10001|10001|2006-01-01 06:36:54|edward_stoneuk|Skeg Aperture|Uploaded to Ted & Fiona's Boat Bits is a photo of the aperture closing clamp we used together with a photo of the finished job. I cut the aperture too high and had to weld in more plate to get the right shape. I also had to cut the weld between the skeg and hull above the aperture and then tack and pull the sides together and then tack again, cut the original tacks and pull a bit more and so on to bring the sides together. Regards, Ted| 10002|9977|2006-01-01 12:51:50|Gary|Re: Ass Wedge|Hmmmmm.... ass wedge. V. nice Brent. Perhaps could be optional feature on the composter head you have been perfecting. P.S... happy new year Gary --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "brentswain38" wrote: > > I found a way to make the cockpit far more comfortable. > When you sit with your back against the back of the pilothouse , your > ass keeps sliding out from under you. I took a 16 inch by 14 inch piece > of half inch plywood and nailed a 2X4 along one 16 inch side , making a > wedge, with the 2X4 side out, plywood up. It makes the cockpit far more > comfortable for long term sitting and also works well below decks. > Brent > | 10003|10001|2006-01-01 13:27:56|tom|Re: Skeg Aperture|Hello Ted I took a look at youre skeg picture, it looks like it turned out good. nice job. I have a question on skeg and rudder design, Ive seen a drawing with the leading edge of rudder and trailing edge of skeg being somewhat pointed is supposed to be better for turning ,but what about running straight, if the skeg and rudder are one airfoil shape wouldnt there be less drag ? Just wondering if theres a happy medium between the two before I build the one for my 26 . Happy New year everyone Tom ----- Original Message ----- From: "edward_stoneuk" To: Sent: Sunday, January 01, 2006 3:36 AM Subject: [origamiboats] Skeg Aperture > Uploaded to Ted & Fiona's Boat Bits is a photo of the aperture closing > clamp we used together with a photo of the finished job. > > I cut the aperture too high and had to weld in more plate to get the > right shape. I also had to cut the weld between the skeg and hull > above the aperture and then tack and pull the sides together and then > tack again, cut the original tacks and pull a bit more and so on to > bring the sides together. > Regards, > Ted > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > | 10004|9903|2006-01-01 21:59:14|Puck III|Re: Some questions for the professional Welders in the Group|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, ".." wrote: > > Hi Ben, ---------------------------------------------------------------- Hi Geoff, indeed , I did not receive your email . Looking at the clicks in : http://www.buildingyourboat.com/tiki-browse_gallery.php?galleryId=4 I really dought the Rotomould subject is HOT : only 92 clicks cause the 61 clicks on the first rotom pic is basicaly the same . Much more interest for the dinghies themselves....... and much much more for the - HAPPY 2006 - pic...... I received a lot of mails about dinghies , your post is the only one about Rotomould, but there is the sillent majority :-) I was trying to rally some attention for an active life-boat dinghy for a cheap price , the same principle that is used by http://www.tinker.co.uk/ on their inflatables. As you say so well , any decent welder should be able to make a mould or matrix made out of steel plate or cast aluminum . I saw an origami designed boat with many darts to give the longer flat surfaces some clincker imitation spray or lifting rails reinforcements , always usefull when wanting to build as light as possible . Hull , decks and even lockerspaces could be build in without any joints , all underdeck reinforcements being attachted before moulding , color added to product . I see the foam injected before taking the product out of the mould to give the actual strenght to thin skins , giving build in boyancy at the same time :-) The Rotomould system is mainly 4 steps : 1 polyethyleen powder goes in and the exact same weight will comme out of the matrix [ minimum material loss ] 2 heating of the rotating matrix [ 3 to 30 minutes or longer ] good moulders know the tricks to overheate the difficult to penetrate places or chines so materials will stick there faster , easyer and a bit thicker and reinforce . 3 cooling proces once the heat is turned of . now is the moment to inject the foam . 4 take the product out the mould :-) the "demoulant" or anti-adhesive applyed afther cleaning and before re-using the mould is important . I agree totaly when you say :> It is not just as simple as lighting a fire under the mould.> On the other hand it remains one of the simplest and best lowcost moulding methods I have experience with . Well designed and well build you can make a fine product. But we have a problem :-) No real interst... Lett us wait a bit... one never realy knows only time will tell. Thanks again for your post , I feel less lonely with my rotomould proposal :-) Old Ben ----------------------------------------------------------- > Message 9997 of 10003 From: ".." > Date: Sat Dec 31, 2005 11:12 pm > Subject:Some questions for the professional Welders in the Group > yachtsubaru > > Hi Ben, > I did send you a reply off list as I was not sure if this > subject was OT, but as you did not reply maybe you did not > get my email. > I have design products to be moulded by the rotational > moulding process for a number of years,the welding of the > mould is not the main problem any good welder should be > able to do the welding. > The important thing is the quality of the fabrication,as > you say all the marks and imperfections are reproduced in > the finished product. > The hull must be design to use the properties of the moulding > material which is not as stiff as other boat building > materials,also the PU foam will not bond to HDPE. > The design should have the minimum of flat surfaces,to use > origami construction would not be necessary or desirable. > If you require any more information email me,but the moulded > hulls will not cost peanuts as there will be lot of material > in a dingy hull and the moulding process requires some expertise > as the material will degrade and the long term life of the hull > will be affected if the heating of the mould and material is not > done correctly. > It is not just as simple as lighting a fire under the mould. > Geoff > Cheshire > England > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III" wrote: > > > > Some questions for the professional Welders in the Group > > > > Hi guys , I have some questions if I may . > > > > Does anybody amongst you ever welded a mould > > for a " Low-Tech Open Fire Rotomould " > > > > See : http://www.blrotomould.com/product.htm > > to find the same pic I uploaded in the > > Origamiboats2 Dinghy Photo Album , > > http://tinyurl.com/b58s9 > > would you like to start from there , > > just paste the Pic's URL into your adressbar > > and you will be at the same adress. > > > > If you have not , some friend may have , > > sure that system is used somewhere near you. > > It is about 5 miles from my home so I will > > trye to take some pics tomorrow . > > > > Please have a look at http://www.midget-club.com/ > > and push for : 15'Oostzeejol nieuw ( NEW :-) > > for 200 Euro members can rent the mould to > > build their own boat . > > > > I wonder how much it would cost to build a strong > > enough and wellfinished opening steel mould , > > all faults will reflect in every product comming > > out of that mould hull + deck , > > cause when such a trailorable openfire building unit > > is finished the Origami Dinghies would cost peanuts....:-) > > > > Deck and hull in one piece , with foam injected > > for strenght and safety . > > > > One can argue much about the Dinghy's designgoal, > > sure it should be designed anybody can build one > > easely by using good plans . > > > > Is the Rotomould issue irrelevant ??? > > Many guys like to bye a cheap , proven and good finished > > product on shelf at some dealers outlett. > > > > Please tell me what you think . > > > > Old Ben > | 10005|10001|2006-01-02 05:14:19|edward_stoneuk|Re: Skeg Aperture|Happy New year Tom and everyone. Thanks for your post. Brent has written about skeg and rudder design in his book. I am following that more or less as I don't have strong views or knowledge about it one way or the other. That said I intend shortening the rudder so that the tiller goes through the transom instead of over it. I saw the idea on Dudley Dix's Hout Bay 33 and thought that it looked good and that it will save a bit of weight. www.dixdesign.com/hb33.htm. Regards, Ted| 10006|10001|2006-01-02 17:11:56|brentswain38|Re: Skeg Aperture|Running the tiller thru the transom may reduce your ability to stow propane bottles under the tiller and may make it hard to take the rudder off easily. It may also make it hard to put the tiller as hard over. Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "edward_stoneuk" wrote: > > > Happy New year Tom and everyone. > > Thanks for your post. Brent has written about skeg and rudder design > in his book. I am following that more or less as I don't have strong > views or knowledge about it one way or the other. That said I intend > shortening the rudder so that the tiller goes through the transom > instead of over it. I saw the idea on Dudley Dix's Hout Bay 33 and > thought that it looked good and that it will save a bit of weight. > www.dixdesign.com/hb33.htm. > Regards, > Ted > | 10007|9960|2006-01-02 17:17:31|brentswain38|Re: alternate energy storage|Given the potential demand the price could drop drastically once the public begins to buy thenm en mass. It looks like it could be stowed on deck in a locker. Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Jon & Wanda(Tink)" wrote: > > http://www.udomi.de/products/fuelcellsystems-e.html > > This is one link I know I had others. > > Jon > | 10008|9960|2006-01-02 17:19:32|brentswain38|Re: alternate energy storage|I can't remember which Magazinre it was , probably a British one, possibly Practical boat owner . Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "edward_stoneuk" wrote: > > Brent, > In which magazine did you see the article about fuel cells? > Regards, > Ted > | 10009|10000|2006-01-02 17:23:40|brentswain38|Re: Centre of buoyancy|The centre of buoyancy is about 20 ft 6 inches back along the plate from the point of the bow, a good place to put a couple of lifting eyes in the bulwark.it's better to have a boat a little low in the bow ( about thre inches )as there is far more storage space aft and after loading and living aboard for a while, most boats tend to squat in the stern. Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "edward_stoneuk" wrote: > > Brent, > Do you know where the centre of buoyancy is on a 36? I am thinking > that the centre of gravity fore and aft should match it so that the > boat floats level. In your book you mention about putting a pipe > under the boat to check its balance. Where should that be? > Regards, > Ted > | 10010|10001|2006-01-02 17:23:50|brentswain38|Re: Skeg Aperture|My book explains the shape of the rudder ansd skeg. Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "tom" wrote: > > Hello Ted > I took a look at youre skeg picture, it looks like it turned out good. nice > job. > I have a question on skeg and rudder design, Ive seen a drawing with the > leading edge of rudder and trailing edge of skeg being somewhat pointed is > supposed to be better for turning ,but what about running straight, if the > skeg and rudder are one airfoil shape wouldnt there be less drag ? > Just wondering if theres a happy medium between the two before I build the > one for my 26 . > Happy New year everyone > Tom > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "edward_stoneuk" > To: > Sent: Sunday, January 01, 2006 3:36 AM > Subject: [origamiboats] Skeg Aperture > > > > Uploaded to Ted & Fiona's Boat Bits is a photo of the aperture closing > > clamp we used together with a photo of the finished job. > > > > I cut the aperture too high and had to weld in more plate to get the > > right shape. I also had to cut the weld between the skeg and hull > > above the aperture and then tack and pull the sides together and then > > tack again, cut the original tacks and pull a bit more and so on to > > bring the sides together. > > Regards, > > Ted > > > > > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > | 10011|10000|2006-01-03 04:06:07|edward_stoneuk|Re: Centre of buoyancy|Brent, Thanks. Is that measurement horizontal or outside the hull along the centreline, or outside the hull plate around under the gunwhale pipe? Regards, Ted -- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "brentswain38" wrote: > The centre of buoyancy is about 20 ft 6 inches back along the plate > from the point of the bow, a good place to put a couple of lifting > eyes in the bulwark.it's better to have a boat a little low in the > bow ( about thre inches )as there is far more storage space aft and > after loading and living aboard for a while, most boats tend to squat > in the stern. > Brent | 10012|9960|2006-01-03 04:57:50|edward_stoneuk|Re: alternate energy storage|Brent, We get the Practical Boat Owner but I cannot remember an article on fuel cells. That doesn't mean that there wasn't one it just means I cannot remember. Do you know about which month/year it was? Regards, Ted| 10013|10001|2006-01-03 09:04:31|gyles llewellyn|Re: Skeg Aperture|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "edward_stoneuk" wrote: > > > That said I intend > shortening the rudder so that the tiller goes through the transom > instead of over it. I saw the idea on Dudley Dix's Hout Bay 33 and > thought that it looked good and that it will save a bit of weight. > www.dixdesign.com/hb33.htm. > Regards, > Ted > I had a similar arrangement on one of my previous boats a Nicholson 31, you could pull the tiller forward as it engaged with a bolt which was located in a ss fabrication with two long slots, when fully forward it then hinged up out of the way, giving access to the liferaft stowage, it worked well. Th rudder could also be taken off without a problem, as the boat had horrible weather helm I can vouch for its solidity. http://www.yachtsnet.co.uk/archives/nicholson-31/nicholson-31.htm| 10014|9968|2006-01-03 15:27:34|a_admi|Metric Material List for Jasmina BS 26'|Hi Tom , Aaron and Ted . Brent Swain's book and plans for the 26' came in today ! The book and plans survived the long transatlantic voyage extreemly well , I will have to translate all to metric now. I made a Jasmina BS 26' photoalbum near Tom's BS 26' album, where I hope to post some sketches and ideas soon. Cause I would like to have the boat sailing next summer . I wonder if you made some accomodation sketches , cause I would love to see them as much as I like to see more photos you may have . Jasmina was the name my family and me choose over the New Year period , hoping that name will bring us good luck. http://jasmin-tabatabai.com/english/ Happy New Year to All Admi ------------------------------------------ --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "a_admi" wrote: > > Thanks Tom , much appreciated . > Admi > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "tom" wrote: > > > > Hello > > I just miked the 12 gage Im useing for the decking and its 2.5 mm, > its a > > little under 1/8". 1/8" is 3.19 mm and the 3/16" is 4.8 mm, > probably > > considerd 5 mm > > Tom > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "a_admi" > > To: > > Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2005 12:01 PM > > Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Metric Material List for the 26' BS > > > > > > > Sorry All , the direct Link I posted is not working , > > > it is working in origamiboats2 . > > > The file is there . > > > I have a technical question for the Canadians . > > > > > > Converting the non metric to metric brought some questions: > > > > > > How thick is a 1/8th plate in mm ? o,3175 cm on my calculator . > > > > > > I received Brent Swain's confirmation by email faster > > > than the Canada Post / Postes Canada from Royston > > > where I find a the post stamp in Eglish and French :-) > > > > > > 3mm is a standard EU measurement . > > > I realy wonder how many millimeters the 1/8th plate is . > > > > > > anybody with a metric ruller to read it out ?? > > > > > > Thanks in advance for any advise or directions . > > > > > > The same question comes for the 3/16th where I have 0,47625cm > > > wich I turned into 0,5cm or 5mm a standard measurement over here. > > > > > > Thanks in advance . > > > > > > Best Season's Greetings for All. > > > > > > Admi > > > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "a_admi" wrote: > > >> > > >> From: origamiboats2@yahoogroups.com > > >> Date: Tue Dec 27, 2005 8:37 pm > > >> Subject: New file uploaded to origamiboats2 > > >> origamiboats2@yahoogroups.com > > >> Send Email > > >> > > >> > > >> Hello, > > >> > > >> This email message is a notification to let you know that > > >> a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the origamiboats2 > > >> group. > > >> > > >> File : / 26' BS/Materiaallijst BS 26'.doc > > >> Uploaded by : a_admi > > >> Description : Metric material list > > >> > > >> You can access this file at the URL: > > >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats2/files/%20%2026%27% 20% > > >> 20BS/Materiaall\ > > >> ijst%20BS%2026%27.doc > > >> > > >> To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit: > > >> http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files > > >> > > >> Regards, > > >> > > >> a_admi > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > > > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > | 10015|9968|2006-01-03 17:11:20|brentswain38|Re: Metric Material List for Jasmina BS 26'|You could buy a Canadian tape measure which is both metric and Inches. Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "a_admi" wrote: > > Hi Tom , Aaron and Ted . > Brent Swain's book and plans for the 26' came in today ! > > The book and plans survived the long transatlantic voyage > extreemly well , I will have to translate all to metric now. > > I made a Jasmina BS 26' photoalbum near Tom's BS 26' album, > where I hope to post some sketches and ideas soon. > Cause I would like to have the boat sailing next summer . > > I wonder if you made some accomodation sketches , cause > I would love to see them as much as I like to see more > photos you may have . > > Jasmina was the name my family and me choose over the > New Year period , hoping that name will bring us good luck. > http://jasmin-tabatabai.com/english/ > > Happy New Year to All > Admi > ------------------------------------------ > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "a_admi" wrote: > > > > Thanks Tom , much appreciated . > > Admi > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "tom" wrote: > > > > > > Hello > > > I just miked the 12 gage Im useing for the decking and its 2.5 > mm, > > its a > > > little under 1/8". 1/8" is 3.19 mm and the 3/16" is 4.8 mm, > > probably > > > considerd 5 mm > > > Tom > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "a_admi" > > > To: > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2005 12:01 PM > > > Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Metric Material List for the 26' BS > > > > > > > > > > Sorry All , the direct Link I posted is not working , > > > > it is working in origamiboats2 . > > > > The file is there . > > > > I have a technical question for the Canadians . > > > > > > > > Converting the non metric to metric brought some questions: > > > > > > > > How thick is a 1/8th plate in mm ? o,3175 cm on my calculator . > > > > > > > > I received Brent Swain's confirmation by email faster > > > > than the Canada Post / Postes Canada from Royston > > > > where I find a the post stamp in Eglish and French :-) > > > > > > > > 3mm is a standard EU measurement . > > > > I realy wonder how many millimeters the 1/8th plate is . > > > > > > > > anybody with a metric ruller to read it out ?? > > > > > > > > Thanks in advance for any advise or directions . > > > > > > > > The same question comes for the 3/16th where I have 0,47625cm > > > > wich I turned into 0,5cm or 5mm a standard measurement over > here. > > > > > > > > Thanks in advance . > > > > > > > > Best Season's Greetings for All. > > > > > > > > Admi > > > > > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "a_admi" > wrote: > > > >> > > > >> From: origamiboats2@yahoogroups.com > > > >> Date: Tue Dec 27, 2005 8:37 pm > > > >> Subject: New file uploaded to origamiboats2 > > > >> origamiboats2@yahoogroups.com > > > >> Send Email > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> Hello, > > > >> > > > >> This email message is a notification to let you know that > > > >> a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the origamiboats2 > > > >> group. > > > >> > > > >> File : / 26' BS/Materiaallijst BS 26'.doc > > > >> Uploaded by : a_admi > > > >> Description : Metric material list > > > >> > > > >> You can access this file at the URL: > > > >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats2/files/%20%2026% 27% > 20% > > > >> 20BS/Materiaall\ > > > >> ijst%20BS%2026%27.doc > > > >> > > > >> To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit: > > > >> http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files > > > >> > > > >> Regards, > > > >> > > > >> a_admi > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > > > > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > | 10016|10000|2006-01-03 17:12:14|brentswain38|Re: Centre of buoyancy|It's outside the hull plate along the gunwhale pipe. Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "edward_stoneuk" wrote: > > Brent, > Thanks. > Is that measurement horizontal or outside the hull along the > centreline, or outside the hull plate around under the gunwhale pipe? > Regards, > Ted > > > > > -- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "brentswain38" > wrote: > > > The centre of buoyancy is about 20 ft 6 inches back along the > plate > > from the point of the bow, a good place to put a couple of lifting > > eyes in the bulwark.it's better to have a boat a little low in the > > bow ( about thre inches )as there is far more storage space aft > and > > after loading and living aboard for a while, most boats tend to > squat > > in the stern. > > Brent > | 10017|9968|2006-01-03 19:49:51|a_admi|Re: Metric Material List for Jasmina BS 26'|I bought a 25' US ruler with both metric and inches in Annapolis . That will not be of much use on the 1" = 1'0" scale . May I ask the same question as Ted , where the is the CC [ centre de carene ] Boyancy Center I presume on the 26'? I found an interesting post from Alex in the archives : > Winston Bushnell, who sailed his 26 foot Swain hull through the NW Passage, installed a centreboard. It would likely have been a poor idea to have twin keels on a vessel which could get frozen in ice and be crushed! He was able to skid the boat out of the water on a big sheet of steel (or something like that) for a winter-over in one of the villages up north. I think arctic travel would be the only place where twin keels might occasionally present a liability! I plan to sail in the tropics , the rivermouth where the boat will be moored is full of moving sandbanks , so the minimum draft seems an attractive option to look into . I certainly want a collapsable wooden mast in a tabernacle , cause good cheap wood it is available localy . Not sure yet to go for a bermudian or a gaff. Admi --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "brentswain38" wrote: > > You could buy a Canadian tape measure which is both metric and Inches. > Brent > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "a_admi" wrote: > > > > Hi Tom , Aaron and Ted . > > Brent Swain's book and plans for the 26' came in today ! > > > > The book and plans survived the long transatlantic voyage > > extreemly well , I will have to translate all to metric now. > > > > I made a Jasmina BS 26' photoalbum near Tom's BS 26' album, > > where I hope to post some sketches and ideas soon. > > Cause I would like to have the boat sailing next summer . > > > > I wonder if you made some accomodation sketches , cause > > I would love to see them as much as I like to see more > > photos you may have . > > > > Jasmina was the name my family and me choose over the > > New Year period , hoping that name will bring us good luck. > > http://jasmin-tabatabai.com/english/ > > > > Happy New Year to All > > Admi > > ------------------------------------------ > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "a_admi" wrote: > > > > > > Thanks Tom , much appreciated . > > > Admi > > > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "tom" wrote: > > > > > > > > Hello > > > > I just miked the 12 gage Im useing for the decking and its 2.5 > > mm, > > > its a > > > > little under 1/8". 1/8" is 3.19 mm and the 3/16" is 4.8 mm, > > > probably > > > > considerd 5 mm > > > > Tom > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: "a_admi" > > > > To: > > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2005 12:01 PM > > > > Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Metric Material List for the 26' BS > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sorry All , the direct Link I posted is not working , > > > > > it is working in origamiboats2 . > > > > > The file is there . > > > > > I have a technical question for the Canadians . > > > > > > > > > > Converting the non metric to metric brought some questions: > > > > > > > > > > How thick is a 1/8th plate in mm ? o,3175 cm on my > calculator . > > > > > > > > > > I received Brent Swain's confirmation by email faster > > > > > than the Canada Post / Postes Canada from Royston > > > > > where I find a the post stamp in Eglish and French :-) > > > > > > > > > > 3mm is a standard EU measurement . > > > > > I realy wonder how many millimeters the 1/8th plate is . > > > > > > > > > > anybody with a metric ruller to read it out ?? > > > > > > > > > > Thanks in advance for any advise or directions . > > > > > > > > > > The same question comes for the 3/16th where I have 0,47625cm > > > > > wich I turned into 0,5cm or 5mm a standard measurement over > > here. > > > > > > > > > > Thanks in advance . > > > > > > > > > > Best Season's Greetings for All. > > > > > > > > > > Admi > > > > > > > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "a_admi" > > wrote: > > > > >> > > > > >> From: origamiboats2@yahoogroups.com > > > > >> Date: Tue Dec 27, 2005 8:37 pm > > > > >> Subject: New file uploaded to origamiboats2 > > > > >> origamiboats2@yahoogroups.com > > > > >> Send Email > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> Hello, > > > > >> > > > > >> This email message is a notification to let you know that > > > > >> a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the > origamiboats2 > > > > >> group. > > > > >> > > > > >> File : / 26' BS/Materiaallijst BS 26'.doc > > > > >> Uploaded by : a_admi > > > > >> Description : Metric material list > > > > >> > > > > >> You can access this file at the URL: > > > > >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats2/files/%20%2026% > 27% > > 20% > > > > >> 20BS/Materiaall\ > > > > >> ijst%20BS%2026%27.doc > > > > >> > > > > >> To learn more about file sharing for your group, please > visit: > > > > >> http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files > > > > >> > > > > >> Regards, > > > > >> > > > > >> a_admi > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > > > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > > > > > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > | 10018|10001|2006-01-03 21:22:44|tom|Re: Skeg Aperture|Hello Ted I like the idea of running tiller through the transom, give it that custom look. Im not sure if I could do it on the 26, more than likely it would come through about knee level. Tom ----- Original Message ----- From: "edward_stoneuk" To: Sent: Monday, January 02, 2006 2:13 AM Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Skeg Aperture > > Happy New year Tom and everyone. > > Thanks for your post. Brent has written about skeg and rudder design > in his book. I am following that more or less as I don't have strong > views or knowledge about it one way or the other. That said I intend > shortening the rudder so that the tiller goes through the transom > instead of over it. I saw the idea on Dudley Dix's Hout Bay 33 and > thought that it looked good and that it will save a bit of weight. > www.dixdesign.com/hb33.htm. > Regards, > Ted > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > | 10019|9968|2006-01-03 22:41:21|tom|Re: Metric Material List for Jasmina BS 26'|Hello Admi Now that you have youre plans the fun begins. If you have it finished and sailing by next summer that will be an amazing feat, Im figuring a year or two on mine but Im not in any hurry eather. Too bad were an ocean apart, youre building the twin keel and Im going single keel, would be nice to sail the two side by side and see if theres any differance. I dont have any scetches yet on the interior, just an idea of what I want and Im not going to use a pilot house. You can use the 25' tape measure just measure the 1"=1'0" scale in US then pull the tape out to that measurment and you will have the metric equivalent with no fancy math conversions and less apt to make any errors. Take care Tom ----- Original Message ----- From: "a_admi" To: Sent: Tuesday, January 03, 2006 4:48 PM Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Metric Material List for Jasmina BS 26' >I bought a 25' US ruler with both metric and inches in Annapolis . > > That will not be of much use on the 1" = 1'0" scale . > > May I ask the same question as Ted , where the is the > CC [ centre de carene ] Boyancy Center I presume on the 26'? > > I found an interesting post from Alex in the archives : >> Winston Bushnell, who sailed his 26 foot Swain hull through the NW > Passage, installed a centreboard. It would likely have been a poor > idea to have twin keels on a vessel which could get frozen in ice and > be crushed! He was able to skid the boat out of the water on a big > sheet of steel (or something like that) for a winter-over in one of > the villages up north. I think arctic travel would be the only place > where twin keels might occasionally present a liability! > > I plan to sail in the tropics , the rivermouth where the boat > will be moored is full of moving sandbanks , so the minimum > draft seems an attractive option to look into . > > I certainly want a collapsable wooden mast in a tabernacle , > cause good cheap wood it is available localy . > Not sure yet to go for a bermudian or a gaff. > > Admi > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "brentswain38" > wrote: >> >> You could buy a Canadian tape measure which is both metric and > Inches. >> Brent >> >> --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "a_admi" wrote: >> > >> > Hi Tom , Aaron and Ted . >> > Brent Swain's book and plans for the 26' came in today ! >> > >> > The book and plans survived the long transatlantic voyage >> > extreemly well , I will have to translate all to metric now. >> > >> > I made a Jasmina BS 26' photoalbum near Tom's BS 26' album, >> > where I hope to post some sketches and ideas soon. >> > Cause I would like to have the boat sailing next summer . >> > >> > I wonder if you made some accomodation sketches , cause >> > I would love to see them as much as I like to see more >> > photos you may have . >> > >> > Jasmina was the name my family and me choose over the >> > New Year period , hoping that name will bring us good luck. >> > http://jasmin-tabatabai.com/english/ >> > >> > Happy New Year to All >> > Admi >> > ------------------------------------------ >> > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "a_admi" wrote: >> > > >> > > Thanks Tom , much appreciated . >> > > Admi >> > > >> > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "tom" wrote: >> > > > >> > > > Hello >> > > > I just miked the 12 gage Im useing for the decking and its > 2.5 >> > mm, >> > > its a >> > > > little under 1/8". 1/8" is 3.19 mm and the 3/16" is 4.8 mm, >> > > probably >> > > > considerd 5 mm >> > > > Tom >> > > > ----- Original Message ----- >> > > > From: "a_admi" >> > > > To: >> > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2005 12:01 PM >> > > > Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Metric Material List for the 26' > BS >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > Sorry All , the direct Link I posted is not working , >> > > > > it is working in origamiboats2 . >> > > > > The file is there . >> > > > > I have a technical question for the Canadians . >> > > > > >> > > > > Converting the non metric to metric brought some questions: >> > > > > >> > > > > How thick is a 1/8th plate in mm ? o,3175 cm on my >> calculator . >> > > > > >> > > > > I received Brent Swain's confirmation by email faster >> > > > > than the Canada Post / Postes Canada from Royston >> > > > > where I find a the post stamp in Eglish and French :-) >> > > > > >> > > > > 3mm is a standard EU measurement . >> > > > > I realy wonder how many millimeters the 1/8th plate is . >> > > > > >> > > > > anybody with a metric ruller to read it out ?? >> > > > > >> > > > > Thanks in advance for any advise or directions . >> > > > > >> > > > > The same question comes for the 3/16th where I have > 0,47625cm >> > > > > wich I turned into 0,5cm or 5mm a standard measurement over >> > here. >> > > > > >> > > > > Thanks in advance . >> > > > > >> > > > > Best Season's Greetings for All. >> > > > > >> > > > > Admi >> > > > > >> > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "a_admi" >> > wrote: >> > > > >> >> > > > >> From: origamiboats2@yahoogroups.com >> > > > >> Date: Tue Dec 27, 2005 8:37 pm >> > > > >> Subject: New file uploaded to origamiboats2 >> > > > >> origamiboats2@yahoogroups.com >> > > > >> Send Email >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> Hello, >> > > > >> >> > > > >> This email message is a notification to let you know that >> > > > >> a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the >> origamiboats2 >> > > > >> group. >> > > > >> >> > > > >> File : / 26' BS/Materiaallijst BS 26'.doc >> > > > >> Uploaded by : a_admi >> > > > >> Description : Metric material list >> > > > >> >> > > > >> You can access this file at the URL: >> > > > >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats2/files/%20%2026% >> 27% >> > 20% >> > > > >> 20BS/Materiaall\ >> > > > >> ijst%20BS%2026%27.doc >> > > > >> >> > > > >> To learn more about file sharing for your group, please >> visit: >> > > > >> http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files >> > > > >> >> > > > >> Regards, >> > > > >> >> > > > >> a_admi >> > > > >> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > To Post a message, send it to: > origamiboats@yahoogroups.com >> > > > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: >> > > > > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com >> > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > >> > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > | 10020|10020|2006-01-04 02:38:13|liaa1970 1970|join in #1 in web portal FREE !!!!!!!!!! http://www.ne|join in #1 in web portal FREE !!!!!!!!!! http://www.net4jobs.com Send instant messages to your online friends http://in.messenger.yahoo.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]| 10021|10001|2006-01-04 04:17:57|edward_stoneuk|Re: Skeg Aperture|Tom, I will put a crank in the tiller to bring it up to the right height . I have sailed on a boat with a cutaway transom and a cranked tiller. The cutaway transom was good in getting access to the dinghy and for swimming, but it was a bit disconcerting to sit in the cockpit and see the sea so close. A friend of mine was in the Navy and spoke of the danger, when off watch, of resting on the rail, smoking and gazing out to sea. There was an urge to jump into the great infinity. Regards, Ted| 10022|9979|2006-01-04 06:35:59|ed_lithgow|Re: NEW TriKeeler - Triakel|Hi all. How about this for an off-the-cuff rationale for these inwardly - canted bilge keels? (though admittedly a vague, handwaving one. I don't know Dutch though so have no idea if this corresponds at all to the explanation offered on the site). In extreme conditions with big beam seas,(perhaps after a broach) the propensity for "tripping over" the downslope/leeward keel will be reduced, since its less effective, and will become still less effective as the vessel heels, arguably the reverse of the situation with a conventional bilge-keeler. Similarly, the vessel may tend to "hook in" with the upslope/windward keel, preventing a slide down the wave face. At high degrees of heel (say 90 degrees) the windward keel wont be sticking up so much and will be less likely to catch a breaking wave and roll the vessel. This is an extension of a (controversial and hypothetical, but to me fairly convincing) description of bilge keeler weaknesses in extreme conditions which appeared in this forum a while ago. There seems no obvious reason why the bow-fin in this design should necessarily be associated with these "ingrowing-bilge-keels". Presumably you could design the latter to be installed on their own. Regards, Ed Lithgow --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "brentswain38" wrote: > > We have found very little diference in performance between a single > keeler and a twin keeler. Any boats that I've heard of with three > keels have been slower than a government refund. Too much interaction > between the three. > Brent > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Gerd" wrote: > > > > can't say I get it either... most of the windward keel would lift > out > > when heeling and is anyway covered by the hull and in the water > > already siturbed by the leeward keel... the leeweard keel maybe > > supposed to provide lift / righting moment as well? I really can't > see > > the point. > > > > What I would not want to go to sea with for sure is this deep 3rd > keel > > at the the forefoot, seems to me that that would give you a perfect > > croche-pied to stumble or even summersault the boat over when going > > down big seas in chaotic conditions > > > > Gerd > > The Yago Project at http://www.justmueller.com/boats/ > > > | 10023|9968|2006-01-04 12:37:46|edward_stoneuk|Re: Metric Material List for Jasmina BS 26' Accomodation|Admi, A good source of pictures of interiors is the site that Gyles Llewellyn flagged up; www.yachtsnet.co.uk/archives. There are lots of older boats listed many with photos of their interiors. It shows how difficult it is to draw up an interior given the fact that the area is small, nothing is straight and one has to design things that a body can be comfortable (just) in but that would be unacceptable on dry land. As we are building we are using wood from pallets to mock up ideas for the interior. This week we did the heads and made sure we had headroom, that we could brace ourselves with our feet as the boat heeled. I favour the toilet bowl to be on the diagonal for that. We sited the wash basin so that we could vomit into it from the seating position, that we had room to take our oilies off, that there was enough room to open the door and gave thought to access to the diesel and water tanks underneath. We worked out the area for an all over wash position as well. Regards, Ted| 10024|9968|2006-01-04 15:22:51|a_admi|Re: Metric Material List for Jasmina BS 26'|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "tom" wrote: > > Hello Admi > Now that you have youre plans the fun begins. If you have it finished and > sailing by next summer that will be an amazing feat, Im figuring a year or > two on mine but Im not in any hurry eather. > Too bad were an ocean apart, youre building the twin keel and Im going > single keel, would be nice to sail the two side by side and see if theres > any differance. Hi Tom , I will probably not build the twin keel or the single keel!! I plan to sail in the tropics , the rivermouth where the boat will be moored is full of moving sandbanks , so the minimum draft seems an attractive option to look into , so I will most probably go for the minumum draft solution , Winston Bushnell's centerboard or another alternative :-) > I dont have any scetches yet on the interior, just an idea of what I want > and Im not going to use a pilot house. > You can use the 25' tape measure just measure the 1"=1'0" scale in US then > pull the tape out to that measurment and you will have the metric equivalent > with no fancy math conversions and less apt to make any errors. > Take care > Tom I had the drawings digitalised today , cost about $ 20 . To be frank , I had no other options . Old Ben is a member in my Gent Sailing Club , and make me run. He promised to come with some serious options . The boat will be build in Africa , where weekly many European Tourists arrive to escape winter . Import duties on pleasure boats are a 100% there , so if the boat is pretty and sails well or better than the average boat , we hope to have build many. Only time will show. The steel has allready been ordered and I am considering your previous advise and to have a model build with different deckhouse options . The model together with Alex's fine video , that gives a real insight in Brent Swain's simple efficient building tricks , better than to many words , will show the way for a fast build by good professional welders and woodworkers. Just hoping for the best looking and fastest BS'26 Thanks for the ' take care ' , I will do my best. I realy hope Aaron reads this post to , cause we have not heard much of him lately , I hope he is fine. Keep us posted Tom , do not forget the pics !! Take care :-) Admi > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "a_admi" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, January 03, 2006 4:48 PM > Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Metric Material List for Jasmina BS 26' > > > >I bought a 25' US ruler with both metric and inches in Annapolis . > > > > That will not be of much use on the 1" = 1'0" scale . > > > > May I ask the same question as Ted , where the is the > > CC [ centre de carene ] Boyancy Center I presume on the 26'? > > > > I found an interesting post from Alex in the archives : > >> Winston Bushnell, who sailed his 26 foot Swain hull through the NW > > Passage, installed a centreboard. It would likely have been a poor > > idea to have twin keels on a vessel which could get frozen in ice and > > be crushed! He was able to skid the boat out of the water on a big > > sheet of steel (or something like that) for a winter-over in one of > > the villages up north. I think arctic travel would be the only place > > where twin keels might occasionally present a liability! > > > > I plan to sail in the tropics , the rivermouth where the boat > > will be moored is full of moving sandbanks , so the minimum > > draft seems an attractive option to look into . > > > > I certainly want a collapsable wooden mast in a tabernacle , > > cause good cheap wood it is available localy . > > Not sure yet to go for a bermudian or a gaff. > > > > Admi > > > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "brentswain38" > > wrote: > >> > >> You could buy a Canadian tape measure which is both metric and > > Inches. > >> Brent > >> > >> --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "a_admi" wrote: > >> > > >> > Hi Tom , Aaron and Ted . > >> > Brent Swain's book and plans for the 26' came in today ! > >> > > >> > The book and plans survived the long transatlantic voyage > >> > extreemly well , I will have to translate all to metric now. > >> > > >> > I made a Jasmina BS 26' photoalbum near Tom's BS 26' album, > >> > where I hope to post some sketches and ideas soon. > >> > Cause I would like to have the boat sailing next summer . > >> > > >> > I wonder if you made some accomodation sketches , cause > >> > I would love to see them as much as I like to see more > >> > photos you may have . > >> > > >> > Jasmina was the name my family and me choose over the > >> > New Year period , hoping that name will bring us good luck. > >> > http://jasmin-tabatabai.com/english/ > >> > > >> > Happy New Year to All > >> > Admi > >> > ------------------------------------------ > >> > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "a_admi" wrote: > >> > > > >> > > Thanks Tom , much appreciated . > >> > > Admi > >> > > > >> > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "tom" wrote: > >> > > > > >> > > > Hello > >> > > > I just miked the 12 gage Im useing for the decking and its > > 2.5 > >> > mm, > >> > > its a > >> > > > little under 1/8". 1/8" is 3.19 mm and the 3/16" is 4.8 mm, > >> > > probably > >> > > > considerd 5 mm > >> > > > Tom > >> > > > ----- Original Message ----- > >> > > > From: "a_admi" > >> > > > To: > >> > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2005 12:01 PM > >> > > > Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Metric Material List for the 26' > > BS > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > Sorry All , the direct Link I posted is not working , > >> > > > > it is working in origamiboats2 . > >> > > > > The file is there . > >> > > > > I have a technical question for the Canadians . > >> > > > > > >> > > > > Converting the non metric to metric brought some questions: > >> > > > > > >> > > > > How thick is a 1/8th plate in mm ? o,3175 cm on my > >> calculator . > >> > > > > > >> > > > > I received Brent Swain's confirmation by email faster > >> > > > > than the Canada Post / Postes Canada from Royston > >> > > > > where I find a the post stamp in Eglish and French :-) > >> > > > > > >> > > > > 3mm is a standard EU measurement . > >> > > > > I realy wonder how many millimeters the 1/8th plate is . > >> > > > > > >> > > > > anybody with a metric ruller to read it out ?? > >> > > > > > >> > > > > Thanks in advance for any advise or directions . > >> > > > > > >> > > > > The same question comes for the 3/16th where I have > > 0,47625cm > >> > > > > wich I turned into 0,5cm or 5mm a standard measurement over > >> > here. > >> > > > > > >> > > > > Thanks in advance . > >> > > > > > >> > > > > Best Season's Greetings for All. > >> > > > > > >> > > > > Admi > >> > > > > > >> > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "a_admi" > >> > wrote: > >> > > > >> > >> > > > >> From: origamiboats2@yahoogroups.com > >> > > > >> Date: Tue Dec 27, 2005 8:37 pm > >> > > > >> Subject: New file uploaded to origamiboats2 > >> > > > >> origamiboats2@yahoogroups.com > >> > > > >> Send Email > >> > > > >> > >> > > > >> > >> > > > >> Hello, > >> > > > >> > >> > > > >> This email message is a notification to let you know that > >> > > > >> a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the > >> origamiboats2 > >> > > > >> group. > >> > > > >> > >> > > > >> File : / 26' BS/Materiaallijst BS 26'.doc > >> > > > >> Uploaded by : a_admi > >> > > > >> Description : Metric material list > >> > > > >> > >> > > > >> You can access this file at the URL: > >> > > > >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats2/files/%20% 2026% > >> 27% > >> > 20% > >> > > > >> 20BS/Materiaall\ > >> > > > >> ijst%20BS%2026%27.doc > >> > > > >> > >> > > > >> To learn more about file sharing for your group, please > >> visit: > >> > > > >> http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files > >> > > > >> > >> > > > >> Regards, > >> > > > >> > >> > > > >> a_admi > >> > > > >> > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > To Post a message, send it to: > > origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > >> > > > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > >> > > > > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > >> > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > | 10025|9968|2006-01-04 15:48:49|a_admi|Re: Metric Material List for Jasmina BS 26' Accomodation|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "edward_stoneuk" wrote: > > Admi, > > A good source of pictures of interiors is the site that Gyles Llewellyn > flagged up; www.yachtsnet.co.uk/archives. There are lots of older > boats listed many with photos of their interiors. It shows how > difficult it is to draw up an interior given the fact that the area is > small, nothing is straight and one has to design things that a body > can be comfortable (just) in but that would be unacceptable on dry > land. As we are building we are using wood from pallets to mock up > ideas for the interior. This week we did the heads and made sure we > had headroom, that we could brace ourselves with our feet as the boat > heeled. I favour the toilet bowl to be on the diagonal for that. We > sited the wash basin so that we could vomit into it from the seating > position, that we had room to take our oilies off, that there was > enough room to open the door and gave thought to access to the diesel > and water tanks underneath. We worked out the area for an all over > wash position as well. > > Regards, > Ted > Hi Ted , thanks for the fine Link , many great interior pics in there . I know it is not easy to design and build a real usable sailor's interior , good at sea and also when moored . The digitalised Drawings are already in good hands . Old Ben promissed to come up with somehting........ good looking and faster than boats up to 25% longer ! Only real test results will show. I hope to join for a drink in the Paradise near home , the UK south coast is well within our usual sailing range. Regards and succes with your building , I see the pics of you and your brave partner !! Admi| 10026|10026|2006-01-04 23:10:24|Puck III|Convert me|A site for believers and non-believers alike : http://www.convert-me.com/en/ leaving all Options open :-) Old Ben| 10027|10026|2006-01-05 03:08:08|Gerd|Re: Convert me|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III" wrote: > > A site for believers and non-believers alike : > http://www.convert-me.com/en/ > > leaving all Options open :-) > > Old Ben > ...and if you would like a site that does NOT pop up advertisements and other BS all over your monitor, just go to http://allconversions.com/ ;-) Gerd| 10028|10026|2006-01-05 06:38:58|Puck III|Re: Convert me|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Gerd" wrote: > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III" wrote: > > > > A site for believers and non-believers alike : > > http://www.convert-me.com/en/ > > > > leaving all Options open :-) > > > > Old Ben > > > ...and if you would like a site that does NOT pop up advertisements > and other BS all over your monitor, just go to > http://allconversions.com/ > > ;-) > > Gerd > Happy New Year Gerd , please find my " best wishes pic " for the real boating lover in : http://www.buildingyourboat.com/tiki-browse_image.php?imageId=59 Will I convert you to the good life philosophy ? I sure hope the pic is helpfull :-) I keep an open mind so http://allconversions.com/ sounds great :-) Cheers Old Ben| 10029|10026|2006-01-05 08:43:54|sae140|Re: Convert me|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Gerd" wrote: > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III" wrote: > > > > A site for believers and non-believers alike : > > http://www.convert-me.com/en/ > > > > leaving all Options open :-) > > > > Old Ben > > > ...and if you would like a site that does NOT pop up advertisements > and other BS all over your monitor, just go to > http://allconversions.com/ > > ;-) > > Gerd > ... and if you'd like a copy on your desktop, instead of on a website - checkout: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats2/files/convert.zip So - ever heard of a YottaByte or a ZettaByte ? Tried to upload it to Origamiboats/files/maths & calculations but couldn't get access. Colin| 10030|10026|2006-01-05 09:07:44|Puck III|Re: Convert me|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "sae140" wrote: > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Gerd" wrote: > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III" > wrote: > > > > > > A site for believers and non-believers alike : > > > http://www.convert-me.com/en/ > > > > > > leaving all Options open :-) > > > > > > Old Ben > > > > > ...and if you would like a site that does NOT pop up advertisements > > and other BS all over your monitor, just go to > > http://allconversions.com/ > > > > ;-) > > > > Gerd > > > > ... and if you'd like a copy on your desktop, instead of on a > website - checkout: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats2/files/convert.zip > > So - ever heard of a YottaByte or a ZettaByte ? > > Tried to upload it to Origamiboats/files/maths & calculations > but couldn't get access. > > Colin > Thanks Colin , for helping to convert people to " Origamism " in metric or non-metric , weither they drive on the left or on the right of the road , weither they use stones , or kilogrammes :-) Hot is Hot , in Fahrenheit or Celsius . Origami is Hot and Cooooool at the same time :-) Old Ben| 10031|10031|2006-01-05 17:51:13|bert andjan|Admi's BS 26...|ADmi wrote: "Hi Tom , I will probably not build the twin keel or the single keel!! I plan to sail in the tropics , the rivermouth where the boat will be moored is full of moving sandbanks , so the minimum draft seems an attractive option to look into , so I will most probably go for the minumum draft solution , Winston Bushnell's centerboard or another alternative" Admi, I'm not sure what you mean by "Winston Bushnell's centerboard"...are you thinking of building a BS26 with neither the twins or single keel, but rather a centerboard? Has this been done? I didn't know the boat was configured with a centerboard. Thanks, just a big confused here....(as usual ;o)...) Bert in Saginaw, Mi __________________________________________ Yahoo! DSL – Something to write home about. Just $16.99/mo. or less. dsl.yahoo.com| 10032|10031|2006-01-06 05:48:32|Gerd|Re: Admi's BS 26...|Would not do that without Brent's participation in the modification - apart from changing the lateral plan and underwater configuration, replacing a fixed keel with a centerboard or even a lift keel would require a significant increase of ballast. So that would be a different boat alltogether... Gerd The Yago Project at http://www.justmueller.com/boats/ --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, bert andjan wrote: > > ADmi wrote: "Hi Tom , I will probably not build the > twin keel or the single keel!! > > I plan to sail in the tropics , the rivermouth where > the boat > will be moored is full of moving sandbanks , so the > minimum > draft seems an attractive option to look into , so I > will > most probably go for the minumum draft solution , > Winston Bushnell's centerboard or another alternative" > > > Admi, I'm not sure what you mean by "Winston > Bushnell's centerboard"...are you thinking of building > a BS26 with neither the twins or single keel, but > rather a centerboard? Has this been done? I didn't > know the boat was configured with a centerboard. > > Thanks, just a big confused here....(as usual ;o)...) > > Bert in Saginaw, Mi > > > > __________________________________________ > Yahoo! DSL – Something to write home about. > Just $16.99/mo. or less. > dsl.yahoo.com > | 10033|10031|2006-01-06 06:08:02|a_admi|Re: Admi's Jasmina BS 26...|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, bert andjan wrote: > > ADmi wrote: "Hi Tom , I will probably not build the > twin keel or the single keel!! > > I plan to sail in the tropics , the rivermouth where > the boat > will be moored is full of moving sandbanks , so the > minimum > draft seems an attractive option to look into , so I > will > most probably go for the minumum draft solution , > Winston Bushnell's centerboard or another alternative" > > > Admi, I'm not sure what you mean by "Winston > Bushnell's centerboard"...are you thinking of building > a BS26 with neither the twins or single keel, but > rather a centerboard? Has this been done? I didn't > know the boat was configured with a centerboard. > > Thanks, just a big confused here....(as usual ;o)...) > > Bert in Saginaw, Mi ----------------------------- Hi Bert , I found the centerboard option in an interesting post from Alex in the archives : > Winston Bushnell, who sailed his 26 foot Swain hull through the NW Passage, installed a centreboard. It would likely have been a poor idea to have twin keels on a vessel which could get frozen in ice and be crushed! He was able to skid the boat out of the water on a big sheet of steel (or something like that) for a winter-over in one of the villages up north. I think arctic travel would be the only place where twin keels might occasionally present a liability! "Origamiboats Searchable Archive" can be found in Links. Complete archive of this mailing list can be searched on-line or donwloaded in its entirety. Intelligent search engine and NO ADVERTISEMENTS. http://www.crazyface.net/origamiboats/index.html khooper_fboats I am just a sailor , I only trust the designer and or an architect with a proven record to advise me on the best solutions for me. Centerboard , sideboards , or a combination of twinkeels and sideboards [ swinging or sliding up ]I leave all options open. If I want to sell that boat to a EU customer , the boat must be build to EU regulations ; for category offshore ,the boat must undergo real life stability tests on flat water as in : http://ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats2/photos/view/9d0c?b=3 I insist this is only relevant for EU members , on the other hand I am convinced it is nice to know , for any other builder interested in building a BS 26' that the boat presents all the security factors needed for offshore use . Some boats presented by other members will never obtain EU certification , wish is a certification ,anybody wanting to build a boat or buy a design to build a boat and have it EU certified for offshore use , should ask for !! before spending any time and precious money . A personal question if I may ? Bert and Jan ? Any Dutch ancestors ? Regards Admi| 10034|10031|2006-01-06 07:05:28|a_admi|Re: Admi's BS 26...|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Gerd" wrote: > > Would not do that without Brent's participation in the modification - > apart from changing the lateral plan and underwater configuration, > replacing a fixed keel with a centerboard or even a lift keel would > require a significant increase of ballast. So that would be a > different boat alltogether... > > Gerd > The Yago Project at http://www.justmueller.com/boats/ ------------------------------------------------------------ Please Mister Gerd , stop spoiling my project !!! I sure will present all options I intend to build on my boat to the Designer Mr Brent Swain . If I am lucky to sell some , I will respectfully pay all royalties due , cause we allways do honest business. Have you anything to do with the BS 26'? Probably not: SO Your advise and opinion about the boat I intend to build is TOTALY IRRELEVANT to me . What are you trying to obtain with your post ? Probably just some attention for your website , where I see one [1] boat being build since a long long long time , not real publicity for Origami as a fast building method . Please stop your negative attitude by posting warnings !! Will any of the boats you intend to build ever have a regular EU certification ??? I dought :-) If not , I suggest you work on it , or hire a professional to do the design for you :-) Admi The Jasmina Project - a BS 26' (no advise , just sound boats:-)| 10035|10031|2006-01-06 07:41:27|cirejay|Re: Admi's BS 26...|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "a_admi" wrote: > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Gerd" wrote: > > > > Would not do that without Brent's participation in the > modification - > > apart from changing the lateral plan and underwater configuration, > > replacing a fixed keel with a centerboard or even a lift keel would > > require a significant increase of ballast. So that would be a > > different boat alltogether... > > > > Gerd > > The Yago Project at http://www.justmueller.com/boats/ > ------------------------------------------------------------ > Please Mister Gerd , stop spoiling my project !!! > > I sure will present all options I intend to build > on my boat to the Designer Mr Brent Swain . > If I am lucky to sell some , I will respectfully > pay all royalties due , cause we allways do honest > business. > > Have you anything to do with the BS 26'? Probably not: SO > > Your advise and opinion about the boat I intend > to build is TOTALY IRRELEVANT to me . > > What are you trying to obtain with your post ? > Probably just some attention for your website , > where I see one [1] boat being build since > a long long long time , not real publicity for > Origami as a fast building method . > Please stop your negative attitude by posting warnings !! > > Will any of the boats you intend to build ever > have a regular EU certification ??? I dought :-) > If not , I suggest you work on it , or hire a > professional to do the design for you :-) > > Admi > The Jasmina Project - a BS 26' (no advise , just sound boats:-) Admi, I'm not sure where you are going with this but tearing a new hole in the bottom (boat, of course) of someone who is trying to be helpful probably won't get you there. Putting ":-)" after a flame doesn't make it ok. eric S/V Nebaras| 10036|10031|2006-01-06 09:00:29|edward_stoneuk|Re: Admi's BS 26...|Admi, Gerd is not trying to spoil your project. The best advice is sometimes that which we do not want to hear. It is interesting about the centreboard in Winston Bushnell's Dove III. I can imagine that bilge keels would be a problem in ice. My understanding is that the concern with small steel boats, and that includes the 36' is that the weight of the construction material (steel) is usually proportionally much higher than other build materials. Therefore to maintain a reasonable ballast ratio proportionally more ballast is needed. If for whatever reason one cannot put ballast low down in a keel then the turning moment of that ballast is lessened and even more ballast is needed. The photos of Dove show a fairly high superstructure but the boat is not that low in the water so one might assume that there is not that much ballast and wonder what the angle of vanishing stability is. Sometimes I think about the EU Recreational Craft Directive and whether I should go for it. As the law stands now one can self build without compliance to the regs, provided that one does not sell the boat for five years. I know of one chap who built a one off. It cost him £4,000 to get it Category A certified. I am very interested in any information you may have in EU certification. Regards, Ted| 10037|10031|2006-01-06 09:08:33|a_admi|Re: Admi's BS 26...|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "cirejay" wrote: > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "a_admi" wrote: > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Gerd" wrote: > > > > > > Would not do that without Brent's participation in the > > modification - > > > apart from changing the lateral plan and underwater > configuration, > > > replacing a fixed keel with a centerboard or even a lift keel > would > > > require a significant increase of ballast. So that would be a > > > different boat alltogether... > > > > > > Gerd > > > The Yago Project at http://www.justmueller.com/boats/ > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > Please Mister Gerd , stop spoiling my project !!! > > > > I sure will present all options I intend to build > > on my boat to the Designer Mr Brent Swain . > > If I am lucky to sell some , I will respectfully > > pay all royalties due , cause we allways do honest > > business. > > > > Have you anything to do with the BS 26'? Probably not: SO > > > > Your advise and opinion about the boat I intend > > to build is TOTALY IRRELEVANT to me . > > > > What are you trying to obtain with your post ? > > Probably just some attention for your website , > > where I see one [1] boat being build since > > a long long long time , not real publicity for > > Origami as a fast building method . > > Please stop your negative attitude by posting warnings !! > > > > Will any of the boats you intend to build ever > > have a regular EU certification ??? I dought :-) > > If not , I suggest you work on it , or hire a > > professional to do the design for you :-) > > > > Admi > > The Jasmina Project - a BS 26' (no advise , just sound boats:-) > > > Admi, > I'm not sure where you are going with this but tearing a new hole in > the bottom (boat, of course) of someone who is trying to be helpful > probably won't get you there. Putting ":-)" after a flame doesn't > make it ok. > > eric S/V Nebaras ----------------------------------------------- Hi Eric , hi All , I am really sorry I lost my temper . I was just trying to bring the maximum POSTITIVE imput for the BS 26' , because I want a fine boat. I was stupid to react at all to Gerd's post , this will not happen again , even if he is the last person on earth I would ask advise to . I am new to the Groups , I understand only to well everybody pushes for his own ideas , flaming is not going to help , on the contrary . Spam is best ignored really , not much one can do about it. Sorry again !! Admi| 10038|10038|2006-01-06 10:20:31|ziggy.millam3173@yashyi.com|Find your perfect partner. I did...|I know a couple of friends already who have met a few nice honey’s off of this kind of stuff (here is the site they use: http://www.hookupbaronline.info/vkan , but what do you think? I think it is pretty cool from what I saw at my friend’s house, and am thinking of signing up later today. Basically it's a regular personalssite, but with an instant message and Webcam system built in. Basically you join their chat-room on their site it gives you a link to those people online in the chat-room, their location, their picture, etc and at one click you can start chatting to them over Webcam (even if you don't have one). Pretty nifty stuff I think!| 10039|10031|2006-01-06 11:35:02|a_admi|Re: Admi's BS 26...|Hi Ted ,I was warned to stay away from the Groups . An old Dutch saying is : - voor een vrouw en een kip is geen plaats op een ship - - for a woman and a chicken , no room on a ship - I was going to be eaten alive , just see the previous porn dating link...... Could be the warning was right . All I know about UK registration is that a big row was in the UK sailing magazines , a Britt that bought a well know glassfiber transworld cruising sail boat in Canada and sailed that boat half around the world , was issued only a riverlicense . I will ask in the club in what UK magazines and when it was reported and if I find more info , I will lett you know . The BS 26' drawings are allready worked on , in the best architectural company I hired in Gent , with the latest nautical designprograms at their disposal. They have a program to adapt the design and the scantlings , according to the EU regulations. I hope to have a fine presentation pdf real soon. Brent Swain's design is made by hand and extreemly well made . Only the real data , pics about the stability-test and real testresults will show if I made the right decision. Personaly I have no other option than have some real professionals do their job . I regret my flaming , on the other hand I was reassured that what I posted are simple facts, not speculations of any sort . Dont worry Ted , I will do fine , thanks for your concern. Admi --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "edward_stoneuk" wrote: > > Admi, > Gerd is not trying to spoil your project. The best advice is > sometimes that which we do not want to hear. It is interesting about > the centreboard in Winston Bushnell's Dove III. I can imagine that > bilge keels would be a problem in ice. My understanding is that the > concern with small steel boats, and that includes the 36' is that > the weight of the construction material (steel) is usually > proportionally much higher than other build materials. Therefore to > maintain a reasonable ballast ratio proportionally more ballast is > needed. If for whatever reason one cannot put ballast low down in a > keel then the turning moment of that ballast is lessened and even > more ballast is needed. The photos of Dove show a fairly high > superstructure but the boat is not that low in the water so one > might assume that there is not that much ballast and wonder what the > angle of vanishing stability is. Sometimes I think about the EU > Recreational Craft Directive and whether I should go for it. As the > law stands now one can self build without compliance to the regs, > provided that one does not sell the boat for five years. I know of > one chap who built a one off. It cost him £4,000 to get it Category > A certified. I am very interested in any information you may have > in EU certification. > Regards, > Ted > | 10040|10031|2006-01-06 12:05:17|tom|Re: Admi's BS 26...|Hello Admi If I recall Dove III was changed a lot from the original 26 its larger 28'-29' ft with around a 9' beam, If anyome knows for sure let us know? I am curious on what you come up with retractable keel or keels. The hull is a little over 2' ft of draft, twin keels around 3' ft of draft with the skeg being the same draft are you thinking of makeing a shorter skeg and rudder? On a diferent note Im not sure what Gerd did to piss you off but I welcome his input. He is very helpfull and he's never said anything negative about the 26 or you! Keep us posted on youre progress Tom| 10041|10041|2006-01-06 12:18:14|Puck III|When Workers Get Bored .|http://www.flurl.com/uploaded/When_Workers_Get_Bored_10647.html a bit off Topic , all to easy to ease the tension with a smile :-) Old Ben| 10042|10031|2006-01-06 13:05:22|Gerd|Re: Admi's Jasmina BS 26...|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "a_admi" > Some boats presented by other members will never > obtain EU certification , wish is a certification ,anybody > wanting to build a boat or buy a design to build a boat > and have it EU certified for offshore use , should ask for !! > before spending any time and precious money . Admi, the EU certification is only required if the boat is sold as a professionally produced craft, or if it is sold as an amateur boat newer than 5 years. An Amateur does not need the certif if it is built for own use, and he can sell the boat without EU certif after 5 years. One of the ways to handle that is to register the boat during construction, as soon as there is anough to take a picture of it looking like a boat ;-) Gerd The Yago Project at http://www.justmueller.com/boats/| 10043|10031|2006-01-06 13:16:38|Gerd|Re: Admi's BS 26...|> Hi Eric , hi All , I am really sorry I lost my temper . > I was just trying to bring the maximum POSTITIVE imput > for the BS 26' , because I want a fine boat. > I was stupid to react at all to Gerd's post , > this will not happen again , even if he is the > last person on earth I would ask advise to . > > I am new to the Groups , I understand only to well > everybody pushes for his own ideas , flaming is > not going to help , on the contrary . Admi, not only have I been doing the same for a long time here ("maximum POSITIVE input"), I am also one of the more active defenders of a) centerboards in general and b)origami building in particular and am always trying to help to promote Brents Ideas AND BOATS in spite of some minor differences of opinion, which you would have been able to note on my website if you would spent a just little moment there. I really and simply tried to be helpful. I find it a pity that I am the last person you will ask advice from, but trust me: you will get it anyway. Drop your weapons and relax, ok? ;-) Gerd The Yago Project at http://www.justmueller.com/boats/| 10044|10031|2006-01-06 13:27:09|Michael Casling|Re: Admi's BS 26...|In actual fact the boat that Gerd is working on was very well thought out. The twin boards are very insightful. He has had to deal with the internal ballast thing, and as he has been a promoter of the Origami process. He should be the last person to avoid. We all have different ideas. Mine differ from Gerds, but that does not really mean anything. Just a different approach is all. I can look at his boat and see the upside of it. I hope he will be sailing soon. For me if I was building, it would likely be something in wood and plastic, and look like a Didi 34. I currently own a solid plastic boat that will last longer than me. Michael ----- Original Message ----- From: Gerd To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, January 06, 2006 10:15 AM Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Admi's BS 26... > Hi Eric , hi All , I am really sorry I lost my temper . > I was just trying to bring the maximum POSTITIVE imput > for the BS 26' , because I want a fine boat. > I was stupid to react at all to Gerd's post , > this will not happen again , even if he is the > last person on earth I would ask advise to . > > I am new to the Groups , I understand only to well > everybody pushes for his own ideas , flaming is > not going to help , on the contrary . Admi, not only have I been doing the same for a long time here ("maximum POSITIVE input"), I am also one of the more active defenders of a) centerboards in general and b)origami building in particular and am always trying to help to promote Brents Ideas AND BOATS in spite of some minor differences of opinion, which you would have been able to note on my website if you would spent a just little moment there. I really and simply tried to be helpful. I find it a pity that I am the last person you will ask advice from, but trust me: you will get it anyway. Drop your weapons and relax, ok? ;-) Gerd The Yago Project at http://www.justmueller.com/boats/ To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com SPONSORED LINKS British columbia canada Vancouver island Yacht ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS a.. Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web. b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 10045|9968|2006-01-06 14:42:13|brentswain38|Re: Metric Material List for Jasmina BS 26' Accomodation|A stroll thru the upcomming boat shows with a tape measure wil give you a lot og good ideas on interiors. I prefer the head facing fore and aft as that way when the boat is heeled one is not facing uphill or worse ,downhill, and trying to avoid sliding off. Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "edward_stoneuk" wrote: > > Admi, > > A good source of pictures of interiors is the site that Gyles Llewellyn > flagged up; www.yachtsnet.co.uk/archives. There are lots of older > boats listed many with photos of their interiors. It shows how > difficult it is to draw up an interior given the fact that the area is > small, nothing is straight and one has to design things that a body > can be comfortable (just) in but that would be unacceptable on dry > land. As we are building we are using wood from pallets to mock up > ideas for the interior. This week we did the heads and made sure we > had headroom, that we could brace ourselves with our feet as the boat > heeled. I favour the toilet bowl to be on the diagonal for that. We > sited the wash basin so that we could vomit into it from the seating > position, that we had room to take our oilies off, that there was > enough room to open the door and gave thought to access to the diesel > and water tanks underneath. We worked out the area for an all over > wash position as well. > > Regards, > Ted > | 10046|10031|2006-01-06 14:45:45|brentswain38|Re: Admi's BS 26...|Winston found that the centreboard banged around too much so he didn't use it much, just made a lot of leeway.Europeans ,with their vast experience with centreboards ,probably have some solutions for that problem .With the threat of extreme ice pressure, twin keels were not a reasonable option for the arctic. Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, bert andjan wrote: > > ADmi wrote: "Hi Tom , I will probably not build the > twin keel or the single keel!! > > I plan to sail in the tropics , the rivermouth where > the boat > will be moored is full of moving sandbanks , so the > minimum > draft seems an attractive option to look into , so I > will > most probably go for the minumum draft solution , > Winston Bushnell's centerboard or another alternative" > > > Admi, I'm not sure what you mean by "Winston > Bushnell's centerboard"...are you thinking of building > a BS26 with neither the twins or single keel, but > rather a centerboard? Has this been done? I didn't > know the boat was configured with a centerboard. > > Thanks, just a big confused here....(as usual ;o)...) > > Bert in Saginaw, Mi > > > > __________________________________________ > Yahoo! DSL – Something to write home about. > Just $16.99/mo. or less. > dsl.yahoo.com > | 10047|10031|2006-01-06 14:52:42|edward_stoneuk|Re: Admi's BS 26...|Hi Admi, I read about the chap that bought a Canadian boat and sailed it home to the UK. From memory it was because he was effectively importing a production boat built after the introduction of the legislation onto the EU market that he was responsible for making sure that it was certified in accordance with the Recreational Craft Directive and had a CE plate on it. Presumably because it was cheaper to do so he had it certified as a Category D boat the inland waterways category rather than category A the ocean going category. AFAIK there is nothing to stop him taking his Category D boat out into the ocean. It would be the same legislation if he had imported it into any EU country even Flanders. Regards, Ted| 10048|10031|2006-01-06 14:58:15|Alex Christie|Dove 3, centreboarder|I thought maybe Bushnell's Dove 3 had a long shallow keel of sorts , in addition to the centreboard. Someone else mentioned the high freeboard and tall pilot house as a concern for the minimal ballast arrangement; I think Bushnell kept the rib small for this reason, and didn't intend the boat to be a deepwater voyager. For most of their journey the boat was used more as a powerboat and the sails were auxiliary to that. Alex On 6-Jan-06, at 11:44 AM, brentswain38 wrote: > Winston found that the centreboard banged around too much so he > didn't use it much, just made a lot of leeway.Europeans ,with their > vast experience with centreboards ,probably have some solutions for > that problem .With the threat of extreme ice pressure, twin keels > were not a reasonable  option for the arctic. > Brent > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, bert andjan > wrote: > > > > ADmi wrote:  "Hi Tom , I will probably not build the > > twin keel or the single keel!! > > > > I plan to sail in the tropics , the rivermouth where > > the boat > > will be moored is full of moving sandbanks , so the > > minimum > > draft seems an attractive option to look into , so I > > will > > most probably go for the minumum draft solution , > > Winston Bushnell's centerboard or another alternative" > > > > > > Admi, I'm not sure what you mean by "Winston > > Bushnell's centerboard"...are you thinking of building > > a BS26 with neither the twins or single keel, but > > rather a centerboard?   Has this been done?   I didn't > > know the boat was configured with a centerboard. > > > > Thanks, just a big confused here....(as usual ;o)...) > > > > Bert in Saginaw, Mi > > > > > >             > > __________________________________________ > > Yahoo! DSL – Something to write home about. > > Just $16.99/mo. or less. > > dsl.yahoo.com > > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > ▪  Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web. >   > ▪  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >  origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com >   > ▪  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > Service. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 10049|10031|2006-01-06 15:54:37|Gerd|Re: Admi's BS 26...|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "edward_stoneuk" wrote: >... than category A the ocean going category. AFAIK there is nothing to > stop him taking his Category D boat out into the ocean. It would be > the same legislation if he had imported it into any EU country even Ted, I think you note an important point there: the EU categories and certifs aplly to the SALE and following registration of the boat, not to the USAGE. The usage of the boat is still regulated by individual countries, although that also will be over time equalized and probably aligned with the RCD. There may also be an insurance issue if a boat is used outside of it's category ... Talking about Amateur construction: A professionally built hull that is amateur finished also needs CE certification! In Germany there is Reinke, a designer with hundreds of boats built in steel and alloy (http://www.reinke-yacht.de/)More and more of his boats are actually kits, hull and deck finished, but to avoid his customers the trouble, on his website he does not clearly offer kits or "hulls for Sale" but "plans with assistance by our professional helpers"... it's a bit tongue in cheek, of course, really it's the same thing he sells, but they seem to get away with it. Most of his builders clearly do not bother to certify, rather they declare the boat early and count on keeping them a couple of years anyway. Gerdthe Yago project at http://www.justmueller.com/boats/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]| 10050|10050|2006-01-06 16:00:50|Gerd|hmmm...|... the rich text editor(Beta) that Yahoo installed in their forum is beta indeed... :-(| 10051|10050|2006-01-06 20:21:14|cirejay|Re: hmmm...|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Gerd" wrote: > > ... the rich text editor(Beta) that Yahoo installed in their forum is > beta indeed... :-( Yep, I sorta, kinda, tried it too. eric S/V Nebaras| 10052|10031|2006-01-06 20:25:30|cirejay|Re: Admi's BS 26...|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "a_admi" wrote: > Hi Eric , hi All , I am really sorry I lost my temper . > I was just trying to bring the maximum POSTITIVE imput > for the BS 26' , because I want a fine boat. > I was stupid to react at all to Gerd's post , > this will not happen again , even if he is the > last person on earth I would ask advise to . > > I am new to the Groups , I understand only to well > everybody pushes for his own ideas , flaming is > not going to help , on the contrary . > > Spam is best ignored really , not much one can do about it. > > Sorry again !! Well said and enough said. eric S/V Nebaras| 10053|10053|2006-01-06 20:52:09|a_admi|The Jasmina BS 26' Project|Allo Allo Gerd ,[like in the UK popular TV series ] --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Gerd" wrote: > I really and simply tried to be helpful. I really and simply will trye to be helpfull to you > > I find it a pity that I am the last person you will ask advice from, > but trust me: you will get it anyway. This is really self-admitted compulsive advisory behaviour ! As self-appointed advisor ,commentator and promotor of the Jasmina BS 26'you sure succeeded in having many post about the Jasmina BS 26' , thanks for the promotion. ...trust me : you succeeded in designing the most stable sideboarder when flipped , cause the Yago project boat , when flipped will stay there for a long long long time . this is why your Yago , as designed will never never never be accepted for any EU certification , any pro would conform to and confirm to you , even riverboats have to :-) that is a fact , simple and clear . > Drop your weapons and relax, ok? ;-) I am very relaxed , how relaxed are you :-) Drop defending yourself and skipping the real argument. If you are in a hole , stop digging . > Gerd > The Yago Project at http://www.justmueller.com/boats/ A woman's saying is : if you can't stand the heat , get out of my kitchen . Feel free to continue to advise whatever.... Could be you can fool some . Regards. Admi -The Jasmina BS 26'- Project ( no advise , just sound boats :-) | 10054|10053|2006-01-06 21:40:42|Wesley Cox|Re: The Jasmina BS 26' Project|I have no interest in starting a flame war and if any is directed toward me for this, I won't respond. This isn't intended as negativity toward Admi, but support for Gerd. Gerd has consistently offered eloquent, *positive*, intelligent input to this group. Gerd, obviously you've hit a nerve with this guy, knowingly or not. I, for one, encourage you to remain as active on this group as you've been in the past. The continued insults directed toward you are completely unnecessary. a_admi wrote: >Allo Allo Gerd ,[like in the UK popular TV series ] > >--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Gerd" wrote: > > > >>I really and simply tried to be helpful. >> >> > >I really and simply will trye to be helpfull to you > > >>I find it a pity that I am the last person you will ask advice >> >> >from, > > >>but trust me: you will get it anyway. >> >> > >This is really self-admitted compulsive advisory behaviour ! >As self-appointed advisor ,commentator and promotor of the >Jasmina BS 26'you sure succeeded in having many post about >the Jasmina BS 26' , thanks for the promotion. > >...trust me : you succeeded in designing the most stable >sideboarder when flipped , cause the Yago project boat , >when flipped will stay there for a long long long time . > >this is why your Yago , as designed will never never never >be accepted for any EU certification , any pro would >conform to and confirm to you , even riverboats have to :-) >that is a fact , simple and clear . > > > >>Drop your weapons and relax, ok? ;-) >> >> > >I am very relaxed , how relaxed are you :-) >Drop defending yourself and skipping the real argument. >If you are in a hole , stop digging . > > > Gerd > > >>The Yago Project at http://www.justmueller.com/boats/ >> >> > >A woman's saying is : if you can't stand the heat , >get out of my kitchen . >Feel free to continue to advise whatever.... >Could be you can fool some . > >Regards. >Admi >-The Jasmina BS 26'- Project ( no advise , just sound boats :-) > > > > > > >To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com >To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > | 10055|10053|2006-01-06 23:20:28|Puck III|Re: The Jasmina BS 26' Project|Wesley , sorry to disagree , Admi aint a guy , its a Lady :-) Eric said it well From: "cirejay" Date: Sat Jan 7, 2006 2:25 am Subject: Re: Admi's BS 26... cirejay --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "a_admi" wrote: Hi Eric , hi All , I am really sorry I lost my temper .... Well said and enough said. eric S/V Nebaras as far as I could read , she said sorry , but when Gerd posted :> > I find it a pity that I am the last person you will ask advice > from, > > but trust me: you will get it anyway. followed by many irrelevant posts I knew right away dear Gerd was gone gett an answer, cause the spirited Lady is perfectly capable of responding. Admi has her facts right . 100 % [one hundred procent] correct . Stating facts are no insults according my modest opinion. Sure we all love Gerd to continue posting , this Group would not be the same without some serious definitions :-) I warned the Lady , not to post in this macho , spirited Group , and she will probably not do so anymore before her pdf presentation file is ready. Admi in the Jasmin BS 26' Kitchen and Gerd in the Yago Kitchen , sounds a good solution :-) Admi is a smart business woman , she aint gone give anything free but could come up with something good. Let's give her the benefit of the dought , we all know Gerd's Yagoo since a long time . I posted a Joke to trye to defuse the tension , but Gerd had to post that she was gone get his advise anyway , what was he expecting ???? Applaus from the audience ? These posts disappear like smoke in the wind real soon. Lett the antagonists be silent for a while !! A modest proposal from an old salt :-) Old Ben --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "a_admi" wrote: > > Allo Allo Gerd ,[like in the UK popular TV series ] > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Gerd" wrote: > > > I really and simply tried to be helpful. > > I really and simply will trye to be helpfull to you > > > > I find it a pity that I am the last person you will ask advice > from, > > but trust me: you will get it anyway. > > This is really self-admitted compulsive advisory behaviour ! > As self-appointed advisor ,commentator and promotor of the > Jasmina BS 26'you sure succeeded in having many post about > the Jasmina BS 26' , thanks for the promotion. > > ...trust me : you succeeded in designing the most stable > sideboarder when flipped , cause the Yago project boat , > when flipped will stay there for a long long long time . > > this is why your Yago , as designed will never never never > be accepted for any EU certification , any pro would > conform to and confirm to you , even riverboats have to :-) > that is a fact , simple and clear . > > > Drop your weapons and relax, ok? ;-) > > I am very relaxed , how relaxed are you :-) > Drop defending yourself and skipping the real argument. > If you are in a hole , stop digging . > > > Gerd > > The Yago Project at http://www.justmueller.com/boats/ > > A woman's saying is : if you can't stand the heat , > get out of my kitchen . > Feel free to continue to advise whatever.... > Could be you can fool some . > > Regards. > Admi > -The Jasmina BS 26'- Project ( no advise , just sound boats :-) > | 10056|10053|2006-01-06 23:32:07|Wesley Cox|Re: The Jasmina BS 26' Project|Oops, my assumption was based on the level of testosterone in the attacks. Puck III wrote: >Wesley , sorry to disagree , Admi aint a guy , its a Lady :-) > >Eric said it well >From: "cirejay" >Date: Sat Jan 7, 2006 2:25 am >Subject: Re: Admi's BS 26... cirejay >--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "a_admi" wrote: >Hi Eric , hi All , I am really sorry I lost my temper .... >Well said and enough said. >eric S/V Nebaras > >as far as I could read , she said sorry , but when Gerd >posted :> > I find it a pity that I am the last person you will ask >advice > > >>from, >> >> >>>but trust me: you will get it anyway. >>> >>> > >followed by many irrelevant posts > >I knew right away dear Gerd was gone gett an answer, >cause the spirited Lady is perfectly capable of responding. > >Admi has her facts right . >100 % [one hundred procent] correct . >Stating facts are no insults according my modest opinion. > >Sure we all love Gerd to continue posting , this Group >would not be the same without some serious definitions :-) > >I warned the Lady , not to post in this macho , >spirited Group , and she will probably not do so anymore >before her pdf presentation file is ready. > >Admi in the Jasmin BS 26' Kitchen and >Gerd in the Yago Kitchen , sounds a good solution :-) > >Admi is a smart business woman , she aint gone give >anything free but could come up with something good. > >Let's give her the benefit of the dought , >we all know Gerd's Yagoo since a long time . > >I posted a Joke to trye to defuse the tension , >but Gerd had to post that she was gone >get his advise anyway , what was he expecting ???? > >Applaus from the audience ? > >These posts disappear like smoke in the wind real soon. > >Lett the antagonists be silent for a while !! > >A modest proposal from an old salt :-) > >Old Ben > > >--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "a_admi" wrote: > > >>Allo Allo Gerd ,[like in the UK popular TV series ] >> >>--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Gerd" wrote: >> >> >> >>>I really and simply tried to be helpful. >>> >>> >>I really and simply will trye to be helpfull to you >> >> >>>I find it a pity that I am the last person you will ask advice >>> >>> >>from, >> >> >>>but trust me: you will get it anyway. >>> >>> >>This is really self-admitted compulsive advisory behaviour ! >>As self-appointed advisor ,commentator and promotor of the >>Jasmina BS 26'you sure succeeded in having many post about >>the Jasmina BS 26' , thanks for the promotion. >> >>...trust me : you succeeded in designing the most stable >>sideboarder when flipped , cause the Yago project boat , >>when flipped will stay there for a long long long time . >> >>this is why your Yago , as designed will never never never >>be accepted for any EU certification , any pro would >>conform to and confirm to you , even riverboats have to :-) >>that is a fact , simple and clear . >> >> >> >>>Drop your weapons and relax, ok? ;-) >>> >>> >>I am very relaxed , how relaxed are you :-) >>Drop defending yourself and skipping the real argument. >>If you are in a hole , stop digging . >> >> > Gerd >> >> >>>The Yago Project at http://www.justmueller.com/boats/ >>> >>> >>A woman's saying is : if you can't stand the heat , >>get out of my kitchen . >>Feel free to continue to advise whatever.... >>Could be you can fool some . >> >>Regards. >>Admi >>-The Jasmina BS 26'- Project ( no advise , just sound boats :-) >> >> >> > > > > > > >To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com >To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > | 10057|10053|2006-01-06 23:50:02|Puck III|Re: The Jasmina BS 26' Project|Wesley , see her pic in her Yahoo profile. She is a small spirited Lady from Indian Origin . By the way Admi means My Lord in India . Indian woman are supposed to call their husband that way :-) Her folks run a business in Afrika , she is better and faster with a rifle than I am :-) Real wild animals over there , like pumas and poisenous snakes , some sharks and the real crocodiles to . I think the protagonists beter stay in the kitchen for a while , on the other hand I sure loved the argument:-) Allo Allo , the best one I saw in here . Sorry to lauch , its my way of defusing . This Group is Great :-) Old Ben --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Wesley Cox wrote: > > Oops, my assumption was based on the level of testosterone in the attacks. > > > Puck III wrote: > > >Wesley , sorry to disagree , Admi aint a guy , its a Lady :-) > > > >Eric said it well > >From: "cirejay" > >Date: Sat Jan 7, 2006 2:25 am > >Subject: Re: Admi's BS 26... cirejay > >--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "a_admi" wrote: > >Hi Eric , hi All , I am really sorry I lost my temper .... > >Well said and enough said. > >eric S/V Nebaras > > > >as far as I could read , she said sorry , but when Gerd > >posted :> > I find it a pity that I am the last person you will ask > >advice > > > > > >>from, > >> > >> > >>>but trust me: you will get it anyway. > >>> > >>> > > > >followed by many irrelevant posts > > > >I knew right away dear Gerd was gone gett an answer, > >cause the spirited Lady is perfectly capable of responding. > > > >Admi has her facts right . > >100 % [one hundred procent] correct . > >Stating facts are no insults according my modest opinion. > > > >Sure we all love Gerd to continue posting , this Group > >would not be the same without some serious definitions :-) > > > >I warned the Lady , not to post in this macho , > >spirited Group , and she will probably not do so anymore > >before her pdf presentation file is ready. > > > >Admi in the Jasmin BS 26' Kitchen and > >Gerd in the Yago Kitchen , sounds a good solution :-) > > > >Admi is a smart business woman , she aint gone give > >anything free but could come up with something good. > > > >Let's give her the benefit of the dought , > >we all know Gerd's Yagoo since a long time . > > > >I posted a Joke to trye to defuse the tension , > >but Gerd had to post that she was gone > >get his advise anyway , what was he expecting ???? > > > >Applaus from the audience ? > > > >These posts disappear like smoke in the wind real soon. > > > >Lett the antagonists be silent for a while !! > > > >A modest proposal from an old salt :-) > > > >Old Ben > > > > > >--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "a_admi" wrote: > > > > > >>Allo Allo Gerd ,[like in the UK popular TV series ] > >> > >>--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Gerd" wrote: > >> > >> > >> > >>>I really and simply tried to be helpful. > >>> > >>> > >>I really and simply will trye to be helpfull to you > >> > >> > >>>I find it a pity that I am the last person you will ask advice > >>> > >>> > >>from, > >> > >> > >>>but trust me: you will get it anyway. > >>> > >>> > >>This is really self-admitted compulsive advisory behaviour ! > >>As self-appointed advisor ,commentator and promotor of the > >>Jasmina BS 26'you sure succeeded in having many post about > >>the Jasmina BS 26' , thanks for the promotion. > >> > >>...trust me : you succeeded in designing the most stable > >>sideboarder when flipped , cause the Yago project boat , > >>when flipped will stay there for a long long long time . > >> > >>this is why your Yago , as designed will never never never > >>be accepted for any EU certification , any pro would > >>conform to and confirm to you , even riverboats have to :-) > >>that is a fact , simple and clear . > >> > >> > >> > >>>Drop your weapons and relax, ok? ;-) > >>> > >>> > >>I am very relaxed , how relaxed are you :-) > >>Drop defending yourself and skipping the real argument. > >>If you are in a hole , stop digging . > >> > >> > Gerd > >> > >> > >>>The Yago Project at http://www.justmueller.com/boats/ > >>> > >>> > >>A woman's saying is : if you can't stand the heat , > >>get out of my kitchen . > >>Feel free to continue to advise whatever.... > >>Could be you can fool some . > >> > >>Regards. > >>Admi > >>-The Jasmina BS 26'- Project ( no advise , just sound boats :-) > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > >To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats- unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > | 10058|10053|2006-01-07 03:23:45|Jim Baltaxe|Re: The Jasmina BS 26' Project|Hi Ben All well and good, but just for the benefit of us lurkers; what was she on about? All I saw from Gerd was something that looked like well intentioned, constructive comments, certainly nothing warranting the outburst, even though it was later partially withdrawn. Perhaps the reason she's so fast with a rifle is that she shoots from the hip? I certainly wouldn't want to be hunting with her in the neighbourhood. Enjoy Jim Baltaxe 8 Knoll Street Island Bay, Wellington NEW ZEALAND +64 (04) 934 1407 021 243 5018 Never fight someone with nothing left to lose. Klein bottle for rent. Inquire within. "If we knew what we were doing, it wouldn't be called research, would it?" -- Albert Einstein -----Original Message----- From: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com [mailto:origamiboats@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Puck III Sent: Saturday, 7 January 2006 5:50 p.m. To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Subject: [origamiboats] Re: The Jasmina BS 26' Project Wesley , see her pic in her Yahoo profile. She is a small spirited Lady from Indian Origin . By the way Admi means My Lord in India . Indian woman are supposed to call their husband that way :-) Her folks run a business in Afrika , she is better and faster with a rifle than I am :-) Real wild animals over there , like pumas and poisenous snakes , some sharks and the real crocodiles to . I think the protagonists beter stay in the kitchen for a while , on the other hand I sure loved the argument:-) Allo Allo , the best one I saw in here . Sorry to lauch , its my way of defusing . This Group is Great :-) Old Ben --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Wesley Cox wrote: > > Oops, my assumption was based on the level of testosterone in the attacks. > > > Puck III wrote: > > >Wesley , sorry to disagree , Admi aint a guy , its a Lady :-) > > > >Eric said it well > >From: "cirejay" > >Date: Sat Jan 7, 2006 2:25 am > >Subject: Re: Admi's BS 26... cirejay > >--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "a_admi" wrote: > >Hi Eric , hi All , I am really sorry I lost my temper .... > >Well said and enough said. > >eric S/V Nebaras > > > >as far as I could read , she said sorry , but when Gerd posted :> > I > >find it a pity that I am the last person you will ask > >advice > > > > > >>from, > >> > >> > >>>but trust me: you will get it anyway. > >>> > >>> > > > >followed by many irrelevant posts > > > >I knew right away dear Gerd was gone gett an answer, cause the > >spirited Lady is perfectly capable of responding. > > > >Admi has her facts right . > >100 % [one hundred procent] correct . > >Stating facts are no insults according my modest opinion. > > > >Sure we all love Gerd to continue posting , this Group would not be > >the same without some serious definitions :-) > > > >I warned the Lady , not to post in this macho , spirited Group , and > >she will probably not do so anymore before her pdf presentation file > >is ready. > > > >Admi in the Jasmin BS 26' Kitchen and Gerd in the Yago Kitchen , > >sounds a good solution :-) > > > >Admi is a smart business woman , she aint gone give anything free but > >could come up with something good. > > > >Let's give her the benefit of the dought , we all know Gerd's Yagoo > >since a long time . > > > >I posted a Joke to trye to defuse the tension , but Gerd had to post > >that she was gone get his advise anyway , what was he expecting ???? > > > >Applaus from the audience ? > > > >These posts disappear like smoke in the wind real soon. > > > >Lett the antagonists be silent for a while !! > > > >A modest proposal from an old salt :-) > > > >Old Ben > > > > > >--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "a_admi" wrote: > > > > > >>Allo Allo Gerd ,[like in the UK popular TV series ] > >> > >>--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Gerd" wrote: > >> > >> > >> > >>>I really and simply tried to be helpful. > >>> > >>> > >>I really and simply will trye to be helpfull to you > >> > >> > >>>I find it a pity that I am the last person you will ask advice > >>> > >>> > >>from, > >> > >> > >>>but trust me: you will get it anyway. > >>> > >>> > >>This is really self-admitted compulsive advisory behaviour ! > >>As self-appointed advisor ,commentator and promotor of the Jasmina > >>BS 26'you sure succeeded in having many post about the Jasmina BS > >>26' , thanks for the promotion. > >> > >>...trust me : you succeeded in designing the most stable sideboarder > >>when flipped , cause the Yago project boat , when flipped will stay > >>there for a long long long time . > >> > >>this is why your Yago , as designed will never never never be > >>accepted for any EU certification , any pro would conform to and > >>confirm to you , even riverboats have to :-) that is a fact , simple > >>and clear . > >> > >> > >> > >>>Drop your weapons and relax, ok? ;-) > >>> > >>> > >>I am very relaxed , how relaxed are you :-) Drop defending yourself > >>and skipping the real argument. > >>If you are in a hole , stop digging . > >> > >> > Gerd > >> > >> > >>>The Yago Project at http://www.justmueller.com/boats/ > >>> > >>> > >>A woman's saying is : if you can't stand the heat , get out of my > >>kitchen . > >>Feel free to continue to advise whatever.... > >>Could be you can fool some . > >> > >>Regards. > >>Admi > >>-The Jasmina BS 26'- Project ( no advise , just sound boats :-) > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > >To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats- unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.14.13/221 - Release Date: 4/01/2006 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.14.13/221 - Release Date: 4/01/2006 | 10059|10053|2006-01-07 05:02:14|Gerd|Re: The Jasmina BS 26' Project|Admi - for a moment you had me really worried, so I dug out my original post to see what I had written. Here it is: "Would not do that without Brent's participation in the modification - apart from changing the lateral plan and underwater configuration, replacing a fixed keel with a centerboard or even a lift keel would require a significant increase of ballast. So that would be a different boat alltogether..." I short: consult Brent if you want to change the placement of your ballast.... Well, for the life of me, I can not see what is wrong with that or what could offend anybody to the point of relentlessly atacking me like that. As I come here for fun, have no interest in flames and do not see what I should defend myself against when I am among friends, I will from now on consider this part of the thread as an non-issue and simply ignore it. No hard feelings, this is a good place to be, and one of the best on the net ;-) gerd| 10060|10060|2006-01-07 06:10:16|Gerd|European RCD|I thought this might merit a thread of it's own. Actually, meeting the RCD requirements is not so difficult - even the worst commercially produced rubbish makes it, no? ;-) The directive itself really requires only the strict minimum of what we would consider a seaworthy boat anyway. For example, concerning stability, the AVS (angle of vanishing stability) is set low enough so that catamarans can make it, and there is no mention of inverted stability of lack thereof at all. I have no doubt that all of Brents designs, and probably 99 % of the other designs out there on the market could produce a boat that would pass the requirements (including my own) In some respects, it would even have a negative effect on our boats if we would tryx to comply: for example, not only the boat but also the some of the equipment has to be certified, meaning a brent-style bullet proof self-made hatch would need to be replaced with a more flimsy commercial but certified product. Another common misunderstanding: It is not the plan that is approved, but the resulting boat itself, either individually in the case of one-off amateur construction, or as a prototype if it's serial production (with the promise of the yard that all following boats will be built the same way) On bigger boats there is at least one inspection, but in the lower classes it is enough that the yard comfirms that the boat is built according to submitted file ("self- control"). Most designers here in Europe are realistic and honest enough to tell amateurs not to bother. Some will say that their designs are RCD compliant - but careful, this does not mean anything else than that basic stability and flooding calculations give results that are within the required parameters, and that the scantling is sufficient. It does not mean that a boat built to this plan IS automatically RCD certified, and it certaily does not mean that the plans contain the certification or even any part of the work required to apply. It's up to the builder, and for each boat individually, to apply. Even if one builder already got the certif for, say, a BS 36, the next guy would have to do it all over again because it's not serial production by the same yard. The real difficulty is the preparation of the file. If you see that even some smaller yards prefer to ask specialized agents to handle that for them, and for a lot of money, you will understand that for an amateur without the connections and experience this is probably a royal pain in the ass, and quite expensive on top of that. I think that, for the type of simple, low tax and low-luxury boats we are talking about here, it's really not worth the hassle and nerves involved. I know, we are all bickering up against adminstration, but in reality, the RCD is a just a realtively simple, basic first measure to protect consumers from the worst of comemrcial junk and to force yards to publish a minimum of controllable facts and numbers about the boats they sell. That even the RCD did not prevent Bavaria from selling a boat that lost it's keel while sailing, only seems to prove that if anything it is still not difficult enough to get the RCD... but again, it is NOT REQUIRED if you build for yourself and do not sell within the first 5 years. If in spite of that you really want to know what's in it, go to http://www.rsg.be/ or http://www.imci.org/languages/englishlanguage/index1.html but don't forget to take a sixpack, something to eat and warm closing, because you won't be coming back anytime soon ;-) Gerd The Yago project at http://www.justmueller.com/boats/| 10061|10060|2006-01-07 06:20:41|Gerd|Re: European RCD|...should be "low tech", not "low tax" ;-) good morning, Sigmund ;-)| 10062|10060|2006-01-07 06:59:19|sae140|Re: European RCD|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Gerd" wrote: > > I thought this might merit a thread of it's own. > > Actually, meeting the RCD requirements is not so difficult - even > the worst commercially produced rubbish makes it, no? ;-) One of the big problems with RCD-certified boats is that you end up with identical clones (by definition) coming off the production line. I wonder how many people with an RCD-certified boat realise that if it is changed in any significant way - and how many people pride themselves on changes to their boats ? - then the vessel needs to be re-certified in order to comply with the regs. And what constitutes 'significant' ? - THEY decide. Even if you change aspects of a proven commercial vessel with 30 years or more under it's keel - built and proven well before these barmy regs came into being - say changing a deep-water fishing trawler into a coast-hopping live-aboard - then the vessel needs to be re-certified. Not that certification is all that difficult, but it's one more expense we could well do without, and I for one object to jumping through bureacratic hoops. Ironically, building a vessel of 'traditional design' - whether that design is inherently seaworthy or not - remains exempt from the RC Directive. I think the Euro-bureaucrats and the people of Europe are working in opposite directions. Just give us the chance to vote !! Colin| 10063|10053|2006-01-07 10:53:13|a_admi|Re: The Jasmina BS 26' Project|Hi Jim , come hunting anytime , a Belgian owned hotel to start , the hunting prices are clear : http://www.lion51.com/index2.html we would welcome you with our usual hospitality , not many tourists in : http://www.guinee-bissau.net/archipel_bijagos.html nice unspoiled sailing, hunting and fishing grounds. Jim , I mandated nobody to speak for me . -- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "a_admi" wrote: in message 9863 from Wed Dec 14 2005 > Hi Aaron , Tom , Ben and Gerd . > I saw Alex's Video and Tom's pics , I became convinced the BS 26 > was the boat I liked to have build , I order and pay for the plans > and we have some positive fine conversations in this Group , > about the BS 26 as far as I am concerned I consider the Jasmina BS 26' my project . By law , I must comply with EU regulations if I want to sell a boat to a EU citizen . No intelligent person can ignore the North American market. I consider it normal to comply to US and Canadian regulations if I would consider selling a boat there. I choose the BS 26' , influenced by no-one. Most boats are sold finished , well documented customs payed , with no hasle for the byer. My business plan is extreemly simple . Making a good boat for a competitive price . Will I sell some localy ? probably . Internationaly ? I hope so . I put my money and my time in that project. I consider it my duty to promote and protect my investment as good as I can . I am not into politics and obide all laws. I leave it to you and the lurkers to make up your own mind about what I am on about . I realy hope the dispute is solved once and for all, reserving myself the priviledge to respond to any message where my name or the Jasmina BS 26' project is a subject. Anybody is free to put his precious money where he wants. Regards from Belgium. Admi --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Jim Baltaxe" wrote: > > Hi Ben > > All well and good, but just for the benefit of us lurkers; what was she on about? All I saw from Gerd was something that looked like well intentioned, constructive comments, certainly nothing warranting the outburst, even though it was later partially withdrawn. Perhaps the reason she's so fast with a rifle is that she shoots from the hip? I certainly wouldn't want to be hunting with her in the neighbourhood. > > Enjoy > > Jim Baltaxe > 8 Knoll Street > Island Bay, Wellington > NEW ZEALAND > +64 (04) 934 1407 > 021 243 5018 > Never fight someone with nothing left to lose. > Klein bottle for rent. Inquire within. > "If we knew what we were doing, it wouldn't be called research, would it?" -- Albert Einstein > > > -----Original Message----- > From: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com [mailto:origamiboats@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Puck III > Sent: Saturday, 7 January 2006 5:50 p.m. > To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [origamiboats] Re: The Jasmina BS 26' Project > > Wesley , see her pic in her Yahoo profile. > She is a small spirited Lady from Indian Origin . > By the way Admi means My Lord in India . > Indian woman are supposed to call their husband that way :-) > > Her folks run a business in Afrika , > she is better and faster with a rifle than I am :-) > > Real wild animals over there , like pumas and poisenous snakes , some sharks and the real crocodiles to . > > I think the protagonists beter stay in the kitchen for a while , on the other hand I sure loved the argument:-) > > Allo Allo , the best one I saw in here . > Sorry to lauch , its my way of defusing . > > This Group is Great :-) > Old Ben > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Wesley Cox wrote: > > > > Oops, my assumption was based on the level of testosterone in the > attacks. > > > > > > Puck III wrote: > > > > >Wesley , sorry to disagree , Admi aint a guy , its a Lady :-) > > > > > >Eric said it well > > >From: "cirejay" > > >Date: Sat Jan 7, 2006 2:25 am > > >Subject: Re: Admi's BS 26... cirejay > > >--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "a_admi" wrote: > > >Hi Eric , hi All , I am really sorry I lost my temper .... > > >Well said and enough said. > > >eric S/V Nebaras > > > > > >as far as I could read , she said sorry , but when Gerd posted :> > I > > >find it a pity that I am the last person you will > ask > > >advice > > > > > > > > >>from, > > >> > > >> > > >>>but trust me: you will get it anyway. > > >>> > > >>> > > > > > >followed by many irrelevant posts > > > > > >I knew right away dear Gerd was gone gett an answer, cause the > > >spirited Lady is perfectly capable of responding. > > > > > >Admi has her facts right . > > >100 % [one hundred procent] correct . > > >Stating facts are no insults according my modest opinion. > > > > > >Sure we all love Gerd to continue posting , this Group would not be > > >the same without some serious definitions :-) > > > > > >I warned the Lady , not to post in this macho , spirited Group , and > > >she will probably not do so anymore before her pdf presentation file > > >is ready. > > > > > >Admi in the Jasmin BS 26' Kitchen and Gerd in the Yago Kitchen , > > >sounds a good solution :-) > > > > > >Admi is a smart business woman , she aint gone give anything free but > > >could come up with something good. > > > > > >Let's give her the benefit of the dought , we all know Gerd's Yagoo > > >since a long time . > > > > > >I posted a Joke to trye to defuse the tension , but Gerd had to post > > >that she was gone get his advise anyway , what was he expecting ???? > > > > > >Applaus from the audience ? > > > > > >These posts disappear like smoke in the wind real soon. > > > > > >Lett the antagonists be silent for a while !! > > > > > >A modest proposal from an old salt :-) > > > > > >Old Ben > > > > > > > > >--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "a_admi" wrote: > > > > > > > > >>Allo Allo Gerd ,[like in the UK popular TV series ] > > >> > > >>--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Gerd" wrote: > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >>>I really and simply tried to be helpful. > > >>> > > >>> > > >>I really and simply will trye to be helpfull to you > > >> > > >> > > >>>I find it a pity that I am the last person you will ask advice > > >>> > > >>> > > >>from, > > >> > > >> > > >>>but trust me: you will get it anyway. > > >>> > > >>> > > >>This is really self-admitted compulsive advisory behaviour ! > > >>As self-appointed advisor ,commentator and promotor of the Jasmina > > >>BS 26'you sure succeeded in having many post about the Jasmina BS > > >>26' , thanks for the promotion. > > >> > > >>...trust me : you succeeded in designing the most stable sideboarder > > >>when flipped , cause the Yago project boat , when flipped will stay > > >>there for a long long long time . > > >> > > >>this is why your Yago , as designed will never never never be > > >>accepted for any EU certification , any pro would conform to and > > >>confirm to you , even riverboats have to :-) that is a fact , simple > > >>and clear . > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >>>Drop your weapons and relax, ok? ;-) > > >>> > > >>> > > >>I am very relaxed , how relaxed are you :-) Drop defending yourself > > >>and skipping the real argument. > > >>If you are in a hole , stop digging . > > >> > > >> > Gerd > > >> > > >> > > >>>The Yago Project at http://www.justmueller.com/boats/ > > >>> > > >>> > > >>A woman's saying is : if you can't stand the heat , get out of my > > >>kitchen . > > >>Feel free to continue to advise whatever.... > > >>Could be you can fool some . > > >> > > >>Regards. > > >>Admi > > >>-The Jasmina BS 26'- Project ( no advise , just sound boats :-) > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > >To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats- > unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats- unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.14.13/221 - Release Date: 4/01/2006 > > > -- > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.14.13/221 - Release Date: 4/01/2006 > | 10064|10031|2006-01-08 06:56:04|edward_stoneuk|Re: Admi's BS 26...|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "a_admi" wrote: > The BS 26' drawings are allready worked on , in the > best architectural company I hired in Gent , with > the latest nautical designprograms at their disposal. > They have a program to adapt the design and the > scantlings , according to the EU regulations. > I hope to have a fine presentation pdf real soon. Hi Admi, Would the company be Cardyn, Brouns and Associates? Regards, Ted| 10065|10053|2006-01-08 08:25:27|sae140|Re: The Jasmina BS 26' Project|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "a_admi" wrote: > > I consider the Jasmina BS 26' my project . > > I choose the BS 26' , influenced by no-one. > > Most boats are sold finished , well documented > customs payed , with no hasle for the byer. > > My business plan is extreemly simple . > Making a good boat for a competitive price . > Will I sell some localy ? probably . > Internationaly ? I hope so . > > I put my money and my time in that project. > > I consider it my duty to promote and protect > my investment as good as I can . > > Anybody is free to put his precious money where he wants. > > Regards from Belgium. > > Admi (all stuff irrelevant to this post clipped) Hello Admi would you care to comment further on your reasons for choosing to commercially build turn-key 26 ft. Swains, rather than (say) part- built 36 footers from the same stable ? From a strictly financial point of view, your choice does seem rather counter-intuitive ... Regards Colin| 10066|10060|2006-01-08 08:39:41|sae140|Re: European RCD|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Gerd" wrote: > > I thought this might merit a thread of it's own. > > > If in spite of that you really want to know what's in it, go to > > http://www.rsg.be/ > or > http://www.imci.org/languages/englishlanguage/index1.html > > Gerd There's also an easy introduction at: http://www.rya.org.uk/Technical/Default.asp?contentID=4185736 with a couple of useful links at the bottom of the page. Colin| 10067|10067|2006-01-08 11:00:20|tazmannusa|Photos File|Hello All Yahoo redid the photos and now we have a lot more room for photos, origamiboats 1 is only 50% full and origamiboats2 is 16% full. Seems a lot better than it was. Alex can you reopen the photos so people can upload more pictures in origamiboats 1 ? Thanks Tom| 10068|10068|2006-01-08 12:08:09|tazmannusa|New boat registration|Hello All If anyone is interested, I stopped by DMV here in California to see what I had to do to get the BS 26 registration and hull number. One form to fill out and bring receipts for materials used and they dont have to see the boat, doesnt get any easyer than that. Im realy suprised theres no inspections. I should have asked them about selling it latter on, if there a time limit or not. I will find out Tom| 10069|10060|2006-01-08 13:18:10|Gerd|Re: European RCD|Excellent link, Colin, din't know that one. Thanks a lot!! --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "sae140" wrote: > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Gerd" wrote: > > > > I thought this might merit a thread of it's own. > > > > > > If in spite of that you really want to know what's in it, go to > > > > http://www.rsg.be/ > > or > > http://www.imci.org/languages/englishlanguage/index1.html > > > > Gerd > > There's also an easy introduction at: > http://www.rya.org.uk/Technical/Default.asp?contentID=4185736 > with a couple of useful links at the bottom of the page. > > Colin > | 10070|10060|2006-01-08 13:36:22|edward_stoneuk|Re: European RCD|The RYA also sell hull scantling software. http://www.rya.org.uk/Technical/rcd/default.asp?contentId=4185261 Regards, Ted| 10071|10060|2006-01-08 13:41:35|Gerd|Re: European RCD|Any idea how much for HullScant? Couldn't find that on their site.. 300 Quid for teh CD with complete docs is quite a lot, though for commercial yards it's worth it I guess. Gerd --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "edward_stoneuk" wrote: > > The RYA also sell hull scantling software. > http://www.rya.org.uk/Technical/rcd/default.asp?contentId=4185261 > Regards, > Ted > | 10072|10060|2006-01-08 14:12:23|edward_stoneuk|Re: European RCD|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Gerd" wrote: > > Any idea how much for HullScant? Couldn't find that on their site.. > 300 Quid for teh CD with complete docs is quite a lot, though for > commercial yards it's worth it I guess. > Gerd Gerd, I'll ask them. £300 is lot though perhaps not if one really intends going that route . From the start of this year the one has to have an engine exhaust compliance certificate from the manufacturer. I have an old refurbished Daihatsu diesel which might pose a problem in getting a certificate for so I probably will not be going RCD. Regards, Ted| 10073|10068|2006-01-08 15:22:02|cirejay|Re: New boat registration|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "tazmannusa" wrote: > > Hello All > If anyone is interested, I stopped by DMV here in California to see > what I had to do to get the BS 26 registration and hull number. One > form to fill out and bring receipts for materials used and they dont > have to see the boat, doesnt get any easyer than that. Im realy > suprised theres no inspections. I'm not surprised, here in the states, gov't is more concerned about what we do in the bedroom than anything else. I know that I'm going to get in trouble for this, but I just couldn't resist:-) eric S/V Nebaras| 10074|10068|2006-01-08 16:04:11|Wesley Cox|Re: New boat registration|For once we agree. It's also about the fee (tax) collection. It was exactly the same in Missouri and appears to be the same in Wisconsin, though I haven't read their regulations in great detail, yet. "Prove" the new boat exists with material receipts and pay a fee. No concern about the seaworthiness of the new boat, the safety of its occupants, those in nearby boats or the rescue team that may end up dealing with the results of its lack of seaworthiness. cirejay wrote: >--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "tazmannusa" wrote: > > >>Hello All >> If anyone is interested, I stopped by DMV here in California to see >>what I had to do to get the BS 26 registration and hull number. One >>form to fill out and bring receipts for materials used and they dont >>have to see the boat, doesnt get any easyer than that. Im realy >>suprised theres no inspections. >> >> > >I'm not surprised, here in the states, gov't is more concerned about >what we do in the bedroom than anything else. > >I know that I'm going to get in trouble for this, but I just couldn't >resist:-) > >eric S/V Nebaras > > > > > > > >To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com >To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > | 10075|10060|2006-01-08 16:48:58|Gerd|Re: European RCD|Ted, I found it. HullScant is actually from the wolfson unit, and it's 950 pounds... http://www.wumtia.soton.ac.uk/pricelist.html there is also a demo version, will check that out soon. Gerd| 10076|10067|2006-01-08 18:13:42|Alex Christie|Re: Photos File|Hi Tom, I'll re-open the photo section in group one tonight, when I get back home. Thanks for the heads-up! Alex On 8-Jan-06, at 7:59 AM, tazmannusa wrote: > Hello All > Yahoo redid the photos and now we have a lot more room for photos, > origamiboats 1 is only 50% full and origamiboats2 is 16% full. Seems a > lot better than it was. > Alex can you reopen the photos so people can upload more pictures in > origamiboats 1 ? > Thanks > Tom > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 10077|10068|2006-01-08 18:47:24|tom|Re: New boat registration|There are saftey rules and they give you a pamplet on them, DMV doesnt check to see if you have them or not but the coast guard can and will if something doesnt look right so will lake patrol and harbor patrol. I do beleave anyone building there own boat would have enough common sense to build it as safe as they can and have the saftey equipment onboard, but Im sure there are exceptions. Hope they never change the rules on it because I wouldnt want to go through 10 yards of red tape to get it done Tom ----- Original Message ----- From: "Wesley Cox" To: Sent: Sunday, January 08, 2006 1:05 PM Subject: Re: [origamiboats] Re: New boat registration > For once we agree. It's also about the fee (tax) collection. It was > exactly the same in Missouri and appears to be the same in Wisconsin, > though I haven't read their regulations in great detail, yet. "Prove" > the new boat exists with material receipts and pay a fee. No concern > about the seaworthiness of the new boat, the safety of its occupants, > those in nearby boats or the rescue team that may end up dealing with > the results of its lack of seaworthiness. > > cirejay wrote: > >>--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "tazmannusa" wrote: >> >> >>>Hello All >>> If anyone is interested, I stopped by DMV here in California to see >>>what I had to do to get the BS 26 registration and hull number. One >>>form to fill out and bring receipts for materials used and they dont >>>have to see the boat, doesnt get any easyer than that. Im realy >>>suprised theres no inspections. >>> >>> >> >>I'm not surprised, here in the states, gov't is more concerned about >>what we do in the bedroom than anything else. >> >>I know that I'm going to get in trouble for this, but I just couldn't >>resist:-) >> >>eric S/V Nebaras >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com >>To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: >>origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com >>Yahoo! Groups Links >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > | 10078|10068|2006-01-08 19:10:25|Wesley Cox|Re: New boat registration|Agreed on all points. I've never been stopped by any lake patrol, but have been warned they stop boats far more often than law enforcement stops cars. The rules are very favorable to ease of registration for boat builders, as long as you pays your moneys. The last time I paid all the registration and licensing fees for a purchased boat, motor and trailer, it was $100 on a $300 purchase! tom wrote: >There are saftey rules and they give you a pamplet on them, DMV doesnt check >to see if you have them or not but the coast guard can and will if something >doesnt look right so will lake patrol and harbor patrol. I do beleave anyone >building there own boat would have enough common sense to build it as safe >as they can and have the saftey equipment onboard, but Im sure there are >exceptions. Hope they never change the rules on it because I wouldnt want to >go through 10 yards of red tape to get it done >Tom >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Wesley Cox" >To: >Sent: Sunday, January 08, 2006 1:05 PM >Subject: Re: [origamiboats] Re: New boat registration > > > > >>For once we agree. It's also about the fee (tax) collection. It was >>exactly the same in Missouri and appears to be the same in Wisconsin, >>though I haven't read their regulations in great detail, yet. "Prove" >>the new boat exists with material receipts and pay a fee. No concern >>about the seaworthiness of the new boat, the safety of its occupants, >>those in nearby boats or the rescue team that may end up dealing with >>the results of its lack of seaworthiness. >> >>cirejay wrote: >> >> >> >>>--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "tazmannusa" wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>Hello All >>>>If anyone is interested, I stopped by DMV here in California to see >>>>what I had to do to get the BS 26 registration and hull number. One >>>>form to fill out and bring receipts for materials used and they dont >>>>have to see the boat, doesnt get any easyer than that. Im realy >>>>suprised theres no inspections. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>I'm not surprised, here in the states, gov't is more concerned about >>>what we do in the bedroom than anything else. >>> >>>I know that I'm going to get in trouble for this, but I just couldn't >>>resist:-) >>> >>>eric S/V Nebaras >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com >>>To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: >>>origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com >>>Yahoo! Groups Links >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >>To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com >>To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: >>origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com >>Yahoo! Groups Links >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > >To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com >To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > | 10079|10053|2006-01-08 21:15:30|Jim Baltaxe|Re: The Jasmina BS 26' Project|Hi Admi The site looks great. I'd love to hunt with you next time I'm in the neighbourhood ;^) Actually that isn't quite as flippant as it might seem. I have family in Europe and would love to explore G-B, particularly the coastal islands. I know that you never asked, or needed, anyone else to speak for you. I was just reacting to a very strong overreaction to, from what I could see, was Gerde's well-intentioned constructive suggestion to check with the designer before making changes which he may well have considered and rejected. Enjoy Jim Baltaxe ITS Desktop Support Victoria University of Wellington NEW ZEALAND (04) 463 5018 or 021 243 5018 Never fight someone with nothing left to lose. Klein bottle for rent. Inquire within. "If we knew what we were doing, it wouldn't be called research, would it?" -- Albert Einstein > -----Original Message----- > From: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:origamiboats@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of a_admi > Sent: Sunday, 8 January 2006 4:53 > To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [origamiboats] Re: The Jasmina BS 26' Project > > Hi Jim , come hunting anytime , a Belgian owned hotel to > start , the hunting prices are clear : > http://www.lion51.com/index2.html > we would welcome you with our usual hospitality , not many > tourists in : > http://www.guinee-bissau.net/archipel_bijagos.html > nice unspoiled sailing, hunting and fishing grounds. > > Jim , I mandated nobody to speak for me . > > -- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "a_admi" wrote: > in message 9863 from Wed Dec 14 2005 > > Hi Aaron , Tom , Ben and Gerd . > > I saw Alex's Video and Tom's pics , I became convinced the > BS 26 was > > the boat I liked to have build , I order and pay for the > plans and we > > have some positive fine conversations in this Group , about > the BS 26 > > as far as I am concerned > > I consider the Jasmina BS 26' my project . > By law , I must comply with EU regulations if I want to sell > a boat to a EU citizen . > No intelligent person can ignore the North American market. > I consider it normal to comply to US and Canadian regulations > if I would consider selling a boat there. > I choose the BS 26' , influenced by no-one. > > Most boats are sold finished , well documented customs payed > , with no hasle for the byer. > > My business plan is extreemly simple . > Making a good boat for a competitive price . > Will I sell some localy ? probably . > Internationaly ? I hope so . > > I put my money and my time in that project. > > I consider it my duty to promote and protect my investment as > good as I can . > > I am not into politics and obide all laws. > > I leave it to you and the lurkers to make up your own mind > about what I am on about . > > I realy hope the dispute is solved once and for all, > reserving myself the priviledge to respond to any message > where my name or the Jasmina BS 26' project is a subject. > > Anybody is free to put his precious money where he wants. > > Regards from Belgium. > > Admi > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Jim Baltaxe" > wrote: > > > > Hi Ben > > > > All well and good, but just for the benefit of us lurkers; what was > she on about? All I saw from Gerd was something that looked > like well intentioned, constructive comments, certainly > nothing warranting the outburst, even though it was later > partially withdrawn. Perhaps the reason she's so fast with a > rifle is that she shoots from the hip? I certainly wouldn't > want to be hunting with her in the neighbourhood. > > > > Enjoy > > > > Jim Baltaxe > > 8 Knoll Street > > Island Bay, Wellington > > NEW ZEALAND > > +64 (04) 934 1407 > > 021 243 5018 > > Never fight someone with nothing left to lose. > > Klein bottle for rent. Inquire within. > > "If we knew what we were doing, it wouldn't be called research, > would it?" -- Albert Einstein > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:origamiboats@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Puck III > > Sent: Saturday, 7 January 2006 5:50 p.m. > > To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [origamiboats] Re: The Jasmina BS 26' Project > > > > Wesley , see her pic in her Yahoo profile. > > She is a small spirited Lady from Indian Origin . > > By the way Admi means My Lord in India . > > Indian woman are supposed to call their husband that way :-) > > > > Her folks run a business in Afrika , > > she is better and faster with a rifle than I am :-) > > > > Real wild animals over there , like pumas and poisenous snakes , > some sharks and the real crocodiles to . > > > > I think the protagonists beter stay in the kitchen for a while , on > the other hand I sure loved the argument:-) > > > > Allo Allo , the best one I saw in here . > > Sorry to lauch , its my way of defusing . > > > > This Group is Great :-) > > Old Ben > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Wesley Cox > wrote: > > > > > > Oops, my assumption was based on the level of testosterone in the > > attacks. > > > > > > > > > Puck III wrote: > > > > > > >Wesley , sorry to disagree , Admi aint a guy , its a Lady :-) > > > > > > > >Eric said it well > > > >From: "cirejay" > > > >Date: Sat Jan 7, 2006 2:25 am > > > >Subject: Re: Admi's BS 26... cirejay > > > >--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "a_admi" > wrote: > > > >Hi Eric , hi All , I am really sorry I lost my temper .... > > > >Well said and enough said. > > > >eric S/V Nebaras > > > > > > > >as far as I could read , she said sorry , but when Gerd > posted :> > I > > > >find it a pity that I am the last person you will > > ask > > > >advice > > > > > > > > > > > >>from, > > > >> > > > >> > > > >>>but trust me: you will get it anyway. > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > > > > > >followed by many irrelevant posts > > > > > > > >I knew right away dear Gerd was gone gett an answer, cause the > > > >spirited Lady is perfectly capable of responding. > > > > > > > >Admi has her facts right . > > > >100 % [one hundred procent] correct . > > > >Stating facts are no insults according my modest opinion. > > > > > > > >Sure we all love Gerd to continue posting , this Group would not > be > > > >the same without some serious definitions :-) > > > > > > > >I warned the Lady , not to post in this macho , spirited Group , > and > > > >she will probably not do so anymore before her pdf presentation > file > > > >is ready. > > > > > > > >Admi in the Jasmin BS 26' Kitchen and Gerd in the Yago Kitchen , > > > >sounds a good solution :-) > > > > > > > >Admi is a smart business woman , she aint gone give anything > free but > > > >could come up with something good. > > > > > > > >Let's give her the benefit of the dought , we all know Gerd's > Yagoo > > > >since a long time . > > > > > > > >I posted a Joke to trye to defuse the tension , but Gerd had to > post > > > >that she was gone get his advise anyway , what was he > expecting ???? > > > > > > > >Applaus from the audience ? > > > > > > > >These posts disappear like smoke in the wind real soon. > > > > > > > >Lett the antagonists be silent for a while !! > > > > > > > >A modest proposal from an old salt :-) > > > > > > > >Old Ben > > > > > > > > > > > >--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "a_admi" > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > >>Allo Allo Gerd ,[like in the UK popular TV series ] > > > >> > > > >>--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Gerd" wrote: > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >>>I really and simply tried to be helpful. > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>I really and simply will trye to be helpfull to you > > > >> > > > >> > > > >>>I find it a pity that I am the last person you will ask advice > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>from, > > > >> > > > >> > > > >>>but trust me: you will get it anyway. > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>This is really self-admitted compulsive advisory behaviour ! > > > >>As self-appointed advisor ,commentator and promotor of the > Jasmina > > > >>BS 26'you sure succeeded in having many post about the Jasmina > BS > > > >>26' , thanks for the promotion. > > > >> > > > >>...trust me : you succeeded in designing the most stable > sideboarder > > > >>when flipped , cause the Yago project boat , when flipped will > stay > > > >>there for a long long long time . > > > >> > > > >>this is why your Yago , as designed will never never never be > > > >>accepted for any EU certification , any pro would conform to > and > > > >>confirm to you , even riverboats have to :-) that is a fact , > simple > > > >>and clear . > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >>>Drop your weapons and relax, ok? ;-) > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>I am very relaxed , how relaxed are you :-) Drop defending > yourself > > > >>and skipping the real argument. > > > >>If you are in a hole , stop digging . > > > >> > > > >> > Gerd > > > >> > > > >> > > > >>>The Yago Project at http://www.justmueller.com/boats/ > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>A woman's saying is : if you can't stand the heat , get out of > my > > > >>kitchen . > > > >>Feel free to continue to advise whatever.... > > > >>Could be you can fool some . > > > >> > > > >>Regards. > > > >>Admi > > > >>-The Jasmina BS 26'- Project ( no advise , just sound boats :-) > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > > >To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats- > > unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats- > unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > > Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.14.13/221 - Release Date: > 4/01/2006 > > > > > > -- > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > > Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.14.13/221 - Release Date: > 4/01/2006 > > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > | 10080|10068|2006-01-08 21:37:14|mickeyolaf|Re: New boat registration|When I registered my boat in BC there were no fees. I wasn't made to even prove the boat existed. I filled out the forms, put a value on it, paid no fees(at the time) and received a K number. The fee's came later when I received a bill from the Provincial Gov for Provincial sales tax. (PST had not been paid on my boat's materials at the time of purchase). If you have already paid PST on all of the parts, and you can prove it, and they believe you, you could say so on the bill, mail it back to them and see if it flys with the Provincial pirates. A buddy of mine who built a catamaran wrote on the bill "homemade boat, PST paid on all materials" and sent it back. He never heard again from them. My insurance company sent me a registered letter stating that before my boat is splashed it must be inspected for proper construction techniques and seaworthiness. I have to pay for the inspection and they choose the inspector. $400.00 cost to me. So in reality if you want to register and insure your boat, if you are honest about it's value and what taxes have or have not been paid and you buy insurance it is very expensive in BC. There are a lot of highwaymen along the road when you build a boat in BC. They just don't wear masks. You can still spot them though as they stand behind the counters at marine stores, marine insurance companies, marinas, or inspect boats etc. Instead of a Winchester they are holding signs which say "on sale" or "30% off", when in reality the parts or services were already marked up 100%. An interesting story is the relative of mine who bought a Canadian registered boat berthed in Pt. Roberts, Washington. He changed the registration into his name and sure enough along comes the PST bill from the BC Gov. He wrote back that the boat was in the US, the transaction took place in the US, and he wasn't paying. The Gov agreed it wasn't a BC sale and that was the end of the bill. -- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "tazmannusa" wrote: > > Hello All > If anyone is interested, I stopped by DMV here in California to see > what I had to do to get the BS 26 registration and hull number. One > form to fill out and bring receipts for materials used and they dont > have to see the boat, doesnt get any easyer than that. Im realy > suprised theres no inspections. I should have asked them about selling > it latter on, if there a time limit or not. I will find out > Tom > | 10081|10068|2006-01-09 15:21:16|jericoera|Re: New boat registration for the queen|Be advised that if you register your boat in Canada, you are being good enough to give one third of it to the queen though I don't believe any private vessels have been comondeered by the royals since WWII. Just so you know you will no longer be the sole owner. Having said that, if you end up in US waters heading for Cuba and they decide to seize your boat under the Patriot Act, I would expect having the queen as a third owner in your boat may save you some seizure headaches as I doubt they would as easily seize Crown property. Just a thought. Carl mcIntosh --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "mickeyolaf" wrote: > > When I registered my boat in BC there were no fees. I wasn't made to even prove the boat > existed. I filled out the forms, put a value on it, paid no fees (at the time) and received a K > number. > > The fee's came later when I received a bill from the Provincial Gov for Provincial sales tax. > (PST had not been paid on my boat's materials at the time of purchase). If you have > already paid PST on all of the parts, and you can prove it, and they believe you, you could > say so on the bill, mail it back to them and see if it flys with the Provincial pirates. A buddy > of mine who built a catamaran wrote on the bill "homemade boat, PST paid on all > materials" and sent it back. He never heard again from them. > > My insurance company sent me a registered letter stating that before my boat is splashed > it must be inspected for proper construction techniques and seaworthiness. I have to pay > for the inspection and they choose the inspector. $400.00 cost to me. > > So in reality if you want to register and insure your boat, if you are honest about it's value > and what taxes have or have not been paid and you buy insurance it is very expensive in > BC. > There are a lot of highwaymen along the road when you build a boat in BC. They just don't > wear masks. You can still spot them though as they stand behind the counters at marine > stores, marine insurance companies, marinas, or inspect boats etc. Instead of a Winchester > they are holding signs which say "on sale" or "30% off", when in reality the parts or services > were already marked up 100%. > > An interesting story is the relative of mine who bought a Canadian registered boat berthed > in Pt. Roberts, Washington. He changed the registration into his name and sure enough > along comes the PST bill from the BC Gov. He wrote back that the boat was in the US, the > transaction took place in the US, and he wasn't paying. The Gov agreed it wasn't a BC sale > and that was the end of the bill. > > > > > > > > > > -- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "tazmannusa" wrote: > > > > Hello All > > If anyone is interested, I stopped by DMV here in California to see > > what I had to do to get the BS 26 registration and hull number. One > > form to fill out and bring receipts for materials used and they dont > > have to see the boat, doesnt get any easyer than that. Im realy > > suprised theres no inspections. I should have asked them about selling > > it latter on, if there a time limit or not. I will find out > > Tom > > > | 10082|10031|2006-01-09 15:21:38|evanmoonjunk|Re: Admi's BS 26...|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "tom" wrote: > > Hello Admi > If I recall Dove III was changed a lot from the original 26 its larger > 28'-29' ft with around a 9' beam, If anyome knows for sure let us know? > Hi Tom, Dove III was one of 3 boats that I built based on Brents 26' stretched to 28' with about a 9' beam. The keel on Dove III was not much longer than the regular fin keel, I think about 18" deep and quite wide, about 22" but I could be wrong about the last 2 figures it is a long time since I saw the boat. I still have the patterns that I used for these 3 boats....Evan > | 10083|10083|2006-01-09 15:37:56|ryan tinsley|pilot house retrofit|Happy New Year, In seaching for a pilot house design that could be fit to a George Beuhler Juna I have become interested in Brent Swain's work which refreshingly seems to embrace functionality, innovation and simplicity. I plan to construct the house out of 10gu. corten with 3/8 tempered glass windows. I imagine the origami boat building book will provide guidance to the proper scantlings of the pilot house as well as the general layout of the cockpit and hatchway? Just a note, the Juna is not abstract. Couriously Yours, Ryan --------------------------------- Yahoo! Photos Got holiday prints? See all the ways to get quality prints in your hands ASAP. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]| 10084|10068|2006-01-09 16:23:59|brentswain38|Re: New boat registration for the queen|A K number is all you need. It doesn't have to be renewed, and makes it impossible for anyone to get a lien on your boat to stick. Expect the feds to start charging ever increasing fees for the renewal of registry , now that they've got their toe in the door.As for US waters, it's best to simply avoid the US altogether in this era of the new McCarthyism. I sail non stop, 300 miles offshore from BC to Mexico. Its an easy two week downwind sail in mid september.As most Mexican huricanes don't go more than halfway up the Baja that time of year and start down around Nicaragua, you get plenty of warning . Leaving mid september reduces the time you have to stay in northern Mexico before heading further south. Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "jericoera" wrote: > > Be advised that if you register your boat in Canada, you are being > good enough to give one third of it to the queen though I don't > believe any private vessels have been comondeered by the royals > since WWII. > > Just so you know you will no longer be the sole owner. Having said > that, if you end up in US waters heading for Cuba and they decide to > seize your boat under the Patriot Act, I would expect having the > queen as a third owner in your boat may save you some seizure > headaches as I doubt they would as easily seize Crown property. > > Just a thought. > > Carl mcIntosh > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "mickeyolaf" > wrote: > > > > When I registered my boat in BC there were no fees. I wasn't made > to even prove the boat > > existed. I filled out the forms, put a value on it, paid no fees > (at the time) and received a K > > number. > > > > The fee's came later when I received a bill from the Provincial > Gov for Provincial sales tax. > > (PST had not been paid on my boat's materials at the time of > purchase). If you have > > already paid PST on all of the parts, and you can prove it, and > they believe you, you could > > say so on the bill, mail it back to them and see if it flys with > the Provincial pirates. A buddy > > of mine who built a catamaran wrote on the bill "homemade boat, > PST paid on all > > materials" and sent it back. He never heard again from them. > > > > My insurance company sent me a registered letter stating that > before my boat is splashed > > it must be inspected for proper construction techniques and > seaworthiness. I have to pay > > for the inspection and they choose the inspector. $400.00 cost to > me. > > > > So in reality if you want to register and insure your boat, if you > are honest about it's value > > and what taxes have or have not been paid and you buy insurance it > is very expensive in > > BC. > > There are a lot of highwaymen along the road when you build a boat > in BC. They just don't > > wear masks. You can still spot them though as they stand behind > the counters at marine > > stores, marine insurance companies, marinas, or inspect boats etc. > Instead of a Winchester > > they are holding signs which say "on sale" or "30% off", when in > reality the parts or services > > were already marked up 100%. > > > > An interesting story is the relative of mine who bought a Canadian > registered boat berthed > > in Pt. Roberts, Washington. He changed the registration into his > name and sure enough > > along comes the PST bill from the BC Gov. He wrote back that the > boat was in the US, the > > transaction took place in the US, and he wasn't paying. The Gov > agreed it wasn't a BC sale > > and that was the end of the bill. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "tazmannusa" > wrote: > > > > > > Hello All > > > If anyone is interested, I stopped by DMV here in California to > see > > > what I had to do to get the BS 26 registration and hull number. > One > > > form to fill out and bring receipts for materials used and they > dont > > > have to see the boat, doesnt get any easyer than that. Im realy > > > suprised theres no inspections. I should have asked them about > selling > > > it latter on, if there a time limit or not. I will find out > > > Tom > > > > > > | 10085|10068|2006-01-09 16:53:07|brentswain38|Re: New boat registration|How long ago did you get this K number? I remember a broker friend making many trips with Alberta clients to the US to make the transaction outside Canada to avoid the taxes. Afer losing my first boat on a Fijian coral reef, it cost me far less to replace it than it would have cost for offshore insurance, so I haven't bothered with insurance. I once made a claim for medical insurance in Frisco and the travel insurance company, Travel Underwriters, Worldwide Mediclaim refused to pay because I didn't have a credit card for them to put my expenses on and force me to go to court to get reimbursed . I've since met others with similar problems with them. I don't have much confidence in the liklihood of insurance companies keeping the promises they sell me. Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "mickeyolaf" wrote: > > When I registered my boat in BC there were no fees. I wasn't made to even prove the boat > existed. I filled out the forms, put a value on it, paid no fees(at the time) and received a K > number. > > The fee's came later when I received a bill from the Provincial Gov for Provincial sales tax. > (PST had not been paid on my boat's materials at the time of purchase). If you have > already paid PST on all of the parts, and you can prove it, and they believe you, you could > say so on the bill, mail it back to them and see if it flys with the Provincial pirates. A buddy > of mine who built a catamaran wrote on the bill "homemade boat, PST paid on all > materials" and sent it back. He never heard again from them. > > My insurance company sent me a registered letter stating that before my boat is splashed > it must be inspected for proper construction techniques and seaworthiness. I have to pay > for the inspection and they choose the inspector. $400.00 cost to me. > > So in reality if you want to register and insure your boat, if you are honest about it's value > and what taxes have or have not been paid and you buy insurance it is very expensive in > BC. > There are a lot of highwaymen along the road when you build a boat in BC. They just don't > wear masks. You can still spot them though as they stand behind the counters at marine > stores, marine insurance companies, marinas, or inspect boats etc. Instead of a Winchester > they are holding signs which say "on sale" or "30% off", when in reality the parts or services > were already marked up 100%. > > An interesting story is the relative of mine who bought a Canadian registered boat berthed > in Pt. Roberts, Washington. He changed the registration into his name and sure enough > along comes the PST bill from the BC Gov. He wrote back that the boat was in the US, the > transaction took place in the US, and he wasn't paying. The Gov agreed it wasn't a BC sale > and that was the end of the bill. > > > > > > > > > > -- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "tazmannusa" wrote: > > > > Hello All > > If anyone is interested, I stopped by DMV here in California to see > > what I had to do to get the BS 26 registration and hull number. One > > form to fill out and bring receipts for materials used and they dont > > have to see the boat, doesnt get any easyer than that. Im realy > > suprised theres no inspections. I should have asked them about selling > > it latter on, if there a time limit or not. I will find out > > Tom > > > | 10086|10083|2006-01-09 16:55:47|brentswain38|Re: pilot house retrofit|Ryan You could use galvanized 10 guage. Where are you located? Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, ryan tinsley wrote: > > Happy New Year, > > In seaching for a pilot house design that could be fit to a George Beuhler Juna I have become interested in Brent Swain's work which refreshingly seems to embrace functionality, innovation and simplicity. I plan to construct the house out of 10gu. corten with 3/8 tempered glass windows. I imagine the origami boat building book will provide guidance to the proper scantlings of the pilot house as well as the general layout of the cockpit and hatchway? Just a note, the Juna is not abstract. > > Couriously Yours, Ryan > > > > > --------------------------------- > Yahoo! Photos > Got holiday prints? See all the ways to get quality prints in your hands ASAP. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > | 10087|10068|2006-01-09 17:53:14|Alex Christie|Re: New boat registration|Mickey Olaf mentioned the words "Registered" and "K" number --- just to clarify here, it is "licensing" which produces a provincial K number (eg, 14K 68759 --- a typical number for around here). If you see a K number on a boat, it has simply been provincially "licensed". "Registry" is a federal process and the boat becomes "Canadian", and it is indeed more complicated, costing money to do, compared to provincial licensing). You can usually tell a "registered" boat from a "licensed" one because the number is inside, is all numbers, and typically found carved right into a piece of wood, often on an overhead beam if you've got it, or an affixed plate. It is a very durable form of registration, and essentially makes your boat like a piece of the country you are from (yes, in Canada the queen, or crown a we call it, owns a percentage of your boat to use in times of war, and she can requisition it as she sees fit -- imagine a navy full of Swain hulls charging along full speed ready to attack!). Presumably the federal government would come to your rescue if a foreign country tried to unreasonably seize your "Registered" vessel, being that it is a piece of Canadian federal territory. On a practical level, don't count on any help in far-flung places -- you are generally going to have to count on your wits to get out of pickles. For most practical purposes, the K number will give you some form of identification to hand to the port authority of the place you land in. They just want a number to put in their book, so I am going to stick to "licensing" for my boat. My father's boat was "Registered" federally and caused no end of headaches to sell upon his death because the registration was not complete. It was going to be in limbo forever and I could not sell it, so we simply stripped the number plate out of the boat and made it easy to license instead of register. It was easy because the number was on a plate, not carved into a beam. If in doubt, it is always good to consult a marine lawyer (er, sometimes known as a "shark", heheh) and indicate what your needs are for travel with your boat. Alex| 10088|10083|2006-01-09 18:26:34|ryan tinsley|Re: pilot house retrofit|Brent I am located in Fairbanks, AK and the boat is in San Leon, TX on Galveston Bay. I'm packing up currently and will be moving to TX within the month specifically to work on the boat. The Juna has tender lines and relatively low free board which is great for windage and a easy motion but wet. My main concern in adding weight higher, 16" approx., on a double ender with a 10' 6" beam is that the structure be as light as possible and still adequately strong. The hull is built like a battle ship, very arguably overbuilt for it's size. I would like to apply a different philosophy to the construction of the pilot house and make the cockpit more user friendly. I had not thought of using galvanized 10gu. are there any draw backs besides the obvious fume issue. brentswain38 wrote: Ryan You could use galvanized 10 guage. Where are you located? Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, ryan tinsley wrote: > > Happy New Year, > > In seaching for a pilot house design that could be fit to a George Beuhler Juna I have become interested in Brent Swain's work which refreshingly seems to embrace functionality, innovation and simplicity. I plan to construct the house out of 10gu. corten with 3/8 tempered glass windows. I imagine the origami boat building book will provide guidance to the proper scantlings of the pilot house as well as the general layout of the cockpit and hatchway? Just a note, the Juna is not abstract. > > Couriously Yours, Ryan > > > > > --------------------------------- > Yahoo! Photos > Got holiday prints? See all the ways to get quality prints in your hands ASAP. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com SPONSORED LINKS British columbia canada Vancouver island Yacht --------------------------------- YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. --------------------------------- --------------------------------- Yahoo! DSL Something to write home about. Just $16.99/mo. or less [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]| 10089|10053|2006-01-09 18:28:19|Mia|Re: The Jasmina BS 26' Project|Hi Jim , all well and good , but for the benefit of us female lurkers ,just some thoughts . I follow the posts in here for almost a year as do some other female , usualy content to lurk man's play . I think Admi's project is interesting at minimum. Only a naive man can see Gerd's words as helpfull, that guy is only seeking some attention , dont worry , he will never stop posting , its compulsive :-) Hasta la vista Jim , enjoy , I return to my modest Lurking post :-) Mia --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Jim Baltaxe" wrote: > > Hi Ben > > All well and good, but just for the benefit of us lurkers; what was she on about? All I saw from Gerd was something that looked like well intentioned, constructive comments, certainly nothing warranting the outburst, even though it was later partially withdrawn. Perhaps the reason she's so fast with a rifle is that she shoots from the hip? I certainly wouldn't want to be hunting with her in the neighbourhood. > > Enjoy > > Jim Baltaxe > 8 Knoll Street > Island Bay, Wellington > NEW ZEALAND > +64 (04) 934 1407 > 021 243 5018 > Never fight someone with nothing left to lose. > Klein bottle for rent. Inquire within. > "If we knew what we were doing, it wouldn't be called research, would it?" -- Albert Einstein > > > -----Original Message----- >>>--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Gerd" wrote: >>>I really and simply tried to be helpful. >>>I find it a pity that I am the last person you will ask advice >>>from, but trust me: you will get it anyway. >>This is really self-admitted compulsive advisory behaviour ! >>As self-appointed advisor ,commentator and promotor :-) for more correct info just read the disclaimer and personal at http://www.justmueller.com/boats/ -no qualifications , no adress , no responsability ,just warning really people about the dangers ahead :-) cause as designed , confirmed by more than 3 reputable professionals , no way that boat will pass the EU certification ,Yago simply is designed to stable upside down ( when flipped :-) No serious professional in the EU or farther off will ever endorse that design unless changed to common practice . -Herr Mueller claims it is so easy to do :-) So 'quote' : " Lett him do so or shutt the fuck up :-)" see Gerd :-)>>>I find it a pity that I am the last person you will ask advice from, but trust me: you will get it anyway. >>> that is my best advise to you. Just ask your personal Insurer what his opinion is what will happen to your personal liability if ever an accident occurs . >>>Drop your weapons and relax, ok? ;-) >>> Gerd >>>The Yago Project at http://www.justmueller.com/boats/ >>> >>A woman's saying is : if you can't stand the heat , get out of my >>kitchen . >>Feel free to continue to advise whatever.... >>Could be you can fool some . >> >>Regards. >>Admi >>-The Jasmina BS 26'- Project ( no advise , just sound boats :-) | 10090|10083|2006-01-09 18:32:22|Alex Christie|Re: pilot house retrofit|You could always grind back the galvanizing an inch before welding, and still take adequate fume protection as a backup. The heat of welding will harm the galvanizing near the weld in any case, and you'll be primering and repainting it. Alex On 9-Jan-06, at 3:26 PM, ryan tinsley wrote: > Brent >   I am located in Fairbanks, AK and the boat is in San Leon, TX on > Galveston Bay.  I'm packing up currently and will be moving to TX > within the month specifically to work on the boat. The Juna has tender > lines and relatively low free board which is great for windage and a > easy motion but wet.  My main concern in adding weight higher, 16" > approx., on a double ender with a 10' 6" beam is that the structure be > as light as possible and still adequately strong.  The hull is built > like a battle ship, very arguably overbuilt for it's size.  I would > like to apply a different philosophy to the construction of the pilot > house and make the cockpit more user friendly. I had not thought of > using galvanized 10gu. are there any draw backs besides the obvious > fume issue.   > > brentswain38 wrote: >   Ryan > You could use galvanized 10 guage. > Where are you located? > Brent > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, ryan tinsley > wrote: > > > >     Happy New Year,  > >    > >   In seaching for a pilot house design that could be fit to a > George Beuhler Juna I have become interested  in Brent Swain's work > which refreshingly seems to embrace functionality, innovation and > simplicity.   I plan to construct the house out of 10gu. corten with > 3/8 tempered glass windows.  I imagine the origami boat building book > will provide guidance to the proper scantlings of the pilot house as > well as the general layout of the cockpit and hatchway?  Just a note, > the Juna is not abstract. > >    > >   Couriously Yours, Ryan > > > > > > > >                   > > --------------------------------- > > Yahoo! Photos > >  Got holiday prints? See all the ways to get quality prints in your > hands ASAP. > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > >   SPONSORED LINKS >         British columbia canada   Vancouver island   Yacht >     > --------------------------------- >   YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > >     >     Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web. >     >     To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com >     >     Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > Service. > >     > --------------------------------- >   > >   > > >             > --------------------------------- > Yahoo! DSL Something to write home about. Just $16.99/mo. or less > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > ▪  Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web. >   > ▪  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >  origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com >   > ▪  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > Service. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 10091|10091|2006-01-09 18:42:51|Puck III|Toronto Boatshow|Hi guys , I just would like to know if anybody in here is considering visiting the Toronto Boatshow . Old Ben| 10092|10068|2006-01-09 18:52:28|Michael Casling|Re: New boat registration for the queen|If the Queen or any of her relatives come to BC and try to lay claim to any part of my boat, I will push them in the puddle. Latter I will set aunt Hilda on them, and that is something they will never forget. Michael ----- Original Message ----- From: jericoera To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, January 09, 2006 12:20 PM Subject: [origamiboats] Re: New boat registration for the queen Be advised that if you register your boat in Canada, you are being good enough to give one third of it to the queen though I don't believe any private vessels have been comondeered by the royals since WWII. Just so you know you will no longer be the sole owner. Having said that, if you end up in US waters heading for Cuba and they decide to seize your boat under the Patriot Act, I would expect having the queen as a third owner in your boat may save you some seizure headaches as I doubt they would as easily seize Crown property. Just a thought. Carl mcIntosh --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "mickeyolaf" wrote: > > When I registered my boat in BC there were no fees. I wasn't made to even prove the boat > existed. I filled out the forms, put a value on it, paid no fees (at the time) and received a K > number. > > The fee's came later when I received a bill from the Provincial Gov for Provincial sales tax. > (PST had not been paid on my boat's materials at the time of purchase). If you have > already paid PST on all of the parts, and you can prove it, and they believe you, you could > say so on the bill, mail it back to them and see if it flys with the Provincial pirates. A buddy > of mine who built a catamaran wrote on the bill "homemade boat, PST paid on all > materials" and sent it back. He never heard again from them. > > My insurance company sent me a registered letter stating that before my boat is splashed > it must be inspected for proper construction techniques and seaworthiness. I have to pay > for the inspection and they choose the inspector. $400.00 cost to me. > > So in reality if you want to register and insure your boat, if you are honest about it's value > and what taxes have or have not been paid and you buy insurance it is very expensive in > BC. > There are a lot of highwaymen along the road when you build a boat in BC. They just don't > wear masks. You can still spot them though as they stand behind the counters at marine > stores, marine insurance companies, marinas, or inspect boats etc. Instead of a Winchester > they are holding signs which say "on sale" or "30% off", when in reality the parts or services > were already marked up 100%. > > An interesting story is the relative of mine who bought a Canadian registered boat berthed > in Pt. Roberts, Washington. He changed the registration into his name and sure enough > along comes the PST bill from the BC Gov. He wrote back that the boat was in the US, the > transaction took place in the US, and he wasn't paying. The Gov agreed it wasn't a BC sale > and that was the end of the bill. > > > > > > > > > > -- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "tazmannusa" wrote: > > > > Hello All > > If anyone is interested, I stopped by DMV here in California to see > > what I had to do to get the BS 26 registration and hull number. One > > form to fill out and bring receipts for materials used and they dont > > have to see the boat, doesnt get any easyer than that. Im realy > > suprised theres no inspections. I should have asked them about selling > > it latter on, if there a time limit or not. I will find out > > Tom > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS a.. Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web. b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 10093|10068|2006-01-09 19:24:36|mickeyolaf|Re: New boat registration for the queen|So here is the question of the day! It's said that you're not a real man until you've given away a house, a car, your boat and half your pension to an ex wife. So if half of your boat went to the ex and a third of the remaining half goes to the Queen and you licence what's remaining minus 7.25% PST what do you have left? --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Michael Casling wrote: > > If the Queen or any of her relatives come to BC and try to lay claim to any part of my boat, I will push them in the puddle. > Latter I will set aunt Hilda on them, and that is something they will never forget. > > Michael > ----- Original Message ----- > From: jericoera > To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Monday, January 09, 2006 12:20 PM > Subject: [origamiboats] Re: New boat registration for the queen > > > Be advised that if you register your boat in Canada, you are being > good enough to give one third of it to the queen though I don't > believe any private vessels have been comondeered by the royals > since WWII. > > Just so you know you will no longer be the sole owner. Having said > that, if you end up in US waters heading for Cuba and they decide to > seize your boat under the Patriot Act, I would expect having the > queen as a third owner in your boat may save you some seizure > headaches as I doubt they would as easily seize Crown property. > > Just a thought. > > Carl mcIntosh > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "mickeyolaf" > wrote: > > > > When I registered my boat in BC there were no fees. I wasn't made > to even prove the boat > > existed. I filled out the forms, put a value on it, paid no fees > (at the time) and received a K > > number. > > > > The fee's came later when I received a bill from the Provincial > Gov for Provincial sales tax. > > (PST had not been paid on my boat's materials at the time of > purchase). If you have > > already paid PST on all of the parts, and you can prove it, and > they believe you, you could > > say so on the bill, mail it back to them and see if it flys with > the Provincial pirates. A buddy > > of mine who built a catamaran wrote on the bill "homemade boat, > PST paid on all > > materials" and sent it back. He never heard again from them. > > > > My insurance company sent me a registered letter stating that > before my boat is splashed > > it must be inspected for proper construction techniques and > seaworthiness. I have to pay > > for the inspection and they choose the inspector. $400.00 cost to > me. > > > > So in reality if you want to register and insure your boat, if you > are honest about it's value > > and what taxes have or have not been paid and you buy insurance it > is very expensive in > > BC. > > There are a lot of highwaymen along the road when you build a boat > in BC. They just don't > > wear masks. You can still spot them though as they stand behind > the counters at marine > > stores, marine insurance companies, marinas, or inspect boats etc. > Instead of a Winchester > > they are holding signs which say "on sale" or "30% off", when in > reality the parts or services > > were already marked up 100%. > > > > An interesting story is the relative of mine who bought a Canadian > registered boat berthed > > in Pt. Roberts, Washington. He changed the registration into his > name and sure enough > > along comes the PST bill from the BC Gov. He wrote back that the > boat was in the US, the > > transaction took place in the US, and he wasn't paying. The Gov > agreed it wasn't a BC sale > > and that was the end of the bill. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "tazmannusa" > wrote: > > > > > > Hello All > > > If anyone is interested, I stopped by DMV here in California to > see > > > what I had to do to get the BS 26 registration and hull number. > One > > > form to fill out and bring receipts for materials used and they > dont > > > have to see the boat, doesnt get any easyer than that. Im realy > > > suprised theres no inspections. I should have asked them about > selling > > > it latter on, if there a time limit or not. I will find out > > > Tom > > > > > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats- unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------- > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > a.. Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web. > > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------- > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > | 10094|10068|2006-01-09 19:33:14|Puck III|Re: New boat registration for the queen|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "jericoera" wrote: > > Be advised that if you register your boat in Canada, you are being > good enough to give one third of it to the queen though I don't > believe any private vessels have been comondeered by the royals > since WWII. > > Just so you know you will no longer be the sole owner. Having said > that, if you end up in US waters heading for Cuba and they decide to > seize your boat under the Patriot Act, I would expect having the > queen as a third owner in your boat may save you some seizure > headaches as I doubt they would as easily seize Crown property. > > Just a thought. > > Carl mcIntosh Carl , you have me worried . Is this a Joke or correct ? Suppose I am in Florida on a EU sailingboat . Could I be seized if I want to sail to Cuba ? Or is the Cuban embargo only for US cityzens and ships ? Last time I was in Marina Hemingway Cuba , many Canadians seemed extreemly happy in Cuba . Some US sailboats visited . We were invited on board for drinks and returned the invitation , realy nice people . They explained to me , they where not allowed to spent any money in Cuba , nothing more . You have me worried a bit . I also read Brent's advise to sail directly from Canada to Mexico , he must have his reasons . I hope that those who know better inform us that know nothing much : better smart than sorry :-) Thanks in advance. Old Ben| 10095|10068|2006-01-09 19:37:12|Michael Casling|Re: New boat registration for the queen|Real men keep the boat. 1/2 of everything is BC law, regarding separation, you have to give something else of equal value, but keep the boat. Michael ----- Original Message ----- From: mickeyolaf To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, January 09, 2006 4:24 PM Subject: [origamiboats] Re: New boat registration for the queen So here is the question of the day! It's said that you're not a real man until you've given away a house, a car, your boat and half your pension to an ex wife. So if half of your boat went to the ex and a third of the remaining half goes to the Queen and you licence what's remaining minus 7.25% PST what do you have left? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 10096|10068|2006-01-09 19:54:21|Gary H. Lucas|Re: New boat registration for the queen|Regrets? Gary H. Lucas ----- Original Message ----- From: "mickeyolaf" To: Sent: Monday, January 09, 2006 7:24 PM Subject: [origamiboats] Re: New boat registration for the queen > So here is the question of the day! > It's said that you're not a real man until you've given away a > house, a car, your boat and half your pension to an ex wife. So if > half of your boat went to the ex and a third of the remaining half > goes to the Queen and you licence what's remaining minus 7.25% PST > what do you have left? > > > > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Michael Casling > wrote: >> >> If the Queen or any of her relatives come to BC and try to lay > claim to any part of my boat, I will push them in the puddle. >> Latter I will set aunt Hilda on them, and that is something they > will never forget. >> >> Michael >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: jericoera >> To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com >> Sent: Monday, January 09, 2006 12:20 PM >> Subject: [origamiboats] Re: New boat registration for the queen >> >> >> Be advised that if you register your boat in Canada, you are > being >> good enough to give one third of it to the queen though I don't >> believe any private vessels have been comondeered by the royals >> since WWII. >> >> Just so you know you will no longer be the sole owner. Having > said >> that, if you end up in US waters heading for Cuba and they > decide to >> seize your boat under the Patriot Act, I would expect having the >> queen as a third owner in your boat may save you some seizure >> headaches as I doubt they would as easily seize Crown property. >> >> Just a thought. >> >> Carl mcIntosh >> >> --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "mickeyolaf" > >> wrote: >> > >> > When I registered my boat in BC there were no fees. I wasn't > made >> to even prove the boat >> > existed. I filled out the forms, put a value on it, paid no > fees >> (at the time) and received a K >> > number. >> > >> > The fee's came later when I received a bill from the > Provincial >> Gov for Provincial sales tax. >> > (PST had not been paid on my boat's materials at the time of >> purchase). If you have >> > already paid PST on all of the parts, and you can prove it, > and >> they believe you, you could >> > say so on the bill, mail it back to them and see if it flys > with >> the Provincial pirates. A buddy >> > of mine who built a catamaran wrote on the bill "homemade > boat, >> PST paid on all >> > materials" and sent it back. He never heard again from them. >> > >> > My insurance company sent me a registered letter stating that >> before my boat is splashed >> > it must be inspected for proper construction techniques and >> seaworthiness. I have to pay >> > for the inspection and they choose the inspector. $400.00 cost > to >> me. >> > >> > So in reality if you want to register and insure your boat, if > you >> are honest about it's value >> > and what taxes have or have not been paid and you buy > insurance it >> is very expensive in >> > BC. >> > There are a lot of highwaymen along the road when you build a > boat >> in BC. They just don't >> > wear masks. You can still spot them though as they stand > behind >> the counters at marine >> > stores, marine insurance companies, marinas, or inspect boats > etc. >> Instead of a Winchester >> > they are holding signs which say "on sale" or "30% off", when > in >> reality the parts or services >> > were already marked up 100%. >> > >> > An interesting story is the relative of mine who bought a > Canadian >> registered boat berthed >> > in Pt. Roberts, Washington. He changed the registration into > his >> name and sure enough >> > along comes the PST bill from the BC Gov. He wrote back that > the >> boat was in the US, the >> > transaction took place in the US, and he wasn't paying. The > Gov >> agreed it wasn't a BC sale >> > and that was the end of the bill. >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > -- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "tazmannusa" > >> wrote: >> > > >> > > Hello All >> > > If anyone is interested, I stopped by DMV here in > California to >> see >> > > what I had to do to get the BS 26 registration and hull > number. >> One >> > > form to fill out and bring receipts for materials used and > they >> dont >> > > have to see the boat, doesnt get any easyer than that. Im > realy >> > > suprised theres no inspections. I should have asked them > about >> selling >> > > it latter on, if there a time limit or not. I will find out >> > > Tom >> > > >> > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com >> To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats- > unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com >> >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------- > ----------- >> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS >> >> a.. Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web. >> >> b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >> origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com >> >> c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms > of Service. >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------- > ----------- >> >> >> >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >> > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > | 10097|10053|2006-01-09 20:43:57|Wesley Cox|Re: The Jasmina BS 26' Project|Gerd, I must say you *really* have a way with the ladies. What's your secret? This makes 2 votes for you being compulsive. There seems to be a pattern Mia wrote: >Hi Jim , all well and good , >but for the benefit of us female lurkers ,just some thoughts . > >I follow the posts in here for almost a year as >do some other female , usualy content to lurk man's play . > >I think Admi's project is interesting at minimum. >Only a naive man can see Gerd's words as helpfull, >that guy is only seeking some attention , >dont worry , he will never stop posting , >its compulsive :-) > >Hasta la vista Jim , >enjoy , I return to my modest Lurking post :-) > >Mia > >--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Jim Baltaxe" >wrote: > > >>Hi Ben >> >>All well and good, but just for the benefit of us lurkers; what was >> >> >she on about? All I saw from Gerd was something that looked like well >intentioned, constructive comments, certainly nothing warranting the >outburst, even though it was later partially withdrawn. Perhaps the >reason she's so fast with a rifle is that she shoots from the hip? I >certainly wouldn't want to be hunting with her in the neighbourhood. > > >>Enjoy >> >>Jim Baltaxe >>8 Knoll Street >>Island Bay, Wellington >>NEW ZEALAND >>+64 (04) 934 1407 >>021 243 5018 >>Never fight someone with nothing left to lose. >>Klein bottle for rent. Inquire within. >>"If we knew what we were doing, it wouldn't be called research, >> >> >would it?" -- Albert Einstein > > >>-----Original Message----- >> >> >>>>--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Gerd" wrote: >>>> >>>> > > > >>>>I really and simply tried to be helpful. >>>>I find it a pity that I am the last person you will ask advice >>>>from, but trust me: you will get it anyway. >>>> >>>> > > > > >>>This is really self-admitted compulsive advisory behaviour ! >>>As self-appointed advisor ,commentator and promotor :-) >>> >>> > >for more correct info just read the disclaimer and personal >at http://www.justmueller.com/boats/ >-no qualifications , no adress , no responsability ,just > warning really people about the dangers ahead :-) > cause as designed , confirmed by more than 3 reputable > professionals , no way that boat will pass the > EU certification ,Yago simply is designed to stable > upside down ( when flipped :-) > No serious professional in the EU or farther off will > ever endorse that design unless changed to common practice . >-Herr Mueller claims it is so easy to do :-) > >So 'quote' : " Lett him do so or shutt the fuck up :-)" > >see Gerd :-)>>>I find it a pity that I am the last person you will >ask advice from, but trust me: you will get it anyway. >>> >that is my best advise to you. > >Just ask your personal Insurer what his opinion is >what will happen to your personal liability if ever >an accident occurs . > > > >>>>Drop your weapons and relax, ok? ;-) >>>>Gerd >>>>The Yago Project at http://www.justmueller.com/boats/ >>>> >>>> >>>> > > > >>>A woman's saying is : if you can't stand the heat , get out of my >>>kitchen . >>>Feel free to continue to advise whatever.... >>>Could be you can fool some . >>> >>>Regards. >>>Admi >>>-The Jasmina BS 26'- Project ( no advise , just sound boats :-) >>> >>> > > > > > > > > >To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com >To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > | 10098|10083|2006-01-09 20:53:21|kingsknight4life|Re: pilot house retrofit|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, ryan tinsley wrote: > > Happy New Year, > > In seaching for a pilot house design that could be fit to a George Beuhler Juna I have become interested ......> > Couriously Yours, Ryan > Ryan Have you bought the boat already? The reason I ask, is that I recenty stumbled across a Juna for sale on the internet and it already has a pilothouse. It is also located in Comox, on Vancouver Island which is a lot closer to you than Texas is. Here's a link members.shaw.ca/eos2. Good luck in your search. Rowland| 10099|10068|2006-01-09 21:11:33|Wesley Cox|Re: New boat registration for the queen|I don't want to get much into US politics because it is currently at the same time boring and scary (and off-topic). The new McCarthyism is a phrase I've used myself many times in the last 5 years. Suffice it to say that I don't discuss politics in any detail with anyone I don't know *very* well anymore for fear of back lash, physical, financial or otherwise against my family. I don't see it as a dire situation so long as I don't talk politics with strangers, but it is real. US citizens are being encouraged to label others as unpatriotic if they are not in step with the president's policies. We're also encouraged to report our neighbors to the new dept. of homeland security for "suspicious" activity. I'm all for stopping terrorists, of course, but if my neighbor the truck driver gets back from a frustrating haul and wants to dig a hole in his yard and fill it in 20 times to relieve tension, he shouldn't have to be worried that busy-body-Ethel across the street is going to sick the men in black on him. I never imagined people would forget McCarthy and what he did, but here we are. The text of the Patriot Act is (or used to be) available online. It isn't much of a stretch to say that it allows the US government to do anything so long as it declares it to be in the name of fighting terrorism. Case law thus far has shown courts are unwilling to put any limits on the power of the federal government. What would happen if several hundred US men were openly held at an island prison for 4 years in violation of several accords of the Geneva Convention and the captors justified it because they labeled the men "enemy combatants"? (The island is Cuba) Sorry if I went too far off topic. Old Ben expressed a concern and asked for opinions. Puck III wrote: >--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "jericoera" wrote: > > >>Be advised that if you register your boat in Canada, you are being >>good enough to give one third of it to the queen though I don't >>believe any private vessels have been comondeered by the royals >>since WWII. >> >>Just so you know you will no longer be the sole owner. Having said >>that, if you end up in US waters heading for Cuba and they decide to >>seize your boat under the Patriot Act, I would expect having the >>queen as a third owner in your boat may save you some seizure >>headaches as I doubt they would as easily seize Crown property. >> >>Just a thought. >> >>Carl mcIntosh >> >> > >Carl , you have me worried . Is this a Joke or correct ? >Suppose I am in Florida on a EU sailingboat . >Could I be seized if I want to sail to Cuba ? >Or is the Cuban embargo only for US cityzens and ships ? > >Last time I was in Marina Hemingway Cuba , >many Canadians seemed extreemly happy in Cuba . >Some US sailboats visited . >We were invited on board for drinks and returned the >invitation , realy nice people . >They explained to me , they where not allowed to spent >any money in Cuba , nothing more . >You have me worried a bit . >I also read Brent's advise to sail directly from >Canada to Mexico , he must have his reasons . >I hope that those who know better inform us that >know nothing much : better smart than sorry :-) >Thanks in advance. > >Old Ben > > > > > > > >To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com >To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > | 10100|10100|2006-01-09 21:14:46|kingsknight4life|Wood stoves on board?|Hi everyone. Just a couple of quick questions. I'm getting close to finalizing the layout inside our BS 36. We will most likely be putting in a woodstove, the questions are; How much clearance do I need around the stove so my interior doesn't become heat damaged or fuel? Is motoring or saiiling with the wood stove burning going to flood my cockpit whith smoke? Any other wood stove hints or tips appreciated as well. Thanks Rowland| 10101|10068|2006-01-09 21:24:13|mickeyolaf|Re: New boat registration for the queen|I was just kidding. --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Gary H. Lucas" wrote: > > Regrets? > > Gary H. Lucas > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "mickeyolaf" > To: > Sent: Monday, January 09, 2006 7:24 PM > Subject: [origamiboats] Re: New boat registration for the queen > > > > So here is the question of the day! > > It's said that you're not a real man until you've given away a > > house, a car, your boat and half your pension to an ex wife. So if > > half of your boat went to the ex and a third of the remaining half > > goes to the Queen and you licence what's remaining minus 7.25% PST > > what do you have left? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Michael Casling > > wrote: > >> > >> If the Queen or any of her relatives come to BC and try to lay > > claim to any part of my boat, I will push them in the puddle. > >> Latter I will set aunt Hilda on them, and that is something they > > will never forget. > >> > >> Michael > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: jericoera > >> To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > >> Sent: Monday, January 09, 2006 12:20 PM > >> Subject: [origamiboats] Re: New boat registration for the queen > >> > >> > >> Be advised that if you register your boat in Canada, you are > > being > >> good enough to give one third of it to the queen though I don't > >> believe any private vessels have been comondeered by the royals > >> since WWII. > >> > >> Just so you know you will no longer be the sole owner. Having > > said > >> that, if you end up in US waters heading for Cuba and they > > decide to > >> seize your boat under the Patriot Act, I would expect having the > >> queen as a third owner in your boat may save you some seizure > >> headaches as I doubt they would as easily seize Crown property. > >> > >> Just a thought. > >> > >> Carl mcIntosh > >> > >> --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "mickeyolaf" > > > >> wrote: > >> > > >> > When I registered my boat in BC there were no fees. I wasn't > > made > >> to even prove the boat > >> > existed. I filled out the forms, put a value on it, paid no > > fees > >> (at the time) and received a K > >> > number. > >> > > >> > The fee's came later when I received a bill from the > > Provincial > >> Gov for Provincial sales tax. > >> > (PST had not been paid on my boat's materials at the time of > >> purchase). If you have > >> > already paid PST on all of the parts, and you can prove it, > > and > >> they believe you, you could > >> > say so on the bill, mail it back to them and see if it flys > > with > >> the Provincial pirates. A buddy > >> > of mine who built a catamaran wrote on the bill "homemade > > boat, > >> PST paid on all > >> > materials" and sent it back. He never heard again from them. > >> > > >> > My insurance company sent me a registered letter stating that > >> before my boat is splashed > >> > it must be inspected for proper construction techniques and > >> seaworthiness. I have to pay > >> > for the inspection and they choose the inspector. $400.00 cost > > to > >> me. > >> > > >> > So in reality if you want to register and insure your boat, if > > you > >> are honest about it's value > >> > and what taxes have or have not been paid and you buy > > insurance it > >> is very expensive in > >> > BC. > >> > There are a lot of highwaymen along the road when you build a > > boat > >> in BC. They just don't > >> > wear masks. You can still spot them though as they stand > > behind > >> the counters at marine > >> > stores, marine insurance companies, marinas, or inspect boats > > etc. > >> Instead of a Winchester > >> > they are holding signs which say "on sale" or "30% off", when > > in > >> reality the parts or services > >> > were already marked up 100%. > >> > > >> > An interesting story is the relative of mine who bought a > > Canadian > >> registered boat berthed > >> > in Pt. Roberts, Washington. He changed the registration into > > his > >> name and sure enough > >> > along comes the PST bill from the BC Gov. He wrote back that > > the > >> boat was in the US, the > >> > transaction took place in the US, and he wasn't paying. The > > Gov > >> agreed it wasn't a BC sale > >> > and that was the end of the bill. > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > -- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "tazmannusa" > > > >> wrote: > >> > > > >> > > Hello All > >> > > If anyone is interested, I stopped by DMV here in > > California to > >> see > >> > > what I had to do to get the BS 26 registration and hull > > number. > >> One > >> > > form to fill out and bring receipts for materials used and > > they > >> dont > >> > > have to see the boat, doesnt get any easyer than that. Im > > realy > >> > > suprised theres no inspections. I should have asked them > > about > >> selling > >> > > it latter on, if there a time limit or not. I will find out > >> > > Tom > >> > > > >> > > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > >> To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats- > > unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > >> > >> > >> > >> ------------------------------------------------------------------- > > ----------- > >> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > >> > >> a.. Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web. > >> > >> b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > >> origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > >> > >> c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms > > of Service. > >> > >> > >> ------------------------------------------------------------------- > > ----------- > >> > >> > >> > >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > | 10102|10068|2006-01-09 21:27:35|Puck III|Re: New boat registration for the queen|Thanks Wesley , much appreciated . Better smart than sorry indeed . Old Ben --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Wesley Cox wrote: > > I don't want to get much into US politics because it is currently at the > same time boring and scary (and off-topic). The new McCarthyism is a > phrase I've used myself many times in the last 5 years. Suffice it to > say that I don't discuss politics in any detail with anyone I don't know > *very* well anymore for fear of back lash, physical, financial or > otherwise against my family. I don't see it as a dire situation so long > as I don't talk politics with strangers, but it is real. US citizens > are being encouraged to label others as unpatriotic if they are not in > step with the president's policies. We're also encouraged to report our > neighbors to the new dept. of homeland security for "suspicious" > activity. I'm all for stopping terrorists, of course, but if my > neighbor the truck driver gets back from a frustrating haul and wants to > dig a hole in his yard and fill it in 20 times to relieve tension, he > shouldn't have to be worried that busy-body-Ethel across the street is > going to sick the men in black on him. I never imagined people would > forget McCarthy and what he did, but here we are. > > The text of the Patriot Act is (or used to be) available online. It > isn't much of a stretch to say that it allows the US government to do > anything so long as it declares it to be in the name of fighting > terrorism. Case law thus far has shown courts are unwilling to put any > limits on the power of the federal government. What would happen if > several hundred US men were openly held at an island prison for 4 years > in violation of several accords of the Geneva Convention and the captors > justified it because they labeled the men "enemy combatants"? (The > island is Cuba) > > Sorry if I went too far off topic. Old Ben expressed a concern and > asked for opinions. > > > Puck III wrote: > > >--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "jericoera" wrote: > > > > > >>Be advised that if you register your boat in Canada, you are being > >>good enough to give one third of it to the queen though I don't > >>believe any private vessels have been comondeered by the royals > >>since WWII. > >> > >>Just so you know you will no longer be the sole owner. Having said > >>that, if you end up in US waters heading for Cuba and they decide to > >>seize your boat under the Patriot Act, I would expect having the > >>queen as a third owner in your boat may save you some seizure > >>headaches as I doubt they would as easily seize Crown property. > >> > >>Just a thought. > >> > >>Carl mcIntosh > >> > >> > > > >Carl , you have me worried . Is this a Joke or correct ? > >Suppose I am in Florida on a EU sailingboat . > >Could I be seized if I want to sail to Cuba ? > >Or is the Cuban embargo only for US cityzens and ships ? > > > >Last time I was in Marina Hemingway Cuba , > >many Canadians seemed extreemly happy in Cuba . > >Some US sailboats visited . > >We were invited on board for drinks and returned the > >invitation , realy nice people . > >They explained to me , they where not allowed to spent > >any money in Cuba , nothing more . > >You have me worried a bit . > >I also read Brent's advise to sail directly from > >Canada to Mexico , he must have his reasons . > >I hope that those who know better inform us that > >know nothing much : better smart than sorry :-) > >Thanks in advance. > > > >Old Ben > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > >To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats- unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > | 10103|10068|2006-01-09 21:32:14|Wesley Cox|Re: New boat registration for the queen|I think he was answering your tongue-in-cheek Q, as in you're left with "regrets". :) mickeyolaf wrote: >I was just kidding. > > > > >--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Gary H. Lucas" wrote: > > >>Regrets? >> >>Gary H. Lucas >> >>----- Original Message ----- >>From: "mickeyolaf" >>To: >>Sent: Monday, January 09, 2006 7:24 PM >>Subject: [origamiboats] Re: New boat registration for the queen >> >> >> >> >>>So here is the question of the day! >>>It's said that you're not a real man until you've given away a >>>house, a car, your boat and half your pension to an ex wife. So if >>>half of your boat went to the ex and a third of the remaining half >>>goes to the Queen and you licence what's remaining minus 7.25% PST >>>what do you have left? >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Michael Casling >>>wrote: >>> >>> >>>>If the Queen or any of her relatives come to BC and try to lay >>>> >>>> >>>claim to any part of my boat, I will push them in the puddle. >>> >>> >>>>Latter I will set aunt Hilda on them, and that is something they >>>> >>>> >>>will never forget. >>> >>> >>>>Michael >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: jericoera >>>> To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com >>>> Sent: Monday, January 09, 2006 12:20 PM >>>> Subject: [origamiboats] Re: New boat registration for the queen >>>> >>>> >>>> Be advised that if you register your boat in Canada, you are >>>> >>>> >>>being >>> >>> >>>> good enough to give one third of it to the queen though I don't >>>> believe any private vessels have been comondeered by the royals >>>> since WWII. >>>> >>>> Just so you know you will no longer be the sole owner. Having >>>> >>>> >>>said >>> >>> >>>> that, if you end up in US waters heading for Cuba and they >>>> >>>> >>>decide to >>> >>> >>>> seize your boat under the Patriot Act, I would expect having the >>>> queen as a third owner in your boat may save you some seizure >>>> headaches as I doubt they would as easily seize Crown property. >>>> >>>> Just a thought. >>>> >>>> Carl mcIntosh >>>> >>>> --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "mickeyolaf" >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>>> wrote: >>>> > >>>> > When I registered my boat in BC there were no fees. I wasn't >>>> >>>> >>>made >>> >>> >>>> to even prove the boat >>>> > existed. I filled out the forms, put a value on it, paid no >>>> >>>> >>>fees >>> >>> >>>> (at the time) and received a K >>>> > number. >>>> > >>>> > The fee's came later when I received a bill from the >>>> >>>> >>>Provincial >>> >>> >>>> Gov for Provincial sales tax. >>>> > (PST had not been paid on my boat's materials at the time of >>>> purchase). If you have >>>> > already paid PST on all of the parts, and you can prove it, >>>> >>>> >>>and >>> >>> >>>> they believe you, you could >>>> > say so on the bill, mail it back to them and see if it flys >>>> >>>> >>>with >>> >>> >>>> the Provincial pirates. A buddy >>>> > of mine who built a catamaran wrote on the bill "homemade >>>> >>>> >>>boat, >>> >>> >>>> PST paid on all >>>> > materials" and sent it back. He never heard again from them. >>>> > >>>> > My insurance company sent me a registered letter stating that >>>> before my boat is splashed >>>> > it must be inspected for proper construction techniques and >>>> seaworthiness. I have to pay >>>> > for the inspection and they choose the inspector. $400.00 cost >>>> >>>> >>>to >>> >>> >>>> me. >>>> > >>>> > So in reality if you want to register and insure your boat, if >>>> >>>> >>>you >>> >>> >>>> are honest about it's value >>>> > and what taxes have or have not been paid and you buy >>>> >>>> >>>insurance it >>> >>> >>>> is very expensive in >>>> > BC. >>>> > There are a lot of highwaymen along the road when you build a >>>> >>>> >>>boat >>> >>> >>>> in BC. They just don't >>>> > wear masks. You can still spot them though as they stand >>>> >>>> >>>behind >>> >>> >>>> the counters at marine >>>> > stores, marine insurance companies, marinas, or inspect boats >>>> >>>> >>>etc. >>> >>> >>>> Instead of a Winchester >>>> > they are holding signs which say "on sale" or "30% off", when >>>> >>>> >>>in >>> >>> >>>> reality the parts or services >>>> > were already marked up 100%. >>>> > >>>> > An interesting story is the relative of mine who bought a >>>> >>>> >>>Canadian >>> >>> >>>> registered boat berthed >>>> > in Pt. Roberts, Washington. He changed the registration into >>>> >>>> >>>his >>> >>> >>>> name and sure enough >>>> > along comes the PST bill from the BC Gov. He wrote back that >>>> >>>> >>>the >>> >>> >>>> boat was in the US, the >>>> > transaction took place in the US, and he wasn't paying. The >>>> >>>> >>>Gov >>> >>> >>>> agreed it wasn't a BC sale >>>> > and that was the end of the bill. >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > -- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "tazmannusa" >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>>> wrote: >>>> > > >>>> > > Hello All >>>> > > If anyone is interested, I stopped by DMV here in >>>> >>>> >>>California to >>> >>> >>>> see >>>> > > what I had to do to get the BS 26 registration and hull >>>> >>>> >>>number. >>> >>> >>>> One >>>> > > form to fill out and bring receipts for materials used and >>>> >>>> >>>they >>> >>> >>>> dont >>>> > > have to see the boat, doesnt get any easyer than that. Im >>>> >>>> >>>realy >>> >>> >>>> > > suprised theres no inspections. I should have asked them >>>> >>>> >>>about >>> >>> >>>> selling >>>> > > it latter on, if there a time limit or not. I will find out >>>> > > Tom >>>> > > >>>> > >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com >>>> To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats- >>>> >>>> >>>unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com >>> >>> >>>> >>>>------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> >>>> >>>----------- >>> >>> >>>> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS >>>> >>>> a.. Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web. >>>> >>>> b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >>>> origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com >>>> >>>> c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms >>>> >>>> >>>of Service. >>> >>> >>>>------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> >>>> >>>----------- >>> >>> >>>> >>>>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com >>>To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: >>>origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com >>>Yahoo! Groups Links >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> > > > > > > > >To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com >To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > | 10104|10100|2006-01-09 21:58:33|Puck III|Re: Wood stoves on board?|Hi Rowland , --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "kingsknight4life" wrote: > > Hi everyone. > Just a couple of quick questions. I'm getting close to finalizing the > layout inside our BS 36. We will most likely be putting in a > woodstove, the questions are; How much clearance do I need around the > stove so my interior doesn't become heat damaged or fuel? If well insulated you do not need much space . Some space is helpfull for aircirculation around the stove , this helps heating the air faster . The chimney inside the boat gives much heat , I installed the chimney in a larger tube with a lot of holes , not to burn myself touching the hot chimney . This tube became a much used fast dryer for anything , a towel or cold hands :-) The most inportant feature is to have the top of your stove free or at least with a strong adapted grill above it , cause that is where the heat may not be stored , a retainer for a kettle sure is interesting to think of , even to distribute some humidity when the air becomes to dry . Is motoring > or saiiling with the wood stove burning going to flood my cockpit > whith smoke? Any other wood stove hints or tips appreciated as well. > Thanks > Rowland The fumes will go in an apparent wind direction , you can predict where it will go approximatively using the same assumptions as when estimating the drift of your boat over the ground but this time you estimate the drift of the fumes :-) Wind from astern similar to your boatspeed and the fumes stay with you , wind straight ahead usualy can be avoided when motoring by alternating your direction a bit . I use a dieselstove , at sea or in the harbor my problems start at 7 on the beaufort scale . A neighbour has no problem at all cause he uses a special type of chimney extension top. that reduces the wind influx and rather create a vacuum . I will post a pic from that storm chimney top if I find one , I could not locate one with the correct diameter for myself yet. All other pics : tinyurl.com/3opkk or via the Links in my Yahoo profile Hoping this helps Old Ben > | 10105|10100|2006-01-09 22:03:29|Puck III|Re: Wood stoves on board?|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III" wrote: > > Hi Rowland ,hoping to post the Link correctly this time > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "kingsknight4life" > wrote: > > > > Hi everyone. > > Just a couple of quick questions. I'm getting close to finalizing the > > layout inside our BS 36. We will most likely be putting in a > > woodstove, the questions are; How much clearance do I need around the > > stove so my interior doesn't become heat damaged or fuel? > > If well insulated you do not need much space . > Some space is helpfull for aircirculation around > the stove , this helps heating the air faster . > The chimney inside the boat gives much heat , > I installed the chimney in a larger tube with > a lot of holes , not to burn myself touching > the hot chimney . This tube became a much used > fast dryer for anything , a towel or cold hands :-) > The most inportant feature is to have the top of > your stove free or at least with a strong adapted > grill above it , cause that is where the heat may > not be stored , a retainer for a kettle sure is > interesting to think of , even to distribute some > humidity when the air becomes to dry . > > Is motoring > > or saiiling with the wood stove burning going to flood my cockpit > > whith smoke? Any other wood stove hints or tips appreciated as well. > > Thanks > > Rowland > > The fumes will go in an apparent wind direction , > you can predict where it will go approximatively > using the same assumptions as when estimating > the drift of your boat over the ground but > this time you estimate the drift of the fumes :-) > > Wind from astern similar to your boatspeed and > the fumes stay with you , > wind straight ahead usualy can be avoided when > motoring by alternating your direction a bit . > > I use a dieselstove , at sea or in the harbor > my problems start at 7 on the beaufort scale . > > A neighbour has no problem at all cause he > uses a special type of chimney extension top. > that reduces the wind influx and rather create > a vacuum . I will post a pic from that storm > chimney top if I find one , I could not locate > one with the correct diameter for myself yet. > All other pics : http://tinyurl.com/3opkk > or via the Links in my Yahoo profile > > Hoping this helps > Old Ben > > > > | 10106|10053|2006-01-09 22:31:50|Puck III|Re: The Jasmina BS 26' Project|Hi Jim , I realy wonder what this one is on about . She apparently want's Gerd to do something or show us something with more details..... > >So 'quote' : " Lett him do so or shutt the fuck up :-)" Ja Ja : Woman can be dangerous , times change : half the boat for an ex-wife , half of the remaining half for the queen... What am I gone be left with ??? With no other option than looking for a woman with a boat:-) EU certified or not ? I dont realy care ! As long as she is a swell gall:-) Always feeling young Ben . --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Wesley Cox wrote: > > Gerd, I must say you *really* have a way with the ladies. What's your > secret? > This makes 2 votes for you being compulsive. There seems to be a pattern > > Mia wrote: > > >Hi Jim , all well and good , > >but for the benefit of us female lurkers ,just some thoughts . > > > >I follow the posts in here for almost a year as > >do some other female , usualy content to lurk man's play . > > > >I think Admi's project is interesting at minimum. > >Only a naive man can see Gerd's words as helpfull, > >that guy is only seeking some attention , > >dont worry , he will never stop posting , > >its compulsive :-) > > > >Hasta la vista Jim , > >enjoy , I return to my modest Lurking post :-) > > > >Mia > > > >--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Jim Baltaxe" > >wrote: > > > > > >>Hi Ben > >> > >>All well and good, but just for the benefit of us lurkers; what was > >> > >> > >she on about? All I saw from Gerd was something that looked like well > >intentioned, constructive comments, certainly nothing warranting the > >outburst, even though it was later partially withdrawn. Perhaps the > >reason she's so fast with a rifle is that she shoots from the hip? I > >certainly wouldn't want to be hunting with her in the neighbourhood. > > > > > >>Enjoy > >> > >>Jim Baltaxe > >>8 Knoll Street > >>Island Bay, Wellington > >>NEW ZEALAND > >>+64 (04) 934 1407 > >>021 243 5018 > >>Never fight someone with nothing left to lose. > >>Klein bottle for rent. Inquire within. > >>"If we knew what we were doing, it wouldn't be called research, > >> > >> > >would it?" -- Albert Einstein > > > > > >>-----Original Message----- > >> > >> > >>>>--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Gerd" wrote: > >>>> > >>>> > > > > > > > >>>>I really and simply tried to be helpful. > >>>>I find it a pity that I am the last person you will ask advice > >>>>from, but trust me: you will get it anyway. > >>>> > >>>> > > > > > > > > > >>>This is really self-admitted compulsive advisory behaviour ! > >>>As self-appointed advisor ,commentator and promotor :-) > >>> > >>> > > > >for more correct info just read the disclaimer and personal > >at http://www.justmueller.com/boats/ > >-no qualifications , no adress , no responsability ,just > > warning really people about the dangers ahead :-) > > cause as designed , confirmed by more than 3 reputable > > professionals , no way that boat will pass the > > EU certification ,Yago simply is designed to stable > > upside down ( when flipped :-) > > No serious professional in the EU or farther off will > > ever endorse that design unless changed to common practice . > >-Herr Mueller claims it is so easy to do :-) > > > >So 'quote' : " Lett him do so or shutt the fuck up :-)" > > > >see Gerd :-)>>>I find it a pity that I am the last person you will > >ask advice from, but trust me: you will get it anyway. >>> > >that is my best advise to you. > > > >Just ask your personal Insurer what his opinion is > >what will happen to your personal liability if ever > >an accident occurs . > > > > > > > >>>>Drop your weapons and relax, ok? ;-) > >>>>Gerd > >>>>The Yago Project at http://www.justmueller.com/boats/ > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > > > > > > > >>>A woman's saying is : if you can't stand the heat , get out of my > >>>kitchen . > >>>Feel free to continue to advise whatever.... > >>>Could be you can fool some . > >>> > >>>Regards. > >>>Admi > >>>-The Jasmina BS 26'- Project ( no advise , just sound boats :-) > >>> > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > >To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats- unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > | 10107|10083|2006-01-10 00:36:46|ryan tinsley|Re: pilot house retrofit|Rowland, Thank you for the helpful link. It is interesting what does and does not come up on Internet searches. I purchased the boat after finding it on line and spending a week in TX looking at it. kingsknight4life wrote: --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, ryan tinsley wrote: > > Happy New Year, > > In seaching for a pilot house design that could be fit to a George Beuhler Juna I have become interested ......> > Couriously Yours, Ryan > Ryan Have you bought the boat already? The reason I ask, is that I recenty stumbled across a Juna for sale on the internet and it already has a pilothouse. It is also located in Comox, on Vancouver Island which is a lot closer to you than Texas is. Here's a link members.shaw.ca/eos2. Good luck in your search. Rowland To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com SPONSORED LINKS British columbia canada Vancouver island Yacht --------------------------------- YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. --------------------------------- --------------------------------- Yahoo! Photos Ring in the New Year with Photo Calendars. Add photos, events, holidays, whatever. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]| 10108|10053|2006-01-10 03:18:27|Gerd|Re: The Jasmina BS 26' Project|Hi Bella Mia ;-) "compulsive" now? and all the others are "naive men" ? ;-) I was almost going ask the moderator to put a stop on all this nonsense, but then I had a look at your picture in your profile, and I must say, that really compensates for all these strange vibrations coming over from Belgium these days ;-) Could that be really you???! What a lucky man he is, Old Ben, to live in a country where gentle graceful boat-building women abound !! ;-) I still have not got a clue what all this bashing is about though... Gerd| 10109|10053|2006-01-10 06:43:58|edward_stoneuk|Re: The Jasmina BS 26' Project Africa|Hi Admi, I looked at the two very interesting sites. Does the hotel in Senegal belong to your family? I can see that building origami Jasminas over there for guests to sail in would be a good idea. I read the histoire of Guinea-bissau on the site. First white involvment as a port for the export of slaves, gold and ivory from the hinterland, then a run- down Portuguese colony, then a Soviet satellite with a few civil wars thrown in. They could do with a bit of peace and prosperity. Good luck. http://www.lion51.com/index2.html http://www.guinee-bissau.net/archipel_bijagos.html Regards, Ted| 10110|10068|2006-01-10 07:44:28|cirejay|Re: New boat registration for the queen|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Wesley Cox wrote: >I never imagined people would > forget McCarthy and what he did, but here we are. > > The text of the Patriot Act is (or used to be) available online. It > isn't much of a stretch to say that it allows the US government to do > anything so long as it declares it to be in the name of fighting > terrorism. Case law thus far has shown courts are unwilling to put any > limits on the power of the federal government. What would happen if > several hundred US men were openly held at an island prison for 4 years > in violation of several accords of the Geneva Convention and the captors > justified it because they labeled the men "enemy combatants"? (The > island is Cuba) "People who are willing to give up freedom for the sake of short term security, deserve neither freedom nor security." - Benjamin Franklin The above hangs in my office along with a definition of hubris, The Bill of Rights, and a few quotes from W. Any number of customers see it on a weekly basis. I've yet to hear a negative remark. But, then again, I have a captive market - people wanting to borrow large sums of money :-) eric S/V Nebaras| 10111|10053|2006-01-10 07:57:57|cirejay|Re: The Jasmina BS 26' Project|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Gerd" wrote: > > Hi Bella Mia ;-) > > "compulsive" now? and all the others are "naive men" ? ;-) > > I was almost going ask the moderator to put a stop on all this > nonsense, but then I had a look at your picture in your profile, and I > must say, that really compensates for all these strange vibrations > coming over from Belgium these days ;-) > > Could that be really you???! What a lucky man he is, Old Ben, to live > in a country where gentle graceful boat-building women abound !! ;- ) > > I still have not got a clue what all this bashing is about though... > And so, the hole gets deeper. At least we're all having a good time down here, digging away :-) eric S/V Nebaras| 10112|10112|2006-01-10 08:05:44|kingsknight4life|Rich, did you receive the e-mail that I sent to you? NM|No message| 10113|10053|2006-01-10 08:58:43|a_admi|Re: The Jasmina BS 26' Project Africa|Hi Ted , Hi Colin , thanks for your interest . --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "edward_stoneuk" wrote: > > Hi Admi, > I looked at the two very interesting sites. Does the hotel in Senegal > belong to your family? The Senegalese Sine Saloum Delta is an internationaly recognised and protected national parc . Under very stringent conditions , any investor can ask for a lease from the Senegalese Government , this to say no foreigner can own a hotel in a national parc . Some foreign partners in a Senegalese Company can be considered as the Managing Directors of those hotels. Well considered , especialy when they are the mayor employers in that region . For UK residents it is good to know Banjul Airport in Gambia is a cheap charter flight destination . A ferry to cross the Gambia river , and only a small distance by car or bus and you arrive in Toubacouta. No need to fly in via Dakar , same for the Dutch . Just have a look at the map . >I can see that building origami Jasminas over > there for guests to sail in would be a good idea. I read the histoire > of Guinea-bissau on the site. First white involvment as a port for > the export of slaves, gold and ivory from the hinterland, then a run- > down Portuguese colony, then a Soviet satellite with a few civil wars > thrown in. They could do with a bit of peace and prosperity. Good > luck. > > http://www.lion51.com/index2.html > http://www.guinee-bissau.net/archipel_bijagos.html > > Regards, > Ted > Hello Admi would you care to comment further on your reasons for choosing to commercially build turn-key 26 ft. Swains, rather than (say) part- built 36 footers from the same stable ? From a strictly financial point of view, your choice does seem rather counter-intuitive ... Regards Colin It was a deliberate choice to start with a transportable boat and the smallest in the stable. My banker and my Insurance brooker are my best business advisors. The 26' is a popular size in Europe . Freight prices are calculated in ground space taken by containers. 20' , 30' and 40' I received already a positive reaction from - a UK teachers couple : the lady does not realy want her husband to start selfbuilding . I had to agree with her that a 30 ' long boat not wider than the standard 26' would be a lot more spacious. I presume her husband will ask for a quotation to Brent Swain directly , I just want to build the boat. Teachers have holidays in our off season . The lady has a real interest to try out the living aboard retiree lifestyle before committing to anything . WISE WOMAN - a Belgian and a Dutch couple. both ladies do not like boating but wanted to book right away to rent 1 room and 1 boat , so the husbands can go sailing with an older son , they wanted to enjoy the hotel's piscine and fine food ( Senegal is an old French colony ) while staff take care of smaller children. The Ladies cook all year and want to be served during their holidays . I think this must sound familiar to some sailors . Ladies also complain their husbands spend to much time online :-) A nice Canadian lady joined allready the Group . Thanks for your support . Keep the ladies happy guys , you will never regret. see : http://www.tropic-composites.com/ for some different boats . I see a nice Joubert&Nivelt Design in there. Admi| 10114|10053|2006-01-10 11:40:10|audeojude|Re: The Jasmina BS 26' Project|Gerd, carefull... thats a shark in that bathtub.. a very attractive one but a shark... get to close and it might eat you. sincerely, scott one of those naive men only smart enough not to let sharks eat him. :) --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Gerd" wrote: > > Hi Bella Mia ;-) > > "compulsive" now? and all the others are "naive men" ? ;-) > > I was almost going ask the moderator to put a stop on all this > nonsense, but then I had a look at your picture in your profile, and I > must say, that really compensates for all these strange vibrations > coming over from Belgium these days ;-) > > Could that be really you???! What a lucky man he is, Old Ben, to live > in a country where gentle graceful boat-building women abound !! ;-) > > I still have not got a clue what all this bashing is about though... > > Gerd > | 10115|10068|2006-01-10 11:41:27|Carl Volkwein|Re: New boat registration for the queen|Here in the U.S. we don't have a queen(iguess w.'d be more a king?) so what's the deal between state license, and federal registration of a boat here, other than the # on the hull? what rites do U.S. citizens give up to the government? Carl in W.V. Puck III wrote: Thanks Wesley , much appreciated . Better smart than sorry indeed . Old Ben --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Wesley Cox wrote: > > I don't want to get much into US politics because it is currently at the > same time boring and scary (and off-topic). The new McCarthyism is a > phrase I've used myself many times in the last 5 years. Suffice it to > say that I don't discuss politics in any detail with anyone I don't know > *very* well anymore for fear of back lash, physical, financial or > otherwise against my family. I don't see it as a dire situation so long > as I don't talk politics with strangers, but it is real. US citizens > are being encouraged to label others as unpatriotic if they are not in > step with the president's policies. We're also encouraged to report our > neighbors to the new dept. of homeland security for "suspicious" > activity. I'm all for stopping terrorists, of course, but if my > neighbor the truck driver gets back from a frustrating haul and wants to > dig a hole in his yard and fill it in 20 times to relieve tension, he > shouldn't have to be worried that busy-body-Ethel across the street is > going to sick the men in black on him. I never imagined people would > forget McCarthy and what he did, but here we are. > > The text of the Patriot Act is (or used to be) available online. It > isn't much of a stretch to say that it allows the US government to do > anything so long as it declares it to be in the name of fighting > terrorism. Case law thus far has shown courts are unwilling to put any > limits on the power of the federal government. What would happen if > several hundred US men were openly held at an island prison for 4 years > in violation of several accords of the Geneva Convention and the captors > justified it because they labeled the men "enemy combatants"? (The > island is Cuba) > > Sorry if I went too far off topic. Old Ben expressed a concern and > asked for opinions. > > > Puck III wrote: > > >--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "jericoera" wrote: > > > > > >>Be advised that if you register your boat in Canada, you are being > >>good enough to give one third of it to the queen though I don't > >>believe any private vessels have been comondeered by the royals > >>since WWII. > >> > >>Just so you know you will no longer be the sole owner. Having said > >>that, if you end up in US waters heading for Cuba and they decide to > >>seize your boat under the Patriot Act, I would expect having the > >>queen as a third owner in your boat may save you some seizure > >>headaches as I doubt they would as easily seize Crown property. > >> > >>Just a thought. > >> > >>Carl mcIntosh > >> > >> > > > >Carl , you have me worried . Is this a Joke or correct ? > >Suppose I am in Florida on a EU sailingboat . > >Could I be seized if I want to sail to Cuba ? > >Or is the Cuban embargo only for US cityzens and ships ? > > > >Last time I was in Marina Hemingway Cuba , > >many Canadians seemed extreemly happy in Cuba . > >Some US sailboats visited . > >We were invited on board for drinks and returned the > >invitation , realy nice people . > >They explained to me , they where not allowed to spent > >any money in Cuba , nothing more . > >You have me worried a bit . > >I also read Brent's advise to sail directly from > >Canada to Mexico , he must have his reasons . > >I hope that those who know better inform us that > >know nothing much : better smart than sorry :-) > >Thanks in advance. > > > >Old Ben > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > >To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats- unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com SPONSORED LINKS British columbia canada Vancouver island Yacht --------------------------------- YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. --------------------------------- --------------------------------- Yahoo! Photos Got holiday prints? See all the ways to get quality prints in your hands ASAP. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 10116|10068|2006-01-10 12:27:02|Michael Casling|Re: New boat registration for the queen|Sate of Washington, Department of licensing, year 2002, Reg #`````````` Decal #``````````` purchase cost ( understated ) mod year 1975 Make ```````````` Series/body PSGPS22 HIN ( incorrect ) Prev title # ``````````````registered owner ```````````````````````` I swear blah blah blah signed, total fees $165- and you get a fancy certificate. That's for a 22 foot sailboat. Probably varies with each state. The certificate gets a fancy US Customs stamp when exported. I then removed the WA numbers off the boat. Canadian customs ( 3 different agents ) tried many times to get me to license the boat here, but it does not need to be licensed with a motor of less than 10hp. If I do license it then the tax department will have a way of tracking any future sale and requesting tax money. They could exempt tax on used products such as sail boats and then they might get more boats registered. Perhaps for a nominal fee of $25- But registering is not the answer if the records are not accurate. As an example we have a barn cat named Bunkie. He is a tattooed Maine Coon cat registered to the Andersons. We tried to locate them and so did the vets office that did the tattoo. We have had Bunkie for about 8 years. He wants to stay. Photos on request. The piece written by Alex was good. Michael ----- Original Message ----- From: Carl Volkwein To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2006 8:41 AM Subject: Re: [origamiboats] Re: New boat registration for the queen Here in the U.S. we don't have a queen(iguess w.'d be more a king?) so what's the deal between state license, and federal registration of a boat here, other than the # on the hull? what rites do U.S. citizens give up to the government? Carl in W.V. Puck III wrote: Thanks Wesley , much appreciated . Better smart than sorry indeed . Old Ben --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Wesley Cox wrote: > > I don't want to get much into US politics because it is currently at the > same time boring and scary (and off-topic). The new McCarthyism is a > phrase I've used myself many times in the last 5 years. Suffice it to > say that I don't discuss politics in any detail with anyone I don't know > *very* well anymore for fear of back lash, physical, financial or > otherwise against my family. I don't see it as a dire situation so long > as I don't talk politics with strangers, but it is real. US citizens > are being encouraged to label others as unpatriotic if they are not in > step with the president's policies. We're also encouraged to report our > neighbors to the new dept. of homeland security for "suspicious" > activity. I'm all for stopping terrorists, of course, but if my > neighbor the truck driver gets back from a frustrating haul and wants to > dig a hole in his yard and fill it in 20 times to relieve tension, he > shouldn't have to be worried that busy-body-Ethel across the street is > going to sick the men in black on him. I never imagined people would > forget McCarthy and what he did, but here we are. > > The text of the Patriot Act is (or used to be) available online. It > isn't much of a stretch to say that it allows the US government to do > anything so long as it declares it to be in the name of fighting > terrorism. Case law thus far has shown courts are unwilling to put any > limits on the power of the federal government. What would happen if > several hundred US men were openly held at an island prison for 4 years > in violation of several accords of the Geneva Convention and the captors > justified it because they labeled the men "enemy combatants"? (The > island is Cuba) > > Sorry if I went too far off topic. Old Ben expressed a concern and > asked for opinions. > > > Puck III wrote: > > >--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "jericoera" wrote: > > > > > >>Be advised that if you register your boat in Canada, you are being > >>good enough to give one third of it to the queen though I don't > >>believe any private vessels have been comondeered by the royals > >>since WWII. > >> > >>Just so you know you will no longer be the sole owner. Having said > >>that, if you end up in US waters heading for Cuba and they decide to > >>seize your boat under the Patriot Act, I would expect having the > >>queen as a third owner in your boat may save you some seizure > >>headaches as I doubt they would as easily seize Crown property. > >> > >>Just a thought. > >> > >>Carl mcIntosh > >> > >> > > > >Carl , you have me worried . Is this a Joke or correct ? > >Suppose I am in Florida on a EU sailingboat . > >Could I be seized if I want to sail to Cuba ? > >Or is the Cuban embargo only for US cityzens and ships ? > > > >Last time I was in Marina Hemingway Cuba , > >many Canadians seemed extreemly happy in Cuba . > >Some US sailboats visited . > >We were invited on board for drinks and returned the > >invitation , realy nice people . > >They explained to me , they where not allowed to spent > >any money in Cuba , nothing more . > >You have me worried a bit . > >I also read Brent's advise to sail directly from > >Canada to Mexico , he must have his reasons . > >I hope that those who know better inform us that > >know nothing much : better smart than sorry :-) > >Thanks in advance. > > > >Old Ben > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > >To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats- unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com SPONSORED LINKS British columbia canada Vancouver island Yacht --------------------------------- YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. --------------------------------- --------------------------------- Yahoo! Photos Got holiday prints? See all the ways to get quality prints in your hands ASAP. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS a.. Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web. b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 10117|10068|2006-01-10 15:11:40|brentswain38|Re: New boat registration for the queen|I thought your Queen was Michael Jackson. Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Carl Volkwein wrote: > > Here in the U.S. we don't have a queen(iguess w.'d be more a king?) so what's the deal between state license, and federal registration of a boat here, other than the # on the hull? what rites do U.S. citizens give up to the government? > Carl in W.V. > > Puck III wrote: > Thanks Wesley , much appreciated . > Better smart than sorry indeed . > Old Ben > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Wesley Cox wrote: > > > > I don't want to get much into US politics because it is currently > at the > > same time boring and scary (and off-topic). The new McCarthyism is > a > > phrase I've used myself many times in the last 5 years. Suffice it > to > > say that I don't discuss politics in any detail with anyone I don't > know > > *very* well anymore for fear of back lash, physical, financial or > > otherwise against my family. I don't see it as a dire situation so > long > > as I don't talk politics with strangers, but it is real. US > citizens > > are being encouraged to label others as unpatriotic if they are not > in > > step with the president's policies. We're also encouraged to > report our > > neighbors to the new dept. of homeland security for "suspicious" > > activity. I'm all for stopping terrorists, of course, but if my > > neighbor the truck driver gets back from a frustrating haul and > wants to > > dig a hole in his yard and fill it in 20 times to relieve tension, > he > > shouldn't have to be worried that busy-body-Ethel across the street > is > > going to sick the men in black on him. I never imagined people > would > > forget McCarthy and what he did, but here we are. > > > > The text of the Patriot Act is (or used to be) available online. > It > > isn't much of a stretch to say that it allows the US government to > do > > anything so long as it declares it to be in the name of fighting > > terrorism. Case law thus far has shown courts are unwilling to put > any > > limits on the power of the federal government. What would happen > if > > several hundred US men were openly held at an island prison for 4 > years > > in violation of several accords of the Geneva Convention and the > captors > > justified it because they labeled the men "enemy combatants"? (The > > island is Cuba) > > > > Sorry if I went too far off topic. Old Ben expressed a concern and > > asked for opinions. > > > > > > Puck III wrote: > > > > >--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "jericoera" > wrote: > > > > > > > > >>Be advised that if you register your boat in Canada, you are > being > > >>good enough to give one third of it to the queen though I don't > > >>believe any private vessels have been comondeered by the royals > > >>since WWII. > > >> > > >>Just so you know you will no longer be the sole owner. Having > said > > >>that, if you end up in US waters heading for Cuba and they decide > to > > >>seize your boat under the Patriot Act, I would expect having the > > >>queen as a third owner in your boat may save you some seizure > > >>headaches as I doubt they would as easily seize Crown property. > > >> > > >>Just a thought. > > >> > > >>Carl mcIntosh > > >> > > >> > > > > > >Carl , you have me worried . Is this a Joke or correct ? > > >Suppose I am in Florida on a EU sailingboat . > > >Could I be seized if I want to sail to Cuba ? > > >Or is the Cuban embargo only for US cityzens and ships ? > > > > > >Last time I was in Marina Hemingway Cuba , > > >many Canadians seemed extreemly happy in Cuba . > > >Some US sailboats visited . > > >We were invited on board for drinks and returned the > > >invitation , realy nice people . > > >They explained to me , they where not allowed to spent > > >any money in Cuba , nothing more . > > >You have me worried a bit . > > >I also read Brent's advise to sail directly from > > >Canada to Mexico , he must have his reasons . > > >I hope that those who know better inform us that > > >know nothing much : better smart than sorry :-) > > >Thanks in advance. > > > > > >Old Ben > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > >To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats- > unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats- unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > SPONSORED LINKS > British columbia canada Vancouver island Yacht > > --------------------------------- > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > > Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > > --------------------------------- > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > Yahoo! Photos > Got holiday prints? See all the ways to get quality prints in your hands ASAP. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > | 10118|10083|2006-01-10 15:19:27|brentswain38|Re: pilot house retrofit|You could use aluminium for the pilot house. Some people want to keep going higher and higher with the pilothouse, but once you can see over the forehatch, there is no benefit in going higher and it blocks your view from the cockpit. It also makes it harder to use the area under the side decks for counterspace in the galley. My book covers the pilothouse building proccess. You could build the pilothouse separatly in a garage and put it on the boat in a single sunny day. This lets you do all the detail ( handrails hatches etc) on a workbench rather than having to climb around the boat to do it. For welding Galvanized, I've found that a mask hooked to 24 feet of plastic sump drain hose lets you breath air from 24 feet away while welding. I wouldn't weld much galvanized for a living, but for your own boat it's a one shot deal. Washing it first with a TSP solution, then vinegar and finaly water, gets rid of the oxide and makes paint stick well, as long as you paint it as soon as it dries. Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, ryan tinsley wrote: > > Brent > I am located in Fairbanks, AK and the boat is in San Leon, TX on Galveston Bay. I'm packing up currently and will be moving to TX within the month specifically to work on the boat. The Juna has tender lines and relatively low free board which is great for windage and a easy motion but wet. My main concern in adding weight higher, 16" approx., on a double ender with a 10' 6" beam is that the structure be as light as possible and still adequately strong. The hull is built like a battle ship, very arguably overbuilt for it's size. I would like to apply a different philosophy to the construction of the pilot house and make the cockpit more user friendly. I had not thought of using galvanized 10gu. are there any draw backs besides the obvious fume issue. > > brentswain38 wrote: > Ryan > You could use galvanized 10 guage. > Where are you located? > Brent > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, ryan tinsley > wrote: > > > > Happy New Year, > > > > In seaching for a pilot house design that could be fit to a > George Beuhler Juna I have become interested in Brent Swain's work > which refreshingly seems to embrace functionality, innovation and > simplicity. I plan to construct the house out of 10gu. corten with > 3/8 tempered glass windows. I imagine the origami boat building book > will provide guidance to the proper scantlings of the pilot house as > well as the general layout of the cockpit and hatchway? Just a note, > the Juna is not abstract. > > > > Couriously Yours, Ryan > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > Yahoo! Photos > > Got holiday prints? See all the ways to get quality prints in your > hands ASAP. > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats- unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > SPONSORED LINKS > British columbia canada Vancouver island Yacht > > --------------------------------- > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > > Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > > --------------------------------- > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > Yahoo! DSL Something to write home about. Just $16.99/mo. or less > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > | 10119|10100|2006-01-10 15:27:27|brentswain38|Re: Wood stoves on board?|The foreward position of your stove will mean the smoke will go toward the cockpit when it is burning, only when motoring in a calm or a head wind. You can put as high a chimney as you want amoung your shrouds. When it is cold enough to need a woodstove burning, it is cold enough to stay in the pilothouse which will avoid any smoke. I had a stove on my last boat which was about 6 inches from a bulhead. I put a sheet of asbestos an inch off the bulkhead, and the bulkhead still got hot. I put a sheet of stainless over the asbestos and it still got hot. I crammed fibreglass house insulation in the one inch gap and the bulkhead stayed as cool as a cucumber, regardless of how hot the stove got. Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "kingsknight4life" wrote: > > Hi everyone. > Just a couple of quick questions. I'm getting close to finalizing the > layout inside our BS 36. We will most likely be putting in a > woodstove, the questions are; How much clearance do I need around the > stove so my interior doesn't become heat damaged or fuel? Is motoring > or saiiling with the wood stove burning going to flood my cockpit > whith smoke? Any other wood stove hints or tips appreciated as well. > Thanks > Rowland > | 10120|10068|2006-01-10 15:42:59|brentswain38|Re: New boat registration for the queen|Believing that the Canadian government will be of any help if you get in trouble with banana republic bureuacrats is extremely naive . I found out from first hand experience that when it comes to dealing with foreign governments that the Canadian governmetn is ( to coin an old prairie expression) as useless as a one legged man in an ass kicking contest. I have found out recently that if there is no Canadian consulate in a country, the British or Australian consulate will help Canadians. When I was being kicked out of Christmass Island during hurricane season with a hurricane in the area, because my Canadian yacht didn't have US registry, did the Canadian government contact the Aussie embassy. No way. They simply told me that because the nearest Canadian embassy was in Australia so they couldn't help me.I complained to the minister of external affairs Graham,and complained directly to an opposition external affairs critic, Mcdonough . Neither considered it worth their while to respond. The promise to help you if you give 1/3rd of your yacht to the Queen is as believable as an election promise, in otherwords , a fraudulent way for them to be given a third of your boat, on totally false pretenses. They don't have the balls to complain to a third world country who have no economic value to Canada. Dont expect thenm to complain to any country that does. An example is the way Joe Clark ,minister of external affairs kept silent about the machine gunning of innocents at the golden temple at Amritsar because he didn't want to risk Canada Indian relations. The result was the air India bombig for which he shares some responsibility. So your little lump of steel is of no interest to Canada even if they do own what is a financial drop in the ocean in the greater scheme of things. Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Michael Casling wrote: > > If the Queen or any of her relatives come to BC and try to lay claim to any part of my boat, I will push them in the puddle. > Latter I will set aunt Hilda on them, and that is something they will never forget. > > Michael > ----- Original Message ----- > From: jericoera > To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Monday, January 09, 2006 12:20 PM > Subject: [origamiboats] Re: New boat registration for the queen > > > Be advised that if you register your boat in Canada, you are being > good enough to give one third of it to the queen though I don't > believe any private vessels have been comondeered by the royals > since WWII. > > Just so you know you will no longer be the sole owner. Having said > that, if you end up in US waters heading for Cuba and they decide to > seize your boat under the Patriot Act, I would expect having the > queen as a third owner in your boat may save you some seizure > headaches as I doubt they would as easily seize Crown property. > > Just a thought. > > Carl mcIntosh > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "mickeyolaf" > wrote: > > > > When I registered my boat in BC there were no fees. I wasn't made > to even prove the boat > > existed. I filled out the forms, put a value on it, paid no fees > (at the time) and received a K > > number. > > > > The fee's came later when I received a bill from the Provincial > Gov for Provincial sales tax. > > (PST had not been paid on my boat's materials at the time of > purchase). If you have > > already paid PST on all of the parts, and you can prove it, and > they believe you, you could > > say so on the bill, mail it back to them and see if it flys with > the Provincial pirates. A buddy > > of mine who built a catamaran wrote on the bill "homemade boat, > PST paid on all > > materials" and sent it back. He never heard again from them. > > > > My insurance company sent me a registered letter stating that > before my boat is splashed > > it must be inspected for proper construction techniques and > seaworthiness. I have to pay > > for the inspection and they choose the inspector. $400.00 cost to > me. > > > > So in reality if you want to register and insure your boat, if you > are honest about it's value > > and what taxes have or have not been paid and you buy insurance it > is very expensive in > > BC. > > There are a lot of highwaymen along the road when you build a boat > in BC. They just don't > > wear masks. You can still spot them though as they stand behind > the counters at marine > > stores, marine insurance companies, marinas, or inspect boats etc. > Instead of a Winchester > > they are holding signs which say "on sale" or "30% off", when in > reality the parts or services > > were already marked up 100%. > > > > An interesting story is the relative of mine who bought a Canadian > registered boat berthed > > in Pt. Roberts, Washington. He changed the registration into his > name and sure enough > > along comes the PST bill from the BC Gov. He wrote back that the > boat was in the US, the > > transaction took place in the US, and he wasn't paying. The Gov > agreed it wasn't a BC sale > > and that was the end of the bill. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "tazmannusa" > wrote: > > > > > > Hello All > > > If anyone is interested, I stopped by DMV here in California to > see > > > what I had to do to get the BS 26 registration and hull number. > One > > > form to fill out and bring receipts for materials used and they > dont > > > have to see the boat, doesnt get any easyer than that. Im realy > > > suprised theres no inspections. I should have asked them about > selling > > > it latter on, if there a time limit or not. I will find out > > > Tom > > > > > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats- unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------- > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > a.. Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web. > > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------- > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > | 10121|10083|2006-01-10 16:38:45|GORDON SCHNELL|Re: pilot house retrofit|Ryan You are interested in pilothouse profiles. Here is the profile (or close, anyway) I used on my Brent 40. Gord [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]| 10122|10068|2006-01-10 17:46:13|Wesley Cox|Re: New boat registration for the queen|Hey, that's not fair. I'm certainly no fan of our king, but MJ is also not our Queen. He's more like a black sheep princess worshipped by only a few. :) brentswain38 wrote: >I thought your Queen was Michael Jackson. >Brent > >--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Carl Volkwein > wrote: > > >>Here in the U.S. we don't have a queen(iguess w.'d be more a king?) >> >> >so what's the deal between state license, and federal registration of >a boat here, other than the # on the hull? what rites do U.S. >citizens give up to the government? > > >> Carl in W.V. >> >>Puck III wrote: >> Thanks Wesley , much appreciated . >>Better smart than sorry indeed . >>Old Ben >> >>--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Wesley Cox >> >> >wrote: > > >>>I don't want to get much into US politics because it is currently >>> >>> >>at the >> >> >>>same time boring and scary (and off-topic). The new McCarthyism >>> >>> >is > > >>a >> >> >>>phrase I've used myself many times in the last 5 years. Suffice >>> >>> >it > > >>to >> >> >>>say that I don't discuss politics in any detail with anyone I >>> >>> >don't > > >>know >> >> >>>*very* well anymore for fear of back lash, physical, financial or >>>otherwise against my family. I don't see it as a dire situation >>> >>> >so > > >>long >> >> >>>as I don't talk politics with strangers, but it is real. US >>> >>> >>citizens >> >> >>>are being encouraged to label others as unpatriotic if they are >>> >>> >not > > >>in >> >> >>>step with the president's policies. We're also encouraged to >>> >>> >>report our >> >> >>>neighbors to the new dept. of homeland security for "suspicious" >>>activity. I'm all for stopping terrorists, of course, but if my >>>neighbor the truck driver gets back from a frustrating haul and >>> >>> >>wants to >> >> >>>dig a hole in his yard and fill it in 20 times to relieve >>> >>> >tension, > > >>he >> >> >>>shouldn't have to be worried that busy-body-Ethel across the >>> >>> >street > > >>is >> >> >>>going to sick the men in black on him. I never imagined people >>> >>> >>would >> >> >>>forget McCarthy and what he did, but here we are. >>> >>>The text of the Patriot Act is (or used to be) available online. >>> >>> >>It >> >> >>>isn't much of a stretch to say that it allows the US government >>> >>> >to > > >>do >> >> >>>anything so long as it declares it to be in the name of fighting >>>terrorism. Case law thus far has shown courts are unwilling to >>> >>> >put > > >>any >> >> >>>limits on the power of the federal government. What would happen >>> >>> >>if >> >> >>>several hundred US men were openly held at an island prison for 4 >>> >>> >>years >> >> >>>in violation of several accords of the Geneva Convention and the >>> >>> >>captors >> >> >>>justified it because they labeled the men "enemy combatants"? >>> >>> >(The > > >>>island is Cuba) >>> >>>Sorry if I went too far off topic. Old Ben expressed a concern >>> >>> >and > > >>>asked for opinions. >>> >>> >>>Puck III wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>>>--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "jericoera" >>>> >>>> > > > >>wrote: >> >> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>Be advised that if you register your boat in Canada, you are >>>>> >>>>> >>being >> >> >>>>>good enough to give one third of it to the queen though I don't >>>>>believe any private vessels have been comondeered by the royals >>>>>since WWII. >>>>> >>>>>Just so you know you will no longer be the sole owner. Having >>>>> >>>>> >>said >> >> >>>>>that, if you end up in US waters heading for Cuba and they >>>>> >>>>> >decide > > >>to >> >> >>>>>seize your boat under the Patriot Act, I would expect having >>>>> >>>>> >the > > >>>>>queen as a third owner in your boat may save you some seizure >>>>>headaches as I doubt they would as easily seize Crown property. >>>>> >>>>>Just a thought. >>>>> >>>>>Carl mcIntosh >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>Carl , you have me worried . Is this a Joke or correct ? >>>>Suppose I am in Florida on a EU sailingboat . >>>>Could I be seized if I want to sail to Cuba ? >>>>Or is the Cuban embargo only for US cityzens and ships ? >>>> >>>>Last time I was in Marina Hemingway Cuba , >>>>many Canadians seemed extreemly happy in Cuba . >>>>Some US sailboats visited . >>>>We were invited on board for drinks and returned the >>>>invitation , realy nice people . >>>>They explained to me , they where not allowed to spent >>>>any money in Cuba , nothing more . >>>>You have me worried a bit . >>>>I also read Brent's advise to sail directly from >>>>Canada to Mexico , he must have his reasons . >>>>I hope that those who know better inform us that >>>>know nothing much : better smart than sorry :-) >>>>Thanks in advance. >>>> >>>>Old Ben >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com >>>>To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats- >>>> >>>> >>unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com >> >> >>>>Yahoo! Groups Links >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >> >> >> >> >>To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com >>To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats- >> >> >unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > >> >> SPONSORED LINKS >> British columbia canada Vancouver island Yacht >> >>--------------------------------- >> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS >> >> >> Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web. >> >> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >> origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com >> >> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of >> >> >Service. > > >> >>--------------------------------- >> >> >> >> >> >> >>--------------------------------- >>Yahoo! Photos >> Got holiday prints? See all the ways to get quality prints in your >> >> >hands ASAP. > > >>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >> >> >> > > > > > > >To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com >To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > | 10123|10123|2006-01-10 19:22:54|richytill|sailing photo|Alex, how do we post photos please? rt| 10124|10068|2006-01-10 22:54:34|jericoera|Re: New boat registration for the queen|Cuba is not the problem Ben-its getting there through US waters that is the problem and yes from my understanding of the Patriot Act or misunderstanding of it., US authorities can seize Canadian vessels or any other vessel they choose sailing through their waters en route to Cuba. Would they? I don't know, but then again you only have to look at the people being held against the Geneva convention in Guantamano without the right to legal representation. That's as close as I get to politics on this forum but I would do more homework before heading that direction to Cuba. Castro liked Prime Minister Trudeau and even attended his funeral with some very sleek looking female bodyguards packing guns. I would not feel worried about visiting Cuba one bit, just getting there. Hope that is of some help. You can read the US patriot act online from my recollection and you can certainly verify Canadian boat registry and the 1/3 rule belonging to the queen. Cheers Carl --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III" wrote: > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "jericoera" wrote: > > > > Be advised that if you register your boat in Canada, you are being > > good enough to give one third of it to the queen though I don't > > believe any private vessels have been comondeered by the royals > > since WWII. > > > > Just so you know you will no longer be the sole owner. Having said > > that, if you end up in US waters heading for Cuba and they decide to > > seize your boat under the Patriot Act, I would expect having the > > queen as a third owner in your boat may save you some seizure > > headaches as I doubt they would as easily seize Crown property. > > > > Just a thought. > > > > Carl mcIntosh > > Carl , you have me worried . Is this a Joke or correct ? > Suppose I am in Florida on a EU sailingboat . > Could I be seized if I want to sail to Cuba ? > Or is the Cuban embargo only for US cityzens and ships ? > > Last time I was in Marina Hemingway Cuba , > many Canadians seemed extreemly happy in Cuba . > Some US sailboats visited . > We were invited on board for drinks and returned the > invitation , realy nice people . > They explained to me , they where not allowed to spent > any money in Cuba , nothing more . > You have me worried a bit . > I also read Brent's advise to sail directly from > Canada to Mexico , he must have his reasons . > I hope that those who know better inform us that > know nothing much : better smart than sorry :-) > Thanks in advance. > > Old Ben > | 10125|10123|2006-01-10 23:26:52|kingsknight4life|Re: sailing photo|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "richytill" wrote: > > Alex, how do we post photos please? rt > Rich Go to Origami 2 or 3 and click on the "photos" link. Once in the photo's section there should be a link where it says, "create album" in the upper right hand corner. Click it and from there it's pretty much self eplanatory, as I rememeber? Rich did you ever get my e-mail? Could you please e-mail me at wildcatbjjAThomailDOTcom,I have some questions for you about "My Island" if you don't mind? thanks Rowland| 10126|10068|2006-01-11 04:42:28|edward_stoneuk|Re: New boat registration for the queen|Dear all, I was interested in the posts that the Queen owned a third of all Canadian boats. Believing it to be nonsense, I looked up the Canadian Government's view on the matter. In www.tc.gc.ca/MarineSafety/Ships-and-operations- standards/faq.htm#20 it states: For registry purposes the property in a vessel is divided into 64 indivisible shares. The origin of this practice has not been definitely established although various theories have been advanced. Here are three of the more credible: (a) That for the convenience of practical men, the binary system was used, where the shares in the vessel were halved until the whole was reduced to 64 parts; (b) That the custom grew out of the fact that in olden days most vessels had 64 ribs; (c) That during the reign of Queen Elizabeth shipowners were taxed to pay for naval protection and to secure this tax the Crown took 36 of the original 100 shares in each vessel, leaving the owner 64 shares, and that although the tax was later remitted the custom of vesting absolute title through 64 shares has persisted. The Queen Elizabeth referred to is the 1st not the present Queen. In those days the Crown was the government. It states that the tax and Crown shares have since been remitted. Neither Queen Elizabeth 2nd, nor the Crown, nor the Canadian Government takes a share in Canadian boats. In times of war etc. governments can and do requisition anything they want. In times of peace they increase taxes. I also found these regulations. Office of Boating Safety Standard: TP1332 - Construction Standards for Small Vessels. 3.9.2 All pleasure craft shall comply with ABYC Standards for Small Craft H41.6. Regards, Ted| 10127|10068|2006-01-11 06:07:24|sae140|Re: New boat registration for the queen|It's interesting (or not ...) how people are using the terms 'The Queen' and 'The Crown' interchangeably. The current Queen (real family surname Battenburg Saxe-Coburg-Gotha, changed to Windsor during WWI for obvious reasons) has her own personal fortune and income, thanks to Q. Victoria creaming-off the profits. 'The Crown' is now just another name for British Government PLC. Where this apparent equivalence becomes really sneaky is in relation to legal proceedings - which are always brought in the name of Regina (The Queen), although in practice this really means The Crown. As the Monarch cannot be prosecuted (she is above the Law), this effectively means that the British Government cannot be prosecuted either - at least by it's own hands (Regina vs Regina simply isn't possible) - ergo, the Brit Government is above the law and can do no wrong. Until we joined the EU of course ..... Colin| 10128|10068|2006-01-11 06:54:53|Puck III|Re: New boat registration for the queen|Hi Michael , I request a photo of Bunkie cause I like pets ; dont ask me why , cause I would have to answer . Bunkie is a fine name , my Scotch is called Filou . " Great Scotch , no rules " just wondering if anyone saw those adds ? Old Ben --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Michael Casling wrote: > > Sate of Washington, Department of licensing, year 2002, Reg #`````````` Decal #``````````` purchase cost ( understated ) mod year 1975 Make ```````````` Series/body PSGPS22 HIN ( incorrect ) Prev title # ``````````````registered owner ```````````````````````` > > I swear blah blah blah signed, total fees $165- and you get a fancy certificate. That's for a 22 foot sailboat. > > Probably varies with each state. > > The certificate gets a fancy US Customs stamp when exported. I then removed the WA numbers off the boat. Canadian customs ( 3 different agents ) tried many times to get me to license the boat here, but it does not need to be licensed with a motor of less than 10hp. If I do license it then the tax department will have a way of tracking any future sale and requesting tax money. > They could exempt tax on used products such as sail boats and then they might get more boats registered. Perhaps for a nominal fee of $25- > But registering is not the answer if the records are not accurate. As an example we have a barn cat named Bunkie. He is a tattooed Maine Coon cat registered to the Andersons. We tried to locate them and so did the vets office that did the tattoo. We have had Bunkie for about 8 years. He wants to stay. Photos on request. > The piece written by Alex was good. > > Michael > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Carl Volkwein > To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2006 8:41 AM > Subject: Re: [origamiboats] Re: New boat registration for the queen > > > Here in the U.S. we don't have a queen(iguess w.'d be more a king?) so what's the deal between state license, and federal registration of a boat here, other than the # on the hull? what rites do U.S. citizens give up to the government? > Carl in W.V. > > Puck III wrote: > Thanks Wesley , much appreciated . > Better smart than sorry indeed . > Old Ben > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Wesley Cox wrote: > > > > I don't want to get much into US politics because it is currently > at the > > same time boring and scary (and off-topic). The new McCarthyism is > a > > phrase I've used myself many times in the last 5 years. Suffice it > to > > say that I don't discuss politics in any detail with anyone I don't > know > > *very* well anymore for fear of back lash, physical, financial or > > otherwise against my family. I don't see it as a dire situation so > long > > as I don't talk politics with strangers, but it is real. US > citizens > > are being encouraged to label others as unpatriotic if they are not > in > > step with the president's policies. We're also encouraged to > report our > > neighbors to the new dept. of homeland security for "suspicious" > > activity. I'm all for stopping terrorists, of course, but if my > > neighbor the truck driver gets back from a frustrating haul and > wants to > > dig a hole in his yard and fill it in 20 times to relieve tension, > he > > shouldn't have to be worried that busy-body-Ethel across the street > is > > going to sick the men in black on him. I never imagined people > would > > forget McCarthy and what he did, but here we are. > > > > The text of the Patriot Act is (or used to be) available online. > It > > isn't much of a stretch to say that it allows the US government to > do > > anything so long as it declares it to be in the name of fighting > > terrorism. Case law thus far has shown courts are unwilling to put > any > > limits on the power of the federal government. What would happen > if > > several hundred US men were openly held at an island prison for 4 > years > > in violation of several accords of the Geneva Convention and the > captors > > justified it because they labeled the men "enemy combatants"? (The > > island is Cuba) > > > > Sorry if I went too far off topic. Old Ben expressed a concern and > > asked for opinions. > > > > > > Puck III wrote: > > > > >--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "jericoera" > wrote: > > > > > > > > >>Be advised that if you register your boat in Canada, you are > being > > >>good enough to give one third of it to the queen though I don't > > >>believe any private vessels have been comondeered by the royals > > >>since WWII. > > >> > > >>Just so you know you will no longer be the sole owner. Having > said > > >>that, if you end up in US waters heading for Cuba and they decide > to > > >>seize your boat under the Patriot Act, I would expect having the > > >>queen as a third owner in your boat may save you some seizure > > >>headaches as I doubt they would as easily seize Crown property. > > >> > > >>Just a thought. > > >> > > >>Carl mcIntosh > > >> > > >> > > > > > >Carl , you have me worried . Is this a Joke or correct ? > > >Suppose I am in Florida on a EU sailingboat . > > >Could I be seized if I want to sail to Cuba ? > > >Or is the Cuban embargo only for US cityzens and ships ? > > > > > >Last time I was in Marina Hemingway Cuba , > > >many Canadians seemed extreemly happy in Cuba . > > >Some US sailboats visited . > > >We were invited on board for drinks and returned the > > >invitation , realy nice people . > > >They explained to me , they where not allowed to spent > > >any money in Cuba , nothing more . > > >You have me worried a bit . > > >I also read Brent's advise to sail directly from > > >Canada to Mexico , he must have his reasons . > > >I hope that those who know better inform us that > > >know nothing much : better smart than sorry :-) > > >Thanks in advance. > > > > > >Old Ben > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > >To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats- > unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats- unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > SPONSORED LINKS > British columbia canada Vancouver island Yacht > > --------------------------------- > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > > Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > > --------------------------------- > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > Yahoo! Photos > Got holiday prints? See all the ways to get quality prints in your hands ASAP. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats- unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------- > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > a.. Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web. > > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------- > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > | 10129|10068|2006-01-11 07:08:45|edward_stoneuk|Re: New boat registration for the queen|Colin, I guess the term Crown in Canada, Australia, and New Zealand means their respective governments. As far as I know the Queen does not have an origamiboat so perhaps we are getting a bit off topic. Regards, Ted| 10130|10068|2006-01-11 10:44:02|Michael Casling|Re: New boat registration for the queen|Crown in Canada means Crown Royal a fine brand of rye whiskey. Many old laws will not stand a test under the new Charter. They may appear to be law, but if tested would fail, meaning they are not the law. This is a function of the charter that a lot of folks do not realise. The Queen has, or did have, that big blue boat that ran on a rare fuel mix, so another fuel tanker boat had to follow it, if it was going far. Maybe they should have put sails on it. And that is about as political as I feelt his morning. Michael ----- Original Message ----- From: edward_stoneuk To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2006 4:08 AM Subject: [origamiboats] Re: New boat registration for the queen Colin, I guess the term Crown in Canada, Australia, and New Zealand means their respective governments. As far as I know the Queen does not have an origamiboat so perhaps we are getting a bit off topic. Regards, Ted To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com SPONSORED LINKS British columbia canada Vancouver island Yacht ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS a.. Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web. b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 10131|10083|2006-01-11 12:10:05|GORDON SCHNELL|Re: pilot house retrofit|Ryan You are interested in pilothouse profiles. Here is the profile (or close, anyway) I used on my Brent 40. Gord [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]| 10132|10068|2006-01-11 12:27:07|edward_stoneuk|Re: New boat registration for the queen|Michael, If you Google 'crown land canada' you will see that the term is still used to denote government land. I quote www.lwbc.bc.ca/02land/index.html: Key land statistics for B.C. are: 94% is provincial Crown land (2% of which is covered by fresh water); 1% is federal Crown land (including Indian reserves, defence lands, etc.); 5% is privately owned land. The Royal Yacht Britannia has been sold off and is now a tourist attraction in Edingburgh. Like you say it was expensive to run. Maybe visit www.royalyachtbritannia.co.uk for some grand design ideas for origamiboat interiors. Regards, Ted| 10133|10133|2006-01-11 12:40:10|waldo99inutah|steel boat builders in washington|Can anyone give me contact information with boatbuiders in Washington state familiar with the Swain designs? I am checking out costs of US vs. BC for a project. Thanks, cwa| 10134|10068|2006-01-11 15:08:41|jericoera|Re: New boat registration for the queen|I was right but only about 100 years off by the looks of things. Oh well, certainly an interesting thread anyway. Carl M --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "edward_stoneuk" wrote: > > Colin, > > I guess the term Crown in Canada, Australia, and New Zealand means > their respective governments. As far as I know the Queen does not > have an origamiboat so perhaps we are getting a bit off topic. > > Regards, > Ted > | 10135|10083|2006-01-11 16:05:01|brentswain38|Re: pilot house retrofit|With a 6 ft by long enough sheet you could calculate the angle between the wheelhouse side and the top and have it bent in a brake press. Then you could weld the beams in , with bowstrinngs welded on to maintain their camber,and thus eliminate the top to sides weld. The only fitting and welding you'd have to do would be the front and back, also eliminating much potential for distortion.After fully welding you could remove the flatbar bowstrings. Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, GORDON SCHNELL wrote: > > Ryan > You are interested in pilothouse profiles. Here is the profile (or close, anyway) I used on my Brent 40. > Gord > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > | 10136|10068|2006-01-11 16:13:42|brentswain38|Re: New boat registration for the queen|A Canadian was recently arrested in Mexico because his name was the same as one on Bush's No fly list. A woman found her 4 year old daughter's name was also on the list as was another woman's 9 month old son. When you buy an airline ticket you are not allowed to find out if it's worthless due to the no fly list, nor can you get insurance in case you are on the list.Lets make it an electiom issue to force airlines to insure such tickets. This site is about cruising boats , which is about freeedom to travel wherever we want, which makes this issue very relevant. Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "jericoera" wrote: > > Cuba is not the problem Ben-its getting there through US waters that > is the problem and yes from my understanding of the Patriot Act or > misunderstanding of it., US authorities can seize Canadian vessels > or any other vessel they choose sailing through their waters en > route to Cuba. > > Would they? I don't know, but then again you only have to look at > the people being held against the Geneva convention in Guantamano > without the right to legal representation. That's as close as I get > to politics on this forum but I would do more homework before > heading that direction to Cuba. > > Castro liked Prime Minister Trudeau and even attended his funeral > with some very sleek looking female bodyguards packing guns. I would > not feel worried about visiting Cuba one bit, just getting there. > > Hope that is of some help. You can read the US patriot act online > from my recollection and you can certainly verify Canadian boat > registry and the 1/3 rule belonging to the queen. > > Cheers Carl > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III" wrote: > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "jericoera" > wrote: > > > > > > Be advised that if you register your boat in Canada, you are > being > > > good enough to give one third of it to the queen though I don't > > > believe any private vessels have been comondeered by the royals > > > since WWII. > > > > > > Just so you know you will no longer be the sole owner. Having > said > > > that, if you end up in US waters heading for Cuba and they > decide to > > > seize your boat under the Patriot Act, I would expect having the > > > queen as a third owner in your boat may save you some seizure > > > headaches as I doubt they would as easily seize Crown property. > > > > > > Just a thought. > > > > > > Carl mcIntosh > > > > Carl , you have me worried . Is this a Joke or correct ? > > Suppose I am in Florida on a EU sailingboat . > > Could I be seized if I want to sail to Cuba ? > > Or is the Cuban embargo only for US cityzens and ships ? > > > > Last time I was in Marina Hemingway Cuba , > > many Canadians seemed extreemly happy in Cuba . > > Some US sailboats visited . > > We were invited on board for drinks and returned the > > invitation , realy nice people . > > They explained to me , they where not allowed to spent > > any money in Cuba , nothing more . > > You have me worried a bit . > > I also read Brent's advise to sail directly from > > Canada to Mexico , he must have his reasons . > > I hope that those who know better inform us that > > know nothing much : better smart than sorry :-) > > Thanks in advance. > > > > Old Ben > > > | 10137|10137|2006-01-11 16:23:52|brentswain38|Fuel cells and electric drive|When I saw the price of fuel cells quoted at $3800 I thought " Forget that idea." Then I began to think that a fuel cell for that price combined with the price of an electric motor Alex told me about, plus a few batteries , and you are not that far from the price of a diesel and tranny. If the fuel cell is not powerful enough to run the engine directly, you could run on a combination of fuel cell and battery and let the fuel cell recharge the battery overnight. The cell could be put in the cockpit box to isolate it from the accomodation. It could also be helped out in some degree by wind generators and solar panels. It may be both economically and technically practical.Cheaters could give their boats a hell of a reputation for light air performance with the silence of electric drive. I saw a program on TV a couple of nights ago about the German s31 sub , which, by using fuel cells instead of diesels for recharging ,can run submerged for weeks at a time , possibly making nuclear subs less relevant.So the technology works.Silence and no hot exhuast is also very attractive.Withthe cell in the cockpit, there would be no inside exhuast. Brent| 10138|10137|2006-01-11 16:34:35|Alex Christie|Re: Fuel cells and electric drive|I thought the fuel cell doesn't make any exhaust, isn't that right? So it should be able to be used inside because there is no combustion. I might be "off" on the technology there, of course. Also, do some batteries need venting and some do not? Alex On 11-Jan-06, at 1:23 PM, brentswain38 wrote: > When I saw the price of fuel cells quoted at $3800 I thought " Forget > that idea." Then I began to think that a fuel cell for that price > combined with the price of an electric motor Alex told me about, plus > a > few batteries , and you are not that far from the price of a diesel > and > tranny. If the  fuel cell is not powerful enough to run the engine > directly, you could run on a combination of fuel cell and battery and > let the fuel cell recharge the battery overnight. The cell could be > put > in the cockpit box to isolate it from the accomodation. It could also > be helped out in some degree by wind generators and solar panels. It > may be both economically and technically practical.Cheaters could give > their boats a hell of a reputation for light air performance with the > silence of electric drive. > I saw a program on TV a couple of nights ago about the German s31 > sub , which, by using fuel cells instead of diesels for recharging > ,can > run submerged for weeks at a time , possibly making nuclear subs less > relevant.So the technology works.Silence and no hot exhuast is also > very attractive.Withthe cell in the cockpit, there would be no inside > exhuast. > Brent > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > ▪  Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web. >   > ▪  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >  origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com >   > ▪  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > Service. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 10139|10139|2006-01-11 16:48:43|Alex|posting photos to group1|I opened the photo section again here, folks, as it seems we have room again for it, thanks to Yahoo taking off the storage limit. Alex| 10140|10140|2006-01-11 17:02:38|Alex|under 10 hp licensing|An interesting side note - if your vessel's power is under 10 hp (9.9) you are not required by law to licence the vessel here in British Columbia. Something to consider for anyone building a 26 footer, but no help to someone going offshore and in need of some ID for their boat. Of course, you could always do like some maverick offshore sailors have done and draft up your own official looking papers on parchment to hand over to the very impressed port authorities. It would probably work in many countries that have no means to verify your paperwork, but not so good for places that can and do verify. Alex| 10141|10068|2006-01-11 17:55:41|Puck III|Re: New boat registration for the queen|Hi Ted , a smart idea would be to register your boat anywhere and take a good UK insurance against illegal seizure with a large compensation for moral , immoral and financial losses . A short smart Greek thought of that years ago . When the US had his fishingboats seized , he made millions :-) Quickly released those boats really were . The man grow richer by the day , wich wasn't the real intend of the seazure in the first place. Later the smart Greek maried sort of an American Queen , I keep wondering if that was also a smart move ? Or was he just giving them the mid finger ? Just a thought . Old Ben --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "edward_stoneuk" wrote: > > Michael, > > If you Google 'crown land canada' you will see that the term is > still used to denote government land. I quote > www.lwbc.bc.ca/02land/index.html: > > Key land statistics for B.C. are: > > 94% is provincial Crown land (2% of which is covered by fresh > water); > 1% is federal Crown land (including Indian reserves, defence lands, > etc.); > 5% is privately owned land. > > The Royal Yacht Britannia has been sold off and is now a tourist > attraction in Edingburgh. Like you say it was expensive to run. > Maybe visit www.royalyachtbritannia.co.uk for some grand design > ideas for origamiboat interiors. > > Regards, > Ted > | 10142|10140|2006-01-11 21:19:45|tom|Re: under 10 hp licensing|That is interesting Here in California we pay $10 for two years licence on boats but the kicker is we pay annual property tax on boats, around 1% of the apprased value. This brings up a question If I sail my 26 to another country is the California registration good enough or do I need US documented ? I am wondering why people are scared to sail in US waters from other countries? As long as you do not have a boat load of guns,bombs, or drugs you shouldnt have any problems or worries about getting you boat confinscated. is this not true? Tom ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alex" To: Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2006 2:01 PM Subject: [origamiboats] under 10 hp licensing > An interesting side note - if your vessel's power is under 10 hp (9.9) > you are not required > by law to licence the vessel here in British Columbia. Something to > consider for anyone > building a 26 footer, but no help to someone going offshore and in need of > some ID for > their boat. Of course, you could always do like some maverick offshore > sailors have done > and draft up your own official looking papers on parchment to hand over to > the very > impressed port authorities. It would probably work in many countries that > have no means > to verify your paperwork, but not so good for places that can and do > verify. > > Alex > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > | 10143|10137|2006-01-11 22:22:35|jnikadie|Re: Fuel cells and electric drive|Fuel cells, in their purest form, convert hydrogen and oxygen to water, producing electricy in the process. However, as hydrogen is hard to distribute and store, the type of fuel cell you're likely to find on a boat uses hydrogen from other fuel sources and therefore there is more than pure water produced. Another factor is temperature ... they need to run quite warm (I understand they generate their own heat, but I believe some need to be warmed up to start off) ... there's probably some cooling to be done (although less than an internal combustion engine!). Brent makes an interesting point ... worth looking into. --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Alex Christie wrote: > > I thought the fuel cell doesn't make any exhaust, isn't that right? So > it should be able to be used inside because there is no combustion. I > might be "off" on the technology there, of course. Also, do some > batteries need venting and some do not? > > Alex > > > On 11-Jan-06, at 1:23 PM, brentswain38 wrote: > > > When I saw the price of fuel cells quoted at $3800 I thought " Forget > > that idea." Then I began to think that a fuel cell for that price > > combined with the price of an electric motor Alex told me about, plus > > a > > few batteries , and you are not that far from the price of a diesel > > and > > tranny. If the fuel cell is not powerful enough to run the engine > > directly, you could run on a combination of fuel cell and battery and > > let the fuel cell recharge the battery overnight. The cell could be > > put > > in the cockpit box to isolate it from the accomodation. It could also > > be helped out in some degree by wind generators and solar panels. It > > may be both economically and technically practical.Cheaters could give > > their boats a hell of a reputation for light air performance with the > > silence of electric drive. > > I saw a program on TV a couple of nights ago about the German s31 > > sub , which, by using fuel cells instead of diesels for recharging > > ,can > > run submerged for weeks at a time , possibly making nuclear subs less > > relevant.So the technology works.Silence and no hot exhuast is also > > very attractive.Withthe cell in the cockpit, there would be no inside > > exhuast. > > Brent > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to:  origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > > > ▪  Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web. > >  > > ▪  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > >  origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > >  > > ▪  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > > Service. > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > | 10144|10140|2006-01-12 05:42:32|sae140|Re: under 10 hp licensing|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "tom" wrote: > > I am wondering why people are scared to sail in US waters from other > countries? As long as you do not have a boat load of guns,bombs, or drugs > you shouldnt have any problems or worries about getting you boat > confinscated. is this not true? > Tom I think it's a question of perception. From abroad, the American establishment appears to be obsessed with security issues, patriotism and similar matters. In addition, the US security services have a known history of 'playing dirty' - CIA dirty tricks campaigns, Guantanimo Bay, and more recently US prisoners have been secretly moved to dubious countries in order to be interrogated/tortured outside of US territory. I think these and similar perceptions combine to create a very understandable concern that should an unlucky traveller inadvertently fall foul of some US regulation or other, then they may well be subjected to unfair, unreasonable and possibly unpleasant treatment at the hands of over-zealous security personnel, who may decide to "play by their own rules" and might even adopt a "shoot first - ask questions later" approach. In short - America is advertising itself as one of the most unwelcoming countries in the world. Would I be scared to sail in US waters ? YES. Colin| 10145|10140|2006-01-12 06:37:44|edward_stoneuk|Re: under 10 hp licensing US Waters|> I think it's a question of perception. From abroad, the American > establishment appears to be obsessed with security issues, patriotism > and similar matters. In addition, the US security services have a > known history of 'playing dirty' - CIA dirty tricks campaigns, > Guantanimo Bay, and more recently US prisoners have been secretly > moved to dubious countries in order to be interrogated/tortured > outside of US territory. > I think these and similar perceptions combine to create a very > understandable concern that should an unlucky traveller inadvertently > fall foul of some US regulation or other, then they may well be > subjected to unfair, unreasonable and possibly unpleasant treatment > at the hands of over-zealous security personnel, who may decide to > "play by their own rules" and might even adopt a "shoot first - ask > questions later" approach. > > In short - America is advertising itself as one of the most > unwelcoming countries in the world. > > Would I be scared to sail in US waters ? YES. Colin, I have only been met with kindness in North America, although I haven't sailed there. One problem is the extra cost of third party insurance for ones boat for US waters. As the story goes when told of the exta cost the UK boat owner asked his insurance broker " Why, do they have more accidents there?" The answer was "No, they have more lawyers." Regards, Ted| 10146|10068|2006-01-12 07:00:36|edward_stoneuk|Re: New boat registration for the queen|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III" wrote: > > Hi Ted , a smart idea would be to register your boat > anywhere and take a good UK insurance against illegal > seizure with a large compensation for moral , > immoral and financial losses . > > A short smart Greek thought of that years ago . > When the US had his fishingboats seized , > he made millions :-) > Quickly released those boats really were . > The man grow richer by the day , wich wasn't > the real intend of the seazure in the first place. > > Later the smart Greek maried sort of an American Queen , > I keep wondering if that was also a smart move ? > Or was he just giving them the mid finger ? > > Just a thought . > Old Ben Hi Ben, Insurance for immoral losses? Now there's a thing. I have vaguely thought of registering in Eire so that I could sail with an Irish flag and so avoid the attention of folks who hate the British. So I understand the green (Roman Catholic) white (Peace) and orange (Protestant) Irish tricolour was chosen to represent the different communities much the same as the Indian flag where the green (Moslem) white (Peace) and orange (Hindu) was designed for similar reasons. I guess Irish Catholics like green because it represents the colour of their Emerald island and Moslems because it represents the colour they would like their desert lands to be. As far as I know Aristotle Onassis never had an origamiboat, probably he ahd never heard of them. My favourite story, one that shows the scope of his business was when his whaling fleet was sailing down off the coast of Ecuador water towards Antartic waters. The Ecuadorian government had just increased their territorial limit and the whaling fleet was sailing in it so it was seized by the Ecuadorian Navy using warships that Onassis had sold them a year or two before. Regards, Ted| 10147|10068|2006-01-12 10:41:34|Michael Casling|Re: New boat registration for the queen|Why not use the Isle of Man. Oldest parliamentary democracy, stable society, even has the moemcycle races. Does not tax investment accounts held by foreigners. Not a lot of good harbours though. St Michaels is a fairly expose place along the water. Michael ----- Original Message ----- From: edward_stoneuk To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2006 4:00 AM Subject: [origamiboats] Re: New boat registration for the queen Hi Ben, Insurance for immoral losses? Now there's a thing. I have vaguely thought of registering in Eire so that I could sail with an Irish flag and so avoid the attention of folks who hate the British. So I understand the green (Roman Catholic) white (Peace) and orange (Protestant) Irish tricolour was chosen to represent the different communities much the same as the Indian flag where the green (Moslem) white (Peace) and orange (Hindu) was designed for similar reasons. I guess Irish Catholics like green because it represents the colour of their Emerald island and Moslems because it represents the colour they would like their desert lands to be. As far as I know Aristotle Onassis never had an origamiboat, probably he ahd never heard of them. My favourite story, one that shows the scope of his business was when his whaling fleet was sailing down off the coast of Ecuador water towards Antartic waters. The Ecuadorian government had just increased their territorial limit and the whaling fleet was sailing in it so it was seized by the Ecuadorian Navy using warships that Onassis had sold them a year or two before. Regards, Ted To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com SPONSORED LINKS British columbia canada Vancouver island Yacht ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS a.. Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web. b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 10148|10068|2006-01-12 11:35:11|sae140|Re: New boat registration for the queen|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Michael Casling wrote: > > Why not use the Isle of Man. Oldest parliamentary democracy, stable society, even has the moemcycle races. > Does not tax investment accounts held by foreigners. All good positives - but sadly the IoM marine flag is a defaced Red Ensign, so still recognisably British. A Euro-flag would be neat - maybe one day ? > I have vaguely thought of registering in Eire so that > I could sail with an Irish flag Ireland - now there's a country with the most hospitable authorities one could ever wish to encounter. Good sailing too. Highly recommended. Colin| 10149|10140|2006-01-12 15:54:46|brentswain38|Re: under 10 hp licensing US Waters|Simple solution, give it a miss. Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "edward_stoneuk" wrote: > > > I think it's a question of perception. From abroad, the American > > establishment appears to be obsessed with security issues, > patriotism > > and similar matters. In addition, the US security services have a > > known history of 'playing dirty' - CIA dirty tricks campaigns, > > Guantanimo Bay, and more recently US prisoners have been secretly > > moved to dubious countries in order to be interrogated/tortured > > outside of US territory. > > I think these and similar perceptions combine to create a very > > understandable concern that should an unlucky traveller > inadvertently > > fall foul of some US regulation or other, then they may well be > > subjected to unfair, unreasonable and possibly unpleasant > treatment > > at the hands of over-zealous security personnel, who may decide to > > "play by their own rules" and might even adopt a "shoot first - ask > > questions later" approach. > > > > In short - America is advertising itself as one of the most > > unwelcoming countries in the world. > > > > Would I be scared to sail in US waters ? YES. > > Colin, > > I have only been met with kindness in North America, although I > haven't sailed there. One problem is the extra cost of third party > insurance for ones boat for US waters. As the story goes when told > of the exta cost the UK boat owner asked his insurance broker " Why, > do they have more accidents there?" The answer was "No, they have > more lawyers." > > Regards, > Ted > | 10150|10137|2006-01-12 16:01:53|brentswain38|Re: Fuel cells and electric drive|If it ran on diesel it would be OK but I hear some run on propane or gas which would make the outside position better, Is there a diesel version? Perhaps the new hybrid cars can eliminate the infernal destruction engine by replacing it with a fuel cell, for less money. When the auto industry starts using them en mass the price will drop rapidly. When they replace the portable generator the price will drop rapidly. Theoretically bateries need venting, but the amount of hydrogen produced is tiny so I haven't worried about it.Hydrogen mixed with air goes poof when you light it. Hydrogen mixed witn pure oxygen goes bang like a stick of dinamite. It sure would be nice to have a means of propulsion that you can replace the fuel for at sea with a wind generator or solar panel. The use of gas or diesel could be drastically reduced . Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Alex Christie wrote: > > I thought the fuel cell doesn't make any exhaust, isn't that right? So > it should be able to be used inside because there is no combustion. I > might be "off" on the technology there, of course. Also, do some > batteries need venting and some do not? > > Alex > > > On 11-Jan-06, at 1:23 PM, brentswain38 wrote: > > > When I saw the price of fuel cells quoted at $3800 I thought " Forget > > that idea." Then I began to think that a fuel cell for that price > > combined with the price of an electric motor Alex told me about, plus > > a > > few batteries , and you are not that far from the price of a diesel > > and > > tranny. If the  fuel cell is not powerful enough to run the engine > > directly, you could run on a combination of fuel cell and battery and > > let the fuel cell recharge the battery overnight. The cell could be > > put > > in the cockpit box to isolate it from the accomodation. It could also > > be helped out in some degree by wind generators and solar panels. It > > may be both economically and technically practical.Cheaters could give > > their boats a hell of a reputation for light air performance with the > > silence of electric drive. > > I saw a program on TV a couple of nights ago about the German s31 > > sub , which, by using fuel cells instead of diesels for recharging > > ,can > > run submerged for weeks at a time , possibly making nuclear subs less > > relevant.So the technology works.Silence and no hot exhuast is also > > very attractive.Withthe cell in the cockpit, there would be no inside > > exhuast. > > Brent > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > > > ▪  Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web. > >   > > ▪  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > >  origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > >   > > ▪  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > > Service. > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > | 10151|10140|2006-01-12 16:09:22|brentswain38|Re: under 10 hp licensing|Vessels under ten HP or 20 tons require niether registry nor K number, in effect nothing, which is what I'd have if I were staying in home waters. I'd only get a K number on such a boat at the last minute as I was leaving for offshore waters, which is what I did for my boat.In the early 70's a guy at the Canadian registry of shipping told me that I needed neither for offshore cruising as well. which is what I had. I sailed from BC to Frisco, French polynesia, Cook Islands, New Zealand, New Caledonia, new Hebridies, and Fiji with no problem. In Tahiti the customs man got a bit uptight about it, but the Port Captain told him to forget about it .Web Chiles sailed most of the way around the world with no paper on his boat. I believe the ten HP is what you have left after it goes thru your tranny , making a slightly bigger engine allowable at the engine end. Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Alex" wrote: > > An interesting side note - if your vessel's power is under 10 hp (9.9) you are not required > by law to licence the vessel here in British Columbia. Something to consider for anyone > building a 26 footer, but no help to someone going offshore and in need of some ID for > their boat. Of course, you could always do like some maverick offshore sailors have done > and draft up your own official looking papers on parchment to hand over to the very > impressed port authorities. It would probably work in many countries that have no means > to verify your paperwork, but not so good for places that can and do verify. > > Alex > | 10152|10140|2006-01-12 16:17:02|Michael Casling|Re: under 10 hp licensing|I did not register my 28 foot boat with the 15hp diesel. When I went to the customs office to enquire about registering they were more concerend about the Provincial tax money than they were about the K numbers. I told them that tax collection was not their job, nor their mandate. He said no tax info, no K number, so I do not have a K number. My motor is not visible. If asked I will say it is less than 10 usable hp. Michael ----- Original Message ----- From: brentswain38 To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2006 1:08 PM Subject: [origamiboats] Re: under 10 hp licensing Vessels under ten HP or 20 tons require niether registry nor K number, in effect nothing, which is what I'd have if I were staying in home waters. I'd only get a K number on such a boat at the last minute as I was leaving for offshore waters, which is what I did for my boat.In the early 70's a guy at the Canadian registry of shipping told me that I needed neither for offshore cruising as well. which is what I had. I sailed from BC to Frisco, French polynesia, Cook Islands, New Zealand, New Caledonia, new Hebridies, and Fiji with no problem. In Tahiti the customs man got a bit uptight about it, but the Port Captain told him to forget about it .Web Chiles sailed most of the way around the world with no paper on his boat. I believe the ten HP is what you have left after it goes thru your tranny , making a slightly bigger engine allowable at the engine end. Brent [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 10153|10140|2006-01-12 16:19:54|brentswain38|Re: under 10 hp licensing|Some counties in California tax you wherever the boat is, some don't. Do your research.Oregon or Alaska registry may be agood option. I see little powerboats owned by yanks in Ensenada with Grand Cayman on the stern as the port of Regiistry. The legal industry everywhere convicts a lot of innocent people.Justice is largely a commodity available only to those with the ability to purchase it thru a good lawyer. Judgements of guilt or innocence could thus be just as accurately deternmined by accountants looking at the resources available to the accused, and proclaiming them guilty or innocent based on how much money they have. Your state number is good in most places except Martinique where I've heard of people having problems with it. Does any one know if a boat built in Canada can be registered offshore without affecting the ability to keep the boat in Canada indefinitly, given that it is Canadian Built? Or is that option only available to the Paul Martins of this world? Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "tom" wrote: > > That is interesting > Here in California we pay $10 for two years licence on boats but the kicker > is we pay annual property tax on boats, around 1% of the apprased value. > This brings up a question If I sail my 26 to another country is the > California registration good enough or do I need US documented ? > I am wondering why people are scared to sail in US waters from other > countries? As long as you do not have a boat load of guns,bombs, or drugs > you shouldnt have any problems or worries about getting you boat > confinscated. is this not true? > Tom > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Alex" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2006 2:01 PM > Subject: [origamiboats] under 10 hp licensing > > > > An interesting side note - if your vessel's power is under 10 hp (9.9) > > you are not required > > by law to licence the vessel here in British Columbia. Something to > > consider for anyone > > building a 26 footer, but no help to someone going offshore and in need of > > some ID for > > their boat. Of course, you could always do like some maverick offshore > > sailors have done > > and draft up your own official looking papers on parchment to hand over to > > the very > > impressed port authorities. It would probably work in many countries that > > have no means > > to verify your paperwork, but not so good for places that can and do > > verify. > > > > Alex > > > > > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > | 10154|10137|2006-01-12 16:21:33|Michael Casling|Re: Fuel cells and electric drive|The financial geniuses that follow this sort of thing tell me that the real benefit of fuel cells will be for producing power for houses, particularly in remote areas. Electricity is said to have had the greatest influence on the standed of living. But fuel cells still have the problem with the production of fuel supply. One way or another I think we are headed that direction. We can also grow our energy sources in Canada, but the oil is cheaper and available. You and I are not contributing too much polution with our boats, but the thousands of belch mobiles used as daily drivers sure are. Michael ----- Original Message ----- From: brentswain38 To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2006 1:01 PM Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Fuel cells and electric drive If it ran on diesel it would be OK but I hear some run on propane or gas which would make the outside position better, Is there a diesel version? Perhaps the new hybrid cars can eliminate the infernal destruction engine by replacing it with a fuel cell, for less money. When the auto industry starts using them en mass the price will drop rapidly. When they replace the portable generator the price will drop rapidly. Theoretically bateries need venting, but the amount of hydrogen produced is tiny so I haven't worried about it.Hydrogen mixed with air goes poof when you light it. Hydrogen mixed witn pure oxygen goes bang like a stick of dinamite. It sure would be nice to have a means of propulsion that you can replace the fuel for at sea with a wind generator or solar panel. The use of gas or diesel could be drastically reduced . Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Alex Christie wrote: > > I thought the fuel cell doesn't make any exhaust, isn't that right? So > it should be able to be used inside because there is no combustion. I > might be "off" on the technology there, of course. Also, do some > batteries need venting and some do not? > > Alex > > > On 11-Jan-06, at 1:23 PM, brentswain38 wrote: > > > When I saw the price of fuel cells quoted at $3800 I thought " Forget > > that idea." Then I began to think that a fuel cell for that price > > combined with the price of an electric motor Alex told me about, plus > > a > > few batteries , and you are not that far from the price of a diesel > > and > > tranny. If the fuel cell is not powerful enough to run the engine > > directly, you could run on a combination of fuel cell and battery and > > let the fuel cell recharge the battery overnight. The cell could be > > put > > in the cockpit box to isolate it from the accomodation. It could also > > be helped out in some degree by wind generators and solar panels. It > > may be both economically and technically practical.Cheaters could give > > their boats a hell of a reputation for light air performance with the > > silence of electric drive. > > I saw a program on TV a couple of nights ago about the German s31 > > sub , which, by using fuel cells instead of diesels for recharging > > ,can > > run submerged for weeks at a time , possibly making nuclear subs less > > relevant.So the technology works.Silence and no hot exhuast is also > > very attractive.Withthe cell in the cockpit, there would be no inside > > exhuast. > > Brent > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to:  origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > > > â-ª  Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web. > >  > > â-ª  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > >  origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > >  > > â-ª  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > > Service. > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com SPONSORED LINKS British columbia canada Vancouver island Yacht ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS a.. Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web. b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 10155|10140|2006-01-12 16:25:30|Michael Casling|Re: under 10 hp licensing|Every man is innocent until proven broke. Obviously you have not heard of jurespudence. Six months for her too. All from a BC comic book, the one with the short ass king. Michael ----- Original Message ----- From: brentswain38 To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2006 1:18 PM Subject: [origamiboats] Re: under 10 hp licensing Some counties in California tax you wherever the boat is, some don't. Do your research.Oregon or Alaska registry may be agood option. I see little powerboats owned by yanks in Ensenada with Grand Cayman on the stern as the port of Regiistry. The legal industry everywhere convicts a lot of innocent people.Justice is largely a commodity available only to those with the ability to purchase it thru a good lawyer. Judgements of guilt or innocence could thus be just as accurately deternmined by accountants looking at the resources available to the accused, and proclaiming them guilty or innocent based on how much money they have. Your state number is good in most places except Martinique where I've heard of people having problems with it. Does any one know if a boat built in Canada can be registered offshore without affecting the ability to keep the boat in Canada indefinitly, given that it is Canadian Built? Or is that option only available to the Paul Martins of this world? Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "tom" wrote: > > That is interesting > Here in California we pay $10 for two years licence on boats but the kicker > is we pay annual property tax on boats, around 1% of the apprased value. > This brings up a question If I sail my 26 to another country is the > California registration good enough or do I need US documented ? > I am wondering why people are scared to sail in US waters from other > countries? As long as you do not have a boat load of guns,bombs, or drugs > you shouldnt have any problems or worries about getting you boat > confinscated. is this not true? > Tom > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Alex" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2006 2:01 PM > Subject: [origamiboats] under 10 hp licensing > > > > An interesting side note - if your vessel's power is under 10 hp (9.9) > > you are not required > > by law to licence the vessel here in British Columbia. Something to > > consider for anyone > > building a 26 footer, but no help to someone going offshore and in need of > > some ID for > > their boat. Of course, you could always do like some maverick offshore > > sailors have done > > and draft up your own official looking papers on parchment to hand over to > > the very > > impressed port authorities. It would probably work in many countries that > > have no means > > to verify your paperwork, but not so good for places that can and do > > verify. > > > > Alex > > > > > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS a.. Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web. b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 10156|10068|2006-01-12 16:26:08|brentswain38|Re: New boat registration for the queen|An accountant told me that if you are physically present in the Isle of Mann only three months a year, you are considered a resident.Many use this to avoid taxes from elsewhere. Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Michael Casling wrote: > > Why not use the Isle of Man. Oldest parliamentary democracy, stable society, even has the moemcycle races. > Does not tax investment accounts held by foreigners. > Not a lot of good harbours though. St Michaels is a fairly expose place along the water. > > Michael > ----- Original Message ----- > From: edward_stoneuk > To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2006 4:00 AM > Subject: [origamiboats] Re: New boat registration for the queen > > > > Hi Ben, > > Insurance for immoral losses? Now there's a thing. I have vaguely > thought of registering in Eire so that I could sail with an Irish > flag and so avoid the attention of folks who hate the British. So I > understand the green (Roman Catholic) white (Peace) and orange > (Protestant) Irish tricolour was chosen to represent the different > communities much the same as the Indian flag where the green > (Moslem) white (Peace) and orange (Hindu) was designed for similar > reasons. I guess Irish Catholics like green because it represents > the colour of their Emerald island and Moslems because it represents > the colour they would like their desert lands to be. > > As far as I know Aristotle Onassis never had an origamiboat, > probably he ahd never heard of them. My favourite story, one that > shows the scope of his business was when his whaling fleet was > sailing down off the coast of Ecuador water towards Antartic > waters. The Ecuadorian government had just increased their > territorial limit and the whaling fleet was sailing in it so it was > seized by the Ecuadorian Navy using warships that Onassis had sold > them a year or two before. > > Regards, > Ted > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats- unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > SPONSORED LINKS British columbia canada Vancouver island Yacht > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------- > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > a.. Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web. > > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------- > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > | 10157|10068|2006-01-12 16:43:36|Michael Casling|Re: New boat registration for the queen|Canadians can invest in the Isle of Man from Canada. You just need a registered agent, like me. There are restrictions for US citizens investing in the IOM and other places. It is a nice place for those that have not been there. The bike races are in June, ferry leaves from Liverpool and other places. Michael ----- Original Message ----- From: brentswain38 To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2006 1:25 PM Subject: [origamiboats] Re: New boat registration for the queen An accountant told me that if you are physically present in the Isle of Mann only three months a year, you are considered a resident.Many use this to avoid taxes from elsewhere. Brent [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 10158|10137|2006-01-12 17:47:29|racer577@citystar.com|Re: Fuel cells and electric drive|Brent, the fuel cells that I have seen run on methonol. I also saw the article you mentioned originaly, but cant remember which glossy mag it was in. John > If it ran on diesel it would be OK but I hear some run on propane or > gas which would make the outside position better, Is there a diesel > version? > Perhaps the new hybrid cars can eliminate the infernal destruction > engine by replacing it with a fuel cell, for less money. When the > auto industry starts using them en mass the price will drop rapidly. > When they replace the portable generator the price will drop rapidly. > Theoretically bateries need venting, but the amount of hydrogen > produced is tiny so I haven't worried about it.Hydrogen mixed with > air goes poof when you light it. Hydrogen mixed witn pure oxygen goes > bang like a stick of dinamite. > It sure would be nice to have a means of propulsion that you can > replace the fuel for at sea with a wind generator or solar panel. The > use of gas or diesel could be drastically reduced . > Brent > | 10159|10159|2006-01-12 18:07:48|Puck III|Escape info|Escaping in an Origami boat ??? http://www.escapeartist.com/ I receive their newsletter . I received the books . interesting ? nice photos + some good reading decide for yourself :-) Old Ben| 10160|10068|2006-01-12 21:42:18|Puck III|Re: New boat registration for the Queen|The Queen of the Levant won the harts in Europe , http://www.pfc.org.uk/news/1997/dana-hz.htm I like playing Poker , it's an Art . the Queen of Harts is just a card !!! Watching the Queen as an Art Lover Old Ben Do not look at the next links if you think it's to shocking :-) just more pics of the same .... ( fill it in ) http://www.divastation.com/dana_international/international_bio.html http://membres.lycos.fr/maganuna/ --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Michael Casling wrote: > > Canadians can invest in the Isle of Man from Canada. You just need a registered agent, like me. > There are restrictions for US citizens investing in the IOM and other places. > It is a nice place for those that have not been there. The bike races are in June, ferry leaves from Liverpool and other places. > > Michael > ----- Original Message ----- > From: brentswain38 > To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2006 1:25 PM > Subject: [origamiboats] Re: New boat registration for the queen > > > An accountant told me that if you are physically present in the Isle > of Mann only three months a year, you are considered a resident.Many > use this to avoid taxes from elsewhere. > Brent > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > | 10161|10068|2006-01-12 23:27:37|Puck III|The Queen - Flaming - Being Banned or ending up Moderated .|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III" wrote: > > The Queen of the Levant won the harts in Europe , > http://www.pfc.org.uk/news/1997/dana-hz.htm > I like playing Poker , it's an Art . > the Queen of Harts is just a card !!! > > Watching the Queen as an Art Lover > Old Ben > > Do not look at the next links if you think it's to shocking :-) > just more pics of the same .... ( fill it in ) > > http://www.divastation.com/dana_international/international_bio.html > http://membres.lycos.fr/maganuna/ > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Michael Casling > wrote: > > > > Canadians can invest in the Isle of Man from Canada. You just need > a registered agent, like me. > > There are restrictions for US citizens investing in the IOM and > other places. > > It is a nice place for those that have not been there. The bike > races are in June, ferry leaves from Liverpool and other places. > > > > Michael ----------------------------------------------------- Hi Guys , banning myself for a week , seems a good idea ! I had it comming ........... Playing the smart-ass....... Was that smart ??? I Bann myself for a week , working on a New Innovating Origami Multi will keep me Cooool for a while . I had the place for the pics allready prepared : http://www.buildingyourboat.com/tiki-galleries.php do not look , aint much for now . Find that innovating new idea in : http://groups.yahoo.com/group/proa_file/ where I am banned for a week . Was I smart to post : Please , keep the name International . re : the Links in the Queen's post . am I becoming a " compulsive poster " do I need urgent help ??? Benny It sure wasn't smart , I am becoming OLD Old Ben| 10162|10162|2006-01-13 02:08:27|poussinpetit|Why metal? Navigator's experience?|Hi! I'm new to the list, contemplating to buy a boat for cruising in the Pacific. I had not thought about a metal boat but found a Swain 37 for sale not far from where I live. Could somebody give me some good reasons to go for metal instead of the more usual fiberglass, as well as some of the disadvantages metal is likely to have (as there is no perfect material to build a boat)? On another matter, I would be glad to read your experience as navigator of a Swain of around 36ft (I am puzzled by the one I saw which seems to be 37ft). I guess these questions have been asked often, so you can give me links to places where I can find answers. Aloha, Chris| 10163|10068|2006-01-13 05:54:38|Denis Buggy|Re: New boat registration for the queen|dear ted as this is a boat forum i must tell you of a onassis marine custom when entertaining female guests in his boat " christina" ( now irish owned and for charter ) they were personally invited to sit on unusual tall white bar furniture and during the course of the evening were informed in "aris " own style that they were sitting on the foreskins of young whales, if he were poor he would be locked up for that . re your flags ,, ireland and india share a common history and a similar flag , we both had to expel a un welcome guest and ruler as did the usof a , i have travelled in india and they like us do not see themselves as partizan colours on a flag , the old irish flag was beautiful it had a gold harp on a green background to show that music , freedom and true culture should dominate all , there could not exist religious bigotry on such a flags landscape and no room was left for it , the present flag must reflect the division which was deliberatly created to divide and rule the island and we must wave a flag of intolerance until it fades from memory . denis , castle comer kilkenny ireland ----- Original Message ----- From: edward_stoneuk To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2006 12:00 PM Subject: [origamiboats] Re: New boat registration for the queen --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III" wrote: > > Hi Ted , a smart idea would be to register your boat > anywhere and take a good UK insurance against illegal > seizure with a large compensation for moral , > immoral and financial losses . > > A short smart Greek thought of that years ago . > When the US had his fishingboats seized , > he made millions :-) > Quickly released those boats really were . > The man grow richer by the day , wich wasn't > the real intend of the seazure in the first place. > > Later the smart Greek maried sort of an American Queen , > I keep wondering if that was also a smart move ? > Or was he just giving them the mid finger ? > > Just a thought . > Old Ben Hi Ben, Insurance for immoral losses? Now there's a thing. I have vaguely thought of registering in Eire so that I could sail with an Irish flag and so avoid the attention of folks who hate the British. So I understand the green (Roman Catholic) white (Peace) and orange (Protestant) Irish tricolour was chosen to represent the different communities much the same as the Indian flag where the green (Moslem) white (Peace) and orange (Hindu) was designed for similar reasons. I guess Irish Catholics like green because it represents the colour of their Emerald island and Moslems because it represents the colour they would like their desert lands to be. As far as I know Aristotle Onassis never had an origamiboat, probably he ahd never heard of them. My favourite story, one that shows the scope of his business was when his whaling fleet was sailing down off the coast of Ecuador water towards Antartic waters. The Ecuadorian government had just increased their territorial limit and the whaling fleet was sailing in it so it was seized by the Ecuadorian Navy using warships that Onassis had sold them a year or two before. Regards, Ted To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com SPONSORED LINKS British columbia canada Vancouver island Yacht ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS a.. Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web. b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 10164|10068|2006-01-13 11:34:30|edward_stoneuk|Re: New boat registration for the queen|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Denis Buggy" wrote: > > dear ted > as this is a boat forum i must tell you of a onassis marine custom when entertaining female guests in his boat " christina" ( now irish owned and for charter ) they were personally invited to sit on unusual tall white bar furniture and during the course of the evening were informed in "aris " own style that they were sitting on the foreskins of young whales, if he were poor he would be locked up for that . Dennis, Now there's an idea for an origamiboat interior. I couldn't see any on Ebay though. Yes the gold harp on a green background made a beautiful flag. I read on the web, so it may be true that the green white orange tricolour was fist displayed in public in 1848 by Thomas Meagher| 10165|10165|2006-01-13 12:07:14|Jim Ragsdale|Estimate of the number of origami hulls built|I'm curios, can anyone give an estimate of the number of origami hulls built? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]| 10166|10068|2006-01-13 12:22:18|edward_stoneuk|Re: New boat registration for the queen|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "edward_stoneuk" wrote: > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Denis Buggy" > wrote: > > > > dear ted > > as this is a boat forum i must tell you of a > onassis marine custom when entertaining female guests in his > boat " christina" ( now irish owned and for charter ) they were > personally invited to sit on unusual tall white bar furniture and > during the course of the evening were informed in "aris " own style > that they were sitting on the foreskins of young whales, if he were > poor he would be locked up for that . > > > > Dennis, > Now there's an idea for an origamiboat interior. I couldn't see any > on Ebay though. > > Yes the gold harp on a green background made a beautiful flag. I > read on the web, so it may be true that the green white orange > tricolour was fist displayed in public in 1848 by Thomas Meagher > Ooops, I clicked the wrong button, sorry about that. Off it all went without even saying goodbye. Thomas Meagher was transported to the penal colony in Tasmania because of his revolutionary activities. He escaped to New York, became a lawyer and then a General in the Union army during the Civil War. He was appointed secretary of Montana Territory in 1865 and served as temporary governor but his rule was unpopular. He drowned in the Missouri River near Fort Benton while awaiting a shipment of weapons for the Montana militia. I am sure that wouldn't of happened if he'd had an origamiboat. I wonder if he realised the irony of his life. From a nationalist revolutionary kicking against foreign landords and government to a official of government that with the Homestead Act of three years earlier had set about disposessing the native americans folk from their lands for use by foreign settlers. My understanding is that the partition of Ireland was not at the instigation of the British Government who has ruled Ireland as one island and wanted to let it go as but due to the pressure brought by Carson and his bowler hatted Orangemen. Similarly in India partition was due to local political pressure. In truth I should be working on my boat and not writing this sad stuff but its cold and dark out there. Regards, Ted| 10167|10162|2006-01-13 12:26:30|kingsknight4life|Re: Why metal? Navigator's experience?|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "poussinpetit" wrote: > > Hi! > > I'm new to the list, contemplating to buy a boat for cruising in the > Pacific. I had not thought about a metal boat but found a Swain 37 for > sale not far from where I live. Could somebody give me some good > reasons to go for metal instead of the more usual fiberglass, as well > as some of the disadvantages metal is likely to have (as there is no > perfect material to build a boat)? > > On another matter, I would be glad to read your experience as > navigator of a Swain of around 36ft (I am puzzled by the one I saw > which seems to be 37ft). > > I guess these questions have been asked often, so you can give me > links to places where I can find answers. > > Aloha, > Chris > Hi Chris and welcome aboard. Are you in Hawaii by chance? I saw one for sale on Yachtworld and it was listed as a 37', it was in Honolulu? I think it is a 36' though. I think the overall length of the hull of these boats is just over 36 feet so that is why its probably listed as a 37. As far as advantages and disadvantages go there are many posts on here discussing both, especially early on. Check the archives. To sum it up very quickly these boats are built for longevity and if done right for minimal maintenance. They sail very well, in the fact that they are well balanced, fast and have no weather helm. They are also designed and built to be used and the systems, deck layout and other features reflect this. ie. pilot houses, wide side decks, skeg hung rudders etc. The disadvantges is that some people don't like metal boats. They "can" rust but with modern coatings and being designed with minimal areas that are prone to paint chipping, this is not as big a problem assome would make you believe. All boats will have some maintenace. These boats are also usually very dry and warm, due to being insulated and deck fittings are welded on instead of passing through the deck. Again your best bet is scanning the old posts. Good luck with your search. Rowland| 10168|10165|2006-01-13 12:27:18|kingsknight4life|Re: Estimate of the number of origami hulls built|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Jim Ragsdale" wrote: > > I'm curios, can anyone give an estimate of the number of origami hulls > built? Not exactly sure but I remember reading on here or hearing from Brent that there are over 100 now? Brent or Evan probably know the closest as they build or help build lots of them. > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > | 10169|10165|2006-01-13 16:31:28|brentswain38|Re: Estimate of the number of origami hulls built|Probably roughly around 150 to my designs Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Jim Ragsdale" wrote: > > I'm curios, can anyone give an estimate of the number of origami hulls > built? > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > | 10170|10162|2006-01-13 16:31:37|brentswain38|Re: Why metal? Navigator's experience?|Over 10,000 steel cargo conntainers get washed off the decks of freighters every year. Many remain afloat for a long time . Collision with one of these containers , at night or in poor visibility, will almost certainly hole and possibly sink a non metal boat, but will do nothing more that slightly dent a properly built steel boat if it will even do that much dammage. A scratch in the paint job is probably all that willl happen. One ocasionally hears of boats being sunk by whales, something that is almost impossible with a steel boat. One of my 36 footers spent 16 days on a lee shore on the west coast of baja in 8 ft surf on a hard packed sand beach. It was winched off thru 8 ft surf , being lifted and dropped every wave for 1/4 mile with minimum dammage. A non metal boat would have broke up in 20 minutes in the same conditions. A 40 ft Joshua class boat hit the beach in Spain where it endured one gale after another with winds of up to 80 knots . When the weather settled down the crew went back aboard and found dust in the bilges. No dammage whatever.Again a non metal boat would have totally broken up in 20 minutes. In Jimmy Cornell's book "Modern Ocean Cruising," 8 out of 10 circumnavigators said they would prefer a metal boat for their next boat and two had already started them. One client who had sailed a fibreglasss boat to Fiji and back to BC said that on his last trip, being in a steel boat ,when sailing at hull speed on a dark moonless noght the improvement in peace of mind iver a fibreglass boat was huge, especially with family aboard. The maintenance on my boat is around an hour a year.Fibreglass boats may be less maintenance at the dock, but when cruising full time and thus subjecting them to much harsher treatment, their maintenance may well be higher. Welded down hardware doesn't break or work loose and doesn't develop leaks like the hardware bolted onto a fibreglas boat. Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "kingsknight4life" wrote: > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "poussinpetit" > wrote: > > > > Hi! > > > > I'm new to the list, contemplating to buy a boat for cruising in > the > > Pacific. I had not thought about a metal boat but found a Swain 37 > for > > sale not far from where I live. Could somebody give me some good > > reasons to go for metal instead of the more usual fiberglass, as > well > > as some of the disadvantages metal is likely to have (as there is > no > > perfect material to build a boat)? > > > > On another matter, I would be glad to read your experience as > > navigator of a Swain of around 36ft (I am puzzled by the one I saw > > which seems to be 37ft). > > > > I guess these questions have been asked often, so you can give me > > links to places where I can find answers. > > > > Aloha, > > Chris > > > Hi Chris and welcome aboard. > > Are you in Hawaii by chance? I saw one for sale on Yachtworld and it > was listed as a 37', it was in Honolulu? I think it is a 36' though. > I think the overall length of the hull of these boats is just over > 36 feet so that is why its probably listed as a 37. > > As far as advantages and disadvantages go there are many posts on > here discussing both, especially early on. Check the archives. To > sum it up very quickly these boats are built for longevity and if > done right for minimal maintenance. They sail very well, in the fact > that they are well balanced, fast and have no weather helm. They are > also designed and built to be used and the systems, deck layout and > other features reflect this. ie. pilot houses, wide side decks, skeg > hung rudders etc. > > The disadvantges is that some people don't like metal boats. > They "can" rust but with modern coatings and being designed with > minimal areas that are prone to paint chipping, this is not as big a > problem assome would make you believe. All boats will have some > maintenace. These boats are also usually very dry and warm, due to > being insulated and deck fittings are welded on instead of passing > through the deck. > > Again your best bet is scanning the old posts. Good luck with your > search. > Rowland > | 10171|9903|2006-01-13 17:56:25|..|Re: Some questions for the professional Welders in the Group|Hi Ben, I am puzzled why you did not get my email,I thought at the time it was best to continue the discussion about the rotational moulded dinghy off group as it was not origani. I am now apprehensive of posting to the group for fear of being misunderstood and provoking another outburst by the self appointed moderators,who do not appear to have contributed to origami boat building, it appears that the number of people posting has dropped recently maybe for the same reason. I had some comments regarding the BS26 but withheld them for fear of provoking another flame war,I will discuss them off group with builders of Brent's BS26. I belong to a number of groups homebuilt aircraft,engines,flying CNC ,engineering,yacht design,the members of which often outline what they are planning to do or are working on and ask for comments from others, as they might have overlooked some important point which might affect safety and performance or that there might be a better way of designing and making a part. Most of the members have considerable knowledge and experience,in many fields outside of the subject of the group which is offered free to any one who might be working on a project. In most groups the members have the good manners not to attach others even if they do not agree with them,they can always use the delete key. It is great that we are all able to learn and discuss our projects with others who are often on the other side of the world,groups and the internet enable use to do what otherwise would be impossible. For some time I have been looking at the design of dingy as many are far from satisfactory,there have been some articles in the yachting mags as to improvements, that might be made to enable the dingy to be used as a life raft or lifeboat. But as you did not get any response maybe we should discuss this off group. Best wishes Geoff --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, ".." wrote: > > Hi Ben, ---------------------------------------------------------------- Hi Geoff, indeed , I did not receive your email . Looking at the clicks in : http://www.buildingyourboat.com/tiki-browse_gallery.php?galleryId=4 I really dought the Rotomould subject is HOT : only 92 clicks cause the 61 clicks on the first rotom pic is basicaly the same . Much more interest for the dinghies themselves....... and much much more for the - HAPPY 2006 - pic...... I received a lot of mails about dinghies , your post is the only one about Rotomould, but there is the sillent majority :-) I was trying to rally some attention for an active life-boat dinghy for a cheap price , the same principle that is used by http://www.tinker.co.uk/ on their inflatables. As you say so well , any decent welder should be able to make a mould or matrix made out of steel plate or cast aluminum . I saw an origami designed boat with many darts to give the longer flat surfaces some clincker imitation spray or lifting rails reinforcements , always usefull when wanting to build as light as possible . Hull , decks and even lockerspaces could be build in without any joints , all underdeck reinforcements being attachted before moulding , color added to product . I see the foam injected before taking the product out of the mould to give the actual strenght to thin skins , giving build in boyancy at the same time :-) The Rotomould system is mainly 4 steps : 1 polyethyleen powder goes in and the exact same weight will comme out of the matrix [ minimum material loss ] 2 heating of the rotating matrix [ 3 to 30 minutes or longer ] good moulders know the tricks to overheate the difficult to penetrate places or chines so materials will stick there faster , easyer and a bit thicker and reinforce . 3 cooling proces once the heat is turned of . now is the moment to inject the foam . 4 take the product out the mould :-) the "demoulant" or anti-adhesive applyed afther cleaning and before re-using the mould is important . I agree totaly when you say :> It is not just as simple as lighting a fire under the mould.> On the other hand it remains one of the simplest and best lowcost moulding methods I have experience with . Well designed and well build you can make a fine product. But we have a problem :-) No real interst... Lett us wait a bit... one never realy knows only time will tell. Thanks again for your post , I feel less lonely with my rotomould proposal :-) Old Ben ----------------------------------------------------------- > Message 9997 of 10003 From: ".." > Date: Sat Dec 31, 2005 11:12 pm > Subject:Some questions for the professional Welders in the Group > yachtsubaru > > Hi Ben, > I did send you a reply off list as I was not sure if this > subject was OT, but as you did not reply maybe you did not > get my email. > I have design products to be moulded by the rotational > moulding process for a number of years,the welding of the > mould is not the main problem any good welder should be > able to do the welding. > The important thing is the quality of the fabrication,as > you say all the marks and imperfections are reproduced in > the finished product. > The hull must be design to use the properties of the moulding > material which is not as stiff as other boat building > materials,also the PU foam will not bond to HDPE. --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.859 / Virus Database: 585 - Release Date: 14/02/2005 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 10172|9641|2006-01-13 17:56:53|..|Re: Mold question (Webbing)|Courtney, Sorry I am a bit late replying, The old pipe cots had a frame made from galvanised pipe the size of the bunk with a sheet of canvas slightly smaller than the inside of the frame,this canvas had eyelets round the edge, a light rope was passed through the eyelets and round the frame so tensioning the the canvas,like the old snow shoes. The gap between the frame and canvas allows air to circulate Geoff ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - >Pardon my obtuseness, but could you more fully describe what you mean by >using a lashing rope. >Thank you, >C.Thomas -------------------------------------------------------------------------- >.. wrote: >> Ted, >> you could tension the webbing in the same as the old pipe cots,with >> a lashing rope. >> Geoff > > Seer, > I thought about using woven webbing as a base for bunks as I have some > that came from the rigging of a hot air balloon. The problem that I > foresee is tensioning it so that it doesn't sag like a hammock. --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.859 / Virus Database: 585 - Release Date: 14/02/2005 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]| 10173|10137|2006-01-14 00:16:28|akenai|Re: Fuel cells and electric drive|Here is an interesting electric motor http://www.solomontechnologies.com/Solomon%20new/STI% 20system.html#Anchor-Syste-41095 --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "jnikadie" wrote: > > > Fuel cells, in their purest form, convert hydrogen and oxygen to > water, producing electricy in the process. > > However, as hydrogen is hard to distribute and store, the type of fuel > cell you're likely to find on a boat uses hydrogen from other fuel > sources and therefore there is more than pure water produced. > > Another factor is temperature ... they need to run quite warm (I > understand they generate their own heat, but I believe some need to be > warmed up to start off) ... there's probably some cooling to be done > (although less than an internal combustion engine!). > > Brent makes an interesting point ... worth looking into. > > > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Alex Christie wrote: > > > > I thought the fuel cell doesn't make any exhaust, isn't that right? So > > it should be able to be used inside because there is no combustion. I > > might be "off" on the technology there, of course. Also, do some > > batteries need venting and some do not? > > > > Alex > > > > > > On 11-Jan-06, at 1:23 PM, brentswain38 wrote: > > > > > When I saw the price of fuel cells quoted at $3800 I thought " Forget > > > that idea." Then I began to think that a fuel cell for that price > > > combined with the price of an electric motor Alex told me about, > plus > > > a > > > few batteries , and you are not that far from the price of a diesel > > > and > > > tranny. If the fuel cell is not powerful enough to run the engine > > > directly, you could run on a combination of fuel cell and battery and > > > let the fuel cell recharge the battery overnight. The cell could be > > > put > > > in the cockpit box to isolate it from the accomodation. It could also > > > be helped out in some degree by wind generators and solar panels. It > > > may be both economically and technically practical.Cheaters could > give > > > their boats a hell of a reputation for light air performance with the > > > silence of electric drive. > > > I saw a program on TV a couple of nights ago about the German s31 > > > sub , which, by using fuel cells instead of diesels for recharging > > > ,can > > > run submerged for weeks at a time , possibly making nuclear subs less > > > relevant.So the technology works.Silence and no hot exhuast is also > > > very attractive.Withthe cell in the cockpit, there would be no inside > > > exhuast. > > > Brent | 10174|10137|2006-01-14 01:12:48|Frank McNeill|Re: Fuel cells and electric drive|Hi all, It is interesting, but the company might have problems with a lot of prior art covering combination motor/generator systems. Don't some of the new hybrid automobiles do that by using their electric motors as generators and dynamic brakes when they are coasting? Forget about fuel cells though because they aren't going to happen in most places. anytime soon. If they do, they will probably run on ethanol, aka "grain alcohol" which is already blended with gasoline for some states (California etc.) but would be denatured to keep sailors from drinking it the way a lot of them did during WW2. Methane, aka natural gas would be as hard to store as hydrogen and would require a converter to separate the hydrogen from the carbon dioxide, so it wouldn't be much more environmentally friendly than gasoline. Methanol, aka wood alcohol could be made in quantity by the destructive distillation of low sulfur coal, but would require more conversion than methane. It is unlikely that methanol will be sold as fuel because of its toxicity— very dangerous stuff as a lot of old alcoholics discovered during prohibition days. There are alternatives for use in boats with more room than is available in automobiles. One might be Stirling cycle external combustion engines that can use just about any combustible material for fuel. There are also models that can be powered by using mirrors to focus sunlight on their "hot" sides. Another possibility that is becoming ever more likely is for the use of solid-state thermoelectric generators that can convert about five-percent of the heat that passes through them into electricity. One company has developed a model for mounting on the exhaust pipes of diesel trucks as an alternative to alternators or generators for keeping truck batteries charged. Prototypes of a new type of thermoelectric generator haven't gone into mass production, but have the promise for converting heat into electricity more efficiently than any combination of engines, gas turbines and generators is able to do— up to about 70-percent of the theoretical conversion efficiency limit defined by the theorem for Carnot cycle heat engines. My interest is in finding a company that makes little pop-pop steam engines for little tin boats that were very popular when I was a kid before WW2. There are a few companies that make them now, but I doubt very much that they would be interested in doing a joint venture with a company currently concentrating on the development of a mass-production system for new, super efficient, solid state thermoelectric generators that are going to make a lot of the current "giants of industry" very unhappy, if and when they can be cranked out like gumdrops. Are any members of the group entrepreneurial types who might like to become super-rich, or more possibly, super-broke? Go to: http://www.powerchips.gi/index.shtml to read about the "new kid on the thermoelectric block." Best wishes, Frank McNeill --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "akenai" wrote: > > Here is an interesting electric motor > > http://www.solomontechnologies.com/Solomon%20new/STI% > 20system.html#Anchor-Syste-41095 > | 10175|10137|2006-01-14 01:39:33|Alex Christie|steam-powered origami boat|Anyone contemplate steam power for their boats? We've got tons of wood on the beaches on the Canadian west coast, enough for a lifetime of cruising up and down the coast! A retired steam engineer did put a steam engine into a Bruce Roberts Spray hull once, actually. The huge displacement of that type of hull was likely helpful in that regard. Alex| 10176|10176|2006-01-14 11:43:51|mangumken|check out viviun go to carribean and then honduras look for vista b|quarter acre lots one mile from carribean i want to build steel motorsailer for down there maybe some of you folks would like to do the same. you cant find cheaper in carribean area . if anyone finds that interesting contact me at mangumken@...| 10177|10177|2006-01-14 12:42:44|tazmannusa|RE some questions for the professional welders|Hello Geoff Your last post did not get posted, I found it in my spam filter. Not sure why Anyway you mentioned you have comments on or for the BS26 builders and I would like to here them. IF you dont want to post them you can email me directly tazmann@... Thanks Tom| 10178|10178|2006-01-14 16:00:30|joe framer|Whispergen|Hello everyone, i am a long time lurker (years) who has just gotten the plans for a 31'. the talk about fuel cells is very pertinant to me. My current plan is to power my boat with the Etek electric motor. In looking for a power source I am considering an old technology 2 cylinder Petter or Lister diesel of 3-5 hp driving a dc alternator to charge the battery bank when neccessary.This system will cost $1500 to $2000 depending on how much scrounging I do. cheap enough that I will add a comnplete second system when I can afford it. I will be able to generate power when sailing from the Etek motor and supplant that with solar and wind power. I have found several articles about converting sailboats to electrics. But the reason I wrote today was to mention the whispergen system.This is a completely self contained unit which uses a 4 cylinder sterling engine burning diesel or kerosene, at max output it uses .75 liter an hour and produces about 65 amps at 12 volts. But what makes it reall nice for you northerners is that the waste heat is recycled to free hot water ( up to 5.5kw equivelent) for space heating. It looks to be the perfect solution, quiet, economical and automatic. The dc version is set up to automatically do the 3 stage charging that deep cycle batteries need. But, (always a but) a bit expensive and not yet widely available one site quote around 3000 pounds sterling. combined heat and power (microCHP) home power generation system from Whisper ... www.whispergen.com/ Karl in Carolina http://www.thunderstruck-ev.com/sailboatkit.htm Here's a kit http://www.columbia-yachts.com/paul/235_electric_propulsion.htm __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com| 10179|9903|2006-01-14 17:25:18|edward_stoneuk|Re: Some questions for the professional Welders in the Group|Geoff, I think the reason why people do not get your emails is because your sender name comes up as ... or something similar in the inbox. I remember that you sent me one some time ago and not recognising it I bounced it. You contacted me again and I wondered why I hadn't received it then I realised what had happened. There is so much vicious spam out there that if an email doesn't have a recognisable sender then folks are not going to open it. Regards, Ted| 10180|10137|2006-01-14 18:11:54|edward_stoneuk|Re: steam-powered origami boat|Hi Alex, The difficulty with a steam powered ship is where do you store the fuel. This is especially so using wood as fuel. There are a two chaps where I am building my boat who have just finished rebuilding a steam roller. They tow a trailer filled with water and coal when they go off for a drive. Regards, Ted| 10181|10181|2006-01-14 22:45:33|kendall|hard bounce?|was hard bouncing for some reason, wouldn't let me post, anyone know what causes a hard bounce? changed email address, seems to work, but I'd rather keep the list on hotmail. anyone else experience this? and what'd you do to take care of it? Ken.| 10182|10178|2006-01-15 00:06:41|Jon & Wanda(Tink)|Re: Whispergen|Here is a interesting Altinator web sight that might stir up some thoughts. http://www.zena.net/htdocs/Map.shtml#Top Jon --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, joe framer wrote: > > Hello everyone, i am a long time lurker (years) who > has just gotten the plans for a 31'. the talk about > fuel cells is very pertinant to me. My current plan is > to power my boat with the Etek electric motor. In > looking for a power source I am considering an old > technology 2 cylinder Petter or Lister diesel of 3-5 > hp driving a dc alternator to charge the battery bank > when neccessary.This system will cost $1500 to $2000 > depending on how much scrounging I do. cheap enough > that I will add a comnplete second system when I can > afford it. I will be able to generate power when > sailing from the Etek motor and supplant that with > solar and wind power. I have found several articles > about converting sailboats to electrics. > But the reason I wrote today was to mention the > whispergen system.This is a completely self contained > unit which uses a 4 cylinder sterling engine burning > diesel or kerosene, at max output it uses .75 liter an > hour and produces about 65 amps at 12 volts. But what > makes it reall nice for you northerners is that the > waste heat is recycled to free hot water ( up to 5.5kw > equivelent) for space heating. It looks to be the > perfect solution, quiet, economical and automatic. The > dc version is set up to automatically do the 3 stage > charging that deep cycle batteries need. But, (always > a but) a bit expensive and not yet widely available > one site quote around 3000 pounds sterling. > combined heat and power (microCHP) home power > generation system from Whisper ... > www.whispergen.com/ Karl in Carolina > http://www.thunderstruck-ev.com/sailboatkit.htm > Here's a kit > http://www.columbia-yachts.com/paul/235_electric_propulsion.htm > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > | 10183|10178|2006-01-15 00:13:58|Paul J. Thompson|Re: Whispergen|Hi, Stay away from WhisperGen. They sound great and if they worked reliably they would be great. I have in stalled two on one boat (sailing) and one on another (power) Both installations are really wonderful when they work but they have not proved to be reliable and have had a lot of down time. Used in houses, they work just fine and give very few problems but in boats, all I can say is that I would not put one on my own boat. Regards, Paul joe framer wrote: > Hello everyone, i am a long time lurker (years) who > has just gotten the plans for a 31'. the talk about > fuel cells is very pertinant to me. My current plan is > to power my boat with the Etek electric motor. In > looking for a power source I am considering an old > technology 2 cylinder Petter or Lister diesel of 3-5 > hp driving a dc alternator to charge the battery bank > when neccessary.This system will cost $1500 to $2000 > depending on how much scrounging I do. cheap enough > that I will add a comnplete second system when I can > afford it. I will be able to generate power when > sailing from the Etek motor and supplant that with > solar and wind power. I have found several articles > about converting sailboats to electrics. > But the reason I wrote today was to mention the > whispergen system.This is a completely self contained > unit which uses a 4 cylinder sterling engine burning > diesel or kerosene, at max output it uses .75 liter an > hour and produces about 65 amps at 12 volts. But what > makes it reall nice for you northerners is that the > waste heat is recycled to free hot water ( up to 5.5kw > equivelent) for space heating. It looks to be the > perfect solution, quiet, economical and automatic. The > dc version is set up to automatically do the 3 stage > charging that deep cycle batteries need. But, (always > a but) a bit expensive and not yet widely available > one site quote around 3000 pounds sterling. > combined heat and power (microCHP) home power > generation system from Whisper ... > www.whispergen.com/ Karl in Carolina > http://www.thunderstruck-ev.com/sailboatkit.htm > Here's a kit > http://www.columbia-yachts.com/paul/235_electric_propulsion.htm > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > | 10184|10137|2006-01-15 02:29:56|akenai|Re: Fuel cells and electric drive|I copied and pasted wrong the first time Ill try again http://www.solomontechnologies.com/ --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "akenai" wrote: > > Here is an interesting electric motor > > http://www.solomontechnologies.com/Solomon%20new/STI% > 20system.html#Anchor-Syste-41095 > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "jnikadie" wrote: > > > > > > Fuel cells, in their purest form, convert hydrogen and oxygen to > > water, producing electricy in the process. > > > > However, as hydrogen is hard to distribute and store, the type of > fuel > > cell you're likely to find on a boat uses hydrogen from other fuel > > sources and therefore there is more than pure water produced. > > > > Another factor is temperature ... they need to run quite warm (I > > understand they generate their own heat, but I believe some need > to be > > warmed up to start off) ... there's probably some cooling to be > done > > (although less than an internal combustion engine!). > > > > Brent makes an interesting point ... worth looking into. > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Alex Christie > wrote: > > > > > > I thought the fuel cell doesn't make any exhaust, isn't that > right? So > > > it should be able to be used inside because there is no > combustion. I > > > might be "off" on the technology there, of course. Also, do > some > > > batteries need venting and some do not? > > > > > > Alex > > > > > > > > > On 11-Jan-06, at 1:23 PM, brentswain38 wrote: > > > > > > > When I saw the price of fuel cells quoted at $3800 I thought " > Forget > > > > that idea." Then I began to think that a fuel cell for that > price > > > > combined with the price of an electric motor Alex told me > about, > > plus > > > > a > > > > few batteries , and you are not that far from the price of a > diesel > > > > and > > > > tranny. If the fuel cell is not powerful enough to run the > engine > > > > directly, you could run on a combination of fuel cell and > battery and > > > > let the fuel cell recharge the battery overnight. The cell > could be > > > > put > > > > in the cockpit box to isolate it from the accomodation. It > could also > > > > be helped out in some degree by wind generators and solar > panels. It > > > > may be both economically and technically practical.Cheaters > could > > give > > > > their boats a hell of a reputation for light air performance > with the > > > > silence of electric drive. > > > > I saw a program on TV a couple of nights ago about the German > s31 > > > > sub , which, by using fuel cells instead of diesels for > recharging > > > > ,can > > > > run submerged for weeks at a time , possibly making nuclear > subs less > > > > relevant.So the technology works.Silence and no hot exhuast > is also > > > > very attractive.Withthe cell in the cockpit, there would be > no inside > > > > exhuast. > > > > Brent > | 10185|10181|2006-01-15 08:24:22|legacy10548|Hard Bounce|Ken, Go To EDIT MEMBERSHIP. Verify your email and other info is correct there. Mine was bouncing a while back. Theree was an error in my email address. Good luck Ed --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "kendall" wrote: > > was hard bouncing for some reason, wouldn't let me post, anyone know > what causes a hard bounce? > changed email address, seems to work, but I'd rather keep the list on > hotmail. > anyone else experience this? and what'd you do to take care of it? > > Ken. > | 10186|10186|2006-01-15 10:18:29|Frank McNeill|"Second verse, same as first but might be worse"---|Took another look at the electric motor mentioned by akenai in post 10173 and discovered they company also has something they call an electric wheel that might be used to drive a rotating metal sail. Go to Google to find several sites with information about Anton Flettner's rotating metal sails based on the Magnus effect that allows pitchers to throw curve balls and duffers like me to slice golf balls off into unexplored territory. One of the claims made for the sails is that they can sail closer to the wind than conventional sails. They might also be better for guys who like to bend sheet metal! Best wishes, Frank McNeill| 10187|10181|2006-01-15 11:05:54|kendall|Re: Hard Bounce|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "legacy10548" wrote: > > Ken, > Go To EDIT MEMBERSHIP. Verify your email and other info is correct > there. Mine was bouncing a while back. Theree was an error in my > email address. Good luck > > Ed > > > seems to have straightened out, finally recieved an email from the groups, 4 days after! Apreciate it! Ken| 10188|10188|2006-01-15 13:51:16|Henri Naths|fuel cell|build your own fuel cell http://www.goodideacreative.com/fuel_cell.html [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]| 10189|10137|2006-01-15 15:58:03|..|Re: steam-powered origami boat|Hi Alex, You would need a condensing engine to recover the fresh water, you cannot use salt water, most steam launches had them. It would be best to use a monotube steam generator in place of a boiler much lighter and safer as used in steam cars. search for Doble steam cars. Abner Doble 1891-1961 Geoff ---------------------------------------------------------------- >Hi Alex, >The difficulty with a steam powered ship is where do you store the >fuel. This is especially so using wood as fuel. There are a two chaps >where I am building my boat who have just finished rebuilding a steam >.roller. They tow a trailer filled with water and coal when they go >off for a drive. >Regards, >Ted --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.859 / Virus Database: 585 - Release Date: 14/02/2005 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]| 10190|10190|2006-01-15 19:28:48|tom|Re: BS26|Hello Geoff Most the sailing I will be doing with the BS26 will be off the California coast. Im not to conserned about shoal draft and I like the simplicity of fixed keel and it will be moored on a trailer 99% of the time. The plans do not have any details for a CB only the twin keels My opinion on a swing or dager board keel on the 26, I wouldnt do it, the hull itself has 2 ft of draft and the skeg has 3 ft of draft. If you wanted to run in 2'-3' ft of water I think the hull would have to be changed allso, flater bottom and wider beam. If I was going to make a swing keel I would have the pivot bolts under the boat not in it, I had enough problems with pivot bolts leaking in the past on other boats. Youre idea of the dager board style keel could be a good option but you would still have to shorten skeg and rudder a foot and Im not sure what that would do to boat handling, mabee a short skeg with kickup rudder? . Admi has some profesionals working on it and maybee they will come up with a good keel rudder design that will work for you allso. Tom ----- Original Message ----- From: .. To: 'tazmannusa' Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2006 12:58 PM Subject: [origamiboats] BS26 Hi Tom, Thank for your reply, I have been following your progress building the BS26 with interest as this is the size of yacht I would like to build. Like Gerd I was concerned that only one BS26 had been built with a centreboard,that looked more like a motor sailer and was built for a special trip through the NW passage,there is no data on the sailing abilities that I am aware of one comment that was made the CB banged about in the CB case. When the CB is down there is considerable localized stress on the hull,the pivot has to be very well engineered to stop the CB from moving side ways and flapping about,also the method of raising the CB has to be fail safe,as should this fail the CB will swing down with no way of raising it, not easy even if the yacht is beached as it would be necessary to dig a hole under the keel to do the repairs. There have been lots of CB boats built in the past with different types of CB and many ways of raising them, many used a cable but these had problems when the cable corroded and failed, giving the above problem. The CB dose also need to be a good fit in the case or it will bang about which will also wear the pivot,also the centre of effort will move depending on weather to CB is half or fully down. As it is getting difficult and expensive to find moorings for yachts that have deep keels,a centreboard or lifting keel is the way to go, it will also give the ability to slide up shallow rivers and creeks without the risk of going aground. I also have a place where I would be able to keep a yacht but this is up a tidal river with only 2-0 to 3-0 feet of water depending on the wind and tide. Having looked at and studied a number CB and lifting Keel yachts I think that the lifting keel is the best design solution for the following reasons, 1 The keel can slide vertically or at an angle in the case keeping the centre of effort in the same place irrespective of the amount of the keel is down. 2 When the keel is fully down there can still be a substantial part of the keel or guides in the housing 3 Should the lifting system fail there can be a limiting stop and an emergency lift might be done with a halyard winch. 4 For maintenance the lifting keel could be lifted out anywhere there is a crane or lift like you have on your truck. 5 The lifting keel housing would run from the keel to the deck with no possible places to leak below the water line,this housing will also support the deck and transfer the mast loads down to the keel. The main drawback would be loss of room inside the hull but this will depend on the size and shape of the lifting keel. I have not been able to find any plans which incorporate all the above, what do you think Are there any details of the CB on the BS26 plans? Where are you and where are planning to sail? best wishes Geoff Cheshire England Your last post did not get posted, I found it in my spam filter. Not sure why Anyway you mentioned you have comments on or for the BS26 builders and I would like to here them. IF you dont want to post them you can email me directly tazmann@... Thanks Tom --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.859 / Virus Database: 585 - Release Date: 14/02/2005 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 10191|10031|2006-01-15 20:42:01|tom|Re: Admi's BS 26...|Hello Evan Thankyou for the info When you say you stretched it to 28' did you just expand the pattern around 10% or did you redraw the lines a little? Just curious Tom >> Hi Tom, Dove III was one of 3 boats that I built based on Brents 26' > stretched to 28' with about a 9' beam. The keel on Dove III was not > much longer than the regular fin keel, I think about 18" deep and > quite wide, about 22" but I could be wrong about the last 2 figures it > is a long time since I saw the boat. I still have the patterns that I > used for these 3 boats....Evan >> > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > | 10192|10165|2006-01-15 20:57:15|Jim Ragsdale|Re: Estimate of the number of origami hulls built|Wow! That is impressive. On Friday 13 January 2006 3:31 pm, brentswain38 wrote: > Probably roughly around 150 to my designs > Brent > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Jim Ragsdale" wrote: > > I'm curios, can anyone give an estimate of the number of origami hulls > > built? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links > > > | 10193|10165|2006-01-16 00:26:34|Jon & Wanda(Tink)|Re: Estimate of the number of origami hulls built|Add to that all the others that are not BS boats and it is unreal I hear. Jon --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Jim Ragsdale wrote: > > Wow! That is impressive. > > On Friday 13 January 2006 3:31 pm, brentswain38 wrote: > > Probably roughly around 150 to my designs > > Brent > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Jim Ragsdale" wrote: > > > I'm curios, can anyone give an estimate of the number of origami hulls > > > built? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > | 10194|10194|2006-01-16 11:15:03|Aaron|How to finnish out ?|Are there any good books on how to finish out the interior of a sailboat?| 10195|10195|2006-01-16 11:50:59|jonhackett44|Lee helm problems...|I'm experiencing a lee helm condition on my 36' bilge keeler. Has anyone had a similar problem? I have raked the mast aft, gone to a smaller jib(100%), tried heeling her more(35degrees average), and fattened up the mainsail draft. She'll hold her course on all points of sail until I pinch her to weather. Any suggestions? Thanks, Jon| 10196|10194|2006-01-16 14:15:57|Bruce Hallman|Re: How to finnish out ?|>n 1/16/06, Aaron wrote: > Are there any good books on how to finish out the interior of a > sailboat? > http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0070053073 The Fred Bingham book is the 'bible' on this topic, IMO.| 10197|10137|2006-01-16 14:36:32|Dick Pilz|Re: Fuel cells and electric drive|Actually, Toyota may have the prior art problems, since Solomon feels the Prius infringes on their 1990 patent (U.S. Pat. 5,067,932) with regard to the whole transmission/planetary gear/regenerative package and is currently suing them. They have also asked the U.S. International Trade Commission bar all further import of the Prius. http://www.solomontechnologies.com/Solomon%20new/SolomonITCComplaint.pdf (Honda uses a different transmission layout on their Insight and does not infringe.) Keep in mind this is a little guy suing a big guy. Fair hulls and fair sailing, Dick --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Frank McNeill" wrote: > > Hi all, > It is interesting, but the company might have problems with a lot > of prior art covering combination motor/generator systems. Don't > some of the new hybrid automobiles do that by using their > electric motors as generators and dynamic brakes when they > are coasting? (Non-hybrid stuff snipped) > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "akenai" > wrote: > > > > Here is an interesting electric motor > > > > http://www.solomontechnologies.com/Solomon%20new/STI% > > 20system.html#Anchor-Syste-41095 > > > | 10198|10137|2006-01-16 15:26:23|edward_stoneuk|Re: Fuel cells and electric drive|Brent, There was an article on ways of producing electricity in the January 2006 Practical Boat Owner. It compares: 1. Main engine and smart regulator. Cost (£200) Running cost £2/100Ah 2. Mains battery charger. 3. Solar power. Cost £2,074 for 98 Ah (Note need 3.15m2 of panels) 4. Wind Generator. Cost £850 + £300 Installation for 91Ah 5. Towed Generator. £1,600 for 100Ah 6. Marine Fuel Cell. (www.max-power.com) Cost £3,400 for 100Ah. Running cost £11.55 per 100Ah. It runs on methanol. 5 litres costs £11.56 is not readily available and lasts three days at 100 Ah per day. 7. Diesel genset 8. Petrol genset www.voller.com is another fuel cell site. Regards, Ted| 10199|10194|2006-01-16 15:48:14|NORMAN MOORE|Re: How to finnish out ?|I'd recommend "Practical Yacht Joinery" by Fred Bingham. It covers the same material as "Boat Joinery and Cabinetmaking" and more, but in greater detail. I think it may be out of print so use Amazon or Barnes and Noble to get a used copy. Don't buy them both like I regret doing. Half the book covers basic joinery, which IMO anyone tackling this should already know. There's another book "Yacht Joinery and Fitting" by Mike Saunders, recommended by a reader on Amazon.com, it's $125 new and about $8.00 used. Wonder what that says... What the heck, after doing the search to see what else was out there I ordered a used one, can't hurt. --- Aaron wrote: --------------------------------- Are there any good books on how to finish out the interior of a sailboat? To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com SPONSORED LINKS British columbia canada Vancouver island Yacht --------------------------------- YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. --------------------------------- Norm Moore 559-645-5314| 10200|10194|2006-01-16 17:40:19|Bruce Hallman|Re: How to finnish out ?|On 1/16/06, NORMAN MOORE wrote: > I'd recommend "Practical Yacht Joinery" by Fred > Bingham. It covers the same material as "Boat Joinery > and Cabinetmaking" and more, but in greater detail. You got my curiousity up now. It appears that the second is a 'revised' version of the first, issued ten years later. The practical advice on tools, techinques, and joint design is valuable. I especially like the 'sliding auxilary table' [SLAT] that fits on your table saw and serves as a low tech/high accuracy replacement for a compound miter saw. see page 82 http://hort.net/+135G http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/0070053073/ref=sib_rdr_next1_82/104-0359741-8427150?%5Fencoding=UTF8&keywords=slat&p=S02Q&twc=25&checkSum=QkB7H7rSULkJKUkDxwTtNZFDiRSAywQzRUPAWaCC9IA%3D#reader-page| 10201|10201|2006-01-16 20:04:47|waldo99inutah|line drawings of a BS 36|Hello all, Are there any line drawings of the BS 36 on the group web site? I am doing some comparing and would like to use a line drawing to help design out some possible interiors. Thanks, Carl| 10202|10195|2006-01-16 22:40:10|Michael Casling|Re: Lee helm problems...|I do not know if it is applicable to the 36 but often lee helm is the opposite of weather helm. Weather helm is generally to much sail up where the draft moves, aft coupled with the hull tippy. Lee helm can be too little sail up and or not enough wind for the amount of sail. A much larger headsail in the same conditions may be the cure. If there was plenty of wind and the boat was up to speed then it is a balance problem. Michael ----- Original Message ----- From: jonhackett44 To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, January 16, 2006 8:50 AM Subject: [origamiboats] Lee helm problems... I'm experiencing a lee helm condition on my 36' bilge keeler. Has anyone had a similar problem? I have raked the mast aft, gone to a smaller jib(100%), tried heeling her more(35degrees average), and fattened up the mainsail draft. She'll hold her course on all points of sail until I pinch her to weather. Any suggestions? Thanks, Jon To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS a.. Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web. b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 10203|10194|2006-01-16 23:58:41|mickeyolaf|Interiors|The dimensions you need are all in your house. Chair seats are 18" high. Tables are 30". Counters are 36". Heads are 15". Stoves are 36". Bunks should be 7' long to allow for feet stretched out. Deck Girls in the US are 32-24-36. In Canada due to the fresher air 40-24-36. Everybody is getting taller. 6'6" headroom should be the norm. I have 5 boys. Two are 6'5", the others not much shorter. I see Hunter Yachts are now building in higher headroom. Some of their boats have 7'. Nobody wants to stoop in a boat. You get off after doing the dishes and you look like a hunchback walking down the dock. I read somewhere that 28" is the minimum width for a single. That's too small for me. If I remember right it said the minimum two people can sleep beside each other is 44". You really gotta like her at that width. I would think for offshore that cloths can be rigged to prevent roll-a-bout in a wide berth. In port I would want all the berth width and length I could get. On my last sailboat everything was too low and too short and I hit my head way too many times. In fact it knocked most of the sense out of me because I am still spending money on boats. --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Hallman wrote: > > On 1/16/06, NORMAN MOORE wrote: > > I'd recommend "Practical Yacht Joinery" by Fred > > Bingham. It covers the same material as "Boat Joinery > > and Cabinetmaking" and more, but in greater detail. > > You got my curiousity up now. > > It appears that the second is a 'revised' version of the first, issued > ten years later. > > The practical advice on tools, techinques, and joint design is > valuable. I especially like the 'sliding auxilary table' [SLAT] that > fits on your table saw and serves as a low tech/high accuracy > replacement for a compound miter saw. > > see page 82 > > http://hort.net/+135G > > http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/0070053073/ref=sib_rdr_next1_82/104 -0359741 -8427150?%5Fencoding=UTF8&keywords=slat&p=S02Q&twc=25&checkSum=QkB7H7rSU LkJKUkDxwTtNZFDiRSAywQzRUPAWaCC9IA%3D#reader-page > | 10204|8384|2006-01-17 05:10:11|sae140|Re: seeking boat builder partner on patented project|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "woodcraftssuch" wrote: > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "winnobizi" > wrote: > > To prove it is an easy task. > > > > It is nothing more than a basin invertly place on water surface in > bath tank. > > > > You will find it is difficult to pull it out from water, and harder > to sink it! > > > > It is a child's play that everybody can try at home when bathing > like ARCHIMEDE discovery of his theory. > > > > Just cannot believe there is someone trying to reject it with > college knowledge, disappointing. > > > > I hope I am not talking to the best in the industry else I see no > future or breakthrough in ship building's industry. > > > > What I am seeking is a wiser guy who can distinguish between > knowledge and wisdom. > > > > May be I am going wrong place. > > > > cw > > Mustafa, > Give it up. > Sam > Just in case anyone has the slightest interest in what Mustafa Umut Sarac is currently up to - he's now on the magnetometer group, trying to extract info (to patent, of course) in order to locate the Hittite King Tombs in central Anatolia. Crazy - or a con-man ? But then, who cares ? Colin| 10205|8384|2006-01-17 12:50:17|Wesley Cox|Re: seeking boat builder partner on patented project|I always thought he was a college-age kid taking too many mind expanding drugs. sae140 wrote: >--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "woodcraftssuch" > wrote: > > >>--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "winnobizi" >>wrote: >> >> >>>To prove it is an easy task. >>> >>>It is nothing more than a basin invertly place on water surface >>> >>> >in > > >>bath tank. >> >> >>>You will find it is difficult to pull it out from water, and >>> >>> >harder > > >>to sink it! >> >> >>>It is a child's play that everybody can try at home when bathing >>> >>> >>like ARCHIMEDE discovery of his theory. >> >> >>>Just cannot believe there is someone trying to reject it with >>> >>> >>college knowledge, disappointing. >> >> >>>I hope I am not talking to the best in the industry else I see no >>> >>> >>future or breakthrough in ship building's industry. >> >> >>>What I am seeking is a wiser guy who can distinguish between >>> >>> >>knowledge and wisdom. >> >> >>>May be I am going wrong place. >>> >>>cw >>> >>> >> Mustafa, >> Give it up. >> Sam >> >> >> > > >Just in case anyone has the slightest interest in what Mustafa >Umut Sarac is currently up to - he's now on the magnetometer >group, trying to extract info (to patent, of course) in order >to locate the Hittite King Tombs in central Anatolia. >Crazy - or a con-man ? But then, who cares ? > >Colin > > > > > > > > >To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com >To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > | 10206|10162|2006-01-17 17:30:36|poussinpetit|Re: Why metal? Navigator's experience?|Thanks for your answers (in the group or directly to my email). They were all helpful. Yes indeed the Swain 37 I mentionned is the one currently for sale in Oahu. Aloha, Chris| 10207|10207|2006-01-17 18:35:18|Gerd|Rover 36 starting|Today my friend Karoly got all the steel for his boat dumped into his snow covered garden - tough, full of vigor and unspoiled by prior building projects as he is, he is going to start welding the sheets together outside in the middle of the winter ;-) Unfortunately I am going to freeze mine off as well, as I promised him to help him pull the hull together ... when so far I managed to stay nice and warm without ever setting foot on my own rust pile since october ;-) but "Plus on est de fous, plus on s'amuse..." Some details for the ROVER 36 are still still on http://www.justmueller.com/boats/_files/rover36/rover36.htm I will set up a proper section on my site for that project with construction pictures coming soon. Plus on est de fous, plus on s'amuse... Gerd the YAGO Project at http://www.justmueller.com/boats/| 10208|10208|2006-01-18 00:37:27|jericoera|Lead for sale 20 cents per pound!!!!!!|I was eating breakfast this a.m. and ran into an electrical engineer that strips lead out of heavy duty cable and wire and is selling the lead for 20 cents a pound. it comes in roughly four foot lengths. He has already zip cut the casing off it. I think he has about 500 pounds and is continually getting more--he stated he at times has a few thousand pounds of the stuff. I have his number and name at work. Anyone interested, he lives near Powell River on BC's Sunshine Coast and I will put you in touch with him. Considering he has already cleaned the material up a bit i don't think it sounds too bad. Just leave a reply on the board here and i will be in touch if you leave your email Cheers Carl M| 10209|10208|2006-01-19 10:35:34|Paul Liebenberg|Re: Lead for sale 20 cents per pound!!!!!!|Carl, I am very interested, and have cash in hand! Paul Liebenberg Courtenay (or close enough) 336-2271 Thanks Carl ----- Original Message ----- From: jericoera Date: Tuesday, January 17, 2006 9:35 pm Subject: [origamiboats] Lead for sale 20 cents per pound!!!!!! > I was eating breakfast this a.m. and ran into an electrical > engineer > that strips lead out of heavy duty cable and wire and is selling > the > lead for 20 cents a pound. it comes in roughly four foot lengths. > He > has already zip cut the casing off it. I think he has about 500 > pounds > and is continually getting more--he stated he at times has a few > thousand pounds of the stuff. > > I have his number and name at work. Anyone interested, he lives > near > Powell River on BC's Sunshine Coast and I will put you in touch > with > him. > > Considering he has already cleaned the material up a bit i don't > think > it sounds too bad. Just leave a reply on the board here and i will > be > in touch if you leave your email > > Cheers > > Carl M > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats- > unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > | 10210|10208|2006-01-19 11:53:29|kingsknight4life|Re: Lead for sale 20 cents per pound!!!!!!|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Paul Liebenberg wrote: > > Carl, I am very interested, and have cash in hand! > Paul Liebenberg > Courtenay (or close enough) > 336-2271 > Thanks Carl > > Paul Just a quick question about the primer you used on your old boat,(my new boat). Do you remember what brand it was? That grey primer you put on the welds and the bulwark cap is holding up pretty well, considering the amount of time the boat's been outside. sorry for h- jakcing the thread. Rowland| 10211|10211|2006-01-19 13:26:20|bert andjan|BS 26 questions...|Seems I've been reading from Tom and others that the twin keeled BS26 draws 3 feet? Is that correct... Also I wonder what the designed head room is, as I'm somewhat vertically challenged (PC language for "tall" ;o) The reason I'm looking at this is because it's designed weight falls within my pick ups towing capacity and I'm here in mid-America. For all the interest in the 26, it seems there are precious few (if any?} around???? (The one used to cruise north of Canada seems to be greatly modified from the original plans) DOES ANYONE KNOW OF HER SAILING ABILITIES??? Thanks for any input, I know some of these questions have come up before but somehow I've missed the answers. All the best, stay warm, Bert in Saginaw, Mi __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com| 10212|732|2006-01-19 17:54:53|Conall Stapleton|Lead|Hey, Check with local demolition contractors or better yet demo contractors that work with hospitals. I just bought 5300 lbs for $500.00. Clean stuff that came out of an MRI machine. It is in sheets aprox 6" x 10" and weighs 35 lbs per sheet. I don't figure I'll have to melt it into bricks, just stack it in my ballast boxes and secure it with epoxy and a good steel cap. He had a pile of the stuff that I'd guess to be a few dump truck loads. Conall [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]| 10213|10211|2006-01-19 19:25:19|tom|Re: BS 26 questions...|Hello Bert As far as the draft, measuring off the plan is about 3 ft for the twin keel version. Head room is kinda varable, it depends on where you put the floor but it is around 6 ft or a little more in the rear of cabin. Sailing Abilities I wish I could awnser that, I asked awhile back the same question and evedently no one has finished a 26 as a 26 yet. Aron is getting closer to being finished but it will be a while yet. I should be working on mine again in a couple weeks,weather is getting better but I will be only working on it about one day a week so it wont get finished to quick eather. Tom ----- Original Message ----- From: "bert andjan" To: Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2006 10:25 AM Subject: [origamiboats] BS 26 questions... > Seems I've been reading from Tom and others that the > twin keeled BS26 draws 3 feet? Is that correct... > > Also I wonder what the designed head room is, as I'm > somewhat vertically challenged (PC language for "tall" > ;o) > > The reason I'm looking at this is because it's > designed weight falls within my pick ups towing > capacity and I'm here in mid-America. > > For all the interest in the 26, it seems there are > precious few (if any?} around???? (The one used to > cruise north of Canada seems to be greatly modified > from the original plans) DOES ANYONE KNOW OF HER > SAILING ABILITIES??? Thanks for any input, I know > some of these questions have come up before but > somehow I've missed the answers. > > All the best, stay warm, Bert in Saginaw, Mi > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > | 10214|10208|2006-01-19 20:22:16|Paul Liebenberg|Re: Lead for sale 20 cents per pound!!!!!!|Rowland, cold zinc primer from a spray can, don't remember the brand name - sorry. Paul| 10215|7307|2006-01-19 21:53:45|SHANE ROTHWELL|Political Filth|>>--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Wesley Cox >> >> >wrote: > >>>I don't want to get much into US politics because it is currently >>> >>> >>at the >> >> >>>same time boring and scary (and off-topic). ======================= Although you are correct in your fears of the american Gov't, this is NOT the venue for their disgussion. You said "I don't want to get much into US politics". Good. DON"T __________________________________________________________ Find your next car at http://autos.yahoo.ca| 10216|7307|2006-01-19 22:36:11|Wesley Cox|Re: Political Filth|Orders received boss. And a good day to you, too. SHANE ROTHWELL wrote: >>>--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Wesley Cox >>> >>> > > > >>> >>> >>> >>> >>wrote: >> >> > > > >>>>I don't want to get much into US politics because >>>> >>>> >it is currently > > >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>at the >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>same time boring and scary (and off-topic). >>>> >>>> > >======================= >Although you are correct in your fears of the american >Gov't, this is NOT the venue for their disgussion. > >You said "I don't want to get much into US politics". >Good. DON"T > > > > > > >__________________________________________________________ >Find your next car at http://autos.yahoo.ca > > >To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com >To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > | 10217|10217|2006-01-20 01:24:48|Puck III|--- the New Origami BennyProa ---|Hi Guys , just to lett you all know it was a usefull week , working at a new Origami Design :-) The " Tilapia " with the simpelest rotating mastsystem see : http://www.buildingyourboat.com/tiki-browse_gallery.php?galleryId=6 or http://tinyurl.com/daojh for a direct Link to a report in French , may be of interest to some , cause it's a low-draft twinkeeler . You will find Links attached to all pics :-) Find here-under my announcement in another Group : Puck III" -- BennyProa -- > allready in first Hit's position : > > -- BennyProa -- > Newer than New :-) > > I wanted a special intro , hoping to > receive some interest and as an answer to > some asking why I choose that name . > > I am a longtime Benny Hill fan , so : > > http://www.toostupidtobepresident.com/shockwave/bennyhill.htm > > The " BennyProa " is comming real soon . > > Open for all suggestions and new ideas , > cause BoatDesign and BoatBuilding must be funn ! > > Old Ben | 10218|10190|2006-01-20 02:33:33|Puck III|Re: BS26|Hi Tom , hi Geoff ,just some thoughts to vaporise your concerns :-) --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "tom" wrote: > > Hello Geoff > Most the sailing I will be doing with the BS26 will be off the California coast. Im not to conserned about shoal draft and I like the simplicity of fixed keel and it will be moored on a trailer 99% of the time. > The plans do not have any details for a CB only the twin keels > My opinion on a swing or dager board keel on the 26, I wouldnt do it, the hull itself has 2 ft of draft and the skeg has 3 ft of draft. If you wanted to run in 2'-3' ft of water I think the hull would have to be changed allso, flater bottom and wider beam. If I was going to make a swing keel I would have the pivot bolts under the boat not in it, I had enough problems with pivot bolts leaking in the past on other boats. Youre idea of the dager board style keel could be a good option but you would still have to shorten skeg and rudder a foot and Im not sure what that would do to boat handling, mabee a short skeg with kickup rudder? . Admi has some profesionals working on it and maybee they will come up with a good keel rudder design that will work for you allso. > Tom All Old uncle Ben is doing is to make the BS 26' conform to EU regulations :-) Brent Swain's real classic design , here I talk about the waterlines , show a slippery hull for the displacement. Personaly I sail a boat with such classic immersed volume distribution , the Laurent Gilles designed WKD 29 twinkeeler. This type of hull gives a cruiser a smooth agreable ride , and under heel , the real longitudal boataxis aint shifting much latteraly as with more modern designs . I had my doughts about the system ,and to be frank , it is Alex's Video that showed me how fine thought out the BS building system realy is . You all know how flimsy a thin plywood sheet can be , put it under stress and there come the strenght . It is as simple as that :-) Sorry to compare the thin steel to thin ply , do not forget I never builded or designed an OrigamiBoat, before making the prelims for the " BennyProa " but it was the easyest comparaison for me , please correct me if I am wrong . I sure hope to be assigned to play the foreman when they will build that boat , cause that's the best way to put the little tricks I learned from Alex's Video into practice . > ----- Original Message ----- > From: .. > To: 'tazmannusa' > Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2006 12:58 PM > Subject: [origamiboats] BS26 > > > Hi Tom, > Thank for your reply, > I have been following your progress building the BS26 with interest > as this is the size of yacht I would like to build. > Like Gerd I was concerned that only one BS26 had been built with a > centreboard,that looked more like a motor sailer and was built for > a special trip through the NW passage,there is no data on the > sailing abilities that I am aware of one comment that was made > the CB banged about in the CB case. > When the CB is down there is considerable localized stress on the > hull,the pivot has to be very well engineered to stop the CB from moving > side ways and flapping about,also the method of raising the CB has to > be fail safe,as should this fail the CB will swing down > with no way of raising it, not easy even if the yacht is beached as it > would be necessary to dig a hole under the keel to do the repairs. > There have been lots of CB boats built in the past with different > types of CB and many ways of raising them, many used a cable but these > had problems when the cable corroded and failed, giving the above > problem. > The CB dose also need to be a good fit in the case or it will bang > about which will also wear the pivot,also the centre of effort will > move depending on weather to CB is half or fully down. > As it is getting difficult and expensive to find moorings for yachts > that have deep keels,a centreboard or lifting keel is the way to go, > it will also give the ability to slide up shallow rivers and creeks > without the risk of going aground. > I also have a place where I would be able to keep a yacht but this is > up a tidal river with only 2-0 to 3-0 feet of water depending on the > wind and tide. > Having looked at and studied a number CB and lifting Keel yachts > I think that the lifting keel is the best design solution > for the following reasons, > 1 The keel can slide vertically or at an angle in the case keeping the > centre of effort in the same place irrespective of the amount of the > keel is down. > 2 When the keel is fully down there can still be a substantial part of > the keel or guides in the housing > 3 Should the lifting system fail there can be a limiting stop and an > emergency lift might be done with a halyard winch. > 4 For maintenance the lifting keel could be lifted out anywhere there > is a crane or lift like you have on your truck. > 5 The lifting keel housing would run from the keel to the deck with no > possible places to leak below the water line,this housing will also > support the deck and transfer the mast loads down to the keel. > > The main drawback would be loss of room inside the hull but this will > depend on the size and shape of the lifting keel. > I have not been able to find any plans which incorporate all the above, > what do you think > Are there any details of the CB on the BS26 plans? > Where are you and where are planning to sail? > best wishes > Geoff > Cheshire > England Geoff , if you have a real interest , it could be worth considering to wait a bit , see and test for yourself , is what I would recommend . Sailing the boat you think building for a week , in a nice vacation environment seems a worthy investment in my eyes . UK to Banjul Gambia flights are cheap and regular . Bring a partner or a friend for a fine holiday, is that a bad idea ?? Please do not be concerned like Gerd . The BS 26' is very well designed . As usual , I will invite the nautical press and if they like what they test , you will find it in the magazines. Just tell me what you think . Old Ben | 10219|10211|2006-01-20 03:05:40|Puck III|Re: BS 26 questions...|Hi Bert , good news for the vertically challenged :-) --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, bert andjan wrote: > > Seems I've been reading from Tom and others that the > twin keeled BS26 draws 3 feet? Is that correct... That is correct , on the other hand we are working to reduce the draft to the maximum ,but well within EU new regulations , 60 to 65 centimeters is the goal. Tilapia seems a fine example , see : http://www.buildingyourboat.com/tiki-browse_gallery.php?galleryId=6 > > Also I wonder what the designed head room is, as I'm > somewhat vertically challenged (PC language for "tall" > ;o) How tall are you exactly ? Bert and Jan ? Some Dutch or Flemish ancesters ? Room enough to lett you stand where one must stand , just wanting to know how much room you need above when seated :-) > > The reason I'm looking at this is because it's > designed weight falls within my pick ups towing > capacity and I'm here in mid-America. A boat wish you can easely transport will enlarge your cruising areas , and be the most economical cause no mooringcosts. > > For all the interest in the 26, it seems there are > precious few (if any?} around???? (The one used to > cruise north of Canada seems to be greatly modified > from the original plans) DOES ANYONE KNOW OF HER > SAILING ABILITIES??? Thanks for any input, I know > some of these questions have come up before but > somehow I've missed the answers. > > All the best, stay warm, Bert in Saginaw, Mi I never sailed one , but I have the plans to work with , I like what I see and some know me to make a boat move fast. http://cruisenews.net/images/Puck/ just to see an old Gaffer beat a more modern boat 25% longer :-) regards from Ghent Old Ben| 10220|10207|2006-01-20 04:43:47|Puck III|Re: Rover 36 starting|Congratulations Gerd . A new 36 Origami motorboat . I sure will follow that build with much attention :-) Indeed , plus on est de fous , plus on s'amuse. http://www.toostupidtobepresident.com/shockwave/bennyhill.htm Hoping you become a BennyProa Fan :-) Sure no concerns on my behalf . Old Ben --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Gerd" wrote: > > Today my friend Karoly got all the steel for his boat dumped into > his snow covered garden - tough, full of vigor and unspoiled by > prior building projects as he is, he is going to start welding the > sheets together outside in the middle of the winter ;-) > > Unfortunately I am going to freeze mine off as well, as I promised > him to help him pull the hull together ... when so far I managed to > stay nice and warm without ever setting foot on my own rust pile > since october ;-) but "Plus on est de fous, plus on s'amuse..." > > Some details for the ROVER 36 are still still on > http://www.justmueller.com/boats/_files/rover36/rover36.htm > > I will set up a proper section on my site for that project with > construction pictures coming soon. > > Plus on est de fous, plus on s'amuse... > > Gerd > the YAGO Project at http://www.justmueller.com/boats/ > | 10221|10207|2006-01-20 07:08:43|Gerd|Re: Rover 36 starting|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III" wrote: > Hoping you become a BennyProa Fan :-) Old Ben - are there already any pics or specs of that proa project? Or did I miss that? Sounds very interesting ;-) Gerd| 10222|10222|2006-01-20 07:19:53|Puck III|the Loo onboard .|Hi All , a good read for those interested . Woman seems to think the Loo is very important on boats . Some carefull investigations tell us some refuse to consider doing it standing up ! http://www.buildingyourboat.com/tiki-browse_gallery.php?galleryId=6 Plus on est de fous , plus on s'amuse . So 3 questions remain : - is the Loo important on board . - where was the Casablanca pic taken ? - is Chris gone eat his shoe ? Enjoy.... Old Ben --- In proa_file@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III" wrote: > > --- In proa_file@yahoogroups.com, "Chris Ostlind" wrote: > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: petermirow > > Nice design, Chris. > > The balanced lug was the clients´ preference. What would be yours? > ------------- > > Sorry this took me awhile to answer, Peter. > > Today, I had an article published at Duckworks Boatbuilder's > Magazine regarding the A64 tacking outrigger design. Part of the > piece showed the larger rig I had in mind when I first pencilled the > boat for the client. > > http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/06/designs/a64/index.htm > > I encouraged the readers to develop their own rigs for the boat as > I feel the platform is very flexible for different types of sail > configurations. What would you do with the boat if you built one, > Peter? > > > > Chris > -------------------------- > Hi Chris , fine rendering and a long well argumented article ! > I think you are a priviledged man , writing your own reports : > > A64 - Tacking Outrigger > Design by Chris Ostlind- Salt Lake City, Utah - USA > The skinny little girl grows up > http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/06/designs/a64/index.htm > > First I see Utah is starting to get serious with polymamists : > http://writ.news.findlaw.com/hamilton/20040212.html > http://www.ruralwomyn.net/polygamy.html > About time I thought and I believe also separate bedrooms for > all are a must , even on little tiny campingcruisers :-) > foil assisted or not see : > http://www.ahoy-boats.info/CATRI24-photos.htm > cheaper with separate bedrooms : > http://www.virusboats.com/virus.php?langue=ang > http://www.ahoy-boats.info/ > if you want me to look up the separate > bedrooms pics for you , just ask . > > http://tinyurl.com/cvv3u is a Link to Madame Soleil, > or Sunny Lady in France , famous for predictions :-) > > In harryproa I find always the same for now : > Your membership is awaiting approval by the group owner . > But I see : > --- In harryproa@y..., "Chris Ostlind"wrote: > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: David Howie > > How do you reef a sail with a pocket luff? > > What happens to the unused pocket? Is that clear? > -------------- > > Hey David, > > I've used luff pocket sails on my boats before. I've never had a > sail that was over 120 sq. ft. for the process, but reefing is rather > simple. A zipper is installed on the luff sleeve. As the sail is > dropped down the mast, you simply unzip the luff sleeve as you go and > roll or fold the sail around/over the boom as you would any other > sail. > > I don't know how big of a sail you intend for this potential, but I > know it works for any size up to the 120 with which I have experience. > > > > You will have to approach the rigging methods slightly differently > as the sail is not simply sleeved on the mast with a webbing strap at > the mast tip to hold it in place. This is a hoisted sail. > > > > Chris Ostlind > ------------------ > So I presume you have the priviledge of looking and judging :-) > Is the harryproa group worth any further attenion or can > we consider someone is just writing his own reports ,not to > be taken serious and therefore better just refered to or hidden ?? > > My good friend Admi suggest you have a look at Admi's Album in > http://ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/proa_file4/photos > first --BennyProa-- followed by A21 , A64 followed by Admi's, > just have a look at Happy in Casablanca :-) > > Chris , you must know where Casablanca is ??? > > Mia and Admi have decided as a special favor to you to post > a pic taken at this years 2006 Ghent Boatshow on the stand > of the Harryproa representatives in Belgium in the same album. > > Are you gone eat your shoe then ??? > > Haaaah , woman can be difficult these days , but independant > they sure are ( be it in Utah or elswhere :-) > I think somebody has to bring the Loo on Topic soon !!! > > Old Ben > ----------------- > --- In proa_file@yahoogroups.com, "a_admi" wrote: > > Hi Chris , just some thoughts , > > good to learn your wife is your partner , > > that sure helps a man a lot , more than many really admit . > > -------------------------------------------------------------- > > --- In proa_file@yahoogroups.com, "Chris Ostlind" wrote: > > > Hi Mia, > > > My wife is my partner in the design business and nothing goes out > > > the door without her fine sense of intuitive balance in the mix. > > > Please contribute more often. > > > Oh, just one other thing. Are you really Old Ben, the wayward > > > Belgian, and you > > > are just writing these postings in the voice of a female? > > > Chris > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > Chris do not tell me you are serious with your assumptions :-) > > This is not the first time we are confronted with similar > > assumptions , the other person suggesting something similar > > was more carefull in his phrasing :-) > > see his exact words under this . > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > > Could that be really you???! What a lucky man he is, Old Ben, > > > to live in a country where gentle graceful boat-building women > > > abound !! ;-) > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > Are you that easyly influenced ?? > > Belgium is soooo small , most sailing girls and woman > > know each other extreemly well :-) > > Trust me , Mia is a good writer , be it in French :-) > > > > Old Ben is a male chauvenist :-) > > He likes younger woman , that is no crime . > > He is working like hell on that " BennyProa " project . > > Could be he does this just to show > > how good he performs really :-) > > > > One thing is certain ! > > He usualy checks his facts twice before > > claiming or suggesting anything :-) > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > --- In proa_file@yahoogroups.com, "a_admi" wrote: > > Sun Jan 15 , 2006 . 2:50 am > > > I posted some photos in proa_file4 in a Photoalbum > > > called ' Admi's ' so you can have an idea what I look for. > > > I would welcome all info , opinions , directions and links > > > > Admi | 10223|10222|2006-01-20 08:19:36|edward_stoneuk|Re: the Loo onboard .|Hi Ben, There was an article sometime ago in a UK boat mag by ,from memory, the Alain POIRAUD French designer of the Spade anchor. He discussed design ideas he had used on his own boat, one of which was a loo seat he had incorporated on the bowsprit for al fresco evacuations. The bowsprit was a wide one that one could stand on. One could lift the wooden grating and underneath was a loo seat. Another idea was an expanded metal screen that on could fix in the front hatch opening. His lady did not like the idea of sleeping in the front berth under an open hatch when moored. Regards, Ted| 10224|10207|2006-01-20 08:46:37|Puck III|Re: Rover 36 starting|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Gerd" wrote: > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III" wrote: > > > Hoping you become a BennyProa Fan :-) > Old Ben - are there already any pics or specs of that proa project? Or > did I miss that? Sounds very interesting ;-) > > Gerd > Sure Gerd , the prelim designs are ready :-) Brilliant , revolutionary , never done yet .... newer than new....... This will shake the boating community on its fundations :-) You sure missed some things . Did you know we have a famous actor in our members ? He played a major part in Trading Places see : http://www.timeout.com/film/79683.html for now he is working on a remake of : from Dusk to Dawn http://archives.obs-us.com/obs/english/films/mx/dusk/top.htm his mail ended up by accident in my mailbox , so we gett to know each other better . See you later , Old Alligator , I am off to those revolutionary brilliant designs :-) Old Ben Da Old Crocodile| 10225|10222|2006-01-20 09:24:51|Puck III|Re: the Loo onboard .|Hi Ted , could you post us a pic ? What you describe reminds me of Michael Paillin crossing the Arabian Sea from the Gulf to India on a Dow , the Loo was well ventilated , totaly out of the boat on the afthside . You may have seen the series : around the world under 80 days . I like that special Moderator's Seat in : http://www.buildingyourboat.com/tiki-browse_gallery.php?galleryId=6 Comfy Netting , hoping you did not miss that seat . Our beloved moderator could use one of those :-) Just wondering if he will install the wheel ?? Old Ben --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "edward_stoneuk" wrote: > > Hi Ben, > > There was an article sometime ago in a UK boat mag by ,from memory, > the Alain POIRAUD French designer of the Spade anchor. He discussed > design ideas he had used on his own boat, one of which was a loo seat > he had incorporated on the bowsprit for al fresco evacuations. The > bowsprit was a wide one that one could stand on. One could lift the > wooden grating and underneath was a loo seat. Another idea was an > expanded metal screen that on could fix in the front hatch opening. > His lady did not like the idea of sleeping in the front berth under an > open hatch when moored. > > Regards, > Ted > | 10226|10226|2006-01-20 09:50:33|thomasina-kirby814@hatethisstuff.com|Looking for your perfect match?|Met my fiance here! hehe. Thought I should share it with any other guys who are worried about ending up alone like I was. Check it out http://www.hookupatthisplace.info/elcz| 10227|10208|2006-01-20 13:06:29|jericoera|Re: Lead for sale 20 cents per pound!!!!!!|CAll A & K electric, Ed Audet (604)483-2631. He resides in Powell River , a short hop on the ferry from Comox BC Thanks, Carl M --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Paul Liebenberg wrote: > > Carl, I am very interested, and have cash in hand! > Paul Liebenberg > Courtenay (or close enough) > 336-2271 > Thanks Carl > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: jericoera > Date: Tuesday, January 17, 2006 9:35 pm > Subject: [origamiboats] Lead for sale 20 cents per pound!!!!!! > > > I was eating breakfast this a.m. and ran into an electrical > > engineer > > that strips lead out of heavy duty cable and wire and is selling > > the > > lead for 20 cents a pound. it comes in roughly four foot lengths. > > He > > has already zip cut the casing off it. I think he has about 500 > > pounds > > and is continually getting more--he stated he at times has a few > > thousand pounds of the stuff. > > > > I have his number and name at work. Anyone interested, he lives > > near > > Powell River on BC's Sunshine Coast and I will put you in touch > > with > > him. > > > > Considering he has already cleaned the material up a bit i don't > > think > > it sounds too bad. Just leave a reply on the board here and i will > > be > > in touch if you leave your email > > > > Cheers > > > > Carl M > > > > > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats- > > unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > | 10228|10207|2006-01-20 13:12:26|Gerd|Re: Rover 36 starting|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III" wrote: > Sure Gerd , the prelim designs are ready :-) > Brilliant , revolutionary , never done yet .... > newer than new....... > This will shake the boating community on its fundations :-) > You sure missed some things . so where are they? ;-) might the name "Bennyproa" in any way suggest a philosophy somehow related to the works of a certain "Harry" ? ;-)| 10230|10230|2006-01-20 13:25:11|pisforpaulie|unstayed masts|hello. looking for knowledge of unstayed masts - gazelle junk rigs and other junk rigs also cat-ketch rigs. can these rigs withstand a rollover? how do you heave-to with them? colvin has a headsail. others do not. any opinions / experience in these matters will be appreciated. thanks.| 10232|10230|2006-01-20 15:10:39|ymt@tantonyachts.com|Re: unstayed masts|Hello. Suggest to check Http://www.tantonyachts.com click on : "Introduction to free standing rig. Also, the Bulletin Board. Rgds, Y-M T -----Original Mess From: pisforpaulie To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, 20 Jan 2006 18:24:36 -0000 Subject: [origamiboats] unstayed masts hello. looking for knowledge of unstayed masts - gazelle junk rigs and other junk rigs also cat-ketch rigs. can these rigs withstand a rollover? how do you heave-to with them? colvin has a headsail. others do not. any opinions / experience in these matters will be appreciated. thanks. To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]| 10233|10207|2006-01-20 15:15:28|Puck III|Re: Rover 36 starting|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Gerd" wrote: > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III" wrote: > > > Sure Gerd , the prelim designs are ready :-) > > Brilliant , revolutionary , never done yet .... > > newer than new....... > > This will shake the boating community on its fundations :-) > > You sure missed some things . > > so where are they? ;-) might the name "Bennyproa" in any way suggest a > philosophy somehow related to the works of a certain "Harry" ? ;-) > Gerd , I am a long time Benny Hill Fan : do a Google search and you will be linked to some sites where Benny is Number One :-) http://www.tomadivx.com/html/secciones.php?sec=descargas&ap=variados who the hell is Harry ??? are you worried allready ??? or concerned ? :-) DONT !!!!| 10234|10207|2006-01-20 15:46:04|Gerd|Re: Rover 36 starting|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III" wrote: > who the hell is Harry ??? http://www.harryproa.com/| 10235|10230|2006-01-20 16:17:38|Denis Buggy|Re: unstayed masts|hello yourself with the original address . if you enter aero rig in google you will undertake a journey which does not have a certian destination as reviews are mixed and owners do not agree on the value of the aero rig system . there are a few articles on boat design net by people who removed them from their boat see sv barbra ann . who found to their astonishment it was 4000lbs heavy when removed and the reason for removal was the violent movement of the whole rig in heavy weather and this resulted in snatch blocks and other equip being ripped from the deck as they tried to control slamming and noise as it occilated alarmingly . it is very expensive and we are told it is short handed sailing at its simplest. denis ----- Original Message ----- From: pisforpaulie To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, January 20, 2006 6:24 PM Subject: [origamiboats] unstayed masts hello. looking for knowledge of unstayed masts - gazelle junk rigs and other junk rigs also cat-ketch rigs. can these rigs withstand a rollover? how do you heave-to with them? colvin has a headsail. others do not. any opinions / experience in these matters will be appreciated. thanks. To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com SPONSORED LINKS British columbia canada Vancouver island Yacht ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS a.. Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web. b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 10236|10222|2006-01-20 17:13:57|Puck III|Re: the Loo onboard .in Casablanca :-)|The Casablanca mystery finally solved :-) just a repost : Lucky you , you denied a visit to Casablanca :-) you could already be under suspicion . Please have a look at the map and find out where the Happy in Casablanca :-) pic was taken . http://www.guije.com/pueblo/municipios/habana/casablanca/index.htm http://www.met.inf.cu/asp/genesis.asp?TB0=PLANTILLAS&TB1=RADARES Really funny : an international (in)famous base is missing on that Map :-) Seeee : the net is full off surprises and pittfalls , one can't take everything published online for granted . You and I know what is there !!! Sometimes it is smarter to abstain from certain comments :-) I like to be the Pierrot , letting those crasy ideas come out of my pointed hat , boatdesign and boatbuilding must remain funn , I realy hope we can agree on that. Old Ben. --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III" wrote: > > Hi All , a good read for those interested . > Woman seems to think the Loo is very important on boats . > Some carefull investigations tell us some refuse to > consider doing it standing up ! > http://www.buildingyourboat.com/tiki-browse_gallery.php?galleryId=6 > Plus on est de fous , plus on s'amuse . > So 3 questions remain : > - is the Loo important on board . > - where was the Casablanca pic taken ? > - is X gone eat his shoe ? > > Enjoy.... > Old Ben Now you all know why I was interested to learn more about sailing to Casablanca :-) A good smile is the best way to fight all those worries , I remain a Benny Hill fan , this link has no personal or political intend or whatever :-) http://www.toostupidtobepresident.com/shockwave/bennyhill.htm | 10237|10237|2006-01-20 21:26:36|bert andjan|Re: BS 26 questions...|Thanks as usual old Ben and Tom, Well, Ben, I'm 6'4.5"tall, shrinking 1 cm per year...as I age, so if I wait long enough .... ;-) And I need 40.5" of room to sit without my balding head getting banged. And I don't need standing head room in a 26, but it'd be nice to see how close I can get if I increase the crown for headroom and lower the floor a bit for foot room, if possible. I'm not Dutch, rather: Austrian and Deutsch, yah. And I'm real interested in the BS 26, so I'm cheering for you guys who are already building. And as far as bashing the government, which deserves some bashing now and than cuz its made up of imperfect humans like us, but I'm reminded of the addage: "Any old jack ass can kick over a yacht, but it takes a craftsman to build one!" Keep up the good work, Bert in Saginaw, Mi __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com| 10238|10230|2006-01-20 22:16:32|khooper_fboats|Re: unstayed masts|Now, just because the Carbospars mast was incredibly expensive and poorly made does not mean that unstayed rigs aren't worth considering. The concept is sound and there are many Freedom yachts and many of Yves Tanton's boats sailing happily around with unstayed rigs right now. I posted a few messages a couple weeks ago about Rob Denney's (harryproa.com) experiments with an unstayed carbon rig designed for home construction, it's quite fascinating, check the archives or just write to Rob--he's quite accessible and will talk to anybody. --Ken| 10239|10239|2006-01-21 05:44:48|thomasina-kirby814@hatethisstuff.com|Looking for love?Here's my tip for ya...|Just thought I should pass on my knowledge to all you guys (and gals) on here. I know just like heaps of other men I am pretty shy when it comes to going up to someone. I've tried a few different places (clubs, bars, etc) but never seem to have too much luck. Anyway, a few weeks ago I joined up to http://www.livechatrooms.info/pwjg and I have to say I am already getting excited. I was beginning to think I'd end up being alone for ever, but already been talking to a few interested ladies on there. Anyway, if you're like me it comes highly recommended!| 10240|10230|2006-01-21 07:06:24|sae140|Re: unstayed masts|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "pisforpaulie" wrote: > > hello. looking for knowledge of unstayed masts - gazelle junk rigs and > other junk rigs also cat-ketch rigs. can these rigs withstand a > rollover? how do you heave-to with them? colvin has a headsail. > others do not. any opinions / experience in these matters will be > appreciated. thanks. > Opinion re: unstayed masts/ junk rig is divided on most boating forums. Suggest you visit: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/junkrig Plenty of Gazelle owners there. Colvin only fitted a headsail because he wasn't sure at the design stage how the rig would perform. It was found not to be necessary and is only used as a light weather sail now. Many Gazelles have no foresail. Holding the boat stationary in the water is not easy - junks always want to sail. Best to try balancing a slight amount of sail drive with the drift. Reported to be a lot easier with a two-stick rig. Historically, the Chinese used to trail a basket sea-anchor. Having some weight aloft decreases the tendency to roll - as long as the weight isn't overdone. Check out yachts at an exposed mooring and observe which rigs display the worst pendulum effect. Colin| 10241|10230|2006-01-21 07:48:02|Puck III|Re: unstayed masts|Hi Paulie , hi All , for those interested to see some revamped waterlines have a look at the openboat Olabe , site in English also . The designer studied 4 years in Southhampton and sailed the open boat from the UK to Spain . How a traditional Bask fishing boat can be turned into a modern canoe type hull with some real speed potential :-) http://www.olabe.net/ most interesting rig ! the wyliecat shows an interesting wishboom system on a turning mast : http://www.wyliecat.com/yachts/models/wyliecat_17.html you will find the Tilapia in : http://www.buildingyourboat.com/tiki-browse_gallery.php?galleryId=6 a direct link with the pic will bring you to the testreport. a well designed rig will withstand the use it is designed for, I usualy overdoo it , greater margin , more security :-) Old Ben --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "sae140" wrote: > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "pisforpaulie" > wrote: > > > > hello. looking for knowledge of unstayed masts - gazelle junk rigs > and > > other junk rigs also cat-ketch rigs. can these rigs withstand a > > rollover? how do you heave-to with them? colvin has a headsail. > > others do not. any opinions / experience in these matters will be > > appreciated. thanks. > > > > Opinion re: unstayed masts/ junk rig is divided on most > boating forums. > Suggest you visit: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/junkrig > Plenty of Gazelle owners there. > > Check out yachts at an exposed > mooring and observe which rigs display the worst pendulum effect. > > Colin > | 10242|10230|2006-01-21 10:47:37|jericoera|Re: unstayed masts|Junk rig are a tricky subject. In the U.K. they are really catching on especially for older retired crusiers as they require no sail stowage giving you more room below and you can tack and gybe effortlessly thopugh they normally don't point so well. Paul Fay , a designer of metal boats in the UK has his personal twin keeler rigged in junk fashion and I believe he says he gets about 50 degrees to the wind which while not great is acceptable to him for ocean cruising. There will always be trade offs for sure. The biggest factor I see for a Junk rig working is the actual hull shape. I am doubtful of it working equally well on all hulls. A junk hull is significantly different than the modern sloop. Carl McIntosh --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "sae140" wrote: > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "pisforpaulie" > wrote: > > > > hello. looking for knowledge of unstayed masts - gazelle junk rigs > and > > other junk rigs also cat-ketch rigs. can these rigs withstand a > > rollover? how do you heave-to with them? colvin has a headsail. > > others do not. any opinions / experience in these matters will be > > appreciated. thanks. > > > > Opinion re: unstayed masts/ junk rig is divided on most > boating forums. > Suggest you visit: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/junkrig > Plenty of Gazelle owners there. > > Colvin only fitted a headsail because he wasn't sure at the > design stage how the rig would perform. It was found not to > be necessary and is only used as a light weather sail now. > Many Gazelles have no foresail. > > Holding the boat stationary in the water is not easy - junks > always want to sail. Best to try balancing a slight amount > of sail drive with the drift. Reported to be a lot easier > with a two-stick rig. Historically, the Chinese used to trail > a basket sea-anchor. > > Having some weight aloft decreases the tendency to roll - as > long as the weight isn't overdone. Check out yachts at an exposed > mooring and observe which rigs display the worst pendulum effect. > > Colin > | 10243|10237|2006-01-21 11:43:53|tom|Re: BS 26 questions...|Hello again Bert At first I was going to build the cabin structure as designed but I changed my mind, what Im going to do is narrow up the side decks to 14" instead of 18" and have the cabin sides angled in about 40-45 degrees , the cabin top will be streight from front to back ie no raised rear section, and Im shooting for 6'-6" headroom in the aft section. several reasons, for trailering it will be a lot easyer to drop mast to the rear to sit on stearn rail. Keep dighy on cabin top when cruising. 8" wider cabin at the bottom of sides will make the interior volume seem a lot bigger. The cockpit is going to be a lot bigger allso than what is on the plan, after going over it with a friend of mine who happens to be a 30 year + sheet metal man, the cockpit,seats, and seat backs are going to be made out of one peice, very doable with a little extra work, tricky part is fitting to transom. I will post some more pictures when I get that far. I am still debating on the chines, might use split pipe to round them. it would look a lot nicer, thinking of useing sch 80 6" or 8" pipe then I wouldnt need chine doubler plates. Lot of pros and cons on the changes Im doing but the way I look at it, it will be the way I want it, if not its nothing a cutting torch cant handle. Have you orderd your plans yet or are you still debating on the 26 ? Tom ----- Original Message ----- From: "bert andjan" To: Sent: Friday, January 20, 2006 6:24 PM Subject: [origamiboats] Re: BS 26 questions... > Thanks as usual old Ben and Tom, > > Well, Ben, I'm 6'4.5"tall, shrinking 1 cm per > year...as I age, so if I wait long enough .... ;-) > > And I need 40.5" of room to sit without my balding > head getting banged. > > And I don't need standing head room in a 26, but it'd > be nice to see how close I can get if I increase the > crown for headroom and lower the floor a bit for foot > room, if possible. > > I'm not Dutch, rather: Austrian and Deutsch, yah. > > And I'm real interested in the BS 26, so I'm cheering > for you guys who are already building. > > And as far as bashing the government, which deserves > some bashing now and than cuz its made up of imperfect > humans like us, but I'm reminded of the addage: "Any > old jack ass can kick over a yacht, but it takes a > craftsman to build one!" > > Keep up the good work, > > Bert in Saginaw, Mi > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > | 10245|10237|2006-01-21 13:13:29|Puck III|Re: BS 26 questions...|Hi Bert , sorry for the late reply , I wanted to compare the volumes on two different boats before that . ---------- --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, bert andjan wrote: > > Thanks as usual old Ben and Tom, > > Well, Ben, I'm 6'4.5"tall, shrinking 1 cm per > year...as I age, so if I wait long enough .... ;-) > > And I need 40.5" of room to sit without my balding > head getting banged. > > And I don't need standing head room in a 26, but it'd > be nice to see how close I can get if I increase the > crown for headroom and lower the floor a bit for foot > room, if possible. Thanks for the exact measurements , the needed height when sitting is the important factor not to bang your head . Cause there is more than enough room in the BS 26' to let you stand easely up straight :-) > > I'm not Dutch, rather: Austrian and Deutsch, yah. Hoping you still read some German , see http://cruisenews.net/images/Puck/ to see how easy it is to design headroom in a 19' boat , just go over the article and imagine the BS 26' as a much larger and more easy to accomodate boat . > > And I'm real interested in the BS 26, so I'm cheering > for you guys who are already building. > > And as far as bashing the government, which deserves > some bashing now and than cuz its made up of imperfect > humans like us, but I'm reminded of the addage: "Any > old jack ass can kick over a yacht, but it takes a > craftsman to build one!" > > Keep up the good work, > > Bert in Saginaw, Mi I am convinced you are on the right track choosing for the BS 26' , it sure looks a slippery cruising sailboat hull to me . She will be happy with a low hp engine to accomplish her hull speed , AND with a bit of Luck I hope to go easely over the hull speed . Just some tuning here and there.......:-) I had no idea the Pacific US coast was that pretty Oregon sure looks unspoiled yet . A sound boat in those waters , cause the Pacific sure does not look that Peacefull all the time , is a major safety factor . Ask anything , I will gladly respond :-) Old Ben > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > | 10246|10031|2006-01-21 14:46:03|evanmoonjunk|Re: Admi's BS 26...|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "tom" wrote: > > Hello Evan > Thankyou for the info > When you say you stretched it to 28' did you just expand the pattern around > > >Hi Tom, it was a long time ago but if I remember right I basicly added 1" to the foot to get the larger size...Evan > > > > > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > | 10247|9840|2006-01-21 16:48:37|tom|BS 26|Hey Old Ben Are you building the 26 allso ? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]| 10248|10211|2006-01-21 17:33:11|..|Re: BS 26 questions...|Hi Ben, The reason for deciding to build a BS design is that Brent has a proven track record with 100+ built and by sailing his own yachts across the pacific,he also supplies the drawings and the shape of the developed plates which forms the hull shape. As there have been no BS26 built other than Dove we cannot judge the sailing abilities but as it appears to be one of Brent's larger design scaled down, with a draft of 3-0 ft then we can assume that it will also sail well. > , on the other hand we are working to >reduce the draft to the maximum ,but well within >EU new regulations , 60 to 65 centimetres is the goal. >Tilapia seems a fine example , se : >http://www.buildingyourboat.com/tiki-browse_gallery.php?galleryId= I was not aware that you were also working on redesigning the hull or increasing the draft as you state above to comply with EU regulations, what do the EU regs have to do with the draft? and where dose the 60>65 cm come from? When Brent's design is altered it will no longer be a BS26 with some relationship to Brent's other yachts,it will be an unknown design with no proven performance,who will be responsible for the hull plate development, also the altered design may not even be a developable to a flat plate. I am sure a number of the members of this group are quite able to alter the design but would be wary of doing so, who would be prepared to to take the risk of building one to test its performance? Will Brent wish his BS26 design to be changed, as should it not be successful it will reflect on him and his designs,maybe he is also involved in these changes to his design. Will Brent be offering this new design as a development of of his design? Who will own the modified design? it is not without problems when partial changes are made someone's design. Geoff --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.859 / Virus Database: 585 - Release Date: 14/02/2005 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]| 10249|9840|2006-01-21 18:50:13|Puck III|Re: BS 26|Hi Tom , I hope to be assigned as foreman , measurer and teacher to a crew I have not seen for now , professional welders will weld , I will measure and do the woodwork, cause I love working with wood and know how to build a boat . The place where the boat will be build looks fine and I hope those Belgians will take good care of me . A bungalow and good food goes with the deal . They will not forget the beer , cause we Belgians like good Beer :-) You must know some Belgian Brands . I hope to do the job as fast as possible . Thats why Brent's method was choosen . I can only repeat what I said earlyer : I was sceptical as usual , but it was Alex's fine video where I saw Brent Swain at work that explained it all and convinced me . But in a way Tom , you convinced Admi to buy the plans and persue her project , with those selfexplaining pics you posted . Please continue to do soo . Another Belgian prospect from my club bought the book more than a year ago . Admi is hoping more than 1 buyer will show up :-) I think her project has potential , especialy localy where import taxes are extreemly high. Time will tell , I will keep the Group posted . Please do the same . Old Ben --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "tom" wrote: > > Hey Old Ben > Are you building the 26 allso ? > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > | 10250|10195|2006-01-21 18:52:45|brentswain38|Re: Lee helm problems...|Most so far have had a totally neutral helm.You could move the forestay back a bit on the bow fitting.You could try a bit more rake. Too short a foot on the main will give you a lee helm.How long is the foot on your main? A slight lee helm will turn into a weather helm in stronger winds. A slight weather helm in light winds can often turn into a too strong weather helm in stronger winds. I'd prefer the former. Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "jonhackett44" wrote: > > I'm experiencing a lee helm condition on my 36' bilge keeler. Has > anyone had a similar problem? > I have raked the mast aft, gone to a smaller jib(100%), tried heeling > her more(35degrees average), and fattened up the mainsail draft. > She'll hold her course on all points of sail until I pinch her to > weather. > Any suggestions? > Thanks, > Jon > | 10251|10211|2006-01-21 19:00:43|Alex Christie|Re: BS 26 questions...|I think there is more than Dove3 as representative of a BS 26...I saw one twin keeler 11 years ago in Victoria for sale (which I now wish i bought, at $12,000 Canadian!), and there is Chica, the black hulled 26 footer somewhere in these parts. I am Brent also said that one sailed down to Australia, single-handed I believe (Brent please correct if I am wrong on that) many years ago. I'd love to build one to test out an electric drive system, but I'm wrapped up in my 36 footer right now! Ah, if cost were no object! But then I'd have never looked into this fascinating process we call boat building :-) As far as changing a design, well, people have done it, for instance the 28 footer that Evan pulled together for Kim. Alex| 10252|10211|2006-01-21 20:11:32|Puck III|Re: BS 26 questions...|Hi Geoff , I will respond between the lines , cause that is more easy for me . --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, ".." wrote: > > Hi Ben, > The reason for deciding to build a BS design is that Brent has a > proven track record with 100+ built and by sailing his own yachts > across the pacific,he also supplies the drawings and the shape of > the developed plates which forms the hull shape. --------- That is a correct statement for sure . --------- > As there have been no BS26 built other than Dove we cannot judge > the sailing abilities but as it appears to be one of Brent's larger > design scaled down, with a draft of 3-0 ft then we can assume that > it will also sail well. --------- I have no way of controling what you say , please post a Link to gwpdesign . I never assume anything , I judge waterlines when I see them , and measure performance with precise instruments when a boat is sailing in all types of windforce and different seastates. I leave it to the classic Nautical Press to judge the boats I build , their quality and performance . In France only Madame Soleil [ Lady Sunshine ] deals in predictions . > > > , on the other hand we are working to > >reduce the draft to the maximum ,but well within > >EU new regulations , 60 to 65 centimetres is the goal. > >Tilapia seems a fine example , se : > >http://www.buildingyourboat.com/tiki-browse_gallery.php?galleryId= > > > I was not aware that you were also working on redesigning the hull or > increasing the draft as you state above to comply with EU regulations, Who the Hell told you I was redesigning the hull ??? Where in heavens name did I talked about increasing draft ?? > what do the EU regs have to do with the draft? and where dose the > 60>65 cm come from? Indeed , what do EU regs have to do with the draft alone ? What dose are you talking about ??? > When Brent's design is altered it will no longer be a BS26 with some > relationship to Brent's other yachts,it will be an unknown design with > no proven performance,who will be responsible for the hull plate > development, also the altered design may not even be a developable to > a flat plate. You look a very concerned and woried man , but you are correct 100%!!! But Who the Hell told you Brent Swains design was gone be altered , sure not me :-) > I am sure a number of the members of this group are quite able to > alter the design but would be wary of doing so, who would be > prepared to to take the risk of building one to test its performance? I am not in the habit off taking any risks , if you have a real interest in buying a BS 26', may I suggest you try one or wait for the professional press to render their judgement . > Will Brent wish his BS26 design to be changed, as should it not be > successful it will reflect on him and his designs,maybe he is also > involved in these changes to his design. Sorry to confirm , nothing is changed on Brent Swain's Design :-) > Will Brent be offering this new design as a development of of his > design? Since I know of no Design Changes planned by Brent Swain or anyone else , I sure hope Brent Swain will lett us know in this Group when such changes would occure . > Who will own the modified design? it is not without problems when > partial changes are made someone's design. > Geoff > Do you have an interest investing in a modified design ? Frankly Geoff , your concerns about possible problems look extreemly strange to me , I can make no real sense out of your statements , suggestions and questions :-) Thanks for all the interest you express . Please buy the design you prefer and care to bye . Testing before you bye sure is the perfect option for you . Old Ben | 10253|9840|2006-01-21 21:10:27|tom|Re: BS 26|Hello Old Ben Sounds like your going to have a fun job on it and it should go together pretty fast, if I recall right Brent mentioned he did all the steel work in 21 days on one. I think Admi's project has potential allso, Its one of those things you never know till you try and my hats off to her for at least trying. Seem like most people only dream about doing something like that but it never goes any farther than that for one reason or another. What keel arrangement are you going with? I will be posting more pictures when I start working on it again, been busy at work between the rains Tom ----- Original Message ----- From: "Puck III" To: Sent: Saturday, January 21, 2006 3:48 PM Subject: [origamiboats] Re: BS 26 > Hi Tom , I hope to be assigned as foreman , measurer and > teacher to a crew I have not seen for now , professional > welders will weld , I will measure and do the woodwork, > cause I love working with wood and know how to build > a boat . > > The place where the boat will be build looks > fine and I hope those Belgians will take good > care of me . > > A bungalow and good food goes with the deal . > They will not forget the beer , cause we Belgians > like good Beer :-) > You must know some Belgian Brands . > > I hope to do the job as fast as possible . > Thats why Brent's method was choosen . > > I can only repeat what I said earlyer : > I was sceptical as usual , but it was Alex's > fine video where I saw Brent Swain at work > that explained it all and convinced me . > > But in a way Tom , you convinced Admi to buy > the plans and persue her project , with those > selfexplaining pics you posted . > Please continue to do soo . > > Another Belgian prospect from my club bought > the book more than a year ago . Admi is > hoping more than 1 buyer will show up :-) > > I think her project has potential , especialy > localy where import taxes are extreemly high. > Time will tell , I will keep the Group posted . > Please do the same . > > Old Ben > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "tom" wrote: >> >> Hey Old Ben >> Are you building the 26 allso ? >> >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >> > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > | 10254|10254|2006-01-22 01:56:44|michaelandmonica2003|books or dvds|Are there any good books or dvd's on the "how to" process for building "Swain" hulls? We have plans for a 36' swain and are just starting to get info together before get started.| 10255|10254|2006-01-22 01:57:26|michaelandmonica2003|books or dvds|Are there any good books or dvd's on the "how to" process for building "Swain" hulls? We have plans for a 36' swain and are just starting to get info together before get started.| 10256|10254|2006-01-22 03:10:25|Alex Christie|Re: books or dvds|Well Monica and Michael, your group moderator has the answer to your question: there IS a DVD just as you requested: My DVD set "Origamiboats: The Art of Steel Boatbuilding, Vol. 1, from Plate Steel to Bare Hull" provides 3 hours of video showing the basics of pulling together a 36 footer. Cost is $53 to USA and International, shipping included. I hope soon to start on filming the follow-up Vol.2 showing fitting out the hull. Alex Christie achristie@... On 21-Jan-06, at 10:57 PM, michaelandmonica2003 wrote: > Are there any good books or dvd's on the "how to" process for > building "Swain" hulls?  We have plans for a 36' swain and are just > starting to get info together before get started. > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > SPONSORED LINKS > British columbia canada > Vancouver island > Yacht > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > ▪  Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web. >   > ▪  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >  origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com >   > ▪  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > Service. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 10257|10254|2006-01-22 06:14:25|Wesley Cox|Re: books or dvds|As others have also attested, the DVDs are excellent and they are of Brent Swain working. Alex Christie wrote: >Well Monica and Michael, your group moderator has the answer to your >question: there IS a DVD just as you requested: My DVD set >"Origamiboats: The Art of Steel Boatbuilding, Vol. 1, from Plate Steel >to Bare Hull" provides 3 hours of video showing the basics of pulling >together a 36 footer. Cost is $53 to USA and International, shipping >included. > >I hope soon to start on filming the follow-up Vol.2 showing fitting out >the hull. > >Alex Christie > >achristie@... > > >On 21-Jan-06, at 10:57 PM, michaelandmonica2003 wrote: > > > >>Are there any good books or dvd's on the "how to" process for >> building "Swain" hulls? We have plans for a 36' swain and are just >> starting to get info together before get started. >> >> >> >> >> >>To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com >> To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: >>origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com >> >> >> >>SPONSORED LINKS >>British columbia canada >>Vancouver island >>Yacht >> >>YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS >> >> ▪ Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web. >> >> ▪ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >> origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com >> >> ▪ Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of >>Service. >> >> >> >> > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > >To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com >To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > | 10258|10254|2006-01-22 06:54:47|Gerd|Re: books or dvds|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Wesley Cox wrote: > > .... the DVDs are excellent I'll second that from all my heart, if you as much as think about building origami-style, it will save you countless days in praparation and building. Only wish it had been out when I started my boat. Best value for money you will ever get in your entire project. If you DON'T plan building an origami-hull, buy the DVD anyway, because after watching it YOU WILL!!! ;-) Gerd the YAGO Project at http://www.justmueller.com/boats/| 10260|9840|2006-01-22 14:18:24|Puck III|Re: BS 26|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "tom" wrote: > > Hello Old Ben > Sounds like your going to have a fun job on it and it should go together > pretty fast, if I recall right Brent mentioned he did all the steel work in > 21 days on one. > I think Admi's project has potential allso, Its one of those things you > never know till you try and my hats off to her for at least trying. Seem > like most people only dream about doing something like that but it never > goes any farther than that for one reason or another. > What keel arrangement are you going with? > I will be posting more pictures when I start working on it again, been busy > at work between the rains > Tom -------------------------------------- Hi Tom , thanks for your positive comments , what keel arrangement will we go ? Twin keels and twin rudders , cause I would love to keep the draft at 2' Why , cause this is the easyest way to be well within EU rules , it is as simple as that . I posted to more Files for you and Bert to see in http://tinyurl.com/clz8g , in Origamiboats2 : Files > Ben's Stuff > Options -JPBonTwinkeels.jpg twinkeels article by JP Brouns Nov 18, 2005 -NDrollover1.jpg NavalDesigner Stability pic Nov 18, 2005 -Présentation RAGTIME.pdf Ragtime PDF 99 KB Jan 22, 2006 -Schwertomane3.jpg Original Ragtime 342 KB Jan 22, 2006 You can see that the Original Ragtime draft was from 18cm to 1,5m , the speed was fenomenal , so was the upwind performance ,see the weight :-) Today Ragtime is offered with 0,70m draft and twin keels to be conform with EU regulations. We could consider a combination of keels and boards , but renewed studies by most architects in the EU , to design at the lowest cost for the best performance with twinkeelers replacing the integral centerboarders , show excellent performance with new low draft keels as you can see in Tilapia : http://www.buildingyourboat.com/tiki-browse_gallery.php?galleryId=6 We received a good reception by most : today I not only bring the BS 26' into EU regulations, but two nice Frenchies will import the beautifull Chuck Paine designed Norseboat from Canada , see http://www.norseboat.com/ so we have to do that certification as well . http://www.belgianboatshow.be/ is the Link to the Gent Belgian Boatshow opening 11 feb , all for the new " Origami BennyProa " must be prepared :-) Being bussy keeps the mind sharp :-) I will keep you posted . Old Ben -------------------------------------- > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Puck III" > To: > Sent: Saturday, January 21, 2006 3:48 PM > Subject: [origamiboats] Re: BS 26 > > > > Hi Tom , I hope to be assigned as foreman , measurer and > > teacher to a crew I have not seen for now , professional > > welders will weld , I will measure and do the woodwork, > > cause I love working with wood and know how to build > > a boat . > > > > The place where the boat will be build looks > > fine and I hope those Belgians will take good > > care of me . > > > > A bungalow and good food goes with the deal . > > They will not forget the beer , cause we Belgians > > like good Beer :-) > > You must know some Belgian Brands . > > > > I hope to do the job as fast as possible . > > Thats why Brent's method was choosen . > > > > I can only repeat what I said earlyer : > > I was sceptical as usual , but it was Alex's > > fine video where I saw Brent Swain at work > > that explained it all and convinced me . > > > > But in a way Tom , you convinced Admi to buy > > the plans and persue her project , with those > > selfexplaining pics you posted . > > Please continue to do soo . > > > > Another Belgian prospect from my club bought > > the book more than a year ago . Admi is > > hoping more than 1 buyer will show up :-) > > > > I think her project has potential , especialy > > localy where import taxes are extreemly high. > > Time will tell , I will keep the Group posted . > > Please do the same . > > > > Old Ben > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "tom" wrote: > >> > >> Hey Old Ben > >> Are you building the 26 allso ? > >> > >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > | 10261|10207|2006-01-22 16:46:03|brentswain38|Re: Rover 36 starting|Great news Gerd. People have been asking me for years about origami powerboats, but I've had no interest in designing one. Now I can sic them on you. Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Gerd" wrote: > > Today my friend Karoly got all the steel for his boat dumped into > his snow covered garden - tough, full of vigor and unspoiled by > prior building projects as he is, he is going to start welding the > sheets together outside in the middle of the winter ;-) > > Unfortunately I am going to freeze mine off as well, as I promised > him to help him pull the hull together ... when so far I managed to > stay nice and warm without ever setting foot on my own rust pile > since october ;-) but "Plus on est de fous, plus on s'amuse..." > > Some details for the ROVER 36 are still still on > http://www.justmueller.com/boats/_files/rover36/rover36.htm > > I will set up a proper section on my site for that project with > construction pictures coming soon. > > Plus on est de fous, plus on s'amuse... > > Gerd > the YAGO Project at http://www.justmueller.com/boats/ > | 10262|10207|2006-01-22 17:42:39|Gerd|Re: Rover 36 starting|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "brentswain38" wrote: > > Great news Gerd. People have been asking me for years about origami > powerboats, but I've had no interest in designing one. Now I can sic > them on you. > Brent thanks, Brent, only just better wait until I have the bigger parts stuck together first ;-) Actually I find it's quite fun to work on Motorboat design, with true displacement hulls - it's a different kind of problem with other solutions than sailboats. I have also been working on a smaller one, about 32 feet, along the same general lines, and really enjoy that. Even start thinking about having one for myself... must be I'm getting old ;-) Gerd The Yago Project at http://www.justmueller.com/boats/| 10263|10230|2006-01-22 19:21:20|Denis Buggy|Re: unstayed masts|ken and group please type free wing twins into google and let me know what you think ,is this the best system ever 360 degree mast rotation and recovery crane and spinnaker between masts when required sail can be in board or wing sailed outboard if required is this too good to be true denis ----- Original Message ----- From: khooper_fboats To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, January 21, 2006 3:16 AM Subject: [origamiboats] Re: unstayed masts Now, just because the Carbospars mast was incredibly expensive and poorly made does not mean that unstayed rigs aren't worth considering. The concept is sound and there are many Freedom yachts and many of Yves Tanton's boats sailing happily around with unstayed rigs right now. I posted a few messages a couple weeks ago about Rob Denney's (harryproa.com) experiments with an unstayed carbon rig designed for home construction, it's quite fascinating, check the archives or just write to Rob--he's quite accessible and will talk to anybody. --Ken To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS a.. Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web. b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 10264|10254|2006-01-23 06:07:54|Alex Christie|Re: books or dvds|Honestly, I didn't pay those guys to say nice things about my boatbuilding DVD..... but I might HAVE to now! Alex On 22-Jan-06, at 3:54 AM, Gerd wrote: > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Wesley Cox wrote: > > > > .... the DVDs are excellent > I'll second that from all my heart, if you as much as think about > building origami-style, it will save you countless days in praparation > and building. Only wish it had been out when I started my boat. Best > value for money you will ever get in your entire project. > > If you DON'T plan building an origami-hull, buy the DVD anyway, > because after watching it YOU WILL!!! ;-) > > Gerd > the YAGO Project at http://www.justmueller.com/boats/ > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 10265|10254|2006-01-23 06:46:46|Puck III|Re: books or dvds|Hi Alex , we honestly are hoping you will pay us a beer or a glas of fine wine should we meet one day :-) http://www.belgianboatshow.be/ the show start soon , the usual rate is a beer per DVD , will I remain sober ? Old Ben --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Alex Christie wrote: > > Honestly, I didn't pay those guys to say nice things about my > boatbuilding DVD..... but I might HAVE to now! > > Alex > > > On 22-Jan-06, at 3:54 AM, Gerd wrote: > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Wesley Cox wrote: > > > > > > .... the DVDs are excellent > > I'll second that from all my heart, if you as much as think about > > building origami-style, it will save you countless days in praparation > > and building. Only wish it had been out when I started my boat. Best > > value for money you will ever get in your entire project. > > > > If you DON'T plan building an origami-hull, buy the DVD anyway, > > because after watching it YOU WILL!!! ;-) > > > > Gerd > > the YAGO Project at http://www.justmueller.com/boats/ > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > | 10266|10230|2006-01-23 08:21:50|Puck III|Re: unstayed masts|Hi All , Hi Groups Owner and Moderators ,Hi Denis , Hi Ken , Denis and Ken , I posted an answer and some thoughts about your posts in Origamiboats 3 , just as a test that may be interesting , but I rather wait for directions from the Groups Owner and the Moderators to see if the test has any value or not . If you can't wait , I suggest you go and read . To post Multihull matters , pics , files and photos in Origamiboats3 may be a stupid idea , is it usefull ? who am I to judge ? I wonder what other members are thinking about the idea ? I think the wisest thing is to wait for appraisal by the Owner and the Moderators , I sure would respect a decision saying the Multihull posts are not on Topic especialy not when it is not about OrigamiBoats . Old Ben --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Denis Buggy" wrote: > > ken and group please type free wing twins into google and let me know what you think ,is this the best system ever 360 degree mast rotation and recovery crane and spinnaker between masts when required sail can be in board or wing sailed outboard if required is this too good to be true denis > ----- Original Message ----- > From: khooper_fboats > To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Saturday, January 21, 2006 3:16 AM > Subject: [origamiboats] Re: unstayed masts > > > > Now, just because the Carbospars mast was incredibly expensive and > poorly made does not mean that unstayed rigs aren't worth considering. > The concept is sound and there are many Freedom yachts and many of > Yves Tanton's boats sailing happily around with unstayed rigs right now. > > I posted a few messages a couple weeks ago about Rob Denney's > (harryproa.com) experiments with an unstayed carbon rig designed for > home construction, it's quite fascinating, check the archives or just > write to Rob--he's quite accessible and will talk to anybody. > > --Ken > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats- unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------- > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > a.. Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web. > > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------- > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > | 10267|10254|2006-01-23 08:30:39|Gerd|Re: books or dvds|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III" wrote: > > the usual rate is a beer per DVD , > will I remain sober ? What you mean, old ben... you bought several of them? nobody told you that you can use them DVDs several times and don't need to throw the empty ones away after watching ???! ;-) Gerd| 10268|10230|2006-01-23 08:40:16|tom|Re: unstayed masts|Hello Denis It looks like it would be an awesome system for short handed crew on cruising cat but I wonder how much windward ability would be sacrificed vs. sloop rig Tom ----- Original Message ----- From: "Denis Buggy" To: Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2006 4:21 PM Subject: Re: [origamiboats] Re: unstayed masts > ken and group please type free wing twins into google and let me know > what you think ,is this the best system ever 360 degree mast rotation and > recovery crane and spinnaker between masts when required sail can be in > board or wing sailed outboard if required is this too good to be true > denis > ----- Original Message ----- > From: khooper_fboats > To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Saturday, January 21, 2006 3:16 AM > Subject: [origamiboats] Re: unstayed masts > > > > Now, just because the Carbospars mast was incredibly expensive and > poorly made does not mean that unstayed rigs aren't worth considering. > The concept is sound and there are many Freedom yachts and many of > Yves Tanton's boats sailing happily around with unstayed rigs right now. > > I posted a few messages a couple weeks ago about Rob Denney's > (harryproa.com) experiments with an unstayed carbon rig designed for > home construction, it's quite fascinating, check the archives or just > write to Rob--he's quite accessible and will talk to anybody. > > --Ken > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > a.. Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web. > > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > Service. > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > | 10269|10230|2006-01-23 09:48:52|khooper_fboats|Re: unstayed masts|Biplane rigs are cool and interesting but I think most people start to balk when they realize they will have to pay for two of everything (including substantially stronger akas and amas, not just rigs and sails). --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "tom" wrote: > > Hello Denis > It looks like it would be an awesome system for short handed crew on > cruising cat but I wonder how much windward ability would be sacrificed vs. > sloop rig > Tom > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Denis Buggy" > To: > Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2006 4:21 PM > Subject: Re: [origamiboats] Re: unstayed masts > > > > ken and group please type free wing twins into google and let me know > > what you think ,is this the best system ever 360 degree mast rotation and > > recovery crane and spinnaker between masts when required sail can be in > > board or wing sailed outboard if required is this too good to be true > > denis > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: khooper_fboats > > To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Saturday, January 21, 2006 3:16 AM > > Subject: [origamiboats] Re: unstayed masts > > > > > > > > Now, just because the Carbospars mast was incredibly expensive and > > poorly made does not mean that unstayed rigs aren't worth considering. > > The concept is sound and there are many Freedom yachts and many of > > Yves Tanton's boats sailing happily around with unstayed rigs right now. > > > > I posted a few messages a couple weeks ago about Rob Denney's > > (harryproa.com) experiments with an unstayed carbon rig designed for > > home construction, it's quite fascinating, check the archives or just > > write to Rob--he's quite accessible and will talk to anybody. > > > > --Ken > > | 10270|10254|2006-01-23 09:49:32|Puck III|Re: books or dvds|Hick , since I work with some nice guys from Poland, I sure know what it means to have a drink ..... I became a big [ really big ] fan of KAYAH , such a big fan I could not resist posting a pic :-) http://www.buildingyourboat.com/tiki-browse_gallery.php?galleryId=6 is where you gone find that Pic , stay calm Gerd , she looks realy swell :-) Old Ben --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Gerd" wrote: > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III" wrote: > > > > the usual rate is a beer per DVD , > > will I remain sober ? > > What you mean, old ben... you bought several of them? nobody told you > that you can use them DVDs several times and don't need to throw the > empty ones away after watching ???! ;-) > > Gerd > | 10271|10271|2006-01-23 09:57:20|tom|unstayed mast|Hello all My two cents on unstayed mast, it may be cleaner on deck without the standing rigging but there has ben several times the shrowds or forstay were the only thing I had to grab to keep from going overboard plus I like the idea of the rigging destibuting the loads on the hull instead of just the partners. another thing to think about, stepping the mast and what would be involved. One of the things they say are great about unstayed mast is it lets the top of the mast fall off leward in a puff, well this is nothing new, I used to race santana 20's and the norm was to run the lowers tighter than the uppers to have the same effect. Maybee Im a traditionalist but I sure wont be switching to a unstayed mast anytime soon Tom [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]| 10272|10230|2006-01-23 14:59:55|edward_stoneuk|Re: unstayed masts|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "khooper_fboats" wrote: > > > Biplane rigs are cool and interesting but I think most people start to > balk when they realize they will have to pay for two of everything > (including substantially stronger akas and amas, not just rigs and sails). Ken, What are akas and amas? Regards, Ted| 10273|10222|2006-01-23 15:15:20|edward_stoneuk|Re: the Loo onboard .|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III" wrote: > > Hi Ted , could you post us a pic ? > What you describe reminds me of Michael Paillin > crossing the Arabian Sea from the Gulf to India > on a Dow , the Loo was well ventilated , > totaly out of the boat on the afthside . > You may have seen the series : > around the world under 80 days . Ben, We have looked through the indexes of our collection of Practical Boat Owners and Sailing Today's, I am pretty certain that it was in one of those but no luck. In due course we will look more thoroughly. The problem is that they are full of interesting articles that I cannot remember seeing before and some issues are missing. Regards, Ted| 10274|10230|2006-01-23 16:03:58|edward_stoneuk|Re: unstayed masts|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "pisforpaulie" wrote: > > hello. looking for knowledge of unstayed masts - gazelle junk rigs and > other junk rigs also cat-ketch rigs. can these rigs withstand a > rollover? how do you heave-to with them? colvin has a headsail. > others do not. any opinions / experience in these matters will be > appreciated. thanks. > Hello name, There is a yahoo group for Junk rig enthusiasts. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/junkrig/?yguid=25540395. Many junk rigs use unstayed masts but not all. Tom Colvin's Gazelle uses loose stays to stop the mast whipping. Some Breton and Normand fishing boats, often lug rigged, used unstayed masts. See http://perso.wanadoo.fr/turbert-granvillaise/granvillaise/fp- granvillaise.html. I am not quite sure if these are unstayed but they look as if there isn't much standing rigging and they look spectacular. Lug rigs from other countries were often on unstayed masts. In the early days of aeroplanes the wings had standing rigging now they don't. The load the wings take is phenominal. Will an unstayed mast withstand a roll-over? Some stayed masts don't. Will a car withstand a roll over? It is a function of design. One misses a stay to hang on to when climbing aboard. Regards, Ted| 10275|10211|2006-01-23 17:03:10|..|Re: BS 26 questions...|Ben, >Do you have an interest investing in a modified design ? >Frankly Geoff , your concerns about possible problems >look extremely strange to me , I can make no real >sense out of your statements , suggestions and questions : ---------------------------------------------------------------- I was only attempting to clarify some of your conflicting statements made in your previous posts, as you have contradicted yourself a number of times. as above "do you have an interest investing in a modified design" when in another statement you say "nothing is change in BS design" Then "we are working to reduce the daft" Is this not changing something on the underwater profile. Are you modifying/changing the the design or not. The Facts are that the draft of the BS26 is 3-0 ft (91.5 cm) if you or the naval architects are trying to reduce the draft to 60-65 cm then the design is being modified/change which might affect the performance. Tom has informed me that the hull itself has 2-0 ft (61 cm) draft, so there has to be some changes to the design to achieve 60-65 cm. You appear defensive and brush aside questions,in a patronising way as being negative,critical,and of no importance,are you so defensive because you have you dug a hole for yourself with this project by having committed others to a considerable investment. I hope Admi's project is successful and look forward to seeing the design and the finished yacht. There is no point continuing this discussion if you are unable to reply in a civil manner and do not understand the questions which I cannot make any simpler,or maybe you are having difficulty translating the questions. Thanks to Alix and Brent and Tom we now know that there are 3 of BS26 sailing somewhere and the draft is 3-0 ft (91.5 cm) Geoff [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]| 10276|10230|2006-01-23 17:04:50|khooper_fboats|Re: unstayed masts|> What are akas and amas? An ama is one hull of a cat, or one of the "outriggers" of a trimaran or a proa. An aka is the structure connecting the amas together. A biplane rig is buried in the amas, which would then have huge torsional forces they would not see in a mono-rig mounted in the center. Likewise the akas would have the masts trying to lever the amas off, which is a burden they don't have to deal with at all on a more conventional multihull rig. --Ken| 10277|10254|2006-01-23 17:49:15|Gerd|Re: books or dvds|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III" wrote: > > Hick , since I work with some nice guys from Poland, > I sure know what it means to have a drink ..... > > I became a big [ really big ] fan of KAYAH , > such a big fan I could not resist posting a pic :-) > http://www.buildingyourboat.com/tiki-browse_gallery.php?galleryId=6 > is where you gone find that Pic , Old Ben, i will stop following your links as more often than not they take us to some unrelated stuff, and that is if we are lucky... If we want to see some peeing ladies there are groups more appropriate than yahoo.origamiboats for that . For my part, I would prefer you would stop posting that rubbish here please - no offense meant.| 10278|10230|2006-01-23 19:06:36|Denis Buggy|Re: unstayed masts|----- Original Message ----- From: khooper_fboats To: tom and all thanks for the replies i do not know what a sloop rig is and cannot comment , i did not intend any multihull discussion i simply typed the current topic unstayed masts into google and freewing came up and i have never came accross a review or reference to them before and i wonder has anybody heard of them , i keep coming accross devlopements in sail technology which is banned as soon as it is invented and thats the last anybody seems to hear of them see krazy k kote a french boat disqualified from the adrimals cup for a new mast and sail . the free wing people make a reference to winning some south africian races single hull again i am no judge however it seems to have a very safe system of unloading the sail simply let go all and the wind will do the rest and swing the mast to a useless angle like pointing a weathercock , is this practial / common / safe , are the races won evidence of true worth and why are they not common in use world wide if such a simple system . regards denis > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com SPONSORED LINKS British columbia canada Vancouver island Yacht [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 10279|10230|2006-01-23 23:12:16|tom|Re: unstayed masts|Hello denis Sloop might not be the right term but the sailing crowd Ive hung with use it, basacly its like Brents boats but with one headsail, the twin headsail setup we call a cutter. Politics of the race commity and yacht clubs, well they can be little goofy when it comes to something new or different and sometimes just fast, been there myself helping race commity, port captain durring races ext. and somtimes I wonderd, what the heck are you thinking. I was disqualified in a race once just because the guy doing race commity didnt like the boat I was on and felt it shouldnt be on the coarse, well to make a long story short I proved them wrong by there own books on all accounts then I was told not to bring that boat to the starting line anymore. I know this is a little off the topic of origami boats but just making a point of how easy it is to get a boat banned from race ----- Original Message ----- From: "Denis Buggy" To: Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 4:07 PM Subject: Re: [origamiboats] Re: unstayed masts > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: khooper_fboats > To: tom and all thanks for the replies i do not know what a sloop rig > is and cannot comment , i did not intend any multihull discussion i > simply typed the current topic unstayed masts into google and freewing > came up and i have never came accross a review or reference to them > before and i wonder has anybody heard of them , i keep coming accross > devlopements in sail technology which is banned as soon as it is invented > and thats the last anybody seems to hear of them see krazy k kote a french > boat disqualified from the adrimals cup for a new mast and sail . > the free wing people make a reference to winning some south africian > races single hull again i am no judge however it seems to have a very > safe system of unloading the sail simply let go all and the wind will do > the rest and swing the mast to a useless angle like pointing a > weathercock , is this practial / common / safe , are the races won > evidence of true worth and why are they not common in use world wide if > such a simple system . regards denis > > > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > > SPONSORED LINKS > British columbia canada Vancouver island Yacht > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > | 10280|10254|2006-01-24 01:15:49|Puck III|Re: books or dvds|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Gerd" wrote: > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III" wrote: > > since I work with some nice guys from Poland, > > I became a big [ really big ] fan of KAYAH , > > such a big fan I could not resist posting a pic :-) > > http://www.buildingyourboat.com/tiki-browse_gallery.php?galleryId=6 > > is where you gone find that Pic , --------- > Old Ben, i will stop following your links as more often than not they > take us to some unrelated stuff, and that is if we are lucky... > ... For my part, I would prefer you > would stop posting that rubbish here please - no offense meant. --------- Hi Gerd , from time to time it is better to sit back a while and think twice before posting anything :-) Thanks for your opinion . Following your previous demands i posted sources on all pics and links I posted lately , so it would be more easy for you to follow :-) You asked for photos to be posted outside the Group with a direct link so all could find them , wish I did. Ok , I will from now on only post a direct Link to the picture and not to the album , that is easy to do :-) See http://tinyurl.com/azylp hoping you find the http://tinyurl.com/daojh also on the pic to find the test, of a little twinkeeler with Europen RCD . Don't deny me the freedom of posting pics please :-) You remain free to watch , what you like !!! I sure will not stop following your Posts , even if I consider some real rubbish , no offence meant . Feel free to post whatever you like , you will find some of my reflexions , all relevant to the Topic in this Group about your - European RCD - thread. : --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Gerd" wrote: > I thought this might merit a thread of it's own. > Actually, meeting the RCD requirements is not so difficult - even > the worst commercially produced rubbish makes it, no? ;-) > > The directive itself really requires only the strict minimum of what > we would consider a seaworthy boat anyway. For example, concerning > stability, the AVS (angle of vanishing stability) is set low enough > so that catamarans can make it, and there is no mention of inverted > I have no doubt that all of Brents designs, and probably 99 % of the other designs out there on the > market could produce a boat that would pass the requirements > (including my own) ------------------ I have no doubt Brent Swain's designs can obtain EU certification. Yago could obtain it eventualy by altering the keel and deck :-) EU certification is not relevant outside the EU , on the other hand it is nice to know a boat you consider building will recover from an eventual capsize . ------------------ > In some respects, it would even have a negative effect on our boats > if we would tryx to comply: for example, not only the boat but also > the some of the equipment has to be certified, meaning a > brent-style bullet proof self-made hatch would need to be replaced > with a more flimsy commercial but certified product. ------------------ You must be joking :-) ------------------ > Most designers here in Europe are realistic and honest enough to > tell amateurs not to bother. Some will say that their designs are > RCD compliant - but careful, this does not mean anything else than > that basic stability and flooding calculations give results that > are within the required parameters,.. ------------------ Honnest designers adapt there designs according to the more stringend EU rules , as an example cause you must have miss't post 10260 : ------------------ Twin keels and twin rudders , cause I would love to keep the draft at 2' Why , cause this is the easyest way to be well within EU rules , it is as simple as that . I posted to more Files for you and Bert to see in http://tinyurl.com/clz8g , in Origamiboats2 : Files > Ben's Stuff > Options -JPBonTwinkeels.jpg twinkeels article by JP Brouns Nov 18, 2005 -NDrollover1.jpg NavalDesigner Stability pic Nov 18, 2005 -Présentation RAGTIME.pdf Ragtime PDF 99 KB Jan 22, 2006 -Schwertomane3.jpg Original Ragtime 342 KB Jan 22, 2006 You can see that the Original Ragtime draft was from 18cm to 1,5m , the speed was fenomenal , so was the upwind performance ,see the weight :-) Today Ragtime is offered with 0,70m draft and twin keels to be conform with EU regulations. We could consider a combination of keels and boards , but renewed studies by most architects in the EU , to design at the lowest cost for the best performance with twinkeelers replacing the integral centerboarders , show excellent performance with new low draft keels as you can see in Tilapia : http://www.buildingyourboat.com/tiki-browse_gallery.php?galleryId=6 ---------------------- > > The real difficulty is the preparation of the file. If you see that > even some smaller yards prefer to ask specialized agents to handle > that for them, and for a lot of money, you will understand that for > an amateur without the connections and experience this is probably > a royal pain in the ass, and quite expensive on top of that. > ....it is still not difficult enough to get the RCD... but again, > it is NOT REQUIRED if you build for yourself and do not sell > within the first 5 years. > > If in spite of that you really want to know what's in it, go to > http://www.rsg.be/ or > http://www.imci.org/languages/englishlanguage/index1.html > but don't forget to take a sixpack, something to eat and warm > closing, because you won't be coming back anytime soon ;-) > Gerd > The Yago project at http://www.justmueller.com/boats/ ----------------------------------------------------------------- I suggest you take a sixpack , and if it is so easy as you claim it is , to simply obtain your EU certification :-) or shutt the fuck up about what EU designers should do or not :-) Sceptical Old Ben ----------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Gerd" Date: Mon Jan 23, 2006 11:44 pm Subject: Re: books or dvds > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III" wrote: > > I became a big [ really big ] fan of KAYAH , > > such a big fan I could not resist posting a pic :-) http://www.buildingyourboat.com/tiki-browse_gallery.php?galleryId=6 > > is where you gone find that Pic , > > Old Ben, i will stop following your links as more often than not they > take us to some unrelated stuff, and that is if we are lucky... > For my part, I would prefer you would stop posting that rubbish here > please - no offense meant. -------------- | 10281|10281|2006-01-24 01:47:28|Alex|Moderation|Ok everyone, change of topic, let's not fan the flames here. Alex| 10282|10282|2006-01-24 03:13:58|Gerd|EU rules|Ok, back to business ;-) Old Ben, in which way do you think that Brents boats need modifications to pass EU rules? Maybe I misunderstood you there, but I had the impression that you planned modifications in draft in order to comply? If anything, they are on the conservative side and should easily comply for stability and flooding requirements, scantling is generous, and although I do not have a lines plan and can not verify that, I really can't see any problem there, fin or bilge keels... ? What would be for sure a lot of work is to prepare and pass the certification - this really does not make much sense for a single amateur built boat, but is required if you want to commercialize them. People unfamiliar with the RCD should realize though that the RCD does NOT certify the design as such but the finished product "boat", either individually as in an amateur build or as identical boats from THE SAME YARD! Actually, depending on size and class, there is even a sort of "on the honour" system, where the yard simply declares that the boat complies... In other words, if the BS 26 as build by one yard in Belgium is certified, this does NOT mean that an amateur building his own boat to the same plan in the field right next to the yard will automatically have a certification. So, if you would go though that not easy process that would surely add another level of respectability to Brents already long list of proven archievements, but would not dispense somebody building a BS 26 in England or Germany or Belgium from having to go through the same process again for himself. BTW, the RCD does not require boats to have fixed keels ;-) there are lots of boat with RCD "A" that do not have fixed keels but lifting keels, boards and/or all-inside ballast etc, even catamarans without ballast and keels altogether ;-) BTW, to prevent any misunderstanding: I did not mean to say "don't bother to comply" to the already not very strict desing requirements, on the contrary. They are really the absolute minimum of what you would expect for seaworthy boat. What I mean is that somebody should not bother to APPLY for the certif for a boat for own use unless he already knows that he will sell withín five years. Exceptions to this would be boats that are home built but intended for professional use (renting, charter...), in which case it is required in many countries and by many insurance companies anyway. You can also always pass it later, should your change your mind, just before selling it. Gerd The Yago Project at http://www.justmueller.com/boats/| 10283|9840|2006-01-24 04:20:08|edward_stoneuk|BS 26|Hi Ben, Are you modifying the BS 26 design so that it can be put in an ISO container for shipping out of Africa? Regards, Ted| 10285|10285|2006-01-24 15:57:23|mickeyolaf|A Fair Hull|If anyone would like to see a really beautifully finished steel yacht go to WWW.solanderyachts.com. I was out on her on Sunday afternnoon for a cruise in Burrard Inlet. I have never seen a fairer hull built in steel. Quiet John Deere diesel. Absolute class finishings. Walk around engine room. 6'8" headroom. She was faired using premixed epoxy fairing compound and longboarded with 8 foot longboards made from foam. Different coloured epoxy was used to show highs and lows as the sanding progressed. The final fairing was pencil marks sanded away evenly. The interior is birds eye maple. I first thought the boat was fiberglass and that the mold must have been beyond perfect. She's framed steel with an aluminum house with final finish Awlgrip paint. I asked how long it took to fair her hull and the answer was "months". My brother and I were planning to fair out my Swain 36 over a couple of weeks including painting. Maybe not. The Solander Yacht(not the Swain 36)is for sale for $1,950,000.00 US.| 10286|10285|2006-01-24 18:00:22|cirejay|Re: A Fair Hull|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "mickeyolaf" wrote: > > If anyone would like to see a really beautifully finished steel yacht > go to WWW.solanderyachts.com. > I was out on her on Sunday afternnoon for a cruise in Burrard Inlet. I > have never seen a fairer hull built in steel. Quiet The Amazons (?) from out your way had some pretty darn fair hulls. I remember seeing one at the Annapolis show about 20 years ago or so. Occasionally you see a used one for sale at about the same price that they were new. eric S/V Nebaras| 10288|10288|2006-01-27 05:05:07|Puck III|Small Twin Keeler .|Hi All , a bit off Topic , cause it is not about an Origami boat , a repost from another Group with some nice pics from a small twinkeeler , some may love to have a look at her : From: "seagoinggal" Date: Wed Jan 25, 2006 8:06 pm Subject: new member intro. seagoinggal 27 year old female originally from Nebraska, USA. Just purchased a 22 foot Westerly Nomad lying in Mexico. Cruised and lived aboard my 28 foot Abbott for 8 years but decided it takes too many resources and hours to maintain. Planning to move aboard the Westerly in a little over a month after selling the Abbott. Westerly Nomad, Andunge (and-YEWN-gay, meaning duckling) is a british built twin- keeler. She has many incredible attributes (all in the eyes of the beholder I suppose and I am rather smitten with her) that include an aft hung rudder, positive buoyancy, twin keels for beaching, a cockpit that can be closed down under way to a little less than half it's original size to prevent being swamped, two comfortable sea berths, tons of storage, a killer galley, a nice anchor locker midships and many other nice qualities. Please feel free to check out the previous owners website to learn more about her and to see some great photos. http://www.geocities.com/sabakiboy402/Andunge.html I would like to circumnavigate with her and really dream of doing the canal systems of Europe. I do plan on being in the Sea of Cortez for a year or so doing some exploring before heading off to see the rest of the world. I plan on cruising with very little money (usually no more than a hundred or so dollars a month and perhaps less if I can) so I will be growing, catching, foraging my own food, making my own water, making my own energy for the electrical system (very basic), doing my own maintenance and repairs, sewing my sails and my clothes and other such activities. I am glad to have found this group and wish I had found it sooner as I am sure there is much to learn here. Cheers Laura| 10289|10285|2006-01-27 17:20:40|brentswain38|Re: A Fair Hull|The easiest way to avoid distortion and get a fair hull is to underweld them. Some Amazons were grosly underwelded. A friend went to see one under construction and noticed that there was no weld inside the cabintop- cabinside joint and the outside weld was mostly ground off, leaving metal as thin as a beer can holding the works together. He asked the builder if there was any more welding to be done and the builder said "No she's ready for foaming." I once met a Kiwi , who's friend was looking for the builder with a lawsuit, when he found that the longitudinals had a 1/2 inch tack ever three or four feet as the only welds holding them in. When he finally caught up with the builder , he declared bankrupcy. Another friend bought a hull and deck from Amazon. He asked for it m in the bare steel stage, but the buuilder insisted on priming her. When he blasted her, he found that the fairness was mostly due to thick fillers, which is why Dieter Pollock insisted on the primer. Amazons are a clear case of style over substance , something that has led to many marine disasters and also political disasters. I've heard that they also can be extremely hard to control downwind in strong winds. Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "cirejay" wrote: > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "mickeyolaf" > wrote: > > > > If anyone would like to see a really beautifully finished steel yacht > > go to WWW.solanderyachts.com. > > I was out on her on Sunday afternnoon for a cruise in Burrard Inlet. > I > > have never seen a fairer hull built in steel. Quiet > > The Amazons (?) from out your way had some pretty darn fair hulls. I > remember seeing one at the Annapolis show about 20 years ago or so. > Occasionally you see a used one for sale at about the same price that > they were new. > > eric S/V Nebaras > | 10290|10285|2006-01-27 17:28:05|brentswain38|Re: A Fair Hull|The beauty of origami boats is that they don't need any fairing or filler if done well. A friend put a john deer diesel in thinking he was getting a simple farm diesel. Nothing could be further from the truth. Because his antifreeze was not perfect the liners looked like swiss cheese after three years. The injectors and return lines were extremelty inaccessible and had an incredible number of leaky connectors on them. He wouldn't recommend a John Deer engine to anyone. Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "mickeyolaf" wrote: > > If anyone would like to see a really beautifully finished steel yacht > go to WWW.solanderyachts.com. > I was out on her on Sunday afternnoon for a cruise in Burrard Inlet. I > have never seen a fairer hull built in steel. Quiet John Deere diesel. > Absolute class finishings. Walk around engine room. 6'8" headroom. > She was faired using premixed epoxy fairing compound and longboarded > with 8 foot longboards made from foam. Different coloured epoxy was > used to show highs and lows as the sanding progressed. The final > fairing was pencil marks sanded away evenly. > The interior is birds eye maple. I first thought the boat was > fiberglass and that the mold must have been beyond perfect. She's > framed steel with an aluminum house with final finish Awlgrip paint. > I asked how long it took to fair her hull and the answer was "months". > My brother and I were planning to fair out my Swain 36 over a couple > of weeks including painting. Maybe not. > The Solander Yacht(not the Swain 36)is for sale for $1,950,000.00 US. > | 10291|10291|2006-01-27 17:31:36|SHANE ROTHWELL|Small twin keeler|Laura, Hope you picked it up dirt cheap. Other than that, you go girl! But with great care as glass, like it's namesake, shatters with a hard look, just add logs, reefs, shipping containers/whatever & it gets even more "impressive". __________________________________________________________ Find your next car at http://autos.yahoo.ca| 10292|10288|2006-01-27 17:32:47|brentswain38|Re: Small Twin Keeler .|Laura I remember sailing into Rarotonga in 73 and seeing a mastless westerly nomad in the harbour with a few scrapes on her. I asked what had happened and was told that she had hit the reef in Penrhyn at night. The locals, seeing the lights ,went out , took the crew home and put them to bed. The next morning when the crew awoke and looked out the window, they saw their boat there. The locals were just bolting the keel back on. They had gone back in the night, unbolted the keel, carried the boat into town, then went back and recoverd the keel and packed that in. Try that with a bigger boat.The Nomad is one tough little boat. Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III" wrote: > > Hi All , a bit off Topic , cause it is not about an Origami boat , > a repost from another Group with some nice pics from a small > twinkeeler , some may love to have a look at her : > > From: "seagoinggal" > Date: Wed Jan 25, 2006 8:06 pm > Subject: new member intro. seagoinggal > > 27 year old female originally from Nebraska, USA. Just purchased a 22 > foot > Westerly > Nomad lying in Mexico. Cruised and lived aboard my 28 foot Abbott for > 8 years > but > decided it takes too many resources and hours to maintain. Planning > to move > aboard the > Westerly in a little over a month after selling the Abbott. > > Westerly Nomad, Andunge (and-YEWN-gay, meaning duckling) is a british > built > twin- > keeler. > She has many incredible attributes (all in the eyes of the beholder I > suppose > and I am > rather smitten with her) that include an aft hung rudder, positive > buoyancy, > twin keels for > beaching, a cockpit that can be closed down under way to a little > less than half > it's original > size to prevent being swamped, two comfortable sea berths, tons of > storage, a > killer > galley, a nice anchor locker midships and many other nice qualities. > Please > feel free to > check out the previous owners website to learn more about her and to > see some > great > photos. > > http://www.geocities.com/sabakiboy402/Andunge.html > > I would like to circumnavigate with her and really dream of doing the > canal > systems of > Europe. I do plan on being in the Sea of Cortez for a year or so > doing some > exploring > before heading off to see the rest of the world. I plan on cruising > with very > little money > (usually no more than a hundred or so dollars a month and perhaps > less if I can) > so I will > be growing, catching, foraging my own food, making my own water, > making my own > energy for the electrical system (very basic), doing my own > maintenance and > repairs, > sewing my sails and my clothes and other such activities. I am glad > to have > found this > group and wish I had found it sooner as I am sure there is much to > learn here. > > Cheers > Laura > | 10293|10293|2006-01-28 04:33:29|Gerd|wordwide C-MAP chart online for free ;-)|somebody just posted this link in a german newsgroup, very intersting: There is a shipping company that lets you track the position of their ships in realtime. They are displayed on a complete set of C-MAP charts in full detail. Have a look at http://www.emissionshaus.com/kc/deutsch/purplefinder/index.xml and click on the button "karte anzeigen" After that, draw a rectangle on the chart where you want to zoom, or right-click on the chart for a pop-up menu neat ;-) can be useful for planning trips etc. Gerd The Yago Project at http://www.justmueller.com/boats/| 10294|10293|2006-01-28 04:46:04|Gerd|Re: wordwide C-MAP chart online for free ;-)|better, direct link: http://www.purplefinder.com/templates/purplefinder/parents/fullsize.jsp| 10295|10293|2006-01-28 05:05:37|edward_stoneuk|Re: wordwide C-MAP chart online for free ;-)|Gerd, That looks an interesting site. Unfortunately when I try to open it I get a blank page with a little red cross in the top left hand corner. Do you know how to fix it? Regards, Ted| 10296|10293|2006-01-28 05:41:05|Gerd|Re: wordwide C-MAP chart online for free ;-)|Ted, it's a JAVA applet and you need to have java installed get it at http://www.java.com/en/download/windows_ie.jsp good to have anyway... Gerd| 10297|10293|2006-01-28 13:12:20|edward_stoneuk|Re: wordwide C-MAP chart online for free ;-)|Thanks Gerd, It works now. Regards, Ted| 10298|10288|2006-01-28 16:09:07|brentswain38|Re: Small Twin Keeler .|With an inch or two of foam insulation and by filling voids it would be quite easy to make such a boat unsinkable. Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "brentswain38" wrote: > > Laura > I remember sailing into Rarotonga in 73 and seeing a mastless > westerly nomad in the harbour with a few scrapes on her. I asked > what had happened and was told that she had hit the reef in Penrhyn > at night. The locals, seeing the lights ,went out , took the crew > home and put them to bed. The next morning when the crew awoke and > looked out the window, they saw their boat there. The locals were > just bolting the keel back on. They had gone back in the night, > unbolted the keel, carried the boat into town, then went back and > recoverd the keel and packed that in. > Try that with a bigger boat.The Nomad is one tough little boat. > Brent > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III" wrote: > > > > Hi All , a bit off Topic , cause it is not about an Origami boat , > > a repost from another Group with some nice pics from a small > > twinkeeler , some may love to have a look at her : > > > > From: "seagoinggal" > > Date: Wed Jan 25, 2006 8:06 pm > > Subject: new member intro. seagoinggal > > > > 27 year old female originally from Nebraska, USA. Just purchased a > 22 > > foot > > Westerly > > Nomad lying in Mexico. Cruised and lived aboard my 28 foot Abbott > for > > 8 years > > but > > decided it takes too many resources and hours to maintain. > Planning > > to move > > aboard the > > Westerly in a little over a month after selling the Abbott. > > > > Westerly Nomad, Andunge (and-YEWN-gay, meaning duckling) is a > british > > built > > twin- > > keeler. > > She has many incredible attributes (all in the eyes of the > beholder I > > suppose > > and I am > > rather smitten with her) that include an aft hung rudder, positive > > buoyancy, > > twin keels for > > beaching, a cockpit that can be closed down under way to a little > > less than half > > it's original > > size to prevent being swamped, two comfortable sea berths, tons of > > storage, a > > killer > > galley, a nice anchor locker midships and many other nice > qualities. > > Please > > feel free to > > check out the previous owners website to learn more about her and > to > > see some > > great > > photos. > > > > http://www.geocities.com/sabakiboy402/Andunge.html > > > > I would like to circumnavigate with her and really dream of doing > the > > canal > > systems of > > Europe. I do plan on being in the Sea of Cortez for a year or so > > doing some > > exploring > > before heading off to see the rest of the world. I plan on > cruising > > with very > > little money > > (usually no more than a hundred or so dollars a month and perhaps > > less if I can) > > so I will > > be growing, catching, foraging my own food, making my own water, > > making my own > > energy for the electrical system (very basic), doing my own > > maintenance and > > repairs, > > sewing my sails and my clothes and other such activities. I am > glad > > to have > > found this > > group and wish I had found it sooner as I am sure there is much to > > learn here. > > > > Cheers > > Laura > > > | 10299|10285|2006-01-28 18:16:10|mickeyolaf|Re: A Fair Hull|I received a notice from Yanmar this year that I am to change the antifreeze every year even if it is long life Dexcool. Maybe Yanmar and John Deere have the the same problem. Yanmar called it "cavitation". I heard Ford's Powerstroke also has the same issues, pitting of the cylinder walls. I have had quite a few recalls on my Duramax diesel which is aluminum but nothing re cavitation. I changed the Dexcool at 2 years even though the manual said 5 just to be on the safe side. Maybe the John Deeres just need the antifreeze changed out every season. My hull has quite a few pulled in spots from welding and I am going to fill them with epoxy fairing compound because the unfairness would bug me every time I looked at the hull. When the well written about boat "Wanderer" was built of steel in Holland it had filler. Eric Hiscox complained about it to the bulder. --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "brentswain38" wrote: > > The beauty of origami boats is that they don't need any fairing or > filler if done well. > A friend put a john deer diesel in thinking he was getting a simple > farm diesel. Nothing could be further from the truth. Because his > antifreeze was not perfect the liners looked like swiss cheese > after three years. The injectors and return lines were extremelty > inaccessible and had an incredible number of leaky connectors on > them. He wouldn't recommend a John Deer engine to anyone. > Brent > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "mickeyolaf" > wrote: > > > > If anyone would like to see a really beautifully finished steel > yacht > > go to WWW.solanderyachts.com. > > I was out on her on Sunday afternnoon for a cruise in Burrard > Inlet. I > > have never seen a fairer hull built in steel. Quiet John Deere > diesel. > > Absolute class finishings. Walk around engine room. 6'8" headroom. > > She was faired using premixed epoxy fairing compound and > longboarded > > with 8 foot longboards made from foam. Different coloured epoxy > was > > used to show highs and lows as the sanding progressed. The final > > fairing was pencil marks sanded away evenly. > > The interior is birds eye maple. I first thought the boat was > > fiberglass and that the mold must have been beyond perfect. She's > > framed steel with an aluminum house with final finish Awlgrip > paint. > > I asked how long it took to fair her hull and the answer > was "months". > > My brother and I were planning to fair out my Swain 36 over a > couple > > of weeks including painting. Maybe not. > > The Solander Yacht(not the Swain 36)is for sale for $1,950,000.00 > US. > > > | 10300|10285|2006-01-28 20:02:57|brentswain38|Re: A Fair Hull|You can fair a hull by tacking a short longitudinal on the deepest part of the pulled in part, then jacking it out with a hydraulic jack.When it is fair, just put additional two inch tacks along the stringer, It will stay fair. Brent--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "mickeyolaf" wrote: > > I received a notice from Yanmar this year that I am to change the antifreeze every year > even if it is long life Dexcool. Maybe Yanmar and John Deere have the the same problem. > Yanmar called it "cavitation". > I heard Ford's Powerstroke also has the same issues, pitting of the cylinder walls. I have > had quite a few recalls on my Duramax diesel which is aluminum but nothing re cavitation. > I changed the Dexcool at 2 years even though the manual said 5 just to be on the safe > side. Maybe the John Deeres just need the antifreeze changed out every season. > > My hull has quite a few pulled in spots from welding and I am going to fill them with > epoxy fairing compound because the unfairness would bug me every time I looked at the > hull. When the well written about boat "Wanderer" was built of steel in Holland it had filler. > Eric Hiscox complained about it to the bulder. > > > > > > > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "brentswain38" wrote: > > > > The beauty of origami boats is that they don't need any fairing or > > filler if done well. > > A friend put a john deer diesel in thinking he was getting a simple > > farm diesel. Nothing could be further from the truth. Because his > > antifreeze was not perfect the liners looked like swiss cheese > > after three years. The injectors and return lines were extremelty > > inaccessible and had an incredible number of leaky connectors on > > them. He wouldn't recommend a John Deer engine to anyone. > > Brent > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "mickeyolaf" > > wrote: > > > > > > If anyone would like to see a really beautifully finished steel > > yacht > > > go to WWW.solanderyachts.com. > > > I was out on her on Sunday afternnoon for a cruise in Burrard > > Inlet. I > > > have never seen a fairer hull built in steel. Quiet John Deere > > diesel. > > > Absolute class finishings. Walk around engine room. 6'8" headroom. > > > She was faired using premixed epoxy fairing compound and > > longboarded > > > with 8 foot longboards made from foam. Different coloured epoxy > > was > > > used to show highs and lows as the sanding progressed. The final > > > fairing was pencil marks sanded away evenly. > > > The interior is birds eye maple. I first thought the boat was > > > fiberglass and that the mold must have been beyond perfect. She's > > > framed steel with an aluminum house with final finish Awlgrip > > paint. > > > I asked how long it took to fair her hull and the answer > > was "months". > > > My brother and I were planning to fair out my Swain 36 over a > > couple > > > of weeks including painting. Maybe not. > > > The Solander Yacht(not the Swain 36)is for sale for $1,950,000.00 > > US. > > > > > > | 10301|10301|2006-01-29 14:03:38|mkriley@fuse.net|Re: Digest Number 1447 fairing steel|as a long time yacht refinisher I would go to great legnths to avoid filler om metal as it is the source of 90% of the corrosion problems, it is impossible to keep mosture out and it will cause problems. even if it is perfect one slight bump and you can break the mosture barrier and there you go. all the big feadships and such are stripped back to metal every 5 or so years and refaired to keep them looking good. I would put a semigloss 2 part poly paint on with foam roller and keep working it till it gets tacky so it is stippled! I would even consider useing cabosil in the final topcoal to make it abrasion resistant. A number of italian yards are doing this on the new go fast megayachts. mike| 10302|10302|2006-01-29 15:14:20|SHANE ROTHWELL|Cavitation in Donk's|Micky, Although it's more common in the new ford power stroke engines, cavitation is not new in the ford engines. I've got an old ford with 6.9 diesel (built by international, call it "the Fornbinder") and have met a couple of mechanics who have told me that they are well known for cavitation causing pin holes (similar to crevise corrosion in stainless steel used in underwater, salt, applications where they are starved for oxegen, like "P" brackets & stern glands that haven't been used for extended periods) in the cylinder liners. I was also told that you should change your antifreeze every year regardless of PH (which is the usual indicator that it's no good = goes acidic) and also, absolutely, to put in the anticavitation stuff from ford every time you change the antifreeze. you can get this stuff from Diesel Auto Services in Maple Ridge & it's about $10-12 a bottle. found this out the hard way when my heater core went for the 2nd time in 18 months. no problems since but it's only been about 2 years since the last one went... Also, if you are running a mercedes, use the origonal mercedes antifreeze. a bit more expensive but vastly superior. this according to mechanics who like the product but dispise the company - for good reason. Cheers, Shane __________________________________________________________ Find your next car at http://autos.yahoo.ca| 10303|10301|2006-01-29 19:54:09|brentswain38|Re: Digest Number 1447 fairing steel|Having to pamper a hull to avoid breaking the filler defeats the purpose of having a steel hull in the first place. Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, wrote: > > as a long time yacht refinisher I would go to great legnths to avoid filler om metal as it is the source of 90% of the corrosion problems, it is impossible to keep mosture out and it will cause problems. even if it is perfect one slight bump and you can break the mosture barrier and there you go. all the big feadships and such are stripped back to metal every 5 or so years and refaired to keep them looking good. > I would put a semigloss 2 part poly paint on with foam roller and keep working it till it gets tacky so it is stippled! I would even consider useing cabosil in the final topcoal to make it abrasion resistant. > A number of italian yards are doing this on the new go fast megayachts. > mike > | 10304|10301|2006-01-30 09:06:09|khooper_fboats|Re: Digest Number 1447 fairing steel|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, wrote: > I would put a semigloss 2 part poly paint on with foam roller and keep working it till it gets tacky so it is stippled! Can you elaborate pls, why do this? Does it improve adhesion? You'd rather use a polyester-based paint than epoxy paint? Thx, --Ken| 10305|10302|2006-01-30 09:58:06|edward_stoneuk|Re: Cavitation in Donk's|Micky, Shane, I was interested in your discussion on cavitation in diesel engines damaging cylinder liners. My previous experience in cavitation was in a process where a pump moved hot water that was near boiling temperature. The suction of the pump reduced the pressure of the water causing the water to boil and the pump to knock. We overcame it by changing the inlet pipework to reduce the inlet pressure drop. I thought that perhaps the engine's cooling system was causing a similar pressure drop and that it was something I should be aware of on our boat; so I Googled it and came up with this interesting site. http://www.expertdiesel.com/cavitation.htm It is, as you say, caused by vibrations of the cylinder causing localised low pressure areas. I guess that is why engine cooling systems operate at pressure to try and avoid cavitation. Like a pressure cooker increases the boiling point of the water to enable it to cook at higher temperatures. Regards, Ted| 10306|10306|2006-01-30 16:42:41|SHANE ROTHWELL|Cavitation in donks|Looks like $10 of the right goop every year along with a good flush & new antifreeze is the way to go. cheap insurance eh. Anyone know what the right snot is for Izuzu? __________________________________________________________ Find your next car at http://autos.yahoo.ca| 10307|10307|2006-01-30 16:52:03|mkriley@fuse.net|Re: Digest Number 1448 paint system|i recommended 2 part polyester paints like awlgrip or imron as they have the best hardness and uv resistance and are applied over epoxy primers for best adhesion. You can use epoxy paints but they degrade and chalk fast in the sun,sometimes that can be good like for repainting nonskid. I have had one boat the had a new superstructure built that had awlgrip epoxy primer on it for about 10 years and it held up fine but was getting thin , one other thing epoxys even topcoats are very chemicaly active compares to polyesters so fenders and plastic wtater jugs and swimfins will interact with it and cause blistering and discoloration in the paints. mike| 10309|10309|2006-01-30 18:01:45|Alex Christie|Re: Looking for Tony from Vanc. Island|I think Tony's last name is Lyon or Lyons, check phone number online at www.mytelus.com under Phone Book to find it. Alex On 30-Jan-06, at 2:57 PM, kingsknight4life wrote: > Hi. > If Brent, Evan, Gary or anyone else out there has a ph. number for > Tony. The guy who does boat ineriors. I'd appreciate it if you could > e- > mail it to me or call me 250-715-8161 > Thanks Rowland > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > SPONSORED LINKS > British columbia canada > Vancouver island > Yacht > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > ▪  Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web. >   > ▪  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >  origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com >   > ▪  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > Service. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 10310|10302|2006-01-30 18:20:08|Denis Buggy|Re: Cavitation in Donk's|dear all many problems of cavatation and pitting were caused by a lousy design of engines and poor sand casting of blocks prior to finishing as we only experienced it in cheaper engines many of which had no liners and merely had the block bored , some of these would hold a bubble of air in a pocket and heat became localised and the block became porus many of us would drill and tap the side of the block as high as we could go and put a tap from a rad or any decent metal tap will do in order to bleed or vent the block , some people would park on a stone or anything to get the air bubble near the vent . study your plumbing and look at the water flow on a old head off your type of engine it will tell you that many a fancy engineer knows sweet f all about his job and any 1st year mechanic would know more . to repair bore out and fit dry sleeves and hope it does not get hot , do not use any sealer between liner and block as you need to dissapate heat to the water. denis ----- Original Message ----- From: edward_stoneuk To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, January 30, 2006 2:56 PM Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Cavitation in Donk's Micky, Shane, I was interested in your discussion on cavitation in diesel engines damaging cylinder liners. My previous experience in cavitation was in a process where a pump moved hot water that was near boiling temperature. The suction of the pump reduced the pressure of the water causing the water to boil and the pump to knock. We overcame it by changing the inlet pipework to reduce the inlet pressure drop. I thought that perhaps the engine's cooling system was causing a similar pressure drop and that it was something I should be aware of on our boat; so I Googled it and came up with this interesting site. http://www.expertdiesel.com/cavitation.htm It is, as you say, caused by vibrations of the cylinder causing localised low pressure areas. I guess that is why engine cooling systems operate at pressure to try and avoid cavitation. Like a pressure cooker increases the boiling point of the water to enable it to cook at higher temperatures. Regards, Ted To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com SPONSORED LINKS British columbia canada Vancouver island Yacht ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS a.. Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web. b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 10311|10307|2006-01-30 20:28:17|Gary H. Lucas|Re: Digest Number 1448 paint system|Awlgrip and Inron are Polyurethane paints, not Polyester. Gary H. Lucas ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, January 30, 2006 4:50 PM Subject: Re: [origamiboats] Digest Number 1448 paint system >i recommended 2 part polyester paints like awlgrip or imron as they have >the best hardness and uv resistance and are applied over epoxy primers for >best adhesion. You can use epoxy paints but they > degrade and chalk fast in the sun,sometimes that can be good like for > repainting nonskid. > I have had one boat the had a new superstructure built that had awlgrip > epoxy primer on it for about 10 years and it held up fine but was getting > thin , one other thing epoxys even topcoats are very chemicaly active > compares to polyesters so fenders and plastic wtater jugs and swimfins > will interact with it and cause blistering and discoloration in the > paints. > mike > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > | 10312|10309|2006-01-31 16:45:11|brentswain38|Re: Looking for Tony from Vanc. Island|I think Tony Lyons has a phone number in cumberland BC. Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Alex Christie wrote: > > I think Tony's last name is Lyon or Lyons, check phone number online at > www.mytelus.com under Phone Book to find it. > > Alex > > > On 30-Jan-06, at 2:57 PM, kingsknight4life wrote: > > > Hi. > > If Brent, Evan, Gary or anyone else out there has a ph. number for > > Tony. The guy who does boat ineriors. I'd appreciate it if you could > > e- > > mail it to me or call me 250-715-8161 > > Thanks Rowland > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > SPONSORED LINKS > > British columbia canada > > Vancouver island > > Yacht > > > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > > > ▪ Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web. > > > > ▪ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > ▪ Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > > Service. > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > | 10313|10254|2006-01-31 16:54:54|brentswain38|Re: books or dvds|Many of the boats the EU approves like Beneteaus, Hunters, or many group Finot boats , I wouldn't go outside very protected waters in.You could challenge an approved fibreglass boat to a demolition derby and prove the point conclusively with only minimal dammage to your paint job. With their excessive beam and flush decks many are anything but self righting.Their flimsey knee high lifelines are also an extreme danger. Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III" wrote: > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Gerd" wrote: > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III" wrote: > > > since I work with some nice guys from Poland, > > > I became a big [ really big ] fan of KAYAH , > > > such a big fan I could not resist posting a pic :-) > > > http://www.buildingyourboat.com/tiki-browse_gallery.php?galleryId=6 > > > is where you gone find that Pic , > --------- > > Old Ben, i will stop following your links as more often than not they > > take us to some unrelated stuff, and that is if we are lucky... > > ... For my part, I would prefer you > > would stop posting that rubbish here please - no offense meant. > --------- > Hi Gerd , from time to time it is better to sit back a while > and think twice before posting anything :-) > Thanks for your opinion . Following your previous demands i posted > sources on all pics and links I posted lately , so it would > be more easy for you to follow :-) > > You asked for photos to be posted outside the Group with > a direct link so all could find them , wish I did. > Ok , I will from now on only post a direct Link to the > picture and not to the album , that is easy to do :-) See > http://tinyurl.com/azylp hoping you find the > http://tinyurl.com/daojh also on the pic to find the test, > of a little twinkeeler with Europen RCD . > > Don't deny me the freedom of posting pics please :-) > You remain free to watch , what you like !!! > > I sure will not stop following your Posts , even > if I consider some real rubbish , no offence meant . > Feel free to post whatever you like , you will find some > of my reflexions , all relevant to the Topic in this Group > about your - European RCD - thread. : > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Gerd" wrote: > > > I thought this might merit a thread of it's own. > > Actually, meeting the RCD requirements is not so difficult - even > > the worst commercially produced rubbish makes it, no? ;-) > > > > The directive itself really requires only the strict minimum of what > > we would consider a seaworthy boat anyway. For example, concerning > > stability, the AVS (angle of vanishing stability) is set low enough > > so that catamarans can make it, and there is no mention of inverted > > I have no doubt that all of Brents designs, and probably 99 % of > the other designs out there on the > > market could produce a boat that would pass the requirements > > (including my own) > ------------------ > I have no doubt Brent Swain's designs can obtain EU certification. > Yago could obtain it eventualy by altering the keel and deck :-) > EU certification is not relevant outside the EU , > on the other hand it is nice to know a boat you consider > building will recover from an eventual capsize . > ------------------ > > In some respects, it would even have a negative effect on our boats > > if we would tryx to comply: for example, not only the boat but also > > the some of the equipment has to be certified, meaning a > > brent-style bullet proof self-made hatch would need to be replaced > > with a more flimsy commercial but certified product. > ------------------ > You must be joking :-) > ------------------ > > Most designers here in Europe are realistic and honest enough to > > tell amateurs not to bother. Some will say that their designs are > > RCD compliant - but careful, this does not mean anything else than > > that basic stability and flooding calculations give results that > > are within the required parameters,.. > ------------------ > Honnest designers adapt there designs according to > the more stringend EU rules , > as an example cause you must have miss't post 10260 : > ------------------ > Twin keels and twin rudders , cause I would > love to keep the draft at 2' > > Why , cause this is the easyest way to be well > within EU rules , it is as simple as that . > > I posted to more Files for you and Bert to see in > http://tinyurl.com/clz8g , in Origamiboats2 : > > Files > Ben's Stuff > Options > -JPBonTwinkeels.jpg > twinkeels article by JP Brouns Nov 18, 2005 > -NDrollover1.jpg > NavalDesigner Stability pic Nov 18, 2005 > -Présentation RAGTIME.pdf > Ragtime PDF 99 KB Jan 22, 2006 > -Schwertomane3.jpg > Original Ragtime 342 KB Jan 22, 2006 > > You can see that the Original Ragtime draft was > from 18cm to 1,5m , the speed was fenomenal , > so was the upwind performance ,see the weight :-) > > Today Ragtime is offered with 0,70m draft and > twin keels to be conform with EU regulations. > > We could consider a combination of keels and > boards , but renewed studies by most architects > in the EU , to design at the lowest cost for > the best performance with twinkeelers replacing the > integral centerboarders , show excellent performance > with new low draft keels as you can see in Tilapia : > http://www.buildingyourboat.com/tiki-browse_gallery.php?galleryId=6 > ---------------------- > > > > The real difficulty is the preparation of the file. If you see that > > even some smaller yards prefer to ask specialized agents to handle > > that for them, and for a lot of money, you will understand that for > > an amateur without the connections and experience this is probably > > a royal pain in the ass, and quite expensive on top of that. > > > ....it is still not difficult enough to get the RCD... but again, > > it is NOT REQUIRED if you build for yourself and do not sell > > within the first 5 years. > > > > If in spite of that you really want to know what's in it, go to > > http://www.rsg.be/ or > > http://www.imci.org/languages/englishlanguage/index1.html > > but don't forget to take a sixpack, something to eat and warm > > closing, because you won't be coming back anytime soon ;-) > > Gerd > > The Yago project at http://www.justmueller.com/boats/ > ----------------------------------------------------------------- > I suggest you take a sixpack , and if it is so easy as > you claim it is , to simply obtain your EU certification :-) > or shutt the fuck up about what EU designers should do or not :-) > > Sceptical Old Ben > ----------------------------------------------------------------- > From: "Gerd" Date: Mon Jan 23, 2006 11:44 pm > Subject: Re: books or dvds > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III" wrote: > > > I became a big [ really big ] fan of KAYAH , > > > such a big fan I could not resist posting a pic :-) > http://www.buildingyourboat.com/tiki-browse_gallery.php?galleryId=6 > > > is where you gone find that Pic , > > > > Old Ben, i will stop following your links as more often than not they > > take us to some unrelated stuff, and that is if we are lucky... > > For my part, I would prefer you would stop posting that rubbish here > > please - no offense meant. > -------------- > | 10314|10307|2006-01-31 16:57:15|brentswain38|Re: Digest Number 1448 paint system|When epoxy chalks it is constantly eroding away over and getting thinner over the years. It is the best protection for the steel available and gives a quick buildup, but must be covered by something ( preferably while still wet) to stop the UV dammage. Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, wrote: > > i recommended 2 part polyester paints like awlgrip or imron as they have the best hardness and uv resistance and are applied over epoxy primers for best adhesion. You can use epoxy paints but they > degrade and chalk fast in the sun,sometimes that can be good like for repainting nonskid. > I have had one boat the had a new superstructure built that had awlgrip epoxy primer on it for about 10 years and it held up fine but was getting thin , one other thing epoxys even topcoats are very chemicaly active compares to polyesters so fenders and plastic wtater jugs and swimfins will interact with it and cause blistering and discoloration in the paints. > mike > | 10315|10254|2006-01-31 19:20:54|Puck III|Re: books or dvds + Storm|I can agree with all remarks made by Brent Swain . Any boat , small or large can be confronted by an unannounced Storm , be it along the coastline or offshore . As a good read I repost some thoughts about the 1979 Fastnet posted some days ago in another Group . [all offensive and/or irrelevant text removed ] Just to show no rule or classification can guarantee you'r safety . A sensible proven design ,a good build and most important a good skipper will bring you home safely . Hoping this helps . Old Ben ---------------------------- --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "brentswain38" wrote: > > Many of the boats the EU approves like Beneteaus, Hunters, or many > group Finot boats , I wouldn't go outside very protected waters in.You > could challenge an approved fibreglass boat to a demolition derby and > prove the point conclusively with only minimal dammage to your paint job. > With their excessive beam and flush decks many are anything but self > righting.Their flimsey knee high lifelines are also an extreme danger. > Brent > ======================= --- In proa_file@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III" wrote: > Hi All,.... > --------------------- > --- X wrote: > > Total length was the most important survival factor during > > the '79Fastnet race (what a new, original argument!). > > Pozdrawiam > ---------- > Sorry to say X , the facts are that in the mid seventhies > some serious architects WARNED allready about the dangerous > design and building practices from younger architects , > regretfully those warnings where smiled away with dramatic > consequences. > > S&S NY had more than 1 boat in that race , and if I remember > well , the Frenchie Alain Cathelinau was awarded the UK > yachtman of the year Award for saving many lives with is > small S&S designed standard production She. > > I remember also a Pat Patterson designed 33'Catamaran > [ a Heavenly Twin on steroids ] > outsailed that storm without concern :-), just to remind > us all , that a multihull can be safe in a storm . > > Afther the 79 Fastnet , the rules where inforced so that > selfrighting and serious scantlings became mandatory ! > ------------------------- > Beside some obvious features like scantlings , size of > openings , recovery systems in case of being turned over , > [ yes all boats can be turned over by a big wave ] > floatability and some safety equipment , > it is the skipper that makes the boat offshore capable or not !!! > > Here is what Dudley Dix said about it in an interview to > SmallCraftAdvisor: "I come to the conclusion that there is one major > factor which contributes to the ability of the boat to deal with > extreme weather. That is the need for an experienced, levelheaded and > capable skipper, with a thorough knowledge of the abilities and > limitations of his own boat. Such a skipper will bring his vessel and > crew through almost anything. In contrast, even the most seaworthy of > boats may be at risk in moderate weather without a competent skipper." ----------------- > --- Y wrote: > > To whom this may interest, > > Retort on my message re: classification has been much on the > > emotional level rather than ..... > > Surely not all are that blinkered - there must be some > > ( hullo old Ben!) who see the difference between OC's and > > multihulls because they have a practical rather than a purely > > theoretical interest in proas, and thus have reason > > to question the over-simplification of criterion. > > The group vote apparently stands for all ....... > --------------------- > Y , just a proposal , hoping you will agree , > Lett us forget the classifications , definitions , sources > origins for a while , just for a month , that aint long. > > Reasons to consider : > > 1 : To be fair to X , cause he is gone need a bunch of > little arrows , once the " BennyProa " design is out. > 2 : I find historical origins an interesting subject > http://www.buildingyourboat.com/tiki-browse_gallery.php?galleryId=6 > is where you find the " Perahu or Prahus " pics I posted , > is the KlissIII design allready historical ??? > 3 : Am I wrong to concentrate rather on boats than on definitions. > 4 : In Molly Goodhead's bar in Tarpon Springs > an Old spirited lady told me , and I had to agree > " on the Ocean , what counts is the Motion " > I hope you saw those pretty pics from nice Great Waves in : > http://www.buildingyourboat.com/tiki-browse_gallery.php?galleryId=4 > sooner or later any boater can be confronted with a storm. > 5 : http://tinyurl.com/ajny6 is a direct Link to a sailor's Menu > I posted it , hoping to bring some real interesting ladies > to multihull forums , aint that more interesting than > Voting over definitions and classifications . > You will find Boating Groups where cooking on small > boats brought a lot of interesting practical recepies . > 6 : About Voting and reeeeeeel democracy an old African Chief > once told me : you dammed Europeans left us with your > silly voting system . People should know what they vote > for in the first place :-) He was a WISE man ! > 7 : I do not believe in reeeeeel democracy either . > The Owner and Moderators of a Group should decide !!! > Not Us the Innocent members :-) > They are the Government in this Group !!! > 8 : Behaving,Designing and building to certain rules is easy :-) > A change of rules brings work for architects :-) > I am convinced that the MiniTransat rules , designs , > result in a lot of interesting stuff for cruisers !!! > 9 : http://www.belgianboatshow.be/ is a direct Link to > the Gent Boatshow , you will see Peter Laureyssens pic > in the Intro , a nice Belgian sailor, the Series WINNER! > 10: http://www.wangka.be/ is a fine meeting place , for > those wanting to talk boats with me :-)Multi or Mono > see their website to see some boats they build. > 2 days before the show , and during the Ghent boatshow > I will be available via the Skype phone system : ben_azo :-) > Open and ready to talk with anybody , about Boats > and other matters :-) > > This mail is really to long to be good :-) > I will not repeat that exercise , be reassured . > I just wanted to bring that exhausting method to all's > attention in a funny way :-) > > Old Ben > > PS: A GOOD book for multi-fans is : > "Two girls, two catamarans" by James Wharram > Unknown Binding: 192 pages > Publisher: Abelard-Schuman (January 1, 1969) > Language: English > ISBN: 0200716239 > Note: Gift-wrapping is not available for this item. > > Liberalism and Flowerpower was IN in those days :-) > I forgot the popular moto then :-) > Somebody Old and Brave enough may remember......... ================================= > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III" wrote: > > > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Gerd" wrote: > > > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III" wrote: > > > > since I work with some nice guys from Poland, > > > > I became a big [ really big ] fan of KAYAH , > > > > such a big fan I could not resist posting a pic :-) > > > > http://www.buildingyourboat.com/tiki-browse_gallery.php? galleryId=6 > > > > is where you gone find that Pic , > > --------- > > > Old Ben, i will stop following your links as more often than not they > > > take us to some unrelated stuff, and that is if we are lucky... > > > ... For my part, I would prefer you > > > would stop posting that rubbish here please - no offense meant. > > --------- > > Hi Gerd , from time to time it is better to sit back a while > > and think twice before posting anything :-) > > Thanks for your opinion . Following your previous demands i posted > > sources on all pics and links I posted lately , so it would > > be more easy for you to follow :-) > > > > You asked for photos to be posted outside the Group with > > a direct link so all could find them , wish I did. > > Ok , I will from now on only post a direct Link to the > > picture and not to the album , that is easy to do :-) See > > http://tinyurl.com/azylp hoping you find the > > http://tinyurl.com/daojh also on the pic to find the test, > > of a little twinkeeler with Europen RCD . > > > > Don't deny me the freedom of posting pics please :-) > > You remain free to watch , what you like !!! > > > > I sure will not stop following your Posts , even > > if I consider some real rubbish , no offence meant . > > Feel free to post whatever you like , you will find some > > of my reflexions , all relevant to the Topic in this Group > > about your - European RCD - thread. : > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Gerd" wrote: > > > > > I thought this might merit a thread of it's own. > > > Actually, meeting the RCD requirements is not so difficult - even > > > the worst commercially produced rubbish makes it, no? ;-) > > > > > > The directive itself really requires only the strict minimum of what > > > we would consider a seaworthy boat anyway. For example, concerning > > > stability, the AVS (angle of vanishing stability) is set low enough > > > so that catamarans can make it, and there is no mention of inverted > > > I have no doubt that all of Brents designs, and probably 99 % of > > the other designs out there on the > > > market could produce a boat that would pass the requirements > > > (including my own) > > ------------------ > > I have no doubt Brent Swain's designs can obtain EU certification. > > Yago could obtain it eventualy by altering the keel and deck :-) > > EU certification is not relevant outside the EU , > > on the other hand it is nice to know a boat you consider > > building will recover from an eventual capsize . > > ------------------ > > > In some respects, it would even have a negative effect on our boats > > > if we would tryx to comply: for example, not only the boat but also > > > the some of the equipment has to be certified, meaning a > > > brent-style bullet proof self-made hatch would need to be replaced > > > with a more flimsy commercial but certified product. > > ------------------ > > You must be joking :-) > > ------------------ > > > Most designers here in Europe are realistic and honest enough to > > > tell amateurs not to bother. Some will say that their designs are > > > RCD compliant - but careful, this does not mean anything else than > > > that basic stability and flooding calculations give results that > > > are within the required parameters,.. > > ------------------ > > Honnest designers adapt there designs according to > > the more stringend EU rules , > > as an example cause you must have miss't post 10260 : > > ------------------ > > Twin keels and twin rudders , cause I would > > love to keep the draft at 2' > > > > Why , cause this is the easyest way to be well > > within EU rules , it is as simple as that . > > > > I posted to more Files for you and Bert to see in > > http://tinyurl.com/clz8g , in Origamiboats2 : > > > > Files > Ben's Stuff > Options > > -JPBonTwinkeels.jpg > > twinkeels article by JP Brouns Nov 18, 2005 > > -NDrollover1.jpg > > NavalDesigner Stability pic Nov 18, 2005 > > -Présentation RAGTIME.pdf > > Ragtime PDF 99 KB Jan 22, 2006 > > -Schwertomane3.jpg > > Original Ragtime 342 KB Jan 22, 2006 > > > > You can see that the Original Ragtime draft was > > from 18cm to 1,5m , the speed was fenomenal , > > so was the upwind performance ,see the weight :-) > > > > Today Ragtime is offered with 0,70m draft and > > twin keels to be conform with EU regulations. > > > > We could consider a combination of keels and > > boards , but renewed studies by most architects > > in the EU , to design at the lowest cost for > > the best performance with twinkeelers replacing the > > integral centerboarders , show excellent performance > > with new low draft keels as you can see in Tilapia : > > http://www.buildingyourboat.com/tiki-browse_gallery.php? galleryId=6 > > ---------------------- > > > > > > The real difficulty is the preparation of the file. If you see that > > > even some smaller yards prefer to ask specialized agents to handle > > > that for them, and for a lot of money, you will understand that for > > > an amateur without the connections and experience this is probably > > > a royal pain in the ass, and quite expensive on top of that. > > > > > ....it is still not difficult enough to get the RCD... but again, > > > it is NOT REQUIRED if you build for yourself and do not sell > > > within the first 5 years. > > > > > > If in spite of that you really want to know what's in it, go to > > > http://www.rsg.be/ or > > > http://www.imci.org/languages/englishlanguage/index1.html > > > but don't forget to take a sixpack, something to eat and warm > > > closing, because you won't be coming back anytime soon ;-) > > > Gerd > > > The Yago project at http://www.justmueller.com/boats/ > > ----------------------------------------------------------------- > > I suggest you take a sixpack , and if it is so easy as > > you claim it is , to simply obtain your EU certification :-) > > or shutt the fuck up about what EU designers should do or not :-) > > > > Sceptical Old Ben > > ----------------------------------------------------------------- > > From: "Gerd" Date: Mon Jan 23, 2006 11:44 pm > > Subject: Re: books or dvds > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III" wrote: > > > > I became a big [ really big ] fan of KAYAH , > > > > such a big fan I could not resist posting a pic :-) > > http://www.buildingyourboat.com/tiki-browse_gallery.php? galleryId=6 > > > > is where you gone find that Pic , > > > > > > Old Ben, i will stop following your links as more often than not they > > > take us to some unrelated stuff, and that is if we are lucky... > > > For my part, I would prefer you would stop posting that rubbish here > > > please - no offense meant. > > -------------- | 10316|10309|2006-01-31 21:16:17|kingsknight4life|Re: Looking for Tony from Vanc. Island|Thnaks everyone I have his number now. Rowland --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "brentswain38" wrote: > > I think Tony Lyons has a phone number in cumberland BC. > Brent > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Alex Christie wrote: > > > > I think Tony's last name is Lyon or Lyons, check phone number online at > > www.mytelus.com under Phone Book to find it. > > > > Alex > > > > > > On 30-Jan-06, at 2:57 PM, kingsknight4life wrote: > > > > > Hi. > > > If Brent, Evan, Gary or anyone else out there has a ph. number for > > > Tony. The guy who does boat ineriors. I'd appreciate it if you could > > > e- > > > mail it to me or call me 250-715-8161 > > > Thanks Rowland > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > > > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > SPONSORED LINKS > > > British columbia canada > > > Vancouver island > > > Yacht > > > > > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > > > > > ▪ Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web. > > > > > > ▪ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > ▪ Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > > > Service. > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > | 10317|10307|2006-01-31 21:22:23|mickeyolaf|Re: Digest Number 1448 paint system|I plan to start painting as soon as it quits raining, if it ever does. BC is setting new records for rain this year. If it doesn't quit soon Noah may have to commission Brent to design an origami ark. I have been reading everything I can find about painting and have decided that sanding, cleaning, then priming and painting in two part high build epoxy paint seems to be the best undercoating method. Then epoxy fairing compound over the sanded paint. (That way if the fairing compound ever lets go there is still paint protection under.) Then two part polyurethane primer and paint. I'm hoping if I do it right I won't be repainting again for ten years. I painted my last boat, a 27, with epoxy paint, two part white. I was scared off polyurethane by the warnings about the fumes and the need for respirators and an air supply etc. The only real application problem with epoxy is not to paint when there is humidity. With epoxy use a simple canister fume mask, don't get it on you and don't breath the dust which are all easy precautions to follow. You read the warnings with polyurethane paint and you would think after you applyed it you are going to grow a third eye. I put the epoxy put on with a roller and tipped it off. It turned out quite well with a bit of an orangepeel finish which hides imperfections. It did chalk but "Simply Z Best Car Wax" ( yes, that is the products name) brought it up shining for a lot of years. --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "brentswain38" wrote: > > > When epoxy chalks it is constantly eroding away over and getting > thinner over the years. It is the best protection for the steel > available and gives a quick buildup, but must be covered by something > ( preferably while still wet) to stop the UV dammage. > Brent > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, wrote: > > > > i recommended 2 part polyester paints like awlgrip or imron as they > have the best hardness and uv resistance and are applied over epoxy > primers for best adhesion. You can use epoxy paints but they > > degrade and chalk fast in the sun,sometimes that can be good like > for repainting nonskid. > > I have had one boat the had a new superstructure built that had > awlgrip epoxy primer on it for about 10 years and it held up fine but > was getting thin , one other thing epoxys even topcoats are very > chemicaly active compares to polyesters so fenders and plastic wtater > jugs and swimfins will interact with it and cause blistering and > discoloration in the paints. > > mike > > > | 10318|10254|2006-01-31 22:11:33|mickeyolaf|Re: books or dvds + Storm|There is no doubt that metal boats are far stronger and sounder than glass ones. Fiberglass boats absorb water. A fiberglass hull after a year in the water will weight hundreds of pounds more. They also blister, delaminate, separate from their cores, sweat, crack, craze and so on. But they are fast to build, cheaper to mass produce, and do make notable passages around the world. Some however also look like floating bleach bottles. Fiberglass boats caught on fast with boaters because they don't need varnish, don't rot or rust, and hull maintenace is generally a wash and wax. I had a fiberglass saiboat but I was never really proud to sail it. It looked like all of the other boats. I never had faith in it's strength when the seas were pounding the bow. You're also never going to feel or look like an old salt smoking your pipe on the deck of a Catalina. I would sell one if it were given to me. Another thing about glass boats is you have to every few years rebed all of the fittings or they leak. You don't have to rebed fittings that are welded on. You're right that Catalina and Hunter and Beneteau are not offshore vessels. But I quess if you have to own a boat and have limited time fiberglass takes less maintenance time. When u chip the gelcoat rust doesn't start tomorrow. There are some well built glass boats out there such as Valiant and Pacific Seacraft but they are way beyound most peoples means. I would want a boat that had a reserve strength built in so that when I screwed up in my boat handling the boat would save my ..s. Hence my metal boat. -- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III" wrote: > > > I can agree with all remarks made by Brent Swain . > > Any boat , small or large can be confronted by an unannounced > Storm , be it along the coastline or offshore . > > As a good read I repost some thoughts about the 1979 Fastnet > posted some days ago in another Group . > [all offensive and/or irrelevant text removed ] > Just to show no rule or classification can guarantee you'r safety . > > A sensible proven design ,a good build and most important > a good skipper will bring you home safely . > > Hoping this helps . > Old Ben > ---------------------------- > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "brentswain38" > wrote: > > > > Many of the boats the EU approves like Beneteaus, Hunters, or many > > group Finot boats , I wouldn't go outside very protected waters > in.You > > could challenge an approved fibreglass boat to a demolition derby > and > > prove the point conclusively with only minimal dammage to your > paint job. > > With their excessive beam and flush decks many are anything but > self > > righting.Their flimsey knee high lifelines are also an extreme > danger. > > Brent > > > ======================= > --- In proa_file@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III" wrote: > > Hi All,.... > > --------------------- > > --- X wrote: > > > Total length was the most important survival factor during > > > the '79Fastnet race (what a new, original argument!). > > > Pozdrawiam > > ---------- > > Sorry to say X , the facts are that in the mid seventhies > > some serious architects WARNED allready about the dangerous > > design and building practices from younger architects , > > regretfully those warnings where smiled away with dramatic > > consequences. > > > > S&S NY had more than 1 boat in that race , and if I remember > > well , the Frenchie Alain Cathelinau was awarded the UK > > yachtman of the year Award for saving many lives with is > > small S&S designed standard production She. > > > > I remember also a Pat Patterson designed 33'Catamaran > > [ a Heavenly Twin on steroids ] > > outsailed that storm without concern :-), just to remind > > us all , that a multihull can be safe in a storm . > > > > Afther the 79 Fastnet , the rules where inforced so that > > selfrighting and serious scantlings became mandatory ! > > ------------------------- > > Beside some obvious features like scantlings , size of > > openings , recovery systems in case of being turned over , > > [ yes all boats can be turned over by a big wave ] > > floatability and some safety equipment , > > it is the skipper that makes the boat offshore capable or not !!! > > > > Here is what Dudley Dix said about it in an interview to > > SmallCraftAdvisor: "I come to the conclusion that there is one > major > > factor which contributes to the ability of the boat to deal with > > extreme weather. That is the need for an experienced, levelheaded > and > > capable skipper, with a thorough knowledge of the abilities and > > limitations of his own boat. Such a skipper will bring his vessel > and > > crew through almost anything. In contrast, even the most seaworthy > of > > boats may be at risk in moderate weather without a competent > skipper." > ----------------- > > --- Y wrote: > > > To whom this may interest, > > > Retort on my message re: classification has been much on the > > > emotional level rather than ..... > > > > Surely not all are that blinkered - there must be some > > > ( hullo old Ben!) who see the difference between OC's and > > > multihulls because they have a practical rather than a purely > > > theoretical interest in proas, and thus have reason > > > to question the over-simplification of criterion. > > > The group vote apparently stands for all ....... > > --------------------- > > Y , just a proposal , hoping you will agree , > > Lett us forget the classifications , definitions , sources > > origins for a while , just for a month , that aint long. > > > > Reasons to consider : > > > > 1 : To be fair to X , cause he is gone need a bunch of > > little arrows , once the " BennyProa " design is out. > > 2 : I find historical origins an interesting subject > > http://www.buildingyourboat.com/tiki-browse_gallery.php?galleryId=6 > > is where you find the " Perahu or Prahus " pics I posted , > > is the KlissIII design allready historical ??? > > 3 : Am I wrong to concentrate rather on boats than on definitions. > > 4 : In Molly Goodhead's bar in Tarpon Springs > > an Old spirited lady told me , and I had to agree > > " on the Ocean , what counts is the Motion " > > I hope you saw those pretty pics from nice Great Waves in : > > http://www.buildingyourboat.com/tiki-browse_gallery.php?galleryId=4 > > sooner or later any boater can be confronted with a storm. > > 5 : http://tinyurl.com/ajny6 is a direct Link to a sailor's Menu > > I posted it , hoping to bring some real interesting ladies > > to multihull forums , aint that more interesting than > > Voting over definitions and classifications . > > You will find Boating Groups where cooking on small > > boats brought a lot of interesting practical recepies . > > 6 : About Voting and reeeeeeel democracy an old African Chief > > once told me : you dammed Europeans left us with your > > silly voting system . People should know what they vote > > for in the first place :-) He was a WISE man ! > > 7 : I do not believe in reeeeeel democracy either . > > The Owner and Moderators of a Group should decide !!! > > Not Us the Innocent members :-) > > They are the Government in this Group !!! > > 8 : Behaving,Designing and building to certain rules is easy :-) > > A change of rules brings work for architects :-) > > I am convinced that the MiniTransat rules , designs , > > result in a lot of interesting stuff for cruisers !!! > > 9 : http://www.belgianboatshow.be/ is a direct Link to > > the Gent Boatshow , you will see Peter Laureyssens pic > > in the Intro , a nice Belgian sailor, the Series WINNER! > > 10: http://www.wangka.be/ is a fine meeting place , for > > those wanting to talk boats with me :-)Multi or Mono > > see their website to see some boats they build. > > 2 days before the show , and during the Ghent boatshow > > I will be available via the Skype phone system : ben_azo :-) > > Open and ready to talk with anybody , about Boats > > and other matters :-) > > > > This mail is really to long to be good :-) > > I will not repeat that exercise , be reassured . > > I just wanted to bring that exhausting method to all's > > attention in a funny way :-) > > > > Old Ben > > > > PS: A GOOD book for multi-fans is : > > "Two girls, two catamarans" by James Wharram > > Unknown Binding: 192 pages > > Publisher: Abelard-Schuman (January 1, 1969) > > Language: English > > ISBN: 0200716239 > > Note: Gift-wrapping is not available for this item. > > > > Liberalism and Flowerpower was IN in those days :-) > > I forgot the popular moto then :-) > > Somebody Old and Brave enough may remember......... > ================================= > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III" > wrote: > > > > > > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Gerd" wrote: > > > > > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III" > wrote: > > > > > since I work with some nice guys from Poland, > > > > > I became a big [ really big ] fan of KAYAH , > > > > > such a big fan I could not resist posting a pic :-) > > > > > http://www.buildingyourboat.com/tiki-browse_gallery.php? > galleryId=6 > > > > > is where you gone find that Pic , > > > --------- > > > > Old Ben, i will stop following your links as more often than > not they > > > > take us to some unrelated stuff, and that is if we are lucky... > > > > ... For my part, I would prefer you > > > > would stop posting that rubbish here please - no offense meant. > > > --------- > > > Hi Gerd , from time to time it is better to sit back a while > > > and think twice before posting anything :-) > > > Thanks for your opinion . Following your previous demands i posted > > > sources on all pics and links I posted lately , so it would > > > be more easy for you to follow :-) > > > > > > You asked for photos to be posted outside the Group with > > > a direct link so all could find them , wish I did. > > > Ok , I will from now on only post a direct Link to the > > > picture and not to the album , that is easy to do :-) See > > > http://tinyurl.com/azylp hoping you find the > > > http://tinyurl.com/daojh also on the pic to find the test, > > > of a little twinkeeler with Europen RCD . > > > > > > Don't deny me the freedom of posting pics please :-) > > > You remain free to watch , what you like !!! > > > > > > I sure will not stop following your Posts , even > > > if I consider some real rubbish , no offence meant . > > > Feel free to post whatever you like , you will find some > > > of my reflexions , all relevant to the Topic in this Group > > > about your - European RCD - thread. : > > > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Gerd" wrote: > > > > > > > I thought this might merit a thread of it's own. > > > > Actually, meeting the RCD requirements is not so difficult - > even > > > > the worst commercially produced rubbish makes it, no? ;-) > > > > > > > > The directive itself really requires only the strict minimum of > what > > > > we would consider a seaworthy boat anyway. For example, > concerning > > > > stability, the AVS (angle of vanishing stability) is set low > enough > > > > so that catamarans can make it, and there is no mention of > inverted > > > > I have no doubt that all of Brents designs, and probably 99 % > of > > > the other designs out there on the > > > > market could produce a boat that would pass the requirements > > > > (including my own) > > > ------------------ > > > I have no doubt Brent Swain's designs can obtain EU certification. > > > Yago could obtain it eventualy by altering the keel and deck :-) > > > EU certification is not relevant outside the EU , > > > on the other hand it is nice to know a boat you consider > > > building will recover from an eventual capsize . > > > ------------------ > > > > In some respects, it would even have a negative effect on our > boats > > > > if we would tryx to comply: for example, not only the boat but > also > > > > the some of the equipment has to be certified, meaning a > > > > brent-style bullet proof self-made hatch would need to be > replaced > > > > with a more flimsy commercial but certified product. > > > ------------------ > > > You must be joking :-) > > > ------------------ > > > > Most designers here in Europe are realistic and honest enough > to > > > > tell amateurs not to bother. Some will say that their designs > are > > > > RCD compliant - but careful, this does not mean anything else > than > > > > that basic stability and flooding calculations give results > that > > > > are within the required parameters,.. > > > ------------------ > > > Honnest designers adapt there designs according to > > > the more stringend EU rules , > > > as an example cause you must have miss't post 10260 : > > > ------------------ > > > Twin keels and twin rudders , cause I would > > > love to keep the draft at 2' > > > > > > Why , cause this is the easyest way to be well > > > within EU rules , it is as simple as that . > > > > > > I posted to more Files for you and Bert to see in > > > http://tinyurl.com/clz8g , in Origamiboats2 : > > > > > > Files > Ben's Stuff > Options > > > -JPBonTwinkeels.jpg > > > twinkeels article by JP Brouns Nov 18, 2005 > > > -NDrollover1.jpg > > > NavalDesigner Stability pic Nov 18, 2005 > > > -Présentation RAGTIME.pdf > > > Ragtime PDF 99 KB Jan 22, 2006 > > > -Schwertomane3.jpg > > > Original Ragtime 342 KB Jan 22, 2006 > > > > > > You can see that the Original Ragtime draft was > > > from 18cm to 1,5m , the speed was fenomenal , > > > so was the upwind performance ,see the weight :-) > > > > > > Today Ragtime is offered with 0,70m draft and > > > twin keels to be conform with EU regulations. > > > > > > We could consider a combination of keels and > > > boards , but renewed studies by most architects > > > in the EU , to design at the lowest cost for > > > the best performance with twinkeelers replacing the > > > integral centerboarders , show excellent performance > > > with new low draft keels as you can see in Tilapia : > > > http://www.buildingyourboat.com/tiki-browse_gallery.php? > galleryId=6 > > > ---------------------- > > > > > > > > The real difficulty is the preparation of the file. If you see > that > > > > even some smaller yards prefer to ask specialized agents to > handle > > > > that for them, and for a lot of money, you will understand that > for > > > > an amateur without the connections and experience this is > probably > > > > a royal pain in the ass, and quite expensive on top of that. > > > > > > > ....it is still not difficult enough to get the RCD... but > again, > > > > it is NOT REQUIRED if you build for yourself and do not sell > > > > within the first 5 years. > > > > > > > > If in spite of that you really want to know what's in it, go to > > > > http://www.rsg.be/ or > > > > http://www.imci.org/languages/englishlanguage/index1.html > > > > but don't forget to take a sixpack, something to eat and warm > > > > closing, because you won't be coming back anytime soon ;-) > > > > Gerd > > > > The Yago project at http://www.justmueller.com/boats/ > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------- > > > I suggest you take a sixpack , and if it is so easy as > > > you claim it is , to simply obtain your EU certification :-) > > > or shutt the fuck up about what EU designers should do or not :-) > > > > > > Sceptical Old Ben > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------- > > > From: "Gerd" Date: Mon Jan 23, 2006 11:44 pm > > > Subject: Re: books or dvds > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III" > wrote: > > > > > I became a big [ really big ] fan of KAYAH , > > > > > such a big fan I could not resist posting a pic :-) > > > http://www.buildingyourboat.com/tiki-browse_gallery.php? > galleryId=6 > > > > > is where you gone find that Pic , > > > > > > > > Old Ben, i will stop following your links as more often than > not they > > > > take us to some unrelated stuff, and that is if we are lucky... > > > > For my part, I would prefer you would stop posting that rubbish > here > > > > please - no offense meant. > > > -------------- > | 10319|10319|2006-01-31 22:14:55|jericoera|Who needs a motor?|I have been reading many articles on people who live aboard without motors and I am wondering if anyone can enlighten that subject. Pros and cons would be nice. I just assumed everyone would want a motor not only for convenience but safety. I am just curious if there is still a crowd around who subscribe to the no motor philosophy. I know a couple on Texada Island that damn near got themselves killed in a bad storm heading for a lee shore and they would have been happy to have a motor. Incidently, it finished any cruising dreams for them. They promptly sold the boat when they landed safely back home. A motor or not, that is the question. Carl McIntosh| 10320|10319|2006-02-01 00:27:33|Bruce Hallman|Re: Who needs a motor?|On 1/31/06, jericoera wrote: > I have been reading many articles on people who live aboard without > motors and I am wondering if anyone can enlighten that subject. If you haven't yet, you might like to read the book: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0961039655/104-3861507-8184725 _Voyaging on a Small Income_ by Annie Hill. She has a very thoughful chapter that answers your question in detail In short, motors bring complexity, which is often trouble. If your boat is your home, what is your hurry? Trading time for cost and simplicity.| 10321|10319|2006-02-01 01:26:41|Puck III|Re: Who needs a motor?|Hi Carl , one does not need a motor for living onboard , for cruising a working engine is always handy ... --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "jericoera" wrote: > > I have been reading many articles on people who live aboard without > motors and I am wondering if anyone can enlighten that subject. -------- You can start your voyage with a fine working engine The engine will probably fail , the day you need it most :-) You can have a spare engine , I cary a 9.9hp old Merc for the Dinghy , if you keep it ready on an easy to lower bracket on the stern , that may come in handy , if the main Diesel fails . The one-handle extentension I use for the Dinghy , comes in handy to control the outboard from the cockpit. BUT again , you could fall out of gas very soon , I suppose nobody caries much spare for the dinghy's engine. > Pros and cons would be nice. I just assumed everyone would want a > motor not only for convenience but safety. ------------- I remember using the reverse to lower boatspeed on a multi when sailing in a storm , that sure came in handy , cause I am convinced from time to time I outrunned some steep waves wich I could not have done , if I would have carried a drogue . So a good diesel can be considerd a real safety factor onboard. " Serious Storms " are rear if you trye to avoid them . ------------- > I am just curious if there is still a crowd around who subscribe to > the no motor philosophy. ------------- If you come in a situation where both engines fail , the no motor philosophy is forced upon you ! You better be on a good sailboat that can point high enough to sail you out of trouble . ------------- > I know a couple on Texada Island that damn near got themselves killed > in a bad storm heading for a lee shore and they would have been > happy to have a motor. ------------- I sure would not interupt a cruise if the engine fails. You can bunker good fuel on arrival , or find some spare parts to do the repair. ------------- > Incidently, it finished any cruising dreams for them. > They promptly sold the boat when they landed safely back home. > > A motor or not, that is the question. > > Carl McIntosh ------------- If the engines would refuse to start , while on anker in a tranquil Tropical bay , I could row the boat out with the dinghy . I could use a chinese skull to skull the boat out also. Why carry such a long oar ? Most Dutch do , to push and or hook the boat when needed . That comes in handy , when sailing in shallow water . The long stick to push was on every boat , before engines even existed . KISS is a sound principle on every boat :-) Be prepared said Baden Powel , I was a Boy-Scout a rather long while ago . A motor or not ,that is the question . Who said : to be or not to be ? Hhhmmmm ?? To sail or to stay at home ? Insurances for good boats are cheap . It's probably safer on the water than driving your car or staying at home :-) Aint a cruiser a bit like a home that goes along where and mostly when you want it ?? One sure can do without an engine and be happy . When I look at tourist grilling themselves on a beach, I always think : you all dont know what you are missing ! Cruising and sailing is for the priviledged that know. Knowing it , is all you realy need . You sure do not need a big bank account to be along the priviledged , as long as you know :-) I wanne end this long post with another question! An engine sure can come in handy . Could an active rescue dinghy come in handy ? :-) Please tell me what you all think ! Old Ben| 10322|10319|2006-02-01 01:27:38|tom|Re: Who needs a motor?|Hello Carl I always prefer not using a motor but there are a lot of times you have to like busy harbor with currents and no wind, there are other times like when the wind dies off almost completely and your getting hit by 6-7 foot waves you have a choice of setting there rocking and rolling to beat hell or fire up engine and motor sail to be comfortable. As far as staying off a lee shore in a storm most sailboats don't have a big enough engine to do that and if you should get in that situation I believe a good anchor would be the best bet I would say you should have some type of motor either outboard or inboard but if you're a good sailor and lots of time on your hands don't Tom ----- Original Message ----- From: "jericoera" To: Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2006 7:11 PM Subject: [origamiboats] Who needs a motor? >I have been reading many articles on people who live aboard without > motors and I am wondering if anyone can enlighten that subject. > > Pros and cons would be nice. I just assumed everyone would want a > motor not only for convenience but safety. > > I am just curious if there is still a crowd around who subscribe to > the no motor philosophy. > > I know a couple on Texada Island that damn near got themselves killed > in a bad storm heading for a lee shore and they would have been happy > to have a motor. Incidently, it finished any cruising dreams for them. > They promptly sold the boat when they landed safely back home. > > A motor or not, that is the question. > > Carl McIntosh > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > | 10323|10307|2006-02-01 01:33:30|Jon & Wanda(Tink)|Re: Digest Number 1448 paint system|Has anyone tried Overrust on a boat? http://www.overrust.com/ Jon| 10324|10319|2006-02-01 08:28:28|hollowayjoshua|Re: Who needs a motor?|Aloha all, Heidi and I have been home for the holidays visiting family and we've been enjoying your group. We were very interested when Deiter's (SV AmazonII) name came up from Amazon. We met and had meals with him quite a few times in Western Samoa. The newest topic that has come up gives us an opportunity to contribute... Heidi and I have been cruising for 2 years now with no engine in our Pacific Seacraft 25. It was not so much a matter of complexity or cost for us. There were many reasons, our biggest being time. We were ready to cruise!! I had many projects that had to be done before we COULD take off and working on an engine was not one of them. I would NOT recommend going enginless for a number of reasons. Flopping around out in the doldrums stinks, but we've got time and there is no danger in that. However, if we get close to land and have to tack through a channel, things get very tense. If we miss a tack and the channel is narrow, we're almost certain to run aground. The stronger the winds the more likely that is for us. So far it has only happened once, but we were 700 miles from the nearest civilization. Our boat, Tiny Bubbles is small enough that I was able to jump out and push it off the rocks, while Heidi tacked it over -- fortunatelly, we were inside the breakers... Another thing to keep in mind is that we chose to be an enginless boat. Other boats did not choose for us to be enginless, so we must be very carefull now that we are in more crowded anchorages in Fiji. It's one thing to run aground -- our loss --, but something entirely different to damage someone elses boat. So far we have been very carefull and have not attempted to tack in heavy winds near other boats. This often means a less than ideal anchorage, since we take what we can get -- but hey, we've never hit another boat! Finally, one that is not so much a problem for us, but would be a problem for many, is the issue of freedom to have a schedule that is not completely dictated by the winds. Heidi and I have been known to wait for the right wind to leave an anchorage, and rush around checking out of a country, only to have the winds change on us. One time I used 2 long oars to paddle us about 1/4 mile into a light breeze to get us out of Honokohau Harbor, Big Island. With an engine you will be able to go many places where we can not, but just remember that if the engine dies you're in the same boat we are... so don't get yourself in too deep a dooky... Aloha, Josh and Heidi (sv Tiny Bubbles) adventuresoftinybubbles.com| 10325|10319|2006-02-01 08:40:20|hollowayjoshua|Re: Who needs a motor?|Aloha again. Sorry about that. It was brought to my attention that the tb link didn't come up... This should help: www.adventuresoftinybubbles.com| 10326|10254|2006-02-01 11:44:33|Michael Casling|Re: books or dvds + Storm|I have a Tanzer 22. It does not blister, delaminate, separate from its core, crack or craze. It does not absorb water, and its does sweat, but probably less than a steel boat of the same size. There are over 2500 of these boats sailing. Many like mine are 30 years old. This boat is capable of going to Hawaii. So far I fail to see the problem with my boat. Did I mention I bought it used and cheap. I will be adding vents to fix the condensation problem. I have never been a fan of deriding the other products to promote my own. Promote the advantages of steel as you see them, but please recognize that there are many fine plastic boats sailing, and many rusty steel boats that are taking up valuable space. If a steel boat can be painted to prevent rust, then a plastic boat can be painted to prevent the gelcoat absorbing water. Industrial Formulators in Burnaby BC provided this information in the 70s for those that would listen. Michael ----- Original Message ----- From: mickeyolaf To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2006 7:09 PM Subject: [origamiboats] Re: books or dvds + Storm There is no doubt that metal boats are far stronger and sounder than glass ones. Fiberglass boats absorb water. A fiberglass hull after a year in the water will weight hundreds of pounds more. They also blister, delaminate, separate from their cores, sweat, crack, craze and so on. But they are fast to build, cheaper to mass produce, and do make notable passages around the world. Some however also look like floating bleach bottles. Fiberglass boats caught on fast with boaters because they don't need varnish, don't rot or rust, and hull maintenace is generally a wash and wax. I had a fiberglass saiboat but I was never really proud to sail it. It looked like all of the other boats. I never had faith in it's strength when the seas were pounding the bow. You're also never going to feel or look like an old salt smoking your pipe on the deck of a Catalina. I would sell one if it were given to me. Another thing about glass boats is you have to every few years rebed all of the fittings or they leak. You don't have to rebed fittings that are welded on. You're right that Catalina and Hunter and Beneteau are not offshore vessels. But I quess if you have to own a boat and have limited time fiberglass takes less maintenance time. When u chip the gelcoat rust doesn't start tomorrow. There are some well built glass boats out there such as Valiant and Pacific Seacraft but they are way beyound most peoples means. I would want a boat that had a reserve strength built in so that when I screwed up in my boat handling the boat would save my ..s. Hence my metal boat. -- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III" wrote: > > > I can agree with all remarks made by Brent Swain . > > Any boat , small or large can be confronted by an unannounced > Storm , be it along the coastline or offshore . > > As a good read I repost some thoughts about the 1979 Fastnet > posted some days ago in another Group . > [all offensive and/or irrelevant text removed ] > Just to show no rule or classification can guarantee you'r safety . > > A sensible proven design ,a good build and most important > a good skipper will bring you home safely . > > Hoping this helps . > Old Ben > ---------------------------- > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "brentswain38" > wrote: > > > > Many of the boats the EU approves like Beneteaus, Hunters, or many > > group Finot boats , I wouldn't go outside very protected waters > in.You > > could challenge an approved fibreglass boat to a demolition derby > and > > prove the point conclusively with only minimal dammage to your > paint job. > > With their excessive beam and flush decks many are anything but > self > > righting.Their flimsey knee high lifelines are also an extreme > danger. > > Brent > > > ======================= > --- In proa_file@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III" wrote: > > Hi All,.... > > --------------------- > > --- X wrote: > > > Total length was the most important survival factor during > > > the '79Fastnet race (what a new, original argument!). > > > Pozdrawiam > > ---------- > > Sorry to say X , the facts are that in the mid seventhies > > some serious architects WARNED allready about the dangerous > > design and building practices from younger architects , > > regretfully those warnings where smiled away with dramatic > > consequences. > > > > S&S NY had more than 1 boat in that race , and if I remember > > well , the Frenchie Alain Cathelinau was awarded the UK > > yachtman of the year Award for saving many lives with is > > small S&S designed standard production She. > > > > I remember also a Pat Patterson designed 33'Catamaran > > [ a Heavenly Twin on steroids ] > > outsailed that storm without concern :-), just to remind > > us all , that a multihull can be safe in a storm . > > > > Afther the 79 Fastnet , the rules where inforced so that > > selfrighting and serious scantlings became mandatory ! > > ------------------------- > > Beside some obvious features like scantlings , size of > > openings , recovery systems in case of being turned over , > > [ yes all boats can be turned over by a big wave ] > > floatability and some safety equipment , > > it is the skipper that makes the boat offshore capable or not !!! > > > > Here is what Dudley Dix said about it in an interview to > > SmallCraftAdvisor: "I come to the conclusion that there is one > major > > factor which contributes to the ability of the boat to deal with > > extreme weather. That is the need for an experienced, levelheaded > and > > capable skipper, with a thorough knowledge of the abilities and > > limitations of his own boat. Such a skipper will bring his vessel > and > > crew through almost anything. In contrast, even the most seaworthy > of > > boats may be at risk in moderate weather without a competent > skipper." > ----------------- > > --- Y wrote: > > > To whom this may interest, > > > Retort on my message re: classification has been much on the > > > emotional level rather than ..... > > > > Surely not all are that blinkered - there must be some > > > ( hullo old Ben!) who see the difference between OC's and > > > multihulls because they have a practical rather than a purely > > > theoretical interest in proas, and thus have reason > > > to question the over-simplification of criterion. > > > The group vote apparently stands for all ....... > > --------------------- > > Y , just a proposal , hoping you will agree , > > Lett us forget the classifications , definitions , sources > > origins for a while , just for a month , that aint long. > > > > Reasons to consider : > > > > 1 : To be fair to X , cause he is gone need a bunch of > > little arrows , once the " BennyProa " design is out. > > 2 : I find historical origins an interesting subject > > http://www.buildingyourboat.com/tiki-browse_gallery.php?galleryId=6 > > is where you find the " Perahu or Prahus " pics I posted , > > is the KlissIII design allready historical ??? > > 3 : Am I wrong to concentrate rather on boats than on definitions. > > 4 : In Molly Goodhead's bar in Tarpon Springs > > an Old spirited lady told me , and I had to agree > > " on the Ocean , what counts is the Motion " > > I hope you saw those pretty pics from nice Great Waves in : > > http://www.buildingyourboat.com/tiki-browse_gallery.php?galleryId=4 > > sooner or later any boater can be confronted with a storm. > > 5 : http://tinyurl.com/ajny6 is a direct Link to a sailor's Menu > > I posted it , hoping to bring some real interesting ladies > > to multihull forums , aint that more interesting than > > Voting over definitions and classifications . > > You will find Boating Groups where cooking on small > > boats brought a lot of interesting practical recepies . > > 6 : About Voting and reeeeeeel democracy an old African Chief > > once told me : you dammed Europeans left us with your > > silly voting system . People should know what they vote > > for in the first place :-) He was a WISE man ! > > 7 : I do not believe in reeeeeel democracy either . > > The Owner and Moderators of a Group should decide !!! > > Not Us the Innocent members :-) > > They are the Government in this Group !!! > > 8 : Behaving,Designing and building to certain rules is easy :-) > > A change of rules brings work for architects :-) > > I am convinced that the MiniTransat rules , designs , > > result in a lot of interesting stuff for cruisers !!! > > 9 : http://www.belgianboatshow.be/ is a direct Link to > > the Gent Boatshow , you will see Peter Laureyssens pic > > in the Intro , a nice Belgian sailor, the Series WINNER! > > 10: http://www.wangka.be/ is a fine meeting place , for > > those wanting to talk boats with me :-)Multi or Mono > > see their website to see some boats they build. > > 2 days before the show , and during the Ghent boatshow > > I will be available via the Skype phone system : ben_azo :-) > > Open and ready to talk with anybody , about Boats > > and other matters :-) > > > > This mail is really to long to be good :-) > > I will not repeat that exercise , be reassured . > > I just wanted to bring that exhausting method to all's > > attention in a funny way :-) > > > > Old Ben > > > > PS: A GOOD book for multi-fans is : > > "Two girls, two catamarans" by James Wharram > > Unknown Binding: 192 pages > > Publisher: Abelard-Schuman (January 1, 1969) > > Language: English > > ISBN: 0200716239 > > Note: Gift-wrapping is not available for this item. > > > > Liberalism and Flowerpower was IN in those days :-) > > I forgot the popular moto then :-) > > Somebody Old and Brave enough may remember......... > ================================= > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III" > wrote: > > > > > > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Gerd" wrote: > > > > > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III" > wrote: > > > > > since I work with some nice guys from Poland, > > > > > I became a big [ really big ] fan of KAYAH , > > > > > such a big fan I could not resist posting a pic :-) > > > > > http://www.buildingyourboat.com/tiki-browse_gallery.php? > galleryId=6 > > > > > is where you gone find that Pic , > > > --------- > > > > Old Ben, i will stop following your links as more often than > not they > > > > take us to some unrelated stuff, and that is if we are lucky... > > > > ... For my part, I would prefer you > > > > would stop posting that rubbish here please - no offense meant. > > > --------- > > > Hi Gerd , from time to time it is better to sit back a while > > > and think twice before posting anything :-) > > > Thanks for your opinion . Following your previous demands i posted > > > sources on all pics and links I posted lately , so it would > > > be more easy for you to follow :-) > > > > > > You asked for photos to be posted outside the Group with > > > a direct link so all could find them , wish I did. > > > Ok , I will from now on only post a direct Link to the > > > picture and not to the album , that is easy to do :-) See > > > http://tinyurl.com/azylp hoping you find the > > > http://tinyurl.com/daojh also on the pic to find the test, > > > of a little twinkeeler with Europen RCD . > > > > > > Don't deny me the freedom of posting pics please :-) > > > You remain free to watch , what you like !!! > > > > > > I sure will not stop following your Posts , even > > > if I consider some real rubbish , no offence meant . > > > Feel free to post whatever you like , you will find some > > > of my reflexions , all relevant to the Topic in this Group > > > about your - European RCD - thread. : > > > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Gerd" wrote: > > > > > > > I thought this might merit a thread of it's own. > > > > Actually, meeting the RCD requirements is not so difficult - > even > > > > the worst commercially produced rubbish makes it, no? ;-) > > > > > > > > The directive itself really requires only the strict minimum of > what > > > > we would consider a seaworthy boat anyway. For example, > concerning > > > > stability, the AVS (angle of vanishing stability) is set low > enough > > > > so that catamarans can make it, and there is no mention of > inverted > > > > I have no doubt that all of Brents designs, and probably 99 % > of > > > the other designs out there on the > > > > market could produce a boat that would pass the requirements > > > > (including my own) > > > ------------------ > > > I have no doubt Brent Swain's designs can obtain EU certification. > > > Yago could obtain it eventualy by altering the keel and deck :-) > > > EU certification is not relevant outside the EU , > > > on the other hand it is nice to know a boat you consider > > > building will recover from an eventual capsize . > > > ------------------ > > > > In some respects, it would even have a negative effect on our > boats > > > > if we would tryx to comply: for example, not only the boat but > also > > > > the some of the equipment has to be certified, meaning a > > > > brent-style bullet proof self-made hatch would need to be > replaced > > > > with a more flimsy commercial but certified product. > > > ------------------ > > > You must be joking :-) > > > ------------------ > > > > Most designers here in Europe are realistic and honest enough > to > > > > tell amateurs not to bother. Some will say that their designs > are > > > > RCD compliant - but careful, this does not mean anything else > than > > > > that basic stability and flooding calculations give results > that > > > > are within the required parameters,.. > > > ------------------ > > > Honnest designers adapt there designs according to > > > the more stringend EU rules , > > > as an example cause you must have miss't post 10260 : > > > ------------------ > > > Twin keels and twin rudders , cause I would > > > love to keep the draft at 2' > > > > > > Why , cause this is the easyest way to be well > > > within EU rules , it is as simple as that . > > > > > > I posted to more Files for you and Bert to see in > > > http://tinyurl.com/clz8g , in Origamiboats2 : > > > > > > Files > Ben's Stuff > Options > > > -JPBonTwinkeels.jpg > > > twinkeels article by JP Brouns Nov 18, 2005 > > > -NDrollover1.jpg > > > NavalDesigner Stability pic Nov 18, 2005 > > > -Présentation RAGTIME.pdf > > > Ragtime PDF 99 KB Jan 22, 2006 > > > -Schwertomane3.jpg > > > Original Ragtime 342 KB Jan 22, 2006 > > > > > > You can see that the Original Ragtime draft was > > > from 18cm to 1,5m , the speed was fenomenal , > > > so was the upwind performance ,see the weight :-) > > > > > > Today Ragtime is offered with 0,70m draft and > > > twin keels to be conform with EU regulations. > > > > > > We could consider a combination of keels and > > > boards , but renewed studies by most architects > > > in the EU , to design at the lowest cost for > > > the best performance with twinkeelers replacing the > > > integral centerboarders , show excellent performance > > > with new low draft keels as you can see in Tilapia : > > > http://www.buildingyourboat.com/tiki-browse_gallery.php? > galleryId=6 > > > ---------------------- > > > > > > > > The real difficulty is the preparation of the file. If you see > that > > > > even some smaller yards prefer to ask specialized agents to > handle > > > > that for them, and for a lot of money, you will understand that > for > > > > an amateur without the connections and experience this is > probably > > > > a royal pain in the ass, and quite expensive on top of that. > > > > > > > ....it is still not difficult enough to get the RCD... but > again, > > > > it is NOT REQUIRED if you build for yourself and do not sell > > > > within the first 5 years. > > > > > > > > If in spite of that you really want to know what's in it, go to > > > > http://www.rsg.be/ or > > > > http://www.imci.org/languages/englishlanguage/index1.html > > > > but don't forget to take a sixpack, something to eat and warm > > > > closing, because you won't be coming back anytime soon ;-) > > > > Gerd > > > > The Yago project at http://www.justmueller.com/boats/ > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------- > > > I suggest you take a sixpack , and if it is so easy as > > > you claim it is , to simply obtain your EU certification :-) > > > or shutt the fuck up about what EU designers should do or not :-) > > > > > > Sceptical Old Ben > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------- > > > From: "Gerd" Date: Mon Jan 23, 2006 11:44 pm > > > Subject: Re: books or dvds > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III" > wrote: > > > > > I became a big [ really big ] fan of KAYAH , > > > > > such a big fan I could not resist posting a pic :-) > > > http://www.buildingyourboat.com/tiki-browse_gallery.php? > galleryId=6 > > > > > is where you gone find that Pic , > > > > > > > > Old Ben, i will stop following your links as more often than > not they > > > > take us to some unrelated stuff, and that is if we are lucky... > > > > For my part, I would prefer you would stop posting that rubbish > here > > > > please - no offense meant. > > > -------------- > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS a.. Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web. b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 10327|10222|2006-02-01 13:47:17|edward_stoneuk|Re: the Loo onboard .|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "edward_stoneuk" wrote: > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III" wrote: > > > > Hi Ted , could you post us a pic ? > > What you describe reminds me of Michael Paillin > > crossing the Arabian Sea from the Gulf to India > > on a Dow , the Loo was well ventilated , > > totaly out of the boat on the afthside . > > You may have seen the series : > > around the world under 80 days . Ben, After much looking I found the article. It was by Alain d'Hylas the inventor of the spade anchor ( not who I said) on page 104 of the Practical Boat Owner September 2003. Regards, Ted Re| 10328|10254|2006-02-01 15:06:33|mickeyolaf|Re: books or dvds + Storm|I said fiberglass boats have problems. I didn't say yours did. Tanzer 22's should be added to the list of quality fiberglass boats. I'm glad that yours is trouble free. Feranc Mate should have included Tanzer 22's in his book of Best Sailboats. Saying that fiberglass sailboats have problems is not deriding your boat. On mine the hull formed blisters below the waterline which I had to grind off and fill with epoxy and then do the same the next year. There were crowsfeet at stress points (near the winches). The chainplates leaked and the toe rails leaked. The foam at the transom separated from the glass and I had to drill holes to drain off the water. I cut vents in the drop boards and left the hatch open with the dingy over it so that the dampness would be reduced. That boat could sweat. Look at all of the powerboats that have had to have the glassed in plywood transoms removed and replaced as well as the stringers removed. Where did that water come from? Immaculate water conception? A friend of mine had his Bayliner picked up at Point Roberts for hull cleaning and it was blocked wrong and the hull cracked. A $2800.00 insurance claim. Would a steel or aluminum boat have cracked? There are lots of good fiberglass boats out there such as Tanzer, Pacific Seacraft, Valiant, Fisher and probably dozens of others. And there are lots of lousy ones taking up valuable space. In my marina there is a sea of white plastic look-a-likes. Salty they don't look. Bleach bottle and sterile they do. And on a lighter note how do you recyle an old glass boat? Dig a hole in the ground and use it as a planter? Put it in a landfill where it will absorb water for the next 1000 years? A old metal boat can be crushed and sent to Japan where it will return as a Toyota. --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Michael Casling wrote: > > I have a Tanzer 22. It does not blister, delaminate, separate from its core, crack or craze. It does not absorb water, and its does sweat, but probably less than a steel boat of the same size. > There are over 2500 of these boats sailing. Many like mine are 30 years old. This boat is capable of going to Hawaii. > So far I fail to see the problem with my boat. Did I mention I bought it used and cheap. > I will be adding vents to fix the condensation problem. I have never been a fan of deriding the other products to promote my own. > Promote the advantages of steel as you see them, but please recognize that there are many fine plastic boats sailing, and many rusty steel boats that are taking up valuable space. > If a steel boat can be painted to prevent rust, then a plastic boat can be painted to prevent the gelcoat absorbing water. > Industrial Formulators in Burnaby BC provided this information in the 70s for those that would listen. > > Michael > ----- Original Message ----- > From: mickeyolaf > To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2006 7:09 PM > Subject: [origamiboats] Re: books or dvds + Storm > > > There is no doubt that metal boats are far stronger and sounder than glass ones. > Fiberglass boats absorb water. A fiberglass hull after a year in the water will weight > hundreds of pounds more. They also blister, delaminate, separate from their cores, sweat, > crack, craze and so on. > But they are fast to build, cheaper to mass produce, and do make notable passages > around the world. Some however also look like floating bleach bottles. > Fiberglass boats caught on fast with boaters because they don't need varnish, don't rot or > rust, and hull maintenace is generally a wash and wax. > I had a fiberglass saiboat but I was never really proud to sail it. It looked like all of the > other boats. I never had faith in it's strength when the seas were pounding the bow. You're > also never going to feel or look like an old salt smoking your pipe on the deck of a > Catalina. I would sell one if it were given to me. > Another thing about glass boats is you have to every few years rebed all of the fittings or > they leak. You don't have to rebed fittings that are welded on. > You're right that Catalina and Hunter and Beneteau are not offshore vessels. But I quess if > you have to own a boat and have limited time fiberglass takes less maintenance time. > When u chip the gelcoat rust doesn't start tomorrow. > There are some well built glass boats out there such as Valiant and Pacific Seacraft but > they are way beyound most peoples means. > I would want a boat that had a reserve strength built in so that when I screwed up in my > boat handling the boat would save my ..s. Hence my metal boat. > > > > > > > > > > -- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III" wrote: > > > > > > I can agree with all remarks made by Brent Swain . > > > > Any boat , small or large can be confronted by an unannounced > > Storm , be it along the coastline or offshore . > > > > As a good read I repost some thoughts about the 1979 Fastnet > > posted some days ago in another Group . > > [all offensive and/or irrelevant text removed ] > > Just to show no rule or classification can guarantee you'r safety . > > > > A sensible proven design ,a good build and most important > > a good skipper will bring you home safely . > > > > Hoping this helps . > > Old Ben > > ---------------------------- > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "brentswain38" > > wrote: > > > > > > Many of the boats the EU approves like Beneteaus, Hunters, or many > > > group Finot boats , I wouldn't go outside very protected waters > > in.You > > > could challenge an approved fibreglass boat to a demolition derby > > and > > > prove the point conclusively with only minimal dammage to your > > paint job. > > > With their excessive beam and flush decks many are anything but > > self > > > righting.Their flimsey knee high lifelines are also an extreme > > danger. > > > Brent > > > > > ======================= > > --- In proa_file@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III" wrote: > > > Hi All,.... > > > --------------------- > > > --- X wrote: > > > > Total length was the most important survival factor during > > > > the '79Fastnet race (what a new, original argument!). > > > > Pozdrawiam > > > ---------- > > > Sorry to say X , the facts are that in the mid seventhies > > > some serious architects WARNED allready about the dangerous > > > design and building practices from younger architects , > > > regretfully those warnings where smiled away with dramatic > > > consequences. > > > > > > S&S NY had more than 1 boat in that race , and if I remember > > > well , the Frenchie Alain Cathelinau was awarded the UK > > > yachtman of the year Award for saving many lives with is > > > small S&S designed standard production She. > > > > > > I remember also a Pat Patterson designed 33'Catamaran > > > [ a Heavenly Twin on steroids ] > > > outsailed that storm without concern :-), just to remind > > > us all , that a multihull can be safe in a storm . > > > > > > Afther the 79 Fastnet , the rules where inforced so that > > > selfrighting and serious scantlings became mandatory ! > > > ------------------------- > > > Beside some obvious features like scantlings , size of > > > openings , recovery systems in case of being turned over , > > > [ yes all boats can be turned over by a big wave ] > > > floatability and some safety equipment , > > > it is the skipper that makes the boat offshore capable or not !!! > > > > > > Here is what Dudley Dix said about it in an interview to > > > SmallCraftAdvisor: "I come to the conclusion that there is one > > major > > > factor which contributes to the ability of the boat to deal with > > > extreme weather. That is the need for an experienced, levelheaded > > and > > > capable skipper, with a thorough knowledge of the abilities and > > > limitations of his own boat. Such a skipper will bring his vessel > > and > > > crew through almost anything. In contrast, even the most seaworthy > > of > > > boats may be at risk in moderate weather without a competent > > skipper." > > ----------------- > > > --- Y wrote: > > > > To whom this may interest, > > > > Retort on my message re: classification has been much on the > > > > emotional level rather than ..... > > > > > > Surely not all are that blinkered - there must be some > > > > ( hullo old Ben!) who see the difference between OC's and > > > > multihulls because they have a practical rather than a purely > > > > theoretical interest in proas, and thus have reason > > > > to question the over-simplification of criterion. > > > > The group vote apparently stands for all ....... > > > --------------------- > > > Y , just a proposal , hoping you will agree , > > > Lett us forget the classifications , definitions , sources > > > origins for a while , just for a month , that aint long. > > > > > > Reasons to consider : > > > > > > 1 : To be fair to X , cause he is gone need a bunch of > > > little arrows , once the " BennyProa " design is out. > > > 2 : I find historical origins an interesting subject > > > http://www.buildingyourboat.com/tiki-browse_gallery.php? galleryId=6 > > > is where you find the " Perahu or Prahus " pics I posted , > > > is the KlissIII design allready historical ??? > > > 3 : Am I wrong to concentrate rather on boats than on definitions. > > > 4 : In Molly Goodhead's bar in Tarpon Springs > > > an Old spirited lady told me , and I had to agree > > > " on the Ocean , what counts is the Motion " > > > I hope you saw those pretty pics from nice Great Waves in : > > > http://www.buildingyourboat.com/tiki-browse_gallery.php? galleryId=4 > > > sooner or later any boater can be confronted with a storm. > > > 5 : http://tinyurl.com/ajny6 is a direct Link to a sailor's Menu > > > I posted it , hoping to bring some real interesting ladies > > > to multihull forums , aint that more interesting than > > > Voting over definitions and classifications . > > > You will find Boating Groups where cooking on small > > > boats brought a lot of interesting practical recepies . > > > 6 : About Voting and reeeeeeel democracy an old African Chief > > > once told me : you dammed Europeans left us with your > > > silly voting system . People should know what they vote > > > for in the first place :-) He was a WISE man ! > > > 7 : I do not believe in reeeeeel democracy either . > > > The Owner and Moderators of a Group should decide !!! > > > Not Us the Innocent members :-) > > > They are the Government in this Group !!! > > > 8 : Behaving,Designing and building to certain rules is easy :-) > > > A change of rules brings work for architects :-) > > > I am convinced that the MiniTransat rules , designs , > > > result in a lot of interesting stuff for cruisers !!! > > > 9 : http://www.belgianboatshow.be/ is a direct Link to > > > the Gent Boatshow , you will see Peter Laureyssens pic > > > in the Intro , a nice Belgian sailor, the Series WINNER! > > > 10: http://www.wangka.be/ is a fine meeting place , for > > > those wanting to talk boats with me :-)Multi or Mono > > > see their website to see some boats they build. > > > 2 days before the show , and during the Ghent boatshow > > > I will be available via the Skype phone system : ben_azo :-) > > > Open and ready to talk with anybody , about Boats > > > and other matters :-) > > > > > > This mail is really to long to be good :-) > > > I will not repeat that exercise , be reassured . > > > I just wanted to bring that exhausting method to all's > > > attention in a funny way :-) > > > > > > Old Ben > > > > > > PS: A GOOD book for multi-fans is : > > > "Two girls, two catamarans" by James Wharram > > > Unknown Binding: 192 pages > > > Publisher: Abelard-Schuman (January 1, 1969) > > > Language: English > > > ISBN: 0200716239 > > > Note: Gift-wrapping is not available for this item. > > > > > > Liberalism and Flowerpower was IN in those days :-) > > > I forgot the popular moto then :-) > > > Somebody Old and Brave enough may remember......... > > ================================= > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III" > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Gerd" wrote: > > > > > > > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III" > > wrote: > > > > > > since I work with some nice guys from Poland, > > > > > > I became a big [ really big ] fan of KAYAH , > > > > > > such a big fan I could not resist posting a pic :-) > > > > > > http://www.buildingyourboat.com/tiki- browse_gallery.php? > > galleryId=6 > > > > > > is where you gone find that Pic , > > > > --------- > > > > > Old Ben, i will stop following your links as more often than > > not they > > > > > take us to some unrelated stuff, and that is if we are lucky... > > > > > ... For my part, I would prefer you > > > > > would stop posting that rubbish here please - no offense meant. > > > > --------- > > > > Hi Gerd , from time to time it is better to sit back a while > > > > and think twice before posting anything :-) > > > > Thanks for your opinion . Following your previous demands i posted > > > > sources on all pics and links I posted lately , so it would > > > > be more easy for you to follow :-) > > > > > > > > You asked for photos to be posted outside the Group with > > > > a direct link so all could find them , wish I did. > > > > Ok , I will from now on only post a direct Link to the > > > > picture and not to the album , that is easy to do :-) See > > > > http://tinyurl.com/azylp hoping you find the > > > > http://tinyurl.com/daojh also on the pic to find the test, > > > > of a little twinkeeler with Europen RCD . > > > > > > > > Don't deny me the freedom of posting pics please :-) > > > > You remain free to watch , what you like !!! > > > > > > > > I sure will not stop following your Posts , even > > > > if I consider some real rubbish , no offence meant . > > > > Feel free to post whatever you like , you will find some > > > > of my reflexions , all relevant to the Topic in this Group > > > > about your - European RCD - thread. : > > > > > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Gerd" wrote: > > > > > > > > > I thought this might merit a thread of it's own. > > > > > Actually, meeting the RCD requirements is not so difficult - > > even > > > > > the worst commercially produced rubbish makes it, no? ;-) > > > > > > > > > > The directive itself really requires only the strict minimum of > > what > > > > > we would consider a seaworthy boat anyway. For example, > > concerning > > > > > stability, the AVS (angle of vanishing stability) is set low > > enough > > > > > so that catamarans can make it, and there is no mention of > > inverted > > > > > I have no doubt that all of Brents designs, and probably 99 % > > of > > > > the other designs out there on the > > > > > market could produce a boat that would pass the requirements > > > > > (including my own) > > > > ------------------ > > > > I have no doubt Brent Swain's designs can obtain EU certification. > > > > Yago could obtain it eventualy by altering the keel and deck :-) > > > > EU certification is not relevant outside the EU , > > > > on the other hand it is nice to know a boat you consider > > > > building will recover from an eventual capsize . > > > > ------------------ > > > > > In some respects, it would even have a negative effect on our > > boats > > > > > if we would tryx to comply: for example, not only the boat but > > also > > > > > the some of the equipment has to be certified, meaning a > > > > > brent-style bullet proof self-made hatch would need to be > > replaced > > > > > with a more flimsy commercial but certified product. > > > > ------------------ > > > > You must be joking :-) > > > > ------------------ > > > > > Most designers here in Europe are realistic and honest enough > > to > > > > > tell amateurs not to bother. Some will say that their designs > > are > > > > > RCD compliant - but careful, this does not mean anything else > > than > > > > > that basic stability and flooding calculations give results > > that > > > > > are within the required parameters,.. > > > > ------------------ > > > > Honnest designers adapt there designs according to > > > > the more stringend EU rules , > > > > as an example cause you must have miss't post 10260 : > > > > ------------------ > > > > Twin keels and twin rudders , cause I would > > > > love to keep the draft at 2' > > > > > > > > Why , cause this is the easyest way to be well > > > > within EU rules , it is as simple as that . > > > > > > > > I posted to more Files for you and Bert to see in > > > > http://tinyurl.com/clz8g , in Origamiboats2 : > > > > > > > > Files > Ben's Stuff > Options > > > > -JPBonTwinkeels.jpg > > > > twinkeels article by JP Brouns Nov 18, 2005 > > > > -NDrollover1.jpg > > > > NavalDesigner Stability pic Nov 18, 2005 > > > > -Présentation RAGTIME.pdf > > > > Ragtime PDF 99 KB Jan 22, 2006 > > > > -Schwertomane3.jpg > > > > Original Ragtime 342 KB Jan 22, 2006 > > > > > > > > You can see that the Original Ragtime draft was > > > > from 18cm to 1,5m , the speed was fenomenal , > > > > so was the upwind performance ,see the weight :-) > > > > > > > > Today Ragtime is offered with 0,70m draft and > > > > twin keels to be conform with EU regulations. > > > > > > > > We could consider a combination of keels and > > > > boards , but renewed studies by most architects > > > > in the EU , to design at the lowest cost for > > > > the best performance with twinkeelers replacing the > > > > integral centerboarders , show excellent performance > > > > with new low draft keels as you can see in Tilapia : > > > > http://www.buildingyourboat.com/tiki-browse_gallery.php? > > galleryId=6 > > > > ---------------------- > > > > > > > > > > The real difficulty is the preparation of the file. If you see > > that > > > > > even some smaller yards prefer to ask specialized agents to > > handle > > > > > that for them, and for a lot of money, you will understand that > > for > > > > > an amateur without the connections and experience this is > > probably > > > > > a royal pain in the ass, and quite expensive on top of that. > > > > > > > > > ....it is still not difficult enough to get the RCD... but > > again, > > > > > it is NOT REQUIRED if you build for yourself and do not sell > > > > > within the first 5 years. > > > > > > > > > > If in spite of that you really want to know what's in it, go to > > > > > http://www.rsg.be/ or > > > > > http://www.imci.org/languages/englishlanguage/index1.html > > > > > but don't forget to take a sixpack, something to eat and warm > > > > > closing, because you won't be coming back anytime soon ;- ) > > > > > Gerd > > > > > The Yago project at http://www.justmueller.com/boats/ > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------- ------ > > > > I suggest you take a sixpack , and if it is so easy as > > > > you claim it is , to simply obtain your EU certification :- ) > > > > or shutt the fuck up about what EU designers should do or not :-) > > > > > > > > Sceptical Old Ben > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------- ------ > > > > From: "Gerd" Date: Mon Jan 23, 2006 11:44 pm > > > > Subject: Re: books or dvds > > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III" > > wrote: > > > > > > I became a big [ really big ] fan of KAYAH , > > > > > > such a big fan I could not resist posting a pic :-) > > > > http://www.buildingyourboat.com/tiki-browse_gallery.php? > > galleryId=6 > > > > > > is where you gone find that Pic , > > > > > > > > > > Old Ben, i will stop following your links as more often than > > not they > > > > > take us to some unrelated stuff, and that is if we are lucky... > > > > > For my part, I would prefer you would stop posting that rubbish > > here > > > > > please - no offense meant. > > > > -------------- > > > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats- unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------- > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > a.. Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web. > > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------- > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > | 10330|10319|2006-02-01 15:31:27|jericoera|Re: Who needs a motor?|Good advice by all. A heavy steel boat would not be much fun to use a skulling oar with I don't suppose. The cost of an engine is less than fixing a damaged boat that hits the rocks or another boat. A boat without a motor would likely smell better however. Carl M. --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "hollowayjoshua" wrote: > > Aloha again. Sorry about that. It was brought to my attention that > the tb link didn't come up... This should help: > > www.adventuresoftinybubbles.com > | 10331|869|2006-02-01 16:04:30|Jim Ragsdale|welding|When pulling the1/2 hull plate together, do ya'll weld the extra plate pieces and the bulwarks from one side only or do you flip the plate and weld both sides before pulling together? Thanks, Jim Ragsdale [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]| 10332|869|2006-02-01 16:31:01|brentswain38|Re: welding|We weld with full penetration from one side only, and get the other side when it is pulled up off the ground, when the hulkl is pulled together. Its a good idea to get 4 inch welds on the outside of the chines and centreline as soon as they come off the ground, as the inside welds have hinged a lot and may crack. Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Jim Ragsdale" wrote: > > When pulling the1/2 hull plate together, do ya'll weld the extra plate > pieces and the bulwarks from one side only or do you flip the plate and weld > both sides before pulling together? > > > > Thanks, > > Jim Ragsdale > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > | 10333|869|2006-02-01 16:41:03|Michael Collins|Laminating steel with epoxy fiberglass|Has anyone tried laminating a steel hull with a thin layer of expoxy fiberglass to create a lower maintenace steel boat? My guess is that a 6 oz cloth with epoxy would chip much less than any paint. And then you would still need the paint. The vaccuum resine infussion techniques would make this a much easier job, and better quality, than conventional layup methods. Michael Collins| 10334|10319|2006-02-01 16:43:43|brentswain38|Re: Who needs a motor?|In my last boat I did the first three years , two on the BC coast and one trip to the Marquersas, Tahiti, Isles sous le vent , Hawaii and back to BC without a motor.It was stressful at times, but a great learning experience.Since then I don't lose a lot of sleep over what would happen if the motor quit. The last time that happened I just kept on cruising until I got it working again.Altho I wouldn't like to cruise deliberately without one, I'm grateful for having had the experience of sailing without one.While often stressful at the time knowing how to get along without one has greatly reduced the stress level while cruising since. Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "jericoera" wrote: > > Good advice by all. A heavy steel boat would not be much fun to use a > skulling oar with I don't suppose. The cost of an engine is less than > fixing a damaged boat that hits the rocks or another boat. > > A boat without a motor would likely smell better however. > > Carl M. > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "hollowayjoshua" > wrote: > > > > Aloha again. Sorry about that. It was brought to my attention that > > the tb link didn't come up... This should help: > > > > www.adventuresoftinybubbles.com > > > | 10335|10309|2006-02-01 16:46:10|brentswain38|Re: Looking for Tony from Vanc. Island|Rowland You'll probably find Tony where you last found Ken as that's probably where he is working. Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "kingsknight4life" wrote: > > Thnaks everyone I have his number now. > Rowland > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "brentswain38" > wrote: > > > > I think Tony Lyons has a phone number in cumberland BC. > > Brent > > > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Alex Christie > wrote: > > > > > > I think Tony's last name is Lyon or Lyons, check phone number > online at > > > www.mytelus.com under Phone Book to find it. > > > > > > Alex > > > > > > > > > On 30-Jan-06, at 2:57 PM, kingsknight4life wrote: > > > > > > > Hi. > > > > If Brent, Evan, Gary or anyone else out there has a ph. > number for > > > > Tony. The guy who does boat ineriors. I'd appreciate it if > you could > > > > e- > > > > mail it to me or call me 250-715-8161 > > > > Thanks Rowland > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > > > > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > SPONSORED LINKS > > > > British columbia canada > > > > Vancouver island > > > > Yacht > > > > > > > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > > > > > > > ▪ Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web. > > > > > > > > ▪ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > ▪ Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! > Terms of > > > > Service. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > | 10336|869|2006-02-01 16:52:08|brentswain38|Re: Laminating steel with epoxy fiberglass|I did once . It works as long as you don't chip it. When you do you always wonder if some has come away beyond where you repair it, leaving a gap for water to sit in and cause corrosion . It aint worth the trouble. Al least with paint , you can clearly see where there is trouble early on.You can have trouble well hidden behind the fibreglass for a long time before it becomes obvious, something that doesn't happen with paint. Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Michael Collins wrote: > > > Has anyone tried laminating a steel hull with a thin layer of expoxy > fiberglass to create a lower maintenace steel boat? > > My guess is that a 6 oz cloth with epoxy would chip much less than any > paint. And then you would still need the paint. The vaccuum resine > infussion techniques would make this a much easier job, and better > quality, than conventional layup methods. > > Michael Collins > | 10337|10254|2006-02-01 17:40:35|cirejay|Re: books or dvds + Storm|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "mickeyolaf" wrote: > > And on a lighter note how do you recyle an old glass boat? Dig a > hole in the ground and use it as a planter? Put it in a landfill > where it will absorb water for the next 1000 years? Actually, they grind them up and recycle. eric S/V Nebaras| 10338|10254|2006-02-01 17:54:41|Michael Casling|Re: books or dvds + Storm|I can agree with this post. O also have a Tanzer 8.5 that I bought new in 1979. The Pacific Seacraft in our club has some problems with the glass work. The owner is not happy. Blister problems are a pain, and the industry was in denial for quite some time. There are still folks who try to deny it. POR 15 black covers fiberglass very well and is very smooth. Makes a good undercoat for the anti fouling paint. The rudders on all the Tanzers are a terrible design but easily fixed. The rigging wyre is too light on the T28 and T8.5, but that is easily fixed as well, same thing with the gooseneck. Michael ----- Original Message ----- From: mickeyolaf To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2006 12:05 PM Subject: [origamiboats] Re: books or dvds + Storm I said fiberglass boats have problems. I didn't say yours did. Tanzer 22's should be added to the list of quality fiberglass boats. I'm glad that yours is trouble free. Feranc Mate should have included Tanzer 22's in his book of Best Sailboats. Saying that fiberglass sailboats have problems is not deriding your boat. On mine the hull formed blisters below the waterline which I had to grind off and fill with epoxy and then do the same the next year. There were crowsfeet at stress points (near the winches). The chainplates leaked and the toe rails leaked. The foam at the transom separated from the glass and I had to drill holes to drain off the water. I cut vents in the drop boards and left the hatch open with the dingy over it so that the dampness would be reduced. That boat could sweat. Look at all of the powerboats that have had to have the glassed in plywood transoms removed and replaced as well as the stringers removed. Where did that water come from? Immaculate water conception? A friend of mine had his Bayliner picked up at Point Roberts for hull cleaning and it was blocked wrong and the hull cracked. A $2800.00 insurance claim. Would a steel or aluminum boat have cracked? There are lots of good fiberglass boats out there such as Tanzer, Pacific Seacraft, Valiant, Fisher and probably dozens of others. And there are lots of lousy ones taking up valuable space. In my marina there is a sea of white plastic look-a-likes. Salty they don't look. Bleach bottle and sterile they do. And on a lighter note how do you recyle an old glass boat? Dig a hole in the ground and use it as a planter? Put it in a landfill where it will absorb water for the next 1000 years? A old metal boat can be crushed and sent to Japan where it will return as a Toyota. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 10339|10339|2006-02-01 19:13:13|mkriley@fuse.net|Re: Digest Number 1451|old fibergass is ground up and made into filler to use in the lamination process. mike ---- origamiboats@yahoogroups.com wrote: > There is 1 message in this issue. > > Topics in this digest: > > 1. Re: books or dvds + Storm > From: "cirejay" > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > ________________________________________________________________________ > > Message: 1 > Date: Wed, 01 Feb 2006 22:38:06 -0000 > From: "cirejay" > Subject: Re: books or dvds + Storm > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "mickeyolaf" > wrote: > > > > And on a lighter note how do you recyle an old glass boat? Dig a > > hole in the ground and use it as a planter? Put it in a landfill > > where it will absorb water for the next 1000 years? > > Actually, they grind them up and recycle. > > eric S/V Nebaras > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > ________________________________________________________________________ > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > | 10340|10307|2006-02-01 19:47:37|Gary H. Lucas|Re: Digest Number 1448 paint system|Polyurethane paint is very dangerous if sprayed. Brushing it is no more dangerous than epoxy paint. I brush painted an entire Catalina 22 with two part urethane and got very good results, after I made a mistake and discovered the secret! The secret was that you need to thin it WAY more than you would think. When you thin it enough it self levels and the brush strokes virtually disappear. You also have to keep a wet edge, and this can be difficult. What this means is that you must never paint onto paint that has already started to dry, only onto paint that was applied immediately before. This is real tough to do if you are painting the fore deck and you get to the cabin and it splits into two paths! I had a friend help. When we got to the cabin I painted down one side, he painted down the other. We came back together at the cockpit and I painted my way out of the boat over the stern. The hull was much easier to do, you just go all the way around and you have one seam that you hide on the sharp corner of the bow. You also have to plan on it taking at least four really thinned coats. Two coats simply won't cover anything dark at all. Hope this helps. Gary H. Lucas ----- Original Message ----- From: "mickeyolaf" To: Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2006 9:21 PM Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Digest Number 1448 paint system >I plan to start painting as soon as it quits raining, if it ever does. BC >is setting new records > for rain this year. If it doesn't quit soon Noah may have to commission > Brent to design an > origami ark. > I have been reading everything I can find about painting and have decided > that sanding, > cleaning, then priming and painting in two part high build epoxy paint > seems to be the > best undercoating method. > Then epoxy fairing compound over the sanded paint. (That way if the > fairing compound > ever lets go there is still paint protection under.) Then two part > polyurethane primer and > paint. > I'm hoping if I do it right I won't be repainting again for ten years. I > painted my last boat, a > 27, with epoxy paint, two part white. I was scared off polyurethane by > the warnings about > the fumes and the need for respirators and an air supply etc. The only > real application > problem with epoxy is not to paint when there is humidity. With epoxy use > a simple > canister fume mask, don't get it on you and don't breath the dust which > are all easy > precautions to follow. > You read the warnings with polyurethane paint and you would think after > you applyed it > you are going to grow a third eye. > I put the epoxy put on with a roller and tipped it off. It turned out > quite well with a bit of > an orangepeel finish which hides imperfections. > It did chalk but "Simply Z Best Car Wax" ( yes, that is the products name) > brought it up > shining for a lot of years. > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "brentswain38" > wrote: >> >> >> When epoxy chalks it is constantly eroding away over and getting >> thinner over the years. It is the best protection for the steel >> available and gives a quick buildup, but must be covered by something >> ( preferably while still wet) to stop the UV dammage. >> Brent >> >> --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, wrote: >> > >> > i recommended 2 part polyester paints like awlgrip or imron as they >> have the best hardness and uv resistance and are applied over epoxy >> primers for best adhesion. You can use epoxy paints but they >> > degrade and chalk fast in the sun,sometimes that can be good like >> for repainting nonskid. >> > I have had one boat the had a new superstructure built that had >> awlgrip epoxy primer on it for about 10 years and it held up fine but >> was getting thin , one other thing epoxys even topcoats are very >> chemicaly active compares to polyesters so fenders and plastic wtater >> jugs and swimfins will interact with it and cause blistering and >> discoloration in the paints. >> > mike >> > >> > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > | 10341|869|2006-02-01 20:14:28|tom|Re: Laminating steel with epoxy fiberglass|A Freind of mine did his steel keel a couple times and the glass would always come loose from the steel,If I recall right he even called the west systems epoxy tec represenative and they told him how to do it by the book and it still didnt work Tom ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Collins" To: Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2006 1:39 PM Subject: [origamiboats] Laminating steel with epoxy fiberglass > > Has anyone tried laminating a steel hull with a thin layer of expoxy > fiberglass to create a lower maintenace steel boat? > > My guess is that a 6 oz cloth with epoxy would chip much less than any > paint. And then you would still need the paint. The vaccuum resine > infussion techniques would make this a much easier job, and better > quality, than conventional layup methods. > > Michael Collins > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > | 10342|10222|2006-02-01 21:41:08|Puck III|Re: the Loo onboard .+ security Grill|Hi Ted , thanks for the directions , I got it ! That's indeed a Dream Loo for on the Ocean . On the Ocean , what counts is the Motion :-) Thats a most interesting article . The Loo cover looks realy neat , looks like the wooden floor in a shower and serves as a seat . Going to windward in a storm , that Loo can serve as a shower ! The security entrance grill , presented in the same article looks simple and secure ! Thats a fine security item on every boat , these days. Thanks for sharing and directions . Old Ben --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "edward_stoneuk" wrote: > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "edward_stoneuk" > wrote: > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III" wrote: > > > > > > Hi Ted , could you post us a pic ? > > > What you describe reminds me of Michael Paillin > > > crossing the Arabian Sea from the Gulf to India > > > on a Dow , the Loo was well ventilated , > > > totaly out of the boat on the afthside . > > > You may have seen the series : > > > around the world under 80 days . > > > Ben, > > After much looking I found the article. It was by Alain d'Hylas the > inventor of the spade anchor ( not who I said) on page 104 of the > Practical Boat Owner September 2003. > > Regards, > Ted > > Re > | 10343|10254|2006-02-01 22:20:22|Puck III|Re: books or dvds + Storm + Surveyor|Hi Guys , good boats and bad boats can be found in all materials . Good boats can be harder to find , they also keep their resale value much better and longer . Some architects have the same design offered by different builders , in different materials , same design but different boats. A good Surveyor is ofthen a wise investment . I wanted to buy a secondhand boat in Texas , took myself an honnest Surveyor , 500$ extreemly well spend, cause the Guy did an excellent Job and saved me a long and exhausting trip , wish would have cost much more . A reputable Design , a good Builder , a good Surveyor. An honnest Insurance Brooker , A Prime Bank protection sceme ; just to name a few of the many Links that can make any boaters life enjoyable . A Good reputation takes years to build . Experience is the knowledge of things that went or can go wrong . We all know to be carefull , not to take all what's said or done online for granted. Sorry , I talked to much allready :-) Old Ben --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Michael Casling wrote: > > I have a Tanzer 22. It does not blister, delaminate, separate from its core, crack or craze. It does not absorb water, and its does sweat, but probably less than a steel boat of the same size. > There are over 2500 of these boats sailing. Many like mine are 30 years old. This boat is capable of going to Hawaii. > So far I fail to see the problem with my boat. Did I mention I bought it used and cheap. > I will be adding vents to fix the condensation problem. I have never been a fan of deriding the other products to promote my own. > Promote the advantages of steel as you see them, but please recognize that there are many fine plastic boats sailing, and many rusty steel boats that are taking up valuable space. > If a steel boat can be painted to prevent rust, then a plastic boat can be painted to prevent the gelcoat absorbing water. > Industrial Formulators in Burnaby BC provided this information in the 70s for those that would listen. > > Michael > ----- Original Message ----- > From: mickeyolaf > To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2006 7:09 PM > Subject: [origamiboats] Re: books or dvds + Storm > > > There is no doubt that metal boats are far stronger and sounder than glass ones. > Fiberglass boats absorb water. A fiberglass hull after a year in the water will weight > hundreds of pounds more. They also blister, delaminate, separate from their cores, sweat, > crack, craze and so on. > But they are fast to build, cheaper to mass produce, and do make notable passages > around the world. Some however also look like floating bleach bottles. > Fiberglass boats caught on fast with boaters because they don't need varnish, don't rot or > rust, and hull maintenace is generally a wash and wax. > I had a fiberglass saiboat but I was never really proud to sail it. It looked like all of the > other boats. I never had faith in it's strength when the seas were pounding the bow. You're > also never going to feel or look like an old salt smoking your pipe on the deck of a > Catalina. I would sell one if it were given to me. > Another thing about glass boats is you have to every few years rebed all of the fittings or > they leak. You don't have to rebed fittings that are welded on. > You're right that Catalina and Hunter and Beneteau are not offshore vessels. But I quess if > you have to own a boat and have limited time fiberglass takes less maintenance time. > When u chip the gelcoat rust doesn't start tomorrow. > There are some well built glass boats out there such as Valiant and Pacific Seacraft but > they are way beyound most peoples means. > I would want a boat that had a reserve strength built in so that when I screwed up in my > boat handling the boat would save my ..s. Hence my metal boat. > > > > > > > > > > -- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III" wrote: > > > > > > I can agree with all remarks made by Brent Swain . > > > > Any boat , small or large can be confronted by an unannounced > > Storm , be it along the coastline or offshore . > > > > As a good read I repost some thoughts about the 1979 Fastnet > > posted some days ago in another Group . > > [all offensive and/or irrelevant text removed ] > > Just to show no rule or classification can guarantee you'r safety . > > > > A sensible proven design ,a good build and most important > > a good skipper will bring you home safely . > > > > Hoping this helps . > > Old Ben > > ---------------------------- > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "brentswain38" > > wrote: > > > > > > Many of the boats the EU approves like Beneteaus, Hunters, or many > > > group Finot boats , I wouldn't go outside very protected waters > > in.You > > > could challenge an approved fibreglass boat to a demolition derby > > and > > > prove the point conclusively with only minimal dammage to your > > paint job. > > > With their excessive beam and flush decks many are anything but > > self > > > righting.Their flimsey knee high lifelines are also an extreme > > danger. > > > Brent > > > > > ======================= > > --- In proa_file@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III" wrote: > > > Hi All,.... > > > --------------------- > > > --- X wrote: > > > > Total length was the most important survival factor during > > > > the '79Fastnet race (what a new, original argument!). > > > > Pozdrawiam > > > ---------- > > > Sorry to say X , the facts are that in the mid seventhies > > > some serious architects WARNED allready about the dangerous > > > design and building practices from younger architects , > > > regretfully those warnings where smiled away with dramatic > > > consequences. > > > > > > S&S NY had more than 1 boat in that race , and if I remember > > > well , the Frenchie Alain Cathelinau was awarded the UK > > > yachtman of the year Award for saving many lives with is > > > small S&S designed standard production She. > > > > > > I remember also a Pat Patterson designed 33'Catamaran > > > [ a Heavenly Twin on steroids ] > > > outsailed that storm without concern :-), just to remind > > > us all , that a multihull can be safe in a storm . > > > > > > Afther the 79 Fastnet , the rules where inforced so that > > > selfrighting and serious scantlings became mandatory ! > > > ------------------------- > > > Beside some obvious features like scantlings , size of > > > openings , recovery systems in case of being turned over , > > > [ yes all boats can be turned over by a big wave ] > > > floatability and some safety equipment , > > > it is the skipper that makes the boat offshore capable or not !!! > > > > > > Here is what Dudley Dix said about it in an interview to > > > SmallCraftAdvisor: "I come to the conclusion that there is one > > major > > > factor which contributes to the ability of the boat to deal with > > > extreme weather. That is the need for an experienced, levelheaded > > and > > > capable skipper, with a thorough knowledge of the abilities and > > > limitations of his own boat. Such a skipper will bring his vessel > > and > > > crew through almost anything. In contrast, even the most seaworthy > > of > > > boats may be at risk in moderate weather without a competent > > skipper." > > ----------------- > > > --- Y wrote: > > > > To whom this may interest, > > > > Retort on my message re: classification has been much on the > > > > emotional level rather than ..... > > > > > > Surely not all are that blinkered - there must be some > > > > ( hullo old Ben!) who see the difference between OC's and > > > > multihulls because they have a practical rather than a purely > > > > theoretical interest in proas, and thus have reason > > > > to question the over-simplification of criterion. > > > > The group vote apparently stands for all ....... > > > --------------------- > > > Y , just a proposal , hoping you will agree , > > > Lett us forget the classifications , definitions , sources > > > origins for a while , just for a month , that aint long. > > > > > > Reasons to consider : > > > > > > 1 : To be fair to X , cause he is gone need a bunch of > > > little arrows , once the " BennyProa " design is out. > > > 2 : I find historical origins an interesting subject > > > http://www.buildingyourboat.com/tiki-browse_gallery.php? galleryId=6 > > > is where you find the " Perahu or Prahus " pics I posted , > > > is the KlissIII design allready historical ??? > > > 3 : Am I wrong to concentrate rather on boats than on definitions. > > > 4 : In Molly Goodhead's bar in Tarpon Springs > > > an Old spirited lady told me , and I had to agree > > > " on the Ocean , what counts is the Motion " > > > I hope you saw those pretty pics from nice Great Waves in : > > > http://www.buildingyourboat.com/tiki-browse_gallery.php? galleryId=4 > > > sooner or later any boater can be confronted with a storm. > > > 5 : http://tinyurl.com/ajny6 is a direct Link to a sailor's Menu > > > I posted it , hoping to bring some real interesting ladies > > > to multihull forums , aint that more interesting than > > > Voting over definitions and classifications . > > > You will find Boating Groups where cooking on small > > > boats brought a lot of interesting practical recepies . > > > 6 : About Voting and reeeeeeel democracy an old African Chief > > > once told me : you dammed Europeans left us with your > > > silly voting system . People should know what they vote > > > for in the first place :-) He was a WISE man ! > > > 7 : I do not believe in reeeeeel democracy either . > > > The Owner and Moderators of a Group should decide !!! > > > Not Us the Innocent members :-) > > > They are the Government in this Group !!! > > > 8 : Behaving,Designing and building to certain rules is easy :-) > > > A change of rules brings work for architects :-) > > > I am convinced that the MiniTransat rules , designs , > > > result in a lot of interesting stuff for cruisers !!! > > > 9 : http://www.belgianboatshow.be/ is a direct Link to > > > the Gent Boatshow , you will see Peter Laureyssens pic > > > in the Intro , a nice Belgian sailor, the Series WINNER! > > > 10: http://www.wangka.be/ is a fine meeting place , for > > > those wanting to talk boats with me :-)Multi or Mono > > > see their website to see some boats they build. > > > 2 days before the show , and during the Ghent boatshow > > > I will be available via the Skype phone system : ben_azo :-) > > > Open and ready to talk with anybody , about Boats > > > and other matters :-) > > > > > > This mail is really to long to be good :-) > > > I will not repeat that exercise , be reassured . > > > I just wanted to bring that exhausting method to all's > > > attention in a funny way :-) > > > > > > Old Ben > > > > > > PS: A GOOD book for multi-fans is : > > > "Two girls, two catamarans" by James Wharram > > > Unknown Binding: 192 pages > > > Publisher: Abelard-Schuman (January 1, 1969) > > > Language: English > > > ISBN: 0200716239 > > > Note: Gift-wrapping is not available for this item. > > > > > > Liberalism and Flowerpower was IN in those days :-) > > > I forgot the popular moto then :-) > > > Somebody Old and Brave enough may remember......... > > ================================= > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III" > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Gerd" wrote: > > > > > > > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III" > > wrote: > > > > > > since I work with some nice guys from Poland, > > > > > > I became a big [ really big ] fan of KAYAH , > > > > > > such a big fan I could not resist posting a pic :-) > > > > > > http://www.buildingyourboat.com/tiki-browse_gallery.php? > > galleryId=6 > > > > > > is where you gone find that Pic , > > > > --------- > > > > > Old Ben, i will stop following your links as more often than > > not they > > > > > take us to some unrelated stuff, and that is if we are lucky... > > > > > ... For my part, I would prefer you > > > > > would stop posting that rubbish here please - no offense meant. > > > > --------- > > > > Hi Gerd , from time to time it is better to sit back a while > > > > and think twice before posting anything :-) > > > > Thanks for your opinion . Following your previous demands i posted > > > > sources on all pics and links I posted lately , so it would > > > > be more easy for you to follow :-) > > > > > > > > You asked for photos to be posted outside the Group with > > > > a direct link so all could find them , wish I did. > > > > Ok , I will from now on only post a direct Link to the > > > > picture and not to the album , that is easy to do :-) See > > > > http://tinyurl.com/azylp hoping you find the > > > > http://tinyurl.com/daojh also on the pic to find the test, > > > > of a little twinkeeler with Europen RCD . > > > > > > > > Don't deny me the freedom of posting pics please :-) > > > > You remain free to watch , what you like !!! > > > > > > > > I sure will not stop following your Posts , even > > > > if I consider some real rubbish , no offence meant . > > > > Feel free to post whatever you like , you will find some > > > > of my reflexions , all relevant to the Topic in this Group > > > > about your - European RCD - thread. : > > > > > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Gerd" wrote: > > > > > > > > > I thought this might merit a thread of it's own. > > > > > Actually, meeting the RCD requirements is not so difficult - > > even > > > > > the worst commercially produced rubbish makes it, no? ;-) > > > > > > > > > > The directive itself really requires only the strict minimum of > > what > > > > > we would consider a seaworthy boat anyway. For example, > > concerning > > > > > stability, the AVS (angle of vanishing stability) is set low > > enough > > > > > so that catamarans can make it, and there is no mention of > > inverted > > > > > I have no doubt that all of Brents designs, and probably 99 % > > of > > > > the other designs out there on the > > > > > market could produce a boat that would pass the requirements > > > > > (including my own) > > > > ------------------ > > > > I have no doubt Brent Swain's designs can obtain EU certification. > > > > Yago could obtain it eventualy by altering the keel and deck :-) > > > > EU certification is not relevant outside the EU , > > > > on the other hand it is nice to know a boat you consider > > > > building will recover from an eventual capsize . > > > > ------------------ > > > > > In some respects, it would even have a negative effect on our > > boats > > > > > if we would tryx to comply: for example, not only the boat but > > also > > > > > the some of the equipment has to be certified, meaning a > > > > > brent-style bullet proof self-made hatch would need to be > > replaced > > > > > with a more flimsy commercial but certified product. > > > > ------------------ > > > > You must be joking :-) > > > > ------------------ > > > > > Most designers here in Europe are realistic and honest enough > > to > > > > > tell amateurs not to bother. Some will say that their designs > > are > > > > > RCD compliant - but careful, this does not mean anything else > > than > > > > > that basic stability and flooding calculations give results > > that > > > > > are within the required parameters,.. > > > > ------------------ > > > > Honnest designers adapt there designs according to > > > > the more stringend EU rules , > > > > as an example cause you must have miss't post 10260 : > > > > ------------------ > > > > Twin keels and twin rudders , cause I would > > > > love to keep the draft at 2' > > > > > > > > Why , cause this is the easyest way to be well > > > > within EU rules , it is as simple as that . > > > > > > > > I posted to more Files for you and Bert to see in > > > > http://tinyurl.com/clz8g , in Origamiboats2 : > > > > > > > > Files > Ben's Stuff > Options > > > > -JPBonTwinkeels.jpg > > > > twinkeels article by JP Brouns Nov 18, 2005 > > > > -NDrollover1.jpg > > > > NavalDesigner Stability pic Nov 18, 2005 > > > > -Présentation RAGTIME.pdf > > > > Ragtime PDF 99 KB Jan 22, 2006 > > > > -Schwertomane3.jpg > > > > Original Ragtime 342 KB Jan 22, 2006 > > > > > > > > You can see that the Original Ragtime draft was > > > > from 18cm to 1,5m , the speed was fenomenal , > > > > so was the upwind performance ,see the weight :-) > > > > > > > > Today Ragtime is offered with 0,70m draft and > > > > twin keels to be conform with EU regulations. > > > > > > > > We could consider a combination of keels and > > > > boards , but renewed studies by most architects > > > > in the EU , to design at the lowest cost for > > > > the best performance with twinkeelers replacing the > > > > integral centerboarders , show excellent performance > > > > with new low draft keels as you can see in Tilapia : > > > > http://www.buildingyourboat.com/tiki-browse_gallery.php? > > galleryId=6 > > > > ---------------------- > > > > > > > > > > The real difficulty is the preparation of the file. If you see > > that > > > > > even some smaller yards prefer to ask specialized agents to > > handle > > > > > that for them, and for a lot of money, you will understand that > > for > > > > > an amateur without the connections and experience this is > > probably > > > > > a royal pain in the ass, and quite expensive on top of that. > > > > > > > > > ....it is still not difficult enough to get the RCD... but > > again, > > > > > it is NOT REQUIRED if you build for yourself and do not sell > > > > > within the first 5 years. > > > > > > > > > > If in spite of that you really want to know what's in it, go to > > > > > http://www.rsg.be/ or > > > > > http://www.imci.org/languages/englishlanguage/index1.html > > > > > but don't forget to take a sixpack, something to eat and warm > > > > > closing, because you won't be coming back anytime soon ;-) > > > > > Gerd > > > > > The Yago project at http://www.justmueller.com/boats/ > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ ----- > > > > I suggest you take a sixpack , and if it is so easy as > > > > you claim it is , to simply obtain your EU certification :-) > > > > or shutt the fuck up about what EU designers should do or not :-) > > > > > > > > Sceptical Old Ben > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ ----- > > > > From: "Gerd" Date: Mon Jan 23, 2006 11:44 pm > > > > Subject: Re: books or dvds > > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III" > > wrote: > > > > > > I became a big [ really big ] fan of KAYAH , > > > > > > such a big fan I could not resist posting a pic :-) > > > > http://www.buildingyourboat.com/tiki-browse_gallery.php? > > galleryId=6 > > > > > > is where you gone find that Pic , > > > > > > > > > > Old Ben, i will stop following your links as more often than > > not they > > > > > take us to some unrelated stuff, and that is if we are lucky... > > > > > For my part, I would prefer you would stop posting that rubbish > > here > > > > > please - no offense meant. > > > > -------------- > > > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats- unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------- > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > a.. Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web. > > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------- > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > | 10344|10344|2006-02-01 22:56:09|jericoera|316 Stainless cleats|I could have made some, but opted to buy some 316 SS Cleats for the boat. I paid $139 US total for all four!! The service was great-the product is very high quality and I got it from Flounder Pounder marine. You can google them on the web. They have stuff mostly for Power Boats, but there is some stuff that will work readily for sailboats. These cleats by the way each weigh about six pounds and would be suitable for up to a 50 foot boat easily. It was a small splurge and in my opinion a great price. Carl M| 10345|10319|2006-02-02 00:16:22|Puck III|Re: Who needs a motor? - Tiny Bubbles -|Hi , thanks for the nice Link you posted : http://www.adventuresoftinybubbles.com those pretty pics sure show to anybody dreaming of some adventures that a good small boat could be all you need. Aint a small boat a fine starter project ?? You can always build or buy a larger boat later on . The Tiny Bubbles crew sure looks happy to me , so I will follow their adventures from now on ! Just imagine a 26'BS , easy transportable ,can do exactly the same voyage !!! With the added advantage of a twin keeler drying out upright. Just look at those splendid lagunas and please lett me know if going for the smallest draft possible is worth looking into ??? Old Ben --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "hollowayjoshua" wrote: > > Aloha again. Sorry about that. It was brought to my attention that > the tb link didn't come up... This should help: > > www.adventuresoftinybubbles.com > | 10346|10319|2006-02-02 07:24:08|Alex Christie|Re: Who needs a motor? - Tiny Bubbles -|I think a BS 26 with an 8 to 10 hp Briggs and Stratton eTek electric motor (around $300 USD?)-- regenerative capable -- would be an ideal for those who are almost swayed to go engineless, but want just a little bit of muscle for tight spots. I can't do electric economically for my big 36 footer, but were I to do a 26, I'd definitely give that electric motor a try. If you put regular engine beds, then if the experiment fails you can always swap in a small diesel. Make no mistake about it, Dove 3 would not have made it through the Northwest Passage on an electric motor and small set of batteries -- they needed that diesel for long range motoring. But for day sailing and maybe for tropical cruising (solar recharge) for someone who is already sailing without an engine, the BS 26 with an inboard electric would be a step up. There is plenty of muscle available in an electric motor, it's just that with the limitations of battery storage it can't be sustained for too long. Still, 100% torque at 0 RPM is something to ponder. Everything seems to hang on the question of fuel cell technology, but something is holding back its application in the real world. Alex On 1-Feb-06, at 9:15 PM, Puck III wrote: > Hi , thanks for the nice Link you posted : > http://www.adventuresoftinybubbles.com > those pretty pics sure show to anybody dreaming of > some adventures that a good small boat could be all you need. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 10347|10319|2006-02-02 10:53:09|Bruce Hallman|Re: Who needs a motor? - Tiny Bubbles -|> motor (around $300 USD?)-- Plus $ for fuel, gear, repairs, and space for storage, and tolerance of noise and risk of living with explosive fumes. [Not that I oppose motors, but being a devil's advocate...] Consider how my time in your finite life you must work in a cubicle to pay for that motor, and the cost of mortgage in the suburban house to live while you work to pay for that motor. What is the true cost of that motor? Compare that to how long you can live simply on a boat with $300+, reading a good book while waiting for favorable wind and tide when you don't need a motor, during your finite life.| 10348|10319|2006-02-02 11:08:27|Michael Casling|Re: Who needs a motor? - Tiny Bubbles -|I would also compare it to the times when I could not get out of my moorage. That would reduce my sailing quite dramaticaly. Also we would have missed the bridge openings many times. If you anchored in a place that always has enough wind to get you in and out when you need then a motor is not as necessary. But for me a motor is a requirement to get in and out, and get me there if there is no wind. A motor in conjunction with an autohelm is good for trolling towards the wind and waves. Michael ----- Original Message ----- From: Bruce Hallman To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 7:53 AM Subject: Re: [origamiboats] Re: Who needs a motor? - Tiny Bubbles - > motor (around $300 USD?)-- Plus $ for fuel, gear, repairs, and space for storage, and tolerance of noise and risk of living with explosive fumes. [Not that I oppose motors, but being a devil's advocate...] Consider how my time in your finite life you must work in a cubicle to pay for that motor, and the cost of mortgage in the suburban house to live while you work to pay for that motor. What is the true cost of that motor? Compare that to how long you can live simply on a boat with $300+, reading a good book while waiting for favorable wind and tide when you don't need a motor, during your finite life. To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com SPONSORED LINKS British columbia canada Vancouver island Yacht ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS a.. Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web. b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 10349|10319|2006-02-02 13:35:56|Alex Christie|Re: Who needs a motor? - Tiny Bubbles -|I know Brent has perfected the art of not using his motor, despite having it, waiting for several days to catch a breeze, and has saved untold amounts of fuel that way. For sailing in some areas going engineless could be lots of fun, but around here with all our swirly currents it's nice to have on hand. Absorbed Glass Mat (AGM) batteries, even under severe overcharge, give off fumes far below the maximum 4% specified for aircraft and enclosed spaces. Expensive batteries, but very efficient, long-lasting, will not leak even if the case is cracked because all the electrolyte is bound within a "mat". I found an excellent FAQ for batteries at: http://www.windsun.com/Batteries/Battery_FAQ.htm Alex On 2-Feb-06, at 7:53 AM, Bruce Hallman wrote: > >  motor (around $300 USD?)-- > > Plus $ for fuel, gear, repairs, and space for storage, and tolerance > of noise and risk of living with explosive fumes. > > [Not that I oppose motors, but being a devil's advocate...] > > Consider how my time in your finite life you must work in a cubicle to > pay for that motor, and the cost of mortgage in the suburban house to > live while you work to pay for that motor.  What is the true cost of > that motor? > > Compare that to how long you can live simply on a boat with $300+, > reading a good book while waiting for favorable wind and tide when you > don't need a motor, during your finite life. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 10350|10319|2006-02-02 14:48:02|jericoera|Re: Who needs a motor? - Tiny Bubbles -|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Alex Christie wrote: > I am actually hoping to keep my motor and battery arear 100 percent closed off from the main cabin and then well ventilate the engine well to the outside. Why breathe any fumes at all? Carl mcIntosh > I know Brent has perfected the art of not using his motor, despite > having it, waiting for several days to catch a breeze, and has saved > untold amounts of fuel that way. For sailing in some areas going > engineless could be lots of fun, but around here with all our swirly > currents it's nice to have on hand. > > Absorbed Glass Mat (AGM) batteries, even under severe overcharge, give > off fumes far below the maximum 4% specified for aircraft and enclosed > spaces. Expensive batteries, but very efficient, long-lasting, will > not leak even if the case is cracked because all the electrolyte is > bound within a "mat". > > I found an excellent FAQ for batteries at: > http://www.windsun.com/Batteries/Battery_FAQ.htm > > Alex > > > On 2-Feb-06, at 7:53 AM, Bruce Hallman wrote: > > > >  motor (around $300 USD?)-- > > > > Plus $ for fuel, gear, repairs, and space for storage, and tolerance > > of noise and risk of living with explosive fumes. > > > > [Not that I oppose motors, but being a devil's advocate...] > > > > Consider how my time in your finite life you must work in a cubicle to > > pay for that motor, and the cost of mortgage in the suburban house to > > live while you work to pay for that motor.  What is the true cost of > > that motor? > > > > Compare that to how long you can live simply on a boat with $300+, > > reading a good book while waiting for favorable wind and tide when you > > don't need a motor, during your finite life. > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > | 10351|10319|2006-02-02 19:08:48|Puck III|Re: Who needs a motor?|Hi Carl , hi Alex , I could not resists posting 2 pics , more on demand if anybody find it usefull . The First Album in Photos right here : -- Ben's Oars - Vaarboom + Aviron Chinois is where you will find them . Thousands of woman and man use that cheap little oar daily to move cargo and people in many harbors , to move people and cargo around . If it works on a Chinese Junk , I can't see why it should not work fine on a heavy BS . Combining a long wooden stick , the chinese part as a foldable extension wich can be made out of scrap metal , as a long oar with a hook and a " push-finger " ( yeah yeah yeah , I could not find a better word :-) sure is a fine tool . I do not remember the name of such a " vaarboom " but in Florida it is ofthen used for sailing the swallows . So Guys if you like it , download it and save the pic to build one on your computers , cause Ben's Oars arent really about the Topic :-) Alex , for you to judge , feel free to send that Album to the Bin anytime we need more space Old Ben --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "jericoera" wrote: > > Good advice by all. A heavy steel boat would not be much fun to use a > skulling oar with I don't suppose. The cost of an engine is less than > fixing a damaged boat that hits the rocks or another boat. > > A boat without a motor would likely smell better however. > > Carl M. > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "hollowayjoshua" > wrote: > > > > Aloha again. Sorry about that. It was brought to my attention that > > the tb link didn't come up... This should help: > > > > http://www.adventuresoftinybubbles.com > > > | 10352|10352|2006-02-02 19:13:46|SHANE ROTHWELL|Laminating steel with epoxy fibreglass|last time I checked the only way to stick anything to steel effectively was to weld it. sure, it needs paint to protect it but if that gets dammaged you can see whats what. "laminating" anything to steel is about as relyable as the "laminations" of penut butter & jelly in a sandwich. __________________________________________________________ Find your next car at http://autos.yahoo.ca| 10353|10352|2006-02-02 19:28:59|Alex Christie|Re: Laminating steel with epoxy fibreglass|Also, wouldn't the radically differing rates of expansion as one moves the hull through temperature changes simply cause the glass to shear from the metal, thereby giving you a 'glass/water/steel laminate if even the smallest hole or crack were made in the glass covering? West System, in their literature, said that even epoxy absorbs moisture over time (hopefully reaching a stable state), so this might have an effect too. I wonder, is the high build of regular epoxy then just flexible and sticky enough to not shear from the metal substrate? At what thickness does failure of the coating due to shearing forces begin to become possible? An interesting question. The other spot I wonder where it won't work is at the keel bottom edges -- how do you keep the 'glass from getting rubbed off badly there? Maybe if the epoxy sticks well enough you won't get wicking of moisture between the glass and steel? I dunno, anyone know about this? Alex| 10354|10354|2006-02-02 19:39:58|SHANE ROTHWELL|diesel engines|Have to admit I admire you guys who have the patience, guts and financing to even consider fuel cells etc. For me tho it's going to be diesel. simpler etc but I don't want to spend a lot of time and $$ to get it together. having done it before, the new mantra is "less boat building, more sailing" Having seen Gord Schnell's conversion of a 1.6 litre VW engine, the transfer plate he had to make up for bolting the gear box to & all that is impressive & damned nice work. but a lot of work & he is a much better mechanic than I. but have just learned that the standard reefer units off of trucks used to use Izuzu 2200cc engines (or is it a 2002cc?) as a standard, now its mitsibushi. As a result you can pick up the Isuzu for $4-500 with a transfer plate all done up... on the island they are very common. Isuzu also has a reputation for being good for parts. bit heavy but once the rush of getting on the water is over, who's in a hurry, besides, you have enuf guts with it to punch through most anything & they are naturally aspirated for long life __________________________________________________________ Find your next car at http://autos.yahoo.ca| 10355|10352|2006-02-02 19:51:14|Bruce Hallman|Re: Laminating steel with epoxy fibreglass|On 2/2/06, SHANE ROTHWELL wrote: > last time I checked the only way to stick anything to > steel effectively was to weld it. sure, it needs paint > to protect it but if that gets damaged you can see > whats what. Paint can be made to stick to steel. Isn't pigmented epoxy a type of really tough paint? Seems that embedding cloth in epoxy would improve the ability of the 'paint' to resist damage. A big problem with paint films on steel occurs when they are too thin. The fiberglass fabric would certainly give assurance that the film was thick.| 10356|10319|2006-02-02 20:09:32|tom|Re: Who needs a motor?|Hey Old Ben now theres a funny thought an oar instead of an engine on my BS26 I think not ----- Original Message ----- From: "Puck III" To: Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 4:08 PM Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Who needs a motor? > Hi Carl , hi Alex , I could not resists posting 2 pics , > more on demand if anybody find it usefull . > > The First Album in Photos right here : > -- Ben's Oars - > Vaarboom + Aviron Chinois > is where you will find them . > > Thousands of woman and man use that cheap little oar > daily to move cargo and people in many harbors , > to move people and cargo around . > If it works on a Chinese Junk , I can't see > why it should not work fine on a heavy BS . > > Combining a long wooden stick , > the chinese part as a foldable extension wich can be > made out of scrap metal , > as a long oar with a hook and a " push-finger " > ( yeah yeah yeah , I could not find a better word :-) > sure is a fine tool . > > I do not remember the name of such a " vaarboom " > but in Florida it is ofthen used for sailing the swallows . > > So Guys if you like it , download it and save the pic > to build one on your computers , cause Ben's Oars > arent really about the Topic :-) > > Alex , for you to judge , feel free to send that > Album to the Bin anytime we need more space > > Old Ben > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "jericoera" > wrote: >> >> Good advice by all. A heavy steel boat would not be much fun to use > a >> skulling oar with I don't suppose. The cost of an engine is less > than >> fixing a damaged boat that hits the rocks or another boat. >> >> A boat without a motor would likely smell better however. >> >> Carl M. >> >> --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "hollowayjoshua" >> wrote: >> > >> > Aloha again. Sorry about that. It was brought to my attention > that >> > the tb link didn't come up... This should help: >> > >> > http://www.adventuresoftinybubbles.com >> > >> > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > | 10357|10352|2006-02-02 20:18:18|cirejay|Re: Laminating steel with epoxy fibreglass|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, SHANE ROTHWELL wrote: > "laminating" anything to steel is about as relyable as > the "laminations" of penut butter & jelly in a > sandwich. If you use crunchy it makes a great non-skid:-) eric S/V Nebaras| 10358|10319|2006-02-02 20:25:08|cirejay|Re: Who needs a motor?|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "tom" wrote: > > Hey Old Ben now theres a funny thought an oar instead of an engine on my > BS26 > I think not Well, you might like the idea and I sure as heck wouldn't want to do it but there is nothing funny about it. people have been doing it for a gazillion years. eric S/V Nebaras| 10359|10319|2006-02-02 21:03:07|Bruce Hallman|Re: Who needs a motor?|> people have been doing it for a gazillion years. During that same gazillion years, especially with the bigger motorless boats and ships, people also have used kedging with kedge anchors to move vessels around. It still works today too.| 10361|10319|2006-02-02 21:24:38|Puck III|Re: Who needs a motor?|Hi Tom , not instead , just as an handy extra little tool . I will post some pics how it is most used in Florida , I sail much single handed , my standard aluminum pushfinger , has a nice extra feature !! I attach my robe on it , push the finger around any attachment point on a boy , or around anything in an harbour , AND , I recover my robe with ease :-) Just imagine how easy that really is . I would not do without . My foredeck and cockpit are as high above the water , as on a BS 26' , on a larger boat you stand even higher when on deck . Just tell me how you will handle such a situation single handed , tight space , 25knot wind comming from where-ever. Every time I use it now , especialy when passing a sealock singlehanded , I praise the Inventor . We realy have some larger differences in waterheights on the Schelde . My robe recovery system and my bow thruster are my best tools to do that with easy :-) I still did not find the correct name for a pushfinger with an integrated robe recovery system . When found I let you all know , and post a pic :-) Old Ben --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "tom" wrote: > > Hey Old Ben now theres a funny thought an oar instead of an engine on my > BS26 > I think not > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Puck III" > To: > Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 4:08 PM > Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Who needs a motor? > > > > Hi Carl , hi Alex , I could not resists posting 2 pics , > > more on demand if anybody find it usefull . > > > > The First Album in Photos right here : > > -- Ben's Oars - > > Vaarboom + Aviron Chinois > > is where you will find them . > > > > Thousands of woman and man use that cheap little oar > > daily to move cargo and people in many harbors , > > to move people and cargo around . > > If it works on a Chinese Junk , I can't see > > why it should not work fine on a heavy BS . > > > > Combining a long wooden stick , > > the chinese part as a foldable extension wich can be > > made out of scrap metal , > > as a long oar with a hook and a " push-finger " > > ( yeah yeah yeah , I could not find a better word :-) > > sure is a fine tool . > > > > I do not remember the name of such a " vaarboom " > > but in Florida it is ofthen used for sailing the swallows . > > > > So Guys if you like it , download it and save the pic > > to build one on your computers , cause Ben's Oars > > arent really about the Topic :-) > > > > Alex , for you to judge , feel free to send that > > Album to the Bin anytime we need more space > > > > Old Ben > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "jericoera" > > wrote: > >> > >> Good advice by all. A heavy steel boat would not be much fun to use > > a > >> skulling oar with I don't suppose. The cost of an engine is less > > than > >> fixing a damaged boat that hits the rocks or another boat. > >> > >> A boat without a motor would likely smell better however. > >> > >> Carl M. > >> > >> --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "hollowayjoshua" > >> wrote: > >> > > >> > Aloha again. Sorry about that. It was brought to my attention > > that > >> > the tb link didn't come up... This should help: > >> > > >> > http://www.adventuresoftinybubbles.com > >> > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > | 10362|10319|2006-02-03 00:52:19|jericoera|Re: Who needs a motor?Thanks Ben!!!|Ben, maybe you could post a website if there is one associated to that skulling type oar. the photo was good but the writing darn small to try and read. i'd like to either track down the article or website so i can read it in proper size. Great concept and if you have to have a pole on board anyway, why not have one with a blade so you can skull the boat around. Carl McIntosh| 10363|10319|2006-02-03 05:38:05|Puck III|Re: Who needs a motor?Thanks Ben!!!|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "jericoera" wrote: > > Ben, maybe you could post a website if there is one associated to that > skulling type oar. the photo was good but the writing darn small to > try and read. i'd like to either track down the article or website so > i can read it in proper size. > > Great concept and if you have to have a pole on board anyway, why not > have one with a blade so you can skull the boat around. > > Carl McIntosh ------------ Carl I hope this Link is a worthy option . http://tinyurl.com/8arec I can read the text clearly , can everybody ? No websites in the days it was published ,sorry that system is a gizillion years old . I can state that when I personaly use it , the net output is 1 Old Donkey Power output minimum !!!! The name of the designer is in the article , so anyone can Google Up that French Naval Architect :-) I am still looking to find the wording for 'vaarboom ' sailing tree sure aint good enough.... Same translation problem for the ' Pushfinger ' combined with a hook and a rope recovery system..... I need some assistance here . Old Ben| 10364|10319|2006-02-03 09:24:59|Bruce Hallman|Re: Who needs a motor?Thanks Ben!!!|Skulling is sometimes spelt 'sculling' and also known by the word 'yuloh', and Googling those two words retrieves several good websites. Famously, there was an article in Small Boat Journal magazine, reprinted here: http://www.simplicityboats.com/ScullYulohaboat.htm > skulling type oar. | 10365|10319|2006-02-03 09:44:20|Gerd|Re: Who needs a motor?Thanks Ben!!!|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Hallman wrote: > > Skulling is sometimes spelt 'sculling' and also known by the word > 'yuloh', and Googling those two words retrieves several good websites. Sculling Oars were obligatory equipment on boats in France, some 20 years ago. Don't know about today, but even before I arrived in France I remember seing lots of Harle designed, engineless plywood boats from the Glenans Sailing school sailing and sculling around the harbours in sourthern England. On my own 10 m, 7 ton boat I had no engine, just a british seagull outboard that never worked when you needed it, and I did several years of saling school with it... quite often that was real SCARY..!! ;-) It's possible, but requires very careful planning of every move and every crusing plan and destination - which we should do anyway, because engines DO fail occasionally. Later, when flying ultralights, it was much the same story, while we were building our own rigs with recuperated engines, solo's, 2-cv citroens and anything that we could lay our hands on, we always flew high and with one eye on the lookout for a "cow" - meaning a meadow to touch down in as soon as the engine starts to sputter. Later, when we all had highly reliable and expensive Rotax engines, we got careless , flew low over forests and water,and when those engines failed we were really in trouble and accidents did happen. Gerd| 10366|10319|2006-02-03 10:14:29|Carl Volkwein|Re: Who needs a motor?Thanks Ben!!!|I can't read it either, but the idea is to use a kind-of-a figure eight patern stroke, with a notch cut in the transom instead of an actual oar lock. We used to do something like this just holding the paddle in our hand when I was raft guiding on 12 to 16 foot rubber rafts, you just have to try it to see how well it works, paddling from one side you have to put in a rudder at the end of each stroke or the raft would not go staiight, but with the figure eight stroke you eliminate that problem. also it was an "in the water" recovery, so instead of "stroke, rudder, pull the paddle out, and repeate" you put the paddle in the water, and didn't take it out untill you were done, when you got to the end of the "figure eight" you were back where you started. I hope this explanation clears up some confusion. Carl from W.V. Puck III wrote: --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "jericoera" wrote: > > Ben, maybe you could post a website if there is one associated to that > skulling type oar. the photo was good but the writing darn small to > try and read. i'd like to either track down the article or website so > i can read it in proper size. > > Great concept and if you have to have a pole on board anyway, why not > have one with a blade so you can skull the boat around. > > Carl McIntosh ------------ Carl I hope this Link is a worthy option . http://tinyurl.com/8arec I can read the text clearly , can everybody ? No websites in the days it was published ,sorry that system is a gizillion years old . I can state that when I personaly use it , the net output is 1 Old Donkey Power output minimum !!!! The name of the designer is in the article , so anyone can Google Up that French Naval Architect :-) I am still looking to find the wording for 'vaarboom ' sailing tree sure aint good enough.... Same translation problem for the ' Pushfinger ' combined with a hook and a rope recovery system..... I need some assistance here . Old Ben To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com SPONSORED LINKS British columbia canada Vancouver island Yacht --------------------------------- YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. --------------------------------- --------------------------------- Brings words and photos together (easily) with PhotoMail - it's free and works with Yahoo! Mail. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 10367|10319|2006-02-03 11:06:01|Puck III|Re: Who needs a motor?+ Oars|Hi Carl , hi Bruce , hi Gerd ,hi All thanks for your contributions --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Carl Volkwein wrote: > > I can't read it either, but the idea is to use a kind-of-a figure eight patern stroke, with a notch cut in the transom instead of an actual oar lock. -------------------- Carl you have me worried , when you say ' I can't read it either ' do you mean it is cause the pic is to small or cause of the French http://tinyurl.com/8arec the pic with the funny drawings are selfexplaining enough if it appears large enough -------------------- We used to do something like this just holding the paddle in our hand when I was raft guiding on 12 to 16 foot rubber rafts, you just have to try it to see how well it works, paddling from one side you have to put in a rudder at the end of each stroke or the raft would not go staiight, but with the figure eight stroke you eliminate that problem. also it was an "in the water" recovery, so instead of "stroke, rudder, pull the paddle out, and repeate" you put the paddle in the water, and didn't take it out untill you were done, when you got to the end of the "figure eight" you were back where you started. > > I hope this explanation clears up some confusion. > > Carl from W.V. --------------------------- --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Hallman wrote: > > Skulling is sometimes spelt 'sculling' and also known by the word > 'yuloh', and Googling those two words retrieves several good websites. > > Famously, there was an article in Small Boat Journal magazine, reprinted here: > > http://www.simplicityboats.com/ScullYulohaboat.htm > > > skulling type oar. Bruce that is a Great Link , thanks --------------------------------- --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Gerd" wrote: > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Hallman wrote: > > > > Skulling is sometimes spelt 'sculling' and also known by the word > > 'yuloh', and Googling those two words retrieves several good > websites. > > Sculling Oars were obligatory equipment on boats in France, some 20 > years ago. Don't know about today, but even before I arrived in > France I remember seing lots of Harle designed, engineless plywood > boats from > the Glenans Sailing school sailing and sculling around the harbours > in sourthern England. > On my own 10 m, 7 ton boat I had no engine, just a british seagull > outboard that never worked when you needed it, and I did several > years of saling school with it... quite often that was real > SCARY..!! ;-) It's possible, but requires very careful planning of > every move and every crusing plan and destination - which we should > do anyway, because engines DO fail occasionally. > Gerd --------------------------------- Hi Gerd ,you explained exactly how it was learned in the Glenan school I assume the pic about the Chinese scull or skull is self explaining enough for all to see the Chinese scull can be a usefull cheap little tool . Gerd , please help me out with the ' pushfinger ' and ' vaarboom ' you may have a link or a pic . --------------------------------- Hi All that contributed , thanks for contributing :-) Please delete all mentions of Thanks Ben , my fault I responded to it without deleting it in the first place 1 thing is sure , if we all contribute we will turn this fine Group into the best Group you can join . Any Guy and any Girl should be welcomed equaly :-) Please help me out to find the wording for the standard Aluminum 'pushfinger ' combined with a hook that includes the rope recovery system . Seriously , I have it on board so I cant take a pic right now , I think there was an article in UK PBO about it . It is such a help on board , that I can't miss it anymore , you just have to trye it yourself Old Ben --------------------------------- > Puck III wrote: > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "jericoera" wrote: > > > > Ben, maybe you could post a website if there is one associated to > that > > skulling type oar. the photo was good but the writing darn small to > > try and read. i'd like to either track down the article or website so > > i can read it in proper size. > > > > Great concept and if you have to have a pole on board anyway, why not > > have one with a blade so you can skull the boat around. > > > > Carl McIntosh > ------------ > > Carl I hope this Link is a worthy option . > http://tinyurl.com/8arec > I can read the text clearly , can everybody ? > > No websites in the days it was published ,sorry > that system is a gizillion years old . > > I can state that when I personaly use it , > the net output is 1 Old Donkey Power output minimum !!!! > > The name of the designer is in the article , > so anyone can Google Up that French Naval Architect :-) > > I am still looking to find the wording for 'vaarboom ' > sailing tree sure aint good enough.... > > Same translation problem for the ' Pushfinger ' > combined with a hook and a rope recovery system..... > > I need some assistance here . > > Old Ben > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats- unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > SPONSORED LINKS > British columbia canada Vancouver island Yacht > > --------------------------------- > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > > Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > > --------------------------------- > > > > > > --------------------------------- > Brings words and photos together (easily) with > PhotoMail - it's free and works with Yahoo! Mail. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > | 10368|10319|2006-02-04 01:47:46|jericoera|Re: Who needs a motor?+ Oars|I couldn't tell if it was french or english, the font was incredibly small though i get the gist of it by the drawing Carl M. --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III" wrote: > > Hi Carl , hi Bruce , hi Gerd ,hi All thanks for your contributions > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Carl Volkwein > wrote: > > > > I can't read it either, but the idea is to use a kind-of-a figure > eight patern stroke, with a notch cut in the transom instead of an > actual oar lock. > -------------------- > Carl you have me worried , when you say ' I can't read it either ' > do you mean it is cause the pic is to small or cause of the French > http://tinyurl.com/8arec the pic with the funny drawings are > selfexplaining enough if it appears large enough > -------------------- > We used to do something like this just holding the paddle in our > hand when I was raft guiding on 12 to 16 foot rubber rafts, you just > have to try it to see how well it works, paddling from one side you > have to put in a rudder at the end of each stroke or the raft would > not go staiight, but with the figure eight stroke you eliminate that > problem. also it was an "in the water" recovery, so instead > of "stroke, rudder, pull the paddle out, and repeate" you put the > paddle in the water, and didn't take it out untill you were done, > when you got to the end of the "figure eight" you were back where you > started. > > > > I hope this explanation clears up some confusion. > > > > Carl from W.V. > --------------------------- > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Hallman wrote: > > > > Skulling is sometimes spelt 'sculling' and also known by the word > > 'yuloh', and Googling those two words retrieves several good > websites. > > > > Famously, there was an article in Small Boat Journal magazine, > reprinted here: > > > > http://www.simplicityboats.com/ScullYulohaboat.htm > > > > > skulling type oar. > > Bruce that is a Great Link , thanks > --------------------------------- > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Gerd" wrote: > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Hallman wrote: > > > > > > Skulling is sometimes spelt 'sculling' and also known by the word > > > 'yuloh', and Googling those two words retrieves several good > > websites. > > > > Sculling Oars were obligatory equipment on boats in France, some > 20 > > years ago. Don't know about today, but even before I arrived in > > France I remember seing lots of Harle designed, engineless plywood > > boats from > > the Glenans Sailing school sailing and sculling around the harbours > > in sourthern England. > > On my own 10 m, 7 ton boat I had no engine, just a british seagull > > outboard that never worked when you needed it, and I did several > > years of saling school with it... quite often that was real > > SCARY..!! ;-) It's possible, but requires very careful planning of > > every move and every crusing plan and destination - which we should > > do anyway, because engines DO fail occasionally. > > Gerd > --------------------------------- > Hi Gerd ,you explained exactly how it was learned in the Glenan school > I assume the pic about the Chinese scull or skull is self > explaining enough for all to see the Chinese scull can be > a usefull cheap little tool . > Gerd , please help me out with the ' pushfinger ' and ' vaarboom ' > you may have a link or a pic . > --------------------------------- > Hi All that contributed , thanks for contributing :-) > Please delete all mentions of Thanks Ben , > my fault I responded to it without deleting it in the first place > > 1 thing is sure , if we all contribute we will turn this > fine Group into the best Group you can join . > > Any Guy and any Girl should be welcomed equaly :-) > > Please help me out to find the wording for the > standard Aluminum 'pushfinger ' combined with a hook > that includes the rope recovery system . > Seriously , I have it on board so I cant take a pic > right now , I think there was an article in UK PBO > about it . > > It is such a help on board , that I can't miss > it anymore , you just have to trye it yourself > > Old Ben > --------------------------------- > > Puck III wrote: > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "jericoera" > wrote: > > > > > > Ben, maybe you could post a website if there is one associated to > > that > > > skulling type oar. the photo was good but the writing darn small > to > > > try and read. i'd like to either track down the article or > website so > > > i can read it in proper size. > > > > > > Great concept and if you have to have a pole on board anyway, why > not > > > have one with a blade so you can skull the boat around. > > > > > > Carl McIntosh > > ------------ > > > > Carl I hope this Link is a worthy option . > > http://tinyurl.com/8arec > > I can read the text clearly , can everybody ? > > > > No websites in the days it was published ,sorry > > that system is a gizillion years old . > > > > I can state that when I personaly use it , > > the net output is 1 Old Donkey Power output minimum !!!! > > > > The name of the designer is in the article , > > so anyone can Google Up that French Naval Architect :-) > > > > I am still looking to find the wording for 'vaarboom ' > > sailing tree sure aint good enough.... > > > > Same translation problem for the ' Pushfinger ' > > combined with a hook and a rope recovery system..... > > > > I need some assistance here . > > > > Old Ben > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats- > unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > SPONSORED LINKS > > British columbia canada Vancouver island Yacht > > > > --------------------------------- > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > > > > > Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web. > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > Service. > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > Brings words and photos together (easily) with > > PhotoMail - it's free and works with Yahoo! Mail. > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > | 10369|10319|2006-02-04 11:38:59|Bruce Hallman|Re: Who needs a motor?+ Oars|On 2/3/06, jericoera wrote: > the gist of it by the drawing Yulohs work on the same principle as a propeller, except that they oscillate instead of rotate.| 10370|10319|2006-02-04 21:36:53|jericoera|Re: Who needs a motor?+ Oars|Thanks much, I'll do some more research. I suspect a motor will likely be necessary for cruising though the Farell's lived for years without one. Carl M --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Hallman wrote: > > On 2/3/06, jericoera wrote: > > the gist of it by the drawing > > Yulohs work on the same principle as a propeller, except that they > oscillate instead of rotate. > | 10371|10371|2006-02-05 07:30:37|Puck III|A Photo directly with the message !|Hi Guys , who is interested to find a pic with the message ?? An interesting idea ?? Just to explore the options open to us , I join a repost from another Yahoo Group where that is on the Topic right now . Just wondering if anybody has an interest :-) Old Ben -------------------- --- In proa_file@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III" wrote: > > --- In proa_file@yahoogroups.com, "Gary Dierking" wrote: > > > > Yes, yes, yes. > > Anything that allows us to display a photo or drawing within the > > message will be a vast improvement. > > > > Gary > > > > > > > > > I am looking at possibilities for moving Proa File International > to a > > > new host. There are several reasons for this: > > > > > 2: The Yahoo format is not working for us anymore, both in terms > of > > > the organization of messages and in the handling of files and > photos; > > > it is extremely clumsy. > > --------------------------------- > Hi Gary , yes yes yes I say , like you :-) > a pic allong with the message !!! nothing is more simple :-) > totaly free in this Group , right here ... hehehe....... > HOW ??? please have a look at it :-) > as usual nothing new ( almost 2 year old now) see in : > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/shantyboat/ > > message : 1609 Fw: Houseboat Idea > ----- Original Message ----- From: Doug Traylor > Subject: Houseboat Idea What do... Doug Traylor > kellyt77879 Feb 17, 2004 2:01 am > --------------------------------- > > You will find a perfect explaination how to massage > the Yahoo pop up adverts that pay for the Groups > and there you are :-) > > On the other hand , some people would call that > cheap smart way of adding the pics directly to the message > Hacking :-) , NO WAY , I would encourage anybody is such > an activity !!!! > > There is an online rumor , one of our Groups members > zachdour ( see is Yahoo profile on the last page of the members) > was preparing a DEMO right here . > Zachdour is a cautious & Naughty caracter , > I wonder if he will not use an alias and a Polish IP > to confuse us all :-) > > Zachdour sure is scared to be banned , so he may wait > to receive some encouragement from the members . > > I officialy state I know Nick only casualy , > so I can and will not take any responsability > for what that caracter would dare to post !!!! > > Nick is a well known Actor with a Hollywood history ! > I talked to much allready . > > Nice Houseboat pic allong with that message :-) > 2 years old post !!! > Do we ask Nick to ask his friend for a Demo ??? > > Never Hacking...... Old Ben :-) | 10372|10319|2006-02-05 07:55:22|sae140|Re: Who needs a motor?+ Oars|Another consideration of whether to fit an engine or not relates to your intended cruising grounds. If you plan on sailing anywhere near commercial traffic lanes, then a motor might just save your life, or at least a spot fine or two. For those in Europe, it might be worth a reminder that when navigating in VTS/TSS areas, all vessels are obliged to maintain a minimum of 3 knots (on pain of spot fines), so if the wind is light .... Likewise, the vessel's heading (regardless of track) MUST be at right-angles to the lane, or in official jargon - "as nearly as practicable at right angles to the general direction of traffic flow." So if your course is into the wind, then you're gonna have to burn some diesel to get across both legally and safely. Wouldn't much fancy stirring the water with a yuloh with a half-million ton tanker bearing down at 20 knots ... (scenario worthy of a cartoon ?) Colin --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "jericoera" wrote: > > Thanks much, I'll do some more research. I suspect a motor will likely > be necessary for cruising though the Farell's lived for years without > one. > > Carl M > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Hallman wrote: > > > > On 2/3/06, jericoera wrote: > > > the gist of it by the drawing > > > > Yulohs work on the same principle as a propeller, except that they > > oscillate instead of rotate. > > > | 10373|10319|2006-02-05 08:05:08|Carl Volkwein|Re: Who needs a motor?+ Oars|Ok, So wich can develope more power, youhl or bahama type skulling oar? i''m real impressed with both, although the youhl looks harder to master. Carl from W.V. jericoera wrote: Thanks much, I'll do some more research. I suspect a motor will likely be necessary for cruising though the Farell's lived for years without one. Carl M --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Hallman wrote: > > On 2/3/06, jericoera wrote: > > the gist of it by the drawing > > Yulohs work on the same principle as a propeller, except that they > oscillate instead of rotate. > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com SPONSORED LINKS British columbia canada Vancouver island Yacht --------------------------------- YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. --------------------------------- --------------------------------- Relax. Yahoo! Mail virus scanning helps detect nasty viruses! [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 10374|10374|2006-02-05 11:27:02|tom|who need a motor|Hello All I would have to say if an inboard engine is not in the budget or you just don't want one, at least have an outboard on a bracket could keep you out of some very unconformable situations. It doesn't take much there light and relatively inexpensive and with the proper maintenance will give many years of service. Yes they are a pain in the A-- at times but so are inboards. Don't get me wrong an inboard diesel if far better but very expensive. Let me tell you a short story about last weekend, A friend of mine bought a Yankee 28 sailboat on eBay and it was in Dana Point and had to be moved, So I went with him to check it out and it was ok to sail but the inboard needed much work so we mounted a bracket on the transom and the next weekend took my little 6hp Johnson and headed to Sanabarbara witch is about a 120 miles up the coast line. The seas were choppy and the wind was fickle at times we had no wind and getting hit by 6-7 foot steep waves, very uncomfortable ride so we motor sailed at about 3 knots and it was a lot better than being slammed around going nowhere. Anyway we motor sailed about 8 hours the whole trip and it took 45 hours to make are destination, without the engine it would have taken at least another day to make it. To me that little motor was worth its weight in gold at the time. Tom [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]| 10375|10374|2006-02-05 12:01:12|Gerd|Re: who need a motor|Tom, I have used outboards like that for years, but never was really happy with it - it's good if there is nothing else, or if you are really strapped for cash, but it's usually not very nice. If you have a transom hung rudder you have to mount the engine off center, which lifts it out when motorsailing on the other bord, and even if centered, in any sort of pitching movement it will come closer to the surface or lift completely out, and just the sound of that is enough to give me a toothache.. In spite of that I might do this again on my boat now if I don't find a really cheap good inboard, but I am still looking into the possibility to mount the outboard inside a well, somewhere under the main hatch / bridgedeck, If I an find a good way to lift and to ventilate it, and also to close the well at the bottom with the engine up, and to be able to pump the well empty. This might be a good solution, clean hull, no resistance, easy, watertight and cheap to install, service ashore, when it's dead throw over the side and drop another one in the well ... ;-) Anybody has any practical experience with that? Gerd the Yago Project at http://www.justmueller.com/boats/| 10376|10374|2006-02-05 12:58:24|kendall|Re: who need a motor|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Gerd" wrote: > > Tom, I have used outboards like that for years, but never was really > happy with it - it's good if there is nothing else, or if you are > really strapped for cash, but it's usually not very nice. If you > have a transom hung rudder you have to mount the engine off center, > which lifts it out when motorsailing on the other bord, and even if > centered, in any sort of pitching movement it will come closer to > the surface or lift completely out, and just the sound of that is > enough to give me a toothache.. > > In spite of that I might do this again on my boat now if I don't > find a really cheap good inboard, but I am still looking into the > possibility to mount the outboard inside a well, somewhere under the > main hatch / bridgedeck, If I an find a good way to lift and to > ventilate it, and also to close the well at the bottom with the > engine up, and to be able to pump the well empty. This might be a > good solution, clean hull, no resistance, easy, watertight and cheap > to install, service ashore, when it's dead throw over the side and > drop another one in the well ... ;-) > > Anybody has any practical experience with that? > > Gerd > the Yago Project at http://www.justmueller.com/boats/ > I think it was columbia, and the 'privateer' that had outboards in wells that looked (when on the hard) to be inboards, I know the privateer did, it had a cutout in the rudder for the outboard, and supposedly handled as well as an inboard. Myself, if I were going with an outboard, I'd like to be able to use the outboard to it's full potential, which means being able to turn it and add a slight bit more maneuverability to the boat, which calls for either a large well or a transom mount, if I need to bump the stern over a ways, it's easy to crank the outboard a bit and let it push me sideways, once I know what point the boat is going to pivot on I can take that into account on tight maneuvers. advantages/disadvantages I see to an outboard are that it takes less room, but puts more weight at the stern, where it will have more effect unless mounted in a more centrally located well, it can add to maneuvering ability, easier to work on just pull it out and take it home or drop it off. But they are harder to find parts for in some cases, but certain dedicated marine inboards have the same problems with parts availability. repowering is MUCH easier, unbolt and slap on the new one. They are more likely to be stolen, but unless you like everything looking nice new and shiny, camoflage works, I had a very sweet 50 horse ouboard on a small power boat, and there was a serious rash of thefts in the area, 15 or 20 motors swiped, I took the cover off an old beat to crap johnson 35 horse and put it on my new outboard, slapped some white latex paint on the lower end, and never had anyone mess with it, it was too ugly and too 'old' looking. with an outboard it is feasable to carry a spare, not too easy with an inboard, also, with the outboard you have a lot of interior room freed up for other niceties, and 'gotta-haves' but outboards also limit the electrical power you can generate easily (unless you do a few small mods) Also, when sailing, you can pull it right out of the water and get far less drag than even the best inboard setup. and, if you bring a dink with you, you'll generally want an outboard for that anyway, so you may as well use it since you have it. I have given a lot of thought to outboard vs inboard power, and while I don't realy LIKE outboards, I like some of the advantages they have, and am thinking of going that way with my Triton. Ken| 10377|10377|2006-02-05 14:31:47|prairiemaidca|Cheap diesel.|Hi all; If someone is looking for a real deal on a V.W. 1.6 litre engine I still have a fully rebuilt one here for sale. Are there places that will not allow you to enter under sail?? Could be a major hassel for an engineless vessel... Martin... (Praire Maid)| 10378|10374|2006-02-05 14:46:23|tom|Re: who need a motor|Hello Gerd Most the boats Ive had the motor mount was offset to clear the rudder, I never had any problem when the boat healed motorsailing, usually if there enough wind on the main to make you heel over the motor is slowing you down. The boat pitching is a problem but if you can get a 25 inch long shaft on an adjustable bracket you can usually get it deep enough to eliminate the problem, We had a fixed bracket 17 inches off water with 20 inch shaft motor and it didn't work so good in the chop finally we moved everything heavy in the boat to the stern and we both sat in back of cockpit and then it worked ok as long as you hit the waves at about 40% angle. Ive never seen a forward engine well like you're mentioning but I would imagine it would work provided you could get enough ventilation to it so it doesn't die from its own exhaust fumes. If I was building a larger boat like yours I would opt for an inboard, there's so many niceties you can run from inboard, AC,hot water, refrigeration ect. all at the turn of a key. I think I would make it ready for an inboard and then use an outboard on a bracket till the sweet deal comes along, then it would be easy to install. If you build a engine well up forward and you don't like it then it would be a major project to go back to inboard Tom ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gerd" To: Sent: Sunday, February 05, 2006 8:57 AM Subject: [origamiboats] Re: who need a motor > Tom, I have used outboards like that for years, but never was really > happy with it - it's good if there is nothing else, or if you are > really strapped for cash, but it's usually not very nice. If you > have a transom hung rudder you have to mount the engine off center, > which lifts it out when motorsailing on the other bord, and even if > centered, in any sort of pitching movement it will come closer to > the surface or lift completely out, and just the sound of that is > enough to give me a toothache.. > > In spite of that I might do this again on my boat now if I don't > find a really cheap good inboard, but I am still looking into the > possibility to mount the outboard inside a well, somewhere under the > main hatch / bridgedeck, If I an find a good way to lift and to > ventilate it, and also to close the well at the bottom with the > engine up, and to be able to pump the well empty. This might be a > good solution, clean hull, no resistance, easy, watertight and cheap > to install, service ashore, when it's dead throw over the side and > drop another one in the well ... ;-) > > Anybody has any practical experience with that? > > Gerd > the Yago Project at http://www.justmueller.com/boats/ > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > | 10379|10377|2006-02-05 14:51:29|Courtney Thomas|Re: Cheap diesel.|Where is it please, and how much ? Reply off-group, if you prefer. Thank you, Courtney prairiemaidca wrote: > Hi all; If someone is looking for a real deal on a V.W. 1.6 litre > engine I still have a fully rebuilt one here for sale. Are there > places that will not allow you to enter under sail?? Could be a major > hassel for an engineless vessel... Martin... (Praire Maid) > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > | 10380|10377|2006-02-05 14:59:18|Carl Nostrand|Re: Cheap diesel.|Hello Martin, Were are you Paraire Maid? I'm up in Alaska, but have a cuz in AZ. Carl Nostrand On Feb 5, 2006, at 10:31 AM, prairiemaidca wrote: > Hi all; If someone is looking for a real deal on a V.W. 1.6 litre > engine I still have a fully rebuilt one here for sale. Are there > places that will not allow you to enter under sail?? Could be a major > hassel for an engineless vessel... Martin... (Praire Maid) > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > | 10381|10374|2006-02-05 16:42:38|brentswain38|Re: who need a motor|Always put in engine mounts , exhuast outlet , skeg cooling and stern tube in the building proccess, while it is still easy, so the option will remain open.You will probably want a diesel eventually after the education session. Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "kendall" wrote: > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Gerd" wrote: > > > > Tom, I have used outboards like that for years, but never was really > > happy with it - it's good if there is nothing else, or if you are > > really strapped for cash, but it's usually not very nice. If you > > have a transom hung rudder you have to mount the engine off center, > > which lifts it out when motorsailing on the other bord, and even if > > centered, in any sort of pitching movement it will come closer to > > the surface or lift completely out, and just the sound of that is > > enough to give me a toothache.. > > > > In spite of that I might do this again on my boat now if I don't > > find a really cheap good inboard, but I am still looking into the > > possibility to mount the outboard inside a well, somewhere under the > > main hatch / bridgedeck, If I an find a good way to lift and to > > ventilate it, and also to close the well at the bottom with the > > engine up, and to be able to pump the well empty. This might be a > > good solution, clean hull, no resistance, easy, watertight and cheap > > to install, service ashore, when it's dead throw over the side and > > drop another one in the well ... ;-) > > > > Anybody has any practical experience with that? > > > > Gerd > > the Yago Project at http://www.justmueller.com/boats/ > > > > > I think it was columbia, and the 'privateer' that had outboards in > wells that looked (when on the hard) to be inboards, I know the > privateer did, it had a cutout in the rudder for the outboard, and > supposedly handled as well as an inboard. Myself, if I were going with > an outboard, I'd like to be able to use the outboard to it's full > potential, which means being able to turn it and add a slight bit more > maneuverability to the boat, which calls for either a large well or a > transom mount, if I need to bump the stern over a ways, it's easy to > crank the outboard a bit and let it push me sideways, once I know what > point the boat is going to pivot on I can take that into account on > tight maneuvers. > > advantages/disadvantages I see to an outboard are that it takes less > room, but puts more weight at the stern, where it will have more > effect unless mounted in a more centrally located well, it can add to > maneuvering ability, easier to work on just pull it out and take it > home or drop it off. But they are harder to find parts for in some > cases, but certain dedicated marine inboards have the same problems > with parts availability. repowering is MUCH easier, unbolt and slap on > the new one. They are more likely to be stolen, but unless you like > everything looking nice new and shiny, camoflage works, I had a very > sweet 50 horse ouboard on a small power boat, and there was a serious > rash of thefts in the area, 15 or 20 motors swiped, I took the cover > off an old beat to crap johnson 35 horse and put it on my new > outboard, slapped some white latex paint on the lower end, and never > had anyone mess with it, it was too ugly and too 'old' looking. with > an outboard it is feasable to carry a spare, not too easy with an > inboard, also, with the outboard you have a lot of interior room freed > up for other niceties, and 'gotta-haves' but outboards also limit the > electrical power you can generate easily (unless you do a few small mods) > Also, when sailing, you can pull it right out of the water and get > far less drag than even the best inboard setup. and, if you bring a > dink with you, you'll generally want an outboard for that anyway, so > you may as well use it since you have it. > > I have given a lot of thought to outboard vs inboard power, and while > I don't realy LIKE outboards, I like some of the advantages they have, > and am thinking of going that way with my Triton. > > Ken > | 10382|10374|2006-02-05 18:55:54|kendall|Re: who need a motor|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "brentswain38" wrote: > > Always put in engine mounts , exhuast outlet , skeg cooling and stern > tube in the building proccess, while it is still easy, so the option > will remain open.You will probably want a diesel eventually after the > education session. > Brent > I agree with that, makes it a lot easier to switch later on. with my triton, (not yet at a point I can build a steel boat) I plan on leaving eb=verything engine related either in place, or easily replaceable, just don't want the hassle of the old A4, after needlessly tearing it down, I find I can get a used outboard for the same price as rebuilding the a4, figure I'll keep looking for a decent diesel and run the outboard, then when I've found it, drop the ob and install the diesel. ken| 10383|10371|2006-02-05 20:46:33|Puck III|Re: A Photo directly with the message !|Hi Guys , on special request and for those that had some difficulties finding the Yahoo Group Message with a pic attached in the message , I posted the message 1609 in the Ben's Oars file here , where there was some space left. As usual you can find the same pic larger in : http://www.buildingyourboat.com/tiki-browse_gallery.php?galleryId=6 where you may as well have a look at the first TriCatProa " BennyProa " to be designed and build in Origami, some call it the ( Emerging hull method :-) A message with a Pic attached ??? new ??? sure not :-) Cheers Old Ben --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III" wrote: > > Hi Guys , who is interested to find a pic with the message ?? > An interesting idea ?? > Just to explore the options open to us , I join a repost > from another Yahoo Group where that is on the Topic right now . > > Just wondering if anybody has an interest :-) > > Old Ben > -------------------- > --- In proa_file@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III" wrote: > > > > --- In proa_file@yahoogroups.com, "Gary Dierking" wrote: > > > > > > Yes, yes, yes. > > > Anything that allows us to display a photo or drawing within the > > > message will be a vast improvement. > > > > > > Gary > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am looking at possibilities for moving Proa File > International > > to a > > > > new host. There are several reasons for this: > > > > > > > 2: The Yahoo format is not working for us anymore, both in > terms > > of > > > > the organization of messages and in the handling of files and > > photos; > > > > it is extremely clumsy. > > > > --------------------------------- > > Hi Gary , yes yes yes I say , like you :-) > > a pic allong with the message !!! nothing is more simple :-) > > totaly free in this Group , right here ... hehehe....... > > HOW ??? please have a look at it :-) > > as usual nothing new ( almost 2 year old now) see in : > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/shantyboat/ > > > > message : 1609 Fw: Houseboat Idea > > ----- Original Message ----- From: Doug Traylor > > Subject: Houseboat Idea What do... Doug Traylor > > kellyt77879 Feb 17, 2004 2:01 am > > --------------------------------- > > > > You will find a perfect explaination how to massage > > the Yahoo pop up adverts that pay for the Groups > > and there you are :-) > > > > On the other hand , some people would call that > > cheap smart way of adding the pics directly to the message > > Hacking :-) , NO WAY , I would encourage anybody is such > > an activity !!!! > > > > There is an online rumor , one of our Groups members > > zachdour ( see is Yahoo profile on the last page of the members) > > was preparing a DEMO right here . > > Zachdour is a cautious & Naughty caracter , > > I wonder if he will not use an alias and a Polish IP > > to confuse us all :-) > > > > Zachdour sure is scared to be banned , so he may wait > > to receive some encouragement from the members . > > > > I officialy state I know Nick only casualy , > > so I can and will not take any responsability > > for what that caracter would dare to post !!!! > > > > Nick is a well known Actor with a Hollywood history ! > > I talked to much allready . > > > > Nice Houseboat pic allong with that message :-) > > 2 years old post !!! > > Do we ask Nick to ask his friend for a Demo ??? > > > > Never Hacking...... Old Ben :-) > | 10384|10374|2006-02-05 22:40:38|Michael Casling|Re: who need a motor|Speaking of motors, I have a 2.5 liter Nissan motor in my garage I would sell for $600-. I have not run this engine. It is about 70hp and has about 125 foot pounds of torque. Has glow plugs and a gear driven cam. Needs an alternator. A gearbox needs to be installed for the starter motor to be installed. That's why I have not run it. I was going to put it in my 18 foot aluminum Crestliner power boat hull, but I bought another sailboat instead. The Crestliner needs a bit of patching and I would sell it for $1000-. That includes a tandem axel trailer that needs a new draw bar. I am in Kelowna BC and can help with delivery. Also have an old 9 1/2 foot camper for sale cheap. It is nice inside but the jacks are being a problem. No fridge in this unit that weighs about 1300 pounds. It will go on a new style Chev pickup. Can deliver the whole lot an once if need be. We are selling the farm and I am gonna do more sailing. Will not have room to park / store all this stuff. Have two sailboats and that will be enough. Michael ----- Original Message ----- From: tom To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, February 05, 2006 8:27 AM Subject: [origamiboats] who need a motor Hello All I would have to say if an inboard engine is not in the budget or you just don't want one, at least have an outboard on a bracket could keep you out of some very unconformable situations. It doesn't take much there light and relatively inexpensive and with the proper maintenance will give many years of service. Yes they are a pain in the A-- at times but so are inboards. Don't get me wrong an inboard diesel if far better but very expensive. Let me tell you a short story about last weekend, A friend of mine bought a Yankee 28 sailboat on eBay and it was in Dana Point and had to be moved, So I went with him to check it out and it was ok to sail but the inboard needed much work so we mounted a bracket on the transom and the next weekend took my little 6hp Johnson and headed to Sanabarbara witch is about a 120 miles up the coast line. The seas were choppy and the wind was fickle at times we had no wind and getting hit by 6-7 foot steep waves, very uncomfortable ride so we motor sailed at about 3 knots and it was a lot better than being slammed around going nowhere. Anyway we motor sailed about 8 hours the whole trip and it took 45 hours to make are destination, without the engine it would have taken at least another day to make it. To me that little motor was worth its weight in gold at the time. Tom [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com SPONSORED LINKS British columbia canada Vancouver island Yacht ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS a.. Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web. b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 10385|10319|2006-02-06 06:58:53|Matt|Re: Who needs a motor?+ Oars|I've been researching Yulohs for my little 18' plywood yacht, and have found the following links usefull: http://www.alaska.net/~mzeiger/MJprogress04.html and http://www.alaska.net/~mzeiger/MJprogress04.html I've gone and bought the plans for a yuloh from MacNaughtons (http://www.macnaughtongroup.com/) so i'll built it and keep you nice folks posted. My little plywood boat will serve as a test bed for a number of ideas, junk rig included, before i go and build a bigger (origami steel) boat incorporating the best ideas. There seem to be as many ways to go sailing and voyaging as there are sailors and voyagers. So i've stopped asking sailors about junk rigs, or yulohs, or solar power - i'll figure out my own preferences before i build the biggie. Cheers, Matt --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Carl Volkwein wrote: > > Ok, > > So wich can develope more power, youhl or bahama type skulling oar? i''m real impressed with both, although the youhl looks harder to master. > Carl from W.V. > > jericoera wrote: > Thanks much, I'll do some more research. I suspect a motor will likely > be necessary for cruising though the Farell's lived for years without > one. > > Carl M > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Hallman wrote: > > > > On 2/3/06, jericoera wrote: > > > the gist of it by the drawing > > > > Yulohs work on the same principle as a propeller, except that they > > oscillate instead of rotate. > > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats- unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > SPONSORED LINKS > British columbia canada Vancouver island Yacht > > --------------------------------- > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > > Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > > --------------------------------- > > > > > > --------------------------------- > Relax. Yahoo! Mail virus scanning helps detect nasty viruses! > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > | 10386|10319|2006-02-06 07:05:32|Matt|Re: Who needs a motor?+ Oars|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Matt" wrote: > > I've been researching Yulohs for my little 18' plywood yacht, and Oops, seem to have posted the same link twice. Here's what i meant to do: http://www.alaska.net/~mzeiger/MJprogress04.html and http://www.simplicityboats.com/yulohpage.html Cheers, Matt > have found the following links usefull: > http://www.alaska.net/~mzeiger/MJprogress04.html > and > http://www.alaska.net/~mzeiger/MJprogress04.html > > I've gone and bought the plans for a yuloh from MacNaughtons > (http://www.macnaughtongroup.com/) so i'll built it and keep you nice > folks posted. > My little plywood boat will serve as a test bed for a number of > ideas, junk rig included, before i go and build a bigger (origami > steel) boat incorporating the best ideas. There seem to be as many > ways to go sailing and voyaging as there are sailors and voyagers. So > i've stopped asking sailors about junk rigs, or yulohs, or solar > power - i'll figure out my own preferences before i build the biggie. > Cheers, > Matt > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Carl Volkwein > wrote: > > > > Ok, > > > > So wich can develope more power, youhl or bahama type skulling > oar? i''m real impressed with both, although the youhl looks harder > to master. > > Carl from W.V. > > > > jericoera wrote: > > Thanks much, I'll do some more research. I suspect a motor will > likely > > be necessary for cruising though the Farell's lived for years > without > > one. > > > > Carl M > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Hallman wrote: > > > > > > On 2/3/06, jericoera wrote: > > > > the gist of it by the drawing > > > > > > Yulohs work on the same principle as a propeller, except that they > > > oscillate instead of rotate. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats- > unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > SPONSORED LINKS > > British columbia canada Vancouver island Yacht > > > > --------------------------------- > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > > > > > Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web. > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > Service. > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > Relax. Yahoo! Mail virus scanning helps detect nasty viruses! > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > | 10387|10374|2006-02-06 10:20:41|Puck III|Re: who need a motor|and sure faster than skulling Tom :-) I enjoyed the read of your story , a small outboard engine can bring you a long way , it can bring you there when you dont want to miss a tide !! Old Ben --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "tom" wrote: > > Hello All > I would have to say if an inboard engine is not in the budget or you just don't want one, at least have an outboard on a bracket could keep you out of some very unconformable situations. It doesn't take much there light and relatively inexpensive and with the proper maintenance will give many years of service. Yes they are a pain in the A-- at times but so are inboards. Don't get me wrong an inboard diesel if far better but very expensive. > Let me tell you a short story about last weekend, A friend of mine bought a Yankee 28 sailboat on eBay and it was in Dana Point and had to be moved, So I went with him to check it out and it was ok to sail but the inboard needed much work so we mounted a bracket on the transom and the next weekend took my little 6hp Johnson and headed to Sanabarbara witch is about a 120 miles up the coast line. > The seas were choppy and the wind was fickle at times we had no wind and getting hit by 6-7 foot steep waves, very uncomfortable ride so we motor sailed at about 3 knots and it was a lot better than being slammed around going nowhere. > Anyway we motor sailed about 8 hours the whole trip and it took 45 hours to make are destination, without the engine it would have taken at least another day to make it. > To me that little motor was worth its weight in gold at the time. > Tom > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > | 10388|10377|2006-02-06 12:29:11|Richard Till|Re: Cheap diesel.|Vancouver Harbour has areas where it is not permitted to proceed under sail. rt >From: "prairiemaidca" >Reply-To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com >To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com >Subject: [origamiboats] Cheap diesel. >Date: Sun, 05 Feb 2006 19:31:23 -0000 > >Hi all; If someone is looking for a real deal on a V.W. 1.6 litre >engine I still have a fully rebuilt one here for sale. Are there >places that will not allow you to enter under sail?? Could be a major >hassel for an engineless vessel... Martin... (Praire Maid) > > > _________________________________________________________________ Powerful Parental Controls Let your child discover the best the Internet has to offer. http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines Start enjoying all the benefits of MSN� Premium right now and get the first two months FREE*.| 10389|10374|2006-02-06 13:01:07|Richard Till|Re: who need a motor|Engine question. One of the local guys recently brought his boat back from Australia. The engine quit near Hawaii. The up-shot of this is that it was no problem out at sea--but a significant problem around the BC coast. He repaired the engine right away for local cruising. I decided on an inboard diesel even though I detest the smell. The reason is that I like to cruise the coast and a reliable motor makes this practical. My Cal 25 had a cantakerous outboard and it got us into some tight jams. Once it quit in the middle of Active Pass just before 2 ferries arrived. My aged mother was aboard and quite impressed with the volume of the 2 horns. We rudder sculled into a back eddy and anchored and commenced repairs. The inboard engine has worked out well so far. I have no regrets about installing a diesel. rt >From: "brentswain38" >Reply-To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com >To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com >Subject: [origamiboats] Re: who need a motor >Date: Sun, 05 Feb 2006 21:41:06 -0000 > >Always put in engine mounts , exhuast outlet , skeg cooling and stern >tube in the building proccess, while it is still easy, so the option >will remain open.You will probably want a diesel eventually after the >education session. >Brent > > >--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "kendall" wrote: > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Gerd" wrote: > > > > > > Tom, I have used outboards like that for years, but never was >really > > > happy with it - it's good if there is nothing else, or if you are > > > really strapped for cash, but it's usually not very nice. If you > > > have a transom hung rudder you have to mount the engine off >center, > > > which lifts it out when motorsailing on the other bord, and even >if > > > centered, in any sort of pitching movement it will come closer to > > > the surface or lift completely out, and just the sound of that is > > > enough to give me a toothache.. > > > > > > In spite of that I might do this again on my boat now if I don't > > > find a really cheap good inboard, but I am still looking into the > > > possibility to mount the outboard inside a well, somewhere under >the > > > main hatch / bridgedeck, If I an find a good way to lift and to > > > ventilate it, and also to close the well at the bottom with the > > > engine up, and to be able to pump the well empty. This might be a > > > good solution, clean hull, no resistance, easy, watertight and >cheap > > > to install, service ashore, when it's dead throw over the side >and > > > drop another one in the well ... ;-) > > > > > > Anybody has any practical experience with that? > > > > > > Gerd > > > the Yago Project at http://www.justmueller.com/boats/ > > > > > > > > > I think it was columbia, and the 'privateer' that had outboards in > > wells that looked (when on the hard) to be inboards, I know the > > privateer did, it had a cutout in the rudder for the outboard, and > > supposedly handled as well as an inboard. Myself, if I were going >with > > an outboard, I'd like to be able to use the outboard to it's full > > potential, which means being able to turn it and add a slight bit >more > > maneuverability to the boat, which calls for either a large well or >a > > transom mount, if I need to bump the stern over a ways, it's easy to > > crank the outboard a bit and let it push me sideways, once I know >what > > point the boat is going to pivot on I can take that into account on > > tight maneuvers. > > > > advantages/disadvantages I see to an outboard are that it takes >less > > room, but puts more weight at the stern, where it will have more > > effect unless mounted in a more centrally located well, it can add >to > > maneuvering ability, easier to work on just pull it out and take it > > home or drop it off. But they are harder to find parts for in some > > cases, but certain dedicated marine inboards have the same problems > > with parts availability. repowering is MUCH easier, unbolt and slap >on > > the new one. They are more likely to be stolen, but unless you like > > everything looking nice new and shiny, camoflage works, I had a >very > > sweet 50 horse ouboard on a small power boat, and there was a >serious > > rash of thefts in the area, 15 or 20 motors swiped, I took the cover > > off an old beat to crap johnson 35 horse and put it on my new > > outboard, slapped some white latex paint on the lower end, and never > > had anyone mess with it, it was too ugly and too 'old' looking. with > > an outboard it is feasable to carry a spare, not too easy with an > > inboard, also, with the outboard you have a lot of interior room >freed > > up for other niceties, and 'gotta-haves' but outboards also limit >the > > electrical power you can generate easily (unless you do a few small >mods) > > Also, when sailing, you can pull it right out of the water and get > > far less drag than even the best inboard setup. and, if you bring a > > dink with you, you'll generally want an outboard for that anyway, so > > you may as well use it since you have it. > > > > I have given a lot of thought to outboard vs inboard power, and >while > > I don't realy LIKE outboards, I like some of the advantages they >have, > > and am thinking of going that way with my Triton. > > > > Ken > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ Take advantage of powerful junk e-mail filters built on patented Microsoft� SmartScreen Technology. http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines Start enjoying all the benefits of MSN� Premium right now and get the first two months FREE*.| 10390|10374|2006-02-06 14:08:41|Alex Christie|Re: who needs a motor|There are some nice 4 stroke outboards out there offered by Honda and Yamaha with extra long shafts, large props, and 2:1 reduction gear in the hub. Around $1200 to $2000 used (good condition). Having pushed a heavy 36 foot teak boat up the coast and down again once with out boards that didn't even have reduction gears, I can attest to the fact that it can work ok. Ideal? No, but I could not afford the inboard, so went with the outboards. The engines were Honda and Suzuki and I never had any problems with them whatsoever. Neither had a reduction gear or extra long shaft (just long shaft), I just retrofitted each with larger low pitch props. There is absolutely no way I could have single-handed that boat through hairy Dodd's Narrows without motive power of some sort--- way to swirly in there, I would have lost the boat. That said, the attitude of using wind and muscle power to get around is philosophically very good, environmentally sound, and aesthetically pleasing. But I'd still keep some kind of engine on hand, or at least always make room for one, as per Brent's suggestion. Alex On 5-Feb-06, at 10:36 AM, Puck III wrote: > and sure faster than skulling Tom :-) > I enjoyed the read of your story , a small outboard engine > can bring you a long way , it can bring you there when > you dont want to miss a tide !! > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 10391|10377|2006-02-06 16:28:43|kingsknight4life|Re: Cheap diesel.|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Carl Nostrand wrote: > > Hello Martin, > > Were are you Paraire Maid? I'm up in Alaska ... Martin is located just outside of Edmonton AB. Rowland> > > > > > > > > > > > > | 10392|10392|2006-02-06 18:52:51|.|vw diesel toronto|Hi I have just joined this group and I am very impressed with the work of the members here. Also, I had no idea that a vw diesel could be used in a marine application. Seeing the thread about engines I remembered seeing one advertised on googles toronto for sale group. It is available as of this evening, I hope this will be useful. Factory rebuilt VW Diesel motor (non turbo) fits Mark I and Mark II Jetta or Golf - 50,000 km on motor in perfect condition - best offer. Lorne - 416.414.6569 or 905-897-0708| 10393|10393|2006-02-06 23:29:04|tom|Threw hulls and drains|Hello All After looking at some production boats and the way they use threw hull fittings for the sinks ect. The bottoms start to look like swiss cheese and I don't really like that idea. What I am thinking on my 26 is to have a 5-10 gallon plastic grey water tank both the galley and wc sinks and ice bocks drain into it then be able to pump out threw transom fitting. Does this sound like a good idea or am I looking for trouble and how are others setting them up? Tom [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]| 10394|22|2006-02-07 00:08:28|origamiboats@yahoogroups.com|New file uploaded to origamiboats |Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the origamiboats group. File : /A 36' Swain hull /DSCN9016.JPG Uploaded by : jericoera Description : McIntosh's woodstove You can access this file at the URL: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/files/A%2036%27%20Swain%20hull%20/DSCN9016.JPG To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit: http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files Regards, jericoera | 10395|10377|2006-02-07 01:26:08|Alex Christie|engineless, pantless|You aren't allowed to enter places like Victoria Harbour under sail, though I believe Allen Farrell (a famous engineless sailor/boatbuilder on this coast) would have done so, only because authorities were always afraid of the old man who would shuck his clothes at the drop of a hat if any one decided to bother him. He always sailed in the restricted navy testing area near Winchelsea Island in the nude, which always made the military launch veer away (what did they think he could do to them??). I'm planning on doing the same thing when I'm 80 too, or maybe earlier if need be. Alex| 10396|10393|2006-02-07 05:59:16|Puck III|Re: Threw hulls and drains|Hi Tom , in certain areas in the US as in many EU contries , you have to separate grey and black water by law . Some marinas and some officials will ask proof you emptied or had the tanks emptied in the special provided areas . Today one sees yachts standing in line to do soo :-) You can easely empty such a tank or both tanks if you use your own vacuum pump . I have one installed for my vacuum loo :-) I told everybody before how important a good functioning loo is. You can pump with a handsystem or for the lazy ones , install an electric pump , leaving the handpump as backup. To be frank , I ofthen use the grey watertank as waterreserve to rince the loo when the boat is dried out . I do not know wish system Brent Swain uses , but the nice pics of his boat dried out , show us he sure is comfronted with similar problems . When I am alone , a bucket of water will do , but the ladies like a bit more discreet conforts during operations . What are you looking for ? Drawings or installation instructions ? If you choose to ignore such installation , you risk autorities will seal of your toilet :-) Troubles only start if you remove the seal :-) A neat installation is cheaper than the fine !! Today the risk could be , they put your little ship at the chain for poluting a bay and bringing your country in serious health hassard..... You will then have to consult a lawyer....... Lett us all smile at that prospect :-) A simple porta potti will do the job .... My personal experience : I always give autorities a large smile and present the some Flemish Lemon Water :-) Goes in like water [ 25% alcohol ]...... I do remember State officials visiting later on with collegues asking : He Ben , some Flemish Water Left ??? Flemish Water is now popular from the Chesepeake to Florida :-) Tom , you must have similar special water in your area ??? That kinda water could help to keep you out of trouble . I could post a link to a special ' ChouffeCoffee ' but that aint realy the Topic . I dont wanne be accused to promote alcohol use :-) Old Ben --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "tom" wrote: > > Hello All > After looking at some production boats and the way they use threw hull fittings for the sinks ect. The bottoms start to look like swiss cheese and I don't really like that idea. What I am thinking on my 26 is to have a 5-10 gallon plastic grey water tank both the galley and wc sinks and ice bocks drain into it then be able to pump out threw transom fitting. > Does this sound like a good idea or am I looking for trouble and how are others setting them up? > Tom > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > | 10397|10377|2006-02-07 09:06:31|sae140|Re: Cheap diesel.|Entrance to Hoeke of Holland: "no tacking or beating - engine must be ready for instant start". "Special notes for Belgium and the Netherlands. Rules: Hbr police are strict about yachts using their engines entering harbour." Source: Reeds Almanac (UK & Western Europe) Colin --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Richard Till" wrote: > > Vancouver Harbour has areas where it is not permitted to proceed under sail. > rt > > > >From: "prairiemaidca" > >Reply-To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > >To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > >Subject: [origamiboats] Cheap diesel. > >Date: Sun, 05 Feb 2006 19:31:23 -0000 > > > >Hi all; If someone is looking for a real deal on a V.W. 1.6 litre > >engine I still have a fully rebuilt one here for sale. Are there > >places that will not allow you to enter under sail?? Could be a major > >hassel for an engineless vessel... Martin... (Praire Maid) > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Powerful Parental Controls Let your child discover the best the Internet has > to offer. > http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en- ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Mar ket_MSNIS_Taglines > Start enjoying all the benefits of MSN® Premium right now and get the > first two months FREE*. > | 10398|10377|2006-02-07 10:15:04|edward_stoneuk|Re: engineless|Poole (UK) harbour entrance requires engine power as well. There was dramatic video footage on TV showing a 70 year old yachtstwoman and her dinghy being pushed broadside the tide underneath the Sandbanks chain ferry that crosses the harbour mouth. Her two male companions managed to grap hold of the safety lines along the ferry's hull and stand on the rubbing strake but the lady went right under and bobbed up the otherside. She was interviewed on TV that evening and was none the worse for wear. A lucky plucky lady. Regards, Ted| 10399|10393|2006-02-07 10:23:33|tom|Re: Threw hulls and drains|Hello Old Ben I quess I had better resurch the laws here on grey water discharge, I see so many boat with the sinks drain directly overboard that I assumed it was legal. As far as the head I am going to use a portapoti type and that is legal. I am not looking for drawings or plans it would be a streight forward install, one of the sailboats I had years ago had a galley that under the sink there was two 2-1/2 gallon water jugs one was for water and the other for the drain and a hand pump on the sink, very simple system and it worked out great for weekend trips ----- Original Message ----- From: "Puck III" To: Sent: Tuesday, February 07, 2006 2:58 AM Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Threw hulls and drains > Hi Tom , in certain areas in the US as in many EU contries , > you have to separate grey and black water by law . > Some marinas and some officials will ask proof you emptied > or had the tanks emptied in the special provided areas . > Today one sees yachts standing in line to do soo :-) > > You can easely empty such a tank or both tanks if you > use your own vacuum pump . > I have one installed for my vacuum loo :-) > I told everybody before how important a good functioning loo is. > > You can pump with a handsystem or for the lazy ones , > install an electric pump , leaving the handpump as backup. > > To be frank , I ofthen use the grey watertank as waterreserve > to rince the loo when the boat is dried out . > > I do not know wish system Brent Swain uses , but the nice pics > of his boat dried out , show us he sure is comfronted with > similar problems . > When I am alone , a bucket of water will do , but the ladies > like a bit more discreet conforts during operations . > > What are you looking for ? Drawings or installation instructions ? > > If you choose to ignore such installation , > you risk autorities will seal of your toilet :-) > > Troubles only start if you remove the seal :-) > > A neat installation is cheaper than the fine !! > Today the risk could be , they put your little ship > at the chain for poluting a bay and bringing your country > in serious health hassard..... > You will then have to consult a lawyer....... > > Lett us all smile at that prospect :-) > A simple porta potti will do the job .... > > My personal experience : I always give autorities a > large smile and present the some Flemish Lemon Water :-) > Goes in like water [ 25% alcohol ]...... > I do remember State officials visiting later on with > collegues asking : He Ben , some Flemish Water Left ??? > Flemish Water is now popular from the Chesepeake to Florida :-) > > Tom , you must have similar special water in your area ??? > That kinda water could help to keep you out of trouble . > > I could post a link to a special ' ChouffeCoffee ' > but that aint realy the Topic . > I dont wanne be accused to promote alcohol use :-) > > Old Ben > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "tom" wrote: >> >> Hello All >> After looking at some production boats and the way they use threw > hull fittings for the sinks ect. The bottoms start to look like swiss > cheese and I don't really like that idea. What I am thinking on my 26 > is to have a 5-10 gallon plastic grey water tank both the galley and > wc sinks and ice bocks drain into it then be able to pump out threw > transom fitting. >> Does this sound like a good idea or am I looking for trouble and > how are others setting them up? >> Tom >> >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >> > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > | 10400|10400|2006-02-07 12:03:25|SHANE ROTHWELL|Outboatds & Yuloh's|Ever seen the combo of glass & gas after someone forgets to turn on the blower before firing it up? Maybe it's their day, no fuel leaks/no reprocussions. Maybe it ain't their day & just a wee littel leak.... the results are impressive to say the least. Imagine the same on a steel boat..... You can buy diesel outboard engines but they're very expensive & it's cost you are looking to save isn't it? If you are going to go with a gas outboard, install them just like they recommend, 'outboard' Another way of doing cheap power is to mount an engine on a ballanced rig with a long shaft, Thai style. Use any engine you can get your hands on. these guys mount everything from little 3 hp gas engines to huge diesel V8's this way. very clever & very cheap. the whole thing is ballanced on a single pin, just like a yuloh. Most have no gear box but some do. They're perfectly ballanced can be operated by a child. start the donk & dip the prop which is at the end of a very long shaft in teh water & way you go. Very cool Not too many yuloh's around Hong kong anymore but you still see some big old fishing junks manoevering with them in the typhoon shelters. Pretty impressive how much can be moved with em, about 1.5 knott in calm conditions for 45' of boat. 4-5 tonns at a guess. Lookes almost effortless, maybe becuz they are using their legs not arms. __________________________________________________________ Find your next car at http://autos.yahoo.ca| 10401|10401|2006-02-07 12:39:23|Marcel Demers|Almost finish|Hy Alex, Brent and all Brent I posted some shots of my boat in the photo album under Marcel's boat. I've almost finihsed and should be flotting by this fall.. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]| 10402|10401|2006-02-07 13:46:02|Alex Christie|Re: Almost finish|Congratulations, Marcel, an inspiration to us all! Alex On 7-Feb-06, at 9:41 AM, Marcel Demers wrote: > Hy  Alex, Brent and all > >       Brent I posted some shots of my boat in the photo album under > Marcel's boat. I've almost finihsed and should be flotting by this > fall.. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 10403|10403|2006-02-07 15:45:58|prairiemaidca|Zincs: How much is enough??|Hi All: I guess this is a question directed to those that have a swain 36 that has been in the salt for awhile. I've attached a couple of zincs to Prairie Maids hull but I'm wondering just how much zinc should be on a 36 to give her reasonable protection? Martin Forster...| 10404|10393|2006-02-07 15:56:01|brentswain38|Re: Threw hulls and drains|I find it easy to avoid such countries that choose to make yachties political scapegoats . In California people simply pump out after dark.That was suggested to a friend by a cop in San diego I have found that ss pipe nipples simply welded in with ss rod last forever and give no problems. If you make them vertical they will parallel the bulkheads and thus take up less interior space, It also makes it easier to put SS standpipes on them making for stainless to above the waterline, minimising the liabilities of hose and hose clamp breakdown. Brent Swain --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "tom" wrote: > > Hello Old Ben > I quess I had better resurch the laws here on grey water discharge, I see > so many boat with the sinks drain directly overboard that I assumed it was > legal. As far as the head I am going to use a portapoti type and that is > legal. > I am not looking for drawings or plans it would be a streight forward > install, one of the sailboats I had years ago had a galley that under the > sink there was two 2-1/2 gallon water jugs one was for water and the other > for the drain and a hand pump on the sink, very simple system and it worked > out great for weekend trips > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Puck III" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, February 07, 2006 2:58 AM > Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Threw hulls and drains > > > > Hi Tom , in certain areas in the US as in many EU contries , > > you have to separate grey and black water by law . > > Some marinas and some officials will ask proof you emptied > > or had the tanks emptied in the special provided areas . > > Today one sees yachts standing in line to do soo :-) > > > > You can easely empty such a tank or both tanks if you > > use your own vacuum pump . > > I have one installed for my vacuum loo :-) > > I told everybody before how important a good functioning loo is. > > > > You can pump with a handsystem or for the lazy ones , > > install an electric pump , leaving the handpump as backup. > > > > To be frank , I ofthen use the grey watertank as waterreserve > > to rince the loo when the boat is dried out . > > > > I do not know wish system Brent Swain uses , but the nice pics > > of his boat dried out , show us he sure is comfronted with > > similar problems . > > When I am alone , a bucket of water will do , but the ladies > > like a bit more discreet conforts during operations . > > > > What are you looking for ? Drawings or installation instructions ? > > > > If you choose to ignore such installation , > > you risk autorities will seal of your toilet :-) > > > > Troubles only start if you remove the seal :-) > > > > A neat installation is cheaper than the fine !! > > Today the risk could be , they put your little ship > > at the chain for poluting a bay and bringing your country > > in serious health hassard..... > > You will then have to consult a lawyer....... > > > > Lett us all smile at that prospect :-) > > A simple porta potti will do the job .... > > > > My personal experience : I always give autorities a > > large smile and present the some Flemish Lemon Water :-) > > Goes in like water [ 25% alcohol ]...... > > I do remember State officials visiting later on with > > collegues asking : He Ben , some Flemish Water Left ??? > > Flemish Water is now popular from the Chesepeake to Florida :-) > > > > Tom , you must have similar special water in your area ??? > > That kinda water could help to keep you out of trouble . > > > > I could post a link to a special ' ChouffeCoffee ' > > but that aint realy the Topic . > > I dont wanne be accused to promote alcohol use :-) > > > > Old Ben > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "tom" wrote: > >> > >> Hello All > >> After looking at some production boats and the way they use threw > > hull fittings for the sinks ect. The bottoms start to look like swiss > > cheese and I don't really like that idea. What I am thinking on my 26 > > is to have a 5-10 gallon plastic grey water tank both the galley and > > wc sinks and ice bocks drain into it then be able to pump out threw > > transom fitting. > >> Does this sound like a good idea or am I looking for trouble and > > how are others setting them up? > >> Tom > >> > >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > | 10405|10401|2006-02-07 16:19:07|Puck III|Re: Almost finish|Hi Marcel , congratulations !!! my kinda finish , I went over every pic with much attention , you made a fine example for all . - neat paint job - table allowing easy passage forward with nice marquetery WOW - permanent ventilation in the cabinet doors . - extra simple security handles on cabinet doors - the Lavac is my personal favorite loo :-) - the 2 waterpumps on the sink !!! - the nice tiles behind the stove look great . Marcel your boat looks great , one does not find that on many production boats !!! I have 2 questions , please post me a Link for the stove , I do not know that model . Did you tried the stove allready and are you happy ? When do you break the bottle of champaigne on that boat? She and her builder deserve the champaigne !!! Fair Winds or Bon Vent :-) Old Ben --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Marcel Demers" wrote: > > Hy Alex, Brent and all > > Brent I posted some shots of my boat in the photo album under Marcel's boat. I've almost finihsed and should be flotting by this fall.. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > | 10406|10377|2006-02-07 16:26:58|brentswain38|Re: Cheap diesel.|Usually such places are both easy to avoid and best avoided. Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Richard Till" wrote: > > Vancouver Harbour has areas where it is not permitted to proceed under sail. > rt > > > >From: "prairiemaidca" > >Reply-To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > >To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > >Subject: [origamiboats] Cheap diesel. > >Date: Sun, 05 Feb 2006 19:31:23 -0000 > > > >Hi all; If someone is looking for a real deal on a V.W. 1.6 litre > >engine I still have a fully rebuilt one here for sale. Are there > >places that will not allow you to enter under sail?? Could be a major > >hassel for an engineless vessel... Martin... (Praire Maid) > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Powerful Parental Controls Let your child discover the best the Internet has > to offer. > http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en- ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Mar ket_MSNIS_Taglines > Start enjoying all the benefits of MSN® Premium right now and get the > first two months FREE*. > | 10407|10401|2006-02-07 16:54:46|edward_stoneuk|Re: Almost finish|Marcel, Congratulations. A very impressive boat. A lot of work. Two things that intrigue me. What are the two stainless steel cylinders on the pilot house roof that look like exhaust mufflers or silencers with slots in them? Regards, Ted| 10408|10401|2006-02-07 18:05:38|Gerd|Re: Almost finish|Great Job, Marcel, VERY VERY nice indeed!!! I am sure she'll give you many long years of pleasure and good vibrations! ;-) I almost darn't ask, but do you already have an overview of the big picture worked out: cost, hous... ? Or do you prefer to forget that part now? ;-) What's the plans? Go cruising? Gerd| 10409|7433|2006-02-07 18:49:42|khooper_fboats|Origamiboats Searchable Archive Updated|There was a delay in updating this fortnight due to the fact that Yahoo has changed the message format again and that broke the script I use to scrape messages, but it's fixed now so: The searchable archive has been updated to current as of 2/07/06 and now contains 10,340 messages. This page features an intelligent search engine and there are no advertisements. http://www.crazyface.net/origamiboats/index.html Please bookmark this site. A link has been placed in the Links section of the Origamiboats Yahoo Groups web site if you should forget the link. The archive is updated every two weeks. This message is posted approximately every six weeks. Regards, --Ken Hooper| 10410|10410|2006-02-07 19:58:43|SHANE ROTHWELL|Engineless & pantless|Alex is right. Things would be a helluvulot better if we had more people like Allen Farrell about. Have to admire the man for the way he handled the beurocraps tho, but I don't think I'll wait at all to use the same tactics. It'll be worth it even if it is in January on the wet coast if it gets the bastards out of the way. Damned burocraps, classic case of the tail wagging the dog __________________________________________________________ Find your next car at http://autos.yahoo.ca| 10411|10401|2006-02-07 20:19:54|Marcel Demers|Re: Almost finish|Glad you guys like it... OK Ben the stove a marine Faball model 180 it runs on fuel, I installed a 12 volt fuel pump and it simply takes the fuel from my tank and keeps a constant pressure in the stove line. the stove has a graded control ( for adjustment) on a small container and keeps a steady flow of fuel entering the furnace, I've been heating the boat for 2 winters now and it works just fine, it also takes the air from the outside so it doesn't consume interior oxygen and the intake and output equalize when there is a gust of wind, so no need of a baffle ''T'' pipe inside, it is build of 316 stainless steel and a bronze lift top....simple effective just the way I like it. It's from BC. voila to link: http://www.rivermarine.com/heating/faball/faball1.htm I should break the bottle this fall, cause if I'm stuck here for another winter... I'll probably down more than one bottle...ha! ..ha! Merci| 10412|10374|2006-02-07 20:53:00|mickeyolaf|Re: who needs a motor|The Pardy's sailed around the world engineless. But that is their trade, to sail and write about it or build and write about it. The rest of us have jobs, kids, homes to maintain etc. We don't have the time like Larry and Lynn to sit for a week waiting for a favourable wind to carry us out. I'll bet they got the odd tow and forgot to write about it. Who want's to sit in Vancouver's English Bay or any other harbour for the day going nowhere when the sea looks like a millpond? Not me. A day off to go boating is a valuable commodity. To go boating means to go somewhere even if it is just to sail. Wallowing wears thin pretty fast. The engineless boat's friends will be at the anchorage enjoying happy hour while the engineless boat rolls in the swells. I quess it's romantic to sail the seas with just the wind or a scull for propulsion but that was before the heavy traffic of todays harbors. Now you are expected to get out of the way of the ferry and the tanker. The other traffic expects a sailboat larger than a day sailor to have an engine. I wouldn't want to sail under Vancouver's Lions Gate Bridge. Strong current. Fickle Wind. Just too may boats. So why did I buy an Engine? Cause I'm a lousy sailer and the engine will keep/get me out of trouble. Cause I want to recharge my batteries and heat water. Cause I don't have the time to sit going nowhere. Cause when my family is aboard it gives me a safety factor to escape a dangerous situation. (Let's not forget that there are boaters who are downright dangerous out there. Here in Vancouver they motor between tugs and tows, into ferries, full speed into rocks, anchor midchannel at night with no lights. It's hard to avoid these Captains with only your oar.) Cause three quaters of a gallon per hour will not break me. Cause sometimes I will want to go seven knots. Cause I don't have a patient wife. Cause I'm not a true sailor. Cause I like the concept, look and utility of a pilothouse motorsailor. An engine brings a higher resale value, safety, convienance, a hot shower and a happier first mate. When you can't claw off and the anchor won't grab the Yanmar will save your boat. --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Alex Christie wrote: > > There are some nice 4 stroke outboards out there offered by Honda and > Yamaha with extra long shafts, large props, and 2:1 reduction gear in > the hub. Around $1200 to $2000 used (good condition). Having pushed a > heavy 36 foot teak boat up the coast and down again once with out > boards that didn't even have reduction gears, I can attest to the fact > that it can work ok. Ideal? No, but I could not afford the inboard, so > went with the outboards. The engines were Honda and Suzuki and I never > had any problems with them whatsoever. Neither had a reduction gear or > extra long shaft (just long shaft), I just retrofitted each with larger > low pitch props. There is absolutely no way I could have single- handed > that boat through hairy Dodd's Narrows without motive power of some > sort--- way to swirly in there, I would have lost the boat. > > That said, the attitude of using wind and muscle power to get around is > philosophically very good, environmentally sound, and aesthetically > pleasing. But I'd still keep some kind of engine on hand, or at least > always make room for one, as per Brent's suggestion. > > Alex > > > On 5-Feb-06, at 10:36 AM, Puck III wrote: > > > and sure faster than skulling Tom :-) > > I enjoyed the read of your story , a small outboard engine > > can bring you a long way , it can bring you there when > > you dont want to miss a tide !! > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > | 10413|10401|2006-02-07 20:56:30|Marcel Demers|Re: Almost finish|Bonjour Ted Actually there are 4 ...2 near the forward hatch and the 2 you saw on the pilothouse, they are vertical dorade box , instead of a huge square dorade box, you have these cylinders doing the same job, the ones on the pilothouse look like mufflers 'cause of the piece of pipe welded on top, they will serve as boom gallows supports, the ones in front don't have them...the slots you see on the bottom are to let air in and also serve as drains when a wave will hit it, there is a smaller diameter (3'' stainless scd.40) welded in the deck and inside the larger one you see on the outside with slots on the opposite side...so air circulates but no water goes in...they also are oriented opposite 2 forward facing at the bow and the 2 on the pilot house facing aft. I have installed screw on round covers inside so I can adjust the air flow and close them watertight in really bad weather. I also use the ones on the pilothouse as ventilation for my motor. Check this out. I built my motor casing isolated from the rest of the boat so I have installed 2 small snap on access hatches on the motor box and 12 volt fan inside the motor box that exhausts trough the access hatch into a dryer type spiral 3'' piece of hose that fits on the cabin side pipe of the vent, I simply connect the other access hatch to the other ventilation pipe and start the fan et VOILA ''ventillation a la carte'' , my motor always has a fresh air supply and the heat goes outside. Also ,being a fire fighter, those hatches are just great in case of a fire in the motor box instead of lifting the ole box and having all the flames coming out I just snap off one hatch and give a shot of an fire extinguisher inside the hole and VOILA ''extinction a la carte'' If you are interested I'll try to draw up something and put it in my album..... Marcel| 10414|10401|2006-02-07 21:03:10|Marcel Demers|Re: Almost finish|Bonjour Gerd I did not do the calculation of the total cost yet put will do when I am completly done. The plan is to liveaboard. Start with the Richelieu river - Lac Champlain - Hudson river to New York all with the motor then lift the mast and head for the Bahamas then we'll see. It's just like I was crossing a bridge and it falling apart behind me ....there is simply no turning back.................VOILA ''cruising a la carte'' Marcel| 10415|10401|2006-02-07 23:28:50|kingsknight4life|Re: Almost finish|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Marcel Demers" wrote: > > Hy Alex, Brent and all > > Brent I posted some shots of my boat in the photo album under Marcel's boat. I've almost finihsed and should be flotting by this fall.. > Congrats Marcel The boat looks awesome. I remember seeing her come through Shelter Island Marina a couple of years ago and wondering what she looks like inside. Now I know and am definitely not disappointed. I hope my own boat turns out half as nice. Now for my own question. lol What type of wood did you use on the interior, specifically on the vertical pieces of the setees, steering station, fridge etc.? It looks like birch but I have also seen teak that looks similair. Either way it is very nice. Could you post some more details and perhapsa drawing regarding those vents, they sound very intersting? Thanks and congrats on a well done project again, Rowland| 10416|10400|2006-02-08 06:31:09|sae140|Re: Outboatds & Yuloh's|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, SHANE ROTHWELL wrote: > > Ever seen the combo of glass & gas after someone > forgets to turn on the blower before firing it up? > Maybe it's their day, no fuel leaks/no reprocussions. > Maybe it ain't their day & just a wee littel leak.... > the results are impressive to say the least. Imagine > the same on a steel boat..... > If you are going to go with a gas outboard, install > them just like they recommend, 'outboard' > Can't quite see the logic of this ... Inboard gas engines have a bad reputation - or rather, badly-maintained gas engines have. But - outboards-in-a-well are located in a 100% open part of the boat. Providing you have adequate cockpit drains and these are kept open, any fumes automatically find their way out of the boat, by courtesy of either wind or gravity. There are many professionally-designed outboard-in-a-well designs which routinely pass stringent safety inspections. Many who condemn gas engines (both inboard and outboard) are still quite happy to use propane for cooking !! Colin| 10417|10401|2006-02-08 07:31:59|cirejay|Re: Almost finish|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Marcel Demers" wrote: > > Glad you guys like it... > > > OK Ben the stove a marine Faball model 180 it runs on fuel, I installed a 12 > volt fuel pump and it simply takes the fuel from my tank and keeps a When I saw the heater in the pictures I thought it was a Sigmar 180 and was going to ask how you liked it. Is the Faball 180 the same as the Sigmar 180? Sure seems so. sounds like you like the 'balanced draft' I have been thinking of installing this very model in my boat which is why I'm so interested. Also, do you have the water coil and if so, is it up to expectation? How about fuel consumption? Thanks, eric S/V Nebaras| 10418|10401|2006-02-08 08:31:54|audeojude|Re: Almost finish|Absolutely stunning :) nice job marcel scott --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Marcel Demers" wrote: > > Hy Alex, Brent and all > > Brent I posted some shots of my boat in the photo album under Marcel's boat. I've almost finihsed and should be flotting by this fall.. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > | 10419|10400|2006-02-08 09:25:02|Denis Buggy|Re: Outboatds & Yuloh's|----- Original Message ----- From: SHANE ROTHWELL To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, February 07, 2006 5:03 PM Subject: [orig thai longshaft boats bring a decibel meter with you next time you are in bangkok and measure the decibles 2 ft from a diesel v 8 open air thai style , yes it is cheap and most retain the truck gearbox and exit exaust 1-2 ft without muffler box, when i was last there only 2 hotels had their own water ro system so maybe hearing loss is not so much a problem . denis Another way of doing cheap power is to mount an engine on a ballanced rig with a long shaft, Thai style. Use any engine you can get your hands on. these guys mount everything from little 3 hp gas engines to huge diesel V8's this way. very clever & very cheap. the whole thing is ballanced on a single pin, just like a yuloh. Most have no gear box but some do. They're perfectly ballanced can be operated by a child. start the donk & dip the prop which is at the end of a very long shaft in teh water & way you go. Very cool Not too many yuloh's around Hong kong anymore but you still see some big old fishing junks manoevering with them in the typhoon shelters. Pretty impressive how much can be moved with em, about 1.5 knott in calm conditions for 45' of boat. 4-5 tonns at a guess. Lookes almost effortless, maybe becuz they are using their legs not arms. __________________________________________________________ Find your next car at http://autos.yahoo.ca To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com SPONSORED LINKS British columbia canada Vancouver island Yacht ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS a.. Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web. b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 10420|10400|2006-02-08 09:28:33|Puck III|Re: Outboatds & Yuloh's|I condem nobody :-) but personaly I like to cook on diesel !!! It works fine , and I never have to look for or handle heavy gasbottles anymore . Old Ben --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "sae140" wrote: > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, SHANE ROTHWELL > wrote: > > > > Ever seen the combo of glass & gas after someone > > forgets to turn on the blower before firing it up? > > Maybe it's their day, no fuel leaks/no reprocussions. > > Maybe it ain't their day & just a wee littel leak.... > > the results are impressive to say the least. Imagine > > the same on a steel boat..... > > > If you are going to go with a gas outboard, install > > them just like they recommend, 'outboard' > > > > Can't quite see the logic of this ... > Inboard gas engines have a bad reputation - or rather, > badly-maintained gas engines have. > > But - outboards-in-a-well are located in a 100% open > part of the boat. Providing you have adequate cockpit > drains and these are kept open, any fumes automatically > find their way out of the boat, by courtesy of either > wind or gravity. > > There are many professionally-designed outboard-in-a-well > designs which routinely pass stringent safety inspections. > > Many who condemn gas engines (both inboard and outboard) > are still quite happy to use propane for cooking !! > > Colin > | 10421|10400|2006-02-08 10:20:02|khooper_fboats|Gas Inboard|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "sae140" wrote: > Can't quite see the logic of this ... > Inboard gas engines have a bad reputation - or rather, > badly-maintained gas engines have. Is anybody contemplating a gas inboard? I know it is heresy and I concede it might be less safe than a diesel but maybe it could be made tolerably safe with all metal lines, robust firewall and careful design. The thing is that these boats have really shallow bilges and Subaru makes this lovely boxer "pancake" engine with just the right displacement. The cylinders come out the sides horizontally. They are proven engines and widely available used, parts are cheap, etc. It is so shallow I think it might fit under the floor even in an origami hull. --Ken| 10422|10400|2006-02-08 10:34:01|Michael Casling|Re: Outboatds & Yuloh's|Actually I have been on board when a 302 Ford backfired through the carburettor and caught fire. The timing chain can jump a tooth on those engines. But steel construction did not save the lives of people on the Estonia ferry, and the boat that just went down in the Red Sea. The steel itself may survive reasonably well but there is usually sufficient other materials to make a steel boat an unsafe place with a fire on board. I think the original reference to a diesel outboard was something like small compact light etcetera, and they do not exist. They do exist when run on petrol, and others have described the good and the bad aspects of them. I try to determine a products value by how well it will perform in an emergency. Unfortunately an OBM will not drive many boats to windward in heavy wind and short steep waves. Michael ----- Original Message ----- From: SHANE ROTHWELL To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, February 07, 2006 9:03 AM Subject: [origamiboats] Outboatds & Yuloh's Ever seen the combo of glass & gas after someone forgets to turn on the blower before firing it up? Maybe it's their day, no fuel leaks/no reprocussions. Maybe it ain't their day & just a wee littel leak.... the results are impressive to say the least. Imagine the same on a steel boat..... You can buy diesel outboard engines but they're very expensive & it's cost you are looking to save isn't it? If you are going to go with a gas outboard, install them just like they recommend, 'outboard' Another way of doing cheap power is to mount an engine on a ballanced rig with a long shaft, Thai style. Use any engine you can get your hands on. these guys mount everything from little 3 hp gas engines to huge diesel V8's this way. very clever & very cheap. the whole thing is ballanced on a single pin, just like a yuloh. Most have no gear box but some do. They're perfectly ballanced can be operated by a child. start the donk & dip the prop which is at the end of a very long shaft in teh water & way you go. Very cool Not too many yuloh's around Hong kong anymore but you still see some big old fishing junks manoevering with them in the typhoon shelters. Pretty impressive how much can be moved with em, about 1.5 knott in calm conditions for 45' of boat. 4-5 tonns at a guess. Lookes almost effortless, maybe becuz they are using their legs not arms. __________________________________________________________ Find your next car at http://autos.yahoo.ca To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com SPONSORED LINKS British columbia canada Vancouver island Yacht ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS a.. Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web. b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 10423|10400|2006-02-08 16:31:14|Bill Jaine|Re: Gas Inboard|Well Ken, I have a gas inboard, propane stove in my plastic boat and a diesel car. For my money a diesel is better in a boat BUT gas engines are OK, you can buy gas anywhere, diesel is sometimes hard to get, you just HAVE TO BE CAREFUL. Vent well, smell before you fire up etc. Gas is less trouble to look after than diesel and doesn't smell as bad. Bill, Port Hope, Canada > > > Is anybody contemplating a gas inboard? I know it is heresy and I > concede it might be less safe than a diesel but maybe it could be made > tolerably safe with all metal lines, robust firewall and careful design. > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]| 10424|10400|2006-02-08 17:26:00|Puck III|Re: Gas Inboard|Hi Ken , personaly I used a gasengine for many years . http://www.dolphinengines.co.uk/ that would be a fine engine on the BS 26' light , no reverse ( just stop the engine and start it turning in the other direction :-) it gave me years of satisfaction . like with everything .... if properly installed and well maintained you will enjoy it. its an older type marine engine but sure worth looking at. Old Ben --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "khooper_fboats" wrote: > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "sae140" wrote: > > > Can't quite see the logic of this ... > > Inboard gas engines have a bad reputation - or rather, > > badly-maintained gas engines have. > > Is anybody contemplating a gas inboard? I know it is heresy and I > concede it might be less safe than a diesel but maybe it could be made > tolerably safe with all metal lines, robust firewall and careful design. > > The thing is that these boats have really shallow bilges and Subaru > makes this lovely boxer "pancake" engine with just the right > displacement. The cylinders come out the sides horizontally. They are > proven engines and widely available used, parts are cheap, etc. It is > so shallow I think it might fit under the floor even in an origami hull. > > --Ken > | 10425|10425|2006-02-08 18:29:11|ANDREW AIREY|Re: Digest Number 1456|Hi Everyone re Cheap Diesel Why can't you just use a car or van diesel engine.Being more specific - what do you need to do to marinise such an engine.I'm in the UK so there is no shortage of such engines and prices are very reasonable.Actually an ex fork truck unit might be better since this would be coupled to a hydraulic pump which could then be used with a suitable motor to power an outboard drive unit,bow thrusters,anchor hoists etc Cheers Andy Airey ___________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Messenger - NEW crystal clear PC to PC calling worldwide with voicemail http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com| 10426|10401|2006-02-08 18:39:07|Marcel Demers|Re: Almost finish|Bonjour Rowland The wood I used inside the boat, teak-sherry wood- white pine- red and yellow cedar- white oak-and 40 year old cedar, all came from just about everywhere some from my brother's land (sherry wood) some from a sofa and small tables a coworker wanted to get rid of (white oak) some from pieces of wood I gathered in the garage through the years and the rest on sale at Rona store (balance of stock) The one I used for the settees, the fridge and the inside steering station is the yellow cedar I got on sale from the Rona store. I have put some drawings and pictures in my album ( Marcel's boat) the drawings are not very large if you want to, send me an email address so I can send you larger pictures of the drawings.. By the way I appreciate all your feedbacks ...........merci beaucoup Marcel > Now for my own question. lol What type of wood did you use on the > interior, specifically on the vertical pieces of the setees, > steering station, fridge etc.? It looks like birch but I have also > seen teak that looks similair. Either way it is very nice. Could you > post some more details and perhapsa drawing regarding those vents, > they sound very intersting? > > Thanks and congrats on a well done project again, > Rowland | 10427|10401|2006-02-08 19:04:24|Marcel Demers|Re: Almost finish|Bonjour Eric -Yes this balance draft is super in 2 winters the flame never went out and it gets nasty sometimes around here. -Yes Faball and Sigmar are both the same. - I don't have the water coil 'cause I will be cruising for the next 4 years in the Caribbeans and Mediterranean sea than if I want I'll buy one when I get to BC ( in 5 years ) so I won't be heating very often for now, hope so anyway. -It's hard to say if it consumes a lot of fuel 'cause I lite it up in November and shut it off in Mai and in that period the temperature varies from 0 to -35 all I can say is last winter I had a 2 gallons jugg feeding it by gravity and in the big cold I had the dial set at 6 and 7 and it used the 2 gallons in about a day and a haft or two, and the boat was not completly finished inside. Hope it helps.... Marcel ----- Original Message ----- From: "cirejay" To: Sent: Wednesday, February 08, 2006 7:31 AM Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Almost finish > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Marcel Demers" > wrote: >> >> Glad you guys like it... >> >> >> OK Ben the stove a marine Faball model 180 it runs on fuel, I > installed a 12 >> volt fuel pump and it simply takes the fuel from my tank and keeps > a > > When I saw the heater in the pictures I thought it was a Sigmar 180 > and was going to ask how you liked it. Is the Faball 180 the same > as the Sigmar 180? Sure seems so. sounds like you like > the 'balanced draft' I have been thinking of installing this very > model in my boat which is why I'm so interested. > > Also, do you have the water coil and if so, is it up to > expectation? How about fuel consumption? > > Thanks, > eric S/V Nebaras > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > | 10428|22|2006-02-08 19:30:17|origamiboats@yahoogroups.com|New file uploaded to origamiboats |Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the origamiboats group. File : /Car & Truck engine conversions/MarineConversions.jpg Uploaded by : ben_azo Description : interesting book how to You can access this file at the URL: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/files/Car%20%26%20Truck%20engine%20conversions/MarineConversions.jpg To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit: http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files Regards, ben_azo | 10429|22|2006-02-08 19:31:06|origamiboats@yahoogroups.com|New file uploaded to origamiboats |Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the origamiboats group. File : /Car & Truck engine conversions/Golfdieselconversion1.jpg Uploaded by : ben_azo Description : Adres in File You can access this file at the URL: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/files/Car%20%26%20Truck%20engine%20conversions/Golfdieselconversion1.jpg To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit: http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files Regards, ben_azo | 10430|22|2006-02-08 19:32:36|origamiboats@yahoogroups.com|New file uploaded to origamiboats |Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the origamiboats group. File : /Car & Truck engine conversions/MercedesDieselmarineconv1.jpg Uploaded by : ben_azo Description : coordinates in file You can access this file at the URL: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/files/Car%20%26%20Truck%20engine%20conversions/MercedesDieselmarineconv1.jpg To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit: http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files Regards, ben_azo | 10431|10425|2006-02-08 19:39:47|Puck III|Re: Digest Number 1456|Hi Andy , see the files I posted for you . Many of those engines are equiped with a Power Take Off so looking for one with a PTO allready installed will let you use that system for the use you want . The Dutch have most parts in stock for resonable prices. You will find VW and Mercedes dealers almost anywhere . Old Ben --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, ANDREW AIREY wrote: > > Hi Everyone > > re Cheap Diesel > > Why can't you just use a car or van diesel > engine.Being more specific - what do you need to do to > marinise such an engine.I'm in the UK so there is no > shortage of such engines and prices are very > reasonable.Actually an ex fork truck unit might be > better since this would be coupled to a hydraulic pump > which could then be used with a suitable motor to > power an outboard drive unit,bow thrusters,anchor > hoists etc > Cheers > Andy Airey > > > > > > ___________________________________________________________ > Yahoo! Messenger - NEW crystal clear PC to PC calling worldwide with voicemail http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com > | 10432|10401|2006-02-08 19:47:43|Puck III|Re: Almost finish|Neat neat neat Marcel ! Smart to install the Ham & Pactor in a drawer , nobody's business you have it onboard :-) SailMail has a private remailstation in Belgium. Keep me posted , I'l bring the Flemish Water :-) The Med is fine , with the Canadian flag you will be welcomed. Old Ben --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Marcel Demers" wrote: > > Bonjour Rowland > > The wood I used inside the boat, teak-sherry wood- white pine- red and > yellow cedar- white oak-and 40 year old cedar, all came from just about > everywhere some from my brother's land (sherry wood) some from a sofa and > small tables a coworker wanted to get rid of (white oak) some from pieces of > wood I gathered in the garage through the years and the rest on sale at Rona > store (balance of stock) The one I used for the settees, the fridge and the > inside steering station is the yellow cedar I got on sale from the Rona > store. > I have put some drawings and pictures in my album ( Marcel's boat) the > drawings are not very large if you want to, send me an email address so I > can send you larger pictures of the drawings.. > By the way I appreciate all your feedbacks ...........merci beaucoup > Marcel > > > Now for my own question. lol What type of wood did you use on the > > interior, specifically on the vertical pieces of the setees, > > steering station, fridge etc.? It looks like birch but I have also > > seen teak that looks similair. Either way it is very nice. Could you > > post some more details and perhapsa drawing regarding those vents, > > they sound very intersting? > > > > Thanks and congrats on a well done project again, > > Rowland > | 10433|10401|2006-02-08 21:33:20|cirejay|Re: Almost finish|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Marcel Demers" wrote: > > Bonjour Eric > >all I can say is last winter I had a 2 gallons jugg feeding > it by gravity and in the big cold I had the dial set at 6 and 7 and it used > the 2 gallons in about a day and a haft or two, and the boat was not > completly finished inside. > Hope it helps.... Marcel, yes, it's a great help, Thanks eric S/V Nebaras| 10434|10434|2006-02-09 00:48:46|jericoera|Woodstove-will it work?|I posted some pics of the woodstove I am making out of 316 stainless scrap. Its under photo section "McIntosh's boat" I will know on Saturday if it is going to work when I test fire it outside. Legs are going on tomorrow and i will be fixing up my welds etc. I started this stove with after only welding three times previous so will see what happens. I am concerned with the drum body portion of the stove only being 1/8" thick that it will warp to beat hell but the door and stove front is 1/4" thick. Carl McIntosh| 10435|10434|2006-02-09 06:37:49|cirejay|Re: Woodstove-will it work?|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "jericoera" wrote: > > I posted some pics of the woodstove I am making out of 316 stainless > scrap. Its under photo section "McIntosh's boat" Hey Carl, it looks cool. Worse comes to worse, you could end up with an over the top smoker. Hope it works great for you. Maybe we can get Brent to design an origami stove. eric S/V Nebaras| 10436|10436|2006-02-09 11:24:34|SHANE ROTHWELL|Cheap diesels & yuhlo's|Hi guys, by mounting outboard I meant completely ventilated & drained outboard of the hull. so I agree, done properly in a well is safe. someone had mentioned using a petrol engine inside a steel boat...scary When I mentioned "imagine that in a steel boat" I meant 'imagine a gas engine fire/explosion on a steel boat' it'd be more like a bomb as it's stronger & chances of surviving an explosion would be less than in a plastic boat (though neither would be fun). Re Thai ballanced engines. Loud you say. Very but also cheap & I'm pretty deaf. __________________________________________________________ Find your next car at http://autos.yahoo.ca| 10437|10436|2006-02-09 12:32:39|sae140|Re: Cheap diesels & yuhlo's|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, SHANE ROTHWELL wrote: > > Hi guys, > > by mounting outboard I meant completely ventilated & > drained outboard of the hull. so I agree, done > properly in a well is safe. someone had mentioned > using a petrol engine inside a steel boat...scary Hi Shane without doubt, what you suggest is the safest method, but there are a couple of negatives worth mentioning when hanging an outboard 'on the back' ... The first is that the prop can easily become airborne in a chop - which makes for some very interesting sound effects ! The second is that if you happen to have a large stern locker between the cockpit and the transom (like my aging old tub has), then starting the outboard requires hanging half-out of the boat - which is ok on a fine sunny day, but no fun at all in a blow. Compromise, compromise, ain't boats always a compromise. > When I mentioned "imagine that in a steel boat" I > meant 'imagine a gas engine fire/explosion on a steel > boat' it'd be more like a bomb as it's stronger & > chances of surviving an explosion would be less than > in a plastic boat (though neither would be fun). Yesterday I tried to find some statistics on boat explosions and their exact causes. Surprisingly I found these statistics impossible to source. During the search I came across: http://www.oceannavigator.com/article.php?a=7031 which describes how petrol fumes from a canister stored on deck are thought to have leaked past the mast boot and down into the bilges - so a massive explosion resulted, but ironically not as the result of any kind of faulty gas engine install. Personally I prefer to store gasoline either in a self- draining anchor locker, or in a deck locker venting overboard. What I did discover - in the most general of terms - was that the North American approach seems to be about 'fixing' the gas problem, by the use of flash-back arrestors on carbs, spark arrestors on alternators and ignition circuits, and the use of fan fume-extractors. In contrast, the UK safety approach seems to be more directed at ensuring that the fumes find their way overboard and not into the cabin - at least that's the overall impression I was left with after an hour's searching. So - maybe there's a case for adopting both approaches ? I'm all for belt and braces. There was a great story a few months back about a bloke who took a converted fishing trawler to sea, which started taking on serious water after only a few days. He duly tried all methods of summoning help without success, so in the early hours of the morning as a last-ditch 'nothing left to lose' attempt to alert any vessels of their plight which might be within sight, he launched the liferaft and began to set fire to the wooden trawler. He emptied a couple of 5 gallon jerry- cans of petrol into the cabin, then tossed in a lighted match. As you might imagine, he promptly exited the boat backwards with the speed and grace of a polaris missile. Duhhh ... Colin| 10438|10434|2006-02-09 15:22:06|kingsknight4life|Re: Woodstove-will it work?|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "cirejay" wrote: > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "jericoera" wrote: >> > Maybe we can get Brent to design an origami stove. > > eric S/V Nebaras He has. It's in his book. : ) > | 10439|10434|2006-02-09 15:58:50|jericoera|Re: Woodstove-will it work?|Tomorrow is test day for the stove. I am aware how stainless can be tempermental; when welding if too much heat is applied so I am going to be paranoid the first couple burns in the stove until I see that it doesn't twist and look like smashed up pop can. One guy told me it looks like a boiler and another guy asked me if I was building a still? I must admit getting a good chuckle out of that one. Carl McIntosh --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "kingsknight4life" wrote: > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "cirejay" wrote: > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "jericoera" wrote: > >> > > Maybe we can get Brent to design an origami stove. > > > > eric S/V Nebaras > > He has. It's in his book. : ) > > > | 10440|10440|2006-02-09 16:02:17|Jim Phillips|Hooray for electronic junk!|Here's an interesting poem found on a noticebboard in Fiji by my old man.... I imagine that Brent would probably love the point it makes. I must go down to the sea again, in a modern high-tech boat, And all I ask is electric, for comfort while afloat, And alternators, and solar panels, and generators going, and deep cycle batteries with many amperes flowing. I must go down to the sea again, to the autopilot's ways, And all I ask is a GPS, and a radar, and displays, And a cell phone, and a weatherfax, and a shortwave radio, And compact disks, computer games and TV videos. I must go down to the sea again, with a freezer full of steaks, And all I ask is a microwave, and a blender for milkshakes, And a watermaker, air-conditioner, hot water in the sink, And e-mail and a VHF to see what my buddies think. I must go down to the sea again, with power-furling sails, And chart displays of all the seas, and a bullhorn for loud hails, And motors pulling anchor chains, and push-button sheets, And programs which take full charge of tacking during beats. I must go down to the sea again, and not leave friends behind, And so they never get seasick we'll use the web online, And all I ask is an Internet with satellites over me, And beaming all the data up, my friends sail virtually. I must go down to the sea again, record the humpback whales, Compute until I decipher their language and their tales, And learn to sing in harmony, converse beneath the waves, And befriend the gentle giants as my synthesizer plays. I must go down to the sea again, with RAM in gigabytes, and teraflops of processing for hobbies that I like, And software suiting all my wants, seated at my console And pushing on the buttons which give me complete control. I must go down to the sea again, my concept seems quite sound, But when I simulate this boat, some problems I have found. The cost is astronomical, repairs will never stop, Instead of going sailing, I'll be shackled to the dock. I must go down to the sea again, how can I get away? Must I be locked in low-tech boats until my dying day? Is there no cure for my complaint, no technologic fix? Oh, I fear electric fever is a habit I can't kick.| 10441|10434|2006-02-09 16:06:19|Wesley Cox|Re: Woodstove-will it work?|I don't have time to research this, so this is just off the top of my head. Anyone, please correct me if I'm wrong. It might be prudent to consider the possibility that, at least initially, some chromium may evaporate from the stainless. Breathing even minute amounts of chromium-6 (I think it's 6), and maybe other isotopes, is very dangerous. jericoera wrote: >Tomorrow is test day for the stove. I am aware how stainless can be >tempermental; when welding if too much heat is applied so I am going >to be paranoid the first couple burns in the stove until I see that it >doesn't twist and look like smashed up pop can. > >One guy told me it looks like a boiler and another guy asked me if I >was building a still? I must admit getting a good chuckle out of that >one. > >Carl McIntosh > >--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "kingsknight4life" > wrote: > > >>--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "cirejay" wrote: >> >> >>>--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "jericoera" >>> >>> >wrote: > > >>>Maybe we can get Brent to design an origami stove. >>> >>>eric S/V Nebaras >>> >>> >>He has. It's in his book. : ) >> >> > > > > > > >To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com >To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > | 10442|10434|2006-02-09 16:54:26|edward_stoneuk|Re: Woodstove-will it work?|Carl, I shouldn't think that the cylinder will warp. I remember a wood stove made from 40 gallon oil drums one above the other. The fire box was the bottom one with a door at the front and at the back on top a flue connecting to the drum above which was a kind of a secondary chamber with the chimney coming out of it on top at the front. The one I saw was in a earthmoving plant workshop in Australia in 1971. They used it sometimes on the night shift. It worked well. Cylinders are very strong. The door fit to the front panel might change though. I would wear gloves to open the door or move the damper as they will get hot. Might need a another damper on the chimney to stop it burning too fast although that might cause a problem with CO if it is a bit leaky. Good luck, Ted| 10443|10434|2006-02-09 18:47:21|Aaron|Re: Woodstove-will it work?|Looks like an exelent design and (as long as the welds dont leak... :) you have many many years of saltwater service. You could make a stack rober and even run a heater coil for hot water. A friend of mine built his that way for his house in Alaska. --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "edward_stoneuk" wrote: > > Carl, > I shouldn't think that the cylinder will warp. I remember a wood > stove made from 40 gallon oil drums one above the other. The fire box > was the bottom one with a door at the front and at the back on top a > flue connecting to the drum above which was a kind of a secondary > chamber with the chimney coming out of it on top at the front. The > one I saw was in a earthmoving plant workshop in Australia in 1971. > They used it sometimes on the night shift. It worked well. Cylinders > are very strong. The door fit to the front panel might change > though. I would wear gloves to open the door or move the damper as > they will get hot. Might need a another damper on the chimney to stop > it burning too fast although that might cause a problem with CO if it > is a bit leaky. > Good luck, > Ted > | 10444|10444|2006-02-09 19:36:00|mickeyolaf|Swain Builders Group|The other day I was looking at the differance between wholesale prices and retail. A block that was $58 wholesale was $94 retail. I don't know how many Swain Boats are being built here in BC but it seems there must be some substantial buying power in a group that large. I wonder if anyone has ever approached wholesale distributors and asked to set up an account to buy direct as a group as opposed to being a business. I know that the wholesalers try to protect their retailers and will refuse individuals off of the street. I know one large wholesaler has a sign on the front door "no public sales". There is a huge differance between the two pricing systems. Almost double. And depending how many parts you buy, as opposed to make, the differance in the end finishing cost can be thousands. Also by the way the Seattle Marine Swap Meet is on this year at Gas Works Park on April 8. The info is in 48 North Magazine. See you there.| 10445|10434|2006-02-09 19:36:13|brentswain38|Re: Woodstove-will it work?|Cylinders don't warp. Only flat surfaces do.On a flat sided stove, putting a slight outward curve in the panels will cause them to only bulge slightly when hot, rather than oilcan. A piece of chain hanging from the door handle gives you something cool to open the door with as heat doesn't travel along a chain much. Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "edward_stoneuk" wrote: > > Carl, > I shouldn't think that the cylinder will warp. I remember a wood > stove made from 40 gallon oil drums one above the other. The fire box > was the bottom one with a door at the front and at the back on top a > flue connecting to the drum above which was a kind of a secondary > chamber with the chimney coming out of it on top at the front. The > one I saw was in a earthmoving plant workshop in Australia in 1971. > They used it sometimes on the night shift. It worked well. Cylinders > are very strong. The door fit to the front panel might change > though. I would wear gloves to open the door or move the damper as > they will get hot. Might need a another damper on the chimney to stop > it burning too fast although that might cause a problem with CO if it > is a bit leaky. > Good luck, > Ted > | 10446|10400|2006-02-09 19:39:55|brentswain38|Re: Outboatds & Yuloh's|if you can seal a steel boat airtight easily , the fire wil go out quickly as the amount of oxygen inside will not suppoprt any kind of seroious fire for long. Gas can explode which diesel won't unless it is quite hot. Yanmar makes a diesel outboard .I saw them on workboats in Tonga. Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Michael Casling wrote: > > Actually I have been on board when a 302 Ford backfired through the carburettor and caught fire. > The timing chain can jump a tooth on those engines. > But steel construction did not save the lives of people on the Estonia ferry, and the boat that just went down in the Red Sea. > The steel itself may survive reasonably well but there is usually sufficient other materials to make a steel boat an unsafe place with a fire on board. > I think the original reference to a diesel outboard was something like small compact light etcetera, and they do not exist. > They do exist when run on petrol, and others have described the good and the bad aspects of them. > I try to determine a products value by how well it will perform in an emergency. Unfortunately an OBM will not drive many boats to windward in heavy wind and short steep waves. > > Michael > ----- Original Message ----- > From: SHANE ROTHWELL > To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Tuesday, February 07, 2006 9:03 AM > Subject: [origamiboats] Outboatds & Yuloh's > > > Ever seen the combo of glass & gas after someone > forgets to turn on the blower before firing it up? > Maybe it's their day, no fuel leaks/no reprocussions. > Maybe it ain't their day & just a wee littel leak.... > the results are impressive to say the least. Imagine > the same on a steel boat..... > > You can buy diesel outboard engines but they're very > expensive & it's cost you are looking to save isn't > it? > > If you are going to go with a gas outboard, install > them just like they recommend, 'outboard' > > Another way of doing cheap power is to mount an engine > on a ballanced rig with a long shaft, Thai style. Use > any engine you can get your hands on. these guys mount > everything from little 3 hp gas engines to huge diesel > V8's this way. very clever & very cheap. the whole > thing is ballanced on a single pin, just like a yuloh. > Most have no gear box but some do. They're perfectly > ballanced can be operated by a child. start the donk & > dip the prop which is at the end of a very long shaft > in teh water & way you go. Very cool > > Not too many yuloh's around Hong kong anymore but you > still see some big old fishing junks manoevering with > them in the typhoon shelters. Pretty impressive how > much can be moved with em, about 1.5 knott in calm > conditions for 45' of boat. 4-5 tonns at a guess. > Lookes almost effortless, maybe becuz they are using > their legs not arms. > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________________ > Find your next car at http://autos.yahoo.ca > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats- unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > SPONSORED LINKS British columbia canada Vancouver island Yacht > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------- > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > a.. Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web. > > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------- > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > | 10447|10425|2006-02-09 19:43:35|brentswain38|Re: Digest Number 1456|Car or van diesels work well. You just need to adapt a marine transmission to the back and weld up a watercooled manifold, a couple of hours work.If you buy a beater with a diesel in you can terst drive it before putting it in your boat. If it starts easily in cold weather it's probably a good one. Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, ANDREW AIREY wrote: > > Hi Everyone > > re Cheap Diesel > > Why can't you just use a car or van diesel > engine.Being more specific - what do you need to do to > marinise such an engine.I'm in the UK so there is no > shortage of such engines and prices are very > reasonable.Actually an ex fork truck unit might be > better since this would be coupled to a hydraulic pump > which could then be used with a suitable motor to > power an outboard drive unit,bow thrusters,anchor > hoists etc > Cheers > Andy Airey > > > > > > ___________________________________________________________ > Yahoo! Messenger - NEW crystal clear PC to PC calling worldwide with voicemail http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com > | 10448|10444|2006-02-09 19:47:19|brentswain38|Re: Swain Builders Group|The blocks shown in my book cost about a dollar or less and take about 20 minutes to build.Best avoid commercialy made products wherever possible. Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "mickeyolaf" wrote: > > The other day I was looking at the differance between wholesale prices > and retail. A block that was $58 wholesale was $94 retail. > I don't know how many Swain Boats are being built here in BC but it > seems there must be some substantial buying power in a group that > large. > I wonder if anyone has ever approached wholesale distributors and > asked to set up an account to buy direct as a group as opposed to > being a business. I know that the wholesalers try to protect their > retailers and will refuse individuals off of the street. I know one > large wholesaler has a sign on the front door "no public sales". > There is a huge differance between the two pricing systems. Almost > double. And depending how many parts you buy, as opposed to make, the > differance in the end finishing cost can be thousands. > Also by the way the Seattle Marine Swap Meet is on this year at Gas > Works Park on April 8. The info is in 48 North Magazine. See you there. > | 10449|10434|2006-02-09 20:33:39|jericoera|Re: Woodstove-will it work?|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Wesley Cox wrote: > > I don't have time to research this, so this is just off the top of my > head. Anyone, please correct me if I'm wrong. It might be prudent to > consider the possibility that, at least initially, some chromium may > evaporate from the stainless. Breathing even minute amounts of > chromium-6 (I think it's 6), and maybe other isotopes, is very dangerous. > > jericoera wrote: > > >Tomorrow is test day for the stove. I am aware how stainless can be > >tempermental; when welding if too much heat is applied so I am going > >to be paranoid the first couple burns in the stove until I see that it > >doesn't twist and look like smashed up pop can. > > > >One guy told me it looks like a boiler and another guy asked me if I > >was building a still? I must admit getting a good chuckle out of that > >one. > > > >Carl McIntosh > > > >--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "kingsknight4life" > > wrote: > > > > > >>--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "cirejay" wrote: > >> > >> > >>>--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "jericoera" > >>> > >>> > >wrote: > > > > > >>>Maybe we can get Brent to design an origami stove. > >>> > >>>eric S/V Nebaras > >>> > >>> > >>He has. It's in his book. : ) > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > >To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats- unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > | 10451|10451|2006-02-09 23:13:31|Puck III|Low cost windgenerator|Something interesting I found , I am gone look for some testing materials , does anybody tried such system ??? Old Ben --- In LowCostVoyaging@yahoogroups.com, "Dwight Yachuk" wrote: > > While in Grenada I saw an alternator with a small propellor mounted on the bow of a boat. It was turning while the other wind generators were turning. Not sure how muchpower it generated but it look cheap to build and the wind is free.| 10452|10434|2006-02-10 05:16:23|edward_stoneuk|Re: Woodstove-will it work?|Wesley, Carl My book (Engineering Formulas 4th Edition, Kurt Gieck, McGraw-Hill Book Company 1983)says that the melting point of Chromium is 1,800°C (3272°F)and the boiling point is 2,700°C (4,892°F). If you get your stove that hot I will be impressed. Regards, Ted| 10453|10453|2006-02-10 05:26:58|sae140|Anti-fouling - yet again ....|We've discussed anti-fouling here before .... In one of this month's Mags I noticed there's an article entitled 'The End of Anti-Fouling' - in which metallic copper powder methods (not oxides) are described. One method uses the metal powder mixed with epoxy and then applied, another employs a technique where the epoxy is applied first, then the powder is sprayed onto the epoxy whilst the surface is still tacky. Claims for 15 years effective anti-fouling are being made. BTW - have you ever noticed that coral doesn't suffer from barnacle build-up ?? Coral releases a substance very close to synthetic palmitic oil which keeps it free of unwelcomed guests. Maybe the paint-makers should have a re-think about how to deal with this perennial problem ? Colin| 10454|10454|2006-02-10 06:30:32|sae140|Hybrid Seagull outboard|If anyone's a wizz at engineering, a good sailing auxillary outboard engine could be made from a small vertical-shaft lawn-mower engine (Honda, Tecumseh - a couple of HP would be plenty) mated to the leg of one of the bigger longshaft Seagull engines. The 100 cc Seagull engine only produces around 1 HP, but with it's 4:1 reduction box and large prop (the 102 has a 13" 4-bladed clover-leaf prop, the Silver Century Plus has an 11" 5-bladed 'hydrofan' prop) they can shift quite large displacement vessels under calm conditions. The manufacturers claim 30 tons displacement, but I think this is a tad over-optimistic. The 102's were certainly used for moving bridge-laying equipment/ heavy pontoons etc during WWII. A modern 4-stroke block would give easier starting and better fuel economy, as well as producing less smoke. The exhaust could still be fed down the leg along with water-injection from the existing Seagull pump housing. Colin| 10455|10454|2006-02-10 07:41:32|audeojude|Re: Hybrid Seagull outboard|actually an even better idea would be a eteck electric motor mounted on one of the seagulls.. then have your batteries or generator directly driving it. 4 to 8 hp out of an eteck is well within the capabilities of a small diesel generator to drive for continuious power. Generator could be installed anywhere.. again you could get rid of hole in bottom of boat and drag of prop. Do two of them.. one on each side of the transom on slides going up and down and you could even have aux power under sail out of one of them when heeled. they weigh about 22 lbs? i think each.. plus the weight of the segull lower unit.. If building boat this way from start then take and substitute some of the lead in keels for AGM batteries for big battery banks. seal batteries in there with vent going above decks. Between diesel generator, solar panels on stern arch and wind generator you would be self sufficiant for lots of electric on boat. shoot you probably could even get an hours motoring a day out of just solar and wind generating capability. lol... old subject i know.. one of these years I will be trying this... I will let you know how it works out. scott --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "sae140" wrote: > > If anyone's a wizz at engineering, a good sailing auxillary > outboard engine could be made from a small vertical-shaft > lawn-mower engine (Honda, Tecumseh - a couple of HP would > be plenty) mated to the leg of one of the bigger longshaft > Seagull engines. The 100 cc Seagull engine only produces > around 1 HP, but with it's 4:1 reduction box and large prop > (the 102 has a 13" 4-bladed clover-leaf prop, the Silver > Century Plus has an 11" 5-bladed 'hydrofan' prop) they can > shift quite large displacement vessels under calm conditions. > The manufacturers claim 30 tons displacement, but I think this > is a tad over-optimistic. The 102's were certainly used for > moving bridge-laying equipment/ heavy pontoons etc during WWII. > > A modern 4-stroke block would give easier starting and better > fuel economy, as well as producing less smoke. The exhaust > could still be fed down the leg along with water-injection > from the existing Seagull pump housing. > > Colin > | 10456|10434|2006-02-10 11:46:37|Wesley Cox|Re: Woodstove-will it work?|What about vapor pressures at lower temperatures? edward_stoneuk wrote: >Wesley, Carl >My book (Engineering Formulas 4th Edition, Kurt Gieck, McGraw-Hill >Book Company 1983)says that the melting point of Chromium is 1,800°C >(3272°F)and the boiling point is 2,700°C (4,892°F). If you get your >stove that hot I will be impressed. >Regards, >Ted > > > > > >To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com >To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > | 10457|10434|2006-02-10 13:21:06|edward_stoneuk|Re: Woodstove-will it work?|Wesley, No good asking me. I am not that knowledgable. I would prefer it if you told me about vapour pressures at lower temperatures. I have a stainless steel kerosene stove and in the photo section I see stainless steel wood stoves. and stainless steel flues. I had chrome plated exhaust pipes on my Triumph. Is this something else to worry about? Regards, Ted > > What about vapor pressures at lower temperatures? > > > edward_stoneuk wrote: > > >Wesley, Carl > >My book (Engineering Formulas 4th Edition, Kurt Gieck, McGraw- Hill > >Book Company 1983)says that the melting point of Chromium is 1,800°C > >(3272°F)and the boiling point is 2,700°C (4,892°F). If you get your > >stove that hot I will be impressed. > >Regards, > >Ted > > > > > > > > > > > >To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > >To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats- unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > | 10458|10434|2006-02-10 14:35:09|Wesley Cox|Re: Woodstove-will it work?|Ok. I have some expertise in physics and chemistry. I'll do some research and post what I find. Except near the heat source, flues won't be as hot as a combustion chamber. Heat radiates in direct proportion to the 4th power of the temperature of the surface, so a flue cools *very* quickly along its length moving away from the heat source. A flue is hot to the touch far from the heat source, yes, but the part of it anywhere near the temp. of the chamber is very small. The same would apply for exhaust pipes. In either case the surface area of metal near combustion temps. is relatively small and my potential concern, even if it is valid, is relatively moot. If you've seen a commercially made stainless stove, that would hopefully indicate the manufacturer thinks it's safe, or at least safe enough they're willing to gamble on the potential law suits :-). Not to say that's conclusive proof, just one company's opinion or risk profile. I worked on various boilers as one of my gigs for 11 years until I relocated last September and I've never seen a high temp. stainless surface as part of a boiler. They were all mild steel. Again, I'm not stating an opinion as yet, just a *potential* concern based on the extreme toxicity of chromium. edward_stoneuk wrote: >Wesley, >No good asking me. I am not that knowledgable. I would prefer it if >you told me about vapour pressures at lower temperatures. I have a >stainless steel kerosene stove and in the photo section I see >stainless steel wood stoves. and stainless steel flues. I had >chrome plated exhaust pipes on my Triumph. Is this something else >to worry about? >Regards, >Ted > > > > > > >>What about vapor pressures at lower temperatures? >> >> >>edward_stoneuk wrote: >> >> >> >>>Wesley, Carl >>>My book (Engineering Formulas 4th Edition, Kurt Gieck, McGraw- >>> >>> >Hill > > >>>Book Company 1983)says that the melting point of Chromium is >>> >>> >1,800°C > > >>>(3272°F)and the boiling point is 2,700°C (4,892°F). If you get >>> >>> >your > > >>>stove that hot I will be impressed. >>>Regards, >>>Ted >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com >>>To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats- >>> >>> >unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > >>>Yahoo! Groups Links >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> > > > > > > >To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com >To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > | 10459|10434|2006-02-10 16:06:38|blueiceicle|Re: Woodstove-will it work?|Just at thought not sure if i read the last post correct. But in regards to stainless steel in boilers, it is quite common. I work in a boilermaker shop and probaly 1/3 of the vessels we build are stailesss steel claded with chromium. Today we are actualy shipping 1st of 2 Cokers that we just built to CNLR in Fort McMurray. its somwhere around 32ft dia, 168 feet or so. Most of the oilfield vessels and chemical reactors are stainless. This post is just a offhand note. Have a good day Jesse| 10460|10434|2006-02-10 17:30:05|put_to_sea|Re: Woodstove-will it work?|I always though stainless wasn't very good for a stove because as I understand it, stainless has much poorer heat transfer than mild steel or better yet, copper. So, does a stainless wood stove send a lot more btu's up the chimney tham a mild steel stove? Or, could I find a copper plate to use as the top of the stove?| 10461|10434|2006-02-10 18:00:47|audeojude|Re: Woodstove-will it work?|Stainless is used because it is much more corrosion resistant, if corrosion is not an issue then mild steel would be used. In a salt water or any water environment I would definately go with stainless steel. if corrosion is an issue then repetatively heating and cooling mild steel will cause it to corrode quicker.. cast iron is much more resistant than mild steel. But stainless is still the one to beat.... also i doulbt you will find much danger from the chromium content in stainless... way to many products on the market use it. someone would have made a stink by now if it was an issue. Line the stove with fire brick.. this gives the stove some protection from the flames and slows down long term corrosion of even stainless as well as providing thermal mass to store energy in rather than having it escape up the chimney.| 10462|10454|2006-02-10 18:35:52|kendall|Re: Hybrid Seagull outboard|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "audeojude" wrote: > > actually an even better idea would be a eteck electric motor mounted > on one of the seagulls.. then have your batteries or generator > directly driving it. 4 to 8 hp out of an eteck is well within the > capabilities of a small diesel generator to drive for continuious > power. Generator could be installed anywhere.. again you could get rid > of hole in bottom of boat and drag of prop. > > Do two of them.. one on each side of the transom on slides going up > and down and you could even have aux power under sail out of one of > them when heeled. they weigh about 22 lbs? i think each.. plus the > weight of the segull lower unit.. > > If building boat this way from start then take and substitute some of > the lead in keels for AGM batteries for big battery banks. seal > batteries in there with vent going above decks. Between diesel > generator, solar panels on stern arch and wind generator you would be > self sufficiant for lots of electric on boat. > > shoot you probably could even get an hours motoring a day out of just > solar and wind generating capability. > > lol... old subject i know.. one of these years I will be trying > this... I will let you know how it works out. > > scott > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "sae140" wrote: > > > > If anyone's a wizz at engineering, a good sailing auxillary > > outboard engine could be made from a small vertical-shaft > > lawn-mower engine (Honda, Tecumseh - a couple of HP would > > be plenty) mated to the leg of one of the bigger longshaft > > Seagull engines. The 100 cc Seagull engine only produces > > around 1 HP, but with it's 4:1 reduction box and large prop > > (the 102 has a 13" 4-bladed clover-leaf prop, the Silver > > Century Plus has an 11" 5-bladed 'hydrofan' prop) they can > > shift quite large displacement vessels under calm conditions. > > The manufacturers claim 30 tons displacement, but I think this > > is a tad over-optimistic. The 102's were certainly used for > > moving bridge-laying equipment/ heavy pontoons etc during WWII. > > > > A modern 4-stroke block would give easier starting and better > > fuel economy, as well as producing less smoke. The exhaust > > could still be fed down the leg along with water-injection > > from the existing Seagull pump housing. > > > > Colin > > > If you want to get realy creative, build a telescoping setup that would allow retracting the prop/lower unit, think drill press for the mechanics of it, seems like an easy setup actually, but it's an extra maintenance problem, that may or may not be offset by the reduced wear on the lower end. ken.| 10463|10434|2006-02-10 19:07:15|Wesley Cox|Re: Woodstove-will it work?|I can't find any data on chromium vapor pressures. It wouldn't be relevant at temps. significantly below its melting point of 1857 Celsius, 3375 Fahrenheit. I don't know the normal range of temps. in a typical wood stove, but it's likely 2000 degrees F is at the extreme. I retract my concern. edward_stoneuk wrote: >Wesley, >No good asking me. I am not that knowledgable. I would prefer it if >you told me about vapour pressures at lower temperatures. I have a >stainless steel kerosene stove and in the photo section I see >stainless steel wood stoves. and stainless steel flues. I had >chrome plated exhaust pipes on my Triumph. Is this something else >to worry about? >Regards, >Ted > > > > > > >>What about vapor pressures at lower temperatures? >> >> >>edward_stoneuk wrote: >> >> >> >>>Wesley, Carl >>>My book (Engineering Formulas 4th Edition, Kurt Gieck, McGraw- >>> >>> >Hill > > >>>Book Company 1983)says that the melting point of Chromium is >>> >>> >1,800°C > > >>>(3272°F)and the boiling point is 2,700°C (4,892°F). If you get >>> >>> >your > > >>>stove that hot I will be impressed. >>>Regards, >>>Ted >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com >>>To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats- >>> >>> >unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > >>>Yahoo! Groups Links >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> > > > > > > >To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com >To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > | 10464|10464|2006-02-10 23:46:04|Puck III|Doriak|Hi All , I like the dinghy on that website . I also like the Pilothouse with the mid or front cockpit on the Doriak. Its volume makes the boat selfrighting :-) A bit off Topic , worth looking at ??? http://www.doriak.com/ Old Ben| 10465|10434|2006-02-11 02:41:12|blueiceicle|Re: Woodstove-will it work?|My bad In my previous post i stated that stainless is used alot for pressure vessels. While this is true, like is said before they are stainless steel cladded with chromium . The reason being its clad is because a pure stainless vessel at high temps will distort. Stainless to my knowlege transfers heat very well which is why its distorts. I also was considering building a stainless stove, however im not sure if it wouldnt warp. A guy at work told me he used some 1/4 inch stainless for a fire pit top and it warped pretty bad. That said, ill leave it to the experts on metalurgy to figure this out. By the way, we shipped a coker out tonight, pretty impressive. The vessels just keep getten bigger and bigger. 1.3million pounds of steel rolling down the road. 2 more to build. Later Jesse| 10466|10434|2006-02-11 05:23:47|edward_stoneuk|Re: Woodstove-will it work?|Jesse, The coefficient of linear expansion is quite a lot more than mild steel, which is why it can catch one out when one welds it. The emmisivity of a polished shiny surface is less than a black surface. My understanding is that a black stove will give off more heat than a polished or shiny stove for the same amount of heat inside it. A fully chromed motorcycle engine will run hotter than if the cooling fins were left black. I have thought about blasting and painting black my kerosene stove to make it more efficient in giving out heat. Regards, Ted| 10467|10434|2006-02-11 11:37:31|jericoera|Re: Woodstove-will it work?|I am just going out to fire it up now. Prediction: It won't warp much if any. The temp of a welding rod at contact must vastly exceed that of fire and as there are multiple compound curves on the stove, it should be strong much like an origami frameless boat. If it were simply a piece of flat metal unattached to anything being heated from the bottom like that fire pit example, I could see how it would warp. Worst case scenario, it will make a funky piece of folk art if it twists to oblivion. Carl mcIntosh --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "edward_stoneuk" wrote: > > Jesse, > > The coefficient of linear expansion is quite a lot more than mild > steel, which is why it can catch one out when one welds it. The > emmisivity of a polished shiny surface is less than a black surface. > My understanding is that a black stove will give off more heat than a > polished or shiny stove for the same amount of heat inside it. A > fully chromed motorcycle engine will run hotter than if the cooling > fins were left black. I have thought about blasting and painting > black my kerosene stove to make it more efficient in giving out heat. > > Regards, > Ted > | 10468|10434|2006-02-11 14:38:29|brentswain38|Re: Woodstove-will it work?|The shiny life of a stainless stove is very brief. Get a glowing hot fire going in it and it turns black rather quickly.That doesn't seem to affect it's corrosion resistance . Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "edward_stoneuk" wrote: > > Jesse, > > The coefficient of linear expansion is quite a lot more than mild > steel, which is why it can catch one out when one welds it. The > emmisivity of a polished shiny surface is less than a black surface. > My understanding is that a black stove will give off more heat than a > polished or shiny stove for the same amount of heat inside it. A > fully chromed motorcycle engine will run hotter than if the cooling > fins were left black. I have thought about blasting and painting > black my kerosene stove to make it more efficient in giving out heat. > > Regards, > Ted > | 10469|10434|2006-02-11 16:51:35|Carl Volkwein|Re: Woodstove-will it work?|Fire bricks make your fire last longer too Carl from W.V. audeojude wrote: Stainless is used because it is much more corrosion resistant, if corrosion is not an issue then mild steel would be used. In a salt water or any water environment I would definately go with stainless steel. if corrosion is an issue then repetatively heating and cooling mild steel will cause it to corrode quicker.. cast iron is much more resistant than mild steel. But stainless is still the one to beat.... also i doulbt you will find much danger from the chromium content in stainless... way to many products on the market use it. someone would have made a stink by now if it was an issue. Line the stove with fire brick.. this gives the stove some protection from the flames and slows down long term corrosion of even stainless as well as providing thermal mass to store energy in rather than having it escape up the chimney. To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com SPONSORED LINKS British columbia canada Vancouver island Yacht --------------------------------- YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. --------------------------------- --------------------------------- Brings words and photos together (easily) with PhotoMail - it's free and works with Yahoo! Mail. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]| 10470|10454|2006-02-11 17:11:24|..|Hybrid Seagull outboard|Hi Colin, One of the small light weight diesel engines would be better. Geoff If anyone's a wizz at engineering, a good sailing auxillary outboard engine could be made from a small vertical-shaft lawn-mower engine (Honda, Tecumseh - a couple of HP would be plenty) mated to the leg of one of the bigger longshaft Seagull engines. The 100 cc Seagull engine only produces around 1 HP, but with it's 4:1 reduction box and large prop (the 102 has a 13" 4-bladed clover-leaf prop, the Silver Century Plus has an 11" 5-bladed 'hydrofan' prop) they can shift quite large displacement vessels under calm conditions. The manufacturers claim 30 tons displacement, but I think this is a tad over-optimistic. The 102's were certainly used for moving bridge-laying equipment/ heavy pontoons etc during WWII. A modern 4-stroke block would give easier starting and better fuel economy, as well as producing less smoke. The exhaust could still be fed down the leg along with water-injection from the existing Seagull pump housing. 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GROUPS LINKS * Visit your group "HYPERLINK "http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats"origamiboats" on the web. * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HYPERLINK "mailto:origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe"origami boats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the HYPERLINK "http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/"Yahoo! Terms of Service. _____ --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.859 / Virus Database: 585 - Release Date: 14/02/2005 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.859 / Virus Database: 585 - Release Date: 14/02/2005 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]| 10471|10434|2006-02-11 18:09:55|edward_stoneuk|Re: Woodstove-will it work?|Brent, I guess it might improve its heat output as it matures. Most home built stoves, like Carl's appears to be in the photos will be made of hot rolled rather than cold rolled sheet so it is not that shiny in the first place. My kerosene stove, which I bought secondhand is thin polished sheet. It has an asbestos type sheet insulation under the top cover, I guess to stop discoloring and warping. It is quite old so it probably is asbestos. Regards, Ted --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "brentswain38" wrote: > > The shiny life of a stainless stove is very brief. Get a glowing hot > fire going in it and it turns black rather quickly.That doesn't seem to > affect it's corrosion resistance . > Brent | 10472|9840|2006-02-11 21:20:05|tazmannusa|BS 26|Hello All Finaly have some nice weather and I got back after it, anyway I got the fordeck installed and the side decks cut out today and if things go right I will have the side decks in tommorrow. The side decking I narrowed up to 15" instead of 18" so I can run more angle on the cabin sides, hopefully it turns out ok. I posted a couple more pictures in origamiboats2 . I am useing 12 gage- 2.5 mm for the decking and cabin structure and I will say one thing about it, if you look at it to hard it bends Tom| 10473|10473|2006-02-11 22:22:33|jericoera|My shiny woodstove!!|Well, I test fired the stove today after fixing some cold welds I had and it worked like a charm and throws out plenty of heat. I did have to balance a short length of pipe on the collar to act as a chimney to get the proper draft but after that it was away to the races. Brent is 100 percent correct, the shiny stove is now a golden color because of the heat and also correct stating that the cyclinder wouldn't warp. I put a gradual fire in it over the morning and then fired it right up with some well cured fir and watched it to see if it would self destruct. Actually, the heat burnt oout some slag I missed and now all the moving parts of the sove are actually moving better!! No complaints except it looks like R2D2 or some throw back from the Apollo missions. Check out the pic on my photo page and ignore the goofy touque-hey it keeps my balding head warm! Carl McIntosh| 10474|10474|2006-02-12 21:19:42|sexysexy254|Looking for a better SEX partner!|I'm hot single, I'm looking for a better SEX partner! Check my live webcams and hot SEXY photos here: http://www.findsexysingle.com/sex/hotsex.htm| 10475|10475|2006-02-13 01:08:00|jericoera|A final wood stove thoought|The excitement is over for the wood stove-on to the next pieces of the boat but a final thought for anyone contemplating building one. One of the best design features that I ended up with accidentally and I highly recommend you consider if you build a wood stove is the way I hung the door. By having the pivot a few inches away from the door, the door swings entirely out of the way when you are loading wood. This is good for several reasons: (1) The door which is hot is less likely to get touched by you and burn you as it is completely out of the way. (Safety!!) (2) With the door out of the way, it makes loading the wood into the opening much easier (3) The accessibility to the stove inside makes it a breeze to clean out. Just a thought Carl McIntosh| 10476|10476|2006-02-13 03:17:52|Puck III|Sale on eBay !|Hi All ,Hi Chris , Hi Tord , just an interesting repost : Sale on eBay for the real connaisseurs :-) --- In proa_file@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III" wrote: > > HOT or COLD ? that's the question ! > W. Chouffespeare > http://tinyurl.com/78epy > > what member is well known for quotes by > W. Sheakspeare ?? > > A Chouffe Coffee a day > keeps the doctor away > while sailing :-) > > OB san ------------- more direct and special info : http://tinyurl.com/9sm4o on the photo in a most interesting gallery for microcruising fans a drink onboard never killed anybody :-) Old Ben | 10477|10477|2006-02-13 15:51:55|blueiceicle|Looking for a building site, Edmonton A.B.|Hello group. Due in part to the unseasonable warm weather were having here in alberta, im hoping to fast track my project bye a few months. Im currently living in old strathacona in edmonton, and was wondering if there anyone who has or knows of suitable site that i could use to start my 28ft twin keeler. I currently have one possible building site however it is just over a hour out of the city in Buzzby. Idealy i would like to find something a little closer. If anyone has or knows of a patch of field or what not that i could make some sort of arrangemnt with the owner, it would be greatly appreciated. I work evening shifts at Cessco Fabricating and Engineering in downtown edmonton, which doesnt leave me with a whole lot of free time. So im was hoping to speed up the seach process here. And for anyone else in the edmonton area thinking of building,id love to help out and to also mention that the price for 10g is down to 59c hundred wieght. Im opting to go for 3 sheets of 6'x20' mild steel 10g. After months of debating on the pre primed versus raw steel, and checking into the price for sandblasting. I think its a better bet to go raw steel all the way and shell out the 1200-1500 to have the whole thing blasted and primed. I look forward to any input. Sincerly Jesse| 10478|10478|2006-02-13 17:17:37|ANDREW AIREY|Re: Digest Number 1461|Hi All Many years ago when I was interested in Vincent Motorcycles a friend who was making stainless steel exhaust systems for them said that there was a problem with discolouration.I think he was using 18/8 grade.Apparently repeated heating and cooling causes iron to migrate to the crystal boundaries where it oxidises giving the pipes a straw colour.Eventually the pipes could fall apart although I never heard of this actually happening Cheers Andy Airey .> Subject: Re: Woodstove-will it work? > > Stainless is used because it is much more corrosion > resistant, if > corrosion is not an issue then mild steel would be > used. In a salt > water or any water environment I would definately go > with stainless > steel. if corrosion is an issue then repetatively > heating and cooling > mild steel will cause it to corrode quicker.. cast > iron is much more > resistant than mild steel. But stainless is still > the one to beat.... > also i doulbt you will find much danger from the > chromium content in > stainless... way to many products on the market use > it. someone would > have made a stink by now if it was an issue. > > Line the stove with fire brick.. this gives the > stove some protection > from the flames and slows down long term corrosion > of even stainless > as well as providing thermal mass to store energy in > rather than > having it escape up the chimney. > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > ___________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Photos – NEW, now offering a quality print service from just 8p a photo http://uk.photos.yahoo.com| 10479|10477|2006-02-14 04:12:34|Alex Christie|Re: Looking for a building site, Edmonton A.B.|The priming is nice for this inside though, since it is out of the weather, it is safe from wear, and can be coated as is. Just imagine digging all that sound out of the various spots inside... Sounds like some steel costs are going down? Alex| 10480|10477|2006-02-14 16:43:34|blueiceicle|Re: Looking for a building site, Edmonton A.B.|I plan to have it done proffesionaly, and they have some pretty big vacums for sucking out sand and silica from them hard to reach places. There is so much competetion in the edmonton for sandblasting that its actualy cost efffective to blast then to order pre primed. And in the end i believe that a thourly sandblasted boat is best. Jesse > The priming is nice for this inside though, since it is out of the > weather, it is safe from wear, and can be coated as is. Just imagine > digging all that sound out of the various spots inside... > > Sounds like some steel costs are going down? > > Alex > | 10481|10481|2006-02-14 17:46:52|Fernando Ramos Paes de Carvalho|origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com|-----Original Message----- From: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com on behalf of blueiceicle Sent: Tue 2/14/2006 17:33 To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Subject: Spam:[origamiboats] Re: Looking for a building site, Edmonton A.B. I plan to have it done proffesionaly, and they have some pretty big vacums for sucking out sand and silica from them hard to reach places. There is so much competetion in the edmonton for sandblasting that its actualy cost efffective to blast then to order pre primed. And in the end i believe that a thourly sandblasted boat is best. Jesse > The priming is nice for this inside though, since it is out of the > weather, it is safe from wear, and can be coated as is. Just imagine > digging all that sound out of the various spots inside... > > Sounds like some steel costs are going down? > > Alex > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]| 10482|10482|2006-02-15 10:01:32|prairiemaidca|Sand blasting Edmonton|Hi Jesse; You might be supprised how hard it is to get one of the blasters to even look at your project. When I was getting Prairie Maid's tanks done I contacted quite a few companys and with all the oil field work to be had they aren't all that interested in one small private job. If you can take it to their yard it's a different story. The one outfit out of Spruce Grove was the worst. I finally got them to commit to come out and look at the job and then they didn't even show up, not even a phone call. This from a co. that is only 15min. from my home. I do agree that a proper blast and paint is the way to go for a long lasting coating. I hope to get the ugly job done this spring. Martin..| 10483|10482|2006-02-15 11:24:30|tom|Re: Sand blasting Edmonton|I am also going to be faced with sandblasting this summer, I am figuring on renting a big blasting rig so I can get it done quickly + make sure its done right, my experience on hiring someone to do the job that doesn't really want to because its to small or ext. you will more than likely get it half assed done and here nothing but bull excuses. Tom ----- Original Message ----- From: "prairiemaidca" To: Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 6:58 AM Subject: [origamiboats] Sand blasting Edmonton > Hi Jesse; You might be supprised how hard it is to get one of the > blasters to even look at your project. When I was getting Prairie > Maid's tanks done I contacted quite a few companys and with all the oil > field work to be had they aren't all that interested in one small > private job. If you can take it to their yard it's a different story. > The one outfit out of Spruce Grove was the worst. I finally got them > to commit to come out and look at the job and then they didn't even > show up, not even a phone call. This from a co. that is only 15min. > from my home. I do agree that a proper blast and paint is the way to > go for a long lasting coating. I hope to get the ugly job done this > spring. Martin.. > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > | 10484|10482|2006-02-15 12:07:36|Puck III|Re: Sand blasting Edmonton|Hi Guys , please have a look how easy it is to bring the boat to the blasters . Real nice selfexplaining pic in : http://www.boatbuilding.ws/ What is gone be the cheapest way to work on an engine later, bringing the mechanic to the boat , or the boat to the mechanic? If it aint to big a distance... I presume... The boat may enjoy a first little trip :-) You could even consider parking a painted finished hull and deck a bit nearer to home !! Will you build the interior in your garage or in the boat? Much more easy to do the actual work on groundlevel and assemble it in the boat . Hehehe , we almost forgot , will you bring the Foamers to the boat or the boat to the Foamers :-) Ask a quotation for both . Pay me a beer is you save money :-) Old Ben --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "tom" wrote: > > I am also going to be faced with sandblasting this summer, I am figuring on > renting a big blasting rig so I can get it done quickly + make sure its done > right, my experience on hiring someone to do the job that doesn't really > want to because its to small or ext. you will more than likely get it half > assed done and here nothing but bull excuses. > Tom > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "prairiemaidca" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 6:58 AM > Subject: [origamiboats] Sand blasting Edmonton > > > > Hi Jesse; You might be supprised how hard it is to get one of the > > blasters to even look at your project. When I was getting Prairie > > Maid's tanks done I contacted quite a few companys and with all the oil > > field work to be had they aren't all that interested in one small > > private job. If you can take it to their yard it's a different story. > > The one outfit out of Spruce Grove was the worst. I finally got them > > to commit to come out and look at the job and then they didn't even > > show up, not even a phone call. This from a co. that is only 15min. > > from my home. I do agree that a proper blast and paint is the way to > > go for a long lasting coating. I hope to get the ugly job done this > > spring. Martin.. > > > > > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > | 10485|10482|2006-02-15 13:14:40|tom|Re: Sand blasting Edmonton|Hello Old Ben On my 26 that wouldnt be a bad idea to haul it somewhere to get sandblasted, only one problem I could see is how long do you have to get paint on it before it rust? from what ive seen bare steel will rust overnight if outside in the open. I think it would have to be done in sections ie only blast what you can get painted in the same day ----- Original Message ----- From: "Puck III" To: Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 9:07 AM Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Sand blasting Edmonton > Hi Guys , please have a look how easy it is to bring > the boat to the blasters . Real nice selfexplaining pic in : > http://www.boatbuilding.ws/ > What is gone be the cheapest way to work on an engine later, > bringing the mechanic to the boat , or the boat to the mechanic? > If it aint to big a distance... I presume... > The boat may enjoy a first little trip :-) > You could even consider parking a painted finished > hull and deck a bit nearer to home !! > Will you build the interior in your garage or in the boat? > Much more easy to do the actual work on groundlevel > and assemble it in the boat . > Hehehe , we almost forgot , will you bring the Foamers > to the boat or the boat to the Foamers :-) > Ask a quotation for both . > Pay me a beer is you save money :-) > Old Ben > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "tom" wrote: >> >> I am also going to be faced with sandblasting this summer, I am > figuring on >> renting a big blasting rig so I can get it done quickly + make sure > its done >> right, my experience on hiring someone to do the job that doesn't > really >> want to because its to small or ext. you will more than likely get > it half >> assed done and here nothing but bull excuses. >> Tom >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "prairiemaidca" >> To: >> Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 6:58 AM >> Subject: [origamiboats] Sand blasting Edmonton >> >> >> > Hi Jesse; You might be supprised how hard it is to get one of the >> > blasters to even look at your project. When I was getting Prairie >> > Maid's tanks done I contacted quite a few companys and with all > the oil >> > field work to be had they aren't all that interested in one small >> > private job. If you can take it to their yard it's a different > story. >> > The one outfit out of Spruce Grove was the worst. I finally got > them >> > to commit to come out and look at the job and then they didn't > even >> > show up, not even a phone call. This from a co. that is only > 15min. >> > from my home. I do agree that a proper blast and paint is the > way to >> > go for a long lasting coating. I hope to get the ugly job done > this >> > spring. Martin.. >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com >> > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: >> > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com >> > Yahoo! Groups Links >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > | 10486|10482|2006-02-15 14:33:59|Gerd|Re: Sand blasting Edmonton|Tom, this really depends on the paint system you use, some paints are supposed to tolerate a light yellowish rust, others want you to have perfectly grey-white naked steel. In any case it's better to paint immediately after blasting, because you have a risk of spoiling the surface with other things, grease and pullution. Also: don't touch the surface. It's best to start blasting early, as soon as the air is dry and continue till you drop with exhaustion.. that's usually well before nightfall ;-) then paint immediately. After the blasting, painting will seem like pleasure. I remember painting the insides into the night, and what with the fumes, the readio and the bottle of cheap read wine, once they had to literally carry me out of it ;-) Outside it's ok, but if you blast inside, you have will have the pleasure of having to empty the sand first, and there is A LOT of it :-((( Nice people carry the sand out in buckets. Im not nice, so last time I simply cut a big craggy hole in the bottom and pushed the sand out, then welded the hole shut afterwards. This time I am much older and even less nice, so I will either not blast inside at all or pay somebody else to break his back for me. I have got some offers for blasting, they say they would do it for something like 10 (outside) to 15 (inside) US$ per square meter, they say they will do about 100 sqm a day but they have not seen the beast yet... Gerd The YAGO PROJECT at http://www.justmueller.com/boats/| 10487|10487|2006-02-15 16:01:40|drnhurley|Inverter Welder|Hi guys, I've been reading the list for a while now and really enjoy the wealth of experience and ideas found here. Although I am many years away from building an origami boat (I have a little Hurley 20 Bilge Keel that meets all my needs for now). I would like to start building the skills and equipment necessary to build an origami boat someday. To this end I am considering buying a welder. My short- term projects would be something like making a wind vane steering system and maybe a trailer for the boat. An Inverter Tig/Stick welder looks very attractive because of the greater portability and lower amp draw for the same output (would save me running new wiring to the detached garage 100' from the house). Do any of you have any experience with smaller (185 amp) inverter welders or other suggestions of what might be a better investment? I realize that I would likely need something with greater output when it comes time to build a boat, but is seems a small (40lbs) tig/stick welder would be useful for all sorts of smaller projects around the boat and might even be small enough to take along when I do finally set off for and extended period of time? Any comments would be appreciated. Full details of one of the welders I'm considering is below. Thermal Arc 185TSW approx. $2000 US -True square wave AC/DC output with full range capability from 185 to 5 amps -Duty Cycle 40% at 180 amps stick -Duty Cycle 30% at 180 amps Tig -Tig modes slope repeat and spot -Current Sloper, Current Pulser and variable frequency, wave balance control, and Lift or HF assisted starting -Weight 40lbs Cheers, Darren| 10488|10482|2006-02-15 16:32:08|blueiceicle|Re: Sand blasting Edmonton|Hello Martin, and all Ive already recieved quotes from Sahara sandblasting and Dragon Sandblasting to have the boat balasted and primed. They are both mobile however i plan to take he boat to them because they have a better setup to get paint on it with out crap blowing all over and sticking to it. I used to work for a company that shipped stuff almost daily to Sahara for blasting and Dragon seems to get most of the contracts on blasting the vessels at work. So im sure either one is of good standing. But as you stated, there is lots of oilfield work out here so timing is probaly key when it comes to getting it done. Good luck on getting it blasted Martin. Jesse| 10489|10487|2006-02-15 16:49:33|tom|Re: Inverter Welder|Hello Darren I would have to say try one before you buy one it might not be as good as you think for stick welding. 2000 $ seems a little pricey for a 185 amp machine with only a 40% duty cycle. I would recomend putting 220v in youre shed capable of 60 amps and then starting with a lincoln or miller 220v busbox welder,you can buy them new for 4-500 $ new and used around a 100 $. Then latter on if you need it upgrade to bigger welder or even a mig Tom ----- Original Message ----- From: "drnhurley" To: Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 1:01 PM Subject: [origamiboats] Inverter Welder > Hi guys, I've been reading the list for a while now and really enjoy > the wealth of experience and ideas found here. Although I am many > years away from building an origami boat (I have a little Hurley 20 > Bilge Keel that meets all my needs for now). I would like to start > building the skills and equipment necessary to build an origami boat > someday. To this end I am considering buying a welder. My short- > term projects would be something like making a wind vane steering > system and maybe a trailer for the boat. An Inverter Tig/Stick > welder looks very attractive because of the greater portability and > lower amp draw for the same output (would save me running new wiring > to the detached garage 100' from the house). Do any of you have any > experience with smaller (185 amp) inverter welders or other > suggestions of what might be a better investment? I realize that I > would likely need something with greater output when it comes time to > build a boat, but is seems a small (40lbs) tig/stick welder would be > useful for all sorts of smaller projects around the boat and might > even be small enough to take along when I do finally set off for and > extended period of time? Any comments would be appreciated. Full > details of one of the welders I'm considering is below. > > Thermal Arc 185TSW approx. $2000 US > -True square wave AC/DC output with full range capability from 185 to > 5 amps > -Duty Cycle 40% at 180 amps stick > -Duty Cycle 30% at 180 amps Tig > -Tig modes slope repeat and spot > -Current Sloper, Current Pulser and variable frequency, wave balance > control, and Lift or HF assisted starting > -Weight 40lbs > > Cheers, Darren > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > | 10490|10487|2006-02-15 17:22:49|Jim Ragsdale|Re: Inverter Welder|If you have $2000 to spend, get the biggest best welder possible (amps and duty cycle). I would think about flux cored mig if you can get one that will weld 1/4" and 1/2" plate for $2k. That is going to lay down the most bead the fastest and with the flux core, it will weld in the wind outside. I would worry about the wiring after I bought the machine. You can probably run a wire to the shed for $100-200 dollars I would think. My opinion is get good tools. They pay for themselves. Especially the welder. You are going to be using it a lot and you want it to produce good welds. I am using a Lincoln AC buzzbox right now and I still haven't quite got the hang of it. I had some pros over to do some critical welding and they didn't like it. Said it was too cold. They then rolled in some diesel machines and went to town! I just ordered a flux core kit for my Lincoln sp-170t mig welder. I think it might have enough power to weld the topside structure. -----Original Message----- From: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com [mailto:origamiboats@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of tom Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 3:49 PM To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [origamiboats] Inverter Welder Hello Darren I would have to say try one before you buy one it might not be as good as you think for stick welding. 2000 $ seems a little pricey for a 185 amp machine with only a 40% duty cycle. I would recomend putting 220v in youre shed capable of 60 amps and then starting with a lincoln or miller 220v busbox welder,you can buy them new for 4-500 $ new and used around a 100 $. Then latter on if you need it upgrade to bigger welder or even a mig Tom ----- Original Message ----- From: "drnhurley" To: Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 1:01 PM Subject: [origamiboats] Inverter Welder > Hi guys, I've been reading the list for a while now and really enjoy > the wealth of experience and ideas found here. Although I am many > years away from building an origami boat (I have a little Hurley 20 > Bilge Keel that meets all my needs for now). I would like to start > building the skills and equipment necessary to build an origami boat > someday. To this end I am considering buying a welder. My short- > term projects would be something like making a wind vane steering > system and maybe a trailer for the boat. An Inverter Tig/Stick > welder looks very attractive because of the greater portability and > lower amp draw for the same output (would save me running new wiring > to the detached garage 100' from the house). Do any of you have any > experience with smaller (185 amp) inverter welders or other > suggestions of what might be a better investment? I realize that I > would likely need something with greater output when it comes time to > build a boat, but is seems a small (40lbs) tig/stick welder would be > useful for all sorts of smaller projects around the boat and might > even be small enough to take along when I do finally set off for and > extended period of time? Any comments would be appreciated. Full > details of one of the welders I'm considering is below. > > Thermal Arc 185TSW approx. $2000 US > -True square wave AC/DC output with full range capability from 185 to > 5 amps > -Duty Cycle 40% at 180 amps stick > -Duty Cycle 30% at 180 amps Tig > -Tig modes slope repeat and spot > -Current Sloper, Current Pulser and variable frequency, wave balance > control, and Lift or HF assisted starting > -Weight 40lbs > > Cheers, Darren > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links | 10491|10487|2006-02-15 17:24:24|Paul J. Thompson|Re: Inverter Welder|I have a Thermal Arc 140amp unit and have had it since 1999. Expensive, yes but I use it quite regually and have never had a days problem. The light weight makes it very portable which is handy when climbing on and off boats. Paul drnhurley wrote: > Hi guys, I've been reading the list for a while now and really enjoy > the wealth of experience and ideas found here. Although I am many > years away from building an origami boat (I have a little Hurley 20 > Bilge Keel that meets all my needs for now). I would like to start > building the skills and equipment necessary to build an origami boat > someday. To this end I am considering buying a welder. My short- > term projects would be something like making a wind vane steering > system and maybe a trailer for the boat. An Inverter Tig/Stick > welder looks very attractive because of the greater portability and > lower amp draw for the same output (would save me running new wiring > to the detached garage 100' from the house). Do any of you have any > experience with smaller (185 amp) inverter welders or other > suggestions of what might be a better investment? I realize that I > would likely need something with greater output when it comes time to > build a boat, but is seems a small (40lbs) tig/stick welder would be > useful for all sorts of smaller projects around the boat and might > even be small enough to take along when I do finally set off for and > extended period of time? Any comments would be appreciated. Full > details of one of the welders I'm considering is below. > > Thermal Arc 185TSW approx. $2000 US > -True square wave AC/DC output with full range capability from 185 to > 5 amps > -Duty Cycle 40% at 180 amps stick > -Duty Cycle 30% at 180 amps Tig > -Tig modes slope repeat and spot > -Current Sloper, Current Pulser and variable frequency, wave balance > control, and Lift or HF assisted starting > -Weight 40lbs > > Cheers, Darren > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > | 10492|10487|2006-02-15 18:23:01|tom|Re: Inverter Welder|Hello Jim I used to use flux core wire on some of the jobs I did and yes its faster than stick welding but not that much when working with lighter materials. you will find its very expensive and the fumes are deadly. You might want to do some research on the wire you're going to use, as far as I know the sp170 will run the .045 wire ok but the last time I checked the only cored wire available in that small of size is NR-211 and it has been declassified, single pass only, max thickness 3/8" , and non structural welding only. They did come out with a replacement for it, I think NR-202 or NR-212 not sure which but I don't think its available in the small sizes and its not user friendly Tom ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Ragsdale" To: Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 2:22 PM Subject: RE: [origamiboats] Inverter Welder > If you have $2000 to spend, get the biggest best welder possible (amps and > duty cycle). I would think about flux cored mig if you can get one that > will > weld 1/4" and 1/2" plate for $2k. That is going to lay down the most bead > the fastest and with the flux core, it will weld in the wind outside. > > I would worry about the wiring after I bought the machine. You can > probably > run a wire to the shed for $100-200 dollars I would think. > > My opinion is get good tools. They pay for themselves. Especially the > welder. You are going to be using it a lot and you want it to produce good > welds. > > I am using a Lincoln AC buzzbox right now and I still haven't quite got > the > hang of it. I had some pros over to do some critical welding and they > didn't > like it. Said it was too cold. They then rolled in some diesel machines > and > went to town! I just ordered a flux core kit for my Lincoln sp-170t mig > welder. I think it might have enough power to weld the topside structure. > > -----Original Message----- > From: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com [mailto:origamiboats@yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of tom > Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 3:49 PM > To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [origamiboats] Inverter Welder > > Hello Darren > I would have to say try one before you buy one it might not be as good as > you think for stick welding. 2000 $ seems a little pricey for a 185 amp > machine with only a 40% duty cycle. I would recomend putting 220v in youre > shed capable of 60 amps and then starting with a lincoln or miller 220v > busbox welder,you can buy them new for 4-500 $ new and used around a 100 > $. > Then latter on if you need it upgrade to bigger welder or even a mig > Tom > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "drnhurley" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 1:01 PM > Subject: [origamiboats] Inverter Welder > > >> Hi guys, I've been reading the list for a while now and really enjoy >> the wealth of experience and ideas found here. Although I am many >> years away from building an origami boat (I have a little Hurley 20 >> Bilge Keel that meets all my needs for now). I would like to start >> building the skills and equipment necessary to build an origami boat >> someday. To this end I am considering buying a welder. My short- >> term projects would be something like making a wind vane steering >> system and maybe a trailer for the boat. An Inverter Tig/Stick >> welder looks very attractive because of the greater portability and >> lower amp draw for the same output (would save me running new wiring >> to the detached garage 100' from the house). Do any of you have any >> experience with smaller (185 amp) inverter welders or other >> suggestions of what might be a better investment? I realize that I >> would likely need something with greater output when it comes time to >> build a boat, but is seems a small (40lbs) tig/stick welder would be >> useful for all sorts of smaller projects around the boat and might >> even be small enough to take along when I do finally set off for and >> extended period of time? Any comments would be appreciated. Full >> details of one of the welders I'm considering is below. >> >> Thermal Arc 185TSW approx. $2000 US >> -True square wave AC/DC output with full range capability from 185 to >> 5 amps >> -Duty Cycle 40% at 180 amps stick >> -Duty Cycle 30% at 180 amps Tig >> -Tig modes slope repeat and spot >> -Current Sloper, Current Pulser and variable frequency, wave balance >> control, and Lift or HF assisted starting >> -Weight 40lbs >> >> Cheers, Darren >> >> >> >> >> >> >> To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com >> To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: >> origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com >> Yahoo! Groups Links >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > | 10493|10487|2006-02-15 19:46:16|Wesley Cox|Re: Inverter Welder|For my 2 cents, I'll second this sentiment. Flux core wire is expensive, any (good) mig welder is much more expensive than a (good) buzz box of comparable power and the fumes are more noxious. It's also been my experience that a mig welder, even more so with flux core, requires significantly more power to achieve the same penetration as a stick welder. I have a Lincoln mig 170, a Lincoln AC 225 and the DC version of that box. I believe a 3/32" 6011 rod at 90 amps AC produces noticably better penetration than the mig flux core at max. heat. Make it 1/8" rod at 120 amps and there's no comparison. It would require a mig much more hefty than the sp170 to compare to the $250 AC box in penetration and versatility. Flux core wire welding is somewhat slower (in my limited experience with it, I've never been fond of it) than gas shielded wire welding and it's only slightly faster than stick welding in skilled hands and only in some situations. There is more of a learning curve for stick welding, but it's well worth it. Back to the original post, Darren, what make is the $2k TIG? Is it the light weight Miller? If you're serious about learning skills, a TIG is an excellent investment. In my shop, I always choose the TIG unless there's a compelling reason not to use it (difficult to reach inside corners, penetration needs, etc.). Second choice is stick for thicker materials, difficult to reach, outside welding. Last resort is MIG. I paid $1400 for the Lincoln square wave about 5 years ago, but it doesn't have all the features you list and it weighs 75 lbs. (guessing). I've been very happy with it for steel and aluminum. Keep in mind, with practice and the right rod, a stick welder will do thin stuff, too. 16 ga. steel is no problem w/ 5/64" 6013. Also, as you probably already know, $100-200 won't touch a 100' 60 amp circuit. The wire alone is that much, plus panel, ground if needed, breakers, conduit (or upgrade the wire cost for U, earth contact wire), labor and permit. I'm doing the same thing, 180' from the main panel in the house to the out-building at my new place this spring. tom wrote: >Hello Jim > I used to use flux core wire on some of the jobs I did and yes its faster >than stick welding but not that much when working with lighter materials. >you will find its very expensive and the fumes are deadly. You might want to >do some research on the wire you're going to use, as far as I know the sp170 >will run the .045 wire ok but the last time I checked the only cored wire >available in that small of size is NR-211 and it has been declassified, >single pass only, max thickness 3/8" , and non structural welding only. > They did come out with a replacement for it, I think NR-202 or NR-212 not >sure which but I don't think its available in the small sizes and its not >user friendly >Tom >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Jim Ragsdale" >To: >Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 2:22 PM >Subject: RE: [origamiboats] Inverter Welder > > > > >>If you have $2000 to spend, get the biggest best welder possible (amps and >>duty cycle). I would think about flux cored mig if you can get one that >>will >>weld 1/4" and 1/2" plate for $2k. That is going to lay down the most bead >>the fastest and with the flux core, it will weld in the wind outside. >> >>I would worry about the wiring after I bought the machine. You can >>probably >>run a wire to the shed for $100-200 dollars I would think. >> >>My opinion is get good tools. They pay for themselves. Especially the >>welder. You are going to be using it a lot and you want it to produce good >>welds. >> >>I am using a Lincoln AC buzzbox right now and I still haven't quite got >>the >>hang of it. I had some pros over to do some critical welding and they >>didn't >>like it. Said it was too cold. They then rolled in some diesel machines >>and >>went to town! I just ordered a flux core kit for my Lincoln sp-170t mig >>welder. I think it might have enough power to weld the topside structure. >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com [mailto:origamiboats@yahoogroups.com] >>On >>Behalf Of tom >>Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 3:49 PM >>To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com >>Subject: Re: [origamiboats] Inverter Welder >> >>Hello Darren >> I would have to say try one before you buy one it might not be as good as >>you think for stick welding. 2000 $ seems a little pricey for a 185 amp >>machine with only a 40% duty cycle. I would recomend putting 220v in youre >>shed capable of 60 amps and then starting with a lincoln or miller 220v >>busbox welder,you can buy them new for 4-500 $ new and used around a 100 >>$. >>Then latter on if you need it upgrade to bigger welder or even a mig >>Tom >>----- Original Message ----- >>From: "drnhurley" >>To: >>Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 1:01 PM >>Subject: [origamiboats] Inverter Welder >> >> >> >> >>>Hi guys, I've been reading the list for a while now and really enjoy >>>the wealth of experience and ideas found here. Although I am many >>>years away from building an origami boat (I have a little Hurley 20 >>>Bilge Keel that meets all my needs for now). I would like to start >>>building the skills and equipment necessary to build an origami boat >>>someday. To this end I am considering buying a welder. My short- >>>term projects would be something like making a wind vane steering >>>system and maybe a trailer for the boat. An Inverter Tig/Stick >>>welder looks very attractive because of the greater portability and >>>lower amp draw for the same output (would save me running new wiring >>>to the detached garage 100' from the house). Do any of you have any >>>experience with smaller (185 amp) inverter welders or other >>>suggestions of what might be a better investment? I realize that I >>>would likely need something with greater output when it comes time to >>>build a boat, but is seems a small (40lbs) tig/stick welder would be >>>useful for all sorts of smaller projects around the boat and might >>>even be small enough to take along when I do finally set off for and >>>extended period of time? Any comments would be appreciated. Full >>>details of one of the welders I'm considering is below. >>> >>>Thermal Arc 185TSW approx. $2000 US >>>-True square wave AC/DC output with full range capability from 185 to >>>5 amps >>>-Duty Cycle 40% at 180 amps stick >>>-Duty Cycle 30% at 180 amps Tig >>>-Tig modes slope repeat and spot >>>-Current Sloper, Current Pulser and variable frequency, wave balance >>>control, and Lift or HF assisted starting >>>-Weight 40lbs >>> >>>Cheers, Darren >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com >>>To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: >>>origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com >>>Yahoo! Groups Links >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >>To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com >>To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: >>origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com >>Yahoo! Groups Links >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com >>To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: >>origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com >>Yahoo! Groups Links >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > >To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com >To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > | 10494|10482|2006-02-15 20:10:39|conallstap|Re: Sand blasting Edmonton|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "blueiceicle" wrote: > > Hello Martin, and all > > Ive already recieved quotes from Sahara sandblasting and Dragon > Sandblasting to have the boat balasted and primed. They are both > mobile however i plan to take he boat to them because they have a > better setup to get paint on it with out crap blowing all over and > sticking to it. > I used to work for a company that shipped stuff almost daily to > Sahara for blasting and Dragon seems to get most of the contracts on > blasting the vessels at work. So im sure either one is of good > standing. > But as you stated, there is lots of oilfield work out here so timing > is probaly key when it comes to getting it done. > > Good luck on getting it blasted Martin. > > Jesse > Nasty job. I just rented a 500 cfm compressor with 600 lbs blasting pot. That combo takes the material off pretty quick using the black blasting media. I think the nozzle size was 7/16. One has to paint within 4 hours of blasting, and don't wipe the steel down with rags or thinner. The threads from the rags will snag on the freshly profiled steel and cause a wick for water to get under your coating. Best to use dry air and a brush to clean the steel, then paint. I had the unit for a weekend to blast two 8x20 sheets both sides. New steel with tight mill scale. I used about 2200 lbs of black media. New steel that has rusted is much easier to blast than the fresh stuff. Rust eats off the mill scale. $350.00 will buy a decent fresh air respirator so you don't have to use the junk ones that come with rental units. The fresh air units run off of your shop air, and have a filtering device you wear on your belt. The full face mask uses tear offs so you always can have a clean view. Once you start spraying epoxy paints wearing one of these, you'll love it. I hate to say this, but the fresh air set up makes the nasty blasting job just hard work. Breathing in blasting material is slightly more nasty that breathing in oil filled air from the compressor. Conall| 10495|10482|2006-02-15 23:22:22|tom|Re: Sand blasting Edmonton|Hello Gerd I agree I think it would be better to paint right away. The outside of the boat I dont think will be that bad sandblasting but the inside I allready have visions of that crap flying everywhere cant see from the dust ext. oh well I quess I will have to deal with that when the time comes. I like youre idea of a little wine to make it tolerable, I might have to try it . I definently think the inside should be blasted allso , i here all the time about them rusting from the inside out so I would emagine its just as important to do both inside and outside. I am still debateing about useing cold galvinising so I can blast smaler sections and paint with galvanising and not worry about next coat timing like with epoxy. Tom ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gerd" To: Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 11:33 AM Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Sand blasting Edmonton > Tom, this really depends on the paint system you use, some paints > are supposed to tolerate a light yellowish rust, others want you to > have perfectly grey-white naked steel. In any case it's better to > paint immediately after blasting, because you have a risk of > spoiling the surface with other things, grease and pullution. Also: > don't touch the surface. > > It's best to start blasting early, as soon as the air is dry and > continue till you drop with exhaustion.. that's usually well before > nightfall ;-) then paint immediately. After the blasting, painting > will seem like pleasure. I remember painting the insides into the > night, and what with the fumes, the readio and the bottle of cheap > read wine, once they had to literally carry me out of it ;-) > > Outside it's ok, but if you blast inside, you have will have the > pleasure of having to empty the sand first, and there is A LOT of > it :-((( > > Nice people carry the sand out in buckets. Im not nice, so last time > I simply cut a big craggy hole in the bottom and pushed the sand > out, then welded the hole shut afterwards. This time I am much > older and even less nice, so I will either not blast inside at all > or pay somebody else to break his back for me. > > I have got some offers for blasting, they say they would do it for > something like 10 (outside) to 15 (inside) US$ per square meter, > they say they will do about 100 sqm a day but they have not seen the > beast yet... > > Gerd > The YAGO PROJECT at http://www.justmueller.com/boats/ > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > | 10496|10496|2006-02-16 01:42:49|jericoera|Clearing up the welding confusion|I just received some answers I had regarding polarity in welding. I am confident in the source as it is a Lincoln educational rep and he gave me a website here: http://www.allaboutcircuits.com/vol_1/chpt_1/7.html which further supports his statement . He stated that commonly and falsely people believe current flows positive to negative when in fact it is the reverse. That is why if youask ten welders about polarity you will get several different answers as to which is which. So once and for all DCEP is DC electrode positive welding and is also known as reverse polarity whereby the electrons flow from the piece that is being welded into the electrode (welding rod) Generally speaking more heat is created in the electrode resulting in less penetration. Good way to go for thinner materials. DCEN , DC electrode negative has the electrons flowing from the rod into the workpiece causing more heat in the workpiece and better penetration. Experienced welders that I have talked to say that although the material gets hotter with DCEN, that it actually provides less distortion as it is heated quicker. Another guy told me to forget DCEN and just leave the welder set to DCEP (reverse polarity) and forget about it. One thing I can say is that DC welding at least on my buzz box has fewer arc outages and much smoother arc starts with little spatter. You also usually can run lower amps at DC than you would for AC. (given the same rod and material thickness) DC will not work with all rods and it will not work very well at all with material that has become magnetized. Arctec 223 rod which I believe is similar to a 7024 or 7018 welds incredible with DC though the rod is a bit more expensive. It is used extensively for industrial applications fixing heavy machinery in Powlel River here. Carl McIntosh| 10497|10487|2006-02-16 01:43:46|edward_stoneuk|Re: Inverter Welder|Darren, I have a small inverter welder. It is great, especially for stainless stick welding. Check the open circuit voltage is large enough for the rods you want to use. Mine is too small for using 6010 rods, a fact that took me some time and grief to find out. I now use 6013 rods, which are good. The welder you are interested in seems expensive enough so it may be OK but it would be worthwhile to check. Regards, Ted| 10498|10487|2006-02-16 02:22:32|Darren Bos|Re: Inverter Welder|Thanks Tom, Jim, Wesley and Paul Wesley, the brand of the welder is "Thermal Arc" distributed by Thermadyne. I was a bit wary as they were not one of the "Big Three" in welding brands. But a bit of research on the net shows they are made by a Japanese company with a good reputation and everyone who owns one seems to have glowing comments about them (within the limitations of their ratings). It looks to draw about 20 amps when welding at full bore, and the manufacturer recommends a 40A circuit for it. Tom, I think your advise to try one is good and I intend to look for a local supplier. Darren At 04:48 PM 15/02/2006, you wrote: >For my 2 cents, I'll second this sentiment. Flux core wire is >expensive, any (good) mig welder is much more expensive than a (good) >buzz box of comparable power and the fumes are more noxious. It's also >been my experience that a mig welder, even more so with flux core, >requires significantly more power to achieve the same penetration as a >stick welder. I have a Lincoln mig 170, a Lincoln AC 225 and the DC >version of that box. I believe a 3/32" 6011 rod at 90 amps AC produces >noticably better penetration than the mig flux core at max. heat. Make >it 1/8" rod at 120 amps and there's no comparison. It would require a >mig much more hefty than the sp170 to compare to the $250 AC box in >penetration and versatility. Flux core wire welding is somewhat slower >(in my limited experience with it, I've never been fond of it) than gas >shielded wire welding and it's only slightly faster than stick welding >in skilled hands and only in some situations. > >There is more of a learning curve for stick welding, but it's well worth >it. > >Back to the original post, Darren, what make is the $2k TIG? Is it the >light weight Miller? If you're serious about learning skills, a TIG is >an excellent investment. In my shop, I always choose the TIG unless >there's a compelling reason not to use it (difficult to reach inside >corners, penetration needs, etc.). Second choice is stick for thicker >materials, difficult to reach, outside welding. Last resort is MIG. I >paid $1400 for the Lincoln square wave about 5 years ago, but it doesn't >have all the features you list and it weighs 75 lbs. (guessing). I've >been very happy with it for steel and aluminum. Keep in mind, with >practice and the right rod, a stick welder will do thin stuff, too. 16 >ga. steel is no problem w/ 5/64" 6013. > >Also, as you probably already know, $100-200 won't touch a 100' 60 amp >circuit. The wire alone is that much, plus panel, ground if needed, >breakers, conduit (or upgrade the wire cost for U, earth contact wire), >labor and permit. I'm doing the same thing, 180' from the main panel in >the house to the out-building at my new place this spring. > > > > > >To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com >To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: >origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > >SPONSORED LINKS >British >columbia canada >Vancouver >island >Yacht > > > >---------- >YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > * Visit your group > "origamiboats" on the web. > * > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > * > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > * > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the > Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > >---------- | 10499|10487|2006-02-16 06:30:52|Denis Buggy|Re: Inverter Welder|darren dont forget to buy a 32 amp waterproof blue plastic waterproof plug and wire it direct to the fuse board and a suitable circut breaker/ fuse/pcb and by pass your house wiring as it will take long bouts of welding and you will not see the frying wires in the wall , also you will trip the pcb each time you strike an arc with the rod if it works properly and you need to use a different heavier pcb to survive the arc striking .. you can pick up a good miller or used lincon with a greater duty cycle for less than 2000 dollars denis origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday,From: drnhurley February 15, 2006 9:0y cycle 1 PM Subject: [origamiboats] Inverter Welder Hi guys, I've been reading the list for a while now and really enjoy the wealth of experience and ideas found here. Although I am many years away from building an origami boat (I have a little Hurley 20 Bilge Keel that meets all my needs for now). I would like to start building the skills and equipment necessary to build an origami boat someday. To this end I am considering buying a welder. My short- term projects would be something like making a wind vane steering system and maybe a trailer for the boat. An Inverter Tig/Stick welder looks very attractive because of the greater portability and lower amp draw for the same output (would save me running new wiring to the detached garage 100' from the house). Do any of you have any experience with smaller (185 amp) inverter welders or other suggestions of what might be a better investment? I realize that I would likely need something with greater output when it comes time to build a boat, but is seems a small (40lbs) tig/stick welder would be useful for all sorts of smaller projects around the boat and might even be small enough to take along when I do finally set off for and extended period of time? Any comments would be appreciated. Full details of one of the welders I'm considering is below. Thermal Arc 185TSW approx. $2000 US -True square wave AC/DC output with full range capability from 185 to 5 amps -Duty Cycle 40% at 180 amps stick -Duty Cycle 30% at 180 amps Tig -Tig modes slope repeat and spot -Current Sloper, Current Pulser and variable frequency, wave balance control, and Lift or HF assisted starting -Weight 40lbs Cheers, Darren To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com SPONSORED LINKS British columbia canada Vancouver island Yacht ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS a.. Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web. b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]| 10500|10482|2006-02-16 08:32:34|Carl Volkwein|Re: Sand blasting Edmonton|Has anybody tried this? Make paterns for all the shell parts of the steel, then cut the steel to the paterns, then have the steel hot dip galvenized, then put it all back together, then cold gallv. the areas you ruened when welding. I know it's a lot of trouble, but it seems rust would have a hard time starting after this. Carl from W.Va. tom wrote: Hello Gerd I agree I think it would be better to paint right away. The outside of the boat I dont think will be that bad sandblasting but the inside I allready have visions of that crap flying everywhere cant see from the dust ext. oh well I quess I will have to deal with that when the time comes. I like youre idea of a little wine to make it tolerable, I might have to try it . I definently think the inside should be blasted allso , i here all the time about them rusting from the inside out so I would emagine its just as important to do both inside and outside. I am still debateing about useing cold galvinising so I can blast smaler sections and paint with galvanising and not worry about next coat timing like with epoxy. Tom ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gerd" To: Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 11:33 AM Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Sand blasting Edmonton > Tom, this really depends on the paint system you use, some paints > are supposed to tolerate a light yellowish rust, others want you to > have perfectly grey-white naked steel. In any case it's better to > paint immediately after blasting, because you have a risk of > spoiling the surface with other things, grease and pullution. Also: > don't touch the surface. > > It's best to start blasting early, as soon as the air is dry and > continue till you drop with exhaustion.. that's usually well before > nightfall ;-) then paint immediately. After the blasting, painting > will seem like pleasure. I remember painting the insides into the > night, and what with the fumes, the readio and the bottle of cheap > read wine, once they had to literally carry me out of it ;-) > > Outside it's ok, but if you blast inside, you have will have the > pleasure of having to empty the sand first, and there is A LOT of > it :-((( > > Nice people carry the sand out in buckets. Im not nice, so last time > I simply cut a big craggy hole in the bottom and pushed the sand > out, then welded the hole shut afterwards. This time I am much > older and even less nice, so I will either not blast inside at all > or pay somebody else to break his back for me. > > I have got some offers for blasting, they say they would do it for > something like 10 (outside) to 15 (inside) US$ per square meter, > they say they will do about 100 sqm a day but they have not seen the > beast yet... > > Gerd > The YAGO PROJECT at http://www.justmueller.com/boats/ > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com SPONSORED LINKS British columbia canada Vancouver island Yacht --------------------------------- YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. --------------------------------- --------------------------------- Yahoo! Mail Use Photomail to share photos without annoying attachments. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 10501|10487|2006-02-16 08:46:46|Jim Ragsdale|Re: Inverter Welder|Here is a data sheet on the innershield wires. It doesn't look to bad to me for what I am doing. You can get the 212 in .045, but the best wire to use would probably be the 203, but I would need bigger machine which is not worth doing. I already have the welder, and the flux core kit w/ 10lb of wire is only $60. I will give it a try and see what it does. Half the fun of building the boat is playing with the different toys. -----Original Message----- From: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com [mailto:origamiboats@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of tom Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 5:23 PM To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [origamiboats] Inverter Welder Hello Jim I used to use flux core wire on some of the jobs I did and yes its faster than stick welding but not that much when working with lighter materials. you will find its very expensive and the fumes are deadly. You might want to do some research on the wire you're going to use, as far as I know the sp170 will run the .045 wire ok but the last time I checked the only cored wire available in that small of size is NR-211 and it has been declassified, single pass only, max thickness 3/8" , and non structural welding only. They did come out with a replacement for it, I think NR-202 or NR-212 not sure which but I don't think its available in the small sizes and its not user friendly Tom ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Ragsdale" To: Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 2:22 PM Subject: RE: [origamiboats] Inverter Welder > If you have $2000 to spend, get the biggest best welder possible (amps and > duty cycle). I would think about flux cored mig if you can get one that > will > weld 1/4" and 1/2" plate for $2k. That is going to lay down the most bead > the fastest and with the flux core, it will weld in the wind outside. > > I would worry about the wiring after I bought the machine. You can > probably > run a wire to the shed for $100-200 dollars I would think. > > My opinion is get good tools. They pay for themselves. Especially the > welder. You are going to be using it a lot and you want it to produce good > welds. > > I am using a Lincoln AC buzzbox right now and I still haven't quite got > the > hang of it. I had some pros over to do some critical welding and they > didn't > like it. Said it was too cold. They then rolled in some diesel machines > and > went to town! I just ordered a flux core kit for my Lincoln sp-170t mig > welder. I think it might have enough power to weld the topside structure. > > -----Original Message----- > From: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com [mailto:origamiboats@yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of tom > Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 3:49 PM > To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [origamiboats] Inverter Welder > > Hello Darren > I would have to say try one before you buy one it might not be as good as > you think for stick welding. 2000 $ seems a little pricey for a 185 amp > machine with only a 40% duty cycle. I would recomend putting 220v in youre > shed capable of 60 amps and then starting with a lincoln or miller 220v > busbox welder,you can buy them new for 4-500 $ new and used around a 100 > $. > Then latter on if you need it upgrade to bigger welder or even a mig > Tom > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "drnhurley" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 1:01 PM > Subject: [origamiboats] Inverter Welder > > >> Hi guys, I've been reading the list for a while now and really enjoy >> the wealth of experience and ideas found here. Although I am many >> years away from building an origami boat (I have a little Hurley 20 >> Bilge Keel that meets all my needs for now). I would like to start >> building the skills and equipment necessary to build an origami boat >> someday. To this end I am considering buying a welder. My short- >> term projects would be something like making a wind vane steering >> system and maybe a trailer for the boat. An Inverter Tig/Stick >> welder looks very attractive because of the greater portability and >> lower amp draw for the same output (would save me running new wiring >> to the detached garage 100' from the house). Do any of you have any >> experience with smaller (185 amp) inverter welders or other >> suggestions of what might be a better investment? I realize that I >> would likely need something with greater output when it comes time to >> build a boat, but is seems a small (40lbs) tig/stick welder would be >> useful for all sorts of smaller projects around the boat and might >> even be small enough to take along when I do finally set off for and >> extended period of time? Any comments would be appreciated. Full >> details of one of the welders I'm considering is below. >> >> Thermal Arc 185TSW approx. $2000 US >> -True square wave AC/DC output with full range capability from 185 to >> 5 amps >> -Duty Cycle 40% at 180 amps stick >> -Duty Cycle 30% at 180 amps Tig >> -Tig modes slope repeat and spot >> -Current Sloper, Current Pulser and variable frequency, wave balance >> control, and Lift or HF assisted starting >> -Weight 40lbs >> >> Cheers, Darren >> >> >> >> >> >> >> To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com >> To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: >> origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com >> Yahoo! Groups Links >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links | 10502|10502|2006-02-16 09:34:02|jericoera|Re: Inverter Welder fumes?|Are the fumes any worse for flux core than they are for a regular stick welder? Carl M --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Jim Ragsdale" wrote: > > Here is a data sheet on the innershield wires. > > It doesn't look to bad to me for what I am doing. You can get the 212 in > .045, but the best wire to use would probably be the 203, but I would need > bigger machine which is not worth doing. > > I already have the welder, and the flux core kit w/ 10lb of wire is only > $60. I will give it a try and see what it does. Half the fun of building the > boat is playing with the different toys. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com [mailto:origamiboats@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of tom > Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 5:23 PM > To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [origamiboats] Inverter Welder > > Hello Jim > I used to use flux core wire on some of the jobs I did and yes its faster > than stick welding but not that much when working with lighter materials. > you will find its very expensive and the fumes are deadly. You might want to > > do some research on the wire you're going to use, as far as I know the sp170 > > will run the .045 wire ok but the last time I checked the only cored wire > available in that small of size is NR-211 and it has been declassified, > single pass only, max thickness 3/8" , and non structural welding only. > They did come out with a replacement for it, I think NR-202 or NR- 212 not > sure which but I don't think its available in the small sizes and its not > user friendly > Tom > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jim Ragsdale" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 2:22 PM > Subject: RE: [origamiboats] Inverter Welder > > > > If you have $2000 to spend, get the biggest best welder possible (amps and > > duty cycle). I would think about flux cored mig if you can get one that > > will > > weld 1/4" and 1/2" plate for $2k. That is going to lay down the most bead > > the fastest and with the flux core, it will weld in the wind outside. > > > > I would worry about the wiring after I bought the machine. You can > > probably > > run a wire to the shed for $100-200 dollars I would think. > > > > My opinion is get good tools. They pay for themselves. Especially the > > welder. You are going to be using it a lot and you want it to produce good > > welds. > > > > I am using a Lincoln AC buzzbox right now and I still haven't quite got > > the > > hang of it. I had some pros over to do some critical welding and they > > didn't > > like it. Said it was too cold. They then rolled in some diesel machines > > and > > went to town! I just ordered a flux core kit for my Lincoln sp- 170t mig > > welder. I think it might have enough power to weld the topside structure. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com [mailto:origamiboats@yahoogroups.com] > > On > > Behalf Of tom > > Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 3:49 PM > > To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [origamiboats] Inverter Welder > > > > Hello Darren > > I would have to say try one before you buy one it might not be as good as > > you think for stick welding. 2000 $ seems a little pricey for a 185 amp > > machine with only a 40% duty cycle. I would recomend putting 220v in youre > > shed capable of 60 amps and then starting with a lincoln or miller 220v > > busbox welder,you can buy them new for 4-500 $ new and used around a 100 > > $. > > Then latter on if you need it upgrade to bigger welder or even a mig > > Tom > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "drnhurley" > > To: > > Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 1:01 PM > > Subject: [origamiboats] Inverter Welder > > > > > >> Hi guys, I've been reading the list for a while now and really enjoy > >> the wealth of experience and ideas found here. Although I am many > >> years away from building an origami boat (I have a little Hurley 20 > >> Bilge Keel that meets all my needs for now). I would like to start > >> building the skills and equipment necessary to build an origami boat > >> someday. To this end I am considering buying a welder. My short- > >> term projects would be something like making a wind vane steering > >> system and maybe a trailer for the boat. An Inverter Tig/Stick > >> welder looks very attractive because of the greater portability and > >> lower amp draw for the same output (would save me running new wiring > >> to the detached garage 100' from the house). Do any of you have any > >> experience with smaller (185 amp) inverter welders or other > >> suggestions of what might be a better investment? I realize that I > >> would likely need something with greater output when it comes time to > >> build a boat, but is seems a small (40lbs) tig/stick welder would be > >> useful for all sorts of smaller projects around the boat and might > >> even be small enough to take along when I do finally set off for and > >> extended period of time? Any comments would be appreciated. Full > >> details of one of the welders I'm considering is below. > >> > >> Thermal Arc 185TSW approx. $2000 US > >> -True square wave AC/DC output with full range capability from 185 to > >> 5 amps > >> -Duty Cycle 40% at 180 amps stick > >> -Duty Cycle 30% at 180 amps Tig > >> -Tig modes slope repeat and spot > >> -Current Sloper, Current Pulser and variable frequency, wave balance > >> control, and Lift or HF assisted starting > >> -Weight 40lbs > >> > >> Cheers, Darren > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > >> To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > >> origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > >> Yahoo! Groups Links > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Yahoo! Groups Links > | 10503|10503|2006-02-16 10:22:19|prairiemaidca|Welding and magnets|Hi All: I was doing some welding in Prairie Maids hull and couldn't figure out what was going wrong. It turned out that by having the large magnet that was holding the piece so close to the weld site it was effecting the welding process big time. Once the magnet was moved all was back to normal. I had no idea that a magnetic field could have such a powerfull effect on the arc and it's ability to form a puddle. Definitly something to consider when using those very helpful magnets to hold things in place. Martin..| 10504|10502|2006-02-16 10:53:22|tom|Re: Inverter Welder fumes?|Hi Carl Yes most defenently, I weld all day outside with stick using 6011 or 7018 on mild steel and no problem. When I was using flux core wire after about 30 minutes I would start getting noshes, its a lot worse than welding galvanizing so make sure you have a good welding mask Tom ----- Original Message ----- From: "jericoera" To: Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2006 6:31 AM Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Inverter Welder fumes? > Are the fumes any worse for flux core than they are for a regular > stick welder? > > Carl M > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Jim Ragsdale" > wrote: >> >> Here is a data sheet on the innershield wires. >> > df> >> It doesn't look to bad to me for what I am doing. You can get the > 212 in >> .045, but the best wire to use would probably be the 203, but I > would need >> bigger machine which is not worth doing. >> >> I already have the welder, and the flux core kit w/ 10lb of wire > is only >> $60. I will give it a try and see what it does. Half the fun of > building the >> boat is playing with the different toys. >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:origamiboats@yahoogroups.com] On >> Behalf Of tom >> Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 5:23 PM >> To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com >> Subject: Re: [origamiboats] Inverter Welder >> >> Hello Jim >> I used to use flux core wire on some of the jobs I did and yes > its faster >> than stick welding but not that much when working with lighter > materials. >> you will find its very expensive and the fumes are deadly. You > might want to >> >> do some research on the wire you're going to use, as far as I know > the sp170 >> >> will run the .045 wire ok but the last time I checked the only > cored wire >> available in that small of size is NR-211 and it has been > declassified, >> single pass only, max thickness 3/8" , and non structural welding > only. >> They did come out with a replacement for it, I think NR-202 or NR- > 212 not >> sure which but I don't think its available in the small sizes and > its not >> user friendly >> Tom >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Jim Ragsdale" >> To: >> Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 2:22 PM >> Subject: RE: [origamiboats] Inverter Welder >> >> >> > If you have $2000 to spend, get the biggest best welder possible > (amps and >> > duty cycle). I would think about flux cored mig if you can get > one that >> > will >> > weld 1/4" and 1/2" plate for $2k. That is going to lay down the > most bead >> > the fastest and with the flux core, it will weld in the wind > outside. >> > >> > I would worry about the wiring after I bought the machine. You > can >> > probably >> > run a wire to the shed for $100-200 dollars I would think. >> > >> > My opinion is get good tools. They pay for themselves. > Especially the >> > welder. You are going to be using it a lot and you want it to > produce good >> > welds. >> > >> > I am using a Lincoln AC buzzbox right now and I still haven't > quite got >> > the >> > hang of it. I had some pros over to do some critical welding and > they >> > didn't >> > like it. Said it was too cold. They then rolled in some diesel > machines >> > and >> > went to town! I just ordered a flux core kit for my Lincoln sp- > 170t mig >> > welder. I think it might have enough power to weld the topside > structure. >> > >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:origamiboats@yahoogroups.com] >> > On >> > Behalf Of tom >> > Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 3:49 PM >> > To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com >> > Subject: Re: [origamiboats] Inverter Welder >> > >> > Hello Darren >> > I would have to say try one before you buy one it might not be > as good as >> > you think for stick welding. 2000 $ seems a little pricey for a > 185 amp >> > machine with only a 40% duty cycle. I would recomend putting > 220v in youre >> > shed capable of 60 amps and then starting with a lincoln or > miller 220v >> > busbox welder,you can buy them new for 4-500 $ new and used > around a 100 >> > $. >> > Then latter on if you need it upgrade to bigger welder or even > a mig >> > Tom >> > ----- Original Message ----- >> > From: "drnhurley" >> > To: >> > Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 1:01 PM >> > Subject: [origamiboats] Inverter Welder >> > >> > >> >> Hi guys, I've been reading the list for a while now and really > enjoy >> >> the wealth of experience and ideas found here. Although I am > many >> >> years away from building an origami boat (I have a little > Hurley 20 >> >> Bilge Keel that meets all my needs for now). I would like to > start >> >> building the skills and equipment necessary to build an origami > boat >> >> someday. To this end I am considering buying a welder. My > short- >> >> term projects would be something like making a wind vane > steering >> >> system and maybe a trailer for the boat. An Inverter Tig/Stick >> >> welder looks very attractive because of the greater portability > and >> >> lower amp draw for the same output (would save me running new > wiring >> >> to the detached garage 100' from the house). Do any of you > have any >> >> experience with smaller (185 amp) inverter welders or other >> >> suggestions of what might be a better investment? I realize > that I >> >> would likely need something with greater output when it comes > time to >> >> build a boat, but is seems a small (40lbs) tig/stick welder > would be >> >> useful for all sorts of smaller projects around the boat and > might >> >> even be small enough to take along when I do finally set off > for and >> >> extended period of time? Any comments would be appreciated. > Full >> >> details of one of the welders I'm considering is below. >> >> >> >> Thermal Arc 185TSW approx. $2000 US >> >> -True square wave AC/DC output with full range capability from > 185 to >> >> 5 amps >> >> -Duty Cycle 40% at 180 amps stick >> >> -Duty Cycle 30% at 180 amps Tig >> >> -Tig modes slope repeat and spot >> >> -Current Sloper, Current Pulser and variable frequency, wave > balance >> >> control, and Lift or HF assisted starting >> >> -Weight 40lbs >> >> >> >> Cheers, Darren >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com >> >> To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: >> >> origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com >> >> Yahoo! Groups Links >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > >> > >> > >> > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com >> > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: >> > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com >> > Yahoo! Groups Links >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com >> > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: >> > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com >> > Yahoo! Groups Links >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> >> >> >> To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com >> To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: >> origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com >> Yahoo! Groups Links >> > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > | 10505|10496|2006-02-16 11:25:09|Wesley Cox|Re: Clearing up the welding confusion|One point not mentioned that is relevant for welding steel that has been outside (origami boats) is AC welding works (much) better on dirty and rusty metal. AC current requires an AC rod to work well, 6011 is my first choice. AC requires more finesse to start an arc. It tends to stick more so than DC positive or negative. jericoera wrote: >I just received some answers I had regarding polarity in welding. I >am confident in the source as it is a Lincoln educational rep and he >gave me a website here: >http://www.allaboutcircuits.com/vol_1/chpt_1/7.html >which further supports his statement . > >He stated that commonly and falsely people believe current flows >positive to negative when in fact it is the reverse. > >That is why if youask ten welders about polarity you will get >several different answers as to which is which. > >So once and for all DCEP is DC electrode positive welding and is >also known as reverse polarity whereby the electrons flow from the >piece that is being welded into the electrode (welding rod) > >Generally speaking more heat is created in the electrode resulting >in less penetration. Good way to go for thinner materials. > >DCEN , DC electrode negative has the electrons flowing from the rod >into the workpiece causing more heat in the workpiece and better >penetration. > >Experienced welders that I have talked to say that although the >material gets hotter with DCEN, that it actually provides less >distortion as it is heated quicker. Another guy told me to forget >DCEN and just leave the welder set to DCEP (reverse polarity) and >forget about it. > >One thing I can say is that DC welding at least on my buzz box has >fewer arc outages and much smoother arc starts with little spatter. > >You also usually can run lower amps at DC than you would for AC. >(given the same rod and material thickness) > >DC will not work with all rods and it will not work very well at all >with material that has become magnetized. > >Arctec 223 rod which I believe is similar to a 7024 or 7018 welds >incredible with DC though the rod is a bit more expensive. It is >used extensively for industrial applications fixing heavy machinery >in Powlel River here. > >Carl McIntosh > > > > > >To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com >To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > | 10506|10502|2006-02-16 12:13:51|Wesley Cox|Re: Inverter Welder fumes?|I agree. One should ideally never breath *any* fumes. They all contain trace amounts of molybdenum, copper, aluminum, zinc, all very toxic. But on a job (contract not employee), inevitably in the name of getting the job done, there comes a time when some small amount of fumes are ingested, at least for me and anyone I've ever associated with. I've had very bad experiences with flux core wire. 6013 is also worse for me than 6011. Rods ending in 3 use a potassium based flux, I believe, and rods ending in 1 use a cellulose base. It could be, though, that the "more" harsh techniques are a good canary in the coal mine, their effects reminding us we shouldn't be breathing ANY of it. tom wrote: >Hi Carl > Yes most defenently, I weld all day outside with stick using 6011 or 7018 >on mild steel and no problem. When I was using flux core wire after about 30 >minutes I would start getting noshes, its a lot worse than welding >galvanizing so make sure you have a good welding mask > Tom >----- Original Message ----- >From: "jericoera" >To: >Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2006 6:31 AM >Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Inverter Welder fumes? > > > > >>Are the fumes any worse for flux core than they are for a regular >>stick welder? >> >>Carl M >> >> >>--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Jim Ragsdale" >>wrote: >> >> >>>Here is a data sheet on the innershield wires. >>> >>> >>> >>>df> >> >> >>>It doesn't look to bad to me for what I am doing. You can get the >>> >>> >>212 in >> >> >>>.045, but the best wire to use would probably be the 203, but I >>> >>> >>would need >> >> >>>bigger machine which is not worth doing. >>> >>>I already have the welder, and the flux core kit w/ 10lb of wire >>> >>> >>is only >> >> >>>$60. I will give it a try and see what it does. Half the fun of >>> >>> >>building the >> >> >>>boat is playing with the different toys. >>> >>> >>>-----Original Message----- >>>From: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com >>> >>> >>[mailto:origamiboats@yahoogroups.com] On >> >> >>>Behalf Of tom >>>Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 5:23 PM >>>To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com >>>Subject: Re: [origamiboats] Inverter Welder >>> >>>Hello Jim >>> I used to use flux core wire on some of the jobs I did and yes >>> >>> >>its faster >> >> >>>than stick welding but not that much when working with lighter >>> >>> >>materials. >> >> >>>you will find its very expensive and the fumes are deadly. You >>> >>> >>might want to >> >> >>>do some research on the wire you're going to use, as far as I know >>> >>> >>the sp170 >> >> >>>will run the .045 wire ok but the last time I checked the only >>> >>> >>cored wire >> >> >>>available in that small of size is NR-211 and it has been >>> >>> >>declassified, >> >> >>>single pass only, max thickness 3/8" , and non structural welding >>> >>> >>only. >> >> >>> They did come out with a replacement for it, I think NR-202 or NR- >>> >>> >>212 not >> >> >>>sure which but I don't think its available in the small sizes and >>> >>> >>its not >> >> >>>user friendly >>>Tom >>>----- Original Message ----- >>>From: "Jim Ragsdale" >>>To: >>>Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 2:22 PM >>>Subject: RE: [origamiboats] Inverter Welder >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>If you have $2000 to spend, get the biggest best welder possible >>>> >>>> >>(amps and >> >> >>>>duty cycle). I would think about flux cored mig if you can get >>>> >>>> >>one that >> >> >>>>will >>>>weld 1/4" and 1/2" plate for $2k. That is going to lay down the >>>> >>>> >>most bead >> >> >>>>the fastest and with the flux core, it will weld in the wind >>>> >>>> >>outside. >> >> >>>>I would worry about the wiring after I bought the machine. You >>>> >>>> >>can >> >> >>>>probably >>>>run a wire to the shed for $100-200 dollars I would think. >>>> >>>>My opinion is get good tools. They pay for themselves. >>>> >>>> >>Especially the >> >> >>>>welder. You are going to be using it a lot and you want it to >>>> >>>> >>produce good >> >> >>>>welds. >>>> >>>>I am using a Lincoln AC buzzbox right now and I still haven't >>>> >>>> >>quite got >> >> >>>>the >>>>hang of it. I had some pros over to do some critical welding and >>>> >>>> >>they >> >> >>>>didn't >>>>like it. Said it was too cold. They then rolled in some diesel >>>> >>>> >>machines >> >> >>>>and >>>>went to town! I just ordered a flux core kit for my Lincoln sp- >>>> >>>> >>170t mig >> >> >>>>welder. I think it might have enough power to weld the topside >>>> >>>> >>structure. >> >> >>>>-----Original Message----- >>>>From: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com >>>> >>>> >>[mailto:origamiboats@yahoogroups.com] >> >> >>>>On >>>>Behalf Of tom >>>>Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 3:49 PM >>>>To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com >>>>Subject: Re: [origamiboats] Inverter Welder >>>> >>>>Hello Darren >>>> I would have to say try one before you buy one it might not be >>>> >>>> >>as good as >> >> >>>>you think for stick welding. 2000 $ seems a little pricey for a >>>> >>>> >>185 amp >> >> >>>>machine with only a 40% duty cycle. I would recomend putting >>>> >>>> >>220v in youre >> >> >>>>shed capable of 60 amps and then starting with a lincoln or >>>> >>>> >>miller 220v >> >> >>>>busbox welder,you can buy them new for 4-500 $ new and used >>>> >>>> >>around a 100 >> >> >>>>$. >>>>Then latter on if you need it upgrade to bigger welder or even >>>> >>>> >>a mig >> >> >>>>Tom >>>>----- Original Message ----- >>>>From: "drnhurley" >>>>To: >>>>Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 1:01 PM >>>>Subject: [origamiboats] Inverter Welder >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>Hi guys, I've been reading the list for a while now and really >>>>> >>>>> >>enjoy >> >> >>>>>the wealth of experience and ideas found here. Although I am >>>>> >>>>> >>many >> >> >>>>>years away from building an origami boat (I have a little >>>>> >>>>> >>Hurley 20 >> >> >>>>>Bilge Keel that meets all my needs for now). I would like to >>>>> >>>>> >>start >> >> >>>>>building the skills and equipment necessary to build an origami >>>>> >>>>> >>boat >> >> >>>>>someday. To this end I am considering buying a welder. My >>>>> >>>>> >>short- >> >> >>>>>term projects would be something like making a wind vane >>>>> >>>>> >>steering >> >> >>>>>system and maybe a trailer for the boat. An Inverter Tig/Stick >>>>>welder looks very attractive because of the greater portability >>>>> >>>>> >>and >> >> >>>>>lower amp draw for the same output (would save me running new >>>>> >>>>> >>wiring >> >> >>>>>to the detached garage 100' from the house). Do any of you >>>>> >>>>> >>have any >> >> >>>>>experience with smaller (185 amp) inverter welders or other >>>>>suggestions of what might be a better investment? I realize >>>>> >>>>> >>that I >> >> >>>>>would likely need something with greater output when it comes >>>>> >>>>> >>time to >> >> >>>>>build a boat, but is seems a small (40lbs) tig/stick welder >>>>> >>>>> >>would be >> >> >>>>>useful for all sorts of smaller projects around the boat and >>>>> >>>>> >>might >> >> >>>>>even be small enough to take along when I do finally set off >>>>> >>>>> >>for and >> >> >>>>>extended period of time? Any comments would be appreciated. >>>>> >>>>> >>Full >> >> >>>>>details of one of the welders I'm considering is below. >>>>> >>>>>Thermal Arc 185TSW approx. $2000 US >>>>>-True square wave AC/DC output with full range capability from >>>>> >>>>> >>185 to >> >> >>>>>5 amps >>>>>-Duty Cycle 40% at 180 amps stick >>>>>-Duty Cycle 30% at 180 amps Tig >>>>>-Tig modes slope repeat and spot >>>>>-Current Sloper, Current Pulser and variable frequency, wave >>>>> >>>>> >>balance >> >> >>>>>control, and Lift or HF assisted starting >>>>>-Weight 40lbs >>>>> >>>>>Cheers, Darren >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com >>>>>To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: >>>>>origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com >>>>>Yahoo! Groups Links >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com >>>>To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: >>>>origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com >>>>Yahoo! Groups Links >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com >>>>To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: >>>>origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com >>>>Yahoo! Groups Links >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>>To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com >>>To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: >>>origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com >>>Yahoo! Groups Links >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >>To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com >>To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: >>origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com >>Yahoo! Groups Links >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > >To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com >To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > | 10507|10496|2006-02-16 19:10:16|Carl Volkwein|Re: Clearing up the welding confusion|Hi All, i don't know if this will help or confuse, but when I was welding, back in my 20's, an old timer told me(-) meant straight polarity, and (+) meant Cross polarity. Carl from WVa. Wesley Cox wrote: One point not mentioned that is relevant for welding steel that has been outside (origami boats) is AC welding works (much) better on dirty and rusty metal. AC current requires an AC rod to work well, 6011 is my first choice. AC requires more finesse to start an arc. It tends to stick more so than DC positive or negative. jericoera wrote: >I just received some answers I had regarding polarity in welding. I >am confident in the source as it is a Lincoln educational rep and he >gave me a website here: >http://www.allaboutcircuits.com/vol_1/chpt_1/7.html >which further supports his statement . > >He stated that commonly and falsely people believe current flows >positive to negative when in fact it is the reverse. > >That is why if youask ten welders about polarity you will get >several different answers as to which is which. > >So once and for all DCEP is DC electrode positive welding and is >also known as reverse polarity whereby the electrons flow from the >piece that is being welded into the electrode (welding rod) > >Generally speaking more heat is created in the electrode resulting >in less penetration. Good way to go for thinner materials. > >DCEN , DC electrode negative has the electrons flowing from the rod >into the workpiece causing more heat in the workpiece and better >penetration. > >Experienced welders that I have talked to say that although the >material gets hotter with DCEN, that it actually provides less >distortion as it is heated quicker. Another guy told me to forget >DCEN and just leave the welder set to DCEP (reverse polarity) and >forget about it. > >One thing I can say is that DC welding at least on my buzz box has >fewer arc outages and much smoother arc starts with little spatter. > >You also usually can run lower amps at DC than you would for AC. >(given the same rod and material thickness) > >DC will not work with all rods and it will not work very well at all >with material that has become magnetized. > >Arctec 223 rod which I believe is similar to a 7024 or 7018 welds >incredible with DC though the rod is a bit more expensive. It is >used extensively for industrial applications fixing heavy machinery >in Powlel River here. > >Carl McIntosh > > > > > >To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com >To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com SPONSORED LINKS British columbia canada Vancouver island Yacht --------------------------------- YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. --------------------------------- --------------------------------- Brings words and photos together (easily) with PhotoMail - it's free and works with Yahoo! Mail. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]| 10508|10377|2006-02-16 19:58:21|Carl Volkwein|Re: Cheap diesel.|But will they let you enter under youle, or oars? The boat would still be under control, I was a whitewater raft guide, and we went through some hellatious currents, and only had paddles or oars for control, no engines there, if you play the currents and eddies rite ,you don't need a whole lot of thrust. Carl from WVa. sae140 wrote: Entrance to Hoeke of Holland: "no tacking or beating - engine must be ready for instant start". "Special notes for Belgium and the Netherlands. Rules: Hbr police are strict about yachts using their engines entering harbour." Source: Reeds Almanac (UK & Western Europe) Colin --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Richard Till" wrote: > > Vancouver Harbour has areas where it is not permitted to proceed under sail. > rt > > > >From: "prairiemaidca" > >Reply-To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > >To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > >Subject: [origamiboats] Cheap diesel. > >Date: Sun, 05 Feb 2006 19:31:23 -0000 > > > >Hi all; If someone is looking for a real deal on a V.W. 1.6 litre > >engine I still have a fully rebuilt one here for sale. Are there > >places that will not allow you to enter under sail?? Could be a major > >hassel for an engineless vessel... Martin... (Praire Maid) > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Powerful Parental Controls Let your child discover the best the Internet has > to offer. > http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en- ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Mar ket_MSNIS_Taglines > Start enjoying all the benefits of MSN® Premium right now and get the > first two months FREE*. > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com SPONSORED LINKS British columbia canada Vancouver island Yacht --------------------------------- YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. --------------------------------- --------------------------------- Yahoo! Mail Use Photomail to share photos without annoying attachments. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]| 10509|10509|2006-02-16 21:15:09|tom|BS 26 steel prices|Hello All FYI Looks like steel prices have come down a little, just recieved the last of the 12 gage needed for cabin and it was 48 cents a pound here in the US . So far Ive spent $1780.00 for the steel but I still need more for the keel, skeg, and rudder. rough figure on the rest of the steel needed the total should be about $2100.00 Tom [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]| 10510|10510|2006-02-17 10:08:34|jericoera|Respirator question|I don't have a separate air supply for stick welding so I bought a respirator that has two particulate cartridges on it-one on each side of the face mask. They fit well under my helmet and were recommended by a guy that sells dozen of them to people who weld for a living. Anybody know if that sort of set up is good enough? The cartidges are flat round 3 inch disks pink in color--I forget there model but I'll look it up and post it Carl M| 10513|10513|2006-02-17 10:20:21|jericoera|respirator update|I'll answer my own question here. I researched into it and my stuff is a 3M 2091 P100 dual cartridge set up on a 6000 series mask. It was $35 for the whole set up and according to 3m'S close to 100 percent effective against oil and non oil airborn particles. Its highly recommended for brazing welding and torch cutting and is good against arsenic, and lead as well. Hopefully this info will be useful to others Carl McIntosh| 10514|10510|2006-02-17 12:11:12|edward_stoneuk|Re: Respirator question|Carl M. I found that sort difficult with my glasses and fitting the helemt on top. There are different sorts of filter elements: some are for dusts and some for vapours. I bought a kit for the helmet that connects to a battery powered fan and filter that fits on a belt. It is good as it blows fresh air over ones face that keeps my glasses and the helmet glass from misting up in cold weather. The downside is that it is fiendishly expensive. Regards, Ted| 10515|10503|2006-02-17 14:41:06|Henri Naths|Re: Welding and magnets|re, arc blow ----- Original Message ----- From: "prairiemaidca" To: Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2006 8:21 AM Subject: [origamiboats] Welding and magnets > Hi All: I was doing some welding in Prairie Maids hull and couldn't > figure out what was going wrong. It turned out that by having the large > magnet that was holding the piece so close to the weld site it was > effecting the welding process big time. Once the magnet was moved all > was back to normal. I had no idea that a magnetic field could have > such a powerfull effect on the arc and it's ability to form a puddle. > Definitly something to consider when using those very helpful magnets > to hold things in place. Martin.. > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > | 10516|10516|2006-02-17 16:38:38|jericoera|A great website for metalworkers!!! Very impressed|My buddy sent me a link for www.backyardmetalcasting.com Great website with lots of books and info on metalwork for the do it yourself types. Carl M| 10517|10517|2006-02-17 17:17:40|Gerd|just for fun ;-)|go have a look at what 22 knots looks and sounds like ;-) http://www.volvooceanrace.org/mediaplayer/index.aspx?guid=19e64c70- c0ba-4811-87ae-776db704ec83&bhcp=1| 10518|10518|2006-02-17 19:41:18|tom|Re: More respirator stuff|Yep that's the same one I use when welding galvanized and they seem to work ok ,I aint dead yet. I also use the ones sold from some of the welding supply stores there more like a regular dusk mask but the have a little check valve in the center and the are a little more comfortable in hot weather. none of them last long in the welding environment so keep a spare handy Tom ----- Original Message ----- From: "jericoera" To: Sent: Friday, February 17, 2006 7:11 AM Subject: [origamiboats] More respirator stuff >I checked. The filters I use are 3M NIOSH approved Model 2091 "P100" > and they fit a 6000 series nose/mouth mask. > > Anyway, anyone knowing much about these things feel free to offer your > opinion on the product > > Carl M > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > | 10519|10519|2006-02-18 09:35:59|prairiemaidca|clean air|Hi All; I too have been using the 3m system with what we call the pink cheeks. I've used this system from the start. The mask had to be replaced do to the soft rubber starting to break down do to skin oils but other than the replacement filters it works well. I don't think I'd go so far as using this equipment for the ballasting of the hull. I bought an extra long hose for my scuba regulator and breathed bottled air for that ugly procedure.. For those working with Gal. welding and for the stainless things(grind and weld) some sort of protection is mandatory for good health. Even regular welding in confined space you should protect yourself. Martin..| 10520|10519|2006-02-18 12:01:02|jericoera|Re: clean air|Are you using the 3M system for stainless also? I have been but in a well ventilated space. Carl M --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "prairiemaidca" wrote: > > Hi All; I too have been using the 3m system with what we call the pink > cheeks. I've used this system from the start. The mask had to be > replaced do to the soft rubber starting to break down do to skin oils > but other than the replacement filters it works well. I don't think > I'd go so far as using this equipment for the ballasting of the hull. > I bought an extra long hose for my scuba regulator and breathed bottled > air for that ugly procedure.. For those working with Gal. welding and > for the stainless things(grind and weld) some sort of protection is > mandatory for good health. Even regular welding in confined space you > should protect yourself. Martin.. > | 10521|10519|2006-02-18 14:12:53|Aaron|Re: clean air|You should still maintain good ventilation and wear a HEPA filter or breathing air supplied mask. I have used 3m and Norton for years in the Chemical plant I work in. I use the 3m at home as well. -- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "jericoera" wrote: > > Are you using the 3M system for stainless also? I have been but in a > well ventilated space. > > Carl M > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "prairiemaidca" > wrote: > > > > Hi All; I too have been using the 3m system with what we call the > pink > > cheeks. I've used this system from the start. The mask had to be > > replaced do to the soft rubber starting to break down do to skin > oils > > but other than the replacement filters it works well. I don't > think > > I'd go so far as using this equipment for the ballasting of the > hull. > > I bought an extra long hose for my scuba regulator and breathed > bottled > > air for that ugly procedure.. For those working with Gal. welding > and > > for the stainless things(grind and weld) some sort of protection > is > > mandatory for good health. Even regular welding in confined space > you > > should protect yourself. Martin.. > > > | 10522|9840|2006-02-18 20:06:05|tazmannusa|BS 26|Hello All I mannaged to get the rest of the decking on today and I think it turning out ok. After I had all the forward decking on I took the measurements from the boat for the lazaret section, layed it out on one plate and put one deck beam on it to keep the camber I wanted. It didnt go in as easy as I wanted but it did fit. I posted a few more pictures in the photos file in origamiboats2 . Anyway this is starting to be a lot of fun now, I like being able to work a few hours on it and seeing progress. I have a question on stainless steel, My steel supplyer carries 304 grade pipe, is this a good grade for making the railing or should I look for 316 grade for better corrosion resistance ? Tom| 10523|10519|2006-02-19 01:03:35|Aaron|Re: clean air|You should still maintain good ventilation and wear a HEPA filter or breathing air supplied mask. I have used 3m and Norton for years in the Chemical plant I work in. I use the 3m at home as well. -- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "jericoera" wrote: > > Are you using the 3M system for stainless also? I have been but in a > well ventilated space. > > Carl M > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "prairiemaidca" > wrote: > > > > Hi All; I too have been using the 3m system with what we call the > pink > > cheeks. I've used this system from the start. The mask had to be > > replaced do to the soft rubber starting to break down do to skin > oils > > but other than the replacement filters it works well. I don't > think > > I'd go so far as using this equipment for the ballasting of the > hull. > > I bought an extra long hose for my scuba regulator and breathed > bottled > > air for that ugly procedure.. For those working with Gal. welding > and > > for the stainless things(grind and weld) some sort of protection > is > > mandatory for good health. Even regular welding in confined space > you > > should protect yourself. Martin.. > > > | 10524|9840|2006-02-19 03:12:09|Len den Besten|Re: BS 26|Tom, I've been asking the same around here. Opinions differ and are mostly depending on the person's own commercial interests. I tried some googling and ended up here: http://www.assda.asn.au/asp/index.asp?pgid=17991&cid=34299&id=56951 The answer here is: compared with 304, 316 has 2% molybdene added which increases corrosion resistance further. 304 is only suited in a marine environment when washed every day with freshwater. I will stick to 316. Ok, it's more expensive and I will have to buy complete lengths of 6 meters (or find a yard thats has in stock what I need) but I will not be disappointed when seawater has eaten it's way in a few years. Len. --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "tazmannusa" wrote: > I have a question on stainless steel, My steel supplyer carries 304 > grade pipe, is this a good grade for making the railing or should I > look for 316 grade for better corrosion resistance ? > Tom > | 10525|9840|2006-02-19 04:22:15|edward_stoneuk|Re: BS 26|Tom, I used 316 rather than 304 for my handrails, because I believe 316 to be more corrosion resistant. Likewise I use A4 (316)rather than A2 (304 fasteners when I need stainless. Regards, Ted| 10526|10526|2006-02-19 04:52:43|edward_stoneuk|Trim Tab Mountings|Hi all, Checking out the drawings and photos of trim tabs most seem to have their axis of revolution as centre of the 1/2" pipe that runs through the tab. The drawing shows pipe gudgeons welded to the rudder a bit closer as if the tab's axis was at or infront of the tab as it is with the rudder. In some photos it looks difficult to remove the tab without lifting it, springing out the bottom pintle then dropping it down past the middle gudgeon. I am just about to fit mine and would be very grateful for any advice. Regards, Ted| 10527|10527|2006-02-19 05:00:23|edward_stoneuk|Marcel's vertical dorades|Bonjour Marcel, I have just looked at your dorade photos and am impressed by the slots. How did you cut them? Regards, Ted| 10528|10528|2006-02-19 06:30:56|Puck III|Re: BS 26'|Hi All ,hi Tom ,hi Ted,hi Len please find here under a repost from interesting private mail regarding the EU certification Topic . The size or type or country of origin of the boat is irrelevant. A direct Link to the new pics I posted under Ben's Stuff in Origmiboats2 Files is : http://tinyurl.com/8ggtq Rob's Dealer - BioDiesel.jpg Making money Today with the same good designed and build boat :-) --------------- http://www.wangka.be/ is Rob's Dealer fine website. The Wangka.be are real fine builders and people . The pic with the Swift Solo is a 2005 Pic The pics where you See OCC.be with a SMILE is a 2006 Pic The Aloa27 boats still used today are exactly the same designed and build as in the 25 year old order form :-) Was the decision to become Rob's Dealer a wise business decision?? Time will show ! Personaly I really believe you take NO RISKS in business. Professionals in the Charter business know that all to well. Anyone considering a serieproduct a the best price should know you cannot and may not ignore the major CharterCompanies as essential buyers and partners to succes. Would it be wise for anybody , to buy a proven plan and or a certified product ?? Everybody is free to test a boat by renting one for a short or longer period. I believe we all know a bit about boatdesign and boatbuilding:-) We never asked any downpayment for any of our builds since more than 25 years . Senegal for Europeans [with Casablance Cuba under serious consideration as another testsbase for North Americans] will give any potential builder or buyer the possibility to test a good well equiped boat for himself with wife and kids or with sailing friends. Are the pics and comments worth considering? This is a nice International and active Group. I sure allways love to receive any comment ,feedback or advise , in this Group or Privately . Cheers !! Old Ben PS: if you are in for a good laugh and a smile look at the latest pics and their most funny Links given in those pics in : http://www.buildingyourboat.com/tiki-browse_gallery.php?galleryId=6 my personal favorite is the GGPLF-COMBO , the latest for now, a Solar Powered Motion Activated most handy tool on any boat :-) As allways my Scotsh plays a major role :-) ================================== Hi Charles , the international show in Ghent Belgium continues until next sunday [ included ] Yesterday people from or Belgian Ministery came for a control to see if EU certification papers where present . The Belgian importer from a real nice French designed and build light trailorsailor , that did not jet received his French certification was obliged to accept 3 large posts , sealed very visible on the boats hull, that this boat could not be presented for Sale . Just imagine the negative publicity . Afther the Gent show , they have allready reserved and payed for the Amsterdam Show , where the same will happen to them. I met Belgian representatives of US and Canadian products. The boat , the stand , the EU certification was payd for by the Builders in the first place . As I explained earlyer , I would not depart from my precious money under any condition , that hold any risk . Tomorow I have a meeting with some of my more than 25 year long dealers . They take no risks either . Please give me 10 more days , before giving you a worthy opinion , what the market demand is . Time is on your hand , everybody has stock and wants to sell !! My only advise for now . NO RISKS and DO NOT HURRY !!!!! Please do not believe in false promisses , all I can do is inform you with daily reality . Best regards OB >From: charles >To: ben Azo >Subject: RE: BBB >Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2006 23:00:09 +0100 (CET) > >Hi OB, > I hope you're not too busy after the Belgian Boat Show; if you are, just answer me if it's possible or not to help me in the purchase/import of the NorseBoat. > > Did you see small interesting trailerable light sail-boats during this Show? > > I send you the quote Kevin Jeffrey (Norseboat builder) sent me; the 2005 prices (boat and options) he'll give me, make a discount (2006 prices/2005 prices difference) of xxxx usd (boat) + xxx usd (options I choose) = xxxx usd; and xx% dicount as a future french agent in my area. So a total of around x000 usd. > > I'll wait for your answer about a professional who could be soon interested in helping me to import/purchase the boat. > Perhaps they could only do the import-work : then I'ld do the purchase and shipping with Kevin and they'ld do the import work (custom+VAT) when the boat arrives in Antwerpen (or in a french port if possible); I'ld pick up the boat when custom + VAT paid and professional work paid, upon my trailer behind my car. > > Do you know which is the VAT and which are the custom taxes for this boat in Belgium? > Is it true that one can import a boat from Canada (or USA...) in any European country, paying taxes + VAT in this country even if less expensive, and after be free to sail in France (without having to pay the VAT difference if it's more expensive in France) ? > > Thank you in advance for keeping contact. > Best, Charles. > > > >ben Azo a écrit : > Hi Charles , sorry for the late reply but things are a bit hectic here . > >I join a 1980 order copy with OCC in attachment for you to see the way I >deal >since more than 25 years :-) secure prime bank insured guarantee=less risk >:-) >http://www.occyachting.com/ is the customer's website today >we became real friends over the years , more than 200 boats permanently >in use...... they sure know how , and with who to do good business . > >http://www.buildingyourboat.com/tiki-browse_gallery.php?galleryId=6 >2500 visits since 11jan 2006 >http://www.buildingyourboat.com/tiki-browse_gallery.php?galleryId=4 >4000 visits since 15dec 2005 >------- >6500 visitors will show you need a lot of visitors to do business . > >Short : Boatbusiness can be real funn and real proffitable if handeled well >. > >The professionals will be very pleased to meet me at the boatshow , >they are always happy to do business . >The professionals usualy consult me before entering a new market segment. >They always want to bring a new product for wish there is a demand . >That is good & smart boatbusiness . > >Sorry to say Charles , I am really not impressed with the 8 emailadresses >and with the deal the Canadians proposed to you . >I think you must separate business and pleasure totaly . >Do not follow your hart or love...rather good sence and brains . >I hope this direct language is not offensive to you . > >A free Skype telephone conference could come in handy >ben_azo is my Skype name , as usual :-) > >Keep me posted , I will tell you the professionals respons during or >afther the Gent BoatShow. > >Best OB | 10529|9840|2006-02-19 09:15:48|Puck III|Re: BS 26|Hi Tom , I had a good look at the pics you posted . All is looking fine . You could have a look at 5 nice pics from the Dehler Optima 26' trailorsailor by Van de Stadt 2,5m wide , exactly the same dimensions of the BS 26' You do Not have to build the inside steering :-) But I like the deckhouse , not to high easy to look above etcetera .Real Traditional !!! I would design things a bit different , but that interior shows ALL the BS 26' has a lot to offer. See: http://tinyurl.com/8bwcw Usefull post ?? You tell me ! Old Ben =============== --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "tazmannusa" wrote: > > Hello All > I mannaged to get the rest of the decking on today and I think it > turning out ok. After I had all the forward decking on I took the > measurements from the boat for the lazaret section, layed it out on > one plate and put one deck beam on it to keep the camber I wanted. It > didnt go in as easy as I wanted but it did fit. I posted a few more > pictures in the photos file in origamiboats2 . > Anyway this is starting to be a lot of fun now, I like being able to > work a few hours on it and seeing progress. > I have a question on stainless steel, My steel supplyer carries 304 > grade pipe, is this a good grade for making the railing or should I > look for 316 grade for better corrosion resistance ? > Tom > | 10530|9840|2006-02-19 09:20:38|tom|Re: BS 26|Thanks Ted, Len Looks like I will be better of to use 316 grade. At first I was thinking of using galvanized pipe but I think it would look more like a work boat, A little eye candy would be nice. I will have to do a little checking around to see what's available. Ted Did you figure out what was going on with you're photo file? Don't this figure Everytime I get a new stack of steel on the ground it rains. I was all motivated to work on the boat today and its poring out. Owh Well Tom ----- Original Message ----- From: "edward_stoneuk" To: Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2006 1:21 AM Subject: [origamiboats] Re: BS 26 > Tom, > I used 316 rather than 304 for my handrails, because I believe 316 to > be more corrosion resistant. Likewise I use A4 (316)rather than A2 > (304 fasteners when I need stainless. > Regards, > Ted > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > | 10531|9840|2006-02-19 09:35:14|Aaron Williams|Re: BS 26|Tom, Remember to use a non contaminated stainless steel brush when cleaning your welds on any SS or you will have rust spots. tom wrote: Thanks Ted, Len Looks like I will be better of to use 316 grade. At first I was thinking of using galvanized pipe but I think it would look more like a work boat, A little eye candy would be nice. I will have to do a little checking around to see what's available. Ted Did you figure out what was going on with you're photo file? Don't this figure Everytime I get a new stack of steel on the ground it rains. I was all motivated to work on the boat today and its poring out. Owh Well Tom ----- Original Message ----- From: "edward_stoneuk" To: Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2006 1:21 AM Subject: [origamiboats] Re: BS 26 > Tom, > I used 316 rather than 304 for my handrails, because I believe 316 to > be more corrosion resistant. Likewise I use A4 (316)rather than A2 > (304 fasteners when I need stainless. > Regards, > Ted > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com SPONSORED LINKS British columbia canada Vancouver island Yacht --------------------------------- YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. --------------------------------- --------------------------------- Yahoo! Autos. Looking for a sweet ride? Get pricing, reviews, & more on new and used cars. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 10532|9840|2006-02-19 14:28:06|paulcotter@acsalaska.net|Re: BS 26|Thanks Ben, That is how I have been enivisioning an interior for my BS 26. Simple and cheap with scrounged materials. Cheers Paul [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]| 10533|9840|2006-02-19 18:17:21|edward_stoneuk|Re: BS 26|Aaron, Tom, I use passivating gel areound the weld heat affected area so that the chrome oxide layer reforms to protect the metal from rusting. If one doesn't use it the weld area will probably rust. Passivating gel is very acid and cleans the stainless back so that the chrome oxide can reform and hence the metal is passive and will not react to rust. Stainless steel tanks sometimes are not passivated inside because it would require dipping in a bath of passivating fluid and then flushing and then folks are dissapointed when the seams rust and fail. Regards, Ted| 10534|9840|2006-02-19 18:23:52|edward_stoneuk|Re: BS 26 Photo file|Tom. > Ted Did you figure out what was going on with you're photo file? No I didn't. As I write this I see that Aaron is online but I, according to the little face am not. I have ticked the box to show when I am online and I type my password as required but I can access everything apart from my photo album. I guess somethings we are not supposed to understand. Regards, Ted| 10535|9840|2006-02-19 22:43:18|Aaron Williams|Re: BS 26|I have heard of the gel used before just never used it myself. Just have Tig experence with thin walled SS pipe welding with full purge on the inside Never had a weld rust before but I know that if you weld SS to hot and move to slow you can burn up the crome. Aaron Where did you guys get the design for the BS26 ? edward_stoneuk wrote: Aaron, Tom, I use passivating gel areound the weld heat affected area so that the chrome oxide layer reforms to protect the metal from rusting. If one doesn't use it the weld area will probably rust. Passivating gel is very acid and cleans the stainless back so that the chrome oxide can reform and hence the metal is passive and will not react to rust. Stainless steel tanks sometimes are not passivated inside because it would require dipping in a bath of passivating fluid and then flushing and then folks are dissapointed when the seams rust and fail. Regards, Ted To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com SPONSORED LINKS British columbia canada Vancouver island Yacht --------------------------------- YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. --------------------------------- --------------------------------- Yahoo! Mail Use Photomail to share photos without annoying attachments. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]| 10536|10527|2006-02-19 22:58:19|Marcel Demers|Re: Marcel's vertical dorades|Bonjour Ted I did not build them myself but I checked it out and what you do is cut the complete square and weld SS rods from the outside for the vertical deviders.... for the rest a bit of grinder, sanding and polishing ...you can also use left over SS pieces of the same thickeness as the pipe so you can make the deviders as wide as you want make sure you smood the side edges before you weld them on ....................hope this helps Marcel ----- Original Message ----- From: "edward_stoneuk" To: Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2006 4:59 AM Subject: [origamiboats] Marcel's vertical dorades > Bonjour Marcel, > > I have just looked at your dorade photos and am impressed by the > slots. How did you cut them? > > Regards, > Ted > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > | 10537|9840|2006-02-20 02:55:03|Puck III|Re: BS 26|Thanks Paul, I think you may as well build it simple :-) simple ofthen is beautifull !!! Look at some simple real small houses to see how neat it can be , sure not everybody's taste, but thats the kinda furniture , adapted to a boat anybody can build . SEE : http://www.tumbleweedhouses.com/houses.htm# outlets for the simple farmestyle equipment in the Links: http://www.tumbleweedhouses.com/links.htm If you cannot build or assemble that , I wonder if it is safe dreaming to build a boat in the first place. What do you think ??? Cheers Old Ben ========================= --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, wrote: > > Thanks Ben, > > That is how I have been enivisioning an interior for my BS 26. Simple and cheap with scrounged materials. > > Cheers > > Paul > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > | 10538|9840|2006-02-20 03:38:09|edward_stoneuk|Re: BS 26|Aaron, Yes I guess I am talking about MIG or perhaps stick welding of tanks. I used stick welding on the handrails and there is quite a bit of heat affected area. Regards, Ted --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Aaron Williams wrote: > > I have heard of the gel used before just never used it myself. Just have Tig experence with thin walled SS pipe welding with full purge on the inside Never had a weld rust before but I know that if you weld SS to hot and move to slow you can burn up the crome. > Aaron > Where did you guys get the design for the BS26 ? > > > edward_stoneuk wrote: > Aaron, Tom, > I use passivating gel areound the weld heat affected area so that the > chrome oxide layer reforms to protect the metal from rusting. If one > doesn't use it the weld area will probably rust. Passivating gel is > very acid and cleans the stainless back so that the chrome oxide can > reform and hence the metal is passive and will not react to rust. > Stainless steel tanks sometimes are not passivated inside because it > would require dipping in a bath of passivating fluid and then flushing > and then folks are dissapointed when the seams rust and fail. > Regards, > Ted > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats- unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > SPONSORED LINKS > British columbia canada Vancouver island Yacht > > --------------------------------- > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > > Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > > --------------------------------- > > > > > > --------------------------------- > Yahoo! Mail > Use Photomail to share photos without annoying attachments. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > | 10539|10528|2006-02-20 11:31:01|sae140|Re: BS 26'|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III" wrote: > > http://www.wangka.be/ is Rob's Dealer fine website. > The Wangka.be are real fine builders and people . Perhaps not the best choice of name for a company wanting to be taken seriously ? Colin| 10540|10528|2006-02-20 17:34:48|Puck III|Re: BS 26'|What's the meaning of that name ?? Polynesian probably ?? you tell me :-) OB --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "sae140" wrote: > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III" wrote: > > > > http://www.wangka.be/ is Rob's Dealer fine website. > > The Wangka.be are real fine builders and people . > > Perhaps not the best choice of name for a company wanting > to be taken seriously ? > > Colin > | 10541|9840|2006-02-20 20:56:19|Puck III|Re: BS 26 + 26' HusebatOptions .|Hehehe , the Tumbleweedhouses simple but functional cabins made me think a bit....a nice Combo pic to show you how my twisted mind can work :-) Offshore may not be everybodys cup of thea . Rivers and coastal houseboating has a lot to offer !!! As long as it is on Origami Hull[s], some may see it as a worthy option . A 24' to 30' trailor-multi can be a way to start boating , traditional or modern , just a cheap hideway or a small riverdwelling . Worth looking at ??? See : http://tinyurl.com/p69ea the Links are at the bottom of the Combo pic . Cheers Old Ben --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III" wrote: > > Thanks Paul, I think you may as well build it simple :-) > simple ofthen is beautifull !!! Look at some simple real small > houses to see how neat it can be , sure not everybody's taste, > but thats the kinda furniture , adapted to a boat > anybody can build . SEE : > > http://www.tumbleweedhouses.com/houses.htm# > outlets for the simple farmestyle equipment in the Links: > http://www.tumbleweedhouses.com/links.htm > > If you cannot build or assemble that , I wonder > if it is safe dreaming to build a boat in the first place. > > What do you think ??? > Cheers > Old Ben > ========================= > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, wrote: > > > > Thanks Ben, > > > > That is how I have been enivisioning an interior for my BS 26. > Simple and cheap with scrounged materials. > > > > Cheers > > > > Paul > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > | 10542|9840|2006-02-20 23:15:58|Aaron Williams|Re: BS 26 + 26' HusebatOptions .|Ben Do you have any more detail on the cat thats on the left of the cabin houseboat bottom left of page? Puck III wrote: Hehehe , the Tumbleweedhouses simple but functional cabins made me think a bit....a nice Combo pic to show you how my twisted mind can work :-) Offshore may not be everybodys cup of thea . Rivers and coastal houseboating has a lot to offer !!! As long as it is on Origami Hull[s], some may see it as a worthy option . A 24' to 30' trailor-multi can be a way to start boating , traditional or modern , just a cheap hideway or a small riverdwelling . Worth looking at ??? See : http://tinyurl.com/p69ea the Links are at the bottom of the Combo pic . Cheers Old Ben --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III" wrote: > > Thanks Paul, I think you may as well build it simple :-) > simple ofthen is beautifull !!! Look at some simple real small > houses to see how neat it can be , sure not everybody's taste, > but thats the kinda furniture , adapted to a boat > anybody can build . SEE : > > http://www.tumbleweedhouses.com/houses.htm# > outlets for the simple farmestyle equipment in the Links: > http://www.tumbleweedhouses.com/links.htm > > If you cannot build or assemble that , I wonder > if it is safe dreaming to build a boat in the first place. > > What do you think ??? > Cheers > Old Ben > ========================= > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, wrote: > > > > Thanks Ben, > > > > That is how I have been enivisioning an interior for my BS 26. > Simple and cheap with scrounged materials. > > > > Cheers > > > > Paul > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com SPONSORED LINKS British columbia canada Vancouver island Yacht --------------------------------- YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. --------------------------------- --------------------------------- Relax. Yahoo! Mail virus scanning helps detect nasty viruses! [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 10543|9840|2006-02-21 01:00:22|Puck III|Re: BS 26 + 26' HusebatOptions .|Hi Aaron , you picked the Most interesting Origami boat !!! That Cat is one of my Favorites :-) Designed by Derek Kelsall , that proven Origami design commes in different versions and with many Options . You can find the prelims I posted there , cause they are not online anymore in : http://groups.yahoo.com/group/KSSBoat/ Derek who is as young as I am has an interesting website: http://www.kelsall.com/ It is no secret to reveal to you , see : http://groups.yahoo.com/group/boatwheels/ that what I hope to be the first real totaly independant amphibian multi is worked on along Derek Kelsall's design . In collaboration with one of the best experts available today. Since moorings are at a premium price in Europe, also becoming more difficult to find and more expensive elswhere , a most interesting amphibian is worked on right now :-) A first similar designed Belgian owned boat and pics with wheels can be found in Dereks Group Needles to say , I have almost all whats available as info and pics about that boat available. The folding system , the hulls is proven and have been tested succesfully :-) I do not like surprises !!!! I can also direct you to the Amphibian version . You will find it easely in the boatwheels group. With the pics of a tested and proven real amphibean, that doubles as a legalroadtrailor :-) Enjoy :-) Old Ben ==================== --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Aaron Williams wrote: > > Ben > Do you have any more detail on the cat thats on the left of the cabin houseboat > bottom left of page? > > Puck III wrote: > Hehehe , the Tumbleweedhouses simple but functional cabins > made me think a bit....a nice Combo pic to show you how > my twisted mind can work :-) > Offshore may not be everybodys cup of thea . > Rivers and coastal houseboating has a lot to offer !!! > As long as it is on Origami Hull[s], some may see it > as a worthy option . A 24' to 30' trailor-multi can > be a way to start boating , traditional or modern , > just a cheap hideway or a small riverdwelling . > Worth looking at ??? See : > http://tinyurl.com/p69ea > the Links are at the bottom of the Combo pic . > > Cheers > Old Ben > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III" wrote: > > > > Thanks Paul, I think you may as well build it simple :-) > > simple ofthen is beautifull !!! Look at some simple real small > > houses to see how neat it can be , sure not everybody's taste, > > but thats the kinda furniture , adapted to a boat > > anybody can build . SEE : > > > > http://www.tumbleweedhouses.com/houses.htm# > > outlets for the simple farmestyle equipment in the Links: > > http://www.tumbleweedhouses.com/links.htm > > > > If you cannot build or assemble that , I wonder > > if it is safe dreaming to build a boat in the first place. > > > > What do you think ??? > > Cheers > > Old Ben > > ========================= > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, wrote: > > > > > > Thanks Ben, > > > > > > That is how I have been enivisioning an interior for my BS 26. > > Simple and cheap with scrounged materials. > > > > > > Cheers > > > > > > Paul > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats- unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > SPONSORED LINKS > British columbia canada Vancouver island Yacht > > --------------------------------- > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > > Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > > --------------------------------- > > > > > > --------------------------------- > Relax. Yahoo! Mail virus scanning helps detect nasty viruses! > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > | 10544|9840|2006-02-21 01:43:30|Aaron Williams|Re: BS 26 + 26' HusebatOptions .|Thanks Ben Know of any cat for Aluminum origami construction? Puck III wrote: Hi Aaron , you picked the Most interesting Origami boat !!! That Cat is one of my Favorites :-) Designed by Derek Kelsall , that proven Origami design commes in different versions and with many Options . You can find the prelims I posted there , cause they are not online anymore in : http://groups.yahoo.com/group/KSSBoat/ Derek who is as young as I am has an interesting website: http://www.kelsall.com/ It is no secret to reveal to you , see : http://groups.yahoo.com/group/boatwheels/ that what I hope to be the first real totaly independant amphibian multi is worked on along Derek Kelsall's design . In collaboration with one of the best experts available today. Since moorings are at a premium price in Europe, also becoming more difficult to find and more expensive elswhere , a most interesting amphibian is worked on right now :-) A first similar designed Belgian owned boat and pics with wheels can be found in Dereks Group Needles to say , I have almost all whats available as info and pics about that boat available. The folding system , the hulls is proven and have been tested succesfully :-) I do not like surprises !!!! I can also direct you to the Amphibian version . You will find it easely in the boatwheels group. With the pics of a tested and proven real amphibean, that doubles as a legalroadtrailor :-) Enjoy :-) Old Ben ==================== --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Aaron Williams wrote: > > Ben > Do you have any more detail on the cat thats on the left of the cabin houseboat > bottom left of page? > > Puck III wrote: > Hehehe , the Tumbleweedhouses simple but functional cabins > made me think a bit....a nice Combo pic to show you how > my twisted mind can work :-) > Offshore may not be everybodys cup of thea . > Rivers and coastal houseboating has a lot to offer !!! > As long as it is on Origami Hull[s], some may see it > as a worthy option . A 24' to 30' trailor-multi can > be a way to start boating , traditional or modern , > just a cheap hideway or a small riverdwelling . > Worth looking at ??? See : > http://tinyurl.com/p69ea > the Links are at the bottom of the Combo pic . > > Cheers > Old Ben > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III" wrote: > > > > Thanks Paul, I think you may as well build it simple :-) > > simple ofthen is beautifull !!! Look at some simple real small > > houses to see how neat it can be , sure not everybody's taste, > > but thats the kinda furniture , adapted to a boat > > anybody can build . SEE : > > > > http://www.tumbleweedhouses.com/houses.htm# > > outlets for the simple farmestyle equipment in the Links: > > http://www.tumbleweedhouses.com/links.htm > > > > If you cannot build or assemble that , I wonder > > if it is safe dreaming to build a boat in the first place. > > > > What do you think ??? > > Cheers > > Old Ben > > ========================= > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, wrote: > > > > > > Thanks Ben, > > > > > > That is how I have been enivisioning an interior for my BS 26. > > Simple and cheap with scrounged materials. > > > > > > Cheers > > > > > > Paul > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats- unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > SPONSORED LINKS > British columbia canada Vancouver island Yacht > > --------------------------------- > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > > Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > > --------------------------------- > > > > > > --------------------------------- > Relax. Yahoo! Mail virus scanning helps detect nasty viruses! > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com SPONSORED LINKS British columbia canada Vancouver island Yacht --------------------------------- YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. --------------------------------- --------------------------------- Brings words and photos together (easily) with PhotoMail - it's free and works with Yahoo! Mail. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]| 10545|9840|2006-02-21 02:50:27|Puck III|Re: BS 26 + 26' HusebatOptions .|Aaron , I can't see any difficulty in redrawing and making correct scantlings equal to the KSS Cat , if that's the type of AluCat you are looking for . Derek Kelsall sure will make you a decent quote , you will benefit from proven experience . Other professional designers may give you equal good service. Every day new products and systems are proposed , I always try to keep an open mind and look for interesting innovations . The perfect boat does not exist , with a bit of luck and a good designgoal you may find the boat that performs best to fullfill your goals. So you end up with a performance boat : a boat that performs the way YOU want it to !!! OB ============ --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Aaron Williams wrote: > > Thanks Ben Know of any cat for Aluminum origami construction? > > Puck III wrote: Hi Aaron , you picked the Most interesting Origami boat !!! > That Cat is one of my Favorites :-) > Designed by Derek Kelsall , that proven Origami design > commes in different versions and with many Options . > You can find the prelims I posted there , cause they > are not online anymore in : > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/KSSBoat/ > Derek who is as young as I am has an interesting website: > http://www.kelsall.com/ > It is no secret to reveal to you , see : > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/boatwheels/ > that what I hope to be the first real > totaly independant amphibian multi is worked on > along Derek Kelsall's design . > In collaboration with one of the best experts available today. > Since moorings are at a premium price in Europe, > also becoming more difficult to find and more expensive > elswhere , a most interesting amphibian is > worked on right now :-) > A first similar designed Belgian owned boat and pics > with wheels can be found in Dereks Group > Needles to say , I have almost all whats available > as info and pics about that boat available. > The folding system , the hulls is proven and have > been tested succesfully :-) > I do not like surprises !!!! > I can also direct you to the Amphibian version . > You will find it easely in the boatwheels group. > With the pics of a tested and proven real amphibean, > that doubles as a legalroadtrailor :-) > > Enjoy :-) > > Old Ben > ==================== > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Aaron Williams > wrote: > > > > Ben > > Do you have any more detail on the cat thats on the left of the > cabin houseboat > > bottom left of page? > > > > Puck III wrote: > > Hehehe , the Tumbleweedhouses simple but functional cabins > > made me think a bit....a nice Combo pic to show you how > > my twisted mind can work :-) > > Offshore may not be everybodys cup of thea . > > Rivers and coastal houseboating has a lot to offer !!! > > As long as it is on Origami Hull[s], some may see it > > as a worthy option . A 24' to 30' trailor-multi can > > be a way to start boating , traditional or modern , > > just a cheap hideway or a small riverdwelling . > > Worth looking at ??? See : > > http://tinyurl.com/p69ea > > the Links are at the bottom of the Combo pic . > > > > Cheers > > Old Ben > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III" wrote: > > > > > > Thanks Paul, I think you may as well build it simple :-) > > > simple ofthen is beautifull !!! Look at some simple real small > > > houses to see how neat it can be , sure not everybody's taste, > > > but thats the kinda furniture , adapted to a boat > > > anybody can build . SEE : > > > > > > http://www.tumbleweedhouses.com/houses.htm# > > > outlets for the simple farmestyle equipment in the Links: > > > http://www.tumbleweedhouses.com/links.htm > > > > > > If you cannot build or assemble that , I wonder > > > if it is safe dreaming to build a boat in the first place. > > > > > > What do you think ??? > > > Cheers > > > Old Ben > > > ========================= > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, wrote: > > > > > > > > Thanks Ben, > > > > > > > > That is how I have been enivisioning an interior for my BS 26. > > > Simple and cheap with scrounged materials. > > > > > > > > Cheers > > > > > > > > Paul > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats- > unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > SPONSORED LINKS > > British columbia canada Vancouver island Yacht > > > > --------------------------------- > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > > > > > Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web. > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > Service. > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > Relax. Yahoo! Mail virus scanning helps detect nasty viruses! > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats- unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > SPONSORED LINKS > British columbia canada Vancouver island Yacht > > --------------------------------- > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > > Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > > --------------------------------- > > > > > > --------------------------------- > Brings words and photos together (easily) with > PhotoMail - it's free and works with Yahoo! Mail. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > | 10546|9840|2006-02-21 11:27:22|Puck III|Re: BS 26|Hi All , hi Ted , Aaron sure did not got his answer when he asked :Where did you guys get the design for the BS26 ? Tom,you may have been consulted by a BS 26'builder, to provide some design and lay out advise ! I am just guessing , cause I cant really understand all the interest the BS 26' is receiving . Just fill us in , I am so curious . I posted 2 pics for you in Origamiboats2 in the first PhotoAlbum : " Aloa 34' same build as the 27'build still used today :-) " there , so you can see a nice decklayout and a classic cockpit , ideal in combination with the interior steering . Regarding many construction details ,including how to build a real nice interior , I think Marcel Demers posts have to be regarded as a good guide for you while you work out your interior plan . I hope the Link to : http://www.tumbleweedhouses.com/houses.htm# was usefull to you , Marcel sure can give you some more good tricks and suggestions . Tom , do not forget you need to provide EU certification documents , if you consider setting up a professional outlet:-) Or am I wrong ? Regards Old Ben =================================== --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "edward_stoneuk" wrote: > > Aaron, > Yes I guess I am talking about MIG or perhaps stick welding of > tanks. I used stick welding on the handrails and there is quite a > bit of heat affected area. > Regards, > Ted =================================== --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Aaron Williams wrote: > > I have heard of the gel used before just never used it myself. Just have Tig experence with thin walled SS pipe welding with full purge on the inside Never had a weld rust before but I know that if you weld SS to hot and move to slow you can burn up the crome. > Aaron > Where did you guys get the design for the BS26 ? > > > edward_stoneuk wrote: > Aaron, Tom, > I use passivating gel areound the weld heat affected area so that the > chrome oxide layer reforms to protect the metal from rusting. If one > doesn't use it the weld area will probably rust. Passivating gel is > very acid and cleans the stainless back so that the chrome oxide can > reform and hence the metal is passive and will not react to rust. > Stainless steel tanks sometimes are not passivated inside because it > would require dipping in a bath of passivating fluid and then flushing > and then folks are dissapointed when the seams rust and fail. > Regards, > Ted > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats- unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > SPONSORED LINKS > British columbia canada Vancouver island Yacht > > --------------------------------- > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > > Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > > --------------------------------- > > > > > > --------------------------------- > Yahoo! Mail > Use Photomail to share photos without annoying attachments. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > | 10547|10528|2006-02-21 11:39:56|Michael Casling|Re: BS 26'|It is not in my Maori dictionary. If they are of NZ OZZ or British persuasion it is probably a play on the word wanker, which is also not in the polite dictionaries. Michael ----- Original Message ----- From: Puck III To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, February 20, 2006 2:34 PM Subject: [origamiboats] Re: BS 26' What's the meaning of that name ?? Polynesian probably ?? you tell me :-) OB --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "sae140" wrote: > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III" wrote: > > > > http://www.wangka.be/ is Rob's Dealer fine website. > > The Wangka.be are real fine builders and people . > > Perhaps not the best choice of name for a company wanting > to be taken seriously ? > > Colin > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com SPONSORED LINKS British columbia canada Vancouver island Yacht ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS a.. Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web. b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 10549|10528|2006-02-21 17:58:59|Puck III|Re: BS 26'|Hi Michael , I have no Maori dictionary either :-) Rob Denney's Belgian Dealer , are just fine builders and fine Belgian people and they choose to buy their plans and build moulds and the first harryproa's "Tornado and or HobieCat Chasser" over here. I think their decision not to have a stand at this years boatshow was a wise decision . Afther the Ghent boatshow , we now have the Hiswa in Amsterdam ! Needles to say , the OCC guys will have a large outlet . Today people to ofthen keep their precious money , and rent a boat , instead of buying one . As stated earlyer , boatbusiness is a business . A boat became a product . Personaly I only love good proven products , they are there to stay for a long long time :-)Mono or Multi and in any material:-) especialy in Origami , since I became a Fan ! Long time relationships based on mutual appreciation , but also based on a real knowledge how to conduct safe boatbusiness , sure is a better guarantee than a lot of salestalk , I am very sceptic about . Only time really shows is a boat is a wise investment for any builder , a private selfbuilder or a professional. Hope you had a look at the Aloa 34 pics ,I posted for Ted, build in the seventhies , but classic and still nice to look at today , at least in my modest opinion . I realy hope the BS 26' becomes a real HIT , winning and staying ahead of anybody is important !! I really believe a professional architect or proven designer is the best investment in any boat , or boatbusiness :-) The best , fine knowledge is available in this international interesting and active Group . Lets keep it that way , and work in a spirit of positive collaboration , for the benefit of all members . Cheers Old Ben ============================================ From: Michael Casling Date: Tue Feb 21, 2006 5:38 pm Subject: Re: [origamiboats] Re: BS 26' caslingm Offline Send Email Invite to Yahoo! 360º It is not in my Maori dictionary. If they are of NZ OZZ or British persuasion it is probably a play on the word wanker, which is also not in the polite dictionaries. Michael ----- Original Message ----- From: Puck III To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, February 20, 2006 2:34 PM Subject: [origamiboats] Re: BS 26' What's the meaning of that name ?? Polynesian probably ?? you tell me :-) OB --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "sae140" wrote: > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III" wrote: > > > > http://www.wangka.be/ is Rob's Dealer fine website. > > The Wangka.be are real fine builders and people . > > Perhaps not the best choice of name for a company wanting > to be taken seriously ? > > Colin =========================== --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III" wrote: > > Hi All ,hi Tom ,hi Ted,hi Len please find here under a repost from > interesting private mail regarding the EU certification Topic . > The size or type or country of origin of the boat is irrelevant. > > A direct Link to the new pics I posted under Ben's Stuff in > Origmiboats2 Files is : > http://tinyurl.com/8ggtq > Rob's Dealer - BioDiesel.jpg > Making money Today with the same good designed and build boat :-) > --------------- > http://www.wangka.be/ is Rob's Dealer fine website. > The Wangka.be are real fine builders and people . > The pic with the Swift Solo is a 2005 Pic > The pics where you See OCC.be with a SMILE is a 2006 Pic > The Aloa27 boats still used today are exactly the same > designed and build as in the 25 year old order form :-) > > Was the decision to become Rob's Dealer a wise business decision?? > Time will show ! > Personaly I really believe you take NO RISKS in business. > Professionals in the Charter business know that all to well. > Anyone considering a serieproduct a the best price should know > you cannot and may not ignore the major CharterCompanies > as essential buyers and partners to succes. > > Would it be wise for anybody , to buy a proven plan and or > a certified product ?? Everybody is free to test a boat > by renting one for a short or longer period. > I believe we all know a bit about boatdesign and boatbuilding:-) > > We never asked any downpayment for any of our builds since > more than 25 years . > Senegal for Europeans [with Casablance Cuba under > serious consideration as another testsbase for North Americans] > will give any potential builder or buyer the possibility to test > a good well equiped boat for himself with wife and kids or with > sailing friends. > > Are the pics and comments worth considering? > This is a nice International and active Group. > I sure allways love to receive any comment ,feedback > or advise , in this Group or Privately . > > Cheers !! > Old Ben > > PS: if you are in for a good laugh and a smile look at the latest > pics and their most funny Links given in those pics in : > http://www.buildingyourboat.com/tiki-browse_gallery.php?galleryId=6 > my personal favorite is the GGPLF-COMBO , the latest for now, > a Solar Powered Motion Activated most handy tool on any boat :-) > As allways my Scotsh plays a major role :-) > ================================== > Hi Charles , the international show in Ghent Belgium continues > until next sunday [ included ] > > Yesterday people from or Belgian Ministery came for a control to see > if > EU certification papers where present . > The Belgian importer from a real nice French designed and build > light trailorsailor , that did not jet received his French > certification > was obliged to accept 3 large posts , sealed very visible on the > boats hull, > that this boat could not be presented for Sale . > > Just imagine the negative publicity . > > Afther the Gent show , they have allready reserved and payed for > the Amsterdam Show , where the same will happen to them. > > I met Belgian representatives of US and Canadian products. > The boat , the stand , the EU certification was payd for by the > Builders > in the first place . > > As I explained earlyer , I would not depart from my precious money > under any condition , that hold any risk . > > Tomorow I have a meeting with some of my more than 25 year > long dealers . They take no risks either . > > Please give me 10 more days , before giving you a worthy > opinion , what the market demand is . > > Time is on your hand , everybody has stock and wants to sell !! > > My only advise for now . > NO RISKS and DO NOT HURRY !!!!! > > Please do not believe in false promisses , all I can do is inform > you with daily reality . > > Best regards > > OB > > > >From: charles > >To: ben Azo > >Subject: RE: BBB > >Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2006 23:00:09 +0100 (CET) > > > >Hi OB, > > I hope you're not too busy after the Belgian Boat Show; if you > are, just answer me if it's possible or not to help me in the > purchase/import of the NorseBoat. > > > > Did you see small interesting trailerable light sail-boats during > this Show? > > > > I send you the quote Kevin Jeffrey (Norseboat builder) sent me; > the 2005 prices (boat and options) he'll give me, make a discount > (2006 prices/2005 prices difference) of xxxx usd (boat) + xxx usd > (options I choose) = xxxx usd; and xx% dicount as a future french > agent in my area. So a total of around x000 usd. > > > > I'll wait for your answer about a professional who could be soon > interested in helping me to import/purchase the boat. > > Perhaps they could only do the import-work : then I'ld do the > purchase and shipping with Kevin and they'ld do the import work > (custom+VAT) when the boat arrives in Antwerpen (or in a french port > if possible); I'ld pick up the boat when custom + VAT paid and > professional work paid, upon my trailer behind my car. > > > > Do you know which is the VAT and which are the custom taxes for > this boat in Belgium? > > Is it true that one can import a boat from Canada (or USA...) in > any European country, paying taxes + VAT in this country even if less > expensive, and after be free to sail in France (without having to pay > the VAT difference if it's more expensive in France) ? > > > > Thank you in advance for keeping contact. > > Best, Charles. > > > > > > > >ben Azo a écrit : > > Hi Charles , sorry for the late reply but things are a bit hectic > here . > > > >I join a 1980 order copy with OCC in attachment for you to see the > way I > >deal > >since more than 25 years :-) secure prime bank insured > guarantee=less risk > >:-) > >http://www.occyachting.com/ is the customer's website today > >we became real friends over the years , more than 200 boats > permanently > >in use...... they sure know how , and with who to do good business . > > > >http://www.buildingyourboat.com/tiki-browse_gallery.php?galleryId=6 > >2500 visits since 11jan 2006 > >http://www.buildingyourboat.com/tiki-browse_gallery.php?galleryId=4 > >4000 visits since 15dec 2005 > >------- > >6500 visitors will show you need a lot of visitors to do business . > > > >Short : Boatbusiness can be real funn and real proffitable if > handeled well > >. > > > >The professionals will be very pleased to meet me at the boatshow , > >they are always happy to do business . > >The professionals usualy consult me before entering a new market > segment. > >They always want to bring a new product for wish there is a demand . > >That is good & smart boatbusiness . > > > >Sorry to say Charles , I am really not impressed with the 8 > emailadresses > >and with the deal the Canadians proposed to you . > >I think you must separate business and pleasure totaly . > >Do not follow your hart or love...rather good sence and brains . > >I hope this direct language is not offensive to you . > > > >A free Skype telephone conference could come in handy > >ben_azo is my Skype name , as usual :-) > > > >Keep me posted , I will tell you the professionals respons during or > >afther the Gent BoatShow. > > > >Best OB > | 10550|10519|2006-02-21 18:08:36|brentswain38|Re: clean air|I bought a norco mask without the filtres and hooked it op to a couple of 3/4 inch plastic fitings and hoses to take it behind my back where they hooked into a T fitting and 24 feet of 1 1/8th inch plastic sump drain hose, price $7.95. It is easier to suck air thru 24 feet of plastic hose than it is to suck thru any filtre , it won't plug up and the air from 24 feet away is guaranteed clean especially if it is lead outside , upwind in a strong wind. I trust this arrangement far more than any filtre. Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "prairiemaidca" wrote: > > Hi All; I too have been using the 3m system with what we call the pink > cheeks. I've used this system from the start. The mask had to be > replaced do to the soft rubber starting to break down do to skin oils > but other than the replacement filters it works well. I don't think > I'd go so far as using this equipment for the ballasting of the hull. > I bought an extra long hose for my scuba regulator and breathed bottled > air for that ugly procedure.. For those working with Gal. welding and > for the stainless things(grind and weld) some sort of protection is > mandatory for good health. Even regular welding in confined space you > should protect yourself. Martin.. > | 10551|10526|2006-02-21 18:18:45|brentswain38|Re: Trim Tab Mountings|You have it right. I leave about a half inch of balance ahead of the half inch sch 40 pipe and use 1 inch sch 40 pipe for the pintles. You can put thin plastic bushings in the top and bottom 1 inch pipe ,altho one boat sailed from BC to New Zealand and back with the half inch pipe rattling loosely inside the one inch, no problem. It steered perfectly.The most common cause of problems with self steering is parts that are too tight. All parts on a self steering should rattle loosely.Better loose than to tight. I usually leave the bushing out of the middle one ,as puting one there will require all three to line up perfectly. If you weld an eye on the top of the trimtab to tie a line on , you can lift it, spring the bottom over and drop it out. A hose clamp on the shaft stops it from lifting when you don't want it to.You should lift it out and bend the pipe until the centre one is centred in the pintle. One of my 36v footers encountered 100 knots of wind last summer comming home from Hawaii. The self steering handled her like she was on rails , dead downwind. The skipper didn't have time to put a drogue out Brent. --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "edward_stoneuk" wrote: > > Hi all, > Checking out the drawings and photos of trim tabs most seem to have > their axis of revolution as centre of the 1/2" pipe that runs through > the tab. The drawing shows pipe gudgeons welded to the rudder a bit > closer as if the tab's axis was at or infront of the tab as it is with > the rudder. In some photos it looks difficult to remove the tab > without lifting it, springing out the bottom pintle then dropping it > down past the middle gudgeon. I am just about to fit mine and would > be very grateful for any advice. > Regards, > Ted > | 10552|9840|2006-02-21 23:06:03|tom|Re: BS 26|Hello Old Ben I must be a little slow, missed the question. Anyway not sure if Aaron is looking for the plans or who actualy designed the original? EU certification Im not to conserned about I have no intensions of setting up a professional outlet. After I register my 26 I could sell it with no problem, I have not found any rules stating that I have to keep it for a period of time. Tom ----- Original Message ----- From: "Puck III" To: Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2006 8:26 AM Subject: [origamiboats] Re: BS 26 > Hi All , hi Ted , Aaron sure did not got his answer when he > asked :Where did you guys get the design for the BS26 ? > > Tom,you may have been consulted by a BS 26'builder, to provide some > design and lay out advise ! I am just guessing , cause I cant really > understand all the interest the BS 26' is receiving . > Just fill us in , I am so curious . > > I posted 2 pics for you in Origamiboats2 in the first PhotoAlbum : > " Aloa 34' same build as the 27'build still used today :-) " there , > so you can see a nice decklayout and a classic cockpit , > ideal in combination with the interior steering . > > Regarding many construction details ,including how to build > a real nice interior , I think Marcel Demers posts have > to be regarded as a good guide for you while you work out > your interior plan . > > I hope the Link to : > http://www.tumbleweedhouses.com/houses.htm# > was usefull to you , Marcel sure can give you some more > good tricks and suggestions . > > Tom , do not forget you need to provide EU certification > documents , if you consider setting up a professional outlet:-) > > Or am I wrong ? > Regards > Old Ben > =================================== > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "edward_stoneuk" > wrote: >> >> Aaron, >> Yes I guess I am talking about MIG or perhaps stick welding of >> tanks. I used stick welding on the handrails and there is quite a >> bit of heat affected area. >> Regards, >> Ted > =================================== > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Aaron Williams > wrote: >> >> I have heard of the gel used before just never used it myself. Just > have Tig experence with thin walled SS pipe welding with full purge > on the inside Never had a weld rust before but I know that if you > weld SS to hot and move to slow you can burn up the crome. >> Aaron >> Where did you guys get the design for the BS26 ? >> >> >> edward_stoneuk wrote: >> Aaron, Tom, >> I use passivating gel areound the weld heat affected area so that > the >> chrome oxide layer reforms to protect the metal from rusting. If > one >> doesn't use it the weld area will probably rust. Passivating gel > is >> very acid and cleans the stainless back so that the chrome oxide > can >> reform and hence the metal is passive and will not react to rust. >> Stainless steel tanks sometimes are not passivated inside because > it >> would require dipping in a bath of passivating fluid and then > flushing >> and then folks are dissapointed when the seams rust and fail. >> Regards, >> Ted >> >> >> >> >> >> >> To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com >> To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats- > unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com >> >> >> >> SPONSORED LINKS >> British columbia canada Vancouver island Yacht >> >> --------------------------------- >> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS >> >> >> Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web. >> >> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >> origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com >> >> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > Service. >> >> >> --------------------------------- >> >> >> >> >> >> --------------------------------- >> Yahoo! Mail >> Use Photomail to share photos without annoying attachments. >> >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >> > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > | 10553|9840|2006-02-21 23:22:28|Aaron Williams|Re: BS 26|I am not sure what I want yet, just more info but first I need to read more previous post. tom wrote: Hello Old Ben I must be a little slow, missed the question. Anyway not sure if Aaron is looking for the plans or who actualy designed the original? EU certification Im not to conserned about I have no intensions of setting up a professional outlet. After I register my 26 I could sell it with no problem, I have not found any rules stating that I have to keep it for a period of time. Tom ----- Original Message ----- From: "Puck III" To: Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2006 8:26 AM Subject: [origamiboats] Re: BS 26 > Hi All , hi Ted , Aaron sure did not got his answer when he > asked :Where did you guys get the design for the BS26 ? > > Tom,you may have been consulted by a BS 26'builder, to provide some > design and lay out advise ! I am just guessing , cause I cant really > understand all the interest the BS 26' is receiving . > Just fill us in , I am so curious . > > I posted 2 pics for you in Origamiboats2 in the first PhotoAlbum : > " Aloa 34' same build as the 27'build still used today :-) " there , > so you can see a nice decklayout and a classic cockpit , > ideal in combination with the interior steering . > > Regarding many construction details ,including how to build > a real nice interior , I think Marcel Demers posts have > to be regarded as a good guide for you while you work out > your interior plan . > > I hope the Link to : > http://www.tumbleweedhouses.com/houses.htm# > was usefull to you , Marcel sure can give you some more > good tricks and suggestions . > > Tom , do not forget you need to provide EU certification > documents , if you consider setting up a professional outlet:-) > > Or am I wrong ? > Regards > Old Ben > =================================== > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "edward_stoneuk" > wrote: >> >> Aaron, >> Yes I guess I am talking about MIG or perhaps stick welding of >> tanks. I used stick welding on the handrails and there is quite a >> bit of heat affected area. >> Regards, >> Ted > =================================== > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Aaron Williams > wrote: >> >> I have heard of the gel used before just never used it myself. Just > have Tig experence with thin walled SS pipe welding with full purge > on the inside Never had a weld rust before but I know that if you > weld SS to hot and move to slow you can burn up the crome. >> Aaron >> Where did you guys get the design for the BS26 ? >> >> >> edward_stoneuk wrote: >> Aaron, Tom, >> I use passivating gel areound the weld heat affected area so that > the >> chrome oxide layer reforms to protect the metal from rusting. If > one >> doesn't use it the weld area will probably rust. Passivating gel > is >> very acid and cleans the stainless back so that the chrome oxide > can >> reform and hence the metal is passive and will not react to rust. >> Stainless steel tanks sometimes are not passivated inside because > it >> would require dipping in a bath of passivating fluid and then > flushing >> and then folks are dissapointed when the seams rust and fail. >> Regards, >> Ted >> >> >> >> >> >> >> To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com >> To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats- > unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com >> >> >> >> SPONSORED LINKS >> British columbia canada Vancouver island Yacht >> >> --------------------------------- >> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS >> >> >> Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web. >> >> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >> origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com >> >> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > Service. >> >> >> --------------------------------- >> >> >> >> >> >> --------------------------------- >> Yahoo! Mail >> Use Photomail to share photos without annoying attachments. >> >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >> > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com SPONSORED LINKS British columbia canada Vancouver island Yacht --------------------------------- YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. --------------------------------- --------------------------------- Yahoo! Mail Use Photomail to share photos without annoying attachments. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 10554|10526|2006-02-22 11:45:44|edward_stoneuk|Re: Trim Tab Mountings|Thanks Brent, Is the purpose of the plastic bushing to avoid contact between disimilar metals or top stop the rattling noise? Small boats that I have seen often use stainless to stainless rudder hinges. Regards, Ted| 10555|10526|2006-02-22 14:57:48|brentswain38|Re: Trim Tab Mountings|The bushings ( made from beach bottle material) are just to stop the rattling and reduce friction. They are really not all that neccessary. Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "edward_stoneuk" wrote: > > Thanks Brent, > > Is the purpose of the plastic bushing to avoid contact between > disimilar metals or top stop the rattling noise? Small boats that I > have seen often use stainless to stainless rudder hinges. > > Regards, > Ted > | 10556|8355|2006-02-22 15:02:33|brentswain38|Lining the hull|A friend had a boat interior builder look at his boat. He was told that the entire enterior had to be first lined with 30 sheets of 1/4 inch plywood, a pile 7 inches deep weighing 700 lbs and costing over $300, not counting the time to put it in.That is absolute bullshit.One should first build the interior , hanging it off bulheads which are bolted to tabs. Only after the interior is in should one cover any remaining foam , and cover it only where it is showing.There is no need to cover anything inside lockers. I've been piling everything from canned goods to scuba gear on bare foam for 30 years with no problems.If yo feel you must cover it, plywood pieces can be dropped into lockers at a later date. Brent| 10557|10403|2006-02-22 18:53:46|..|Zincs: How much is enough??|Hi Martin, The number of anodes needed depends on the wetted surface area of the hull, using the main dimensions of the hull calculate the area by the formula waterline length,breadth and mean loaded draft. calculate area by the formula LWLx(breath+draft) Anodes for one years full protection wetted surface area stud fixed anodes up to 300 sq ft 2 4 KG 201 - 600 4 4 kg 601- 900 6 4 kg The position of fixing from stern for 2 anodes WL divide by 3 The anodes must be fixed to a full welded stud, do NOT paint anode. I must point out that metal corrosion and its prevention is very complex subject,I am not specialist in this area,the above is what I have researched for my own and friends knowledge. There are other types of corrosion particularly where SS has been used under the waterline and also the fitting of props on SS shafts, it is not the magic corrosion resistant metal. Geoff Cheshire England Hi All: I guess this is a question directed to those that have a swain 36 that has been in the salt for awhile. I've attached a couple of zincs to Prairie Maids hull but I'm wondering just how much zinc should be on a 36 to give her reasonable protection? Martin Forster [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]| 10558|10558|2006-02-23 14:37:49|Jim Ragsdale|deck hull joint|I saw on AlexÂ’s video that yaÂ’ll dropped the stiffeners ½” for the hull skin. What is the reason for that? I would think you would want to tie in your stiffening structure to the hull structure. Thanks, Jim [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]| 10559|10526|2006-02-23 15:05:52|brentswain38|Re: Trim Tab Mountings|Avoiding contact is ot a bad Idea, altho that would require that the top 1'2'ssloop be insulated from the shaft with a piece of innertube betweeen it and the shaft, not a hard thing to do. Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "brentswain38" wrote: > > The bushings ( made from beach bottle material) are just to stop the > rattling and reduce friction. They are really not all that neccessary. > Brent > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "edward_stoneuk" > wrote: > > > > Thanks Brent, > > > > Is the purpose of the plastic bushing to avoid contact between > > disimilar metals or top stop the rattling noise? Small boats that I > > have seen often use stainless to stainless rudder hinges. > > > > Regards, > > Ted > > > | 10560|10558|2006-02-23 20:04:11|tom|Re: deck hull joint|Hello Jim I will take a stab at youre question if I understand it right. I think youre refering to the deck beams not making contact to the hull sides. I just put my decking on and for strength it defenently not needed, it is amazing how strong the hull is with just the deck on. anyway if you did make the deck beams contact the sides it would distort the hull sides on every weld and possably create a hard spot and be a potential crack so then you leave them a little short so you can clean and paint the deck beam ends. Does this make sense to you ? Tom ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Ragsdale" To: Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2006 11:37 AM Subject: [origamiboats] deck hull joint I saw on Alex's video that ya'll dropped the stiffeners ½" for the hull skin. What is the reason for that? I would think you would want to tie in your stiffening structure to the hull structure. Thanks, Jim [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links | 10561|10558|2006-02-23 20:46:36|brentswain38|Re: deck hull joint|I have no idea what you are talking about. Could you clarify? Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Jim Ragsdale" wrote: > > I saw on Alex's video that ya'll dropped the stiffeners ½" for the hull > skin. What is the reason for that? I would think you would want to tie in > your stiffening structure to the hull structure. > > > > > > Thanks, > > Jim > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > | 10562|10562|2006-02-23 21:36:00|tom|Keels|Hello All I have ben thinking of putting a single keel on my 26 but Im not 100% desided yet, anyway I would like to know if theres any differance beating to weather in chop between a single or twins? Any info would be appriciated Tom [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]| 10564|8355|2006-02-24 08:55:49|Carl Volkwein|Re: Lining the hull|Hi Brent, What about enclosing the foam in fiberglass, then jelcoating the whole thing? Carl from WV. brentswain38 wrote: A friend had a boat interior builder look at his boat. He was told that the entire enterior had to be first lined with 30 sheets of 1/4 inch plywood, a pile 7 inches deep weighing 700 lbs and costing over $300, not counting the time to put it in.That is absolute bullshit.One should first build the interior , hanging it off bulheads which are bolted to tabs. Only after the interior is in should one cover any remaining foam , and cover it only where it is showing.There is no need to cover anything inside lockers. I've been piling everything from canned goods to scuba gear on bare foam for 30 years with no problems.If yo feel you must cover it, plywood pieces can be dropped into lockers at a later date. Brent To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com SPONSORED LINKS British columbia canada Vancouver island Yacht --------------------------------- YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. --------------------------------- --------------------------------- What are the most popular cars? Find out at Yahoo! Autos [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]| 10565|8355|2006-02-24 16:59:40|brentswain38|Re: Lining the hull|That would be a huge amount of work, expense and weight for absolutely nothing. Brent--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Carl Volkwein wrote: > > Hi Brent, > > What about enclosing the foam in fiberglass, then jelcoating the whole thing? > Carl from WV. > > brentswain38 wrote: > A friend had a boat interior builder look at his boat. He was told that > the entire enterior had to be first lined with 30 sheets of 1/4 inch > plywood, a pile 7 inches deep weighing 700 lbs and costing over $300, > not counting the time to put it in.That is absolute bullshit.One should > first build the interior , hanging it off bulheads which are bolted to > tabs. Only after the interior is in should one cover any remaining > foam , and cover it only where it is showing.There is no need to cover > anything inside lockers. I've been piling everything from canned goods > to scuba gear on bare foam for 30 years with no problems.If yo feel you > must cover it, plywood pieces can be dropped into lockers at a later > date. > Brent > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats- unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > SPONSORED LINKS > British columbia canada Vancouver island Yacht > > --------------------------------- > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > > Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > > --------------------------------- > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > What are the most popular cars? Find out at Yahoo! Autos > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > | 10566|10562|2006-02-24 17:02:43|brentswain38|Re: Keels|There is very little difference if any. Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "tom" wrote: > > Hello All > I have ben thinking of putting a single keel on my 26 but Im not 100% desided yet, anyway I would like to know if theres any differance beating to weather in chop between a single or twins? > Any info would be appriciated > Tom > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > | 10567|10558|2006-02-24 17:03:18|brentswain38|Re: deck hull joint|Right on. The beams just increase the overall stiffness of the decks. There is no advantage to connectin ghtem to the hull, altho that would be a lot more work for nothing.. Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "tom" wrote: > > Hello Jim > I will take a stab at youre question if I understand it right. > I think youre refering to the deck beams not making contact to the hull > sides. I just put my decking on and for strength it defenently not needed, > it is amazing how strong the hull is with just the deck on. anyway if you > did make the deck beams contact the sides it would distort the hull sides on > every weld and possably create a hard spot and be a potential crack so then > you leave them a little short so you can clean and paint the deck beam ends. > Does this make sense to you ? > Tom > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jim Ragsdale" > To: > Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2006 11:37 AM > Subject: [origamiboats] deck hull joint > > > I saw on Alex's video that ya'll dropped the stiffeners ½" for the hull > skin. What is the reason for that? I would think you would want to tie in > your stiffening structure to the hull structure. > > > > > > Thanks, > > Jim > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Yahoo! Groups Links > | 10568|8355|2006-02-24 17:49:38|bilgekeeldave|Re: Lining the hull|I have a 24 year old Brent Swain 31, 'Quaranta y Dos', It has unpainted spray foam insulation. I have had no problems with it. The urethane foam is closed cell, it does not absorb water. It does breakdown some in sunlight. I just painted over it with latex paint, where it was exposed to sunlight and have had no other problems. Dave --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "brentswain38" wrote: > > That would be a huge amount of work, expense and weight for > absolutely nothing. > Brent--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Carl Volkwein > wrote: > > > > Hi Brent, > > > > What about enclosing the foam in fiberglass, then jelcoating > the whole thing? > > Carl from WV. > > > > brentswain38 wrote: > > A friend had a boat interior builder look at his boat. He was > told that > > the entire enterior had to be first lined with 30 sheets of 1/4 > inch > > plywood, a pile 7 inches deep weighing 700 lbs and costing over > $300, > > not counting the time to put it in.That is absolute bullshit.One > should > > first build the interior , hanging it off bulheads which are bolted > to > > tabs. Only after the interior is in should one cover any remaining > > foam , and cover it only where it is showing.There is no need to > cover > > anything inside lockers. I've been piling everything from canned > goods > > to scuba gear on bare foam for 30 years with no problems.If yo feel > you > > must cover it, plywood pieces can be dropped into lockers at a > later > > date. > > Brent > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats- > unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > SPONSORED LINKS > > British columbia canada Vancouver island Yacht > > > > --------------------------------- > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > > > > > Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web. > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > Service. > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > > > What are the most popular cars? Find out at Yahoo! Autos > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > | 10569|8355|2006-02-24 18:38:52|Courtney Thomas|Re: Lining the hull|Any details on where you bought it and how you applied it ? Thank you, Courtney bilgekeeldave wrote: > I have a 24 year old Brent Swain 31, 'Quaranta y Dos', It has > unpainted spray foam insulation. I have had no problems with it. The > urethane foam is closed cell, it does not absorb water. It does > breakdown some in sunlight. I just painted over it with latex paint, > where it was exposed to sunlight and have had no other problems. > > Dave > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "brentswain38" > wrote: > >> That would be a huge amount of work, expense and weight for >>absolutely nothing. >>Brent--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Carl Volkwein >> wrote: >> >>>Hi Brent, >>> >>> What about enclosing the foam in fiberglass, then > > jelcoating > >>the whole thing? >> >>> Carl from WV. >>> >>>brentswain38 wrote: >>> A friend had a boat interior builder look at his boat. He was >> >>told that >> >>>the entire enterior had to be first lined with 30 sheets of 1/4 >> >>inch >> >>>plywood, a pile 7 inches deep weighing 700 lbs and costing over >> >>$300, >> >>>not counting the time to put it in.That is absolute bullshit.One >> >>should >> >>>first build the interior , hanging it off bulheads which are > > bolted > >>to >> >>>tabs. Only after the interior is in should one cover any > > remaining > >>>foam , and cover it only where it is showing.There is no need to >> >>cover >> >>>anything inside lockers. I've been piling everything from canned >> >>goods >> >>>to scuba gear on bare foam for 30 years with no problems.If yo > > feel > >>you >> >>>must cover it, plywood pieces can be dropped into lockers at a >> >>later >> >>>date. >>>Brent >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com >>>To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats- >> >>unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com >> >>> >>> >>> SPONSORED LINKS >>> British columbia canada Vancouver island Yacht >>> >>>--------------------------------- >>> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS >>> >>> >>> Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web. >>> >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >>> origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com >>> >>> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of >> >>Service. >> >>> >>>--------------------------------- >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>--------------------------------- >>> >>> What are the most popular cars? Find out at Yahoo! Autos >>> >>>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >>> >> > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > | 10570|8355|2006-02-24 22:06:02|kingsknight4life|Re: Lining the hull|Courtney Check the yellow pages for spray foam applicators. Insulpro is used by a lot of builders here in BC. This is a nasty job and probabl best left to the pro's. Rowland --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Courtney Thomas wrote: > > Any details on where you bought it and how you applied it ? > > Thank you, > Courtney > > > > > bilgekeeldave wrote: > > I have a 24 year old Brent Swain 31, 'Quaranta y Dos', It has > > unpainted spray foam insulation. I have had no problems with it. ... > > Dave > > | 10571|8355|2006-02-25 09:14:59|Courtney Thomas|Re: Lining the hull|I'm in Nova Scotia and am unaware of any such service in my area. Thank you, Courtney kingsknight4life wrote: > Courtney > Check the yellow pages for spray foam applicators. Insulpro is used by > a lot of builders here in BC. This is a nasty job and probabl best > left to the pro's. > Rowland > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Courtney Thomas > wrote: > >>Any details on where you bought it and how you applied it ? >> >>Thank you, >>Courtney >> >> >> >> >>bilgekeeldave wrote: >> >>>I have a 24 year old Brent Swain 31, 'Quaranta y Dos', It has >>>unpainted spray foam insulation. I have had no problems with > > it. ... > >>>Dave >>> > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > | 10572|10572|2006-02-25 10:20:34|prairiemaidca|foam insulation kits|Hi All: There are still a few outfits selling the foam kits for those that don't have easy access to the commercial truck units. Google: tiger foam, or R H H foam systems inc. for a couple of ideas. Martin (Prairie Maid)| 10573|8355|2006-02-25 11:39:59|cirejay|Re: Lining the hull|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Courtney Thomas wrote: > > I'm in Nova Scotia and am unaware of any such service in my area. > For DIY, try http://www.tigerfoam.com eric S/V Nebaras| 10574|10574|2006-02-25 13:15:54|Puck III|4 D Modeling tool|An interesting simple modelingtool for kids , adults and teachers alike sure can be helpfull if you want to trye out some Origami or other boatbuilding techniques ! See : http://www.zometool.com/ a special brew Ale , for the beer lovers can help : http://tinyurl.com/grwlx Cheers Old Ben| 10575|10575|2006-02-25 15:31:55|jericoera|DIY insulatation breakthrough?|Great DIY Insulation breakthrough!!! I found a link on Thomas Colvin's website to www.deltacoat.com I clicked on marine coatings and found a remarkable product that is suppose to be much less costly than spray foam, it is non toxic and waterbased and applies like paint. It also adds less weight to the boat and makes hull inspections easier. Yep, some new idea on insulating boats. Its apparently used all over the marine industry on yachts and ships already. Anybody that can verify that this stuff will work let me know. I am pretty pumped about using it if it does. Simple and easy and no foam carving! Carl mcIntosh| 10576|8355|2006-02-25 15:38:54|Alex Christie|Re: Lining the hull|You could find them through commercial fishboat builders and repairers -- they'd always be foaming fish holds, I imagine. Alex I'm in Nova Scotia and am unaware of any such service in my area. Thank you, Courtney [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]| 10577|10575|2006-02-25 17:38:33|Aaron Williams|Re: DIY insulatation breakthrough?|Here was something I found a while back.Looked promising http://www.industrial-nanotech.com/nansulate.htm jericoera wrote: Great DIY Insulation breakthrough!!! I found a link on Thomas Colvin's website to www.deltacoat.com I clicked on marine coatings and found a remarkable product that is suppose to be much less costly than spray foam, it is non toxic and waterbased and applies like paint. It also adds less weight to the boat and makes hull inspections easier. Yep, some new idea on insulating boats. Its apparently used all over the marine industry on yachts and ships already. Anybody that can verify that this stuff will work let me know. I am pretty pumped about using it if it does. Simple and easy and no foam carving! Carl mcIntosh To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com SPONSORED LINKS British columbia canada Vancouver island Yacht --------------------------------- YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. --------------------------------- --------------------------------- Brings words and photos together (easily) with PhotoMail - it's free and works with Yahoo! Mail. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]| 10578|10575|2006-02-25 18:27:03|cirejay|Re: DIY insulatation breakthrough?|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "jericoera" wrote: > > Great DIY Insulation breakthrough!!! > I found a link on Thomas Colvin's website to www.deltacoat.com > > I clicked on marine coatings and found a remarkable product that is > suppose to be much less costly than spray foam, it is non toxic and > waterbased and applies like paint. > > It also adds less weight to the boat and makes hull inspections > easier. Yep, some new idea on insulating boats. Its apparently used > all over the marine industry on yachts and ships already. > > Anybody that can verify that this stuff will work let me know. >I am pretty pumped about using it if it does. I'll say! > Simple and easy and no foam carving! Carl, me thinks cabin fever is setting in :-). Step back and take a deep breath and then read, word for word, the tech info on this product. Notice the "*" after the R-11 rating of 40 mils. The asterisk is there because R-11 for 40 mils is just not possible (heck, vac-panels only get about R-30 for an inch). This stuff works almost exclusively by reflectivity. Conductivity, which is what we are really concerned about is pretty much zilch, nada, zero. Don't get me wrong, reflectivity is helpful but it's just a small, part of the equation. A while back, some one came up with another website totting Nano technology for the same problem and when it was checked out, they were more interested in signing up distributors than selling product. I'm not saying this is the same thing but it's sure no silver bullet. eric S/V Nebaras| 10579|10575|2006-02-25 18:58:38|kendall|Re: DIY insulatation breakthrough?|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Aaron Williams wrote: > > Here was something I found a while back.Looked promising > > http://www.industrial-nanotech.com/nansulate.htm > > jericoera wrote: > Great DIY Insulation breakthrough!!! > > I found a link on Thomas Colvin's website to www.deltacoat.com > > I clicked on marine coatings and found a remarkable product that is > suppose to be much less costly than spray foam, it is non toxic and > waterbased and applies like paint. > > It also adds less weight to the boat and makes hull inspections > easier. Yep, some new idea on insulating boats. Its apparently used > all over the marine industry on yachts and ships already. > > Anybody that can verify that this stuff will work let me know. I am > pretty pumped about using it if it does. > > Simple and easy and no foam carving! > > Carl mcIntosh > > > Hmmm, not likely, watching the video demonstration, looks as though the coated part is above the uncoated part,leaving an airspace any airspace at all is enough to account for the observed effect, as it is the untreated 'control' piece is pretty close to the boiling point of water,so anything would lower the temperature of the treated part enough to let the water sit there. I can produce the same effect here on the kitchen stove with two identical untreated sheets of metal. a better demo would have been to show the plates fron the side so you could tell where the heat source is located, or show a time lapse video of two pots of water, one treated one not, with timers showing time to boil. don't trust companies that show such obviously tilted demos enough to send them my money. Unless the matrerial is shiny a thin 'paint coat' material is going to have less insulating value than plain air. (site states 4/1000th thickness) If I wanted the thinnest most water-resistant insulation possible I'd go with that shiny bubble wrap stuff, you have the proven shiny radiant heat insulator and the thin trapped air convection loss insulation. Or a layer of closed cell neopreme foam. Use velcro ribbons to secure it to the hull for ease of removal during inspection ore maintenance. My view on a boat is that cabinetry and equipment should be removable for maintenance, if you have to strugle to do what should be routine maintenance, odds are it will be skipped and problems will crop up very soon. Also, if you paint a strip of steel with a fairly thick coat of high solids paint, then heat it up after drying, the paint will burn off leaving the solids in a 'foamy' configuration which when heated from one side will slow heat transfer enough that it will match most 'miracle' insulations If you've ever cut painted steel with a torch you should know what I mean car enamal shows this effect. See if they'll send you a small sample bit to do your own comparison. ken.| 10580|10575|2006-02-25 19:22:34|jericoera|Re: DIY insulatation breakthrough?|I'll look into it. Sooner or later someone will invent something better. Nothing wrong with foam but if there were something better I'd be the first to grab it. I suppose rubberized paint for pool bottoms would be about the same thing as this deltacoat stuff. Carl M :) --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "kendall" wrote: > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Aaron Williams wrote: > > > > Here was something I found a while back.Looked promising > > > > http://www.industrial-nanotech.com/nansulate.htm > > > > jericoera wrote: > > Great DIY Insulation breakthrough!!! > > > > I found a link on Thomas Colvin's website to www.deltacoat.com > > > > I clicked on marine coatings and found a remarkable product that is > > suppose to be much less costly than spray foam, it is non toxic and > > waterbased and applies like paint. > > > > It also adds less weight to the boat and makes hull inspections > > easier. Yep, some new idea on insulating boats. Its apparently used > > all over the marine industry on yachts and ships already. > > > > Anybody that can verify that this stuff will work let me know. I am > > pretty pumped about using it if it does. > > > > Simple and easy and no foam carving! > > > > Carl mcIntosh > > > > > > > > > Hmmm, not likely, watching the video demonstration, looks as though > the coated part is above the uncoated part,leaving an airspace any > airspace at all is enough to account for the observed effect, as it is > the untreated 'control' piece is pretty close to the boiling point of > water,so anything would lower the temperature of the treated part > enough to let the water sit there. I can produce the same effect here > on the kitchen stove with two identical untreated sheets of metal. > > a better demo would have been to show the plates fron the side so you > could tell where the heat source is located, or show a time lapse > video of two pots of water, one treated one not, with timers showing > time to boil. > don't trust companies that show such obviously tilted demos enough to > send them my money. > > Unless the matrerial is shiny a thin 'paint coat' material is going > to have less insulating value than plain air. (site states 4/1000th > thickness) > > If I wanted the thinnest most water-resistant insulation possible I'd > go with that shiny bubble wrap stuff, you have the proven shiny > radiant heat insulator and the thin trapped air convection loss > insulation. Or a layer of closed cell neopreme foam. Use velcro > ribbons to secure it to the hull for ease of removal during inspection > ore maintenance. My view on a boat is that cabinetry and equipment > should be removable for maintenance, if you have to strugle to do what > should be routine maintenance, odds are it will be skipped and > problems will crop up very soon. > > Also, if you paint a strip of steel with a fairly thick coat of high > solids paint, then heat it up after drying, the paint will burn off > leaving the solids in a 'foamy' configuration which when heated from > one side will slow heat transfer enough that it will match most > 'miracle' insulations If you've ever cut painted steel with a torch > you should know what I mean car enamal shows this effect. > > See if they'll send you a small sample bit to do your own comparison. > > ken. > | 10581|10575|2006-02-25 19:45:19|Alex Christie|Re: DIY insulatation breakthrough?|The stuff he refered to might be the same as Insulad, a material made of tiny microballoons that are an entirely different animal from the microballoons we use for fairing hulls with epoxy. The little balls in INSULAD each have a vaccum atmosphere inside, just like a vacuum thermos, where the laws of thermodynamics are different regarding transfer of heat. You either by it premixed into a paint-primer, or throw the balloons in your favourite paint and lay it on. When the paint dries, the balloon pack closely together an form a very tight matrix as they nestle together in a lattice several layers deep. A friend got a chance to go aboard a steel vessel using Insulad below the waterline and said the steel was not cold at all when he felt it, though only a thermometer measuring the diff between water temps and inside hull would tell for sure. Space-age NASA stuff I -- who paid the little people to suck the air out of each ball and seal the hole after with a nanoscopic glass plug melted in place? :-) So, heat doesn't like to go through a vacuum, and someone more learned can tell us exactly why -- less molecules of air in a given space, hence less heat gain and heat loss due to acceleration or deceleration of molecules so transmitting of energy is stymied. Good guess? Brent suggested once that you could use this material in paint in the inside, even on outside if you like, then foam inside when you've got the chance or money. Meanwhile, no sweating and condensation inherent to a non-insulated hull, you could even sail the bare shell around and astound everyone at how fast you finished your boat (no one would know there's nothing inside, hehehehe!). Brent also pointed out that with foam on top of that some day, you'd have a super-insulated vessel. I believe the foam does do one thing the microballoons won't: stop or slow sound. I might be wrong tho. Alex ----- Original Message ----- From: kendall To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, February 25, 2006 3:58 PM Subject: [origamiboats] Re: DIY insulatation breakthrough? --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Aaron Williams wrote: > > Here was something I found a while back.Looked promising > > http://www.industrial-nanotech.com/nansulate.htm > > jericoera wrote: > Great DIY Insulation breakthrough!!! > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 10582|10575|2006-02-25 19:54:40|Courtney Thomas|Re: DIY insulatation breakthrough?|Why won't any coating with microballoons do equally well... regarding insulation ? Thank you, Courtney Alex Christie wrote: > The stuff he refered to might be the same as Insulad, a material made of tiny microballoons that are an entirely different animal from the microballoons we use for fairing hulls with epoxy. The little balls in INSULAD each have a vaccum atmosphere inside, just like a vacuum thermos, where the laws of thermodynamics are different regarding transfer of heat. You either by it premixed into a paint-primer, or throw the balloons in your favourite paint and lay it on. When the paint dries, the balloon pack closely together an form a very tight matrix as they nestle together in a lattice several layers deep. A friend got a chance to go aboard a steel vessel using Insulad below the waterline and said the steel was not cold at all when he felt it, though only a thermometer measuring the diff between water temps and inside hull would tell for sure. Space-age NASA stuff I -- who paid the little people to suck the air out of each ball and seal the hole after with a nanoscopic glass plug melted in place? :-) > > So, heat doesn't like to go through a vacuum, and someone more learned can tell us exactly why -- less molecules of air in a given space, hence less heat gain and heat loss due to acceleration or deceleration of molecules so transmitting of energy is stymied. Good guess? > > Brent suggested once that you could use this material in paint in the inside, even on outside if you like, then foam inside when you've got the chance or money. Meanwhile, no sweating and condensation inherent to a non-insulated hull, you could even sail the bare shell around and astound everyone at how fast you finished your boat (no one would know there's nothing inside, hehehehe!). Brent also pointed out that with foam on top of that some day, you'd have a super-insulated vessel. > > I believe the foam does do one thing the microballoons won't: stop or slow sound. I might be wrong tho. > > Alex > ----- Original Message ----- > From: kendall > To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Saturday, February 25, 2006 3:58 PM > Subject: [origamiboats] Re: DIY insulatation breakthrough? > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Aaron Williams wrote: > > > > Here was something I found a while back.Looked promising > > > > http://www.industrial-nanotech.com/nansulate.htm > > > > jericoera wrote: > > Great DIY Insulation breakthrough!!! > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > | 10583|10575|2006-02-25 20:20:37|Alex and Kim Christie|Re: DIY insulatation breakthrough?|---- Original Message ----- From: Courtney Thomas To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, February 25, 2006 5:00 PM Subject: Re: [origamiboats] Re: DIY insulatation breakthrough? Why won't any coating with microballoons do equally well... regarding insulation ? Alex's reply: No, that would be like insulating with a thin smear of the blow-foam, which is most effective the thicker it is. The vacuum atmosphere within the baloon is the secret. I've got a glass thermos with foam liner that works fairly well, but then I put the same termperature of hot beverage into a vacuum thermos (so, two walls of stainless with nothing but a vacuum atmosphere in it, no foam), and the vacuum thermos is still hot enough to burn your lips some at the end of the day. The glass-foam thermos beverage on the other hand, is a lot cooler at the end of a day, if not downright luke-warm!| 10584|9840|2006-02-25 21:15:08|tazmannusa|BS 26|Hello All I managed to get the cockpit tacked in today, Bent it up on my 4 foot leaf brake, worked ok but my back is sore 12gage is pretty tough to bend by hand. Anyway the seats are level and the well slopes an 1-1/2" to the stern, Had to brake it up in three pieces to make it out of one 4x8 sheet. The seats are 20" wide and the foot well is 26" wide and it is 40" long. The wife and I were setting in it and it seems big enough, could seat four being a little chummey. I posted a couple more pictures in origamiboats2. Does anyone know how to figure what size drains are needed? Im thinking eather 2 2" or 1 3" in the center draining to the transom Tom| 10585|10575|2006-02-25 21:35:33|Jon & Wanda(Tink)|Re: DIY insulatation breakthrough?|The way I see it is the balloons shell and the paint or what ever binder would transfer the hot or cold and a thin layer would do little. There would be more area that transfers then not even if the binder was a min. so the trasfer would go around the void. The same thing happens with spray foam but it is like painting the microballons in till it was the thickness of a hull sprayed with foam. I hope I got that Idea across. Jon --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Alex and Kim Christie wrote: > > ---- Original Message ----- > From: Courtney Thomas > To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Saturday, February 25, 2006 5:00 PM > Subject: Re: [origamiboats] Re: DIY insulatation breakthrough? > > > Why won't any coating with microballoons do equally well... regarding > insulation ? > > > > Alex's reply: > > No, that would be like insulating with a thin smear of the blow- foam, which > is most effective the thicker it is. The vacuum atmosphere within the > baloon is the secret. I've got a glass thermos with foam liner that works > fairly well, but then I put the same termperature of hot beverage into a > vacuum thermos (so, two walls of stainless with nothing but a vacuum > atmosphere in it, no foam), and the vacuum thermos is still hot enough to > burn your lips some at the end of the day. The glass-foam thermos beverage > on the other hand, is a lot cooler at the end of a day, if not downright > luke-warm! > | 10586|9840|2006-02-25 21:41:52|a_admi|Re: BS 26|Hi Tom , nice pics you posted . I wonder why you did not considered building the cockpit sole under a backwards facing angle ? Two holes in the transom [ eventualy fitted with a non return valve ]at each corner will do . In heavy weather the boat will pitch . Building a flat cockpit sole will only increase time to empty the bathtub , just imagine taking a bath there in hot weather :-) Old Ben --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "tazmannusa" wrote: > > Hello All > I managed to get the cockpit tacked in today, Bent it up on my 4 foot > leaf brake, worked ok but my back is sore 12gage is pretty tough to > bend by hand. Anyway the seats are level and the well slopes an 1- 1/2" > to the stern, Had to brake it up in three pieces to make it out of one > 4x8 sheet. The seats are 20" wide and the foot well is 26" wide and it > is 40" long. The wife and I were setting in it and it seems big enough, > could seat four being a little chummey. > I posted a couple more pictures in origamiboats2. > Does anyone know how to figure what size drains are needed? Im > thinking eather 2 2" or 1 3" in the center draining to the transom > Tom > | 10587|9840|2006-02-25 22:47:28|tom|Re: BS 26|Hello and thankyou, I did not want a forward angled sole, The way its set up I eleminated the threw hulls for drains. The sole is high enough from the water line not to worry about return valves. I considerd doing a v shape in the floor for drainage but its a lot easyer to stand on a flat surface. Tom ----- Original Message ----- From: "a_admi" To: Sent: Saturday, February 25, 2006 6:41 PM Subject: [origamiboats] Re: BS 26 > Hi Tom , nice pics you posted . > I wonder why you did not considered building the cockpit sole > under a backwards facing angle ? > Two holes in the transom [ eventualy fitted with a non > return valve ]at each corner will do . > In heavy weather the boat will pitch . > Building a flat cockpit sole will only increase time > to empty the bathtub , just imagine taking a bath there > in hot weather :-) > > Old Ben > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "tazmannusa" wrote: >> >> Hello All >> I managed to get the cockpit tacked in today, Bent it up on my 4 > foot >> leaf brake, worked ok but my back is sore 12gage is pretty tough to >> bend by hand. Anyway the seats are level and the well slopes an 1- > 1/2" >> to the stern, Had to brake it up in three pieces to make it out of > one >> 4x8 sheet. The seats are 20" wide and the foot well is 26" wide and > it >> is 40" long. The wife and I were setting in it and it seems big > enough, >> could seat four being a little chummey. >> I posted a couple more pictures in origamiboats2. >> Does anyone know how to figure what size drains are needed? Im >> thinking eather 2 2" or 1 3" in the center draining to the transom >> Tom >> > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > | 10588|10588|2006-02-25 23:34:47|mickeyolaf|Self Tacking Jibs|I was reading an article the other day by Robert Perry. He was reviewing a German sailboat that came with a self tacking jib for a foresail. He mentioned that if you change a standard rig to self tacking then the mast should be higher to compensate for the loss of the jib overlapping the mast by 30 or 60% (depending on the size of the genoa). Brent, if a person went with a 100% self tacking jib what would you think of an increase in mast hight for the Swain 36 to allow more sail area for a s/t jib? How much height could you safely add without upsetting the stability? Would you have to also go to a double spreader rig?| 10589|9840|2006-02-26 05:06:41|Gerd|Re: BS 26|Great Pics and sweet lines, Tom, and hardly a trace of the rust of ages that is covering some of our other projects!! Keep it up and good speed ;-) Gerd The Yago Project at htpp./www.justmueller.com/boats/| 10590|10574|2006-02-26 15:01:16|..|4 D Modeling tool|How do you use this zometool to model an origami hull or boat building ? where is the 4D or is that a function of a quantity special brew? Geoff An interesting simple modelingtool for kids , adults and teachers alike sure can be helpfull if you want to trye out some Origami or other boatbuilding techniques ! See : http://www.zometool.com/ a special brew Ale , for the beer lovers can help : http://tinyurl.com/grwlx Cheers Old Ben To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com SPONSORED LINKS British columbia canada Vancouver island Yacht _____ YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS * Visit your group "origamiboats " on the web. * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service . _____ --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.859 / Virus Database: 585 - Release Date: 14/02/2005 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.859 / Virus Database: 585 - Release Date: 14/02/2005 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]| 10591|10574|2006-02-26 20:09:36|Puck III|Re: 4 D Modeling tool|I just imagined that if you can model a cone -a developable surface — one that can be (locally) unrolled onto a flat plane without tearing or stretching — if complete, it is necessarily ruled, but the converse is not always true. -Thus the cylinder and cone are developable . -The only minimal surfaces that are ruled are the plane and the helicoid. -an ellipsoid , a spheroid and a taurus added to the cone will model a special kinda origamihull :-) I'l post a pic when I receive the ' lighting Kit ' I'l post the model near my bed , easyer to find the way back in the dark ! The Special Brew is tempting more than one :-) 3 days of Carnaval !!! fine perspectives...... Cheers OB --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, ".." wrote: > > How do you use this zometool to model an origami hull > or boat building ? > where is the 4D or is that a function of a quantity special brew? > Geoff > > > An interesting simple modelingtool for kids , adults > and teachers alike sure can be helpfull if you want > to trye out some Origami or other boatbuilding techniques ! > See : > http://www.zometool.com/ > a special brew Ale , for the beer lovers can help : > http://tinyurl.com/grwlx > > Cheers > Old Ben > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > > SPONSORED LINKS > British > mbia+canada&w2=Vancouver+island&w3=Yacht&c=3&s=62&.sig=Q4lYYtlNW0FQO44 ezC2G3 > Q> columbia canada Vancouver > nada&w2=Vancouver+island&w3=Yacht&c=3&s=62&.sig=TVvK0pZk9dkmygRA0hegNw > > island Yacht > couver+island&w3=Yacht&c=3&s=62&.sig=lCcJSZ2V25esT9G6EcjB6g> > > _____ > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > > > * Visit your group "origamiboats > " on the web. > > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service > . > > > _____ > > > > --- > Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.859 / Virus Database: 585 - Release Date: 14/02/2005 > > > > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.859 / Virus Database: 585 - Release Date: 14/02/2005 > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > | 10592|10592|2006-02-27 14:44:31|richytill|Stormy Weather|Coming out of Howe Sound yesterday afternoon with 18+ knots of wet wind/sleet. A joy be out there. This boat, "My Island" is really stable compared to the lighter racer cruiser types I have owned. I had to wonder as we sailed along with one reef in, who has accounts of how a BS 36 responds to Heavy weather conditions. If anyone has first hand accounts of the behaviour/charecteristics of a BS 36 in such conditions, I am sure some of us would appreciate hearing about it. Thanks, rt| 10593|10593|2006-02-27 16:38:16|blueiceicle|Building Site Found!!|Hello everyone. Happy to say ive found a building site. If all goes well i should be able to have my hull plate on site in 2 weeks. I have a question id like to get out there, in regards to cutting the decks. I planning to take the lines off the plans and cut the decking on the multi table at work. My question is when you follow the plans how well do the decks fit to the hull. As in do you just cut the plate to the plans and pull the hull to the contour of the decks? Ill be adding a extra 1.5" to the inside of the decks to allow for any problems. Also in my over zealous state to start, I cant seem to find what the camber is on the decks? or is everything flat? any info is appreciated. Thanks Jesse| 10594|10593|2006-02-27 17:34:19|tom|Re: Building Site Found!!|Hello Jesse What I did on my 26 for the deck beam camber is mark a sheet with a 16 foot radious witch came out to about 6 inches in 8 foot and bent the beams to that. For the decking I took the measurments from the end view drawing an 1-1/2 inch down from the shear, when you put the decking on you need pipe clamps to pull the hull to deck shape as long as you start square its pretty easy. One thing that makes it easyer is when you lay out youre hull sides is give yourself some center punched scribe lines measured from point of bow both sides. Tom ----- Original Message ----- From: "blueiceicle" To: Sent: Monday, February 27, 2006 1:38 PM Subject: [origamiboats] Building Site Found!! > Hello everyone. > > Happy to say ive found a building site. If all goes well i should be > able to have my hull plate on site in 2 weeks. > I have a question id like to get out there, in regards to cutting the > decks. I planning to take the lines off the plans and cut the decking > on the multi table at work. My question is when you follow the plans > how well do the decks fit to the hull. As in do you just cut the plate > to the plans and pull the hull to the contour of the decks? Ill be > adding a extra 1.5" to the inside of the decks to allow for any > problems. Also in my over zealous state to start, I cant seem to find > what the camber is on the decks? or is everything flat? > > any info is appreciated. > > Thanks Jesse > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > | 10595|8567|2006-02-27 17:42:20|thamesbay|Re: Aluminum Pilot House on Steel boat? How.|Hi, I'm late on this one but from what I remember Alclad made an explosion formed composit strip that effectively welded aluminium to steal , this was used to weld ally superstructures onto RN warships. You can see the same technology used on any stainless thick bottom sauspan in the kitchine. I dunno why but the electrolytic corrosion doesent seam to be an issue , we have had a set of hagland pans sinse the late 70's and they are still going strong. Bob| 10596|8567|2006-02-27 19:05:16|Alex Christie|Re: Aluminum Pilot House on Steel boat? How.|My take on the explosively bonded dissimilar metals is that there is no space for an electrolyte to circulate between the two pieces, therefore electrolysis is not much of an issue. Detacouple is the name of the one product I know of. Google it and see what you find. I believe the secret to using these strips is to avoid using them where water can swill about (ie close the deck), making the join a few inches (6 I seem to recall) higher. Alex ----- Original Message ----- From: thamesbay To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, February 27, 2006 2:42 PM Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Aluminum Pilot House on Steel boat? How. Hi, I'm late on this one but from what I remember Alclad made an explosion formed composit strip that effectively welded aluminium to steal , this was used to weld ally superstructures onto RN warships. You can see the same technology used on any stainless thick bottom sauspan in the kitchine. I dunno why but the electrolytic corrosion doesent seam to be an issue , we have had a set of hagland pans sinse the late 70's and they are still going strong. Bob [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 10597|10597|2006-02-28 08:52:38|Puck III|Noah's Ark Video Link .|--- In boatdesign@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III" wrote: > > Just a repost from a repost :-) , in case you missed the Video ! Could the Ark have been build using the Origami Building method ? That's the remaining question ! Sorry if I am a bit off Topic . Cheers Old Ben > ============ > --- In microcruising@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III" wrote: > > > > Noah's Ark Video Link . > > > > Topic : Small and Larger Boats ,in ALL materials and builds. > > Mono-hull , Trimaran , Catamaran , Proa & other . > > Motor , Sail , Human powered propulsion & other . > > Educational , Funn , all related to Boating , > > see the different Galleries . > > > > Where to start ??? > > NEW : Noah's Ark Video Link : http://tinyurl.com/rk2ye > > > > Simply type or paste the Links and sources found > > under each pic into your adress bar and enjoy :-) > > > > Old Ben | 10598|10598|2006-02-28 14:55:39|Gerd|see it coming..|Looks like we all might soon be hit by a giant marketing offensive: on http://www.origamiproject.com/ there is a big thing in preparation, and rumour has it that the site is registered Microsoft, and that they will soon be launching a iPod competitor called "origami"..... if that happens, we might all get hitrates that will take our poor servers down, I am afraid. Greg will be able to sell his "origamimagic.com" to Bill G for a neat million and finally make some real money, and my provider will kick me out because everybody googling for "origami" and "project" will pile up on his little leased line ;-) Batten down the hatches !! Gerd the Yago project at http://www.justmueller.com/boats/| 10599|10598|2006-02-28 15:41:56|Alex Christie|Re: see it coming..|It's a kinda creepy website! Ours is much more friendly and light, hehehe Alex ----- Original Message ----- From: Gerd To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2006 11:55 AM Subject: [origamiboats] see it coming.. Looks like we all might soon be hit by a giant marketing offensive: on http://www.origamiproject.com/ there is a big thing in preparation, and rumour has it that the site is registered Microsoft, and that they will soon be launching a iPod competitor called "origami"..... if that happens, we might all get hitrates that will take our poor [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 10600|10592|2006-03-01 01:19:42|silascrosby|Re: Stormy Weather|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "richytill" wrote: > > Coming out of Howe Sound yesterday afternoon with 18+ knots of wet > wind/sleet. A joy be out there. This boat, "My Island" is really > stable compared to the lighter racer cruiser types I have owned. I had > to wonder as we sailed along with one reef in, who has accounts of how > a BS 36 responds to Heavy weather conditions. If anyone has first hand > accounts of the behaviour/charecteristics of a BS 36 in such > conditions, I am sure some of us would appreciate hearing about it. > Thanks, rt > RT , That sounds like a great sail in classic Howe Sound winter weather. I hope you get time to sail up to Comox sometime for a visit. I grew up sailing around Howe Sound and area. We have had Silas Crosby out in some good blows ,inshore and offshore. No survival storms but several gales. I have only been worried when I have been late in reducing sail. I have been most uncomfortable when I have been too lazy to get sail back up after a blow. The boat has few vices , in my unbiased opinion (go ahead, ask Brent). When reaching in good seas the flattish area amidships below the chine will occasionally take a direct wave strike and the sound is as if we have hit a 2 ' diameter deadhead. A major 'BONG'. The wavetop smashes up and over the boat ( revealing a wet disadvantage of a centre cockpit and an advantage of the pilothouse and aluminum dodger) Close reaching in more than 25 knots needs close attention to sail trim to keep her moving well through rough head seas. Often the bow punches into the seas with lots of water on the foredeck. The anchor needs to be very well secured to avoid loud banging on the hull ( and damage). I have certainly had green water up over the forehatch but not as far as the pilothouse ( even with ours being farther forward than most). I wonder if a steel mast might drive the bow deeper in a head sea with the greater momentum when pitching. Elsewhere I have described heaving-to in the Pacific 10 days out from Mexico enroute to Hawaii. We were uncomfortable on a beam reach and the movement was violent as the wind increased one night. The wind vane was over powered and even with 3 reefs in the main and a staysail we needed to do something. With the small main strapped down and no foresail the helm was lashed down. I removed the wind vane and laid it in the cockpit ( a single butterfly nut to undo) as it was making a hell of a racket with vibration in the strong wind. I went below. The boat rode sweetly ~ 45 - 50 degrees off the wind moving < 1 knot by GPS. I was happy. The kids were asleep and Barb was reading. I suppose that if the wind had persisted we would need to change tactics as the seas grew. I have a parachute but no series drogue (yet). The wind eased off after a few hours and we carried on at 6 or 7 knots in relative 'comfort'.( It is a small boat at sea - comfort?) Generally the boat is initially tender and early reefing is our rule. It is easy to sail around on our ear but not too swift. We keep the lee rail out of the water. We have not been knocked down or broached (yet). Certainly ,I get a LOT more pleasure from sailing this boat than I did from the 2 yr 4 mo. building job. I could go on and on about the GREAT sailing we have had on this boat , light winds and strong ,in the Gulf or offshore. Some of my best sails have been coming back to Comox from Lasqueti in strong SE or NW. Either a bad weather run down the middle to Comox Bar bell bouy or a close wet reach into the lee of Hornby Is. where the we always get lifted and can make Chrome Is. on one tack I have not been out much on the boat this winter because the back- country skiing has been so good but I am starting to get a bit itchy for a short cruise. Are you in Gibsons ? Steve Millar| 10601|10601|2006-03-01 05:54:36|sae140|A sad story ...|What follows is the sad story (lifted from the World-Cruising site) of the loss of a couple of boats recently, in nothing worse than 'lumpy' conditions. Whilst not wishing to resurrect another "plastic vs. steel" debate, it does make you think ... Colin Feb 13th Early this morning at 6:30 David turned on the HAM radio as he does every morning to get the weather and any cruising news. All day we have been listening to the ongoing drama of the people from two cruising boats in trouble. There were 2 catamarans, Park Place and 'Catatudes' which had anchored last night on the windward ocean side of Mayaguana about 50 miles south east of us. Apparently both boats had decided to leave at about midnight to sail to the Turks and Caicos. The winds were 20 to 30 and the seas 8 to 10 feet. Catatudes raised their anchor, fouled the anchor line in their propeller, and ended up on a reef which damaged their boat enough so that they had to abandon her. They managed to get to shore about a half mile away. The buddy boat 'Park Place' which had managed to up anchor and get into deep water, turned around and tried to help them but managed to damage her rudder on the reef so then had no steering. Park Place put a temporary rudder in place and told, via VHF radio, the couple from Catatudes, to walk about 5 miles through unbroken scrub, woods and ponds and mangrove swamps, to a beach on the other side of the uninhabited end of this island. According to our charts the nearest road was about 15 miles away. The Catatudes folks had a hand held VHF which had a range of approximately 3 to 5 miles. Park Place would try to pick them up on the beach. So they start walking with the intention of making radio contact every half hour. Park Place gets underway and discovers that she not only damaged her steering but was taking on water faster than they could pump it out. "HELP" Now they end up on the reef and the boat is damaged even more, enough so that those folks have to abandon ship. They radioed that they were getting into their ding but were concerned as they had been having problems with their outboard engine. Meantime HAM radio people are trying to get some help going in their direction. BASRA (Bahamas Air Sea Rescue Association) was working on another rescue and unavailable, US Coastguard had a boat 180 miles away, and 2 broken helicopters. The local Capt. Brown's Boys in Blue managed to get themselves together about 11am and picked up a cruiser from the harbor and headed down the coast in a 15 foot ding toward the area where Park Place was sinking. Another cruising boat had to assemble (?) their ding and go about 2 miles away to a large mega Yacht that had a big powerful ding. The owner was not on board and the crew hesitant to help but finally decided to do so. They took off in the 28 foot launch at 1:30 in the afternoon with 5 people on board and a hand held VHF. Now we, and many other cruise boats in the Bahamas with HAM radio, are in the dark with every half hour updates, passed from Ham to VHF to HAM etc, with no news of any contact till about 5:30 when the news came through that all people were safe and on board the Mega yacht launch. At 6pm we heard first hand the report from one of the rescue crew of the details of the entire adventure. So alls well that ends well, unfortunately both boats were uninsured and both total losses but no loss of life and no serious injuries.| 10602|10592|2006-03-01 15:59:50|brentswain38|Re: Stormy Weather|Bill Mottershead ,comming home from Hawaii last summer encountered 100 knots of wind. As he didn't have time to put a drogue out , he ran with it. The self steering steered her at up to 15 knots surfing as if she were on rails . A cross sea put the spreaders in a couple of times, but she showed absolutely no tendency to broach. Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "richytill" wrote: > > Coming out of Howe Sound yesterday afternoon with 18+ knots of wet > wind/sleet. A joy be out there. This boat, "My Island" is really > stable compared to the lighter racer cruiser types I have owned. I had > to wonder as we sailed along with one reef in, who has accounts of how > a BS 36 responds to Heavy weather conditions. If anyone has first hand > accounts of the behaviour/charecteristics of a BS 36 in such > conditions, I am sure some of us would appreciate hearing about it. > Thanks, rt > | 10603|10598|2006-03-01 16:11:38|brentswain38|Re: see it coming..|I tried to click onto it and all I got was a black screen. There is no way a big project can compete with people working in their own backyards with occasionally and far more experienced hired help , cost wise. There are enough suckers who believe or are able to justify the belief that the more they are ripped off, the beter product they are hetting( try tell Ralph Nader that) , but there will always be enough resourceful people who will need what we provide in terms of info and experience. I remember a builder of very expensive steel boats asking for My phone number so he could put people onto me if the complained about his prices. I resisted the temptation to suggest that I would put people onto him if they complained about my prices. If anyone complains about my prices I'll definitly put them onto Greg and co.Some consumer society programmed suckers will actually go for it. I remember quoting one guy back in the early 80's ,$1,000 dollars labour for a 36 foot shell. He thought that was too cheap so he went for a builder who quoted him $15,000 for the same job. The boat he got was nowhere near as good a boat as I would have built him(1/8th plate for the bottom of the keel), but the price convinced him he had made the right move. There are enough rational people around tom keep us in business. Brent -- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Gerd" wrote: > > Looks like we all might soon be hit by a giant marketing offensive: > on http://www.origamiproject.com/ there is a big thing in preparation, > and rumour has it that the site is registered Microsoft, and that > they will soon be launching a iPod competitor called "origami"..... > if that happens, we might all get hitrates that will take our poor > servers down, I am afraid. Greg will be able to sell > his "origamimagic.com" to Bill G for a neat million and finally make > some real money, and my provider will kick me out because everybody > googling for "origami" and "project" will pile up on his little leased > line ;-) > > Batten down the hatches !! > > Gerd > the Yago project at http://www.justmueller.com/boats/ > | 10604|10598|2006-03-01 16:17:59|Wesley Cox|Re: see it coming..|The web site pertains to a new Microsoft product, some sort of portable multi-media device. Official details release Mar. 6. Nothing to do with boats. brentswain38 wrote: >I tried to click onto it and all I got was a black screen. There is >no way a big project can compete with people working in their own >backyards with occasionally and far more experienced hired help , >cost wise. There are enough suckers who believe or are able to >justify the belief that the more they are ripped off, the beter >product they are hetting( try tell Ralph Nader that) , but there will >always be enough resourceful people who will need what we provide in >terms of info and experience. > I remember a builder of very expensive steel boats asking for My >phone number so he could put people onto me if the complained about >his prices. I resisted the temptation to suggest that I would put >people onto him if they complained about my prices. > If anyone complains about my prices I'll definitly put them onto >Greg and co.Some consumer society programmed suckers will actually go >for it. > I remember quoting one guy back in the early 80's ,$1,000 dollars >labour for a 36 foot shell. He thought that was too cheap so he went >for a builder who quoted him $15,000 for the same job. The boat he >got was nowhere near as good a boat as I would have built him(1/8th >plate for the bottom of the keel), but the price convinced him he had >made the right move. > There are enough rational people around tom keep us in business. >Brent > > >-- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Gerd" wrote: > > >>Looks like we all might soon be hit by a giant marketing offensive: >>on http://www.origamiproject.com/ there is a big thing in >> >> >preparation, > > >>and rumour has it that the site is registered Microsoft, and that >>they will soon be launching a iPod competitor called "origami"..... >>if that happens, we might all get hitrates that will take our poor >>servers down, I am afraid. Greg will be able to sell >>his "origamimagic.com" to Bill G for a neat million and finally >> >> >make > > >>some real money, and my provider will kick me out because everybody >>googling for "origami" and "project" will pile up on his little >> >> >leased > > >>line ;-) >> >>Batten down the hatches !! >> >>Gerd >>the Yago project at http://www.justmueller.com/boats/ >> >> >> > > > > > > >To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com >To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > | 10605|10592|2006-03-01 16:29:44|Aaron Williams|Re: Stormy Weather|Is this with twin keels or single? brentswain38 wrote: Bill Mottershead ,comming home from Hawaii last summer encountered 100 knots of wind. As he didn't have time to put a drogue out , he ran with it. The self steering steered her at up to 15 knots surfing as if she were on rails . A cross sea put the spreaders in a couple of times, but she showed absolutely no tendency to broach. Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "richytill" wrote: > > Coming out of Howe Sound yesterday afternoon with 18+ knots of wet > wind/sleet. A joy be out there. This boat, "My Island" is really > stable compared to the lighter racer cruiser types I have owned. I had > to wonder as we sailed along with one reef in, who has accounts of how > a BS 36 responds to Heavy weather conditions. If anyone has first hand > accounts of the behaviour/charecteristics of a BS 36 in such > conditions, I am sure some of us would appreciate hearing about it. > Thanks, rt > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com SPONSORED LINKS British columbia canada Vancouver island Yacht --------------------------------- YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. --------------------------------- --------------------------------- Yahoo! Mail Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 10606|10598|2006-03-01 16:31:25|Gerd|Re: see it coming..|...being misunderstood is the curse of my life. Will go shoot myself immdiately. bye ;-) Gerd --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Wesley Cox wrote: > > The web site pertains to a new Microsoft product, some sort of portable > multi-media device. Official details release Mar. 6. Nothing to do > with boats. > > > brentswain38 wrote: > > >I tried to click onto it and all I got was a black screen. There is > >no way a big project can compete with people working in their own > >backyards with occasionally and far more experienced hired help , > >cost wise. There are enough suckers who believe or are able to > >justify the belief that the more they are ripped off, the beter > >product they are hetting( try tell Ralph Nader that) , but there will > >always be enough resourceful people who will need what we provide in > >terms of info and experience. > > I remember a builder of very expensive steel boats asking for My > >phone number so he could put people onto me if the complained about > >his prices. I resisted the temptation to suggest that I would put > >people onto him if they complained about my prices. > > If anyone complains about my prices I'll definitly put them onto > >Greg and co.Some consumer society programmed suckers will actually go > >for it. > > I remember quoting one guy back in the early 80's ,$1,000 dollars > >labour for a 36 foot shell. He thought that was too cheap so he went > >for a builder who quoted him $15,000 for the same job. The boat he > >got was nowhere near as good a boat as I would have built him (1/8th > >plate for the bottom of the keel), but the price convinced him he had > >made the right move. > > There are enough rational people around tom keep us in business. > >Brent > > > > > >-- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Gerd" wrote: > > > > > >>Looks like we all might soon be hit by a giant marketing offensive: > >>on http://www.origamiproject.com/ there is a big thing in > >> > >> > >preparation, > > > > > >>and rumour has it that the site is registered Microsoft, and that > >>they will soon be launching a iPod competitor called "origami"..... > >>if that happens, we might all get hitrates that will take our poor > >>servers down, I am afraid. Greg will be able to sell > >>his "origamimagic.com" to Bill G for a neat million and finally > >> > >> > >make > > > > > >>some real money, and my provider will kick me out because everybody > >>googling for "origami" and "project" will pile up on his little > >> > >> > >leased > > > > > >>line ;-) > >> > >>Batten down the hatches !! > >> > >>Gerd > >>the Yago project at http://www.justmueller.com/boats/ > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > >To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats- unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > | 10607|10588|2006-03-01 16:32:31|brentswain38|Re: Self Tacking Jibs|The highest anyone has gone for a mast on a 36 is 52 feet which made the boat very tender, without increasing the sail area enough to make up for the lack of overlap.I tried a self tacking jib in the early 70's but gave up on it due to the lack of sail area .If you do a scale drawing of the sail plan and check out the increase in sail area , you'll find that as you go taller the area increases less and less, leaving yu with a relatively small increase with a much more tender boat. Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "mickeyolaf" wrote: > > I was reading an article the other day by Robert Perry. He was reviewing a German sailboat > that came with a self tacking jib for a foresail. He mentioned that if you change a > standard rig to self tacking then the mast should be higher to compensate for the loss of > the jib overlapping the mast by 30 or 60% (depending on the size of the genoa). > > Brent, if a person went with a 100% self tacking jib what would you think of an increase in > mast hight for the Swain 36 to allow more sail area for a s/t jib? How much height could > you safely add without upsetting the stability? Would you have to also go to a double > spreader rig? > | 10608|10598|2006-03-01 17:30:00|Wesley Cox|Re: see it coming..|I think those of us that do build our own boats or even think about are eccentric enough to be misunderstood by default. ;-) Gerd wrote: >...being misunderstood is the curse of my life. Will go shoot myself >immdiately. bye ;-) >Gerd > > > > | 10610|10610|2006-03-01 19:24:02|jericoera|Volvo Diesel for sale $750|Volvo Diesel for sale $750 French Creek Boat Sales on Vancouver Island has a 2003B Volvo Diesel (3 cyclinder) for sale right now for $750 reported to be in good running condition Carl M.| 10611|10592|2006-03-01 20:42:48|richytill|Re: Stormy Weather|Steve, great account of things. Helps us to prepare. Yes we are in Gibsons. Thank you. rt --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "silascrosby" wrote: > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "richytill" wrote: > > > > Coming out of Howe Sound yesterday afternoon with 18+ knots of wet > > wind/sleet. A joy be out there. This boat, "My Island" is really > > stable compared to the lighter racer cruiser types I have owned. I > had > > to wonder as we sailed along with one reef in, who has accounts of > how > > a BS 36 responds to Heavy weather conditions. If anyone has first > hand > > accounts of the behaviour/charecteristics of a BS 36 in such > > conditions, I am sure some of us would appreciate hearing about it. > > Thanks, rt > > > RT , That sounds like a great sail in classic Howe Sound winter > weather. I hope you get time to sail up to Comox sometime for a visit. > I grew up sailing around Howe Sound and area. > We have had Silas Crosby out in some good blows ,inshore and > offshore. No survival storms but several gales. I have only been > worried when I have been late in reducing sail. I have been most > uncomfortable when I have been too lazy to get sail back up after a > blow. The boat has few vices , in my unbiased opinion (go ahead, ask > Brent). When reaching in good seas the flattish area amidships below > the chine will occasionally take a direct wave strike and the sound is > as if we have hit a 2 ' diameter deadhead. A major 'BONG'. The wavetop > smashes up and over the boat ( revealing a wet disadvantage of a > centre cockpit and an advantage of the pilothouse and aluminum dodger) > Close reaching in more than 25 knots needs close attention to sail > trim to keep her moving well through rough head seas. Often the bow > punches into the seas with lots of water on the foredeck. The anchor > needs to be very well secured to avoid loud banging on the hull ( and > damage). I have certainly had green water up over the forehatch but > not as far as the pilothouse ( even with ours being farther forward > than most). I wonder if a steel mast might drive the bow deeper in a > head sea with the greater momentum when pitching. > Elsewhere I have described heaving-to in the Pacific 10 days out from > Mexico enroute to Hawaii. We were uncomfortable on a beam reach and > the movement was violent as the wind increased one night. The wind > vane was over powered and even with 3 reefs in the main and a staysail > we needed to do something. With the small main strapped down and no > foresail the helm was lashed down. I removed the wind vane and laid it > in the cockpit ( a single butterfly nut to undo) as it was making a > hell of a racket with vibration in the strong wind. I went below. The > boat rode sweetly ~ 45 - 50 degrees off the wind moving < 1 knot by > GPS. I was happy. The kids were asleep and Barb was reading. I suppose > that if the wind had persisted we would need to change tactics as the > seas grew. I have a parachute but no series drogue (yet). The wind > eased off after a few hours and we carried on at 6 or 7 knots in > relative 'comfort'.( It is a small boat at sea - comfort?) > Generally the boat is initially tender and early reefing is our > rule. It is easy to sail around on our ear but not too swift. We keep > the lee rail out of the water. We have not been knocked down or > broached (yet). > Certainly ,I get a LOT more pleasure from sailing this boat than I > did from the 2 yr 4 mo. building job. I could go on and on about the > GREAT sailing we have had on this boat , light winds and strong ,in > the Gulf or offshore. Some of my best sails have been coming back to > Comox from Lasqueti in strong SE or NW. Either a bad weather run down > the middle to Comox Bar bell bouy or a close wet reach into the lee of > Hornby Is. where the we always get lifted and can make Chrome Is. on > one tack > I have not been out much on the boat this winter because the back- > country skiing has been so good but I am starting to get a bit itchy > for a short cruise. Are you in Gibsons ? > Steve Millar > | 10612|9840|2006-03-01 23:01:29|scott ollie|Re: BS 26; OB gives new meaning to "BS"|Hey OB, Suffering from a bout of identity crisis? Must be hard to keeping track. Am I the only one to take notice? SK a_admi wrote: Hi Tom , nice pics you posted . I wonder why you did not considered building the cockpit sole under a backwards facing angle ? Two holes in the transom [ eventualy fitted with a non return valve ]at each corner will do . In heavy weather the boat will pitch . Building a flat cockpit sole will only increase time to empty the bathtub , just imagine taking a bath there in hot weather :-) Old Ben --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "tazmannusa" wrote: > > Hello All > I managed to get the cockpit tacked in today, Bent it up on my 4 foot > leaf brake, worked ok but my back is sore 12gage is pretty tough to > bend by hand. Anyway the seats are level and the well slopes an 1- 1/2" > to the stern, Had to brake it up in three pieces to make it out of one > 4x8 sheet. The seats are 20" wide and the foot well is 26" wide and it > is 40" long. The wife and I were setting in it and it seems big enough, > could seat four being a little chummey. > I posted a couple more pictures in origamiboats2. > Does anyone know how to figure what size drains are needed? Im > thinking eather 2 2" or 1 3" in the center draining to the transom > Tom > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com SPONSORED LINKS British columbia canada Vancouver island Yacht --------------------------------- YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. --------------------------------- --------------------------------- Yahoo! Mail Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 10613|9840|2006-03-01 23:35:41|Puck III|Re: BS 26; OB gives new meaning to "BS"|Hey SK , no identity crisis , responding to her many mails !! A wink to message 10552 :-) Did you miss that one ?? Some "Wangka" comments made me vacationed :-) Having funn OB --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, scott ollie wrote: > > Hey OB, Suffering from a bout of identity crisis? Must be hard to keeping track. Am I the only one to take notice? > > SK > > a_admi wrote: Hi Tom , nice pics you posted . > I wonder why you did not considered building the cockpit sole > under a backwards facing angle ? > Two holes in the transom [ eventualy fitted with a non > return valve ]at each corner will do . > In heavy weather the boat will pitch . > Building a flat cockpit sole will only increase time > to empty the bathtub , just imagine taking a bath there > in hot weather :-) > > Old Ben > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "tazmannusa" wrote: > > > > Hello All > > I managed to get the cockpit tacked in today, Bent it up on my 4 > foot > > leaf brake, worked ok but my back is sore 12gage is pretty tough to > > bend by hand. Anyway the seats are level and the well slopes an 1- > 1/2" > > to the stern, Had to brake it up in three pieces to make it out of > one > > 4x8 sheet. The seats are 20" wide and the foot well is 26" wide and > it > > is 40" long. The wife and I were setting in it and it seems big > enough, > > could seat four being a little chummey. > > I posted a couple more pictures in origamiboats2. > > Does anyone know how to figure what size drains are needed? Im > > thinking eather 2 2" or 1 3" in the center draining to the transom > > Tom > > > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats- unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > SPONSORED LINKS > British columbia canada Vancouver island Yacht > > --------------------------------- > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > > Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > > --------------------------------- > > > > > > --------------------------------- > Yahoo! Mail > Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > | 10614|9840|2006-03-02 00:56:33|Gerd|Re: BS 26; OB gives new meaning to "BS"|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, scott ollie wrote: > > Hey OB, Suffering from a bout of identity crisis? Must be hard to keeping track. Am I the only one to take notice? no. ;-)| 10615|9840|2006-03-02 08:08:13|tom|Re: BS 26; OB gives new meaning to "BS"|Yes I defenently noticed also but didnt ask figured might be trying to stir the pot again. Old Ben I went back to message 10522 and that was my post on decking, not sure what your talkin about and what does Wangka mean? Tom ----- Original Message ----- From: "Puck III" To: Sent: Wednesday, March 01, 2006 8:35 PM Subject: [origamiboats] Re: BS 26; OB gives new meaning to "BS" > Hey SK , no identity crisis , responding to her many mails !! > A wink to message 10552 :-) Did you miss that one ?? > Some "Wangka" comments made me vacationed :-) > Having funn > OB > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, scott ollie > wrote: >> >> Hey OB, Suffering from a bout of identity crisis? Must be hard to > keeping track. Am I the only one to take notice? >> >> SK >> >> a_admi wrote: Hi Tom , nice pics you posted . >> I wonder why you did not considered building the cockpit sole >> under a backwards facing angle ? >> Two holes in the transom [ eventualy fitted with a non >> return valve ]at each corner will do . >> In heavy weather the boat will pitch . >> Building a flat cockpit sole will only increase time >> to empty the bathtub , just imagine taking a bath there >> in hot weather :-) >> >> Old Ben >> >> --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "tazmannusa" > wrote: >> > >> > Hello All >> > I managed to get the cockpit tacked in today, Bent it up on my > 4 >> foot >> > leaf brake, worked ok but my back is sore 12gage is pretty > tough to >> > bend by hand. Anyway the seats are level and the well slopes an > 1- >> 1/2" >> > to the stern, Had to brake it up in three pieces to make it out > of >> one >> > 4x8 sheet. The seats are 20" wide and the foot well is 26" wide > and >> it >> > is 40" long. The wife and I were setting in it and it seems big >> enough, >> > could seat four being a little chummey. >> > I posted a couple more pictures in origamiboats2. >> > Does anyone know how to figure what size drains are needed? Im >> > thinking eather 2 2" or 1 3" in the center draining to the > transom >> > Tom >> > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com >> To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats- > unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com >> >> >> >> SPONSORED LINKS >> British > columbia canada Vancouver > island > Yacht > >> >> --------------------------------- >> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS >> >> >> Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web. >> >> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >> origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com >> >> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > Service. >> >> >> --------------------------------- >> >> >> >> >> >> --------------------------------- >> Yahoo! Mail >> Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze. >> >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >> > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > | 10616|10592|2006-03-02 16:44:09|brentswain38|Re: Stormy Weather|She was a single keeler Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Aaron Williams wrote: > > Is this with twin keels or single? > > brentswain38 wrote: Bill Mottershead ,comming home from Hawaii last summer encountered 100 > knots of wind. As he didn't have time to put a drogue out , he ran with > it. The self steering steered her at up to 15 knots surfing as if she > were on rails . A cross sea put the spreaders in a couple of times, but > she showed absolutely no tendency to broach. > Brent > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "richytill" wrote: > > > > Coming out of Howe Sound yesterday afternoon with 18+ knots of wet > > wind/sleet. A joy be out there. This boat, "My Island" is really > > stable compared to the lighter racer cruiser types I have owned. I > had > > to wonder as we sailed along with one reef in, who has accounts of > how > > a BS 36 responds to Heavy weather conditions. If anyone has first > hand > > accounts of the behaviour/charecteristics of a BS 36 in such > > conditions, I am sure some of us would appreciate hearing about it. > > Thanks, rt > > > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats- unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > SPONSORED LINKS > British columbia canada Vancouver island Yacht > > --------------------------------- > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > > Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > > --------------------------------- > > > > > > --------------------------------- > Yahoo! Mail > Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > | 10617|10610|2006-03-02 16:49:56|brentswain38|Re: Volvo Diesel for sale $750|Volvos don't stay in running condition long. The Ausssies call them"The Green Death" for good reason. About all they are good for is mooring blocks and are not very good at that unless they are huge. Steer clear of Volvo's.I've met very few cruisers who are happy with them and dozens who aren't. Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "jericoera" wrote: > > Volvo Diesel for sale $750 > > French Creek Boat Sales on Vancouver Island has a 2003B Volvo Diesel > (3 cyclinder) for sale right now for $750 reported to be in good > running condition > > Carl M. > | 10618|10592|2006-03-02 16:51:54|brentswain38|Re: Stormy Weather|As any anchor bangs in a bow roller , when making a long deepsea passage I cat the anchors up onto the foredeck or further aft. I makes for a much quieter trip. I put them back when I'm a day from landfall. Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "silascrosby" wrote: > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "richytill" wrote: > > > > Coming out of Howe Sound yesterday afternoon with 18+ knots of wet > > wind/sleet. A joy be out there. This boat, "My Island" is really > > stable compared to the lighter racer cruiser types I have owned. I > had > > to wonder as we sailed along with one reef in, who has accounts of > how > > a BS 36 responds to Heavy weather conditions. If anyone has first > hand > > accounts of the behaviour/charecteristics of a BS 36 in such > > conditions, I am sure some of us would appreciate hearing about it. > > Thanks, rt > > > RT , That sounds like a great sail in classic Howe Sound winter > weather. I hope you get time to sail up to Comox sometime for a visit. > I grew up sailing around Howe Sound and area. > We have had Silas Crosby out in some good blows ,inshore and > offshore. No survival storms but several gales. I have only been > worried when I have been late in reducing sail. I have been most > uncomfortable when I have been too lazy to get sail back up after a > blow. The boat has few vices , in my unbiased opinion (go ahead, ask > Brent). When reaching in good seas the flattish area amidships below > the chine will occasionally take a direct wave strike and the sound is > as if we have hit a 2 ' diameter deadhead. A major 'BONG'. The wavetop > smashes up and over the boat ( revealing a wet disadvantage of a > centre cockpit and an advantage of the pilothouse and aluminum dodger) > Close reaching in more than 25 knots needs close attention to sail > trim to keep her moving well through rough head seas. Often the bow > punches into the seas with lots of water on the foredeck. The anchor > needs to be very well secured to avoid loud banging on the hull ( and > damage). I have certainly had green water up over the forehatch but > not as far as the pilothouse ( even with ours being farther forward > than most). I wonder if a steel mast might drive the bow deeper in a > head sea with the greater momentum when pitching. > Elsewhere I have described heaving-to in the Pacific 10 days out from > Mexico enroute to Hawaii. We were uncomfortable on a beam reach and > the movement was violent as the wind increased one night. The wind > vane was over powered and even with 3 reefs in the main and a staysail > we needed to do something. With the small main strapped down and no > foresail the helm was lashed down. I removed the wind vane and laid it > in the cockpit ( a single butterfly nut to undo) as it was making a > hell of a racket with vibration in the strong wind. I went below. The > boat rode sweetly ~ 45 - 50 degrees off the wind moving < 1 knot by > GPS. I was happy. The kids were asleep and Barb was reading. I suppose > that if the wind had persisted we would need to change tactics as the > seas grew. I have a parachute but no series drogue (yet). The wind > eased off after a few hours and we carried on at 6 or 7 knots in > relative 'comfort'.( It is a small boat at sea - comfort?) > Generally the boat is initially tender and early reefing is our > rule. It is easy to sail around on our ear but not too swift. We keep > the lee rail out of the water. We have not been knocked down or > broached (yet). > Certainly ,I get a LOT more pleasure from sailing this boat than I > did from the 2 yr 4 mo. building job. I could go on and on about the > GREAT sailing we have had on this boat , light winds and strong ,in > the Gulf or offshore. Some of my best sails have been coming back to > Comox from Lasqueti in strong SE or NW. Either a bad weather run down > the middle to Comox Bar bell bouy or a close wet reach into the lee of > Hornby Is. where the we always get lifted and can make Chrome Is. on > one tack > I have not been out much on the boat this winter because the back- > country skiing has been so good but I am starting to get a bit itchy > for a short cruise. Are you in Gibsons ? > Steve Millar > | 10619|10592|2006-03-02 19:34:39|richytill|Re: Stormy Weather|Brent, thanks for the account "100 knots." I am making a place for one anchor fwd of the mast step after trying it in a few places. rt In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "brentswain38" wrote: > > As any anchor bangs in a bow roller , when making a long deepsea > passage I cat the anchors up onto the foredeck or further aft. I > makes for a much quieter trip. I put them back when I'm a day from > landfall. > Brent > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "silascrosby" > wrote: > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "richytill" wrote: > > > > > > Coming out of Howe Sound yesterday afternoon with 18+ knots of > wet > > > wind/sleet. A joy be out there. This boat, "My Island" is > really > > > stable compared to the lighter racer cruiser types I have owned. > I > > had > > > to wonder as we sailed along with one reef in, who has accounts > of > > how > > > a BS 36 responds to Heavy weather conditions. If anyone has > first > > hand > > > accounts of the behaviour/charecteristics of a BS 36 in such > > > conditions, I am sure some of us would appreciate hearing about > it. > > > Thanks, rt > > > > > RT , That sounds like a great sail in classic Howe Sound winter > > weather. I hope you get time to sail up to Comox sometime for a > visit. > > I grew up sailing around Howe Sound and area. > > We have had Silas Crosby out in some good blows ,inshore and > > offshore. No survival storms but several gales. I have only been > > worried when I have been late in reducing sail. I have been most > > uncomfortable when I have been too lazy to get sail back up after a > > blow. The boat has few vices , in my unbiased opinion (go ahead, > ask > > Brent). When reaching in good seas the flattish area amidships > below > > the chine will occasionally take a direct wave strike and the sound > is > > as if we have hit a 2 ' diameter deadhead. A major 'BONG'. The > wavetop > > smashes up and over the boat ( revealing a wet disadvantage of a > > centre cockpit and an advantage of the pilothouse and aluminum > dodger) > > Close reaching in more than 25 knots needs close attention to sail > > trim to keep her moving well through rough head seas. Often the bow > > punches into the seas with lots of water on the foredeck. The > anchor > > needs to be very well secured to avoid loud banging on the hull ( > and > > damage). I have certainly had green water up over the forehatch but > > not as far as the pilothouse ( even with ours being farther forward > > than most). I wonder if a steel mast might drive the bow deeper in > a > > head sea with the greater momentum when pitching. > > Elsewhere I have described heaving-to in the Pacific 10 days out > from > > Mexico enroute to Hawaii. We were uncomfortable on a beam reach and > > the movement was violent as the wind increased one night. The wind > > vane was over powered and even with 3 reefs in the main and a > staysail > > we needed to do something. With the small main strapped down and no > > foresail the helm was lashed down. I removed the wind vane and laid > it > > in the cockpit ( a single butterfly nut to undo) as it was making a > > hell of a racket with vibration in the strong wind. I went below. > The > > boat rode sweetly ~ 45 - 50 degrees off the wind moving < 1 knot by > > GPS. I was happy. The kids were asleep and Barb was reading. I > suppose > > that if the wind had persisted we would need to change tactics as > the > > seas grew. I have a parachute but no series drogue (yet). The wind > > eased off after a few hours and we carried on at 6 or 7 knots in > > relative 'comfort'.( It is a small boat at sea - comfort?) > > Generally the boat is initially tender and early reefing is our > > rule. It is easy to sail around on our ear but not too swift. We > keep > > the lee rail out of the water. We have not been knocked down or > > broached (yet). > > Certainly ,I get a LOT more pleasure from sailing this boat than > I > > did from the 2 yr 4 mo. building job. I could go on and on about > the > > GREAT sailing we have had on this boat , light winds and strong ,in > > the Gulf or offshore. Some of my best sails have been coming back > to > > Comox from Lasqueti in strong SE or NW. Either a bad weather run > down > > the middle to Comox Bar bell bouy or a close wet reach into the lee > of > > Hornby Is. where the we always get lifted and can make Chrome Is. > on > > one tack > > I have not been out much on the boat this winter because the back- > > country skiing has been so good but I am starting to get a bit > itchy > > for a short cruise. Are you in Gibsons ? > > Steve Millar > > > | 10620|10592|2006-03-03 11:10:43|silascrosby|Re: Stormy Weather|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "brentswain38" wrote: > > As any anchor bangs in a bow roller , when making a long deepsea > passage I cat the anchors up onto the foredeck or further aft. I > makes for a much quieter trip. I put them back when I'm a day from > landfall. > Brent > > Brent , most of my anchor banging is in the short seas inshore so I use a short bit of line to strap down the moving bits of the CQR. Also, I am not closehauled much offshore. Steve| 10621|10574|2006-03-04 04:57:05|Puck III|Re: 4 D Modeling tool + Modular Boat|Nice pic + link for a small boat or small catamaran and other interesting FREE buildingmanuals ! See : http://tinyurl.com/pkvzz link under pic :-) Did the designers used the 4D Modeling tool ? Old Ben --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III" wrote: > > I just imagined that if you can model a cone > -a developable surface — one that can be (locally) unrolled onto a > flat plane without tearing or stretching — if complete, it is > necessarily ruled, but the converse is not always true. > -Thus the cylinder and cone are developable . > -The only minimal surfaces that are ruled are the plane and the > helicoid. > > -an ellipsoid , a spheroid and a taurus added to the cone will > model a special kinda origamihull :-) > > I'l post a pic when I receive the ' lighting Kit ' > > I'l post the model near my bed , > easyer to find the way back in the dark ! > The Special Brew is tempting more than one :-) > 3 days of Carnaval !!! fine perspectives...... > > Cheers > OB > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, ".." wrote: > > > > How do you use this zometool to model an origami hull > > or boat building ? > > where is the 4D or is that a function of a quantity special brew? > > Geoff > > > > > > An interesting simple modelingtool for kids , adults > > and teachers alike sure can be helpfull if you want > > to trye out some Origami or other boatbuilding techniques ! > > See : > > http://www.zometool.com/ > > a special brew Ale , for the beer lovers can help : > > http://tinyurl.com/grwlx > > > > Cheers > > Old Ben > > > > > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > SPONSORED LINKS > > British > > t=ms&k=British+columbia+canada&w1=British+colu > > > mbia+canada&w2=Vancouver+island&w3=Yacht&c=3&s=62&.sig=Q4lYYtlNW0FQO44 > ezC2G3 > > Q> columbia canada Vancouver > > t=ms&k=Vancouver+island&w1=British+columbia+ca > > > nada&w2=Vancouver+island&w3=Yacht&c=3&s=62&.sig=TVvK0pZk9dkmygRA0hegNw > > > > island Yacht > > t=ms&k=Yacht&w1=British+columbia+canada&w2=Van > > couver+island&w3=Yacht&c=3&s=62&.sig=lCcJSZ2V25esT9G6EcjB6g> > > > > > _____ > > > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > > > > > > > * Visit your group "origamiboats > > " on the web. > > > > > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > subject=Unsubscribe> > > > > > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > Service > > . > > > > > > _____ > > > > > > > > --- > > Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. > > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > > Version: 6.0.859 / Virus Database: 585 - Release Date: 14/02/2005 > > > > > > > > --- > > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > > Version: 6.0.859 / Virus Database: 585 - Release Date: 14/02/2005 > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > | 10622|10622|2006-03-04 08:44:56|Puck III|Container Boats|Container Boat Living has evolved a lot : http://tinyurl.com/rdq2c is a direct Link to a new Combo Pic the concept can vary from small to large . the supporting hull or hulls sure can be build in Origami :-) Sure an option worth looking into . Old Ben| 10623|10623|2006-03-04 11:05:55|jericoera|New production dinghy!!!|New production dinghy Anyone looking for a production dinghy might want to look at the Portland pudgy www.portlandpudgy.com They have tried to make it a good sailing and rowing,towing,stowing andlife capsule product claiming to be unsinkable too. Its not even in full production yet but certainly addresses a lot of issues and is reasonably light at 110 pounds. Not for the do it yourselfer purists but certainly an option for some people. Pricing-not sure what it would be up here in Canada-i don't think distribution has been fully set up yet. Carl Mc| 10624|10610|2006-03-04 13:00:13|cirejay|Re: Volvo Diesel for sale $750|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "brentswain38" wrote: > > Volvos don't stay in running condition long. The Ausssies call them"The > Green Death" for good reason. About all they are good for is mooring > blocks and are not very good at that unless they are huge. Steer clear > of Volvo's.I've met very few cruisers who are happy with them and > dozens who aren't. Yep, when I bought my boat it had a nearly dead Volvo and so the price was discounted the amount of a new engine. This was great because I would have taken it out, even if were new. As an aside, when Ford bought Volvo automotive, I couldn't wait to call all my Volvo driving friends - nice people, even if the drive Volvos:-) - and ask them what it was like, owning a Ford. eric S/V nebaras| 10625|10610|2006-03-04 20:10:47|Denis Buggy|Re: Volvo Diesel for sale $750|dear all who have had volvo trouble could you tell us about it . does anybody know where i can get a book info /on water jets amazon have nothing regards denis ----- Original Message ----- From: cirejay To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, March 04, 2006 6:00 PM Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Volvo Diesel for sale $750 --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "brentswain38" wrote: > > Volvos don't stay in running condition long. The Ausssies call them"The > Green Death" for good reason. About all they are good for is mooring > blocks and are not very good at that unless they are huge. Steer clear > of Volvo's.I've met very few cruisers who are happy with them and > dozens who aren't. Yep, when I bought my boat it had a nearly dead Volvo and so the price was discounted the amount of a new engine. This was great because I would have taken it out, even if were new. SPONSORED LINKS British columbia canada Vancouver island ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 10626|10623|2006-03-05 08:05:04|Carl Volkwein|Re: New production dinghy!!!|Has anyone checked out "sport-yak'/ when i was growing up, about 40 years ago some of our friends had one. They still make them, i think AMF has them now, but I don't know where you can actually buy one. carl from W.V. jericoera wrote: New production dinghy Anyone looking for a production dinghy might want to look at the Portland pudgy www.portlandpudgy.com They have tried to make it a good sailing and rowing,towing,stowing andlife capsule product claiming to be unsinkable too. Its not even in full production yet but certainly addresses a lot of issues and is reasonably light at 110 pounds. Not for the do it yourselfer purists but certainly an option for some people. Pricing-not sure what it would be up here in Canada-i don't think distribution has been fully set up yet. Carl Mc To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com SPONSORED LINKS British columbia canada Vancouver island Yacht --------------------------------- YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. --------------------------------- --------------------------------- Yahoo! Mail Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]| 10627|10622|2006-03-05 08:09:43|Carl Volkwein|Re: Container Boats|That'd be nice somewhere like Fla.where there's lots of water, and hot weather. carl from W.V. Puck III wrote: Container Boat Living has evolved a lot : http://tinyurl.com/rdq2c is a direct Link to a new Combo Pic the concept can vary from small to large . the supporting hull or hulls sure can be build in Origami :-) Sure an option worth looking into . Old Ben To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com SPONSORED LINKS British columbia canada Vancouver island Yacht --------------------------------- YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. --------------------------------- --------------------------------- Brings words and photos together (easily) with PhotoMail - it's free and works with Yahoo! Mail. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]| 10628|10628|2006-03-05 12:00:20|mkriley@fuse.net|Re: volvo diesels|I have been a boat repair person since the 70's and my take on volvo diesels are with the older md-x series md1 md2 etc. these are high quality marine diesels low rpm can be rebuilt in the boat, seperate heads and waterjacketed cylinders. low rpm. these were designed for commercial fishing and run forever and they are all cast iron. cons are very heavy for the hp, loud, vibration, and very expensive for parts in the us. all said I would take it over any automotive diesel conversion, these all do badly in the marine envirement as they are not designed for constant load and are maid of corrosive materials. mike| 10629|10629|2006-03-05 12:15:18|mkriley@fuse.net|Re: Digest Number 1483 sport-yac|I have owned maybe 6 of these over the years for maybe two reasons you can find them for dirt cheap and no one will steal them. pros cheap very light people don't bother to steal them soft, will not scratch your boat cons wet butt degrade easily in the sun and split very poor load capacity and balance this is for the original one I imagine the sport-yak 2 would be better almost impossible to repair,need to stitch with wire and plastic weld coffee can lids overtop of split a good dink for a small sailboat if you get it Cheap and don't mind getting it wet. mike| 10630|10630|2006-03-05 18:56:36|SHANE ROTHWELL|container living|I bought two 20' containers for the move, now stuffed with everything we own whilst we hunt for property (a most frustrating process) & have been thinking of building a house with them later....but for the wife.... A couple of those big propane cylinders -you can buy for scrap- would also make good sponsons & are sure sturdy enuf. when floated (like when used as a breakwater like at April point marina on the Island) they float very high out of the water, indicative of buoyancy.... cheap enuf too. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com| 10631|10631|2006-03-05 19:18:06|SHANE ROTHWELL|Portland pudgy|the sportyak & BIC (yes, made by the pen co) are great little units, but as its made by either vacform & ultrasonic welding the 2 halves together or rotaional molding (like it appears the pudgy is made). all well & good, but that tough almost waxy feeling plastic - usually polypropelene (sp) or polyethaline is virtually impossible to fix..exept perhaps by welding. might pay to see if they have samples of material available & take them to your local plasic welder to test em & put together a patch kit __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com| 10632|10601|2006-03-05 22:55:25|jericoera|Re: A sad story ...|Just curious but I am wondering why in the middle of teh night the crew would decide it a good time to take of in those conditions. Were the boats already in peril? CArl M --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "sae140" wrote: > > What follows is the sad story (lifted from the World-Cruising > site) of the loss of a couple of boats recently, in nothing > worse than 'lumpy' conditions. Whilst not wishing to resurrect > another "plastic vs. steel" debate, it does make you think ... > > Colin > > > Feb 13th Early this morning at 6:30 David turned on the HAM > radio as he does every morning to get the weather and any > cruising news. All day we have been listening to the ongoing > drama of the people from two cruising boats in trouble. > There were 2 catamarans, Park Place and 'Catatudes' which had > anchored last night on the windward ocean side of Mayaguana > about 50 miles south east of us. Apparently both boats had > decided to leave at about midnight to sail to the Turks and > Caicos. The winds were 20 to 30 and the seas 8 to 10 feet. > Catatudes raised their anchor, fouled the anchor line in > their propeller, and ended up on a reef which damaged their > boat enough so that they had to abandon her. They managed to > get to shore about a half mile away. > > The buddy boat 'Park Place' which had managed to up anchor and > get into deep water, turned around and tried to help them but > managed to damage her rudder on the reef so then had no > steering. Park Place put a temporary rudder in place and told, > via VHF radio, the couple from Catatudes, to walk about 5 miles > through unbroken scrub, woods and ponds and mangrove swamps, to > a beach on the other side of the uninhabited end of this island. > According to our charts the nearest road was about 15 miles away. > The Catatudes folks had a hand held VHF which had a range of > approximately 3 to 5 miles. Park Place would try to pick them up > on the beach. So they start walking with the intention of making > radio contact every half hour. > Park Place gets underway and discovers that she not only damaged > her steering but was taking on water faster than they could pump > it out. "HELP" > Now they end up on the reef and the boat is damaged even more, > enough so that those folks have to abandon ship. They radioed > that they were getting into their ding but were concerned as > they had been having problems with their outboard engine. > > Meantime HAM radio people are trying to get some help going in > their direction. BASRA (Bahamas Air Sea Rescue Association) was > working on another rescue and unavailable, US Coastguard had a > boat 180 miles away, and 2 broken helicopters. The local Capt. > Brown's Boys in Blue managed to get themselves together about > 11am and picked up a cruiser from the harbor and headed down > the coast in a 15 foot ding toward the area where Park Place was > sinking. Another cruising boat had to assemble (?) their ding > and go about 2 miles away to a large mega Yacht that had a big > powerful ding. The owner was not on board and the crew hesitant > to help but finally decided to do so. They took off in the 28 > foot launch at 1:30 in the afternoon with 5 people on board and > a hand held VHF. > Now we, and many other cruise boats in the Bahamas with HAM > radio, are in the dark with every half hour updates, passed > from Ham to VHF to HAM etc, with no news of any contact till > about 5:30 when the news came through that all people were > safe and on board the Mega yacht launch. At 6pm we heard first > hand the report from one of the rescue crew of the details of > the entire adventure. > So alls well that ends well, unfortunately both boats were > uninsured and both total losses but no loss of life and no > serious injuries. > | 10633|10633|2006-03-05 23:00:38|jericoera|flame spraying zinc|I am really curious to find out if anyone still flame sprays boats. Is it better than epoxy based paints? Carl M| 10634|10630|2006-03-06 00:10:28|kendall|Re: container living|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, SHANE ROTHWELL wrote: > > I bought two 20' containers for the move, now stuffed > with everything we own whilst we hunt for property (a > most frustrating process) & have been thinking of > building a house with them later....but for the > wife.... > > A couple of those big propane cylinders -you can buy > for scrap- would also make good sponsons & are sure > sturdy enuf. when floated (like when used as a > breakwater like at April point marina on the Island) > they float very high out of the water, indicative of > buoyancy.... > > cheap enuf too. Not to mention tough, a few years ago there was a flood here on the muskegon river, and tons of then things went floating downriver, a lot of rocks were smashed up by getting hit with them, one hit a retaining wall and knocked out a good 4' section, never saw anything but a slight dent on the tank. Must have been 2 dozen sitting on the bank under the bridge at bridgeton (imaginative name huh?) ken.| 10635|10631|2006-03-06 00:20:07|JD Erskine|Re: Portland pudgy|SHANE ROTHWELL wrote: >the sportyak & BIC (yes, made by the pen co) are great >little units, but as its made by either vacform & >ultrasonic welding the 2 halves together or rotaional >molding (like it appears the pudgy is made). > >all well & good, but that tough almost waxy feeling >plastic - usually polypropelene (sp) or polyethaline >is virtually impossible to fix..exept perhaps by >welding. might pay to see if they have samples of >material available & take them to your local plasic >welder to test em & put together a patch kit > Might try some ski/snowboard repair techniques and supplies. See the following for some ideas: http://www.tognar.com/base_repairs_tips_ski_snowboard.html P-tex as most skiers refer to it, is polyethylene. I used the repair sticks even in a shop repair environment (Calgary) from '93 to '96, since the ribbon, strings and techno stix were probably not yet available or we didn't know about them. Cheers, John 'JD' Erskine Victoria, BC| 10636|10630|2006-03-06 02:59:42|Puck III|Re: container living|Hi Ken , hi Shane , find hereunder a repost with some interesting comments and links about the container boat, that may be of interest . OB --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "kendall" wrote: > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, SHANE ROTHWELL > wrote: > > > > I bought two 20' containers for the move, now stuffed > > with everything we own whilst we hunt for property (a > > most frustrating process) & have been thinking of > > building a house with them later....but for the > > wife.... > > > > A couple of those big propane cylinders -you can buy > > for scrap- would also make good sponsons & are sure > > sturdy enuf. when floated (like when used as a > > breakwater like at April point marina on the Island) > > they float very high out of the water, indicative of > > buoyancy.... > > > > cheap enuf too. > > > Not to mention tough, a few years ago there was a flood here on the > muskegon river, and tons of then things went floating downriver, a lot > of rocks were smashed up by getting hit with them, one hit a retaining > wall and knocked out a good 4' section, never saw anything but a > slight dent on the tank. Must have been 2 dozen sitting on the bank > under the bridge at bridgeton (imaginative name huh?) > > ken. ============== --- In boatdesign@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III" wrote: > > Hi Doug , some comments between your lines . > > --- In boatdesign@yahoogroups.com, Doug Pollard wrote: > > > > This talk of container boats started me to thinking about > shipping > > my 20ft Elver or building a slightly smaller boat maybe more sea > worthy > > by container ship and going along as a passenger. > > http://www.geocities.com/freighterman.geo/mainmenu.html > is a fine link to look at some options. > Flying probably will end up cheaper . > Your 20' Elver on a trailor will be cheaper to transport > on a RORO vessel , than in a container . > Baltimore Antwerp will cost around $ 800. > > > Maybe I would fly > > depending on which ever is cheaper?? I'm on the east coast of the > USA > > so lets just say ship to Europe and cruise some canals and do a > little > > coastal cruising. When my travels were complete I might sell the > boat > > there or ship it back. Does any one have any idea what it costs > to > > ship and maybe go aboard the ship as a passenger?? The more I > think > > about this the more it appeals to me. I have done a fair amount of > > ocean sailing and that has lost it's appeal. It's just too > expensive and > > I'm too old to take that kind of beating these days. > > > > > Doug > > You could consider selling the Elver in the US first , > and buy a nice second hand boat in Europe , prices > are low in the off season , same as in the US. > That sure would be the option I would choose if > I wanted a long cruise in Florida or the Bahamas . > Plenty of small boats available for a cheap price . > To many options to choose from realy :-) > > When talking about containerboats , you can use > the container as > -a box to send your boat voyaging > -as a cabin that comes from small to large size > used as part of the boat [ eventualy as a land condo alone ] > -as the boathull itself > -as a load in or on a boat [ mono or multi ] > > Kind of difficult not to mix up everything . > We have to think out of the box :-) > > Old Ben > > > > Puck III wrote: > > > --- In boatdesign@yahoogroups.com, "Bruce Hallman" > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > A house setting on floatation boxes is not exactly a boat, in my > > > eyes at least. > > > > > > > > On 3/4/06, Puck III wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Container Boat Living has evolved a lot since August 2003 > > > > > http://tinyurl.com/rdq2c is a direct Link to a new Combo Pic > > > > > I uploaded also in Boatdesign2 : > > > ============= > > > You sure have a valid argument Bruce . See : > > > http://tinyurl.com/bshur > > > how easy and cheap a rough build can be :-) > > > for you to have the container in the boat ! > > > > > > For something more seaworthy , you could Google > > > for " Sailing Scow Trader " > > > they come in small and large sizes , > > > some even with a scooner rig :-) > > > > > > An ideal Option for a South American holiday home !! > > > Leave the container on a nice rented lot with a vieuw , > > > re-install the container on the sailboat if you > > > want to leave for another or better area. > > > > > > Used for fishing , daycruising or even for > > > adventure tours against cash , the boat on itself > > > without the container can generate some income , > > > Not all boats generate an income . > > > > > > Old Ben | 10637|10637|2006-03-06 03:07:43|edward_stoneuk|Propane cylinder stoves|Hi all, Here are some artistic looking stoves made from propane cylinders. www.hotcreations.co.uk/hotpod/hotpod.html Regards, Ted| 10638|10637|2006-03-06 05:20:47|sae140|Re: Propane cylinder stoves|Excellent link Ted ! saw these featured on the TV a couple of nights back - great to have a link to 'em. Colin --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "edward_stoneuk" wrote: > > Hi all, > > Here are some artistic looking stoves made from propane cylinders. > www.hotcreations.co.uk/hotpod/hotpod.html > > Regards, > Ted > | 10639|10628|2006-03-06 10:09:46|Denis Buggy|Re: volvo diesels|mike your take is correct and i have been preaching the value of a cast iron quality diesel for years as it is much cheaper by miles in the long run and you need not be a millionare to source them , currently a full engine kit for a volvo thd 101 is 1000 euros including gaskets for a 10 liter engine and mike is correct you can do them in situ. regards denis ----- Original Message ----- From: mkriley@... To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, March 05, 2006 5:00 PM Subject: Re: [origamiboats]volvo diesels I have been a boat repair person since the 70's and my take on volvo diesels are with the older md-x series md1 md2 etc. these are high quality marine diesels low rpm can be rebuilt in the boat, seperate heads and waterjacketed cylinders. low rpm. these were designed for commercial fishing and run forever and they are all cast iron. cons are very heavy for the hp, loud, vibration, and very expensive for parts in the us. all said I would take it over any automotive diesel conversion, these all do badly in the marine envirement as they are not designed for constant load and are maid of corrosive materials. mike To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS a.. Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web. b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 10640|10592|2006-03-06 12:34:44|NORMAN MOORE|Re: Stormy Weather|Brent, What about pivoting the hull pattern on the steel to raise the bulwark height forward and taper it back to 4" at the transom, leaving in effect the cabin top at the same height as original. That would improve the hulls ability to handle head seas. As I recall Robert Beebe said the same thing about Passagemaker, that raising the bulwark 10-12" would have improved that boats tendency to take on green water. silascrosby wrote: --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "richytill" wrote: > > Coming out of Howe Sound yesterday afternoon with 18+ knots of wet > wind/sleet. A joy be out there. This boat, "My Island" is really > stablecompared to the lighter racer cruiser types I have owned. I had > to wonder as we sailed along with one reef in, who has accounts of how > a BS 36 responds to Heavy weather conditions. If anyone has first hand > accounts of the behaviour/charecteristics of a BS 36 in such > conditions, I am sure some of us would appreciate hearing about it. > Thanks, rt > RT , That sounds like a great sail in classic Howe Sound winter weather. I hope you get time to sail up to Comox sometime for a visit. I grew up sailing around Howe Sound and area. We have had Silas Crosby out in some good blows ,inshore and offshore. No survival storms but several gales. I have only been worried when I have been late in reducing sail. I have been most uncomfortable when I have been too lazy to get sail back up after a blow. The boat has few vices , in my unbiased opinion (go ahead, ask Brent). When reaching in good seas the flattish area amidships below the chine will occasionally take a direct wave strike and the sound is as if we have hit a 2 ' diameter deadhead. A major 'BONG'. The wavetop smashes up and over the boat ( revealing a wet disadvantage of a centre cockpit and an advantage of the pilothouse and aluminum dodger) Close reaching in more than 25 knots needs close attention to sail trim to keep her moving well through rough head seas. Often the bow punches into the seas with lots of water on the foredeck. The anchor needs to be very well secured to avoid loud banging on the hull ( and damage). I have certainly had green water up over the forehatch but not as far as the pilothouse ( even with ours being farther forward than most). I wonder if a steel mast might drive the bow deeper in a head sea with the greater momentum when pitching. Elsewhere I have described heaving-to in the Pacific 10 days out from Mexico enroute to Hawaii. We were uncomfortable on a beam reach and the movement was violent as the wind increased one night. The wind vane was over powered and even with 3 reefs in the main and a staysail we needed to do something. With the small main strapped down and no foresail the helm was lashed down. I removed the wind vane and laid it in the cockpit ( a single butterfly nut to undo) as it was making a hell of a racket with vibration in the strong wind. I went below. The boat rode sweetly ~ 45 - 50 degrees off the wind moving < 1 knot by GPS. I was happy. The kids were asleep and Barb was reading. I suppose that if the wind had persisted we would need to change tactics as the seas grew. I have a parachute but no series drogue (yet). The wind eased off after a few hours and we carried on at 6 or 7 knots in relative 'comfort'.( It is a small boat at sea - comfort?) Generally the boat is initially tender and early reefing is our rule. It is easy to sail around on our ear but not too swift. We keep the lee rail out of the water. We have not been knocked down or broached (yet). Certainly ,I get a LOT more pleasure from sailing this boat than I did from the 2 yr 4 mo. building job. I could go on and on about the GREAT sailing we have had on this boat , light winds and strong ,in the Gulf or offshore. Some of my best sails have been coming back to Comox from Lasqueti in strong SE or NW. Either a bad weather run down the middle to Comox Bar bell bouy or a close wet reach into the lee of Hornby Is. where the we always get lifted and can make Chrome Is. on one tack I have not been out much on the boat this winter because the back- country skiing has been so good but I am starting to get a bit itchy for a short cruise. Are you in Gibsons ? Steve Millar To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com SPONSORED LINKS British columbia canada Vancouver island Yacht --------------------------------- YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. --------------------------------- Norm Moore 559-645-5314 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]| 10641|10592|2006-03-06 13:50:35|tom|Re: Stormy Weather|My two cents on the subject Adding to the bulwark might help a little but 3/16" plate is 7-1/2 pounds a square foot therefore adding to the bulwark would add more weight to high and forward. Seems to me we want to keep as much weight out of the ends of the boat and keep it low as possible. If the seas are that steep that your plunging the bow under, changing you're angle of attack to the wave 30-40% would be the most beneficial Tom ----- Original Message ----- From: "NORMAN MOORE" To: Sent: Monday, March 06, 2006 9:34 AM Subject: Re: [origamiboats] Re: Stormy Weather > Brent, What about pivoting the hull pattern on the steel to raise the > bulwark height forward and taper it back to 4" at the transom, leaving in > effect the cabin top at the same height as original. That would improve > the hulls ability to handle head seas. As I recall Robert Beebe said the > same thing about Passagemaker, that raising the bulwark 10-12" would have > improved that boats tendency to take on green water. > | 10642|10642|2006-03-06 15:15:04|kingsknight4life|Rich, I sent you an e-mail a few days ago & I was wonering if you g|Thanks Rowland| 10643|10592|2006-03-06 15:50:55|tom|Stormy Weather|On the other end, a boat that wont plunge through a wave like my merit 23, if you hit a steep wave straight on it will pound and come to a complete stop and by the second wave you're in trouble, no steering, scrambling to release sails, ext. but if hit the same wave at 45% angle the boat goes right over with no problem, surf down the back side and have fun. I guess what I'm trying to say is we need to learn the boat and what it will take, just a couple % one way or the other can make all the difference Tom [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]| 10644|10630|2006-03-06 23:03:44|Puck III|Re: container living|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "kendall" wrote: > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, SHANE ROTHWELL > wrote: > > > > I bought two 20' containers for the move, now stuffed > > with everything we own whilst we hunt for property (a > > most frustrating process) & have been thinking of > > building a house with them later....but for the > > wife.... > > > > A couple of those big propane cylinders -you can buy > > for scrap- would also make good sponsons & are sure > > sturdy enuf. when floated (like when used as a > > breakwater like at April point marina on the Island) > > they float very high out of the water, indicative of > > buoyancy.... > > > > cheap enuf too. > > > Not to mention tough, a few years ago there was a flood here on the > muskegon river, and tons of then things went floating downriver, a lot > of rocks were smashed up by getting hit with them, one hit a retaining > wall and knocked out a good 4' section, never saw anything but a > slight dent on the tank. Must have been 2 dozen sitting on the bank > under the bridge at bridgeton (imaginative name huh?) > > ken. ============== Just a repost with an interesting Link http://www.m-house.org/ the price and equipment is very UK , sure all this can be build on a budget! OB ============== --- In boatdesign@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III" wrote: > > More about modern Living in , > near or on the water , > interesting to have a look into ?? > Just wondering ! > Old Ben > > just have a look at an interesting repost : > ========== > --- In mouseboats@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III" wrote: > > > > Does this big m-house belongs to the Int. Mouse Group ? > > http://www.m-house.org/ > > on pontoonfloats ? > > a Catam-house ? > > just an idea :-) > > Old Ben > ========== | 10645|10645|2006-03-07 14:47:14|SHANE ROTHWELL|Container living|Hey Old Ben, Did you notice the prices they want for 1000' of bldg in http://www.m-house.org/. 147,800 quid! that's about CDN$300 per square foot. they don't ask much do they?? Harry Barnum was right! There IS a sucker born every minute! I paid about $3600 each for my 20' containers. 40' containers would be about $3800 including all taxes. Most builders in Canada are charging $125-150 per square foot. I figure I could do it for aobut $50/foot. A friend who has much more experince than I figures he can build a house for $35/sq foot but he's the best scrounge/horse trader on the planet. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com| 10646|10645|2006-03-07 15:49:27|Puck III|Re: Container living|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, SHANE ROTHWELL wrote: > > Hey Old Ben, > > Did you notice the prices they want for 1000' of bldg > in http://www.m-house.org/. 147,800 quid! that's about > CDN$300 per square foot. they don't ask much do they?? > Harry Barnum was right! There IS a sucker born every > minute! > > I paid about $3600 each for my 20' containers. 40' > containers would be about $3800 including all taxes. > > Most builders in Canada are charging $125-150 per > square foot. I figure I could do it for aobut > $50/foot. A friend who has much more experince than I > figures he can build a house for $35/sq foot but he's > the best scrounge/horse trader on the planet. ============== Sure Shane , my answer was allready in that post :-) "the price and equipment is very UK , sure all this can be build on a budget! OB" http://www.tumbleweedhouses.com/houses.htm a link posted earlyer for you to see how simple all can be build , same to outfit a boat ! I looked up some schooner + catscow sailboats , cheap and easy to build in Origami steel for those who prefer to install the container in a boat , rather than on floats . W.Garden , P.Bolgher , Ruel Parker ,G.Beuhler and Pete Culler designed . Small and larger , for all budgets :-) If I am not mistaken you can buy a 3 bedroom , 2 bathrooms , garage ,swimmingpool and land included condo for that price....in South Africa , not in the high priced parts of the UK :-)| 10647|10645|2006-03-07 18:19:20|kendall|Re: Container living|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, SHANE ROTHWELL wrote: > > Hey Old Ben, > > Did you notice the prices they want for 1000' of bldg > in http://www.m-house.org/. 147,800 quid! that's about > CDN$300 per square foot. they don't ask much do they?? > Harry Barnum was right! There IS a sucker born every > minute! > > I paid about $3600 each for my 20' containers. 40' > containers would be about $3800 including all taxes. > > Most builders in Canada are charging $125-150 per > square foot. I figure I could do it for aobut > $50/foot. A friend who has much more experince than I > figures he can build a house for $35/sq foot but he's > the best scrounge/horse trader on the planet. > > I looked at that and can't help thinking mobile home. Odds are someone will buy them though. ken.| 10648|10645|2006-03-08 05:49:13|edward_stoneuk|Re: Container living|Ken, Yes it is a mobile home or caravan. It says so on the web site. It has a small set of wheels which exempts it from some UK planning laws. All UK houses seem expensive to me, probably because they are. The m-house does come fully finished, furnished and detailed with kitchen appliances and so on. The design team, listed on the web site includes a visiting professor at Yale. Do the Canadian house build prices include full furnishing and a visiting professor? Regards, Ted| 10649|10649|2006-03-08 10:50:51|mickeyolaf|Upcoming Marine Swap Meets|For anyone interested there are three Pacific Northwest marine swap meets this spring. 1. April 8 @ 0700 @ Seattle in the parking lot at Gas Works park. 2. April 23rd @ Victoria @ 0830. 3. May 6 @ Point Roberts. If you look in 48 North magazine you will see the details. What I have found previously at the Seattle Meet? New blocks for $5.00. New seat pedestal with slider for $5.00. New SS pressure cooker for $15.00. Teak tables, fenders, pigtails, rope, SS antenna mounts, Windex, and on and on. A large portion of my boat will be new items bought at swap meets. Last year I bought 6 new G5 fenders. See you there.| 10650|10650|2006-03-08 11:48:44|mickeyolaf|Mast Heights|Brent, I've been talking to a couple of mast builders and this subject of height always comes up. With my boat being aluminum and my mast being aluminum could I go up to 50 feet? I have 5010 lbs of lead in the keel and about 200 gallons of fuel. Five different tanks for water low in the boat and seven batteries sitting on the keel cover plate. I also have a seventy gallon holding tank. Even with the tanks empty the ballast and batteries and engine are 6000 lbs. I know you said that 51' would be tender but is that for a steel boat with a steel mast? The Forespar mast tube comes in 50' lengths and I don't want to cut off 3' if it would not effect stability. I have also raised the Pilothouse 12" which has raised the boom higher up the mast so I will have less mainsail area than a Swain 36 built according to plan. Thanks for thinking about this for me. For anyone who is interested I have received a number of quotes from mast builders for an complete aluminum mast and boom for the Swain 36. $13,500.00 CDN is the highest with $7800.00 US(plus $800 US shipping San Fran to Vancouver and $250 US to put it in a tube)being the lowest. They are all saying aluminum keeps going up. One sent me a quote then a separate letter raising the quote $891 to account for aluminum going up.| 10651|10651|2006-03-08 12:01:56|mickeyolaf|Booms|US Spars has a web site advertising special deals. (Google them)They have complete finished booms ready to bolt up to the mast for $350.00. The longest they have right now is 15 feet long. The Z480 section boom is suitable for the Swain 36. Any of you building smaller Swains there are also mast sections available. There is a complete aluminum mast with all fittings and double spreaders 35' long for $600.00 US.| 10652|10645|2006-03-08 12:22:05|kendall|Re: Container living|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "edward_stoneuk" wrote: > > Ken, > Yes it is a mobile home or caravan. It says so on the web site. It > has a small set of wheels which exempts it from some UK planning > laws. All UK houses seem expensive to me, probably because they are. > The m-house does come fully finished, furnished and detailed with > kitchen appliances and so on. The design team, listed on the web site > includes a visiting professor at Yale. Do the Canadian house build > prices include full furnishing and a visiting professor? > Regards, > Ted > Can't see spending that much on a doublewide. I see nothing on the site that would indicate it's worth at half the cost posted earlier. Mobile homes can be purchased fully furnished, and all come with appliances. If the 'house' is well designed, why should you ever NEED a visiting professor? some of it's 'features' were dropped in the US mobile home market because of reliability issues, flat roofs have serious longevity issues, metal flat roofs, are just as bad if not worse, and metal siding is not user friendly. Lowcost is great, but that is not lowcost. Ken.| 10653|10653|2006-03-08 13:20:15|breach_mark|Celestial Navigation|As a fellow sailor who travels far (?) you might be interested in my book Celestial Navigation when your GPS fails! Details at the websites of publisher http://www.trafford.com/4dcgi/view-item?item=6295 author http://www.markbreach.co.uk/celestial_navigation.htm or amazon.com http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1412026679/sr=8-1/qid=1141644449/ref=sr\ _1_1/002-6256033-5532041?%5Fencoding=UTF8 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]| 10654|10651|2006-03-08 13:37:45|tom|Re: Booms|Thanks for the heads up, thats a pretty cheap price for a complete mast. Ive seen some online as high as $39 foot for bare pole and that was for a smaller boat. Im still a long ways off from needing a mast so Im keeping all options open and just keeping an eye out for a good used one. I still like the idea of a steel mast on a steel boat but first I need to find out what a 3" x 4-1/2" solid sitka spruce mast would weigh per lenial foot Tom ----- Original Message ----- From: "mickeyolaf" To: Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2006 9:00 AM Subject: [origamiboats] Booms > US Spars has a web site advertising special deals. (Google them)They > have complete finished booms ready to bolt up to the mast for $350.00. > The longest they have right now is 15 feet long. The Z480 section boom > is suitable for the Swain 36. Any of you building smaller Swains there > are also mast sections available. There is a complete aluminum mast > with all fittings and double spreaders 35' long for $600.00 US. > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > | 10656|10645|2006-03-08 14:30:55|edward_stoneuk|Re: Container living|Ken, I agree. I wouldn't dream of buying one. Flat roofs are very difficult to keep from leaking. Regards, Ted --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "kendall" wrote: > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "edward_stoneuk" > wrote: > > > > Ken, > > Yes it is a mobile home or caravan. It says so on the web site. It > > has a small set of wheels which exempts it from some UK planning > > laws. All UK houses seem expensive to me, probably because they are. > > The m-house does come fully finished, furnished and detailed with > > kitchen appliances and so on. The design team, listed on the web site > > includes a visiting professor at Yale. Do the Canadian house build > > prices include full furnishing and a visiting professor? > > Regards, > > Ted > > > > > Can't see spending that much on a doublewide. > I see nothing on the site that would indicate it's worth at half the > cost posted earlier. Mobile homes can be purchased fully furnished, > and all come with appliances. > > If the 'house' is well designed, why should you ever NEED a visiting > professor? > > some of it's 'features' were dropped in the US mobile home market > because of reliability issues, flat roofs have serious longevity > issues, metal flat roofs, are just as bad if not worse, and metal > siding is not user friendly. > > Lowcost is great, but that is not lowcost. > > Ken. > | 10657|10650|2006-03-08 16:44:44|Charles Sollitt|Re: Mast Heights|Origamers, I have a 14 ft spruce box boom, with an aluminum track and 316 SS fittings, from my BS 36 which I replaced with a 16.5 ft Yachttech boom. The box spar is located in Genoa bay, has never been used, and is available to the highest bidder (no bidders to date). I'll be back in Genoa Bay in late May and would be happy to show it to all interested parties. Chuck Sollitt _____ From: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com [mailto:origamiboats@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of kingsknight4life Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2006 10:58 AM To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Mast Heights Mickey I can't remeber if I ever got back to you with the boom lenght. It is suppossed to be 14 feet long. Rowland To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com SPONSORED LINKS British columbia canada Vancouver island Yacht _____ YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS * Visit your group "origamiboats " on the web. * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service . _____ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]| 10658|10650|2006-03-08 18:23:25|mickeyolaf|Re: Mast Heights|Is 16.5' the length that Yachttech felt was the correct length for your boat or was it one of their booms off the rack so to speak? Did they measure your boat and then come up with that length? I know that there is a very complicated formula of centers of effort and balance etc and an increase or decrease in mast height will effect boom length etc. What is your off the deck mast height? --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Charles Sollitt" wrote: > > Origamers, > > I have a 14 ft spruce box boom, with an aluminum track and 316 SS > fittings, from my BS 36 which I replaced with a 16.5 ft Yachttech boom. The > box spar is located in Genoa bay, has never been used, and is available to > the highest bidder (no bidders to date). I'll be back in Genoa Bay in late > May and would be happy to show it to all interested parties. > > Chuck Sollitt > > _____ > > From: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com [mailto:origamiboats@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of kingsknight4life > Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2006 10:58 AM > To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Mast Heights > > > Mickey > I can't remeber if I ever got back to you with the boom lenght. It is > suppossed to be 14 feet long. > Rowland > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > > SPONSORED LINKS > British > mbia+canada&w2=Vancouver+island&w3=Yacht&c=3&s=62&.sig=Q4lYYtlNW0FQO4 4ezC2G3 > Q> columbia canada Vancouver > nada&w2=Vancouver+island&w3=Yacht&c=3&s=62&.sig=TVvK0pZk9dkmygRA0hegN w> > island Yacht > couver+island&w3=Yacht&c=3&s=62&.sig=lCcJSZ2V25esT9G6EcjB6g> > > _____ > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > > > * Visit your group "origamiboats > " on the web. > > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service > . > > > _____ > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > | 10659|10659|2006-03-09 01:08:39|Barry Gorman|Fw: [origamiboats] Re: Container living|Subject: Re: [origamiboats] Re: Container living Edward, Not Hard If You Fit A Slightly Sloping Roof 6 Inches Above , It Also Makes The Unit Cooler in Hot Weather , Called TROPICAL Roofs Used on Caravans Etc. Barry Gorman Hunter Valley NSW AUSTRALIA BarryandPamGorman@... ----- Original Message ----- From: edward_stoneuk To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 6:29 AM Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Container living Ken, I agree. I wouldn't dream of buying one. Flat roofs are very difficult to keep from leaking. Regards, Ted --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "kendall" wrote: SPONSORED LINKS British columbia canada Vancouver island Yacht ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS a.. Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web. b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 10660|10659|2006-03-09 05:22:03|Puck III|Fw: [origamiboats] Re: Container living|Hi Barry , thanks for your positive comment! I could not resist uploading a new pic in the photosection here : -- Sailing Scow Container Option -- why not on an Origami Scow with Dancing terras roof Option All options are open realy . The night dancing party you see is in a Louisiana Swamp : Cajun steak , rear with some spicy red wine . The "Arcadie Spirit" today :-) I know the same spirit exists down under also . Cheers Old Ben --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Barry Gorman" wrote: > > > Subject: Re: [origamiboats] Re: Container living > > > > Edward, > > Not Hard If You Fit A Slightly Sloping Roof 6 Inches Above , > > It Also Makes The Unit Cooler in Hot Weather , > > Called TROPICAL Roofs Used on Caravans Etc. > > Barry Gorman > Hunter Valley NSW AUSTRALIA > BarryandPamGorman@... > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: edward_stoneuk > To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 6:29 AM > Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Container living > > > Ken, > I agree. I wouldn't dream of buying one. Flat roofs are very > difficult to keep from leaking. > Regards, > Ted > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "kendall" wrote: > > > > SPONSORED LINKS British columbia canada Vancouver island Yacht > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------- > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > a.. Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web. > > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------- > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > | 10661|6257|2006-03-09 06:37:54|helmut_schlager|Re: Trailerable boats & special trailor :-)|hi all desperatly seeking for trailerable small liveaboard motorcruiser origamistyle building plans. -- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III" wrote: > > > I posted 2 pics in the " Ben's Stuff" Folder in Photos > The boat that trailor was designed for is 33' x 10'5" > The Swain 26' is trailerable but I wonder if the same > swing would make the 31' trailerable ? > Worth to look into ? Somebody just has to make > a square around the mastersection and tell us :-) > Anyway if one wanted to design & build a motorboat > like the Culler 24' in the Origami fashion be it in > wood , steel or aluminum I think this trailor system > allows to trail a wider boat , you could level her for > living on the road or overwintering in your garden:-) > Anybody any interest in a trailerable small liveaboard > motorcruiser in the Group? > Old Ben > | 10662|10650|2006-03-09 14:45:25|Charles Sollitt|Re: Mast Heights|I specified the 16.5 ft boom length to Yachttech to accommodate the 15.5 ft foot length in the BS designed mainsail. Also, 16.5 ft will just clear my backstays when the boom is raised high enough to be perpendicular to the backstays (the shortest distance from the gooseneck to the backstays). My SS mast height is 46 ft above the deck. Chuck Sollitt _____ From: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com [mailto:origamiboats@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of mickeyolaf Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2006 3:23 PM To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Mast Heights Is 16.5' the length that Yachttech felt was the correct length for your boat or was it one of their booms off the rack so to speak? Did they measure your boat and then come up with that length? I know that there is a very complicated formula of centers of effort and balance etc and an increase or decrease in mast height will effect boom length etc. What is your off the deck mast height? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]| 10663|10659|2006-03-09 17:17:41|edward_stoneuk|Fw: [origamiboats] Re: Container living|> Edward, > > Not Hard If You Fit A Slightly Sloping Roof 6 Inches Above , > > It Also Makes The Unit Cooler in Hot Weather , > > Called TROPICAL Roofs Used on Caravans Etc. > > Barry Gorman > Hunter Valley NSW AUSTRALIA > BarryandPamGorman@... Barry, Another way would be to jack up one side of the building to make the roof slope. It would be a bit like living in a boat on a long tack. Every now and again you could shout "Ready about?" to Pam and on the correct response run outside let the jacks down, shout "lee ho!" and then jack up the other side. You live in a nice part of the world. About 36 years ago I drove from Sydney up the old Great North Road across Wisemans Ferry, through Wollombi and Cessnock to Newcastle. Lovely country, though I didn't get as far as the vineyards. Maybe next time. I lost my wallet on that trip, a light brown full size leather one with my NSW crane drivers ticket in it. If you ever find it please drop me an email. Regards, Ted aka Edward| 10664|10630|2006-03-09 18:02:43|brentswain38|Re: container living|Tell the wife you can make them totally immune to burglaries, earthquakes , hurricanes ( if you are on high ground)and far more fire resistant than any other kind of home.She can sleep well if she is ever home alone in one. Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "kendall" wrote: > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, SHANE ROTHWELL > wrote: > > > > I bought two 20' containers for the move, now stuffed > > with everything we own whilst we hunt for property (a > > most frustrating process) & have been thinking of > > building a house with them later....but for the > > wife.... > > > > A couple of those big propane cylinders -you can buy > > for scrap- would also make good sponsons & are sure > > sturdy enuf. when floated (like when used as a > > breakwater like at April point marina on the Island) > > they float very high out of the water, indicative of > > buoyancy.... > > > > cheap enuf too. > > > Not to mention tough, a few years ago there was a flood here on the > muskegon river, and tons of then things went floating downriver, a lot > of rocks were smashed up by getting hit with them, one hit a retaining > wall and knocked out a good 4' section, never saw anything but a > slight dent on the tank. Must have been 2 dozen sitting on the bank > under the bridge at bridgeton (imaginative name huh?) > > ken. > | 10665|10628|2006-03-09 18:06:09|brentswain38|Re: volvo diesels|It's the older Volvos that were so much trouble. Things keep quiting on them on a regular basis .A friend found one for $500, believing he could set her right for little more. He ended up paying the price of a new diesel of a proper brand, at it bit and pieced his money away. Eventually he ended up scraping it and buying a new diesel of a proper brand.This is a very common story. Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Denis Buggy" wrote: > > mike your take is correct and i have been preaching the value of a cast iron quality diesel for years as it is much cheaper by miles in the long run and you need not be a millionare to source them , currently a full engine kit for a volvo thd 101 is 1000 euros including gaskets for a 10 liter engine and mike is correct you can do them in situ. regards denis > ----- Original Message ----- > From: mkriley@... > To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Sunday, March 05, 2006 5:00 PM > Subject: Re: [origamiboats]volvo diesels > > > I have been a boat repair person since the 70's and my take on volvo diesels > are with the older md-x series md1 md2 etc. > these are high quality marine diesels low rpm can be rebuilt in the boat, seperate heads and waterjacketed cylinders. low rpm. these were designed for commercial fishing and run forever and they are all cast iron. cons are very heavy for the hp, loud, vibration, and very expensive for parts in the us. all said I would take it over any automotive diesel conversion, these all do badly in the marine envirement as they are not designed for constant load and are maid of corrosive materials. > mike > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats- unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------- > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > a.. Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web. > > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------- > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > | 10667|10667|2006-03-09 22:07:28|dove2steel|wet vs dry exhaust|i'm considering eliminating my wet exhaust in favor of dry. Is there any advantage to having the former? I have a Yanmar 2qm20. The change would allow me to eliminate a jabsco. One less thing to worry about? Thank you in advance Al| 10668|10659|2006-03-09 22:56:03|Jon & Wanda(Tink)|Fw: [origamiboats] Re: Container living|Funny story about container living. There was a Company from Califonia that built some apartments down the street from me here in Vancouver Wa. USA about 10 years ago. They set up a bounch of containers with bunk beds for the Mexican workers they brought up with them. They lived in them till the first apartment units where done. Sad but true. Jon| 10669|10659|2006-03-10 03:26:10|edward_stoneuk|Fw: [origamiboats] Re: Container living|Containers converted to offices are quite common in the UK on landfill sites and the like with windows and doors cut into the appropriate place and steel shutters over the windows. They are insulated and fitted with plumbing, electrics, insulation and sometimes air conditioning. I lived in similar portacabins when I worked on construction sites in North West Australia; two to a room, 4 rooms to a 40' unit and air conditioned. They never leaked but then it never rained. Regards, Ted| 10670|6257|2006-03-10 04:36:34|Puck III|-- MonoCat -- +Re: Trailerable boats & special trailor :-)|Hi Helmut , you should write to Brent Swain and ask if the mastersection of the BS 31' fits the 2,5m sqaire measurement when canteled ,if that is the reason pointing to my previous post . The secondhand boat market has a lot to offer realy . Posting a detailed designgoal or wishlist would help anybody wanting to help a desperatly seeking person :-) If you are looking to build something new , you may as well have a look at a new Pic I posted: See: Photo Albums > -- MonoCat -- Tell us all about you and your project. Old Ben --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "helmut_schlager" wrote: > > hi all > > desperatly seeking for trailerable small liveaboard > motorcruiser origamistyle building plans. > > > -- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III" wrote: > > > > > > I posted 2 pics in the " Ben's Stuff" Folder in Photos > > The boat that trailor was designed for is 33' x 10'5" > > The Swain 26' is trailerable but I wonder if the same > > swing would make the 31' trailerable ? > > Worth to look into ? Somebody just has to make > > a square around the mastersection and tell us :-) > > Anyway if one wanted to design & build a motorboat > > like the Culler 24' in the Origami fashion be it in > > wood , steel or aluminum I think this trailor system > > allows to trail a wider boat , you could level her for > > living on the road or overwintering in your garden:-) > > Anybody any interest in a trailerable small liveaboard > > motorcruiser in the Group? > > Old Ben > > > | 10671|10671|2006-03-10 09:29:32|carlvolkwein|something all yahoo groupe members should know.|A friend recently sent me an e-mail about something called web beacons. yahoo is useing "web beacons" to track all groupe members, yes it's true, just go to privasy statment, then look down the left side for web beacon, click on it then click on opt out, then DON'T click reverse opt out or something like that, then you're free. Web beacons are like cookies, and used to track you AFTER you leave the groupe, to see what you're reading after yahoo, other sites, groupes etc. just take a look and see for yourself. carl from W.V.| 10672|10667|2006-03-10 09:51:32|Carl Volkwein|Re: wet vs dry exhaust|Hi Al, The dry exhaust will be hotter than the wet exhaust, probably only affecting where it goes through the hull, but also anywhere it comes close to anything flamable. Also it would tend to be louder, as the water acts as a mufler. Carl from W.V. dove2steel wrote: i'm considering eliminating my wet exhaust in favor of dry. Is there any advantage to having the former? I have a Yanmar 2qm20. The change would allow me to eliminate a jabsco. One less thing to worry about? Thank you in advance Al To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com SPONSORED LINKS British columbia canada Vancouver island Yacht --------------------------------- YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. --------------------------------- --------------------------------- Yahoo! Mail Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]| 10673|10667|2006-03-10 19:47:38|brentswain38|Re: wet vs dry exhaust|Wet exhuasts are a major source of engine problems.They are no cooler than a dry exhuast properly insulated. A friend rusted out two engines since 98 with wet exhuasts . Go dry. Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Carl Volkwein wrote: > > Hi Al, > > The dry exhaust will be hotter than the wet exhaust, probably only affecting where it goes through the hull, but also anywhere it comes close to anything flamable. Also it would tend to be louder, as the water acts as a mufler. > Carl from W.V. > > dove2steel wrote: > i'm considering eliminating my wet exhaust in favor of dry. > Is there any advantage to having the former? I have a Yanmar 2qm20. > The change would allow me to eliminate a jabsco. One less thing to > worry about? > Thank you in advance > Al > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats- unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > SPONSORED LINKS > British columbia canada Vancouver island Yacht > > --------------------------------- > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > > Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > > --------------------------------- > > > > > > --------------------------------- > Yahoo! Mail > Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > | 10674|10667|2006-03-10 20:33:49|brentswain38|Re: wet vs dry exhaust|I've used nothing but dry exhuasts for the last 30 years.It's easy to make them up out of sch 40 stainless with all the bends in before installing. I use 1 1/4 ss pipe unions welded to 1 1/2 pipe as they have the same ID, for connectors. Wrap the pipe with pink fibreglass house insulation, then foil, then 3 inch wide muffler tape. This can be smeared with silicone caulking which is very heat resistant.On new boats I weld in flush an ss plate where it goes thru the transom so there is no direct heat on the paint job. A diesel repair mechanic in Port Townshend said " If everyone went for keel cooling and dry exhuast, we in the repair business would all be out of work." Maybe this is why they so often advocate wet exhuasts and heat exchangers, to ensure future employment. Brent -- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "brentswain38" wrote: > > Wet exhuasts are a major source of engine problems.They are no cooler > than a dry exhuast properly insulated. A friend rusted out two > engines since 98 with wet exhuasts . Go dry. > Brent > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Carl Volkwein > wrote: > > > > Hi Al, > > > > The dry exhaust will be hotter than the wet exhaust, probably > only affecting where it goes through the hull, but also anywhere it > comes close to anything flamable. Also it would tend to be louder, as > the water acts as a mufler. > > Carl from W.V. > > > > dove2steel wrote: > > i'm considering eliminating my wet exhaust in favor of dry. > > Is there any advantage to having the former? I have a Yanmar > 2qm20. > > The change would allow me to eliminate a jabsco. One less thing > to > > worry about? > > Thank you in advance > > Al > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats- > unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > SPONSORED LINKS > > British columbia canada Vancouver island Yacht > > > > --------------------------------- > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > > > > > Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web. > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > Service. > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > Yahoo! Mail > > Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze. > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > | 10675|10675|2006-03-11 13:31:13|Gerd|Ultimate origami|I have always insisted that origami is defined by the darts. Well, I have just been proven wrong, an by none other than YM Tanton. For the absolute ultimate simplicity in origami construction have a look at http://www.boatdesign.net/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/4711/cat/500/ppus er/9830 Just a single, rectangular sheet without any cuts at all... Je vous salue Mr Tanton!! Gerd The Yago project at http://www.justmueller.com/boats/| 10676|10675|2006-03-11 13:34:06|ymt@tantonyachts.com|Re: Ultimate origami|En vous remerciant. Y-M T -----Original Message----- From: Gerd To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sat, 11 Mar 2006 18:30:31 -0000 Subject: [origamiboats] Ultimate origami I have always insisted that origami is defined by the darts. Well, I have just been proven wrong, an by none other than YM Tanton. For the absolute ultimate simplicity in origami construction have a look at http://www.boatdesign.net/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/4711/cat/500/ppus er/9830 Just a single, rectangular sheet without any cuts at all... Je vous salue Mr Tanton!! Gerd The Yago project at http://www.justmueller.com/boats/ To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]| 10677|10675|2006-03-11 17:27:38|brentswain38|Re: Ultimate origami|To create such a shape without cuts would be geometrically impossible. Such a wide stern would make the boat uncontrolable downwind in any but light conditions and would have absolutely no directional stability. Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, ymt@... wrote: > > En vous remerciant. > Y-M T > > -----Original Message----- > From: Gerd > To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Sat, 11 Mar 2006 18:30:31 -0000 > Subject: [origamiboats] Ultimate origami > > > I have always insisted that origami is defined by the darts. Well, I > have just been proven wrong, an by none other than YM Tanton. > For the absolute ultimate simplicity in origami construction have a > look at > http://www.boatdesign.net/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/4711/cat/500/ppu s > er/9830 > > Just a single, rectangular sheet without any cuts at all... Je vous > salue Mr Tanton!! > > > Gerd > The Yago project at http://www.justmueller.com/boats/ > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats- unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > | 10678|10675|2006-03-11 18:14:23|Gerd|Re: Ultimate origami|Brent, have a second look, it's really a straight rectangular sheet that is folded on itself over the short side for the bow, the perimeter of the transom seems to have just twice the length of the stem: it's simply the border of the other short end of the plate. With the pronounced diving sheerline it's exactly what you get when you fold a sheet of paper. There is no cut at all, not even for the sheerline. Even the flat at the bottom of the transom is just two creases in the sheet. That's actually quite a neat trick to get a bit of volume out of the aft end and to raise the bottom of the transom just above the waterline. Is this a good hull? Of course your shape possibilities are limited to say the least with this approach, but even in this simplest form it is not that far from, say, a typical mini 650 shape, and although those hulls have very little directional stability as cruisers understand it, that does not keep them from surfing across oceans. A shape like that could go very fast in certain conditions - different boats for different programs. Anyway, I suspect that design is a bit of a tongue-in-cheek excercise ;-) but could be really good fun to try on a smaller hull. Gerd the Yago Project at http://www.justmueller.com/boats/ --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "brentswain38" wrote: > > To create such a shape without cuts would be geometrically > impossible. Such a wide stern would make the boat uncontrolable > downwind in any but light conditions and would have absolutely no > directional stability. > Brent > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, ymt@ wrote: > > > > En vous remerciant. > > Y-M T > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Gerd > > To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Sat, 11 Mar 2006 18:30:31 -0000 > > Subject: [origamiboats] Ultimate origami > > > > > > I have always insisted that origami is defined by the darts. Well, > I > > have just been proven wrong, an by none other than YM Tanton. > > For the absolute ultimate simplicity in origami construction have a > > look at > > > http://www.boatdesign.net/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/4711/cat/500/pp u > s > > er/9830 > > > > Just a single, rectangular sheet without any cuts at all... Je vous > > salue Mr Tanton!! > > > > > > Gerd > > The Yago project at http://www.justmueller.com/boats/ > > > > > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats- > unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > | 10679|10667|2006-03-11 22:09:37|mickeyolaf|Re: wet vs dry exhaust|The exhaust pipe from my Yanmar goes into a box which contains two mufflers and then continues again after the box as an exhaust pipe inside a pipe. Y'd into the exhaust just aft of the engine and before the box is a 10,000 hour blower blowing cold air first into the box surrounding the mufflers and then subsequently down the space between the pipes to exit via the transom. Forced air exhaust cooling. The blower is turned on before the engine start and runs for a few minutes after shutdown to cool the box and pipes. No salt water in the system. The engine is cooled via a fresh water skeg cooler as per Swain design. I saw a Perkins in a homebuilt 40' steel boat cooled this way so I can't claim it is an original idea. The downside is a constantly running blower and if the blower is out I would expect the box and pipes to get more than somewhat hot. I plan to carry a spare blower. The ITT blower I bought claims a 10,000 hour life at 250 cubic feet per minute. Two four inch pipes bring fresh air into the engine room for the engine and are also used to intake air to cool the exhaust. The engine room is always cold due to the blower inhaling and exhausting the engine room air. This should also help keep the alternators cool. The intake 4' pipes run up both corners of the pilothouse to just below the top where there are covered inlets. I am going to have to put some kind of screen at the inlets or I am sure to have wasp nests in the pipes. I have heard so many tales of salt water cooling systems ruining engines I didn't want to install one and I also didn't want any saltwater period in the boat. I will put up with the blower and have installed extra insulation for the sound. --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "dove2steel" wrote: > > i'm considering eliminating my wet exhaust in favor of dry. > Is there any advantage to having the former? I have a Yanmar 2qm20. > The change would allow me to eliminate a jabsco. One less thing to > worry about? > Thank you in advance > Al > | 10680|10675|2006-03-12 14:00:37|woodcraftssuch|Re: Ultimate origami|Gerd, Are you saying the whole hull can be 1 rectangular sheet? If that's so, how can the length of the stem be less than half the beam, not even including the sides? Sam --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Gerd" wrote: > > Brent, have a second look, it's really a straight rectangular sheet > that is folded on itself over the short side for the bow, the > perimeter of the transom seems to have just twice the length of the > stem: it's simply the border of the other short end of the plate. > With the pronounced diving sheerline it's exactly what you get when > you fold a sheet of paper. There is no cut at all, not even for the > sheerline. > > Even the flat at the bottom of the transom is just two creases in > the sheet. That's actually quite a neat trick to get a bit of volume > out of the aft end and to raise the bottom of the transom just above > the waterline. > > Is this a good hull? Of course your shape possibilities are limited > to say the least with this approach, but even in this simplest form > it is not that far from, say, a typical mini 650 shape, and although > those hulls have very little directional stability as cruisers > understand it, that does not keep them from surfing across oceans. A > shape like that could go very fast in certain conditions - different > boats for different programs. > > Anyway, I suspect that design is a bit of a tongue-in-cheek > excercise ;-) but could be really good fun to try on a smaller hull. > > Gerd > > the Yago Project at http://www.justmueller.com/boats/ > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "brentswain38" > wrote: > > > > To create such a shape without cuts would be geometrically > > impossible. Such a wide stern would make the boat uncontrolable > > downwind in any but light conditions and would have absolutely no > > directional stability. > > Brent > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, ymt@ wrote: > > > > > > En vous remerciant. > > > Y-M T > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Gerd > > > To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > > Sent: Sat, 11 Mar 2006 18:30:31 -0000 > > > Subject: [origamiboats] Ultimate origami > > > > > > > > > I have always insisted that origami is defined by the darts. > Well, > > I > > > have just been proven wrong, an by none other than YM Tanton. > > > For the absolute ultimate simplicity in origami construction > have a > > > look at > > > > > > http://www.boatdesign.net/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/4711/cat/500/pp > u > > s > > > er/9830 > > > > > > Just a single, rectangular sheet without any cuts at all... Je > vous > > > salue Mr Tanton!! > > > > > > > > > Gerd > > > The Yago project at http://www.justmueller.com/boats/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats- > > unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > | 10681|10675|2006-03-12 14:11:14|Gerd|Re: Ultimate origami|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "woodcraftssuch" wrote: > > Gerd, Are you saying the whole hull can be 1 rectangular sheet? If > that's so, how can the length of the stem be less than half the beam, > not even including the sides? Sam Good point, Sam, overlooked that one. Maybe it`s a trapezoid with the short end at the bow? The reverse rake in the stem seems to indicate that its a straight line and probably parallel with the transon line? Could be that there is a slight curve in the sheerline borders as well... Anyway, there are no internal cuts (darts) necessary to shape this hull. M'sieur Tanton, sivouplait?? ;-)| 10682|10667|2006-03-12 15:17:27|jhwaalkes|Re: wet vs dry exhaust|Hmm, having trouble visualizing the blower Y-d into exhaust before the box? Is the blower located in engine room? Are the intakes just open to the engine room thereby allowing blower to exhaust engine room air into the box & then out through the space between exhaust pibe and outer sleeve pipe? John --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "mickeyolaf" wrote: > > The exhaust pipe from my Yanmar goes into a box which contains two mufflers and then > continues again after the box as an exhaust pipe inside a pipe. Y'd into the exhaust just > aft of the engine and before the box is a 10,000 hour blower blowing cold air first into the > box surrounding the mufflers and then subsequently down the space between the pipes to > exit via the transom. Forced air exhaust cooling. The blower is turned on before the > engine start and runs for a few minutes after shutdown to cool the box and pipes. No salt > water in the system. The engine is cooled via a fresh water skeg cooler as per Swain > design. > I saw a Perkins in a homebuilt 40' steel boat cooled this way so I can't claim it is an > original idea. The downside is a constantly running blower and if the blower is out I would > expect the box and pipes to get more than somewhat hot. I plan to carry a spare blower. > The ITT blower I bought claims a 10,000 hour life at 250 cubic feet per minute. > Two four inch pipes bring fresh air into the engine room for the engine and are also used > to intake air to cool the exhaust. The engine room is always cold due to the blower > inhaling and exhausting the engine room air. This should also help keep the alternators > cool. The intake 4' pipes run up both corners of the pilothouse to just below the top where > there are covered inlets. I am going to have to put some kind of screen at the inlets or I > am sure to have wasp nests in the pipes. > I have heard so many tales of salt water cooling systems ruining engines I didn't want to > install one and I also didn't want any saltwater period in the boat. I will put up with the > blower and have installed extra insulation for the sound. > > > > > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "dove2steel" wrote: > > > > i'm considering eliminating my wet exhaust in favor of dry. > > Is there any advantage to having the former? I have a Yanmar 2qm20. > > The change would allow me to eliminate a jabsco. One less thing to > > worry about? > > Thank you in advance > > Al > > > | 10683|10667|2006-03-12 23:26:35|mickeyolaf|Re: wet vs dry exhaust|You are correct. My discriptive abilities sometimes don't cut it in my writing. The ITT blower is a flangemount continuous duty model ITT35760-0092, 250 cubic feet per minute 10,000 hour motor. It is adjacent to the muffler box in the engine room. I wanted it in the engine room so the noise would be muffled by the engine room insulation. The blower is connected to the outer pipe Y via a "Greenline" silicone rubber pipe good to 450 degrees F. I will have to run the blower a few mintes after I shut the engine down so the metal outerpipe stays cool and won't melt this flexhose. It is a heavy walled reinforced coolant hose blue in color with a silicone liner. I quess the day I forget I will be buying a new hose. I have given some thought to a temp switch which will turn off the blower when the pipe is cool but have not yet aquired one. Maybe if and when I burn out the first one. Fresh air coming into the engine room is exhausted out the transom via the blower and the double pipe. The blower is y'd into the pipe before the two go into the box. The two 4" inlets are open to the engine room only and the air is sourced up by the roof of the pilothouse. Only the air in the engine room is turned over which will be a good thing for condensation and fuel smells etc. When I get a chance I will take and post pictures of all of the features of this setup. I don't know where u are but you are welcome to go look at the boat in Courtenay, BC. The exhaust setup is completly finished awaiting launch day if and when we ever get there. I know I have read here that people actually launch their boats so I am hopeful. I am also hoping for the dual effect of the incoming air cooling the alternators as the hot air is exhausted out via the blower. I am counting on the blower being reliable but I will carry a spare. They are not that expensive and are mostly plastic with a heavy motor. --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "jhwaalkes" wrote: > > > Hmm, having trouble visualizing the blower Y-d into exhaust before > the box? Is the blower located in engine room? Are the intakes > just open to the engine room thereby allowing blower to exhaust > engine room air into the box & then out through the space between > exhaust pibe and outer sleeve pipe? John > > > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "mickeyolaf" > wrote: > > > > The exhaust pipe from my Yanmar goes into a box which contains two > mufflers and then > > continues again after the box as an exhaust pipe inside a pipe. > Y'd into the exhaust just > > aft of the engine and before the box is a 10,000 hour blower > blowing cold air first into the > > box surrounding the mufflers and then subsequently down the space > between the pipes to > > exit via the transom. Forced air exhaust cooling. The blower is > turned on before the > > engine start and runs for a few minutes after shutdown to cool the > box and pipes. No salt > > water in the system. The engine is cooled via a fresh water skeg > cooler as per Swain > > design. > > I saw a Perkins in a homebuilt 40' steel boat cooled this way so > I can't claim it is an > > original idea. The downside is a constantly running blower and if > the blower is out I would > > expect the box and pipes to get more than somewhat hot. I plan to > carry a spare blower. > > The ITT blower I bought claims a 10,000 hour life at 250 cubic > feet per minute. > > Two four inch pipes bring fresh air into the engine room for the > engine and are also used > > to intake air to cool the exhaust. The engine room is always cold > due to the blower > > inhaling and exhausting the engine room air. This should also help > keep the alternators > > cool. The intake 4' pipes run up both corners of the pilothouse to > just below the top where > > there are covered inlets. I am going to have to put some kind of > screen at the inlets or I > > am sure to have wasp nests in the pipes. > > I have heard so many tales of salt water cooling systems ruining > engines I didn't want to > > install one and I also didn't want any saltwater period in the > boat. I will put up with the > > blower and have installed extra insulation for the sound. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "dove2steel" > wrote: > > > > > > i'm considering eliminating my wet exhaust in favor of dry. > > > Is there any advantage to having the former? I have a Yanmar > 2qm20. > > > The change would allow me to eliminate a jabsco. One less > thing to > > > worry about? > > > Thank you in advance > > > Al > > > > > > | 10684|10628|2006-03-13 15:26:38|tom|Re: volvo diesels|This is a bummer, I just placed a bid on a volvo MD7B for my 26 a couple days ago. now you got me worried are the volvo's realy that bad ? and what would be a proper brand. Tom ----- Original Message ----- From: "brentswain38" To: Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 3:05 PM Subject: Re: [origamiboats]volvo diesels > It's the older Volvos that were so much trouble. Things keep quiting > on them on a regular basis .A friend found one for $500, believing he > could set her right for little more. He ended up paying the price of > a new diesel of a proper brand, at it bit and pieced his money away. > Eventually he ended up scraping it and buying a new diesel of a > proper brand.This is a very common story. > Brent > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Denis Buggy" wrote: >> >> mike your take is correct and i have been preaching the value of > a cast iron quality diesel for years as it is much cheaper by miles > in the long run and you need not be a millionare to source them , > currently a full engine kit for a volvo thd 101 is 1000 euros > including gaskets for a 10 liter engine and mike is correct you can > do them in situ. regards denis >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: mkriley@... >> To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com >> Sent: Sunday, March 05, 2006 5:00 PM >> Subject: Re: [origamiboats]volvo diesels >> >> >> I have been a boat repair person since the 70's and my take on > volvo diesels >> are with the older md-x series md1 md2 etc. >> these are high quality marine diesels low rpm can be rebuilt in > the boat, seperate heads and waterjacketed cylinders. low rpm. these > were designed for commercial fishing and run forever and they are all > cast iron. cons are very heavy for the hp, loud, vibration, and very > expensive for parts in the us. all said I would take it over any > automotive diesel conversion, these all do badly in the marine > envirement as they are not designed for constant load and are maid of > corrosive materials. >> mike >> >> >> To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com >> To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats- > unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com >> >> >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---------- >> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS >> >> a.. Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web. >> >> b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >> origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com >> >> c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms > of Service. >> >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---------- >> >> >> >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >> > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > | 10685|10685|2006-03-13 15:48:43|tom|Cutter vs Sloop on the 26|Hello All On the 26 drawings it is set up as a cutter, all the years Ive ben sailing, the boats have ben sloop rigged. I would like to know the benefits of having it cutter rigged and if I eleminated the intermediat forstay and the running backs and sailed it as a sloop would it change the balance ? Tom [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]| 10686|10628|2006-03-13 17:37:52|Denis Buggy|Re: volvo diesels|currently the best selling trucks and buses in europe are volvo and that has been the case for decades volvo have won bus of the year on more occassions than any other the volvo b10 bus is the most successful bus in the world and the most numerous currently and it is the most successful bus of all time . buses as some of you may know have a stop start cruel life and will quickly fall apart if they are not made of stern stuff the decision to purchase this bus is made by industry professionals individually worldwide and they are built in sweden ,the uk and mexico. dear brent the entire world could be wrong and you could be correct it would not be the first time . i currently own 8 volvo b10 and i would not call them trouble we would usually get over a million km from each engine and have run them since 1991. denis ----- Original Message ----- From: tom To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, March 13, 2006 8:26 PM Subject: Re: [origamiboats]volvo diesels This is a bummer, I just placed a bid on a volvo MD7B for my 26 a couple days ago. now you got me worried are the volvo's realy that bad ? and what would be a proper brand. Tom ----- Original Message ----- From: "brentswain38" To: Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 3:05 PM Subject: Re: [origamiboats]volvo diesels > It's the older Volvos that were so much trouble. Things keep quiting > on them on a regular basis .A friend found one for $500, believing he > could set her right for little more. He ended up paying the price of > a new diesel of a proper brand, at it bit and pieced his money away. > Eventually he ended up scraping it and buying a new diesel of a > proper brand.This is a very common story. > Brent > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Denis Buggy" wrote: >> >> mike your take is correct and i have been preaching the value of > a cast iron quality diesel for years as it is much cheaper by miles > in the long run and you need not be a millionare to source them , > currently a full engine kit for a volvo thd 101 is 1000 euros > including gaskets for a 10 liter engine and mike is correct you can > do them in situ. regards denis >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: mkriley@... >> To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com >> Sent: Sunday, March 05, 2006 5:00 PM >> Subject: Re: [origamiboats]volvo diesels >> >> >> I have been a boat repair person since the 70's and my take on > volvo diesels >> are with the older md-x series md1 md2 etc. >> these are high quality marine diesels low rpm can be rebuilt in > the boat, seperate heads and waterjacketed cylinders. low rpm. these > were designed for commercial fishing and run forever and they are all > cast iron. cons are very heavy for the hp, loud, vibration, and very > expensive for parts in the us. all said I would take it over any > automotive diesel conversion, these all do badly in the marine > envirement as they are not designed for constant load and are maid of > corrosive materials. >> mike >> >> >> To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com >> To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats- > unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com >> >> >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---------- >> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS >> >> a.. Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web. >> >> b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >> origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com >> >> c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms > of Service. >> >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---------- >> >> >> >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >> > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com SPONSORED LINKS British columbia canada Vancouver island Yacht ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS a.. Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web. b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 10687|10628|2006-03-13 18:38:27|Alex Christie|Re: volvo diesels|Brent was pointing out that it was the 'older' volvos that are not a great bet for used engines. I have to agree with him on that: I never trusted the volvo on my father's 27 foot Vega much, and to the day I sold it I wondered when it would quit in a hard chance. Even though the engine was running ok when I sold it, I discounted the boat as if it was engineless (yes I am a poor but honest salesman, with a conscience). Newer volvos probably have far better reliability engineered into them. Parts for the old volvo 10 hp were astronomical here on the BC coast, and it seemed pointless to throw money at the thing when it should have just been replaced. The new owner put an extra longshaft Yamaha four stroke outboard on the stern on a good heavy-duty swinging bracket, with remote controls, for far less money than repowering and left the diesel in place with it's feathering prop. The large prop on the outboard pushed the boat faster than the diesel ever could. Alex ----- Original Message ----- From: Denis Buggy To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, March 13, 2006 2:37 PM Subject: Re: [origamiboats]volvo diesels currently the best selling trucks and buses in europe are volvo and that has been the case for decades volvo have won bus of the year on more occassions than any other the volvo b10 bus is the most successful bus in the world and the most numerous currently and it is the most successful bus of all time . buses as some of you may know have a stop start cruel life and will quickly fall apart if they are not made of stern stuff the decision to purchase this bus is made by industry professionals individually worldwide and they are built in sweden ,the uk and mexico. dear brent the entire world could be wrong and you could be correct it would not be the first time . i currently own 8 volvo b10 and i would not call them trouble we would usually get over a million km from each engine and have run them since 1991. denis ----- Original Message ----- From: tom To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, March 13, 2006 8:26 PM Subject: Re: [origamiboats]volvo diesels This is a bummer, I just placed a bid on a volvo MD7B for my 26 a couple days ago. now you got me worried are the volvo's realy that bad ? and what would be a proper brand. Tom ----- Original Message ----- From: "brentswain38" To: Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 3:05 PM Subject: Re: [origamiboats]volvo diesels > It's the older Volvos that were so much trouble. Things keep quiting > on them on a regular basis .A friend found one for $500, believing he > could set her right for little more. He ended up paying the price of > a new diesel of a proper brand, at it bit and pieced his money away. > Eventually he ended up scraping it and buying a new diesel of a > proper brand.This is a very common story. > Brent > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Denis Buggy" wrote: >> >> mike your take is correct and i have been preaching the value of > a cast iron quality diesel for years as it is much cheaper by miles > in the long run and you need not be a millionare to source them , > currently a full engine kit for a volvo thd 101 is 1000 euros > including gaskets for a 10 liter engine and mike is correct you can > do them in situ. regards denis >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: mkriley@... >> To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com >> Sent: Sunday, March 05, 2006 5:00 PM >> Subject: Re: [origamiboats]volvo diesels >> >> >> I have been a boat repair person since the 70's and my take on > volvo diesels >> are with the older md-x series md1 md2 etc. >> these are high quality marine diesels low rpm can be rebuilt in > the boat, seperate heads and waterjacketed cylinders. low rpm. these > were designed for commercial fishing and run forever and they are all > cast iron. cons are very heavy for the hp, loud, vibration, and very > expensive for parts in the us. all said I would take it over any > automotive diesel conversion, these all do badly in the marine > envirement as they are not designed for constant load and are maid of > corrosive materials. >> mike >> >> >> To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com >> To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats- > unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com >> >> >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---------- >> YAHOO! 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Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 268.2.1/279 - Release Date: 3/10/2006 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 10688|10628|2006-03-13 20:36:02|cirejay|Re: volvo diesels|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Denis Buggy" wrote: > > currently the best selling trucks and buses in europe are volvo and that has been the case for decades volvo have won bus of the year on more occassions than any other the volvo b10 bus is the most successful bus in the world and the most numerous currently and it is the most successful bus of all time . buses as some of you may know have a stop start cruel life and will quickly fall apart if they are not made of stern stuff the decision to purchase this bus is made by industry professionals individually worldwide and they are built in sweden ,the uk and mexico. dear brent the entire world could be wrong and you could be correct it would not be the first time . i currently own 8 volvo b10 and i would not call them trouble we would usually get over a million km from each engine and have run them since 1991. denis - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -- I will heed your advice if ever in need of a Bus. As for small diesels, I'll stay with the Yanmar and I've own a Volvo. Anyone who has read any of my posts knows that I don't agree with Brent just because. I can't speak for the entire cruising world but a goodly part of that world comes down on Brent's side on this one. Heck, that alone might cause him to change his mind about Volvos:-) eric S/V Nebaras| 10689|10628|2006-03-14 08:41:18|Carl Volkwein|Re: volvo diesels|I think it's the start stop thing, busses, and trucks-cars use full power only for a short while, where as boats need power all the time just to keep moving (can't slow down and coast down hill). Carl from W.v. cirejay wrote: --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Denis Buggy" wrote: > > currently the best selling trucks and buses in europe are volvo and that has been the case for decades volvo have won bus of the year on more occassions than any other the volvo b10 bus is the most successful bus in the world and the most numerous currently and it is the most successful bus of all time . buses as some of you may know have a stop start cruel life and will quickly fall apart if they are not made of stern stuff the decision to purchase this bus is made by industry professionals individually worldwide and they are built in sweden ,the uk and mexico. dear brent the entire world could be wrong and you could be correct it would not be the first time . i currently own 8 volvo b10 and i would not call them trouble we would usually get over a million km from each engine and have run them since 1991. denis - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -- I will heed your advice if ever in need of a Bus. As for small diesels, I'll stay with the Yanmar and I've own a Volvo. Anyone who has read any of my posts knows that I don't agree with Brent just because. I can't speak for the entire cruising world but a goodly part of that world comes down on Brent's side on this one. Heck, that alone might cause him to change his mind about Volvos:-) eric S/V Nebaras To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com SPONSORED LINKS British columbia canada Vancouver island Yacht --------------------------------- YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. --------------------------------- __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 10690|10628|2006-03-14 12:33:22|khooper_fboats|Re: volvo diesels|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Denis Buggy" wrote: > > currently the best selling trucks and buses in europe are > volvo and that has been the case for decades All I know about diesels is what I read in books, however, it may be significant that all the applications where people are praising Volvos are fleets. Fleets get regular competent maintenance and get bulk pricing on spares. I owned a Volvo sedan once (gasoline powered) and the price of spare parts was just breathtaking. I recall a hydraulic hose which the Volvo dealer wanted over $100 for--I had it made up at a shop as a one-off for a little over $15. Don't get me started on the wiring harness... The point is that before I decide on an engine I want to know the price of spare parts, and that is the price *I* am going to have to pay, not the price some city transit authority in Europe pays. I could be wrong but in marine applications the Isuzu looks best from that point of view. --Ken| 10691|10685|2006-03-14 20:42:47|brentswain38|Re: Cutter vs Sloop on the 26|It won't change the balance at all. Most people make the inner stay removeable , on a pelican hook, and only set it up on long passages. Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "tom" wrote: > > Hello All > On the 26 drawings it is set up as a cutter, all the years Ive ben sailing, the boats have ben sloop rigged. I would like to know the benefits of having it cutter rigged and if I eleminated the intermediat forstay and the running backs and sailed it as a sloop would it change the balance ? > Tom > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > | 10692|10685|2006-03-14 20:43:21|brentswain38|Re: Cutter vs Sloop on the 26|The mainsail onthe 26 is a Soling mainsail which are a dime a dozen. Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "tom" wrote: > > Hello All > On the 26 drawings it is set up as a cutter, all the years Ive ben sailing, the boats have ben sloop rigged. I would like to know the benefits of having it cutter rigged and if I eleminated the intermediat forstay and the running backs and sailed it as a sloop would it change the balance ? > Tom > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > | 10693|10685|2006-03-14 21:03:28|tom|Re: Cutter vs Sloop on the 26|Brent,Thanks for the info Tom ----- Original Message ----- From: "brentswain38" To: Sent: Tuesday, March 14, 2006 5:43 PM Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Cutter vs Sloop on the 26 > The mainsail onthe 26 is a Soling mainsail which are a dime a dozen. > Brent > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "tom" wrote: >> >> Hello All >> On the 26 drawings it is set up as a cutter, all the years Ive ben > sailing, the boats have ben sloop rigged. I would like to know the > benefits of having it cutter rigged and if I eleminated the intermediat > forstay and the running backs and sailed it as a sloop would it change > the balance ? >> Tom >> >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >> > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > | 10694|10685|2006-03-14 21:19:32|Alex Christie|Re: Cutter vs Sloop on the 26|Also, the rig is a "slutter", not actually a cutter, so you'll see that the mast is not set as far aft as it would be on a cutter. I'd suggest you put in the stainless pad and loop for the inner forestay in any case, it won't hurt having it, and it'll be there in the future if you ever change your mind. Or leave off the welded loop if you don't want to stub it with your toe. Any time people want to leave something off I always advise at least putting in the basic structure as shown in the plans, then you wont have to redo any paint (heat from welding down a pad will ruin paint nearby) if you revert to the original specs. Same goes for experimenting with rigs -- if you are putting on an unusual or un-proven rig, it doesn't hurt to put in the pieces needed for the specified rig, and makes rig swapping a cinch. Brent's rig is simple and proven -- something good to fall back on in case you find your innovation not up to snuff! Alex On 14-Mar-06, at 5:42 PM, brentswain38 wrote: > It won't change the balance at all. Most people make the inner stay > removeable , on a pelican hook, and only set it up on long passages. > Brent > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "tom" wrote: > > > > Hello All > >  On the 26 drawings it is set up as a cutter, all the years Ive ben > sailing, the boats have ben sloop rigged. I would like to know the > benefits of having it cutter rigged and if I eleminated the > intermediat > forstay and the running backs and sailed it as a sloop would it change > the balance ? > >  Tom > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > SPONSORED LINKS > British columbia canada > Vancouver island > Yacht > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > â–ª  Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web. >   > â–ª  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >  origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com >   > â–ª  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > Service. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 10695|10695|2006-03-14 23:04:23|SHANE ROTHWELL|Volvo diesels|Volvo may have the engineering on their busses down to a fine art but their diesel sedans are notorious for being bloody hopeless. after years of inspecting thousands container loads of all sorts of products & shipments out of Asia I've noticed a few basics: - there is DQ "Delinquent Quality" in EVERY production run. nothing is perfect - ALL manufacturers make mistakes at times. that perfection thing again. Just because a manufacturer has one exellent product does not mean all of their products are exellent. - in terms of engineering there are some amazingly classic fuckups out there that make it into the market by sheer force of finance (throw enuf $$ at it and you will move product, or perhaps more honestly, Bullshit Baffles Brains) Besides, the old small marine volvo's are salt water cooled aren't they? What do you expect? __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com| 10696|10696|2006-03-15 06:44:09|singleclub20|You will be invited to here if you are serious about love|This is a dedicated dating site, provides tall singles and their admirers with a place to develop friendship, romance, or marriage with like-minded individuals.You will be invited to here if you are serious about love. http://www.geocities.com/seriousdatinghub| 10697|10685|2006-03-15 09:42:20|mickeyolaf|Re: Cutter vs Sloop on the 26|If you added a bowsprit to a "slutter" it would then be a cutter on viagra which would be known as a "strutter". --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Alex Christie wrote: > > Also, the rig is a "slutter", not actually a cutter, so you'll see that > the mast is not set as far aft as it would be on a cutter. I'd suggest > you put in the stainless pad and loop for the inner forestay in any > case, it won't hurt having it, and it'll be there in the future if you > ever change your mind. Or leave off the welded loop if you don't want > to stub it with your toe. Any time people want to leave something off I > always advise at least putting in the basic structure as shown in the > plans, then you wont have to redo any paint (heat from welding down a > pad will ruin paint nearby) if you revert to the original specs. Same > goes for experimenting with rigs -- if you are putting on an unusual or > un-proven rig, it doesn't hurt to put in the pieces needed for the > specified rig, and makes rig swapping a cinch. Brent's rig is simple > and proven -- something good to fall back on in case you find your > innovation not up to snuff! > > Alex > > > > On 14-Mar-06, at 5:42 PM, brentswain38 wrote: > > > It won't change the balance at all. Most people make the inner stay > > removeable , on a pelican hook, and only set it up on long passages. > > Brent > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "tom" wrote: > > > > > > Hello All > > >  On the 26 drawings it is set up as a cutter, all the years Ive ben > > sailing, the boats have ben sloop rigged. I would like to know the > > benefits of having it cutter rigged and if I eleminated the > > intermediat > > forstay and the running backs and sailed it as a sloop would it change > > the balance ? > > >  Tom > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > SPONSORED LINKS > > British columbia canada > > Vancouver island > > Yacht > > > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > > > ▪  Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web. > >   > > ▪  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > >  origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > >   > > ▪  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > > Service. > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > | 10698|10698|2006-03-15 15:14:25|Ray|Yanmar diesel engine for sale|I saw this on eBay - it's in Baltimore. Not mine - no affiliation whatsoever - I just thought that it might be of use to someone who's farther along in completing their dreamboat than I currently am. Ray Item number: 4621850691| 10699|10685|2006-03-15 20:58:09|cirejay|Re: Cutter vs Sloop on the 26|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "mickeyolaf" wrote: > > If you added a bowsprit to a "slutter" it would then be a cutter on > viagra which would be known as a "strutter". With the bilge keel configuration it would be a good mudter but if, when you tacked, would it go into stays and then stutter? eric S/V Nebaras| 10700|22|2006-03-16 01:00:28|origamiboats@yahoogroups.com|New file uploaded to origamiboats |Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the origamiboats group. File : /OrigamiPlaningPickNickBoat.JPG Uploaded by : ben_azo Description : No Darts & No Folding - Simplest Origami Planing PicNick Boat You can access this file at the URL: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/files/OrigamiPlaningPickNickBoat.JPG To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit: http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files Regards, ben_azo | 10701|10701|2006-03-16 04:29:54|ymt@tantonyachts.com|Re : [origamiboats] Re: Ultimate origami|Une simple coupure rectangulair du point de la largeur maximun jusqu a l etrave| 10702|10701|2006-03-16 13:27:07|scott ollie|Re: Re : [origamiboats] Re: Ultimate origami|This is great, in my humble opinion this is exactly what this group lacks, design diversity.Hey, where is Greg??? No, seriously he always had allot to offer and I miss his input. There are obviously any number of directions this origami technique can take us and I for one am very please to see the new design. Thanks Gerd for bringing it to our attention. Would someone care to translate to english the response below?? ;-) SK --- ymt@... wrote: > Une simple coupure rectangulair du point de la > largeur maximun jusqu a l etrave > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com| 10703|10703|2006-03-16 13:33:38|Tessa Jowell|Work for only 30 minutes daily from your computer and earn up to 5,|Work for only 30 minutes daily from your computer and earn up to 5,000 dollars a day (get free business making tips) http://www.financialcoverage.net/hyip.htm Go 4 millions; see free online advices from experts for your online home business. Any body can come to know how to start an online job and earn more than 2,000 per month. It not the job, no need to work for the bosses; you will be the owner of your own business. So never let it go. http://www.financialcoverage.net/homebusiness.htm --------------------------------- Yahoo! Mail Use Photomail to share photos without annoying attachments. --------------------------------- Yahoo! Mail Use Photomail to share photos without annoying attachments. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]| 10704|10685|2006-03-16 18:11:03|brentswain38|Re: Cutter vs Sloop on the 26|As she balances well, a bowsprit would give her a lee helm. Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "cirejay" wrote: > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "mickeyolaf" > wrote: > > > > If you added a bowsprit to a "slutter" it would then be a cutter on > > viagra which would be known as a "strutter". > > With the bilge keel configuration it would be a good mudter but if, > when you tacked, would it go into stays and then stutter? > > eric S/V Nebaras > | 10705|10701|2006-03-16 22:24:15|Michael|Translation of YMT's post Re : [origamiboats] Re: Ultimate origami|I offer this translation of Yves Tanton's post: One simple rectangular cut from the the point of maximum beam to the stem. Michael --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, ymt@... wrote: > > Une simple coupure rectangulair du point de la largeur maximun jusqu a l etrave > | 10706|10703|2006-03-17 00:53:12|John Major|Work for only 30 minutes daily from your computer and earn up to 5,|Work for only 30 minutes daily from your computer and earn up to 5,000 dollars a day (get free business making tips) http://www.financialcoverage.net/hyip.htm Go 4 millions; see free online advices from experts for your online home business. Any body can come to know how to start an online job and earn more than 2,000 per month. It not the job, no need to work for the bosses; you will be the owner of your own business. So never let it go. http://www.financialcoverage.net/homebusiness.htm --------------------------------- Yahoo! Mail Use Photomail to share photos without annoying attachments. --------------------------------- Yahoo! Travel Find great deals to the top 10 hottest destinations! [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]| 10708|10701|2006-03-17 04:11:05|Puck III|Re : Ultimate origami - IMAGIRO 28'|Hi Scott , I agree with your post , diversity is nice . Especialy if the new design has something special to offer. I like the IMAGIRO 28' very , very much ! Why ? - the longest possible waterline . [just compare to waterlinelength from longer boats] - narrow beam at the waterline , widening quickly under heel for added stability . - well centered weights [ easy to work on engine to ] - twin rudders guarantee a neutral steering behaviour, easy work for an autopilot! - low draft with the lift keel , twin keel option . - open not crowded interior , workable at sea. - good vieuw around from the interior . - enough sail to garantee speed under all conditions. Most of all it seems the easyest and fastest Origami to build. Just designed to be build in Aluminum , or also to be build in steel ? We should ask more info to YM Tanton . I sure hope somebody build her soon !!! Personaly I would like to see into a collapsable mast with gaff option , wish must be easy to design . I think that boat has a lot to offer for anybody looking for a real fast sailing boat . A fine boat to surf the waves , in my eyes :-) Old Ben --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, scott ollie wrote: > > This is great, in my humble opinion this is exactly > what this group lacks, design diversity.Hey, where is > Greg??? No, seriously he always had allot to offer and > I miss his input. There are obviously any number of > directions this origami technique can take us and I > for one am very please to see the new design. Thanks > Gerd for bringing it to our attention. > > Would someone care to translate to english the > response below?? ;-) > > SK > > --- ymt@... wrote: > > > Une simple coupure rectangulair du point de la > > largeur maximun jusqu a l etrave > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > | 10709|10709|2006-03-17 05:05:28|ymt@tantonyachts.com|Re : [origamiboats] Re : Ultimate origami - IMAGIRO 28'|I would say that the "Imagiro28" is too light for steel construction.She is designed for aluminum or other relatively light isotropic material. Such as: plywood and glass panels. Of course, with a longer "Imagiro" design, perhaps 31/32ft,the added displacement thanks to the extra long LWL. should be enough to take account of the heavier material.| 10710|10710|2006-03-17 07:06:41|Alex Christie|origami diversity|Yes, by all means let's get diverse! It'd be great for us all to develop a wide range of boat types that people could build. There is an interesting computer program available out there called Touch-Cad 3D, from sweden, and they've already done an origami-style boat. It would be interesting to explore technologies like that which are well suited to origami style construction and see what people come up with. So go to it and share with us here! Alex ----- Original Message ----- From: scott ollie To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2006 10:26 AM Subject: Re: Re : [origamiboats] Re: Ultimate origami This is great, in my humble opinion this is exactly what this group lacks, design diversity.Hey, where is Greg??? No, seriously he always had allot to offer and I miss his input. There are obviously any number of directions this origami technique can take us and I for one am very please to see the new design. Thanks Gerd for bringing it to our attention. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 10711|10711|2006-03-17 09:42:39|Anthony|Want100% Migration..? For Canada,Australia,UK,USA,New Zealand.|Want100% Migration..? For Canada,Australia,UK,USA,New Zealand. Please visit to get the info and you can judge yourself whether you can qualify for Canadian immigration http://immigrationtoabroad.blogspot.com/ You may meet the require points or not Highly skilled migrant program (HSMP) For more information :: http://ausimmigration.blogspot.com/ __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]| 10712|10712|2006-03-17 10:00:27|mickeyolaf|Powerboaters vs Sailors|A friend of mine is a member of a "Royal" yacht club and runs a large power boat. He made another one of his off the dock comments the other day. He said "you can always spot the sailor in a marine store. The sailor is the guy getting his fourth price on a $10.00 item." I told him he was dead wrong. A sailor would obtain at least 6 different prices before deciding to build the part himself.| 10713|10713|2006-03-17 11:30:25|seeratlas|Cats Cats Cats....|Seems like every six months or so the group gets into a big Cat discussion. And, heheh I always have to ask, have any of you guys ever actually spent any blue water time on a catamaran? If so, why do you find them attractive? No offense but I guess for day sailing or protected water sailing they might be fine, but aside from the obvious capsizing threat, which is ALWAYS life threatening and usually voyage ending...everyone I've been on beat you to death in a seaway. To be sure there are those rare halcyon days of smooth seas, 25 knot winds from the stern quarter and to quote the old Jackie Gleason character, "And AWAAAAAAAYYYY WE GO!" but man I gotta tell you...they don't come even close to making up for the brutal bashing you take on a cat in any kind of sea.... I suppose a steel one, or huge one, built heavy enough to sit down in the water might be better, but that defeats the purpose for which cats are generally built, i.e. to go fast. bottom line I've known 5 people who built and sailed off for lengthy cruises in cats, ranging from around 25 feet up to 50 something. Everyone of em, and I mean EVERYONE of them sold their boats. I know there is some interest in the very inexpensive Wharing {sp?} designs but they are heavier 'sit down in the water' types. Oh, and one more thing, you havn't lived, or should I say almost died, until you've had the deck on a cat swept by green water.... maybe i'm just too old now to enjoy the 'thrill' :) seer| 10714|10714|2006-03-17 14:07:59|seeratlas|Oh, and as for Powerboaters...|Well its easy to test if you're actually a closet powerboater at heart, And you can save a lot of money using my testing process :) Rent a camper and go park it next to a car repair shop on say a monday morning. then have a big fat lady come in and jump up and down on the bed while smoking a particularly offensive cigar while you try to get some sleep. Course if you want authenticity, hire six big guys to rock the coach back and forth while she's at it. Now, If the total experience "works" for you....Congratulations! you're a true powerboater at heart :) seer| 10715|10715|2006-03-17 15:07:34|shawnbantingkillam|Seeking wisdom, guidance, advice etc etc etc|Hello, I am posting this request based on the theory that people who are building their own boat are going to know more about boats than those who simply go down to the marina armed with a wheelbarrow full of cash. I will confess right from the outset that I am very unlikely to build my own boat. For openers I would have to get divorced and then I wouldn't be able to afford the materials. Additionally being closer to the end of my career than the beginning it is fiscally smarter for me to work and pay someone who knows what they are doing to build me a boat. Or buy something that someone else has built. Which brings me to my request for guidance, wisdom etc. She who must be obeyed and myself have allocated 2 years to researching boats, boating, etc before purchasing same. We are pretty new at this although 30 years ago I did do a bit of crewing around the carribean. We are doing some chartering, taking some lessons and so on. What I am seeking is opinions and suggestions for books, boats, courses etc. The sort of thing you would tell a moderately retarded cousin if he was talking about running away to sea. What kind of things we should look for in a crusing boat. What are considered to be absolute necessities versus luxuries. Is aluminum worth the extra cost? would you consider having a foreign boat builder (eg turkey or india) construct one for you. Just another note about us, We would probably have to tie up for 3-6 months of the year and go to work. Hopefully living on board. With this in mind we would be probably want a bit bigger boat than if we had a house to retreat to for this time. Thank you in andvance for the information. Shawn Killam| 10716|10716|2006-03-17 15:16:21|Lee Major|Studying Abroad..|Studying Abroad.. There are lots of opportunities for the students to get their education from worldly Reputed universities and colleges free of cost. It is being offered in many different countries of the world like, Sweden, Finland, Germany, Italy, France, Spain, Belgium, e.t.c http://thestudies.blogspot.com/ http://studentsloan.blogspot.com/ --------------------------------- Yahoo! Mail Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze. --------------------------------- Yahoo! Travel Find great deals to the top 10 hottest destinations! [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]| 10717|10715|2006-03-17 15:21:08|Wesley Cox|Re: Seeking wisdom, guidance, advice etc etc etc|Where do you plan to take your boat? Offshore, inland lakes, rivers, etc. A boat for "big" water is a completely different creature than one for protected or semi-protected water. What is your intended mode of propulsion, sail, motor, row? Or a combination? The typical sail boat confiuration includes an inboard diesel engine for backup propulsion or motor sailing, but there are purists who do without any motor or just use an outboard. You've come to the right place, especially for boating on serious water. The aluminum vs. steel question has been debated here ad infinitum. One unquestionable property of aluminum is it's succeptible to corrosion in salt water, including the marine grades. In fresh water, it does not have to be painted or otherwise protected, making it "maintenance free". In salt water, not true. The controversy lies in which is more difficult and expensive to keep protected, aluminum or steel and which is the superior material. My personal opinion is if I have to deal with the hassle of painting at all, so long as the 2 choices are comparable in price to paint, I would much rather have the strength of steel. The greater weight of the hull below the water line is also a built in bonus in terms of sea worthiness. shawnbantingkillam wrote: >Hello, > >I am posting this request based on the theory that people who are >building their own boat are going to know more about boats than those >who simply go down to the marina armed with a wheelbarrow full of >cash. > >I will confess right from the outset that I am very unlikely to build >my own boat. For openers I would have to get divorced and then I >wouldn't be able to afford the materials. Additionally being closer >to the end of my career than the beginning it is fiscally smarter for >me to work and pay someone who knows what they are doing to build me >a boat. Or buy something that someone else has built. Which brings >me to my request for guidance, wisdom etc. > >She who must be obeyed and myself have allocated 2 years to >researching boats, boating, etc before purchasing same. We are >pretty new at this although 30 years ago I did do a bit of crewing >around the carribean. We are doing some chartering, taking some >lessons and so on. > >What I am seeking is opinions and suggestions for books, boats, >courses etc. The sort of thing you would tell a moderately retarded >cousin if he was talking about running away to sea. What kind of >things we should look for in a crusing boat. What are considered to >be absolute necessities versus luxuries. Is aluminum worth the extra >cost? would you consider having a foreign boat builder (eg turkey or >india) construct one for you. > >Just another note about us, We would probably have to tie up for 3-6 >months of the year and go to work. Hopefully living on board. With >this in mind we would be probably want a bit bigger boat than if we >had a house to retreat to for this time. Thank you in andvance for >the information. > >Shawn Killam > > > > > > > >To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com >To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > | 10718|10718|2006-03-17 19:02:39|De Clarke|catamarans -- de gustibus?|> to quote the old Jackie Gleason character, "And AWAAAAAAAYYYY WE GO!" > but man I gotta tell you...they don't come even close to making up for > the brutal bashing you take on a cat in any kind of sea.... I have wondered this myself ever since I assisted with the delivery of a 30ft (approx) cat (about 120 coastal miles in 2 legs) in fairly mild conditions. downwind she went like a picnic table on roller skates. upwind she went like a jackhammer. I don't think I've ever had such an uncomfortable or worrying ride as even a moderate beat in that cat. felt like the boat was going to come apart from the repeated hammering; the two v-section hulls threw waves inboard at each slam, and those waves met and punched up to whack the heck out of the underside of the hull between. you could see the salon table jumping up and down with each punch from the water as the fibreglass flexed. scary. foredeck work was also kind of scary on that big wide-open dance floor, felt very exposed. I know people who like cats really swear by them but I was not won over by that experience. maybe it was a particularly weak design. I think it was a Gemini. so I share your curiosity. [and now the cat fans get out their flame throwers ] de -- ............................................................................. :De Clarke, Software Engineer UCO/Lick Observatory, UCSC: :Mail: de@... | Your planet's immune system is trying to get rid : :Web: www.ucolick.org | of you. --Kurt Vonnegut : :1024D/B9C9E76E | F892 5F17 8E0A F095 05CD EE8B D169 EDAA B9C9 E76E:| 10719|10715|2006-03-17 19:38:13|shawnbantingkillam|Re: Seeking wisdom, guidance, advice etc etc etc|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Wesley Cox wrote: > > Where do you plan to take your boat? Offshore, inland lakes, rivers, -The plan is to head out into big blue and let seasons and weather guide our course. I am not (like some previous posters) planning on heading into the arctic or Antarctic. I like to be warm, and comfortable. I would like to think that whatever boat I end up with could withstand a hurricane but I will be quite happy going to my grave without firsthand experience. > etc. A boat for "big" water is a completely different creature than one > for protected or semi-protected water. What is your intended mode of > propulsion, sail, motor, row? - Sail and if necessary a bit of power to get out of the way of things that would make my life unpleasant, like the aforementioned hurricane. While I have seen very large racing sail boats with no engine a purist I ain't. Or a combination? The typical sail boat > configuration includes an inboard diesel engine for backup propulsion or > motor sailing, but there are purists who do without any motor or just > use an outboard. You've come to the right place, especially for boating > on serious water. > > The aluminum vs. steel question has been debated here ad infinitum. One > unquestionable property of aluminum is it's succeptible to corrosion in > salt water, including the marine grades. In fresh water, it does not > have to be painted or otherwise protected, making it "maintenance > free". In salt water, not true. The controversy lies in which is more > difficult and expensive to keep protected, aluminum or steel and which > is the superior material. My personal opinion is if I have to deal with > the hassle of painting at all, so long as the 2 choices are comparable > in price to paint, I would much rather have the strength of steel. The > greater weight of the hull below the water line is also a built in bonus > in terms of sea worthiness. I am really surprised to hear that about aluminum and salt water. When I was younger and even more stupid than I am now I worked out of Alert Bay on a fishing boat. There were several aluminum, unpainted boats there and they were thought to be the bees knees. Those of us scraping corrosion and applying leads gazed enviously at these craft as they seemed impervious to all that was thrown at them. Thanks for the information. The information on aluminum alone was worth the price of admission. Shawn Killam > | 10720|10715|2006-03-17 21:03:19|Wesley Cox|Re: Seeking wisdom, guidance, advice etc etc etc|I think it's a matter of degree protecting aluminum. The Aluminum Association's web site says "Even in salt water applications, little or no protective coatings are required for aluminum seawalls". The 'little or no' part would make me nervous. Would I want no corrosion with paint or almost no corrosion without paint over the long term? Aluminum is also very sensitive to galvanic corrosion if the zincs aren't properly configured and maintained. One also reads (hears) stories of boats with galvanic issues because a penny was dropped into the bilge. In a big cruiser, you may not see the penny :). I have a fair amount of experience fabricating aluminum, but only limited experience painting it. My experience has been it's a pain. There may be others on this group who can attest to specific methods and products that make painting an aluminum hull less difficult. shawnbantingkillam wrote: >--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Wesley Cox wrote: > > >>Where do you plan to take your boat? Offshore, inland lakes, >> >> >rivers, > >-The plan is to head out into big blue and let seasons and weather >guide our course. I am not (like some previous posters) planning on >heading into the arctic or Antarctic. I like to be warm, and >comfortable. I would like to think that whatever boat I end up with >could withstand a hurricane but I will be quite happy going to my >grave without firsthand experience. > > > >>etc. A boat for "big" water is a completely different creature >> >> >than one > > >>for protected or semi-protected water. What is your intended mode >> >> >of > > >>propulsion, sail, motor, row? >> >> > >- Sail and if necessary a bit of power to get out of the way of >things that would make my life unpleasant, like the aforementioned >hurricane. While I have seen very large racing sail boats with no >engine a purist I ain't. > > > > Or a combination? The typical sail boat > > >>configuration includes an inboard diesel engine for backup >> >> >propulsion or > > >>motor sailing, but there are purists who do without any motor or >> >> >just > > >>use an outboard. You've come to the right place, especially for >> >> >boating > > >>on serious water. >> >>The aluminum vs. steel question has been debated here ad >> >> >infinitum. One > > >>unquestionable property of aluminum is it's succeptible to >> >> >corrosion in > > >>salt water, including the marine grades. In fresh water, it does >> >> >not > > >>have to be painted or otherwise protected, making it "maintenance >>free". In salt water, not true. The controversy lies in which is >> >> >more > > >>difficult and expensive to keep protected, aluminum or steel and >> >> >which > > >>is the superior material. My personal opinion is if I have to deal >> >> >with > > >>the hassle of painting at all, so long as the 2 choices are >> >> >comparable > > >>in price to paint, I would much rather have the strength of steel. >> >> >The > > >>greater weight of the hull below the water line is also a built in >> >> >bonus > > >>in terms of sea worthiness. >> >> > > >I am really surprised to hear that about aluminum and salt water. >When I was younger and even more stupid than I am now I worked out of >Alert Bay on a fishing boat. There were several aluminum, unpainted >boats there and they were thought to be the bees knees. Those of us >scraping corrosion and applying leads gazed enviously at these craft >as they seemed impervious to all that was thrown at them. > >Thanks for the information. The information on aluminum alone was >worth the price of admission. > >Shawn Killam > > > > > > > > >To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com >To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > | 10721|10721|2006-03-17 21:50:52|audeojude|I'm not getting the Daily Digest anymore|I'm not sure what the problem is but this is specific to the origamiboats group. I am no longer getting the daily digest emailed to me. It's very weird.. it stopped about a week and a half or two weeks ago... other yahoo groups are still fine.... I've checked my membership options and it is still all correct with the email address they should be sent to and what format I would like them in. has anyone else been having this problem? scott| 10722|10722|2006-03-18 17:18:02|ANDREW AIREY|Re: Digest Number 1496|> Message: 2 > Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2006 20:06:26 -0000 > From: "shawnbantingkillam" > Subject: Seeking wisdom, guidance, advice etc etc > etc > > Hello, > > I am posting this request based on the theory that > people who are > building their own boat are going to know more about > boats than those > who simply go down to the marina armed with a > wheelbarrow full of > cash. > > I will confess right from the outset that I am very > unlikely to build > my own boat. For openers I would have to get > divorced and then I > wouldn't be able to afford the materials. > Additionally being closer > to the end of my career than the beginning it is > fiscally smarter for > me to work and pay someone who knows what they are > doing to build me > a boat. Or buy something that someone else has > built. Which brings > me to my request for guidance, wisdom etc. > > She who must be obeyed and myself have allocated 2 > years to > researching boats, boating, etc before purchasing > same. We are > pretty new at this although 30 years ago I did do a > bit of crewing > around the carribean. We are doing some chartering, > taking some > lessons and so on. > > What I am seeking is opinions and suggestions for > books, boats, > courses etc. The sort of thing you would tell a > moderately retarded > cousin if he was talking about running away to sea. > What kind of > things we should look for in a crusing boat. What > are considered to > be absolute necessities versus luxuries. Is aluminum > worth the extra > cost? would you consider having a foreign boat > builder (eg turkey or > india) construct one for you. > > Just another note about us, We would probably have > to tie up for 3-6 > months of the year and go to work. Hopefully living > on board. With > this in mind we would be probably want a bit bigger > boat than if we > had a house to retreat to for this time. Thank you > in andvance for > the information. > > Shawn Killam > > A good book to get a different slant on things is Phil Bolgers book 'Boats with an open mind',since he is very good on liveaboards,although not necessarily steel.Also try Annie Hill's 'Voyaging on a small income'.One of the references in the back of that is to a steel liveaboard called 'Wylo II' - 32'x10'with a draft of 3'with centreboard up and gaff or junk rig.You can go virtually anywhere with that. Cheers Andy Airey ___________________________________________________________ NEW Yahoo! Cars - sell your car and browse thousands of new and used cars online! http://uk.cars.yahoo.com/| 10723|10715|2006-03-18 18:41:26|sae140|Re: Seeking wisdom, guidance, advice etc etc etc|You might find the following link interesting: http://members.optusnet.com.au/coastalcruising/introcruising.htm| 10724|10628|2006-03-19 10:54:03|tom|Re: volvo diesels|Well I don't have to worry about the Volvo anymore , the guy closed the listing before it ended, don't seem quite rite but oh well. anyway I was a little skeptical about the weight of the thing, 399 pound engine and trans + the weight of the beds,fuel tank, ect. it adds up to a lot for a 26 boat that's going to be trailerd, So back to original plan of outboard. Tom ----- Original Message ----- From: "tom" To: Sent: Monday, March 13, 2006 12:26 PM Subject: Re: [origamiboats]volvo diesels > This is a bummer, I just placed a bid on a volvo MD7B for my 26 a couple > days ago. now you got me worried are the volvo's realy that bad ? and > what > would be a proper brand. > Tom > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "brentswain38" > To: > Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 3:05 PM > Subject: Re: [origamiboats]volvo diesels > > >> It's the older Volvos that were so much trouble. Things keep quiting >> on them on a regular basis .A friend found one for $500, believing he >> could set her right for little more. He ended up paying the price of >> a new diesel of a proper brand, at it bit and pieced his money away. >> Eventually he ended up scraping it and buying a new diesel of a >> proper brand.This is a very common story. >> Brent >> >> >> --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Denis Buggy" wrote: >>> >>> mike your take is correct and i have been preaching the value of >> a cast iron quality diesel for years as it is much cheaper by miles >> in the long run and you need not be a millionare to source them , >> currently a full engine kit for a volvo thd 101 is 1000 euros >> including gaskets for a 10 liter engine and mike is correct you can >> do them in situ. regards denis >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: mkriley@... >>> To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com >>> Sent: Sunday, March 05, 2006 5:00 PM >>> Subject: Re: [origamiboats]volvo diesels >>> >>> >>> I have been a boat repair person since the 70's and my take on >> volvo diesels >>> are with the older md-x series md1 md2 etc. >>> these are high quality marine diesels low rpm can be rebuilt in >> the boat, seperate heads and waterjacketed cylinders. low rpm. these >> were designed for commercial fishing and run forever and they are all >> cast iron. cons are very heavy for the hp, loud, vibration, and very >> expensive for parts in the us. all said I would take it over any >> automotive diesel conversion, these all do badly in the marine >> envirement as they are not designed for constant load and are maid of >> corrosive materials. >>> mike >>> >>> >>> To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com >>> To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats- >> unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com >>> >>> >>> >>> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >> ---------- >>> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS >>> >>> a.. Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web. >>> >>> b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >>> origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com >>> >>> c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms >> of Service. >>> >>> >>> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >> ---------- >>> >>> >>> >>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com >> To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: >> origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com >> Yahoo! Groups Links >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > | 10725|9840|2006-03-19 12:18:50|tom|BS 26|Hello all I haven't dun much on the boat the last couple weekends, its been raining to much, just been scrounging stainless from scrap yards. I can buy remnants from the steel supply for $2 a pound and the scrap yards charge $1 to $1.50 , I don't think its worth all the time driving around digging through bens to save a couple bucks. Most is the 304 grade and 316 is hard to find new or used around here. I figured out about what the Sitka spruce mast would weigh and its around 2-3/4 pounds a foot and fir would be a little over 4 pounds a foot and that's for a 3" x 4-1/2" solid mast. I can build a steel mast that would be around 4-1/2 pounds a foot using galvanized sheets, braking up half sections and using split 3/8" sch40 stainless pipe for luff . should work keeping the sectional size 3-1/2" x 5" and running a set of diamond shrouds, I would imagine it would be as strong or stronger than the wood. The boom I figure using 2-1/2" .065 wall round tubing and setting it up for loose foot main. No one has built one like this yet from what I know so I guess I will have to be the gennypig and do one for the 26 and put it to test Tom [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]| 10726|9840|2006-03-19 13:58:32|Denis Buggy|Re: BS 26|----- Original Message ----- From: To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com hello all . what i wonder is the prevailing wisdom of fitting a waterjet propulsion versus the prop . in a motor yacht there seems to be advantages if your boat is designed with a waterjet as the design propulsion , the advantage with a sailboat would seem to be that you could spec a proper propellor to suit engine and boat instead of using a feathering prop which does neither feather or prop the boat well . no gearbox or clutch is required with the waterjet as you merely ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ deflect the water flow as an aircraft does with engine thrust it will stop the boat in its own length and you can drive it up on the beach as the prop is in board . does anybody have an opinion re drag as there is only a grill fitted flush with the hull , no shaft , no cutlass bearing no prop drag . re the volvo engine saga , i enquired and the volvo car has an itilian diesel engine which does not enjoy a good name you all are correct in this , however if you can lay your hands on a true volvo engine with wet liners and seperate cast iron heads you will never need another engine as previously posted on this group . on another topic i have been following where the mega bucks are being spent on hull research and the high speed catamaran is state of the art for the past 10 years with refining of the wave piercing bow and the forward t foil which is controlled by on board computer to prevent hobby horsing in rough seas being given plenty of "refining " this work is driven by military dollars and the pace of progress is very rapid as the austrailian navy moved a battillion at forty eight knots to sumatra versus the us navy normal twelve and caused a major review of all naval thinking since , all plans are now geared to a boxy stealth 50 knot vessel some have been made of carbon fiber totally and can still fight and sail after being mined . the main suppliers are the incat co and austal co of austraila and the newest biggest multihull in the world is no longer a catamaran it is fred olsen lines ferry between the gran canaries and spain and is a trimaran as the cat ferries could not cope with rough seas . our own high speed ship on the irish sea H.S.S. now stands for "hope she sails ". fred olsens site states that there is up to a 40 % increase in passenger comfort with the tri cioncept and it can handel the rough . hull research has now moved on driven by the prospect of mega bucks from the military . regards denis [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 10727|10715|2006-03-19 15:09:54|seeratlas|Re: Seeking wisdom, guidance, advice etc etc etc|I think you're on the right path. There are over a thousand posts here, quite a few are worth reading. Most aspects of what you are considering have been discussed here, and assuming you can get the search engine to work, those discussions are readily accessible. Couple of 'advisories'. In my own personal opinion, nothing beats advice from someone who's actually been there done that. The sailing world is absolutely full of 'theorists' of all stripes, and EVERYONE you encounter is likely to have an often passionate opinion on every aspect of sailing, whether they know what the hell they are talking about or not. Having said that, beware those who are so ingrained in their own thinking that they either cannot or will not consider 'on the merits' someone else's opinions or ideas. I can think of several very experienced blue water sailors who are so self-enamored that they wouldn't recognize a 'good idea' not their own, if it smacked them up the side of the head like free swinging boom during an unplanned jibe. Unfortunately, this happens a lot with sailing authors....and a few designers. One of the reasons I was drawn to this group was the frankness with which Brent expresses his opinions. You could do a lot worse than ordering his book, and reading his posts in this group. Just remember, Brent doesn't like to drink, doesn't like to cook fancy, doesn't care much for regulatory authority or sea going company (on his own boat:), and seems to have a very deep seated aversion to 'sailor BS'. What he does like are truly functional things that are elegant in the simplicity of their design and construction, things that have demonstrated their utility and longevity under real life sea conditions, and designs and construction techniques that have proven over time to NOT deposit your 'azzz---pirations' on the sea floor. I would also read some of the heavy weather sailing books, they often talk about things that work when you need them to work, and again, most are written by people who were there, Adlard Coles' book is a good start. Lastly, spend as much time as you can hanging round boats and boat people. When you find someone whos been out there, listen a lot, ask as many questions as you can get away with, and don't leave out the guys who work on the sea for a living. When a good idea comes up, generally it will rocket thru a commercial fleet in short order. Good luck in your search, and remember, you're not the first to have this 'dream', you won't be the last. Many have spent years, dreaming, designing and then building. Fitting out, setting out and then finding out the dream wasn't all it was cracked up to be. There are literally tons of 'dream ships' for sail at sacrifice prices in the harbors of pretty much any significant cruising destination....so... my last piece of advice...get out there and go sailing, on someone else's boat :) You want to make sure the light at the end of your tunnel is shining from a boat :) seer| 10728|10715|2006-03-19 16:58:05|brentswain38|Re: Seeking wisdom, guidance, advice etc etc etc|Right on all points but one. I've occasionally enjoyed female company on my boat, more so now that I'm old enough to not allow hormones to spoil a trip for anyone. I haven't enjoyed the head games of seeking out such company tho, so I don't bother with the chase any more. Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "seeratlas" wrote: > > I think you're on the right path. > > There are over a thousand posts here, quite a few are worth reading. > Most aspects of what you are considering have been discussed here, and > assuming you can get the search engine to work, those discussions are > readily accessible. > > Couple of 'advisories'. In my own personal opinion, nothing beats > advice from someone who's actually been there done that. The sailing > world is absolutely full of 'theorists' of all stripes, and EVERYONE > you encounter is likely to have an often passionate opinion on every > aspect of sailing, whether they know what the hell they are talking > about or not. > > Having said that, beware those who are so ingrained in their own > thinking that they either cannot or will not consider 'on the merits' > someone else's opinions or ideas. I can think of several very > experienced blue water sailors who are so self-enamored that they > wouldn't recognize a 'good idea' not their own, if it smacked them up > the side of the head like free swinging boom during an unplanned jibe. > Unfortunately, this happens a lot with sailing authors....and a few > designers. > > One of the reasons I was drawn to this group was the frankness with > which Brent expresses his opinions. You could do a lot worse than > ordering his book, and reading his posts in this group. Just remember, > Brent doesn't like to drink, doesn't like to cook fancy, doesn't care > much for regulatory authority or sea going company (on his own boat:), > and seems to have a very deep seated aversion to 'sailor BS'. What he > does like are truly functional things that are elegant in the > simplicity of their design and construction, things that have > demonstrated their utility and longevity under real life sea > conditions, and designs and construction techniques that have proven > over time to NOT deposit your 'azzz---pirations' on the sea floor. > > I would also read some of the heavy weather sailing books, they often > talk about things that work when you need them to work, and again, > most are written by people who were there, Adlard Coles' book is a > good start. > > Lastly, spend as much time as you can hanging round boats and boat > people. When you find someone whos been out there, listen a lot, ask > as many questions as you can get away with, and don't leave out the > guys who work on the sea for a living. When a good idea comes up, > generally it will rocket thru a commercial fleet in short order. > > Good luck in your search, and remember, you're not the first to have > this 'dream', you won't be the last. Many have spent years, dreaming, > designing and then building. Fitting out, setting out and then finding > out the dream wasn't all it was cracked up to be. There are literally > tons of 'dream ships' for sail at sacrifice prices in the harbors of > pretty much any significant cruising destination....so... my last > piece of advice...get out there and go sailing, on someone else's boat > :) You want to make sure the light at the end of your tunnel is > shining from a boat :) > > seer > | 10729|10701|2006-03-19 17:01:27|brentswain38|Re : [origamiboats] Re: Ultimate origami|I was glad to see Greg supply the larger boat ,aluminium part of the market, something I have no interest in.We had the right to question some of his assertions, something it appears he was unable to accept. Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, scott ollie wrote: > > This is great, in my humble opinion this is exactly > what this group lacks, design diversity.Hey, where is > Greg??? No, seriously he always had allot to offer and > I miss his input. There are obviously any number of > directions this origami technique can take us and I > for one am very please to see the new design. Thanks > Gerd for bringing it to our attention. > > Would someone care to translate to english the > response below?? ;-) > > SK > > --- ymt@... wrote: > > > Une simple coupure rectangulair du point de la > > largeur maximun jusqu a l etrave > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > | 10730|9840|2006-03-19 17:39:05|tom|Re: BS 26|Hello Denis From what I know on jet drives on boats, I have worked on a few and have friends that own them, They are not to efficient they loose 30 to 40% HP compared to a prop. The only reason I know anyone runs them is for shallow water and there sure not maintenance free, most the ones I know of the guys spend a lot of money on to keep them going + take a barrel of gas along just to go one day. Tom ----- Original Message ----- From: "Denis Buggy" To: Sent: Sunday, March 19, 2006 10:58 AM Subject: Re: [origamiboats] BS 26 > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > hello all . what i wonder is the prevailing wisdom of fitting a waterjet > propulsion versus the prop . in a motor yacht there seems to be advantages > if your boat is designed with a waterjet as the design propulsion , the > advantage with a sailboat would seem to be that you could spec a proper > propellor to suit engine and boat instead of using a feathering prop > which does neither feather or prop the boat well . no gearbox or clutch > is required with the waterjet as you merely > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > deflect the water flow as an aircraft does with engine thrust it will > stop the boat in its own length and you can drive it up on the beach as > the prop is in board . does anybody have an opinion re drag as there is > only a grill fitted flush with the hull , no shaft , no cutlass bearing no > prop drag . > re the volvo engine saga , i enquired and the volvo car has an itilian > diesel engine which does not enjoy a good name you all are correct in this > , however if you can lay your hands on a true volvo engine with wet liners > and seperate cast iron heads you will never need another engine as > previously posted on this group . > on another topic i have been following where the mega bucks are being > spent on hull research and the high speed catamaran is state of the art > for the past 10 years with refining of the wave piercing bow and the > forward t foil which is controlled by on board computer to prevent hobby > horsing in rough seas being given plenty of "refining " this work is > driven by military dollars and the pace of progress is very rapid as the > austrailian navy moved a battillion at forty eight knots to sumatra > versus the us navy normal twelve and caused a major review of all naval > thinking since , all plans are now geared to a boxy stealth 50 knot vessel > some have been made of carbon fiber totally and can still fight and sail > after being mined . > the main suppliers are the incat co and austal co of austraila and the > newest biggest multihull in the world is no longer a catamaran it is fred > olsen lines ferry between the gran canaries and spain and is a trimaran > as the cat ferries could not cope with rough seas . our own high speed > ship on the irish sea H.S.S. now stands for "hope she sails ". > fred olsens site states that there is up to a 40 % increase in > passenger comfort with the tri cioncept and it can handel the rough . > hull research has now moved on driven by the prospect of mega bucks > from the military . regards denis > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > | 10731|10715|2006-03-19 20:07:28|Gary|Re: Seeking wisdom, guidance, advice etc etc etc|Hi Brent... as Red Green says... "If they can't find you handsome, at least they can find you handy".. Gary --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "brentswain38" wrote: > > Right on all points but one. I've occasionally enjoyed female > company on my boat, more so now that I'm old enough to not allow > hormones to spoil a trip for anyone. I haven't enjoyed the head games > of seeking out such company tho, so I don't bother with the chase > any more. > Brent > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "seeratlas" > wrote: > > > > I think you're on the right path. > > > > There are over a thousand posts here, quite a few are worth reading. > > Most aspects of what you are considering have been discussed here, > and > > assuming you can get the search engine to work, those discussions > are > > readily accessible. > > > > Couple of 'advisories'. In my own personal opinion, nothing beats > > advice from someone who's actually been there done that. The > sailing > > world is absolutely full of 'theorists' of all stripes, and EVERYONE > > you encounter is likely to have an often passionate opinion on every > > aspect of sailing, whether they know what the hell they are talking > > about or not. > > > > Having said that, beware those who are so ingrained in their own > > thinking that they either cannot or will not consider 'on the > merits' > > someone else's opinions or ideas. I can think of several very > > experienced blue water sailors who are so self-enamored that they > > wouldn't recognize a 'good idea' not their own, if it smacked them > up > > the side of the head like free swinging boom during an unplanned > jibe. > > Unfortunately, this happens a lot with sailing authors....and a few > > designers. > > > > One of the reasons I was drawn to this group was the frankness with > > which Brent expresses his opinions. You could do a lot worse than > > ordering his book, and reading his posts in this group. Just > remember, > > Brent doesn't like to drink, doesn't like to cook fancy, doesn't > care > > much for regulatory authority or sea going company (on his own > boat:), > > and seems to have a very deep seated aversion to 'sailor BS'. What > he > > does like are truly functional things that are elegant in the > > simplicity of their design and construction, things that have > > demonstrated their utility and longevity under real life sea > > conditions, and designs and construction techniques that have proven > > over time to NOT deposit your 'azzz---pirations' on the sea floor. > > > > I would also read some of the heavy weather sailing books, they > often > > talk about things that work when you need them to work, and again, > > most are written by people who were there, Adlard Coles' book is a > > good start. > > > > Lastly, spend as much time as you can hanging round boats and boat > > people. When you find someone whos been out there, listen a lot, ask > > as many questions as you can get away with, and don't leave out the > > guys who work on the sea for a living. When a good idea comes up, > > generally it will rocket thru a commercial fleet in short order. > > > > Good luck in your search, and remember, you're not the first to have > > this 'dream', you won't be the last. Many have spent years, > dreaming, > > designing and then building. Fitting out, setting out and then > finding > > out the dream wasn't all it was cracked up to be. There are > literally > > tons of 'dream ships' for sail at sacrifice prices in the harbors of > > pretty much any significant cruising destination....so... my last > > piece of advice...get out there and go sailing, on someone else's > boat > > :) You want to make sure the light at the end of your tunnel is > > shining from a boat :) > > > > seer > > > | 10732|10715|2006-03-19 21:51:46|khooper_fboats|Re: Seeking wisdom, guidance, advice etc etc etc|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "seeratlas" wrote: > There are over a thousand posts here, quite a few are worth reading. > Most aspects of what you are considering have been discussed here, and > assuming you can get the search engine to work, those discussions are > readily accessible. Actually there are well over 10,000 messages in the archive. Are people having trouble with it? It runs out of an old Mac hanging off a consumer-grade cable internet connection at my house (yes, you aspiring boatbuilders are competing for electrons with my daughters and their MP3 files). If necessary I can move it to a real hosting service. --Ken| 10735|10715|2006-03-20 06:18:13|cirejay|Re: Seeking wisdom, guidance, advice etc etc etc|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "khooper_fboats" wrote: > > Actually there are well over 10,000 messages in the archive. > > Are people having trouble with it? It runs out of an old Mac hanging > off a consumer-grade cable internet connection at my house (yes, you > aspiring boatbuilders are competing for electrons with my daughters > and their MP3 files). If necessary I can move it to a real hosting > service. Ken, I've had no problem with it and used it extensively when I first joined the group (still do, occasionally). Although most of us like to hear ourselves talk, that archive sure answered many questions that I did not have to ask. Thanks, eric S/V Nebaras| 10736|10715|2006-03-20 06:53:49|Alex Christie|Re: Seeking wisdom, guidance, advice etc etc etc|Ken can you repost the URL to your off-group searchable archive again? I think some people might be confused with the poor Yahoo archive searcher, which seems to not give all results. Thanks, Alex ----- Original Message ----- From: cirejay To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, March 20, 2006 3:17 AM Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Seeking wisdom, guidance, advice etc etc etc --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "khooper_fboats" wrote: > > Actually there are well over 10,000 messages in the archive. > > Are people having trouble with it? It runs out of an old Mac hanging > off a consumer-grade cable internet connection at my house (yes, you > aspiring boatbuilders are competing for electrons with my daughters > and their MP3 files). If necessary I can move it to a real hosting > service. Ken, I've had no problem with it and used it extensively when I first joined the group (still do, occasionally). Although most of us like to hear ourselves talk, that archive sure answered many questions that I did not have to ask. Thanks, eric S/V Nebaras To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com SPONSORED LINKS British columbia canada Vancouver island Yacht ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS a.. Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web. b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.2.5/284 - Release Date: 3/17/2006 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 10737|10737|2006-03-20 10:24:37|edward_stoneuk|Trim Tab Steering|Hi all, What is the preferred method of exiting the transom with the trim tab steering shaft that connects the trim tab to the pilot house steering apparatus? Is a shaft gland necessary? Regards, Ted| 10738|10715|2006-03-20 10:50:17|seeratlas|Re: Seeking wisdom, guidance, advice etc etc etc|Well, that's what i get for using old 'gaming' keyboards:) Lost a zero on that one :). seer --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "khooper_fboats" wrote: > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "seeratlas" wrote: > > > There are over a thousand posts here, quite a few are worth reading. > > Most aspects of what you are considering have been discussed here, and > > assuming you can get the search engine to work, those discussions are > > readily accessible. > > Actually there are well over 10,000 messages in the archive. > > Are people having trouble with it? It runs out of an old Mac hanging > off a consumer-grade cable internet connection at my house (yes, you > aspiring boatbuilders are competing for electrons with my daughters > and their MP3 files). If necessary I can move it to a real hosting > service. > > --Ken > | 10739|10737|2006-03-20 16:30:33|brentswain38|Re: Trim Tab Steering|I use a 1/2 inch sch 40 ss pipe for the shaft and run it thru a 1 inch sch 40 pipe nipple. Drill a hole in an SS 1 inch pipe cap, big enough for the 1/2 inch pipe to pass thru and you have a stuffing box. A perfect fit is unneccessary, just put whatever packing in that gives you a snug fit.It's only splashed , not submerged long term and instead of RPMs it does only tiny movements every few seconds. Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "edward_stoneuk" wrote: > > Hi all, > > What is the preferred method of exiting the transom with the trim tab > steering shaft that connects the trim tab to the pilot house steering > apparatus? Is a shaft gland necessary? > > Regards, > Ted > | 10740|10740|2006-03-20 18:07:31|tom|plasma cutter|Hello All Plasma cutters have come a long way and there a lot cheaper than they use to be. I've tried the millers in the past and I wasn't to impressed by them, well today I went by my welding supply place and the had the Hypertherm powermax 380 on sale so talking to the guy he talked me into buying it and I told him if it didn't work good I was going to bring it back so he could use it as a suppository, he laughed and said no problem you will like it. Well I got her home hooked it up and started cutting 3/16" stainless and I have to say I'm impressed, cuts like butter and real clean with no heat. I would have to say get one if you can there money well spent Tom [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]| 10741|10741|2006-03-20 18:29:36|SHANE ROTHWELL|Seeking Wisdom, Guidance etc|Andrew, For starters you have it ass end backwards. The term is "She who thinks she must be obeyed". Therefore, TELL the woman what YOU are going to do. If she wants to stick around - and you want her to stick around - carry on. If she does not want to stick around - you have just saved yourself years of heartbreak & bullshit. Other than that: 1. Go with steel with a diesel inboard 2. read Brent's book 3. never ever bring your wallet to the boat show & never buy anything from a boat show or broker of any kind unless it's raw steel to build the boat 4. think substance and function in all aspects, cosmetics about third and vanity about 43rd Oh ya, do some sailing, best reseach you can do Cheers, Shane __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com| 10742|10741|2006-03-20 21:22:25|cirejay|Re: Seeking Wisdom, Guidance etc|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, SHANE ROTHWELL wrote: > > Andrew, > > For starters you have it ass end backwards. The term > is "She who thinks she must be obeyed". Probably need a couple of glasses of Pomerol before he could get up the nerve to even think such and he'd still end up sleeping at the old Bailey.:-) eric S/V Nebaras| 10743|7433|2006-03-20 22:31:04|khooper_fboats|Origamiboats Searchable Archive Updated|The searchable archive has been updated to current as of 3/20/06 and now contains 10,723 messages. This page features an intelligent search engine and no advertisements. http://www.crazyface.net/origamiboats/index.html Please bookmark this site. A link has been placed in the Links section of the Origamiboats Yahoo Groups web site if you should forget the link. Regards, --Ken Hooper| 10744|10715|2006-03-21 09:09:31|audeojude|Re: Seeking wisdom, guidance, advice etc etc etc|Ken I have two dedicated servers sitting on the internet.. with slightly faster than T1 upstream bandwidth.. your welcome to put it out on them under my buildingyourboat.com domain you can email me at audeojude@... if your interested scott --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "khooper_fboats" wrote: > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "seeratlas" wrote: > > > There are over a thousand posts here, quite a few are worth reading. > > Most aspects of what you are considering have been discussed here, and > > assuming you can get the search engine to work, those discussions are > > readily accessible. > > Actually there are well over 10,000 messages in the archive. > > Are people having trouble with it? It runs out of an old Mac hanging > off a consumer-grade cable internet connection at my house (yes, you > aspiring boatbuilders are competing for electrons with my daughters > and their MP3 files). If necessary I can move it to a real hosting > service. > > --Ken > | 10745|10741|2006-03-21 23:29:31|mickeyolaf|Re: Seeking Wisdom, Guidance etc|I certainly agree with the wallet thing and the no go to shopping at boat shows. Those people are there to make a huge profit from you. We should all strive never to pay retail or even wholesale. And I know from the messages on this site that encouragement is given by all to build it yourself as cheaply as possible. But there has to be exceptions to the rule. I don't want to sit on a plastic bucket. I like a little comfort while reading the Boat Journal. I would like to have my showers hot. My water filtered. Winches. Ports that open. There are excellent products out there that if sought out can be found cheaply. It just takes time and relentless search. I have had parts in my basement for five years that are just about to see the light of day and salt water. I just bought a new complete aluminum boom for $350US. Reefing hooks, 3-1 internal purchase, 4 attachments for the traveller blocks etc. Three years I have been looking. Now I just have to find the matching mast for $450 and I am in business. --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, SHANE ROTHWELL wrote: > > Andrew, > > For starters you have it ass end backwards. The term > is "She who thinks she must be obeyed". Therefore, > TELL the woman what YOU are going to do. If she wants > to stick around - and you want her to stick around - > carry on. If she does not want to stick around - you > have just saved yourself years of heartbreak & > bullshit. > > Other than that: > 1. Go with steel with a diesel inboard > 2. read Brent's book > 3. never ever bring your wallet to the boat show & > never buy anything from a boat show or broker of any > kind unless it's raw steel to build the boat > 4. think substance and function in all aspects, > cosmetics about third and vanity about 43rd > > Oh ya, do some sailing, best reseach you can do > > Cheers, > Shane > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > | 10746|10741|2006-03-22 08:41:22|Carl Volkwein|Re: Seeking Wisdom, Guidance etc|Mickey, Good job scrounging. But don't you make masts out of cedar trees? mickeyolaf wrote: I certainly agree with the wallet thing and the no go to shopping at boat shows. Those people are there to make a huge profit from you. We should all strive never to pay retail or even wholesale. And I know from the messages on this site that encouragement is given by all to build it yourself as cheaply as possible. But there has to be exceptions to the rule. I don't want to sit on a plastic bucket. I like a little comfort while reading the Boat Journal. I would like to have my showers hot. My water filtered. Winches. Ports that open. There are excellent products out there that if sought out can be found cheaply. It just takes time and relentless search. I have had parts in my basement for five years that are just about to see the light of day and salt water. I just bought a new complete aluminum boom for $350US. Reefing hooks, 3-1 internal purchase, 4 attachments for the traveller blocks etc. Three years I have been looking. Now I just have to find the matching mast for $450 and I am in business. --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, SHANE ROTHWELL wrote: > > Andrew, > > For starters you have it ass end backwards. The term > is "She who thinks she must be obeyed". Therefore, > TELL the woman what YOU are going to do. If she wants > to stick around - and you want her to stick around - > carry on. If she does not want to stick around - you > have just saved yourself years of heartbreak & > bullshit. > > Other than that: > 1. Go with steel with a diesel inboard > 2. read Brent's book > 3. never ever bring your wallet to the boat show & > never buy anything from a boat show or broker of any > kind unless it's raw steel to build the boat > 4. think substance and function in all aspects, > cosmetics about third and vanity about 43rd > > Oh ya, do some sailing, best reseach you can do > > Cheers, > Shane > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com SPONSORED LINKS British columbia canada Vancouver island Yacht --------------------------------- YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. --------------------------------- --------------------------------- Yahoo! Travel Find great deals to the top 10 hottest destinations! [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 10747|10715|2006-03-22 09:02:44|Carl Volkwein|Re: Seeking wisdom, guidance, advice etc etc etc|Gary wrote: Hi Brent... as Red Green says... "If they can't find you handsome, at least they can find you handy".. Gary --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "brentswain38" wrote: > > Right on all points but one. I've occasionally enjoyed female > company on my boat, more so now that I'm old enough to not allow > hormones to spoil a trip for anyone. I haven't enjoyed the head games > of seeking out such company tho, so I don't bother with the chase > any more. > Brent > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "seeratlas" > wrote: > > > > I think you're on the right path. > > > > There are over a thousand posts here, quite a few are worth reading. > > Most aspects of what you are considering have been discussed here, > and > > assuming you can get the search engine to work, those discussions > are > > readily accessible. > > > > Couple of 'advisories'. In my own personal opinion, nothing beats > > advice from someone who's actually been there done that. The > sailing > > world is absolutely full of 'theorists' of all stripes, and EVERYONE > > you encounter is likely to have an often passionate opinion on every > > aspect of sailing, whether they know what the hell they are talking > > about or not. > > > > Having said that, beware those who are so ingrained in their own > > thinking that they either cannot or will not consider 'on the > merits' > > someone else's opinions or ideas. I can think of several very > > experienced blue water sailors who are so self-enamored that they > > wouldn't recognize a 'good idea' not their own, if it smacked them > up > > the side of the head like free swinging boom during an unplanned > jibe. > > Unfortunately, this happens a lot with sailing authors....and a few > > designers. > > > > One of the reasons I was drawn to this group was the frankness with > > which Brent expresses his opinions. You could do a lot worse than > > ordering his book, and reading his posts in this group. Just > remember, > > Brent doesn't like to drink, doesn't like to cook fancy, doesn't > care > > much for regulatory authority or sea going company (on his own > boat:), > > and seems to have a very deep seated aversion to 'sailor BS'. What > he > > does like are truly functional things that are elegant in the > > simplicity of their design and construction, things that have > > demonstrated their utility and longevity under real life sea > > conditions, and designs and construction techniques that have proven > > over time to NOT deposit your 'azzz---pirations' on the sea floor. > > > > I would also read some of the heavy weather sailing books, they > often > > talk about things that work when you need them to work, and again, > > most are written by people who were there, Adlard Coles' book is a > > good start. > > > > Lastly, spend as much time as you can hanging round boats and boat > > people. When you find someone whos been out there, listen a lot, ask > > as many questions as you can get away with, and don't leave out the > > guys who work on the sea for a living. When a good idea comes up, > > generally it will rocket thru a commercial fleet in short order. > > > > Good luck in your search, and remember, you're not the first to have > > this 'dream', you won't be the last. Many have spent years, > dreaming, > > designing and then building. Fitting out, setting out and then > finding > > out the dream wasn't all it was cracked up to be. There are > literally > > tons of 'dream ships' for sail at sacrifice prices in the harbors of > > pretty much any significant cruising destination....so... my last > > piece of advice...get out there and go sailing, on someone else's > boat > > :) You want to make sure the light at the end of your tunnel is > > shining from a boat :) > > > > seer > >When I see a light comming from a tunnel, I first look down to make sure no railroad tracks are down there. Carl from W.V. > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com SPONSORED LINKS British columbia canada Vancouver island Yacht --------------------------------- YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. --------------------------------- --------------------------------- Brings words and photos together (easily) with PhotoMail - it's free and works with Yahoo! Mail. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]| 10748|9840|2006-03-22 09:06:41|Carl Volkwein|Re: BS 26|They work great on high powered speed boats, like big V-8s and you're rite they don't give great gas mileage. Carl from W.V. tom wrote: Hello Denis From what I know on jet drives on boats, I have worked on a few and have friends that own them, They are not to efficient they loose 30 to 40% HP compared to a prop. The only reason I know anyone runs them is for shallow water and there sure not maintenance free, most the ones I know of the guys spend a lot of money on to keep them going + take a barrel of gas along just to go one day. Tom ----- Original Message ----- From: "Denis Buggy" To: Sent: Sunday, March 19, 2006 10:58 AM Subject: Re: [origamiboats] BS 26 > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > hello all . what i wonder is the prevailing wisdom of fitting a waterjet > propulsion versus the prop . in a motor yacht there seems to be advantages > if your boat is designed with a waterjet as the design propulsion , the > advantage with a sailboat would seem to be that you could spec a proper > propellor to suit engine and boat instead of using a feathering prop > which does neither feather or prop the boat well . no gearbox or clutch > is required with the waterjet as you merely > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > deflect the water flow as an aircraft does with engine thrust it will > stop the boat in its own length and you can drive it up on the beach as > the prop is in board . does anybody have an opinion re drag as there is > only a grill fitted flush with the hull , no shaft , no cutlass bearing no > prop drag . > re the volvo engine saga , i enquired and the volvo car has an itilian > diesel engine which does not enjoy a good name you all are correct in this > , however if you can lay your hands on a true volvo engine with wet liners > and seperate cast iron heads you will never need another engine as > previously posted on this group . > on another topic i have been following where the mega bucks are being > spent on hull research and the high speed catamaran is state of the art > for the past 10 years with refining of the wave piercing bow and the > forward t foil which is controlled by on board computer to prevent hobby > horsing in rough seas being given plenty of "refining " this work is > driven by military dollars and the pace of progress is very rapid as the > austrailian navy moved a battillion at forty eight knots to sumatra > versus the us navy normal twelve and caused a major review of all naval > thinking since , all plans are now geared to a boxy stealth 50 knot vessel > some have been made of carbon fiber totally and can still fight and sail > after being mined . > the main suppliers are the incat co and austal co of austraila and the > newest biggest multihull in the world is no longer a catamaran it is fred > olsen lines ferry between the gran canaries and spain and is a trimaran > as the cat ferries could not cope with rough seas . our own high speed > ship on the irish sea H.S.S. now stands for "hope she sails ". > fred olsens site states that there is up to a 40 % increase in > passenger comfort with the tri cioncept and it can handel the rough . > hull research has now moved on driven by the prospect of mega bucks > from the military . regards denis > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Yahoo! 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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 10749|10749|2006-03-22 11:51:53|Puck III|-- The Thing --|FREE Plans for a stunning fast , light Origami dinghy , a headturner everywhere , nice paintjob :-) Jaws is back ! http://www.svensons.com/boat/?p=MechanixIllustrated/TheThing Cheap to build fast reconnaisance dinghy for use on Vietnam's shores and rivers ,ad a camouflage tent and she becomes a neat campingcruiser,you may attract some attention! A smile from time to time... Old Ben| 10750|10749|2006-03-22 16:52:00|aaron riis|ferry sinking|I've got a story that you are probably all interested in. About five years ago I started building my Brent Swain 26 in Terrace BC, inland from Prince Rupert about two hours. Life took some unexpected turns and I ended up leaving the project for four years. I moved to Haida Gwaii,(queen charlotte islands), fell in love, started a family, building a house currently. I started the project on land that my parents owned, so fortunately I didn't have to pay rent on the space. Just over a year ago now, sadly my father passed away. On March 5 of this year, my boat was tralered from terrace to Prince Rupert and in to the belly of the BC ferry Queen of the North. Having lived most of my life on the BC coast, I have been travelling on this ferry since I was Nine years old. This morning that ferry sank. Had it sank with my boat aboard, I guess that that would be the first Brent Swain design to sink! Living here, is a very isolated place. All of our groceries are brought in trucks on that ferry. People are lining up at the grocery store to stockpile food. I am grateful to have the boat here, with the transportation future of these Islands of 5,ooo population uncertatin, having my own boat may be handy in the future.. I'm sure that a barge will take over the freight, but I cannot afford the price to fly off island very often. I would like to take a moment to pray that the two missing people are okay. Take care all Aaron Riis --- Puck III wrote: > FREE Plans for a stunning fast , light Origami > dinghy , > a headturner everywhere , nice paintjob :-) > Jaws is back ! > http://www.svensons.com/boat/?p=MechanixIllustrated/TheThing > > Cheap to build fast reconnaisance dinghy for use on > Vietnam's shores and rivers ,ad a camouflage tent > and she >becomes a neat campingcruiser,you may attract some > attention! > > A smile from time to time... > Old Ben > > > > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com| 10751|10751|2006-03-22 16:52:41|SHANE ROTHWELL|Star Globe|Gentlemen, A geourgoius piece of nauticalia up for grabs at the Bc gov't site. someithing like www.bcauction.ca. A mignificent star map presently at $300, auction ends 29th, item # a4591 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com| 10752|10740|2006-03-22 17:22:42|Alex Christie|Re: plasma cutter|I agree with Tom. Hypertherm is also the brand my boatbuilding site landlord/welder replaced his crapped out Miller with. Both machines are supposed to be rated for 3/8th inch cutting at a good clip, but the real test was on 1/2" material (just because they say 3/8ths doesn't mean it won't cut 1/2 inch it's just that it will not be at commercially viable cut speeds). The Hypertherm outpaced the Miller on all counts, with nice clean cuts on half inch stainless which is a challenge to cut at the best of times. Since most cutting on these boats is 3/16th inch, a unit like that would be all you need, and you can well afford to slow down and let the machine do it's job on thicker stuff. These things used to be at least $2700 for a Miller. The Hypertherm I believe was about $1700 and I think it was also the 380. Alex ----- Original Message ----- From: tom To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, March 20, 2006 3:06 PM Subject: [origamiboats] plasma cutter Hello All Plasma cutters have come a long way and there a lot cheaper than they use to be. I've tried the millers in the past and I wasn't to impressed by them, well today I went by my welding supply place and the had the Hypertherm powermax 380 on sale so talking to the guy he talked me into buying it and I told him if it didn't work good I was going to bring it back so he could use it as a suppository, he laughed and said no problem you will like it. Well I got her home hooked it up and started cutting 3/16" stainless and I have to say I'm impressed, cuts like butter and real clean with no heat. I would have to say get one if you can there money well spent Tom [ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 10753|10753|2006-03-22 17:29:37|Alex Christie|from workboat to gold-plater|I like the diversity of what people have done with these boats, which is the beauty of custom boatbuilding. Swain boats I have seen run the gamut from belt-n-suspenders rough'n'ready to full on gold-platers -- including hot n cold running water (bosch on deman propane water heater...and I found one cheap too, for my boat!). Alex [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]| 10754|10749|2006-03-22 19:09:07|brentswain38|Re: ferry sinking|Aaron Are you planning to finish the boat on the Charlottes? How far along are you? You are lucky to live where there is such an abundance of four legged grocery carts walking around.People there may run out of urban luxuries, but they will never run out of food. Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, aaron riis wrote: > > > I've got a story that you are probably all interested > in. About five years ago I started building my Brent > Swain 26 in Terrace BC, inland from Prince Rupert > about two hours. Life took some unexpected turns and > I ended up leaving the project for four years. I > moved to Haida Gwaii,(queen charlotte islands), fell > in love, started a family, building a house currently. > I started the project on land that my parents owned, > so fortunately I didn't have to pay rent on the space. > Just over a year ago now, sadly my father passed > away. On March 5 of this year, my boat was tralered > from terrace to Prince Rupert and in to the belly of > the BC ferry Queen of the North. Having lived most of > my life on the BC coast, I have been travelling on > this ferry since I was Nine years old. This morning > that ferry sank. Had it sank with my boat aboard, I > guess that that would be the first Brent Swain design > to sink! Living here, is a very isolated place. All > of our groceries are brought in trucks on that ferry. > People are lining up at the grocery store to stockpile > food. I am grateful to have the boat here, with the > transportation future of these Islands of 5,ooo > population uncertatin, having my own boat may be handy > in the future.. I'm sure that a barge will take over > the freight, but I cannot afford the price to fly off > island very often. I would like to take a moment to > pray that the two missing people are okay. > > Take care all > > Aaron Riis > --- Puck III wrote: > > > FREE Plans for a stunning fast , light Origami > > dinghy , > > a headturner everywhere , nice paintjob :-) > > Jaws is back ! > > > http://www.svensons.com/boat/?p=MechanixIllustrated/TheThing > > > > Cheap to build fast reconnaisance dinghy for use on > > Vietnam's shores and rivers ,ad a camouflage tent > > and she > >becomes a neat campingcruiser,you may attract some > > attention! > > > > A smile from time to time... > > Old Ben > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > | 10755|10755|2006-03-22 19:12:49|brentswain38|Where are you|I just received mail from a guy named Gary Maceoin. He didn't say what state, or city he was from. If he is watching, could he please email me this info. Brent| 10756|10749|2006-03-22 20:37:36|Puck III|Re: ferry sinking|Hi Aaron , what a story . I Googled the Charlottes , cause I wanted to learn a bit more and some pics say so much : http://www.bcadventure.com/adventure/explore/north/qcharlotte.html What splendid surroundings to start a family . Best wishes for the future and succes with building the house and finishing the boat . Best regards from Belgium Old Ben --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, aaron riis wrote: > > > I've got a story that you are probably all interested > in. About five years ago I started building my Brent > Swain 26 in Terrace BC, inland from Prince Rupert > about two hours. Life took some unexpected turns and > I ended up leaving the project for four years. I > moved to Haida Gwaii,(queen charlotte islands), fell > in love, started a family, building a house currently. > I started the project on land that my parents owned, > so fortunately I didn't have to pay rent on the space. > Just over a year ago now, sadly my father passed > away. On March 5 of this year, my boat was tralered > from terrace to Prince Rupert and in to the belly of > the BC ferry Queen of the North. Having lived most of > my life on the BC coast, I have been travelling on > this ferry since I was Nine years old. This morning > that ferry sank. Had it sank with my boat aboard, I > guess that that would be the first Brent Swain design > to sink! Living here, is a very isolated place. All > of our groceries are brought in trucks on that ferry. > People are lining up at the grocery store to stockpile > food. I am grateful to have the boat here, with the > transportation future of these Islands of 5,ooo > population uncertatin, having my own boat may be handy > in the future.. I'm sure that a barge will take over > the freight, but I cannot afford the price to fly off > island very often. I would like to take a moment to > pray that the two missing people are okay. > > Take care all > > Aaron Riis > --- Puck III wrote: > > > FREE Plans for a stunning fast , light Origami > > dinghy , > > a headturner everywhere , nice paintjob :-) > > Jaws is back ! > > > http://www.svensons.com/boat/?p=MechanixIllustrated/TheThing > > > > Cheap to build fast reconnaisance dinghy for use on > > Vietnam's shores and rivers ,ad a camouflage tent > > and she > >becomes a neat campingcruiser,you may attract some > > attention! > > > > A smile from time to time... > > Old Ben > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > | 10757|10749|2006-03-22 22:48:04|aaron riis|Re: ferry sinking|Brent, your right, it would be pretty hard to starve here, a few days ago, I took a wheelbarrow to the beach and filled it half fullof shellfish that the storm tossed on the beach. The boat is a bare shell still, maybe a few weeks left of detail welding. I'm still a little unsure how to get the boat foamed here, maybe a kit, or partial peice in. Little by little. Right now I'm going treeplanting for a few months. Hope to get it painted this summer. the first thing that I have to do is get a 220 breaker wired in for my welder. Aaron --- brentswain38 wrote: > Aaron > Are you planning to finish the boat on the > Charlottes? How far > along are you? > You are lucky to live where there is such an > abundance of four > legged grocery carts walking around.People there may > run out of > urban luxuries, but they will never run out of food. > Brent > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, aaron riis > > wrote: > > > > > > I've got a story that you are probably all > interested > > in. About five years ago I started building my > Brent > > Swain 26 in Terrace BC, inland from Prince Rupert > > about two hours. Life took some unexpected turns > and > > I ended up leaving the project for four years. I > > moved to Haida Gwaii,(queen charlotte islands), > fell > > in love, started a family, building a house > currently. > > I started the project on land that my parents > owned, > > so fortunately I didn't have to pay rent on the > space. > > Just over a year ago now, sadly my father passed > > away. On March 5 of this year, my boat was > tralered > > from terrace to Prince Rupert and in to the belly > of > > the BC ferry Queen of the North. Having lived > most of > > my life on the BC coast, I have been travelling on > > this ferry since I was Nine years old. This > morning > > that ferry sank. Had it sank with my boat aboard, > I > > guess that that would be the first Brent Swain > design > > to sink! Living here, is a very isolated place. > All > > of our groceries are brought in trucks on that > ferry. > > People are lining up at the grocery store to > stockpile > > food. I am grateful to have the boat here, with > the > > transportation future of these Islands of 5,ooo > > population uncertatin, having my own boat may be > handy > > in the future.. I'm sure that a barge will take > over > > the freight, but I cannot afford the price to fly > off > > island very often. I would like to take a moment > to > > pray that the two missing people are okay. > > > > Take care all > > > > Aaron Riis > > --- Puck III wrote: > > > > > FREE Plans for a stunning fast , light Origami > > > dinghy , > > > a headturner everywhere , nice paintjob :-) > > > Jaws is back ! > > > > > > http://www.svensons.com/boat/?p=MechanixIllustrated/TheThing > > > > > > Cheap to build fast reconnaisance dinghy for use > on > > > Vietnam's shores and rivers ,ad a camouflage > tent > > > and she > > >becomes a neat campingcruiser,you may attract > some > > > attention! > > > > > > A smile from time to time... > > > Old Ben > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > > Do You Yahoo!? > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam > protection around > > http://mail.yahoo.com > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com| 10758|10758|2006-03-23 06:35:53|whitehorze|Hull flexing under load?|Hello all. I just joined so if this topic has been beaten to death before please exscuse my ignorance. Under hard loads, Rough seas and a full sail, How much does the stressed hull design of these boats flex? Granted with the deck welded on the design is pretty stiff but under point loads (quartering through a heavy wave), isn't there some twisting along the keel line? Thanks...| 10759|10758|2006-03-23 18:17:36|brentswain38|Re: Hull flexing under load?|There is no measureable twisting. I once had a twist in the hull that I couldn't see, but the owner insisted was there, after we had tacked the cockpit seats and all the decks on. We broke a three ton comealong trying to gey it to twist what was about 1/16th of an inch, without it moving at all . A hydraulic jack couldn't get it to twist. There is no noticeable flexing. Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "whitehorze" wrote: > > Hello all. I just joined so if this topic has been beaten to death > before please exscuse my ignorance. > > Under hard loads, Rough seas and a full sail, How much does the > stressed hull design of these boats flex? Granted with the deck welded > on the design is pretty stiff but under point loads (quartering through > a heavy wave), isn't there some twisting along the keel line? > > Thanks... > | 10760|10760|2006-03-23 18:19:35|brentswain38|26 footer single keel|I just drew up an updated single keel for the 26 footer , slightly larger with a bit of tankage in it. Anyone with 26 footer plans who is considering a single keel should email me for a copy. Brent| 10761|10761|2006-03-23 18:25:54|brentswain38|26 ft single keel plans|I just drew up an updated drawing for a single keel for the 26 footer , with a bitof tankage in it. Anyone with a set of 26 plans who plans to go for a single keel should contact me by email.I tried to scan it in but it didn't work. Brent| 10762|10762|2006-03-24 02:53:19|henry lee|Your next date is just a click away...|Your next date is just a click away... http://www.geocities.com/romanticloveclub --------------------------------- Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. PC-to-Phone calls for ridiculously low rates. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]| 10763|22|2006-03-24 05:22:12|origamiboats@yahoogroups.com|New file uploaded to origamiboats |Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the origamiboats group. File : /petitepe.mpeg Uploaded by : ben_azo Description : Fishing can be risky :-) You can access this file at the URL: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/files/petitepe.mpeg To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit: http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files Regards, ben_azo | 10764|10762|2006-03-24 05:29:39|Puck III|Re: Your next date is just a click away... ...... Fishing Alternati|Hehehe , dont believe this ..... I put my best pic on , only a whale responded :-) I'd rarther go fishing...... On the other hand...........fishing can be dangerous to !!! Just saw that scaring video :-) Have a nice weekend ALL . Old Ben --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, henry lee wrote: > > Your next date is just a click away... > http://www.geocities.com/romanticloveclub > > --------------------------------- > Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. PC-to-Phone calls for ridiculously low rates. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > | 10765|10762|2006-03-24 10:28:42|seeratlas|Re: Your next date is just a click away... ...... Fishing Alternati|Ben, I once had occasion to check out the local library when doing some research on sharks off the coast of California. Well one book was very interesting. Author went on and on about how he'd been out with sharks and observed their behavior, that they weren't as agressive as everyone said, they were being 'demonized' yada yada yada...sounded very impressive and reassuring to a diver like me. Then I got to the postcript...by his widow....hehehhehe (this is absolutely true folks) She describes how he went out in his little boat(14 to 17ft i think) and didn't come back. A search was commenced and they found the boat awash, big chunks out of the wooden sides, an oar bitten in too and no trace whatsoever of our author. Straight out of Jaws but apparently true as the book was copyrighted by the "Estate of .......". Now, I tell you that story to tell you this one regarding your fishing. I was out with my father, and brother in an 18 ft. bowrider type tri hull back in the late sixties off of one of the channel islands north of Catalina. We had been having some success with bonita, when about a 5 foot blue shark latched onto one of our fish just as we were about to get him in the boat. My brother started cussing and brought out the "Meat Pole", i.e. short, HEAVY rod, rollers on the guides, and sporting a Huge Penn Reel with about 130 lb braided dacron line, and a six foot stainless wire leader. He rigged it up and of course the shark latched on. He pulled him up the stern rail and commenced to try to beat him to death with the billy club. That didn't work very well, so he picked up the emergency axe and started whacking...blood flying everywhere...(my brother hates to lose a fish heheheh). Next thing I know, straight out of the movie, this HUGE mouth comes up from nowhere and takes the entire 5 ft. shark like the porpoise at marineland take a mullet from the trainer...My father fell over backwards (away from the rail) and my brother wisely cut the line as the big white slid back into the sea. When he circled the boat and came alongside, his tail was still behind the stern and his dorsal was about where I was standing at the wheel. His nose was several feet in front of the boat. I promptly started the engine and away we went.... moral of the story, don't fish for things bigger than your boat:) seer --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Puck III" wrote: > > Hehehe , dont believe this ..... I put my best pic on , > only a whale responded :-) > I'd rarther go fishing...... > On the other hand...........fishing can be dangerous to !!! > Just saw that scaring video :-) > > Have a nice weekend ALL . > > Old Ben > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, henry lee wrote: > > > > Your next date is just a click away... > > http://www.geocities.com/romanticloveclub > > > > --------------------------------- > > Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. PC-to-Phone calls for ridiculously low > rates. > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > | 10766|10474|2006-03-24 21:20:38|maturewoman5225|Looking for a better SEX partner!|I'm a hot single, I'm looking for a better SEX partner! Check my live webcams and hot SEXY photos here: http://findsexysingle.com/sex/hotcam.htm| 10767|10474|2006-03-25 07:25:01|cirejay|Re: Looking for a better SEX partner!|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "maturewoman5225" wrote: > > I'm a hot single, I'm looking for a better SEX partner! Check my live > webcams and hot SEXY photos here: > http://findsexysingle.com/sex/hotcam.htm > Now, here's one for you, Ben :-) eric S/V Nebaras| 10768|10768|2006-03-28 01:51:33|Jon & Wanda(Tink)|Where did everyone go|Where did everyone go did you all go to find a new partner and can she weld or sandblast LOL Jon| 10769|10768|2006-03-28 07:38:16|sae140|Novel drive: was, Where did everyone go ?|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Jon & Wanda(Tink)" wrote: > > Where did everyone go did you all go to find a new partner and can she > weld or sandblast LOL > > Jon > Well, as it's a bit quiet - maybe this is a good time to air an idea I've been having re: a new kind of boat drive. A few weeks back I posted about a Seagull outboard leg making a good auxillary sailboat drive, as the bigger Seagulls use large props and 4:1 gearing. Someone suggested lifting the leg up vertically to clear the water. Brent later posted about controlling the rudder's trim-tab with a rod poked through the transom .... So - putting these diverse ideas together and mashing 'em around, the ageing cerebral computer came up with the following: Seagull-style outboard leg with a right-angle drive fitted in place of the engine. This drive is then taken straight through the transom, above the water-line. Then connected to conventional marine engine/gearbox via UJ or CV joints. To get the prop out of the water, the leg is *rotated* upwards. The advantages of this system are: one less through-hull and the possibility of no through-hull openings whatsoever below the water-line. The prop can be lifted clear of the water when sailing - no prop drag whatsoever. Probably no need for anodes to protect the prop, as it will no longer be subjected to continuous immersion. Weight at the blunt end will be less then that of an equivalent outboard. Larger multi-bladed props that would otherwise be unsuitable for sailboats can now be used. Much lighter than, and much cheaper than Z-drives with their expensive rubber boots and other parts. No big hole cut in the transom either. The disadvantages are: a prop sticking up in the air won't look any too pretty, so no good for floating gin-palaces. But for cruising sailboats ? A Seagull leg will lose it's oil when inverted, so sadly these can't be used 'as is'. There's a need for lip-seals to prevent oil loss, so we're talking custom fabrication. But right-angle gearboxes are standard industrial items. Location of the drive will be to one side of the rudder - the side being chosen to offset prop-walk to give a basic 'boat pusher' configuration. However, by allowing the leg to swing 'over-centre' and into a cavity cut into the rudder to allow prop-wash to flow over the rudder blade, better steering efficiency under power would result. But why hasn't this been thought of before ? Well, I found out yesterday that it has. US Patent 187407 (from an Englishman - wacky drives obviously being an English thing !) was filed back in the 1950's. I've uploaded a couple of pics into OrigamiBoats2/Files/Transom Drive which show the basic principle. Colin| 10770|10768|2006-03-28 07:50:19|tom|Re: Where did everyone go|Thats a good question, I was wondering that myself ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jon & Wanda(Tink)" To: Sent: Monday, March 27, 2006 10:51 PM Subject: [origamiboats] Where did everyone go > Where did everyone go did you all go to find a new partner and can she > weld or sandblast LOL > > Jon > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > | 10771|10771|2006-03-28 08:54:26|tom|BS 26 progress|Hello All Progress has been a little slow with the weather here on the west coast. I finally got a full day to work on it and she is coming along, finished the side deck braces and tack welded props from the top stringer to deck beams to keep them in profile but the inside deck edge was still wavy so I tacked angle irons on top and it kept the deck nice and even all the way back. The cabin sides I left over size and tacked to the inside edge of decks, seemed a little easier than trying to fit to top of deck, especially since I'm running a little more angle on the sides. At first I was going to keep the cabin one level all the way back but after mocking it up it didn't look right. to tall and boxy, so I'm following what's on the plan looks better and gives the boat caricature. Anyway that's about it for now and I did post a couple more pictures in origamiboats2 . Is anyone else building at the moment ? Tom [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]| 10772|10771|2006-03-28 15:25:50|Gerd|Re: BS 26 progress|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "tom" wrote: > Is anyone else building at the moment ? the snow is finally gone and temperatures jumped up almost 20 dg celsius in the last couple of days, so next wekend I am goin' to hit the rustpile again. Just checked my website, have not done anything since september on my own boat. I spent all winter designing and more recently getting the ROVER 36 started, my friend Karoly has finished tracing and cutting the hullsides, is now tacking the stringers on and wants me to come around to hep him pull the hull together. so, come saturday, it's either his boat or my boat, but in any case, WINTER IS OVER!! ;-) Gerd the Yago Project at http://www.justmueller.com/boats/| 10773|10773|2006-03-28 20:36:25|tazmannusa|BS 26 Steel Mast|Hello All Made up a one foot mast section in steel today to make sure its doable and no problem. used 16 gage and 3/8" pipe for luff grove. the section measures 3-1/2" wide x 5-1/4" long and the weight was exactly 3 pound for the one foot section. I think I will use 1/2" pipe instead of 3/8" and recess it a little more in the mast. The 1/2" pipe has a 5/8" insde diameter and I think it will work a little better and only add a little under a 1/4 pound a foot. So the bare mast will weigh 107 pounds with luff grove, pretty cose to the same weight as a sitka spruce mast with mainsail track attached. As far as price for materials its around $200 for 2 lenths of 1/2" stainless pipe and the 16 gage galvanized sheets. I posted a couple picture of it in origamiboats2 and I welcome any input on the idea Tom| 10774|10768|2006-03-28 20:58:05|Gary H. Lucas|Re: Novel drive: was, Where did everyone go ?|So let's see, you still have all the worst features of an outboard, combined with all the worst features of an inboard. I think I see how this works, it's like Home Depot. Take the worst plumbing store, the worst electrical store, the worst flooring store, the worst garden center, put them all under one roof and you get? Gary H. Lucas ----- Original Message ----- From: "sae140" To: Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2006 7:36 AM Subject: [origamiboats] Novel drive: was, Where did everyone go ? > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Jon & Wanda(Tink)" > wrote: >> >> Where did everyone go did you all go to find a new partner and can > she >> weld or sandblast LOL >> >> Jon >> > > > Well, as it's a bit quiet - maybe this is a good time to air > an idea I've been having re: a new kind of boat drive. > > A few weeks back I posted about a Seagull outboard leg making > a good auxillary sailboat drive, as the bigger Seagulls use > large props and 4:1 gearing. Someone suggested lifting the leg > up vertically to clear the water. Brent later posted about > controlling the rudder's trim-tab with a rod poked through > the transom .... > > So - putting these diverse ideas together and mashing 'em > around, the ageing cerebral computer came up with the > following: > > Seagull-style outboard leg with a right-angle drive fitted > in place of the engine. This drive is then taken straight > through the transom, above the water-line. Then connected > to conventional marine engine/gearbox via UJ or CV joints. > To get the prop out of the water, the leg is *rotated* upwards. > > The advantages of this system are: one less through-hull and > the possibility of no through-hull openings whatsoever below > the water-line. The prop can be lifted clear of the water > when sailing - no prop drag whatsoever. Probably no need for > anodes to protect the prop, as it will no longer be subjected > to continuous immersion. Weight at the blunt end will be > less then that of an equivalent outboard. Larger multi-bladed > props that would otherwise be unsuitable for sailboats can now > be used. Much lighter than, and much cheaper than Z-drives > with their expensive rubber boots and other parts. No big > hole cut in the transom either. > > The disadvantages are: a prop sticking up in the air won't > look any too pretty, so no good for floating gin-palaces. But > for cruising sailboats ? > A Seagull leg will lose it's oil when inverted, so sadly these > can't be used 'as is'. There's a need for lip-seals to prevent > oil loss, so we're talking custom fabrication. But right-angle > gearboxes are standard industrial items. > > Location of the drive will be to one side of the rudder - the > side being chosen to offset prop-walk to give a basic 'boat > pusher' configuration. However, by allowing the leg to swing > 'over-centre' and into a cavity cut into the rudder to allow > prop-wash to flow over the rudder blade, better steering > efficiency under power would result. > > But why hasn't this been thought of before ? Well, I found > out yesterday that it has. > US Patent 187407 (from an Englishman - wacky drives obviously > being an English thing !) was filed back in the 1950's. I've > uploaded a couple of pics into OrigamiBoats2/Files/Transom Drive > which show the basic principle. > > Colin > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > | 10775|10775|2006-03-28 22:40:05|John Langelo|Re: B.S. 26 progress|I'm s-l-o-w-l-y building a Origamiboat in Duncan on Vancouver Island. Actually I've taken over the project that some one else has started. It's been a real challenge trying to match the workmanship that's already been put in this boat. The boat is a modified B.S. 31? With a fin keel and skeg cooling. --------------------------------- 7 bucks a month. This is Huge Yahoo! Music Unlimited [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]| 10776|10776|2006-03-29 01:07:59|rabadash23|looking for a boat|I am getting ready for a life change and I am going to sale my house to buy a blue water sailboat. It was sugested to me that a steel hulled boat may be a good choice for the budgetminded cruiser. couldsome one help direct me in types of boats that are steel| 10777|13|2006-03-30 09:32:43|shawnbantingkillam|Re: Brents book|Brent is this still the correct address and price for your book? thx shawn --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, brentswain38@... wrote: > > Richard > For a copy of my book "How to Build a Better Steel Boat a Heretic's > Guide" 100 pages Paperback illustrated ,please send $20 plus $3 for > postage to Suite #427 1434 Island Highway Campbell River BC Canada > V9W8C9 > Thanks > Brent Swain > > > > > --- In origamiboats@y..., sunyataspirit@y... wrote: > > > > Hi Alex, Just wondering if you could get the address to order the > book from Brent, price, mailing cost etc. The group seems to be > growing nicely and new 'photos will be welcomed. (Any word from Gene > yet?, he should be getting started again soon.) > > > > Regards, > > > > Richard > | 10778|10773|2006-03-31 00:22:39|jnikadie|Re: BS 26 Steel Mast|Tom, Mast section looks great ... quite professional! How tall is the mast going to be, and how do you intend to scale your model up (e.g. really big break-press or weld smaller sections together)? J. --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "tazmannusa" wrote: > > Hello All > Made up a one foot mast section in steel today to make sure its > doable and no problem. used 16 gage and 3/8" pipe for luff grove. the > section measures 3-1/2" wide x 5-1/4" long and the weight was exactly > 3 pound for the one foot section. I think I will use 1/2" pipe instead > of 3/8" and recess it a little more in the mast. The 1/2" pipe has a > 5/8" insde diameter and I think it will work a little better and only > add a little under a 1/4 pound a foot. So the bare mast will weigh 107 > pounds with luff grove, pretty cose to the same weight as a sitka > spruce mast with mainsail track attached. As far as price for > materials its around $200 for 2 lenths of 1/2" stainless pipe and the > 16 gage galvanized sheets. > I posted a couple picture of it in origamiboats2 and I welcome any > input on the idea > Tom > | 10779|10768|2006-03-31 05:58:13|sae140|Re: Novel drive: was, Where did everyone go ?|The worst features of an outboard being ... ? Well, the industry considers the vertical crankshaft to be the limiting feature of outboard engines - the basic design of which hasn't changed significantly since the 60's - to which I would add the weight at the stern and high up at that. So their casings are duly made from aluminium to counter this weight, and so you end up with a corrodable metal mix. There has also been the trend to use small, high-speed propellors, so that outboards could hopefully become a "one- size fits all" solution. But what I am suggesting avoids all of these issues. There's still the problem of right-angle gearing - which is inherent with all transom drives (except the Thai-style river boats). OK - so that's a negative. I have no idea what you mean by the worst features of an inboard engine - I can think of a few 'less than perfect features', but then there are lots of negatives to sailing boats if you go looking for 'em. Focus on negatives if you must. I prefer a more positive perspective. Colin --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Gary H. Lucas" wrote: > > So let's see, you still have all the worst features of an outboard, combined > with all the worst features of an inboard. I think I see how this works, > it's like Home Depot. Take the worst plumbing store, the worst electrical > store, the worst flooring store, the worst garden center, put them all under > one roof and you get? > > Gary H. Lucas > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "sae140" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2006 7:36 AM > Subject: [origamiboats] Novel drive: was, Where did everyone go ? > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Jon & Wanda(Tink)" > > wrote: > >> > >> Where did everyone go did you all go to find a new partner and can > > she > >> weld or sandblast LOL > >> > >> Jon > >> > > > > > > Well, as it's a bit quiet - maybe this is a good time to air > > an idea I've been having re: a new kind of boat drive. > > > > A few weeks back I posted about a Seagull outboard leg making > > a good auxillary sailboat drive, as the bigger Seagulls use > > large props and 4:1 gearing. Someone suggested lifting the leg > > up vertically to clear the water. Brent later posted about > > controlling the rudder's trim-tab with a rod poked through > > the transom .... > > > > So - putting these diverse ideas together and mashing 'em > > around, the ageing cerebral computer came up with the > > following: > > > > Seagull-style outboard leg with a right-angle drive fitted > > in place of the engine. This drive is then taken straight > > through the transom, above the water-line. Then connected > > to conventional marine engine/gearbox via UJ or CV joints. > > To get the prop out of the water, the leg is *rotated* upwards. > > > > The advantages of this system are: one less through-hull and > > the possibility of no through-hull openings whatsoever below > > the water-line. The prop can be lifted clear of the water > > when sailing - no prop drag whatsoever. Probably no need for > > anodes to protect the prop, as it will no longer be subjected > > to continuous immersion. Weight at the blunt end will be > > less then that of an equivalent outboard. Larger multi-bladed > > props that would otherwise be unsuitable for sailboats can now > > be used. Much lighter than, and much cheaper than Z-drives > > with their expensive rubber boots and other parts. No big > > hole cut in the transom either. > > > > The disadvantages are: a prop sticking up in the air won't > > look any too pretty, so no good for floating gin-palaces. But > > for cruising sailboats ? > > A Seagull leg will lose it's oil when inverted, so sadly these > > can't be used 'as is'. There's a need for lip-seals to prevent > > oil loss, so we're talking custom fabrication. But right-angle > > gearboxes are standard industrial items. > > > > Location of the drive will be to one side of the rudder - the > > side being chosen to offset prop-walk to give a basic 'boat > > pusher' configuration. However, by allowing the leg to swing > > 'over-centre' and into a cavity cut into the rudder to allow > > prop-wash to flow over the rudder blade, better steering > > efficiency under power would result. > > > > But why hasn't this been thought of before ? Well, I found > > out yesterday that it has. > > US Patent 187407 (from an Englishman - wacky drives obviously > > being an English thing !) was filed back in the 1950's. I've > > uploaded a couple of pics into OrigamiBoats2/Files/Transom Drive > > which show the basic principle. > > > > Colin > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > | 10780|10773|2006-03-31 07:09:26|tom|Re: BS 26 Steel Mast|Hello J The mast needs to be 33' long, so Im going to break it up in 4 sections of 8'-3" and weld together. Still experimenting a little with the shape instead of a pipe for luff grove might break it up with a 3/4" lip sticking out the back of the mast and threw bolt light weight stainless steel angel irons to make a T track slide, would be a lot easyer putting it together but its not to pretty and does add about a 1/2 pound a foot Tom ----- Original Message ----- From: "jnikadie" To: Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2006 9:22 PM Subject: [origamiboats] Re: BS 26 Steel Mast > Tom, > > Mast section looks great ... quite professional! > > How tall is the mast going to be, and how do you intend to scale your > model up (e.g. really big break-press or weld smaller sections together)? > > J. > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "tazmannusa" wrote: >> >> Hello All >> Made up a one foot mast section in steel today to make sure its >> doable and no problem. used 16 gage and 3/8" pipe for luff grove. the >> section measures 3-1/2" wide x 5-1/4" long and the weight was exactly >> 3 pound for the one foot section. I think I will use 1/2" pipe instead >> of 3/8" and recess it a little more in the mast. The 1/2" pipe has a >> 5/8" insde diameter and I think it will work a little better and only >> add a little under a 1/4 pound a foot. So the bare mast will weigh 107 >> pounds with luff grove, pretty cose to the same weight as a sitka >> spruce mast with mainsail track attached. As far as price for >> materials its around $200 for 2 lenths of 1/2" stainless pipe and the >> 16 gage galvanized sheets. >> I posted a couple picture of it in origamiboats2 and I welcome any >> input on the idea >> Tom >> > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > | 10781|10768|2006-03-31 12:18:55|seeratlas|Re: Novel drive: was, Where did everyone go ?|Brent has advised again and again to keep the weight out of the stern of the boat. The Swain designs are designed with some exactitude. You must be careful when deviating as the ship is meant to work together as a whole, and as designed. IMHO the main problem with a small sailboat in a seaway with an outboard is that because the ends of a sailboat are designed for fine entry and exit, they can do some hobby horsing. A prop that is constantly cycling between immersion, and splashing around at the surface isn't going to give you much drive into the teeth of the weather...and isn't that one of the primary situations in which auxillary power is most desired? As for drag..a simple inboard setup with one of Brent's folding prop designs would seem a reasonable alternative. seer --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "sae140" wrote: > > The worst features of an outboard being ... ? > > Well, the industry considers the vertical crankshaft to be > the limiting feature of outboard engines - the basic design > of which hasn't changed significantly since the 60's - to > which I would add the weight at the stern and high up at that. > So their casings are duly made from aluminium to counter > this weight, and so you end up with a corrodable metal mix. > There has also been the trend to use small, high-speed > propellors, so that outboards could hopefully become a "one- > size fits all" solution. But what I am suggesting avoids all > of these issues. > > There's still the problem of right-angle gearing - which is > inherent with all transom drives (except the Thai-style river > boats). OK - so that's a negative. > > I have no idea what you mean by the worst features of an > inboard engine - I can think of a few 'less than perfect > features', but then there are lots of negatives to sailing > boats if you go looking for 'em. > Focus on negatives if you must. I prefer a more positive > perspective. > > Colin > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Gary H. Lucas" > wrote: > > > > So let's see, you still have all the worst features of an outboard, > combined > > with all the worst features of an inboard. I think I see how this > works, > > it's like Home Depot. Take the worst plumbing store, the worst > electrical > > store, the worst flooring store, the worst garden center, put them > all under > > one roof and you get? > > > > Gary H. Lucas > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "sae140" > > To: > > Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2006 7:36 AM > > Subject: [origamiboats] Novel drive: was, Where did everyone go ? > > > > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Jon & Wanda(Tink)" > > > wrote: > > >> > > >> Where did everyone go did you all go to find a new partner and > can > > > she > > >> weld or sandblast LOL > > >> > > >> Jon > > >> > > > > > > > > > Well, as it's a bit quiet - maybe this is a good time to air > > > an idea I've been having re: a new kind of boat drive. > > > > > > A few weeks back I posted about a Seagull outboard leg making > > > a good auxillary sailboat drive, as the bigger Seagulls use > > > large props and 4:1 gearing. Someone suggested lifting the leg > > > up vertically to clear the water. Brent later posted about > > > controlling the rudder's trim-tab with a rod poked through > > > the transom .... > > > > > > So - putting these diverse ideas together and mashing 'em > > > around, the ageing cerebral computer came up with the > > > following: > > > > > > Seagull-style outboard leg with a right-angle drive fitted > > > in place of the engine. This drive is then taken straight > > > through the transom, above the water-line. Then connected > > > to conventional marine engine/gearbox via UJ or CV joints. > > > To get the prop out of the water, the leg is *rotated* upwards. > > > > > > The advantages of this system are: one less through-hull and > > > the possibility of no through-hull openings whatsoever below > > > the water-line. The prop can be lifted clear of the water > > > when sailing - no prop drag whatsoever. Probably no need for > > > anodes to protect the prop, as it will no longer be subjected > > > to continuous immersion. Weight at the blunt end will be > > > less then that of an equivalent outboard. Larger multi-bladed > > > props that would otherwise be unsuitable for sailboats can now > > > be used. Much lighter than, and much cheaper than Z-drives > > > with their expensive rubber boots and other parts. No big > > > hole cut in the transom either. > > > > > > The disadvantages are: a prop sticking up in the air won't > > > look any too pretty, so no good for floating gin-palaces. But > > > for cruising sailboats ? > > > A Seagull leg will lose it's oil when inverted, so sadly these > > > can't be used 'as is'. There's a need for lip-seals to prevent > > > oil loss, so we're talking custom fabrication. But right-angle > > > gearboxes are standard industrial items. > > > > > > Location of the drive will be to one side of the rudder - the > > > side being chosen to offset prop-walk to give a basic 'boat > > > pusher' configuration. However, by allowing the leg to swing > > > 'over-centre' and into a cavity cut into the rudder to allow > > > prop-wash to flow over the rudder blade, better steering > > > efficiency under power would result. > > > > > > But why hasn't this been thought of before ? Well, I found > > > out yesterday that it has. > > > US Patent 187407 (from an Englishman - wacky drives obviously > > > being an English thing !) was filed back in the 1950's. I've > > > uploaded a couple of pics into OrigamiBoats2/Files/Transom Drive > > > which show the basic principle. > > > > > > Colin > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > > > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > | 10782|13|2006-03-31 18:06:16|brentswain38|Re: Brents book|No I haven't used that address for years. For a copy of my book , plese send $20 plus $5 for postage, $10 for overseas airmail postage to 3798 Laurel Dr, Royston BC V0R2V0 Canada. Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "shawnbantingkillam" wrote: > > Brent > is this still the correct address and price for your book? > > thx shawn > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, brentswain38@ wrote: > > > > Richard > > For a copy of my book "How to Build a Better Steel Boat a Heretic's > > Guide" 100 pages Paperback illustrated ,please send $20 plus $3 for > > postage to Suite #427 1434 Island Highway Campbell River BC Canada > > V9W8C9 > > Thanks > > Brent Swain > > > > > > > > > > --- In origamiboats@y..., sunyataspirit@y... wrote: > > > > > > Hi Alex, Just wondering if you could get the address to order the > > book from Brent, price, mailing cost etc. The group seems to be > > growing nicely and new 'photos will be welcomed. (Any word from Gene > > yet?, he should be getting started again soon.) > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > Richard > > > | 10783|10783|2006-03-31 18:21:57|brentswain38|Watermaker|I just fired up the watermaker today. It works well.At first it looked like I would need a booster pump on the saltwater intake, but I forced water in with my garden sprayer with 50psi , and after it went thru the pump it worked well, no booster pump needed.All it needed was a little pressure priming to force the air out.As it hasn't been used , the output was down a bit, but Wolf assures me that as I use it more , the output will increase. I plan to use it while motoring for a few hours to clean the bisulfite out. I need a smaller pulley ( 4.75 inches)to reach 1700 RPM while idling and I plan to use an ss pipe union to hook up the high pressure line, so it can be taken apart easily . The pump and pre filtre should definitly be as far below the waterline as possible to eliminate the need for a booster pump. I sure will be a blessing while cruising Mexico and the Pacific.It cost less than $1,000 CDN. A commercially made one with the equivalent output ( 540 GPDay) costs around $12,000 from West Marine. Brent| 10784|10783|2006-03-31 19:28:52|rogger munchousen|Re: Watermaker|Hi Brent I missed out on the water maker you installed.I would like to know about the unit chad brentswain38 wrote: I just fired up the watermaker today. It works well.At first it looked like I would need a booster pump on the saltwater intake, but I forced water in with my garden sprayer with 50psi , and after it went thru the pump it worked well, no booster pump needed.All it needed was a little pressure priming to force the air out.As it hasn't been used , the output was down a bit, but Wolf assures me that as I use it more , the output will increase. I plan to use it while motoring for a few hours to clean the bisulfite out. I need a smaller pulley ( 4.75 inches)to reach 1700 RPM while idling and I plan to use an ss pipe union to hook up the high pressure line, so it can be taken apart easily . The pump and pre filtre should definitly be as far below the waterline as possible to eliminate the need for a booster pump. I sure will be a blessing while cruising Mexico and the Pacific.It cost less than $1,000 CDN. A commercially made one with the equivalent output ( 540 GPDay) costs around $12,000 from West Marine. Brent To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com SPONSORED LINKS British columbia canada Vancouver island Yacht --------------------------------- YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. --------------------------------- --------------------------------- New Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Call regular phones from your PC and save big. --------------------------------- Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. PC-to-Phone calls for ridiculously low rates. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]| 10785|10785|2006-03-31 20:50:39|tazmannusa|BS 26 making progress|I had the last couple days of dry weather so I managed to get some work done on the boat, most of the cabin structure is on and I think its turning out ok. Followed the plans as far as the hiths of the sides and I like being able to see over cabin from the cockpit. Looks like I will have a little over 6' cabin headroom and by widening the cabin bottom 6" makes the cabin seem a lot bigger than it is , glad I did it, anyway I posted a few more photos in origamiboats2. Take care Tom| 10786|10786|2006-03-31 22:04:58|khooper_fboats|Cheap Diesel/East Coast|An ole Westerbeke 30 horse somewhat shrouded in eBay mystery because of poor spelling: Item 4627174415 @ $750 flat rate and the "best offer" button is lit so maybe if you stay cool you can get it for less eventually. Might be a good engine if you can do your own work. Yesterday I saw somebody pay $865 for a well-used Volkswagen 1600 diesel. Crazy crazy times in diesel land. --Ken| 10787|10768|2006-04-01 04:56:33|sae140|Re: Novel drive: was, Where did everyone go ?|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "seeratlas" wrote: > > A prop that is > constantly cycling between immersion, and splashing around at the > surface isn't going to give you much drive into the teeth of the > weather...and isn't that one of the primary situations in which > auxillary power is most desired? Hi Seer Appreciate your comments. But no, not necessarily - I carry a conventional outboard on my baby yacht principally for getting on and off moorings and as some kind of insurance against drifting into awkward spots in deep water under zero wind conditions (very common around here in summer). I doubt that many yachts carry enough fuel to drive into heavy weather for sustained periods. I wouldn't want to rely 100% upon any engine (especially diesel) in the conditions you describe. Position: With the design I'm proposing it would be possible to get the prop into more-or-less the same position (a foot or so aft-wards ?) as that of an inboard drive - i.e. into a cut-out in the transom- hung rudder. Weight: The best place for any inboard engine (imho) is in the middle of the main cabin. The weight of this outboard drive mechanism will be orders-of-magnitude less than that of an inboard engine mounted near the stern. > As for drag..a simple inboard setup with one of Brent's folding prop > designs would seem a reasonable alternative. ... details ? Colin| 10788|10768|2006-04-01 10:41:09|Michael Casling|Re: Novel drive: was, Where did everyone go ?|When we had a mini tornado come through the fleet during a regatta a few years ago, the only boats that could go to windward were the ones with diesels. The steep waves close together, made it next to impossible for any of the boats with OBMs to go anywhere, except where the wind blew them. For some that meant straight at a floating bridge that was about one mile away. The OBMs on a small boat can be a lot less hassle than a diesel, but at times they can be useless. I have one of each. Michael ----- Original Message ----- From: sae140 To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, April 01, 2006 1:56 AM Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Novel drive: was, Where did everyone go ? Hi Seer I doubt that many yachts carry enough fuel to drive into heavy weather for sustained periods. I wouldn't want to rely 100% upon any engine (especially diesel) in the conditions you describe. Colin To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS a.. Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web. b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 10789|10768|2006-04-01 12:49:01|kendall|Re: Novel drive: was, Where did everyone go ?|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Michael Casling wrote: > > When we had a mini tornado come through the fleet during a regatta a few years ago, the only boats that could go to windward were the ones with diesels. > The steep waves close together, made it next to impossible for any of the boats with OBMs to go anywhere, except where the wind blew them. > For some that meant straight at a floating bridge that was about one mile away. > The OBMs on a small boat can be a lot less hassle than a diesel, but at times they can be useless. > I have one of each. > > Michael It's times like that where you don't fight the wind and instead work with it to move if not where you want to go, at least away from where you don't. Ken.| 10790|10768|2006-04-01 16:55:47|seeratlas|Re: Novel drive: was, Where did everyone go ?|ok, now i'm going to qualify what i'm about to say by telling you none of this is theory, none of this is armchair pondering, its all based on what i've physically seen, we're talking empirical evidence here. "IF" you're going to sail, there is going to come a time when you need to go from where you are, to somewhere pretty much dead into the wind, and you need to do it RIGHT NOW!!!!. AND, more than likely, dead into the wind is going to be dead into a mean piece of sea. No sculling, no tacking, no waiving down a passing powerboat...you're going to be on your own, and at that moment, if you CAN'T go dead into the wind, in a seaway, you are going to tear the hell out of your boat, if not lose it completely, and maybe worse. Now my lifetime of sailing has led me to conclude that there are two ways of designing/building a boat. You can design/build for halcyon days, 14knot breezes from the stern quarter, and calm-softly rolling seas..which may very well end up 60 percent of your life's sailing...If your a prototypical fair weather sailor (and nothing wrong with that) then this works fine..... OR, you can design for that hopefully rare, life-threatening moment, that some sailors will never see, with horrifically steep seas, wind dead on the nose, and something REALLY REALLY BAD dead astern.... take your pick. two things to remember, there are a LOT more 'bad things" to hit: 1. near the shore, 2. In the harbor 3. in and around the docks than there are in the middle of the deep blue.... I've seen somewhere around 15-20 yachts lost within 100 yards of shore, when the wind veered to the nose, the sea came up, and they couldn't power off anchor. Just remember, when giving advice to less experienced sailors, realize that to the extent they actually take your advice.....well...make sure its good advice. seer --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "kendall" wrote: > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Michael Casling wrote: > > > > When we had a mini tornado come through the fleet during a regatta a > few years ago, the only boats that could go to windward were the ones > with diesels. > > The steep waves close together, made it next to impossible for any > of the boats with OBMs to go anywhere, except where the wind blew them. > > For some that meant straight at a floating bridge that was about one > mile away. > > The OBMs on a small boat can be a lot less hassle than a diesel, but > at times they can be useless. > > I have one of each. > > > > Michael > > It's times like that where you don't fight the wind and instead work > with it to move if not where you want to go, at least away from where > you don't. > > Ken. > | 10791|10791|2006-04-01 16:57:44|Máscio Andrade|Velejar.|Moro em Belo Horizonte Minas Gerais Brasil Tem alguem velejando por aqui ? Gostaria de ajudar , participar em qualquer projeto. Máscio Andrade BH.MG. Brasil 55 31 9972 7231| 10792|10791|2006-04-01 20:44:41|jp4sail|Re: Velejar.|Tem sim....e por incrivel que pareça, em BH....Tô construindo um barquinho he he. me passa um fio..8878 1711 Bye JPaes --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Máscio Andrade wrote: > > Moro em Belo Horizonte Minas Gerais Brasil > > Tem alguem velejando por aqui ? > Gostaria de ajudar , participar em qualquer projeto. > > Máscio Andrade BH.MG. Brasil 55 31 9972 7231 > | 10793|10768|2006-04-02 00:06:47|cirejay|Re: Novel drive: was, Where did everyone go ?|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "kendall" wrote: > It's times like that where you don't fight the wind and instead work > with it to move if not where you want to go, at least away from where > you don't. I have a friend, a great helmsman, if your racing around the buoys, who just can't understand the concept of a lee shore. It seems to be one of those concepts that must be empirically driven home; that feeling of dread, knowing that nothing you do will get you off. Whenever we would do an overnight on Lake Erie I'd wake for my watch to find us a mile or so closer to shore than I left orders for the boat to be. As sure as Bob's your uncle, the shore is your enemy. Now Ken, you may be a much better sailor than I am - many are - but in my 50 years of sailing, much of it singlehanded, I've come to grips with the fact that I'm not a very good sailor, that I'm not always able to work with the wind and, don't forget currents, to get at least away from where I don't want to go. That is why the boat I'm refitting to head up into the high latitudes, singlehanded, is getting a new strong, diesel. eric S/V Nebaras| 10794|10768|2006-04-02 12:45:00|kendall|Re: Novel drive: was, Where did everyone go ?|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "cirejay" wrote: > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "kendall" wrote: > > > It's times like that where you don't fight the wind and instead > work > > with it to move if not where you want to go, at least away from > where > > you don't. > > I have a friend, a great helmsman, if your racing around the buoys, > who just can't understand the concept of a lee shore. It seems to > be one of those concepts that must be empirically driven home; that > feeling of dread, knowing that nothing you do will get you off. > Whenever we would do an overnight on Lake Erie I'd wake for my watch > to find us a mile or so closer to shore than I left orders for the > boat to be. As sure as Bob's your uncle, the shore is your enemy. > > Now Ken, you may be a much better sailor than I am - many are - but > in my 50 years of sailing, much of it singlehanded, I've come to > grips with the fact that I'm not a very good sailor, that I'm not > always able to work with the wind and, don't forget currents, to get > at least away from where I don't want to go. That is why the boat > I'm refitting to head up into the high latitudes, singlehanded, is > getting a new strong, diesel. > > eric S/V Nebaras > Not saying let the wind push you to the shore, I mean if you're fighting the wind and still losing ground it's time to angle off as much as possible to pull some of the winds teeth. Don't angle off enouh to get broadside to the wind, just enough that you are fighting the wind on a diagonal instead of dead on. The advantage of a good strong engine is not arguable, but there are times, as in the original post, that the engine can only slow you down and you have to take steps to minimize the opposition, not sure of the exact math, but veering off can reduce the apparent force by a seeming third I'd not claim to be a better sailer than anyone else,in my opinion all sailers are in training. Frankly I wouldn't expect everyone to react in the same way as me to a pop quiz, most often my responses worked out, and when they haven't it's been exam time. ken.| 10795|10768|2006-04-02 16:17:14|cirejay|Re: Novel drive: was, Where did everyone go ?|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "kendall" wrote: > > Not saying let the wind push you to the shore, I mean if you're > fighting the wind and still losing ground it's time to angle off as > much as possible to pull some of the winds teeth. Don't angle off > enouh to get broadside to the wind, just enough that you are fighting > the wind on a diagonal instead of dead on. > > The advantage of a good strong engine is not arguable, but there are > times, as in the original post, that the engine can only slow you down > and you have to take steps to minimize the opposition, not sure of the > exact math, but veering off can reduce the apparent force by a seeming > third Lee shore, it seems to be one of those concepts that must be empirically driven home; that feeling of dread, knowing that nothing you do will get you off. eric S/V Nebaras| 10796|10796|2006-04-02 16:52:34|Gerd|Yago Early Launch|I know, all you guys work much faster than me... but I still beat you: I just launched my boat: http://www.justmueller.com/boats/_files/flood1.jpg and http://www.justmueller.com/boats/_files/flood2.jpg Actually I had not really asked or it, and also could have done without sandbagging my home, and pumping the shit from the overflowing toilet in the bathroom, and wading through the living room in my wellies, but the Danube just did not want to wait any longer. does not float yet, all seams are not finished welding, meaning I can now draw the waterline inside just as easy as outside. only problem is: they announce even more water later this week, so the damn thing is probably going to sink even before it floats... this mess won't help much with this years budget either. :-(( They say it's a "50 year flood"... well, the last one here like this was 3 years ago so I guess now it's a 47 year flood maybe?? gerd the yago project at http://www.justmueller.com/boats/| 10797|10796|2006-04-02 18:10:57|tom|Re: Yago Early Launch|Hey Gerd Well you got me beat, Does she float? At least you dont have to worry about it rusting ha ha I thought mine was bad filling up with water every down poor even though the seem is not welded yet. Tom ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gerd" To: Sent: Sunday, April 02, 2006 1:12 PM Subject: [origamiboats] Yago Early Launch >I know, all you guys work much faster than me... but I still beat you: > > I just launched my boat: > > http://www.justmueller.com/boats/_files/flood1.jpg > and > http://www.justmueller.com/boats/_files/flood2.jpg > > Actually I had not really asked or it, and also could have done > without sandbagging my home, and pumping the shit from the overflowing > toilet in the bathroom, and wading through the living room in my > wellies, but the Danube just did not want to wait any longer. > > does not float yet, all seams are not finished welding, meaning I can > now draw the waterline inside just as easy as outside. > > only problem is: they announce even more water later this week, so the > damn thing is probably going to sink even before it floats... this > mess won't help much with this years budget either. :-(( > > They say it's a "50 year flood"... well, the last one here like this > was 3 years ago so I guess now it's a 47 year flood maybe?? > > gerd > the yago project at http://www.justmueller.com/boats/ > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > | 10798|10796|2006-04-02 19:18:48|Aaron Williams|Re: Yago Early Launch|Hi Gerd Dont forget to throw out the anchor just in case. Good luck with the flood. Aaron in Alaska tom wrote: Hey Gerd Well you got me beat, Does she float? At least you dont have to worry about it rusting ha ha I thought mine was bad filling up with water every down poor even though the seem is not welded yet. Tom ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gerd" To: Sent: Sunday, April 02, 2006 1:12 PM Subject: [origamiboats] Yago Early Launch >I know, all you guys work much faster than me... but I still beat you: > > I just launched my boat: > > http://www.justmueller.com/boats/_files/flood1.jpg > and > http://www.justmueller.com/boats/_files/flood2.jpg > > Actually I had not really asked or it, and also could have done > without sandbagging my home, and pumping the shit from the overflowing > toilet in the bathroom, and wading through the living room in my > wellies, but the Danube just did not want to wait any longer. > > does not float yet, all seams are not finished welding, meaning I can > now draw the waterline inside just as easy as outside. > > only problem is: they announce even more water later this week, so the > damn thing is probably going to sink even before it floats... this > mess won't help much with this years budget either. :-(( > > They say it's a "50 year flood"... well, the last one here like this > was 3 years ago so I guess now it's a 47 year flood maybe?? > > gerd > the yago project at http://www.justmueller.com/boats/ > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com --------------------------------- YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. --------------------------------- --------------------------------- New Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Call regular phones from your PC and save big. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 10799|10796|2006-04-02 20:18:40|cirejay|Re: Yago Early Launch|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Gerd" wrote: > > I know, all you guys work much faster than me... but I still beat >you: Remember Gerd, if you can keep your head when all around you are loosing theirs, perhaps you don't understand the gravity of the situation. eric S/V Nebaras| 10800|10796|2006-04-03 03:15:23|Puck III|Re: Yago Early Launch|Hi Gerd , all could or can become worse , hoping your house is spared from waterdamage. We saw more affected areas on tv . I wish you some dry weather for the next weeks. Old Ben --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Gerd" wrote: > > I know, all you guys work much faster than me... but I still beat you: > > I just launched my boat: > > http://www.justmueller.com/boats/_files/flood1.jpg > and > http://www.justmueller.com/boats/_files/flood2.jpg > > Actually I had not really asked or it, and also could have done > without sandbagging my home, and pumping the shit from the overflowing > toilet in the bathroom, and wading through the living room in my > wellies, but the Danube just did not want to wait any longer. > > does not float yet, all seams are not finished welding, meaning I can > now draw the waterline inside just as easy as outside. > > only problem is: they announce even more water later this week, so the > damn thing is probably going to sink even before it floats... this > mess won't help much with this years budget either. :-(( > > They say it's a "50 year flood"... well, the last one here like this > was 3 years ago so I guess now it's a 47 year flood maybe?? > > gerd > the yago project at http://www.justmueller.com/boats/ > | 10801|10796|2006-04-03 12:52:31|zsigmondsz|Re: Yago Early Launch|Oh so near and missed the fun ! zig| 10802|10758|2006-04-03 15:05:25|Alex and Kim Christie|Re: Hull flexing under load?|Same type of story was mentioned in a posting some years back, when a hull was jacked from one corner -- not even a sixteenth of an inch movement. That's stiffness you'd expect from a monolithic structure like these boats. Alex ----- Original Message ----- From: brentswain38 To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006 4:17 PM Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Hull flexing under load? There is no measureable twisting. I once had a twist in the hull that I couldn't see, but the owner insisted was there, after we had tacked the cockpit seats and all the decks on. We broke a three ton comealong trying to gey it to twist what was about 1/16th of an inch, without it moving at all . A hydraulic jack couldn't get it to twist. There is no noticeable flexing. Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "whitehorze" wrote: > > Hello all. I just joined so if this topic has been beaten to death > before please exscuse my ignorance. > > Under hard loads, Rough seas and a full sail, How much does the > stressed hull design of these boats flex? Granted with the deck welded > on the design is pretty stiff but under point loads (quartering through > a heavy wave), isn't there some twisting along the keel line? > > Thanks... > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS a.. Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web. b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.3.0/290 - Release Date: 23/03/2006 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 10803|10758|2006-04-03 16:38:46|tom|Re: Hull flexing under load?|I can even vouch for that, I lifted my 26 and put in on a trailer yesterday and its only a tacked shell and it wouldn't twist or flex at all. I was amazed Tom ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alex and Kim Christie" To: Sent: Monday, April 03, 2006 12:04 PM Subject: Re: [origamiboats] Re: Hull flexing under load? > Same type of story was mentioned in a posting some years back, when a hull > was jacked from one corner -- not even a sixteenth of an inch movement. > That's stiffness you'd expect from a monolithic structure like these > boats. > > Alex > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: brentswain38 > To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006 4:17 PM > Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Hull flexing under load? > > > There is no measureable twisting. I once had a twist in the hull that > I couldn't see, but the owner insisted was there, after we had tacked > the cockpit seats and all the decks on. We broke a three ton comealong > trying to gey it to twist what was about 1/16th of an inch, without it > moving at all . A hydraulic jack couldn't get it to twist. There is > no noticeable flexing. > Brent > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "whitehorze" > wrote: > > > > Hello all. I just joined so if this topic has been beaten to death > > before please exscuse my ignorance. > > > > Under hard loads, Rough seas and a full sail, How much does the > > stressed hull design of these boats flex? Granted with the deck > welded > > on the design is pretty stiff but under point loads (quartering > through > > a heavy wave), isn't there some twisting along the keel line? > > > > Thanks... > > > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > a.. Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web. > > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > Service. > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.3.0/290 - Release Date: 23/03/2006 > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > | 10804|10804|2006-04-03 16:53:39|tom|Grab rails|Hello all What is the normal height of the grab rails on the cabin tops ? I already had a visions of sliding across the cabin top and hooking my toes underneath ouch! Tom [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]| 10805|10804|2006-04-03 17:20:20|kingsknight4life|Re: Grab rails|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "tom" wrote: > > Hello all > What is the normal height of the grab rails on the cabin tops ? > I already had a visions of sliding across the cabin top and hooking my toes underneath ouch! > Tom Tom I haven't measured mine but the best bet is to use your own hand as a guide. Make them taller if you have fat fingers and shorter if you don't. I like to have just enough room to slide my hands under, plus a bit of room so I don't scrape my knuckles if my hands rotate. If I was to guess I'd say about 1.5" from the cabin top to the bottom of the rail. You definitely don't want your feet to be able to slide under them. Hope this helps. Rowland| 10806|10804|2006-04-03 17:53:05|tom|Re: Grab rails|Thanks Rowland 1-1/2" seems about right, I will do like you said and mock up one and make sure I have just enough hand clearance. I guess common sense would dictate not to be up on the cabin top bare foot anyway Tom ----- Original Message ----- From: "kingsknight4life" To: Sent: Monday, April 03, 2006 2:17 PM Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Grab rails > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "tom" wrote: >> >> Hello all >> What is the normal height of the grab rails on the cabin tops ? >> I already had a visions of sliding across the cabin top and hooking > my toes underneath ouch! >> Tom > > Tom > I haven't measured mine but the best bet is to use your own hand as a > guide. Make them taller if you have fat fingers and shorter if you > don't. I like to have just enough room to slide my hands under, plus a > bit of room so I don't scrape my knuckles if my hands rotate. If I was > to guess I'd say about 1.5" from the cabin top to the bottom of the > rail. You definitely don't want your feet to be able to slide under > them. Hope this helps. > Rowland > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > | 10807|10804|2006-04-04 03:51:03|edward_stoneuk|Re: Grab rails|Tom, I made mine just high enough that I could get my gloved hand underneath. Regards, Ted| 10808|10808|2006-04-04 08:21:08|edward_stoneuk|Hobby horsing|I guess weight in the ends of a boat make the period of oscillation slower so that there is a resonance with the wave period thus causing hobby horsing. Bringing the weight in closer to the centre of buoyancy increases the speed of the oscillations, much the same as a spinning ice dancer speeds up when they bring their arms in and these quick oscillations in a boat are quickly damped out by the waves with a slower frequency. Does anybody have a figure of a reasonable fore and aft moment of inertia around the centre of buoyancy of a BS 36 to avoid hobby horsing? Also to what extent do folks calculate the mass moment when fitting on the extras to get a level floating boat? Regards, Ted| 10809|10804|2006-04-04 14:28:58|audeojude|Re: Grab rails|I was just reading the current issue of This Good Old Boat magazine and they have an article about this.. they recomend replacing the low cabin top grab rail with a full railing that you can comfortable grab from a standing position on the side deck and that gives something to lean against from inside it at the mast etc.. also that if your sitting on the cabin top with feet on the side deck that you can lean back against it. It was a very persuasive article.. lots of utility in the idea. And the picture showing it didn't look bad. scott .--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "edward_stoneuk" wrote: > > Tom, > I made mine just high enough that I could get my gloved hand > underneath. > Regards, > Ted > | 10810|10804|2006-04-04 18:01:13|tom|Re: Grab rails|Hello Scott The only draw back I could see by eleminating the the low grab rails is the way Brent has them designed they protect the cabin corners from chiping paint plus if you fell against the cabin you would be hitting round pipe instead of a blunt corner. I have seen a lot of designes where they put a single hoop on both sides of the mast to acomplish the same as the tall railing would do. On my 26 I'm not planing on spending much time on the cabin roof, all lines are going to run to the cockpit. Tom ----- Original Message ----- From: "audeojude" To: Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2006 11:26 AM Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Grab rails >I was just reading the current issue of This Good Old Boat magazine > and they have an article about this.. they recomend replacing the low > cabin top grab rail with a full railing that you can comfortable grab > from a standing position on the side deck and that gives something to > lean against from inside it at the mast etc.. also that if your > sitting on the cabin top with feet on the side deck that you can lean > back against it. It was a very persuasive article.. lots of utility in > the idea. And the picture showing it didn't look bad. > scott > > > .--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "edward_stoneuk" > wrote: >> >> Tom, >> I made mine just high enough that I could get my gloved hand >> underneath. >> Regards, >> Ted >> > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > | 10811|10808|2006-04-04 19:07:38|brentswain38|Re: Hobby horsing|The more weight in the ends the longer the frequency and thus the bigger the waves it will hobby horse in. Concentrating weight amidships means it will only be in frequency with waves that are too small to matter as much. Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "edward_stoneuk" wrote: > > I guess weight in the ends of a boat make the period of oscillation > slower so that there is a resonance with the wave period thus causing > hobby horsing. Bringing the weight in closer to the centre of > buoyancy increases the speed of the oscillations, much the same as a > spinning ice dancer speeds up when they bring their arms in and these > quick oscillations in a boat are quickly damped out by the waves with > a slower frequency. Does anybody have a figure of a reasonable fore > and aft moment of inertia around the centre of buoyancy of a BS 36 to > avoid hobby horsing? Also to what extent do folks calculate the mass > moment when fitting on the extras to get a level floating boat? > > Regards, > Ted > | 10812|10812|2006-04-04 20:48:46|SHANE ROTHWELL|Brentboat for Sale??|Hi guys, Have been away for a bit & heard that there is a brentboat hull for sale. a 36' or a 40'. somewhere on the Island apparently... Anyone have any info on this? Thanks, Shane __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com| 10813|10804|2006-04-05 13:17:52|seeratlas|Re: Grab rails|whoops, should've read one more message re gloves heh seer -- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "edward_stoneuk" wrote: > > Tom, > I made mine just high enough that I could get my gloved hand > underneath. > Regards, > Ted > | 10814|10804|2006-04-05 13:18:15|seeratlas|Re: Grab rails|Include room for gloves unless you're going to head to the tropics and stay there :) seer --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "tom" wrote: > > Thanks Rowland > 1-1/2" seems about right, I will do like you said and mock up one and make > sure I have just enough hand clearance. I guess common sense would dictate > not to be up on the cabin top bare foot anyway > Tom > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "kingsknight4life" > To: > Sent: Monday, April 03, 2006 2:17 PM > Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Grab rails > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "tom" wrote: > >> > >> Hello all > >> What is the normal height of the grab rails on the cabin tops ? > >> I already had a visions of sliding across the cabin top and hooking > > my toes underneath ouch! > >> Tom > > > > Tom > > I haven't measured mine but the best bet is to use your own hand as a > > guide. Make them taller if you have fat fingers and shorter if you > > don't. I like to have just enough room to slide my hands under, plus a > > bit of room so I don't scrape my knuckles if my hands rotate. If I was > > to guess I'd say about 1.5" from the cabin top to the bottom of the > > rail. You definitely don't want your feet to be able to slide under > > them. Hope this helps. > > Rowland > > > > > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > | 10815|10804|2006-04-05 13:24:16|seeratlas|Re: Grab rails|Another consideration is that the strength of the steel rails on Brent's boats far exceeds those on a wooden cabin topped ship. I'm planning on using mine as tackle anchor points etc. seer --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "tom" wrote: > > Hello Scott > The only draw back I could see by eleminating the the low grab rails is the > way Brent has them designed they protect the cabin corners from chiping > paint plus if you fell against the cabin you would be hitting round pipe > instead of a blunt corner. I have seen a lot of designes where they put a > single hoop on both sides of the mast to acomplish the same as the tall > railing would do. On my 26 I'm not planing on spending much time on the > cabin roof, all lines are going to run to the cockpit. > Tom > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "audeojude" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2006 11:26 AM > Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Grab rails > > > >I was just reading the current issue of This Good Old Boat magazine > > and they have an article about this.. they recomend replacing the low > > cabin top grab rail with a full railing that you can comfortable grab > > from a standing position on the side deck and that gives something to > > lean against from inside it at the mast etc.. also that if your > > sitting on the cabin top with feet on the side deck that you can lean > > back against it. It was a very persuasive article.. lots of utility in > > the idea. And the picture showing it didn't look bad. > > scott > > > > > > .--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "edward_stoneuk" > > wrote: > >> > >> Tom, > >> I made mine just high enough that I could get my gloved hand > >> underneath. > >> Regards, > >> Ted > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > | 10816|10808|2006-04-05 15:34:06|jericoera|Re: Hobby horsing|I don't know much about the subject but will say that when I told a rigging outfit on Van Island I was looking for a mast for a BS 36, he said what ever I do , be sure to use wood or aluminum. He replaced a steel mast on a BS 36 and with bilge keels. The steel mast proved to be too tall, too heavy and caused a reportedly sickening motion in the boat due to the shallow draft. This may not be as bad I would expect if you were using a steel mast with a single keeler. I have a sneaking suspicion however that there are people out there who deviate greatly from the plans and probably put on huge rigs for these protected waters around here where winds are flukey. A great example of that is a Swain boat sitting on the hard in Lund right now. There have been some radical changes to the hull and seems like the cockpit sole was raised more than plenty. With huge pilothouses and raised floors, I would expect the righting moment to change substantially. Carl M. --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "brentswain38" wrote: > > The more weight in the ends the longer the frequency and thus the > bigger the waves it will hobby horse in. Concentrating weight amidships > means it will only be in frequency with waves that are too small to > matter as much. > Brent > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "edward_stoneuk" > wrote: > > > > I guess weight in the ends of a boat make the period of oscillation > > slower so that there is a resonance with the wave period thus causing > > hobby horsing. Bringing the weight in closer to the centre of > > buoyancy increases the speed of the oscillations, much the same as a > > spinning ice dancer speeds up when they bring their arms in and these > > quick oscillations in a boat are quickly damped out by the waves with > > a slower frequency. Does anybody have a figure of a reasonable fore > > and aft moment of inertia around the centre of buoyancy of a BS 36 to > > avoid hobby horsing? Also to what extent do folks calculate the mass > > moment when fitting on the extras to get a level floating boat? > > > > Regards, > > Ted > > > | 10817|10804|2006-04-05 17:37:11|Jim Phillips|Re: Grab rails|do away with an expensive traveller and instead use a block on a transverse steel grab rail. Jim. seeratlas wrote: Another consideration is that the strength of the steel rails on Brent's boats far exceeds those on a wooden cabin topped ship. I'm planning on using mine as tackle anchor points etc. seer --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "tom" wrote: > > Hello Scott > The only draw back I could see by eleminating the the low grab rails is the > way Brent has them designed they protect the cabin corners from chiping > paint plus if you fell against the cabin you would be hitting round pipe > instead of a blunt corner. I have seen a lot of designes where they put a > single hoop on both sides of the mast to acomplish the same as the tall > railing would do. On my 26 I'm not planing on spending much time on the > cabin roof, all lines are going to run to the cockpit. > Tom > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "audeojude" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2006 11:26 AM > Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Grab rails > > > >I was just reading the current issue of This Good Old Boat magazine > > and they have an article about this.. they recomend replacing the low > > cabin top grab rail with a full railing that you can comfortable grab > > from a standing position on the side deck and that gives something to > > lean against from inside it at the mast etc.. also that if your > > sitting on the cabin top with feet on the side deck that you can lean > > back against it. It was a very persuasive article.. lots of utility in > > the idea. And the picture showing it didn't look bad. > > scott > > > > > > .--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "edward_stoneuk" > > wrote: > >> > >> Tom, > >> I made mine just high enough that I could get my gloved hand > >> underneath. > >> Regards, > >> Ted > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com SPONSORED LINKS British columbia canada Vancouver island Yacht --------------------------------- YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. --------------------------------- Send instant messages to your online friends http://au.messenger.yahoo.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 10818|10808|2006-04-05 19:19:47|brentswain38|Re: Hobby horsing|The plans call for a 5 1'2 or 6 inch OD by 11 guage wall tube. Some people have gone for well caseing which is 6 5/8th OD with a 10 guage wall ,which is much heavier, too heavy. The tubing specified in the plans is actually lighter than some of the aluminium spars recomended by sparmakers.Some weight is also saved by being able to weld steel tangs , etc.directly to the spar. Now however , some scrap aluminium 6 inch tubing may actually be cheaper than new steel tubing , which makes it worthwhile. With their horrendous prices , new aluminium mast extrusions cannot be justified by anyone other than the rich. Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "jericoera" wrote: > > I don't know much about the subject but will say that when I told a > rigging outfit on Van Island I was looking for a mast for a BS 36, > he said what ever I do , be sure to use wood or aluminum. He > replaced a steel mast on a BS 36 and with bilge keels. The steel > mast proved to be too tall, too heavy and caused a reportedly > sickening motion in the boat due to the shallow draft. This may not > be as bad I would expect if you were using a steel mast with a > single keeler. > > I have a sneaking suspicion however that there are people out there > who deviate greatly from the plans and probably put on huge rigs for > these protected waters around here where winds are flukey. > > A great example of that is a Swain boat sitting on the hard in Lund > right now. There have been some radical changes to the hull and > seems like the cockpit sole was raised more than plenty. > > With huge pilothouses and raised floors, I would expect the righting > moment to change substantially. > > Carl M. > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "brentswain38" > wrote: > > > > The more weight in the ends the longer the frequency and thus the > > bigger the waves it will hobby horse in. Concentrating weight > amidships > > means it will only be in frequency with waves that are too small > to > > matter as much. > > Brent > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "edward_stoneuk" > > wrote: > > > > > > I guess weight in the ends of a boat make the period of > oscillation > > > slower so that there is a resonance with the wave period thus > causing > > > hobby horsing. Bringing the weight in closer to the centre of > > > buoyancy increases the speed of the oscillations, much the same > as a > > > spinning ice dancer speeds up when they bring their arms in and > these > > > quick oscillations in a boat are quickly damped out by the waves > with > > > a slower frequency. Does anybody have a figure of a reasonable > fore > > > and aft moment of inertia around the centre of buoyancy of a BS > 36 to > > > avoid hobby horsing? Also to what extent do folks calculate the > mass > > > moment when fitting on the extras to get a level floating boat? > > > > > > Regards, > > > Ted > > > > > > | 10819|10804|2006-04-05 19:31:19|brentswain38|Re: Grab rails|I gave up travellers 33 years ago.Sunk the traveler in deep New Zealand waters to make an artificial mini reef, it's best use. Far to noisy in a calm. I use padeyes and blocks, and leave a line around the boom which I tie to the cabintop handrails , or the lifelines when reaching. Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Jim Phillips wrote: > > do away with an expensive traveller and instead use a block on a transverse steel grab rail. > > Jim. > > > seeratlas wrote: > Another consideration is that the strength of the steel rails on > Brent's boats far exceeds those on a wooden cabin topped ship. I'm > planning on using mine as tackle anchor points etc. > > seer > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "tom" wrote: > > > > Hello Scott > > The only draw back I could see by eleminating the the low grab > rails is the > > way Brent has them designed they protect the cabin corners from chiping > > paint plus if you fell against the cabin you would be hitting round > pipe > > instead of a blunt corner. I have seen a lot of designes where they > put a > > single hoop on both sides of the mast to acomplish the same as the tall > > railing would do. On my 26 I'm not planing on spending much time on the > > cabin roof, all lines are going to run to the cockpit. > > Tom > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "audeojude" > > To: > > Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2006 11:26 AM > > Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Grab rails > > > > > > >I was just reading the current issue of This Good Old Boat magazine > > > and they have an article about this.. they recomend replacing the low > > > cabin top grab rail with a full railing that you can comfortable grab > > > from a standing position on the side deck and that gives something to > > > lean against from inside it at the mast etc.. also that if your > > > sitting on the cabin top with feet on the side deck that you can lean > > > back against it. It was a very persuasive article.. lots of utility in > > > the idea. And the picture showing it didn't look bad. > > > scott > > > > > > > > > .--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "edward_stoneuk" > > > wrote: > > >> > > >> Tom, > > >> I made mine just high enough that I could get my gloved hand > > >> underneath. > > >> Regards, > > >> Ted > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > > > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats- unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > SPONSORED LINKS > British columbia canada Vancouver island Yacht > > --------------------------------- > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > > Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > > --------------------------------- > > > > > Send instant messages to your online friends http://au.messenger.yahoo.com > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > | 10820|10820|2006-04-06 17:29:26|Puck III|New Origami Ply Design|Hi All , just a repost for those interested in a New Origami Ply Boat Design in the Repository Group : http://groups.yahoo.com/group/OrigamiPlyBoatDesign/ Krzys was so nice to post the building patterns , allowing you to build a model , wish will give you a better understanding how simple Origami building can be . Just for those interested . Old Ben > --- In OrigamiPlyBoatDesign@yahoogroups.com, "Krzysztof Mnich" > wrote: > > > > Hi, > > > > Just finished the drawings of a new origami boat. > > The patterns are very similar as for the Mini-Swail. In fact, > during a boat exhibition in November > > I met a guy, who watched the sketch of Swail. > > > > He ordered plans of a smaller boat, with an Oceanic-style sail. > The boat was to be a light weekender. > > Her cabin allows 2 people to sleep, and to store their cloths, > nothing more. > > The boat should weigh 200kgs and be self-righting with a 30kg steel > centerboard. > > > > Some solutions are discussive, but they are as ordered. For > example, the birdwatcher-style > > cabin... Anyway, it seems that the boat will be built this year! > > > > The drawings are complete (descriptions in Polish yet). I uploaded > them (in jpegs without text) on > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/OrigamiPlyBoatDesign/files/krzys/occat5/ > > > > regards > > > > krzys > ================== > > Krzyz , my congratulations and best wishes for your new design . > I have been over all drawings with great attention. > I am impressed !!! > > Beauty in simplicity ,no unneccesary gadgets , > very light and sure easy to trail . > She realy has a lot to offer. > A speedster cruiser racer. > > I am extreemly happy a member of the first days of this Group, > post such an interesting and on Topic design . > > I could not resist putting her on our intro page , > hoping all members will spread the news in > the different Groups they post. > > Please keep us posted , I look forward to see the > building pics , learn about trials and why not , > come and sail her myself , cause it is about > time we have a drink and an Origami tchat . > > Cheers with the finest Champaign !!!! > > Old Ben | 10821|10821|2006-04-10 00:27:12|Carl Anderson|summer plans|Hello all, We are coming up to BC this summer to continue our research before building. We would like to see any BS36, or others, that are under construction as well as any that are finished. If anyone is willing to let us look and tell us about their project we would appreciate that very much. Thank you, Carl Anderson| 10822|10804|2006-04-10 08:52:22|seeratlas|Re: Grab rails|Brent, How do you place your padeyes, I seem to recall you posting something about leaving stainless nuts welded into the deck in various locations so that you could attach something or other. Were you talking about attaching your padeyes/block anchor points to those? or just welding in the normal sunken eyes I'm more familiar with. seer --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "brentswain38" wrote: > >..."I use padeyes and blocks, and leave a line around > the boom which I tie to the cabintop handrails , or the lifelines > when reaching." > Brent > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Jim Phillips wrote: > > > > do away with an expensive traveller and instead use a block on a > transverse steel grab rail. > > > > Jim. > > > > > > seeratlas wrote: > > Another consideration is that the strength of the steel rails on > > Brent's boats far exceeds those on a wooden cabin topped ship. I'm > > planning on using mine as tackle anchor points etc. > > > > seer > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "tom" wrote: > > > > > > Hello Scott > > > The only draw back I could see by eleminating the the low grab > > rails is the > > > way Brent has them designed they protect the cabin corners from > chiping > > > paint plus if you fell against the cabin you would be hitting > round > > pipe > > > instead of a blunt corner. I have seen a lot of designes where > they > > put a > > > single hoop on both sides of the mast to acomplish the same as > the tall > > > railing would do. On my 26 I'm not planing on spending much time > on the > > > cabin roof, all lines are going to run to the cockpit. > > > Tom > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "audeojude" > > > To: > > > Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2006 11:26 AM > > > Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Grab rails > > > > > > > > > >I was just reading the current issue of This Good Old Boat > magazine > > > > and they have an article about this.. they recomend replacing > the low > > > > cabin top grab rail with a full railing that you can > comfortable grab > > > > from a standing position on the side deck and that gives > something to > > > > lean against from inside it at the mast etc.. also that if your > > > > sitting on the cabin top with feet on the side deck that you > can lean > > > > back against it. It was a very persuasive article.. lots of > utility in > > > > the idea. And the picture showing it didn't look bad. > > > > scott > > > > > > > > > > > > .--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "edward_stoneuk" > > > > > wrote: > > > >> > > > >> Tom, > > > >> I made mine just high enough that I could get my gloved hand > > > >> underneath. > > > >> Regards, > > > >> Ted > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > > > > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats- > unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > SPONSORED LINKS > > British columbia canada Vancouver island Yacht > > > > --------------------------------- > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > > > > > Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web. > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > Service. > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > > > > > > > > > Send instant messages to your online friends > http://au.messenger.yahoo.com > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > | 10823|10821|2006-04-10 13:32:22|kingsknight4life|Re: summer plans|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Carl Anderson wrote: > > Hello all, > > We are coming up to BC this summer to continue our research before building. > We would like to see any BS36, or others, that are under construction as > well as any that are finished. > If anyone is willing to let us look and tell us about their project we > would appreciate that very much. > > Thank you, > Carl Anderson > Carl You're welcome to come see my boat that is under construction. Just e-mail me when the time you get closer to your arrival date. Rowland| 10824|10804|2006-04-10 13:33:06|kingsknight4life|Re: Grab rails|Seer On my boat Brent welded on padeyes, made from stainless rod. Around the padeyes where they attached to the top of the pilothouse we put down a 2"x2" SS plate to protect against abrasion. Rowland - -- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "seeratlas" wrote: > > Brent, > How do you place your padeyes, I seem to recall you posting something > about leaving stainless nuts welded into the deck in various locations > so that you could attach something or other. Were you talking about > attaching your padeyes/block anchor points to those? or just welding > in the normal sunken eyes I'm more familiar with. > > seer | 10825|10825|2006-04-10 14:02:17|svxenos|Brent Swain 31 For sale|Unforeseen events mean we will have to sell our much loved BS 31 now in Zihuatanejo, Mexico. After two years and much $$ invested into the boat, she is ready to go anywhere. Email for more info, inventory, photos, etc.| 10826|10821|2006-04-10 14:02:26|Carl Anderson|Re: summer plans|Rowland, Thank you for the offer. We will be leaving for our summer trip shortly after the 3rd of June and spending 2 months in the northwest. I will be in touch. Carl kingsknight4life wrote: > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Carl Anderson wrote: > > > > Hello all, > > > > We are coming up to BC this summer to continue our research before > building. > > We would like to see any BS36, or others, that are under > construction as > > well as any that are finished. > > If anyone is willing to let us look and tell us about their > project we > > would appreciate that very much. > > > > Thank you, > > Carl Anderson > > > Carl > You're welcome to come see my boat that is under construction. Just > e-mail me when the time you get closer to your arrival date. > Rowland > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > * Visit your group "origamiboats > " on the web. > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > Service . > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > | 10827|10804|2006-04-10 14:38:13|seeratlas|Re: Grab rails|ok, I can visualize that :) Thanks seer --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "kingsknight4life" wrote: > > Seer > On my boat Brent welded on padeyes, made from stainless rod. Around > the padeyes where they attached to the top of the pilothouse we put > down a 2"x2" SS plate to protect against abrasion. > Rowland > - > -- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "seeratlas" wrote: > > > > Brent, > > How do you place your padeyes, I seem to recall you posting something > > about leaving stainless nuts welded into the deck in various > locations > > so that you could attach something or other. Were you talking about > > attaching your padeyes/block anchor points to those? or just welding > > in the normal sunken eyes I'm more familiar with. > > > > seer > | 10828|10821|2006-04-10 16:24:51|brentswain38|Re: summer plans|Let me know a week in advance when you'll be here. Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "kingsknight4life" wrote: > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Carl Anderson wrote: > > > > Hello all, > > > > We are coming up to BC this summer to continue our research before > building. > > We would like to see any BS36, or others, that are under > construction as > > well as any that are finished. > > If anyone is willing to let us look and tell us about their > project we > > would appreciate that very much. > > > > Thank you, > > Carl Anderson > > > Carl > You're welcome to come see my boat that is under construction. Just > e-mail me when the time you get closer to your arrival date. > Rowland > | 10831|10831|2006-04-11 22:10:28|khooper_fboats|Really Cheap Trawler|Okay I know it's off topic but a lot of thrifty people with dreams lurk this list. Also there may be a rebuildable 2-stroke diesel in this old slapper: http://www.publicsurplus.com/IANAuction?ianac=view&auc=121521 32-foot trawler in Lewisburg, PA. Judging only from the pictures, I've seen worse. Currently bid at the princely sum of $113.50 with about a week left on the auction. --Ken| 10832|10832|2006-04-12 05:42:23|Gerd|Update ROVER 36|just took the first pictures, plate cut out, stringers placed and first half hull pulled together. http://www.justmueller.com/boats/_files/rover36/rover36.htm ...scroll to the bottom of the page. I will try to take some more pictures next weekend. (There was a little mistake made, count the stringers in the bottom panel ;-) it's already fixed though.) The sheet, 4 mm and fully stringered came together without problems, and it's very fair and smooth under tension. I only wish I had placed the stringers first like that for my own boat, it is mucb more work to fit them in after. My own boat is now dry again after the flood, and once I have managed to clean all the mud out of the house, maybe next week, I will finally start my own building season. Gerd The YAGO PROJECT at http://www.justmueller.com/boats/| 10842|10842|2006-04-13 17:44:47|mkriley@fuse.net|Re: Digest Number 1517|pleas list your welding skills in your profile OH! and a picture of the welder! mike ---- origamiboats@yahoogroups.com wrote: > There are 2 messages in this issue. > > Topics in this digest: > > 1. hi, I want to chat with you and make friends. > From: "dating_tall_friends" > 2. Hi, I like your profile very much, Can we chat? > From: "justliketallmen" > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > ________________________________________________________________________ > > Message: 1 > Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 05:25:45 -0000 > From: "dating_tall_friends" > Subject: hi, I want to chat with you and make friends. > > hi, I want to chat with you and make friends.Nice to meet you.I want to > share anything good and valuable with you, I want to make you happy, > because seeing you smill makes me happy. I love my friends. > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > ________________________________________________________________________ > > Message: 2 > Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 05:27:32 -0000 > From: "justliketallmen" > Subject: Hi, I like your profile very much, Can we chat? > > Registered a complete free profile, then search by username, my > username is Chloe1023,Check out my profile to decide whether chat with > or not! I want to make friends with the person who is serious about > replationship and love! > > http://www.geocities.com/justliketallmen/ > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > ________________________________________________________________________ > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > | 10843|10842|2006-04-13 21:37:11|cirejay|Re: Digest Number 1517|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, wrote: > > please list your welding skills in your profile > OH! and a picture of the welder! > mike LOL eric S/V Nebaras| 10844|9840|2006-04-13 21:53:27|tazmannusa|BS 26|Hello All Been making progress this week managed to get the railing and the seat backs put on, at first taking the measurements from the plans on the heigth of the seat backs they seemed way to tall but I did them that way anyway, took me a little bit to get used to the way they look but they are very confey when sitting in the cockpit. I posted a couple more photos in origamiboats2. Happy Easter Tom| 10845|10842|2006-04-13 23:09:39|woodcraftssuch|Re: Digest Number 1517|> LOL > > eric S/V Nebaras Does this mean you're smilling? Sam| 10846|10842|2006-04-14 19:45:08|cirejay|Re: Digest Number 1517|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "woodcraftssuch" wrote: > > > > LOL > > > > eric S/V Nebaras > > Does this mean you're smilling? Sam Nope, it means I'm Laughing Out Loud. Great reply to Spam. You were kidding weren't you? :-) eric| 10847|10847|2006-04-14 20:14:16|coyboys@comcast.net|Spammers|Alex, help! We're being invaded. I vote group for Nautical, not dip heads. Nicole [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]| 10848|10847|2006-04-14 23:44:50|Alex Christie|Re: Spammers|Spam is a fact of life on the net, sadly. I ban these fake members each time they post stuff like this, so they can't re-join and re-spam, if that's any consolation! Alex ----- Original Message ----- From: coyboys@... To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, April 14, 2006 4:22 PM Subject: [origamiboats] Spammers Alex, help! We're being invaded. I vote group for Nautical, not dip heads. Nicole [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 10849|10847|2006-04-15 00:13:05|kendall|Re: Spammers|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Alex Christie wrote: > > Spam is a fact of life on the net, sadly. I ban these fake members each time they post stuff like this, so they can't re-join and re-spam, if that's any consolation! > > Alex > It is, too many groups are lost to spammers, nice to see someone keeping watch. ken.| 10850|10842|2006-04-16 14:37:08|woodcraftssuch|Re: Digest Number 1517|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "cirejay" wrote: > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "woodcraftssuch" > wrote: > > > > > > > LOL > > > > > > eric S/V Nebaras > > > > Does this mean you're smilling? Sam > > Nope, it means I'm Laughing Out Loud. Great reply to Spam. You were > kidding weren't you? :-) > > eric > Yes, just kidding. Sort of a backhanded comment that if they are going to spam half the world, they could at least get the spelling right.It made me 'smill'. I agree , that was a great reply by Mike. Sam| 10851|1131|2006-04-17 13:14:55|Gary|Dry exhaust|Brent: A bit of a re-visit to this topic. As I explained to you I am having trouble with my salt water intake for exhaust cooling. I lose the prime after healing when under sail and the pump will not pull up sea water forcing a re-prime. Anyone else out there using dry exhaust and how have you done it paricularly the heat issue. Anything new Brent from your previous advice? Thanks... Gary| 10852|10768|2006-04-17 15:38:31|Carl Volkwein|Re: Novel drive: was, Where did everyone go ?|kendall wrote: --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "cirejay" wrote: > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "kendall" wrote: > > > It's times like that where you don't fight the wind and instead > work > > with it to move if not where you want to go, at least away from > where > > you don't. > > I have a friend, a great helmsman, if your racing around the buoys, > who just can't understand the concept of a lee shore. It seems to > be one of those concepts that must be empirically driven home; that > feeling of dread, knowing that nothing you do will get you off. > Whenever we would do an overnight on Lake Erie I'd wake for my watch > to find us a mile or so closer to shore than I left orders for the > boat to be. As sure as Bob's your uncle, the shore is your enemy. > > Now Ken, you may be a much better sailor than I am - many are - but > in my 50 years of sailing, much of it singlehanded, I've come to > grips with the fact that I'm not a very good sailor, that I'm not > always able to work with the wind and, don't forget currents, to get > at least away from where I don't want to go. That is why the boat > I'm refitting to head up into the high latitudes, singlehanded, is > getting a new strong, diesel. > > eric S/V Nebaras > Not saying let the wind push you to the shore, I mean if you're fighting the wind and still losing ground it's time to angle off as much as possible to pull some of the winds teeth. Don't angle off enouh to get broadside to the wind, just enough that you are fighting the wind on a diagonal instead of dead on. The advantage of a good strong engine is not arguable, but there are times, as in the original post, that the engine can only slow you down and you have to take steps to minimize the opposition, not sure of the exact math, but veering off can reduce the apparent force by a seeming third I'd not claim to be a better sailer than anyone else,in my opinion all sailers are in training. Frankly I wouldn't expect everyone to react in the same way as me to a pop quiz, most often my responses worked out, and when they haven't it's been exam time. ken. Hey Brent, & Everyone, On the 20',What would be wrong whith a set of oars? Carl, I did spend some time as a raftguide? Carl, from W.V. To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com SPONSORED LINKS British columbia canada Vancouver island Yacht --------------------------------- YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. --------------------------------- --------------------------------- Blab-away for as little as 1¢/min. Make PC-to-Phone Calls using Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]| 10853|10768|2006-04-17 15:52:41|Carl Volkwein|Re: Novel drive: was, Where did everyone go ?|seeratlas wrote: ok, now i'm going to qualify what i'm about to say by telling you none of this is theory, none of this is armchair pondering, its all based on what i've physically seen, we're talking empirical evidence here. "IF" you're going to sail, there is going to come a time when you need to go from where you are, to somewhere pretty much dead into the wind, and you need to do it RIGHT NOW!!!!. AND, more than likely, dead into the wind is going to be dead into a mean piece of sea. No sculling, no tacking, no waiving down a passing powerboat...you're going to be on your own, and at that moment, if you CAN'T go dead into the wind, in a seaway, you are going to tear the hell out of your boat, if not lose it completely, and maybe worse. Now my lifetime of sailing has led me to conclude that there are two ways of designing/building a boat. You can design/build for halcyon days, 14knot breezes from the stern quarter, and calm-softly rolling seas..which may very well end up 60 percent of your life's sailing...If your a prototypical fair weather sailor (and nothing wrong with that) then this works fine..... OR, you can design for that hopefully rare, life-threatening moment, that some sailors will never see, with horrifically steep seas, wind dead on the nose, and something REALLY REALLY BAD dead astern.... take your pick. two things to remember, there are a LOT more 'bad things" to hit: 1. near the shore, 2. In the harbor 3. in and around the docks than there are in the middle of the deep blue.... I've seen somewhere around 15-20 yachts lost within 100 yards of shore, when the wind veered to the nose, the sea came up, and they couldn't power off anchor. Just remember, when giving advice to less experienced sailors, realize that to the extent they actually take your advice.....well...make sure its good advice. seer --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "kendall" wrote: > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Michael Casling wrote: > > > > When we had a mini tornado come through the fleet during a regatta a > few years ago, the only boats that could go to windward were the ones > with diesels. > > The steep waves close together, made it next to impossible for any > of the boats with OBMs to go anywhere, except where the wind blew them. > > For some that meant straight at a floating bridge that was about one > mile away. > > The OBMs on a small boat can be a lot less hassle than a diesel, but > at times they can be useless. > > I have one of each. > > > > Michael > > It's times like that where you don't fight the wind and instead work > with it to move if not where you want to go, at least away from where > you don't. > > Ken. You're rite, I'm not a very expienced sailor. I wasn't a bad raft guide for a few years. And anouther thing, those raft's weren't real easy'being so flexable and all, also have a picture of me in one, alone and in white-water, of coarse that was all down stream .Carl from W.V. > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com --------------------------------- YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. --------------------------------- --------------------------------- Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+ countries) for 2¢/min or less. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 10854|10768|2006-04-17 15:57:51|Carl Volkwein|Re: Novel drive: was, Where did everyone go ?|seeratlas wrote: ok, now i'm going to qualify what i'm about to say by telling you none of this is theory, none of this is armchair pondering, its all based on what i've physically seen, we're talking empirical evidence here. "IF" you're going to sail, there is going to come a time when you need to go from where you are, to somewhere pretty much dead into the wind, and you need to do it RIGHT NOW!!!!. AND, more than likely, dead into the wind is going to be dead into a mean piece of sea. No sculling, no tacking, no waiving down a passing powerboat...you're going to be on your own, and at that moment, if you CAN'T go dead into the wind, in a seaway, you are going to tear the hell out of your boat, if not lose it completely, and maybe worse. Now my lifetime of sailing has led me to conclude that there are two ways of designing/building a boat. You can design/build for halcyon days, 14knot breezes from the stern quarter, and calm-softly rolling seas..which may very well end up 60 percent of your life's sailing...If your a prototypical fair weather sailor (and nothing wrong with that) then this works fine..... OR, you can design for that hopefully rare, life-threatening moment, that some sailors will never see, with horrifically steep seas, wind dead on the nose, and something REALLY REALLY BAD dead astern.... take your pick. two things to remember, there are a LOT more 'bad things" to hit: 1. near the shore, 2. In the harbor 3. in and around the docks than there are in the middle of the deep blue.... I've seen somewhere around 15-20 yachts lost within 100 yards of shore, when the wind veered to the nose, the sea came up, and they couldn't power off anchor. Just remember, when giving advice to less experienced sailors, realize that to the extent they actually take your advice.....well...make sure its good advice. seer --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "kendall" wrote: > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Michael Casling wrote: > > > > When we had a mini tornado come through the fleet during a regatta a > few years ago, the only boats that could go to windward were the ones > with diesels. > > The steep waves close together, made it next to impossible for any > of the boats with OBMs to go anywhere, except where the wind blew them. > > For some that meant straight at a floating bridge that was about one > mile away. > > The OBMs on a small boat can be a lot less hassle than a diesel, but > at times they can be useless. > > I have one of each. > > > > Michael > > It's times like that where you don't fight the wind and instead work > with it to move if not where you want to go, at least away from where > you don't. > > Ken. > Good point, Carl, from W.V. To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com --------------------------------- YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. --------------------------------- --------------------------------- Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1¢/min. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 10855|10768|2006-04-17 16:08:01|Carl Volkwein|Re: Novel drive: was, Where did everyone go ?|seeratlas wrote: Brent has advised again and again to keep the weight out of the stern of the boat. The Swain designs are designed with some exactitude. You must be careful when deviating as the ship is meant to work together as a whole, and as designed. IMHO the main problem with a small sailboat in a seaway with an outboard is that because the ends of a sailboat are designed for fine entry and exit, they can do some hobby horsing. A prop that is constantly cycling between immersion, and splashing around at the surface isn't going to give you much drive into the teeth of the weather...and isn't that one of the primary situations in which auxillary power is most desired? As for drag..a simple inboard setup with one of Brent's folding prop designs would seem a reasonable alternative. seer --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "sae140" wrote: > > The worst features of an outboard being ... ? > > Well, the industry considers the vertical crankshaft to be > the limiting feature of outboard engines - the basic design > of which hasn't changed significantly since the 60's - to > which I would add the weight at the stern and high up at that. > So their casings are duly made from aluminium to counter > this weight, and so you end up with a corrodable metal mix. > There has also been the trend to use small, high-speed > propellors, so that outboards could hopefully become a "one- > size fits all" solution. But what I am suggesting avoids all > of these issues. > > There's still the problem of right-angle gearing - which is > inherent with all transom drives (except the Thai-style river > boats). OK - so that's a negative. > > I have no idea what you mean by the worst features of an > inboard engine - I can think of a few 'less than perfect > features', but then there are lots of negatives to sailing > boats if you go looking for 'em. > Focus on negatives if you must. I prefer a more positive > perspective. > > Colin > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Gary H. Lucas" > wrote: > > > > So let's see, you still have all the worst features of an outboard, > combined > > with all the worst features of an inboard. I think I see how this > works, > > it's like Home Depot. Take the worst plumbing store, the worst > electrical > > store, the worst flooring store, the worst garden center, put them > all under > > one roof and you get? > > > > Gary H. Lucas > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "sae140" > > To: > > Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2006 7:36 AM > > Subject: [origamiboats] Novel drive: was, Where did everyone go ? > > > > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Jon & Wanda(Tink)" > > > wrote: > > >> > > >> Where did everyone go did you all go to find a new partner and > can > > > she > > >> weld or sandblast LOL > > >> > > >> Jon > > >> > > > > > > > > > Well, as it's a bit quiet - maybe this is a good time to air > > > an idea I've been having re: a new kind of boat drive. > > > > > > A few weeks back I posted about a Seagull outboard leg making > > > a good auxillary sailboat drive, as the bigger Seagulls use > > > large props and 4:1 gearing. Someone suggested lifting the leg > > > up vertically to clear the water. Brent later posted about > > > controlling the rudder's trim-tab with a rod poked through > > > the transom .... > > > > > > So - putting these diverse ideas together and mashing 'em > > > around, the ageing cerebral computer came up with the > > > following: > > > > > > Seagull-style outboard leg with a right-angle drive fitted > > > in place of the engine. This drive is then taken straight > > > through the transom, above the water-line. Then connected > > > to conventional marine engine/gearbox via UJ or CV joints. > > > To get the prop out of the water, the leg is *rotated* upwards. > > > > > > The advantages of this system are: one less through-hull and > > > the possibility of no through-hull openings whatsoever below > > > the water-line. The prop can be lifted clear of the water > > > when sailing - no prop drag whatsoever. Probably no need for > > > anodes to protect the prop, as it will no longer be subjected > > > to continuous immersion. Weight at the blunt end will be > > > less then that of an equivalent outboard. Larger multi-bladed > > > props that would otherwise be unsuitable for sailboats can now > > > be used. Much lighter than, and much cheaper than Z-drives > > > with their expensive rubber boots and other parts. No big > > > hole cut in the transom either. > > > > > > The disadvantages are: a prop sticking up in the air won't > > > look any too pretty, so no good for floating gin-palaces. But > > > for cruising sailboats ? > > > A Seagull leg will lose it's oil when inverted, so sadly these > > > can't be used 'as is'. There's a need for lip-seals to prevent > > > oil loss, so we're talking custom fabrication. But right-angle > > > gearboxes are standard industrial items. > > > > > > Location of the drive will be to one side of the rudder - the > > > side being chosen to offset prop-walk to give a basic 'boat > > > pusher' configuration. However, by allowing the leg to swing > > > 'over-centre' and into a cavity cut into the rudder to allow > > > prop-wash to flow over the rudder blade, better steering > > > efficiency under power would result. > > > > > > But why hasn't this been thought of before ? Well, I found > > > out yesterday that it has. > > > US Patent 187407 (from an Englishman - wacky drives obviously > > > being an English thing !) was filed back in the 1950's. I've > > > uploaded a couple of pics into OrigamiBoats2/Files/Transom Drive > > > which show the basic principle. > > > > > > Colin > > >Because, Seagull outboards are pretty good allready. Carl, from W.V. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > > > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com --------------------------------- YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. --------------------------------- --------------------------------- How low will we go? Check out Yahoo! MessengerÂ’s low PC-to-Phone call rates. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 10856|10768|2006-04-17 16:11:21|Carl Volkwein|Re: Novel drive: was, Where did everyone go ?|seeratlas wrote: Brent has advised again and again to keep the weight out of the stern of the boat. The Swain designs are designed with some exactitude. You must be careful when deviating as the ship is meant to work together as a whole, and as designed. IMHO the main problem with a small sailboat in a seaway with an outboard is that because the ends of a sailboat are designed for fine entry and exit, they can do some hobby horsing. A prop that is constantly cycling between immersion, and splashing around at the surface isn't going to give you much drive into the teeth of the weather...and isn't that one of the primary situations in which auxillary power is most desired? As for drag..a simple inboard setup with one of Brent's folding prop designs would seem a reasonable alternative. seer --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "sae140" wrote: > > The worst features of an outboard being ... ? > > Well, the industry considers the vertical crankshaft to be > the limiting feature of outboard engines - the basic design > of which hasn't changed significantly since the 60's - to > which I would add the weight at the stern and high up at that. > So their casings are duly made from aluminium to counter > this weight, and so you end up with a corrodable metal mix. > There has also been the trend to use small, high-speed > propellors, so that outboards could hopefully become a "one- > size fits all" solution. But what I am suggesting avoids all > of these issues. > > There's still the problem of right-angle gearing - which is > inherent with all transom drives (except the Thai-style river > boats). OK - so that's a negative. > > I have no idea what you mean by the worst features of an > inboard engine - I can think of a few 'less than perfect > features', but then there are lots of negatives to sailing > boats if you go looking for 'em. > Focus on negatives if you must. I prefer a more positive > perspective. > > Colin > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Gary H. Lucas" > wrote: > > > > So let's see, you still have all the worst features of an outboard, > combined > > with all the worst features of an inboard. I think I see how this > works, > > it's like Home Depot. Take the worst plumbing store, the worst > electrical > > store, the worst flooring store, the worst garden center, put them > all under > > one roof and you get? > > > > Gary H. Lucas > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "sae140" > > To: > > Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2006 7:36 AM > > Subject: [origamiboats] Novel drive: was, Where did everyone go ? > > > > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Jon & Wanda(Tink)" > > > wrote: > > >> > > >> Where did everyone go did you all go to find a new partner and > can > > > she > > >> weld or sandblast LOL > > >> > > >> Jon > > >> > > > > > > > > > Well, as it's a bit quiet - maybe this is a good time to air > > > an idea I've been having re: a new kind of boat drive. > > > > > > A few weeks back I posted about a Seagull outboard leg making > > > a good auxillary sailboat drive, as the bigger Seagulls use > > > large props and 4:1 gearing. Someone suggested lifting the leg > > > up vertically to clear the water. Brent later posted about > > > controlling the rudder's trim-tab with a rod poked through > > > the transom .... > > > > > > So - putting these diverse ideas together and mashing 'em > > > around, the ageing cerebral computer came up with the > > > following: > > > > > > Seagull-style outboard leg with a right-angle drive fitted > > > in place of the engine. This drive is then taken straight > > > through the transom, above the water-line. Then connected > > > to conventional marine engine/gearbox via UJ or CV joints. > > > To get the prop out of the water, the leg is *rotated* upwards. > > > > > > The advantages of this system are: one less through-hull and > > > the possibility of no through-hull openings whatsoever below > > > the water-line. The prop can be lifted clear of the water > > > when sailing - no prop drag whatsoever. Probably no need for > > > anodes to protect the prop, as it will no longer be subjected > > > to continuous immersion. Weight at the blunt end will be > > > less then that of an equivalent outboard. Larger multi-bladed > > > props that would otherwise be unsuitable for sailboats can now > > > be used. Much lighter than, and much cheaper than Z-drives > > > with their expensive rubber boots and other parts. No big > > > hole cut in the transom either. > > > > > > The disadvantages are: a prop sticking up in the air won't > > > look any too pretty, so no good for floating gin-palaces. But > > > for cruising sailboats ? > > > A Seagull leg will lose it's oil when inverted, so sadly these > > > can't be used 'as is'. There's a need for lip-seals to prevent > > > oil loss, so we're talking custom fabrication. But right-angle > > > gearboxes are standard industrial items. > > > > > > Location of the drive will be to one side of the rudder - the > > > side being chosen to offset prop-walk to give a basic 'boat > > > pusher' configuration. However, by allowing the leg to swing > > > 'over-centre' and into a cavity cut into the rudder to allow > > > prop-wash to flow over the rudder blade, better steering > > > efficiency under power would result. > > > > > > But why hasn't this been thought of before ? Well, I found > > > out yesterday that it has. > > > US Patent 187407 (from an Englishman - wacky drives obviously > > > being an English thing !) was filed back in the 1950's. I've > > > uploaded a couple of pics into OrigamiBoats2/Files/Transom Drive > > > which show the basic principle. > > > > > > Colin > > > > > >Lighter too, I can retreav a Seagull with one hand. Carl, fromW.V. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > > > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com --------------------------------- YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. --------------------------------- --------------------------------- New Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Call regular phones from your PC and save big. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 10857|10768|2006-04-17 16:47:34|Carl Volkwein|Re: Novel drive: was, Where did everyone go ?|seeratlas wrote: ok, now i'm going to qualify what i'm about to say by telling you none of this is theory, none of this is armchair pondering, its all based on what i've physically seen, we're talking empirical evidence here. "IF" you're going to sail, there is going to come a time when you need to go from where you are, to somewhere pretty much dead into the wind, and you need to do it RIGHT NOW!!!!. AND, more than likely, dead into the wind is going to be dead into a mean piece of sea. No sculling, no tacking, no waiving down a passing powerboat...you're going to be on your own, and at that moment, if you CAN'T go dead into the wind, in a seaway, you are going to tear the hell out of your boat, if not lose it completely, and maybe worse. Now my lifetime of sailing has led me to conclude that there are two ways of designing/building a boat. You can design/build for halcyon days, 14knot breezes from the stern quarter, and calm-softly rolling seas..which may very well end up 60 percent of your life's sailing...If your a prototypical fair weather sailor (and nothing wrong with that) then this works fine..... OR, you can design for that hopefully rare, life-threatening moment, that some sailors will never see, with horrifically steep seas, wind dead on the nose, and something REALLY REALLY BAD dead astern.... take your pick. two things to remember, there are a LOT more 'bad things" to hit: 1. near the shore, 2. In the harbor 3. in and around the docks than there are in the middle of the deep blue.... I've seen somewhere around 15-20 yachts lost within 100 yards of shore, when the wind veered to the nose, the sea came up, and they couldn't power off anchor. Just remember, when giving advice to less experienced sailors, realize that to the extent they actually take your advice.....well...make sure its good advice. seer --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "kendall" wrote: > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Michael Casling wrote: > > > > When we had a mini tornado come through the fleet during a regatta a > few years ago, the only boats that could go to windward were the ones > with diesels. > > The steep waves close together, made it next to impossible for any > of the boats with OBMs to go anywhere, except where the wind blew them. > > For some that meant straight at a floating bridge that was about one > mile away. > > The OBMs on a small boat can be a lot less hassle than a diesel, but > at times they can be useless. > > I have one of each. > > > > Michael > > It's times like that where you don't fight the wind and instead work > with it to move if not where you want to go, at least away from where > you don't. > > Ken. > What about a weed-eater whith a prop on it? To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com --------------------------------- YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. --------------------------------- --------------------------------- Blab-away for as little as 1¢/min. Make PC-to-Phone Calls using Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 10858|10768|2006-04-17 17:08:21|cirejay|Re: Novel drive: was, Where did everyone go ?|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Carl Volkwein wrote: > > > > seeratlas Is this ground hog day? :-) eric S/V Nebaras| 10859|10768|2006-04-18 04:58:44|edward_stoneuk|Re: Novel drive: was, Where did everyone go ?|I guess it must be Eric. I said I guess it must be. Regards, Ted| 10860|10768|2006-04-18 05:03:45|cirejay|Re: Novel drive: was, Where did everyone go ? Ground hog day|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "edward_stoneuk" wrote: > > I guess it must be Eric. I said I guess it must be. > Regards, > Ted LOL LOL eric S/V Nebaras| 10861|10768|2006-04-18 14:29:27|brentswain38|Re: Novel drive: was, Where did everyone go ?|On my last boat I had a 4 hp diesel. It couldn't power into much, and I couldn't sail into much with just the mainsail sheeted in hard, but combine the two and I could motorsail into anything. I'm surprised how few people learn how to sail an anchor out.It's scary. To sail an anchor out, you hoist the mainsail and sheet her in hard. Then you go to the bow and start cranking the anchor up. The boat tacks from side to side . When it goes on one tack, the anchor rode goes slack, and you crank in the slack . When the boat fetches up against the rode before going on the other tack , you stop cranking and wait for the slack when it is on the other tack. Then you crank some more until it fetches up , wait for the tack , then start cranking in the slack.When the scope looks short enough to break the anchor out, you wait for her to be on the tack you want , then crank like hell to make sure it breaks the anchor out while on that tack. Leaving the engine idling at the time is a good idea. When you have to get out of a tight hole , and don't have time to run back to the cockpit before she heads for the rocks, you lead your anchor rode aft before you start cranking it in. Then you crank your anchor rode in with the sheet winches from the cockpit.. You can wind it on the drum later ,after you have gotten safely out into clear water with sea room. --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Carl Volkwein wrote: > > > > seeratlas wrote: ok, > now i'm going to qualify what i'm about to say by telling you none of > this is theory, none of this is armchair pondering, its all based on > what i've physically seen, we're talking empirical evidence here. > > "IF" you're going to sail, there is going to come a time when you need > to go from where you are, to somewhere pretty much dead into the wind, > and you need to do it RIGHT NOW!!!!. AND, more than likely, dead into > the wind is going to be dead into a mean piece of sea. No sculling, no > tacking, no waiving down a passing powerboat...you're going to be on > your own, and at that moment, if you CAN'T go dead into the wind, in a > seaway, you are going to tear the hell out of your boat, if not lose > it completely, and maybe worse. > > Now my lifetime of sailing has led me to conclude that there are two > ways of designing/building a boat. You can design/build for halcyon > days, 14knot breezes from the stern quarter, and calm-softly rolling > seas..which may very well end up 60 percent of your life's > sailing...If your a prototypical fair weather sailor (and nothing > wrong with that) then this works fine..... > > OR, you can design for that hopefully rare, life-threatening moment, > that some sailors will never see, with horrifically steep seas, wind > dead on the nose, and something REALLY REALLY BAD dead astern.... > > take your pick. > > two things to remember, there are a LOT more 'bad things" to hit: > 1. near the shore, > 2. In the harbor > 3. in and around the docks > > than there are in the middle of the deep blue.... > > I've seen somewhere around 15-20 yachts lost within 100 yards of > shore, when the wind veered to the nose, the sea came up, and they > couldn't power off anchor. > > Just remember, when giving advice to less experienced sailors, realize > that to the extent they actually take your advice.....well...make sure > its good advice. > > seer > > > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "kendall" wrote: > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Michael Casling wrote: > > > > > > When we had a mini tornado come through the fleet during a regatta a > > few years ago, the only boats that could go to windward were the ones > > with diesels. > > > The steep waves close together, made it next to impossible for any > > of the boats with OBMs to go anywhere, except where the wind blew them. > > > For some that meant straight at a floating bridge that was about one > > mile away. > > > The OBMs on a small boat can be a lot less hassle than a diesel, but > > at times they can be useless. > > > I have one of each. > > > > > > Michael > > > > It's times like that where you don't fight the wind and instead work > > with it to move if not where you want to go, at least away from where > > you don't. > > > > Ken. > > What about a weed-eater whith a prop on it? > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats- unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > --------------------------------- > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > > Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > > --------------------------------- > > > > > > --------------------------------- > Blab-away for as little as 1¢/min. Make PC-to-Phone Calls using Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > | 10862|1131|2006-04-18 14:45:11|brentswain38|Re: Dry exhaust|It's amazing how deep you have to go before an intake stops sucking air. I had to run my head intake much lower to stop it from sucking air on one tack. One client had to run an intake nearly to the centreline to avoid sucking air, which it looks like what I will have to do for my watermaker intake. This is just the first of many problems you will have with watercooled exhuast before you give up such a goofy idea and go for a dry exhuast. One diesel mechanic said "If everyone went for keel cooling and dry exhuast we'd all be out of work." That is why some mechanics insist that a yacht must have a wet exhuast, so that they will have a lot of repair work to keep them busy. Commercial guys just laugh at yachties for being such suckers. A couple I met in Tonga on my last trip there went thru two engines since 1998 , both corroded out by wet exhuasts. They are putting a dry exhuast in this time. Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Gary" wrote: > > Brent: A bit of a re-visit to this topic. As I explained to you I am > having trouble with my salt water intake for exhaust cooling. I lose > the prime after healing when under sail and the pump will not pull up > sea water forcing a re-prime. Anyone else out there using dry exhaust > and how have you done it paricularly the heat issue. Anything new > Brent from your previous advice? > > Thanks... Gary > | 10863|10863|2006-04-18 17:47:30|Derrick|Steel Tahiti Ketch For Sale $10000 CDN or b/o|Hello All, I have found myself in a position where I have to sell my Tahiti. I purchased it last year and sailed/motored it 450 nmiles home to start the rebuild. I was just transferred to Vancouver and the boat has been left in Ontario. As I said, it is steel. It is not a Tahitiana as some might think, rather a Tahiti pure and true. It has a 20hp Sabb diesel with variable pitch prop. This is a project boat, and the price reflects that. If anyone is interested, I have pictures that I can email. Thanks for the interest, Derrick| 10864|10863|2006-04-18 17:57:05|Carl Nostrand|Re: Steel Tahiti Ketch For Sale $10000 CDN or b/o|Hello from Alaska, Please send me the profile of your Tahiti. I'm headed east soon. Thanks, Carl On Apr 18, 2006, at 1:47 PM, Derrick wrote: > Hello All, > I have found myself in a position where I have to sell my Tahiti. I > purchased it last year and sailed/motored it 450 nmiles home to start > the rebuild. I was just transferred to Vancouver and the boat has been > left in Ontario. > As I said, it is steel. It is not a Tahitiana as some might think, > rather a Tahiti pure and true. It has a 20hp Sabb diesel with variable > pitch prop. This is a project boat, and the price reflects that. If > anyone is interested, I have pictures that I can email. > Thanks for the interest, > Derrick > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > | 10865|1131|2006-04-18 19:27:22|mickeyolaf|Re: Dry exhaust|A dry boat, a dry sense of humour, dry shorts, and a dry exhaust makes for a happy sailor. boats@yahoogroups.com, "brentswain38" wrote: > > It's amazing how deep you have to go before an intake stops sucking > air. I had to run my head intake much lower to stop it from sucking air > on one tack. One client had to run an intake nearly to the centreline > to avoid sucking air, which it looks like what I will have to do for my > watermaker intake. > This is just the first of many problems you will have with watercooled > exhuast before you give up such a goofy idea and go for a dry exhuast. > One diesel mechanic said "If everyone went for keel cooling and dry > exhuast we'd all be out of work." That is why some mechanics insist > that a yacht must have a wet exhuast, so that they will have a lot of > repair work to keep them busy. Commercial guys just laugh at yachties > for being such suckers. > A couple I met in Tonga on my last trip there went thru two engines > since 1998 , both corroded out by wet exhuasts. They are putting a dry > exhuast in this time. > Brent > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Gary" wrote: > > > > Brent: A bit of a re-visit to this topic. As I explained to you I > am > > having trouble with my salt water intake for exhaust cooling. I lose > > the prime after healing when under sail and the pump will not pull up > > sea water forcing a re-prime. Anyone else out there using dry > exhaust > > and how have you done it paricularly the heat issue. Anything new > > Brent from your previous advice? > > > > Thanks... Gary > > > | 10866|10866|2006-04-18 20:04:24|mickeyolaf|Victoria Swap Meet|For those of you builders living on the Rock there is a Marine Swap Meet in Victoria this coming Sunday @ 0800am. It is at Ogden Point. Happy swapping. I went to the Seattle Marine Swap Meet last weekend. Saw Roland and his first mate there. I picked up a few treasures i.e. a new combo deck/bow light for $60 which retails $204, new SS antenna mount for $5, retail $42, four new battery switches $5 each, three of which retail for $56 and one high amp model which retails for $134, a bronze highfield forestay release lever for $30 which is retail $195. So all in all a good trip. It took four hours to talk the guy with the bow/deck light down to 60 from 110. I received my new boom from US Spars for $350 US last week. Had to rent a trailor to get it home. It still worked out to $3163 CDN less than the price I was quoted by a BC mast builder for a new boom. Scrounging new boat parts for next to nothing must be the male equivalent to the women's shoe sale feeding frenzy. I don't understand the shoe thing and my wife doesn't get the parts thing. I am still hunting down a new aluminum mast and if my luck holds will find one this year. Otherwise I will be a motor instead a motorsailor. My poor bride. I right now have an unassembled windcharger on the kitchen floor, turnbuckles and a traveller track on the kitchen counter, a box of fenders in the pantry. I better make the berths comfortable, I may be living on my boat. Would it hurt if you got hit by a thrown turnbuckle?| 10867|10863|2006-04-19 09:25:23|Aaron Williams|Re: Steel Tahiti Ketch For Sale $10000 CDN or b/o|Carl Are there any BS boats in Homer? Aaron in Kenai Carl Nostrand wrote: Hello from Alaska, Please send me the profile of your Tahiti. I'm headed east soon. Thanks, Carl On Apr 18, 2006, at 1:47 PM, Derrick wrote: > Hello All, > I have found myself in a position where I have to sell my Tahiti. I > purchased it last year and sailed/motored it 450 nmiles home to start > the rebuild. I was just transferred to Vancouver and the boat has been > left in Ontario. > As I said, it is steel. It is not a Tahitiana as some might think, > rather a Tahiti pure and true. It has a 20hp Sabb diesel with variable > pitch prop. This is a project boat, and the price reflects that. If > anyone is interested, I have pictures that I can email. > Thanks for the interest, > Derrick > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com SPONSORED LINKS British columbia canada Vancouver island Yacht --------------------------------- YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. --------------------------------- --------------------------------- How low will we go? Check out Yahoo! MessengerÂ’s low PC-to-Phone call rates. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 10868|1131|2006-04-19 09:48:26|edward_stoneuk|Re: Dry exhaust|Are there any views on using galvanised pipe exhausts as opposed to stainless exhausts? I was down in Brixham on the Devon coast at the weekend. All the fishing boats that I saw had rusty mild steel exhaust pipes. I have a stainless muffler and some scrap Renault truck stainless exhaust about Ø2", but it is a bit thin walled for my welding skills and I was wondering if galvanised pipe wouldn't be better. What is the best way to stop the sea coming back up the pipe in a following sea? I am thinking of putting a flap over the end. Regards, Ted| 10869|10863|2006-04-19 11:24:24|Carl Nostrand|Re: Steel Tahiti Ketch For Sale $10000 CDN or b/o|Aaron, Not that I know about. Are you thinking of building? Carl On Apr 19, 2006, at 5:23 AM, Aaron Williams wrote: > Carl > Are there any BS boats in Homer? > Aaron in Kenai > > Carl Nostrand wrote: > Hello from Alaska, > > Please send me the profile of your Tahiti. I'm headed east soon. > > Thanks, > > Carl > On Apr 18, 2006, at 1:47 PM, Derrick wrote: > >> Hello All, >> I have found myself in a position where I have to sell my Tahiti. I >> purchased it last year and sailed/motored it 450 nmiles home to start >> the rebuild. I was just transferred to Vancouver and the boat has been >> left in Ontario. >> As I said, it is steel. It is not a Tahitiana as some might think, >> rather a Tahiti pure and true. It has a 20hp Sabb diesel with variable >> pitch prop. This is a project boat, and the price reflects that. If >> anyone is interested, I have pictures that I can email. >> Thanks for the interest, >> Derrick >> >> >> >> >> >> To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com >> To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: >> origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com >> Yahoo! Groups Links >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > SPONSORED LINKS > British columbia canada Vancouver island Yacht > > --------------------------------- > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > > Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > Service. > > > --------------------------------- > > > > > > --------------------------------- > How low will we go? Check out Yahoo! Messenger’s low PC-to-Phone call > rates. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > | 10870|10863|2006-04-19 12:03:16|Carl Volkwein|Re: Steel Tahiti Ketch For Sale $10000 CDN or b/o|Yes I'd be interested in seeing photos also. Carl Volkwein @ Yahoo . Com Carl Nostrand wrote: Hello from Alaska, Please send me the profile of your Tahiti. I'm headed east soon. Thanks, Carl On Apr 18, 2006, at 1:47 PM, Derrick wrote: > Hello All, > I have found myself in a position where I have to sell my Tahiti. I > purchased it last year and sailed/motored it 450 nmiles home to start > the rebuild. I was just transferred to Vancouver and the boat has been > left in Ontario. > As I said, it is steel. It is not a Tahitiana as some might think, > rather a Tahiti pure and true. It has a 20hp Sabb diesel with variable > pitch prop. This is a project boat, and the price reflects that. If > anyone is interested, I have pictures that I can email. > Thanks for the interest, > Derrick > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com SPONSORED LINKS British columbia canada Vancouver island Yacht --------------------------------- YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. --------------------------------- --------------------------------- Love cheap thrills? Enjoy PC-to-Phone calls to 30+ countries for just 2¢/min with Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 10871|10768|2006-04-19 12:24:26|Carl Volkwein|Re: Novel drive: was, Where did everyone go ?|brentswain38 wrote: On my last boat I had a 4 hp diesel. It couldn't power into much, and I couldn't sail into much with just the mainsail sheeted in hard, but combine the two and I could motorsail into anything. I'm surprised how few people learn how to sail an anchor out.It's scary. To sail an anchor out, you hoist the mainsail and sheet her in hard. Then you go to the bow and start cranking the anchor up. The boat tacks from side to side . When it goes on one tack, the anchor rode goes slack, and you crank in the slack . When the boat fetches up against the rode before going on the other tack , you stop cranking and wait for the slack when it is on the other tack. Then you crank some more until it fetches up , wait for the tack , then start cranking in the slack.When the scope looks short enough to break the anchor out, you wait for her to be on the tack you want , then crank like hell to make sure it breaks the anchor out while on that tack. Leaving the engine idling at the time is a good idea. When you have to get out of a tight hole , and don't have time to run back to the cockpit before she heads for the rocks, you lead your anchor rode aft before you start cranking it in. Then you crank your anchor rode in with the sheet winches from the cockpit.. You can wind it on the drum later ,after you have gotten safely out into clear water with sea room. --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Carl Volkwein wrote:yes, you're rite, all the rubber rafts I guided were going down-stream, the way we moved any other direction was to "back ferry" and that involved pointing the bow at what you wanted to miss, then back paddleing. Carl, from W.V. > > > > seeratlas wrote: ok, > now i'm going to qualify what i'm about to say by telling you none of > this is theory, none of this is armchair pondering, its all based on > what i've physically seen, we're talking empirical evidence here. > > "IF" you're going to sail, there is going to come a time when you need > to go from where you are, to somewhere pretty much dead into the wind, > and you need to do it RIGHT NOW!!!!. AND, more than likely, dead into > the wind is going to be dead into a mean piece of sea. No sculling, no > tacking, no waiving down a passing powerboat...you're going to be on > your own, and at that moment, if you CAN'T go dead into the wind, in a > seaway, you are going to tear the hell out of your boat, if not lose > it completely, and maybe worse. > > Now my lifetime of sailing has led me to conclude that there are two > ways of designing/building a boat. You can design/build for halcyon > days, 14knot breezes from the stern quarter, and calm-softly rolling > seas..which may very well end up 60 percent of your life's > sailing...If your a prototypical fair weather sailor (and nothing > wrong with that) then this works fine..... > > OR, you can design for that hopefully rare, life-threatening moment, > that some sailors will never see, with horrifically steep seas, wind > dead on the nose, and something REALLY REALLY BAD dead astern.... > > take your pick. > > two things to remember, there are a LOT more 'bad things" to hit: > 1. near the shore, > 2. In the harbor > 3. in and around the docks > > than there are in the middle of the deep blue.... > > I've seen somewhere around 15-20 yachts lost within 100 yards of > shore, when the wind veered to the nose, the sea came up, and they > couldn't power off anchor. > > Just remember, when giving advice to less experienced sailors, realize > that to the extent they actually take your advice.....well...make sure > its good advice. > > seer > > > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "kendall" wrote: > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Michael Casling wrote: > > > > > > When we had a mini tornado come through the fleet during a regatta a > > few years ago, the only boats that could go to windward were the ones > > with diesels. > > > The steep waves close together, made it next to impossible for any > > of the boats with OBMs to go anywhere, except where the wind blew them. > > > For some that meant straight at a floating bridge that was about one > > mile away. > > > The OBMs on a small boat can be a lot less hassle than a diesel, but > > at times they can be useless. > > > I have one of each. > > > > > > Michael > > > > It's times like that where you don't fight the wind and instead work > > with it to move if not where you want to go, at least away from where > > you don't. > > > > Ken. > > What about a weed-eater whith a prop on it? > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats- unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > --------------------------------- > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > > Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > > --------------------------------- > > > > > > --------------------------------- > Blab-away for as little as 1¢/min. Make PC-to-Phone Calls using Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com --------------------------------- YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. --------------------------------- --------------------------------- Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. PC-to-Phone calls for ridiculously low rates. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]| 10872|10872|2006-04-19 12:34:46|SHANE ROTHWELL|Selfsteering|Gentlemen, I'm presently looking at a steel hull that although not a Brentboat, may have potential. However, I am rather stuck on the issue of self steering, which I consider of absolute importance and has become a hinge point for me. Your ideas and comments on this issue would be very mucy appreciated. PROBLEM: As mentioned, now looking at a steel hull that needs to be finnished off, a pretty looking thing in a traditional sence, it has a comperably small transverse transom with lots of overhang aft & of course the result is that the skeg hung rudder us up under the counter. I had a similar boat, a Roberts Norfolk '43, that inspite of the stupidity of being built in glass (and the greater stupidity of me buying glass), sailed beautifully. I had an Aries wind vane that I rebuilt (lots of work!) & set up (lots more work) which also worked beautifully. Hydraulic steering (lots of work to rebuild) & all the rest. really nice but very very complex and generally a pain in the ass with lots of potential for breakage & breakdown. Did I mention lots and lots of work & money & time & hasstle. Did I mention the additional stuffing box on the rudder stock..... but she sailed really beautifully, ballanced, sweet, a thing of beauty.....but a majorly expensive, very dellicate pain in the ass. However, I keep hearing that Brentboats sail really well as well and the new mantra is "less boatbuilding, more sailing". They are also not noted for being particularly easy to break which I find very appealing. As I see it, the crux of it is the self steering. With a large overhang aft (pretty but perhaps not so functional) and the rudder tucked up under the transom its considerably more difficult and expensive to set up self steering. At least that's the way it looks to me. Maybe I've missed something, but the only ways that I can think of for self steering with this kind of configuration is either: a> Servopendulium. Expensive & complex & a pain to operate b> Say's Rig. Not cheap, but copyable but that involves a lot and there is also the consideration of lots of gear hanging in the water just waiting to get pranged, banged & mangled. not to mention the drag with lots of pipe under water c> Sailomat which I'm not very familiar with but from what I understand are about $8,000, not easily copyable = forget it With a Brentboat you have a transom hung rudder mounted on a skeg (strong!)& a simple windvane system that I can probably put together in a couple of days that is cheap, relyable & I can easily fix myself. Sure, it comes down to time & cost. I can probably pick this hull up for a reasonable cost & save time & $$ in putting together the hull, but if I can't set it up and run her without major hasstles & expense then what's it's value? Can anyone think of any way of arranging self steering for this configuration that does not involve unneccessary complexity, dangling bits of exquipment, rediculous cost, time, work and a general pain in the rear. If I can't come up with a simple solution to this, then, despite how cheap, or how pretty it might be, in spite of how well it's put together, the easiest, cheapest & most logical solution is to walk away. Any comments lads? How many hours does it take to put a 36' brentboat together with all the schedule welding & grinding done but with none of the detailing done? Thanks, Shane __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com| 10873|10866|2006-04-19 14:29:11|Charles Sollitt|Re: Victoria Swap Meet, thrown turnbuckle|Mickeyloaf, If the thrown turnbuckle doesn't dent your new spar, you'll recover. _____ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]| 10874|10872|2006-04-19 15:27:51|jericoera|Re: Selfsteering|Brent has plans on self steering. A good book I am enjoying right now is The windvane self steering handbook by bill morris and if you go to www.faymarine.com, there is an atrticle and I think free plans for woodstoves for boats and windvanes. Good luck! Carl M --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, SHANE ROTHWELL wrote: > > Gentlemen, > > I'm presently looking at a steel hull that although > not a Brentboat, may have potential. However, I am > rather stuck on the issue of self steering, which I > consider of absolute importance and has become a hinge > point for me. > > Your ideas and comments on this issue would be very > mucy appreciated. > > PROBLEM: > As mentioned, now looking at a steel hull that needs > to be finnished off, a pretty looking thing in a > traditional sence, it has a comperably small > transverse transom with lots of overhang aft & of > course the result is that the skeg hung rudder us up > under the counter. > > I had a similar boat, a Roberts Norfolk '43, that > inspite of the stupidity of being built in glass (and > the greater stupidity of me buying glass), sailed > beautifully. I had an Aries wind vane that I rebuilt > (lots of work!) & set up (lots more work) which also > worked beautifully. Hydraulic steering (lots of work > to rebuild) & all the rest. really nice but very very > complex and generally a pain in the ass with lots of > potential for breakage & breakdown. Did I mention lots > and lots of work & money & time & hasstle. Did I > mention the additional stuffing box on the rudder > stock..... but she sailed really beautifully, > ballanced, sweet, a thing of beauty.....but a majorly > expensive, very dellicate pain in the ass. > > However, I keep hearing that Brentboats sail really > well as well and the new mantra is "less boatbuilding, > more sailing". They are also not noted for being > particularly easy to break which I find very > appealing. > > As I see it, the crux of it is the self steering. With > a large overhang aft (pretty but perhaps not so > functional) and the rudder tucked up under the transom > its considerably more difficult and expensive to set > up self steering. At least that's the way it looks to > me. Maybe I've missed something, but the only ways > that I can think of for self steering with this kind > of configuration is either: > a> Servopendulium. Expensive & complex & a pain to > operate > b> Say's Rig. Not cheap, but copyable but that > involves a lot and there is also the consideration of > lots of gear hanging in the water just waiting to get > pranged, banged & mangled. not to mention the drag > with lots of pipe under water > c> Sailomat which I'm not very familiar with but from > what I understand are about $8,000, not easily > copyable = forget it > > With a Brentboat you have a transom hung rudder > mounted on a skeg (strong!)& a simple windvane system > that I can probably put together in a couple of days > that is cheap, relyable & I can easily fix myself. > > Sure, it comes down to time & cost. I can probably > pick this hull up for a reasonable cost & save time & > $$ in putting together the hull, but if I can't set it > up and run her without major hasstles & expense then > what's it's value? > > Can anyone think of any way of arranging self steering > for this configuration that does not involve > unneccessary complexity, dangling bits of exquipment, > rediculous cost, time, work and a general pain in the > rear. > > If I can't come up with a simple solution to this, > then, despite how cheap, or how pretty it might be, in > spite of how well it's put together, the easiest, > cheapest & most logical solution is to walk away. > > Any comments lads? > > How many hours does it take to put a 36' brentboat > together with all the schedule welding & grinding done > but with none of the detailing done? > > Thanks, > Shane > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > | 10875|10872|2006-04-19 15:42:12|brentswain38|Re: Selfsteering|You could always cut the existing transom off after putting a proper one just aft of the waterline inside, then put the skeg , etc where it belongs. This could mean a slightly shorter boom, but that could improve balance. Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, SHANE ROTHWELL wrote: > > Gentlemen, > > I'm presently looking at a steel hull that although > not a Brentboat, may have potential. However, I am > rather stuck on the issue of self steering, which I > consider of absolute importance and has become a hinge > point for me. > > Your ideas and comments on this issue would be very > mucy appreciated. > > PROBLEM: > As mentioned, now looking at a steel hull that needs > to be finnished off, a pretty looking thing in a > traditional sence, it has a comperably small > transverse transom with lots of overhang aft & of > course the result is that the skeg hung rudder us up > under the counter. > > I had a similar boat, a Roberts Norfolk '43, that > inspite of the stupidity of being built in glass (and > the greater stupidity of me buying glass), sailed > beautifully. I had an Aries wind vane that I rebuilt > (lots of work!) & set up (lots more work) which also > worked beautifully. Hydraulic steering (lots of work > to rebuild) & all the rest. really nice but very very > complex and generally a pain in the ass with lots of > potential for breakage & breakdown. Did I mention lots > and lots of work & money & time & hasstle. Did I > mention the additional stuffing box on the rudder > stock..... but she sailed really beautifully, > ballanced, sweet, a thing of beauty.....but a majorly > expensive, very dellicate pain in the ass. > > However, I keep hearing that Brentboats sail really > well as well and the new mantra is "less boatbuilding, > more sailing". They are also not noted for being > particularly easy to break which I find very > appealing. > > As I see it, the crux of it is the self steering. With > a large overhang aft (pretty but perhaps not so > functional) and the rudder tucked up under the transom > its considerably more difficult and expensive to set > up self steering. At least that's the way it looks to > me. Maybe I've missed something, but the only ways > that I can think of for self steering with this kind > of configuration is either: > a> Servopendulium. Expensive & complex & a pain to > operate > b> Say's Rig. Not cheap, but copyable but that > involves a lot and there is also the consideration of > lots of gear hanging in the water just waiting to get > pranged, banged & mangled. not to mention the drag > with lots of pipe under water > c> Sailomat which I'm not very familiar with but from > what I understand are about $8,000, not easily > copyable = forget it > > With a Brentboat you have a transom hung rudder > mounted on a skeg (strong!)& a simple windvane system > that I can probably put together in a couple of days > that is cheap, relyable & I can easily fix myself. > > Sure, it comes down to time & cost. I can probably > pick this hull up for a reasonable cost & save time & > $$ in putting together the hull, but if I can't set it > up and run her without major hasstles & expense then > what's it's value? > > Can anyone think of any way of arranging self steering > for this configuration that does not involve > unneccessary complexity, dangling bits of exquipment, > rediculous cost, time, work and a general pain in the > rear. > > If I can't come up with a simple solution to this, > then, despite how cheap, or how pretty it might be, in > spite of how well it's put together, the easiest, > cheapest & most logical solution is to walk away. > > Any comments lads? > > How many hours does it take to put a 36' brentboat > together with all the schedule welding & grinding done > but with none of the detailing done? > > Thanks, > Shane > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > | 10876|1131|2006-04-19 15:46:17|brentswain38|Re: Dry exhaust|If you wrap a dry exhuast in fibreglass house insulation, then wrap it in foil, then three inch wide muffler tape, then coat it in silicone caulking, there is no heat issue. I can motor for days in the tropics and the ouside of my exhuast pipe feels cool to the touch. Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Gary" wrote: > > Brent: A bit of a re-visit to this topic. As I explained to you I am > having trouble with my salt water intake for exhaust cooling. I lose > the prime after healing when under sail and the pump will not pull up > sea water forcing a re-prime. Anyone else out there using dry exhaust > and how have you done it paricularly the heat issue. Anything new > Brent from your previous advice? > > Thanks... Gary > | 10877|10863|2006-04-19 15:54:53|brentswain38|Re: Steel Tahiti Ketch For Sale $10000 CDN or b/o|Andy Deering has a 36 somewhere up in that neck of the woods. I once built a 36 for a chef named Greg from that neck of the woods. Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Aaron Williams wrote: > > Carl > Are there any BS boats in Homer? > Aaron in Kenai > > Carl Nostrand wrote: > Hello from Alaska, > > Please send me the profile of your Tahiti. I'm headed east soon. > > Thanks, > > Carl > On Apr 18, 2006, at 1:47 PM, Derrick wrote: > > > Hello All, > > I have found myself in a position where I have to sell my Tahiti. I > > purchased it last year and sailed/motored it 450 nmiles home to start > > the rebuild. I was just transferred to Vancouver and the boat has been > > left in Ontario. > > As I said, it is steel. It is not a Tahitiana as some might think, > > rather a Tahiti pure and true. It has a 20hp Sabb diesel with variable > > pitch prop. This is a project boat, and the price reflects that. If > > anyone is interested, I have pictures that I can email. > > Thanks for the interest, > > Derrick > > > > > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats- unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > SPONSORED LINKS > British columbia canada Vancouver island Yacht > > --------------------------------- > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > > Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > > --------------------------------- > > > > > > --------------------------------- > How low will we go? Check out Yahoo! Messenger's low PC-to-Phone call rates. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > | 10878|10863|2006-04-19 23:16:36|Aaron Williams|Re: Steel Tahiti Ketch For Sale $10000 CDN or b/o|I was going over to Seward if I get time and look for them over there. brentswain38 wrote: Andy Deering has a 36 somewhere up in that neck of the woods. I once built a 36 for a chef named Greg from that neck of the woods. Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Aaron Williams wrote: > > Carl > Are there any BS boats in Homer? > Aaron in Kenai > > Carl Nostrand wrote: > Hello from Alaska, > > Please send me the profile of your Tahiti. I'm headed east soon. > > Thanks, > > Carl > On Apr 18, 2006, at 1:47 PM, Derrick wrote: > > > Hello All, > > I have found myself in a position where I have to sell my Tahiti. I > > purchased it last year and sailed/motored it 450 nmiles home to start > > the rebuild. I was just transferred to Vancouver and the boat has been > > left in Ontario. > > As I said, it is steel. It is not a Tahitiana as some might think, > > rather a Tahiti pure and true. It has a 20hp Sabb diesel with variable > > pitch prop. This is a project boat, and the price reflects that. If > > anyone is interested, I have pictures that I can email. > > Thanks for the interest, > > Derrick > > > > > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats- unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > SPONSORED LINKS > British columbia canada Vancouver island Yacht > > --------------------------------- > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > > Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > > --------------------------------- > > > > > > --------------------------------- > How low will we go? Check out Yahoo! Messenger's low PC-to-Phone call rates. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com --------------------------------- YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. --------------------------------- --------------------------------- Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1¢/min. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]| 10879|10879|2006-04-20 06:45:14|edward_stoneuk|Bonding polycarbonate|Does anyone have experience in bonding polycarbonate (Lexan, Makrolon)? I am thinking of making hatch covers using polycarbonate top and sides bonded together with two stainless straps bolted across the top to carry the hinge fixings and catches. Regards, Ted| 10880|10879|2006-04-20 18:10:48|colin edley|Re: Bonding polycarbonate|if you want to make polycarbonate hatch lids have you considered folding the sides using heat or deforming a sheet over a former? You'd only have to bond or bolt the corners with the former and the latter would be a single unit. Most polycarbonate themoplastics are very easy to mould (mold if in the us) in a simple oven or with an electric element with a slot mask that only heats along the axis you want to bend. I'd be wary of using solvent cements as they cause local embrittlement around the welded area which is the last thing you want in a hatch seam when the rain is going sideways and it splits. Hope this helps, I have over fifteen years experience of maintaining polycarbonate injection moulding machinery so i hope i've got half an idea by now! cheers colin edley edward_stoneuk wrote: Does anyone have experience in bonding polycarbonate (Lexan, Makrolon)? I am thinking of making hatch covers using polycarbonate top and sides bonded together with two stainless straps bolted across the top to carry the hinge fixings and catches. Regards, Ted To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com --------------------------------- YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. --------------------------------- --------------------------------- 24 FIFA World Cup tickets to be won with Yahoo! Mail. Learn more [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]| 10881|10881|2006-04-21 02:16:39|chat_tonight119|Post your free profile here for dating online single who is really |Post your free profile here for dating online single who is really right for you now. http://www.geocities.com/dateonlinesingle| 10882|10879|2006-04-21 03:50:30|edward_stoneuk|Re: Bonding and bending polycarbonate|Thanks Colin, I had thought of heating and bending, but was wary of the heat control problems. Also, looking at the literature it mentions using mould cloth, I assume to avoid marking the surface. Do you know what mould cloth is and where one can buy it in the UK? I have some curved ports that I will probably have to heat and bend the polycabonate or acrylic for. Regards, Ted| 10883|10883|2006-04-21 11:37:53|jericoera|Boat parts, ballst, sale--BARGAIN!!!|Boat parts, ballast, sale, BARGAIN!!! *********************************** I am in the process of selling my home and due to the downsizing am selling a wack of boat stuff. 5000 pounds lead ingots 4 stainless steel hatch coamings 2 stainless hatch lids (professionally tig welded) 8 heavy duty 8 " factory 316 stainless mooring cleats (fancy embossed) 4 316 factor stainless line cleats 1 316 ss diesel deck fill 1 316 ss water fill 4 heavy duty factory 316ss Skene chocks 8 316 ss factory hawse pipes 1 316 ss woodstove for 36 Swain boat (see photos on this website) 1 316 ss deck iron for woodstove 6 316 ss bollards 2 pieces of 1/2" plexi roughy 2 feet by 3 feet a bin full of stainless pipe and enough 1/8" ss plate to in fill the hathces if you don't want plexi $6000 first taker. lead is already on Vancouver Island (604)485-0339 Carl M. p.s. I have a heavy duty double doored Fisher woodstove $200 plus a brand new mini fridge I paid $400+ for that i will sell for $250 Thanks| 10884|10879|2006-04-21 12:51:54|colin edley|Re: Bonding and bending polycarbonate|mold cloth is normally a fine fibreglass felt, there are also mold release agents, eg waxes and sprays. your polycarb sheet supplier should be able to help you out, as far as temp goes it obviousley varies dependant on the material you are using. I've made parts using my oven at home (when the wife was out of course!) If you wanted to make a one off heated chamber I'd just use the thermocouple, heating element and rheostat out of an old cooker and make an insulated cabinet to suit, I've seen it done just using concrete paving slabs and cavity fibreglass insulation. cheers colin edley edward_stoneuk wrote: Thanks Colin, I had thought of heating and bending, but was wary of the heat control problems. Also, looking at the literature it mentions using mould cloth, I assume to avoid marking the surface. Do you know what mould cloth is and where one can buy it in the UK? I have some curved ports that I will probably have to heat and bend the polycabonate or acrylic for. Regards, Ted To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com --------------------------------- YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. --------------------------------- --------------------------------- To help you stay safe and secure online, we've developed the all new Yahoo! Security Centre. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]| 10885|10879|2006-04-21 16:31:09|Daniel Starsong|Re: Bonding polycarbonate|Does anyone have a copy of Brent Swain's book they want to sell. Daniel Starsong --- edward_stoneuk wrote: > Does anyone have experience in bonding polycarbonate > (Lexan, Makrolon)? > I am thinking of making hatch covers using > polycarbonate top and sides > bonded together with two stainless straps bolted > across the top to > carry the hinge fixings and catches. > Regards, > Ted > > > > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com| 10886|10768|2006-04-21 18:47:50|seeratlas|Re: Novel drive: was, Where did everyone go ?|Fair enough Brent, but as you point out, not a lot of sailors could pull that off. When you're talking about new or inexperienced sailors, well even more so. A few years ago, and perhaps some of you will remember, at the wooden boat show over in I believe Port Townsend, the wind veered around pretty darned hard in the mid to late afternoon and a number of vessels had been anchored out in what 'had' been the 'lee' to make room in the harbor for the boats being displayed. The combination of the wind and waves now hit the anchored boats dead on the nose, driving pretty much all of them slowly backwards towards the shore. It was with some fascination that I sat (in an enclosed upstairs bar mind you :) and watched a motor launch sweep back and forth trying to get a line on each of the unattended boats and pull them out of jeopardy. I recall one fellow in particular who apparently woken from a sound sleep, was struggling at the bow trying to 1. stay on the boat as the vertical rise and fall was substantial, and 2. somehow get the anchor up .. standing was impossible. for about 20 minutes he fought for his boat. I can't seem to recall what ultimately happened, but it seems to me he eventually cut the anchor loose and a launch dragged him out into deeper water. I think most sailors would have been very hard pressed indeed to have sailed off under those conditions. The vertical motion of the deck near the bow was extreme. The size, frequency and impact of the waves would have made recovering from a tack highly questionable, broaching would have been more likely i think, further, given the modern tendency for larger headsails, smaller mains, I'm not sure he'd have had the power to move forward, but that is all conjecture as the iron horsed and ably crewed motorlaunch saved most of the boats I saw that day. seer --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "brentswain38" wrote: > > On my last boat I had a 4 hp diesel. It couldn't power into much, and > I couldn't sail into much with just the mainsail sheeted in hard, but > combine the two and I could motorsail into anything. > I'm surprised how few people learn how to sail an anchor out.It's > scary. > To sail an anchor out, you hoist the mainsail and sheet her in hard. > Then you go to the bow and start cranking the anchor up. The boat > tacks from side to side . When it goes on one tack, the anchor rode > goes slack, and you crank in the slack . When the boat fetches up > against the rode before going on the other tack , you stop cranking > and wait for the slack when it is on the other tack. Then you crank > some more until it fetches up , wait for the tack , then start > cranking in the slack.When the scope looks short enough to break the > anchor out, you wait for her to be on the tack you want , then crank > like hell to make sure it breaks the anchor out while on that tack. > Leaving the engine idling at the time is a good idea. > When you have to get out of a tight hole , and don't have time to > run back to the cockpit before she heads for the rocks, you lead your > anchor rode aft before you start cranking it in. Then you crank your > anchor rode in with the sheet winches from the cockpit.. You can wind > it on the drum later ,after you have gotten safely out into clear > water with sea room. > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Carl Volkwein > wrote: > > > > > > > > seeratlas wrote: ok, > > now i'm going to qualify what i'm about to say by telling you none > of > > this is theory, none of this is armchair pondering, its all based on > > what i've physically seen, we're talking empirical evidence here. > > > > "IF" you're going to sail, there is going to come a time when you > need > > to go from where you are, to somewhere pretty much dead into the > wind, > > and you need to do it RIGHT NOW!!!!. AND, more than likely, dead > into > > the wind is going to be dead into a mean piece of sea. No sculling, > no > > tacking, no waiving down a passing powerboat...you're going to be on > > your own, and at that moment, if you CAN'T go dead into the wind, > in a > > seaway, you are going to tear the hell out of your boat, if not lose > > it completely, and maybe worse. > > > > Now my lifetime of sailing has led me to conclude that there are two > > ways of designing/building a boat. You can design/build for halcyon > > days, 14knot breezes from the stern quarter, and calm-softly rolling > > seas..which may very well end up 60 percent of your life's > > sailing...If your a prototypical fair weather sailor (and nothing > > wrong with that) then this works fine..... > > > > OR, you can design for that hopefully rare, life-threatening > moment, > > that some sailors will never see, with horrifically steep seas, wind > > dead on the nose, and something REALLY REALLY BAD dead astern.... > > > > take your pick. > > > > two things to remember, there are a LOT more 'bad things" to hit: > > 1. near the shore, > > 2. In the harbor > > 3. in and around the docks > > > > than there are in the middle of the deep blue.... > > > > I've seen somewhere around 15-20 yachts lost within 100 yards of > > shore, when the wind veered to the nose, the sea came up, and they > > couldn't power off anchor. > > > > Just remember, when giving advice to less experienced sailors, > realize > > that to the extent they actually take your advice.....well...make > sure > > its good advice. > > > > seer > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "kendall" wrote: > > > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Michael Casling > wrote: > > > > > > > > When we had a mini tornado come through the fleet during a > regatta a > > > few years ago, the only boats that could go to windward were the > ones > > > with diesels. > > > > The steep waves close together, made it next to impossible for > any > > > of the boats with OBMs to go anywhere, except where the wind blew > them. > > > > For some that meant straight at a floating bridge that was > about one > > > mile away. > > > > The OBMs on a small boat can be a lot less hassle than a > diesel, but > > > at times they can be useless. > > > > I have one of each. > > > > > > > > Michael > > > > > > It's times like that where you don't fight the wind and instead > work > > > with it to move if not where you want to go, at least away from > where > > > you don't. > > > > > > Ken. > > > What about a weed-eater whith a prop on it? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats- > unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > > > > > Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web. > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > Service. > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > Blab-away for as little as 1¢/min. Make PC-to-Phone Calls using > Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > | 10887|1131|2006-04-21 18:49:28|seeratlas|Re: Dry exhaust|don't forget the "dry martini" :) seer --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "mickeyolaf" wrote: > > > A dry boat, a dry sense of humour, dry shorts, and a dry exhaust > makes for a happy sailor. > > > boats@yahoogroups.com, "brentswain38" wrote: > > > > It's amazing how deep you have to go before an intake stops > sucking > > air. I had to run my head intake much lower to stop it from > sucking air > > on one tack. One client had to run an intake nearly to the > centreline > > to avoid sucking air, which it looks like what I will have to do > for my > > watermaker intake. > > This is just the first of many problems you will have with > watercooled > > exhuast before you give up such a goofy idea and go for a dry > exhuast. > > One diesel mechanic said "If everyone went for keel cooling and > dry > > exhuast we'd all be out of work." That is why some mechanics > insist > > that a yacht must have a wet exhuast, so that they will have a lot > of > > repair work to keep them busy. Commercial guys just laugh at > yachties > > for being such suckers. > > A couple I met in Tonga on my last trip there went thru two > engines > > since 1998 , both corroded out by wet exhuasts. They are putting a > dry > > exhuast in this time. > > Brent > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Gary" wrote: > > > > > > Brent: A bit of a re-visit to this topic. As I explained to > you I > > am > > > having trouble with my salt water intake for exhaust cooling. I > lose > > > the prime after healing when under sail and the pump will not > pull up > > > sea water forcing a re-prime. Anyone else out there using dry > > exhaust > > > and how have you done it paricularly the heat issue. Anything > new > > > Brent from your previous advice? > > > > > > Thanks... Gary > > > > > > | 10888|1131|2006-04-21 20:00:33|cirejay|Re: Dry exhaust|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "seeratlas" wrote: > > don't forget the "dry martini" :) I'll drink to that! eric S/V Nebaras| 10889|10768|2006-04-21 20:12:05|brentswain38|Re: Novel drive: was, Where did everyone go ?|It's much easier than the alternatives. If you do the combination of leading the anchor rode back to the cockpit and cleating it there,before uncleating it from the bow, then go foreward and uncleat it and using both the mainsail and engine, crank in the rode with a sheet winch while sitting down and steering, you have things much more under control. You point much closer to the wind with the mainsail sheeted in hard and motoring than you ever would imagine . Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "seeratlas" wrote: > > Fair enough Brent, but as you point out, not a lot of sailors could > pull that off. When you're talking about new or inexperienced sailors, > well even more so. A few years ago, and perhaps some of you will > remember, at the wooden boat show over in I believe Port Townsend, the > wind veered around pretty darned hard in the mid to late afternoon and > a number of vessels had been anchored out in what 'had' been the 'lee' > to make room in the harbor for the boats being displayed. > > The combination of the wind and waves now hit the anchored boats dead > on the nose, driving pretty much all of them slowly backwards towards > the shore. It was with some fascination that I sat (in an enclosed > upstairs bar mind you :) and watched a motor launch sweep back and > forth trying to get a line on each of the unattended boats and pull > them out of jeopardy. I recall one fellow in particular who > apparently woken from a sound sleep, was struggling at the bow trying > to 1. stay on the boat as the vertical rise and fall was substantial, > and 2. somehow get the anchor up .. standing was impossible. > > for about 20 minutes he fought for his boat. I can't seem to recall > what ultimately happened, but it seems to me he eventually cut the > anchor loose and a launch dragged him out into deeper water. > > I think most sailors would have been very hard pressed indeed to have > sailed off under those conditions. The vertical motion of the deck > near the bow was extreme. The size, frequency and impact of the waves > would have made recovering from a tack highly questionable, broaching > would have been more likely i think, further, given the modern > tendency for larger headsails, smaller mains, I'm not sure he'd have > had the power to move forward, but that is all conjecture as the iron > horsed and ably crewed motorlaunch saved most of the boats I saw that day. > > seer > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "brentswain38" > wrote: > > > > On my last boat I had a 4 hp diesel. It couldn't power into much, and > > I couldn't sail into much with just the mainsail sheeted in hard, but > > combine the two and I could motorsail into anything. > > I'm surprised how few people learn how to sail an anchor out.It's > > scary. > > To sail an anchor out, you hoist the mainsail and sheet her in hard. > > Then you go to the bow and start cranking the anchor up. The boat > > tacks from side to side . When it goes on one tack, the anchor rode > > goes slack, and you crank in the slack . When the boat fetches up > > against the rode before going on the other tack , you stop cranking > > and wait for the slack when it is on the other tack. Then you crank > > some more until it fetches up , wait for the tack , then start > > cranking in the slack.When the scope looks short enough to break the > > anchor out, you wait for her to be on the tack you want , then crank > > like hell to make sure it breaks the anchor out while on that tack. > > Leaving the engine idling at the time is a good idea. > > When you have to get out of a tight hole , and don't have time to > > run back to the cockpit before she heads for the rocks, you lead your > > anchor rode aft before you start cranking it in. Then you crank your > > anchor rode in with the sheet winches from the cockpit.. You can wind > > it on the drum later ,after you have gotten safely out into clear > > water with sea room. > > > > > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Carl Volkwein > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > seeratlas wrote: ok, > > > now i'm going to qualify what i'm about to say by telling you none > > of > > > this is theory, none of this is armchair pondering, its all based on > > > what i've physically seen, we're talking empirical evidence here. > > > > > > "IF" you're going to sail, there is going to come a time when you > > need > > > to go from where you are, to somewhere pretty much dead into the > > wind, > > > and you need to do it RIGHT NOW!!!!. AND, more than likely, dead > > into > > > the wind is going to be dead into a mean piece of sea. No sculling, > > no > > > tacking, no waiving down a passing powerboat...you're going to be on > > > your own, and at that moment, if you CAN'T go dead into the wind, > > in a > > > seaway, you are going to tear the hell out of your boat, if not lose > > > it completely, and maybe worse. > > > > > > Now my lifetime of sailing has led me to conclude that there are two > > > ways of designing/building a boat. You can design/build for halcyon > > > days, 14knot breezes from the stern quarter, and calm-softly rolling > > > seas..which may very well end up 60 percent of your life's > > > sailing...If your a prototypical fair weather sailor (and nothing > > > wrong with that) then this works fine..... > > > > > > OR, you can design for that hopefully rare, life-threatening > > moment, > > > that some sailors will never see, with horrifically steep seas, wind > > > dead on the nose, and something REALLY REALLY BAD dead astern.... > > > > > > take your pick. > > > > > > two things to remember, there are a LOT more 'bad things" to hit: > > > 1. near the shore, > > > 2. In the harbor > > > 3. in and around the docks > > > > > > than there are in the middle of the deep blue.... > > > > > > I've seen somewhere around 15-20 yachts lost within 100 yards of > > > shore, when the wind veered to the nose, the sea came up, and they > > > couldn't power off anchor. > > > > > > Just remember, when giving advice to less experienced sailors, > > realize > > > that to the extent they actually take your advice.....well...make > > sure > > > its good advice. > > > > > > seer > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "kendall" wrote: > > > > > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Michael Casling > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > When we had a mini tornado come through the fleet during a > > regatta a > > > > few years ago, the only boats that could go to windward were the > > ones > > > > with diesels. > > > > > The steep waves close together, made it next to impossible for > > any > > > > of the boats with OBMs to go anywhere, except where the wind blew > > them. > > > > > For some that meant straight at a floating bridge that was > > about one > > > > mile away. > > > > > The OBMs on a small boat can be a lot less hassle than a > > diesel, but > > > > at times they can be useless. > > > > > I have one of each. > > > > > > > > > > Michael > > > > > > > > It's times like that where you don't fight the wind and instead > > work > > > > with it to move if not where you want to go, at least away from > > where > > > > you don't. > > > > > > > > Ken. > > > > What about a weed-eater whith a prop on it? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats- > > unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > > > > > > > > Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web. > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > > Service. > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > > Blab-away for as little as 1¢/min. Make PC-to-Phone Calls using > > Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > | 10890|10879|2006-04-21 20:13:44|brentswain38|Re: Bonding polycarbonate|I have lots of them. Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Daniel Starsong wrote: > > Does anyone have a copy of Brent Swain's book they > want to sell. > Daniel Starsong > > --- edward_stoneuk wrote: > > > Does anyone have experience in bonding polycarbonate > > (Lexan, Makrolon)? > > I am thinking of making hatch covers using > > polycarbonate top and sides > > bonded together with two stainless straps bolted > > across the top to > > carry the hinge fixings and catches. > > Regards, > > Ted > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > | 10891|9840|2006-04-22 00:33:21|tazmannusa|BS 26|Hello All I am kinda curiouse What happend with admi and old ben mass producing the BS 26? As far as mine I recut about 32 inches of the chine and got the hook out, she had about a 1/2" downward hook about 3/4 the way back. probably wouldnt have hurt anything but it was enough to bug me. I posted a picture of it in origamiboats2 did both sides the same. Next is all the little tediouse things like chain plates bow rollers ext. Im going to get everything I can done on the top sides before the keel and skeg go on. One thing Thats kinda funny is allmost everyone that see's this boat the first time think I built it from a kit and when I tell them no just flat plates they look at me like Im full of it, mabee I am but it didnt come from a kit. Tom| 10892|10879|2006-04-22 02:15:41|Earl|Re: Bonding polycarbonate|I would be interested in the price and address. Brent Regards, Earl ----- Original Message ----- From: "brentswain38" To: Sent: Friday, April 21, 2006 8:12 PM Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Bonding polycarbonate > I have lots of them. > Brent > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Daniel Starsong > wrote: > > > > Does anyone have a copy of Brent Swain's book they > > want to sell. > > Daniel Starsong > > > > --- edward_stoneuk wrote: > > > > > Does anyone have experience in bonding polycarbonate > > > (Lexan, Makrolon)? > > > I am thinking of making hatch covers using > > > polycarbonate top and sides > > > bonded together with two stainless straps bolted > > > across the top to > > > carry the hinge fixings and catches. > > > Regards, > > > Ted > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > > Do You Yahoo!? > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > > http://mail.yahoo.com > > > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.4.4/320 - Release Date: 4/20/2006 > > | 10893|10768|2006-04-22 12:08:42|seeratlas|Re: Novel drive: was, Where did everyone go ?|Hmmm, now you have me thinking :) I'm going to try this. Sounds a LOT safer, and I'm all about staying on and in the boat when weather comes calling :) seer -- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "brentswain38" wrote: > > It's much easier than the alternatives. If you do the combination of > leading the anchor rode back to the cockpit and cleating it > there,before uncleating it from the bow, then go foreward and uncleat > it and using both the > mainsail and engine, crank in the rode with a sheet winch while > sitting down and steering, you have things much more under control. > You point much closer to the wind with the mainsail sheeted in hard > and motoring than you ever would imagine . > Brent > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "seeratlas" > wrote: > > > > Fair enough Brent, but as you point out, not a lot of sailors could > > pull that off. When you're talking about new or inexperienced > sailors, > > well even more so. A few years ago, and perhaps some of you will > > remember, at the wooden boat show over in I believe Port Townsend, > the > > wind veered around pretty darned hard in the mid to late afternoon > and > > a number of vessels had been anchored out in what 'had' been > the 'lee' > > to make room in the harbor for the boats being displayed. > > > > The combination of the wind and waves now hit the anchored boats > dead > > on the nose, driving pretty much all of them slowly backwards > towards > > the shore. It was with some fascination that I sat (in an enclosed > > upstairs bar mind you :) and watched a motor launch sweep back and > > forth trying to get a line on each of the unattended boats and pull > > them out of jeopardy. I recall one fellow in particular who > > apparently woken from a sound sleep, was struggling at the bow > trying > > to 1. stay on the boat as the vertical rise and fall was > substantial, > > and 2. somehow get the anchor up .. standing was impossible. > > > > for about 20 minutes he fought for his boat. I can't seem to recall > > what ultimately happened, but it seems to me he eventually cut the > > anchor loose and a launch dragged him out into deeper water. > > > > I think most sailors would have been very hard pressed indeed to > have > > sailed off under those conditions. The vertical motion of the deck > > near the bow was extreme. The size, frequency and impact of the > waves > > would have made recovering from a tack highly questionable, > broaching > > would have been more likely i think, further, given the modern > > tendency for larger headsails, smaller mains, I'm not sure he'd have > > had the power to move forward, but that is all conjecture as the > iron > > horsed and ably crewed motorlaunch saved most of the boats I saw > that day. > > > > seer > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "brentswain38" > > wrote: > > > > > > On my last boat I had a 4 hp diesel. It couldn't power into much, > and > > > I couldn't sail into much with just the mainsail sheeted in hard, > but > > > combine the two and I could motorsail into anything. > > > I'm surprised how few people learn how to sail an anchor out.It's > > > scary. > > > To sail an anchor out, you hoist the mainsail and sheet her in > hard. > > > Then you go to the bow and start cranking the anchor up. The boat > > > tacks from side to side . When it goes on one tack, the anchor > rode > > > goes slack, and you crank in the slack . When the boat fetches up > > > against the rode before going on the other tack , you stop > cranking > > > and wait for the slack when it is on the other tack. Then you > crank > > > some more until it fetches up , wait for the tack , then start > > > cranking in the slack.When the scope looks short enough to break > the > > > anchor out, you wait for her to be on the tack you want , then > crank > > > like hell to make sure it breaks the anchor out while on that > tack. > > > Leaving the engine idling at the time is a good idea. > > > When you have to get out of a tight hole , and don't have time > to > > > run back to the cockpit before she heads for the rocks, you lead > your > > > anchor rode aft before you start cranking it in. Then you crank > your > > > anchor rode in with the sheet winches from the cockpit.. You can > wind > > > it on the drum later ,after you have gotten safely out into clear > > > water with sea room. > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Carl Volkwein > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > seeratlas wrote: ok, > > > > now i'm going to qualify what i'm about to say by telling you > none > > > of > > > > this is theory, none of this is armchair pondering, its all > based on > > > > what i've physically seen, we're talking empirical evidence > here. > > > > > > > > "IF" you're going to sail, there is going to come a time when > you > > > need > > > > to go from where you are, to somewhere pretty much dead into > the > > > wind, > > > > and you need to do it RIGHT NOW!!!!. AND, more than likely, > dead > > > into > > > > the wind is going to be dead into a mean piece of sea. No > sculling, > > > no > > > > tacking, no waiving down a passing powerboat...you're going to > be on > > > > your own, and at that moment, if you CAN'T go dead into the > wind, > > > in a > > > > seaway, you are going to tear the hell out of your boat, if not > lose > > > > it completely, and maybe worse. > > > > > > > > Now my lifetime of sailing has led me to conclude that there > are two > > > > ways of designing/building a boat. You can design/build for > halcyon > > > > days, 14knot breezes from the stern quarter, and calm-softly > rolling > > > > seas..which may very well end up 60 percent of your life's > > > > sailing...If your a prototypical fair weather sailor (and > nothing > > > > wrong with that) then this works fine..... > > > > > > > > OR, you can design for that hopefully rare, life-threatening > > > moment, > > > > that some sailors will never see, with horrifically steep seas, > wind > > > > dead on the nose, and something REALLY REALLY BAD dead > astern.... > > > > > > > > take your pick. > > > > > > > > two things to remember, there are a LOT more 'bad things" to > hit: > > > > 1. near the shore, > > > > 2. In the harbor > > > > 3. in and around the docks > > > > > > > > than there are in the middle of the deep blue.... > > > > > > > > I've seen somewhere around 15-20 yachts lost within 100 yards of > > > > shore, when the wind veered to the nose, the sea came up, and > they > > > > couldn't power off anchor. > > > > > > > > Just remember, when giving advice to less experienced sailors, > > > realize > > > > that to the extent they actually take your > advice.....well...make > > > sure > > > > its good advice. > > > > > > > > seer > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "kendall" > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Michael Casling > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > When we had a mini tornado come through the fleet during a > > > regatta a > > > > > few years ago, the only boats that could go to windward were > the > > > ones > > > > > with diesels. > > > > > > The steep waves close together, made it next to impossible > for > > > any > > > > > of the boats with OBMs to go anywhere, except where the wind > blew > > > them. > > > > > > For some that meant straight at a floating bridge that was > > > about one > > > > > mile away. > > > > > > The OBMs on a small boat can be a lot less hassle than a > > > diesel, but > > > > > at times they can be useless. > > > > > > I have one of each. > > > > > > > > > > > > Michael > > > > > > > > > > It's times like that where you don't fight the wind and > instead > > > work > > > > > with it to move if not where you want to go, at least away > from > > > where > > > > > you don't. > > > > > > > > > > Ken. > > > > > What about a weed-eater whith a prop on it? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats- > > > unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > > > > > > > > > > > Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web. > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > > > Service. > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > > > Blab-away for as little as 1¢/min. Make PC-to-Phone Calls > using > > > Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > | 10894|10768|2006-04-22 14:11:12|brentswain38|Re: Novel drive: was, Where did everyone go ?|I'm amazed how many people have sailed for decades without ever having learned how to sail the anchor out.They are sometimes sailing on borrowed time ,as the Port Townsend incident shows Sailing off the anchor is something that should be practiced regularly , starting in moderate conditions , so you will know exactly how your boat responds in a given set of conditions. If you plan to sail, and have the room ,you should start getting underway by raising the main first , then hauling the anchor in.You should never put it off until you end up in the Port Towwnsend situation that you describe, before trying it for the fist time. Ditto hauling the anchor up from the cockpit. Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "brentswain38" wrote: > > It's much easier than the alternatives. If you do the combination of > leading the anchor rode back to the cockpit and cleating it > there,before uncleating it from the bow, then go foreward and uncleat > it and using both the > mainsail and engine, crank in the rode with a sheet winch while > sitting down and steering, you have things much more under control. > You point much closer to the wind with the mainsail sheeted in hard > and motoring than you ever would imagine . > Brent > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "seeratlas" > wrote: > > > > Fair enough Brent, but as you point out, not a lot of sailors could > > pull that off. When you're talking about new or inexperienced > sailors, > > well even more so. A few years ago, and perhaps some of you will > > remember, at the wooden boat show over in I believe Port Townsend, > the > > wind veered around pretty darned hard in the mid to late afternoon > and > > a number of vessels had been anchored out in what 'had' been > the 'lee' > > to make room in the harbor for the boats being displayed. > > > > The combination of the wind and waves now hit the anchored boats > dead > > on the nose, driving pretty much all of them slowly backwards > towards > > the shore. It was with some fascination that I sat (in an enclosed > > upstairs bar mind you :) and watched a motor launch sweep back and > > forth trying to get a line on each of the unattended boats and pull > > them out of jeopardy. I recall one fellow in particular who > > apparently woken from a sound sleep, was struggling at the bow > trying > > to 1. stay on the boat as the vertical rise and fall was > substantial, > > and 2. somehow get the anchor up .. standing was impossible. > > > > for about 20 minutes he fought for his boat. I can't seem to recall > > what ultimately happened, but it seems to me he eventually cut the > > anchor loose and a launch dragged him out into deeper water. > > > > I think most sailors would have been very hard pressed indeed to > have > > sailed off under those conditions. The vertical motion of the deck > > near the bow was extreme. The size, frequency and impact of the > waves > > would have made recovering from a tack highly questionable, > broaching > > would have been more likely i think, further, given the modern > > tendency for larger headsails, smaller mains, I'm not sure he'd have > > had the power to move forward, but that is all conjecture as the > iron > > horsed and ably crewed motorlaunch saved most of the boats I saw > that day. > > > > seer > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "brentswain38" > > wrote: > > > > > > On my last boat I had a 4 hp diesel. It couldn't power into much, > and > > > I couldn't sail into much with just the mainsail sheeted in hard, > but > > > combine the two and I could motorsail into anything. > > > I'm surprised how few people learn how to sail an anchor out.It's > > > scary. > > > To sail an anchor out, you hoist the mainsail and sheet her in > hard. > > > Then you go to the bow and start cranking the anchor up. The boat > > > tacks from side to side . When it goes on one tack, the anchor > rode > > > goes slack, and you crank in the slack . When the boat fetches up > > > against the rode before going on the other tack , you stop > cranking > > > and wait for the slack when it is on the other tack. Then you > crank > > > some more until it fetches up , wait for the tack , then start > > > cranking in the slack.When the scope looks short enough to break > the > > > anchor out, you wait for her to be on the tack you want , then > crank > > > like hell to make sure it breaks the anchor out while on that > tack. > > > Leaving the engine idling at the time is a good idea. > > > When you have to get out of a tight hole , and don't have time > to > > > run back to the cockpit before she heads for the rocks, you lead > your > > > anchor rode aft before you start cranking it in. Then you crank > your > > > anchor rode in with the sheet winches from the cockpit.. You can > wind > > > it on the drum later ,after you have gotten safely out into clear > > > water with sea room. > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Carl Volkwein > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > seeratlas wrote: ok, > > > > now i'm going to qualify what i'm about to say by telling you > none > > > of > > > > this is theory, none of this is armchair pondering, its all > based on > > > > what i've physically seen, we're talking empirical evidence > here. > > > > > > > > "IF" you're going to sail, there is going to come a time when > you > > > need > > > > to go from where you are, to somewhere pretty much dead into > the > > > wind, > > > > and you need to do it RIGHT NOW!!!!. AND, more than likely, > dead > > > into > > > > the wind is going to be dead into a mean piece of sea. No > sculling, > > > no > > > > tacking, no waiving down a passing powerboat...you're going to > be on > > > > your own, and at that moment, if you CAN'T go dead into the > wind, > > > in a > > > > seaway, you are going to tear the hell out of your boat, if not > lose > > > > it completely, and maybe worse. > > > > > > > > Now my lifetime of sailing has led me to conclude that there > are two > > > > ways of designing/building a boat. You can design/build for > halcyon > > > > days, 14knot breezes from the stern quarter, and calm-softly > rolling > > > > seas..which may very well end up 60 percent of your life's > > > > sailing...If your a prototypical fair weather sailor (and > nothing > > > > wrong with that) then this works fine..... > > > > > > > > OR, you can design for that hopefully rare, life- threatening > > > moment, > > > > that some sailors will never see, with horrifically steep seas, > wind > > > > dead on the nose, and something REALLY REALLY BAD dead > astern.... > > > > > > > > take your pick. > > > > > > > > two things to remember, there are a LOT more 'bad things" to > hit: > > > > 1. near the shore, > > > > 2. In the harbor > > > > 3. in and around the docks > > > > > > > > than there are in the middle of the deep blue.... > > > > > > > > I've seen somewhere around 15-20 yachts lost within 100 yards of > > > > shore, when the wind veered to the nose, the sea came up, and > they > > > > couldn't power off anchor. > > > > > > > > Just remember, when giving advice to less experienced sailors, > > > realize > > > > that to the extent they actually take your > advice.....well...make > > > sure > > > > its good advice. > > > > > > > > seer > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "kendall" > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Michael Casling > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > When we had a mini tornado come through the fleet during a > > > regatta a > > > > > few years ago, the only boats that could go to windward were > the > > > ones > > > > > with diesels. > > > > > > The steep waves close together, made it next to impossible > for > > > any > > > > > of the boats with OBMs to go anywhere, except where the wind > blew > > > them. > > > > > > For some that meant straight at a floating bridge that was > > > about one > > > > > mile away. > > > > > > The OBMs on a small boat can be a lot less hassle than a > > > diesel, but > > > > > at times they can be useless. > > > > > > I have one of each. > > > > > > > > > > > > Michael > > > > > > > > > > It's times like that where you don't fight the wind and > instead > > > work > > > > > with it to move if not where you want to go, at least away > from > > > where > > > > > you don't. > > > > > > > > > > Ken. > > > > > What about a weed-eater whith a prop on it? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats- > > > unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > > > > > > > > > > > Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web. > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > > > Service. > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > > > Blab-away for as little as 1¢/min. Make PC-to-Phone Calls > using > > > Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > | 10895|10768|2006-04-23 15:25:54|seeratlas|Re: Novel drive: was, Where did everyone go ?|Didn't mean to say I havn't sailed off an anchor before :) I have :) heheheh, Just never thought to try it in a really bad situation, mostly because my principal boat was a 54 ft. 26 ton sloop with a towering mast, an enormous main, a rather unusual semi-mid cockpit arrangement, 100 percent BIG chain rode, which 99 percent of the time I single-handed :). Perhaps because of all the foregoing, and an acute sense of anxiety over self preservation; LOL, I have 'so far' managed to NOT get myself into the "Port Townsend 'Situation'" (knock on steel :) I read once a story about Tristan who showed up at one of the largest I think East Coast boat shows dressed in his usual bohemian like manner- essentially incognito, and wandered around looking at the mega yachts. After observing the manner in which they were tied up, he approached what appeared to be the captain of the "Queen" of the show to whom he finally revealed his identity. He did so because of what he wanted to say. He simply asked the captain why he had permitted his boat to be tied up in a postion of such obvious danger should the wind veer and the weather come up...turned out the captain had indeed noticed the danger, but had been convinced by the marketing people that the boat needed to be placed where it was for maximum 'visual impact' on the crowd, and that the weather risk was 'acceptable'. Tristan wryly remarked something to the effect of the rhetorical...i.e. 'are YOU the captain? or is the marketing dept. Isn't it YOUR responsibility to do the best for your ship? not his?" Well, as it turned out, the captain thought it over and promptly gave orders to move the ship,(over the strident objections of the sales people) then broke out a bottle (he apparently knew quite a bit about Tristan heheheh) and they sat down to what must have been a wonderful conversation to sit in on. As you might expect...sure as hell the weather came up, his repositioned boat was safe and the ones in and around his original berth took a beating and many tens of thousands of dollars of damage. Anyway, back to the sailing off anchor part, Brent, to raise that main alone on anything but a course dead to windward was a nightmare in even moderate weather. That and the fact that I grew up in a family of engineers goes a long way towards explaining my being a bit 'anal' on insisting that anything afloat I captain has a stout and well maintained mechanical alternative to sole reliance upon the most fickle of the ancient greek mythological figures, the Zephyrs :) I bow however, to the wisdom of your suggestions and will now review the layout of my design for the new boat to incorporate such changes as I can envision that would facilitate the execution of the technique you have described :) It pleases me to see that I am not yet so 'old and set' as to not recognize sound advice when I see it :) seer --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "brentswain38" wrote: > > I'm amazed how many people have sailed for decades without ever > having learned how to sail the anchor out.They are sometimes sailing > on borrowed time ,as the Port Townsend incident shows > Sailing off the anchor is something that should be practiced > regularly , starting in moderate conditions , so you will know > exactly how your boat responds in a given set of conditions. If you > plan to sail, and have the room ,you should start getting underway by > raising the main first , then hauling the anchor in.You should never > put it off until you end up in the Port Towwnsend situation that you > describe, before trying it for the fist time. Ditto hauling the > anchor up from the cockpit. > Brent > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "brentswain38" > wrote: > > > > It's much easier than the alternatives. If you do the combination > of > > leading the anchor rode back to the cockpit and cleating it > > there,before uncleating it from the bow, then go foreward and > uncleat > > it and using both the > > mainsail and engine, crank in the rode with a sheet winch while > > sitting down and steering, you have things much more under control. > > You point much closer to the wind with the mainsail sheeted in hard > > and motoring than you ever would imagine . > > Brent > > > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "seeratlas" > > wrote: > > > > > > Fair enough Brent, but as you point out, not a lot of sailors > could > > > pull that off. When you're talking about new or inexperienced > > sailors, > > > well even more so. A few years ago, and perhaps some of you will > > > remember, at the wooden boat show over in I believe Port > Townsend, > > the > > > wind veered around pretty darned hard in the mid to late > afternoon > > and > > > a number of vessels had been anchored out in what 'had' been > > the 'lee' > > > to make room in the harbor for the boats being displayed. > > > > > > The combination of the wind and waves now hit the anchored boats > > dead > > > on the nose, driving pretty much all of them slowly backwards > > towards > > > the shore. It was with some fascination that I sat (in an > enclosed > > > upstairs bar mind you :) and watched a motor launch sweep back and > > > forth trying to get a line on each of the unattended boats and > pull > > > them out of jeopardy. I recall one fellow in particular who > > > apparently woken from a sound sleep, was struggling at the bow > > trying > > > to 1. stay on the boat as the vertical rise and fall was > > substantial, > > > and 2. somehow get the anchor up .. standing was impossible. > > > > > > for about 20 minutes he fought for his boat. I can't seem to > recall > > > what ultimately happened, but it seems to me he eventually cut the > > > anchor loose and a launch dragged him out into deeper water. > > > > > > I think most sailors would have been very hard pressed indeed to > > have > > > sailed off under those conditions. The vertical motion of the deck > > > near the bow was extreme. The size, frequency and impact of the > > waves > > > would have made recovering from a tack highly questionable, > > broaching > > > would have been more likely i think, further, given the modern > > > tendency for larger headsails, smaller mains, I'm not sure he'd > have > > > had the power to move forward, but that is all conjecture as the > > iron > > > horsed and ably crewed motorlaunch saved most of the boats I saw > > that day. > > > > > > seer > > > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "brentswain38" > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > On my last boat I had a 4 hp diesel. It couldn't power into > much, > > and > > > > I couldn't sail into much with just the mainsail sheeted in > hard, > > but > > > > combine the two and I could motorsail into anything. > > > > I'm surprised how few people learn how to sail an anchor > out.It's > > > > scary. > > > > To sail an anchor out, you hoist the mainsail and sheet her in > > hard. > > > > Then you go to the bow and start cranking the anchor up. The > boat > > > > tacks from side to side . When it goes on one tack, the anchor > > rode > > > > goes slack, and you crank in the slack . When the boat fetches > up > > > > against the rode before going on the other tack , you stop > > cranking > > > > and wait for the slack when it is on the other tack. Then you > > crank > > > > some more until it fetches up , wait for the tack , then start > > > > cranking in the slack.When the scope looks short enough to > break > > the > > > > anchor out, you wait for her to be on the tack you want , then > > crank > > > > like hell to make sure it breaks the anchor out while on that > > tack. > > > > Leaving the engine idling at the time is a good idea. > > > > When you have to get out of a tight hole , and don't have > time > > to > > > > run back to the cockpit before she heads for the rocks, you > lead > > your > > > > anchor rode aft before you start cranking it in. Then you crank > > your > > > > anchor rode in with the sheet winches from the cockpit.. You > can > > wind > > > > it on the drum later ,after you have gotten safely out into > clear > > > > water with sea room. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Carl Volkwein > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > seeratlas wrote: ok, > > > > > now i'm going to qualify what i'm about to say by telling you > > none > > > > of > > > > > this is theory, none of this is armchair pondering, its all > > based on > > > > > what i've physically seen, we're talking empirical evidence > > here. > > > > > > > > > > "IF" you're going to sail, there is going to come a time when > > you > > > > need > > > > > to go from where you are, to somewhere pretty much dead into > > the > > > > wind, > > > > > and you need to do it RIGHT NOW!!!!. AND, more than likely, > > dead > > > > into > > > > > the wind is going to be dead into a mean piece of sea. No > > sculling, > > > > no > > > > > tacking, no waiving down a passing powerboat...you're going > to > > be on > > > > > your own, and at that moment, if you CAN'T go dead into the > > wind, > > > > in a > > > > > seaway, you are going to tear the hell out of your boat, if > not > > lose > > > > > it completely, and maybe worse. > > > > > > > > > > Now my lifetime of sailing has led me to conclude that there > > are two > > > > > ways of designing/building a boat. You can design/build for > > halcyon > > > > > days, 14knot breezes from the stern quarter, and calm-softly > > rolling > > > > > seas..which may very well end up 60 percent of your life's > > > > > sailing...If your a prototypical fair weather sailor (and > > nothing > > > > > wrong with that) then this works fine..... > > > > > > > > > > OR, you can design for that hopefully rare, life- > threatening > > > > moment, > > > > > that some sailors will never see, with horrifically steep > seas, > > wind > > > > > dead on the nose, and something REALLY REALLY BAD dead > > astern.... > > > > > > > > > > take your pick. > > > > > > > > > > two things to remember, there are a LOT more 'bad things" to > > hit: > > > > > 1. near the shore, > > > > > 2. In the harbor > > > > > 3. in and around the docks > > > > > > > > > > than there are in the middle of the deep blue.... > > > > > > > > > > I've seen somewhere around 15-20 yachts lost within 100 yards > of > > > > > shore, when the wind veered to the nose, the sea came up, and > > they > > > > > couldn't power off anchor. > > > > > > > > > > Just remember, when giving advice to less experienced > sailors, > > > > realize > > > > > that to the extent they actually take your > > advice.....well...make > > > > sure > > > > > its good advice. > > > > > > > > > > seer > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "kendall" > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Michael Casling > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When we had a mini tornado come through the fleet during > a > > > > regatta a > > > > > > few years ago, the only boats that could go to windward > were > > the > > > > ones > > > > > > with diesels. > > > > > > > The steep waves close together, made it next to > impossible > > for > > > > any > > > > > > of the boats with OBMs to go anywhere, except where the > wind > > blew > > > > them. > > > > > > > For some that meant straight at a floating bridge that > was > > > > about one > > > > > > mile away. > > > > > > > The OBMs on a small boat can be a lot less hassle than a > > > > diesel, but > > > > > > at times they can be useless. > > > > > > > I have one of each. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Michael > > > > > > > > > > > > It's times like that where you don't fight the wind and > > instead > > > > work > > > > > > with it to move if not where you want to go, at least away > > from > > > > where > > > > > > you don't. > > > > > > > > > > > > Ken. > > > > > > What about a weed-eater whith a prop on it? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > > > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats- > > > > unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > > > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web. > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms > of > > > > Service. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > > > > Blab-away for as little as 1¢/min. Make PC-to-Phone Calls > > using > > > > Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > | 10896|10896|2006-04-23 23:58:21|Aaron|Sailboat for fishing|I was wondering how I could make a fishing boat using the BS36 or 40 Where would the fish hold go? How much weight could it pack safely?| 10897|9840|2006-04-24 16:33:13|..|BS 26|Hi Tom, I too was waiting for some news of the BS 26 with reduced draft and and improved keel, design by the naval architects in Gent. After all the discussions and conflicting statements I have been waiting to see what the underwater shape and keel would be and how they have improved on Brent's design . Geoff ------------------------------------------- >I am kinda curious What happened with admi and old ben mass producing >the BS 26? >As far as mine I recut about 32 inches of the chine and got the hook >out, she had about a 1/2" downward hook about 3/4 the way back. >probably wouldnt have hurt anything . Why do you think it looks like a kit? >One thing Thats kinda funny is allmost everyone that see's this boat >the first time think I built it from a kit and when I tell them no >just flat plates they look at me like Im full of it, mabee I am but it >didnt come from a kit. >Tom --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.859 / Virus Database: 585 - Release Date: 14/02/2005 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]| 10898|10879|2006-04-24 16:33:17|..|Bonding polycarbonate|Ted, It is quit difficult to bond polycarb,most solvents cause stress cracking, some will attach the polycarb at the time of application or will appear to be ok only to crack at a later date. It would be better to design your hatch to use a flat sheet or simple shapes, if you are hoping to make the polycarb into the shape of a tray with all sides turned at right angles to the large flat area you might do that ,but joining the corners will be difficult,the corners are areas of high stress where a crack might start. The other things to be careful about are drilling holes and cutting the parts from sheet,poly cab can be cut very fast with most wood cutting blades but it would be better to use a fine tooth blade and take the time as coarse blades with a lot of set will leave scratches on the edge of the sheet and part, these scratches or cut marks might cause a crack if the hatch was to suffer a heavy impact. It is best to smooth and remove these marks after cutting, a friend has just found out the hard way after a slot he cut in a part which took him a week to make, developed a number of small cracks along the edge of the slot,if he had draw filed the slot and polished the edges this might not have happened. If you wish to have a single bend or shallow dish in the part you can do that by heating the part in an oven,and allowing the part to drape onto a former, heating the sheet to do this will also stress relive the part. when I need to make a hatch I will make a stainless frame with hinges and locks then bolt the PC into the frame. If you have any more question just ask. Geoff Does anyone have experience in bonding polycarbonate (Lexan, Makrolon)? I am thinking of making hatch covers using polycarbonate top and sides bonded together with two stainless straps bolted across the top to carry the hinge fixings and catches. Regards, Ted --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.859 / Virus Database: 585 - Release Date: 14/02/2005 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]| 10899|10899|2006-04-24 21:45:32|tazmannusa|electric drive on BS 26|Hey Alex A while back you were talking about electric motor on the 26 well Ive been thinking about it and did a little checking on the idea, Minkota makes a transom mount trolling motor with 110 pounds of thrust whitch is equal to 6.5 HP it operates on 36 volt and draws 35 amps at full output. I dont think it can get any simpler than that run a 3 battery bank in or above the keel pull the 12 volt for lighting ext. from the negative battery run 3 solar panels in a series for 36 volt and a wind generator, wouldnt need gas, diesel, or shore power. I'm liken the idea the more I think about it and it sure would keep the EPA people around here happy Tom| 10900|10899|2006-04-24 22:11:45|Gary H. Lucas|Re: electric drive on BS 26|Buy two, one with a bow mount and electric steering, like the bass fishermen use. Mount it on the bow. Now you can motor straight away from the dock, spin in tight circles, or just go faster with them both pushing the same direction. Gary H. Lucas ----- Original Message ----- From: "tazmannusa" To: Sent: Monday, April 24, 2006 9:44 PM Subject: [origamiboats] electric drive on BS 26 > Hey Alex > A while back you were talking about electric motor on the 26 well Ive > been thinking about it and did a little checking on the idea, Minkota > makes a transom mount trolling motor with 110 pounds of thrust whitch > is equal to 6.5 HP it operates on 36 volt and draws 35 amps at full > output. I dont think it can get any simpler than that run a 3 battery > bank in or above the keel pull the 12 volt for lighting ext. from the > negative battery run 3 solar panels in a series for 36 volt and a wind > generator, wouldnt need gas, diesel, or shore power. I'm liken the > idea the more I think about it and it sure would keep the EPA people > around here happy > Tom > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > | 10901|10879|2006-04-25 04:08:08|edward_stoneuk|Re: Bonding polycarbonate|Thanks Geoff and Colin, I had read of the problem of stress cracking after cutting or drilling, and after solvent cleaning with some solvents. It is certainly the last thing one would need on a hatch cover. To a certain extent the flat top clamps down on the rubber seal and the sides act to keep the top flat and to take the force out green water forcing its way between the top and the seal. That said a hot moulded tray would have to be accurate to stop leaks. Do you know if cutting and drilling with a router avoids stress cracking? I have read too of using solvent such as methylene chloride to polish cut edges. Does methylene chloride cause stress cracking? I read too that ovens for heating for forming or annealing the cut sheet should use dried air. Do you know of a DIY method of arranging this? What is the problem with using undried air to heat polycarbonate? Where we are buiding our boat it is dusty and it would be preferable to heat form the sheet when the ground is damp to avoid dust sticking to the hot sheet. Questions, questions. Regards, Ted| 10902|10879|2006-04-25 10:15:37|colin edley|Re: Bonding polycarbonate|I'd agree with pretty much everything geoff said, as far as the humidity of the air goes if you want to form your hatch over a former in an oven there isnt going to be any anyway. edward_stoneuk wrote: Thanks Geoff and Colin, I had read of the problem of stress cracking after cutting or drilling, and after solvent cleaning with some solvents. It is certainly the last thing one would need on a hatch cover. To a certain extent the flat top clamps down on the rubber seal and the sides act to keep the top flat and to take the force out green water forcing its way between the top and the seal. That said a hot moulded tray would have to be accurate to stop leaks. Do you know if cutting and drilling with a router avoids stress cracking? I have read too of using solvent such as methylene chloride to polish cut edges. Does methylene chloride cause stress cracking? I read too that ovens for heating for forming or annealing the cut sheet should use dried air. Do you know of a DIY method of arranging this? What is the problem with using undried air to heat polycarbonate? Where we are buiding our boat it is dusty and it would be preferable to heat form the sheet when the ground is damp to avoid dust sticking to the hot sheet. Questions, questions. Regards, Ted To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com --------------------------------- YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. --------------------------------- --------------------------------- 24 FIFA World Cup tickets to be won with Yahoo! Mail. Learn more [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]| 10903|10879|2006-04-25 13:45:57|edward_stoneuk|Re: Bonding polycarbonate|Well yes and no Colin, As air gets hotter it can contain more moisture. If it is cooled below its dew point temperature, which depends on the moisture content of the air, the moisture drops out as in dew. As the air in the oven gets hotter then it can take up more moisture so I do not understand why it is a problem unless it is a problem when the annealing oven cools and moisture drops out of the air onto the polycarbonate. Regards, Ted| 10904|10899|2006-04-25 16:18:45|audeojude|Re: electric drive on BS 26|I'm not sure that 110 lbs converts to 6.5 hp... I'n real world models it seems to fall short... the electricboats group on yahoo here have some good results and a spreadsheet they are working on that you can plug in variables abuot your boat and electric engine to see how it will perform.... they update it with real world results as they come in.. I think you will find that your low speed torque will exceed a 6.5 hp engine but that you will lose about a 1 to 1.6 knots of speed at the top end. Backing will be better also. --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "tazmannusa" wrote: > > Hey Alex > A while back you were talking about electric motor on the 26 well Ive > been thinking about it and did a little checking on the idea, Minkota > makes a transom mount trolling motor with 110 pounds of thrust whitch > is equal to 6.5 HP it operates on 36 volt and draws 35 amps at full > output. I dont think it can get any simpler than that run a 3 battery > bank in or above the keel pull the 12 volt for lighting ext. from the > negative battery run 3 solar panels in a series for 36 volt and a wind > generator, wouldnt need gas, diesel, or shore power. I'm liken the > idea the more I think about it and it sure would keep the EPA people > around here happy > Tom > | 10905|10899|2006-04-25 17:34:44|Michael Casling|Re: electric drive on BS 26|Actually my thinking was that the 110 pounds of thrust will not move a 36 foot boat unless you paddle. Memory tells me you need 1000 pounds of thrust to equal one horsepower, at least when comparing jet engines. Practical experience leads me to my first comment. Michael ----- Original Message ----- From: audeojude To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2006 1:08 PM Subject: [origamiboats] Re: electric drive on BS 26 I'm not sure that 110 lbs converts to 6.5 hp... I'n real world models it seems to fall short... the electricboats group on yahoo here have some good results and a spreadsheet they are working on that you can plug in variables abuot your boat and electric engine to see how it will perform.... they update it with real world results as they come in.. I think you will find that your low speed torque will exceed a 6.5 hp engine but that you will lose about a 1 to 1.6 knots of speed at the top end. Backing will be better also. --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "tazmannusa" wrote: > > Hey Alex > A while back you were talking about electric motor on the 26 well Ive > been thinking about it and did a little checking on the idea, Minkota > makes a transom mount trolling motor with 110 pounds of thrust whitch > is equal to 6.5 HP it operates on 36 volt and draws 35 amps at full > output. I dont think it can get any simpler than that run a 3 battery > bank in or above the keel pull the 12 volt for lighting ext. from the > negative battery run 3 solar panels in a series for 36 volt and a wind > generator, wouldnt need gas, diesel, or shore power. I'm liken the > idea the more I think about it and it sure would keep the EPA people > around here happy > Tom > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com SPONSORED LINKS British columbia canada Vancouver island Yacht ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS a.. Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web. b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 10906|10899|2006-04-25 17:41:27|Charles Sollitt|Re: electric drive on BS 26|Power = force X velocity 1 horsepower = 550 ft-lbs/sec Thus, 6.5 HP at 110 lbs force would require a velocity of 32.5 ft/sec or 22.2 miles per hour (60 mph= 88fps). That's very fast for a displacement hull! _____ From: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com [mailto:origamiboats@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of audeojude Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2006 1:09 PM To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Subject: [origamiboats] Re: electric drive on BS 26 I'm not sure that 110 lbs converts to 6.5 hp... I'n real world models it seems to fall short... the electricboats group on yahoo here have some good results and a spreadsheet they are working on that you can plug in variables abuot your boat and electric engine to see how it will perform.... they update it with real world results as they come in.. I think you will find that your low speed torque will exceed a 6.5 hp engine but that you will lose about a 1 to 1.6 knots of speed at the top end. Backing will be better also. --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "tazmannusa" wrote: > > Hey Alex > A while back you were talking about electric motor on the 26 well Ive > been thinking about it and did a little checking on the idea, Minkota > makes a transom mount trolling motor with 110 pounds of thrust whitch > is equal to 6.5 HP it operates on 36 volt and draws 35 amps at full > output. I dont think it can get any simpler than that run a 3 battery > bank in or above the keel pull the 12 volt for lighting ext. from the > negative battery run 3 solar panels in a series for 36 volt and a wind > generator, wouldnt need gas, diesel, or shore power. I'm liken the > idea the more I think about it and it sure would keep the EPA people > around here happy > Tom > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com SPONSORED LINKS British columbia canada Vancouver island Yacht _____ YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS * Visit your group "origamiboats " on the web. * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service . _____ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 10907|10899|2006-04-25 17:58:34|racer577@citystar.com|Re: electric drive on BS 26|power also = volts X amps, 36 volts X 35 amps = 1260 watts, If I remember correctly 754 watt/hp = 1.67 hp input to the motor. Then take into account the efficiency of the motor and prop. John > Power = force X velocity > 1 horsepower = 550 ft-lbs/sec > Thus, 6.5 HP at 110 lbs force would require a velocity of 32.5 ft/sec or > 22.2 miles per hour (60 mph= 88fps). That's very fast for a displacement > hull! > > _____ > > From: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com [mailto:origamiboats@yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of audeojude > Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2006 1:09 PM > To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [origamiboats] Re: electric drive on BS 26 > > > I'm not sure that 110 lbs converts to 6.5 hp... > > I'n real world models it seems to fall short... > > the electricboats group on yahoo here have some good results and a > spreadsheet they are working on that you can plug in variables abuot > your boat and electric engine to see how it will perform.... they > update it with real world results as they come in.. > > I think you will find that your low speed torque will exceed a 6.5 hp > engine but that you will lose about a 1 to 1.6 knots of speed at the > top end. Backing will be better also. > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "tazmannusa" wrote: >> >> Hey Alex >> A while back you were talking about electric motor on the 26 well Ive >> been thinking about it and did a little checking on the idea, Minkota >> makes a transom mount trolling motor with 110 pounds of thrust whitch >> is equal to 6.5 HP it operates on 36 volt and draws 35 amps at full >> output. I dont think it can get any simpler than that run a 3 battery >> bank in or above the keel pull the 12 volt for lighting ext. from the >> negative battery run 3 solar panels in a series for 36 volt and a wind >> generator, wouldnt need gas, diesel, or shore power. I'm liken the >> idea the more I think about it and it sure would keep the EPA people >> around here happy >> Tom >> > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > > SPONSORED LINKS > British > mbia+canada&w2=Vancouver+island&w3=Yacht&c=3&s=62&.sig=Q4lYYtlNW0FQO44ezC2G3 > Q> columbia canada Vancouver > nada&w2=Vancouver+island&w3=Yacht&c=3&s=62&.sig=TVvK0pZk9dkmygRA0hegNw> > island Yacht > couver+island&w3=Yacht&c=3&s=62&.sig=lCcJSZ2V25esT9G6EcjB6g> > > _____ > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > > > * Visit your group "origamiboats > " on the web. > > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service > . > > > _____ > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > | 10908|10899|2006-04-25 18:38:48|Charles Sollitt|Re: electric drive on BS 26|My 36 HP Kubota will develop 6 knots or 7 mph (10.2 fps) at 80% throttle in calm seas on my BS 36. That's equivalent to approximately 1930 lbs of resistance. So form drag and skin friction is closer to 2000 lbs, not 110 lbs at hull speed. Resistance increases with the square of velocity so at 3 knots you would develop approximately 500 lbs of resistance force on a BS 36. None of these estimates account for engine and drive train inefficiencies. Chuck _____ From: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com [mailto:origamiboats@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of racer577@... Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2006 2:49 PM To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [origamiboats] Re: electric drive on BS 26 power also = volts X amps, 36 volts X 35 amps = 1260 watts, If I remember correctly 754 watt/hp = 1.67 hp input to the motor. Then take into account the efficiency of the motor and prop. John > Power = force X velocity > 1 horsepower = 550 ft-lbs/sec > Thus, 6.5 HP at 110 lbs force would require a velocity of 32.5 ft/sec or > 22.2 miles per hour (60 mph= 88fps). That's very fast for a displacement > hull! > > _____ > > From: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com [mailto:origamiboats@yahoogroups.com] > On > Behalf Of audeojude > Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2006 1:09 PM > To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [origamiboats] Re: electric drive on BS 26 > > > I'm not sure that 110 lbs converts to 6.5 hp... > > I'n real world models it seems to fall short... > > the electricboats group on yahoo here have some good results and a > spreadsheet they are working on that you can plug in variables abuot > your boat and electric engine to see how it will perform.... they > update it with real world results as they come in.. > > I think you will find that your low speed torque will exceed a 6.5 hp > engine but that you will lose about a 1 to 1.6 knots of speed at the > top end. Backing will be better also. > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "tazmannusa" wrote: >> >> Hey Alex >> A while back you were talking about electric motor on the 26 well Ive >> been thinking about it and did a little checking on the idea, Minkota >> makes a transom mount trolling motor with 110 pounds of thrust whitch >> is equal to 6.5 HP it operates on 36 volt and draws 35 amps at full >> output. I dont think it can get any simpler than that run a 3 battery >> bank in or above the keel pull the 12 volt for lighting ext. from the >> negative battery run 3 solar panels in a series for 36 volt and a wind >> generator, wouldnt need gas, diesel, or shore power. I'm liken the >> idea the more I think about it and it sure would keep the EPA people >> around here happy >> Tom >> > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > > SPONSORED LINKS > British > &k=British+columbia+canada&w1=British+colu > mbia+canada&w2=Vancouver+island&w3=Yacht&c=3&s=62&.sig=Q4lYYtlNW0FQO44ezC2G3 > Q> columbia canada Vancouver > &k=Vancouver+island&w1=British+columbia+ca > nada&w2=Vancouver+island&w3=Yacht&c=3&s=62&.sig=TVvK0pZk9dkmygRA0hegNw> > island Yacht > &k=Yacht&w1=British+columbia+canada&w2=Van > couver+island&w3=Yacht&c=3&s=62&.sig=lCcJSZ2V25esT9G6EcjB6g> > > _____ > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > > > * Visit your group "origamiboats > " on the web. > > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service > . > > > _____ > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com _____ YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS * Visit your group "origamiboats " on the web. * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service . _____ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]| 10909|10899|2006-04-25 19:51:07|kendall|Re: electric drive on BS 26|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Michael Casling wrote: > > Actually my thinking was that the 110 pounds of thrust will not move a 36 foot boat unless you paddle. > Memory tells me you need 1000 pounds of thrust to equal one horsepower, at least when comparing jet engines. > Practical experience leads me to my first comment. > > Michael > I have to agree with that, I've read that 30lbs is roughly equal to about 0.10 hp, can't remember where the figures come from though. I know that a 35lbs thrust trolling motor won't move my little boat anywhere near the same speed as a 2hp outboard. ken.| 10910|1131|2006-04-25 20:17:51|al weiman|Re: Dry exhaust|I've been told some people just use a wooden plug. edward_stoneuk wrote: Are there any views on using galvanised pipe exhausts as opposed to stainless exhausts? I was down in Brixham on the Devon coast at the weekend. All the fishing boats that I saw had rusty mild steel exhaust pipes. I have a stainless muffler and some scrap Renault truck stainless exhaust about Ø2", but it is a bit thin walled for my welding skills and I was wondering if galvanised pipe wouldn't be better. What is the best way to stop the sea coming back up the pipe in a following sea? I am thinking of putting a flap over the end. Regards, Ted To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links --------------------------------- Share your photos with the people who matter at Yahoo! Canada Photos [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]| 10911|10899|2006-04-25 22:29:34|tom|Re: electric drive on BS 26|Lots of interesting math here. I was going by what I have been told by the local boat shops , when comparing an electric trolling motor to a gas outboard motor. 17 pounds of thrust is equal to a 1 hp outboard. Anyway I was trying to locate the site that had them on sale that I got the info on the motor from and Ill be danged I cant find it and its not in my computer history eather so I went to minn kota's web site and yes the info was a little off, It's a 101 pounds of thrust , 46 Amp , 36 volt. So far the charts I have read to figure what size electric motor to buy say 7000 pound boat for the 101# thrust, strange that it would be less than 2 HP. About 10 years ago I had one on my fishing boat that was called a minn kota 3 HP and it operated on 12 volt. Tom ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2006 2:48 PM Subject: RE: [origamiboats] Re: electric drive on BS 26 > power also = volts X amps, 36 volts X 35 amps = 1260 watts, If I remember > correctly 754 watt/hp = 1.67 hp input to the motor. Then take into > account the efficiency of the motor and prop. > > John > >> Power = force X velocity >> 1 horsepower = 550 ft-lbs/sec >> Thus, 6.5 HP at 110 lbs force would require a velocity of 32.5 ft/sec or >> 22.2 miles per hour (60 mph= 88fps). That's very fast for a displacement >> hull! >> >> _____ >> >> From: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com [mailto:origamiboats@yahoogroups.com] >> On >> Behalf Of audeojude >> Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2006 1:09 PM >> To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com >> Subject: [origamiboats] Re: electric drive on BS 26 >> >> >> I'm not sure that 110 lbs converts to 6.5 hp... >> >> I'n real world models it seems to fall short... >> >> the electricboats group on yahoo here have some good results and a >> spreadsheet they are working on that you can plug in variables abuot >> your boat and electric engine to see how it will perform.... they >> update it with real world results as they come in.. >> >> I think you will find that your low speed torque will exceed a 6.5 hp >> engine but that you will lose about a 1 to 1.6 knots of speed at the >> top end. Backing will be better also. >> >> >> --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "tazmannusa" wrote: >>> >>> Hey Alex >>> A while back you were talking about electric motor on the 26 well Ive >>> been thinking about it and did a little checking on the idea, Minkota >>> makes a transom mount trolling motor with 110 pounds of thrust whitch >>> is equal to 6.5 HP it operates on 36 volt and draws 35 amps at full >>> output. I dont think it can get any simpler than that run a 3 battery >>> bank in or above the keel pull the 12 volt for lighting ext. from the >>> negative battery run 3 solar panels in a series for 36 volt and a wind >>> generator, wouldnt need gas, diesel, or shore power. I'm liken the >>> idea the more I think about it and it sure would keep the EPA people >>> around here happy >>> Tom >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com >> To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: >> origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com >> >> >> >> >> SPONSORED LINKS >> British >> > mbia+canada&w2=Vancouver+island&w3=Yacht&c=3&s=62&.sig=Q4lYYtlNW0FQO44ezC2G3 >> Q> columbia canada Vancouver >> > nada&w2=Vancouver+island&w3=Yacht&c=3&s=62&.sig=TVvK0pZk9dkmygRA0hegNw> >> island Yacht >> > couver+island&w3=Yacht&c=3&s=62&.sig=lCcJSZ2V25esT9G6EcjB6g> >> >> _____ >> >> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS >> >> >> >> * Visit your group "origamiboats >> " on the web. >> >> >> * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >> origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com >> >> >> >> * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service >> . >> >> >> _____ >> >> >> >> >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >> >> >> >> To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com >> To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: >> origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com >> Yahoo! Groups Links >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > | 10912|10899|2006-04-25 23:31:32|Jon & Wanda(Tink)|Re: electric drive on BS 26|The 3 HP was to giving refferance to the size of gas outboard it was equal to in the days before as now when people didn't under stand E-HP is different ther G-HP. The 12VDC could have been only a 3/4 E-hp and no one would have bought that. The 101# thrust may be only2 E-HP and have the power if a 10 G-HP trowling motor. In those terms what do you think the uninformed would doif they didn't know what Bass fisherman where doing. 10 HP on the bow LOL and saved a bundel on a used one ROFLOL Jon It's a 101 pounds of thrust , 46 Amp , 36 volt. So far the > charts I have read to figure what size electric motor to buy say 7000 pound > boat for the 101# thrust, strange that it would be less than 2 HP. About 10 > years ago I had one on my fishing boat that was called a minn kota 3 HP and > it operated on 12 volt. > Tom | 10913|10899|2006-04-26 00:17:36|Michael Casling|Re: electric drive on BS 26|I am stretching the memory banks on this, but I can tell you that the largest Minn Kota had way less power than a two horsepower gas motor. I am going back to the eighties when I sold them. A battery weighs more than the 2 hp gas motor, something like 60 pounds for the battery and 34 pounds for the gas motor. And if you took another 24 pounds of petrol and oil with you, the gas motor would run for a week, and the electric motor would fizzle very quickly. The electric motors are okay on a small tin boat, or canoe for trolling speeds only, on a lake that does not allow gas motors. For the more energetic it is better to row or paddle. Michael ----- Original Message ----- From: tom To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2006 7:29 PM Subject: Re: [origamiboats] Re: electric drive on BS 26 Lots of interesting math here. I was going by what I have been told by the local boat shops , when comparing an electric trolling motor to a gas outboard motor. 17 pounds of thrust is equal to a 1 hp outboard. Anyway I was trying to locate the site that had them on sale that I got the info on the motor from and Ill be danged I cant find it and its not in my computer history eather so I went to minn kota's web site and yes the info was a little off, It's a 101 pounds of thrust , 46 Amp , 36 volt. So far the charts I have read to figure what size electric motor to buy say 7000 pound boat for the 101# thrust, strange that it would be less than 2 HP. About 10 years ago I had one on my fishing boat that was called a minn kota 3 HP and it operated on 12 volt. Tom ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2006 2:48 PM Subject: RE: [origamiboats] Re: electric drive on BS 26 > power also = volts X amps, 36 volts X 35 amps = 1260 watts, If I remember > correctly 754 watt/hp = 1.67 hp input to the motor. Then take into > account the efficiency of the motor and prop. > > John > >> Power = force X velocity >> 1 horsepower = 550 ft-lbs/sec >> Thus, 6.5 HP at 110 lbs force would require a velocity of 32.5 ft/sec or >> 22.2 miles per hour (60 mph= 88fps). That's very fast for a displacement >> hull! >> >> _____ >> >> From: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com [mailto:origamiboats@yahoogroups.com] >> On >> Behalf Of audeojude >> Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2006 1:09 PM >> To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com >> Subject: [origamiboats] Re: electric drive on BS 26 >> >> >> I'm not sure that 110 lbs converts to 6.5 hp... >> >> I'n real world models it seems to fall short... >> >> the electricboats group on yahoo here have some good results and a >> spreadsheet they are working on that you can plug in variables abuot >> your boat and electric engine to see how it will perform.... they >> update it with real world results as they come in.. >> >> I think you will find that your low speed torque will exceed a 6.5 hp >> engine but that you will lose about a 1 to 1.6 knots of speed at the >> top end. Backing will be better also. >> >> >> --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "tazmannusa" wrote: >>> >>> Hey Alex >>> A while back you were talking about electric motor on the 26 well Ive >>> been thinking about it and did a little checking on the idea, Minkota >>> makes a transom mount trolling motor with 110 pounds of thrust whitch >>> is equal to 6.5 HP it operates on 36 volt and draws 35 amps at full >>> output. I dont think it can get any simpler than that run a 3 battery >>> bank in or above the keel pull the 12 volt for lighting ext. from the >>> negative battery run 3 solar panels in a series for 36 volt and a wind >>> generator, wouldnt need gas, diesel, or shore power. I'm liken the >>> idea the more I think about it and it sure would keep the EPA people >>> around here happy >>> Tom >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com >> To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: >> origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com >> >> >> >> >> SPONSORED LINKS >> British >> > mbia+canada&w2=Vancouver+island&w3=Yacht&c=3&s=62&.sig=Q4lYYtlNW0FQO44ezC2G3 >> Q> columbia canada Vancouver >> > nada&w2=Vancouver+island&w3=Yacht&c=3&s=62&.sig=TVvK0pZk9dkmygRA0hegNw> >> island Yacht >> > couver+island&w3=Yacht&c=3&s=62&.sig=lCcJSZ2V25esT9G6EcjB6g> >> >> _____ >> >> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS >> >> >> >> * Visit your group "origamiboats >> " on the web. >> >> >> * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >> origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com >> >> >> >> * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service >> . >> >> >> _____ >> >> >> >> >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >> >> >> >> To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com >> To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: >> origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com >> Yahoo! Groups Links >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS a.. Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web. b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 10914|10899|2006-04-26 00:31:46|ALEX CHRISTIE|Re: electric drive on BS 26|Brent just met someone who parked a small electrically powered small sailboat in his usual anchorage, travelling up the coast in short hops. This fellow reported that he got something like 20 miles from a charge, and was fine with its limitations in return for the benefits. He recharges with wind power. It sounds like he's got an eTek motor in there, as he said it was $300 for the motor and $300 for the controller, plus a small battery bank. Something to ponder for a small boat if you are not heavily dependent on powering all day. In a pinch, a honda generator could top you up while powering to extend your range. Not perfect, but simple. Alex [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]| 10915|1131|2006-04-26 03:43:33|edward_stoneuk|Re: Dry exhaust|Al, That seems a good idea. Regards, Ted --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, al weiman wrote: > > I've been told some people just use a wooden plug. > > edward_stoneuk wrote: Are there any views on using galvanised pipe exhausts as opposed to > stainless exhausts? I was down in Brixham on the Devon coast at the > weekend. All the fishing boats that I saw had rusty mild steel > exhaust pipes. I have a stainless muffler and some scrap Renault > truck stainless exhaust about Ø2", but it is a bit thin walled for my > welding skills and I was wondering if galvanised pipe wouldn't be > better. What is the best way to stop the sea coming back up the pipe > in a following sea? I am thinking of putting a flap over the end. > Regards, > Ted > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats- unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > Share your photos with the people who matter at Yahoo! Canada Photos > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > | 10916|10899|2006-04-26 09:56:38|racer577@citystar.com|Re: electric drive on BS 26|You are comparing two different things, thrust and HP. Thrust is a force, while HP is work, which is force over time. It is much like comparing a motorcycle engine to a diesel. They may make similar HP, but one is doing it by turning very fast with little torque, the other has lots of torque, but little rpm. Here is an example, current 600cc motorcycle makes about 100 hp at 14,000 rpm. That is about 38 ftlbs of torque. HP ~ torque X rpm /5240. Compare that to a Jetta TDI which makes about 100 hp at 1800 rpm which is about 290 ftlbs of torque. Electric motors can be built to produce HP either way, high torque/low rpm or high rpm/low torque. So a large thrust with a slow speed or a low thrust with high speed. Trolling motors are probably high thrust/low speed since they are usually used for manuvering. John > The 3 HP was to giving refferance to the size of gas outboard it was > equal to in the days before as now when people didn't under stand E-HP > is different ther G-HP. The 12VDC could have been only a 3/4 E-hp and > no one would have bought that. The 101# thrust may be only2 E-HP and > have the power if a 10 G-HP trowling motor. In those terms what do you > think the uninformed would doif they didn't know what Bass fisherman > where doing. 10 HP on the bow LOL and saved a bundel on a used one > ROFLOL > > Jon > > It's a 101 pounds of thrust , 46 Amp , 36 volt. So far the >> charts I have read to figure what size electric motor to buy say > 7000 pound >> boat for the 101# thrust, strange that it would be less than 2 HP. > About 10 >> years ago I had one on my fishing boat that was called a minn kota 3 > HP and >> it operated on 12 volt. >> Tom > > > > > > | 10917|10899|2006-04-26 10:54:00|Aaron Williams|Re: electric drive on BS 26|Go to Solomon Technologies they have some good info even if they are a bit expensive. http://www.solomontechnologies.com/horsepower.htm --------------------------------- Celebrate Earth Day everyday! Discover 10 things you can do to help slow climate change. Yahoo! Earth Day [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]| 10918|10918|2006-04-26 16:45:07|prairiemaidca|Shining the rails|Hi All: Prairie Maids rails are now almost finished. Does anyone have an easy way to polish up this 1" O.D. 316 stainless?? Mayby something that will work on an angle grinder or drill etc. Martin...| 10919|10918|2006-04-26 17:21:02|kingsknight4life|Re: Shining the rails|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "prairiemaidca" wrote: > > Hi All: Prairie Maids rails are now almost finished. Does anyone have > an easy way to polish up this 1" O.D. 316 stainless?? Mayby something > that will work on an angle grinder or drill etc. Martin... > Hi Martin. For once I know the answer.:) You can buy an attachment for your angle grinder, I think Cdn. tire has them but you can get them at any welding supplies shop. The attachement is a rubber pad with a velcro face,the velcro allows you to attach various grits of sandpaper for removing spatter or patina. The best attachment isn't sandpaper at all but looks like it is made out of a a brillo pad, it comes in various grits, as well. These can be used for poliishing, removing patina, even smoothing out seems, nicks and spatter. Another alternative is a roped Stainless Steel wire brush (make sure it's SS or your rails will have rust in them). It works great but will give your stainless a more "cast" appearance. Personally I think it looks nicer than the sandpaper or "brillo pad" as it doesn't produce any sanding lines. I'm sure you could remove the sanding lines by going over the rails with subsequently finer grits of either paper or brillo pad. This advice is for SS rails made of 316 stainless or similair variations. I wouldn't use it on the "shiny stainless" the type that looks like chrome, it would remove the coating. On final note Brent said Brill cream works well to polish the SS. There's a post on it here somewhere, just have to search for it. Happy boat building, Rowland| 10920|10918|2006-04-27 00:20:11|ALEX CHRISTIE|Re: Shining the rails|Gord Schnell on Amazing Grace, the 40 footer, was using something that looked liked a grinding wheel yet it did not score the stainless, it just left a beautiful looking professional finish. I don't recall the name, but it blended one piece to another seamlessly as if it were all cast in one piece. Perhaps if he sees this he can let us know. Alex [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]| 10921|10918|2006-04-27 04:24:55|edward_stoneuk|Re: Shining the rails|Alex, It might have been a flexible flap disc. I use a 40 and then a 80 grit disc. They give a satin finish. Regards, Ted| 10922|10922|2006-04-27 09:42:15|SHANE ROTHWELL|Windvanes & Selfsteering|Thanks everyone for your input. In the mean time the boat sold. Brent, your suggestion of cutting off the transom at the water line was most interesting. if something should come up in future would you be interesting in designing similar changes for me? Thanks, Shane __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com| 10923|10918|2006-04-27 10:06:11|Aaron Williams|Re: Shining the rails|I use scotch-brite pads to polish up steal in my shop. Aaron ALEX CHRISTIE wrote: Gord Schnell on Amazing Grace, the 40 footer, was using something that looked liked a grinding wheel yet it did not score the stainless, it just left a beautiful looking professional finish. I don't recall the name, but it blended one piece to another seamlessly as if it were all cast in one piece. Perhaps if he sees this he can let us know. Alex [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com --------------------------------- YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. --------------------------------- --------------------------------- Blab-away for as little as 1¢/min. Make PC-to-Phone Calls using Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]| 10924|10922|2006-04-27 15:08:50|brentswain38|Re: Windvanes & Selfsteering|Yes I'd be happy to help with the improvements. Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, SHANE ROTHWELL wrote: > > Thanks everyone for your input. In the mean time the > boat sold. > > Brent, your suggestion of cutting off the transom at > the water line was most interesting. if something > should come up in future would you be interesting in > designing similar changes for me? > > Thanks, > Shane > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > | 10925|1131|2006-04-27 15:12:27|brentswain38|Re: Dry exhaust|I've had the same piece of sch 40 stainless in for 22 years, no problem. If it were a wet exhuast it would have rusted thru quickly where the water meets the hot diesel exhuast.Galvanized sch 40 pipe can work, just make it easily replaceable and replace it before doing long ocean passages. Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, al weiman wrote: > > I've been told some people just use a wooden plug. > > edward_stoneuk wrote: Are there any views on using galvanised pipe exhausts as opposed to > stainless exhausts? I was down in Brixham on the Devon coast at the > weekend. All the fishing boats that I saw had rusty mild steel > exhaust pipes. I have a stainless muffler and some scrap Renault > truck stainless exhaust about Ø2", but it is a bit thin walled for my > welding skills and I was wondering if galvanised pipe wouldn't be > better. What is the best way to stop the sea coming back up the pipe > in a following sea? I am thinking of putting a flap over the end. > Regards, > Ted > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats- unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > Share your photos with the people who matter at Yahoo! Canada Photos > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > | 10926|10918|2006-04-27 15:12:33|brentswain38|Re: Shining the rails|You can buy those scotch brite like pads , made to fit an angle grinder in welding shops. They work well, next best thing to electro polishing. I tried puting the positive stinger on a piece of stainless and immersing it in a bucket of seawater connected to the negative.The result looked like cast stainless, an even gray colour. Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Aaron Williams wrote: > > I use scotch-brite pads to polish up steal in my shop. > Aaron > > ALEX CHRISTIE wrote: > Gord Schnell on Amazing Grace, the 40 footer, was using something that looked liked a grinding wheel yet it did not score the stainless, it just left a beautiful looking professional finish. I don't recall the name, but it blended one piece to another seamlessly as if it were all cast in one piece. Perhaps if he sees this he can let us know. > > Alex > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats- unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > --------------------------------- > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > > Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > > --------------------------------- > > > > > > --------------------------------- > Blab-away for as little as 1¢/min. Make PC-to-Phone Calls using Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > | 10927|10899|2006-04-27 15:20:14|brentswain38|Re: electric drive on BS 26|I seem to remember reading somewhere that a ten HP diesel will put out around 350 lbs of thrust.One can always check it with a scale on a boat tied to the dock. It will be less efficient than a moving boat, but will give a rough idea.One can slow it down to the thrust of an electric motor, then do the same RPM underway and see what the electric motor will give in terms of speed. Will one of you guys who tie up to docks give it a try? Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "kendall" wrote: > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Michael Casling wrote: > > > > Actually my thinking was that the 110 pounds of thrust will not move > a 36 foot boat unless you paddle. > > Memory tells me you need 1000 pounds of thrust to equal one > horsepower, at least when comparing jet engines. > > Practical experience leads me to my first comment. > > > > Michael > > > > I have to agree with that, I've read that 30lbs is roughly equal to > about 0.10 hp, can't remember where the figures come from though. > I know that a 35lbs thrust trolling motor won't move my little boat > anywhere near the same speed as a 2hp outboard. > > ken. > | 10928|10918|2006-04-27 16:13:00|gschnell|Re: Shining the rails|Martin I use two SAIT brand (United Abrasives) discs for the process. For blending the steel to SS weld area, use the SAIT Challenger II Type 29-A36 discs. They are slightly flexible and recurved to may a smooth corner. For polishing the SS and weld site, I use SAITBLEND A54F - Flexible discs. As Alex stated, they leave a beautiful finish. Hope that helps. Gord prairiemaidca wrote: > Hi All: Prairie Maids rails are now almost finished. Does anyone > have > an easy way to polish up this 1" O.D. 316 stainless?? Mayby something > > that will work on an angle grinder or drill etc. Martin... > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > + Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web. > > + To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > + Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > Service. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]| 10929|10918|2006-04-27 16:52:23|prairiemaidca|Shining the rails|Hi All: Thanks for the great info. I have been using a 120 flapper disc on the stantion to rail joints etc and around the bullwark pipe as well since it is 316 also. I'll check out the shops for some kind of scotch brite that I can run on my small angle grinder, then I should be able to walk the decks and shine the rail in no time. I have one that a friend gave me but the hole in the centre is probably 3 or 4 in. in dia. with the scotch part being at one time as big as 8 or 10 in. It has a very nice groove worn in the centre and if I could turn it I'm sure it would do most of the shining P.D.Q.. I'll look for a smaller version. Thanks Martin..| 10930|10899|2006-04-28 13:01:27|cirejay|Re: electric drive on BS 26|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, racer577@... wrote: > Here is an example, current 600cc motorcycle makes about 100 hp at 14,000 > rpm. That is about 38 ftlbs of torque. HP ~ torque X rpm /5240. Compare > that to a Jetta TDI which makes about 100 hp at 1800 rpm which is about > 290 ftlbs of torque. That's a good analogy but let's take it one step further. Suppose you put the 600cc engine in the Jetta and, while you were at it, you took the wheels off of your bicycle (not motorcycle) and put them on the Jetta too. Now, rev her up, pop the clutch, and relax while you burn the rubber off of the tires :-). That approximates the action of that little, fast revving prop slipping in the water on the large boat. BTW, one still needs horsepower and 1 hp = 746 watts. So, no matter what, that 6.5hp at 36 volts is going to take 135 amps at 100% efficiency. Katie bar the door:-) eric S/V Nebaras| 10931|10918|2006-04-28 14:55:29|Michael|Re: Shining the rails|First piece of advice is do not use an angle grinder. The speed of these tools is not suited to buffing and polishing of stainless. Use a variable speed angle polisher with a good, very flexible backing pad. Graduating the disc grit from say 220 down to really fine 340 or so will help you work on rough spots. Start the polisher up with the disc alreasdy resting on the work with very low rpm's to avoid edge marks from the disc. When you have all the "excess" tig work out of the joint areas, you are ready for polishing pastes. Cloth buffing wheels in the same polisher with graduated pastes are the way to go. Excessive scratches from 3M type pads will work out of the piece easily with some diligence to the graduated grit process. Heat generated by overexuberant polishing *will* deform thin 316 tubing, so go easy. When you get it all even and bright, best to wrap it in Tyvek or similar to prevent contamination and scratching. Any nearby work (grinding, cutting, welding) of ferrous material will quickly contaminate the surface imperfections of 316 to the point where it will "rust"... really the ferrous stuff that is oxidizing. I absolutely hate polishing stainless... have fun! Michael Burton, Sydney, BC| 10932|10899|2006-04-28 19:35:33|Jon & Wanda(Tink)|Re: electric drive on BS 26|The reating of a gas motor is at its optimal RPM for HP at lower RPM it will not have the Hp or torque. a electric motor will be a t almost full torque at 10 RPM with HP and RPM determend by Voltage and amprage input. Jon --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "cirejay" wrote: > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, racer577@ wrote: > > Here is an example, current 600cc motorcycle makes about 100 hp at > 14,000 > > rpm. That is about 38 ftlbs of torque. HP ~ torque X rpm /5240. > Compare > > that to a Jetta TDI which makes about 100 hp at 1800 rpm which is > about > > 290 ftlbs of torque. > > That's a good analogy but let's take it one step further. Suppose > you put the 600cc engine in the Jetta and, while you were at it, you > took the wheels off of your bicycle (not motorcycle) and put them on > the Jetta too. > > Now, rev her up, pop the clutch, and relax while you burn the rubber > off of the tires :-). > > That approximates the action of that little, fast revving prop > slipping in the water on the large boat. > > BTW, one still needs horsepower and 1 hp = 746 watts. So, no matter > what, that 6.5hp at 36 volts is going to take 135 amps at 100% > efficiency. Katie bar the door:-) > > eric S/V Nebaras > | 10933|10899|2006-04-28 23:29:00|Michael Casling|Re: electric drive on BS 26|Good theory. Have you used an electric motor ? The propellors are pastic so they are not expecting much in the way of thrust. Please anyone, bolt an electric motor on a boat, any boat and tell me if you think they have enough umph to move a 36 foot sailboat. I will stick with my previous statement that a two hp OBM will have more thrust and keep on thrusting much longer. And I say that without having tried the newer more powerfull electric motors. Also consider the weight of the batteries. Michael ----- Original Message ----- From: Jon & Wanda(Tink) To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, April 28, 2006 4:35 PM Subject: [origamiboats] Re: electric drive on BS 26 The reating of a gas motor is at its optimal RPM for HP at lower RPM it will not have the Hp or torque. a electric motor will be a t almost full torque at 10 RPM with HP and RPM determend by Voltage and amprage input. Jon [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 10934|10899|2006-04-29 00:37:44|Alex Christie|Re: electric drive on BS 26|The plastic trolling motors have very small props -- a large three-blade prop combined with a briggs and stratton eTek electric motor (8hp I think) should provide a lot of muscle on the other hand. Battery weight? Keep it low and consider it ballast. It isn't a case of not being able to move the boat, so much as how far (range) one can do it before petering out. The people Brent met with the electric drive were content with their 20 nautical mile powering ability, as they sail as often as possible. I suspect they were using a minimal complement of batteries and were ok with that. For some people that like to motor a lot (I see sailboats all summer long up and down the coast powering while there is a perfect favourable wind, their sails bagged, bound and gagged -- go figure), it wouldn't work. They should build an origami trawler and stop dragging keels through the water -- they'll save some fuel :-) Alex ----- Original Message ----- From: Michael Casling To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, April 28, 2006 8:28 PM Subject: Re: [origamiboats] Re: electric drive on BS 26 Good theory. Have you used an electric motor ? The propellors are pastic so they are not expecting much in the way of thrust. Please anyone, bolt an electric motor on a boat, any boat and tell me if you think they have enough umph to move a 36 foot sailboat. I will stick with my previous statement that a two hp OBM will have more thrust and keep on thrusting much longer. And I say that without having tried the newer more powerfull electric motors. Also consider the weight of the batteries. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 10935|10899|2006-04-29 03:53:32|sae140|Re: electric drive on BS 26|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Michael Casling wrote: > > Actually my thinking was that the 110 pounds of thrust will not move a 36 foot boat unless you paddle. Dunno if this'll help .... 110 lbs of thrust (measured static bollard pull) is coincidently exactly what the larger Seagull engines (4:1 reduction, 5-bladed 11" prop) will produce. They will move workboats/ pontoons of the size you describe, but only under the calmest of conditions. Colin| 10936|10899|2006-04-29 04:01:29|Jon & Wanda(Tink)|Re: electric drive on BS 26|There is a guy here in Portland with a cabin boat useing a E-Tek in olace of a gas on a 25 HP outboard and dose fine. Check out the Yahoo electric boat group there are a lot of sail boats running E-Tek. With the torque they turn bigger props per HP with sinple belt reduction. Motor is lighter transmision is a switch batteries ballest and a bigger higher pich prop. Overall it is heavier but replacing some of the keel lead with batterie lead and getting rid of the heavy motor the ballence is still there. Jon --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Alex Christie wrote: > > The plastic trolling motors have very small props -- a large three- blade prop combined with a briggs and stratton eTek electric motor (8hp I think) should provide a lot of muscle on the other hand. Battery weight? Keep it low and consider it ballast. It isn't a case of not being able to move the boat, so much as how far (range) one can do it before petering out. The people Brent met with the electric drive were content with their 20 nautical mile powering ability, as they sail as often as possible. I suspect they were using a minimal complement of batteries and were ok with that. For some people that like to motor a lot (I see sailboats all summer long up and down the coast powering while there is a perfect favourable wind, their sails bagged, bound and gagged -- go figure), it wouldn't work. They should build an origami trawler and stop dragging keels through the water -- they'll save some fuel :-) > > Alex > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Michael Casling > To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Friday, April 28, 2006 8:28 PM > Subject: Re: [origamiboats] Re: electric drive on BS 26 > > > Good theory. Have you used an electric motor ? > The propellors are pastic so they are not expecting much in the way of thrust. > Please anyone, bolt an electric motor on a boat, any boat and tell me if you think they have enough umph to move a 36 foot sailboat. I will stick with my previous statement that a two hp OBM will have more thrust and keep on thrusting much longer. And I say that without having tried the newer more powerfull electric motors. Also consider the weight of the batteries. > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > | 10937|10899|2006-04-29 06:46:03|cirejay|Re: electric drive on BS 26|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Jon & Wanda(Tink)" wrote: > > There is a guy here in Portland with a cabin boat useing a E-Tek in > olace of a gas on a 25 HP outboard and dose fine. Check out the Yahoo > electric boat group there are a lot of sail boats running E-Tek. With > the torque they turn bigger props per HP with sinple belt reduction. You're right and Myles' boat/barge and E-Tek is great and he is a fantastic source of good, usable information. BUT, we were not talking about E-Teks and bigger props, we were talking about a '110'# thrust trolling motor with a puny, little, plastic, prop on a BS 26. I'll stick to my original comments. I am a huge proponent of electric drive, done right. eric S/V Nebaras| 10938|10899|2006-04-29 13:06:48|David A. Frantz|Re: electric drive on BS 26|Since I've had a bit of experience with electric motors I will respond a bit. First; yes a electric motor will move a boat very well indeed. This is what propels submarines, and most cruise ships of recent build. Check out ABB's web site for big electric motors. As for the two horsepower outboard motor well I can make a very clear statement on that in that it will have a very small operating range where it will develop any power of significance. A NEMA rated two horsepower motor will give the same performance when run at its rated speed as the out board will. Couple the electric motor to the proper sized screw and it will give respectable performance over a far wider range of speeds then will the internal combustion (IC) motor. Now if our idea of motor usage is to just run it flat out then you will not see all the advantages of an electic motor but at rated horspower you should see the same performance. Outside of rated horsepower the electric motor will outshine the outboard by a long shot. At this point we are not discussing wether you have the horsepower required to move the boat. As to the operating range yep a gas powered machne does have advantages over a battery driven device there is no disagreement there. Batteries however are only one way to drive an electric motor. Gensets, windmills and solar arrays are all possible on a modest sail boat. At the two Horspower level you might be able to generate as much power as you are using with solar arrays and windmills. So the potential for an electric is unlimited operation. An electic is the only option if you run out of gas. Now as to moving a 36 foot saiboat I'm sure somebody here can tell us what the minimal reccomended horsepower would be. Personally I don't know. But lets say it is twenty horsepower. Take an electic motor of twenty horspower and put it up agianst a 20 horspower desiel and you should find that the electic gives better performance. Even when the diesel is operating at maxiumum speed and power. The first thing that happens is that you loose a bit of performance in the IC's motors gear box. So you are not getting all that power to the screws shaft in the first place. The second issue is that the diesels significant power range is limited and at very low speeds is for the most part nill. Thus the need for a gear box in the first place. An electric motor can either be direct drive or a single reduction drive so is already more efficent than the IC motor. As to wieght, yes the batteries weigh a bit but that weight is offest some by the loss of the engine, and its fuel supply. Now as to motors and horspower, there is of recent times the reality that many manufactures are bieng less than honest when advertising the horse power of electic motors. The worst examples of these are air compressors and home vacuums. But this also applies to many imported products especially chinese machine tools. To be honest I haven't looke into the trolling motors so I can't say what is up with them but it does look like honesty has gone out the window with them also. At least from what I've seen in this thread. As somebody has already pointed out a horsepower is 740 watts of output and should not be misconsrued to be power in. Power in is always more than power out, unless you subscribe to the above unity power concept and the associated nut cases. NEMA ratings on motor assure you that the motor can produce that horse power in a contimous manner forever or until the bearings fail in the motor. There are issues related to those ratings as things like start and stop cycles affect heat build up in the motor as does low speed operation. There are however ways to control that heat at low speed and motors can be rated for contious torque from zero up to their rated RPM. Newer motot technologies that you see being marketed to the marine world are very intersting indeed. As long as they are being honest about the ratings they should perform very well in a sailboat. So far the few comments that I've read seem to support the technology. Thanks Dave Michael Casling wrote: > Good theory. Have you used an electric motor ? > The propellors are pastic so they are not expecting much in the way of > thrust. > Please anyone, bolt an electric motor on a boat, any boat and tell me > if you think they have enough umph to move a 36 foot sailboat. I will > stick with my previous statement that a two hp OBM will have more > thrust and keep on thrusting much longer. And I say that without > having tried the newer more powerfull electric motors. Also consider > the weight of the batteries. > > Michael > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Jon & Wanda(Tink) > To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Friday, April 28, 2006 4:35 PM > Subject: [origamiboats] Re: electric drive on BS 26 > > > The reating of a gas motor is at its optimal RPM for HP at lower RPM > it will not have the Hp or torque. a electric motor will be a t > almost full torque at 10 RPM with HP and RPM determend by Voltage and > amprage input. > > Jon > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > SPONSORED LINKS > British columbia canada > > Vancouver island > > Yacht > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > * Visit your group "origamiboats > " on the web. > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > Service . > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > | 10939|10918|2006-04-29 16:53:21|brentswain38|Re: Shining the rails|While it may not be ideal, an angle grinder works fine with the brillo discs. Best avoid stainless that is so light that you have to worry about grinding thru. If it's that light it's too light. Sch 40 is much better. Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Michael" wrote: > > First piece of advice is do not use an angle grinder. The speed of > these tools is not suited to buffing and polishing of stainless. Use > a variable speed angle polisher with a good, very flexible backing pad. > > Graduating the disc grit from say 220 down to really fine 340 or so > will help you work on rough spots. Start the polisher up with the > disc alreasdy resting on the work with very low rpm's to avoid edge > marks from the disc. > > When you have all the "excess" tig work out of the joint areas, you > are ready for polishing pastes. Cloth buffing wheels in the same > polisher with graduated pastes are the way to go. Excessive scratches > from 3M type pads will work out of the piece easily with some > diligence to the graduated grit process. > > Heat generated by overexuberant polishing *will* deform thin 316 > tubing, so go easy. > > When you get it all even and bright, best to wrap it in Tyvek or > similar to prevent contamination and scratching. Any nearby work > (grinding, cutting, welding) of ferrous material will quickly > contaminate the surface imperfections of 316 to the point where it > will "rust"... really the ferrous stuff that is oxidizing. > > I absolutely hate polishing stainless... have fun! > > Michael Burton, > Sydney, BC > | 10940|9840|2006-04-30 09:52:02|tazmannusa|BS 26|Hello All On the rear cabin roof I have about an inch overhang on the sides and about two inches on the front and I like the looks that way, what I need to do is protect the edges somehow and what I was thinking was to use 1/4" solid rod and weld it flush all around, it can only be welded from the top. anybody have any better idea's or is that about the only option? Thanks Tom| 10941|10899|2006-04-30 13:55:10|Henri Naths|Re: electric drive on BS 26|Hi Michel, True. But if you consider the efficiencies are starting to out weight the deficiencies.Eg... Etec motors, lithium ion batteries, solar/ wind/ mico diesel turbine/ fuelcell/ wave action/ tide action/ current(river) regen. options should all be factored in as per rising cost / availability of fossil fuel H. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Casling" To: Sent: Friday, April 28, 2006 9:28 PM Subject: Re: [origamiboats] Re: electric drive on BS 26 > Good theory. Have you used an electric motor ? > The propellors are pastic so they are not expecting much in the way of > thrust. > Please anyone, bolt an electric motor on a boat, any boat and tell me if > you think they have enough umph to move a 36 foot sailboat. I will stick > with my previous statement that a two hp OBM will have more thrust and > keep on thrusting much longer. And I say that without having tried the > newer more powerfull electric motors. Also consider the weight of the > batteries. > > Michael > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Jon & Wanda(Tink) > To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Friday, April 28, 2006 4:35 PM > Subject: [origamiboats] Re: electric drive on BS 26 > > > The reating of a gas motor is at its optimal RPM for HP at lower RPM > it will not have the Hp or torque. a electric motor will be a t > almost full torque at 10 RPM with HP and RPM determend by Voltage and > amprage input. > > Jon > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > | 10942|10899|2006-04-30 13:56:10|Henri Naths|Re: electric drive on BS 26|>The 3 HP was to giving refferance to the size of gas outboard it was equal to in the days before as now when people didn't under stand E-HP is different ther G-HP. The 12VDC could have been only a 3/4 E-hp and no one would have bought that. The 101# thrust may be only2 E-HP and have the power if a 10 G-HP trowling motor. In those terms what do you think the uninformed would doif they didn't know what Bass fisherman where doing. 10 HP on the bow LOL and saved a bundel on a used one ROFLOL Jon Hi Jon, Please translate for the uninformed... ..e-hp ....g-hp?? roflol?? thanks. H. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jon & Wanda(Tink)" To: Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2006 9:30 PM Subject: [origamiboats] Re: electric drive on BS 26 > The 3 HP was to giving refferance to the size of gas outboard it was > equal to in the days before as now when people didn't under stand E-HP > is different ther G-HP. The 12VDC could have been only a 3/4 E-hp and > no one would have bought that. The 101# thrust may be only2 E-HP and > have the power if a 10 G-HP trowling motor. In those terms what do you > think the uninformed would doif they didn't know what Bass fisherman > where doing. 10 HP on the bow LOL and saved a bundel on a used one > ROFLOL > > Jon > > It's a 101 pounds of thrust , 46 Amp , 36 volt. So far the >> charts I have read to figure what size electric motor to buy say > 7000 pound >> boat for the 101# thrust, strange that it would be less than 2 HP. > About 10 >> years ago I had one on my fishing boat that was called a minn kota 3 > HP and >> it operated on 12 volt. >> Tom > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > | 10943|9840|2006-04-30 14:59:37|edward_stoneuk|Re: BS 26|Tom, To protect the edge of the steel you could use plastic grommet 'U' strip. It just pushes on although super glue might be necessary on tight bends. I am really impressed with the speed you are building yout boat. And I like the bimini. Regards, Ted| 10944|10899|2006-04-30 15:29:15|Jon & Wanda(Tink)|Re: electric drive on BS 26|G-hp is the way gas motors are rated and E-HP is the way that electric motors are rated. As stated in another post there are a lot of games as to how motors are rated today. Becouse of the bog difference in torque in gas and electric it is comen to put a 8HP Etec electric on a 25 HP gas outboard and have more weal power. It is aples and oranges put the performance curves are the real way to compair. 25hp E-HP will run a S-10 PU nicely but if you went to buy one and didn't understand the difference you wouldn't buy it thinking it had no power. I need 250HP in my truck ROTFLOL (Rolling on the floor laughing out loud) JON --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Henri Naths" wrote: > > >The 3 HP was to giving refferance to the size of gas outboard it was > equal to in the days before as now when people didn't under stand E- HP > is different ther G-HP. The 12VDC could have been only a 3/4 E-hp and > no one would have bought that. The 101# thrust may be only2 E-HP and > have the power if a 10 G-HP trowling motor. In those terms what do you > think the uninformed would doif they didn't know what Bass fisherman > where doing. 10 HP on the bow LOL and saved a bundel on a used one > ROFLOL > > Jon > > Hi Jon, > Please translate for the uninformed... ..e-hp ....g-hp?? roflol?? > thanks. > H. | 10945|10945|2006-04-30 15:38:39|jericoera|Neat metal cutting attachment for torch!!|Neat metal cutting attachment!!! I phoned Mainland Welders down in Surrey to check if they could get me a stepped tip like some of the metal boat builders are using in the UK. They do in fact have the ability to get them so I ordered one. It is a stepped nozzle and functions like a drag tip. It is made for cutting sheet metal but you can cut considerably thicker than what it is rated for from what I hear. Its a dandy thing to have and I think if i remember its about $35-$40 for the nozzle head. Carl McIntosh| 10946|10899|2006-04-30 17:18:32|kendall|Re: electric drive on BS 26|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Henri Naths" wrote: > > Hi Michel, > True. But if you consider the efficiencies are starting to out weight the > deficiencies.Eg... Etec motors, lithium ion batteries, solar/ wind/ mico > diesel turbine/ fuelcell/ wave action/ tide action/ current(river) regen. > options should all be factored in as per rising cost / availability of > fossil fuel > H. http://www.mindspring.com/~jimkerr1/sebc&t.htm been interested in electric power for a while, and did a bit of searching, some of the sites I've found provide contradictory information, The one listed above equates 1 horse to a 65lb thrust submersible motor. My personal outlook is that I'd not want to have electric without a huge power reserve if I had to claw off a lee shore during a blow. Ken.| 10947|10947|2006-04-30 19:03:28|tazmannusa|posting|Is it just me or is there a problem posting messages I have some that must have went to computer heaven Tom| 10948|9840|2006-04-30 21:58:25|tom|Re: BS 26|Thanks Ted Thats not a bad idea automotive door trim glued on sure a lot easyer than trying to weld 1/4" rod on. Were jumping from winter to summer here and the steel gets to hot to sit on so my $20 bimini sure helps. Workin on the bow roller assy. today , got about 5 hours in it allready and just got it ready to weld in. Hows it going on yours? Tom ----- Original Message ----- From: "edward_stoneuk" To: Sent: Sunday, April 30, 2006 11:59 AM Subject: [origamiboats] Re: BS 26 > Tom, > > To protect the edge of the steel you could use plastic grommet 'U' > strip. It just pushes on although super glue might be necessary on > tight bends. I am really impressed with the speed you are building > yout boat. And I like the bimini. > > Regards, > Ted > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > | 10949|10945|2006-04-30 22:17:06|tom|Re: Neat metal cutting attachment for torch!!|Hey Carl Ive had one for years and only used it a couple times, I found I got more heat distirtion with it than useing a 000 tip Tom ----- Original Message ----- From: "jericoera" To: Sent: Sunday, April 30, 2006 12:38 PM Subject: [origamiboats] Neat metal cutting attachment for torch!! > Neat metal cutting attachment!!! > > I phoned Mainland Welders down in Surrey to check if they could get me > a stepped tip like some of the metal boat builders are using in the UK. > > They do in fact have the ability to get them so I ordered one. It is a > stepped nozzle and functions like a drag tip. > > It is made for cutting sheet metal but you can cut considerably > thicker than what it is rated for from what I hear. Its a dandy thing > to have and I think if i remember its about $35-$40 for the nozzle > head. > > Carl McIntosh > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > | 10950|9840|2006-05-01 04:24:56|kingsknight4life|Re: BS 26|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "tazmannusa" wrote: > > Hello All > On the rear cabin roof I have about an inch overhang on the sides and > about two inches on the front and I like the looks that way, what I > need to do is protect the edges somehow and what I was thinking was to > use 1/4" solid rod and weld it flush all around, it can only be welded > from the top. anybody have any better idea's or is that about the only > option? > Thanks > Tom > Hi Tom I have stainless rod protecting the trim on my pilothouse and I'm pretty sure it's only welded on top. I'll double check tomorrow. You can always tack weld it underneath if you're worried, though. Rowland| 10951|9840|2006-05-01 13:47:11|brentswain38|Re: BS 26|Trim off the overhang on the sides and save yourself a maintenance headache. It's hard to stop paint from pulling away from such a sharp angle and hard to get at once it does.Trim the corner with sch 40 ss pipe to stop the chipping on corners problem there, and to make the cabintop into a rain catchement option. Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "kingsknight4life" wrote: > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "tazmannusa" > wrote: > > > > Hello All > > On the rear cabin roof I have about an inch overhang on the sides > and > > about two inches on the front and I like the looks that way, what > I > > need to do is protect the edges somehow and what I was thinking > was to > > use 1/4" solid rod and weld it flush all around, it can only be > welded > > from the top. anybody have any better idea's or is that about the > only > > option? > > Thanks > > Tom > > > Hi Tom > > I have stainless rod protecting the trim on my pilothouse and I'm > pretty sure it's only welded on top. I'll double check tomorrow. You > can always tack weld it underneath if you're worried, though. > Rowland > | 10952|9840|2006-05-01 16:57:25|edward_stoneuk|Re: BS 26|Tom, Brent has a point about keeping paint on the edges. Some auto trim may have spring steel insides, which will rust. I was thinking of the grommet strip that is used around cable openings in control enclosures. I have put some photos on Fancies Fly on origamiboat 2. I cannot get into our usual album. I have put the engine in although it isn't plumbed in yet. Fiona and I are mocking up the interior using pallet wood and packing cases. It is suprising how an inch or too can make a lot of difference in hitting ones head or not. Probably make some difference to the Feng Shui too. Regards, Ted| 10953|10899|2006-05-02 00:20:30|Michael Casling|Re: electric drive on BS 26|The original post was about a Minn Kota electric motor, which are listed as trolling motors. They are not the motors they use in trains or tolly buses or submarines, or the new version of diesel generator electric drives that are being talked about. Nigel Calder has an article in Ocean Navigator for anyone wanting to read about it. He is also planning on getting a boat with the new technolgy. But that was not the subject matter of the thread to which I was responding. A look at Minn Kota's site shows the largest electric trolling motor as producing two horsepower using 48 volts with a run time of two hours. I am suggesting that a two hp gas motor will give better performance as it weighs less and will run longer. If anyone wants to move their boat with two horsepower that is fine with me, but I will not be doing it. Michael ----- Original Message ----- From: David A. Frantz To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, April 29, 2006 10:01 AM Subject: Re: [origamiboats] Re: electric drive on BS 26 Since I've had a bit of experience with electric motors I will respond a bit. First; yes a electric motor will move a boat very well indeed. This is what propels submarines, and most cruise ships of recent build. Check out ABB's web site for big electric motors. As for the two horsepower outboard motor well I can make a very clear statement on that in that it will have a very small operating range where it will develop any power of significance. A NEMA rated two horsepower motor will give the same performance when run at its rated speed as the out board will. Couple the electric motor to the proper sized screw and it will give respectable performance over a far wider range of speeds then will the internal combustion (IC) motor. Now if our idea of motor usage is to just run it flat out then you will not see all the advantages of an electic motor but at rated horspower you should see the same performance. Outside of rated horsepower the electric motor will outshine the outboard by a long shot. At this point we are not discussing wether you have the horsepower required to move the boat. As to the operating range yep a gas powered machne does have advantages over a battery driven device there is no disagreement there. Batteries however are only one way to drive an electric motor. Gensets, windmills and solar arrays are all possible on a modest sail boat. At the two Horspower level you might be able to generate as much power as you are using with solar arrays and windmills. So the potential for an electric is unlimited operation. An electic is the only option if you run out of gas. Now as to moving a 36 foot saiboat I'm sure somebody here can tell us what the minimal reccomended horsepower would be. Personally I don't know. But lets say it is twenty horsepower. Take an electic motor of twenty horspower and put it up agianst a 20 horspower desiel and you should find that the electic gives better performance. Even when the diesel is operating at maxiumum speed and power. The first thing that happens is that you loose a bit of performance in the IC's motors gear box. So you are not getting all that power to the screws shaft in the first place. The second issue is that the diesels significant power range is limited and at very low speeds is for the most part nill. Thus the need for a gear box in the first place. An electric motor can either be direct drive or a single reduction drive so is already more efficent than the IC motor. As to wieght, yes the batteries weigh a bit but that weight is offest some by the loss of the engine, and its fuel supply. Now as to motors and horspower, there is of recent times the reality that many manufactures are bieng less than honest when advertising the horse power of electic motors. The worst examples of these are air compressors and home vacuums. But this also applies to many imported products especially chinese machine tools. To be honest I haven't looke into the trolling motors so I can't say what is up with them but it does look like honesty has gone out the window with them also. At least from what I've seen in this thread. As somebody has already pointed out a horsepower is 740 watts of output and should not be misconsrued to be power in. Power in is always more than power out, unless you subscribe to the above unity power concept and the associated nut cases. NEMA ratings on motor assure you that the motor can produce that horse power in a contimous manner forever or until the bearings fail in the motor. There are issues related to those ratings as things like start and stop cycles affect heat build up in the motor as does low speed operation. There are however ways to control that heat at low speed and motors can be rated for contious torque from zero up to their rated RPM. Newer motot technologies that you see being marketed to the marine world are very intersting indeed. As long as they are being honest about the ratings they should perform very well in a sailboat. So far the few comments that I've read seem to support the technology. Thanks Dave Michael Casling wrote: > Good theory. Have you used an electric motor ? > The propellors are pastic so they are not expecting much in the way of > thrust. > Please anyone, bolt an electric motor on a boat, any boat and tell me > if you think they have enough umph to move a 36 foot sailboat. I will > stick with my previous statement that a two hp OBM will have more > thrust and keep on thrusting much longer. And I say that without > having tried the newer more powerfull electric motors. Also consider > the weight of the batteries. > > Michael > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Jon & Wanda(Tink) > To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Friday, April 28, 2006 4:35 PM > Subject: [origamiboats] Re: electric drive on BS 26 > > > The reating of a gas motor is at its optimal RPM for HP at lower RPM > it will not have the Hp or torque. a electric motor will be a t > almost full torque at 10 RPM with HP and RPM determend by Voltage and > amprage input. > > Jon > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > SPONSORED LINKS > British columbia canada > > Vancouver island > > Yacht > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > * Visit your group "origamiboats > " on the web. > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > Service . > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com SPONSORED LINKS British columbia canada Vancouver island Yacht ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS a.. Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web. b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 10954|10899|2006-05-02 00:21:56|Michael Casling|Re: electric drive on BS 26|New subject as opposed to the beginning of this thread. For me I will still stay with the old style diesel as the new electronic controlled units could be a problem to fix. There is definately a trend in that direction for boats that are using gensets. Michael ----- Original Message ----- From: Henri Naths To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, April 30, 2006 9:58 AM Subject: Re: [origamiboats] Re: electric drive on BS 26 Hi Michel, True. But if you consider the efficiencies are starting to out weight the deficiencies.Eg... Etec motors, lithium ion batteries, solar/ wind/ mico diesel turbine/ fuelcell/ wave action/ tide action/ current(river) regen. options should all be factored in as per rising cost / availability of fossil fuel H. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 10955|10899|2006-05-02 01:58:00|Jon & Wanda(Tink)|Re: electric drive on BS 26|Actualy there where electric cars and boats before diesel so we where taking a step back with new fangeld types of electric motors and systems. As far as use of one to the other use what makes you happy but let others use what makes them happy. No need to say it has to be just one way only. I personaly think all props should have a kort tube so they waste less fuel. There are other small E-motors that put out much more then 2HP on 48VDC and all Electric motors respond faster with more thrust per HP then gas or diesel. If the smell of diesel is like napalm in the morn to you go with it. Jon --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Michael Casling wrote: > > New subject as opposed to the beginning of this thread. > For me I will still stay with the old style diesel as the new electronic controlled units could be a problem to fix. > There is definately a trend in that direction for boats that are using gensets. > > Michael > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Henri Naths > To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Sunday, April 30, 2006 9:58 AM > Subject: Re: [origamiboats] Re: electric drive on BS 26 > > > Hi Michel, > True. But if you consider the efficiencies are starting to out weight the > deficiencies.Eg... Etec motors, lithium ion batteries, solar/ wind/ mico > diesel turbine/ fuelcell/ wave action/ tide action/ current (river) regen. > options should all be factored in as per rising cost / availability of > fossil fuel > H. > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > | 10956|9840|2006-05-02 03:07:25|tom|Re: BS 26|Ted You're boats looking good, I really like the stainless railing, turned out nice. I was going to go stainless but no one around here deals in the 316 grade just the 304 and the 304 I was quoted $3.20 a foot for 3/4" pipe so I said the heck with that and went galvanized, not as pretty but functional. Brent is right would be a lot simpler just to cut the over hang off but I already put the grab rails on the outside edge somewhat lined up with the front ones and enough that if you fall against the cabin side you hit the grab rail so I think I will leave them that way and put the strip you mentioned around it, should be ok. You're not kidding about an inch or two for headroom , I've already decided if I build another boat its going to be big enough that I have to jump to hit my head. I haven't started on the interior yet but I have done a little measuring to see what would fit and its going to be interesting. At least I still have while before tackling that part. Tom ----- Original Message ----- From: "edward_stoneuk" To: Sent: Monday, May 01, 2006 1:55 PM Subject: [origamiboats] Re: BS 26 > Tom, > Brent has a point about keeping paint on the edges. Some auto trim > may have spring steel insides, which will rust. I was thinking of the > grommet strip that is used around cable openings in control enclosures. > I have put some photos on Fancies Fly on origamiboat 2. I cannot get > into our usual album. I have put the engine in although it isn't > plumbed in yet. Fiona and I are mocking up the interior using pallet > wood and packing cases. It is suprising how an inch or too can make a > lot of difference in hitting ones head or not. Probably make some > difference to the Feng Shui too. > Regards, > Ted > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > | 10957|10899|2006-05-02 14:22:51|brentswain38|Re: electric drive on BS 26|I think we are seriously underestimating the health dammage caused by exhuast fumes . We laugh at the Romans for using lead salts for sweetening their food. Maybe future generations will laugh at us for having breathed so much exhuast. Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Jon & Wanda(Tink)" wrote: > > Actualy there where electric cars and boats before diesel so we where > taking a step back with new fangeld types of electric motors and > systems. As far as use of one to the other use what makes you happy > but let others use what makes them happy. No need to say it has to be > just one way only. I personaly think all props should have a kort > tube so they waste less fuel. There are other small E-motors that put > out much more then 2HP on 48VDC and all Electric motors respond > faster with more thrust per HP then gas or diesel. If the smell of > diesel is like napalm in the morn to you go with it. > > Jon > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Michael Casling > wrote: > > > > New subject as opposed to the beginning of this thread. > > For me I will still stay with the old style diesel as the new > electronic controlled units could be a problem to fix. > > There is definately a trend in that direction for boats that are > using gensets. > > > > Michael > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Henri Naths > > To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Sunday, April 30, 2006 9:58 AM > > Subject: Re: [origamiboats] Re: electric drive on BS 26 > > > > > > Hi Michel, > > True. But if you consider the efficiencies are starting to out > weight the > > deficiencies.Eg... Etec motors, lithium ion batteries, solar/ > wind/ mico > > diesel turbine/ fuelcell/ wave action/ tide action/ current > (river) regen. > > options should all be factored in as per rising cost / > availability of > > fossil fuel > > H. > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > | 10958|10899|2006-05-02 17:36:47|cirejay|Re: electric drive on BS 26|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "brentswain38" wrote: > > I think we are seriously underestimating the health dammage caused by > exhuast fumes . We laugh at the Romans for using lead salts for > sweetening their food. Maybe future generations will laugh at us for > having breathed so much exhuast. I was listening to an interview with Pete Seager recently and his message of 'hope' was, "There is no hope, I could be wrong". Let us hope that there are future generations around to laugh at us. eric S/V Nebaras| 10959|10959|2006-05-03 00:40:43|tazmannusa|Electric Drive on the BS 26|Well I Emailed minn kota directly this evening with some questions on the 101 pounds of thrust motors and hopefully they will respond with some truth about it and recomendations. If I could get 4 knots with around 4 to 5 hour runtime with it I would be happy but it probably wont. I called a Yanmar dealer just for kicks to see what it would cost to go diesel and I wasnt to happy with what I found out, the only one they say that they make that could run dry exhaust and skeg cooling is the 9 HP and its 9HP at 3600rpm at the crank and 8HP at 3400rpm continouse at the crank so by the time it goes threw trany to prop it would be around 7HP at a price of a little under $7000 US. That seem like a lot for little to me and 7HP I think you would have to run it wide open to hit hull speed of 6 knots. Tom| 10960|10959|2006-05-03 08:44:25|Carl Anderson|Re: Electric Drive on the BS 26|Tom, I have been looking over information about diesel engines from BETA. Although I'm researching for a BS36 and higher power requirements, they seem to have a full line of engines and the pricing is considerably less than Yanmar. Also the engines that they sell can be set up for skeg cooling and dry exhaust and will COST LESS when done so. My question for the group is what does anyone here know about BETA marine engines? Seems that they are a marinized Kubota diesel. I've talked to the factory rep in North Carolina and he was very well informed about boats using skeg/keel cooling and running dry exhaust. He even sent me literature showing exactly that configuration! Seems that they use the BETA a lot on the canal boats in Europe. Any additional info from the group would be helpful. Carl A. tazmannusa wrote: > Well I Emailed minn kota directly this evening with some questions on > the 101 pounds of thrust motors and hopefully they will respond with > some truth about it and recomendations. If I could get 4 knots with > around 4 to 5 hour runtime with it I would be happy but it probably > wont. > I called a Yanmar dealer just for kicks to see what it would cost to > go diesel and I wasnt to happy with what I found out, the only one > they say that they make that could run dry exhaust and skeg cooling is > the 9 HP and its 9HP at 3600rpm at the crank and 8HP at 3400rpm > continouse at the crank so by the time it goes threw trany to prop it > would be around 7HP at a price of a little under $7000 US. That seem > like a lot for little to me and 7HP I think you would have to run it > wide open to hit hull speed of 6 knots. > Tom > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > SPONSORED LINKS > British columbia canada > > Vancouver island > > Yacht > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > * Visit your group "origamiboats > " on the web. > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > Service . > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > | 10961|10959|2006-05-03 10:52:39|Michael Casling|Re: Electric Drive on the BS 26|Boats around 28 feet and up to about 7500 pounds can reach hull speed or close to it with only about 4 or 5 horespower, but that is in smooth water. You will need more power for waves and wind, but there are quite a few boats in this size range that use 9 hp diesels. No question there is more giddyup from a 15 hp motor. Getting to a speed very close to hull speed is fairly easy, it is the last little bit that uses all the power. I can motor at 6.5 knots but that taps out the diesel, if I back off to 6 or 5 3/4 the power reqired seems to be cut in about half. I have been sailing on a 4000 pound 28 foot boat and it has the 7hp single Buhk which is fine. There is also a heavy Windward 28 with a single Volvo in it that does okay. Michael ----- Original Message ----- From: tazmannusa To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, May 02, 2006 9:40 PM Subject: [origamiboats] Electric Drive on the BS 26 Well I Emailed minn kota directly this evening with some questions on the 101 pounds of thrust motors and hopefully they will respond with some truth about it and recomendations. If I could get 4 knots with around 4 to 5 hour runtime with it I would be happy but it probably wont. I called a Yanmar dealer just for kicks to see what it would cost to go diesel and I wasnt to happy with what I found out, the only one they say that they make that could run dry exhaust and skeg cooling is the 9 HP and its 9HP at 3600rpm at the crank and 8HP at 3400rpm continouse at the crank so by the time it goes threw trany to prop it would be around 7HP at a price of a little under $7000 US. That seem like a lot for little to me and 7HP I think you would have to run it wide open to hit hull speed of 6 knots. Tom To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com SPONSORED LINKS British columbia canada Vancouver island Yacht ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS a.. Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web. b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 10962|10959|2006-05-04 10:26:57|khooper_fboats|Re: Electric Drive on the BS 26|Hi Carl, I know less than anybody about this I suppose but I'm wondering, if you're the one building the cooling system and the exhaust system, it's a stock Kubota dry exhaust manifold (is that correct), then what is it that BETA does for you? Perhaps they've had some deeper oil pans stamped out, maybe they're putting the starter on top or something where you can reach it better? Because 36-horse Kubotas in running-takeout condition change hands for $800-850, these are very common engines because they're widely used in lawn and construction equipment. Is it worth it to go buying a new one from BETA when you're the one doing most of the marinizing anyway? I bet BETA are a lot more than $850 although I don't know for sure. --Ken --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Carl Anderson wrote: > > Tom, > > I have been looking over information about diesel engines from BETA. > Although I'm researching for a BS36 and higher power requirements, they > seem to have a full line of engines and the pricing is considerably less > than Yanmar. Also the engines that they sell can be set up for skeg > cooling and dry exhaust and will COST LESS when done so. > > My question for the group is what does anyone here know about BETA > marine engines? Seems that they are a marinized Kubota diesel. I've > talked to the factory rep in North Carolina and he was very well > informed about boats using skeg/keel cooling and running dry exhaust. > He even sent me literature showing exactly that configuration! Seems > that they use the BETA a lot on the canal boats in Europe. > > Any additional info from the group would be helpful. | 10963|10963|2006-05-04 20:25:46|Alex|Sailing day|Hey folks, The main photo on the group here now shows the twin-keeled BS36 I was out on two days ago for a fantastic sail on Baynes Sound from Comox Harbour to Tree Island, hosted by Steve, Captain of the centre- cockpit Silas Crosby. We boomed along at 7.5 knots with one reef in the main on a broad reach, then beat back north again against 28 knot winds sustained, with higher gusts on top. Have a look at the Silas Crosby album to see photos of angle of heel while Steve measured those 28 knot winds with his pocket wind-speed measuring thing (anemometer?). The ride was comfortable the whole way, and my 12 year old daughter enjoyed roaming about on the boat even while it was heeled under a near full press of sail. That's stiff enough for me, I'd say. The boat behaved exactly as Steve described it to me before: The boat heels over then stays solid with an easy motion. Several times on certain tacks the boat sailed itself, hands off the tiller -- I very nicely balanced rig on this craft, even under inner foresail and reefed main. I could easily imagine an offshore venture in my own boat, which will be rigged the same when it hits the water. I got an opportunity to get some good footage of the boat under sail, which I'll put in my next film showing the boats in use. One part I made sure to film was the water as it left the stern. The wake behind this boat at hull speed was virtually flat -- virtually no energy is being wasted generating waves from this hull. I guess we could run the hull-form through a battery of virtual tests to analyze it by computer, but one look at the flat wake is enough for me. I took some mpeg footage of that wake with my digital camera and will see if I can put that in the files section so you can see for yourself! Steve has a 4 cylinder Isuzu diesel onboard for his auxiliary power. It is secured inside an insulated box and almost silent under way, with jacketed exhaust lines. It's a dry exhaust, muffled by a forklift muffler. I was stunned to find out that Steve never puts his exterior exhaust elbow under water, it stays up in the air at all times! A REAL dry exhaust! Amazingly quiet and maintenance free. Makes you look at wet exhaust in a different light. Again, nothing like seeing the dry exhaust system functioning before your eyes to believe it. 12 years in use, said Steve, and no problems. Needless to say, after that inspiring sail, I got back to work on my own boat with renewed vigor after that! Brent and I welded in the last of the keel webs, and now I'm going in to finish welding down the water tank today. It's shaping up! Alex| 10964|10959|2006-05-04 21:07:45|tom|Re: Electric Drive on the BS 26|Hello Carl I've seen beta marine on ebay selling some used drives other than that I don't know how good they are. I do know the Kubota tractors are pretty good, a lot of the dairys I work at run them because there cheap, simple and reliable. How well they would hold up in the marine environment I don't know but I would imagine with skeg cooling and dry exhaust the should be fine. This does bring up one question though, On a dry exhaust system do you still run a water cooled exhaust manifold? seems like you would need to because if you ran the stock dry manifold you would get a lot of heat in the engine compartment, especially if you're running it hard. Tom ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carl Anderson" To: Sent: Wednesday, May 03, 2006 5:43 AM Subject: Re: [origamiboats] Electric Drive on the BS 26 > Tom, > > I have been looking over information about diesel engines from BETA. > Although I'm researching for a BS36 and higher power requirements, they > seem to have a full line of engines and the pricing is considerably less > than Yanmar. Also the engines that they sell can be set up for skeg > cooling and dry exhaust and will COST LESS when done so. > > My question for the group is what does anyone here know about BETA > marine engines? Seems that they are a marinized Kubota diesel. I've > talked to the factory rep in North Carolina and he was very well > informed about boats using skeg/keel cooling and running dry exhaust. > He even sent me literature showing exactly that configuration! Seems > that they use the BETA a lot on the canal boats in Europe. > > Any additional info from the group would be helpful. > > Carl A. > > > tazmannusa wrote: >> Well I Emailed minn kota directly this evening with some questions on >> the 101 pounds of thrust motors and hopefully they will respond with >> some truth about it and recomendations. If I could get 4 knots with >> around 4 to 5 hour runtime with it I would be happy but it probably >> wont. >> I called a Yanmar dealer just for kicks to see what it would cost to >> go diesel and I wasnt to happy with what I found out, the only one >> they say that they make that could run dry exhaust and skeg cooling is >> the 9 HP and its 9HP at 3600rpm at the crank and 8HP at 3400rpm >> continouse at the crank so by the time it goes threw trany to prop it >> would be around 7HP at a price of a little under $7000 US. That seem >> like a lot for little to me and 7HP I think you would have to run it >> wide open to hit hull speed of 6 knots. >> Tom >> >> >> >> >> >> >> To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com >> To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: >> origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com >> >> >> >> SPONSORED LINKS >> British columbia canada >> >> Vancouver island >> >> Yacht >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS >> >> * Visit your group "origamiboats >> " on the web. >> >> * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >> origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com >> >> >> >> * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of >> Service . >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > | 10965|10963|2006-05-04 21:15:00|Alex|Re: Sailing day|You can see a short video clip of Silas Crosby under sail, taken from the top of the aft cabin, in the files section here, the file is called 'A Day Sail in Silas Crosby'. See another clip of the water leaving the trailing edge of the transom, called 'Analysis of wake' (very scientific), in same file section. There is also a very short MPEG clip in the files Group 2 of Brent rowing his dinghy to the dock with my kid aboard. Alex| 10966|10963|2006-05-04 21:54:51|tom|Re: Sailing day|Very nice Alex I enjoyed the clips and photos. Hope I can do the same on the 26 someday. Thankyou Tom ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alex" To: Sent: Thursday, May 04, 2006 6:14 PM Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Sailing day You can see a short video clip of Silas Crosby under sail, taken from the top of the aft cabin, in the files section here, the file is called 'A Day Sail in Silas Crosby'. See another clip of the water leaving the trailing edge of the transom, called 'Analysis of wake' (very scientific), in same file section. There is also a very short MPEG clip in the files Group 2 of Brent rowing his dinghy to the dock with my kid aboard. Alex To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links | 10967|10967|2006-05-05 00:18:06|tom|the scoop from minn kota|Minn Kota emailed me back yesterday with the info I requested They recommend at least 2 pounds of thrust for every 100 pounds so on the 26 with 6500 pound displacement I would need a minimum of 125 pounds of thrust. They also said There is no direct correlation of thrust and horsepower. So the sales guy that told me 17 pounds of thrust = a 1 Hp was full of bull. Some of the online dealers that sell these electric outboards have charts for the recommended thrust to boat weight say 101 pound thrust for a 7000 pound boat, Hmm I wonder where they got that info or do they just round it up by 2000 pounds. The 101 pound thrust is the largest they seem to make and its approx. 2.2 Hp and it has a 52" shaft length. I guess the only way to know for sure is clamp one on the transom and try it. I still have my 6 Hp Johnson that will fit in the lazerette in case I get in a pinch. One other option I'm looking at is I can buy a Nissan 9.8 hp outboard exlong 25" shaft with electric start and 7 amp charging system for about $2000 , cost about the same as the minn kota by the time its set up with battery banks ext. Tom [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]| 10968|10968|2006-05-05 09:50:52|Ken Hooper|Pictures of 40' Please|Does anybody have images of the interior of a Swain 40, I'm looking especially for pictures taken from the companionway aft, of quarter berths or whatever you've put back there. There are no good pictures of this in the Photos section of the Yahoo site. Trying to determine if it's feasible to build two small staterooms for children, one per side in this area. Thanks, --Ken| 10969|10959|2006-05-05 10:51:04|Carl Anderson|Re: Electric Drive on the BS 26|Ken, From what I can tell in their literature BETA puts on a watercooled exhaust manifold and associated plumbing, marine transmission & clutch, larger alternator, provides the "control panel", sets the engine up for either soft mounting feet or hard rails, and modifies the oil changing system so it is done from the top. There could be other things as well. As for cost, it is not very accurate to compare new to used pricing as I don't think that the used one comes with a 2000 hour warranty. If I go to the trouble to build a "new" boat the last thing that I'm doing is puting a tired old engine in it! I'm looking for reliability in what I build. That is why I've come to the BS36 design in the first place. Carl khooper_fboats wrote: > > Hi Carl, > > I know less than anybody about this I suppose but I'm wondering, if > you're the one building the cooling system and the exhaust system, > it's a stock Kubota dry exhaust manifold (is that correct), then what > is it that BETA does for you? Perhaps they've had some deeper oil pans > stamped out, maybe they're putting the starter on top or something > where you can reach it better? > > Because 36-horse Kubotas in running-takeout condition change hands for > $800-850, these are very common engines because they're widely used in > lawn and construction equipment. Is it worth it to go buying a new one > from BETA when you're the one doing most of the marinizing anyway? I > bet BETA are a lot more than $850 although I don't know for sure. > > --Ken > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Carl Anderson wrote: > > > > Tom, > > > > I have been looking over information about diesel engines from BETA. > > Although I'm researching for a BS36 and higher power requirements, they > > seem to have a full line of engines and the pricing is considerably > less > > than Yanmar. Also the engines that they sell can be set up for skeg > > cooling and dry exhaust and will COST LESS when done so. > > > > My question for the group is what does anyone here know about BETA > > marine engines? Seems that they are a marinized Kubota diesel. I've > > talked to the factory rep in North Carolina and he was very well > > informed about boats using skeg/keel cooling and running dry exhaust. > > He even sent me literature showing exactly that configuration! Seems > > that they use the BETA a lot on the canal boats in Europe. > > > > Any additional info from the group would be helpful. > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > SPONSORED LINKS > British columbia canada > > Vancouver island > > Yacht > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > * Visit your group "origamiboats > " on the web. > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > Service . > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > | 10970|10959|2006-05-05 11:33:32|Ken Hooper|Re: Electric Drive on the BS 26|Hi Carl, Those are all good points of course, if it's worth the money to you to have the marinizing done then go for it. Personally I'd rather do the rebuild up front so I know it's been done right, and so I know I can do it again in the field when I need to. After 2000 hours we'll both have used diesels with no warranty after all. In fact fifty miles offshore, a warranty becomes an academic excercise really. =^) I picked up a 50-horse Perkins with a spun main the other day for $127.50, too parsimonious to turn it down so my course is sort of set for me. Engine came out of a welder. That's getting rebuilt and going in the boat. I hope some of the good folks here will help me think out the marinizing because I'm pretty clueless. --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Carl Anderson wrote: > > Ken, > > From what I can tell in their literature BETA puts on a watercooled > exhaust manifold and associated plumbing, marine transmission & clutch, > larger alternator, provides the "control panel", sets the engine up for > either soft mounting feet or hard rails, and modifies the oil changing > system so it is done from the top. There could be other things as well. > > As for cost, it is not very accurate to compare new to used pricing as I > don't think that the used one comes with a 2000 hour warranty. > > If I go to the trouble to build a "new" boat the last thing that I'm > doing is puting a tired old engine in it! I'm looking for reliability > in what I build. That is why I've come to the BS36 design in the first > place. | 10971|10959|2006-05-05 20:55:00|kendall|Re: Electric Drive on the BS 26|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Ken Hooper" wrote: > > > Hi Carl, > > Those are all good points of course, if it's worth the money to you to > have the marinizing done then go for it. Personally I'd rather do the > rebuild up front so I know it's been done right, and so I know I can do > it again in the field when I need to. After 2000 hours we'll both have > used diesels with no warranty after all. In fact fifty miles offshore, a > warranty becomes an academic excercise really. =^) > > I picked up a 50-horse Perkins with a spun main the other day for > $127.50, too parsimonious to turn it down so my course is sort of set > for me. Engine came out of a welder. That's getting rebuilt and going in > the boat. I hope some of the good folks here will help me think out the > marinizing because I'm pretty clueless. > > always been my approach, a rebuild (by myself or trusted mechanic)is in my mind a much better engine than a new one, few if any manufacturers go through the trouble of properly seasoning a block anymore, and the best way to season a block is to run it. also, manufacturers generaly use lowest bidder for parts, when rebuilding I'm not restricted by a profit margin, so I can afford to use higher quality materials. ken.| 10972|10972|2006-05-06 12:25:52|ANDREW AIREY|Re: Digest Number 1535|not only that they expect the supplier to supply at,or below,cost and then hopefully make their money when they supply spares Krs Andy Airey > also, manufacturers generaly use lowest bidder for > parts, when > rebuilding I'm not restricted by a profit margin, so > I can afford to > use higher quality materials. > > ken. > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > ________________________________________________________________________ > > > To Post a message, send it to: > origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > ___________________________________________________________ NEW - Yahoo! 360 – Your one place to blog, create, publish and share! http://uk.360.yahoo.com| 10975|10975|2006-05-07 11:58:01|tom|Electric drive on BS 26|Hello All Found a better option than electric outboard, here's the link http://www.thunderstruck-ev.com/sailboatkit.htm The dc motor is supposed to be like the Etek and from what I found out the Etek has been discontinued. The price seem like its reasonable for the kit. Next week I will give them a call and get a little more info on it, would be nice if it generates power while sailing. at least with it inboard I can run a lot larger prop than the outboards. So far from what I found out there around 6 to 8 Hp continuous and 15 hp peak, if that's the right info it should be fine for the 26. Tom [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]| 10976|10968|2006-05-07 12:40:28|gschnell|Re: Pictures of 40' Please|Ken I have a BS40 under construction. The aft berth (that is what we are using the space for) is under the cockpit and behind the companionway stair. As such, the access is rather indirect (to the SB of the companionway stair) and headroom is limited. To address the dressing and undressing challenges, we have created a full-height (standing room) "changing-room" at the entrance to the aft-berth (the SB rear corner of the pilothouse). From there on in, one must stoop or crawl into a very large V-berth and sitting area.. I believe there is room for two independent sleeping areas under there, but access might have to be created from each side of the companionway stair, directly into each "stateroom". Kids love that kind of stuff. Adults are a little adverse to it. An alternative might be moving the companionway to one side of the pilothouse, but then you will have cockpit problems. I pondered this same situation for a long while and what I have done was the best solution my limited intelligence could conjure. To the best of my knowledge, I am the only BS40 under construction, but others may be planning one. Maybe someone else has a more creative solution. The space is quite large, hotizontally, but vertically limited. It will make a great "state room", but access is a challenge. It will be an even greater challenge at 80 years of age. Gord Ken Hooper wrote: > > > Does anybody have images of the interior of a Swain 40, I'm looking > especially for pictures taken from the companionway aft, of quarter > berths or whatever you've put back there. There are no good pictures > of > this in the Photos section of the Yahoo site. > > Trying to determine if it's feasible to build two small staterooms for > > children, one per side in this area. > > Thanks, > > --Ken > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > SPONSORED LINKS > British columbia canada Vancouver island Yacht > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > + Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web. > > + To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > + Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > Service. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]| 10977|10977|2006-05-07 19:15:08|sailwithjc|rub rail|what can i use for rub rail that wont break me| 10978|10968|2006-05-07 19:38:16|khooper_fboats|Re: Pictures of 40' Please|Hi Gord, How big is the "changing room"? Do you think it's feasible to have one on either side of the companionway? How far forward does it come, to the foot of the stairs? I suppose it could come past that a bit if necessary... A space like that would probably close in you me personally, you're right, but I think the kids would find it comforting and a lot of fun. --Ken --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, gschnell wrote: > > Ken > I have a BS40 under construction. The aft berth (that is what we are > using the space for) is under the cockpit and behind the companionway > stair. As such, the access is rather indirect (to the SB of the > companionway stair) and headroom is limited. To address the dressing and > undressing challenges, we have created a full-height (standing room) > "changing-room" at the entrance to the aft-berth (the SB rear corner of > the pilothouse). From there on in, one must stoop or crawl into a very > large V-berth and sitting area.. > I believe there is room for two independent sleeping areas under there, > but access might have to be created from each side of the companionway > stair, directly into each "stateroom". Kids love that kind of stuff. > Adults are a little adverse to it. An alternative might be moving the > companionway to one side of the pilothouse, but then you will have > cockpit problems. I pondered this same situation for a long while and > what I have done was the best solution my limited intelligence could > conjure. > To the best of my knowledge, I am the only BS40 under construction, but > others may be planning one. Maybe someone else has a more creative > solution. The space is quite large, hotizontally, but vertically > limited. > It will make a great "state room", but access is a challenge. It will be > an even greater challenge at 80 years of age. > Gord | 10979|10968|2006-05-07 20:39:56|gschnell|Re: Pictures of 40' Please|Ken The change room is about 18" wide (above deck level) and 45" below deck. It's about 40" long. The area under the deck will be a hanging locker for her ladyship's clothes. I have nothing worth hanging. I really don't think that it would be necessary to gave that area for kids under 10 or 12 yrs. They could dress in the existing headroom...maybe a common area between the two mini-staterooms. Gord khooper_fboats wrote: > > Hi Gord, > > How big is the "changing room"? Do you think it's feasible to have one > > on either side of the companionway? How far forward does it come, to > the foot of the stairs? I suppose it could come past that a bit if > necessary... > > A space like that would probably close in you me personally, you're > right, but I think the kids would find it comforting and a lot of fun. > > --Ken > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, gschnell wrote: > > > > Ken > > I have a BS40 under construction. The aft berth (that is what we are > > > using the space for) is under the cockpit and behind the > companionway > > stair. As such, the access is rather indirect (to the SB of the > > companionway stair) and headroom is limited. To address the dressing > and > > undressing challenges, we have created a full-height (standing room) > > > "changing-room" at the entrance to the aft-berth (the SB rear corner > of > > the pilothouse). From there on in, one must stoop or crawl into a > very > > large V-berth and sitting area.. > > I believe there is room for two independent sleeping areas under > there, > > but access might have to be created from each side of the > companionway > > stair, directly into each "stateroom". Kids love that kind of stuff. > > > Adults are a little adverse to it. An alternative might be moving > the > > companionway to one side of the pilothouse, but then you will have > > cockpit problems. I pondered this same situation for a long while > and > > what I have done was the best solution my limited intelligence could > > > conjure. > > To the best of my knowledge, I am the only BS40 under construction, > but > > others may be planning one. Maybe someone else has a more creative > > solution. The space is quite large, hotizontally, but vertically > > limited. > > It will make a great "state room", but access is a challenge. It > will be > > an even greater challenge at 80 years of age. > > Gord > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > SPONSORED LINKS > British columbia canada Vancouver island Yacht > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > + Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web. > > + To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > + Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > Service. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]| 10980|10980|2006-05-07 21:55:47|Gary|Dripless packing|Anyone using this? I have heard good opinions mostly but just recently I heard that it does not work as well on smaller shafts such as that on most Swain boats. Thanks...Gary http://www.e-marine-inc.com/products/gfopacking/packing.html#measure| 10983|10963|2006-05-08 08:03:36|Jim Ragsdale|Re: Sailing day|Alex, Which keel is on Silas Crosby? -----Original Message----- From: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com [mailto:origamiboats@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Alex Sent: Thursday, May 04, 2006 8:15 PM To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Sailing day You can see a short video clip of Silas Crosby under sail, taken from the top of the aft cabin, in the files section here, the file is called 'A Day Sail in Silas Crosby'. See another clip of the water leaving the trailing edge of the transom, called 'Analysis of wake' (very scientific), in same file section. There is also a very short MPEG clip in the files Group 2 of Brent rowing his dinghy to the dock with my kid aboard. Alex To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links| 10984|10963|2006-05-08 10:06:51|ALEX CHRISTIE|Re: Sailing day|Silas Crosby is a twin keeler. Alex Alex, Which keel is on Silas Crosby? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]| 10985|10985|2006-05-08 10:18:39|mkriley@fuse.net|dripless packing|all of the dripless packing I have seen in my life as a boat repairperson causes acelerated shaft wear. a proper flaxpacking with water pump grease can last years if it is installed correctly. thanks mike| 10986|10968|2006-05-08 16:22:53|mickeyolaf|Re: Pictures of 40' Please|Is yours the BS 40 being built in Steveston, Richmond? If not then are two. --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, gschnell wrote: > > Ken > I have a BS40 under construction. The aft berth (that is what we are > using the space for) is under the cockpit and behind the companionway > stair. As such, the access is rather indirect (to the SB of the > companionway stair) and headroom is limited. To address the dressing and > undressing challenges, we have created a full-height (standing room) > "changing-room" at the entrance to the aft-berth (the SB rear corner of > the pilothouse). From there on in, one must stoop or crawl into a very > large V-berth and sitting area.. > I believe there is room for two independent sleeping areas under there, > but access might have to be created from each side of the companionway > stair, directly into each "stateroom". Kids love that kind of stuff. > Adults are a little adverse to it. An alternative might be moving the > companionway to one side of the pilothouse, but then you will have > cockpit problems. I pondered this same situation for a long while and > what I have done was the best solution my limited intelligence could > conjure. > To the best of my knowledge, I am the only BS40 under construction, but > others may be planning one. Maybe someone else has a more creative > solution. The space is quite large, hotizontally, but vertically > limited. > It will make a great "state room", but access is a challenge. It will be > an even greater challenge at 80 years of age. > Gord > > Ken Hooper wrote: > > > > > > > Does anybody have images of the interior of a Swain 40, I'm looking > > especially for pictures taken from the companionway aft, of quarter > > berths or whatever you've put back there. There are no good pictures > > of > > this in the Photos section of the Yahoo site. > > > > Trying to determine if it's feasible to build two small staterooms for > > > > children, one per side in this area. > > > > Thanks, > > > > --Ken > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > SPONSORED LINKS > > > British columbia canada Vancouver island Yacht > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------- ------ > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > > > + Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web. > > > > + To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > + Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > > Service. > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------- ------ > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > | 10987|10968|2006-05-08 18:16:18|kingsknight4life|Re: Pictures of 40' Please|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "mickeyolaf" wrote: > > Is yours the BS 40 being built in Steveston, Richmond? If not then > are two. > > Mickey, Gord's boat is being built in Ricmond, barely. Barely in Richmond that is. :) He's at the other end of Richmond from Steveston, almost in New Westminster. So there must be two out there. Rowland| 10988|10977|2006-05-08 18:58:39|brentswain38|Re: rub rail|Your bulkwark caps ,stainless or galv ,is all the rubrails you need.You can split black poly pipe and put it over midships to protect the paint if its galv. I once met a Kiwi in New Caledonia who had a European boat which had angle welded on as rubrails , greatly increasing the rust and maintenance. He said that paint chipped far more readily off the "Rubrails" than it would on a flat surface and his maintenance would have been drastically reduced if some "bright spark" hadn't welded the angles on as rubrails. Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "sailwithjc" wrote: > > what can i use for rub rail that wont break me > | 10989|10968|2006-05-08 19:07:49|mickeyolaf|Re: Pictures of 40' Please|Then there are two because there is a BS 40 under contruction in Steveston, being built in a driveway. I can't remember the street but I see it every time I go to the Marine Consignment store out there. It is aluminum construction, single keel. I will grab the address next trip to "ditchmond". --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "kingsknight4life" wrote: > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "mickeyolaf" > wrote: > > > > Is yours the BS 40 being built in Steveston, Richmond? If not then > > are two. > > > > > Mickey, > Gord's boat is being built in Ricmond, barely. Barely in Richmond that > is. :) He's at the other end of Richmond from Steveston, almost in New > Westminster. So there must be two out there. > Rowland > | 10990|10968|2006-05-08 21:40:25|gschnell|Re: Pictures of 40' Please|Mine is also being built in Richmond, but not Steveston. I'm out in the Queensborough area. Gord mickeyolaf wrote: > Is yours the BS 40 being built in Steveston, Richmond? If not then > are two. > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, gschnell wrote: > > > > Ken > > I have a BS40 under construction. The aft berth (that is what we > are > > using the space for) is under the cockpit and behind the > companionway > > stair. As such, the access is rather indirect (to the SB of the > > companionway stair) and headroom is limited. To address the > dressing and > > undressing challenges, we have created a full-height (standing > room) > > "changing-room" at the entrance to the aft-berth (the SB rear > corner of > > the pilothouse). From there on in, one must stoop or crawl into a > very > > large V-berth and sitting area.. > > I believe there is room for two independent sleeping areas under > there, > > but access might have to be created from each side of the > companionway > > stair, directly into each "stateroom". Kids love that kind of > stuff. > > Adults are a little adverse to it. An alternative might be moving > the > > companionway to one side of the pilothouse, but then you will have > > cockpit problems. I pondered this same situation for a long while > and > > what I have done was the best solution my limited intelligence > could > > conjure. > > To the best of my knowledge, I am the only BS40 under > construction, but > > others may be planning one. Maybe someone else has a more creative > > solution. The space is quite large, hotizontally, but vertically > > limited. > > It will make a great "state room", but access is a challenge. It > will be > > an even greater challenge at 80 years of age. > > Gord > > > > Ken Hooper wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Does anybody have images of the interior of a Swain 40, I'm > looking > > > especially for pictures taken from the companionway aft, of > quarter > > > berths or whatever you've put back there. There are no good > pictures > > > of > > > this in the Photos section of the Yahoo site. > > > > > > Trying to determine if it's feasible to build two small > staterooms for > > > > > > children, one per side in this area. > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > --Ken > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > > > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > SPONSORED LINKS > > > > > British columbia canada Vancouver island Yacht > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------- > ------ > > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > > > > > + Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web. > > > > > > + To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > + Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > > > Service. > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------- > ------ > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > SPONSORED LINKS > British columbia canada Vancouver island Yacht > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > + Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web. > > + To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > + Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > Service. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]| 10991|10991|2006-05-09 09:52:14|SHANE ROTHWELL|Pictures of 40'er|Mickey, A marine consignment store in ditchmond? Where & who? got a phone #? Many Thanks, Shane __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com| 10992|10991|2006-05-09 20:32:29|mickeyolaf|Re: Pictures of 40'er|MarinersXchange, 120-12220-2nd Avenue, Steveston,BC. 604-271-2284 He doesn't like to dicker, in fact if you get him to reduce a price you will be the first. You are far better off buying at marine swap meets. He had a tiller head in there for $135. He wouldn't take offers. I found one for $30 at a swap meet. I was going out there to put stuff on consignment from my last boat that I kept back when I sold it. He is good for selling stuff though. He keeps 35%. --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, SHANE ROTHWELL wrote: > > Mickey, > > A marine consignment store in ditchmond? Where & who? > got a phone #? > > Many Thanks, > Shane > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > | 10993|10968|2006-05-09 20:46:01|mickeyolaf|Re: Pictures of 40' Please|You two will have to get together and compare/exchange notes. Next trip to Richmond I will post the address. He has it under a blue tarp, deck and house are on, cockpit done, transom hung rudder. About five minutes from Steveston east and north. I think it is the 40 hull and deck built in Kelowna by Len Blower out of Aluminum. --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, gschnell wrote: > > Mine is also being built in Richmond, but not Steveston. I'm out in the > Queensborough area. > Gord > > > mickeyolaf wrote: > > > Is yours the BS 40 being built in Steveston, Richmond? If not then > > are two. > > > > > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, gschnell wrote: > > > > > > Ken > > > I have a BS40 under construction. The aft berth (that is what we > > are > > > using the space for) is under the cockpit and behind the > > companionway > > > stair. As such, the access is rather indirect (to the SB of the > > > companionway stair) and headroom is limited. To address the > > dressing and > > > undressing challenges, we have created a full-height (standing > > room) > > > "changing-room" at the entrance to the aft-berth (the SB rear > > corner of > > > the pilothouse). From there on in, one must stoop or crawl into a > > very > > > large V-berth and sitting area.. > > > I believe there is room for two independent sleeping areas under > > there, > > > but access might have to be created from each side of the > > companionway > > > stair, directly into each "stateroom". Kids love that kind of > > stuff. > > > Adults are a little adverse to it. An alternative might be moving > > the > > > companionway to one side of the pilothouse, but then you will have > > > cockpit problems. I pondered this same situation for a long while > > and > > > what I have done was the best solution my limited intelligence > > could > > > conjure. > > > To the best of my knowledge, I am the only BS40 under > > construction, but > > > others may be planning one. Maybe someone else has a more creative > > > solution. The space is quite large, hotizontally, but vertically > > > limited. > > > It will make a great "state room", but access is a challenge. It > > will be > > > an even greater challenge at 80 years of age. > > > Gord > > > > > > Ken Hooper wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Does anybody have images of the interior of a Swain 40, I'm > > looking > > > > especially for pictures taken from the companionway aft, of > > quarter > > > > berths or whatever you've put back there. There are no good > > pictures > > > > of > > > > this in the Photos section of the Yahoo site. > > > > > > > > Trying to determine if it's feasible to build two small > > staterooms for > > > > > > > > children, one per side in this area. > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > > --Ken > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > > > > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > SPONSORED LINKS > > > > > > > British columbia canada Vancouver island Yacht > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > > ------ > > > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > > > > > > > + Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web. > > > > > > > > + To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > + Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > > > > Service. > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > > ------ > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > SPONSORED LINKS > > > British columbia canada Vancouver island Yacht > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------- ------ > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > > > + Visit your group "origamiboats" on the web. > > > > + To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > + Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > > Service. > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------- ------ > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > | 10994|10994|2006-05-09 22:26:38|tom|30 Hp diesel|FYI Anyone building the 31 or 36 and still needing engine there is a couple on ebay http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/YANMAR-30-HP-DIESEL-MOTOR_W0QQitemZ4638968104QQcategoryZ50441QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Westerberke-30-Marine-Diesel-Engine_W0QQitemZ4638905894QQcategoryZ50441QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem Tom [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]| 10995|10994|2006-05-09 23:01:20|khooper_fboats|Re: 30 Hp diesel|> FYI > Anyone building the 31 or 36 and still needing engine there is a couple on ebay Also here is a 27-hp Isuzu C201 listed only as a Thermo-King: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7616988526&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&rd=1 --Ken| 10996|10994|2006-05-10 08:12:18|cirejay|Re: 30 Hp diesel|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "tom" wrote: > > FYI > Anyone building the 31 or 36 and still needing engine there is a couple on ebay This is just a general warning. Be suspect, very, very suspect of anything marine coming out of the southeast these days. In fact, some of it is even traveling further north as people buy large lots of 'stuff'. If being underwater or even wet could harm what you are thinking of buying I would suggest staying away from anything out of this region. There have been just too many war stories. As for engines, small marine diesels are, pretty much exclusively, marinized small tractor engines. The way a diesel gets into so many boats is that the manufacture 'buys the OEM market' Yanmar, especially did this a number of years back, as did Volvo. The new Yanmars are a far cry from the old ones. Check previous post to see how I feel about Volvos :-). There is little comparison between the older engines and the new ones. Now, I know that one just can't automatically go out and plop down 10 grand or so for a new engine but keep in mind that you are not getting the used equivalent of that new engine when you buy used. It's not like buying a 10 or 15 year old Honda or Toyota. So, what do you? Beats the hell out of me. But, if I were building or having built, today (never built a boat in my life - a few houses is about it - and I have a heck of a lot of respect for you folks who have and are) I would use a 'mess' of batteries - AGM's - as part of my ballast and go electric with a genset.| 10997|10997|2006-05-10 12:23:21|jfpacuas|Devoe Primers|Hi Folks, Has anyone had any experience with Devoe zinc-rich primers? I'll be ordering some steel soon for a BS26 and I will be having it blasted and primed by a local outfit. They have more experience with Devoe products (they didn't seem real comfortable using Carboweld) so I am inclined to use Devoe if the primer is satisfactory. Seems Devoe 302 is the primer to use, yes? Comments? Cheers Paul| 10998|10998|2006-05-10 13:44:01|Gary|Sea Clear 11|Anyone using this...it is charting freeware available on line as a free download. Since I have a notebook computer I thought I would check this out. I am not looking for a complicated multi function system, just basic gps plotted on a chart. This looks like it may do. And, lastly are there electronic charts available for BC and south seas with Sea Clear. Also, any opinions on use of notebook and ECS would be welcomed. Regards... Gary| 10999|10998|2006-05-10 15:15:32|Benjamin A. Okopnik|Re: Sea Clear 11|Hello, all - On Wed, May 10, 2006 at 05:43:14PM -0000, Gary wrote: > Anyone using this...it is charting freeware available on line as a > free download. Since I have a notebook computer I thought I would > check this out. I am not looking for a complicated multi function > system, just basic gps plotted on a chart. This looks like it may > do. And, lastly are there electronic charts available for BC and > south seas with Sea Clear. Also, any opinions on use of notebook and > ECS would be welcomed. I've been using a notebook and ECS for many years now. Don't get me wrong - they'll have to pry my paper charts from my cold dead hands, etc. - but I really like having the ECS option for planning and as a backup. However, I don't do Windows - I'm a Linux user - so I don't know how useful you'll find my answer. My favorite mapping software is Mayko "xmap" (free download from http://fresh.t-systems-sfr.com/linux/src/ - note that there are three files there with "mxmap" in the name, one of which is a bunch of sample maps.) It reads BSB charts, does GPS tracking, allows you to construct/follow routes, set markers, "scribble" on the charts, and do lots of other goodies. It also allows you to use, e.g., a scan of a map - you just set the lat/long of diagonally opposing corners, and away you go. I've also tried SeeMyDEnc, from http://www.sevencs.com/ , but was unimpressed with it. Perhaps it's the fact that the freely-available NOAA charts are of such low quality, or that I can't find any high-quality S-57 or ENC format charts, but I don't feel like struggling to climb a hill when I don't need to. * Ben Okopnik * Editor-in-Chief, Linux Gazette * http://linuxgazette.net * | 11000|10991|2006-05-10 15:36:43|Michael Casling|Re: Pictures of 40'er|Same with other places. Life rings used for $70- that are at the boat show new for $59-. We need to be aware of the new price of an item before buying used. Michael ----- Original Message ----- From: mickeyolaf To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, May 09, 2006 5:31 PM Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Pictures of 40'er MarinersXchange, 120-12220-2nd Avenue, Steveston,BC. 604-271-2284 He doesn't like to dicker, in fact if you get him to reduce a price you will be the first. You are far better off buying at marine swap meets. He had a tiller head in there for $135. He wouldn't take offers. I found one for $30 at a swap meet. I was going out there to put stuff on consignment from my last boat that I kept back when I sold it. He is good for selling stuff though. He keeps 35%. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |