  > > Old Ben > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  >  >  >  > 		 > __________________________________  > Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in > one click. > http://farechase.yahoo.com >     	 		  __________________________________  Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005  http://mail.yahoo.com|
9629|9583|2005-11-19 03:22:24|Puck III|Re: Swain 26 opinions|Thanks a lot Aaron , I realy look forward to see your pics. Regards Old Ben  --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, aaron riis <aaronriis@y...>  wrote:  > > Hi, old Ben > I will see about posting a pic.  It's still not very > close to finishing the boat. If I can get someone to > help convert one of my pics into digital, I will post > it. >  > Thanks, > Aaron >  > --- Puck III <ben_azo@h...> wrote: >  > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, aaron riis > > <aaronriis@y...> wrote: > > > > > >  > > > Hi, Tom, my name is Aaron, I'm building a 26 > > single > > > keel. I'd like to correct that the single and twin > > > keels are not the same.  Brent sent me the plans > > for > > > the singlekeel. > > >  > > > Aaron > >  > > Hi Aaron , any building pics you could post ?? > > I sure am interested and I'd love to see them. > >  > > Succes with the building > >  > > Old Ben > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  >  >  >  > 		 > __________________________________  > Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click. > http://farechase.yahoo.com > |
9630|9583|2005-11-19 03:37:38|Puck III|Re: Swain 26 opinions|Hi Aaron , a real little SHIP , that's what she allready looks like .I just saved that pic cause the more I see the BS 26 , the more I think she realy stands out of all the other boats in that size . Keep us posted please , succes with the building. Old Ben  --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, aaron riis <aaronriis@y...>  wrote:  > > Old Ben > I have submited a pic of my boat under origamiboats 2 >  > Aaron >  > --- aaron riis <aaronriis@y...> wrote: >  > > Hi, old Ben > > I will see about posting a pic.  It's still not very > > close to finishing the boat. If I can get someone to > > help convert one of my pics into digital, I will > > post > > it. > >  > > Thanks, > > Aaron > >  > > --- Puck III <ben_azo@h...> wrote: > >  > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, aaron riis > > > <aaronriis@y...> wrote: > > > > > > > >  > > > > Hi, Tom, my name is Aaron, I'm building a 26 > > > single > > > > keel. I'd like to correct that the single and > > twin > > > > keels are not the same.  Brent sent me the plans > > > for > > > > the singlekeel. > > > >  > > > > Aaron > > >  > > > Hi Aaron , any building pics you could post ?? > > > I sure am interested and I'd love to see them. > > >  > > > Succes with the building > > >  > > > Old Ben > > >  > > >  > > >  > > >  > > >  > >  > >  > >  > > 		 > > __________________________________  > > Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in > > one click. > > http://farechase.yahoo.com > >  >  >  >  > 	 > 		 > __________________________________  > Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005  > http://mail.yahoo.com > |
9631|9383|2005-11-19 03:55:58|Puck III|Re: Swain 26|Hi Bert ,  --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, bert andjan <bertandjan@y...>  wrote:  > > I'm enjoying all the chatter over the BS 26...  I'm > 6'4.5" tall and wonder how much headroom there is > under the pilot house?   Could you stretch and tweek > it a few inches by lowering the floors?  Increasing > the crown of the roof?  ???   I realy see no problem att all to adapt that to your size , just have a look at the Ben's stuff Files in Origamiboats2   >  > Another great engine for the 26 might be the Sabb 10 > horse, hand startable with controllable pitch prop.  > It's a heavy but I'm told  very reliable hunk of iron. >  Don't know if they still make them.   A rumor is the production is to be restarted in China, for use on small fishingtrawlers, I agree with you it's a great engine cpp combination . I will keep you posted.  >  > Tom, you mentioned the twin keels being a foot less > than the single keel in draft.   What is the draft of > the twins?  With enough sail area I'm sure you could > overcome the extra wetted surface and gain the > advantages of the lessened draft, and upright position > when the tide goes out and she sits on her feet.  > Properly designed twins point well enough for > cruising.  I built a John Letcher Aleutka and she > pointed very nicely with the twin keels. >  > Bert Eggers in snowy Michigan   More high performance twin-keel boats come on the market every day , with the same or ofthen better performance than the classic single keel.  Old Ben in Belgium :-)  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  > 		 > __________________________________  > Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click. > http://farechase.yahoo.com > |
9632|9383|2005-11-19 08:33:47|Bill Crawford|Re: Swain 26|Good day, I too have been interested in the chatter about the 26, tell me where can I see photographs and descriptions. I cant seem to find them.  Sincerly, Bill Crawford On Sat, 19 Nov 2005 08:54:14 -0000, "Puck III" <ben_azo@...> wrote :   > <html><body> >  >  > <tt> > Hi Bert ,<BR> > <BR> > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, bert andjan <bertandjan@y...> <BR> > wrote:<BR> > ><BR> > > I'm enjoying all the chatter over the BS 26...  I'm<BR> > > 6'4.5" tall and wonder how much headroom there is<BR> > > under the pilot house?   Could you stretch and tweek<BR> > > it a few inches by lowering the floors?  Increasing<BR> > > the crown of the roof?  ???<BR> > <BR> > I realy see no problem att all to adapt that to<BR> > your size , just have a look at the<BR> > Ben's stuff Files in Origamiboats2 <BR> > > <BR> > > Another great engine for the 26 might be the Sabb 10<BR> > > horse, hand startable with controllable pitch prop. <BR> > > It's a heavy but I'm told  very reliable hunk of iron.<BR> > >  Don't know if they still make them.<BR> > <BR> > A rumor is the production is to be restarted in China,<BR> > for use on small fishingtrawlers, I agree with you<BR> > it's a great engine cpp combination . I will keep you posted.<BR> > > <BR> > > Tom, you mentioned the twin keels being a foot less<BR> > > than the single keel in draft.   What is the draft of<BR> > > the twins?  With enough sail area I'm sure you could<BR> > > overcome the extra wetted surface and gain the<BR> > > advantages of the lessened draft, and upright position<BR> > > when the tide goes out and she sits on her feet. <BR> > > Properly designed twins point well enough for<BR> > > cruising.  I built a John Letcher Aleutka and she<BR> > > pointed very nicely with the twin keels.<BR> > > <BR> > > Bert Eggers in snowy Michigan<BR> > <BR> > More high performance twin-keel boats come on the<BR> > market every day , with the same or ofthen better<BR> > performance than the classic single keel.<BR> > <BR> > Old Ben in Belgium :-)<BR> > > <BR> > > <BR> > > <BR> > > <BR> > > <BR> > > <BR> > > <BR> > > <BR> > > <BR> > > <BR> > > <BR> > > <BR> > > <BR> > > <BR> > > <BR> > > <BR> > > <BR> > > <BR> > > <BR> > > <BR> > > <BR> > > <BR> > > <BR> > > <BR> > >             <BR> > > __________________________________ <BR> > > Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click.<BR> > > <a href="http://farechase.yahoo.com">http://farechase.yahoo.com</a><BR> > ><BR> > <BR> > <BR> > <BR> > <BR> > </tt> >  >  > <!-- |**|begin egp html banner|**| --> >  > <br><br> > <tt> > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com<BR> > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:  origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com</tt>  > <br><br> >  > <!-- |**|end egp html banner|**| --> >  >  >      > <!-- |**|begin egp html banner|**| --> >  >   <br><br> >   <div style="width:500px; text-align:right; margin-bottom:1px;  color:#909090;">  >     <tt>SPONSORED LINKS</tt> >   </div> >   <table bgcolor=#e0ecee cellspacing="13" cellpadding="0" width=500px>         >                   <tr valign=top> >             <td style="width:25%;"> >         <tt><a  href="http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=British+columbia+canada&w1=British+columbia+canada&w2=Vancouver+island&w3=Yacht&w4=Victoria+bc&c=4&s=79&.sig=9R67WCgMr5OvBLa-xHHyGA">British columbia canada</a></tt>  >       </td> >                       <td style="width:25%;"> >         <tt><a  href="http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Vancouver+island&w1=British+columbia+canada&w2=Vancouver+island&w3=Yacht&w4=Victoria+bc&c=4&s=79&.sig=yL5WOtgPnpYAmd1P5N16cw">Vancouver island</a></tt>  >       </td> >                       <td style="width:25%;"> >         <tt><a  href="http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Yacht&w1=British+columbia+canada&w2=Vancouver+island&w3=Yacht&w4=Victoria+bc&c=4&s=79&.sig=VvQDFUjkrcc6EJ4xXP0vjg">Yacht</a></tt>  >       </td> >               </tr> >                         <tr valign=top> >             <td style="width:25%;"> >         <tt><a  href="http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Victoria+bc&w1=British+columbia+canada&w2=Vancouver+island&w3=Yacht&w4=Victoria+bc&c=4&s=79&.sig=QTHu1FWCcMWsTCz7vGyGdg">Victoria bc</a></tt>  >       </td> >                     </tr> >       </table>      >    > <!-- |**|end egp html banner|**| --> >  >  >  > <!-- |**|begin egp html banner|**| --> >  > <br> >   <div style="text-align:center; color:#909090; width:500px;"> >   <hr style="border-bottom:1px; width:500px; text-align:left;"> >   <tt>YAHOO! 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9633|9583|2005-11-19 09:18:53|tom|Re: Swain 26 opinions|Hello Aaron  Youre keel is about 2ft longer and quite a bit fatter, maybee thats an  option from brent to run the internal keel tanks. I looked at your picture  and it looks great, looks like you raised the trunk cabin some and then the  pilot house, the lines look right on, good job.  Did you build it 26LOA or did you expand it a little? There seems to be a lot of interest in the 26 and if you could post more  pictures I think people would realy injoy them, myself included.  Last weekend when I was pulling the hulls together a good friend stoped by  and he happens to be the Hunter sailboat sales rep here in central  California, Well he looked it over and helped me pull the bow section  together,then he ask hows it going to sail,and I didnt have a clue, Then he  said, Lot of work and you dont know how she's going to sail. Well he had a  good point. So if anyone out there reading this has sailed a 26 please give  us some feedback on how they sail? Tom  ----- Original Message -----  From: "aaron riis" <aaronriis@...> To: <origamiboats@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, November 18, 2005 10:03 PM Subject: Re: [origamiboats] Re: Swain 26 opinions   > Tom, > Yes it is bigger. The Keel plan that Brent sent me was > a little over eight feet long,  six feet at the bottom > twelve inches wide at the top and ten at the bottom. > It drew one foot eight inches at the front and two > foot four at the back from the bottom to where it > meets the hull.  the leading pipe was a four inch sch > 80 split. It was quarter inch plate. With this keel Im > expecting to get around 35 gallons of tankage. > > Aaron > > --- tom <tazmann@...> wrote: > >> Hello Aaron >>  My plans show top view of keels with demensions and >> say single or twin so I >> emailed Brent directly to confirm  and he emailed >> back and said they were >> exactly the same. >> Whats your plan showing is the single bigger? >> Tom >> ----- Original Message -----  >> From: "aaron riis" <aaronriis@...> >> To: <origamiboats@yahoogroups.com> >> Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2005 8:33 PM >> Subject: Re: [origamiboats] Re: Swain 26 opinions >> >> >> > >> > Hi, Tom, my name is Aaron, I'm building a 26 >> single >> > keel. I'd like to correct that the single and twin >> > keels are not the same.  Brent sent me the plans >> for >> > the singlekeel. >> > |
9634|9383|2005-11-19 09:28:42|tom|Re: Swain 26|Hello Bill  The photos are http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats2/ The photos on the first origamiboats are full Tom  ----- Original Message -----  From: "Bill Crawford" <rowdy@...> To: <origamiboats@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, November 19, 2005 5:33 AM Subject: Re: [origamiboats] Re: Swain 26   >   Good day, I too have been interested in the chatter about the 26, tell  > me > where can I see photographs and descriptions. I cant seem to find them. > Sincerly, Bill Crawford > On Sat, 19 Nov 2005 08:54:14 -0000, "Puck III" <ben_azo@...> wrote  > : > >> <html><body> >> >> >> <tt> >> Hi Bert ,<BR> >> <BR> >> --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, bert andjan <bertandjan@y...>  >> <BR> >> wrote:<BR> >> ><BR> >> > I'm enjoying all the chatter over the BS 26...  I'm<BR> >> > 6'4.5" tall and wonder how much headroom there is<BR> >> > under the pilot house?   Could you stretch and tweek<BR> >> > it a few inches by lowering the floors?  Increasing<BR> >> > the crown of the roof?  ???<BR> >> <BR> >> I realy see no problem att all to adapt that to<BR> >> your size , just have a look at the<BR> >> Ben's stuff Files in Origamiboats2 <BR> >> > <BR> >> > Another great engine for the 26 might be the Sabb 10<BR> >> > horse, hand startable with controllable pitch prop. <BR> >> > It's a heavy but I'm told  very reliable hunk of iron.<BR> >> >  Don't know if they still make them.<BR> >> <BR> >> A rumor is the production is to be restarted in China,<BR> >> for use on small fishingtrawlers, I agree with you<BR> >> it's a great engine cpp combination . I will keep you posted.<BR> >> > <BR> >> > Tom, you mentioned the twin keels being a foot less<BR> >> > than the single keel in draft.   What is the draft of<BR> >> > the twins?  With enough sail area I'm sure you could<BR> >> > overcome the extra wetted surface and gain the<BR> >> > advantages of the lessened draft, and upright position<BR> >> > when the tide goes out and she sits on her feet. <BR> >> > Properly designed twins point well enough for<BR> >> > cruising.  I built a John Letcher Aleutka and she<BR> >> > pointed very nicely with the twin keels.<BR> >> > <BR> >> > Bert Eggers in snowy Michigan<BR> >> <BR> >> More high performance twin-keel boats come on the<BR> >> market every day , with the same or ofthen better<BR> >> performance than the classic single keel.<BR> >> <BR> >> Old Ben in Belgium :-)<BR> >> > <BR> >> > <BR> >> > <BR> >> > <BR> >> > <BR> >> > <BR> >> > <BR> >> > <BR> >> > <BR> >> > <BR> >> > <BR> >> > <BR> >> > <BR> >> > <BR> >> > <BR> >> > <BR> >> > <BR> >> > <BR> >> > <BR> >> > <BR> >> > <BR> >> > <BR> >> > <BR> >> > <BR> >> >             <BR> >> > __________________________________ <BR> >> > Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click.<BR> >> > <a  >> href="http://farechase.yahoo.com">http://farechase.yahoo.com</a><BR> >> ><BR> >> <BR> >> <BR> >> <BR> >> <BR> >> </tt> >> >> >> <!-- |**|begin egp html banner|**| --> >> >> <br><br> >> <tt> >> To Post a message, send it to:    >> origamiboats@yahoogroups.com<BR> >> To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com</tt> >> <br><br> >> >> <!-- |**|end egp html banner|**| --> >> >> >> >> <!-- |**|begin egp html banner|**| --> >> >>   <br><br> >>   <div style="width:500px; text-align:right; margin-bottom:1px; > color:#909090;"> >>     <tt>SPONSORED LINKS</tt> >>   </div> >>   <table bgcolor=#e0ecee cellspacing="13" cellpadding="0" width=500px> >>                   <tr valign=top> >>             <td style="width:25%;"> >>         <tt><a > href="http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=British+columbia+canada&w1=British+columbia+canada&w2=Vancouver+island&w3=Yacht&w4=Victoria+bc&c=4&s=79&.sig=9R67WCgMr5OvBLa-xHHyGA">British > columbia canada</a></tt> >>       </td> >>                       <td style="width:25%;"> >>         <tt><a > href="http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Vancouver+island&w1=British+columbia+canada&w2=Vancouver+island&w3=Yacht&w4=Victoria+bc&c=4&s=79&.sig=yL5WOtgPnpYAmd1P5N16cw">Vancouver > island</a></tt> >>       </td> >>                       <td style="width:25%;"> >>         <tt><a > href="http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Yacht&w1=British+columbia+canada&w2=Vancouver+island&w3=Yacht&w4=Victoria+bc&c=4&s=79&.sig=VvQDFUjkrcc6EJ4xXP0vjg">Yacht</a></tt> >>       </td> >>               </tr> >>                         <tr valign=top> >>             <td style="width:25%;"> >>         <tt><a > href="http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Victoria+bc&w1=British+columbia+canada&w2=Vancouver+island&w3=Yacht&w4=Victoria+bc&c=4&s=79&.sig=QTHu1FWCcMWsTCz7vGyGdg">Victoria > bc</a></tt> >>       </td> >>                     </tr> >>       </table> >> >> <!-- |**|end egp html banner|**| --> >> >> >> >> <!-- |**|begin egp html banner|**| --> >> >> <br> >>   <div style="text-align:center; color:#909090; width:500px;"> >>   <hr style="border-bottom:1px; width:500px; text-align:left;"> >>   <tt>YAHOO! 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9635|9383|2005-11-19 10:05:41|tom|Re: Swain 26|Hello Bert   Looking at the plans the draft for twin keels is 3ft. As for headroom looks like around 6ft in rear cabin but after looking at  aaron's photo you could raise cabin with no problem to get the headroom you  like.  Theres a lot of pro's and con's on twin keels and  I  am looking at a magor  one a lot of places we sail have shallows, sandbars, lakes go low in middle  of summer,ect. If you do run aground with twin keels your stuck, at least  with a single you usualy can heel the boat over enough to get back off  without trying to find help. just my thoughts on it Tom  ----- Original Message -----  From: "bert andjan" <bertandjan@...> To: <origamiboats@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, November 18, 2005 6:12 PM Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Swain 26   > I'm enjoying all the chatter over the BS 26...  I'm > 6'4.5" tall and wonder how much headroom there is > under the pilot house?   Could you stretch and tweek > it a few inches by lowering the floors?  Increasing > the crown of the roof?  ??? > > Another great engine for the 26 might be the Sabb 10 > horse, hand startable with controllable pitch prop. > It's a heavy but I'm told  very reliable hunk of iron. > Don't know if they still make them. > > Tom, you mentioned the twin keels being a foot less > than the single keel in draft.   What is the draft of > the twins?  With enough sail area I'm sure you could > overcome the extra wetted surface and gain the > advantages of the lessened draft, and upright position > when the tide goes out and she sits on her feet. > Properly designed twins point well enough for > cruising.  I built a John Letcher Aleutka and she > pointed very nicely with the twin keels. > > Bert Eggers in snowy Michigan > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________ > Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click. > http://farechase.yahoo.com > > > > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:  > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > |
9636|9383|2005-11-19 11:22:34|Puck III|Re: Swain 26|Hi Tom , even if the post is adressed to Bert I cant but post some comments I made before in  " message 9608 Swain 26 Options "   --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "tom" <tazmann@i...> wrote: > > Hello Bert >   Looking at the plans the draft for twin keels is 3ft. > As for headroom looks like around 6ft in rear cabin but after  looking at  > aaron's photo you could raise cabin with no problem to get the  headroom you  > like.  There sure are more deckhouse design posibilities than the 2 you mention , Aaron's deckhouse is designed that way to see over the standard superstructures . With a different deckhouse design [ one has to see well over the bow!] respecting the volumes needed for the best stability [ that again is a question of well placed volumes of thin air ]I am sure more than enough headroom can be created for the talest people :-) You only need the headroom where you actualy stand . It is easy to understand the argument when looking at the rollover stability pic made in NavalDesigner .  >  Theres a lot of pro's and con's on twin keels and  I  am looking  at a magor  > one a lot of places we sail have shallows, sandbars, lakes go low  in middle  > of summer,ect. If you do run aground with twin keels your stuck, at  least  > with a single you usualy can heel the boat over enough to get back  off  > without trying to find help. just my thoughts on it > Tom  I can't but agree if you only consider the 2 standard options, I therefore repost some [cause there are much more available] options from message 9608 > Keel(s) options : > - single keel > - twinkeel > - more profiled keels with bulbs [see twinkeelarticle] > - center or side-boards > - short profilekeels combined with side-boards > [eventualy combined with double rudder ]  The strenght of a chain depends upon  the strenght of its weakest link . With boats it's a bit like that with everything. All is much more interrelated than it looks at first site :-)  Keep the ideas flowing , the 26' sure is worth it.  Old Ben   > ----- Original Message -----  > From: "bert andjan" <bertandjan@y...> > To: <origamiboats@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Friday, November 18, 2005 6:12 PM > Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Swain 26 >  >  > > I'm enjoying all the chatter over the BS 26...  I'm > > 6'4.5" tall and wonder how much headroom there is > > under the pilot house?   Could you stretch and tweek > > it a few inches by lowering the floors?  Increasing > > the crown of the roof?  ??? > > > > Another great engine for the 26 might be the Sabb 10 > > horse, hand startable with controllable pitch prop. > > It's a heavy but I'm told  very reliable hunk of iron. > > Don't know if they still make them. > > > > Tom, you mentioned the twin keels being a foot less > > than the single keel in draft.   What is the draft of > > the twins?  With enough sail area I'm sure you could > > overcome the extra wetted surface and gain the > > advantages of the lessened draft, and upright position > > when the tide goes out and she sits on her feet. > > Properly designed twins point well enough for > > cruising.  I built a John Letcher Aleutka and she > > pointed very nicely with the twin keels. > > > > Bert Eggers in snowy Michigan > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________ > > Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click. > > http://farechase.yahoo.com > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:  > > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > |
9637|9637|2005-11-19 11:35:44|Puck III|Yahoo Groups News for Photos|Yahoo is testing the new Photos system with the Beta test group. I tested already the new system : -all pics will be posted in Albums   [ subject or not to the moderator's approval ] -the tumbnails stay almost the same -the pics appear a bit larger -all will benefit from the " larger " function  so that all pics can be vieuwed in the largest   on screen format without having to scroll up and down. until now larger pics and pages were only easy to vieuw in Files , so I think its an improvement for all.  I realy think its gone be easyer to see more in Photos , without having to travel from Files to Photos , I just hope they increase available space in all groups cause I love pics that say a lot more than many words.  Be prepared it's comming real soon :-)  Old Ben|
9638|9592|2005-11-19 12:33:25|gschnell|Re: Pneumatic tank gauges|Edward This is a "bubbler system"...so named because the air pressure supplied to the measuring tube is set to generate a slow stream of air bubbles (1 or 2/sec.), which ensures the liquid is being kept from reentering the measure tube. The air pressure is an exact measure of the water (or diesel) column height (tank level). You can recalibrate your gauge to show tank level as (empty, 1/4, 1/2, 3/4, full)  Just add fluid to each level and mark the gauge. The process control industry has used thsi technique "for ever". Reliable, low maintenace, no moving parts. The only requirement is...you must have an air pressure source on-board. I have installed an air compressor and tank on mine and will use this system for all 7 tanks (water, diesel & grey water) Gord  edward_stoneuk wrote:   >  Nigel Calder in his maintenance manual recommends pneumatic tank > gauges.  A pipe is fitted so that its lower end is at the bottom of > the tank the other end is fitted with a pressure gauge or manometer > that reads in inches water gauge with the span slightly more than the > height of the tank. An air pump is fitted and pumped so the the water > or fuel is expelled from the bottom of the pipe.  The pressure shown > on the gauge in inches water gauge is equal to the height of the water > > in the tank above the outlet of the pipe.  A table can be drawn up to > show what that means in gallons.  The same system can be used with > diesel tanks with a conversion factor to allow for the difference in > density.  By using a manifold the same gauge can be used to sound > several tanks.  Does anyone have any experience of what sounds like a > beautifully simple system? > Regards, > Ted > > > > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > >    +  Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web. > >    +  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >       origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > >    +  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of >      Service. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- >    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]|
9639|9639|2005-11-19 12:53:50|Puck III|KYLOE   -  aluminum Origami   -  hull= 2 sheets 8mx2,5m|From: origamiboats2@yahoogroups.com  Date: Sat Nov 19, 2005  6:39 pm  Subject: New file uploaded to origamiboats2   origamiboats2@yahoogroups.com     Hello,  This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the origamiboats2 group.  File : /aluOrigami2.jpg Uploaded by : ben_azo <ben_azo@...> Description : Eric Autran's Kyloe , 2sheets 8mx2,5m for aluOrigami  You can access this file at the URL: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats2/files/aluOrigami2.jpg   a Super SWAIL ???  Eric Autran is an engineering student in Nantes . 7000 Euros spend for his fast planinghullform alu Origami boat for a planned around the world voyage .  I'l keep you posted :-) Old Ben|
9640|9639|2005-11-19 14:28:48|nadim khemir|Re: KYLOE   -  aluminum Origami   -  hull= 2 sheets 8mx2,5m|On Saturday 19 November 2005 18.53, Puck III wrote:   > a Super SWAIL ??? > Eric Autran is an engineering student in Nantes . > 7000 Euros spend for his fast planinghullform alu Origami boat > for a planned around the world voyage .   Any chance you have an external link for those who completely dislike yahoo  groups and it's silly login?  I send a few links to TouchCAD where you can see other aluminium origami  Cheers, Nadim|
9641|9641|2005-11-19 18:15:03|Gary|Mold question|Just noticed under the v berth cushions about where I sleep there is  black mold dots on the underside of the cushion which I am sure is  caused by difference in temp from myself to the plywood surface of the  v berth.    I would be happy to hear of what works to prevent this.  Also, will  washing in 50/50 white vinegar to water kill the mold.  Thanks... Gary|
9642|9641|2005-11-19 19:31:25|tom|Re: Mold question|Hello Gary  The only thing I found to prevent mold in boats was ventalation, If you  seal them up tight there gona mold. I used to keep one boat in slip and I  would flip all the cushions up on end and open all the traps and left  companion way door open a little then it stayed nice and dry and smelled  better to. I used pinsol to clean mold and if it was real bad I mixed a  little bleach with it. Never tryed white vinegar but would emagine that  would work allso Tom  ----- Original Message -----  From: "Gary" <greenguy2ca@...> To: <origamiboats@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, November 19, 2005 3:14 PM Subject: [origamiboats] Mold question   > Just noticed under the v berth cushions about where I sleep there is > black mold dots on the underside of the cushion which I am sure is > caused by difference in temp from myself to the plywood surface of the > v berth. > > I would be happy to hear of what works to prevent this.  Also, will > washing in 50/50 white vinegar to water kill the mold. > > Thanks... Gary > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:  > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > |
9643|9583|2005-11-19 20:19:22|aaron riis|Re: Swain 26 opinions|Tom, no, I didn't stretch the hull out except for the extra rake on  my transom.  I wouldn't do that again because now I know that it effects the rudder performance.  Anyhow, live and learn.  I haven't finished or launched yet, so I can't say I have any experience sailing the 26.   regards  Aaron  --- tom <tazmann@...> wrote:   > Hello Aaron >  Youre keel is about 2ft longer and quite a bit > fatter, maybee thats an  > option from brent to run the internal keel tanks. I > looked at your picture  > and it looks great, looks like you raised the trunk > cabin some and then the  > pilot house, the lines look right on, good job. >  Did you build it 26LOA or did you expand it a > little? > There seems to be a lot of interest in the 26 and if > you could post more  > pictures I think people would realy injoy them, > myself included. >  Last weekend when I was pulling the hulls together > a good friend stoped by  > and he happens to be the Hunter sailboat sales rep > here in central  > California, Well he looked it over and helped me > pull the bow section  > together,then he ask hows it going to sail,and I > didnt have a clue, Then he  > said, Lot of work and you dont know how she's going > to sail. Well he had a  > good point. So if anyone out there reading this has > sailed a 26 please give  > us some feedback on how they sail? > Tom > ----- Original Message -----  > From: "aaron riis" <aaronriis@...> > To: <origamiboats@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Friday, November 18, 2005 10:03 PM > Subject: Re: [origamiboats] Re: Swain 26 opinions >  >  > > Tom, > > Yes it is bigger. The Keel plan that Brent sent me > was > > a little over eight feet long,  six feet at the > bottom > > twelve inches wide at the top and ten at the > bottom. > > It drew one foot eight inches at the front and two > > foot four at the back from the bottom to where it > > meets the hull.  the leading pipe was a four inch > sch > > 80 split. It was quarter inch plate. With this > keel Im > > expecting to get around 35 gallons of tankage. > > > > Aaron > > > > --- tom <tazmann@...> wrote: > > > >> Hello Aaron > >>  My plans show top view of keels with demensions > and > >> say single or twin so I > >> emailed Brent directly to confirm  and he emailed > >> back and said they were > >> exactly the same. > >> Whats your plan showing is the single bigger? > >> Tom > >> ----- Original Message -----  > >> From: "aaron riis" <aaronriis@...> > >> To: <origamiboats@yahoogroups.com> > >> Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2005 8:33 PM > >> Subject: Re: [origamiboats] Re: Swain 26 opinions > >> > >> > >> > > >> > Hi, Tom, my name is Aaron, I'm building a 26 > >> single > >> > keel. I'd like to correct that the single and > twin > >> > keels are not the same.  Brent sent me the > plans > >> for > >> > the singlekeel. > >> >  >  >     		  __________________________________  Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click. http://farechase.yahoo.com|
9644|9383|2005-11-19 21:13:48|mickeyolaf|Re: Swain 26|I read a boat design book once that talked about increasing  headroom. It said to increase the deck crown an inch, the freeboard  an inch, the cabin sides an inch and the cabin crown the same. Then  everything is uniform and looks good. And you have added 4" of  headroom. Brent would know if these increases would be ok self righting wise  with his 26' design. I think the book was for wooden boats.             --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, bert andjan <bertandjan@y...>  wrote:  > > I'm enjoying all the chatter over the BS 26...  I'm > 6'4.5" tall and wonder how much headroom there is > under the pilot house?   Could you stretch and tweek > it a few inches by lowering the floors?  Increasing > the crown of the roof?  ??? >  > Another great engine for the 26 might be the Sabb 10 > horse, hand startable with controllable pitch prop.  > It's a heavy but I'm told  very reliable hunk of iron. >  Don't know if they still make them. >  > Tom, you mentioned the twin keels being a foot less > than the single keel in draft.   What is the draft of > the twins?  With enough sail area I'm sure you could > overcome the extra wetted surface and gain the > advantages of the lessened draft, and upright position > when the tide goes out and she sits on her feet.  > Properly designed twins point well enough for > cruising.  I built a John Letcher Aleutka and she > pointed very nicely with the twin keels. >  > Bert Eggers in snowy Michigan >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  > 		 > __________________________________  > Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click. > http://farechase.yahoo.com > |
9645|9645|2005-11-20 01:18:19|Puck III|Re : Swain 26 Options|Hi , for those interested , I just uploaded more than 20 different accomodation, deckhouse , rig  and appendix as keel and rudder options on the same  basic hullform. The MS version sure is one of my favorites , cause it is one of the simplest to build and use .  You can't expect Brent Swain to design a special different plan for all users . Certainly not for the super bargain price he is offering the plans for ( combined with that proven supertime saving buildingmethod )  Keep ideas flowing , I am sure all interested will have their own personal idea and that's what is realy easy with metal : you can do it , within nautical reason off course.  Hoping the info is usefull  Old Ben  as usual Files to be found in Origamiboats2 in Files :  Folder " OPTIONS on same hullform "|
9646|9641|2005-11-20 06:39:34|cirejay|Re: Mold question|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "tom" <tazmann@i...> wrote:  > > Hello Gary >  The only thing I found to prevent mold in boats was ventalation,   If you   > seal them up tight there gona mold. I used to keep one boat in   slip and I   > would flip all the cushions up on end and open all the traps and   left   > companion way door open a little then it stayed nice and dry and   smelled   > better to.    I've done the same and it's worked for me also. I keep a can of  Lysol spray onboard and make sure to spay all surfaces that are  likely to mold. I do believe that this helps too.  Gary, is the mold coming up while you're away from the boat or are  you living onboard?  I didn't find mold to be a problem while  onboard but only while the boat was shut-up tight when I was away.    You do, very much, want to keep the mold under control, especially  with some the types that seem to be more and more a health threat.  eric S/V Nebaras|
9647|9383|2005-11-20 11:42:38|tom|Re: Swain 26|Hello Old Ben  Well your rite there are a lot of other options one could look at but I  have to be the first to admit I am an amature at boatbuilding "this is my  first" and Im not a navel arcetect, I am a professional welder and most my  sailing has ben boey raceing. That being said Brent's keels are tryed on  proven and you cant beat the symplicity of fixed keel or keels. The nice  thing of building are own is you can make minor changes to set it up the way  you like but if your going to make major changes IE keels,sceg, rudder or  major weight placment you better consult a professional or at least know  what your doing. I beleave buy the plans that fit the bill and stick to plan  as an amature builder. Maybee Im just a worry wart but if Im out on the big  blue the peace of mind knowing every thing is built rite would make me a lot  more relaxed. Tom  ----- Original Message -----  From: "Puck III" <ben_azo@...> To: <origamiboats@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, November 19, 2005 8:20 AM Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Swain 26   > Hi Tom , even if the post is adressed to Bert > I cant but post some comments I made before in > " message 9608 Swain 26 Options " > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "tom" <tazmann@i...> wrote: >> >> Hello Bert >>   Looking at the plans the draft for twin keels is 3ft. >> As for headroom looks like around 6ft in rear cabin but after > looking at >> aaron's photo you could raise cabin with no problem to get the > headroom you >> like. > > There sure are more deckhouse design posibilities than > the 2 you mention , Aaron's deckhouse is designed that > way to see over the standard superstructures . > With a different deckhouse design [ one has to see well > over the bow!] respecting the volumes needed for the > best stability [ that again is a question of well placed > volumes of thin air ]I am sure more than enough headroom > can be created for the talest people :-) > You only need the headroom where you actualy stand . > It is easy to understand the argument when looking > at the rollover stability pic made in NavalDesigner . > >>  Theres a lot of pro's and con's on twin keels and  I  am looking > at a magor >> one a lot of places we sail have shallows, sandbars, lakes go low > in middle >> of summer,ect. If you do run aground with twin keels your stuck, at > least >> with a single you usualy can heel the boat over enough to get back > off >> without trying to find help. just my thoughts on it >> Tom > > I can't but agree if you only consider the 2 standard options, > I therefore repost some [cause there are much more available] > options from message 9608 >> Keel(s) options : >> - single keel >> - twinkeel >> - more profiled keels with bulbs [see twinkeelarticle] >> - center or side-boards >> - short profilekeels combined with side-boards >> [eventualy combined with double rudder ] > > The strenght of a chain depends upon > the strenght of its weakest link . > With boats it's a bit like that with everything. > All is much more interrelated than it looks at first site :-) > > Keep the ideas flowing , the 26' sure is worth it. > > Old Ben > > >> ----- Original Message -----  >> From: "bert andjan" <bertandjan@y...> >> To: <origamiboats@yahoogroups.com> >> Sent: Friday, November 18, 2005 6:12 PM >> Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Swain 26 >> >> >> > I'm enjoying all the chatter over the BS 26...  I'm >> > 6'4.5" tall and wonder how much headroom there is >> > under the pilot house?   Could you stretch and tweek >> > it a few inches by lowering the floors?  Increasing >> > the crown of the roof?  ??? >> > >> > Another great engine for the 26 might be the Sabb 10 >> > horse, hand startable with controllable pitch prop. >> > It's a heavy but I'm told  very reliable hunk of iron. >> > Don't know if they still make them. >> > >> > Tom, you mentioned the twin keels being a foot less >> > than the single keel in draft.   What is the draft of >> > the twins?  With enough sail area I'm sure you could >> > overcome the extra wetted surface and gain the >> > advantages of the lessened draft, and upright position >> > when the tide goes out and she sits on her feet. >> > Properly designed twins point well enough for >> > cruising.  I built a John Letcher Aleutka and she >> > pointed very nicely with the twin keels. >> > >> > Bert Eggers in snowy Michigan >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > __________________________________ >> > Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click. >> > http://farechase.yahoo.com >> > >> > >> > >> > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com >> > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: >> > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com >> > Yahoo! Groups Links >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:  > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > |
9648|9648|2005-11-20 16:22:13|Puck III|OutBoard  -  Slow Cruising - A fine article by David Seidman|From: origamiboats2@yahoogroups.com  Date: Sun Nov 20, 2005  10:15 pm  Subject: New file uploaded to origamiboats2     Hello,  This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the origamiboats2 group.  File : /Cruising05.jpg Uploaded by : ben_azo <ben_azo@...> Description : OB slow cruising by David Seidman  You can access this file at the URL: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats2/files/Cruising05.jpg|
9649|9383|2005-11-20 17:02:39|Puck III|Re: Swain 26|Hi Tom , I sure understand your argument :-)  I just posted the options for you and others interested in the 26' to see and judge for themselves .  I posted a file " OutBoard Slow Cruising " exactly for the same raisons . Even if I personaly prefer a diesel direct drive on a cruiser , the major advantage of an outboard on a small or larger boat is weight and that you can bring the engine to a garage instead of the repairman to the boat :-) , you building a trailorable boat could always bring the boat to the garage .  I think David Seidman's article is great and to the point so that other people interested in the OB option , can have a good read and judge for themselves.  Ted Brewer designed the Nimble Nomad in that article , the Nomad has a walk thru accomodation , so I could not resist to post some pics with a walk thru accomodation and a forward cockpit in the Photo Album Options very near your Tom'26 album . You will also find the pic of how a Fisherman turned a Pacific North 26'G Calkins BartTender into his fishing boat.  Are the pics and files worth looking at ??? All they do realy is illustrate options....  When I enter a diner I like to look at the menu and see if anything special is on offer :-) Like you , I choose what I like........  I realy look forward to see more of your pretty pics cause I realy like that BS 26 .  Old Ben    --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "tom" <tazmann@i...> wrote: > > Hello Old Ben >  Well your rite there are a lot of other options one could look at  but I  > have to be the first to admit I am an amature at boatbuilding "this  is my  > first" and Im not a navel arcetect, I am a professional welder and  most my  > sailing has ben boey raceing. That being said Brent's keels are  tryed on  > proven and you cant beat the symplicity of fixed keel or keels. The  nice  > thing of building are own is you can make minor changes to set it  up the way  > you like but if your going to make major changes IE keels,sceg,  rudder or  > major weight placment you better consult a professional or at least  know  > what your doing. I beleave buy the plans that fit the bill and  stick to plan  > as an amature builder. Maybee Im just a worry wart but if Im out on  the big  > blue the peace of mind knowing every thing is built rite would make  me a lot  > more relaxed. > Tom > ----- Original Message -----  > From: "Puck III" <ben_azo@h...> > To: <origamiboats@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Saturday, November 19, 2005 8:20 AM > Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Swain 26 >  >  > > Hi Tom , even if the post is adressed to Bert > > I cant but post some comments I made before in > > " message 9608 Swain 26 Options " > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "tom" <tazmann@i...> wrote: > >> > >> Hello Bert > >>   Looking at the plans the draft for twin keels is 3ft. > >> As for headroom looks like around 6ft in rear cabin but after > > looking at > >> aaron's photo you could raise cabin with no problem to get the > > headroom you > >> like. > > > > There sure are more deckhouse design posibilities than > > the 2 you mention , Aaron's deckhouse is designed that > > way to see over the standard superstructures . > > With a different deckhouse design [ one has to see well > > over the bow!] respecting the volumes needed for the > > best stability [ that again is a question of well placed > > volumes of thin air ]I am sure more than enough headroom > > can be created for the talest people :-) > > You only need the headroom where you actualy stand . > > It is easy to understand the argument when looking > > at the rollover stability pic made in NavalDesigner . > > > >>  Theres a lot of pro's and con's on twin keels and  I  am looking > > at a magor > >> one a lot of places we sail have shallows, sandbars, lakes go low > > in middle > >> of summer,ect. If you do run aground with twin keels your stuck,  at > > least > >> with a single you usualy can heel the boat over enough to get  back > > off > >> without trying to find help. just my thoughts on it > >> Tom > > > > I can't but agree if you only consider the 2 standard options, > > I therefore repost some [cause there are much more available] > > options from message 9608 > >> Keel(s) options : > >> - single keel > >> - twinkeel > >> - more profiled keels with bulbs [see twinkeelarticle] > >> - center or side-boards > >> - short profilekeels combined with side-boards > >> [eventualy combined with double rudder ] > > > > The strenght of a chain depends upon > > the strenght of its weakest link . > > With boats it's a bit like that with everything. > > All is much more interrelated than it looks at first site :-) > > > > Keep the ideas flowing , the 26' sure is worth it. > > > > Old Ben > > > > > >> ----- Original Message -----  > >> From: "bert andjan" <bertandjan@y...> > >> To: <origamiboats@yahoogroups.com> > >> Sent: Friday, November 18, 2005 6:12 PM > >> Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Swain 26 > >> > >> > >> > I'm enjoying all the chatter over the BS 26...  I'm > >> > 6'4.5" tall and wonder how much headroom there is > >> > under the pilot house?   Could you stretch and tweek > >> > it a few inches by lowering the floors?  Increasing > >> > the crown of the roof?  ??? > >> > > >> > Another great engine for the 26 might be the Sabb 10 > >> > horse, hand startable with controllable pitch prop. > >> > It's a heavy but I'm told  very reliable hunk of iron. > >> > Don't know if they still make them. > >> > > >> > Tom, you mentioned the twin keels being a foot less > >> > than the single keel in draft.   What is the draft of > >> > the twins?  With enough sail area I'm sure you could > >> > overcome the extra wetted surface and gain the > >> > advantages of the lessened draft, and upright position > >> > when the tide goes out and she sits on her feet. > >> > Properly designed twins point well enough for > >> > cruising.  I built a John Letcher Aleutka and she > >> > pointed very nicely with the twin keels. > >> > > >> > Bert Eggers in snowy Michigan > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > __________________________________ > >> > Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click. > >> > http://farechase.yahoo.com > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > >> > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > >> > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > >> > Yahoo! Groups Links > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:  > > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > |
9650|9641|2005-11-20 18:48:37|audeojude|Re: Mold question|one of the solar powered fans works wonders. It runs all day while the sun is up. Keeps a boat from getting damp and musty/mildewy inside. scott   --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "cirejay" <cirejay@h...> wrote: > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "tom" <tazmann@i...> wrote: > > > > Hello Gary > >  The only thing I found to prevent mold in boats was ventalation,  > If you  > > seal them up tight there gona mold. I used to keep one boat in  > slip and I  > > would flip all the cushions up on end and open all the traps and  > left  > > companion way door open a little then it stayed nice and dry and  > smelled  > > better to.  >  > I've done the same and it's worked for me also. I keep a can of  > Lysol spray onboard and make sure to spay all surfaces that are  > likely to mold. I do believe that this helps too. >  > Gary, is the mold coming up while you're away from the boat or are  > you living onboard?  I didn't find mold to be a problem while  > onboard but only while the boat was shut-up tight when I was away.   >  > You do, very much, want to keep the mold under control, especially  > with some the types that seem to be more and more a health threat. >  > eric S/V Nebaras > |
9651|9651|2005-11-20 22:13:25|Puck III|The 200 pound millionaire by Weston Farmer  -  1932|Hello,  This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the origamiboats2 group.  File : /The £200 Millionaire.txt Uploaded by : ben_azo <ben_azo@...> Description : the 200 pound millionaire by Weston Farmer  You can access this file at the URL: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats2/files/The%20%80%A0%A0%A3200% 20Millio\ naire.txt|
9652|9651|2005-11-20 22:23:37|Puck III|Re: The 200 pound millionaire by Weston Farmer  -  1932|Hi All , sorry guys , the Link I posted to the 45KB Wordpad in Origamiboats2 was to long and is NOT working . No problem , you will find the Wordpad over there in Files. I found a direct Link to " boatpages " , see hereunder :  http://crip.moorey.net/toplevel/boatpages/stories/200gbpstory.html  enjoy if you like a good read .  Old Ben   --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III" <ben_azo@h...> wrote: > > Hello, >  > This email message is a notification to let you know that > a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the origamiboats2 > group. >  > File : /The £200 Millionaire.txt > Uploaded by : ben_azo <ben_azo@> > Description : the 200 pound millionaire by Weston Farmer >  > You can access this file at the URL: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats2/files/The%20%80%A0%A0% A3200% > 20Millio\ > naire.txt > |
9653|9641|2005-11-21 01:03:58|mickeyolaf|Re: Mold question|I put two solar powered fans in my boat. One is cut into the forward  hatch and the other  in the pilothouse roof top. These fans run all day and the sun also charges the nicads  inside them so that they also run all night on the batteries. One blows in and one vents  out giving 24 hour positive ventilation.  You should open up everything inside, cupboards, covers, lift up cushions etc and the  ventilation will dry the interior out and stop the mold. I bought the solar day/night vents at the Seattle Marine Swap Meet held in April and  September each year.            --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "audeojude" <audeojude@y...> wrote: > > one of the solar powered fans works wonders. It runs all day while the > sun is up. Keeps a boat from getting damp and musty/mildewy inside. > scott >  > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "cirejay" <cirejay@h...> wrote: > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "tom" <tazmann@i...> wrote: > > > > > > Hello Gary > > >  The only thing I found to prevent mold in boats was ventalation,  > > If you  > > > seal them up tight there gona mold. I used to keep one boat in  > > slip and I  > > > would flip all the cushions up on end and open all the traps and  > > left  > > > companion way door open a little then it stayed nice and dry and  > > smelled  > > > better to.  > >  > > I've done the same and it's worked for me also. I keep a can of  > > Lysol spray onboard and make sure to spay all surfaces that are  > > likely to mold. I do believe that this helps too. > >  > > Gary, is the mold coming up while you're away from the boat or are  > > you living onboard?  I didn't find mold to be a problem while  > > onboard but only while the boat was shut-up tight when I was away.   > >  > > You do, very much, want to keep the mold under control, especially  > > with some the types that seem to be more and more a health threat. > >  > > eric S/V Nebaras > > > |
9654|9641|2005-11-21 03:52:27|Puck III|Re: Mold question|Hi , could you be more specific by giving the brand name , model and or type of those solar powered fans ? That specific model look very interesting . a price idea ? Thanks  --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "mickeyolaf" <mickeyolaf@y...>  wrote:  > > I put two solar powered fans in my boat. One is cut into the   forward  hatch and the other   > in the pilothouse roof top. These fans run all day and the sun also   charges the nicads   > inside them so that they also run all night on the batteries. One   blows in and one vents   > out giving 24 hour positive ventilation.  > You should open up everything inside, cupboards, covers, lift up   cushions etc and the   > ventilation will dry the interior out and stop the mold. > I bought the solar day/night vents at the Seattle Marine Swap Meet   held in April and   > September each year. >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "audeojude" <audeojude@y...>   wrote:  > > > > one of the solar powered fans works wonders. It runs all day   while the  > > sun is up. Keeps a boat from getting damp and musty/mildewy   inside.  > > scott > >  > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "cirejay" <cirejay@h...>   wrote:  > > > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "tom" <tazmann@i...> wrote: > > > > > > > > Hello Gary > > > >  The only thing I found to prevent mold in boats was   ventalation,   > > > If you  > > > > seal them up tight there gona mold. I used to keep one boat   in   > > > slip and I  > > > > would flip all the cushions up on end and open all the traps   and   > > > left  > > > > companion way door open a little then it stayed nice and dry   and   > > > smelled  > > > > better to.  > > >  > > > I've done the same and it's worked for me also. I keep a can of  > > > Lysol spray onboard and make sure to spay all surfaces that are  > > > likely to mold. I do believe that this helps too. > > >  > > > Gary, is the mold coming up while you're away from the boat or   are   > > > you living onboard?  I didn't find mold to be a problem while  > > > onboard but only while the boat was shut-up tight when I was   away.    > > >  > > > You do, very much, want to keep the mold under control,   especially   > > > with some the types that seem to be more and more a health   threat.  > > >  > > > eric S/V Nebaras > > > > > > |
9655|9641|2005-11-21 14:51:57|audeojude|Re: Mold question|Not sure what brand the fan on my boat came with it and is plastic.. no battery. It is mounted in the face of the forward hatch. However I see a stainless steel version sold on ebay a fair ammount for around 80 to 100 dollars. This one seem to have batteries that alow it to run past dark.  If you look at retail prices they seem to run from about 140 for the cheap ones to well over 200 for  the nicer ones.  I i was to choose the ideal featurs in a fan it would be to have batteries or be able to be wired into the house bank. It would have on and off switch so that you can turn it off even in solar mode. It would also have a feature so that you can  seal it closed even against green water over the bow situations.  scott  --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III" <ben_azo@h...> wrote: > > Hi , could you be more specific by giving the brand name , > model and or type of those solar powered fans ? > That specific model look very interesting . a price idea ? > Thanks |
9656|9473|2005-11-21 15:22:20|Carl Volkwein|Re: Engine Controls|This is just my two cents, but why not have one set of controls just outside (in the cockpit, just outside the companionway door), from the piolethouse, it could be reached by turning half around and reaching outside to shift or make throtle adjustments etc...       When you really needed to have controls close at hand, you should be in the cockpit already, to fend off or catch a dock line or something, and when you're in the piolet house, alll you should need is an occational addjustment.                              Carl Volkwein from W.V.  Ray <raykimbro@...> wrote:   --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "edward_stoneuk" <tedstone@g...>  wrote:  > > It is useful to have engine controls both inside the pilot house and  > outside by the tiller.  I have one set of controls but do not want to  > shell out for a second set.  I thought about placing the one set  > inside but close to the hatch so that one could lean forward from the  > tiller position and move the control lever or perhaps have an  > extension fitted to the lever enabling one to move it from  > outside.  What have other builders done? > Regards, > Ted >  VERY different application, but, one that might be food for thought:  On the Chesapeake Bay Deadrise workboats - the TYPICAL arrangement is  to have a full set of controls; throttle, transmission, steering, in  the cockpit.    Most watermen run their boats from the deck - near the engine box. They  steer w/a gunnel-mounted ( yes I know it's spelled gunwhale ) stick  that has a rope wrapped around it, running over pulleys, through the  cabin, around the helm-shaft, down the port side, back to the rudder,  and forming a loop back to the steering stick.  Push forward to go  starboard, pull back for port.   The REAL engine controls are mounted in the cockpit, w/additional  cables tied into those, and mounted on the side of the engine box.  The  engine box controls are usually NOT real morse-type controls, they're  home-made attachments TO those controls.   As I said, different application, but, their implementation MIGHT spark  an idea that would suit your needs.   Good luck!   Ray Kimbro        To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com       SPONSORED LINKS          Yacht   Victoria bc       ---------------------------------   YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS            Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web.          To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:  origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com          Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.        ---------------------------------          		 ---------------------------------  Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click.    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]|
9657|9641|2005-11-21 20:18:43|mickeyolaf|Re: Mold question|I bought two stainless steel Nicro Fico 4" Day/Night solar vents. I  found them at the Seattle Marine Swap Meet new in boxes for $50.00  each. You just reverse the fan to vent in or out. They are easily  removed and a cover snaps in place for heavy weather. There is an  iside cover if you don't want the vent running. That Seattle swap meet is a great place to find fittings. It is  advertised in 48 North. I have bought new blocks,e/cords, pigtails,  tiller head, Andersen winches, Masthead tri-light,teak etc etc etc.  If you go, be there no later than 0500 am. We were there at 0400 am  this year and it was already busy. It is supposed to start at 0700.  Great place to practice your negotiating skills. I bought six new G5  fenders this last meet for the price of 2 at West Marine.    -- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III" <ben_azo@h...> wrote:  > > Hi , could you be more specific by giving the brand name , > model and or type of those solar powered fans ? > That specific model look very interesting . a price idea ? > Thanks >  > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "mickeyolaf"   <mickeyolaf@y...>   > wrote: > > > > I put two solar powered fans in my boat. One is cut into the  > forward  hatch and the other  > > in the pilothouse roof top. These fans run all day and the sun   also   > charges the nicads  > > inside them so that they also run all night on the batteries.   One   > blows in and one vents  > > out giving 24 hour positive ventilation.  > > You should open up everything inside, cupboards, covers, lift up  > cushions etc and the  > > ventilation will dry the interior out and stop the mold. > > I bought the solar day/night vents at the Seattle Marine Swap   Meet   > held in April and  > > September each year. > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "audeojude"   <audeojude@y...>   > wrote: > > > > > > one of the solar powered fans works wonders. It runs all day  > while the > > > sun is up. Keeps a boat from getting damp and musty/mildewy  > inside. > > > scott > > >  > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "cirejay" <cirejay@h...>  > wrote: > > > > > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "tom" <tazmann@i...>   wrote:  > > > > > > > > > > Hello Gary > > > > >  The only thing I found to prevent mold in boats was  > ventalation,  > > > > If you  > > > > > seal them up tight there gona mold. I used to keep one   boat   > in  > > > > slip and I  > > > > > would flip all the cushions up on end and open all the   traps   > and  > > > > left  > > > > > companion way door open a little then it stayed nice and   dry   > and  > > > > smelled  > > > > > better to.  > > > >  > > > > I've done the same and it's worked for me also. I keep a can   of   > > > > Lysol spray onboard and make sure to spay all surfaces that   are   > > > > likely to mold. I do believe that this helps too. > > > >  > > > > Gary, is the mold coming up while you're away from the boat   or   > are  > > > > you living onboard?  I didn't find mold to be a problem   while   > > > > onboard but only while the boat was shut-up tight when I was  > away.   > > > >  > > > > You do, very much, want to keep the mold under control,  > especially  > > > > with some the types that seem to be more and more a health  > threat. > > > >  > > > > eric S/V Nebaras > > > > > > > > > > |
9658|9555|2005-11-22 12:01:36|richytill|Re: best pacific weather|Ted, I picked up a copy of a book by Jimmy Cornell giving almost 1000  routes all over the world.  Seems to have a generalised info' on most  of the likely places to go.  Having heard a few more tales of  suffering and woe I am glad to have a steel boat.  One returnee said  as much:  "if I were to do it again, I'd go metal--for sure."  rt     --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Richard Till" <tillrc@h...>  wrote:  > > Ted, thanks for the tips.  Looks like a composite of first hand   local   > information from the people out there and technical info from maps   etc. is   > the way to go.  Just got news of a local couple we watched sail   away--they   > experienced difficult conditions off the Oregon coast en-route to   Mexico.  I   > am waiting to discover how much damage they sustained.  Seems they   had to   > put in to California. >  > rt >  >  >  > >From: "edward_stoneuk" <tedstone@g...> > >Reply-To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > >To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > >Subject: [origamiboats] Re: best pacific weather > >Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2005 10:08:33 -0000 > > > >Hi Richy, > >I think that there are books and software listing the currents, > >prevailing winds and weather patterns of the oceans.  A troll   through  > >Google or a marine bookstore should find one or two.  Or perhaps   join  > >one of the long distance cruising clubs.  I am not at that stage   yet.  > >Good luck. > >Regards, > >Ted > > > > > > >  > _________________________________________________________________ > Take charge with a pop-up guard built on patented Microsoft®   SmartScreen   > Technology.  > http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-  ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Mar ket_MSNIS_Taglines   >   Start enjoying all the benefits of MSN® Premium right now and get   the   > first two months FREE*. > |
9659|9343|2005-11-22 13:56:36|Michael Casling|Re: Hillrange Alcohol Stove|I am interested. I have a Richmond Ring stove that uses pressurized alcohol and I want to change to kerosene. If it is easier to change the Hillrange then I would be interested. I will need dimensions.  I will be in Vancouver for the boat show in February. Might be down sooner but not positive. Michael in Kelowna    ----- Original Message -----    From: mickeyolaf    To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com    Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2005 10:59 AM   Subject: [origamiboats] Hillrange Alcohol Stove     If anyone is interested in a gimbled new all stainless steel 2 burner    with oven marine alcohol stove let me know. It has the pressure tank    and mounts with it, has never been used. Hillranges are convertable to    kersosene or diesel or overproof rum by changing out the burners or    keep it on alcohol. It's available for $100.00 including the tank. I'm    in Burnaby at 778-837-5725.        To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com   To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com       SPONSORED LINKS British columbia canada  Vancouver island  Yacht           Victoria bc     ------------------------------------------------------------------------------   YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS       a..  Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web.            b..  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:      origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com            c..  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
9660|9641|2005-11-22 14:23:10|brentswain38|Re: Mold question|If you have any  small solar panel on your boat and rig a computer  fan to one of your vents , you have the same efect at a tiny fraction  the price of a solar vent. Junk shops have lots of used computer fans  for cheap. Brent   --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "mickeyolaf" <mickeyolaf@y...>  wrote:  > > I bought two stainless steel Nicro Fico 4" Day/Night solar vents. I  > found them at the Seattle Marine Swap Meet new in boxes for $50.00  > each. You just reverse the fan to vent in or out. They are easily  > removed and a cover snaps in place for heavy weather. There is an  > iside cover if you don't want the vent running. > That Seattle swap meet is a great place to find fittings. It is  > advertised in 48 North. I have bought new blocks,e/cords, pigtails,  > tiller head, Andersen winches, Masthead tri-light,teak etc etc etc.  > If you go, be there no later than 0500 am. We were there at 0400 am  > this year and it was already busy. It is supposed to start at 0700.  > Great place to practice your negotiating skills. I bought six new   G5   > fenders this last meet for the price of 2 at West Marine. >  >  >  > -- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III" <ben_azo@h...> wrote: > > > > Hi , could you be more specific by giving the brand name , > > model and or type of those solar powered fans ? > > That specific model look very interesting . a price idea ? > > Thanks > >  > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "mickeyolaf"  > <mickeyolaf@y...>  > > wrote: > > > > > > I put two solar powered fans in my boat. One is cut into the  > > forward  hatch and the other  > > > in the pilothouse roof top. These fans run all day and the sun  > also  > > charges the nicads  > > > inside them so that they also run all night on the batteries.  > One  > > blows in and one vents  > > > out giving 24 hour positive ventilation.  > > > You should open up everything inside, cupboards, covers, lift   up   > > cushions etc and the  > > > ventilation will dry the interior out and stop the mold. > > > I bought the solar day/night vents at the Seattle Marine Swap  > Meet  > > held in April and  > > > September each year. > > >  > > >  > > >  > > >  > > >  > > >  > > >  > > >  > > >  > > >  > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "audeojude"  > <audeojude@y...>  > > wrote: > > > > > > > > one of the solar powered fans works wonders. It runs all day  > > while the > > > > sun is up. Keeps a boat from getting damp and musty/mildewy  > > inside. > > > > scott > > > >  > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "cirejay" <cirejay@h...>  > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "tom" <tazmann@i...>  > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Hello Gary > > > > > >  The only thing I found to prevent mold in boats was  > > ventalation,  > > > > > If you  > > > > > > seal them up tight there gona mold. I used to keep one  > boat  > > in  > > > > > slip and I  > > > > > > would flip all the cushions up on end and open all the  > traps  > > and  > > > > > left  > > > > > > companion way door open a little then it stayed nice and  > dry  > > and  > > > > > smelled  > > > > > > better to.  > > > > >  > > > > > I've done the same and it's worked for me also. I keep a   can   > of  > > > > > Lysol spray onboard and make sure to spay all surfaces that  > are  > > > > > likely to mold. I do believe that this helps too. > > > > >  > > > > > Gary, is the mold coming up while you're away from the boat  > or  > > are  > > > > > you living onboard?  I didn't find mold to be a problem  > while  > > > > > onboard but only while the boat was shut-up tight when I   was   > > away.   > > > > >  > > > > > You do, very much, want to keep the mold under control,  > > especially  > > > > > with some the types that seem to be more and more a health  > > threat. > > > > >  > > > > > eric S/V Nebaras > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > |
9661|9473|2005-11-22 14:24:59|brentswain38|Re: Engine Controls|Outside controls are prone to getting kicked at the wrong time , or  fouling a line. Just inside the companionway they are just as  accessible, but out of the way. Brent  - In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Carl Volkwein <carlvolkwein@y...>  wrote:  > > This is just my two cents, but why not have one set of controls   just outside (in the cockpit, just outside the companionway door),  from the piolethouse, it could be reached by turning half around and  reaching outside to shift or make throtle adjustments etc...  >       When you really needed to have controls close at hand, you   should be in the cockpit already, to fend off or catch a dock line or  something, and when you're in the piolet house, alll you should need  is an occational addjustment.  >     >                          Carl Volkwein from W.V. >  > Ray <raykimbro@y...> wrote: >   --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "edward_stoneuk"   <tedstone@g...>   > wrote: > > > > It is useful to have engine controls both inside the pilot house   and   > > outside by the tiller.  I have one set of controls but do not   want to   > > shell out for a second set.  I thought about placing the one set  > > inside but close to the hatch so that one could lean forward from   the   > > tiller position and move the control lever or perhaps have an  > > extension fitted to the lever enabling one to move it from  > > outside.  What have other builders done? > > Regards, > > Ted > > > VERY different application, but, one that might be food for thought: >  > On the Chesapeake Bay Deadrise workboats - the TYPICAL arrangement   is   > to have a full set of controls; throttle, transmission, steering,   in   > the cockpit.   >  > Most watermen run their boats from the deck - near the engine box.   They   > steer w/a gunnel-mounted ( yes I know it's spelled gunwhale ) stick  > that has a rope wrapped around it, running over pulleys, through   the   > cabin, around the helm-shaft, down the port side, back to the   rudder,   > and forming a loop back to the steering stick.  Push forward to go  > starboard, pull back for port.  >  > The REAL engine controls are mounted in the cockpit, w/additional  > cables tied into those, and mounted on the side of the engine box.    The   > engine box controls are usually NOT real morse-type controls,   they're   > home-made attachments TO those controls.  >  > As I said, different application, but, their implementation MIGHT   spark   > an idea that would suit your needs.  >  > Good luck!  >  > Ray Kimbro >  >  >  >  >  >  >  > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-  unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com   >  >  >  >   SPONSORED LINKS  >         Yacht   Victoria bc  >      > --------------------------------- >   YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS  >  >      >     Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web. >      >     To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >  origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com >      >     Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of   Service.   >  >      > --------------------------------- >    >  >    >  >  > 		 > --------------------------------- >  Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click.   >  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > |
9662|9383|2005-11-22 14:31:04|brentswain38|Re: Swain 26|Such increases would reduce your initial stability , but would  increase ultimate stability in a rollover, because they would  increase the volume of air up high, especially increasing the  cabintop camber. Brent  --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "mickeyolaf" <mickeyolaf@y...>  wrote:  > >  > I read a boat design book once that talked about increasing  > headroom. It said to increase the deck crown an inch, the freeboard  > an inch, the cabin sides an inch and the cabin crown the same. Then  > everything is uniform and looks good. And you have added 4" of  > headroom. > Brent would know if these increases would be ok self righting wise  > with his 26' design. I think the book was for wooden boats. >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, bert andjan <bertandjan@y...>  > wrote: > > > > I'm enjoying all the chatter over the BS 26...  I'm > > 6'4.5" tall and wonder how much headroom there is > > under the pilot house?   Could you stretch and tweek > > it a few inches by lowering the floors?  Increasing > > the crown of the roof?  ??? > >  > > Another great engine for the 26 might be the Sabb 10 > > horse, hand startable with controllable pitch prop.  > > It's a heavy but I'm told  very reliable hunk of iron. > >  Don't know if they still make them. > >  > > Tom, you mentioned the twin keels being a foot less > > than the single keel in draft.   What is the draft of > > the twins?  With enough sail area I'm sure you could > > overcome the extra wetted surface and gain the > > advantages of the lessened draft, and upright position > > when the tide goes out and she sits on her feet.  > > Properly designed twins point well enough for > > cruising.  I built a John Letcher Aleutka and she > > pointed very nicely with the twin keels. > >  > > Bert Eggers in snowy Michigan > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > > 		 > > __________________________________  > > Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click. > > http://farechase.yahoo.com > > > |
9663|9583|2005-11-22 14:42:25|brentswain38|Re: Swain 26 opinions|For a single keeler a slightly longer and fatter keel would have the  advantage of tankage in it, keepng the weight low and out of the way.  The leading edge has to remain in the same place as it determines  balance , the aft part being more or les irrellevant when it comes to  balance. Brent   --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "tom" <tazmann@i...> wrote: > > Hello Aaron >  Youre keel is about 2ft longer and quite a bit fatter, maybee  thats an  > option from brent to run the internal keel tanks. I looked at your  picture  > and it looks great, looks like you raised the trunk cabin some and  then the  > pilot house, the lines look right on, good job. >  Did you build it 26LOA or did you expand it a little? > There seems to be a lot of interest in the 26 and if you could post  more  > pictures I think people would realy injoy them, myself included. >  Last weekend when I was pulling the hulls together a good friend  stoped by  > and he happens to be the Hunter sailboat sales rep here in central  > California, Well he looked it over and helped me pull the bow  section  > together,then he ask hows it going to sail,and I didnt have a clue,  Then he  > said, Lot of work and you dont know how she's going to sail. Well  he had a  > good point. So if anyone out there reading this has sailed a 26  please give  > us some feedback on how they sail? > Tom > ----- Original Message -----  > From: "aaron riis" <aaronriis@y...> > To: <origamiboats@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Friday, November 18, 2005 10:03 PM > Subject: Re: [origamiboats] Re: Swain 26 opinions >  >  > > Tom, > > Yes it is bigger. The Keel plan that Brent sent me was > > a little over eight feet long,  six feet at the bottom > > twelve inches wide at the top and ten at the bottom. > > It drew one foot eight inches at the front and two > > foot four at the back from the bottom to where it > > meets the hull.  the leading pipe was a four inch sch > > 80 split. It was quarter inch plate. With this keel Im > > expecting to get around 35 gallons of tankage. > > > > Aaron > > > > --- tom <tazmann@i...> wrote: > > > >> Hello Aaron > >>  My plans show top view of keels with demensions and > >> say single or twin so I > >> emailed Brent directly to confirm  and he emailed > >> back and said they were > >> exactly the same. > >> Whats your plan showing is the single bigger? > >> Tom > >> ----- Original Message -----  > >> From: "aaron riis" <aaronriis@y...> > >> To: <origamiboats@yahoogroups.com> > >> Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2005 8:33 PM > >> Subject: Re: [origamiboats] Re: Swain 26 opinions > >> > >> > >> > > >> > Hi, Tom, my name is Aaron, I'm building a 26 > >> single > >> > keel. I'd like to correct that the single and twin > >> > keels are not the same.  Brent sent me the plans > >> for > >> > the singlekeel. > >> > > |
9664|9641|2005-11-22 14:48:41|brentswain38|Re: Mold question|Thats why I gave up on porous, fabric cushions 33 yewars ago. UI wnt  for Vinyl and would never go back.I've had no such problem since. If  you don't want to sleep on Vinyl, throw a quilt on it.  With vinyl covers , nothing soaks in and if they get wet, you just  wipe them. With fabric covers they stay wet until spring.  The stuff with the 3.5 ounce polyester saturated with plastic is far  tougher than normal upholstery and is actually cheaper.    --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Gary" <greenguy2ca@y...> wrote: > > Just noticed under the v berth cushions about where I sleep there  is  > black mold dots on the underside of the cushion which I am sure is  > caused by difference in temp from myself to the plywood surface of  the  > v berth.   >  > I would be happy to hear of what works to prevent this.  Also, will  > washing in 50/50 white vinegar to water kill the mold. >  > Thanks... Gary > |
9665|9641|2005-11-22 15:01:41|Michael Casling|Re: Mold question|The Army surplus store has wool blankets. We have used them for horse blankets to put on after an event where the horse got wet from sweat. You can use them as sacrificial covers / sponges on the boat. Or you can actually use them to keep warm.  Michael    ----- Original Message -----    From: brentswain38    To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com    Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2005 11:47 AM   Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Mold question     Thats why I gave up on porous, fabric cushions 33 yewars ago. UI wnt    for Vinyl and would never go back.I've had no such problem since. If    you don't want to sleep on Vinyl, throw a quilt on it.   With vinyl covers , nothing soaks in and if they get wet, you just    wipe them. With fabric covers they stay wet until spring.   The stuff with the 3.5 ounce polyester saturated with plastic is far    tougher than normal upholstery and is actually cheaper.     [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
9666|9641|2005-11-22 15:25:24|jericoera|Re: Mold question|I would drill 1 inch holes in the plywood where you are putting the  cushions no matter what kind of cushions they are. This may help  increase ventilation in the locker or storage area below and would  also allow any moisture you are giving off to pass through and be  circulated in the boat and not trapped.    I doubt it would weaken the bunk any unless you really got carried  away with the drill. I have seen this in a V-Berth recently and  thought it made good sense. If you have any coins or anything in  your pockets however, they may end up under the mattress and fall  through the holes making them potentially a pain to recover.  Another alternative I am looking at is finding a type of strong  gridded plastic like they use for horses to stand on when they bathe  them. The grid has high strenth and excellent ventilation. It is  also reasonably light weight.   Most of the plywood that is half ass decent on the market is  significantly over priced from what I can see.  Carl M.      --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Michael Casling <casling@s...>  wrote:  > > The Army surplus store has wool blankets. We have used them for   horse blankets to put on after an event where the horse got wet from  sweat. You can use them as sacrificial covers / sponges on the boat.  Or you can actually use them to keep warm.  >  > Michael >   ----- Original Message -----  >   From: brentswain38  >   To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com  >   Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2005 11:47 AM >   Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Mold question >  >  >   Thats why I gave up on porous, fabric cushions 33 yewars ago. UI   wnt   >   for Vinyl and would never go back.I've had no such problem   since. If   >   you don't want to sleep on Vinyl, throw a quilt on it. >   With vinyl covers , nothing soaks in and if they get wet, you   just   >   wipe them. With fabric covers they stay wet until spring. >   The stuff with the 3.5 ounce polyester saturated with plastic is   far   >   tougher than normal upholstery and is actually cheaper.  >  >  >  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > |
9667|9641|2005-11-22 22:05:16|mickeyolaf|Re: Mold question|On my last boat (fiberglass) I had a condensation problem that made the boat damp. It  never got to the mold stage.  I opened the front hatch 6 inches, then lashed my dingy overtop so no-one could see it  open. I then cut a louvered 12" x 4" stainless vent into the covering boards. I then had flow  thru air front to back.  The differance was amazing. It dried out in weeks and stayed that way. I also opened every  cabinet, raised all of the cushions, lifted the floor boards. This might be all thats needed.  Much cheaper than buying solar vents.          --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "jericoera" <jericoera@y...> wrote: > > I would drill 1 inch holes in the plywood where you are putting the  > cushions no matter what kind of cushions they are. This may help  > increase ventilation in the locker or storage area below and would  > also allow any moisture you are giving off to pass through and be  > circulated in the boat and not trapped.   >  > I doubt it would weaken the bunk any unless you really got carried  > away with the drill. I have seen this in a V-Berth recently and  > thought it made good sense. If you have any coins or anything in  > your pockets however, they may end up under the mattress and fall  > through the holes making them potentially a pain to recover. >  > Another alternative I am looking at is finding a type of strong  > gridded plastic like they use for horses to stand on when they bathe  > them. The grid has high strenth and excellent ventilation. It is  > also reasonably light weight.  >  > Most of the plywood that is half ass decent on the market is  > significantly over priced from what I can see. >  > Carl M. >  >  >  >  >  > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Michael Casling <casling@s...>  > wrote: > > > > The Army surplus store has wool blankets. We have used them for  > horse blankets to put on after an event where the horse got wet from  > sweat. You can use them as sacrificial covers / sponges on the boat.  > Or you can actually use them to keep warm. > >  > > Michael > >   ----- Original Message -----  > >   From: brentswain38  > >   To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com  > >   Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2005 11:47 AM > >   Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Mold question > >  > >  > >   Thats why I gave up on porous, fabric cushions 33 yewars ago. UI  > wnt  > >   for Vinyl and would never go back.I've had no such problem  > since. If  > >   you don't want to sleep on Vinyl, throw a quilt on it. > >   With vinyl covers , nothing soaks in and if they get wet, you  > just  > >   wipe them. With fabric covers they stay wet until spring. > >   The stuff with the 3.5 ounce polyester saturated with plastic is  > far  > >   tougher than normal upholstery and is actually cheaper.  > >  > >  > >  > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > |
9668|9668|2005-11-23 11:56:14|khooper_fboats|Easyrig Unstayed Mast|I don't know how many of you are interested in an unstayed rig, it has always been a fascination of mine.  Rob Denney has had in development a mast he calls "Easyrig", it is an unstayed carbon/epoxy mast intended for amateur construction. He uses carbon tow, conventional epoxy and vacuum bagging in a form. Very long thin form. =^)  Rob is an Australian, he is unarguably the world's leading exponent of the proa craft, he is building some fantastic boats you can see at http://www.harryproa.com .  He says in a message posted to Sailing Anarchy:  -----------------------------------  We have just completed an 18m/60' unstayed mast for a 15m/50' harryproa.  Some details:  Righting moment: 17,820 tonne metres/58,800 ton feet Mast length: 18m/60', Above deck: 16m/53' Diameter at base: 300mm/12" Diameter at tip: 100mm/4" Safety factor: 2.5 Designed weight of bare tube: 119 kgs/262 lbs Actual weight of bare tube: 117 kgs/257 lbs Designed deflection with 153 kgs/337 lbs midway along mast: 178mm/7" Actual deflection with 153 kgs midway along the mast: 175mm/6.9" Designed tip deflection at capsize: 2.9m/9'8" Actual deflection at capsize: yet to be established! Cost of mast painted with top and bottom fittings: $AUS15,000/$US10,800/9,000 Euros Additional cost for lightweight carbon rcb track bonded on: $2,800/$US2,000/1,680 Euros  -------------------------------------  Not sure what he is using for bearings, it is a rotating rig.  He doesn't appear to have plans available separately for the rig, maybe that is coming, right now they are included in the plans for the proa.  --Ken|
9669|9641|2005-11-23 16:38:57|brentswain38|Re: Mold question|With most of the pieces of plywood needed for a boat being small, you  can scrounge a lot of it.If it's old and weathered and hasn't  delaminated you know it's good, something you don't know with new  stuff.  A few minutes with a belt sander will bring it back to  smooth, and if it's the bottom of a locker, who cares how pretty it  is. A coat of paint can also make a difference . There is a lot of  plywood laying around on beaches etc, in BC free for the scrounging. Brent  --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "jericoera" <jericoera@y...>  wrote:  > > I would drill 1 inch holes in the plywood where you are putting the  > cushions no matter what kind of cushions they are. This may help  > increase ventilation in the locker or storage area below and would  > also allow any moisture you are giving off to pass through and be  > circulated in the boat and not trapped.   >  > I doubt it would weaken the bunk any unless you really got carried  > away with the drill. I have seen this in a V-Berth recently and  > thought it made good sense. If you have any coins or anything in  > your pockets however, they may end up under the mattress and fall  > through the holes making them potentially a pain to recover. >  > Another alternative I am looking at is finding a type of strong  > gridded plastic like they use for horses to stand on when they   bathe   > them. The grid has high strenth and excellent ventilation. It is  > also reasonably light weight.  >  > Most of the plywood that is half ass decent on the market is  > significantly over priced from what I can see. >  > Carl M. >  >  >  >  >  > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Michael Casling <casling@s...>  > wrote: > > > > The Army surplus store has wool blankets. We have used them for  > horse blankets to put on after an event where the horse got wet   from   > sweat. You can use them as sacrificial covers / sponges on the   boat.   > Or you can actually use them to keep warm. > >  > > Michael > >   ----- Original Message -----  > >   From: brentswain38  > >   To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com  > >   Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2005 11:47 AM > >   Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Mold question > >  > >  > >   Thats why I gave up on porous, fabric cushions 33 yewars ago.   UI   > wnt  > >   for Vinyl and would never go back.I've had no such problem  > since. If  > >   you don't want to sleep on Vinyl, throw a quilt on it. > >   With vinyl covers , nothing soaks in and if they get wet, you  > just  > >   wipe them. With fabric covers they stay wet until spring. > >   The stuff with the 3.5 ounce polyester saturated with plastic   is   > far  > >   tougher than normal upholstery and is actually cheaper.  > >  > >  > >  > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > |
9670|9668|2005-11-23 16:43:24|brentswain38|Re: Easyrig Unstayed Mast|$ 12,000 for the mast alone puts it right out of the question. My  whole boat cost less than that. I don't think you could justify that  kind of expense , unless you were so rich you'd never miss the money. Brent   --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "khooper_fboats" <bighouse@t...>  wrote:  > >  > I don't know how many of you are interested in an unstayed rig, it   has  > always been a fascination of mine. >  > Rob Denney has had in development a mast he calls "Easyrig", it is   an  > unstayed carbon/epoxy mast intended for amateur construction. He   uses  > carbon tow, conventional epoxy and vacuum bagging in a form. Very   long  > thin form. =^) >  > Rob is an Australian, he is unarguably the world's leading exponent   of  > the proa craft, he is building some fantastic boats you can see at > http://www.harryproa.com . >  > He says in a message posted to Sailing Anarchy: >  > ----------------------------------- >  > We have just completed an 18m/60' unstayed mast for a 15m/50'   harryproa.  >  > Some details: >  > Righting moment: 17,820 tonne metres/58,800 ton feet > Mast length: 18m/60', > Above deck: 16m/53' > Diameter at base: 300mm/12" > Diameter at tip: 100mm/4" > Safety factor: 2.5 > Designed weight of bare tube: 119 kgs/262 lbs > Actual weight of bare tube: 117 kgs/257 lbs > Designed deflection with 153 kgs/337 lbs midway along mast: 178mm/7" > Actual deflection with 153 kgs midway along the mast: 175mm/6.9" > Designed tip deflection at capsize: 2.9m/9'8" > Actual deflection at capsize: yet to be established! > Cost of mast painted with top and bottom fittings: > $AUS15,000/$US10,800/9,000 Euros > Additional cost for lightweight carbon rcb track bonded on: > $2,800/$US2,000/1,680 Euros >  > ------------------------------------- >  > Not sure what he is using for bearings, it is a rotating rig. >  > He doesn't appear to have plans available separately for the rig, > maybe that is coming, right now they are included in the plans for   the  > proa. >  > --Ken > |
9671|9668|2005-11-23 19:18:14|mickeyolaf|Re: Easyrig Unstayed Mast|Commercial masts are expensive. I have a recent written quote from a  BC mast builder. A 47' aluminum mast including boom, cutter rig,  with all of the bells and whistles, stood up, just add my sails and  go: $13,900 CDN.         --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "brentswain38"  <brentswain38@h...> wrote:  > > $ 12,000 for the mast alone puts it right out of the question. My  > whole boat cost less than that. I don't think you could justify   that   > kind of expense , unless you were so rich you'd never miss the   money.  > Brent >  >  > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "khooper_fboats"   <bighouse@t...>   > wrote: > > > >  > > I don't know how many of you are interested in an unstayed rig,   it   > has > > always been a fascination of mine. > >  > > Rob Denney has had in development a mast he calls "Easyrig", it   is   > an > > unstayed carbon/epoxy mast intended for amateur construction. He  > uses > > carbon tow, conventional epoxy and vacuum bagging in a form.   Very   > long > > thin form. =^) > >  > > Rob is an Australian, he is unarguably the world's leading   exponent   > of > > the proa craft, he is building some fantastic boats you can see   at  > > http://www.harryproa.com . > >  > > He says in a message posted to Sailing Anarchy: > >  > > ----------------------------------- > >  > > We have just completed an 18m/60' unstayed mast for a 15m/50'  > harryproa. > >  > > Some details: > >  > > Righting moment: 17,820 tonne metres/58,800 ton feet > > Mast length: 18m/60', > > Above deck: 16m/53' > > Diameter at base: 300mm/12" > > Diameter at tip: 100mm/4" > > Safety factor: 2.5 > > Designed weight of bare tube: 119 kgs/262 lbs > > Actual weight of bare tube: 117 kgs/257 lbs > > Designed deflection with 153 kgs/337 lbs midway along mast:   178mm/7"  > > Actual deflection with 153 kgs midway along the mast: 175mm/6.9" > > Designed tip deflection at capsize: 2.9m/9'8" > > Actual deflection at capsize: yet to be established! > > Cost of mast painted with top and bottom fittings: > > $AUS15,000/$US10,800/9,000 Euros > > Additional cost for lightweight carbon rcb track bonded on: > > $2,800/$US2,000/1,680 Euros > >  > > ------------------------------------- > >  > > Not sure what he is using for bearings, it is a rotating rig. > >  > > He doesn't appear to have plans available separately for the rig, > > maybe that is coming, right now they are included in the plans   for   > the > > proa. > >  > > --Ken > > > |
9672|9668|2005-11-23 19:50:32|brentswain38|Re: Easyrig Unstayed Mast|Build your own. The steel mast in my plans costs around $1,000  including labour. With the high price of steel today, scrap aluminium  may be cheaper. A friend made galvanized fittings for an aluminium  extrusion and bolted them on , something I'd do if I did an aluminium  mast.  Rigging for a 36 costs around $24 in a scrapyard . Turnbuckles are  around $22 each.The money you save would be enough for several years  cruising. Brent      --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "mickeyolaf" <mickeyolaf@y...>  wrote:  > > Commercial masts are expensive. I have a recent written quote from   a   > BC mast builder. A 47' aluminum mast including boom, cutter rig,  > with all of the bells and whistles, stood up, just add my sails and  > go: $13,900 CDN. >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "brentswain38"  > <brentswain38@h...> wrote: > > > > $ 12,000 for the mast alone puts it right out of the question. My  > > whole boat cost less than that. I don't think you could justify  > that  > > kind of expense , unless you were so rich you'd never miss the  > money. > > Brent > >  > >  > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "khooper_fboats"  > <bighouse@t...>  > > wrote: > > > > > >  > > > I don't know how many of you are interested in an unstayed rig,  > it  > > has > > > always been a fascination of mine. > > >  > > > Rob Denney has had in development a mast he calls "Easyrig", it  > is  > > an > > > unstayed carbon/epoxy mast intended for amateur construction.   He   > > uses > > > carbon tow, conventional epoxy and vacuum bagging in a form.  > Very  > > long > > > thin form. =^) > > >  > > > Rob is an Australian, he is unarguably the world's leading  > exponent  > > of > > > the proa craft, he is building some fantastic boats you can see  > at > > > http://www.harryproa.com . > > >  > > > He says in a message posted to Sailing Anarchy: > > >  > > > ----------------------------------- > > >  > > > We have just completed an 18m/60' unstayed mast for a 15m/50'  > > harryproa. > > >  > > > Some details: > > >  > > > Righting moment: 17,820 tonne metres/58,800 ton feet > > > Mast length: 18m/60', > > > Above deck: 16m/53' > > > Diameter at base: 300mm/12" > > > Diameter at tip: 100mm/4" > > > Safety factor: 2.5 > > > Designed weight of bare tube: 119 kgs/262 lbs > > > Actual weight of bare tube: 117 kgs/257 lbs > > > Designed deflection with 153 kgs/337 lbs midway along mast:  > 178mm/7" > > > Actual deflection with 153 kgs midway along the mast: 175mm/6.9" > > > Designed tip deflection at capsize: 2.9m/9'8" > > > Actual deflection at capsize: yet to be established! > > > Cost of mast painted with top and bottom fittings: > > > $AUS15,000/$US10,800/9,000 Euros > > > Additional cost for lightweight carbon rcb track bonded on: > > > $2,800/$US2,000/1,680 Euros > > >  > > > ------------------------------------- > > >  > > > Not sure what he is using for bearings, it is a rotating rig. > > >  > > > He doesn't appear to have plans available separately for the   rig,  > > > maybe that is coming, right now they are included in the plans  > for  > > the > > > proa. > > >  > > > --Ken > > > > > > |
9673|9668|2005-11-23 21:44:13|khooper_fboats|Re: Easyrig Unstayed Mast|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "brentswain38" <brentswain38@h...> wrote:  > > $ 12,000 for the mast alone puts it right out of the question. My  > whole boat cost less than that. I don't think you could justify that  > kind of expense , unless you were so rich you'd never miss the money.   It's competitive with an extruded aluminum stick rig. It's an amazing price for a carbon stick that massive. He gets there by using carbon tow rather than fabric, and avoiding pre-pregs. Most importantly, you can build it in a barn. Very cool. Let's see if it breaks off when they sail it next. =^)|
9674|9668|2005-11-24 12:29:58|richytill|Re: Easyrig Unstayed Mast|Are you saying this whole rig is $13,900 installed as a working rig-- if so it's a steal.  Is that set up for hank on sails?  One Vancouver  company quoted around 50,000 for a BS 36 with roller furling and  sails, another quoted around 35,000 with sails.  Main and jib going  for around 7,000--8,500.  Is the rig new or used?  rt   --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "mickeyolaf" <mickeyolaf@y...>  wrote:  > > Commercial masts are expensive. I have a recent written quote from   a   > BC mast builder. A 47' aluminum mast including boom, cutter rig,  > with all of the bells and whistles, stood up, just add my sails and  > go: $13,900 CDN. >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "brentswain38"  > <brentswain38@h...> wrote: > > > > $ 12,000 for the mast alone puts it right out of the question. My  > > whole boat cost less than that. I don't think you could justify  > that  > > kind of expense , unless you were so rich you'd never miss the  > money. > > Brent > >  > >  > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "khooper_fboats"  > <bighouse@t...>  > > wrote: > > > > > >  > > > I don't know how many of you are interested in an unstayed rig,  > it  > > has > > > always been a fascination of mine. > > >  > > > Rob Denney has had in development a mast he calls "Easyrig", it  > is  > > an > > > unstayed carbon/epoxy mast intended for amateur construction.   He   > > uses > > > carbon tow, conventional epoxy and vacuum bagging in a form.  > Very  > > long > > > thin form. =^) > > >  > > > Rob is an Australian, he is unarguably the world's leading  > exponent  > > of > > > the proa craft, he is building some fantastic boats you can see  > at > > > http://www.harryproa.com . > > >  > > > He says in a message posted to Sailing Anarchy: > > >  > > > ----------------------------------- > > >  > > > We have just completed an 18m/60' unstayed mast for a 15m/50'  > > harryproa. > > >  > > > Some details: > > >  > > > Righting moment: 17,820 tonne metres/58,800 ton feet > > > Mast length: 18m/60', > > > Above deck: 16m/53' > > > Diameter at base: 300mm/12" > > > Diameter at tip: 100mm/4" > > > Safety factor: 2.5 > > > Designed weight of bare tube: 119 kgs/262 lbs > > > Actual weight of bare tube: 117 kgs/257 lbs > > > Designed deflection with 153 kgs/337 lbs midway along mast:  > 178mm/7" > > > Actual deflection with 153 kgs midway along the mast: 175mm/6.9" > > > Designed tip deflection at capsize: 2.9m/9'8" > > > Actual deflection at capsize: yet to be established! > > > Cost of mast painted with top and bottom fittings: > > > $AUS15,000/$US10,800/9,000 Euros > > > Additional cost for lightweight carbon rcb track bonded on: > > > $2,800/$US2,000/1,680 Euros > > >  > > > ------------------------------------- > > >  > > > Not sure what he is using for bearings, it is a rotating rig. > > >  > > > He doesn't appear to have plans available separately for the   rig,  > > > maybe that is coming, right now they are included in the plans  > for  > > the > > > proa. > > >  > > > --Ken > > > > > > |
9675|9641|2005-11-24 13:28:44|Michael Casling|Re: Mold question|I had sold my boat and then repurchased it. During the time of the other owner there developed some mould inside, under the decks. I think it was from lack of ventilation. I use a winter cover and open a forward hatch. Too much snow left on the decks by the interum owner would block the forward vent, and not allow the forward hatch to be open. Does not seem like much, but it was enough to create a problem. I have zero problems with my system.  Michael    ----- Original Message -----    From: mickeyolaf    To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com    Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2005 7:04 PM   Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Mold question     On my last boat (fiberglass) I had a condensation problem that made the boat damp. It    never got to the mold stage.   I opened the front hatch 6 inches, then lashed my dingy overtop so no-one could see it    open. I then cut a louvered 12" x 4" stainless vent into the covering boards. I then had flow    thru air front to back.    The differance was amazing. It dried out in weeks and stayed that way. I also opened every    cabinet, raised all of the cushions, lifted the floor boards. This might be all thats needed.    Much cheaper than buying solar vents.           --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "jericoera" <jericoera@y...> wrote:   >   > I would drill 1 inch holes in the plywood where you are putting the    > cushions no matter what kind of cushions they are. This may help    > increase ventilation in the locker or storage area below and would    > also allow any moisture you are giving off to pass through and be    > circulated in the boat and not trapped.     >    > I doubt it would weaken the bunk any unless you really got carried    > away with the drill. I have seen this in a V-Berth recently and    > thought it made good sense. If you have any coins or anything in    > your pockets however, they may end up under the mattress and fall    > through the holes making them potentially a pain to recover.   >    > Another alternative I am looking at is finding a type of strong    > gridded plastic like they use for horses to stand on when they bathe    > them. The grid has high strenth and excellent ventilation. It is    > also reasonably light weight.    >    > Most of the plywood that is half ass decent on the market is    > significantly over priced from what I can see.   >    > Carl M.   >    >    >    >    >    > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Michael Casling <casling@s...>    > wrote:   > >   > > The Army surplus store has wool blankets. We have used them for    > horse blankets to put on after an event where the horse got wet from    > sweat. You can use them as sacrificial covers / sponges on the boat.    > Or you can actually use them to keep warm.   > >    > > Michael   > >   ----- Original Message -----    > >   From: brentswain38    > >   To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com    > >   Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2005 11:47 AM   > >   Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Mold question   > >    > >    > >   Thats why I gave up on porous, fabric cushions 33 yewars ago. UI    > wnt    > >   for Vinyl and would never go back.I've had no such problem    > since. If    > >   you don't want to sleep on Vinyl, throw a quilt on it.   > >   With vinyl covers , nothing soaks in and if they get wet, you    > just    > >   wipe them. With fabric covers they stay wet until spring.   > >   The stuff with the 3.5 ounce polyester saturated with plastic is    > far    > >   tougher than normal upholstery and is actually cheaper.    > >    > >    > >    > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]   > >   >         To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com   To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com     ------------------------------------------------------------------------------   YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS       a..  Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web.            b..  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:      origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com            c..  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
9676|9676|2005-11-24 15:19:45|SHANE ROTHWELL|Mold Question|Princess Auto has small 12V fans for about $2.50 each. they draw nexty to nothing in terms of power. in building why not run wiring to ever vent opening and then carve a wooden plug that fits into the bottom of each vent with friction fit or a bit of foam round it & mount the wee fan into the plug. under way, stow the plug & when moored just stuff the unit into the vent, plug it in (to a solar pannel is best soas not to flatten battery) & walk away.  "Carving" the plug is easy. use 1" solid timber, cut inside hole (for the fan) with a hole saw, then use a larger hole saw for the outside diamiter that will fit snugly into the bottom of the vent. if the vent is of a size you have a hole saw for. use a jigsaw. finnish with a 18 grit disk on a grinder to round it off & maybe go a bit finer to finnish sand.   Watch the 16 grit disk on the grinder as it works really well on human flesh as well!  Worked a treat in Asia with temps averaging mid 30's & humidity about 95% in sumnmer.  Cheers, Shane   	  	 		 __________________________________________________________  Find your next car at http://autos.yahoo.ca|
9677|9651|2005-11-25 07:57:10|sae140|Re: The 200 pound millionaire by Weston Farmer  -  1932|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III" <ben_azo@h...> wrote:  > > Hi All , sorry guys , the Link I posted to the 45KB Wordpad > in Origamiboats2 was to long and is NOT working . > No problem , you will find the Wordpad over there in Files. > I found a direct Link to " boatpages " , see hereunder : >  > http://crip.moorey.net/toplevel/boatpages/stories/200gbpstory.html >  > enjoy if you like a good read . >  > Old Ben >     Nice one, Ben !  Bringing 'The £200 Millionaire' up to date ....  I came across this charming story a few years back in  Annie Hill's 'Voyaging on a Small Income' and wondered  then what the sums would be if the story were re-written  in today's economic climate, as much has changed since  1932 - for example, charges are now levied to travel  along the canals of Europe, and the expenses of mandatory qualifications & insurance now exist.  However, to stay with the core principle of the story -  exactly how much would £200 in 1932 be worth in today's  money ?  I know that in 1932 you could have bought a new  semi-detached house in the industrial Midlands of England  for £200 which would be worth somewhere around £150,000 at  today's prices - but I'm also aware that the Brit housing  market is artifically inflated (visitors to England -  beware !) - so here is what the experts  (http://www.eh.net/hmit/ukcompare/)  say for 2004 (which  is the latest year they compute for):-  In 2004, £200 from 1932 is worth:  £8,994.72 using the retail price index   £9,328.00 using the GDP deflator   £34,245.76 using average earnings   £42,829.25 using per capita GDP   £55,661.52 using the GDP   So, any figure is then gonna be a guess - but let's assume  £20,000 - being a little less than half-way between prices  and average earnings.    The bad news then - is that at the current high street  investment rate of 4.5%, you'd need around £500,000 capital  to achieve this income.  That's around 800,000 US Dollars.  The good news is that in practice you can sail around  European waters for a *lot* less than £20,000 a year -  well, providing you stay clear of UK marinas, of course !!  Colin|
9678|9651|2005-11-25 10:21:33|Gerd|Re: The 200 pound millionaire by Weston Farmer  -  1932|Thanks Colin, that little story has crept up so often that it sure  needed to get some of the dust shaken off.  On  the other hand that was maybe more adressed to people needing big  racing yachts or house employees or big estates  or other more visible  richesto be socially acceptable, and that found it hard to imagine  that you could live small, and on a boat, and be contented. the entire  live-aboard idea is new in this text.  What it really means is that if you live simple you will live on a low  income, and if you do qhat you like you are probably happy with it,  and that was a surpising concept for his readears of the time when  boating and yachting was socially not at all what it is today. There  is a lot of this same amazed feeling in the "riddle of the sands" as  well, when the narrator arrives on the middle of the night on this  tiny boat, and later when he is surprised by himself and the way he  adapts to the simple life aboard. (one of my all time favorite books)   so whatever the amount, the story was valid in context, but I guess  the style of life advertised there would fit most of todays cruising  people. And the little story itself has maybe motivated quite a few of  them..   Although that 200 pound millionaire would probaly be kicked of Brent's  boat for excessive luxury ;-)  Gerd    The Yago Project at http://www.justmueller.com/boats/   > Bringing 'The £200 Millionaire' up to date ....  ...  > So, any figure is then gonna be a guess - but let's assume  > £20,000 - being a little less than half-way between prices  > and average earnings. |
9679|9679|2005-11-25 14:52:13|jericoera|mirrors useage on boats|I recently had the opportunity to take a look at Brent's boat and I  noticed the excellent use of mirrors on it.  Brent is able to read the compass which is in the pilothouse behind  him and out of view from a postion laying down in his berth because  of strategic mirror placement.  From the comfort of bed he can check his position anytime he likes  without having to get up--that's one of the most practical things I  have seen yet especially for solo ocean crossings when you are in  need of rest.  The mirrors also reflect a lot of light and make the boat seem  immensely larger than it is.   I think it adds a lot asthetically and beyond that with the compass  reading example, you have increased safety.|
9680|9680|2005-11-25 16:41:49|Puck III|--  BoatWheels  --|" BoatWheels "  Hi All , off Topic but sure worth looking at :  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/boatwheels/  a New Yahoo Group with an interesting Topic working allready with the new Yahoo Photos system, just try the new system : all photos in Photo Albums , that have a ThumbnailPhoto intro with the usual middle-size enlargement and a second Large option for all viewers [if the original format is large enough]  I will place a permanent Link in Links.  Hoping you have an interest.  Old Ben   From: boatwheels moderator  Subject: Invitation to join the boatwheels group : http://groups.yahoo.com/group/boatwheels/  Activity within 7 days: Many new Photos - 9 New Links - 1 New Message - 11 New Files   Welcome All .   The "Boatwheels" Group is intended as a Repository and a place for sharing information and ideas about boatwheels .   The Group is in its early stages and very incomplete.   We welcome all information , photos , links and directions to make this Yahoo Group  a fine HUB for the interested.   If you think this Group can add anything to the boating community you belong to , please mention it in each category :  -small and large boats,  -monohulls and multihulls ,   -professional and private applications .   I follow the Microship adventures since many years .   The SeaLegs development story shows innovative thinking is neverending ,just see all the applications from independant rescue to help for  the handicaped.   Marina berths and slip's become hard to obtain,prices are on the rise. Being independant from harbours,ports and marinas could be an option.   Worth considering ???  Just wondering how much it will really add to the costs and safety.   Personally I think a communal or commercial solution as a "Amphibious Travellift Boat" sure is worth studying so preliminary design will be posted for evaluation.    Thanks for your time.    The moderator.  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/boatwheels/|
9681|9651|2005-11-25 17:55:09|Puck III|Re: The 200 pound millionaire by Weston Farmer  -  1932|http://crip.moorey.net/toplevel/boatpages/stories/200gbpstory.html enjoy if you like a good read . Old Ben -------------------------------- Nice one, Ben !   Bringing 'The £200 Millionaire' up to date ....  I came across this charming story a few years back in  Annie Hill's 'Voyaging on a Small Income' and wondered  then what the sums would be if the story were re-written  in today's economic climate, as much has changed since  1932 - for example, charges are now levied to travel  along the canals of Europe, and the expenses of mandatory qualifications & insurance now exist.   The good news is that in practice you can sail around  European waters for a *lot* less than £20,000 a year -  well, providing you stay clear of UK marinas, of course !!   Colin ------------------------------------------------------------- Colin , I was charged for a mooring on the Beaulieu river , I was so surprized rivers can be private in the UK :-) Old Ben ------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks Colin, that little story has crept up so often that it sure needed to get some of the dust shaken off.  .. the entire live-aboard idea is new in this text.  What it really means is that if you live simple you will live on a low income, and if you do what you like you are probably happy with it.  There is a lot of this same amazed feeling in the "riddle of the  sands" as well, when the narrator arrives on the middle of the night  on this tiny boat, and later when he is surprised by himself and the  way he adapts to the simple life aboard. (one of my all time favorite books)  .... the story was valid in context, but I guess the style of life  advertised there would fit most of todays cruising people. And the  little story itself has maybe motivated quite a few of them..  Gerd ------------------------------------------------------------------ Hi All ,Hi Colin , Hi Gerd , I think that going back to basics can be a real enrichment , I loved the Time considerations from David Seidman in Slow Cruising see the Link hereunder .  File : /Cruising05.jpg uploaded to the Files of origamiboats2group. Uploaded by : ben_azo <ben_azo@...> OB slow cruising by David Seidman You can access this file at the URL: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats2/files/Cruising05.jpg  Gerd please post us some good Links for the "riddle of the sands" , I never had the opportunity to read that book , but I wonder if I haven't seen a rather popular television serie made afther that book ? If I am not mistaken they converted a lifeboat to turn the boatscenes [ beautifull film , available on video?? ]  I wonder if you both never dreamed of " riding the sands " ???  For riding a man need wheels :-)  A new good Link for wheels :  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/boatwheels/  something for the mechanicaly thinking..........  Old Ben|
9682|9668|2005-11-25 20:15:31|mickeyolaf|Re: Easyrig Unstayed Mast|Mast and boom, no sails, no furling. Hank on sails.       -- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "richytill" <tillrc@h...> wrote:  > > Are you saying this whole rig is $13,900 installed as a working rig-- > if so it's a steal.  Is that set up for hank on sails?  One Vancouver  > company quoted around 50,000 for a BS 36 with roller furling and  > sails, another quoted around 35,000 with sails.  Main and jib going  > for around 7,000--8,500.  Is the rig new or used?  rt >  >  > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "mickeyolaf" <mickeyolaf@y...>  > wrote: > > > > Commercial masts are expensive. I have a recent written quote from  > a  > > BC mast builder. A 47' aluminum mast including boom, cutter rig,  > > with all of the bells and whistles, stood up, just add my sails and  > > go: $13,900 CDN. > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "brentswain38"  > > <brentswain38@h...> wrote: > > > > > > $ 12,000 for the mast alone puts it right out of the question. My  > > > whole boat cost less than that. I don't think you could justify  > > that  > > > kind of expense , unless you were so rich you'd never miss the  > > money. > > > Brent > > >  > > >  > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "khooper_fboats"  > > <bighouse@t...>  > > > wrote: > > > > > > > >  > > > > I don't know how many of you are interested in an unstayed rig,  > > it  > > > has > > > > always been a fascination of mine. > > > >  > > > > Rob Denney has had in development a mast he calls "Easyrig", it  > > is  > > > an > > > > unstayed carbon/epoxy mast intended for amateur construction.  > He  > > > uses > > > > carbon tow, conventional epoxy and vacuum bagging in a form.  > > Very  > > > long > > > > thin form. =^) > > > >  > > > > Rob is an Australian, he is unarguably the world's leading  > > exponent  > > > of > > > > the proa craft, he is building some fantastic boats you can see  > > at > > > > http://www.harryproa.com . > > > >  > > > > He says in a message posted to Sailing Anarchy: > > > >  > > > > ----------------------------------- > > > >  > > > > We have just completed an 18m/60' unstayed mast for a 15m/50'  > > > harryproa. > > > >  > > > > Some details: > > > >  > > > > Righting moment: 17,820 tonne metres/58,800 ton feet > > > > Mast length: 18m/60', > > > > Above deck: 16m/53' > > > > Diameter at base: 300mm/12" > > > > Diameter at tip: 100mm/4" > > > > Safety factor: 2.5 > > > > Designed weight of bare tube: 119 kgs/262 lbs > > > > Actual weight of bare tube: 117 kgs/257 lbs > > > > Designed deflection with 153 kgs/337 lbs midway along mast:  > > 178mm/7" > > > > Actual deflection with 153 kgs midway along the mast: 175mm/6.9" > > > > Designed tip deflection at capsize: 2.9m/9'8" > > > > Actual deflection at capsize: yet to be established! > > > > Cost of mast painted with top and bottom fittings: > > > > $AUS15,000/$US10,800/9,000 Euros > > > > Additional cost for lightweight carbon rcb track bonded on: > > > > $2,800/$US2,000/1,680 Euros > > > >  > > > > ------------------------------------- > > > >  > > > > Not sure what he is using for bearings, it is a rotating rig. > > > >  > > > > He doesn't appear to have plans available separately for the  > rig, > > > > maybe that is coming, right now they are included in the plans  > > for  > > > the > > > > proa. > > > >  > > > > --Ken > > > > > > > > > > |
9683|9651|2005-11-26 06:22:52|Gerd|Re: The 200 pound millionaire by Weston Farmer  -  1932|Old Ben, you can find childer's Riddle Of The Sands (and tons of other  stuff) at the gutenber project: http://www.gutenberg.org/etext/2360  Enjoy ;-)  Gerd|
9684|9684|2005-11-26 13:16:01|liaa19701970|find  more  HOT  packages  from   http://keralaholidays.info/Packag|find  more  HOT  packages  from   http://keralaholidays.info/Packages.php|
9685|9668|2005-11-26 13:53:52|brentswain38|Re: Easyrig Unstayed Mast|I think the rig for my 31 footer cost around $300 or less. A roller  furler costs less than $100 for materials and $60 for welding. Brent   --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "mickeyolaf" <mickeyolaf@y...>  wrote:  > > Mast and boom, no sails, no furling. Hank on sails.  >  >  >  >  >  > -- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "richytill" <tillrc@h...> wrote: > > > > Are you saying this whole rig is $13,900 installed as a working   rig--  > > if so it's a steal.  Is that set up for hank on sails?  One   Vancouver   > > company quoted around 50,000 for a BS 36 with roller furling and  > > sails, another quoted around 35,000 with sails.  Main and jib   going   > > for around 7,000--8,500.  Is the rig new or used?  rt > >  > >  > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "mickeyolaf"   <mickeyolaf@y...>   > > wrote: > > > > > > Commercial masts are expensive. I have a recent written quote   from   > > a  > > > BC mast builder. A 47' aluminum mast including boom, cutter   rig,   > > > with all of the bells and whistles, stood up, just add my sails   and   > > > go: $13,900 CDN. > > >  > > >  > > >  > > >  > > >  > > >  > > >  > > >  > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "brentswain38"  > > > <brentswain38@h...> wrote: > > > > > > > > $ 12,000 for the mast alone puts it right out of the   question. My   > > > > whole boat cost less than that. I don't think you could   justify   > > > that  > > > > kind of expense , unless you were so rich you'd never miss   the   > > > money. > > > > Brent > > > >  > > > >  > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "khooper_fboats"  > > > <bighouse@t...>  > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > >  > > > > > I don't know how many of you are interested in an unstayed   rig,   > > > it  > > > > has > > > > > always been a fascination of mine. > > > > >  > > > > > Rob Denney has had in development a mast he   calls "Easyrig", it   > > > is  > > > > an > > > > > unstayed carbon/epoxy mast intended for amateur   construction.   > > He  > > > > uses > > > > > carbon tow, conventional epoxy and vacuum bagging in a   form.   > > > Very  > > > > long > > > > > thin form. =^) > > > > >  > > > > > Rob is an Australian, he is unarguably the world's leading  > > > exponent  > > > > of > > > > > the proa craft, he is building some fantastic boats you can   see   > > > at > > > > > http://www.harryproa.com . > > > > >  > > > > > He says in a message posted to Sailing Anarchy: > > > > >  > > > > > ----------------------------------- > > > > >  > > > > > We have just completed an 18m/60' unstayed mast for a   15m/50'   > > > > harryproa. > > > > >  > > > > > Some details: > > > > >  > > > > > Righting moment: 17,820 tonne metres/58,800 ton feet > > > > > Mast length: 18m/60', > > > > > Above deck: 16m/53' > > > > > Diameter at base: 300mm/12" > > > > > Diameter at tip: 100mm/4" > > > > > Safety factor: 2.5 > > > > > Designed weight of bare tube: 119 kgs/262 lbs > > > > > Actual weight of bare tube: 117 kgs/257 lbs > > > > > Designed deflection with 153 kgs/337 lbs midway along mast:  > > > 178mm/7" > > > > > Actual deflection with 153 kgs midway along the mast:   175mm/6.9"  > > > > > Designed tip deflection at capsize: 2.9m/9'8" > > > > > Actual deflection at capsize: yet to be established! > > > > > Cost of mast painted with top and bottom fittings: > > > > > $AUS15,000/$US10,800/9,000 Euros > > > > > Additional cost for lightweight carbon rcb track bonded on: > > > > > $2,800/$US2,000/1,680 Euros > > > > >  > > > > > ------------------------------------- > > > > >  > > > > > Not sure what he is using for bearings, it is a rotating   rig.  > > > > >  > > > > > He doesn't appear to have plans available separately for   the   > > rig, > > > > > maybe that is coming, right now they are included in the   plans   > > > for  > > > > the > > > > > proa. > > > > >  > > > > > --Ken > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > |
9686|9676|2005-11-26 13:59:41|brentswain38|Re: Mold Question|I just put such a fan under my cockpit coamings . When I've been  motoring I leave it on overnight and it gets rid of any diesel smell  and heat, a great improvement . It draws milliamps, a tiny fraction  of what  my solar panels put back ,even on a cloudy day .I could  leave it on full time  Brent  --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, SHANE ROTHWELL  <rockrothwell@y...> wrote:  > > Princess Auto has small 12V fans for about $2.50 each. > they draw nexty to nothing in terms of power. in > building why not run wiring to ever vent opening and > then carve a wooden plug that fits into the bottom of > each vent with friction fit or a bit of foam round it > & mount the wee fan into the plug. under way, stow the > plug & when moored just stuff the unit into the vent, > plug it in (to a solar pannel is best soas not to > flatten battery) & walk away. >  > "Carving" the plug is easy. use 1" solid timber, cut > inside hole (for the fan) with a hole saw, then use a > larger hole saw for the outside diamiter that will fit > snugly into the bottom of the vent. if the vent is of > a size you have a hole saw for. use a jigsaw. finnish > with a 18 grit disk on a grinder to round it off & > maybe go a bit finer to finnish sand.  >  > Watch the 16 grit disk on the grinder as it works > really well on human flesh as well! >  > Worked a treat in Asia with temps averaging mid 30's & > humidity about 95% in sumnmer. >  > Cheers, > Shane >  >  > 	 >  > 	 > 		 > __________________________________________________________  > Find your next car at http://autos.yahoo.ca > |
9687|9651|2005-11-26 18:10:52|Puck III|Re: The 200 pound millionaire by Weston Farmer  -  1932|Thanks a lot Gerd for the great Link you posted .  Indeed tons of other stuff to , you mentioned the Gutenberg.org before when we discussed the eBook " Dream Building ". http://www.gutenberg.org/etext/2360 sure is in my Favorites now . Dulcibella was a name I lost , it sure came back cause I saw the TV serie . Classic Boat UK did an article about the converted lifeboat , used to turn the film with.  The Link for the Video is : http://www.cedmagic.com/featured/riddle-sands/riddle-sands.html  I sailed the Friesian waters and I must say that adventures on the "wadden" or swallows were extreemly well filmed .  A must read or see by the shallow-draft boatlovers :-)  I think Maurice Griffith wrote an ode to the shallow waters to, just can't remember the title.  Thanks again Old Ben   --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Gerd" <yago@j...> wrote: > > Old Ben, you can find childer's Riddle Of The Sands (and tons of  other  > stuff) at the gutenber project: http://www.gutenberg.org/etext/2360 >  > Enjoy ;-) >  > Gerd > |
9688|9343|2005-11-26 20:56:59|mickeyolaf|Re: Hillrange Alcohol Stove|I still have the stove but a builder in CA is interested in it. Unfortunately it is $100 to ship  it to him. I just left him a voicemail so we'll see if he wants it when he calls back.  It is 20 1/2" wide by 17 1/2" deep by 22" high. The cutout framing would be larger to  allow it to swing as it is gimbled. It is all stainless and has never been installed. The tank  has a bracket to bulkhead mount it and a gauge on it re the pressure. You use a bicycle  pump to pump up the tank.       --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Michael Casling <casling@s...> wrote: > > I am interested. I have a Richmond Ring stove that uses pressurized alcohol and I want  to change to kerosene. > If it is easier to change the Hillrange then I would be interested. I will need dimensions.  > I will be in Vancouver for the boat show in February. Might be down sooner but not  positive. > Michael in Kelowna >   ----- Original Message -----  >   From: mickeyolaf  >   To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com  >   Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2005 10:59 AM >   Subject: [origamiboats] Hillrange Alcohol Stove >  >  >   If anyone is interested in a gimbled new all stainless steel 2 burner  >   with oven marine alcohol stove let me know. It has the pressure tank  >   and mounts with it, has never been used. Hillranges are convertable to  >   kersosene or diesel or overproof rum by changing out the burners or  >   keep it on alcohol. It's available for $100.00 including the tank. I'm  >   in Burnaby at 778-837-5725. >  >  >  >  >  >   To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com >   To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats- unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com  >  >  >  >   SPONSORED LINKS British columbia canada  Vancouver island  Yacht   >         Victoria bc   >  >  >  ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- >   YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS  >  >     a..  Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web. >        >     b..  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >      origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com >        >     c..  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.  >  >  >  ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- >  >  >  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > |
9689|9343|2005-11-26 21:37:51|Michael Casling|Re: Hillrange Alcohol Stove|I will measure my boat Sunday morning. Going to a Grey Cup party after that and will be out of town on Monday but will report back. Apparently the Grey Cup is supposed to be for a rugby game. I will remind everyone of that many times. Made a clacker yesterday.  Michael    ----- Original Message -----    From: mickeyolaf    To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com    Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2005 5:55 PM   Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Hillrange Alcohol Stove     I still have the stove but a builder in CA is interested in it. Unfortunately it is $100 to ship    it to him. I just left him a voicemail so we'll see if he wants it when he calls back.    It is 20 1/2" wide by 17 1/2" deep by 22" high. The cutout framing would be larger to    allow it to swing as it is gimbled. It is all stainless and has never been installed. The tank    has a bracket to bulkhead mount it and a gauge on it re the pressure. You use a bicycle    pump to pump up the tank.        --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Michael Casling <casling@s...> wrote:   >   > I am interested. I have a Richmond Ring stove that uses pressurized alcohol and I want    to change to kerosene.   > If it is easier to change the Hillrange then I would be interested. I will need dimensions.    > I will be in Vancouver for the boat show in February. Might be down sooner but not    positive.   > Michael in Kelowna   >   ----- Original Message -----    >   From: mickeyolaf    >   To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com    >   Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2005 10:59 AM   >   Subject: [origamiboats] Hillrange Alcohol Stove   >    >    >   If anyone is interested in a gimbled new all stainless steel 2 burner    >   with oven marine alcohol stove let me know. It has the pressure tank    >   and mounts with it, has never been used. Hillranges are convertable to    >   kersosene or diesel or overproof rum by changing out the burners or    >   keep it on alcohol. It's available for $100.00 including the tank. I'm    >   in Burnaby at 778-837-5725.   >    >    >    >    >    >   To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com   >   To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-   unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com    >    >    >    >   SPONSORED LINKS British columbia canada  Vancouver island  Yacht     >         Victoria bc     >    >    >    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------   --   >   YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS    >    >     a..  Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web.   >          >     b..  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:   >      origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com   >          >     c..  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.    >    >    >    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------   --   >    >    >    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]   >         To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com   To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com       SPONSORED LINKS British columbia canada  Vancouver island  Yacht           Victoria bc     ------------------------------------------------------------------------------   YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS       a..  Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web.            b..  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:      origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com            c..  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
9690|9641|2005-11-26 22:01:35|seeratlas|Re: Mold question|Best setup I've seen and will save you a bunch of weight AND improve ventilation where you want to store things under bunk, is woven slats.  use the webbing they use for beach chairs, and just weave over and under in about 3 or 4 rows. Then you pull the mattress, and roll up the slats and you have full access to the underbunk area without having to move a huge piece of heavy plywood around.  I suppose you could use fibreglass 'battens' for the slats too. They don't have to go all the way across if you are building in a queen size :) put a vertical rip down the center etc. lol.  seer   --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "jericoera" <jericoera@y...> wrote: > > I would drill 1 inch holes in the plywood where you are putting the  > cushions no matter what kind of cushions they are. This may help  > increase ventilation in the locker or storage area below and would  > also allow any moisture you are giving off to pass through and be  > circulated in the boat and not trapped.   >  > I doubt it would weaken the bunk any unless you really got carried  > away with the drill. I have seen this in a V-Berth recently and  > thought it made good sense. If you have any coins or anything in  > your pockets however, they may end up under the mattress and fall  > through the holes making them potentially a pain to recover. >  > Another alternative I am looking at is finding a type of strong  > gridded plastic like they use for horses to stand on when they bathe  > them. The grid has high strenth and excellent ventilation. It is  > also reasonably light weight.  >  > Most of the plywood that is half ass decent on the market is  > significantly over priced from what I can see. >  > Carl M. >  >  >  >  >  > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Michael Casling <casling@s...>  > wrote: > > > > The Army surplus store has wool blankets. We have used them for  > horse blankets to put on after an event where the horse got wet from  > sweat. You can use them as sacrificial covers / sponges on the boat.  > Or you can actually use them to keep warm. > >  > > Michael > >   ----- Original Message -----  > >   From: brentswain38  > >   To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com  > >   Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2005 11:47 AM > >   Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Mold question > >  > >  > >   Thats why I gave up on porous, fabric cushions 33 yewars ago. UI  > wnt  > >   for Vinyl and would never go back.I've had no such problem  > since. If  > >   you don't want to sleep on Vinyl, throw a quilt on it. > >   With vinyl covers , nothing soaks in and if they get wet, you  > just  > >   wipe them. With fabric covers they stay wet until spring. > >   The stuff with the 3.5 ounce polyester saturated with plastic is  > far  > >   tougher than normal upholstery and is actually cheaper.  > >  > >  > >  > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > |
9691|9668|2005-11-26 22:08:12|seeratlas|Re: Easyrig Unstayed Mast|I was looking at unstayed masts for my boat but the fibre masts seem to me to be lacking in abrasion durability.  I'm no expert but has anyone seen any long lived cruising graphite or other fibre masts?  I havn't so I'm going for stayed steel, but in the schooner config, no spreaders.  To my mind the main advantage of unstayed is to let the mast bend and bleed off excess power.  I can do the same thing with my  gaffs by letting them bleed off by easing the peak halyards.  seer   --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "khooper_fboats" <bighouse@t...> wrote:  > >  > I don't know how many of you are interested in an unstayed rig, it has > always been a fascination of mine. >  > Rob Denney has had in development a mast he calls "Easyrig", it is an > unstayed carbon/epoxy mast intended for amateur construction. He uses > carbon tow, conventional epoxy and vacuum bagging in a form. Very long > thin form. =^) >  > Rob is an Australian, he is unarguably the world's leading exponent of > the proa craft, he is building some fantastic boats you can see at > http://www.harryproa.com . >  > He says in a message posted to Sailing Anarchy: >  > ----------------------------------- >  > We have just completed an 18m/60' unstayed mast for a 15m/50' harryproa. >  > Some details: >  > Righting moment: 17,820 tonne metres/58,800 ton feet > Mast length: 18m/60', > Above deck: 16m/53' > Diameter at base: 300mm/12" > Diameter at tip: 100mm/4" > Safety factor: 2.5 > Designed weight of bare tube: 119 kgs/262 lbs > Actual weight of bare tube: 117 kgs/257 lbs > Designed deflection with 153 kgs/337 lbs midway along mast: 178mm/7" > Actual deflection with 153 kgs midway along the mast: 175mm/6.9" > Designed tip deflection at capsize: 2.9m/9'8" > Actual deflection at capsize: yet to be established! > Cost of mast painted with top and bottom fittings: > $AUS15,000/$US10,800/9,000 Euros > Additional cost for lightweight carbon rcb track bonded on: > $2,800/$US2,000/1,680 Euros >  > ------------------------------------- >  > Not sure what he is using for bearings, it is a rotating rig. >  > He doesn't appear to have plans available separately for the rig, > maybe that is coming, right now they are included in the plans for the > proa. >  > --Ken > |
9692|9641|2005-11-27 05:22:42|edward_stoneuk|Re: Mold question (Webbing)|Seer, I thought about using woven webbing as a base for bunks as I have some  that came from the rigging of a hot air balloon.  The problem that I  foresee is tensioning it so that it doesn't sag like a hammock.  That  can give one a bad back.  To keep tension one would need a strong  frame and probably a means of adjusting individual webbing straps.  Do  you have any good ideas on that? Regards, Ted|
9693|9641|2005-11-27 05:32:14|edward_stoneuk|Re: Mold question (Webbing & Slats)|Seer, I have just reread your post.  I see that you were talking about  wooden slats with the webbing keeping them in position and I guess  taking some of the bending moment.  I have seen similar set ups with,  I think, rubber spacers. The wooden slats seemed to be curved so they  didn't sag so much when a body lay on them. Regards, Ted|
9694|9343|2005-11-27 07:49:09|cirejay|Re: Hillrange Alcohol Stove|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Michael Casling <casling@s...>  wrote:  > > I will measure my boat Sunday morning. > Going to a Grey Cup party after that and will be out of town on   Monday but will report back.  > Apparently the Grey Cup is supposed to be for a rugby game. I will   remind everyone of that many times.  Football actually but, heck, a party is a party, is a party.  eric S/V Nebaras|
9695|9641|2005-11-27 08:12:14|sae140|Re: Mold question|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "seeratlas" <seeratlas@y...>  wrote:  > > use the webbing they use for beach chairs, and just weave over and > under in about 3 or 4 rows.    A good source of webbing is car (auto) seat belts - the  wreckers *always* have this stuff in abundance - usually  for free.  Strong, light, almost indestructible.  And  flexible - so ideal for making 'under-the-jacket' harnesses.   But suggest that old truck rachet straps (a lot stiffer) is  used for belts (especially weight belts).  In both cases,  cut with a hot knife and join by overlapping with a small  blob of epoxy in-between. Hold together with clothes-pegs  while you run stitch holes through with a red-hot needle  - then stitch together as if you were repairing leather  harness. The last use I found for this stuff was to glue a length  onto the bottom of a plastic dinghy as a sacrificial wear  strip.   A hammock ? - now there's a thought .....  Colin|
9696|9668|2005-11-27 09:21:00|Denis Buggy|Re: Easyrig Unstayed Mast|dear seer there is  a excellent book  " offshore crusing encyclopedia by linda and steve dashew " of all the books i have bought to move my project forward this has the most important and the most ledigble information , this book has been mentioned before in this group and it contains a good section on  spars and rigs with graphs and tables of stress figures from manufactures of spars masts  rigging ect if i can help contact me at denis@.... on a recent topic  steel cats which is my project  i would like to assist in any way i can however my design requires me to construct two very long and very slim hulls and the hulls must be also be the trailor chassis  structure in order for me to  move the boat in sections prior to assembly at the coast as the structure cannot be moved in its assembled state . the stresses  on the structure for moving and for coping with a bolted  assembly    do not allow for orgami building methods in the framing  and are therefore divisive topics for this group ., ( i am not a sailor  however my co does some engineering  ) i would like to offer any help i can to this group and i am greatful for all the help given to me however i do not intend to make metal cats a topic  and anybody who is interested in metal cats  can contact me on the above address . also on a related topic does anybody know anything about this sandblasting process which they claim to sandblast a 30ft boat in three hours  with  a small amount of  warm water and air and grit  " farrowsystem.com " i have e mailed the co for a quote for a simple system however i did not get a reply and it seems to be franchised out not sold as a unit and all booking of the unit seems to be booked through the inventor--co .  regards to all denis     ----- Original Message -----    From: seeratlas    To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com    Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2005 3:07 AM   Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Easyrig Unstayed Mast     I was looking at unstayed masts for my boat but the fibre masts seem   to me to be lacking in abrasion durability.  I'm no expert but has   anyone seen any long lived cruising graphite or other fibre masts?  I   havn't so I'm going for stayed steel, but in the schooner config, no   spreaders.  To my mind the main advantage of unstayed is to let the   mast bend and bleed off excess power.  I can do the same thing with my   gaffs by letting them bleed off by easing the peak halyards.    seer     --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "khooper_fboats" <bighouse@t...>   wrote:   >   >    > I don't know how many of you are interested in an unstayed rig, it has   > always been a fascination of mine.   >    > Rob Denney has had in development a mast he calls "Easyrig", it is an   > unstayed carbon/epoxy mast intended for amateur construction. He uses   > carbon tow, conventional epoxy and vacuum bagging in a form. Very long   > thin form. =^)   >    > Rob is an Australian, he is unarguably the world's leading exponent of   > the proa craft, he is building some fantastic boats you can see at   > http://www.harryproa.com .   >    > He says in a message posted to Sailing Anarchy:   >    > -----------------------------------   >    > We have just completed an 18m/60' unstayed mast for a 15m/50' harryproa.   >    > Some details:   >    > Righting moment: 17,820 tonne metres/58,800 ton feet   > Mast length: 18m/60',   > Above deck: 16m/53'   > Diameter at base: 300mm/12"   > Diameter at tip: 100mm/4"   > Safety factor: 2.5   > Designed weight of bare tube: 119 kgs/262 lbs   > Actual weight of bare tube: 117 kgs/257 lbs   > Designed deflection with 153 kgs/337 lbs midway along mast: 178mm/7"   > Actual deflection with 153 kgs midway along the mast: 175mm/6.9"   > Designed tip deflection at capsize: 2.9m/9'8"   > Actual deflection at capsize: yet to be established!   > Cost of mast painted with top and bottom fittings:   > $AUS15,000/$US10,800/9,000 Euros   > Additional cost for lightweight carbon rcb track bonded on:   > $2,800/$US2,000/1,680 Euros   >    > -------------------------------------   >    > Not sure what he is using for bearings, it is a rotating rig.   >    > He doesn't appear to have plans available separately for the rig,   > maybe that is coming, right now they are included in the plans for the   > proa.   >    > --Ken   >         To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com   To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com     ------------------------------------------------------------------------------   YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS       a..  Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web.            b..  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:      origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com            c..  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
9697|9668|2005-11-27 12:32:01|SHANE ROTHWELL|Re: Easyrig Unstayed Mast|Hi Guys,  For me it's going to be Stayed Steel as well (on a tabernacle) if it's possible to have internal halyards, otherwise I suppose it will have to be an alloy spar which I'm not fond of having seen the results of them going overside. Not pretty!  However, to have posative righting ability it has to be sealed doesn't it? But how to set it up with internal halyards if the mast is sealed? External halyards are noisy as hell & want to avoid perpetual slatting of halyards against the rig if I can. Is this possible?   Have been thinking of mounting 2" ABS tubes (painted for UV protection) either side of the mainsail trac for the falls of the halyards to run down (either way you are going to have the leads of the halyards exposed to wind & wether, but they can be lead away from rigging to avoid slatting as with the "usual" alloy spar).   This way you get the best of both worlds, the falls of the halyards are encompassed to shut em up, the spar can then be sealed for posative righting motion in a rollover, you have a steel spar which is stronger than anything else - isn't it, and the additional weight of the ABS tubes would be nominal.  The profile of the spar with ABS tubes would be sort of triangular with rounded corners with the spar out forward and the ABS tubes either side of the mainsail track, so positioned on each of the aft quarters of the spar itself.   Yes, some modification of the mast truck would be needed so that the falls of the halyards line up with the top of the ABS tubes for a nice clean run of the halyard through the ABS tube & at the bottom end you just mount your halyard winches so they line up cleanly with the botm of the ABS tubes.  Any thoughts/comments on this lads? Or do I have my head on backwards?  Cheers, Shane   	  	 		 __________________________________________________________  Find your next car at http://autos.yahoo.ca|
9698|9668|2005-11-27 20:31:13|tom|Re: Easyrig Unstayed Mast|Hello Shane   I think the main reason you have to seal up a steel mast is for corosion,  it would be prettey hard to paint the inside and maintain it. I wouldnt  think the flotation of the mast would be that big of a factor , the boat  should be designed to uprite itself with or without the mast allthough it  would help. halard noise is allways a problem my race boat has internal and  they clunk inside the mast. Your idea of running pvc up the mast might work  but im not sure how it would look finished  ----- Original Message -----  From: "SHANE ROTHWELL" <rockrothwell@...> To: <origamiboats@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2005 9:31 AM Subject: [origamiboats] RE: Easyrig Unstayed Mast   > Hi Guys, > > For me it's going to be Stayed Steel as well (on a > tabernacle) if it's possible to have internal > halyards, otherwise I suppose it will have to be an > alloy spar which I'm not fond of having seen the > results of them going overside. Not pretty! > > However, to have posative righting ability it has to > be sealed doesn't it? But how to set it up with > internal halyards if the mast is sealed? External > halyards are noisy as hell & want to avoid perpetual > slatting of halyards against the rig if I can. Is this > possible? > > Have been thinking of mounting 2" ABS tubes (painted > for UV protection) either side of the mainsail trac > for the falls of the halyards to run down (either way > you are going to have the leads of the halyards > exposed to wind & wether, but they can be lead away > from rigging to avoid slatting as with the "usual" > alloy spar). > > This way you get the best of both worlds, the falls of > the halyards are encompassed to shut em up, the spar > can then be sealed for posative righting motion in a > rollover, you have a steel spar which is stronger than > anything else - isn't it, and the additional weight of > the ABS tubes would be nominal. > > The profile of the spar with ABS tubes would be sort > of triangular with rounded corners with the spar out > forward and the ABS tubes either side of the mainsail > track, so positioned on each of the aft quarters of > the spar itself. > > Yes, some modification of the mast truck would be > needed so that the falls of the halyards line up with > the top of the ABS tubes for a nice clean run of the > halyard through the ABS tube & at the bottom end you > just mount your halyard winches so they line up > cleanly with the botm of the ABS tubes. > > Any thoughts/comments on this lads? Or do I have my > head on backwards? > > Cheers, > Shane > > > > > > > __________________________________________________________ > Find your next car at http://autos.yahoo.ca > > > > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:  > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > |
9699|9668|2005-11-28 06:48:23|sae140|Re: Easyrig Unstayed Mast|Over on the Junkrig group there are photos of Pete Hill's cat showing the (wooden) unstayed masts in their tabernacles -  dunno if that might be relevant to your project ?   > also on a related topic does anybody know anything about this   sandblasting process which they claim to sandblast a 30ft boat in  three hours  with  a small amount of  warm water and air and grit   > " farrowsystem.com "    Loddon, Norfolk is not too far from here - I know the area -  have written enquiring about a demo ....   They stress the "gentleness" of their process, so I've a  nasty feeling that the resulting surface will be far too smooth  for white steel to take primer. We'll see. Like yourself - I'm picking up the vibe that their principle  interest is in franchising the equipment.  Colin|
9700|9668|2005-11-28 09:55:17|Ray|Re: Easyrig Unstayed Mast|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "khooper_fboats" <bighouse@t...>  wrote: <SNIP>    > It's competitive with an extruded aluminum stick rig. It's an amazing > price for a carbon stick that massive. He gets there by using carbon > tow rather than fabric, and avoiding pre-pregs. Most importantly, you > can build it in a barn. Very cool. Let's see if it breaks off when > they sail it next. =^)   Help me out - what is Carbon "Tow" - I'm not familiar with the term.   Thanks!   Ray Kimbro|
9701|9668|2005-11-28 13:30:19|khooper_fboats|Re: Easyrig Unstayed Mast|> Help me out - what is Carbon "Tow" - I'm not familiar with the term.    Tow is the individual carbon fibers, rather than fabric which is made from woven tow. Tow comes on reels and it is supposed to be a bear to handle. That pretty much exhausts my knowledge of the subject. =^)  --Ken|
9702|9668|2005-11-28 14:52:50|Ray|Re: Easyrig Unstayed Mast|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "khooper_fboats" <bighouse@t...>  wrote:  > >   > > Help me out - what is Carbon "Tow" - I'm not familiar with the   term.   >  > Tow is the individual carbon fibers, rather than fabric which is   made  > from woven tow. Tow comes on reels and it is supposed to be a bear   to  > handle. That pretty much exhausts my knowledge of the subject. =^) >  > --Ken >  Thanks - I learned something today. 2 things, actually - 1)  What "TOW" is, and 2) A decision, having worked with different kinds  of FRP matting/cloth in the past, that I'd NEVER personally consider  working w/the raw fibers/strands not already woven into the cloth.    :-)|
9703|9703|2005-11-28 19:20:08|a_admi|Tom's BS  26|I am impressed by the 3 new pics posted by Tom . Except for the chine I see no weld marks in  the 27nov 003 + 004 pics  Any special technique used to achieve that ??|
9704|9703|2005-11-28 23:25:21|tom|Re: Tom's BS  26|Thanks   The upper stiffner I welded before folding and somewhat cold welded IE 1/8" 6011 at about 80 amps with 1-1/2" long welds every 12" . the weld marks are there its just hard to see in picture, The bottom stiffner I put in after and welded the same but had a heck of a time pushing it to the curves of the hull and it did distort the plating a little, if I had it to do again I would use 1/8" angle iron instead of 3/16"  ----- Original Message -----  From: "a_admi" <a_admi@...> To: <origamiboats@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, November 28, 2005 4:19 PM Subject: [origamiboats] Tom's BS 26   >I am impressed by the 3 new pics posted by Tom . > Except for the chine I see no weld marks in > the 27nov 003 + 004 pics > Any special technique used to achieve that ?? > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > |
9705|9668|2005-11-29 03:54:20|Denis Buggy|Re: Easyrig Unstayed Mast|thanks colin . denis    ----- Original Message -----    From: sae140    To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com    Sent: Monday, November 28, 2005 11:48 AM   Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Easyrig Unstayed Mast     Over on the Junkrig group there are photos of Pete Hill's cat   showing the (wooden) unstayed masts in their tabernacles -    dunno if that might be relevant to your project ?    > also on a related topic does anybody know anything about this    sandblasting process which they claim to sandblast a 30ft boat in    three hours  with  a small amount of  warm water and air and grit    > " farrowsystem.com "     Loddon, Norfolk is not too far from here - I know the area -    have written enquiring about a demo ....     They stress the "gentleness" of their process, so I've a    nasty feeling that the resulting surface will be far too smooth    for white steel to take primer. We'll see.   Like yourself - I'm picking up the vibe that their principle    interest is in franchising the equipment.    Colin         To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com   To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com       SPONSORED LINKS British columbia canada  Vancouver island  Yacht           Victoria bc     ------------------------------------------------------------------------------   YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS       a..  Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web.            b..  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:      origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com            c..  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
9706|9651|2005-11-29 10:10:01|sae140|Re: The 200 pound millionaire by Weston Farmer  -  1932|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III" <ben_azo@h...> wrote:   > ------------------------------------------------------------- > Colin , I was charged for a mooring on the Beaulieu river , > I was so surprized rivers can be private in the UK :-) > Old Ben > -------------------------------------------------------------   Yup - the UK mooring situation is bad - likewise the cost  of British charts and Tide-tables ! The lion's share of this cost is due to the Crown's Copyright monopoly on the data, but as UKHO research is funded by the  tax-payer (as is the UKHO itself, the Admiralty, and even the  bl##dy Crown !!) - we effectively get to pay for this data twice !  However - some good news to report - although UK harmonic data  was removed from the excellent free global tidal prediction  software "WXTide32" after a complaint of breach of Crown  Copyright, the Proudman Oceanographic Laboratory in Liverpool  have now granted permission to use their constants - so UK  tides are now back on the map, despite the Crown's pettiness.   The latest version of WXtide32 (4.2) is available from several shareware/freeware sources - but not version 2.6, which was the  last available version based on UK Admiralty constants.  This  version can be hard to locate, so I've uploaded a copy to OrigamiBoats2.  Download it while you can !!   More free stuff:  Celestial Navigation tutorials and programs at:  http://www.tecepe.com.br/nav/  There's also info there on how to make your own sextant (if  you really must - the plastic ones are fairly cheap at bring  and buy sales).  Personally I've never managed to get a fix  better than 30 miles from a known position - but they're  useful for measuring distances off .....  Also free - a copy (in .pdf form) of Bowditch's 'The  American Practical Navigator' at: http://www.irbs.com/bowditch/  Also free - a yachtie calender at: http://www.yacht.de/kalender/kalender.html  Colin|
9707|9651|2005-11-29 11:57:07|Puck III|Re: The 200 pound millionaire by Weston Farmer  -  1932|Colin , thanks you so much for that File , I just  downloaded it succesfully , what a great Link for all sailing the Crown's waters :-) I'l spread the news . Free from the UK , I owe you one ! Feel free to give us more of that interesting stuff.  Old Ben  --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "sae140" <colinpowell@f...>  wrote:  > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III" <ben_azo@h...>   wrote:  >  > > ------------------------------------------------------------- > > Colin , I was charged for a mooring on the Beaulieu river , > > I was so surprized rivers can be private in the UK :-) > > Old Ben > > ------------------------------------------------------------- >  > Yup - the UK mooring situation is bad - likewise the cost  > of British charts and Tide-tables ! > The lion's share of this cost is due to the Crown's Copyright > monopoly on the data, but as UKHO research is funded by the  > tax-payer (as is the UKHO itself, the Admiralty, and even the  > bl##dy Crown !!) - we effectively get to pay for this data twice ! >  > However - some good news to report - although UK harmonic data  > was removed from the excellent free global tidal prediction  > software "WXTide32" after a complaint of breach of Crown  > Copyright, the Proudman Oceanographic Laboratory in Liverpool  > have now granted permission to use their constants - so UK  > tides are now back on the map, despite the Crown's pettiness.   > The latest version of WXtide32 (4.2) is available from several > shareware/freeware sources - but not version 2.6, which was the  > last available version based on UK Admiralty constants.  This  > version can be hard to locate, so I've uploaded a copy to > OrigamiBoats2.  Download it while you can !! >  >  > More free stuff: >  > Celestial Navigation tutorials and programs at:  > http://www.tecepe.com.br/nav/ >  > There's also info there on how to make your own sextant (if  > you really must - the plastic ones are fairly cheap at bring  > and buy sales).  Personally I've never managed to get a fix  > better than 30 miles from a known position - but they're  > useful for measuring distances off ..... >  > Also free - a copy (in .pdf form) of Bowditch's 'The  > American Practical Navigator' at: > http://www.irbs.com/bowditch/ >  > Also free - a yachtie calender at: > http://www.yacht.de/kalender/kalender.html >  > Colin > |
9708|9708|2005-11-29 12:32:57|Jason Stancil|BS 26 footer|Like alot of other folks i've been enjoing the buzz about the 26  lately. I need to motivate and order some plans. Any idea what dry  weight of the boat is....displacement is close to 6,800 lbs i think. Trying to figure if it could handle all the crap i tend to accumilate.  Has anyone tried wooden decks/superstructure to save weight on any of  Brent's boats or does the construction technique rely on the deck for  structural integrity.  Thanks Jason|
9709|9709|2005-11-29 12:37:02|Puck III|---  River Cruising   ---   Beograd Origami Steel River Boat   --|I'd like to follow the building of the boat in the PhotoAlbum " Beograd " , a 6,5m X 2,3m riverboat , that looks interesting . A search for Beograd or Dunavski returned 0 results.  Any Links or directions ? Any Link to another Origami riverboat ?  Cruising the inland waters and estuaries  has a lot of charm and can be a more easy to embark on adventure for some , just think about all those lakes and the Innerwaterway. Some people do not want to venture to sea. The rivers have so much to offer.  An interesting Topic ??? I hope I am not the sole riverlover in here , tell me what you all think.  Old Ben|
9710|9708|2005-11-29 13:39:51|a_admi|Re: BS 26 footer|You are not alone having a revived interest . I borrowed the Video and Tom's pretty pics convinced me the BS 26 is the boat I want. I have send a mail to order the plans yesterday , I just checked my mailbox awaiting Brent Swain's confirmation mail. I am from Indian origin but my parents live and run a business in Africa , where import taxes on private boats are 100% , so building the BS 26 will be the best saving , no import tax . I think the BS 26 will be my lucky project boat . I hope to be able to post pics soon to , because I would love to be on the water next summer holiday. I will have to convert every measurement to metric , and hope to find the same plate measurements . I certainly have a wooden mast in a tabernacle . I hesitated a lot , now I would love to have the plans yesterday. Is there a French speaking Canadian that is familiar with both the english and french technical terms in this Group ? Thanks in advance for any help regarding that translation difficulty .  Good luck to you Tom and thanks again for your photos.   --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Jason Stancil"  <jasonstancil@h...> wrote:  > > Like alot of other folks i've been enjoing the buzz about the 26  > lately. I need to motivate and order some plans. Any idea what dry  > weight of the boat is....displacement is close to 6,800 lbs i think. > Trying to figure if it could handle all the crap i tend to   accumilate.   > Has anyone tried wooden decks/superstructure to save weight on any of  > Brent's boats or does the construction technique rely on the deck for  > structural integrity. >  > Thanks > Jason > |
9711|9343|2005-11-29 20:29:12|tom|Re: Hillrange Alcohol Stove|Hello mickey  I recieved your voice mail and Ill buy it . I will try to call you again or  if you get a chance call me in the evening Thanks Tom  ----- Original Message -----  From: "mickeyolaf" <mickeyolaf@...> To: <origamiboats@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2005 5:55 PM Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Hillrange Alcohol Stove   >I still have the stove but a builder in CA is interested in it.  >Unfortunately it is $100 to ship > it to him. I just left him a voicemail so we'll see if he wants it when he  > calls back. > It is 20 1/2" wide by 17 1/2" deep by 22" high. The cutout framing would  > be larger to > allow it to swing as it is gimbled. It is all stainless and has never been  > installed. The tank > has a bracket to bulkhead mount it and a gauge on it re the pressure. You  > use a bicycle > pump to pump up the tank. > > > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Michael Casling <casling@s...> wrote: >> >> I am interested. I have a Richmond Ring stove that uses pressurized  >> alcohol and I want > to change to kerosene. >> If it is easier to change the Hillrange then I would be interested. I  >> will need dimensions. >> I will be in Vancouver for the boat show in February. Might be down  >> sooner but not > positive. >> Michael in Kelowna >>   ----- Original Message -----  >>   From: mickeyolaf >>   To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com >>   Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2005 10:59 AM >>   Subject: [origamiboats] Hillrange Alcohol Stove >> >> >>   If anyone is interested in a gimbled new all stainless steel 2 burner >>   with oven marine alcohol stove let me know. It has the pressure tank >>   and mounts with it, has never been used. Hillranges are convertable to >>   kersosene or diesel or overproof rum by changing out the burners or >>   keep it on alcohol. It's available for $100.00 including the tank. I'm >>   in Burnaby at 778-837-5725. >> >> >> >> >> >>   To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com >>   To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats- > unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com >> >> >> >>   SPONSORED LINKS British columbia canada  Vancouver island  Yacht >>         Victoria bc >> >> >> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > -- >>   YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS >> >>     a..  Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web. >> >>     b..  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >>      origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com >> >>     c..  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of  >> Service. >> >> >> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > -- >> >> >> >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >> > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:  > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > |
9712|9708|2005-11-29 21:20:39|tom|Re: BS 26 footer|Hello Jason  I wish I could tell you what the dry weight is, its to early in the progect  to tell . thats one of the things Im planing on doing when all the steel  work is finished and balast in place taking it to a scale and find out.  Brent could tell you more about wood decking, Ive read some stories in the  past about wood decking coming loose and leaking and the nightmers involved  so they wouldnt be on my boat.  If you have the means you could build the boat out of aluminum and that  would give you a lot more weight capacity. Lot of pros and cons on that one  though  Tom  ----- Original Message -----  From: "Jason Stancil" <jasonstancil@...> To: <origamiboats@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2005 9:32 AM Subject: [origamiboats] BS 26 footer   > Like alot of other folks i've been enjoing the buzz about the 26 > lately. I need to motivate and order some plans. Any idea what dry > weight of the boat is....displacement is close to 6,800 lbs i think. > Trying to figure if it could handle all the crap i tend to accumilate. > Has anyone tried wooden decks/superstructure to save weight on any of > Brent's boats or does the construction technique rely on the deck for > structural integrity. > > Thanks > Jason > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:  > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > |
9713|9713|2005-11-29 22:14:13|SHANE ROTHWELL|Spars|Didn't Brent mention in his book the posative righting motion with a sealed mast & flowtation (sp) it provided.  The way it lookz? beauty, to me anyway, is a property of function. At the same time the aerodynamics may be all messed up with 2 lumps of abs just fwd of the sail..... don't know.  A steel spar is going to be WAY stronger than anything else & is probably going to be a lot cheaper as well. It's just shutting up the halyards in a breeze to avoid that infernal tapping on the spar/rig etc.  Thanks, Shane   	  	 		 __________________________________________________________  Find your next car at http://autos.yahoo.ca|
9714|9668|2005-11-30 02:57:38|ed_lithgow|Re: Easyrig Unstayed Mast|Hi all  Well if Rob Denney is "unarguably the world's leading exponent ofthe proa craft", I'd better not argue, but Russell Brown   has been at it for a long time, (though not as long as the Marshall  Islanders), his boats look both lovely and relatively low tech, and  the original Jzero, at least, was built very cheaply. None of these  qualities spring to mind when looking at the Harryproa's, however  fantastic they may be.   I'd agree with the "exponent" bit though. Russell Brown doesn't seem  to be selling anything, I dont think you can even buy plans, which  is a pity.(www.PacificProa.net)  Apologies if this strays too far off topic; Maybe someone'll be  inspired to design an origami proa. Unlikely to be in steel though.  Regds, Ed Lithgow    In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "khooper_fboats" <bighouse@t...>  wrote:  > >  > I don't know how many of you are interested in an unstayed rig, it   has  > always been a fascination of mine. >  > Rob Denney has had in development a mast he calls "Easyrig", it is   an  > unstayed carbon/epoxy mast intended for amateur construction. He   uses  > carbon tow, conventional epoxy and vacuum bagging in a form. Very   long  > thin form. =^) >  > Rob is an Australian, he is unarguably the world's leading   exponent of  > the proa craft, he is building some fantastic boats you can see at > http://www.harryproa.com . >  > He says in a message posted to Sailing Anarchy: >  > ----------------------------------- >  > We have just completed an 18m/60' unstayed mast for a 15m/50'   harryproa.  >  > Some details: >  > Righting moment: 17,820 tonne metres/58,800 ton feet > Mast length: 18m/60', > Above deck: 16m/53' > Diameter at base: 300mm/12" > Diameter at tip: 100mm/4" > Safety factor: 2.5 > Designed weight of bare tube: 119 kgs/262 lbs > Actual weight of bare tube: 117 kgs/257 lbs > Designed deflection with 153 kgs/337 lbs midway along mast:   178mm/7"  > Actual deflection with 153 kgs midway along the mast: 175mm/6.9" > Designed tip deflection at capsize: 2.9m/9'8" > Actual deflection at capsize: yet to be established! > Cost of mast painted with top and bottom fittings: > $AUS15,000/$US10,800/9,000 Euros > Additional cost for lightweight carbon rcb track bonded on: > $2,800/$US2,000/1,680 Euros >  > ------------------------------------- >  > Not sure what he is using for bearings, it is a rotating rig. >  > He doesn't appear to have plans available separately for the rig, > maybe that is coming, right now they are included in the plans for   the  > proa. >  > --Ken > |
9715|9713|2005-11-30 07:23:13|cirejay|Re: Spars|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, SHANE ROTHWELL <rockrothwell@y...>  wrote:  > It's just shutting up the halyards in a breeze to > avoid that infernal tapping on the spar/rig etc.   Shane, about this infernal tapping, are you talking about while at  anchor or in the the dock?  I've never been aware of any noise while  underway.  Simply tying the halyards off, away from the mast, pretty much solves  the problem when not underway.  I lived aboard for 3 years and the only  problem with halyard noise was from the non-liveaboard boats that  didn't bother to tie their halyards off so as to quiet them.  eric S/V Nebaras|
9716|9708|2005-11-30 08:54:21|Carl Volkwein|Re: BS 26 footer|Potential weight loss formula, when you get something new, put it in a dedicated cocpit locker, for a specified time(one month, two months?) if you haven't used it yet, get rid of it. Or when the locker fills up, thin the contents out, you can keep what you know you'll "need" some day. What does everyone else think?   Carl from Wv.  Jason Stancil <jasonstancil@...> wrote:   Like alot of other folks i've been enjoing the buzz about the 26  lately. I need to motivate and order some plans. Any idea what dry  weight of the boat is....displacement is close to 6,800 lbs i think. Trying to figure if it could handle all the crap i tend to accumilate.  Has anyone tried wooden decks/superstructure to save weight on any of  Brent's boats or does the construction technique rely on the deck for  structural integrity.  Thanks Jason        To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com       SPONSORED LINKS          British columbia canada   Vancouver island   Yacht     Victoria bc       ---------------------------------   YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS            Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web.          To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:  origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com          Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.        ---------------------------------          		 ---------------------------------  Yahoo! Music Unlimited - Access over 1 million songs. Try it free.  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]|
9717|9713|2005-11-30 09:00:34|sae140|Re: Spars|I'm pretty sure there was a relevant thread on this not too  long ago.  I seem to remember Brent posting about holding  the steel mast upright and dropping plastic cups containing expandable foam down inside the mast - one after another -  until the mast was completely filled with foam.   This description left an unforgettable mental image with me,  although the other details I've forgotten.  There must have  been some kind of halyard 'tube' installed, prior to dosing  with the 2-part foam ?  Colin|
9718|9713|2005-11-30 09:01:05|sae140|Re: Spars|I'm pretty sure there was a relevant thread on this not too  long ago.  I seem to remember Brent posting about holding  the steel mast upright and dropping plastic cups containing expandable foam down inside the mast - one after another -  until the mast was completely filled with foam.   This description left an unforgettable mental image with me,  although the other details I've forgotten.  There must have  been some kind of halyard 'tube' installed, prior to dosing  with the 2-part foam ?  Colin|
9719|9713|2005-11-30 13:44:23|SHANE ROTHWELL|Spars|Hi Eric,  Your right, its halyards tapping spar & rig whilst not underway that makes all the noise. Internal halyards seem to have shut em up (for me anyway) pretty effectively. also, to keep halyards out of the UV will prolong their life.  Then again, if you can put together a rig fast & cheap enuf, a coupla halyards every few years is just part of the cost of maintainance & you save heaps in the long run anyway.  The idea of dropping foam cups down the spar sounds good, but the 2 part polyeurathane expands really quickly & unless you are very lucky you may end up with big voids in the coverage of foam.  Thanks for the input gentlemen!  Shane   	  	 		 __________________________________________________________  Find your next car at http://autos.yahoo.ca|
9720|9720|2005-11-30 13:56:09|SHANE ROTHWELL|Foaming|Just bought 2 x 20' shipping containers this moring for moving/storage & have to insulate the celings to protect contents from condensation.   A wile back there was mention of 2 part polyeurathane foam that could be bought in packs to be self applied.  Anyone try this stuff? Any good? Decent pricing?   In 1" thickness  will need about 320 board feet = 27 cubic feet = 1 cubic yard = 835 litres of this stuff. Commercial outfits want $250 - $350 per container which is way over the top.  Sorry that this is off topic but you guys are my best potential source of info on this.  Many Thanks,  Shane   	  	 		 __________________________________________________________  Find your next car at http://autos.yahoo.ca|
9721|9721|2005-11-30 14:08:01|joeearsley|Halyard Noise|I too dislike the noise of halyard tap.  When anchored, I plan to lead  the tails aft for the head sail and for'd for the main.   That's what  I do with my current plastic boat when the nighttime glacier winds  come screaming down the mountain here in Whittier.|
9722|9708|2005-11-30 17:17:17|kingsknight4life|Re: BS 26 footer|Carl I use that formula a lot although my time frame is about 6 months.  works for clothes, knick knacks and what ever. If I haven't used it  recently I probably don't "need" it. Unles it's boat parts and  materials that i'm hoarding Rowland --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Carl Volkwein  <carlvolkwein@y...> wrote:  > > Potential weight loss formula, when you get something new, put it   in a dedicated cocpit locker, for a specified time(one month, two  months?) if you haven't used it yet, get rid of it. Or when the  locker fills up, thin the contents out, you can keep what you know  you'll "need" some day. What does everyone else think?  >   Carl from Wv. >  > Jason Stancil <jasonstancil@h...> wrote: >   ... > Trying to figure if it could handle all the crap i tend to   accumilate....  > > Thanks > Jason  >  >  >  >  >  >  > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-  unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com   >  >  >  >   SPONSORED LINKS  >         British columbia canada   Vancouver island   Yacht       Victoria bc   >      > --------------------------------- >   YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS  >  >      >     Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web. >      >     To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >  origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com >      >     Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of   Service.   >  >      > --------------------------------- >    >  >    >  >  > 		 > --------------------------------- >  Yahoo! Music Unlimited - Access over 1 million songs. Try it free. >  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > |
9723|9720|2005-12-01 10:10:33|sae140|Re: Foaming|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, SHANE ROTHWELL  <rockrothwell@y...> wrote:  > > Just bought 2 x 20' shipping containers this moring > for moving/storage & have to insulate the celings to > protect contents from condensation. >    For this application I would have thought that rigid expanded polystyrene sheets, or even ordinary household loft insulation (Rockwool) above a false hardboard  (fibreboard) ceiling would be the cheapest solution.  If you're anywhere near farming country, big sheets of  4" polystyrene are often used for insulating steel  storage barns.  Colin|
9724|9668|2005-12-01 10:23:15|sae140|Re: Easyrig Unstayed Mast|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Denis Buggy" <buggy@i...> wrote:  > > thanks colin . denis  >  >   > also on a related topic does anybody know anything about this  >   sandblasting process which they claim to sandblast a 30ft boat in  >   three hours  with  a small amount of  warm water and air and grit  >   > " farrowsystem.com "      More on the Farrow System:  Farrow haven't responded to my mail, nor telephoned.  Can't  say I'm too bothered, 'cause I've done a little research on  this outfit ...  If you check out http://farrowsystem.com/intro.html there's  a lot of 'impressive' sales chat, and you'll be forgiven for  thinking that something outstanding had been discovered or  invented.  Farrow have a couple of UK Patents, but the UK Patent Office  has a really crap public access system, and I was only able  view enough info to x-reference to a US Patent for the same  process.  So - to see what this outfit is really all about - see US  Patent 6609955.  Easiest method is to got to  http://patft.uspto.gov/netahtml/srchnum.htm  and insert  6609955 into the right box.    Reading this patent is like reading "Abrasive Blasting for  Beginners - an Intro". How they got a patent based on their  claims is puzzling.  The Ministry of Defence is also not  very impressed and is trying to get Farrow's patents revoked  on the grounds that a) they - and the rest of the world -  have been blasting using Olivine using a similar low-pressure  method for years, and b) raising the temperature of the  medium has no significant effect. Indeed - Farrow themselves say "Whilst the water supply is  heated as part of the process, the water is emitted from  the cleaning nozzle as a cooled vapour." Mmmm - so if it meets the surfaces to be cleaned as a  "cooled vapour" - what's the point of heating it in the  first place ??  If you're short of bed-time reading, then: http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200304/cmhansrd/ vo040121/halltext/40121h05.htm (which outlines the dispute between Farrow and the MoD) makes  for an exceedingly dull read.  It seems that the bottom line is that the Farrow System  itself is a pretty dubious improvement over existing methods.   What it has shown up in the Dockyards however, is that the  Admiralty have been employing ham-fisted gorillas to service  their plastic boats, and that low pressure abrasive blasting equipment in the hands of a skilled operator can indeed  remove paint, varnish, anti-foul etc., without causing damage  to the underlying surface.  In short - it offers nothing new  to the abrasive blasting debate.  Sorry.  In the process of researching this, I've got some leads on  the use of ice crystals (remember the Titanic ?) and solid  CO2 crystals for blasting steel - sounds a lot less messy -  I'll keep the group posted ...  Colin|
9725|9641|2005-12-01 12:35:41|seeratlas|Re: Mold question (Webbing)|First sorry bout the delay, been busy as heck and unable to get to the group. :(  Ok, in general I don't recommend webbing without slats. you will do some serious aching in the back dept. sooner or later. A hammock can be made bearable but generally by putting lots of bedding in it to smooth it out.  I'm talking about transverse wooden or other material slats with the mattress on top. :)  seer  --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "edward_stoneuk" <tedstone@g...> wrote:  > > Seer, > I thought about using woven webbing as a base for bunks as I have some  > that came from the rigging of a hot air balloon.  The problem that I  > foresee is tensioning it so that it doesn't sag like a hammock.  That  > can give one a bad back.  To keep tension one would need a strong  > frame and probably a means of adjusting individual webbing straps.  Do  > you have any good ideas on that? > Regards, > Ted > |
9726|9641|2005-12-01 12:35:44|seeratlas|Re: Mold question (Webbing & Slats)|heheh, i should have read farther before answering the previous one. :0 seer  -- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "edward_stoneuk" <tedstone@g...> wrote:  > > Seer, > I have just reread your post.  I see that you were talking about  > wooden slats with the webbing keeping them in position and I guess  > taking some of the bending moment.  I have seen similar set ups with,  > I think, rubber spacers. The wooden slats seemed to be curved so they  > didn't sag so much when a body lay on them. > Regards, > Ted > |
9727|9668|2005-12-01 12:41:57|seeratlas|Re: Easyrig Unstayed Mast|I would think you might be able to reduce some wall thickness if the mast is to be totally foamed inside. Should make for a stout stick but I'd sure talk to as many guys as you can that have actually built or sailed such a rig. No disrespect, but you can do a ton of engineering, and still not know what you have till you've tested one and rather than do that yourself, best to talk to as many as possible who have. Sounds like a good idea to me. I'll be interested in hearing what Brent and any other designer guys or those with experience with such a mast have to say.   As for banging external halyards, best solution for me has always been some stout rubber or bungee cords to tie them off to the rail or spreaders to quite em down.  The main problems with internal halyards over time, is firstmaking sure the sheeve is big enough in diameter so that the halyards don't jump and jam, and second is that if you screw up and run one down the mast, its a sucker to re rig one, especially at sea.  seer seer  --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, SHANE ROTHWELL <rockrothwell@y...> wrote:  > > Hi Guys, >  > For me it's going to be Stayed Steel as well (on a > tabernacle) if it's possible to have internal > halyards, otherwise I suppose it will have to be an > alloy spar which I'm not fond of having seen the > results of them going overside. Not pretty! >  > However, to have posative righting ability it has to > be sealed doesn't it? But how to set it up with > internal halyards if the mast is sealed? External > halyards are noisy as hell & want to avoid perpetual > slatting of halyards against the rig if I can. Is this > possible?  >  > Have been thinking of mounting 2" ABS tubes (painted > for UV protection) either side of the mainsail trac > for the falls of the halyards to run down (either way > you are going to have the leads of the halyards > exposed to wind & wether, but they can be lead away > from rigging to avoid slatting as with the "usual" > alloy spar).  >  > This way you get the best of both worlds, the falls of > the halyards are encompassed to shut em up, the spar > can then be sealed for posative righting motion in a > rollover, you have a steel spar which is stronger than > anything else - isn't it, and the additional weight of > the ABS tubes would be nominal. >  > The profile of the spar with ABS tubes would be sort > of triangular with rounded corners with the spar out > forward and the ABS tubes either side of the mainsail > track, so positioned on each of the aft quarters of > the spar itself.  >  > Yes, some modification of the mast truck would be > needed so that the falls of the halyards line up with > the top of the ABS tubes for a nice clean run of the > halyard through the ABS tube & at the bottom end you > just mount your halyard winches so they line up > cleanly with the botm of the ABS tubes. >  > Any thoughts/comments on this lads? Or do I have my > head on backwards? >  > Cheers, > Shane >  >  > 	 >  > 	 > 		 > __________________________________________________________  > Find your next car at http://autos.yahoo.ca > |
9728|9713|2005-12-01 12:46:25|seeratlas|Re: Spars|I must have missed something, i thought you were going to run the abs up INSIDE the mast and foamed in place?  seer --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, SHANE ROTHWELL <rockrothwell@y...> wrote:  > > Didn't Brent mention in his book the posative righting > motion with a sealed mast & flowtation (sp) it > provided. >  > The way it lookz? beauty, to me anyway, is a property > of function. At the same time the aerodynamics may be > all messed up with 2 lumps of abs just fwd of the > sail..... don't know. >  > A steel spar is going to be WAY stronger than anything > else & is probably going to be a lot cheaper as well. > It's just shutting up the halyards in a breeze to > avoid that infernal tapping on the spar/rig etc. >  > Thanks, > Shane >  >  > 	 >  > 	 > 		 > __________________________________________________________  > Find your next car at http://autos.yahoo.ca > |
9729|9641|2005-12-01 12:55:48|Michael Casling|Re: Mold question (Webbing)|The older chesterfields have webbing to support the part that is sat on. The webbing is spaced very close and the frame needs to be very strong to support the tension of the webbing. Upholsterers use a webbing puller. The webbing is pulled very tight. This is not something that could be easily done on a boat.  Michael    ----- Original Message -----    From: seeratlas    To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com    Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2005 9:34 AM   Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Mold question (Webbing)     First sorry bout the delay, been busy as heck and unable to get to the   group. :(    Ok, in general I don't recommend webbing without slats. you will do   some serious aching in the back dept. sooner or later. A hammock can   be made bearable but generally by putting lots of bedding in it to   smooth it out.    I'm talking about transverse wooden or other material slats with the   mattress on top. :)    seer    --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "edward_stoneuk" <tedstone@g...>   wrote:   >   > Seer,   > I thought about using woven webbing as a base for bunks as I have some    > that came from the rigging of a hot air balloon.  The problem that I    > foresee is tensioning it so that it doesn't sag like a hammock.  That    > can give one a bad back.  To keep tension one would need a strong    > frame and probably a means of adjusting individual webbing straps.  Do    > you have any good ideas on that?   > Regards,   > Ted   >          To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com   To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com     ------------------------------------------------------------------------------   YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS       a..  Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web.            b..  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:      origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com            c..  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
9730|9720|2005-12-01 13:26:24|mickeyolaf|Re: Foaming|Professional spray foaming of a aluminum Swain 36 on  Vancouver Island carved, sanded and ready for covering is $2500.00  Cdn. That is the complete interior, ceilings etc one inch to inch  and half thick foam. Two guys, two days work to finished job. Very  dusty job sanding smooth. Major respirator required. Mine is done now but what would be wrong with painting the inside  then gluing in closed cell foam tightly fitting to beams, frames,  overhead etc? No carving and sanding. No dust. Is it because sheet  foam is more expensive? You can't fit it tight enough? Glue wouldn't  work? I've never priced closed cell sheet foam.        -- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "sae140" <colinpowell@f...>  wrote:  > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, SHANE ROTHWELL  > <rockrothwell@y...> wrote: > > > > Just bought 2 x 20' shipping containers this moring > > for moving/storage & have to insulate the celings to > > protect contents from condensation. > >  >  > For this application I would have thought that rigid > expanded polystyrene sheets, or even ordinary household > loft insulation (Rockwool) above a false hardboard  > (fibreboard) ceiling would be the cheapest solution. >  > If you're anywhere near farming country, big sheets of  > 4" polystyrene are often used for insulating steel  > storage barns. >  > Colin > |
9731|9713|2005-12-01 14:34:30|NORMAN MOORE|Re: Spars|Two lumps (halyards) forward of the mast can actually improve mast aerodynamics (see enclosed paper).  --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, SHANE ROTHWELL <rockrothwell@y...> wrote:  > > Didn't Brent mention in his book the posative  righting  > motion with a sealed mast & flowtation (sp) it > provided. >  > The way it lookz? beauty, to me anyway, is a  property  > of function. At the same time the aerodynamics may  be  > all messed up with 2 lumps of abs just fwd of the > sail..... don't know. >  > A steel spar is going to be WAY stronger than  anything  > else & is probably going to be a lot cheaper as  well.  > It's just shutting up the halyards in a breeze to > avoid that infernal tapping on the spar/rig etc. >  > Thanks, > Shane >  >  >        >  >        >              >  __________________________________________________________   > Find your next car at http://autos.yahoo.ca >        To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com                SPONSORED LINKS                                                   British columbia canada                                    Vancouver island                                    Yacht                                                                Victoria bc                                             ---------------------------------   YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS         Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web.         To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:  origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com         Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.     ---------------------------------  Norm Moore 559-645-5314  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]|
9732|9720|2005-12-01 15:20:35|jericoera|Re: Foaming|Thanks, I was wondering what the cost was for foaming. If you have contact info for them, maybe you coould post it. I am in  powlel River and will eventually need a foam job over here on my boat  Carl M.  --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "mickeyolaf" <mickeyolaf@y...>  wrote:  > > Professional spray foaming of a aluminum Swain 36 on  > Vancouver Island carved, sanded and ready for covering is $2500.00  > Cdn. That is the complete interior, ceilings etc one inch to inch  > and half thick foam. Two guys, two days work to finished job. Very  > dusty job sanding smooth. Major respirator required. > Mine is done now but what would be wrong with painting the inside  > then gluing in closed cell foam tightly fitting to beams, frames,  > overhead etc? No carving and sanding. No dust. Is it because sheet  > foam is more expensive? You can't fit it tight enough? Glue   wouldn't   > work? I've never priced closed cell sheet foam. >  >  >  >  >  >  >  > -- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "sae140" <colinpowell@f...>  > wrote: > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, SHANE ROTHWELL  > > <rockrothwell@y...> wrote: > > > > > > Just bought 2 x 20' shipping containers this moring > > > for moving/storage & have to insulate the celings to > > > protect contents from condensation. > > >  > >  > > For this application I would have thought that rigid > > expanded polystyrene sheets, or even ordinary household > > loft insulation (Rockwool) above a false hardboard  > > (fibreboard) ceiling would be the cheapest solution. > >  > > If you're anywhere near farming country, big sheets of  > > 4" polystyrene are often used for insulating steel  > > storage barns. > >  > > Colin > > > |
9733|9720|2005-12-01 17:11:34|mickeyolaf|Re: Foaming|I will call the builder tonight who is finishing my boat and get  their names and will post it for you. The builder I am using always  has these contractors foam his boats. He has built 90 plus boats so  the foamers are pretty experienced just with his work alone. The $2500 was my price thru my builder. You may be able to do better  calling them directly. That is sure messy stuff to smooth and clean.  Wouldn't foam glued on in panels be easier and cleaner?         -- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "jericoera" <jericoera@y...>  wrote:  > > Thanks, I was wondering what the cost was for foaming. > If you have contact info for them, maybe you coould post it. I am   in   > powlel River and will eventually need a foam job over here on my   boat  >  > Carl M. >  > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "mickeyolaf"   <mickeyolaf@y...>   > wrote: > > > > Professional spray foaming of a aluminum Swain 36 on  > > Vancouver Island carved, sanded and ready for covering is   $2500.00   > > Cdn. That is the complete interior, ceilings etc one inch to   inch   > > and half thick foam. Two guys, two days work to finished job.   Very   > > dusty job sanding smooth. Major respirator required. > > Mine is done now but what would be wrong with painting the   inside   > > then gluing in closed cell foam tightly fitting to beams,   frames,   > > overhead etc? No carving and sanding. No dust. Is it because   sheet   > > foam is more expensive? You can't fit it tight enough? Glue  > wouldn't  > > work? I've never priced closed cell sheet foam. > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > > -- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "sae140" <colinpowell@f...>  > > wrote: > > > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, SHANE ROTHWELL  > > > <rockrothwell@y...> wrote: > > > > > > > > Just bought 2 x 20' shipping containers this moring > > > > for moving/storage & have to insulate the celings to > > > > protect contents from condensation. > > > >  > > >  > > > For this application I would have thought that rigid > > > expanded polystyrene sheets, or even ordinary household > > > loft insulation (Rockwool) above a false hardboard  > > > (fibreboard) ceiling would be the cheapest solution. > > >  > > > If you're anywhere near farming country, big sheets of  > > > 4" polystyrene are often used for insulating steel  > > > storage barns. > > >  > > > Colin > > > > > > |
9734|9734|2005-12-01 17:40:05|mickeyolaf|Steele Coat Paint|At last years Vancouver Boat Show there was a booth from Progressive  Services which sold Steele Coat 2 part epoxy paint. I painted part of  my aluminum boat last weekend with it.  You clean the aluminum with a 3m scouring pad. I put the 5" round pad  on my feather edger at 1600 rpm and the aluminum was bright in  minutes. Pads are $4 amd last about 30 minutes. Then wipe the metal  with a special solvent. Mix A and B together. Wait 1 hour for  induction. You then have hours to paint. The temperature was 48-55(F)  when I was painting. I put two coats of high build primer on with a  throwaway roller. It cured overnight. Then two coats of white.  This paint goes on easy, looks good and really sticks but is pretty  stong fume wise. Lots of ventilation needed.  The 4 coats of epoxy will be the base coats under eventual 2 part  polyurethane. Steele Coat has a an additive called "Adalume" to make  it really bond to aluminum. No additive needed for steel.  I plan to next sand lightly the steelecoat, fair with epoxy filler,  prime the filled areas and spray polyurethane. Hopefully she'll look  like glass when I'm done. Progressive Services are at 604-525-1685.|
9735|9735|2005-12-01 19:35:39|tazmannusa|insulation|Hello All   I have ben reading up on a product called Nansulate,its a transluent  insulation paint and its desighned for industrial applications up to  400 degrees. What I have ben considering is going the Zinga cold  galvanizing on the whole boat inside and out and coating the inside  with Nansulate seems like it would be a lot easyer to maintain, you  could see through it and do any repairs without a problem VS foam  where you wouldnt know you have a problem. Has anyone ever tryed somthing like this or any thoughts on the idea?  Ohh ya its going on a BS26 mainly sailed on California coast not  Alaska "too cold for me up there" Tom|
9736|9720|2005-12-01 21:11:20|Jon & Wanda(Tink)|Re: Foaming|By painting then sprayfoaming there are no voids for condensation and  moisture. With riged there are voids with some moisture content and  then condesation as well as some air flow for more condensation where  you don't want it. The foam used in homes for spraying walls and  cealings is about 1/2# a Cu/ft. lighter then most foams so it even  gives more flotation per Cu/ft..  Jon   --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "mickeyolaf" <mickeyolaf@y...>  wrote:  > > Professional spray foaming of a aluminum Swain 36 on  > Vancouver Island carved, sanded and ready for covering is $2500.00  > Cdn. That is the complete interior, ceilings etc one inch to inch  > and half thick foam. Two guys, two days work to finished job. Very  > dusty job sanding smooth. Major respirator required. > Mine is done now but what would be wrong with painting the inside  > then gluing in closed cell foam tightly fitting to beams, frames,  > overhead etc? No carving and sanding. No dust. Is it because sheet  > foam is more expensive? You can't fit it tight enough? Glue   wouldn't   > work? I've never priced closed cell sheet foam. >  >  >  >  >  >  >  > -- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "sae140" <colinpowell@f...>  > wrote: > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, SHANE ROTHWELL  > > <rockrothwell@y...> wrote: > > > > > > Just bought 2 x 20' shipping containers this moring > > > for moving/storage & have to insulate the celings to > > > protect contents from condensation. > > >  > >  > > For this application I would have thought that rigid > > expanded polystyrene sheets, or even ordinary household > > loft insulation (Rockwool) above a false hardboard  > > (fibreboard) ceiling would be the cheapest solution. > >  > > If you're anywhere near farming country, big sheets of  > > 4" polystyrene are often used for insulating steel  > > storage barns. > >  > > Colin > > > |
9737|9735|2005-12-01 21:34:31|Puck III|Re: insulation|Hi Tom , your idea is excellent ! Zinga is a first class proven product .  You can spray it thin , exces product will not give more protection , as long as you apply the Zinga immediatly afther sanding , on a well cleaned dry surface . The protection start as soon as contact with air is finished .  Before paint is applied on the in or outside , the only precaution to be taken is to protect the surface from all flying little metal parts , so do all metal grinding at a good distance from the hull and deck , or protect the surface against any tiny projections that would start rusting later from under the paint .  The Nansulate can be sprayed to and again it is useless to apply to much . Again it is a proven product .  BUT  The Nansulate is no sound insulator , soo you will have to count only on the sound insulation value of the wooden or other liner you think attaching over that.  Making that easely detachable , as you say , is the best solution in case you need repairing , install conducts for  wiring or anything behind that surface.  Plywood with or without a formica finish , or any other  water resistant paneling material seems the easyest solution , as long as it is thin enough to bend easely , cause your hull and deck was build up from a developable surface [ a major Origami advantage ] so you will be able to do a fast job , you sure still have the patterns that stay the same as for the hull minus a bit :-)  How will you attach those panels ? Thats another Topic for later but you can think about it , cause it could be usefull to leave airspace between those panels and the hull and deck surface , the way the Dutch do .  In case you decide to sail to Alaska or sell your boat to a guy that want to sail to Alaska , you can always apply a heatbarier later on , symply by attaching it to the backside of the panels , so your hull can  allways be made free without any hasle .  This is what I think , sure there are much different options worth considering to  Old Ben   --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "tazmannusa" <tazmann@i...>  wrote:  > > Hello All >   I have ben reading up on a product called Nansulate,its a   transluent   > insulation paint and its desighned for industrial applications up   to   > 400 degrees. What I have ben considering is going the Zinga cold  > galvanizing on the whole boat inside and out and coating the inside  > with Nansulate seems like it would be a lot easyer to maintain, you  > could see through it and do any repairs without a problem VS foam  > where you wouldnt know you have a problem. > Has anyone ever tryed somthing like this or any thoughts on the   idea?  >  Ohh ya its going on a BS26 mainly sailed on California coast not  > Alaska "too cold for me up there" > Tom > |
9738|9668|2005-12-01 21:35:19|Michael|CO2 blasting Re: Easyrig Unstayed Mast|My experience of 30 years or is that nothing compares to sand for  blasting steel vessels.  That said... it is equally important for  the  dust and residue from the blasting operation to be *completely*  removed prior to epoxy sealing of the interior and subsequent  foaming.  On the subject of CO2 blasting... the companies that offer this are  quite clear in their information brochures that this is not suitable  for preparing steel for priming / painting / coating, etc.  It is  intended as a coating removal technique.  Will not remove millscale.  But... as an interesting method for removing applied coatings from  steel, partly by taking advantage of their different rates of  contraction as those dry ice crystals do their trick... it is kinda  neat physics.  But it is definitely not blasting.  Cheers, Michael   > In the process of researching this, I've got some leads on  > the use of ice crystals (remember the Titanic ?) and solid  > CO2 crystals for blasting steel - sounds a lot less messy -  > I'll keep the group posted ... >  > Colin > |
9739|9720|2005-12-02 06:50:03|cirejay|Re: Foaming|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Jon & Wanda(Tink)"  <windyjon@m...> wrote:  >The foam used in homes for spraying walls and  > cealings is about 1/2# a Cu/ft. lighter then most foams so it even  > gives more flotation per Cu/ft..   Jon, I'm not sure that using .5# vs 1 or 1.5# really means that much  as far a flotation is concerned.  If you are trying to give the  vessel positive flotation, you are going to need a heck of a lot of  flotation.  I would think that how well it stands up in the marine  environment is most important.  As for using house type spray foam, from what I can gather, open  cell is used in homes and I would think that one would want closed  cell in a boat. I'm no expert on this topic but would think this  worth investigating.  I'm sure someone here (Brent?) knows what they  are using to foam steel boats.  Mickey, do you know what they used  on your boat?  eric S/V Nebaras|
9740|9735|2005-12-02 07:07:23|cirejay|Re: insulation|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "tazmannusa" <tazmann@i...>  wrote:  > > Hello All >   I have ben reading up on a product called Nansulate,its a   transluent   > insulation paint and its desighned for industrial applications up   to   > 400 degrees. What I have ben considering is going the Zinga cold  > galvanizing on the whole boat inside and out and coating the   inside   > with Nansulate seems like it would be a lot easyer to maintain,   you   > could see through it and do any repairs without a problem VS foam  > where you wouldnt know you have a problem. > Has anyone ever tryed somthing like this or any thoughts on the   idea?  >  Ohh ya its going on a BS26 mainly sailed on California coast not  > Alaska "too cold for me up there"   Tom, I checked out Nansulate's home page and, far as insulating  ability goes, one only really gets something from nothing and the  more nothing the better.  What one gets with Nansulate is a very  little bit of something.  Even if they managed to create nano  vacuums (nothing), there still would only be a few mils of it.  While it doesn't seem like it would hurt anything, think of what you  would have to do if you changed your mind after the boat was  complete.    eric S/V Nebaras|
9741|9668|2005-12-02 08:53:24|sae140|CO2 blasting Re: Easyrig Unstayed Mast|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Michael" <bornlucky55@y...>  wrote:   >  > On the subject of CO2 blasting... the companies that offer this are  > quite clear in their information brochures that this is not   suitable   > for preparing steel for priming / painting / coating, etc.  It is  > intended as a coating removal technique.  Will not remove millscale. >    Bummer.  The idea of ending-up with just a few shovelfuls of rust to dispose of was so appealing .....  Colin|
9742|9668|2005-12-02 09:08:55|sae140|CO2 blasting Re: Easyrig Unstayed Mast|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "sae140" <colinpowell@f...>  wrote:  > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Michael" <bornlucky55@y...>  > wrote: >  > >  > > On the subject of CO2 blasting... the companies that offer this   are   > > quite clear in their information brochures that this is not  > suitable  > > for preparing steel for priming / painting / coating, etc.  It is  > > intended as a coating removal technique.  Will not remove   millscale.  > >  >  > Bummer.  The idea of ending-up with just a few shovelfuls of rust > to dispose of was so appealing ..... >  > Colin >   Forgot to mention - http://www.shotpeener.com/learning/pat.htm has several dozen links to US patents which are related in some  way to abrasive blasting:  Nozzle design, wheel abrading,  media type and recovery of, etc .... Also links to download the .pdf files directly - but there's  an awful lot of 'em (!).|
9743|9735|2005-12-02 09:48:55|tom|Re: insulation|Hello Eric   Your rite about that it might not be suficient. Old Ben mentioned that it  was a proven product in Holand so thats a +. I am sure spray in closed cell  foam would be a lot better insulation But I am conserned about the tempature  extreams here in the summer it gets as high as 109 degrees and with the boat  sitting on a trailer in the open the top sides are going to get hot enough  to fry eggs on and Im not sure if the foam will stay attached. Steel expands  and contracs a lot with a variance of 80-90 degrees from summer to winter.  putting a tarp over the boat magnifies the problem "Ive learned that one the  hard way" and keeping it in the shade is not allways an option  ----- Original Message -----  From: "cirejay" <cirejay@...> To: <origamiboats@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, December 02, 2005 4:04 AM Subject: [origamiboats] Re: insulation   > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "tazmannusa" <tazmann@i...> > wrote: >> >> Hello All >>   I have ben reading up on a product called Nansulate,its a > transluent >> insulation paint and its desighned for industrial applications up > to >> 400 degrees. What I have ben considering is going the Zinga cold >> galvanizing on the whole boat inside and out and coating the > inside >> with Nansulate seems like it would be a lot easyer to maintain, > you >> could see through it and do any repairs without a problem VS foam >> where you wouldnt know you have a problem. >> Has anyone ever tryed somthing like this or any thoughts on the > idea? >>  Ohh ya its going on a BS26 mainly sailed on California coast not >> Alaska "too cold for me up there" > > Tom, I checked out Nansulate's home page and, far as insulating > ability goes, one only really gets something from nothing and the > more nothing the better.  What one gets with Nansulate is a very > little bit of something.  Even if they managed to create nano > vacuums (nothing), there still would only be a few mils of it. > > While it doesn't seem like it would hurt anything, think of what you > would have to do if you changed your mind after the boat was > complete. > > eric S/V Nebaras > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:  > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > |
9744|9744|2005-12-02 10:21:18|SHANE ROTHWELL|Re: Foam|Thanks Guys!  The container & storage guys do this quite often & spray on foam. fast & easy but not cheap. they do not finnish & fare or sand it. it's to stop condensation so your stuff doesn't get dammaged (same like on a Swain)  Unless I can find a cheaper meathod of doing it it will be done with 1" white styrofoam held into place with 1" x 2" framing, the whole mess held up into place by welding 3" sections of angle iron onto the sides of the container near the top.  Ah the joys of moving in December & January.  Again, Thanks Guys & any other info much appreciated!  Shane   	  	 		 __________________________________________________________  Find your next car at http://autos.yahoo.ca|
9745|9745|2005-12-02 12:07:56|Puck III|---   Frameless Steel Origami Trimaran   ---|From: origamiboats2@yahoogroups.com  Date: Fri Dec 2, 2005  4:51 pm  Subject: New file uploaded to origamiboats2   origamiboats2@yahoogroups.com     Hello,  This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the origamiboats2 group.  File : /Dancer 002.jpg Uploaded by : ben_azo <ben_azo@...> Description : Phill James 's Frameless Steel Origami Tri  You can access this file at the URL: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats2/files/Dancer%20002.jpg  To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit: http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files  Regards,  ben_azo <ben_azo@...>|
9746|9745|2005-12-02 12:30:08|Gerd|Re: ---   Frameless Steel Origami Trimaran   ---|Scary ... especially the beams ;-)|
9747|9744|2005-12-02 12:37:11|edward_stoneuk|Re: Foam|Shane,  If you Google froth-pak you should get info on DIY foam spraying.  If  you do use it please let us know how it went.  Regards,  Ted|
9748|9745|2005-12-02 14:00:08|tom|Re: ---   Frameless Steel Origami Trimaran   ---|I agree with Gerd on this one and after looking at the pictures I have to  ask, why a steel Tri? Tom  ----- Original Message -----  From: "Gerd" <yago@...> To: <origamiboats@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, December 02, 2005 9:27 AM Subject: [origamiboats] Re: --- Frameless Steel Origami Trimaran ---   > Scary ... especially the beams ;-) > > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:  > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > |
9749|9749|2005-12-02 14:15:41|Frank McNeill|Hi from an old “newbie”|I'm an old retired guy in Houston, Texas—much too poor to buy or build a  real sailboat, origami or otherwise— but I decided to join your group to poke  into your files, photos and links, and to invite anybody who is interested in  model sailboats to visit AllScaleModelSailboats at: <http://tinyurl.com/7sfkf>.  The group is owned by Graham McAllister, an experienced designer and  marketer of model planes, who has turned his hand to the construction of a  1/6th scale model of a Mirror Dinghy with a stitched hull that can be seen at:  <http://tinyurl.com/dgj8t>. As you know, stitching is one of the oldest methods  for building boats by a shell-first method, in contrast with metal bending which  is probably one of the newest. We need members with a variety of opinions  for the best way to build boat and ship models, which would make for more lively discussions— so please visit us from time to time, and sign on you like  what you see.  Best wishes,  Frank McNeill|
9750|9750|2005-12-02 15:00:37|Puck III|MiniSwail  a  Small Origami Design|From: origamiboats2@yahoogroups.com  Date: Fri Dec 2, 2005  8:51 pm  Subject: New file uploaded to origamiboats2   origamiboats2@yahoogroups.com   Send Email     Hello,  This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the origamiboats2 group.  File : /miniswail.gif Uploaded by : ben_azo <ben_azo@...> Description : Krsyz's Origami MiniSwail see also -- http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats2/files/aluOrigami2.jpg --  You can access this file at the URL: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats2/files/miniswail.gif  To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit: http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files  Regards,  ben_azo <ben_azo@...>|
9751|9745|2005-12-02 15:29:34|Puck III|Re: ---   Frameless Steel Origami Trimaran   ---|Hi Tom , Hi Gerd , Afther sailing the Steel Origami Tri from Australia to  New Guinea and the Solomons in the late seventhies the builder designer is alive and well and still has fine memories of that boat he calls save and seaworthy today :-)  Why a steel frameless Origami Tri ?? little money , the availability of the materials and a srong desire to go sailing [ no internet to loose all that precious time tchatting instead of sailing in those days ]  Certain personalities become more easely scared with age, with others the contrary happens :-)  Gerd you know I am the Repository Man :-) some call me even Mister Options :-)  Boatdesign evolves every day , new designs , new boats... All I realy do is point out to what I find , the older boats and the new designs.  I loved posting Kyloe the new Origami Aluminum see Link  File : /aluOrigami2.jpg Uploaded by : ben_azo <ben_azo@...> Description : Eric Autran's Kyloe , 2sheets 8mx2,5m for aluOrigami http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats2/files/aluOrigami2.jpg  Gerd , I hope you noticed the similarity to Krsyz's Mnich design MiniSwail , I posted for Tom .  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats2/files/miniswail.gif  Options , that's what it is all about. Why does one choose this instead or that other design ??  I can't answer but sure love the diversity :-) Dont you both love to see that there are so many  Origami Steel and Aluminum Boat Designs presented in here ? Yago is one of them , I realy look forward to see that boat sailing and how she will perform.  Good Luck to you both , keep us posted .  Old Ben  ------------------------------------------ From: "tom" <tazmann@...>  Date: Fri Dec 2, 2005  7:59 pm     I agree with Gerd on this one and after looking at the pictures I have to ask, why a steel Tri? Tom  ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gerd" <yago@...> To: <origamiboats@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, December 02, 2005 9:27 AM  Scary ... especially the beams ;-) -------------------------------------------         From: "Puck III" <ben_azo@...>  Date: Fri Dec 2, 2005  6:07 pm  Subject: --- Frameless Steel Origami Trimaran ---  ben_azo   Offline   Send Email    From: origamiboats2@yahoogroups.com Date: Fri Dec 2, 2005 4:51 pm Subject: New file uploaded to origamiboats2 origamiboats2@yahoogroups.com  Hello,  This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the origamiboats2 group.  File : /Dancer 002.jpg Uploaded by : ben_azo <ben_azo@...> Description : Phill James 's Frameless Steel Origami Tri  You can access this file at the URL: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats2/files/Dancer%20002.jpg  To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit: http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files  Regards,  ben_azo <ben_azo@...>   --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III" <ben_azo@h...> wrote: > > From: origamiboats2@yahoogroups.com  > Date: Fri Dec 2, 2005  4:51 pm  > Subject: New file uploaded to origamiboats2   > origamiboats2@yahoogroups.com  >    > Hello, >  > This email message is a notification to let you know that > a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the origamiboats2 > group. >  > File : /Dancer 002.jpg > Uploaded by : ben_azo <ben_azo@> > Description : Phill James 's Frameless Steel Origami Tri >  > You can access this file at the URL: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats2/files/Dancer%20002.jpg >  > To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit: > http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files >  > Regards, >  > ben_azo <ben_azo@> > |
9752|9749|2005-12-02 16:32:31|Puck III|Re: Hi from an old “newbie”|Hi Old Newbie , I became a new member in your Group, nice Intropic , nothing much posted yet , no problem I have posted " benshalfmodel1.jpg " in the Origamiboats2 files for you , a " full wooden desk or wall model "  You have some options :-) -   become a member in the Origamiboats2 Group and     follow the Link :    http://tinyurl.com/aaoub  -   if you like what you see , you may dowload it       and post it in the moderated section of your     new Group where I see not to many pics for now  -   you could change status from moderated to     unmoderated pics and file uploading in your Group  -   you can hope some people think differently,     personaly I do not post regularly in     moderated Groups.  Good Luck with your new Group .  Old Ben  --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Frank McNeill"  <frankmcneilll@y...> wrote:  > > I'm an old retired guy in Houston, Texas—much too poor to buy or   build a   > real sailboat, origami or otherwise— but I decided to join your   group to poke   > into your files, photos and links, and to invite anybody who is   interested in   > model sailboats to visit AllScaleModelSailboats at:   <http://tinyurl.com/7sfkf>.   > The group is owned by Graham McAllister, an experienced designer   and   > marketer of model planes, who has turned his hand to the   construction of a   > 1/6th scale model of a Mirror Dinghy with a stitched hull that can   be seen at:   > <http://tinyurl.com/dgj8t>. As you know, stitching is one of the   oldest methods   > for building boats by a shell-first method, in contrast with metal   bending which   > is probably one of the newest. We need members with a variety of   opinions   > for the best way to build boat and ship models, which would make   for more  > lively discussions— so please visit us from time to time, and sign   on you like   > what you see. >  > Best wishes,  > Frank McNeill > |
9753|9749|2005-12-02 17:17:22|Frank McNeill|Re: Hi from an old “newbie”|Hi Old Ben  Thanks for the tip, Origamiboats2 is for extra files I believe. I will take your advice and use your link. I’m not the owner or moderator of AllScaleModelSailboats, so I can’t change the status for posting files. The links section is activated, so I have put a few of them there. One is for some notions for ship models and toys and has some stuff that is a little bit like the pattern for an origami boat. I assume that you are referring to “members only” groups. I haven’t tried to join many of them since they started using little boxes where you are supposed to explain in 200 characters or less why you want to join. Like you, I also prefer “public” groups where you can read the posts before deciding whether you want to join.  Thanks for wishing us luck. The owner, Graham McAllister seems like a nice guy. He says he had 30 years experience with model planes and a lot of it can probably be carried over for use on model boats. Please stay with us long enough to take part in discussions because metal folding looks like a good way to build models. I’ve seen simple plans for making hulls for pop-pop boats from sheets of brass, but nothing yet that looked as nice as the beautiful origami yachts on Origamiboats.  Thanks for joining, I’m trying to round up more members and think Graham is doing the same, Because several of the new members didn’t join as a result of my efforts.   Best wishes,  Old Frank  --- Puck III <ben_azo@...> wrote:   > Hi Old Newbie , I became a new member in your Group, > nice Intropic , nothing much posted yet , no problem > I have posted " benshalfmodel1.jpg " in the > Origamiboats2 > files for you , a " full wooden desk or wall model " >  > You have some options :-) > -   become a member in the Origamiboats2 Group and >     follow the Link :    http://tinyurl.com/aaoub >  > -   if you like what you see , you may dowload it   >     and post it in the moderated section of your >     new Group where I see not to many pics for now >  > -   you could change status from moderated to >     unmoderated pics and file uploading in your > Group >  > -   you can hope some people think differently, >     personaly I do not post regularly in >     moderated Groups. >  > Good Luck with your new Group . >  > Old Ben >  > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Frank McNeill" >  > <frankmcneilll@y...> wrote: > > > > I'm an old retired guy in Houston, Texas—much too > poor to buy or  > build a  > > real sailboat, origami or otherwise— but I decided > to join your  > group to poke  > > into your files, photos and links, and to invite > anybody who is  > interested in  > > model sailboats to visit AllScaleModelSailboats > at:  > <http://tinyurl.com/7sfkf>.  > > The group is owned by Graham McAllister, an > experienced designer  > and  > > marketer of model planes, who has turned his hand > to the  > construction of a  > > 1/6th scale model of a Mirror Dinghy with a > stitched hull that can  > be seen at:  > > <http://tinyurl.com/dgj8t>. As you know, stitching > is one of the  > oldest methods  > > for building boats by a shell-first method, in > contrast with metal  > bending which  > > is probably one of the newest. We need members > with a variety of  > opinions  > > for the best way to build boat and ship models, > which would make  > for more > > lively discussions— so please visit us from time > to time, and sign  > on you like  > > what you see. > >  > > Best wishes,  > > Frank McNeill > > >  >  >  >  >     		  __________________________________________  Yahoo! DSL – Something to write home about.  Just $16.99/mo. or less.  dsl.yahoo.com|
9754|9745|2005-12-02 17:25:36|Gerd|Re: ---   Frameless Steel Origami Trimaran   ---|Don't get me wrong, Ben, that IS an interesting link for sure ;-)  I even have to admit that occasionally I dig out my calcs from time  to time for the famous steel cat that is always in the air and never  gets built. And everytime I put them back knowing that it won't be  built anytime soon either... ;-)  By the way, what makes you say it's origami? looks like a straight  two-panel "V" without darts to me, no?  Gerd   --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III" <ben_azo@h...>  wrote:  > > Hi Tom , Hi Gerd , > Afther sailing the Steel Origami Tri from Australia to  > New Guinea and the Solomons in the late seventhies the > builder designer is alive and well and still has fine > memories of that boat he calls save and seaworthy today :-) >  > Why a steel frameless Origami Tri ?? > little money , the availability of the materials and > a srong desire to go sailing [ no internet to loose > all that precious time tchatting instead of sailing > in those days ] >  > Certain personalities become more easely scared with age, > with others the contrary happens :-) >  > Gerd you know I am the Repository Man :-) > some call me even Mister Options :-) >  > Boatdesign evolves every day , new designs , new boats... > All I realy do is point out to what I find , > the older boats and the new designs. >  > I loved posting Kyloe the new Origami Aluminum see Link >  > File : /aluOrigami2.jpg Uploaded by : ben_azo <ben_azo@> > Description : Eric Autran's Kyloe , 2sheets 8mx2,5m for aluOrigami > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats2/files/aluOrigami2.jpg >  > Gerd , I hope you noticed the similarity to Krsyz's Mnich > design MiniSwail , I posted for Tom . >  > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats2/files/miniswail.gif >  > Options , that's what it is all about. > Why does one choose this instead or that other design ?? >  > I can't answer but sure love the diversity :-) > Dont you both love to see that there are so many  > Origami Steel and Aluminum Boat Designs presented in here ? > Yago is one of them , I realy look forward to see that > boat sailing and how she will perform. >  > Good Luck to you both , keep us posted . >  > Old Ben >  > ------------------------------------------ > From: "tom" <tazmann@>  > Date: Fri Dec 2, 2005  7:59 pm  >    > I agree with Gerd on this one and after looking at the pictures > I have to ask, why a steel Tri? > Tom > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Gerd" <yago@> > To: <origamiboats@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Friday, December 02, 2005 9:27 AM >  > Scary ... especially the beams ;-) > -------------------------------------------  >        > From: "Puck III" <ben_azo@h...>  > Date: Fri Dec 2, 2005  6:07 pm  > Subject: --- Frameless Steel Origami Trimaran ---  ben_azo  >  Offline  >  Send Email   >  > From: origamiboats2@yahoogroups.com > Date: Fri Dec 2, 2005 4:51 pm > Subject: New file uploaded to origamiboats2 > origamiboats2@yahoogroups.com >  > Hello, >  > This email message is a notification to let you know that > a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the origamiboats2 > group. >  > File : /Dancer 002.jpg > Uploaded by : ben_azo <ben_azo@> > Description : Phill James 's Frameless Steel Origami Tri >  > You can access this file at the URL: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats2/files/Dancer%20002.jpg >  > To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit: > http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files >  > Regards, >  > ben_azo <ben_azo@> >  >  > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III" <ben_azo@h...>   wrote:  > > > > From: origamiboats2@yahoogroups.com  > > Date: Fri Dec 2, 2005  4:51 pm  > > Subject: New file uploaded to origamiboats2   > > origamiboats2@yahoogroups.com  > >    > > Hello, > >  > > This email message is a notification to let you know that > > a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the origamiboats2 > > group. > >  > > File : /Dancer 002.jpg > > Uploaded by : ben_azo <ben_azo@> > > Description : Phill James 's Frameless Steel Origami Tri > >  > > You can access this file at the URL: > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats2/files/Dancer%  20002.jpg  > >  > > To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit: > > http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files > >  > > Regards, > >  > > ben_azo <ben_azo@> > > > |
9755|9745|2005-12-02 17:51:00|richytill|Re: ---   Frameless Steel Origami Trimaran   ---|If the principle of a multihull is to achive stability through  bouyancy rather than ballast--aluminum would seem to be a better  choice than steel if metal is the medium.  rt      --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Gerd" <yago@j...> wrote: > > Don't get me wrong, Ben, that IS an interesting link for sure ;-) >  > I even have to admit that occasionally I dig out my calcs from time  > to time for the famous steel cat that is always in the air and  never  > gets built. And everytime I put them back knowing that it won't be  > built anytime soon either... ;-) >  > By the way, what makes you say it's origami? looks like a straight  > two-panel "V" without darts to me, no? >  > Gerd >  >  --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III" <ben_azo@h...>  > wrote: > > > > Hi Tom , Hi Gerd , > > Afther sailing the Steel Origami Tri from Australia to  > > New Guinea and the Solomons in the late seventhies the > > builder designer is alive and well and still has fine > > memories of that boat he calls save and seaworthy today :-) > >  > > Why a steel frameless Origami Tri ?? > > little money , the availability of the materials and > > a srong desire to go sailing [ no internet to loose > > all that precious time tchatting instead of sailing > > in those days ] > >  > > Certain personalities become more easely scared with age, > > with others the contrary happens :-) > >  > > Gerd you know I am the Repository Man :-) > > some call me even Mister Options :-) > >  > > Boatdesign evolves every day , new designs , new boats... > > All I realy do is point out to what I find , > > the older boats and the new designs. > >  > > I loved posting Kyloe the new Origami Aluminum see Link > >  > > File : /aluOrigami2.jpg Uploaded by : ben_azo <ben_azo@> > > Description : Eric Autran's Kyloe , 2sheets 8mx2,5m for aluOrigami > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats2/files/aluOrigami2.jpg > >  > > Gerd , I hope you noticed the similarity to Krsyz's Mnich > > design MiniSwail , I posted for Tom . > >  > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats2/files/miniswail.gif > >  > > Options , that's what it is all about. > > Why does one choose this instead or that other design ?? > >  > > I can't answer but sure love the diversity :-) > > Dont you both love to see that there are so many  > > Origami Steel and Aluminum Boat Designs presented in here ? > > Yago is one of them , I realy look forward to see that > > boat sailing and how she will perform. > >  > > Good Luck to you both , keep us posted . > >  > > Old Ben > >  > > ------------------------------------------ > > From: "tom" <tazmann@>  > > Date: Fri Dec 2, 2005  7:59 pm  > >    > > I agree with Gerd on this one and after looking at the pictures > > I have to ask, why a steel Tri? > > Tom > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Gerd" <yago@> > > To: <origamiboats@yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Friday, December 02, 2005 9:27 AM > >  > > Scary ... especially the beams ;-) > > -------------------------------------------  > >        > > From: "Puck III" <ben_azo@h...>  > > Date: Fri Dec 2, 2005  6:07 pm  > > Subject: --- Frameless Steel Origami Trimaran ---  ben_azo  > >  Offline  > >  Send Email   > >  > > From: origamiboats2@yahoogroups.com > > Date: Fri Dec 2, 2005 4:51 pm > > Subject: New file uploaded to origamiboats2 > > origamiboats2@yahoogroups.com > >  > > Hello, > >  > > This email message is a notification to let you know that > > a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the origamiboats2 > > group. > >  > > File : /Dancer 002.jpg > > Uploaded by : ben_azo <ben_azo@> > > Description : Phill James 's Frameless Steel Origami Tri > >  > > You can access this file at the URL: > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats2/files/Dancer%20002.jpg > >  > > To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit: > > http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files > >  > > Regards, > >  > > ben_azo <ben_azo@> > >  > >  > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III" <ben_azo@h...>  > wrote: > > > > > > From: origamiboats2@yahoogroups.com  > > > Date: Fri Dec 2, 2005  4:51 pm  > > > Subject: New file uploaded to origamiboats2   > > > origamiboats2@yahoogroups.com  > > >    > > > Hello, > > >  > > > This email message is a notification to let you know that > > > a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the origamiboats2 > > > group. > > >  > > > File : /Dancer 002.jpg > > > Uploaded by : ben_azo <ben_azo@> > > > Description : Phill James 's Frameless Steel Origami Tri > > >  > > > You can access this file at the URL: > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats2/files/Dancer% > 20002.jpg > > >  > > > To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit: > > > http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files > > >  > > > Regards, > > >  > > > ben_azo <ben_azo@> > > > > > > |
9756|9708|2005-12-02 20:50:23|a_admi|Re: BS 26 footer|Hi Tom and Jason , Brent Swain's confirmation mail came just in , the plans and book , what a nice Christmas present .  De: "brent swain" <brentswain38@...>   Ajouter au carnet d'adresses  Objet: RE: Order for BS 26 plans  Date: Fri, 02 Dec 2005 21:03:17 +0000       Admi  Yes ,you do have the address right, and can send payment in Euros.  I'll send the plans and book as soon as I receive payement.   Thanks  Brent swain   May I repost :  > Is there a French speaking Canadian that is familiar with > both the english and french technical terms in this Group ?  Dictionaires , except for technical ones I do not posses are not good for translating english technical terms . Does anybody know a link to a technical dictionary ?  Monday I go send my express letter to Mr Swain. I will continue to watch Tom's work in his photoalbum. I would love to know how many , like me , plan building a BS 26  Regards and thanks in advance.   --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "a_admi" <a_admi@y...> wrote: > > You are not alone having a revived interest . > I borrowed the Video and Tom's pretty pics > convinced me the BS 26 is the boat I want. > I have send a mail to order the plans yesterday , > I just checked my mailbox awaiting Brent Swain's confirmation mail. > I am from Indian origin but my parents live and run a business > in Africa , where import taxes on private boats are 100% , > so building the BS 26 will be the best saving , no import tax . > I think the BS 26 will be my lucky project boat . > I hope to be able to post pics soon to , > because I would love to be on the water next summer holiday. > I will have to convert every measurement to metric , > and hope to find the same plate measurements . > I certainly have a wooden mast in a tabernacle . > I hesitated a lot , now I would love to have the plans yesterday. > Is there a French speaking Canadian that is familiar with > both the english and french technical terms in this Group ? > Thanks in advance for any help regarding that translation  difficulty . >  > Good luck to you Tom and thanks again for your photos. >  >  > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Jason Stancil"  > <jasonstancil@h...> wrote: > > > > Like alot of other folks i've been enjoing the buzz about the 26  > > lately. I need to motivate and order some plans. Any idea what  dry  > > weight of the boat is....displacement is close to 6,800 lbs i  think. > > Trying to figure if it could handle all the crap i tend to  > accumilate.  > > Has anyone tried wooden decks/superstructure to save weight on  any of  > > Brent's boats or does the construction technique rely on the deck  for  > > structural integrity. > >  > > Thanks > > Jason > > > |
9757|9720|2005-12-02 20:50:53|Jon & Wanda(Tink)|Re: Foaming|The spray foam I am talking about that they are useing to insalate  homes is not the HD type in a small can for windows and doors but the  same as used on large ships and the same guys are doing it. One thing  with the equipment they use is it pre heats the two parts so they react  and set up quickly. As far as closed cell the inner surface of a boat  that is fared and sanded those cells are open but can be glassed over  if you want to.  Jon   I'm not sure that using .5# vs 1 or 1.5# really means that much   > as far a flotation is concerned.  If you are trying to give the  > vessel positive flotation, you are going to need a heck of a lot of  > flotation.  I would think that how well it stands up in the marine  > environment is most important. >  > As for using house type spray foam, from what I can gather, open  > cell is used in homes and I would think that one would want closed  > cell in a boat. I'm no expert on this topic but would think this  > worth investigating.  I'm sure someone here (Brent?) knows what they  > are using to foam steel boats.  Mickey, do you know what they used  > on your boat? >  > eric S/V Nebaras > |
9758|9745|2005-12-02 22:33:37|Puck III|Re: ---   Frameless Steel Origami Trimaran   ---|Hi Gerd , Hi Richy , steel over aluminum is just a matter of choice , economics most of the time .  Gred , I think Origami can be dartless , I sure do remember you tried to optain an agreement over the definition in this Group .  As a defender of free thinking and freedom of opinion, I abstained wisely in that discusion.  I think the designs and boats GO5 and O40 from http://www.guydesigngroup.fi/  http://tinyurl.com/dy94q       for the GO5   and http://tinyurl.com/bky3z       for the O40 are direct Links for those members also member in the : http://groups.yahoo.com/group/OrigamiPlyBoatDesign/ Group  Just have a look at both designs , I dont post them here cause they are in GRP , not on the Topic in here , and tell me if you consider them Origami designs.  I also think the OUT ISLAND MonoMaran , by http://www.guydesigngroup.fi/  is a perfect example that the Monomaran is worth looking into as an option , even for small boats , but I found no interest in here. I hope you remember my multiple posts .  A small Origami build Monomaran ??? Just lett me know when interested :-)  Gerd , dont tell me you will exclude the wooden Tornado cat hulls from the Origami List because they have no darts .  Darts realy belong in the Pub , Darts is fine for entertainement while drinking :-)  Ready to go to the Pub , anytime :-)  Old Ben    --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "richytill" <tillrc@h...> wrote: > > If the principle of a multihull is to achive stability through  > bouyancy rather than ballast--aluminum would seem to be a better  > choice than steel if metal is the medium.  rt >   --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Gerd" <yago@j...> wrote: > > > > Don't get me wrong, Ben, that IS an interesting link for sure ;-) > >  > > I even have to admit that occasionally I dig out my calcs from  time  > > to time for the famous steel cat that is always in the air and  > never  > > gets built. And everytime I put them back knowing that it won't  be  > > built anytime soon either... ;-) > >  > > By the way, what makes you say it's origami? looks like a  straight  > > two-panel "V" without darts to me, no? > >  > > Gerd > >  > >  --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III" <ben_azo@h...>  > > wrote: > > > > > > Hi Tom , Hi Gerd , > > > Afther sailing the Steel Origami Tri from Australia to  > > > New Guinea and the Solomons in the late seventhies the > > > builder designer is alive and well and still has fine > > > memories of that boat he calls save and seaworthy today :-) > > >  > > > Why a steel frameless Origami Tri ?? > > > little money , the availability of the materials and > > > a srong desire to go sailing [ no internet to loose > > > all that precious time tchatting instead of sailing > > > in those days ] > > >  > > > Certain personalities become more easely scared with age, > > > with others the contrary happens :-) > > >  > > > Gerd you know I am the Repository Man :-) > > > some call me even Mister Options :-) > > >  > > > Boatdesign evolves every day , new designs , new boats... > > > All I realy do is point out to what I find , > > > the older boats and the new designs. > > >  > > > I loved posting Kyloe the new Origami Aluminum see Link > > >  > > > File : /aluOrigami2.jpg Uploaded by : ben_azo <ben_azo@> > > > Description : Eric Autran's Kyloe , 2sheets 8mx2,5m for  aluOrigami > > >  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats2/files/aluOrigami2.jpg > > >  > > > Gerd , I hope you noticed the similarity to Krsyz's Mnich > > > design MiniSwail , I posted for Tom . > > >  > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats2/files/miniswail.gif > > >  > > > Options , that's what it is all about. > > > Why does one choose this instead or that other design ?? > > >  > > > I can't answer but sure love the diversity :-) > > > Dont you both love to see that there are so many  > > > Origami Steel and Aluminum Boat Designs presented in here ? > > > Yago is one of them , I realy look forward to see that > > > boat sailing and how she will perform. > > >  > > > Good Luck to you both , keep us posted . > > >  > > > Old Ben > > >  > > > ------------------------------------------ > > > From: "tom" <tazmann@>  > > > Date: Fri Dec 2, 2005  7:59 pm  > > >    > > > I agree with Gerd on this one and after looking at the pictures > > > I have to ask, why a steel Tri? > > > Tom > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Gerd" <yago@> > > > To: <origamiboats@yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Friday, December 02, 2005 9:27 AM > > >  > > > Scary ... especially the beams ;-) > > > -------------------------------------------  > > >        > > > From: "Puck III" <ben_azo@h...>  > > > Date: Fri Dec 2, 2005  6:07 pm  > > > Subject: --- Frameless Steel Origami Trimaran ---  ben_azo  > > >  Offline  > > >  Send Email   > > >  > > > From: origamiboats2@yahoogroups.com > > > Date: Fri Dec 2, 2005 4:51 pm > > > Subject: New file uploaded to origamiboats2 > > > origamiboats2@yahoogroups.com > > >  > > > Hello, > > >  > > > This email message is a notification to let you know that > > > a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the origamiboats2 > > > group. > > >  > > > File : /Dancer 002.jpg > > > Uploaded by : ben_azo <ben_azo@> > > > Description : Phill James 's Frameless Steel Origami Tri > > >  > > > You can access this file at the URL: > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats2/files/Dancer% 20002.jpg > > >  > > > To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit: > > > http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files > > >  > > > Regards, > > >  > > > ben_azo <ben_azo@> > > >  > > >  > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III" <ben_azo@h...>  > > wrote: > > > > > > > > From: origamiboats2@yahoogroups.com  > > > > Date: Fri Dec 2, 2005  4:51 pm  > > > > Subject: New file uploaded to origamiboats2   > > > > origamiboats2@yahoogroups.com  > > > >    > > > > Hello, > > > >  > > > > This email message is a notification to let you know that > > > > a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the  origamiboats2 > > > > group. > > > >  > > > > File : /Dancer 002.jpg > > > > Uploaded by : ben_azo <ben_azo@> > > > > Description : Phill James 's Frameless Steel Origami Tri > > > >  > > > > You can access this file at the URL: > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats2/files/Dancer% > > 20002.jpg > > > >  > > > > To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit: > > > > http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files > > > >  > > > > Regards, > > > >  > > > > ben_azo <ben_azo@> > > > > > > > > > > |
9759|9641|2005-12-02 22:47:02|seeratlas|Re: Mold question (Webbing)|Don't think you're getting the picture Michael. Think more of a row of battens under the mattress and some webbing between them to hold them in place. The wood holds the weight, not the webbing. The webbing just keeps them properly spaced, kind of like a very closely spaced rope ladder. The other analogy is like that type of window blind that has horizonal 'battens' tied together such that you can roll em up and down.  Works out really well on all fronts for a boat unless you roll :) course then its better flying thru the air with some battens and a mattress than a 4x8 LOL. (been there, got my 'wings' :)  seer   --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Michael Casling <casling@s...> wrote: > > The older chesterfields have webbing to support the part that is sat on. > The webbing is spaced very close and the frame needs to be very strong to support the tension of the webbing. Upholsterers use a webbing puller. The webbing is pulled very tight. This is not something that could be easily done on a boat. >  > Michael >   ----- Original Message -----  >   From: seeratlas  >   To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com  >   Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2005 9:34 AM >   Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Mold question (Webbing) >  >  >   First sorry bout the delay, been busy as heck and unable to get to the >   group. :( >  >   Ok, in general I don't recommend webbing without slats. you will do >   some serious aching in the back dept. sooner or later. A hammock can >   be made bearable but generally by putting lots of bedding in it to >   smooth it out. >  >   I'm talking about transverse wooden or other material slats with the >   mattress on top. :) >  >   seer >  >   --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "edward_stoneuk" <tedstone@g...> >   wrote: >   > >   > Seer, >   > I thought about using woven webbing as a base for bunks as I have some  >   > that came from the rigging of a hot air balloon.  The problem that I  >   > foresee is tensioning it so that it doesn't sag like a hammock.  That  >   > can give one a bad back.  To keep tension one would need a strong  >   > frame and probably a means of adjusting individual webbing straps.  Do  >   > you have any good ideas on that? >   > Regards, >   > Ted >   > >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >   To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com >   To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com  >  >  >  > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >   YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS  >  >     a..  Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web. >        >     b..  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >      origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com >        >     c..  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.  >  >  > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >  >  >  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > |
9760|9735|2005-12-02 22:52:50|seeratlas|Re: insulation|Ben, I seemed to remember something about zinc below waterline as being a 'bad idea' because all you have to do is bump one little metal bouy, can, what have you- gouge the paint and now you have a battery which will slough off your bottom paint. I seem to remember that Brent posted something about having tried it and couldn't keep paint on the rudder or keels or whatever it was that he had zinc on.  seer    --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III" <ben_azo@h...> wrote: > > Hi Tom , your idea is excellent ! > Zinga is a first class proven product .  > You can spray it thin , exces product will not give more protection , > as long as you apply the Zinga immediatly afther sanding , > on a well cleaned dry surface . > The protection start as soon as contact with air is finished . >  > Before paint is applied on the in or outside , > the only precaution to be taken is to protect the surface > from all flying little metal parts , so do all metal grinding > at a good distance from the hull and deck , or protect the > surface against any tiny projections that would start > rusting later from under the paint . >  > The Nansulate can be sprayed to and again it is useless to > apply to much . Again it is a proven product . >  > BUT  The Nansulate is no sound insulator , soo you will have > to count only on the sound insulation value of the wooden > or other liner you think attaching over that. >  > Making that easely detachable , as you say , is the best > solution in case you need repairing , install conducts for  > wiring or anything behind that surface. >  > Plywood with or without a formica finish , or any other  > water resistant paneling material seems the easyest > solution , as long as it is thin enough to bend easely , > cause your hull and deck was build up from a developable > surface [ a major Origami advantage ] so you will be able > to do a fast job , you sure still have the patterns that > stay the same as for the hull minus a bit :-) >  > How will you attach those panels ? Thats another Topic > for later but you can think about it , cause it could be > usefull to leave airspace between those panels and the > hull and deck surface , the way the Dutch do . >  > In case you decide to sail to Alaska or sell your boat > to a guy that want to sail to Alaska , you can always > apply a heatbarier later on , symply by attaching it > to the backside of the panels , so your hull can  > allways be made free without any hasle . >  > This is what I think , sure there are much different > options worth considering to >  > Old Ben  >  > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "tazmannusa" <tazmann@i...>  > wrote: > > > > Hello All > >   I have ben reading up on a product called Nansulate,its a  > transluent  > > insulation paint and its desighned for industrial applications up  > to  > > 400 degrees. What I have ben considering is going the Zinga cold  > > galvanizing on the whole boat inside and out and coating the inside  > > with Nansulate seems like it would be a lot easyer to maintain, you  > > could see through it and do any repairs without a problem VS foam  > > where you wouldnt know you have a problem. > > Has anyone ever tryed somthing like this or any thoughts on the  > idea? > >  Ohh ya its going on a BS26 mainly sailed on California coast not  > > Alaska "too cold for me up there" > > Tom > > > |
9761|9735|2005-12-03 01:32:34|Puck III|Re: insulation|Hi Seer , if you would bump a metal bouy in my waters , good chances are you bump into a bouy protected by Zinga . I happen to know the Dutch use it to protect and  maintain their bouys to . Except for charity donations , were the Dutch are amongst   the most generous donators , it is well know they have short arms and deep pockets when it comes to spending money . They want the best product for the best price .  Except for Inox and Korten steel , any steel that is robbed from its protective layer of protection will start rusting......... its as simple as that.  In my city there are many old iron boats , mild steel bolted since more than 100 years.  I know that many owners started using Zinga and are happy for now , it sure is easyer than the old tar protection. Not that I do not like Tar , on the contrary ! You could be in for a surprise learning all the naughty things one can do with Tar :-)  I have no shares in the Zinga company. Just thinking some people are extreemly happy using it .  Wanne know something Sear ?? I remember something about smooking being a 'bad idea ' even my own dokter tells me it is a stupid thing to do. Well , naughty and weak as I am , I continue smoking .  I found myself a fine excuse ,I answer to anybody telling me how stupid I am : that I smoke mint  sigarettes and that mint is healthy for the lungs .  I fooled myself the same way when I bought my latest GRP boat , it demands as much maintenance as a well build steel.  Can one trust my judgement ??? I wonder :-)  In the end it's all about choosing between options. Presenting those options in the funnyest manner is all I realy can..........  Its easy to scare people , just ask why Canadians are less scared than US cityzens ? I hear most think its normal to leave the entrance door open.  Bowling for Columbine........gives an insight.  Gerd , if you read this , I have been smooking nothing of the stuff you could eventualy dare to suggest :-)  In the harbour of Breskens on the Schelde , you can find immerged test-rafts.... where one test all different products in its natural different environment.  Some nautical magasines publish those tests , you may even find those test results on line.  If you worry , search for them and post us a Link.  Why do people worry so much all the time ?? I sure do not , cause I am not easely influenced or under the influence.  Cheers Old Ben    --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "seeratlas" <seeratlas@y...>  wrote:  > > Ben, > I seemed to remember something about zinc below waterline as being a > 'bad idea' because all you have to do is bump one little metal bouy, > can, what have you- gouge the paint and now you have a battery which > will slough off your bottom paint. I seem to remember that Brent > posted something about having tried it and couldn't keep paint on   the  > rudder or keels or whatever it was that he had zinc on. >  > seer >  >  > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III" <ben_azo@h...>   wrote:  > > > > Hi Tom , your idea is excellent ! > > Zinga is a first class proven product .  > > You can spray it thin , exces product will not give more   protection ,  > > as long as you apply the Zinga immediatly afther sanding , > > on a well cleaned dry surface . > > The protection start as soon as contact with air is finished . > >  > > Before paint is applied on the in or outside , > > the only precaution to be taken is to protect the surface > > from all flying little metal parts , so do all metal grinding > > at a good distance from the hull and deck , or protect the > > surface against any tiny projections that would start > > rusting later from under the paint . > >  > > The Nansulate can be sprayed to and again it is useless to > > apply to much . Again it is a proven product . > >  > > BUT  The Nansulate is no sound insulator , soo you will have > > to count only on the sound insulation value of the wooden > > or other liner you think attaching over that. > >  > > Making that easely detachable , as you say , is the best > > solution in case you need repairing , install conducts for  > > wiring or anything behind that surface. > >  > > Plywood with or without a formica finish , or any other  > > water resistant paneling material seems the easyest > > solution , as long as it is thin enough to bend easely , > > cause your hull and deck was build up from a developable > > surface [ a major Origami advantage ] so you will be able > > to do a fast job , you sure still have the patterns that > > stay the same as for the hull minus a bit :-) > >  > > How will you attach those panels ? Thats another Topic > > for later but you can think about it , cause it could be > > usefull to leave airspace between those panels and the > > hull and deck surface , the way the Dutch do . > >  > > In case you decide to sail to Alaska or sell your boat > > to a guy that want to sail to Alaska , you can always > > apply a heatbarier later on , symply by attaching it > > to the backside of the panels , so your hull can  > > allways be made free without any hasle . > >  > > This is what I think , sure there are much different > > options worth considering to > >  > > Old Ben  > >  > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "tazmannusa" <tazmann@i...>  > > wrote: > > > > > > Hello All > > >   I have ben reading up on a product called Nansulate,its a  > > transluent  > > > insulation paint and its desighned for industrial applications   up   > > to  > > > 400 degrees. What I have ben considering is going the Zinga   cold   > > > galvanizing on the whole boat inside and out and coating the   inside   > > > with Nansulate seems like it would be a lot easyer to maintain,   you   > > > could see through it and do any repairs without a problem VS   foam   > > > where you wouldnt know you have a problem. > > > Has anyone ever tryed somthing like this or any thoughts on the  > > idea? > > >  Ohh ya its going on a BS26 mainly sailed on California coast   not   > > > Alaska "too cold for me up there" > > > Tom > > > > > > |
9762|9745|2005-12-03 07:42:12|Gerd|Re: ---   Frameless Steel Origami Trimaran   ---|Well, Ben, we sure don't seem to have the same ideas about  definitions ;-)  For me origami means forcibly darts, otherwise it's any sort of hull  built from developable panels, but let's not start that again ;-)  But what the heck is then the definition of a monomaran???  Gerd  --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III" <ben_azo@h...> wrote: > > Hi Gerd , Hi Richy , > steel over aluminum is just a matter of choice , > economics most of the time . >  > Gred , I think Origami can be dartless , I sure do > remember you tried to optain an agreement over the > definition in this Group .  > As a defender of free thinking and freedom of opinion, > I abstained wisely in that discusion. >  > I think the designs and boats GO5 and O40 from > http://www.guydesigngroup.fi/ >  > http://tinyurl.com/dy94q       for the GO5   and > http://tinyurl.com/bky3z       for the O40 > are direct Links for those members also member in the : > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/OrigamiPlyBoatDesign/ Group >  > Just have a look at both designs , I dont post them here > cause they are in GRP , not on the Topic in here , and > tell me if you consider them Origami designs. >  > I also think the OUT ISLAND MonoMaran , by > http://www.guydesigngroup.fi/  is a perfect example > that the Monomaran is worth looking into as an option > , even for small boats , but I found no interest in here. > I hope you remember my multiple posts . >  > A small Origami build Monomaran ??? > Just lett me know when interested :-) >  > Gerd , dont tell me you will exclude the wooden > Tornado cat hulls from the Origami List because > they have no darts . >  > Darts realy belong in the Pub , > Darts is fine for entertainement while drinking :-) >  > Ready to go to the Pub , anytime :-) >  > Old Ben  >  > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "richytill" <tillrc@h...>  wrote: > > > > If the principle of a multihull is to achive stability through  > > bouyancy rather than ballast--aluminum would seem to be a better  > > choice than steel if metal is the medium.  rt > >  >  --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Gerd" <yago@j...> wrote: > > > > > > Don't get me wrong, Ben, that IS an interesting link for  sure ;-) > > >  > > > I even have to admit that occasionally I dig out my calcs from  > time  > > > to time for the famous steel cat that is always in the air and  > > never  > > > gets built. And everytime I put them back knowing that it  won't  > be  > > > built anytime soon either... ;-) > > >  > > > By the way, what makes you say it's origami? looks like a  > straight  > > > two-panel "V" without darts to me, no? > > >  > > > Gerd > > >  > > >  --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III"  <ben_azo@h...>  > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi Tom , Hi Gerd , > > > > Afther sailing the Steel Origami Tri from Australia to  > > > > New Guinea and the Solomons in the late seventhies the > > > > builder designer is alive and well and still has fine > > > > memories of that boat he calls save and seaworthy today :-) > > > >  > > > > Why a steel frameless Origami Tri ?? > > > > little money , the availability of the materials and > > > > a srong desire to go sailing [ no internet to loose > > > > all that precious time tchatting instead of sailing > > > > in those days ] > > > >  > > > > Certain personalities become more easely scared with age, > > > > with others the contrary happens :-) > > > >  > > > > Gerd you know I am the Repository Man :-) > > > > some call me even Mister Options :-) > > > >  > > > > Boatdesign evolves every day , new designs , new boats... > > > > All I realy do is point out to what I find , > > > > the older boats and the new designs. > > > >  > > > > I loved posting Kyloe the new Origami Aluminum see Link > > > >  > > > > File : /aluOrigami2.jpg Uploaded by : ben_azo <ben_azo@> > > > > Description : Eric Autran's Kyloe , 2sheets 8mx2,5m for  > aluOrigami > > > >  > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats2/files/aluOrigami2.jpg > > > >  > > > > Gerd , I hope you noticed the similarity to Krsyz's Mnich > > > > design MiniSwail , I posted for Tom . > > > >  > > > >  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats2/files/miniswail.gif > > > >  > > > > Options , that's what it is all about. > > > > Why does one choose this instead or that other design ?? > > > >  > > > > I can't answer but sure love the diversity :-) > > > > Dont you both love to see that there are so many  > > > > Origami Steel and Aluminum Boat Designs presented in here ? > > > > Yago is one of them , I realy look forward to see that > > > > boat sailing and how she will perform. > > > >  > > > > Good Luck to you both , keep us posted . > > > >  > > > > Old Ben > > > >  > > > > ------------------------------------------ > > > > From: "tom" <tazmann@>  > > > > Date: Fri Dec 2, 2005  7:59 pm  > > > >    > > > > I agree with Gerd on this one and after looking at the  pictures > > > > I have to ask, why a steel Tri? > > > > Tom > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: "Gerd" <yago@> > > > > To: <origamiboats@yahoogroups.com> > > > > Sent: Friday, December 02, 2005 9:27 AM > > > >  > > > > Scary ... especially the beams ;-) > > > > -------------------------------------------  > > > >        > > > > From: "Puck III" <ben_azo@h...>  > > > > Date: Fri Dec 2, 2005  6:07 pm  > > > > Subject: --- Frameless Steel Origami Trimaran ---  ben_azo  > > > >  Offline  > > > >  Send Email   > > > >  > > > > From: origamiboats2@yahoogroups.com > > > > Date: Fri Dec 2, 2005 4:51 pm > > > > Subject: New file uploaded to origamiboats2 > > > > origamiboats2@yahoogroups.com > > > >  > > > > Hello, > > > >  > > > > This email message is a notification to let you know that > > > > a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the  origamiboats2 > > > > group. > > > >  > > > > File : /Dancer 002.jpg > > > > Uploaded by : ben_azo <ben_azo@> > > > > Description : Phill James 's Frameless Steel Origami Tri > > > >  > > > > You can access this file at the URL: > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats2/files/Dancer% > 20002.jpg > > > >  > > > > To learn more about file sharing for your group, please  visit: > > > > http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files > > > >  > > > > Regards, > > > >  > > > > ben_azo <ben_azo@> > > > >  > > > >  > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III"  <ben_azo@h...>  > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > From: origamiboats2@yahoogroups.com  > > > > > Date: Fri Dec 2, 2005  4:51 pm  > > > > > Subject: New file uploaded to origamiboats2   > > > > > origamiboats2@yahoogroups.com  > > > > >    > > > > > Hello, > > > > >  > > > > > This email message is a notification to let you know that > > > > > a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the  > origamiboats2 > > > > > group. > > > > >  > > > > > File : /Dancer 002.jpg > > > > > Uploaded by : ben_azo <ben_azo@> > > > > > Description : Phill James 's Frameless Steel Origami Tri > > > > >  > > > > > You can access this file at the URL: > > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats2/files/Dancer% > > > 20002.jpg > > > > >  > > > > > To learn more about file sharing for your group, please  visit: > > > > > http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files > > > > >  > > > > > Regards, > > > > >  > > > > > ben_azo <ben_azo@> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > |
9763|9745|2005-12-03 09:24:03|cirejay|Re: ---   Frameless Steel Origami Trimaran   ---|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Gerd" <yago@j...> wrote:  >  > But what the heck is then the definition of a monomaran???   Well, the answer is simply.  All you need do is break the word down to  figure it out so here goes:  Mono - this is easy - one; Ma - this is  short for Mother (guess one has to be American to easily figure this  one out); and last but not least Ran - yep, Ran is ran.  So we end up  with ONE MOTHER RAN. Oh well:-)  eric S/V Nebaras  PS, I need to get a life|
9764|9745|2005-12-03 11:23:08|Puck III|Re: ---   Frameless Steel Origami Trimaran   ---|Hi Seer , Hi Gerd , about the definition of a Monomaran.......  Gerd , as far as I am concerned , Seer's definition is perfect , it has at least the merrit to be funny .  I realy think my opinion about definitions is totaly irrelevant:-)  I can't let you drag me down to your level of experience in definitions , cause you will beat me with your experience........  Just thinking : who the hell cares about definitions ??  Those who care , will sure lett us know :-)  Old Ben  PS, I need to get a life  ( I love that one Seer , and I aint drinking or smooking :-)   ------------------------------------------------------- From: "cirejay" <cirejay@...> Date: Sat Dec 3, 2005  3:23 pm  Subject: Re: --- Frameless Steel Origami Trimaran ---  cirejay      --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Gerd" <yago@j...> wrote: > > But what the heck is then the definition of a monomaran???  Well, the answer is simply. All you need do is break the word down to figure it out so here goes: Mono - this is easy - one; Ma - this is short for Mother (guess one has to be American to easily figure this one out); and last but not least Ran - yep, Ran is ran. So we end up with ONE MOTHER RAN. Oh well:-)  eric S/V Nebaras  PS, I need to get a life   ----------------------------------------------- From: "Gerd" <yago@...>  Date: Sat Dec 3, 2005  1:39 pm  Subject: Re: --- Frameless Steel Origami Trimaran ---  yago_project     Well, Ben, we sure don't seem to have the same ideas about definitions ;-)  For me origami means forcibly darts, otherwise it's any sort of hull built from developable panels, but let's not start that again ;-)  But what the heck is then the definition of a monomaran???  Gerd   -------------------------------------------------- --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III" <ben_azo@h...> wrote: > > Hi Gerd , Hi Richy , > steel over aluminum is just a matter of choice , > economics most of the time . >  > Gred , I think Origami can be dartless , I sure do > remember you tried to optain an agreement over the > definition in this Group .  > As a defender of free thinking and freedom of opinion, > I abstained wisely in that discusion. >  > I think the designs and boats GO5 and O40 from > http://www.guydesigngroup.fi/ >  > http://tinyurl.com/dy94q       for the GO5   and > http://tinyurl.com/bky3z       for the O40 > are direct Links for those members also member in the : > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/OrigamiPlyBoatDesign/ Group >  > Just have a look at both designs , I dont post them here > cause they are in GRP , not on the Topic in here , and > tell me if you consider them Origami designs. >  > I also think the OUT ISLAND MonoMaran , by > http://www.guydesigngroup.fi/  is a perfect example > that the Monomaran is worth looking into as an option > , even for small boats , but I found no interest in here. > I hope you remember my multiple posts . >  > A small Origami build Monomaran ??? > Just lett me know when interested :-) >  > Gerd , dont tell me you will exclude the wooden > Tornado cat hulls from the Origami List because > they have no darts . >  > Darts realy belong in the Pub , > Darts is fine for entertainement while drinking :-) >  > Ready to go to the Pub , anytime :-) >  > Old Ben  >  > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "richytill" <tillrc@h...>  wrote: > > > > If the principle of a multihull is to achive stability through  > > bouyancy rather than ballast--aluminum would seem to be a better  > > choice than steel if metal is the medium.  rt > >  >  --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Gerd" <yago@j...> wrote: > > > > > > Don't get me wrong, Ben, that IS an interesting link for sure ;- ) > > >  > > > I even have to admit that occasionally I dig out my calcs from  > time  > > > to time for the famous steel cat that is always in the air and  > > never  > > > gets built. And everytime I put them back knowing that it won't  > be  > > > built anytime soon either... ;-) > > >  > > > By the way, what makes you say it's origami? looks like a  > straight  > > > two-panel "V" without darts to me, no? > > >  > > > Gerd > > >  > > >  --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III" <ben_azo@h...>  > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi Tom , Hi Gerd , > > > > Afther sailing the Steel Origami Tri from Australia to  > > > > New Guinea and the Solomons in the late seventhies the > > > > builder designer is alive and well and still has fine > > > > memories of that boat he calls save and seaworthy today :-) > > > >  > > > > Why a steel frameless Origami Tri ?? > > > > little money , the availability of the materials and > > > > a srong desire to go sailing [ no internet to loose > > > > all that precious time tchatting instead of sailing > > > > in those days ] > > > >  > > > > Certain personalities become more easely scared with age, > > > > with others the contrary happens :-) > > > >  > > > > Gerd you know I am the Repository Man :-) > > > > some call me even Mister Options :-) > > > >  > > > > Boatdesign evolves every day , new designs , new boats... > > > > All I realy do is point out to what I find , > > > > the older boats and the new designs. > > > >  > > > > I loved posting Kyloe the new Origami Aluminum see Link > > > >  > > > > File : /aluOrigami2.jpg Uploaded by : ben_azo <ben_azo@> > > > > Description : Eric Autran's Kyloe , 2sheets 8mx2,5m for  > aluOrigami > > > >  > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats2/files/aluOrigami2.jpg > > > >  > > > > Gerd , I hope you noticed the similarity to Krsyz's Mnich > > > > design MiniSwail , I posted for Tom . > > > >  > > > >  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats2/files/miniswail.gif > > > >  > > > > Options , that's what it is all about. > > > > Why does one choose this instead or that other design ?? > > > >  > > > > I can't answer but sure love the diversity :-) > > > > Dont you both love to see that there are so many  > > > > Origami Steel and Aluminum Boat Designs presented in here ? > > > > Yago is one of them , I realy look forward to see that > > > > boat sailing and how she will perform. > > > >  > > > > Good Luck to you both , keep us posted . > > > >  > > > > Old Ben > > > >  > > > > ------------------------------------------ > > > > From: "tom" <tazmann@>  > > > > Date: Fri Dec 2, 2005  7:59 pm  > > > >    > > > > I agree with Gerd on this one and after looking at the  pictures > > > > I have to ask, why a steel Tri? > > > > Tom > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: "Gerd" <yago@> > > > > To: <origamiboats@yahoogroups.com> > > > > Sent: Friday, December 02, 2005 9:27 AM > > > >  > > > > Scary ... especially the beams ;-) > > > > -------------------------------------------  > > > >        > > > > From: "Puck III" <ben_azo@h...>  > > > > Date: Fri Dec 2, 2005  6:07 pm  > > > > Subject: --- Frameless Steel Origami Trimaran ---  ben_azo  > > > >  Offline  > > > >  Send Email   > > > >  > > > > From: origamiboats2@yahoogroups.com > > > > Date: Fri Dec 2, 2005 4:51 pm > > > > Subject: New file uploaded to origamiboats2 > > > > origamiboats2@yahoogroups.com > > > >  > > > > Hello, > > > >  > > > > This email message is a notification to let you know that > > > > a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the  origamiboats2 > > > > group. > > > >  > > > > File : /Dancer 002.jpg > > > > Uploaded by : ben_azo <ben_azo@> > > > > Description : Phill James 's Frameless Steel Origami Tri > > > >  > > > > You can access this file at the URL: > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats2/files/Dancer% > 20002.jpg > > > >  > > > > To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit: > > > > http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files > > > >  > > > > Regards, > > > >  > > > > ben_azo <ben_azo@> > > > >  > > > >  > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III"  <ben_azo@h...>  > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > From: origamiboats2@yahoogroups.com  > > > > > Date: Fri Dec 2, 2005  4:51 pm  > > > > > Subject: New file uploaded to origamiboats2   > > > > > origamiboats2@yahoogroups.com  > > > > >    > > > > > Hello, > > > > >  > > > > > This email message is a notification to let you know that > > > > > a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the  > origamiboats2 > > > > > group. > > > > >  > > > > > File : /Dancer 002.jpg > > > > > Uploaded by : ben_azo <ben_azo@> > > > > > Description : Phill James 's Frameless Steel Origami Tri > > > > >  > > > > > You can access this file at the URL: > > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats2/files/Dancer% > > > 20002.jpg > > > > >  > > > > > To learn more about file sharing for your group, please  visit: > > > > > http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files > > > > >  > > > > > Regards, > > > > >  > > > > > ben_azo <ben_azo@> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > |
9765|9641|2005-12-03 11:34:16|NORMAN MOORE|Re: Mold question (Webbing)|I'd suggest a refinement.  The rails that  support the wooden slats should have a groove routed to hold the slats  in place in case of a rollover.  Cut a small relief in the top at  the center large enough to insert one slat.  You can feed the  slats in and slide them down to the end. Space them so no slat is at  the center cutout. To access the gear stored below just lift the  cushion and slide the slats to one end.  In case of a rollover the  gear stored below the bunk will be held in place by the wooden slats  and webbing.  As long as the groove is a reasonably tight fit to  the slats they shouldn't shift too much as the boat pitches.      I tried unsuccesfully to attach a paper by Arvel Gentry to a previous  message.  It's a study of mast and mainsail aerodynamics.   One of the more interesting findings was that halyards halyards routed  in front of the mast act as vortex generators to improve the flow  around the mast.  I've loaded the paper to origamiboats2 files  section for anyone that may be interested.   http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats2/files/  seeratlas <seeratlas@...> wrote:          Don't think you're getting the picture Michael. Think more of a row of   battens under the mattress and some webbing between them to hold them   in place. The wood holds the weight, not the webbing. The webbing just   keeps them properly spaced, kind of like a very closely spaced rope   ladder. The other analogy is like that type of window blind that has   horizonal 'battens' tied together such that you can roll em up and down.      Works out really well on all fronts for a boat unless you roll :)   course then its better flying thru the air with some battens and a   mattress than a 4x8 LOL. (been there, got my 'wings' :)      seer       --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Michael Casling <casling@s...> wrote:   >   > The older chesterfields have webbing to support the part that is sat on.   > The webbing is spaced very close and the frame needs to be very   strong to support the tension of the webbing. Upholsterers use a   webbing puller. The webbing is pulled very tight. This is not   something that could be easily done on a boat.   >    > Michael   >   ----- Original Message -----    >   From: seeratlas    >   To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com    >   Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2005 9:34 AM   >   Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Mold question (Webbing)   >    >    >   First sorry bout the delay, been busy as heck and unable to get to the   >   group. :(   >    >   Ok, in general I don't recommend webbing without slats. you will do   >   some serious aching in the back dept. sooner or later. A hammock can   >   be made bearable but generally by putting lots of bedding in it to   >   smooth it out.   >    >   I'm talking about transverse wooden or other material slats with the   >   mattress on top. :)   >    >   seer   >    >   --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "edward_stoneuk" <tedstone@g...>   >   wrote:   >   >   >   > Seer,   >   > I thought about using woven webbing as a base for bunks as I   have some    >   > that came from the rigging of a hot air balloon.  The problem   that I    >   > foresee is tensioning it so that it doesn't sag like a hammock.    That    >   > can give one a bad back.  To keep tension one would need a strong    >   > frame and probably a means of adjusting individual webbing   straps.  Do    >   > you have any good ideas on that?   >   > Regards,   >   > Ted   >   >   >    >    >    >    >    >    >    >   To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com   >   To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:   origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com    >    >    >    >   ------------------------------------------------------------------------------   >   YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS    >    >     a..  Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web.   >          >     b..  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:   >      origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com   >          >     c..  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of   Service.    >    >    >   ------------------------------------------------------------------------------   >    >    >    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]   >                               To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com   To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com                                  ---------------------------------     YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS                 Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web.           To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:  origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com           Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.             ---------------------------------                     Norm Moore 559-645-5314  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
9766|9745|2005-12-03 12:27:38|Gerd|Re: ---   Frameless Steel Origami Trimaran   ---|>ONE MOTHER RAN. Oh well:-)   LOL ;-)|
9767|9735|2005-12-03 12:53:15|tom|Re: insulation|I have heard many diferent things about galvanizing under water, Ive ben  told when scratched the galvanizing comes off others say the paint comes off  the galvanizing, the manufacture says the zink around the scratch protects  the bare metal. Who knows I quess theres to many varables, I do beleave if  you should happen to scratch to the metal you will have problems no matter  what paint you use if you dont fix it. My Tempest sailboat has a 3/8" steel  plate keel and the paint was weather checked so i sanded it down to the  original galvanizing and everything looked new except where the lead was  atached so I repainted with epoxy,put it back together about 6 years ago and  it still looks like the day I did it and its over 35 years old. So I would  say galvanizing is not a bad thing and the boat did sit in the water for  over a year with just a couple coats of underwater epoxy on it. Tom  ----- Original Message -----  From: "seeratlas" <seeratlas@...> To: <origamiboats@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, December 02, 2005 7:52 PM Subject: [origamiboats] Re: insulation   > Ben, > I seemed to remember something about zinc below waterline as being a > 'bad idea' because all you have to do is bump one little metal bouy, > can, what have you- gouge the paint and now you have a battery which > will slough off your bottom paint. I seem to remember that Brent > posted something about having tried it and couldn't keep paint on the > rudder or keels or whatever it was that he had zinc on. > > seer > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III" <ben_azo@h...> wrote: >> >> Hi Tom , your idea is excellent ! >> Zinga is a first class proven product . >> You can spray it thin , exces product will not give more protection , >> as long as you apply the Zinga immediatly afther sanding , >> on a well cleaned dry surface . >> The protection start as soon as contact with air is finished . >> >> Before paint is applied on the in or outside , >> the only precaution to be taken is to protect the surface >> from all flying little metal parts , so do all metal grinding >> at a good distance from the hull and deck , or protect the >> surface against any tiny projections that would start >> rusting later from under the paint . >> >> The Nansulate can be sprayed to and again it is useless to >> apply to much . Again it is a proven product . >> >> BUT  The Nansulate is no sound insulator , soo you will have >> to count only on the sound insulation value of the wooden >> or other liner you think attaching over that. >> >> Making that easely detachable , as you say , is the best >> solution in case you need repairing , install conducts for >> wiring or anything behind that surface. >> >> Plywood with or without a formica finish , or any other >> water resistant paneling material seems the easyest >> solution , as long as it is thin enough to bend easely , >> cause your hull and deck was build up from a developable >> surface [ a major Origami advantage ] so you will be able >> to do a fast job , you sure still have the patterns that >> stay the same as for the hull minus a bit :-) >> >> How will you attach those panels ? Thats another Topic >> for later but you can think about it , cause it could be >> usefull to leave airspace between those panels and the >> hull and deck surface , the way the Dutch do . >> >> In case you decide to sail to Alaska or sell your boat >> to a guy that want to sail to Alaska , you can always >> apply a heatbarier later on , symply by attaching it >> to the backside of the panels , so your hull can >> allways be made free without any hasle . >> >> This is what I think , sure there are much different >> options worth considering to >> >> Old Ben >> >> --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "tazmannusa" <tazmann@i...> >> wrote: >> > >> > Hello All >> >   I have ben reading up on a product called Nansulate,its a >> transluent >> > insulation paint and its desighned for industrial applications up >> to >> > 400 degrees. What I have ben considering is going the Zinga cold >> > galvanizing on the whole boat inside and out and coating the inside >> > with Nansulate seems like it would be a lot easyer to maintain, you >> > could see through it and do any repairs without a problem VS foam >> > where you wouldnt know you have a problem. >> > Has anyone ever tryed somthing like this or any thoughts on the >> idea? >> >  Ohh ya its going on a BS26 mainly sailed on California coast not >> > Alaska "too cold for me up there" >> > Tom >> > >> > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:  > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > |
9768|9745|2005-12-03 13:13:54|Gerd|Re: ---   Frameless Steel Origami Trimaran   ---|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III" <ben_azo@h...> wrote:  > PS, I need to get a life  > ( I love that one Seer , and I aint drinking or smooking :-)   Well then, maybe you should ;-)|
9769|9745|2005-12-03 13:33:08|cirejay|Re: ---   Frameless Steel Origami Trimaran   ---|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III" <ben_azo@h...> wrote:  > > Hi Seer , Hi Gerd , about the definition of a Monomaran....... >  > Gerd , as far as I am concerned , Seer's definition is perfect , > it has at least the merrit to be funny .   > Old Ben >  > PS, I need to get a life  > ( I love that one Seer , and I aint drinking or smooking :-)   Old Ben, The name is eric, not Seer, not even Serious:-)  eric S/V Nebaras        -------------------------------------------------------  > From: "cirejay" <cirejay@> > Date: Sat Dec 3, 2005  3:23 pm  > Subject: Re: --- Frameless Steel Origami Trimaran ---  cirejay  >    > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Gerd" <yago@j...> wrote: > > > > But what the heck is then the definition of a monomaran??? >  > Well, the answer is simply. All you need do is break the word down   to  > figure it out so here goes: Mono - this is easy - one; Ma - this is > short for Mother (guess one has to be American to easily figure   this  > one out); and last but not least Ran - yep, Ran is ran. So we end   up  > with ONE MOTHER RAN. Oh well:-) >  > eric S/V Nebaras >  > PS, I need to get a life |
9770|9745|2005-12-03 17:10:24|Juan José Yaboada|Re: ---   Frameless Steel Origami Trimaran   ---|Hi Ben:       I think Gerd is right. "Darts" are needed in an origami boat (by definition).       It seems that you didn't realize that even the GO5 boat is obtained with a single flat sheet having a huge "dart" to form the bow as shown in the second picture in   http://www.guydesigngroup.fi/ (the one that shows a hand holding the sheet of paper to form the hull)       Regards,   Juan José  Puck III <ben_azo@...> escribió:   Hi Gerd , Hi Richy , steel over aluminum is just a matter of choice , economics most of the time .  Gred , I think Origami can be dartless , I sure do remember you tried to optain an agreement over the definition in this Group .  As a defender of free thinking and freedom of opinion, I abstained wisely in that discusion.  I think the designs and boats GO5 and O40 from http://www.guydesigngroup.fi/  http://tinyurl.com/dy94q       for the GO5   and http://tinyurl.com/bky3z       for the O40 are direct Links for those members also member in the : http://groups.yahoo.com/group/OrigamiPlyBoatDesign/ Group  Just have a look at both designs , I dont post them here cause they are in GRP , not on the Topic in here , and tell me if you consider them Origami designs.  I also think the OUT ISLAND MonoMaran , by http://www.guydesigngroup.fi/  is a perfect example that the Monomaran is worth looking into as an option , even for small boats , but I found no interest in here. I hope you remember my multiple posts .  A small Origami build Monomaran ??? Just lett me know when interested :-)  Gerd , dont tell me you will exclude the wooden Tornado cat hulls from the Origami List because they have no darts .  Darts realy belong in the Pub , Darts is fine for entertainement while drinking :-)  Ready to go to the Pub , anytime :-)  Old Ben    --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "richytill" <tillrc@h...> wrote: > > If the principle of a multihull is to achive stability through  > bouyancy rather than ballast--aluminum would seem to be a better  > choice than steel if metal is the medium.  rt >  --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Gerd" <yago@j...> wrote: > > > > Don't get me wrong, Ben, that IS an interesting link for sure ;-) > >  > > I even have to admit that occasionally I dig out my calcs from  time  > > to time for the famous steel cat that is always in the air and  > never  > > gets built. And everytime I put them back knowing that it won't  be  > > built anytime soon either... ;-) > >  > > By the way, what makes you say it's origami? looks like a  straight  > > two-panel "V" without darts to me, no? > >  > > Gerd > >  > >  --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III" <ben_azo@h...>  > > wrote: > > > > > > Hi Tom , Hi Gerd , > > > Afther sailing the Steel Origami Tri from Australia to  > > > New Guinea and the Solomons in the late seventhies the > > > builder designer is alive and well and still has fine > > > memories of that boat he calls save and seaworthy today :-) > > >  > > > Why a steel frameless Origami Tri ?? > > > little money , the availability of the materials and > > > a srong desire to go sailing [ no internet to loose > > > all that precious time tchatting instead of sailing > > > in those days ] > > >  > > > Certain personalities become more easely scared with age, > > > with others the contrary happens :-) > > >  > > > Gerd you know I am the Repository Man :-) > > > some call me even Mister Options :-) > > >  > > > Boatdesign evolves every day , new designs , new boats... > > > All I realy do is point out to what I find , > > > the older boats and the new designs. > > >  > > > I loved posting Kyloe the new Origami Aluminum see Link > > >  > > > File : /aluOrigami2.jpg Uploaded by : ben_azo <ben_azo@> > > > Description : Eric Autran's Kyloe , 2sheets 8mx2,5m for  aluOrigami > > >  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats2/files/aluOrigami2.jpg > > >  > > > Gerd , I hope you noticed the similarity to Krsyz's Mnich > > > design MiniSwail , I posted for Tom . > > >  > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats2/files/miniswail.gif > > >  > > > Options , that's what it is all about. > > > Why does one choose this instead or that other design ?? > > >  > > > I can't answer but sure love the diversity :-) > > > Dont you both love to see that there are so many  > > > Origami Steel and Aluminum Boat Designs presented in here ? > > > Yago is one of them , I realy look forward to see that > > > boat sailing and how she will perform. > > >  > > > Good Luck to you both , keep us posted . > > >  > > > Old Ben > > >  > > > ------------------------------------------ > > > From: "tom" <tazmann@>  > > > Date: Fri Dec 2, 2005  7:59 pm  > > >    > > > I agree with Gerd on this one and after looking at the pictures > > > I have to ask, why a steel Tri? > > > Tom > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Gerd" <yago@> > > > To: <origamiboats@yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Friday, December 02, 2005 9:27 AM > > >  > > > Scary ... especially the beams ;-) > > > -------------------------------------------  > > >        > > > From: "Puck III" <ben_azo@h...>  > > > Date: Fri Dec 2, 2005  6:07 pm  > > > Subject: --- Frameless Steel Origami Trimaran ---  ben_azo  > > >  Offline  > > >  Send Email   > > >  > > > From: origamiboats2@yahoogroups.com > > > Date: Fri Dec 2, 2005 4:51 pm > > > Subject: New file uploaded to origamiboats2 > > > origamiboats2@yahoogroups.com > > >  > > > Hello, > > >  > > > This email message is a notification to let you know that > > > a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the origamiboats2 > > > group. > > >  > > > File : /Dancer 002.jpg > > > Uploaded by : ben_azo <ben_azo@> > > > Description : Phill James 's Frameless Steel Origami Tri > > >  > > > You can access this file at the URL: > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats2/files/Dancer% 20002.jpg > > >  > > > To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit: > > > http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files > > >  > > > Regards, > > >  > > > ben_azo <ben_azo@> > > >  > > >  > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III" <ben_azo@h...>  > > wrote: > > > > > > > > From: origamiboats2@yahoogroups.com  > > > > Date: Fri Dec 2, 2005  4:51 pm  > > > > Subject: New file uploaded to origamiboats2   > > > > origamiboats2@yahoogroups.com  > > > >    > > > > Hello, > > > >  > > > > This email message is a notification to let you know that > > > > a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the  origamiboats2 > > > > group. > > > >  > > > > File : /Dancer 002.jpg > > > > Uploaded by : ben_azo <ben_azo@> > > > > Description : Phill James 's Frameless Steel Origami Tri > > > >  > > > > You can access this file at the URL: > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats2/files/Dancer% > > 20002.jpg > > > >  > > > > To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit: > > > > http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files > > > >  > > > > Regards, > > > >  > > > > ben_azo <ben_azo@> > > > > > > > > > >        To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com       SPONSORED LINKS          Living aboard   British columbia canada   Vancouver island     Yacht   Victoria bc       ---------------------------------   YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS            Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web.          To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:  origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com          Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.        ---------------------------------          __________________________________________________ Correo Yahoo! Espacio para todos tus mensajes, antivirus y antispam ¡gratis!  Regístrate ya - http://correo.espanol.yahoo.com/   [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
9771|9771|2005-12-03 17:26:38|tom|steel mast|Hello All  All the talk on steel mast and putting foam in the has me thinking. From what ive seen everyone building steel mast use pipe or a tubeing to start with and looking threw my steel supplyers books the sections are very heavy 4" sch40 pipe is 10.79 pounds a foot , 3" .120 wall tube is 3.69 pounds a foot. The 3" tube I dont think would be strong enough even on the BS26. Anyway several years ago I was going to build a larger steel sailboat and I was buying books or anything on the subject to learn how to do it and one of the books that I cant find now had a engineer on the east coast of the US building steel mast and selling plans for them, So I called him and he explained how to build it. From what he explained the mast is built out of sheet metal and bent in a brake in short sections and then welded together and when finished its about the same weight and size of the aluminum spar at about 20% the cost.   This might be worth considering and what Im thinking is instead of bolting sail track to the back side is why not split 1/2" stainless pipe and flush mount it to use for sail slides since you have to weld up a seam anyway. Might get a little tricky keeping it all straight but Im sure it could be done.  Has anyone tryed this or seen it done or any thoughts on the idea?  I have a 4ft brake here at the house I quess I will have to experiment a little to see what kind of shape I can bend Tom  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]|
9772|9641|2005-12-03 17:58:21|gyles llewellyn|Re: Mold question (Webbing)|Ikea sell curved laminated birch slatted bed bases held together by end  caps they sell them for 25 euros they look as though they would be  quick to customise and comfy, was looking at them today in Toulouse and  thought of you,  Gyles|
9773|9771|2005-12-03 18:59:51|tazmannusa|steel mast|I posted a rough drawing of mast section in origamiboats2  photos Toms  BS26|
9774|9774|2005-12-04 00:39:51|Puck III|Dartless Origami|From: origamiboats2@yahoogroups.com  Date: Sun Dec 4, 2005  6:34 am  Subject: New file uploaded to origamiboats2   origamiboats2@yahoogroups.com   Send Email     Hello,  This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the origamiboats2 group.  File : /DartlessOrigami1.jpg Uploaded by : ben_azo <ben_azo@...> Description : Dartless Swail + MiniSwail by Krsyz + GO4 foldingpic  You can access this file at the URL: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats2/files/DartlessOrigami1.jpg  To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit: http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files  Regards,  ben_azo <ben_azo@...>|
9775|9775|2005-12-04 00:43:18|Puck III|DartLess Origami|From: origamiboats2@yahoogroups.com  Date: Sun Dec 4, 2005  6:30 am  Subject: New file uploaded to origamiboats2   origamiboats2@yahoogroups.com   Send Email     Hello,  This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the origamiboats2 group.  File : /dartless1.jpg Uploaded by : ben_azo <ben_azo@...> Description : DartLess Origami - Swail - MiniSwail by Krsyz -  AluOrigami  You can access this file at the URL: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats2/files/dartless1.jpg  To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit: http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files  Regards,  ben_azo <ben_azo@...>|
9776|9745|2005-12-04 01:44:28|Puck III|Re: ---   Frameless Steel Origami Trimaran   ---|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Juan José Yaboada  <zingaraiii@y...> wrote:  > > Hi Ben: >     >   I think Gerd is right. "Darts" are needed in an origami boat (by   definition).  >     >   It seems that you didn't realize that even the GO5 boat is   obtained with a single flat sheet having a huge "dart" to form the  bow as shown in the second picture in   >   http://www.guydesigngroup.fi/ (the one that shows a hand holding   the sheet of paper to form the hull)   >   Regards, >   Juan José    Hi Juan Jose , sorry I think Gerd is dead wrong and that you were misguided , dont worry about that , it happens ofthen .  You are correct that material was cut out of the sheet  used to build GO5 , that doesn't mean you can't build a Dartless Origami Fold :-)   Especialy for you and for other guys that could be mislead I posted the 2 previous files.  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats2/files/dartless1.jpg http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats2/files/DartlessOrigami1.jpg   So you can judge for yourself by looking carefully at the pics. Swail and Kylie end up with that special bow [ they go for the longest waterline out of one or 2 sheets ]  Anybody can do the test at home with a sheet of paper as shown in the pic , just do try it and see :-)  Anybody with a bit of training in design , knows that you can easely make a different more classic bowdesign .  How ?? by designing [ and easely building ] the boat with sort of a small chinese bow taking care the lines join part of a cone used as bow.......to build a rounded bow , deciding yourself , or leaving that job to a reputable naval architect , if you like a vertical or forward facing bow instead of a reversed one.  Look at Tom's photoalbum , see how he build the transom , imagine for a while he builds a little transom at the bow.  Or even simpler , he could instal a prefabricated bowpiece easyer to fold than the keels . So we end up with a rounded bow , with a prebuild watertight frontpiece .     The only thing I realise is that how easy it is to be mislead , I sure will not argue over definitions leaving that to specialised definition definers :-)  Just wondering if you will remain the only fan for Gerd's Origami definition ??  Tell me what you think , once you folded a simple piece of paper [ you could even try with a piece of thin metal or plastic ] to trye it yourself . You may even build the rounded bow in seconds .  What's positive about definitions ?? I can't care less :-)  Regards  Old Ben    >  > Puck III <ben_azo@h...> escribió: >   Hi Gerd , Hi Richy , > steel over aluminum is just a matter of choice , > economics most of the time . >  > Gred , I think Origami can be dartless , I sure do > remember you tried to optain an agreement over the > definition in this Group .  > As a defender of free thinking and freedom of opinion, > I abstained wisely in that discusion. >  > I think the designs and boats GO5 and O40 from > http://www.guydesigngroup.fi/ >  > http://tinyurl.com/dy94q       for the GO5   and > http://tinyurl.com/bky3z       for the O40 > are direct Links for those members also member in the : > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/OrigamiPlyBoatDesign/ Group >  > Just have a look at both designs , I dont post them here > cause they are in GRP , not on the Topic in here , and > tell me if you consider them Origami designs. >  > I also think the OUT ISLAND MonoMaran , by > http://www.guydesigngroup.fi/  is a perfect example > that the Monomaran is worth looking into as an option > , even for small boats , but I found no interest in here. > I hope you remember my multiple posts . >  > A small Origami build Monomaran ??? > Just lett me know when interested :-) >  > Gerd , dont tell me you will exclude the wooden > Tornado cat hulls from the Origami List because > they have no darts . >  > Darts realy belong in the Pub , > Darts is fine for entertainement while drinking :-) >  > Ready to go to the Pub , anytime :-) >  > Old Ben  >  > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "richytill" <tillrc@h...>   wrote:  > > > > If the principle of a multihull is to achive stability through  > > bouyancy rather than ballast--aluminum would seem to be a better  > > choice than steel if metal is the medium.  rt > >  > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Gerd" <yago@j...> wrote: > > > > > > Don't get me wrong, Ben, that IS an interesting link for sure ;-  )  > > >  > > > I even have to admit that occasionally I dig out my calcs from  > time  > > > to time for the famous steel cat that is always in the air and  > > never  > > > gets built. And everytime I put them back knowing that it won't  > be  > > > built anytime soon either... ;-) > > >  > > > By the way, what makes you say it's origami? looks like a  > straight  > > > two-panel "V" without darts to me, no? > > >  > > > Gerd > > >  > > >  --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III" <ben_azo@h...>  > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi Tom , Hi Gerd , > > > > Afther sailing the Steel Origami Tri from Australia to  > > > > New Guinea and the Solomons in the late seventhies the > > > > builder designer is alive and well and still has fine > > > > memories of that boat he calls save and seaworthy today :-) > > > >  > > > > Why a steel frameless Origami Tri ?? > > > > little money , the availability of the materials and > > > > a srong desire to go sailing [ no internet to loose > > > > all that precious time tchatting instead of sailing > > > > in those days ] > > > >  > > > > Certain personalities become more easely scared with age, > > > > with others the contrary happens :-) > > > >  > > > > Gerd you know I am the Repository Man :-) > > > > some call me even Mister Options :-) > > > >  > > > > Boatdesign evolves every day , new designs , new boats... > > > > All I realy do is point out to what I find , > > > > the older boats and the new designs. > > > >  > > > > I loved posting Kyloe the new Origami Aluminum see Link > > > >  > > > > File : /aluOrigami2.jpg Uploaded by : ben_azo <ben_azo@> > > > > Description : Eric Autran's Kyloe , 2sheets 8mx2,5m for  > aluOrigami > > > >  > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats2/files/aluOrigami2.jpg > > > >  > > > > Gerd , I hope you noticed the similarity to Krsyz's Mnich > > > > design MiniSwail , I posted for Tom . > > > >  > > > >   http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats2/files/miniswail.gif  > > > >  > > > > Options , that's what it is all about. > > > > Why does one choose this instead or that other design ?? > > > >  > > > > I can't answer but sure love the diversity :-) > > > > Dont you both love to see that there are so many  > > > > Origami Steel and Aluminum Boat Designs presented in here ? > > > > Yago is one of them , I realy look forward to see that > > > > boat sailing and how she will perform. > > > >  > > > > Good Luck to you both , keep us posted . > > > >  > > > > Old Ben > > > >  > > > > ------------------------------------------ > > > > From: "tom" <tazmann@>  > > > > Date: Fri Dec 2, 2005  7:59 pm  > > > >    > > > > I agree with Gerd on this one and after looking at the   pictures  > > > > I have to ask, why a steel Tri? > > > > Tom > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: "Gerd" <yago@> > > > > To: <origamiboats@yahoogroups.com> > > > > Sent: Friday, December 02, 2005 9:27 AM > > > >  > > > > Scary ... especially the beams ;-) > > > > -------------------------------------------  > > > >        > > > > From: "Puck III" <ben_azo@h...>  > > > > Date: Fri Dec 2, 2005  6:07 pm  > > > > Subject: --- Frameless Steel Origami Trimaran ---  ben_azo  > > > >  Offline  > > > >  Send Email   > > > >  > > > > From: origamiboats2@yahoogroups.com > > > > Date: Fri Dec 2, 2005 4:51 pm > > > > Subject: New file uploaded to origamiboats2 > > > > origamiboats2@yahoogroups.com > > > >  > > > > Hello, > > > >  > > > > This email message is a notification to let you know that > > > > a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the   origamiboats2  > > > > group. > > > >  > > > > File : /Dancer 002.jpg > > > > Uploaded by : ben_azo <ben_azo@> > > > > Description : Phill James 's Frameless Steel Origami Tri > > > >  > > > > You can access this file at the URL: > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats2/files/Dancer% > 20002.jpg > > > >  > > > > To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit: > > > > http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files > > > >  > > > > Regards, > > > >  > > > > ben_azo <ben_azo@> > > > >  > > > >  > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III"   <ben_azo@h...>   > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > From: origamiboats2@yahoogroups.com  > > > > > Date: Fri Dec 2, 2005  4:51 pm  > > > > > Subject: New file uploaded to origamiboats2   > > > > > origamiboats2@yahoogroups.com  > > > > >    > > > > > Hello, > > > > >  > > > > > This email message is a notification to let you know that > > > > > a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the  > origamiboats2 > > > > > group. > > > > >  > > > > > File : /Dancer 002.jpg > > > > > Uploaded by : ben_azo <ben_azo@> > > > > > Description : Phill James 's Frameless Steel Origami Tri > > > > >  > > > > > You can access this file at the URL: > > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats2/files/Dancer% > > > 20002.jpg > > > > >  > > > > > To learn more about file sharing for your group, please   visit:  > > > > > http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files > > > > >  > > > > > Regards, > > > > >  > > > > > ben_azo <ben_azo@> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >  >  >  >  >  >  >  > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-  unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com   >  >  >  >   SPONSORED LINKS  >         Living aboard   British columbia canada   Vancouver   island     Yacht   Victoria bc   >      > --------------------------------- >   YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS  >  >      >     Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web. >      >     To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >  origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com >      >     Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of   Service.   >  >      > --------------------------------- >    >  >    >  >  > __________________________________________________ > Correo Yahoo! > Espacio para todos tus mensajes, antivirus y antispam ¡gratis!  > Regístrate ya - http://correo.espanol.yahoo.com/  >  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > |
9777|9745|2005-12-04 06:59:49|Juan José Yaboada|Re: ---   Frameless Steel Origami Trimaran   ---|Hi Ben:   What I ment was that both of you (Gerd and yourself) are right, in fact both definitions of origami are the same as you can see with the following thinking:       What is a dart:      To me, it's a cut to retrieve material so joining both edges of the dart a 3D surface is obtained. This cut can be any shape but both edges must match when folded. It can be an acute angle, a right angle or an obtuse angle. Of course the sides of the dart could be straight, curved or whatever shape you like.       Now supose we start with an A4 sheet of paper. We draw a centerline perpendicular to the short side, then  we cut off a straight 60 degrees dart (30 degrees each side of the centerline) and finally we stitch both edges of the dart: We obtained a 3D form (a kind of excentered conic hollow)       Now we repeat the same procedure but let's make a 90 degree dart (45 degrees each side of the centerline). We obtain a deeper excentered conic hollow.       Finally, supose we cut a 180 degrees dart (parallel to the sheet edge): we obtain an even deeper form.       All the examples you show in the last uploded picture (were done with a 180  degrees dart to form the bow).   When you use a 180 degrees dart you obtain a tumblehome bow. In fact the smallest the angle of the dart the bigger the bow rake obtained.       As you can see, not only the side chines are created with darts:  the bow, the stern, the cabin top or a heavy cambered deck can ve done with darts.       Personally I don't like chines at all (just a matter of taste) so in my ideal origami boat is more like Swail or GO5.        Regards,       Juan José Puck III <ben_azo@...> escribió:     --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Juan José Yaboada  <zingaraiii@y...> wrote:  > > Hi Ben: >     >   I think Gerd is right. "Darts" are needed in an origami boat (by   definition).  >     >   It seems that you didn't realize that even the GO5 boat is   obtained with a single flat sheet having a huge "dart" to form the  bow as shown in the second picture in   >   http://www.guydesigngroup.fi/ (the one that shows a hand holding   the sheet of paper to form the hull)   >   Regards, >   Juan José    Hi Juan Jose , sorry I think Gerd is dead wrong and that you were misguided , dont worry about that , it happens ofthen .  You are correct that material was cut out of the sheet  used to build GO5 , that doesn't mean you can't build a Dartless Origami Fold :-)   Especialy for you and for other guys that could be mislead I posted the 2 previous files.  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats2/files/dartless1.jpg http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats2/files/DartlessOrigami1.jpg   So you can judge for yourself by looking carefully at the pics. Swail and Kylie end up with that special bow [ they go for the longest waterline out of one or 2 sheets ]  Anybody can do the test at home with a sheet of paper as shown in the pic , just do try it and see :-)  Anybody with a bit of training in design , knows that you can easely make a different more classic bowdesign .  How ?? by designing [ and easely building ] the boat with sort of a small chinese bow taking care the lines join part of a cone used as bow.......to build a rounded bow , deciding yourself , or leaving that job to a reputable naval architect , if you like a vertical or forward facing bow instead of a reversed one.  Look at Tom's photoalbum , see how he build the transom , imagine for a while he builds a little transom at the bow.  Or even simpler , he could instal a prefabricated bowpiece easyer to fold than the keels . So we end up with a rounded bow , with a prebuild watertight frontpiece .     The only thing I realise is that how easy it is to be mislead , I sure will not argue over definitions leaving that to specialised definition definers :-)  Just wondering if you will remain the only fan for Gerd's Origami definition ??  Tell me what you think , once you folded a simple piece of paper [ you could even try with a piece of thin metal or plastic ] to trye it yourself . You may even build the rounded bow in seconds .  What's positive about definitions ?? I can't care less :-)  Regards  Old Ben    >  > Puck III <ben_azo@h...> escribió: >   Hi Gerd , Hi Richy , > steel over aluminum is just a matter of choice , > economics most of the time . >  > Gred , I think Origami can be dartless , I sure do > remember you tried to optain an agreement over the > definition in this Group .  > As a defender of free thinking and freedom of opinion, > I abstained wisely in that discusion. >  > I think the designs and boats GO5 and O40 from > http://www.guydesigngroup.fi/ >  > http://tinyurl.com/dy94q       for the GO5   and > http://tinyurl.com/bky3z       for the O40 > are direct Links for those members also member in the : > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/OrigamiPlyBoatDesign/ Group >  > Just have a look at both designs , I dont post them here > cause they are in GRP , not on the Topic in here , and > tell me if you consider them Origami designs. >  > I also think the OUT ISLAND MonoMaran , by > http://www.guydesigngroup.fi/  is a perfect example > that the Monomaran is worth looking into as an option > , even for small boats , but I found no interest in here. > I hope you remember my multiple posts . >  > A small Origami build Monomaran ??? > Just lett me know when interested :-) >  > Gerd , dont tell me you will exclude the wooden > Tornado cat hulls from the Origami List because > they have no darts . >  > Darts realy belong in the Pub , > Darts is fine for entertainement while drinking :-) >  > Ready to go to the Pub , anytime :-) >  > Old Ben  >  > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "richytill" <tillrc@h...>   wrote:  > > > > If the principle of a multihull is to achive stability through  > > bouyancy rather than ballast--aluminum would seem to be a better  > > choice than steel if metal is the medium.  rt > >  > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Gerd" <yago@j...> wrote: > > > > > > Don't get me wrong, Ben, that IS an interesting link for sure ;-  )  > > >  > > > I even have to admit that occasionally I dig out my calcs from  > time  > > > to time for the famous steel cat that is always in the air and  > > never  > > > gets built. And everytime I put them back knowing that it won't  > be  > > > built anytime soon either... ;-) > > >  > > > By the way, what makes you say it's origami? looks like a  > straight  > > > two-panel "V" without darts to me, no? > > >  > > > Gerd > > >  > > >  --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III" <ben_azo@h...>  > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi Tom , Hi Gerd , > > > > Afther sailing the Steel Origami Tri from Australia to  > > > > New Guinea and the Solomons in the late seventhies the > > > > builder designer is alive and well and still has fine > > > > memories of that boat he calls save and seaworthy today :-) > > > >  > > > > Why a steel frameless Origami Tri ?? > > > > little money , the availability of the materials and > > > > a srong desire to go sailing [ no internet to loose > > > > all that precious time tchatting instead of sailing > > > > in those days ] > > > >  > > > > Certain personalities become more easely scared with age, > > > > with others the contrary happens :-) > > > >  > > > > Gerd you know I am the Repository Man :-) > > > > some call me even Mister Options :-) > > > >  > > > > Boatdesign evolves every day , new designs , new boats... > > > > All I realy do is point out to what I find , > > > > the older boats and the new designs. > > > >  > > > > I loved posting Kyloe the new Origami Aluminum see Link > > > >  > > > > File : /aluOrigami2.jpg Uploaded by : ben_azo <ben_azo@> > > > > Description : Eric Autran's Kyloe , 2sheets 8mx2,5m for  > aluOrigami > > > >  > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats2/files/aluOrigami2.jpg > > > >  > > > > Gerd , I hope you noticed the similarity to Krsyz's Mnich > > > > design MiniSwail , I posted for Tom . > > > >  > > > >   http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats2/files/miniswail.gif  > > > >  > > > > Options , that's what it is all about. > > > > Why does one choose this instead or that other design ?? > > > >  > > > > I can't answer but sure love the diversity :-) > > > > Dont you both love to see that there are so many  > > > > Origami Steel and Aluminum Boat Designs presented in here ? > > > > Yago is one of them , I realy look forward to see that > > > > boat sailing and how she will perform. > > > >  > > > > Good Luck to you both , keep us posted . > > > >  > > > > Old Ben > > > >  > > > > ------------------------------------------ > > > > From: "tom" <tazmann@>  > > > > Date: Fri Dec 2, 2005  7:59 pm  > > > >    > > > > I agree with Gerd on this one and after looking at the   pictures  > > > > I have to ask, why a steel Tri? > > > > Tom > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: "Gerd" <yago@> > > > > To: <origamiboats@yahoogroups.com> > > > > Sent: Friday, December 02, 2005 9:27 AM > > > >  > > > > Scary ... especially the beams ;-) > > > > -------------------------------------------  > > > >        > > > > From: "Puck III" <ben_azo@h...>  > > > > Date: Fri Dec 2, 2005  6:07 pm  > > > > Subject: --- Frameless Steel Origami Trimaran ---  ben_azo  > > > >  Offline  > > > >  Send Email   > > > >  > > > > From: origamiboats2@yahoogroups.com > > > > Date: Fri Dec 2, 2005 4:51 pm > > > > Subject: New file uploaded to origamiboats2 > > > > origamiboats2@yahoogroups.com > > > >  > > > > Hello, > > > >  > > > > This email message is a notification to let you know that > > > > a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the   origamiboats2  > > > > group. > > > >  > > > > File : /Dancer 002.jpg > > > > Uploaded by : ben_azo <ben_azo@> > > > > Description : Phill James 's Frameless Steel Origami Tri > > > >  > > > > You can access this file at the URL: > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats2/files/Dancer% > 20002.jpg > > > >  > > > > To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit: > > > > http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files > > > >  > > > > Regards, > > > >  > > > > ben_azo <ben_azo@> > > > >  > > > >  > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III"   <ben_azo@h...>   > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > From: origamiboats2@yahoogroups.com  > > > > > Date: Fri Dec 2, 2005  4:51 pm  > > > > > Subject: New file uploaded to origamiboats2   > > > > > origamiboats2@yahoogroups.com  > > > > >    > > > > > Hello, > > > > >  > > > > > This email message is a notification to let you know that > > > > > a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the  > origamiboats2 > > > > > group. > > > > >  > > > > > File : /Dancer 002.jpg > > > > > Uploaded by : ben_azo <ben_azo@> > > > > > Description : Phill James 's Frameless Steel Origami Tri > > > > >  > > > > > You can access this file at the URL: > > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats2/files/Dancer% > > > 20002.jpg > > > > >  > > > > > To learn more about file sharing for your group, please   visit:  > > > > > http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files > > > > >  > > > > > Regards, > > > > >  > > > > > ben_azo <ben_azo@> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >  >  >  >  >  >  >  > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-  unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com   >  >  >  >   SPONSORED LINKS  >         Living aboard   British columbia canada   Vancouver   island     Yacht   Victoria bc   >      > --------------------------------- >   YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS  >  >      >     Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web. >      >     To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >  origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com >      >     Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of   Service.   >  >      > --------------------------------- >    >  >    >  >  > __________________________________________________ > Correo Yahoo! > Espacio para todos tus mensajes, antivirus y antispam ¡gratis!  > Regístrate ya - http://correo.espanol.yahoo.com/  >  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >        To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com       SPONSORED LINKS          Living aboard   British columbia canada   Vancouver island     Yacht   Victoria bc       ---------------------------------   YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS            Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web.          To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:  origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com          Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.        ---------------------------------          __________________________________________________ Correo Yahoo! Espacio para todos tus mensajes, antivirus y antispam ¡gratis!  Regístrate ya - http://correo.espanol.yahoo.com/   [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]|
9778|9745|2005-12-04 18:43:17|Denis Buggy|Re: ---   Frameless Steel Origami Trimaran   ---|----- Original Message -----    From: Gerd    To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com    Sent: Friday, December 02, 2005 10:24 PM   Subject: [origamiboats] Re: --- Frameless Steel Origami Trimaran ---     Don't get me wrong, Ben, that IS an interesting link for sure ;-)    I even have to admit that occasionally I dig out my calcs from time    to time for the famous steel cat that is always in the air and never    gets built. And everytime I put them back knowing that it won't be    built anytime soon either... ;-)    By the way, what makes you say it's origami? looks like a straight    two-panel "V" without darts to me, no?    Gerd    dear gerd i would be glad of any thoughts good or bad on cats if not appropiate for this group please e mail me  denis  ------------------------------------------------------------------------------   YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS       a..  Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web.            b..  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:      origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com            c..  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
9779|9779|2005-12-05 02:36:17|Gary|Composting head|http://www.ssca.org/sscabb/index.php?action=vthread&forum=10&topic=543  The above has some positive feedback on the AirHead.com toilet.   Problem is the expense for this product. Anyone come up with something  workable?  I hear there is a Mexican product that could at least  provide a good mold as a base to duplicate the air head product that  seems to work.  I will dig around for this Mexican composting head as  I understand it is under $300 but does not have a pee separator.  Gary|
9780|9745|2005-12-05 04:21:41|Gerd|Re: ---   Frameless Steel Origami Trimaran   ---|>   dear gerd i would be glad of any thoughts good or bad on cats if   not appropiate for this group please e mail me  denis  Denis, I really never got it to come out right. First you need to go  quite big, lets say 13 meters and up to come anywhere near the  displacement of even a heavy cruising cat. Next you would need to  scantle light, meaning dense structure and thin skin - now that will  loook like shit after welding because already there is very little  bending in the flat long side-panels, and also wave pressure will  mark it over time.. You would also want to change material for  structual beams, maybe bolting alloy tubes inside the bridgedecks?  Finally you would need to look for lighter superstructures, alloy or  west-plywood or what ever - so in the end I guess it's too much  hassle for a result that still is far from optimal.   Sure, you can just go and build the tank-type all steel heavy cat,  but that's not the type of project I would want to be involved in,  nor a boat I would like to own. This comes up ever so often, but to my knowledge nobody has produced  a nice solution to this day. Does not mean I am not going to try  again one day ;-?  Gerd  The Yago Project at http://www.justmueller.com/boats|
9781|9745|2005-12-05 07:15:53|Denis Buggy|Re: ---   Frameless Steel Origami Trimaran   ---|----- Original Message -----    From: Gerd    To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com    Sent: Monday, December 05, 2005 9:21 AM   Subject: [origamiboats] Re: --- Frameless Steel Origami Trimaran ---      >       Sure, you can just go and build the tank-type all steel heavy cat.not a boat i would like to own.    dear gerd i feel like somebody who has never driven a car and expects to learn via e mail, however i would be greatful for your  critical thougths on a heavy panzer of a bolted cat as i  have resigned myself that i will be over a hundred years of age by the time i accuire enough knowlege to build a light structure which can handel the stresses required.  regards   denis     ------------------------------------------------------------------------------   YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS     ------------------------------------------------------------------------------     [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
9782|9782|2005-12-05 18:23:34|mickeyolaf|Boat Paint|I was talking last night to a guy who sandblasts and then repaints  fishboats. He uses Endura to paint the hulls because he said you can't  repair Awlgrip and you have to respray the whole boat if the Awlgrip  is damaged. Something I didn't know. Thought I would pass it on.|
9783|9782|2005-12-05 19:56:50|kingsknight4life|Re: Boat Paint|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "mickeyolaf" <mickeyolaf@y...>  wrote:  > > I was talking last night to a guy who sandblasts and then repaints  > fishboats. He uses Endura to paint the hulls because he said you   can't   > repair Awlgrip and you have to respray the whole boat if the Awlgrip  > is damaged. Something I didn't know. Thought I would pass it on. >  Mickey I know lots of the commercial guys use Endura, it' suppossd to be  tough as nails. The problem is how do you touch it up if it has been  chipped? I heard the same thing about Endura that you heard about  Awlgrip, that it's hard or impossible to touch up. You have a tough  time with Endura, to rough up the edges around the area being repaired  because it is SO hard. Can anyone else shed some light on the subject? Rowland|
9784|9745|2005-12-05 22:02:05|seeratlas|Re: ---   Frameless Steel Origami Trimaran   ---|hehehe Ben, that was Eric. My problem is the opposite. I'm usually accused of having far too many lives LOL :)  Seer    --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III" <ben_azo@h...> wrote: > > Hi Seer , Hi Gerd , about the definition of a Monomaran....... >  > Gerd , as far as I am concerned , Seer's definition is perfect , > it has at least the merrit to be funny . >  > I realy think my opinion about definitions > is totaly irrelevant:-) >  > I can't let you drag me down to your level > of experience in definitions , cause you > will beat me with your experience........ >  > Just thinking : who the hell cares about definitions ?? >  > Those who care , will sure lett us know :-) >  > Old Ben >  > PS, I need to get a life  > ( I love that one Seer , and I aint drinking or smooking :-) >  >  > ------------------------------------------------------- > From: "cirejay" <cirejay@> > Date: Sat Dec 3, 2005  3:23 pm  > Subject: Re: --- Frameless Steel Origami Trimaran ---  cirejay  >    > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Gerd" <yago@j...> wrote: > > > > But what the heck is then the definition of a monomaran??? >  > Well, the answer is simply. All you need do is break the word down to > figure it out so here goes: Mono - this is easy - one; Ma - this is > short for Mother (guess one has to be American to easily figure this > one out); and last but not least Ran - yep, Ran is ran. So we end up > with ONE MOTHER RAN. Oh well:-) >  > eric S/V Nebaras >  > PS, I need to get a life  >  > ----------------------------------------------- > From: "Gerd" <yago@>  > Date: Sat Dec 3, 2005  1:39 pm  > Subject: Re: --- Frameless Steel Origami Trimaran ---  yago_project    >  > Well, Ben, we sure don't seem to have the same ideas about > definitions ;-) >  > For me origami means forcibly darts, otherwise it's any sort of hull > built from developable panels, but let's not start that again ;-) >  > But what the heck is then the definition of a monomaran??? >  > Gerd  >  > -------------------------------------------------- > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III" <ben_azo@h...> wrote: > > > > Hi Gerd , Hi Richy , > > steel over aluminum is just a matter of choice , > > economics most of the time . > >  > > Gred , I think Origami can be dartless , I sure do > > remember you tried to optain an agreement over the > > definition in this Group .  > > As a defender of free thinking and freedom of opinion, > > I abstained wisely in that discusion. > >  > > I think the designs and boats GO5 and O40 from > > http://www.guydesigngroup.fi/ > >  > > http://tinyurl.com/dy94q       for the GO5   and > > http://tinyurl.com/bky3z       for the O40 > > are direct Links for those members also member in the : > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/OrigamiPlyBoatDesign/ Group > >  > > Just have a look at both designs , I dont post them here > > cause they are in GRP , not on the Topic in here , and > > tell me if you consider them Origami designs. > >  > > I also think the OUT ISLAND MonoMaran , by > > http://www.guydesigngroup.fi/  is a perfect example > > that the Monomaran is worth looking into as an option > > , even for small boats , but I found no interest in here. > > I hope you remember my multiple posts . > >  > > A small Origami build Monomaran ??? > > Just lett me know when interested :-) > >  > > Gerd , dont tell me you will exclude the wooden > > Tornado cat hulls from the Origami List because > > they have no darts . > >  > > Darts realy belong in the Pub , > > Darts is fine for entertainement while drinking :-) > >  > > Ready to go to the Pub , anytime :-) > >  > > Old Ben  > >  > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "richytill" <tillrc@h...>  > wrote: > > > > > > If the principle of a multihull is to achive stability through  > > > bouyancy rather than ballast--aluminum would seem to be a better  > > > choice than steel if metal is the medium.  rt > > >  > >  --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Gerd" <yago@j...> wrote: > > > > > > > > Don't get me wrong, Ben, that IS an interesting link for sure ;- > ) > > > >  > > > > I even have to admit that occasionally I dig out my calcs from  > > time  > > > > to time for the famous steel cat that is always in the air and  > > > never  > > > > gets built. And everytime I put them back knowing that it won't  > > be  > > > > built anytime soon either... ;-) > > > >  > > > > By the way, what makes you say it's origami? looks like a  > > straight  > > > > two-panel "V" without darts to me, no? > > > >  > > > > Gerd > > > >  > > > >  --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III" <ben_azo@h...>  > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Hi Tom , Hi Gerd , > > > > > Afther sailing the Steel Origami Tri from Australia to  > > > > > New Guinea and the Solomons in the late seventhies the > > > > > builder designer is alive and well and still has fine > > > > > memories of that boat he calls save and seaworthy today :-) > > > > >  > > > > > Why a steel frameless Origami Tri ?? > > > > > little money , the availability of the materials and > > > > > a srong desire to go sailing [ no internet to loose > > > > > all that precious time tchatting instead of sailing > > > > > in those days ] > > > > >  > > > > > Certain personalities become more easely scared with age, > > > > > with others the contrary happens :-) > > > > >  > > > > > Gerd you know I am the Repository Man :-) > > > > > some call me even Mister Options :-) > > > > >  > > > > > Boatdesign evolves every day , new designs , new boats... > > > > > All I realy do is point out to what I find , > > > > > the older boats and the new designs. > > > > >  > > > > > I loved posting Kyloe the new Origami Aluminum see Link > > > > >  > > > > > File : /aluOrigami2.jpg Uploaded by : ben_azo <ben_azo@> > > > > > Description : Eric Autran's Kyloe , 2sheets 8mx2,5m for  > > aluOrigami > > > > >  > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats2/files/aluOrigami2.jpg > > > > >  > > > > > Gerd , I hope you noticed the similarity to Krsyz's Mnich > > > > > design MiniSwail , I posted for Tom . > > > > >  > > > > >  > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats2/files/miniswail.gif > > > > >  > > > > > Options , that's what it is all about. > > > > > Why does one choose this instead or that other design ?? > > > > >  > > > > > I can't answer but sure love the diversity :-) > > > > > Dont you both love to see that there are so many  > > > > > Origami Steel and Aluminum Boat Designs presented in here ? > > > > > Yago is one of them , I realy look forward to see that > > > > > boat sailing and how she will perform. > > > > >  > > > > > Good Luck to you both , keep us posted . > > > > >  > > > > > Old Ben > > > > >  > > > > > ------------------------------------------ > > > > > From: "tom" <tazmann@>  > > > > > Date: Fri Dec 2, 2005  7:59 pm  > > > > >    > > > > > I agree with Gerd on this one and after looking at the  > pictures > > > > > I have to ask, why a steel Tri? > > > > > Tom > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: "Gerd" <yago@> > > > > > To: <origamiboats@yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Sent: Friday, December 02, 2005 9:27 AM > > > > >  > > > > > Scary ... especially the beams ;-) > > > > > -------------------------------------------  > > > > >        > > > > > From: "Puck III" <ben_azo@h...>  > > > > > Date: Fri Dec 2, 2005  6:07 pm  > > > > > Subject: --- Frameless Steel Origami Trimaran ---  ben_azo  > > > > >  Offline  > > > > >  Send Email   > > > > >  > > > > > From: origamiboats2@yahoogroups.com > > > > > Date: Fri Dec 2, 2005 4:51 pm > > > > > Subject: New file uploaded to origamiboats2 > > > > > origamiboats2@yahoogroups.com > > > > >  > > > > > Hello, > > > > >  > > > > > This email message is a notification to let you know that > > > > > a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the  > origamiboats2 > > > > > group. > > > > >  > > > > > File : /Dancer 002.jpg > > > > > Uploaded by : ben_azo <ben_azo@> > > > > > Description : Phill James 's Frameless Steel Origami Tri > > > > >  > > > > > You can access this file at the URL: > > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats2/files/Dancer% > > 20002.jpg > > > > >  > > > > > To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit: > > > > > http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files > > > > >  > > > > > Regards, > > > > >  > > > > > ben_azo <ben_azo@> > > > > >  > > > > >  > > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III"  > <ben_azo@h...>  > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > From: origamiboats2@yahoogroups.com  > > > > > > Date: Fri Dec 2, 2005  4:51 pm  > > > > > > Subject: New file uploaded to origamiboats2   > > > > > > origamiboats2@yahoogroups.com  > > > > > >    > > > > > > Hello, > > > > > >  > > > > > > This email message is a notification to let you know that > > > > > > a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the  > > origamiboats2 > > > > > > group. > > > > > >  > > > > > > File : /Dancer 002.jpg > > > > > > Uploaded by : ben_azo <ben_azo@> > > > > > > Description : Phill James 's Frameless Steel Origami Tri > > > > > >  > > > > > > You can access this file at the URL: > > > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats2/files/Dancer% > > > > 20002.jpg > > > > > >  > > > > > > To learn more about file sharing for your group, please  > visit: > > > > > > http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files > > > > > >  > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > >  > > > > > > ben_azo <ben_azo@> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > |
9785|9782|2005-12-06 00:59:10|NORMAN MOORE|Re: Boat Paint|Check out Sigma coatings  I came upon this yacht website of a corten steel Van der Stadt ketch.  The owner endorsed their products and gave the combination he used on his boat.  http://www.seakin.com/gilana/sy_for_sale/sy_for_sale.htm    Sigma products are used by many industrial and shipping companies.  Some are designed to be recoated on a clean surface painted surface to reduce maintenance costs.  I personally have no experience with them, just found it in my web surfing and thought it sounded interesting.  --- kingsknight4life <wildcatbjj@...> wrote:   --------------------------------- --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "mickeyolaf" <mickeyolaf@y...>  wrote:  > > I was talking last night to a guy who sandblasts and  then repaints   > fishboats. He uses Endura to paint the hulls because  he said you  can't   > repair Awlgrip and you have to respray the whole  boat if the Awlgrip   > is damaged. Something I didn't know. Thought I would  pass it on.  >  Mickey I know lots of the commercial guys use Endura, it' suppossd to be  tough as nails. The problem is how do you touch it up if it has been  chipped? I heard the same thing about Endura that you heard about  Awlgrip, that it's hard or impossible to touch up. You have a tough  time with Endura, to rough up the edges around the area being repaired  because it is SO hard. Can anyone else shed some light on the subject? Rowland       To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com                SPONSORED LINKS                                                   Living aboard                                    British columbia canada                                    Vancouver island                                                                Yacht                                    Victoria bc                                             ---------------------------------   YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS         Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web.         To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:  origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com         Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.     ---------------------------------     Norm Moore 559-645-5314|
9786|9782|2005-12-06 15:17:12|Dick Pilz|Re: Boat Paint|Before waxing too lyrical about CorTen steels and the like, please keep in mind the corrosion resistance holds true for "exposed to atamosphere" conditions. Once immersed, they are only as good as, and sometimes worse than, mild steel.  Their prime virtue is a higher tensile and yield point - the other side of which means harder to bend, form and cut. I would only consider these alloys where low weight is a consideration and the guage is reduced to match the increase in strength. The fatgue resistance will go down, though, since thinner sections flex more, irregardless of tensile strength.  CorTen might be a better cadidate for a mast than for a hull.  I haven't done much in the way of boats, but I did design, spec, tool and build steel compressed air tanks to go on heavy duty trucks for twenty years. Those things get condensation on the inside and salty spray and gravel abrasion on the outside. I've run dozens of salt spray tests with different coating systems, scratched and unscratched.  Good surface prep and good coatings beat alloys every time, again except where overall weight is a factor. (A pound saved on a truck is worth about 125 USD over a 15 year life.)  The money saved by sticking to mild steel can buy a lot of paint.  Fair Hulls and Fair Sailing Dick   --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, NORMAN MOORE <normmoore@s...> wrote: > > Check out Sigma coatings  I came upon this yacht > website of a corten steel Van der Stadt ketch.  The > owner endorsed their products and gave the combination > he used on his boat. >  > http://www.seakin.com/gilana/sy_for_sale/sy_for_sale.htm >   >  > Sigma products are used by many industrial and > shipping companies.  Some are designed to be recoated > on a clean surface painted surface to reduce > maintenance costs.  I personally have no experience > with them, just found it in my web surfing and thought > it sounded interesting. >  > --- kingsknight4life <wildcatbjj@h...> wrote: >  >  > --------------------------------- > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "mickeyolaf" > <mickeyolaf@y...>  > wrote: > > > > I was talking last night to a guy who sandblasts and > then repaints  > > fishboats. He uses Endura to paint the hulls because > he said you  > can't  > > repair Awlgrip and you have to respray the whole > boat if the Awlgrip  > > is damaged. Something I didn't know. Thought I would > pass it on. > > > Mickey > I know lots of the commercial guys use Endura, it' > suppossd to be  > tough as nails. The problem is how do you touch it up > if it has been  > chipped? I heard the same thing about Endura that you > heard about  > Awlgrip, that it's hard or impossible to touch up. You > have a tough  > time with Endura, to rough up the edges around the > area being repaired  > because it is SO hard. Can anyone else shed some light > on the subject? > Rowland >  >  >  >  >  >  > To Post a message, send it to:   > origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com >  >        >  >       SPONSORED LINKS   >                                                 Living > aboard                                    British > columbia canada                                    > Vancouver island                                       >                          Yacht                         >            Victoria bc                                 >        >      > --------------------------------- >   YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS >  >    >     Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web. >     >     To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >  origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com >     >     Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! > Terms of Service. >  >    > --------------------------------- >  >  >  >  > Norm Moore > 559-645-5314 > |
9787|9787|2005-12-06 16:11:16|Ray|Interesting steel project boat on eBay|Not mine - no affiliation:   Auction# 4595651085|
9788|9787|2005-12-06 18:00:05|cirejay|Re: Interesting steel project boat on eBay|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Ray" <raykimbro@y...> wrote:  >  > "Interesting steel project boat on eBay"   Interesting is what my ex, a child psychologist, called fat or ugly  babies. Her theory being that she need not offend with the truth. I  guess her theory applies to more than just babies:-)  eric S/V Nebaras|
9789|9782|2005-12-06 18:44:21|SHANE ROTHWELL|Boat Paint|Used to get Sigma antifouling paint in HK. the commercial stuff they refuse to sell to john Q public as it's too effective. Shure, needed a mate who was a ships agent to order it through but damn that stuff worked well! Can only assume their other products are good tho   	  	 		 __________________________________________________________  Find your next car at http://autos.yahoo.ca|
9790|9782|2005-12-06 19:25:43|tom|Re: Boat Paint|Last time I checked they quit manufacturing Cor Ten steel ,is it still  available?  ----- Original Message -----  From: "Dick Pilz" <dickpilz@...> To: <origamiboats@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2005 12:14 PM Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Boat Paint   > Before waxing too lyrical about CorTen steels and the like, please > keep in mind the corrosion resistance holds true for "exposed to > atamosphere" conditions. Once immersed, they are only as good as, and > sometimes worse than, mild steel. > > Their prime virtue is a higher tensile and yield point - the other > side of which means harder to bend, form and cut. I would only > consider these alloys where low weight is a consideration and the > guage is reduced to match the increase in strength. The fatgue > resistance will go down, though, since thinner sections flex more, > irregardless of tensile strength. > > CorTen might be a better cadidate for a mast than for a hull. > > I haven't done much in the way of boats, but I did design, spec, tool > and build steel compressed air tanks to go on heavy duty trucks for > twenty years. Those things get condensation on the inside and salty > spray and gravel abrasion on the outside. I've run dozens of salt > spray tests with different coating systems, scratched and unscratched. > > Good surface prep and good coatings beat alloys every time, again > except where overall weight is a factor. (A pound saved on a truck is > worth about 125 USD over a 15 year life.) > > The money saved by sticking to mild steel can buy a lot of paint. > > Fair Hulls and Fair Sailing > Dick > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, NORMAN MOORE <normmoore@s...> wrote: >> >> Check out Sigma coatings  I came upon this yacht >> website of a corten steel Van der Stadt ketch.  The >> owner endorsed their products and gave the combination >> he used on his boat. >> >> http://www.seakin.com/gilana/sy_for_sale/sy_for_sale.htm >> >> >> Sigma products are used by many industrial and >> shipping companies.  Some are designed to be recoated >> on a clean surface painted surface to reduce >> maintenance costs.  I personally have no experience >> with them, just found it in my web surfing and thought >> it sounded interesting. >> >> --- kingsknight4life <wildcatbjj@h...> wrote: >> >> >> --------------------------------- >> --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "mickeyolaf" >> <mickeyolaf@y...> >> wrote: >> > >> > I was talking last night to a guy who sandblasts and >> then repaints >> > fishboats. He uses Endura to paint the hulls because >> he said you >> can't >> > repair Awlgrip and you have to respray the whole >> boat if the Awlgrip >> > is damaged. Something I didn't know. Thought I would >> pass it on. >> > >> Mickey >> I know lots of the commercial guys use Endura, it' >> suppossd to be >> tough as nails. The problem is how do you touch it up >> if it has been >> chipped? I heard the same thing about Endura that you >> heard about >> Awlgrip, that it's hard or impossible to touch up. You >> have a tough >> time with Endura, to rough up the edges around the >> area being repaired >> because it is SO hard. Can anyone else shed some light >> on the subject? >> Rowland >> >> >> >> >> >> >> To Post a message, send it to: >> origamiboats@yahoogroups.com >> To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: >> origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com >> >> >> >>       SPONSORED LINKS >>                                                 Living >> aboard                                    British >> columbia canada >> Vancouver island >>                          Yacht >>            Victoria bc >> >> >> --------------------------------- >>   YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS >> >> >>     Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web. >> >>     To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >>  origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com >> >>     Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! >> Terms of Service. >> >> >> --------------------------------- >> >> >> >> >> Norm Moore >> 559-645-5314 >> > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:  > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > |
9791|9791|2005-12-06 22:48:40|cwa99utah|36' Swain that is for sale|I'm interest in the Swain that is on the main page of this site. I've already sent an email requesting info on this particular boat. Does anyone have any background info on the 36' Swain design? I am looking for a steel pilothouse sailboat in the Pacific Northwest. 35 to 40 foot.  Thanks, CWA|
9792|9791|2005-12-07 01:54:49|kingsknight4life|Re: 36' Swain that is for sale|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "cwa99utah" <cwa@v...> wrote:  > > I'm interest in the Swain that is on the main page of this site. > I've already sent an email requesting info on this particular boat. > Does anyone have any background info on the 36' Swain design? > I am looking for a steel pilothouse sailboat in the Pacific   Northwest.  > 35 to 40 foot. >  > Thanks, > CWA >  Be patient. I'm sure there are a lot of people on here who can  answer your questions. Of course Brent posts here quite regularily  and he is an invaluable source of knowledge about these boats and  their construction. I myself am in the process of bulding a 36'  Swain bilge keeler, as is Alex the groups' moderator. If you have  any specific questions I will do my best to answer them.   I'll let Gary answer your questons about his boat but I have been  aboard and know the builders. I can tell you that it is  very well  built boat. I doubt you'd be disappointed with its purchase. Rowland|
9793|9787|2005-12-07 04:30:23|edward_stoneuk|Re: Interesting steel project boat on eBay|Eric, Our old Doctor, when a proud mother presented her new baby, used to  say, "Now, THAT'S what I call a baby".  And everybody was happy. Regards, Ted     --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "cirejay" <cirejay@h...> wrote: > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Ray" <raykimbro@y...> wrote: > >  > > "Interesting steel project boat on eBay" >  > Interesting is what my ex, a child psychologist, called fat or  ugly  > babies. Her theory being that she need not offend with the truth.  I  > guess her theory applies to more than just babies:-) >  > eric S/V Nebaras > |
9794|9782|2005-12-07 05:30:54|Gerald Niffenegger|Re: Boat Paint|Talked to a guy the other day that built a new boat, shotblasted, zinc  flame sprayed and painted. He used international primer and  international epoxy on top of the primer. He told me that the paint  dropped off in sheets. Some places the size of a newspaper. The primer,  international Alumex in this neck of the woods, is a one part primer.  He stated that the zinc was sanded before priming. That is the one part  I didn't understand because my zinc is the texture of 220 grit  sandpaper, and I sure don't plan to sand it. I am thinking along the  lines of an epoxy primer but am not sure? I am open to suggestions. Gerald|
9795|9782|2005-12-07 07:40:15|edward_stoneuk|Re: Boat Paint|Gerald,  This advice below is from:  http://www.duluxtrade.co.uk/webapp/wcs/stores/DTBUK/Specifiers/Paint_ Solutions/Jsp/Paint_Solutions.jsp? id=634&contentPage=./substrate/sprayed_metal_coating.htm&currentPage= plb&root=N.   " Sprayed-Metal Coatings  Steel surfaces can be sprayed with zinc or aluminium or with a  mixture of both in various proportions. The environmental conditions  to which the coating will be subjected will determine the choice of  spraying material. In marine and coastal areas aluminium is normally  preferred.  Before spraying blast clean the surface with grit abrasive to the  highest standard - BS 7079 Part 1 1989 SA3. The selected metal is  sprayed through a special gun which melts and atomises the metal.  As a result of this process a coarse porous profile can be produced.  If high-performance coatings are sprayed on to this surface the  result will be pinholes and blow holes caused by entrapped air and  solvent vapour.  Metal-sprayed surfaces must first be sealed with a thinly sprayed  non-saponifiable sealer prior to the application of the recommended  system primer.   Modified Etching Primer  Can be used to seal the surface and provide a good key for priming.  It also protects the metal-sprayed surface from the atmosphere  preventing 'salt' formation prior to the application of the  specified coating system. "  I hope this makes some sense to you.  I have no experience of flame  sprayed steel although I know that freshly galvanised steel will not  take paint well unless a mordant solution is used to etch it.  It  would seem from the above that the case with flame sprayed steel is  different in that it is so rough that it can trap stuff under the  paint that will cause it to lose adhesion.  Regards, Ted|
9796|9787|2005-12-07 08:47:23|Ray|Re: Interesting steel project boat on eBay|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "cirejay" <cirejay@h...> wrote:  > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Ray" <raykimbro@y...> wrote: > >  > > "Interesting steel project boat on eBay" >  > Interesting is what my ex, a child psychologist, called fat or ugly  > babies. Her theory being that she need not offend with the truth. I  > guess her theory applies to more than just babies:-) >  > eric S/V Nebaras >   I like that - mind if I use it?|
9797|9782|2005-12-07 10:51:21|mickeyolaf|Re: Boat Paint|I am really impressed with Progressive Plastics "Steele Coat" two part  epoxy. I have used it three times now with success. It goes on easy,  builds high, recoats the same day. I put it on the last time at 45F  and it was cured the next day and recoatable. I painted an aluminum  mast with it in the spring and left outside it looked like new. It is not really a finish coat because epoxy oxidizes over the years  and goes chalky but it is an excellent base coat that really sticks. I  am going to use 2 coats of primer and 2 finish coats of "Steele Coat"  on my entire boat before spraying with "Endura". The last time I painted with SC I was outside and the fumes were still  strong. I don't want to start growing a third eye or something so I am  going to invest in a good "fumes" respirator for next time. I also  don't want to get sensitised to it. They told me at Progressive that with their product you prime,paint,  then fair with epoxy fairing compounds, prime over the faired areas,  sand all to lightly rough up (take the shine off) and then spray or  roll your finish paint which in my case will be Endura. Steele Coat would probably be good to paint inside the hull before  foaming so as to prevent rust under the foam. If you go to the Metal Boat Society's web site there is a designer  there named Michael Kasten who seems to be quite a guru when it comes  to metal boats. He recommends in his articles on protecting metal  boats that the only way to preserve and protect metal in salt water is  with multiple coats of epoxy both inside and out.   -- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Gerald Niffenegger"  <niffeneggerniff@a...> wrote:  > > Talked to a guy the other day that built a new boat, shotblasted,   zinc   > flame sprayed and painted. He used international primer and  > international epoxy on top of the primer. He told me that the paint  > dropped off in sheets. Some places the size of a newspaper. The   primer,   > international Alumex in this neck of the woods, is a one part   primer.   > He stated that the zinc was sanded before priming. That is the one   part   > I didn't understand because my zinc is the texture of 220 grit  > sandpaper, and I sure don't plan to sand it. I am thinking along the  > lines of an epoxy primer but am not sure? I am open to suggestions. > Gerald > |
9798|9782|2005-12-07 11:25:19|john kupris|Re: Boat Paint|Hi Gerald, could this be a paint failure due to the zinc not being washed with acid to remove zinc salts. Brent Swain talks about using vinegar to wash the Zinc.   John.  Gerald Niffenegger <niffeneggerniff@...> wrote:   Talked to a guy the other day that built a new boat, shotblasted, zinc  flame sprayed and painted. He used international primer and  international epoxy on top of the primer. He told me that the paint  dropped off in sheets. Some places the size of a newspaper. The primer,  international Alumex in this neck of the woods, is a one part primer.  He stated that the zinc was sanded before priming. That is the one part  I didn't understand because my zinc is the texture of 220 grit  sandpaper, and I sure don't plan to sand it. I am thinking along the  lines of an epoxy primer but am not sure? I am open to suggestions. Gerald      To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com         ---------------------------------   YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS            Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web.          To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:  origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com          Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.        ---------------------------------           [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]|
9799|9782|2005-12-07 11:36:45|NORMAN MOORE|Re: Boat Paint|I wasn't waxing about corten.  The boat is an example of a paint system on steel.  The kind of steel was and is immaterial. I was replying to and talking about paint not steel.  Might want to try reading and understanding a message before replying and taking a stand on an issue that is completely unrelated.  --- Dick Pilz <dickpilz@...> wrote:   --------------------------------- Before waxing too lyrical about CorTen steels and the like, please keep in mind the corrosion resistance holds true for "exposed to atamosphere" conditions. Once immersed, they are only as good as, and sometimes worse than, mild steel.  Their prime virtue is a higher tensile and yield point - the other side of which means harder to bend, form and cut. I would only consider these alloys where low weight is a consideration and the guage is reduced to match the increase in strength. The fatgue resistance will go down, though, since thinner sections flex more, irregardless of tensile strength.  CorTen might be a better cadidate for a mast than for a hull.  I haven't done much in the way of boats, but I did design, spec, tool and build steel compressed air tanks to go on heavy duty trucks for twenty years. Those things get condensation on the inside and salty spray and gravel abrasion on the outside. I've run dozens of salt spray tests with different coating systems, scratched and unscratched.  Good surface prep and good coatings beat alloys every time, again except where overall weight is a factor. (A pound saved on a truck is worth about 125 USD over a 15 year life.)  The money saved by sticking to mild steel can buy a lot of paint.  Fair Hulls and Fair Sailing Dick  --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, NORMAN MOORE <normmoore@s...> wrote:  > > Check out Sigma coatings  I came upon this yacht > website of a corten steel Van der Stadt ketch.  The > owner endorsed their products and gave the  combination  > he used on his boat. >  >  http://www.seakin.com/gilana/sy_for_sale/sy_for_sale.htm  >   >  > Sigma products are used by many industrial and > shipping companies.  Some are designed to be  recoated  > on a clean surface painted surface to reduce > maintenance costs.  I personally have no experience > with them, just found it in my web surfing and  thought  > it sounded interesting. >  > --- kingsknight4life <wildcatbjj@h...> wrote: >  >  > --------------------------------- > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "mickeyolaf" > <mickeyolaf@y...>  > wrote: > > > > I was talking last night to a guy who sandblasts  and  > then repaints  > > fishboats. He uses Endura to paint the hulls  because  > he said you  > can't  > > repair Awlgrip and you have to respray the whole > boat if the Awlgrip  > > is damaged. Something I didn't know. Thought I  would  > pass it on. > > > Mickey > I know lots of the commercial guys use Endura, it' > suppossd to be  > tough as nails. The problem is how do you touch it  up  > if it has been  > chipped? I heard the same thing about Endura that  you  > heard about  > Awlgrip, that it's hard or impossible to touch up.  You  > have a tough  > time with Endura, to rough up the edges around the > area being repaired  > because it is SO hard. Can anyone else shed some  light  > on the subject? > Rowland >  >  >  >  >  >  > To Post a message, send it to:   > origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com >  >        >  >       SPONSORED LINKS   >                                                  Living  > aboard                                    British > columbia canada                                    > Vancouver island                                       >                          Yacht                         >            Victoria bc                                 >        >      > --------------------------------- >   YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS >  >    >     Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web. >     >     To unsubscribe from this group, send an email  to:  >  origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com >     >     Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the  Yahoo!  > Terms of Service. >  >    > --------------------------------- >  >  >  >  > Norm Moore > 559-645-5314 >       To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com          ---------------------------------   YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS         Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web.         To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:  origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com         Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.     ---------------------------------     Norm Moore 559-645-5314|
9800|9782|2005-12-07 12:10:14|NORMAN MOORE|Re: Boat Paint|Where do you buy Steele Coat?  My web searches didn't turn up anything useful except that a paint contractor had heard of it being used on utility poles.  --- mickeyolaf <mickeyolaf@...> wrote:   --------------------------------- I am really impressed with Progressive Plastics "Steele Coat" two part  epoxy. I have used it three times now with success. It goes on easy,  builds high, recoats the same day. I put it on the last time at 45F  and it was cured the next day and recoatable. I painted an aluminum  mast with it in the spring and left outside it looked like new. It is not really a finish coat because epoxy oxidizes over the years  and goes chalky but it is an excellent base coat that really sticks. I  am going to use 2 coats of primer and 2 finish coats of "Steele Coat"  on my entire boat before spraying with "Endura". The last time I painted with SC I was outside and the fumes were still  strong. I don't want to start growing a third eye or something so I am  going to invest in a good "fumes" respirator for next time. I also  don't want to get sensitised to it. They told me at Progressive that with their product you prime,paint,  then fair with epoxy fairing compounds, prime over the faired areas,  sand all to lightly rough up (take the shine off) and then spray or  roll your finish paint which in my case will be Endura. Steele Coat would probably be good to paint inside the hull before  foaming so as to prevent rust under the foam. If you go to the Metal Boat Society's web site there is a designer  there named Michael Kasten who seems to be quite a guru when it comes  to metal boats. He recommends in his articles on protecting metal  boats that the only way to preserve and protect metal in salt water is  with multiple coats of epoxy both inside and out.   -- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Gerald Niffenegger"  <niffeneggerniff@a...> wrote:  > > Talked to a guy the other day that built a new boat,  shotblasted,  zinc   > flame sprayed and painted. He used international  primer and   > international epoxy on top of the primer. He told me  that the paint   > dropped off in sheets. Some places the size of a  newspaper. The  primer,   > international Alumex in this neck of the woods, is a  one part  primer.   > He stated that the zinc was sanded before priming.  That is the one  part   > I didn't understand because my zinc is the texture  of 220 grit   > sandpaper, and I sure don't plan to sand it. I am  thinking along the   > lines of an epoxy primer but am not sure? I am open  to suggestions.  > Gerald >        To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com                SPONSORED LINKS                                                   Living aboard                                    British columbia canada                                    Vancouver island                                                                Yacht                                    Victoria bc                                             ---------------------------------   YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS         Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web.         To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:  origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com         Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.     ---------------------------------     Norm Moore 559-645-5314|
9801|9782|2005-12-07 12:55:17|mickeyolaf|Re: Boat Paint|Progressive is at 815 Tupper, Coquitlam, BC. The company name is  Progressive Services. Phone 604-525-1685. I have also seen the paint  sold on Vancouver Island in Courtenay but I can't remember the name  of the shop.       -- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, NORMAN MOORE <normmoore@s...>  wrote:  > > Where do you buy Steele Coat?  My web searches didn't > turn up anything useful except that a paint contractor > had heard of it being used on utility poles. >  > --- mickeyolaf <mickeyolaf@y...> wrote: >  >  > --------------------------------- > I am really impressed with Progressive Plastics > "Steele Coat" two part  > epoxy. I have used it three times now with success. It > goes on easy,  > builds high, recoats the same day. I put it on the > last time at 45F  > and it was cured the next day and recoatable. I > painted an aluminum  > mast with it in the spring and left outside it looked > like new. > It is not really a finish coat because epoxy oxidizes > over the years  > and goes chalky but it is an excellent base coat that > really sticks. I  > am going to use 2 coats of primer and 2 finish coats > of "Steele Coat"  > on my entire boat before spraying with "Endura". > The last time I painted with SC I was outside and the > fumes were still  > strong. I don't want to start growing a third eye or > something so I am  > going to invest in a good "fumes" respirator for next > time. I also  > don't want to get sensitised to it. > They told me at Progressive that with their product > you prime,paint,  > then fair with epoxy fairing compounds, prime over the > faired areas,  > sand all to lightly rough up (take the shine off) and > then spray or  > roll your finish paint which in my case will be > Endura. > Steele Coat would probably be good to paint inside the > hull before  > foaming so as to prevent rust under the foam. > If you go to the Metal Boat Society's web site there > is a designer  > there named Michael Kasten who seems to be quite a > guru when it comes  > to metal boats. He recommends in his articles on > protecting metal  > boats that the only way to preserve and protect metal > in salt water is  > with multiple coats of epoxy both inside and out. >  >  > -- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Gerald > Niffenegger"  > <niffeneggerniff@a...> wrote: > > > > Talked to a guy the other day that built a new boat, > shotblasted,  > zinc  > > flame sprayed and painted. He used international > primer and  > > international epoxy on top of the primer. He told me > that the paint  > > dropped off in sheets. Some places the size of a > newspaper. The  > primer,  > > international Alumex in this neck of the woods, is a > one part  > primer.  > > He stated that the zinc was sanded before priming. > That is the one  > part  > > I didn't understand because my zinc is the texture > of 220 grit  > > sandpaper, and I sure don't plan to sand it. I am > thinking along the  > > lines of an epoxy primer but am not sure? I am open > to suggestions. > > Gerald > > >  >  >  >  >  >  > To Post a message, send it to:   > origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com >  >        >  >       SPONSORED LINKS   >                                                 Living > aboard                                    British > columbia canada                                    > Vancouver island                                       >                          Yacht                         >            Victoria bc                                 >        >      > --------------------------------- >   YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS >  >    >     Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web. >     >     To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >  origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com >     >     Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! > Terms of Service. >  >    > --------------------------------- >  >  >  >  > Norm Moore > 559-645-5314 > |
9802|9782|2005-12-07 15:57:20|Dick Pilz|Re: Boat Paint|Heh!. You were the one to bring up CorTen "I came upon this yacht website of a corten steel Van der Stadt ketch"  Regardless, if you had really read my reply, the conclusion was that good prep and good application will usually beat the "Wonderlloy of the Week".  I have seen too many posts in this forum where some people get a little obsessive about lining up the perfect alloy, the perfect welding methods, the perfect coating systems, the perfect rig, the perfect engine, etc.  I realize that most of us are acting as our own contractors, but there comes a time when we should hang up the spec-and-purchase hat and put on the building hat. Good alloys, good methods, good prices. "Not perfect, but Tuesday." Get out from behind a desk and into the water.  A good material available locally is better to me that the best 6 months/6,000 miles away. Ease of touch up and repair in out-of the way locations can be important, too, when choosing material and systems.  Although, if someone were to gift me with a couple truckloads of impervium and unobtanium, I wouldn't turn them down.  Fair hulls and fair sailing  Dick   --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, NORMAN MOORE <normmoore@s...> wrote: > > I wasn't waxing about corten.  The boat is an example > of a paint system on steel.  The kind of steel was and > is immaterial. I was replying to and talking about > paint not steel.  Might want to try reading and > understanding a message before replying and taking a > stand on an issue that is completely unrelated. >  > --- Dick Pilz <dickpilz@g...> wrote: >  >  > --------------------------------- > Before waxing too lyrical about CorTen steels and the > like, please > keep in mind the corrosion resistance holds true for > "exposed to > atamosphere" conditions. Once immersed, they are only > as good as, and > sometimes worse than, mild steel. >  > Their prime virtue is a higher tensile and yield point > - the other > side of which means harder to bend, form and cut. I > would only > consider these alloys where low weight is a > consideration and the > guage is reduced to match the increase in strength. > The fatgue > resistance will go down, though, since thinner > sections flex more, > irregardless of tensile strength. >  > CorTen might be a better cadidate for a mast than for > a hull. >  > I haven't done much in the way of boats, but I did > design, spec, tool > and build steel compressed air tanks to go on heavy > duty trucks for > twenty years. Those things get condensation on the > inside and salty > spray and gravel abrasion on the outside. I've run > dozens of salt > spray tests with different coating systems, scratched > and unscratched. >  > Good surface prep and good coatings beat alloys every > time, again > except where overall weight is a factor. (A pound > saved on a truck is > worth about 125 USD over a 15 year life.) >  > The money saved by sticking to mild steel can buy a > lot of paint. >  > Fair Hulls and Fair Sailing > Dick >  > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, NORMAN MOORE > <normmoore@s...> wrote: > > > > Check out Sigma coatings  I came upon this yacht > > website of a corten steel Van der Stadt ketch.  The > > owner endorsed their products and gave the > combination > > he used on his boat. > >  > > > http://www.seakin.com/gilana/sy_for_sale/sy_for_sale.htm > >   > >  > > Sigma products are used by many industrial and > > shipping companies.  Some are designed to be > recoated > > on a clean surface painted surface to reduce > > maintenance costs.  I personally have no experience > > with them, just found it in my web surfing and > thought > > it sounded interesting. > >  > > --- kingsknight4life <wildcatbjj@h...> wrote: > >  > >  > > --------------------------------- > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "mickeyolaf" > > <mickeyolaf@y...>  > > wrote: > > > > > > I was talking last night to a guy who sandblasts > and > > then repaints  > > > fishboats. He uses Endura to paint the hulls > because > > he said you  > > can't  > > > repair Awlgrip and you have to respray the whole > > boat if the Awlgrip  > > > is damaged. Something I didn't know. Thought I > would > > pass it on. > > > > > Mickey > > I know lots of the commercial guys use Endura, it' > > suppossd to be  > > tough as nails. The problem is how do you touch it > up > > if it has been  > > chipped? I heard the same thing about Endura that > you > > heard about  > > Awlgrip, that it's hard or impossible to touch up. > You > > have a tough  > > time with Endura, to rough up the edges around the > > area being repaired  > > because it is SO hard. Can anyone else shed some > light > > on the subject? > > Rowland > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > > To Post a message, send it to:   > > origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > >  > >        > >  > >       SPONSORED LINKS   > >                                                 > Living > > aboard                                    British > > columbia canada                                    > > Vancouver island                                     >   > >                          Yacht                       >   > >            Victoria bc                               >   > >        > >      > > --------------------------------- > >   YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > >  > >    > >     Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web. > >     > >     To unsubscribe from this group, send an email > to: > >  origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > >     > >     Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the > Yahoo! > > Terms of Service. > >  > >    > > --------------------------------- > >  > >  > >  > >  > > Norm Moore > > 559-645-5314 > > >  >  >  >  >  > To Post a message, send it to:   > origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com >  >    >      > --------------------------------- >   YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS >  >    >     Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web. >     >     To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >  origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com >     >     Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! > Terms of Service. >  >    > --------------------------------- >  >  >  >  > Norm Moore > 559-645-5314 > |
9803|9791|2005-12-07 17:46:37|brentswain38|Re: 36' Swain that is for sale|Gary was pretty broke when he listed his boat for sale. Now he  appears to be comming to his senses and is having second thoughts  about selling . His finances are getting better. Brent  --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "kingsknight4life"  <wildcatbjj@h...> wrote:  > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "cwa99utah" <cwa@v...> wrote: > > > > I'm interest in the Swain that is on the main page of this site. > > I've already sent an email requesting info on this particular   boat.  > > Does anyone have any background info on the 36' Swain design? > > I am looking for a steel pilothouse sailboat in the Pacific  > Northwest. > > 35 to 40 foot. > >  > > Thanks, > > CWA > > > Be patient. I'm sure there are a lot of people on here who can  > answer your questions. Of course Brent posts here quite regularily  > and he is an invaluable source of knowledge about these boats and  > their construction. I myself am in the process of bulding a 36'  > Swain bilge keeler, as is Alex the groups' moderator. If you have  > any specific questions I will do my best to answer them.  >  > I'll let Gary answer your questons about his boat but I have been  > aboard and know the builders. I can tell you that it is  very well  > built boat. I doubt you'd be disappointed with its purchase. > Rowland > |
9804|9782|2005-12-07 17:48:22|brentswain38|Re: Boat Paint|Guys who ran a shipyard in Auckland that I once moored off said that  they were totally dissapointed with corten and wouldn't consider  using it again. Brent    --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "tom" <tazmann@i...> wrote: > > Last time I checked they quit manufacturing Cor Ten steel ,is it  still  > available? > ----- Original Message -----  > From: "Dick Pilz" <dickpilz@g...> > To: <origamiboats@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2005 12:14 PM > Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Boat Paint >  >  > > Before waxing too lyrical about CorTen steels and the like,  please > > keep in mind the corrosion resistance holds true for "exposed to > > atamosphere" conditions. Once immersed, they are only as good  as, and > > sometimes worse than, mild steel. > > > > Their prime virtue is a higher tensile and yield point - the  other > > side of which means harder to bend, form and cut. I would only > > consider these alloys where low weight is a consideration and the > > guage is reduced to match the increase in strength. The fatgue > > resistance will go down, though, since thinner sections flex  more, > > irregardless of tensile strength. > > > > CorTen might be a better cadidate for a mast than for a hull. > > > > I haven't done much in the way of boats, but I did design, spec,  tool > > and build steel compressed air tanks to go on heavy duty trucks  for > > twenty years. Those things get condensation on the inside and  salty > > spray and gravel abrasion on the outside. I've run dozens of salt > > spray tests with different coating systems, scratched and  unscratched. > > > > Good surface prep and good coatings beat alloys every time, again > > except where overall weight is a factor. (A pound saved on a  truck is > > worth about 125 USD over a 15 year life.) > > > > The money saved by sticking to mild steel can buy a lot of paint. > > > > Fair Hulls and Fair Sailing > > Dick > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, NORMAN MOORE  <normmoore@s...> wrote: > >> > >> Check out Sigma coatings  I came upon this yacht > >> website of a corten steel Van der Stadt ketch.  The > >> owner endorsed their products and gave the combination > >> he used on his boat. > >> > >> http://www.seakin.com/gilana/sy_for_sale/sy_for_sale.htm > >> > >> > >> Sigma products are used by many industrial and > >> shipping companies.  Some are designed to be recoated > >> on a clean surface painted surface to reduce > >> maintenance costs.  I personally have no experience > >> with them, just found it in my web surfing and thought > >> it sounded interesting. > >> > >> --- kingsknight4life <wildcatbjj@h...> wrote: > >> > >> > >> --------------------------------- > >> --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "mickeyolaf" > >> <mickeyolaf@y...> > >> wrote: > >> > > >> > I was talking last night to a guy who sandblasts and > >> then repaints > >> > fishboats. He uses Endura to paint the hulls because > >> he said you > >> can't > >> > repair Awlgrip and you have to respray the whole > >> boat if the Awlgrip > >> > is damaged. Something I didn't know. Thought I would > >> pass it on. > >> > > >> Mickey > >> I know lots of the commercial guys use Endura, it' > >> suppossd to be > >> tough as nails. The problem is how do you touch it up > >> if it has been > >> chipped? I heard the same thing about Endura that you > >> heard about > >> Awlgrip, that it's hard or impossible to touch up. You > >> have a tough > >> time with Endura, to rough up the edges around the > >> area being repaired > >> because it is SO hard. Can anyone else shed some light > >> on the subject? > >> Rowland > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> To Post a message, send it to: > >> origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > >> To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > >> origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > >> > >> > >> > >>       SPONSORED LINKS > >>                                                 Living > >> aboard                                    British > >> columbia canada > >> Vancouver island > >>                          Yacht > >>            Victoria bc > >> > >> > >> --------------------------------- > >>   YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > >> > >> > >>     Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web. > >> > >>     To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > >>  origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > >> > >>     Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! > >> Terms of Service. > >> > >> > >> --------------------------------- > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> Norm Moore > >> 559-645-5314 > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:  > > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > |
9805|9668|2005-12-07 19:20:14|..|Re: Easyrig Unstayed Mast|Hi Shaine Run the ABS tubes inside the mast where they need to exit to the halyard sheave you can make a box for the  tube to line up with the inner fall of the halyard. When you assemble the tubes in the mast you can seal  round the tube ends. You will also need a number of plastic,ply bulkheads or  foam to hold the tubes and stop the tubes from moving about inside the mast. It is not a good idea from the aerodynamic aspect to put the tubes on each side of the mast,as they will  upset the air flow and cause turbulence. That is the reason why when possible they make alloy mast the shape you will have seen,I know you are not racing but with more turbulence at the leading edge of the sail you are reducing the effectiveness of  that area of the sail and in effect reducing your sail  area. With the tubes inside the mast you do not have to worry about UV,you could use industrial Nylon air line or rigid PVC. You should have a drain plug in the bottom of the mast as there might be some condensation inside as you will    be fixing the sail track and other fitting to the mast which might let in some moisture,you might even put some  rust inhibitor in thought this hole  Geoff England   For me it's going to be Stayed Steel as well (on a tabernacle) if it's possible to have internal halyards, otherwise I suppose it will have to be an alloy spar which I'm not fond of having seen the results of them going overside. Not pretty!  However, to have posative righting ability it has to be sealed doesn't it? But how to set it up with internal halyards if the mast is sealed? External halyards are noisy as hell & want to avoid perpetual slatting of halyards against the rig if I can. Is this possible?   Have been thinking of mounting 2" ABS tubes (painted for UV protection) either side of the mainsail trac for the falls of the halyards to run down (either way you are going to have the leads of the halyards exposed to wind & wether, but they can be lead away from rigging to avoid slatting as with the "usual" alloy spar).   This way you get the best of both worlds, the falls of the halyards are encompassed to shut em up, the spar can then be sealed for posative righting motion in a rollover, you have a steel spar which is stronger than anything else - isn't it, and the additional weight of the ABS tubes would be nominal.           --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.859 / Virus Database: 585 - Release Date: 14/02/2005     [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]|
9806|9744|2005-12-07 19:20:18|..|Re: Foam|Hi Shane, If you try to insulate the containers  as below it will not be very effective as the air which contains moisture will past through the joints in the insulation and condense on the cold steel sides and roof behind the  insulation,this will then drip down between the sheets and onto what you have stored in the container. As the container will act like a large condenser{just like a boat} the insulation has to be bonded to the surface with no air gap so that no air cannot come in contact with the steel or as in the case of steel or GRP boat the  inside of the hull. If it is impossible to obtain this bond as when the inside of a boat hull is sprayed with the foam then an alternative is to leave an air gap between the cold surface and the  insulation, this air gap must be ventilated and drained. To insulate a container it is best to put in a false ceiling with an air space above it which must be ventilated to the  outside. You can do this in the same way as you have proposed,weld  brackets to the side and then fix 3x2 across the width of the container at 16inc centres if you PS sheets are 4x8 then  fix the PS sheets to the 3x2,or the PS can be fitted between the cross members, but this will need thicker insulation  say 2" when you have all the insulation in place staple polythene sheet vapour barrier to the underside of the  insulation,allowing the sheet to hang down the wall  about 18",tape all the joints and over staples. I should have mentioned that you need to cut the ventilation holes for the roof space above the insulation before fixing  the PS insulation,the ventilation holes will also need some  rain covers. The sides of the container can be done in a similar way,the corrugations of the steel sides will ventilate into the  roof space.   You will also need some ventilation for the internal space. I have made a container into a workshop, insulated as above with 2" PS foam,I do not have any problems with condensation. I also cut a smaller access door in one of the large end doors. If you want any more inf ask or email me Geoff Cheshire England       Thanks Guys!  The container & storage guys do this quite often & spray on foam. fast & easy but not cheap. they do not finnish & fare or sand it. it's to stop condensation so your stuff doesn't get dammaged (same like on a Swain)  Unless I can find a cheaper meathod of doing it it will be done with 1" white styrofoam held into place with 1" x 2" framing, the whole mess held up into place by welding 3" sections of angle iron onto the sides of the container near the top.                                   --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.859 / Virus Database: 585 - Release Date: 14/02/2005     [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]|
9807|9641|2005-12-07 19:20:25|..|Re: Mold question (Webbing)|Ted, you could tension the webbing in the same as the old pipe cots,with a lashing rope. Geoff   Seer, I thought about using woven webbing as a base for bunks as I have some  that came from the rigging of a hot air balloon.  The problem that I  foresee is tensioning it so that it doesn't sag like a hammock.  That  can give one a bad back.  To keep tension one would need a strong  frame and probably a means of adjusting individual webbing straps.  Do  you have any good ideas on that?     [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]|
9808|9782|2005-12-07 19:41:55|Richard Till|Re: Boat Paint|RE: Corten  There are reasons Corten is not popular for boatbuilding:  1.  Welding is slower, more complex, more expensive and requires greater  operator skill  2.  Problems with excesive electrolysis below the waterline (corten can eat  itself in salt water)  3.  Greater difficulty forming plate  4.  Greater distortion  5.  Demanding to shear and break  6.  Welding defects are difficult to eliminate/repair (major porosity in  outdoors)  7.  More preheat required for oxy-fuel cutting  I have worked with 1000's of tons of Corten.  It makes good bridges if you  can afford the welding costs.  rt    >From: "brentswain38" <brentswain38@...> >Reply-To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com >To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com >Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Boat Paint >Date: Wed, 07 Dec 2005 22:47:58 -0000 > >Guys who ran a shipyard in Auckland that I once moored off said that >they were totally dissapointed with corten and wouldn't consider >using it again. >Brent > > >--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "tom" <tazmann@i...> wrote: > > > > Last time I checked they quit manufacturing Cor Ten steel ,is it >still > > available? > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Dick Pilz" <dickpilz@g...> > > To: <origamiboats@yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2005 12:14 PM > > Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Boat Paint > > > > > > > Before waxing too lyrical about CorTen steels and the like, >please > > > keep in mind the corrosion resistance holds true for "exposed to > > > atamosphere" conditions. Once immersed, they are only as good >as, and > > > sometimes worse than, mild steel. > > > > > > Their prime virtue is a higher tensile and yield point - the >other > > > side of which means harder to bend, form and cut. I would only > > > consider these alloys where low weight is a consideration and the > > > guage is reduced to match the increase in strength. The fatgue > > > resistance will go down, though, since thinner sections flex >more, > > > irregardless of tensile strength. > > > > > > CorTen might be a better cadidate for a mast than for a hull. > > > > > > I haven't done much in the way of boats, but I did design, spec, >tool > > > and build steel compressed air tanks to go on heavy duty trucks >for > > > twenty years. Those things get condensation on the inside and >salty > > > spray and gravel abrasion on the outside. I've run dozens of salt > > > spray tests with different coating systems, scratched and >unscratched. > > > > > > Good surface prep and good coatings beat alloys every time, again > > > except where overall weight is a factor. (A pound saved on a >truck is > > > worth about 125 USD over a 15 year life.) > > > > > > The money saved by sticking to mild steel can buy a lot of paint. > > > > > > Fair Hulls and Fair Sailing > > > Dick > > > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, NORMAN MOORE ><normmoore@s...> wrote: > > >> > > >> Check out Sigma coatings  I came upon this yacht > > >> website of a corten steel Van der Stadt ketch.  The > > >> owner endorsed their products and gave the combination > > >> he used on his boat. > > >> > > >> http://www.seakin.com/gilana/sy_for_sale/sy_for_sale.htm > > >> > > >> > > >> Sigma products are used by many industrial and > > >> shipping companies.  Some are designed to be recoated > > >> on a clean surface painted surface to reduce > > >> maintenance costs.  I personally have no experience > > >> with them, just found it in my web surfing and thought > > >> it sounded interesting. > > >> > > >> --- kingsknight4life <wildcatbjj@h...> wrote: > > >> > > >> > > >> --------------------------------- > > >> --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "mickeyolaf" > > >> <mickeyolaf@y...> > > >> wrote: > > >> > > > >> > I was talking last night to a guy who sandblasts and > > >> then repaints > > >> > fishboats. He uses Endura to paint the hulls because > > >> he said you > > >> can't > > >> > repair Awlgrip and you have to respray the whole > > >> boat if the Awlgrip > > >> > is damaged. Something I didn't know. Thought I would > > >> pass it on. > > >> > > > >> Mickey > > >> I know lots of the commercial guys use Endura, it' > > >> suppossd to be > > >> tough as nails. The problem is how do you touch it up > > >> if it has been > > >> chipped? I heard the same thing about Endura that you > > >> heard about > > >> Awlgrip, that it's hard or impossible to touch up. You > > >> have a tough > > >> time with Endura, to rough up the edges around the > > >> area being repaired > > >> because it is SO hard. Can anyone else shed some light > > >> on the subject? > > >> Rowland > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> To Post a message, send it to: > > >> origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > >> To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > > >> origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >>       SPONSORED LINKS > > >>                                                 Living > > >> aboard                                    British > > >> columbia canada > > >> Vancouver island > > >>                          Yacht > > >>            Victoria bc > > >> > > >> > > >> --------------------------------- > > >>   YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > >> > > >> > > >>     Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web. > > >> > > >>     To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > >>  origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > >> > > >>     Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! > > >> Terms of Service. > > >> > > >> > > >> --------------------------------- > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> Norm Moore > > >> 559-645-5314 > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > > > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >   _________________________________________________________________ Scan and help eliminate destructive viruses from your inbound and outbound  e-mail and attachments.  http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines    Start enjoying all the benefits of MSN� Premium right now and get the  first two months FREE*.|
9809|9641|2005-12-08 07:03:33|edward_stoneuk|Re: Mold question (Webbing)|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, ".." <gwpdesign@l...> wrote:  > > Ted, > you could tension the webbing in the same as the old pipe cots,with > a lashing rope. > Geoff    Hi Geoff,  I am not familiar with that. How did it work?  Regards, Ted|
9810|9810|2005-12-08 09:59:12|jericoera|Boat paint|I would be tempted myself to use a fairly common marine paint over  the high build epoxy base coats. A common cheaper paint will be  probably easier to find in out of the way places.   I think to some degree some of these other high tech paints may be a  bit of hype. I talked to my brother about it who has worked in a  paint fpr 20 years and he assured me there is a good deal of  marketing that goes on in the paint world.    Cheaper in instances can equate to better.   I have seen a few paint jobs on Brent's boats including Brent's and  the Moonraven and Silas Crosby in Comox BC and the paint does not  appear to be brandnew yet it is still in good nick.  I doubt they  are all using exotic paint systems.  One point to think about--like the steel itself, the paint I would  look for is something that is ductile and can flex with temperature  change and impacts such as winch handles. Too hard a paint and I  would expect it would not be ductile and be prone to chipping more  in large flakes.  Carl M.|
9811|9641|2005-12-08 17:09:50|..|Re: Mold question (Webbing)|Ted, you could tension the webbing in the same as the old pipe cots,with a lashing rope. Geoff   Seer, I thought about using woven webbing as a base for bunks as I have some  that came from the rigging of a hot air balloon.  The problem that I  foresee is tensioning it so that it doesn't sag like a hammock.  That  can give one a bad back.  To keep tension one would need a strong  frame and probably a means of adjusting individual webbing straps.  Do  you have any good ideas   --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.859 / Virus Database: 585 - Release Date: 14/02/2005     [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]|
9812|9810|2005-12-08 22:54:49|mickeyolaf|Re: Boat paint|--I think paint has developed a long ways since Huckleberry Finn first whitewashed the  fence. Coatings are evolving daily ( and probably becoming more toxic). I once bought  paint from Canadian Tire that was absolute crap and I took it back. I bought paint from  Benjamin Moore that was outstanding. Only from use will we all build up knowledge of  what works and what doesn't on our boats. I am not saying to buy paint with a picture of a sailboat on the can as you will immediately  pay twice as much. Just that commercial boat painters use epoxy as base coats. Metal boat  designers advocate its use to protect hulls. Its not hype if it works, is easy to put on and it  lasts. That Steelcoat Paint works for me. I am trying to put my boat together with the least amount of maintenace required. When  the sun shines in April I want to go out on the water sailing, not out of the water via a  travel lift for two weeks of scraping and repainting.  I expect I will be out of pocket  probably a $1000 in paint by the time I am finished. I have seven overtime shifts booked  in December and whatever Martin doesn't steal from my paycheque I am going to put  towards paint and painting.  I am hiring a professional to do the final coats of Endura  because I am useless at spraying. I think in the end you get what you pay for in paint,  women, and boats.                     - In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "jericoera" <jericoera@y...> wrote:  > > I would be tempted myself to use a fairly common marine paint over  > the high build epoxy base coats. A common cheaper paint will be  > probably easier to find in out of the way places.  >  > I think to some degree some of these other high tech paints may be a  > bit of hype. I talked to my brother about it who has worked in a  > paint fpr 20 years and he assured me there is a good deal of  > marketing that goes on in the paint world.   >  > Cheaper in instances can equate to better.  >  > I have seen a few paint jobs on Brent's boats including Brent's and  > the Moonraven and Silas Crosby in Comox BC and the paint does not  > appear to be brandnew yet it is still in good nick.  I doubt they  > are all using exotic paint systems. >  > One point to think about--like the steel itself, the paint I would  > look for is something that is ductile and can flex with temperature  > change and impacts such as winch handles. Too hard a paint and I  > would expect it would not be ductile and be prone to chipping more  > in large flakes. >  > Carl M. > |
9813|9782|2005-12-08 23:15:52|gschnell|Re: Boat Paint|A word to the wise. Sigma may be a good paint, we'll see, but the company, at least the Western Canada reps, ARE NOT!!! I had them survey my boat and recommend the paint system. I accepted their quote, bought their paint and applied it as directed. They informed me, after the fact, that the paint they had quoted ABSOLUTELY could not be used below the waterline. I was left to sandblast it off, buy new paint and reapply the entire area below the waterline. BE CAREFUL!!   NORMAN MOORE wrote:   >  Check out Sigma coatings  I came upon this yacht > website of a corten steel Van der Stadt ketch.  The > owner endorsed their products and gave the combination > he used on his boat. > > http://www.seakin.com/gilana/sy_for_sale/sy_for_sale.htm > > > Sigma products are used by many industrial and > shipping companies.  Some are designed to be recoated > on a clean surface painted surface to reduce > maintenance costs.  I personally have no experience > with them, just found it in my web surfing and thought > it sounded interesting. > > --- kingsknight4life <wildcatbjj@...> wrote: > > > --------------------------------- > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "mickeyolaf" > <mickeyolaf@y...> > wrote: > > > > I was talking last night to a guy who sandblasts and > then repaints > > fishboats. He uses Endura to paint the hulls because > he said you > can't > > repair Awlgrip and you have to respray the whole > boat if the Awlgrip > > is damaged. Something I didn't know. Thought I would > pass it on. > > > Mickey > I know lots of the commercial guys use Endura, it' > suppossd to be > tough as nails. The problem is how do you touch it up > if it has been > chipped? I heard the same thing about Endura that you > heard about > Awlgrip, that it's hard or impossible to touch up. You > have a tough > time with Endura, to rough up the edges around the > area being repaired > because it is SO hard. Can anyone else shed some light > on the subject? > Rowland > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: > origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > >       SPONSORED LINKS >                                                 Living > aboard                                    British > columbia canada > Vancouver island >                          Yacht >            Victoria bc > > > --------------------------------- >   YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > >     Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web. > >     To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > >     Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! > Terms of Service. > > > --------------------------------- > > > > > Norm Moore > 559-645-5314 > > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > >    +  Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web. > >    +  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >       origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > >    +  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of >      Service. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- >    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]|
9814|9810|2005-12-09 01:36:17|silascrosby|Re: Boat paint|'Silas Crosby', 36' Swain, in Comox launched 13 yrs ago we  built from pre-primed plate , then sand-blasted , then zinc flame- sprayed ,then coated with Devoe (now Ameron) epoxy. I re-coated the  topsides last year for the first time because of colour fading.No  rust, even with chipping. Only rust is one pinhole at a stanchion base  that I need to drill out and fill - a single weep line off and on for  12 yrs! Flame spraying was outside above water-line and inside bilges  and inside port hole rims. I probably spent 3 or 4 thousand dollars on  anti corrosion with no regrets. Almost no maintenance to the finish so  far, including a year in the tropics.I probably would not have spent  so much if I was planning to live aboard which would make maintenance  less of an imposition.   Steve|
9815|9810|2005-12-09 01:44:14|Michael Collins|Re: Boat paint|Steve, can you give us any more detail about the zinc flame-spray technology  that was used?    Did this involve  powdered zinc, inert gas, RF ac  current, etc?  Michael    silascrosby wrote:   >'Silas Crosby', 36' Swain, in Comox launched 13 yrs ago we  >built from pre-primed plate , then sand-blasted , then zinc flame- >sprayed ,then coated with Devoe (now Ameron) epoxy. I re-coated the  >topsides last year for the first time because of colour fading.No  >rust, even with chipping. Only rust is one pinhole at a stanchion base  >that I need to drill out and fill - a single weep line off and on for  >12 yrs! Flame spraying was outside above water-line and inside bilges  >and inside port hole rims. I probably spent 3 or 4 thousand dollars on  >anti corrosion with no regrets. Almost no maintenance to the finish so  >far, including a year in the tropics.I probably would not have spent  >so much if I was planning to live aboard which would make maintenance  >less of an imposition.   Steve > > > > > > >To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com >To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com  >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > >  > > > > >. > >   > |
9816|9810|2005-12-09 05:39:45|Gerald Niffenegger|Re: Boat paint|>'Silas Crosby', 36' Swain, in Comox launched 13 yrs ago we >built from pre-primed plate , then sand-blasted , then zinc flame- >sprayed ,then coated with Devoe (now Ameron) epoxy. I re-coated the >topsides last year for the first time because of colour fading.No >rust, even with chipping. Only rust is one pinhole at a stanchion   base  >that I need to drill out and fill - a single weep line off and on for >12 yrs! Flame spraying was outside above water-line and inside bilges >and inside port hole rims. I probably spent 3 or 4 thousand dollars   on  >anti corrosion with no regrets. Almost no maintenance to the finish   so  >far, including a year in the tropics.I probably would not have spent >so much if I was planning to live aboard which would make maintenance >less of an imposition. Steve   Steve Your finish coat was Ameron. Could you fill us in on what primer and  prep prior to the Ameron? Did you wash the zinc down with some  product or maybe vinegar before the undercoat? Did you sand the zinc  prior to primer? Why didn't you flame spray below the waterline? Why didn't you flame  spray the entire inside of the boat? Thanks  Gerald|
9817|9810|2005-12-09 05:46:45|Gerald Niffenegger|Re: Boat paint|We have a boat in the area that was built in Holland more than 80 years  ago and flame spray was applied at that time. Many areas on the inside  of the boat were never painted and some of those areas had rockwool  laid on top of the zinc coat. The insulation was water soaked in many  areas. I looked the inside of the boat over with a light and inspection  mirror and could not find rust. The entire outside was flame sprayed  and in the last five years I have seen the boat start to deteriorate at  the waterline. I talked to the owner and he told me he had not been  changing the zincs because the boat is moored in the river where there  is not 100 percent salt water. After seeing the rusults of 80 years use with no rust, I have already  flame sprayed the entire inside of the boat and the top side. Am  planning to flame spray the entire hull? Gerald|
9818|9810|2005-12-09 07:59:50|Carl Volkwein|Re: Boat paint|Is flame spray, something that can be done by an amature, or does it have to be done by profesionals with expensive equipment? can this equipment be rented?   Carl from Wv.  silascrosby <silascrosby@...> wrote:   'Silas Crosby', 36' Swain, in Comox launched 13 yrs ago we  built from pre-primed plate , then sand-blasted , then zinc flame- sprayed ,then coated with Devoe (now Ameron) epoxy. I re-coated the  topsides last year for the first time because of colour fading.No  rust, even with chipping. Only rust is one pinhole at a stanchion base  that I need to drill out and fill - a single weep line off and on for  12 yrs! Flame spraying was outside above water-line and inside bilges  and inside port hole rims. I probably spent 3 or 4 thousand dollars on  anti corrosion with no regrets. Almost no maintenance to the finish so  far, including a year in the tropics.I probably would not have spent  so much if I was planning to live aboard which would make maintenance  less of an imposition.   Steve      To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com       SPONSORED LINKS          Living aboard   British columbia canada   Vancouver island     Yacht   Victoria bc       ---------------------------------   YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS            Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web.          To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:  origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com          Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.        ---------------------------------          			 --------------------------------- Yahoo! Shopping  Find Great Deals on Holiday Gifts at Yahoo! Shopping   [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]|
9819|9810|2005-12-09 09:58:17|Gerald Niffenegger|Re: Boat paint|> Is flame spray, something that can be done by an amature, or does   it have to be done by profesionals with expensive equipment? can this  equipment be rented?  >   Carl from Wv.    Here is a Metro wire gun for sale on ebay.  http://cgi.ebay.com/METCO-4E-Metallizing-Gun-w-accessories-and-wood- box_W0QQitemZ7570789746QQcategoryZ25278QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZVi ewItem   Here in Brasil they wanted 15,000US$ for a new Metco gun. I bought a  50 year old type Y gun for 120US$ and it had a box full of nozzles  drive wheels .......... etc. etc. The self contained gun pulls the  wire, of choice, using an air driven motor. Oxygen acetylene heats  the wire to liquid and air passing thru the nozzle turns the liquid  metal in to a vapor. I am told that the vaporized metal exits the gun  at around 600 degrees cen. You need a fair size compressor and it  helps if you have flow gauges for control of oxygen acetylene. The  actual spraying part of the operation, in my opinion, is much easier  than spray painting. Gerald|
9820|9820|2005-12-09 10:36:15|SHANE ROTHWELL|Insulating containers|Thank you gentlemen for your input!  As the top of the containers is corrigated (sp) in order to exclude air I had to go with spray on foam ($500 for both containers). due to the cold (about 1 degree C at the time) the foam did not "jump up" & got to normal 1" thickness on application, so needed a 2nd coat.  But it did not seal entirely with the steel in places so I am now in the process of sealing around the edges with calking & of course have to heat & move air with every fan & blower I have as in cold temps the calk does not "kick". so a bit of heat & lots of air movement (with a wee little fan to vent it out as well). seems to work but fast it is not.  the other bummer is that in fixing up tarps over the doors I stepped too fafr from the side/edge of the top of the container & cracked the foam- about 1 square metre - foam separated from steel (walk on the edges of the container bozo!) so have to get the heat into that container (1 have 2), make sure that all is dry, then cut thru the foam in littel 'inspection hatches, make sure there is no condensation & dripping water, aapply 6kw of heaters & all fans, then spray contact cement into the void between foam & steel, let that dry & get tacky, push the foam into contact with the steel & seal up with cans of spray foam, then calk the edges.  All great fun of course but even tho I'm haveing a time with it, it does seem the best alternative.  I see this as a test run for doing a boat and at least a steel hull will be much more rigid & not flex like the top of a container.  Live & learn...  Cheers, Shane   	  	 		 __________________________________________________________  Find your next car at http://autos.yahoo.ca|
9821|9810|2005-12-09 11:08:23|jericoera|Re: Boat paint|$4000 over the life of the boat sounds like a bargain! You would  have to spend significantly more if you were to build in aluminum to  get the same level of anti corrosion you have successfully got from  flame spraying the steel.  I am in Powell River. Here is my email: shakeena@... If you wouldn't mind, maybe you could email me your contact info. i  wouldn't mind having a closer peak at your vessel next time I am  over if you are OK with that. I have yet to see the interior of a 36  Carl M.  --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "silascrosby"  <silascrosby@s...> wrote:  > > 'Silas Crosby', 36' Swain, in Comox launched 13 yrs ago we  > built from pre-primed plate , then sand-blasted , then zinc flame- > sprayed ,then coated with Devoe (now Ameron) epoxy. I re-coated   the   > topsides last year for the first time because of colour fading.No  > rust, even with chipping. Only rust is one pinhole at a stanchion   base   > that I need to drill out and fill - a single weep line off and on   for   > 12 yrs! Flame spraying was outside above water-line and inside   bilges   > and inside port hole rims. I probably spent 3 or 4 thousand   dollars on   > anti corrosion with no regrets. Almost no maintenance to the   finish so   > far, including a year in the tropics.I probably would not have   spent   > so much if I was planning to live aboard which would make   maintenance   > less of an imposition.   Steve > |
9822|9822|2005-12-09 13:26:23|jericoera|Great aluminum dinghy!!|I have been wanting an aluminum dinghy but in the pram style and other  than really wide bass fishing boats, there is little I could find on  the internet.  I finally stumbled across Michael Kasten's aluminum prams and they  look pretty well thought out. While a ten footer may be too big for  some people, Kasten's aluminum dinghy is wide enough and long enough  for gunkholing and sleeping in the bottom with a mat if you want.  I myself am planning to build one.   Its not origami, but it is still a good practical looking vessel  though you may want an eight footer for some folks.  I believe Mike's website is www.kastenmarine.com  Carl McIntosh|
9823|9823|2005-12-09 21:25:51|John Cupp|International Boat Builders Co-oP|Hello guys, John Cupp here.  I wanted to let you know about the new  idea of a boat building co-op built around the same framework like  the farmers co-ops that have thrived for more than one hundred  years.  Since boat building is in our blood and DNA makeup I figured  that I should try to put the word out about the co-op and the group  I started on yahoo.  You can read my article for free at Duckworks  magazine, they have gone to a free format and let advertising pay  for the magazine end.  Here is the address of the article, http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/06/columns/cupp/index1.htm    Now  you can join the group on yahoo at,   http://groups.yahoo.com/group/boatbuildingco_op/   or just read the  posts.  At least read the statement on the home page.   The Co-oP is  for you guys especially so please check it out and lets get busy.  I  have some plans on the way for a trailerable saw mill that uses a  chain saw to cut nice straight smooth lumber. I plan on building  these trailer mills for the different chapters across Canada and the  USA for the different chapters and members so they can cut their own  lumber to build the boats without all the high costs.  I have plans  to make tools and supplies available to co-o members at huge  discounts compared to retail buying or even wholesale.  So take a  look it can not kill you. BTW, It is not only for wood boats either,  everyone uses tools and a better price for sheet steel and alloy  could be in the works also.|
9824|9823|2005-12-09 21:45:04|Puck III|Re: International Boat Builders Co-oP|A Good idea , awaiting approval for membership i'd love to see the machinery soon .  An Old Woodworker :-)  --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "John Cupp" <boatdock@k...>  wrote:  > >  Hello guys, John Cupp here.  I wanted to let you know about the   new   > idea of a boat building co-op built around the same framework like  > the farmers co-ops that have thrived for more than one hundred  > years.  Since boat building is in our blood and DNA makeup I   figured   > that I should try to put the word out about the co-op and the group  > I started on yahoo.  You can read my article for free at Duckworks  > magazine, they have gone to a free format and let advertising pay  > for the magazine end.  Here is the address of the article, > http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/06/columns/cupp/index1.htm    Now  > you can join the group on yahoo at,   > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/boatbuildingco_op/   or just read the  > posts.  At least read the statement on the home page.   The Co-oP   is   > for you guys especially so please check it out and lets get busy.    I   > have some plans on the way for a trailerable saw mill that uses a  > chain saw to cut nice straight smooth lumber. I plan on building  > these trailer mills for the different chapters across Canada and   the   > USA for the different chapters and members so they can cut their   own   > lumber to build the boats without all the high costs.  I have plans  > to make tools and supplies available to co-o members at huge  > discounts compared to retail buying or even wholesale.  So take a  > look it can not kill you. BTW, It is not only for wood boats   either,   > everyone uses tools and a better price for sheet steel and alloy  > could be in the works also. > |
9825|9822|2005-12-09 22:55:32|Jim Ragsdale|Re: Great aluminum dinghy!!|On the subject of aluminium dingys, Isn't there a  pattern for an origami  dingy around somewere. My friend and I are thinking of building one.   On Friday 09 December 2005 12:26 pm, jericoera wrote: > I have been wanting an aluminum dinghy but in the pram style and other > than really wide bass fishing boats, there is little I could find on > the internet. > > I finally stumbled across Michael Kasten's aluminum prams and they > look pretty well thought out. While a ten footer may be too big for > some people, Kasten's aluminum dinghy is wide enough and long enough > for gunkholing and sleeping in the bottom with a mat if you want. > > I myself am planning to build one. > > Its not origami, but it is still a good practical looking vessel > though you may want an eight footer for some folks. > > I believe Mike's website is www.kastenmarine.com > Carl McIntosh > |
9826|9823|2005-12-10 00:19:11|Puck III|Re: International Boat Builders Co-oP|Hi All, Hi John , while waiting to be approved as a member , that's been taken care off since [ real fast , thanks ] I went over the Links in your profile , to find all  the links related to steel and aluminum building.  I went to Duckworks : to the department Designers - Purveyers of plans .  Guess what ? immediatly I saw : a Link to an online  Department Store : " The New Booden Plans Web Site " where I found Caterina :-) an 11m Steel Cruising Cat, wich was mentioned lately in this Group.  Immediately I became a free member , and found some interesting info , I even tried out the stores different payment options and proposals : 1750$ for the aluminum Catarina version can be seen once you are a member and a lot more realy ......  A pdf file is offered for sale at 25$ and it is mentioned " PDF contains sufficient info for you to decide to buy the plan "  I abstained to buy for now , cause I would like some additional info first : - who designed that boat and when ?   [ I read 15 plans were sold allready ] - is there anywhere all the answers and claims   can be independently assessed? - who is the owner of the new plan store , and    what are his qualifications ??  so all interested should download the only pic and 2 vieuws for general info and realy watch out before proceeding further to their payment department .  I think you can't even send a registered letter to a PObox , and a PO box adress is all what's provided .  I await Mister's Booden respons to those questions ,  [ will we see them appear in Q&A ?? ]  Your NEW Yahoo Group could work on an evaluation about all I mentioned above . In this Group you find more info and pics than you realy care for And I wonder if you can find a better place and better prices to buy plans , receive info , advise etcetera regarding the Topic in here.  I hope you will post a good Link with a good Intro , for the Origamiboats Plan Chest . future members will thank you for it :-)  Just some thoughts .  Best regards.  Old Ben ------------------------------------------------------------------  --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III" <ben_azo@h...> wrote: > > A Good idea , awaiting approval for membership i'd love > to see the machinery soon . >  > An Old Woodworker :-) -------------------------------------------------------------------  > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "John Cupp" <boatdock@k...>  > wrote: > > > >  Hello guys, John Cupp here.  I wanted to let you know about the  > new  > > idea of a boat building co-op built around the same framework  like  > > the farmers co-ops that have thrived for more than one hundred  > > years.  Since boat building is in our blood and DNA makeup I  > figured  > > that I should try to put the word out about the co-op and the  group  > > I started on yahoo.  You can read my article for free at  Duckworks  > > magazine, they have gone to a free format and let advertising pay  > > for the magazine end.  Here is the address of the article, > > http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/06/columns/cupp/index1.htm     Now  > > you can join the group on yahoo at,   > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/boatbuildingco_op/   or just read  the  > > posts.  At least read the statement on the home page.   The Co-oP  > is  > > for you guys especially so please check it out and lets get  busy.   > I  > > have some plans on the way for a trailerable saw mill that uses a  > > chain saw to cut nice straight smooth lumber. I plan on building  > > these trailer mills for the different chapters across Canada and  > the  > > USA for the different chapters and members so they can cut their  > own  > > lumber to build the boats without all the high costs.  I have  plans  > > to make tools and supplies available to co-o members at huge  > > discounts compared to retail buying or even wholesale.  So take a  > > look it can not kill you. BTW, It is not only for wood boats  > either,  > > everyone uses tools and a better price for sheet steel and alloy  > > could be in the works also. > > > |
9827|9827|2005-12-10 00:25:07|Puck III|Caterina|http://www.bodenboatplans.com/sail/details.aspx?id=29|
9828|9827|2005-12-10 00:29:32|Puck III|Re: Caterina|To me she looks like two joined narrow monohull keelboats. Worth looking into ??   I realy wonder .  Old Ben   --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III" <ben_azo@h...> wrote: > > http://www.bodenboatplans.com/sail/details.aspx?id=29 > |
9829|9810|2005-12-10 00:59:06|silascrosby|Re: Boat paint|The 'Silas Crosby' was flame-sprayed by a guy who was living on a 44'  Brewer design in Sidney,BC ; boat name 'Kodiak'. I cannot remember his  name. He had purchased the equipment to do his own boat as he built it  in Kitimat, likely in the late '80s. It was an acetylene flame with  zinc wire fed through and blown onto the blasted surface. The wire was  on an electric-motor feed from a circular tray.?brand -name.   I discussed it with Ed Rutherford of Waterline Yachts in Sidney  before deciding to go ahead. At that time only about half of his  cutomers opted for the flame-spraying. He felt it was mostly because  they didn't understand the process.   I was in SanDiego last month to sail with Timo of 'Sisu'(Campbell  River) and Karl of 'Lungta' (Comox) as they headed down the Baja ( I  spent a week on each boat, one a twin-keel and the other a single-keel) I changed boats in Turtle Bay.  While in SanDiego I met Ed and Marilyn Rutherford again ,this time on  their 51' Waterline yacht 'Mettle'(12,000 hours to build !). Now all  their customers go for flame-spraying. They do not do below the  waterline because of experience with blistering. 'Spray-Venture', the  first Waterline hull, a Roberts Spray 40, was flame -sprayed below the  waterline and they eventually blasted it off and just epoxied.  Other people , including Brent S., have a very good point that even  without flame-spraying the paint adhesion and corrosion resistance is  good with modern epoxies, or even older epoxies. Maintenance on the  hull is tiny compared with maintenance on the mechanical and  electrical systems ,even without flame-spraying. As I remember it ,Artie Bates of Devoe in Vancouver specified Devoe  Zinc-rich primer, then Bar-Rust(?235) ,then a finish epoxy, then ABC3  antifouling for below waterline. Topsides has flame-spray then Bar- Rust,then finish epoxy. Possibly as important as the paint was our  good luck with hot dry July weather for several days. The flame spray  was not touched (literally) before painting. The two initial coats of  paint were sprayed and all subsequent paint has been brushed or  rolled.Not a mirror finish by any means. I did not do the entire  interior because of time, cost and ,possibly ,expert advice. There was  no GOOD reason not to spray all the inside while we had the set-up. Incidentally, the two-week trip down the west side of the Baja as an  escape from a Vancouver Island winter was just what the doctor  ordered. Every day was warmer and warmer until I disembarked at Puerto  San Carlos in Bahia Magdalena. Even the two day bus trip  back to  Tijuana via LaPaz through the desert was a pleasure.        Steve|
9830|9810|2005-12-10 05:04:45|Gerald Niffenegger|Re: Boat paint|Steve Thank you for the information. I did some rough, real rough, figures on the cost of paint verses flame  spray. If you put on two coats of Bar-Rust you would spend in the area  of 4US$ per sq. meter. I figure that flame spray costs about 1.50US$  per sq. meter.  Consider that you spray foam directly over the zinc on  the inside or spray foam over a couple coats of Bar-Rust. I might be  way off on the prices since I am transferring Reals to US$ and don't  know if the price of Bar-Rust was in Canadian or US$? Just some food  for thought and of course all my calculations are based on doing it  yourself instead of hiring someone. Gerald|
9831|9827|2005-12-10 06:56:57|Denis Buggy|Re: Caterina|abandon hope all ye who enter here , i paid my 25 dollars  i got a foggy view of something designed to be a foggy view of something  on a sheet of paper no software can clean it up and the drawings may be well off scale to make them useless . denis    ----- Original Message -----    From: Puck III    To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com    Sent: Saturday, December 10, 2005 5:28 AM   Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Caterina     To me she looks like two joined narrow monohull keelboats.   Worth looking into ??   I realy wonder .    Old Ben    --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III" <ben_azo@h...> wrote:   >   > http://www.bodenboatplans.com/sail/details.aspx?id=29   >          To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com   To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com     ------------------------------------------------------------------------------   YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS       a..  Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web.            b..  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:      origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com            c..  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
9832|9832|2005-12-10 10:35:46|prairiemaidca|sealing ports|Hi All:   The weather has moderated from -20odd C. to above 0 again and  time for more boat work  before the next deep freeze.  I need  informatioin about the gasket material talked about in Brent's book.  A  rubber material is used between the glazing and the steel.  What  exactly is the material and how thick should it be?  What is the  adheasive that is used and is it placed on both sides of the gasket  material.  I know that port leakage has been a problem for some and a  real hassel on all kinds of boats.  I don't want Prairie Maid to have a  problem so I want to get it right the first time.  Can those that have  had sucsess elaborate on how they achieved it.  Thanks Martin Forster (Prairie Maid)|
9833|9827|2005-12-10 11:47:17|Gerd|Re: Caterina|Denis, this design illustrates nicely the steel-cat dilemma: about  50% (!!) more displacement than say a privilege crusing cat, which  is bigger at 39' and not really known for being a lightweight to  begin with. There is no way around that.  So the real question here is: what's wrong with a heavy cat?  If the usual advantages of a crusing cat are living space, speed and  upright sailing, then high weight of course takes speed out of it.  But the two other advantages might still be interesting, IF this is  compensated by significantly reduced cost and IF we still have just  as safe and seworthy a vessel (compared to the lighter cat) - this  last part I am not sure about for the moment as there is a general  lack of empiric knowledge in this area.   BTW, did you get any info on scantling of hull and structure for the  boat?  Gerd The Yago Project at http://www.justmueller.com/boats/  --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Denis Buggy" <buggy@i...>  wrote:  > > abandon hope all ye who enter here , i paid my 25 dollars  i got a   foggy view of something designed to be a foggy view of something  on  a sheet of paper no software can clean it up and the drawings may be  well off scale to make them useless . denis  >   ----- Original Message -----  >   From: Puck III  >   To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com  >   Sent: Saturday, December 10, 2005 5:28 AM >   Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Caterina >  >  >   To me she looks like two joined narrow monohull keelboats. >   Worth looking into ??   I realy wonder . >  >   Old Ben >  >   --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III" <ben_azo@h...>   wrote:  >   > >   > http://www.bodenboatplans.com/sail/details.aspx?id=29 >   > >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >   To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com >   To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-  unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com   >  >  >  > -------------------------------------------------------------------  -----------  >   YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS  >  >     a..  Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web. >        >     b..  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >      origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com >        >     c..  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms   of Service.   >  >  > -------------------------------------------------------------------  -----------  >  >  >  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > |
9834|9827|2005-12-10 16:56:39|jericoera|Re: Caterina|There is a multi million dollar metal cat sitting at the bottom of  the ocean other than one hole in it that the US authorities put in  it if you could retrieve it somehow. Its only been down a couple  years so should be salvageable.   The owner won't miss it as he is enjoying federal hospitality I  think in Costa Rica after the drug laden boat had its merchandise  removed by authorities.  I know the incarcerated guys nephew and he he told me a good deal  about this boat and it sounds like it would be worth salvaging if it  wasn't too deep.   Sounds crazy but if a person had time, I bet there are all kinds of  great things to salvage.  Carl M     --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Gerd" <yago@j...> wrote: > > Denis, this design illustrates nicely the steel-cat dilemma: about  > 50% (!!) more displacement than say a privilege crusing cat, which  > is bigger at 39' and not really known for being a lightweight to  > begin with. There is no way around that. >  > So the real question here is: what's wrong with a heavy cat? >  > If the usual advantages of a crusing cat are living space, speed  and  > upright sailing, then high weight of course takes speed out of it. >  > But the two other advantages might still be interesting, IF this  is  > compensated by significantly reduced cost and IF we still have  just  > as safe and seworthy a vessel (compared to the lighter cat) - this  > last part I am not sure about for the moment as there is a general  > lack of empiric knowledge in this area.  >  > BTW, did you get any info on scantling of hull and structure for  the  > boat? >  > Gerd > The Yago Project at http://www.justmueller.com/boats/ >  > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Denis Buggy" <buggy@i...>  > wrote: > > > > abandon hope all ye who enter here , i paid my 25 dollars  i got  a  > foggy view of something designed to be a foggy view of something   on  > a sheet of paper no software can clean it up and the drawings may  be  > well off scale to make them useless . denis > >   ----- Original Message -----  > >   From: Puck III  > >   To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com  > >   Sent: Saturday, December 10, 2005 5:28 AM > >   Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Caterina > >  > >  > >   To me she looks like two joined narrow monohull keelboats. > >   Worth looking into ??   I realy wonder . > >  > >   Old Ben > >  > >   --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III" <ben_azo@h...>  > wrote: > >   > > >   > http://www.bodenboatplans.com/sail/details.aspx?id=29 > >   > > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >   To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > >   To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats- > unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com  > >  > >  > >  > > ----------------------------------------------------------------- -- > ----------- > >   YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS  > >  > >     a..  Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web. > >        > >     b..  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > >      origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > >        > >     c..  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!  Terms  > of Service.  > >  > >  > > ----------------------------------------------------------------- -- > ----------- > >  > >  > >  > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > |
9835|9641|2005-12-10 19:51:44|brentswain38|Re: Mold question (Webbing)|Ive been living aboard for 34 years and with vinyl  cushion covers  I'v e had no mold problem of ay kind. Brent   --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, ".." <gwpdesign@l...> wrote: > > Ted, > you could tension the webbing in the same as the old pipe cots,with > a lashing rope. > Geoff >   > Seer, > I thought about using woven webbing as a base for bunks as I have  some  > that came from the rigging of a hot air balloon.  The problem that  I  > foresee is tensioning it so that it doesn't sag like a hammock.   That  > can give one a bad back.  To keep tension one would need a strong  > frame and probably a means of adjusting individual webbing straps.   Do  > you have any good ideas on that? >  >  >  >  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > |
9836|9822|2005-12-11 03:49:37|Puck III|Re: Great aluminum dinghy!!|Hi All , Hi Carl , I went over at   http://www.kastenmarine.com     an excellent website by the way , to see the aluminum pram  you mentioned . Indeed it's a pretty boat , real Dutch inspired , I like her.  I found the Dinghy topic much interesting , cause  any cruiser is gone need one .  With Dinghies it's a bit like with boats ,many dinghies and options to consider , aint that nice.  I placed some photos at origamiboats2 in the PhotoAlbum : Dinghi & Pram & Lifeboat to illustrate my arguments. direct Link : http://tinyurl.com/afm7n  - a pretty origami alu dinghy - the Kasten Pram sailing + 3 views - a V versus DoubleHull comparaison from the BIC 252 see :   http://www.bicsportboats.com/boats/252.php?lang=us - a lifeboatdinghy illustration - 3 photocollages as illustrations   Is the dinghy Topic worth to looking into ? A well made common design goal could certainly end up in an interesting new Origami Design .  Designing and building such a Dinghy could be a nice starters project for people hesitating to start a larger build.  I was impressed how good and fast Tom assembled that BS 26 ,and I was not alone. Building a small aluminum Origami dinghy could be the best promotion for Origami. A fast and fun weekender that becomes the larger boat's dinghy later .  Just curious to learn what you all think.  Old Ben ------------------------------------------------------------- --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "jericoera" <jericoera@y...>  wrote:  > > I have been wanting an aluminum dinghy but in the pram style and   other   > than really wide bass fishing boats, there is little I could find   on   > the internet. >  > I finally stumbled across Michael Kasten's aluminum prams and they  > look pretty well thought out. While a ten footer may be too big for  > some people, Kasten's aluminum dinghy is wide enough and long   enough   > for gunkholing and sleeping in the bottom with a mat if you want. >  > I myself am planning to build one.  >  > Its not origami, but it is still a good practical looking vessel  > though you may want an eight footer for some folks. >  > I believe Mike's website is www.kastenmarine.com  > Carl McIntosh > |
9837|9822|2005-12-11 08:29:46|tom|Re: Great aluminum dinghy!!|Neet looking dinghy. Have you figured out what its going to cost when  finished? Tom  ----- Original Message -----  From: "jericoera" <jericoera@...> To: <origamiboats@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, December 09, 2005 10:26 AM Subject: [origamiboats] Great aluminum dinghy!!   >I have been wanting an aluminum dinghy but in the pram style and other > than really wide bass fishing boats, there is little I could find on > the internet. > > I finally stumbled across Michael Kasten's aluminum prams and they > look pretty well thought out. While a ten footer may be too big for > some people, Kasten's aluminum dinghy is wide enough and long enough > for gunkholing and sleeping in the bottom with a mat if you want. > > I myself am planning to build one. > > Its not origami, but it is still a good practical looking vessel > though you may want an eight footer for some folks. > > I believe Mike's website is www.kastenmarine.com > Carl McIntosh > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:  > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > |
9838|9822|2005-12-11 12:34:57|jericoera|Re: Great aluminum dinghy!!|Cost wise, the Kasten Dingy plans are on his website. The ones I  want are $ 150 US  He offers NC cutting files for a bit more, but if you are building  one dinghy I am not sure that the cost of having the parts NC cut  would justify the added expense. Aluminum is easy to cut and you can  use mostly regular tools so I am told so I will just plot it out and  cut it.  As for the cost of aluminum, I won't know how much I need until the  plans get here.  After looking at Ben's file he uploaded I also got thinking  something that would be a fun project would be to make an origami  pram sometime in aluminum. The origami method would give the pram  natural rocker which would make it better for rowing if the  waterline was long enough and then you could tack in the bow and  stern sections for the pram seperately.  As for origami, Brent's little dinghy held me at 209 pounds and what  ever he weighs which is at least as much as me and rowed beautifully  though a little tricky to get into stability wise until you get used  to it. I was suprised that you could pack so much weight into a  dinghy. And i think that what ever length brent's dinghy is it would  be car toppable if you wanted to fish on calm days in between  building your mother ship. The Kasten dinghy comes in 8-10-12-and 14  feet.  Csrl M.|
9839|9827|2005-12-11 17:45:16|Puck III|Re: Caterina|Hi Denis , you payed 25$ for something unclear ??? Guess what ? I payed nothing at all.......and..... as a free member over there I received allready 2 nice mails [ unrequested , so may be for life ]  mail 1 to tell me I am now a member of the " Boden Boat Plans Memebers Area "  mail 2 is an unrequested Order confirmation for the famous 25$ Catarina pdf file .  I posted the 2 mails in the NEW Catarina Folder in the Origamiboats2 Files. the members name and the password received are easy to find in mail 2  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats2/files/Caterina%20Steel% 20Catamaran/   or http://tinyurl.com/95zdw  in case the long original url does not work  Files > Caterina Steel Catamaran     MSN Hotmail - Bericht -2.htm  ben_izo ordered Nothing - a 25$ gift to have a peak ?-pdf viewable  for 1 year or download :-)  46 KB    ben_azo   Dec 11, 2005      MSN Hotmail - Bericht.htm  Boden Boat Plans "Memebers" Area    I ordered Nothing , requested specificly I did NOT cared to receive promotional mail when I joined.  So for now I consider it as SPAM ,  to early to talk about a SCAM , cause I received no invoice at this moment .  On the other hand , I want everybody to be able to vieuw that 25$ pdf file , acces is free for  members using the name and password in mail2.  Do not tell me if you download it for free , just tell me if it's worth 25$ only to see.  At your service :-)  Old Ben   --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Denis Buggy" <buggy@i...> wrote: > > abandon hope all ye who enter here , i paid my 25 dollars  i got a  foggy view of something designed to be a foggy view of something  on  a sheet of paper no software can clean it up and the drawings may be  well off scale to make them useless . denis >   ----- Original Message -----  >   From: Puck III  >   To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com  >   Sent: Saturday, December 10, 2005 5:28 AM >   Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Caterina >  >  >   To me she looks like two joined narrow monohull keelboats. >   Worth looking into ??   I realy wonder . >  >   Old Ben >  >   --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III" <ben_azo@h...>  wrote: >   > >   > http://www.bodenboatplans.com/sail/details.aspx?id=29 >   > >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >   To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com >   To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats- unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com  >  >  >  > -------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------- >   YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS  >  >     a..  Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web. >        >     b..  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >      origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com >        >     c..  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms  of Service.  >  >  > -------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------- >  >  >  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > |
9840|9840|2005-12-11 18:35:30|tom|BS 26|Hello not mutch progress to report on the consruction, hard to get motivated when its 37 degrees and foggy. I have ben leveling and pulling sides in to profile getting her ready for the decking. Came up with a game plan for the deck profile, what Im going to do is buy a few sheets of fiber board attach them end to end and loft the deck profile full size then cut it. then I should have a perfect full size pattern to work from.  What have others use for patterns on deck ? I think I am going to recut the rear of the chines if you look at the pictures Ive posted in origamiboats2 the chines are streight to about 1/2 way back then they curve down about a 1/2"  whitch causes a pretty notesable upward hook in the center. I should have built a scale model first would have ben easy to adjust then, thats what i get for being lazy and assuming the pattern was accurate. Live and learn Take care and happy holidays Tom     [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]|
9841|9840|2005-12-11 20:04:25|Puck III|Re: BS 26|Hi Tom , afther rain comes sunshine and afther cold comes warmth ,  I usualy make cardboard models , 100% from free cardboard packaging residue . Than I stand back how the volume looks on the hull . Later I pin window-silhouettes made out of the same cardboard but in a different collor to see if I am happy with the profile . Nothing like 100% vieuw .  I also like to play superimposing pics on the computer, just simple photoshop , so at least you have an idea how things will look , but again the design is made to end up with a pretty boat . A nice design can look real ugly on a boat . On the water you just see above the waterline.  Building a model in thin sheet wont take much time  for a fine welder . Just for fun I posted a totaly different deck on Aaron's boat , does that looks that ugly or unreasonable ??  I am not sure , some may even like it . Live and learn......that's a good one :-)  Take care and happy holidays to you to .  Old Ben   --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "tom" <tazmann@i...> wrote: > > Hello not mutch progress to report on the consruction, hard to get  motivated when its 37 degrees and foggy. I have ben leveling and  pulling sides in to profile getting her ready for the decking. Came  up with a game plan for the deck profile, what Im going to do is buy  a few sheets of fiber board attach them end to end and loft the deck  profile full size then cut it. then I should have a perfect full size  pattern to work from. >  What have others use for patterns on deck ? > I think I am going to recut the rear of the chines if you look at  the pictures Ive posted in origamiboats2 the chines are streight to  about 1/2 way back then they curve down about a 1/2"  whitch causes a  pretty notesable upward hook in the center. I should have built a  scale model first would have ben easy to adjust then, thats what i  get for being lazy and assuming the pattern was accurate. Live and  learn > Take care and happy holidays > Tom >    >  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > |
9842|9840|2005-12-11 22:00:06|tom|Re: BS 26|Hello Old Ben  actualy youre picture doesnt look bad, Ive thought about doing that myself, there is a 27ft design ive ben looking at the cabin and deck layout with bowspirit that i realy like. very simple layout old style cabin with more cockpit and fordeck space. just not sure of bowspirit and what would have to be done to keep rig balanced?   ----- Original Message -----  From: "Puck III" <ben_azo@...> To: <origamiboats@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2005 5:03 PM Subject: [origamiboats] Re: BS 26   > Hi Tom , afther rain comes sunshine and afther cold comes warmth , > > I usualy make cardboard models , 100% from free cardboard > packaging residue . Than I stand back how the volume looks > on the hull . Later I pin window-silhouettes made out of > the same cardboard but in a different collor to see if > I am happy with the profile . > Nothing like 100% vieuw . > > I also like to play superimposing pics on the computer, > just simple photoshop , so at least you have an idea > how things will look , but again the design is made to > end up with a pretty boat . > A nice design can look real ugly on a boat . > On the water you just see above the waterline. > > Building a model in thin sheet wont take much time > for a fine welder . > Just for fun I posted a totaly different deck on Aaron's > boat , does that looks that ugly or unreasonable ?? > > I am not sure , some may even like it . > Live and learn......that's a good one :-) > > Take care and happy holidays to you to . > > Old Ben > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "tom" <tazmann@i...> wrote: >> >> Hello not mutch progress to report on the consruction, hard to get > motivated when its 37 degrees and foggy. I have ben leveling and > pulling sides in to profile getting her ready for the decking. Came > up with a game plan for the deck profile, what Im going to do is buy > a few sheets of fiber board attach them end to end and loft the deck > profile full size then cut it. then I should have a perfect full size > pattern to work from. >>  What have others use for patterns on deck ? >> I think I am going to recut the rear of the chines if you look at > the pictures Ive posted in origamiboats2 the chines are streight to > about 1/2 way back then they curve down about a 1/2"  whitch causes a > pretty notesable upward hook in the center. I should have built a > scale model first would have ben easy to adjust then, thats what i > get for being lazy and assuming the pattern was accurate. Live and > learn >> Take care and happy holidays >> Tom >> >> >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >> > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:  > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > |
9843|9840|2005-12-11 23:49:00|Puck III|Re: BS 26|Hi Tom ,  What 27ft design Tom ? please direct me to the pic or post it in your album , for me to see .  A bowsprit is an anoying thing , believe me , I used several ones , retractables and other :-) If you can do without , you'r better of....... always a pain to enter a docking space........ it has it use in certain applications but I try to avoid it . The same with a second mast.......,looks prettty that's about all I know in favor. We were just looking at deckhouse options,right?  Balance a rig on a well balanced hull aint that difficult , go for the rig with the least to worry about for your use .  Wasn't your idea to transport the boat or to keep it on the trailor when not in use ?  Did you ever considered a gaff......shorter spars, a well designed peaked gaff can give some amazing speed but one of the major advantages are that your sails can be used longer , even worn out a bit , you can peack the gaff some more , tension the luff or give more fullnes to the main, I like to play the robes and look at the speedo to search for the best speed .  Just my 2cents worth of opinion :-)  Old Ben   --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "tom" <tazmann@i...> wrote: > > Hello Old Ben >  actualy youre picture doesnt look bad, Ive thought about doing  that myself, > there is a 27ft design ive ben looking at the cabin and deck layout  with > bowspirit that i realy like. > very simple layout old style cabin with more cockpit and fordeck  space. just > not sure of bowspirit and what would have to be done to keep rig  balanced? >  > ----- Original Message -----  > From: "Puck III" <ben_azo@h...> > To: <origamiboats@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2005 5:03 PM > Subject: [origamiboats] Re: BS 26 >  >  > > Hi Tom , afther rain comes sunshine and afther cold comes warmth , > > > > I usualy make cardboard models , 100% from free cardboard > > packaging residue . Than I stand back how the volume looks > > on the hull . Later I pin window-silhouettes made out of > > the same cardboard but in a different collor to see if > > I am happy with the profile . > > Nothing like 100% vieuw . > > > > I also like to play superimposing pics on the computer, > > just simple photoshop , so at least you have an idea > > how things will look , but again the design is made to > > end up with a pretty boat . > > A nice design can look real ugly on a boat . > > On the water you just see above the waterline. > > > > Building a model in thin sheet wont take much time > > for a fine welder . > > Just for fun I posted a totaly different deck on Aaron's > > boat , does that looks that ugly or unreasonable ?? > > > > I am not sure , some may even like it . > > Live and learn......that's a good one :-) > > > > Take care and happy holidays to you to . > > > > Old Ben > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "tom" <tazmann@i...> wrote: > >> > >> Hello not mutch progress to report on the consruction, hard to  get > > motivated when its 37 degrees and foggy. I have ben leveling and > > pulling sides in to profile getting her ready for the decking.  Came > > up with a game plan for the deck profile, what Im going to do is  buy > > a few sheets of fiber board attach them end to end and loft the  deck > > profile full size then cut it. then I should have a perfect full  size > > pattern to work from. > >>  What have others use for patterns on deck ? > >> I think I am going to recut the rear of the chines if you look at > > the pictures Ive posted in origamiboats2 the chines are streight  to > > about 1/2 way back then they curve down about a 1/2"  whitch  causes a > > pretty notesable upward hook in the center. I should have built a > > scale model first would have ben easy to adjust then, thats what i > > get for being lazy and assuming the pattern was accurate. Live and > > learn > >> Take care and happy holidays > >> Tom > >> > >> > >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:  > > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > |
9844|9844|2005-12-12 03:06:27|Puck III|Re : BS 26|Tom , me again , I have your nice sketch opened in another window . Just a thought.......  There are litteraly thousands of mast for grab at this moment, for any price , where ? Louisiana , Florida , let's hope all those guys had insurance .  Would you happen to know a trucker [ I only met nice helpfull truckers when in the States ] so that you can have it brought to you for a bargain or as a mate's service........  Aint a usual aluminum mast [ if you cant find or build  a wooden one yourself ] an option to look into ??  Aluminum masts are not that bad , just look around in any marina, not having to build a steel pole sure would be a big saving , in precious time alone , you could be on the water sooner .  Old Ben|
9845|9845|2005-12-12 20:32:09|tazmannusa|testing mail|haveing trouble posting messages, just testing|
9846|9840|2005-12-12 20:52:01|tom|Re: BS 26|Old Ben  The 27 Im refering to is a Glen-L design, I would post picture but Im not sure of the copyright. Anyway checkout there website. http://www.glen-l.com/designs/sailboat2/jamescook.html  I like the looks of a gaff rig but I have never sailed a gaff rig,  The scetch of a mast I posted came out to heavy for the 26 its 4-1/2 pounds a foot for just a bare pole, double the weight of aluminum mast. Tom   ----- Original Message -----  From: "Puck III" <ben_azo@...> To: <origamiboats@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2005 8:48 PM Subject: [origamiboats] Re: BS 26   > Hi Tom , > > What 27ft design Tom ? please direct me to the pic > or post it in your album , for me to see . > > A bowsprit is an anoying thing , believe me , I > used several ones , retractables and other :-) > If you can do without , you'r better of....... > always a pain to enter a docking space........ > it has it use in certain applications but I > try to avoid it . > The same with a second mast.......,looks prettty > that's about all I know in favor. > We were just looking at deckhouse options,right? > > Balance a rig on a well balanced hull > aint that difficult , go for the rig with > the least to worry about for your use . > > Wasn't your idea to transport the boat or to > keep it on the trailor when not in use ? > > Did you ever considered a gaff......shorter spars, > a well designed peaked gaff can give some amazing > speed but one of the major advantages are that > your sails can be used longer , even worn out > a bit , you can peack the gaff some more , > tension the luff or give more fullnes to the main, > I like to play the robes and look at the speedo > to search for the best speed . > > Just my 2cents worth of opinion :-) > > Old Ben > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "tom" <tazmann@i...> wrote: >> >> Hello Old Ben >>  actualy youre picture doesnt look bad, Ive thought about doing > that myself, >> there is a 27ft design ive ben looking at the cabin and deck layout > with >> bowspirit that i realy like. >> very simple layout old style cabin with more cockpit and fordeck > space. just >> not sure of bowspirit and what would have to be done to keep rig > balanced? >> >> ----- Original Message -----  >> From: "Puck III" <ben_azo@h...> >> To: <origamiboats@yahoogroups.com> >> Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2005 5:03 PM >> Subject: [origamiboats] Re: BS 26 >> >> >> > Hi Tom , afther rain comes sunshine and afther cold comes warmth , >> > >> > I usualy make cardboard models , 100% from free cardboard >> > packaging residue . Than I stand back how the volume looks >> > on the hull . Later I pin window-silhouettes made out of >> > the same cardboard but in a different collor to see if >> > I am happy with the profile . >> > Nothing like 100% vieuw . >> > >> > I also like to play superimposing pics on the computer, >> > just simple photoshop , so at least you have an idea >> > how things will look , but again the design is made to >> > end up with a pretty boat . >> > A nice design can look real ugly on a boat . >> > On the water you just see above the waterline. >> > >> > Building a model in thin sheet wont take much time >> > for a fine welder . >> > Just for fun I posted a totaly different deck on Aaron's >> > boat , does that looks that ugly or unreasonable ?? >> > >> > I am not sure , some may even like it . >> > Live and learn......that's a good one :-) >> > >> > Take care and happy holidays to you to . >> > >> > Old Ben >> > >> > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "tom" <tazmann@i...> wrote: >> >> >> >> Hello not mutch progress to report on the consruction, hard to > get >> > motivated when its 37 degrees and foggy. I have ben leveling and >> > pulling sides in to profile getting her ready for the decking. > Came >> > up with a game plan for the deck profile, what Im going to do is > buy >> > a few sheets of fiber board attach them end to end and loft the > deck >> > profile full size then cut it. then I should have a perfect full > size >> > pattern to work from. >> >>  What have others use for patterns on deck ? >> >> I think I am going to recut the rear of the chines if you look at >> > the pictures Ive posted in origamiboats2 the chines are streight > to >> > about 1/2 way back then they curve down about a 1/2"  whitch > causes a >> > pretty notesable upward hook in the center. I should have built a >> > scale model first would have ben easy to adjust then, thats what i >> > get for being lazy and assuming the pattern was accurate. Live and >> > learn >> >> Take care and happy holidays >> >> Tom >> >> >> >> >> >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >> >> >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com >> > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: >> > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com >> > Yahoo! Groups Links >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:  > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > |
9847|7433|2005-12-12 21:04:52|khooper_fboats|Origamiboats Searchable Archive Updated|The searchable archive has been updated to current as of 12/12/05 and now contains 9,837 messages. This page features an intelligent search engine and there are no advertisements.  http://www.crazyface.net/origamiboats/index.html  Please bookmark this site. A link has been placed in the Links section of the Origamiboats Yahoo Groups web site if you should forget the link.  The archive is updated every two weeks. This message is posted approximately every six weeks.  Regards,  --Ken Hooper|
9848|9840|2005-12-12 22:47:24|a_admi|Re: BS 26|Hi Tom , I follow your posts with much attention , I like the 27' profile you posted , like Brent Swain's Design without the forward vieuw from within the cabin. I posted 4 pics in Origamiboats2 , me on my old 30' Dutch fisherman type longkeel boat. Mild steel hull , wooden cabin ( I still like the looks , but I never again want the varnish work ),her wooden mast was replaced by an aluminium one . I send my payment to Brent Swain 5 december , hoping to receive the plans for Christmas , I await Brent Swain's confirmation mail any day now. I have made many interior arangement plans allready , I would love to turn the BS 26 into a nice little ship. Looking forward to see more pics in your album. Season's greetings from Gent Belgium   --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "tom" <tazmann@i...> wrote: > > Old Ben >  The 27 Im refering to is a Glen-L design, I would post picture but  Im not > sure of the copyright. Anyway checkout there website. > http://www.glen-l.com/designs/sailboat2/jamescook.html >  I like the looks of a gaff rig but I have never sailed a gaff rig, >  The scetch of a mast I posted came out to heavy for the 26 its 4- 1/2 pounds > a foot for just a bare pole, double the weight of aluminum mast. > Tom >  > ----- Original Message -----  > From: "Puck III" <ben_azo@h...> > To: <origamiboats@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2005 8:48 PM > Subject: [origamiboats] Re: BS 26 >  >  > > Hi Tom , > > > > What 27ft design Tom ? please direct me to the pic > > or post it in your album , for me to see . > > > > A bowsprit is an anoying thing , believe me , I > > used several ones , retractables and other :-) > > If you can do without , you'r better of....... > > always a pain to enter a docking space........ > > it has it use in certain applications but I > > try to avoid it . > > The same with a second mast.......,looks prettty > > that's about all I know in favor. > > We were just looking at deckhouse options,right? > > > > Balance a rig on a well balanced hull > > aint that difficult , go for the rig with > > the least to worry about for your use . > > > > Wasn't your idea to transport the boat or to > > keep it on the trailor when not in use ? > > > > Did you ever considered a gaff......shorter spars, > > a well designed peaked gaff can give some amazing > > speed but one of the major advantages are that > > your sails can be used longer , even worn out > > a bit , you can peack the gaff some more , > > tension the luff or give more fullnes to the main, > > I like to play the robes and look at the speedo > > to search for the best speed . > > > > Just my 2cents worth of opinion :-) > > > > Old Ben > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "tom" <tazmann@i...> wrote: > >> > >> Hello Old Ben > >>  actualy youre picture doesnt look bad, Ive thought about doing > > that myself, > >> there is a 27ft design ive ben looking at the cabin and deck  layout > > with > >> bowspirit that i realy like. > >> very simple layout old style cabin with more cockpit and fordeck > > space. just > >> not sure of bowspirit and what would have to be done to keep rig > > balanced? > >> > >> ----- Original Message -----  > >> From: "Puck III" <ben_azo@h...> > >> To: <origamiboats@yahoogroups.com> > >> Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2005 5:03 PM > >> Subject: [origamiboats] Re: BS 26 > >> > >> > >> > Hi Tom , afther rain comes sunshine and afther cold comes  warmth , > >> > > >> > I usualy make cardboard models , 100% from free cardboard > >> > packaging residue . Than I stand back how the volume looks > >> > on the hull . Later I pin window-silhouettes made out of > >> > the same cardboard but in a different collor to see if > >> > I am happy with the profile . > >> > Nothing like 100% vieuw . > >> > > >> > I also like to play superimposing pics on the computer, > >> > just simple photoshop , so at least you have an idea > >> > how things will look , but again the design is made to > >> > end up with a pretty boat . > >> > A nice design can look real ugly on a boat . > >> > On the water you just see above the waterline. > >> > > >> > Building a model in thin sheet wont take much time > >> > for a fine welder . > >> > Just for fun I posted a totaly different deck on Aaron's > >> > boat , does that looks that ugly or unreasonable ?? > >> > > >> > I am not sure , some may even like it . > >> > Live and learn......that's a good one :-) > >> > > >> > Take care and happy holidays to you to . > >> > > >> > Old Ben > >> > > >> > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "tom" <tazmann@i...>  wrote: > >> >> > >> >> Hello not mutch progress to report on the consruction, hard to > > get > >> > motivated when its 37 degrees and foggy. I have ben leveling  and > >> > pulling sides in to profile getting her ready for the decking. > > Came > >> > up with a game plan for the deck profile, what Im going to do  is > > buy > >> > a few sheets of fiber board attach them end to end and loft the > > deck > >> > profile full size then cut it. then I should have a perfect  full > > size > >> > pattern to work from. > >> >>  What have others use for patterns on deck ? > >> >> I think I am going to recut the rear of the chines if you  look at > >> > the pictures Ive posted in origamiboats2 the chines are  streight > > to > >> > about 1/2 way back then they curve down about a 1/2"  whitch > > causes a > >> > pretty notesable upward hook in the center. I should have  built a > >> > scale model first would have ben easy to adjust then, thats  what i > >> > get for being lazy and assuming the pattern was accurate. Live  and > >> > learn > >> >> Take care and happy holidays > >> >> Tom > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >> >> > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > >> > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > >> > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > >> > Yahoo! Groups Links > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:  > > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > |
9849|9840|2005-12-13 02:12:15|Puck III|Re: BS 26|Hi Tom , I posted 2 pics for you to look at in the Gaff Folder in Origamiboats2 : http://photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats2/lst?.dir=/Gaff&.src =gr       [ wondering if the direct Link works ] I like the gaff rig , for having used it for many years , outsailing ofthen bermudian riged boats , but speed depends on many other factors than rig alone . I do not expect the BS 26 to be a speedster , cause she is a displacement cruising boat , trying to turn the best speed out of that hull aint wrong :-)  I must have been correct with my post about the mast , I am happy you calculated the weight difference yourself. Sure you must be able to find a good second hand mast , even consider part of a much taller broken mast. Less weight , less work , sooner sailing!!!  See Admi's previous post and pics , even if the wooden boom on the alu mast looks a bit silly :-)  The Glen-L deck design is more or less the same as the BS original design with the pilothouse removed .  That's a question of personal choice .  BUT , yes yes yes there are always BUT's with boats , take into acount the design of the superstructures , and especialy the volumes , where and how they are placed determine A LOT , the stability you want the boat to retain .  Do you want the boat to be selfrighting ? Could be an added value , in case you want to sell the boat later . Some will argue [ most of the time , cause the boats they propose are not selfrighting ] you dont realy need it . I personaly think you sure will be happy to have it, the day you need it , hoping that day never comes :-)  You do not need a keel or keels to have a selfrighting boat, I will post a pic or two in the Gaff Folder to show you .  Everybody is free to as he please , off course :-)  Just some thoughts from an Old Gaffer :-)   --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "tom" <tazmann@i...> wrote: > > Old Ben >  The 27 Im refering to is a Glen-L design, I would post picture but  Im not > sure of the copyright. Anyway checkout there website. > http://www.glen-l.com/designs/sailboat2/jamescook.html >  I like the looks of a gaff rig but I have never sailed a gaff rig, >  The scetch of a mast I posted came out to heavy for the 26 its 4- 1/2 pounds > a foot for just a bare pole, double the weight of aluminum mast. > Tom >  > ----- Original Message -----  > From: "Puck III" <ben_azo@h...> > To: <origamiboats@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2005 8:48 PM > Subject: [origamiboats] Re: BS 26 >  >  > > Hi Tom , > > > > What 27ft design Tom ? please direct me to the pic > > or post it in your album , for me to see . > > > > A bowsprit is an anoying thing , believe me , I > > used several ones , retractables and other :-) > > If you can do without , you'r better of....... > > always a pain to enter a docking space........ > > it has it use in certain applications but I > > try to avoid it . > > The same with a second mast.......,looks prettty > > that's about all I know in favor. > > We were just looking at deckhouse options,right? > > > > Balance a rig on a well balanced hull > > aint that difficult , go for the rig with > > the least to worry about for your use . > > > > Wasn't your idea to transport the boat or to > > keep it on the trailor when not in use ? > > > > Did you ever considered a gaff......shorter spars, > > a well designed peaked gaff can give some amazing > > speed but one of the major advantages are that > > your sails can be used longer , even worn out > > a bit , you can peack the gaff some more , > > tension the luff or give more fullnes to the main, > > I like to play the robes and look at the speedo > > to search for the best speed . > > > > Just my 2cents worth of opinion :-) > > > > Old Ben > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "tom" <tazmann@i...> wrote: > >> > >> Hello Old Ben > >>  actualy youre picture doesnt look bad, Ive thought about doing > > that myself, > >> there is a 27ft design ive ben looking at the cabin and deck  layout > > with > >> bowspirit that i realy like. > >> very simple layout old style cabin with more cockpit and fordeck > > space. just > >> not sure of bowspirit and what would have to be done to keep rig > > balanced? > >> > >> ----- Original Message -----  > >> From: "Puck III" <ben_azo@h...> > >> To: <origamiboats@yahoogroups.com> > >> Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2005 5:03 PM > >> Subject: [origamiboats] Re: BS 26 > >> > >> > >> > Hi Tom , afther rain comes sunshine and afther cold comes  warmth , > >> > > >> > I usualy make cardboard models , 100% from free cardboard > >> > packaging residue . Than I stand back how the volume looks > >> > on the hull . Later I pin window-silhouettes made out of > >> > the same cardboard but in a different collor to see if > >> > I am happy with the profile . > >> > Nothing like 100% vieuw . > >> > > >> > I also like to play superimposing pics on the computer, > >> > just simple photoshop , so at least you have an idea > >> > how things will look , but again the design is made to > >> > end up with a pretty boat . > >> > A nice design can look real ugly on a boat . > >> > On the water you just see above the waterline. > >> > > >> > Building a model in thin sheet wont take much time > >> > for a fine welder . > >> > Just for fun I posted a totaly different deck on Aaron's > >> > boat , does that looks that ugly or unreasonable ?? > >> > > >> > I am not sure , some may even like it . > >> > Live and learn......that's a good one :-) > >> > > >> > Take care and happy holidays to you to . > >> > > >> > Old Ben > >> > > >> > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "tom" <tazmann@i...>  wrote: > >> >> > >> >> Hello not mutch progress to report on the consruction, hard to > > get > >> > motivated when its 37 degrees and foggy. I have ben leveling  and > >> > pulling sides in to profile getting her ready for the decking. > > Came > >> > up with a game plan for the deck profile, what Im going to do  is > > buy > >> > a few sheets of fiber board attach them end to end and loft the > > deck > >> > profile full size then cut it. then I should have a perfect  full > > size > >> > pattern to work from. > >> >>  What have others use for patterns on deck ? > >> >> I think I am going to recut the rear of the chines if you  look at > >> > the pictures Ive posted in origamiboats2 the chines are  streight > > to > >> > about 1/2 way back then they curve down about a 1/2"  whitch > > causes a > >> > pretty notesable upward hook in the center. I should have  built a > >> > scale model first would have ben easy to adjust then, thats  what i > >> > get for being lazy and assuming the pattern was accurate. Live  and > >> > learn > >> >> Take care and happy holidays > >> >> Tom > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >> >> > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > >> > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > >> > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > >> > Yahoo! Groups Links > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:  > > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > |
9850|9850|2005-12-13 06:43:45|Puck III|(no subject)|A Fantastic Repost From: "inventodd1" <inventodd1@...>  Date: Tue Dec 13, 2005   Subject: Some times we just half to laugh at our selfs.        Q: How many forum members does it takes to change a light bulb?  1 to change the light bulb and to post that the light bulb has been changed 14 to share similar experiences of changing light bulbs and how the light bulb could have been changed differently 7 to caution about the dangers of changing light bulbs 1 to move it to the Lighting section 2 to argue then move it to the Electricals section 7 to point out spelling/grammar errors in posts about changing light bulbs 5 to flame the spell checkers 3 to correct spelling/grammar flames 6 to argue over whether it's "lightbulb" or "light bulb" ... another 6 to condemn those 6 as stupid 3 standards zealots to point out that light bulbs have been deprecated in the LB 2.1 spec 1 to call upon everybody to ignore this deprecation 2 industry professionals to inform the group that the proper term is "lamp" 15 know-it-alls who claim they were in the industry, and that "light bulb" is perfectly correct 19 to post that this forum is not about light bulbs and to please take this discussion to a lightbulb forum 11 to defend the posting to this forum saying that we all use light bulbs and therefore the posts are relevant to this forum 36 to debate which method of changing light bulbs is superior, where to buy the best light bulbs, what brand of light bulbs work best for this technique and what brands are faulty 7 to post URL's where one can see examples of different light bulbs 4 to post that the URL's were posted incorrectly and then post the corrected URL's 3 to post about links they found from the URL's that are relevant to this group which makes light bulbs relevant to this group 13 to link all posts to date, quote them in their entirety including all headers and signatures, and add "Me too" 5 to post to the group that they will no longer post because they cannot handle the light bulb controversy 4 to say "didn't we go through this already a short time ago?" 13 to say "do a Google search on light bulbs before posting questions about light bulbs" 1 forum lurker to respond to the original post 6 months from now and start it all over again.  Happy holidays everyone. :)|
9851|9850|2005-12-13 07:36:24|cirejay|(no subject)|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III" <ben_azo@h...> wrote:  > > A Fantastic Repost From: "inventodd1" <inventodd1@>  > Date: Tue Dec 13, 2005   > Subject: Some times we just half to laugh at our selfs.    >    >  > Q: How many forum members does it takes to change a light bulb?   LOL.  Yes, Happy holidays everyone.  eric S/V Nebaras  PS: Now, if one used LED's.............. :-)|
9852|9840|2005-12-13 12:09:26|tom|Re: BS 26|Hello again Old Ben  As far as the mast I was going by what a engineer had told me years ago on  the weight and construction, The construction part works but the weight is  not even close to aluminum. It would be nice if you could use steel mast  just for the fact of getting rid of dissimular metals, steel, stainless  steel, and aluminum all connected together.  Looking at the picture you posted on self righting ability, wouldnt the sea conditions be a big factor allso? Cant see how you could get  inverted in flat seas short of loosing keel. If a big wave hit you hard  enough to roll the the boat wouldnt the next wave roll you upright (  hopefully I never have to find out the hard way ). If I did change the cabin  I dont think it would be mutch different the whole cabin is a little taller  than the trunk cabin the weight about the same and the volume should be  about the same, If I am miscalulating here let me know.  Gaff rigged, I think I would have to sail a couple gaff rigs before I could  make the desission to own one and all the racing Ive done, never seen one on  the race coarse. Tom  ----- Original Message -----  From: "Puck III" <ben_azo@...> To: <origamiboats@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, December 12, 2005 11:11 PM Subject: [origamiboats] Re: BS 26   > Hi Tom , I posted 2 pics for you to look at in the Gaff Folder > in Origamiboats2 : > http://photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats2/lst?.dir=/Gaff&.src > =gr       [ wondering if the direct Link works ] > I like the gaff rig , for having used it for many years , > outsailing ofthen bermudian riged boats , but speed depends > on many other factors than rig alone . > I do not expect the BS 26 to be a speedster , > cause she is a displacement cruising boat , > trying to turn the best speed out of that hull aint wrong :-) > > I must have been correct with my post about the mast , > I am happy you calculated the weight difference yourself. > Sure you must be able to find a good second hand mast , > even consider part of a much taller broken mast. > Less weight , less work , sooner sailing!!! > > See Admi's previous post and pics , even if the wooden boom > on the alu mast looks a bit silly :-) > > The Glen-L deck design is more or less the same as the > BS original design with the pilothouse removed . > > That's a question of personal choice . > > BUT , yes yes yes there are always BUT's with boats , > take into acount the design of the superstructures , > and especialy the volumes , where and how they are > placed determine A LOT , the stability you want the > boat to retain . > > Do you want the boat to be selfrighting ? > Could be an added value , in case you want to sell > the boat later . Some will argue [ most of the time , > cause the boats they propose are not selfrighting ] > you dont realy need it . > I personaly think you sure will be happy to have it, > the day you need it , hoping that day never comes :-) > > You do not need a keel or keels to have a selfrighting boat, > I will post a pic or two in the Gaff Folder to show you . > > Everybody is free to as he please , off course :-) > > Just some thoughts from an Old Gaffer :-) > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "tom" <tazmann@i...> wrote: >> >> Old Ben >>  The 27 Im refering to is a Glen-L design, I would post picture but > Im not >> sure of the copyright. Anyway checkout there website. >> http://www.glen-l.com/designs/sailboat2/jamescook.html >>  I like the looks of a gaff rig but I have never sailed a gaff rig, >>  The scetch of a mast I posted came out to heavy for the 26 its 4- > 1/2 pounds >> a foot for just a bare pole, double the weight of aluminum mast. >> Tom >> >> ----- Original Message -----  >> From: "Puck III" <ben_azo@h...> >> To: <origamiboats@yahoogroups.com> >> Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2005 8:48 PM >> Subject: [origamiboats] Re: BS 26 >> >> >> > Hi Tom , >> > >> > What 27ft design Tom ? please direct me to the pic >> > or post it in your album , for me to see . >> > >> > A bowsprit is an anoying thing , believe me , I >> > used several ones , retractables and other :-) >> > If you can do without , you'r better of....... >> > always a pain to enter a docking space........ >> > it has it use in certain applications but I >> > try to avoid it . >> > The same with a second mast.......,looks prettty >> > that's about all I know in favor. >> > We were just looking at deckhouse options,right? >> > >> > Balance a rig on a well balanced hull >> > aint that difficult , go for the rig with >> > the least to worry about for your use . >> > >> > Wasn't your idea to transport the boat or to >> > keep it on the trailor when not in use ? >> > >> > Did you ever considered a gaff......shorter spars, >> > a well designed peaked gaff can give some amazing >> > speed but one of the major advantages are that >> > your sails can be used longer , even worn out >> > a bit , you can peack the gaff some more , >> > tension the luff or give more fullnes to the main, >> > I like to play the robes and look at the speedo >> > to search for the best speed . >> > >> > Just my 2cents worth of opinion :-) >> > >> > Old Ben >> > >> > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "tom" <tazmann@i...> wrote: >> >> >> >> Hello Old Ben >> >>  actualy youre picture doesnt look bad, Ive thought about doing >> > that myself, >> >> there is a 27ft design ive ben looking at the cabin and deck > layout >> > with >> >> bowspirit that i realy like. >> >> very simple layout old style cabin with more cockpit and fordeck >> > space. just >> >> not sure of bowspirit and what would have to be done to keep rig >> > balanced? >> >> >> >> ----- Original Message -----  >> >> From: "Puck III" <ben_azo@h...> >> >> To: <origamiboats@yahoogroups.com> >> >> Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2005 5:03 PM >> >> Subject: [origamiboats] Re: BS 26 >> >> >> >> >> >> > Hi Tom , afther rain comes sunshine and afther cold comes > warmth , >> >> > >> >> > I usualy make cardboard models , 100% from free cardboard >> >> > packaging residue . Than I stand back how the volume looks >> >> > on the hull . Later I pin window-silhouettes made out of >> >> > the same cardboard but in a different collor to see if >> >> > I am happy with the profile . >> >> > Nothing like 100% vieuw . >> >> > >> >> > I also like to play superimposing pics on the computer, >> >> > just simple photoshop , so at least you have an idea >> >> > how things will look , but again the design is made to >> >> > end up with a pretty boat . >> >> > A nice design can look real ugly on a boat . >> >> > On the water you just see above the waterline. >> >> > >> >> > Building a model in thin sheet wont take much time >> >> > for a fine welder . >> >> > Just for fun I posted a totaly different deck on Aaron's >> >> > boat , does that looks that ugly or unreasonable ?? >> >> > >> >> > I am not sure , some may even like it . >> >> > Live and learn......that's a good one :-) >> >> > >> >> > Take care and happy holidays to you to . >> >> > >> >> > Old Ben >> >> > >> >> > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "tom" <tazmann@i...> > wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >> Hello not mutch progress to report on the consruction, hard to >> > get >> >> > motivated when its 37 degrees and foggy. I have ben leveling > and >> >> > pulling sides in to profile getting her ready for the decking. >> > Came >> >> > up with a game plan for the deck profile, what Im going to do > is >> > buy >> >> > a few sheets of fiber board attach them end to end and loft the >> > deck >> >> > profile full size then cut it. then I should have a perfect > full >> > size >> >> > pattern to work from. >> >> >>  What have others use for patterns on deck ? >> >> >> I think I am going to recut the rear of the chines if you > look at >> >> > the pictures Ive posted in origamiboats2 the chines are > streight >> > to >> >> > about 1/2 way back then they curve down about a 1/2"  whitch >> > causes a >> >> > pretty notesable upward hook in the center. I should have > built a >> >> > scale model first would have ben easy to adjust then, thats > what i >> >> > get for being lazy and assuming the pattern was accurate. Live > and >> >> > learn >> >> >> Take care and happy holidays >> >> >> Tom >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com >> >> > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: >> >> > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com >> >> > Yahoo! Groups Links >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com >> > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: >> > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com >> > Yahoo! Groups Links >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:  > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > |
9853|9853|2005-12-13 13:11:34|jfpacuas|7024 rod longevity|HI folks,  It seems I can only find 7024 rod in 50 lb boxes. Now, the majority of  my boat building will start in about 1+ years although I am currently  building parts/pieces and spending some time scrounging. I don't have  any fancy way to keep rod, but the environment here is fairly dry.   Does 7024 keep well? I'd like to start using it on some of my smaller  projects, but I don't want to keep buying it by the 50 lb bushell.  Cheers  paul|
9854|9853|2005-12-13 13:24:16|Denis Buggy|Re: 7024 rod longevity|we use an old  but airtight fridge with a small bulb lighting for rod storage you can usually pick them up for nothing denis     ----- Original Message -----    From: jfpacuas    To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com    Sent: Tuesday, December 13, 2005 6:10 PM   Subject: [origamiboats] 7024 rod longevity     HI folks,    It seems I can only find 7024 rod in 50 lb boxes. Now, the majority of    my boat building will start in about 1+ years although I am currently    building parts/pieces and spending some time scrounging. I don't have    any fancy way to keep rod, but the environment here is fairly dry.     Does 7024 keep well? I'd like to start using it on some of my smaller    projects, but I don't want to keep buying it by the 50 lb bushell.    Cheers    paul         To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com   To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com     ------------------------------------------------------------------------------   YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS       a..  Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web.            b..  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:      origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com            c..  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
9855|9853|2005-12-13 17:40:45|Wesley Cox|Re: 7024 rod longevity|I don't use 7024, mostly 6011 or 6010 and ocassionally 6013.  I store  mine in the plastic containers with heavy rubber gasket screw on lids,  made for rods.  They hold just about 5 lbs. each.  I have rods 2-3 years  old that are still fine as far as I can tell.  The containers are up to  10 years old and seem good as new.  I haven't x-rayed any welds, but  there's no apparent problem looking at the arc or puddle or with the  results.   I bought 50 lbs. of 7018 for a job once then the design changed and I  was stuck with it.  It's a low hydrogen rod, very hygroscopic.  I kept  it double wrapped in plastic for 3 years.  When I sold it (cheap) last  summer, there's was no apparent problem with it, though I recommended to  the guy he heat it in a 300 degree oven for a few hours before using it  on anything but learning (he was a newbie).  jfpacuas wrote:   >HI folks, > >It seems I can only find 7024 rod in 50 lb boxes. Now, the majority of  >my boat building will start in about 1+ years although I am currently  >building parts/pieces and spending some time scrounging. I don't have  >any fancy way to keep rod, but the environment here is fairly dry.  > >Does 7024 keep well? I'd like to start using it on some of my smaller  >projects, but I don't want to keep buying it by the 50 lb bushell. > >Cheers > >paul > > > > > > > >To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com >To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com  >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > >  > > > >   > |
9856|9853|2005-12-13 17:47:36|Alex Christie|Re: 7024 rod longevity|I think 7024 is pretty tough, and stores easily, and when you do start   using it you'll go through that 50 lbs pretty fast because 7024 rods  get gobbled easily.  They are high heat and are called "Jet rods"  around here for their ability to "jet" lots of material very fast onto  the work surface.  It felt like the rods consume almost twice as fast  as other rods, though I am sure I am exaggerating, as all rods seems to  get gobbled up fast regardless of type!  Nothing worse than running out  of rod on a good welding day!  Alex|
9857|9857|2005-12-13 19:22:04|sv_palette|re boat paint|Among commercial boat yards Ameron Primer 235 is considered a no brainer for metal boats both steel and aluminum . It will stick to most anything inside or out . This primer is hands down fool proof providing you prep your surface properly . Nothing will stick if you are careless at the prep stage . Ameron has top coat paints as well but they are not so good hence yards will put another product such as " International " on as the top coat . Flows better than others and very durable . There is a large commercial boat repair yard on Mitchell Island ,can`t recall the name . They only work on big  metal boats , won`t even talk to you if your boat is not metal . They use Ameron 235 Primer and International . These are paints with a proven track record , years in harsh conditions . This is not an area I would experiment with and I would never take the advice of a salesman. I always look to the work boat marine industry for advice etc on the basics . Hope this helps .|
9858|9840|2005-12-13 21:28:35|tom|Re: BS 26|Hello Gent  Took a look at your 30' looks nice, Did you build her? I agree varnish looks good but its to much work keeping it up. We may have  to start up an origami3 site the origami2 photo's file is allmost full and I  hope youre going to post some pictures when you get started. progress for me  is a little slow right now real buisy at work and cold weather. Take care Tom  ----- Original Message -----  From: "a_admi" <a_admi@...> To: <origamiboats@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, December 12, 2005 7:46 PM Subject: [origamiboats] Re: BS 26   > Hi Tom , I follow your posts with much attention , > I like the 27' profile you posted , like Brent Swain's Design > without the forward vieuw from within the cabin. > I posted 4 pics in Origamiboats2 , me on my old 30' Dutch > fisherman type longkeel boat. > Mild steel hull , wooden cabin ( I still like the looks , > but I never again want the varnish work ),her wooden mast > was replaced by an aluminium one . > I send my payment to Brent Swain 5 december , > hoping to receive the plans for Christmas , > I await Brent Swain's confirmation mail any day now. > I have made many interior arangement plans allready , > I would love to turn the BS 26 into a nice little ship. > Looking forward to see more pics in your album. > Season's greetings from Gent Belgium > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "tom" <tazmann@i...> wrote: >> >> Old Ben >>  The 27 Im refering to is a Glen-L design, I would post picture but > Im not >> sure of the copyright. Anyway checkout there website. >> http://www.glen-l.com/designs/sailboat2/jamescook.html >>  I like the looks of a gaff rig but I have never sailed a gaff rig, >>  The scetch of a mast I posted came out to heavy for the 26 its 4- > 1/2 pounds >> a foot for just a bare pole, double the weight of aluminum mast. >> Tom >> >> ----- Original Message -----  >> From: "Puck III" <ben_azo@h...> >> To: <origamiboats@yahoogroups.com> >> Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2005 8:48 PM >> Subject: [origamiboats] Re: BS 26 >> >> >> > Hi Tom , >> > >> > What 27ft design Tom ? please direct me to the pic >> > or post it in your album , for me to see . >> > >> > A bowsprit is an anoying thing , believe me , I >> > used several ones , retractables and other :-) >> > If you can do without , you'r better of....... >> > always a pain to enter a docking space........ >> > it has it use in certain applications but I >> > try to avoid it . >> > The same with a second mast.......,looks prettty >> > that's about all I know in favor. >> > We were just looking at deckhouse options,right? >> > >> > Balance a rig on a well balanced hull >> > aint that difficult , go for the rig with >> > the least to worry about for your use . >> > >> > Wasn't your idea to transport the boat or to >> > keep it on the trailor when not in use ? >> > >> > Did you ever considered a gaff......shorter spars, >> > a well designed peaked gaff can give some amazing >> > speed but one of the major advantages are that >> > your sails can be used longer , even worn out >> > a bit , you can peack the gaff some more , >> > tension the luff or give more fullnes to the main, >> > I like to play the robes and look at the speedo >> > to search for the best speed . >> > >> > Just my 2cents worth of opinion :-) >> > >> > |
9859|9840|2005-12-14 00:22:19|a_admi|Re: BS 26|Hi Tom , I did not build the boat myself , neither do I plan to self build the BS 26 , it will be build by the best welders available , cause I am no welder , any female welders in the US ?  I plan to sail next summer . I also plan taking pics and eventualy even  an ebook , see :  http://www.mkt-info.com/fairhavens/  My boat pics were only for you to see , I allready took them away not to take space .  The moderator could consider a origami26 file for the 26 and the small boats , the number of members would show the number of people with a real interest in a transportable boat or dinghy .  I understand our small boat stuff is not interesting for the larger boat builders , could be interesting for starters .  I hope to see some more pics of Aaron's boat . A real little ship in my eyes.  Regards from Gent :-)    --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "tom" <tazmann@i...> wrote: > > Hello Gent >  Took a look at your 30' looks nice, Did you build her? > I agree varnish looks good but its to much work keeping it up. We  may have  > to start up an origami3 site the origami2 photo's file is allmost  full and I  > hope youre going to post some pictures when you get started.  progress for me  > is a little slow right now real buisy at work and cold weather. > Take care > Tom > ----- Original Message -----  > From: "a_admi" <a_admi@y...> > To: <origamiboats@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Monday, December 12, 2005 7:46 PM > Subject: [origamiboats] Re: BS 26 >  >  > > Hi Tom , I follow your posts with much attention , > > I like the 27' profile you posted , like Brent Swain's Design > > without the forward vieuw from within the cabin. > > I posted 4 pics in Origamiboats2 , me on my old 30' Dutch > > fisherman type longkeel boat. > > Mild steel hull , wooden cabin ( I still like the looks , > > but I never again want the varnish work ),her wooden mast > > was replaced by an aluminium one . > > I send my payment to Brent Swain 5 december , > > hoping to receive the plans for Christmas , > > I await Brent Swain's confirmation mail any day now. > > I have made many interior arangement plans allready , > > I would love to turn the BS 26 into a nice little ship. > > Looking forward to see more pics in your album. > > Season's greetings from Gent Belgium > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "tom" <tazmann@i...> wrote: > >> > >> Old Ben > >>  The 27 Im refering to is a Glen-L design, I would post picture  but > > Im not > >> sure of the copyright. Anyway checkout there website. > >> http://www.glen-l.com/designs/sailboat2/jamescook.html > >>  I like the looks of a gaff rig but I have never sailed a gaff  rig, > >>  The scetch of a mast I posted came out to heavy for the 26 its  4- > > 1/2 pounds > >> a foot for just a bare pole, double the weight of aluminum mast. > >> Tom > >> > >> ----- Original Message -----  > >> From: "Puck III" <ben_azo@h...> > >> To: <origamiboats@yahoogroups.com> > >> Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2005 8:48 PM > >> Subject: [origamiboats] Re: BS 26 > >> > >> > >> > Hi Tom , > >> > > >> > What 27ft design Tom ? please direct me to the pic > >> > or post it in your album , for me to see . > >> > > >> > A bowsprit is an anoying thing , believe me , I > >> > used several ones , retractables and other :-) > >> > If you can do without , you'r better of....... > >> > always a pain to enter a docking space........ > >> > it has it use in certain applications but I > >> > try to avoid it . > >> > The same with a second mast.......,looks prettty > >> > that's about all I know in favor. > >> > We were just looking at deckhouse options,right? > >> > > >> > Balance a rig on a well balanced hull > >> > aint that difficult , go for the rig with > >> > the least to worry about for your use . > >> > > >> > Wasn't your idea to transport the boat or to > >> > keep it on the trailor when not in use ? > >> > > >> > Did you ever considered a gaff......shorter spars, > >> > a well designed peaked gaff can give some amazing > >> > speed but one of the major advantages are that > >> > your sails can be used longer , even worn out > >> > a bit , you can peack the gaff some more , > >> > tension the luff or give more fullnes to the main, > >> > I like to play the robes and look at the speedo > >> > to search for the best speed . > >> > > >> > Just my 2cents worth of opinion :-) > >> > > >> > > |
9860|9860|2005-12-14 03:03:14|Puck III|Photos - Running out of space -|Hi Moderator , hi All , realy sorry all , I posted to many pics and left them  much to long .  Tom's latest Post : >We may have to start up an origami3 site   >the origami2 photo's file is allmost full and I hope youre going to  >post some pictures when you get started.   and the answer that followed : From: "a_admi" <a_admi@...>  Date: Wed Dec 14, 2005  6:22 am  ....................... I plan to sail next summer . I also plan taking pics and eventualy even an ebook , see : http://www.mkt-info.com/fairhavens/  My boat pics were only for you to see , I allready took them away not to take space .  The moderator could consider a origami26 file for the 26 and the small boats , the number of members would show the number of people with a real interest in a transportable boat or dinghy .  I understand our small boat stuff is not interesting for the larger boat builders , could be interesting for starters .  I hope to see some more pics of Aaron's boat . A real little ship in my eyes.  Regards from Gent :-)   made me realise my mistake so I removed a lot of stuff.  On the other hand , the results until today from  a survey poll in another Boating Yahoo Group are  "Photos - Running out of space in the Group"  Remove unwanted Photos.  7%    Remove non boat Photos.      21%  Move the photos to a separate web page.    71%   These results show people like to see a relevant pic .  I like the idea of looking at dinghy options .  Offline I received some questions , cause many people tend  not to ask in here when interested in a GRP dinghy .  How does one handle that Topic ??? Keeping the posts and pics here ?? in a special file ?? Or take that Topic to a " dinghy or related Group " and refer in here to over there ??  Just a repost I posted over there :  > > > > Hi All , just some thoughts as a proposal : > > > > 3 or more well separated photofiles to store > > > > - Boat_file1 : General Info Larger boats > > > > - Boat_file2 : Trailorable and smaller boats > > > > - Boat_file3 : Boat Building Materials > > > > - Boat_file4 : Miscalanous > > [ stuff about - engines - wheels :-) > > > > With the Proa_file system as an example > > but with well differentiated areas from the start. > > > > I like to peak here and there , > > one can easely post a direct link in a post . > > If every member agrees to transfer pics he posted > > earlyer , the Job should be easely cleared . > > > > I propose to leave the original photofile for > > the sole use of X and the moderators . > > > > I posted a suggestion for a new dinghy in another > > Group , the Group can be very interesting > > with its building method , if there is an interest . > > > > Worth considering a special > > -Boat_file5 : Dinghy File ???? > > > > I can't realy answer , just curious what you All > > think about the idea. > > Good Groups and Interesting People are a Premium > > these days . > > > > Old Ben |
9861|9860|2005-12-14 03:26:37|Wesley Cox|Re: Photos - Running out of space -|I, for one, think dinghy discussion and photos are relevant.  It's part  of the whole origami boat package, especially if the dinghy is also  origami.  I'm contemplating an aluminum origami kayak, myself.  Puck III wrote:   >Hi Moderator , hi All , >realy sorry all , I posted to many pics and left them  >much to long . > >Tom's latest Post : >We may have to start up an origami3 site  >   > >>the origami2 photo's file is allmost full and I hope youre going to  >>post some pictures when you get started. >>     >> > >and the answer that followed : From: "a_admi" <a_admi@...>  >Date: Wed Dec 14, 2005  6:22 am  >....................... >I plan to sail next summer . >I also plan taking pics and eventualy even >an ebook , see : http://www.mkt-info.com/fairhavens/ > >My boat pics were only for you to see , >I allready took them away not to take space . > >The moderator could consider a origami26 file >for the 26 and the small boats , the number >of members would show the number of people with >a real interest in a transportable boat or dinghy . > >I understand our small boat stuff is not interesting >for the larger boat builders , could be interesting >for starters . > >I hope to see some more pics of Aaron's boat . >A real little ship in my eyes. > >Regards from Gent :-)  > >made me realise my mistake so I removed a lot of stuff. > >On the other hand , the results until today from  >a survey poll in another Boating Yahoo Group are > >"Photos - Running out of space in the Group" > >Remove unwanted Photos.  7%    >Remove non boat Photos.      21%  >Move the photos to a separate web page.    71%  > >These results show people like to see a relevant pic . > >I like the idea of looking at dinghy options . > >Offline I received some questions , cause many people tend  >not to ask in here when interested in a GRP dinghy . > >How does one handle that Topic ??? >Keeping the posts and pics here ?? in a special file ?? >Or take that Topic to a " dinghy or related Group " >and refer in here to over there ?? > >Just a repost I posted over there : >   > >>>Hi All , just some thoughts as a proposal : >>> >>>3 or more well separated photofiles to store >>> >>>- Boat_file1 : General Info Larger boats >>> >>>- Boat_file2 : Trailorable and smaller boats >>> >>>- Boat_file3 : Boat Building Materials >>> >>>- Boat_file4 : Miscalanous >>>[ stuff about - engines - wheels :-) >>> >>>With the Proa_file system as an example >>>but with well differentiated areas from the start. >>> >>>I like to peak here and there , >>>one can easely post a direct link in a post . >>>If every member agrees to transfer pics he posted >>>earlyer , the Job should be easely cleared . >>> >>>I propose to leave the original photofile for >>>the sole use of X and the moderators . >>> >>>I posted a suggestion for a new dinghy in another >>>Group , the Group can be very interesting >>>with its building method , if there is an interest . >>> >>>Worth considering a special >>>-Boat_file5 : Dinghy File ???? >>> >>>I can't realy answer , just curious what you All >>>think about the idea. >>>Good Groups and Interesting People are a Premium >>>these days . >>> >>>Old Ben >>>       >>> > > > > > > > > >To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com >To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com  >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > >  > > > > >   > |
9862|9860|2005-12-14 04:33:52|Gerd|Re: Photos - Running out of space -|I think that it does not make much sense to upload pictures that are  already elsewhere on the web - taking a picture from another site and  then to upload it to our file-sections is nonsense and really just  redundant info and creates a lot of noise and space problems.   It is in general much better to just link to the pages where these  images are originally, because  - no copyright problems - not everybody is happy about pics being  copied and reproduced, often out of context and without naming the  source - usually there is more that just one picture plus a lot of tectual  information on their site, and they are better understood in context    Gerd|
9863|9860|2005-12-14 06:16:19|a_admi|Re: Photos - Running out of space -|Hi Aaron , Tom , Ben and Gerd . I saw Alex's Video and Tom's pics , I became convinced the BS 26 was the boat I liked to have build , I order and pay for the plans and we have some positive fine conversations in this Group , about the BS 26 as far as I am concerned .  Ben reads the Photo space is rather full , delete most of the pics he posted when he see I do the same. Ben presents his excuses to every one and asks friendly what to do in the future .  Thanks Wesley for your positive attitude.  I took my personal pics away before any complaint. I am realy happy to see Tom's and Aaron's pics , the BS 26 sure is on the Topic in this Group.  Gerd I am realy unhappy with your post.  All is negative in your post and you do as if the the 26 BS builders do not exist , even if our projects started the - Photos-Running out of space - Post I am a future builder and Aaron and Tom's Pics are self explaining .  I have visited your professionaly looking website , and choose not to take your offer of a free plan.  I realy hope the members will not be influenced by your negative attitude , I do not have your boating knowledge and I always like a pic to see.  I hope to make a fine ebook and I am very sure that my boat will be build much much much faster than the one you are building .  For most people boatbuilding is a joy , the achievement of some dreams , please stop with your negativism cause your attitude reminds me of the inquisition in the middel ages.  Sorry all for my out burst .  I will do my best to forget " Mister Definition's " Post, and Gerd : I will not enter in any argument with you, all your posts are selfexplaining. ----------------------------------------------------------- From: Wesley Cox <inspirfe@...>  Date: Wed Dec 14, 2005  9:24 am  Subject: Re: [origamiboats] Photos - Running out of space -      I, for one, think dinghy discussion and photos are relevant. It's part of the whole origami boat package, especially if the dinghy is also origami. I'm contemplating an aluminum origami kayak, myself. -----------------------------------------------------------  --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Gerd" <yago@j...> wrote: > > I think that it does not make much sense to upload pictures that are  > already elsewhere on the web - taking a picture from another site and  > then to upload it to our file-sections is nonsense and really just  > redundant info and creates a lot of noise and space problems.  >  > It is in general much better to just link to the pages where these  > images are originally, because >  > - no copyright problems - not everybody is happy about pics being  > copied and reproduced, often out of context and without naming the  > source > - usually there is more that just one picture plus a lot of tectual  > information on their site, and they are better understood in context  >  >  > Gerd > |
9864|9860|2005-12-14 07:25:27|Gerd|Re: Photos - Running out of space -|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "a_admi" <a_admi@y...> wrote:    > All is negative in your post and you do as if the > the 26 BS builders do not exist ,    ?? ;-)|
9865|9860|2005-12-14 09:09:01|Puck III|Re: Photos - Running out of space -|!! :-)  Spirited she sure is :-)  Quote " being just plain happy...;-) " at : http://tinyurl.com/agkbk  on Topic and totaly in the context :-)  http://www.justmueller.com/boats/   --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Gerd" <yago@j...> wrote: > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "a_admi" <a_admi@y...> wrote: >   > > All is negative in your post and you do as if the > > the 26 BS builders do not exist ,  >  > ?? ;-) > |
9866|9860|2005-12-14 09:29:05|Gerd|Re: Photos - Running out of space -|Old Ben, more seriously, I really often would like to know where you  get your pictures from - they are always very ineresting, and  unfortunately you often just post them without any references, and  that's a pity ;-)  Gerd   --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III" <ben_azo@h...>  wrote:  > > !! :-) >  > Spirited she sure is :-) >  > Quote " being just plain happy...;-) " at : > http://tinyurl.com/agkbk >  > on Topic and totaly in the context :-) >  > http://www.justmueller.com/boats/ >  > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Gerd" <yago@j...> wrote: > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "a_admi" <a_admi@y...>   wrote:  > >   > > > All is negative in your post and you do as if the > > > the 26 BS builders do not exist ,  > >  > > ?? ;-) > > > |
9867|9860|2005-12-14 10:54:55|Puck III|Re: Photos - Running out of space -|OK Gerd , I will try to oblige you in the future , most new pics have the url as name , some pics are send to me without URL , most people working with an apple make a screen dump of what they feel is interesting , no reffs......  our spirited co-member is a member in my club in Gent.  I think she has a valid point : most people , just look again at the poll survey : 71 % like to see pics , why do you post pics on your website? same as a magazine : trying to be attractive  [ I stopped posting my pic , unless the Old Pics   where I look a bit or lots of weight less ]  I agree with most wanting the pics to stay in a well organised manner .  I agree with you , reference should be given . When you have a valid argument , I must agree. I will do my best to post the correct refs .  You should do your best , as the spirited lady says , to be more positif in your postings .  How did you dare spoil her day ?  Her dreamboat was mentioned in the post!!! You deleted that part ......... I certainly would not dare !!!  I have a rather large collection of magazines and books, about 5000+ pics badly referenced on CD's cause  my wife expelled most magazines out of the house to the garage , same with most of the old books, her car cannot enter the garage anymore :-)  I am afraid one of these days she is gone eject me also , together with my dog .  That day I will permanently retire to the boat .  Contact the prettyest girl from the Crew List I hold and take off to .........what ever , where ever . Not in desperation , on the contrary....... I am well prepared cause some pics are in Repositories , I have internet acces on board so wherever I will be, I will be able to send a little illustration pic.  I am off to a serious project now  the amphibious trailorable 6X4 WD multihull trailer for the mechanicaly thinking in : http://groups.yahoo.com/group/boatwheels/  hehe , that has not been designed and build yet, tell me if I am wrong , and feel free to download all pics you care for :-)  Arguments over details are irrelevant , I will do my best to give good references in the future. Try to leave the negative and post us  positive remarks only , aint that a good idea ???  May I leave that well referenced pretty pic for a day ?? Or do I delete it right away? Please advise :-) I will oblige .  Old Ben     --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Gerd" <yago@j...> wrote: > > Old Ben, more seriously, I really often would like to know where  you  > get your pictures from - they are always very ineresting, and  > unfortunately you often just post them without any references, and  > that's a pity ;-) >  > Gerd >  >  --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III" <ben_azo@h...>  > wrote: > > > > !! :-) > >  > > Spirited she sure is :-) > >  > > Quote " being just plain happy...;-) " at : > > http://tinyurl.com/agkbk > >  > > on Topic and totaly in the context :-) > >  > > http://www.justmueller.com/boats/ > >  > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Gerd" <yago@j...> wrote: > > > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "a_admi" <a_admi@y...>  > wrote: > > >   > > > > All is negative in your post and you do as if the > > > > the 26 BS builders do not exist ,  > > >  > > > ?? ;-) > > > > > > |
9868|9853|2005-12-14 13:09:18|nortje_wynand|Re: 7024 rod longevity|Paul,  E7024 electrodes, also known as contact rods, because you have to touch the steel with the electrode (and the flux around the rod also strikes an arc, so be carefull putting it down on steel!)when welding, is basically an electrode to use in a downhand position only. It's main use is for fillet welds of structural steel and cannot be used in any other position, eg. vertical, horizontal or even a slight incline. The flux and weld will "run". This electrode is mainly used in structural steel welding or pipe flanges where a fillet weld is called for. For boatbuilding rather use a mild steel rod eg. E6013 electrode - good in any weld position.  Good luck Wynand   --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "jfpacuas" <paulcotter@a...> wrote: > > HI folks, >  > It seems I can only find 7024 rod in 50 lb boxes. Now, the majority of  > my boat building will start in about 1+ years although I am currently  > building parts/pieces and spending some time scrounging. I don't have  > any fancy way to keep rod, but the environment here is fairly dry.  >  > Does 7024 keep well? I'd like to start using it on some of my smaller  > projects, but I don't want to keep buying it by the 50 lb bushell. >  > Cheers >  > paul > |
9869|8215|2005-12-14 13:21:26|Puck III|Dinghy|Hi All , a good read , Not Origami but on Dinghy Topic : a Cruising World story : 2 pages in http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats2/files/Dinghy/  and also Tanton's ( a Group Member's ) Dinghy  Old Ben|
9870|9870|2005-12-14 15:38:14|Gerd|another "steel catamaran" ;-)|have a look at http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/653545.html|
9871|9827|2005-12-14 18:50:30|Denis Buggy|Re: Caterina|dear gerd  when i find what i saved re caterina i  will reply regarding that . your points are well made and i have resigned myself to a moderate speed  as i intend only costal travel for  some time as i do not have the experience required for even that yet and i intend to get my proper training via a sailing school , i have started assembling the guts of the boat and i have , engines ,  steel box and angle   some sheet ,webasto heaters both air and water (free from  old buses)and a  on board diesel generator + welder  ect  i am trying to assemble what i will use  anyway prior to the design  being proven to be seaworthy .i i do not know any sailors and i  must  crew this  shorthanded and a areo rig type sail seems to be the only way to go , most naval architects i have spoken to ( after much ridicule)  usually say they would not imagine anything less than 60 ft  would work at all  in steel . i am hoping 50 ft will do   i have already traded speed for a simple structure which amounts to a simple v shape hulls   bolted to the remainder of the structure for ease of construction and a propulsion system which does not cause drag has yet to reach final design . you are correct in your judgement that it is less expensive for me to weld thicker metal in simple structures made from locally availible steel standard stock of  structrial steel  which speeds up things considerably . i have stress  work done for carbon fiber box section multihulls and i am using it as a guide for the work in steel . i  am considering mounting a mast in each hull as i avoid a structural mess in the central living area if i do  and i have a heavy keel for grounding and basing the foot ot the mast . there is a existing steel cat 60 ft  long  " steel magnolia" max 10 knots corten steel huge sail charter boat which has been for sale for some time  and your words "a lack of empiric knowlege in this area " sum up the situation fully , kind regards for your advice  gerd and i intend to go on with my floating winnabago project  as it has been  correctly christned , thanks for your help ben and colin      ----- Original Message -----    From: Gerd    To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com    Sent: Saturday, December 10, 2005 4:45 PM   Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Caterina     Denis, this design illustrates nicely the steel-cat dilemma: about    50% (!!) more displacement than say a privilege crusing cat, which    is bigger at 39' and not really known for being a lightweight to    begin with. There is no way around that.    So the real question here is: what's wrong with a heavy cat?    If the usual advantages of a crusing cat are living space, speed and    upright sailing, then high weight of course takes speed out of it.    But the two other advantages might still be interesting, IF this is    compensated by significantly reduced cost and IF we still have just    as safe and seworthy a vessel (compared to the lighter cat) - this    last part I am not sure about for the moment as there is a general    lack of empiric knowledge in this area.     BTW, did you get any info on scantling of hull and structure for the    boat?    Gerd   The Yago Project at http://www.justmueller.com/boats/    --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Denis Buggy" <buggy@i...>    wrote:   >   > abandon hope all ye who enter here , i paid my 25 dollars  i got a    foggy view of something designed to be a foggy view of something  on    a sheet of paper no software can clean it up and the drawings may be    well off scale to make them useless . denis   >   ----- Original Message -----    >   From: Puck III    >   To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com    >   Sent: Saturday, December 10, 2005 5:28 AM   >   Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Caterina   >    >    >   To me she looks like two joined narrow monohull keelboats.   >   Worth looking into ??   I realy wonder .   >    >   Old Ben   >    >   --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III" <ben_azo@h...>    wrote:   >   >   >   > http://www.bodenboatplans.com/sail/details.aspx?id=29   >   >   >    >    >    >    >    >    >    >   To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com   >   To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-   unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com    >    >    >    > -------------------------------------------------------------------   -----------   >   YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS    >    >     a..  Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web.   >          >     b..  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:   >      origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com   >          >     c..  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms    of Service.    >    >    > -------------------------------------------------------------------   -----------   >    >    >    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]   >         To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com   To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com     ------------------------------------------------------------------------------   YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS       a..  Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web.            b..  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:      origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com            c..  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
9872|9872|2005-12-14 21:08:53|audeojude|space for photos|I will offer one more time.. I did this before when we had to go to an origami2 group and was pretty much ignored.. but im a glutten for punishment  I have dedicated webservers on the internet. I am willing to host the photos up to 10 gigs or so on the buildingyourboat.com site or a dedicated photogallery off of it.  This creating new yahoo groups (group one, group 2, group 3) just to hold photos and stuff is awkward not to mention the deleting of old photos and stuff all the time to make room.. a lot of those photos are relevant and if someone reading backposts tries to go see them and they are not there then a lot is lost.  scott carle|
9873|9860|2005-12-14 21:09:14|Alex Christie|Re: Photos - Running out of space -|It is easy to start another group for photos, there is no limit in this  regard.  I'll create it tonight!  Alex    >  >Tom's latest Post : >We may have to start up an origami3 site >  >  >  > >  >>the origami2 photo's file is allmost full and I hope youre going to >  >>post some pictures when you get started. >     [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]|
9874|9860|2005-12-14 21:23:41|tom|Re: Photos - Running out of space -|Thanks Alex  Didnt mean to start up a ruckus on photos, Figured it was easy to start  origamiboats3 Tom  ----- Original Message -----  From: "Alex Christie" <achristie@...> To: <origamiboats@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, December 14, 2005 6:06 PM Subject: Re: [origamiboats] Photos - Running out of space -   It is easy to start another group for photos, there is no limit in this regard.  I'll create it tonight!  Alex   >  >Tom's latest Post : >We may have to start up an origami3 site >  > >  > >  >>the origami2 photo's file is allmost full and I hope youre going to >  >>post some pictures when you get started. >  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]     To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:  origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links |
9875|9872|2005-12-14 22:03:56|Puck III|Re: space for photos|Hi Scott , I just payed a visit to the buildingyourboat.com site .  The Junk Rig pic is fantastic . The Origami Boats photo also . The URL : http://www.buildingyourboat.com/show_image.php?id=9 for the steelcatstudyplans.jpg [ 563 visits ], I uploaded there long ago still is not working properly . I could download the thumbnail :-)  A cherished member in this Group could realy use a peak at that steelcatstudyplan , that could sett the man back on the right track .  What do you propose ? Can you fix the problem or do I have to go through a lengthy search proces for the old original ?  Best regards  Old Ben  Junk Rig Pictures of Junk Rigged Boats  Tue 09 of Nov, 2004 [17:59 UTC]  Fri 31 of Dec, 2004 [17:23 UTC] audeojude 1 766     Origami Boats Picutures of Origami method constructed boats Mon 08 of  Nov, 2004 [14:01 UTC] Fri 31 of Dec, 2004 [17:24 UTC] admin 1 763     Study Plans and Boat Plans Upoaded images of articles, study plans and  boat plans Thu 30 of Dec, 2004 [21:51 UTC] Fri 31 of Dec, 2004 [17:38  UTC] audeojude 1 563       --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "audeojude" <audeojude@y...> wrote: > > I will offer one more time.. I did this before when we had to go to an > origami2 group and was pretty much ignored.. but im a glutten for > punishment >  > I have dedicated webservers on the internet. I am willing to host the > photos up to 10 gigs or so on the buildingyourboat.com site or a > dedicated photogallery off of it. >  > This creating new yahoo groups (group one, group 2, group 3) just to > hold photos and stuff is awkward not to mention the deleting of old > photos and stuff all the time to make room.. a lot of those photos are > relevant and if someone reading backposts tries to go see them and > they are not there then a lot is lost. >  > scott carle > |
9876|9860|2005-12-14 22:16:50|Puck III|Re: Photos - Running out of space -|Hi Alex , good to see you back , sorry for the " photo bulblamp affair " thanks for the solution , you are a victim of this Group's succes :-)  Good interesting Vietnam trip ? Any Vietnamese Origami Boats on the horizon yet ?  Sure a tiring trip , take your time for the answer .  I am so curious for the Origami related news .  Any pics or video in the making ?  Keep us all posted .  Old Ben  --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Alex Christie <achristie@s...>  wrote:  > > It is easy to start another group for photos, there is no limit in   this   > regard.  I'll create it tonight! >  > Alex >  >  > >  >Tom's latest Post : >We may have to start up an origami3 site > >  >  > >  > > >  >>the origami2 photo's file is allmost full and I hope youre   going to  > >  >>post some pictures when you get started. > >   >  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > |
9877|9872|2005-12-14 22:22:10|Puck III|Re: space for photos|Hi Scott , me again , the direct link works great !!!! did you fixed the problem that quick or was I having problems with my browser ?  The members interested in an old steelcatstudyplan should have a peak , even think of downloading it like I did . It's available on request for those that would encounter any problem .  Regards   Old Ben   --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III" <ben_azo@h...> wrote: > > Hi Scott , I just payed a visit to the > buildingyourboat.com site . >  > The Junk Rig pic is fantastic . > The Origami Boats photo also . > The URL : http://www.buildingyourboat.com/show_image.php?id=9 > for the steelcatstudyplans.jpg [ 563 visits ], > I uploaded there long ago still is not working properly . > I could download the thumbnail :-) >  > A cherished member in this Group could realy use a peak > at that steelcatstudyplan , that could sett the man back > on the right track . >  > What do you propose ? Can you fix the problem or > do I have to go through a lengthy search proces > for the old original ? >  > Best regards >  > Old Ben >  > Junk Rig Pictures of Junk Rigged Boats  Tue 09 of Nov, 2004 [17:59  UTC]  > Fri 31 of Dec, 2004 [17:23 UTC] audeojude 1 766    >  > Origami Boats Picutures of Origami method constructed boats Mon 08  of  > Nov, 2004 [14:01 UTC] Fri 31 of Dec, 2004 [17:24 UTC] admin 1 763    >  > Study Plans and Boat Plans Upoaded images of articles, study plans  and  > boat plans Thu 30 of Dec, 2004 [21:51 UTC] Fri 31 of Dec, 2004  [17:38  > UTC] audeojude 1 563    >  >  > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "audeojude" <audeojude@y...>  wrote: > > > > I will offer one more time.. I did this before when we had to go  to an > > origami2 group and was pretty much ignored.. but im a glutten for > > punishment > >  > > I have dedicated webservers on the internet. I am willing to host  the > > photos up to 10 gigs or so on the buildingyourboat.com site or a > > dedicated photogallery off of it. > >  > > This creating new yahoo groups (group one, group 2, group 3) just  to > > hold photos and stuff is awkward not to mention the deleting of  old > > photos and stuff all the time to make room.. a lot of those  photos are > > relevant and if someone reading backposts tries to go see them and > > they are not there then a lot is lost. > >  > > scott carle > > > |
9878|9827|2005-12-15 04:17:18|Gerd|Re: Caterina|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Denis Buggy" <buggy@i...>  wrote:  > > dear gerd  when i find what i saved re caterina i  will reply   regarding that .  > your points are well made and i have resigned myself to a moderate   speed  as i intend only costal travel for  some time as i do not  have the experience required for even that yet and i intend to get  my proper training via a sailing school  Wise decsion, Denis ;-) I have always advised everybody to invest 5  to 10 percent of the planned budget in chartering and sailing  school, off season and bluewater long distance trips, and on  different boats, including those that you do NOT like, before making  any final decisions as to the nature and type of the boat wyou will  build. Otherwise I think going for an experimental project without  sufficient practical experience, and partly against what most  experienced people will advise you, is a bit dangerous, you know,  like wanting to re-invent the wheel and by accident coming up with  something octagonal instead ;-)  Gerd|
9879|9879|2005-12-15 05:22:23|Puck III|Direct Link Test - Photos|http://www.buildingyourboat.com/tiki-browse_image.php?imageId=13|
9880|9880|2005-12-15 07:10:02|blueiceicle|Swain boats Racing?|This post is more for brent and other north west swain owners..  Has anyone entered the Van Isle Cadillac 360 race? Can a Swain design be entered? Or is there certain details about a boat that have to be met before it can be entered into this or any race?  Just wondering because i was thinking that the 2007 race might be do  able for me if i keep up with my time frame.   Jesse|
9881|9881|2005-12-15 07:12:14|blueiceicle|Swains being built in the Comox Valley|Hi all  Just wondering .. im heading back to the valley for christmas and was  who all is building back home. I know christmas time is not the best  time to be checking out boats and all. But if any die hards are at it  or have a boat viewable from the road. id love to hear about it.   Alex.. your building down on condensery road arnt you?, is your boat  view able from the road? Assuminig in all likely hood your going to be  at home with the family. Well just thought id ask. It pains me i  couldnt get more time off work at a better time to see the sights but  what are you gonna do.   Later Jesse|
9882|9872|2005-12-15 09:17:24|Denis Buggy|Re: space for photos|----- Original Message -----    From: Puck III    To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com    Sent: Thursday, December 15, 2005 3:03 AM   Subject: [origamiboats] Re: space for photos     Hi Scott , I just payed a visit to the   buildingyourboat.com site .    The Junk Rig pic is fantastic .   The Origami Boats photo also .   The URL : http://www.buildingyourboat.com/show_image.php?id=9   for the steelcatstudyplans.jpg [ 563 visits ],   I uploaded there long ago still is not working properly .   I could download the thumbnail :-)    A cherished member in this Group could realy use a peak   at that steelcatstudyplan , that could sett the man back   on the right track .    What do you propose ? Can you fix the problem or   do I have to go through a lengthy search proces   for the old original ?     dear ben  please do not look for any pdf copy as i have it somewhere already and i  cherish you too , happy christmas to all in this group from ireland  and thanks for your tolerance    >          To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com   To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com       SPONSORED LINKS Living aboard  British columbia canada  Vancouver island           Yacht  Victoria bc     ------------------------------------------------------------------------------   YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS       a..  Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web.            b..  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:      origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com            c..  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
9883|9880|2005-12-15 10:18:14|tom|Re: Swain boats Racing?|Hello Jesse  Ive done a little off shore racing here in california, not with swain boat  but I think you will need to get ahold of the club putting on the race to  get the info you need.  As far as racing a brent swain boat there shouldnt be any problem as long  as you have the requiard safety equipment+ sail numbers+ rating certifacate  and here you have to be a member of a yaht club to enter a race Tom  ----- Original Message -----  From: "blueiceicle" <tunagouda@...> To: <origamiboats@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, December 15, 2005 4:05 AM Subject: [origamiboats] Swain boats Racing?   > This post is more for brent and other north west swain owners.. > > Has anyone entered the Van Isle Cadillac 360 race? > Can a Swain design be entered? Or is there certain details about a boat > that have to be met before it can be entered into this or any race? > > Just wondering because i was thinking that the 2007 race might be do > able for me if i keep up with my time frame. > > Jesse > > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:  > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > |
9884|9872|2005-12-15 11:29:37|Puck III|Re: space for photos|Hi Denis ,thanks for your friendly post regarding : Photos at the buildingyourboat.com site .   The Junk Rig pic is fantastic . The Origami Boats photo also . The URL : http://www.buildingyourboat.com/show_image.php?id=9 for the steelcatstudyplans.jpg [ 563 visits ],works fine. The Photo Direct Link Test seems to work fine : http://www.buildingyourboat.com/tiki-browse_image.php?imageId=13 hoping you like the system.  I like Old Malt , so I posted another pic : http://www.buildingyourboat.com/tiki-browse_image.php?imageId=14 please have a serious look at the pics description :-) - nice mention of origin and source - a question intended for you realy :-)  What do I propose ? What was I thinking about ? Just an Idea ?  Why not first build that special Origami Sailing Lifeboat Dinghy , to start with your larger project ??? You see if you like building , you will need a dinghy anyway , and with the help of a friend you learn sailing , best done on a small boat . I sailed the Irish Sea ( stopped in Island of Arran ) it can be rough out there .  Is my idea totaly crazy ? Just tell me what you think . Cheers and happy holidays.  Old Ben  --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Denis Buggy" <buggy@i...>  wrote:   >    dear ben  please do not look for any pdf copy as i have it   somewhere already and i  cherish you too , happy christmas to all in  this group from ireland  and thanks for your tolerance   >   > > |
9885|9872|2005-12-15 13:40:21|audeojude|Re: space for photos|I think that you must have been having problems with your browser.. I  haven't had a chance to get out and look at it. I think I fixed the  problem from long ago.....  I also have photo gallery software that we could use that doesn't have  all the other features.. you can see  it in opperation at  http://www.scottcarle.com/gallery  scott  --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III" <ben_azo@h...> wrote: > > Hi Scott , me again , the direct link works great !!!! > did you fixed the problem that quick or was I having > problems with my browser ? |
9886|9872|2005-12-15 16:26:47|(no author)|(no subject)|hey its me, my old address dont work at time. i dont know why?! in the last days ive got some mails. i' think thaz your mails but im not sure!  plz read and check ... cyaaaaaaa  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]|
9887|9782|2005-12-15 17:14:50|Courtney Thomas|Re: Boat Paint|Thank you for your input but what were the "good coatings" from your  experience, please ?  In fact, what was the best  :-)  Thank you, C.Thomas  Dick Pilz wrote:  > Before waxing too lyrical about CorTen steels and the like, please > keep in mind the corrosion resistance holds true for "exposed to > atamosphere" conditions. Once immersed, they are only as good as, and > sometimes worse than, mild steel. >  > Their prime virtue is a higher tensile and yield point - the other > side of which means harder to bend, form and cut. I would only > consider these alloys where low weight is a consideration and the > guage is reduced to match the increase in strength. The fatgue > resistance will go down, though, since thinner sections flex more, > irregardless of tensile strength. >  > CorTen might be a better cadidate for a mast than for a hull. >  > I haven't done much in the way of boats, but I did design, spec, tool > and build steel compressed air tanks to go on heavy duty trucks for > twenty years. Those things get condensation on the inside and salty > spray and gravel abrasion on the outside. I've run dozens of salt > spray tests with different coating systems, scratched and unscratched. >  > Good surface prep and good coatings beat alloys every time, again > except where overall weight is a factor. (A pound saved on a truck is > worth about 125 USD over a 15 year life.) >  > The money saved by sticking to mild steel can buy a lot of paint. >  > Fair Hulls and Fair Sailing > Dick >  > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, NORMAN MOORE <normmoore@s...> wrote: >  >>Check out Sigma coatings  I came upon this yacht >>website of a corten steel Van der Stadt ketch.  The >>owner endorsed their products and gave the combination >>he used on his boat. >> >>http://www.seakin.com/gilana/sy_for_sale/sy_for_sale.htm >>  >> >>Sigma products are used by many industrial and >>shipping companies.  Some are designed to be recoated >>on a clean surface painted surface to reduce >>maintenance costs.  I personally have no experience >>with them, just found it in my web surfing and thought >>it sounded interesting. >> >>--- kingsknight4life <wildcatbjj@h...> wrote: >> >> >>--------------------------------- >>--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "mickeyolaf" >><mickeyolaf@y...>  >>wrote: >> >>>I was talking last night to a guy who sandblasts and >> >>then repaints  >> >>>fishboats. He uses Endura to paint the hulls because >> >>he said you  >>can't  >> >>>repair Awlgrip and you have to respray the whole >> >>boat if the Awlgrip  >> >>>is damaged. Something I didn't know. Thought I would >> >>pass it on. >> >>Mickey >>I know lots of the commercial guys use Endura, it' >>suppossd to be  >>tough as nails. The problem is how do you touch it up >>if it has been  >>chipped? I heard the same thing about Endura that you >>heard about  >>Awlgrip, that it's hard or impossible to touch up. You >>have a tough  >>time with Endura, to rough up the edges around the >>area being repaired  >>because it is SO hard. Can anyone else shed some light >>on the subject? >>Rowland >> >> >> >> >> >> >>To Post a message, send it to:   >>origamiboats@yahoogroups.com >>To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: >>origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com >> >>       >> >>      SPONSORED LINKS   >>                                                Living >>aboard                                    British >>columbia canada                                    >>Vancouver island                                       >>                         Yacht                         >>           Victoria bc                                 >>       >>     >>--------------------------------- >>  YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS >> >>   >>    Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web. >>    >>    To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >> origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com >>    >>    Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! >>Terms of Service. >> >>   >>--------------------------------- >> >> >> >> >>Norm Moore >>559-645-5314 >> >  >  >  >  >  >  >  > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com  > Yahoo! Groups Links >  >  >  >   >  >  >  > |
9888|9641|2005-12-15 17:43:51|Courtney Thomas|Re: Mold question (Webbing)|Pardon my obtuseness, but could you more fully describe what you mean by  using a lashing rope.  Thank you, C.Thomas  .. wrote:  > Ted, > you could tension the webbing in the same as the old pipe cots,with > a lashing rope. > Geoff >   > Seer, > I thought about using woven webbing as a base for bunks as I have some  > that came from the rigging of a hot air balloon.  The problem that I  > foresee is tensioning it so that it doesn't sag like a hammock.  That  > can give one a bad back.  To keep tension one would need a strong  > frame and probably a means of adjusting individual webbing straps.  Do  > you have any good ideas on that? >  >  >  >  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >  >  >  >  > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com  > Yahoo! Groups Links >  >  >  >   >  >  > |
9889|9889|2005-12-16 04:08:16|jim_both|Question for Alex|I think you just returned from Viet Nam?  If so, I was considering   going there to get the interior of my yacht completed.  It's not that  far from Australia, and I have some connections there in one of the  port cities.  I would just rough-out the interior and store all the  fittings I couldn't source in Viet Nam.  All the welding would be done  and the boat basically sea-worthy.  I would just need to do all the  cabinet/carpentry/fiberglass work, which could make it possible to get  in the water a year earlier than otherwise.  From the short time you  spent there, do you tink that this is a feasible option?  The other alternative would be to have a small workshop onboard and  fit out when cruising. Thanks,  Jim|
9890|9890|2005-12-16 11:18:31|edward_stoneuk|Battery boxes|Hi all, What is the preferred way of locating and restraining batteries on  board?  I have a pair of glass fibre boxes with sealed tops and  glanded cables that came out of a ship's lifeboat.  I was thinking of  having three batteries and so will need to make another box or one big  one to hold all three batteries; or pour some concrete to make a level  surface to sit them on with tensioned webbing to hold them in place  under the cabin sole.   Regards, Ted|
9891|9880|2005-12-16 11:24:08|silascrosby|Re: Swain boats Racing?|Jesse, The Vancouver Island 360 race is actually quite competitive and  even the 'cruising' division boats are pretty quick. As I remember a  42' fast cruiser a couple of years ago was left far behind and often  had to motor (thus disqualify) to get to the leg finish for the  parties. It also has a significant expense just to enter.  I think the outside legs would be fun but the light-air drifters up  through the Gulf Islands might be a drag. I have not entered but a  number of my associates have crewed.    My opinion is that BS boats are pretty good on long offshore  passages but for short-tacking or light winds they are just another  fairly heavy cruising boat - not competitive. However I have always  wanted to justify a fully feathering prop , and I do enjoy the  informal races that occur spontaneously.                                         Steve 'Silas Crosby'  > |
9892|9892|2005-12-16 16:44:26|jericoera|Any foam crews near comox|I am just trying to find out who will foam my boat over here in Powlel  River when it is ready for it--any crews recommended?  Carl McIntosh|
9893|9893|2005-12-17 10:36:49|prairiemaidca|port sealing|Hey Steve:  How were the ports on SilasCrosby sealed to prevent  leakes??  I hope to be doing that procedure in the spring.  Martin  (Prairie Maid)|
9894|9880|2005-12-17 14:26:16|blueiceicle|Re: Swain boats Racing?|Hey Steve..  Im guessing it would be a tricky race..light airs throught the  channels. I thought i saw some pretty heavy boats enterted on the 360  website, which got the gears turning. I sailing experiance is far from  race worthy but it still seems like it could be fun.   So are swain designs not to good in light winds? I thought they brents  designs were suppose to be good all around. I cant remember. too late  now i already have the plans lol.   Does anyone happen to know the hull speed on the 26ft or is it the  same as the 31ft? Dont quite know how that works.  Happy sailng/building everyone Jesse|
9895|9872|2005-12-17 16:03:16|Denis Buggy|Re: space for photos|----- Original Message -----    From: Puck III    To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com    Sent: Thursday, December 15, 2005 4:28 PM   Subject: [origamiboats] Re: space for photos     Hi Denis    - a question intended for you realy :-)    dear ben  thanks for your research and drawings  of your cat "kitty  ", which are very interesting and i have a  few questions for you .  my reasearch so far points me towards a jib and main  as used already on an aerorig to provide  theoretically 100% increase in  sailpower by  using the jib as a leading edge as on aircraft and filling the gap between sails and mast  makes  the sail  arrangement seamless , this presents a problem using a mast on each hull  , what do you think of mounting a mast 10 ft forward of the other  offset on the other hull  this would allow each main to swing out over each hull downwind as i wish to limit mast height and weight and to be able to lower sail quickly . you use  four dagger boards in your design can you tell me why , and your engines  and shafts are   offset  to one side of the hull  , what is this arrangement  ,   thanks for the food for thought  and  interest  .  denis  ------------------------------------------------------------------------------   YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS     ------------------------------------------------------------------------------     [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
9896|9880|2005-12-17 17:51:00|tom|Re: Swain boats Racing?|Hello Jesse  The way you figure hull speed is the square root of the water line  times  1.34 = knots so on the 26 its 6.28 knots   I  would say enter the race it will be fun and hopefully there will be  other boats in the same class as you and that will make it a lot more fun.  Are you building the 26 ? Tom  ----- Original Message -----  From: "blueiceicle" <tunagouda@...> To: <origamiboats@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, December 17, 2005 11:25 AM Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Swain boats Racing?   > Hey Steve.. > > Im guessing it would be a tricky race..light airs throught the > channels. I thought i saw some pretty heavy boats enterted on the 360 > website, which got the gears turning. I sailing experiance is far from > race worthy but it still seems like it could be fun. > > So are swain designs not to good in light winds? I thought they brents > designs were suppose to be good all around. I cant remember. too late > now i already have the plans lol. > > Does anyone happen to know the hull speed on the 26ft or is it the > same as the 31ft? Dont quite know how that works. > > Happy sailng/building everyone > Jesse > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:  > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > |
9897|9880|2005-12-17 19:18:38|tom|Re: Swain boats Racing?|Hello again Jesse  I was just checking the official web site for the  Van Isle 360 , Look like  it would be a blast to race in but I was reading through the rules How to  enter the race and you have to have a PHRF rating of 140 or faster to enter.  The 26 rating is going to be in the 200's and the 31 wouldnt be low enough  eather. Tom  ----- Original Message -----  From: "blueiceicle" <tunagouda@...> To: <origamiboats@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, December 17, 2005 11:25 AM Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Swain boats Racing?   > Hey Steve.. > > Im guessing it would be a tricky race..light airs throught the > channels. I thought i saw some pretty heavy boats enterted on the 360 > website, which got the gears turning. I sailing experiance is far from > race worthy but it still seems like it could be fun. > > So are swain designs not to good in light winds? I thought they brents > designs were suppose to be good all around. I cant remember. too late > now i already have the plans lol. > > Does anyone happen to know the hull speed on the 26ft or is it the > same as the 31ft? Dont quite know how that works. > > Happy sailng/building everyone > Jesse > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:  > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > |
9898|9872|2005-12-17 23:44:42|Puck III|Re: space for photos|Hi Denis , sorry to say the Kitty Cat drawing was only posted as a test to see if people would use the direct link photosystem  and if some people would be interested to have a peak .  http://www.buildingyourboat.com/tiki-browse_gallery.php?galleryId=4  Anybody can see for himself the results of a direct link post .  Gerd must be right wanting the link to pics posted . Sorry to say I found no Link to that Cat Drawing or I would have posted it , on the other hand it raises the question what to do with a pic or drawing when one does not know the Link ?? That design aint mine , does I keep it secretly  for my own use , or are you happy to share ?  Why the Dinghy building question ??  That seemed the solution to test your research in a practical and cheap way , before investing a small fortune in your ultimate steel cat .  Have a peak at the Dinghy PhotoAlbum in Origamiboats2 http://tinyurl.com/b58s9   some selfexplaning pics see the  variable mast posion on the cat . see the Junkrig model pic found in a very interesting album Junkrig ( for the interested in Junkrigs ) http://scottcarle.com/gallery/  Imagine you sitting in a comfy chair testing all the rigs you want to research on an Origami Aluminum dinghy. That sure would be ON TOPIC in here :-)  Just some fishrodholders could receive all the mastoptions.  You even do not have to do the testing on water , some wheels and a dynamometer between the dinghy and a fixed point can show if your idea is worth persueing , with a constant wind you can measure the difference in forward force between the different rig systems . Your testresults would receive a lot of interest. I will repost some older interesting rig-testresults with a direct Link , if someone is interested :-)   It's always a pleasure to propose a positive idea when there is an interest off course....... Practical testing or just plane neverending theory ? All depends on one preference.  Old Ben     --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Denis Buggy" <buggy@i...> wrote: > >  >   ----- Original Message -----  >   From: Puck III  >   To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com  >   Sent: Thursday, December 15, 2005 4:28 PM >   Subject: [origamiboats] Re: space for photos >  >  >   Hi Denis  >   - a question intended for you realy :-) >  >   dear ben  thanks for your research and drawings  of your  cat "kitty  ", which are very interesting and i have a  few questions  for you .  my reasearch so far points me towards a jib and main  as  used already on an aerorig to provide  theoretically 100% increase  in  sailpower by  using the jib as a leading edge as on aircraft and  filling the gap between sails and mast  makes  the sail  arrangement  seamless , this presents a problem using a mast on each hull  , what  do you think of mounting a mast 10 ft forward of the other  offset on  the other hull  this would allow each main to swing out over each  hull downwind as i wish to limit mast height and weight and to be  able to lower sail quickly . you use  four dagger boards in your  design can you tell me why , and your engines  and shafts are    offset  to one side of the hull  , what is this arrangement  ,    thanks for the food for thought  and  interest  .  denis >  > -------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------- >   YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS  >  >  >  > -------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------- >  >  >  >  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > |
9899|9889|2005-12-18 04:41:33|Puck III|Re: Question for Alex|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "jim_both" <stainless316@o...>  wrote:  > > I think you just returned from Viet Nam?  If so, I was considering   > going there to get the interior of my yacht completed.  It's not that  > far from Australia, and I have some connections there in one of the  > port cities.  I would just rough-out the interior and store all the  > fittings I couldn't source in Viet Nam.  All the welding would be   done   > and the boat basically sea-worthy.  I would just need to do all the  > cabinet/carpentry/fiberglass work, which could make it possible to   get   > in the water a year earlier than otherwise.  From the short time you  > spent there, do you tink that this is a feasible option? >  > The other alternative would be to have a small workshop onboard and  > fit out when cruising. > Thanks,  Jim >  http://boatdesign.net/forums/showthread.php?t=299&goto=nextoldest just a link to building overseas thoughts|
9900|9872|2005-12-18 05:00:20|Gerd|Re: space for photos|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III" <ben_azo@h...> wrote:   > Gerd must be right wanting the link to pics posted ........That   design aint mine , does I keep it secretly   > for my own use , or are you happy to share ?   Ben, you seem to have tons of interesting material, and quite a lot of  it from the days before the internet where there's no link to publish.  By all means keep them coming, especially the more exotic ones. But it would be fair to the original creator and very useful to us if  you you name the designer, and maybe the source, for further reference  and research.  Gerd  the Yago project at http://www.justmueller.com/boats/|
9901|9901|2005-12-18 05:49:41|Gerd|new origami design: ROVER 36|Some time ago a guy passed by our house and stopped with screeching tires in front of my rust pile in the garden. turns out he had been pregnant with boat building plans for years, but, living here in the plains, had felt that must be some sort of shameful desease and hidden it from family and neighbours ;-) I invited him in, and soon he was climbing all over the thing with big open eyes. As soon as he understood the idea of origami, that was it... so during the past couple of months we noodled lots of hulls and layouts until we narrowed it down and I designed this here for him:http://www.justmueller.com/boats/_files/rover36/rover36.htm, hand drawings of profile and layout, and some first 3D models, and the brief. It's close to what you would call a "troller yacht" I guess, strictly economic displacement speeds, 36 feet and lots of space. Building is supposed to start beginning of 2006. GerdThe Yago Project at http://www.justmueller.com/boats/     [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]|
9902|9901|2005-12-18 06:01:58|Gerd|Re: new origami design: ROVER 36|sorry, problem in the link, with the comma stuck to it at the end it  does not work, try this  http://www.justmueller.com/boats/_files/rover36/rover36.htm by the way, is there a way to edit/correct posts once they are up?  Gerd|
9903|9903|2005-12-18 06:09:14|Puck III|Some questions for the professional Welders in the Group|Some questions for the professional Welders in the Group  Hi guys , I have some questions if I may .  Does anybody amongst you ever welded a mould for a " Low-Tech Open Fire Rotomould "  See : http://www.blrotomould.com/product.htm to find the same pic I uploaded in the Origamiboats2 Dinghy Photo Album , http://tinyurl.com/b58s9 would you like to start from there , just paste the Pic's URL into your adressbar and you will be at the same adress.  If you have not , some friend may have , sure that system is used somewhere near you. It is about 5 miles from my home so I will trye to take some pics tomorrow .  Please have a look at http://www.midget-club.com/ and push for : 15'Oostzeejol nieuw ( NEW :-) for 200 Euro members can rent the mould to build their own boat .  I wonder how much it would cost to build a strong enough and wellfinished opening steel mould , all faults will reflect in every product comming out of that mould hull + deck , cause when such a trailorable openfire building unit  is finished the Origami Dinghies would cost peanuts....:-)  Deck and hull in one piece , with foam injected for strenght and safety .   One can argue much about the Dinghy's designgoal, sure it should be designed anybody can build one easely by using good plans .  Is the Rotomould issue irrelevant ??? Many guys like to bye a cheap , proven and good finished product on shelf at some dealers outlett.  Please tell me what you think .  Old Ben|
9904|9872|2005-12-18 07:09:53|Puck III|Re: space for photos|Gerd and Denis ,here comes a recent exotic one , direct Link http://www.buildingyourboat.com/tiki-browse_image.php?imageId=15 no URL , cause even today some choose not to have a website . All coordinates are in the pics name . I sure watch out to see the test results , just have a look at the sail to weight ratio !! I'l keep you posted . Does that Designer know about Origami ? I will drop him a line...... He could save some building time :-) Just wondering how many hits that pic is gone receive :-)  Old Ben    --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Gerd" <yago@j...> wrote: > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III" <ben_azo@h...>  wrote: >  > > Gerd must be right wanting the link to pics posted ........That  > design aint mine , does I keep it secretly  > > for my own use , or are you happy to share ? >  > Ben, you seem to have tons of interesting material, and quite a lot  of  > it from the days before the internet where there's no link to  publish.  > By all means keep them coming, especially the more exotic ones. > But it would be fair to the original creator and very useful to us  if  > you you name the designer, and maybe the source, for further  reference  > and research. >  > Gerd >  > the Yago project at http://www.justmueller.com/boats/ > |
9905|9872|2005-12-18 07:37:54|Puck III|Re: space for photos|Gerd and Denis ,another one to see , in the same album : http://www.buildingyourboat.com/tiki-browse_image.php?imageId=16 build in compounded ply , very near the Origmi building method. worth looking at ??? worth thinking it can be designed for Origami ???  Just wondering...  Old Ben    --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III" <ben_azo@h...> wrote: > > Gerd and Denis ,here comes a recent exotic one , direct Link > http://www.buildingyourboat.com/tiki-browse_image.php?imageId=15 > no URL , cause even today some choose not to have a website . > All coordinates are in the pics name . > I sure watch out to see the test results , > just have a look at the sail to weight ratio !! > I'l keep you posted . > Does that Designer know about Origami ? > I will drop him a line...... > He could save some building time :-) > Just wondering how many hits that pic is gone receive :-) >  > Old Ben >  >  > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Gerd" <yago@j...> wrote: > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III" <ben_azo@h...>  > wrote: > >  > > > Gerd must be right wanting the link to pics posted ........That  > > design aint mine , does I keep it secretly  > > > for my own use , or are you happy to share ? > >  > > Ben, you seem to have tons of interesting material, and quite a  lot  > of  > > it from the days before the internet where there's no link to  > publish.  > > By all means keep them coming, especially the more exotic ones. > > But it would be fair to the original creator and very useful to  us  > if  > > you you name the designer, and maybe the source, for further  > reference  > > and research. > >  > > Gerd > >  > > the Yago project at http://www.justmueller.com/boats/ > > > |
9906|9889|2005-12-18 08:24:23|Alex Christie|Re: Question for Alex|Hi Jim,  I saw good quality woodworking in Vietnam, and I think it would be an  excellent place to fit out a boat interior. Probably go to a fishing  area like I found, in Nha Tran, Cam Ranh Bay, 1/3 of the way or so up  the coast.  Plus a lovely place to stay at $16 USD for ocean front  hotel, cheap seafood.  The wood should be cheaper as well.  My only  druthers would be to find out if the source of the wood is sustainably  harvested, for one's own conscience.  If there were little bits of  welding to be done, I am sure it could also be done there.  The  Vietnamese are basically "Asian Brent Swains", in my estimation;  they  make do brilliantly with what little they have under conditions of very  scarce resources.  Every street seems to have a little shop with  someone welding up something, especially fixing motorcycle frames.   While I still have not determined if it would be economically feasible  to have a hull welded up there (cost of steel might be same), I am  quite sure the interior fit-out would be worth it.  Just do all your  plywood components first, or take the ply with you and have it  installed there, as I don't know the availability of the stuff there.   I saw some really nice tropical hardwoods being used there, and wood is  a favoured material there for many things, so definitely people are  familiar with it.  Alex   On 18-Dec-05, at 1:41 AM, Puck III wrote:  > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "jim_both" <stainless316@o...> >  wrote: >  > >  > I think you just returned from Viet Nam?  If so, I was considering  >  > going there to get the interior of my yacht completed.  It's not  > that >  > far from Australia, and I have some connections there in one of the >  > port cities.  I would just rough-out the interior and store all the >  > fittings I couldn't source in Viet Nam.  All the welding would be >  done >  > and the boat basically sea-worthy.  I would just need to do all the >  > cabinet/carpentry/fiberglass work, which could make it possible to >  get >  > in the water a year earlier than otherwise.  From the short time you >  > spent there, do you tink that this is a feasible option? >  > >  > The other alternative would be to have a small workshop onboard and >  > fit out when cruising. >  > Thanks,  Jim >  > > http://boatdesign.net/forums/showthread.php?t=299&goto=nextoldest >  just a link to building overseas thoughts > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com >  To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:  > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > SPONSORED LINKS > British columbia canada > Vancouver island > Yacht > Victoria bc > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > 	▪ 	 Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web. >   > 	▪ 	 To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >  origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com >   > 	▪ 	 Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of  > Service. > >   [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
9907|9889|2005-12-18 09:32:27|Puck III|Re: Question for Alex|Hi Jim , some options if I may , your idea is fine if you follow some rules .  all the godies you want to install in your boat should be fixed !! , not in the boxes or as parts.  you can make a simple mecano mount kitchen , loo and some bunks you can use for reaching  your destination .  why ? do not leave customs the option to declare you are importing parts . it may seem unlogic to you , do not forget you will be seen as a capitalist even on the smallest even not yet equiped boat.  when entering the country you choose , tell everyone you need to do some engine repairs and try to obtain the longest possible stay permit .  tell no one your intention or you will be submerged by agents or middelman to avoid at all costs.  do never enter a yard , where you could be subjected to all sorts of costs for anything even afther the work is finished , so stay on your own turf always .  living onboard is always the best option , or you could hire a crewmember to look at your interests [ always hire a pro with no possible connection to the people finishing your boat]  you can hire an independant watertaxidriver by the day , to watertaxi you around and to show you what you are interested in : making pics from the yards  or small family businesses where boatfurniture and adapting it into your boat is done . do not tell your watertaxi driver you wanne buy or he will bring you where he will get the highest commission . all you need is a watertaxidriver that speaks your language to translate , cause ofthen small shops will be runed by illiterate people .  I see the Philipines , Thailand and Bangalore in south India as a possible alternative for what you  have in mind . Easy enough to choose between people used to the work and the finish you expect.  Only agree to prefinance the wood , nothing else and nothing more , when something is well build and well installed on your boat , you pay the guy in cash and you make him sign a receipt for full payment of due balance for everything separatly . Stick if possible to your action plan ,keep sort of a log and account book . So no one can claim anything more once the job is done .  Do not forget , laws , habits and customs differ all over the world . Well prepared you will be very happy , cause in most countries there are export taxes for non worked on raw materials so the wood and the labor is cheap , if you choose well you will find people with an expertise almost lost in the western world and you will end up with a better finished boat than you ever imagined possible for such a small price.   Voila , thats all for now , just lett me know if you want more info and or adresses.  Old Ben  --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Alex Christie <achristie@s...>  wrote:  > > Hi Jim, >  > I saw good quality woodworking in Vietnam, and I think it would be   an   > excellent place to fit out a boat interior. Probably go to a   fishing   > area like I found, in Nha Tran, Cam Ranh Bay, 1/3 of the way or so   up   > the coast.  Plus a lovely place to stay at $16 USD for ocean front  > hotel, cheap seafood.  The wood should be cheaper as well.  My only  > druthers would be to find out if the source of the wood is   sustainably   > harvested, for one's own conscience.  If there were little bits of  > welding to be done, I am sure it could also be done there.  The  > Vietnamese are basically "Asian Brent Swains", in my estimation;    they   > make do brilliantly with what little they have under conditions of   very   > scarce resources.  Every street seems to have a little shop with  > someone welding up something, especially fixing motorcycle frames.   > While I still have not determined if it would be economically   feasible   > to have a hull welded up there (cost of steel might be same), I am  > quite sure the interior fit-out would be worth it.  Just do all   your   > plywood components first, or take the ply with you and have it  > installed there, as I don't know the availability of the stuff   there.    > I saw some really nice tropical hardwoods being used there, and   wood is   > a favoured material there for many things, so definitely people are  > familiar with it. >  > Alex >  > On 18-Dec-05, at 1:41 AM, Puck III wrote: >  > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "jim_both"   <stainless316@o...>  > >  wrote: > >  > > >  > I think you just returned from Viet Nam?  If so, I was   considering   > >  > going there to get the interior of my yacht completed.  It's   not   > > that > >  > far from Australia, and I have some connections there in one   of the  > >  > port cities.  I would just rough-out the interior and store   all the  > >  > fittings I couldn't source in Viet Nam.  All the welding   would be  > >  done > >  > and the boat basically sea-worthy.  I would just need to do   all the  > >  > cabinet/carpentry/fiberglass work, which could make it   possible to  > >  get > >  > in the water a year earlier than otherwise.  From the short   time you  > >  > spent there, do you tink that this is a feasible option? > >  > > >  > The other alternative would be to have a small workshop   onboard and  > >  > fit out when cruising. > >  > Thanks,  Jim > >  > > > http://boatdesign.net/forums/showthread.php?t=299&goto=nextoldest > >  just a link to building overseas thoughts > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > >  To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:  > > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > SPONSORED LINKS > > British columbia canada > > Vancouver island > > Yacht > > Victoria bc > > > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > > > 	▪ 	 Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web. > >   > > 	▪ 	 To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > >  origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > >   > > 	▪ 	 Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!   Terms of   > > Service. > > > > >  >  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > |
9908|9908|2005-12-18 10:25:23|a_admi|---   GT 32   ---|From: origamiboats2@yahoogroups.com  Date: Sun Dec 18, 2005  4:12 pm   Subject: New file uploaded to origamiboats2   origamiboats2@yahoogroups.com    Hello,  This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the origamiboats2 group.  File : /Pr‚sentation GT 32 - A4 -.pdf Uploaded by : ben_azo <ben_azo@...> Description : GT-32 - JP Brouns : http://www.brouns.info  You can access this file at the URL: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats2/files/Pr%80%A0%A0%92% A2sentation%20G\ T%2032%20-%20A4%20-.pdf|
9909|9901|2005-12-18 10:34:25|cirejay|Re: new origami design: ROVER 36|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Gerd" <yago@j...> wrote:  > > sorry, problem in the link, with the comma stuck to it at the end it  > does not work, try this  > http://www.justmueller.com/boats/_files/rover36/rover36.htm > by the way, is there a way to edit/correct posts once they are up?   At first look, I like it!    eric S/V Nebaras|
9910|9893|2005-12-18 14:08:24|silascrosby|Re: port sealing|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "prairiemaidca" <bforster@i...>  wrote:  > > Hey Steve:  How were the ports on SilasCrosby sealed to prevent  > leakes??  I hope to be doing that procedure in the spring.  Martin  > (Prairie Maid) >  Martin, We used lexan and sealed them with GE Silicone II( as was  recommended on the lexan info. It has worked fairly well. No leaks at  all for 6 -8 yrs , then the occasional annoying drip in heavy rain.  These were solved by smearing a thin film of silicone over the joint  with my finger once a year. The ports that leak are all on the  starboard side ( sunny side where I am tied up at the dock - another  argument for mooring out).   I just replaced the ports in the pilothouse as they were becoming  quite opaque after 13 yrs. I replaced them with plexiglass ; cheaper,  more UV resistant, and not as strong . Hopefully because of the small  size of the ports the lesser strength is not a problem.  Steve.|
9911|9880|2005-12-18 14:29:24|silascrosby|Re: Swain boats Racing?|Jesse, How about some racing at a BS boat rendezvous? I think an  earlier posting suggested next Aug/Sept at Newcastle Island. I would  love to participate in something like this. No handicapping, just  boat-for -boat. Different size propellers,mast and boom lengths,  keel configurations , and sail sizes and ages could all be compared  on the water. Maybe even do a longer distance race for keeners.  It would also give a chance for builders ( prospective or current)  to crew and decide about certain features.  I think the light-air performance of these boats is adequate but  they are clearly not race boats.Some cruising boats do very well  racing. A Westsail 32 won a race from S.F. to Hawaii 6-7 yrs ago  (West Marine Pacific Cup ?). They had a complete new set of good  sails,a full crew and perfect conditions. They were able to drive  the boat at hull-speed most of the way. They were a long way from  line-honours but had a favourable rating. The Pardys on 'Taliesin'  race very successfully with no propeller or aperture , excellent  sails, and a clean bottom. My sails ( Main and Yankee) were new 7 yrs ago and are showing signs  of age. Am I going to spend another 3 or 4 thousand dollars for an  extra 1/2 knot hard on the wind and 10 - 15 degrees higher  pointing ? That is quite a big improvement if you like sailing ,but  that kind of money buys a lot of time in Mexico or whereever.  So ,not yet.  When do you hope to get your boat in the water and sailing?     cheers, Steve|
9912|9889|2005-12-18 18:05:58|Alex Christie|steel boatbuilding in India|I checked this site out many months ago ---   http://www.kondosyokai.com/gazelle/  They build junk-rigged colvin  gazelles for a killer price of around $55,000 I seem to recall,  including inboard diesel.  They should know how to outfit a steel boat,  and maybe dealing direct with the yard would give you the most hands on  control over the outcome, including costs.  The yard is located in Fort  Cochin, on the west coast of India in the state of Kerala.  The photos  look beautiful, and the yard has  accommodations with a panoramic views  for boat owners that look very nice indeed, all on 10 acres of private  land.  Having just returned from warmth of Vietnam, I'm all for  boatbuilding holidays in warm places!  If I could find or set up  something just like this in Vietnam it would be ideal.  Alex|
9913|9892|2005-12-18 22:17:26|mickeyolaf|Re: Any foam crews near comox|Phone Wolf at Wolf Boats in Courtenay. His number is 250-334-0027. He had a crew come  in and foam my Swain 36 a couple of weeks ago. I have been too busy to call him and get  their names and numbers. I'm sure they would come over. It's only one ferry ride.    --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "jericoera" <jericoera@y...> wrote: > > I am just trying to find out who will foam my boat over here in Powlel  > River when it is ready for it--any crews recommended? >  > Carl McIntosh > |
9914|9914|2005-12-18 22:32:48|Alex|Origamiboats Three|I've created Group 3, so now we can go ahead and use that for extra photos.  Just tell  everyone which group you've put the photos in once you've done it.  Looks like we can  keep creating groups til the cows come home, so go ahead and upload reasonable sized  photos (it fills really fast if you upload 1mb photos where a 50 or 80Kb photo will do fine!  Alex|
9915|9914|2005-12-18 23:58:09|Puck III|Re: Origamiboats Three|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Alex" <achristie@s...> wrote:  > > I've created Group 3, so now we can go ahead and use that for extra   photos.  Just tell   > everyone which group you've put the photos in once you've done it.    Looks like we can   > keep creating groups til the cows come home, so go ahead and upload   reasonable sized   > photos (it fills really fast if you upload 1mb photos where a 50 or   80Kb photo will do fine!  >  > Alex >  From: "Puck III" <ben_azo@...>  Date: Mon Dec 19, 2005  5:52 am  Subject: --- Origamiboats3 Photo Overflow ---       Thanks Alex , succes  !!!    Old Ben|
9916|9916|2005-12-19 15:45:37|liaa1970 1970|find  more  HOT  packages  from   http://www.keralaholidays.info/Pa|find  more  HOT   packages  from   http://www.keralaholidays.info/Packages.php       Send instant messages to your online friends http://in.messenger.yahoo.com   [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]|
9917|9916|2005-12-19 16:58:43|Ray|Re: find  more  HOT  packages  from   http://www.keralaholidays.inf|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, liaa1970 1970 <liaa19701970@y...>  wrote:  > >      find  more  HOT   packages  from     http://www.keralaholidays.info/Packages.php  >      >  > Send instant messages to your online friends   http://in.messenger.yahoo.com   >  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >   Can we delete this crap?|
9918|9889|2005-12-19 17:42:41|jim_both|Re: Question for Alex|Thanks Alex and Ben;  Qui Nhon is just north of Nha Tran; my friend is related to the Harbor  Master there, so if I can tie things down and organize things properly  I may have a good chance of working through this plan.  I agree with  you, Alex; the Vietnamese are extremely resourceful and also have a  history of boat building, as well as using old and modern  technologies.    The biggest drawback is lack of information; they don't have an  internet presence, and correspondence can also be a problem, even if I  knew who to write to.. I think I should visit there first before  sailing off and hoping for the best.  Cheers,  Jim|
9919|9889|2005-12-19 18:13:26|jim_both|Re: Question for Alex|By the way, Alex- I found some information on Vietnamese steel prices; if you can read  vienamese!  http://www.vietnamwebsite.net/portal/links.php?cat=85  I'm a bit surprized that this would be a pivotal point for your  planning, since in the overall scheme of things this would only make a  small percentage difference in the overall costs.  Jim|
9920|9914|2005-12-19 19:01:36|kingsknight4life|Re: Origamiboats Three|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III" <ben_azo@h...> wrote:  > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Alex" <achristie@s...> wrote: > > > > I've created Group 3, so now we can go ahead and use that for   extra   > photos.   > >  > > Alex > > > Hi.   Alex, can you post a link?  Thanks rowland|
9921|9880|2005-12-19 21:01:51|Alex Christie|Re: Swain boats Racing?|Hope I'm there for that proposed rendezvous at Newcastle island, even  in a bare ballasted hull with a set of used sails (bedsheets, even, as  long as it moves the boat!) -- something to work for! Brent and I will  be making a go at the boat hull in the new year doing final welding  runs and prepping for paint/foam/lead, as well as gathering more film  footage for the next volume of the film, and would really love to get  our boat in the water by then.  Alex    On 18-Dec-05, at 11:26 AM, silascrosby wrote:  > Jesse, How about some racing at a BS boat rendezvous? I think an >  earlier posting suggested next Aug/Sept at Newcastle Island. I would >    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
9922|9889|2005-12-19 21:12:32|Alex Christie|boatbuilding in Vietnam|Jim,  My Vietnamese girlfriend with whom I travelled is capably english  speaking and a hard-nosed negotiator (as she proved many times for me  in the markets).   I left her a copy of my film as she wanted to absorb  all aspects of the boatbuilding system and the general philosophy.  She  could easily handle correspondence/translation, as she is not working  right now and is free to go back there on our behalf.  I will be going  back to Vietnam as well (I'd go back next week if it weren't for that  thing called Christmas, hehehe) and already intended on heading back up  to that area sometime to do a more thorough look around. Maybe we  should meet there at the same time! Nha Trang area seem to be a  boatbuidling hotspot, with lots of wood around and the skill of the  craftsmen there is obvious wherever you look.  We might be able to work  together on this, you never know.  Building an entire boat there maybe  isn't so easy (I had pondered this), but the fitting out makes a lot of  sense.  I think Ben had concerns about customs agents checking out all the gear  a person would bring in.  Well, despite the fact that this is a fairly  watchful country, I found that foreigners are given a very wide berth  when entering the country.  If you arrived with boxes of different  gear, electronics, winches, anything, all you need to do is fill in the  yellow customs form which indicates what it is you are bringing in, and  the approximate value.  Then, when you exit the country, all you need  to do, if they even ask (they didn't check my paper against my  electronics such as video camera and digital cam), you simply show them  where each item is installed in your boat.  All they are doing is  guarding against uncontrolled importation of foreign goods into the  market place in order to maintain local economic stability for good   produced in-country, same as is done here in Canada and the USA, or  most anywhere.  I expected to be grilled on the way in and on the way  out (I brought tons of gifts I didn't even declare), possibly given the  probe, but it never happened, just got waved through with less hassle  than coming back to my own country.  Internet is very common in Vietnam, available on nearly ever street at  cafes and dedicated shops, and expanding rapidly with ADSL high speed  service in all major centres.  The place is catching up FAST with other  more modern asian countries.  I am chagrinned to find out from my gf  that ADSL only costs about $6 per month after your $30 set-up fee, and  you only spend more if you overdo the downloading of music, movies, and  other high bandwidth activities.  Same thing with cellular service  there, cheap, cheap, cheap.  We are being rippped off here in North  America by the telecom companies BIG TIME.  Alex  Still getting used to snow...    On 19-Dec-05, at 2:41 PM, jim_both wrote:  > Thanks Alex and Ben; > >  Qui Nhon is just north of Nha Tran; my friend is related to the Harbor >  Master there, so if I can tie things down and organize things properly >  I may have a good chance of working through this plan.  I agree with >  you, Alex; the Vietnamese are extremely resourceful and also have a >  history of boat building, as well as using old and modern >  technologies.  > >  The biggest drawback is lack of information; they don't have an >  internet presence, and correspondence can also be a problem, even if I >  knew who to write to.. I think I should visit there first before >  sailing off and hoping for the best. > >  Cheers,  Jim > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com >  To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:  > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > 	▪ 	 Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web. >   > 	▪ 	 To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >  origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com >   > 	▪ 	 Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of  > Service. > >   [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
9923|9889|2005-12-19 21:34:44|Alex Christie|boatbuilding in Viet Nam|I'll ask my gf in Vietnam to have a quick look at that page and tell us  if there is anything noteworthy on it about prices, as I am very  curious.  If we are being gouged in N.A. the same way we get gouged for  telecom, we might be in luck.  Even gas, 92 octane, is cheaper there  than in Canada, at a constant 9500 VND/litre, or 60 cents per liter  USD, 70 cents CDN). We are paying about a dollar/litre CDN here for 92  octane.  I am not so sure it that the steel pricing was a pivotal point in my  overall scheme, but I've found that you have to make sure you hold the  line on all costs, shaving a bit off wherever you can, and this does make a  difference in the outcome when you add it all up.  Based on Brent's method of scrounging (I mean, the guy found me a 4x8  sheet of 3/4" ply floating in the sea and snagged it for me, for which  I am grateful!), the costs here could be almost next to nothing (Brent  continues to haul in smaller scraps of ply which will all go in the  boat in the form of shelves and other things), but I figure if you want  a real swank interior gleaming with beautiful wood gleaming with many  coats of varnish, then you might save a lot fitting out there.  Having  returned from there a little over a week ago, there are now many hidden  factors that I am adding to my notions about fitting out there, like  cheap food, a concurrent enjoyment of a mild tropical climate while the  rest of my countrymen/women slog through slush and sleet with red  noses, cheap accommodations, and the interesting cultural interactions.    Whenever I take on any venture like this, I always add in the side  benefits of being in a place like this as contributing factors to my  decision.  Given the costs of sailing there for me, it is entirely  possible I could end up spending the same, I really don't know yet!  Alex  Missing being able to take 4 hungry friends to a restaurant at the Nha  Trang Sailing Club and stuffing them full with high quality gourmet  food for $11 total bill....     On 19-Dec-05, at 3:13 PM, jim_both wrote:  > By the way, Alex- >  I found some information on Vietnamese steel prices; if you can read >  vienamese! > > http://www.vietnamwebsite.net/portal/links.php?cat=85 > >  I'm a bit surprized that this would be a pivotal point for your >  planning, since in the overall scheme of things this would only make a >  small percentage difference in the overall costs. > >  Jim > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com >  To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:  > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > SPONSORED LINKS > British columbia canada > Vancouver island > Yacht > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > 	▪ 	 Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web. >   > 	▪ 	 To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >  origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com >   > 	▪ 	 Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of  > Service. > >   [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
9924|9924|2005-12-19 23:30:12|Puck III|---   Wheels in water :-)   ---|Have you ever thought you were having a Bad Day .  http://www.idiots-guide.org/badday.htm  Just Be Thankfull  Old Ben|
9925|9924|2005-12-20 00:15:49|Michael Casling|Re: ---   Wheels in water :-)   ---|When you look at the last picture of the green crane, you will notice that there is a red car in the background where a green van used to be. The green van appears to now be behind the green crane.  It would be hard to do that in the space of a few seconds. The last picture has been shown to be doctored. Also when the pictures were first published the green crane had successfully removed the first crane. The doctored pictures came out some time later. You can never always believe what you see and read on the internet.  Michael      ----- Original Message -----    From: Puck III    To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com    Sent: Monday, December 19, 2005 8:29 PM   Subject: [origamiboats] --- Wheels in water :-) ---     Have you ever thought you were having a Bad Day .    http://www.idiots-guide.org/badday.htm    Just Be Thankfull    Old Ben         To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com   To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com     ------------------------------------------------------------------------------   YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS       a..  Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web.            b..  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:      origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com            c..  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
9926|9924|2005-12-20 00:52:45|Jon & Wanda(Tink)|Re: ---   Wheels in water :-)   ---|I found some of the other storys very interesting too  Jon  --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Michael Casling <casling@s...>  wrote:  > > When you look at the last picture of the green crane, you will   notice that there is a red car in the background where a green van  used to be. The green van appears to now be behind the green crane.   > It would be hard to do that in the space of a few seconds. > The last picture has been shown to be doctored. > Also when the pictures were first published the green crane had   successfully removed the first crane. The doctored pictures came out  some time later.  > You can never always believe what you see and read on the internet. >  > Michael >  >  >   ----- Original Message -----  >   From: Puck III  >   To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com  >   Sent: Monday, December 19, 2005 8:29 PM >   Subject: [origamiboats] --- Wheels in water :-) --- >  >  >   Have you ever thought you were having a Bad Day . >  >   http://www.idiots-guide.org/badday.htm >  >   Just Be Thankfull >  >   Old Ben >  >  >  >  >  >  >   To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com >   To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-  unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com   >  >  >  > --------------------------------------------------------------------  ----------  >   YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS  >  >     a..  Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web. >        >     b..  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >      origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com >        >     c..  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms   of Service.   >  >  > --------------------------------------------------------------------  ----------  >  >  >  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > |
9927|9889|2005-12-20 01:04:11|Puck III|Re: boatbuilding in Vietnam|Hi Alex , nothing wrong with Vietnam , on the contrary , I was just cautioning people about some heavy surcharges : scam boating in Google Search = 1.860.000 hits! Appart from some comments you will find a Belgian 2005 hard to swallow overcharge here-under .  --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Alex Christie <achristie@s...>  wrote:  > > Jim, >  > My Vietnamese girlfriend with whom I travelled is capably english  > speaking and a hard-nosed negotiator (as she proved many times for   me   > in the markets).   I left her a copy of my film as she wanted to   absorb   > all aspects of the boatbuilding system and the general philosophy.    She   > could easily handle correspondence/translation, as she is not   working   > right now and is free to go back there on our behalf.  I will be   going   > back to Vietnam as well (I'd go back next week if it weren't for   that   > thing called Christmas, hehehe) and already intended on heading   back up   > to that area sometime to do a more thorough look around. Maybe we  > should meet there at the same time! Nha Trang area seem to be a  > boatbuidling hotspot, with lots of wood around and the skill of the  > craftsmen there is obvious wherever you look.  We might be able to   work   > together on this, you never know.  Building an entire boat there   maybe   > isn't so easy (I had pondered this), but the fitting out makes a   lot of   > sense. >  > I think Ben had concerns about customs agents checking out all the   gear   > a person would bring in.  Well, despite the fact that this is a   fairly   > watchful country, I found that foreigners are given a very wide   berth   > when entering the country.     One of my friends does extreemly well in Vietnam , building Food and WaterSilos , from our design offcourse . He is extreemly happy in Vietnam , his girlfriend looks like  the darling in " Good Morning America " ,one of my favorites !     >If you arrived with boxes of different  > gear, electronics, winches, anything, all you need to do is fill in   the   > yellow customs form which indicates what it is you are bringing in,   and   > the approximate value.  Then, when you exit the country, all you   need   > to do, if they even ask (they didn't check my paper against my  > electronics such as video camera and digital cam), you simply show   them   > where each item is installed in your boat.  All they are doing is  > guarding against uncontrolled importation of foreign goods into the  > market place in order to maintain local economic stability for   good    > produced in-country, same as is done here in Canada and the USA, or  > most anywhere.  I expected to be grilled on the way in and on the   way   > out (I brought tons of gifts I didn't even declare), possibly given   the   > probe, but it never happened, just got waved through with less   hassle   > than coming back to my own country. >  > Internet is very common in Vietnam, available on nearly ever street   at   > cafes and dedicated shops, and expanding rapidly with ADSL high   speed   > service in all major centres.  The place is catching up FAST with   other   > more modern asian countries.  I am chagrinned to find out from my   gf   > that ADSL only costs about $6 per month after your $30 set-up fee,   and   > you only spend more if you overdo the downloading of music, movies,   and   > other high bandwidth activities.  Same thing with cellular service  > there, cheap, cheap, cheap.  We are being rippped off here in North  > America by the telecom companies BIG TIME. >  > Alex >  > Still getting used to snow...   On august 7 , I have send the " Wheels in Water " Link : http://www.idiots-guide.org/badday.htm in a response letter to a nice French Guy .  Earlyer in the year a collegue in France asked me to see what I could do for somebody he knew , not even a client .  Confronted with some strange facts , while onboard a nice sailing boat in Belgium , I proposed to the 2 nice guys on board to go and bye some food and drinks [ always first on my wishlist ] and I told them I was going with them as crew , to pass the Lock I only know to well and do some tests . When asked what I would tell the lockmaster , I answered them : that I knew the lockmaster and that in case I was asked , I would answer I wanted to do some sea-trials.  I told them I would akt as their captain and that so they where only to follow orders as usual .  I was stupid , cause when asked more , I told them that I  was gone sail the boat to a realy nearby French harbor :-)  In a scared reflex one of the co-owners of the boat, called his Belgian lawyer , who told him: this would not look nice in the eyes of a Belgian Court .  So I accepted a nice dinner and drinks in a restaurant in town and went home.  I have off course all on pdf files . In the 30.06.2005Judgement.pdf file  [ I can post it in Origamiboats3 on request ] I can read : -205.955,00- Euro Bankgarantee is to be issued , http://www.xe.com/ucc/  conversion reads :   - $ 246.505,00--    Experts , Lawyers , the system....... all make money , the Frenchies are happy their money makes a small interest in a French Bank. I hope for the best outcome for them.  The Belgian yard had an outstanding reputation for years, still carries the same name , but has been bought by people making an investment for the fastest return.  I have a beautifull collection of pdf-files with the same , ever repeating stories.....in many many countries ,I just chose a Belgian " problem " so no on could blame me to be partial.  The day stores have to give feedback , like done on eBay ( just look up ben_azo 's feedback :-) one could deal with more confidence.  So you all , think twice before deciding anything ! Asking for advise in places like this Group sure aint gone hurt no-one .Better smart than sorry .  In a way , experience is to know what went wrong :-) Did I lost money ? sure I did from time to time . Most off the time not :-)  " Live and learn " as Tom said in here , I like that one.  Sorry Guys , for the long post . Interesting ?? you tell me :-)  Old Ben  >  >  > On 19-Dec-05, at 2:41 PM, jim_both wrote: >  > > Thanks Alex and Ben; > > > >  Qui Nhon is just north of Nha Tran; my friend is related to the   Harbor  > >  Master there, so if I can tie things down and organize things   properly  > >  I may have a good chance of working through this plan.  I agree   with  > >  you, Alex; the Vietnamese are extremely resourceful and also   have a  > >  history of boat building, as well as using old and modern > >  technologies.  > > > >  The biggest drawback is lack of information; they don't have an > >  internet presence, and correspondence can also be a problem,   even if I  > >  knew who to write to.. I think I should visit there first before > >  sailing off and hoping for the best. > > > >  Cheers,  Jim > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > >  To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:  > > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > > > 	▪ 	 Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web. > >   > > 	▪ 	 To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > >  origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > >   > > 	▪ 	 Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!   Terms of   > > Service. > > > > >  >  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > |
9928|9889|2005-12-20 03:26:26|Denis Buggy|Re: boatbuilding in Vietnam|......  Same thing with cellular service  there, cheap, cheap, cheap.  We are being rippped off here in North  America by the telecom companies BIG TIME.  Alex       dear alex  i met a irishman at a conference who said he had 150,000 new customers a month  for his mobile phone system which was banned in europe and the us as the goverments could not tax his system " properly"  most of his chinese customers  have never made a phone call before and the chinese gov are extremly greatful for his efforts to enable the population communicate for 12 dollars us a month unlimited calls  and wait for it his local call are free free free for ever . how ? . my phone and yours can transmit to each other without a network if allowed by the bastards we deal with all you need is a tweak of software on each phone as they are already a transmitter and reciever  for local calls . happy christmas to all the little people     -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS     --------------------------------------------------------------------------------     [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]|
9929|9889|2005-12-20 04:56:27|Puck III|Re: boatbuilding in Vietnam|Hi Alex , hi Denis , another interesting Link to boatbuilding in Vietnam :  http://www.tcdialogue.be/en/whoiswho.php  see Communication  Dep. External Relations . Ferdinand Van Wichelen .  go first over the complete website , off Topic but interesting in my eyes  my old friend and former associate Ferdinand Van Wichelen , is the former Belgian Ambassador to Vietnam , Hongkong e.o. he gives a lot of free time to development project , the same as I do realy .  Years ago [ I keep the mail ] he told me allready that a new market was emerging in Vietnam . The former American GI's wanting to go back to Vietnam , for a short or longer visit .  Last year I was invited to Vietnam by a Vietnamese company, [ importer of a famous German Car ] for a visit and a cruise on the mayor river .  We [ me & associates ] designed and build more than 3 :-) rivercruisers to carry passengers on those lazy Nyle Cruises in Egypt . Those boats are still bringing in money every day and I was asked to translate that operating mode to the Vietnamese conditions where distances are much much longer.  Honestly , I was more scared for the bird's flew than for an African buffalo :-) so I keep postponing the trip...  A old Flemish Fisherman aint no chicken , so if you go , I could go to ; to that Origamiboats Vietnamese reunion :-)  The Vietnamese secretary doing the correspondance for that Vietnamese company , maried a Dutchman a while ago and lives in Holland now . I could ask here to spread the word I was comming , cause I still keep thinking about  the " Good Morning America " darling ; I am always looking for a good crew member , meaning good health , good cooking , good company etcetera.  What a small world this realy is .  Denis , I hope the pics I posted for you in :  http://www.buildingyourboat.com/tiki-browse_gallery.php?galleryId=4  were usefull ,I was rather surprized to see how many people saw those pics allready , I like the tellersystem , especialy for of Topic pics , on the other hand , if it can be  Origami designed and build.... it's ON TOPIC :-)  Old Ben   --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Denis Buggy" <buggy@i...> wrote: > >   ......  Same thing with cellular service  > there, cheap, cheap, cheap.  We are being rippped off here in North  > America by the telecom companies BIG TIME. >  > Alex >       dear alex  i met a irishman at a conference who said he had  150,000 new customers a month  for his mobile phone system which was  banned in europe and the us as the goverments could not tax his  system " properly"  most of his chinese customers  have never made a  phone call before and the chinese gov are extremly greatful for his  efforts to enable the population communicate for 12 dollars us a  month unlimited calls  and wait for it his local call are free free  free for ever . how ? . my phone and yours can transmit to each other  without a network if allowed by the bastards we deal with all you  need is a tweak of software on each phone as they are already a  transmitter and reciever  for local calls . happy christmas to all  the little people  >  >  >  > -------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------ > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS  >  >  >  > -------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------ >  >  >  >  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > |
9930|9889|2005-12-20 16:50:59|jim_both|Re: boatbuilding in Vietnam|Sounds like a plan, Alex - maybe later in 2006.  Please keep me  posted. Cheers,  Jim    "I will be going back to Vietnam as well (I'd go back next week if it  weren't for that thing called Christmas, hehehe) and already intended  on heading back up to that area sometime to do a more thorough look  around. Maybe we should meet there at the same time! Nha Trang area  seem to be a boatbuidling hotspot, with lots of wood around and the  skill of the craftsmen there is obvious wherever you look.  We might  be able to work  together on this, you never know."|
9931|9931|2005-12-20 23:01:20|Puck III|---   New NW passage project   ---|Hi All , some may be interested . Find Links , construction & sailingpics in  http://www.buildingyourboat.com/tiki-browse_gallery.php?galleryId=4  no Wheels yet , do I see skis ???  Old Ben|
9932|9932|2005-12-21 11:18:50|SHANE ROTHWELL|foaming|having just had a couple of 20' containers sprayed on the celings I can tell you one thing. make damned sure that the steel is not cold or the foam won't expand to anything near what it should (& the foam guys figure on using "x" amount of material, not finnished thickness)  also, the container outfits use a urithane calking along all interior welds. I got some of it from them (will send the product name 2moro) & it works really well. I used it to seal the edges of the foam & would recommend it be used anywhere there is a termination of the foam to be sure of stopping any potential ingress of moisture.  Cheers, Shane   	  	 		 __________________________________________________________  Find your next car at http://autos.yahoo.ca|
9933|9889|2005-12-21 12:38:44|claudepoitras|Re: boatbuilding in Viet Nam|Alex, doo they still speek some french in VietNam? A lot of the Vietnamees that I meet in Canada speek french. Claude|
9934|9889|2005-12-21 19:24:23|Alex Christie|Re: boatbuilding in Viet Nam|Claude,  There is some French speaking in Vietnam, but not at all as common as  English, especially among the younger people.  It was more common in  some areas than others (Da Lat), reflecting the different levels of  colonial influence in certain parts of the country.  Older people know  it more, and some tour guides know it too.  Alex    On 21-Dec-05, at 9:38 AM, claudepoitras wrote:  > Alex, doo they still speek some french in VietNam? >  A lot of the Vietnamees that I meet in Canada speek french. >  Claude   [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
9935|9931|2005-12-22 03:44:39|edward_stoneuk|Re: ---   New NW passage project   ---|Hi Ben,  There are photos of Dove III the 26' Northwest passager in the photos  section of this site. Regards, Ted         --|
9936|9931|2005-12-22 06:35:56|Puck III|Re: ---   New NW passage project   ---|Hi Ted , people from other Groups where I post do not know that , so I posted a Link to this Group , see : http://www.buildingyourboat.com/tiki-browse_gallery.php?galleryId=4 Image Name: Dove III  Created: Wednesday 21 of December, 2005 [03:48:00 UTC]  Hits: 81  Description: NW passage Veteran - more pics in  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/ photosections  Author: ben_azo   81 people had a look until now , may be some will become a member in this Group , and order Brent Swain's plans , that's the idea .  The net is based on Links realy , some are spam :-) , some are good for the interested.  Anybody pics what he or she likes . I realy think we all can benefit from a positive attitude towards the veterans and towards new ideas , especialy if an Origami design and build are in the making .  Alex video realy convinced me that a simple , much timesaving constructionmethod is the best option for any amateurbuilder.  Not to many words , good film going in detail over everything ,nice music in the background ...... I became a Fan , it's that simple . When I like something I lett it know ,when I disagree to .  From time to time I am unhappy........ I received no respons for that special Dinghy idea.....  I will shut up about it......until someone has a real interest to persue the idea :-)  Regards  Old Ben  -------------------------------------------------------------- --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "edward_stoneuk" <tedstone@g...>  wrote:  > > Hi Ben, >  > There are photos of Dove III the 26' Northwest passager in the photos  > section of this site. > Regards, > Ted >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  > -- > |
9937|9937|2005-12-22 08:06:50|Jim Ragsdale|aluminum dingy|Ben,  Where did the picture of that aluminum origami dingy you posted come from? Are there any plans for that?       [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]|
9938|9937|2005-12-22 12:18:59|Puck III|Re: aluminum dingy|Hi Jim ,I do not remember exactly cause I saved that a long time ago cause I liked it simplicity . If I am not mistaken it must be in the pics from : http://www.boatbuilding.ws/ as dinghy on a Swain . I can be wrong , sorry if I am . I can't answer if they sell the plans , such plans are easy to make ,please post your  designgoal or wishlist for that ideal dinghy :-)  Old Ben  --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Jim Ragsdale" <echo6@c...>  wrote:  > > Ben, >  > Where did the picture of that aluminum origami dingy you posted   come from?  > Are there any plans for that? >  >   >  >  >  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > |
9939|9939|2005-12-23 01:36:14|richytill|sailing it|On Sunday afternoon, we hoisted a new main and a new genoa onto the  new rig of this origami steel 36 footer.  A bit under 5 years in the  making and we are ready to test My Island.   With the evening winter  sun refracting a spectrum of flaming orange, we set out from Gibsons  Landing, up Shoal Channel and out into the cool breezes of Georgia  Straight.  There are waiting moments, righting moments and the right moment:   this is it.  All canvas raised, boom sheeted to centre, genoa rolled  out to the last thread and what will happen I wonder as the breeze  freshens?  The boat heels soft at first moving lightly but moving  non-the-less in a brief puff of air; this is a pleasant surprise and  bodes well for the future.   Further out from Gower Point, The wind pushes down from Texada with  a bite that causes crew to huddle and the boat to heel down until  the leeward chine becomes a rail for 9 tons of metal and wood to  slide on.  She picks up: 4.8 knots, 5.2 and 5.7--we are sailing.  I have a racer buddy and a cruiser/engineering genius friend aboard  as evaluators and this boat performs beyond all our expectations.   It causes me to wonder how a truck load of steel lying inert on the  ground can become this animated vessel.  What does it take?  Easy to  forget all the welding rod stubbs and paint fumes and bills to pay  and things that didn't work now that she sails.    The running rigging needs more work as does our ability to read the  nuances of the vessel.  I ask Bob to release the tiller and the boat  sails on unattended.  He steps back with a nod of appreciation.   There can be no debate on this measure of performance--this is a  hull that tracks well.  Kris confirms that upwind performance is as  good as it gets for a cruiser.  I just revell in the sound of moving  water and moving hull interacing so sleek.  It is hard not to grin.   Sometimes a boat just feels right and right now, this one does.  We steer back to harbour as the sun sets over Vancouver Island each  with a different take on the situation.  It does take commitment to  build a boat of this size.  It takes patience and cash and lots and  lots of time.  There are, as Kipling hinted, moments of "triumph and  disaster" that make a man.  There are long faces and a good measure  of laughter to punctuate the building process.  All this said:  at  the end of the day, it still feels right.  rt|
9940|9939|2005-12-23 04:26:46|edward_stoneuk|Re: sailing it|Richy, Congratulations.  It makes me feel good reading about your first  sail.  I am only about n years behind. Regards, Ted|
9941|9939|2005-12-23 04:58:24|Puck III|Re: sailing it|Congratulations Richie , thanks for the test report . Keep us all posted . Old Ben   --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "richytill" <tillrc@h...> wrote: > > On Sunday afternoon, we hoisted a new main and a new genoa onto the  > new rig of this origami steel 36 footer.  A bit under 5 years in  the  > making and we are ready to test My Island.   With the evening  winter  > sun refracting a spectrum of flaming orange, we set out from  Gibsons  > Landing, up Shoal Channel and out into the cool breezes of Georgia  > Straight. >  > There are waiting moments, righting moments and the right moment:   > this is it.  All canvas raised, boom sheeted to centre, genoa  rolled  > out to the last thread and what will happen I wonder as the breeze  > freshens?  The boat heels soft at first moving lightly but moving  > non-the-less in a brief puff of air; this is a pleasant surprise  and  > bodes well for the future.  >  > Further out from Gower Point, The wind pushes down from Texada with  > a bite that causes crew to huddle and the boat to heel down until  > the leeward chine becomes a rail for 9 tons of metal and wood to  > slide on.  She picks up: 4.8 knots, 5.2 and 5.7--we are sailing. >  > I have a racer buddy and a cruiser/engineering genius friend aboard  > as evaluators and this boat performs beyond all our expectations.   > It causes me to wonder how a truck load of steel lying inert on the  > ground can become this animated vessel.  What does it take?  Easy  to  > forget all the welding rod stubbs and paint fumes and bills to pay  > and things that didn't work now that she sails.   >  > The running rigging needs more work as does our ability to read the  > nuances of the vessel.  I ask Bob to release the tiller and the  boat  > sails on unattended.  He steps back with a nod of appreciation.   > There can be no debate on this measure of performance--this is a  > hull that tracks well.  Kris confirms that upwind performance is as  > good as it gets for a cruiser.  I just revell in the sound of  moving  > water and moving hull interacing so sleek.  It is hard not to  grin.   > Sometimes a boat just feels right and right now, this one does. >  > We steer back to harbour as the sun sets over Vancouver Island each  > with a different take on the situation.  It does take commitment to  > build a boat of this size.  It takes patience and cash and lots and  > lots of time.  There are, as Kipling hinted, moments of "triumph  and  > disaster" that make a man.  There are long faces and a good measure  > of laughter to punctuate the building process.  All this said:  at  > the end of the day, it still feels right.  rt > |
9942|9931|2005-12-23 10:03:03|sae140|Re: ---   New NW passage project   ---|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III" <ben_azo@h...> wrote:    > From time to time I am unhappy........ > I received no respons for that special Dinghy idea..... >  > I will shut up about it......until someone > has a real interest to persue the idea :-) >  > Regards > Old Ben   What 'special dinghy' ?  Did I miss something ?  I like the look of Brent's ally job - especially the  encapsulated wheel at the transom. Proper job that.  Before seeing that idea, I'd made a pair of wheels  from a melted plastic wheelie-bin (it had said 'no  hot ashes' on the lid - but written in English !),  and an old outboard transom clamp.  Works, but not  the best of ideas.  I'd suggest a lockable flotation chamber to store 2-part oars, a baby outboard - or the shopping.  I'm also thinking of some kind of foolproof anti-theft  measure - like a 4" x 4" hole in the bottom - with  some kind of sealing clamp that could be removed and  carried around in a bag while ashore.  Colin|
9943|9943|2005-12-23 14:14:55|SHANE ROTHWELL|Richie re Sailing it|You have done that of which many of us have only thus far dreamed.  However, you forgot the ending, the only appropriate one being simply.....Amen.      	  	 		 __________________________________________________________  Find your next car at http://autos.yahoo.ca|
9944|9944|2005-12-23 17:39:22|khooper_fboats|Nigel Warren's "Marine Conversions" on eBay|Auction 8365635727 by an Australian seller, no shipping cost given  I mention this because it is a hard to find, very expensive book. I'm not bidding on it because my local library has it.  Note that this book does *not* give step-by-step instructions for marinizing any particular engine, nor does it deal with any engine you are likely to see in a boat (or even a junkyard) circa 2005. It is very dated all things considered. There is a lot of good information but it is certainly not definitive.  Where the book is unique, though, is in its treatment of transmissions. Warren thinks there is no reason you can't use an auto transmission in a boat, provided that you fabricate a thrust bearing. He also thinks it is a smart thing to have a clutch in a boat. And he provides info in significant detail on modifying standard auto gearboxes such that they have one forward and one reverse gear, both in the proper ratios for boating use.  Anyway, it is there if somebody wants to pick it up. This book is upwards of $100 new, if you can find it, and it *never* shows up used on eBay.  --Ken|
9945|9939|2005-12-23 19:49:32|Gary H. Lucas|Re: sailing it|Congratulations!  It has got to feel really wonderful.  I had the chance to  sail one of Brent's 36 footers on a trip out west about 3 years ago. The  pictures I took were posted here for a while.  You are right it, tracks like  it is on rails.  Good Luck,  Gary H. Lucas   ----- Original Message -----  From: "richytill" <tillrc@...> To: <origamiboats@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, December 23, 2005 1:33 AM Subject: [origamiboats] sailing it   > On Sunday afternoon, we hoisted a new main and a new genoa onto the > new rig of this origami steel 36 footer.  A bit under 5 years in the > making and we are ready to test My Island.   With the evening winter > sun refracting a spectrum of flaming orange, we set out from Gibsons > Landing, up Shoal Channel and out into the cool breezes of Georgia > Straight. > > There are waiting moments, righting moments and the right moment: > this is it.  All canvas raised, boom sheeted to centre, genoa rolled > out to the last thread and what will happen I wonder as the breeze > freshens?  The boat heels soft at first moving lightly but moving > non-the-less in a brief puff of air; this is a pleasant surprise and > bodes well for the future. > > Further out from Gower Point, The wind pushes down from Texada with > a bite that causes crew to huddle and the boat to heel down until > the leeward chine becomes a rail for 9 tons of metal and wood to > slide on.  She picks up: 4.8 knots, 5.2 and 5.7--we are sailing. > > I have a racer buddy and a cruiser/engineering genius friend aboard > as evaluators and this boat performs beyond all our expectations. > It causes me to wonder how a truck load of steel lying inert on the > ground can become this animated vessel.  What does it take?  Easy to > forget all the welding rod stubbs and paint fumes and bills to pay > and things that didn't work now that she sails. > > The running rigging needs more work as does our ability to read the > nuances of the vessel.  I ask Bob to release the tiller and the boat > sails on unattended.  He steps back with a nod of appreciation. > There can be no debate on this measure of performance--this is a > hull that tracks well.  Kris confirms that upwind performance is as > good as it gets for a cruiser.  I just revell in the sound of moving > water and moving hull interacing so sleek.  It is hard not to grin. > Sometimes a boat just feels right and right now, this one does. > > We steer back to harbour as the sun sets over Vancouver Island each > with a different take on the situation.  It does take commitment to > build a boat of this size.  It takes patience and cash and lots and > lots of time.  There are, as Kipling hinted, moments of "triumph and > disaster" that make a man.  There are long faces and a good measure > of laughter to punctuate the building process.  All this said:  at > the end of the day, it still feels right.  rt > > > > > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:  > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > |
9946|9946|2005-12-24 11:46:25|SHANE ROTHWELL|Spars & Winches|Ben & Tom,   One of my biggest cost concerns is cost of primary winches. Big ones are big bucks. At the same time they are pretty well indestructable.  After the 'foon (s) that hit the gulf coast there'd be a lot of busted boat stuff on the market, but may be that spars available may be rather munched being comparatively exposed.....Just a thot.   Merry Ho Ho you guys! Shane   	  	 		 __________________________________________________________  Find your next car at http://autos.yahoo.ca|
9947|9946|2005-12-24 12:07:10|Puck III|Re: Spars & Winches|Thanks Shane , you sure hit the nail well , the cost of winches ..... Second hand from the freshest wreck , dismanteling and disposing of the grp cost much to the insurers that become owners wanting to gett away with their unwanted property fast . France has new laws and smart people invested allready in plastic grinders to dispose of the many abandoned hulls . Sure some good winches to find in the US.  Happy ho ho to you to :-)  Old Ben  --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, SHANE ROTHWELL  <rockrothwell@y...> wrote:  > > Ben & Tom,  >  > One of my biggest cost concerns is cost of primary > winches. Big ones are big bucks. At the same time they > are pretty well indestructable. >  > After the 'foon (s) that hit the gulf coast there'd be > a lot of busted boat stuff on the market, but may be > that spars available may be rather munched being > comparatively exposed.....Just a thot. >  >  > Merry Ho Ho you guys! > Shane >  >  > 	 >  > 	 > 		 > __________________________________________________________  > Find your next car at http://autos.yahoo.ca > |
9948|9948|2005-12-24 12:45:29|Gerd|it's time to switch off your computers|.. and merry chrismas everybody ;-)  All the best, and may all your wildest dreams and plans for next year  come true. Thanks to you all for being such a great bunch of  people!! ;-)   Gerd The Yago proiject at http://www.justmueller.com/boats|
9949|9949|2005-12-24 13:52:23|John Waalkes|special dinghy?|Old Ben?  I must have missed that one,  I have looked at Brents dinghy & thought of attempting something simular. Now recently I have looked at suggestions of using fiberglass cloth encased foam sheets,  (1/2"-1") .  I think the flat sheets could be assembled using origami darts than stitch & tape like a plywood hull?  Havent thought out all details but if I had a formica or other smooth surface, wax & prep with release agent.  Wet out the F/G cloth than lay down the foam sheet with darts pre cut, wet down again covering with inside layer of F/G cloth rolling out to remove air bubbles before covering again with smooth surface sheets.  Let it harden, trim darts & edges, pull it together using nylon zip ties.  Maybe using canned spray foam to fill in chines ect before final taping.  Hmm something to think about.   Any ideas??   John W. in Alaska  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]|
9950|9939|2005-12-24 16:58:33|brentswain38|Re: sailing it|Congratulations.   Having sailed several badly balanced boats accross the Pacific and  having experienced the extreme frustration of being unable to get  them to sail in a straight line , I always made a high priority of  hull balance , per the section on balance in my book.  I hope to se you out on the cruising grounds this summer.  Brent    --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Gary H. Lucas"  <gary.lucas@v...> wrote:  > > Congratulations!  It has got to feel really wonderful.  I had the   chance to   > sail one of Brent's 36 footers on a trip out west about 3 years   ago. The   > pictures I took were posted here for a while.  You are right it,   tracks like   > it is on rails. >  > Good Luck, >  > Gary H. Lucas >  > ----- Original Message -----  > From: "richytill" <tillrc@h...> > To: <origamiboats@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Friday, December 23, 2005 1:33 AM > Subject: [origamiboats] sailing it >  >  > > On Sunday afternoon, we hoisted a new main and a new genoa onto   the  > > new rig of this origami steel 36 footer.  A bit under 5 years in   the  > > making and we are ready to test My Island.   With the evening   winter  > > sun refracting a spectrum of flaming orange, we set out from   Gibsons  > > Landing, up Shoal Channel and out into the cool breezes of Georgia > > Straight. > > > > There are waiting moments, righting moments and the right moment: > > this is it.  All canvas raised, boom sheeted to centre, genoa   rolled  > > out to the last thread and what will happen I wonder as the breeze > > freshens?  The boat heels soft at first moving lightly but moving > > non-the-less in a brief puff of air; this is a pleasant surprise   and  > > bodes well for the future. > > > > Further out from Gower Point, The wind pushes down from Texada   with  > > a bite that causes crew to huddle and the boat to heel down until > > the leeward chine becomes a rail for 9 tons of metal and wood to > > slide on.  She picks up: 4.8 knots, 5.2 and 5.7--we are sailing. > > > > I have a racer buddy and a cruiser/engineering genius friend   aboard  > > as evaluators and this boat performs beyond all our expectations. > > It causes me to wonder how a truck load of steel lying inert on   the  > > ground can become this animated vessel.  What does it take?  Easy   to  > > forget all the welding rod stubbs and paint fumes and bills to pay > > and things that didn't work now that she sails. > > > > The running rigging needs more work as does our ability to read   the  > > nuances of the vessel.  I ask Bob to release the tiller and the   boat  > > sails on unattended.  He steps back with a nod of appreciation. > > There can be no debate on this measure of performance--this is a > > hull that tracks well.  Kris confirms that upwind performance is   as  > > good as it gets for a cruiser.  I just revell in the sound of   moving  > > water and moving hull interacing so sleek.  It is hard not to   grin.  > > Sometimes a boat just feels right and right now, this one does. > > > > We steer back to harbour as the sun sets over Vancouver Island   each  > > with a different take on the situation.  It does take commitment   to  > > build a boat of this size.  It takes patience and cash and lots   and  > > lots of time.  There are, as Kipling hinted, moments of "triumph   and  > > disaster" that make a man.  There are long faces and a good   measure  > > of laughter to punctuate the building process.  All this said:  at > > the end of the day, it still feels right.  rt > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:  > > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > |
9951|9946|2005-12-24 17:00:25|brentswain38|Re: Spars & Winches|Ther is a place in Clearwater Florida with acres of salvaged stuff  off hurricane damaged boats. You can sail a bit without winches   while waiting for a deal.  Brent   --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, SHANE ROTHWELL  <rockrothwell@y...> wrote:  > > Ben & Tom,  >  > One of my biggest cost concerns is cost of primary > winches. Big ones are big bucks. At the same time they > are pretty well indestructable. >  > After the 'foon (s) that hit the gulf coast there'd be > a lot of busted boat stuff on the market, but may be > that spars available may be rather munched being > comparatively exposed.....Just a thot. >  >  > Merry Ho Ho you guys! > Shane >  >  > 	 >  > 	 > 		 > __________________________________________________________  > Find your next car at http://autos.yahoo.ca > |
9952|9946|2005-12-24 19:31:51|a_admi|Re: Spars & Winches|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, SHANE ROTHWELL  <rockrothwell@y...> wrote:  > > Ben & Tom,  >  > One of my biggest cost concerns is cost of primary > winches. Big ones are big bucks. At the same time they > are pretty well indestructable. >  > After the 'foon (s) that hit the gulf coast there'd be > a lot of busted boat stuff on the market, but may be > that spars available may be rather munched being > comparatively exposed.....Just a thot. >  >  > Merry Ho Ho you guys! > Shane    __________________________________________________________   Thanks Shane , for the reminder , I may not forget to purchase those winches right away . Hoping to find those old tufnol ones , with the leveraction handle under the drum ; I could unleach the robe with a simple onehand swing from the opposite side in the wide cockpit of my previous boat. Brent Swain's confirmation mail came in before Christmas diner , the BS26'plans are in the mail :-) Yes you can do without winches , as Brent Swain  stated in the previous post , that reminded me of my dinghy sailing , point a bit higher , secure the robe and return to the course you wanted to steer in the first place . The 26' is not a dinghy and on the ocean I expect to tack a lot less than on some Dutch lakes and canals . Season's greetings to you all.  A.Admi|
9953|9946|2005-12-24 21:25:31|mickeyolaf|Re: Spars & Winches|The boaters swap meet in Seattle is every April and September. I've been going for years  and have scored some treaures there cheap. For the dates look at the web site for 48  North magazine. There are always winches there for sale. Most are non self tailing and are  for sale because they were replaced with self tailing. For my 36 I bought  two 46ST's and two 40ST's plus two 28 non ST's for the mast. These  were the recommended sizes from riggers I talked to. These will handle my cutter rig plus  spinnaker plus main sheet etc. Yes, the 46's and 40's were grossly expensive. I bought Andersen due to their being all 316 stainless. My last boat had chrome winches  and they pitted. The Andersens also have ribbs which grip better. I understand it is a good  idea to avoid black anodized winches as they get super hot in the sun. Brent is right, I'll bet there is a lot of hardware coming available from Florida damaged  boats. When it comes to marine gear "used" doesn't meaned it has actually been used.  Most boats are used two weeks a year or less.  Brent, is there a web site in Clearwater listing salvaged stuff?    --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "brentswain38" <brentswain38@h...> wrote: > > Ther is a place in Clearwater Florida with acres of salvaged stuff  > off hurricane damaged boats. You can sail a bit without winches   > while waiting for a deal.  > Brent >  >  > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, SHANE ROTHWELL  > <rockrothwell@y...> wrote: > > > > Ben & Tom,  > >  > > One of my biggest cost concerns is cost of primary > > winches. Big ones are big bucks. At the same time they > > are pretty well indestructable. > >  > > After the 'foon (s) that hit the gulf coast there'd be > > a lot of busted boat stuff on the market, but may be > > that spars available may be rather munched being > > comparatively exposed.....Just a thot. > >  > >  > > Merry Ho Ho you guys! > > Shane > >  > >  > > 	 > >  > > 	 > > 		 > > __________________________________________________________  > > Find your next car at http://autos.yahoo.ca > > > |
9954|9949|2005-12-25 01:41:34|Puck III|Re: special dinghy?|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "John Waalkes" <jhwaalkes@m...>  wrote:  > > Old Ben?  I must have missed that one,  I have looked at Brents   dinghy & thought of attempting something simular. Now recently I have  looked at suggestions of using fiberglass cloth encased foam sheets,   (1/2"-1") .  I think the flat sheets could be assembled using origami  darts than stitch & tape like a plywood hull?  Havent thought out all  details but if I had a formica or other smooth surface, wax & prep  with release agent.  Wet out the F/G cloth than lay down the foam  sheet with darts pre cut, wet down again covering with inside layer  of F/G cloth rolling out to remove air bubbles before covering again  with smooth surface sheets.  Let it harden, trim darts & edges, pull  it together using nylon zip ties.  Maybe using canned spray foam to  fill in chines ect before final taping.  Hmm something to think  about.   Any ideas??   John W. in Alaska  >  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >  Hi John , any ideas ?? you ask . More than money :-) First my best Season's Greetings to you and to all members . Your ideas are good , I will look up some info and links for you . I posted message 9903 with some suggestions and or questions , cause the low cost rotomoulds in the pics I posted in the Dinghy PhotoAlbum in Origamiboats2 , are simple steel welded.  I repost a message from the Proa_file Group where I also post, with some remarks and links . Enjoy the NewYears Resolution-Draft from the Proa_file . That Group has some in house wine-drinking experts :-)  Cheers to you to , have a great NewYear party :-)  Old Ben  From: "Puck III" <ben_azo@...>  Date: Sun Dec 25, 2005  7:01 am  Subject: Re: New Years Resolution - Draft       Hi Chris , my best Season's Greetings first . " Wine drinking Season " start on Januari First for me at 0.00h . Some practical training upfront sure helps for a good start :-)  John's fantastic NewYears Resolution-Draft sure brought a new peacefull atmosphere in here , sort as water over fire , sure not alcohol over fire :-) That alone has it merrits .  The NewYears Resolution-Draft also showed we have some Connaisseurs and real Experts about wine drinking in this Group .  Chris I gladly send a case of the finest for some of your expertise.  I like to post some pics , now and then , and I did it again :-)  About an active life-boat dinghy idea , that came on Topic in another Yahoo Group where I post , its a bit off Topic in here ( or isn't it ?? ), the idea to work on a double-hulled canoe dinghy might find some interested in here.  http://www.buildingyourboat.com/tiki-browse_gallery.php?galleryId=4  is where I posted some pics about the active rescue dinghy, for the mechanicaly thinking I posted also some pics about a cheap rotomould machine............cause I still believe designing for production is more interesting and rewarding than just designing a one-off.  Will there be an interest in this Group ?? Only time will tell......  Off to the kitchen to prepare breakfast , close the dammed laptop before the wife comes in , so I keep a peacefull happy atmosphere today :-)  Cheers Guys !!!!  Old Ben  -----------------------------------------------------------  --- In proa_file@yahoogroups.com, "Chris Ostlind" <Chris@W...> wrote: > > I'll be launching several boats this year, Ben. Could you please send along a case for the proper attitudes with each vessel? > > I truly hope for the finest of sharing moments with good friends and family, for all. > > Chris > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Puck III > > The finest resolution I saw for now . > My resolution in support of your fine resolution , > is to send you 3 bottles of a fine wine addapted to > trialday situations [ pour some wine first to handle > everything in the relaxed appropriate way ] and > pleeeeeeeeeeeeaase post us some pics from that event . > Best regards from over the ocean , > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
9955|9931|2005-12-25 02:26:24|ed_lithgow|Re: ---   New NW passage project   ---|Hi all. Re the Babouche (Wind-powered NW Passage attempt) design,  I'm tempted to use an ancient "Rowan and Martins Laugh-In" line,  (starts "fery interesting"...in a fake German accent) but few will  remember it, and it would overstate my confidence.  However, does anyone else think that this design looks downright  DANGEROUS? I'd speculate that the combination of low buoyancy semi- submersible bows, followed by the flat-fronted upside  down "secondary bows" of the "deckhouses", with a big flat transom  area right aft, is a nose-dive/dead-stop/broach just waiting for the  appropriate conditions in which to happen.   Of course I have little experience of extreme conditions, none with  this design, and certainly none (my preferred amount)with sea-ice,  but there's a picture of it elsewhere on the web "at speed" in  fairly small waves, with sheets of spray scooped up by  those "deckhouse bows" flying back over the area of the hatches. In  freezing conditions this doesn't bear thinking about.   Whatever design compromises have to be made for its proposed "ice- yacht" role, won't a Northwest Passage require this vessel to be  very seaworthy AS A BOAT in fairly extreme conditions?  Sorry if this is too far off-topic, but I'd be interested in the  views of experienced group members. Looks very dodgy to me.  Regards, Ed Lithgow  In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III" <ben_azo@h...> wrote:  > > Hi All , > some may be interested . Find Links , construction & sailingpics in >  > http://www.buildingyourboat.com/tiki-browse_gallery.php?galleryId=4 >  > no Wheels yet , do I see skis ??? >  > Old Ben > |
9956|9931|2005-12-25 03:50:25|Puck III|Re: ---   New NW passage project   ---|Hi Ed , thanks for giving your opinion , you sure are not alone with the concerns you express . Find here-under a repost from some people with similar concerns, and my respons to them . Dont shoot the messenger , I only post some pics some may like to see , and I sure will follow that NW passage attempt with real attention . All I know more about this project is that the skipper has some racing and transatlantic experience , well known to overtake ,  [yes sail faster under juryrig , when he repaired a colapsed mast] many classic minitransat racers.  Personaly I favor more tropical adventures , like you  my personal ice-sailing experience is zero = 0 :-)  Regards Old Ben  ----------------------------------------------------------------- --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "ed_lithgow" <ed_lithgow@h...>  wrote:  > > Hi all. Re the Babouche (Wind-powered NW Passage attempt) design,  > I'm tempted to use an ancient "Rowan and Martins Laugh-In" line,  > (starts "fery interesting"...in a fake German accent) but few will  > remember it, and it would overstate my confidence. >  > However, does anyone else think that this design looks downright  > DANGEROUS? I'd speculate that the combination of low buoyancy semi- > submersible bows, followed by the flat-fronted upside  > down "secondary bows" of the "deckhouses", with a big flat transom  > area right aft, is a nose-dive/dead-stop/broach just waiting for   the   > appropriate conditions in which to happen.  >  > Of course I have little experience of extreme conditions, none with  > this design, and certainly none (my preferred amount)with sea-ice,  > but there's a picture of it elsewhere on the web "at speed" in  > fairly small waves, with sheets of spray scooped up by  > those "deckhouse bows" flying back over the area of the hatches. In  > freezing conditions this doesn't bear thinking about.  >  > Whatever design compromises have to be made for its proposed "ice- > yacht" role, won't a Northwest Passage require this vessel to be  > very seaworthy AS A BOAT in fairly extreme conditions? >  > Sorry if this is too far off-topic, but I'd be interested in the  > views of experienced group members. Looks very dodgy to me. >  > Regards, Ed Lithgow >  > In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III" <ben_azo@h...> wrote: > > > > Hi All , > > some may be interested . Find Links , construction & sailingpics   in  > >  > > http://www.buildingyourboat.com/tiki-browse_gallery.php?  galleryId=4  > >  > > no Wheels yet , do I see skis ??? > >  > > Old Ben > >  --------------------------------------------------------------        From: "Puck III" <ben_azo@...> in Proa_file . Date: Thu Dec 22, 2005  5:45 am  Subject: Re: --- Expedition Double Hulled Canoe --- NW passage     Hi Wade , hi Robert , thanks for the respons and your opinion .  You both may have some points .  Babouche is a cross between an IceBoat and a double hulled canoe for the NW passage and so will ride the ice as an iceboat on skis .  At first I was unsure about your comments , so I did some research and thought a bit before answering. I found the LandProa pic so I knew that what you have in mind have been tested , just go to the usual album for the selfexplaining pics :-) http://www.buildingyourboat.com/tiki-browse_gallery.php?galleryId=4 posted their for your attention .  IceBoats are ofthen Landyachts where skis are replaced by Wheels , for wheels you all must know by now more info at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/boatwheels/  Personaly I still think , the work , efforts from the Babouche people deserve some respect and I realy hope they succeed in their endeavour with that 7,5 small boat.  I am only the messenger that post a link to some pics, some may like to see . Would some Wheels with some Foils be usefull for them ??? Could be and could be not . Anyway , I will let those brave guys know I am at their disposal if they would need anything .  Just always trying to keep a positive attitude :-)  Old Ben    --- In proa_file@yahoogroups.com, "wtarzia" <wtarzia@n...> wrote: > > --- In proa_file@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III" <ben_azo@h...> wrote: > > > > Hi All, > > Links , construction & sailing pics for a > > double-hulled " expedition canoe " for those interested in : http://www.buildingyourboat.com/tiki-browse_gallery.php?galleryId=4 An interesting project to follow for the interested.  > --- Another interesting cruising concept. With those low volume front > ends and a kindly glance from a sea-god, it might even float high > enough inverted to right stern-over-bows....? > > I don't know why, because there is no real connection, but viewing > that cat instilled a sudden vision of a proa with low volume/windage > ends (both ends) and a raised cabin in the middle third, having a > *central* sliding hatch similar to a World War II era training > aircraft (a hatch in the form of an inverted U). The open hatch gives > you access to the other (leeward) side of the proa in case you need to > fling your weight there during abackness or move over to access lines > or paddle, etc. The cabin structure has two permanent ends, rounded > off to shed waves, say 2.5 feet deep each, useable as a wind/spray > screen during the day. With an 8 foot long cockpit you can manage a 3 > foot long open area in the middle of the cockpit, perhaps enough for > solo sailing. At night you have a cozy cabin albeit withonly leaning > headroom. --W > ---------------------------------------------------------------- --- In proa_file@yahoogroups.com, "robertbiegler" <Robert.Biegler@s...> wrote: > > --- In proa_file@yahoogroups.com, "wtarzia" <wtarzia@n...> wrote: > > a sudden vision of a proa with low volume/windage > > ends (both ends) and a raised cabin in the middle third, > > Like this? > http://www.wingo.com/proa/davidcoy/ > > Regards > > Robert Biegler > ---------------------------------------------------------------- --- In proa_file@yahoogroups.com, "wtarzia" <wtarzia@n...> wrote:   > --- Yes, similar in species though scaled for solo sailing. I would > also fair the raised cockpit to cut through the occasional sweeping > wave. --Wade |
9957|9948|2005-12-25 07:17:08|Sugar|Re: it's time to switch off your computers|Merry Christmas everyone!  Darn you Gerd...not only did you beat me to this message but...you took my words right out of my mouth.  LOL So....DITTO everyone! I don't talk very often but I really enjoy reading what all of you have to say. Sugar    --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Gerd" <yago@j...> wrote: > > .. and merry chrismas everybody ;-) >  > All the best, and may all your wildest dreams and plans for next year  > come true. Thanks to you all for being such a great bunch of  > people!! ;-) >  >  > Gerd > The Yago proiject at http://www.justmueller.com/boats > |
9958|9958|2005-12-25 07:34:18|Puck III|---   Season's  Greetings to you all   :-)   ---|From: origamiboats2@yahoogroups.com  Date: Sun Dec 25, 2005  1:29 pm  Subject: New file uploaded to origamiboats2   origamiboats2@yahoogroups.com   Send Email     Hello,  This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the origamiboats2 group.  File : /kersthonden.jpg Uploaded by : ben_azo <ben_azo@...> Description : Season's Greetings to you all :-)  You can access this file at the URL: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats2/files/kersthonden.jpg  To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit: http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files  Regards,  ben_azo <ben_azo@...>|
9959|9959|2005-12-25 08:14:45|Puck III|" My  Baby  and  me "  and  more ............|From: "Puck III" <ben_azo@...>  Date: Sun Dec 25, 2005  2:00 pm  Subject: Re: New file uploaded to origamiboats3  ben_azo     --- In origamiboats3@yahoogroups.com, origamiboats3@yahoogroups.com wrote:  > > > Hello, > > This email message is a notification to let you know that > a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the origamiboats3 > group. > > File : /Jokes/milion_rioi-29kb.jpg > Uploaded by : ben_azo <ben_azo@h...> > Description : > > You can access this file at the URL:  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats3/files/Jokes/milion_rioi- 29kb.jpg  > > To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit: > http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files   " My Baby and me " What a romantic pic :-) The Link to the Dutch Radio Veronica Season's Greetings Jokes , NOT for the weak harted or easely shocked !!!! is : http://www.vero........ ( just for the previledged members in Origamiboats3 :-)  Enjoy the Dutch liberalism and freedom of expression :-)  Old Ben  > |
9960|9960|2005-12-25 15:14:46|robert44654|alternate energy storage|It has occured to me that perhaps a method of energy storage on a metal boat especially could be in the form of compressed air.  Now hear me out.  I have a sailboat with 4 batteries for energy storage.  I have to replace the batteries every 3 to 5 years and after the first 2 years the energy storage capability of the batteries is a fraction of the abilities of the new battery.  Now I am not always good about recharging the battery as it gets low, but I bet most of you are like me.  Its 9 PM  and I am using the lights or watching TV, etc. compay is over and the last thing in the world I want to do is run the diesel engine for an hour so the battery doesn't drain down below 50%.  France has put out a car that runs on compressed air.  Now the air is compressed almost to the point that it is a liquid, but what if you compressed the air to 150 to 500 PSI.   You could have a air powered engine (well insulated for sound ) run a small generator.  Probablely as small as 100 watt generator could work.  It could charge a battery if you needed 110 volts for a microwave , etc. via an invertor.  The light system could run off 12v.    Now where could you put air tanks?  duh, its a sailboat,  by incorperating it into the hull you could have multiple tanks with several hundred cubic feet of tankage.  Each tank could have seperate hoses to the air engine.  Of course all those tanks would have a downside.  It may take the royal navy all day of target practice to sink the darn thing!  All you engineers out there any calculations on the amount of energy that could be stored in say 200 cubic feet at 200 PSI?  robert|
9961|9960|2005-12-25 19:11:24|kendall|Re: alternate energy storage|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "robert44654" <robert44654@y...> wrote:  > >      It has occured to me that perhaps a method of energy storage on a > metal boat especially could be in the form of compressed air.  Now > hear me out.  I have a sailboat with 4 batteries for energy storage.  > I have to replace the batteries every 3 to 5 years and after the first > 2 years the energy storage capability of the batteries is a fraction > of the abilities of the new battery.  Now I am not always good about > recharging the battery as it gets low, but I bet most of you are like > me.  Its 9 PM  and I am using the lights or watching TV, etc. compay > is over and the last thing in the world I want to do is run the diesel > engine for an hour so the battery doesn't drain down below 50%. >  > France has put out a car that runs on compressed air.  Now the air is > compressed almost to the point that it is a liquid, but what if you > compressed the air to 150 to 500 PSI.   You could have a air powered > engine (well insulated for sound ) run a small generator.  Probablely > as small as 100 watt generator could work.  It could charge a battery > if you needed 110 volts for a microwave , etc. via an invertor.  The > light system could run off 12v.   >  > Now where could you put air tanks?  duh, its a sailboat,  by > incorperating it into the hull you could have multiple tanks with > several hundred cubic feet of tankage.  Each tank could have seperate > hoses to the air engine. >  > Of course all those tanks would have a downside.  It may take the > royal navy all day of target practice to sink the darn thing! >  > All you engineers out there any calculations on the amount of energy > that could be stored in say 200 cubic feet at 200 PSI? >  > robert >      Sounds like it would work, but it seems that you'd still run into the issue of not wanting to charge the tanks.    What would you use as an engine? a turbine type could likely produce more power, but use more air per unit, a positive displacement type could be fabbed up from a regular internal cumbustion engine, but would likely require homebrewing a cam shaft, or merely removing push rods and using an external air valve connected through the spark plug hole, turning the engine into a real two stroke, (power stroke/return stroke only) essentialy turning the engine into a steam engine, incorporating a reversing feature for the valves would anable it to operate as a compressor also  likely the most effective way would be a pair of small IC engines connected through a clutch assembly, with one as a compressor/air engine, disengage the clutch to just run the air engine/compressor to generate power, likelyhood of it producing power long enough to be the main drive engine is unknown, so maybe placing it in front of the IC that drives the prop would work out better.   Just thinking aloud  Ken.|
9962|9960|2005-12-26 00:03:01|robert44654|Re: alternate energy storage|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "kendall" <merc2dogs@h...> wrote:  > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "robert44654" <robert44654@y...> > wrote: > > > >      It has occured to me that perhaps a method of energy storage on a > > metal boat especially could be in the form of compressed air.  Now > > hear me out.  I have a sailboat with 4 batteries for energy storage.  > > I have to replace the batteries every 3 to 5 years and after the first > > 2 years the energy storage capability of the batteries is a fraction > > of the abilities of the new battery.  Now I am not always good about > > recharging the battery as it gets low, but I bet most of you are like > > me.  Its 9 PM  and I am using the lights or watching TV, etc. compay > > is over and the last thing in the world I want to do is run the diesel > > engine for an hour so the battery doesn't drain down below 50%. > >  > > France has put out a car that runs on compressed air.  Now the air is > > compressed almost to the point that it is a liquid, but what if you > > compressed the air to 150 to 500 PSI.   You could have a air powered > > engine (well insulated for sound ) run a small generator.  Probablely > > as small as 100 watt generator could work.  It could charge a battery > > if you needed 110 volts for a microwave , etc. via an invertor.  The > > light system could run off 12v.   > >  > > Now where could you put air tanks?  duh, its a sailboat,  by > > incorperating it into the hull you could have multiple tanks with > > several hundred cubic feet of tankage.  Each tank could have seperate > > hoses to the air engine. > >  > > Of course all those tanks would have a downside.  It may take the > > royal navy all day of target practice to sink the darn thing! > >  > > All you engineers out there any calculations on the amount of energy > > that could be stored in say 200 cubic feet at 200 PSI? > >  > > robert > > >  >  >   Sounds like it would work, but it seems that you'd still run into > the issue of not wanting to charge the tanks. >  >   What would you use as an engine? a turbine type could likely produce > more power, but use more air per unit, a positive displacement type > could be fabbed up from a regular internal cumbustion engine, but > would likely require homebrewing a cam shaft, or merely removing push > rods and using an external air valve connected through the spark plug > hole, turning the engine into a real two stroke, (power stroke/return > stroke only) essentialy turning the engine into a steam engine, > incorporating a reversing feature for the valves would anable it to > operate as a compressor also  likely the most effective way would be a > pair of small IC engines connected through a clutch assembly, with one > as a compressor/air engine, disengage the clutch to just run the air > engine/compressor to generate power, likelyhood of it producing power > long enough to be the main drive engine is unknown, so maybe placing > it in front of the IC that drives the prop would work out better. >  >  Just thinking aloud >  > Ken. >        YOu could possiblely have a "boiler" with the pressure saved in the tanks.  However you would have to have some system that the hot steam would push ambient temperature air into tanks to be released at a later time.  Before someone tries this consultation with someone experienced in boilers would be essential.  They can explode with deadly consequences!  One of the nice things about air storage is that as long as the tanks didn't leak they could be reused over and over.  Robert|
9963|9960|2005-12-26 00:29:31|Jerry walker|Re: alternate energy storage|If you look around, you will notice that all containers for pressurized  gases are either round or cylindrical.  Conpressed gases can be very  dangerous.  The first passenger jet aircraft was built by the Brits and I  had a bad habit of disappearing from the skies.  The problem was that it was  not engineered for the repeated stresses of cycling the pressure vessel  (hull).  This is one reason that propane is so dangerous as a fuel.  The  hull of most sailing vessels are not designed to be pressurized.  The storage battery for all it's shortcomings are still very efficient,  relatively safe and SMALL considering alternatives.  Perhaps your suggestion  should be compared to 200 cubic feet of batteries.    >From: "kendall" <merc2dogs@...> >Reply-To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com >To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com >Subject: [origamiboats] Re: alternate energy storage >Date: Mon, 26 Dec 2005 00:11:22 -0000 > >--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "robert44654" <robert44654@y...> >wrote: > > > >      It has occured to me that perhaps a method of energy storage on a > > metal boat especially could be in the form of compressed air.  Now > > hear me out.  I have a sailboat with 4 batteries for energy storage. > > I have to replace the batteries every 3 to 5 years and after the first > > 2 years the energy storage capability of the batteries is a fraction > > of the abilities of the new battery.  Now I am not always good about > > recharging the battery as it gets low, but I bet most of you are like > > me.  Its 9 PM  and I am using the lights or watching TV, etc. compay > > is over and the last thing in the world I want to do is run the diesel > > engine for an hour so the battery doesn't drain down below 50%. > > > > France has put out a car that runs on compressed air.  Now the air is > > compressed almost to the point that it is a liquid, but what if you > > compressed the air to 150 to 500 PSI.   You could have a air powered > > engine (well insulated for sound ) run a small generator.  Probablely > > as small as 100 watt generator could work.  It could charge a battery > > if you needed 110 volts for a microwave , etc. via an invertor.  The > > light system could run off 12v. > > > > Now where could you put air tanks?  duh, its a sailboat,  by > > incorperating it into the hull you could have multiple tanks with > > several hundred cubic feet of tankage.  Each tank could have seperate > > hoses to the air engine. > > > > Of course all those tanks would have a downside.  It may take the > > royal navy all day of target practice to sink the darn thing! > > > > All you engineers out there any calculations on the amount of energy > > that could be stored in say 200 cubic feet at 200 PSI? > > > > robert > > > > >   Sounds like it would work, but it seems that you'd still run into >the issue of not wanting to charge the tanks. > >   What would you use as an engine? a turbine type could likely produce >more power, but use more air per unit, a positive displacement type >could be fabbed up from a regular internal cumbustion engine, but >would likely require homebrewing a cam shaft, or merely removing push >rods and using an external air valve connected through the spark plug >hole, turning the engine into a real two stroke, (power stroke/return >stroke only) essentialy turning the engine into a steam engine, >incorporating a reversing feature for the valves would anable it to >operate as a compressor also  likely the most effective way would be a >pair of small IC engines connected through a clutch assembly, with one >as a compressor/air engine, disengage the clutch to just run the air >engine/compressor to generate power, likelyhood of it producing power >long enough to be the main drive engine is unknown, so maybe placing >it in front of the IC that drives the prop would work out better. > >  Just thinking aloud > >Ken. > > > |
9964|9960|2005-12-26 00:42:29|Jon & Wanda(Tink)|Re: alternate energy storage|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Jerry walker"  <carrabellefl@h...> wrote:  > > If you look around, you will notice that all containers for   pressurized   > gases are either round or cylindrical.  Conpressed gases can be   very   > dangerous.  The first passenger jet aircraft was built by the Brits   and I   > had a bad habit of disappearing from the skies.  The problem was   that it was   > not engineered for the repeated stresses of cycling the pressure   vessel   > (hull).  This is one reason that propane is so dangerous as a   fuel.  The   > hull of most sailing vessels are not designed to be pressurized. >  > The storage battery for all it's shortcomings are still very   efficient,   > relatively safe and SMALL considering alternatives.  Perhaps your   suggestion   > should be compared to 200 cubic feet of batteries.   Diving tanks would do the trick as far as a presure vesal but they  are typicaly cooled as they are filled.  Jon|
9965|9960|2005-12-26 00:55:32|Wesley Cox|Origami video|Alex and Brent,  My wife, Kelly, is a Christmas fanatic so I felt compelled to wait to  buy the video in order to let it be a Christmas gift from her (as much  as I wanted to get it right away).  I just finished watching it.   Outstanding!!!  Definitely count me in for the 2nd one.  Also, I very  much like the limited editing long format; the more, the better.  I feel  inspired to go outside and build a boat.  Of course, I'm only 3 months  into a new house, new town, new state, new culture -- new world really  -- and the 3 car garage I'm converting into my next welding shop needs  serious re-construction which will have to wait until spring to finish  here on the frozen tundra.  I'll have to watch the video 10 more times  and feel 10 times as inspired by spring.  Thanks very much for the  excellent video.|
9966|9960|2005-12-26 10:14:57|Dennis McNeely|Re: alternate energy storage|. . . Not nearly enough storage in 200 cu ft at 200 psi to provide a significant amount of power, and the 'air motor' can be a noisy beast.  If you're open to hydraulics, though - much higher power density is possible, allowing more power to be stored in a small volume. The motor / pump is much smaller that the air motor, and while it isn't silent, it would be quieter than an air motor.  Dennis  -----Original Message----- From: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com [mailto:origamiboats@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of robert44654 Sent: Sunday, December 25, 2005 3:14 PM To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Subject: [origamiboats] alternate energy storage        It has occured to me that perhaps a method of energy storage on a metal boat especially could be in the form of compressed air.  Now hear me out.  I have a sailboat with 4 batteries for energy storage.   - snip -  All you engineers out there any calculations on the amount of energy that could be stored in say 200 cubic feet at 200 PSI?|
9967|9960|2005-12-26 12:29:38|Henri Naths|Re: alternate energy storage|Hi Robert,  Your question of alternate energy storage is always an intriguing  quest to say the least. The way I see it is simple.   My shop air compressors of one horse power puts out eight cfm .The air tools that uses this volume of air eg. die grinder, drill etc uses the entire volume of air. In other words it takes one horse power to drill a hole where a Makita electric drill doing the same job uses one tenth the power. So air power is only 10 % efficient. Less in some cases: eg..air paint gun, 3hp or 18cfm vs an electric paint gun one tenth of a horse power These are just rough calculations to illustrate my point. A simple way of guestinating an efficiency ratio is evaluate the waste heat given off of a system. Waste heat is energy.There is alot of waste heat given off an air compressor and a hydraulic system as per recoverable energy.Now compare that with the waste heat given off a electric drill. Doesn't even come close. A diesel engine is 45% efficient that is to say 45% is mechanical energy and 55% is waste heat of which 30% goes out the exhaust tube as a compressed energy source.  BMW recently came out with an invention to capture this *free* energy. Henri    ----- Original Message -----    From: robert44654    To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com    Sent: Sunday, December 25, 2005 1:13 PM   Subject: [origamiboats] alternate energy storage          It has occured to me that perhaps a method of energy storage on a   metal boat especially could be in the form of compressed air.  Now   hear me out.  I have a sailboat with 4 batteries for energy storage.    I have to replace the batteries every 3 to 5 years and after the first   2 years the energy storage capability of the batteries is a fraction   of the abilities of the new battery.  Now I am not always good about   recharging the battery as it gets low, but I bet most of you are like   me.  Its 9 PM  and I am using the lights or watching TV, etc. compay   is over and the last thing in the world I want to do is run the diesel   engine for an hour so the battery doesn't drain down below 50%.    France has put out a car that runs on compressed air.  Now the air is   compressed almost to the point that it is a liquid, but what if you   compressed the air to 150 to 500 PSI.   You could have a air powered   engine (well insulated for sound ) run a small generator.  Probablely   as small as 100 watt generator could work.  It could charge a battery   if you needed 110 volts for a microwave , etc. via an invertor.  The   light system could run off 12v.      Now where could you put air tanks?  duh, its a sailboat,  by   incorperating it into the hull you could have multiple tanks with   several hundred cubic feet of tankage.  Each tank could have seperate   hoses to the air engine.    Of course all those tanks would have a downside.  It may take the   royal navy all day of target practice to sink the darn thing!    All you engineers out there any calculations on the amount of energy   that could be stored in say 200 cubic feet at 200 PSI?    robert         To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com   To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com    Yahoo! Groups Links           [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
9968|9968|2005-12-27 14:42:16|a_admi|Metric Material List for the  26' BS|From: origamiboats2@yahoogroups.com  Date: Tue Dec 27, 2005  8:37 pm  Subject: New file uploaded to origamiboats2   origamiboats2@yahoogroups.com   Send Email     Hello,  This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the origamiboats2 group.  File : / 26' BS/Materiaallijst BS 26'.doc Uploaded by : a_admi <a_admi@...> Description : Metric material list  You can access this file at the URL: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats2/files/%20%2026%27%20% 20BS/Materiaall\ ijst%20BS%2026%27.doc  To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit: http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files  Regards,  a_admi <a_admi@...>|
9969|9968|2005-12-27 15:04:10|a_admi|Re: Metric Material List for the  26' BS|Sorry All , the direct Link I posted is not working , it is working in origamiboats2 . The file is there . I have a technical question for the Canadians .  Converting the non metric to metric brought some questions:  How thick is a 1/8th plate in mm ?  o,3175 cm on my calculator .  I received Brent Swain's confirmation by email faster than the Canada Post / Postes Canada from Royston where I find a the post stamp in Eglish and French :-)  3mm is a standard EU measurement . I realy wonder how many millimeters the 1/8th plate is .  anybody with a metric ruller to read it out ??  Thanks in advance for any advise or directions .  The same question comes for the 3/16th where I have 0,47625cm wich I turned into 0,5cm or 5mm a standard measurement over here.  Thanks in advance .  Best Season's Greetings for All.  Admi   --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "a_admi" <a_admi@y...> wrote: > > From: origamiboats2@yahoogroups.com  > Date: Tue Dec 27, 2005  8:37 pm  > Subject: New file uploaded to origamiboats2   > origamiboats2@yahoogroups.com  >  Send Email   >  >  > Hello, >  > This email message is a notification to let you know that > a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the origamiboats2 > group. >  > File : / 26' BS/Materiaallijst BS 26'.doc > Uploaded by : a_admi <a_admi@> > Description : Metric material list >  > You can access this file at the URL: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats2/files/%20%2026%27%20% > 20BS/Materiaall\ > ijst%20BS%2026%27.doc >  > To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit: > http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files >  > Regards, >  > a_admi <a_admi@> > |
9970|9968|2005-12-27 16:35:39|tom|Re: Metric Material List for the  26' BS|Hello  I just miked the 12 gage Im useing for the decking and its 2.5 mm, its a  little under 1/8". 1/8" is 3.19 mm and the 3/16" is 4.8 mm, probably  considerd 5 mm Tom  ----- Original Message -----  From: "a_admi" <a_admi@...> To: <origamiboats@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2005 12:01 PM Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Metric Material List for the 26' BS   > Sorry All , the direct Link I posted is not working , > it is working in origamiboats2 . > The file is there . > I have a technical question for the Canadians . > > Converting the non metric to metric brought some questions: > > How thick is a 1/8th plate in mm ?  o,3175 cm on my calculator . > > I received Brent Swain's confirmation by email faster > than the Canada Post / Postes Canada from Royston > where I find a the post stamp in Eglish and French :-) > > 3mm is a standard EU measurement . > I realy wonder how many millimeters the 1/8th plate is . > > anybody with a metric ruller to read it out ?? > > Thanks in advance for any advise or directions . > > The same question comes for the 3/16th where I have 0,47625cm > wich I turned into 0,5cm or 5mm a standard measurement over here. > > Thanks in advance . > > Best Season's Greetings for All. > > Admi > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "a_admi" <a_admi@y...> wrote: >> >> From: origamiboats2@yahoogroups.com >> Date: Tue Dec 27, 2005  8:37 pm >> Subject: New file uploaded to origamiboats2 >> origamiboats2@yahoogroups.com >>  Send Email >> >> >> Hello, >> >> This email message is a notification to let you know that >> a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the origamiboats2 >> group. >> >> File : / 26' BS/Materiaallijst BS 26'.doc >> Uploaded by : a_admi <a_admi@> >> Description : Metric material list >> >> You can access this file at the URL: >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats2/files/%20%2026%27%20% >> 20BS/Materiaall\ >> ijst%20BS%2026%27.doc >> >> To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit: >> http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files >> >> Regards, >> >> a_admi <a_admi@> >> > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:  > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > |
9971|9949|2005-12-27 18:22:09|Puck III|Re: special dinghy?|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III" <ben_azo@h...> wrote:  > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "John Waalkes"   <jhwaalkes@m...>   > wrote: > > > > Old Ben?  I must have missed that one,  I have looked at Brents  > dinghy & thought of attempting something simular. Now recently I   have   > looked at suggestions of using fiberglass cloth encased foam   sheets,    > (1/2"-1") .  I think the flat sheets could be assembled using   origami   > darts than stitch & tape like a plywood hull?  Havent thought out   all   > details but if I had a formica or other smooth surface, wax & prep  > with release agent.  Wet out the F/G cloth than lay down the foam  > sheet with darts pre cut, wet down again covering with inside layer  > of F/G cloth rolling out to remove air bubbles before covering   again   > with smooth surface sheets.  Let it harden, trim darts & edges,   pull   > it together using nylon zip ties.  Maybe using canned spray foam to  > fill in chines ect before final taping.  Hmm something to think  > about.   Any ideas??   John W. in Alaska > >  > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > Hi John , any ideas ?? you ask . More than money :-)  > Your ideas are good , I will look up some info and links > for you .   A ping-pong table with a plastic sheet over it would make a good working table . You can cutt the darts in any PVC-foam , even square out the difficult to turn surfaces with a router ' using a small grinder so that the radius is more easely obtained a Yahoo Group much into the PVC foam and origamitechniques is : http://groups.yahoo.com/group/KSSBoat/ you can find much info over there .  You could even have a look at a simpeler and cheaper technique worked out by a " Mouseketeer " from the http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mouseboats/  I posted a pic and a link for you to see : Image Name: StyroMouse :-)  Created: Tuesday 27 of December, 2005 [21:18:46 UTC]  Hits: 6  Description: Find the complete building story and much more pics in  the builders website: http://bluesman9.homeftp.net/index.html  Author: ben_azo   You can view this image in your browser using:  http://www.buildingyourboat.com/tiki-browse_image.php?imageId=52   If you can spare the time and have an interest you could also have a look at some other pics in the same album , http://www.buildingyourboat.com/tiki-browse_gallery.php?galleryId=4 cause Dinghies come in all sorts and forms , you could make a wishlist or designgoal. Some people may have a similar interest.  Have a good look at all the pics , and tell us what you think.  Old Ben|
9972|9931|2005-12-27 19:17:21|Puck III|Re: ---   New NW passage project   ---|Hi Ed , me again , I did some serious research about Babouche http://www.babouche.20mn.com/     cause I wont post just anything , Sebastien Roubinet is gone attempt the NW passage under sail alone :-)   According to some well informed people he makes a rather good chance depending of the wind , so we will have to wait and see really .  Racing is his business ,http://www.xs4all.nl/~blvrd/  is a good Link for those interested in MiniTransat boats .  I posted a real pretty pic : Image Name: Mini Surfing  Created: Tuesday 27 of December, 2005 [21:28:02 UTC]  Hits: 13  Description: http://www.xs4all.nl/~blvrd/ 6,5 Mini Transat Boats  encounter ofthen some nice waves :-) Speed in the Spray !!! Fantastic  Pic Photographer's Name on Pic !!!  Author: ben_azo   You can view this image in your browser using:  http://www.buildingyourboat.com/tiki-browse_image.php?imageId=53  Waves are waves , same waves on a racer as on a cruiser :-) Facing the cold and artic conditions , fog and cold seems the hardest part , probably not the waves cause the boat seems to behave extreemly well.  Babouche had to be accepted by the French Commission Maritime , they have the responsability for delivering  the Livret de navigation , an official document from a EU Government............  Hoping you like the wave pics I posted , a reminder the sea aint always flat .  Old Ben     --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III" <ben_azo@h...> wrote: > > Hi Ed , thanks for giving your opinion , you sure are not alone > with the concerns you express . > Find here-under a repost from some people with similar concerns, > and my respons to them . > Dont shoot the messenger , I only post some pics some may like > to see , and I sure will follow that NW passage attempt with > real attention . > All I know more about this project is that the skipper has > some racing and transatlantic experience , well known to overtake ,  > [yes sail faster under juryrig , when he repaired a colapsed mast] > many classic minitransat racers. >  > Personaly I favor more tropical adventures , like you  > my personal ice-sailing experience is zero = 0 :-) >  > Regards > Old Ben >  > ----------------------------------------------------------------- > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "ed_lithgow" <ed_lithgow@h...>  > wrote: > > > > Hi all. Re the Babouche (Wind-powered NW Passage attempt) design,  > > I'm tempted to use an ancient "Rowan and Martins Laugh-In" line,  > > (starts "fery interesting"...in a fake German accent) but few  will  > > remember it, and it would overstate my confidence. > >  > > However, does anyone else think that this design looks downright  > > DANGEROUS? I'd speculate that the combination of low buoyancy  semi- > > submersible bows, followed by the flat-fronted upside  > > down "secondary bows" of the "deckhouses", with a big flat  transom  > > area right aft, is a nose-dive/dead-stop/broach just waiting for  > the  > > appropriate conditions in which to happen.  > >  > > Of course I have little experience of extreme conditions, none  with  > > this design, and certainly none (my preferred amount)with sea- ice,  > > but there's a picture of it elsewhere on the web "at speed" in  > > fairly small waves, with sheets of spray scooped up by  > > those "deckhouse bows" flying back over the area of the hatches.  In  > > freezing conditions this doesn't bear thinking about.  > >  > > Whatever design compromises have to be made for its proposed "ice- > > yacht" role, won't a Northwest Passage require this vessel to be  > > very seaworthy AS A BOAT in fairly extreme conditions? > >  > > Sorry if this is too far off-topic, but I'd be interested in the  > > views of experienced group members. Looks very dodgy to me. > >  > > Regards, Ed Lithgow > >  > > In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III" <ben_azo@h...> wrote: > > > > > > Hi All , > > > some may be interested . Find Links , construction &  sailingpics  > in > > >  > > > http://www.buildingyourboat.com/tiki-browse_gallery.php? > galleryId=4 > > >  > > > no Wheels yet , do I see skis ??? > > >  > > > Old Ben > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------- >        > From: "Puck III" <ben_azo@h...> in Proa_file . > Date: Thu Dec 22, 2005  5:45 am  > Subject: Re: --- Expedition Double Hulled Canoe --- NW passage    >  > Hi Wade , hi Robert , thanks for the respons and your opinion . >  > You both may have some points . >  > Babouche is a cross between an IceBoat and > a double hulled canoe for the NW passage and so will > ride the ice as an iceboat on skis . >  > At first I was unsure about your comments , so I did > some research and thought a bit before answering. > I found the LandProa pic so I knew that what you > have in mind have been tested , just go to the > usual album for the selfexplaining pics :-) > http://www.buildingyourboat.com/tiki-browse_gallery.php?galleryId=4 > posted their for your attention . >  > IceBoats are ofthen Landyachts where skis are replaced > by Wheels , for wheels you all must know by now more info at: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/boatwheels/ >  > Personaly I still think , the work , efforts from the > Babouche people deserve some respect and I realy hope > they succeed in their endeavour with that 7,5 small boat. >  > I am only the messenger that post a link to some pics, > some may like to see . > Would some Wheels with some Foils be usefull for them ??? > Could be and could be not . > Anyway , I will let those brave guys know I am at their > disposal if they would need anything . >  > Just always trying to keep a positive attitude :-) >  > Old Ben >  >  > --- In proa_file@yahoogroups.com, "wtarzia" <wtarzia@n...> wrote: > > > > --- In proa_file@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III" <ben_azo@h...> wrote: > > > > > > Hi All, > > > Links , construction & sailing pics for a > > > double-hulled " expedition canoe " for those interested in : > http://www.buildingyourboat.com/tiki-browse_gallery.php?galleryId=4 > An interesting project to follow for the interested. >  > > --- Another interesting cruising concept. With those low volume > front > > ends and a kindly glance from a sea-god, it might even float high > > enough inverted to right stern-over-bows....? > > > > I don't know why, because there is no real connection, but viewing > > that cat instilled a sudden vision of a proa with low > volume/windage > > ends (both ends) and a raised cabin in the middle third, having a > > *central* sliding hatch similar to a World War II era training > > aircraft (a hatch in the form of an inverted U). The open hatch > gives > > you access to the other (leeward) side of the proa in case you  need > to > > fling your weight there during abackness or move over to access > lines > > or paddle, etc. The cabin structure has two permanent ends, > rounded > > off to shed waves, say 2.5 feet deep each, useable as a wind/spray > > screen during the day. With an 8 foot long cockpit you can manage  a > 3 > > foot long open area in the middle of the cockpit, perhaps enough > for > > solo sailing. At night you have a cozy cabin albeit withonly > leaning > > headroom. --W > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > --- In proa_file@yahoogroups.com, "robertbiegler" > <Robert.Biegler@s...> wrote: > > > > --- In proa_file@yahoogroups.com, "wtarzia" <wtarzia@n...> wrote: > > > a sudden vision of a proa with low volume/windage > > > ends (both ends) and a raised cabin in the middle third, > > > > Like this? > > http://www.wingo.com/proa/davidcoy/ > > > > Regards > > > > Robert Biegler > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > --- In proa_file@yahoogroups.com, "wtarzia" <wtarzia@n...> wrote: >  >  > > --- Yes, similar in species though scaled for solo sailing. I > would > > also fair the raised cockpit to cut through the occasional  sweeping > > wave. --Wade > |
9973|9973|2005-12-28 02:56:49|Abraham George|how to get a copy of boat building book by Brent Swain|hi there,  I'd be grateful if someone tells me where can i obtain the book by Brent Swain on boat building or his contact address ??   regards   Abraham George   		 __________________________________________  Yahoo! DSL – Something to write home about.  Just $16.99/mo. or less.  dsl.yahoo.com|
9974|9973|2005-12-28 04:17:35|edward_stoneuk|Re: how to get a copy of boat building book by Brent Swain|Abraham George,  All the information is in the Files section of this site.  Regards,  Ted|
9975|9968|2005-12-28 05:22:51|edward_stoneuk|Re: Metric Material List for the  26' BS|Admi, I am building in Europe.  I used 3mm for 1/8" and 5mm for 3/16" on the  36' I am building.  I had thought about rounding down to 4mm plate,  in order to save weight for the 3/16" hull plate but Brent advised  rounding up to 5mm.  From memory, he said 4mm would be good for the  31' hull.  I see that you will be using 3/16" (5mm) for the keels.  I  shouldn't think that a litle bit of extra weight (1.86kg/m2) on your  keels will be a problem. Regards, Ted|
9976|9939|2005-12-28 09:43:29|Ray|Re: sailing it|<SNIP Nicely written float report> Congratulations, Sir - it is indeed a special thing to move one's self  about in a conveyance that is personally constructed.   Plywood canoes, little boats, big boats ( will find out someday), hot- rod cars, motorcycles, airplanes - it's always thrilling and worrisome  to venture out that first time.   May you have many happy years aboard your new vessel.   Ray Kimbro|
9977|9977|2005-12-28 18:39:17|brentswain38|Ass Wedge|I found a way to make the cockpit far more comfortable.  When you sit with your back against the back of the pilothouse , your  ass keeps sliding out from under you. I took a 16 inch by 14 inch piece  of half inch plywood and nailed a 2X4 along one 16 inch side , making a  wedge, with the 2X4 side out, plywood up. It makes the cockpit far more  comfortable for long term sitting and also works well below decks. Brent|
9978|9973|2005-12-28 18:41:05|brentswain38|Re: how to get a copy of boat building book by Brent Swain|For a copy of my book , please send $20 plus $5 for postage, $10 for  overseas airmail postage to 3798 Laurel Dr, Royston BC Canada V0R2V0 Brent   --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Abraham George <to_avaraan@y...>  wrote:  > > hi there, >  > I'd be grateful if someone tells me where can i obtain > the book by Brent Swain on boat building or his > contact address ?? >  >  > regards  >  > Abraham George >  >  > 		 > __________________________________________  > Yahoo! DSL – Something to write home about.  > Just $16.99/mo. or less.  > dsl.yahoo.com > |
9979|9979|2005-12-29 16:49:12|Puck III|NEW   TriKeeler   -   Triakel|http://www.triakel.nl  sorry Guys in Dutch only for now , but the designs , pics and diagrams are selfexplaining .  worth looking at ???  You tell me :-)  Old Ben|
9980|9979|2005-12-29 17:41:31|Wesley Cox|Re: NEW   TriKeeler   -   Triakel|The keels tilt in instead of out.  So that means the windward keel is  doing the work instead of the leeward keel?  It's more shallow than the  leeward keel and seems it wouldn't work as well.  Am I missing  something?  I don't know Dutch, so can't read the explanations, sorry.   Puck III wrote:   >http://www.triakel.nl > >sorry Guys in Dutch only for now , >but the designs , pics and diagrams are selfexplaining . > >worth looking at ??? > >You tell me :-) > >Old Ben > > > > > > >To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com >To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com  >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > >  > > > >   > |
9981|9979|2005-12-29 17:45:14|edward_stoneuk|Re: NEW   TriKeeler   -   Triakel|Hi Old Benzene, I cannot read much Dutch so how did it compare in tests with a more  conventional, if there is such a thing, hull?  I have seen pictures of  junks and sampans, similarly flat bottomed with a lifting dagger board  keel well forward, though not as much as that.  They had lifting  rudders as well.  I guess it could it be made origamistyle, maybe  without any darts? Regards, Ted|
9982|9979|2005-12-29 17:51:38|Gerd|Re: NEW   TriKeeler   -   Triakel|can't say I get it either...  most of the windward keel would lift out  when heeling and is anyway covered by the hull and in the water  already siturbed by the leeward keel... the leeweard keel maybe  supposed to provide lift / righting moment as well? I really can't see  the point.  What I would not want to go to sea with for sure is this deep 3rd keel  at the the forefoot, seems to me that that would give you a perfect  croche-pied to stumble or even summersault the boat over when going  down big seas in chaotic conditions  Gerd The Yago Project at http://www.justmueller.com/boats/|
9983|9979|2005-12-29 18:54:13|Puck III|Re: NEW   TriKeeler   -   Triakel|Hi Wesley , Ted and Gerd and all those lurking :-)  I think your sceptisism is even smaller than mine :-) Some old rules : to make a boat of a given length go faster , -you increase the waterline lenght [ just think of sailing healed downwind ]and  -you decrease the wetted surface [ by raising boards ] -build light -center the weights , keep the weight away from the bow ,  cause ritmic pitching reduces speed :-) some of the pro arguments ?? -easy for drying out :-) 1.2m draft...any centerborder or  sideborder can do better . -Gerd you'r correct with the croche pied argument ,  how does one say that in english ??? -and you...much much more.......  I will look up some old designs I have from front boards ( Gerd you will recognise them in seconds :-) and post them for you all . The frontboard works fine except when it comes out of the water cause it changes the hold-on to windward in a fraction of a second to a point....  Just wondering what kinda mail I will receive afther this post , cause it is years ago I had an argument with a famous TH Delft professor , but you know me a bit when I like something I will say so and if not...:-) The poor man must be retired now :-)  So my proposal is to give them the benefit of the dought, but I realy dought extreemly hard except for use on calm Dutch lakes . But as always I can be wrong :-)  By the way , did you all saw my Last 2005 pic in : http://www.buildingyourboat.com/tiki-browse_gallery.php?galleryId=4    HAPPY 2006  I sure would love to take them on board in any weather :-) I can confirm and you can check for yourself  what the old sailor want to see :-)  Enjoy and tell me how you feel :-) Cheers !! Old Ben    --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Gerd" <yago@j...> wrote: > > can't say I get it either...  most of the windward keel would lift  out  > when heeling and is anyway covered by the hull and in the water  > already siturbed by the leeward keel... the leeweard keel maybe  > supposed to provide lift / righting moment as well? I really can't  see  > the point. >  > What I would not want to go to sea with for sure is this deep 3rd  keel  > at the the forefoot, seems to me that that would give you a perfect  > croche-pied to stumble or even summersault the boat over when going  > down big seas in chaotic conditions >  > Gerd > The Yago Project at http://www.justmueller.com/boats/  --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "edward_stoneuk" <tedstone@g...>  wrote: > > Hi Old Benzene, > I cannot read much Dutch so how did it compare in tests with a more  > conventional, if there is such a thing, hull?  I have seen pictures  of  > junks and sampans, similarly flat bottomed with a lifting dagger  board  > keel well forward, though not as much as that.  They had lifting  > rudders as well.  I guess it could it be made origamistyle, maybe  > without any darts? > Regards, > Ted  --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Wesley Cox <inspirfe@d...> wrote: > > The keels tilt in instead of out.  So that means the windward keel  is  > doing the work instead of the leeward keel?  It's more shallow than  the  > leeward keel and seems it wouldn't work as well.  Am I missing  > something?  I don't know Dutch, so can't read the explanations,  sorry. >  >  > Puck III wrote: >  > >http://www.triakel.nl > > > >sorry Guys in Dutch only for now , > >but the designs , pics and diagrams are selfexplaining . > > > >worth looking at ??? > > > >You tell me :-) > > > >Old Ben > > > > > > > > > > > > > >To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > >To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats- unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com  > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > >  > > > > > > > >   > > > |
9984|9968|2005-12-30 05:10:30|a_admi|Re: Metric Material List for the  26' BS|Thanks Tom , much appreciated . Admi   --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "tom" <tazmann@i...> wrote: > > Hello >  I just miked the 12 gage Im useing for the decking and its 2.5 mm,  its a  > little under 1/8". 1/8" is 3.19 mm and the 3/16" is 4.8 mm,  probably  > considerd 5 mm > Tom > ----- Original Message -----  > From: "a_admi" <a_admi@y...> > To: <origamiboats@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2005 12:01 PM > Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Metric Material List for the 26' BS >  >  > > Sorry All , the direct Link I posted is not working , > > it is working in origamiboats2 . > > The file is there . > > I have a technical question for the Canadians . > > > > Converting the non metric to metric brought some questions: > > > > How thick is a 1/8th plate in mm ?  o,3175 cm on my calculator . > > > > I received Brent Swain's confirmation by email faster > > than the Canada Post / Postes Canada from Royston > > where I find a the post stamp in Eglish and French :-) > > > > 3mm is a standard EU measurement . > > I realy wonder how many millimeters the 1/8th plate is . > > > > anybody with a metric ruller to read it out ?? > > > > Thanks in advance for any advise or directions . > > > > The same question comes for the 3/16th where I have 0,47625cm > > wich I turned into 0,5cm or 5mm a standard measurement over here. > > > > Thanks in advance . > > > > Best Season's Greetings for All. > > > > Admi > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "a_admi" <a_admi@y...> wrote: > >> > >> From: origamiboats2@yahoogroups.com > >> Date: Tue Dec 27, 2005  8:37 pm > >> Subject: New file uploaded to origamiboats2 > >> origamiboats2@yahoogroups.com > >>  Send Email > >> > >> > >> Hello, > >> > >> This email message is a notification to let you know that > >> a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the origamiboats2 > >> group. > >> > >> File : / 26' BS/Materiaallijst BS 26'.doc > >> Uploaded by : a_admi <a_admi@> > >> Description : Metric material list > >> > >> You can access this file at the URL: > >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats2/files/%20%2026%27%20% > >> 20BS/Materiaall\ > >> ijst%20BS%2026%27.doc > >> > >> To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit: > >> http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files > >> > >> Regards, > >> > >> a_admi <a_admi@> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:  > > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > |
9985|9968|2005-12-30 05:16:20|a_admi|Re: Metric Material List for the  26' BS|Thanks to you too Ted , the double confirmation make me feel good  about the conversion to metric . Just trying to stay on the right track. Regards  Admi   --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "edward_stoneuk" <tedstone@g...>  wrote:  > > Admi, > I am building in Europe.  I used 3mm for 1/8" and 5mm for 3/16" on   the   > 36' I am building.  I had thought about rounding down to 4mm plate,  > in order to save weight for the 3/16" hull plate but Brent advised  > rounding up to 5mm.  From memory, he said 4mm would be good for the  > 31' hull.  I see that you will be using 3/16" (5mm) for the keels.  I  > shouldn't think that a litle bit of extra weight (1.86kg/m2) on your  > keels will be a problem. > Regards, > Ted > |
9986|9986|2005-12-30 17:11:53|yahn101a|Plywood|I'm new to this group. I could never afford a big steel boat. But  making a 16 footer from plywood is what I would try to do. Has this  been tried with success? I thinking of a sweet 19th century style  rowing boat. Whitehall like. Steve Yahn, near Seattle|
9987|9960|2005-12-30 17:39:07|brentswain38|Re: alternate energy storage|I recently saw an article in  british magazine about a couple who  chose a small fuel cell in place of a battery. Does anyone know more  about these and their price and availability? Brent  --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Henri Naths" <c_hnaths@t...>  wrote:  > > Hi Robert,  > Your question of alternate energy storage is always an intriguing    quest to say the least.  > The way I see it is simple.   My shop air compressors of one horse   power puts out eight cfm .The air tools that uses this volume of air  eg. die grinder, drill etc uses the entire volume of air. In other  words it takes one horse power to drill a hole where a Makita  electric drill doing the same job uses one tenth the power. So air  power is only 10 % efficient.  > Less in some cases: eg..air paint gun, 3hp or 18cfm vs an electric   paint gun one tenth of a horse power  > These are just rough calculations to illustrate my point. > A simple way of guestinating an efficiency ratio is evaluate the   waste heat given off of a system. Waste heat is energy.There is alot  of waste heat given off an air compressor and a hydraulic system as  per recoverable energy.Now compare that with the waste heat given off  a electric drill. Doesn't even come close. A diesel engine is 45%  efficient that is to say 45% is mechanical energy and 55% is waste  heat of which 30% goes out the exhaust tube as a compressed energy  source.  BMW recently came out with an invention to capture this  *free* energy.  > Henri >   ----- Original Message -----  >   From: robert44654  >   To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com  >   Sent: Sunday, December 25, 2005 1:13 PM >   Subject: [origamiboats] alternate energy storage >  >  >        It has occured to me that perhaps a method of energy storage   on a  >   metal boat especially could be in the form of compressed air.  Now >   hear me out.  I have a sailboat with 4 batteries for energy   storage.   >   I have to replace the batteries every 3 to 5 years and after the   first  >   2 years the energy storage capability of the batteries is a   fraction  >   of the abilities of the new battery.  Now I am not always good   about  >   recharging the battery as it gets low, but I bet most of you are   like  >   me.  Its 9 PM  and I am using the lights or watching TV, etc.   compay  >   is over and the last thing in the world I want to do is run the   diesel  >   engine for an hour so the battery doesn't drain down below 50%. >  >   France has put out a car that runs on compressed air.  Now the   air is  >   compressed almost to the point that it is a liquid, but what if   you  >   compressed the air to 150 to 500 PSI.   You could have a air   powered  >   engine (well insulated for sound ) run a small generator.    Probablely  >   as small as 100 watt generator could work.  It could charge a   battery  >   if you needed 110 volts for a microwave , etc. via an invertor.    The  >   light system could run off 12v.   >  >   Now where could you put air tanks?  duh, its a sailboat,  by >   incorperating it into the hull you could have multiple tanks with >   several hundred cubic feet of tankage.  Each tank could have   seperate  >   hoses to the air engine. >  >   Of course all those tanks would have a downside.  It may take the >   royal navy all day of target practice to sink the darn thing! >  >   All you engineers out there any calculations on the amount of   energy  >   that could be stored in say 200 cubic feet at 200 PSI? >  >   robert >  >  >  >  >  >  >   To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com >   To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-  unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com   >   Yahoo! Groups Links >  >  >  >     >  >  >  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > |
9988|9979|2005-12-30 17:39:09|brentswain38|Re: NEW   TriKeeler   -   Triakel|We have found very little diference in performance between a single  keeler and a twin keeler. Any boats that I've heard of with three  keels have been slower than a government refund. Too much interaction  between the three. Brent   --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Gerd" <yago@j...> wrote: > > can't say I get it either...  most of the windward keel would lift  out  > when heeling and is anyway covered by the hull and in the water  > already siturbed by the leeward keel... the leeweard keel maybe  > supposed to provide lift / righting moment as well? I really can't  see  > the point. >  > What I would not want to go to sea with for sure is this deep 3rd  keel  > at the the forefoot, seems to me that that would give you a perfect  > croche-pied to stumble or even summersault the boat over when going  > down big seas in chaotic conditions >  > Gerd > The Yago Project at http://www.justmueller.com/boats/ > |
9989|9960|2005-12-30 18:13:38|Wesley Cox|Re: alternate energy storage|I don't know about availability.  The last I knew price is high.   Personally, the idea of hydrogen gas on a boat scares me.  A single  small fuel cell wouldn't contain a great quantity of hydrogen, but  enough for significant energy storage would contain a significant amount  of a very explosive combination of gasses.  brentswain38 wrote:   >I recently saw an article in  british magazine about a couple who  >chose a small fuel cell in place of a battery. Does anyone know more  >about these and their price and availability? >Brent > >--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Henri Naths" <c_hnaths@t...>  >wrote: >   > >>Hi Robert,  >>Your question of alternate energy storage is always an intriguing   >>     >> >quest to say the least. >   > >>The way I see it is simple.   My shop air compressors of one horse  >>     >> >power puts out eight cfm .The air tools that uses this volume of air  >eg. die grinder, drill etc uses the entire volume of air. In other  >words it takes one horse power to drill a hole where a Makita  >electric drill doing the same job uses one tenth the power. So air  >power is only 10 % efficient. >   > >>Less in some cases: eg..air paint gun, 3hp or 18cfm vs an electric  >>     >> >paint gun one tenth of a horse power >   > >>These are just rough calculations to illustrate my point. >>A simple way of guestinating an efficiency ratio is evaluate the  >>     >> >waste heat given off of a system. Waste heat is energy.There is alot  >of waste heat given off an air compressor and a hydraulic system as  >per recoverable energy.Now compare that with the waste heat given off  >a electric drill. Doesn't even come close. A diesel engine is 45%  >efficient that is to say 45% is mechanical energy and 55% is waste  >heat of which 30% goes out the exhaust tube as a compressed energy  >source.  BMW recently came out with an invention to capture this  >*free* energy. >   > >>Henri >>  ----- Original Message -----  >>  From: robert44654  >>  To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com  >>  Sent: Sunday, December 25, 2005 1:13 PM >>  Subject: [origamiboats] alternate energy storage >> >> >>       It has occured to me that perhaps a method of energy storage  >>     >> >on a >   > >>  metal boat especially could be in the form of compressed air.  Now >>  hear me out.  I have a sailboat with 4 batteries for energy  >>     >> >storage.  >   > >>  I have to replace the batteries every 3 to 5 years and after the  >>     >> >first >   > >>  2 years the energy storage capability of the batteries is a  >>     >> >fraction >   > >>  of the abilities of the new battery.  Now I am not always good  >>     >> >about >   > >>  recharging the battery as it gets low, but I bet most of you are  >>     >> >like >   > >>  me.  Its 9 PM  and I am using the lights or watching TV, etc.  >>     >> >compay >   > >>  is over and the last thing in the world I want to do is run the  >>     >> >diesel >   > >>  engine for an hour so the battery doesn't drain down below 50%. >> >>  France has put out a car that runs on compressed air.  Now the  >>     >> >air is >   > >>  compressed almost to the point that it is a liquid, but what if  >>     >> >you >   > >>  compressed the air to 150 to 500 PSI.   You could have a air  >>     >> >powered >   > >>  engine (well insulated for sound ) run a small generator.   >>     >> >Probablely >   > >>  as small as 100 watt generator could work.  It could charge a  >>     >> >battery >   > >>  if you needed 110 volts for a microwave , etc. via an invertor.   >>     >> >The >   > >>  light system could run off 12v.   >> >>  Now where could you put air tanks?  duh, its a sailboat,  by >>  incorperating it into the hull you could have multiple tanks with >>  several hundred cubic feet of tankage.  Each tank could have  >>     >> >seperate >   > >>  hoses to the air engine. >> >>  Of course all those tanks would have a downside.  It may take the >>  royal navy all day of target practice to sink the darn thing! >> >>  All you engineers out there any calculations on the amount of  >>     >> >energy >   > >>  that could be stored in say 200 cubic feet at 200 PSI? >> >>  robert >> >> >> >> >> >> >>  To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com >>  To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats- >>     >> >unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com  >   > >>  Yahoo! Groups Links >> >> >> >>    >> >> >> >>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >> >>     >> > > > > > > > >To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com >To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com  >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > >  > > > >   > |
9990|9986|2005-12-30 19:03:59|tom|Re: Plywood|Hello Steve  I havnt heard of any origami plywood designs but Ive seen a lot of stich  and glue designs for smaller boats.  Are you wanting to build it origami? Tom  ----- Original Message -----  From: "yahn101a" <yahns@...> To: <origamiboats@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, December 30, 2005 2:11 PM Subject: [origamiboats] Plywood   > I'm new to this group. I could never afford a big steel boat. But > making a 16 footer from plywood is what I would try to do. Has this > been tried with success? I thinking of a sweet 19th century style > rowing boat. Whitehall like. > Steve Yahn, near Seattle > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:  > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > |
9991|9960|2005-12-30 19:57:13|Frank Duerr|Re: alternate energy storage|Hi group, this is my first post, and I am from Germany, so I already apologize  for not exactly picking the proper word. But now to the actual concern: The first time I saw such a fuel cell was on www.shipshop.de, a shop  selling mainly bluewater cruising equipment, and it´s powered by  methanol alcohol. The price is very high, so I never thought about buying one but the idea is great, I think. I never saw it in  action, nor have I read about  using it, a little Honda generator would be my favourite to use.  A happy new year from Germany Frank|
9992|9960|2005-12-30 20:18:56|Jon & Wanda(Tink)|Re: alternate energy storage|http://www.udomi.de/products/fuelcellsystems-e.html  This is one link I know I had others.  Jon|
9993|9986|2005-12-30 20:56:00|Alex Christie|Re: Plywood|Put "tortured Plywood boats" or "tortured ply boats",  "Developed Ply  or Plywood" into any search engine and you'll find many sites showing  how plywood can be worked for your particular needs.  Paul Gartside, a designer in my province, has this design in a 15'  rowing skiff using Tortured Ply or Developed Plywood techniques:  http://www.gartsideboats.com/catrow2.php  Also, remember that just like with origami modeling, anything that you  can figure out using small sheets of cardboard will work, with a little  poking here and there, in the larger size as you scale it up.  You can  also get a tortured ply design and adjust to your needs if it doesn't  quite suit what you like.  Modeling: Once you make a model out of cardboard or 1/8" ply, it will  help you understand how the shape you see in a flat pattern translates  into a real hull.  Soon you'll start seeing the world as a place made  out of planar surfaces tortured to pass as 3 dimensions, and you can  start "unfolding" shapes in your mind!  Alex    On 30-Dec-05, at 4:03 PM, tom wrote:  > Hello Steve >  I havnt heard of any origami plywood designs but Ive seen a lot of  > stich >  and glue designs for smaller boats. >  Are you wanting to build it origami? >  Tom >  ----- Original Message -----   [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
9994|9986|2005-12-30 22:26:08|Michael Collins|Re: Plywood|I am currently designing a boat which can be built in plywood.  In order  to follow the orgami techniques with plywood, I suggest investigating  Vacuum Resin Infusion techniques.  This technique allows you to assemble  large panels of a composite of plywood and epoxy fiberglass on a large  flat table or surface.  The large plywood panel can then be folded  according to orgami techniques.  If you scale down the size, you might  be able to build from patterns of an orgami steel design.   I am using orgami to build components of the hull for a trimaran.  For a  30' boat, a sandwich composite is made with the plywood/epoxy/fiberglass  for the outer hull and an interior hull with polyurethane foam blown in  between the two surfaces.   This composite provides high strength and  buoyancy.   Just the plywood/epoxy/fiberglass shell should  be strong  enough for a small 16' boat.   Michael   yahn101a wrote:   >I'm new to this group. I could never afford a big steel boat. But  >making a 16 footer from plywood is what I would try to do. Has this  >been tried with success? I thinking of a sweet 19th century style  >rowing boat. Whitehall like. >Steve Yahn, near Seattle > > > > > > >To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com >To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com  >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > >  > > > >   > |
9995|9986|2005-12-30 23:07:12|Puck III|Re: Plywood|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "yahn101a" <yahns@w...> wrote:  > > I'm new to this group. I could never afford a big steel boat. But  > making a 16 footer from plywood is what I would try to do. Has this  > been tried with success? I thinking of a sweet 19th century style  > rowing boat. Whitehall like. > Steve Yahn, near Seattle >   Hi Steve , you could have a look at some Origami Plywood Design in : http://groups.yahoo.com/group/OrigamiPlyBoatDesign/  where you will find many Links and Photos to  Origami Boat Builders , Designs and Designers . Some members there have really fine photo-albums ,  as an example just see one of them : http://www.irwinwhitney.blogspot.com/ a look a the buildingpics in : http://www.bandbyachtdesigns.com/cs20.htm will show you the building is done in hours rather than weeks.  The example is just one amongst many . OrigamiPlyBoatDesign is just a Repository for Origami Boats in General , Plywood and Composite are in the Topic there . I sure hope other members in here reading this post will be friendly enough to upload any link or pic regarding any Origami boat in the Group : http://groups.yahoo.com/group/OrigamiPlyBoatDesign/ so that that Repository can remain the best HUB for all interested in Origami Design.  Old Ben|
9996|9960|2005-12-30 23:41:44|Puck III|Re: alternate energy storage|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Frank Duerr" <fdrake123@h...>  wrote:  > > Hi group, > this is my first post, and I am from Germany, so I already   apologize   > for not exactly picking the proper word. > But now to the actual concern: > The first time I saw such a fuel cell was on www.shipshop.de, a   shop   > selling mainly bluewater cruising equipment, and it´s powered by  > methanol alcohol. The price is very high, so I never thought > about buying one but the idea is great, I think. I never saw it in  > action, nor have I read about  > using it, a little Honda generator would be my favourite to use. >  > A happy new year from Germany > Frank >  Hi Frank , welcome to this World Wide Famous Group !!! thanks for your post about the Fuel Cell. Here come a Link to a fuel cell driven bike : http://www.envbike.com/  I think Fuel Cell prices will decrease fast in the near future ,as soon as competition and massproduction will make it more available for anyone .  I like to post a pic now and then :-) please find  - HAPPY 2006 - in http://www.buildingyourboat.com/tiki-browse_gallery.php?galleryId=4  Have a nice New Years Party !!! Cheers from Belgium.  Old Ben|
9997|9903|2005-12-31 17:13:20|..|Some questions for the professional Welders in the Group|Hi Ben, I did send you a reply off list as I was not sure if this subject was OT, but as you did not reply maybe you did not get my email.  I have design products to be  moulded by the rotational  moulding process for a number of years,the welding of the mould is not the main problem any good welder should be  able to do the welding. The important thing is the quality of the fabrication,as you say all the marks and imperfections are reproduced in the finished product. The hull must be design to use the properties of the moulding  material which is not as stiff as other boat building materials,also the PU foam will not bond to HDPE. The design should have the minimum of flat surfaces,to use origami construction would not be necessary or desirable. If you require any more information email me,but the moulded hulls will not cost peanuts as there will be lot of material in a dingy hull and the moulding process requires some expertise as the material will degrade and the long term life of the hull will be affected if the heating of the mould and material is not  done correctly. It is not just as simple as lighting a fire under the mould. Geoff Cheshire England     ------------------------------------------------------------------ Some questions for the professional Welders in the Group  Hi guys , I have some questions if I may .  Does anybody amongst you ever welded a mould for a " Low-Tech Open Fire Rotomould "   If you have not , some friend may have , sure that system is used somewhere near you. It is about 5 miles from my home so I will trye to take some pics tomorrow .   I wonder how much it would cost to build a strong enough and wellfinished opening steel mould , all faults will reflect in every product comming out of that mould hull + deck , cause when such a trailorable openfire building unit  is finished the Origami Dinghies would cost peanuts....:-)  Deck and hull in one piece , with foam injected for strenght and safety .     Is the Rotomould issue irrelevant ???         [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]|
9998|9986|2006-01-01 00:43:35|yahn101a|Re: Plywood|Thank you very much, Steve Yahn    --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III" <ben_azo@h...>  wrote:  > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "yahn101a" <yahns@w...> wrote: > > > > I'm new to this group. I could never afford a big steel boat.   But   > > making a 16 footer from plywood is what I would try to do. Has   this   > > been tried with success? I thinking of a sweet 19th century   style   > > rowing boat. Whitehall like. > > Steve Yahn, near Seattle > > >  > Hi Steve , you could have a look at some Origami Plywood Design   in :  > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/OrigamiPlyBoatDesign/ >  > where you will find many Links and Photos to  > Origami Boat Builders , Designs and Designers . > Some members there have really fine photo-albums ,  > as an example just see one of them : > http://www.irwinwhitney.blogspot.com/ > a look a the buildingpics in : > http://www.bandbyachtdesigns.com/cs20.htm > will show you the building is done in hours rather than weeks. >  > The example is just one amongst many . > OrigamiPlyBoatDesign is just a Repository for > Origami Boats in General , Plywood and Composite are > in the Topic there . > I sure hope other members in here reading this post > will be friendly enough to upload any link or pic > regarding any Origami boat in the Group : > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/OrigamiPlyBoatDesign/ > so that that Repository can remain the best HUB > for all interested in Origami Design. >  > Old Ben > |
9999|9960|2006-01-01 05:21:26|edward_stoneuk|Re: alternate energy storage|Brent, In which magazine did you see the article about fuel cells? Regards, Ted|
10000|10000|2006-01-01 05:56:06|edward_stoneuk|Centre of buoyancy|Brent, Do you know where the centre of buoyancy is on a 36?  I am thinking  that the centre of gravity fore and aft should match it so that the  boat floats level.  In your book you mention about putting a pipe  under the boat to check its balance.  Where should that be? Regards, Ted|