21001|20944|2009-08-19 16:24:57|prairiemaidca|Turnbuckles|Hi Brent; On the turnbuckles. Would the 5/8th size that you purchased in Campbell River be suitalble for my 36ft. or do you recomend a different size. Also how much take up do those buckles have? Thanks: Martin (Prairie Maid)| 21002|20944|2009-08-19 16:43:05|martin demers|Re: Turnbuckles|I went to a hardware supplier to get some galvanized turnbuckles and I asked for the maximum tension it could endure ; for a 5/8 it was around 3000 lbs. I presume that the galvanized one sold in boat suppliers are stronger. To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com From: mforster@... Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 20:24:47 +0000 Subject: [origamiboats] Turnbuckles Hi Brent; On the turnbuckles. Would the 5/8th size that you purchased in Campbell River be suitalble for my 36ft. or do you recomend a different size. Also how much take up do those buckles have? Thanks: Martin (Prairie Maid) _________________________________________________________________ Attention à tous les Humains. Nous sommes vos photos. Libérez-nous de vos disques durs. http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9666050 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]| 21003|20944|2009-08-19 17:49:04|Carl Anderson|Re: Turnbuckles|Martin, I used 5/8" galvanized turnbuckles on my 36 footer. The breaking strength is around 17,000 pounds. When you get the 3000 pound figure that is the SWL or safe working load. The turnbuckles that I purchased were 12" open body type. I did use one 6" on the forestay. I purchased all my galvanized turnbuckles & shackles from an industrial rigging company in Utah. Prices were good compared to the internet + shipping. I explained it in the powerpoint presentation regarding rigging my boat along with the pictures. Hope that this helps you. Carl martin demers wrote: > > > > I went to a hardware supplier to get some galvanized turnbuckles and I > asked for the maximum tension it could endure ; for a 5/8 it was around > 3000 lbs. I presume that the galvanized one sold in boat suppliers are > stronger. > > To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > From: mforster@... > Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 20:24:47 +0000 > Subject: [origamiboats] Turnbuckles > > Hi Brent; On the turnbuckles. Would the 5/8th size that you purchased in > Campbell River be suitalble for my 36ft. or do you recomend a different > size. Also how much take up do those buckles have? Thanks: Martin > (Prairie Maid) > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________________ > Attention à tous les Humains. Nous sommes vos photos. Libérez-nous de > vos disques durs. > http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9666050 > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > | 21004|20944|2009-08-19 18:02:32|prairiemaidca|Turnbuckles|Hi ALL; I just talked with ocean pacific about those buckles and they are out of them. She quoted the price to be $26.47 and they are a sea dog number 186142. On sea dog's web catalogue they state that they don't have the breaking limit on some items due to the supplier not being sure of a constant number when they are cast. The S.S. 5/8ths units are over 17,000lbs breaking strength. Martin (Prairie Maid)| 21005|20944|2009-08-19 18:29:19|brentswain38|Re: Turnbuckles|I have used the 5/8th galv open body turnbuckles on every boat I've owned and the 40 footers have used them. I have never heard of any of them failing. In South Frisco, a friend and I went to a testing facility to test some stuff he had. The cheap Chinese 5/16th galv shackles went to 15,000 lbs before breaking. When they broke,the pin bent, then the threads pulled out. When I look at them, then the 5/8th galv turnbuckles, I have no worries whatever about the turnbuckles.I still wouldn't trust shackles on standing rigging , but have a lot of faith in the turnbuckles. They are far stronger than the 5/16th rigging wire , which is all that matters. I like the idea of soaking them in lanolin, then wrapping them with lanolin or grease soaked canvas, then duct tape,t I can cut the wrapping where the threads are wired,if needed. Brent -- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "prairiemaidca" wrote: > > Hi Brent; On the turnbuckles. Would the 5/8th size that you purchased in Campbell River be suitalble for my 36ft. or do you recomend a different size. Also how much take up do those buckles have? Thanks: Martin (Prairie Maid) > | 21006|20939|2009-08-19 18:33:48|brentswain38|Re: pine mast?|How does it compare, weight wise ,to fir? Anything no heavier than fir is OK ,about 35 lbs a cubic foot.The important thing about grown masts is to avoid beginning the taper until you are 70% above decks, or the top will be too whippy. Otherwise they make a great mast. Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, aaron riis wrote: > > hi, again wondering on your opinions of a solid pine mast I was just thinking the trees grow very straight, its heavier than spruce, but more resistant to rot what do you think? > > Aaron > > --- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Paul Wilson > Subject: Re: [origamiboats] Re:Solar Energy:Grid Parity > To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > Received: Tuesday, August 18, 2009, 6:34 PM > > > > > > > My wind generator worked great if there were no waves at anchor and it > worked great offshore when the boat was rolling and pitching at the same > time. The problem was at anchor with pitching due to a short chop. I > would never have a two blade wind generator again for this reason. If > you look at a two blade generator frozen in time in a pitching boat at > anchor, when the blades are horizontal they are twisting about their > axis. The moment or force is minimal since it is like grabbing the > blade and twirling it with your wrist. When the blade is vertical, it > moves through a great arc with the boat going through a fast pitch. Its > like grabbing the blade a wagging it through the air....much more force > involved. Gyroscopic effects cause the reactive force to react 90 > degrees to actual force so the wind generator vibrates even though > everything is statically balanced.... the forces involved with the blades > vertical are much more than with the blades horizontal. Even with a > perfectly balanced blades, in those conditions, it will shake > everything to bits. A 3 or 4 blade generator doesn't have this problem > since the forces of blades being horizontal versus blades being vertical > are not so great since with 3 or 4 blades spaced around the hub they > cancel each other. The night I lost my wind generator, I was in Suvarov > and it was blowing 25 to 30 knots from the south over a large lagoon and > there were about 6 to 8 foot waves going through the anchorage. The > waves were going right over the deck and the anchor line was trying to > jump out of the bow roller. The gyroscopic effect shook the wind > generator so bad it snapped the 5/8 inch shaft of the motor..... not a > good night, but Suvarov is a wonderful place so it was worth it. :). > > I am not sure why birds liked my wind generator, but about 3 got too > close for comfort... big mess. > > Cheers, Paul > > brentswain38 wrote: > > > > > > So much for the motor cycle idea > > I put my 5 ft diameter blade on a post at the stern so I really have > > to reach to touch it. Not a problem. I packed it's 1 7/8th diameter > > pipe in a 3 inch pipe with lots of foam around it so the noise is > > minimal. Balance it by a string in the middle of the hub. > > Only one seagull was dumb enought hover behind it for a while while it > > was spining. He never got the nerve to check it closer , and I haven't > > see a bird that dense since. > > Brent > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________________________ > Looking for the perfect gift? Give the gift of Flickr! > > http://www.flickr.com/gift/ > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > | 21007|20939|2009-08-19 18:44:26|brentswain38|Solar Energy:Grid Parity|Machine a bit of plastic rod up, the diameter of your generator motor shaft, with a tiny hole dead centre. You can do this with an electric drill holding the plastic with a tiny bolt thru the hole and a bit of sandpaper.Put this in your blade, then suspend it from a string to see which is the heavier blade. Sand that one down until the blade sits horizontal when suspended from the string in the middle . Then she is balanced. Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Ray" wrote: > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "brentswain38" wrote: > > > > So much for the motor cycle idea > > >Balance it by a string in the middle of the hub. > > Brent > > Brent - color me dumb, but, I'm having a hard time visualizing this. Care to explain a little futher? > | 21008|20944|2009-08-19 18:51:28|brentswain38|Re: Turnbuckles|I use whatever liquid electrical tape I can get, but my latest can was 'Star Bright " made in Ft Lauderdale Floriduh. It has a lot of uses on a boat, mainly electrical , but not exclusively. It tends to disolve existing electrical tape, but if you brush it lightly over existing electrical tape , it will never work loose. If you sweat solder into the end of stranded wire so it flows under the insulation, then coat the end with liquid electrical tape, it stops water from wicking along the entire length of the wire. Great stuff. Brent -- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Keith Green wrote: > > > I don't post on here much but this thread caught my eye. > Do you have a preferred brand for the brush-on electrical tape? What > various uses have you found for it on your boats? > > > > > Thanks, > > > > Keith Green > > > > Surrey, BC > > brentswain38 wrote: > > I bought them at Ocean Pacific in Campbell river, for $21.16 each. They cost me $26 , 25 years ago. I also needed some liquid electrical tape, but their price was $18, compared to the going rate of $7. I'll let the buyers of electrical tape subsidise my turnbuckles. They are 5/8th inch jaw both ends galv open body. > > Brent > > > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, martin demers wrote: > > > >> where do you get them? > >> > >> > >> > | 21009|20939|2009-08-19 18:57:41|brentswain38|Solar Energy:Grid Parity|While I prefer the same daily amperage output in solar panels, they cost a lot more than any permanent magnet motor I've ever bought, and they only put out power 8 hours a day, compared to 24 hours in a good breeze for a wind generator. Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Paul Wilson wrote: > > My wind generator worked great if there were no waves at anchor and it > worked great offshore when the boat was rolling and pitching at the same > time. The problem was at anchor with pitching due to a short chop. I > would never have a two blade wind generator again for this reason. If > you look at a two blade generator frozen in time in a pitching boat at > anchor, when the blades are horizontal they are twisting about their > axis. The moment or force is minimal since it is like grabbing the > blade and twirling it with your wrist. When the blade is vertical, it > moves through a great arc with the boat going through a fast pitch. Its > like grabbing the blade a wagging it through the air....much more force > involved. Gyroscopic effects cause the reactive force to react 90 > degrees to actual force so the wind generator vibrates even though > everything is statically balanced....the forces involved with the blades > vertical are much more than with the blades horizontal. Even with a > perfectly balanced blades, in those conditions, it will shake > everything to bits. A 3 or 4 blade generator doesn't have this problem > since the forces of blades being horizontal versus blades being vertical > are not so great since with 3 or 4 blades spaced around the hub they > cancel each other. The night I lost my wind generator, I was in Suvarov > and it was blowing 25 to 30 knots from the south over a large lagoon and > there were about 6 to 8 foot waves going through the anchorage. The > waves were going right over the deck and the anchor line was trying to > jump out of the bow roller. The gyroscopic effect shook the wind > generator so bad it snapped the 5/8 inch shaft of the motor..... not a > good night, but Suvarov is a wonderful place so it was worth it. :). > > I am not sure why birds liked my wind generator, but about 3 got too > close for comfort... big mess. > > Cheers, Paul > > brentswain38 wrote: > > > > > > So much for the motor cycle idea > > I put my 5 ft diameter blade on a post at the stern so I really have > > to reach to touch it. Not a problem. I packed it's 1 7/8th diameter > > pipe in a 3 inch pipe with lots of foam around it so the noise is > > minimal. Balance it by a string in the middle of the hub. > > Only one seagull was dumb enought hover behind it for a while while it > > was spining. He never got the nerve to check it closer , and I haven't > > see a bird that dense since. > > Brent > > > > > | 21010|20944|2009-08-19 18:58:59|martin demers|Re: Turnbuckles|wich end do you use on your turnbuckles? hook, close loop or shackle? To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com From: brentswain38@... Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 22:29:01 +0000 Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Turnbuckles I have used the 5/8th galv open body turnbuckles on every boat I've owned and the 40 footers have used them. I have never heard of any of them failing. In South Frisco, a friend and I went to a testing facility to test some stuff he had. The cheap Chinese 5/16th galv shackles went to 15,000 lbs before breaking. When they broke,the pin bent, then the threads pulled out. When I look at them, then the 5/8th galv turnbuckles, I have no worries whatever about the turnbuckles.I still wouldn't trust shackles on standing rigging , but have a lot of faith in the turnbuckles. They are far stronger than the 5/16th rigging wire , which is all that matters. I like the idea of soaking them in lanolin, then wrapping them with lanolin or grease soaked canvas, then duct tape,t I can cut the wrapping where the threads are wired,if needed. Brent -- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "prairiemaidca" wrote: > > Hi Brent; On the turnbuckles. Would the 5/8th size that you purchased in Campbell River be suitalble for my 36ft. or do you recomend a different size. Also how much take up do those buckles have? Thanks: Martin (Prairie Maid) > _________________________________________________________________ Attention à tous les Humains. Nous sommes vos photos. Libérez-nous de vos disques durs. http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9666050 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]| 21011|20953|2009-08-20 01:36:26|donalphilby|Re: Alt energy hitch|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Ben Okopnik wrote: > > The first part of what you say is true enough: PV cells, particularly > the current generation, do indeed require rare-earth metals (tellurium, > specifically - since the basis of thin-film panels is CdTe). However, > I'm afraid that you've been misled about the source: although China has > discovered some tellurium-rich ores in Xinju, this says nothing about > the rest of the world. Have you ever heard of Telluride, Colorado? Ben, I was writting of rare earths. Tellurium is a rare element not included among the RE category. I'm no geologist and am learning as I go. The rare earths are almost always found amongst uranium deposits and are thus dangerous to mine. Very interesting about your claim story. With any luck for the planet and sailors in particular (though maybe not for our investments) I hope that many of the rare earth needs can be overcome to make alt energy ubiquitous. Hats off to the wide range of your interests. We are both blessed and cursed with insatiable curiosity, I think. donal| 21012|20953|2009-08-20 01:45:41|donalphilby|Re: Alt energy hitch|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Chris Salayka wrote: > > Hi > Here's a link to a new battery technology -- hooked up with solar if the battery works as advertised it will be the answer -- and is cost effective. > Chris > http://www.heraldextra.com/news/article_b0372fd8-3f3c-11de-ac77-001cc4c002e0.html > Chris, Google EEStor. Another ceramic style battery company that is working under the public radar. As far as I can gather they are very well funded by VC and looking for public display pretty soon. Also light weight and doesn't wear out like lead acid. Surely Nigel Calder will have all the details... donal| 21013|20953|2009-08-20 06:18:57|gcode fi (hanermo)|Re: Alt energy hitch - bettries matter|Both are among LOTS of new stuff in use, in tests and about to be at all industrial suppliers. Another, very very good option is supercapacitors. They can be used to store enough energy to make things like a bus move !, and have great energy density and can be charged in seconds. They would beat batteries in electric vehicles hands down, but are still expensive. Apparently they can be charged about 1000 times more than batteries, ie useful life in the 10-20-++ years, and re-charged at very high rates. An electric vehicle could potentially be recharged in a few seconds. Now, since they are already available, and like thin-film printed PV cells are a proven technology, one or some of these is 100% sure to get a way to mass produce them cheaply. This alone ! will crack the alternate energy barrier, and vastly increase our energy production/cost, with attendant benefits in cost, price, quality of life, reduction in environmental contamination, lessening pollution, improving efficiency etc. etc. Today, about 99% of all energy is wasted. Any truly capable storage solution will inevitable change this tremendously, provided that production costs are reasonable, ie no uranium, particle accelerators, 600 degree molten sulphr etc. Every commercial industrial operator will of course buy any technology that lowers their costs significantly. The power is available, just plug in at 1. any existing large nuclear plant, at source 2. any large PV grid installation If we could avoid transmission losses (25-30%), and some of the mechanical transmission losses at use, like in marine transmissions (30%), the cost benefits are so large, that penetration would happen at warp speed. For marine uses, a truly powerful capacitor for example, would mean no need for transmission, just use a 3-phase brushless motor. The lack of transmission would give you a number of very important benefits; 1. no transmission cooling, heat and energy losses 2. the electric motors are far smaller than existing diesel motors (by 50-90%) 3. maintenance costs are lower by 10x 4. lifetime is increased by 10x Think of the benefits in not needing to build and pay and maintain, for a boat, -transmission -fuel tanks -fuel and oil filters (no changes needed) -30% increased efficiency from transmission - 20% increased efficiency from motor as brushless motors are as efficient at all speeds -typically, 100-300% increased burst power (it is easy to have very high momentary power ratings in brushless motors, limited only by magnetic saturation and heating limits, where the heating is the limiting factor) The effects would be/will be much bigger than You might think- -One effect is that all maritime transport, carrying approx 80-90% of all goods in the world, would instantly become about 50% cheaper. -And buses -And trains -And air-conditioning -Aluminium, the cost if which is 90% in electricity, would go down about 30% in price etc. etc. The one thing needed is a small-size storage device, able to store say 1 GWh of enrgy, allowing you to say buy a storage unit of power for 20.000 miles of navigation, and change it for a new re-charged one when low in power, say 5-10 years later. Trains would not need transmission lines, increasing the efficiency 10-20%. Neither would factories (10-30%). I think you get the picture. The power is not the problem. Storing and transporting it is. The first company to crack this, truly crack it (at the gWh level), can easily surpass Microsoft. Even a significant improvement (say 10x current li-ion battery tech) would mean that electric vehicles would become the transportation of choice, literally overnight. Can anyone imagine being able to sell 100 M new electric cars / year ? The only drawback today to electric vehicles in the battery- cost, mass, capacity and charging time (irrelevant is capacity is large). The charging time does not matter a bit, it could even be 10x lower than todays battery, if the capacity was say 100x larger. You could just swap a new battery once a year, and they could be charged in wherever, at the gas station, in a desert, wherever. BTW- My comments about effects on pricing are based on economics. Maritime transport operates at certain margins. Lowering the cost of one part, means that the cost of the service provided would reduce, as the maritime agencies continuously compete against each other. Likewise industrial processes (all gases, rubber, etc). There is no reason airplanes would not run on a battery. If the 100 tons of fuel on a plane could be removed, imagine the effect on margins and airline transport costs (and the environment). donalphilby wrote: > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > , Chris Salayka > wrote: > > > > Hi > > Here's a link to a new battery technology -- hooked up with solar if > the battery works as advertised it will be the answer -- and is cost > effective. > > Chris > > > http://www.heraldextra.com/news/article_b0372fd8-3f3c-11de-ac77-001cc4c002e0.html > > > > > Chris, > > Google EEStor. Another ceramic style battery company that is working > under the public radar. As far as I can gather they are very well > funded by VC and looking for public display pretty soon. Also light > weight and doesn't wear out like lead acid. > > Surely Nigel Calder will have all the details... > > donal > | 21014|21014|2009-08-20 07:04:16|Michael Crumpton|Hi.|Hi. Long time not contact you. I am so missing you! Hope everything is going on well. One more wonderful thing want to share with you, I found one good website which sells all kinds of products.(Nike、Gucci、Puma、Bape、 A & F、D & G、Adidas、Chanel、Fendi、shoe、wrap、POLO、clothes、the the sun mirror、microphone、Watches ......). I already bought a lot of goods from him and now became my best friend now. U also can click in his website:http://www.jajaonlineshop.com If you can introduce customers to him,you will be gave 20% of the total amount . Which same as me now. Please try it. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]| 21015|20953|2009-08-20 08:17:24|edward_stoneuk|Re: Back to boating tech.|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Ben Okopnik wrote: > "We'll all be rooned," said Hanrahan, > In accents most forlorn, > Outside the church, ere Mass began, > One frosty Sunday morn. > > [...] > > "The crops are done; ye'll have your work > To save one bag of grain; > From here way out to Back-o'-Bourke > They're singin' out for rain. > > [...] > > "If we don't get three inches, man, > Or four to break this drought, > We'll all be rooned," said Hanrahan, > "Before the year is out." > > In God's good time down came the rain; > And all the afternoon > On iron roof and window-pane > It drummed a homely tune. > > [...] > > And, oh, the smiles on every face, > As happy lad and lass > Through grass knee-deep on Casey's place > Went riding down to Mass. > > "There'll be bush-fires for sure, me man, > There will, without a doubt; > We'll all be rooned," said Hanrahan, > "Before the year is out." > > -- John O'Brien, "Said Hanrahan" > Hi Ben, I never took you to be an admirer of Australian Ballads. One that strikes a chord with me is "Clancy Of The Overflow." I had written him a letter which I had, for want of better Knowledge, sent to where I met him down the Lachlan, years ago, He was shearing when I knew him, so I sent the letter to him, Just `on spec', addressed as follows, `Clancy, of The Overflow'. And an answer came directed in a writing unexpected, (And I think the same was written with a thumb-nail dipped in tar) 'Twas his shearing mate who wrote it, and verbatim I will quote it: `Clancy's gone to Queensland droving, and we don't know where he are.' In my wild erratic fancy visions come to me of Clancy Gone a-droving `down the Cooper' where the Western drovers go; As the stock are slowly stringing, Clancy rides behind them singing, For the drover's life has pleasures that the townsfolk never know. And the bush hath friends to meet him, and their kindly voices greet him In the murmur of the breezes and the river on its bars, And he sees the vision splendid of the sunlit plains extended, And at night the wond'rous glory of the everlasting stars. I am sitting in my dingy little office, where a stingy Ray of sunlight struggles feebly down between the houses tall, And the foetid air and gritty of the dusty, dirty city Through the open window floating, spreads its foulness over all And in place of lowing cattle, I can hear the fiendish rattle Of the tramways and the 'buses making hurry down the street, And the language uninviting of the gutter children fighting, Comes fitfully and faintly through the ceaseless tramp of feet. And the hurrying people daunt me, and their pallid faces haunt me As they shoulder one another in their rush and nervous haste, With their eager eyes and greedy, and their stunted forms and weedy, For townsfolk have no time to grow, they have no time to waste. And I somehow rather fancy that I'd like to change with Clancy, Like to take a turn at droving where the seasons come and go, While he faced the round eternal of the cash-book and the journal -- But I doubt he'd suit the office, Clancy, of `The Overflow'. If you substitute the Big Blue for the magnificent Australian Outback then it might suit what a lot of us feel. If you like Australian poetry, I would recommend anything by Les Murray. He was bought up on a farm. We have heard him twice at poetry recitals and have several of his books. I bought a signed copy to give to my niece as a weding present. Regards, Ted| 21016|20939|2009-08-20 09:31:25|raykimbro|Solar Energy:Grid Parity|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "brentswain38" wrote: > > Machine a bit of plastic rod up, the diameter of your generator motor shaft, with a tiny hole dead centre. You can do this with an electric drill holding the plastic with a tiny bolt thru the hole and a bit of sandpaper.Put this in your blade, then suspend it from a string to see which is the heavier blade. Sand that one down until the blade sits horizontal when suspended from the string in the middle . Then she is balanced. > Brent > AH - lightbulb went on - you statically balance the blades before installation. Don't know why, but I was envisioning some kind of mount that provided for dynamic balancing/dampening of the vibrations. I appreciate you clearing that up for me.| 21017|20953|2009-08-20 09:58:52|Ben Okopnik|Re: Back to boating tech.|On Thu, Aug 20, 2009 at 12:17:07PM -0000, edward_stoneuk wrote: > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Ben Okopnik wrote: > > > "We'll all be rooned," said Hanrahan, > > In accents most forlorn, > > Outside the church, ere Mass began, > > One frosty Sunday morn. > > Hi Ben, > > I never took you to be an admirer of Australian Ballads. I have surprising depths. :) > One that strikes a chord with me is "Clancy Of The Overflow." One of my favorites, too - I have it on my computer, in the "Favorite_poetry" directory. I was introduced to it by a poetry list, The Wandering Minstrels, that I was on some years ago, and fell in love with it immediately. > If you substitute the Big Blue for the magnificent Australian Outback > then it might suit what a lot of us feel. I have Kipling's "The Sea and the Hills" in that directory for that exact reason. Who hath desired the Sea? -- the sight of salt water unbounded -- The heave and the halt and the hurl and the crash of the comber wind-hounded? The sleek-barrelled swell before storm, grey, foamless, enormous, and growing -- Stark calm on the lap of the Line or the crazy-eyed hurricane blowing -- His Sea in no showing the same - his Sea and the same 'neath each showing: His Sea as she slackens or thrills? So and no otherwise -- so and no otherwise -- hillmen desire their Hills! Who hath desired the Sea? -- the immense and contemptuous surges? The shudder, the stumble, the swerve, as the star-stabbing bow-sprit emerges? The orderly clouds of the Trades, the ridged, roaring sapphire thereunder -- Unheralded cliff-haunting flaws and the headsail's low-volleying thunder -- His Sea in no wonder the same his Sea and the same through each wonder: His Sea as she rages or stills? So and no otherwise -- so and no otherwise -- hillmen desire their Hills. [...] http://www.cs.rice.edu/~ssiyer/minstrels/poems/29.html > If you like Australian poetry, I would recommend anything by Les > Murray. He was bought up on a farm. We have heard him twice at > poetry recitals and have several of his books. I bought a signed copy > to give to my niece as a weding present. Thanks, Ted! I've always been a fan of Australian and Canadian poetry of that sort (yes, I *do* like Robert Service, and I don't care how many EngLit wonks sneer at him - they're all idiots who think that James Joyce was actually literate...) I'll definitely look for his work. Best, -- * Ben Okopnik * Editor-in-Chief, Linux Gazette * http://LinuxGazette.NET *| 21018|21018|2009-08-20 17:25:34|brentswain38|Shinola for sale|I see Shinola in Campbell river has a for sale sign on her with the phone number 250-203-0616 . Great boat, well kept, single keel. Don't know what he is asking for her. Brent| 21019|20944|2009-08-20 17:29:08|brentswain38|Re: Turnbuckles|I put the jaw over the chainplate and the thimble on the end of the wire or the loop or th epoured socket in the jaw on the other end, eliminating the need for shackles. They open a max of just over 2 ft and close down to 16 inches. Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, martin demers wrote: > > > wich end do you use on your turnbuckles? hook, close loop or shackle? > > To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > From: brentswain38@... > Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 22:29:01 +0000 > Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Turnbuckles > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have used the 5/8th galv open body turnbuckles on every boat I've owned and the 40 footers have used them. I have never heard of any of them failing. > > In South Frisco, a friend and I went to a testing facility to test some stuff he had. The cheap Chinese 5/16th galv shackles went to 15,000 lbs before breaking. When they broke,the pin bent, then the threads pulled out. When I look at them, then the 5/8th galv turnbuckles, I have no worries whatever about the turnbuckles.I still wouldn't trust shackles on standing rigging , but have a lot of faith in the turnbuckles. They are far stronger than the 5/16th rigging wire , which is all that matters. > > I like the idea of soaking them in lanolin, then wrapping them with lanolin or grease soaked canvas, then duct tape,t I can cut the wrapping where the threads are wired,if needed. > > Brent > > > > -- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "prairiemaidca" wrote: > > > > > > Hi Brent; On the turnbuckles. Would the 5/8th size that you purchased in Campbell River be suitalble for my 36ft. or do you recomend a different size. Also how much take up do those buckles have? Thanks: Martin (Prairie Maid) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Attention à tous les Humains. Nous sommes vos photos. Libérez-nous de vos disques durs. > http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9666050 > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > | 21020|20939|2009-08-21 01:14:33|aaron riis|Re: enamel inside?|--- On Wed, 8/19/09, brentswain38 wrote:  I don't think that pine is any heavier than fir, just would need to dry it slow enough that it doesn't check. wondering  about painting enamel inside the boat on the first layer of epoxy, before the foam, ive got lots of enamel and only about eight gallons of epoxy for the inside. the stuff i tried stuck well so far Aaron From: brentswain38 Subject: [origamiboats] Re: pine mast? To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Received: Wednesday, August 19, 2009, 3:33 PM   How does it compare, weight wise ,to fir? Anything no heavier than fir is OK ,about 35 lbs a cubic foot.The important thing about grown masts is to avoid beginning the taper until you are 70% above decks, or the top will be too whippy. Otherwise they make a great mast. Brent --- In origamiboats@ yahoogroups. com, aaron riis wrote: > > hi, again wondering on your opinions of a solid pine mast I was just thinking the trees grow very straight, its heavier than spruce, but more resistant to rot what do you think? > > Aaron > > --- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Paul Wilson > Subject: Re: [origamiboats] Re:Solar Energy:Grid Parity > To: origamiboats@ yahoogroups. com > Received: Tuesday, August 18, 2009, 6:34 PM > > > > > > > My wind generator worked great if there were no waves at anchor and it > worked great offshore when the boat was rolling and pitching at the same > time. The problem was at anchor with pitching due to a short chop. I > would never have a two blade wind generator again for this reason. If > you look at a two blade generator frozen in time in a pitching boat at > anchor, when the blades are horizontal they are twisting about their > axis. The moment or force is minimal since it is like grabbing the > blade and twirling it with your wrist. When the blade is vertical, it > moves through a great arc with the boat going through a fast pitch. Its > like grabbing the blade a wagging it through the air....much more force > involved. Gyroscopic effects cause the reactive force to react 90 > degrees to actual force so the wind generator vibrates even though > everything is statically balanced.... the forces involved with the blades > vertical are much more than with the blades horizontal. Even with a > perfectly balanced blades, in those conditions, it will shake > everything to bits. A 3 or 4 blade generator doesn't have this problem > since the forces of blades being horizontal versus blades being vertical > are not so great since with 3 or 4 blades spaced around the hub they > cancel each other. The night I lost my wind generator, I was in Suvarov > and it was blowing 25 to 30 knots from the south over a large lagoon and > there were about 6 to 8 foot waves going through the anchorage. The > waves were going right over the deck and the anchor line was trying to > jump out of the bow roller. The gyroscopic effect shook the wind > generator so bad it snapped the 5/8 inch shaft of the motor..... not a > good night, but Suvarov is a wonderful place so it was worth it. :). > > I am not sure why birds liked my wind generator, but about 3 got too > close for comfort... big mess. > > Cheers, Paul > > brentswain38 wrote: > > > > > > So much for the motor cycle idea > > I put my 5 ft diameter blade on a post at the stern so I really have > > to reach to touch it. Not a problem. I packed it's 1 7/8th diameter > > pipe in a 3 inch pipe with lots of foam around it so the noise is > > minimal. Balance it by a string in the middle of the hub. > > Only one seagull was dumb enought hover behind it for a while while it > > was spining. He never got the nerve to check it closer , and I haven't > > see a bird that dense since. > > Brent > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _ > Looking for the perfect gift? Give the gift of Flickr! > > http://www.flickr com/gift/ > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > __________________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Canada Toolbar: Search from anywhere on the web, and bookmark your favourite sites. Download it now http://ca.toolbar.yahoo.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 21021|20939|2009-08-21 01:39:12|tinboat2010|Re: enamel inside?|Pine is less dense and lighter than fir. --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, aaron riis wrote: > > > > --- On Wed, 8/19/09, brentswain38 wrote: > > >  I don't think that pine is any heavier than fir, just would need to dry it slow enough that it doesn't check. wondering  about painting enamel inside the boat on the first layer of epoxy, before the foam, ive got lots of enamel and only about eight gallons of epoxy for the inside. the stuff i tried stuck well so far > Aaron > > From: brentswain38 > Subject: [origamiboats] Re: pine mast? > To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > Received: Wednesday, August 19, 2009, 3:33 PM > > >   > > > > How does it compare, weight wise ,to fir? Anything no heavier than fir is OK ,about 35 lbs a cubic foot.The important thing about grown masts is to avoid beginning the taper until you are 70% above decks, or the top will be too whippy. Otherwise they make a great mast. > Brent > > --- In origamiboats@ yahoogroups. com, aaron riis wrote: > > > > hi, again wondering on your opinions of a solid pine mast I was just thinking the trees grow very straight, its heavier than spruce, but more resistant to rot what do you think? > > > > Aaron > > > > --- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Paul Wilson > > Subject: Re: [origamiboats] Re:Solar Energy:Grid Parity > > To: origamiboats@ yahoogroups. com > > Received: Tuesday, August 18, 2009, 6:34 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My wind generator worked great if there were no waves at anchor and it > > worked great offshore when the boat was rolling and pitching at the same > > time. The problem was at anchor with pitching due to a short chop. I > > would never have a two blade wind generator again for this reason. If > > you look at a two blade generator frozen in time in a pitching boat at > > anchor, when the blades are horizontal they are twisting about their > > axis. The moment or force is minimal since it is like grabbing the > > blade and twirling it with your wrist. When the blade is vertical, it > > moves through a great arc with the boat going through a fast pitch. Its > > like grabbing the blade a wagging it through the air....much more force > > involved. Gyroscopic effects cause the reactive force to react 90 > > degrees to actual force so the wind generator vibrates even though > > everything is statically balanced.... the forces involved with the blades > > vertical are much more than with the blades horizontal. Even with a > > perfectly balanced blades, in those conditions, it will shake > > everything to bits. A 3 or 4 blade generator doesn't have this problem > > since the forces of blades being horizontal versus blades being vertical > > are not so great since with 3 or 4 blades spaced around the hub they > > cancel each other. The night I lost my wind generator, I was in Suvarov > > and it was blowing 25 to 30 knots from the south over a large lagoon and > > there were about 6 to 8 foot waves going through the anchorage. The > > waves were going right over the deck and the anchor line was trying to > > jump out of the bow roller. The gyroscopic effect shook the wind > > generator so bad it snapped the 5/8 inch shaft of the motor..... not a > > good night, but Suvarov is a wonderful place so it was worth it. :). > > > > I am not sure why birds liked my wind generator, but about 3 got too > > close for comfort... big mess. > > > > Cheers, Paul > > > > brentswain38 wrote: > > > > > > > > > So much for the motor cycle idea > > > I put my 5 ft diameter blade on a post at the stern so I really have > > > to reach to touch it. Not a problem. I packed it's 1 7/8th diameter > > > pipe in a 3 inch pipe with lots of foam around it so the noise is > > > minimal. Balance it by a string in the middle of the hub. > > > Only one seagull was dumb enought hover behind it for a while while it > > > was spining. He never got the nerve to check it closer , and I haven't > > > see a bird that dense since. > > > Brent > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _ > > Looking for the perfect gift? Give the gift of Flickr! > > > > http://www.flickr com/gift/ > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________________________ > Yahoo! Canada Toolbar: Search from anywhere on the web, and bookmark your favourite sites. Download it now > http://ca.toolbar.yahoo.com > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > | 21023|20939|2009-08-21 16:39:55|brentswain38|Re: enamel inside?|Some have slopped propylene glycol on the wet wood to displace the moisture and prevent cracking. I have friends who have sailed with a bare wood, grown mast for over 30 years with no problem. It is checked. The water runs in the checks then dries out of the checks, no problem.Sealing water in would be a quick way to make it rot. As long as you have at least 3 coats of epoxy tar inside, you can paint over it with enamel, as long as you put the first coat of enamel on while the epoxy is stil wet. Otherwise it won't stick.Re read the part on painting in my book. Don't skimp on inside paint. Yo don't get a second crack at it if it is inadequate. Brent -- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, aaron riis wrote: > > > > --- On Wed, 8/19/09, brentswain38 wrote: > > > I don't think that pine is any heavier than fir, just would need to dry it slow enough that it doesn't check. wondering about painting enamel inside the boat on the first layer of epoxy, before the foam, ive got lots of enamel and only about eight gallons of epoxy for the inside. the stuff i tried stuck well so far > Aaron > > From: brentswain38 > Subject: [origamiboats] Re: pine mast? > To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > Received: Wednesday, August 19, 2009, 3:33 PM > > > > > > > How does it compare, weight wise ,to fir? Anything no heavier than fir is OK ,about 35 lbs a cubic foot.The important thing about grown masts is to avoid beginning the taper until you are 70% above decks, or the top will be too whippy. Otherwise they make a great mast. > Brent > > --- In origamiboats@ yahoogroups. com, aaron riis wrote: > > > > hi, again wondering on your opinions of a solid pine mast I was just thinking the trees grow very straight, its heavier than spruce, but more resistant to rot what do you think? > > > > Aaron > > > > --- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Paul Wilson > > Subject: Re: [origamiboats] Re:Solar Energy:Grid Parity > > To: origamiboats@ yahoogroups. com > > Received: Tuesday, August 18, 2009, 6:34 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My wind generator worked great if there were no waves at anchor and it > > worked great offshore when the boat was rolling and pitching at the same > > time. The problem was at anchor with pitching due to a short chop. I > > would never have a two blade wind generator again for this reason. If > > you look at a two blade generator frozen in time in a pitching boat at > > anchor, when the blades are horizontal they are twisting about their > > axis. The moment or force is minimal since it is like grabbing the > > blade and twirling it with your wrist. When the blade is vertical, it > > moves through a great arc with the boat going through a fast pitch. Its > > like grabbing the blade a wagging it through the air....much more force > > involved. Gyroscopic effects cause the reactive force to react 90 > > degrees to actual force so the wind generator vibrates even though > > everything is statically balanced.... the forces involved with the blades > > vertical are much more than with the blades horizontal. Even with a > > perfectly balanced blades, in those conditions, it will shake > > everything to bits. A 3 or 4 blade generator doesn't have this problem > > since the forces of blades being horizontal versus blades being vertical > > are not so great since with 3 or 4 blades spaced around the hub they > > cancel each other. The night I lost my wind generator, I was in Suvarov > > and it was blowing 25 to 30 knots from the south over a large lagoon and > > there were about 6 to 8 foot waves going through the anchorage. The > > waves were going right over the deck and the anchor line was trying to > > jump out of the bow roller. The gyroscopic effect shook the wind > > generator so bad it snapped the 5/8 inch shaft of the motor..... not a > > good night, but Suvarov is a wonderful place so it was worth it. :). > > > > I am not sure why birds liked my wind generator, but about 3 got too > > close for comfort... big mess. > > > > Cheers, Paul > > > > brentswain38 wrote: > > > > > > > > > So much for the motor cycle idea > > > I put my 5 ft diameter blade on a post at the stern so I really have > > > to reach to touch it. Not a problem. I packed it's 1 7/8th diameter > > > pipe in a 3 inch pipe with lots of foam around it so the noise is > > > minimal. Balance it by a string in the middle of the hub. > > > Only one seagull was dumb enought hover behind it for a while while it > > > was spining. He never got the nerve to check it closer , and I haven't > > > see a bird that dense since. > > > Brent > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _ > > Looking for the perfect gift? Give the gift of Flickr! > > > > http://www.flickr com/gift/ > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________________________ > Yahoo! Canada Toolbar: Search from anywhere on the web, and bookmark your favourite sites. Download it now > http://ca.toolbar.yahoo.com > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > | 21024|20895|2009-08-21 20:35:32|tinkerbell98683|Re: Solar energy: Grid parity|Just got home after a week out of town with a reply that was clasical Ben. First your short term memory must be failing I explained the spelling was the resault of Liberal education experaments that even adult ed class could not fix. The sad part is the personal atack rather then one about the subject matter. So I am blocked on your list as if I realy care about your polatics. As a friend said he voted for change and when they got done change was all he had left. Jon --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Ben Okopnik wrote: > > On Mon, Aug 17, 2009 at 07:05:19AM -0000, Jon & Wanda(Tink) wrote: > > > > As some one that dose not listen to Rush at all or Fox very often or > > most the main stream media. > > Right, Jon & Wanda(Tink). You've always been the thoughtful, balanced > political commentator here - with spelling and grammar that matches your > brilliance. > > I guess it's time to renew your membership in my trash bin again - this > time, permanently. I'm not even sure why I granted you the privilege of > making it temporary, the last time. Bye-bye, stupid ranter! > > *PLONK* > > > -- > * Ben Okopnik * Editor-in-Chief, Linux Gazette * http://LinuxGazette.NET * > | 21025|19810|2009-08-21 23:40:08|harveyplanes|Anchor Winch|Seeing if anyone would be interested in making an anchor windlass for me.....email me at JIFD@... if you can and how much you'd charge. Thanks! Randy| 21026|21018|2009-08-22 05:21:55|ka0tp|Re: Shinola for sale|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "brentswain38" wrote: > > I see Shinola in Campbell river has a for sale sign on her with the phone number 250-203-0616 . Great boat, well kept, single keel. Don't know what he is asking for her. > Brent > I called him today and unless I misheard him, he is asking $95K. He plans on posting pics here soon. Tom Popp KA0TP Portland, OR| 21027|21027|2009-08-22 06:44:20|madellineframpston|Watch TV on Your PC with this Free Software|Dear Members I am always on the lookout for great freebies and offers to share with family & friends, well, here is one that is worth checking out! Watch TV on your PC...FREE! with this complimentary software! (Sorry that this is only available to our USA members, but I will do some research to see if I can find the same thing for other International members). Access thousands of Free TV stations (Movies, News, Sports, Music & Much More), radio stations and videos from hundred of countries, in many different languages. This amazing software does not contain any Adware, Spyware or third party programs, so go ahead and download FREE TV for Your PC! To View this Great Freebie offer, click the link below: http://groups.google.com/group/collectingfreebies/web/watch-tv-on-your-pc-with-this-free-software I hope you like the info!| 21028|19810|2009-08-22 18:05:54|brentswain38|Re: Anchor Winch|Randy Where are you located? Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "harveyplanes" wrote: > > Seeing if anyone would be interested in making an anchor windlass for me.....email me at JIFD@... if you can and how much you'd charge. Thanks! > > Randy > | 21029|19810|2009-08-22 22:19:21|harveyplanes|Re: Anchor Winch|Hey Brent! I'm in Mississippi. I'm really looking for one of your drum winches. Any way that I can talk you into it? :) I'd love to be able to build it myself,...not to mention one of your boats, but I need to get my current boat finished first.....hopfully soon!!! Randy| 21030|21030|2009-08-23 15:47:25|jonathanswef|Standpipes|I was intending to use keel cooling but all the second hand engines I see are set up with heat exchangers. If I were to use a above the waterline standpipe (I remember some discussion about these for water to heads etc) for the water in, what diameter should I use and should I have some sort of grill over the bottom? What is the successful wasy to do this? Should I weld it to the iside or should I cut it through the hull and weld it inside and out? Jonathan.| 21031|21030|2009-08-23 15:55:29|Paul Thompson|Re: Standpipes|On Mon, Aug 24, 2009 at 7:46 AM, jonathanswef wrote: > I was intending to use keel cooling but all the second hand engines I see are set up with heat exchangers. If I were to use a above the waterline standpipe (I remember some discussion about these for water to heads etc) for the water in, what diameter should I use and should I have some sort of grill over the bottom? What is the successful wasy to do this? Should I weld it to the iside or should I cut it through the hull and weld it inside and out? > Jonathan. Why does the above prevent you from using keel cooling? All you have to do is remove the tube bundle and blank off the ends. Then you are in business. Keel cooling is far superior to pumping seawater through your heat exchanger in every way. The mod is simple and I can confidently say that it is highly unlikely that you will ever regret it. Regards, Paul Thompson| 21032|21030|2009-08-23 16:03:18|John Fuller|Re: Standpipes|I definitely agree with Paul, keep the seawater out out of your pipes. John On Mon, Aug 24, 2009 at 7:46 AM, jonathanswef wrote: > I was intending to use keel cooling but all the second hand engines I see are set up with heat exchangers. If I were to use a above the waterline standpipe (I remember some discussion about these for water to heads etc) for the water in, what diameter should I use and should I have some sort of grill over the bottom? What is the successful wasy to do this? Should I weld it to the iside or should I cut it through the hull and weld it inside and out? > Jonathan. Why does the above prevent you from using keel cooling? All you have to do is remove the tube bundle and blank off the ends. Then you are in business. Keel cooling is far superior to pumping seawater through your heat exchanger in every way. The mod is simple and I can confidently say that it is highly unlikely that you will ever regret it. Regards, Paul Thompson [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]| 21033|21033|2009-08-23 16:57:09|jonathanswef|Re Standpipes|Thank you, I now and then have a crisis of confidence about altering somebody elses design work; I never used to worry but will carry on now as originally planned. Best wishes, Jonathan.| 21034|20939|2009-08-23 17:20:40|martin demers|Re: enamel inside?|HI Brent, will epoxy stick to dry epoxy ( to get a second chance still wet surface)if someone missed to paint on top of still wet epoxy? To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com From: brentswain38@... Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 20:39:37 +0000 Subject: [origamiboats] Re: enamel inside? Some have slopped propylene glycol on the wet wood to displace the moisture and prevent cracking. I have friends who have sailed with a bare wood, grown mast for over 30 years with no problem. It is checked. The water runs in the checks then dries out of the checks, no problem.Sealing water in would be a quick way to make it rot. As long as you have at least 3 coats of epoxy tar inside, you can paint over it with enamel, as long as you put the first coat of enamel on while the epoxy is stil wet. Otherwise it won't stick.Re read the part on painting in my book. Don't skimp on inside paint. Yo don't get a second crack at it if it is inadequate. Brent -- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, aaron riis wrote: > > > > --- On Wed, 8/19/09, brentswain38 wrote: > > > I don't think that pine is any heavier than fir, just would need to dry it slow enough that it doesn't check. wondering about painting enamel inside the boat on the first layer of epoxy, before the foam, ive got lots of enamel and only about eight gallons of epoxy for the inside. the stuff i tried stuck well so far > Aaron > > From: brentswain38 > Subject: [origamiboats] Re: pine mast? > To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > Received: Wednesday, August 19, 2009, 3:33 PM > > > > > > > How does it compare, weight wise ,to fir? Anything no heavier than fir is OK ,about 35 lbs a cubic foot.The important thing about grown masts is to avoid beginning the taper until you are 70% above decks, or the top will be too whippy. Otherwise they make a great mast. > Brent > > --- In origamiboats@ yahoogroups. com, aaron riis wrote: > > > > hi, again wondering on your opinions of a solid pine mast I was just thinking the trees grow very straight, its heavier than spruce, but more resistant to rot what do you think? > > > > Aaron > > > > --- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Paul Wilson > > Subject: Re: [origamiboats] Re:Solar Energy:Grid Parity > > To: origamiboats@ yahoogroups. com > > Received: Tuesday, August 18, 2009, 6:34 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My wind generator worked great if there were no waves at anchor and it > > worked great offshore when the boat was rolling and pitching at the same > > time. The problem was at anchor with pitching due to a short chop. I > > would never have a two blade wind generator again for this reason. If > > you look at a two blade generator frozen in time in a pitching boat at > > anchor, when the blades are horizontal they are twisting about their > > axis. The moment or force is minimal since it is like grabbing the > > blade and twirling it with your wrist. When the blade is vertical, it > > moves through a great arc with the boat going through a fast pitch. Its > > like grabbing the blade a wagging it through the air....much more force > > involved. Gyroscopic effects cause the reactive force to react 90 > > degrees to actual force so the wind generator vibrates even though > > everything is statically balanced.... the forces involved with the blades > > vertical are much more than with the blades horizontal. Even with a > > perfectly balanced blades, in those conditions, it will shake > > everything to bits. A 3 or 4 blade generator doesn't have this problem > > since the forces of blades being horizontal versus blades being vertical > > are not so great since with 3 or 4 blades spaced around the hub they > > cancel each other. The night I lost my wind generator, I was in Suvarov > > and it was blowing 25 to 30 knots from the south over a large lagoon and > > there were about 6 to 8 foot waves going through the anchorage. The > > waves were going right over the deck and the anchor line was trying to > > jump out of the bow roller. The gyroscopic effect shook the wind > > generator so bad it snapped the 5/8 inch shaft of the motor..... not a > > good night, but Suvarov is a wonderful place so it was worth it. :). > > > > I am not sure why birds liked my wind generator, but about 3 got too > > close for comfort... big mess. > > > > Cheers, Paul > > > > brentswain38 wrote: > > > > > > > > > So much for the motor cycle idea > > > I put my 5 ft diameter blade on a post at the stern so I really have > > > to reach to touch it. Not a problem. I packed it's 1 7/8th diameter > > > pipe in a 3 inch pipe with lots of foam around it so the noise is > > > minimal. Balance it by a string in the middle of the hub. > > > Only one seagull was dumb enought hover behind it for a while while it > > > was spining. He never got the nerve to check it closer , and I haven't > > > see a bird that dense since. > > > Brent > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _ > > Looking for the perfect gift? Give the gift of Flickr! > > > > http://www.flickr com/gift/ > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________________ > Yahoo! Canada Toolbar: Search from anywhere on the web, and bookmark your favourite sites. Download it now > http://ca.toolbar.yahoo.com > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > _________________________________________________________________ Attention à tous les Humains. Nous sommes vos photos. Libérez-nous de vos disques durs. http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9666050 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]| 21035|20939|2009-08-23 19:54:28|brentswain38|Re: enamel inside?|Yes if the epoxy is not too old or hasn't had dew settle on it. If it is old it should be lightly sanded for a good bond. When epoxy gets old , first it gets a waxy surface, then, especialy in UV, it chalks. Then it's hard to get anything to stick to it well unless you sand it a bit. Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, martin demers wrote: > > > > > HI Brent, > will epoxy stick to dry epoxy ( to get a second chance still wet surface)if someone missed to paint on top of still wet epoxy? > > To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > From: brentswain38@... > Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 20:39:37 +0000 > Subject: [origamiboats] Re: enamel inside? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Some have slopped propylene glycol on the wet wood to displace the moisture and prevent cracking. I have friends who have sailed with a bare wood, grown mast for over 30 years with no problem. It is checked. The water runs in the checks then dries out of the checks, no problem.Sealing water in would be a quick way to make it rot. > > As long as you have at least 3 coats of epoxy tar inside, you can paint over it with enamel, as long as you put the first coat of enamel on while the epoxy is stil wet. Otherwise it won't stick.Re read the part on painting in my book. > > Don't skimp on inside paint. Yo don't get a second crack at it if it is inadequate. > > Brent > > > > -- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, aaron riis wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Wed, 8/19/09, brentswain38 wrote: > > > > > > > > > I don't think that pine is any heavier than fir, just would need to dry it slow enough that it doesn't check. wondering about painting enamel inside the boat on the first layer of epoxy, before the foam, ive got lots of enamel and only about eight gallons of epoxy for the inside. the stuff i tried stuck well so far > > > Aaron > > > > > > From: brentswain38 > > > Subject: [origamiboats] Re: pine mast? > > > To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > > Received: Wednesday, August 19, 2009, 3:33 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > How does it compare, weight wise ,to fir? Anything no heavier than fir is OK ,about 35 lbs a cubic foot.The important thing about grown masts is to avoid beginning the taper until you are 70% above decks, or the top will be too whippy. Otherwise they make a great mast. > > > Brent > > > > > > --- In origamiboats@ yahoogroups. com, aaron riis wrote: > > > > > > > > hi, again wondering on your opinions of a solid pine mast I was just thinking the trees grow very straight, its heavier than spruce, but more resistant to rot what do you think? > > > > > > > > Aaron > > > > > > > > --- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Paul Wilson > > > > Subject: Re: [origamiboats] Re:Solar Energy:Grid Parity > > > > To: origamiboats@ yahoogroups. com > > > > Received: Tuesday, August 18, 2009, 6:34 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My wind generator worked great if there were no waves at anchor and it > > > > worked great offshore when the boat was rolling and pitching at the same > > > > time. The problem was at anchor with pitching due to a short chop. I > > > > would never have a two blade wind generator again for this reason. If > > > > you look at a two blade generator frozen in time in a pitching boat at > > > > anchor, when the blades are horizontal they are twisting about their > > > > axis. The moment or force is minimal since it is like grabbing the > > > > blade and twirling it with your wrist. When the blade is vertical, it > > > > moves through a great arc with the boat going through a fast pitch. Its > > > > like grabbing the blade a wagging it through the air....much more force > > > > involved. Gyroscopic effects cause the reactive force to react 90 > > > > degrees to actual force so the wind generator vibrates even though > > > > everything is statically balanced.... the forces involved with the blades > > > > vertical are much more than with the blades horizontal. Even with a > > > > perfectly balanced blades, in those conditions, it will shake > > > > everything to bits. A 3 or 4 blade generator doesn't have this problem > > > > since the forces of blades being horizontal versus blades being vertical > > > > are not so great since with 3 or 4 blades spaced around the hub they > > > > cancel each other. The night I lost my wind generator, I was in Suvarov > > > > and it was blowing 25 to 30 knots from the south over a large lagoon and > > > > there were about 6 to 8 foot waves going through the anchorage. The > > > > waves were going right over the deck and the anchor line was trying to > > > > jump out of the bow roller. The gyroscopic effect shook the wind > > > > generator so bad it snapped the 5/8 inch shaft of the motor..... not a > > > > good night, but Suvarov is a wonderful place so it was worth it. :). > > > > > > > > I am not sure why birds liked my wind generator, but about 3 got too > > > > close for comfort... big mess. > > > > > > > > Cheers, Paul > > > > > > > > brentswain38 wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So much for the motor cycle idea > > > > > I put my 5 ft diameter blade on a post at the stern so I really have > > > > > to reach to touch it. Not a problem. I packed it's 1 7/8th diameter > > > > > pipe in a 3 inch pipe with lots of foam around it so the noise is > > > > > minimal. Balance it by a string in the middle of the hub. > > > > > Only one seagull was dumb enought hover behind it for a while while it > > > > > was spining. He never got the nerve to check it closer , and I haven't > > > > > see a bird that dense since. > > > > > Brent > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _ > > > > Looking for the perfect gift? Give the gift of Flickr! > > > > > > > > http://www.flickr com/gift/ > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________________ > > > Yahoo! Canada Toolbar: Search from anywhere on the web, and bookmark your favourite sites. Download it now > > > http://ca.toolbar.yahoo.com > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Attention à tous les Humains. Nous sommes vos photos. Libérez-nous de vos disques durs. > http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9666050 > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > | 21036|21030|2009-08-23 21:08:35|Gordon Schnell|Re: Standpipes|You might also consider using your skeg as a cooler. allow the engine waterpump to pump the hot water into the top of the skeg and pick it up at the bottom of the skeg and return to the engine as coolant. My 40' holds aprox. 11 gallons of water/glycol, more than enough to keep the engine cool under the heaviest loads. Gord On 23-Aug-09, at 12:46 PM, jonathanswef wrote: > I was intending to use keel cooling but all the second hand engines > I see are set up with heat exchangers. If I were to use a above the > waterline standpipe (I remember some discussion about these for > water to heads etc) for the water in, what diameter should I use and > should I have some sort of grill over the bottom? What is the > successful wasy to do this? Should I weld it to the iside or should > I cut it through the hull and weld it inside and out? > Jonathan. > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 21038|21038|2009-08-24 11:48:24|SHANE ROTHWELL|The Seppo|Hey Guys, Most Americans are pretty decent people. The Ozzie term "Seppo" (Rhyming slang for "septic tank", which rhymes with yank & we all know what they are both full of) does not apply to many, but to those it does apply (with NO shaddow of a doubt, that IS Ben!) it does so in spades! So, when 'the wank' replies to anything, or makes any postings, why don't we all just tell him exactly and directly what we figure the value of his contribution to our little community is. Oh ya, and Ben, Please do us all a favor and LEAVE! Shane --- In origamiboats@ yahoogroups. com, Ben Okopnik wrote: > > On Mon, Aug 17, 2009 at 07:05:19AM -0000, Jon & Wanda(Tink) wrote: > > > > As some one that dose not listen to Rush at all or Fox very often or > > most the main stream media. > > Right, Jon & Wanda(Tink). You've always been the thoughtful, balanced > political commentator here - with spelling and grammar that matches your > brilliance. > > I guess it's time to renew your membership in my trash bin again - this > time, permanently. I'm not even sure why I granted you the privilege of > making it temporary, the last time. Bye-bye, stupid ranter! > > *PLONK* > > > -- > * Ben Okopnik * Editor-in-Chief, Linux Gazette * http://LinuxGazette .NET * > __________________________________________________________________ Looking for the perfect gift? Give the gift of Flickr! http://www.flickr.com/gift/ | 21039|21038|2009-08-24 14:40:12|Barney Treadway|The Seppo|Yeah Ben, You and your facts should leave. Calling right wing nutjobs out on their crap and "grammer" isn't fair or balanced. The internets are supposed to be a refuge for the paranoid and ill-informed. And I did hear (honest to god) that blue helmets were spotted again down on the US Mex border, the UN is getting ready to invade again! Barney Treadway barney@... -----Original Message----- From: SHANE ROTHWELL Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 08:48:12 To: Subject: [origamiboats] The Seppo Hey Guys, Most Americans are pretty decent people. The Ozzie term "Seppo" (Rhyming slang for "septic tank", which rhymes with yank & we all know what they are both full of) does not apply to many, but to those it does apply (with NO shaddow of a doubt, that IS Ben!) it does so in spades! So, when 'the wank' replies to anything, or makes any postings, why don't we all just tell him exactly and directly what we figure the value of his contribution to our little community is. Oh ya, and Ben, Please do us all a favor and LEAVE! Shane --- In origamiboats@ yahoogroups. com, Ben Okopnik wrote: > > On Mon, Aug 17, 2009 at 07:05:19AM -0000, Jon & Wanda(Tink) wrote: > > > > As some one that dose not listen to Rush at all or Fox very often or > > most the main stream media. > > Right, Jon & Wanda(Tink). You've always been the thoughtful, balanced > political commentator here - with spelling and grammar that matches your > brilliance. > > I guess it's time to renew your membership in my trash bin again - this > time, permanently. I'm not even sure why I granted you the privilege of > making it temporary, the last time. Bye-bye, stupid ranter! > > *PLONK* > > > -- > * Ben Okopnik * Editor-in-Chief, Linux Gazette * http://LinuxGazette .NET * > __________________________________________________________________ Looking for the perfect gift? Give the gift of Flickr! http://www.flickr.com/gift/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 21040|21038|2009-08-24 14:54:33|Paul Thompson|Re: The Seppo|On Tue, Aug 25, 2009 at 3:48 AM, SHANE ROTHWELL wrote: > Hey Guys, > > Most Americans are pretty decent people. The Ozzie term "Seppo" (Rhyming slang for "septic tank", which rhymes with yank & we all know what they are both full of) does not apply to many, but to those it does apply (with NO shaddow of a doubt, that IS Ben!) it does so in spades! > > So, when 'the wank' replies to anything, or makes any postings, why don't we all just tell him exactly and directly what we figure the value of his contribution to our little community is. > > Oh ya, and Ben, Please do us all a favor and LEAVE! > > Shane Shane, This is totally uncalled for. Ben is one of the most intelligent posters around here. His posts are informative and mostly thoughtful. He also has a sharp and at times caustic wit which he employs to good affect. I have picked up many good hints and ideas from his postings. I also agree with many of his statements (but not all). Just because you are out gunned or disagree with him is no excuse for name calling. If you do not have the intellectual capacity or wit to refute him (why else would you drop to name calling) then I suggest that you remain quite, rather than calling everyone's attention to the fact. Paul Thompson| 21041|21038|2009-08-24 15:17:33|Ben Okopnik|Re: The Seppo|On Mon, Aug 24, 2009 at 06:38:48PM +0000, Barney Treadway wrote: > Yeah Ben, > > You and your facts should leave. Calling right wing nutjobs out on > their crap and "grammer" isn't fair or balanced. The internets are > supposed to be a refuge for the paranoid and ill-informed. [grin] I suppose you're right, Barney - googling for 'obama is satan' and 'healthcare is a communist plot' would certainly turn up a few million foaming-at-the-mouth crazies. It used to be old bag ladies drooling and screaming on the New York subway... now they're all on the Net, and they're drooling and screaming at everyone in the world at the same time! > And I did hear (honest to god) that blue helmets were spotted again > down on the US Mex border, the UN is getting ready to invade again! I've gotta tell you: I'm not worried in the least. I've got my foil-lined propeller beanie close to hand, and I'm not afraid to use it. Even a Martian invasion can't stand up to that. -- * Ben Okopnik * Editor-in-Chief, Linux Gazette * http://LinuxGazette.NET *| 21042|21038|2009-08-24 15:51:28|Ben Okopnik|Re: The Seppo|On Tue, Aug 25, 2009 at 06:53:27AM +1200, Paul Thompson wrote: > > This is totally uncalled for. Ben is one of the most intelligent > posters around here. His posts are informative and mostly thoughtful. > He also has a sharp and at times caustic wit which he employs to good > affect. I have picked up many good hints and ideas from his postings. > I also agree with many of his statements (but not all). > > Just because you are out gunned or disagree with him is no excuse for > name calling. If you do not have the intellectual capacity or wit to > refute him (why else would you drop to name calling) then I suggest > that you remain quite, rather than calling everyone's attention to the > fact. Thank you, Paul - I appreciate that. I've killfiled the trolls in this group shortly after they showed their colors, which makes it much more interesting reading; all they can do is rage impotently, since their moronic drivel never reaches me. It's a very pleasant state to be in. :) -- * Ben Okopnik * Editor-in-Chief, Linux Gazette * http://LinuxGazette.NET *| 21043|21038|2009-08-24 16:06:45|Paul Thompson|Re: The Seppo|On Tue, Aug 25, 2009 at 8:50 AM, Ben Okopnik wrote: > On Tue, Aug 25, 2009 at 06:53:27AM +1200, Paul Thompson wrote: >> >> Just because you are out gunned or disagree with him is no excuse for >> name calling. If you do not have the intellectual capacity or wit to >> refute him (why else would you drop to name calling) then I suggest >> that you remain quite, rather than calling everyone's attention to the >> fact. > > Thank you, Paul - I appreciate that. I've killfiled the trolls in this > group shortly after they showed their colors, which makes it much more > interesting reading; all they can do is rage impotently, since their > moronic drivel never reaches me. It's a very pleasant state to be in. :) > Thanks for the note Ben and congratulations on the new addition to your family, It must have been quite an experience. While I doubt the wisdom of it in this day and age, I hope you and your wife get much joy from your child. Regards, Paul Thompson| 21044|21038|2009-08-24 16:16:42|Ben Okopnik|Re: The Seppo|On Tue, Aug 25, 2009 at 08:06:44AM +1200, Paul Thompson wrote: > > Thanks for the note Ben and congratulations on the new addition to > your family, It must have been quite an experience. > > While I doubt the wisdom of it in this day and age, I hope you and > your wife get much joy from your child. Oh, having kids has never made sense. Except it's not about sense, and never was. :) I guess that encompasses its own kind of wisdom. I've flown airplanes, raced motorcycles, sailed through storms, jumped with a parachute, been in the middle of a shooting (but undeclared) war with bullets flying - and raising kids is the most amazing and exciting thing I've ever done. Nobody ever said that dragging your knee at 140+ mph made sense either... but we humans keep doing that kind of stuff, again and again. I guess it's good training for the heart and the soul. Thank you very much for your good wishes! -- * Ben Okopnik * Editor-in-Chief, Linux Gazette * http://LinuxGazette.NET *| 21045|21030|2009-08-24 17:08:58|ANDREW AIREY|Standpipes|If you are going to use keel cooling would it pay to have some sort of radiator in the cabin,or a calorifier,in the circuit so that you could pump the cooling water one way if you wanted warm air/water and return via the keel,or pump via the keel and return the other way if you didn't cheers Andy Airey Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com| 21046|21030|2009-08-24 17:18:58|brentswain38|Standpipes|I have run my engine water, on its way to the skeg, thru a 2 1/2 gallon hot water tank. It only took about three miles of motoring to get it hot enough for a shower. Some have hooked up a truck heater, which uses the hot water from the engine,to heat the cabin. It works well, but you need to arrange a bypass for when it is hot out, and you don't want the heat in the cabin. It has to be on the outlet side of the engine, as skeg water coming from the skeg is cool. Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, ANDREW AIREY wrote: > > If you are going to use keel cooling would it pay to have some sort of radiator in the cabin,or a calorifier,in the circuit so that you could pump the cooling water one way if you wanted warm air/water and return via the keel,or pump via the keel and return the other way if you didn't > cheers > Andy Airey > > Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com > | 21047|21047|2009-08-25 09:38:01|kerrypracton|Free Summer Samples|Dear Members I am always on the lookout for great freebies and offers to share with family & friends, well, here is one that is worth checking out! Free Summer Samples from Quality Health To View this Great Freebie offer, click the link below: http://groups.google.com/group/collectingfreebies/web/summer-samples-from-quality-health I hope you like the info!| 21048|21048|2009-08-25 13:14:56|prairiemaidca|Insurance on the West Coast of Canada|Hi All: Can those of you with your boats in the water on the west coast of Canada give me some information and tips for marine insurance. I assume Prairie Maid will require a survey to get some form of insurance. In this world I can't imagine not having liabilty insurance but what is really required and what does one need to have and or know to deal with this issue. On the boat name stick on or paint thing I've decided to go the vinyl route. Haven't got a firm price yet but should have something by the end of the week once we tell them the font. Are there any legal requirements for having certain info on my boat other than the registration number? Also is there any placarding required because I have a propane stove and Heater onboard. Thanks: Martin.| 21049|21048|2009-08-25 14:55:05|mark hamill|Re: Insurance on the West Coast of Canada|Pat Anderson Insurance www.patand.com they are insurance brokers I have used for a while. You will need a survey. I have used Western Marine Survey but another might be better if you are looking for a thorough survey. Shelter Island Marina in Richmond might be a good place launch from and to get a survey. One can live aboard in the yard. If you are planning to stay in that area for a bit There are a number of small marinas up the river on the Annacis channel side that have or used to have relatively reasonable rent. Riversbend marina comes to mind 604-526-2548 Donna Neufeld, Office Manager Tri City Property Management Email: officemanager@... The other thing is to just launch the boat and head over to the gulf Islalnds and live up and down the coast. Come up to Courtenay/Comox and moor for free behind Comox Bay Marina in Comox or out in the harbour. Or keep going North til the weather turns-living on starfish and dolphins (ahem). Contact the Coast Guard about the heater shielding?? or the surveyor?? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]| 21050|20881|2009-08-26 00:28:33|sailparpar|Re: Video of Moonflower of Moab Swain 36|hi i sold parpar in malaysia to an aussie guy, who has since continued the journey and sailed to chagos and tansania. i bought a little bigger boat in malaysia, aluminium hull, with a lifting centerboard, so very little draft and easy to put up on the beach (which has been great for finding protected anchorages and scraping the bottom, changing zincs... we sailed from malaysia to sri lanka and across the indian ocean to the red sea and arrived in europe this june. my advice, avoid europe...too many rules and $$$ locky ps: we are leaving the med asap! > > > Hi Locky > When are you guys going to update your site? Did you guys sell parpar and if so what did you replace her with? > I also think its time to update your site too > Carl. :) some of us at the moment can only live vicariously through other "Brentboat" owners sites. (ie. me) > Thanks Rowland > | 21051|21051|2009-08-26 11:51:11|Jonathan Stevens|MOM's Dorades|How did MOM's dorades work out? They looked a neat idea but are they effective? Best wishes, Jonathan. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]| 21052|21048|2009-08-26 12:49:49|donalphilby|Re: Insurance on the West Coast of Canada|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "prairiemaidca" wrote: > > Hi All: Can those of you with your boats in the water on the west coast of Canada give me some information and tips for marine insurance. We just got a quote from Dolphin Insurance in Vancouver. It was recommended around the docks as very reputable and no hassle over claims and supposedly well priced. www.dolphininsurance.com There is an online quote service that might help. Our last insurance was from a US-based company and the Dolphin quote is almost double, but for slightly more coverage. Our former car insurance when we lived in the states was $800 for two cars and two people. Now it is $1400 each for less coverage. And I've never had a claim in forty some years of driving. donal| 21053|21053|2009-08-26 16:17:26|sae140|An origami X-bow ?|Saw a demonstration of an X-bow today - it's performance in heavy seas was staggering - no slamming and no pitching worth speaking of. It has buoyancy low down and no flare. Dunno if the principle could be applied to a leisure yacht ? If anyone's interested in this concept, see: http://www.marinetalk.com/articles-marine-companies/art/Merchant-Ulstein-X-Bow-Applications-ULS00462004TU.html and: http://gcaptain.com/maritime/blog/a-viking-ship-redesigned-for-modern-use/ for starters ... Colin| 21054|21053|2009-08-26 16:29:33|sae140|Re: An origami X-bow ?|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "sae140" wrote: > > Saw a demonstration of an X-bow today - it's performance in heavy seas was staggering - no slamming and no pitching worth speaking of. > It has buoyancy low down and no flare. Dunno if the principle could be applied to a leisure yacht ? > > If anyone's interested in this concept, see: > http://www.marinetalk.com/articles-marine-companies/art/Merchant-Ulstein-X-Bow-Applications-ULS00462004TU.html > and: http://gcaptain.com/maritime/blog/a-viking-ship-redesigned-for-modern-use/ > for starters ... > Colin > Also: http://thisbluemarble.com/showthread.php?t=10625| 21055|21053|2009-08-26 16:43:03|Chris Salayka|Re: An origami X-bow ?|http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zZ_tzndh1U Freedom is Paradise ________________________________ From: sae140 To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2009 1:28:31 PM Subject: [origamiboats] Re: An origami X-bow ? --- In origamiboats@ yahoogroups. com, "sae140" wrote: > > Saw a demonstration of an X-bow today - it's performance in heavy seas was staggering - no slamming and no pitching worth speaking of. > It has buoyancy low down and no flare. Dunno if the principle could be applied to a leisure yacht ? > > If anyone's interested in this concept, see: > http://www.marineta lk.com/articles- marine-companies /art/Merchant- Ulstein-X- Bow-Applications -ULS00462004TU. html > and: http://gcaptain. com/maritime/ blog/a-viking- ship-redesigned- for-modern- use/ > for starters ... > Colin > Also: http://thisbluemarb le.com/showthrea d.php?t=10625 __________________________________________________________________ Looking for the perfect gift? Give the gift of Flickr! http://www.flickr.com/gift/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 21056|21048|2009-08-26 20:16:23|martin demers|Re: Insurance on the West Coast of Canada|how much should we expect to pay for a 36 foot sailboat? To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com From: donalphilby@... Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 16:49:35 +0000 Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Insurance on the West Coast of Canada --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "prairiemaidca" wrote: > > Hi All: Can those of you with your boats in the water on the west coast of Canada give me some information and tips for marine insurance. We just got a quote from Dolphin Insurance in Vancouver. It was recommended around the docks as very reputable and no hassle over claims and supposedly well priced. www.dolphininsurance.com There is an online quote service that might help. Our last insurance was from a US-based company and the Dolphin quote is almost double, but for slightly more coverage. Our former car insurance when we lived in the states was $800 for two cars and two people. Now it is $1400 each for less coverage. And I've never had a claim in forty some years of driving. donal _________________________________________________________________ Internet explorer 8 aide à protéger la vie privée. http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9655573 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 21057|21051|2009-08-26 20:41:29|Carl Anderson|Re: MOM's Dorades|We haven't had a leak BUT we haven't been in heavy seas...yet. We prefer the 4" over the 3" for we get more ventilation. However, when talking with some folks who live aboard full time, they said to make some wooden plugs to KEEP the cold out during the winter. We've worked on MOM pretty much every December & it does downdraft some cold air. BUT our little diesel heater keeps us toasty. This last summer we put a small fan over the bottom of the 4" dorade to draw more air in - Looks like to stay dry - fans are a must. Jonathan Stevens wrote: > > > How did MOM's dorades work out? They looked a neat idea but are they > effective? > > Best wishes, > > Jonathan. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > | 21058|21058|2009-08-27 09:11:38|Garrett Davis|re X Bow|That's a very cool concept.  It appears to take a great deal of forward freeboard to keep from burying the bow.  That works great with a forward bridge design like shown.  I think you would end up with a funny looking boat if it was designed for cruising, although I'd love to see someone try it.  Garrett [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]| 21059|21058|2009-08-27 11:08:35|martin demers|Re: re X Bow|I would be curious to see how, a sailboat with a X bow, would perform in a very rough sea where the wave would crash over the bow and more aft of it. To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com From: davisrg112@... Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 06:11:01 -0700 Subject: [origamiboats] re X Bow That's a very cool concept. It appears to take a great deal of forward freeboard to keep from burying the bow. That works great with a forward bridge design like shown. I think you would end up with a funny looking boat if it was designed for cruising, although I'd love to see someone try it. Garrett [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] _________________________________________________________________ Attention à tous les Humains. Nous sommes vos photos. Libérez-nous de vos disques durs. http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9666050 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]| 21060|21058|2009-08-27 13:06:06|Barney Treadway|re X Bow|Although a broad foredeck would be very very nice compared to the pointy ones. Not to mention the increased living space for the same waterline. Resell value would be the real trick, regardless of performance! martin demers wrote: > > > > > I would be curious to see how, a sailboat with a X bow, would perform > in a very rough sea where the wave would crash over the bow and more > aft of it. > > To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > From: davisrg112@... > Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 06:11:01 -0700 > Subject: [origamiboats] re X Bow > > That's a very cool concept. It appears to take a great deal of forward > freeboard to keep from burying the bow. That works great with a > forward bridge design like shown. I think you would end up with a > funny looking boat if it was designed for cruising, although I'd love > to see someone try it. > > Garrett > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________________ > Attention à tous les Humains. Nous sommes vos photos. Libérez-nous de > vos disques durs. > http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9666050 > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]| 21061|21053|2009-08-27 14:01:16|jonathanswef|Re: An origami X-bow ?|I would love to look at the lines of these ships. The axe bow is certainly used in yacht design but these boats have such a high front. Is that a key part of their success? Jonathan| 21062|21051|2009-08-27 14:04:00|jonathanswef|Re: MOM's Dorades|Thanks Carl, general opinion seems to be you need at least 4"dia for dorades of any sort to be effective. Jonathan. > | 21063|21051|2009-08-27 14:24:49|theboilerflue|Re: MOM's Dorades|someone sugested to me glueing pvc sewer pipe with the screw in plugs into the vent pipe on the inside to fully close the vent. --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Carl Anderson wrote: > > We haven't had a leak BUT we haven't been in heavy seas...yet. > We prefer the 4" over the 3" for we get more ventilation. > However, when talking with some folks who live aboard full time, they > said to make some wooden plugs to KEEP the cold out during the winter. > We've worked on MOM pretty much every December & it does downdraft some > cold air. BUT our little diesel heater keeps us toasty. > > This last summer we put a small fan over the bottom of the 4" dorade to > draw more air in - > Looks like to stay dry - fans are a must. > > > Jonathan Stevens wrote: > > > > > > How did MOM's dorades work out? They looked a neat idea but are they > > effective? > > > > Best wishes, > > > > Jonathan. > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > | 21064|21051|2009-08-27 15:27:34|brentswain38|Re: MOM's Dorades|Put a couple of turns of duct tape arounbd that 4 inch ss tubing , and a 4 inch white pvc cap fits snugly over it inside. Comming home from Tonga , 4,000 miles hard on the wind, I drilled two holes in the pipe inside and hung a tiny bucket under it to catch any a spray that might come thru. It swung to stay under the pipe and worked well. Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "theboilerflue" wrote: > > someone sugested to me glueing pvc sewer pipe with the screw in plugs into the vent pipe on the inside to fully close the vent. > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Carl Anderson wrote: > > > > We haven't had a leak BUT we haven't been in heavy seas...yet. > > We prefer the 4" over the 3" for we get more ventilation. > > However, when talking with some folks who live aboard full time, they > > said to make some wooden plugs to KEEP the cold out during the winter. > > We've worked on MOM pretty much every December & it does downdraft some > > cold air. BUT our little diesel heater keeps us toasty. > > > > This last summer we put a small fan over the bottom of the 4" dorade to > > draw more air in - > > Looks like to stay dry - fans are a must. > > > > > > Jonathan Stevens wrote: > > > > > > > > > How did MOM's dorades work out? They looked a neat idea but are they > > > effective? > > > > > > Best wishes, > > > > > > Jonathan. > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > | 21065|21058|2009-08-27 15:31:32|brentswain38|Re: re X Bow|That much windage foreward could be a problem for a sailboat. It would be easy to do in origami, but you would have a pointed bow. Try it with some cereal boxes and tape. Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, martin demers wrote: > > > > > > I would be curious to see how, a sailboat with a X bow, would perform in a very rough sea where the wave would crash over the bow and more aft of it. > > To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > From: davisrg112@... > Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 06:11:01 -0700 > Subject: [origamiboats] re X Bow > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That's a very cool concept. It appears to take a great deal of forward freeboard to keep from burying the bow. That works great with a forward bridge design like shown. I think you would end up with a funny looking boat if it was designed for cruising, although I'd love to see someone try it. > > > > Garrett > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Attention à tous les Humains. Nous sommes vos photos. Libérez-nous de vos disques durs. > http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9666050 > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > | 21066|21058|2009-08-27 15:38:14|Carl Anderson|rigid boom vang|Has anyone tried a rigid boom vang on a Brent boat? This has been suggested by several sailmakers that we have talked to this summer. Carl| 21067|21058|2009-08-27 21:01:01|Paul Wilson|Re: rigid boom vang|Don't do it. It sounds like a sailmaker wanting to make some money.....I hate rigid boom vangs.....in a sloppy sea they rattle and bang and drive you nuts and are a lot of expense for no reason. Boom vangs put a lot of load on a boom....the forces are immense if your boom ever dips into a wave and you still need a preventer. Keep things simple. With a line from the end of the boom to the rail onto a spring cleat you have the best/cheapest boom vang/preventer possible for a cruising boat. It will never fail, the forces are much less, and the boom will be happy. Cheers, Paul Carl Anderson wrote: > > > Has anyone tried a rigid boom vang on a Brent boat? > This has been suggested by several sailmakers that we have talked to > this summer. > > Carl > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.67/2326 - Release Date: 08/25/09 18:07:00 > > | 21068|21068|2009-08-28 10:11:03|SHANE ROTHWELL|Mom's Dorades|If you go with the plastic plumbing do NOT use white PVC plumbing. the UV will destroy it fast. Use ABS sewer pipe. it's thicker, black, so less UV and should last at least your life time as it's really tough stuff. you can drive a truck over the thick walled 4" pipe with no dammage. Re: MOM's Dorades Posted by: "theboilerflue" haidan@... theboilerflue Thu Aug 27, 2009 11:24 am (PDT) someone sugested to me glueing pvc sewer pipe with the screw in plugs into the vent pipe on the inside to fully close the vent. __________________________________________________________________ Be smarter than spam. See how smart SpamGuard is at giving junk email the boot with the All-new Yahoo! Mail. Click on Options in Mail and switch to New Mail today or register for free at http://mail.yahoo.ca| 21069|21058|2009-08-28 10:31:30|Carl Anderson|Re: rigid boom vang|Paul, How is it that they rattle & bang? Seems that with the tension from the tackle they would be quite firm while being used. Yes you still need a preventer but that is another piece of the running rigging that is on the boat anyway. Also I don't see how a spring inside a tube could be prone to failure. Carl sv-mom.com Paul Wilson wrote: > > > Don't do it. It sounds like a sailmaker wanting to make some > money.....I hate rigid boom vangs.....in a sloppy sea they rattle and > bang and drive you nuts and are a lot of expense for no reason. Boom > vangs put a lot of load on a boom....the forces are immense if your boom > ever dips into a wave and you still need a preventer. Keep things > simple. With a line from the end of the boom to the rail onto a spring > cleat you have the best/cheapest boom vang/preventer possible for a > cruising boat. It will never fail, the forces are much less, and the > boom will be happy. > > Cheers, Paul > > Carl Anderson wrote: > > > > > > Has anyone tried a rigid boom vang on a Brent boat? > > This has been suggested by several sailmakers that we have talked to > > this summer. > > > > Carl > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > > Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.67/2326 - Release Date: > 08/25/09 18:07:00 > > > > > > | 21070|21058|2009-08-28 11:21:35|theboilerflue|Re: rigid boom vang|I just made up my boom vang on my boat, made two fiddle blocks (doubles) out of auminum sheet and chopping block sheaves, on one I attached a cam clutch i got on ebay for twelve bucks bring the total cost up to a whopping 15$. I made a loop out of 3/4" SS rod and welded 3/4" pipe onto the ends and slipped it onto the rod that goes through the mast step the vang is attached in the centre and I put a bunch of other tangs to attached stuff in the future. --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Carl Anderson wrote: > > Has anyone tried a rigid boom vang on a Brent boat? > This has been suggested by several sailmakers that we have talked to > this summer. > > Carl > | 21071|21058|2009-08-28 12:24:30|Carl Anderson|Re: rigid boom vang|Haiden, We already have a tackle type vang. The purpose of a hard vang is to replace the topping lift making reefing a bit easier. That would give us an additional halyard at the masthead (in our current running rigging configuration). Carl sv-mom.com theboilerflue wrote: > > > I just made up my boom vang on my boat, made two fiddle blocks (doubles) > out of auminum sheet and chopping block sheaves, on one I attached a cam > clutch i got on ebay for twelve bucks bring the total cost up to a > whopping 15$. I made a loop out of 3/4" SS rod and welded 3/4" pipe onto > the ends and slipped it onto the rod that goes through the mast step the > vang is attached in the centre and I put a bunch of other tangs to > attached stuff in the future. > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > , Carl Anderson wrote: > > > > Has anyone tried a rigid boom vang on a Brent boat? > > This has been suggested by several sailmakers that we have talked to > > this summer. > > > > Carl > > > > | 21072|21068|2009-08-28 14:32:19|brentswain38|Re: Mom's Dorades|I use the white caps below decks , out of the sun. I agree that only black plastic , or awnings, or sails and sail thread, stand up to UV. Brent In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, SHANE ROTHWELL wrote: > > If you go with the plastic plumbing do NOT use white PVC plumbing. the UV will destroy it fast. Use ABS sewer pipe. it's thicker, black, so less UV and should last at least your life time as it's really tough stuff. you can drive a truck over the thick walled 4" pipe with no dammage. > > > > Re: MOM's Dorades > Posted by: "theboilerflue" haidan@... theboilerflue > Thu Aug 27, 2009 11:24 am (PDT) > > > someone sugested to me glueing pvc sewer pipe with the screw in plugs into the vent pipe on the inside to fully close the vent. > > > > __________________________________________________________________ > Be smarter than spam. See how smart SpamGuard is at giving junk email the boot with the All-new Yahoo! Mail. Click on Options in Mail and switch to New Mail today or register for free at http://mail.yahoo.ca > | 21073|21058|2009-08-28 14:38:02|brentswain38|Re: re X Bow|The red boat in the video has a concave, clipper bow which is notorious for its tendency to stop when it hits a head sea. It doesn't take the extremes of the Xbow bow to make a huge difference. My first two boats had deep V bows, not quite clipper bows , and they both had a strong tendency to get stopped in a head sea. My current boat has a conic outside curve to the bow, and the difference in hitting a head sea is incredible. She simply glides thru with minimum resistance, thru waves which would have almost stopped my first two boats. Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "brentswain38" wrote: > > That much windage foreward could be a problem for a sailboat. It would be easy to do in origami, but you would have a pointed bow. Try it with some cereal boxes and tape. > Brent > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, martin demers wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > I would be curious to see how, a sailboat with a X bow, would perform in a very rough sea where the wave would crash over the bow and more aft of it. > > > > To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > From: davisrg112@ > > Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 06:11:01 -0700 > > Subject: [origamiboats] re X Bow > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That's a very cool concept. It appears to take a great deal of forward freeboard to keep from burying the bow. That works great with a forward bridge design like shown. I think you would end up with a funny looking boat if it was designed for cruising, although I'd love to see someone try it. > > > > > > > > Garrett > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > Attention à tous les Humains. Nous sommes vos photos. Libérez-nous de vos disques durs. > > http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9666050 > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > | 21074|21058|2009-08-28 14:42:21|Paul Wilson|Re: rigid boom vang|The vangs I sailed with had stainless steel pins that were into aluminum fittings at either end...either a welded tab on the boom or aluminum casting on the mast. If they made them properly and every thing was SS into bronze bushings they may be OK. You end up with play at the attachment points on either end and it doesn't matter how much they are tightened down. The pins eventually wear in the aluminum until they rattle and bang when the sail fills and empties of wind in a sloppy sea. The shock loading and wear eventually leads to cracks in the fittings. The noise was so bad on one boat I crewed on that we ended up removing it at sea and just used a line to the rail. I am not sure if the owners ever put the vang back on but we almost deep-sixed it at the time. I am very conservative and prefer the lines on the boom to be out at the end to keep the loads down. With a preventer or vang pulling on the end of the boom rather than 1/3 down the boom there is nothing trying to bend the boom so it is less likely to break. I am in a boatyard right now and there is a boat here that has a cracked boom right where the vang attaches 1/3 along the boom. The boat hit a reef and the shock load was such it cracked the boom. A full gybe could do the same thing. Personally, I can see the advantage of getting rid of the topping lift if you need an extra halyard but don't think a rigid vang is the way to go. Could you keep the present topping lift and use it as a messenger line for a proper halyard in a emergency? On my boat, my topping lift is a fixed wire from the masthead with a block on the end. The topping lift goes from the end of the boom through the block, back to the end of the boom and then along the boom to a cleat near the gooseneck. It works well and frees up a halyard sheave on the top of the mast. Cheers, Paul Carl Anderson wrote: > > > Paul, > > How is it that they rattle & bang? > Seems that with the tension from the tackle they would be quite firm > while being used. > Yes you still need a preventer but that is another piece of the running > rigging that is on the boat anyway. > Also I don't see how a spring inside a tube could be prone to failure. > > Carl > sv-mom.com > > Paul Wilson wrote: > > > > > > Don't do it. It sounds like a sailmaker wanting to make some > > money.....I hate rigid boom vangs.....in a sloppy sea they rattle and > > bang and drive you nuts and are a lot of expense for no reason. Boom > > vangs put a lot of load on a boom....the forces are immense if your boom > > ever dips into a wave and you still need a preventer. Keep things > > simple. With a line from the end of the boom to the rail onto a spring > > cleat you have the best/cheapest boom vang/preventer possible for a > > cruising boat. It will never fail, the forces are much less, and the > > boom will be happy. > > > > Cheers, Paul > > > > Carl Anderson wrote: > > > > > > > > > Has anyone tried a rigid boom vang on a Brent boat? > > > This has been suggested by several sailmakers that we have talked to > > > this summer. > > > > > > Carl > > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > > > Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.67/2326 - Release Date: > > 08/25/09 18:07:00 > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.71/2330 - Release Date: 08/27/09 18:02:00 > > | 21075|21058|2009-08-28 15:26:45|Carl Anderson|Re: rigid boom vang|Paul, I believe that you need to look at the pictures of my boom and decide if your concerns are warranted. If you can't find them on my web site then feel free to buy the PowerPoint presentation I have for sale which has MUCH better pictures of the complete standing rig that is presently on my boat. As to the hard vang, I was looking at the Garhauer models as they are 100% stainless including the mast & boom fittings. I was intending to go with the topping lift arrangement as you have stated below but using the "extra" halyard on the mast was a bit easier for the time being. Carl sv-mom.com Paul Wilson wrote: > > > The vangs I sailed with had stainless steel pins that were into aluminum > fittings at either end...either a welded tab on the boom or aluminum > casting on the mast. If they made them properly and every thing was SS > into bronze bushings they may be OK. You end up with play at the > attachment points on either end and it doesn't matter how much they are > tightened down. The pins eventually wear in the aluminum until they > rattle and bang when the sail fills and empties of wind in a sloppy > sea. The shock loading and wear eventually leads to cracks in the > fittings. The noise was so bad on one boat I crewed on that we ended > up removing it at sea and just used a line to the rail. I am not sure > if the owners ever put the vang back on but we almost deep-sixed it at > the time. > > I am very conservative and prefer the lines on the boom to be out at the > end to keep the loads down. With a preventer or vang pulling on the end > of the boom rather than 1/3 down the boom there is nothing trying to > bend the boom so it is less likely to break. I am in a boatyard right > now and there is a boat here that has a cracked boom right where the > vang attaches 1/3 along the boom. The boat hit a reef and the shock > load was such it cracked the boom. A full gybe could do the same thing. > > Personally, I can see the advantage of getting rid of the topping lift > if you need an extra halyard but don't think a rigid vang is the way to > go. Could you keep the present topping lift and use it as a messenger > line for a proper halyard in a emergency? On my boat, my topping lift > is a fixed wire from the masthead with a block on the end. The topping > lift goes from the end of the boom through the block, back to the end of > the boom and then along the boom to a cleat near the gooseneck. It > works well and frees up a halyard sheave on the top of the mast. > > Cheers, Paul > | 21076|21058|2009-08-28 20:11:26|Paul Wilson|Re: rigid boom vang|Hi Carl, I looked at your website. Your boat looks good. Boom too, almost as good as mine :). I am not sure why you would want a rigid boom vang but it sounds like you have made up your mind. If you are interested, there are couple of shots of my BS36 Opus IV in the photo section of the site. I should add more, I guess. All the best, Paul > | 21078|22|2009-08-29 10:02:06|origamiboats@yahoogroups.com|New file uploaded to origamiboats |Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the origamiboats group. File : /Imagiro Boats./229AApic51.jpg Uploaded by : yvesmariedetanton Description : Compound curve in steel. Stern view of the 39 You can access this file at the URL: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/files/Imagiro%20Boats./229AApic51.jpg To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit: http://help.yahoo.com/l/us/yahoo/groups/original/general.htmlfiles Regards, yvesmariedetanton | 21079|21079|2009-08-29 10:32:27|SHANE ROTHWELL|Rigid Boom Vang|Paul, Your topping lift sounds simple & effective. An ellegant solution, and with control of the lift right where you need it. Cool. Re: rigid boom vang Posted by: "Paul Wilson" opusnz@... opuspaul Fri Aug 28, 2009 11:42 am (PDT) The vangs I sailed with had stainless steel pins that were into aluminum fittings at either end...either a welded tab on the boom or aluminum casting on the mast. If they made them properly and every thing was SS into bronze bushings they may be OK. You end up with play at the attachment points on either end and it doesn't matter how much they are tightened down. The pins eventually wear in the aluminum until they rattle and bang when the sail fills and empties of wind in a sloppy sea. The shock loading and wear eventually leads to cracks in the fittings. The noise was so bad on one boat I crewed on that we ended up removing it at sea and just used a line to the rail. I am not sure if the owners ever put the vang back on but we almost deep-sixed it at the time. I am very conservative and prefer the lines on the boom to be out at the end to keep the loads down. With a preventer or vang pulling on the end of the boom rather than 1/3 down the boom there is nothing trying to bend the boom so it is less likely to break. I am in a boatyard right now and there is a boat here that has a cracked boom right where the vang attaches 1/3 along the boom. The boat hit a reef and the shock load was such it cracked the boom. A full gybe could do the same thing. Personally, I can see the advantage of getting rid of the topping lift if you need an extra halyard but don't think a rigid vang is the way to go. Could you keep the present topping lift and use it as a messenger line for a proper halyard in a emergency? On my boat, my topping lift is a fixed wire from the masthead with a block on the end. The topping lift goes from the end of the boom through the block, back to the end of the boom and then along the boom to a cleat near the gooseneck. It works well and frees up a halyard sheave on the top of the mast. Cheers, Paul __________________________________________________________________ The new Internet Explorer® 8 - Faster, safer, easier. Optimized for Yahoo! Get it Now for Free! at http://downloads.yahoo.com/ca/internetexplorer/| 21080|21079|2009-08-29 14:52:27|Paul Wilson|Re: Rigid Boom Vang|Thanks Shane, A further refinement is to add a piece of shock cord from the block on the end of the wire to the end of the boom. The shock cord keeps the topping lift tensioned so it doesn't chaff the sail but it hasn't the strength to hold the boom up when you slacken it off. Cheers, Paul SHANE ROTHWELL wrote: > > > Paul, > > Your topping lift sounds simple & effective. An ellegant solution, and > with control of the lift right where you need it. Cool. > > Re: rigid boom vang > Posted by: "Paul Wilson" opusnz@... > opuspaul > Fri Aug 28, 2009 11:42 am (PDT) > > The vangs I sailed with had stainless steel pins that were into aluminum > fittings at either end...either a welded tab on the boom or aluminum > casting on the mast. If they made them properly and every thing was SS > into bronze bushings they may be OK. You end up with play at the > attachment points on either end and it doesn't matter how much they are > tightened down. The pins eventually wear in the aluminum until they > rattle and bang when the sail fills and empties of wind in a sloppy > sea. The shock loading and wear eventually leads to cracks in the > fittings. The noise was so bad on one boat I crewed on that we ended > up removing it at sea and just used a line to the rail. I am not sure > if the owners ever put the vang back on but we almost deep-sixed it at > the time. > > I am very conservative and prefer the lines on the boom to be out at the > end to keep the loads down. With a preventer or vang pulling on the end > of the boom rather than 1/3 down the boom there is nothing trying to > bend the boom so it is less likely to break. I am in a boatyard right > now and there is a boat here that has a cracked boom right where the > vang attaches 1/3 along the boom. The boat hit a reef and the shock > load was such it cracked the boom. A full gybe could do the same thing. > > Personally, I can see the advantage of getting rid of the topping lift > if you need an extra halyard but don't think a rigid vang is the way to > go. Could you keep the present topping lift and use it as a messenger > line for a proper halyard in a emergency? On my boat, my topping lift > is a fixed wire from the masthead with a block on the end. The topping > lift goes from the end of the boom through the block, back to the end of > the boom and then along the boom to a cleat near the gooseneck. It > works well and frees up a halyard sheave on the top of the mast. > > Cheers, Paul > > __________________________________________________________ > The new Internet Explorer® 8 - Faster, safer, easier. Optimized for > Yahoo! Get it Now for Free! at > http://downloads.yahoo.com/ca/internetexplorer/ > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.409 / Virus Database: 270.13.71/2333 - Release Date: 08/29/09 06:39:00 > > | 21081|21079|2009-08-29 19:06:53|Carl Anderson|SV MOM web site update|Just a note to all that I've been updating the website with stories from Kate about our trip this summer and now adding some new photos as well. More to come. Carl sv-mom.com| 21082|21082|2009-08-30 18:59:30|inter4905|nonsuch cat rigging|I was looking at pictures of a nonsuch cat rigged sailboat with wishbone and was thinking if it would be a good idea on a Swain boat. anyone? any thoughts?| 21083|21079|2009-08-31 05:27:42|edward_stoneuk|Re: SV MOM web site update|Carl & Kate, Many thanks for the link to your website. I thought it was great. Mostly we enjoy building our boat but there are time when we wonder why we thought it would be a good idea and ask when will it be finished. Regards, Ted & Fiona.| 21085|21085|2009-08-31 09:24:42|SHANE ROTHWELL|Nonsuch Cat rig|Nonsuch Cat Rigs are famous for limping back home with no stick. Think about the forces involved. what would you expect from an unstayed rig? Unstayed rigs work well on wind surfers, but nothing else that I'm aware of, and with a wind surfer, the man is literally the standing rigging... I was looking at pictures of a nonsuch cat rigged sailboat with wishbone and was thinking if it would be a good idea on a Swain boat. __________________________________________________________________ Be smarter than spam. See how smart SpamGuard is at giving junk email the boot with the All-new Yahoo! Mail. Click on Options in Mail and switch to New Mail today or register for free at http://mail.yahoo.ca| 21086|21085|2009-08-31 16:02:08|martin demers|Re: Nonsuch Cat rig|OK, I will stick to my bermudian rig, Martin To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com From: rockrothwell@... Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 06:24:40 -0700 Subject: [origamiboats] Nonsuch Cat rig Nonsuch Cat Rigs are famous for limping back home with no stick. Think about the forces involved. what would you expect from an unstayed rig? Unstayed rigs work well on wind surfers, but nothing else that I'm aware of, and with a wind surfer, the man is literally the standing rigging... I was looking at pictures of a nonsuch cat rigged sailboat with wishbone and was thinking if it would be a good idea on a Swain boat. __________________________________________________________ Be smarter than spam. See how smart SpamGuard is at giving junk email the boot with the All-new Yahoo! Mail. Click on Options in Mail and switch to New Mail today or register for free at http://mail.yahoo.ca _________________________________________________________________ Cliquez moins, discutez plus : nouvel accès à Messenger http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9677414 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]| 21087|21085|2009-08-31 17:50:39|tinboat2010|Nonsuch Cat rig, ready to break ??????|Gary Hoyt's Freedom 40, Cat Ketch, was drafted by Halsey Herreshoff, Block Island Cat Schooners used un-stayed masts for over 100 years. So I guess that all un-stayed masts are destined for failure? Junk Rigs, (Chinese Lug Rig) or any Cat Ketch Rig, or Cat Boat. Van De Stadt's "Swing Rig," Tanton Yachts "Free-Standing Rig," Ganley's "Cat Ketch Rig." Or any other designer, to name a few, Philip Bolger, Kasten Yacht Design, Benford Design Group. All of their un-stayed designs are going to "snap off?" --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, martin demers wrote: > > > > > > OK, I will stick to my bermudian rig, > > Martin > > To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > From: rockrothwell@... > Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 06:24:40 -0700 > Subject: [origamiboats] Nonsuch Cat rig > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nonsuch Cat Rigs are famous for limping back home with no stick. > > > > Think about the forces involved. what would you expect from an unstayed rig? > > > > Unstayed rigs work well on wind surfers, but nothing else that I'm aware of, and with a wind surfer, the man is literally the standing rigging... > > > > I was looking at pictures of a nonsuch cat rigged sailboat with wishbone and was thinking if it would be a good idea on a Swain boat. > > > > __________________________________________________________ > > Be smarter than spam. See how smart SpamGuard is at giving junk email the boot with the All-new Yahoo! Mail. Click on Options in Mail and switch to New Mail today or register for free at http://mail.yahoo.ca > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Cliquez moins, discutez plus : nouvel accès à Messenger > http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9677414 > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > | 21088|21085|2009-08-31 18:12:41|martin demers|Re: Nonsuch Cat rig, ready to break ??????|what I was asking myself is how it would perform with a Swain sailboat. To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com From: tomw123456@... Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 21:49:34 +0000 Subject: [origamiboats] Nonsuch Cat rig, ready to break ?????? Gary Hoyt's Freedom 40, Cat Ketch, was drafted by Halsey Herreshoff, Block Island Cat Schooners used un-stayed masts for over 100 years. So I guess that all un-stayed masts are destined for failure? Junk Rigs, (Chinese Lug Rig) or any Cat Ketch Rig, or Cat Boat. Van De Stadt's "Swing Rig," Tanton Yachts "Free-Standing Rig," Ganley's "Cat Ketch Rig." Or any other designer, to name a few, Philip Bolger, Kasten Yacht Design, Benford Design Group. All of their un-stayed designs are going to "snap off?" --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, martin demers wrote: > > > > > > OK, I will stick to my bermudian rig, > > Martin > > To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > From: rockrothwell@... > Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 06:24:40 -0700 > Subject: [origamiboats] Nonsuch Cat rig > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nonsuch Cat Rigs are famous for limping back home with no stick. > > > > Think about the forces involved. what would you expect from an unstayed rig? > > > > Unstayed rigs work well on wind surfers, but nothing else that I'm aware of, and with a wind surfer, the man is literally the standing rigging... > > > > I was looking at pictures of a nonsuch cat rigged sailboat with wishbone and was thinking if it would be a good idea on a Swain boat. > > > > __________________________________________________________ > > Be smarter than spam. See how smart SpamGuard is at giving junk email the boot with the All-new Yahoo! Mail. Click on Options in Mail and switch to New Mail today or register for free at http://mail.yahoo.ca > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________________ > Cliquez moins, discutez plus : nouvel accès à Messenger > http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9677414 > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > _________________________________________________________________ Nouveau : connexion à Messenger par MSN http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9677413 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 21089|21085|2009-08-31 21:43:39|Paul Wilson|Re: Nonsuch Cat rig, ready to break ??????|There was a round the world race boat with unstayed masts...Lady Pepperell pitch-poled and sunk but the mast stayed up in the 1982-83 BOC....a pretty tough test. http://www.sponbergyachtdesign.com/Project%20Amazon%20PBB.pdf I wouldn't discount an unstayed rig for structural reasons as long is it is properly engineered. It is better to have a properly engineered rig than a poor rig no matter how it is done and there are very well engineered unstayed rigs. My big argument against unstayed rigs is it limits the sail combinations you can have since you can't have the wide variety of head sails possible with a stayed rig. I think performance over a wide variety of wind conditions would be less, particularly in light airs. Cheers, Paul tinboat2010 wrote: > > > Gary Hoyt's Freedom 40, Cat Ketch, was drafted by Halsey Herreshoff, > Block Island Cat Schooners used un-stayed masts for over 100 years. > So I guess that all un-stayed masts are destined for failure? Junk > Rigs, (Chinese Lug Rig) or any Cat Ketch Rig, or Cat Boat. > Van De Stadt's "Swing Rig," Tanton Yachts "Free-Standing Rig," > Ganley's "Cat Ketch Rig." > Or any other designer, to name a few, Philip Bolger, Kasten Yacht > Design, Benford Design Group. All of their un-stayed designs are going > to "snap off?" > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > , martin demers > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > OK, I will stick to my bermudian rig, > > > > Martin > > > > To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > From: rockrothwell@... > > Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 06:24:40 -0700 > > Subject: [origamiboats] Nonsuch Cat rig > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nonsuch Cat Rigs are famous for limping back home with no stick. > > > > > > > > Think about the forces involved. what would you expect from an > unstayed rig? > > > > > > > > Unstayed rigs work well on wind surfers, but nothing else that I'm > aware of, and with a wind surfer, the man is literally the standing > rigging... > > > > > > > > I was looking at pictures of a nonsuch cat rigged sailboat with > wishbone and was thinking if it would be a good idea on a Swain boat. > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________________ > > > > Be smarter than spam. See how smart SpamGuard is at giving junk > email the boot with the All-new Yahoo! Mail. Click on Options in Mail > and switch to New Mail today or register for free at > http://mail.yahoo.ca > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________________ > > Cliquez moins, discutez plus : nouvel accès à Messenger > > http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9677414 > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.409 / Virus Database: 270.13.72/2337 - Release Date: 08/31/09 05:50:00 > > | 21090|21090|2009-08-31 23:24:26|akenai|BS36 Engine size|Since I still have not made a final descision for what motor to use wether an electric or not I found a 30 hp yanmar close to home and maybe a good price also but the question is if the motor is an addiquite size. Will a 3QM30(H) be an exceptable size motor for BS36 ? The motor and transmision weights in at 600 lbs and is only 30 HP. Aaron| 21091|21085|2009-09-01 07:04:20|sae140|Re: Nonsuch Cat rig|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, SHANE ROTHWELL wrote: > > Nonsuch Cat Rigs are famous for limping back home with no stick. > > Think about the forces involved. what would you expect from an unstayed rig? > > Unstayed rigs work well on wind surfers, but nothing else that I'm aware of, 99.9% of all junk rigs. I've also seen photos of some turn-of-the-century gaff-rigged Dutch fishing boats with unstayed masts.| 21093|21093|2009-09-01 11:28:06|SHANE ROTHWELL|Nonsuch Cat Rig|Hi Tinboat, No offence, but I get the impression you may be reading just a bit more into my previous posting on this than intended. Please read it again as I very specifically did not say that all unstayed rigs are ready to fall down even though the Nonsuch is well known for it. does a wind sailor have standing rigging, other than a man literally standing and holding it up, that I may have missed? Sure there are going to be some that work, but as I said, what would you expect? "Conventinal" stayed rigs that are properly built & maintained are well known for staying where they belong . Hundreds of millions of them. What is the history with unstayed rigs? couple of hundred, maybe couple of thousand.....and whilst they have their adherants, they also have a reputation......and proportionally, if just one unstayed rig goes over side, to copare it to a conventional rig, we would have to see what, 5,ooo? 10,000? rigs go over side. you have never heard of an unstayed rig going overside? With the exception of seeing the resluts of one, and hearing of several others goving over side I have no experience with unstayed rigs. Sounds like you have heaps of experience. If it works for you, great, and if you want to sail one, go for it. At the same time, just because a technology/ideaology has those who swear by it - ususally the guy who designed it or a sales man - does not make it right. You know, like from '39-44 in Europe there were a lot of people who were completely convinced THEY were the 'Master Race' and went to much....er...effort to....er.....'prove' it. Again, think of the stresses involved. What would you expect? If you want to have one, great, I hope you don't end up a statistic. Shane tinboat2010 wrote: > > > Gary Hoyt's Freedom 40, Cat Ketch, was drafted by Halsey Herreshoff, > Block Island Cat Schooners used un-stayed masts for over 100 years. > So I guess that all un-stayed masts are destined for failure? Junk > Rigs, (Chinese Lug Rig) or any Cat Ketch Rig, or Cat Boat. > Van De Stadt's "Swing Rig," Tanton Yachts "Free-Standing Rig," > Ganley's "Cat Ketch Rig." > Or any other designer, to name a few, Philip Bolger, Kasten Yacht > Design, Benford Design Group. All of their un-stayed designs are going > to "snap off?" > __________________________________________________________________ The new Internet Explorer® 8 - Faster, safer, easier. Optimized for Yahoo! Get it Now for Free! at http://downloads.yahoo.com/ca/internetexplorer/| 21094|21090|2009-09-01 13:31:23|theboilerflue|Re: BS36 Engine size|I have a 20hp in mine it moves me at hull speed just fine it may be a different case bashing through waves and fighting a current I'm not sure yet but it's moved me pretty good so far. Colvin recommends .5hp per ton (or was it sized up to 1hp/ton) and my 36 weighed in at just under 10tons when i launched. so maybe i'm over powered :) --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "akenai" wrote: > > > Since I still have not made a final descision for what motor to use wether an electric or not I found a 30 hp yanmar close to home and maybe a good price also but the question is if the motor is an addiquite size. > Will a 3QM30(H) be an exceptable size motor for BS36 ? The motor and transmision weights in at 600 lbs and is only 30 HP. > Aaron > | 21095|21095|2009-09-01 19:21:49|prairiemaidca|Engine size|Hi Aaron: I hope that was a typo in your post as to the weight of the engine and gear at 600lbs. I can't imagine a 30hp. yanmar weighing in at more than 300lbs with out the gear. I may be wrong but I'm just going by Prairie Maids 54hp Isuzu at 397 lbs. Martin.| 21096|21085|2009-09-01 20:02:01|tinboat2010|Re: Nonsuch Cat rig, ready to break ??????|Thanks Paul I Google'd "project amazon and the unstayed mast," and there's some really interesting stuff. The one thing that always get's me is the emphasis on "performance." We all want performance, but you could just about build an entire Swain boat for the cost of a Carbon fiber mast. To me, the idea is to enjoy cruising, and that means the less time and money spent on maintenance, the better. The easier to reef and handle, the better. The less "canvas in the inventory," (number of sails) the better. Despite Brent's distain for them, the Junk rig (Chinese Lugsail) has been around for who knows how long, (1000's of years) and like, sae140 said, 99.9% of them are unstayed. There's been many changes and "updates" in the last 20 years. Designers like Hasler, and McLeod have done a lot to advance the rig. Now, there's some boats that are holding there own while racing around the buoy's. But, we're talking about cruising, simplicity, ease of handling and maintenance. The Chinese Lugsail definitely has some big benefits for the cruiser. And now there's a bunch of designers working on variations of the Cat Ketch rig, (Non-Such) another old design that's simple and easy to use. Would a Non-such (Cat Ketch) work on a Swain boat? How about getting in touch with the people that have Junk rigged Swain's, maybe they could give you some insight. Every boat design and every rig, is a compromise. If you have the opportunity to grab a used rig, that's great. If not, you just have to sit down, do your research, and find what fits you. Rockrothwell, no offence taken, that's what this site is for. Opinions, ideas and tips, (Brent's tips are great) then do our own research, (The library, Amazon, Google's not the only search engine) and use what works best for our own situation. I don't have as much experience as you guy's, but way back, I helped, a friend of a friend, change an oil filter. Two people to change an oil filter? At the time I was young, skinny and enough of a contortionist, to hang over the top of his engine to reach the damn thing. I sailed on a friends Trimaran a few times. I don't want one, but the room and the bunks were incredible, sailed an old wood sloop that was a dismal cave, sailed on one boat where, I swear, one third of the boat was taken up with sail bags, he had a sail for every course and every wind speed, he changed sails every half an hour, (Well, .... more or less) And it didn't take long to get real tired of changing sails! And on and on, but like this site, all good lessons, and notches in my learning curve. Tinboat --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Paul Wilson wrote: > > There was a round the world race boat with unstayed masts...Lady > Pepperell pitch-poled and sunk but the mast stayed up in the 1982-83 > BOC....a pretty tough test. > > http://www.sponbergyachtdesign.com/Project%20Amazon%20PBB.pdf > > I wouldn't discount an unstayed rig for structural reasons as long is it > is properly engineered. It is better to have a properly engineered rig > than a poor rig no matter how it is done and there are very well > engineered unstayed rigs. My big argument against unstayed rigs is it > limits the sail combinations you can have since you can't have the wide > variety of head sails possible with a stayed rig. I think performance > over a wide variety of wind conditions would be less, particularly in > light airs. > > Cheers, Paul > > tinboat2010 wrote: > > > > > > Gary Hoyt's Freedom 40, Cat Ketch, was drafted by Halsey Herreshoff, > > Block Island Cat Schooners used un-stayed masts for over 100 years. > > So I guess that all un-stayed masts are destined for failure? Junk > > Rigs, (Chinese Lug Rig) or any Cat Ketch Rig, or Cat Boat. > > Van De Stadt's "Swing Rig," Tanton Yachts "Free-Standing Rig," > > Ganley's "Cat Ketch Rig." > > Or any other designer, to name a few, Philip Bolger, Kasten Yacht > > Design, Benford Design Group. All of their un-stayed designs are going > > to "snap off?" > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > , martin demers > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > OK, I will stick to my bermudian rig, > > > > > > Martin > > > > > > To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > > From: rockrothwell@ > > > Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 06:24:40 -0700 > > > Subject: [origamiboats] Nonsuch Cat rig > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nonsuch Cat Rigs are famous for limping back home with no stick. > > > > > > > > > > > > Think about the forces involved. what would you expect from an > > unstayed rig? > > > > > > > > > > > > Unstayed rigs work well on wind surfers, but nothing else that I'm > > aware of, and with a wind surfer, the man is literally the standing > > rigging... > > > > > > > > > > > > I was looking at pictures of a nonsuch cat rigged sailboat with > > wishbone and was thinking if it would be a good idea on a Swain boat. > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________________ > > > > > > Be smarter than spam. See how smart SpamGuard is at giving junk > > email the boot with the All-new Yahoo! Mail. Click on Options in Mail > > and switch to New Mail today or register for free at > > http://mail.yahoo.ca > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________________ > > > Cliquez moins, discutez plus : nouvel accès à Messenger > > > http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9677414 > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > > Version: 8.5.409 / Virus Database: 270.13.72/2337 - Release Date: 08/31/09 05:50:00 > > > > > | 21097|21090|2009-09-01 20:21:48|Carl Anderson|Re: BS36 Engine size|Be sure to do dry exhaust- we're 54 horse & happy about that. sv=mom.com akenai wrote: > > > > Since I still have not made a final descision for what motor to use > wether an electric or not I found a 30 hp yanmar close to home and maybe > a good price also but the question is if the motor is an addiquite size. > Will a 3QM30(H) be an exceptable size motor for BS36 ? The motor and > transmision weights in at 600 lbs and is only 30 HP. > Aaron > > | 21098|21095|2009-09-01 21:19:39|Aaron Williams|Re: Engine size|I wish it was a typo but it comes from yanmar's web site. Its a 1980's modle cast iron block I have been keeping an eye out for an Isuzu, nothing in my area so far. I have seen some Perkins in the Seattle area on Craiglist and E-bay but no Isuzu's or Yanmar in the 40 to 50 HP range. I think just to ship one up here will be close to $1000 alone. --- On Tue, 9/1/09, prairiemaidca wrote: From: prairiemaidca Subject: [origamiboats] Engine size To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, September 1, 2009, 3:21 PM   Hi Aaron: I hope that was a typo in your post as to the weight of the engine and gear at 600lbs. I can't imagine a 30hp. yanmar weighing in at more than 300lbs with out the gear. I may be wrong but I'm just going by Prairie Maids 54hp Isuzu at 397 lbs. Martin. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 21099|21095|2009-09-01 21:52:44|prairiemaidca|Engine size|Hi Aaron: I guess they made them out of sterner stuff 20 years ago. I found a site with specs. for new ones and a 30hp yanmar was under 300lbs. I originally had a V.W. for Prairie Maid totally rebuilt and the bell housing machined to accomodate my hurth gear but I couldn't fit the starter into the engine with that size of housing on the gear. Hence the Isuzu. I still have the V.W. in my shop if you or anyone else is interested. Brent convinced me to go with the dry exhaust. Martin..| 21100|21095|2009-09-01 21:56:49|kingsknight4life|Re: Engine size|Martin has a 50 hp VW engine for sale. Rowland| 21101|21101|2009-09-01 22:56:00|prairiemaidca|Roland|Hey Roland: Where you hiding these days? Haven't seen you in a long while. Thought you might be by one day to see how the buid was going. Are you still out here on the prairies or out at the coast working on your own boat? Martin.| 21102|21085|2009-09-01 23:36:11|cumorglas|Re: Nonsuch Cat rig, ready to break ??????|I live in western new york on lake ontario. there is no shortage of nonsuch here. and no history of them losing rigs here. but it could happen. out of the box they came rigged with alot more sail area than you should be using at sea with heavy air. reefing is basically effortless so you are meant to reef early. i have seen stayed rigs go over the side when carrying too much sail and/or being skippered by someone with bad judgement. it could just as easily happen to an unstayed rig. i had the opportunity to sail on one of the first carbon rigged nonsuch delivering it home from the factory. the most enjoyable daysailor i have ever been on. like a giant laser. but dry and with a fridge. and a huge wraparound couch instead of a wet cockpit. but you could build a half dozen very nice bs36's for what that boat cost then. i can't even imagine what it would cost to build now. --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "tinboat2010" wrote: > > Gary Hoyt's Freedom 40, Cat Ketch, was drafted by Halsey Herreshoff, Block Island Cat Schooners used un-stayed masts for over 100 years. > So I guess that all un-stayed masts are destined for failure? Junk Rigs, (Chinese Lug Rig) or any Cat Ketch Rig, or Cat Boat. > Van De Stadt's "Swing Rig," Tanton Yachts "Free-Standing Rig," Ganley's "Cat Ketch Rig." > Or any other designer, to name a few, Philip Bolger, Kasten Yacht Design, Benford Design Group. All of their un-stayed designs are going to "snap off?" > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, martin demers wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > OK, I will stick to my bermudian rig, > > > > Martin > > > > To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > From: rockrothwell@ > > Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 06:24:40 -0700 > > Subject: [origamiboats] Nonsuch Cat rig > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nonsuch Cat Rigs are famous for limping back home with no stick. > > > > > > > > Think about the forces involved. what would you expect from an unstayed rig? > > > > > > > > Unstayed rigs work well on wind surfers, but nothing else that I'm aware of, and with a wind surfer, the man is literally the standing rigging... > > > > > > > > I was looking at pictures of a nonsuch cat rigged sailboat with wishbone and was thinking if it would be a good idea on a Swain boat. > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________________ > > > > Be smarter than spam. See how smart SpamGuard is at giving junk email the boot with the All-new Yahoo! Mail. Click on Options in Mail and switch to New Mail today or register for free at http://mail.yahoo.ca > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > Cliquez moins, discutez plus : nouvel acc�s � Messenger > > http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9677414 > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > | 21104|21093|2009-09-02 08:27:16|audeojude|Re: Nonsuch Cat Rig|This is hilarioius... stayed vs unstayed.... grrrr grrrr... mine is better!!!!! they are both excelent systems for a mast. I have heard of a few unstayed masts coming down. I have heard of a shit load of stayed masts coming down. probably in proportion to how many of each type is out there. In all cases there was something wrong that caused it to happen. Either old or damaged rigging or it wasn't engineered to handle the loads it was asked to take. If your going to use something that isn't considered a industry norm in a application that is industry approved you might want to have the engineering checked to make sure it is built right. Other than that either rig is practical. scott ps. Shane... I just want you to know that I found your master race example both improbable and offensive. What that has to do with sailing and masts I couldn't fathom. Other than implying that anyone that likes unstayed masts is a sleazy sales man and a Nazi to boot. Do you try to offend people on purpose? Maybe before hitting the send button you should take a deep breath go have a coffee break, come back and re-read your post and ask yourself is this going to be a positive for the origami group to read or a distracting off topic negative. If it isn't a net positive then I suggest you recompose it. If anything in your post at all is a personal attack against someone or or looks like it could be construed as a personal attack, then recompose it without that part in it. I'm pretty sure you joined this group because you have an interest in origami boats. Lets keep the conversation about the boats going. If you don't like some aspect of design.. it is enough to say.. I don't like this because " " If someone else disagrees then if you have more evidence that supports your opinion then whip it out... if all you have left is that it is your opinion.. then... let it drop as anything said at that point has no additional value for you or the group.. You already said it once. I'm not trying to attack you and you are by far not the only person on the forum that needs to read this. So to everyone here.. lets talk boats, just because any one or all of us don't agree with anyone else's opinion doesn't mean we or they have to take it personally. Point in fact... I know I am always right and most of the time everyone else is wrong.. But I don't let that bother me!!! It perfectly fine for the rest of you to be wrong :) :) :) I don't need to rub your noses in it or tell you what bad people you are for not believing exactly how I believe :) lol... So back to boats :) > > At the same time, just because a technology/ideaology has those who swear by it - ususally the guy who designed it or a sales man - does not make it right. You know, like from '39-44 in Europe there were a lot of people who were completely convinced THEY were the 'Master Race' and went to much....er...effort to....er.....'prove' it. Again, think of the stresses involved. What would you expect? > > If you want to have one, great, I hope you don't end up a statistic. > > Shane > | 21105|21093|2009-09-02 11:19:40|Barney|Re: Nonsuch Cat Rig|It is especially funny when origami is all about finding another (better?) way to get your boat on the water. A way that may save you money, frustration and let you do it yourself and damn the old stodgy folks who say it has to be done a certain way. Pretty much everyone here believes origami hull construction has merit but move from the hull to the rig and all of a sudden we're back to soapboxes and absolutes. Its simple for me, I don't like tension in a rig when its not being used. It involves higher loads and increased wear and I'm lazy. Because I'm lazy I will trade a higher center of effort for a lower one, and the ability to point higher for the ability to reef while I've been drinking. I plan on going aground a lot and want a shallower draft to let me push the boat back into deeper water and hence can only carry a lower aspect ratio rig. Do I think everyone should be like me? Absolutely not, as much as I love myself (especially when I was a teenager), we learn much from those with different opinions than our own. Cheers, Barney On Wed, 2009-09-02 at 12:27 +0000, audeojude wrote: > > This is hilarioius... > > stayed vs unstayed.... grrrr grrrr... mine is better!!!!! > > they are both excelent systems for a mast. I have heard of a few > unstayed masts coming down. I have heard of a shit load of stayed > masts coming down. probably in proportion to how many of each type is > out there. > > In all cases there was something wrong that caused it to happen. > Either old or damaged rigging or it wasn't engineered to handle the > loads it was asked to take. > > If your going to use something that isn't considered a industry norm > in a application that is industry approved you might want to have the > engineering checked to make sure it is built right. Other than that > either rig is practical. > > scott > > ps. Shane... I just want you to know that I found your master race > example both improbable and offensive. What that has to do with > sailing and masts I couldn't fathom. Other than implying that anyone > that likes unstayed masts is a sleazy sales man and a Nazi to boot. > > Do you try to offend people on purpose? Maybe before hitting the send > button you should take a deep breath go have a coffee break, come back > and re-read your post and ask yourself is this going to be a positive > for the origami group to read or a distracting off topic negative. If > it isn't a net positive then I suggest you recompose it. If anything > in your post at all is a personal attack against someone or or looks > like it could be construed as a personal attack, then recompose it > without that part in it. > > I'm pretty sure you joined this group because you have an interest in > origami boats. Lets keep the conversation about the boats going. If > you don't like some aspect of design.. it is enough to say.. I don't > like this because " " If someone else disagrees then if you have more > evidence that supports your opinion then whip it out... if all you > have left is that it is your opinion.. then... let it drop as anything > said at that point has no additional value for you or the group.. You > already said it once. > > I'm not trying to attack you and you are by far not the only person on > the forum that needs to read this. So to everyone here.. lets talk > boats, just because any one or all of us don't agree with anyone > else's opinion doesn't mean we or they have to take it personally. > > Point in fact... I know I am always right and most of the time > everyone else is wrong.. But I don't let that bother me!!! It > perfectly fine for the rest of you to be wrong :) :) :) I don't need > to rub your noses in it or tell you what bad people you are for not > believing exactly how I believe :) lol... > > So back to boats :) > > > > > At the same time, just because a technology/ideaology has those who > swear by it - ususally the guy who designed it or a sales man - does > not make it right. You know, like from '39-44 in Europe there were a > lot of people who were completely convinced THEY were the 'Master > Race' and went to much....er...effort to....er.....'prove' it. Again, > think of the stresses involved. What would you expect? > > > > If you want to have one, great, I hope you don't end up a statistic. > > > > Shane > > > > > > > | 21106|21095|2009-09-02 11:43:29|donalphilby|Re: Engine size|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "prairiemaidca" wrote: > > I hope that was a typo in your post as to the weight of the engine and gear at 600lbs. I can't imagine a 30hp. yanmar weighing in at more than 300lbs with out the gear. Yammar used to make high torque, slow turning engines that lasted a long time. They weigh more. We have a 10hp Sabb. It weighs 470 lbs. But it has the same displacement as a 27 horse Yanmar. We run the Sabb about 1000rpm, with max 1800 driving a variable pitch prop. The newer Yanmars typically have a top speed of 3600 and run about 2400 cruising, having much in common with outboard motors and appropriate for lighter displacement hulls more common in recent decades. The best things about Yanmars are their manuals and parts availability, both superb. donal| 21107|21095|2009-09-02 11:54:16|martin demers|Re: Engine size|Donal, How would you compare your old 10HP with a more modern and more powerfull engine with the same displacement, performance wise? Martin. To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com From: donalphilby@... Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2009 15:43:20 +0000 Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Engine size --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "prairiemaidca" wrote: > > I hope that was a typo in your post as to the weight of the engine and gear at 600lbs. I can't imagine a 30hp. yanmar weighing in at more than 300lbs with out the gear. Yammar used to make high torque, slow turning engines that lasted a long time. They weigh more. We have a 10hp Sabb. It weighs 470 lbs. But it has the same displacement as a 27 horse Yanmar. We run the Sabb about 1000rpm, with max 1800 driving a variable pitch prop. The newer Yanmars typically have a top speed of 3600 and run about 2400 cruising, having much in common with outboard motors and appropriate for lighter displacement hulls more common in recent decades. The best things about Yanmars are their manuals and parts availability, both superb. donal _________________________________________________________________ Nouveau : connexion à Messenger par MSN http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9677413 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 21108|21108|2009-09-02 12:20:55|donalphilby|The Young Brent Swain|Several days ago I was visiting with someone who has become a special friend of my wife's and mine. She lives nearby and we've been helping out with chores now and again. A dead battery brought me over to the house she shares with her husband Hugh. Her name is Liv Kennedy (pronounced leave). She has circumnavigated once on a beautiful home built boat in the 60s, and cruised extensively later on another home built boat. For many years she was a columnist for Pacific Yachting magazine, interviewing cruisers passing through. She has also written and photographed a book called Coastal Villages. She grew up in villages between Vancouver Island and the continent. While the battery charged, we spent time talking about well known cruisers she has spent time with. Hal and Margaret Roth, Lin and Larry Pardey, Bob and Nancy Griffith (my personal heroes), Susan and Eric Hiscock and many more. "And there was a local fellow, too," she said. "He came from inland. Wanted to go sailing. He was heading off for the South Pacific, but had never been to sea. I asked him if he could do celestial navigation. He said he didn't, but was heading off anyway. He was a really bright guy, but thought that was kind of foolish. Yet he made it. Last I heard he was building boats and had 50 out sailing." She said she interviewed the young lad three times for the magazine and is going to look for copies. Maybe we can post them here for those who think they are too young and/or foolish to just build a boat and go off sailing without experience. donal| 21109|21095|2009-09-02 13:04:18|donalphilby|Re: Engine size|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, martin demers wrote: > How would you compare your old 10HP with a more modern and more powerfull engine >with the same displacement, performance wise? Martin, Different beasts. It is not less powerful, but differently powerful. The 10 horses will push our 11 ton boat at about 5.5 knots in calm conditions at 1000 rpm. About one litre an hour. 18 inch variable pitch prop, no transmission, only a reduction gear. The 30hp is about 900 lbs. We had a mechanic work on it once. It had overheated (operator error when we first got the boat), but smoked a bit. He changed out the piston, cylinder sleeve and rings. He had never worked on a Sabb (a Norwegian company, not Saab) and his initial advice was to just change it for a Yanmar or at least put in fresh water cooling. I was having none of that and besides that engine only had a 100 hours on it. I'd sailed on boats with a Sabbs and had helped install one on an Atkin Eric years ago. The Sabb is one of only a few (Hundestet comes to mind) that is a from-the-ground-up marine engine. Everything can be done to the engine in the boat, including changing the crank. There is no pan. And the cylinders are sleeved, so if you scratch the cylinders, you don't have to change the whole block. After we finished up, he said keep the engine. And forget the fresh water cooling, it was meant for it. And he said it was the only engine he'd ever worked on where every part was not within tolerance, but precisely ON spec. BTW, parts and labor just at $1000, split evenly. When I ordered parts, the fellow in Florida (NA distributor) told they had just stopped manufacturing that engine. When I cried despair, he said not to worry, that they still were making parts for the original Sabb engine made over 75 years ago because they are still in Norwegian fishing boats fishing. It is a different animal from the more technically sophisticated Yanmar. I would definitely fresh water cool a Yanmar, having seen the results of sea water cooling a Yanmar on our last boat. Just not enough "meat" to the engine. But the Yanmar is appropriate for a lighter boat that requires less torque on the prop. And it is easier to find an experienced mechanic for the Yanmar. Sabb is now marinizing more modern Ivecos and another brand and adapting for their variable pitch prop. They also find used engines and rebuild them to full warranty. Hope that helps. donal| 21110|21101|2009-09-02 14:28:33|kingsknight4life|Re: Roland|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "prairiemaidca" wrote: > > Hey Roland: Where you hiding these days? Haven't seen you in a long while. Thought you might be by one day to see how the buid was going. Are you still out here on the prairies or out at the coast working on your own boat? Martin. > Hi Martin LOl I tried to talk Bev into visitng you guys last weekend but we were pretty busy with family stuff. We're still here in Beaumont and will hopefully be by soon, with coffee but no donuts. (We're attempting to cut down on th junk food) How did you get your mast from the coast to here? I thinkj you id it yourself?? I'd like to move my mast from Seattle to "the Island". Rowland| 21111|21111|2009-09-02 14:45:14|kingsknight4life|Coming to the Island this weekend|Hi everyone Bev and I are making a brief trip to the Courtenay/Comox area this weekend. We are in town to deal with some "boat stuff" but I thought it might be nice to enjoy some boat stuff too. Is there anyone out there that might be willing to take a couple of land locked hoping to be sailors out on the ocean for an afternoon? We are admittedly inexperienced but enthusiastic and some even consider us good company. :) It's hard to get out sailing as we are both very busy and obviously far from the ocean so an outing like this would be VERY GREATLy appreciated. It'll do wonders for keeping the fires burning and providing us with more incentive to get our boat finished. Thanks Rowland I can be reached at my email here or at wildcatbjj(AT)hotmail(dot)com| 21112|21112|2009-09-02 14:52:00|prairiemaidca|Mast Transport|Hey Roland: We used an independent trucker that runs to Vancouver all the time. He had a 53ft. flat deck and was comming back from the coast with a load of steel. He lived in ardrossan somewhere and had a family there and the way I read it he had a girl friend or two on the coast. As for the Seattle side that I don't know. With the cost of trucking these days it might be better to store it somewhere on the coast. We are free on the holiday mon. if you two are around. Don't worry about the coffee we might even be able to make the first ever pot on Prairie Maids stove. Martin...| 21113|21095|2009-09-02 16:35:24|gcode fi (hanermo)|Re: Engine size|GREAT post. And very true. One thing stands out from all, or at least some 99% of posts re: engines. Reliability = heavy. ALL old, heavy engines meant for continuous duty, run for very long periods of time. Applies to generators, marine engines, tractors, mining equipment etc. New engines are a significant amounts lighter, and almost certainly far less reliable. They have not, so far, stood the test of time. So far there is no known brand, afaik, with a light durable continuous duty marine engine, expected to last in the 10s of 1000s of hours the old ones did. Second things that stands out, is diesel engines only ever fail if they are not run, or don´t have oil. Lack of use, in sea water, means rust, and that promotes failure. Expected reliability of continuous-duty heavy engines is 3-4 years, 24x7, 365 days a year. In the 20-30.000 hours range. At 5 knots, thats 100.000 miles, or 4 times round the world, non-stop. My conclusion; heavier is better. If buying new, it is often possible to buy a bigger engine, and ask the manufacturer to de-rate it, to run slower, cooler, and for continuous duty. It will be heavier and run longer - One thing to keep in mind - If you will be sailing, you probably dont want to run the engine so much, so ymmv a lot. For a sailboat, I personally would not go to the trouble. For a trawler-style boat, yes. donalphilby wrote: > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > , martin demers > wrote: > > How would you compare your old 10HP with a more modern and more > powerfull engine >with the same displacement, performance wise? > > Martin, > > Different beasts. It is not less powerful, but differently powerful. > The 10 horses will push our 11 ton boat at about 5.5 knots in calm > conditions at 1000 rpm. About one litre an hour. 18 inch variable > pitch prop, no transmission, only a reduction gear. The 30hp is about > 900 lbs. > | 21114|21090|2009-09-02 18:54:27|brentswain38|Re: BS36 Engine size|30 hp is plenty. The last engine I had was a 10 hp with came out of a 36 which had used it for 11 years including a trip to Mexico and back . I switched it for a 22 hp and the difference is marginal. I run the 22 hp at about 10 hp most of the time. 600 lbs is incredibly heavy for an engine that HP . Look for something lighter. Batteries are nowhere near advanced enough to make electric a practical option. Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "akenai" wrote: > > > Since I still have not made a final descision for what motor to use wether an electric or not I found a 30 hp yanmar close to home and maybe a good price also but the question is if the motor is an addiquite size. > Will a 3QM30(H) be an exceptable size motor for BS36 ? The motor and transmision weights in at 600 lbs and is only 30 HP. > Aaron > | 21115|21095|2009-09-02 19:42:32|martin demers|Re: Engine size|I bought two used engines to fit in my 37ft (8 tons) sailboat; an old yanmar YSE 12hp that I got for a cheap price and a newer 24hp yanmar 3 cylinders for more money. If I new the older 12hp one cylinder who is also very heavy(around 360 lbs) for a small engine would do the job of the newer one I would use it instead. Wich one to choose????? To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com From: yahoog@... Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2009 22:35:02 +0200 Subject: Re: [origamiboats] Re: Engine size GREAT post. And very true. One thing stands out from all, or at least some 99% of posts re: engines. Reliability = heavy. ALL old, heavy engines meant for continuous duty, run for very long periods of time. Applies to generators, marine engines, tractors, mining equipment etc. New engines are a significant amounts lighter, and almost certainly far less reliable. They have not, so far, stood the test of time. So far there is no known brand, afaik, with a light durable continuous duty marine engine, expected to last in the 10s of 1000s of hours the old ones did. Second things that stands out, is diesel engines only ever fail if they are not run, or don´t have oil. Lack of use, in sea water, means rust, and that promotes failure. Expected reliability of continuous-duty heavy engines is 3-4 years, 24x7, 365 days a year. In the 20-30.000 hours range. At 5 knots, thats 100.000 miles, or 4 times round the world, non-stop. My conclusion; heavier is better. If buying new, it is often possible to buy a bigger engine, and ask the manufacturer to de-rate it, to run slower, cooler, and for continuous duty. It will be heavier and run longer - One thing to keep in mind - If you will be sailing, you probably dont want to run the engine so much, so ymmv a lot. For a sailboat, I personally would not go to the trouble. For a trawler-style boat, yes. donalphilby wrote: > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > , martin demers > wrote: > > How would you compare your old 10HP with a more modern and more > powerfull engine >with the same displacement, performance wise? > > Martin, > > Different beasts. It is not less powerful, but differently powerful. > The 10 horses will push our 11 ton boat at about 5.5 knots in calm > conditions at 1000 rpm. About one litre an hour. 18 inch variable > pitch prop, no transmission, only a reduction gear. The 30hp is about > 900 lbs. > _________________________________________________________________ Ouverture de Messenger sur le nouveau MSN = plus rapide! http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9677415 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]| 21116|21095|2009-09-02 23:49:18|Paul Wilson|Re: Engine size|An old timer told me to ignore hp figures and as a rule of thumb, only look at displacement. Yanmar gives a high hp figure compared to other engines for the same weight because they run at higher rpm. It looks good in their advertising but no one runs an engine at 3000 rpm. Their larger engines are turbo charged, but who wants that. Don't get me wrong, Yanmar's are good, reliable engines but at lower rpm, compare apples to apples and don't look at the max hp figures written by the advertisers. Try to pick an engine with a good peak in its torque curve at the rpm you want to run it at and it will run very efficiently. I have a 35 hp Isuzu in my 36. It has max hp at a governed 2800 max rpm. The engine was originally designed for continuous duty gensets at 3600 rpm so it should have a long life. I like having 35 hp even though it is probably a little overkill for the 36. Don't forget electrical loads. With a fridge, my alternator puts out 100 amp which can take 3 to 4 hp off an engine. A boat with a simple electric system and small alternator can get by with less. Headwinds, waves, current, trying to get through a pass, charging batteries, this is where you need power. It happens :). You need very little hp to make a boat move at hull speed in flat water with no wind. I once pulled a 40 ton boat at 3 knots with a 3 hp outboard. With a large, coarse prop, you can motor at hull speed at low rpm but you will overload your engine when things slow down and you start punching into waves. I sailed (motored) around for a year or two before I finally figured this out. My 35 hp engine was overloaded and that was the reason for the black smoke and soot all the time on the transom. I now have a smaller prop, and motor at 2000-2100 rpm instead of 1600-1700 rpm. The transom stays clean and I use no more fuel since the engine is running more efficiently. Cheers, Paul martin demers wrote: > > > > > I bought two used engines to fit in my 37ft (8 tons) sailboat; an old > yanmar YSE 12hp that I got for a cheap price and a newer 24hp yanmar 3 > cylinders for more money. If I new the older 12hp one cylinder who is > also very heavy(around 360 lbs) for a small engine would do the job of > the newer one I would use it instead. Wich one to choose????? > > To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > From: yahoog@... > Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2009 22:35:02 +0200 > Subject: Re: [origamiboats] Re: Engine size > > GREAT post. > > And very true. > > One thing stands out from all, or at least some 99% of posts re: engines. > > Reliability = heavy. > > ALL old, heavy engines meant for continuous duty, run for very long > > periods of time. > > Applies to generators, marine engines, tractors, mining equipment etc. > > New engines are a significant amounts lighter, and almost certainly far > > less reliable. > > They have not, so far, stood the test of time. So far there is no known > > brand, afaik, with a light durable continuous duty marine engine, > > expected to last in the 10s of 1000s of hours the old ones did. > > Second things that stands out, is diesel engines only ever fail if they > > are not run, or don´t have oil. > > Lack of use, in sea water, means rust, and that promotes failure. > > Expected reliability of continuous-duty heavy engines is 3-4 years, > > 24x7, 365 days a year. > > In the 20-30.000 hours range. > > At 5 knots, thats 100.000 miles, or 4 times round the world, non-stop. > > My conclusion; > > heavier is better. > > If buying new, it is often possible to buy a bigger engine, and ask the > > manufacturer to de-rate it, to run slower, cooler, and for continuous > duty. > > It will be heavier and run longer - > > One thing to keep in mind - If you will be sailing, you probably dont > > want to run the engine so much, so ymmv a lot. > > For a sailboat, I personally would not go to the trouble. > > For a trawler-style boat, yes. > > donalphilby wrote: > > > > > > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > > > , martin demers > > > wrote: > > > > How would you compare your old 10HP with a more modern and more > > > powerfull engine >with the same displacement, performance wise? > > > > > > Martin, > > > > > > Different beasts. It is not less powerful, but differently powerful. > > > The 10 horses will push our 11 ton boat at about 5.5 knots in calm > > > conditions at 1000 rpm. About one litre an hour. 18 inch variable > > > pitch prop, no transmission, only a reduction gear. The 30hp is about > > > 900 lbs. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________________ > Ouverture de Messenger sur le nouveau MSN = plus rapide! > http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9677415 > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.409 / Virus Database: 270.13.75/2341 - Release Date: 09/02/09 05:50:00 > > | 21117|21093|2009-09-03 11:48:22|SHANE ROTHWELL|Nonsuch Cat Rig|Scott, I agree , it is hilarious. The guy asked for opinions on rigs and recieved a few. Including mine. Obviously I'm not an adherant to the cat rig It would REALLY help if you took the time to READ and COMPREHEND messages before you come out fighting. Please read it again, the last paragraph of mine you coppied at the bottom of your last posting. All I said was "just because a technology/ideaolog y has those who swear by it - ususally the guy who designed it or a sales man - does not make it right. The analogy to the Nazi's was to give an example of how insane/stupid the masses can be. Exactly where did I say that anyone who had a cat rig was a Nazi or anything of the sort????? How bloody rediculous. If you still take offence to the refrence to the Nazi's, well I take particular offence to genocide. What's your problem, a Germanic background combined with a superiority complex with just a bit of guilt? Or perhaps Just a little tiny bit of an over reaction don't you think? Or maybe you made a mistake and didn't think this time? Chill Man, (and maybe read messages before exploding and hitting the send button .......just like you said. Shane Posted by: "audeojude" audeojude@... audeojude Wed Sep 2, 2009 5:27 am (PDT) This is hilarioius.. . stayed vs unstayed.... grrrr grrrr... mine is better!!!!! they are both excelent systems for a mast. I have heard of a few unstayed masts coming down. I have heard of a shit load of stayed masts coming down. probably in proportion to how many of each type is out there. In all cases there was something wrong that caused it to happen. Either old or damaged rigging or it wasn't engineered to handle the loads it was asked to take. If your going to use something that isn't considered a industry norm in a application that is industry approved you might want to have the engineering checked to make sure it is built right. Other than that either rig is practical. scott ps. Shane... I just want you to know that I found your master race example both improbable and offensive. What that has to do with sailing and masts I couldn't fathom. Other than implying that anyone that likes unstayed masts is a sleazy sales man and a Nazi to boot. Do you try to offend people on purpose? Maybe before hitting the send button you should take a deep breath go have a coffee break, come back and re-read your post and ask yourself is this going to be a positive for the origami group to read or a distracting off topic negative. If it isn't a net positive then I suggest you recompose it. If anything in your post at all is a personal attack against someone or or looks like it could be construed as a personal attack, then recompose it without that part in it. I'm pretty sure you joined this group because you have an interest in origami boats. Lets keep the conversation about the boats going. If you don't like some aspect of design.. it is enough to say.. I don't like this because " " If someone else disagrees then if you have more evidence that supports your opinion then whip it out... if all you have left is that it is your opinion.. then... let it drop as anything said at that point has no additional value for you or the group.. You already said it once. I'm not trying to attack you and you are by far not the only person on the forum that needs to read this. So to everyone here.. lets talk boats, just because any one or all of us don't agree with anyone else's opinion doesn't mean we or they have to take it personally. Point in fact... I know I am always right and most of the time everyone else is wrong.. But I don't let that bother me!!! It perfectly fine for the rest of you to be wrong :) :) :) I don't need to rub your noses in it or tell you what bad people you are for not believing exactly how I believe :) lol... So back to boats :) > > At the same time, just because a technology/ideaolog y has those who swear by it - ususally the guy who designed it or a sales man - does not make it right. You know, like from '39-44 in Europe there were a lot of people who were completely convinced THEY were the 'Master Race' and went to much....er.. .effort to....er.... .'prove' it. Again, think of the stresses involved. What would you expect? > > If you want to have one, great, I hope you don't end up a statistic. > > Shane > __________________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Canada Toolbar: Search from anywhere on the web, and bookmark your favourite sites. Download it now http://ca.toolbar.yahoo.com| 21118|21095|2009-09-03 12:36:45|silascrosby|Re: Engine size|Paul , do you have an Isuzu C240 ? Mine has 4100 hrs on it with no failures. I run mine at 1600 to 1800 rpm but perhaps I should push it a bit harder. A crab fisherman here in Courtenay finally changed out his C240 genset at 30,000 hrs.Different service, for sure. The C240 is rated at 49 hp cont but I am probably using about 25-30 hp. A recent rig problem off Cape Cook meant I had to motor into head seas and wind and current for 25 miles to Kyuquot. We were able to do 4-5 knots despite the conditions at 1900 to 2000 rpm. Using a 17" x 16" 3 blade prop with hurth 250 ~2:1 reduction. Zero regrets at having the hp at my disposal , and I do tend to sail to windward a lot (hence the rig problem). Not a gentleman. cheers , Steve --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Paul Wilson wrote: > > An old timer told me to ignore hp figures and as a rule of thumb, only > look at displacement. Yanmar gives a high hp figure compared to other > engines for the same weight because they run at higher rpm. It looks > good in their advertising but no one runs an engine at 3000 rpm. Their > larger engines are turbo charged, but who wants that. Don't get me > wrong, Yanmar's are good, reliable engines but at lower rpm, compare > apples to apples and don't look at the max hp figures written by the > advertisers. Try to pick an engine with a good peak in its torque curve > at the rpm you want to run it at and it will run very efficiently. I > have a 35 hp Isuzu in my 36. It has max hp at a governed 2800 max rpm. > The engine was originally designed for continuous duty gensets at 3600 > rpm so it should have a long life. I like having 35 hp even though it > is probably a little overkill for the 36. Don't forget electrical > loads. With a fridge, my alternator puts out 100 amp which can take 3 > to 4 hp off an engine. A boat with a simple electric system and small > alternator can get by with less. > > Headwinds, waves, current, trying to get through a pass, charging > batteries, this is where you need power. It happens :). You need very > little hp to make a boat move at hull speed in flat water with no wind. > I once pulled a 40 ton boat at 3 knots with a 3 hp outboard. With a > large, coarse prop, you can motor at hull speed at low rpm but you will > overload your engine when things slow down and you start punching into > waves. I sailed (motored) around for a year or two before I finally > figured this out. My 35 hp engine was overloaded and that was the reason > for the black smoke and soot all the time on the transom. I now have a > smaller prop, and motor at 2000-2100 rpm instead of 1600-1700 rpm. The > transom stays clean and I use no more fuel since the engine is running > more efficiently. > > Cheers, Paul > > martin demers wrote: > > > > > > > > > > I bought two used engines to fit in my 37ft (8 tons) sailboat; an old > > yanmar YSE 12hp that I got for a cheap price and a newer 24hp yanmar 3 > > cylinders for more money. If I new the older 12hp one cylinder who is > > also very heavy(around 360 lbs) for a small engine would do the job of > > the newer one I would use it instead. Wich one to choose????? > > > > To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > From: yahoog@... > > Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2009 22:35:02 +0200 > > Subject: Re: [origamiboats] Re: Engine size > > > > GREAT post. > > > > And very true. > > > > One thing stands out from all, or at least some 99% of posts re: engines. > > > > Reliability = heavy. > > > > ALL old, heavy engines meant for continuous duty, run for very long > > > > periods of time. > > > > Applies to generators, marine engines, tractors, mining equipment etc. > > > > New engines are a significant amounts lighter, and almost certainly far > > > > less reliable. > > > > They have not, so far, stood the test of time. So far there is no known > > > > brand, afaik, with a light durable continuous duty marine engine, > > > > expected to last in the 10s of 1000s of hours the old ones did. > > > > Second things that stands out, is diesel engines only ever fail if they > > > > are not run, or don´t have oil. > > > > Lack of use, in sea water, means rust, and that promotes failure. > > > > Expected reliability of continuous-duty heavy engines is 3-4 years, > > > > 24x7, 365 days a year. > > > > In the 20-30.000 hours range. > > > > At 5 knots, thats 100.000 miles, or 4 times round the world, non-stop. > > > > My conclusion; > > > > heavier is better. > > > > If buying new, it is often possible to buy a bigger engine, and ask the > > > > manufacturer to de-rate it, to run slower, cooler, and for continuous > > duty. > > > > It will be heavier and run longer - > > > > One thing to keep in mind - If you will be sailing, you probably dont > > > > want to run the engine so much, so ymmv a lot. > > > > For a sailboat, I personally would not go to the trouble. > > > > For a trawler-style boat, yes. > > > > donalphilby wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > , martin demers > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > How would you compare your old 10HP with a more modern and more > > > > > powerfull engine >with the same displacement, performance wise? > > > > > > > > > > Martin, > > > > > > > > > > Different beasts. It is not less powerful, but differently powerful. > > > > > The 10 horses will push our 11 ton boat at about 5.5 knots in calm > > > > > conditions at 1000 rpm. About one litre an hour. 18 inch variable > > > > > pitch prop, no transmission, only a reduction gear. The 30hp is about > > > > > 900 lbs. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________________ > > Ouverture de Messenger sur le nouveau MSN = plus rapide! > > http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9677415 > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > > Version: 8.5.409 / Virus Database: 270.13.75/2341 - Release Date: 09/02/09 05:50:00 > > > > > | 21119|21095|2009-09-03 13:15:49|Carl Anderson|Re: Engine size|I have to add that the Isuzu engine in MOM (a 4LE2) is coupled to a ZF25 hydraulic transmission (1.97:1 reduction) and uses a 18" X 13" two bladed prop. Isuzu states that the dry weight is 363 pounds (does not include the transmission which weighs 53 pounds according to ZF) and the displacement is 2.2 liters. Most of the time we are between 1600 and 1800 RPM (giving about 6 knots in calmer water). Carl sv-mom.com As a side note I am finishing up a PowerPoint presentation about how to build a refrigerator in a boat (what I've done and how it has worked out).| 21120|21095|2009-09-03 17:01:40|Paul Wilson|Re: Engine size|Hi Steve, It sounds like there is quite a variety of different engines in the Brent boats. My engine is an Isuzu 3KR1, also known as the QT35. I was told a lot were sold as gensets to the railways for use in their cabooses. Klassen Diesel in Richmond marinized it. I don't have the specs with me but I think its 90 cubic inch or about 1500 cc so quite a bit smaller than your C240. It now has about 2700 hours since 1992. I am not shy about using the engine and a lot of that time is battery charging. I have a Hurth HBW100 gearbox with a 1.5/1 ratio turning a small 14 x 10 (2 blade) prop. This is quite unusual and not normally recommended but I wanted to keep the prop size small for more speed under sail. It took me awhile to finally get the right size prop, although I do admit it looks really small on the boat. I normally run at about 2100 rpm to make between 5 and 6 knots. Max rpm is 2800. Your C240 would be quite a bit bigger. The C240 is probably one of the best diesels ever made, IMHO. I remember the fishermen loved them in BC and I know of a few sailboats (one 45 footer) that have them and love them. I don't think they are made anymore. I only sail to windward so I am definitely not a gentleman :). Cheers, Paul Paul , do you have an Isuzu C240 ? Zero regrets at having the hp at my disposal , and I do tend to sail to windward a lot (hence the rig problem). Not a gentleman. Cheers , Steve > | 21121|21121|2009-09-03 21:28:59|tinboat2010|X-Bow - Not much for us, but interesting|Wasn't even looking for X-Bow, I was looking for, "controllable pitch propellers," and ran into this. More than a little, "off the subject," and I don't think that "X-Bow's" are going to help us, but very interesting; Google, "Ulstein Group" And there's more, click on, Electrical & Control Systems| 21123|21095|2009-09-04 09:45:29|martin demers|Re: Engine size|My concern is how will my 12 hp engine perform in those headwinds, waves and current situations to move my 8 tons, 37ft boat. Martin. To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com From: opusnz@... Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2009 23:48:05 -0400 Subject: Re: [origamiboats] Re: Engine size An old timer told me to ignore hp figures and as a rule of thumb, only look at displacement. Yanmar gives a high hp figure compared to other engines for the same weight because they run at higher rpm. It looks good in their advertising but no one runs an engine at 3000 rpm. Their larger engines are turbo charged, but who wants that. Don't get me wrong, Yanmar's are good, reliable engines but at lower rpm, compare apples to apples and don't look at the max hp figures written by the advertisers. Try to pick an engine with a good peak in its torque curve at the rpm you want to run it at and it will run very efficiently. I have a 35 hp Isuzu in my 36. It has max hp at a governed 2800 max rpm. The engine was originally designed for continuous duty gensets at 3600 rpm so it should have a long life. I like having 35 hp even though it is probably a little overkill for the 36. Don't forget electrical loads. With a fridge, my alternator puts out 100 amp which can take 3 to 4 hp off an engine. A boat with a simple electric system and small alternator can get by with less. Headwinds, waves, current, trying to get through a pass, charging batteries, this is where you need power. It happens :). You need very little hp to make a boat move at hull speed in flat water with no wind. I once pulled a 40 ton boat at 3 knots with a 3 hp outboard. With a large, coarse prop, you can motor at hull speed at low rpm but you will overload your engine when things slow down and you start punching into waves. I sailed (motored) around for a year or two before I finally figured this out. My 35 hp engine was overloaded and that was the reason for the black smoke and soot all the time on the transom. I now have a smaller prop, and motor at 2000-2100 rpm instead of 1600-1700 rpm. The transom stays clean and I use no more fuel since the engine is running more efficiently. Cheers, Paul martin demers wrote: > > > > > I bought two used engines to fit in my 37ft (8 tons) sailboat; an old > yanmar YSE 12hp that I got for a cheap price and a newer 24hp yanmar 3 > cylinders for more money. If I new the older 12hp one cylinder who is > also very heavy(around 360 lbs) for a small engine would do the job of > the newer one I would use it instead. Wich one to choose????? > > To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > From: yahoog@... > Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2009 22:35:02 +0200 > Subject: Re: [origamiboats] Re: Engine size > > GREAT post. > > And very true. > > One thing stands out from all, or at least some 99% of posts re: engines. > > Reliability = heavy. > > ALL old, heavy engines meant for continuous duty, run for very long > > periods of time. > > Applies to generators, marine engines, tractors, mining equipment etc. > > New engines are a significant amounts lighter, and almost certainly far > > less reliable. > > They have not, so far, stood the test of time. So far there is no known > > brand, afaik, with a light durable continuous duty marine engine, > > expected to last in the 10s of 1000s of hours the old ones did. > > Second things that stands out, is diesel engines only ever fail if they > > are not run, or don´t have oil. > > Lack of use, in sea water, means rust, and that promotes failure. > > Expected reliability of continuous-duty heavy engines is 3-4 years, > > 24x7, 365 days a year. > > In the 20-30.000 hours range. > > At 5 knots, thats 100.000 miles, or 4 times round the world, non-stop. > > My conclusion; > > heavier is better. > > If buying new, it is often possible to buy a bigger engine, and ask the > > manufacturer to de-rate it, to run slower, cooler, and for continuous > duty. > > It will be heavier and run longer - > > One thing to keep in mind - If you will be sailing, you probably dont > > want to run the engine so much, so ymmv a lot. > > For a sailboat, I personally would not go to the trouble. > > For a trawler-style boat, yes. > > donalphilby wrote: > > > > > > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > > > , martin demers > > > wrote: > > > > How would you compare your old 10HP with a more modern and more > > > powerfull engine >with the same displacement, performance wise? > > > > > > Martin, > > > > > > Different beasts. It is not less powerful, but differently powerful. > > > The 10 horses will push our 11 ton boat at about 5.5 knots in calm > > > conditions at 1000 rpm. About one litre an hour. 18 inch variable > > > pitch prop, no transmission, only a reduction gear. The 30hp is about > > > 900 lbs. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________________ > Ouverture de Messenger sur le nouveau MSN = plus rapide! > http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9677415 > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.409 / Virus Database: 270.13.75/2341 - Release Date: 09/02/09 05:50:00 > > _________________________________________________________________ Nouveau : connexion à Messenger par MSN http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9677413 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]| 21124|21093|2009-09-04 09:46:05|audeojude|Re: Nonsuch Cat Rig|Shane, I did read the entire post, several times. I think that you don't realize how you come across sometimes. I think that was the first time I have ever addressed you over such an issue, but I have seen you involved with multiple other people in similar situations/conversations about how you sometimes state things. Have you ever thought that there might be a reason that you are one of the small handful of people on the forum that ever have anyone say something to you about not attacking others that have different opinions, or that is consistently involved in flame wars. I'm really serious here...If you are picking up a huge amount of flack over how you state things from many people maybe it's time to reflect on your perception of that vs their perception of that and honestly ask yourself if they might have a point. In just about any country on earth you say master race and it is and automatic association to the Nazis, and master race/Nazi has a negative connotation that represents military aggression, genocide, and death camps. Even you in your reply indicate that the word Nazi has connotations of Genocide to you. By using that in your post to compare with, you use that connotation and apply it to the people on the other side of your discussion. Your going to get a reaction because in your readers minds you just went from discussing unstayed masts to a very emotional laden statement that implies that they or anyone that believes in unstayed mast is a Nazi with all that word's baggage. Frankly, Shane this to me (and I would be willing to bet a bunch of other people) is seen as a personal attack. If you drag something negative into the conversation and apply it to people and it doesn't directly have anything to do with the topic then you are not supporting your argument you are attacking the individual. This is trying to discredit them as individuals so that their opinions have less weight to make your opinion seem more valid. Your reply to me is a prime example of this.. you attack my statement on your usage of the word Nazi not by giving any supporting evidence that it is an appropriate analogy but by saying that I must be an overly sensitive german with a superiority complex. No german blood here shane. :) I will leave it to those friends that know me to comment on the superiority complex :) If you will notice though I am being critical of your statement I am not calling you a evil person, or saying you are genocidal, a bad sailor, or anything else like that. I imagine you are actually a fairly nice guy and we would probably enjoy each others company in the real world. I am criticizing how you make some statements some of the time. It's happened to me before and I had to step back and really think about it and how I had been stating things. I've had to publicly apologize for stuff I've said that was said in the heat of the moment that I let my emotions over run my common sense. I'm not saying you need to accept what I'm saying blindly.. just think about it. Go talk to a friend you trust and ask them what they think. Someone that you know will tell you the truth. I find that the Internet is a much less forgiving environment to have a conversation in because you have to be much more precise about what and how you say something as none of the non verbal cues we use in everyday life come across.. something that we say in real life that is rude but funny because of how we said it and what our body language was at the time will come across as very very offensive just written down the same way we said it. Anyway.... If we ever get the chance to meet in person I will buy you a drink. Your an active member here and I enjoy a lot of your posts. Scott --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, SHANE ROTHWELL wrote: > > Scott, > > I agree , it is hilarious. > > The guy asked for opinions on rigs and recieved a few. Including mine. Obviously I'm not an adherant to the cat rig > > It would REALLY help if you took the time to READ and COMPREHEND messages before you come out fighting. > > Please read it again, the last paragraph of mine you coppied at the bottom of your last posting. > > All I said was "just because a technology/ideaolog y has those who swear by it - ususally the guy who designed it or a sales man - does not make it right. > > The analogy to the Nazi's was to give an example of how insane/stupid the masses can be. Exactly where did I say that anyone who had a cat rig was a Nazi or anything of the sort????? How bloody rediculous. > > If you still take offence to the refrence to the Nazi's, well I take particular offence to genocide. > > What's your problem, a Germanic background combined with a superiority complex with just a bit of guilt? > > Or perhaps Just a little tiny bit of an over reaction don't you think? Or maybe you made a mistake and didn't think this time? > > Chill Man, (and maybe read messages before exploding and hitting the send button .......just like you said. > > Shane > > | 21125|21090|2009-09-04 10:04:23|johndean61840|Parts|Before you buy the Yanmar check on parts availability from Yanmar. My motor is a SB12, out of production since about 1980. Yet last year I could still buy some orginal Yarmar parts at high yet reasonable prices that included shipping Yarmar parts maybe in Japan. Cheers John - In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Carl Anderson wrote: > > Be sure to do dry exhaust- > we're 54 horse & happy about that. > > sv=mom.com > > akenai wrote: > > > > > > > > Since I still have not made a final descision for what motor to use > > wether an electric or not I found a 30 hp yanmar close to home and maybe > > a good price also but the question is if the motor is an addiquite size. > > Will a 3QM30(H) be an exceptable size motor for BS36 ? The motor and > > transmision weights in at 600 lbs and is only 30 HP. > > Aaron > > > > > | 21126|21093|2009-09-04 10:48:51|Larry Dale|Re: Nonsuch Cat Rig fight|Your discussion has nothing to do anymore with the Nonsuch Cat Rig. Please change the subject line to somthing like BORN TO FIGHT or WILL NOT BACK DOWN or better yet continue your fight off list.  When I see the subject line I think someone has something more to add to the Cat Rig subject. --- On Fri, 9/4/09, audeojude wrote: From: audeojude Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Nonsuch Cat Rig To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Received: Friday, September 4, 2009, 9:45 AM Shane, I did read the entire post, several times. I think that you don't realize how you come across sometimes. I think that was the first time I have ever addressed you over such an issue, but I have seen you involved with multiple other people in similar situations/conversations about how you sometimes state things. Have you ever thought that there might be a reason that you are one of  the small handful of people on the forum that ever have anyone say something to you about not attacking others that have different opinions, or that is consistently involved in flame wars. I'm really serious here...If you are picking up a huge amount of flack over how you state things from many people maybe it's time to reflect on your perception of that vs their perception of that and honestly ask yourself if they might have a point. In just about any country on earth you say master race and it is and automatic association to the Nazis, and master race/Nazi has a negative connotation that represents military aggression, genocide, and death camps. Even you in your reply indicate that the word Nazi has connotations of Genocide to you. By using that in your post to compare with, you use that connotation and apply it to the people on the other side of your discussion. Your going to get a reaction because in your readers minds you just went from discussing unstayed masts to a very emotional laden statement that implies that they or anyone that believes in unstayed mast is a Nazi with all that word's baggage. Frankly, Shane this to me (and I would be willing to bet a bunch of other people) is seen as a personal attack. If you drag something negative into the conversation and apply it to people and it doesn't directly have anything to do with the topic then you are not supporting your argument you are attacking the individual. This is trying to discredit them as individuals so that their opinions have less weight to make your opinion seem more valid. Your reply to me is a prime example of this.. you attack my statement on your usage of the word Nazi not by giving any supporting evidence that it is an appropriate analogy but by saying that I must be an overly sensitive german with a superiority complex. No german blood here shane. :) I will leave it to those friends that know me to comment on the superiority complex :) If you will notice though I am being critical of your statement I am not calling you a evil person, or saying you are genocidal, a bad sailor, or anything else like that. I imagine you are actually a fairly nice guy and we would probably enjoy each others company in the real world.  I am criticizing how you make some statements some of the time. It's happened to me before and I had to step back and really think about it and how I had been stating things. I've had to publicly apologize for stuff I've said that was said in the heat of the moment that I let my emotions over run my common sense.  I'm not saying you need to accept what I'm saying blindly.. just think about it. Go talk to a friend you trust and ask them what they think. Someone that you know will tell you the truth. I find that the Internet is a much less forgiving environment to have a conversation in because you have to be much more precise about what and how you say something as none of the non verbal cues we use in everyday life come across.. something that we say in real life that is rude but funny because of how we said it and what our body language was at the time will come across as very very offensive just written down the same way we said it. Anyway.... If we ever get the chance to meet in person I will buy you a drink. Your an active member here and I enjoy a lot of your posts. Scott --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, SHANE ROTHWELL wrote: > > Scott, > > I agree , it is hilarious. > > The guy asked for opinions on rigs and recieved a few. Including mine. Obviously I'm not an adherant to the cat rig > > It would REALLY help if you took the time to READ and COMPREHEND messages before you come out fighting. > > Please read it again, the last paragraph of mine you coppied at the bottom of your last posting. > > All I said was "just because a technology/ideaolog y has those who swear by it - ususally the guy who designed it or a sales man - does not make it right. > > The analogy to the Nazi's was to give an example of how  insane/stupid the masses can be. Exactly where did I say that anyone who had a cat rig was a Nazi or anything of the sort????? How bloody rediculous. > > If you still take offence to the refrence to the Nazi's, well I take particular offence to genocide. > > What's your problem, a Germanic background combined with a superiority complex with just a bit of guilt? > > Or perhaps Just a little tiny bit of an over reaction don't you think? Or maybe you made a mistake and didn't think this time? > > Chill Man, (and maybe read messages before exploding and hitting the send button .......just like you said. > > Shane > > ------------------------------------ To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.comYahoo! Groups Links __________________________________________________________________ Looking for the perfect gift? Give the gift of Flickr! http://www.flickr.com/gift/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 21127|21095|2009-09-04 12:03:16|Paul Wilson|Re: Engine size|My concern is how will my 12 hp engine perform in those headwinds, waves and current situations to move my 8 tons, 37ft boat. Martin. I think to do that, 12 hp would be too small. A 20 hp diesel, even an older high torque, low rpm one, would be minimum in my opinion. Paul > | 21128|21095|2009-09-04 12:18:20|martin demers|Re: Engine size|I should then use my other yanmar engine, the 24 hp, for now. I was hesitating to use it because when I went to the local Yanmar distributor earlier this summer and asked for the price for some short coolant hoses I was stunt by the price and also for the price range of most parts.I was thinking to sell my Yanmar 24hp to get my money back and invest it in my boat for something else. what I really want to install eventually would be a marinized VW diesel car engine(around 50hp for the 1.6l and 60 hp for a 1.9l na) couple to a hurth v-drive that I already have, the parts for VW are cheap and easy to find world wide and I know those engines pretty well. But I have to wait for that because the parts to marinised them are also expensive. Martin. To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com From: opusnz@... Date: Fri, 4 Sep 2009 12:02:05 -0400 Subject: Re: [origamiboats] Re: Engine size My concern is how will my 12 hp engine perform in those headwinds, waves and current situations to move my 8 tons, 37ft boat. Martin. I think to do that, 12 hp would be too small. A 20 hp diesel, even an older high torque, low rpm one, would be minimum in my opinion. Paul > _________________________________________________________________ Rapide : accédez à Messenger par le nouveau MSN! http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9677416 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]| 21129|21095|2009-09-04 12:31:59|martin demers|Re: masthead sheave box|Brent, In your book in the section about sheave box there is something I dont get,is the sheave box something that slides into the nast tube or is it something that adds up to it? Also, thanks for the mast scraf pattern that you send me, I received it not long after you told you were sending it.How much do I owe you for it? If I have the chance I will take pictures of the scarf and the welding of mast section when I will do it and post them in the photo section, there are not much mast picture right now. Martin. To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com From: opusnz@... Date: Fri, 4 Sep 2009 12:02:05 -0400 Subject: Re: [origamiboats] Re: Engine size My concern is how will my 12 hp engine perform in those headwinds, waves and current situations to move my 8 tons, 37ft boat. Martin. I think to do that, 12 hp would be too small. A 20 hp diesel, even an older high torque, low rpm one, would be minimum in my opinion. Paul > _________________________________________________________________ Cliquez moins, discutez plus : nouvel accès à Messenger http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9677414 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]| 21130|21095|2009-09-04 16:51:59|brentswain38|Re: masthead sheave box|The sheave box slides into the mast thru the slots cut in the mast for it. You have to squash it down a bit to let the hole liners in, then when they pop out the holes cut in the tube for them, you jam 2 pieces of half inch plate in the sheave box to keep the width right , while you weld it up, then take the half inch plates out. You owe me nothing for the pattern. Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, martin demers wrote: > > > > > Brent, > In your book in the section about sheave box there is something I dont get,is the sheave box something that slides into the nast tube or is it something that adds up to it? > > Also, thanks for the mast scraf pattern that you send me, I received it not long after you told you were sending it.How much do I owe you for it? > If I have the chance I will take pictures of the scarf and the welding of mast section when I will do it and post them in the photo section, there are not much mast picture right now. > Martin. > > To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > From: opusnz@... > Date: Fri, 4 Sep 2009 12:02:05 -0400 > Subject: Re: [origamiboats] Re: Engine size > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My concern is how will my 12 hp engine perform in those headwinds, waves > > and current situations to move my 8 tons, 37ft boat. > > Martin. > > > > I think to do that, 12 hp would be too small. A 20 hp diesel, even an > > older high torque, low rpm one, would be minimum in my opinion. > > > > Paul > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Cliquez moins, discutez plus : nouvel accès à Messenger > http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9677414 > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > | 21131|21095|2009-09-04 16:55:37|brentswain38|Re: Engine size|I'd go for the 20 in a 36. However if the 12 is all you can afford at the moment, there are ways to beat a headwind in close quarters. My last boat had a 4 HP engine in a 12,000 lb boat. It would do nothing against a headwind, nor would the main alone. Combined ,the main and engine together would push her against almost anything. Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Paul Wilson wrote: > > My concern is how will my 12 hp engine perform in those headwinds, waves > and current situations to move my 8 tons, 37ft boat. > Martin. > > I think to do that, 12 hp would be too small. A 20 hp diesel, even an > older high torque, low rpm one, would be minimum in my opinion. > > Paul > > > | 21132|21095|2009-09-04 16:58:32|brentswain38|Re: Engine size|With the entire hull surface of a metal boat being potential heat exchanger, it would be foolish to salt water cool any engine in a metal boat. Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "donalphilby" wrote: > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, martin demers wrote: > > How would you compare your old 10HP with a more modern and more powerfull engine >with the same displacement, performance wise? > > Martin, > > Different beasts. It is not less powerful, but differently powerful. The 10 horses will push our 11 ton boat at about 5.5 knots in calm conditions at 1000 rpm. About one litre an hour. 18 inch variable pitch prop, no transmission, only a reduction gear. The 30hp is about 900 lbs. > > We had a mechanic work on it once. It had overheated (operator error when we first got the boat), but smoked a bit. He changed out the piston, cylinder sleeve and rings. He had never worked on a Sabb (a Norwegian company, not Saab) and his initial advice was to just change it for a Yanmar or at least put in fresh water cooling. I was having none of that and besides that engine only had a 100 hours on it. I'd sailed on boats with a Sabbs and had helped install one on an Atkin Eric years ago. The Sabb is one of only a few (Hundestet comes to mind) that is a from-the-ground-up marine engine. Everything can be done to the engine in the boat, including changing the crank. There is no pan. And the cylinders are sleeved, so if you scratch the cylinders, you don't have to change the whole block. > > After we finished up, he said keep the engine. And forget the fresh water cooling, it was meant for it. And he said it was the only engine he'd ever worked on where every part was not within tolerance, but precisely ON spec. BTW, parts and labor just at $1000, split evenly. > > When I ordered parts, the fellow in Florida (NA distributor) told they had just stopped manufacturing that engine. When I cried despair, he said not to worry, that they still were making parts for the original Sabb engine made over 75 years ago because they are still in Norwegian fishing boats fishing. > > It is a different animal from the more technically sophisticated Yanmar. I would definitely fresh water cool a Yanmar, having seen the results of sea water cooling a Yanmar on our last boat. Just not enough "meat" to the engine. But the Yanmar is appropriate for a lighter boat that requires less torque on the prop. And it is easier to find an experienced mechanic for the Yanmar. > > Sabb is now marinizing more modern Ivecos and another brand and adapting for their variable pitch prop. They also find used engines and rebuild them to full warranty. > > Hope that helps. > > donal > | 21134|21093|2009-09-05 08:29:42|audeojude|Re: Nonsuch Cat Rig fight|Your right and my appologies to the group. Scott --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Larry Dale wrote: > > Your discussion has nothing to do anymore with the Nonsuch Cat Rig. Please change the subject line to somthing like BORN TO FIGHT or WILL NOT BACK DOWN or better yet continue your fight off list.  When I see the subject line I think someone has something more to add to the Cat Rig subject. > > --- On Fri, 9/4/09, audeojude wrote: | 21135|21135|2009-09-05 10:58:25|SHANE ROTHWELL|Nonsuch Cat rig fight|Larry, You are right Scott, I'm sure you are quite a nice guy too and I'll buy a round too. Great. But don't put words in my mouth or accuse me of making statements that I simply did not make. If you don't want to read a posting for what it is, that is fine, If you want to come to an opinion of your own from whatever source in your experience, also fine, but to just add your own....whatever, and then attempt to carry it off as if I had said it, is bullshit. If you take offence to the way I say things, Please accept my appologies as I generally don't intend to offend. If I do intend to offend, I leave no doubt whatsoever. but did it ever occur to you that maybe it's your perceptions might be rather skewed (espcially in light of the fact that you seem to have trouble comprehending the difference between a question and a statement). Anyway, Larry is right. Way too much time spent on this which I for one did not want to make into a fight of any kind. You can think whatever you like, but the psudo-psyco analysation bullshit you can keep to yourself. Something think about. Now, how about back to boats? The basic subject at least, is something we can all agree on & I'm not going to carry on this line of.....disgussion as I, and I'm sure you, have better things to do with our time. Shane Posted by: "Larry Dale" roboman3234@... roboman3234 Fri Sep 4, 2009 7:48 am (PDT) Your discussion has nothing to do anymore with the Nonsuch Cat Rig. Please change the subject line to somthing like BORN TO FIGHT or WILL NOT BACK DOWN or better yet continue your fight off list. When I see the subject line I think someone has something more to add to the Cat Rig subject. --- On Fri, 9/4/09, audeojude wrote: From: audeojude Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Nonsuch Cat Rig To: origamiboats@ yahoogroups. com Received: Friday, September 4, 2009, 9:45 AM Shane, I did read the entire post, several times. I think that you don't realize how you come across sometimes. I think that was the first time I have ever addressed you over such an issue, but I have seen you involved with multiple other people in similar situations/conversa tions about how you sometimes state things. Have you ever thought that there might be a reason that you are one of the small handful of people on the forum that ever have anyone say something to you about not attacking others that have different opinions, or that is consistently involved in flame wars. I'm really serious here...If you are picking up a huge amount of flack over how you state things from many people maybe it's time to reflect on your perception of that vs their perception of that and honestly ask yourself if they might have a point. In just about any country on earth you say master race and it is and automatic association to the Nazis, and master race/Nazi has a negative connotation that represents military aggression, genocide, and death camps. Even you in your reply indicate that the word Nazi has connotations of Genocide to you. By using that in your post to compare with, you use that connotation and apply it to the people on the other side of your discussion. Your going to get a reaction because in your readers minds you just went from discussing unstayed masts to a very emotional laden statement that implies that they or anyone that believes in unstayed mast is a Nazi with all that word's baggage. Frankly, Shane this to me (and I would be willing to bet a bunch of other people) is seen as a personal attack. If you drag something negative into the conversation and apply it to people and it doesn't directly have anything to do with the topic then you are not supporting your argument you are attacking the individual. This is trying to discredit them as individuals so that their opinions have less weight to make your opinion seem more valid. Your reply to me is a prime example of this.. you attack my statement on your usage of the word Nazi not by giving any supporting evidence that it is an appropriate analogy but by saying that I must be an overly sensitive german with a superiority complex. No german blood here shane. :) I will leave it to those friends that know me to comment on the superiority complex :) If you will notice though I am being critical of your statement I am not calling you a evil person, or saying you are genocidal, a bad sailor, or anything else like that. I imagine you are actually a fairly nice guy and we would probably enjoy each others company in the real world. I am criticizing how you make some statements some of the time. It's happened to me before and I had to step back and really think about it and how I had been stating things. I've had to publicly apologize for stuff I've said that was said in the heat of the moment that I let my emotions over run my common sense. I'm not saying you need to accept what I'm saying blindly.. just think about it. Go talk to a friend you trust and ask them what they think. Someone that you know will tell you the truth. I find that the Internet is a much less forgiving environment to have a conversation in because you have to be much more precise about what and how you say something as none of the non verbal cues we use in everyday life come across.. something that we say in real life that is rude but funny because of how we said it and what our body language was at the time will come across as very very offensive just written down the same way we said it. Anyway.... If we ever get the chance to meet in person I will buy you a drink. Your an active member here and I enjoy a lot of your posts. Scott --- In origamiboats@ yahoogroups. com, SHANE ROTHWELL wrote: > > Scott, > > I agree , it is hilarious. > > The guy asked for opinions on rigs and recieved a few. Including mine. Obviously I'm not an adherant to the cat rig > > It would REALLY help if you took the time to READ and COMPREHEND messages before you come out fighting. > > Please read it again, the last paragraph of mine you coppied at the bottom of your last posting. > > All I said was "just because a technology/ideaolog y has those who swear by it - ususally the guy who designed it or a sales man - does not make it right. > > The analogy to the Nazi's was to give an example of how insane/stupid the masses can be. Exactly where did I say that anyone who had a cat rig was a Nazi or anything of the sort????? How bloody rediculous. > > If you still take offence to the refrence to the Nazi's, well I take particular offence to genocide. > > What's your problem, a Germanic background combined with a superiority complex with just a bit of guilt? > > Or perhaps Just a little tiny bit of an over reaction don't you think? Or maybe you made a mistake and didn't think this time? > > Chill Man, (and maybe read messages before exploding and hitting the send button .......just like you said. > > Shane > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com | 21136|21095|2009-09-05 17:05:01|brentswain38|Re: Engine size|Steve What was the rig problem? Are you back on the inside? Brent -- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "silascrosby" wrote: > > Paul , do you have an Isuzu C240 ? Mine has 4100 hrs on it with no failures. I run mine at 1600 to 1800 rpm but perhaps I should push it a bit harder. A crab fisherman here in Courtenay finally changed out his C240 genset at 30,000 hrs.Different service, for sure. > The C240 is rated at 49 hp cont but I am probably using about 25-30 hp. A recent rig problem off Cape Cook meant I had to motor into head seas and wind and current for 25 miles to Kyuquot. We were able to do 4-5 knots despite the conditions at 1900 to 2000 rpm. Using a 17" x 16" 3 blade prop with hurth 250 ~2:1 reduction. > > Zero regrets at having the hp at my disposal , and I do tend to sail to windward a lot (hence the rig problem). Not a gentleman. > cheers , Steve > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Paul Wilson wrote: > > > > An old timer told me to ignore hp figures and as a rule of thumb, only > > look at displacement. Yanmar gives a high hp figure compared to other > > engines for the same weight because they run at higher rpm. It looks > > good in their advertising but no one runs an engine at 3000 rpm. Their > > larger engines are turbo charged, but who wants that. Don't get me > > wrong, Yanmar's are good, reliable engines but at lower rpm, compare > > apples to apples and don't look at the max hp figures written by the > > advertisers. Try to pick an engine with a good peak in its torque curve > > at the rpm you want to run it at and it will run very efficiently. I > > have a 35 hp Isuzu in my 36. It has max hp at a governed 2800 max rpm. > > The engine was originally designed for continuous duty gensets at 3600 > > rpm so it should have a long life. I like having 35 hp even though it > > is probably a little overkill for the 36. Don't forget electrical > > loads. With a fridge, my alternator puts out 100 amp which can take 3 > > to 4 hp off an engine. A boat with a simple electric system and small > > alternator can get by with less. > > > > Headwinds, waves, current, trying to get through a pass, charging > > batteries, this is where you need power. It happens :). You need very > > little hp to make a boat move at hull speed in flat water with no wind. > > I once pulled a 40 ton boat at 3 knots with a 3 hp outboard. With a > > large, coarse prop, you can motor at hull speed at low rpm but you will > > overload your engine when things slow down and you start punching into > > waves. I sailed (motored) around for a year or two before I finally > > figured this out. My 35 hp engine was overloaded and that was the reason > > for the black smoke and soot all the time on the transom. I now have a > > smaller prop, and motor at 2000-2100 rpm instead of 1600-1700 rpm. The > > transom stays clean and I use no more fuel since the engine is running > > more efficiently. > > > > Cheers, Paul > > > > martin demers wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I bought two used engines to fit in my 37ft (8 tons) sailboat; an old > > > yanmar YSE 12hp that I got for a cheap price and a newer 24hp yanmar 3 > > > cylinders for more money. If I new the older 12hp one cylinder who is > > > also very heavy(around 360 lbs) for a small engine would do the job of > > > the newer one I would use it instead. Wich one to choose????? > > > > > > To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > > From: yahoog@ > > > Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2009 22:35:02 +0200 > > > Subject: Re: [origamiboats] Re: Engine size > > > > > > GREAT post. > > > > > > And very true. > > > > > > One thing stands out from all, or at least some 99% of posts re: engines. > > > > > > Reliability = heavy. > > > > > > ALL old, heavy engines meant for continuous duty, run for very long > > > > > > periods of time. > > > > > > Applies to generators, marine engines, tractors, mining equipment etc. > > > > > > New engines are a significant amounts lighter, and almost certainly far > > > > > > less reliable. > > > > > > They have not, so far, stood the test of time. So far there is no known > > > > > > brand, afaik, with a light durable continuous duty marine engine, > > > > > > expected to last in the 10s of 1000s of hours the old ones did. > > > > > > Second things that stands out, is diesel engines only ever fail if they > > > > > > are not run, or don´t have oil. > > > > > > Lack of use, in sea water, means rust, and that promotes failure. > > > > > > Expected reliability of continuous-duty heavy engines is 3-4 years, > > > > > > 24x7, 365 days a year. > > > > > > In the 20-30.000 hours range. > > > > > > At 5 knots, thats 100.000 miles, or 4 times round the world, non-stop. > > > > > > My conclusion; > > > > > > heavier is better. > > > > > > If buying new, it is often possible to buy a bigger engine, and ask the > > > > > > manufacturer to de-rate it, to run slower, cooler, and for continuous > > > duty. > > > > > > It will be heavier and run longer - > > > > > > One thing to keep in mind - If you will be sailing, you probably dont > > > > > > want to run the engine so much, so ymmv a lot. > > > > > > For a sailboat, I personally would not go to the trouble. > > > > > > For a trawler-style boat, yes. > > > > > > donalphilby wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > , martin demers > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > How would you compare your old 10HP with a more modern and more > > > > > > > powerfull engine >with the same displacement, performance wise? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Martin, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Different beasts. It is not less powerful, but differently powerful. > > > > > > > The 10 horses will push our 11 ton boat at about 5.5 knots in calm > > > > > > > conditions at 1000 rpm. About one litre an hour. 18 inch variable > > > > > > > pitch prop, no transmission, only a reduction gear. The 30hp is about > > > > > > > 900 lbs. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________________ > > > Ouverture de Messenger sur le nouveau MSN = plus rapide! > > > http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9677415 > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > > > Version: 8.5.409 / Virus Database: 270.13.75/2341 - Release Date: 09/02/09 05:50:00 > > > > > > > > > | 21137|21137|2009-09-06 07:33:19|edward_stoneuk|Coolant expansion tank|Hi Brent, The coolant expansion tanks that I have seen are all pressurised as are regular radiators. This enables the engine to run hotter and therefore more efficiently, much the same as a pressure cooker is hotter then a regular saucepan. Is my memmory correct when I think your expansion tank is not pressurised? Does it boil when working the engine long and hard? Regards, Ted Regards, Ted| 21138|21093|2009-09-06 11:40:07|SHANE ROTHWELL|Nonsuch Cat Rig|My appologies to the goroup as well. And Scott, good on you for letting it go. Wish I'd done so as soon as you did. Shane Posted by: "Larry Dale" roboman3234@ yahoo.com roboman3234 Fri Sep 4, 2009 7:48 am (PDT) Your discussion has nothing to do anymore with the Nonsuch Cat Rig. Please change the subject line to somthing like BORN TO FIGHT or WILL NOT BACK DOWN or better yet continue your fight off list. When I see the subject line I think someone has something more to add to the Cat Rig subject __________________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Canada Toolbar: Search from anywhere on the web, and bookmark your favourite sites. Download it now http://ca.toolbar.yahoo.com| 21139|21139|2009-09-07 07:45:04|brianchabassol|Pricing fof stiching together a bare hull.|Well the Snowbird dident work out so Im back to work making portlights for my 31 footer. It seems that we will be moving back to the Island "vancouver Island" within the next year if all works out,so Im only building the smaller peices,less than 400 lbs. I was wondering about how much it would cost to get Brent or one of the other swain builders to stich together a bare hull with deck ? Aprox of course , I am more than capable but with kids and work sometimes its better to just suck it up and pay someone. Thanks Brian| 21142|21139|2009-09-08 13:29:59|brentswain38|Re: Pricing fof stiching together a bare hull.|I charge $30 an hour plus meals and expenses. What it costs depends on how much you can do for yourself. I don't mind laying things out and letting you take your time doing the cutting and welding stringers , bulwarks etc on , then dropping in to pull her together.. When I do all the cutting on a 36 and mostly work alone it usually takes under 100 hours( hull decks cabin, wheelhouse, keel and skeg). Working with an owner who can do a lot of his own work ,I have done a shell in 40 hours. Brent -- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "brianchabassol" wrote: > > Well the Snowbird dident work out so Im back to work making portlights for my 31 footer. It seems that we will be moving back to the Island "vancouver Island" within the next year if all works out,so Im only building the smaller peices,less than 400 lbs. I was wondering about how much it would cost to get Brent or one of the other swain builders to stich together a bare hull with deck ? Aprox of course , I am more than capable but with kids and work sometimes its better to just suck it up and pay someone. > Thanks > Brian > | 21143|21137|2009-09-08 13:33:30|brentswain38|Re: Coolant expansion tank|The only time it ever boiled was when the belt broke on the water pump. Otherwise with a good thermostat it should never come anywhere near boiling. I just push a soft plastic pipe cap on the header tank, no need for any pressure. Brent -- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "edward_stoneuk" wrote: > > Hi Brent, > > The coolant expansion tanks that I have seen are all pressurised as are regular radiators. This enables the engine to run hotter and therefore more efficiently, much the same as a pressure cooker is hotter then a regular saucepan. Is my memmory correct when I think your expansion tank is not pressurised? Does it boil when working the engine long and hard? > > Regards, > > Ted > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > Ted > | 21144|22|2009-09-08 16:46:00|origamiboats@yahoogroups.com|New file uploaded to origamiboats |Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the origamiboats group. File : /Imagiro Boats./295MESPL-AT12-09.jpg Uploaded by : yvesmariedetanton Description : Imagiro 435. Sail Plan. You can access this file at the URL: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/files/Imagiro%20Boats./295MESPL-AT12-09.jpg To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit: http://help.yahoo.com/l/us/yahoo/groups/original/general.htmlfiles Regards, yvesmariedetanton | 21145|21095|2009-09-08 21:07:33|silascrosby|Was Engine size , now Rig failure|-- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "brentswain38" wrote: > > Steve > What was the rig problem? Are you back on the inside? > Brent > > - Brent A 1/2 " ss bolt holding the lower shrouds to the mast fatigued and broke , probably because I never bothered to make and set up runners , and I use the staysail quite a bit over 14 yrs. Big load placed on the aft lowers. I am replacing it with a 5/8 " bolt . I am also making up some 5/16 " Amsteel Blue (13,000 lbs!) rope running backstays that will terminate just above a big turning block on the rail , then a low stretch polyester tail will go back to the windward staysail winch. The windward lower shrouds quietly fell to the deck when we tacked 5 miles off Cape Cook. The quietness makes me think that it had broken some time earlier from fatigue. The 1/2" galv bolt we placed temporarily in Kyuquot was already a little bent when I removed it a couple of days ago.We did have some very strong winds since Kyuquot. Motored to Kyuquot after stabilising the mast with halyards. It was quite whippy. Steve incidentally, I am replacing all my standing rigging after 14 yrs. Galv 1x7 5/16" still has no rust and I slapped on some tremclad about 10 yrs ago to the lower 10'. The Northern Ropes guy thinks it is because it is the 'hard ' stuff that needs a forklift to help make the eyes tight around the thimbles. Also , no rust on the staysail stay despite using hanks all those years. --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "brentswain38" wrote: > > Steve > What was the rig problem? Are you back on the inside? > Brent > > - | 21146|21139|2009-09-09 11:24:07|brianchabassol|Re: Pricing fof stiching together a bare hull.|Sounds more than reasonable Brent, I will keep plugging away at the small parts and will be in contact when we relocate. Thanks again Brian --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "brentswain38" wrote: > > I charge $30 an hour plus meals and expenses. What it costs depends on how much you can do for yourself. I don't mind laying things out and letting you take your time doing the cutting and welding stringers , bulwarks etc on , then dropping in to pull her together.. When I do all the cutting on a 36 and mostly work alone it usually takes under 100 hours( hull decks cabin, wheelhouse, keel and skeg). Working with an owner who can do a lot of his own work ,I have done a shell in 40 hours. > Brent > > -- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "brianchabassol" wrote: > > > > Well the Snowbird dident work out so Im back to work making portlights for my 31 footer. It seems that we will be moving back to the Island "vancouver Island" within the next year if all works out,so Im only building the smaller peices,less than 400 lbs. I was wondering about how much it would cost to get Brent or one of the other swain builders to stich together a bare hull with deck ? Aprox of course , I am more than capable but with kids and work sometimes its better to just suck it up and pay someone. > > Thanks > > Brian > > > | 21147|21137|2009-09-09 11:55:57|theboilerflue|Re: Coolant expansion tank|I have a header tank between the skeg and the engine on the inlet side of things and i guess it's not big enough cause the coolant has expanded and over flowed out of it so... i was thinking of putting anther tank on the outlet side to act as an expansion tank, not in line but just teed off of the coolant hose. --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "brentswain38" wrote: > > The only time it ever boiled was when the belt broke on the water pump. Otherwise with a good thermostat it should never come anywhere near boiling. I just push a soft plastic pipe cap on the header tank, no need for any pressure. > Brent > > > -- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "edward_stoneuk" wrote: > > > > Hi Brent, > > > > The coolant expansion tanks that I have seen are all pressurised as are regular radiators. This enables the engine to run hotter and therefore more efficiently, much the same as a pressure cooker is hotter then a regular saucepan. Is my memmory correct when I think your expansion tank is not pressurised? Does it boil when working the engine long and hard? > > > > Regards, > > > > Ted > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > Ted > > > | 21148|21137|2009-09-09 12:00:36|theboilerflue|Re: Coolant expansion tank|This wasn't because it over heated just over filled unless my themostat is broken the engine has always ran around 160 or so --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "theboilerflue" wrote: > > I have a header tank between the skeg and the engine on the inlet side of things and i guess it's not big enough cause the coolant has expanded and over flowed out of it so... i was thinking of putting anther tank on the outlet side to act as an expansion tank, not in line but just teed off of the coolant hose. | 21149|21137|2009-09-09 12:01:50|theboilerflue|Re: Coolant expansion tank|And by thermostat I mean temperature gauge of course. --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "theboilerflue" wrote: This wasn't because it over heated just over filled unless my thermostat is broken the engine has always ran around 160 or so | 21150|21137|2009-09-09 14:03:20|Denis Buggy|Re: Coolant expansion tank|the boilerflue take care with the plumbing -- people who are highly qualified often make a dogs dinner of things -- we had daf buses which had to be bled while driving from 5 points at the same time and would frequently boil due to the impeller in the waterpump running in 50% air while surrounded by 25 gallons of water as you had to vent the waterpump housing continuously to get water to circulate and cool as air would find its way to the engine from the gearbox retarder which was water-cooled BIRDS NEST PLUMBING JOB . if you have a header tank it is usual to send a small hose from the thermostat housing to vent the engine as the housing is usually the highest point on the engine before all the plumbing starts to weave in all directions - this will prevent the surge to your header tank and the overflowing as it will now be happy with the water in the engine block as there will be no air gaps to prevent circulation and also watch your thermostat as it can fail to function if water cannot make its way to the top of it in order to heat it up and open it properly some have a tiny vent hole in the thermostat to accomplish this. regards denis ----- Original Message ----- From: theboilerflue To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, September 09, 2009 4:55 PM Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Coolant expansion tank I have a header tank between the skeg and the engine on the inlet side of things and i guess it's not big enough cause the coolant has expanded and over flowed out of it so... i was thinking of putting anther tank on the outlet side to act as an expansion tank, not in line but just teed off of the coolant hose. --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "brentswain38" wrote: > > The only time it ever boiled was when the belt broke on the water pump. Otherwise with a good thermostat it should never come anywhere near boiling. I just push a soft plastic pipe cap on the header tank, no need for any pressure. > Brent > > > -- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "edward_stoneuk" wrote: > > > > Hi Brent, > > > > The coolant expansion tanks that I have seen are all pressurised as are regular radiators. This enables the engine to run hotter and therefore more efficiently, much the same as a pressure cooker is hotter then a regular saucepan. Is my memmory correct when I think your expansion tank is not pressurised? Does it boil when working the engine long and hard? > > > > Regards, > > > > Ted > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > Ted > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 21151|21139|2009-09-09 16:03:37|brentswain38|Re: Pricing fof stiching together a bare hull.|Keep in mind that when you quit the military or military police ( Mounties) they will relocate anything you own anywhwere in Banada at their expense. A mountie I knew used that to get his 40 footer relocated to the east coast from BC ,at our expense. Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "brianchabassol" wrote: > > Sounds more than reasonable Brent, I will keep plugging away at the small parts and will be in contact when we relocate. > Thanks again > Brian > > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "brentswain38" wrote: > > > > I charge $30 an hour plus meals and expenses. What it costs depends on how much you can do for yourself. I don't mind laying things out and letting you take your time doing the cutting and welding stringers , bulwarks etc on , then dropping in to pull her together.. When I do all the cutting on a 36 and mostly work alone it usually takes under 100 hours( hull decks cabin, wheelhouse, keel and skeg). Working with an owner who can do a lot of his own work ,I have done a shell in 40 hours. > > Brent > > > > -- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "brianchabassol" wrote: > > > > > > Well the Snowbird dident work out so Im back to work making portlights for my 31 footer. It seems that we will be moving back to the Island "vancouver Island" within the next year if all works out,so Im only building the smaller peices,less than 400 lbs. I was wondering about how much it would cost to get Brent or one of the other swain builders to stich together a bare hull with deck ? Aprox of course , I am more than capable but with kids and work sometimes its better to just suck it up and pay someone. > > > Thanks > > > Brian > > > > > > | 21152|21095|2009-09-09 16:12:56|brentswain38|Re: Was Engine size , now Rig failure|Maybe you should consider using galv 5/8th bolts for greater reliability, and fatigue resistance. Once you get more than 15 feet up, there is little corrosion, as there is little salt. You don't have a huge amount of miles on that rig. Cant take a chance on that happening off South Georgia. To wrap high tensile 1X7 around a thimble, just measure the circumfrence of the thimble, then put a sharp kink in the wire at that point. Then when you wrap it around, the kinks come together where the bottom of the sleeve goes.. Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "silascrosby" wrote: > > -- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "brentswain38" wrote: > > > > Steve > > What was the rig problem? Are you back on the inside? > > Brent > > > > - > > > > > > > A 1/2 " ss bolt holding the lower shrouds to the mast fatigued and broke , probably because I never bothered to make and set up runners , and I use the staysail quite a bit over 14 yrs. Big load placed on the aft lowers. I am replacing it with a 5/8 " bolt . I am also making up some 5/16 " Amsteel Blue (13,000 lbs!) rope running backstays that will terminate just above a big turning block on the rail , then a low stretch polyester tail will go back to the windward staysail winch. > > The windward lower shrouds quietly fell to the deck when we tacked 5 miles off Cape Cook. The quietness makes me think that it had broken some time earlier from fatigue. The 1/2" galv bolt we placed temporarily in Kyuquot was already a little bent when I removed it a couple of days ago.We did have some very strong winds since Kyuquot. > > Motored to Kyuquot after stabilising the mast with halyards. It was quite whippy. > > Steve > > incidentally, I am replacing all my standing rigging after 14 yrs. Galv 1x7 5/16" still has no rust and I slapped on some tremclad about 10 yrs ago to the lower 10'. The Northern Ropes guy thinks it is because it is the 'hard ' stuff that needs a forklift to help make the eyes tight around the thimbles. Also , no rust on the staysail stay despite using hanks all those years. > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "brentswain38" wrote: > > > > Steve > > What was the rig problem? Are you back on the inside? > > Brent > > > > - > | 21153|21137|2009-09-09 16:15:18|brentswain38|Re: Coolant expansion tank|Strange, my one gallon tank has never overflowed. I've never noticed any expansion. Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "theboilerflue" wrote: > > I have a header tank between the skeg and the engine on the inlet side of things and i guess it's not big enough cause the coolant has expanded and over flowed out of it so... i was thinking of putting anther tank on the outlet side to act as an expansion tank, not in line but just teed off of the coolant hose. > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "brentswain38" wrote: > > > > The only time it ever boiled was when the belt broke on the water pump. Otherwise with a good thermostat it should never come anywhere near boiling. I just push a soft plastic pipe cap on the header tank, no need for any pressure. > > Brent > > > > > > -- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "edward_stoneuk" wrote: > > > > > > Hi Brent, > > > > > > The coolant expansion tanks that I have seen are all pressurised as are regular radiators. This enables the engine to run hotter and therefore more efficiently, much the same as a pressure cooker is hotter then a regular saucepan. Is my memmory correct when I think your expansion tank is not pressurised? Does it boil when working the engine long and hard? > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > Ted > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > Ted > > > > > > | 21154|21137|2009-09-09 17:33:38|silascrosby|Re: Coolant expansion tank|Brent , do you have to top up the coolant on occasion ? --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "brentswain38" wrote: > > Strange, my one gallon tank has never overflowed. I've never noticed any expansion. > Brent > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "theboilerflue" wrote: > > > > I have a header tank between the skeg and the engine on the inlet side of things and i guess it's not big enough cause the coolant has expanded and over flowed out of it so... i was thinking of putting anther tank on the outlet side to act as an expansion tank, not in line but just teed off of the coolant hose. > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "brentswain38" wrote: > > > > > > The only time it ever boiled was when the belt broke on the water pump. Otherwise with a good thermostat it should never come anywhere near boiling. I just push a soft plastic pipe cap on the header tank, no need for any pressure. > > > Brent > > > > > > > > > -- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "edward_stoneuk" wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi Brent, > > > > > > > > The coolant expansion tanks that I have seen are all pressurised as are regular radiators. This enables the engine to run hotter and therefore more efficiently, much the same as a pressure cooker is hotter then a regular saucepan. Is my memmory correct when I think your expansion tank is not pressurised? Does it boil when working the engine long and hard? > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > Ted > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > Ted > > > > > > > > > > | 21155|21137|2009-09-10 05:21:16|theboilerflue|Re: Coolant expansion tank|maybe you have more air in the top of your skeg than i do my header is about 1 1/2 gallons and i assume by the hot coolant coming out of the skeg that the thermostat is working fine. Although I was curious Carl mentioned drill a hole in the thermostat as well could you explain this in a bit more detail please? Where I have the tee it's very near the thermostat so if I put in the expansion tank it would be higher than the engine and i was thinking it'd allow any air a chance to escape instead of putting it back into the system. --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "brentswain38" wrote: > > Strange, my one gallon tank has never overflowed. I've never noticed any expansion. > Brent > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "theboilerflue" wrote: > > > > I have a header tank between the skeg and the engine on the inlet side of things and i guess it's not big enough cause the coolant has expanded and over flowed out of it so... i was thinking of putting anther tank on the outlet side to act as an expansion tank, not in line but just teed off of the coolant hose. > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "brentswain38" wrote: > > > > > > The only time it ever boiled was when the belt broke on the water pump. Otherwise with a good thermostat it should never come anywhere near boiling. I just push a soft plastic pipe cap on the header tank, no need for any pressure. > > > Brent > > > > > > > > > -- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "edward_stoneuk" wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi Brent, > > > > > > > > The coolant expansion tanks that I have seen are all pressurised as are regular radiators. This enables the engine to run hotter and therefore more efficiently, much the same as a pressure cooker is hotter then a regular saucepan. Is my memmory correct when I think your expansion tank is not pressurised? Does it boil when working the engine long and hard? > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > Ted > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > Ted > > > > > > > > > > | 21156|21139|2009-09-10 05:32:46|brianchabassol|Re: Pricing fof stiching together a bare hull.|I am already breathing the free air, I still have 3 years for a free move. The thing is they have different pots of money , some of which you can keep if you dont spend, the boat move sould be one of these. I figure it would be better to cash it in on the sest coast and apply it to steel than use it to move a boat from here. Brian --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "brentswain38" wrote: > > Keep in mind that when you quit the military or military police ( Mounties) they will relocate anything you own anywhwere in Banada at their expense. A mountie I knew used that to get his 40 footer relocated to the east coast from BC ,at our expense. > Brent > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "brianchabassol" wrote: > > > > Sounds more than reasonable Brent, I will keep plugging away at the small parts and will be in contact when we relocate. > > Thanks again > > Brian > > > > > > > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "brentswain38" wrote: > > > > > > I charge $30 an hour plus meals and expenses. What it costs depends on how much you can do for yourself. I don't mind laying things out and letting you take your time doing the cutting and welding stringers , bulwarks etc on , then dropping in to pull her together.. When I do all the cutting on a 36 and mostly work alone it usually takes under 100 hours( hull decks cabin, wheelhouse, keel and skeg). Working with an owner who can do a lot of his own work ,I have done a shell in 40 hours. > > > Brent > > > > > > -- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "brianchabassol" wrote: > > > > > > > > Well the Snowbird dident work out so Im back to work making portlights for my 31 footer. It seems that we will be moving back to the Island "vancouver Island" within the next year if all works out,so Im only building the smaller peices,less than 400 lbs. I was wondering about how much it would cost to get Brent or one of the other swain builders to stich together a bare hull with deck ? Aprox of course , I am more than capable but with kids and work sometimes its better to just suck it up and pay someone. > > > > Thanks > > > > Brian > > > > > > > > > > | 21157|21137|2009-09-10 06:40:38|Denis Buggy|Re: Coolant expansion tank|the boiler flue if you can imagine a heat sensitive valve stuffed 2 ft down a empty 4ft pipe -- it would prevent hot water rising which is needed to open it as it is filled with alcohol or wax and the engine or nuclear power station will suffer major damage as water cannot circulate past the valve in order to inform it things are getting hot --- no information = no valve = no engine = Chernobyl -- where a hot spot developed in the bottom of the reactor and there were no temp gauges fitted to the bottom of the rods only to the top where the thermostat was waiting in vain for hot water to open it and circulate the cooling of the rods . basic plumbing done by experts . my home town Castlecomer continues to host children from Chernobyl each year in order to give their bodies a break from the radiation .. regards Denis ----- Original Message ----- From: theboilerflue To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, September 10, 2009 10:21 AM Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Coolant expansion tank maybe you have more air in the top of your skeg than i do my header is about 1 1/2 gallons and i assume by the hot coolant coming out of the skeg that the thermostat is working fine. Although I was curious Carl mentioned drill a hole in the thermostat as well could you explain this in a bit more detail please? Where I have the tee it's very near the thermostat so if I put in the expansion tank it would be higher than the engine and i was thinking it'd allow any air a chance to escape instead of putting it back into the system. --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "brentswain38" wrote: > > Strange, my one gallon tank has never overflowed. I've never noticed any expansion. > Brent > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "theboilerflue" wrote: > > > > I have a header tank between the skeg and the engine on the inlet side of things and i guess it's not big enough cause the coolant has expanded and over flowed out of it so... i was thinking of putting anther tank on the outlet side to act as an expansion tank, not in line but just teed off of the coolant hose. > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "brentswain38" wrote: > > > > > > The only time it ever boiled was when the belt broke on the water pump. Otherwise with a good thermostat it should never come anywhere near boiling. I just push a soft plastic pipe cap on the header tank, no need for any pressure. > > > Brent > > > > > > > > > -- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "edward_stoneuk" wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi Brent, > > > > > > > > The coolant expansion tanks that I have seen are all pressurised as are regular radiators. This enables the engine to run hotter and therefore more efficiently, much the same as a pressure cooker is hotter then a regular saucepan. Is my memmory correct when I think your expansion tank is not pressurised? Does it boil when working the engine long and hard? > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > Ted > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > Ted > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 21158|21137|2009-09-10 07:51:14|Paul Wilson|Re: Coolant expansion tank|I don't think you will ever have any air in the skeg if the expansion tank and cooling system is bled of air properly. I use an external tank and not the type built into the exhaust header but I think the principle is the same. My external tank is about the same size as yours, 2 gallons and there is minimal expansion (1 inch up and down) of the coolant. Since there is very little heating of coolant in the skeg due to its large size, there should be minimal expansion. The expansion tank should be above or higher than the engine pump, the engine should draw off the bottom of the skeg, and there needs to be a way for air to get out of any high spot. A small hole in a thermostat (about 1mm or 1/16 inch) allows air to get through and out to make sure the thermostat is surrounded with coolant and opens properly. Many thermostats come with this hole already, but some don't, so if you don't have one, just drill one in carefully. The hose I have coming off the top of the thermostat (the high spot) has a tube teed into it which lets air out and prevents air locks. This tube goes to the top of the expansion tank to catch any drips or overflow. Another place for air to get trapped is in the lines going to the skeg since they usually loop up and then down. After changing coolant, I sometimes get an air lock there. I manually bleed the lines (I have a fitting with a plug at the high point) and once they are filled with coolant with no way for air to get in, there is never another problem. Ideally, you should be able to fill you engine coolant through your expansion tank and it should slowly trickle through (and the air out) even without your engine running. If it doesn't, then air could get trapped somewhere if the engine pump can't work it out. Impeller pumps are better at working air through a system than centrifugal pumps but ideally, you shouldn't have to do this. I hope this is clear, if it isn't check out some of the old postings since I know there has been similar discussions on this.....search "keel cooling". Cheers, Paul theboilerflue wrote: maybe you have more air in the top of your skeg than i do my header is about 1 1/2 gallons and i assume by the hot coolant coming out of the skeg that the thermostat is working fine. Although I was curious Carl mentioned drill a hole in the thermostat as well could you explain this in a bit more detail please? Where I have the tee it's very near the thermostat so if I put in the expansion tank it would be higher than the engine and i was thinking it'd allow any air a chance to escape instead of putting it back into the system. > | 21159|21137|2009-09-10 14:41:06|brentswain38|Re: Coolant expansion tank|Yes, I top her up ccasionally, but far less since the leak near the waterpump seems to have healed itself. Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "silascrosby" wrote: > > Brent , do you have to top up the coolant on occasion ? > > > > > > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "brentswain38" wrote: > > > > Strange, my one gallon tank has never overflowed. I've never noticed any expansion. > > Brent > > > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "theboilerflue" wrote: > > > > > > I have a header tank between the skeg and the engine on the inlet side of things and i guess it's not big enough cause the coolant has expanded and over flowed out of it so... i was thinking of putting anther tank on the outlet side to act as an expansion tank, not in line but just teed off of the coolant hose. > > > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "brentswain38" wrote: > > > > > > > > The only time it ever boiled was when the belt broke on the water pump. Otherwise with a good thermostat it should never come anywhere near boiling. I just push a soft plastic pipe cap on the header tank, no need for any pressure. > > > > Brent > > > > > > > > > > > > -- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "edward_stoneuk" wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Hi Brent, > > > > > > > > > > The coolant expansion tanks that I have seen are all pressurised as are regular radiators. This enables the engine to run hotter and therefore more efficiently, much the same as a pressure cooker is hotter then a regular saucepan. Is my memmory correct when I think your expansion tank is not pressurised? Does it boil when working the engine long and hard? > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > Ted > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > Ted > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > | 21163|21163|2009-09-12 08:26:27|jpronk1|Mooring bits|I was wondering about the length of the mooring bits. How much would I have above and below the deck? What seems to work well? Thanks, James| 21164|21164|2009-09-12 08:38:21|jpronk1|Winch gear|I was also thinking about cutting a square toothed gear so I could let out anchor rode as well as pulling in the anchor rode. Would this be a good idea? James.| 21165|21164|2009-09-12 12:49:45|theboilerflue|Re: Winch gear|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "jpronk1" wrote: > > I was also thinking about cutting a square toothed gear so I could let out anchor rode as well as pulling in the anchor rode. > Would this be a good idea? > James. > I was thinking of doing that then i realised that it doesn't work since the rode will pull the drum in one direction and one direction only (unless i reverse the wrap of the rode) so reversing the pawl would just result in a bunch of ticking noises and the rode running free. If the drum turns clockwise there is a pawl stopping it from turning clockwise so it allows you to move the handle back to grap more teeth so it ratchets, for another pull in, if you release that pawl the rode runs free, so to be able to "winch out the rode" slowly there would have to be something there to stop the drum from turning which would unfortunately stop the winching out function as well. the thing to do would be to make the ratcheting pawl so that you can release on tooth at a time like on some come-alongs. Square teeth would at least allow you to wrap the rode on the drum in two directions if you like.| 21166|21164|2009-09-12 18:31:25|brentswain38|Re: Winch gear|Excellent idea . Wish I had gone that route. Then I wouldn't have mashed my finger trying to get her to back off under load. It also lets you switch the handle to the other side if you injure one shoulder. Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "jpronk1" wrote: > > I was also thinking about cutting a square toothed gear so I could let out anchor rode as well as pulling in the anchor rode. > Would this be a good idea? > James. > | 21167|21163|2009-09-12 18:37:31|brentswain38|Re: Mooring bits|I prefer 10 inches below decks and 8 inches above. Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "jpronk1" wrote: > > I was wondering about the length of the mooring bits. How much would I have above and below the deck? What seems to work well? > Thanks, > James > | 21168|21164|2009-09-12 19:19:19|brentswain38|Re: Winch gear|Excellent idea. Wish I'd done that. Then I wouldn't have squashed my fingers trying to back her off under load. It also lets you put the handle on the other side when you injure a shoulder. Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "jpronk1" wrote: > > I was also thinking about cutting a square toothed gear so I could let out anchor rode as well as pulling in the anchor rode. > Would this be a good idea? > James. > | 21169|21163|2009-09-12 20:46:05|jpronk1|Re: Mooring bits|Thanks Brent I will cut the mooring bits tomorrow. I made up a set of blocks for my catalina 27 using the plans from you book. It took less then an hour to make both and they look good (saved me a bit of cash too) Thank you James --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "brentswain38" wrote: > > I prefer 10 inches below decks and 8 inches above. > Brent > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "jpronk1" wrote: > > > > I was wondering about the length of the mooring bits. How much would I have above and below the deck? What seems to work well? > > Thanks, > > James > > > | 21170|21164|2009-09-12 21:06:34|jpronk1|Re: Winch gear|Hey Brent what are you using for the center of your drum and for the axle though the drum? James --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "brentswain38" wrote: > > Excellent idea. Wish I'd done that. Then I wouldn't have squashed my fingers trying to back her off under load. It also lets you put the handle on the other side when you injure a shoulder. > Brent > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "jpronk1" wrote: > > > > I was also thinking about cutting a square toothed gear so I could let out anchor rode as well as pulling in the anchor rode. > > Would this be a good idea? > > James. > > > | 21171|21164|2009-09-13 09:40:33|audeojude|Re: Winch gear|maybe a lever that when you pull on it just friction brakes the drum and allows you to control the speed at which the anchor and rode pay out. That would seem to be a very simple solution. If you wanted to get real fancy you could bolt a rear drum brake from a small auto with the emergency brake mechanisim that is on them. You could have a small brake handle that actuates it or work up a foot peddle that does the same thing.. If you use a brake drum off of a very common car such as a chevy or ford that has had millions of them made it will be cheap to get one from the junk yard and cheap if you want to buy parts for it such as brake pads etc from the auto store. Biggest issue is it is all steel so would be subject to pretty bad rust I would think. Of course you could paint the outside of it well and see how bad the interior rusted over time. The how brake assembly just bolts on the end of the axle on most of those cars.. just 4 bolts.. you could weld a plate on the end of your spool shaft and just bolt it on. scott > > I was thinking of doing that then i realised that it doesn't work since the rode will pull the drum in one direction and one direction only (unless i reverse the wrap of the rode) so reversing the pawl would just result in a bunch of ticking noises and the rode running free. If the drum turns clockwise there is a pawl stopping it from turning clockwise so it allows you to move the handle back to grap more teeth so it ratchets, for another pull in, if you release that pawl the rode runs free, so to be able to "winch out the rode" slowly there would have to be something there to stop the drum from turning which would unfortunately stop the winching out function as well. the thing to do would be to make the ratcheting pawl so that you can release on tooth at a time like on some come-alongs. > Square teeth would at least allow you to wrap the rode on the drum in two directions if you like. > | 21172|21164|2009-09-13 10:28:36|donalphilby|Re: Winch gear|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "audeojude" wrote: > > maybe a lever that when you pull on it just friction brakes the drum and allows you to control the speed at which the anchor and rode pay out. How about adapting a bicycle or better, a motorcycle disc brake system. Probably cheap at a wrecking yard. donal| 21173|21164|2009-09-13 11:01:25|theboilerflue|Re: Winch gear|I just have a piece of wood handy so i can jam it into the teeth or just grab the drum if it's not spinning too fast. Certainly not conforming to any worksafe standards but works pretty good. --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "donalphilby" wrote: > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "audeojude" wrote: > > > > maybe a lever that when you pull on it just friction brakes the drum and allows you to control the speed at which the anchor and rode pay out. > > How about adapting a bicycle or better, a motorcycle disc brake system. Probably cheap at a wrecking yard. > > donal > | 21174|21164|2009-09-13 15:03:18|brentswain38|Re: Winch gear|I use 2 inch sch 40 for the centre of the drum and 1 inch sch 40 pipe for the axle. Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "jpronk1" wrote: > > Hey Brent > what are you using for the center of your drum and for the axle though the drum? > James > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "brentswain38" wrote: > > > > Excellent idea. Wish I'd done that. Then I wouldn't have squashed my fingers trying to back her off under load. It also lets you put the handle on the other side when you injure a shoulder. > > Brent > > > > > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "jpronk1" wrote: > > > > > > I was also thinking about cutting a square toothed gear so I could let out anchor rode as well as pulling in the anchor rode. > > > Would this be a good idea? > > > James. > > > > > > | 21175|21163|2009-09-13 15:13:33|brentswain38|Re: Mooring bits|I leave the doubler plate off, so I can get a good airtight weld from the top between the mooring bit and the deck. Then I put the doubler on in two halves. One could weld the underside of the bit to the decks, but it's an extremely awkward weld, and hard to get airtight. If it is not airtight, heat of the sun expanding the air between the doubler and the deck can blow the epoxy off, and then every time it warms up and then cools , air and moisture can get sucked in , causing corrosion between the doubler and the decks. One could warm the doubler with the sun or torch, before putting the epoxy on the inside , but the former method eliminates the problem. Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "jpronk1" wrote: > > Thanks Brent > I will cut the mooring bits tomorrow. > I made up a set of blocks for my catalina 27 using the plans from you book. It took less then an hour to make both and they look good (saved me a bit of cash too) > Thank you > James > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "brentswain38" wrote: > > > > I prefer 10 inches below decks and 8 inches above. > > Brent > > > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "jpronk1" wrote: > > > > > > I was wondering about the length of the mooring bits. How much would I have above and below the deck? What seems to work well? > > > Thanks, > > > James > > > > > > | 21176|21164|2009-09-13 15:16:48|brentswain38|Re: Winch gear|In the last 30 years of using this winch, I've never felt the need for any kind of brake. I just put my foot on the drum, then kick the pawl in when I want to stop her. Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "audeojude" wrote: > > maybe a lever that when you pull on it just friction brakes the drum and allows you to control the speed at which the anchor and rode pay out. That would seem to be a very simple solution. If you wanted to get real fancy you could bolt a rear drum brake from a small auto with the emergency brake mechanisim that is on them. You could have a small brake handle that actuates it or work up a foot peddle that does the same thing.. If you use a brake drum off of a very common car such as a chevy or ford that has had millions of them made it will be cheap to get one from the junk yard and cheap if you want to buy parts for it such as brake pads etc from the auto store. Biggest issue is it is all steel so would be subject to pretty bad rust I would think. Of course you could paint the outside of it well and see how bad the interior rusted over time. > > The how brake assembly just bolts on the end of the axle on most of those cars.. just 4 bolts.. you could weld a plate on the end of your spool shaft and just bolt it on. > scott > > > > > > > I was thinking of doing that then i realised that it doesn't work since the rode will pull the drum in one direction and one direction only (unless i reverse the wrap of the rode) so reversing the pawl would just result in a bunch of ticking noises and the rode running free. If the drum turns clockwise there is a pawl stopping it from turning clockwise so it allows you to move the handle back to grap more teeth so it ratchets, for another pull in, if you release that pawl the rode runs free, so to be able to "winch out the rode" slowly there would have to be something there to stop the drum from turning which would unfortunately stop the winching out function as well. the thing to do would be to make the ratcheting pawl so that you can release on tooth at a time like on some come-alongs. > > Square teeth would at least allow you to wrap the rode on the drum in two directions if you like. > > > | 21177|21163|2009-09-13 17:00:33|jpronk1|Re: Mooring bits|Hey Brent Do you like using one or two mooring bits forward? Thank you, James --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "brentswain38" wrote: > > I prefer 10 inches below decks and 8 inches above. > Brent > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "jpronk1" wrote: > > > > I was wondering about the length of the mooring bits. How much would I have above and below the deck? What seems to work well? > > Thanks, > > James > > > | 21178|21178|2009-09-13 18:03:20|inter4905|riging wire|How many rigging wire are you suppose to use on a 36 ft sailboat mast, I am asking this because from many pictures I looked at, some boats seems to have different wire configuration from one to the other. Is there a better way to do it?| 21179|21164|2009-09-13 20:20:24|Paul Wilson|Re: Winch gear|I do the same and it works great...no need for a brake. I have an old stick I jam between the edge of the drum and the drum frame. It is good enough to stop the drum even when it is spinning out with the boat going full speed. Cheers, Paul theboilerflue wrote: > > > I just have a piece of wood handy so i can jam it into the teeth or > just grab the drum if it's not spinning too fast. Certainly not > conforming to any worksafe standards but works pretty good. > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > , "donalphilby" > wrote: > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > , "audeojude" wrote: > > > > > > maybe a lever that when you pull on it just friction brakes the > drum and allows you to control the speed at which the anchor and rode > pay out. > > > > How about adapting a bicycle or better, a motorcycle disc brake > system. Probably cheap at a wrecking yard. > > > > donal > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.409 / Virus Database: 270.13.94/2367 - Release Date: 09/13/09 05:50:00 > > | 21180|21163|2009-09-13 22:15:16|brentswain38|Re: Mooring bits|I use one, and see no need for more. It makes a good level wind for the winch. Just flip the rode from one side of the bit to the other. Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "jpronk1" wrote: > > Hey Brent > Do you like using one or two mooring bits forward? > Thank you, > James > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "brentswain38" wrote: > > > > I prefer 10 inches below decks and 8 inches above. > > Brent > > > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "jpronk1" wrote: > > > > > > I was wondering about the length of the mooring bits. How much would I have above and below the deck? What seems to work well? > > > Thanks, > > > James > > > > > > | 21181|21178|2009-09-13 22:17:24|brentswain38|Re: riging wire|The rig in the plans with a single spreader rig are all you need. Double spreaders are for much narrower boats. I use about 350 ft on a 36 footer, 5/16th 1x7 galvanised high tensile( sch 180) Brent -- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "inter4905" wrote: > > > > How many rigging wire are you suppose to use on a 36 ft sailboat mast, > I am asking this because from many pictures I looked at, some boats seems to have different wire configuration from one to the other. Is there a better way to do it? > | 21182|21182|2009-09-13 23:34:11|mickeyolaf|Swain 36' Hull Paint / Amounts Used|Our 36 hull used 5.5 gallons of primer sprayed continuously over 6 hours for 3 coats. Paint 14 hours later used 3 complete plus a bit gallons for 3 coats. Silver grey. Very close to Navy color. Where do I buy twin 50's for the bow? About 4 small areas to repair on freeboard due to my poor fairing. Bottom not perfect but I don't think the fish care. Will improve it every spring haul out. UV clear coat tomorrow, probably 3 gallons also. What learned? Always buy more product than manufacturer recommends re coverage. Keep feather edger flat. Build boat when young man not when old. Just put nine straight 12 hour days in. As I start to look worse boat is starting to look good. Another job completed on the long road to the water.| 21183|21178|2009-09-14 02:50:05|martin demers|Re: riging wire|Brent,do you attach all the wires to the top of the mast?also , to calculate the lenght of each wire, do you use mesurements from a square triangle? martin. To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com From: brentswain38@... Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 02:17:15 +0000 Subject: [origamiboats] Re: riging wire The rig in the plans with a single spreader rig are all you need. Double spreaders are for much narrower boats. I use about 350 ft on a 36 footer, 5/16th 1x7 galvanised high tensile( sch 180) Brent -- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "inter4905" wrote: > > > > How many rigging wire are you suppose to use on a 36 ft sailboat mast, > I am asking this because from many pictures I looked at, some boats seems to have different wire configuration from one to the other. Is there a better way to do it? > _________________________________________________________________ Cliquez moins, discutez plus : nouvel accès à Messenger http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9677414 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]| 21185|21182|2009-09-14 06:55:20|jpronk1|Re: Swain 36' Hull Paint / Amounts Used|Sounds good! Do you have any photos? I think we would all love to see it. James --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "mickeyolaf" wrote: > > Our 36 hull used 5.5 gallons of primer sprayed continuously over 6 hours for 3 coats. > Paint 14 hours later used 3 complete plus a bit gallons for 3 coats. Silver grey. Very close to Navy color. Where do I buy twin 50's for the bow? > About 4 small areas to repair on freeboard due to my poor fairing. Bottom not perfect but I don't think the fish care. Will improve it every spring haul out. > UV clear coat tomorrow, probably 3 gallons also. > What learned? Always buy more product than manufacturer recommends re coverage. Keep feather edger flat. Build boat when young man not when old. > Just put nine straight 12 hour days in. As I start to look worse boat is starting to look good. Another job completed on the long road to the water. > | 21186|21186|2009-09-14 11:46:29|mark hamill|Re: rigging wire|Brent: Suggestions for where to buy wire in the Comox valley? Thanks [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]| 21187|21178|2009-09-14 14:36:44|theboilerflue|Re: riging wire|Good question it is kinda confusing, here in the Comox valley there are three boats all with different configurations (well, now there are four i guess) options seem to be two backstays, one main forestay or two twin forestays, an inner forestay, four lower shrouds and/or intermediate shrouds and the top shrouds, and for those with recent rig problems: running backsays. I went with 4 lowers and intermediate shrouds and single forestay and inner forestay Got my rigging from north island ropes cost was 440 dollars 1x7 HIGH TENSILE 5/16 galv wire at 34 cents a foot and the ends pulled into eyes for slightly under 10 bucks an end, make sure to get steel sleaves not galv-copper or aluminuim something they seem over zealous about supplying for some reason I got regular mild steel sleeves put on and I'll just paint them although if you ask they may be able to get galv ones in just make sure they AREN'T COPPER and is HIGH TENSILE with a breaking strength of 11,750 lbs or something close to it. Also, maybe it'd be worth checking out Cokely Wire Rope on 16th in campbell river 250-286-1871 just went by them today, never heard of them before but sounds like they sell wire rope - never can be too sure though. --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "inter4905" wrote: > > > > How many rigging wire are you suppose to use on a 36 ft sailboat mast, > I am asking this because from many pictures I looked at, some boats seems to have different wire configuration from one to the other. Is there a better way to do it? > | 21188|21178|2009-09-14 16:08:34|silascrosby|Re: rigging wire|You can also get SS sleeves through Northern Rope. Brion Toss in 'The Riggers Apprentice ' is an advocate of galvanised wire rope , but on his forum 'Spar Talk' he states that 1x7 galv is too stiff to form around thimbles and can't be spliced , so really is 'not suitable for sailboat rigging'. However we , many of us, have had good experience with 1x7 stiff wire rope , the loops often need the services of a forklift to pull tight but the resulting eyes are fair with no wire distortion. It's about as close to rod-rigging as one can get without the risk of sudden failure. Does anyone know of Galv 1x7 failure on a yacht ? Carl of M.O.M. , Is your boat rigged with spliced 5/16" 1x7 throughout ? And what have you used at the bottom of your Jibstay , under the furler ? Cast socket or Cable clamps ? I am going to take my forestay apart to replace the wire and the full-length plastic conduit bearing. So I have to melt the zinc out of the Spelter socket (also called 'castlock', I think). I hope to re-use it although I may replace it with new. I understand there may be mechanical end fittings available as well ( like Norseman) for galvanised wire rope. Rather than molten zinc, I believe there is a resin available for the same purpose. I need about 15 mls with the smallest available can about 100mls with a short shelf life. I'm quite interested in rigging at the moment. Steve --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "theboilerflue" wrote: > > Good question it is kinda confusing, here in the Comox valley there are three boats all with different configurations (well, now there are four i guess) options seem to be two backstays, one main forestay or two twin forestays, an inner forestay, four lower shrouds and/or intermediate shrouds and the top shrouds, and for those with recent rig problems: running backsays. I went with 4 lowers and intermediate shrouds and single forestay and inner forestay > > Got my rigging from north island ropes cost was 440 dollars 1x7 HIGH TENSILE 5/16 galv wire at 34 cents a foot and the ends pulled into eyes for slightly under 10 bucks an end, make sure to get steel sleaves not galv-copper or aluminuim something they seem over zealous about supplying for some reason I got regular mild steel sleeves put on and I'll just paint them although if you ask they may be able to get galv ones in just make sure they AREN'T COPPER and is HIGH TENSILE with a breaking strength of 11,750 lbs or something close to it. Also, maybe it'd be worth checking out Cokely Wire Rope on 16th in campbell river 250-286-1871 just went by them today, never heard of them before but sounds like they sell wire rope - never can be too sure though. > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "inter4905" wrote: > > > > > > > > How many rigging wire are you suppose to use on a 36 ft sailboat mast, > > I am asking this because from many pictures I looked at, some boats seems to have different wire configuration from one to the other. Is there a better way to do it? > > > | 21189|21178|2009-09-14 17:19:07|Carl Anderson|Re: rigging wire|I used 3/8" galvanized 1X7 EHS for all the standing rigging on MOM. All the eyes are hand spliced using a rigging vise & serving iron. It was quite tight to turn the eye beneath the roller furler drum. All the eyes on the bottom of each shroud & stay have full tarred nylon service on them and are covered with Wasser tar. The top eyes have service over the splice but not under the thimble and again are covered with Wasser tar. These "hand turned" eyes tested stronger than the "swaged" eyes when I tested to destruction on 2 of them. Carl sv-mom.com silascrosby wrote: > > > You can also get SS sleeves through Northern Rope. > > Brion Toss in 'The Riggers Apprentice ' is an advocate of galvanised > wire rope , but on his forum 'Spar Talk' he states that 1x7 galv is too > stiff to form around thimbles and can't be spliced , so really is 'not > suitable for sailboat rigging'. > However we , many of us, have had good experience with 1x7 stiff wire > rope , the loops often need the services of a forklift to pull tight but > the resulting eyes are fair with no wire distortion. > It's about as close to rod-rigging as one can get without the risk of > sudden failure. > > Does anyone know of Galv 1x7 failure on a yacht ? > > Carl of M.O.M. , Is your boat rigged with spliced 5/16" 1x7 throughout ? > > And what have you used at the bottom of your Jibstay , under the furler > ? Cast socket or Cable clamps ? > I am going to take my forestay apart to replace the wire and the > full-length plastic conduit bearing. So I have to melt the zinc out of > the Spelter socket (also called 'castlock', I think). I hope to re-use > it although I may replace it with new. I understand there may be > mechanical end fittings available as well ( like Norseman) for > galvanised wire rope. > Rather than molten zinc, I believe there is a resin available for the > same purpose. I need about 15 mls with the smallest available can about > 100mls with a short shelf life. > > I'm quite interested in rigging at the moment. > > Steve > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > , "theboilerflue" wrote: > > > > Good question it is kinda confusing, here in the Comox valley there > are three boats all with different configurations (well, now there are > four i guess) options seem to be two backstays, one main forestay or two > twin forestays, an inner forestay, four lower shrouds and/or > intermediate shrouds and the top shrouds, and for those with recent rig > problems: running backsays. I went with 4 lowers and intermediate > shrouds and single forestay and inner forestay > > > > Got my rigging from north island ropes cost was 440 dollars 1x7 HIGH > TENSILE 5/16 galv wire at 34 cents a foot and the ends pulled into eyes > for slightly under 10 bucks an end, make sure to get steel sleaves not > galv-copper or aluminuim something they seem over zealous about > supplying for some reason I got regular mild steel sleeves put on and > I'll just paint them although if you ask they may be able to get galv > ones in just make sure they AREN'T COPPER and is HIGH TENSILE with a > breaking strength of 11,750 lbs or something close to it. Also, maybe > it'd be worth checking out Cokely Wire Rope on 16th in campbell river > 250-286-1871 just went by them today, never heard of them before but > sounds like they sell wire rope - never can be too sure though. > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > , "inter4905" wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > How many rigging wire are you suppose to use on a 36 ft sailboat mast, > > > I am asking this because from many pictures I looked at, some boats > seems to have different wire configuration from one to the other. Is > there a better way to do it? > > > > > > | 21190|21178|2009-09-14 17:25:11|Carl Anderson|new PowerPoint presentation|I have added a new PowerPoint presentation on the construction of our refrigerator for anyone that might be interested. Carl sv-mom.com| 21191|21178|2009-09-14 19:21:20|brentswain38|Re: riging wire|When Andy got his done at North Island ropes they did it in soft wire, about 1/3rd the strength of high tensile and nickle plated copper sleeves . He had a job demanding they do it over again, properly. I have found enough high tensile galv 5/16th 1X7 in scrapyards ,still on the reel, to rig a 36, for $25 Twin headstays don't work. The sail unavoidably chafes on one. Roller furling makes twin headstays pointless. There is no needfor more than one set of spreaders. Twin back satys make the cockpit a lot roomier. --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "theboilerflue" wrote: > > Good question it is kinda confusing, here in the Comox valley there are three boats all with different configurations (well, now there are four i guess) options seem to be two backstays, one main forestay or two twin forestays, an inner forestay, four lower shrouds and/or intermediate shrouds and the top shrouds, and for those with recent rig problems: running backsays. I went with 4 lowers and intermediate shrouds and single forestay and inner forestay > > Got my rigging from north island ropes cost was 440 dollars 1x7 HIGH TENSILE 5/16 galv wire at 34 cents a foot and the ends pulled into eyes for slightly under 10 bucks an end, make sure to get steel sleaves not galv-copper or aluminuim something they seem over zealous about supplying for some reason I got regular mild steel sleeves put on and I'll just paint them although if you ask they may be able to get galv ones in just make sure they AREN'T COPPER and is HIGH TENSILE with a breaking strength of 11,750 lbs or something close to it. Also, maybe it'd be worth checking out Cokely Wire Rope on 16th in campbell river 250-286-1871 just went by them today, never heard of them before but sounds like they sell wire rope - never can be too sure though. > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "inter4905" wrote: > > > > > > > > How many rigging wire are you suppose to use on a 36 ft sailboat mast, > > I am asking this because from many pictures I looked at, some boats seems to have different wire configuration from one to the other. Is there a better way to do it? > > > | 21192|21178|2009-09-14 19:27:35|brentswain38|Re: rigging wire|Pre kinking the high tensile 1x7 where it joins the thimble makes it easy to put around the thimble. I have heard of epoxy in sockets being blown out in a lightening strike , leaving the rig free to fall. I've never heard of a high tensile 1x7 failure on any of my boats . --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "silascrosby" wrote: > > You can also get SS sleeves through Northern Rope. > > Brion Toss in 'The Riggers Apprentice ' is an advocate of galvanised wire rope , but on his forum 'Spar Talk' he states that 1x7 galv is too stiff to form around thimbles and can't be spliced , so really is 'not suitable for sailboat rigging'. > However we , many of us, have had good experience with 1x7 stiff wire rope , the loops often need the services of a forklift to pull tight but the resulting eyes are fair with no wire distortion. > It's about as close to rod-rigging as one can get without the risk of sudden failure. > > Does anyone know of Galv 1x7 failure on a yacht ? > > Carl of M.O.M. , Is your boat rigged with spliced 5/16" 1x7 throughout ? > > And what have you used at the bottom of your Jibstay , under the furler ? Cast socket or Cable clamps ? > I am going to take my forestay apart to replace the wire and the full-length plastic conduit bearing. So I have to melt the zinc out of the Spelter socket (also called 'castlock', I think). I hope to re-use it although I may replace it with new. I understand there may be mechanical end fittings available as well ( like Norseman) for galvanised wire rope. > Rather than molten zinc, I believe there is a resin available for the same purpose. I need about 15 mls with the smallest available can about 100mls with a short shelf life. > > I'm quite interested in rigging at the moment. > > Steve > > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "theboilerflue" wrote: > > > > Good question it is kinda confusing, here in the Comox valley there are three boats all with different configurations (well, now there are four i guess) options seem to be two backstays, one main forestay or two twin forestays, an inner forestay, four lower shrouds and/or intermediate shrouds and the top shrouds, and for those with recent rig problems: running backsays. I went with 4 lowers and intermediate shrouds and single forestay and inner forestay > > > > Got my rigging from north island ropes cost was 440 dollars 1x7 HIGH TENSILE 5/16 galv wire at 34 cents a foot and the ends pulled into eyes for slightly under 10 bucks an end, make sure to get steel sleaves not galv-copper or aluminuim something they seem over zealous about supplying for some reason I got regular mild steel sleeves put on and I'll just paint them although if you ask they may be able to get galv ones in just make sure they AREN'T COPPER and is HIGH TENSILE with a breaking strength of 11,750 lbs or something close to it. Also, maybe it'd be worth checking out Cokely Wire Rope on 16th in campbell river 250-286-1871 just went by them today, never heard of them before but sounds like they sell wire rope - never can be too sure though. > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "inter4905" wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > How many rigging wire are you suppose to use on a 36 ft sailboat mast, > > > I am asking this because from many pictures I looked at, some boats seems to have different wire configuration from one to the other. Is there a better way to do it? > > > > > > | 21193|21163|2009-09-14 19:32:48|brentswain38|Re: Mooring bits|Evan, having zero experience, couldn't grasp the idea of a mooring bit in front of the winch, so he started putting in two. It is not a problem , but that is hard for anyone with zero experience to comprehend. It does increase the amount of wages he gets for detailing a boat, so he continues using two bits. --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "jpronk1" wrote: > > Hey Brent > Do you like using one or two mooring bits forward? > Thank you, > James > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "brentswain38" wrote: > > > > I prefer 10 inches below decks and 8 inches above. > > Brent > > > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "jpronk1" wrote: > > > > > > I was wondering about the length of the mooring bits. How much would I have above and below the deck? What seems to work well? > > > Thanks, > > > James > > > > > > | 21195|21178|2009-09-15 08:03:07|jason ball|Re: rigging wire|can anyone give me an address, phone number, e-mail for north island ropes? thanks  --- On Tue, 15/9/09, brentswain38 wrote: From: brentswain38 Subject: [origamiboats] Re: rigging wire To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, 15 September, 2009, 12:26 AM   Pre kinking the high tensile 1x7 where it joins the thimble makes it easy to put around the thimble. I have heard of epoxy in sockets being blown out in a lightening strike , leaving the rig free to fall. I've never heard of a high tensile 1x7 failure on any of my boats . --- In origamiboats@ yahoogroups. com, "silascrosby" wrote: > > You can also get SS sleeves through Northern Rope. > > Brion Toss in 'The Riggers Apprentice ' is an advocate of galvanised wire rope , but on his forum 'Spar Talk' he states that 1x7 galv is too stiff to form around thimbles and can't be spliced , so really is 'not suitable for sailboat rigging'. > However we , many of us, have had good experience with 1x7 stiff wire rope , the loops often need the services of a forklift to pull tight but the resulting eyes are fair with no wire distortion. > It's about as close to rod-rigging as one can get without the risk of sudden failure. > > Does anyone know of Galv 1x7 failure on a yacht ? > > Carl of M.O.M. , Is your boat rigged with spliced 5/16" 1x7 throughout ? > > And what have you used at the bottom of your Jibstay , under the furler ? Cast socket or Cable clamps ? > I am going to take my forestay apart to replace the wire and the full-length plastic conduit bearing. So I have to melt the zinc out of the Spelter socket (also called 'castlock', I think). I hope to re-use it although I may replace it with new. I understand there may be mechanical end fittings available as well ( like Norseman) for galvanised wire rope. > Rather than molten zinc, I believe there is a resin available for the same purpose. I need about 15 mls with the smallest available can about 100mls with a short shelf life. > > I'm quite interested in rigging at the moment. > > Steve > > > > > --- In origamiboats@ yahoogroups. com, "theboilerflue" wrote: > > > > Good question it is kinda confusing, here in the Comox valley there are three boats all with different configurations (well, now there are four i guess) options seem to be two backstays, one main forestay or two twin forestays, an inner forestay, four lower shrouds and/or intermediate shrouds and the top shrouds, and for those with recent rig problems: running backsays.. I went with 4 lowers and intermediate shrouds and single forestay and inner forestay > > > > Got my rigging from north island ropes cost was 440 dollars 1x7 HIGH TENSILE 5/16 galv wire at 34 cents a foot and the ends pulled into eyes for slightly under 10 bucks an end, make sure to get steel sleaves not galv-copper or aluminuim something they seem over zealous about supplying for some reason I got regular mild steel sleeves put on and I'll just paint them although if you ask they may be able to get galv ones in just make sure they AREN'T COPPER and is HIGH TENSILE with a breaking strength of 11,750 lbs or something close to it. Also, maybe it'd be worth checking out Cokely Wire Rope on 16th in campbell river 250-286-1871 just went by them today, never heard of them before but sounds like they sell wire rope - never can be too sure though. > > > > --- In origamiboats@ yahoogroups. com, "inter4905" wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > How many rigging wire are you suppose to use on a 36 ft sailboat mast, > > > I am asking this because from many pictures I looked at, some boats seems to have different wire configuration from one to the other. Is there a better way to do it? > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 21196|21178|2009-09-15 10:59:48|silascrosby|Re: rigging wire|Northern Ropes & Industrial Supply Ltd 259 Puntledge Road Courtenay, BC V9N 3P9 (250) 334-3707‎ no website --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, jason ball wrote: > > can anyone give me an address, phone number, e-mail for north island ropes? thanks  > > --- On Tue, 15/9/09, brentswain38 wrote: > > > From: brentswain38 > Subject: [origamiboats] Re: rigging wire > To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > Date: Tuesday, 15 September, 2009, 12:26 AM > > >   > > > > Pre kinking the high tensile 1x7 where it joins the thimble makes it easy to put around the thimble. > I have heard of epoxy in sockets being blown out in a lightening strike , leaving the rig free to fall. > I've never heard of a high tensile 1x7 failure on any of my boats . > > --- In origamiboats@ yahoogroups. com, "silascrosby" wrote: > > > > You can also get SS sleeves through Northern Rope. > > > > Brion Toss in 'The Riggers Apprentice ' is an advocate of galvanised wire rope , but on his forum 'Spar Talk' he states that 1x7 galv is too stiff to form around thimbles and can't be spliced , so really is 'not suitable for sailboat rigging'. > > However we , many of us, have had good experience with 1x7 stiff wire rope , the loops often need the services of a forklift to pull tight but the resulting eyes are fair with no wire distortion. > > It's about as close to rod-rigging as one can get without the risk of sudden failure. > > > > Does anyone know of Galv 1x7 failure on a yacht ? > > > > Carl of M.O.M. , Is your boat rigged with spliced 5/16" 1x7 throughout ? > > > > And what have you used at the bottom of your Jibstay , under the furler ? Cast socket or Cable clamps ? > > I am going to take my forestay apart to replace the wire and the full-length plastic conduit bearing. So I have to melt the zinc out of the Spelter socket (also called 'castlock', I think). I hope to re-use it although I may replace it with new. I understand there may be mechanical end fittings available as well ( like Norseman) for galvanised wire rope. > > Rather than molten zinc, I believe there is a resin available for the same purpose. I need about 15 mls with the smallest available can about 100mls with a short shelf life. > > > > I'm quite interested in rigging at the moment. > > > > Steve > > > > > > > > > > --- In origamiboats@ yahoogroups. com, "theboilerflue" wrote: > > > > > > Good question it is kinda confusing, here in the Comox valley there are three boats all with different configurations (well, now there are four i guess) options seem to be two backstays, one main forestay or two twin forestays, an inner forestay, four lower shrouds and/or intermediate shrouds and the top shrouds, and for those with recent rig problems: running backsays.. I went with 4 lowers and intermediate shrouds and single forestay and inner forestay > > > > > > Got my rigging from north island ropes cost was 440 dollars 1x7 HIGH TENSILE 5/16 galv wire at 34 cents a foot and the ends pulled into eyes for slightly under 10 bucks an end, make sure to get steel sleaves not galv-copper or aluminuim something they seem over zealous about supplying for some reason I got regular mild steel sleeves put on and I'll just paint them although if you ask they may be able to get galv ones in just make sure they AREN'T COPPER and is HIGH TENSILE with a breaking strength of 11,750 lbs or something close to it. Also, maybe it'd be worth checking out Cokely Wire Rope on 16th in campbell river 250-286-1871 just went by them today, never heard of them before but sounds like they sell wire rope - never can be too sure though. > > > > > > --- In origamiboats@ yahoogroups. com, "inter4905" wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > How many rigging wire are you suppose to use on a 36 ft sailboat mast, > > > > I am asking this because from many pictures I looked at, some boats seems to have different wire configuration from one to the other. Is there a better way to do it? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > | 21197|21178|2009-09-15 14:24:21|donalphilby|Re: rigging wire|> I am going to take my forestay apart to replace the wire and the full-length plastic conduit bearing. So I have to melt the zinc out of the Spelter socket (also called 'castlock', I think). I hope to re-use it although I may replace it with new. I understand there may be mechanical end fittings available as well ( like Norseman) for galvanised wire rope. > Rather than molten zinc, I believe there is a resin available for the same purpose. I need about 15 mls with the smallest available can about 100mls with a short shelf life. The resin has a shelf life of 6 months. It is easy to work, but you are right, expensive since the smallest can (and you have to mix it all, according to the authorities) did only three sockets on our boat and cost $35-40. But they are available in virtually every country in the world. But then so is zinc or lead. Using metal is rather more exciting than the epoxy. I need to find a smallish heavy iron ladle with with very small but long spout. The one we used had too large a spout and was awkward to control. I built a holder for several sockets out of a couple chunks of 2x4. With the pieces clamped together, I drilled holes for 5/16 and 3/8 down the center. Wiggle the drill a bit for the taper of the socket. Before we rigged the boat we tested the sockets and wire. Used both zinc and epoxy (the way it smells I'd say it is probably vinylester, really, but couldn't get an answer out of anyone). In six pulls the wire broke well above the wire's rating and always at the tellurid (big nicropress) applied by the testing company and with absolutely no distortion of the sockets (bronze). We were using 1x19. A friend who is a traditional boatbuilder and rigger said he didn't like sockets since he lost a rig when the wire just pulled out of the socket, leaving wire sized holes. I just so love the look of the poured sockets that we went ahead anyway, but with a twist. I pulled the 1x19 through the socket and unlayed all the wires, then began in the center bending a 180 degree hook in each wire with the short end toward the center of the bundle. Took about 10 minutes a socket for that. I wish we had tested a socket without any zinc, as the resulting bundle fits tightly and probably wouldn't pull out. Very important to bend the hooks to the center, otherwise you are dealing with 19 independent minds, but if you do, things nest and slide right into place. If you don't unlay and distort the wires slightly, they want to go right back into place, preventing coverage with the zinc or resin. Before pouring, the splayed end was cleaned with 3M universal solvent and a wire brush. I suspect that most uses of sockets--industrial rigging, elevators and suspension bridges--use 7x7. In my limited search I didn't find anyone with knowledge of anything else. My only reservation about using speltered socket with 1x7 is that the surface area is far less than that of 7x7 or even 1x19. Perhaps the hook treatment might be useful as belts and suspenders approach. Brent mentioned risk of lightening melting the resin, but the melting point of lead and zinc is not much higher relative to the temperatures generated by lightening. Just one of those risks. With the hooked basket, even if the filler melted, the wire would probably only settle in the socket, rather than pull out, and leave you with a limp rig. So sad. donal| 21198|22|2009-09-15 16:20:32|origamiboats@yahoogroups.com|New file uploaded to origamiboats |Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the origamiboats group. File : /val 29 foot trimamran/IMG_0114.JPG Uploaded by : valery19772000 Description : You can access this file at the URL: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/files/val%2029%20foot%20trimamran/IMG_0114.JPG To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit: http://help.yahoo.com/l/us/yahoo/groups/original/general.htmlfiles Regards, valery19772000 | 21199|22|2009-09-15 16:20:55|origamiboats@yahoogroups.com|New file uploaded to origamiboats |Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the origamiboats group. File : /val 29 foot trimamran/IMG_0115.JPG Uploaded by : valery19772000 Description : You can access this file at the URL: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/files/val%2029%20foot%20trimamran/IMG_0115.JPG To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit: http://help.yahoo.com/l/us/yahoo/groups/original/general.htmlfiles Regards, valery19772000 | 21200|22|2009-09-15 16:21:43|origamiboats@yahoogroups.com|New file uploaded to origamiboats |Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the origamiboats group. File : /val 29 foot trimamran/IMG_0117.JPG Uploaded by : valery19772000 Description : You can access this file at the URL: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/files/val%2029%20foot%20trimamran/IMG_0117.JPG To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit: http://help.yahoo.com/l/us/yahoo/groups/original/general.htmlfiles Regards, valery19772000 | 21201|22|2009-09-15 16:21:58|origamiboats@yahoogroups.com|New file uploaded to origamiboats |Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the origamiboats group. File : /val 29 foot trimamran/IMG_0116.JPG Uploaded by : valery19772000 Description : You can access this file at the URL: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/files/val%2029%20foot%20trimamran/IMG_0116.JPG To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit: http://help.yahoo.com/l/us/yahoo/groups/original/general.htmlfiles Regards, valery19772000 | 21202|22|2009-09-15 16:22:19|origamiboats@yahoogroups.com|New file uploaded to origamiboats |Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the origamiboats group. File : /val 29 foot trimamran/IMG_0118.JPG Uploaded by : valery19772000 Description : You can access this file at the URL: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/files/val%2029%20foot%20trimamran/IMG_0118.JPG To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit: http://help.yahoo.com/l/us/yahoo/groups/original/general.htmlfiles Regards, valery19772000 | 21203|21203|2009-09-15 16:25:42|valery19772000|aluminum trimaran in construction.|Just uploaded some picture of my project. Might be of interest for somone on this group. This is atrimaran that I am building using riveted aluminum. The bat is not done but I am getting there pretty soon .Hopefully before the winter.| 21204|22|2009-09-15 16:43:40|origamiboats@yahoogroups.com|New file uploaded to origamiboats |Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the origamiboats group. File : /Imagiro Boats./229-pic110.jpg Uploaded by : yvesmariedetanton Description : Shaping steel. Aview from the bow on the 39. You can access this file at the URL: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/files/Imagiro%20Boats./229-pic110.jpg To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit: http://help.yahoo.com/l/us/yahoo/groups/original/general.htmlfiles Regards, yvesmariedetanton | 21205|21203|2009-09-15 16:57:22|svseeker@ymail.com|Re: aluminum trimaran in construction.|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "valery19772000" wrote: > > Just uploaded some picture of my project. Might be of interest for somone on this group. This is atrimaran that I am building using riveted aluminum. The bat is not done but I am getting there pretty soon .Hopefully before the winter. > Cool! Thanks for sharing. How do you figure out if the cross members will take the load from the stays and waves? Doug J SubmarineBoat.com| 21206|21178|2009-09-15 18:20:27|brentswain38|Re: rigging wire|In a lighting strike, you get better electrical grounding with metal in the sockets, and thus far less heat buildup. I believe most failures of poured sockets, if not all failures, are due to their not bothering to bend the ends of the wires back.I've seen that happen. Zinc is plentiful on old tide grids and haulouts , for free. --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "donalphilby" wrote: > > > > I am going to take my forestay apart to replace the wire and the full-length plastic conduit bearing. So I have to melt the zinc out of the Spelter socket (also called 'castlock', I think). I hope to re-use it although I may replace it with new. I understand there may be mechanical end fittings available as well ( like Norseman) for galvanised wire rope. > > Rather than molten zinc, I believe there is a resin available for the same purpose. I need about 15 mls with the smallest available can about 100mls with a short shelf life. > > The resin has a shelf life of 6 months. It is easy to work, but you are right, expensive since the smallest can (and you have to mix it all, according to the authorities) did only three sockets on our boat and cost $35-40. But they are available in virtually every country in the world. But then so is zinc or lead. > > Using metal is rather more exciting than the epoxy. I need to find a smallish heavy iron ladle with with very small but long spout. The one we used had too large a spout and was awkward to control. > > I built a holder for several sockets out of a couple chunks of 2x4. With the pieces clamped together, I drilled holes for 5/16 and 3/8 down the center. Wiggle the drill a bit for the taper of the socket. > > Before we rigged the boat we tested the sockets and wire. Used both zinc and epoxy (the way it smells I'd say it is probably vinylester, really, but couldn't get an answer out of anyone). In six pulls the wire broke well above the wire's rating and always at the tellurid (big nicropress) applied by the testing company and with absolutely no distortion of the sockets (bronze). > > We were using 1x19. A friend who is a traditional boatbuilder and rigger said he didn't like sockets since he lost a rig when the wire just pulled out of the socket, leaving wire sized holes. > > I just so love the look of the poured sockets that we went ahead anyway, but with a twist. > I pulled the 1x19 through the socket and unlayed all the wires, then began in the center bending a 180 degree hook in each wire with the short end toward the center of the bundle. Took about 10 minutes a socket for that. I wish we had tested a socket without any zinc, as the resulting bundle fits tightly and probably wouldn't pull out. Very important to bend the hooks to the center, otherwise you are dealing with 19 independent minds, but if you do, things nest and slide right into place. If you don't unlay and distort the wires slightly, they want to go right back into place, preventing coverage with the zinc or resin. Before pouring, the splayed end was cleaned with 3M universal solvent and a wire brush. > > I suspect that most uses of sockets--industrial rigging, elevators and suspension bridges--use 7x7. In my limited search I didn't find anyone with knowledge of anything else. > > My only reservation about using speltered socket with 1x7 is that the surface area is far less than that of 7x7 or even 1x19. Perhaps the hook treatment might be useful as belts and suspenders approach. > > Brent mentioned risk of lightening melting the resin, but the melting point of lead and zinc is not much higher relative to the temperatures generated by lightening. Just one of those risks. With the hooked basket, even if the filler melted, the wire would probably only settle in the socket, rather than pull out, and leave you with a limp rig. So sad. > > donal > | 21207|21203|2009-09-15 19:11:11|valery19772000|Re: aluminum trimaran in construction.|I estimated the moment created by the wind on the COE on the sail that will be used. I also took in consideration the boyancy of the ama an also the moment created by two guy standing on the opposite ama. I then introduce a safety factor in the equation. Now did I get it right in practice? I will see after I make some real life test. There is also some steel wire going from the bow and the back of the main to the aka connection. This should take care from the front to back stess applied on the main hull aka connection. Hope that this clearify your concern. Now remember that this is a prototype trimaran design by myself. THere is always room for modification along the way. Thank you for your feed back Val --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "svseeker@..." wrote: > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "valery19772000" wrote: > > > > Just uploaded some picture of my project. Might be of interest for somone on this group. This is atrimaran that I am building using riveted aluminum. The bat is not done but I am getting there pretty soon .Hopefully before the winter. > > > > Cool! Thanks for sharing. How do you figure out if the cross members will take the load from the stays and waves? > > Doug J > SubmarineBoat.com > | 21208|21203|2009-09-16 17:12:01|Doug|Re: aluminum trimaran in construction.|Val No, this is not about concern. This is for my edification. When you do that, does it come down to foot/lbs for force on the cross member? With my farmers education, I can normally get in the ball park with that kind of number, but then how do you select the material dimensions? Especially when there are two pieces working together like those on your boat? Yeah the cable makes sense. I know where and what you are talking about, but what is aka and ama? Thanks Doug --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "valery19772000" wrote: > > I estimated the moment created by the wind on the COE on the sail that will be used. I also took in consideration the boyancy of the ama an also the moment created by two guy standing on the opposite ama. I then introduce a safety factor in the equation. Now did I get it right in practice? I will see after I make some real life test. > > There is also some steel wire going from the bow and the back of the main to the aka connection. This should take care from the front to back stess applied on the main hull aka connection. > > Hope that this clearify your concern. > > Now remember that this is a prototype trimaran design by myself. THere is always room for modification along the way. > > Thank you for your feed back > > Val > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "svseeker@" wrote: > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "valery19772000" wrote: > > > > > > Just uploaded some picture of my project. Might be of interest for somone on this group. This is atrimaran that I am building using riveted aluminum. The bat is not done but I am getting there pretty soon .Hopefully before the winter. > > > > > > > Cool! Thanks for sharing. How do you figure out if the cross members will take the load from the stays and waves? > > > > Doug J > > SubmarineBoat.com > > > | 21209|21203|2009-09-16 22:44:15|valery19772000|Re: aluminum trimaran in construction.|Hello Doug Moment = force X distance ( Newton X meter) ( for the US systems (Lbs X foot) . force = mass X acceleration Weight = mass X gravity Be carefull in the US systems Weight = Lbs (force) So it is not (foot/Lbs) but (foot X lbs). Then you use find the Maximum shear due to bending on the cross-member = (Moment X Moment of inertia of the cross-member ) / extreme distance from the neutral axis of the cross-member. Its is not that complicated once you figure out how to do it but there is quite a bit of knowledge to know before someone can understand the formula. Each cross-section a given material have a specific moment of Inertia. The moment of Inertia will govern your cross-sectional shape and thickness. Just so you can get a feeling of what I means. The most optimal shape for a uni-axial load is an I-beam or sometimes it is called H-beam. This is why this shape is used so commonly in construction for floor an roofing. Now when you are working with two pieces we need to find the combine moment of inertia of those two cross-section. And then use those in the equation for maximum shear due to bending equation. Sorry if it is not that precise my explanation I would love to make it more simple but I do not really know how. I think that you can find on the internet some calculator that will do all the calculation for you. Look for Shear due to bending calculator. There is alot of other failure modes but this is the most common type of failure, the material shear due to bending. Hope that this is helpfull for you. Val --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Doug" wrote: > > Val > > No, this is not about concern. This is for my edification. > > When you do that, does it come down to foot/lbs for force on the cross member? With my farmers education, I can normally get in the ball park with that kind of number, but then how do you select the material dimensions? Especially when there are two pieces working together like those on your boat? > > Yeah the cable makes sense. I know where and what you are talking about, but what is aka and ama? > > Thanks > Doug > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "valery19772000" wrote: > > > > I estimated the moment created by the wind on the COE on the sail that will be used. I also took in consideration the boyancy of the ama an also the moment created by two guy standing on the opposite ama. I then introduce a safety factor in the equation. Now did I get it right in practice? I will see after I make some real life test. > > > > There is also some steel wire going from the bow and the back of the main to the aka connection. This should take care from the front to back stess applied on the main hull aka connection. > > > > Hope that this clearify your concern. > > > > Now remember that this is a prototype trimaran design by myself. THere is always room for modification along the way. > > > > Thank you for your feed back > > > > Val > > > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "svseeker@" wrote: > > > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "valery19772000" wrote: > > > > > > > > Just uploaded some picture of my project. Might be of interest for somone on this group. This is atrimaran that I am building using riveted aluminum. The bat is not done but I am getting there pretty soon .Hopefully before the winter. > > > > > > > > > > Cool! Thanks for sharing. How do you figure out if the cross members will take the load from the stays and waves? > > > > > > Doug J > > > SubmarineBoat.com > > > > > > | 21211|21203|2009-09-17 11:07:01|Denis Buggy|Re: aluminum trimaran in construction.|VAL I have spent some time on the metal trimaran project and this is not a criticism merely what I have gleaned from other sources .. your project has been done on a large scale before so do not lose heart at any stage . the nearest aluminum multihull to me is Stena lines HSS catamaran ferry IRELAND --UK. the aluminum trimaran ferry does exist and it is the cutting edge Benhcugia express -- which does the Spain --Canary islands route daily built by Austral of Australia who have just built a yard in the US as the Jones act forbids any purchase of a naval vessel from a country other than the US by the US . you have to be careful as the bending you refer to does not take place with aluminum as it does not do bending very well or at all . also park your aluminum boat and hitch up to a mains socket with faulty earth and you can almost watch your boat dissolve in front of your eyes . welding aluminum is a black art and good-looking welds can be useless when tested . a pro welder will have very different tig welders than amateur for good reason and the use of steel H ( or box section would be better) frames laid out using structural steel cad software in order to bolt the amas to each other and to main hull should not be ruled out as it will be very difficult to do this using aluminium and much cheaper to make a steel chassis and attach a aluminum body to it as per Bristol - rolls Royce -- range rover ect -- all still going strong having proved a engineering principle that steel will bend and flex and remain strong and an aluminum body will give the chassis a holiday compared to steel which will stress it much more . You may get a structural steel engineer to input your figures to the software he uses to make steel portal frame sheds as it will spit out designs correctly sized as per the load you inputted in seconds if you ask it properly and print a lovely 3ft by 3 ft drawing which you can think about and he may do it for free as it would never be built as a building . regards Denis Buggy ----- Original Message ----- From: valery19772000 To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 3:44 AM Subject: [origamiboats] Re: aluminum trimaran in construction. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 21212|21203|2009-09-17 13:32:40|Doug - SubmarineBoat.com|Re: aluminum trimaran in construction.|Thanks Val that does help. Two questions for you, if you'd be so kind to indulge me. #1. I used an on-line calculator to help me decide on an I beam for our gantry cranes: http://www.submarineboat.com/gantry.htm#Gantry It tool from www.engineeringtoolbox.com calculated the deflection for the load, but I could not find anything to tell me the allowable deflection before failure. I only found rules for floors which don't allow for much deflection at all. #2. I tried finding other calculators for things like pipe and angle, but without much success. Do you, or anyone else here, know of some that are intuitive? --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "valery19772000" wrote: > > Hello Doug > > Moment = force X distance ( Newton X meter) ( for the US systems (Lbs X foot) . > > force = mass X acceleration > Weight = mass X gravity > > Be carefull in the US systems > Weight = Lbs (force) > > So it is not (foot/Lbs) but (foot X lbs). > > Then you use find the > > Maximum shear due to bending on the cross-member = (Moment X Moment of inertia of the cross-member ) / extreme distance from the neutral axis of the cross-member. > > Its is not that complicated once you figure out how to do it but there is quite a bit of knowledge to know before someone can understand the formula. > > Each cross-section a given material have a specific moment of Inertia. The moment of Inertia will govern your cross-sectional shape and thickness. > > Just so you can get a feeling of what I means. The most optimal shape for a uni-axial load is an I-beam or sometimes it is called H-beam. This is why this shape is used so commonly in construction for floor an roofing. > > Now when you are working with two pieces we need to find the combine moment of inertia of those two cross-section. And then use those in the equation for maximum shear due to bending equation. > > Sorry if it is not that precise my explanation I would love to make it more simple but I do not really know how. > > I think that you can find on the internet some calculator that will do all the calculation for you. Look for Shear due to bending calculator. > > There is alot of other failure modes but this is the most common type of failure, the material shear due to bending. > > Hope that this is helpfull for you. > > Val > > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Doug" wrote: > > > > Val > > > > No, this is not about concern. This is for my edification. > > > > When you do that, does it come down to foot/lbs for force on the cross member? With my farmers education, I can normally get in the ball park with that kind of number, but then how do you select the material dimensions? Especially when there are two pieces working together like those on your boat? > > > > Yeah the cable makes sense. I know where and what you are talking about, but what is aka and ama? > > > > Thanks > > Doug > > > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "valery19772000" wrote: > > > > > > I estimated the moment created by the wind on the COE on the sail that will be used. I also took in consideration the boyancy of the ama an also the moment created by two guy standing on the opposite ama. I then introduce a safety factor in the equation. Now did I get it right in practice? I will see after I make some real life test. > > > > > > There is also some steel wire going from the bow and the back of the main to the aka connection. This should take care from the front to back stess applied on the main hull aka connection. > > > > > > Hope that this clearify your concern. > > > > > > Now remember that this is a prototype trimaran design by myself. THere is always room for modification along the way. > > > > > > Thank you for your feed back > > > > > > Val > > > > > > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "svseeker@" wrote: > > > > > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "valery19772000" wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Just uploaded some picture of my project. Might be of interest for somone on this group. This is atrimaran that I am building using riveted aluminum. The bat is not done but I am getting there pretty soon .Hopefully before the winter. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Cool! Thanks for sharing. How do you figure out if the cross members will take the load from the stays and waves? > > > > > > > > Doug J > > > > SubmarineBoat.com > > > > > > > > > > | 21213|21203|2009-09-17 14:44:03|Doug - SubmarineBoat.com|Re: aluminum trimaran in construction.|Denis "welding aluminum is a black art" --Naaah it ain't! Not if I can do it. I had a good deal of advice before getting it right but MIG welding aluminum 1/8" and up is no longer a black art. Here is what I learned: www.submarineboat.com/welding_aluminum.htm This is the best part: "To get spray arc you need to turn the voltage up, and the wire speed too as you increase the voltage. Keep turning up the voltage and the wire speed until you hear the dramatic change in the sound of the weld, then just a little more so that it is welding smoothly that way. I think you are going to be amazed at just how far you need to turn up the voltage to get this happen." -- Gary Lucas Boy howdy, was he right on. I weld aluminum with the power and wire speed cranked to the limit; even on 1/8". And weld you do, like the wind. Stop for a second, and you'll burn clean through. Best of Luck Doug SubmarineBoat.com| 21214|21203|2009-09-17 17:12:09|valery19772000|Re: aluminum trimaran in construction.|I think I understand what you are talking about. First my trimaran is not welded, my trimaran is riveted, exactly like a plane. This way I do not affect the properties of the aluminum with the heating at weld joint. Second the bending I am talking about is the shear due to bending under a certain load. I also included in my equation, not explained in the email, a safety factor due to fatigue, aluminum will always failed after a number of cycle. So I am not sure what you are refering to, are you trying to say that steel is better? val --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Denis Buggy" wrote: > > VAL > > I have spent some time on the metal trimaran project and this is not a criticism merely what I have gleaned from other sources .. > > your project has been done on a large scale before so do not lose heart at any stage . > the nearest aluminum multihull to me is Stena lines HSS catamaran ferry IRELAND --UK. > the aluminum trimaran ferry does exist and it is the cutting edge Benhcugia express -- which does the Spain --Canary islands route daily built by Austral of Australia > who have just built a yard in the US as the Jones act forbids any purchase of a naval vessel from a country other than the US by the US . > you have to be careful as the bending you refer to does not take place with aluminum as it does not do bending very well or at all . > also park your aluminum boat and hitch up to a mains socket with faulty earth and you can almost watch your boat dissolve in front of your eyes . > welding aluminum is a black art and good-looking welds can be useless when tested . a pro welder will have very different tig welders than amateur for good reason and the use of steel H ( or box section would be better) frames laid out using structural steel cad software in order to bolt the amas to each other and to main hull should not be ruled out as it will be very difficult to do this using aluminium and much cheaper to make a steel chassis and attach a aluminum body to it as per Bristol - rolls Royce -- range rover ect -- all still going strong having proved a engineering principle that steel will bend and flex and remain strong and an aluminum body will give the chassis a holiday compared to steel which will stress it much more . > You may get a structural steel engineer to input your figures to the software he uses to make steel portal frame sheds as it will spit out designs correctly sized as per the load you inputted in seconds if you ask it properly and print a lovely 3ft by 3 ft drawing which you can think about and he may do it for free as it would never be built as a building . regards Denis Buggy > ----- Original Message ----- > From: valery19772000 > To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 3:44 AM > Subject: [origamiboats] Re: aluminum trimaran in construction. > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > | 21215|21203|2009-09-17 17:19:27|valery19772000|Re: aluminum trimaran in construction.|The best suggestion I could tell you is to try to get a 3d cad software. Example Inventors, solidworks or maybe even proengineer. I personnally like Inventors made by autodesk. If you know how to draw on autocad you should be able to quickly pick it up.You can for sure on the web find some Unothorized copy. In those software most of them have a part that is called ''finite analysis''. This will allow you to model the deflection, stress, strain, etc.... You can also I think find some tutorial online. Val --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Doug - SubmarineBoat.com" wrote: > > Thanks Val that does help. > > Two questions for you, if you'd be so kind to indulge me. > > #1. I used an on-line calculator to help me decide on an I beam for our gantry cranes: http://www.submarineboat.com/gantry.htm#Gantry > It tool from www.engineeringtoolbox.com calculated the deflection for the load, but I could not find anything to tell me the allowable deflection before failure. I only found rules for floors which don't allow for much deflection at all. > > #2. I tried finding other calculators for things like pipe and angle, but without much success. Do you, or anyone else here, know of some that are intuitive? > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "valery19772000" wrote: > > > > Hello Doug > > > > Moment = force X distance ( Newton X meter) ( for the US systems (Lbs X foot) . > > > > force = mass X acceleration > > Weight = mass X gravity > > > > Be carefull in the US systems > > Weight = Lbs (force) > > > > So it is not (foot/Lbs) but (foot X lbs). > > > > Then you use find the > > > > Maximum shear due to bending on the cross-member = (Moment X Moment of inertia of the cross-member ) / extreme distance from the neutral axis of the cross-member. > > > > Its is not that complicated once you figure out how to do it but there is quite a bit of knowledge to know before someone can understand the formula. > > > > Each cross-section a given material have a specific moment of Inertia. The moment of Inertia will govern your cross-sectional shape and thickness. > > > > Just so you can get a feeling of what I means. The most optimal shape for a uni-axial load is an I-beam or sometimes it is called H-beam. This is why this shape is used so commonly in construction for floor an roofing. > > > > Now when you are working with two pieces we need to find the combine moment of inertia of those two cross-section. And then use those in the equation for maximum shear due to bending equation. > > > > Sorry if it is not that precise my explanation I would love to make it more simple but I do not really know how. > > > > I think that you can find on the internet some calculator that will do all the calculation for you. Look for Shear due to bending calculator. > > > > There is alot of other failure modes but this is the most common type of failure, the material shear due to bending. > > > > Hope that this is helpfull for you. > > > > Val > > > > > > > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Doug" wrote: > > > > > > Val > > > > > > No, this is not about concern. This is for my edification. > > > > > > When you do that, does it come down to foot/lbs for force on the cross member? With my farmers education, I can normally get in the ball park with that kind of number, but then how do you select the material dimensions? Especially when there are two pieces working together like those on your boat? > > > > > > Yeah the cable makes sense. I know where and what you are talking about, but what is aka and ama? > > > > > > Thanks > > > Doug > > > > > > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "valery19772000" wrote: > > > > > > > > I estimated the moment created by the wind on the COE on the sail that will be used. I also took in consideration the boyancy of the ama an also the moment created by two guy standing on the opposite ama. I then introduce a safety factor in the equation. Now did I get it right in practice? I will see after I make some real life test. > > > > > > > > There is also some steel wire going from the bow and the back of the main to the aka connection. This should take care from the front to back stess applied on the main hull aka connection. > > > > > > > > Hope that this clearify your concern. > > > > > > > > Now remember that this is a prototype trimaran design by myself. THere is always room for modification along the way. > > > > > > > > Thank you for your feed back > > > > > > > > Val > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "svseeker@" wrote: > > > > > > > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "valery19772000" wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Just uploaded some picture of my project. Might be of interest for somone on this group. This is atrimaran that I am building using riveted aluminum. The bat is not done but I am getting there pretty soon .Hopefully before the winter. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Cool! Thanks for sharing. How do you figure out if the cross members will take the load from the stays and waves? > > > > > > > > > > Doug J > > > > > SubmarineBoat.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > | 21216|21203|2009-09-17 18:08:58|Denis Buggy|Re: aluminum trimaran in construction.|Dear Val there is no quick answer to which is better you have to include time-- cost-- weight -- desired waterline to minimise wetted area and to comply with your hull design as steel may make it a submarine--- if your hull design says it must be a aluminium boat . HOWEVER AND A BIG HOWEVER it is crucial you get the ama situation under control as to give you an example the famous catamaran designer James Wharram always tied the amas to the hulls with rope because the clever Polynesians did it for thousands of years with palm leaves because the rope would flex and give a good deal without the boat coming apart as the forces on the whole design -structure are from 20 or more areas at the same time as each hull wants to go its own way the weight and mast want to go theirs the waves theirs the rudder on one hull and missing from the other two I could type all night but in short the boats are a success because they like all very strong structures bend and give instead of breaking up into little pieces . your riveted structure is a great idea and has been proven over half a century to give great service and can be used to form your hulls and superstructure however a high spec multihull will generally have a carbon fibre lattice structure and this is covered with bonded panels of grp or aluminium if your budget does not stretch to spinning your own carbon structures then the only available structure which will do the business if tormented from 20 directions at the same time is steel and it is easily welded drilled and tapped and will not crush under bolt tightening nor slowly shrink as aluminium will do under compressed load . all the Boing aircraft we fly in have riveted and bonded skins however the chassis / framing is not riveted together this you have to deal with as it will not hold together if you want aluminium to be the flexing structure , hopefully this helps regards Denis ----- Original Message ----- From: valery19772000 To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 10:11 PM Subject: [origamiboats] Re: aluminum trimaran in construction. I think I understand what you are talking about. First my trimaran is not welded, my trimaran is riveted, exactly like a plane. This way I do not affect the properties of the aluminum with the heating at weld joint. Second the bending I am talking about is the shear due to bending under a certain load. I also included in my equation, not explained in the email, a safety factor due to fatigue, aluminum will always failed after a number of cycle. So I am not sure what you are refering to, are you trying to say that steel is better? val --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Denis Buggy" wrote: > > VAL > > I have spent some time on the metal trimaran project and this is not a criticism merely what I have gleaned from other sources .. > > your project has been done on a large scale before so do not lose heart at any stage . > the nearest aluminum multihull to me is Stena lines HSS catamaran ferry IRELAND --UK. > the aluminum trimaran ferry does exist and it is the cutting edge Benhcugia express -- which does the Spain --Canary islands route daily built by Austral of Australia > who have just built a yard in the US as the Jones act forbids any purchase of a naval vessel from a country other than the US by the US . > you have to be careful as the bending you refer to does not take place with aluminum as it does not do bending very well or at all . > also park your aluminum boat and hitch up to a mains socket with faulty earth and you can almost watch your boat dissolve in front of your eyes . > welding aluminum is a black art and good-looking welds can be useless when tested . a pro welder will have very different tig welders than amateur for good reason and the use of steel H ( or box section would be better) frames laid out using structural steel cad software in order to bolt the amas to each other and to main hull should not be ruled out as it will be very difficult to do this using aluminium and much cheaper to make a steel chassis and attach a aluminum body to it as per Bristol - rolls Royce -- range rover ect -- all still going strong having proved a engineering principle that steel will bend and flex and remain strong and an aluminum body will give the chassis a holiday compared to steel which will stress it much more . > You may get a structural steel engineer to input your figures to the software he uses to make steel portal frame sheds as it will spit out designs correctly sized as per the load you inputted in seconds if you ask it properly and print a lovely 3ft by 3 ft drawing which you can think about and he may do it for free as it would never be built as a building . regards Denis Buggy > ----- Original Message ----- > From: valery19772000 > To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 3:44 AM > Subject: [origamiboats] Re: aluminum trimaran in construction. > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 21217|21203|2009-09-18 08:01:23|valery19772000|Re: aluminum trimaran in construction.|My design does not allow to use steel. Like you said it would become a submarine. All the cross member inside my hull are glued dow extruded polystyrene. Polystyre has incredible compressive strenght but very week tensile strenght. This will allow for some flex to be allow in the hull. Aluminum has very good tensile strenght and the polystyrene is used to keep the shape of the hull stiff while limiting the amount of weight. You are right every material has it strenght and weaknesses. I am not affraid of the weaknesses of aluminum and I think that I took all those parameter in consideration in my design. But there is always room for mistake!!! but I think I got it right, well hopefully. I will let you know the result once I put it in the water. Val --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Denis Buggy" wrote: > > Dear Val > there is no quick answer to which is better you have to include time-- cost-- weight -- desired waterline to minimise wetted area and to comply with your hull design as steel may make it a submarine--- if your hull design says it must be a aluminium boat . > HOWEVER AND A BIG HOWEVER it is crucial you get the ama situation under control as to give you an example the famous catamaran designer James Wharram always tied the amas to the hulls with rope because the clever Polynesians did it for thousands of years with palm leaves because the rope would flex and give a good deal without the boat coming apart as the forces on the whole design -structure are from 20 or more areas at the same time as each hull wants to go its own way the weight and mast want to go theirs the waves theirs the rudder on one hull and missing from the other two I could type all night but in short the boats are a success because they like all very strong structures bend and give instead of breaking up into little pieces . > your riveted structure is a great idea and has been proven over half a century to give great service and can be used to form your hulls and superstructure however a high spec multihull will generally have a carbon fibre lattice structure and this is covered with bonded panels of grp or aluminium if your budget does not stretch to spinning your own carbon structures then the only available structure which will do the business if tormented from 20 directions at the same time is steel and it is easily welded drilled and tapped and will not crush under bolt tightening nor slowly shrink as aluminium will do under compressed load . > all the Boing aircraft we fly in have riveted and bonded skins however the chassis / framing is not riveted together this you have to deal with as it will not hold together if you want aluminium to be the flexing structure , hopefully this helps regards Denis > ----- Original Message ----- > From: valery19772000 > To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 10:11 PM > Subject: [origamiboats] Re: aluminum trimaran in construction. > > > I think I understand what you are talking about. > > First my trimaran is not welded, my trimaran is riveted, exactly like a plane. This way I do not affect the properties of the aluminum with the heating at weld joint. Second the bending I am talking about is the shear due to bending under a certain load. I also included in my equation, not explained in the email, a safety factor due to fatigue, aluminum will always failed after a number of cycle. > > So I am not sure what you are refering to, are you trying to say that steel is better? > > val > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Denis Buggy" wrote: > > > > VAL > > > > I have spent some time on the metal trimaran project and this is not a criticism merely what I have gleaned from other sources .. > > > > your project has been done on a large scale before so do not lose heart at any stage . > > the nearest aluminum multihull to me is Stena lines HSS catamaran ferry IRELAND --UK. > > the aluminum trimaran ferry does exist and it is the cutting edge Benhcugia express -- which does the Spain --Canary islands route daily built by Austral of Australia > > who have just built a yard in the US as the Jones act forbids any purchase of a naval vessel from a country other than the US by the US . > > you have to be careful as the bending you refer to does not take place with aluminum as it does not do bending very well or at all . > > also park your aluminum boat and hitch up to a mains socket with faulty earth and you can almost watch your boat dissolve in front of your eyes . > > welding aluminum is a black art and good-looking welds can be useless when tested . a pro welder will have very different tig welders than amateur for good reason and the use of steel H ( or box section would be better) frames laid out using structural steel cad software in order to bolt the amas to each other and to main hull should not be ruled out as it will be very difficult to do this using aluminium and much cheaper to make a steel chassis and attach a aluminum body to it as per Bristol - rolls Royce -- range rover ect -- all still going strong having proved a engineering principle that steel will bend and flex and remain strong and an aluminum body will give the chassis a holiday compared to steel which will stress it much more . > > You may get a structural steel engineer to input your figures to the software he uses to make steel portal frame sheds as it will spit out designs correctly sized as per the load you inputted in seconds if you ask it properly and print a lovely 3ft by 3 ft drawing which you can think about and he may do it for free as it would never be built as a building . regards Denis Buggy > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: valery19772000 > > To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 3:44 AM > > Subject: [origamiboats] Re: aluminum trimaran in construction. > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > | 21218|21203|2009-09-18 15:12:49|Denis Buggy|Re: aluminum trimaran in construction.|dear Val the following may be a good or bad idea if you can beg or borrow a large amount of rachet nylon haulage /truck load restraints and make your cross members and find two grp sailboats 100% bigger than your two outer hulls and strap the hulls with nylon webbing as per James Wharrams cross members and take the contraption for a spin in some chop and observe the results it may tell you something without costing you anything . your frames should be able to handle 100% more than your hulls requirements for a safety margin as it may get trashed in some bad weather and must be able to handle it regards Denis ----- Original Message ----- From: valery19772000 To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, September 18, 2009 1:01 PM Subject: [origamiboats] Re: aluminum trimaran in construction. My design does not allow to use steel. Like you said it would become a submarine. All the cross member inside my hull are glued dow extruded polystyrene. Polystyre has incredible compressive strenght but very week tensile strenght. This will allow for some flex to be allow in the hull. Aluminum has very good tensile strenght and the polystyrene is used to keep the shape of the hull stiff while limiting the amount of weight. You are right every material has it strenght and weaknesses. I am not affraid of the weaknesses of aluminum --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Denis Buggy" wrote: > > Dear Val > there is no quick answer to which is better you have to include time-- cost-- weight -- desired waterline to minimise wetted area and to comply with your hull design as steel may make it a submarine--- if your hull design says it must be a aluminium boat . > HOWEVER AND A BIG HOWEVER it is crucial you get the ama situation under control as to give you an example the famous catamaran designer James Wharram always tied the amas to the hulls with rope because the clever Polynesians did it for thousands of years with palm leaves because the rope would flex and give a good deal without the boat coming apart as the forces on the whole design -structure are from 20 or more areas at the same time as each hull wants to go its own way the weight and mast want to go theirs the waves theirs the rudder on one hull and missing from the other two I could type all night but in short the boats are a success because they like all very strong structures bend and give instead of breaking up into little pieces . > your riveted structure is a great idea and has been proven over half a century to give great service and can be used to form your hulls and superstructure however a high spec multihull will generally have a carbon fibre lattice structure and this is covered with bonded panels of grp or aluminium if your budget does not stretch to spinning your own carbon structures then the only available structure which will do the business if tormented from 20 directions at the same time is steel and it is easily welded drilled and tapped and will not crush under bolt tightening nor slowly shrink as aluminium will do under compressed load . > all the Boing aircraft we fly in have riveted and bonded skins however the chassis / framing is not riveted together this you have to deal with as it will not hold together if you want aluminium to be the Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required) Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch format to Traditional Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe Recent Activity a.. 4New Members b.. 7New Files Visit Your Group Yahoo! News Fashion News What's the word on fashion and style? Yahoo! Finance It's Now Personal Guides, news, advice & more. Yahoo! Groups Mental Health Zone Learn about issues Find support . [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 21219|21219|2009-09-18 18:57:23|Log Cabin|Liveaboard...|Looking for a liveaboard tie up Ladysmith to Qualicum as I am working for maybe 6 months on the island. Nanaimo appears to be really f'd for that. The newest joke is a new marina in Departure Bay starting at $10 per foot and no liveaboard. thanks Gary| 21220|21220|2009-09-18 19:09:16|Jay K. Jeffries|Visiting Vancouver, B.C. beginning of October|I will be visiting Vancouver, BC from September 29th through October 4th to present a paper on submersible design and attend the annual PSUB (Personal Submersibles) Conference. Any suggestions on where to eat and what to visit as a tourist? Paper will be given at the Maritime Museum, will have a tour of Phil Nuytten's submersible facility in North Vancouver (and get to operate one of his DeepWorker subs! J), and visits to grouse Mountain and the Capilano Suspension Bridge are already planned. Any suggestions would be appreciated. R/Jay Resepectfully, Jay K. Jeffries Andros Is., Bahamas Save the whales, collect the whole set. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]| 21221|21220|2009-09-18 21:17:32|Keith Green|Re: Visiting Vancouver, B.C. beginning of October|Depends... what are your interests and tastes? We've got a lot of ethnicity here and way too many things to see and do in a week. Grouse is nice and a perfect photo-op if the weather cooperates, maybe not so much if overcast. There is another maritime historic site in old Steveston (Brittania Shipyards) that's not bad if it's raining. Mostly old and/or restored wooden working boats from local builders. Keith Green Surrey, BC Jay K. Jeffries wrote: > I will be visiting Vancouver, BC from September 29th through October 4th to > present a paper on submersible design and attend the annual PSUB (Personal > Submersibles) Conference. Any suggestions on where to eat and what to visit > as a tourist? Paper will be given at the Maritime Museum, will have a tour > of Phil Nuytten's submersible facility in North Vancouver (and get to > operate one of his DeepWorker subs! J), and visits to grouse Mountain and > the Capilano Suspension Bridge are already planned. Any suggestions would > be appreciated. > > R/Jay > > > > > > Resepectfully, > > Jay K. Jeffries > > Andros Is., Bahamas > > > > Save the whales, collect the whole set. > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.comYahoo! Groups Links > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.409 / Virus Database: 270.13.105/2380 - Release Date: 09/18/09 07:49:00 > > | 21222|21220|2009-09-18 22:45:34|Jay K. Jeffries|Re: Visiting Vancouver, B.C. beginning of October|Keith, Thanks for your reply. Steveston sounds interesting for a visit. Grouse Mountain was an option if there wasn't anything else of interest. Currently studying naval architecture so anything of a nautical nature would be good. R/Jay From: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com [mailto:origamiboats@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Keith Green Sent: Friday, September 18, 2009 9:17 PM To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [origamiboats] Visiting Vancouver, B.C. beginning of October Depends... what are your interests and tastes? We've got a lot of ethnicity here and way too many things to see and do in a week. Grouse is nice and a perfect photo-op if the weather cooperates, maybe not so much if overcast. There is another maritime historic site in old Steveston (Brittania Shipyards) that's not bad if it's raining. Mostly old and/or restored wooden working boats from local builders. Keith Green Surrey, BC Jay K. Jeffries wrote: > I will be visiting Vancouver, BC from September 29th through October 4th to > present a paper on submersible design and attend the annual PSUB (Personal > Submersibles) Conference. Any suggestions on where to eat and what to visit > as a tourist? Paper will be given at the Maritime Museum, will have a tour > of Phil Nuytten's submersible facility in North Vancouver (and get to > operate one of his DeepWorker subs! J), and visits to grouse Mountain and > the Capilano Suspension Bridge are already planned. Any suggestions would > be appreciated. > > R/Jay > > > > > > Resepectfully, > > Jay K. Jeffries > > Andros Is., Bahamas > > > > Save the whales, collect the whole set. > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.comYahoo ! Groups Links > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.409 / Virus Database: 270.13.105/2380 - Release Date: 09/18/09 07:49:00 > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]| 21223|21220|2009-09-18 23:42:29|mickeyolaf|Re: Visiting Vancouver, B.C. beginning of October|Enjoy your visit. But a word to the wise. Vancouver has about 15,000 addicts who support their habits doing theft from autos, B & E's etc. Cap Bridge, Stanley Park, Grouse Mountain and any place tourists frequent are the worst hit. Crack heads have just enough brain cells left to know tourists have luggage in their trunks. Tourists also tend to put valuables under seats to hide stuff they don't want to carry. Tourists think their stuff in the trunk is safe. Cap Bridge has parking lot cameras. But all they will show is an idiot in a hoody breaking your car's window. Don't leave anything in your car anywhere in Vancouver including the trunk!!!!!! --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Jay K. Jeffries" wrote: > > I will be visiting Vancouver, BC from September 29th through October 4th to > present a paper on submersible design and attend the annual PSUB (Personal > Submersibles) Conference. Any suggestions on where to eat and what to visit > as a tourist? Paper will be given at the Maritime Museum, will have a tour > of Phil Nuytten's submersible facility in North Vancouver (and get to > operate one of his DeepWorker subs! J), and visits to grouse Mountain and > the Capilano Suspension Bridge are already planned. Any suggestions would > be appreciated. > > R/Jay > > > > > > Resepectfully, > > Jay K. Jeffries > > Andros Is., Bahamas > > > > Save the whales, collect the whole set. > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > | 21224|21220|2009-09-19 00:48:00|Keith Green|Visiting Vancouver, B.C. beginning of October|Living here, I'm not much for the tourist stuff. I'm sure you understand :). How's your budget? Some of the restaurants that are landmarks here can run you $1500 a meal. Otherwise, you can have just about any cuisine you could name here. I've had Indian (lots of it in my neighbourhood), various renditions of Chinese, cheap and relatively expensive sushi (both good and bad), Ethiopian, Mexican, Equadorian, Iranian, Afghan, Turkish, Brazilian/Argentinian, Korean, and a few others. There are a few fusion places that blend one or more of these, too. Given a day or two, you can make the trip to Vancouver Island and the provincial capital of Victoria. Architectural attractions, a few museums, historic sites, etc. Pretty sure you'll see some ships over there, too. Sorry. Not much of a tour guide I guess. Try Googling for Tourism Vancouver and then ask me about stuff you might be interested in from there. Keep in mind that you're heading in to the rainy season here and it can be pretty wet. If rain gets you down, plan for indoor attractions. If not, bring a dry warm coat and good boots. Myself, I enjoy the rain; especially out in the forest. You don't get rained on as much under the canopy (unless it's really coming down) and the experience can be pretty 'deep', if you know what I mean. Fresh, tree-scented air laden with moisture, huge trees and the sound of the rain and the occasional raven. I went with a friend today out to a 70 acre resort (of sorts) where his parents are caretakers. A few well-appointed cabins (small pre-fab houses with all the conveniences) on the ocean with mainly boat-access only. I think he said the rates are about $100 a night which i found to be phenominal, if true. Spent the day with his parents just talking, having a few beers, fishing with rods and crab traps off the dock. Went for a short boat ride at the end. Nice place. Like I said; do some online investigation and then check back. I can investigate a bit for you on this end. Got some friends that will probably know if I don't. Try to formulate some kind of timetable and hope for good weather, be prepared for rain. Keith Jay K. Jeffries wrote: > Keith, > > Thanks for your reply. Steveston sounds interesting for a visit. Grouse > Mountain was an option if there wasn't anything else of interest. Currently > studying naval architecture so anything of a nautical nature would be good. > > R/Jay > > > > From: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com [mailto:origamiboats@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Keith Green > Sent: Friday, September 18, 2009 9:17 PM > To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [origamiboats] Visiting Vancouver, B.C. beginning of October > > > > > > > Depends... what are your interests and tastes? We've got a lot of > ethnicity here and way too many things to see and do in a week. Grouse > is nice and a perfect photo-op if the weather cooperates, maybe not so > much if overcast. There is another maritime historic site in old > Steveston (Brittania Shipyards) that's not bad if it's raining. Mostly > old and/or restored wooden working boats from local builders. > > Keith Green > > > > Surrey, BC > > Jay K. Jeffries wrote: > >> I will be visiting Vancouver, BC from September 29th through October 4th >> > to > >> present a paper on submersible design and attend the annual PSUB (Personal >> Submersibles) Conference. Any suggestions on where to eat and what to >> > visit > >> as a tourist? Paper will be given at the Maritime Museum, will have a tour >> of Phil Nuytten's submersible facility in North Vancouver (and get to >> operate one of his DeepWorker subs! J), and visits to grouse Mountain and >> the Capilano Suspension Bridge are already planned. Any suggestions would >> be appreciated. >> >> R/Jay >> >> >> >> >> >> Resepectfully, >> >> Jay K. Jeffries >> >> Andros Is., Bahamas >> >> >> >> Save the whales, collect the whole set. >> >> >> >> >> >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >> >> >> >> ------------------------------------ >> >> To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com >> > > >> To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: >> > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.comYahoo > ! Groups Links > >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> Version: 8.5.409 / Virus Database: 270.13.105/2380 - Release Date: >> > 09/18/09 07:49:00 > >> > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.comYahoo! Groups Links > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.409 / Virus Database: 270.13.106/2381 - Release Date: 09/18/09 18:14:00 > > | 21226|21219|2009-09-19 08:36:10|audeojude|Re: Liveaboard...|Welcome to the east coast of the US.. this is the typical mid low rate for a non livaboard slip here. sadly within a few years it will be your normal rate as well. There are always more people but there is no more land or water frontage so it is a scarce resource that will get pricier the scarcer it gets. Wait till they start buying up working marinas and turning the land into condos and the slips into private slips that only the owners are allowed to use. no renting them out. That has happened to probably half the marinas on the east coast so far. scott --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Log Cabin" wrote: > > Looking for a liveaboard tie up Ladysmith to Qualicum as I am working for maybe 6 months on the island. Nanaimo appears to be really f'd for that. The newest joke is a new marina in Departure Bay starting at $10 per foot and no liveaboard. > > thanks > Gary > | 21227|21220|2009-09-19 11:06:45|mark hamill|Re: Visiting Vancouver, B.C. beginning of October|As a former bus driver in Vancouver the advice about theft is something I would constantly give--stay away from Hastings and Main but Chinatown which borders this area is worth a visist as are the Sun Yat Sen Gardens. The vancouver Aquarium in Stanley Park, The Stanley Park Totem display, Museum of Anthropology at UBC (nW coast native art), Gulf of Georgia Cannery in Steveston (richmond) Granville Island, English Bay, Jericho Beach, rent a bike and cycle around Stanley Park myou can take the sky train from downtown to Richmond and the airport now ----- Original Message ----- From: mickeyolaf To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, September 18, 2009 8:42 PM Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Visiting Vancouver, B.C. beginning of October Enjoy your visit. But a word to the wise. Vancouver has about 15,000 addicts who support their habits doing theft from autos, B & E's etc. Cap Bridge, Stanley Park, Grouse Mountain and any place tourists frequent are the worst hit. Crack heads have just enough brain cells left to know tourists have luggage in their trunks. Tourists also tend to put valuables under seats to hide stuff they don't want to carry. Tourists think their stuff in the trunk is safe. Cap Bridge has parking lot cameras. But all they will show is an idiot in a hoody breaking your car's window. Don't leave anything in your car anywhere in Vancouver including the trunk!!!!!! --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Jay K. Jeffries" wrote: > > I will be visiting Vancouver, BC from September 29th through October 4th to > present a paper on submersible design and attend the annual PSUB (Personal > Submersibles) Conference. Any suggestions on where to eat and what to visit > as a tourist? Paper will be given at the Maritime Museum, will have a tour > of Phil Nuytten's submersible facility in North Vancouver (and get to > operate one of his DeepWorker subs! J), and visits to grouse Mountain and > the Capilano Suspension Bridge are already planned. Any suggestions would > be appreciated. > > R/Jay > > > > > > Resepectfully, > > Jay K. Jeffries > > Andros Is., Bahamas > > > > Save the whales, collect the whole set. > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 21228|21219|2009-09-19 23:24:53|brentswain38|Re: Liveaboard...|The ladysmith maritime society is probably a good bet. There is also good anchorage there. Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Log Cabin" wrote: > > Looking for a liveaboard tie up Ladysmith to Qualicum as I am working for maybe 6 months on the island. Nanaimo appears to be really f'd for that. The newest joke is a new marina in Departure Bay starting at $10 per foot and no liveaboard. > > thanks > Gary > | 21229|21229|2009-09-20 19:13:45|cptcrunch100|Hey everbody here's a new steel boat for sale|Here is my link to the Vancouver Craiglist add for Steel Boat. It is not a Brent Boat but it has all the Brent Bits. I've got 10 ft itiss again... sale-erynq-1384112122@...| 21230|22|2009-09-21 13:31:22|origamiboats@yahoogroups.com|New file uploaded to origamiboats |Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the origamiboats group. File : /Imagiro Boats./229AAELEV-SR19-09.JPG Uploaded by : yvesmariedetanton Description : 229. New pilothouse design for the 39. You can access this file at the URL: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/files/Imagiro%20Boats./229AAELEV-SR19-09.JPG To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit: http://help.yahoo.com/l/us/yahoo/groups/original/general.htmlfiles Regards, yvesmariedetanton | 21233|21233|2009-09-22 05:46:59|kingsknight4life|Alex stop the spammers PLEASE (No Mesage)|| 21234|21233|2009-09-22 06:47:34|jpronk1|Re: Alex stop the spammers PLEASE (Message)|Are you saying that you don't want 30 boxes of oreo cookies! Lets be honest, who doesn't like Oreo's, The filling is icing suger and lard or it was up to about 10 years ago. How is the boat coming? have you found one or are you going to build? I,ve see you on the wylo page. They have some good ideas, I tried the bread baking in my single burner stove on my boat and it worked great. Who wants oreo's when you can make fresh bread! James| 21235|21233|2009-09-23 04:13:49|kingsknight4life|Re: Alex stop the spammers PLEASE (Message)|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "jpronk1" wrote: > > Are you saying that you don't want 30 boxes of oreo cookies! > Lets be honest, who doesn't like Oreo's, The filling is icing suger and lard or it was up to about 10 years ago. > How is the boat coming? have you found one or are you going to build? I,ve see you on the wylo page. They have some good ideas, I tried the bread baking in my single burner stove on my boat and it worked great. > Who wants oreo's when you can make fresh bread! > James > Hi James Yes, Bev and I have found another "boat", the pics of our new hull is in the photos section. I do frequent the Wylo group as well, as they seem to share this groups no nonsense and pragmatic approach to sailing/boat building. I also really like the look of the gaff rigs. :) Rowland| 21236|21233|2009-09-23 07:01:22|jpronk1|Re: Alex stop the spammers PLEASE (Message)|Hello Rowland I found the photos of Bev's and your new boat, it looks great! I see it has a lot of detail work done on deck. Have you been able to do much work to it, how is it coming? James --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "kingsknight4life" wrote: > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "jpronk1" wrote: > > > > Are you saying that you don't want 30 boxes of oreo cookies! > > Lets be honest, who doesn't like Oreo's, The filling is icing suger and lard or it was up to about 10 years ago. > > How is the boat coming? have you found one or are you going to build? I,ve see you on the wylo page. They have some good ideas, I tried the bread baking in my single burner stove on my boat and it worked great. > > Who wants oreo's when you can make fresh bread! > > James > > > Hi James > > Yes, Bev and I have found another "boat", the pics of our new hull is in the photos section. I do frequent the Wylo group as well, as they seem to share this groups no nonsense and pragmatic approach to sailing/boat building. I also really like the look of the gaff rigs. :) > Rowland > | 21237|21203|2009-09-23 11:37:54|sunbear|Watermaker|FYI there is a 25 GPH watermaker for sale in Comox for $1500--good price?? http://comoxvalley.en.craigslist.ca/boa/1385939563.html| 21238|21233|2009-09-23 18:15:25|brentswain38|Re: Alex stop the spammers PLEASE (No Mesage)|I've been baning and deleting these pricks , but they keep coming back under a new ID. Been away from computers for a few days, but will keep up the effort. Brent| 21239|21203|2009-09-23 18:22:36|brentswain38|Re: Watermaker|Yes that is a good price. You could do an engine driven one for roughly $1,000, but how much do you value the time you spend running around for and making up parts and how big a hurry are you in? Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "sunbear" wrote: > > FYI there is a 25 GPH watermaker for sale in Comox for $1500--good price?? http://comoxvalley.en.craigslist.ca/boa/1385939563.html > | 21240|21233|2009-09-23 20:31:50|David Frantz|Re: Alex stop the spammers PLEASE (No Mesage)|There seems to be no end to these guys. Unfortunately I can't offer up any legal solutions. David A Frantz websterindustro@... Sent from my iPhone. On Sep 23, 2009, at 6:15 PM, brentswain38 wrote: > I've been baning and deleting these pricks , but they keep coming > back under a new ID. Been away from computers for a few days, but > will keep up the effort. > Brent > > > > ------------------------------------ > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.comYahoo > ! Groups Links > > > | 21241|21233|2009-09-23 21:38:45|Ben Okopnik|Re: Alex stop the spammers PLEASE (No Mesage)|On Wed, Sep 23, 2009 at 08:27:22PM -0400, David Frantz wrote: > There seems to be no end to these guys. Unfortunately I can't offer > up any legal solutions. There aren't any legal solutions: spammers operate anonymously, from behind a series of proxies or via a botnet. The only solutions possible here are social ones, since technical ones are not available in this setting (they require a responsive, cooperative, and smart system administrator - and Yahoo admins are definitely neither responsive nor cooperative.) Brent, if you're moderating the group, I'd suggest setting it up so that new members can't post until they've been approved - and asking the new members to tell you why they want to join the group (this can be part of the automated response people get when they apply to join.) What they say in the replies don't really matter - the spammers simply won't make the effort. If they can't automate the sign-up process, then the economics of the situation no longer work for them. -- * Ben Okopnik * Editor-in-Chief, Linux Gazette * http://LinuxGazette.NET *| 21242|21233|2009-09-24 07:10:02|audeojude|Re: Alex stop the spammers PLEASE (No Mesage)|What Ben said... though... I did hear of a innovative and fun response to a spammer once people found out who the guy was that was sending out spam. A group of computer geeks/hackers got together and signed the guy up for every snail mail catalog, company information packet, or anything else that generated a regular supply of mail. The guy lived in england and he got enough mail that the postal service had to make two or three runs a day dedicated to his home alone. I seem to remember that it was up in the thousands of items a day and could weigh as much as a ton for a day's deliveries.. I'm going by memory here and it has been a while. The priceless part of it was an interview with him where he was crying about how unfair it was and that he couldn't find any of his legitamte mail in all the junk. I just about hurt a rib laughing. scott --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Ben Okopnik wrote: > > On Wed, Sep 23, 2009 at 08:27:22PM -0400, David Frantz wrote: > > There seems to be no end to these guys. Unfortunately I can't offer > > up any legal solutions. > > There aren't any legal solutions: spammers operate anonymously, from > behind a series of proxies or via a botnet. The only solutions possible > here are social ones, since technical ones are not available in this > setting (they require a responsive, cooperative, and smart system > administrator - and Yahoo admins are definitely neither responsive nor > cooperative.) > > Brent, if you're moderating the group, I'd suggest setting it up so that > new members can't post until they've been approved - and asking the new > members to tell you why they want to join the group (this can be part of > the automated response people get when they apply to join.) What they > say in the replies don't really matter - the spammers simply won't make > the effort. If they can't automate the sign-up process, then the > economics of the situation no longer work for them. > > > -- > * Ben Okopnik * Editor-in-Chief, Linux Gazette * http://LinuxGazette.NET * > | 21243|21233|2009-09-24 08:01:07|Ben Okopnik|Re: Alex stop the spammers PLEASE (No Mesage)|On Thu, Sep 24, 2009 at 11:09:11AM -0000, audeojude wrote: > What Ben said... > > though... I did hear of a innovative and fun response to a spammer > once people found out who the guy was that was sending out spam. A > group of computer geeks/hackers got together and signed the guy up for > every snail mail catalog, company information packet, or anything else > that generated a regular supply of mail. This, of course, is why spammers use botnets: they're not sending anything from their computers. Instead, they take over other computers and use them to relay the spam (the relaying software is the purpose, or "payload" of many viruses.) I would be willing to bet large amounts of money that at least one person in this forum, and very likely more than one, is currently having their computer used as a spam relay. If you a) run Windows on your machine, b) are connected to the Net, and c) do not practice a rigid software hygiene, you're wide open - no matter what kind of anti-virus software you run. This may sound so obvious as to be insulting, but viruses are created *before* anti-virus software can be updated - and there's always a gap, sometimes a very long one, between the appearance of the virus, the AV "signature" being created, and the AV update by the computer owner. Combining that with the fact that there are 60+ viruses being created *every single week* means that your computer is always open and vulnerable to attack. In the early days, the FBI arrested a number of innocent people because child porn, etc. was being distributed from their machines. Fortunately, these days, we've learned better... in most cases, anyway. Cops still tend to grab for their guns when they don't understand something - and when it comes to computers, that's very common. -- * Ben Okopnik * Editor-in-Chief, Linux Gazette * http://LinuxGazette.NET *| 21245|21233|2009-09-24 09:52:56|Barney Treadway|Re: Alex stop the spammers PLEASE (No Mesage)|I worked with the FBI on a compromised server once and they insisted on doing their investigative work on the data drives rather than the application drive. They wouldn't listen to me and somehow never found out anything regarding the breach. Egos were too large to accept suggestions. If they hired some long haired self taught folks rather than MSCE suits they could disrupt the botnets and a vast number of scammers in very short order. Barney Treadway barney@... -----Original Message----- From: Ben Okopnik Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 07:59:39 To: Subject: Re: [origamiboats] Re: Alex stop the spammers PLEASE (No Mesage) On Thu, Sep 24, 2009 at 11:09:11AM -0000, audeojude wrote: > What Ben said... > > though... I did hear of a innovative and fun response to a spammer > once people found out who the guy was that was sending out spam. A > group of computer geeks/hackers got together and signed the guy up for > every snail mail catalog, company information packet, or anything else > that generated a regular supply of mail. This, of course, is why spammers use botnets: they're not sending anything from their computers. Instead, they take over other computers and use them to relay the spam (the relaying software is the purpose, or "payload" of many viruses.) I would be willing to bet large amounts of money that at least one person in this forum, and very likely more than one, is currently having their computer used as a spam relay. If you a) run Windows on your machine, b) are connected to the Net, and c) do not practice a rigid software hygiene, you're wide open - no matter what kind of anti-virus software you run. This may sound so obvious as to be insulting, but viruses are created *before* anti-virus software can be updated - and there's always a gap, sometimes a very long one, between the appearance of the virus, the AV "signature" being created, and the AV update by the computer owner. Combining that with the fact that there are 60+ viruses being created *every single week* means that your computer is always open and vulnerable to attack. In the early days, the FBI arrested a number of innocent people because child porn, etc. was being distributed from their machines. Fortunately, these days, we've learned better... in most cases, anyway. Cops still tend to grab for their guns when they don't understand something - and when it comes to computers, that's very common. -- * Ben Okopnik * Editor-in-Chief, Linux Gazette * http://LinuxGazette.NET * [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 21246|21233|2009-09-24 13:34:27|Ben Okopnik|Re: Alex stop the spammers PLEASE (No Mesage)|On Thu, Sep 24, 2009 at 01:32:02PM +0000, Barney Treadway wrote: > I worked with the FBI on a compromised server once and they insisted > on doing their investigative work on the data drives rather than the > application drive. [laugh] You'd think they'd follow the basic rules of criminal investigation - which are exactly the same as those for computer forensics. Scary how their brains go on vacation when the word "computer" pops up... > They wouldn't listen to me and somehow never found > out anything regarding the breach. Egos were too large to accept > suggestions. If they hired some long haired self taught folks rather > than MSCE suits they could disrupt the botnets and a vast number of > scammers in very short order. Hey, my hair is pretty short these days! :) I take your point, and couldn't agree more. -- * Ben Okopnik * Editor-in-Chief, Linux Gazette * http://LinuxGazette.NET *| 21247|21233|2009-09-24 18:50:42|kingsknight4life|Re: Alex stop the spammers PLEASE (Message)|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "jpronk1" wrote: > > Hello Rowland > I found the photos of Bev's and your new boat, it looks great! I see it has a lot of detail work done on deck. Have you been able to do much work to it, how is it coming? > James > > James We've done absolutely NO work to it this year. I had planned on having it foamed and painted this summer but I could neither afford to take the time off work to go work on the boat or afford to pay someone to. Our boat is on Vancouver Island right now and we are in the prairies, way too far away. Rowland| 21248|21233|2009-09-24 21:17:29|Gary H. Lucas|Re: Alex stop the spammers PLEASE (No Mesage)|My best friend interviewed with the FBI a while back. Too bad they didn't hire him, he would wipe out half the spammers in about 6 months I'd bet! He was a factory authorized repair facility (his bedroom) for the Commodore computers when he was 14. Met his wife by writing his own search engine! But he couldn't figure out why he kept meeting women who were into extreme sports, mountain climbing, skydiving, cave diving, that kind of thing. It was pretty simple, those were the early days of the internet. The only women willing to go out on dates with guys they met over the internet were the very self confident ones! Gary H. Lucas ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ben Okopnik" To: Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 2:32 PM Subject: Re: [origamiboats] Re: Alex stop the spammers PLEASE (No Mesage) > On Thu, Sep 24, 2009 at 01:32:02PM +0000, Barney Treadway wrote: >> I worked with the FBI on a compromised server once and they insisted >> on doing their investigative work on the data drives rather than the >> application drive. > > [laugh] You'd think they'd follow the basic rules of criminal > investigation - which are exactly the same as those for computer > forensics. Scary how their brains go on vacation when the word > "computer" pops up... > >> They wouldn't listen to me and somehow never found >> out anything regarding the breach. Egos were too large to accept >> suggestions. If they hired some long haired self taught folks rather >> than MSCE suits they could disrupt the botnets and a vast number of >> scammers in very short order. > > Hey, my hair is pretty short these days! :) I take your point, and > couldn't agree more. > > > -- > * Ben Okopnik * Editor-in-Chief, Linux Gazette * http://LinuxGazette.NET * > | 21249|21233|2009-09-24 21:30:16|Ben Okopnik|Re: Alex stop the spammers PLEASE (No Mesage)|On Thu, Sep 24, 2009 at 09:16:52PM -0400, Gary H. Lucas wrote: > My best friend interviewed with the FBI a while back. Too bad they didn't > hire him, he would wipe out half the spammers in about 6 months I'd bet! He > was a factory authorized repair facility (his bedroom) for the Commodore > computers when he was 14. Met his wife by writing his own search engine! > But he couldn't figure out why he kept meeting women who were into extreme > sports, mountain climbing, skydiving, cave diving, that kind of thing. Gosh. Sounds just... awful. :) > It > was pretty simple, those were the early days of the internet. The only > women willing to go out on dates with guys they met over the internet were > the very self confident ones! All you had to do is weed out the bunny-boiling types and the ones who wanted to chain you to the wall of a dungeon while they wielded the rawhide bullwhip. The rest were pretty fun - assuming you survived the experience. :) -- * Ben Okopnik * Editor-in-Chief, Linux Gazette * http://LinuxGazette.NET *| 21251|21233|2009-09-25 20:46:24|sunbear|MIG welder Comox Valley|I notice in the local paper that a MIG welder and associated pieces are being sold at a garage sale 1955 Willemar Ave. Sat. Sept. 26 8am to 1200| 21255|21203|2009-09-29 16:59:04|aaron riis|cheap epoxy|Hey Brent or anyone, where do  you buy this 35 dollar a gallon epoxy tar? Ammeron is 100 a gallon in Prince Rupert. Aaron               --- On Wed, 9/23/09, brentswain38 wrote: From: brentswain38 Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Watermaker To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Received: Wednesday, September 23, 2009, 3:22 PM   Yes that is a good price. You could do an engine driven one for roughly $1,000, but how much do you value the time you spend running around for and making up parts and how big a hurry are you in? Brent --- In origamiboats@ yahoogroups. com, "sunbear" wrote: > > FYI there is a 25 GPH watermaker for sale in Comox for $1500--good price?? http://comoxvalley. en.craigslist. ca/boa/138593956 3.html > __________________________________________________________________ The new Internet Explorer® 8 - Faster, safer, easier. Optimized for Yahoo! Get it Now for Free! at http://downloads.yahoo.com/ca/internetexplorer/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 21256|21256|2009-09-30 08:46:05|smithconsulting41|building an aluminium BS 40 footer|I am in the preparation stage of building an aluminium BS and have done lots of research, but one of my good freinds who has a 36 steel BS suggested putting my idea on the site to let you kick around a little with the intent that the end results would give my some deeper insight of the project ahead of me. Russell| 21257|21257|2009-09-30 09:23:45|Garrett Davis|Taboo Subject: Aluminum Cats|First off, I have searched and read every post related to aluminum catamarans in origami.  I see that several years ago my questions were almost answered, but the subject died off.  I also found what would have been good info, except the links and websites are dead.  I figured now would be a good time to bring this up again since the main body of topics lately seem to be spam anyway.  I am in the process of designing and then building an aluminum catamaran.  It will mainly be a power cat, probably 18-20ft x 47-50ft.  I have also considered in-hull junk rigs for a little help downwind as this cat will eventually do a tradewind circumnavigation.  My goal is a low prismatic coefficient, but decent loading abilites.  I'm only going to use 60 or so hp engines with shaft drives instead of the usual 150+hp powercat engines.  The closest example to what I'm going for is the new Maine Cat 47, although I'm going for a much cheaper, saltier boat.  Their 8kt fuel burns are impressive.  Here are my questions:  Some info has been lost on examples of the darts and cuts involved for cat hulls.  Does anyone have anything that they could share?  Also, it was almost touched on years ago, but I am really leaning towards an aluminum origami construction of a Malcolm Tennant style hull.  I saw where it was discussed, but nothing appeared to have blossomed from it.  I realize that it will most likely be a hybrid construction of origami, strongall, and traditional frame and stringer construction.  Does anyone have any info that might be relevant?  I'm trying to do most of the design myself, but I do realize that there are things that I will need help on, to include professional consultation.  I have played around with some paper cutting to get some ideas, but I have a ways to go in order to get the results I want.  Thanks, Garrett [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]| 21258|21256|2009-09-30 11:27:10|Carl Anderson|Re: building an aluminium BS 40 footer|Russell, Steel or aluminum is your choice. I do hope that you have the following: Brents book & plans, Alex's DVD video of Brent pulling a BS 36 hull together, Perhaps my photo CD showing the complete detailing of a BS 36. Good luck, Carl sv-mom.com smithconsulting41 wrote: > > > I am in the preparation stage of building an aluminium BS and have done > lots of research, but one of my good freinds who has a 36 steel BS > suggested putting my idea on the site to let you kick around a little > with the intent that the end results would give my some deeper insight > of the project ahead of me. > > Russell > > | 21259|21256|2009-09-30 11:27:50|David Frantz|Re: building an aluminium BS 40 footer|Expensive and severe corrosion come to mind right off the bat. Plus welding Aluminum requires an indoor construction site. Ideally that site has three phase power available. Now I have actually owned an Aluminum boat so I can't comment on such a boat from the operational stand point. All I can say is that the fabrication of Aluminum is a whole different ball game. David A Frantz websterindustro@... Sent from my iPhone. On Sep 30, 2009, at 8:45 AM, smithconsulting41 wrote: > I am in the preparation stage of building an aluminium BS and have > done lots of research, but one of my good freinds who has a 36 steel > BS suggested putting my idea on the site to let you kick around a > little with the intent that the end results would give my some > deeper insight of the project ahead of me. > > Russell > > > > ------------------------------------ > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.comYahoo > ! Groups Links > > > | 21260|21203|2009-09-30 11:28:53|Carl Anderson|Re: cheap epoxy|Aaron, I used Wasser tar at roughly $45 per gallon (I got 25 gallons at once so that helps the pricing). I believe that retail is under $60 per gallon on that. This is NOT epoxy and does not cure to an extremely hard surface as epoxy does. It DOES have an unlimited recoat time, however, making paint repair much easier. Carl sv-mom.com aaron riis wrote: > > > > Hey Brent or anyone, where do you buy this 35 dollar a gallon epoxy > tar? Ammeron is 100 a gallon in Prince Rupert. > Aaron | 21261|21256|2009-09-30 11:38:33|David Frantz|Re: building an aluminium BS 40 footer|Pardon me, that should have been "have not owned" below. My comments mainly reflect what I know about welding Aluminum. David A Frantz websterindustro@... Sent from my iPhone. On Sep 30, 2009, at 11:23 AM, David Frantz wrote: > Expensive and severe corrosion come to mind right off the bat. Plus > welding Aluminum requires an indoor construction site. Ideally that > site has three phase power available. > > Now I have actually owned an Aluminum boat so I can't comment on such > a boat from the operational stand point. All I can say is that the > fabrication of Aluminum is a whole different ball game. > > > > David A Frantz > > websterindustro@... > Sent from my iPhone. > > On Sep 30, 2009, at 8:45 AM, smithconsulting41 > wrote: > >> I am in the preparation stage of building an aluminium BS and have >> done lots of research, but one of my good freinds who has a 36 steel >> BS suggested putting my idea on the site to let you kick around a >> little with the intent that the end results would give my some >> deeper insight of the project ahead of me. >> >> Russell >> >> >> >> ------------------------------------ >> >> To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com >> To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.comYahoo >> ! Groups Links >> >> >> > > > ------------------------------------ > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.comYahoo > ! Groups Links > > > | 21262|21257|2009-09-30 11:56:01|Doug - SubmarineBoat.com|Re: Taboo Subject: Aluminum Cats|Hello Garrett Whats taboo about an aluminum cat? From the sound of it you know what you want. Have you made any models? Did you get what you wanted? Got any photos to share? This boat below, once had a detailed build info on web site under "Big Aluminum Cat" It's worth finding if you can. The builder whose name I can not remember got into wave piercing catamarans after selling this boat. http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/attachments/multihulls/33535d1248697123-aluminum-cat-project-boat1.jpg Personally, I think aluminum is a great building material. Cuts better that wood and stronger that steel by weight. Thats hard to beat. The thing I hate about it is how easily you can gouge it. But your not building a work boat. I also think aluminum is easy to weld and get great results after a short learning curve. Best of Luck Doug Jackson SubmarineBoat.com --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Garrett Davis wrote: > > First off, I have searched and read every post related to aluminum catamarans in origami.  I see that several years ago my questions were almost answered, but the subject died off.  I also found what would have been good info, except the links and websites are dead.  I figured now would be a good time to bring this up again since the main body of topics lately seem to be spam anyway.  > > I am in the process of designing and then building an aluminum catamaran.  It will mainly be a power cat, probably 18-20ft x 47-50ft.  I have also considered in-hull junk rigs for a little help downwind as this cat will eventually do a tradewind circumnavigation.  My goal is a low prismatic coefficient, but decent loading abilites.  I'm only going to use 60 or so hp engines with shaft drives instead of the usual 150+hp powercat engines.  The closest example to what I'm going for is the new Maine Cat 47, although I'm going for a much cheaper, saltier boat.  Their 8kt fuel burns are impressive.  Here are my questions:  Some info has been lost on examples of the darts and cuts involved for cat hulls.  Does anyone have anything that they could share?  Also, it was almost touched on years ago, but I am really leaning towards an aluminum origami construction of a Malcolm Tennant style hull.  I saw where it was discussed, but nothing appeared to have > blossomed from it.  I realize that it will most likely be a hybrid construction of origami, strongall, and traditional frame and stringer construction.  Does anyone have any info that might be relevant?  I'm trying to do most of the design myself, but I do realize that there are things that I will need help on, to include professional consultation.  I have played around with some paper cutting to get some ideas, but I have a ways to go in order to get the results I want.  > > Thanks, > Garrett > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > | 21263|21257|2009-09-30 13:04:53|Maximo|Re: Taboo Subject: Aluminum Cats|Big taboo :) http://www.iceladypatagonia.org.ar/ice2_construccion.php Regards, Máximo.| 21264|21256|2009-09-30 16:10:49|brentswain38|Re: building an aluminium BS 40 footer|I know a fussy, but practical guy who built an aluminium boat outside. Just picked dry, flat calm days for welding and did his detail work inside on bad days. Did a great job. Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, David Frantz wrote: > > Expensive and severe corrosion come to mind right off the bat. Plus > welding Aluminum requires an indoor construction site. Ideally that > site has three phase power available. > > Now I have actually owned an Aluminum boat so I can't comment on such > a boat from the operational stand point. All I can say is that the > fabrication of Aluminum is a whole different ball game. > > > > David A Frantz > > websterindustro@... > Sent from my iPhone. > > On Sep 30, 2009, at 8:45 AM, smithconsulting41 > wrote: > > > I am in the preparation stage of building an aluminium BS and have > > done lots of research, but one of my good freinds who has a 36 steel > > BS suggested putting my idea on the site to let you kick around a > > little with the intent that the end results would give my some > > deeper insight of the project ahead of me. > > > > Russell > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@... > > ! Groups Links > > > > > > > | 21265|21203|2009-09-30 16:19:01|brentswain38|Re: cheap epoxy|Several years ago I walked into Industrial Plastics in Courtenay and asked what epoxy tar costs. They said $44 a litre. I went next door to Cloverdale paints and was told $44 a gallon. Get quotes from many sources. Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, aaron riis wrote: > > > Hey Brent or anyone, where do you buy this 35 dollar a gallon epoxy tar? Ammeron is 100 a gallon in Prince Rupert. > Aaron > > > > > > > > > --- On Wed, 9/23/09, brentswain38 wrote: > > > From: brentswain38 > Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Watermaker > To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > Received: Wednesday, September 23, 2009, 3:22 PM > > > > > > > Yes that is a good price. You could do an engine driven one for roughly $1,000, but how much do you value the time you spend running around for and making up parts and how big a hurry are you in? > Brent > > --- In origamiboats@ yahoogroups. com, "sunbear" wrote: > > > > FYI there is a 25 GPH watermaker for sale in Comox for $1500--good price?? http://comoxvalley. en.craigslist. ca/boa/138593956 3.html > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________________________ > The new Internet Explorer® 8 - Faster, safer, easier. Optimized for Yahoo! Get it Now for Free! at http://downloads.yahoo.com/ca/internetexplorer/ > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > | 21266|21257|2009-09-30 20:26:12|Paul Wilson|Re: Taboo Subject: Aluminum Cats|You might want to google "Easton catamarans" for some ideas. I think they are origami-type construction. I have just seen one catamaran in the Caribbean that had origami hulls and it was beautifully built. The owners weren't around but suspect with its kick-up rudders it was an Easton catamaran. I really like the idea of a thick plate, aluminum origami design. If the plate is thick enough, you can get away with using no paint like some of the French aluminum monohulls...a huge saving in cost and maintenance. Also there are power catamarans built in the South Pacific for the fishing industry out of large aluminum sheets like origami. They are basically a flat sheet with a curve put on one edge and then cut to a pattern so you end up with a U shaped cross section. They are called Alia's in Samoa and Fiji and get up to about 30 feet. They go great with a single 40 horse Yamaha outboard but it's hard to find info on them. Google "Alia Catamaran Samoa" and you will find a few matches. There are a lot of reports of them going missing but that's because they use them open decked and don't maintain them properly. I have seen them out in huge waves well offshore and was quite impressed with them. If you are designing it yourself, I would try using Hulls from Carlson design and then Freeship (Delftship) on the computer once you get the hang of Hulls. Both are free. They are really good programs for doing chined hulls and developments which can later be adapted to origami by joining your cut-out panels together. Apologies if you already know this :). Sounds like an interesting project, Good luck, Paul Garrett Davis wrote: > > > First off, I have searched and read every post related to aluminum > catamarans in origami. I see that several years ago my questions were > almost answered, but the subject died off. I also found what would > have been good info, except the links and websites are dead. I > figured now would be a good time to bring this up again since the main > body of topics lately seem to be spam anyway. > > I am in the process of designing and then building an aluminum > catamaran. It will mainly be a power cat, probably 18-20ft x > 47-50ft. I have also considered in-hull junk rigs for a little help > downwind as this cat will eventually do a tradewind circumnavigation. > My goal is a low prismatic coefficient, but decent loading abilites. > I'm only going to use 60 or so hp engines with shaft drives instead of > the usual 150+hp powercat engines. The closest example to what I'm > going for is the new Maine Cat 47, although I'm going for a much > cheaper, saltier boat. Their 8kt fuel burns are impressive. Here are > my questions: Some info has been lost on examples of the darts and > cuts involved for cat hulls. Does anyone have anything that they > could share? Also, it was almost touched on years ago, but I am > really leaning towards an aluminum origami construction of a Malcolm > Tennant style hull. I saw where it was discussed, but nothing > appeared to have > blossomed from it. I realize that it will most likely be a hybrid > construction of origami, strongall, and traditional frame and stringer > construction. Does anyone have any info that might be relevant? I'm > trying to do most of the design myself, but I do realize that there > are things that I will need help on, to include professional > consultation. I have played around with some paper cutting to get > some ideas, but I have a ways to go in order to get the results I want. > > Thanks, > Garrett > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.409 / Virus Database: 270.13.115/2404 - Release Date: 09/30/09 05:52:00 > > | 21267|21203|2009-09-30 23:45:04|Shane Duncan|Aluminium mast for a BS31|I can buy a good conditioned aluminium mast that came off a 36 foot fibreglass yacht 160mm x 110 mm by 3.5mm wall thickness     12m long Would this be OK for a BS 31?  or is it on the light side? good second hand masts are very hard to come by on the west coast of Australia Cheers shane __________________________________________________________________________________ Get more done like never before with Yahoo!7 Mail. Learn more: http://au.overview.mail.yahoo.com/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]| 21268|21257|2009-09-30 23:56:39|mark hamill|Re: Taboo Subject: Aluminum Cats|Somewhat wine enfused Advice from a cat owner: why not just save yourself a huge amount of angst, worry, pondering and channel that wasted energy because it is going to be easier (but you will still have the some problems) and just buy a plan such as a wharram that will allow you to contact the designers (James, Hanneke, Ruth) and ask them questions? Or go to the Wharram site or Multihulls.com in England and buy a used one. (Mine was from Ontario) Get out on the water and speed up your enjoyment. This is from one who has done this. A boat in hand, no matter what it is a dream realized. I bought my Wharram Tangaroa Mk 4 for less than construction cost. It was not perfect but so what. Like you I had images of the "perfect cat". That was 1994. 15 years later I do not care. What I have is my friend. Limitations alot. Settle on the mud, sand, rock---flat and no list check. Draws 2 feet check. Sails to 60* windward oh well-- check. Comes about sometime like a brick causing alot of swearing (got used to it) and now sheeting the main hard in til last moment check.Being able to walk on deck in 70 knot winds and reduce sail while smoking something --check, Having new non sailing friends come up from cooking in the galley in a really blast and saying we thought there was no wind--check, Having my wife look at me in an incredibly rocky anchorage for others and seeing her as sitting in one spot with no movement up or down or side to side. It Is the sailing not the materials that count is my thought here. Don't be like me and wait too long, I have NEVER regretted buying my imperfect but already constructed cat all the best, Mark H [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]| 21269|21203|2009-10-01 00:19:22|theboilerflue|Re: cheap epoxy|I too used wasser tar cost about 85 CND a gallon (in large amounts) got it from Micron (or Cancoat - they're merging) they're in vancouver but have a warehouse in victoria they supply the naval shipyards there i belive with a lot of International Paints but deal with wasser as well I called Wasser in Kent, WA and this is who they said they dealt with on the west coast 604-291-8242 for the main office in vancouver 250-383-2414 for the ware house in Esquimalt the zinc primer cost more weighing in around 125 CND or so if i can remember correctly now. get lots of thinner with it. --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Carl Anderson wrote: > > Aaron, > > I used Wasser tar at roughly $45 per gallon (I got 25 gallons at once so > that helps the pricing). > I believe that retail is under $60 per gallon on that. > This is NOT epoxy and does not cure to an extremely hard surface as > epoxy does. > It DOES have an unlimited recoat time, however, making paint repair much > easier. > > Carl > sv-mom.com > > > > aaron riis wrote: > > > > > > > > Hey Brent or anyone, where do you buy this 35 dollar a gallon epoxy > > tar? Ammeron is 100 a gallon in Prince Rupert. > > Aaron > | 21270|21270|2009-10-01 00:22:17|theboilerflue|cheap GPS primer please|So question for those of you with boats, or you computer savy folks. What sort of system do you use/recommend for a boat? I have an old Compaq Evo with a dead battery It would seem easy to get a GPS antenna and some sort of charts i can put onto it and away I go, seems easy enough but I'm not really sure what I'm doing most other people seem to have their GPs routed through a hand held device or a chart plotter which is expensive and seems unnecessary. I've been told to avoid any garmin products including there (no longer manufactured) hockey puck antenna as Garmin is kinda like the Apple of GPS world and only talks to other Garmin stuff (even though there is supposed to be some sort of international agreement on navigation soft/hardware to be non discriminatory and prevent expressly that).| 21271|21203|2009-10-01 00:30:12|theboilerflue|Re: cheap epoxy|The Wasser seems like a nice product (i'm no expert and in fact have nothing to compare it to) It's moisture cured and was designed to be applied in pretty extreme environments (extreme for painting that is) ie. wet, dirty and cold aren't supposed to affect it much. But it's moisture cured not like the epoxy tar where you have to add a curing agent for it to kick all you have to do is expose it to moisture ie. the air ie. opening the can so.... and i haven't tried this, but I don't think it'll keep very well if at all after opening your gallon can and doing a little touch up. Coal tar epoxy will last a long long time apparently in the can (unmixed of course). I however have touch a couple places up with tar epoxy and it seems fine though so we'll see. --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "theboilerflue" wrote: > > I too used wasser tar cost about 85 CND a gallon (in large amounts) got it from Micron (or Cancoat - they're merging) they're in vancouver but have a warehouse in victoria they supply the naval shipyards there i belive with a lot of International Paints but deal with wasser as well I called Wasser in Kent, WA and this is who they said they dealt with on the west coast 604-291-8242 for the main office in vancouver 250-383-2414 for the ware house in Esquimalt the zinc primer cost more weighing in around 125 CND or so if i can remember correctly now. get lots of thinner with it. > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Carl Anderson wrote: > > > > Aaron, > > > > I used Wasser tar at roughly $45 per gallon (I got 25 gallons at once so > > that helps the pricing). > > I believe that retail is under $60 per gallon on that. > > This is NOT epoxy and does not cure to an extremely hard surface as > > epoxy does. > > It DOES have an unlimited recoat time, however, making paint repair much > > easier. > > > > Carl > > sv-mom.com > > > > > > > > aaron riis wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Hey Brent or anyone, where do you buy this 35 dollar a gallon epoxy > > > tar? Ammeron is 100 a gallon in Prince Rupert. > > > Aaron > > > | 21273|21270|2009-10-01 06:56:18|audeojude|Re: cheap GPS primer please|I recently setup a laptop as my chartplotter. downloaded the free maps from noaa used a software program called seaclearII http://www.sping.com/seaclear/ and I bought a Gosget BU 358 USB GPS Receiver to plug into the the laptop for 29 dollars. http://cgi.ebay.com/Gosget-BU-358-USB-GPS-Receiver_W0QQitemZ390091488072QQcmdZViewItemQQptZGPS_Devices?hash=item5ad343bb48&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14 You could buy any of the current generation of netbooks for between 299 and 400 dollars to use with it. this would give you a 9 to 10 inch screen to display on as well as give you a full laptop as well as a navigation device. If you pick the right unit it will give you a 8 to 10 hour battery life. The only downside is that they are not waterproof. I would also advise buying the aftermarket warranty that covers you dropping it or spilling something on it. In a boat that bounces this might be more valuable than normal. So for a total cost of 350 to 450 dollars you get a 9 to 10 inch gps with all the maps of the united states. I'm not sure if the NOAA maps include the canadian coastline as well. Since you have to pass up it to get to alaska I would think they would but I have never looked. scott --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "theboilerflue" wrote: > > So question for those of you with boats, or you computer savy folks. What sort of system do you use/recommend for a boat? > I have an old Compaq Evo with a dead battery It would seem easy to get a GPS antenna and some sort of charts i can put onto it and away I go, seems easy enough but I'm not really sure what I'm doing most other people seem to have their GPs routed through a hand held device or a chart plotter which is expensive and seems unnecessary. I've been told to avoid any garmin products including there (no longer manufactured) hockey puck antenna as Garmin is kinda like the Apple of GPS world and only talks to other Garmin stuff (even though there is supposed to be some sort of international agreement on navigation soft/hardware to be non discriminatory and prevent expressly that). > | 21274|21274|2009-10-01 08:56:53|Stymied|45' Aluminum Old Cruiser|eBay #200386866060 Vessel lies Toms River, NJ Auction is expired but this is still available for a few hours. The owner is going to cut it up b/c he can't sell it. I would get it but truck shipping quote is too expensive and she is 2500 miles from me by water. Really sweet old full keel aluminum Carl Alberg one-off. Interior is absolute sh!t but boat is all there and you could pick the vessel up for $15K. Seller's email is roy crowe Please don't waste his time because he has already had to deal with a lot of tire-kickers and wankers. Ken| 21275|21203|2009-10-01 09:04:59|will jones|Re: cheap epoxy|Have you checked out the following: http://www.epoxyproducts.com/a_epoxypaint.html Not at your $35/gal level, but as inexpensive as I have seen coal tar epoxy.  Site has always been obnoxious, but the information, prices and product quality more than makes up for it. My wife claims I have issues. I agree while looking at her. Cyclone 13 SanJuan 7.7 Morgan 33T IOR, Hull 24 Bloomington, IN --- On Tue, 9/29/09, aaron riis wrote: From: aaron riis Subject: [origamiboats] cheap epoxy To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, September 29, 2009, 4:58 PM   Hey Brent or anyone, where do  you buy this 35 dollar a gallon epoxy tar? Ammeron is 100 a gallon in Prince Rupert. Aaron               --- On Wed, 9/23/09, brentswain38 wrote: From: brentswain38 Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Watermaker To: origamiboats@ yahoogroups. com Received: Wednesday, September 23, 2009, 3:22 PM   Yes that is a good price. You could do an engine driven one for roughly $1,000, but how much do you value the time you spend running around for and making up parts and how big a hurry are you in? Brent --- In origamiboats@ yahoogroups. com, "sunbear" wrote: > > FYI there is a 25 GPH watermaker for sale in Comox for $1500--good price?? http://comoxvalley. en.craigslist. ca/boa/138593956 3.html > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _ The new Internet Explorer® 8 - Faster, safer, easier. Optimized for Yahoo! Get it Now for Free! at http://downloads. yahoo.com/ ca/internetexplo rer/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 21276|21270|2009-10-01 12:05:10|sunbearone|Re: cheap GPS primer please|GReat info--To protect the keyboard I have heard that the new generation of cling and seal wrap works well| 21277|21270|2009-10-01 12:37:34|steve|Re: cheap GPS primer please|Haidan I use an old laptop ,with dead battery removed, plugged into invertor. Draws 1.5 amps. I will get a 12v to 19 v convertor for even more efficiency. Doug Swanson would prob be happy to order a puck type gps for you. He does a lot of that. I have discs on board that would work for you. I will be on the boat Sat/Sun re-tying the series drogue knots (mindless and meditative). Bring your machine over and we can plug it in to my gps and invertor and try out the discs. Ha, today and tomorrow I am WORKING ! Steve --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "theboilerflue" wrote: > > So question for those of you with boats, or you computer savy folks. What sort of system do you use/recommend for a boat? > I have an old Compaq Evo with a dead battery It would seem easy to get a GPS antenna and some sort of charts i can put onto it and away I go, seems easy enough but I'm not really sure what I'm doing most other people seem to have their GPs routed through a hand held device or a chart plotter which is expensive and seems unnecessary. I've been told to avoid any garmin products including there (no longer manufactured) hockey puck antenna as Garmin is kinda like the Apple of GPS world and only talks to other Garmin stuff (even though there is supposed to be some sort of international agreement on navigation soft/hardware to be non discriminatory and prevent expressly that). > | 21278|21257|2009-10-01 13:46:51|Denis Buggy|Re: Taboo Subject: Aluminum Cats|GARRETT I know a man in my home town called Ger who was the C A D man for LAPPLE the German engineering co which makes all the moulds --male and female for stamping out body panels for most of the worlds high quality cars and commercials . I have asked this man to give me a hand on various things in order to produce technical drawings and costing and stress analysis -- his software is worth approx 350,000-00 euros and it is like asking Shakespeare to help with some spelling . however as LAPPLE --CARLOW have recently moved to a cheaper location he is now unemployed and has the time to help me for a small cost and a lot of his advice has been freely given . high tech cad people are now not so unusual and most steel structural engineers and architectural engineers now have high spec software . in my own case I have asked the son of a friend of mine who is currently studying marine engineering at Strathclyde university to help me and he may use some of my work for his thesis -- these people have access to solutions I have yet to discover problems for and some things way beyond my ability are childs play to them , if you spend time in the company of experts in their field expect to get a good cheap education . regards Denis ----- Original Message ----- From: Garrett Davis To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 2009 2:23 PM Subject: [origamiboats] Taboo Subject: Aluminum Cats traditional frame and stringer construction. Does anyone have any info that might be relevant? I'm trying to do most of the design myself, but I do realize that there are things that I will need help on, to include professional consultation. I have played around with some paper cutting to get some ideas, but I have a ways to go in order to get the results I want. Thanks, Garrett [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 21279|21270|2009-10-01 19:14:09|sunbear|Re: cheap GPS primer please|Steve: Did you get your Canadian Charts free online?? thanks, Mark| 21280|21280|2009-10-01 19:15:09|jpronk1|Bow roller|I'm still building small parts for my boat. I was going to get started on the bow roller and was wondering if 5/8" stainless steel plate would be over kill and should I go with 1/2"instead? Thank you, James| 21281|21270|2009-10-01 21:04:11|steve|Re: cheap GPS primer please|Mark , No , I did not get them online. I should look into that. Maybe try out Seaclear. Are Canadian charts available free online ? Steve --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "sunbear" wrote: > > Steve: Did you get your Canadian Charts free online?? > thanks, Mark > | 21282|21270|2009-10-01 21:09:04|Paul Wilson|Re: cheap GPS primer please|All good advice.....a cruiser I know is getting 7 hours out of an Acer Aspire One with the extra large battery. I would add that the cost of the computer and electronic charts is less than the cost of paper charts if you are going to do lot of miles. In the South Pacific, I have found BA charts the best but at the prices they charge, you can buy the electronic charts much, much cheaper. I think its a good idea to have a printer and print off your own strip charts before a passage in case the whole system goes down. Even with a computer, I like paper charts. I would also say that you should have a gps visible in the cockpit when you are doing tight piloting in amongst reefs or rocks. Having a gps only visible below doesn't cut it when you need to react quickly following an old track in the reefs. I prefer a computer setup as described down below (where it won't get any water) and then a cheap hand held up top wired to 12 volts but that can also take alkaline batteries in an emergency. If your budget can allow it, a chartplotter is great but not necessary....If you don't like or feel limited by Seaclear, OziExplorer is a great program (great for printing charts) and well worth the money IMHO. Play with the demo version and see what you think. You can save waypoints, edit them, save tracks and routes, and then call them up at a later date and write them back into most gps units. I love OziExplorer so much that I would check if a gps talked to the program first before I bought it. I am on a boat now with a brand new Garmin that won't and I want to toss it overboard. OziExplorer have a good website and yahoo group if you want to learn more. The downside of Oziexplorer and other raster programs is it doesn't directly read vector charts like Cmap. I can still do a screenshot (or any other scan) from Cmap, however, and calibrate and import a chart into OziExplorer. It only takes me about 5 minutes to calibrate a map once you get the hang of it. Most people offshore use Cmap and give it away for free.....2 discs cover the whole world but you never heard it from me..... Cheers, Paul Audeojude wrote: > > > I recently setup a laptop as my chartplotter. downloaded the free maps > from noaa used a software program called seaclearII > http://www.sping.com/seaclear/ and I > bought a Gosget BU 358 USB GPS Receiver to plug into the the laptop > for 29 dollars. > http://cgi.ebay.com/Gosget-BU-358-USB-GPS-Receiver_W0QQitemZ390091488072QQcmdZViewItemQQptZGPS_Devices?hash=item5ad343bb48&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14 > > > You could buy any of the current generation of netbooks for between > 299 and 400 dollars to use with it. this would give you a 9 to 10 inch > screen to display on as well as give you a full laptop as well as a > navigation device. If you pick the right unit it will give you a 8 to > 10 hour battery life. The only downside is that they are not > waterproof. I would also advise buying the aftermarket warranty that > covers you dropping it or spilling something on it. In a boat that > bounces this might be more valuable than normal. So for a total cost > of 350 to 450 dollars you get a 9 to 10 inch gps with all the maps of > the united states. I'm not sure if the NOAA maps include the canadian > coastline as well. Since you have to pass up it to get to alaska I > would think they would but I have never looked. > scott > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > , "theboilerflue" > wrote: > > > > So question for those of you with boats, or you computer savy folks. > What sort of system do you use/recommend for a boat? > > I have an old Compaq Evo with a dead battery It would seem easy to > get a GPS antenna and some sort of charts i can put onto it and away I > go, seems easy enough but I'm not really sure what I'm doing most > other people seem to have their GPs routed through a hand held device > or a chart plotter which is expensive and seems unnecessary. I've been > told to avoid any garmin products including there (no longer > manufactured) hockey puck antenna as Garmin is kinda like the Apple of > GPS world and only talks to other Garmin stuff (even though there is > supposed to be some sort of international agreement on navigation > soft/hardware to be non discriminatory and prevent expressly that). > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.409 / Virus Database: 270.13.115/2404 - Release Date: 09/30/09 05:52:00 > > | 21283|21203|2009-10-02 02:52:37|Ralph|Re: Aluminium mast for a BS31_Celebration|Shane, congratulations with your boat in the water. Thanks for sharing. I decided to go for the 36 in stead of the 31; less chance that the crew will complain about lack of interior space and higher resale price. All the best, Ralph --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Shane Duncan wrote: > > > > > > I can buy a good conditioned aluminium mast > that came off a 36 foot fibreglass yacht > 160mm x 110 mm by 3.5mm wall thickness     12m long > Would this be OK for a BS 31? >  or is it on the light side? > good second hand masts are very hard to come by > on the west coast of Australia > Cheers > shane > > > __________________________________________________________________________________ > Get more done like never before with Yahoo!7 Mail. > Learn more: http://au.overview.mail.yahoo.com/ > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > | 21284|21270|2009-10-02 13:53:35|sunbear|Re: cheap GPS primer please|I have tried looking on line for free canadian charts but the closest I came to charts were the ones sold by www.fedpubs.com/charts.htm. Somebody gave me charts of Van Isle on a CD--want a copy?| 21285|21274|2009-10-02 19:38:58|Gary H. Lucas|Re: 45' Aluminum Old Cruiser|I'm going to see about taking a look at it. My Etap 26 is in Tom's River and I need to button her up for the winter. I think this is boat I heard about 10 years ago. I drove around trying to find it but never did. Gary H. Lucas ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stymied" To: Sent: Thursday, October 01, 2009 8:56 AM Subject: [origamiboats] 45' Aluminum Old Cruiser eBay #200386866060 Vessel lies Toms River, NJ Auction is expired but this is still available for a few hours. The owner is going to cut it up b/c he can't sell it. I would get it but truck shipping quote is too expensive and she is 2500 miles from me by water. Really sweet old full keel aluminum Carl Alberg one-off. Interior is absolute sh!t but boat is all there and you could pick the vessel up for $15K. Seller's email is roy crowe Please don't waste his time because he has already had to deal with a lot of tire-kickers and wankers. Ken | 21286|21270|2009-10-04 15:36:27|GP|Re: cheap GPS primer please|Scott... thanks for that... my now grown and working kids gave me one of those small computers for Christmas last year. I would like to do the same thing. Perhaps someone out there might know where digital charts are available that will run with Sea Clear... Gary --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "audeojude" wrote: > > I recently setup a laptop as my chartplotter. downloaded the free maps from noaa used a software program called seaclearII http://www.sping.com/seaclear/ and I bought a Gosget BU 358 USB GPS Receiver to plug into the the laptop for 29 dollars. http://cgi.ebay.com/Gosget-BU-358-USB-GPS-Receiver_W0QQitemZ390091488072QQcmdZViewItemQQptZGPS_Devices?hash=item5ad343bb48&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14 > > You could buy any of the current generation of netbooks for between 299 and 400 dollars to use with it. this would give you a 9 to 10 inch screen to display on as well as give you a full laptop as well as a navigation device. If you pick the right unit it will give you a 8 to 10 hour battery life. The only downside is that they are not waterproof. I would also advise buying the aftermarket warranty that covers you dropping it or spilling something on it. In a boat that bounces this might be more valuable than normal. So for a total cost of 350 to 450 dollars you get a 9 to 10 inch gps with all the maps of the united states. I'm not sure if the NOAA maps include the canadian coastline as well. Since you have to pass up it to get to alaska I would think they would but I have never looked. > scott > > > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "theboilerflue" wrote: > > > > So question for those of you with boats, or you computer savy folks. What sort of system do you use/recommend for a boat? > > I have an old Compaq Evo with a dead battery It would seem easy to get a GPS antenna and some sort of charts i can put onto it and away I go, seems easy enough but I'm not really sure what I'm doing most other people seem to have their GPs routed through a hand held device or a chart plotter which is expensive and seems unnecessary. I've been told to avoid any garmin products including there (no longer manufactured) hockey puck antenna as Garmin is kinda like the Apple of GPS world and only talks to other Garmin stuff (even though there is supposed to be some sort of international agreement on navigation soft/hardware to be non discriminatory and prevent expressly that). > > > | 21287|21256|2009-10-04 15:48:28|GP|Re: building an aluminium BS 40 footer|Hi Russ... seems to me that from the replies there is no downside to a Swain 36 being made with aluminum. Just wondering though, if there are any out there and if so....you could always get in touch as part of your due diligence stage. ...Gary --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "smithconsulting41" wrote: > > I am in the preparation stage of building an aluminium BS and have done lots of research, but one of my good freinds who has a 36 steel BS suggested putting my idea on the site to let you kick around a little with the intent that the end results would give my some deeper insight of the project ahead of me. > > Russell > | 21288|20944|2009-10-04 16:05:16|sunbear|Re: Turnbuckles|Martin: Wescos web site (Vancouver) www.wescovan.com Includes a downloadable catalogue and a toll free number. I bought all my stuff from them in Vancouver. Handy reference. MarkH --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "prairiemaidca" wrote: > > Hi Brent; On the turnbuckles. Would the 5/8th size that you purchased in Campbell River be suitalble for my 36ft. or do you recomend a different size. Also how much take up do those buckles have? Thanks: Martin (Prairie Maid) > | 21289|21256|2009-10-05 00:27:40|Aaron Williams|Re: building an aluminium BS 40 footer|Russ There are several photos in the album section and there have been many discussions about Steal verses Aluminun in the past, since they have a tendancy to get ugly its better to read all of them and descide for yourself. I can weld damn neer the crack of dawn but some things are better with the KISS method. Aaron in Alaska --- On Sun, 10/4/09, GP wrote: From: GP Subject: [origamiboats] Re: building an aluminium BS 40 footer To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, October 4, 2009, 11:45 AM   Hi Russ... seems to me that from the replies there is no downside to a Swain 36 being made with aluminum. Just wondering though, if there are any out there and if so....you could always get in touch as part of your due diligence stage. ...Gary --- In origamiboats@ yahoogroups. com, "smithconsulting41" wrote: > > I am in the preparation stage of building an aluminium BS and have done lots of research, but one of my good freinds who has a 36 steel BS suggested putting my idea on the site to let you kick around a little with the intent that the end results would give my some deeper insight of the project ahead of me. > > Russell > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 21290|21256|2009-10-05 00:52:26|Shane Duncan|transverse moment of inertia for BS mast|Brent do you have the transverse moment of inertia in mm^4  or the dimension of a steel mast cross section for a single spreader masthead mast for the Brent Swain 31 I can’t find these figures in the design or your book or in previous threads for the 31 and I really need them to calculate my mast X section plus I’m keen on going sailing now I finally have her in the water   Cheers shane __________________________________________________________________________________ Get more done like never before with Yahoo!7 Mail. Learn more: http://au.overview.mail.yahoo.com/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]| 21291|21270|2009-10-05 07:15:53|audeojude|Re: cheap GPS primer please|Gary, you can download the maps directly from NOAA.. they have them in two different versions and I forget which one seaclearII uses.. however i belive seaclearII has documentation that tells you what kind of maps you can use and how to add them to it so it can see them. I remember doing it.. just not the details off hand. Their is a procedure for doing it. It is a little more work than just downloading the maps to the correct directory. scott --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "GP" wrote: > > Scott... thanks for that... my now grown and working kids gave me one of those small computers for Christmas last year. I would like to do the same thing. Perhaps someone out there might know where digital charts are available that will run with Sea Clear... > > Gary > | 21292|21256|2009-10-05 08:01:46|smithconsulting41|Re: building an aluminium BS 40 footer|Thanks for your input guys. I guess it will evidently come down to my decision in the end. I operate a small fabrication/custom machine building shop which is very well equiped to handle most welding and machining process for steel, stainless and aluminium, so that is really not my concern. I was asking more about the building process. The differences if any between the two. eg. boat weight and ballast, standing rigging, mounting the keels and skeg to the hull things like that. Russell --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Aaron Williams wrote: > > Russ > There are several photos in the album section and there have been many discussions about Steal verses Aluminun in the past, since they have a tendancy to get ugly its better to read all of them and descide for yourself. I can weld damn neer the crack of dawn but some things are better with the KISS method. > Aaron in Alaska > > --- On Sun, 10/4/09, GP wrote: > > > From: GP > Subject: [origamiboats] Re: building an aluminium BS 40 footer > To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > Date: Sunday, October 4, 2009, 11:45 AM > > >   > > > > Hi Russ... seems to me that from the replies there is no downside to a Swain 36 being made with aluminum. Just wondering though, if there are any out there and if so....you could always get in touch as part of your due diligence stage. > > ...Gary > > --- In origamiboats@ yahoogroups. com, "smithconsulting41" wrote: > > > > I am in the preparation stage of building an aluminium BS and have done lots of research, but one of my good freinds who has a 36 steel BS suggested putting my idea on the site to let you kick around a little with the intent that the end results would give my some deeper insight of the project ahead of me. > > > > Russell > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > | 21293|21256|2009-10-05 10:28:21|Carl Anderson|Re: building an aluminium BS 40 footer|Russell, If you have the time to invest in talking to someone who has built several large (bigger than 45 foot) aluminum origami boats (2 beautiful sailboats @50' & one very nice motor sailor @45') you should talk to Ken Splett who lives near Sooke in Beecher Bay. He might be reachable via the telephone. Contact me directly if you would a possible number. Cheers, Carl sv-mom.com smithconsulting41 wrote: > > > Thanks for your input guys. I guess it will evidently come down to my > decision in the end. I operate a small fabrication/custom machine > building shop which is very well equiped to handle most welding and > machining process for steel, stainless and aluminium, so that is really > not my concern. I was asking more about the building process. The > differences if any between the two. eg. boat weight and ballast, > standing rigging, mounting the keels and skeg to the hull things like that. > > Russell > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > , Aaron Williams wrote: > > > > Russ > > There are several photos in the album section and there have been > many discussions about Steal verses Aluminun in the past, since they > have a tendancy to get ugly its better to read all of them and descide > for yourself. I can weld damn neer the crack of dawn but some things are > better with the KISS method. > > Aaron in Alaska > > > > --- On Sun, 10/4/09, GP wrote: > > > > > > From: GP > > Subject: [origamiboats] Re: building an aluminium BS 40 footer > > To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > Date: Sunday, October 4, 2009, 11:45 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Russ... seems to me that from the replies there is no downside to > a Swain 36 being made with aluminum. Just wondering though, if there are > any out there and if so....you could always get in touch as part of your > due diligence stage. > > > > ...Gary > > > > --- In origamiboats@ yahoogroups. com, "smithconsulting41" > wrote: > > > > > > I am in the preparation stage of building an aluminium BS and have > done lots of research, but one of my good freinds who has a 36 steel BS > suggested putting my idea on the site to let you kick around a little > with the intent that the end results would give my some deeper insight > of the project ahead of me. > > > > > > Russell > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > | 21294|21256|2009-10-05 12:57:36|smithconsulting41|Re: building an aluminium BS 40 footer|Carl, Thanks very much, and yes I would certainly appreciate a phone number if you have it. Russell --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Carl Anderson wrote: > > Russell, > > If you have the time to invest in talking to someone who has built > several large (bigger than 45 foot) aluminum origami boats (2 beautiful > sailboats @50' & one very nice motor sailor @45') you should talk to Ken > Splett who lives near Sooke in Beecher Bay. > > He might be reachable via the telephone. > Contact me directly if you would a possible number. > > Cheers, > Carl > sv-mom.com > > > > smithconsulting41 wrote: > > > > > > Thanks for your input guys. I guess it will evidently come down to my > > decision in the end. I operate a small fabrication/custom machine > > building shop which is very well equiped to handle most welding and > > machining process for steel, stainless and aluminium, so that is really > > not my concern. I was asking more about the building process. The > > differences if any between the two. eg. boat weight and ballast, > > standing rigging, mounting the keels and skeg to the hull things like that. > > > > Russell > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > , Aaron Williams wrote: > > > > > > Russ > > > There are several photos in the album section and there have been > > many discussions about Steal verses Aluminun in the past, since they > > have a tendancy to get ugly its better to read all of them and descide > > for yourself. I can weld damn neer the crack of dawn but some things are > > better with the KISS method. > > > Aaron in Alaska > > > > > > --- On Sun, 10/4/09, GP wrote: > > > > > > > > > From: GP > > > Subject: [origamiboats] Re: building an aluminium BS 40 footer > > > To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > > Date: Sunday, October 4, 2009, 11:45 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Russ... seems to me that from the replies there is no downside to > > a Swain 36 being made with aluminum. Just wondering though, if there are > > any out there and if so....you could always get in touch as part of your > > due diligence stage. > > > > > > ...Gary > > > > > > --- In origamiboats@ yahoogroups. com, "smithconsulting41" > > wrote: > > > > > > > > I am in the preparation stage of building an aluminium BS and have > > done lots of research, but one of my good freinds who has a 36 steel BS > > suggested putting my idea on the site to let you kick around a little > > with the intent that the end results would give my some deeper insight > > of the project ahead of me. > > > > > > > > Russell > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > | 21295|21280|2009-10-05 15:00:38|brentswain38|Re: Bow roller|Use what you have . 5/8th is definitley over kill, but wont hurt anything. It is a small amount of extra weight comnpared to your anchors, and chain. --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "jpronk1" wrote: > > I'm still building small parts for my boat. I was going to get started on the bow roller and was wondering if 5/8" stainless steel plate would be over kill and should I go with 1/2"instead? > Thank you, > James > | 21296|21256|2009-10-05 15:07:05|brentswain38|Re: building an aluminium BS 40 footer|Ercan built one in Nanaimo, which was moved to Richmond then sold.I don't know where it is now. Ken Splett built a 40 out of aluminium, which is currently cruising the South Pacific. She's known to sail very quickly. One could move the centreline on the loftings 3 inches closer to the chine to reduce the volume and displacement for aluminium, but people who have said they should have left it in the same place, to increase the carrying capacity for all the junk and extra weight one moves aboard when living aboard full time. Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "GP" wrote: > > Hi Russ... seems to me that from the replies there is no downside to a Swain 36 being made with aluminum. Just wondering though, if there are any out there and if so....you could always get in touch as part of your due diligence stage. > > ...Gary > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "smithconsulting41" wrote: > > > > I am in the preparation stage of building an aluminium BS and have done lots of research, but one of my good freinds who has a 36 steel BS suggested putting my idea on the site to let you kick around a little with the intent that the end results would give my some deeper insight of the project ahead of me. > > > > Russell > > > | 21297|20944|2009-10-05 15:09:20|brentswain38|Re: Turnbuckles|The 5/8th are perfect for the 36. They have also been used for the 40. I have never heard of any failing. I've used them for the last three boats and 37 years with no problems. --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "sunbear" wrote: > > > > Martin: > Wescos web site (Vancouver) www.wescovan.com Includes a downloadable catalogue and a toll free number. I bought all my stuff from them in Vancouver. Handy reference. > MarkH > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "prairiemaidca" wrote: > > > > Hi Brent; On the turnbuckles. Would the 5/8th size that you purchased in Campbell River be suitalble for my 36ft. or do you recomend a different size. Also how much take up do those buckles have? Thanks: Martin (Prairie Maid) > > > | 21298|21203|2009-10-05 15:12:20|brentswain38|Re: Aluminium mast for a BS31_Celebration|It's a bit on the light and short side. I'd consider going a couple of feet higher on my rig, but I live in light airs BC, where we can go months without any decent wind. --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Ralph" wrote: > > Shane, > > congratulations with your boat in the water. Thanks for sharing. > > I decided to go for the 36 in stead of the 31; less chance that the crew will complain about lack of interior space and higher resale price. > > All the best, > Ralph > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Shane Duncan wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > I can buy a good conditioned aluminium mast > > that came off a 36 foot fibreglass yacht > > 160mm x 110 mm by 3.5mm wall thickness 12m long > > Would this be OK for a BS 31? > > or is it on the light side? > > good second hand masts are very hard to come by > > on the west coast of Australia > > Cheers > > shane > > > > > > __________________________________________________________________________________ > > Get more done like never before with Yahoo!7 Mail. > > Learn more: http://au.overview.mail.yahoo.com/ > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > | 21299|21256|2009-10-05 15:19:01|brentswain38|transverse moment of inertia for BS mast|The only steel masts put on the 31 were 5 inch diameter with a 11 guage wall, a bit heavy, but the owners were very happy with them. One went to 42 feet and was happy with it. Using scarfs instead of sleeves reduces the weight considerably. To make a scarf, cut the scarf on one side, then take a piece of half inch plate and grind the scarf until it fits the plate perfectly, with no daylight showing thru. Rubbing a rusy piece of plate on the scarf marks the high points with rust.Then wrap a piece of cardboard around it and grind the scarf shape into the edge of the cardboard. This becomes the pattern for the other half. Grind a 45 on one edge for full weld penetration with 6011. With a 2 to 1 scarf, you only need 50% weld strength to get 100% strength in the joint. --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Shane Duncan wrote: > > > > > > Brent > do you have the transverse moment of inertia in mm^4 >  or the dimension of a steel mast cross section > for a single spreader masthead mast for the Brent Swain 31 > I can’t find these figures in the design or your book or in previous threads for the 31 > and I really need them to calculate my mast X section plus I’m keen on going sailing > now I finally have her in the water >  > Cheers > shane > > > __________________________________________________________________________________ > Get more done like never before with Yahoo!7 Mail. > Learn more: http://au.overview.mail.yahoo.com/ > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > | 21300|21300|2009-10-05 20:37:05|ric|silicone exhaust hose pipe|Brent I read earlier that you were using silicone hose pipe for your dry exhaust. As I remember you had it connected about 1 foot from your water cooled exhaust manifold.May I ask; 1.How is it performing? 2.What are the specifics of the particular hose you are using? Currently I am running a Nissan TD27 (51hp) with dry exhaust using flexible ss connecting pipe and with keel cooling. regards pol| 21301|21301|2009-10-05 23:06:42|mickeyolaf|Harken is having a Winch Sale|Harken has redesigned their winch line. The are selling off their old stock. Sizes 32 to 53. Example: a 44 that was $1512 MSRP is now $769 CDN. Almost distributor price. If u're gonna use new store bought winches and u don't have access to wholesale, not bad prices.| 21302|21302|2009-10-06 00:10:31|steve|Sailing Vids|First attempt at all this techno-wizardry. Video-editing might be the next consideration. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ZdpCvb9dIQ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NCejnfT7YU8 or a windward sequence near Blunden Harbour. Maybe tomorrow. Done with a little Olympus Stylus waterproof.| 21303|21300|2009-10-06 15:17:29|brentswain38|Re: silicone exhaust hose pipe|I haven't used it for the exhuast yet, but simply have a piece hose clamped on the metal exhuast pipe to try it out. It's been there for a year and hasn't shown any sign of burning yet. --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "ric" wrote: > > Brent I read earlier that you were using silicone hose pipe for your dry exhaust. As I remember you had it connected about 1 foot from your water cooled exhaust manifold.May I ask; > > 1.How is it performing? > 2.What are the specifics of the particular hose you are using? > > Currently I am running a Nissan TD27 (51hp) with dry exhaust using flexible ss connecting pipe and with keel cooling. > > > > regards pol > | 21304|21203|2009-10-06 15:20:25|brentswain38|Re: Aluminium mast for a BS31|It' long enough , a bit on the kight side , but would work. One can stiffen a mast by pumping her full of foam,reducing the chances of a wall collapse. Put some plastic conduit in before foaming. --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Shane Duncan wrote: > > > > > > I can buy a good conditioned aluminium mast > that came off a 36 foot fibreglass yacht > 160mm x 110 mm by 3.5mm wall thickness 12m long > Would this be OK for a BS 31? > or is it on the light side? > good second hand masts are very hard to come by > on the west coast of Australia > Cheers > shane > > > __________________________________________________________________________________ > Get more done like never before with Yahoo!7 Mail. > Learn more: http://au.overview.mail.yahoo.com/ > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > | 21305|21300|2009-10-06 16:49:59|ric|Re: silicone exhaust hose pipe|Thank you Brent; However I am still unclear. Could you describe where in the system you have the hose and secondly what the specifics of the hose are? regards pol --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "brentswain38" wrote: > > I haven't used it for the exhuast yet, but simply have a piece hose clamped on the metal exhuast pipe to try it out. It's been there for a year and hasn't shown any sign of burning yet. > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "ric" wrote: > > > > Brent I read earlier that you were using silicone hose pipe for your dry exhaust. As I remember you had it connected about 1 foot from your water cooled exhaust manifold.May I ask; > > > > 1.How is it performing? > > 2.What are the specifics of the particular hose you are using? > > > > Currently I am running a Nissan TD27 (51hp) with dry exhaust using flexible ss connecting pipe and with keel cooling. > > > > > > > > regards pol > > > | 21306|21300|2009-10-06 17:02:16|brentswain38|Re: silicone exhaust hose pipe|In don't know the specifics of the hose . It's 1 7/8th ID blue silicone hose. I bought it at Cress in Campbell River . It is about a foot behind the engine . --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "ric" wrote: > > > Thank you Brent; > However I am still unclear. > Could you describe where in the system you have the hose and secondly what the specifics of the hose are? > > regards pol > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "brentswain38" wrote: > > > > I haven't used it for the exhuast yet, but simply have a piece hose clamped on the metal exhuast pipe to try it out. It's been there for a year and hasn't shown any sign of burning yet. > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "ric" wrote: > > > > > > Brent I read earlier that you were using silicone hose pipe for your dry exhaust. As I remember you had it connected about 1 foot from your water cooled exhaust manifold.May I ask; > > > > > > 1.How is it performing? > > > 2.What are the specifics of the particular hose you are using? > > > > > > Currently I am running a Nissan TD27 (51hp) with dry exhaust using flexible ss connecting pipe and with keel cooling. > > > > > > > > > > > > regards pol > > > > > > | 21307|21302|2009-10-07 00:21:15|Gord Schnell|Re: Sailing Vids|Nice Vids. Looks like "your Baby" "trucks right along! Good on You! Gord On 5-Oct-09, at 9:10 PM, steve wrote: > First attempt at all this techno-wizardry. Video-editing might be > the next consideration. > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ZdpCvb9dIQ > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NCejnfT7YU8 > > or a windward sequence near Blunden Harbour. Maybe tomorrow. > > Done with a little Olympus Stylus waterproof. > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 21308|21270|2009-10-07 00:35:27|theboilerflue|Re: cheap GPS primer please|Yah, thanks I figured it out... NOAA provides Raster Chart (NOAA calls them RNCs) which are just scanned copies of charts and Vector Charts (ENCs) which are have different layers of details for different resolutions. I found SeaClear uses Rastor charts (which are in BSB and KAP files) only but there's another program Called Polar View which is free (although not a gps program i think) and uses them both I like the look of the Raster ones better though. --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "audeojude" wrote: > > Gary, > you can download the maps directly from NOAA.. they have them in two different versions and I forget which one seaclearII uses.. however i belive seaclearII has documentation that tells you what kind of maps you can use and how to add them to it so it can see them. I remember doing it.. just not the details off hand. Their is a procedure for doing it. It is a little more work than just downloading the maps to the correct directory. > > scott > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "GP" wrote: > > > > Scott... thanks for that... my now grown and working kids gave me one of those small computers for Christmas last year. I would like to do the same thing. Perhaps someone out there might know where digital charts are available that will run with Sea Clear... > > > > Gary > > > | 21309|21256|2009-10-07 00:47:54|theboilerflue|Re: building an aluminium BS 40 footer|In fact if you're anywhere around Comox there are two of those boats at the marina right now RG Riggins the motorsailer and Pangaea one of the sailboats. --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Carl Anderson wrote: > > Russell, > > If you have the time to invest in talking to someone who has built > several large (bigger than 45 foot) aluminum origami boats (2 beautiful > sailboats @50' & one very nice motor sailor @45') you should talk to Ken > Splett who lives near Sooke in Beecher Bay. > > He might be reachable via the telephone. > Contact me directly if you would a possible number. > > Cheers, > Carl > sv-mom.com > > > > smithconsulting41 wrote: > > > > > > Thanks for your input guys. I guess it will evidently come down to my > > decision in the end. I operate a small fabrication/custom machine > > building shop which is very well equiped to handle most welding and > > machining process for steel, stainless and aluminium, so that is really > > not my concern. I was asking more about the building process. The > > differences if any between the two. eg. boat weight and ballast, > > standing rigging, mounting the keels and skeg to the hull things like that. > > > > Russell > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > , Aaron Williams wrote: > > > > > > Russ > > > There are several photos in the album section and there have been > > many discussions about Steal verses Aluminun in the past, since they > > have a tendancy to get ugly its better to read all of them and descide > > for yourself. I can weld damn neer the crack of dawn but some things are > > better with the KISS method. > > > Aaron in Alaska > > > > > > --- On Sun, 10/4/09, GP wrote: > > > > > > > > > From: GP > > > Subject: [origamiboats] Re: building an aluminium BS 40 footer > > > To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > > Date: Sunday, October 4, 2009, 11:45 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Russ... seems to me that from the replies there is no downside to > > a Swain 36 being made with aluminum. Just wondering though, if there are > > any out there and if so....you could always get in touch as part of your > > due diligence stage. > > > > > > ...Gary > > > > > > --- In origamiboats@ yahoogroups. com, "smithconsulting41" > > wrote: > > > > > > > > I am in the preparation stage of building an aluminium BS and have > > done lots of research, but one of my good freinds who has a 36 steel BS > > suggested putting my idea on the site to let you kick around a little > > with the intent that the end results would give my some deeper insight > > of the project ahead of me. > > > > > > > > Russell > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > | 21310|21203|2009-10-07 08:16:09|bertandjan|Re: Aluminium mast for a BS31|Enjoying the huge amount of info and opinions being shared, for sure. I bought a never used Isomat NG60 mast for a boat I never built...I'd sell it for $1500, the only problem for you Shane is that it's in the Great Lakes area ;o)... oh well...It might be a tad light for the BS31 also. Hope yours works out. Bert --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "brentswain38" wrote: > > It' long enough , a bit on the kight side , but would work. One can stiffen a mast by pumping her full of foam,reducing the chances of a wall collapse. Put some plastic conduit in before foaming. > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Shane Duncan wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > I can buy a good conditioned aluminium mast > > that came off a 36 foot fibreglass yacht > > 160mm x 110 mm by 3.5mm wall thickness 12m long > > Would this be OK for a BS 31? > > or is it on the light side? > > good second hand masts are very hard to come by > > on the west coast of Australia > > Cheers > > shane > > > > > > __________________________________________________________________________________ > > Get more done like never before with Yahoo!7 Mail. > > Learn more: http://au.overview.mail.yahoo.com/ > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > | 21311|21256|2009-10-07 08:25:59|smithconsulting41|Re: building an aluminium BS 40 footer|thanks for the info, but unfortunately I live in Peterborough Ontario. I did spend a great week in July on Gary's boat in the Comox area. Russell --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "theboilerflue" wrote: > > In fact if you're anywhere around Comox there are two of those boats at the marina right now RG Riggins the motorsailer and Pangaea one of the sailboats. > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Carl Anderson wrote: > > > > Russell, > > > > If you have the time to invest in talking to someone who has built > > several large (bigger than 45 foot) aluminum origami boats (2 beautiful > > sailboats @50' & one very nice motor sailor @45') you should talk to Ken > > Splett who lives near Sooke in Beecher Bay. > > > > He might be reachable via the telephone. > > Contact me directly if you would a possible number. > > > > Cheers, > > Carl > > sv-mom.com > > > > > > > > smithconsulting41 wrote: > > > > > > > > > Thanks for your input guys. I guess it will evidently come down to my > > > decision in the end. I operate a small fabrication/custom machine > > > building shop which is very well equiped to handle most welding and > > > machining process for steel, stainless and aluminium, so that is really > > > not my concern. I was asking more about the building process. The > > > differences if any between the two. eg. boat weight and ballast, > > > standing rigging, mounting the keels and skeg to the hull things like that. > > > > > > Russell > > > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > > , Aaron Williams wrote: > > > > > > > > Russ > > > > There are several photos in the album section and there have been > > > many discussions about Steal verses Aluminun in the past, since they > > > have a tendancy to get ugly its better to read all of them and descide > > > for yourself. I can weld damn neer the crack of dawn but some things are > > > better with the KISS method. > > > > Aaron in Alaska > > > > > > > > --- On Sun, 10/4/09, GP wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > From: GP > > > > Subject: [origamiboats] Re: building an aluminium BS 40 footer > > > > To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > > > Date: Sunday, October 4, 2009, 11:45 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Russ... seems to me that from the replies there is no downside to > > > a Swain 36 being made with aluminum. Just wondering though, if there are > > > any out there and if so....you could always get in touch as part of your > > > due diligence stage. > > > > > > > > ...Gary > > > > > > > > --- In origamiboats@ yahoogroups. com, "smithconsulting41" > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > I am in the preparation stage of building an aluminium BS and have > > > done lots of research, but one of my good freinds who has a 36 steel BS > > > suggested putting my idea on the site to let you kick around a little > > > with the intent that the end results would give my some deeper insight > > > of the project ahead of me. > > > > > > > > > > Russell > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > | 21312|21312|2009-10-07 15:06:52|jfpacuas|BC visit and scrounging mission|Hi All - I've been slowly building a BS 26 for a few years (lots of hardware built, keels, rudder, handrails built). A few life snags along the way, but I am back to it. I'll be driving from California back to Alaska shortly and I plan to make it a boat part scrounging mission. I will be looking for sails, rigging components, even lead, etc. all along the coast. I plan on 3-4 days in southern BC. I was wondering if any of you BS boat owners/builders are interested in showing off your boats. I only know of one complete BS boat in Alaska and I have photographed it so much its starting to blush whenever I get near it. It would be great to meet up with anyone who might be available sometime during Oct 19-22. Perhaps someone could lead me to where I might find a few Swain boats to get some ideas. I do practice proper harbor etiquette - I don't board a boat unless asked to! Also - are most BC harbors public of do they have restricted access? Thanks Paul| 21313|21312|2009-10-07 19:28:43|sunbear|Re: BC visit and scrounging mission|Some places in the Vancouver area that might be of interest--Popeyes in West Vancouver, Mariners Exchange Steveston (SW Richmond), ABC Scrap metals in Richmond. Popeye's Sailors Exchange - 604-990-1633 700 Copping Street , North Vancouver , BC V7M 3G6 A B C Traders Ltd - 604-278-1731 2980 No. 3 Road , Richmond , BC V6X 2B3 Couldn't find an address for the Mariners Exchange| 21314|21312|2009-10-07 19:33:12|Paul Cotter|Re: BC visit and scrounging mission|Thanks! I'll jot those spots down in my scrounge book. Cheers Paul On Oct 7, 2009, at 3:28 PM, sunbear wrote: > > Some places in the Vancouver area that might be of interest-- > Popeyes in West Vancouver, Mariners Exchange Steveston (SW > Richmond), ABC Scrap metals in Richmond. > Popeye's Sailors Exchange - 604-990-1633 > 700 Copping Street , North Vancouver , BC V7M 3G6 > A B C Traders Ltd - 604-278-1731 > 2980 No. 3 Road , Richmond , BC V6X 2B3 > Couldn't find an address for the Mariners Exchange > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 21315|21203|2009-10-07 23:48:08|Shane Duncan|Re: Aluminium mast for a BS31|Cheers Bert will post some pictures if I buy for around $1000 Aust  $850 US doesn’t have any standing rigging though probably going to go with the Galve wire over SS --- On Wed, 7/10/09, bertandjan wrote: From: bertandjan Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Aluminium mast for a BS31 To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Received: Wednesday, 7 October, 2009, 12:16 PM Enjoying the huge amount of info and opinions being shared, for sure. I bought a never used Isomat NG60 mast for a boat I never built...I'd sell it for $1500, the only problem for you Shane is that it's in the Great Lakes area ;o)... oh well...It might be a tad light for the BS31 also.   Hope yours works out. Bert  --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "brentswain38" wrote: > > It' long enough , a bit on the kight side , but would work. One can stiffen a mast by pumping her full of foam,reducing the chances of a wall collapse. Put some plastic conduit in before foaming. > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Shane Duncan wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > I can buy a good conditioned aluminium mast > > that came off a 36 foot fibreglass yacht > > 160mm x 110 mm by 3.5mm wall thickness     12m long > > Would this be OK for a BS 31? > >  or is it on the light side? > > good second hand masts are very hard to come by > > on the west coast of Australia > > Cheers > > shane > > > > > >       __________________________________________________________________________________ > > Get more done like never before with Yahoo!7 Mail. > > Learn more: http://au.overview.mail.yahoo.com/ > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > ------------------------------------ To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.comYahoo! Groups Links Send instant messages to your online friends http://au.messenger.yahoo.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 21316|21312|2009-10-08 04:55:12|theboilerflue|Re: BC visit and scrounging mission|there are some amazing used marine stores in the seattle check out Second Wave 3601 Greenwood Ave N, Seattle,WA it make popeyes and boater exchange look like small corner stores I imagine LA and te bay area would have similarly sized used marine shops --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "jfpacuas" wrote: > > Hi All - > > I've been slowly building a BS 26 for a few years (lots of hardware built, keels, rudder, handrails built). A few life snags along the way, but I am back to it. I'll be driving from California back to Alaska shortly and I plan to make it a boat part scrounging mission. I will be looking for sails, rigging components, even lead, etc. all along the coast. I plan on 3-4 days in southern BC. > > I was wondering if any of you BS boat owners/builders are interested in showing off your boats. I only know of one complete BS boat in Alaska and I have photographed it so much its starting to blush whenever I get near it. It would be great to meet up with anyone who might be available sometime during Oct 19-22. > > Perhaps someone could lead me to where I might find a few Swain boats to get some ideas. I do practice proper harbor etiquette - I don't board a boat unless asked to! > > Also - are most BC harbors public of do they have restricted access? > > Thanks > > Paul > | 21317|21312|2009-10-08 05:15:33|theboilerflue|Re: BC visit and scrounging mission|Also boater's exchange in Sydney http://www.theboaters-exchange.com/ ABC traders is really worth the trip they have lot's of full length SS pipes and rod and stuff like that enough for most detailing on a boat -totally unused, also there are two near the grain elevators in the lower east side near both on Powell and Glen/Vernon dr they are pretty much right next to each other, the eastern one has in the past had lots of restaurant type scrap - got twenty pounds of SS piano hinge once as well as fire extinguishers and beer kegs and other stuff that people will steal to sell tot he scrap dealer. theres another one just north of the 1st ave (almost underneath) overpass on the corner of vernon dr and grant st which is kinda hit and miss but it's a five minute drive form the other two --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "sunbear" wrote: > > > Some places in the Vancouver area that might be of interest--Popeyes in West Vancouver, Mariners Exchange Steveston (SW Richmond), ABC Scrap metals in Richmond. > Popeye's Sailors Exchange - 604-990-1633 > 700 Copping Street , North Vancouver , BC V7M 3G6 > A B C Traders Ltd - 604-278-1731 > 2980 No. 3 Road , Richmond , BC V6X 2B3 > Couldn't find an address for the Mariners Exchange > | 21318|21318|2009-10-08 23:49:25|Doug - SubmarineBoat.com|DIY Sand Blasting Pot - BIG one.|I got a 185 cfm compressor now, but they want $1200 for 300# sand blasting pots and hose in very used condition. I've seen post where folks build one from a propane tank, pipe fittings and hydraulic hose, and that's the kind of thing I'll looking for. But I'd like more info to go on. I'm hoping I can keep it under $600. Any body got any ideas, information, or photos that would help? Thanks Doug Jackson Tulsa Ok SubmarineBoat.com| 21319|21318|2009-10-09 00:52:29|Aaron Williams|Re: DIY Sand Blasting Pot - BIG one.|Doug PASandblasting@yahoogroups.com  This is a group I joined over a year ago and I can say the design that Rob has is great and can be built for far less than than anyone would believe. I built a small sand blast pot using an old propane tank (remove the valve and fill with water for 3 days before cutting the top off. Even Brent would be proud of this guys design. He does charge $10 to join but it was worth it. Aaron --- On Thu, 10/8/09, Doug - SubmarineBoat.com wrote: From: Doug - SubmarineBoat.com Subject: [origamiboats] DIY Sand Blasting Pot - BIG one. To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, October 8, 2009, 7:48 PM   I got a 185 cfm compressor now, but they want $1200 for 300# sand blasting pots and hose in very used condition. I've seen post where folks build one from a propane tank, pipe fittings and hydraulic hose, and that's the kind of thing I'll looking for. But I'd like more info to go on. I'm hoping I can keep it under $600. Any body got any ideas, information, or photos that would help? Thanks Doug Jackson Tulsa Ok SubmarineBoat. com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 21320|21318|2009-10-09 00:55:49|Aaron Williams|Re: DIY Sand Blasting Pot - BIG one.|wrong link try this http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PA_Sandblasting/ --- On Thu, 10/8/09, Aaron Williams wrote: From: Aaron Williams Subject: Re: [origamiboats] DIY Sand Blasting Pot - BIG one. To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, October 8, 2009, 8:52 PM   Doug PASandblasting@ yahoogroups. com  This is a group I joined over a year ago and I can say the design that Rob has is great and can be built for far less than than anyone would believe. I built a small sand blast pot using an old propane tank (remove the valve and fill with water for 3 days before cutting the top off. Even Brent would be proud of this guys design. He does charge $10 to join but it was worth it. Aaron --- On Thu, 10/8/09, Doug - SubmarineBoat. com wrote: From: Doug - SubmarineBoat. com Subject: [origamiboats] DIY Sand Blasting Pot - BIG one. To: origamiboats@ yahoogroups. com Date: Thursday, October 8, 2009, 7:48 PM   I got a 185 cfm compressor now, but they want $1200 for 300# sand blasting pots and hose in very used condition. I've seen post where folks build one from a propane tank, pipe fittings and hydraulic hose, and that's the kind of thing I'll looking for. But I'd like more info to go on. I'm hoping I can keep it under $600. Any body got any ideas, information, or photos that would help? Thanks Doug Jackson Tulsa Ok SubmarineBoat. com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 21321|21318|2009-10-09 01:01:57|Doug Jackson|Re: DIY Sand Blasting Pot - BIG one.|Aaron I've just been looking at the PABlasters. So those plans are good? Photos and suggested sizes, and materials, etc for a big pot? It's not that I'm that cheep. ....maybe I am... but I'd be pissed if they were short on detail. :) Thanks Doug ________________________________ From: Aaron Williams To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, October 8, 2009 11:52:23 PM Subject: Re: [origamiboats] DIY Sand Blasting Pot - BIG one. Doug PASandblasting@ yahoogroups. com This is a group I joined over a year ago and I can say the design that Rob has is great and can be built for far less than than anyone would believe. I built a small sand blast pot using an old propane tank (remove the valve and fill with water for 3 days before cutting the top off. Even Brent would be proud of this guys design. He does charge $10 to join but it was worth it. Aaron --- On Thu, 10/8/09, Doug - SubmarineBoat. com wrote: From: Doug - SubmarineBoat. com Subject: [origamiboats] DIY Sand Blasting Pot - BIG one. To: origamiboats@ yahoogroups. com Date: Thursday, October 8, 2009, 7:48 PM I got a 185 cfm compressor now, but they want $1200 for 300# sand blasting pots and hose in very used condition. I've seen post where folks build one from a propane tank, pipe fittings and hydraulic hose, and that's the kind of thing I'll looking for. But I'd like more info to go on. I'm hoping I can keep it under $600. Any body got any ideas, information, or photos that would help? Thanks Doug Jackson Tulsa Ok SubmarineBoat. com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 21323|21318|2009-10-09 12:34:33|Aaron Williams|Re: DIY Sand Blasting Pot - BIG one.|Doug The best detail is on the site a lot of people have built pot and I sure get the impression That they are happy with the results. Rob is a good moderator and responds to question quit well. I think you would like his site as well, as he would be interested in your ideas also I think any one of use building steel boat should check it out. I have agreed not post any of his designs on the web or else I would have posted a picture for you. I have  a 20 gal propane tank ( medium size tank) that hold about 40lbs of sand. I had a booth set up at one time with the siphon tube. 50% increece in performance. Aaron --- On Thu, 10/8/09, Doug Jackson wrote: From: Doug Jackson Subject: Re: [origamiboats] DIY Sand Blasting Pot - BIG one. To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, October 8, 2009, 9:01 PM   Aaron I've just been looking at the PABlasters. So those plans are good? Photos and suggested sizes, and materials, etc for a big pot? It's not that I'm that cheep. ....maybe I am... but I'd be pissed if they were short on detail. :) Thanks Doug ____________ _________ _________ __ From: Aaron Williams To: origamiboats@ yahoogroups. com Sent: Thursday, October 8, 2009 11:52:23 PM Subject: Re: [origamiboats] DIY Sand Blasting Pot - BIG one. Doug PASandblasting@ yahoogroups. com This is a group I joined over a year ago and I can say the design that Rob has is great and can be built for far less than than anyone would believe. I built a small sand blast pot using an old propane tank (remove the valve and fill with water for 3 days before cutting the top off. Even Brent would be proud of this guys design. He does charge $10 to join but it was worth it. Aaron --- On Thu, 10/8/09, Doug - SubmarineBoat. com wrote: From: Doug - SubmarineBoat. com Subject: [origamiboats] DIY Sand Blasting Pot - BIG one. To: origamiboats@ yahoogroups. com Date: Thursday, October 8, 2009, 7:48 PM I got a 185 cfm compressor now, but they want $1200 for 300# sand blasting pots and hose in very used condition. I've seen post where folks build one from a propane tank, pipe fittings and hydraulic hose, and that's the kind of thing I'll looking for. But I'd like more info to go on. I'm hoping I can keep it under $600. Any body got any ideas, information, or photos that would help? Thanks Doug Jackson Tulsa Ok SubmarineBoat. com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 21324|21312|2009-10-09 15:49:58|brentswain38|Re: BC visit and scrounging mission|Check out Boeing Surplus near Seattle, a great source of tools and materials. --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "theboilerflue" wrote: > > there are some amazing used marine stores in the seattle check out Second Wave 3601 Greenwood Ave N, Seattle,WA it make popeyes and boater exchange look like small corner stores I imagine LA and te bay area would have similarly sized used marine shops > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "jfpacuas" wrote: > > > > Hi All - > > > > I've been slowly building a BS 26 for a few years (lots of hardware built, keels, rudder, handrails built). A few life snags along the way, but I am back to it. I'll be driving from California back to Alaska shortly and I plan to make it a boat part scrounging mission. I will be looking for sails, rigging components, even lead, etc. all along the coast. I plan on 3-4 days in southern BC. > > > > I was wondering if any of you BS boat owners/builders are interested in showing off your boats. I only know of one complete BS boat in Alaska and I have photographed it so much its starting to blush whenever I get near it. It would be great to meet up with anyone who might be available sometime during Oct 19-22. > > > > Perhaps someone could lead me to where I might find a few Swain boats to get some ideas. I do practice proper harbor etiquette - I don't board a boat unless asked to! > > > > Also - are most BC harbors public of do they have restricted access? > > > > Thanks > > > > Paul > > > | 21325|21318|2009-10-09 16:00:17|brentswain38|Re: DIY Sand Blasting Pot - BIG one.|The best solution to the probelm is still to buy your plate all wheelabraded and primed with cold galv primer. Renting a big pot is second best. Beware of hoses that have had oil in them, including rented hoses. Some use oilers on them when used for air tools. They will spatter your steel with drops of oil, which will cause major paint problems later. Check the inside of hoses, and reject any which show oil. Beach sand works well , a bit dusty, but no need to buy sand. Just make sure it is bone dry, and sift it thru a window screen before using. --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Aaron Williams wrote: > > Doug > The best detail is on the site a lot of people have built pot and I sure get the impression That they are happy with the results. Rob is a good moderator and responds to question quit well. I think you would like his site as well, as he would be interested in your ideas also > I think any one of use building steel boat should check it out. I have agreed not post any of his designs on the web or else I would have posted a picture for you. I have a 20 gal propane tank ( medium size tank) that hold about 40lbs of sand. I had a booth set up at one time with the siphon tube. 50% increece in performance. > Aaron > > --- On Thu, 10/8/09, Doug Jackson wrote: > > > From: Doug Jackson > Subject: Re: [origamiboats] DIY Sand Blasting Pot - BIG one. > To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > Date: Thursday, October 8, 2009, 9:01 PM > > > > > > > Aaron > > I've just been looking at the PABlasters. So those plans are good? Photos and suggested sizes, and materials, etc for a big pot? It's not that I'm that cheep. ....maybe I am... but I'd be pissed if they were short on detail. :) > > Thanks > Doug > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > From: Aaron Williams > To: origamiboats@ yahoogroups. com > Sent: Thursday, October 8, 2009 11:52:23 PM > Subject: Re: [origamiboats] DIY Sand Blasting Pot - BIG one. > > Doug > PASandblasting@ yahoogroups. com This is a group I joined over a year ago and I can say the design that Rob has is great and can be built for far less than than anyone would believe. I built a small sand blast pot using an old propane tank (remove the valve and fill with water for 3 days before cutting the top off. Even Brent would be proud of this guys design. He does charge $10 to join but it was worth it. > Aaron > > --- On Thu, 10/8/09, Doug - SubmarineBoat. com wrote: > > From: Doug - SubmarineBoat. com > Subject: [origamiboats] DIY Sand Blasting Pot - BIG one. > To: origamiboats@ yahoogroups. com > Date: Thursday, October 8, 2009, 7:48 PM > > I got a 185 cfm compressor now, but they want $1200 for 300# sand blasting pots and hose in very used condition. I've seen post where folks build one from a propane tank, pipe fittings and hydraulic hose, and that's the kind of thing I'll looking for. But I'd like more info to go on. I'm hoping I can keep it under $600. Any body got any ideas, information, or photos that would help? > > Thanks > Doug Jackson > Tulsa Ok > SubmarineBoat. com > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > | 21326|21326|2009-10-09 16:37:49|avedelmar|BS 40|Hi Brent, I´m trying to get an idea of the overall cost of building a BS 40 and have a couple of questions (I´ve seen the materials list in the files section). What would be an appropriate length for the mast and boom? Also, what minimum engine size would you suggest? Thanks, Luis| 21327|21318|2009-10-10 00:20:41|Doug - SubmarineBoat.com|Re: DIY Sand Blasting Pot - BIG one.|Aaron you're right on target. I forked over my ten bucks and joined. One of the automatically sent emails was from a another skeptic that was thrilled with the modifications he had made to a 200+ cfm unit. So I've got what I need. Thanks Doug SubmarineBoat.com --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Aaron Williams wrote: > > Doug > The best detail is on the site a lot of people have built pot and I sure get the impression That they are happy with the results. Rob is a good moderator and responds to question quit well. I think you would like his site as well, as he would be interested in your ideas also > I think any one of use building steel boat should check it out. I have agreed not post any of his designs on the web or else I would have posted a picture for you. I have  a 20 gal propane tank ( medium size tank) that hold about 40lbs of sand. I had a booth set up at one time with the siphon tube. 50% increece in performance. > Aaron > > --- On Thu, 10/8/09, Doug Jackson wrote: > > > From: Doug Jackson > Subject: Re: [origamiboats] DIY Sand Blasting Pot - BIG one. > To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > Date: Thursday, October 8, 2009, 9:01 PM > > >   > > > > Aaron > > I've just been looking at the PABlasters. So those plans are good? Photos and suggested sizes, and materials, etc for a big pot? It's not that I'm that cheep. ....maybe I am... but I'd be pissed if they were short on detail. :) > > Thanks > Doug > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > From: Aaron Williams > To: origamiboats@ yahoogroups. com > Sent: Thursday, October 8, 2009 11:52:23 PM > Subject: Re: [origamiboats] DIY Sand Blasting Pot - BIG one. > > Doug > PASandblasting@ yahoogroups. com This is a group I joined over a year ago and I can say the design that Rob has is great and can be built for far less than than anyone would believe. I built a small sand blast pot using an old propane tank (remove the valve and fill with water for 3 days before cutting the top off. Even Brent would be proud of this guys design. He does charge $10 to join but it was worth it. > Aaron > > --- On Thu, 10/8/09, Doug - SubmarineBoat. com wrote: > > From: Doug - SubmarineBoat. com > Subject: [origamiboats] DIY Sand Blasting Pot - BIG one. > To: origamiboats@ yahoogroups. com > Date: Thursday, October 8, 2009, 7:48 PM > > I got a 185 cfm compressor now, but they want $1200 for 300# sand blasting pots and hose in very used condition. I've seen post where folks build one from a propane tank, pipe fittings and hydraulic hose, and that's the kind of thing I'll looking for. But I'd like more info to go on. I'm hoping I can keep it under $600. Any body got any ideas, information, or photos that would help? > > Thanks > Doug Jackson > Tulsa Ok > SubmarineBoat. com > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > | 21328|21318|2009-10-10 01:56:25|Aaron Williams|Re: DIY Sand Blasting Pot - BIG one.|Doug I am glad I could help. I figured I would use the small pot I built for clean up on my boat when I finely get ready to paint. Aaron --- On Fri, 10/9/09, Doug - SubmarineBoat.com wrote: From: Doug - SubmarineBoat.com Subject: [origamiboats] Re: DIY Sand Blasting Pot - BIG one. To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, October 9, 2009, 8:20 PM   Aaron you're right on target. I forked over my ten bucks and joined. One of the automatically sent emails was from a another skeptic that was thrilled with the modifications he had made to a 200+ cfm unit. So I've got what I need. Thanks Doug SubmarineBoat. com --- In origamiboats@ yahoogroups. com, Aaron Williams wrote: > > Doug > The best detail is on the site a lot of people have built pot and I sure get the impression That they are happy with the results. Rob is a good moderator and responds to question quit well. I think you would like his site as well, as he would be interested in your ideas also > I think any one of use building steel boat should check it out. I have agreed not post any of his designs on the web or else I would have posted a picture for you. I have  a 20 gal propane tank ( medium size tank) that hold about 40lbs of sand. I had a booth set up at one time with the siphon tube. 50% increece in performance. > Aaron > > --- On Thu, 10/8/09, Doug Jackson wrote: > > > From: Doug Jackson > Subject: Re: [origamiboats] DIY Sand Blasting Pot - BIG one. > To: origamiboats@ yahoogroups. com > Date: Thursday, October 8, 2009, 9:01 PM > > >   > > > > Aaron > > I've just been looking at the PABlasters. So those plans are good? Photos and suggested sizes, and materials, etc for a big pot? It's not that I'm that cheep. ....maybe I am... but I'd be pissed if they were short on detail. :) > > Thanks > Doug > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > From: Aaron Williams > To: origamiboats@ yahoogroups. com > Sent: Thursday, October 8, 2009 11:52:23 PM > Subject: Re: [origamiboats] DIY Sand Blasting Pot - BIG one. > > Doug > PASandblasting@ yahoogroups. com This is a group I joined over a year ago and I can say the design that Rob has is great and can be built for far less than than anyone would believe. I built a small sand blast pot using an old propane tank (remove the valve and fill with water for 3 days before cutting the top off. Even Brent would be proud of this guys design. He does charge $10 to join but it was worth it. > Aaron > > --- On Thu, 10/8/09, Doug - SubmarineBoat. com wrote: > > From: Doug - SubmarineBoat. com > Subject: [origamiboats] DIY Sand Blasting Pot - BIG one. > To: origamiboats@ yahoogroups. com > Date: Thursday, October 8, 2009, 7:48 PM > > I got a 185 cfm compressor now, but they want $1200 for 300# sand blasting pots and hose in very used condition. I've seen post where folks build one from a propane tank, pipe fittings and hydraulic hose, and that's the kind of thing I'll looking for. But I'd like more info to go on. I'm hoping I can keep it under $600. Any body got any ideas, information, or photos that would help? > > Thanks > Doug Jackson > Tulsa Ok > SubmarineBoat. com > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 21329|21329|2009-10-12 21:57:36|sunbear|New Book Index|Got this from another boat discussion group. Brent and Alex might want to add their work to it?? MarkH "We have put together a list of boatbuilding and boat design books, films and magazines. Some of the books are obscure and will be hard to find, but we have made the index as comphrensive as possible. There is bound to something in the index you have never heard of. If we have missed an item please let us know by email to mikeduckboatman@... Here is the link http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/r/bibliography.htm Sorry if you get this more than once. I have put the news in a few places. Mike"| 21330|21326|2009-10-13 01:06:11|aaron riis|surplus center diesels|Hi all, considering the inexpensive basic yanmars or kubotas, no transmissions, but for that price, you would probably still come out ahead. does anyone have any experience marinizing one of these, also can disarming the governor mean that these engines can be run at any speed under redlining?   Aaron                                                                 --- On Fri, 10/9/09, avedelmar wrote: From: avedelmar Subject: [origamiboats] BS 40 To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Received: Friday, October 9, 2009, 1:36 PM   Hi Brent, I´m trying to get an idea of the overall cost of building a BS 40 and have a couple of questions (I´ve seen the materials list in the files section). What would be an appropriate length for the mast and boom? Also, what minimum engine size would you suggest? Thanks, Luis __________________________________________________________________ Make your browsing faster, safer, and easier with the new Internet Explorer® 8. Optimized for Yahoo! Get it Now for Free! at http://downloads.yahoo.com/ca/internetexplorer/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 21331|21326|2009-10-13 02:57:36|David Frantz|Re: surplus center diesels|I've looked at those diesels and find them interesting to say the least. I would think the easy way to put them to work would be to drive a generator. Finding and adapting a gearbox & other hardware would be more work. As to running without a govener I must ask why? Besides the prospects of engine damage, diesels have an ideal operating range for the design of the engine. I never sat an engine up for Marine use so my comments are limited but I will say the use of closed loop cooling isn't much different than a engine with radiator. David A Frantz websterindustro@... Sent from my iPhone. On Oct 13, 2009, at 1:06 AM, aaron riis wrote: > > Hi all, considering the inexpensive basic yanmars or kubotas, no > transmissions, but for that price, you would probably still come out > ahead. does anyone have any experience marinizing one of these, also > can disarming the governor mean that these engines can be run at any > speed under redlining? Aaron > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Fri, 10/9/09, avedelmar wrote: > > > From: avedelmar > Subject: [origamiboats] BS 40 > To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > Received: Friday, October 9, 2009, 1:36 PM > > > > > > > Hi Brent, > > I´m trying to get an idea of the overall cost of building a BS 40 an > d have a couple of questions (I´ve seen the materials list in the fi > les section). What would be an appropriate length for the mast and b > oom? Also, what minimum engine size would you suggest? Thanks, > > Luis > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________________________ > Make your browsing faster, safer, and easier with the new Internet > Explorer® 8. Optimized for Yahoo! Get it Now for Free! at http://downloads.yahoo.com/ca/internetexplorer > / > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.comYahoo > ! Groups Links > > > | 21332|21318|2009-10-13 16:26:36|mr_lugnuts_2007|Re: DIY Sand Blasting Pot - BIG one.|I can't source out wheel abraded/primed in the central U.S. so I'm blasting. I'm building my blaster similar to this one; http://www.vintageprojects.com/metal-welding/SandBlaster.pdf My tank will be a 40 gallon hot water heater, the rest of the parts out of my "inventory". Using a big tank saves loading time. I may also add a vibrator if I have feeding problems-we'll see. My air source is a 3 stage Garder Denver with 6 inch jugs powered by a Ford 233. Your mileage my vary..... Andy --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Doug - SubmarineBoat.com" wrote: > > I got a 185 cfm compressor now, but they want $1200 for 300# sand blasting pots and hose in very used condition. I've seen post where folks build one from a propane tank, pipe fittings and hydraulic hose, and that's the kind of thing I'll looking for. But I'd like more info to go on. I'm hoping I can keep it under $600. Any body got any ideas, information, or photos that would help? > > Thanks > Doug Jackson > Tulsa Ok > SubmarineBoat.com > | 21333|21318|2009-10-13 16:52:41|Doug - SubmarineBoat.com|Re: DIY Sand Blasting Pot - BIG one.|Hello Andy That's a nicely drawn set of plans. The PABlaster uses a different setup on the lines to the gun and they claim it solves the clogging problem. I hope they are right. Might be worth the $10 look. Or we can compare notes after some trials. How central US are you? And what are you building? We're in Tulsa OK. Doug SubmarineBoat.com --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "mr_lugnuts_2007" wrote: > > > I can't source out wheel abraded/primed in the central U.S. so I'm blasting. I'm building my blaster similar to this one; > > http://www.vintageprojects.com/metal-welding/SandBlaster.pdf > > My tank will be a 40 gallon hot water heater, the rest of the parts out of my "inventory". Using a big tank saves loading time. I may also add a vibrator if I have feeding problems-we'll see. My air source is a 3 stage Garder Denver with 6 inch jugs powered by a Ford 233. Your mileage my vary..... > > Andy > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Doug - SubmarineBoat.com" wrote: > > > > I got a 185 cfm compressor now, but they want $1200 for 300# sand blasting pots and hose in very used condition. I've seen post where folks build one from a propane tank, pipe fittings and hydraulic hose, and that's the kind of thing I'll looking for. But I'd like more info to go on. I'm hoping I can keep it under $600. Any body got any ideas, information, or photos that would help? > > > > Thanks > > Doug Jackson > > Tulsa Ok > > SubmarineBoat.com > > > | 21334|21318|2009-10-13 17:03:19|mr_lugnuts_2007|Re: DIY Sand Blasting Pot - BIG one.|Denver CO, about as far away from salt water as you can get. Building a BS26. I will be single handing so I wanted the smallest steel boat that I could find. I've done a bit of blasting and I've found that shutting down the supply of sand while the air is still flowing helps prevent jams. Turning off the air supply while there's still sand in your lines tends to compact it and causes a clog. --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Doug - SubmarineBoat.com" wrote: > > Hello Andy > > That's a nicely drawn set of plans. The PABlaster uses a different setup on the lines to the gun and they claim it solves the clogging problem. I hope they are right. Might be worth the $10 look. Or we can compare notes after some trials. > > How central US are you? And what are you building? > > We're in Tulsa OK. > > Doug > SubmarineBoat.com > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "mr_lugnuts_2007" wrote: > > > > > > I can't source out wheel abraded/primed in the central U.S. so I'm blasting. I'm building my blaster similar to this one; > > > > http://www.vintageprojects.com/metal-welding/SandBlaster.pdf > > > > My tank will be a 40 gallon hot water heater, the rest of the parts out of my "inventory". Using a big tank saves loading time. I may also add a vibrator if I have feeding problems-we'll see. My air source is a 3 stage Garder Denver with 6 inch jugs powered by a Ford 233. Your mileage my vary..... > > > > Andy > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Doug - SubmarineBoat.com" wrote: > > > > > > I got a 185 cfm compressor now, but they want $1200 for 300# sand blasting pots and hose in very used condition. I've seen post where folks build one from a propane tank, pipe fittings and hydraulic hose, and that's the kind of thing I'll looking for. But I'd like more info to go on. I'm hoping I can keep it under $600. Any body got any ideas, information, or photos that would help? > > > > > > Thanks > > > Doug Jackson > > > Tulsa Ok > > > SubmarineBoat.com > > > > > > | 21335|21318|2009-10-13 17:49:45|Mark|Re: DIY Sand Blasting Pot - BIG one.|When sandblasting, be sure to use breathing protection, silica, rust and dust will cause lung problems.  Read about Silicosis. I've done blasting in the past and just want others to be aware of the dangers.     --- On Tue, 10/13/09, mr_lugnuts_2007 wrote: From: mr_lugnuts_2007 Subject: [origamiboats] Re: DIY Sand Blasting Pot - BIG one. To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, October 13, 2009, 3:26 PM   I can't source out wheel abraded/primed in the central U.S. so I'm blasting. I'm building my blaster similar to this one; http://www.vintagep rojects.com/ metal-welding/ SandBlaster. pdf My tank will be a 40 gallon hot water heater, the rest of the parts out of my "inventory". Using a big tank saves loading time. I may also add a vibrator if I have feeding problems-we' ll see. My air source is a 3 stage Garder Denver with 6 inch jugs powered by a Ford 233. Your mileage my vary..... Andy --- In origamiboats@ yahoogroups. com, "Doug - SubmarineBoat. com" wrote: > > I got a 185 cfm compressor now, but they want $1200 for 300# sand blasting pots and hose in very used condition. I've seen post where folks build one from a propane tank, pipe fittings and hydraulic hose, and that's the kind of thing I'll looking for. But I'd like more info to go on. I'm hoping I can keep it under $600. Any body got any ideas, information, or photos that would help? > > Thanks > Doug Jackson > Tulsa Ok > SubmarineBoat. com > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 21336|21326|2009-10-13 20:04:19|theboilerflue|Re: surplus center diesels|Well here's what I did for my non marine diesel. I bought a used 3 cylinder diesel model no. 3TNA72UJ which is the engine John Deere used in their 935 lawn tractors manufactured by Yanmar It's stamped JOHN DEERE (manufactured by Yanmar Marine Japan) I plugged in a Hurth 100 transmission and so far has worked well once i worked out a couple of bugs. I made up a frame from some 1 1/2" 1/4" angle iron onto which the engine and the transmission are bolted, I had to cut the bell housing out of the way a little bit to accommodate the (I don't know what these things are called so i'm making up a name) Spring-Plate which is two plates paralelle to each other with springs in between, the spring-plate bolts to the flywheel and the transmission fits into a toothed hole in the centre of the spring-plate. I used SS washers as shims to align the transmission to the engine the transmission then bolts to the shaft in the normal way through a flange. I'm skeg cooled and have a header tank that's about 2-3 gallons above the engine on the intake side, and I may at some point put in another tank tee'd in to the outlet side of the engine to act as an expansion tank and a place for air to escape. I have a 15 gallon fuel tank hung off the bottom side of the cockpit so it's gravity feed into the engine, the fuel filter housing has a priming pump built in as there for some reason is no priming pump on the engine. The exhaust is a dry exhaust which runs through one of those flexible stainless exhaust couplers (about a foot long) then 1 1/2 stainless pipe which runs up to the underside of the cockpit seat then down and out the transom and into the water, I put a SS union joint in the pipe so I can take it apart, It's wrapped with silicone exhaust pipe wrap I got at the auto parts dealer and some other wrap (thats not silicone I don't remember what it is) over top that was way cheaper that I got at Redden net in Campbell river. So far it's warm to the touch and hasn't melted the foam that is (one would think) way too close to where the pipe exits the transome. So far the only problems I've had with it are the vent in my tank was too low and I wasn't getting enough fuel to the engine. And there's a spring loaded threaded rod that controls the fuel limiting in the governor it's held in place by two nuts that are supposed to be turned in opposition two each other and locked in place these wiggled their way loose and made me take the whole fuel system apart and almost send the fuel pump in to get tested, since re-setting those nuts the engine has run beautifully. --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, David Frantz wrote: > > I've looked at those diesels and find them interesting to say the > least. I would think the easy way to put them to work would be to > drive a generator. Finding and adapting a gearbox & other hardware > would be more work. > > As to running without a govener I must ask why? Besides the > prospects of engine damage, diesels have an ideal operating range for > the design of the engine. > > I never sat an engine up for Marine use so my comments are limited but > I will say the use of closed loop cooling isn't much different than a > engine with radiator. > > David A Frantz > > websterindustro@... > Sent from my iPhone. > > On Oct 13, 2009, at 1:06 AM, aaron riis wrote: > > > > > Hi all, considering the inexpensive basic yanmars or kubotas, no > > transmissions, but for that price, you would probably still come out > > ahead. does anyone have any experience marinizing one of these, also > > can disarming the governor mean that these engines can be run at any > > speed under redlining? Aaron > > > > > > --- On Fri, 10/9/09, avedelmar wrote: > > > > > > From: avedelmar > > Subject: [origamiboats] BS 40 > > To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > Received: Friday, October 9, 2009, 1:36 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Brent, > > > > I´m trying to get an idea of the overall cost of building a BS 40 an > > d have a couple of questions (I´ve seen the materials list in the fi > > les section). What would be an appropriate length for the mast and b > > oom? Also, what minimum engine size would you suggest? Thanks, > > > > Luis > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________________________ > > Make your browsing faster, safer, and easier with the new Internet > > Explorer® 8. Optimized for Yahoo! Get it Now for Free! at http://downloads.yahoo.com/ca/internetexplorer > > / > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@... > > ! Groups Links > > > > > > > | 21337|21318|2009-10-13 20:15:41|theboilerflue|Re: DIY Sand Blasting Pot - BIG one.|The tank I used for my boat was a home build simular to this but with a lid that just dogged down with 3 bolts and a tapered "hopper style" bottom you could perhaps get around the flat bottom problem by mounting the pipe at on an angle and take the sand from the edge of the pipe cap instead of the middle. Also the hose had no shut off at the nozzle and since when doing your boat you are going to want another person to load the pot anyway it's easier to just have them shut it off at the pot, I just carried a wrench with me and banged on the hull when I wanted it to stop (the air stop, not the painful experience of sandblasting) It'll prevent a lot of clogs this way and also, as was already mentioned turn off the sand, then the air, reverse order when starting. --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "mr_lugnuts_2007" wrote: > > > I can't source out wheel abraded/primed in the central U.S. so I'm blasting. I'm building my blaster similar to this one; > > http://www.vintageprojects.com/metal-welding/SandBlaster.pdf > > My tank will be a 40 gallon hot water heater, the rest of the parts out of my "inventory". Using a big tank saves loading time. I may also add a vibrator if I have feeding problems-we'll see. My air source is a 3 stage Garder Denver with 6 inch jugs powered by a Ford 233. Your mileage my vary..... > > Andy > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Doug - SubmarineBoat.com" wrote: > > > > I got a 185 cfm compressor now, but they want $1200 for 300# sand blasting pots and hose in very used condition. I've seen post where folks build one from a propane tank, pipe fittings and hydraulic hose, and that's the kind of thing I'll looking for. But I'd like more info to go on. I'm hoping I can keep it under $600. Any body got any ideas, information, or photos that would help? > > > > Thanks > > Doug Jackson > > Tulsa Ok > > SubmarineBoat.com > > > | 21339|1416|2009-10-14 06:18:28|BrianC|Steel|Wondering where to order steel for my 31 in the Comox Valley area,looking for abraded zinc primed. I would assume it would come from Vancouver. Thanks Brian| 21340|1416|2009-10-14 22:51:25|theboilerflue|Re: Steel|A J Forsyth in Campbell river but yes they're really out of Vancouver 250-287-8841 2710 Vigar Road, Campbell River, BC, V9W6A3 Are you moving back here again? --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "BrianC" wrote: > > Wondering where to order steel for my 31 in the Comox Valley area,looking for abraded zinc primed. I would assume it would come from Vancouver. > Thanks > Brian > | 21341|1416|2009-10-15 01:08:17|Bob Wills|Re: Steel coatings|Has any one tryed purchasing non-abraded steel and sand blasting and zink coating before construction? Laying on the ground would seem a lot nicer than doing it inside a hull.   Has any one used galvanized steel? A frend of mine in Germany has a framless 10 meter sail boat that was made with this type of material and is twenty years old. The only problem he has had is in the keel were all the belge water would settle. The interior of the boat is not foamed and looks like new. I belive they supply this type of steel to people makeing warter tanks --- On Thu, 10/15/09, theboilerflue wrote: From: theboilerflue Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Steel To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, October 15, 2009, 2:50 AM   A J Forsyth in Campbell river but yes they're really out of Vancouver 250-287-8841 2710 Vigar Road, Campbell River, BC, V9W6A3 Are you moving back here again? --- In origamiboats@ yahoogroups. com, "BrianC" wrote: > > Wondering where to order steel for my 31 in the Comox Valley area,looking for abraded zinc primed. I would assume it would come from Vancouver. > Thanks > Brian > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 21342|1416|2009-10-15 07:27:15|BrianC|Re: Steel|Yes after a year of moving home and living on the east coast we have decided we are west coasters. We were able to build a nicer home here than we ever could afford out west and 5 acres to boot, but our quality of life has really suffered in to many ways to get into. "sailing season to short ,lack of entertainment,high tax , bad roads,poor health care ,miss the mountians, dirty air,fat hillbillys........ Anyway the house is up for sale and we are heading back west, I will be finishing up the rest of the small parts that I can move and will pull together the hull when I get back to the valley. Loking fwd to seeing you and your boat Take care Brian --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "theboilerflue" wrote: > > A J Forsyth in Campbell river but yes they're really out of Vancouver > 250-287-8841 > 2710 Vigar Road, Campbell River, BC, V9W6A3 > Are you moving back here again? > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "BrianC" wrote: > > > > Wondering where to order steel for my 31 in the Comox Valley area,looking for abraded zinc primed. I would assume it would come from Vancouver. > > Thanks > > Brian > > > | 21343|1416|2009-10-15 09:38:26|edward|Re: Steel coatings|Hi Bob, I bought untreated steel fabricated the components and then had it blasted. See the photos section folder 36' Fly for a photo of the blasting of one of the half hulls. The blasted components, cabin top sheet etc were then painted with Zinga. After welding the bits together the welds and any untreated bits were blasted before painting with Zinga. Regards, Ted| 21344|21326|2009-10-15 12:49:44|aaron riis|Re: surplus center diesels|Thanks for the info, just wondering if an engine that was made for a reefer unit or generator and at a constant rpm will tolerate a throttle, I would want to be sure before i bought the engine.  Aaron --- On Tue, 10/13/09, theboilerflue wrote: From: theboilerflue Subject: [origamiboats] Re: surplus center diesels To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Received: Tuesday, October 13, 2009, 5:02 PM   Well here's what I did for my non marine diesel. I bought a used 3 cylinder diesel model no. 3TNA72UJ which is the engine John Deere used in their 935 lawn tractors manufactured by Yanmar It's stamped JOHN DEERE (manufactured by Yanmar Marine Japan) I plugged in a Hurth 100 transmission and so far has worked well once i worked out a couple of bugs. I made up a frame from some 1 1/2" 1/4" angle iron onto which the engine and the transmission are bolted, I had to cut the bell housing out of the way a little bit to accommodate the (I don't know what these things are called so i'm making up a name) Spring-Plate which is two plates paralelle to each other with springs in between, the spring-plate bolts to the flywheel and the transmission fits into a toothed hole in the centre of the spring-plate. I used SS washers as shims to align the transmission to the engine the transmission then bolts to the shaft in the normal way through a flange. I'm skeg cooled and have a header tank that's about 2-3 gallons above the engine on the intake side, and I may at some point put in another tank tee'd in to the outlet side of the engine to act as an expansion tank and a place for air to escape. I have a 15 gallon fuel tank hung off the bottom side of the cockpit so it's gravity feed into the engine, the fuel filter housing has a priming pump built in as there for some reason is no priming pump on the engine. The exhaust is a dry exhaust which runs through one of those flexible stainless exhaust couplers (about a foot long) then 1 1/2 stainless pipe which runs up to the underside of the cockpit seat then down and out the transom and into the water, I put a SS union joint in the pipe so I can take it apart, It's wrapped with silicone exhaust pipe wrap I got at the auto parts dealer and some other wrap (thats not silicone I don't remember what it is) over top that was way cheaper that I got at Redden net in Campbell river. So far it's warm to the touch and hasn't melted the foam that is (one would think) way too close to where the pipe exits the transome. So far the only problems I've had with it are the vent in my tank was too low and I wasn't getting enough fuel to the engine. And there's a spring loaded threaded rod that controls the fuel limiting in the governor it's held in place by two nuts that are supposed to be turned in opposition two each other and locked in place these wiggled their way loose and made me take the whole fuel system apart and almost send the fuel pump in to get tested, since re-setting those nuts the engine has run beautifully. --- In origamiboats@ yahoogroups. com, David Frantz wrote: > > I've looked at those diesels and find them interesting to say the > least. I would think the easy way to put them to work would be to > drive a generator. Finding and adapting a gearbox & other hardware > would be more work. > > As to running without a govener I must ask why? Besides the > prospects of engine damage, diesels have an ideal operating range for > the design of the engine. > > I never sat an engine up for Marine use so my comments are limited but > I will say the use of closed loop cooling isn't much different than a > engine with radiator. > > David A Frantz > > websterindustro@ ... > Sent from my iPhone. > > On Oct 13, 2009, at 1:06 AM, aaron riis wrote: > > > > > Hi all, considering the inexpensive basic yanmars or kubotas, no > > transmissions, but for that price, you would probably still come out > > ahead. does anyone have any experience marinizing one of these, also > > can disarming the governor mean that these engines can be run at any > > speed under redlining? Aaron > > > > > > --- On Fri, 10/9/09, avedelmar wrote: > > > > > > From: avedelmar > > Subject: [origamiboats] BS 40 > > To: origamiboats@ yahoogroups. com > > Received: Friday, October 9, 2009, 1:36 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Brent, > > > > I´m trying to get an idea of the overall cost of building a BS 40 an > > d have a couple of questions (I´ve seen the materials list in the fi > > les section). What would be an appropriate length for the mast and b > > oom? Also, what minimum engine size would you suggest? Thanks, > > > > Luis > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _ > > Make your browsing faster, safer, and easier with the new Internet > > Explorer® 8. Optimized for Yahoo! Get it Now for Free! at http://downloads. yahoo.com/ ca/internetexplo rer > > / > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- ------ > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@ yahoogroups. com > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats- unsubscribe@ ... > > ! Groups Links > > > > > > > __________________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Canada Toolbar: Search from anywhere on the web, and bookmark your favourite sites. Download it now http://ca.toolbar.yahoo.com. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 21345|1416|2009-10-15 14:07:08|Stymied|Re: Steel coatings|Maybe this is obvious to everyone but me, but how did you turn the hull half over? Or maybe you built it "inverted" in the first place (e.g. dart in the air rather than on the ground) but that seems like a very difficult way to do it? --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "edward" wrote: > > Hi Bob, > > I bought untreated steel fabricated the components and then had it blasted. See the photos section folder 36' Fly for a photo of the blasting of one of the half hulls. The blasted components, cabin top sheet etc were then painted with Zinga. After welding the bits together the welds and any untreated bits were blasted before painting with Zinga. > > Regards, > Ted > | 21346|21326|2009-10-15 14:55:45|Stymied|Re: surplus center diesels|> engine that was made for a reefer unit or generator A lot of reefers used 27 hp Isuzu C201s. There are lots out there and they are cheap but don't buy one til you work out how you are going to handle the manifolds in a marine application. If you can figure out how to build & mount a stainless exhaust manifold on a C201 you are a better man than me.| 21347|1416|2009-10-16 03:45:52|edward|Re: Steel coatings|Hi Stymied, We used a front end loader to turn it over. We had to move it because of the dust. You can turn things over by anchoring one side and winching on the other. The anchoring lines and winch all connected to suitable strong points such as barn stanchions or trees. Regards, Ted --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Stymied" wrote: > > > Maybe this is obvious to everyone but me, but how did you turn the hull half over? Or maybe you built it "inverted" in the first place (e.g. dart in the air rather than on the ground) but that seems like a very difficult way to do it? > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "edward" wrote: > > > > Hi Bob, > > > > I bought untreated steel fabricated the components and then had it blasted. See the photos section folder 36' Fly for a photo of the blasting of one of the half hulls. The blasted components, cabin top sheet etc were then painted with Zinga. After welding the bits together the welds and any untreated bits were blasted before painting with Zinga. > > > > Regards, > > Ted > > > | 21349|1416|2009-10-16 12:06:41|Carl Anderson|Re: Steel coatings|I would think that you wouldn't have to turn over the hull at all. The MOST important surface to get right in regards to surface finish is the INTERIOR side of the steel. That would be the top surface of the plate as it sits on the ground. Also no need to sandblast the entire plate just wait until you have made your cuts and then blast and prime the resultant pieces (that would be the hull sides, skeg and transom as I recall). Do the same with the deck & cabin pieces (blast & prime after cutting to size) and this will only leave you with the cabin top as the most difficult piece to work with as it is quite large & must be turned over to get the finished surface on the inside of the boat. After you have the hull together then you can sandblast and prime the outside surface "all-at-once" and proceed to the detailing. Just my thoughts on doing it without the abraded & primed steel. Carl sv-mom.com edward wrote: > > > Hi Stymied, > > We used a front end loader to turn it over. We had to move it because of > the dust. You can turn things over by anchoring one side and winching on > the other. The anchoring lines and winch all connected to suitable > strong points such as barn stanchions or trees. > > Regards, > Ted > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > , "Stymied" > wrote: > > > > > > Maybe this is obvious to everyone but me, but how did you turn the > hull half over? Or maybe you built it "inverted" in the first place > (e.g. dart in the air rather than on the ground) but that seems like a > very difficult way to do it? > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > , "edward" wrote: > > > > > > Hi Bob, > > > > > > I bought untreated steel fabricated the components and then had it > blasted. See the photos section folder 36' Fly for a photo of the > blasting of one of the half hulls. The blasted components, cabin top > sheet etc were then painted with Zinga. After welding the bits together > the welds and any untreated bits were blasted before painting with Zinga. > > > > > > Regards, > > > Ted > > > > > > | 21350|21326|2009-10-16 17:13:15|brentswain38|Re: surplus center diesels|Best put your header tank on the outlet from the engine, so if you accidentally run her dry you won't get an instant airlock in your cooling system. --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "theboilerflue" wrote: > > Well here's what I did for my non marine diesel. > I bought a used 3 cylinder diesel model no. 3TNA72UJ which is the engine John Deere used in their 935 lawn tractors manufactured by Yanmar It's stamped JOHN DEERE (manufactured by Yanmar Marine Japan) > I plugged in a Hurth 100 transmission and so far has worked well once i worked out a couple of bugs. I made up a frame from some 1 1/2" 1/4" angle iron onto which the engine and the transmission are bolted, I had to cut the bell housing out of the way a little bit to accommodate the (I don't know what these things are called so i'm making up a name) Spring-Plate which is two plates paralelle to each other with springs in between, the spring-plate bolts to the flywheel and the transmission fits into a toothed hole in the centre of the spring-plate. I used SS washers as shims to align the transmission to the engine the transmission then bolts to the shaft in the normal way through a flange. I'm skeg cooled and have a header tank that's about 2-3 gallons above the engine on the intake side, and I may at some point put in another tank tee'd in to the outlet side of the engine to act as an expansion tank and a place for air to escape. I have a 15 gallon fuel tank hung off the bottom side of the cockpit so it's gravity feed into the engine, the fuel filter housing has a priming pump built in as there for some reason is no priming pump on the engine. The exhaust is a dry exhaust which runs through one of those flexible stainless exhaust couplers (about a foot long) then 1 1/2 stainless pipe which runs up to the underside of the cockpit seat then down and out the transom and into the water, I put a SS union joint in the pipe so I can take it apart, It's wrapped with silicone exhaust pipe wrap I got at the auto parts dealer and some other wrap (thats not silicone I don't remember what it is) over top that was way cheaper that I got at Redden net in Campbell river. So far it's warm to the touch and hasn't melted the foam that is (one would think) way too close to where the pipe exits the transome. > So far the only problems I've had with it are > the vent in my tank was too low and I wasn't getting enough fuel to the engine. And there's a spring loaded threaded rod that controls the fuel limiting in the governor it's held in place by two nuts that are supposed to be turned in opposition two each other and locked in place these wiggled their way loose and made me take the whole fuel system apart and almost send the fuel pump in to get tested, since re-setting those nuts the engine has run beautifully. > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, David Frantz wrote: > > > > I've looked at those diesels and find them interesting to say the > > least. I would think the easy way to put them to work would be to > > drive a generator. Finding and adapting a gearbox & other hardware > > would be more work. > > > > As to running without a govener I must ask why? Besides the > > prospects of engine damage, diesels have an ideal operating range for > > the design of the engine. > > > > I never sat an engine up for Marine use so my comments are limited but > > I will say the use of closed loop cooling isn't much different than a > > engine with radiator. > > > > David A Frantz > > > > websterindustro@ > > Sent from my iPhone. > > > > On Oct 13, 2009, at 1:06 AM, aaron riis wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi all, considering the inexpensive basic yanmars or kubotas, no > > > transmissions, but for that price, you would probably still come out > > > ahead. does anyone have any experience marinizing one of these, also > > > can disarming the governor mean that these engines can be run at any > > > speed under redlining? Aaron > > > > > > > > > --- On Fri, 10/9/09, avedelmar wrote: > > > > > > > > > From: avedelmar > > > Subject: [origamiboats] BS 40 > > > To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > > Received: Friday, October 9, 2009, 1:36 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Brent, > > > > > > I´m trying to get an idea of the overall cost of building a BS 40 an > > > d have a couple of questions (I´ve seen the materials list in the fi > > > les section). What would be an appropriate length for the mast and b > > > oom? Also, what minimum engine size would you suggest? Thanks, > > > > > > Luis > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________________________ > > > Make your browsing faster, safer, and easier with the new Internet > > > Explorer® 8. Optimized for Yahoo! Get it Now for Free! at http://downloads.yahoo.com/ca/internetexplorer > > > / > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@ > > > ! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > | 21351|1416|2009-10-16 17:16:22|brentswain38|Re: Steel|AJ Forsyth in Campbell River is our usual source. As they run a truck up the island regularly, delivery is usually free to Comox. --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "BrianC" wrote: > > Wondering where to order steel for my 31 in the Comox Valley area,looking for abraded zinc primed. I would assume it would come from Vancouver. > Thanks > Brian > | 21352|21326|2009-10-16 17:23:00|brentswain38|Re: surplus center diesels|Building a water cooled stainless manifold for my Isuzu was easy, just build the main part out of 1 1/2 inch stainless sch 40 pipe,then cut a slice out of one sized bigger pipe to clear the pipes coming out of the head, and weld it on watertight. The space between the two is for cooling water. On some diesels, like VW diesels they have made it far more complicated. --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Stymied" wrote: > > > engine that was made for a reefer unit or generator > > A lot of reefers used 27 hp Isuzu C201s. There are lots out there and they are cheap but don't buy one til you work out how you are going to handle the manifolds in a marine application. If you can figure out how to build & mount a stainless exhaust manifold on a C201 you are a better man than me. > | 21353|1416|2009-10-16 17:34:33|brentswain38|Re: Steel coatings|On one 36 we couldn't get wheel abraded steel so we pulled the hull together and made up the deck panels with all the stiffeners welded on, etc. He got the rusty steel from the scrapyard for his decks for $12 a sheet. After all the stringers were welded on , and other parts welded together, he sandblasted the works. --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Carl Anderson wrote: > > I would think that you wouldn't have to turn over the hull at all. > > The MOST important surface to get right in regards to surface finish is > the INTERIOR side of the steel. > > That would be the top surface of the plate as it sits on the ground. > > Also no need to sandblast the entire plate just wait until you have made > your cuts and then blast and prime the resultant pieces (that would be > the hull sides, skeg and transom as I recall). > > Do the same with the deck & cabin pieces (blast & prime after cutting to > size) and this will only leave you with the cabin top as the most > difficult piece to work with as it is quite large & must be turned over > to get the finished surface on the inside of the boat. > > After you have the hull together then you can sandblast and prime the > outside surface "all-at-once" and proceed to the detailing. > > Just my thoughts on doing it without the abraded & primed steel. > > Carl > sv-mom.com > > > > edward wrote: > > > > > > Hi Stymied, > > > > We used a front end loader to turn it over. We had to move it because of > > the dust. You can turn things over by anchoring one side and winching on > > the other. The anchoring lines and winch all connected to suitable > > strong points such as barn stanchions or trees. > > > > Regards, > > Ted > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > , "Stymied" > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > Maybe this is obvious to everyone but me, but how did you turn the > > hull half over? Or maybe you built it "inverted" in the first place > > (e.g. dart in the air rather than on the ground) but that seems like a > > very difficult way to do it? > > > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > , "edward" wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi Bob, > > > > > > > > I bought untreated steel fabricated the components and then had it > > blasted. See the photos section folder 36' Fly for a photo of the > > blasting of one of the half hulls. The blasted components, cabin top > > sheet etc were then painted with Zinga. After welding the bits together > > the welds and any untreated bits were blasted before painting with Zinga. > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > Ted > > > > > > > > > > | 21354|21326|2009-10-16 18:26:26|brentswain38|Re: BS 40|The mast on the 40 footer is 52 feet and the maximum boom length around 18 ft Most small automotive diesels around 40 HP would be adequate. Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "avedelmar" wrote: > > Hi Brent, > > I´m trying to get an idea of the overall cost of building a BS 40 and have a couple of questions (I´ve seen the materials list in the files section). What would be an appropriate length for the mast and boom? Also, what minimum engine size would you suggest? Thanks, > > Luis > | 21355|21326|2009-10-16 23:45:27|theboilerflue|Re: surplus center diesels|Of course if you are going for keel/skeg cooling and dry exhaust there is no reason to worry about the exhaust manifold rusting since in a setup like in my boat it's pretty much the same as running it in a tractor or a reefer unit with a air cooled radiator. If the engine was used for low rpms it might have to have the governor adjusted or something - I'm no mechanic but it may be worth asking one about that in particular. --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Stymied" wrote: > > > engine that was made for a reefer unit or generator > > A lot of reefers used 27 hp Isuzu C201s. There are lots out there and they are cheap but don't buy one til you work out how you are going to handle the manifolds in a marine application. If you can figure out how to build & mount a stainless exhaust manifold on a C201 you are a better man than me. > | 21356|1416|2009-10-16 23:51:26|theboilerflue|Re: Steel coatings|It;s true blasting the outside is a breeze compared to the inside I wouldn't even touch the outside until you're done all the detailing (ie. all the welding) but the inside would be a great part to do before you put the deck on. --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Carl Anderson wrote: > > I would think that you wouldn't have to turn over the hull at all. > > The MOST important surface to get right in regards to surface finish is > the INTERIOR side of the steel. > > That would be the top surface of the plate as it sits on the ground. > > Also no need to sandblast the entire plate just wait until you have made > your cuts and then blast and prime the resultant pieces (that would be > the hull sides, skeg and transom as I recall). > > Do the same with the deck & cabin pieces (blast & prime after cutting to > size) and this will only leave you with the cabin top as the most > difficult piece to work with as it is quite large & must be turned over > to get the finished surface on the inside of the boat. > > After you have the hull together then you can sandblast and prime the > outside surface "all-at-once" and proceed to the detailing. > > Just my thoughts on doing it without the abraded & primed steel. > > Carl > sv-mom.com > > > > edward wrote: > > > > > > Hi Stymied, > > > > We used a front end loader to turn it over. We had to move it because of > > the dust. You can turn things over by anchoring one side and winching on > > the other. The anchoring lines and winch all connected to suitable > > strong points such as barn stanchions or trees. > > > > Regards, > > Ted > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > , "Stymied" > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > Maybe this is obvious to everyone but me, but how did you turn the > > hull half over? Or maybe you built it "inverted" in the first place > > (e.g. dart in the air rather than on the ground) but that seems like a > > very difficult way to do it? > > > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > , "edward" wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi Bob, > > > > > > > > I bought untreated steel fabricated the components and then had it > > blasted. See the photos section folder 36' Fly for a photo of the > > blasting of one of the half hulls. The blasted components, cabin top > > sheet etc were then painted with Zinga. After welding the bits together > > the welds and any untreated bits were blasted before painting with Zinga. > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > Ted > > > > > > > > > > | 21357|21326|2009-10-17 00:22:42|theboilerflue|Re: surplus center diesels|My thinking was that if i have a header tank on the outlet side i'd have a hell of a time trying to get all the air out of the block since I'd have to force it down into the skeg an then back up (of course thinking about it now it really makes no difference except as you say to prevent running dry) I think I'll just put that overflow tank in now since I have the hoses cut to fit the way it is now. --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "brentswain38" wrote: > > Best put your header tank on the outlet from the engine, so if you accidentally run her dry you won't get an instant airlock in your cooling system. > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "theboilerflue" wrote: > > > > Well here's what I did for my non marine diesel. > > I bought a used 3 cylinder diesel model no. 3TNA72UJ which is the engine John Deere used in their 935 lawn tractors manufactured by Yanmar It's stamped JOHN DEERE (manufactured by Yanmar Marine Japan) > > I plugged in a Hurth 100 transmission and so far has worked well once i worked out a couple of bugs. I made up a frame from some 1 1/2" 1/4" angle iron onto which the engine and the transmission are bolted, I had to cut the bell housing out of the way a little bit to accommodate the (I don't know what these things are called so i'm making up a name) Spring-Plate which is two plates paralelle to each other with springs in between, the spring-plate bolts to the flywheel and the transmission fits into a toothed hole in the centre of the spring-plate. I used SS washers as shims to align the transmission to the engine the transmission then bolts to the shaft in the normal way through a flange. I'm skeg cooled and have a header tank that's about 2-3 gallons above the engine on the intake side, and I may at some point put in another tank tee'd in to the outlet side of the engine to act as an expansion tank and a place for air to escape. I have a 15 gallon fuel tank hung off the bottom side of the cockpit so it's gravity feed into the engine, the fuel filter housing has a priming pump built in as there for some reason is no priming pump on the engine. The exhaust is a dry exhaust which runs through one of those flexible stainless exhaust couplers (about a foot long) then 1 1/2 stainless pipe which runs up to the underside of the cockpit seat then down and out the transom and into the water, I put a SS union joint in the pipe so I can take it apart, It's wrapped with silicone exhaust pipe wrap I got at the auto parts dealer and some other wrap (thats not silicone I don't remember what it is) over top that was way cheaper that I got at Redden net in Campbell river. So far it's warm to the touch and hasn't melted the foam that is (one would think) way too close to where the pipe exits the transome. > > So far the only problems I've had with it are > > the vent in my tank was too low and I wasn't getting enough fuel to the engine. And there's a spring loaded threaded rod that controls the fuel limiting in the governor it's held in place by two nuts that are supposed to be turned in opposition two each other and locked in place these wiggled their way loose and made me take the whole fuel system apart and almost send the fuel pump in to get tested, since re-setting those nuts the engine has run beautifully. > > > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, David Frantz wrote: > > > > > > I've looked at those diesels and find them interesting to say the > > > least. I would think the easy way to put them to work would be to > > > drive a generator. Finding and adapting a gearbox & other hardware > > > would be more work. > > > > > > As to running without a govener I must ask why? Besides the > > > prospects of engine damage, diesels have an ideal operating range for > > > the design of the engine. > > > > > > I never sat an engine up for Marine use so my comments are limited but > > > I will say the use of closed loop cooling isn't much different than a > > > engine with radiator. > > > > > > David A Frantz > > > > > > websterindustro@ > > > Sent from my iPhone. > > > > > > On Oct 13, 2009, at 1:06 AM, aaron riis wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Hi all, considering the inexpensive basic yanmars or kubotas, no > > > > transmissions, but for that price, you would probably still come out > > > > ahead. does anyone have any experience marinizing one of these, also > > > > can disarming the governor mean that these engines can be run at any > > > > speed under redlining? Aaron > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Fri, 10/9/09, avedelmar wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > From: avedelmar > > > > Subject: [origamiboats] BS 40 > > > > To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > > > Received: Friday, October 9, 2009, 1:36 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Brent, > > > > > > > > I´m trying to get an idea of the overall cost of building a BS 40 an > > > > d have a couple of questions (I´ve seen the materials list in the fi > > > > les section). What would be an appropriate length for the mast and b > > > > oom? Also, what minimum engine size would you suggest? Thanks, > > > > > > > > Luis > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________________________ > > > > Make your browsing faster, safer, and easier with the new Internet > > > > Explorer® 8. Optimized for Yahoo! Get it Now for Free! at http://downloads.yahoo.com/ca/internetexplorer > > > > / > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@ > > > > ! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > | 21358|21358|2009-10-17 12:12:22|philip878|free plans|any body got a copy of a small steel yacht plans i just want to study not build........ philxxx@...| 21359|21359|2009-10-17 13:28:51|mickeyolaf|The Marine Business|I called a distributor the other day in an attempt to buy 8 of a certain type of AGM battery. Talk about a system to drown the end user. The distributor distributes but doesn't stock the batteries. She says she can get them in from the US in 4 days but she won't sell them to me. I have to go thru one of their dealers (so the dealer can mark them up a 100%). She was miffed when I said I won't pay retail. I tell her u can't build a boat these days and pay retail. That prices are too high. She gets mad and says she won't stab her dealers. The way she wants the story to go is I call her dealer, the dealer calls her, she calls the manufacturer. The dealer makes $500.00 for a phone call, and she does the same. And I get stuck with the shipping costs to a dealer from her building. That's pretty good wages, about a $100 bucks a minute. The two of them have a system set up to drain me of a $1000 for their doing nothing. Except I won't play. So they make nothing and the manufacturer loses a sale. They have the system set up pretty tight so u can't get around them to get the product. I'm now on a mission to do just that. I'm in the wrong business working for a living.| 21360|21359|2009-10-17 14:19:10|Carl Anderson|Re: The Marine Business|HOW LONG HAVE YOU LIVED IN CANADA? This is the crap that I found out was routine in building my boat up there! Here in the good old USA you can ALWAYS find a way to "jump" the distributor channel and get stuff for a reasonable price. What you are telling us is why Canada is and will remain "provincial" in nature. I shop the hell out of the internet and then call everyone (dealers, wholesalers, distributors and manufacturers) locally to beat them up on the pricing with that information. Works great here! Carl sv-mom.com mickeyolaf wrote: > > > I called a distributor the other day in an attempt to buy 8 of a certain > type of AGM battery. Talk about a system to drown the end user. > > The distributor distributes but doesn't stock the batteries. > > She says she can get them in from the US in 4 days but she won't sell > them to me. I have to go thru one of their dealers (so the dealer can > mark them up a 100%). She was miffed when I said I won't pay retail. > > I tell her u can't build a boat these days and pay retail. That prices > are too high. She gets mad and says she won't stab her dealers. > > The way she wants the story to go is I call her dealer, the dealer calls > her, she calls the manufacturer. The dealer makes $500.00 for a phone > call, and she does the same. And I get stuck with the shipping costs to > a dealer from her building. > > That's pretty good wages, about a $100 bucks a minute. The two of them > have a system set up to drain me of a $1000 for their doing nothing. > > Except I won't play. So they make nothing and the manufacturer loses a sale. > > They have the system set up pretty tight so u can't get around them to > get the product. I'm now on a mission to do just that. > > I'm in the wrong business working for a living. > > | 21361|1416|2009-10-17 15:03:10|edward|Re: Steel coatings|Hi Carl, It was the two half hulls we turned over not the complete hull. We did the insides first, painted them with Zinga then turned them over to do the outside. Its much easier for the blasterman. Mostly we made the components up, keels, skeg, rudder deck sections complete with stringers, transom etc. and blasted and painted them before assembly into the boat. We blasted and painted the sheet for the cabin top and the bent stringers for it as well as the pressed trough for the cockpit. Regards, Ted --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Carl Anderson wrote: > > I would think that you wouldn't have to turn over the hull at all. > > The MOST important surface to get right in regards to surface finish is > the INTERIOR side of the steel. > > That would be the top surface of the plate as it sits on the ground. > > Also no need to sandblast the entire plate just wait until you have made > your cuts and then blast and prime the resultant pieces (that would be > the hull sides, skeg and transom as I recall). > > Do the same with the deck & cabin pieces (blast & prime after cutting to > size) and this will only leave you with the cabin top as the most > difficult piece to work with as it is quite large & must be turned over > to get the finished surface on the inside of the boat. > > After you have the hull together then you can sandblast and prime the > outside surface "all-at-once" and proceed to the detailing. > > Just my thoughts on doing it without the abraded & primed steel. > > Carl > sv-mom.com > > > > edward wrote: > > > > > > Hi Stymied, > > > > We used a front end loader to turn it over. We had to move it because of > > the dust. You can turn things over by anchoring one side and winching on > > the other. The anchoring lines and winch all connected to suitable > > strong points such as barn stanchions or trees. > > > > Regards, > > Ted > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > , "Stymied" > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > Maybe this is obvious to everyone but me, but how did you turn the > > hull half over? Or maybe you built it "inverted" in the first place > > (e.g. dart in the air rather than on the ground) but that seems like a > > very difficult way to do it? > > > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > , "edward" wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi Bob, > > > > > > > > I bought untreated steel fabricated the components and then had it > > blasted. See the photos section folder 36' Fly for a photo of the > > blasting of one of the half hulls. The blasted components, cabin top > > sheet etc were then painted with Zinga. After welding the bits together > > the welds and any untreated bits were blasted before painting with Zinga. > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > Ted > > > > > > > > > > | 21362|21362|2009-10-17 22:06:10|philip878|plans swap|i have a plans set for a 32 foot steel yacht built with FRAMES iwould like to swap for FRAMELESS ORGAMI YACHTS plans THAT are on this SITE...| 21363|21359|2009-10-17 23:33:20|Paul Wilson|Re: The Marine Business|If you want frustration, try New Zealand....they have dealers who get parts direct from US or UK and then mark up based on their Aussie distributor and give them their cut even though Aussie is a FRIGGEN different country that does NOTHING for their end of the deal....if I tell the NZers they are nuts to put up with such BS and they should be their own distributors with their own deals they pull the old "we are a colonial backwater routine and don't deserve better" crap.....I looked at an atlas and I didn't realize that NZ was a province of Australia but they sure act like such......I love NZ but it makes me want to cry..... Paul --- On Sat, 10/17/09, Carl Anderson wrote: From: Carl Anderson Subject: Re: [origamiboats] The Marine Business To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Received: Saturday, October 17, 2009, 2:18 PM   HOW LONG HAVE YOU LIVED IN CANADA? This is the crap that I found out was routine in building my boat up there! Here in the good old USA you can ALWAYS find a way to "jump" the distributor channel and get stuff for a reasonable price. What you are telling us is why Canada is and will remain "provincial" in nature. I shop the hell out of the internet and then call everyone (dealers, wholesalers, distributors and manufacturers) locally to beat them up on the pricing with that information. Works great here! Carl sv-mom.com mickeyolaf wrote: > > > I called a distributor the other day in an attempt to buy 8 of a certain > type of AGM battery. Talk about a system to drown the end user. > > The distributor distributes but doesn't stock the batteries. > > She says she can get them in from the US in 4 days but she won't sell > them to me. I have to go thru one of their dealers (so the dealer can > mark them up a 100%). She was miffed when I said I won't pay retail. > > I tell her u can't build a boat these days and pay retail. That prices > are too high. She gets mad and says she won't stab her dealers. > > The way she wants the story to go is I call her dealer, the dealer calls > her, she calls the manufacturer. The dealer makes $500.00 for a phone > call, and she does the same. And I get stuck with the shipping costs to > a dealer from her building. > > That's pretty good wages, about a $100 bucks a minute. The two of them > have a system set up to drain me of a $1000 for their doing nothing. > > Except I won't play. So they make nothing and the manufacturer loses a sale. > > They have the system set up pretty tight so u can't get around them to > get the product. I'm now on a mission to do just that. > > I'm in the wrong business working for a living. > > __________________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Canada Toolbar: Search from anywhere on the web, and bookmark your favourite sites. Download it now http://ca.toolbar.yahoo.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 21364|21359|2009-10-18 03:46:27|David Frantz|Re: The Marine Business|Sounds like a business opportunity! As far as American businesses go I think many are beginning to realize the old distributor channels are not all they are cracked up to be. Especially if such channels make your products way to expensive to compete. I've only traveled to a few countries outside of the US for business, the primary ones being Brazil and Ireland. To say I've been shocked by the buy local prices on American goods is an understatement. Of course some of that is due to protectionism. The problem with that beside being unethical is that you can seldom get exactly what you want and often have to deal with compromised product. Still I have to repeat sounds like a good opportunity to set up your own importation and distribution business. David A Frantz websterindustro@... Sent from my iPhone. On Oct 17, 2009, at 11:33 PM, Paul Wilson wrote: > If you want frustration, try New Zealand....they have dealers who get > parts direct from US or UK and then mark up based on their Aussie > distributor and give them their cut even though Aussie is a FRIGGEN > different country that does NOTHING for their end of the deal....if I > tell the NZers they are nuts to put up with such BS and they should be > their own distributors with their own deals they pull the old "we > are a > colonial backwater routine and don't deserve better" crap.....I looked > at an atlas and I didn't realize that NZ was a province of Australia > but > they sure act like such......I love NZ but it makes me want to > cry..... > Paul > > > --- On Sat, 10/17/09, Carl Anderson wrote: > > > From: Carl Anderson > Subject: Re: [origamiboats] The Marine Business > To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > Received: Saturday, October 17, 2009, 2:18 PM > > > > > > > HOW LONG HAVE YOU LIVED IN CANADA? > > This is the crap that I found out was routine in building my boat up > there! > > Here in the good old USA you can ALWAYS find a way to "jump" the > distributor channel and get stuff for a reasonable price. > > What you are telling us is why Canada is and will remain > "provincial" in > nature. > > I shop the hell out of the internet and then call everyone (dealers, > wholesalers, distributors and manufacturers) locally to beat them up > on > the pricing with that information. Works great here! > > Carl > sv-mom.com > > mickeyolaf wrote: >> >> >> I called a distributor the other day in an attempt to buy 8 of a >> certain >> type of AGM battery. Talk about a system to drown the end user. >> >> The distributor distributes but doesn't stock the batteries. >> >> She says she can get them in from the US in 4 days but she won't sell >> them to me. I have to go thru one of their dealers (so the dealer can >> mark them up a 100%). She was miffed when I said I won't pay retail. >> >> I tell her u can't build a boat these days and pay retail. That >> prices >> are too high. She gets mad and says she won't stab her dealers. >> >> The way she wants the story to go is I call her dealer, the dealer >> calls >> her, she calls the manufacturer. The dealer makes $500.00 for a phone >> call, and she does the same. And I get stuck with the shipping >> costs to >> a dealer from her building. >> >> That's pretty good wages, about a $100 bucks a minute. The two of >> them >> have a system set up to drain me of a $1000 for their doing nothing. >> >> Except I won't play. So they make nothing and the manufacturer >> loses a sale. >> >> They have the system set up pretty tight so u can't get around them >> to >> get the product. I'm now on a mission to do just that. >> >> I'm in the wrong business working for a living. >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________________________ > Yahoo! Canada Toolbar: Search from anywhere on the web, and bookmark > your favourite sites. Download it now > http://ca.toolbar.yahoo.com > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.comYahoo > ! Groups Links > > > | 21365|1416|2009-10-18 12:08:30|martin demers|Re: Pilothouse windows|Brent, I like the idea of a pilot house with big windows but I am concern with the posibility of the breaking of one of those windows in very bad weather. I saw , on discovery channel, the story of a skipper an his crew delivering a sailboat from New-England to a shouthern state when cought in a storm the boat slided on the side of a wave an when it hit the bottom of it one window broke, water came in and the boat sank. Martin. To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com From: brentswain38@... Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2009 21:16:17 +0000 Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Steel AJ Forsyth in Campbell River is our usual source. As they run a truck up the island regularly, delivery is usually free to Comox. --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "BrianC" wrote: > > Wondering where to order steel for my 31 in the Comox Valley area,looking for abraded zinc primed. I would assume it would come from Vancouver. > Thanks > Brian > _________________________________________________________________ Une connexion rapide à Messenger? C'est par ici! http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9677417 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 21366|1416|2009-10-18 13:09:17|Carl Anderson|Re: Pilothouse windows|I would want to know what the material was that broke. Also the size of the opening that failed. All (each and every one) production pilothouse sailboats that we looked at before deciding to build our own were seriously underglazed in my opinion (window frames not up for offshore use, glazing that is much too thin, very large open spans, etc.) Just to say that a pilothouse window broke is very ambiguous not knowing anything more. We put 1/2" tempered glass in all the openings on MOM. Largest distance across an opening is 24" and the glass maker recommended we use no more than 3/8" as the 1/2" was "too much overkill" on this short span. We even used 1/2" on the little cabin windows as well causing the glass maker to say to us "we've never made such small windows from 1/2" glass". We also created the ability to put storm shutters over the outside of the pilothouse glass by welding in some 1/2" SS acorn nuts, as you can see in our pictures. But in the end, the ocean can claim ANY boat that is upon it! Carl sv-mom.com martin demers wrote: > > > > > Brent, > I like the idea of a pilot house with big windows but I am concern with > the posibility of the breaking of one of those windows in very bad > weather. I saw , on discovery channel, the story of a skipper an his > crew delivering a sailboat from New-England to a shouthern state when > cought in a storm the boat slided on the side of a wave an when it hit > the bottom of it one window broke, water came in and the boat sank. > Martin. > > To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > From: brentswain38@... > Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2009 21:16:17 +0000 > Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Steel > > AJ Forsyth in Campbell River is our usual source. As they run a truck up > the island regularly, delivery is usually free to Comox. > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > , "BrianC" > wrote: > > > > > > Wondering where to order steel for my 31 in the Comox Valley > area,looking for abraded zinc primed. I would assume it would come from > Vancouver. > > > Thanks > > > Brian > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________________ > Une connexion rapide à Messenger? C'est par ici! > http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9677417 > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > | 21367|21367|2009-10-18 13:36:58|ANDREW AIREY|The marine business|The old rule of thumb for American cars in the UK was that if it was a dollar in the States it would be a pound over here.Of course if it was a 'leisure industry' item the markups would be higher. cheers Andy Airey Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com| 21368|21359|2009-10-18 15:11:42|Gary H. Lucas|Re: The Marine Business|I was trying to get a product into the marine market a few years back. I had the market patiently explained to me by the president of Starbright products. He explained to me that it was impossible to sell products to the marine directly because you can not get paid. It's a seasonal industry and if you are paid by the end of the season you won't get paid until next year. So the purpose of a distributor is to sell enough to the stores that they can not afford to stiff the distributor. The end result is that the markup on all marine products from manufacture to end user is 500% to 800%. Having been a manufacturer in a past career I can tell you that you need at least 100% margins for products that are NOT marine nor seasonal, and even more if they are. Small margins = backward industries where very little new ever happens. Gary H. Lucas ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Frantz" To: Cc: Sent: Sunday, October 18, 2009 3:45 AM Subject: Re: [origamiboats] The Marine Business > Sounds like a business opportunity! > > As far as American businesses go I think many are beginning to realize > the old distributor channels are not all they are cracked up to be. > Especially if such channels make your products way to expensive to > compete. > > I've only traveled to a few countries outside of the US for business, > the primary ones being Brazil and Ireland. To say I've been shocked > by the buy local prices on American goods is an understatement. > > Of course some of that is due to protectionism. The problem with > that beside being unethical is that you can seldom get exactly what > you want and often have to deal with compromised product. > > Still I have to repeat sounds like a good opportunity to set up your > own importation and distribution business. > > David A Frantz > > websterindustro@... > Sent from my iPhone. > > On Oct 17, 2009, at 11:33 PM, Paul Wilson wrote: > >> If you want frustration, try New Zealand....they have dealers who get >> parts direct from US or UK and then mark up based on their Aussie >> distributor and give them their cut even though Aussie is a FRIGGEN >> different country that does NOTHING for their end of the deal....if I >> tell the NZers they are nuts to put up with such BS and they should be >> their own distributors with their own deals they pull the old "we >> are a >> colonial backwater routine and don't deserve better" crap.....I looked >> at an atlas and I didn't realize that NZ was a province of Australia >> but >> they sure act like such......I love NZ but it makes me want to >> cry..... >> Paul >> >> >> --- On Sat, 10/17/09, Carl Anderson wrote: >> >> >> From: Carl Anderson >> Subject: Re: [origamiboats] The Marine Business >> To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com >> Received: Saturday, October 17, 2009, 2:18 PM >> >> >> >> >> >> >> HOW LONG HAVE YOU LIVED IN CANADA? >> >> This is the crap that I found out was routine in building my boat up >> there! >> >> Here in the good old USA you can ALWAYS find a way to "jump" the >> distributor channel and get stuff for a reasonable price. >> >> What you are telling us is why Canada is and will remain >> "provincial" in >> nature. >> >> I shop the hell out of the internet and then call everyone (dealers, >> wholesalers, distributors and manufacturers) locally to beat them up >> on >> the pricing with that information. Works great here! >> >> Carl >> sv-mom.com >> >> mickeyolaf wrote: >>> >>> >>> I called a distributor the other day in an attempt to buy 8 of a >>> certain >>> type of AGM battery. Talk about a system to drown the end user. >>> >>> The distributor distributes but doesn't stock the batteries. >>> >>> She says she can get them in from the US in 4 days but she won't sell >>> them to me. I have to go thru one of their dealers (so the dealer can >>> mark them up a 100%). She was miffed when I said I won't pay retail. >>> >>> I tell her u can't build a boat these days and pay retail. That >>> prices >>> are too high. She gets mad and says she won't stab her dealers. >>> >>> The way she wants the story to go is I call her dealer, the dealer >>> calls >>> her, she calls the manufacturer. The dealer makes $500.00 for a phone >>> call, and she does the same. And I get stuck with the shipping >>> costs to >>> a dealer from her building. >>> >>> That's pretty good wages, about a $100 bucks a minute. The two of >>> them >>> have a system set up to drain me of a $1000 for their doing nothing. >>> >>> Except I won't play. So they make nothing and the manufacturer >>> loses a sale. >>> >>> They have the system set up pretty tight so u can't get around them >>> to >>> get the product. I'm now on a mission to do just that. >>> >>> I'm in the wrong business working for a living. >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> __________________________________________________________________ >> Yahoo! Canada Toolbar: Search from anywhere on the web, and bookmark >> your favourite sites. Download it now >> http://ca.toolbar.yahoo.com >> >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >> >> >> >> ------------------------------------ >> >> To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com >> To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: >> origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.comYahoo >> ! Groups Links >> >> >> > | 21369|1416|2009-10-18 17:44:45|IAN CAMPBELL|Re: Pilothouse windows|The missile impact protocols for impact hurricane glass appear to provide the right kind of protection in a mass market product that we can use for dodger or pilot house glazing. Hurricane glass manufactured from polycarbonate (lexan) glued to high stength glass is designed to provide many times the protection of toughened or laminated glass. The exterior soide is still glass but resists a balistic 2X4 stud. Just now designing an aluminium bolt on dodger and I plan on using a standard size impact huirricane glazing Pilothouse windows > I would want to know what the material was that broke. > Also the size of the opening that failed. > All (each and every one) production pilothouse sailboats that we > looked > at before deciding to build our own were seriously underglazed > in my > opinion (window frames not up for offshore use, glazing that is > much too > thin, very large open spans, etc.) > Just to say that a pilothouse window broke is very ambiguous not > knowing > anything more. > > We put 1/2" tempered glass in all the openings on MOM. > Largest distance across an opening is 24" and the glass maker > recommended we use no more than 3/8" as the 1/2" was "too much > overkill" > on this short span. We even used 1/2" on the little cabin > windows as > well causing the glass maker to say to us "we've never made such > small > windows from 1/2" glass". We also created the ability to > put storm > shutters over the outside of the pilothouse glass by welding in > some > 1/2" SS acorn nuts, as you can see in our pictures. > > But in the end, the ocean can claim ANY boat that is upon it! > > Carl > sv-mom.com > > > martin demers wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Brent, > > I like the idea of a pilot house with big windows but I am > concern with > > the posibility of the breaking of one of those windows in very > bad > > weather. I saw , on discovery channel, the story of a skipper > an his > > crew delivering a sailboat from New-England to a shouthern > state when > > cought in a storm the boat slided on the side of a wave an > when it hit > > the bottom of it one window broke, water came in and the boat sank. > > Martin. > > > > To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > From: > brentswain38@... > > Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2009 21:16:17 +0000 > > Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Steel > > > > AJ Forsyth in Campbell River is our usual source. As they run > a truck up > > the island regularly, delivery is usually free to Comox. > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > , "BrianC" > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Wondering where to order steel for my 31 in the Comox > Valley > > area,looking for abraded zinc primed. I would assume it would > come from > > Vancouver. > > > > > Thanks > > > > > Brian > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________________ > > Une connexion rapide à Messenger? C'est par ici! > > http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9677417 > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]| 21370|1416|2009-10-18 21:03:10|theboilerflue|Re: Pilothouse windows|Question is whether the Lexan will turn cloudy from the UV or not Karls windows next to me were pretty yellowed. --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, IAN CAMPBELL wrote: > > The missile impact protocols for impact hurricane glass appear to provide the right kind of protection in a mass market product that we can use for dodger or pilot house glazing. > > Hurricane glass manufactured from polycarbonate (lexan) glued to high stength glass is designed to provide many times the protection of toughened or laminated glass. The exterior soide is still glass but resists a balistic 2X4 stud. > > Just now designing an aluminium bolt on dodger and I plan on using a standard size impact huirricane glazing > > Pilothouse windows > > I would want to know what the material was that broke. > > Also the size of the opening that failed. > > All (each and every one) production pilothouse sailboats that we > > looked > > at before deciding to build our own were seriously underglazed > > in my > > opinion (window frames not up for offshore use, glazing that is > > much too > > thin, very large open spans, etc.) > > Just to say that a pilothouse window broke is very ambiguous not > > knowing > > anything more. > > > > We put 1/2" tempered glass in all the openings on MOM. > > Largest distance across an opening is 24" and the glass maker > > recommended we use no more than 3/8" as the 1/2" was "too much > > overkill" > > on this short span. We even used 1/2" on the little cabin > > windows as > > well causing the glass maker to say to us "we've never made such > > small > > windows from 1/2" glass". We also created the ability to > > put storm > > shutters over the outside of the pilothouse glass by welding in > > some > > 1/2" SS acorn nuts, as you can see in our pictures. > > > > But in the end, the ocean can claim ANY boat that is upon it! > > > > Carl > > sv-mom.com > > > > > > martin demers wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Brent, > > > I like the idea of a pilot house with big windows but I am > > concern with > > > the posibility of the breaking of one of those windows in very > > bad > > > weather. I saw , on discovery channel, the story of a skipper > > an his > > > crew delivering a sailboat from New-England to a shouthern > > state when > > > cought in a storm the boat slided on the side of a wave an > > when it hit > > > the bottom of it one window broke, water came in and the boat sank. > > > Martin. > > > > > > To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > > From: > > brentswain38@... > > > Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2009 21:16:17 +0000 > > > Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Steel > > > > > > AJ Forsyth in Campbell River is our usual source. As they run > > a truck up > > > the island regularly, delivery is usually free to Comox. > > > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > > , "BrianC" > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Wondering where to order steel for my 31 in the Comox > > Valley > > > area,looking for abraded zinc primed. I would assume it would > > come from > > > Vancouver. > > > > > > > Thanks > > > > > > > Brian > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________________ > > > Une connexion rapide à Messenger? C'est par ici! > > > http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9677417 > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > | 21371|1416|2009-10-18 21:19:48|David Frantz|Re: Pilothouse windows|The glass ought to block the UV. Or they could filter out the UV. Personally I wouldn't trust plain glass on aboat, to many opportunities for damage. David A Frantz websterindustro@... Sent from my iPhone. On Oct 18, 2009, at 9:03 PM, theboilerflue wrote: > Question is whether the Lexan will turn cloudy from the UV or not > Karls windows next to me were pretty yellowed. > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, IAN CAMPBELL > wrote: >> >> The missile impact protocols for impact hurricane glass appear to >> provide the right kind of protection in a mass market product that >> we can use for dodger or pilot house glazing. >> >> Hurricane glass manufactured from polycarbonate (lexan) glued to >> high stength glass is designed to provide many times the protection >> of toughened or laminated glass. The exterior soide is still glass >> but resists a balistic 2X4 stud. >> >> Just now designing an aluminium bolt on dodger and I plan on using >> a standard size impact huirricane glazing >> >> Pilothouse windows >>> I would want to know what the material was that broke. >>> Also the size of the opening that failed. >>> All (each and every one) production pilothouse sailboats that we >>> looked >>> at before deciding to build our own were seriously underglazed >>> in my >>> opinion (window frames not up for offshore use, glazing that is >>> much too >>> thin, very large open spans, etc.) >>> Just to say that a pilothouse window broke is very ambiguous not >>> knowing >>> anything more. >>> >>> We put 1/2" tempered glass in all the openings on MOM. >>> Largest distance across an opening is 24" and the glass maker >>> recommended we use no more than 3/8" as the 1/2" was "too much >>> overkill" >>> on this short span. We even used 1/2" on the little cabin >>> windows as >>> well causing the glass maker to say to us "we've never made such >>> small >>> windows from 1/2" glass". We also created the ability to >>> put storm >>> shutters over the outside of the pilothouse glass by welding in >>> some >>> 1/2" SS acorn nuts, as you can see in our pictures. >>> >>> But in the end, the ocean can claim ANY boat that is upon it! >>> >>> Carl >>> sv-mom.com >>> >>> >>> martin demers wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Brent, >>>> I like the idea of a pilot house with big windows but I am >>> concern with >>>> the posibility of the breaking of one of those windows in very >>> bad >>>> weather. I saw , on discovery channel, the story of a skipper >>> an his >>>> crew delivering a sailboat from New-England to a shouthern >>> state when >>>> cought in a storm the boat slided on the side of a wave an >>> when it hit >>>> the bottom of it one window broke, water came in and the boat sank. >>>> Martin. >>>> >>>> To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com >>> > From: >>> brentswain38@... >>>> Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2009 21:16:17 +0000 >>>> Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Steel >>>> >>>> AJ Forsyth in Campbell River is our usual source. As they run >>> a truck up >>>> the island regularly, delivery is usually free to Comox. >>>> >>>> --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com >>>> , "BrianC" >>> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> Wondering where to order steel for my 31 in the Comox >>> Valley >>>> area,looking for abraded zinc primed. I would assume it would >>> come from >>>> Vancouver. >>>> >>>>> Thanks >>>> >>>>> Brian >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> __________________________________________________________ >>>> Une connexion rapide à Messenger? C'est par ici! >>>> http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9677417 >>>> >>>> >>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >> >> >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >> > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.comYahoo > ! Groups Links > > > | 21372|1416|2009-10-18 22:58:34|Paul Wilson|Re: Pilothouse windows|Lexan is incredibly strong but really soft and flexible and gets scratched easily.  A large lexan window can have so much movement and be so flexible it may pop out of its frame when struck if not designed properly.  This is not a problem if through-bolted, of course.  I have been told lexan yellows and eventually you can't see through it,  but I have no personal experience with this so I don't know how long it takes.  I only have acrylic (plexiglass) on my boat since lexan was too expensive at the time and I was advised against it for the above reasons.  It has served me well but acrylic must be very thick to give adequate strength.  My 5 x 10 portholes are 1/2 inch and my sky light is 3/4 inch which is overkill but it was free.  I can still see through my portholes without a problem after almost 20  years.  I have been told the first acrylic windows were used in Germany in World War II and are still OK.  It is possible to polish scratches out of acrylic if you are willing to work at it and bring it up like new again.  Is the lexan sandwiched between layers of glass or only on one side?  This may be great if the cost isn't too high. Cheers, Paul --- On Sun, 10/18/09, theboilerflue wrote: From: theboilerflue Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Pilothouse windows To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Received: Sunday, October 18, 2009, 9:03 PM   Question is whether the Lexan will turn cloudy from the UV or not Karls windows next to me were pretty yellowed. --- In origamiboats@ yahoogroups. com, IAN CAMPBELL wrote: > > The missile impact protocols for impact hurricane glass appear to provide the right kind of protection in a mass market product that we can use for dodger or pilot house glazing. > > Hurricane glass manufactured from polycarbonate (lexan) glued to high stength glass is designed to provide many times the protection of toughened or laminated glass. The exterior soide is still glass but resists a balistic 2X4 stud. > > Just now designing an aluminium bolt on dodger and I plan on using a standard size impact huirricane glazing > > Pilothouse windows > > I would want to know what the material was that broke. > > Also the size of the opening that failed. > > All (each and every one) production pilothouse sailboats that we > > looked > > at before deciding to build our own were seriously underglazed > > in my > > opinion (window frames not up for offshore use, glazing that is > > much too > > thin, very large open spans, etc.) > > Just to say that a pilothouse window broke is very ambiguous not > > knowing > > anything more. > > > > We put 1/2" tempered glass in all the openings on MOM. > > Largest distance across an opening is 24" and the glass maker > > recommended we use no more than 3/8" as the 1/2" was "too much > > overkill" > > on this short span. We even used 1/2" on the little cabin > > windows as > > well causing the glass maker to say to us "we've never made such > > small > > windows from 1/2" glass". We also created the ability to > > put storm > > shutters over the outside of the pilothouse glass by welding in > > some > > 1/2" SS acorn nuts, as you can see in our pictures. > > > > But in the end, the ocean can claim ANY boat that is upon it! > > > > Carl > > sv-mom.com > > > > > > martin demers wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Brent, > > > I like the idea of a pilot house with big windows but I am > > concern with > > > the posibility of the breaking of one of those windows in very > > bad > > > weather. I saw , on discovery channel, the story of a skipper > > an his > > > crew delivering a sailboat from New-England to a shouthern > > state when > > > cought in a storm the boat slided on the side of a wave an > > when it hit > > > the bottom of it one window broke, water came in and the boat sank. > > > Martin. > > > > > > To: origamiboats@ yahoogroups. com > > > From: > > brentswain38@ ... > > > Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2009 21:16:17 +0000 > > > Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Steel > > > > > > AJ Forsyth in Campbell River is our usual source. As they run > > a truck up > > > the island regularly, delivery is usually free to Comox. > > > > > > --- In origamiboats@ yahoogroups. com > > > , "BrianC" > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Wondering where to order steel for my 31 in the Comox > > Valley > > > area,looking for abraded zinc primed. I would assume it would > > come from > > > Vancouver. > > > > > > > Thanks > > > > > > > Brian > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _ > > > Une connexion rapide à Messenger? C'est par ici! > > > http://go.microsoft .com/?linkid= 9677417 > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > __________________________________________________________________ Ask a question on any topic and get answers from real people. Go to Yahoo! Answers and share what you know at http://ca.answers.yahoo.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 21373|1416|2009-10-19 09:48:32|(no author)|(no subject)|The boat I saw on TV did not have a pilothouse, the window that broke was a porthole, the kind situated on the side of the hull. That is the reason why I was concern about the solidity of windows on a pilothouse since the surface of those is much bigger. Martin. To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com From: mdemers2005@... Date: Sun, 18 Oct 2009 12:08:28 -0400 Subject: RE: [origamiboats] Pilothouse windows Brent, I like the idea of a pilot house with big windows but I am concern with the posibility of the breaking of one of those windows in very bad weather. I saw , on discovery channel, the story of a skipper an his crew delivering a sailboat from New-England to a shouthern state when cought in a storm the boat slided on the side of a wave an when it hit the bottom of it one window broke, water came in and the boat sank. Martin. To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com From: brentswain38@... Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2009 21:16:17 +0000 Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Steel AJ Forsyth in Campbell River is our usual source. As they run a truck up the island regularly, delivery is usually free to Comox. --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "BrianC" wrote: > > Wondering where to order steel for my 31 in the Comox Valley area,looking for abraded zinc primed. I would assume it would come from Vancouver. > Thanks > Brian > __________________________________________________________ Une connexion rapide à Messenger? C'est par ici! http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9677417 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] _________________________________________________________________ Ouverture de Messenger sur le nouveau MSN = plus rapide! http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9677415 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 21374|1416|2009-10-19 10:19:50|Aaron Williams|Re: Pilothouse windows|Martin I decided to go with clear 1/2" polycarbonate for all of my portholes and my pilothouse side windows These will all be recessed and bolted into place and was thinking about the hurricane windows for the forward facing windows. Did you find some place that would build the hurricane windows ? Aaron --- On Mon, 10/19/09, martin demers wrote: From: martin demers Subject: RE: [origamiboats] Pilothouse windows To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, October 19, 2009, 5:48 AM   The boat I saw on TV did not have a pilothouse, the window that broke was a porthole, the kind situated on the side of the hull. That is the reason why I was concern about the solidity of windows on a pilothouse since the surface of those is much bigger. Martin. To: origamiboats@ yahoogroups. com From: mdemers2005@ hotmail.com Date: Sun, 18 Oct 2009 12:08:28 -0400 Subject: RE: [origamiboats] Pilothouse windows Brent, I like the idea of a pilot house with big windows but I am concern with the posibility of the breaking of one of those windows in very bad weather. I saw , on discovery channel, the story of a skipper an his crew delivering a sailboat from New-England to a shouthern state when cought in a storm the boat slided on the side of a wave an when it hit the bottom of it one window broke, water came in and the boat sank. Martin. To: origamiboats@ yahoogroups. com From: brentswain38@ hotmail.com Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2009 21:16:17 +0000 Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Steel AJ Forsyth in Campbell River is our usual source. As they run a truck up the island regularly, delivery is usually free to Comox. --- In origamiboats@ yahoogroups. com, "BrianC" wrote: > > Wondering where to order steel for my 31 in the Comox Valley area,looking for abraded zinc primed. I would assume it would come from Vancouver. > Thanks > Brian > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _ Une connexion rapide à Messenger? C'est par ici! http://go.microsoft .com/?linkid= 9677417 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _ Ouverture de Messenger sur le nouveau MSN = plus rapide! http://go.microsoft .com/?linkid= 9677415 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 21375|1416|2009-10-19 14:20:09|sunbear|Re: Pilothouse windows|Did you find some place that would build the hurricane windows ? > Aaron Just build them yourself using the same material or heavier and set it up so you can bolt them to the outside using Brents recessed/buried idea with SS acorn nuts welded to the other side of the hull. That's basically how the people that make the "real" shutters do it except they use expensive custom bolts with threads built into the heads.| 21377|1416|2009-10-20 09:14:54|Stymied|Re: Steel coatings|Slightly different subject, are you worried about welding through the high zinc primer? I know there are "weld-through" primers but from what I'm seeing they are only weld-through when applied ~1 mil thick which besides being too fussy to spray with primitive equipment, also might not be adequate if you are going to walk around on it, slide things on it, etc Realistically the primer is going to be a lot thicker, to the point that it resembles galvanizing. Do you worry about zinc inhalation etc? --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Carl Anderson wrote: > Also no need to sandblast the entire plate just wait until you have made > your cuts and then blast and prime the resultant pieces (that would be > the hull sides, skeg and transom as I recall). | 21378|21378|2009-10-20 10:51:56|philip878|I have some 32 foot yacht plans built with frames want to redo to 25|is this easy to redo the 32 foot frame plans redo to 25 foot...........| 21379|1416|2009-10-20 11:05:38|Carl Anderson|Re: Steel coatings|If you look at the pictures that I have you will see what to do about welding in confined spaces. Out in the open there isn't much problem with inhalation of the welding fumes. I would think that you would want to avoid inhalation of ANY welding fumes. I've heard that the fumes from stainless are MUCH worse or at least as toxic as zinc. Carl sv-mom.com Stymied wrote: > > > Slightly different subject, are you worried about welding through the > high zinc primer? I know there are "weld-through" primers but from what > I'm seeing they are only weld-through when applied ~1 mil thick which > besides being too fussy to spray with primitive equipment, also might > not be adequate if you are going to walk around on it, slide things on > it, etc > > Realistically the primer is going to be a lot thicker, to the point that > it resembles galvanizing. Do you worry about zinc inhalation etc? > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > , Carl Anderson wrote: > > > Also no need to sandblast the entire plate just wait until you have made > > your cuts and then blast and prime the resultant pieces (that would be > > the hull sides, skeg and transom as I recall). > > | 21380|21378|2009-10-20 11:35:09|Tom Mann|Re: I have some 32 foot yacht plans built with frames want to redo t|Well Yes you could scale down to 25' on the loft floor but I dont think you would be happy with the outcome, To heavy and you would have to refigure balast , sails, mast ect. Cast iron bathtub with sails comes to mind! Not to many plans available in steel for a 25 footer. Would Brents 26 fit the bill? The plans are cheap compared to the actual building. Tom On Tue, Oct 20, 2009 at 7:51 AM, philip878 wrote: > is this easy to redo the 32 foot frame plans redo to 25 foot........... > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.comYahoo! Groups Links > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 21381|21326|2009-10-20 15:51:36|brentswain38|Re: surplus center diesels|On second thought , you're right . There are pros and cons to both. Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "theboilerflue" wrote: > > My thinking was that if i have a header tank on the outlet side i'd have a hell of a time trying to get all the air out of the block since I'd have to force it down into the skeg an then back up (of course thinking about it now it really makes no difference except as you say to prevent running dry) I think I'll just put that overflow tank in now since I have the hoses cut to fit the way it is now. > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "brentswain38" wrote: > > > > Best put your header tank on the outlet from the engine, so if you accidentally run her dry you won't get an instant airlock in your cooling system. > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "theboilerflue" wrote: > > > > > > Well here's what I did for my non marine diesel. > > > I bought a used 3 cylinder diesel model no. 3TNA72UJ which is the engine John Deere used in their 935 lawn tractors manufactured by Yanmar It's stamped JOHN DEERE (manufactured by Yanmar Marine Japan) > > > I plugged in a Hurth 100 transmission and so far has worked well once i worked out a couple of bugs. I made up a frame from some 1 1/2" 1/4" angle iron onto which the engine and the transmission are bolted, I had to cut the bell housing out of the way a little bit to accommodate the (I don't know what these things are called so i'm making up a name) Spring-Plate which is two plates paralelle to each other with springs in between, the spring-plate bolts to the flywheel and the transmission fits into a toothed hole in the centre of the spring-plate. I used SS washers as shims to align the transmission to the engine the transmission then bolts to the shaft in the normal way through a flange. I'm skeg cooled and have a header tank that's about 2-3 gallons above the engine on the intake side, and I may at some point put in another tank tee'd in to the outlet side of the engine to act as an expansion tank and a place for air to escape. I have a 15 gallon fuel tank hung off the bottom side of the cockpit so it's gravity feed into the engine, the fuel filter housing has a priming pump built in as there for some reason is no priming pump on the engine. The exhaust is a dry exhaust which runs through one of those flexible stainless exhaust couplers (about a foot long) then 1 1/2 stainless pipe which runs up to the underside of the cockpit seat then down and out the transom and into the water, I put a SS union joint in the pipe so I can take it apart, It's wrapped with silicone exhaust pipe wrap I got at the auto parts dealer and some other wrap (thats not silicone I don't remember what it is) over top that was way cheaper that I got at Redden net in Campbell river. So far it's warm to the touch and hasn't melted the foam that is (one would think) way too close to where the pipe exits the transome. > > > So far the only problems I've had with it are > > > the vent in my tank was too low and I wasn't getting enough fuel to the engine. And there's a spring loaded threaded rod that controls the fuel limiting in the governor it's held in place by two nuts that are supposed to be turned in opposition two each other and locked in place these wiggled their way loose and made me take the whole fuel system apart and almost send the fuel pump in to get tested, since re-setting those nuts the engine has run beautifully. > > > > > > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, David Frantz wrote: > > > > > > > > I've looked at those diesels and find them interesting to say the > > > > least. I would think the easy way to put them to work would be to > > > > drive a generator. Finding and adapting a gearbox & other hardware > > > > would be more work. > > > > > > > > As to running without a govener I must ask why? Besides the > > > > prospects of engine damage, diesels have an ideal operating range for > > > > the design of the engine. > > > > > > > > I never sat an engine up for Marine use so my comments are limited but > > > > I will say the use of closed loop cooling isn't much different than a > > > > engine with radiator. > > > > > > > > David A Frantz > > > > > > > > websterindustro@ > > > > Sent from my iPhone. > > > > > > > > On Oct 13, 2009, at 1:06 AM, aaron riis wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi all, considering the inexpensive basic yanmars or kubotas, no > > > > > transmissions, but for that price, you would probably still come out > > > > > ahead. does anyone have any experience marinizing one of these, also > > > > > can disarming the governor mean that these engines can be run at any > > > > > speed under redlining? Aaron > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Fri, 10/9/09, avedelmar wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: avedelmar > > > > > Subject: [origamiboats] BS 40 > > > > > To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > > > > Received: Friday, October 9, 2009, 1:36 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Brent, > > > > > > > > > > I´m trying to get an idea of the overall cost of building a BS 40 an > > > > > d have a couple of questions (I´ve seen the materials list in the fi > > > > > les section). What would be an appropriate length for the mast and b > > > > > oom? Also, what minimum engine size would you suggest? Thanks, > > > > > > > > > > Luis > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________________________ > > > > > Make your browsing faster, safer, and easier with the new Internet > > > > > Explorer® 8. Optimized for Yahoo! Get it Now for Free! at http://downloads.yahoo.com/ca/internetexplorer > > > > > / > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > > > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@ > > > > > ! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > | 21382|21359|2009-10-20 15:55:13|brentswain38|Re: The Marine Business|A friend who used AGM said they are a waste of time and money ,unless you are tied to the dock with a steady supply of charging. If you are on the hook and can't keep them topped up daily, then they last no longer than the cheapies. Tell her to shove them where the sun don't shine , but the bikers do. Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "mickeyolaf" wrote: > > I called a distributor the other day in an attempt to buy 8 of a certain type of AGM battery. Talk about a system to drown the end user. > > The distributor distributes but doesn't stock the batteries. > > She says she can get them in from the US in 4 days but she won't sell them to me. I have to go thru one of their dealers (so the dealer can mark them up a 100%). She was miffed when I said I won't pay retail. > > I tell her u can't build a boat these days and pay retail. That prices are too high. She gets mad and says she won't stab her dealers. > > The way she wants the story to go is I call her dealer, the dealer calls her, she calls the manufacturer. The dealer makes $500.00 for a phone call, and she does the same. And I get stuck with the shipping costs to a dealer from her building. > > That's pretty good wages, about a $100 bucks a minute. The two of them have a system set up to drain me of a $1000 for their doing nothing. > > Except I won't play. So they make nothing and the manufacturer loses a sale. > > They have the system set up pretty tight so u can't get around them to get the product. I'm now on a mission to do just that. > > > I'm in the wrong business working for a living. > | 21383|21359|2009-10-20 15:59:30|brentswain38|Re: The Marine Business|Simple solution. Avoid the marine buisiness and use industrial sources and second hand places as much as possible. I find about the only things I have to buy from Marine retailers is a bit of sail track. Everything else I can build myself or find used, in good shape. --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, David Frantz wrote: > > Sounds like a business opportunity! > > As far as American businesses go I think many are beginning to realize > the old distributor channels are not all they are cracked up to be. > Especially if such channels make your products way to expensive to > compete. > > I've only traveled to a few countries outside of the US for business, > the primary ones being Brazil and Ireland. To say I've been shocked > by the buy local prices on American goods is an understatement. > > Of course some of that is due to protectionism. The problem with > that beside being unethical is that you can seldom get exactly what > you want and often have to deal with compromised product. > > Still I have to repeat sounds like a good opportunity to set up your > own importation and distribution business. > > David A Frantz > > websterindustro@... > Sent from my iPhone. > > On Oct 17, 2009, at 11:33 PM, Paul Wilson wrote: > > > If you want frustration, try New Zealand....they have dealers who get > > parts direct from US or UK and then mark up based on their Aussie > > distributor and give them their cut even though Aussie is a FRIGGEN > > different country that does NOTHING for their end of the deal....if I > > tell the NZers they are nuts to put up with such BS and they should be > > their own distributors with their own deals they pull the old "we > > are a > > colonial backwater routine and don't deserve better" crap.....I looked > > at an atlas and I didn't realize that NZ was a province of Australia > > but > > they sure act like such......I love NZ but it makes me want to > > cry..... > > Paul > > > > > > --- On Sat, 10/17/09, Carl Anderson wrote: > > > > > > From: Carl Anderson > > Subject: Re: [origamiboats] The Marine Business > > To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > Received: Saturday, October 17, 2009, 2:18 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > HOW LONG HAVE YOU LIVED IN CANADA? > > > > This is the crap that I found out was routine in building my boat up > > there! > > > > Here in the good old USA you can ALWAYS find a way to "jump" the > > distributor channel and get stuff for a reasonable price. > > > > What you are telling us is why Canada is and will remain > > "provincial" in > > nature. > > > > I shop the hell out of the internet and then call everyone (dealers, > > wholesalers, distributors and manufacturers) locally to beat them up > > on > > the pricing with that information. Works great here! > > > > Carl > > sv-mom.com > > > > mickeyolaf wrote: > >> > >> > >> I called a distributor the other day in an attempt to buy 8 of a > >> certain > >> type of AGM battery. Talk about a system to drown the end user. > >> > >> The distributor distributes but doesn't stock the batteries. > >> > >> She says she can get them in from the US in 4 days but she won't sell > >> them to me. I have to go thru one of their dealers (so the dealer can > >> mark them up a 100%). She was miffed when I said I won't pay retail. > >> > >> I tell her u can't build a boat these days and pay retail. That > >> prices > >> are too high. She gets mad and says she won't stab her dealers. > >> > >> The way she wants the story to go is I call her dealer, the dealer > >> calls > >> her, she calls the manufacturer. The dealer makes $500.00 for a phone > >> call, and she does the same. And I get stuck with the shipping > >> costs to > >> a dealer from her building. > >> > >> That's pretty good wages, about a $100 bucks a minute. The two of > >> them > >> have a system set up to drain me of a $1000 for their doing nothing. > >> > >> Except I won't play. So they make nothing and the manufacturer > >> loses a sale. > >> > >> They have the system set up pretty tight so u can't get around them > >> to > >> get the product. I'm now on a mission to do just that. > >> > >> I'm in the wrong business working for a living. > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________________________ > > Yahoo! Canada Toolbar: Search from anywhere on the web, and bookmark > > your favourite sites. Download it now > > http://ca.toolbar.yahoo.com > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@... > > ! Groups Links > > > > > > > | 21384|21367|2009-10-20 16:02:32|brentswain38|The marine business|Those are the prices I've noticed in British boating magazines, roughly double of what they are on this side of the pond. --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, ANDREW AIREY wrote: > > The old rule of thumb for American cars in the UK was that if it was a dollar in the States it would be a pound over here.Of course if it was a 'leisure industry' item the markups would be higher. > cheers > Andy Airey > > Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com > | 21385|1416|2009-10-20 16:08:18|brentswain38|Re: Steel coatings|I once got a flu like illness from welding on interzinc that we had slopped on. It went away in a week or so, nothing permananent . I've never had the problem with zincs commercially sprayed on wheelabraded steel , but they are very thin and need to be recoated after you pull the hull up. Alex and Haiden found that out the hard way. --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Stymied" wrote: > > Slightly different subject, are you worried about welding through the high zinc primer? I know there are "weld-through" primers but from what I'm seeing they are only weld-through when applied ~1 mil thick which besides being too fussy to spray with primitive equipment, also might not be adequate if you are going to walk around on it, slide things on it, etc > > Realistically the primer is going to be a lot thicker, to the point that it resembles galvanizing. Do you worry about zinc inhalation etc? > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Carl Anderson wrote: > > > Also no need to sandblast the entire plate just wait until you have made > > your cuts and then blast and prime the resultant pieces (that would be > > the hull sides, skeg and transom as I recall). > | 21386|1416|2009-10-20 16:11:53|brentswain38|Re: Steel coatings|I hooked up a rubber face mast with check valves in to 24 feet of corrugated plastic sump drain hose, and found it easier to suck the air thru the hose than thru any filtre I've ever used. It was far cheaper too, as the hose only cost $7, and breathing air from 24 feet away is as safe as you can get. --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Carl Anderson wrote: > > If you look at the pictures that I have you will see what to do about > welding in confined spaces. > Out in the open there isn't much problem with inhalation of the welding > fumes. > I would think that you would want to avoid inhalation of ANY welding fumes. > I've heard that the fumes from stainless are MUCH worse or at least as > toxic as zinc. > > Carl > sv-mom.com > > > > Stymied wrote: > > > > > > Slightly different subject, are you worried about welding through the > > high zinc primer? I know there are "weld-through" primers but from what > > I'm seeing they are only weld-through when applied ~1 mil thick which > > besides being too fussy to spray with primitive equipment, also might > > not be adequate if you are going to walk around on it, slide things on > > it, etc > > > > Realistically the primer is going to be a lot thicker, to the point that > > it resembles galvanizing. Do you worry about zinc inhalation etc? > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > , Carl Anderson wrote: > > > > > Also no need to sandblast the entire plate just wait until you have made > > > your cuts and then blast and prime the resultant pieces (that would be > > > the hull sides, skeg and transom as I recall). > > > > > | 21387|1416|2009-10-20 16:16:19|brentswain38|Re: Pilothouse windows|Most commercially made ports have as thin a glass as they can get away with. I've seen some incredibly thin material used on them. Plexi has 25 times the impact resistance of standard glass for a given thickness. Port failure is extremely rare for those using the thicker material. Large ports do make it very easy for anyone to break into your boat, and increase condensation and heat loss. --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "sunbear" wrote: > > Did you find some place that would build the hurricane windows ? > > Aaron > > Just build them yourself using the same material or heavier and set it up so you can bolt them to the outside using Brents recessed/buried idea with SS acorn nuts welded to the other side of the hull. That's basically how the people that make the "real" shutters do it except they use expensive custom bolts with threads built into the heads. > | 21388|21388|2009-10-20 16:23:04|brentswain38|Brokers and thieves|A friend recently bought a boat from Discovery Harbour Yacht brokers in Campbell river . After taking the boat home, she found the battery charger was missing. It was there when I first saw the boat, and was on the equipment list. When asked about it , George the broker became very defensive. He had the other key. When taking possesion of a boat it is probably a good idea to doubke check the equipment list and make sure no one has helped himself to any equipment, before handing over the cheque. Then change the locks immediately . And don't deal with brokers with a sleazy reputation.| 21389|1416|2009-10-20 22:30:15|theboilerflue|Re: Steel coatings|When I welded the steel plate over the lead inside my keels (a really awkward place to weld without being right over top of the fumes which are channelled right into ones face) I was using a respirator and the filters clogged after finishing one of the keels. Just couldn't get any air through them and had to change them. welding rod has a healthy mix of all the common heavy metals know to be bad for living things, chromium, nickel, manganese, molybdenum, vanadium, titanium, cobalt, copper, Stainless would have higher chromium and nickel flux core wire would have silica or fluorides and cadmium, I wouldn't do it for a living but a boat or two shouldn't kill you. --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Carl Anderson wrote: > > If you look at the pictures that I have you will see what to do about > welding in confined spaces. > Out in the open there isn't much problem with inhalation of the welding > fumes. > I would think that you would want to avoid inhalation of ANY welding fumes. > I've heard that the fumes from stainless are MUCH worse or at least as > toxic as zinc. > > Carl > sv-mom.com > > > > Stymied wrote: > > > > > > Slightly different subject, are you worried about welding through the > > high zinc primer? I know there are "weld-through" primers but from what > > I'm seeing they are only weld-through when applied ~1 mil thick which > > besides being too fussy to spray with primitive equipment, also might > > not be adequate if you are going to walk around on it, slide things on > > it, etc > > > > Realistically the primer is going to be a lot thicker, to the point that > > it resembles galvanizing. Do you worry about zinc inhalation etc? > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > , Carl Anderson wrote: > > > > > Also no need to sandblast the entire plate just wait until you have made > > > your cuts and then blast and prime the resultant pieces (that would be > > > the hull sides, skeg and transom as I recall). > > > > > | 21390|21326|2009-10-20 22:33:18|theboilerflue|Re: surplus center diesels|I put in a stainless tee that i have capped off now thinking I could put a expansion tank on or move the header tank --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "brentswain38" wrote: > > On second thought , you're right . There are pros and cons to both. > Brent > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "theboilerflue" wrote: > > > > My thinking was that if i have a header tank on the outlet side i'd have a hell of a time trying to get all the air out of the block since I'd have to force it down into the skeg an then back up (of course thinking about it now it really makes no difference except as you say to prevent running dry) I think I'll just put that overflow tank in now since I have the hoses cut to fit the way it is now. > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "brentswain38" wrote: > > > > > > Best put your header tank on the outlet from the engine, so if you accidentally run her dry you won't get an instant airlock in your cooling system. > > > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "theboilerflue" wrote: > > > > > > > > Well here's what I did for my non marine diesel. > > > > I bought a used 3 cylinder diesel model no. 3TNA72UJ which is the engine John Deere used in their 935 lawn tractors manufactured by Yanmar It's stamped JOHN DEERE (manufactured by Yanmar Marine Japan) > > > > I plugged in a Hurth 100 transmission and so far has worked well once i worked out a couple of bugs. I made up a frame from some 1 1/2" 1/4" angle iron onto which the engine and the transmission are bolted, I had to cut the bell housing out of the way a little bit to accommodate the (I don't know what these things are called so i'm making up a name) Spring-Plate which is two plates paralelle to each other with springs in between, the spring-plate bolts to the flywheel and the transmission fits into a toothed hole in the centre of the spring-plate. I used SS washers as shims to align the transmission to the engine the transmission then bolts to the shaft in the normal way through a flange. I'm skeg cooled and have a header tank that's about 2-3 gallons above the engine on the intake side, and I may at some point put in another tank tee'd in to the outlet side of the engine to act as an expansion tank and a place for air to escape. I have a 15 gallon fuel tank hung off the bottom side of the cockpit so it's gravity feed into the engine, the fuel filter housing has a priming pump built in as there for some reason is no priming pump on the engine. The exhaust is a dry exhaust which runs through one of those flexible stainless exhaust couplers (about a foot long) then 1 1/2 stainless pipe which runs up to the underside of the cockpit seat then down and out the transom and into the water, I put a SS union joint in the pipe so I can take it apart, It's wrapped with silicone exhaust pipe wrap I got at the auto parts dealer and some other wrap (thats not silicone I don't remember what it is) over top that was way cheaper that I got at Redden net in Campbell river. So far it's warm to the touch and hasn't melted the foam that is (one would think) way too close to where the pipe exits the transome. > > > > So far the only problems I've had with it are > > > > the vent in my tank was too low and I wasn't getting enough fuel to the engine. And there's a spring loaded threaded rod that controls the fuel limiting in the governor it's held in place by two nuts that are supposed to be turned in opposition two each other and locked in place these wiggled their way loose and made me take the whole fuel system apart and almost send the fuel pump in to get tested, since re-setting those nuts the engine has run beautifully. > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, David Frantz wrote: > > > > > > > > > > I've looked at those diesels and find them interesting to say the > > > > > least. I would think the easy way to put them to work would be to > > > > > drive a generator. Finding and adapting a gearbox & other hardware > > > > > would be more work. > > > > > > > > > > As to running without a govener I must ask why? Besides the > > > > > prospects of engine damage, diesels have an ideal operating range for > > > > > the design of the engine. > > > > > > > > > > I never sat an engine up for Marine use so my comments are limited but > > > > > I will say the use of closed loop cooling isn't much different than a > > > > > engine with radiator. > > > > > > > > > > David A Frantz > > > > > > > > > > websterindustro@ > > > > > Sent from my iPhone. > > > > > > > > > > On Oct 13, 2009, at 1:06 AM, aaron riis wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi all, considering the inexpensive basic yanmars or kubotas, no > > > > > > transmissions, but for that price, you would probably still come out > > > > > > ahead. does anyone have any experience marinizing one of these, also > > > > > > can disarming the governor mean that these engines can be run at any > > > > > > speed under redlining? Aaron > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Fri, 10/9/09, avedelmar wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: avedelmar > > > > > > Subject: [origamiboats] BS 40 > > > > > > To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > Received: Friday, October 9, 2009, 1:36 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Brent, > > > > > > > > > > > > I´m trying to get an idea of the overall cost of building a BS 40 an > > > > > > d have a couple of questions (I´ve seen the materials list in the fi > > > > > > les section). What would be an appropriate length for the mast and b > > > > > > oom? Also, what minimum engine size would you suggest? Thanks, > > > > > > > > > > > > Luis > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________________________ > > > > > > Make your browsing faster, safer, and easier with the new Internet > > > > > > Explorer® 8. Optimized for Yahoo! Get it Now for Free! at http://downloads.yahoo.com/ca/internetexplorer > > > > > > / > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@ > > > > > > ! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > | 21391|1416|2009-10-20 22:38:01|theboilerflue|Re: Steel coatings|how long do you think the shop coating lasts brent? the hull was about 50/50 rust/zinc coating when I got the hull and it was what three year old by then? and what is the difference in price around here? --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "brentswain38" wrote: > > I once got a flu like illness from welding on interzinc that we had slopped on. It went away in a week or so, nothing permananent . I've never had the problem with zincs commercially sprayed on wheelabraded steel , but they are very thin and need to be recoated after you pull the hull up. Alex and Haiden found that out the hard way. > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Stymied" wrote: > > > > Slightly different subject, are you worried about welding through the high zinc primer? I know there are "weld-through" primers but from what I'm seeing they are only weld-through when applied ~1 mil thick which besides being too fussy to spray with primitive equipment, also might not be adequate if you are going to walk around on it, slide things on it, etc > > > > Realistically the primer is going to be a lot thicker, to the point that it resembles galvanizing. Do you worry about zinc inhalation etc? > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Carl Anderson wrote: > > > > > Also no need to sandblast the entire plate just wait until you have made > > > your cuts and then blast and prime the resultant pieces (that would be > > > the hull sides, skeg and transom as I recall). > > > | 21392|1416|2009-10-20 22:40:07|theboilerflue|Re: Steel coatings|yeah that works pretty good too I did that when I re-melted the lead down into the keels --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "brentswain38" wrote: > > I hooked up a rubber face mast with check valves in to 24 feet of corrugated plastic sump drain hose, and found it easier to suck the air thru the hose than thru any filtre I've ever used. It was far cheaper too, as the hose only cost $7, and breathing air from 24 feet away is as safe as you can get. > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Carl Anderson wrote: > > > > If you look at the pictures that I have you will see what to do about > > welding in confined spaces. > > Out in the open there isn't much problem with inhalation of the welding > > fumes. > > I would think that you would want to avoid inhalation of ANY welding fumes. > > I've heard that the fumes from stainless are MUCH worse or at least as > > toxic as zinc. > > > > Carl > > sv-mom.com > > > > > > > > Stymied wrote: > > > > > > > > > Slightly different subject, are you worried about welding through the > > > high zinc primer? I know there are "weld-through" primers but from what > > > I'm seeing they are only weld-through when applied ~1 mil thick which > > > besides being too fussy to spray with primitive equipment, also might > > > not be adequate if you are going to walk around on it, slide things on > > > it, etc > > > > > > Realistically the primer is going to be a lot thicker, to the point that > > > it resembles galvanizing. Do you worry about zinc inhalation etc? > > > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > > , Carl Anderson wrote: > > > > > > > Also no need to sandblast the entire plate just wait until you have made > > > > your cuts and then blast and prime the resultant pieces (that would be > > > > the hull sides, skeg and transom as I recall). > > > > > > > > > | 21393|21393|2009-10-20 22:50:28|jpronk1|Self Steering|I'm working on the self steering gear right now. I have 24 notches in the 6" diameter notched wheel. I was looking at the photos of Brent's in his book and on the plans it looks like he has a lot more. Should I have about 48 notches? I guess it will give me much finer adjustment and the ability to steer a more accurate course. James| 21394|21394|2009-10-20 22:58:51|jpronk1|Mooring bit|For the bow mooring bit should I make the 12"x12"x1/4" doubler plate out of stainless steel? Also has anyone had any problems welding 316 to 304 stainless steel with 308L electrodes? Thank you, James| 21395|21394|2009-10-20 23:56:55|Aaron Williams|Re: Mooring bit|James What kind of problem are you having welding SS. You can weld the 316 to 304 with 308 electrodes, but in a corrosive chemical environment you would use 316L electrodes to make the weld. Aaron --- On Tue, 10/20/09, jpronk1 wrote: From: jpronk1 Subject: [origamiboats] Mooring bit To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, October 20, 2009, 6:58 PM   For the bow mooring bit should I make the 12"x12"x1/4" doubler plate out of stainless steel? Also has anyone had any problems welding 316 to 304 stainless steel with 308L electrodes? Thank you, James [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 21397|21394|2009-10-21 06:41:44|jpronk1|Re: Mooring bit|Thanks Aaron That is what I've been telling my welding supplier. I have not had any problems other then people saying that I will get poor quality welds "You can only weld 316 to 316 using 316 electrodes". I will just keep telling them to sell me what I ask for and go piss up a rope! James --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Aaron Williams wrote: > > James > What kind of problem are you having welding SS. You can weld the 316 to 304 with 308 electrodes, but in a corrosive chemical environment you would use 316L electrodes to make the weld. > Aaron > > --- On Tue, 10/20/09, jpronk1 wrote: > > > From: jpronk1 > Subject: [origamiboats] Mooring bit > To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > Date: Tuesday, October 20, 2009, 6:58 PM > > >   > > > > For the bow mooring bit should I make the 12"x12"x1/4" doubler plate out of stainless steel? > Also has anyone had any problems welding 316 to 304 stainless steel with 308L electrodes? > Thank you, > James > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > | 21398|21394|2009-10-21 16:54:50|brentswain38|Re: Mooring bit|Stainless there is a good idea, just hard to cut the hole in it , unless you have plasma. I see no problem with 308 rods . I've never had any problem with them. --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "jpronk1" wrote: > > For the bow mooring bit should I make the 12"x12"x1/4" doubler plate out of stainless steel? > Also has anyone had any problems welding 316 to 304 stainless steel with 308L electrodes? > Thank you, > James > | 21399|21393|2009-10-21 16:57:25|brentswain38|Re: Self Steering|I use 1/8th notches with 1/8th of an inch of metal between them. As a boat wanders a but , closer notches are not neccessarily a huge advantage. If you have a lot of metal between the notches , by all means cut more. If not, don't worry about it. Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "jpronk1" wrote: > > I'm working on the self steering gear right now. I have 24 notches in the 6" diameter notched wheel. I was looking at the photos of Brent's in his book and on the plans it looks like he has a lot more. Should I have about 48 notches? I guess it will give me much finer adjustment and the ability to steer a more accurate course. > James > | 21400|1416|2009-10-21 17:00:46|brentswain38|Re: Steel coatings|Had Alex given her an extra coat of zinc in the first four months after pulling the hull together , there would have been no need to sandblast. If you do the long welds , then zinc her, burning thru zinc while detailing is no problem. --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "theboilerflue" wrote: > > how long do you think the shop coating lasts brent? the hull was about 50/50 rust/zinc coating when I got the hull and it was what three year old by then? and what is the difference in price around here? > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "brentswain38" wrote: > > > > I once got a flu like illness from welding on interzinc that we had slopped on. It went away in a week or so, nothing permananent . I've never had the problem with zincs commercially sprayed on wheelabraded steel , but they are very thin and need to be recoated after you pull the hull up. Alex and Haiden found that out the hard way. > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Stymied" wrote: > > > > > > Slightly different subject, are you worried about welding through the high zinc primer? I know there are "weld-through" primers but from what I'm seeing they are only weld-through when applied ~1 mil thick which besides being too fussy to spray with primitive equipment, also might not be adequate if you are going to walk around on it, slide things on it, etc > > > > > > Realistically the primer is going to be a lot thicker, to the point that it resembles galvanizing. Do you worry about zinc inhalation etc? > > > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Carl Anderson wrote: > > > > > > > Also no need to sandblast the entire plate just wait until you have made > > > > your cuts and then blast and prime the resultant pieces (that would be > > > > the hull sides, skeg and transom as I recall). > > > > > > | 21401|1416|2009-10-21 17:04:47|brentswain38|Re: Steel coatings|The sump drain hose trick would have worked . An electric leaf blower, or the blower side of a vacuum cleaner , pointed into the keel, or the suction side of the vacuum cleaner , would have also helped. I hear they have banned leaf blowers in Toronto. It's making it hard for the Leafs to sign new players. --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "theboilerflue" wrote: > > When I welded the steel plate over the lead inside my keels (a really awkward place to weld without being right over top of the fumes which are channelled right into ones face) I was using a respirator and the filters clogged after finishing one of the keels. Just couldn't get any air through them and had to change them. welding rod has a healthy mix of all the common heavy metals know to be bad for living things, chromium, nickel, manganese, molybdenum, vanadium, titanium, cobalt, copper, Stainless would have higher chromium and nickel flux core wire would have silica or fluorides and cadmium, I wouldn't do it for a living but a boat or two shouldn't kill you. > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Carl Anderson wrote: > > > > If you look at the pictures that I have you will see what to do about > > welding in confined spaces. > > Out in the open there isn't much problem with inhalation of the welding > > fumes. > > I would think that you would want to avoid inhalation of ANY welding fumes. > > I've heard that the fumes from stainless are MUCH worse or at least as > > toxic as zinc. > > > > Carl > > sv-mom.com > > > > > > > > Stymied wrote: > > > > > > > > > Slightly different subject, are you worried about welding through the > > > high zinc primer? I know there are "weld-through" primers but from what > > > I'm seeing they are only weld-through when applied ~1 mil thick which > > > besides being too fussy to spray with primitive equipment, also might > > > not be adequate if you are going to walk around on it, slide things on > > > it, etc > > > > > > Realistically the primer is going to be a lot thicker, to the point that > > > it resembles galvanizing. Do you worry about zinc inhalation etc? > > > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > > , Carl Anderson wrote: > > > > > > > Also no need to sandblast the entire plate just wait until you have made > > > > your cuts and then blast and prime the resultant pieces (that would be > > > > the hull sides, skeg and transom as I recall). > > > > > > > > > | 21402|21326|2009-10-21 17:05:45|brentswain38|Re: surplus center diesels|The header tank is all the expansion tank you need. Just push a soft plastic cap on for a cap. --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "theboilerflue" wrote: > > I put in a stainless tee that i have capped off now thinking I could put a expansion tank on or move the header tank > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "brentswain38" wrote: > > > > On second thought , you're right . There are pros and cons to both. > > Brent > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "theboilerflue" wrote: > > > > > > My thinking was that if i have a header tank on the outlet side i'd have a hell of a time trying to get all the air out of the block since I'd have to force it down into the skeg an then back up (of course thinking about it now it really makes no difference except as you say to prevent running dry) I think I'll just put that overflow tank in now since I have the hoses cut to fit the way it is now. > > > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "brentswain38" wrote: > > > > > > > > Best put your header tank on the outlet from the engine, so if you accidentally run her dry you won't get an instant airlock in your cooling system. > > > > > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "theboilerflue" wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Well here's what I did for my non marine diesel. > > > > > I bought a used 3 cylinder diesel model no. 3TNA72UJ which is the engine John Deere used in their 935 lawn tractors manufactured by Yanmar It's stamped JOHN DEERE (manufactured by Yanmar Marine Japan) > > > > > I plugged in a Hurth 100 transmission and so far has worked well once i worked out a couple of bugs. I made up a frame from some 1 1/2" 1/4" angle iron onto which the engine and the transmission are bolted, I had to cut the bell housing out of the way a little bit to accommodate the (I don't know what these things are called so i'm making up a name) Spring-Plate which is two plates paralelle to each other with springs in between, the spring-plate bolts to the flywheel and the transmission fits into a toothed hole in the centre of the spring-plate. I used SS washers as shims to align the transmission to the engine the transmission then bolts to the shaft in the normal way through a flange. I'm skeg cooled and have a header tank that's about 2-3 gallons above the engine on the intake side, and I may at some point put in another tank tee'd in to the outlet side of the engine to act as an expansion tank and a place for air to escape. I have a 15 gallon fuel tank hung off the bottom side of the cockpit so it's gravity feed into the engine, the fuel filter housing has a priming pump built in as there for some reason is no priming pump on the engine. The exhaust is a dry exhaust which runs through one of those flexible stainless exhaust couplers (about a foot long) then 1 1/2 stainless pipe which runs up to the underside of the cockpit seat then down and out the transom and into the water, I put a SS union joint in the pipe so I can take it apart, It's wrapped with silicone exhaust pipe wrap I got at the auto parts dealer and some other wrap (thats not silicone I don't remember what it is) over top that was way cheaper that I got at Redden net in Campbell river. So far it's warm to the touch and hasn't melted the foam that is (one would think) way too close to where the pipe exits the transome. > > > > > So far the only problems I've had with it are > > > > > the vent in my tank was too low and I wasn't getting enough fuel to the engine. And there's a spring loaded threaded rod that controls the fuel limiting in the governor it's held in place by two nuts that are supposed to be turned in opposition two each other and locked in place these wiggled their way loose and made me take the whole fuel system apart and almost send the fuel pump in to get tested, since re-setting those nuts the engine has run beautifully. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, David Frantz wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > I've looked at those diesels and find them interesting to say the > > > > > > least. I would think the easy way to put them to work would be to > > > > > > drive a generator. Finding and adapting a gearbox & other hardware > > > > > > would be more work. > > > > > > > > > > > > As to running without a govener I must ask why? Besides the > > > > > > prospects of engine damage, diesels have an ideal operating range for > > > > > > the design of the engine. > > > > > > > > > > > > I never sat an engine up for Marine use so my comments are limited but > > > > > > I will say the use of closed loop cooling isn't much different than a > > > > > > engine with radiator. > > > > > > > > > > > > David A Frantz > > > > > > > > > > > > websterindustro@ > > > > > > Sent from my iPhone. > > > > > > > > > > > > On Oct 13, 2009, at 1:06 AM, aaron riis wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi all, considering the inexpensive basic yanmars or kubotas, no > > > > > > > transmissions, but for that price, you would probably still come out > > > > > > > ahead. does anyone have any experience marinizing one of these, also > > > > > > > can disarming the governor mean that these engines can be run at any > > > > > > > speed under redlining? Aaron > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Fri, 10/9/09, avedelmar wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: avedelmar > > > > > > > Subject: [origamiboats] BS 40 > > > > > > > To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > Received: Friday, October 9, 2009, 1:36 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Brent, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I´m trying to get an idea of the overall cost of building a BS 40 an > > > > > > > d have a couple of questions (I´ve seen the materials list in the fi > > > > > > > les section). What would be an appropriate length for the mast and b > > > > > > > oom? Also, what minimum engine size would you suggest? Thanks, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Luis > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________________________ > > > > > > > Make your browsing faster, safer, and easier with the new Internet > > > > > > > Explorer® 8. Optimized for Yahoo! Get it Now for Free! at http://downloads.yahoo.com/ca/internetexplorer > > > > > > > / > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@ > > > > > > > ! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > | 21403|21393|2009-10-21 18:39:49|jpronk1|Re: Self Steering|I have about 3/8 between the notches so I will cut more between the ones I have, thanks Brent. If I run out of small pieces soon I think I will start on the mast. James --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "brentswain38" wrote: > > I use 1/8th notches with 1/8th of an inch of metal between them. As a boat wanders a but , closer notches are not neccessarily a huge advantage. If you have a lot of metal between the notches , by all means cut more. If not, don't worry about it. > Brent > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "jpronk1" wrote: > > > > I'm working on the self steering gear right now. I have 24 notches in the 6" diameter notched wheel. I was looking at the photos of Brent's in his book and on the plans it looks like he has a lot more. Should I have about 48 notches? I guess it will give me much finer adjustment and the ability to steer a more accurate course. > > James > > > | 21404|21394|2009-10-22 05:39:49|edward|Re: Mooring bit|James and all, I use 309L with a DC welder for stainless to stainless and to mild steel welding. It works a treat. Regards, Ted --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "brentswain38" wrote: > > Stainless there is a good idea, just hard to cut the hole in it , unless you have plasma. I see no problem with 308 rods . I've never had any problem with them. > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "jpronk1" wrote: > > > > For the bow mooring bit should I make the 12"x12"x1/4" doubler plate out of stainless steel? > > Also has anyone had any problems welding 316 to 304 stainless steel with 308L electrodes? > > Thank you, > > James > > > | 21405|21394|2009-10-22 07:08:32|jpronk1|Re: Mooring bit|Thanks Ted One school that I was teaching at had two cases of 1/8 308L and one of 309L that they throw into the scrap dumpster. I"ll give the 309 a try but I am saving it for when I start assemble the boat. James --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "edward" wrote: > > James and all, > > I use 309L with a DC welder for stainless to stainless and to mild steel welding. It works a treat. > > Regards, > > Ted > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "brentswain38" wrote: > > > > Stainless there is a good idea, just hard to cut the hole in it , unless you have plasma. I see no problem with 308 rods . I've never had any problem with them. > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "jpronk1" wrote: > > > > > > For the bow mooring bit should I make the 12"x12"x1/4" doubler plate out of stainless steel? > > > Also has anyone had any problems welding 316 to 304 stainless steel with 308L electrodes? > > > Thank you, > > > James > > > > > > | 21406|14271|2009-10-22 16:18:34|BrianC|Hydrostatic drive|Just wondering of any success stories of hydrostatic drives, It seems like it should be simple enough to mate a pump to one of the surplus engines , add a selector valve a resevoir a motor and a few hoses and you should be in . I remember seeing a twin keel with a prop on each keel, I think it was in Nanimo, and I beleive it was hydro drive. Any ideas? Brian| 21407|14271|2009-10-22 16:56:27|David Frantz|Re: Hydrostatic drive|Hi Brian; Hydrostatic or hydraulic drives have their good points but effiecency isn't one of them. That may not be a problem for a sale boat though. In any event Please understand my comments are based on what I know from industrial uses. On the plus side hydraulic motors can put a lot of power into a small space. This would make possible putting the screw shafts into things like the keel. You could also effectively seal off the hyd motor and shaft gland from the rest of the ship thus greatly reducing one potential way to sink your boat. The big problem I see is that doing this cheaply is all but impossible. Especially if you implement a high pressure high volume system that can effectively drive the ship. The first thing you run into is the need for a variable displacement pump followed quickly by the required servo controls. As to the oil you could implement something similar to skef cooling for the resivour. But there is the problem of oil temp Which ideally runs at around 110 F. So you would likely need a smaller resivour that keeps the temp constant and the controls to divert oil for cooling. Note the above is for a full scale propulsion system that would operate for extended periods. Something like a hydraulic bow drive could be extremely simple. Things get complex when you want to drive a couple screws, a bow drive and a few whinches from the same power system. For one you need velocity control. The other thing I would question is the suitability of some hyd components for marine use. I'm sure there are specials for that but likely at a cost. In any event it isn't like hydraulics are never seen in Marine use, I'm just thinking that it is likly to be a little expensive if you have to buy everything new. David A Frantz websterindustro@... Sent from my iPhone. On Oct 22, 2009, at 4:18 PM, BrianC wrote: > Just wondering of any success stories of hydrostatic drives, It > seems like it should be simple enough to mate a pump to one of the > surplus engines , add a selector valve a resevoir a motor and a few > hoses and you should be in . I remember seeing a twin keel with a > prop on each keel, I think it was in Nanimo, and I beleive it was > hydro drive. > Any ideas? > Brian > > > > ------------------------------------ > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.comYahoo > ! Groups Links > > > | 21408|14271|2009-10-22 17:06:47|Mark|Re: Hydrostatic drive|I see no advantage; I've pulled wrenches on farm equipment with hydrostatic drives. The repair cost alone would keep me away. Then oil under high pressure working at high temps in a small space. A cracked line spraying a fine oil mist is big fire danger. The normal operating noise would make you deaf in a confined space.   --- On Thu, 10/22/09, BrianC wrote: From: BrianC Subject: [origamiboats] Hydrostatic drive To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, October 22, 2009, 3:18 PM   Just wondering of any success stories of hydrostatic drives, It seems like it should be simple enough to mate a pump to one of the surplus engines , add a selector valve a resevoir a motor and a few hoses and you should be in . I remember seeing a twin keel with a prop on each keel, I think it was in Nanimo, and I beleive it was hydro drive. Any ideas? Brian [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 21409|21394|2009-10-22 17:09:20|edward|Re: Mooring bit|James, I have cut larger holes in stainless sheet using a 4" cutting disc that is now not 4" and almost only fit to dump. Its small radius means it can cut quite a small circle. Mark the circle on the sheet then use the cutting disc to cut a slightly smaller circle than required. It will be a bit rough but can be ground to the correct size as per the circle marked out using a worn down grinding disc. Regards, Ted --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "jpronk1" wrote: > > Thanks Ted > One school that I was teaching at had two cases of 1/8 308L and one of 309L that they throw into the scrap dumpster. > I"ll give the 309 a try but I am saving it for when I start assemble the boat. > James > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "edward" wrote: > > > > James and all, > > > > I use 309L with a DC welder for stainless to stainless and to mild steel welding. It works a treat. > > > > Regards, > > > > Ted > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "brentswain38" wrote: > > > > > > Stainless there is a good idea, just hard to cut the hole in it , unless you have plasma. I see no problem with 308 rods . I've never had any problem with them. > > > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "jpronk1" wrote: > > > > > > > > For the bow mooring bit should I make the 12"x12"x1/4" doubler plate out of stainless steel? > > > > Also has anyone had any problems welding 316 to 304 stainless steel with 308L electrodes? > > > > Thank you, > > > > James > > > > > > > > > > | 21410|21393|2009-10-22 21:42:39|Paul Wilson|Re: Self Steering|It sounds like you can cut more notches if you have a 6 inch wheel but if you are having trouble, there is another way....You can have more than one tab fits into the notches on the self steering gear...For instance if you had 5 degree notches with a 1/8 inch gap between the notches, having two tabs that engage into the nothches with a 1/16 offset between them would give you 2.5 degree resolution when you change from one tab to the other....I have this arrangement and it really works well.  It's really nice when you are fine trimming going hard on the wind.   Cheers, Paul --- On Wed, 10/21/09, jpronk1 wrote: From: jpronk1 Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Self Steering To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Received: Wednesday, October 21, 2009, 6:39 PM   I have about 3/8 between the notches so I will cut more between the ones I have, thanks Brent. If I run out of small pieces soon I think I will start on the mast. James --- In origamiboats@ yahoogroups. com, "brentswain38" wrote: > > I use 1/8th notches with 1/8th of an inch of metal between them. As a boat wanders a but , closer notches are not neccessarily a huge advantage. If you have a lot of metal between the notches , by all means cut more. If not, don't worry about it. > Brent > > --- In origamiboats@ yahoogroups. com, "jpronk1" wrote: > > > > I'm working on the self steering gear right now. I have 24 notches in the 6" diameter notched wheel. I was looking at the photos of Brent's in his book and on the plans it looks like he has a lot more. Should I have about 48 notches? I guess it will give me much finer adjustment and the ability to steer a more accurate course. > > James > > > __________________________________________________________________ Looking for the perfect gift? Give the gift of Flickr! http://www.flickr.com/gift/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 21411|21393|2009-10-22 22:57:05|Gary H. Lucas|Re: Self Steering|You could cut another smaller round disk, slot it to the center and twist it into a screw shape. Then bolt that between a couple of fiber washers at right angles to the first disk, to make it stay in position but adjust easily. It then works like a worm gear, and you don't need as many slots. Gary H. Lucas ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Wilson" To: Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 9:42 PM Subject: Re: [origamiboats] Re: Self Steering It sounds like you can cut more notches if you have a 6 inch wheel but if you are having trouble, there is another way....You can have more than one tab fits into the notches on the self steering gear...For instance if you had 5 degree notches with a 1/8 inch gap between the notches, having two tabs that engage into the nothches with a 1/16 offset between them would give you 2.5 degree resolution when you change from one tab to the other....I have this arrangement and it really works well. It's really nice when you are fine trimming going hard on the wind. Cheers, Paul --- On Wed, 10/21/09, jpronk1 wrote: From: jpronk1 Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Self Steering To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Received: Wednesday, October 21, 2009, 6:39 PM I have about 3/8 between the notches so I will cut more between the ones I have, thanks Brent. If I run out of small pieces soon I think I will start on the mast. James --- In origamiboats@ yahoogroups. com, "brentswain38" wrote: > > I use 1/8th notches with 1/8th of an inch of metal between them. As a boat > wanders a but , closer notches are not neccessarily a huge advantage. If > you have a lot of metal between the notches , by all means cut more. If > not, don't worry about it. > Brent > > --- In origamiboats@ yahoogroups. com, "jpronk1" wrote: > > > > I'm working on the self steering gear right now. I have 24 notches in > > the 6" diameter notched wheel. I was looking at the photos of Brent's in > > his book and on the plans it looks like he has a lot more. Should I have > > about 48 notches? I guess it will give me much finer adjustment and the > > ability to steer a more accurate course. > > James > > > __________________________________________________________________ Looking for the perfect gift? Give the gift of Flickr! http://www.flickr.com/gift/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 21412|21412|2009-10-23 01:32:31|wild_explorer|Lead for ballast - US west coast|Brent's suggestion was to start collect lead ASAP as a first step. I took a look for a scrap lead on Internet and found some 500,000 Lb of lead for $150 ??? in WA area. I believe, it is need to be picked up and this could be a problem (island location ?). If somebody looking for lead for boat building and interested to split the cost of delivery and able to keep it in some location, I would be interested in splitting total cost for it (delivered to mainland). It might be cheaper than to pay ~ 20-30c/Lb locally (in USA). Does anybody has resources to pick it up and store it for future use? I would pay $150 for this hole lot - just to get my share of lead for the ballast when I need it ;)) Any takers? Let me know ;) The link is http://www.recycle.net/Metal-N/Lead/xv050700.html look for: AVAILABLE : LA906211 Shipping Pt. / Location: USA, PUGET SOUND WA 500,000 Lb for $150 P.S. There is another lot at East coast (Maine)- 79,000 Lb for $150 AVAILABLE : LA906232 Shipping Pt. / Location: USA, KITTERY ME| 21413|21413|2009-10-23 01:53:35|wild_explorer|Are there BS36 owners or builders on US West coast (NorCA, OR, WA)?|I am in "research mode" for BS36. Are there owners or someone who is building BS36 in steel in US West coast? I would like to get in touch with such people. It would be ideal to take a look on finished BS 36, or even better, BS36 under construction. What happened with "BS-Land boatyard" project (where was suggested to find a location where Brent's design boats would be built by prospective BS' owners under supervision of experienced builder)? Did it took off? I am still reading first 1,000 messages of > 20K on this board.| 21414|21412|2009-10-23 08:39:02|smithconsulting41|Re: Lead for ballast - US west coast|I live in Ontario and will be looking for lead as well, so if anybody comes across a source in my neck of the wooods, please let me know. I have a couple of questions though. #1 how much lead will I need for an aluminium 40 footer twin keel. #2 the plans call for a mast 52 ft. above the cabin, so what diameter and wall thichness of aluminium pipe should I be sourcing. Russell --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "wild_explorer" wrote: > > Brent's suggestion was to start collect lead ASAP as a first step. > > I took a look for a scrap lead on Internet and found some 500,000 Lb of lead for $150 ??? in WA area. I believe, it is need to be picked up and this could be a problem (island location ?). If somebody looking for lead for boat building and interested to split the cost of delivery and able to keep it in some location, I would be interested in splitting total cost for it (delivered to mainland). It might be cheaper than to pay ~ 20-30c/Lb locally (in USA). > > Does anybody has resources to pick it up and store it for future use? I would pay $150 for this hole lot - just to get my share of lead for the ballast when I need it ;)) Any takers? Let me know ;) > > The link is http://www.recycle.net/Metal-N/Lead/xv050700.html > > look for: > > AVAILABLE : LA906211 > Shipping Pt. / Location: USA, PUGET SOUND WA > 500,000 Lb for $150 > > P.S. There is another lot at East coast (Maine)- 79,000 Lb for $150 > > AVAILABLE : LA906232 > Shipping Pt. / Location: USA, KITTERY ME > | 21415|21412|2009-10-23 10:35:10|Carl Anderson|Re: Lead for ballast - US west coast|My guess from going over the inertia moments on the 36 would be to use 6" sch 40. That is what I used and the moment is nearly twice what is needed on a 36 but EVERYTHING on my boat is overkill. Carl sv-mom.com smithconsulting41 wrote: > > > I live in Ontario and will be looking for lead as well, so if anybody > comes across a source in my neck of the wooods, please let me know. I > have a couple of questions though. #1 how much lead will I need for an > aluminium 40 footer twin keel. #2 the plans call for a mast 52 ft. above > the cabin, so what diameter and wall thichness of aluminium pipe should > I be sourcing. > > Russell > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > , "wild_explorer" > wrote: > > > > Brent's suggestion was to start collect lead ASAP as a first step. > > > > I took a look for a scrap lead on Internet and found some 500,000 Lb > of lead for $150 ??? in WA area. I believe, it is need to be picked up > and this could be a problem (island location ?). If somebody looking for > lead for boat building and interested to split the cost of delivery and > able to keep it in some location, I would be interested in splitting > total cost for it (delivered to mainland). It might be cheaper than to > pay ~ 20-30c/Lb locally (in USA). > > > > Does anybody has resources to pick it up and store it for future use? > I would pay $150 for this hole lot - just to get my share of lead for > the ballast when I need it ;)) Any takers? Let me know ;) > > > > The link is http://www.recycle.net/Metal-N/Lead/xv050700.html > > > > > look for: > > > > AVAILABLE : LA906211 > > Shipping Pt. / Location: USA, PUGET SOUND WA > > 500,000 Lb for $150 > > > > P.S. There is another lot at East coast (Maine)- 79,000 Lb for $150 > > > > AVAILABLE : LA906232 > > Shipping Pt. / Location: USA, KITTERY ME > > > > | 21416|14271|2009-10-23 11:42:15|Denis Buggy|Re: Hydrostatic drive|hydro drive is brilliant for its job of protecting machinery from abuse as there are no gear teeth or clutches to abuse and you generally cannot stall the engine , however and there is a big however the system is not efficient for extended use at sea and there are hydraulic forums which will tell you how much horsepower is lost by trying to pump power instead of directly transmitting it .regards denis ----- Original Message ----- From: BrianC To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 9:18 PM Subject: [origamiboats] Hydrostatic drive Just wondering of any success stories of hydrostatic drives, It seems like it should be simple enough to mate a pump to one of the surplus engines , add a selector valve a resevoir a motor and a few hoses and you should be in . I remember seeing a twin keel with a prop on each keel, I think it was in Nanimo, and I beleive it was hydro drive. Any ideas? Brian [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 21417|14271|2009-10-23 11:51:32|Hike|Re: Hydrostatic drive|I would remind you that all excavators, dozers and scrapers are powered though Hydro drives.... ----- Original Message ----- From: Denis Buggy To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, October 23, 2009 8:42 AM Subject: Re: [origamiboats] Hydrostatic drive hydro drive is brilliant for its job of protecting machinery from abuse as there are no gear teeth or clutches to abuse and you generally cannot stall the engine , however and there is a big however the system is not efficient for extended use at sea and there are hydraulic forums which will tell you how much horsepower is lost by trying to pump power instead of directly transmitting it .regards denis ----- Original Message ----- From: BrianC To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 9:18 PM Subject: [origamiboats] Hydrostatic drive Just wondering of any success stories of hydrostatic drives, It seems like it should be simple enough to mate a pump to one of the surplus engines , add a selector valve a resevoir a motor and a few hoses and you should be in . I remember seeing a twin keel with a prop on each keel, I think it was in Nanimo, and I beleive it was hydro drive. Any ideas? Brian [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 21418|14271|2009-10-23 12:07:58|Denis Buggy|Re: Hydrostatic drive|----- Original Message ----- From: Hike To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, October 23, 2009 4:50 PM Subject: Re: [origamiboats] Hydrostatic drive I would remind you that all excavators, dozers and scrapers are powered though Hydro drives.... ----- Original Message ----- From: Denis Buggy To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, October 23, 2009 8:42 AM Subject: Re: [origamiboats] Hydrostatic drive hydro drive is brilliant for its job of protecting machinery from abuse as there are no gear teeth or clutches to abuse and you generally cannot stall the engine , NO NEED TO REMIND ME MERELY READ THE FIRST FEW LINES OF MY POSTING. D beeremoved] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 21419|21412|2009-10-23 12:50:50|mark hamill|Re: Lead for ballast - US west coast|Is this lead radioactive--seriously??? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]| 21420|14271|2009-10-23 14:01:10|smithconsulting41|Re: Hydrostatic drive|True enough hydraulic drives are used in everything from lawn tractors, construction equipment to city buses. The major problem is that propeller pitch is theoretical due to "propeller slip" (approx. 40 to 85 % given load, rpm, boat bottom condition etc, etc. as you all know. Now throw in a drive system that on a good day is 85% efficient given good pump clearance, fluid with corret viscosity, fluid temperature, line size, on and on and on. Why are they used in construction equipment? Well just imagine a backhoe that operated the boom and bucket with sprockets and chains, gears and shafts, or belts and pulleys. Not going to happen. The manufacturer says go hydraulic suffer the losses and crank up the additional diesel hp. Russell --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Denis Buggy" wrote: > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Hike > To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Friday, October 23, 2009 4:50 PM > Subject: Re: [origamiboats] Hydrostatic drive > > > I would remind you that all excavators, dozers and scrapers are powered though Hydro drives.... > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Denis Buggy > To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Friday, October 23, 2009 8:42 AM > Subject: Re: [origamiboats] Hydrostatic drive > > hydro drive is brilliant for its job of protecting machinery from abuse as there are no gear teeth or clutches to abuse and you generally cannot stall the engine , > NO NEED TO REMIND ME MERELY READ THE FIRST FEW LINES OF MY POSTING. D > beeremoved] > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > | 21421|21412|2009-10-23 17:52:22|wild_explorer|Re: Lead for ballast - US west coast|I would not be very surprised if it is ;) It is offered by department of defense. TO ALL: These lots I mentioned ARE ALREADY SOLD. $150 was starting bid price. I do not know final price - do not ask. Only one person who is interested in led for ballast at this time e-mailed me. If more people want to be on a list - send me e-mail. If I find something REAL - I let you know. It might be cheaper to split the cost. --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "mark hamill" wrote: > > Is this lead radioactive--seriously??? > | 21422|21422|2009-10-23 20:37:56|theboilerflue|interesting water/wind gen|http://www.duogen.co.uk/arcsurv.htm Here's an interesting dual generator that I'm sure one could make pretty easily.| 21423|21413|2009-10-23 21:11:33|theboilerflue|Re: Are there BS36 owners or builders on US West coast (NorCA, OR, W|In Olympia there's a 36' single keeler, it's blue and at the most northern marina on the eastern shore near downtown. --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "wild_explorer" wrote: > > I am in "research mode" for BS36. Are there owners or someone who is building BS36 in steel in US West coast? I would like to get in touch with such people. It would be ideal to take a look on finished BS 36, or even better, BS36 under construction. > > What happened with "BS-Land boatyard" project (where was suggested to find a location where Brent's design boats would be built by prospective BS' owners under supervision of experienced builder)? Did it took off? I am still reading first 1,000 messages of > 20K on this board. > | 21424|21413|2009-10-24 01:31:50|wild_explorer|Re: Are there BS36 owners or builders on US West coast (NorCA, OR, W|Olympia, WA I guess... (not Olympia, CA)? Does anybody knows e-mail of the owner? --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "theboilerflue" wrote: > > In Olympia there's a 36' single keeler, it's blue and at the most northern marina on the eastern shore near downtown. > | 21425|14271|2009-10-24 07:00:20|BrianC|Re: Hydrostatic drive|Thanks to all for the input, I guess I will keep looking for a good used conventional Diesel. Keep It simple. Brian --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "smithconsulting41" wrote: > > True enough hydraulic drives are used in everything from lawn tractors, construction equipment to city buses. The major problem is that propeller pitch is theoretical due to "propeller slip" (approx. 40 to 85 % given load, rpm, boat bottom condition etc, etc. as you all know. Now throw in a drive system that on a good day is 85% efficient given good pump clearance, fluid with corret viscosity, fluid temperature, line size, on and on and on. > Why are they used in construction equipment? Well just imagine a backhoe that operated the boom and bucket with sprockets and chains, gears and shafts, or belts and pulleys. Not going to happen. The manufacturer says go hydraulic suffer the losses and crank up the additional diesel hp. > > Russell > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Denis Buggy" wrote: > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Hike > > To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Friday, October 23, 2009 4:50 PM > > Subject: Re: [origamiboats] Hydrostatic drive > > > > > > I would remind you that all excavators, dozers and scrapers are powered though Hydro drives.... > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Denis Buggy > > To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Friday, October 23, 2009 8:42 AM > > Subject: Re: [origamiboats] Hydrostatic drive > > > > hydro drive is brilliant for its job of protecting machinery from abuse as there are no gear teeth or clutches to abuse and you generally cannot stall the engine , > > NO NEED TO REMIND ME MERELY READ THE FIRST FEW LINES OF MY POSTING. D > > beeremoved] > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > | 21426|21412|2009-10-24 12:10:04|theboilerflue|Re: Lead for ballast - US west coast|On Pangea harvey used really big tube like 10 inch or so. --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "smithconsulting41" wrote: > > I live in Ontario and will be looking for lead as well, so if anybody comes across a source in my neck of the wooods, please let me know. I have a couple of questions though. #1 how much lead will I need for an aluminium 40 footer twin keel. #2 the plans call for a mast 52 ft. above the cabin, so what diameter and wall thichness of aluminium pipe should I be sourcing. > > Russell > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "wild_explorer" wrote: > > > > Brent's suggestion was to start collect lead ASAP as a first step. > > > > I took a look for a scrap lead on Internet and found some 500,000 Lb of lead for $150 ??? in WA area. I believe, it is need to be picked up and this could be a problem (island location ?). If somebody looking for lead for boat building and interested to split the cost of delivery and able to keep it in some location, I would be interested in splitting total cost for it (delivered to mainland). It might be cheaper than to pay ~ 20-30c/Lb locally (in USA). > > > > Does anybody has resources to pick it up and store it for future use? I would pay $150 for this hole lot - just to get my share of lead for the ballast when I need it ;)) Any takers? Let me know ;) > > > > The link is http://www.recycle.net/Metal-N/Lead/xv050700.html > > > > look for: > > > > AVAILABLE : LA906211 > > Shipping Pt. / Location: USA, PUGET SOUND WA > > 500,000 Lb for $150 > > > > P.S. There is another lot at East coast (Maine)- 79,000 Lb for $150 > > > > AVAILABLE : LA906232 > > Shipping Pt. / Location: USA, KITTERY ME > > > | 21427|21427|2009-10-24 18:18:44|svfrolic|BS36|I have just found it. Maybe somebody is interested: http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listing/boatFullDetails.jsp?boat_id=2101280&ybw=&units=Feet&access=Public&listing_id=64229&url=| 21428|21428|2009-10-24 23:45:59|mochilero2|hard dinghy on a 31?|Where is the best place to store a hard dinghy on a BS31 for offshore? Whats a practical dinghy length? thanks, Rick| 21429|21427|2009-10-25 12:16:00|theboilerflue|Re: BS36|Seems about two thousand pounds lighter than mine must be that damn heavy pilot house and life rails that they forgot to put in ;) --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "svfrolic" wrote: > > I have just found it. Maybe somebody is interested: > http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listing/boatFullDetails.jsp?boat_id=2101280&ybw=&units=Feet&access=Public&listing_id=64229&url= > | 21430|21427|2009-10-25 12:22:44|theboilerflue|Re: BS36|I know a couple that bought a steel boat with life rails like that with a line run through the stanchions, they had to replace the stanchions and the cap rail (all stainless) cause water had come in the holes for the cable, filled the stanchion starved of oxygen and rusted through into the cap rail, filling it of oxygen starved water, then rusted out bottom of the cap rail.| 21431|21412|2009-10-25 12:26:51|Carl Anderson|Re: Lead for ballast - US west coast|Pangea, a 50' aluminum origami hull, has a mast made from 8" sch 40 aluminum pipe 70' long per the mast builder (same guy that did the mast on MOM). Carl sv-mom.com theboilerflue wrote: > > > On Pangea harvey used really big tube like 10 inch or so. > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > , "smithconsulting41" > wrote: > > > > I live in Ontario and will be looking for lead as well, so if anybody > comes across a source in my neck of the wooods, please let me know. I > have a couple of questions though. #1 how much lead will I need for an > aluminium 40 footer twin keel. #2 the plans call for a mast 52 ft. above > the cabin, so what diameter and wall thichness of aluminium pipe should > I be sourcing. > > > > Russell > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > , "wild_explorer" > wrote: > > > > > > Brent's suggestion was to start collect lead ASAP as a first step. > > > > > > I took a look for a scrap lead on Internet and found some 500,000 > Lb of lead for $150 ??? in WA area. I believe, it is need to be picked > up and this could be a problem (island location ?). If somebody looking > for lead for boat building and interested to split the cost of delivery > and able to keep it in some location, I would be interested in splitting > total cost for it (delivered to mainland). It might be cheaper than to > pay ~ 20-30c/Lb locally (in USA). > > > > > > Does anybody has resources to pick it up and store it for future > use? I would pay $150 for this hole lot - just to get my share of lead > for the ballast when I need it ;)) Any takers? Let me know ;) > > > > > > The link is http://www.recycle.net/Metal-N/Lead/xv050700.html > > > > > > > look for: > > > > > > AVAILABLE : LA906211 > > > Shipping Pt. / Location: USA, PUGET SOUND WA > > > 500,000 Lb for $150 > > > > > > P.S. There is another lot at East coast (Maine)- 79,000 Lb for $150 > > > > > > AVAILABLE : LA906232 > > > Shipping Pt. / Location: USA, KITTERY ME > > > > > > > | 21432|14271|2009-10-25 17:19:48|martin demers|Re: Hydrostatic drive|There is a Carter 30 for sale in my area, and it is using hydraulic propeller driven from a pump fitted to a fairyman engine. Martin. To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com From: brianchabassol@... Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2009 11:00:17 +0000 Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Hydrostatic drive Thanks to all for the input, I guess I will keep looking for a good used conventional Diesel. Keep It simple. Brian --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "smithconsulting41" wrote: > > True enough hydraulic drives are used in everything from lawn tractors, construction equipment to city buses. The major problem is that propeller pitch is theoretical due to "propeller slip" (approx. 40 to 85 % given load, rpm, boat bottom condition etc, etc. as you all know. Now throw in a drive system that on a good day is 85% efficient given good pump clearance, fluid with corret viscosity, fluid temperature, line size, on and on and on. > Why are they used in construction equipment? Well just imagine a backhoe that operated the boom and bucket with sprockets and chains, gears and shafts, or belts and pulleys. Not going to happen. The manufacturer says go hydraulic suffer the losses and crank up the additional diesel hp. > > Russell > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Denis Buggy" wrote: > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Hike > > To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Friday, October 23, 2009 4:50 PM > > Subject: Re: [origamiboats] Hydrostatic drive > > > > > > I would remind you that all excavators, dozers and scrapers are powered though Hydro drives.... > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Denis Buggy > > To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Friday, October 23, 2009 8:42 AM > > Subject: Re: [origamiboats] Hydrostatic drive > > > > hydro drive is brilliant for its job of protecting machinery from abuse as there are no gear teeth or clutches to abuse and you generally cannot stall the engine , > > NO NEED TO REMIND ME MERELY READ THE FIRST FEW LINES OF MY POSTING. D > > beeremoved] > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > _________________________________________________________________ Vous étudiez dans un établissement collégial ou universitaire canadien? Obtenez Windows 7 pour aussi peu que 39,99 $ avant le 3 janvier! Achetez-le maintenant. http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9691646 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 21433|21433|2009-10-25 23:31:08|Bob Wills|galvinised steel plate|Two week ago I sent a question to all the blogers about the use of galvanizes steel plate. I did not see any one reply. I have a friend that has a 30 foot boat that is twenty years old and the only problems he had had is in the Kiel were water stays all the time. the fix was to weld on a patch. The inside of the boat is not foamed so all is available to see and it looks as new. Manufactures make water tanks that last for years so why not small boats?   Is this a odd Idea or has any one tired It? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]| 21434|21433|2009-10-26 06:55:54|gcode fi (hanermo)|Re: galvinised steel plate|I have no personal experience with galvanised boats, but ... Galvanising is a very resistant protection against chemical corrosion, including in sea water, thats why anchor chains use it. It is less resistant against mechanical wear, thats why anchor chains wear out. And once the surface galvanising wears out, the rest goes much faster. Welding the inside of a galvanised hull means you must have a full supplied air respiration. IF you do, I cannot see any disadvantages. It is uncomfortable, but so is welding the inside of any hull. However, the weld seems will not be galvanised, thus I would expect you need to grind, prime and paint them. Also, I dont expect that the hull outside can be left as-is due to marine growth so ... So on balance I dont expect it´s worth the bother, but if a hull is galvanised I cannot see that it hurts. From a materials, engineering perspective, thats is. If you need to do all the work inside and out for paint anyway, I cant see that galvanising is of help, and care must be taken to do good prep work re: priming. So you get extra work priming, extra work in welding insides with absolute need for supplied air ventilation of some kind, and the material is more expensive to start with. So from my perspective, it´s not a Q of is it not done, but rather what would you gain with it ? The issue changes a bit if for example you live somewhere where galvanised steel is cheaply (surplus) available, or only galvanised steel is available (shipping cost), or you find a pile for free and cannot easily sell it. Again, I don´t think the steel advantage is very important ... as all other costs together are (far) more important than a small base cost difference in the hull material, whether + or minus. I, myself, would rather not work on or with galvanised for a hull - I have built steel doors (my workshop) and gates (a friend) with galvanised. I did not find it difficult, and could work in open air so welding was not a problem re: fumes. IF galvanised was the only option, the really truly only option, I would go for it. From everything I have seen, the nr1. reason for failures in large boat projects, is lack of money to finish the job properly. Unless one can finish the job, all work and effort is unfortunately wasted, and most of the material costs as well. Thus I believe that planning and an adequate cushion moneywise is the only way you can be reasonably sure you can finish the job. Situtations change, and as long as the project can be finished well, so the result is worth something, I dont see a problem for example taking a loan to finish the boat, using hired labour if necessary, than selling it to recover some (maybe most) of your costs while paying off the loan. This is one of three roads I see as successful boatbuilding - Plan an exit strategy How can I recoup some or most of my investment - Do it as a hobby from extra income I does not matter how much time and effort it takes, as I am doing it on the side for fun and eventual use - Build it for a house, ie primary residence It does not matter how much it costs. I will go hell-for-leather, full time, and move aboard when it works. I will have a way to live (maybe cheaper) and have a plan on how to support myself when on-board, whether moving or stationary, marina or not. I think any of the three tactics is valid. Failure to plan for one of the three, is probably the nr 1 error. Nr 2. is not knowing in advance what I will need to finish (everything), and what it will cost (in time and money). Bob Wills wrote: > > > Two week ago I sent a question to all the blogers about the use of > galvanizes steel plate. I did not see any one reply. I have a friend > that has a 30 foot boat that is twenty years old and the only problems > he had had is in the Kiel were water stays all the time. the fix was > to weld on a patch. The inside of the boat is not foamed so all is > available to see and it looks as new. > Manufactures make water tanks that last for years so why not small boats? > > Is this a odd Idea or has any one tired It? > > | 21435|21433|2009-10-26 08:11:17|audeojude|Re: galvinised steel plate|It does work but you won't see it much because of the danger of welding galvanized steel. Welding through the galvanization produces very poisonous fumes. Scott --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Bob Wills wrote: > > Two week ago I sent a question to all the blogers about the use of galvanizes steel plate. I did not see any one reply. I have a friend that has a 30 foot boat that is twenty years old and the only problems he had had is in the Kiel were water stays all the time. the fix was to weld on a patch. The inside of the boat is not foamed so all is available to see and it looks as new. > Manufactures make water tanks that last for years so why not small boats? >   > Is this a odd Idea or has any one tired It? > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > | 21436|21433|2009-10-26 10:06:54|edward|Re: galvinised steel plate|Hi Bob, Assuming you are talking about hot dip galvanising where the item is pickled in acid then lowered into a bath of molten zinc then one is constrained by the size of the available galvanising bath. With welded items of relatively thinness such as a boat or tank then the stresses caused by the welding on being reheated by the molten zinc tend to warp or twist the sheet steel. Often water tanks were riveted rather than welded to overcome this problem. Some boats I understand have been hot spray galvanised but now with good epoxy paints available it is not common. Some people have welded together pregalvanised steel plate but there is the fume problem with this. There is also the problem of getting paint to stick to galvanised sheet without weathering it or the use of mordant mixture. This topic comes up now and again on this forum and if you track back you should find a more detailed discussion. Regards, Ted| 21437|21433|2009-10-26 11:39:32|Stymied|Re: galvinised steel plate|You can do your welding, sandblast the seams then flame spray with a Metco gun or similar. This literally coats the metal with an aerosol of molten zinc, galvanizing it. I have a Metco gun I might rent if you want to do this but it's really taking the long way around. In any case there is no reason to start with galvanized metal because the welding will burn it off. --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Bob Wills wrote: > > Two week ago I sent a question to all the blogers about the use of galvanizes steel plate. I did not see any one reply. I have a friend that has a 30 foot boat that is twenty years old and the only problems he had had is in the Kiel were water stays all the time. the fix was to weld on a patch. The inside of the boat is not foamed so all is available to see and it looks as new. > Manufactures make water tanks that last for years so why not small boats? >   > Is this a odd Idea or has any one tired It? > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > | 21438|21433|2009-10-26 11:39:44|Tom Mann|Re: galvinised steel plate|Hello Bob I thought about doing another 26 with galvanized material, one problem is around here you can only get 4x12' 10 gage, thats the biggest and thiclest you can get off the shelf anything else would have to be hot dipped "expensive and heavy" . There is allso some issues with using it underwater. At one time it was supposed to be the cats meow in building steel boats but then they figured it wasnt so. cant beat sandblasted and epoxied. Lots of pro's and con's and a lot of counterdictory info on the subject. Good luck Tom On Sun, Oct 25, 2009 at 7:31 PM, Bob Wills wrote: > Two week ago I sent a question to all the blogers about the use of > galvanizes steel plate. I did not see any one reply. I have a friend that > has a 30 foot boat that is twenty years old and the only problems he had had > is in the Kiel were water stays all the time. the fix was to weld on a > patch. The inside of the boat is not foamed so all is available to see and > it looks as new. > Manufactures make water tanks that last for years so why not small boats? > > Is this a odd Idea or has any one tired It? > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.comYahoo! Groups Links > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 21439|21433|2009-10-26 15:03:11|A Ellzey|Re: galvinised steel plate|Welding or cutting galvanized is a hazardous operation even in the open air. I believe the effects of breathing zinc fumes is cumulative. I am much more sensitive to them now than I was as a young man. I would not weld galvanized anywhere without full respiratory protection. Alan ________________________________ From: gcode fi (hanermo) To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Sent: Mon, October 26, 2009 6:55:21 AM Subject: Re: [origamiboats] galvinised steel plate I have no personal experience with galvanised boats, but ... Galvanising is a very resistant protection against chemical corrosion, including in sea water, thats why anchor chains use it. It is less resistant against mechanical wear, thats why anchor chains wear out. And once the surface galvanising wears out, the rest goes much faster. Welding the inside of a galvanised hull means you must have a full supplied air respiration. IF you do, I cannot see any disadvantages. It is uncomfortable, but so is welding the inside of any hull. However, the weld seems will not be galvanised, thus I would expect you need to grind, prime and paint them. Also, I dont expect that the hull outside can be left as-is due to marine growth so ... So on balance I dont expect it´s worth the bother, but if a hull is galvanised I cannot see that it hurts. From a materials, engineering perspective, thats is. If you need to do all the work inside and out for paint anyway, I cant see that galvanising is of help, and care must be taken to do good prep work re: priming. So you get extra work priming, extra work in welding insides with absolute need for supplied air ventilation of some kind, and the material is more expensive to start with. So from my perspective, it´s not a Q of is it not done, but rather what would you gain with it ? The issue changes a bit if for example you live somewhere where galvanised steel is cheaply (surplus) available, or only galvanised steel is available (shipping cost), or you find a pile for free and cannot easily sell it. Again, I don´t think the steel advantage is very important ... as all other costs together are (far) more important than a small base cost difference in the hull material, whether + or minus. I, myself, would rather not work on or with galvanised for a hull - I have built steel doors (my workshop) and gates (a friend) with galvanised. I did not find it difficult, and could work in open air so welding was not a problem re: fumes. IF galvanised was the only option, the really truly only option, I would go for it. From everything I have seen, the nr1. reason for failures in large boat projects, is lack of money to finish the job properly. Unless one can finish the job, all work and effort is unfortunately wasted, and most of the material costs as well. Thus I believe that planning and an adequate cushion moneywise is the only way you can be reasonably sure you can finish the job. Situtations change, and as long as the project can be finished well, so the result is worth something, I dont see a problem for example taking a loan to finish the boat, using hired labour if necessary, than selling it to recover some (maybe most) of your costs while paying off the loan. This is one of three roads I see as successful boatbuilding - Plan an exit strategy How can I recoup some or most of my investment - Do it as a hobby from extra income I does not matter how much time and effort it takes, as I am doing it on the side for fun and eventual use - Build it for a house, ie primary residence It does not matter how much it costs. I will go hell-for-leather, full time, and move aboard when it works. I will have a way to live (maybe cheaper) and have a plan on how to support myself when on-board, whether moving or stationary, marina or not. I think any of the three tactics is valid. Failure to plan for one of the three, is probably the nr 1 error. Nr 2. is not knowing in advance what I will need to finish (everything) , and what it will cost (in time and money). Bob Wills wrote: > > > Two week ago I sent a question to all the blogers about the use of > galvanizes steel plate. I did not see any one reply. I have a friend > that has a 30 foot boat that is twenty years old and the only problems > he had had is in the Kiel were water stays all the time. the fix was > to weld on a patch. The inside of the boat is not foamed so all is > available to see and it looks as new. > Manufactures make water tanks that last for years so why not small boats? > > Is this a odd Idea or has any one tired It? > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]| 21440|21433|2009-10-26 19:52:15|theboilerflue|Re: galvinised steel plate|well since there is very little welding on the hull of an origami boat I don't see why not as long as the paint sticks to it well, if you have to sandblast it right down to the bare metal to make the paint stick adequately then what's the point, maybe a test piece would be in order? Galvanizing is pretty much the thing that we're all trying to accomplish with this 80% zinc rich primer, and make the paint stick. But wear a good respirator as zinc welding is quite toxic, although it'd be a good idea to wear one regardless of the type of metal being welded. If I were to build a boat out of galvanized plate I would still paint it as much as I did for my shop-primed plate, even the inside. --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Bob Wills wrote: > > Two week ago I sent a question to all the blogers about the use of galvanizes steel plate. I did not see any one reply. I have a friend that has a 30 foot boat that is twenty years old and the only problems he had had is in the Kiel were water stays all the time. the fix was to weld on a patch. The inside of the boat is not foamed so all is available to see and it looks as new. > Manufactures make water tanks that last for years so why not small boats? >   > Is this a odd Idea or has any one tired It? > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > | 21441|21433|2009-10-26 20:11:53|theboilerflue|Re: galvinised steel plate|Ha, I like this three road aproach I myself took route No. 3 lacking somewhat on the latter end of the road - a way to support myself, well no a way to keep building the boat. I guess I fell short, into the No. 2 Error: failure to predict total cost to "finish the boat" but there are various degrees to completion ie. floating, motoring, sailing, interior finished and fully decked out with all the "necessary" gizmos one must have. I myself am somewhat now bridging the gap between "sailing" and "building my interior" but at least i'm floating. I don't believe I will even reach the end of the rainbow here as there will always be things I want to do/change/buy on the boat. I have been meaning to for a while collect all my cost building the boat and post them but haven't gotten around to it, but one of these days hopefully it would help someone else in their estimations > This is one of three roads I see as successful boatbuilding > - Plan an exit strategy > How can I recoup some or most of my investment > - Do it as a hobby from extra income > I does not matter how much time and effort it takes, as I am doing it > on the side for fun and eventual use > - Build it for a house, ie primary residence > It does not matter how much it costs. I will go hell-for-leather, full > time, and move aboard when it works. I will have a way to live (maybe > cheaper) and have a plan on how to support myself when on-board, whether > moving or stationary, marina or not. > > I think any of the three tactics is valid. Failure to plan for one of > the three, is probably the nr 1 error. > Nr 2. is not knowing in advance what I will need to finish (everything), > and what it will cost (in time and money). > > > > > Bob Wills wrote: > > > > > > Two week ago I sent a question to all the blogers about the use of > > galvanizes steel plate. I did not see any one reply. I have a friend > > that has a 30 foot boat that is twenty years old and the only problems > > he had had is in the Kiel were water stays all the time. the fix was > > to weld on a patch. The inside of the boat is not foamed so all is > > available to see and it looks as new. > > Manufactures make water tanks that last for years so why not small boats? > > > > Is this a odd Idea or has any one tired It? > > > > > | 21442|21433|2009-10-27 01:03:50|Bob Wills|Re: galvinised steel plate|Thanks for all the replys on the galvinised steel plate idea. It is allways good to get some one else ideas on a subject.   Bob Wills --- On Mon, 10/26/09, Bob Wills wrote: From: Bob Wills Subject: [origamiboats] galvinised steel plate To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, October 26, 2009, 3:31 AM   Two week ago I sent a question to all the blogers about the use of galvanizes steel plate. I did not see any one reply. I have a friend that has a 30 foot boat that is twenty years old and the only problems he had had is in the Kiel were water stays all the time. the fix was to weld on a patch. The inside of the boat is not foamed so all is available to see and it looks as new. Manufactures make water tanks that last for years so why not small boats?   Is this a odd Idea or has any one tired It? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 21443|21433|2009-10-27 05:52:59|Wally Paine|Re: galvinised steel plate|I spent about 10 years welding galvinised sheet metal using MIG in inadequately ventilated welding bays. It didn't do me a lot of good. There are better ways of building boats. Wally Paine --- On Tue, 27/10/09, Bob Wills wrote: From: Bob Wills Subject: Re: [origamiboats] galvinised steel plate To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, 27 October, 2009, 5:03   Thanks for all the replys on the galvinised steel plate idea. It is allways good to get some one else ideas on a subject.   Bob Wills --- On Mon, 10/26/09, Bob Wills wrote: From: Bob Wills Subject: [origamiboats] galvinised steel plate To: origamiboats@ yahoogroups. com Date: Monday, October 26, 2009, 3:31 AM   Two week ago I sent a question to all the blogers about the use of galvanizes steel plate. I did not see any one reply. I have a friend that has a 30 foot boat that is twenty years old and the only problems he had had is in the Kiel were water stays all the time. the fix was to weld on a patch. The inside of the boat is not foamed so all is available to see and it looks as new. Manufactures make water tanks that last for years so why not small boats?   Is this a odd Idea or has any one tired It? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 21444|21444|2009-10-27 11:00:50|SHANE ROTHWELL|Re: BS 36 for sale in Washington state|If anyone is thinking of buying this boat & importing it into Canada, check it out with customs first! When we looked into importing our boat into Canada from Asia in '97, they wanted 50% of the cost based on THEIR evaluation as duty. Sweethearts for sure. At least you can always count on a burocrap to be consistant. > I have just found it. Maybe somebody is interested: > http://www.yachtwor ld.com/core/ listing/boatFull Details.jsp? boat_id=2101280& ybw=&units= Feet&access= Public&listing_ id=64229& url= > __________________________________________________________________ Looking for the perfect gift? Give the gift of Flickr! http://www.flickr.com/gift/| 21445|21444|2009-10-27 11:48:33|Carl Anderson|Re: BS 36 for sale in Washington state|That is because the boat was built in ASIA! If you can prove that the boat was built in USA then NAFTA comes into play and there should be no duty. That was the case with MOM going the other way - no duty under NAFTA rules as it was built in CANADA. Carl sv-mom.com SHANE ROTHWELL wrote: > > > If anyone is thinking of buying this boat & importing it into Canada, > check it out with customs first! When we looked into importing our boat > into Canada from Asia in '97, they wanted 50% of the cost based on THEIR > evaluation as duty. Sweethearts for sure. > > At least you can always count on a burocrap to be consistant. > > > I have just found it. Maybe somebody is interested: > > http://www.yachtwor ld.com/core/ listing/boatFull Details.jsp? > boat_id=2101280& ybw=&units= Feet&access= Public&listing_ id=64229& url= > > > > __________________________________________________________ > Looking for the perfect gift? Give the gift of Flickr! > > http://www.flickr.com/gift/ > > | 21446|21433|2009-10-27 11:58:09|A Ellzey|Re: galvinised steel plate|The damage caused by zinc fumes is cumulative. You become more sensitive to them the more you are exposed. I avoid cutting or welding galvanized. Alan ________________________________ From: Wally Paine To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, October 27, 2009 5:52:52 AM Subject: Re: [origamiboats] galvinised steel plate I spent about 10 years welding galvinised sheet metal using MIG in inadequately ventilated welding bays. It didn't do me a lot of good. There are better ways of building boats. Wally Paine --- On Tue, 27/10/09, Bob Wills wrote: From: Bob Wills Subject: Re: [origamiboats] galvinised steel plate To: origamiboats@ yahoogroups. com Date: Tuesday, 27 October, 2009, 5:03 Thanks for all the replys on the galvinised steel plate idea. It is allways good to get some one else ideas on a subject. Bob Wills --- On Mon, 10/26/09, Bob Wills wrote: From: Bob Wills Subject: [origamiboats] galvinised steel plate To: origamiboats@ yahoogroups. com Date: Monday, October 26, 2009, 3:31 AM Two week ago I sent a question to all the blogers about the use of galvanizes steel plate. I did not see any one reply. I have a friend that has a 30 foot boat that is twenty years old and the only problems he had had is in the Kiel were water stays all the time. the fix was to weld on a patch. The inside of the boat is not foamed so all is available to see and it looks as new. Manufactures make water tanks that last for years so why not small boats? Is this a odd Idea or has any one tired It? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 21447|21433|2009-10-27 16:04:07|Denis Buggy|Re: galvinised steel plate|Alan and Wally well done with the message re welding galvanize some people will listen some will not I have posted on this for years as my lungs were damaged beyond repair by simply welding in the open some large garage doors I was on a ladder and the welding had to be done 12 inches under my face shield . this happened 22 years ago and 8 days ago I had to speak to some people in a shed where a good deal of metal grinding was taking pl;ace and I breathed particles for no more than a minute and I have had my first nights sleep uninterrupted by coughing last night , you dont get away with screwing your lungs once--- they don't forget . nobody was around to tell me and there are no signs on galvanize sheeting do not weld , pass the knowledge on .regards denis ----- Original Message ----- From: A Ellzey To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, October 27, 2009 3:58 PM Subject: Re: [origamiboats] galvinised steel plate The damage caused by zinc fumes is cumulative. You become more sensitive to them the more you are exposed. I avoid cutting or welding galvanized. Alan ________________________________ From: Wally Paine To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, October 27, 2009 5:52:52 AM Subject: Re: [origamiboats] galvinised steel plate I spent about 10 years welding galvinised sheet metal using MIG in inadequately ventilated welding bays. It didn't do me a lot of good. There are better ways of building boats. Wally Paine --- On Tue, 27/10/09, Bob Wills wrote: From: Bob Wills Subject: Re: [origamiboats] galvinised steel plate To: origamiboats@ yahoogroups. com Date: Tuesday, 27 October, 2009, 5:03 Thanks for all the replys on the galvinised steel plate idea. It is allways good to get some one else ideas on a subject. Bob Wills --- On Mon, 10/26/09, Bob Wills wrote: From: Bob Wills Subject: [origamiboats] galvinised steel plate To: origamiboats@ yahoogroups. com Date: Monday, October 26, 2009, 3:31 AM Two week ago I sent a question to all the blogers about the use of galvanizes steel plate. I did not see any one reply. I have a friend that has a 30 foot boat that is twenty years old and the only problems he had had is in the Kiel were water stays all the time. the fix was to weld on a patch. The inside of the boat is not foamed so all is available to see and it looks as new. Manufactures make water tanks that last for years so why not small boats? Is this a odd Idea or has any one tired It? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 21448|21448|2009-10-27 17:55:49|mark hamill|New Email|Hello all: New email as of this Friday. mhamill1@... Skype: mark.hamill2 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]| 21449|21433|2009-10-27 22:05:06|Paul Wilson|Re: galvinised steel plate|I spent about 3 hours welding my toe rail on outside without a respirator and had nose bleeds that night....welding galvanized steel is nasty business. Cheers, Paul Denis Buggy wrote: > > > Alan and Wally well done with the message re welding galvanize some > people will listen some will not I have posted on this for years as my > lungs were damaged beyond repair by simply welding in the open some > large garage doors > I was on a ladder and the welding had to be done 12 inches under my > face shield . > this happened 22 years ago and 8 days ago I had to speak to some > people in a shed where a good deal of metal grinding was taking pl;ace > and I breathed particles for no more than a minute and I have had my > first nights sleep uninterrupted by coughing last night , you dont get > away with screwing your lungs once--- they don't forget . > nobody was around to tell me and there are no signs on galvanize > sheeting do not weld , pass the knowledge on .regards denis > ----- Original Message ----- > From: A Ellzey > To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Tuesday, October 27, 2009 3:58 PM > Subject: Re: [origamiboats] galvinised steel plate > > The damage caused by zinc fumes is cumulative. You become more > sensitive to them the more you are exposed. I avoid cutting or welding > galvanized. Alan > > ________________________________ > From: Wally Paine > > To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Tue, October 27, 2009 5:52:52 AM > Subject: Re: [origamiboats] galvinised steel plate > > I spent about 10 years welding galvinised sheet metal using MIG in > inadequately ventilated welding bays. It didn't do me a lot of good. > There are better ways of building boats. > Wally Paine > > --- On Tue, 27/10/09, Bob Wills wrote: > > From: Bob Wills > Subject: Re: [origamiboats] galvinised steel plate > To: origamiboats@ yahoogroups. com > Date: Tuesday, 27 October, 2009, 5:03 > > Thanks for all the replys on the galvinised steel plate idea. It is > allways good to get some one else ideas on a subject. > > Bob Wills > > --- On Mon, 10/26/09, Bob Wills wrote: > > From: Bob Wills > > Subject: [origamiboats] galvinised steel plate > > To: origamiboats@ yahoogroups. com > > Date: Monday, October 26, 2009, 3:31 AM > > Two week ago I sent a question to all the blogers about the use of > galvanizes steel plate. I did not see any one reply. I have a friend > that has a 30 foot boat that is twenty years old and the only problems > he had had is in the Kiel were water stays all the time. the fix was > to weld on a patch. The inside of the boat is not foamed so all is > available to see and it looks as new. > > Manufactures make water tanks that last for years so why not small boats? > > Is this a odd Idea or has any one tired It? > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.423 / Virus Database: 270.14.33/2461 - Release Date: 10/26/09 20:22:00 > > | 21450|21427|2009-10-27 22:18:11|Paul Wilson|Re: BS36|With solid hand rails, you have none of the corrosion problems since everything is sealed. I owe my life to having solid hand rails. I unclipped once late at night to go below and then stupidly went to pull a line in which I saw was over the side. I was thrown across the boat (it was not a nice night) and landed with my gut across the hand rail and then hung upside down with my feet in the air while I decided how to get back on board. A wire line would have either snapped or bent low enough to make me roll over the side. I was tired and stupid so all I could think was "Geez, that was close". Next day I saw the bend in the rail. Nothing beats solid hand rails for security on deck, IMHO. Cheers, Paul theboilerflue wrote: > > > I know a couple that bought a steel boat with life rails like that > with a line run through the stanchions, they had to replace the > stanchions and the cap rail (all stainless) cause water had come in > the holes for the cable, filled the stanchion starved of oxygen and > rusted through into the cap rail, filling it of oxygen starved water, > then rusted out bottom of the cap rail. > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.423 / Virus Database: 270.14.33/2461 - Release Date: 10/26/09 20:22:00 > > | 21451|21451|2009-10-28 10:13:53|SHANE ROTHWELL|BS36 for sale in Washington state|Hey Carl, Good! Glad to be wrong. I figured it was best to play the devils advocate to hopefully avoid someone getting the burocrap shaft It would be a re-importation. Right you are. Thanks Re: BS 36 for sale in Washington state Posted by: "Carl Anderson" cwa@... cwa99utah Tue Oct 27, 2009 8:48 am (PDT) That is because the boat was built in ASIA! If you can prove that the boat was built in USA then NAFTA comes into play and there should be no duty. That was the case with MOM going the other way - no duty under NAFTA rules as it was built in CANADA. Carl sv-mom.com SHANE ROTHWELL wrote: > > > If anyone is thinking of buying this boat & importing it into Canada, > check it out with customs first! When we looked into importing our boat > into Canada from Asia in '97, they wanted 50% of the cost based on THEIR > evaluation as duty. Sweethearts for sure. > > At least you can always count on a burocrap to be consistant. > __________________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Canada Toolbar: Search from anywhere on the web, and bookmark your favourite sites. Download it now http://ca.toolbar.yahoo.com| 21452|21451|2009-10-28 15:55:24|jeagle999|Re: BS36 for sale in Washington state|My Two cents and the government's 15% There maybe GST and/or PST bring a boat from the USA into Canada! Please check for your self Sorry to be a gadfly --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, SHANE ROTHWELL wrote: > > Hey Carl, > > Good! Glad to be wrong. I figured it was best to play the devils advocate to hopefully avoid someone getting the burocrap shaft > > It would be a re-importation. Right you are. > > Thanks > > > > > Re: BS 36 for sale in Washington state > Posted by: "Carl Anderson" cwa@... cwa99utah > Tue Oct 27, 2009 8:48 am (PDT) > > > That is because the boat was built in ASIA! > If you can prove that the boat was built in USA then NAFTA comes into > play and there should be no duty. > That was the case with MOM going the other way - no duty under NAFTA > rules as it was built in CANADA. > > Carl > sv-mom.com > > SHANE ROTHWELL wrote: > > > > > > If anyone is thinking of buying this boat & importing it into Canada, > > check it out with customs first! When we looked into importing our boat > > into Canada from Asia in '97, they wanted 50% of the cost based on THEIR > > evaluation as duty. Sweethearts for sure. > > > > At least you can always count on a burocrap to be consistant. > > > > > > __________________________________________________________________ > Yahoo! Canada Toolbar: Search from anywhere on the web, and bookmark your favourite sites. Download it now > http://ca.toolbar.yahoo.com > | 21454|21428|2009-10-29 23:24:40|brentswain38|Re: hard dinghy on a 31?|I store a 7ft 6 dinghy behind the mast on one side , just ahead of the wheelhouse. Several of my clients have build Danny Green collapsible two part dinghies out of aluminium and have been very happy with them. Some put their dighies overthe anchor winch and fore hatch, allowing them to leave the forehatch open in rainy weather. They lift the bow of it with a staysail halyard, to use the winch. Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "mochilero2" wrote: > > Where is the best place to store a hard dinghy on a BS31 for offshore? Whats a practical dinghy length? > thanks, > Rick > | 21455|21427|2009-10-29 23:26:34|brentswain38|Re: BS36|Thats why I recommend eyes made of 1/4 inch ss rod welded to the outside of the stanchions. --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "theboilerflue" wrote: > > I know a couple that bought a steel boat with life rails like that with a line run through the stanchions, they had to replace the stanchions and the cap rail (all stainless) cause water had come in the holes for the cable, filled the stanchion starved of oxygen and rusted through into the cap rail, filling it of oxygen starved water, then rusted out bottom of the cap rail. > | 21456|21433|2009-10-29 23:29:08|brentswain38|Re: galvinised steel plate|I used galvanised steel for my decks , cabin and cockpit. For a one off for my own use it was OK , but I wouldbn't do it for a living. --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Bob Wills wrote: > > Two week ago I sent a question to all the blogers about the use of galvanizes steel plate. I did not see any one reply. I have a friend that has a 30 foot boat that is twenty years old and the only problems he had had is in the Kiel were water stays all the time. the fix was to weld on a patch. The inside of the boat is not foamed so all is available to see and it looks as new. > Manufactures make water tanks that last for years so why not small boats? >   > Is this a odd Idea or has any one tired It? > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > | 21457|21444|2009-10-29 23:35:34|brentswain38|Re: BS 36 for sale in Washington state|In the early 70s a USanian couple from Foriduh wanted to sell their Islander 44 in New Zealand. Kiwi customs wanted to do their own assessment , so they made a total mess out of her, then got her evaluated, paid the duty, then cleaned her up and sold her for several times what the beurocruds assessed her at. Beurocruds are not the sharpest tools in the shed. --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, SHANE ROTHWELL wrote: > > If anyone is thinking of buying this boat & importing it into Canada, check it out with customs first! When we looked into importing our boat into Canada from Asia in '97, they wanted 50% of the cost based on THEIR evaluation as duty. Sweethearts for sure. > > At least you can always count on a burocrap to be consistant. > > > > > > I have just found it. Maybe somebody is interested: > > http://www.yachtwor ld.com/core/ listing/boatFull Details.jsp? boat_id=2101280& ybw=&units= Feet&access= Public&listing_ id=64229& url= > > > > > > > __________________________________________________________________ > Looking for the perfect gift? Give the gift of Flickr! > > http://www.flickr.com/gift/ > | 21460|21460|2009-10-31 04:53:12|wild_explorer|Modeling of BS36 - advice needed|I am thinking about making BS36's 1:10 model. Question: If I use 0.5mm (1:10) steel as a hull plate (instead of 5mm as in 1:1 project) would be the weight equal 1:1000? Means: Hull weight 17 Lb (instead of 17,000 Lb) Twin_keels_steel=1.2 Lb(0.6+0.6) + Lead_ballast=4.5 Lb(2.25+2.25) Is it correct? Is there others things I need to take in consideration? The goal is to make the model as close as possible to real project, and test it on water. Be easy on me, I never did any "real" modeling, just paper ;).| 21461|21460|2009-10-31 14:35:46|Stymied|Re: Modeling of BS36 - advice needed|There are at least two designers around here who could explain similitude far better than I can. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Similitude_of_ship_models I do not know why you want to model the weight of your boat unless you are going to do dynamic testing of some sort. Anyway there are equations for similitude of ballast, Skeene has some simple and Larsson & Eliasson have some that go on for pages and pages. You cannot divide by 10, it does not work like that. =^\ You can divide by 10 for dimensions, but you cannot divide by 10 and expect the boat to _behave_ in proportion to its size in the water. At that scale its behavior will be wildly out of whack. I am now on my fourth model of my Tanton 45; I did a crude 1:10 in sheet aluminum flashing material, then a crude 1:6 plywood, then a detailed 1:6 in plastic welded up with a soldering iron which was blown across the yard by a straight line wind and smashed against a fence and destroyed (don't ask) and this last is an extremely detailed 1:6 in sheet transparent Lexan with hot glue. Which I am building in the attic. =^) My goal is to have everything modeled so accurately that I can work out the interior arrangements and deck plan down to the inch, and so that I can build the boat in components--keels, cockpit, house, deck etc all built before the hull then assembled with a gantry at the end. I think you will quickly find it is impossible to model an exact reproduction--how are you going to get hold of 1:10 t-bar or angle, are the tensile strengths of materials in similitude, how are you going to hold the thing together--origami boats do have a lot of framing no matter what people say, the hulls are simpler but the decks and houses are no different. Dealing with framing in a model is very fussy. There are people who can TIG weld beer cans together but you are not one of them, and if you were it would take longer than the actual boat probably. =^) It is very worthwhile to build a model but know what the benefit is going to be so you will know what is worth fussing over and what isn't. Keep me informed, I am interested in your progress. --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "wild_explorer" wrote: > > I am thinking about making BS36's 1:10 model. > > Question: If I use 0.5mm (1:10) steel as a hull plate (instead of 5mm as in 1:1 project) would be the weight equal 1:1000? Means: > > Hull weight 17 Lb (instead of 17,000 Lb) > Twin_keels_steel=1.2 Lb(0.6+0.6) + Lead_ballast=4.5 Lb(2.25+2.25) > > Is it correct? > > Is there others things I need to take in consideration? The goal is to make the model as close as possible to real project, and test it on water. > > Be easy on me, I never did any "real" modeling, just paper ;). > | 21462|21460|2009-10-31 18:30:54|Denis Buggy|Re: Modeling of BS36 - advice needed|this may help hopefully ------ if you choose 6 mill plate for your hull then simply shape as best you can using very available .6 mm galvanize sheeting from your local hardware and simply screw to a wooden keel or pop rivet together and seal the gaps with a tube of silicone . you now have your hull to scale size and weight you can weigh the pieces of rough timber you use to give it a temporary chassis or frame robust enough for some testing in a scaled down sea state and then get a copy of the "" engineers data book"" which gives the weights of box or round or angle or pipe of any given length and wall thickness DIVIDE BY 10 and deduct the weight of your wood frame and distribute scrap metal of the appropriate weight around the boat model wherever you feel appropriate to the use , you should be able to bolt a plastic seat and take a stout umbrella for your sail and off you go . regards denis ----- Original Message ----- From: Stymied To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, October 31, 2009 6:35 PM Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Modeling of BS36 - advice needed There are at least two designers around here who could explain similitude far better than I can. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Similitude_of_ship_models I do not know why you want to model the weight of your boat unless you are going to do dynamic testing of some sort. Anyway there are equations for similitude of ballast, Skeene has some simple and Larsson & Eliasson have some that go on for pages and pages. You cannot divide by 10, it does not work like that. =^\ You can divide by 10 for dimensions, but you cannot divide by 10 and expect the boat to _behave_ in proportion to its size in the water. At that scale its behavior will be wildly out of whack. I am now on my fourth model of my Tanton 45; I did a crude 1:10 in sheet aluminum flashing material, then a crude 1:6 plywood, then a detailed 1:6 in plastic welded up with a soldering iron which was blown across the yard by a straight line wind and smashed against a fence and destroyed (don't ask) and this last is an extremely detailed 1:6 in sheet transparent Lexan with hot glue. Which I am building in the attic. =^) My goal is to have everything modeled so accurately that I can work out the interior arrangements and deck plan down to the inch, and so that I can build the boat in components--keels, cockpit, house, deck etc all built before the hull then assembled with a gantry at the end. I think you will quickly find it is impossible to model an exact reproduction--how are you going to get hold of 1:10 t-bar or angle, are the tensile strengths of materials in similitude, how are you going to hold the thing together--origami boats do have a lot of framing no matter what people say, the hulls are simpler but the decks and houses are no different. Dealing with framing in a model is very fussy. There are people who can TIG weld beer cans together but you are not one of them, and if you were it would take longer than the actual boat probably. =^) It is very worthwhile to build a model but know what the benefit is going to be so you will know what is worth fussing over and what isn't. Keep me informed, I am interested in your progress. --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "wild_explorer" wrote: > > I am thinking about making BS36's 1:10 model. > > Question: If I use 0.5mm (1:10) steel as a hull plate (instead of 5mm as in 1:1 project) would be the weight equal 1:1000? Means: > > Hull weight 17 Lb (instead of 17,000 Lb) > Twin_keels_steel=1.2 Lb(0.6+0.6) + Lead_ballast=4.5 Lb(2.25+2.25) > > Is it correct? > > Is there others things I need to take in consideration? The goal is to make the model as close as possible to real project, and test it on water. > > Be easy on me, I never did any "real" modeling, just paper ;). > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 21463|21460|2009-10-31 21:55:00|wild_explorer|Re: Modeling of BS36 - advice needed|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Stymied" wrote: > > There are at least two designers around here who could explain similitude far better than I can. > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Similitude_of_ship_models Thanks! This is exactly what I was looking for. A little bit more complecated, than I expected, but it is OK. I am glad I was on a right track. > I do not know why you want to model the weight of your boat unless you are going to do dynamic testing of some sort. Anyway there are equations for similitude of ballast, Skeene has some simple and Larsson & Eliasson have some that go on for pages and pages. You cannot divide by 10, it does not work like that. =^\ > Well... As I know, there is still no 3-D model for BS36 (or BS40) to play with. On other hand, building plans are available from Brent. So, the best way to get feeling of building process and fitting interior is scaled model. To be able to try different rig configuration, balancing the hull, etc it is need to have EXACT SCALED model. IF I will decide to build BS36, I will follow ALL Brent's reccomendations UP TO THE LETTER and MAKE ONLY CHANGES APPROVED by him. He has MUCH MORE experience than me. With a model, I can do whatever I want. Make removable deck (to play with interior), try different placement of ballast, engine, etc. And it is greate family project which could be done at home (instead of building yard). I still need to read about 18K messages on this board (which will take several month) + I will not even consider starting real project unless I have ALL DETAILS and know HOW TO DO IT, and possible problems I can run into. > You can divide by 10 for dimensions, but you cannot divide by 10 and expect the boat to _behave_ in proportion to its size in the water. At that scale its behavior will be wildly out of whack. In article (the link you provided) was mentioned that vesseles in scale 1:25 are used for ship's behaivoir research. IT WILL BE VERY CLOSE to real vessel AS LONG AS YOU USE THE SAME (scaled) MATERIALS. Scale 1:10 is bigger and will be more accurate. I only can see one reason scale 1:25 was chosen. It is the fact that 1in=25.4mm and it is easy to convert this scale to both Metric or English measurments. Metric scale make more sense for me, so 1:10 scale of BS36 (BS40) is reasonable choice and manageable size in my case. Means: Scale factor = 10 (1:10) Area factor = 100 (1:100) Volume factor = 1000 (1:1000) Scale factor for mass and displacement = 1000 (1:1000) External forces = 1000 (1:1000) Time factor scale = sqrt (10) = 3.162 (1:3.162) - this one is only not very simple to calculate for 1:10 scale. => model will react ~ 3 time faster than real vessel Power scale - ???? (not sure how calculate it) > > It is very worthwhile to build a model but know what the benefit is going to be so you will know what is worth fussing over and what isn't. The problems I see: - Hull and materials cuts must be done with 10 times more precision than on 1:1 scale - BIG problem. Not sure how to do it precicely and with what tools for 0.5mm steel. - Soldering instead of welding. Could be done with Hi-power soldering iron OR "pensil" propane torch. - Size of small parts could be a problem (angles? 2.5x2.5mm) Anything else???| 21464|21460|2009-10-31 22:03:48|wild_explorer|Re: Modeling of BS36 - advice needed|This will not work. I want model to behave as real vessel. This means, it is need to use same materials and building technology AS CLOSE AS POSSIBLE to original used for real boat building. Thanks for advice on using 0.6mm steel sheet. If I will not be able to find 0.5mm sheet, 0.6mm might be only choice. --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Denis Buggy" wrote: > > this may help hopefully ------ if you choose 6 mill plate for your hull then simply shape as best you can using very available .6 mm galvanize sheeting from your local hardware and simply screw to a wooden keel or pop rivet together and seal the gaps with a tube of silicone . you now have your hull to scale size and weight you can weigh the pieces of rough timber you use to give it a temporary *** Cut **** | 21465|21460|2009-10-31 22:50:06|Keith Green|Re: Modeling of BS36 - advice needed|You should be able to get .5mm. Just go to an industrial supplier and ask for shim stock on that size. .5mm is almost .020 inch and I know for sure I can get that off the shelf in the machine shop where I work. It will come in a 6" wide roll inside a cardboard tube. Should be able to get it in steel, brass or stainless. .020 is also the thickness of some of the steel banding we use to strap parts for shipping. Keith wild_explorer wrote: > This will not work. I want model to behave as real vessel. This means, it is need to use same materials and building technology AS CLOSE AS POSSIBLE to original used for real boat building. > > Thanks for advice on using 0.6mm steel sheet. If I will not be able to find 0.5mm sheet, 0.6mm might be only choice. > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Denis Buggy" wrote: > >> this may help hopefully ------ if you choose 6 mill plate for your hull then simply shape as best you can using very available .6 mm galvanize sheeting from your local hardware and simply screw to a wooden keel or pop rivet together and seal the gaps with a tube of silicone . you now have your hull to scale size and weight you can weigh the pieces of rough timber you use to give it a temporary >> > > *** Cut **** > > > > ------------------------------------ > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.comYahoo! Groups Links > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.423 / Virus Database: 270.14.42/2473 - Release Date: 10/31/09 21:14:00 > > | 21466|21460|2009-11-01 03:09:05|theboilerflue|Re: Modeling of BS36 - advice needed|There's a really cheesy Hollywood movie called Wind in which they test out hull shapes by plunking a model hull into the river and measure the drag on it with some tension wrenches, it looked like a low budget version of a wind tunnel for boats (a wave tunnel?) they also put the model in a kiddy pool and watched the waves it created from below. --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Keith Green wrote: > > You should be able to get .5mm. Just go to an industrial > supplier and ask for shim stock on that size. .5mm is almost .020 inch > and I know for sure I can get that off the shelf in the machine shop > where I work. It will come in a 6" wide roll inside a cardboard tube. > Should be able to get it in steel, brass or stainless. .020 is also the > thickness of some of the steel banding we use to strap parts for shipping. > > > > Keith > > wild_explorer wrote: > > This will not work. I want model to behave as real vessel. This means, it is need to use same materials and building technology AS CLOSE AS POSSIBLE to original used for real boat building. > > > > Thanks for advice on using 0.6mm steel sheet. If I will not be able to find 0.5mm sheet, 0.6mm might be only choice. > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Denis Buggy" wrote: > > > >> this may help hopefully ------ if you choose 6 mill plate for your hull then simply shape as best you can using very available .6 mm galvanize sheeting from your local hardware and simply screw to a wooden keel or pop rivet together and seal the gaps with a tube of silicone . you now have your hull to scale size and weight you can weigh the pieces of rough timber you use to give it a temporary > >> > > > > *** Cut **** > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@...! Groups Links > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > > Version: 8.5.423 / Virus Database: 270.14.42/2473 - Release Date: 10/31/09 21:14:00 > > > > > | 21467|21460|2009-11-01 13:36:44|wild_explorer|Re: Modeling of BS36 - advice needed|This is too Hi-Tech for me ;)) Back to modeling... As I understand, there is no CNC files for BS36 (and there is no needs for it for the BS36's hull's plates). In 1:1 scale it is easier to cut it "by hands". More likely, CNC plasma or laser cutter will cut 0.5mm steel with acceptable precision for 1:10 scale. What welders could say about it? The question is: "How to do it for home project?". Metal scissors - will not work - will bend metal on edges (especially in center line cut). I had to use modeling knife on paper model for acceptable result. "Drill and file" - too labor extensive with questionable results. I am not welder, but I will try to find somebody who can do it, IF "hand" plasma cutting is acceptable (for 1:10 scale - 0.5mm steel 3.6x0.8ft plate )to cut hull's plates. --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "theboilerflue" wrote: > > There's a really cheesy Hollywood movie called Wind in which they test out hull shapes by plunking a model hull into the river and measure the drag on it with some tension wrenches, it looked like a low budget version of a wind tunnel for boats (a wave tunnel?) they also put the model in a kiddy pool and watched the waves it created from below. | 21468|21460|2009-11-01 14:34:46|Denis Buggy|Re: Modeling of BS36 - advice needed|cutting .5 galvanize can be done by a air shears or a air nibbler or electric nibbler which is a fast moving mini punch usually 2mm punch -- you can shape and draw your paper template and place flat on your sheet and use a guillotine or angel grinder to do the long cutting with the nibbler finishing the curves . cut a length of narrow hose lengthways and place along the cut edge as it will slice you otherwise . you can rent or get a loan of a nibbler you will not need it for long-- a day max . denis ----- Original Message ----- From: wild_explorer To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, November 01, 2009 6:36 PM Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Modeling of BS36 - advice needed This is too Hi-Tech for me ;)) Back to modeling... As I understand, there is no CNC files for BS36 (and there is no needs for it for the BS36's hull's plates). In 1:1 scale it is easier to cut it "by hands". More likely, CNC plasma or laser cutter will cut 0.5mm steel with acceptable precision for 1:10 scale. What welders could say about it? The question is: "How to do it for home project?". Metal scissors - will not work - will bend metal on edges (especially in center line cut). I had to use modeling knife on paper model for acceptable result. "Drill and file" - too labor extensive with questionable results. I am not welder, but I will try to find somebody who can do it, IF "hand" plasma cutting is acceptable (for 1:10 scale - 0.5mm steel 3.6x0.8ft plate )to cut hull's plates. --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "theboilerflue" wrote: > > There's a really cheesy Hollywood movie called Wind in which they test out hull shapes by plunking a model hull into the river and measure the drag on it with some tension wrenches, it looked like a low budget version of a wind tunnel for boats (a wave tunnel?) they also put the model in a kiddy pool and watched the waves it created from below. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 21469|21460|2009-11-01 15:55:25|Aaron Williams|Re: Modeling of BS36 - advice needed|.5 mm = .001968498 inch Plasma cutting is not a very good option I have a C-N-C plasma cutting table and I cut down to .032 after that the warp-age start getting uncontrollable. Laser cutting would work just fine. Aaron --- On Sun, 11/1/09, Denis Buggy wrote: From: Denis Buggy Subject: Re: [origamiboats] Re: Modeling of BS36 - advice needed To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, November 1, 2009, 10:34 AM   cutting .5 galvanize can be done by a air shears or a air nibbler or electric nibbler which is a fast moving mini punch usually 2mm punch -- you can shape and draw your paper template and place flat on your sheet and use a guillotine or angel grinder to do the long cutting with the nibbler finishing the curves . cut a length of narrow hose lengthways and place along the cut edge as it will slice you otherwise . you can rent or get a loan of a nibbler you will not need it for long-- a day max . denis ----- Original Message ----- From: wild_explorer To: origamiboats@ yahoogroups. com Sent: Sunday, November 01, 2009 6:36 PM Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Modeling of BS36 - advice needed This is too Hi-Tech for me ;)) Back to modeling... As I understand, there is no CNC files for BS36 (and there is no needs for it for the BS36's hull's plates). In 1:1 scale it is easier to cut it "by hands". More likely, CNC plasma or laser cutter will cut 0.5mm steel with acceptable precision for 1:10 scale. What welders could say about it? The question is: "How to do it for home project?". Metal scissors - will not work - will bend metal on edges (especially in center line cut). I had to use modeling knife on paper model for acceptable result. "Drill and file" - too labor extensive with questionable results. I am not welder, but I will try to find somebody who can do it, IF "hand" plasma cutting is acceptable (for 1:10 scale - 0.5mm steel 3.6x0.8ft plate )to cut hull's plates. --- In origamiboats@ yahoogroups. com, "theboilerflue" wrote: > > There's a really cheesy Hollywood movie called Wind in which they test out hull shapes by plunking a model hull into the river and measure the drag on it with some tension wrenches, it looked like a low budget version of a wind tunnel for boats (a wave tunnel?) they also put the model in a kiddy pool and watched the waves it created from below. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 21470|21460|2009-11-01 16:49:45|Aaron Williams|Re: Modeling of BS36 - advice needed|.5 mm = .0196 I had one to many zero's --- On Sun, 11/1/09, Aaron Williams wrote: From: Aaron Williams Subject: Re: [origamiboats] Re: Modeling of BS36 - advice needed To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, November 1, 2009, 11:55 AM   .5 mm = .001968498 inch Plasma cutting is not a very good option I have a C-N-C plasma cutting table and I cut down to .032 after that the warp-age start getting uncontrollable. Laser cutting would work just fine. Aaron --- On Sun, 11/1/09, Denis Buggy wrote: From: Denis Buggy Subject: Re: [origamiboats] Re: Modeling of BS36 - advice needed To: origamiboats@ yahoogroups. com Date: Sunday, November 1, 2009, 10:34 AM   cutting .5 galvanize can be done by a air shears or a air nibbler or electric nibbler which is a fast moving mini punch usually 2mm punch -- you can shape and draw your paper template and place flat on your sheet and use a guillotine or angel grinder to do the long cutting with the nibbler finishing the curves . cut a length of narrow hose lengthways and place along the cut edge as it will slice you otherwise . you can rent or get a loan of a nibbler you will not need it for long-- a day max . denis ----- Original Message ----- From: wild_explorer To: origamiboats@ yahoogroups. com Sent: Sunday, November 01, 2009 6:36 PM Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Modeling of BS36 - advice needed This is too Hi-Tech for me ;)) Back to modeling... As I understand, there is no CNC files for BS36 (and there is no needs for it for the BS36's hull's plates). In 1:1 scale it is easier to cut it "by hands". More likely, CNC plasma or laser cutter will cut 0.5mm steel with acceptable precision for 1:10 scale. What welders could say about it? The question is: "How to do it for home project?". Metal scissors - will not work - will bend metal on edges (especially in center line cut). I had to use modeling knife on paper model for acceptable result. "Drill and file" - too labor extensive with questionable results. I am not welder, but I will try to find somebody who can do it, IF "hand" plasma cutting is acceptable (for 1:10 scale - 0.5mm steel 3.6x0.8ft plate )to cut hull's plates. --- In origamiboats@ yahoogroups. com, "theboilerflue" wrote: > > There's a really cheesy Hollywood movie called Wind in which they test out hull shapes by plunking a model hull into the river and measure the drag on it with some tension wrenches, it looked like a low budget version of a wind tunnel for boats (a wave tunnel?) they also put the model in a kiddy pool and watched the waves it created from below. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 21471|21460|2009-11-01 20:13:03|Stymied|Re: Modeling of BS36 - advice needed|"In article (the link you provided) was mentioned that vesseles in scale 1:25 are used for ship's behaivoir research. IT WILL BE VERY CLOSE to real vessel AS LONG AS YOU USE THE SAME (scaled) MATERIALS. Scale 1:10 is bigger and will be more accurate." I don't understand what "scaled materials" means. Per Skeene Beam, draft and length vary in proportion to the scale Sail area varies as the square of the scale Displacement varies as the cube of the scale Stability varies as the fourth power of the scale So in your case, with a 1:10 scale model, if I'm doing it right, your waterline would be .1, your sail are would be .01 and your displacement would be .001 of the real boat, if you expect it to behave in the water in a similar way. The rig of this testing model will be completely different than a 1:10 model that is built to _look_ like the real boat. If I am wrong somebody will correct me. =^) If you want to know how changing a Swain boat might affect it, you might just ask Swain. There do not seem to be any permutations somebody hasn't tried already. =^) If the metal you are using is so stiff it will not cut with shears, at that scale, I suggest you will find it incredibly difficult to work with and impossible to assemble with solder. But have a go, I could be wrong!| 21472|21460|2009-11-01 22:04:47|wild_explorer|Re: Modeling of BS36 - advice needed|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Stymied" wrote: > > I don't understand what "scaled materials" means. May be I used wrong word. "Scaled" - same material that is in original plans, but calculated to fit "model". For 1:10 scale model: Steel plate 5mm in original plans is equal 0.5mm for model, Lead ballast 4500Lb in plans is equal 4.5Lb in model, etc (according that article). > Stability varies as the fourth power of the scale This what I found confusing (did not get it yet). I need to do more research/thinking. > The rig of this testing model will be completely different than a 1:10 model that is built to _look_ like the real boat. If I am wrong somebody will correct me. =^) Are you sure about it? Why is that? Should be the same (just need to recalculate wind speed coefficient for the model - power coefficient???), but I might be wrong. > If you want to know how changing a Swain boat might affect it, you might just ask Swain. There do not seem to be any permutations somebody hasn't tried already. =^) The model could be useful for hull balancing (to keep the same center of gravity or better and check how moving engine, tanks, changing profile of the deck, placement of interior, will affect balance of the hull (vertical and horizontal). If model is used just for interior placement/modeling, it would be better and easier to use cardboard or even clear plastic sheet to make model's hull.| 21474|21460|2009-11-02 09:54:51|Stymied|Re: Modeling of BS36 - advice needed|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "wild_explorer" wrote: > For 1:10 scale model: > Steel plate 5mm in original plans is equal 0.5mm for model, Lead ballast 4500Lb in plans is equal 4.5Lb in model, etc (according that article). But neither one of those would actually scale that way. Tensile strength does not scale as the waterline either. The hull of your model would be proportionately much stronger than it should be. Icebreakers should have such a hull. =^) I am going to stop talking about this because I am not competent. You might get where you want to go faster if you visit boatdesign.net where they do these sorts of calculations in their sleep. This group here seems to be geared more toward the "see what somebody else did and then overbuild it by a factor of 50" set. I include myself. =^)| 21476|21460|2009-11-02 13:26:04|mauro gonzaga|Re: Modeling of BS36 - advice needed|I presume scaling a model is made to have the weight in scale just to see how it floats. Not for strength calculation!!!! For your info the displacement is scaledin cubic factor i.e. given  a 1:10 the scale and 10 the volume of the model the full size boat will displace 10x10x10= 1000. Learn calculations of volumes working on a 1:10 drawing is not so complicated, I mean you only need basic maths knowledge an a book of navakl architecture. Don't be scared, there are no high math. Mauro --- On Mon, 11/2/09, Stymied wrote: From: Stymied Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Modeling of BS36 - advice needed To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, November 2, 2009, 3:54 PM   --- In origamiboats@ yahoogroups. com, "wild_explorer" wrote: > For 1:10 scale model: > Steel plate 5mm in original plans is equal 0.5mm for model, Lead ballast 4500Lb in plans is equal 4.5Lb in model, etc (according that article). But neither one of those would actually scale that way. Tensile strength does not scale as the waterline either. The hull of your model would be proportionately much stronger than it should be. Icebreakers should have such a hull. =^) I am going to stop talking about this because I am not competent. You might get where you want to go faster if you visit boatdesign.net where they do these sorts of calculations in their sleep. This group here seems to be geared more toward the "see what somebody else did and then overbuild it by a factor of 50" set. I include myself. =^) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 21477|21477|2009-11-02 13:42:31|tinboat2010|Testing model boats|If you scale the boat down for testing, do you have to scale down the viscosity of the "water?" In other words, if the boat is one tenth the size, should the "water" be one tenth as thick? Tinboat| 21478|21477|2009-11-02 13:50:50|jfisher@wildblue.net|Re: Testing model boats|To do scale testing you have to match the Re to that of the real boat. Can be calculated pretty easily. John Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "tinboat2010" Date: Mon, 02 Nov 2009 18:41:13 To: Subject: [origamiboats] Testing model boats If you scale the boat down for testing, do you have to scale down the viscosity of the "water?" In other words, if the boat is one tenth the size, should the "water" be one tenth as thick? Tinboat [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]| 21479|21460|2009-11-02 15:56:13|Stymied|Re: Modeling of BS36 - advice needed|> I presume scaling a model is made to have the weight in scale just to see how it floats. Not for strength calculation!!!! Right, but is it not true that if the dimensions of the hull material is in scale, meaning just the thickness of the steel itself, at a scale of 1:10, then neither the strength nor the weight are going to be anywhere near similitude. That is what we are getting at.| 21480|21460|2009-11-02 20:13:18|Gord Schnell|Re: Modeling of BS36 - advice needed|Hi Guys. This thread is getting a bit long in the tooth, but the "shim stock" component caught my eye. When I had just finished the hull and decks on my 40' BS, I got the idea to cut shim stock directly from the paper plans and create a model of the boat...purpose being: to try various cabin, pilothouse and port shapes. It turned out very well with minimum effort....just cut it out from the plans, soldered it together and added mast and rigging. It looks pretty good.....good conversation piece.....makes discussions more meaningful. I have no idea if it would model the boats ocean-going characteristics....doubt it. Gord On 1-Nov-09, at 1:07 AM, theboilerflue wrote: > There's a really cheesy Hollywood movie called Wind in which they > test out hull shapes by plunking a model hull into the river and > measure the drag on it with some tension wrenches, it looked like a > low budget version of a wind tunnel for boats (a wave tunnel?) they > also put the model in a kiddy pool and watched the waves it created > from below. > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Keith Green wrote: > > > > You should be able to get .5mm. Just go to an industrial > > supplier and ask for shim stock on that size. .5mm is almost .020 > inch > > and I know for sure I can get that off the shelf in the machine shop > > where I work. It will come in a 6" wide roll inside a cardboard > tube. > > Should be able to get it in steel, brass or stainless. .020 is > also the > > thickness of some of the steel banding we use to strap parts for > shipping. > > > > > > > > Keith > > > > wild_explorer wrote: > > > This will not work. I want model to behave as real vessel. This > means, it is need to use same materials and building technology AS > CLOSE AS POSSIBLE to original used for real boat building. > > > > > > Thanks for advice on using 0.6mm steel sheet. If I will not be > able to find 0.5mm sheet, 0.6mm might be only choice. > > > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Denis Buggy" wrote: > > > > > >> this may help hopefully ------ if you choose 6 mill plate for > your hull then simply shape as best you can using very available .6 > mm galvanize sheeting from your local hardware and simply screw to a > wooden keel or pop rivet together and seal the gaps with a tube of > silicone . you now have your hull to scale size and weight you can > weigh the pieces of rough timber you use to give it a temporary > > >> > > > > > > *** Cut **** > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats- > unsubscribe@...! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > > > Version: 8.5.423 / Virus Database: 270.14.42/2473 - Release > Date: 10/31/09 21:14:00 > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 21481|21460|2009-11-02 20:39:55|theboilerflue|Re: Modeling of BS36 - advice needed|Ok willi I understand the appeal of what you are trying to do, to get everything down pat and calculated before the big build. However you must understand that the general focus of the design and building of these types of boats, is to be built with the most rudimentary of tools and skills! All this fancy preparedness is not really necessary the best things you could do are: just save more money for the build lets say a minimum of 30 grand figure out a way of living cheap and find a place where you can build it that won't cost you an arm and a leg over the year + that it'll take you to build it try to not have to work a 9-5 job while you build it, reversing more time to actual building. The way these things go together there is no way that two are identical, how could they be they're pulled together by come-a-longs and welded up it would be pretty easy to be an inch off the plans, not that that would be a bad thing but that inch would throw off your perfectly pre-designed interior or what ever carefully crafted hydrodynamic calculations you've taken from a model. I made a paper model once and sort of fit in an interior to it with the intention of taking some rough measurements off it for my interior. I worked out some measurements then i realised that the proportions of my boat to that one in the files section are off by half a foot in some places and dead on in others, I realised that this wouldn't give me the precision i was looking for so i tossed it. It's likely that the cardboard/hot glue was culprit here and not the design but what's the point of taking the care to build two perfect identical boats. It sounds like the work you have in mind would be as much if not more math and figuring as it would take to build the hull. So why not just start the build? or if you aren't setup for it start hoarding materials, building parts and pieces of the boat like Brent has suggested you can build pretty close to every piece of trim before building the hull just leave a couple of inches here and there for adjustments when fitting it to the hull. Anyway those are my suggestions take them or leave them, but keep in mind your goals it's easy to lose track of what you want to accomplish and find yourself two months and thousands of dollars later in the same spot you began in. --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "wild_explorer" wrote: > > > > > > > This is too Hi-Tech for me ;)) > > Back to modeling... > > As I understand, there is no CNC files for BS36 (and there is no needs for it for the BS36's hull's plates). In 1:1 scale it is easier to cut it "by hands". > > More likely, CNC plasma or laser cutter will cut 0.5mm steel with acceptable precision for 1:10 scale. What welders could say about it? > > The question is: "How to do it for home project?". Metal scissors - will not work - will bend metal on edges (especially in center line cut). I had to use modeling knife on paper model for acceptable result. "Drill and file" - too labor extensive with questionable results. I am not welder, but I will try to find somebody who can do it, IF "hand" plasma cutting is acceptable (for 1:10 scale - 0.5mm steel 3.6x0.8ft plate )to cut hull's plates. > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "theboilerflue" wrote: > > > > There's a really cheesy Hollywood movie called Wind in which they test out hull shapes by plunking a model hull into the river and measure the drag on it with some tension wrenches, it looked like a low budget version of a wind tunnel for boats (a wave tunnel?) they also put the model in a kiddy pool and watched the waves it created from below. > | 21482|21460|2009-11-02 21:02:43|Shane Duncan|Re: Modeling of BS36 - advice needed|To get the hang of the construction method And to check that my CAD conversions were ok Before I made my 31 BS I made 2 x 1/10 scale models out of 1mm balsa wood using the CAD files They came out surprisingly well and were extremely useful for helping me with the construction sequence I.e. before putting the keel and cabin top on i would do everything in miniature first   i then made 2 scale models of myself and my wife the engine toilet etc to try out different combinations of the of the interior fit out   it looked pretty cool on top of the fridge   cheers  shane __________________________________________________________________________________ Get more done like never before with Yahoo!7 Mail. Learn more: http://au.overview.mail.yahoo.com/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]| 21483|21460|2009-11-02 23:03:56|wild_explorer|Re: Modeling of BS36 - advice needed|Thank you ALL for good ideas!!! I do appreciate it. I like an idea to make cardboard model directly from plan's drawings (if it is reasonable size) to play with some "look" and interior customization. It would be easy to calculate what the scale is. It looks, like we are making circles on some subjects. I do not really understand why... My main reason trying to make model from steel is: I want to get feeling how to work with steel, plus get an idea how might be better to fold it. When I was working with a cardboard, it was need to lift the ends of the "half-hull" plate to fold it easier. I just want to see what the difference would be when working with steel. IF I CAN DO IT as close as possible to real vessel, WHY NOT? Hopefully, this model will give me feeling of REAL boat's CONSTRUCTION for fraction of cost and could be used by children later as a "toy" model. It should be VERY helpful for hull balancing (to check how placement of the engine, tanks, furniture, deck) will affect hull. Just need to remember - with scale 1:10 of the model SIZE/DIMENSIONS of the engine (for example) would be 1:10, BUT WEIGHT 1:1000. Means: If real engine's weight is 400 Lb, you need to use 0.4 Lb as model's engine weight AND scale size of the engine 1:10. Same proportion (1:1000) for the weight of the ballast, tanks, etc. So, if follow this, you can do pretty accurate balancing of the hull. I will do STEEL model ONLY IF I can find how to cut 0.5 steel accurately and without bending ages. More likely laser cutter. IF NOT, i will stick with cardboard model.| 21484|21460|2009-11-02 23:23:55|wild_explorer|Re: Modeling of BS36 - advice needed|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "theboilerflue" wrote: > > > just save more money for the build lets say a minimum of 30 grand > figure out a way of living cheap and find a place where you can build it that won't cost you an arm and a leg over the year + that it'll take you to build it I am not the welder, so I will use somebody IF I START this project. I would build it to "power-away stage", put it on water, and finish it later. So, I want to know main steps of the project to be able to act as project manager at least ;)). Making this model could give me some experience. > but keep in mind your goals it's easy to lose track of what you want to accomplish and find yourself two months and thousands of dollars later in the same spot you began in. There is NO WAY I will even start building model IF it will cost more than 200-300 USD (plan's cost and my time are not included).| 21486|21460|2009-11-03 07:31:18|smithconsulting41|Re: Modeling of BS36 - advice needed|To the cutting situation for a moment. I am hard pressed to believe that a pair of industrial sissors or a pair of good (I mean new and GOOD) tin snips would not cut .5mm steel. I have a buddy in the heating and airconditioning business and he has snips that are right hand, left hand, straight cut, radius cut, low profile, short nose, long nose, on and on. He can cut anything. When he sees my snips he just laughs and shakes his head no.. Russell --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "wild_explorer" wrote: > > > > Thank you ALL for good ideas!!! I do appreciate it. > > I like an idea to make cardboard model directly from plan's drawings (if it is reasonable size) to play with some "look" and interior customization. It would be easy to calculate what the scale is. > > It looks, like we are making circles on some subjects. I do not really understand why... > > My main reason trying to make model from steel is: I want to get feeling how to work with steel, plus get an idea how might be better to fold it. > > When I was working with a cardboard, it was need to lift the ends of the "half-hull" plate to fold it easier. I just want to see what the difference would be when working with steel. > > IF I CAN DO IT as close as possible to real vessel, WHY NOT? Hopefully, this model will give me feeling of REAL boat's CONSTRUCTION for fraction of cost and could be used by children later as a "toy" model. > > It should be VERY helpful for hull balancing (to check how placement of the engine, tanks, furniture, deck) will affect hull. Just need to remember - with scale 1:10 of the model SIZE/DIMENSIONS of the engine (for example) would be 1:10, BUT WEIGHT 1:1000. Means: If real engine's weight is 400 Lb, you need to use 0.4 Lb as model's engine weight AND scale size of the engine 1:10. Same proportion (1:1000) for the weight of the ballast, tanks, etc. So, if follow this, you can do pretty accurate balancing of the hull. > > I will do STEEL model ONLY IF I can find how to cut 0.5 steel accurately and without bending ages. More likely laser cutter. IF NOT, i will stick with cardboard model. > | 21487|21460|2009-11-03 08:12:01|gcode fi (hanermo)|Re: Modeling of BS36 - advice needed|There are lots of ways to work with thin steel, easily, and cheaply. All suggestions so far have merit, and can easily work. As a practice re: building a BS boat, the model may not be very useful, but as a practice re: building in metal, it is likely to be very, very good. If you can make and balance the model, you can definitely build the hull as well. IF you want best results, and can spare a bit of money, you can have the pieces laser cut. It has several advantages ... you will learn to get work from to plans, plan before doing, and get excellent, excellent results. It has several disadvantages... You will probably bend, distort or miscalculate some pieces. Bending radii will not be what you expect. The pieces will not fit exactly, because you will not have taken curvatures properly into account. You need to make a new piece if you want an exact fit. It will be hard to impossible to make a smooth model - thin metal sheet is very hard to work with, compared to a BS sheets in 4-5 mm. Making a full size boat is easier ! It might cost about 100 to 200 US for laser cutting if in the us and take a few minutes. If you make trial pieces in equivalently thick cardboard, and copy the pattern faithfully, you should get to better than 0.5 mm accuracy. Just doing it by computer, you will likely get 1-2 up to 3 mm mishaps. Metal sheet curvature is (quite) different for 5 mm thick steel (the boat) and 0.5 mm thin sheet. There is no easy, exact way to calculate this. 1/3 of thickness of sheet at bend centerline is supposed to be a good rule of thumb. When you bend metal, part of it compresses, part of it stretches. Sheet metal brakes and bending machines need to take this into account when making say metal boxes (or a boat). To really do it (industrial level) well, you need to use a cad system like Rhinoceros and a sheet unrolling software meant for this. And then make some test pieces. This would get your errors to under 0.1 - 0.3 mm. This is NOT needed to make a BS boat (or typical metal boats), as the sheets are bent into place by bending till it fits. If you want to finish it neatly, watertight and in metal, silver solder ie brazing is easy fast and cheap, and can leave a perfect surface. A torch or 2, flux and silver solder can fix the pieces to each other very strongly, and you can sand (40 grit RO sander) or smooth (flapper wheel and small angle grinder) the edges for a perfect feathered finish. If you want, you can use thin inside bits like backing strips say 2 cm wide to solder the sheets to each other. For a less ambitious option, epoxy will work as well. Pop rivets wont look good, but will work just as well. I build cnc machines and have some metalworking experience ;) I (am in process of) will be building machines to cut and bend the sheets by computer, for full size boats. My cnc milling machine at this time will fit 2.4 m x 1.4 m sheets (upto 40 cm in height). I would make a model with electric nibbler or shears. Buy heavy, professional grade shears or snips, and it will be easy. Try it with cheasy ones, and it may be impossible. You dont need the best most expensive brand, you just need ones meant for professional use. Good luck ! Pictures please ! smithconsulting41 wrote: > > > To the cutting situation for a moment. I am hard pressed to believe > that a pair of industrial sissors or a pair of good (I mean new and > GOOD) tin snips would not cut .5mm steel. I have a buddy in the > heating and airconditioning business and he has snips that are right > hand, left hand, straight cut, radius cut, low profile, short nose, > long nose, on and on. He can cut anything. When he sees my snips he > just laughs and shakes his head no.. > > Russell > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > , "wild_explorer" > wrote: > > > > > > > > Thank you ALL for good ideas!!! I do appreciate it. > > > > I like an idea to make cardboard model directly from plan's drawings > (if it is reasonable size) to play with some "look" and interior > customization. It would be easy to calculate what the scale is. > > > > It looks, like we are making circles on some subjects. I do not > really understand why... > > > > My main reason trying to make model from steel is: I want to get > feeling how to work with steel, plus get an idea how might be better > to fold it. > > > > When I was working with a cardboard, it was need to lift the ends of > the "half-hull" plate to fold it easier. I just want to see what the > difference would be when working with steel. > > > > IF I CAN DO IT as close as possible to real vessel, WHY NOT? > Hopefully, this model will give me feeling of REAL boat's CONSTRUCTION > for fraction of cost and could be used by children later as a "toy" model. > > > > It should be VERY helpful for hull balancing (to check how placement > of the engine, tanks, furniture, deck) will affect hull. Just need to > remember - with scale 1:10 of the model SIZE/DIMENSIONS of the engine > (for example) would be 1:10, BUT WEIGHT 1:1000. Means: If real > engine's weight is 400 Lb, you need to use 0.4 Lb as model's engine > weight AND scale size of the engine 1:10. Same proportion (1:1000) for > the weight of the ballast, tanks, etc. So, if follow this, you can do > pretty accurate balancing of the hull. > > > > I will do STEEL model ONLY IF I can find how to cut 0.5 steel > accurately and without bending ages. More likely laser cutter. IF NOT, > i will stick with cardboard model. > | 21488|21460|2009-11-03 21:07:19|Gary H. Lucas|Re: Modeling of BS36 - advice needed|Wild, Something for you to think about. I modeled a BS style hull in Rhino then printed out the patterns and folded them up in paper. In my Rhino model there is a crease running from the bow to the corner of the cut that makes the chine. That crease also shows up in the paper model. My dimensions are very close to the plans I purchased, and I've seen a BS 36 in person and there is no crease at the bow. I attribute this to two things. The first is that steel is much stiffer and the crease is a reverse bend which is not likely to happen with steel. The second , and maybe bigger reason is that Brent welds in angle iron stiffeners to the sheet, and those probably push outwards enough to keep the crease from forming. I could find no way to keep this crease from happening in a computer model where the surfaces are completely developable (no compound curves). I believe that when the hull sheets are pulled to together they actually get some compound curvature, and that is difficult to calculate or model accurately. Just some thoughts, Gary H. Lucas ----- Original Message ----- From: "wild_explorer" To: Sent: Monday, November 02, 2009 11:03 PM Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Modeling of BS36 - advice needed Thank you ALL for good ideas!!! I do appreciate it. I like an idea to make cardboard model directly from plan's drawings (if it is reasonable size) to play with some "look" and interior customization. It would be easy to calculate what the scale is. It looks, like we are making circles on some subjects. I do not really understand why... My main reason trying to make model from steel is: I want to get feeling how to work with steel, plus get an idea how might be better to fold it. When I was working with a cardboard, it was need to lift the ends of the "half-hull" plate to fold it easier. I just want to see what the difference would be when working with steel. IF I CAN DO IT as close as possible to real vessel, WHY NOT? Hopefully, this model will give me feeling of REAL boat's CONSTRUCTION for fraction of cost and could be used by children later as a "toy" model. It should be VERY helpful for hull balancing (to check how placement of the engine, tanks, furniture, deck) will affect hull. Just need to remember - with scale 1:10 of the model SIZE/DIMENSIONS of the engine (for example) would be 1:10, BUT WEIGHT 1:1000. Means: If real engine's weight is 400 Lb, you need to use 0.4 Lb as model's engine weight AND scale size of the engine 1:10. Same proportion (1:1000) for the weight of the ballast, tanks, etc. So, if follow this, you can do pretty accurate balancing of the hull. I will do STEEL model ONLY IF I can find how to cut 0.5 steel accurately and without bending ages. More likely laser cutter. IF NOT, i will stick with cardboard model. | 21489|21460|2009-11-03 23:10:33|wild_explorer|Re: Modeling of BS36 - advice needed|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Gary H. Lucas" wrote: > That crease also shows up in the paper model. My dimensions are > very close to the plans I purchased, and I've seen a BS 36 in person and > there is no crease at the bow. I attribute this to two things. The first > is that steel is much stiffer and the crease is a reverse bend which is not > likely to happen with steel. That why I want to make model in steel and as close as possible to original plans. Steel is more ductile (stretchable) than paper. For 1:10 model it is need to use 2 sheets 9.6x43.2". I could find cheap 0.02" 6x100" shim stock ~ 11USD (but it does not have enough width), 12x120" (better choice) is more expensive ~ 40USD. http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?PARTPG=INSRAR2&PMAKA=406-0250&PMPXNO=2613639 This is type 1010 mild steel, low carbon - RB80 minimum. I hope it is not hardened steel...| 21491|21460|2009-11-04 03:41:56|sae140|Re: Modeling of BS36 - advice needed|> That why I want to make model in steel and as close as possible to original plans. Steel is more ductile (stretchable) than paper. > > For 1:10 model it is need to use 2 sheets 9.6x43.2". I could find cheap 0.02" 6x100" shim stock ~ 11USD (but it does not have enough width), 12x120" (better choice) is more expensive ~ 40USD. > > http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?PARTPG=INSRAR2&PMAKA=406-0250&PMPXNO=2613639 > > This is type 1010 mild steel, low carbon - RB80 minimum. I hope it is not hardened steel... > I've had some good results in the past by making 'half-models' in plaster, then taking off an 'orange-peel' using thick paper strips, then transferring the 'peel' onto thick card and building from there. If I was to repeat this to make a substantial working model, then I'd be inclined to use thin aluminium sheet - typically the stuff they sheath caravans with (c. 0.5-0.6mm ?). It can be cut reasonably easily with a decent pair of scissors, and I'd 'weld' the seams on the inside with 5 minute epoxy. My guess is that this would result in a stiff hull, without the hassle of working with steel. If the hull is to be used for dynamic testing, I'd then calculate the appropriate weight for the keel ballast, and fill the keels with lead shot or whatever's available, then seal 'em up. After attaching the keels, I'd then fill the hull with a mix of sand, perlite, plaster - or whatever mix is needed to create just enough weight to bring the hull down exactly onto it's lines. Anyway - that's what I'd do - but you no doubt have your own ideas of how best to proceed. I only mention the above in case it gives food for thought. 'best, Colin.| 21493|21164|2009-11-05 11:11:35|jpronk1|Re: Winch gear|Hey Brent what are you using as a bushing between the centre of the drum and the axle and doe the bushing go the hole length of the drum? James --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "brentswain38" wrote: > > I use 2 inch sch 40 for the centre of the drum and 1 inch sch 40 pipe for the axle. > Brent > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "jpronk1" wrote: > > > > Hey Brent > > what are you using for the center of your drum and for the axle though the drum? > > James > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "brentswain38" wrote: > > > > > > Excellent idea. Wish I'd done that. Then I wouldn't have squashed my fingers trying to back her off under load. It also lets you put the handle on the other side when you injure a shoulder. > > > Brent > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "jpronk1" wrote: > > > > > > > > I was also thinking about cutting a square toothed gear so I could let out anchor rode as well as pulling in the anchor rode. > > > > Would this be a good idea? > > > > James. > > > > > > > > > > | 21494|21164|2009-11-05 11:40:24|jpronk1|Re: Winch gear|Would the bushing material need to be 5/16" thick? James --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "jpronk1" wrote: > > I was also thinking about cutting a square toothed gear so I could let out anchor rode as well as pulling in the anchor rode. > Would this be a good idea? > James. > | 21495|21164|2009-11-05 11:43:07|jpronk1|Re: Winch gear|Wow! I need to start using spell check or read my messages more closely before posting! James --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "jpronk1" wrote: > > Hey Brent > what are you using as a bushing between the centre of the drum and the axle and doe the bushing go the hole length of the drum? > James > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "brentswain38" wrote: > > > > I use 2 inch sch 40 for the centre of the drum and 1 inch sch 40 pipe for the axle. > > Brent > > > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "jpronk1" wrote: > > > > > > Hey Brent > > > what are you using for the center of your drum and for the axle though the drum? > > > James > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "brentswain38" wrote: > > > > > > > > Excellent idea. Wish I'd done that. Then I wouldn't have squashed my fingers trying to back her off under load. It also lets you put the handle on the other side when you injure a shoulder. > > > > Brent > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "jpronk1" wrote: > > > > > > > > > > I was also thinking about cutting a square toothed gear so I could let out anchor rode as well as pulling in the anchor rode. > > > > > Would this be a good idea? > > > > > James. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > | 21497|21164|2009-11-06 18:35:43|brentswain38|Re: Winch gear|Yes , a square tooth gear is a much better option, as it lets you let out rode while under load, by simply flipping the pawls up with a pry bar.I've been doing them all that way lately It also lets you switch the handle and pawls to the other side if you screw up a shoulder. --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "jpronk1" wrote: > > I was also thinking about cutting a square toothed gear so I could let out anchor rode as well as pulling in the anchor rode. > Would this be a good idea? > James. > | 21498|21164|2009-11-06 18:36:10|brentswain38|Re: Winch gear|I have used plastic hose barb material, but mine has been runing stainless on stainless for 25 years with no problem, cruising 11 months a year, all on anchor. --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "jpronk1" wrote: > > Hey Brent > what are you using as a bushing between the centre of the drum and the axle and doe the bushing go the hole length of the drum? > James > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "brentswain38" wrote: > > > > I use 2 inch sch 40 for the centre of the drum and 1 inch sch 40 pipe for the axle. > > Brent > > > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "jpronk1" wrote: > > > > > > Hey Brent > > > what are you using for the center of your drum and for the axle though the drum? > > > James > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "brentswain38" wrote: > > > > > > > > Excellent idea. Wish I'd done that. Then I wouldn't have squashed my fingers trying to back her off under load. It also lets you put the handle on the other side when you injure a shoulder. > > > > Brent > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "jpronk1" wrote: > > > > > > > > > > I was also thinking about cutting a square toothed gear so I could let out anchor rode as well as pulling in the anchor rode. > > > > > Would this be a good idea? > > > > > James. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > | 21499|21460|2009-11-06 18:48:33|brentswain38|Re: Modeling of BS36 - advice needed|The model should be the cube root of the scale , as it has width, times length, times depth, three dimensions. I have used a single layer of fibreglas matt wet out on a smooth surface( piece of aborite) then cut out, seams taped outside and glassed inside. This gives you a tough model you can bounce off the wall, and check out your interior options to scale. Balance it on a pencil when it is ballasted to float on her lines and you get the longitudinal centre of gravity. It also lets you make aesthetic decisions on cabin, wheelhouse etc, in 3 D. --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "wild_explorer" wrote: > > I am thinking about making BS36's 1:10 model. > > Question: If I use 0.5mm (1:10) steel as a hull plate (instead of 5mm as in 1:1 project) would be the weight equal 1:1000? Means: > > Hull weight 17 Lb (instead of 17,000 Lb) > Twin_keels_steel=1.2 Lb(0.6+0.6) + Lead_ballast=4.5 Lb(2.25+2.25) > > Is it correct? > > Is there others things I need to take in consideration? The goal is to make the model as close as possible to real project, and test it on water. > > Be easy on me, I never did any "real" modeling, just paper ;). > | 21500|21477|2009-11-06 18:55:51|brentswain38|Re: Testing model boats|Testing gives you a rough idea of performance, and what is or is not an improvement. I've heard of people gluing sandpaper on models to get the boundry layer, which is missing on models. --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "tinboat2010" wrote: > > If you scale the boat down for testing, do you have to scale down the viscosity of the "water?" In other words, if the boat is one tenth the size, should the "water" be one tenth as thick? > > Tinboat > | 21501|16351|2009-11-06 19:00:54|brentswain38|Reflectors|When one is trying to return to a dark anchorage on a rainy night, a small reflector cemented into a rock near the entrance is a godsend , by giving one a definite reference point. They can be lined up to give one leading marks into a safe channel, or mark both sides of the chanel.I've found they make doubtful entrances at night extremely easy to enter, with confidence. Scrapyards often have old traffic signs which are coated with reflector material, which will last decades. You can wash the writing of with laquer thinner , without affecting the reflector material. The aluminium ones can easily be cut up with a jigsaw or a table saw. Galv bolts on them, above the spray line, last for decades, stainless carriage bolts last a lifetime. No need to wait for Big Brother to put out aids to navigation( while filling his pockets at our expense on his new found excuse) We can do it for ourselves and make him less relevant. . Put a few on your boat and anyone entering your anchorage at night , using aspotlight will see your boat light up like an Xmas tree.| 21502|21433|2009-11-06 22:11:32|peter_d_wiley|Re: galvinised steel plate|I discussed this process with Tom Colvin who used to do it to his hulls. He stopped with the advent of better paints a number of years ago. From what he said the process was fussy, somewhat dangerous, used a lot of acetylene and oxygen as the bottles had to be manifolded together to keep the gas flow up - and you had to do a class 3 (white metal) grit blast first to prepare the surface. After the zinc or aluminium was applied, you still had to paint the hull. He never did the inside, only the outside. Outside of industrial applications or other special purposes I think this is technology best left alone. FWIW I have a Metco gun and it lives in the bottom drawer of my welding supply cabinet. On using hot dipped plate, I think that the sheet sizes and the need to deal with the HAZ, plus needing BA, makes it problematic for an entire hull. For high wear areas I'd use it if I couldn't use s/steel for some reason (like price - 42NB s/steel pie is 5X the cost of galv where I live). PDW --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Stymied" wrote: > > You can do your welding, sandblast the seams then flame spray with a Metco gun or similar. This literally coats the metal with an aerosol of molten zinc, galvanizing it. I have a Metco gun I might rent if you want to do this but it's really taking the long way around. In any case there is no reason to start with galvanized metal because the welding will burn it off. > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Bob Wills wrote: > > > > Two week ago I sent a question to all the blogers about the use of galvanizes steel plate. I did not see any one reply. I have a friend that has a 30 foot boat that is twenty years old and the only problems he had had is in the Kiel were water stays all the time. the fix was to weld on a patch. The inside of the boat is not foamed so all is available to see and it looks as new. > > Manufactures make water tanks that last for years so why not small boats? > >   > > Is this a odd Idea or has any one tired It? > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > | 21503|21477|2009-11-07 02:11:34|mauro gonzaga|Re: Testing model boats|Total resistance to the advancement of the boat or model is of two types: friction and wave. Wave is proportional following the rule V=1.34 x SQRL and friction shall be deducted from the total resistance of the model to have the wave resistance. Friction resistance may be calculated for the actual hull. Mauro --- On Sat, 11/7/09, brentswain38 wrote: From: brentswain38 Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Testing model boats To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, November 7, 2009, 12:50 AM   Testing gives you a rough idea of performance, and what is or is not an improvement. I've heard of people gluing sandpaper on models to get the boundry layer, which is missing on models. --- In origamiboats@ yahoogroups. com, "tinboat2010" wrote: > > If you scale the boat down for testing, do you have to scale down the viscosity of the "water?" In other words, if the boat is one tenth the size, should the "water" be one tenth as thick? > > Tinboat > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 21504|21504|2009-11-07 06:42:22|BrianC|Current metal costs.|Checked on current metal costs for the 31 footer from Russel metals in Cambell River. Zinc primed plate for the sides and deck and bar stock. 5500 Can for everything execpt the stainless ,I already have all my stainless components built. Brian| 21505|16351|2009-11-07 12:55:19|steve|Re: Reflectors|I can attest that the 'Brent Swain Hydrographic and Navigational Aids Service' is a good one. His leading marks on the entry to Home Bay Lagoon on Jedediah Island and on the entry to Squitty Bay on Lasqueti are particularly useful. Probably very few people use them , but it only takes one time in night,rain/snow, and a lee shore to make the installation effort worthwhile. I also have some red/silver reflector tape to put in a band at my masthead , as an adjunct to the deck level reflectors. Steve --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "brentswain38" wrote: > > When one is trying to return to a dark anchorage on a rainy night, a small reflector cemented into a rock near the entrance is a godsend , by giving one a definite reference point. They can be lined up to give one leading marks into a safe channel, or mark both sides of the chanel.I've found they make doubtful entrances at night extremely easy to enter, with confidence. > Scrapyards often have old traffic signs which are coated with reflector material, which will last decades. You can wash the writing of with laquer thinner , without affecting the reflector material. The aluminium ones can easily be cut up with a jigsaw or a table saw. > Galv bolts on them, above the spray line, last for decades, stainless carriage bolts last a lifetime. > No need to wait for Big Brother to put out aids to navigation( while filling his pockets at our expense on his new found excuse) We can do it for ourselves and make him less relevant. . > Put a few on your boat and anyone entering your anchorage at night , using aspotlight will see your boat light up like an Xmas tree. > | 21506|16351|2009-11-07 23:40:22|arctichusky44|Re: Reflectors|The marine company I worked for for many years ago in Alaska made a point of enhancing the nav markers in many channels for the benefit of their crews. The owners sent out a small crew boat type vessel armed with quick setting cement , metal pipe and reflective markers and set up many extra leading marks, chanel indicators and reference points for the freight boats. Apparently, this was common practice on the coast for the last century or so, where the government hydrographic service did not always get to the wayward areas of commerce. I know that in blinding snow where the radar often didn't cut it, those marks were a blessing. It is not a new revelation, just think of the old sounding boards that were used to bounce the whistle signals off, long before radar was around. These were installed on obvious headlands and course changes, basically a sheet of plywood on a rock some where. Sound the whisle, count the seconds , no brainer. cheers, frank --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "steve" wrote: > > I can attest that the 'Brent Swain Hydrographic and Navigational Aids Service' is a good one. His leading marks on the entry to Home Bay Lagoon on Jedediah Island and on the entry to Squitty Bay on Lasqueti are particularly useful. Probably very few people use them , but it only takes one time in night,rain/snow, and a lee shore to make the installation effort worthwhile. > > I also have some red/silver reflector tape to put in a band at my masthead , as an adjunct to the deck level reflectors. > > Steve > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "brentswain38" wrote: > > > > When one is trying to return to a dark anchorage on a rainy night, a small reflector cemented into a rock near the entrance is a godsend , by giving one a definite reference point. They can be lined up to give one leading marks into a safe channel, or mark both sides of the chanel.I've found they make doubtful entrances at night extremely easy to enter, with confidence. > > Scrapyards often have old traffic signs which are coated with reflector material, which will last decades. You can wash the writing of with laquer thinner , without affecting the reflector material. The aluminium ones can easily be cut up with a jigsaw or a table saw. > > Galv bolts on them, above the spray line, last for decades, stainless carriage bolts last a lifetime. > > No need to wait for Big Brother to put out aids to navigation( while filling his pockets at our expense on his new found excuse) We can do it for ourselves and make him less relevant. . > > Put a few on your boat and anyone entering your anchorage at night , using aspotlight will see your boat light up like an Xmas tree. > > > | 21507|21507|2009-11-08 15:20:23|GP|Yacht weave...|I have some of those black mold dots growing on the underside of my v birth cushions where I bunk down...pretty much in the location of my upper body. Anyone have any luck with the weave material available at chandleries that you place under cushions...apparently allows for ventilation which prevents mold.... Also... that kind of mold is very tough to get rid of I found. ...thanks Gary| 21508|21507|2009-11-08 20:10:18|markh|Re: Yacht weave...|Gary: That would be mildew. There are some cleaners that will remove the spots and some new cleaners that really do an excellent job. They all seem to contain bleach. In wooden boat i remember reading about a man that wiped down his interior (boat) with white vinegar and water. He thought this solution 1 vinegar 3 paarts water ???? seemed to really inhibit and protect the surface. If you are at a dock and power an article in Currents of the Bluewater Cruising assoc. stated that for comfortable liveaboard during the winter (Vancouver, BC, Canada) the couple used a de-humidifier. They emptied 22 litres-- 5 us gallons a week I think but it may have been a much shorter time. The units seem to be expensive but maybe worth it?? The body gives off about 1 litre a night of water (and apparently in my case 45 litres of methane). This I save by...oh never mind. They also put a 40 watt light bulb under their berth. They said the two things dehumidifier and light bulb made all the difference. The other thing you might do is paint the ply with something like Behr kitchen and Batroom paint which has a mildew gaurantee of 5 years. Mine lasted 3 years so save your receipt. But that was my own fault. Anyway back to the methane==get a 45 gallon drum and 10 foot of hose and stick the hose up your..... All the best, MarkH ----- Original Message ----- From: GP To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, November 08, 2009 12:19 PM Subject: [origamiboats] Yacht weave... I have some of those black mold dots growing on the underside of my v birth cushions where I bunk down...pretty much in the location of my upper body. Anyone have any luck with the weave material available at chandleries that you place under cushions...apparently allows for ventilation which prevents mold.... Also... that kind of mold is very tough to get rid of I found. ...thanks Gary [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 21510|21510|2009-11-09 10:01:29|SHANE ROTHWELL|Yacht Weave|Re Vinegar: in the early 80's they were having a major problem in a large american hosptial with post-op infections, flesh eating disease or something gruesom like that. after using lots of their "standard" sergical disinfectants with nil results, they tried what the Romans did over 2,000 years ago, a 50:50 solution of vinegar & water. It worked. It's all we use around the house Re Methane: Mark, I have the same problem to the point I levitate at times & have to be careful with heat sources, open flames & the like. Smoking after sex proved disasterous, never saw the girl again she was so terrified! But it Sounds like you are onto something there & there has to be a market! More details Please. . Re: Yacht weave... Posted by: "markh" mhamill1@... sunbearone Sun Nov 8, 2009 5:10 pm (PST) Gary: That would be mildew. There are some cleaners that will remove the spots and some new cleaners that really do an excellent job. They all seem to contain bleach. In wooden boat i remember reading about a man that wiped down his interior (boat) with white vinegar and water. He thought this solution 1 vinegar 3 paarts water ???? seemed to really inhibit and protect the surface. If you are at a dock and power an article in Currents of the Bluewater Cruising assoc. stated that for comfortable liveaboard during the winter (Vancouver, BC, Canada) the couple used a de-humidifier. They emptied 22 litres-- 5 us gallons a week I think but it may have been a much shorter time. The units seem to be expensive but maybe worth it?? The body gives off about 1 litre a night of water (and apparently in my case 45 litres of methane). This I save by...oh never mind. They also put a 40 watt light bulb under their berth. They said the two things dehumidifier and light bulb made all the difference. The other thing you might do is paint the ply with something like Behr kitchen and Batroom paint which has a mildew gaurantee of 5 years. Mine lasted 3 years so save your receipt. But that was my own fault. Anyway back to the methane==get a 45 gallon drum and 10 foot of hose and stick the hose up your..... All the best, MarkH ----- Original Message ----- From: GP To: origamiboats@ yahoogroups. com Sent: Sunday, November 08, 2009 12:19 PM Subject: [origamiboats] Yacht weave... I have some of those black mold dots growing on the underside of my v birth cushions where I bunk down...pretty much in the location of my upper body. Anyone have any luck with the weave material available at chandleries that you place under cushions...apparent ly allows for ventilation which prevents mold.... Also... that kind of mold is very tough to get rid of I found. ...thanks Gary [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] __________________________________________________________________ Looking for the perfect gift? Give the gift of Flickr! http://www.flickr.com/gift/ | 21511|21511|2009-11-09 13:54:44|GP|Good, bad and the ugly....|This post is related to your enjoyment of a fine cruising boat but not about building one. The Good of course is the still abundantly pristing BC wilderness coast north of Desolation Sound. The Bad and the Ugly... usual suspect...Big Money. Fish farms are spreading like a virus but are being resisted by outfitters, fishermen, first nations etc... So far 10,000 signatures and a court victory that is leading to a federal public enquiry on collapse of sockeye salmon runs many attritube to fish farm generated sea lice infections of salmon fry passing the farming pens... The good guys have the momentum right now and are asking for help in the way of a simple petition. Here is a quote from SalmonCoast.org folk leading this effort... "So I have embedded a flyer on my blog that you can download and post. We need to see the Fisheries Act applied ASAP. I will continue to lay charges under the Fisheries Act with your financial help, but this is a stop gap effort. The government should be doing this not us! We need 100,000 signatures on our letter at http://www.adopt-a-fry.org/ Next week is a Global Week of Action on salmon farms http://www.facebook.com/home.php?#/event.php?eid=167112434482&ref=ts Please view the film trailer http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eggrGn0V0fg" ...thanks origami forum guys..... Gary| 21512|21510|2009-11-09 19:16:14|Gary H. Lucas|Re: Yacht Weave|My fiberglass boat has a serious mold problem behind the panels surrounding the keel trunk which sweats, and in the bilges. Based on internet research I've done I am going to paint the surfaces that can't be reached with copper filled epoxy, like you use on the bottom of the boat. Thee is a hospital study going on right now with copper coated bed rails, door knobs, bathroom fixtures etc. It has been shown that staph, MRSA and other infectious organisms live only a short time on copper, and can live forever on stainless steel. Interesting thing, none my lockers have a mold problem. My boat is an Etap with a foamed hull, so it doesn't sweat much. The locker doors design also contributes to keeping the mold at bay because the doors are not air tight. They are an interesting, simple, and cheap design too. All the cabinetry is 1/2" mahogany marine plywood. All doors were cut out using a 1/4" router bit. Then the edges of the opening and the edges of the cutout were tape veneered, reducing the gap to about 1/8". So there was absolutely no wasted material in making all the doors. The hinges have two L shaped leaves. The pin is located at the front surface, and the screws go into the back surface, not the edges of the plywood. There is a U shaped cutout for the latch. The latch is a round brass disk with a hole in the center for your finger, and a groove around the outside that fits over the plywood. A hole at the bottom of the U cutout holds a 1/4" spring that pushes the disk outwards. A keeper plate across the edge of the door keeps it from being pushed out all the way. The edges of the disk catch the edges of the door opening. Simple, nice looking, and very rugged. Gary H. Lucas ----- Original Message ----- From: "SHANE ROTHWELL" To: Sent: Monday, November 09, 2009 10:01 AM Subject: [origamiboats] Yacht Weave > Re Vinegar: in the early 80's they were having a major problem in a large > american hosptial with post-op infections, flesh eating disease or > something gruesom like that. after using lots of their "standard" sergical > disinfectants with nil results, they tried what the Romans did over 2,000 > years ago, a 50:50 solution of vinegar & water. It worked. It's all we use > around the house > > Re Methane: Mark, I have the same problem to the point I levitate at times > & have to be careful with heat sources, open flames & the like. Smoking > after sex proved disasterous, never saw the girl again she was so > terrified! But it Sounds like you are onto something there & there has to > be a market! More details Please. > > > . Re: Yacht weave... > Posted by: "markh" mhamill1@... sunbearone > Sun Nov 8, 2009 5:10 pm (PST) > > > > Gary: > That would be mildew. There are some cleaners that will remove the spots > and some new cleaners that really do an excellent job. They all seem to > contain bleach. In wooden boat i remember reading about a man that wiped > down his interior (boat) with white vinegar and water. He thought this > solution 1 vinegar 3 paarts water ???? seemed to really inhibit and > protect the surface. If you are at a dock and power an article in Currents > of the Bluewater Cruising assoc. stated that for comfortable liveaboard > during the winter (Vancouver, BC, Canada) the couple used a de-humidifier. > They emptied 22 litres-- 5 us gallons a week I think but it may have been > a much shorter time. The units seem to be expensive but maybe worth it?? > The body gives off about 1 litre a night of water (and apparently in my > case 45 litres of methane). This I save by...oh never mind. They also put > a 40 watt light bulb under their berth. They said the two things > dehumidifier and light bulb > made all the difference. The other thing you might do is paint the ply > with something like Behr kitchen and Batroom paint which has a mildew > gaurantee of 5 years. Mine lasted 3 years so save your receipt. But that > was my own fault. Anyway back to the methane==get a 45 gallon drum and 10 > foot of hose and stick the hose up your..... > All the best, MarkH > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: GP > To: origamiboats@ yahoogroups. com > Sent: Sunday, November 08, 2009 12:19 PM > Subject: [origamiboats] Yacht weave... > > I have some of those black mold dots growing on the underside of my v > birth cushions where I bunk down...pretty much in the location of my upper > body. Anyone have any luck with the weave material available at > chandleries that you place under cushions...apparent ly allows for > ventilation which prevents mold.... > > Also... that kind of mold is very tough to get rid of I found. > > ...thanks > Gary > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > __________________________________________________________________ > Looking for the perfect gift? Give the gift of Flickr! > > http://www.flickr.com/gift/ > | 21513|21511|2009-11-09 20:36:37|James Pronk|Re: Good, bad and the ugly....|Thanks Gary for the heads-up. But can we trust Fisheries Canada to do anything about it? So when are you back in the patch? James.  --- On Mon, 11/9/09, GP wrote: From: GP Subject: [origamiboats] Good, bad and the ugly.... To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Received: Monday, November 9, 2009, 1:54 PM   This post is related to your enjoyment of a fine cruising boat but not about building one. The Good of course is the still abundantly pristing BC wilderness coast north of Desolation Sound. The Bad and the Ugly... usual suspect...Big Money. Fish farms are spreading like a virus but are being resisted by outfitters, fishermen, first nations etc... So far 10,000 signatures and a court victory that is leading to a federal public enquiry on collapse of sockeye salmon runs many attritube to fish farm generated sea lice infections of salmon fry passing the farming pens... The good guys have the momentum right now and are asking for help in the way of a simple petition. Here is a quote from SalmonCoast. org folk leading this effort... "So I have embedded a flyer on my blog that you can download and post. We need to see the Fisheries Act applied ASAP. I will continue to lay charges under the Fisheries Act with your financial help, but this is a stop gap effort. The government should be doing this not us! We need 100,000 signatures on our letter at http://www.adopt- a-fry.org/ Next week is a Global Week of Action on salmon farms http://www.facebook .com/home. php?#/event. php?eid=16711243 4482& ref=ts Please view the film trailer http://www.youtube. com/watch? v=eggrGn0V0fg" ...thanks origami forum guys..... Gary __________________________________________________________________ Make your browsing faster, safer, and easier with the new Internet Explorer® 8. Optimized for Yahoo! Get it Now for Free! at http://downloads.yahoo.com/ca/internetexplorer/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 21514|21511|2009-11-09 23:24:51|Jon n Wanda|Re: Good, bad and the ugly....|There was a real interesting study a short time ago but I did not save it. The just of the study was as the PDO moves warm and cold current boundries North and South the Salmon runs follow. When it is good in Canada and Alaska it is poor in Oregon and vic-a-versa. We are having a great salmon run read that record setting in Southern Washington and Oregon down to Northern California. Up North it is low numbers. The study had graphs of ocean temp. and Salmon numbers in direct coralation. Personal expereance would also support this study as well as knolage from some old fisherman. The cycle is always changing it will recover soon with out putting the blame on anyone or thing unnatural. Jon --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, James Pronk wrote: > > Thanks Gary for the heads-up. > But can we trust Fisheries Canada to do anything about it? > So when are you back in the patch? > James.  | 21516|21511|2009-11-10 07:27:20|James Pronk|Re: Good, bad and the ugly....|For every one study that shows someone is doing something that is impacting the environment, there will be a study showing that it is a natural occurrence. I would like to see this study that it is the warm and cold current boundaries that is effecting the salmon run or is it the clean-up of the rivers and spawning grounds in  Washington, Oregon and Northern California that has brought the salmon back? James  --- On Mon, 11/9/09, Jon n Wanda wrote: From: Jon n Wanda Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Good, bad and the ugly.... To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Received: Monday, November 9, 2009, 11:24 PM   There was a real interesting study a short time ago but I did not save it. The just of the study was as the PDO moves warm and cold current boundries North and South the Salmon runs follow. When it is good in Canada and Alaska it is poor in Oregon and vic-a-versa. We are having a great salmon run read that record setting in Southern Washington and Oregon down to Northern California. Up North it is low numbers. The study had graphs of ocean temp. and Salmon numbers in direct coralation. Personal expereance would also support this study as well as knolage from some old fisherman. The cycle is always changing it will recover soon with out putting the blame on anyone or thing unnatural. Jon --- In origamiboats@ yahoogroups. com, James Pronk wrote: > > Thanks Gary for the heads-up. > But can we trust Fisheries Canada to do anything about it? > So when are you back in the patch? > James.  __________________________________________________________________ Be smarter than spam. See how smart SpamGuard is at giving junk email the boot with the All-new Yahoo! Mail. Click on Options in Mail and switch to New Mail today or register for free at http://mail.yahoo.ca [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 21517|22|2009-11-10 10:46:53|origamiboats@yahoogroups.com|New file uploaded to origamiboats |Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the origamiboats group. File : /Imagiro Boats./290CCGA-NR10-09.JPG Uploaded by : yvesmariedetanton Description : MK11. Midship Cockpit, General Arrangement.. Imagiro 39 Beyond. You can access this file at the URL: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/files/Imagiro%20Boats./290CCGA-NR10-09.JPG To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit: http://help.yahoo.com/l/us/yahoo/groups/original/general.htmlfiles Regards, yvesmariedetanton | 21518|21511|2009-11-10 15:06:36|Jon n Wanda|Re: Good, bad and the ugly....|It came out of one of the universities in the NW eather Wa or Or State department of oceanography and was on MSNBC science news. The problem is much of what we hear is agenda oriantated rather then real science. Cleaning up rivers and spawning arteas helps but food supply in the ocean and mixing at boundries is a greater inpact on survival while growing at sea. Wish I had saved it. Jon --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, James Pronk wrote: > > For every one study that shows someone is doing something that is impacting the environment, there will be a study showing that it is a natural occurrence. > I would like to see this study that it is the warm and cold current boundaries that is effecting the salmon run or is it the clean-up of the rivers and spawning grounds in  Washington, Oregon and Northern California that has brought the salmon back? > James  > > --- On Mon, 11/9/09, Jon n Wanda wrote: > > > From: Jon n Wanda > Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Good, bad and the ugly.... > To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > Received: Monday, November 9, 2009, 11:24 PM > > >   > > > > There was a real interesting study a short time ago but I did not save it. The just of the study was as the PDO moves warm and cold current boundries North and South the Salmon runs follow. When it is good in Canada and Alaska it is poor in Oregon and vic-a-versa. We are having a great salmon run read that record setting in Southern Washington and Oregon down to Northern California. Up North it is low numbers. The study had graphs of ocean temp. and Salmon numbers in direct coralation. Personal expereance would also support this study as well as knolage from some old fisherman. The cycle is always changing it will recover soon with out putting the blame on anyone or thing unnatural. > > Jon > > --- In origamiboats@ yahoogroups. com, James Pronk wrote: > > > > Thanks Gary for the heads-up. > > But can we trust Fisheries Canada to do anything about it? > > So when are you back in the patch? > > James.  > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________________________ > Be smarter than spam. See how smart SpamGuard is at giving junk email the boot with the All-new Yahoo! Mail. Click on Options in Mail and switch to New Mail today or register for free at http://mail.yahoo.ca > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > | 21519|21519|2009-11-10 17:33:05|edward|Nuthin Wong is in the UK|Captain Clive Hamman, master of the "Nuthin Wong" a Brent Swain designed origami boat with a junk rig, which Clive built in British Columbia some 17 years or so ago is now anchored in the Swale, Isle of Sheppey, Kent, England. Clive has a web direction; http://nuthin-wong.blogspot.com His book "No Fixed Address" is an interesting and excellent read: My wife enjoyed it too and is available via his blogspot. Regards, Ted| 21520|21510|2009-11-10 19:16:33|markh|Re: Yacht Weave|Gary: Have you contacted whomever is distributing the Copper dust now to make sure that there is enough copper exposed on the surface?? I used it to coat a hull once and they told right off the bat it was not going to work as an antifouling and that it was a sort of back up to the antifouling as it wears off. It makes the epoxy quite stiff so it goes on with a real rough texture if rolled on and has to be knock down or sanded which would expose more copper and perhaps be better for your purpose. Where do you live--I've got a full can of the copper poxy dust that I am never going to use. I think I paid $94 Canadian years ago for it. Cheers, Markh ----- Original Message ----- From: Gary H. Lucas To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, November 09, 2009 4:15 PM Subject: Re: [origamiboats] Yacht Weave My fiberglass boat has a serious mold problem behind the panels surrounding the keel trunk which sweats, and in the bilges. Based on internet research I've done I am going to paint the surfaces that can't be reached with copper filled epoxy, like you use on the bottom of the boat. Thee is a hospital study going on right now with copper coated bed rails, door knobs, bathroom fixtures etc. It has been shown that staph, MRSA and other infectious organisms live only a short time on copper, and can live forever on stainless steel. Interesting thing, none my lockers have a mold problem. My boat is an Etap with a foamed hull, so it doesn't sweat much. The locker doors design also contributes to keeping the mold at bay because the doors are not air tight. They are an interesting, simple, and cheap design too. All the cabinetry is 1/2" mahogany marine plywood. All doors were cut out using a 1/4" router bit. Then the edges of the opening and the edges of the cutout were tape veneered, reducing the gap to about 1/8". So there was absolutely no wasted material in making all the doors. The hinges have two L shaped leaves. The pin is located at the front surface, and the screws go into the back surface, not the edges of the plywood. There is a U shaped cutout for the latch. The latch is a round brass disk with a hole in the center for your finger, and a groove around the outside that fits over the plywood. A hole at the bottom of the U cutout holds a 1/4" spring that pushes the disk outwards. A keeper plate across the edge of the door keeps it from being pushed out all the way. The edges of the disk catch the edges of the door opening. Simple, nice looking, and very rugged. Gary H. Lucas ----- Original Message ----- From: "SHANE ROTHWELL" To: Sent: Monday, November 09, 2009 10:01 AM Subject: [origamiboats] Yacht Weave > Re Vinegar: in the early 80's they were having a major problem in a large > american hosptial with post-op infections, flesh eating disease or > something gruesom like that. after using lots of their "standard" sergical > disinfectants with nil results, they tried what the Romans did over 2,000 > years ago, a 50:50 solution of vinegar & water. It worked. It's all we use > around the house > > Re Methane: Mark, I have the same problem to the point I levitate at times > & have to be careful with heat sources, open flames & the like. Smoking > after sex proved disasterous, never saw the girl again she was so > terrified! But it Sounds like you are onto something there & there has to > be a market! More details Please. > > > . Re: Yacht weave... > Posted by: "markh" mhamill1@... sunbearone > Sun Nov 8, 2009 5:10 pm (PST) > > > > Gary: > That would be mildew. There are some cleaners that will remove the spots > and some new cleaners that really do an excellent job. They all seem to > contain bleach. In wooden boat i remember reading about a man that wiped > down his interior (boat) with white vinegar and water. He thought this > solution 1 vinegar 3 paarts water ???? seemed to really inhibit and > protect the surface. If you are at a dock and power an article in Currents > of the Bluewater Cruising assoc. stated that for comfortable liveaboard > during the winter (Vancouver, BC, Canada) the couple used a de-humidifier. > They emptied 22 litres-- 5 us gallons a week I think but it may have been > a much shorter time. The units seem to be expensive but maybe worth it?? > The body gives off about 1 litre a night of water (and apparently in my > case 45 litres of methane). This I save by...oh never mind. They also put > a 40 watt light bulb under their berth. They said the two things > dehumidifier and light bulb > made all the difference. The other thing you might do is paint the ply > with something like Behr kitchen and Batroom paint which has a mildew > gaurantee of 5 years. Mine lasted 3 years so save your receipt. But that > was my own fault. Anyway back to the methane==get a 45 gallon drum and 10 > foot of hose and stick the hose up your..... > All the best, MarkH > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: GP > To: origamiboats@ yahoogroups. com > Sent: Sunday, November 08, 2009 12:19 PM > Subject: [origamiboats] Yacht weave... > > I have some of those black mold dots growing on the underside of my v > birth cushions where I bunk down...pretty much in the location of my upper > body. Anyone have any luck with the weave material available at > chandleries that you place under cushions...apparent ly allows for > ventilation which prevents mold.... > > Also... that kind of mold is very tough to get rid of I found. > > ...thanks > Gary > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > __________________________________________________________ > Looking for the perfect gift? Give the gift of Flickr! > > http://www.flickr.com/gift/ > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 21522|21511|2009-11-12 01:18:03|Darren Bos|Re: Good, bad and the ugly....|Jon is right that changes in marine conditions (driven by the PDO) can strongly effect salmon survival (although the effect is not fully understood as evidenced by the recent massive miscalculation of the Fraser River salmon return). However, a change in the PDO may be an even greater reason to more tightly control fish farming. There are many factors that can stress salmon populations, adding fish farms to the list doesn't help. There is a growing body of evidence that fish farms are detrimental to the survival of young wild salmon. This is in addition to the massive body of literature that shows that the waste produced from fish farms kills much of the life on the nearby seafloor, with an even larger area that shows elevated levels of pollutants. These effects are exacerbated in sheltered areas fish farms prefer, like the ones we like to anchor in. I definitely don't want to anchor next to a fish farm. I do think they are detrimental to wilderness. Darren At 12:05 PM 10/11/2009, you wrote: > > >It came out of one of the universities in the NW >eather Wa or Or State department of oceanography >and was on MSNBC science news. The problem is >much of what we hear is agenda oriantated rather >then real science. Cleaning up rivers and >spawning arteas helps but food supply in the >ocean and mixing at boundries is a greater >inpact on survival while growing at sea. Wish I had saved it. > >Jon > >--- In >origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, >James Pronk wrote: > > > > For every one study that shows someone is > doing something that is impacting the > environment, there will be a study showing that it is a natural occurrence. > > I would like to see this study that it is > the warm and cold current boundaries that is > effecting the salmon run or is it the clean-up > of the rivers and spawning grounds > in Washington, Oregon and Northern > California that has brought the salmon back? > > James > > > > --- On Mon, 11/9/09, Jon n Wanda wrote: > > > > > > From: Jon n Wanda > > Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Good, bad and the ugly.... > > To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > Received: Monday, November 9, 2009, 11:24 PM > > > > > >  > > > > > > > > There was a real interesting study a short > time ago but I did not save it. The just of the > study was as the PDO moves warm and cold > current boundries North and South the Salmon > runs follow. When it is good in Canada and > Alaska it is poor in Oregon and vic-a-versa. We > are having a great salmon run read that record > setting in Southern Washington and Oregon down > to Northern California. Up North it is low > numbers. The study had graphs of ocean temp. > and Salmon numbers in direct coralation. > Personal expereance would also support this > study as well as knolage from some old > fisherman. The cycle is always changing it will > recover soon with out putting the blame on anyone or thing unnatural. > > > > Jon > > > > --- In origamiboats@ yahoogroups. com, James Pronk wrote: > > > > > > Thanks Gary for the heads-up. > > > But can we trust Fisheries Canada to do anything about it? > > > So when are you back in the patch? > > > James. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________________ > > Be smarter than spam. See how smart SpamGuard > is at giving junk email the boot with the > All-new Yahoo! Mail. Click on Options in Mail > and switch to New Mail today or register for > free at http://mail.yahoo.ca > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]| 21524|21507|2009-11-12 14:41:45|brentswain38|Re: Yacht weave...|I went for vinyle covered berth cushions in 1972 and haven't had a problem since. Sampson is even better and cheaper. Don't want to sit on plastic?Put a blanket or fabric cover over it. --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "GP" wrote: > > I have some of those black mold dots growing on the underside of my v birth cushions where I bunk down...pretty much in the location of my upper body. Anyone have any luck with the weave material available at chandleries that you place under cushions...apparently allows for ventilation which prevents mold.... > > Also... that kind of mold is very tough to get rid of I found. > > ...thanks > Gary > | 21525|21525|2009-11-13 03:20:24|Ralph|extra ballast|Brent, A 36' 5mm hull weights 5% more than a 3/16" hull. I would think that I have to add ballast lead. Is this thru – if yes how much? Maybe 5% extra lead? Thank you, Ralph| 21527|22|2009-11-14 16:13:10|origamiboats@yahoogroups.com|New file uploaded to origamiboats |Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the origamiboats group. File : /Imagiro Boats./229GRSTY-NR14-09.JPG Uploaded by : yvesmariedetanton Description : Gaff rig on the 39' aft cockpit Imagiro. You can access this file at the URL: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/files/Imagiro%20Boats./229GRSTY-NR14-09.JPG To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit: http://help.yahoo.com/l/us/yahoo/groups/original/general.htmlfiles Regards, yvesmariedetanton | 21528|21528|2009-11-14 22:50:53|wild_explorer|Another "painting" question|I know, there are many options for painting available. Did anybody try "Kollseal" products for boat's interior painting? This product is available in USA. There are different types of this brand available for different materials. http://www.koolseal.com/roof_type.asp I used Premium White Elastomeric Roof Coating 63-600 for RV's aluminum roof repair and was very pleased with the results. It makes "hard rubber" type coating and sticks very well to bare metal, fiberglass, etc. I used brush and roller to apply it - pretty easy and it looks good. Available in US for ~15USD/Gal This particular product has 10 years warranty, cured elastomeric film is mildew and algae resistant. More info: http://www.koolseal.com/product_detail.asp?product_id=63-600 I believe, it is acrylic based product (resin?) and it has its own limitations for cure temperature and humidity. http://www.koolseal.com/steps_elastomeric.asp Could somebody with knowledge in this field to comment possibility of using this product for steel boat coating (more likely interior)? I would be interested in all aspects (economical, possible problems for marine use, advantages/disadvantages, compatibility, etc)| 21529|21528|2009-11-15 00:46:34|Aaron Williams|Re: Another "painting" question| wild_explorer I see it as a water base product for easy wet clean up. I have it on the top of my motor home and will put it on the top of my shop roof. I dont see any reason for wanting to use this stuff on a steel boat. As a coating for an aluminum boat before foaming maybe. There are proven products for both. several people have done test with other products like Rust Bullit with some good short term results. Go buy a small can and coat 2 pieces of steel plate one white metal blasted and one not. hang them on the dock and check on them one a week. I bet you will have rust bubbles under the coating in 3 weeks. Aaron --- On Sat, 11/14/09, wild_explorer wrote: From: wild_explorer Subject: [origamiboats] Another "painting" question To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, November 14, 2009, 6:50 PM   I know, there are many options for painting available. Did anybody try "Kollseal" products for boat's interior painting? This product is available in USA. There are different types of this brand available for different materials. http://www.koolseal .com/roof_ type.asp I used Premium White Elastomeric Roof Coating 63-600 for RV's aluminum roof repair and was very pleased with the results. It makes "hard rubber" type coating and sticks very well to bare metal, fiberglass, etc. I used brush and roller to apply it - pretty easy and it looks good. Available in US for ~15USD/Gal This particular product has 10 years warranty, cured elastomeric film is mildew and algae resistant. More info: http://www.koolseal .com/product_ detail.asp? product_id= 63-600 I believe, it is acrylic based product (resin?) and it has its own limitations for cure temperature and humidity. http://www.koolseal .com/steps_ elastomeric. asp Could somebody with knowledge in this field to comment possibility of using this product for steel boat coating (more likely interior)? I would be interested in all aspects (economical, possible problems for marine use, advantages/disadvan tages, compatibility, etc) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 21530|21528|2009-11-15 08:20:48|David Frantz|Re: Another "painting" question|I have no personal experience but I'd suggest contacting the manufacture for technical support. They should be able to comment directly on your intended usage. As to the interior of the boat I'm not to sure what to say but have two points. 1. is it flammable or fire retardant. 2. Is it effectively non slip? If it is slip resistant it might make a nice surface for floors, steps and other areas you walk on. The question is durability. Roofing materials aren't known to hold up well to foot traffic. David A Frantz websterindustro@... Sent from my iPhone. On Nov 14, 2009, at 10:50 PM, wild_explorer wrote: > I know, there are many options for painting available. Did anybody > try "Kollseal" products for boat's interior painting? This product > is available in USA. > > There are different types of this brand available for different > materials. > > http://www.koolseal.com/roof_type.asp > > I used Premium White Elastomeric Roof Coating 63-600 for RV's > aluminum roof repair and was very pleased with the results. It makes > "hard rubber" type coating and sticks very well to bare metal, > fiberglass, etc. I used brush and roller to apply it - pretty easy > and it looks good. Available in US for ~15USD/Gal > > This particular product has 10 years warranty, cured elastomeric > film is mildew and algae resistant. > > More info: > > http://www.koolseal.com/product_detail.asp?product_id=63-600 > > > I believe, it is acrylic based product (resin?) and it has its own > limitations for cure temperature and humidity. > > http://www.koolseal.com/steps_elastomeric.asp > > Could somebody with knowledge in this field to comment possibility > of using this product for steel boat coating (more likely interior)? > I would be interested in all aspects (economical, possible problems > for marine use, advantages/disadvantages, compatibility, etc) > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.comYahoo > ! Groups Links > > > | 21531|21531|2009-11-15 12:28:48|Jonathan Stevens|Rust Bullet|There has been lots of discussion whilst I've been on this board about Rust Bullet; I know some of you were trying it out here and there. Are there any clear results to share yet? Jonathan. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]| 21532|21531|2009-11-15 12:42:05|Jay K. Jeffries|Re: Rust Bullet|Jonathan, I take care of a variety of mechanical systems exposed to hot tropical heat on the water front. While top quality epoxy paints work when applied properly, Rust Bullet goes on easy and provides a tough protective layer. Rust Bullet has proved a better coating when used on rotating equipment such as pumps and nearby piping. Rust Bullet will also work when applied over light rust where others would quickly fail. R/Jay Andros Is., Bahamas From: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com [mailto:origamiboats@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jonathan Stevens Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2009 12:29 PM To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Subject: [origamiboats] Rust Bullet There has been lots of discussion whilst I've been on this board about Rust Bullet; I know some of you were trying it out here and there. Are there any clear results to share yet? Jonathan. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]| 21533|21533|2009-11-17 10:02:30|garymaceoin|Plans for sale|I have been going through my pile of plans and will post them here with prices if anyone is interested. Buehler's BUTTON study plans $20 Buehler's Jullian Adderly full sized plans $35 Bolger's Birdwatcher $40 Bolger's Black Skimmer $20 Bolger's Micro Trawler $45 Bolger's Sneakeasy $10 Michalak's Vector $10 Michalak's Viola 26 $10 Michalak's Smoar $10 Brett Swains 26' origami $50 B&B yachts Core sound 17 $30 Common sense designs Seadragon $35 Benford's 26 Sailing Dory $10 Buehlers PILGRIM 44 ??? As for the Pilgrim plans I am still trying to figure a fair price, email me if you are interested. garymaceoin@... Thanks| 21534|21525|2009-11-17 15:31:42|brentswain38|Re: extra ballast|5% is tiny when you compare it to the huge differences that different owners with different habits would put in a boat, in terms of personal belongings. Don't worry about it. --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Ralph" wrote: > > Brent, > > A 36' 5mm hull weights 5% more than a 3/16" hull. I would think that I have to add ballast lead. Is this thru – if yes how much? Maybe 5% extra lead? > > Thank you, > Ralph > | 21535|21525|2009-11-18 02:41:04|Wally Paine|Re: extra ballast|Hello Brent, You mentioned awhile back that you modified one of your designs for the Arctic giving it a centerboard.  I presume the ballast went into the bilges. Is that so? Did you need to increase the weight of it. Was the boat noticable less stiff? Wally Paine --- On Tue, 17/11/09, brentswain38 wrote: From: brentswain38 Subject: [origamiboats] Re: extra ballast To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, 17 November, 2009, 20:30   5% is tiny when you compare it to the huge differences that different owners with different habits would put in a boat, in terms of personal belongings. Don't worry about it. --- In origamiboats@ yahoogroups. com, "Ralph" wrote: > > Brent, > > A 36' 5mm hull weights 5% more than a 3/16" hull. I would think that I have to add ballast lead. Is this thru – if yes how much? Maybe 5% extra lead? > > Thank you, > Ralph > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 21536|21533|2009-11-18 09:43:14|Carl Volkwein|Re: Plans for sale|I can't find anything on the web about the 26' dory, I mite be interested, can it be built in steel? carlvolkwein @ Yahoo.com --- On Tue, 11/17/09, garymaceoin wrote: From: garymaceoin Subject: [origamiboats] Plans for sale To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, November 17, 2009, 10:00 AM   I have been going through my pile of plans and will post them here with prices if anyone is interested. Buehler's BUTTON study plans $20 Buehler's Jullian Adderly full sized plans $35 Bolger's Birdwatcher $40 Bolger's Black Skimmer $20 Bolger's Micro Trawler $45 Bolger's Sneakeasy $10 Michalak's Vector $10 Michalak's Viola 26 $10 Michalak's Smoar $10 Brett Swains 26' origami $50 B&B yachts Core sound 17 $30 Common sense designs Seadragon $35 Benford's 26 Sailing Dory $10 Buehlers PILGRIM 44 ??? As for the Pilgrim plans I am still trying to figure a fair price, email me if you are interested. garymaceoin@ yahoo.com Thanks [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 21537|21537|2009-11-18 14:43:18|markh|DIY sandblast companies Comox valley??|Anybody recommend a Comox Valley DIY sandblaster---for small pieces like a trailer?? Thanks, MarkH [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]| 21538|21537|2009-11-18 21:13:18|Keith Green|Re: DIY sandblast companies Comox valley??|I bought a WetBlaster attachment from Princess Auto for $80. Attach it to a pressure washer and drop the siphon in a bucket of dry sand and away you go. You need a decent pressure washer of 2500 PSI and up (not one of those crappy little home-owner jobs from Simonize or Karcher). You can use regular sand for it (as long as you screen it for trash) as the water does not allow any dust. Should be able to do a 20 ft trailer in under 2 hours. Works great. Keith. markh wrote: > Anybody recommend a Comox Valley DIY sandblaster---for small pieces like a trailer?? > Thanks, MarkH > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.comYahoo! Groups Links > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 9.0.707 / Virus Database: 270.14.73/2512 - Release Date: 11/18/09 11:41:00 > > | 21540|21533|2009-11-19 16:42:05|ANDREW AIREY|Plans for sale|If it's the 26ft raised deck cutter there's a little bit about it - and the other Benson Dories - in Annie Hill' book 'Voyaging on a small income' cheers Andy Airey Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com| 21541|21525|2009-11-19 22:06:07|brentswain38|Re: extra ballast|The owner modified it for the NW passage. He left a stub keel on for the ballast then put the centreboard in the stub keel. It banged around too much so he stopped using the centerboard. Ice presure would unavoidably force twin keels together so I suggested the centreboard as a better option . For anywhere else but the NW pasage twin keels are a far better option. The draft would be the same as the stub keel. --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Wally Paine wrote: > > Hello Brent, > You mentioned awhile back that you modified one of your designs for the Arctic giving it a centerboard.  I presume the ballast went into the bilges. Is that so? Did you need to increase the weight of it. Was the boat noticable less stiff? > Wally Paine > --- On Tue, 17/11/09, brentswain38 wrote: > > From: brentswain38 > Subject: [origamiboats] Re: extra ballast > To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > Date: Tuesday, 17 November, 2009, 20:30 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >  > > > > > > > > > > 5% is tiny when you compare it to the huge differences that different owners with different habits would put in a boat, in terms of personal belongings. Don't worry about it. > > > > --- In origamiboats@ yahoogroups. com, "Ralph" wrote: > > > > > > Brent, > > > > > > A 36' 5mm hull weights 5% more than a 3/16" hull. I would think that I have to add ballast lead. Is this thru â€" if yes how much? Maybe 5% extra lead? > > > > > > Thank you, > > > Ralph > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > | 21542|21525|2009-11-19 22:41:52|aaron riis|tiger foam|  hey, it looks like the local foam guy is out of buisness, so Im back to considering the tigerfoam kit 600bd ft, has anyone done this or  is this foam appropriate?  it sells for about $750 cdn plus freight. Aaron     --- On Thu, 11/19/09, brentswain38 wrote: From: brentswain38 Subject: [origamiboats] Re: extra ballast To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Received: Thursday, November 19, 2009, 7:05 PM   The owner modified it for the NW passage. He left a stub keel on for the ballast then put the centreboard in the stub keel. It banged around too much so he stopped using the centerboard. Ice presure would unavoidably force twin keels together so I suggested the centreboard as a better option . For anywhere else but the NW pasage twin keels are a far better option. The draft would be the same as the stub keel. --- In origamiboats@ yahoogroups. com, Wally Paine wrote: > > Hello Brent, > You mentioned awhile back that you modified one of your designs for the Arctic giving it a centerboard.  I presume the ballast went into the bilges. Is that so? Did you need to increase the weight of it. Was the boat noticable less stiff? > Wally Paine > --- On Tue, 17/11/09, brentswain38 wrote: > > From: brentswain38 > Subject: [origamiboats] Re: extra ballast > To: origamiboats@ yahoogroups. com > Date: Tuesday, 17 November, 2009, 20:30 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >  > > > > > > > > > > 5% is tiny when you compare it to the huge differences that different owners with different habits would put in a boat, in terms of personal belongings. Don't worry about it. > > > > --- In origamiboats@ yahoogroups. com, "Ralph" wrote: > > > > > > Brent, > > > > > > A 36' 5mm hull weights 5% more than a 3/16" hull. I would think that I have to add ballast lead. Is this thru â€" if yes how much? Maybe 5% extra lead? > > > > > > Thank you, > > > Ralph > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > __________________________________________________________________ Be smarter than spam. See how smart SpamGuard is at giving junk email the boot with the All-new Yahoo! Mail. Click on Options in Mail and switch to New Mail today or register for free at http://mail.yahoo.ca [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 21544|21525|2009-11-20 20:22:13|James Pronk|tiger foam|I see if you buy 3 or more kits you can get a discount. How much would you need would 600 board feet do it? James __________________________________________________________________ Looking for the perfect gift? Give the gift of Flickr! http://www.flickr.com/gift/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]| 21545|21525|2009-11-21 23:34:11|aaron riis|Re: tiger foam|i think 600 should do it for the 26 assuming that i dont waste to much. aaron --- On Fri, 11/20/09, James Pronk wrote: From: James Pronk Subject: [origamiboats] tiger foam To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Received: Friday, November 20, 2009, 5:22 PM   I see if you buy 3 or more kits you can get a discount. How much would you need would 600 board feet do it? James ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _ Looking for the perfect gift? Give the gift of Flickr! http://www.flickr com/gift/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] __________________________________________________________________ The new Internet Explorer® 8 - Faster, safer, easier. Optimized for Yahoo! Get it Now for Free! at http://downloads.yahoo.com/ca/internetexplorer/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 21546|21546|2009-11-22 13:14:22|mickeyolaf|Neoprene|Have any of u ever tried neoprene instead of using a bedding compound? I bought a sheet of closed cell neoprene the other day about a 1/4" thick. Thought I would try the product under the mast tray and the winches and some of the deck fittings. Compressed down it shouldn't hold water or remain damp and should seal (in theory).I was going to use a touch of Rule around the bolts. Neoprene would make it much easier to remove fittings if they had to come up. Good idea or bad idea? I wouldn't want to find the paint lifted from moisture sitting under the fittings if I ever removed them. I see Harken is now supplying Neoprene gaskets with some of their fittings.| 21547|21547|2009-11-22 13:22:09|mickeyolaf|Quantum Sails|Have any of you ever had sails made by Quantum Sails in North Vancouver or any experience with them? I'm trying to decide who is going to make mine.| 21548|21548|2009-11-22 13:46:21|mickeyolaf|Canadian Marine Stores|Once again our Canadian marine retailers have confirmed my theory they are ripping off Canadian Boaters. I just needed a new DC 0-50 Amp Meter. In Vancouver $105.99. In North Vancouver $107.99. On the internet $43.00 US. In Bellingham,Wa at a marine store $58.00.US I don't get it. I should check the parking lots behind our Canadian marine stores to see if the owners are driving Jags and Beemers. I should be able to go my local shop and buy an item at a fair price. Instead I have to waste hours seeking it out where I'm not being ripped off. Which is always somewhere other than Vancouver. I've done this searching out for items hundreds of times now to finish this boat. It's a huge waste of my time but my way of thumbing my nose at people who's prices are nothing more than theft. I think what really bugs me is the store owners must think we're all stupid.| 21549|21548|2009-11-22 14:35:52|Gord Schnell|Re: Canadian Marine Stores|They do think we are stupid...and the fact of the matter is....most boaters are.....they are used to being "hosed" and don't know the difference. It's only resourceful types who would consider building their own boat and/or buying boat components for a "reasonable" price, who would question the system and seek out cheaper sources. The automotive industry is similar but the markups aren't as ridiculous. I'm currently seeking "in-tank" fuel pumps for mine. The marine industry is asking approx. $500. per pump. The auto industry wants about $150 per pump......on-line, they are available for about $35. You just have to be determined to "beat the system" Gord (sorry about the rant) On 22-Nov-09, at 10:46 AM, mickeyolaf wrote: > Once again our Canadian marine retailers have confirmed my theory > they are ripping off Canadian Boaters. > > I just needed a new DC 0-50 Amp Meter. In Vancouver $105.99. In > North Vancouver $107.99. > > On the internet $43.00 US. In Bellingham,Wa at a marine store > $58.00.US > > I don't get it. I should check the parking lots behind our Canadian > marine stores to see if the owners are driving Jags and Beemers. > > I should be able to go my local shop and buy an item at a fair price. > > Instead I have to waste hours seeking it out where I'm not being > ripped off. Which is always somewhere other than Vancouver. > > I've done this searching out for items hundreds of times now to > finish this boat. It's a huge waste of my time but my way of > thumbing my nose at people who's prices are nothing more than theft. > > I think what really bugs me is the store owners must think we're all > stupid. > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 21550|21548|2009-11-22 18:02:25|GP|Re: Canadian Marine Stores|...and I am currently seeking jabsco or equivalent water pump for my 27 hp yanmar diesel... the pump runs salt water intake for exhaust cooling and engine coolant (separate but same pumps)... be most happy to hear of alternate supplier than local who are quoting $500 new. ...thanks --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Gord Schnell wrote: > > They do think we are stupid...and the fact of the matter is....most > boaters are.....they are used to being "hosed" and don't know the > difference. It's only resourceful types who would consider building > their own boat and/or buying boat components for a "reasonable" price, > who would question the system and seek out cheaper sources. The > automotive industry is similar but the markups aren't as ridiculous. > I'm currently seeking "in-tank" fuel pumps for mine. The marine > industry is asking approx. $500. per pump. The auto industry wants > about $150 per pump......on-line, they are available for about $35. > You just have to be determined to "beat the system" > Gord (sorry about the rant) > > On 22-Nov-09, at 10:46 AM, mickeyolaf wrote: > > > Once again our Canadian marine retailers have confirmed my theory > > they are ripping off Canadian Boaters. > > > > I just needed a new DC 0-50 Amp Meter. In Vancouver $105.99. In > > North Vancouver $107.99. > > > > On the internet $43.00 US. In Bellingham,Wa at a marine store > > $58.00.US > > > > I don't get it. I should check the parking lots behind our Canadian > > marine stores to see if the owners are driving Jags and Beemers. > > > > I should be able to go my local shop and buy an item at a fair price. > > > > Instead I have to waste hours seeking it out where I'm not being > > ripped off. Which is always somewhere other than Vancouver. > > > > I've done this searching out for items hundreds of times now to > > finish this boat. It's a huge waste of my time but my way of > > thumbing my nose at people who's prices are nothing more than theft. > > > > I think what really bugs me is the store owners must think we're all > > stupid. > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > | 21551|21547|2009-11-22 18:22:56|markh|Quantum Sails|How about Lee Sails in Vancouver? Lee Sails.ca [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]| 21552|21548|2009-11-22 18:54:27|martin demers|Re: Canadian Marine Stores|Just an example, you can get a Dickinson solid fuel stove for $335.00 in usa, this item is made in Canada and you will pay much more than that here in Canada, is it normal? Martin. To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com From: mickeyolaf@... Date: Sun, 22 Nov 2009 18:46:01 +0000 Subject: [origamiboats] Canadian Marine Stores Once again our Canadian marine retailers have confirmed my theory they are ripping off Canadian Boaters. I just needed a new DC 0-50 Amp Meter. In Vancouver $105.99. In North Vancouver $107.99. On the internet $43.00 US. In Bellingham,Wa at a marine store $58.00.US I don't get it. I should check the parking lots behind our Canadian marine stores to see if the owners are driving Jags and Beemers. I should be able to go my local shop and buy an item at a fair price. Instead I have to waste hours seeking it out where I'm not being ripped off. Which is always somewhere other than Vancouver. I've done this searching out for items hundreds of times now to finish this boat. It's a huge waste of my time but my way of thumbing my nose at people who's prices are nothing more than theft. I think what really bugs me is the store owners must think we're all stupid. _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live : vos amis re�oivent vos nouveaut�s Facebook, Twitter et MySpace lorsqu'ils vous envoient un message �lectronique. http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9691827 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]| 21553|21548|2009-11-22 19:03:10|Gord Schnell|Re: Canadian Marine Stores|Here are a half dozen. I don't know your model number, so I assumed it was this. Hope this gives you a starting place. Gord http://www.google.com/products?http://www.google.com/products? hl=en&client=safari&rls=en&q=water+pump,+Yanmar + 3GM30F &um = 1 &ie = UTF -8 &ei = cc8JS8C8LYeAsgPAtuXACQ &sa=X&oi=product_result_group&ct=title&resnum=4&ved=0CCoQrQQwAw > ...and I am currently seeking jabsco or equivalent water pump for my > 27 hp yanmar diesel... the pump runs salt water intake for exhaust > cooling and engine coolant (separate but same pumps)... be most > happy to hear of alternate supplier than local who are quoting $500 > new. > > ...thanks > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Gord Schnell > wrote: > > > > They do think we are stupid...and the fact of the matter is....most > > boaters are.....they are used to being "hosed" and don't know the > > difference. It's only resourceful types who would consider building > > their own boat and/or buying boat components for a "reasonable" > price, > > who would question the system and seek out cheaper sources. The > > automotive industry is similar but the markups aren't as ridiculous. > > I'm currently seeking "in-tank" fuel pumps for mine. The marine > > industry is asking approx. $500. per pump. The auto industry wants > > about $150 per pump......on-line, they are available for about $35. > > You just have to be determined to "beat the system" > > Gord (sorry about the rant) > > > > On 22-Nov-09, at 10:46 AM, mickeyolaf wrote: > > > > > Once again our Canadian marine retailers have confirmed my theory > > > they are ripping off Canadian Boaters. > > > > > > I just needed a new DC 0-50 Amp Meter. In Vancouver $105.99. In > > > North Vancouver $107.99. > > > > > > On the internet $43.00 US. In Bellingham,Wa at a marine store > > > $58.00.US > > > > > > I don't get it. I should check the parking lots behind our > Canadian > > > marine stores to see if the owners are driving Jags and Beemers. > > > > > > I should be able to go my local shop and buy an item at a fair > price. > > > > > > Instead I have to waste hours seeking it out where I'm not being > > > ripped off. Which is always somewhere other than Vancouver. > > > > > > I've done this searching out for items hundreds of times now to > > > finish this boat. It's a huge waste of my time but my way of > > > thumbing my nose at people who's prices are nothing more than > theft. > > > > > > I think what really bugs me is the store owners must think we're > all > > > stupid. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]| 21554|21548|2009-11-22 19:24:55|Gord Schnell|Re: Canadian Marine Stores|email sure messed up the url: The next 3 lines are the url G http://www.google.com/products?http://www.google.com/products? %20hl=en&client=safari&rls=en&q=water+pump,+Yanmar%20+%203GM30F%20&um %20=%201%20&ie%20=%20UTF%20-8%20&ei%20=%20cc8JS8C8LYeAsgPAtuXACQ %20&sa=X&oi=product_result_group&ct=title&resnum=4&ved=0CCoQrQQwAwOn 22-Nov-09, at 4:02 PM, Gord Schnell wrote: > Here are a half dozen. I don't know your model number, so I assumed it > was this. Hope this gives you a starting place. > Gord > http://www.google.com/products?http://www.google.com/products? > hl=en&client=safari&rls=en&q=water+pump,+Yanmar > + > 3GM30F > &um > = > 1 > &ie > = > UTF > -8 > &ei > = > cc8JS8C8LYeAsgPAtuXACQ > &sa=X&oi=product_result_group&ct=title&resnum=4&ved=0CCoQrQQwAw >> ...and I am currently seeking jabsco or equivalent water pump for my >> 27 hp yanmar diesel... the pump runs salt water intake for exhaust >> cooling and engine coolant (separate but same pumps)... be most >> happy to hear of alternate supplier than local who are quoting $500 >> new. >> >> ...thanks >> >> --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Gord Schnell >> wrote: >>> >>> They do think we are stupid...and the fact of the matter is....most >>> boaters are.....they are used to being "hosed" and don't know the >>> difference. It's only resourceful types who would consider building >>> their own boat and/or buying boat components for a "reasonable" >> price, >>> who would question the system and seek out cheaper sources. The >>> automotive industry is similar but the markups aren't as ridiculous. >>> I'm currently seeking "in-tank" fuel pumps for mine. The marine >>> industry is asking approx. $500. per pump. The auto industry wants >>> about $150 per pump......on-line, they are available for about $35. >>> You just have to be determined to "beat the system" >>> Gord (sorry about the rant) >>> >>> On 22-Nov-09, at 10:46 AM, mickeyolaf wrote: >>> >>>> Once again our Canadian marine retailers have confirmed my theory >>>> they are ripping off Canadian Boaters. >>>> >>>> I just needed a new DC 0-50 Amp Meter. In Vancouver $105.99. In >>>> North Vancouver $107.99. >>>> >>>> On the internet $43.00 US. In Bellingham,Wa at a marine store >>>> $58.00.US >>>> >>>> I don't get it. I should check the parking lots behind our >> Canadian >>>> marine stores to see if the owners are driving Jags and Beemers. >>>> >>>> I should be able to go my local shop and buy an item at a fair >> price. >>>> >>>> Instead I have to waste hours seeking it out where I'm not being >>>> ripped off. Which is always somewhere other than Vancouver. >>>> >>>> I've done this searching out for items hundreds of times now to >>>> finish this boat. It's a huge waste of my time but my way of >>>> thumbing my nose at people who's prices are nothing more than >> theft. >>>> >>>> I think what really bugs me is the store owners must think we're >> all >>>> stupid. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >>> >> >> >> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.comYahoo > ! Groups Links > > > | 21556|21548|2009-11-23 06:16:06|scott|Re: Canadian Marine Stores|I am rebuilding a battery cable system on my new boat. using a central buss bar to handle hi amps for a 3000 watt inverter. I needed about 100 feet of 4awg battery cable. and 6 feet of 4/0 awg. West marine 5+ dollars us a foot and 17 dollars a foot respectively.. genuinedealz.com with free shipping was 1.55 and 7.50 a foot for good tinned marine cable. :) though I did get west marine to pricematch what they had in stock. According to them I got it for 1 penny under what it showed as their price in the system. I will say this.. any physical store is going to have to charge more to cover their overhead of a store front. Just a fact of life. I try to buy local as much as I can but I also pricematch anywhere I can. If it starts to add up to major dollar differences I go with the online source. Other examples.. Xantrex 50 amp XC charger. west marine 735. Online prices were 499 to 519. west marine price matched this. I needed a specific horizontal mount propane tank to fit the new boats propane locker. most vendors were selling it for 250 to 320 dollars. uscarbs.com sold me one and shipped it to me for 144. Same thing for a propane control with solenoid and sensor. West marine sells the system for 350 dollars... I found one on the internet for 175 including shipping. I couldn't have afforded to get all this if I had to pay the inflated prices. I figure I have saved over a thousand dollars 5 or 6 purchases.. I saved more than I spent. Do your research and it can pay off big time. The internet is your friend.| 21557|21548|2009-11-23 08:49:59|Carl Anderson|Re: Canadian Marine Stores|Mickey, No its the sales people that have the Jags & Beemers.... The OWNERS cars are the Saleens & Rolls that you see parked in the back!! Through consistent price shopping I saved countless thousands of dollars in outfitting my boat. Most items were purchased via the internet from suppliers in the USA. Carl sv-mom.com mickeyolaf wrote: > > > Once again our Canadian marine retailers have confirmed my theory they > are ripping off Canadian Boaters. > > I just needed a new DC 0-50 Amp Meter. In Vancouver $105.99. In North > Vancouver $107.99. > > On the internet $43.00 US. In Bellingham,Wa at a marine store $58.00.US > > I don't get it. I should check the parking lots behind our Canadian > marine stores to see if the owners are driving Jags and Beemers. > > I should be able to go my local shop and buy an item at a fair price. > > Instead I have to waste hours seeking it out where I'm not being ripped > off. Which is always somewhere other than Vancouver. > > I've done this searching out for items hundreds of times now to finish > this boat. It's a huge waste of my time but my way of thumbing my nose > at people who's prices are nothing more than theft. > > I think what really bugs me is the store owners must think we're all stupid. > > | 21558|21548|2009-11-23 10:13:55|Gord Schnell|Re: Canadian Marine Stores|Scott I found the large welding supply companies to offer the best per/ft. pricing for this kind of heavy flexible power cabling. You can buy various solder-on connectors. The solder keeps the connections corrosion free. Gord On 23-Nov-09, at 3:15 AM, scott wrote: > > I am rebuilding a battery cable system on my new boat. using a > central buss bar to handle hi amps for a 3000 watt inverter. I > needed about 100 feet of 4awg battery cable. and 6 feet of 4/0 awg. > West marine 5+ dollars us a foot and 17 dollars a foot > respectively.. genuinedealz.com with free shipping was 1.55 and 7.50 > a foot for good tinned marine cable. :) though I did get west marine > to pricematch what they had in stock. According to them I got it for > 1 penny under what it showed as their price in the system. > > I will say this.. any physical store is going to have to charge more > to cover their overhead of a store front. Just a fact of life. I try > to buy local as much as I can but I also pricematch anywhere I can. > If it starts to add up to major dollar differences I go with the > online source. > > Other examples.. Xantrex 50 amp XC charger. west marine 735. Online > prices were 499 to 519. west marine price matched this. > > I needed a specific horizontal mount propane tank to fit the new > boats propane locker. most vendors were selling it for 250 to 320 > dollars. uscarbs.com sold me one and shipped it to me for 144. > > Same thing for a propane control with solenoid and sensor. West > marine sells the system for 350 dollars... I found one on the > internet for 175 including shipping. > > I couldn't have afforded to get all this if I had to pay the > inflated prices. I figure I have saved over a thousand dollars 5 or > 6 purchases.. I saved more than I spent. > > Do your research and it can pay off big time. The internet is your > friend. > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 21559|21548|2009-11-23 15:33:32|brentswain38|Re: Canadian Marine Stores|I've been cruising mostly full time for 35 years and have never owned a amp meter. Look for sources other than marine stores, like auto supplies and auto wreckers. People spend $500 for alternators that auto wreckers sell for $35. Other than sail track and rope, there is nothing you should have to buy new from marine suppliers before going for your first cruise. --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "mickeyolaf" wrote: > > Once again our Canadian marine retailers have confirmed my theory they are ripping off Canadian Boaters. > > I just needed a new DC 0-50 Amp Meter. In Vancouver $105.99. In North Vancouver $107.99. > > On the internet $43.00 US. In Bellingham,Wa at a marine store $58.00.US > > I don't get it. I should check the parking lots behind our Canadian marine stores to see if the owners are driving Jags and Beemers. > > I should be able to go my local shop and buy an item at a fair price. > > Instead I have to waste hours seeking it out where I'm not being ripped off. Which is always somewhere other than Vancouver. > > I've done this searching out for items hundreds of times now to finish this boat. It's a huge waste of my time but my way of thumbing my nose at people who's prices are nothing more than theft. > > I think what really bugs me is the store owners must think we're all stupid. > | 21560|21546|2009-11-23 15:36:55|brentswain38|Re: Neoprene|As mentioned in my book, I've used neporene in conjuction with goop to seal my ports, with good success. Others have also had success with that combo. --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "mickeyolaf" wrote: > > Have any of u ever tried neoprene instead of using a bedding compound? > > I bought a sheet of closed cell neoprene the other day about a 1/4" thick. Thought I would try the product under the mast tray and the winches and some of the deck fittings. > > Compressed down it shouldn't hold water or remain damp and should seal (in theory).I was going to use a touch of Rule around the bolts. > > Neoprene would make it much easier to remove fittings if they had to come up. > > Good idea or bad idea? > > I wouldn't want to find the paint lifted from moisture sitting under the fittings if I ever removed them. > > I see Harken is now supplying Neoprene gaskets with some of their fittings. > | 21561|21548|2009-11-23 15:42:56|brentswain38|Re: Canadian Marine Stores|Princess Auto has it cheap. --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Gord Schnell wrote: > > Scott > I found the large welding supply companies to offer the best per/ft. > pricing for this kind of heavy flexible power cabling. You can buy > various solder-on connectors. The solder keeps the connections > corrosion free. > Gord > > On 23-Nov-09, at 3:15 AM, scott wrote: > > > > > I am rebuilding a battery cable system on my new boat. using a > > central buss bar to handle hi amps for a 3000 watt inverter. I > > needed about 100 feet of 4awg battery cable. and 6 feet of 4/0 awg. > > West marine 5+ dollars us a foot and 17 dollars a foot > > respectively.. genuinedealz.com with free shipping was 1.55 and 7.50 > > a foot for good tinned marine cable. :) though I did get west marine > > to pricematch what they had in stock. According to them I got it for > > 1 penny under what it showed as their price in the system. > > > > I will say this.. any physical store is going to have to charge more > > to cover their overhead of a store front. Just a fact of life. I try > > to buy local as much as I can but I also pricematch anywhere I can. > > If it starts to add up to major dollar differences I go with the > > online source. > > > > Other examples.. Xantrex 50 amp XC charger. west marine 735. Online > > prices were 499 to 519. west marine price matched this. > > > > I needed a specific horizontal mount propane tank to fit the new > > boats propane locker. most vendors were selling it for 250 to 320 > > dollars. uscarbs.com sold me one and shipped it to me for 144. > > > > Same thing for a propane control with solenoid and sensor. West > > marine sells the system for 350 dollars... I found one on the > > internet for 175 including shipping. > > > > I couldn't have afforded to get all this if I had to pay the > > inflated prices. I figure I have saved over a thousand dollars 5 or > > 6 purchases.. I saved more than I spent. > > > > Do your research and it can pay off big time. The internet is your > > friend. > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > | 21562|21548|2009-11-23 15:43:41|brentswain38|Re: Canadian Marine Stores|Gary I'd like to have a look at your pump before you chuck it. I think I could weld up a solid stainless impeller for it to make it into a centrifugal pump, which would be trouble free for decades. Look for a stainless fender washer the size of your impeller housing, to weld the blades on. Better yet, go for a dry exhuast, like I've been telling you to do for years. --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "GP" wrote: > > ...and I am currently seeking jabsco or equivalent water pump for my 27 hp yanmar diesel... the pump runs salt water intake for exhaust cooling and engine coolant (separate but same pumps)... be most happy to hear of alternate supplier than local who are quoting $500 new. > > ...thanks > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Gord Schnell wrote: > > > > They do think we are stupid...and the fact of the matter is....most > > boaters are.....they are used to being "hosed" and don't know the > > difference. It's only resourceful types who would consider building > > their own boat and/or buying boat components for a "reasonable" price, > > who would question the system and seek out cheaper sources. The > > automotive industry is similar but the markups aren't as ridiculous. > > I'm currently seeking "in-tank" fuel pumps for mine. The marine > > industry is asking approx. $500. per pump. The auto industry wants > > about $150 per pump......on-line, they are available for about $35. > > You just have to be determined to "beat the system" > > Gord (sorry about the rant) > > > > On 22-Nov-09, at 10:46 AM, mickeyolaf wrote: > > > > > Once again our Canadian marine retailers have confirmed my theory > > > they are ripping off Canadian Boaters. > > > > > > I just needed a new DC 0-50 Amp Meter. In Vancouver $105.99. In > > > North Vancouver $107.99. > > > > > > On the internet $43.00 US. In Bellingham,Wa at a marine store > > > $58.00.US > > > > > > I don't get it. I should check the parking lots behind our Canadian > > > marine stores to see if the owners are driving Jags and Beemers. > > > > > > I should be able to go my local shop and buy an item at a fair price. > > > > > > Instead I have to waste hours seeking it out where I'm not being > > > ripped off. Which is always somewhere other than Vancouver. > > > > > > I've done this searching out for items hundreds of times now to > > > finish this boat. It's a huge waste of my time but my way of > > > thumbing my nose at people who's prices are nothing more than theft. > > > > > > I think what really bugs me is the store owners must think we're all > > > stupid. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > | 21563|21533|2009-11-23 16:11:27|garymaceoin|Re: Plans for sale|ALL PLANS ARE SOLD, except for the Pilgrim 44, thanks for looking and buying. If you are interested in the pilgrim plans, let me know via email. --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "garymaceoin" wrote: > > I have been going through my pile of plans and will post them here with prices if anyone is interested. > > Buehler's BUTTON study plans $20 > Buehler's Jullian Adderly full sized plans $35 > Bolger's Birdwatcher $40 > Bolger's Black Skimmer $20 > Bolger's Micro Trawler $45 > Bolger's Sneakeasy $10 > Michalak's Vector $10 > Michalak's Viola 26 $10 > Michalak's Smoar $10 > Brett Swains 26' origami $50 > B&B yachts Core sound 17 $30 > Common sense designs Seadragon $35 > Benford's 26 Sailing Dory $10 > Buehlers PILGRIM 44 ??? > > As for the Pilgrim plans I am still trying to figure a fair price, email me if you are interested. > > garymaceoin@... > > > Thanks > | 21564|21548|2009-11-23 17:44:56|Gord Schnell|Re: Canadian Marine Stores|Thanks Brent. Your right and I have a Princess "living in my neighborhood". Gord On 23-Nov-09, at 12:42 PM, brentswain38 wrote: > Princess Auto has it cheap. > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Gord Schnell > wrote: > > > > Scott > > I found the large welding supply companies to offer the best per/ft. > > pricing for this kind of heavy flexible power cabling. You can buy > > various solder-on connectors. The solder keeps the connections > > corrosion free. > > Gord > > > > On 23-Nov-09, at 3:15 AM, scott wrote: > > > > > > > > I am rebuilding a battery cable system on my new boat. using a > > > central buss bar to handle hi amps for a 3000 watt inverter. I > > > needed about 100 feet of 4awg battery cable. and 6 feet of 4/0 > awg. > > > West marine 5+ dollars us a foot and 17 dollars a foot > > > respectively.. genuinedealz.com with free shipping was 1.55 and > 7.50 > > > a foot for good tinned marine cable. :) though I did get west > marine > > > to pricematch what they had in stock. According to them I got it > for > > > 1 penny under what it showed as their price in the system. > > > > > > I will say this.. any physical store is going to have to charge > more > > > to cover their overhead of a store front. Just a fact of life. I > try > > > to buy local as much as I can but I also pricematch anywhere I > can. > > > If it starts to add up to major dollar differences I go with the > > > online source. > > > > > > Other examples.. Xantrex 50 amp XC charger. west marine 735. > Online > > > prices were 499 to 519. west marine price matched this. > > > > > > I needed a specific horizontal mount propane tank to fit the new > > > boats propane locker. most vendors were selling it for 250 to 320 > > > dollars. uscarbs.com sold me one and shipped it to me for 144. > > > > > > Same thing for a propane control with solenoid and sensor. West > > > marine sells the system for 350 dollars... I found one on the > > > internet for 175 including shipping. > > > > > > I couldn't have afforded to get all this if I had to pay the > > > inflated prices. I figure I have saved over a thousand dollars 5 > or > > > 6 purchases.. I saved more than I spent. > > > > > > Do your research and it can pay off big time. The internet is your > > > friend. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 21565|21548|2009-11-25 00:35:23|scott|Re: Canadian Marine Stores|wish there was one near south carolina.. we suck for marine anything. no used places near, no good dumpsters to dive in, no decent scrap yards, just the internet :) scott --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "brentswain38" wrote: > > Princess Auto has it cheap. > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Gord Schnell wrote: > > > > Scott > > I found the large welding supply companies to offer the best per/ft. > > pricing for this kind of heavy flexible power cabling. You can buy > > various solder-on connectors. The solder keeps the connections > > corrosion free. > > Gord | 21566|21547|2009-11-25 08:30:32|Carl Anderson|SAILS|Howdy All & Happy Holidays! We just bought our sails from North. They were having a great sale on sails [teehee]. Our summer was spent searching for sails along the Vancouver Isle coast. We talked to Storch Nanaimo, & Leech McBride in Sidney. Lee is made in Taiwan or something & IF you have your measurements can deal DIRECTLY with them via Inet. That was the thing - we needed people to measure our boat [since it's homemade]. We found all places mentioned GREAT! Storch & L McBride, UK were very helpful. BUT with the North sale, we couldn't pass it up. & they are gonna fit our sails & take us out for sea trials with them this summer. Every time you get a measurement you learn something MORE about your boat - DO IT if you can! Also read books about SAIL POWER so you understand the physics. Things we learned [a couple]: MAIN: full battens may be a wonderful way to go. We had none on our original - so we're gonna try um. The furler: to go commercial or not. Practical Sailor had a great comparison of the BIG furler companies. They showed that each had drawbacks that were pretty significant for the cost. We ended up KEEPING our Evan Shaler furler because it's SIMPLE & bomber!!! On our sail, we went for the same white color UV cover... GADS - tons to say on this subject. We are very excited about of new suit. We got a Genaker, too. It wasn't cheap! BUT we'd gotten used sails & while ok, they weren't BUILT for MOM. We hope that these will be more efficient. Buying USED: we bought some in Sidney BC boater exchange... & on the internet. We got some terrible sails over the Inet, too. BEWARE! ok, it's all an adventure@! NOTHING has been easy on building. & the sails were another HUGE investment of time & research, then expenditure. Tahtah, kate of the SV-MOM.com markh wrote: > > > How about Lee Sails in Vancouver? Lee Sails.ca > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > | 21567|21567|2009-11-25 09:27:40|martin|Cost of all things Marine|Hi All; If you think it's tough building near the ocean try getting marine parts out here on the Prairie's. If you have a ski boat or small fishing boat there are suppliers but for larger ocean going vessels they just look at you as if you are out of your mind. What I did was hook up with a smaller chandelery(Waypoint Marine in Sydney B.C.) Mark the owner has lived boats his whole life. A couple of times I asked about advertised sale prices from the large stores and he would check his price and his regular shelf price was already lower. That coupled with a very good discout for our purchasing so much from him made it much easier for the building of Prairie Maid. Also his desire to make us happy with any purchase large and small is very refreshing compared to alot of the large operations where the people are just employees and don't have a stake in the bussiness. Check out the little guys. Same stuff but better service and price in our experience. Martin and Betty.| 21568|21567|2009-11-25 09:54:45|Doug Jackson|Re: Cost of all things Marine|Amen to that! We're in Tulsa, Oklahoma. If your not a bass boat or pontoon barge then your not going to find it in a store. Most of the locals don't even realize that out city is connected to the ocean by water. Yeah, is a 1000 miles, but but only 14 over land. :) Doug "I began life as a bad boy." --Simon Lake, father of the modern submarine Join "Bad Boy Submarines" at ArgonautJr.com ________________________________ From: martin To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, November 25, 2009 8:27:05 AM Subject: [origamiboats] Cost of all things Marine Hi All; If you think it's tough building near the ocean try getting marine parts out here on the Prairie's. If you have a ski boat or small fishing boat there are suppliers but for larger ocean going vessels they just look at you as if you are out of your mind. What I did was hook up with a smaller chandelery(Waypoint Marine in Sydney B.C.) Mark the owner has lived boats his whole life. A couple of times I asked about advertised sale prices from the large stores and he would check his price and his regular shelf price was already lower. That coupled with a very good discout for our purchasing so much from him made it much easier for the building of Prairie Maid. Also his desire to make us happy with any purchase large and small is very refreshing compared to alot of the large operations where the people are just employees and don't have a stake in the bussiness. Check out the little guys. Same stuff but better service and price in our experience. Martin and Betty.| 21569|21548|2009-11-25 17:17:01|theboilerflue|Re: Canadian Marine Stores|I'm surprised that there isn't more of a used marine market in South Carolina, I figured it'd be much like Florida - lot's on the scraped boat front but sorely lacking on the scrap metal end of things. I just talked to a friend who just put her boat in the water in Florida I was shocked when she told me she was tossing all the scrap teak she had collected over the last couple of years from boat yard dumpsters and such. Over in BC something like that is pretty rare but we do have a reasonably good selection of stainless scrap to make up for it. --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "scott" wrote: > > wish there was one near south carolina.. we suck for marine anything. no used places near, no good dumpsters to dive in, no decent scrap yards, just the internet :) > scott > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "brentswain38" wrote: > > > > Princess Auto has it cheap. > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Gord Schnell wrote: > > > > > > Scott > > > I found the large welding supply companies to offer the best per/ft. > > > pricing for this kind of heavy flexible power cabling. You can buy > > > various solder-on connectors. The solder keeps the connections > > > corrosion free. > > > Gord > | 21570|21570|2009-11-25 18:30:13|martin|Huricaine Damaged|With all the major storms hitting the south eastern U.S. what happens to all the damaged boats you see on the news clips? I would have thought there would be huge supplies of used boat parts in that part of the world. Martin.| 21571|21570|2009-11-25 19:43:14|brentswain38|Re: Huricaine Damaged|They used to have a Florida Boat Trader magazine in a Comox book store a few years ago . Dunno why, but there was a picture of a used boat gear place in Clearwater Florida which had acres of used and salavaged stuff off hurricane damaged boats , including racks of masts. It would be worth anyone from Noth Carolina's while to take a trip down there for holidays and do some scrounging. Go a little furher west and there may be a lot of scrap stainless in Texas from the oil industry. --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "martin" wrote: > > With all the major storms hitting the south eastern U.S. what happens to all the damaged boats you see on the news clips? I would have thought there would be huge supplies of used boat parts in that part of the world. Martin. > | 21572|21547|2009-11-25 19:46:02|brentswain38|Re: SAILS|Lee make great sails with good work, but use crappy Hong Kong materials. I've been told that if you specify good materials, like Ratsey Vectis and don't mind paying a little extra, they will use it. --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Carl Anderson wrote: > > Howdy All & Happy Holidays! > > We just bought our sails from North. They were having a great sale on > sails [teehee]. Our summer was spent searching for sails along the > Vancouver Isle coast. We talked to Storch Nanaimo, & Leech McBride in > Sidney. Lee is made in Taiwan or something & IF you have your > measurements can deal DIRECTLY with them via Inet. That was the thing - > we needed people to measure our boat [since it's homemade]. We found > all places mentioned GREAT! Storch & L McBride, UK were very helpful. > BUT with the North sale, we couldn't pass it up. & they are gonna fit > our sails & take us out for sea trials with them this summer. > > Every time you get a measurement you learn something MORE about your > boat - DO IT if you can! Also read books about SAIL POWER so you > understand the physics. > > Things we learned [a couple]: > MAIN: full battens may be a wonderful way to go. We had none on our > original - so we're gonna try um. > The furler: to go commercial or not. Practical Sailor had a great > comparison of the BIG furler companies. They showed that each had > drawbacks that were pretty significant for the cost. We ended up > KEEPING our Evan Shaler furler because it's SIMPLE & bomber!!! > On our sail, we went for the same white color UV cover... > > GADS - tons to say on this subject. We are very excited about of new > suit. We got a Genaker, too. It wasn't cheap! BUT we'd gotten used > sails & while ok, they weren't BUILT for MOM. We hope that these will > be more efficient. > > Buying USED: we bought some in Sidney BC boater exchange... & on the > internet. We got some terrible sails over the Inet, too. BEWARE! > > ok, it's all an adventure@! NOTHING has been easy on building. & the > sails were another HUGE investment of time & research, then expenditure. > > Tahtah, > > kate of the SV-MOM.com > > markh wrote: > > > > > > How about Lee Sails in Vancouver? Lee Sails.ca > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > | 21573|21547|2009-11-27 09:34:12|martin demers|Re: masthead sheave box|Hi Brent, I just wanted to know if you suggest to use stainless plate to make the sheave box.also in your book, in the sheave box section, you mention using half inch plate as spacers for the polypropylene sheaves, are those spacers going in the middle of the sheaves? also, when you sell plans, beside the hull does it includes more drawings and informations than in your book? Martin. To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com From: brentswain38@... Date: Thu, 26 Nov 2009 00:45:46 +0000 Subject: [origamiboats] Re: SAILS Lee make great sails with good work, but use crappy Hong Kong materials. I've been told that if you specify good materials, like Ratsey Vectis and don't mind paying a little extra, they will use it. --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Carl Anderson wrote: > > Howdy All & Happy Holidays! > > We just bought our sails from North. They were having a great sale on > sails [teehee]. Our summer was spent searching for sails along the > Vancouver Isle coast. We talked to Storch Nanaimo, & Leech McBride in > Sidney. Lee is made in Taiwan or something & IF you have your > measurements can deal DIRECTLY with them via Inet. That was the thing - > we needed people to measure our boat [since it's homemade]. We found > all places mentioned GREAT! Storch & L McBride, UK were very helpful. > BUT with the North sale, we couldn't pass it up. & they are gonna fit > our sails & take us out for sea trials with them this summer. > > Every time you get a measurement you learn something MORE about your > boat - DO IT if you can! Also read books about SAIL POWER so you > understand the physics. > > Things we learned [a couple]: > MAIN: full battens may be a wonderful way to go. We had none on our > original - so we're gonna try um. > The furler: to go commercial or not. Practical Sailor had a great > comparison of the BIG furler companies. They showed that each had > drawbacks that were pretty significant for the cost. We ended up > KEEPING our Evan Shaler furler because it's SIMPLE & bomber!!! > On our sail, we went for the same white color UV cover... > > GADS - tons to say on this subject. We are very excited about of new > suit. We got a Genaker, too. It wasn't cheap! BUT we'd gotten used > sails & while ok, they weren't BUILT for MOM. We hope that these will > be more efficient. > > Buying USED: we bought some in Sidney BC boater exchange... & on the > internet. We got some terrible sails over the Inet, too. BEWARE! > > ok, it's all an adventure@! NOTHING has been easy on building. & the > sails were another HUGE investment of time & research, then expenditure. > > Tahtah, > > kate of the SV-MOM.com > > markh wrote: > > > > > > How about Lee Sails in Vancouver? Lee Sails.ca > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live : vos amis re�oivent vos nouveaut�s Facebook, Twitter et MySpace lorsqu'ils vous envoient un message �lectronique. http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9691827 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 21574|21547|2009-11-27 16:14:39|brentswain38|Re: masthead sheave box|The half inch plate is the same thickness as the sheaves. When you put the half inch plate in it keeps the sheave box the same width as the sheaves, during welding.Then when you pound the half inch plates out after welding, the sheaves fit well. Plans include hull plate layouts, hull lines, deck plate layout, cabin , cockpit, wheelhouse, deck layout ,all detail , self steering, hatches, interior layout, mast, rigging , sails, tankage, ballast, rudder , etc ,etc, everything you need to finish the boat. Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, martin demers wrote: > > > > Hi Brent, > I just wanted to know if you suggest to use stainless plate to make the sheave box.also in your book, in the sheave box section, you mention using half inch plate as spacers for the polypropylene sheaves, are those spacers going in the middle of the sheaves? > also, when you sell plans, beside the hull does it includes more drawings and informations than in your book? > > Martin. > To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > From: brentswain38@... > Date: Thu, 26 Nov 2009 00:45:46 +0000 > Subject: [origamiboats] Re: SAILS > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lee make great sails with good work, but use crappy Hong Kong materials. I've been told that if you specify good materials, like Ratsey Vectis and don't mind paying a little extra, they will use it. > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Carl Anderson wrote: > > > > > > Howdy All & Happy Holidays! > > > > > > We just bought our sails from North. They were having a great sale on > > > sails [teehee]. Our summer was spent searching for sails along the > > > Vancouver Isle coast. We talked to Storch Nanaimo, & Leech McBride in > > > Sidney. Lee is made in Taiwan or something & IF you have your > > > measurements can deal DIRECTLY with them via Inet. That was the thing - > > > we needed people to measure our boat [since it's homemade]. We found > > > all places mentioned GREAT! Storch & L McBride, UK were very helpful. > > > BUT with the North sale, we couldn't pass it up. & they are gonna fit > > > our sails & take us out for sea trials with them this summer. > > > > > > Every time you get a measurement you learn something MORE about your > > > boat - DO IT if you can! Also read books about SAIL POWER so you > > > understand the physics. > > > > > > Things we learned [a couple]: > > > MAIN: full battens may be a wonderful way to go. We had none on our > > > original - so we're gonna try um. > > > The furler: to go commercial or not. Practical Sailor had a great > > > comparison of the BIG furler companies. They showed that each had > > > drawbacks that were pretty significant for the cost. We ended up > > > KEEPING our Evan Shaler furler because it's SIMPLE & bomber!!! > > > On our sail, we went for the same white color UV cover... > > > > > > GADS - tons to say on this subject. We are very excited about of new > > > suit. We got a Genaker, too. It wasn't cheap! BUT we'd gotten used > > > sails & while ok, they weren't BUILT for MOM. We hope that these will > > > be more efficient. > > > > > > Buying USED: we bought some in Sidney BC boater exchange... & on the > > > internet. We got some terrible sails over the Inet, too. BEWARE! > > > > > > ok, it's all an adventure@! NOTHING has been easy on building. & the > > > sails were another HUGE investment of time & research, then expenditure. > > > > > > Tahtah, > > > > > > kate of the SV-MOM.com > > > > > > markh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > How about Lee Sails in Vancouver? Lee Sails.ca > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Windows Live : vos amis reçoivent vos nouveautés Facebook, Twitter et MySpace lorsqu'ils vous envoient un message électronique. > http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9691827 > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > | 21575|16351|2009-11-27 20:15:22|brentswain38|Re: Reflectors|On the BC coast you'll find reflectors at the entrance to Secret cove, Squitty Bay, Bull Pass, Long Bay and Home Bay on Jedediah Island, Scotty Bay, Von Donup Inlet, the west entrance to Higgins Pass on Kipp Island, and the south side of the entrance to Helmken inlet. Hopefully more to come. --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "brentswain38" wrote: > > When one is trying to return to a dark anchorage on a rainy night, a small reflector cemented into a rock near the entrance is a godsend , by giving one a definite reference point. They can be lined up to give one leading marks into a safe channel, or mark both sides of the chanel.I've found they make doubtful entrances at night extremely easy to enter, with confidence. > Scrapyards often have old traffic signs which are coated with reflector material, which will last decades. You can wash the writing of with laquer thinner , without affecting the reflector material. The aluminium ones can easily be cut up with a jigsaw or a table saw. > Galv bolts on them, above the spray line, last for decades, stainless carriage bolts last a lifetime. > No need to wait for Big Brother to put out aids to navigation( while filling his pockets at our expense on his new found excuse) We can do it for ourselves and make him less relevant. . > Put a few on your boat and anyone entering your anchorage at night , using aspotlight will see your boat light up like an Xmas tree. > | 21576|21504|2009-11-27 20:17:21|brentswain38|Re: Current metal costs.|Brian Are you in the Comox Valley yet? I am, till next week. Drop by or send me an email. Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "BrianC" wrote: > > Checked on current metal costs for the 31 footer from Russel metals in Cambell River. > Zinc primed plate for the sides and deck and bar stock. > 5500 Can for everything execpt the stainless ,I already have all my stainless components built. > Brian > | 21577|21504|2009-11-27 23:01:42|theboilerflue|Re: Current metal costs.|and drop by my boat at the slough if you like as well I'm planning on being around all weekend --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "brentswain38" wrote: > > Brian > Are you in the Comox Valley yet? I am, till next week. Drop by or send me an email. > Brent > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "BrianC" wrote: > > > > Checked on current metal costs for the 31 footer from Russel metals in Cambell River. > > Zinc primed plate for the sides and deck and bar stock. > > 5500 Can for everything execpt the stainless ,I already have all my stainless components built. > > Brian > > > | 21578|21578|2009-11-27 23:06:04|Gary H. Lucas|Gas welding|I just ran across a two part article on gas welding, brazing and soldering that is really excellent. I highly recommend those of you here building your own boat get a copy of the September/October and November/December issue of The Home Shop Machinist magazine. Tremendously useful! Gary H. Lucas| 21579|21504|2009-11-28 08:07:04|BrianC|Re: Current metal costs.|Hi Brent Still on the east coast, The house is for sale and we are waiting for the right person to come along and scoop it up. Until then we are stuck here working on the ant nest with all the other drones. We have been shopping north of Comox as it seems thats the best housing for your money out there but time will tell. Keeping my fingers crossed that metal prices will stay low until I get out there and have a place for it to be dropped off. Thanks for the note Where are you off to ? Staying on the coast or are you going further afeild. --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "brentswain38" wrote: > > Brian > Are you in the Comox Valley yet? I am, till next week. Drop by or send me an email. > Brent > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "BrianC" wrote: > > > > Checked on current metal costs for the 31 footer from Russel metals in Cambell River. > > Zinc primed plate for the sides and deck and bar stock. > > 5500 Can for everything execpt the stainless ,I already have all my stainless components built. > > Brian > > > | 21580|21580|2009-11-28 10:06:49|martin|trim tab fabrication|Hi All quick question on the tab. Is it best constructed the same as I did with the rudder by hammering the pipe through the already joined sheets so that symetry is maintained? Martin (Prairie Maid)| 21581|21504|2009-11-28 18:30:59|brentswain38|Re: Current metal costs.|I'm on the BC coast until at least next september. Let me know when you get to the coast. --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "BrianC" wrote: > > Hi Brent > Still on the east coast, The house is for sale and we are waiting for the right person to come along and scoop it up. Until then we are stuck here working on the ant nest with all the other drones. We have been shopping north of Comox as it seems thats the best housing for your money out there but time will tell. Keeping my fingers crossed that metal prices will stay low until I get out there and have a place for it to be dropped off. > Thanks for the note > Where are you off to ? Staying on the coast or are you going further afeild. > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "brentswain38" wrote: > > > > Brian > > Are you in the Comox Valley yet? I am, till next week. Drop by or send me an email. > > Brent > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "BrianC" wrote: > > > > > > Checked on current metal costs for the 31 footer from Russel metals in Cambell River. > > > Zinc primed plate for the sides and deck and bar stock. > > > 5500 Can for everything execpt the stainless ,I already have all my stainless components built. > > > Brian > > > > > > | 21582|21580|2009-11-28 18:38:52|brentswain38|Re: trim tab fabrication|No. With such light plate , if you hammer the pipe thru, you will get a hard crease where the pipe is. Best put a good, well past 90 degree bend along the 16 guage plate where the leading edge is, then grind both sides of the bend equal. Then pull the trailing edges together using vise grips and C clamps. Set the pipe about a half inch back from the leading edge , burn thru the 16 guage with the stinger and put a weld connecting the pipe to the plate. If you use quarter inch tacks, you can staighten up the trailing edge by lightly hammering the tacks one way or the other until it is symetrical and straight , before full welding .Bend a welding rod to the curve as a guage to make both sides symetrical, before full welding. --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "martin" wrote: > > Hi All quick question on the tab. Is it best constructed the same as I did with the rudder by hammering the pipe through the already joined sheets so that symetry is maintained? > Martin (Prairie Maid) > | 21583|21583|2009-11-28 18:57:38|martin|Trim tab Fab.|Thanks Brent; I hope to go into Edmonton on Mon. am. and see if I can pick up enough sheet to start the trim tab. Martin.| 21584|21584|2009-11-28 19:08:52|wild_explorer|USCG Boatbuilder's Handbook|There is Boatbuilder's Handbook where US Coast Guards put some information together for boat builders to comply with US boat's safety regulations. It could be downloaded here: http://www.uscgboating.org/regulations/boatbuilder_s_handbook/downloads.aspx Did anybody followed it during boat building process or boat registration by USCG? Does the boat built in Canada need to be in compliance with this handbook if registered in USA?| 21585|21584|2009-11-29 06:46:09|gcode fi (hanermo)|Re: USCG Boatbuilder's Handbook|Caution may be in order. It may well be impossible to register a boat built in canada, as a "US documented vessel". The issue is not clear due to various forms of registration and documentation. US "documented vessels" are usually commercial. A long list of stringent requirements, lots of paperwork. May be impossible, or very expensive. A US "documented vessel", documented according to the standards of the USCG, is a commercial craft. These must, according to the Jones ACT, be built in the US. Registered vessels are different, and there is different types of registration, state and federal. You can register any vessel you own, in the US. Sometimes it is necessary, depending on where you live, and size of boat, etc. Taxes apply. Just thought you may want to take this into account. IF for example, you plan to use the boat for commercial activities, it may be an absolute requirement that it be built in the USA. You might then, for example, need to bring a hull into the US, to "build" or finish it there. I am not sure if this is easy, difficult or impossible, no idea. If you go this route, it might be a good idea to check with your local customs and tax office first. Also, in most cases, implementation and how they look at it very a lot. One office may say one thing, and another another thing. In general, once you have it approved in any one office/part, it´s valid, even if another office would not have approved it. The actual requirements regarding safety, re: what and how the boat is built, dont even enter into it at that time, they are a completely separate issue. In general, these requirements pertain to safety, based on international SOLAS standards, and all compliant solutions are valid. For example, a light may be required to be USCG certified. A RINA- certified (or EU) light is just as good, if you bought the boat internationally. If you "built it" in the states, the local enforcer may not accept the international light- although they may be required to. Certainly any boat built in say canada, certified there, inspected, can be sailed anywhere including the US. Registration is another matter, as is resale. I have dealt with about 50 vehicles and boats, internationally, so I have gotten some practice at the issues, and thus recommend checking, especially because there are lots of regs and lots of interpretations. In my experience, everything is possible, in the end, except commercial boats/vehicles. These may need to be treated differently, and are certainly a lot more expensive and harder. wild_explorer wrote: > > > There is Boatbuilder's Handbook where US Coast Guards put some > information together for boat builders to comply with US boat's safety > regulations. > > It could be downloaded here: > > http://www.uscgboating.org/regulations/boatbuilder_s_handbook/downloads.aspx > > > Did anybody followed it during boat building process or boat > registration by USCG? > > Does the boat built in Canada need to be in compliance with this > handbook if registered in USA? > | 21586|21586|2009-11-29 12:28:03|maxcamirand|Looking for NW coast boatyard|Hi group, I'm buying a boat in Seattle. I need to put it on the hard until spring in order to do some renovations. Since the local yard here (at Shilshole) is prohibitively expensive ($630/month to have the boat on the hard), I'm looking to get the boat trucked to another yard near here. Then, when I finish the renovations, I'll get it put back into the water and sail away. Criteria for the yard: -Lift capable of putting my boat directly back into the water, without trucking it. The boat is 42 ft and approx 20 000 lbs. -Near as possible to Seattle. Can be in Canada. -Electrical power -Available showers and washrooms would be great I've already gotten a recommendation for South Park boat yard, which charges about 400 a month. If anyone has a recommendation for a transport company, I would appreciate it as well! Best regards, Maxime Camirand| 21587|21587|2009-11-29 14:34:10|surfingak|anyone know the 'J' measurement for a 40 foot aluminum Brent Swain|| 21588|21584|2009-11-29 16:00:40|theboilerflue|Re: USCG Boatbuilder's Handbook|I wonder what there would be stopping one from from registering one's boat as being built in Canada then also registering it as being built in the states as well how would they know the difference. --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "gcode fi (hanermo)" wrote: > > Caution may be in order. > It may well be impossible to register a boat built in canada, as a "US > documented vessel". > > The issue is not clear due to various forms of registration and > documentation. > > US "documented vessels" are usually commercial. > A long list of stringent requirements, lots of paperwork. May be > impossible, or very expensive. > A US "documented vessel", documented according to the standards of the > USCG, is a commercial craft. > These must, according to the Jones ACT, be built in the US. > > Registered vessels are different, and there is different types of > registration, state and federal. > You can register any vessel you own, in the US. Sometimes it is > necessary, depending on where you live, and size of boat, etc. Taxes apply. > > Just thought you may want to take this into account. > IF for example, you plan to use the boat for commercial activities, it > may be an absolute requirement that it be built in the USA. > You might then, for example, need to bring a hull into the US, to > "build" or finish it there. > I am not sure if this is easy, difficult or impossible, no idea. > > If you go this route, it might be a good idea to check with your local > customs and tax office first. > Also, in most cases, implementation and how they look at it very a lot. > One office may say one thing, and another another thing. In general, > once you have it approved in any one office/part, it´s valid, even if > another office would not have approved it. > > The actual requirements regarding safety, re: what and how the boat is > built, dont even enter into it at that time, they are a completely > separate issue. > In general, these requirements pertain to safety, based on international > SOLAS standards, and all compliant solutions are valid. > For example, a light may be required to be USCG certified. > A RINA- certified (or EU) light is just as good, if you bought the boat > internationally. If you "built it" in the states, the local enforcer may > not accept the international light- although they may be required to. > > Certainly any boat built in say canada, certified there, inspected, can > be sailed anywhere including the US. > Registration is another matter, as is resale. > I have dealt with about 50 vehicles and boats, internationally, so I > have gotten some practice at the issues, and thus recommend checking, > especially because there are lots of regs and lots of interpretations. > In my experience, everything is possible, in the end, except commercial > boats/vehicles. These may need to be treated differently, and are > certainly a lot more expensive and harder. > > > wild_explorer wrote: > > > > > > There is Boatbuilder's Handbook where US Coast Guards put some > > information together for boat builders to comply with US boat's safety > > regulations. > > > > It could be downloaded here: > > > > http://www.uscgboating.org/regulations/boatbuilder_s_handbook/downloads.aspx > > > > > > Did anybody followed it during boat building process or boat > > registration by USCG? > > > > Does the boat built in Canada need to be in compliance with this > > handbook if registered in USA? > > > | 21589|21584|2009-11-29 17:11:50|Tom Mann|Re: USCG Boatbuilder's Handbook|One problem there would be hull ID#, Here in the states home built the DMV issues the hull ID. I am pretty sure you would have some major problems with 2 sets of hull numbers. Tom On Sun, Nov 29, 2009 at 12:57 PM, theboilerflue wrote: > I wonder what there would be stopping one from from registering one's boat > as being built in Canada then also registering it as being built in the > states as well how would they know the difference. > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "gcode fi (hanermo)" > wrote: > > > > Caution may be in order. > > It may well be impossible to register a boat built in canada, as a "US > > documented vessel". > > > > The issue is not clear due to various forms of registration and > > documentation. > > > > US "documented vessels" are usually commercial. > > A long list of stringent requirements, lots of paperwork. May be > > impossible, or very expensive. > > A US "documented vessel", documented according to the standards of the > > USCG, is a commercial craft. > > These must, according to the Jones ACT, be built in the US. > > > > Registered vessels are different, and there is different types of > > registration, state and federal. > > You can register any vessel you own, in the US. Sometimes it is > > necessary, depending on where you live, and size of boat, etc. Taxes > apply. > > > > Just thought you may want to take this into account. > > IF for example, you plan to use the boat for commercial activities, it > > may be an absolute requirement that it be built in the USA. > > You might then, for example, need to bring a hull into the US, to > > "build" or finish it there. > > I am not sure if this is easy, difficult or impossible, no idea. > > > > If you go this route, it might be a good idea to check with your local > > customs and tax office first. > > Also, in most cases, implementation and how they look at it very a lot. > > One office may say one thing, and another another thing. In general, > > once you have it approved in any one office/part, it´s valid, even if > > another office would not have approved it. > > > > The actual requirements regarding safety, re: what and how the boat is > > built, dont even enter into it at that time, they are a completely > > separate issue. > > In general, these requirements pertain to safety, based on international > > SOLAS standards, and all compliant solutions are valid. > > For example, a light may be required to be USCG certified. > > A RINA- certified (or EU) light is just as good, if you bought the boat > > internationally. If you "built it" in the states, the local enforcer may > > not accept the international light- although they may be required to. > > > > Certainly any boat built in say canada, certified there, inspected, can > > be sailed anywhere including the US. > > Registration is another matter, as is resale. > > I have dealt with about 50 vehicles and boats, internationally, so I > > have gotten some practice at the issues, and thus recommend checking, > > especially because there are lots of regs and lots of interpretations. > > In my experience, everything is possible, in the end, except commercial > > boats/vehicles. These may need to be treated differently, and are > > certainly a lot more expensive and harder. > > > > > > wild_explorer wrote: > > > > > > > > > There is Boatbuilder's Handbook where US Coast Guards put some > > > information together for boat builders to comply with US boat's safety > > > regulations. > > > > > > It could be downloaded here: > > > > > > > http://www.uscgboating.org/regulations/boatbuilder_s_handbook/downloads.aspx > > > < > http://www.uscgboating.org/regulations/boatbuilder_s_handbook/downloads.aspx > > > > > > > > Did anybody followed it during boat building process or boat > > > registration by USCG? > > > > > > Does the boat built in Canada need to be in compliance with this > > > handbook if registered in USA? > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.comYahoo! Groups Links > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 21590|21584|2009-11-29 17:14:20|wild_explorer|Re: USCG Boatbuilder's Handbook|Paperwork I guess, if we are talking about USCG certification. If it was built completely in Canada it will have Canadian building certificate. If it is built/finished in USA, it should be build by USCG certified boat builder OR plans should be approved by USCG for home builder (not sure about this part - somebody help me). I suspect, USCG will ask for complete package of paperwork. If you bring hull from Canada to US, and finish it in US, you live trace in Custom database anyway. It looks like, you can NOT register boat by USCG in USA if you are not American citizen (for personal registration). If it was completely built in Canada you might NOT be able to register it by USCG if it does NOT meet USCG requirements. But will be able to register it by state DMV. As it was mentioned by "gcode fi (hanermo)" there is the difference in registration for recreational and business vessels. US regulations become more strict, that probably why some small boat builders goes out of business. Boat's plans should be in compliance with US regulations too. Did anybody had approved Brent's plans by USCG before building? I believe, there is some time frame (18mo??? -I do not remember at this moment) after approval of the plans by USCG and the final date of construction and certification. May be it would be easier/simpler to register it somewhere else (not in USA)? --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "theboilerflue" wrote: > > I wonder what there would be stopping one from from registering one's boat as being built in Canada then also registering it as being built in the states as well how would they know the difference. > | 21591|21584|2009-11-29 18:13:39|Tom Mann|Re: USCG Boatbuilder's Handbook|Here in California for a home built sailboat to get state registration is no problem. Now if you go out on the water and coast guard decides to check you out then you had better be in compliance with things like life jackets,nav lights, fire extinguisher ,fuel system ect. The only questions on the boat itself was length, materal used and if it was power or sail On Sun, Nov 29, 2009 at 2:14 PM, wild_explorer wrote: > Paperwork I guess, if we are talking about USCG certification. If it was > built completely in Canada it will have Canadian building certificate. > > If it is built/finished in USA, it should be build by USCG certified boat > builder OR plans should be approved by USCG for home builder (not sure about > this part - somebody help me). > > I suspect, USCG will ask for complete package of paperwork. If you bring > hull from Canada to US, and finish it in US, you live trace in Custom > database anyway. > > It looks like, you can NOT register boat by USCG in USA if you are not > American citizen (for personal registration). > > If it was completely built in Canada you might NOT be able to register it > by USCG if it does NOT meet USCG requirements. But will be able to register > it by state DMV. > > As it was mentioned by "gcode fi (hanermo)" there is the difference in > registration for recreational and business vessels. > > US regulations become more strict, that probably why some small boat > builders goes out of business. Boat's plans should be in compliance with US > regulations too. > > Did anybody had approved Brent's plans by USCG before building? > > I believe, there is some time frame (18mo??? -I do not remember at this > moment) after approval of the plans by USCG and the final date of > construction and certification. > > May be it would be easier/simpler to register it somewhere else (not in > USA)? > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "theboilerflue" wrote: > > > > I wonder what there would be stopping one from from registering one's > boat as being built in Canada then also registering it as being built in the > states as well how would they know the difference. > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.comYahoo! Groups Links > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 21592|21584|2009-11-29 18:29:48|Ben Okopnik|Re: USCG Boatbuilder's Handbook|On Sun, Nov 29, 2009 at 10:14:16PM -0000, wild_explorer wrote: > > If it is built/finished in USA, it should be build by USCG certified > boat builder OR plans should be approved by USCG for home builder (not > sure about this part - somebody help me). There is no such requrement. I know a lot of people who have built everything from dinghies to 40'+ boats, and none of them ever registered a single thing with the USCG while building. I've spoken to many of them about the registration process, and not a single one of them had a problem (although some had to talk to the DMV branch manager because the desk clerk had no idea of how to register a home-built vessel.) This is also backed by my experience of home-built cars: it can be a minor hassle if you run into an ignorant clerk, but I've never heard of anyone actually getting rejected. One car builder thought that he needed paperwork, so he brought in all his religiously-collected bills for materials... no one ever asked him for anything of the sort. > I suspect, USCG will ask for complete package of paperwork. If you > bring hull from Canada to US, and finish it in US, you live trace in > Custom database anyway. What kind of a trace would that be, I wonder? How would they recognize that hull once it's had a deck, masts, etc. put on it, and has been painted? > It looks like, you can NOT register boat by USCG in USA if you are not > American citizen (for personal registration). I'm afraid you're incorrect. A quick Google search for the requirements here in the state of North Carolina reveals that resident alien ID is one of the valid forms of ID for vessel registration. http://www.ncfisheries.net/download/license/CFVR.pdf Florida DMV discusses what you need to do while changing your vessel's classification even if you're a *non-resident* alien: http://www.flhsmv.gov/dmv/forms/BTR/87015.pdf So, both of these are obviously valid categories of registrants. You may be thinking of Federal vessel documentation, which does require that the vessel a) be owned by a US citizen (46 U.S.C. 12102; 46 CFR Subpart 67.03), b) be of at least 5 net tons; and c) must not not registered under the laws of a foreign country. Please note that it does *not* specify where the vessel must be built. -- OKOPNIK CONSULTING Custom Computing Solutions For Your Business Expert-led Training | Dynamic, vital websites | Custom programming 443-250-7895 http://okopnik.com| 21593|21584|2009-11-29 19:57:51|wild_explorer|Re: USCG Boatbuilder's Handbook|I am more interested to hear about USCG (federal) registration - which is accepted by ANY state and foreign countries. Registration in one state will allow to operate vessel in another state only for a limited period of time (60-120 days/year or so, depending on the state). As I understand, you cannot use state registered vessel outside USA waters (I might be wrong). Can you visit foreign country on state registered vessel? Of cause, you probably can register (with some effort) anything floats in DMV. Information about state vessel registration is helpful for someone too. Especially, how much it cost in different states (if there sale taxes, fees, etc).| 21594|21584|2009-11-29 20:10:27|Ben Okopnik|Re: USCG Boatbuilder's Handbook|On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 12:57:45AM -0000, wild_explorer wrote: > I am more interested to hear about USCG (federal) registration - which > is accepted by ANY state and foreign countries. You're talking about documentation. I documented my previous boat, and I assure you that documentation is _not_ accepted by states in lieu of registration. As to foreign countries, they simply don't care: either registration or documentation is fine (those few that do care, e.g., the BVIs, are a bit put off by documentation since it's not the usual paperwork that they see day in and day out.) > As I understand, you cannot use state registered vessel outside USA > waters (I might be wrong). Pretty much all US pleasure boats are state-registered, including those that cruise outside the US. Trust me on this one: there's no measurable benefit to documenting your vessel, and quite a bit of hassle. > Can you visit foreign country on state registered vessel? Yes. -- OKOPNIK CONSULTING Custom Computing Solutions For Your Business Expert-led Training | Dynamic, vital websites | Custom programming 443-250-7895 http://okopnik.com| 21595|21584|2009-11-29 20:23:47|wild_explorer|Re: USCG Boatbuilder's Handbook|> What kind of a trace would that be, I wonder? How would they recognize > that hull once it's had a deck, masts, etc. put on it, and has been > painted? If you bring the boat as a vessel and not as scrap metal: Vessel/hull should have ID # (you need one for US registration anyway), US custom will ask you where it was built - to calculate import fee to charge you. I do not know all the process and what documentation they will ask to prove it (I need to do more research). But I am sure, you will not be able to bring boat through US custom undocumented.| 21596|21584|2009-11-29 20:31:28|wild_explorer|Re: USCG Boatbuilder's Handbook|Thanks! Less to worry about. May be USCG registration applies only for boat used for business and not for pleasure boats... > Pretty much all US pleasure boats are state-registered, including those > that cruise outside the US. Trust me on this one: there's no measurable > benefit to documenting your vessel, and quite a bit of hassle. > > > Can you visit foreign country on state registered vessel? > > Yes. | 21597|21584|2009-11-29 20:32:58|Alan H. Boucher|Re: USCG Boatbuilder's Handbook|The primary advantage of documentation is that it gives you a better title documentation than is available from most state registrations. There are minimum size limitations to the vessels that can be documented. It involves a somewhat obtuse calculation of the cargo capacity which can be difficult to calculate. Ben Okopnik wrote: > > On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 12:57:45AM -0000, wild_explorer wrote: > > I am more interested to hear about USCG (federal) registration - which > > is accepted by ANY state and foreign countries. > > You're talking about documentation. I documented my previous boat, and I > assure you that documentation is _not_ accepted by states in lieu of > registration. As to foreign countries, they simply don't care: either > registration or documentation is fine (those few that do care, e.g., the > BVIs, are a bit put off by documentation since it's not the usual > paperwork that they see day in and day out.) > > > As I understand, you cannot use state registered vessel outside USA > > waters (I might be wrong). > > Pretty much all US pleasure boats are state-registered, including those > that cruise outside the US. Trust me on this one: there's no measurable > benefit to documenting your vessel, and quite a bit of hassle. > > > Can you visit foreign country on state registered vessel? > > Yes. > > > -- > OKOPNIK CONSULTING > Custom Computing Solutions For Your Business > Expert-led Training | Dynamic, vital websites | Custom programming > 443-250-7895 http://okopnik.com > > | 21598|21584|2009-11-29 22:48:24|wild_explorer|Re: USGS certification (was: USCG Boatbuilder's Handbook)|I have noticed, there are less problems with USCG registered vessel for buyer and some benefits for seller. It is not so easy to cover some boats which were damaged, flooded, etc. when boat is USCG registered (vessel in federal database). It is much easier to call/e-mail USCG and verify vessel history, than trying to trace all state registrations for the same vessel. In case of state registered boat, some people just bring it to another state and got clear title. There is an interesting comment on USCG certification here: http://www.thomasecolvin.com/certification.htm --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Alan H. Boucher" wrote: > > The primary advantage of documentation is that it gives you a better > title documentation than is available from most state registrations. | 21599|21587|2009-11-30 00:51:21|Gord Schnell|Re: anyone know the 'J' measurement for a 40 foot aluminum Brent Swa|The "J" measurement for a BS40 is 18' 2". Gord On 29-Nov-09, at 11:31 AM, surfingak wrote: > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 21600|21584|2009-11-30 08:43:29|Ben Okopnik|Re: USGS certification (was: USCG Boatbuilder's Handbook)|On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 03:46:24AM -0000, wild_explorer wrote: > I have noticed, there are less problems with USCG registered vessel > for buyer and some benefits for seller. It is not so easy to cover > some boats which were damaged, flooded, etc. when boat is USCG > registered (vessel in federal database). It is much easier to > call/e-mail USCG and verify vessel history, than trying to trace all > state registrations for the same vessel. That sounds like a benefit for the buyer, but an "anti-benefit" to the seller - that is, the person who would be paying the cost and going through the effort of documentation. In other words, it would only be meaningful in cases where the owner has to do the documentation anyway (e.g., for commercial purposes) and will just have to put up with all that history, etc. being recorded. In all other situations - i.e., where documentation is not required of you - this would be yet another detriment to doing it. > In case of state registered boat, some people just bring it to another > state and got clear title. [sigh] I - and I'm sure, other people here - would appreciate it if you would stop formulating these wild, baseless guesses as assertions. If you're trying to get educated about it, just ask. The above is completely independent of any issue of registration or documentation. There are thousands of "hurricaned" boats in Florida and Texas that have been rehabbed and are being sold right in the state where they were sunk - and you'd have no clue about their former status unless you were quite good at surveying and knew what to look for. As far as I know, there's no (enforcible) legal requirement for a private seller to be honest or forthright about the previous condition of their boat. "Caveat emptor" (let the buyer beware) has been the case as long as there have been buyers and sellers. -- OKOPNIK CONSULTING Custom Computing Solutions For Your Business Expert-led Training | Dynamic, vital websites | Custom programming 443-250-7895 http://okopnik.com| 21601|21584|2009-11-30 08:54:55|Carl Anderson|Re: USCG Boatbuilder's Handbook|Nice thing about building a boat in Canada and then bringing it back to the USA is a little thing called NAFTA. NAFTA = no import duty! (my processing fee was $19 from USA customs) A boat certainly does not need to be "documented" to bring through USA customs. A state registration is more than sufficient. Since I really DID NOT want to have any Canadian "hull numbers" on my boat, I registered it in Utah as a homebuilt sailboat and received a Utah homebuilt HIN for the state registration process. Funniest thing was when I returned to Canada with the boat, the customs officer commented "that boat has never been in Canada before". Carl sv-mom.com wild_explorer wrote: > > > > What kind of a trace would that be, I wonder? How would they recognize > > that hull once it's had a deck, masts, etc. put on it, and has been > > painted? > > If you bring the boat as a vessel and not as scrap metal: Vessel/hull > should have ID # (you need one for US registration anyway), US custom > will ask you where it was built - to calculate import fee to charge you. > I do not know all the process and what documentation they will ask to > prove it (I need to do more research). But I am sure, you will not be > able to bring boat through US custom undocumented. > | 21602|21584|2009-11-30 12:38:24|wild_explorer|Re: USGS certification (was: USCG Boatbuilder's Handbook)|Sorry to all for misinformation. This article was about cars: http://www.dmv.org/tx-texas/salvaged-vehicles.php Damage %% varies state by state. https://www.vehicleinfo.com/articles.php?id=26 What is an average damage in US for the boat to get salvage title? 70-85%? > [sigh] I - and I'm sure, other people here - would appreciate it if you > would stop formulating these wild, baseless guesses as assertions. If > you're trying to get educated about it, just ask. The above is > completely independent of any issue of registration or documentation. > There are thousands of "hurricaned" boats in Florida and Texas that have > been rehabbed and are being sold right in the state where they were sunk > - and you'd have no clue about their former status unless you were quite > good at surveying and knew what to look for. | 21603|21586|2009-11-30 15:19:03|paull01|Re: Looking for NW coast boatyard|Have you called South Park? I think Rich or Guy could transport it. If you're talking about the Gazelle that was for sale at Shilshole, you could just motor her up the Duwamish. Paul Seattle --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "maxcamirand" wrote: > > Hi group, > > I'm buying a boat in Seattle. I need to put it on the hard until > spring in order to do some renovations. Since the local yard here (at > Shilshole) is prohibitively expensive ($630/month to have the boat on > the hard), I'm looking to get the boat trucked to another yard near > here. Then, when I finish the renovations, I'll get it put back into > the water and sail away. > > Criteria for the yard: > -Lift capable of putting my boat directly back into the water, without > trucking it. The boat is 42 ft and approx 20 000 lbs. > -Near as possible to Seattle. Can be in Canada. > -Electrical power > -Available showers and washrooms would be great > > I've already gotten a recommendation for South Park boat yard, which charges about 400 a month. > > If anyone has a recommendation for a transport company, I would > appreciate it as well! > > Best regards, > Maxime Camirand > | 21604|21584|2009-11-30 15:26:26|brentswain38|Re: USGS certification (was: USCG Boatbuilder's Handbook)|I've heard of US boats getting into trouble in French territories like Martinique with state registry, because it was not Federal. No problem with K numbers because it is federal. Funny, the first time I sailed thru Tahiti , and New Caledonia, I had no registration of any kind, no problem. The Bureuacrats have gained far more power than they can ever be trusted with, since. --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Ben Okopnik wrote: > > On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 03:46:24AM -0000, wild_explorer wrote: > > I have noticed, there are less problems with USCG registered vessel > > for buyer and some benefits for seller. It is not so easy to cover > > some boats which were damaged, flooded, etc. when boat is USCG > > registered (vessel in federal database). It is much easier to > > call/e-mail USCG and verify vessel history, than trying to trace all > > state registrations for the same vessel. > > That sounds like a benefit for the buyer, but an "anti-benefit" to the > seller - that is, the person who would be paying the cost and going > through the effort of documentation. In other words, it would only be > meaningful in cases where the owner has to do the documentation anyway > (e.g., for commercial purposes) and will just have to put up with all > that history, etc. being recorded. In all other situations - i.e., where > documentation is not required of you - this would be yet another > detriment to doing it. > > > In case of state registered boat, some people just bring it to another > > state and got clear title. > > [sigh] I - and I'm sure, other people here - would appreciate it if you > would stop formulating these wild, baseless guesses as assertions. If > you're trying to get educated about it, just ask. The above is > completely independent of any issue of registration or documentation. > There are thousands of "hurricaned" boats in Florida and Texas that have > been rehabbed and are being sold right in the state where they were sunk > - and you'd have no clue about their former status unless you were quite > good at surveying and knew what to look for. > > As far as I know, there's no (enforcible) legal requirement for a > private seller to be honest or forthright about the previous condition > of their boat. "Caveat emptor" (let the buyer beware) has been the case > as long as there have been buyers and sellers. > > > -- > OKOPNIK CONSULTING > Custom Computing Solutions For Your Business > Expert-led Training | Dynamic, vital websites | Custom programming > 443-250-7895 http://okopnik.com > | 21605|21584|2009-11-30 15:46:39|brentswain38|Re: USCG Boatbuilder's Handbook|In Canada, federal registration simply makes it easy for anyone to put a lien on your boat for any reason, legit or not, and have it stick. I see no good reason to get federal registry. They say they can help you more if your boat is registered if you have trouble with foreign governments, but the Canadian government has repeatedly proved as useless as a one legged man in an ass kicking contest, when it comes to helping Canadians abroad. The current conservative government has taken such uselessness to new heights. This is almost impossible with a K number, as if you get it federally registered, just before sale, the lien is not transfered, and it shows up clear title, no liens. Banks got burned this way back in the 80's, so will no longer loan money on a boat that is not federally registered. Nothing to stop you from getting several K numbers in different provinces including tax free Alberta. Not a bad idea, I've been told. Federal registry also means you have to renew the registry every three years, free at the moment , but don't expect it to stay that way. If a boat is under 10 hp and under 15 tons, no registry or paperwork of any kind is needed, until you plan to go offshore. I was wondering, if I get my boat federaly registered, and thus get rid of the K number, then let the registry expire, does that eliminate the existence of my boat on paper? When I get too old to go offshore, or it becomes bureucratically impossible, that would be an attractive option. --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Carl Anderson wrote: > > Nice thing about building a boat in Canada and then bringing it back to > the USA is a little thing called NAFTA. > NAFTA = no import duty! (my processing fee was $19 from USA customs) > > A boat certainly does not need to be "documented" to bring through USA > customs. A state registration is more than sufficient. > > Since I really DID NOT want to have any Canadian "hull numbers" on my > boat, I registered it in Utah as a homebuilt sailboat and received a > Utah homebuilt HIN for the state registration process. > > Funniest thing was when I returned to Canada with the boat, the customs > officer commented "that boat has never been in Canada before". > > Carl > sv-mom.com > > > wild_explorer wrote: > > > > > > > What kind of a trace would that be, I wonder? How would they recognize > > > that hull once it's had a deck, masts, etc. put on it, and has been > > > painted? > > > > If you bring the boat as a vessel and not as scrap metal: Vessel/hull > > should have ID # (you need one for US registration anyway), US custom > > will ask you where it was built - to calculate import fee to charge you. > > I do not know all the process and what documentation they will ask to > > prove it (I need to do more research). But I am sure, you will not be > > able to bring boat through US custom undocumented. > > > | 21606|21584|2009-11-30 16:58:32|aaron riis|Re: foam|Hey, Brent, It looks like the local foam guy in Terrace is out of buisness or hiding, considering buying a tigerfoam kit for insulation in my '26, i estimate that 600 bd ft should be enough.  Is this foam appropriate?    Aaron --- On Mon, 11/30/09, brentswain38 wrote: From: brentswain38 Subject: [origamiboats] Re: USCG Boatbuilder's Handbook To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Received: Monday, November 30, 2009, 12:45 PM   In Canada, federal registration simply makes it easy for anyone to put a lien on your boat for any reason, legit or not, and have it stick. I see no good reason to get federal registry. They say they can help you more if your boat is registered if you have trouble with foreign governments, but the Canadian government has repeatedly proved as useless as a one legged man in an ass kicking contest, when it comes to helping Canadians abroad. The current conservative government has taken such uselessness to new heights. This is almost impossible with a K number, as if you get it federally registered, just before sale, the lien is not transfered, and it shows up clear title, no liens. Banks got burned this way back in the 80's, so will no longer loan money on a boat that is not federally registered. Nothing to stop you from getting several K numbers in different provinces including tax free Alberta. Not a bad idea, I've been told. Federal registry also means you have to renew the registry every three years, free at the moment , but don't expect it to stay that way. If a boat is under 10 hp and under 15 tons, no registry or paperwork of any kind is needed, until you plan to go offshore. I was wondering, if I get my boat federaly registered, and thus get rid of the K number, then let the registry expire, does that eliminate the existence of my boat on paper? When I get too old to go offshore, or it becomes bureucratically impossible, that would be an attractive option. --- In origamiboats@ yahoogroups. com, Carl Anderson wrote: > > Nice thing about building a boat in Canada and then bringing it back to > the USA is a little thing called NAFTA. > NAFTA = no import duty! (my processing fee was $19 from USA customs) > > A boat certainly does not need to be "documented" to bring through USA > customs. A state registration is more than sufficient. > > Since I really DID NOT want to have any Canadian "hull numbers" on my > boat, I registered it in Utah as a homebuilt sailboat and received a > Utah homebuilt HIN for the state registration process. > > Funniest thing was when I returned to Canada with the boat, the customs > officer commented "that boat has never been in Canada before". > > Carl > sv-mom.com > > > wild_explorer wrote: > > > > > > > What kind of a trace would that be, I wonder? How would they recognize > > > that hull once it's had a deck, masts, etc. put on it, and has been > > > painted? > > > > If you bring the boat as a vessel and not as scrap metal: Vessel/hull > > should have ID # (you need one for US registration anyway), US custom > > will ask you where it was built - to calculate import fee to charge you. > > I do not know all the process and what documentation they will ask to > > prove it (I need to do more research). But I am sure, you will not be > > able to bring boat through US custom undocumented. > > > __________________________________________________________________ Looking for the perfect gift? Give the gift of Flickr! http://www.flickr.com/gift/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 21607|21607|2009-11-30 18:09:16|rooster|Aluminum BS 40|I need to know the displacement of the 40 footer in aluminum to work out the rigging and engine horsepower. Thanks| 21608|21584|2009-11-30 22:15:57|theboilerflue|Re: USCG Boatbuilder's Handbook|but one can just paint them on right? or do there have to stamped to the hull? --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Tom Mann wrote: > > One problem there would be hull ID#, Here in the states home built the DMV > issues the hull ID. I am pretty sure you would have some major problems > with 2 sets of hull numbers. > Tom > > On Sun, Nov 29, 2009 at 12:57 PM, theboilerflue wrote: > > > I wonder what there would be stopping one from from registering one's boat > > as being built in Canada then also registering it as being built in the > > states as well how would they know the difference. > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "gcode fi (hanermo)" > > wrote: > > > > > > Caution may be in order. > > > It may well be impossible to register a boat built in canada, as a "US > > > documented vessel". > > > > > > The issue is not clear due to various forms of registration and > > > documentation. > > > > > > US "documented vessels" are usually commercial. > > > A long list of stringent requirements, lots of paperwork. May be > > > impossible, or very expensive. > > > A US "documented vessel", documented according to the standards of the > > > USCG, is a commercial craft. > > > These must, according to the Jones ACT, be built in the US. > > > > > > Registered vessels are different, and there is different types of > > > registration, state and federal. > > > You can register any vessel you own, in the US. Sometimes it is > > > necessary, depending on where you live, and size of boat, etc. Taxes > > apply. > > > > > > Just thought you may want to take this into account. > > > IF for example, you plan to use the boat for commercial activities, it > > > may be an absolute requirement that it be built in the USA. > > > You might then, for example, need to bring a hull into the US, to > > > "build" or finish it there. > > > I am not sure if this is easy, difficult or impossible, no idea. > > > > > > If you go this route, it might be a good idea to check with your local > > > customs and tax office first. > > > Also, in most cases, implementation and how they look at it very a lot. > > > One office may say one thing, and another another thing. In general, > > > once you have it approved in any one office/part, it´s valid, even if > > > another office would not have approved it. > > > > > > The actual requirements regarding safety, re: what and how the boat is > > > built, dont even enter into it at that time, they are a completely > > > separate issue. > > > In general, these requirements pertain to safety, based on international > > > SOLAS standards, and all compliant solutions are valid. > > > For example, a light may be required to be USCG certified. > > > A RINA- certified (or EU) light is just as good, if you bought the boat > > > internationally. If you "built it" in the states, the local enforcer may > > > not accept the international light- although they may be required to. > > > > > > Certainly any boat built in say canada, certified there, inspected, can > > > be sailed anywhere including the US. > > > Registration is another matter, as is resale. > > > I have dealt with about 50 vehicles and boats, internationally, so I > > > have gotten some practice at the issues, and thus recommend checking, > > > especially because there are lots of regs and lots of interpretations. > > > In my experience, everything is possible, in the end, except commercial > > > boats/vehicles. These may need to be treated differently, and are > > > certainly a lot more expensive and harder. > > > > > > > > > wild_explorer wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > There is Boatbuilder's Handbook where US Coast Guards put some > > > > information together for boat builders to comply with US boat's safety > > > > regulations. > > > > > > > > It could be downloaded here: > > > > > > > > > > http://www.uscgboating.org/regulations/boatbuilder_s_handbook/downloads.aspx > > > > < > > http://www.uscgboating.org/regulations/boatbuilder_s_handbook/downloads.aspx > > > > > > > > > > > Did anybody followed it during boat building process or boat > > > > registration by USCG? > > > > > > > > Does the boat built in Canada need to be in compliance with this > > > > handbook if registered in USA? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > > origamiboats-unsubscribe@...! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > | 21609|21584|2009-11-30 22:45:13|Carl Anderson|Re: USCG Boatbuilder's Handbook|Well I guess in Canada you can paint them on. But in the USA they have to be stamped into the hull in a very specific location too! Carl sv-mom.com theboilerflue wrote: > > > but one can just paint them on right? or do there have to stamped to the > hull? > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > , Tom Mann wrote: > > > > One problem there would be hull ID#, Here in the states home built > the DMV > > issues the hull ID. I am pretty sure you would have some major problems > > with 2 sets of hull numbers. > > Tom > > > > On Sun, Nov 29, 2009 at 12:57 PM, theboilerflue wrote: > > > > > I wonder what there would be stopping one from from registering > one's boat > > > as being built in Canada then also registering it as being built in the > > > states as well how would they know the difference. > > > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > , "gcode fi (hanermo)" > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Caution may be in order. > > > > It may well be impossible to register a boat built in canada, as > a "US > > > > documented vessel". > > > > > > > > The issue is not clear due to various forms of registration and > > > > documentation. > > > > > > > > US "documented vessels" are usually commercial. > > > > A long list of stringent requirements, lots of paperwork. May be > > > > impossible, or very expensive. > > > > A US "documented vessel", documented according to the standards > of the > > > > USCG, is a commercial craft. > > > > These must, according to the Jones ACT, be built in the US. > > > > > > > > Registered vessels are different, and there is different types of > > > > registration, state and federal. > > > > You can register any vessel you own, in the US. Sometimes it is > > > > necessary, depending on where you live, and size of boat, etc. Taxes > > > apply. > > > > > > > > Just thought you may want to take this into account. > > > > IF for example, you plan to use the boat for commercial > activities, it > > > > may be an absolute requirement that it be built in the USA. > > > > You might then, for example, need to bring a hull into the US, to > > > > "build" or finish it there. > > > > I am not sure if this is easy, difficult or impossible, no idea. > > > > > > > > If you go this route, it might be a good idea to check with your > local > > > > customs and tax office first. > > > > Also, in most cases, implementation and how they look at it very > a lot. > > > > One office may say one thing, and another another thing. In general, > > > > once you have it approved in any one office/part, it´s valid, even if > > > > another office would not have approved it. > > > > > > > > The actual requirements regarding safety, re: what and how the > boat is > > > > built, dont even enter into it at that time, they are a completely > > > > separate issue. > > > > In general, these requirements pertain to safety, based on > international > > > > SOLAS standards, and all compliant solutions are valid. > > > > For example, a light may be required to be USCG certified. > > > > A RINA- certified (or EU) light is just as good, if you bought > the boat > > > > internationally. If you "built it" in the states, the local > enforcer may > > > > not accept the international light- although they may be required to. > > > > > > > > Certainly any boat built in say canada, certified there, > inspected, can > > > > be sailed anywhere including the US. > > > > Registration is another matter, as is resale. > > > > I have dealt with about 50 vehicles and boats, internationally, so I > > > > have gotten some practice at the issues, and thus recommend checking, > > > > especially because there are lots of regs and lots of > interpretations. > > > > In my experience, everything is possible, in the end, except > commercial > > > > boats/vehicles. These may need to be treated differently, and are > > > > certainly a lot more expensive and harder. > > > > > > > > > > > > wild_explorer wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There is Boatbuilder's Handbook where US Coast Guards put some > > > > > information together for boat builders to comply with US boat's > safety > > > > > regulations. > > > > > > > > > > It could be downloaded here: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.uscgboating.org/regulations/boatbuilder_s_handbook/downloads.aspx > > > > > > < > > > > http://www.uscgboating.org/regulations/boatbuilder_s_handbook/downloads.aspx > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Did anybody followed it during boat building process or boat > > > > > registration by USCG? > > > > > > > > > > Does the boat built in Canada need to be in compliance with this > > > > > handbook if registered in USA? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > > > origamiboats-unsubscribe@...! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > | 21610|21584|2009-11-30 22:49:08|Aaron Williams|Re: USCG Boatbuilder's Handbook|I understand the numbers can be engraved in directly or attached as with a tag on a fiberglass hull or you could weld the numbers. I would put one set where only you the owner builder new where they were just in case someone stole your boat.  Aaron  --- On Mon, 11/30/09, theboilerflue wrote: From: theboilerflue Subject: [origamiboats] Re: USCG Boatbuilder's Handbook To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, November 30, 2009, 6:15 PM   but one can just paint them on right? or do there have to stamped to the hull? --- In origamiboats@ yahoogroups. com, Tom Mann wrote: > > One problem there would be hull ID#, Here in the states home built the DMV > issues the hull ID. I am pretty sure you would have some major problems > with 2 sets of hull numbers. > Tom > > On Sun, Nov 29, 2009 at 12:57 PM, theboilerflue wrote: > > > I wonder what there would be stopping one from from registering one's boat > > as being built in Canada then also registering it as being built in the > > states as well how would they know the difference. > > > > --- In origamiboats@ yahoogroups. com, "gcode fi (hanermo)" > > wrote: > > > > > > Caution may be in order. > > > It may well be impossible to register a boat built in canada, as a "US > > > documented vessel". > > > > > > The issue is not clear due to various forms of registration and > > > documentation. > > > > > > US "documented vessels" are usually commercial. > > > A long list of stringent requirements, lots of paperwork. May be > > > impossible, or very expensive. > > > A US "documented vessel", documented according to the standards of the > > > USCG, is a commercial craft. > > > These must, according to the Jones ACT, be built in the US. > > > > > > Registered vessels are different, and there is different types of > > > registration, state and federal. > > > You can register any vessel you own, in the US. Sometimes it is > > > necessary, depending on where you live, and size of boat, etc. Taxes > > apply. > > > > > > Just thought you may want to take this into account. > > > IF for example, you plan to use the boat for commercial activities, it > > > may be an absolute requirement that it be built in the USA. > > > You might then, for example, need to bring a hull into the US, to > > > "build" or finish it there. > > > I am not sure if this is easy, difficult or impossible, no idea. > > > > > > If you go this route, it might be a good idea to check with your local > > > customs and tax office first. > > > Also, in most cases, implementation and how they look at it very a lot. > > > One office may say one thing, and another another thing. In general, > > > once you have it approved in any one office/part, it´s valid, even if > > > another office would not have approved it. > > > > > > The actual requirements regarding safety, re: what and how the boat is > > > built, dont even enter into it at that time, they are a completely > > > separate issue. > > > In general, these requirements pertain to safety, based on international > > > SOLAS standards, and all compliant solutions are valid. > > > For example, a light may be required to be USCG certified. > > > A RINA- certified (or EU) light is just as good, if you bought the boat > > > internationally. If you "built it" in the states, the local enforcer may > > > not accept the international light- although they may be required to. > > > > > > Certainly any boat built in say canada, certified there, inspected, can > > > be sailed anywhere including the US. > > > Registration is another matter, as is resale. > > > I have dealt with about 50 vehicles and boats, internationally, so I > > > have gotten some practice at the issues, and thus recommend checking, > > > especially because there are lots of regs and lots of interpretations. > > > In my experience, everything is possible, in the end, except commercial > > > boats/vehicles. These may need to be treated differently, and are > > > certainly a lot more expensive and harder. > > > > > > > > > wild_explorer wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > There is Boatbuilder' s Handbook where US Coast Guards put some > > > > information together for boat builders to comply with US boat's safety > > > > regulations. > > > > > > > > It could be downloaded here: > > > > > > > > > > http://www.uscgboat ing.org/regulati ons/boatbuilder_ s_handbook/ downloads. aspx > > > > < > > http://www.uscgboat ing.org/regulati ons/boatbuilder_ s_handbook/ downloads. aspx > > > > > > > > > > > Did anybody followed it during boat building process or boat > > > > registration by USCG? > > > > > > > > Does the boat built in Canada need to be in compliance with this > > > > handbook if registered in USA? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- ------ > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@ yahoogroups. com > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > > origamiboats- unsubscribe@ ...! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 21611|21584|2009-11-30 23:10:56|wild_explorer|Re: USCG Boatbuilder's Handbook|Check Part1 of the USCG Boatbuilder's Hadbook, this is information from page 48 Sec. 181.29—Hull identification number display Two identical hull identification numbers are required to be displayed on each boat hull. (a) The primary hull identification number must be affixed— (1) On boats with transoms, to the starboard outboard side of the transom within two inches of the top of the transom, gunwale, or hull/deck joint, whichever is lowest. (2) On boats without transoms or on boats on which it would be impractical to use the transom, to the starboard outboard side of the hull, aft, within one foot of the stern and within two inches of the top of the hull side, gunwale or hull/deck joint, whichever is lowest. (3) On catamarans and pontoon boats which have readily replaceable hulls, to the aft crossbeam within one foot of the starboard hull attachment. (4) If the hull identification number would not be visible, because of rails, fittings, or other accessories, the number must be affixed as near as possible to the location specified in paragraph (a) of this section. (b) The duplicate hull identification number must be affixed in an unexposed location on the interior of the boat or beneath a fitting or item of hardware. (c) Each hull identification number must be carved, burned, stamped, embossed, molded, bonded, or otherwise permanently affixed to the boat so that alteration, removal, or replacement would be obvious. If the number is on a separate plate, the plate must be fastened in such a manner that its removal would normally cause some scarring of or damage to the surrounding hull area. A hull identification number must not be attached to parts of the boat that are removable. (d) The characters of each hull identification number must be no less than one-fourth of an inch high. --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "theboilerflue" wrote: > > but one can just paint them on right? or do there have to stamped to the hull? > | 21613|21586|2009-12-01 12:50:16|maxcamirand|Re: Looking for NW coast boatyard|Someone told me about South Park, yes. I visited them yesterday but they're closed on Mondays. Best price around, by far. They're not sure if they can give me a spot yet, though. It /is/ the Gazelle that was for sale in Shilshole. However, I don't know if I trust the engine for the trip, and the hull is a mussel farm, so it's either truck or tow, unfortunately. I'm also not there to handle it personally, so I'm already relying on the former owner's generosity to supervise the move and I don't wanna push it. Regards, -Max --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "paull01" wrote: > > > > Have you called South Park? I think Rich or Guy could transport it. If you're talking about the Gazelle that was for sale at Shilshole, you could just motor her up the Duwamish. > > Paul > Seattle > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "maxcamirand" wrote: > > > > Hi group, > > > > I'm buying a boat in Seattle. I need to put it on the hard until > > spring in order to do some renovations. Since the local yard here (at > > Shilshole) is prohibitively expensive ($630/month to have the boat on > > the hard), I'm looking to get the boat trucked to another yard near > > here. Then, when I finish the renovations, I'll get it put back into > > the water and sail away. > > > > Criteria for the yard: > > -Lift capable of putting my boat directly back into the water, without > > trucking it. The boat is 42 ft and approx 20 000 lbs. > > -Near as possible to Seattle. Can be in Canada. > > -Electrical power > > -Available showers and washrooms would be great > > > > I've already gotten a recommendation for South Park boat yard, which charges about 400 a month. > > > > If anyone has a recommendation for a transport company, I would > > appreciate it as well! > > > > Best regards, > > Maxime Camirand > > > | 21614|21586|2009-12-01 15:15:46|maxcamirand|Re: Looking for NW coast boatyard|Yikes, the trucking company wants $850. Going to see if a tow is possible. Regards, -Maxime --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "maxcamirand" wrote: > > Someone told me about South Park, yes. I visited them yesterday but they're closed on Mondays. Best price around, by far. They're not sure if they can give me a spot yet, though. > > It /is/ the Gazelle that was for sale in Shilshole. However, I don't know if I trust the engine for the trip, and the hull is a mussel farm, so it's either truck or tow, unfortunately. I'm also not there to handle it personally, so I'm already relying on the former owner's generosity to supervise the move and I don't wanna push it. > > Regards, > -Max > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "paull01" wrote: > > > > > > > > Have you called South Park? I think Rich or Guy could transport it. If you're talking about the Gazelle that was for sale at Shilshole, you could just motor her up the Duwamish. > > > > Paul > > Seattle > > > > > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "maxcamirand" wrote: > > > > > > Hi group, > > > > > > I'm buying a boat in Seattle. I need to put it on the hard until > > > spring in order to do some renovations. Since the local yard here (at > > > Shilshole) is prohibitively expensive ($630/month to have the boat on > > > the hard), I'm looking to get the boat trucked to another yard near > > > here. Then, when I finish the renovations, I'll get it put back into > > > the water and sail away. > > > > > > Criteria for the yard: > > > -Lift capable of putting my boat directly back into the water, without > > > trucking it. The boat is 42 ft and approx 20 000 lbs. > > > -Near as possible to Seattle. Can be in Canada. > > > -Electrical power > > > -Available showers and washrooms would be great > > > > > > I've already gotten a recommendation for South Park boat yard, which charges about 400 a month. > > > > > > If anyone has a recommendation for a transport company, I would > > > appreciate it as well! > > > > > > Best regards, > > > Maxime Camirand > > > > > > | 21615|21584|2009-12-01 15:15:48|Paul Wilson|Re: USGS certification (was: USCG Boatbuilder's Handbook)|>>>> I've heard of US boats getting into trouble in French >>>> territories like Martinique with state registry, because it was not Federal. No problem with K numbers because it is federal. Funny, the first time I sailed thru Tahiti , and New Caledonia, I had no registration of any kind, no problem. The Bureuacrats have gained far more power than they can ever be trusted with, since. Not related to boat registration but hopefully somewhat relevant:). The government rules keep changing. I know personally of a Fijian who just went to get a visa for French Polynesia. They have just changed all their rules and have increased security requirements. Although he had a visa many times in the past for French territories (he is a delivery skipper) they now require a personal interview and a biometric visa (fingerprints, photos, etc.) This requires going to an embassy and is not possible thru the mail. They also required personal medical insurance before they would grant the visa. I have never heard of any country requiring medical insurance to visit before but they would not give the visa until it was obtained. It could be this embassy office (Panama)wasn't following their own new rules properly but they were quite insistent and the visa application form definitely had the check box for it. The Panama agent had never heard it before but even he couldn't change their minds. It created quite a problem for the skipper since he didn't have the money. Rules for Canadians or other nationalities may be different but you can't take anything for granted when it comes to government rules and their ability to change them. Cheers, Paul| 21618|21618|2009-12-04 15:14:29|GP|Crew....|Southern cruisers! If you are interested in taking on a crew member for this winter I am available... ....thanks Gary| 21619|21584|2009-12-04 18:02:21|brentswain38|Re: foam|Aaron I have no experience with this type of foam. Your guess is as good as mine. Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, aaron riis wrote: > > Hey, Brent, It looks like the local foam guy in Terrace is out of buisness or hiding, considering buying a tigerfoam kit for insulation in my '26, i estimate that 600 bd ft should be enough.  Is this foam appropriate?    Aaron > > --- On Mon, 11/30/09, brentswain38 wrote: > > > From: brentswain38 > Subject: [origamiboats] Re: USCG Boatbuilder's Handbook > To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > Received: Monday, November 30, 2009, 12:45 PM > > >   > > > > In Canada, federal registration simply makes it easy for anyone to put a lien on your boat for any reason, legit or not, and have it stick. I see no good reason to get federal registry. They say they can help you more if your boat is registered if you have trouble with foreign governments, but the Canadian government has repeatedly proved as useless as a one legged man in an ass kicking contest, when it comes to helping Canadians abroad. The current conservative government has taken such uselessness to new heights. > This is almost impossible with a K number, as if you get it federally registered, just before sale, the lien is not transfered, and it shows up clear title, no liens. Banks got burned this way back in the 80's, so will no longer loan money on a boat that is not federally registered. Nothing to stop you from getting several K numbers in different provinces including tax free Alberta. Not a bad idea, I've been told. > Federal registry also means you have to renew the registry every three years, free at the moment , but don't expect it to stay that way. If a boat is under 10 hp and under 15 tons, no registry or paperwork of any kind is needed, until you plan to go offshore. > I was wondering, if I get my boat federaly registered, and thus get rid of the K number, then let the registry expire, does that eliminate the existence of my boat on paper? When I get too old to go offshore, or it becomes bureucratically impossible, that would be an attractive option. > > --- In origamiboats@ yahoogroups. com, Carl Anderson wrote: > > > > Nice thing about building a boat in Canada and then bringing it back to > > the USA is a little thing called NAFTA. > > NAFTA = no import duty! (my processing fee was $19 from USA customs) > > > > A boat certainly does not need to be "documented" to bring through USA > > customs. A state registration is more than sufficient. > > > > Since I really DID NOT want to have any Canadian "hull numbers" on my > > boat, I registered it in Utah as a homebuilt sailboat and received a > > Utah homebuilt HIN for the state registration process. > > > > Funniest thing was when I returned to Canada with the boat, the customs > > officer commented "that boat has never been in Canada before". > > > > Carl > > sv-mom.com > > > > > > wild_explorer wrote: > > > > > > > > > > What kind of a trace would that be, I wonder? How would they recognize > > > > that hull once it's had a deck, masts, etc. put on it, and has been > > > > painted? > > > > > > If you bring the boat as a vessel and not as scrap metal: Vessel/hull > > > should have ID # (you need one for US registration anyway), US custom > > > will ask you where it was built - to calculate import fee to charge you. > > > I do not know all the process and what documentation they will ask to > > > prove it (I need to do more research). But I am sure, you will not be > > > able to bring boat through US custom undocumented. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________________________ > Looking for the perfect gift? Give the gift of Flickr! > > http://www.flickr.com/gift/ > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > | 21620|21584|2009-12-04 18:05:05|brentswain38|Re: USCG Boatbuilder's Handbook|I prefer to paint them on aboard, to make them removeable for hull painting. They have to be at least three inches high, in a contrasting colour , but it doesn't matter how thin the lines are. Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "theboilerflue" wrote: > > but one can just paint them on right? or do there have to stamped to the hull? > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Tom Mann wrote: > > > > One problem there would be hull ID#, Here in the states home built the DMV > > issues the hull ID. I am pretty sure you would have some major problems > > with 2 sets of hull numbers. > > Tom > > > > On Sun, Nov 29, 2009 at 12:57 PM, theboilerflue wrote: > > > > > I wonder what there would be stopping one from from registering one's boat > > > as being built in Canada then also registering it as being built in the > > > states as well how would they know the difference. > > > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "gcode fi (hanermo)" > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Caution may be in order. > > > > It may well be impossible to register a boat built in canada, as a "US > > > > documented vessel". > > > > > > > > The issue is not clear due to various forms of registration and > > > > documentation. > > > > > > > > US "documented vessels" are usually commercial. > > > > A long list of stringent requirements, lots of paperwork. May be > > > > impossible, or very expensive. > > > > A US "documented vessel", documented according to the standards of the > > > > USCG, is a commercial craft. > > > > These must, according to the Jones ACT, be built in the US. > > > > > > > > Registered vessels are different, and there is different types of > > > > registration, state and federal. > > > > You can register any vessel you own, in the US. Sometimes it is > > > > necessary, depending on where you live, and size of boat, etc. Taxes > > > apply. > > > > > > > > Just thought you may want to take this into account. > > > > IF for example, you plan to use the boat for commercial activities, it > > > > may be an absolute requirement that it be built in the USA. > > > > You might then, for example, need to bring a hull into the US, to > > > > "build" or finish it there. > > > > I am not sure if this is easy, difficult or impossible, no idea. > > > > > > > > If you go this route, it might be a good idea to check with your local > > > > customs and tax office first. > > > > Also, in most cases, implementation and how they look at it very a lot. > > > > One office may say one thing, and another another thing. In general, > > > > once you have it approved in any one office/part, it´s valid, even if > > > > another office would not have approved it. > > > > > > > > The actual requirements regarding safety, re: what and how the boat is > > > > built, dont even enter into it at that time, they are a completely > > > > separate issue. > > > > In general, these requirements pertain to safety, based on international > > > > SOLAS standards, and all compliant solutions are valid. > > > > For example, a light may be required to be USCG certified. > > > > A RINA- certified (or EU) light is just as good, if you bought the boat > > > > internationally. If you "built it" in the states, the local enforcer may > > > > not accept the international light- although they may be required to. > > > > > > > > Certainly any boat built in say canada, certified there, inspected, can > > > > be sailed anywhere including the US. > > > > Registration is another matter, as is resale. > > > > I have dealt with about 50 vehicles and boats, internationally, so I > > > > have gotten some practice at the issues, and thus recommend checking, > > > > especially because there are lots of regs and lots of interpretations. > > > > In my experience, everything is possible, in the end, except commercial > > > > boats/vehicles. These may need to be treated differently, and are > > > > certainly a lot more expensive and harder. > > > > > > > > > > > > wild_explorer wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There is Boatbuilder's Handbook where US Coast Guards put some > > > > > information together for boat builders to comply with US boat's safety > > > > > regulations. > > > > > > > > > > It could be downloaded here: > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.uscgboating.org/regulations/boatbuilder_s_handbook/downloads.aspx > > > > > < > > > http://www.uscgboating.org/regulations/boatbuilder_s_handbook/downloads.aspx > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Did anybody followed it during boat building process or boat > > > > > registration by USCG? > > > > > > > > > > Does the boat built in Canada need to be in compliance with this > > > > > handbook if registered in USA? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > > > origamiboats-unsubscribe@! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > | 21621|21607|2009-12-04 18:08:50|brentswain38|Re: Aluminum BS 40|She'll be around 25,000 lbs, fully loaded, depending on how much you load her up.. --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "rooster" wrote: > > I need to know the displacement of the 40 footer in aluminum to work out the rigging and engine horsepower. Thanks > | 21622|21618|2009-12-04 19:51:47|Hike|Re: Crew....|I am available also. Location: San Diego Ca ----- Original Message ----- From: GP To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 12:14 PM Subject: [origamiboats] Crew.... Southern cruisers! If you are interested in taking on a crew member for this winter I am available... ....thanks Gary [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 21623|21623|2009-12-06 03:50:24|alfredo.nannetti@libero.it|BS 36' ANDES|Hello' to evryone, I'm trying to get in touch with "mickeyolaf", I have seen some pictures of his boat "ANDES" on the photo section. I wrote to him but I didn't recive any answer. Does anybody know another e-mail address? I would like to ask him some informations about his boat. Thanks Alfredo| 21624|21624|2009-12-06 18:13:00|cptcrunch100|butt welding ontop of existing plates|Has anybody ever attempted this? I've got a 38 footer with some holes.| 21625|21624|2009-12-06 18:40:17|Aaron Williams|Re: butt welding ontop of existing plates|cptCrunch  Are you referring to a patch on top creating a lap joint or cutting out the old piece and but welding a new one? Getting a good fit is the most important part. Get the contour your new piece need before you cut out the old part that will help the fit. Lots of short tacks. and short welds while letting thing cool down in between. Try to make rounded corners and weld wrap opposite corners first. That is the way I would do it for myself. I am sure there are others with experience in that type of repair. Aaron  --- On Sun, 12/6/09, cptcrunch100 wrote: From: cptcrunch100 Subject: [origamiboats] butt welding ontop of existing plates To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, December 6, 2009, 2:12 PM   Has anybody ever attempted this? I've got a 38 footer with some holes. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 21626|21624|2009-12-07 12:19:47|slade|Re: butt welding ontop of existing plates|That makes sense, I like the contour trick. I have hatched an Idea that includes Lap welding an entire plate ontop of an existing plate then filling the void between the plates with linseed oil through a greese nipple that is tapped through the now interior plate. I have bought this boat from someone who has done this (not including the linseed oil part) on only one plate on one side and because of this there is a substantial list. Comments ???... --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Aaron Williams wrote: > > cptCrunch >  Are you referring to a patch on top creating a lap joint or cutting out the old piece and but welding a new one? > Getting a good fit is the most important part. Get the contour your new piece need before you cut out the old part that will help the fit. Lots of short tacks. and short welds while letting thing cool down in between. Try to make rounded corners and weld wrap opposite corners first. That is the way I would do it for myself. I am sure there are others with experience in that type of repair. > Aaron  > > --- On Sun, 12/6/09, cptcrunch100 wrote: > > > From: cptcrunch100 > Subject: [origamiboats] butt welding ontop of existing plates > To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > Date: Sunday, December 6, 2009, 2:12 PM > > >   > > > > Has anybody ever attempted this? I've got a 38 footer with some holes. > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > | 21627|21624|2009-12-07 17:25:48|sae140|Re: butt welding ontop of existing plates|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "slade" wrote: > > That makes sense, I like the contour trick. I have hatched an Idea that includes Lap welding an entire plate ontop of an existing plate then filling the void between the plates with linseed oil through a greese nipple that is tapped through the now interior plate. I have bought this boat from someone who has done this (not including the linseed oil part) on only one plate on one side and because of this there is a substantial list. Comments ???... > Maybe I'm being thick, but I don't understand the use of oil ? For a welded repair, so much depends on the shape of the plates and the available access. If you have good access and are working with reasonably flat plates, then (if I were doing the job) I would cut out the corroded/damaged areas and make repair plates a couple of inches larger. So, say, for a 4" x 4" hole, a 6" x 6" repair plate. Then I'd tack weld the repair plate onto the inside of the hull, followed by a lap weld on the outside, then ditto the inside. With the plate double lap-welded like this, no air or moisture can get between the plates, so no need to worry about corrosion. Then, to tidy the job, filler can be applied to the outside and the repair made fair. But - for a more workmanlike job - I'd tack weld a repair plate over the affected area, then cut through the repair plate and hull plating at the same time using a very thin zip disk. Then tack the repair plate in position using a couple of long lengths of angle iron across the hole, keeping the plate centralised to give an equal narrow gap all around. Then skip butt weld using short runs to keep the distortion to a minimum. If you need to weld both sides, then weld the inside first, which will allow you to lightly run the zip disk into the weld from the outside to clear any slag. All that should be necessary afterwards is to dress the outside weld beads - no filler should be necessary. If you're working with curved plates and poor access, then it will be a much harder job, but the above might give you some ideas. Wishing you Good Luck. Colin| 21628|21624|2009-12-07 20:20:15|Gary H. Lucas|Re: butt welding ontop of existing plates|You guys sound like you are working with fiberglass! I once rebuilt the floor of a truck by making lots of separate pieces and gas butt welding them in place. It was 16 gauge. Worked well and our feet no longer got wet from the water slinging off the front wheels! Cut out the piece for the patch first. Do any bending, forming, you need so it lays nicely against the hull in the area of the repair. Then scribe around it with a carbide scriber. Cut out the old plate to that line. Insert the new plate. Use welding magnets to hold it at a couple of points, and tack it in until it is secure. The hull may move when you cut the old part out, so consider doing smaller sections. THEN if you aren't up to the task of butt welding thin plate bring in someone who can, you already did all the hard work! Good job for gas welding too. Gary H. Lucas ----- Original Message ----- From: "slade" To: Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 12:19 PM Subject: [origamiboats] Re: butt welding ontop of existing plates That makes sense, I like the contour trick. I have hatched an Idea that includes Lap welding an entire plate ontop of an existing plate then filling the void between the plates with linseed oil through a greese nipple that is tapped through the now interior plate. I have bought this boat from someone who has done this (not including the linseed oil part) on only one plate on one side and because of this there is a substantial list. Comments ???... --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Aaron Williams wrote: > > cptCrunch >  Are you referring to a patch on top creating a lap joint or cutting out > the old piece and but welding a new one? > Getting a good fit is the most important part. Get the contour your new > piece need before you cut out the old part that will help the fit. Lots of > short tacks. and short welds while letting thing cool down in between. > Try to make rounded corners and weld wrap opposite corners first. That is > the way I would do it for myself. I am sure there are others with > experience in that type of repair. > Aaron > > --- On Sun, 12/6/09, cptcrunch100 wrote: > > > From: cptcrunch100 > Subject: [origamiboats] butt welding ontop of existing plates > To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > Date: Sunday, December 6, 2009, 2:12 PM > > >  > > > > Has anybody ever attempted this? I've got a 38 footer with some holes. > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > | 21629|21624|2009-12-07 20:58:16|James Pronk|Re: butt welding ontop of existing plates|I think Gary has the right idea. It is steel and the beauty of steel is you can butt weld it and get a good strong repair with very little if any sign that it has been repaired. I would not want to do a lap weld if I can't get a good air tight seal between the two plates James __________________________________________________________________ Make your browsing faster, safer, and easier with the new Internet Explorer® 8. Optimized for Yahoo! Get it Now for Free! at http://downloads.yahoo.com/ca/internetexplorer/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]| 21630|21624|2009-12-08 06:09:09|sae140|Re: butt welding ontop of existing plates|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Gary H. Lucas" wrote: >I once rebuilt the > floor of a truck by making lots of separate pieces and gas butt welding them > in place. It was 16 gauge. >if you aren't up to the > task of butt welding thin plate bring in someone who can, you already did > all the hard work! The OP made reference to the hull having a list due to over-plating, so I suspect it's a lot thicker than 16 gauge (1.2mm).| 21631|21631|2009-12-08 09:34:58|jpronk1|Main Sail|Would this sail work for a BS 36? My plans are at the shop and I was hoping someone would know. Thank you, James Foot: 14 ' Luff: 43.6' Leech: 45'| 21632|21631|2009-12-08 10:03:26|Carl Anderson|Re: Main Sail|You need a longer foot and a shorter luff unless you are using a 48 foot mast. On my 44' mast I have 38.5' of luff and a 15' foot. Carl sv-mom.com jpronk1 wrote: > > > Would this sail work for a BS 36? > My plans are at the shop and I was hoping someone would know. > Thank you, > James > Foot: 14 ' > Luff: 43.6' > Leech: 45' > > | 21633|21624|2009-12-08 10:12:56|RICHARD KOKEMOOR|Re: butt welding ontop of existing plates|I can't recall where I read about this method, and I have never used it, but supposedly the hot trick is to make a plate just greater than the size needed to cover the hole, bend it as needed to fit flush, tack it in place and then torch through *both* plates near the edge  (avoiding frames and stringers).  Then the new plate is welded  exactly in the space of the rem0ved plate. --- In origamiboats@ yahoogroups. com, Aaron Williams  wrote: > > cptCrunch >  Are you referring to a patch on top creating a lap joint or cutting out the old piece and but welding a new one?  > Getting a good fit is the most important part. Get the contour your new piece need before you cut out the old part that will help the fit. Lots of short tacks. and short welds while letting thing cool down in between. Try to make rounded corners and weld wrap opposite corners first. That is the way I would do it for myself. I am sure there are others with experience in that type of repair. > Aaron  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]| 21634|21624|2009-12-08 11:00:56|Carl Anderson|SS acorn nuts|Has anyone else welded any 1/2" SS acorn nuts to their hull? If so you might be interested in getting some 1/2" nylon set screws to plug the "hole" when not in use. I got quite a few of them and will sell some to anyone interested for a decent price. Carl sv-mom.com| 21635|21635|2009-12-08 17:41:50|troller10|Paint - Rust Bullet|Hey everyone, Has anyone heard of a product called "Rust Bullet". The manufacturer has a high opinion of the product. I'm thinking of using it after sandblasting the inside of my 40 footer. Thanks B Hamilton| 21636|21624|2009-12-08 18:18:55|sae140|Re: butt welding ontop of existing plates|Been checking around to see what others do .... Nothing in Tom Colvin's 'Steel Boatbuilding', which surprises me. Interesting webpage at: http://www.thecoastalpassage.com/patchsteel.html showing a method of fitting a simple curved plate using wedges. Even better are the following 2 pages which show very graphically the reason why a steel hull needs to be painted properly at the time of construction, and why teak should NEVER be layed onto a steel deck. 'nuff to make a grown man cry .... http://www.thecoastalpassage.com/rust-paint.html http://www.thecoastalpassage.com/rust.html| 21637|21624|2009-12-08 19:27:43|Gary H. Lucas|Re: butt welding ontop of existing plates|Oh yeah that'll work! NOT! Cutting torches won't cut through two layers of steel unless you are using a grossly oversized tip and don't care how it looks. The oxygen jet turns sideways at the second plate and gouges out the top plate something awful. There is a good use for that though. I cut frozen nuts off without damaging the bolt, because the oxygen jet tends to flow around the bolt instead of going through it. However, you CAN do this with a plasma torch. Plasma is 50,000 degrees not 5,000. It just vaporizes everything it touches. My method of making the patch then scribing around it and cutting to the scribed line is very easy to do and gives a nice fit. Now if do get a big gap, you can fill it by sticking welding with two rods at the same time. Take a welding rod and pound all the flux off. Weld with stick pointing forward, like you were tig welding, instead of dragging backwards. Then feed the rod into the puddle with your other hand. The extra metal allows you to control the puddle. If it is getting too hot, feed the extra rod faster to absorb the heat. I've filled 1/4" vertical gaps in one pass using this method. Gary H. Lucas ----- Original Message ----- From: "RICHARD KOKEMOOR" To: Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 2009 10:12 AM Subject: [origamiboats] Re: butt welding ontop of existing plates I can't recall where I read about this method, and I have never used it, but supposedly the hot trick is to make a plate just greater than the size needed to cover the hole, bend it as needed to fit flush, tack it in place and then torch through *both* plates near the edge (avoiding frames and stringers). Then the new plate is welded exactly in the space of the rem0ved plate. --- In origamiboats@ yahoogroups. com, Aaron Williams wrote: > > cptCrunch >  Are you referring to a patch on top creating a lap joint or cutting out > the old piece and but welding a new one? > Getting a good fit is the most important part. Get the contour your new > piece need before you cut out the old part that will help the fit. Lots of > short tacks. and short welds while letting thing cool down in between. > Try to make rounded corners and weld wrap opposite corners first. That is > the way I would do it for myself. I am sure there are others with > experience in that type of repair. > Aaron [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 21638|21624|2009-12-08 19:44:48|Gary H. Lucas|Re: butt welding ontop of existing plates|Did you catch what he did wrong with the Mig welder? He mentions his welds cracking from lack of penetration. Then he fits the plates with a gap to get better penetration. That's a good idea. However, I'll bet you $100 he's using 0.035" welding wire or smaller! Yeah, yeah I know, in the hands of a REAL expert you can get perfect welds with 0.035". But how long before this guy will be that good? Better to just move up to 0.045" wire and get good penetration all the time. Did I mention how much faster your welding would get done? Gary H. Lucas ----- Original Message ----- From: "sae140" To: Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 2009 6:18 PM Subject: [origamiboats] Re: butt welding ontop of existing plates Been checking around to see what others do .... Nothing in Tom Colvin's 'Steel Boatbuilding', which surprises me. Interesting webpage at: http://www.thecoastalpassage.com/patchsteel.html showing a method of fitting a simple curved plate using wedges. Even better are the following 2 pages which show very graphically the reason why a steel hull needs to be painted properly at the time of construction, and why teak should NEVER be layed onto a steel deck. 'nuff to make a grown man cry .... http://www.thecoastalpassage.com/rust-paint.html http://www.thecoastalpassage.com/rust.html | 21639|21624|2009-12-09 04:41:10|sae140|Re: butt welding ontop of existing plates|I agree with your comments about the use of thin MIG wire, but it was his METHOD of fitting curved plates which I thought might be of interest, rather than his dubious welding skills. Personally I'd always cut with zip disks wherever possible, and use a stick welder. Also - rather then relying on short tangs to support the wedges, I'd rather run a length of angle right across the hole. --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Gary H. Lucas" wrote: > > Did you catch what he did wrong with the Mig welder? He mentions his welds > cracking from lack of penetration. Then he fits the plates with a gap to > get better penetration. That's a good idea. However, I'll bet you $100 > he's using 0.035" welding wire or smaller! Yeah, yeah I know, in the hands > of a REAL expert you can get perfect welds with 0.035". But how long before > this guy will be that good? Better to just move up to 0.045" wire and get > good penetration all the time. Did I mention how much faster your welding > would get done? > > Gary H. Lucas > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "sae140" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 2009 6:18 PM > Subject: [origamiboats] Re: butt welding ontop of existing plates > > > Been checking around to see what others do .... > > Nothing in Tom Colvin's 'Steel Boatbuilding', which surprises me. > > Interesting webpage at: http://www.thecoastalpassage.com/patchsteel.html > showing a method of fitting a simple curved plate using wedges. > > Even better are the following 2 pages which show very graphically the reason > why a steel hull needs to be painted properly at the time of construction, > and why teak should NEVER be layed onto a steel deck. > 'nuff to make a grown man cry .... > http://www.thecoastalpassage.com/rust-paint.html > http://www.thecoastalpassage.com/rust.html > | 21640|21640|2009-12-09 14:07:59|wild_explorer|What was used as a prototype for BS36 hull?|I could not find anything in Brent's book about it. What sailboat's design/model was used as a prototype for BS36 hull? Anybody has any ideas?| 21641|21640|2009-12-09 20:14:29|Gary H. Lucas|Re: What was used as a prototype for BS36 hull?|It's Brent's own design based on his own sailing experience. In other words, an "Original". I've sailed on one, sails like it on rails, the most easily steered boat I've ever been on. Gary H. Lucas ----- Original Message ----- From: "wild_explorer" To: Sent: Wednesday, December 09, 2009 2:07 PM Subject: [origamiboats] What was used as a prototype for BS36 hull? I could not find anything in Brent's book about it. What sailboat's design/model was used as a prototype for BS36 hull? Anybody has any ideas? | 21642|21635|2009-12-09 22:20:23|theboilerflue|Re: Paint - Rust Bullet|I would hope the manufacturer has a high opinion of his product... but I would count on that as a major selling point. --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "troller10" wrote: > > Hey everyone, > > Has anyone heard of a product called "Rust Bullet". The manufacturer has a high opinion of the product. I'm thinking of using it after sandblasting the inside of my 40 footer. > > Thanks > > B Hamilton > | 21643|21624|2009-12-09 22:25:16|theboilerflue|Re: butt welding ontop of existing plates|Wow that rusty boat was painful it was hardly a boat. interesting way of patching with the wedges, the other way to do it would be with a bolt or readyrod welded to the plate and you can just stick it through a piece of channel and tighten a nut down to pull the plate in to the curve. instead of wedges. --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Gary H. Lucas" wrote: > > Did you catch what he did wrong with the Mig welder? He mentions his welds > cracking from lack of penetration. Then he fits the plates with a gap to > get better penetration. That's a good idea. However, I'll bet you $100 > he's using 0.035" welding wire or smaller! Yeah, yeah I know, in the hands > of a REAL expert you can get perfect welds with 0.035". But how long before > this guy will be that good? Better to just move up to 0.045" wire and get > good penetration all the time. Did I mention how much faster your welding > would get done? > > Gary H. Lucas > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "sae140" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 2009 6:18 PM > Subject: [origamiboats] Re: butt welding ontop of existing plates > > > Been checking around to see what others do .... > > Nothing in Tom Colvin's 'Steel Boatbuilding', which surprises me. > > Interesting webpage at: http://www.thecoastalpassage.com/patchsteel.html > showing a method of fitting a simple curved plate using wedges. > > Even better are the following 2 pages which show very graphically the reason > why a steel hull needs to be painted properly at the time of construction, > and why teak should NEVER be layed onto a steel deck. > 'nuff to make a grown man cry .... > http://www.thecoastalpassage.com/rust-paint.html > http://www.thecoastalpassage.com/rust.html > | 21644|21624|2009-12-09 22:27:57|theboilerflue|Re: butt welding ontop of existing plates|Nice I'm going to try that double rod thing sometime it's kinda like tig welding origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Gary H. Lucas" wrote: > > Oh yeah that'll work! NOT! Cutting torches won't cut through two layers of > steel unless you are using a grossly oversized tip and don't care how it > looks. The oxygen jet turns sideways at the second plate and gouges out the > top plate something awful. There is a good use for that though. I cut > frozen nuts off without damaging the bolt, because the oxygen jet tends to > flow around the bolt instead of going through it. > > However, you CAN do this with a plasma torch. Plasma is 50,000 degrees not > 5,000. It just vaporizes everything it touches. > > My method of making the patch then scribing around it and cutting to the > scribed line is very easy to do and gives a nice fit. Now if do get a big > gap, you can fill it by sticking welding with two rods at the same time. > Take a welding rod and pound all the flux off. Weld with stick pointing > forward, like you were tig welding, instead of dragging backwards. Then feed > the rod into the puddle with your other hand. The extra metal allows you to > control the puddle. If it is getting too hot, feed the extra rod faster to > absorb the heat. I've filled 1/4" vertical gaps in one pass using this > method. > > Gary H. Lucas > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "RICHARD KOKEMOOR" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 2009 10:12 AM > Subject: [origamiboats] Re: butt welding ontop of existing plates > > > I can't recall where I read about this method, and I have never used it, but > supposedly the hot trick is to make a plate just greater than the size > needed to cover the hole, bend it as needed to fit flush, tack it in place > and then torch through *both* plates near the edge (avoiding frames and > stringers). Then the new plate is welded exactly in the space of the rem0ved > plate. > --- In origamiboats@ yahoogroups. com, Aaron Williams wrote: > > > > cptCrunch > >  Are you referring to a patch on top creating a lap joint or cutting out > > the old piece and but welding a new one? > > Getting a good fit is the most important part. Get the contour your new > > piece need before you cut out the old part that will help the fit. Lots of > > short tacks. and short welds while letting thing cool down in between. > > Try to make rounded corners and weld wrap opposite corners first. That is > > the way I would do it for myself. I am sure there are others with > > experience in that type of repair. > > Aaron > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > | 21645|21640|2009-12-10 01:56:37|wild_explorer|Re: What was used as a prototype for BS36 hull?|I am not trying to question Brent's genuine design. I like Brent's idea of simple building design. But he mentioned on this board, he made a model of the hull FIRST, and THEN was working on the pattern. As it was mentioned before, this "origami" technique allows to build limited variations of hull shapes. There are not so many sail boat's hull shapes which are "sea kind" ether. So, designers are trying to adopt proven hull shapes to their needs and not to screw up badly in the process. I do not see anything wrong in using proven (let say for centuries for example) hull shape in somebody's design. Brent, probably, sailed many sailboats and has his own preferences and definition of "sea kindness". I would like to know the list of the boats and what he likes in them. Thanks, Gary, it nice to know that Brent's design has good marine characteristics. Were you able to simulate them in CAD program? I am interested in the hull and superstructures at this moment. --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Gary H. Lucas" wrote: > > It's Brent's own design based on his own sailing experience. In other > words, an "Original". I've sailed on one, sails like it on rails, the most > easily steered boat I've ever been on. > > Gary H. Lucas | 21646|21624|2009-12-10 10:36:00|Grant Henry|Re: butt welding ontop of existing plates|Caution: the double rod thing is an old welders trick, it merely fills the gap but doesn't offer weld integrity. Integrity, depending upon how important the weld is, requires back grinding and re-welding on both sides. Grant From: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com [mailto:origamiboats@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of theboilerflue Sent: December 9, 2009 8:28 PM To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Subject: [origamiboats] Re: butt welding ontop of existing plates Nice I'm going to try that double rod thing sometime it's kinda like tig welding origamiboats@yahoogroups.com , "Gary H. Lucas" wrote: > > Oh yeah that'll work! NOT! Cutting torches won't cut through two layers of > steel unless you are using a grossly oversized tip and don't care how it > looks. The oxygen jet turns sideways at the second plate and gouges out the > top plate something awful. There is a good use for that though. I cut > frozen nuts off without damaging the bolt, because the oxygen jet tends to > flow around the bolt instead of going through it. > > However, you CAN do this with a plasma torch. Plasma is 50,000 degrees not > 5,000. It just vaporizes everything it touches. > > My method of making the patch then scribing around it and cutting to the > scribed line is very easy to do and gives a nice fit. Now if do get a big > gap, you can fill it by sticking welding with two rods at the same time. > Take a welding rod and pound all the flux off. Weld with stick pointing > forward, like you were tig welding, instead of dragging backwards. Then feed > the rod into the puddle with your other hand. The extra metal allows you to > control the puddle. If it is getting too hot, feed the extra rod faster to > absorb the heat. I've filled 1/4" vertical gaps in one pass using this > method. > > Gary H. Lucas > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "RICHARD KOKEMOOR" > To: > > Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 2009 10:12 AM > Subject: [origamiboats] Re: butt welding ontop of existing plates > > > I can't recall where I read about this method, and I have never used it, but > supposedly the hot trick is to make a plate just greater than the size > needed to cover the hole, bend it as needed to fit flush, tack it in place > and then torch through *both* plates near the edge (avoiding frames and > stringers). Then the new plate is welded exactly in the space of the rem0ved > plate. > --- In origamiboats@ yahoogroups. com, Aaron Williams wrote: > > > > cptCrunch > >  Are you referring to a patch on top creating a lap joint or cutting out > > the old piece and but welding a new one? > > Getting a good fit is the most important part. Get the contour your new > > piece need before you cut out the old part that will help the fit. Lots of > > short tacks. and short welds while letting thing cool down in between. > > Try to make rounded corners and weld wrap opposite corners first. That is > > the way I would do it for myself. I am sure there are others with > > experience in that type of repair. > > Aaron > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]| 21647|21640|2009-12-10 11:21:22|James Pronk|Re: What was used as a prototype for BS36 hull?|Were you able to simulate them in CAD program! He said it sails like it is on rails, the most easily steered boat I've ever been on. Who cares how it sails in a CAD program! James __________________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Canada Toolbar: Search from anywhere on the web, and bookmark your favourite sites. Download it now http://ca.toolbar.yahoo.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]| 21648|21635|2009-12-10 11:37:56|troller10|Re: Paint - Rust Bullet|Interesting comment. Do you have any first hand experience with the product? --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "theboilerflue" wrote: > > I would hope the manufacturer has a high opinion of his product... but I would count on that as a major selling point. > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "troller10" wrote: > > > > Hey everyone, > > > > Has anyone heard of a product called "Rust Bullet". The manufacturer has a high opinion of the product. I'm thinking of using it after sandblasting the inside of my 40 footer. > > > > Thanks > > > > B Hamilton > > > | 21649|21635|2009-12-10 14:31:49|akenai|Re: Paint - Rust Bullet|The undisputed fact is that Zink based primer coating is the best choice for steel in a marine enviroment. I you want to try Rust Bullet use it on something easy to replace or repair then let everyone know the results. Rustolium is proud of thier products.(Would you use it on your hull?) You have to be if you want to sell something. How else can you get people to by junk. Aaron --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "troller10" wrote: > > Interesting comment. > > Do you have any first hand experience with the product? > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "theboilerflue" wrote: > > > > I would hope the manufacturer has a high opinion of his product... but I would count on that as a major selling point. > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "troller10" wrote: > > > > > > Hey everyone, > > > > > > Has anyone heard of a product called "Rust Bullet". The manufacturer has a high opinion of the product. I'm thinking of using it after sandblasting the inside of my 40 footer. > > > > > > Thanks > > > > > > B Hamilton > > > > > > | 21650|21640|2009-12-10 19:46:30|cumorglas|Re: What was used as a prototype for BS36 hull?|i'll bet that when he said hull and superstructure he wanted to model interiors more than hydrodynamics. hydrodynamics are useful when predicting certain types of performance on a design you have yet to build. not so much with a design that has been in the real world. however playing with interior design even ona boat that has many examples is still useful. to the op. there are some 3d layouts in the photo section. somebody did the work to model it. maybe ask alex christie? --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, James Pronk wrote: > > Were you able to simulate them in CAD program! > He said it sails like it is on rails, the most easily steered boat I've ever been on. > Who cares how it sails in a CAD program! > James > > > > __________________________________________________________________ > Yahoo! Canada Toolbar: Search from anywhere on the web, and bookmark your favourite sites. Download it now > http://ca.toolbar.yahoo.com > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > | 21651|21635|2009-12-10 21:12:04|Paul Wilson|Re: Paint - Rust Bullet|My two cents.....some general comments re paint. There are lots of writings on zinc based primers and a lot of it says not to use it below the waterline so it depends on the application. Theory is that when scratched, it wicks out from under the paint, acting like a zinc anode and makes more paint come off than would without the zinc. With enough of a barrier coat to the copper antifouling and normally no scratches or chips, zinc below the waterline is rarely an issue. Inside or on the topsides, zinc primers are great and help prevent rust streaks when the paint gets chipped. I have used Rust Bullet and it seems to be pretty good stuff where I have used it which is in the bilge, around the engine and chips on deck. So far, it seems better than any of the other "rust killers" I have tried. Time will tell. POR15 is supposed to be really good stuff as well but in my experience Rust Bullet is easier to apply, cheaper and resistant to higher temps so possible to use on a diesel engine. I wouldn't experiment with it on large critical surfaces like under the waterline or under a foamed interior since I know conventional epoxies work fine and the consequences of a failure aren't worth it. I have been told that Rust Bullet has aluminum in it so if used under the waterline, it needs a barrier coat between it and copper based antifouling. I also worry about adhesion with it since it is a fairly smooth coating and think any topcoats like high build epoxies would be better with either a chemical or mechanical key. If painting the interior of a boat and foaming over, I would stick with convention/industrial high build epoxies (Amerlock 2 or 400 is a good one) or a coal tar epoxy, simply because I know they work. Coal tar epoxies are getting harder to find with new environmental rules. I used to buy and use International Intertuf which was a vinyl-tar based paint. It was a pretty good single pack paint until they took the tar out and marketed it as new and improved for the environment....after that, it was as useful as mudguards on a tortoise. Beware. A good rule of thumb is that if a paint is used on an oil rig in a splash zone it is pretty good stuff and usually relatively cheap compared to the "yachty" coatings normally marketed for the small boat owner. Rust Bullet/ POR15 or paints like them are more for touch-up with later topcoats, in my opinion. Cheers, Paul akenai wrote: > > The undisputed fact is that Zink based primer coating is the best > choice for steel in a marine enviroment. I you want to try Rust Bullet > use it on something easy to replace or repair then let everyone know > the results. > Rustolium is proud of thier products.(Would you use it on your hull?) > You have to be if you want to sell something. How else can you get > people to by junk. > Aaron > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > , "troller10" wrote: > > > > Interesting comment. > > > > Do you have any first hand experience with the product? > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > , "theboilerflue" wrote: > > > > > > I would hope the manufacturer has a high opinion of his product... > but I would count on that as a major selling point. > > > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > , "troller10" wrote: > > > > > > > > Hey everyone, > > > > > > > > Has anyone heard of a product called "Rust Bullet". The > manufacturer has a high opinion of the product. I'm thinking of using > it after sandblasting the inside of my 40 footer. > > > > > > > > Thanks > > > > > > > > B Hamilton > > > > > > > > > > > | 21652|21652|2009-12-10 22:52:11|jpronk1|Transmission|I was looking at a Hurth transmission. Model ZF45CW, Ratio A=1.00 B1.03 Suitable for high performance applications skiboats and waterjets. Would this work with my 1.5l VW diesel? James| 21653|21652|2009-12-10 22:59:36|James Pronk|Transmission|I will need to come up with a bell housing. Is there a good resource on line for transmissions? James __________________________________________________________________ The new Internet Explorer® 8 - Faster, safer, easier. Optimized for Yahoo! Get it Now for Free! at http://downloads.yahoo.com/ca/internetexplorer/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]| 21654|21652|2009-12-11 01:11:41|Aaron Williams|Re: Transmission|James Thanks go to Moonflower for passing on the link to me.   http://www.klassenengine.com/ZF_TWINDISC.html --- On Thu, 12/10/09, James Pronk wrote: From: James Pronk Subject: [origamiboats] Transmission To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, December 10, 2009, 6:59 PM   I will need to come up with a bell housing. Is there a good resource on line for transmissions? James ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _ The new Internet Explorer® 8 - Faster, safer, easier. Optimized for Yahoo! Get it Now for Free! at http://downloads. yahoo.com/ ca/internetexplo rer/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 21655|21640|2009-12-11 02:40:30|wild_explorer|Re: What was used as a prototype for BS36 hull?|I am NOT interested in an interior at this moment. I want to model hull up to "power away" stage. Hull, deck, wheelhouse, tanks, engine, rig. I might have my priorities for something (headroom for example). If it does not meet my needs, I can upscale it (go 40ft instead of 36ft, etc). So, all these "adjustments" might affect marine properties of the boat. It would be nice to have CAD model of Brent's stock design as start point. I do not want to become marine designer and I do not want to know HOW calculate marine properties. Modern CAD program do it for you. It would be foolish not to use it if it is readily available. It just much easier to work on a computer then with a real model (in cut-adjust-check-adjust-cut-etc approach). No questions, CAD program will not give all the answers. But it is very good tool to play with, and useful for Brent's design improvement. I think, that what this group about. Is in it? --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "cumorglas" wrote: > > i'll bet that when he said hull and superstructure he wanted to model interiors more than hydrodynamics. > hydrodynamics are useful when predicting certain types of performance on a design you have yet to build. not so much with a design that has been in the real world. > > however playing with interior design even ona boat that has many examples is still useful. > > to the op. > there are some 3d layouts in the photo section. somebody did the work to model it. maybe ask alex christie? | 21656|21635|2009-12-11 10:27:36|troller10|Re: Paint - Rust Bullet|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Paul Wilson wrote: > > My two cents.....some general comments re paint. > > There are lots of writings on zinc based primers and a lot of it says > not to use it below the waterline so it depends on the application. > Theory is that when scratched, it wicks out from under the paint, acting > like a zinc anode and makes more paint come off than would without the > zinc. With enough of a barrier coat to the copper antifouling and > normally no scratches or chips, zinc below the waterline is rarely an > issue. Inside or on the topsides, zinc primers are great and help > prevent rust streaks when the paint gets chipped. > > I have used Rust Bullet and it seems to be pretty good stuff where I > have used it which is in the bilge, around the engine and chips on deck. > So far, it seems better than any of the other "rust killers" I have > tried. Time will tell. POR15 is supposed to be really good stuff as well > but in my experience Rust Bullet is easier to apply, cheaper and > resistant to higher temps so possible to use on a diesel engine. I > wouldn't experiment with it on large critical surfaces like under the > waterline or under a foamed interior since I know conventional epoxies > work fine and the consequences of a failure aren't worth it. I have been > told that Rust Bullet has aluminum in it so if used under the waterline, > it needs a barrier coat between it and copper based antifouling. I also > worry about adhesion with it since it is a fairly smooth coating and > think any topcoats like high build epoxies would be better with either a > chemical or mechanical key. > > If painting the interior of a boat and foaming over, I would stick with > convention/industrial high build epoxies (Amerlock 2 or 400 is a good > one) or a coal tar epoxy, simply because I know they work. Coal tar > epoxies are getting harder to find with new environmental rules. I used > to buy and use International Intertuf which was a vinyl-tar based paint. > It was a pretty good single pack paint until they took the tar out and > marketed it as new and improved for the environment....after that, it > was as useful as mudguards on a tortoise. Beware. A good rule of thumb > is that if a paint is used on an oil rig in a splash zone it is pretty > good stuff and usually relatively cheap compared to the "yachty" > coatings normally marketed for the small boat owner. > > Rust Bullet/ POR15 or paints like them are more for touch-up with later > topcoats, in my opinion. > > Cheers, Paul > > akenai wrote: > > > > The undisputed fact is that Zink based primer coating is the best > > choice for steel in a marine enviroment. I you want to try Rust Bullet > > use it on something easy to replace or repair then let everyone know > > the results. > > Rustolium is proud of thier products.(Would you use it on your hull?) > > You have to be if you want to sell something. How else can you get > > people to by junk. > > Aaron > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > , "troller10" wrote: > > > > > > Interesting comment. > > > > > > Do you have any first hand experience with the product? > > > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > , "theboilerflue" wrote: > > > > > > > > I would hope the manufacturer has a high opinion of his product... > > but I would count on that as a major selling point. > > > > > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > , "troller10" wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Hey everyone, > > > > > > > > > > Has anyone heard of a product called "Rust Bullet". The > > manufacturer has a high opinion of the product. I'm thinking of using > > it after sandblasting the inside of my 40 footer. > > > > > > > > > > Thanks > > > > > > > > > > B Hamilton > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Paul, Thanks for the very thoughtful response. I think I'll stick with the Ameron Dimetcote 203. It's just that mixing less than full batches of the stuff can be tricky.| 21657|21635|2009-12-11 10:46:49|Alan H. Boucher|Re: Paint - Rust Bullet|I can't verify anything on boats ,but experience on cars is that the POR 15 does not work well over time on the chassis in salt prone areas. The slightest lift or holiday in the paint which allows water in causes the rust to work its way under the paint. The solid paint layer serves to keep the rusting area from drying out. The same holds for the high build rubberized undercoating that Mercedes uses. Capillary action is not your friend in this case. Al Boucher troller10 wrote: > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > , Paul Wilson wrote: > > > > My two cents.....some general comments re paint. > > > > There are lots of writings on zinc based primers and a lot of it says > > not to use it below the waterline so it depends on the application. > > Theory is that when scratched, it wicks out from under the paint, > acting > > like a zinc anode and makes more paint come off than would without the > > zinc. With enough of a barrier coat to the copper antifouling and > > normally no scratches or chips, zinc below the waterline is rarely an > > issue. Inside or on the topsides, zinc primers are great and help > > prevent rust streaks when the paint gets chipped. > > > > I have used Rust Bullet and it seems to be pretty good stuff where I > > have used it which is in the bilge, around the engine and chips on > deck. > > So far, it seems better than any of the other "rust killers" I have > > tried. Time will tell. POR15 is supposed to be really good stuff as > well > > but in my experience Rust Bullet is easier to apply, cheaper and > > resistant to higher temps so possible to use on a diesel engine. I > > wouldn't experiment with it on large critical surfaces like under the > > waterline or under a foamed interior since I know conventional epoxies > > work fine and the consequences of a failure aren't worth it. I have > been > > told that Rust Bullet has aluminum in it so if used under the > waterline, > > it needs a barrier coat between it and copper based antifouling. I also > > worry about adhesion with it since it is a fairly smooth coating and > > think any topcoats like high build epoxies would be better with > either a > > chemical or mechanical key. > > > > If painting the interior of a boat and foaming over, I would stick with > > convention/industrial high build epoxies (Amerlock 2 or 400 is a good > > one) or a coal tar epoxy, simply because I know they work. Coal tar > > epoxies are getting harder to find with new environmental rules. I used > > to buy and use International Intertuf which was a vinyl-tar based > paint. > > It was a pretty good single pack paint until they took the tar out and > > marketed it as new and improved for the environment....after that, it > > was as useful as mudguards on a tortoise. Beware. A good rule of thumb > > is that if a paint is used on an oil rig in a splash zone it is pretty > > good stuff and usually relatively cheap compared to the "yachty" > > coatings normally marketed for the small boat owner. > > > > Rust Bullet/ POR15 or paints like them are more for touch-up with later > > topcoats, in my opinion. > > > > Cheers, Paul > > > > akenai wrote: > > > > > > The undisputed fact is that Zink based primer coating is the best > > > choice for steel in a marine enviroment. I you want to try Rust > Bullet > > > use it on something easy to replace or repair then let everyone know > > > the results. > > > Rustolium is proud of thier products.(Would you use it on your hull?) > > > You have to be if you want to sell something. How else can you get > > > people to by junk. > > > Aaron > > > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > > > , "troller10" wrote: > > > > > > > > Interesting comment. > > > > > > > > Do you have any first hand experience with the product? > > > > > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > > > , "theboilerflue" > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > I would hope the manufacturer has a high opinion of his > product... > > > but I would count on that as a major selling point. > > > > > > > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > > > , "troller10" wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Hey everyone, > > > > > > > > > > > > Has anyone heard of a product called "Rust Bullet". The > > > manufacturer has a high opinion of the product. I'm thinking of using > > > it after sandblasting the inside of my 40 footer. > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks > > > > > > > > > > > > B Hamilton > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Paul, > > Thanks for the very thoughtful response. I think I'll stick with the > Ameron Dimetcote 203. It's just that mixing less than full batches of > the stuff can be tricky. > > | 21658|21640|2009-12-11 13:10:09|bornlucky55|Re: What was used as a prototype for BS36 hull?|You are placing way too much faith and reliance on a CAD modelling solution. Many aspects of a hull's performance do not "scale" accurately. It is not a simple thing to model performance, which is why tank testing is done on broader projects... even then it is full of variables. If you don't wish to learn how to calculate "marine properties" then for God's sake don't try to be your own designer. You will be forced to rely on sketchy data that you don't even understand. The plans and the owner feedback, even on such subjects as stretching the project or several other popular alterations, should give you a fair bit of confidence. Michael > I am NOT interested in an interior at this moment. I want to model hull up to "power away" stage. Hull, deck, wheelhouse, tanks, engine, rig. I might have my priorities for something (headroom for example). If it does not meet my needs, I can upscale it (go 40ft instead of 36ft, etc). So, all these "adjustments" might affect marine properties of the boat. > > It would be nice to have CAD model of Brent's stock design as start point. > > I do not want to become marine designer and I do not want to know HOW calculate marine properties. Modern CAD program do it for you. It would be foolish not to use it if it is readily available. It just much easier to work on a computer then with a real model (in cut-adjust-check-adjust-cut-etc approach). > > No questions, CAD program will not give all the answers. But it is very good tool to play with, and useful for Brent's design improvement. I think, that what this group about. Is in it? > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "cumorglas" wrote: > > > > i'll bet that when he said hull and superstructure he wanted to model interiors more than hydrodynamics. > > hydrodynamics are useful when predicting certain types of performance on a design you have yet to build. not so much with a design that has been in the real world. > > > > however playing with interior design even ona boat that has many examples is still useful. > > > > to the op. > > there are some 3d layouts in the photo section. somebody did the work to model it. maybe ask alex christie? > | 21659|16293|2009-12-11 15:25:38|boatwayupnorth|Re: Chinese Welders, bought this one.|Hi Seer, Just bought me a Chinese made inverter stick welder. I was wondering - did you do some serious work with your Chinese welder/cutter? How is it holding up? Walter --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "seeratlas" wrote: > > Ok, picked up the welder today. wired in a plug and hooked it up. > First, the plasma cutter :) Well, it cut thru a railroad spike in > about 2 secs. > Hooked up the arc welder, put it back together. That was all just to > check it out and make sure it ran before I paid for it. > Unit seems to be pretty well built. He had one opened up, LOT"S of > computer stuff in there. According to seller, who is a welder himself, > the biggest problem is DOA's caused by shippers drop kicking the > things and breaking or shorting the circuit boards. > 1 year warranty thru Mitech USA. I'll let you know but so far, i'm > thinking "neat" :) Oh, VERY quiet and tons of adjustments to learn how > to use. > > seer > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "seeratlas" wrote: > > > > > http://mitech.manufacturer.globalsources.com/si/6008821233080/pdtl/Welding-machine/1003100441/Multifunction-Welding-Machine.htm > > > > Going to pick it up this weekend will let you know how it looks. > > > > seer > > > | 21660|21640|2009-12-11 18:35:07|brentswain38|Re: What was used as a prototype for BS36 hull?|I liked the beam and deadrise of my first boat a 36 ft pipe dream , but the hull was grossly unbalanced and had zero directional stability. I designed the 36 from scratch , using only the basic beam and deadrise of my first boat . When one draws up a set of lines, it usually takes many days of tweaking the lines to get the displacement , prismatic coeficient, centre of buoyancy etc etc all the way one wants. When I drew up the lines for the 36 , then did the calculations, the displacement , centre of buoyancy, prismatic coeficcient, etc were all exactly what I wanted. I couldn't believe it, so I did the calculations several times over and it was the same as the first try. When I heeled the hull lines to check out for hull balance , it was dead on. Tried the calculationas again and again, it turned out to be right on. I thought" That hull shape has horseshoes up her ass." Turned out to be true. --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "wild_explorer" wrote: > > I could not find anything in Brent's book about it. > > What sailboat's design/model was used as a prototype for BS36 hull? Anybody has any ideas? > | 21661|21631|2009-12-11 18:39:28|brentswain38|Re: Main Sail|Yes it would work well. Most 36 footers today are going for 46 to 47 ft masts . 48 would be workable, altho reducing the luff of a sail is no big deal. --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "jpronk1" wrote: > > Would this sail work for a BS 36? > My plans are at the shop and I was hoping someone would know. > Thank you, > James > Foot: 14 ' > Luff: 43.6' > Leech: 45' > | 21662|21624|2009-12-11 18:41:28|brentswain38|Re: butt welding ontop of existing plates|I'd cut out the thin stuff with zip cuts, then weld the plate in flush with a stick welder. That way there are no voids to worry about. --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "sae140" wrote: > > I agree with your comments about the use of thin MIG wire, but it was his METHOD of fitting curved plates which I thought might be of interest, rather than his dubious welding skills. > Personally I'd always cut with zip disks wherever possible, and use a stick welder. > Also - rather then relying on short tangs to support the wedges, I'd rather run a length of angle right across the hole. > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Gary H. Lucas" wrote: > > > > Did you catch what he did wrong with the Mig welder? He mentions his welds > > cracking from lack of penetration. Then he fits the plates with a gap to > > get better penetration. That's a good idea. However, I'll bet you $100 > > he's using 0.035" welding wire or smaller! Yeah, yeah I know, in the hands > > of a REAL expert you can get perfect welds with 0.035". But how long before > > this guy will be that good? Better to just move up to 0.045" wire and get > > good penetration all the time. Did I mention how much faster your welding > > would get done? > > > > Gary H. Lucas > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "sae140" > > To: > > Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 2009 6:18 PM > > Subject: [origamiboats] Re: butt welding ontop of existing plates > > > > > > Been checking around to see what others do .... > > > > Nothing in Tom Colvin's 'Steel Boatbuilding', which surprises me. > > > > Interesting webpage at: http://www.thecoastalpassage.com/patchsteel.html > > showing a method of fitting a simple curved plate using wedges. > > > > Even better are the following 2 pages which show very graphically the reason > > why a steel hull needs to be painted properly at the time of construction, > > and why teak should NEVER be layed onto a steel deck. > > 'nuff to make a grown man cry .... > > http://www.thecoastalpassage.com/rust-paint.html > > http://www.thecoastalpassage.com/rust.html > > > | 21663|21652|2009-12-11 18:47:37|brentswain38|Re: Transmission|A hurth 150 is a far tougher trany than a 100 . Best go for at least the 150. They tend to eat their dipsticks when they unscrew and go thru the gears ,( queer thing for a tranny to do) so wrap a single strand from 1/4 inch ss 1x19 rigging wire thru the hole in the middle of the 150 , then bend the end 90 degrees and put it thru the vent hole in the dipstick, to to keep it from unscrewing. --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "jpronk1" wrote: > > I was looking at a Hurth transmission. > Model ZF45CW, Ratio A=1.00 B1.03 > Suitable for high performance applications skiboats and waterjets. > Would this work with my 1.5l VW diesel? > James > | 21664|21652|2009-12-11 22:13:38|theboilerflue|Re: Transmission|I built a bed for my engine, the transmission bolted to that and so I was able to forgo the need for a proper bell housing/transmission attachment I'm using a Hurth 100 on a Yanmar 22hp three cylinder. It's not the marine Yanmar version and so didn't have that type of bell housing it was designed for a John Deere 950 lawn tractor. --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, James Pronk wrote: > > I will need to come up with a bell housing. > Is there a good resource on line for transmissions? > James > > > __________________________________________________________________ > The new Internet Explorer® 8 - Faster, safer, easier. Optimized for Yahoo! Get it Now for Free! at http://downloads.yahoo.com/ca/internetexplorer/ > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > | 21665|21635|2009-12-11 22:15:30|theboilerflue|Re: Paint - Rust Bullet|sorry I meant "wouldn't count on that as a major selling point" --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "troller10" wrote: > > Interesting comment. > > Do you have any first hand experience with the product? > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "theboilerflue" wrote: > > > > I would hope the manufacturer has a high opinion of his product... but I would count on that as a major selling point. > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "troller10" wrote: > > > > > > Hey everyone, > > > > > > Has anyone heard of a product called "Rust Bullet". The manufacturer has a high opinion of the product. I'm thinking of using it after sandblasting the inside of my 40 footer. > > > > > > Thanks > > > > > > B Hamilton > > > > > > | 21666|21640|2009-12-11 22:19:58|theboilerflue|Re: What was used as a prototype for BS36 hull?|How tall are you? I'm as I said 6'6" and i have room to stand up straight with 1/2" to spare in the main cabin, I should have dropped the top of the fuel tank an inch or two but at the time I just wanted to get the boat in the water and re doing the tank seemed like moving in the wrong direction, maybe I'll do it at sometime down the road. --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "wild_explorer" wrote: > > > > > > > > > > I am NOT interested in an interior at this moment. I want to model hull up to "power away" stage. Hull, deck, wheelhouse, tanks, engine, rig. I might have my priorities for something (headroom for example). If it does not meet my needs, I can upscale it (go 40ft instead of 36ft, etc). So, all these "adjustments" might affect marine properties of the boat. > > It would be nice to have CAD model of Brent's stock design as start point. > > I do not want to become marine designer and I do not want to know HOW calculate marine properties. Modern CAD program do it for you. It would be foolish not to use it if it is readily available. It just much easier to work on a computer then with a real model (in cut-adjust-check-adjust-cut-etc approach). > > No questions, CAD program will not give all the answers. But it is very good tool to play with, and useful for Brent's design improvement. I think, that what this group about. Is in it? > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "cumorglas" wrote: > > > > i'll bet that when he said hull and superstructure he wanted to model interiors more than hydrodynamics. > > hydrodynamics are useful when predicting certain types of performance on a design you have yet to build. not so much with a design that has been in the real world. > > > > however playing with interior design even ona boat that has many examples is still useful. > > > > to the op. > > there are some 3d layouts in the photo section. somebody did the work to model it. maybe ask alex christie? > | 21667|21652|2009-12-12 18:31:53|brentswain38|Re: Transmission|Winston Bushnell always welds up his own bell housing then sends it and the engine to a machinist, who does the machining on it to make a match , for $200. I welded up the aluminium bell hosuing for my last engine. One can machine the sides, by bolting the tranny on and making up a compass cutter to bolt to the tranny shaft with a router on the end to machine the aluminiuim bell housing outside edge. --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "theboilerflue" wrote: > > I built a bed for my engine, the transmission bolted to that and so I was able to forgo the need for a proper bell housing/transmission attachment I'm using a Hurth 100 on a Yanmar 22hp three cylinder. It's not the marine Yanmar version and so didn't have that type of bell housing it was designed for a John Deere 950 lawn tractor. > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, James Pronk wrote: > > > > I will need to come up with a bell housing. > > Is there a good resource on line for transmissions? > > James > > > > > > __________________________________________________________________ > > The new Internet Explorer® 8 - Faster, safer, easier. Optimized for Yahoo! Get it Now for Free! at http://downloads.yahoo.com/ca/internetexplorer/ > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > | 21668|21652|2009-12-12 22:05:30|theboilerflue|Re: Transmission|hmm thanks Brent... well said I'll have to watch the dipstick on my hurth from now on. --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "brentswain38" wrote: > > A hurth 150 is a far tougher trany than a 100 . Best go for at least the 150. They tend to eat their dipsticks when they unscrew and go thru the gears ,( queer thing for a tranny to do) so wrap a single strand from 1/4 inch ss 1x19 rigging wire thru the hole in the middle of the 150 , then bend the end 90 degrees and put it thru the vent hole in the dipstick, to to keep it from unscrewing. > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "jpronk1" wrote: > > > > I was looking at a Hurth transmission. > > Model ZF45CW, Ratio A=1.00 B1.03 > > Suitable for high performance applications skiboats and waterjets. > > Would this work with my 1.5l VW diesel? > > James > > > | 21669|22|2009-12-13 13:57:58|origamiboats@yahoogroups.com|New file uploaded to origamiboats |Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the origamiboats group. File : /Imagiro Boats./265Rpic1.jpg Uploaded by : yvesmariedetanton Description : 265 Imagiro 45. Custom. You can access this file at the URL: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/files/Imagiro%20Boats./265Rpic1.jpg To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit: http://help.yahoo.com/l/us/yahoo/groups/original/members/forms/general.htmlfiles Regards, yvesmariedetanton | 21670|22|2009-12-13 18:38:00|aaron riis|Re: carbon build up|I just bought a 30 year old yanmar 2qm 15.  It looks like the reason that the previous owner got rid of it is the wet exhaust not only corroded out the water exhaust mixer,(is that what you call it) but caused such a build up of carbon that it effectively blocked the exhaust and stopped the engine.  It makes sense to me that right where it cools, carbon would build up, I have heard stories that in the arctic, diesel trucks that drive around at low speeds have such a problem with carbon build up that companies pay guys to run them hard to burn off the carbon.  I haven't tried to start it up yet, but this seems like a good reason to go with a dry exhaust.    I like this engine, especially because it has a hand crank start, i would rather go with this one  than to bolt a new engine on to the gear.  Does anyone have any experience with carbon build up? can it cause valve dammage, or just gum them up enough to not work?    -Aaron --- On Sun, 12/13/09, origamiboats@yahoogroups.com wrote: From: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Subject: [origamiboats] New file uploaded to origamiboats To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Received: Sunday, December 13, 2009, 10:57 AM   Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the origamiboats group. File : /Imagiro Boats./265Rpic1. jpg Uploaded by : yvesmariedetanton Description : 265 Imagiro 45. Custom. You can access this file at the URL: http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/origamiboa ts/files/ Imagiro%20Boats. /265Rpic1. jpg To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit: http://help. yahoo.com/ l/us/yahoo/ groups/original/ members/forms/ general.htmlfile s Regards, yvesmariedetanton __________________________________________________________________ Make your browsing faster, safer, and easier with the new Internet Explorer® 8. Optimized for Yahoo! Get it Now for Free! at http://downloads.yahoo.com/ca/internetexplorer/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 21671|21640|2009-12-13 21:53:16|wild_explorer|Re: What was used as a prototype for BS36 hull?|The tallest member of my family is 6'3" (at this time) + boots sole. So I need at least 6'4"+1"+2-3"(extra). I am looking for about 6'8" headroom in main cabin. --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "theboilerflue" wrote: > > How tall are you? I'm as I said 6'6" and i have room to stand up straight with 1/2" to spare in the main cabin, I should have dropped the top of the fuel tank an inch or two but at the time I just wanted to get the boat in the water and re doing the tank seemed like moving in the wrong direction, maybe I'll do it at sometime down the road. > | 21672|21640|2009-12-13 22:01:48|wild_explorer|Re: What was used as a prototype for BS36 hull?|Brent, Impressive! It was, probably, Eureka. Is BS40 up-scaled version of BS36? --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "brentswain38" wrote: > > > I liked the beam and deadrise of my first boat a 36 ft pipe dream , but the hull was grossly unbalanced and had zero directional stability. I designed the 36 from scratch , using only the basic beam and deadrise of my first boat . When one draws up a set of lines, it usually takes many days of tweaking the lines to get the displacement , prismatic coeficient, centre of buoyancy etc etc all the way one wants. When I drew up the lines for the 36 , then did the calculations, the displacement , centre of buoyancy, prismatic coeficcient, etc were all exactly what I wanted. I couldn't believe it, so I did the calculations several times over and it was the same as the first try. > When I heeled the hull lines to check out for hull balance , it was dead on. Tried the calculationas again and again, it turned out to be right on. > I thought" That hull shape has horseshoes up her ass." Turned out to be true. | 21673|22|2009-12-13 22:14:50|wild_explorer|Re: carbon build up|Engines need to be run hard to prevent carbon buildup. 10-15 min engine running once in a while will just cause extra carbon buildup. Disassemble engine, clean carbon buildup, clean injectors, check for stuck rings in pistons. You can put "Mystery" oil in the cylinder after removing injectors. Keep oil in cylinders for several days (or until it go through). It might unfreeze rings. Or you can plug openings and fill engine with kerosene. Drain oil or kerosene later. Do not forget to put engine back together after disassembling. Enjoy! --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, aaron riis wrote: > > I just bought a 30 year old yanmar 2qm 15.  It looks like the reason that the previous owner got rid of it is the wet exhaust not only corroded out the water exhaust mixer,(is that what you call it) but caused such a build up of carbon that it effectively blocked the exhaust and stopped the engine.  It makes sense to me that right where it cools, carbon would build up, I have heard stories that in the arctic, diesel trucks that drive around at low speeds have such a problem with carbon build up that companies pay guys to run them hard to burn off the carbon.  I haven't tried to start it up yet, but this seems like a good reason to go with a dry exhaust.    I like this engine, especially because it has a hand crank start, i would rather go with this one  than to bolt a new engine on to the gear.  Does anyone have any experience with carbon build up? can it cause valve dammage, or just gum them up enough to not work?    -Aaron | 21674|21640|2009-12-14 01:27:16|brentswain38|Re: What was used as a prototype for BS36 hull?|Yes, the 40 is a scaled up version of the 36 --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "wild_explorer" wrote: > > Brent, > > Impressive! It was, probably, Eureka. > > Is BS40 up-scaled version of BS36? > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "brentswain38" wrote: > > > > > > I liked the beam and deadrise of my first boat a 36 ft pipe dream , but the hull was grossly unbalanced and had zero directional stability. I designed the 36 from scratch , using only the basic beam and deadrise of my first boat . When one draws up a set of lines, it usually takes many days of tweaking the lines to get the displacement , prismatic coeficient, centre of buoyancy etc etc all the way one wants. When I drew up the lines for the 36 , then did the calculations, the displacement , centre of buoyancy, prismatic coeficcient, etc were all exactly what I wanted. I couldn't believe it, so I did the calculations several times over and it was the same as the first try. > > When I heeled the hull lines to check out for hull balance , it was dead on. Tried the calculationas again and again, it turned out to be right on. > > I thought" That hull shape has horseshoes up her ass." Turned out to be true. > | 21675|21640|2009-12-14 01:27:35|brentswain38|Re: What was used as a prototype for BS36 hull?|While you could get 6 ft 8 by dropping the floor enough and accepting a narrower floor, you need 6 ft 8 like a chicken needs Colonel Saunders. --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "wild_explorer" wrote: > > The tallest member of my family is 6'3" (at this time) + boots sole. So I need at least 6'4"+1"+2-3"(extra). I am looking for about 6'8" headroom in main cabin. > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "theboilerflue" wrote: > > > > How tall are you? I'm as I said 6'6" and i have room to stand up straight with 1/2" to spare in the main cabin, I should have dropped the top of the fuel tank an inch or two but at the time I just wanted to get the boat in the water and re doing the tank seemed like moving in the wrong direction, maybe I'll do it at sometime down the road. > > > | 21677|21677|2009-12-14 11:07:22|troller10|Boom height for 40 footer|Am thinking of fabricating a boom roller. What should be the boom height? Thanks, Brien H| 21678|21640|2009-12-14 13:28:12|wild_explorer|Re: Headroom of BS36 and BS40?|Just checked it again. Yep! 6'8" is a headroom I am looking for. I do understand, that headroom on BS36 is NOT a design limitation, but limited only by availability of hull's plate width (8x**ft). Standard headroom of BS36 will be enough for most people. It is, probably, possible to raise main cabin and wheelhouse to get desired headroom. Will it really affect boat stability or look so much? If I am going to build a boat, I would like to make it comfortable FOR ME. I might not be sure about many things on a boat, but I am sure about the headroom I want on it. Brent, if standard headroom of BS36 is around 6'6", what is designed (standard) headroom of BS40? --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "brentswain38" wrote: > > While you could get 6 ft 8 by dropping the floor enough and accepting a narrower floor, you need 6 ft 8 like a chicken needs Colonel Saunders. > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "wild_explorer" wrote: > > > > The tallest member of my family is 6'3" (at this time) + boots sole. So I need at least 6'4"+1"+2-3"(extra). I am looking for about 6'8" headroom in main cabin. | 21679|21640|2009-12-14 13:44:49|Carl Anderson|Re: Headroom of BS36 and BS40?|Evan routinely puts the cabin top up an additional 1-1/2" from the stock plan and that is what he did on MOM. Now the pilothouse was really something of an expansion! Carl sv-mom.com wild_explorer wrote: > > > Just checked it again. Yep! 6'8" is a headroom I am looking for. > > I do understand, that headroom on BS36 is NOT a design limitation, but > limited only by availability of hull's plate width (8x**ft). Standard > headroom of BS36 will be enough for most people. It is, probably, > possible to raise main cabin and wheelhouse to get desired headroom. > Will it really affect boat stability or look so much? > > If I am going to build a boat, I would like to make it comfortable FOR > ME. I might not be sure about many things on a boat, but I am sure about > the headroom I want on it. > > Brent, if standard headroom of BS36 is around 6'6", what is designed > (standard) headroom of BS40? > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > , "brentswain38" > wrote: > > > > While you could get 6 ft 8 by dropping the floor enough and accepting > a narrower floor, you need 6 ft 8 like a chicken needs Colonel Saunders. > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > , "wild_explorer" > wrote: > > > > > > The tallest member of my family is 6'3" (at this time) + boots > sole. So I need at least 6'4"+1"+2-3"(extra). I am looking for about > 6'8" headroom in main cabin. > > | 21680|21640|2009-12-14 14:22:56|brentswain38|Re: Headroom of BS36 and BS40?|Raising the cabinsides is a detraction on aesthetics , increasing the camber is not. Increasing the camber does nothing to reduce ultimate stability , in fact it improves ultimate stability when capsized. I usually make the headroom on a 36, 6ft 2 inches to give me a huge amount of tankage under the floor. You can drop the floor to get 6 ft 8 inches , at the cost of less tankage under the floor, which means you have to use other far more usefull storage space for tankage. On the 40 you can have 7 ft headroom without raising anything. In the wheelhouse you can easily have 8 ft headroom if you want, without raising anything. There is a huge amount of space under the floor. The problem is if you drop the wheelhouse floor , you will have to stand on something to see out of the windows ( kinda dangerous in a rough sea).This can also be the case in the trunk cabin. --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "wild_explorer" wrote: > > Just checked it again. Yep! 6'8" is a headroom I am looking for. > > I do understand, that headroom on BS36 is NOT a design limitation, but limited only by availability of hull's plate width (8x**ft). Standard headroom of BS36 will be enough for most people. It is, probably, possible to raise main cabin and wheelhouse to get desired headroom. Will it really affect boat stability or look so much? > > If I am going to build a boat, I would like to make it comfortable FOR ME. I might not be sure about many things on a boat, but I am sure about the headroom I want on it. > > Brent, if standard headroom of BS36 is around 6'6", what is designed (standard) headroom of BS40? > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "brentswain38" wrote: > > > > While you could get 6 ft 8 by dropping the floor enough and accepting a narrower floor, you need 6 ft 8 like a chicken needs Colonel Saunders. > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "wild_explorer" wrote: > > > > > > The tallest member of my family is 6'3" (at this time) + boots sole. So I need at least 6'4"+1"+2-3"(extra). I am looking for about 6'8" headroom in main cabin. > | 21681|21677|2009-12-14 14:33:26|brentswain38|Re: Boom height for 40 footer|I put the boom 30 inches off the deck , a comfortable working height while reefing --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "troller10" wrote: > > Am thinking of fabricating a boom roller. > > What should be the boom height? > > Thanks, > > Brien H > | 21682|21640|2009-12-14 16:11:26|wild_explorer|Re: BS36 information|Carl, It was your Photo CD which made me seriously think about building Brent's boat. SV M.O.M. looks different then many sailboats, but it does look good. This was MY way to consider building Brent's boat: - Looking on Internet for different steel sailboat's design - Start reading Origamiboats group. It has lot of useful information, but it takes too long (messages are not divided on sections, poor search function, etc). I read it message by message, divide it in groups and do indexing by myself. - Ordered Photo CD from Carl's website sv-mom.com It is "must to see" pictures guide if you want to get an idea about building process of Brent's boat - Got interested - Ordered Alex's DVD (video guide) and Brent's book (lot of useful information) -Doing deeper research at this time Thanks again Carl for your Photo CD! --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Carl Anderson wrote: > > Evan routinely puts the cabin top up an additional 1-1/2" from the stock > plan and that is what he did on MOM. Now the pilothouse was really > something of an expansion! > > Carl > sv-mom.com | 21683|21640|2009-12-14 16:24:32|wild_explorer|Re: Headroom of BS36 and BS40?|Thanks, Brent! Well... I need to compromise on something at this case... If raising the hull's height is not the option, I can see only one solution - to raise the sides of the cabin and the wheelhouse on BS36. I do not have your plans (not ready to buy it yet), but I assume you placed the engine under wheelhouse - this will give a reference for wheelhouse floor (on the top of engine compartment). Dropping the floor in the cabin does not look like attractive solution for me, because it will reduce tankage and floor width. May be BS40 would be a better choice for me. So, does BS40 have 7' headroom in the cabin without dropping the floor? Is the hull of BS40 taller than BS36? --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "brentswain38" wrote: > > Raising the cabinsides is a detraction on aesthetics , increasing the camber is not. Increasing the camber does nothing to reduce ultimate stability , in fact it improves ultimate stability when capsized. I usually make the headroom on a 36, 6ft 2 inches to give me a huge amount of tankage under the floor. You can drop the floor to get 6 ft 8 inches , at the cost of less tankage under the floor, which means you have to use other far more usefull storage space for tankage. On the 40 you can have 7 ft headroom without raising anything. > In the wheelhouse you can easily have 8 ft headroom if you want, without raising anything. There is a huge amount of space under the floor. The problem is if you drop the wheelhouse floor , you will have to stand on something to see out of the windows ( kinda dangerous in a rough sea).This can also be the case in the trunk cabin. | 21684|21640|2009-12-14 16:33:26|John Fisher|Re: Headroom of BS36 and BS40?|Having looked at a few 36's I felt they were a bit tight on head room for me (6'3" tall). Probably would have bought alex's if there was 6'5" or 6'6" head room. Will build a 40 if I do as it has a lot more room. Nothing worse that bumping into things or walking around stooped over like most of the production boats. John On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 2:16 PM, wild_explorer wrote: > > > Thanks, Brent! > > Well... I need to compromise on something at this case... > > If raising the hull's height is not the option, I can see only one solution > - to raise the sides of the cabin and the wheelhouse on BS36. > > I do not have your plans (not ready to buy it yet), but I assume you placed > the engine under wheelhouse - this will give a reference for wheelhouse > floor (on the top of engine compartment). Dropping the floor in the cabin > does not look like attractive solution for me, because it will reduce > tankage and floor width. > > May be BS40 would be a better choice for me. So, does BS40 have 7' headroom > in the cabin without dropping the floor? Is the hull of BS40 taller than > BS36? > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com , > "brentswain38" wrote: > > > > Raising the cabinsides is a detraction on aesthetics , increasing the > camber is not. Increasing the camber does nothing to reduce ultimate > stability , in fact it improves ultimate stability when capsized. I usually > make the headroom on a 36, 6ft 2 inches to give me a huge amount of tankage > under the floor. You can drop the floor to get 6 ft 8 inches , at the cost > of less tankage under the floor, which means you have to use other far more > usefull storage space for tankage. On the 40 you can have 7 ft headroom > without raising anything. > > In the wheelhouse you can easily have 8 ft headroom if you want, without > raising anything. There is a huge amount of space under the floor. The > problem is if you drop the wheelhouse floor , you will have to stand on > something to see out of the windows ( kinda dangerous in a rough sea).This > can also be the case in the trunk cabin. > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 21685|21640|2009-12-14 16:34:51|Paul Wilson|Re: Headroom of BS36 and BS40?|>>>>Yep! 6'8" is a headroom I am looking for. In my opinion, if you really want that much headroom, I would go for the 40 footer. Lowering the cabin sole so much in the 36 would make it too narrow. You want headroom where you stand (for instance in the galley), not just in the center of the boat. Cheers, Paul| 21686|21640|2009-12-14 18:41:21|Norm Moore|Re: Headroom of BS36 and BS40?|Carl,  I'm just curious.  How tall is your pilothouse above the side decks on MOM? Norm Moore 559-645-5314 --- On Mon, 12/14/09, Carl Anderson wrote: From: Carl Anderson Subject: Re: [origamiboats] Re: Headroom of BS36 and BS40? To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, December 14, 2009, 10:40 AM Evan routinely puts the cabin top up an additional 1-1/2" from the stock plan and that is what he did on MOM.  Now the pilothouse was really something of an expansion! Carl sv-mom.com wild_explorer wrote: >  > > Just checked it again. Yep! 6'8" is a headroom I am looking for. > > I do understand, that headroom on BS36 is NOT a design limitation, but > limited only by availability of hull's plate width (8x**ft). Standard > headroom of BS36 will be enough for most people. It is, probably, > possible to raise main cabin and wheelhouse to get desired headroom. > Will it really affect boat stability or look so much? > > If I am going to build a boat, I would like to make it comfortable FOR > ME. I might not be sure about many things on a boat, but I am sure about > the headroom I want on it. > > Brent, if standard headroom of BS36 is around 6'6", what is designed > (standard) headroom of BS40? > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > , "brentswain38" > wrote: >  > >  > While you could get 6 ft 8 by dropping the floor enough and accepting > a narrower floor, you need 6 ft 8 like a chicken needs Colonel Saunders. >  > >  > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > , "wild_explorer" > wrote: >  > > >  > > The tallest member of my family is 6'3" (at this time) + boots > sole. So I need at least 6'4"+1"+2-3"(extra). I am looking for about > 6'8" headroom in main cabin. > > ------------------------------------ To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.comYahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 21687|21640|2009-12-14 21:21:47|Carl Anderson|Re: Headroom of BS36 and BS40?|Norm, The aft end of the pilothouse is 30" above the deck and it slopes to about 24" at the forward end. This is so the rain catchment idea that Brent has in the design will drain properly to the forward end. Carl Norm Moore wrote: > > > Carl, I'm just curious. How tall is your pilothouse above the side > decks on MOM? > > Norm Moore > > 559-645-5314 > > --- On Mon, 12/14/09, Carl Anderson > wrote: > > From: Carl Anderson > > Subject: Re: [origamiboats] Re: Headroom of BS36 and BS40? > To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > Date: Monday, December 14, 2009, 10:40 AM > > Evan routinely puts the cabin top up an additional 1-1/2" from the stock > plan and that is what he did on MOM. Now the pilothouse was really > something of an expansion! > > Carl > sv-mom.com > > wild_explorer wrote: > > > > > > Just checked it again. Yep! 6'8" is a headroom I am looking for. > > > > I do understand, that headroom on BS36 is NOT a design limitation, but > > limited only by availability of hull's plate width (8x**ft). Standard > > headroom of BS36 will be enough for most people. It is, probably, > > possible to raise main cabin and wheelhouse to get desired headroom. > > Will it really affect boat stability or look so much? > > > > If I am going to build a boat, I would like to make it comfortable FOR > > ME. I might not be sure about many things on a boat, but I am sure about > > the headroom I want on it. > > > > Brent, if standard headroom of BS36 is around 6'6", what is designed > > (standard) headroom of BS40? > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > > , "brentswain38" > > wrote: > > > > > > While you could get 6 ft 8 by dropping the floor enough and accepting > > a narrower floor, you need 6 ft 8 like a chicken needs Colonel Saunders. > > > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > > , "wild_explorer" > > wrote: > > > > > > > > The tallest member of my family is 6'3" (at this time) + boots > > sole. So I need at least 6'4"+1"+2-3"(extra). I am looking for about > > 6'8" headroom in main cabin. > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.comYahoo > ! Groups Links > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > | 21688|21640|2009-12-15 00:06:51|theboilerflue|Re: Headroom of BS36 and BS40?|I don't think it would take out much floor, - I've been thinking about this on my boat lately, so let's say on my boat currently it's 6'6" standing room so to take the tank down 2 - 3 inches, since the hull is about a 60 degree triangle you'd lose somewhere between 5 inches of floor space maybe even half a foot but my interior comes into the floor space (the floor starts at the inside of the keel/hull joint currently) past the inside of the keels anyway about 2-3 inches, so I don't think it'd be really all that noticeable. --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Paul Wilson wrote: > > >>>>Yep! 6'8" is a headroom I am looking for. > > In my opinion, if you really want that much headroom, I would go for the > 40 footer. Lowering the cabin sole so much in the 36 would make it too > narrow. You want headroom where you stand (for instance in the galley), > not just in the center of the boat. > > Cheers, Paul > | 21689|21640|2009-12-15 02:17:33|Paul Wilson|Re: Headroom of BS36 and BS40?|I guess it depends on your layout. On my 36 (not a pilothouse version) I have a U shaped galley with a central counter/sink and the engine under it. The counter is about 20 inches wide and I have about 6 ft 2 in headroom. If I dropped my floor low enough to give me 6 ft 6 or 6 ft 8 inches, I would have a greatly reduced flat area to stand on when I am in the galley. Standing on an angled surface is hard on the legs. As you go forward, 6 ft 6 inch headroom would make a flat area near my forward bunks non-existent. I can't imagine the floor being another 6 inches lower without having problems or restrictions in the layout. As Brent mentioned, smaller tanks is a major one. Cheers, Paul theboilerflue wrote: > > > I don't think it would take out much floor, - I've been thinking about > this on my boat lately, > so let's say on my boat currently it's 6'6" standing room so to take > the tank down 2 - 3 inches, since the hull is about a 60 degree > triangle you'd lose somewhere between 5 inches of floor space maybe > even half a foot but my interior comes into the floor space (the floor > starts at the inside of the keel/hull joint currently) past the inside > of the keels anyway about 2-3 inches, so I don't think it'd be really > all that noticeable. > | 21690|21640|2009-12-15 13:22:07|Carl Anderson|Re: Headroom of BS36 and BS40?|In MOM we have 6'3" headroom at the aft end of the cabin tapering as you go forward to 6' just before the V berth. In the pilothouse there is 6'8" headroom aft & 6'4" forward (just before you step down to the cabin sole. In the transition zone (as you step down) there is 8' or so. Just a note about what is inside of MOM regarding headroom. Carl sv-mom.com Paul Wilson wrote: > > > I guess it depends on your layout. On my 36 (not a pilothouse version) > I have a U shaped galley with a central counter/sink and the engine > under it. The counter is about 20 inches wide and I have about 6 ft 2 > in headroom. If I dropped my floor low enough to give me 6 ft 6 or 6 ft > 8 inches, I would have a greatly reduced flat area to stand on when I am > in the galley. Standing on an angled surface is hard on the legs. As > you go forward, 6 ft 6 inch headroom would make a flat area near my > forward bunks non-existent. I can't imagine the floor being another 6 > inches lower without having problems or restrictions in the layout. As > Brent mentioned, smaller tanks is a major one. > > Cheers, Paul > | 21691|21640|2009-12-15 13:48:22|brentswain38|Re: Headroom of BS36 and BS40?|Sloping it down forward also drasticaly improves the aesthetics. Sloping the aft end down looks incredibly ugly on any boat. --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Carl Anderson wrote: > > Norm, > > The aft end of the pilothouse is 30" above the deck and it slopes to > about 24" at the forward end. This is so the rain catchment idea that > Brent has in the design will drain properly to the forward end. > > Carl > > > > Norm Moore wrote: > > > > > > Carl, I'm just curious. How tall is your pilothouse above the side > > decks on MOM? > > > > Norm Moore > > > > 559-645-5314 > > > > --- On Mon, 12/14/09, Carl Anderson > > wrote: > > > > From: Carl Anderson > > > > Subject: Re: [origamiboats] Re: Headroom of BS36 and BS40? > > To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > Date: Monday, December 14, 2009, 10:40 AM > > > > Evan routinely puts the cabin top up an additional 1-1/2" from the stock > > plan and that is what he did on MOM. Now the pilothouse was really > > something of an expansion! > > > > Carl > > sv-mom.com > > > > wild_explorer wrote: > > > > > > > > > Just checked it again. Yep! 6'8" is a headroom I am looking for. > > > > > > I do understand, that headroom on BS36 is NOT a design limitation, but > > > limited only by availability of hull's plate width (8x**ft). Standard > > > headroom of BS36 will be enough for most people. It is, probably, > > > possible to raise main cabin and wheelhouse to get desired headroom. > > > Will it really affect boat stability or look so much? > > > > > > If I am going to build a boat, I would like to make it comfortable FOR > > > ME. I might not be sure about many things on a boat, but I am sure about > > > the headroom I want on it. > > > > > > Brent, if standard headroom of BS36 is around 6'6", what is designed > > > (standard) headroom of BS40? > > > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > > > > , "brentswain38" > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > While you could get 6 ft 8 by dropping the floor enough and accepting > > > a narrower floor, you need 6 ft 8 like a chicken needs Colonel Saunders. > > > > > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > > > > , "wild_explorer" > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > The tallest member of my family is 6'3" (at this time) + boots > > > sole. So I need at least 6'4"+1"+2-3"(extra). I am looking for about > > > 6'8" headroom in main cabin. > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > > origamiboats-unsubscribe@... > > ! Groups Links > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > | 21692|21640|2009-12-15 13:49:42|brentswain38|Re: Headroom of BS36 and BS40?|The engine is under the foreward end of the cockpit , not under the floor. You can easily have 7 ft headroom in the 40, without changing much of anything. --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "wild_explorer" wrote: > > Thanks, Brent! > > Well... I need to compromise on something at this case... > > If raising the hull's height is not the option, I can see only one solution - to raise the sides of the cabin and the wheelhouse on BS36. > > I do not have your plans (not ready to buy it yet), but I assume you placed the engine under wheelhouse - this will give a reference for wheelhouse floor (on the top of engine compartment). Dropping the floor in the cabin does not look like attractive solution for me, because it will reduce tankage and floor width. > > May be BS40 would be a better choice for me. So, does BS40 have 7' headroom in the cabin without dropping the floor? Is the hull of BS40 taller than BS36? > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "brentswain38" wrote: > > > > Raising the cabinsides is a detraction on aesthetics , increasing the camber is not. Increasing the camber does nothing to reduce ultimate stability , in fact it improves ultimate stability when capsized. I usually make the headroom on a 36, 6ft 2 inches to give me a huge amount of tankage under the floor. You can drop the floor to get 6 ft 8 inches , at the cost of less tankage under the floor, which means you have to use other far more usefull storage space for tankage. On the 40 you can have 7 ft headroom without raising anything. > > In the wheelhouse you can easily have 8 ft headroom if you want, without raising anything. There is a huge amount of space under the floor. The problem is if you drop the wheelhouse floor , you will have to stand on something to see out of the windows ( kinda dangerous in a rough sea).This can also be the case in the trunk cabin. > | 21693|21640|2009-12-15 13:52:13|brentswain38|Re: Headroom of BS36 and BS40?|The wheelhouse gives you a huge amount of floor space in the galley, far more than you need. --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Paul Wilson wrote: > > I guess it depends on your layout. On my 36 (not a pilothouse version) > I have a U shaped galley with a central counter/sink and the engine > under it. The counter is about 20 inches wide and I have about 6 ft 2 > in headroom. If I dropped my floor low enough to give me 6 ft 6 or 6 ft > 8 inches, I would have a greatly reduced flat area to stand on when I am > in the galley. Standing on an angled surface is hard on the legs. As > you go forward, 6 ft 6 inch headroom would make a flat area near my > forward bunks non-existent. I can't imagine the floor being another 6 > inches lower without having problems or restrictions in the layout. As > Brent mentioned, smaller tanks is a major one. > > Cheers, Paul > > theboilerflue wrote: > > > > > > I don't think it would take out much floor, - I've been thinking about > > this on my boat lately, > > so let's say on my boat currently it's 6'6" standing room so to take > > the tank down 2 - 3 inches, since the hull is about a 60 degree > > triangle you'd lose somewhere between 5 inches of floor space maybe > > even half a foot but my interior comes into the floor space (the floor > > starts at the inside of the keel/hull joint currently) past the inside > > of the keels anyway about 2-3 inches, so I don't think it'd be really > > all that noticeable. > > > | 21694|21640|2009-12-16 20:20:36|theboilerflue|Re: Headroom of BS36 and BS40?|Alright I did some measuring last night. So I have 6'8" in my pilot house, the largest flat space with the floor where it is measures roughly to 5' x 4' although my galley counter ( L shaped) takes a little bit of this with the jog in the ell. And I opened up the tank and did some figuring. the tank is about 8' long, 3 1/2' at the aft end and 3' at the forward end if one where to drop the tank 2" giving 6'8" headroom the side would come in about 3" each side, which wouldn't affect my interior the way I've got it set up except it would make my counters kick sloped instead of flat as it is now. Also it would take out a good foot forward of flat floor, as it is I have near to two feet forward of the mast bulkhead of flat floor and that would probably shrink to only 6" or so. --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Carl Anderson wrote: > > In MOM we have 6'3" headroom at the aft end of the cabin tapering as you > go forward to 6' just before the V berth. In the pilothouse there is > 6'8" headroom aft & 6'4" forward (just before you step down to the cabin > sole. In the transition zone (as you step down) there is 8' or so. > > Just a note about what is inside of MOM regarding headroom. > > Carl > sv-mom.com > > > > Paul Wilson wrote: > > > > > > I guess it depends on your layout. On my 36 (not a pilothouse version) > > I have a U shaped galley with a central counter/sink and the engine > > under it. The counter is about 20 inches wide and I have about 6 ft 2 > > in headroom. If I dropped my floor low enough to give me 6 ft 6 or 6 ft > > 8 inches, I would have a greatly reduced flat area to stand on when I am > > in the galley. Standing on an angled surface is hard on the legs. As > > you go forward, 6 ft 6 inch headroom would make a flat area near my > > forward bunks non-existent. I can't imagine the floor being another 6 > > inches lower without having problems or restrictions in the layout. As > > Brent mentioned, smaller tanks is a major one. > > > > Cheers, Paul > > > | 21695|21695|2009-12-17 18:24:28|wild_explorer|Origami hull shapes and stability|I believe, Brent did amazing job in his hull design. I did 3D modeling of his hull (spent several days even with 3D software to come up close). This hull has exceptional directional stability (based on 3D program). I DO NOT HAVE Brent's plans and I used available legal sources (I do not use any pirated plans). So, my 3D model could be different. I need to send my drawing plans to Brent to check if it looks the same as his. Ones again, I am NOT marine designer, so do not take just my word for it. I relay on 3D software. I have noticed, when it is possible to make different hull shapes using origami technique, such hulls might have poor stability. Origami double ender's hull emulation could be done with only 15 points (5x3 grid) - means easy to build, but not as easy as hill with transom. Converting hull shape (with good stability characteristics in first place) will only slightly change marine properties of the hull. P.S. I was warn not to be my own designer, but I just cannot resist to do my own research on origami technique. If I choose to build origami boat, I will gladly pay Brent the price of his building plan just to thank him for his concept and be able officially say "This boat is Brent's origami design".| 21696|21695|2009-12-17 19:31:49|David Frantz|Re: Origami hull shapes and stability|Why the resistance to being your own designer? I'm not saying to avoid the help and direction of experienced designers just that there is nothing wrong with having a comfortable amount of input. After all it is your "house," that is you have to live in it. Safety and ease of use certainly require a bit of knowledge. Even an experienced designer needs checks and balances. So I'm suggesting consulting with somebody to go over your plans. I don't mind building stuff of my own design either but sometimes opinions of others do help. I think the trick is to avoid being to stubborn. David A Frantz websterindustro@... Sent from my iPhone. On Dec 17, 2009, at 6:23 PM, wild_explorer wrote: > I believe, Brent did amazing job in his hull design. I did 3D > modeling of his hull (spent several days even with 3D software to > come up close). This hull has exceptional directional stability > (based on 3D program). I DO NOT HAVE Brent's plans and I used > available legal sources (I do not use any pirated plans). So, my 3D > model could be different. I need to send my drawing plans to Brent > to check if it looks the same as his. > > Ones again, I am NOT marine designer, so do not take just my word > for it. I relay on 3D software. > > I have noticed, when it is possible to make different hull shapes > using origami technique, such hulls might have poor stability. > Origami double ender's hull emulation could be done with only 15 > points (5x3 grid) - means easy to build, but not as easy as hill > with transom. > > Converting hull shape (with good stability characteristics in first > place) will only slightly change marine properties of the hull. > > P.S. I was warn not to be my own designer, but I just cannot resist > to do my own research on origami technique. If I choose to build > origami boat, I will gladly pay Brent the price of his building plan > just to thank him for his concept and be able officially say "This > boat is Brent's origami design". > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.comYahoo > ! Groups Links > > > | 21697|21695|2009-12-17 21:57:35|wild_explorer|Re: Origami hull shapes and stability|Double ender hull's difference in traditional and origami technique. I uploaded file in http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/files/Origami_hulls_and_stability/Double_ender_traditional_versus_origami.pdf Waiting for comments. To David and All, I do not want to spend designer's time to ask "stupid" questions at this time. I am trying to do "dirty work" first, educate myself to a basic level, come up with something worse to look at and THEN ask questions and advises. I am open to all ideas. It would be nice to have some kind of "Open 3D origami SV project" (not to be confused with "open source license" concept). Somebody could be a coordinator (and the holder of final plans). In my opinion, Brent could be a good candidate for coordinator chair. He deserve it as the person promoting origami design. Would you be interested Brent? --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, David Frantz wrote: > > Why the resistance to being your own designer? I'm not saying to > avoid the help and direction of experienced designers just that there > is nothing wrong with having a comfortable amount of input. After > all it is your "house," that is you have to live in it. > > Safety and ease of use certainly require a bit of knowledge. Even an > experienced designer needs checks and balances. So I'm suggesting > consulting with somebody to go over your plans. > > I don't mind building stuff of my own design either but sometimes > opinions of others do help. I think the trick is to avoid being to > stubborn. > > > David A Frantz > > websterindustro@... > Sent from my iPhone. | 21698|21698|2009-12-17 22:28:04|troller10|Brent: Forward Shroud Chainplate location|Hey Brent, On the 40 footer design, why is the forward chain plate located on the cabin top and not on the rail, like the other chain plates? Also, the other chain plates show 1/2" pipe insert but the fwd chain plate shows 3/4" pipe, (welded?). Any reason why the fwd chain plate can not be put on the rail? Also the staysail mast connection shows side tangs for standing rigging, where do they connect? On the rail? Things are picking up on New Adventure. Thanks in advance. Brien H| 21699|2417|2009-12-18 01:42:59|wild_explorer|Re: hatches|Some one was concerned about cutting fingers off by hatch cover and the edge of hatch opening. There is an idea. Use the same hatch, but put couple of small "scissor" car jacks ($5 on car junk yard)inside opening and connect it to the hatch cover and hatch opening (connected on pivots?). Same principle as an emergency hatch on a bus. Pros: You cannot cut you fingers off unless you intentionally put it between edge and cover and crank the jack down. If you put it on "90 deg" slide inside hutch opening, you can reposition open hutch 90 deg and adjust it as necessary. Cons: Unable to open or close hatch fast in an emergency. Solution - fast disengage couplers or hybrid type (2 stages). Allows to open/close big opening fast and crank down small opening tight. Advantage: Because all mechanisms are inside, no need for external pivots (improves outside look). With fast disengage couplers, hatch cover could be completely removed for loading something through hatch opening. --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Mark K" wrote: > > It is possible to loop the torsion bar back to make its length twice > the hatche's width. Think of it as two springs which are mirror > images of each other. Mount one to the hatch carling and the other to > the hatch on the same side. Now connect the two free ends together. > If you were actually making one you would simply bend the whole thing > out of one piece. You should get something that looks like this (if > my ascii art comes out right): > > This end mounted to hatch with strap. > |________ > ________| <-- This end loosly affixed to something. > | > This end mounted to carling with strap. > > In truck box practice the steel lids open less than 90deg. Two > springs are generally used, mounted on opposite sides and crossing in > the middle, each about 1/8 - 3/16 diameter and 18" long. > > It would probably be worthwhile to compute the fatigue life with > whatever material you were using, especially for a customer's boat. > That info is generally available. > > - Markk > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, wrote: > > Thanks Mark, > > > > It sounds like the torsion bar would be well suited to a hatch with > a long hinge, where in effect the torsion bar is a spring that has not > been wound into a coil. It sounds like such a device could be > attached on the outside of the hatch between the hinges, but on a > short hinge, fatigue might become an issue with frequent use. > | 21700|2417|2009-12-18 11:47:38|troller10|Re: hatches|I am currently in the process of installing the main hatch on my 40 footer and am having considerable deliberation over how to get the door to swing 180 degrees, (so it can open flush against the cabin side), without needing a wide gap on the outside edge, (to accommodate the outside swinging toward the sealing edge as it opens). I am considering a sliding hatch. Has anyone ever done a slider that works well? Brien H --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "wild_explorer" wrote: > > > > Some one was concerned about cutting fingers off by hatch cover and the edge of hatch opening. There is an idea. > > Use the same hatch, but put couple of small "scissor" car jacks ($5 on car junk yard)inside opening and connect it to the hatch cover and hatch opening (connected on pivots?). Same principle as an emergency hatch on a bus. > > Pros: > > You cannot cut you fingers off unless you intentionally put it between edge and cover and crank the jack down. If you put it on "90 deg" slide inside hutch opening, you can reposition open hutch 90 deg and adjust it as necessary. > > Cons: > > Unable to open or close hatch fast in an emergency. Solution - fast disengage couplers or hybrid type (2 stages). Allows to open/close big opening fast and crank down small opening tight. > > Advantage: > > Because all mechanisms are inside, no need for external pivots (improves outside look). With fast disengage couplers, hatch cover could be completely removed for loading something through hatch opening. > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Mark K" wrote: > > > > It is possible to loop the torsion bar back to make its length twice > > the hatche's width. Think of it as two springs which are mirror > > images of each other. Mount one to the hatch carling and the other to > > the hatch on the same side. Now connect the two free ends together. > > If you were actually making one you would simply bend the whole thing > > out of one piece. You should get something that looks like this (if > > my ascii art comes out right): > > > > This end mounted to hatch with strap. > > |________ > > ________| <-- This end loosly affixed to something. > > | > > This end mounted to carling with strap. > > > > In truck box practice the steel lids open less than 90deg. Two > > springs are generally used, mounted on opposite sides and crossing in > > the middle, each about 1/8 - 3/16 diameter and 18" long. > > > > It would probably be worthwhile to compute the fatigue life with > > whatever material you were using, especially for a customer's boat. > > That info is generally available. > > > > - Markk > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, wrote: > > > Thanks Mark, > > > > > > It sounds like the torsion bar would be well suited to a hatch with > > a long hinge, where in effect the torsion bar is a spring that has not > > been wound into a coil. It sounds like such a device could be > > attached on the outside of the hatch between the hinges, but on a > > short hinge, fatigue might become an issue with frequent use. > > > | 21701|2417|2009-12-18 13:37:49|wild_explorer|Re: hatches|Original Brent's design for main hatch (door) should work just fine for 180 deg swing opening. May be I am missing something, but what wide gap are you talking about? If you want to go for a slide type door opening, it would be better to use "2 stages" mechanism (If staying outside: pull door toward you - slide it aside on the slide guide). Quite simple design, but such hinges require some precision in manufacturing and initial door alignment, plus more moving parts. --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "troller10" wrote: > > I am currently in the process of installing the main hatch on my 40 footer and am having considerable deliberation over how to get the door to swing 180 degrees, (so it can open flush against the cabin side), without needing a wide gap on the outside edge, (to accommodate the outside swinging toward the sealing edge as it opens). I am considering a sliding hatch. Has anyone ever done a slider that works well? > > Brien H | 21702|2417|2009-12-18 14:00:31|troller10|Re: hatches|Hey Wild_explorer, Maybe I need to construct a mock-up of the original hing design in order for me to see how it works. But, it seems that in order for the door to be able to open 180 deg, the pivot point needs to be at the outside surface of the door. With the pivot point at the outside surface of the door, there will need to be clearance between the edge of the door and he sealing edge equal to the the depth of the door, (plus a little). That ends up being about an inch since the door lip is about an inch wide. I was investigating an other way to close the door that does need an inch of space between the sealing edge, (on the cabin), and the outboard edge of the door its self. Thanks for the feed back. Brien H --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "wild_explorer" wrote: > > > > Original Brent's design for main hatch (door) should work just fine for 180 deg swing opening. May be I am missing something, but what wide gap are you talking about? > > If you want to go for a slide type door opening, it would be better to use "2 stages" mechanism (If staying outside: pull door toward you - slide it aside on the slide guide). Quite simple design, but such hinges require some precision in manufacturing and initial door alignment, plus more moving parts. > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "troller10" wrote: > > > > I am currently in the process of installing the main hatch on my 40 footer and am having considerable deliberation over how to get the door to swing 180 degrees, (so it can open flush against the cabin side), without needing a wide gap on the outside edge, (to accommodate the outside swinging toward the sealing edge as it opens). I am considering a sliding hatch. Has anyone ever done a slider that works well? > > > > Brien H > | 21706|2417|2009-12-18 17:26:58|wild_explorer|Re: hatches|Well, I do not know what Brent's plan call for, but I suspect it is suppose to be like this I just cannot put a drawing by symbols here (tried several times already). Ones again... door opening | |o rotating point (welded to a door frame?) || | door Rotating point location distance from cabin - door thickness to outer edge + seal material thickness (+ handle?). Is it this gap you are talking about? --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "troller10" wrote: > > Hey Wild_explorer, > > Maybe I need to construct a mock-up of the original hing design in order for me to see how it works. > > But, it seems that in order for the door to be able to open 180 deg, the pivot point needs to be at the outside surface of the door. With the pivot point at the outside surface of the door, there will need to be clearance between the edge of the door and he sealing edge equal to the the depth of the door, (plus a little). That ends up being about an inch since the door lip is about an inch wide. > > I was investigating an other way to close the door that does need an inch of space between the sealing edge, (on the cabin), and the outboard edge of the door its self. > > Thanks for the feed back. > > Brien H | 21708|2417|2009-12-18 18:08:01|wild_explorer|Re: hatches|Another attempt. This editor removes all blank symbols. Do not mind dots in a drawing - it is spacers. Well, I do not know what Brent's plan call for, but I suspect it is suppose to be like this I just cannot put a drawing by symbols here (tried several times already). Ones again... xxxx........xxx..door.opening ...|........|... ..||........|o..rotating.point ..|xxxxxxxxxx|..door Rotating point (hinge) welded to a DOOR FRAME (not to a cabin side). Rotatingpoint location distance from cabin - door thickness to outer edge + seal material thickness (+ handle?). Is it this gap you are talking about? --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "troller10" wrote: > > Hey Wild_explorer, > > Maybe I need to construct a mock-up of the original hing design in order for me to see how it works. > > But, it seems that in order for the door to be able to open 180 deg, the pivot point needs to be at the outside surface of the door. With the pivot point at the outside surface of the door, there will need to be clearance between the edge of the door and he sealing edge equal to the the depth of the door, (plus a little). That ends up being about an inch since the door lip is about an inch wide. > > I was investigating an other way to close the door that does need an inch of space between the sealing edge, (on the cabin), and the outboard edge of the door its self. > > Thanks for the feed back. > > Brien H | 21709|2417|2009-12-18 21:41:07|Aaron Williams|Re: hatches|Draw what you want and the upload it to the file folder or send it as an attachment --- On Fri, 12/18/09, wild_explorer wrote: From: wild_explorer Subject: [origamiboats] Re: hatches To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, December 18, 2009, 12:52 PM   Well, I do not know what Brent's plan call for, but I suspect it is suppose to be like this ____ _______ door opening | | | |o rotating point (welded to a door frame?) || ____________ _________ _|| door Rotating point location distance from cabin - door thickness to outer edge + seal material thickness (+ handle?). Is it this gap you are talking about? --- In origamiboats@ yahoogroups. com, "troller10" wrote: > > Hey Wild_explorer, > > Maybe I need to construct a mock-up of the original hing design in order for me to see how it works. > > But, it seems that in order for the door to be able to open 180 deg, the pivot point needs to be at the outside surface of the door. With the pivot point at the outside surface of the door, there will need to be clearance between the edge of the door and he sealing edge equal to the the depth of the door, (plus a little). That ends up being about an inch since the door lip is about an inch wide. > > I was investigating an other way to close the door that does need an inch of space between the sealing edge, (on the cabin), and the outboard edge of the door its self. > > Thanks for the feed back. > > Brien H [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 21710|2417|2009-12-18 23:04:49|Gord Schnell|Re: hatches|Here is what I did on my 40'. I like how it opens out of the way, and latches open. When it is closed, a deadbolt lock secures the boat. Gord On 18-Dec-09, at 10:35 AM, wild_explorer wrote: > > > Original Brent's design for main hatch (door) should work just fine > for 180 deg swing opening. May be I am missing something, but what > wide gap are you talking about? > > If you want to go for a slide type door opening, it would be better > to use "2 stages" mechanism (If staying outside: pull door toward > you - slide it aside on the slide guide). Quite simple design, but > such hinges require some precision in manufacturing and initial door > alignment, plus more moving parts. > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "troller10" wrote: > > > > I am currently in the process of installing the main hatch on my > 40 footer and am having considerable deliberation over how to get > the door to swing 180 degrees, (so it can open flush against the > cabin side), without needing a wide gap on the outside edge, (to > accommodate the outside swinging toward the sealing edge as it > opens). I am considering a sliding hatch. Has anyone ever done a > slider that works well? > > > > Brien H > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 21712|22|2009-12-19 06:05:41|origamiboats@yahoogroups.com|New file uploaded to origamiboats |Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the origamiboats group. File : /Origami_hulls_and_stability/Design_ideas_parts_equipment/Simple_door_hatch_mounting.pdf Uploaded by : wild_explorer Description : Simple door hatch mounting for 180 deg opening You can access this file at the URL: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/files/Origami_hulls_and_stability/Design_ideas_parts_equipment/Simple_door_hatch_mounting.pdf To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit: http://help.yahoo.com/l/us/yahoo/groups/original/members/forms/general.htmlfiles Regards, wild_explorer | 21713|2417|2009-12-19 06:12:57|wild_explorer|Re: hatches|Done. Check the link in previous message. This idea of simple door mounting for 180 deg opening should work. --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Aaron Williams wrote: > > Draw what you want and the upload it to the file folder or send it as an attachment | 21714|2417|2009-12-19 09:52:18|sitefix|Re: hatches|Just a quick thought. I have been on many "ships". Both Military and Civilian. Yes, there is a finger accident potential. Shoulder, leg, arm etc etc. Often, unless recent maintenance was performed, the hatches usually were stiff, and needed assistance to close or open. I am thinking practically, the biggest safety factor is to have alternative grab bars, placed more conveniently inside and outside, above and to the side of the seal edge of the hatch, and to have heavy duty reliable securing devices for when in the open or closed position. These do need maintenance regularly. This should minimize the "risk" potential. Once one hears a slamming hatch hit, most are motivated to keep to the grab bars. Visitors are always a worry, but hey, indoctrination and education with a check list. Mac| 21715|2417|2009-12-19 10:50:01|Gord Schnell|Re: hatches|Don't know what happened to the picture I attached to the previous posting Re: hatches ---------- This is a slide from a course I prepared some time ago. It shows the main hatch closed and locked. When opened, it swings to port and lay flush against the cabin, It uses an interlocking flange and a rubber gasket to seal. Gord On 18-Dec-09, at 8:04 PM, Gord Schnell wrote: > Here is what I did on my 40'. I like how it opens out of the way, and > latches open. When it is closed, a deadbolt lock secures the boat. > Gord > > On 18-Dec-09, at 10:35 AM, wild_explorer wrote: > >> >> >> Original Brent's design for main hatch (door) should work just fine >> for 180 deg swing opening. May be I am missing something, but what >> wide gap are you talking about? >> >> If you want to go for a slide type door opening, it would be better >> to use "2 stages" mechanism (If staying outside: pull door toward >> you - slide it aside on the slide guide). Quite simple design, but >> such hinges require some precision in manufacturing and initial door >> alignment, plus more moving parts. >> >> --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "troller10" wrote: >>> >>> I am currently in the process of installing the main hatch on my >> 40 footer and am having considerable deliberation over how to get >> the door to swing 180 degrees, (so it can open flush against the >> cabin side), without needing a wide gap on the outside edge, (to >> accommodate the outside swinging toward the sealing edge as it >> opens). I am considering a sliding hatch. Has anyone ever done a >> slider that works well? >>> >>> Brien H >> >> >> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.comYahoo > ! Groups Links > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 21716|2417|2009-12-19 11:27:25|Ben Okopnik|Re: hatches|On Sat, Dec 19, 2009 at 02:51:09PM -0000, sitefix wrote: > Just a quick thought. > > I have been on many "ships". Both Military and Civilian. > Yes, there is a finger accident potential. Shoulder, leg, arm etc etc. > Often, unless recent maintenance was performed, the hatches usually were stiff, and needed assistance to close or open. > > I am thinking practically, the biggest safety factor is to have alternative grab bars, placed more conveniently inside and outside, above and to the side of the seal edge of the hatch, and to have heavy duty reliable securing devices for when in the open or closed position. These do need maintenance regularly. This should minimize the "risk" potential. Once one hears a slamming hatch hit, most are motivated to keep to the grab bars. Visitors are always a worry, but hey, indoctrination and education with a check list. Or you could just get a pneumatic cylinder from your nearest auto parts store for ~$10 and attach it between the door and the frame. No more slamming, or any chance of chopped-off fingers. I've just installed one of these on the hatch to my aft cabin, and like it so much that I'll be adding them to both my cockpit seat lockers. They also make the hatch easier to raise, which my wife is really happy about. -- OKOPNIK CONSULTING Custom Computing Solutions For Your Business Expert-led Training | Dynamic, vital websites | Custom programming 443-250-7895 http://okopnik.com| 21717|2417|2009-12-19 15:36:06|wild_explorer|Re: hatches|It is a good solution, but has its limitations: - does not allow to open main door 180 deg - works better for overhead hatches (allows to open the hatch easier and you can use your weight to close it. But how will you adjust direction of horizontal hatch opening (for square hatch in 90 deg increment)? Brent's solution was to remove open hatch's lid in open position and reposition it (if I am correct). - These cylinders come with different working length and force. Need to pay attention to this one too. - You need to use identical cylinders for all hatches and carry some extra on a boat(they do go bad). > Or you could just get a pneumatic cylinder from your nearest auto parts > store for ~$10 and attach it between the door and the frame. No more > slamming, or any chance of chopped-off fingers. I've just installed one > of these on the hatch to my aft cabin, and like it so much that I'll be > adding them to both my cockpit seat lockers. They also make the hatch > easier to raise, which my wife is really happy about. | 21718|21718|2009-12-19 19:48:36|Michael J|steel thickness|Hey everybody, I have watched the video and read the book and feel comfortable with the process. Another person in my area was going to start a different build but has abandoned the project. He will sell my his steel for a steal. However, it's 1/4" and not 3/16" like the materials list specifies. BTW, I would build a 40' boat. How would using 1/4" steel affect this? Thanks for the info, Michael| 21719|21718|2009-12-20 07:15:16|martin demers|Re: skeg thickness|Hi Brent, do you use 3/16 plate for the skeg? Martin. To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com From: skovian@... Date: Sun, 20 Dec 2009 00:48:24 +0000 Subject: [origamiboats] steel thickness Hey everybody, I have watched the video and read the book and feel comfortable with the process. Another person in my area was going to start a different build but has abandoned the project. He will sell my his steel for a steal. However, it's 1/4" and not 3/16" like the materials list specifies. BTW, I would build a 40' boat. How would using 1/4" steel affect this? Thanks for the info, Michael _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live : vos amis voient plus facilement ce que vous faites sur Facebook. http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9691826 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]| 21720|21698|2009-12-20 09:16:18|James Pronk|Re: Brent: Forward Shroud Chainplate location|I think the forward chainplates are placed on the cabin top to clear the inner forsail when you are beating I think. James --- On Thu, 12/17/09, troller10 wrote: From: troller10 Subject: [origamiboats] Brent: Forward Shroud Chainplate location To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Received: Thursday, December 17, 2009, 10:27 PM   Hey Brent, On the 40 footer design, why is the forward chain plate located on the cabin top and not on the rail, like the other chain plates? Also, the other chain plates show 1/2" pipe insert but the fwd chain plate shows 3/4" pipe, (welded?). Any reason why the fwd chain plate can not be put on the rail? Also the staysail mast connection shows side tangs for standing rigging, where do they connect? On the rail? Things are picking up on New Adventure. Thanks in advance. Brien H __________________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Canada Toolbar: Search from anywhere on the web, and bookmark your favourite sites. Download it now http://ca.toolbar.yahoo.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 21721|2417|2009-12-20 13:00:37|Ben Okopnik|Re: hatches|On Sat, Dec 19, 2009 at 08:35:54PM -0000, wild_explorer wrote: > It is a good solution, but has its limitations: [blink] Pardon me, but can you name a solution that doesn't? > - does not allow to open main door 180 deg If you install it with a clevis pin retainer on one side (and presumably a latch at the 180 position), that problem becomes a non-problem. Next? > - works better for overhead hatches (allows to open the hatch easier and you can use your weight to close it. But how will you adjust direction of horizontal hatch opening (for square hatch in 90 deg increment)? I was just on a boat where the builder put a good-quality hydraulic brake (I don't know if that's the right term for it - a cylinder with a rod through it that slows/resists the motion of the rod) with an adjustable bypass valve on his main hatch. If you insist on having that kind of functionality, then perhaps spending a hundred bucks instead of ten is worth it. That would work for both vertical and horizontal hatches. > - These cylinders come with different working length and force. Need to pay attention to this one too. Once, yes. Is paying attention to one single item during the design stage really such an incredible burden? If it is, then I'd suggest doing something much easier than building (or even maintaining) a steel boat. Or cruising. :) For myself, I did spend quite a while noodling on this thing before installing it, especially since I'm not an expert with hydraulics or pneumatics; I wanted to figure out the maximum and minimum support force exerted by it in different positions, where to put the over-center point, and so on. Installing it and positioning it, however, took all of ten minutes - and it's worked flawlessly ever since. In addition, now that I've done it once, I'll have no problem doing anything like that from here forward. The way I look at it, paying attention in this case gained me a good bit of useful knowledge, as well as improving my boat. I can't ask for more of a reward than that. > - You need to use identical cylinders for all hatches and carry some extra on a boat(they do go bad). Even if you use three different kinds, carrying spares is no big deal - they don't take up much room. Even if they do fail and you happen to be out of spares, it's _still_ no big deal - since you can always rig a bit of line to hold it temporarily. -- OKOPNIK CONSULTING Custom Computing Solutions For Your Business Expert-led Training | Dynamic, vital websites | Custom programming 443-250-7895 http://okopnik.com| 21722|21722|2009-12-20 16:40:14|steve|Storm anchoring or avoidance discussion|Here is a link to a good discussion on storm anchoring on the Sailing Anarchy forum. Only a bit of flaming. http://forums.sailinganarchy.com/index.php?showtopic=100772&st=0&start=0| 21723|2417|2009-12-20 19:21:50|wild_explorer|Re: hatches|Ben, my post WAS NOT meant to criticize your solution. It was a ground for more discussion about others possible solutions. You already did better than me - you have your boat. I am still researching if I want to build one. The main difference between you and me, I have luxury to collect all ideas as a start, you have to modify what you already have. OK. Back on track. Doors and hatches ARE SAFETY HAZARDS. So, it is need to pay attention to safety. It IS A BIG DEAL AT SEA. Yes, it is better to keep door and hatches closed at sea, but not everybody follows such practice. Ben, I have no idea, how your door or hatches looks like. May be you do not need (or want) to open it more then 90%. May be your hatches open only in one direction. You did not upload any pictures. What I know, I was cursing engineers, who put such cylinders with wrong force rating and lousy safety latch on equipment's cover. The cover will just drops on your fingers if you are not careful enough. Finally, after many complains, they replaced it with proper force/load rating cylinder (safety latch still lousy). You can put a simple stopper/safety_latch on a cylinder to keep it in open position. I will try to draw the sketch and upload it in a file section together with a picture of the hatch with "cylinders". Yes, I am opting for BEST possible CHEAP solution ;))| 21724|12244|2009-12-20 20:23:58|mickeyolaf|Merry Christmas|Everywhere u go now it's "Happy Holidays", "Season's Greetings". "Holiday Gifts". "This Holiday Season" Stores that call themselves "Your Holiday Store". The season of political correctness. What a load of bullsh-t. Canada Post now sells "Holiday Gifts". Chapters Books has a "Holiday Guide". So I just thought in the spirit of the Canada I remember I would wish you all a "Merry Christmas". Let's hope there's a new 4JH3E under the Christmas tree for each of you (and a case of Christmas rum).| 21725|12244|2009-12-20 21:29:55|Aaron Williams|Re: Merry Christmas|Thanks Mickey I don't know about the 4jh3E but I am getting a new seaward cook stove and a new set of cushins that were for a C&C 38 maybe a little trimming will be due but thanks to go to Craigslist for all. The wife gave up trying to stuff it all under the tree. Aaron --- On Sun, 12/20/09, mickeyolaf wrote: From: mickeyolaf Subject: [origamiboats] Merry Christmas To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, December 20, 2009, 4:21 PM   Everywhere u go now it's "Happy Holidays", "Season's Greetings". "Holiday Gifts". "This Holiday Season" Stores that call themselves "Your Holiday Store". The season of political correctness. What a load of bullsh-t. Canada Post now sells "Holiday Gifts". Chapters Books has a "Holiday Guide".. So I just thought in the spirit of the Canada I remember I would wish you all a "Merry Christmas". Let's hope there's a new 4JH3E under the Christmas tree for each of you (and a case of Christmas rum). [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 21726|22|2009-12-20 21:53:57|origamiboats@yahoogroups.com|New file uploaded to origamiboats |Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the origamiboats group. File : /Origami_hulls_and_stability/Design_ideas_parts_equipment/Hatches_illustrations_for_topic_21721.pdf Uploaded by : wild_explorer Description : Some illustrations on hatche's topic #21723 You can access this file at the URL: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/files/Origami_hulls_and_stability/Design_ideas_parts_equipment/Hatches_illustrations_for_topic_21721.pdf To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit: http://help.yahoo.com/l/us/yahoo/groups/original/members/forms/general.htmlfiles Regards, wild_explorer | 21727|12244|2009-12-21 04:22:52|Denis Buggy|Re: Merry Christmas|To all the patient generous people who take the time to explain their craft and experience to the rest of us, a happy Christmas from Ireland . Denis Buggy ----- Original Message ----- From: mickeyolaf To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, December 21, 2009 1:21 AM Subject: [origamiboats] Merry Christmas Everywhere u go now it's "Happy Holidays", "Season's Greetings". "Holiday Gifts". "This Holiday Season" Stores that call themselves "Your Holiday Store". The season of political correctness. What a load of bullsh-t. Canada Post now sells "Holiday Gifts". Chapters Books has a "Holiday Guide". So I just thought in the spirit of the Canada I remember I would wish you all a "Merry Christmas". Let's hope there's a new 4JH3E under the Christmas tree for each of you (and a case of Christmas rum). [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 21729|21729|2009-12-21 07:20:34|Thierry Msika|BS 26' junk rig, centreboard|Hello again, I am thinking about building a 26'. My current boat is a "Wylo II" 35' centreboard gaff rig. My kids are leaving the family soon and our current boat is big to handle and maintain. I am sailing engineless and as long as I have a teenager to man the sweep it is OK but I want to be able to keep sailing engineless without too much man power. I'd like to know if many people have build the 26' and if some of those people are still on the list. Who knows the draft of the 26' single keel? I know that Dove II was built with a centreboard. Is there something online to read about that? I would probably rig this boat as a single masted junk. Has someone done it before? I want a one piece 10'-12' sailing and rowing tender to carry on deck. I am very interested in a well designed heated pilot house because I would be sailing out of Nova Scotia. The pilot house should permit watching for shipping above the tender on deck. I probably could have standing headroom only in the pilot house and seating headroom in the main cabin. The tender would fit over a large hatch with high coamings. Thanks Thierry [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]| 21730|21730|2009-12-21 07:20:43|Thierry Msika|Offline posts reading|Hello group, I am currently cruising in southern Europe and have limited access to the internet. I would like to know if there is a function in the Yahoo groups that would permit reading previous posts offline. I found archives of the group until 2004 or so in the files folder. I'd like to read also the more recent ones. Thanks. Cheers Thierry| 21731|21731|2009-12-21 07:21:44|Thierry Msika|Links to origami boats in French or German|Hello group, I am interested in any link to origami boats in French or German language. Thanks Thierry| 21732|21731|2009-12-21 09:03:42|James Pronk|Re: Links to origami boats in French or German|This is a link to the Yago Project and it is in German http://www.yago-project.com/component/option,com_frontpage/Itemid,1/lang,ger/ --- On Mon, 12/21/09, Thierry Msika wrote: From: Thierry Msika Subject: [origamiboats] Links to origami boats in French or German To: "origamiboats@yahoogroups.com" Received: Monday, December 21, 2009, 7:20 AM Hello group, I am interested in any link to origami boats in French or German language. Thanks Thierry ------------------------------------ To Post a message, send it to:   origamiboats@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.comYahoo! Groups Links __________________________________________________________________ Looking for the perfect gift? Give the gift of Flickr! http://www.flickr.com/gift/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 21733|21698|2009-12-21 09:26:12|troller10|Re: Brent: Forward Shroud Chainplate location|So, you would place the inner foresail between the main shroud, (on the rail), and the forward shroud, (on the cabin top)? If one was going to run the sheet inside the main shroud, why not just place the lower forward shroud on the rail and run the fore sail sheet inside all of them? Or am I missing something here? thanks B Hamilton --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, James Pronk wrote: > > I think the forward chainplates are placed on the cabin top to clear the inner forsail when you are beating I think. > James > > --- On Thu, 12/17/09, troller10 wrote: > > > From: troller10 > Subject: [origamiboats] Brent: Forward Shroud Chainplate location > To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > Received: Thursday, December 17, 2009, 10:27 PM > > >   > > > > Hey Brent, > > On the 40 footer design, why is the forward chain plate located on the cabin top and not on the rail, like the other chain plates? > > Also, the other chain plates show 1/2" pipe insert but the fwd chain plate shows 3/4" pipe, (welded?). Any reason why the fwd chain plate can not be put on the rail? > > Also the staysail mast connection shows side tangs for standing rigging, where do they connect? On the rail? > > Things are picking up on New Adventure. > > Thanks in advance. > > Brien H > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________________________ > Yahoo! Canada Toolbar: Search from anywhere on the web, and bookmark your favourite sites. Download it now > http://ca.toolbar.yahoo.com > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > | 21734|2417|2009-12-21 10:13:20|Ben Okopnik|Re: hatches|On Mon, Dec 21, 2009 at 12:21:42AM -0000, wild_explorer wrote: > Ben, my post WAS NOT meant to criticize your solution. It was a ground > for more discussion about others possible solutions. No worries. I was just a little bemused by the "your solution has problems" line; there's no solution that I know of for anything on a boat - anything can be criticized - because everything on a boat is a compromise. True in a larger context as well, but more so on a boat. > You already did better than me - you have your boat. I am still > researching if I want to build one. The main difference between you > and me, I have luxury to collect all ideas as a start, you have to > modify what you already have. Actually, my initial reason for joining this list was because I wanted to "upgrade" to a Swain design. I don't know if I ever will, given the way the economy has gone, but I've learned a lot here and continue to learn - there are some really great, smart people here on the list, and Brent is just one hell of an amazing designer (as well as being a really good man.) My criteria in boat design come from many years of cruising and living aboard, and are pretty stringent, but - well, I must have recommended his designs to over a hundred people by now. Just incredible. > OK. Back on track. Doors and hatches ARE SAFETY HAZARDS. So, it is > need to pay attention to safety. It IS A BIG DEAL AT SEA. Yes, it is > better to keep door and hatches closed at sea, but not everybody > follows such practice. I've been in a storm where I took two big breakers over the course of two days, each of which rolled over the entire boat and filled my cockpit waist-deep. You definitely don't have to convince me. :) > Ben, I have no idea, how your door or hatches looks like. May be you > do not need (or want) to open it more then 90%. May be your hatches > open only in one direction. You did not upload any pictures. As I've mentioned, 180-opening hatches just need a clevis pin that releases the braking mechanism. > What I know, I was cursing engineers, who put such cylinders with > wrong force rating and lousy safety latch on equipment's cover. Hence, the adjustable bypass valve. That would allow you to set the amount of resistance precisely to what you want. Here's the kind of thing I'm talking about (the bypass valve would go across the ports): http://www.quadracorp.com/product_detail.php?cat=nfpa&prod=436 > You can put a simple stopper/safety_latch on a cylinder to keep it in > open position. I will try to draw the sketch and upload it in a file > section together with a picture of the hatch with "cylinders". > > Yes, I am opting for BEST possible CHEAP solution ;)) Aren't we all? :) However, when the trade-off is "cheap" versus "reliable", I know which way my decision goes. I've said that everything on a boat is a compromise, but for me, that usually means "compromise other things to gain safety or reliability." -- OKOPNIK CONSULTING Custom Computing Solutions For Your Business Expert-led Training | Dynamic, vital websites | Custom programming 443-250-7895 http://okopnik.com| 21735|21730|2009-12-21 11:42:22|David Frantz|Re: Offline posts reading|The archives for old messages! To keep up to date otherwise have the current messages mailed to an E- Mail account. Then when you get a chance to log on to your E-Mail all the new messages since your last log onare there. A good E-Mail Clint will mark them as unread also. I find the use of E-Mail for current messages to be the best as it is very easy to pick up where you left off. David A Frantz websterindustro@... Sent from my iPhone. On Dec 21, 2009, at 7:20 AM, Thierry Msika wrote: > Hello group, > > I am currently cruising in southern Europe and have limited access > to the > internet. > I would like to know if there is a function in the Yahoo groups that > would > permit reading previous posts offline. > I found archives of the group until 2004 or so in the files folder. > I'd > like to read also the more recent ones. > > Thanks. > > Cheers > > Thierry > > > ------------------------------------ > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.comYahoo > ! Groups Links > > > | 21736|22|2009-12-21 14:47:15|origamiboats@yahoogroups.com|New file uploaded to origamiboats |Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the origamiboats group. File : /Origami_hulls_and_stability/Design_ideas_parts_equipment/Cylinder_Stop_2.pdf Uploaded by : wild_explorer Description : Safety latch modification for long cylinder You can access this file at the URL: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/files/Origami_hulls_and_stability/Design_ideas_parts_equipment/Cylinder_Stop_2.pdf To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit: http://help.yahoo.com/l/us/yahoo/groups/original/members/forms/general.htmlfiles Regards, wild_explorer | 21737|2417|2009-12-21 15:18:18|wild_explorer|Re: hatches|I have uploaded the sketch for modified cylinder stop (could be useful for long cylinders). See the links in posts #21736 and #21726. Read below for more ideas (in this post). > No worries. I was just a little bemused by the "your solution has > problems" line; Not the problems. Limitations ;) Feel the difference? ;)) > As I've mentioned, 180-opening hatches just need a clevis pin that > releases the braking mechanism. Agree. This is the simplest solution, but I believe we can do better than that. Still thinking about it. For DIY, it is possible to use rods with "sliding brake and stopper" instead of cylinders. I do not know if it has financial reason (cylinders are cheap). For DIY solution. Rod, split pipe with plastic insert, brake adjustment/stopper (which tightens split pipe). More friction/tension - slower to open, even more tension - stop. It could be fast tightening release like on bicycle's seat (fast release). Or 2 stages adjustment - fixed adjustment for opening speed, fast release for stop.| 21738|21729|2009-12-21 19:01:45|aaron riis|Re: BS 26' junk rig, centreboard|hello Thierry, I built  a 26 single keel with a wheel house.  it draws about 3 foot 10 empty.  Winston told me that he would never build a centerboard in one again because of the difficulty of painting the inside.  you only have about 10 feet from the stem to the mast, so a large dinghy is difficult.  Even if I built an engineless boat, I would weld in the preparations for an engine should you change your mind.  The single keel should give you 30 to 40 gallons of extra tankage.  I don't know of anyone who has put a junk rig on one just a few thoughts,  Aaron --- On Mon, 12/21/09, Thierry Msika wrote: From: Thierry Msika Subject: [origamiboats] BS 26' junk rig, centreboard To: "origamiboats@yahoogroups.com" Received: Monday, December 21, 2009, 4:20 AM   Hello again, I am thinking about building a 26'. My current boat is a "Wylo II" 35' centreboard gaff rig. My kids are leaving the family soon and our current boat is big to handle and maintain. I am sailing engineless and as long as I have a teenager to man the sweep it is OK but I want to be able to keep sailing engineless without too much man power. I'd like to know if many people have build the 26' and if some of those people are still on the list. Who knows the draft of the 26' single keel? I know that Dove II was built with a centreboard. Is there something online to read about that? I would probably rig this boat as a single masted junk. Has someone done it before? I want a one piece 10'-12' sailing and rowing tender to carry on deck. I am very interested in a well designed heated pilot house because I would be sailing out of Nova Scotia. The pilot house should permit watching for shipping above the tender on deck. I probably could have standing headroom only in the pilot house and seating headroom in the main cabin. The tender would fit over a large hatch with high coamings. Thanks Thierry [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] __________________________________________________________________ Looking for the perfect gift? Give the gift of Flickr! http://www.flickr.com/gift/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 21739|2417|2009-12-21 20:26:16|theboilerflue|Re: hatches (Vault)|Well WILD you've got a large project in mind with just the door, I personally would to and keep things simple, my door doesn't open flush, It hits the 1/2 pipe I have welded to the cabin top as trim and stays open for for about 5 degrees. The assembly is a simple gudgeon and pintle system (gudgons are the pipe part right?), the Pintles are SS fitting bolted to the door edge and the gudgeons are welded to the hull - furred out about 1/2 inch. If I want to at sometime flatten my door opening I could just fir the gudgeons out a bit more and that should work fine. Otherwise instead of building a fancy (but awesome) hatch mabey you'd be better off looking in some marine salvage yards for a locking hatch out of a big ship (or a safe). --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Ben Okopnik wrote: > > On Sat, Dec 19, 2009 at 08:35:54PM -0000, wild_explorer wrote: > > It is a good solution, but has its limitations: > > [blink] Pardon me, but can you name a solution that doesn't? > > > - does not allow to open main door 180 deg > > If you install it with a clevis pin retainer on one side (and presumably > a latch at the 180 position), that problem becomes a non-problem. Next? > > > - works better for overhead hatches (allows to open the hatch easier and you can use your weight to close it. But how will you adjust direction of horizontal hatch opening (for square hatch in 90 deg increment)? > > I was just on a boat where the builder put a good-quality hydraulic > brake (I don't know if that's the right term for it - a cylinder with a > rod through it that slows/resists the motion of the rod) with an > adjustable bypass valve on his main hatch. If you insist on having that > kind of functionality, then perhaps spending a hundred bucks instead of > ten is worth it. That would work for both vertical and horizontal > hatches. > > > - These cylinders come with different working length and force. Need to pay attention to this one too. > > Once, yes. Is paying attention to one single item during the design > stage really such an incredible burden? If it is, then I'd suggest doing > something much easier than building (or even maintaining) a steel boat. > Or cruising. :) > > For myself, I did spend quite a while noodling on this thing before > installing it, especially since I'm not an expert with hydraulics or > pneumatics; I wanted to figure out the maximum and minimum support force > exerted by it in different positions, where to put the over-center > point, and so on. Installing it and positioning it, however, took all of > ten minutes - and it's worked flawlessly ever since. In addition, now > that I've done it once, I'll have no problem doing anything like that > from here forward. The way I look at it, paying attention in this case > gained me a good bit of useful knowledge, as well as improving my boat. > I can't ask for more of a reward than that. > > > - You need to use identical cylinders for all hatches and carry some extra on a boat(they do go bad). > > Even if you use three different kinds, carrying spares is no big deal - > they don't take up much room. Even if they do fail and you happen to be > out of spares, it's _still_ no big deal - since you can always rig a bit > of line to hold it temporarily. > > > -- > OKOPNIK CONSULTING > Custom Computing Solutions For Your Business > Expert-led Training | Dynamic, vital websites | Custom programming > 443-250-7895 http://okopnik.com > | 21740|2417|2009-12-21 21:07:31|wild_explorer|Re: hatches (Vault)|Theboilerflue, just thoughts: There are not so many things I need to worry about in a "power away stage" boat beside good hull and engine. Door, hatches, windows, hand rails, ventilation, electric conduits. > Well WILD you've got a large project in mind with just the door, I >personally would to and keep things simple, Simple is good. That why I put a sketch about 180 deg door's hinges in the file section (same idea you describe, just illustration). But why not to make the door to be safe? I remember doors on a ship (I used to work) which used some simple latching mechanism on the floor (or cabin side?). You swing door open and it stays open. When you need to close it, you step on release pedal and close the door. It was something very simple. I am trying to remember how was it done. > Otherwise instead of building a fancy (but awesome) hatch mabey you'd be better off looking in some marine salvage yards for a locking hatch out of a big ship (or a safe). :) Not everybody has access to marine salvage yard or large dumpster with all kind of useful staff. Better to be able to make it by youself ;))| 21741|21698|2009-12-21 21:19:06|theboilerflue|Re: Brent: Forward Shroud Chainplate location|No you run the jib sheet outside all shrouds (at least on a 36') the forward lowers are on my cabin grab rail as well I believe it's just to open up that area a bit to make it easier to go forward, otherwise it'd be like climbing through a narrow passage, this way it's just a couple on your outboard side and then one stay, rather than having to duck back and forth and then back - it's just back and forth with the lower inside the walkway. It might allow a smaller innerforestay more room as well or at least would give the jib a more gradual obstacle to roll over, more rounded. --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "troller10" wrote: > > So, you would place the inner foresail between the main shroud, (on the rail), and the forward shroud, (on the cabin top)? > > If one was going to run the sheet inside the main shroud, why not just place the lower forward shroud on the rail and run the fore sail sheet inside all of them? > > Or am I missing something here? > > thanks > > B Hamilton > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, James Pronk wrote: > > > > I think the forward chainplates are placed on the cabin top to clear the inner forsail when you are beating I think. > > James > > > > --- On Thu, 12/17/09, troller10 wrote: > > > > > > From: troller10 > > Subject: [origamiboats] Brent: Forward Shroud Chainplate location > > To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > Received: Thursday, December 17, 2009, 10:27 PM > > > > > >   > > > > > > > > Hey Brent, > > > > On the 40 footer design, why is the forward chain plate located on the cabin top and not on the rail, like the other chain plates? > > > > Also, the other chain plates show 1/2" pipe insert but the fwd chain plate shows 3/4" pipe, (welded?). Any reason why the fwd chain plate can not be put on the rail? > > > > Also the staysail mast connection shows side tangs for standing rigging, where do they connect? On the rail? > > > > Things are picking up on New Adventure. > > > > Thanks in advance. > > > > Brien H > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________________________ > > Yahoo! Canada Toolbar: Search from anywhere on the web, and bookmark your favourite sites. Download it now > > http://ca.toolbar.yahoo.com > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > | 21742|2417|2009-12-21 21:21:51|theboilerflue|Re: hatches (Vault)|sorry that was a typo I meant I personally would keep things simple. ...my door... --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "theboilerflue" wrote: > > Well WILD you've got a large project in mind with just the door, I personally would to and keep things simple, my door doesn't open flush, It hits the 1/2 pipe I have welded to the cabin top as trim and stays open for for about 5 degrees. The assembly is a simple gudgeon and pintle system (gudgons are the pipe part right?), the Pintles are SS fitting bolted to the door edge and the gudgeons are > welded to the hull - furred out about 1/2 inch. If I want to at sometime flatten my door opening I could just fir the gudgeons out a bit more and that should work fine. > Otherwise instead of building a fancy (but awesome) hatch mabey you'd be better off looking in some marine salvage yards for a locking hatch out of a big ship (or a safe). > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Ben Okopnik wrote: > > > > On Sat, Dec 19, 2009 at 08:35:54PM -0000, wild_explorer wrote: > > > It is a good solution, but has its limitations: > > > > [blink] Pardon me, but can you name a solution that doesn't? > > > > > - does not allow to open main door 180 deg > > > > If you install it with a clevis pin retainer on one side (and presumably > > a latch at the 180 position), that problem becomes a non-problem. Next? > > > > > - works better for overhead hatches (allows to open the hatch easier and you can use your weight to close it. But how will you adjust direction of horizontal hatch opening (for square hatch in 90 deg increment)? > > > > I was just on a boat where the builder put a good-quality hydraulic > > brake (I don't know if that's the right term for it - a cylinder with a > > rod through it that slows/resists the motion of the rod) with an > > adjustable bypass valve on his main hatch. If you insist on having that > > kind of functionality, then perhaps spending a hundred bucks instead of > > ten is worth it. That would work for both vertical and horizontal > > hatches. > > > > > - These cylinders come with different working length and force. Need to pay attention to this one too. > > > > Once, yes. Is paying attention to one single item during the design > > stage really such an incredible burden? If it is, then I'd suggest doing > > something much easier than building (or even maintaining) a steel boat. > > Or cruising. :) > > > > For myself, I did spend quite a while noodling on this thing before > > installing it, especially since I'm not an expert with hydraulics or > > pneumatics; I wanted to figure out the maximum and minimum support force > > exerted by it in different positions, where to put the over-center > > point, and so on. Installing it and positioning it, however, took all of > > ten minutes - and it's worked flawlessly ever since. In addition, now > > that I've done it once, I'll have no problem doing anything like that > > from here forward. The way I look at it, paying attention in this case > > gained me a good bit of useful knowledge, as well as improving my boat. > > I can't ask for more of a reward than that. > > > > > - You need to use identical cylinders for all hatches and carry some extra on a boat(they do go bad). > > > > Even if you use three different kinds, carrying spares is no big deal - > > they don't take up much room. Even if they do fail and you happen to be > > out of spares, it's _still_ no big deal - since you can always rig a bit > > of line to hold it temporarily. > > > > > > -- > > OKOPNIK CONSULTING > > Custom Computing Solutions For Your Business > > Expert-led Training | Dynamic, vital websites | Custom programming > > 443-250-7895 http://okopnik.com > > > | 21743|2417|2009-12-21 21:32:21|theboilerflue|Re: hatches (Dumpster?)|I'm assuming the danger is if the wind picks up and slams the door on someone unsuspecting hand type of thing? What if you arranged some kind of catch rod, like they have for screen doors or the catch on dumpsters (you must have access to some dumpster) the ones with metal lids that catch when you open them and you have to pull the catch off to close the lid, that if the door was fully opened it would fall into place and would have to be lifted up to shut the door. Very much like you're cylinder spring device but you could build it with just a piece flat bar with a notch cut out. biggest problem would be keeping this thing from taking out the cooks eye while they stand in the galley, it would have to be mounted somewhere where is retracts into a outof the way place. --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "wild_explorer" wrote: > > Theboilerflue, just thoughts: There are not so many things I need to worry about in a "power away stage" boat beside good hull and engine. Door, hatches, windows, hand rails, ventilation, electric conduits. > > > Well WILD you've got a large project in mind with just the door, I >personally would to and keep things simple, > > Simple is good. That why I put a sketch about 180 deg door's hinges in the file section (same idea you describe, just illustration). But why not to make the door to be safe? > > I remember doors on a ship (I used to work) which used some simple latching mechanism on the floor (or cabin side?). You swing door open and it stays open. When you need to close it, you step on release pedal and close the door. It was something very simple. I am trying to remember how was it done. > > > Otherwise instead of building a fancy (but awesome) hatch mabey you'd be better off looking in some marine salvage yards for a locking hatch out of a big ship (or a safe). > > :) Not everybody has access to marine salvage yard or large dumpster with all kind of useful staff. > > Better to be able to make it by youself ;)) > | 21744|2417|2009-12-21 21:36:42|wild_explorer|Re: hatches (Vault)|I know you were talking about your door :) But you can make it safer at a very low cost ;) --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "theboilerflue" wrote: > > sorry that was a typo I meant I personally would keep things simple. ...my door... | 21745|2417|2009-12-21 22:00:31|wild_explorer|Re: hatches (Dumpster?)|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "theboilerflue" wrote: > > I'm assuming the danger is if the wind picks up and slams the door >on someone unsuspecting hand type of thing? Yes - haavy wind, bad sea conditions, etc. > biggest problem would be keeping this thing from taking out the > cooks eye while they stand in the galley, it would have to be > mounted somewhere where is retracts into a outof the way place. Nothing should sticks into a cabin. All moving part must be on a door side and slide along it. Preferred release type is by foot. You need both hands available when you boat rocks badly. I remember only that latch was on a cabin side with "L-shape on a pivot" activator. Door hits L-shape. L rotates, locks, and keep the door open. It was all based on gravity. Cannot remember that latch/release part. I, personally (if go simple), would prefer 180 deg door, which latches to a cabin side. In good weather you can keep it open. During bad weather, you need to keep it close anyway.| 21746|21698|2009-12-21 23:28:23|Paul Wilson|Re: Brent: Forward Shroud Chainplate location|On my 36 the jib sheet runs outside all the shrouds. The inner staysail sheet however runs between the upper shrouds and the forward lowers which run to the cabin top. With an overlapping staysail, the leech might rub and chafe on the forward lowers if they went to the rail. The cabin top is strong enough to anchor the lowers and it also makes it easier to walk forward, as mentioned. The forward lowers also make a nice handhold when you are near the mast. It's another one of Brent's great ideas. Cheers, Paul theboilerflue wrote: > > No you run the jib sheet outside all shrouds (at least on a 36') the > forward lowers are on my cabin grab rail as well I believe it's just > to open up that area a bit to make it easier to go forward, otherwise > it'd be like climbing through a narrow passage, this way it's just a > couple on your outboard side and then one stay, rather than having to > duck back and forth and then back - it's just back and forth with the > lower inside the walkway. It might allow a smaller innerforestay more > room as well or at least would give the jib a more gradual obstacle to > roll over, more rounded. > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > , "troller10" wrote: > > > > So, you would place the inner foresail between the main shroud, (on > the rail), and the forward shroud, (on the cabin top)? > > > > If one was going to run the sheet inside the main shroud, why not > just place the lower forward shroud on the rail and run the fore sail > sheet inside all of them? > > > > Or am I missing something here? > > > > thanks > > > > B Hamilton > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > , James Pronk wrote: > > > > > > I think the forward chainplates are placed on the cabin top to > clear the inner forsail when you are beating I think. > > > James > > > > > > --- On Thu, 12/17/09, troller10 wrote: > > > > > > > > > From: troller10 > > > Subject: [origamiboats] Brent: Forward Shroud Chainplate location > > > To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > > > Received: Thursday, December 17, 2009, 10:27 PM > > > > > > > > >  > > > > > > > > > > > > Hey Brent, > > > > > > On the 40 footer design, why is the forward chain plate located on > the cabin top and not on the rail, like the other chain plates? > > > > > > Also, the other chain plates show 1/2" pipe insert but the fwd > chain plate shows 3/4" pipe, (welded?). Any reason why the fwd chain > plate can not be put on the rail? > > > > > > Also the staysail mast connection shows side tangs for standing > rigging, where do they connect? On the rail? > > > > > > Things are picking up on New Adventure. > > > > > > Thanks in advance. > > > > > > Brien H > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________________ > > > Yahoo! Canada Toolbar: Search from anywhere on the web, and > bookmark your favourite sites. Download it now > > > http://ca.toolbar.yahoo.com > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > | 21748|21729|2009-12-22 06:39:29|southcoveemail|Re: BS 26' junk rig, centreboard|Hi Aaron, thanks for your reply. Painting the inside of the case on my current boat is not a problem. The case is 4" wide 5 1/2' long and 48" tall. It is built in 2 parts 20" plus 28" that bolt together on flanges 1" wide at floors level. I can reach inside from the top and the bottom without taking it apart. The centreboard does not wear the inside of the case because the board is mounted on (between) a galvanized frame including pivot hung from the top of the case with 8 bolts. The board comes out of the case from the top together with the frame leaving the hole clear of obstructions. At the building stage I put 12 coats of epoxy tar so it is still as good as new. Apart from that I admit that a board is a complication and that a draft of 3' 10" is acceptable. The advantage of the board is the better maneuverability and also the warning it gives when sailing in shallow waters before running aground. I don't use a depthsounder. Also the boat is much more compact dried out or on land. But all that is probably less relevant on a 26' than on a 35' boat. If I am to rig as a junk the deeper draft makes sense and fitting a depth sounder might be a good idea. I also can see the extra tankage in a fixed keel. The junk rig would allow a large tender abaft the mast. The tender would more or less replace the cabin so the profile of the boat would be similar to the original. I agree about welding in stern tube, keel coolers and engine bed even without an engine. Do you have pictures of your boat somewhere online? What is your cruising area? What is your interior plan? What is the size of the cockpit? What is the size of the pilot house? Thanks Cheers Thierry --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, aaron riis wrote: > > > hello Thierry, > I built  a 26 single keel with a wheel house.  it draws about 3 foot 10 empty.  Winston told me that he would never build a centerboard in one again because of the difficulty of painting the inside.  you only have about 10 feet from the stem to the mast, so a large dinghy is difficult.  Even if I built an engineless boat, I would weld in the preparations for an engine should you change your mind.  The single keel should give you 30 to 40 gallons of extra tankage.  I don't know of anyone who has put a junk rig on one > just a few thoughts,  Aaron | 21749|21731|2009-12-22 06:43:55|southcoveemail|Re: Links to origami boats in French or German|Thanks James but there is no point as this site site is originally in English and translated into German. I am looking for original French or German sites. Cheers Thierry --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, James Pronk wrote: > > This is a link to the Yago Project and it is in German > http://www.yago-project.com/component/option,com_frontpage/Itemid,1/lang,ger/ | 21750|21730|2009-12-22 06:49:38|southcoveemail|Re: Offline posts reading|Hi David, > The archives for old messages! I don't understand what you mean. In the files section someone probably did the work of putting old posts in a file. Was it manual work or is there a way to compile the archives otherwise? Thanks. Cheers, Thierry| 21751|21730|2009-12-22 08:30:37|sae140|Re: Offline posts reading|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "southcoveemail" wrote: > > Hi David, > > > The archives for old messages! > > I don't understand what you mean. > > In the files section someone probably did the work of putting old posts in a file. > > Was it manual work or is there a way to compile the archives otherwise? > > Thanks. > > Cheers, > > Thierry > Manual work. Extremely tedious. (2001-3) Then somebody else had a go. Guess they must have found it tedious too. Would be extremely useful if there was an automatic way of compiling posts by the year, or even 3-monthly for when the airwaves become active. Any computer wizzo's out there who could write a suitable script ? Colin| 21752|21698|2009-12-22 19:50:40|theboilerflue|Re: Brent: Forward Shroud Chainplate location|Hmmm... is your inner staysail small enough to fit into that nook between the shrouds Paul? mine laps over the main shrouds a foot or two so I could never see running a sheet in between is that standard on these boat, (I'm not trying to be funny) I got my sails off a BS36 with a 48 foot mast and so figured my sails would be a couple feet too big. --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Paul Wilson wrote: > > On my 36 the jib sheet runs outside all the shrouds. The inner staysail > sheet however runs between the upper shrouds and the forward lowers > which run to the cabin top. With an overlapping staysail, the leech > might rub and chafe on the forward lowers if they went to the rail. The > cabin top is strong enough to anchor the lowers and it also makes it > easier to walk forward, as mentioned. The forward lowers also make a > nice handhold when you are near the mast. It's another one of Brent's > great ideas. > > Cheers, Paul > > theboilerflue wrote: > > > > No you run the jib sheet outside all shrouds (at least on a 36') the > > forward lowers are on my cabin grab rail as well I believe it's just > > to open up that area a bit to make it easier to go forward, otherwise > > it'd be like climbing through a narrow passage, this way it's just a > > couple on your outboard side and then one stay, rather than having to > > duck back and forth and then back - it's just back and forth with the > > lower inside the walkway. It might allow a smaller innerforestay more > > room as well or at least would give the jib a more gradual obstacle to > > roll over, more rounded. > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > , "troller10" wrote: > > > > > > So, you would place the inner foresail between the main shroud, (on > > the rail), and the forward shroud, (on the cabin top)? > > > > > > If one was going to run the sheet inside the main shroud, why not > > just place the lower forward shroud on the rail and run the fore sail > > sheet inside all of them? > > > > > > Or am I missing something here? > > > > > > thanks > > > > > > B Hamilton > > > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > , James Pronk wrote: > > > > > > > > I think the forward chainplates are placed on the cabin top to > > clear the inner forsail when you are beating I think. > > > > James > > > > > > > > --- On Thu, 12/17/09, troller10 wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > From: troller10 > > > > Subject: [origamiboats] Brent: Forward Shroud Chainplate location > > > > To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > Received: Thursday, December 17, 2009, 10:27 PM > > > > > > > > > > > >  > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hey Brent, > > > > > > > > On the 40 footer design, why is the forward chain plate located on > > the cabin top and not on the rail, like the other chain plates? > > > > > > > > Also, the other chain plates show 1/2" pipe insert but the fwd > > chain plate shows 3/4" pipe, (welded?). Any reason why the fwd chain > > plate can not be put on the rail? > > > > > > > > Also the staysail mast connection shows side tangs for standing > > rigging, where do they connect? On the rail? > > > > > > > > Things are picking up on New Adventure. > > > > > > > > Thanks in advance. > > > > > > > > Brien H > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________________ > > > > Yahoo! Canada Toolbar: Search from anywhere on the web, and > > bookmark your favourite sites. Download it now > > > > http://ca.toolbar.yahoo.com > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > | 21753|21753|2009-12-22 20:33:31|theboilerflue|Here you go, you sketchy brandless painters|http://vancouver.en.craigslist.ca/rds/boa/1520915948.html Might be good? If you're looking for cheap paint in Vancouver area| 21754|21698|2009-12-22 22:24:14|brentswain38|Re: Brent: Forward Shroud Chainplate location|Putting the foreward chainplates on the cabin sides lets you add an extra 3 feet onto the foot of the staysail, making it a far more usefull size. It also reduces it's aspect ratio, making the sheeting angle far less critical.I do that with all my designs, except the 26. It also gives you one less shroud to duck under going foreward. As the foreward lower shrouds are for fore and aft staying of the mast, there is no advantage in putting them on the rail. A 3/4 inch ss sch 40 pipe across them makes a good seat when working the halyards, eliminating the need for a mast pulpit. Half inch stainless liners are all you need for any of them, as they are 5/8th ID, and take a half inch bolt on the turnbuckle. I connect those intermediate upper shrouds to the spreader ends with the turnbuckles on their inboard ends on the mast tangs, and the outboard ends clamped to the upper shrouds . These stop the tendency for the mast to go into an S shape under heavy load. Chay Blythe mentions this problem in his book on his windward circumnavigation in British Steel. --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "troller10" wrote: > > Hey Brent, > > On the 40 footer design, why is the forward chain plate located on the cabin top and not on the rail, like the other chain plates? > > Also, the other chain plates show 1/2" pipe insert but the fwd chain plate shows 3/4" pipe, (welded?). Any reason why the fwd chain plate can not be put on the rail? > > Also the staysail mast connection shows side tangs for standing rigging, where do they connect? On the rail? > > Things are picking up on New Adventure. > > Thanks in advance. > > Brien H > | 21755|2417|2009-12-22 22:31:47|brentswain38|Re: hatches|I put the handle on the main hatch at 90 degrees to the dog. That way you have to lift the handle in order to close the hatch completely.Otherwise the handle hangs down and stops the dog from fitting inside the coaming. On the outboard end, I put a handrail inside, so you will grab the handrail instead of the hatch coaming. The handrail is too far inside to let the hatch damage your fingers if it should close accidentaly. Haven't had a problem in 33 years of cruising 11 months a year. The forehatch, if it is 1/8th aluminium, and you don't do as some do and bolt enough heavy wood to it to make it as heavy as steel, is too light to do any serious dammage. Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "wild_explorer" wrote: > > > > Some one was concerned about cutting fingers off by hatch cover and the edge of hatch opening. There is an idea. > > Use the same hatch, but put couple of small "scissor" car jacks ($5 on car junk yard)inside opening and connect it to the hatch cover and hatch opening (connected on pivots?). Same principle as an emergency hatch on a bus. > > Pros: > > You cannot cut you fingers off unless you intentionally put it between edge and cover and crank the jack down. If you put it on "90 deg" slide inside hutch opening, you can reposition open hutch 90 deg and adjust it as necessary. > > Cons: > > Unable to open or close hatch fast in an emergency. Solution - fast disengage couplers or hybrid type (2 stages). Allows to open/close big opening fast and crank down small opening tight. > > Advantage: > > Because all mechanisms are inside, no need for external pivots (improves outside look). With fast disengage couplers, hatch cover could be completely removed for loading something through hatch opening. > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Mark K" wrote: > > > > It is possible to loop the torsion bar back to make its length twice > > the hatche's width. Think of it as two springs which are mirror > > images of each other. Mount one to the hatch carling and the other to > > the hatch on the same side. Now connect the two free ends together. > > If you were actually making one you would simply bend the whole thing > > out of one piece. You should get something that looks like this (if > > my ascii art comes out right): > > > > This end mounted to hatch with strap. > > |________ > > ________| <-- This end loosly affixed to something. > > | > > This end mounted to carling with strap. > > > > In truck box practice the steel lids open less than 90deg. Two > > springs are generally used, mounted on opposite sides and crossing in > > the middle, each about 1/8 - 3/16 diameter and 18" long. > > > > It would probably be worthwhile to compute the fatigue life with > > whatever material you were using, especially for a customer's boat. > > That info is generally available. > > > > - Markk > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, wrote: > > > Thanks Mark, > > > > > > It sounds like the torsion bar would be well suited to a hatch with > > a long hinge, where in effect the torsion bar is a spring that has not > > been wound into a coil. It sounds like such a device could be > > attached on the outside of the hatch between the hinges, but on a > > short hinge, fatigue might become an issue with frequent use. > > > | 21756|2417|2009-12-22 22:37:47|brentswain38|Re: hatches|There is no such thing as a slider that works well, or is as watertight or simple to use as a door. If you have enough slope on the door to put the top of it at the same point as a slider would be on a vertical cabin back ,there is no difference in the ease of getting in or out. Sliders are a primitve throwback. Keeping the door narrow enough( but wide enough to get your engine in ) is the trick. I've put a cutout in the foreward end of the backrest on the coaming to let the door fit in . You don't need 180 degrees ,170 has worked well on my boat for decades. --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "troller10" wrote: > > I am currently in the process of installing the main hatch on my 40 footer and am having considerable deliberation over how to get the door to swing 180 degrees, (so it can open flush against the cabin side), without needing a wide gap on the outside edge, (to accommodate the outside swinging toward the sealing edge as it opens). I am considering a sliding hatch. Has anyone ever done a slider that works well? > > Brien H > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "wild_explorer" wrote: > > > > > > > > Some one was concerned about cutting fingers off by hatch cover and the edge of hatch opening. There is an idea. > > > > Use the same hatch, but put couple of small "scissor" car jacks ($5 on car junk yard)inside opening and connect it to the hatch cover and hatch opening (connected on pivots?). Same principle as an emergency hatch on a bus. > > > > Pros: > > > > You cannot cut you fingers off unless you intentionally put it between edge and cover and crank the jack down. If you put it on "90 deg" slide inside hutch opening, you can reposition open hutch 90 deg and adjust it as necessary. > > > > Cons: > > > > Unable to open or close hatch fast in an emergency. Solution - fast disengage couplers or hybrid type (2 stages). Allows to open/close big opening fast and crank down small opening tight. > > > > Advantage: > > > > Because all mechanisms are inside, no need for external pivots (improves outside look). With fast disengage couplers, hatch cover could be completely removed for loading something through hatch opening. > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Mark K" wrote: > > > > > > It is possible to loop the torsion bar back to make its length twice > > > the hatche's width. Think of it as two springs which are mirror > > > images of each other. Mount one to the hatch carling and the other to > > > the hatch on the same side. Now connect the two free ends together. > > > If you were actually making one you would simply bend the whole thing > > > out of one piece. You should get something that looks like this (if > > > my ascii art comes out right): > > > > > > This end mounted to hatch with strap. > > > |________ > > > ________| <-- This end loosly affixed to something. > > > | > > > This end mounted to carling with strap. > > > > > > In truck box practice the steel lids open less than 90deg. Two > > > springs are generally used, mounted on opposite sides and crossing in > > > the middle, each about 1/8 - 3/16 diameter and 18" long. > > > > > > It would probably be worthwhile to compute the fatigue life with > > > whatever material you were using, especially for a customer's boat. > > > That info is generally available. > > > > > > - Markk > > > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, wrote: > > > > Thanks Mark, > > > > > > > > It sounds like the torsion bar would be well suited to a hatch with > > > a long hinge, where in effect the torsion bar is a spring that has not > > > been wound into a coil. It sounds like such a device could be > > > attached on the outside of the hatch between the hinges, but on a > > > short hinge, fatigue might become an issue with frequent use. > > > > > > | 21757|2417|2009-12-22 22:40:16|brentswain38|Re: hatches|Keeping the hinge pintel as close to the coaming as possible should eliminate any wide gap. --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "wild_explorer" wrote: > > > > Original Brent's design for main hatch (door) should work just fine for 180 deg swing opening. May be I am missing something, but what wide gap are you talking about? > > If you want to go for a slide type door opening, it would be better to use "2 stages" mechanism (If staying outside: pull door toward you - slide it aside on the slide guide). Quite simple design, but such hinges require some precision in manufacturing and initial door alignment, plus more moving parts. > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "troller10" wrote: > > > > I am currently in the process of installing the main hatch on my 40 footer and am having considerable deliberation over how to get the door to swing 180 degrees, (so it can open flush against the cabin side), without needing a wide gap on the outside edge, (to accommodate the outside swinging toward the sealing edge as it opens). I am considering a sliding hatch. Has anyone ever done a slider that works well? > > > > Brien H > | 21758|21718|2009-12-22 22:47:44|brentswain38|Re: skeg thickness|Yes . It comes off the ends of the hull cutout. --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, martin demers wrote: > > > > Hi Brent, > do you use 3/16 plate for the skeg? > Martin. > To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > From: skovian@... > Date: Sun, 20 Dec 2009 00:48:24 +0000 > Subject: [origamiboats] steel thickness > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hey everybody, > > > > I have watched the video and read the book and feel comfortable with the process. Another person in my area was going to start a different build but has abandoned the project. He will sell my his steel for a steal. However, it's 1/4" and not 3/16" like the materials list specifies. BTW, I would build a 40' boat. How would using 1/4" steel affect this? > > > > Thanks for the info, > > > > Michael > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Windows Live : vos amis voient plus facilement ce que vous faites sur Facebook. > http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9691826 > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > | 21759|21698|2009-12-22 22:55:22|brentswain38|Re: Brent: Forward Shroud Chainplate location|The leech of the staysail woukld hit and chafe on the foreward lower shroud if it were on the rail. --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "troller10" wrote: > > So, you would place the inner foresail between the main shroud, (on the rail), and the forward shroud, (on the cabin top)? > > If one was going to run the sheet inside the main shroud, why not just place the lower forward shroud on the rail and run the fore sail sheet inside all of them? > > Or am I missing something here? > > thanks > > B Hamilton > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, James Pronk wrote: > > > > I think the forward chainplates are placed on the cabin top to clear the inner forsail when you are beating I think. > > James > > > > --- On Thu, 12/17/09, troller10 wrote: > > > > > > From: troller10 > > Subject: [origamiboats] Brent: Forward Shroud Chainplate location > > To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > Received: Thursday, December 17, 2009, 10:27 PM > > > > > >  > > > > > > > > Hey Brent, > > > > On the 40 footer design, why is the forward chain plate located on the cabin top and not on the rail, like the other chain plates? > > > > Also, the other chain plates show 1/2" pipe insert but the fwd chain plate shows 3/4" pipe, (welded?). Any reason why the fwd chain plate can not be put on the rail? > > > > Also the staysail mast connection shows side tangs for standing rigging, where do they connect? On the rail? > > > > Things are picking up on New Adventure. > > > > Thanks in advance. > > > > Brien H > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________________________ > > Yahoo! Canada Toolbar: Search from anywhere on the web, and bookmark your favourite sites. Download it now > > http://ca.toolbar.yahoo.com > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > | 21760|21760|2009-12-22 23:18:21|theboilerflue|Knowsley Winches|Anyone ever heard of Knowsley Winches somebody dropped a couple off on my boat they look just big enough just for a 36 but I can't find any info on them, on the internet, all the winches have on them is Knowsley and England they're about 6 1/4" across the base. They ave been cut off, the bolts on there under side can only be accessed after removing the drum it looks like, and I can't figure out how to take off the centre cap it has a set screw but that's the only fastener you can get at. The only info I found on the web was two posts one asking about how to get the centre cap out and the other offering what sounds like the same winches for sale used in England.| 21761|2417|2009-12-23 02:41:17|wild_explorer|Re: hatches (Door)|Something wrong with me! Brent's door IS NOT 90 deg (perpendicular) to a deck! It is about 60 deg or so. It will just rest on the cabin side because of gravity. So, the door's safety catcher for Brent's door to keep it in open position is just "nice to have things" for improved safety (not really necessary). Personally, I would like to have one. Still working on it. My mind get stuck with commercial ship's doors which are 90 deg to a deck and need such door's safety catchers. These doors are easier to swing back. Somebody mentioned to me about angle of Brent's door, but I missed that point. Sorry, folks! --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "brentswain38" wrote: > > There is no such thing as a slider that works well, or is as watertight or simple to use as a door. If you have enough slope on the door to put the top of it at the same point as a slider would be on a vertical cabin back ,there is no difference in the ease of getting in or out. Sliders are a primitve throwback. Keeping the door narrow enough( but wide enough to get your engine in ) is the trick. I've put a cutout in the foreward end of the backrest on the coaming to let the door fit in . You don't need 180 degrees ,170 has worked well on my boat for decades. > | 21762|2417|2009-12-23 10:46:35|GP|Re: hatches (Dumpster?)|One of the pins supporting my main hatch is threaded (it would be better for the following if they both were). To keep the door from slamming I placed a 1 inch wide plastic washer cut from plastic pipe over the thread, then a bolt over top which I tighten down on the plastic which creates resistance to the hatch opening/closing. This is a simple near instant solution (if threaded pins) and works and I can keep the hatch open halfway or any position for convenience of getting in and out of the cabin without opening/closing the hatch. --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "wild_explorer" wrote: > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "theboilerflue" wrote: > > > > I'm assuming the danger is if the wind picks up and slams the door >on someone unsuspecting hand type of thing? > > Yes - haavy wind, bad sea conditions, etc. > > > biggest problem would be keeping this thing from taking out the > > cooks eye while they stand in the galley, it would have to be > > mounted somewhere where is retracts into a outof the way place. > > Nothing should sticks into a cabin. All moving part must be on a door side and slide along it. > > Preferred release type is by foot. You need both hands available when you boat rocks badly. > > I remember only that latch was on a cabin side with "L-shape on a pivot" activator. Door hits L-shape. L rotates, locks, and keep the door open. It was all based on gravity. Cannot remember that latch/release part. > > I, personally (if go simple), would prefer 180 deg door, which latches to a cabin side. In good weather you can keep it open. During bad weather, you need to keep it close anyway. > | 21763|2417|2009-12-23 15:24:50|wild_explorer|Re: hatches (friction washer in the hinge)|Agree, it is a good idea to put some friction washer in the hinge. Friction material need to be softer than hinge's material (easier to replace washer than the hinge). --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "GP" wrote: > > One of the pins supporting my main hatch is threaded (it would be better for the following if they both were). To keep the door from slamming I placed a 1 inch wide plastic washer cut from plastic pipe over the thread, then a bolt over top which I tighten down on the plastic which creates resistance to the hatch opening/closing. This is a simple near instant solution (if threaded pins) and works and I can keep the hatch open halfway or any position for convenience of getting in and out of the cabin without opening/closing the hatch. > | 21764|2417|2009-12-23 17:46:58|wild_explorer|Re: hatches (Door - cylinders and 180 deg opening)|How about the cylinder mounted inside the cabin, with free other end and roller on it, which rests on the door? It will need some kind of rod support to keep cylinder on track of cause. The advantage: when cylinder is fully extended, door keeps swinging to 180 deg opening. When door swings back, cylinder catch it and start working - cautioning door close. Somebody help me with the details. May be after holidays? I know you are busy shopping now ;)) > > As I've mentioned, 180-opening hatches just need a clevis pin that > releases the braking mechanism. > | 21765|21729|2009-12-23 19:44:21|aaron riis|Re: BS 26' junk rig, centreboard|Thierry, I didn't put any cockpit coamings, later i may build some seats out of plywood with backrests.  Im on the canadian west coast, Haida Gwaii, plan on sailing around here to start with anyway.  The boat I built has about four and a half or five feet of cockpit in the stern.  A seat built across above the tiller increases the cockpit space as well as giving a good view over the wheelhouse.  The wheelhouse is about four feet long housing the galley inside.  In front of that two bunks either side run up to the mast step.   My mast will be deck stepped, something I don't think that you could do with a freestanding mast.  In the eighteen inches in front of that I have a head on one side, and a woodstove on the other.  in front of that is a berth.   some people have built 27 footers, ten percent bigger.  Also some people get more interior space by not cutting out the sheerline in the pattern.  The extra beam of the 27 would be nice. -Aaron --- On Tue, 12/22/09, southcoveemail wrote: From: southcoveemail Subject: [origamiboats] Re: BS 26' junk rig, centreboard To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Received: Tuesday, December 22, 2009, 3:37 AM   Hi Aaron, thanks for your reply. Painting the inside of the case on my current boat is not a problem. The case is 4" wide 5 1/2' long and 48" tall. It is built in 2 parts 20" plus 28" that bolt together on flanges 1" wide at floors level. I can reach inside from the top and the bottom without taking it apart. The centreboard does not wear the inside of the case because the board is mounted on (between) a galvanized frame including pivot hung from the top of the case with 8 bolts.. The board comes out of the case from the top together with the frame leaving the hole clear of obstructions. At the building stage I put 12 coats of epoxy tar so it is still as good as new. Apart from that I admit that a board is a complication and that a draft of 3' 10" is acceptable. The advantage of the board is the better maneuverability and also the warning it gives when sailing in shallow waters before running aground. I don't use a depthsounder. Also the boat is much more compact dried out or on land. But all that is probably less relevant on a 26' than on a 35' boat. If I am to rig as a junk the deeper draft makes sense and fitting a depth sounder might be a good idea. I also can see the extra tankage in a fixed keel. The junk rig would allow a large tender abaft the mast. The tender would more or less replace the cabin so the profile of the boat would be similar to the original. I agree about welding in stern tube, keel coolers and engine bed even without an engine. Do you have pictures of your boat somewhere online? What is your cruising area? What is your interior plan? What is the size of the cockpit? What is the size of the pilot house? Thanks Cheers Thierry --- In origamiboats@ yahoogroups. com, aaron riis wrote: > > > hello Thierry, > I built  a 26 single keel with a wheel house.  it draws about 3 foot 10 empty.  Winston told me that he would never build a centerboard in one again because of the difficulty of painting the inside.  you only have about 10 feet from the stem to the mast, so a large dinghy is difficult.  Even if I built an engineless boat, I would weld in the preparations for an engine should you change your mind.  The single keel should give you 30 to 40 gallons of extra tankage.  I don't know of anyone who has put a junk rig on one > just a few thoughts,  Aaron __________________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Canada Toolbar: Search from anywhere on the web, and bookmark your favourite sites. Download it now http://ca.toolbar.yahoo.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 21766|21624|2009-12-23 22:50:17|peter_d_wiley|Re: butt welding ontop of existing plates|Friend of mine recently bought a MIG welder, brought it down to my place so we could play with it. It was loaded with 0.9mm flux cored wire. I found that with minimal playing, I could do a vertical down butt weld in 5.5mm plate set with a root gap of approx 2-3 mm and get better than 50% penetration. No V prep, just clean plate edges. It was very difficult to break that weld even pounding on it in a big vise with a 3 kg hammer. Running a grinder down the back side and running another bead would have given pretty near 100% fusion. I didn't try to break that one, I knew I couldn't. I agree with you about thin wire but there does seem to be different rules for flux cored. FWIW I recently had to butt weld some 200 x 40 bars together. I didn't use a MIG. Iron powder electrodes are nice for jobs like that. Gil Klingel discusses the use of threaded rod to restrain plate; same method would work fine as a patch. If I was doing one I'd tack restraints out of flat bar or similar across the bad area before removing the bit of plate. The hull isn't going to move on you then. PDW --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Gary H. Lucas" wrote: > > Did you catch what he did wrong with the Mig welder? He mentions his welds > cracking from lack of penetration. Then he fits the plates with a gap to > get better penetration. That's a good idea. However, I'll bet you $100 > he's using 0.035" welding wire or smaller! Yeah, yeah I know, in the hands > of a REAL expert you can get perfect welds with 0.035". But how long before > this guy will be that good? Better to just move up to 0.045" wire and get > good penetration all the time. Did I mention how much faster your welding > would get done? > > Gary H. Lucas > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "sae140" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 2009 6:18 PM > Subject: [origamiboats] Re: butt welding ontop of existing plates > > > Been checking around to see what others do .... > > Nothing in Tom Colvin's 'Steel Boatbuilding', which surprises me. > > Interesting webpage at: http://www.thecoastalpassage.com/patchsteel.html > showing a method of fitting a simple curved plate using wedges. > > Even better are the following 2 pages which show very graphically the reason > why a steel hull needs to be painted properly at the time of construction, > and why teak should NEVER be layed onto a steel deck. > 'nuff to make a grown man cry .... > http://www.thecoastalpassage.com/rust-paint.html > http://www.thecoastalpassage.com/rust.html > | 21767|2417|2009-12-23 23:36:13|theboilerflue|Re: hatches (Dumpster?)|You could even rig it so that it only rubs against the plastic in a certain part of it's rotation like near full open --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "GP" wrote: > > One of the pins supporting my main hatch is threaded (it would be better for the following if they both were). To keep the door from slamming I placed a 1 inch wide plastic washer cut from plastic pipe over the thread, then a bolt over top which I tighten down on the plastic which creates resistance to the hatch opening/closing. This is a simple near instant solution (if threaded pins) and works and I can keep the hatch open halfway or any position for convenience of getting in and out of the cabin without opening/closing the hatch. > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "wild_explorer" wrote: > > > > > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "theboilerflue" wrote: > > > > > > I'm assuming the danger is if the wind picks up and slams the door >on someone unsuspecting hand type of thing? > > > > Yes - haavy wind, bad sea conditions, etc. > > > > > biggest problem would be keeping this thing from taking out the > > > cooks eye while they stand in the galley, it would have to be > > > mounted somewhere where is retracts into a outof the way place. > > > > Nothing should sticks into a cabin. All moving part must be on a door side and slide along it. > > > > Preferred release type is by foot. You need both hands available when you boat rocks badly. > > > > I remember only that latch was on a cabin side with "L-shape on a pivot" activator. Door hits L-shape. L rotates, locks, and keep the door open. It was all based on gravity. Cannot remember that latch/release part. > > > > I, personally (if go simple), would prefer 180 deg door, which latches to a cabin side. In good weather you can keep it open. During bad weather, you need to keep it close anyway. > > > | 21768|22|2009-12-24 01:06:20|caslingm|Re: carbon build up|I have owned one of these engines since new in 1979. They are a solid motor. I have never had a problem with carbon build up, even after hours of trolling for fish. The compression has to remain high and the injectors must fire cleanly. The starter motor also needs to be in good condition. They are about impossible to hand crank. The handle is not long enough. You can use the decompression lever, but then it will not develop heat and not fire. Best to make sure the above is in good order and so is the battery. They are a real diesel and heavy. The 2QM15 has more grunt than my GM20. The QM is 14 hp continuous and the GM is 16, but the older QM has more power at lower revs. The GM does start a bit easier in chilly weather. If the QM is raw water cooled, it is set to run at about 160F so that the salt will remain with the water when it exits. If they run hotter the salt will stay in the water chambers. Run at the correct temperature they should last for over thirty years. HTH Michael --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, aaron riis wrote: > > I just bought a 30 year old yanmar 2qm 15.  It looks like the reason that the previous owner got rid of it is the wet exhaust not only corroded out the water exhaust mixer,(is that what you call it) but caused such a build up of carbon that it effectively blocked the exhaust and stopped the engine.  It makes sense to me that right where it cools, carbon would build up, I have heard stories that in the arctic, diesel trucks that drive around at low speeds have such a problem with carbon build up that companies pay guys to run them hard to burn off the carbon.  I haven't tried to start it up yet, but this seems like a good reason to go with a dry exhaust.    I like this engine, especially because it has a hand crank start, i would rather go with this one  than to bolt a new engine on to the gear.  Does anyone have any experience with carbon build up? can it cause valve dammage, or just gum them up enough to not work?    -Aaron > > --- On Sun, 12/13/09, origamiboats@yahoogroups.com wrote: > > > From: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [origamiboats] New file uploaded to origamiboats > To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > Received: Sunday, December 13, 2009, 10:57 AM > > >   > > > > > Hello, > > This email message is a notification to let you know that > a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the origamiboats > group. > > File : /Imagiro Boats./265Rpic1. jpg > Uploaded by : yvesmariedetanton > Description : 265 Imagiro 45. Custom. > > You can access this file at the URL: > http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/origamiboa ts/files/ Imagiro%20Boats. /265Rpic1. jpg > > To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit: > http://help. yahoo.com/ l/us/yahoo/ groups/original/ members/forms/ general.htmlfile s > > Regards, > > yvesmariedetanton > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________________________ > Make your browsing faster, safer, and easier with the new Internet Explorer® 8. Optimized for Yahoo! Get it Now for Free! at http://downloads.yahoo.com/ca/internetexplorer/ > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > | 21769|21730|2009-12-24 10:40:12|Ben Okopnik|Re: Offline posts reading|On Tue, Dec 22, 2009 at 01:30:26PM -0000, sae140 wrote: > > Would be extremely useful if there was an automatic way of compiling > posts by the year, or even 3-monthly for when the airwaves become > active. > > Any computer wizzo's out there who could write a suitable script ? Yahoo has a mechanism in place to stop that kind of post retrieval. Ever notice how every 3rd or 5th one (or whatever) that you try to read via the Web interface comes up with an ad? That's one of the reasons I wish this forum was on Google Groups, or privately hosted. Not having access to a full archive is a *big* loss of functionality, in my opinion. -- OKOPNIK CONSULTING Custom Computing Solutions For Your Business Expert-led Training | Dynamic, vital websites | Custom programming 443-250-7895 http://okopnik.com| 21770|21730|2009-12-24 16:56:17|wild_explorer|Re: Offline posts reading|May be it would be a good idea for a smooth transition to Google groups service? Not starting the group with new name, just start posting messages in Google group named the same? Just need to organize new group better. Split messages by related subject (engine, hull, welding, interior, etc) OR create sub-groups (like engine.origamiboats.***, interior.origamiboats.***, etc). It will be better organized, easier to read, post and follow. Google has more space for pictures, documents, files and more tools to edit it than Yahoo. Goggle groups have better search options too. I do not see any option in Yahoo group to sort messages by "member" (posted by only that member). What do you think Alex(moderator of this group)? Let say, last message of this group would be "Please post all messages in new group starting Jan 1 2010" and link to a new group ;) All people can keep the same aliases in Google group as here. All messages in present group could be put in the file (manually) to be preserved. It is a big job, but I can do it (I read it anyway message by message). Most people just read this group without posting. The transition will affect only active members who post in present group. But, I believe, advantages of Google group will outweight the inconvenience to create Google account (to be able to post in new group). >That's one of the reasons I wish > this forum was on Google Groups, or privately hosted. Not having access > to a full archive is a *big* loss of functionality, in my opinion. | 21771|21730|2009-12-24 21:09:51|James Pronk|Re: Offline posts reading|I do not think there is anything wrong with this group, Why do you want to change it. How long have you been in this group, one or two months. I like the yahoo groups James    --- On Thu, 12/24/09, wild_explorer wrote: From: wild_explorer Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Offline posts reading To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Received: Thursday, December 24, 2009, 4:54 PM   May be it would be a good idea for a smooth transition to Google groups service? Not starting the group with new name, just start posting messages in Google group named the same? Just need to organize new group better. Split messages by related subject (engine, hull, welding, interior, etc) OR create sub-groups (like engine.origamiboats .***, interior.origamiboa ts.***, etc). It will be better organized, easier to read, post and follow. Google has more space for pictures, documents, files and more tools to edit it than Yahoo. Goggle groups have better search options too. I do not see any option in Yahoo group to sort messages by "member" (posted by only that member). What do you think Alex(moderator of this group)? Let say, last message of this group would be "Please post all messages in new group starting Jan 1 2010" and link to a new group ;) All people can keep the same aliases in Google group as here. All messages in present group could be put in the file (manually) to be preserved. It is a big job, but I can do it (I read it anyway message by message). Most people just read this group without posting. The transition will affect only active members who post in present group. But, I believe, advantages of Google group will outweight the inconvenience to create Google account (to be able to post in new group). >That's one of the reasons I wish > this forum was on Google Groups, or privately hosted. Not having access > to a full archive is a *big* loss of functionality, in my opinion. __________________________________________________________________ Looking for the perfect gift? Give the gift of Flickr! http://www.flickr.com/gift/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 21772|21730|2009-12-25 07:21:46|sae140|Re: Offline posts reading|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Ben Okopnik wrote: > > On Tue, Dec 22, 2009 at 01:30:26PM -0000, sae140 wrote: > > > > Would be extremely useful if there was an automatic way of compiling > > posts by the year, or even 3-monthly for when the airwaves become > > active. > > > > Any computer wizzo's out there who could write a suitable script ? > > Yahoo has a mechanism in place to stop that kind of post retrieval. Ever > notice how every 3rd or 5th one (or whatever) that you try to read via > the Web interface comes up with an ad? That's one of the reasons I wish > this forum was on Google Groups, or privately hosted. Not having access > to a full archive is a *big* loss of functionality, in my opinion. > Ads ? I've never seen what you describe. (Using Firefox with Flashblock - dunno if that's relevant ?) I guess what I had in mind was working with one of those programs which emulate mouse cursor location and clicks, as (of course) it's possible to read earlier posts a few at a time, by manually clicking on the 'older' messages button. I found the REALLY tedious bit was copying the text and pasting into a .txt file. Editing the text is also tedious and has to be done by hand - some of the posts use unclipped quoted material several levels deep. IMHO - what's really needed is a file which contains what I would call 'hard data' about Origami, so if anyone fancies taking on such a job, many of Brent's posts would form a basic core around which to work. Materials data, building tips, reasons why something is done a certain way, and why not etc.| 21773|2417|2009-12-25 09:19:37|boatwayupnorth|Re: hatches|Brien, have a look at this thread in another forum: http://www.metalboatbuilding.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=62&t=164 Must be the "Mercedes of sliding hatches". A bit too advanced for me, but it should be possible to work up something similar with less frills. Walter --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "troller10" wrote: > > I am currently in the process of installing the main hatch on my 40 footer and am having considerable deliberation over how to get the door to swing 180 degrees, (so it can open flush against the cabin side), without needing a wide gap on the outside edge, (to accommodate the outside swinging toward the sealing edge as it opens). I am considering a sliding hatch. Has anyone ever done a slider that works well? > > Brien H > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "wild_explorer" wrote: > > > > > > > > Some one was concerned about cutting fingers off by hatch cover and the edge of hatch opening. There is an idea. > > > > Use the same hatch, but put couple of small "scissor" car jacks ($5 on car junk yard)inside opening and connect it to the hatch cover and hatch opening (connected on pivots?). Same principle as an emergency hatch on a bus. > > > > Pros: > > > > You cannot cut you fingers off unless you intentionally put it between edge and cover and crank the jack down. If you put it on "90 deg" slide inside hutch opening, you can reposition open hutch 90 deg and adjust it as necessary. > > > > Cons: > > > > Unable to open or close hatch fast in an emergency. Solution - fast disengage couplers or hybrid type (2 stages). Allows to open/close big opening fast and crank down small opening tight. > > > > Advantage: > > > > Because all mechanisms are inside, no need for external pivots (improves outside look). With fast disengage couplers, hatch cover could be completely removed for loading something through hatch opening. > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Mark K" wrote: > > > > > > It is possible to loop the torsion bar back to make its length twice > > > the hatche's width. Think of it as two springs which are mirror > > > images of each other. Mount one to the hatch carling and the other to > > > the hatch on the same side. Now connect the two free ends together. > > > If you were actually making one you would simply bend the whole thing > > > out of one piece. You should get something that looks like this (if > > > my ascii art comes out right): > > > > > > This end mounted to hatch with strap. > > > |________ > > > ________| <-- This end loosly affixed to something. > > > | > > > This end mounted to carling with strap. > > > > > > In truck box practice the steel lids open less than 90deg. Two > > > springs are generally used, mounted on opposite sides and crossing in > > > the middle, each about 1/8 - 3/16 diameter and 18" long. > > > > > > It would probably be worthwhile to compute the fatigue life with > > > whatever material you were using, especially for a customer's boat. > > > That info is generally available. > > > > > > - Markk > > > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, wrote: > > > > Thanks Mark, > > > > > > > > It sounds like the torsion bar would be well suited to a hatch with > > > a long hinge, where in effect the torsion bar is a spring that has not > > > been wound into a coil. It sounds like such a device could be > > > attached on the outside of the hatch between the hinges, but on a > > > short hinge, fatigue might become an issue with frequent use. > > > > > > | 21774|21774|2009-12-25 12:48:46|sitefix|Thanks everyone|Merry Christmas and Best Wishes for a Happy New Year!! Not only do I enjoy ready all the post, I have learned much. I do look forward to continuing such. Thanks again and Best Wishes to all. Mac| 21775|21730|2009-12-25 13:17:02|wild_explorer|Re: Offline posts reading|Moving the group to another host is not about the group itself. There is NOTHING wrong with this group. Great people, great ideas. Moderator working hard to keep it organized and spam free. It is more about Yahoo group service. As I noticed (so far), Yahoo trying to manage members of the group (collect personal data, tracking member's activity, etc). It offers little improvements for group management and improving group's functionality. - Can you divide topics in sections (folders)? No. - Can you start new thread (not a new post) and keep it separate from other messages? No. - Can you see all messages posted by certain member? No. For example, I would like to see all messages posted by Brent. This is just few examples. Take a look at the link below. This website is very well organized and easy to read for new members. You will not see all futures available to members, but you can subscribe for the threads you are interested in and follow all new post in such threads. You do not need to read ALL messages. http://www.advrider.com/forums/ Alex does very good job managing this group. More likely, Yahoo groups was best choice in year 2000. There are better options available FOR FREE now compare to Yahoo. It is up to Alex to decide if it would be better for the group to move to another host. There is no need to move old messages to new host. It will be smooth transition. It is need to listen new members feedback. IT IS HARD to read and search this group. Some subjects (as I was told) were discussed about 2 years ago. But I do not know it. I am not there yet. I need to keep up with reading old messages and keep track of new ones at the same time - instead of choosing the thread I am interested in and follow it. --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, James Pronk wrote: > > I do not think there is anything wrong with this group, Why do you want to change it. > How long have you been in this group, one or two months. > I like the yahoo groups > James >    | 21776|21776|2009-12-25 13:37:29|jpronk1|Merry Christmas all 2452|We as a group have 2452 members. I have seen it before where a group tries to move and loses most of the file, photos and half the members. I'm sure there is better servers out there but I do not think there is a better group of members! Merry Christmas all and thank you, James Pronk| 21777|21777|2009-12-25 19:32:17|SHANE ROTHWELL|On or off line post reading|Lads, I'd agree with James in that there is no need to change, for a couple of reasons 1. Not everyone is a computer wizard and I for one have no wish to waste time and fart around with yet another bloody system that everyone already knows already works fine. If it works, dont fix it 2. Keeping to the subject is all good and well, however, we have the human factor, in fact we have several hundred human factors, each with their own inoscyncrcies (sp) so it's never going to be simple all of the time. 3. Who was it who said 'communication is the most difficult of the human condition"? He was right 4. Newbie enthusiasim is all good and well but there is a hell of a volume of info in past postings, if you have a burnig desire to know "all" then start reading and organize the info in any way you like, that's your business, but we have a pretty good system that bloody WORKS. Don't mess with success. On that note, Merry Christmas to all! Shane I do not think there is anything wrong with this group, Why do you want to change it. How long have you been in this group, one or two months. I like the yahoo groups James __________________________________________________________________ Connect with friends from any web browser - no download required. Try the new Yahoo! Canada Messenger for the Web BETA at http://ca.messenger.yahoo.com/webmessengerpromo.php| 21778|21777|2009-12-25 20:09:46|gschnell@shaw.ca|Re: On or off line post reading|Hey Shane...I agree...leave it alone. You all have the capability to deal with the information....have a Merry Christmas. Gord Sent wirelessly from my BlackBerry device on the Bell network. Envoy� sans fil par mon terminal mobile BlackBerry sur le r�seau de Bell. -----Original Message----- From: SHANE ROTHWELL Date: Fri, 25 Dec 2009 16:32:16 To: Subject: [origamiboats] On or off line post reading Lads, I'd agree with James in that there is no need to change, for a couple of reasons 1. Not everyone is a computer wizard and I for one have no wish to waste time and fart around with yet another bloody system that everyone already knows already works fine. If it works, dont fix it 2. Keeping to the subject is all good and well, however, we have the human factor, in fact we have several hundred human factors, each with their own inoscyncrcies (sp) so it's never going to be simple all of the time. 3. Who was it who said 'communication is the most difficult of the human condition"? He was right 4. Newbie enthusiasim is all good and well but there is a hell of a volume of info in past postings, if you have a burnig desire to know "all" then start reading and organize the info in any way you like, that's your business, but we have a pretty good system that bloody WORKS. Don't mess with success. On that note, Merry Christmas to all! Shane I do not think there is anything wrong with this group, Why do you want to change it. How long have you been in this group, one or two months. I like the yahoo groups James __________________________________________________________________ Connect with friends from any web browser - no download required. Try the new Yahoo! Canada Messenger for the Web BETA at http://ca.messenger.yahoo.com/webmessengerpromo.php [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]| 21779|21779|2009-12-26 12:26:32|heretic_37ft|Heretic vs the Pope|Hi Brent et al: I decided to try something different. I am not copying Steve and Linda, but there is a need for a fishing boat in my area of Hawaii. Purchased a massively box framed, aluminum power boat, trailerable, with 300 hp. Test drove near Vancouver Is. and loved it! It is like driving a Cady. Will never replace my Heretic 37, but can go into areas to get fish and return in comfort. Then remove from the ocean at night. http://krahenbuhl.net/HC26PE/pics/091225-26PE-BF150.html (link has 50 pictures, so low bandwidth beware) Respectfully, Heretic_37ft| 21780|21730|2009-12-26 18:37:11|jamesmulliganuk|Re: Offline posts reading|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Ben Okopnik wrote: > > On Tue, Dec 22, 2009 at 01:30:26PM -0000, sae140 wrote: > > > > Would be extremely useful if there was an automatic way of compiling > > posts by the year, or even 3-monthly for when the airwaves become > > active. > > > > Any computer wizzo's out there who could write a suitable script ? > > Yahoo has a mechanism in place to stop that kind of post retrieval. Ever > notice how every 3rd or 5th one (or whatever) that you try to read via > the Web interface comes up with an ad? That's one of the reasons I wish > this forum was on Google Groups, or privately hosted. Not having access > to a full archive is a *big* loss of functionality, in my opinion. The last couple of "lumps" in the file section were extracted with a winbatch script and the later one had to deal with at least some of the random advert stuff. My friend who wrote it has since purged windows from his computers but I might suggest a linux version and see what he says.| 21781|21781|2009-12-27 05:21:06|southcoveemail|Interior volume for 26'|I would like to decide if the BS26' has enough room for my intended purpose. Can someone provide me with some sort of study plan. I could use a few offsets or a top view and a few cross sections. Thanks. Cheers, Thierry| 21782|21730|2009-12-27 13:49:54|Ben Okopnik|Re: Offline posts reading|On Fri, Dec 25, 2009 at 12:21:33PM -0000, sae140 wrote: > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Ben Okopnik wrote: > > > > On Tue, Dec 22, 2009 at 01:30:26PM -0000, sae140 wrote: > > > > > > Would be extremely useful if there was an automatic way of compiling > > > posts by the year, or even 3-monthly for when the airwaves become > > > active. > > > > > > Any computer wizzo's out there who could write a suitable script ? > > > > Yahoo has a mechanism in place to stop that kind of post retrieval. Ever > > notice how every 3rd or 5th one (or whatever) that you try to read via > > the Web interface comes up with an ad? That's one of the reasons I wish > > this forum was on Google Groups, or privately hosted. Not having access > > to a full archive is a *big* loss of functionality, in my opinion. > > > > Ads ? I've never seen what you describe. (Using Firefox with > Flashblock - dunno if that's relevant ?) Nope - since I'm using the same thing. These are actual web pages rather than popups. Please note that someone else here has mentioned the same thing, so they definitely do exist and are a problem. > I guess what I had in mind was working with one of those programs > which emulate mouse cursor location and clicks, as (of course) it's > possible to read earlier posts a few at a time, by manually clicking > on the 'older' messages button. "Screen scrapers" don't actually emulate mouse movements or clicks; they just send off the HTTP strings that would normally be generated by clicking a button or whatever. Unfortunately, writing something that would get around arbitrary ad pages would be quite the undertaking: although it's possible, it would take either a big, complex logic tree or artificial intelligence. In other words, a large and expensive project either way. :) > I found the REALLY tedious bit was copying the text and pasting into a > .txt file. If it wasn't for the ads, both retrieving and extracting the text would be trivial. In Linux, all it would take would be this shell script (assuming that the latest post here is #21780, which is pretty close to accurate): -------------------------------------------------------------------- for n in $(seq 21780) do wget http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/message/$n sed -n '/class="subject root grey"/,/<\/div>/p' $n |\ lynx -dump -nolist > $n.txt rm $n done -------------------------------------------------------------------- This would produce a list of about 22000 text files - the entire archive of this list - in plain text. Unfortunately, Yahoo won't allow that. You're welcome to try it, of course. If you're right, and Yahoo _isn't_ shoving those ads in, then you'll be the Origami Archive Master. :) > Editing the text is also tedious and has to be done by > hand - some of the posts use unclipped quoted material several levels > deep. I wouldn't bother, myself. People can read to whatever depth they'd like and ignore the rest. > IMHO - what's really needed is a file which contains what I would call > 'hard data' about Origami, so if anyone fancies taking on such a job, > many of Brent's posts would form a basic core around which to work. That would be a great idea; perhaps just extracting Brent's posts would be a good start. Again, pretty trivial given Linux. > Materials data, building tips, reasons why something is done a certain > way, and why not etc. One of the things that people used to do on Usenet was to nominate worthwhile posts "for the education of the young". :) Maybe it's worth restarting that tradition here? That does, of course, require that someone offer to be an archive keeper - with the job perhaps getting passed around as needed. -- OKOPNIK CONSULTING Custom Computing Solutions For Your Business Expert-led Training | Dynamic, vital websites | Custom programming 443-250-7895 http://okopnik.com| 21783|21730|2009-12-27 14:01:26|Ben Okopnik|Re: Offline posts reading|On Sun, Dec 27, 2009 at 01:49:38PM -0500, Benjamin Okopnik wrote: > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > for n in $(seq 21780) > do > wget http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/message/$n > sed -n '/class="subject root grey"/,/<\/div>/p' $n |\ > lynx -dump -nolist > $n.txt > rm $n > done > -------------------------------------------------------------------- Whoops - I just spotted an error. My bad. The 5th line should read lynx -dump -nolist -stdin > $n.txt instead. Of such minutiae are programs made. :) -- OKOPNIK CONSULTING Custom Computing Solutions For Your Business Expert-led Training | Dynamic, vital websites | Custom programming 443-250-7895 http://okopnik.com| 21784|21784|2009-12-27 21:58:08|wild_explorer|What information to put on Google Origamiboats Group?|Question to ALL members of THIS group: What information do you want to see on the "child" Google group? http://groups.google.com/group/origamiboats I can put some web-pages in "child" group. Everybody can read it, but posting is "by invitation only". So far I made only "Links" page. I am open to all reasonable ideas ;) I see "child" Origamiboats Google group as an EXTENSION of this group (not substitution) and promotion of Origami boat building technique in Google groups. You can share your ideas here or e-mail me.| 21785|21784|2009-12-28 10:50:23|James Pronk|Re: What information to put on Google Origamiboats Group?|Am I the only one who thinks this is a bad idea! I think only if it is done in duplicate of what is on this page.  I am not a computer guy and frankly I think the computer and the Internet is great but it can be a big waste of time. I would hate to half to go from one group to another to find info that I could could all be on one group. James --- On Sun, 12/27/09, wild_explorer wrote: From: wild_explorer Subject: [origamiboats] What information to put on Google Origamiboats Group? To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Received: Sunday, December 27, 2009, 9:58 PM   Question to ALL members of THIS group: What information do you want to see on the "child" Google group? http://groups. google.com/ group/origamiboa ts I can put some web-pages in "child" group. Everybody can read it, but posting is "by invitation only". So far I made only "Links" page. I am open to all reasonable ideas ;) I see "child" Origamiboats Google group as an EXTENSION of this group (not substitution) and promotion of Origami boat building technique in Google groups. You can share your ideas here or e-mail me. __________________________________________________________________ Get the name you've always wanted @... or @...! Go to http://ca.promos.yahoo.com/jacko/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 21786|21784|2009-12-28 11:50:34|David Frantz|Re: What information to put on Google Origamiboats Group?|I tend to agree. Frankly I've learned a lot from this group, but my time is limited in more ways than one. I'm not sure I could sucessfully split my time between the two groups without missing good stuff from time to time. In anyevent Yahoo groups have worked out really well for me. I'm a member to a couple of wildly different groups and none of them have raised issues with respect to how Yahoo runs the service. So what is the problem? As to Origami Boat Building; a full blown web site would be nice. Especially for info and advice that is more or less static. The problem is who has the time and surplus funds to run such a site. The sad reality is that when you step away from services like Yahoo Groups there is a dramatic up turn in the effort required to provide even a simple alternative. So the question is where is the beef? That is what extra is offered up by Google to make the change worthwhile. David A Frantz websterindustro@... Sent from my iPhone. On Dec 28, 2009, at 10:50 AM, James Pronk wrote: > Am I the only one who thinks this is a bad idea! > I think only if it is done in duplicate of what is on this page. > I am not a computer guy and frankly I think the computer and the > Internet is great but it can be a big waste of time. > I would hate to half to go from one group to another to find info > that I could could all be on one group. > James > > --- On Sun, 12/27/09, wild_explorer wrote: > > > From: wild_explorer > Subject: [origamiboats] What information to put on Google > Origamiboats Group? > To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > Received: Sunday, December 27, 2009, 9:58 PM > > > > > > > Question to ALL members of THIS group: > > What information do you want to see on the "child" Google group? > > http://groups. google.com/ group/origamiboa ts > > I can put some web-pages in "child" group. Everybody can read it, > but posting is "by invitation only". > > So far I made only "Links" page. > > I am open to all reasonable ideas ;) > > I see "child" Origamiboats Google group as an EXTENSION of this > group (not substitution) and promotion of Origami boat building > technique in Google groups. > > You can share your ideas here or e-mail me. > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________________________ > Get the name you've always wanted @... or @...! Go > to http://ca.promos.yahoo.com/jacko/ > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.comYahoo > ! Groups Links > > > | 21787|21784|2009-12-28 13:31:00|wild_explorer|Re: What information to put on Google Origamiboats Group?|Folks, you are missing the point! THERE is NO REASON to move the group anywhere AT THIS TIME! Especially, for old members who remember everything what did happened in this group since year 2000. Yes, it would be nice to have a web-site with full functionality. But... It takes a lot of time and some money for hosting. I see Google group ONLY as a extra PROMOTION for Yahoo Origamiboats group. That why I put The link on first page. I just do not have time to manage it on regular basis ;)). So, everybody can read info, but not to post. At this time, I want to put some kind of FAQ, Yahoo Origamiboats message archive (what is available) and KEY INFORMATION about Origamiboats. Please, help me here ;) I am looking what the difference is between Yahoo and Google groups at this time. At least, we can have extra space for files, pictures and can make web pages. I DO NOT WANT members of this group move to another group. Splitting is not good and does not make any sense. If somebody interested in 3D modeling of Origamiboats - you are Welcome. If something interesting happens - I will put a link in this group. So, KEEP FOCUS on Yahoo Origamiboats group! ;) --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, David Frantz wrote: > > As to Origami Boat Building; a full blown web site would be nice. > Especially for info and advice that is more or less static. The > problem is who has the time and surplus funds to run such a site. > The sad reality is that when you step away from services like Yahoo > Groups there is a dramatic up turn in the effort required to provide > even a simple alternative. > > So the question is where is the beef? That is what extra is offered > up by Google to make the change worthwhile. > > David A Frantz > > websterindustro@... | 21788|21730|2009-12-28 13:43:25|wild_explorer|Re: Offline posts reading|What format is used in ZIPped message's archive (2003, 2004) in file section. I could not extract it - says Unknown method :(| 21789|21784|2009-12-28 15:25:30|Gord Schnell|Re: What information to put on Google Origamiboats Group?|David This how Origamiboats is "served". If it doesn't suit you, you have to choices: assume the role of managing the site and build a new one OR "move on". Gord On 28-Dec-09, at 8:47 AM, David Frantz wrote: > I tend to agree. Frankly I've learned a lot from this group, but my > time is limited in more ways than one. I'm not sure I could > sucessfully split my time between the two groups without missing good > stuff from time to time. > > In anyevent Yahoo groups have worked out really well for me. I'm a > member to a couple of wildly different groups and none of them have > raised issues with respect to how Yahoo runs the service. So what is > the problem? > > As to Origami Boat Building; a full blown web site would be nice. > Especially for info and advice that is more or less static. The > problem is who has the time and surplus funds to run such a site. > The sad reality is that when you step away from services like Yahoo > Groups there is a dramatic up turn in the effort required to provide > even a simple alternative. > > So the question is where is the beef? That is what extra is offered > up by Google to make the change worthwhile. > > David A Frantz > > websterindustro@... > Sent from my iPhone. > > On Dec 28, 2009, at 10:50 AM, James Pronk wrote: > > > Am I the only one who thinks this is a bad idea! > > I think only if it is done in duplicate of what is on this page. > > I am not a computer guy and frankly I think the computer and the > > Internet is great but it can be a big waste of time. > > I would hate to half to go from one group to another to find info > > that I could could all be on one group. > > James > > > > --- On Sun, 12/27/09, wild_explorer wrote: > > > > > > From: wild_explorer > > Subject: [origamiboats] What information to put on Google > > Origamiboats Group? > > To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > Received: Sunday, December 27, 2009, 9:58 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Question to ALL members of THIS group: > > > > What information do you want to see on the "child" Google group? > > > > http://groups. google.com/ group/origamiboa ts > > > > I can put some web-pages in "child" group. Everybody can read it, > > but posting is "by invitation only". > > > > So far I made only "Links" page. > > > > I am open to all reasonable ideas ;) > > > > I see "child" Origamiboats Google group as an EXTENSION of this > > group (not substitution) and promotion of Origami boat building > > technique in Google groups. > > > > You can share your ideas here or e-mail me. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________________ > > Get the name you've always wanted @... or @...! Go > > to http://ca.promos.yahoo.com/jacko/ > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.comYahoo > > ! Groups Links > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 21790|21784|2009-12-28 15:45:48|David Frantz|Re: What information to put on Google Origamiboats Group?|I think everybody missed my whole point Origami Biats is fine just the way it is. We don't need another group on Google. The fact is, which I thought was pretty clear, is that the group has served me very well in that I've learned a lot from the group. I'm not sure why this has been so difficult. As to a web site, what I tried to point out is that it could add to the available knowledge base. The problem is that is niether cheap nor easy. David A Frantz websterindustro@... Sent from my iPhone. On Dec 28, 2009, at 3:25 PM, Gord Schnell wrote: > David > This how Origamiboats is "served". If it doesn't suit you, you have > to choices: assume the role of managing the site and build a new one > OR "move on". > Gord > > On 28-Dec-09, at 8:47 AM, David Frantz wrote: > >> I tend to agree. Frankly I've learned a lot from this group, but my >> time is limited in more ways than one. I'm not sure I could >> sucessfully split my time between the two groups without missing good >> stuff from time to time. >> >> In anyevent Yahoo groups have worked out really well for me. I'm a >> member to a couple of wildly different groups and none of them have >> raised issues with respect to how Yahoo runs the service. So what is >> the problem? >> >> As to Origami Boat Building; a full blown web site would be nice. >> Especially for info and advice that is more or less static. The >> problem is who has the time and surplus funds to run such a site. >> The sad reality is that when you step away from services like Yahoo >> Groups there is a dramatic up turn in the effort required to provide >> even a simple alternative. >> >> So the question is where is the beef? That is what extra is offered >> up by Google to make the change worthwhile. >> >> David A Frantz >> >> websterindustro@... >> Sent from my iPhone. >> >> On Dec 28, 2009, at 10:50 AM, James Pronk wrote: >> >>> Am I the only one who thinks this is a bad idea! >>> I think only if it is done in duplicate of what is on this page. >>> I am not a computer guy and frankly I think the computer and the >>> Internet is great but it can be a big waste of time. >>> I would hate to half to go from one group to another to find info >>> that I could could all be on one group. >>> James >>> >>> --- On Sun, 12/27/09, wild_explorer wrote: >>> >>> >>> From: wild_explorer >>> Subject: [origamiboats] What information to put on Google >>> Origamiboats Group? >>> To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com >>> Received: Sunday, December 27, 2009, 9:58 PM >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Question to ALL members of THIS group: >>> >>> What information do you want to see on the "child" Google group? >>> >>> http://groups. google.com/ group/origamiboa ts >>> >>> I can put some web-pages in "child" group. Everybody can read it, >>> but posting is "by invitation only". >>> >>> So far I made only "Links" page. >>> >>> I am open to all reasonable ideas ;) >>> >>> I see "child" Origamiboats Google group as an EXTENSION of this >>> group (not substitution) and promotion of Origami boat building >>> technique in Google groups. >>> >>> You can share your ideas here or e-mail me. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> __________________________________________________________ >>> Get the name you've always wanted @... or @...! Go >>> to http://ca.promos.yahoo.com/jacko/ >>> >>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >>> >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------------ >>> >>> To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com >>> To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.comYahoo >>> ! Groups Links >>> >>> >>> >> >> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.comYahoo > ! Groups Links > > > | 21791|21791|2009-12-28 15:47:05|brentswain38|Wind generator|Karl, my neighbour, just put me onto a great book called "Homebrew Windpower " by Dan Bartman& Dan Fink, isbn 978-0-9819201-0-8 It tells you step by step how to build a very simple, powerful wind generator, building all the parts by yourself. I'll start putting together the parts , asap. Brent| 21792|21784|2009-12-28 15:53:17|brentswain38|Re: What information to put on Google Origamiboats Group?|I just clicked on message #3, no problem. So whats the problem? If it ain't broke, don't fix it.( as opposed to government policy . If it ain't broke , fix it until it is broke.) --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, David Frantz wrote: > > I think everybody missed my whole point Origami Biats is fine just the > way it is. We don't need another group on Google. The fact is, > which I thought was pretty clear, is that the group has served me very > well in that I've learned a lot from the group. I'm not sure why this > has been so difficult. > > As to a web site, what I tried to point out is that it could add to > the available knowledge base. The problem is that is niether cheap > nor easy. > > > David A Frantz > > websterindustro@... > Sent from my iPhone. > > On Dec 28, 2009, at 3:25 PM, Gord Schnell wrote: > > > David > > This how Origamiboats is "served". If it doesn't suit you, you have > > to choices: assume the role of managing the site and build a new one > > OR "move on". > > Gord > > > > On 28-Dec-09, at 8:47 AM, David Frantz wrote: > > > >> I tend to agree. Frankly I've learned a lot from this group, but my > >> time is limited in more ways than one. I'm not sure I could > >> sucessfully split my time between the two groups without missing good > >> stuff from time to time. > >> > >> In anyevent Yahoo groups have worked out really well for me. I'm a > >> member to a couple of wildly different groups and none of them have > >> raised issues with respect to how Yahoo runs the service. So what is > >> the problem? > >> > >> As to Origami Boat Building; a full blown web site would be nice. > >> Especially for info and advice that is more or less static. The > >> problem is who has the time and surplus funds to run such a site. > >> The sad reality is that when you step away from services like Yahoo > >> Groups there is a dramatic up turn in the effort required to provide > >> even a simple alternative. > >> > >> So the question is where is the beef? That is what extra is offered > >> up by Google to make the change worthwhile. > >> > >> David A Frantz > >> > >> websterindustro@... > >> Sent from my iPhone. > >> > >> On Dec 28, 2009, at 10:50 AM, James Pronk wrote: > >> > >>> Am I the only one who thinks this is a bad idea! > >>> I think only if it is done in duplicate of what is on this page. > >>> I am not a computer guy and frankly I think the computer and the > >>> Internet is great but it can be a big waste of time. > >>> I would hate to half to go from one group to another to find info > >>> that I could could all be on one group. > >>> James > >>> > >>> --- On Sun, 12/27/09, wild_explorer wrote: > >>> > >>> > >>> From: wild_explorer > >>> Subject: [origamiboats] What information to put on Google > >>> Origamiboats Group? > >>> To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > >>> Received: Sunday, December 27, 2009, 9:58 PM > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> Question to ALL members of THIS group: > >>> > >>> What information do you want to see on the "child" Google group? > >>> > >>> http://groups. google.com/ group/origamiboa ts > >>> > >>> I can put some web-pages in "child" group. Everybody can read it, > >>> but posting is "by invitation only". > >>> > >>> So far I made only "Links" page. > >>> > >>> I am open to all reasonable ideas ;) > >>> > >>> I see "child" Origamiboats Google group as an EXTENSION of this > >>> group (not substitution) and promotion of Origami boat building > >>> technique in Google groups. > >>> > >>> You can share your ideas here or e-mail me. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> __________________________________________________________ > >>> Get the name you've always wanted @... or @...! Go > >>> to http://ca.promos.yahoo.com/jacko/ > >>> > >>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> ------------------------------------ > >>> > >>> To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > >>> To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@... > >>> ! Groups Links > >>> > >>> > >>> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@... > > ! Groups Links > > > > > > > | 21793|21784|2009-12-28 18:16:36|ric|Re: What information to put on Google Origamiboats Group?|Sorry guys it's taken a while for this thread to come through to me on my dial up system using windows 95. It's a bit slow but as consensus has it; it ain't broke so why should I change it. Further to that; why would you possibly want to build an Origami boat when the traditional manner of jigs, frames, stingers with multichines and lots of welding works? There are lots of perfectly good examples of these boats out there sailing which ain't broke so why change it. Seems the only reason people are complaining is that their comfort zone has been ruffled. I had a good look at the Advrider site and I enjoyed it. Thought about getting a bike and doing a bit of a tour; but then reconsidered. I haven't ridden a bike before; so why change that. I enjoyed the pictures that related directly to the text. What a joy that would be on the Origami site. Pictures that had annotations and explanations. Whow ! So give this guy a break. If he wants to set up a site that mirrors this one let him do it. If later people want to start taking advantage of the benefits of that format, let them. So hang in there "WILD_EXPLORER" and I don't care how short a time you have been a member of this group; Welcome ! Ric Hutchings --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "brentswain38" wrote: If it ain't broke, don't fix it. | 21794|21784|2009-12-28 19:28:10|brentswain38|Re: What information to put on Google Origamiboats Group?|Could you put together a 36 foot hull in two days, using your outdated imitation wooden boat building "Dinosaur" methods , a boat as fair as any fibreglass boat, needing absolutely no filler? I can. Why would you drive a car, when the red river cart did the job perfectly well for so many years? Traditional metal boat building takes so many wasted man hours that it is definitely broke, and has long needed fixing.It has already cost far to many people their cruising dreams. --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "ric" wrote: > > > Sorry guys it's taken a while for this thread to come through to me on my dial up system using windows 95. It's a bit slow but as consensus has it; it ain't broke so why should I change it. > Further to that; why would you possibly want to build an Origami boat when the traditional manner of jigs, frames, stingers with multichines and lots of welding works? There are lots of perfectly good examples of these boats out there sailing which ain't broke so why change it. > > Seems the only reason people are complaining is that their comfort zone has been ruffled. > > I had a good look at the Advrider site and I enjoyed it. Thought about getting a bike and doing a bit of a tour; but then reconsidered. I haven't ridden a bike before; so why change that. > > I enjoyed the pictures that related directly to the text. What a joy that would be on the Origami site. Pictures that had annotations and explanations. Whow ! > > So give this guy a break. If he wants to set up a site that mirrors this one let him do it. If later people want to start taking advantage of the benefits of that format, let them. > > So hang in there "WILD_EXPLORER" and I don't care how short a time you have been a member of this group; Welcome ! > Ric Hutchings > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "brentswain38" wrote: > > > If it ain't broke, don't fix it. > | 21795|21784|2009-12-28 19:47:52|wild_explorer|Re: What information to put on Google Origamiboats Group?|Brent, with all my respect... You are off the subject. Google ALLOWS (has option) to mirror mailing list from another website. Yahoo just does not allow to do it. The question is WHY? Are they afraid that some Yahoo groups will move to another server? At this case it is need to improve service, not to put a bunch of restrictions. If I will be able to MIRROR this group - I would be happy with the results. If I can do some improvements beside mirroring - even better. I agree, if it is not broken - do not fix it. But why not to improve it? I am wasting MY time - not yours. I will appreciate ALL advises (for/against new "child" group). I do NOT have an agenda to brake or split this wonderful group, just give it more flexibility. --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "brentswain38" wrote: > > Could you put together a 36 foot hull in two days, using your outdated imitation wooden boat building "Dinosaur" methods , a boat as fair as any fibreglass boat, needing absolutely no filler? I can. > Why would you drive a car, when the red river cart did the job perfectly well for so many years? > Traditional metal boat building takes so many wasted man hours that it is definitely broke, and has long needed fixing.It has already cost far to many people their cruising dreams. | 21796|21784|2009-12-28 20:15:21|Aaron Williams|Web site building Yahoo vs Google is a different forum|If Brent and Alex the owners of this group want to move to Google then we will follow but if they want to stay here I for one will stay here. I found this group it at the time it was exactly what I needed. If Wild Eplor. (real nameincerted here)wants to build a site then no one is going to stop him but considering he has no building experience listed as of yet what would the site have to offer? I am interested in boat building ideas not web building. But everyone has to start somewhere. Aaron --- On Mon, 12/28/09, brentswain38 wrote: From: brentswain38 Subject: [origamiboats] Re: What information to put on Google Origamiboats Group? To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, December 28, 2009, 3:26 PM   Could you put together a 36 foot hull in two days, using your outdated imitation wooden boat building "Dinosaur" methods , a boat as fair as any fibreglass boat, needing absolutely no filler? I can. Why would you drive a car, when the red river cart did the job perfectly well for so many years? Traditional metal boat building takes so many wasted man hours that it is definitely broke, and has long needed fixing.It has already cost far to many people their cruising dreams. --- In origamiboats@ yahoogroups. com, "ric" wrote: > > > Sorry guys it's taken a while for this thread to come through to me on my dial up system using windows 95. It's a bit slow but as consensus has it; it ain't broke so why should I change it. > Further to that; why would you possibly want to build an Origami boat when the traditional manner of jigs, frames, stingers with multichines and lots of welding works? There are lots of perfectly good examples of these boats out there sailing which ain't broke so why change it. > > Seems the only reason people are complaining is that their comfort zone has been ruffled. > > I had a good look at the Advrider site and I enjoyed it. Thought about getting a bike and doing a bit of a tour; but then reconsidered. I haven't ridden a bike before; so why change that. > > I enjoyed the pictures that related directly to the text. What a joy that would be on the Origami site. Pictures that had annotations and explanations. Whow ! > > So give this guy a break. If he wants to set up a site that mirrors this one let him do it. If later people want to start taking advantage of the benefits of that format, let them. > > So hang in there "WILD_EXPLORER" and I don't care how short a time you have been a member of this group; Welcome ! > Ric Hutchings > > --- In origamiboats@ yahoogroups. com, "brentswain38" wrote: > > > If it ain't broke, don't fix it. > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 21797|21784|2009-12-28 20:57:19|David Frantz|Re: What information to put on Google Origamiboats Group?|That is exactly what I'm talking about. There is little advantage to having a group set up on google. It does nothing positive for us. I'm not sure how this discussion even got started, but I don't want to see half the discussions that take place here disappear. This would likely happen if another group was formed on another service. In any event it oaths holidays and I'm not going to worry about it anymore. David A Frantz websterindustro@... Sent from my iPhone. On Dec 28, 2009, at 3:49 PM, brentswain38 wrote: > I just clicked on message #3, no problem. So whats the problem? If > it ain't broke, don't fix it.( as opposed to government policy . If > it ain't broke , fix it until it is broke.) > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, David Frantz > wrote: >> >> I think everybody missed my whole point Origami Biats is fine just >> the >> way it is. We don't need another group on Google. The fact is, >> which I thought was pretty clear, is that the group has served me >> very >> well in that I've learned a lot from the group. I'm not sure why >> this >> has been so difficult. >> >> As to a web site, what I tried to point out is that it could add to >> the available knowledge base. The problem is that is niether cheap >> nor easy. >> >> >> David A Frantz >> >> websterindustro@... >> Sent from my iPhone. >> >> On Dec 28, 2009, at 3:25 PM, Gord Schnell wrote: >> >>> David >>> This how Origamiboats is "served". If it doesn't suit you, you have >>> to choices: assume the role of managing the site and build a new one >>> OR "move on". >>> Gord >>> >>> On 28-Dec-09, at 8:47 AM, David Frantz wrote: >>> >>>> I tend to agree. Frankly I've learned a lot from this group, but my >>>> time is limited in more ways than one. I'm not sure I could >>>> sucessfully split my time between the two groups without missing >>>> good >>>> stuff from time to time. >>>> >>>> In anyevent Yahoo groups have worked out really well for me. I'm a >>>> member to a couple of wildly different groups and none of them have >>>> raised issues with respect to how Yahoo runs the service. So what >>>> is >>>> the problem? >>>> >>>> As to Origami Boat Building; a full blown web site would be nice. >>>> Especially for info and advice that is more or less static. The >>>> problem is who has the time and surplus funds to run such a site. >>>> The sad reality is that when you step away from services like Yahoo >>>> Groups there is a dramatic up turn in the effort required to >>>> provide >>>> even a simple alternative. >>>> >>>> So the question is where is the beef? That is what extra is offered >>>> up by Google to make the change worthwhile. >>>> >>>> David A Frantz >>>> >>>> websterindustro@... >>>> Sent from my iPhone. >>>> >>>> On Dec 28, 2009, at 10:50 AM, James Pronk wrote: >>>> >>>>> Am I the only one who thinks this is a bad idea! >>>>> I think only if it is done in duplicate of what is on this page. >>>>> I am not a computer guy and frankly I think the computer and the >>>>> Internet is great but it can be a big waste of time. >>>>> I would hate to half to go from one group to another to find info >>>>> that I could could all be on one group. >>>>> James >>>>> >>>>> --- On Sun, 12/27/09, wild_explorer wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> From: wild_explorer >>>>> Subject: [origamiboats] What information to put on Google >>>>> Origamiboats Group? >>>>> To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com >>>>> Received: Sunday, December 27, 2009, 9:58 PM >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Question to ALL members of THIS group: >>>>> >>>>> What information do you want to see on the "child" Google group? >>>>> >>>>> http://groups. google.com/ group/origamiboa ts >>>>> >>>>> I can put some web-pages in "child" group. Everybody can read it, >>>>> but posting is "by invitation only". >>>>> >>>>> So far I made only "Links" page. >>>>> >>>>> I am open to all reasonable ideas ;) >>>>> >>>>> I see "child" Origamiboats Google group as an EXTENSION of this >>>>> group (not substitution) and promotion of Origami boat building >>>>> technique in Google groups. >>>>> >>>>> You can share your ideas here or e-mail me. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> __________________________________________________________ >>>>> Get the name you've always wanted @... or @...! >>>>> Go >>>>> to http://ca.promos.yahoo.com/jacko/ >>>>> >>>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ------------------------------------ >>>>> >>>>> To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com >>>>> To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats- >>>>> unsubscribe@... >>>>> ! Groups Links >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >>> >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------------ >>> >>> To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com >>> To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats- >>> unsubscribe@... >>> ! Groups Links >>> >>> >>> >> > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.comYahoo > ! Groups Links > > > | 21798|21784|2009-12-28 21:45:39|ric|Re: What information to put on Google Origamiboats Group?|Exactly Brent; you nailed it. And that is exactly what I am saying. There are better ways of doing everything and Yahoo groups is not one of them. End of story for me Ric --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "brentswain38" wrote: > > Could you put together a 36 foot hull in two days, using your outdated imitation wooden boat building "Dinosaur" methods , > | 21799|21784|2009-12-28 22:30:33|wild_explorer|Re: What information to put on Google Origamiboats Group?|Thanks to ALL for Pro&Cons. Please, contact me DIRECTLY. This discussion is OFF-TOPIC FOR THIS GROUP. Please, note - I am NOT inviting any members at this time. I want just to mirror Yahoo group. I will put only not-sensitive, not-copyright protected information in Google group for public's view. If somebody interested in giving input for 3-D "Origami" boat modeling, e-mail me for further discussion. Alex, if you decide to be a manager of "mirrored" group, I will gladly give you manager's permitions. I assume, you did not respond on my e-mail just because of holidays season.| 21800|21781|2009-12-28 22:44:14|aaron riis|Re: Interior volume for 26'|My boat has eighteen inch side decks, beam about eight foot four at the widest.  The cabin is about five feet wide.  The hull itself draws about 2 feet at the deepsest not counting the keel.  I wont be able to put counter space under the decks. like the bigger boats do.. The trailerability can be a huge advantage.  Brent compared the volume about equal to an alberg 30.   Aaron --- On Sun, 12/27/09, southcoveemail wrote: From: southcoveemail Subject: [origamiboats] Interior volume for 26' To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Received: Sunday, December 27, 2009, 2:20 AM   I would like to decide if the BS26' has enough room for my intended purpose.. Can someone provide me with some sort of study plan. I could use a few offsets or a top view and a few cross sections. Thanks. Cheers, Thierry __________________________________________________________________ Looking for the perfect gift? Give the gift of Flickr! http://www.flickr.com/gift/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 21801|21784|2009-12-28 22:53:38|James Pronk|Re: What information to put on Google Origamiboats Group?|So Ric  are you saying that you want to build another goup, move all the members, photos, files and postings from this group over to a google group?  You can do it without losing any info and you can do it in your spare time? James --- On Mon, 12/28/09, ric wrote: From: ric Subject: [origamiboats] Re: What information to put on Google Origamiboats Group? To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Received: Monday, December 28, 2009, 9:44 PM   Exactly Brent; you nailed it. And that is exactly what I am saying. There are better ways of doing everything and Yahoo groups is not one of them. End of story for me Ric --- In origamiboats@ yahoogroups. com, "brentswain38" wrote: > > Could you put together a 36 foot hull in two days, using your outdated imitation wooden boat building "Dinosaur" methods , > __________________________________________________________________ Ask a question on any topic and get answers from real people. Go to Yahoo! Answers and share what you know at http://ca.answers.yahoo.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 21802|21784|2009-12-28 23:03:06|Ben Okopnik|Re: What information to put on Google Origamiboats Group?|On Mon, Dec 28, 2009 at 11:16:29PM -0000, ric wrote: > > Seems the only reason people are complaining is that their comfort zone has been ruffled. Ric, I do believe you've nailed it. That, as well as a complete misunderstanding of what WildExplorer is offering - which isn't even *about* ruffling anyone's comfort zone. Nobody is being asked to change anything. Nobody is being told they have to do things differently. Nobody is being forced to learn how to do new things with these Scary Computer Thingamabobs. All WildExplorer is offering - offering, not forcing down anyone's throat - is an *additional* resource about Origami boats. He has also suggested - not passed a law requiring everyone to obey on pain of death, but suggested - that this list be moved to a service with fewer restrictions and better features. For myself - and I've been working with, administering, setting up, and dealing with email and USENET lists for many, many years - a move to Google would not be a bad thing; I really dislike Yahoo's policies on archive retrieval, particularly the ones they don't tell you about. E.g., when I tested the script that I posted here the other day, Yahoo let me pull down 256 posts - and then chopped it off. I shifted to another server, and pulled down more posts - yep, limited out at 256 again. In other words, if you want a backup of all the posts in this group - tough luck, Charlie! You can't, at least not without more resources than the Average Joe has access to (I can do it, but even so, it would take a good bit of effort.) You are dependent on Yahoo not deciding that someone here has done something against their policies and shutting this group down - and destroying every word ever sent here. Don't think it's a credible scenario? Do a simple search about this issue, then think again. Imagine everything that all of you, including Brent, ever wrote here - GONE. Pictures, gone. Information, gone. Brent's answers, explanations, ideas posted on this list - gone. And now, you might have an idea of why I suggested moving to a private list way back when (not a money issue, that; I could host it on one of my servers, free, and I have a number of friends who would do the same), and why WildExplorer is suggesting it now. It's a safety measure; it's protection for that valuable resource that's been built here by all our efforts. I believe that it _is_ something valuable and worth preserving - and that means worth paying a price for (i.e., learning to use Google's interface, or that of a different list software, instead of sticking with Yahoo.) That's not what I'd call a huge burden - and it would have this large and valuable benefit, in addition to any other benefits from using a more open, less restrictive environment. But, again, no one is forcing anyone to do anything - so all the outraged responses are way, way out of place. -- OKOPNIK CONSULTING Custom Computing Solutions For Your Business Expert-led Training | Dynamic, vital websites | Custom programming 443-250-7895 http://okopnik.com| 21803|21784|2009-12-28 23:09:21|Ben Okopnik|Re: What information to put on Google Origamiboats Group?|On Mon, Dec 28, 2009 at 07:53:37PM -0800, James Pronk wrote: > So Ric >  are you saying that you want to build another goup, move all the > members, photos, files and postings from this group over to a google > group?  You can do it without losing any info and you can do it in > your spare time? Rather than "move", I think it's more like "copy". I haven't looked at it myself, but I do believe that this is what Google is offering. Seems like a huge gain for minimal effort, to me. I also find Google's group interface to be less clunky than Yahoo's, but that's a personal perception. -- OKOPNIK CONSULTING Custom Computing Solutions For Your Business Expert-led Training | Dynamic, vital websites | Custom programming 443-250-7895 http://okopnik.com| 21804|21784|2009-12-28 23:11:20|wild_explorer|Re: What information to put on Google Origamiboats Group?|James, The Google Origamiboats group is already there. I am trying to mirror NEW messages, but I do not know if Yahoo will allow to do it. It is possible to move files and pictures (handy for backup). It might take long time, but doable. Another concern - what files from Yahoo to put on Google group. I do not want to abuse my member's status. I need permission from owner/moderator of Yahoo group. There IS NO reason to move members at this time (if at all). --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, James Pronk wrote: > > So Ric >  are you saying that you want to build another goup, move all the members, photos, files and postings from this group over to a google group?  You can do it without losing any info and you can do it in your spare time? > James | 21805|21784|2009-12-29 01:09:28|Aaron Williams|Re: What information to put on Google Origamiboats Group?|Who is Wild explorer does anyone know anything about him? Jim Would you to tell us a little bit more about yourself? Aaron --- On Mon, 12/28/09, Ben Okopnik wrote: From: Ben Okopnik Subject: Re: [origamiboats] Re: What information to put on Google Origamiboats Group? To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, December 28, 2009, 7:02 PM   On Mon, Dec 28, 2009 at 11:16:29PM -0000, ric wrote: > > Seems the only reason people are complaining is that their comfort zone has been ruffled. Ric, I do believe you've nailed it. That, as well as a complete misunderstanding of what WildExplorer is offering - which isn't even *about* ruffling anyone's comfort zone. Nobody is being asked to change anything. Nobody is being told they have to do things differently. Nobody is being forced to learn how to do new things with these Scary Computer Thingamabobs. All WildExplorer is offering - offering, not forcing down anyone's throat - is an *additional* resource about Origami boats. He has also suggested - not passed a law requiring everyone to obey on pain of death, but suggested - that this list be moved to a service with fewer restrictions and better features. For myself - and I've been working with, administering, setting up, and dealing with email and USENET lists for many, many years - a move to Google would not be a bad thing; I really dislike Yahoo's policies on archive retrieval, particularly the ones they don't tell you about. E.g., when I tested the script that I posted here the other day, Yahoo let me pull down 256 posts - and then chopped it off. I shifted to another server, and pulled down more posts - yep, limited out at 256 again. In other words, if you want a backup of all the posts in this group - tough luck, Charlie! You can't, at least not without more resources than the Average Joe has access to (I can do it, but even so, it would take a good bit of effort.) You are dependent on Yahoo not deciding that someone here has done something against their policies and shutting this group down - and destroying every word ever sent here. Don't think it's a credible scenario? Do a simple search about this issue, then think again. Imagine everything that all of you, including Brent, ever wrote here - GONE. Pictures, gone. Information, gone. Brent's answers, explanations, ideas posted on this list - gone. And now, you might have an idea of why I suggested moving to a private list way back when (not a money issue, that; I could host it on one of my servers, free, and I have a number of friends who would do the same), and why WildExplorer is suggesting it now. It's a safety measure; it's protection for that valuable resource that's been built here by all our efforts. I believe that it _is_ something valuable and worth preserving - and that means worth paying a price for (i.e., learning to use Google's interface, or that of a different list software, instead of sticking with Yahoo.) That's not what I'd call a huge burden - and it would have this large and valuable benefit, in addition to any other benefits from using a more open, less restrictive environment. But, again, no one is forcing anyone to do anything - so all the outraged responses are way, way out of place. -- OKOPNIK CONSULTING Custom Computing Solutions For Your Business Expert-led Training | Dynamic, vital websites | Custom programming 443-250-7895 http://okopnik. com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 21806|21784|2009-12-29 01:54:54|wild_explorer|Re: What information to put on Google Origamiboats Group?|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Aaron Williams wrote: > > Who is Wild explorer does anyone know anything about him? > Jim Would you to tell us a little bit more about yourself? > Aaron OK. This is a reasonable request. Nobody knows me in person. I did not have the pleasure to meet any of trusted/long_time members of this group yet. First of all - I DO NOT HAVE ANY COMMERCIAL OR OTHERS HARMFUL to this group INTERESTS. As I mentioned before, I can give manager's permissions for Google Origamiboats Group to Alex or other trusted member of this group. I prefer to keep Google Origamiboats Group under strict management (it is mirror group anyway) for Internet security reasons. My past (use to be) background: - Some marine and marine engines experience (not much, but enough to want to build a boat). - Electronic, computers. - Paranoid about Internet security (not safest place in modern world). Still is ;) So far, Brent's design looks very appealing to me, compare to old fashion method. After considering to make 1:10 model, I decided to switch to 3D before making model. Doing model in 3D (in good free 3D software) is almost the same as building a boat (you can make parts/assemblies, cut metal sheets, weld, etc). After making 3D model you are experienced metal work technologist and boatbuilder ;))| 21807|21722|2009-12-29 08:38:08|GP|Re: Storm anchoring or avoidance discussion|Hi Steve... thanks for that...helluva read. Appears the snubbers broke not his rode; not a failure of the anchor. Would our bow rollers have done better? (if the problem was at the bow rollers?)... Gary --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "steve" wrote: > > Here is a link to a good discussion on storm anchoring on the Sailing Anarchy forum. Only a bit of flaming. > > http://forums.sailinganarchy.com/index.php?showtopic=100772&st=0&start=0 > | 21808|21784|2009-12-29 09:25:07|James Pronk|Re: What information to put on Google Origamiboats Group?|--- On Tue, 12/29/09, Aaron Williams wrote: That is a reasonable question Aaron. I am a tool and die maker by trade. I was doing a lot of prototype work for the auto industry. I needed a break and decided to blacksmithing till I ran out of money. That was 10 years ago, you can see some of my work on google images. As for sailing, I've been sailing on and off for about 24 years. I have owned 6 boats, my first being a Flipper Scow that I picked-up at a yard sale for $10 to the boat that I have now, a Catalina 27 that was being used as a garbage dumpster. I've been sailing it for two years now. I sailed an O'Day 22 on every lake on the Trent Severn water way. After work I would drive to the boat sail or motor as far as I could, (to the first closed lock) stay the night, bike to my car and drive to work. I am working on a Brent Swain 36 right now, I will post the work that I have done so far.  I am also a part time welding instructor at a local college. James Pronk P.S. I will need to try to build a boat using 3D software. " After making 3D model you are experienced metal work technologist and boat builder " Wow 25 years and all that work and all I had to do was build a boat on a computer to become a Metal working techonlogist and a boat builder!   From: Aaron Williams Subject: Re: [origamiboats] Re: What information to put on Google Origamiboats Group? To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Received: Tuesday, December 29, 2009, 1:09 AM   Who is Wild explorer does anyone know anything about him? Jim Would you to tell us a little bit more about yourself? Aaron __________________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Canada Toolbar: Search from anywhere on the web, and bookmark your favourite sites. Download it now http://ca.toolbar.yahoo.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 21809|21784|2009-12-29 09:51:06|scott|Re: What information to put on Google Origamiboats Group?|Just a bit of perspective. Yahoo has closed down a bunch of services over the last few years that they offered at one time. The fact that they are not improving the yahoo groups interface and features is scary. They did a major overhaul of the email last year. They are continually working on their messenger, they have recently done a big upgrade on yahoo 360 that moves them in the myspace/facebook direction with lots of community features added (these also integrate back to the mail interface). I would be worried that unless they spend some resources on the yahoo groups that eventually they will abandon it. They are a for profit company and if in the end they don't spend money on it then they don't think it is a profitable part of their technology. Eventually they will stop spending to maintain it at all. Again a bit of perspective. Have you ever read Google's terms of service. basically if you use their services they own rights and can use any content that you post or send through any of their services. In practice I don't think they have taken advantage of the fine print they have in there. It might not even still be in there, but a year or two ago when I read it, it was pretty evil empire scary. I guess people need to sit down and think about what is the goal or mission statement for origami boat building and its community. Is it to move toward a proprietary model where everyone goes through a few people? I think Brent would have the most legitimate claim to something like that. I haven't really noticed that he is trying to do that. As a matter of fact I have seen posts by him on 5 or 6 other sites promoting origami boat building and his philosophy of simple but rugged construction. The only way he has every limited others freedom to pass on his ideas is just don't copy and give away his book. He makes money for the time he spent putting the information together in a book format. He hasn't ever bitched about anyone writing or posting anything they have written about origami boat building as long as they generated it on their own and didn't just copy his book or his boat designs. My perspective is that there should be at least 3 sites on different services that hold the origami community content. How many websites and services have disappeared over the years and taken most of their content with them. I just recently bought a domain and built a site for Downeaster yachts( http://downeasteryachts.com ) I recently bought a 38 footer knowing that there was lot of information on the boats out on two different community websites as well as a forum. Both website were gone when I went to look again. one site wasn't in the Internet time machine/wayback machine and the other one was missing 40% of its content on there. I was lucky in that I was able to track down the web masters of both the old sites and they were willing to give me a copy of the entire content of the two sites that I then built a new website with and created a forum integrated into the site. Right now if I get run over in the street it is possible that all that information that other owners use on a daily basis will go away for good unless someone else picks it up and copies it before my paid web accounts expire. I am planning on making backups to a couple of the other members that have the knowledge to recreate the site if needed. The Internet isn't a permanent place. Stuff comes and goes at other peoples whim. If you are on a free service of some sort then you are at the whim of the owners of that service. If you are paying then you are at the whim of can that company stay in business. You better have backups of all your content. Just a fact!!! I make my living with this stuff and can say it with authority based on 15 years of paying my bills doing it. Have it on yahoo, have it on Google, have it somewhere else also as well as let several people take monthly backups of everything to store in case it all goes away and needs to be recreated. My personal opinion is that yahoo is fairly limited in its features nowadays and their policy on controlling the access to the content and backing it up is a bit scary. They are not enhancing their features to attract new groups and retain current groups, instead they are controlling access to the data already here to make it hard for existing groups to leave or have control over their own content. Is the goal to control access to origami building information or to make sure it is disseminated and available for everyone? How about each and everyone of us think about whether we are willing to have anyone copy anything we have posted on this forum and use it or copy it to somewhere else? Personally if I have written it on a public forum it is my contribution to humanity for good or bad. If it is something I have written on my personal website then come ask first before copying it as it is mine. as to mirroring info you should be able to do current post easily enough. just create a user that gets individual emails and create a script to repost them to a different service on a forum there. If I were doing it I would probably do it the hard way and just go back to the very first posts on this forum and skim through them just copying what I considered pertinent content to a new database driven website based format with a forum included like I built for the downeasteryachts.com website. It is easy to build and you can give all kinds of people different levels of access so that more than one person can author and edit content and moderate the forums. It would also be easier to create a mirror of that website and forum or backups to multiple people. I am not volunteering to do this though. :) I simply don't have the time in the near to mid future as I am working on my boat now to go cruising myself. :) So don't take this as my bid to create another site also. so ... just a bit to think about for everyone. What is the origami group? What is its goal regarding the ownership, longevity and retention of community postings and information on origami boat building? Is the goal to create a repository of information for everyone? Is it to maintain a centralized and controlled single source for information? Why did most of the members here post technical information on building their boats? Was it to broadcast to to just this group that knowledge or are they willing to let anyone use that information and redistribute it for the benefit of anyone anywhere? I think that because Brent holds the respect of the majority for his overwhelming contributions, that his views on this would be most likely to be respected. Not to mention that I don't think that the rest of us could possibly agree on any one policy given the many and diverse opinions that have been expressed by all of the rugged individualists that live here :) Scott Carle| 21810|21722|2009-12-29 10:08:22|James Pronk|Re: Storm anchoring or avoidance discussion|Hey Gary Are you still out at your boat? You have been spending a lot of time on the hook have you not? How are you finding the set-up with the winch and mooring bits.   How do most of you hook up a snubber, are you hooking from the chain to something on deck or back to the chain?  I have only hooked the snubber from chain to chain so the main load is on the chain and the snubber is not even on deck to chafe. James  --- On Tue, 12/29/09, GP wrote: From: GP Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Storm anchoring or avoidance discussion To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Received: Tuesday, December 29, 2009, 8:38 AM   Hi Steve... thanks for that...helluva read. Appears the snubbers broke not his rode; not a failure of the anchor. Would our bow rollers have done better? (if the problem was at the bow rollers?)... Gary --- In origamiboats@ yahoogroups. com, "steve" wrote: > > Here is a link to a good discussion on storm anchoring on the Sailing Anarchy forum. Only a bit of flaming. > > http://forums. sailinganarchy. com/index. php?showtopic= 100772&st= 0&start=0 > __________________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Canada Toolbar: Search from anywhere on the web, and bookmark your favourite sites. Download it now http://ca.toolbar.yahoo.com. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 21811|21784|2009-12-29 12:02:58|Aaron Williams|Re: What information to put on Google Origamiboats Group?|James I was thinking wild explorer first name might be Jim, that from a direct email between the two of us. Most people here use a real name at one time or another. Aaron --- On Tue, 12/29/09, James Pronk wrote: From: James Pronk Subject: Re: [origamiboats] Re: What information to put on Google Origamiboats Group? To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, December 29, 2009, 5:24 AM   --- On Tue, 12/29/09, Aaron Williams wrote: That is a reasonable question Aaron. I am a tool and die maker by trade. I was doing a lot of prototype work for the auto industry. I needed a break and decided to blacksmithing till I ran out of money. That was 10 years ago, you can see some of my work on google images. As for sailing, I've been sailing on and off for about 24 years. I have owned 6 boats, my first being a Flipper Scow that I picked-up at a yard sale for $10 to the boat that I have now, a Catalina 27 that was being used as a garbage dumpster. I've been sailing it for two years now. I sailed an O'Day 22 on every lake on the Trent Severn water way. After work I would drive to the boat sail or motor as far as I could, (to the first closed lock) stay the night, bike to my car and drive to work. I am working on a Brent Swain 36 right now, I will post the work that I have done so far.  I am also a part time welding instructor at a local college. James Pronk P.S. I will need to try to build a boat using 3D software. " After making 3D model you are experienced metal work technologist and boat builder " Wow 25 years and all that work and all I had to do was build a boat on a computer to become a Metal working techonlogist and a boat builder!   From: Aaron Williams Subject: Re: [origamiboats] Re: What information to put on Google Origamiboats Group? To: origamiboats@ yahoogroups. com Received: Tuesday, December 29, 2009, 1:09 AM   Who is Wild explorer does anyone know anything about him? Jim Would you to tell us a little bit more about yourself? Aaron ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _ Yahoo! Canada Toolbar: Search from anywhere on the web, and bookmark your favourite sites. Download it now http://ca.toolbar yahoo.com. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 21812|21812|2009-12-29 12:20:08|SHANE ROTHWELL|Buggering with the group|Gentlemen, I wasn't going to say anything, but obviously I'm not the only one..... -------------------------------------------------- Wild Wanker, Being considerably far past just being gauled by the bloody idocy & arogance of "wild explorer" (fer christ sake man, are you ashamed to use your own name?) with his comments of "ALL RESONABLE REQUESTS CONSIDERED" and "THIS SUBJECT IS OFF LIMITS TO THIS SITE" (aren't we just a tad dictatorial?) as well as his comments of how woefully inadequate the set up is to his obviously bloody superior intelect... A couple of suggestions: 1. how about using your name (wild explorer....get bloody real!) 2. how about silence on ANYTHING that does not directly concern boats? 3. otherwise, why don't you and Ben take your private little circle jerk offline, email each other directly, twist it into a knot and ram it up your nose. But STOP BUGGERING with this site. There is way more spam on it than is needed and all you are doing is causing dammage. Some of us have an interest in actually LEARNING and SHARING INFOROMATION and have no interest in being dictated to, by you or anyone else. Hopefully this will provoke thought! see #2 above. I am sure that I'm not the only one who is sick of the bullshit. Shane Rothwell __________________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Canada Toolbar: Search from anywhere on the web, and bookmark your favourite sites. Download it now http://ca.toolbar.yahoo.com| 21813|21812|2009-12-29 14:55:05|gschnell@shaw.ca|Re: Buggering with the group|Thankyou Shane! This guy really is getting to be a pain!!!!! Gord Sent wirelessly from my BlackBerry device on the Bell network. Envoy� sans fil par mon terminal mobile BlackBerry sur le r�seau de Bell. -----Original Message----- From: SHANE ROTHWELL Date: Tue, 29 Dec 2009 09:19:50 To: Subject: [origamiboats] Buggering with the group Gentlemen, I wasn't going to say anything, but obviously I'm not the only one..... -------------------------------------------------- Wild Wanker, Being considerably far past just being gauled by the bloody idocy & arogance of "wild explorer" (fer christ sake man, are you ashamed to use your own name?) with his comments of "ALL RESONABLE REQUESTS CONSIDERED" and "THIS SUBJECT IS OFF LIMITS TO THIS SITE" (aren't we just a tad dictatorial?) as well as his comments of how woefully inadequate the set up is to his obviously bloody superior intelect... A couple of suggestions: 1. how about using your name (wild explorer....get bloody real!) 2. how about silence on ANYTHING that does not directly concern boats? 3. otherwise, why don't you and Ben take your private little circle jerk offline, email each other directly, twist it into a knot and ram it up your nose. But STOP BUGGERING with this site. There is way more spam on it than is needed and all you are doing is causing dammage. Some of us have an interest in actually LEARNING and SHARING INFOROMATION and have no interest in being dictated to, by you or anyone else. Hopefully this will provoke thought! see #2 above. I am sure that I'm not the only one who is sick of the bullshit. Shane Rothwell __________________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Canada Toolbar: Search from anywhere on the web, and bookmark your favourite sites. Download it now http://ca.toolbar.yahoo.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]| 21814|21722|2009-12-29 15:27:15|steve|Re: Storm anchoring or avoidance discussion|Gary , I have tended to attach my 1/2" 3-strand nylon snubber to the caprail cleat and then by rolling hitch or chain hook to the chain. It doesn't usually go through the roller on my boat. I also have one of those rubber dock-line snubber gizmos incorporated in the snubber ( a bonus find at an anchorage in the Gulf Islands one winter). This seems to work fine around BC even in strong winds , because we never have to use anchorages that have any significant exposure or fetch. Even in the Calif. Channel Islands or Mexico I have managed to avoid anchoring in significant wave action. The fellow on 'Moonduster' ended up in survival conditions , a calculated risk that didn't work out. Based on his experience and the discussion by others on that forum , I will add a second big, long snubber , perhaps of 3/4" polyester or polypropylene about 20 or 30' long shackled to a chain hook or plate (which would require a 2 part harness , I think). Paul on "Opus" described this. I wouldn't usually use this snubber. This set-up would be for conditions such as 'Moonduster' encountered in Tropical Storm season or in more exposed high-latitude anchorages such as Easter Is or the southern part of the Chilean channels , Falklands , S. Georgia etc. Of course the other option is to choose different seasons and destinations , but that kind of choice is not for everyone. And yes it was the snubbers that failed , his usual-sized anchor (Delta, I think) held just fine.And the whole system depended on the snubbers holding. Steve --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "GP" wrote: > > Hi Steve... thanks for that...helluva read. Appears the snubbers broke not his rode; not a failure of the anchor. Would our bow rollers have done better? (if the problem was at the bow rollers?)... > > Gary > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "steve" wrote: > > > > Here is a link to a good discussion on storm anchoring on the Sailing Anarchy forum. Only a bit of flaming. > > > > http://forums.sailinganarchy.com/index.php?showtopic=100772&st=0&start=0 > > > | 21815|21722|2009-12-29 16:29:30|Aaron Williams|Re: Storm anchoring or avoidance discussion|I was told I should but a snubber attachment point at or just above the waterline on the bow. Anyone else try something like that? Aaron  --- On Tue, 12/29/09, steve wrote: From: steve Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Storm anchoring or avoidance discussion To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, December 29, 2009, 11:26 AM   Gary , I have tended to attach my 1/2" 3-strand nylon snubber to the caprail cleat and then by rolling hitch or chain hook to the chain. It doesn't usually go through the roller on my boat. I also have one of those rubber dock-line snubber gizmos incorporated in the snubber ( a bonus find at an anchorage in the Gulf Islands one winter). This seems to work fine around BC even in strong winds , because we never have to use anchorages that have any significant exposure or fetch. Even in the Calif. Channel Islands or Mexico I have managed to avoid anchoring in significant wave action. The fellow on 'Moonduster' ended up in survival conditions , a calculated risk that didn't work out. Based on his experience and the discussion by others on that forum , I will add a second big, long snubber , perhaps of 3/4" polyester or polypropylene about 20 or 30' long shackled to a chain hook or plate (which would require a 2 part harness , I think). Paul on "Opus" described this. I wouldn't usually use this snubber. This set-up would be for conditions such as 'Moonduster' encountered in Tropical Storm season or in more exposed high-latitude anchorages such as Easter Is or the southern part of the Chilean channels , Falklands , S. Georgia etc. Of course the other option is to choose different seasons and destinations , but that kind of choice is not for everyone. And yes it was the snubbers that failed , his usual-sized anchor (Delta, I think) held just fine.And the whole system depended on the snubbers holding.. Steve --- In origamiboats@ yahoogroups. com, "GP" wrote: > > Hi Steve... thanks for that...helluva read. Appears the snubbers broke not his rode; not a failure of the anchor. Would our bow rollers have done better? (if the problem was at the bow rollers?)... > > Gary > > --- In origamiboats@ yahoogroups. com, "steve" wrote: > > > > Here is a link to a good discussion on storm anchoring on the Sailing Anarchy forum. Only a bit of flaming. > > > > http://forums. sailinganarchy. com/index. php?showtopic= 100772&st= 0&start=0 > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 21816|21812|2009-12-29 17:48:30|wild_explorer|Re: Buggering with the group|Shane, Your Triple-X language in message #21812 is really about "LEARNING and SHARING INFOROMATION".| 21817|21812|2009-12-29 18:50:51|James Pronk|Re: Buggering with the group|That is Shane. Welcome to the group! --- On Tue, 12/29/09, wild_explorer wrote: From: wild_explorer Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Buggering with the group To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Received: Tuesday, December 29, 2009, 5:48 PM   Shane, Your Triple-X language in message #21812 is really about "LEARNING and SHARING INFOROMATION" . __________________________________________________________________ The new Internet Explorer® 8 - Faster, safer, easier. Optimized for Yahoo! Get it Now for Free! at http://downloads.yahoo.com/ca/internetexplorer/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 21818|21812|2009-12-29 19:06:00|James Pronk|Re: Buggering with the group|Well put Shane. How is Plan B, did you get it rigged? How do you like the sail drive?  How is you new one, how old is she, 8 or 10 months? --- On Tue, 12/29/09, SHANE ROTHWELL wrote: From: SHANE ROTHWELL Subject: [origamiboats] Buggering with the group To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Received: Tuesday, December 29, 2009, 12:19 PM   Gentlemen, I wasn't going to say anything, but obviously I'm not the only one..... ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- -- Wild Wanker, Being considerably far past just being gauled by the bloody idocy & arogance of "wild explorer" (fer christ sake man, are you ashamed to use your own name?) with his comments of "ALL RESONABLE REQUESTS CONSIDERED" and "THIS SUBJECT IS OFF LIMITS TO THIS SITE" (aren't we just a tad dictatorial? ) as well as his comments of how woefully inadequate the set up is to his obviously bloody superior intelect... A couple of suggestions: 1. how about using your name (wild explorer.... get bloody real!) 2. how about silence on ANYTHING that does not directly concern boats? 3. otherwise, why don't you and Ben take your private little circle jerk offline, email each other directly, twist it into a knot and ram it up your nose. But STOP BUGGERING with this site. There is way more spam on it than is needed and all you are doing is causing dammage. Some of us have an interest in actually LEARNING and SHARING INFOROMATION and have no interest in being dictated to, by you or anyone else. Hopefully this will provoke thought! see #2 above. I am sure that I'm not the only one who is sick of the bullshit. Shane Rothwell ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _ Yahoo! Canada Toolbar: Search from anywhere on the web, and bookmark your favourite sites. Download it now http://ca.toolbar yahoo.com. __________________________________________________________________ Looking for the perfect gift? Give the gift of Flickr! http://www.flickr.com/gift/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 21819|21781|2009-12-29 19:19:42|kingsknight4life|Re: Interior volume for 26'|> Thierry, Why not just build the 30 footer? Brent sails his all the time by himself and it is quite roomy yet small enough to easily singlehand. I think they are pretty close in building costs. I've been aboard both and the space difference between the two is enromous. Two people coould easily liveon the 30 but one person is cramped in the 26. Rowland > | 21821|21821|2009-12-29 20:23:55|wild_explorer|Search by author - incomplete list of messages?|There are about 22K messages in this group. I was trying to search messages by author. Regular group's search result gives me LAST message on the list about 19K. Advanced search - about 16K. Am I only the one who cannot search messages posted with numbers higher than 19-19.7K? Take any author of last messages (let say 1-2 week ago) and try to do search (search box above message's list or A message).| 21822|22|2009-12-29 20:52:23|origamiboats@yahoogroups.com|New file uploaded to origamiboats |Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the origamiboats group. File : /archive posts/Origamiposts_2003_pt_2.txt Uploaded by : pectus_roboreus1 Description : Posts from the Origami forum/2003 pt 2, unzipped You can access this file at the URL: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/files/archive%20posts/Origamiposts_2003_pt_2.txt To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit: http://help.yahoo.com/l/us/yahoo/groups/original/members/forms/general.htmlfiles Regards, pectus_roboreus1 | 21823|22|2009-12-29 22:26:48|origamiboats@yahoogroups.com|New file uploaded to origamiboats |Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the origamiboats group. File : /archive posts/Origamiposts_2004_pt_1.txt Uploaded by : pectus_roboreus1 Description : Posts from 2004 pt 1, unzipped You can access this file at the URL: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/files/archive%20posts/Origamiposts_2004_pt_1.txt To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit: http://help.yahoo.com/l/us/yahoo/groups/original/members/forms/general.htmlfiles Regards, pectus_roboreus1 | 21824|21821|2009-12-29 23:54:55|Ben Okopnik|Re: Search by author - incomplete list of messages?|On Wed, Dec 30, 2009 at 01:23:43AM -0000, wild_explorer wrote: > There are about 22K messages in this group. I was trying to search > messages by author. Regular group's search result gives me LAST > message on the list about 19K. Advanced search - about 16K. > > Am I only the one who cannot search messages posted with numbers > higher than 19-19.7K? Take any author of last messages (let say 1-2 > week ago) and try to do search (search box above message's list or A > message). Confirmed. Searching for my own posts, the last one Yahoo lists is from March 16th - and according to my Sent_mail box, I've made 115 posts since then. Not what you'd call stellar results on Yahoo's part. -- OKOPNIK CONSULTING Custom Computing Solutions For Your Business Expert-led Training | Dynamic, vital websites | Custom programming 443-250-7895 http://okopnik.com| 21826|21812|2009-12-30 11:28:46|SHANE ROTHWELL|Buggering with the group|James, Thank you. Sorry, you must have me confused with someone else on this group as have no clue what you mean re Plan B, getting it rigged, the sail drive & the new one...(a baby it appears?) Shane James Pronk wrote: Tue Dec 29, 2009 4:06 pm (PST) Well put Shane. How is Plan B, did you get it rigged? How do you like the sail drive? How is you new one, how old is she, 8 or 10 months? RE: "wild explorer" Gee, you reprimand stings bad, real bad. Can't stand the heat? How about a bit of honesty, like a name perhaps? Or would that only be for others as you are 'wild explorer!" How impressive! A legend in his own mind! Of course your dictitorial comments "ALL REASONABLE REQUESTS CONSIDERED" and what was that... "THIS LINE OF DISGUSSION IS BANNED FROM THIS SITE"....amongst others are completely justified.......and I was SOOOO impressed the way you delt with the question in a straightforward honest manor. Wow! That must be "Wild Explorer"! Integrity, Guts, Honesty! And now that "Wild explorer" has a name.......er....what was that, the name that is? What's this, trying to achieve the ultimate dream of getting onto a "reality" show? ("we never knew him by anything other than "Wild explorer", and he tells us that he drove the key board ALL the way there............and back!) Actually, it does appear that you and the fraud, the "editor in chief" deserve each other. for confirmaiton of that, the fraud bit, you can read bach over past postings, it's all there in black & white. And fill your boots. Now, cut the crap. If you have a name, lets hear it. Maybe a bit of the justification for all your dictatorial bullshit? (I can't bloody wait!) If you have anything regarding something relivant, about boats perhaps, let 'er rip, but anything else, stifle and check out #2 from my last posting. Shane Rothwell __________________________________________________________________ Ask a question on any topic and get answers from real people. Go to Yahoo! Answers and share what you know at http://ca.answers.yahoo.com| 21827|21812|2009-12-30 13:19:04|Paul Cotter|Copper Ferrules|Has anyone used copper ferrules on stainless shrouds. stays, etc? I have come across several references that copper should be used on stainless. I am rigging another small boat and hoping to use a handheld swaging tool to keep it economical, yet strong. I can break test a few samples locally. Also, I have had some difficulty finding a supplier in the states, although Mcmaster-Carr does carry them. The local supplier is asking $2.44/each for 3/16" ferrules (about 4x what McMaster-Carr is charging). Are there any other suppliers out there? Ronstan makes them, but I don't know about compatibilty between metric and nonmetric sizes. Any advice is much appreciated. Paul > __________________________________________________________ > Ask a question on any topic and get answers from real people. Go to > Yahoo! Answers and share what you know at http://ca.answers.yahoo.com > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]| 21828|21812|2009-12-30 15:43:59|brentswain38|Re: Copper Ferrules|A rigger once told me that using a single sleeve on 1x19 is not a good idea, as stainless 1x19 is so smooth it doesn't get a good grip on it and they pull out easily. They work better on 7X7 or 7X19, as this wire has a much rougher surface. At any rate, copper is not much harder than aluminium sleeves , which break easily on galv wire. That is why I suggested putting them over a farm splice, as an added precaution. --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Paul Cotter wrote: > > Has anyone used copper ferrules on stainless shrouds. stays, etc? I > have come across several references that copper should be used on > stainless. I am rigging another small boat and hoping to use a > handheld swaging tool to keep it economical, yet strong. I can break > test a few samples locally. > > Also, I have had some difficulty finding a supplier in the states, > although Mcmaster-Carr does carry them. The local supplier is asking > $2.44/each for 3/16" ferrules (about 4x what McMaster-Carr is > charging). Are there any other suppliers out there? > > Ronstan makes them, but I don't know about compatibilty between > metric and nonmetric sizes. > > Any advice is much appreciated. > > Paul > > > > __________________________________________________________ > > Ask a question on any topic and get answers from real people. Go to > > Yahoo! Answers and share what you know at http://ca.answers.yahoo.com > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > | 21829|21722|2009-12-30 15:57:04|brentswain38|Re: Storm anchoring or avoidance discussion|The greater the distance between where the line crosses your bulwark , bow roller or whatever and the tie down point, the greater the chafe. This is because the bit of line between the chock or crossing point, and the tie down point stretches a bit , causing it to wear a bit on the crossing point. Steve's solution , making the cleat the point where it crosses the bulwark, almost totally eliminates chafe. Some go so far as to put the mooring bits directly on the bulwark, but I can't think of a way to make such an arrangement strong enough by tying it below decks, as I do with mooring bits. In extreme conditions I use the cleat for the starting point then take the rest onto the mooring bit. Taking only a few turns around the cleat, without cleating it off means far less movement at the chock or bulwark cap, but in extreme loads it will slip on the cleat , leaving the mooring bit to take the ultimate load. --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "steve" wrote: > > > > > Gary , > I have tended to attach my 1/2" 3-strand nylon snubber to the caprail cleat and then by rolling hitch or chain hook to the chain. It doesn't usually go through the roller on my boat. I also have one of those rubber dock-line snubber gizmos incorporated in the snubber ( a bonus find at an anchorage in the Gulf Islands one winter). > This seems to work fine around BC even in strong winds , because we never have to use anchorages that have any significant exposure or fetch. Even in the Calif. Channel Islands or Mexico I have managed to avoid anchoring in significant wave action. > > The fellow on 'Moonduster' ended up in survival conditions , a calculated risk that didn't work out. > > Based on his experience and the discussion by others on that forum , I will add a second big, long snubber , perhaps of 3/4" polyester or polypropylene about 20 or 30' long shackled to a chain hook or plate (which would require a 2 part harness , I think). Paul on "Opus" described this. I wouldn't usually use this snubber. > > This set-up would be for conditions such as 'Moonduster' encountered in Tropical Storm season or in more exposed high-latitude anchorages such as Easter Is or the southern part of the Chilean channels , Falklands , S. Georgia etc. > > Of course the other option is to choose different seasons and destinations , but that kind of choice is not for everyone. > > And yes it was the snubbers that failed , his usual-sized anchor (Delta, I think) held just fine.And the whole system depended on the snubbers holding. > > Steve > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "GP" wrote: > > > > Hi Steve... thanks for that...helluva read. Appears the snubbers broke not his rode; not a failure of the anchor. Would our bow rollers have done better? (if the problem was at the bow rollers?)... > > > > Gary > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "steve" wrote: > > > > > > Here is a link to a good discussion on storm anchoring on the Sailing Anarchy forum. Only a bit of flaming. > > > > > > http://forums.sailinganarchy.com/index.php?showtopic=100772&st=0&start=0 > > > > > > | 21830|21722|2009-12-30 16:08:15|brentswain38|Re: Storm anchoring or avoidance discussion|One way to eliminate chafe on lines is to run a bit of chain for the first couple of feet. This works well for drogues. In flat water, anchoring from the stern eliminates sailing on the hook, drastically reducing loads on the anchor and rode. The boat lays head downwind, like a dead duck and the only load is windage on your rig, transom and wheelhouse, a tiny fraction of the loads on a boat sailing on the hook, coming repeatedly beam on to the wind, and being fetched up and stopped repeatedly by her anchor. This was the main cause of the disaster in question. --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "brentswain38" wrote: > > The greater the distance between where the line crosses your bulwark , bow roller or whatever and the tie down point, the greater the chafe. This is because the bit of line between the chock or crossing point, and the tie down point stretches a bit , causing it to wear a bit on the crossing point. Steve's solution , making the cleat the point where it crosses the bulwark, almost totally eliminates chafe. Some go so far as to put the mooring bits directly on the bulwark, but I can't think of a way to make such an arrangement strong enough by tying it below decks, as I do with mooring bits. In extreme conditions I use the cleat for the starting point then take the rest onto the mooring bit. Taking only a few turns around the cleat, without cleating it off means far less movement at the chock or bulwark cap, but in extreme loads it will slip on the cleat , leaving the mooring bit to take the ultimate load. > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "steve" wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Gary , > > I have tended to attach my 1/2" 3-strand nylon snubber to the caprail cleat and then by rolling hitch or chain hook to the chain. It doesn't usually go through the roller on my boat. I also have one of those rubber dock-line snubber gizmos incorporated in the snubber ( a bonus find at an anchorage in the Gulf Islands one winter). > > This seems to work fine around BC even in strong winds , because we never have to use anchorages that have any significant exposure or fetch. Even in the Calif. Channel Islands or Mexico I have managed to avoid anchoring in significant wave action. > > > > The fellow on 'Moonduster' ended up in survival conditions , a calculated risk that didn't work out. > > > > Based on his experience and the discussion by others on that forum , I will add a second big, long snubber , perhaps of 3/4" polyester or polypropylene about 20 or 30' long shackled to a chain hook or plate (which would require a 2 part harness , I think). Paul on "Opus" described this. I wouldn't usually use this snubber. > > > > This set-up would be for conditions such as 'Moonduster' encountered in Tropical Storm season or in more exposed high-latitude anchorages such as Easter Is or the southern part of the Chilean channels , Falklands , S. Georgia etc. > > > > Of course the other option is to choose different seasons and destinations , but that kind of choice is not for everyone. > > > > And yes it was the snubbers that failed , his usual-sized anchor (Delta, I think) held just fine.And the whole system depended on the snubbers holding. > > > > Steve > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "GP" wrote: > > > > > > Hi Steve... thanks for that...helluva read. Appears the snubbers broke not his rode; not a failure of the anchor. Would our bow rollers have done better? (if the problem was at the bow rollers?)... > > > > > > Gary > > > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "steve" wrote: > > > > > > > > Here is a link to a good discussion on storm anchoring on the Sailing Anarchy forum. Only a bit of flaming. > > > > > > > > http://forums.sailinganarchy.com/index.php?showtopic=100772&st=0&start=0 > > > > > > > > > > | 21831|21722|2009-12-30 16:12:16|theboilerflue|Re: Storm anchoring or avoidance discussion|One thing I found strange about this guys thing was that the anchor chain wasn't tied off as well, it was just relying on the snubber. When I was anchoring last summer I had the chain wraped around the mooring bit AND through the chain clip on top of the bit AND the dog AND winch handle engaged on the winch, If I were to use a snubber and I will at some point I'd do the same and also tie the snubber to the cleat on the bow, if it broke at least the boat would still be tied. --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, James Pronk wrote: > > Hey Gary > Are you still out at your boat? > You have been spending a lot of time on the hook have you not? How are you finding the set-up with the winch and mooring bits. >   > How do most of you hook up a snubber, are you hooking from the chain to something on deck or back to the chain? >  I have only hooked the snubber from chain to chain so the main load is on the chain and the snubber is not even on deck to chafe. > James  > > > --- On Tue, 12/29/09, GP wrote: > > > From: GP > Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Storm anchoring or avoidance discussion > To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > Received: Tuesday, December 29, 2009, 8:38 AM > > >   > > > > Hi Steve... thanks for that...helluva read. Appears the snubbers broke not his rode; not a failure of the anchor. Would our bow rollers have done better? (if the problem was at the bow rollers?)... > > Gary > > --- In origamiboats@ yahoogroups. com, "steve" wrote: > > > > Here is a link to a good discussion on storm anchoring on the Sailing Anarchy forum. Only a bit of flaming. > > > > http://forums. sailinganarchy. com/index. php?showtopic= 100772&st= 0&start=0 > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________________________ > Yahoo! Canada Toolbar: Search from anywhere on the web, and bookmark your favourite sites. Download it now > http://ca.toolbar.yahoo.com. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > | 21832|21718|2009-12-30 16:36:00|brentswain38|Re: steel thickness|Your 40 footer will be about 1600 lbs heavier with 1/4 plate, not excessive, but she will be a little slower in light airs. You could go a bit taller on the rig to compensate. 1600 is small change compared to the tons of stuff people put aboard once they start cruising. If it's cheap, go for it. --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Michael J" wrote: > > Hey everybody, > > I have watched the video and read the book and feel comfortable with the process. Another person in my area was going to start a different build but has abandoned the project. He will sell my his steel for a steal. However, it's 1/4" and not 3/16" like the materials list specifies. BTW, I would build a 40' boat. How would using 1/4" steel affect this? > > Thanks for the info, > > Michael > | 21833|21812|2009-12-30 16:47:44|theboilerflue|Re: Buggering with the group|Whoa there Shane, take it easy you might end up ostracising the poor guy, I'm not too concerned by the name or lack there of I myself use an alias - it's what I use as a user name from time ot time. real name: haidan. Wild, I think perhaps English is not your first language, (not that your English is bad) your English is quite good but with some grammatical errors from time to time, I think some of your comments are taken a little too literally such as: "After making 3D model you are experienced metal work technologist and boatbuilder" - I don't think that translates literally but rather that it gives one a good sense of how the metal fits together in a curved environment and how one makes round shapes from flat sheets of steel. Wild I myself think that you'd be better off if you just threw yourself into the building of the boat and learned from that, as a 3d graphical model can't bring you out sailing - which is your goal? to go sailing? as soon as possible? - maybe I'm projecting, that is my goal. I would however love to see a nice 3d model of my boat though and the (theoretical) performance calculations of it. So if that's what you want to do -go nuts. I have no problem with someone setting up another mirror site, especially if one were to weed through the posts and assemble nice topic groupings of them. I can understand why you'd want this as well cause I don't know how many of you members have tied out the search option here on yahoo but it's not very good and is extremely hard to find posts (even if you know they exist). And there is a lot of good information on this forum, there is also a lot of not so useful info so a nicely groomed assemblage would be nice. "3. otherwise, why don't you and Ben take your private little circle jerk offline, email each other directly, twist it into a knot and ram it up your nose." - not bad advice. Ben you have tons of very useful info for this group and I respect you for it but at times (and shane too) private messages would work just fine (like #2) this IS about boats and boat building And while were at it I'll introduce myself to the group for all you new arrivals. my name's Haidan, I bought a Brent Swain 36 from Alex Christie, the one built in his video by Brent come January 3rd it'll be two years since I have had the boat and have been working on it, I launched it off the dike road in Comox mid July this last summer and am now building the interior at a dock in Courtenay. I am probably the youngest member on the group at 25 and had some welding experience growing up on a farm as a kid but it was limited nor have I worked any particularly technical jobs that would give me some basis to boat building, I'm just figuring it out as I go which, has it's ups and downs but I'm in the water. haidan --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, SHANE ROTHWELL wrote: > > Gentlemen, > > I wasn't going to say anything, but obviously I'm not the only one..... > > -------------------------------------------------- > Wild Wanker, > > Being considerably far past just being gauled by the bloody idocy & arogance of "wild explorer" (fer christ sake man, are you ashamed to use your own name?) with his comments of "ALL RESONABLE REQUESTS CONSIDERED" and "THIS SUBJECT IS OFF LIMITS TO THIS SITE" (aren't we just a tad dictatorial?) as well as his comments of how woefully inadequate the set up is to his obviously bloody superior intelect... > > A couple of suggestions: > 1. how about using your name (wild explorer....get bloody real!) > 2. how about silence on ANYTHING that does not directly concern boats? > 3. otherwise, why don't you and Ben take your private little circle jerk offline, email each other directly, twist it into a knot and ram it up your nose. > > But STOP BUGGERING with this site. There is way more spam on it than is needed and all you are doing is causing dammage. > > Some of us have an interest in actually LEARNING and SHARING INFOROMATION and have no interest in being dictated to, by you or anyone else. > > Hopefully this will provoke thought! > > see #2 above. I am sure that I'm not the only one who is sick of the bullshit. > > Shane Rothwell > > > > > > __________________________________________________________________ > Yahoo! Canada Toolbar: Search from anywhere on the web, and bookmark your favourite sites. Download it now > http://ca.toolbar.yahoo.com > | 21834|21821|2009-12-30 16:52:39|theboilerflue|Re: Search by author - incomplete list of messages?|NO the search thing here has never really worked for me very well I even have trouble finding messages that I have written and I know they say " blah blah blah" and nothing comes up in the search even searching for messages by a certain author turns up a sceptical amount of returns. --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "wild_explorer" wrote: > > There are about 22K messages in this group. I was trying to search messages by author. Regular group's search result gives me LAST message on the list about 19K. Advanced search - about 16K. > > Am I only the one who cannot search messages posted with numbers higher than 19-19.7K? Take any author of last messages (let say 1-2 week ago) and try to do search (search box above message's list or A message). > | 21835|21812|2009-12-30 16:58:19|theboilerflue|Re: Copper Ferrules|I don't know where it tells you to use copper on stainless but it seems like a bad idea - they're dissimilar metals the only use for that on a boat is in those little black boxes you have wired to your distribution panel. If I had to use something other than more stainless I'd go with painted mild or galv maybe. --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Paul Cotter wrote: > > Has anyone used copper ferrules on stainless shrouds. stays, etc? I > have come across several references that copper should be used on > stainless. I am rigging another small boat and hoping to use a > handheld swaging tool to keep it economical, yet strong. I can break > test a few samples locally. > > Also, I have had some difficulty finding a supplier in the states, > although Mcmaster-Carr does carry them. The local supplier is asking > $2.44/each for 3/16" ferrules (about 4x what McMaster-Carr is > charging). Are there any other suppliers out there? > > Ronstan makes them, but I don't know about compatibilty between > metric and nonmetric sizes. > > Any advice is much appreciated. > > Paul > > > > __________________________________________________________ > > Ask a question on any topic and get answers from real people. Go to > > Yahoo! Answers and share what you know at http://ca.answers.yahoo.com > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > | 21836|21722|2009-12-30 18:09:06|James Pronk|Re: Storm anchoring or avoidance discussion|Haidan how much chain do you have on the winch and what kind of chain are you using and what size is it. What size of chain is recommended for a 36. I was thinking I would use cable but I can get a deal on chain. James  --- On Wed, 12/30/09, theboilerflue wrote: From: theboilerflue Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Storm anchoring or avoidance discussion To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Received: Wednesday, December 30, 2009, 4:12 PM   One thing I found strange about this guys thing was that the anchor chain wasn't tied off as well, it was just relying on the snubber. When I was anchoring last summer I had the chain wraped around the mooring bit AND through the chain clip on top of the bit AND the dog AND winch handle engaged on the winch, If I were to use a snubber and I will at some point I'd do the same and also tie the snubber to the cleat on the bow, if it broke at least the boat would still be tied. --- In origamiboats@ yahoogroups. com, James Pronk wrote: > > Hey Gary > Are you still out at your boat? > You have been spending a lot of time on the hook have you not? How are you finding the set-up with the winch and mooring bits. >   > How do most of you hook up a snubber, are you hooking from the chain to something on deck or back to the chain? >  I have only hooked the snubber from chain to chain so the main load is on the chain and the snubber is not even on deck to chafe. > James  > > > --- On Tue, 12/29/09, GP wrote: > > > From: GP > Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Storm anchoring or avoidance discussion > To: origamiboats@ yahoogroups. com > Received: Tuesday, December 29, 2009, 8:38 AM > > >   > > > > Hi Steve... thanks for that...helluva read. Appears the snubbers broke not his rode; not a failure of the anchor. Would our bow rollers have done better? (if the problem was at the bow rollers?)... > > Gary > > --- In origamiboats@ yahoogroups. com, "steve" wrote: > > > > Here is a link to a good discussion on storm anchoring on the Sailing Anarchy forum. Only a bit of flaming. > > > > http://forums. sailinganarchy. com/index. php?showtopic= 100772&st= 0&start=0 > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _ > Yahoo! Canada Toolbar: Search from anywhere on the web, and bookmark your favourite sites. Download it now > http://ca.toolbar. yahoo.com. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > __________________________________________________________________ Looking for the perfect gift? Give the gift of Flickr! http://www.flickr.com/gift/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 21837|21837|2009-12-30 18:10:54|Tantonyachts@aol.com|Happy New Year.|Wishing; expectinthe best for all. Rgds, Y-M T [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]| 21838|21812|2009-12-30 18:28:27|Paul Cotter|Re: Copper Ferrules|I share your skepticism on the copper (for the reasons you outlined), but it seems to be what the sailboat rigging supply outfits (Ronstan, Bosun, etc.) I have found carry/sell. A few sites have specified copper ferrules over stainless wires on sailboats in marine environments. No one discourages ss ferrules, but they are not readily pressed with hand compression tools. I'll keep poking around. Paul On Dec 30, 2009, at 12:58 PM, theboilerflue wrote: > I don't know where it tells you to use copper on stainless but it > seems like a bad idea - they're dissimilar metals the only use for > that on a boat is in those little black boxes you have wired to > your distribution panel. If I had to use something other than more > stainless I'd go with painted mild or galv maybe. > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Paul Cotter > wrote: > > > > Has anyone used copper ferrules on stainless shrouds. stays, etc? I > > have come across several references that copper should be used on > > stainless. I am rigging another small boat and hoping to use a > > handheld swaging tool to keep it economical, yet strong. I can break > > test a few samples locally. > > > > Also, I have had some difficulty finding a supplier in the states, > > although Mcmaster-Carr does carry them. The local supplier is asking > > $2.44/each for 3/16" ferrules (about 4x what McMaster-Carr is > > charging). Are there any other suppliers out there? > > > > Ronstan makes them, but I don't know about compatibilty between > > metric and nonmetric sizes. > > > > Any advice is much appreciated. > > > > Paul > > > > > > > __________________________________________________________ > > > Ask a question on any topic and get answers from real people. > Go to > > > Yahoo! Answers and share what you know at http:// > ca.answers.yahoo.com > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 21839|21812|2009-12-30 18:36:26|James Pronk|Re: Buggering with the group|Sorry Shane, I had you mixed up with Shane Duncan James --- On Wed, 12/30/09, SHANE ROTHWELL wrote: From: SHANE ROTHWELL Subject: [origamiboats] Buggering with the group To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Received: Wednesday, December 30, 2009, 11:28 AM   James, Thank you. Sorry, you must have me confused with someone else on this group as have no clue what you mean re Plan B, getting it rigged, the sail drive & the new one...(a baby it appears?) Shane James Pronk wrote: Tue Dec 29, 2009 4:06 pm (PST) Well put Shane. How is Plan B, did you get it rigged? How do you like the sail drive? How is you new one, how old is she, 8 or 10 months? RE: "wild explorer" Gee, you reprimand stings bad, real bad. Can't stand the heat? How about a bit of honesty, like a name perhaps? Or would that only be for others as you are 'wild explorer!" How impressive! A legend in his own mind! Of course your dictitorial comments "ALL REASONABLE REQUESTS CONSIDERED" and what was that... "THIS LINE OF DISGUSSION IS BANNED FROM THIS SITE"....amongst others are completely justified... ....and I was SOOOO impressed the way you delt with the question in a straightforward honest manor. Wow! That must be "Wild Explorer"! Integrity, Guts, Honesty! And now that "Wild explorer" has a name.......er. ...what was that, the name that is? What's this, trying to achieve the ultimate dream of getting onto a "reality" show? ("we never knew him by anything other than "Wild explorer", and he tells us that he drove the key board ALL the way there....... .....and back!) Actually, it does appear that you and the fraud, the "editor in chief" deserve each other. for confirmaiton of that, the fraud bit, you can read bach over past postings, it's all there in black & white. And fill your boots. Now, cut the crap. If you have a name, lets hear it. Maybe a bit of the justification for all your dictatorial bullshit? (I can't bloody wait!) If you have anything regarding something relivant, about boats perhaps, let 'er rip, but anything else, stifle and check out #2 from my last posting. Shane Rothwell ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _ Ask a question on any topic and get answers from real people. Go to Yahoo! Answers and share what you know at http://ca.answers yahoo.com __________________________________________________________________ Make your browsing faster, safer, and easier with the new Internet Explorer® 8. Optimized for Yahoo! Get it Now for Free! at http://downloads.yahoo.com/ca/internetexplorer/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 21840|21840|2009-12-30 18:49:04|brentswain38|Free Tarps|Lumber yards everywhere throw out dumpsters full of polyweave tarps , which they use to cover lumber with. They are tough as hell, black on one side ( max UV resistance) and white on the other ( max heat reflection for temporary awnings in heat waves ) Lumber yards would be happy to have you take them away as freebies. Once you have used them once, they owe you nothing. The price is right.| 21841|21722|2009-12-30 18:58:11|theboilerflue|Re: Storm anchoring or avoidance discussion|well let's see.... I have about 125 feet of 3/8 (maybe it's 7/16 i can't remember right now) chain I got used on the winch as it is now I just used whatever I could get my hands on for pretty cheap, Steve gave me his rusty stuff and I used that for the summer until I picked up some more for cheap (used, again rusty) and I switched that out for the newer longer stuff, I picked up some more used rusty stuff earlier this month about 100 feet of nice short length 7/16 stuff which I'll probably use on the main bow anchor and use some on the secondary anchor. I had some problems with the 20lbs danforth knock off I had as a stern anchor not ever really digging in and dragging under almost no wind. Brent suggested tightening the angle of the flukes which I'll do at some point, although, with the last bunch of chain I also picked up a nice 45 pound delta for cheap so I'll switch that for the main bow anchor and use the 45 bruce for the stern since i don't trust that danforth thing as far as I can throw it. I can throw it about 10 feet off the boat so not very far but I attached the chain steve gave me (70 feet 3/8) to it and although I can hardly throw it off the stern at all now I am more inclined to trust it from now on. The short link stuff I got is really nice cause the links are tighter, they're almost round as you get more weight per foot and with the Brent winch you don't have to worry about it as you would with a gypsy. I have under the chain some 3/4 inch 3 strand laid rope, I have no idea what it's made of, it doesn't melt and it's shiny like silk. I got it from my brother in law who took it from a job site he was managing after they used it to hold down this temporary large tarp roof thing, positive pressure tarp roof like GM place. I was also thinking of using cable since it's so strong and cheap brent suggested having it in 50 lengths attached together so you have a place to tie it off every fifty feet but it would be nice to figure something out to be able to use one piece. How much is the "deal" on new chain - i'm just curious what a good deal is on chain? --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, James Pronk wrote: > > Haidan > how much chain do you have on the winch and what kind of chain are you using and what size is it. > What size of chain is recommended for a 36. > I was thinking I would use cable but I can get a deal on chain. > James  > > --- On Wed, 12/30/09, theboilerflue wrote: > > > From: theboilerflue > Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Storm anchoring or avoidance discussion > To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > Received: Wednesday, December 30, 2009, 4:12 PM > > >   > > > > One thing I found strange about this guys thing was that the anchor chain wasn't tied off as well, it was just relying on the snubber. When I was anchoring last summer I had the chain wraped around the mooring bit AND through the chain clip on top of the bit AND the dog AND winch handle engaged on the winch, If I were to use a snubber and I will at some point I'd do the same and also tie the snubber to the cleat on the bow, if it broke at least the boat would still be tied. > > --- In origamiboats@ yahoogroups. com, James Pronk wrote: > > > > Hey Gary > > Are you still out at your boat? > > You have been spending a lot of time on the hook have you not? How are you finding the set-up with the winch and mooring bits. > >   > > How do most of you hook up a snubber, are you hooking from the chain to something on deck or back to the chain? > >  I have only hooked the snubber from chain to chain so the main load is on the chain and the snubber is not even on deck to chafe. > > James  > > > > > > --- On Tue, 12/29/09, GP wrote: > > > > > > From: GP > > Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Storm anchoring or avoidance discussion > > To: origamiboats@ yahoogroups. com > > Received: Tuesday, December 29, 2009, 8:38 AM > > > > > >   > > > > > > > > Hi Steve... thanks for that...helluva read. Appears the snubbers broke not his rode; not a failure of the anchor. Would our bow rollers have done better? (if the problem was at the bow rollers?)... > > > > Gary > > > > --- In origamiboats@ yahoogroups. com, "steve" wrote: > > > > > > Here is a link to a good discussion on storm anchoring on the Sailing Anarchy forum. Only a bit of flaming. > > > > > > http://forums. sailinganarchy. com/index. php?showtopic= 100772&st= 0&start=0 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _ > > Yahoo! Canada Toolbar: Search from anywhere on the web, and bookmark your favourite sites. Download it now > > http://ca.toolbar. yahoo.com. > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________________________ > Looking for the perfect gift? Give the gift of Flickr! > > http://www.flickr.com/gift/ > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > | 21842|21812|2009-12-30 19:10:33|theboilerflue|Re: Copper Ferrules|yeah even north island ropes here seems to want press copper sleeves on their customers or if they didn't want copper than they'd try to press aluminium onto them, it took some discussion for them to put steel ones on for me. They had all sorts of bad ideas, I figured it was because they aren't used to a marine environment there and would have thought a boating store would know better, but i guess it insures that you keep coming back for more. looks like the voltage potential between copper and stainless is just under 0.4v. --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Paul Cotter wrote: > > I share your skepticism on the copper (for the reasons you outlined), > but it seems to be what the sailboat rigging supply outfits (Ronstan, > Bosun, etc.) I have found carry/sell. A few sites have specified > copper ferrules over stainless wires on sailboats in marine > environments. No one discourages ss ferrules, but they are not > readily pressed with hand compression tools. I'll keep poking around. > Paul > > > > On Dec 30, 2009, at 12:58 PM, theboilerflue wrote: > > > I don't know where it tells you to use copper on stainless but it > > seems like a bad idea - they're dissimilar metals the only use for > > that on a boat is in those little black boxes you have wired to > > your distribution panel. If I had to use something other than more > > stainless I'd go with painted mild or galv maybe. > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Paul Cotter > > wrote: > > > > > > Has anyone used copper ferrules on stainless shrouds. stays, etc? I > > > have come across several references that copper should be used on > > > stainless. I am rigging another small boat and hoping to use a > > > handheld swaging tool to keep it economical, yet strong. I can break > > > test a few samples locally. > > > > > > Also, I have had some difficulty finding a supplier in the states, > > > although Mcmaster-Carr does carry them. The local supplier is asking > > > $2.44/each for 3/16" ferrules (about 4x what McMaster-Carr is > > > charging). Are there any other suppliers out there? > > > > > > Ronstan makes them, but I don't know about compatibilty between > > > metric and nonmetric sizes. > > > > > > Any advice is much appreciated. > > > > > > Paul > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________________ > > > > Ask a question on any topic and get answers from real people. > > Go to > > > > Yahoo! Answers and share what you know at http:// > > ca.answers.yahoo.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > | 21843|21722|2009-12-30 19:57:09|GP|Re: Storm anchoring or avoidance discussion|Brent... do you mean that you would have anchored stern to the wind.. in that survival situation. In other words anchoring perhaps quartering from the stern to the wind? Gary --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "brentswain38" wrote: > > > One way to eliminate chafe on lines is to run a bit of chain for the first couple of feet. This works well for drogues. > In flat water, anchoring from the stern eliminates sailing on the hook, drastically reducing loads on the anchor and rode. The boat lays head downwind, like a dead duck and the only load is windage on your rig, transom and wheelhouse, a tiny fraction of the loads on a boat sailing on the hook, coming repeatedly beam on to the wind, and being fetched up and stopped repeatedly by her anchor. This was the main cause of the disaster in question. > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "brentswain38" wrote: > > > > The greater the distance between where the line crosses your bulwark , bow roller or whatever and the tie down point, the greater the chafe. This is because the bit of line between the chock or crossing point, and the tie down point stretches a bit , causing it to wear a bit on the crossing point. Steve's solution , making the cleat the point where it crosses the bulwark, almost totally eliminates chafe. Some go so far as to put the mooring bits directly on the bulwark, but I can't think of a way to make such an arrangement strong enough by tying it below decks, as I do with mooring bits. In extreme conditions I use the cleat for the starting point then take the rest onto the mooring bit. Taking only a few turns around the cleat, without cleating it off means far less movement at the chock or bulwark cap, but in extreme loads it will slip on the cleat , leaving the mooring bit to take the ultimate load. > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "steve" wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Gary , > > > I have tended to attach my 1/2" 3-strand nylon snubber to the caprail cleat and then by rolling hitch or chain hook to the chain. It doesn't usually go through the roller on my boat. I also have one of those rubber dock-line snubber gizmos incorporated in the snubber ( a bonus find at an anchorage in the Gulf Islands one winter). > > > This seems to work fine around BC even in strong winds , because we never have to use anchorages that have any significant exposure or fetch. Even in the Calif. Channel Islands or Mexico I have managed to avoid anchoring in significant wave action. > > > > > > The fellow on 'Moonduster' ended up in survival conditions , a calculated risk that didn't work out. > > > > > > Based on his experience and the discussion by others on that forum , I will add a second big, long snubber , perhaps of 3/4" polyester or polypropylene about 20 or 30' long shackled to a chain hook or plate (which would require a 2 part harness , I think). Paul on "Opus" described this. I wouldn't usually use this snubber. > > > > > > This set-up would be for conditions such as 'Moonduster' encountered in Tropical Storm season or in more exposed high-latitude anchorages such as Easter Is or the southern part of the Chilean channels , Falklands , S. Georgia etc. > > > > > > Of course the other option is to choose different seasons and destinations , but that kind of choice is not for everyone. > > > > > > And yes it was the snubbers that failed , his usual-sized anchor (Delta, I think) held just fine.And the whole system depended on the snubbers holding. > > > > > > Steve > > > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "GP" wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi Steve... thanks for that...helluva read. Appears the snubbers broke not his rode; not a failure of the anchor. Would our bow rollers have done better? (if the problem was at the bow rollers?)... > > > > > > > > Gary > > > > > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "steve" wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Here is a link to a good discussion on storm anchoring on the Sailing Anarchy forum. Only a bit of flaming. > > > > > > > > > > http://forums.sailinganarchy.com/index.php?showtopic=100772&st=0&start=0 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > | 21844|21812|2009-12-30 20:29:06|wild_explorer|Re: Buggering with the group|theboilerflue, I admit, I was WRONG to suggest to move this group to another host (at least at this time). Thanks to ALL for your input. So, I suggest now ONLY MIRRORING this group in Google group. But... --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "theboilerflue" wrote: > > > Whoa there Shane, take it easy you might end up ostracising the >poor guy, I'm not too concerned by the name or lack there of I >myself use an alias - it's what I use as a user name from time ot >time. This group is not my first group - I saw more flamed discussions. Responding to provocative offensive posts is just lowering yourself to someone level. I do not need to know someone real name - I see how person behave in forum. It is enough for me. > Wild, I think perhaps English is not your first language, (not that >your English is bad) your English is quite good but with some >grammatical errors from time to time, I think some of your comments >are taken a little too literally such as: "After making 3D model you >are experienced metal work technologist and boatbuilder" The sad part, nobody pays attention to emoticons ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_emoticons ) in the messages anymore. It does change the meaning. > I have no problem with someone setting up another mirror site, >especially if one were to weed through the posts and assemble nice >topic groupings of them. I can understand why you'd want this as >well cause I don't know how many of you members have tied out the >search option here on yahoo but it's not very good and is extremely >hard to find posts (even if you know they exist). And there is a lot >of good information on this forum, there is also a lot of not so >useful info so a nicely groomed assemblage would be nice. I know, this is "OFF-TOPIC" for this group, and I will not push it if nobody interested in better solution. At this time, I cannot even to put new Yahoo group's messages archive in a new group without cleaning originals! Because it will be THE paradise for spammers, if I simply put information provided by Yahoo in a new group (too technical to explain it here). > "3. otherwise, why don't you and Ben take your private little circle jerk offline, email each other directly, twist it into a knot and ram it up your nose." > - not bad advice. Ben you have tons of very useful info for this >group and I respect you for it but at times (and shane too) private >messages would work just fine (like #2) this IS about boats and boat >building People, people... I am reading about boat building, welding and many other things (in this group). I do not know much about it and I enjoying learning (thanks to all members). Why do not you listen other people who knows computer technology better than you? I will hate to see that day when somebody, who gave this group good advice, say "I told you so!" And how are we going to know what improvements to make without asking group members? I will set up special link in http://groups.google.com/group/origamiboats for further discussion for people who is interested. JUST, please, WRITE TO ME FROM MY PROFILE IN THIS (Yahoo) GROUP FIRST. Especially, if you do not have Google account. I DO NOT WANT TO DISCUSS IT HERE and bother group members - this group is about boat building. Happy NEW YEAR!!! | 21845|21722|2009-12-30 21:32:45|markh|Re: Storm anchoring or avoidance discussion|i may have mentioned this before but one round the world cruiser said that in 9 years they had never dragged an anchor because he used a 60 lb danforth anchor on his 32 foot boat. All the best in 2010, MarkH [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]| 21846|21812|2009-12-30 21:38:53|steve|Re: Copper Ferrules|Copper Nicopress sleeves have certainly long been used in quite small sailing craft for 1x7 ss rigging with a ss thimble of sufficient diameter. Two sleeves might improve the holding. I had this system on my home-built 17' catamaran for several years in the 1970's. The mast fittings failed , leading to dismasting, but the rigging ends were fine. It is cheap and can be done with a hand crimper on the boat. Corrosion/electrolysis did not seem to be a problem. I have also seen it used for lifeline wire. Steve --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "theboilerflue" wrote: > > yeah even north island ropes here seems to want press copper sleeves on their customers or if they didn't want copper than they'd try to press aluminium onto them, it took some discussion for them to put steel ones on for me. They had all sorts of bad ideas, I figured it was because they aren't used to a marine environment there and would have thought a boating store would know better, but i guess it insures that you keep coming back for more. looks like the voltage potential between copper and stainless is just under 0.4v. > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Paul Cotter wrote: > > > > I share your skepticism on the copper (for the reasons you outlined), > > but it seems to be what the sailboat rigging supply outfits (Ronstan, > > Bosun, etc.) I have found carry/sell. A few sites have specified > > copper ferrules over stainless wires on sailboats in marine > > environments. No one discourages ss ferrules, but they are not > > readily pressed with hand compression tools. I'll keep poking around. > > Paul > > > > > > > > On Dec 30, 2009, at 12:58 PM, theboilerflue wrote: > > > > > I don't know where it tells you to use copper on stainless but it > > > seems like a bad idea - they're dissimilar metals the only use for > > > that on a boat is in those little black boxes you have wired to > > > your distribution panel. If I had to use something other than more > > > stainless I'd go with painted mild or galv maybe. > > > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Paul Cotter > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Has anyone used copper ferrules on stainless shrouds. stays, etc? I > > > > have come across several references that copper should be used on > > > > stainless. I am rigging another small boat and hoping to use a > > > > handheld swaging tool to keep it economical, yet strong. I can break > > > > test a few samples locally. > > > > > > > > Also, I have had some difficulty finding a supplier in the states, > > > > although Mcmaster-Carr does carry them. The local supplier is asking > > > > $2.44/each for 3/16" ferrules (about 4x what McMaster-Carr is > > > > charging). Are there any other suppliers out there? > > > > > > > > Ronstan makes them, but I don't know about compatibilty between > > > > metric and nonmetric sizes. > > > > > > > > Any advice is much appreciated. > > > > > > > > Paul > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________________ > > > > > Ask a question on any topic and get answers from real people. > > > Go to > > > > > Yahoo! Answers and share what you know at http:// > > > ca.answers.yahoo.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > | 21847|21812|2009-12-30 23:45:43|Aaron Williams|Re: Buggering with the group|Thanks for understanding. --- On Wed, 12/30/09, wild_explorer wrote: From: wild_explorer Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Buggering with the group To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, December 30, 2009, 4:27 PM   theboilerflue, I admit, I was WRONG to suggest to move this group to another host (at least at this time). Thanks to ALL for your input. So, I suggest now ONLY MIRRORING this group in Google group. But... --- In origamiboats@ yahoogroups. com, "theboilerflue" wrote: > > > Whoa there Shane, take it easy you might end up ostracising the >poor guy, I'm not too concerned by the name or lack there of I >myself use an alias - it's what I use as a user name from time ot >time. This group is not my first group - I saw more flamed discussions. Responding to provocative offensive posts is just lowering yourself to someone level.. I do not need to know someone real name - I see how person behave in forum. It is enough for me. > Wild, I think perhaps English is not your first language, (not that >your English is bad) your English is quite good but with some >grammatical errors from time to time, I think some of your comments >are taken a little too literally such as: "After making 3D model you >are experienced metal work technologist and boatbuilder" The sad part, nobody pays attention to emoticons ( http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ List_of_emoticon s ) in the messages anymore. It does change the meaning. > I have no problem with someone setting up another mirror site, >especially if one were to weed through the posts and assemble nice >topic groupings of them. I can understand why you'd want this as >well cause I don't know how many of you members have tied out the >search option here on yahoo but it's not very good and is extremely >hard to find posts (even if you know they exist). And there is a lot >of good information on this forum, there is also a lot of not so >useful info so a nicely groomed assemblage would be nice. I know, this is "OFF-TOPIC" for this group, and I will not push it if nobody interested in better solution. At this time, I cannot even to put new Yahoo group's messages archive in a new group without cleaning originals! Because it will be THE paradise for spammers, if I simply put information provided by Yahoo in a new group (too technical to explain it here). > "3. otherwise, why don't you and Ben take your private little circle jerk offline, email each other directly, twist it into a knot and ram it up your nose." > - not bad advice. Ben you have tons of very useful info for this >group and I respect you for it but at times (and shane too) private >messages would work just fine (like #2) this IS about boats and boat >building People, people... I am reading about boat building, welding and many other things (in this group). I do not know much about it and I enjoying learning (thanks to all members). Why do not you listen other people who knows computer technology better than you? I will hate to see that day when somebody, who gave this group good advice, say "I told you so!" And how are we going to know what improvements to make without asking group members? I will set up special link in http://groups. google.com/ group/origamiboa ts for further discussion for people who is interested. JUST, please, WRITE TO ME FROM MY PROFILE IN THIS (Yahoo) GROUP FIRST. Especially, if you do not have Google account. I DO NOT WANT TO DISCUSS IT HERE and bother group members - this group is about boat building. Happy NEW YEAR!!! [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 21848|21837|2009-12-31 07:51:04|ahmed montaser|Re: Happy New Year.|www.harunyahya.comvery nice site [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]| 21849|21840|2009-12-31 12:27:05|SHANE ROTHWELL|Free Tarps|Brent is right abotu the tarps....but with one warning. I've been useing them for construction & using them lots, but the UV does get to them and they break down in about a year.....into a zillion little bits, so get a few spares and when they start to go, replace em quick or it's a hellofamess. __________________________________________________________________ The new Internet Explorer® 8 - Faster, safer, easier. Optimized for Yahoo! Get it Now for Free! at http://downloads.yahoo.com/ca/internetexplorer/| 21850|21850|2009-12-31 13:01:38|SHANE ROTHWELL|Buggering with the Group|Hi Haiden, Ahhhh, but mate, your name is right up front in all your postings and while you do use an "alias" your name is right there... and you are right into a very cool build with lots of pos input, when you made a mistake you admit it, as any decent guy would I have no objection to someone setting up another, what did you call it, a "shaddow" site either, it's the dictitorial attitude & the attemped 'ram the bullshit down the troat' bit that gets up my nose. Not too concerned about "you might end up ostracising the poor guy" if he hasn't got the balls to fess up.... In fact, if he's not got the jam to be honest on the most basic of levels, does he not deserve to be ostrasized? At the same time, everyone screws up. At the end of the day, it's an integrity thing, language might come into it if it's a one off, but this guy does it repeatedly. but the integrity thing is real basic & thats what I've not seen. Have you? In retrospect, the joke is probably on us eh..... This guy may be 14 years old and just takkng the piss out of (what is to him & his mates) a bunch of old farts - so Haiden, being the self proclaimed probabe youngest member on this site- I'd guess right- - do you figure you've ever been considered an old fart yet? So if the guy comes back with something of substance, fine, but untill then, I'm going to call him on the bullshit, just like the self proclaimed expert on women's anatomy & other assorted outright bullshit (((remember the 'editor in chief' don't you?, Oh ya, fill your boots eh!))) Had a good giggle & from the guys silence, he may have had enough. What do you think? Besides, your right, this is supposed to be about boats isn't it... Best of luck on the build lad. Shane P.S. Oh ya, "CLR" works a treat for removing rust from rusty chains. Posted by: "theboilerflue" haidan@... theboilerflue Wed Dec 30, 2009 1:47 pm (PST) Whoa there Shane, take it easy you might end up ostracising the poor guy, I'm not too concerned by the name or lack there of I myself use an alias - it's what I use as a user name from time ot time. real name: haidan. Wild, I think perhaps English is not your first language, (not that your English is bad) your English is quite good but with some grammatical errors from time to time, I think some of your comments are taken a little too literally such as: "After making 3D model you are experienced metal work technologist and boatbuilder" - I don't think that translates literally but rather that it gives one a good sense of how the metal fits together in a curved environment and how one makes round shapes from flat sheets of steel. Wild I myself think that you'd be better off if you just threw yourself into the building of the boat and learned from that, as a 3d graphical model can't bring you out sailing - which is your goal? to go sailing? as soon as possible? - maybe I'm projecting, that is my goal. I would however love to see a nice 3d model of my boat though and the (theoretical) performance calculations of it. So if that's what you want to do -go nuts. I have no problem with someone setting up another mirror site, especially if one were to weed through the posts and assemble nice topic groupings of them. I can understand why you'd want this as well cause I don't know how many of you members have tied out the search option here on yahoo but it's not very good and is extremely hard to find posts (even if you know they exist). And there is a lot of good information on this forum, there is also a lot of not so useful info so a nicely groomed assemblage would be nice. "3. otherwise, why don't you and Ben take your private little circle jerk offline, email each other directly, twist it into a knot and ram it up your nose." - not bad advice. Ben you have tons of very useful info for this group and I respect you for it but at times (and shane too) private messages would work just fine (like #2) this IS about boats and boat building And while were at it I'll introduce myself to the group for all you new arrivals. my name's Haidan, I bought a Brent Swain 36 from Alex Christie, the one built in his video by Brent come January 3rd it'll be two years since I have had the boat and have been working on it, I launched it off the dike road in Comox mid July this last summer and am now building the interior at a dock in Courtenay. I am probably the youngest member on the group at 25 and had some welding experience growing up on a farm as a kid but it was limited nor have I worked any particularly technical jobs that would give me some basis to boat building, I'm just figuring it out as I go which, has it's ups and downs but I'm in the water. haidan --- In origamiboats@ yahoogroups. com, SHANE ROTHWELL wrote: > > Gentlemen, > > I wasn't going to say anything, but obviously I'm not the only one..... > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- -- > Wild Wanker, > > Being considerably far past just being gauled by the bloody idocy & arogance of "wild explorer" (fer christ sake man, are you ashamed to use your own name?) with his comments of "ALL RESONABLE REQUESTS CONSIDERED" and "THIS SUBJECT IS OFF LIMITS TO THIS SITE" (aren't we just a tad dictatorial? ) as well as his comments of how woefully inadequate the set up is to his obviously bloody superior intelect... > > A couple of suggestions: > 1. how about using your name (wild explorer.... get bloody real!) > 2. how about silence on ANYTHING that does not directly concern boats? > 3. otherwise, why don't you and Ben take your private little circle jerk offline, email each other directly, twist it into a knot and ram it up your nose. > > But STOP BUGGERING with this site. There is way more spam on it than is needed and all you are doing is causing dammage. > > Some of us have an interest in actually LEARNING and SHARING INFOROMATION and have no interest in being dictated to, by you or anyone else. > > Hopefully this will provoke thought! > > see #2 above. I am sure that I'm not the only one who is sick of the bullshit. > > Shane Rothwell > > > __________________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Canada Toolbar: Search from anywhere on the web, and bookmark your favourite sites. Download it now http://ca.toolbar.yahoo.com | 21851|21850|2009-12-31 14:47:19|wild_explorer|Re: Buggering with the Group|Happy New Year to ALL! Shane, read the message # 21844 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/message/21844 to the LAST word in that message (not just first sentences), please. --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, SHANE ROTHWELL > Had a good giggle & from the guys silence, he may have had enough. What do you think? > | 21852|21722|2009-12-31 16:53:30|brentswain38|Re: Storm anchoring or avoidance discussion|Yes, as long as I am protected from big swells, and there is no current. I always lie with a drogue off the stern quarter in a gale at sea. It puts a fraction the load on the drogue and rudder. With it on the quarter, the pressure of wind on the rig takes the roll out, and it's as comfortable and safe as you are gonna get in rough conditions. --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "GP" wrote: > > Brent... do you mean that you would have anchored stern to the wind.. in that survival situation. In other words anchoring perhaps quartering from the stern to the wind? > > Gary > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "brentswain38" wrote: > > > > > > One way to eliminate chafe on lines is to run a bit of chain for the first couple of feet. This works well for drogues. > > In flat water, anchoring from the stern eliminates sailing on the hook, drastically reducing loads on the anchor and rode. The boat lays head downwind, like a dead duck and the only load is windage on your rig, transom and wheelhouse, a tiny fraction of the loads on a boat sailing on the hook, coming repeatedly beam on to the wind, and being fetched up and stopped repeatedly by her anchor. This was the main cause of the disaster in question. > > > > > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "brentswain38" wrote: > > > > > > The greater the distance between where the line crosses your bulwark , bow roller or whatever and the tie down point, the greater the chafe. This is because the bit of line between the chock or crossing point, and the tie down point stretches a bit , causing it to wear a bit on the crossing point. Steve's solution , making the cleat the point where it crosses the bulwark, almost totally eliminates chafe. Some go so far as to put the mooring bits directly on the bulwark, but I can't think of a way to make such an arrangement strong enough by tying it below decks, as I do with mooring bits. In extreme conditions I use the cleat for the starting point then take the rest onto the mooring bit. Taking only a few turns around the cleat, without cleating it off means far less movement at the chock or bulwark cap, but in extreme loads it will slip on the cleat , leaving the mooring bit to take the ultimate load. > > > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "steve" wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Gary , > > > > I have tended to attach my 1/2" 3-strand nylon snubber to the caprail cleat and then by rolling hitch or chain hook to the chain. It doesn't usually go through the roller on my boat. I also have one of those rubber dock-line snubber gizmos incorporated in the snubber ( a bonus find at an anchorage in the Gulf Islands one winter). > > > > This seems to work fine around BC even in strong winds , because we never have to use anchorages that have any significant exposure or fetch. Even in the Calif. Channel Islands or Mexico I have managed to avoid anchoring in significant wave action. > > > > > > > > The fellow on 'Moonduster' ended up in survival conditions , a calculated risk that didn't work out. > > > > > > > > Based on his experience and the discussion by others on that forum , I will add a second big, long snubber , perhaps of 3/4" polyester or polypropylene about 20 or 30' long shackled to a chain hook or plate (which would require a 2 part harness , I think). Paul on "Opus" described this. I wouldn't usually use this snubber. > > > > > > > > This set-up would be for conditions such as 'Moonduster' encountered in Tropical Storm season or in more exposed high-latitude anchorages such as Easter Is or the southern part of the Chilean channels , Falklands , S. Georgia etc. > > > > > > > > Of course the other option is to choose different seasons and destinations , but that kind of choice is not for everyone. > > > > > > > > And yes it was the snubbers that failed , his usual-sized anchor (Delta, I think) held just fine.And the whole system depended on the snubbers holding. > > > > > > > > Steve > > > > > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "GP" wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Hi Steve... thanks for that...helluva read. Appears the snubbers broke not his rode; not a failure of the anchor. Would our bow rollers have done better? (if the problem was at the bow rollers?)... > > > > > > > > > > Gary > > > > > > > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "steve" wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Here is a link to a good discussion on storm anchoring on the Sailing Anarchy forum. Only a bit of flaming. > > > > > > > > > > > > http://forums.sailinganarchy.com/index.php?showtopic=100772&st=0&start=0 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > | 21853|21722|2009-12-31 16:58:18|brentswain38|Re: Storm anchoring or avoidance discussion|I use a 55 lb delta on my 31 footer. It has occasionally dragged on soft coral sand as light as popcorn. I have swam down with a 5 /8th eye bolt and a hammer and pounded the eye bolt into a crack in the underlying coral then tied it to the anchor. When I leave a vertical pull pulls the bolt out of the crevice easily. With my anchor winch, I can't feel the difference between a 35 pounder and a 55 pounder, so it may as well be the 55 pounder. --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "markh" wrote: > > i may have mentioned this before but one round the world cruiser said that in 9 years they had never dragged an anchor because he used a 60 lb danforth anchor on his 32 foot boat. > All the best in 2010, MarkH > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > | 21854|21850|2009-12-31 17:00:28|brentswain38|Re: Buggering with the Group|Gonna spend new years eve hiding out . That way I don't get slobbered on by the fat ladies. --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "wild_explorer" wrote: > > Happy New Year to ALL! Shane, read the message # 21844 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/message/21844 to the LAST word in that message (not just first sentences), please. > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, SHANE ROTHWELL > > Had a good giggle & from the guys silence, he may have had enough. What do you think? > > > | 21855|21850|2009-12-31 20:30:39|arctichusky44|Re: Buggering with the Group|I could see someone possibly wanting to throw-up on you for a comment like that, otherwise stick with boat topics, not idiotic insults. Happy New Year! Frank --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "brentswain38" wrote: > > > Gonna spend new years eve hiding out . That way I don't get slobbered on by the fat ladies. > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "wild_explorer" wrote: > > > > Happy New Year to ALL! Shane, read the message # 21844 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/message/21844 to the LAST word in that message (not just first sentences), please. > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, SHANE ROTHWELL > > > Had a good giggle & from the guys silence, he may have had enough. What do you think? > > > > > > | 21856|21850|2010-01-01 06:08:48|theboilerflue|Re: Buggering with the chain|I sorta wonder if it does any good trying to take that rust of the chain, I'm certainly am NOT worried about the looks about deck or just on the chain, so with that out of the question do you think de-rusting and zinc painting would serve any purpose? I kinda think paint would just chip of pretty quick anyone done this? and re-galvanising is not really feasible. I am not doubting the strength of the stuff just would like it to be kept all in one piece rather than slowly rusting away. --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, SHANE ROTHWELL wrote: > > Hi Haiden, > > Ahhhh, but mate, your name is right up front in all your postings and while you do use an "alias" your name is right there... and you are right into a very cool build with lots of pos input, when you made a mistake you admit it, as any decent guy would > > I have no objection to someone setting up another, what did you call it, a "shaddow" site either, it's the dictitorial attitude & the attemped 'ram the bullshit down the troat' bit that gets up my nose. > > Not too concerned about "you might end up ostracising the poor guy" if he hasn't got the balls to fess up.... In fact, if he's not got the jam to be honest on the most basic of levels, does he not deserve to be ostrasized? > > At the same time, everyone screws up. At the end of the day, it's an integrity thing, language might come into it if it's a one off, but this guy does it repeatedly. but the integrity thing is real basic & thats what I've not seen. Have you? > > In retrospect, the joke is probably on us eh..... This guy may be 14 years old and just takkng the piss out of (what is to him & his mates) a bunch of old farts - so Haiden, being the self proclaimed probabe youngest member on this site- I'd guess right- - do you figure you've ever been considered an old fart yet? > > So if the guy comes back with something of substance, fine, but untill then, I'm going to call him on the bullshit, just like the self proclaimed expert on women's anatomy & other assorted outright bullshit (((remember the 'editor in chief' don't you?, Oh ya, fill your boots eh!))) > > Had a good giggle & from the guys silence, he may have had enough. What do you think? > > Besides, your right, this is supposed to be about boats isn't it... > > Best of luck on the build lad. > > Shane > > > P.S. Oh ya, "CLR" works a treat for removing rust from rusty chains. > > > > > > Posted by: "theboilerflue" haidan@... theboilerflue > Wed Dec 30, 2009 1:47 pm (PST) > > > > Whoa there Shane, take it easy you might end up ostracising the poor guy, I'm not too concerned by the name or lack there of I myself use an alias - it's what I use as a user name from time ot time. real name: haidan. > > Wild, I think perhaps English is not your first language, (not that your English is bad) your English is quite good but with some grammatical errors from time to time, I think some of your comments are taken a little too literally such as: "After making 3D model you are experienced metal work technologist and boatbuilder" - I don't think that translates literally but rather that it gives one a good sense of how the metal fits together in a curved environment and how one makes round shapes from flat sheets of steel. Wild I myself think that you'd be better off if you just threw yourself into the building of the boat and learned from that, as a 3d graphical model can't bring you out sailing - which is your goal? to go sailing? as soon as possible? - maybe I'm projecting, that is my goal. I would however love to see a nice 3d model of my boat though and the (theoretical) performance calculations of it. So if that's what you want to do -go nuts. > > I have no problem with someone setting up another mirror site, especially if one were to weed through the posts and assemble nice topic groupings of them. I can understand why you'd want this as well cause I don't know how many of you members have tied out the search option here on yahoo but it's not very good and is extremely hard to find posts (even if you know they exist). And there is a lot of good information on this forum, there is also a lot of not so useful info so a nicely groomed assemblage would be nice. > > "3. otherwise, why don't you and Ben take your private little circle jerk offline, email each other directly, twist it into a knot and ram it up your nose." > - not bad advice. Ben you have tons of very useful info for this group and I respect you for it but at times (and shane too) private messages would work just fine (like #2) this IS about boats and boat building > > And while were at it I'll introduce myself to the group for all you new arrivals. my name's Haidan, I bought a Brent Swain 36 from Alex Christie, the one built in his video by Brent come January 3rd it'll be two years since I have had the boat and have been working on it, I launched it off the dike road in Comox mid July this last summer and am now building the interior at a dock in Courtenay. I am probably the youngest member on the group at 25 and had some welding experience growing up on a farm as a kid but it was limited nor have I worked any particularly technical jobs that would give me some basis to boat building, I'm just figuring it out as I go which, has it's ups and downs but I'm in the water. > haidan > > --- In origamiboats@ yahoogroups. com, SHANE ROTHWELL wrote: > > > > Gentlemen, > > > > I wasn't going to say anything, but obviously I'm not the only one..... > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- -- > > Wild Wanker, > > > > Being considerably far past just being gauled by the bloody idocy & arogance of "wild explorer" (fer christ sake man, are you ashamed to use your own name?) with his comments of "ALL RESONABLE REQUESTS CONSIDERED" and "THIS SUBJECT IS OFF LIMITS TO THIS SITE" (aren't we just a tad dictatorial? ) as well as his comments of how woefully inadequate the set up is to his obviously bloody superior intelect... > > > > A couple of suggestions: > > 1. how about using your name (wild explorer.... get bloody real!) > > 2. how about silence on ANYTHING that does not directly concern boats? > > 3. otherwise, why don't you and Ben take your private little circle jerk offline, email each other directly, twist it into a knot and ram it up your nose. > > > > But STOP BUGGERING with this site. There is way more spam on it than is needed and all you are doing is causing dammage. > > > > Some of us have an interest in actually LEARNING and SHARING INFOROMATION and have no interest in being dictated to, by you or anyone else. > > > > Hopefully this will provoke thought! > > > > see #2 above. I am sure that I'm not the only one who is sick of the bullshit. > > > > Shane Rothwell > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________________________ > Yahoo! Canada Toolbar: Search from anywhere on the web, and bookmark your favourite sites. Download it now > http://ca.toolbar.yahoo.com > | 21857|21850|2010-01-01 13:05:36|SHANE ROTHWELL|Buggering with the Group|Brent, Sounds a good plan. I've heard it can get real ugly if you encourage a fat lady and get her slobbering.....and more. Just the thought perterbs. And a Happy New year to all! Shane Posted by: "brentswain38" brentswain38@... brentswain38 Thu Dec 31, 2009 2:00 pm (PST) Gonna spend new years eve hiding out . That way I don't get slobbered on by the fat ladies. __________________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Canada Toolbar: Search from anywhere on the web, and bookmark your favourite sites. Download it now http://ca.toolbar.yahoo.com| 21858|21850|2010-01-01 13:28:11|SHANE ROTHWELL|Buggering with the Group|Frank, What an immagination! Wouldn't that be assault? Or is it as survival thing up in the arctic? Happy New year! Shane Posted by: "arctichusky44" arctichusky44@... arctichusky44 Thu Dec 31, 2009 5:30 pm (PST) I could see someone possibly wanting to throw-up on you for a comment like that, otherwise stick with boat topics, not idiotic insults. Happy New Year! Frank --- In origamiboats@ yahoogroups. com, "brentswain38" wrote: > > > Gonna spend new years eve hiding out . That way I don't get slobbered on by the fat ladies. > __________________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Canada Toolbar: Search from anywhere on the web, and bookmark your favourite sites. Download it now http://ca.toolbar.yahoo.com | 21859|21850|2010-01-01 13:34:48|SHANE ROTHWELL|Buggering with the Group|Which explains exactly what? The only thing I can agree with you on is Happy New Year as you still haven't displayed the/any integrity to answer even the most basic of questions, but still appear to want to dictate. Pathetic Maybe I was wrong....maybe he hasn't had enough... --- In origamiboats@ yahoogroups. com, "wild_explorer" wrote: > > Happy New Year to ALL! Shane, read the message # 21844 http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/origamiboa ts/message/ 21844 to the LAST word in that message (not just first sentences), please. > > --- In origamiboats@ yahoogroups. com, SHANE ROTHWELL > > Had a good giggle & from the guys silence, he may have had enough. What do you think? > > __________________________________________________________________ Looking for the perfect gift? Give the gift of Flickr! http://www.flickr.com/gift/ | 21860|21850|2010-01-01 14:10:41|heretic_37ft|Re: Buggering with the Group|Brent, I distain New Year's Day too, such an arbitrary redundant point in time. Another political plot to brainwash the subservient morons amongst us. "Be cool stay in school" Ha Ha! I'll be sailing may BS 37 this week in warm tropical waters with a rifle and a fishing pole. Thank you for the best boat there is! --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "arctichusky44" wrote: > > I could see someone possibly wanting to throw-up on you for a comment like that, otherwise stick with boat topics, not idiotic insults. > Happy New Year! Frank > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "brentswain38" wrote: > > > > > > Gonna spend new years eve hiding out . That way I don't get slobbered on by the fat ladies. > > > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "wild_explorer" wrote: > > > > > > Happy New Year to ALL! Shane, read the message # 21844 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/message/21844 to the LAST word in that message (not just first sentences), please. > > > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, SHANE ROTHWELL > > > > Had a good giggle & from the guys silence, he may have had enough. What do you think? > > > > > > > > > > | 21861|21861|2010-01-01 17:57:18|jonathanswef|Anchor Well Ventilator|Brent, You mention in your book an anchor well ventilator; a sectional drawing in the book shows a piece of 6 inch pipe going straight into the boat interior. Did I understand that right? What keeps the water out? Many thanks, Jonathan.| 21862|21862|2010-01-01 18:03:38|jonathanswef|Common Screw Ups|Brent, you did a series of posts on common screw ups, which I found most useful. One which hurt when reading was that some weld the decks to hull both underneath and on top, when you only need to weld the top; I read that, having just finished welding the decks... yes, both top and bottom! If anyone were to catalogue the messages, pulling out these ones might be a good place to start; anyone working their way through all the past messages to get the combined experience and wisdom of the board members would benifit from starting with the screw ups series. If you've thought of any more, Brent, please do share them with us. Jonathan.| 21863|21850|2010-01-01 20:59:17|steve|Buggering with the chain|Haidan , I had 200' of chain re-galvanised in NZ 22 yrs ago. It was economically reasonable there and then. The chain was not as rusty as the chain you got from me. I can't remember how exactly they cleaned it up before re-galvanising. I can't imagine paint helping a lot unless you didn't use the chain at all for anchoring , just decorate the foredeck with it. Then you could use your favorite colour, too. The ironic thing about having the rusty chain causing staining of the deck is that everyone thinks you have a steel boat , even though it's nothing to do with that. I imagine that you don't care deeply about this issue. Steve --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "theboilerflue" wrote: > > I sorta wonder if it does any good trying to take that rust of the chain, I'm certainly am NOT worried about the looks about deck or just on the chain, so with that out of the question do you think de-rusting and zinc painting would serve any purpose? I kinda think paint would just chip of pretty quick anyone done this? and re-galvanising is not really feasible. I am not doubting the strength of the stuff just would like it to be kept all in one piece rather than slowly rusting away. | 21864|21850|2010-01-01 21:10:29|Gary H. Lucas|Re: Buggering with the chain|When they hot dip galvanize the first step is to dip it in hot caustic. That strips off all the organics, bi-fouling, oil and grease. Then they dip it hot acid. The acid removes scale and rust. Then it's into the kettle of hot zinc at around 800 degrees. My anchor was badly rusted when I bought my boat and I work with a vendor that sends out a lot of galvanizing for us. I beat the hell out of it with a claw hammer, then a grinder and a wire wheel. I dropped it off at there shop and it was done for free, it came out quite well. Probably good for another 25 years! Gary H. Lucas ----- Original Message ----- From: "steve" To: Sent: Friday, January 01, 2010 8:57 PM Subject: [origamiboats] Buggering with the chain Haidan , I had 200' of chain re-galvanised in NZ 22 yrs ago. It was economically reasonable there and then. The chain was not as rusty as the chain you got from me. I can't remember how exactly they cleaned it up before re-galvanising. I can't imagine paint helping a lot unless you didn't use the chain at all for anchoring , just decorate the foredeck with it. Then you could use your favorite colour, too. The ironic thing about having the rusty chain causing staining of the deck is that everyone thinks you have a steel boat , even though it's nothing to do with that. I imagine that you don't care deeply about this issue. Steve --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "theboilerflue" wrote: > > I sorta wonder if it does any good trying to take that rust of the chain, > I'm certainly am NOT worried about the looks about deck or just on the > chain, so with that out of the question do you think de-rusting and zinc > painting would serve any purpose? I kinda think paint would just chip of > pretty quick anyone done this? and re-galvanising is not really feasible. > I am not doubting the strength of the stuff just would like it to be kept > all in one piece rather than slowly rusting away. | 21865|21850|2010-01-01 21:15:38|Doug Jackson|Re: Buggering with the chain|Hey Gary I've talked to the galvanizing place down the street from me about galvanizing chain and they don't know how they would keep the links from sticking to each other when they pulled them from the tank. How is that done? Doug "I began life as a bad boy." --Simon Lake, father of the modern submarine Join "Bad Boy Submarines" at ArgonautJr.com ________________________________ From: Gary H. Lucas To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, January 1, 2010 8:10:17 PM Subject: Re: [origamiboats] Buggering with the chain When they hot dip galvanize the first step is to dip it in hot caustic. That strips off all the organics, bi-fouling, oil and grease. Then they dip it hot acid. The acid removes scale and rust. Then it's into the kettle of hot zinc at around 800 degrees. My anchor was badly rusted when I bought my boat and I work with a vendor that sends out a lot of galvanizing for us. I beat the hell out of it with a claw hammer, then a grinder and a wire wheel. I dropped it off at there shop and it was done for free, it came out quite well. Probably good for another 25 years! Gary H. Lucas ----- Original Message ----- From: "steve" To: Sent: Friday, January 01, 2010 8:57 PM Subject: [origamiboats] Buggering with the chain Haidan , I had 200' of chain re-galvanised in NZ 22 yrs ago. It was economically reasonable there and then. The chain was not as rusty as the chain you got from me. I can't remember how exactly they cleaned it up before re-galvanising. I can't imagine paint helping a lot unless you didn't use the chain at all for anchoring , just decorate the foredeck with it. Then you could use your favorite colour, too. The ironic thing about having the rusty chain causing staining of the deck is that everyone thinks you have a steel boat , even though it's nothing to do with that. I imagine that you don't care deeply about this issue. Steve --- In origamiboats@ yahoogroups. com, "theboilerflue" wrote: > > I sorta wonder if it does any good trying to take that rust of the chain, > I'm certainly am NOT worried about the looks about deck or just on the > chain, so with that out of the question do you think de-rusting and zinc > painting would serve any purpose? I kinda think paint would just chip of > pretty quick anyone done this? and re-galvanising is not really feasible. > I am not doubting the strength of the stuff just would like it to be kept > all in one piece rather than slowly rusting away. | 21866|21850|2010-01-01 21:26:12|Gary H. Lucas|Re: Buggering with the chain|Doug, Things like chain are called wire work, because they tie the parts together with thick steel wire to dip them. The tanks are usually 6 to 8 feet deep. I think I'd wire up the chain my self to a bar with holes punched in it a few inches apart. Weld on a center loop to hook onto their hoist. Then make loops about 6 feet long. When wire work comes out of the kettle they usually smack it with a bar to shake off the molten globs that form everywhere two pieces touch. By wiring it up to a bar with holes yourself you are likely to get a better job than if they do it, that's real labor intensive. At one point I was getting small parts galvanized by Victualic. They had a galvanizing plant here in NJ that was the best I ever dealt with. It had a chain conveyor system with built in hooks so they did no wire work. Parts didn't touch others so the galvinizing was really clean. Gary H. Lucas ----- Original Message ----- From: "Doug Jackson" To: Sent: Friday, January 01, 2010 9:15 PM Subject: Re: [origamiboats] Buggering with the chain Hey Gary I've talked to the galvanizing place down the street from me about galvanizing chain and they don't know how they would keep the links from sticking to each other when they pulled them from the tank. How is that done? Doug "I began life as a bad boy." --Simon Lake, father of the modern submarine Join "Bad Boy Submarines" at ArgonautJr.com ________________________________ From: Gary H. Lucas To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, January 1, 2010 8:10:17 PM Subject: Re: [origamiboats] Buggering with the chain When they hot dip galvanize the first step is to dip it in hot caustic. That strips off all the organics, bi-fouling, oil and grease. Then they dip it hot acid. The acid removes scale and rust. Then it's into the kettle of hot zinc at around 800 degrees. My anchor was badly rusted when I bought my boat and I work with a vendor that sends out a lot of galvanizing for us. I beat the hell out of it with a claw hammer, then a grinder and a wire wheel. I dropped it off at there shop and it was done for free, it came out quite well. Probably good for another 25 years! Gary H. Lucas ----- Original Message ----- From: "steve" To: Sent: Friday, January 01, 2010 8:57 PM Subject: [origamiboats] Buggering with the chain Haidan , I had 200' of chain re-galvanised in NZ 22 yrs ago. It was economically reasonable there and then. The chain was not as rusty as the chain you got from me. I can't remember how exactly they cleaned it up before re-galvanising. I can't imagine paint helping a lot unless you didn't use the chain at all for anchoring , just decorate the foredeck with it. Then you could use your favorite colour, too. The ironic thing about having the rusty chain causing staining of the deck is that everyone thinks you have a steel boat , even though it's nothing to do with that. I imagine that you don't care deeply about this issue. Steve --- In origamiboats@ yahoogroups. com, "theboilerflue" wrote: > > I sorta wonder if it does any good trying to take that rust of the chain, > I'm certainly am NOT worried about the looks about deck or just on the > chain, so with that out of the question do you think de-rusting and zinc > painting would serve any purpose? I kinda think paint would just chip of > pretty quick anyone done this? and re-galvanising is not really feasible. > I am not doubting the strength of the stuff just would like it to be kept > all in one piece rather than slowly rusting away. | 21867|21867|2010-01-02 00:11:56|wild_explorer|How to improve (Origamiboats) group goes Live - please give your inp|To ALL Yahoo Origamiboats group members. I set up the group for mirroring Yahoo Origamiboats group http://groups.google.com/group/origamiboats Please take a look at the main page and "Improvement" discussion (use link on main page or go directly to http://groups.google.com/group/origamiboats-improve ). The main Google Origamiboats group WILL NOT accept any members at this time (and more likely in near future ether). It would be administrated by manager (me at this time) and main goal of this group would be to backup Yahoo Origamiboats group discussions. I will try to organize it, but it is HUGE amount of work. I do it on my spare time - it will take a while (be easy on me). I am trying to contribute something to Yahoo Origamiboats group for all knowledge I am learning here. You can check what interface, search functions offers Google "Improvement" discussion group. NO MEMBERSHIP required. However, non-Google users please read instructions at the end of this message. "Improvement" discussion group is about What You Want to See in GOOGLE/Yahoo Origamiboats group and how to organize it better. Go to http://groups.google.com/group/origamiboats-improve This group does NOT require membership, but it is moderated. This means you can post your message, but it will not appear in the group's messages until I read it and post it there (more likely ones a day). There are several reasons for this now: - Keep it spam free - Please remember, Google group IS THE EXTENSION of Yahoo group - not competitor. - Be polite. Respect Yahoo group members. Do not badmouth Yahoo Origamiboats members - have guts to do it in Yahoo group. - Negative comments is OK, just do not use foul language. - Please, do not send messages like "Test" - give some useful input (what information do you want to see or what changes are necessary) Yahoo Group Members! If someone has ALL previous archive (digest, separate messages) of Yahoo Origamiboats group up to Jan 1 2010, please send it to yahooorigamiboats@... I will try to do my best to organize it. ATTENTION of Yahoo group members who does not have Google account: ***** You can send your comments from your non-Google e-mail by writing e-mail To: origamiboats-improve@... With the Subject: Yahoo_Origamiboats_group_members_comments Please, copy/paste it to the Subject line (to keep it in the same thread). It will help to test searching function too for this thread. Write your comments/suggestions ****** CAUTION: Please note, extended view of the message WILL NOT show your FULL e-mail address in the message (but good part of it). However, it WILL show your Nickname/First_Last_name. The part of your e-mail address and Nickname/Name WILL NOT be visible in short view of the message. ATTENTION to MEMBERS WHO POSTED PICTURES in Yahoo Origamiboats pictures/file section. WOULD YOU BE SO KIND to GIVE ME PERMISSIONS TO POST YOUR BOAT's PICTURES in Google group? Please, e-mail me from my member's link (top right corner of this message) which one you allow to post in Google group. Thanks to ALL!| 21868|21867|2010-01-02 00:45:01|q243w5|Re: How to improve (Origamiboats) group goes Live - please give your|the question is why bother with any of this and why conjest this group's messages with usless dribble. Start your own gooogle group if you like but lay off here. robin --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "wild_explorer" wrote: > > To ALL Yahoo Origamiboats group members. I set up the group for mirroring Yahoo Origamiboats group http://groups.google.com/group/origamiboats > Please take a look at the main page and "Improvement" discussion (use link on main page or go directly to http://groups.google.com/group/origamiboats-improve ). > > The main Google Origamiboats group WILL NOT accept any members at this time (and more likely in near future ether). It would be administrated by manager (me at this time) and main goal of this group would be to backup Yahoo Origamiboats group discussions. I will try to organize it, but it is HUGE amount of work. I do it on my spare time - it will take a while (be easy on me). I am trying to contribute something to Yahoo Origamiboats group for all knowledge I am learning here. > > You can check what interface, search functions offers Google "Improvement" discussion group. NO MEMBERSHIP required. However, non-Google users please read instructions at the end of this message. > > "Improvement" discussion group is about What You Want to See in GOOGLE/Yahoo Origamiboats group and how to organize it better. Go to http://groups.google.com/group/origamiboats-improve This group does NOT require membership, but it is moderated. This means you can post your message, but it will not appear in the group's messages until I read it and post it there (more likely ones a day). > > There are several reasons for this now: > - Keep it spam free > - Please remember, Google group IS THE EXTENSION of Yahoo group - not competitor. > - Be polite. Respect Yahoo group members. Do not badmouth Yahoo Origamiboats members - have guts to do it in Yahoo group. > - Negative comments is OK, just do not use foul language. > - Please, do not send messages like "Test" - give some useful input (what information do you want to see or what changes are necessary) > > Yahoo Group Members! If someone has ALL previous archive (digest, separate messages) of Yahoo Origamiboats group up to Jan 1 2010, please send it to yahooorigamiboats@... I will try to do my best to organize it. > > ATTENTION of Yahoo group members who does not have Google account: > ***** > You can send your comments from your non-Google e-mail by writing e-mail > > To: > origamiboats-improve@... > > With the Subject: > Yahoo_Origamiboats_group_members_comments > > Please, copy/paste it to the Subject line (to keep it in the same thread). It will help to test searching function too for this thread. > > Write your comments/suggestions > > ****** > > CAUTION: > Please note, extended view of the message WILL NOT show your FULL e-mail address in the message (but good part of it). However, it WILL show your Nickname/First_Last_name. > The part of your e-mail address and Nickname/Name WILL NOT be visible in short view of the message. > > ATTENTION to MEMBERS WHO POSTED PICTURES in Yahoo Origamiboats pictures/file section. WOULD YOU BE SO KIND to GIVE ME PERMISSIONS TO POST YOUR BOAT's PICTURES in Google group? Please, e-mail me from my member's link (top right corner of this message) which one you allow to post in Google group. > > Thanks to ALL! > | 21869|21867|2010-01-02 02:08:12|gschnell@shaw.ca|Re: How to improve (Origamiboats) group goes Live -please give your |This is nothing short of theft. I can't believe this guy is even allowed access to the site. Bar him. Gord Sent wirelessly from my BlackBerry device on the Bell network. Envoy� sans fil par mon terminal mobile BlackBerry sur le r�seau de Bell. -----Original Message----- From: q243w5 Date: Sat, 02 Jan 2010 05:44:58 To: Subject: [origamiboats] Re: How to improve (Origamiboats) group goes Live - please give your input the question is why bother with any of this and why conjest this group's messages with usless dribble. Start your own gooogle group if you like but lay off here. robin --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "wild_explorer" wrote: > > To ALL Yahoo Origamiboats group members. I set up the group for mirroring Yahoo Origamiboats group http://groups.google.com/group/origamiboats > Please take a look at the main page and "Improvement" discussion (use link on main page or go directly to http://groups.google.com/group/origamiboats-improve ). > > The main Google Origamiboats group WILL NOT accept any members at this time (and more likely in near future ether). It would be administrated by manager (me at this time) and main goal of this group would be to backup Yahoo Origamiboats group discussions. I will try to organize it, but it is HUGE amount of work. I do it on my spare time - it will take a while (be easy on me). I am trying to contribute something to Yahoo Origamiboats group for all knowledge I am learning here. > > You can check what interface, search functions offers Google "Improvement" discussion group. NO MEMBERSHIP required. However, non-Google users please read instructions at the end of this message. > > "Improvement" discussion group is about What You Want to See in GOOGLE/Yahoo Origamiboats group and how to organize it better. Go to http://groups.google.com/group/origamiboats-improve This group does NOT require membership, but it is moderated. This means you can post your message, but it will not appear in the group's messages until I read it and post it there (more likely ones a day). > > There are several reasons for this now: > - Keep it spam free > - Please remember, Google group IS THE EXTENSION of Yahoo group - not competitor. > - Be polite. Respect Yahoo group members. Do not badmouth Yahoo Origamiboats members - have guts to do it in Yahoo group. > - Negative comments is OK, just do not use foul language. > - Please, do not send messages like "Test" - give some useful input (what information do you want to see or what changes are necessary) > > Yahoo Group Members! If someone has ALL previous archive (digest, separate messages) of Yahoo Origamiboats group up to Jan 1 2010, please send it to yahooorigamiboats@... I will try to do my best to organize it. > > ATTENTION of Yahoo group members who does not have Google account: > ***** > You can send your comments from your non-Google e-mail by writing e-mail > > To: > origamiboats-improve@... > > With the Subject: > Yahoo_Origamiboats_group_members_comments > > Please, copy/paste it to the Subject line (to keep it in the same thread). It will help to test searching function too for this thread. > > Write your comments/suggestions > > ****** > > CAUTION: > Please note, extended view of the message WILL NOT show your FULL e-mail address in the message (but good part of it). However, it WILL show your Nickname/First_Last_name. > The part of your e-mail address and Nickname/Name WILL NOT be visible in short view of the message. > > ATTENTION to MEMBERS WHO POSTED PICTURES in Yahoo Origamiboats pictures/file section. WOULD YOU BE SO KIND to GIVE ME PERMISSIONS TO POST YOUR BOAT's PICTURES in Google group? Please, e-mail me from my member's link (top right corner of this message) which one you allow to post in Google group. > > Thanks to ALL! > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 21870|21870|2010-01-02 03:12:50|wild_explorer|BS36 1985 "Silver Moon" for sale in WA|I was searching WEB for Brent's boats and found this one for sale in WA http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listing/boatFullDetails.jsp?boat_id=2101280&ybw=&units=Feet¤cy=USD&access=Public&listing_id=64229&url= Has specs and pictures.| 21871|21850|2010-01-02 09:58:44|sae140|Re: Buggering with the chain|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Doug Jackson wrote: > > Hey Gary > > I've talked to the galvanizing place down the street from me about galvanizing chain and they don't know how they would keep the links from sticking to each other when they pulled them from the tank. How is that done? > I've heard say that they use a thing called a 'spinner' when galvanising chain. But exactly what a spinner is and how it works, couldn't say. Colin| 21872|21867|2010-01-02 10:03:39|sae140|Re: How to improve (Origamiboats) group goes Live -please give your |--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, gschnell@... wrote: > > This is nothing short of theft. I can't believe this guy is even allowed access to the site. Bar him. Gord Is pulling posts off one site (without anyone's consent) and posting them elsewhere legitimate ? I agree that pinching stuff like this from a commercial site would be considered theft. Are we any different ? I, for one, am not happy about this ... Colin| 21873|21867|2010-01-02 10:43:50|Tom Mann|Re: How to improve (Origamiboats) group goes Live -please give your |Thats probably a big legal gray area there. Whatever happened to the guy that hosted a surchable arcives on his daughters PC ? That one worked slick and you had to be a member of this group to access it Tom On Sat, Jan 2, 2010 at 7:02 AM, sae140 wrote: > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, gschnell@... wrote: > > > > This is nothing short of theft. I can't believe this guy is even allowed > access to the site. Bar him. Gord > > Is pulling posts off one site (without anyone's consent) and posting them > elsewhere legitimate ? I agree that pinching stuff like this from a > commercial site would be considered theft. Are we any different ? > > I, for one, am not happy about this ... > > Colin > > > > ------------------------------------ > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.comYahoo! Groups Links > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 21874|21867|2010-01-02 11:26:53|David Frantz|Re: How to improve (Origamiboats) group goes Live -please give your |Your concern is valid but there are several things to consider that has me leaning towards this being a positive. First is backing up is always a good thing. Services like Yahoo Groups have been known to disappear overnight. Now people may argue that Yahoo is to big for that to happen without warning to which my response is you never know. Also data loss in a datacenter is not unheard of, even as recent as last year Microsoft/Danger lost all user data on one of their systems. Unfortunately that was not the only loss of data last year. That is one element. A second consideration is that the method of access can result in copies stored else where. For example I do all my access via E-Mail and have my client sort out the Origami from all the other crap that comes through the various E-Mail services I use. So on my Mac there should be a history of all posts since I got the Mac. As a side note I highly reccomend this because it bypasses Yahoos or Googles poor search functions. In anyevent the data is being replicated on client machines anyways though I doubt anybody has the whole history of the site. On top of all of that you have various caching systems, web spiders and everything else on the net storing or caching data. So while I don't like the approach taken here, I do see value in all the postings on the forum and believe that having a backup is a good thing. Is this action ligitimate? That is a very good question and must say I'm not a lawyer. My belief is that there is an implied copyright for each post a user makes. However I don't see an example of any economic harm being done so I'm not sure what recourses are available. In any event it does bring up an interesting question which is: what happens when Yahoo crashes hard and all this material vanishes? Yeah I know it is unlikely and if something did happen we are not likely to loose everything but imagine if it did happen. Could we find the author or owner of every file loss to rebuild the site? So is the approach being taken here right or wrong, I don't know, but have to say if MicroSoft can loose all user data so fan anybody else. I know from user space trying to backup all of a Yahoo group is not easy. I've never managed a Group so I'm not sure if the owners or moderators have better access that would allow running a backup script. If not we rely totally on Yahoo not to screw up. As a side note I suspect the manual mirroring of the site will get old real fast. As the instigator noted it is a lot of work. It is notably less work than running a full blow web site though. One more note: I often run "wget" to grab a web site or part of one to have a local copy. Once you learn it's use it is a great way to get copies of tutorials and HTML manuals that are online. I've done this for sqlite and other open source programs and it seems to be accepted usage. While I've never tried it I don't think it would work well against Yahoo Groups. Atleast not from what I've seen as a common member. David A Frantz websterindustro@... Sent from my iPhone. P.S. I do hole we can get back to posts about boats. I gives me hope that I will have one before I kick the bucket. DF On Jan 2, 2010, at 10:02 AM, sae140 wrote: > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, gschnell@... wrote: >> >> This is nothing short of theft. I can't believe this guy is even >> allowed access to the site. Bar him. Gord > > Is pulling posts off one site (without anyone's consent) and posting > them elsewhere legitimate ? I agree that pinching stuff like this > from a commercial site would be considered theft. Are we any > different ? > > I, for one, am not happy about this ... > > Colin > > > > ------------------------------------ > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.comYahoo > ! Groups Links > > > | 21875|21867|2010-01-02 11:57:27|wild_explorer|Re: How to improve (Origamiboats) group goes Live -please give your |To Gord and ALL. Folks, if you want to beat me up - do it in the group I gave you link for in message #21867 ( http://groups.google.com/group/origamiboats-improve )? I will be glad to answer ALL your questions. About stealing. What exactly did I steal? I put FIRST LINK on a main page to Yahoo Origamiboats group there. I did NOT put ANY copyrighted information (pictures/files) accessible only by Yahoo group members there. Not because of legal, but moral reasons. I put PART of old archive there, but ALL messages of this group are accessible without membership. Is not this group about promoting Origami boat building method? Will it do any harm to have extra promotion? If you did not notice, when you type Origamiboats in Google search, it gives a link to Yahoo group FIRST. Alex did not reply on my e-mail. So, I did ask permissions from pictures/files owners. I will try to e-mail Alex ones more. Ones again, please, ask ALL your questions in http://groups.google.com/group/origamiboats-improve Who is interested can read it there and not bother members of this group with non-boat-related postings. Thanks to ALL members. --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, gschnell@... wrote: > > This is nothing short of theft. I can't believe this guy is even allowed access to the site. Bar him. Gord | 21876|21867|2010-01-02 12:09:17|jhwaalkes|Re: How to improve (Origamiboats) group goes Live -please give your |Having lurked for several years I am getting closer to building a "brent boat" Trying to search prior messages is frustrating at best. If someone is trying to simpify this process, more power to him. I cannot understand the flaming of what appears to be a offer of help? Why immediatly jump to conclusions of theft? or other evil thoughts, may the glass always be 1/2 full. John --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, gschnell@... wrote: > > This is nothing short of theft. I can't believe this guy is even allowed access to the site. Bar him. Gord > Sent wirelessly from my BlackBerry device on the Bell network. > Envoyé sans fil par mon terminal mobile BlackBerry sur le réseau de Bell. > > -----Original Message----- > From: q243w5 > Date: Sat, 02 Jan 2010 05:44:58 > To: > Subject: [origamiboats] Re: How to improve (Origamiboats) group goes Live - > please give your input > > the question is why bother with any of this and why conjest this group's messages with usless dribble. Start your own gooogle group if you like but lay off here. robin > > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "wild_explorer" wrote: > > > > To ALL Yahoo Origamiboats group members. I set up the group for mirroring Yahoo Origamiboats group http://groups.google.com/group/origamiboats > > Please take a look at the main page and "Improvement" discussion (use link on main page or go directly to http://groups.google.com/group/origamiboats-improve ). > > > > The main Google Origamiboats group WILL NOT accept any members at this time (and more likely in near future ether). It would be administrated by manager (me at this time) and main goal of this group would be to backup Yahoo Origamiboats group discussions. I will try to organize it, but it is HUGE amount of work. I do it on my spare time - it will take a while (be easy on me). I am trying to contribute something to Yahoo Origamiboats group for all knowledge I am learning here. > > > > You can check what interface, search functions offers Google "Improvement" discussion group. NO MEMBERSHIP required. However, non-Google users please read instructions at the end of this message. > > > > "Improvement" discussion group is about What You Want to See in GOOGLE/Yahoo Origamiboats group and how to organize it better. Go to http://groups.google.com/group/origamiboats-improve This group does NOT require membership, but it is moderated. This means you can post your message, but it will not appear in the group's messages until I read it and post it there (more likely ones a day). > > > > There are several reasons for this now: > > - Keep it spam free > > - Please remember, Google group IS THE EXTENSION of Yahoo group - not competitor. > > - Be polite. Respect Yahoo group members. Do not badmouth Yahoo Origamiboats members - have guts to do it in Yahoo group. > > - Negative comments is OK, just do not use foul language. > > - Please, do not send messages like "Test" - give some useful input (what information do you want to see or what changes are necessary) > > > > Yahoo Group Members! If someone has ALL previous archive (digest, separate messages) of Yahoo Origamiboats group up to Jan 1 2010, please send it to yahooorigamiboats@ I will try to do my best to organize it. > > > > ATTENTION of Yahoo group members who does not have Google account: > > ***** > > You can send your comments from your non-Google e-mail by writing e-mail > > > > To: > > origamiboats-improve@... > > > > With the Subject: > > Yahoo_Origamiboats_group_members_comments > > > > Please, copy/paste it to the Subject line (to keep it in the same thread). It will help to test searching function too for this thread. > > > > Write your comments/suggestions > > > > ****** > > > > CAUTION: > > Please note, extended view of the message WILL NOT show your FULL e-mail address in the message (but good part of it). However, it WILL show your Nickname/First_Last_name. > > The part of your e-mail address and Nickname/Name WILL NOT be visible in short view of the message. > > > > ATTENTION to MEMBERS WHO POSTED PICTURES in Yahoo Origamiboats pictures/file section. WOULD YOU BE SO KIND to GIVE ME PERMISSIONS TO POST YOUR BOAT's PICTURES in Google group? Please, e-mail me from my member's link (top right corner of this message) which one you allow to post in Google group. > > > > Thanks to ALL! > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > | 21877|21877|2010-01-02 13:37:52|heretic_37ft|Mr. Wild_Explorer|Wild: Big balls man! Starting to like you! You can impove my website too when your done, it needs it bad... starting with back-ups and weeding out useless dog @#$#@$. ---Heretic| 21878|21878|2010-01-02 14:29:44|wild_explorer|Reading messages by topic's|If you are looking for some topics in Yahoo Origamiboats group, look at the left upper corner of message list (shows Most Recent Messages - by default). Click on -> (Group by Topic) It will show now - Most Recent Topics Click on -> (View All) next to Most Recent Topics This give you unspecified numbers of topics and will not allow to search it "by topic subject line", but it is much easier to find messages (need go through all topics) if you looking for particular topic.| 21879|21861|2010-01-02 14:52:44|brentswain38|Re: Anchor Well Ventilator|I weld a bar or a couple of 1/2 inch ss rods across the opening , with a half inch ss nut welded in the middle. A piece of ss reddi rod goes thru this nut with a 7 inch diameter round of 1/8th inch ss plate on it held between two ss nuts. You simply spin the plate down on the 6 inch pipe to seal it. A piece of inner tube glued to the plate is the seal. I guess it's time I drew it up, to make it clearer Run a tap thru the nut, after welding , or the shrinkage of the weld will make it jam. --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "jonathanswef" wrote: > > Brent, > You mention in your book an anchor well ventilator; a sectional drawing in the book shows a piece of 6 inch pipe going straight into the boat interior. Did I understand that right? What keeps the water out? > Many thanks, > Jonathan. > | 21880|21862|2010-01-02 14:57:56|brentswain38|Re: Common Screw Ups|How much distortion did you get? You could possibly force some out by forcing an extra longitudinal in with a hydraulic jack on the end of a post, then welding it before letting the jack off.. --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "jonathanswef" wrote: > > Brent, you did a series of posts on common screw ups, which I found most useful. One which hurt when reading was that some weld the decks to hull both underneath and on top, when you only need to weld the top; I read that, having just finished welding the decks... yes, both top and bottom! > > If anyone were to catalogue the messages, pulling out these ones might be a good place to start; anyone working their way through all the past messages to get the combined experience and wisdom of the board members would benifit from starting with the screw ups series. > > If you've thought of any more, Brent, please do share them with us. > > Jonathan. > | 21881|21870|2010-01-02 14:59:42|brentswain38|Re: BS36 1985 "Silver Moon" for sale in WA|SOLD to a keen owner. Brent --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "wild_explorer" wrote: > > I was searching WEB for Brent's boats and found this one for sale in WA > > http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listing/boatFullDetails.jsp?boat_id=2101280&ybw=&units=Feet¤cy=USD&access=Public&listing_id=64229&url= > > Has specs and pictures. > | 21882|21850|2010-01-02 15:02:19|brentswain38|Re: Buggering with the chain|A friend suggested an easy way to get rust off a chain, before galvanizing. Just tie it to your back bumper and drag it down a remote country gravel road. Beware of tailgators. --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "steve" wrote: > > Haidan , I had 200' of chain re-galvanised in NZ 22 yrs ago. It was economically reasonable there and then. > The chain was not as rusty as the chain you got from me. I can't remember how exactly they cleaned it up before re-galvanising. > > I can't imagine paint helping a lot unless you didn't use the chain at all for anchoring , just decorate the foredeck with it. Then you could use your favorite colour, too. > > The ironic thing about having the rusty chain causing staining of the deck is that everyone thinks you have a steel boat , even though it's nothing to do with that. I imagine that you don't care deeply about this issue. > > Steve > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "theboilerflue" wrote: > > > > I sorta wonder if it does any good trying to take that rust of the chain, I'm certainly am NOT worried about the looks about deck or just on the chain, so with that out of the question do you think de-rusting and zinc painting would serve any purpose? I kinda think paint would just chip of pretty quick anyone done this? and re-galvanising is not really feasible. I am not doubting the strength of the stuff just would like it to be kept all in one piece rather than slowly rusting away. > | 21883|21850|2010-01-02 15:03:21|brentswain38|Re: Buggering with the chain|You guys in freshwater have it easy. About 10 years is max for salt water , less in the tropics. --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Gary H. Lucas" wrote: > > When they hot dip galvanize the first step is to dip it in hot caustic. > That strips off all the organics, bi-fouling, oil and grease. Then they dip > it hot acid. The acid removes scale and rust. Then it's into the kettle of > hot zinc at around 800 degrees. > > My anchor was badly rusted when I bought my boat and I work with a vendor > that sends out a lot of galvanizing for us. I beat the hell out of it with > a claw hammer, then a grinder and a wire wheel. I dropped it off at there > shop and it was done for free, it came out quite well. Probably good for > another 25 years! > > Gary H. Lucas > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "steve" > To: > Sent: Friday, January 01, 2010 8:57 PM > Subject: [origamiboats] Buggering with the chain > > > Haidan , I had 200' of chain re-galvanised in NZ 22 yrs ago. It was > economically reasonable there and then. > The chain was not as rusty as the chain you got from me. I can't remember > how exactly they cleaned it up before re-galvanising. > > I can't imagine paint helping a lot unless you didn't use the chain at all > for anchoring , just decorate the foredeck with it. Then you could use your > favorite colour, too. > > The ironic thing about having the rusty chain causing staining of the deck > is that everyone thinks you have a steel boat , even though it's nothing to > do with that. I imagine that you don't care deeply about this issue. > > Steve > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "theboilerflue" wrote: > > > > I sorta wonder if it does any good trying to take that rust of the chain, > > I'm certainly am NOT worried about the looks about deck or just on the > > chain, so with that out of the question do you think de-rusting and zinc > > painting would serve any purpose? I kinda think paint would just chip of > > pretty quick anyone done this? and re-galvanising is not really feasible. > > I am not doubting the strength of the stuff just would like it to be kept > > all in one piece rather than slowly rusting away. > | 21884|21867|2010-01-02 15:04:15|brentswain38|Re: How to improve (Origamiboats) group goes Live -please give your |Yahoo's lawyers may want to pay him a visit over copyright infringement. He gave them all the evidence they need. --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "sae140" wrote: > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, gschnell@ wrote: > > > > This is nothing short of theft. I can't believe this guy is even allowed access to the site. Bar him. Gord > > Is pulling posts off one site (without anyone's consent) and posting them elsewhere legitimate ? I agree that pinching stuff like this from a commercial site would be considered theft. Are we any different ? > > I, for one, am not happy about this ... > > Colin > | 21885|21867|2010-01-02 15:12:54|ric|Re: How to improve (Origamiboats) group goes Live -please give your |So you are suggesting that Yahoo own the copyright to all your ideas and intellectual knowledge that you have developed over the years Bent? Very interesting; And a bit of a quandary for you.! Ric Hutchings --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "brentswain38" wrote: > > > Yahoo's lawyers may want to pay him a visit over copyright infringement. He gave them all the evidence they need. | 21886|21850|2010-01-02 16:36:30|Gary H. Lucas|Re: Buggering with the chain|A spinner is a basket centrifuge. It is used when they do bolts and nuts and small parts. The issue is whether the galvanizer has spinner, and how much weight it can hold. A number of galvanizers I have dealt with don't have them. Gary H. Lucas ----- Original Message ----- From: "sae140" To: Sent: Saturday, January 02, 2010 9:57 AM Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Buggering with the chain --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Doug Jackson wrote: > > Hey Gary > > I've talked to the galvanizing place down the street from me about > galvanizing chain and they don't know how they would keep the links from > sticking to each other when they pulled them from the tank. How is that > done? > I've heard say that they use a thing called a 'spinner' when galvanising chain. But exactly what a spinner is and how it works, couldn't say. Colin | 21887|21867|2010-01-02 17:38:05|James Pronk|Re: How to improve (Origamiboats) group goes Live -please give your |I see a lot of links to advertising on this google page. Is this guy stealing the info and collecting money for advertising?  --- On Sat, 1/2/10, brentswain38 wrote: From: brentswain38 Subject: [origamiboats] Re: How to improve (Origamiboats) group goes Live -please give your input To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Received: Saturday, January 2, 2010, 3:04 PM   Yahoo's lawyers may want to pay him a visit over copyright infringement. He gave them all the evidence they need. --- In origamiboats@ yahoogroups. com, "sae140" wrote: > > --- In origamiboats@ yahoogroups. com, gschnell@ wrote: > > > > This is nothing short of theft. I can't believe this guy is even allowed access to the site. Bar him. Gord > > Is pulling posts off one site (without anyone's consent) and posting them elsewhere legitimate ? I agree that pinching stuff like this from a commercial site would be considered theft. Are we any different ? > > I, for one, am not happy about this ... > > Colin > __________________________________________________________________ The new Internet Explorer® 8 - Faster, safer, easier. Optimized for Yahoo! Get it Now for Free! at http://downloads.yahoo.com/ca/internetexplorer/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 21888|21888|2010-01-02 18:10:21|SHANE ROTHWELL|Chain|Haiden, I have no idea how to recoat/reprotect the chain as I was told some time ago that re-galvalizing could not be done. Obviously others have more experience in this regard & you got a pretty good responce eh But the CLR works a treat for removal of rust if you want the simple, on deck method, but use a plastic bucket to do it in. No idea how enviromentally good/bad the stuf is tho. Shane __________________________________________________________________ The new Internet Explorer® 8 - Faster, safer, easier. Optimized for Yahoo! Get it Now for Free! at http://downloads.yahoo.com/ca/internetexplorer/| 21889|21812|2010-01-02 18:25:20|SHANE ROTHWELL|Buggering with the group|Hey Guys, We've got about 24-2500 members don't we? How about some comments from others re getting rid of this bloody idiot "Wild Wanker" I for one think that Gord's suggestion is a good one. Shane Posted by: "q243w5" q243w5@... q243w5 Fri Jan 1, 2010 9:45 pm (PST) the question is why bother with any of this and why conjest this group's messages with usless dribble. Start your own gooogle group if you like but lay off here. robin Posted by: "gschnell@..." gschnell@... withamazinggrace Fri Jan 1, 2010 11:08 pm (PST) This is nothing short of theft. I can't believe this guy is even allowed access to the site. Bar him. Gord Sent wirelessly from my BlackBerry device on the Bell network. Envoyé sans fil par mon terminal mobile BlackBerry sur le réseau de Bell. - In origamiboats@ yahoogroups. com, "wild_explorer" wrote: > > To ALL Yahoo Origamiboats group members. I set up the group for mirroring Yahoo Origamiboats group http://groups. google.com/ group/origamiboa ts > Please take a look at the main page and "Improvement" discussion (use link on main page or go directly to http://groups. google.com/ group/origamiboa ts-improve ). > > The main Google Origamiboats group WILL NOT accept any members at this time (and more likely in near future ether). It would be administrated by manager (me at this time) and main goal of this group would be to backup Yahoo Origamiboats group discussions. I will try to organize it, but it is HUGE __________________________________________________________________ The new Internet Explorer® 8 - Faster, safer, easier. Optimized for Yahoo! Get it Now for Free! at http://downloads.yahoo.com/ca/internetexplorer/| 21890|21867|2010-01-02 20:59:47|wild_explorer|Re: How to improve (Origamiboats) group goes Live -please give your |These advertising's are Goggle's links. This is the price you pay for Google's free service. At least, these links are only text links, instead of flashing image banners. And they are contest related - boating. If you still have questions - ask Google, why they put it there. To: SHANE ROTHWELL You feel very safe and brave in front of you computer and calling me names. Are not you? If we were face to face, I would not tolerate it. But in this group, I have to respect ALL members (even you). Why do not you take all you profanity, you enjoying so much, to your local pub/bar, call somebody names there, get deserved punch in your face, and leave happily? And , please, do not act here like group's elected representative. You are not. I hope, you contribute something more useful to this group than your profanity. --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, James Pronk wrote: > > I see a lot of links to advertising on this google page. Is this guy stealing the info and collecting money for advertising?  | 21891|21850|2010-01-02 21:02:10|haidan@graffiti.net|Re: Buggering with the chain|That would be a very labour intensive way of doing it, although maybe at some point it'd be worth doing it'd real fun all that molten zinc, kinda like pouring the keel, if it weren't so damn toxic I'd do it all the time. Molten zinc is less toxic than lead, although hotter... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]| 21892|21850|2010-01-02 21:04:26|haidan@graffiti.net|Re: Buggering with the Group|cheers. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]| 21893|21870|2010-01-02 21:13:30|theboilerflue|Re: BS36 1985 "Silver Moon" for sale in WA|looks like someone went to great length to make that awesome boat look just like a regular yacht. --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "wild_explorer" wrote: > > I was searching WEB for Brent's boats and found this one for sale in WA > > http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listing/boatFullDetails.jsp?boat_id=2101280&ybw=&units=Feet¤cy=USD&access=Public&listing_id=64229&url= > > Has specs and pictures. > | 21894|21870|2010-01-02 21:17:12|theboilerflue|Re: BS36 1985 "Silver Moon" for sale in WA|"Note that the large cockpit is built for offshore comfort" where's the pilot house? --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "wild_explorer" wrote: > > I was searching WEB for Brent's boats and found this one for sale in WA > > http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listing/boatFullDetails.jsp?boat_id=2101280&ybw=&units=Feet¤cy=USD&access=Public&listing_id=64229&url= > > Has specs and pictures. > | 21895|21888|2010-01-02 21:22:49|theboilerflue|Re: Chain|That was kinda my impression of re-galvanising as well that maybe it could be done but wouldn't really be all that great anyway, so maybe not. I still am a fan of the Brent method of hauling a chain behind a car on a dirt road - to shake the rust off. --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, SHANE ROTHWELL wrote: > > Haiden, > > I have no idea how to recoat/reprotect the chain as I was told some time ago that re-galvalizing could not be done. Obviously others have more experience in this regard & you got a pretty good responce eh > > But the CLR works a treat for removal of rust if you want the simple, on deck method, but use a plastic bucket to do it in. No idea how enviromentally good/bad the stuf is tho. > > Shane > > > __________________________________________________________________ > The new Internet Explorer® 8 - Faster, safer, easier. Optimized for Yahoo! Get it Now for Free! at http://downloads.yahoo.com/ca/internetexplorer/ > | 21896|21896|2010-01-02 23:03:09|heretic_37ft|I would rather fight than switch from my BS37 sailboat|All Origamis: When all else fails, I follow Brent and Karl because they are proven! You guys are my heros!! But, can we get better...I think so? Suggestion: exploit the weaknesses of the unruly members and use them for porfit. Like the British did with early Americans? BTW I took a bunch of Canadians from Alberta sailing on my BS 37' for New Year. We saw the Arizona and Utah in Perl Harbor (I have a permit to sail in Perl). Polished a 18 pack on the way! Those guys from Alberta can down the brews! -- Your friendly and loyal Hereitc| 21897|21867|2010-01-02 23:33:11|Ben Okopnik|Re: How to improve (Origamiboats) group goes Live -please give your |On Sat, Jan 02, 2010 at 11:26:22AM -0500, David Frantz wrote: > > So while I don't like the approach taken here, I do see value in all > the postings on the forum and believe that having a backup is a good > thing. Is this action ligitimate? That is a very good question > and must say I'm not a lawyer. My belief is that there is an implied > copyright for each post a user makes. Sorry, you're mistaken. If this was the case, then Google (and every other search service) would be violating the law every time they cached a post or a site. Doubly so for The Wayback Machine, etc. > In any event it does bring up an interesting question which is: what > happens when Yahoo crashes hard and all this material vanishes? > Yeah I know it is unlikely and if something did happen we are not > likely to loose everything but imagine if it did happen. Anybody remember Geocities? A lot of people never backed up their websites or discussion groups, because it was way, way too big to ever shut down. And then, one day, it wasn't. > I know from user space trying to backup all of a Yahoo group is not > easy. I've never managed a Group so I'm not sure if the owners or > moderators have better access that would allow running a backup > script. If not we rely totally on Yahoo not to screw up. Nope - Yahoo does not allow such access. They see it as counter to their interests - because if you could do that, you could just take the content and move it to another server, and you'd no longer be tied to Yahoo. Thus, their policy of allowing only 200-some posts to be downloaded at a time. If _that_ cute little trick of theirs didn't worry anyone - and I assure you it's true; I tried pulling down all the posts a few days back - then lots of folks aren't understanding what's going on. > One more note: I often run "wget" to grab a web site or part of one to > have a local copy. Once you learn it's use it is a great way to get > copies of tutorials and HTML manuals that are online. I've done this > for sqlite and other open source programs and it seems to be accepted > usage. While I've never tried it I don't think it would work well > against Yahoo Groups. Atleast not from what I've seen as a common > member. It works fine, as long as you construct the URL correctly. That was exactly what my script that I posted a few days ago did. Again, though - Yahoo chops you off at 200-some posts per day. I could set up a series of scripts on a group of machines and beat that game, but since someone else is already doing it, I don't need to repeat their work. -- OKOPNIK CONSULTING Custom Computing Solutions For Your Business Expert-led Training | Dynamic, vital websites | Custom programming 443-250-7895 http://okopnik.com| 21898|21862|2010-01-03 08:09:15|Jonathan Stevens|Re: Common Screw Ups|I didn't get any distortion welding top and btm of deck, Brent; I did spend time I didn't need to and welding rods. I tend only weld a couple of inches here and then there which I think I read about here. Jonathan. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]| 21899|21861|2010-01-03 08:10:18|Jonathan Stevens|Re: Anchor Well Ventilator|Thanks, Brent; I think I'll do just that. Jonathan. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]| 21900|21867|2010-01-03 08:12:17|sae140|Re: How to improve (Origamiboats) group goes Live -please give your |--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "wild_explorer" wrote: > > To Gord and ALL. Folks, if you want to beat me up - do it in the group I gave you link for in message #21867 ( http://groups.google.com/group/origamiboats-improve )? I will be glad to answer ALL your questions. > Screw you, mister - don't tell us what to do - why should *anyone* have to go *anywhere* except here. This is OUR group. THIS is where we communicate. Not somewhere of YOUR choosing. Why should anyone be expected to jump through YOUR hoops because YOU want to screw with the status quo ? Your presence here is proving to be very troll-like. Colin| 21901|21867|2010-01-03 09:59:36|scott|Re: How to improve (Origamiboats) group goes Live -please give your |It is very disheartening listening to all the anger here. This community is supposedly an open resource for everyone interested in building origami boats in the interests of promoting a cheaper, better way of building. Brents book, plans and alex's dvd are proprietary information sold by them. I think everyone respects that, I certainly do. The posts made to the forum were made by each of you individually as a question or answer having to do with building origami boats. Did you ask for payment at the time you answered a question or did you do it to freely share your knowledge with someone else that asked a question and also in the hope that those in the future would be able to also view your answer by searching for it. If you didn't intend anyone else to read it then you should have sent a private email to the individual and not posted the information publicly. Do you now at a later date no longer want your posts to be seen by anyone? sigh.... My belief was that this group was about helping others, about freely sharing information, about giving knowledge. If that is so I would think that it you would be happy if that knowledge was freely and openly distributed as far and wide as you could get it so that it can't just arbitrarily disappear one day. There "is" a problem with searching the archives here on yahoo. It has been brought up many many times since the day I joined years ago. I don't remember everyone bitching so hard about the guy that just copied everything and hosted an off site search able site and told everyone afterward. I remember some people saying thank you. This guy tried to ask first and got a mixed response. Did it and got flamed. Personally I think that every member here should get a full backup of the site. How about a searchable ISO you could burn a cd or dvd from and plug into your computer and search the old content. Several people that are deep in the guts of the computer and Internet industry that are members here have told you about the risks to the data that is here on yahoo groups due to servers failing or plain business policy's that yahoo might implement. here is Yahoo's printed terms of service for their responsibility in regards to securing the data and preserving it for the group "You agree that Yahoo! has no responsibility or liability for the deletion or failure to store any messages and other communications or other Content maintained or transmitted by the Yahoo! Services. " and here is their stated policy on their responsibility to maintain the yahoo groups service. "Yahoo! reserves the right at any time and from time to time to modify or discontinue, temporarily or permanently, the Yahoo! Services (or any part thereof) with or without notice. You agree that Yahoo! shall not be liable to you or to any third party for any modification, suspension or discontinuance of the Yahoo! Services (or any part thereof)." Just think about it without getting knee jerk angry. It's an imperfect world that people are trying to imperfectly improve. In our own little corner of it this involves planning on continuity of data and improved usage. My personal opinion is that I give anyone permission to copy my content here in this group in any way that they please and to spread it as far as they can to as many people as they can. Even if someone takes it and profits from it, I don't really care. If it was proprietary information that I used for profit I wouldn't have posted it in a publicly available forum in the first place. In Brents place where this is most applicable I think he has profited more by sharing information that he uses to build boats freely than if he had never shared it. For him it is an increadable free advertising medium. Without this free resource that draws thousands of people to it and spreads the word I and many other people would have never heard of origami boats nor would we have ordered brents book or alex's dvd and paid for them. Which I have done with both of them.| 21902|21867|2010-01-03 11:17:54|Marty Puckett|Re: How to improve (Origamiboats) group goes Live -please give your |On Jan 3, 2010, at 7:12 AM, "sae140" wrote: > > Screw you, mister - don't tell us what to do - Take your own advice. > why should *anyone* have to go *anywhere* except here. This is OUR > group. 'OUR' includes him as well, you should keep that in mind. > THIS is where we communicate. Until Yahoo decides it's not cost effective to keep the groups open and everything vanishes into the ether. All posts, files, and email addresses gone forever. > Not somewhere of YOUR choosing. > > Why should anyone be expected to jump through YOUR hoops because YOU > want to screw with the status quo ? > > Your presence here is proving to be very troll-like. And yours is confrontational, dictatorial, and inflexible. The hallmarks of most extinct species, countries, and civilizations. > > Colin > > > > Marty Puckett Ps, as someone on another list said, the noise to signal ratio has deteriorated to the point that it is now not worth the trouble to try to separate the wheat from the chaff. Goodbye all. Ben, good luck, you obviously have more patience with fools than I do.| 21903|14072|2010-01-03 11:38:41|Jonathan Stevens|Eighteen|I got some time on Eighteen at last. Made and welded in the tabs for the bulkheads. Not Brent's way using the actual bulkheads to set the positions and then welding them in, but by measurement. I also got the pilothouse roof beams in place. These go fore and aft. I am putting the mast for the steadying sail (remember Eighteen is a motor boat) on the pilothouse roof, so having made the template at least a year ago for the mast support beam, I finally cut that out and welded that in too. I've made endless tabs to fix the headlining to; my next job is to decide exactly where to put them. Jonathan. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]| 21904|21850|2010-01-03 11:38:51|SHANE ROTHWELL|Buggering with the Group|Wild Wank, I hope Yahoo's lawers DO persue you for your blatant thieft, espcially, as Brent so succinctly put it, you have provided all the evidnece needed to nail you. Why is it, that I feel that I feel I would not be alone in supporting Yahoo in thier claim for dammages? And how can it possibly be denied that there is very clearly intent to profit, from all the advertising on the google site which YOU instigated? Aside from all that, you still have not had the integrity to answer my previous question, and just so it does not get lost in all the bullshit you spew, very specifically: - Do you have a name? (where you from? and you do what? other than spew bullshit?) - where the hell do you get off dictating ANYTHING? SHANE Posted by: "brentswain38" brentswain38@... brentswain38 Sat Jan 2, 2010 12:04 pm (PST) Yahoo's lawyers may want to pay him a visit over copyright infringement. He gave them all the evidence they need. --- In origamiboats@ yahoogroups. com, "sae140" wrote: > > --- In origamiboats@ yahoogroups. com, gschnell@ wrote: > > > > This is nothing short of theft. I can't believe this guy is even allowed access to the site. Bar him. Gord > > Is pulling posts off one site (without anyone's consent) and posting them elsewhere legitimate ? I agree that pinching stuff like this from a commercial site would be considered theft. Are we any different ? > > I, for one, am not happy about this ... > > Colin > Posted by: "James Pronk" jpronk1@... jpronk1 Sat Jan 2, 2010 2:38 pm (PST) I see a lot of links to advertising on this google page. Is this guy stealing the info and collecting money for advertising? __________________________________________________________________ Looking for the perfect gift? Give the gift of Flickr! http://www.flickr.com/gift/ | 21905|21812|2010-01-03 12:17:46|SHANE ROTHWELL|Buggering with the group|"Wild" Wank, Quite wrong, I am as liable to litigation as anyone else, but I call it like I see it. And again, quite wrong, respect is an earned comodity. How could your actions be considered anything other than outright FRAUD???? Other than, of course, THIEFT??? Oh, and what about your dictatorial bullshit??? So if you will not tolerate it, Mr. tough guy, why don't you sue me? Other than the fact that you don't have a leg to stand on that is? I, like anyone else, would be easy to find, so why don't you sue me for the "huge injustice" I have perpetrated against you? I wonder if anyone else figures I act as the groups self elected/designated representative, other than you? Gee, could it be my dictatorial statements like "THIS TOPIC OF DISGUSSION IS BANNED FROM THIS SITE"? Gee, I forgot, that was you wasn't it? And how about the fact that you don't have the balls or integrity to answer a single question directly?? If it's a bit embarrassing or difficult, you do the 'politically correct' thing, and ignore the question, and spew a whole pletoria of other diversionary bullshit, don't you?? Maybe I flatter myself, but from time to time I have bits and pieces to add to the group that hopefully do contribute posatively. Frankly I believe this can be included in with the sum total, you know, it's called removing the garbage. As you appear to have a very thick skin, hopefully Yahoo's lawyers will be able to shut you up. One last thing. Have you ever heard the definition of the term "Political Correctness"? Which is: "Perpetrated by people who maintain that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by it's clean end" So how about some answers? Shane Posted by: "wild_explorer" williswildest@... wild_explorer Sat Jan 2, 2010 5:59 pm (PST) To: SHANE ROTHWELL You feel very safe and brave in front of you computer and calling me names. Are not you? If we were face to face, I would not tolerate it. But in this group, I have to respect ALL members (even you). Why do not you take all you profanity, you enjoying so much, to your local pub/bar, call somebody names there, get deserved punch in your face, and leave happily? And , please, do not act here like group's elected representative. You are not. I hope, you contribute something more useful to this group than your profanity. --- In origamiboats@ yahoogroups. com, James Pronk wrote: > > I see a lot of links to advertising on this google page. Is this guy stealing the info and collecting money for advertising? __________________________________________________________________ The new Internet Explorer® 8 - Faster, safer, easier. Optimized for Yahoo! Get it Now for Free! at http://downloads.yahoo.com/ca/internetexplorer/ | 21906|21850|2010-01-03 13:29:17|Ben Okopnik|Re: Buggering with the Group|On Thu, Dec 31, 2009 at 07:47:15PM -0000, wild_explorer wrote: > Happy New Year to ALL! Shane, read the message # 21844 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/message/21844 to the LAST word in that message (not just first sentences), please. > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, SHANE ROTHWELL > > Had a good giggle & from the guys silence, he may have had enough. What do you think? Haidan: I appreciate your technical and other contributions here on the list, but it looks like you directed your "take it to email" to the wrong guy. Why not tell it to the person who *starts* all the crap here on the list instead of me, or someone else who responds to him? Better yet, why don't _you_ show some integrity and take it to email with Shane yourself? Maybe try to convince him not to attack people here, especially ones who try to contribute and thus trigger his insane jealousy of anyone competent? I suppose it's easier to tell someone else to do it, especially when you know he's too much of an idiot to understand what's being talked about, to respond positively to any reasonable request, or to be anything except a loud-mouthed, obnoxious moron who has never added anything of value here? If that's too much of a job for you, then I suggest you don't try to push it off onto someone else. I've killfiled Shane so I don't have to see his garbage, and if it wasn't for people like you forwarding his noise, I'd never see anything from him. Why not stop stirring up the flames, and then complaining that it's unpleasantly hot here? -- OKOPNIK CONSULTING Custom Computing Solutions For Your Business Expert-led Training | Dynamic, vital websites | Custom programming 443-250-7895 http://okopnik.com| 21907|21867|2010-01-03 13:46:58|Ben Okopnik|Re: How to improve (Origamiboats) group goes Live -please give your |On Sun, Jan 03, 2010 at 10:16:41AM -0600, Marty Puckett wrote: > On Jan 3, 2010, at 7:12 AM, "sae140" wrote: > > > Why should anyone be expected to jump through YOUR hoops because YOU > > want to screw with the status quo ? > > > > Your presence here is proving to be very troll-like. > > And yours is confrontational, dictatorial, and inflexible. The > hallmarks of most extinct species, countries, and civilizations. > > Ps, as someone on another list said, the noise to signal ratio has > deteriorated to the point that it is now not worth the trouble to try > to separate the wheat from the chaff. Goodbye all. Thanks, Colin - you've just helped the Moron Duo chase away someone who may have been a useful contributor to this list, and may have become a client for Brent. As a result, this forum has that much less value and that much more hostility. Good job. -- OKOPNIK CONSULTING Custom Computing Solutions For Your Business Expert-led Training | Dynamic, vital websites | Custom programming 443-250-7895 http://okopnik.com| 21908|21867|2010-01-03 13:53:40|Ben Okopnik|Re: How to improve (Origamiboats) group goes Live -please give your |On Sat, Jan 02, 2010 at 03:02:59PM -0000, sae140 wrote: > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, gschnell@... wrote: > > > > This is nothing short of theft. I can't believe this guy is even allowed access to the site. Bar him. Gord > > Is pulling posts off one site (without anyone's consent) and posting > them elsewhere legitimate ? I agree that pinching stuff like this > from a commercial site would be considered theft. Are we any different > ? > > I, for one, am not happy about this ... When you post anything in a forum that's open to the public, anyone is allowed to copy it. This is such a forum. For anyone who wasn't aware of this, there's no privacy here: not only does Yahoo not guarantee anything of the sort, but you don't even have to be a member of this group to read them. The guy is offering a _backup_ service for this forum. By doing so, he's protecting the interests of everyone who would like this content to not disappear no matter what Yahoo may do in the future. I, for one, am grateful: if I had the time and the effort to spare, I'd have done the same thing (although my thoughts would have run more to making a private backup on my own machine, to be offered to, say, Alex or Brent, in case Yahoo blew this group out of existence.) What, exactly, is anyone's beef here? I really am puzzled. What is the downside that anyone sees in this? -- OKOPNIK CONSULTING Custom Computing Solutions For Your Business Expert-led Training | Dynamic, vital websites | Custom programming 443-250-7895 http://okopnik.com| 21909|21867|2010-01-03 13:54:45|Ben Okopnik|Re: How to improve (Origamiboats) group goes Live -please give your |On Sun, Jan 03, 2010 at 02:57:24PM -0000, scott wrote: > > My belief was that this group was about helping others, about freely > sharing information, about giving knowledge. If that is so I would > think that it you would be happy if that knowledge was freely and > openly distributed as far and wide as you could get it so that it > can't just arbitrarily disappear one day. I've snipped it down to a salient paragraph, but - all of it was very well said, Scott, and all precisely to the point. Thank you. -- OKOPNIK CONSULTING Custom Computing Solutions For Your Business Expert-led Training | Dynamic, vital websites | Custom programming 443-250-7895 http://okopnik.com| 21910|21867|2010-01-03 14:47:18|Gord Schnell|Re: How to improve (Origamiboats) group goes Live -please give your |Scot Point taken! What you say is true. I believe the "acrymony" stems from the fact that "wild explorer" is "an unknown quantity" to the rest of the members. He has not been a part of the long term discussions and has not established a level of understanding and trust. His motives are suspect. I agree that an "archive" is prudent. It might be as simple as a "snap shot" backup on a monthly basis. Yahoo has made that slightly difficult, deliberately I'm sure. Lets explore that avenue and possible alternatives. If we decide to take Wild Explorers' advice, then other members should participate in the operation to maintain the "trust" level. Gord On 3-Jan-10, at 6:57 AM, scott wrote: > It is very disheartening listening to all the anger here. This > community is supposedly an open resource for everyone interested in > building origami boats in the interests of promoting a cheaper, > better way of building. > > Brents book, plans and alex's dvd are proprietary information sold > by them. I think everyone respects that, I certainly do. > > The posts made to the forum were made by each of you individually as > a question or answer having to do with building origami boats. Did > you ask for payment at the time you answered a question or did you > do it to freely share your knowledge with someone else that asked a > question and also in the hope that those in the future would be able > to also view your answer by searching for it. If you didn't intend > anyone else to read it then you should have sent a private email to > the individual and not posted the information publicly. Do you now > at a later date no longer want your posts to be seen by anyone? > > sigh.... > > My belief was that this group was about helping others, about freely > sharing information, about giving knowledge. If that is so I would > think that it you would be happy if that knowledge was freely and > openly distributed as far and wide as you could get it so that it > can't just arbitrarily disappear one day. > > There "is" a problem with searching the archives here on yahoo. It > has been brought up many many times since the day I joined years > ago. I don't remember everyone bitching so hard about the guy that > just copied everything and hosted an off site search able site and > told everyone afterward. I remember some people saying thank you. > This guy tried to ask first and got a mixed response. Did it and got > flamed. Personally I think that every member here should get a full > backup of the site. How about a searchable ISO you could burn a cd > or dvd from and plug into your computer and search the old content. > > Several people that are deep in the guts of the computer and > Internet industry that are members here have told you about the > risks to the data that is here on yahoo groups due to servers > failing or plain business policy's that yahoo might implement. > > here is Yahoo's printed terms of service for their responsibility in > regards to securing the data and preserving it for the group > > "You agree that Yahoo! has no responsibility or liability for the > deletion or failure to store any messages and other communications > or other Content maintained or transmitted by the Yahoo! Services. " > > and here is their stated policy on their responsibility > to maintain the yahoo groups service. > > "Yahoo! reserves the right at any time and from time to time to > modify or discontinue, temporarily or permanently, the Yahoo! > Services (or any part thereof) with or without notice. You agree > that Yahoo! shall not be liable to you or to any third party for any > modification, suspension or discontinuance of the Yahoo! Services > (or any part thereof)." > > Just think about it without getting knee jerk angry. It's an > imperfect world that people are trying to imperfectly improve. In > our own little corner of it this involves planning on continuity of > data and improved usage. > > My personal opinion is that I give anyone permission to copy my > content here in this group in any way that they please and to spread > it as far as they can to as many people as they can. Even if someone > takes it and profits from it, I don't really care. If it was > proprietary information that I used for profit I wouldn't have > posted it in a publicly available forum in the first place. > > In Brents place where this is most applicable I think he has > profited more by sharing information that he uses to build boats > freely than if he had never shared it. For him it is an increadable > free advertising medium. Without this free resource that draws > thousands of people to it and spreads the word I and many other > people would have never heard of origami boats nor would we have > ordered brents book or alex's dvd and paid for them. Which I have > done with both of them. > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 21911|21911|2010-01-03 15:05:38|markh|Re: Buggering with the CHAIN|I worked at a charter company and every spring we would mark the chain with red paint every 20 feet. It seemed to wear off all but the inner edges of the chain fairly quickly. I have tried to sandblast chain for regalvanizing the first attempt was 200 feet and I gave up. The owner took it to a place witha a rotary sandblaster. If it was for a shorter length say 30 to 50 feet it might be ok. I have often wondered if placing the chain in a small cement mixer with rocks and sand might work--this would have to been done at the dead of night below your irritating neighbors window. ----- Original Message ----- From: theboilerflue To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, January 01, 2010 3:08 AM Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Buggering with the chain I sorta wonder if it does any good trying to take that rust of the chain, I'm certainly am NOT worried about the looks about deck or just on the chain, so with that out of the question do you think de-rusting and zinc painting would serve any purpose? I kinda think paint would just chip of pretty quick anyone done this? and re-galvanising is not really feasible. I am not doubting the strength of the stuff just would like it to be kept all in one piece rather than slowly rusting away. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 21912|21850|2010-01-03 15:10:09|markh|Re: Buggering with the chain|A spinner is a heavy duty galvanizing centrifuge--I used to have bolts galvanized and they would use the spinner for that too. ----- Original Message ----- From: sae140 To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, January 02, 2010 6:57 AM Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Buggering with the chain --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Doug Jackson wrote: > > Hey Gary > > I've talked to the galvanizing place down the street from me about galvanizing chain and they don't know how they would keep the links from sticking to each other when they pulled them from the tank. How is that done? > I've heard say that they use a thing called a 'spinner' when galvanising chain. But exactly what a spinner is and how it works, couldn't say. Colin [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 21913|14072|2010-01-03 15:14:53|theboilerflue|Re: Eighteen|my thoughts on the headlinner, which i have yet to put up, is that if it kept light since it's curved it'll hold itself in place pretty well pushed up in a curve between the cabinsides. I'm thinking I might even just "glue" it in place with sprayfoam. Just fill a couple of the gaps left in the sprayfoam and plunk the head liner up against the expanding foam. --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Jonathan Stevens" wrote: > > I got some time on Eighteen at last. Made and welded in the tabs for the > bulkheads. Not Brent's way using the actual bulkheads to set the positions > and then welding them in, but by measurement. > > I also got the pilothouse roof beams in place. These go fore and aft. I am > putting the mast for the steadying sail (remember Eighteen is a motor boat) > on the pilothouse roof, so having made the template at least a year ago for > the mast support beam, I finally cut that out and welded that in too. > > I've made endless tabs to fix the headlining to; my next job is to decide > exactly where to put them. > > Jonathan. > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > | 21914|21867|2010-01-03 15:15:16|Denis Buggy|Re: How to improve (Origamiboats) group goes Live -please give your |Dear all I have posted on this site for some years and I have tried to confine my posts to what I have some knowledge of there fore I post infrequently and my philosophy for posting is keep your mouth shut unless you have something of substance to contribute . my wish to post is common to most members of this group ----to repay those who have helped to explain a host of topics from repairing a sail to get a toilet to flush properly , I have never detected copyright on the advice --I detected quite the opposite and how many times in the past month have links been posted to other boat groups who are covering the same topic as ourselves in fact many members of this group post on other groups also and no group has contacted orgamniboats to claim copyright infringement when a link to their site is posted to help us . if somebody will archive all the knowledge which has been contributed in order to help us all then he is very welcome to do so with my small contribution and a vote would settle this quickly . "" AN OPPORTUNITY SHOULD BE AVAILED OF IN THE LIFETIME OF THE OPPORTUNITY "" Denis Buggy Ireland Subject: Re: [origami] Re: How to improve (Origami) group goes Live -please give your input On Sun, Jan 03, 2010 at 02:57:24PM -0000, scott wrote: > > My belief was that this group was about helping others, about freely > sharing information, about giving knowledge. If that is so I would > think that it you would be happy if that knowledge was freely and > openly distributed as far and wide as you could get it so that it > can't just arbitrarily disappear one day. I've snipped it down to a salient paragraph, but - all of it was very well said, Scott, and all precisely to the point. Thank you. -- OKOPNIK CONSULTING Custom Computing Solutions For Your Business Expert-led Training | Dynamic, vital websites | Custom programming 443-250-7895 http://okopnik.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 21915|21867|2010-01-03 15:37:56|Aaron Williams|Re: How to improve (Origamiboats) group goes Live -please give your |I believe it would have been best for Wild to have waited for Alex to bring up the subject. So now we go forward: The issue here is we will all come to the defense of this group because we feel threatened with a loss. which would be a loss to all. This fellow Wild has pointed out the obvious and is trying to show us a way in his knowledge to help this group persevere. I don't think Wild is trying to steel anything! its all free here. Anyone could have started up thier own Google group about Origami boats and linked it back just as Wild has proposed to to do. He may have moved to fast for most of us who are resistant to change, but sometimes change is better. Aaron  --- On Sun, 1/3/10, Denis Buggy wrote: From: Denis Buggy Subject: Re: [origamiboats] Re: How to improve (Origamiboats) group goes Live -please give your input To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, January 3, 2010, 11:15 AM   Dear all I have posted on this site for some years and I have tried to confine my posts to what I have some knowledge of there fore I post infrequently and my philosophy for posting is keep your mouth shut unless you have something of substance to contribute . my wish to post is common to most members of this group ----to repay those who have helped to explain a host of topics from repairing a sail to get a toilet to flush properly , I have never detected copyright on the advice --I detected quite the opposite and how many times in the past month have links been posted to other boat groups who are covering the same topic as ourselves in fact many members of this group post on other groups also and no group has contacted orgamniboats to claim copyright infringement when a link to their site is posted to help us . if somebody will archive all the knowledge which has been contributed in order to help us all then he is very welcome to do so with my small contribution and a vote would settle this quickly . "" AN OPPORTUNITY SHOULD BE AVAILED OF IN THE LIFETIME OF THE OPPORTUNITY "" Denis Buggy Ireland Subject: Re: [origami] Re: How to improve (Origami) group goes Live -please give your input On Sun, Jan 03, 2010 at 02:57:24PM -0000, scott wrote: > > My belief was that this group was about helping others, about freely > sharing information, about giving knowledge. If that is so I would > think that it you would be happy if that knowledge was freely and > openly distributed as far and wide as you could get it so that it > can't just arbitrarily disappear one day. I've snipped it down to a salient paragraph, but - all of it was very well said, Scott, and all precisely to the point. Thank you. -- OKOPNIK CONSULTING Custom Computing Solutions For Your Business Expert-led Training | Dynamic, vital websites | Custom programming 443-250-7895 http://okopnik. com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 21916|21850|2010-01-03 15:44:29|theboilerflue|Re: Buggering with the Group|I usually just hit the reply button in yahoo groups and I leave the previous text so the context of what I'm responding to is there. Is this no good? would people prefer I deleted the previous text? re? > > If that's too much of a job for you, then I suggest you don't try to > push it off onto someone else. I've killfiled Shane so I don't have to > see his garbage, and if it wasn't for people like you forwarding his > noise, I'd never see anything from him. Why not stop stirring up the > flames, and then complaining that it's unpleasantly hot here? > > > -- > OKOPNIK CONSULTING > Custom Computing Solutions For Your Business > Expert-led Training | Dynamic, vital websites | Custom programming > 443-250-7895 http://okopnik.com > | 21917|21850|2010-01-03 16:41:12|David Frantz|Re: Buggering with the Group|Generally I prefer to see top posting. That is new text goes in at the top of the message over the quoted text. That way if I loose my train of thought I can look down to see what the replyer is talking about or to whom. With the new content at the top I don't have to parse every response. Deleting quoted text is an open question but I prefer to at least see what a person is directly responding to if at all possible. In the end some threads get extremely long in which case some stuff has to be loss simply to save space. Now that being said many people will violently disagree with my position. Usually the point of top posting generates the most noise. To which I can only say you can't please everybody. However if you read messages in chronological order the top posting method makes the most sense. David A Frantz websterindustro@... Sent from my iPhone. On Jan 3, 2010, at 3:43 PM, theboilerflue wrote: > I usually just hit the reply button in yahoo groups and I leave the > previous text so the context of what I'm responding to is there. Is > this no good? would people prefer I deleted the previous text? > > > re? >> >> If that's too much of a job for you, then I suggest you don't try to >> push it off onto someone else. I've killfiled Shane so I don't have >> to >> see his garbage, and if it wasn't for people like you forwarding his >> noise, I'd never see anything from him. Why not stop stirring up the >> flames, and then complaining that it's unpleasantly hot here? >> >> >> -- >> OKOPNIK CONSULTING >> Custom Computing Solutions For Your Business >> Expert-led Training | Dynamic, vital websites | Custom programming >> 443-250-7895 http://okopnik.com >> > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.comYahoo > ! Groups Links > > > | 21918|21867|2010-01-03 20:42:02|wild_explorer|Re: How to improve (Origamiboats) group goes Live -please give your |Gord, I agree, there are many flamers, spammers, etc. on Internet - it is right approach to be suspicious. I will try to clarify MY motivation WHY I want to see some improvements in Origamiboats group. 1. I was reading Yahoo Origamiboats group for about 6mo and joined THIS group about 3mo ago. I bought Carl's Picture CDs, Alex's DVD, Brent's book. Honestly, only Origamiboats group and Carl's Pictures CD made me think about building Brent's design boat. DVD and book has very useful information and tips, but (even combined) there is not enough information about full building process - basics only. 2. When I become a member, I was able to access Files and Pictures of this group. So far, I see that about 90% of the content should be available to public and prevent this group from unneeded membership. The group's strength is measured by input of its members - not how many members it has. 3. Check how many members of this group are bouncing (created account, forgot password, create new account, join again). 4. Check Links section - there are not many useful links there related to Group's discussions anymore. 5. I was trying to search my messages in this group by my nickname - NOTHING came up in the search results. And I posted more than 30 messages in this group during last 3 month. That why some people might be suspicious about my activity in this group. ONE MORE WARNING TO THE GROUP. Try to search YOUR posts in the group posted last 3 month - they are there, but not searchable by Author. 6. I am interested in searching this group by "Author". I want to see ALL messages posted by very productive and respected members of this group like Brent, Alex, Gary Lucas, Nadim, Gerd(Yago project), Greg Elliott and others. As you see I read this group, not just trying messing with it. 7. I took a WRONG approach suggesting to move this group. I already said it publicly in this group "I WAS WRONG" and I apologized for that. If somebody missed it, I do it again here. I have no problems to apologize if I make mistakes. 8. I already publicly (in this group), as well as in private e-mail, asked Alex to be a Manger of Google Origamiboats group. I believe, nobody will question HIS motivation to run Google Origamiboats group. 9. After Yahoo group members' feedback, I think it would be better to keep MAIN Google Origamiboats Group accessible by MANAGERS ONLY to run mirror of Yahoo group. NO MEMBERSHIP, except Sub-Groups. So, everybody can access Google group to READ messages and use Yahoo group to POST it. IF something happens with Yahoo OR this group data, we will be able to jump start Google group or recover data for Yahoo group in very short time. 10. I would like to see "OFF LINE version" of Yahoo Group archive and be able to read it on my SmartPhone or computer without Internet access.. P.S. This group has many members who knows computer technology, even experts (like Ben Okopnik). It would be wise to listen their opinions. Most of thise people use Unix and Linux - which were developed by enthusiast for FREE and with help of many people around the Globe. Why not to use the same approach for Origami boats? I hope, I explained my motivation clear enough in plain English. --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Gord Schnell wrote: > > Scot > Point taken! What you say is true. > I believe the "acrymony" stems from the fact that "wild explorer" is > "an unknown quantity" to the rest of the members. He has not been a > part of the long term discussions and has not established a level of > understanding and trust. His motives are suspect. | 21919|21850|2010-01-03 22:42:19|Ben Okopnik|Re: Buggering with the Group|On Sun, Jan 03, 2010 at 08:43:25PM -0000, theboilerflue wrote: > I usually just hit the reply button in yahoo groups and I leave the > previous text so the context of what I'm responding to is there. Is > this no good? would people prefer I deleted the previous text? It's generally considered good net.manners to snip the quoted text down to only the part to which you're replying. In addition, it's a good idea never to quote trolls, or to forward insults or attacks; this only adds noise and heat, and detracts from relevant discussion in the group. -- OKOPNIK CONSULTING Custom Computing Solutions For Your Business Expert-led Training | Dynamic, vital websites | Custom programming 443-250-7895 http://okopnik.com| 21920|21850|2010-01-03 23:38:29|Jimbo|Re: Buggering with the Group|I only post a couple of times a year, but I can say that there are some recent personal comments that are way out of line.  It makes total sense to have a backup of all the great information on this site.  If you consider this site to be useful, why would you not also consider a backup to represent basic common sense?  Only an idiot does not backup his own info these days.  Do we want to collectively become an idiotic group that does not backup? Further advantages of improved search functions only add to the logic of gradually switching to an improved service provider.  First a backup, then a mirrored site, then later PERHAPS a move across.  For those who think we should continue with yahoo only because we always have used the same service, here is the same style of question but on another topic:  Do you think we should continue with wooden boatbuilding techniques because the human race has pursued this style for the last few thousand years?  Should we use fibreglass because it has been the most popular for the last few decades?  Most of us who consider origami boatbuilding to be optimal boatbuilding system do NOT base our analysis on tradition - we base our analysis on common sense, maths, economics and engineering logic.  Use the same concepts when considering the yahoo / google situation and the REAL need for a backup. Shane, you may not be alone in your support of legal action against Wild Explorer, but I feel that your stance would be in the minority.  I can state that I would NOT support such legal action.  The question is totally hypothetical anyway because no such action can even be taken according to the yahoo group rules which we all agreed to when signing up.   On the contrary, I totally support Wild´s plans for the long term protection of the knowledge obtained in this group.  He should be congratulated for his efforts. Congratulations, Mr Wild Explorer!  Take a bow of shame, shane! Lotsa love to you all, Jim.(Aussie currently trapped in Chile, back to cruising in Mexico in a couple of weeks, steel all the way, baby!) --- On Sun, 3/1/10, SHANE ROTHWELL wrote: From: SHANE ROTHWELL Subject: [origamiboats] Buggering with the Group To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Received: Sunday, 3 January, 2010, 12:38 PM   Wild Wank, I hope Yahoo's lawers DO persue you for your blatant thieft, espcially, as Brent so succinctly put it, you have provided all the evidnece needed to nail you. Why is it, that I feel that I feel I would not be alone in supporting Yahoo in thier claim for dammages? And how can it possibly be denied that there is very clearly intent to profit, from all the advertising on the google site which YOU instigated? Aside from all that, you still have not had the integrity to answer my previous question, and just so it does not get lost in all the bullshit you spew, very specifically: - Do you have a name? (where you from? and you do what? other than spew bullshit?) - where the hell do you get off dictating ANYTHING? SHANE Posted by: "brentswain38" brentswain38@ hotmail.com brentswain38 Sat Jan 2, 2010 12:04 pm (PST) Yahoo's lawyers may want to pay him a visit over copyright infringement. He gave them all the evidence they need. __________________________________________________________________________________ See what's on at the movies in your area. Find out now: http://au.movies.yahoo.com/session-times/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 21921|21867|2010-01-04 03:52:33|kingsknight4life|Re: How to improve (Origamiboats) group goes Live -please give your |--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "scott" wrote: > > It is very disheartening listening to all the anger here. This community is supposedly an open resource for everyone interested in building origami boats in the interests of promoting a cheaper, better way of building. > > Brents book, plans and alex's dvd are proprietary information sold by them. I think everyone respects that, I certainly do. > > The posts made to the forum were made by each of you individually as a question or answer having to do with building origami boats. Did you ask for payment at the time you answered a question or did you do it to freely share your knowledge with someone else that asked a question and also in the hope that those in the future would be able to also view your answer by searching for it. If you didn't intend anyone else to read it then you should have sent a private email to the individual and not posted the information publicly. Do you now at a later date no longer want your posts to be seen by anyone? > > sigh.... > > ... > > My personal opinion is that I give anyone permission to copy my content here in this group in any way that they please and to spread it as far as they can to as many people as they can. Even if someone takes it and profits from it, I don't really care. If it was proprietary information that I used for profit I wouldn't have posted it in a publicly available forum in the first place. > > In Brents place where this is most applicable I think he has profited more by sharing information that he uses to build boats freely than if he had never shared it. For him it is an increadable free advertising medium. Without this free resource that draws thousands of people to it and spreads the word I and many other people would have never heard of origami boats nor would we have ordered brents book or alex's dvd and paid for them. Which I have done with both of them. > Well since EVERYONE else has chimed in I might as well too. I think Scott has summed it up quite well (above). While we (as a group) don't know who WILDEXPLORER is or what his true intentions are I think the possible benefits of having data backup will outweigh the chances of his having less than honorable intensions. My biggest worry is not his "theft" of the material here, which seems to me everyone is sharing anyway. (Thanks to everyone BTW as I appreciate and need all the help I can get with my boatbuilding project.) My worry is that this awesome group of freely shared info and wealth of collective experience is diluted and some how divided, intentionally or not. For those who don't frequent the Metal Boat Society Site, let me give you a bit of background on what happened there and what I fear could happen here. That site was also filled with lots of freely shared info., ideas and encouragement by fellow metal boat builders and then a power struggle ensued. After the fall out there is now TWO groups but the sum of both is NOWHERE near equal to the previous whole. Both groups have suffered for it and the well has dried up. If there were a 100 posts a month (for example) at the old MBS site there is only 10-15 per both sites now. I'm not saying that will happen here but that is my only concern with WILDEXPLORER's "proposal". Aside from that maybe we need Alex back here to get everyone to act a little more civilized? I know most of us by just being members here, are not the most conformative by nature and tend to question things, which is good. But I've never seen this group so riled up since the days of Jeff Halpern or Gregg Elliot. I think the backlash has now passed the point of healthy skepticism and is becoming more detrimental than good. This site has had a lot more posts about how this group should be run lately than boatbuilding. Rowland| 21922|21867|2010-01-04 05:14:51|ric|Re: How to improve (Origamiboats) group goes Live -please give your |Some valid points Rowland; but can we be a little more careful with the choice of words.(Even though they be in parentheses).They do tend to inflame a few. Lets understand that Wild can not steal anything. The only entity that currently has that power is Yahoo. One of the elements to Theft is "the intent to permanently deprive the owner" (us collectively) of the goods; Yahoo can do that at will, merely by closing us down. Secondly lets accept Wilds intents as stated by him. I see no malice. He has offered ownership to Alex if he ever chooses to take it on. In the mean time he is prepared to do an arduous and difficult task. Lets thank him for that. There is no splitting of the group, just mirroring. One benefit will be that all these irrelevant house keeping matters can be discarded. Never to be seen again. So at risk of offending anyone may I suggest we let it lie and let "Wild" get on with it. Maybe even visit his site and make some suggestions has to the format. He has asked for input there, so far there has been little response. regards ric hutchings > Well since EVERYONE else has chimed in I might as well too. I think Scott has summed it up quite well (above). While we (as a group) don't know who WILDEXPLORER is or what his true intentions are I think the possible benefits of having data backup will outweigh the chances of his having less than honorable intensions. > > My biggest worry is not his "theft" of the material here, which seems to me everyone is sharing anyway. Rowland > | 21923|21867|2010-01-04 06:51:04|kingsknight4life|Re: How to improve (Origamiboats) group goes Live -please give your |--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "ric" wrote: > > Some valid points Rowland; > > but can we be a little more careful with the choice of words.(Even though they be in parentheses).They do tend to inflame a few. > " I'm not sure to what you are referring? Rowland| 21924|21850|2010-01-04 10:04:39|Doug Jackson|Re: Buggering with the chain|Thanks Gary I don't think they have a spinner. If they do, it's too small. The problem they talked about was not about getting the galvanizing everywhere, but about keeping the links of the chain from being welded together by the zinc. They said the links could be broken apart, but that would pull the galvanized layer off from a spot on one of the links. Is there a trick to how it's removed or do you just live with a missing or thin spot in the coating? Doug "I began life as a bad boy." --Simon Lake, father of the modern submarine Join "Bad Boy Submarines" at ArgonautJr.com ________________________________ From: Gary H. Lucas To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sat, January 2, 2010 3:36:25 PM Subject: Re: [origamiboats] Re: Buggering with the chain A spinner is a basket centrifuge. It is used when they do bolts and nuts and small parts. The issue is whether the galvanizer has spinner, and how much weight it can hold. A number of galvanizers I have dealt with don't have them. Gary H. Lucas ----- Original Message ----- From: "sae140" To: Sent: Saturday, January 02, 2010 9:57 AM Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Buggering with the chain --- In origamiboats@ yahoogroups. com, Doug Jackson wrote: > > Hey Gary > > I've talked to the galvanizing place down the street from me about > galvanizing chain and they don't know how they would keep the links from > sticking to each other when they pulled them from the tank. How is that > done? > I've heard say that they use a thing called a 'spinner' when galvanising chain. But exactly what a spinner is and how it works, couldn't say. Colin | 21925|21867|2010-01-04 10:13:51|Ben Okopnik|Re: How to improve (Origamiboats) group goes Live -please give your |On Mon, Jan 04, 2010 at 08:49:07AM -0000, kingsknight4life wrote: > > My worry is that this awesome group of freely shared info > and wealth of collective experience is diluted and some how divided, > intentionally or not. For those who don't frequent the Metal Boat > Society Site, let me give you a bit of background on what happened > there and what I fear could happen here. That site was also filled > with lots of freely shared info., ideas and encouragement by fellow > metal boat builders and then a power struggle ensued. After the fall > out there is now TWO groups but the sum of both is NOWHERE near equal > to the previous whole. Both groups have suffered for it and the well > has dried up. If there were a 100 posts a month (for example) at the > old MBS site there is only 10-15 per both sites now. I'm not saying > that will happen here but that is my only concern with WILDEXPLORER's > "pro posal". This is, in fact, the main distinction, and one that a number of people have lost track of: the forum is not the group. *We* are the group - and Neither WildExplorer nor anyone else can do anything to change that, since our participation here is a sum of our individual decisions. Here's a thought experiment for you: if a thousand people started a thousand groups tomorrow, would you or this group be harmed in any way? How about if they all called them "origami boats"? Would anyone here rush off to one of those, and abandon this group forever? At MBS, you got a number of disgruntled members who decided to form another group. This isn't what's happening here - I can't think of a single person here who will now say, "I'm going to stop reading and posting in this group because there's now a Google mirror." Even though it sounds somewhat similar, the one scenario is completely unrelated to the other because it lacks the one and only factor that would make it happen: members who believe that there's an advantage to switching. In fact, the only switching scenario that I see is one where Yahoo shuts this forum down, or where this is seen as a strong possibility by everyone here. At that point, we'd *all* switch over to the Google forum, or (if desired - once we have the archives) to some other forum created for the purpose - since this forum would no longer exist. Then, hopefully, the debt of gratitude to Wild Explorer for doing this work would become apparent. To me, it's apparent - and owed - now. Just to put a little more moxie behind his proposal, I'm going to write a script that will start pulling down the group archives and building my own cache. Once it's collected, I'll create a searchable interface and make it available to the group. This will take a while, since I'm only able to pull down 200-some posts per day for each machine that I have, and there are ~22k posts in the group; given that I have access to 5 machines right now, that means less than 1k posts per day, or just over 3 weeks to get everything. I would, of course, really appreciate help with this: the more people we have doing it, the faster we can build the archive that *we*, as a group, will own (and I will be happy to make that archive available to anyone who asks.) In short, if you have a Linux system and are willing to help, please contact me. If any Windows-knowledgeable people here can write a batch file to pull down a list of sequential URLs via "wget", I'll be happy to coordinate with them as well. -- OKOPNIK CONSULTING Custom Computing Solutions For Your Business Expert-led Training | Dynamic, vital websites | Custom programming 443-250-7895 http://okopnik.com| 21926|21850|2010-01-04 10:28:38|scott|Re: Buggering with the Group|I just wanted to say a little bit about letting our anger mix with our opionions on a topic such as this group or boatbuilding etc.. I'm going to speak about my experiences. I am not going to address this at anyone in specific here. It's not my job or desire to publicly address any individual here on their postings. Many of us have done this in the past there are very few to none of us does this not apply to. A few times in my internet life I have let my anger speak for me and say things on a group that was unwarranted or downright angry and hateful. I think once was even here on the origamiboats group. Given the nature of the internet I can never take back what I said even though I regret it now and it is still out there for the world to read years later. This taught me a hard learned lesson that if I am feeling angry about something and start to write a post that I write it but don't post it. Instead I write out how I feel, anger and all, and then go away and wait till I am no longer angry and then come back and re-read what I wrote. I have never sent one of those messages without editing it or starting over with a totally different tone when I have done this. Even when someone might deserve to have their head smacked for what they are saying or doing it never helps to answer with anger in a forum like this. Anger just creates anger and it cycles and gets more and more overwhelming as each person feeds more insults, accusations, and anger back into the situation. Soon it is no longer about what was being talked about, it is about the anger and the personalities of those saying the hateful stuff. When someone insults you and calls you a name because of something you said it makes you angry and you call them a name or two back. The anger just builds and builds to no good cause or result. Sometimes it even draws third partys into it and it turns into a major group meltdown. I am targeting this at every single member of this list including myself. We all need to sometimes remember that we get out of a conversation what we put into it. If you put anger and insults into it you will get anger and insults out of it. It might not be right but we are all human and tend to strike back when insulted. Lets not even start the insults and anger. Lets try to stick to the facts without talking about the people. We are all human so I'm sure we will all fail of this from time to time, but if we just try and succeed 50% of the time it will be worth while. So the next time your angry and start to say something angry to someone else take a deep breath and take the anger out of your reply. If someone says something angry or insulting to you, take two or three deeps breaths and walk away for a bit and think about whether it is even worth answering. If it's worth answering think about how you can reply while keeping your anger at their insult out of your reply to try and defuse the situation. Very Very Sincerley, scott| 21927|21867|2010-01-04 10:34:02|wild_explorer|Re: How to improve (Origamiboats) group goes Live -please give your |Rowland, I understand, many members see my idea as a threat to the group, and trying to protect this group. That why I am trying to explain my motivation more clearly. Many do not want to see non-boats related posting here ether - they are absolutely right. That why I asked to move this discussion to http://groups.google.com/group/origamiboats-improve Some members want to keep this discussion here - to keep everybody aware what is happening. We still can remind the Group about this discussion (let say ones a week), instead of clogging the group with non-boat related posts. I agree, Yahoo group should stay whole. That why I am NOT accepting any members to Google Origamiboats group. I still might start some sub-groups which not so many members here interested in. Like 3D modeling, and give update summary ones in a while in Yahoo group. Together, we can find the way to keep most people happy and improve input to Yahoo Origamiboats group and spread information about Origamiboats. I believe, all heated discussions in this group were caused by conflict of interests. I do not see any conflict of Interests in my idea. Alex does excellent job running this group. I do not really want to run Google Origamiboats group and will be thankful to Alex if he can take it over. I can run some sub-groups which will not affect Yahoo Origamiboats group in any way. --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "kingsknight4life" wrote: > Aside from that maybe we need Alex back here to get everyone to act a little more civilized? I know most of us by just being members here, are not the most conformative by nature and tend to question things, which is good. But I've never seen this group so riled up since the days of Jeff Halpern or Gregg Elliot. I think the backlash has now passed the point of healthy skepticism and is becoming more detrimental than good. This site has had a lot more posts about how this group should be run lately than boatbuilding. > > Rowland > | 21928|21867|2010-01-04 13:28:03|wild_explorer|Re: How to improve (Origamiboats) group goes Live -please give your |Great idea Ben! Yahoo and Google groups search options are still very limited. It would be nice to have advanced searchable Archive of Origamiboats group. Count on my help (check your e-mail). --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Ben Okopnik wrote: > > Just to put a little more moxie behind his proposal, I'm going to write > a script that will start pulling down the group archives and building my > own cache. Once it's collected, I'll create a searchable interface and > make it available to the group. | 21929|21850|2010-01-04 14:37:26|theboilerflue|Re: Buggering with the chain|Maybe they just run the chain though twice one way then the other thus covering everything... as long as the second dip doesn't re-melt the first coating. Anybody know how it's done for new chain? The problem they talked about was not about getting the galvanizing everywhere, but about keeping the links of the chain from being welded together by the zinc. They said the links could be broken apart, but that would pull the galvanized layer off from a spot on one of the links. > > Is there a trick to how it's removed or do you just live with a missing or thin spot in the coating? > > Doug > "I began life as a bad boy." --Simon Lake, father of the modern submarine > Join "Bad Boy Submarines" at ArgonautJr.com > > > > > ________________________________ > From: Gary H. Lucas > To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Sat, January 2, 2010 3:36:25 PM > Subject: Re: [origamiboats] Re: Buggering with the chain > > > A spinner is a basket centrifuge. It is used when they do bolts and nuts > and small parts. The issue is whether the galvanizer has spinner, and how > much weight it can hold. A number of galvanizers I have dealt with don't > have them. > > Gary H. Lucas > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "sae140" > To: > Sent: Saturday, January 02, 2010 9:57 AM > Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Buggering with the chain > > --- In origamiboats@ yahoogroups. com, Doug Jackson wrote: > > > > Hey Gary > > > > I've talked to the galvanizing place down the street from me about > > galvanizing chain and they don't know how they would keep the links from > > sticking to each other when they pulled them from the tank. How is that > > done? > > > > I've heard say that they use a thing called a 'spinner' when galvanising > chain. But exactly what a spinner is and how it works, couldn't say. > > Colin > | 21930|21867|2010-01-04 14:47:36|theboilerflue|Re: How to improve (Origamiboats) group goes Live -please give your |I'm running on a Linux system (fedora). I don't know much about it but I can usually stumble my way through some simple tasks like that if the script is provided.| 21931|14072|2010-01-04 16:26:27|brentswain38|Re: Eighteen|Sprayfoam hardens instantly. --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "theboilerflue" wrote: > > my thoughts on the headlinner, which i have yet to put up, is that if it kept light since it's curved it'll hold itself in place pretty well pushed up in a curve between the cabinsides. I'm thinking I might even just "glue" it in place with sprayfoam. Just fill a couple of the gaps left in the sprayfoam and plunk the head liner up against the expanding foam. > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Jonathan Stevens" wrote: > > > > I got some time on Eighteen at last. Made and welded in the tabs for the > > bulkheads. Not Brent's way using the actual bulkheads to set the positions > > and then welding them in, but by measurement. > > > > I also got the pilothouse roof beams in place. These go fore and aft. I am > > putting the mast for the steadying sail (remember Eighteen is a motor boat) > > on the pilothouse roof, so having made the template at least a year ago for > > the mast support beam, I finally cut that out and welded that in too. > > > > I've made endless tabs to fix the headlining to; my next job is to decide > > exactly where to put them. > > > > Jonathan. > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > | 21932|21850|2010-01-04 16:28:52|brentswain38|Re: Buggering with the chain|When Canron used to Galvanize chain, they would drag it from the hot zinc thru a pail of water , before piling it up. Links were rarely welded together by zinc, and those that were, were easily broken apart. --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Doug Jackson wrote: > > Thanks Gary > > I don't think they have a spinner. If they do, it's too small. > > The problem they talked about was not about getting the galvanizing everywhere, but about keeping the links of the chain from being welded together by the zinc. They said the links could be broken apart, but that would pull the galvanized layer off from a spot on one of the links. > > Is there a trick to how it's removed or do you just live with a missing or thin spot in the coating? > > Doug > "I began life as a bad boy." --Simon Lake, father of the modern submarine > Join "Bad Boy Submarines" at ArgonautJr.com > > > > > ________________________________ > From: Gary H. Lucas > To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Sat, January 2, 2010 3:36:25 PM > Subject: Re: [origamiboats] Re: Buggering with the chain > > > A spinner is a basket centrifuge. It is used when they do bolts and nuts > and small parts. The issue is whether the galvanizer has spinner, and how > much weight it can hold. A number of galvanizers I have dealt with don't > have them. > > Gary H. Lucas > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "sae140" > To: > Sent: Saturday, January 02, 2010 9:57 AM > Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Buggering with the chain > > --- In origamiboats@ yahoogroups. com, Doug Jackson wrote: > > > > Hey Gary > > > > I've talked to the galvanizing place down the street from me about > > galvanizing chain and they don't know how they would keep the links from > > sticking to each other when they pulled them from the tank. How is that > > done? > > > > I've heard say that they use a thing called a 'spinner' when galvanising > chain. But exactly what a spinner is and how it works, couldn't say. > > Colin > | 21933|21870|2010-01-04 16:37:18|brentswain38|Re: BS36 1985 "Silver Moon" for sale in WA|We put a proper wheelhouse on her. When we were gone, the owner cut it of to make it look "Yachtie" then spent the next 26 years freezing his ass off in an open cockpit. --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "theboilerflue" wrote: > > looks like someone went to great length to make that awesome boat look just like a regular yacht. > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "wild_explorer" wrote: > > > > I was searching WEB for Brent's boats and found this one for sale in WA > > > > http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listing/boatFullDetails.jsp?boat_id=2101280&ybw=&units=Feet¤cy=USD&access=Public&listing_id=64229&url= > > > > Has specs and pictures. > > > | 21934|21888|2010-01-04 16:42:47|brentswain38|Re: Chain|Regalvanizing chain was common when energy was cheaper. I've had it done before. Slightly cheaper than buying new chain now, but not by much. Comparison shop. --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, SHANE ROTHWELL wrote: > > Haiden, > > I have no idea how to recoat/reprotect the chain as I was told some time ago that re-galvalizing could not be done. Obviously others have more experience in this regard & you got a pretty good responce eh > > But the CLR works a treat for removal of rust if you want the simple, on deck method, but use a plastic bucket to do it in. No idea how enviromentally good/bad the stuf is tho. > > Shane > > > __________________________________________________________________ > The new Internet Explorer® 8 - Faster, safer, easier. Optimized for Yahoo! Get it Now for Free! at http://downloads.yahoo.com/ca/internetexplorer/ > | 21935|21861|2010-01-04 16:48:49|brentswain38|Re: Anchor Well Ventilator|Lately I have been setting the vent off centre, under the fixed part of the anchor well lid. Gets it out of the way, and you don't have to go the thru the mooring bit with your reddi rod. Clamping a piece of innertube over the outside acts like a check valve, if you forget to close it, and get a dollop of water in there. Putting a piece of ss pipe, cut on a 45, pointing aft acts like a self bailer on the drain. The only time Evan ever sailed his 31 outside Nanaimo harbour , he sailed with out any kind of anchor well cover, nor any closure on the 6 inch vent . It blew NW 25 knots, which scared the shit out of him , and water came in thru the open anchor well and open vent. He decided then and there that an anchor well vent is a bad idea because if you do nothing to cover either it or the anchor well, water will come in. Duuhhhh!!! The ends of a boat are a dead end ,and without the vent it can get quite musty there. The anchor well vent lets air circulate , regardless of how rainy it is outside, a huge benefit. One boat Evan built, without any ventilation, almost killed a couple sleeping aboard. --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Jonathan Stevens" wrote: > > Thanks, Brent; I think I'll do just that. > > Jonathan. > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > | 21936|21850|2010-01-04 16:53:05|markh|Re: Buggering with the chain|the only problem i could see with that is that the metal has to be at least 800 degrees before the zinc adheres adequately--or so i was told--so was just thinking that is a pretty hot item to handle and drag through water--but i am sure they have there ways. great suggestion. ----- Original Message ----- From: brentswain38 To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, January 04, 2010 1:28 PM Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Buggering with the chain When Canron used to Galvanize chain, they would drag it from the hot zinc thru a pail of water , before piling it up. Links were rarely welded together by zinc, and those that were, were easily broken apart. --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Doug Jackson wrote: > > Thanks Gary > > I don't think they have a spinner. If they do, it's too small. > > The problem they talked about was not about getting the galvanizing everywhere, but about keeping the links of the chain from being welded together by the zinc. They said the links could be broken apart, but that would pull the galvanized layer off from a spot on one of the links. > > Is there a trick to how it's removed or do you just live with a missing or thin spot in the coating? > > Doug > "I began life as a bad boy." --Simon Lake, father of the modern submarine > Join "Bad Boy Submarines" at ArgonautJr.com > > > > > ________________________________ > From: Gary H. Lucas > To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Sat, January 2, 2010 3:36:25 PM > Subject: Re: [origamiboats] Re: Buggering with the chain > > > A spinner is a basket centrifuge. It is used when they do bolts and nuts > and small parts. The issue is whether the galvanizer has spinner, and how > much weight it can hold. A number of galvanizers I have dealt with don't > have them. > > Gary H. Lucas > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "sae140" > To: > Sent: Saturday, January 02, 2010 9:57 AM > Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Buggering with the chain > > --- In origamiboats@ yahoogroups. com, Doug Jackson wrote: > > > > Hey Gary > > > > I've talked to the galvanizing place down the street from me about > > galvanizing chain and they don't know how they would keep the links from > > sticking to each other when they pulled them from the tank. How is that > > done? > > > > I've heard say that they use a thing called a 'spinner' when galvanising > chain. But exactly what a spinner is and how it works, couldn't say. > > Colin > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 21937|21867|2010-01-04 22:44:05|Ben Okopnik|Re: How to improve (Origamiboats) group goes Live -please give your |On Mon, Jan 04, 2010 at 07:46:46PM -0000, theboilerflue wrote: > I'm running on a Linux system (fedora). I don't know much about it but > I can usually stumble my way through some simple tasks like that if > the script is provided. I've just added you to the schedule; please take a look at http://okopnik.com/misc/sched.html for the script and all the details. Thanks for participating! -- OKOPNIK CONSULTING Custom Computing Solutions For Your Business Expert-led Training | Dynamic, vital websites | Custom programming 443-250-7895 http://okopnik.com| 21938|21850|2010-01-05 03:55:32|Denis Buggy|Re: Buggering with the Group|Scott has said all that is sensible to say on this topic for me ,however on reviewing my post it reads very cold and I refer to an " opportunity and somebody " however I do not thank or acknowledge wild explorer or mention that I would be willing to contribute something to the cost to who ever orgamiboats as a group wished to deal with in order to archive this site . regards Denis Buggy [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]| 21939|21850|2010-01-05 12:39:54|Doug Jackson|Re: Buggering with the chain|Cool. Thanks Brent Doug "I began life as a bad boy." --Simon Lake, father of the modern submarine Join "Bad Boy Submarines" at ArgonautJr.com ________________________________ From: brentswain38 To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Sent: Mon, January 4, 2010 3:28:39 PM Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Buggering with the chain When Canron used to Galvanize chain, they would drag it from the hot zinc thru a pail of water , before piling it up. Links were rarely welded together by zinc, and those that were, were easily broken apart. --- In origamiboats@ yahoogroups. com, Doug Jackson wrote: > > Thanks Gary > > I don't think they have a spinner. If they do, it's too small. > > The problem they talked about was not about getting the galvanizing everywhere, but about keeping the links of the chain from being welded together by the zinc. They said the links could be broken apart, but that would pull the galvanized layer off from a spot on one of the links. > > Is there a trick to how it's removed or do you just live with a missing or thin spot in the coating? > > Doug > "I began life as a bad boy." --Simon Lake, father of the modern submarine > Join "Bad Boy Submarines" at ArgonautJr.com > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > From: Gary H. Lucas > To: origamiboats@ yahoogroups. com > Sent: Sat, January 2, 2010 3:36:25 PM > Subject: Re: [origamiboats] Re: Buggering with the chain > > > A spinner is a basket centrifuge. It is used when they do bolts and nuts > and small parts. The issue is whether the galvanizer has spinner, and how > much weight it can hold. A number of galvanizers I have dealt with don't > have them. > > Gary H. Lucas > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "sae140" > To: > Sent: Saturday, January 02, 2010 9:57 AM > Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Buggering with the chain > > --- In origamiboats@ yahoogroups. com, Doug Jackson wrote: > > > > Hey Gary > > > > I've talked to the galvanizing place down the street from me about > > galvanizing chain and they don't know how they would keep the links from > > sticking to each other when they pulled them from the tank. How is that > > done? > > > > I've heard say that they use a thing called a 'spinner' when galvanising > chain. But exactly what a spinner is and how it works, couldn't say. > > Colin > | 21940|21850|2010-01-05 12:59:02|edward|Re: Buggering with the chain|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "theboilerflue" wrote: > > Maybe they just run the chain though twice one way then the other thus covering everything... as long as the second dip doesn't re-melt the first coating. Anybody know how it's done for new chain? Hi Haidan, If one googles hot dip galvanising centrifuge one see the machines they use. They are also used for spinning the galv out of bolt threads and similar. Regards, Ted| 21941|21941|2010-01-05 13:03:40|edward|12 volt microwave|Does anyone have experiences or advice on 12V microwaves suitable for use in the galley? Regards, Ted| 21942|21942|2010-01-05 13:05:23|edward|Wringer|Does anyone have any experience or advise on a suitable hand wringer for clothes suitable for use on a boat? One that won't rust. Regards, Ted| 21943|21850|2010-01-05 13:15:22|edward|Re: Buggering with the Group|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Denis Buggy" wrote: > > > Scott has said all that is sensible to say on this topic for me , For me too Dennis. My view on copyright is that a post on a web forum is in the public domain, very much so, and therefore all copyright has been given up. Regards, Ted| 21944|21942|2010-01-05 14:58:43|markh|Wringer|The handpowered unit i was talking about is reviewed at http://www.testfreaks.com/blog/review/wonderwash/ It has an amazingly original name--"Wonderwash" snort--I think the wringer centrifuge may be seperate. Lots of entries under Wonderwash--mabe use as a potatoe washer too?? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]| 21945|21850|2010-01-05 15:03:28|David Frantz|Re: Buggering with the Group|Actually everything you write has a copyright on it. It is possible that the policies of a group like this will require that you give up your copyright to use the service. I don't know what Yahoos policy is and frankly don't care. My singular objection is that splitting people between forums lessens the experience on both forums If people want to make sure files they up load to the forum remain freely available the should look at attaching a specific license that will allow free circulation. Something like Creative Commons. Unfortunately there is a movement afoot to change the international copyright law in a manner that really does serve the good of society. Recent changes are already pretty bad, why somebody needs copyright protection beyound the grave is a mystery to me. David A Frantz websterindustro@... Sent from my iPhone. On Jan 5, 2010, at 1:10 PM, edward wrote: > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Denis Buggy" wrote: >> >> >> Scott has said all that is sensible to say on this topic for me , > > For me too Dennis. My view on copyright is that a post on a web > forum is in the public domain, very much so, and therefore all > copyright has been given up. > > Regards, > Ted > > > > ------------------------------------ > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.comYahoo > ! Groups Links > > > | 21946|21941|2010-01-05 15:11:52|arctichusky44|Re: 12 volt microwave|Hi Ted, I used to have one a boat years ago,it was a small 700 watt model but using it was the equivalent of cranking the engine starter continuously for the entire cooking time. The power consumption is about double the rating on the mircrowave,ie, a 500 watt unit can use up to 1000 watts of juice. Regarding a clothes wringer , look at the ones on www.survivalunlimited.com . Pricey units! cheers,Frank| 21947|21942|2010-01-05 15:25:30|Norm Moore|Re: Wringer|Here's a link to wringers that are used in car washes http://www.dynajet.com/html/commercial_wringer.html Norm Moore 559-645-5314 --- On Tue, 1/5/10, edward wrote: From: edward Subject: [origamiboats] Wringer To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, January 5, 2010, 10:04 AM   Does anyone have any experience or advise on a suitable hand wringer for clothes suitable for use on a boat? One that won't rust. Regards, Ted [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 21948|21850|2010-01-05 16:55:10|Ben Okopnik|Re: Buggering with the Group|On Tue, Jan 05, 2010 at 03:03:06PM -0500, David Frantz wrote: > Actually everything you write has a copyright on it. Actually, it doesn't. Neither facts nor ideas are protected - only original ways of expressing them. Even then, "fair use" explicitly defines (using about half of the copyright statute to do so) a huge body of exceptions. For example, uses that advance education, criticism, and scholarship are explicitly excluded (this would be where search engines - and, by extension, this searchable archive project that we're working on - come in.) There *is* an implicit copyright on creative work, but it is, except in commercial situations, all but unenforcible: unless you can prove monetary damages, you have no prosecutable case. You'd also have to show that an email sent to a public list - one that usually cites another email, which, by your reasoning, would make the plaintiff guilty of the very thing he's complaining about - fits the definition of "creative work". Want to wrestle that one out in court? Especially since you'd have the entire US industrial complex (and a number of others) funding the opposition, since they would become liable for huge damages if your version won? Good luck. I agree that a lawyer who wanted to make your life hell could theoretically try to prosecute you under this head. But then, a lawyer who wanted to make your life hell would find any one of a million ways to do it, so it's not a salient issue. > Unfortunately there is a movement afoot to change the international > copyright law in a manner that really does serve the good of society. > Recent changes are already pretty bad, why somebody needs copyright > protection beyound the grave is a mystery to me. See Lawrence Lessig's brilliant presentation for an excellent answer. Now *there* is a lawyer I can respect. http://randomfoo.net/oscon/2002/lessig/free.html -- OKOPNIK CONSULTING Custom Computing Solutions For Your Business Expert-led Training | Dynamic, vital websites | Custom programming 443-250-7895 http://okopnik.com| 21949|21850|2010-01-05 17:23:40|edward|Re: Buggering with the Group|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, David Frantz wrote: > > Actually everything you write has a copyright on it. > > It is possible that the policies of a group like this will require > that you give up your copyright to use the service. I don't know what > Yahoos policy is and frankly don't care. My singular objection is > that splitting people between forums lessens the experience on both > forums David, In practical terms I cannot see how it would be possible to protect ones copyright after posting on the world wide web. I agree with your comment about splitting people between forums lessens the experience on both forums. I used to subscribe to the MBS, it had some very good posts, but gave it up several years ago. I have joined several Yahoo Groups relating to boats but now only visit the junkrig forum and this one. I do not have the time for them all and so I enjoy the variety of people on this open forum. Regards, Ted| 21950|21950|2010-01-05 17:39:54|yvesmariedetanton|Professional Boatyard to build an "Imagiro" Boat.|For a client, I am looking for a professional operation to build a 43.5' cutter. Preferably on East Coast US. Or Canada. I am talking about all the metal work.| 21951|21850|2010-01-05 17:51:15|brentswain38|Re: Buggering with the Group|While his copying the groups messages may be controversial, I think wild explorer makes a good point as to our vulnerability to changes by yahoo, and we should definitely keep an eye out for options, should Yahoo get hard to deal with. When a cat strolls across the yard, he constantly keeps an eye on an escape route, so if the pit bull next door attacks, he doesn't have to make instant decision on where to run to. He already has a plan. We should too. For the moment, staying where we are is the best plan , but we should constantly keep an eye out for options. --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "edward" wrote: > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, David Frantz wrote: > > > > Actually everything you write has a copyright on it. > > > > It is possible that the policies of a group like this will require > > that you give up your copyright to use the service. I don't know what > > Yahoos policy is and frankly don't care. My singular objection is > > that splitting people between forums lessens the experience on both > > forums > > > David, > > In practical terms I cannot see how it would be possible to protect ones copyright after posting on the world wide web. > > I agree with your comment about splitting people between forums lessens the experience on both forums. I used to subscribe to the MBS, it had some very good posts, but gave it up several years ago. I have joined several Yahoo Groups relating to boats but now only visit the junkrig forum and this one. I do not have the time for them all and so I enjoy the variety of people on this open forum. > > Regards, > > Ted > | 21952|21850|2010-01-05 17:51:57|brentswain38|Re: Buggering with the chain|They tie a piece of wire to the end before galvanizing it and pick up the wire with a pair of pliers to drag it out of the pot, and thru the water. Once the first part is cooled by dragging it thru the water they can grab it by hand. --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "markh" wrote: > > the only problem i could see with that is that the metal has to be at least 800 degrees before the zinc adheres adequately--or so i was told--so was just thinking that is a pretty hot item to handle and drag through water--but i am sure they have there ways. great suggestion. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: brentswain38 > To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Monday, January 04, 2010 1:28 PM > Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Buggering with the chain > > > > When Canron used to Galvanize chain, they would drag it from the hot zinc thru a pail of water , before piling it up. Links were rarely welded together by zinc, and those that were, were easily broken apart. > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Doug Jackson wrote: > > > > Thanks Gary > > > > I don't think they have a spinner. If they do, it's too small. > > > > The problem they talked about was not about getting the galvanizing everywhere, but about keeping the links of the chain from being welded together by the zinc. They said the links could be broken apart, but that would pull the galvanized layer off from a spot on one of the links. > > > > Is there a trick to how it's removed or do you just live with a missing or thin spot in the coating? > > > > Doug > > "I began life as a bad boy." --Simon Lake, father of the modern submarine > > Join "Bad Boy Submarines" at ArgonautJr.com > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > From: Gary H. Lucas > > To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Sat, January 2, 2010 3:36:25 PM > > Subject: Re: [origamiboats] Re: Buggering with the chain > > > > > > A spinner is a basket centrifuge. It is used when they do bolts and nuts > > and small parts. The issue is whether the galvanizer has spinner, and how > > much weight it can hold. A number of galvanizers I have dealt with don't > > have them. > > > > Gary H. Lucas > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "sae140" > > To: > > Sent: Saturday, January 02, 2010 9:57 AM > > Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Buggering with the chain > > > > --- In origamiboats@ yahoogroups. com, Doug Jackson wrote: > > > > > > Hey Gary > > > > > > I've talked to the galvanizing place down the street from me about > > > galvanizing chain and they don't know how they would keep the links from > > > sticking to each other when they pulled them from the tank. How is that > > > done? > > > > > > > I've heard say that they use a thing called a 'spinner' when galvanising > > chain. But exactly what a spinner is and how it works, couldn't say. > > > > Colin > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > | 21953|21850|2010-01-05 17:54:04|brentswain38|Re: Buggering with the chain|The second dip always melts the first dip. That is why "double dip" is bullshit advertising. With new chain they simply pickle it then galvanize it. --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "theboilerflue" wrote: > > Maybe they just run the chain though twice one way then the other thus covering everything... as long as the second dip doesn't re-melt the first coating. Anybody know how it's done for new chain? > > > > The problem they talked about was not about getting the galvanizing everywhere, but about keeping the links of the chain from being welded together by the zinc. They said the links could be broken apart, but that would pull the galvanized layer off from a spot on one of the links. > > > > Is there a trick to how it's removed or do you just live with a missing or thin spot in the coating? > > > > Doug > > "I began life as a bad boy." --Simon Lake, father of the modern submarine > > Join "Bad Boy Submarines" at ArgonautJr.com > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > From: Gary H. Lucas > > To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Sat, January 2, 2010 3:36:25 PM > > Subject: Re: [origamiboats] Re: Buggering with the chain > > > > > > A spinner is a basket centrifuge. It is used when they do bolts and nuts > > and small parts. The issue is whether the galvanizer has spinner, and how > > much weight it can hold. A number of galvanizers I have dealt with don't > > have them. > > > > Gary H. Lucas > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "sae140" > > To: > > Sent: Saturday, January 02, 2010 9:57 AM > > Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Buggering with the chain > > > > --- In origamiboats@ yahoogroups. com, Doug Jackson wrote: > > > > > > Hey Gary > > > > > > I've talked to the galvanizing place down the street from me about > > > galvanizing chain and they don't know how they would keep the links from > > > sticking to each other when they pulled them from the tank. How is that > > > done? > > > > > > > I've heard say that they use a thing called a 'spinner' when galvanising > > chain. But exactly what a spinner is and how it works, couldn't say. > > > > Colin > > > | 21954|21850|2010-01-05 17:54:40|brentswain38|Re: Buggering with the chain|Haidan If you are sending anything in for galvanizing, let me know. They have a minimum charge, so we may as well weld up some anchors and send them in too. --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "theboilerflue" wrote: > > Maybe they just run the chain though twice one way then the other thus covering everything... as long as the second dip doesn't re-melt the first coating. Anybody know how it's done for new chain? > > > > The problem they talked about was not about getting the galvanizing everywhere, but about keeping the links of the chain from being welded together by the zinc. They said the links could be broken apart, but that would pull the galvanized layer off from a spot on one of the links. > > > > Is there a trick to how it's removed or do you just live with a missing or thin spot in the coating? > > > > Doug > > "I began life as a bad boy." --Simon Lake, father of the modern submarine > > Join "Bad Boy Submarines" at ArgonautJr.com > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > From: Gary H. Lucas > > To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Sat, January 2, 2010 3:36:25 PM > > Subject: Re: [origamiboats] Re: Buggering with the chain > > > > > > A spinner is a basket centrifuge. It is used when they do bolts and nuts > > and small parts. The issue is whether the galvanizer has spinner, and how > > much weight it can hold. A number of galvanizers I have dealt with don't > > have them. > > > > Gary H. Lucas > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "sae140" > > To: > > Sent: Saturday, January 02, 2010 9:57 AM > > Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Buggering with the chain > > > > --- In origamiboats@ yahoogroups. com, Doug Jackson wrote: > > > > > > Hey Gary > > > > > > I've talked to the galvanizing place down the street from me about > > > galvanizing chain and they don't know how they would keep the links from > > > sticking to each other when they pulled them from the tank. How is that > > > done? > > > > > > > I've heard say that they use a thing called a 'spinner' when galvanising > > chain. But exactly what a spinner is and how it works, couldn't say. > > > > Colin > > > | 21955|21942|2010-01-05 17:57:22|brentswain38|Re: Wringer|Most cruisers just take the clothes for a turn around the solid ss lifelines and give them a twist. Does the same thing, and doesn't rust. Less effort too. --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "edward" wrote: > > Does anyone have any experience or advise on a suitable hand wringer for clothes suitable for use on a boat? One that won't rust. > > Regards, > Ted > | 21956|21850|2010-01-05 18:07:14|brentswain38|Re: Buggering with the Group|Does this also put patent ideas into public domain ?I have some boxing equipment that makes low blows a complete non issue. If I can't afford a patent, I'm tempted to blow it into public domain, so no one else can monopolise the idea ( and save some boxers some severe pain) --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "edward" wrote: > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Denis Buggy" wrote: > > > > > > Scott has said all that is sensible to say on this topic for me , > > For me too Dennis. My view on copyright is that a post on a web forum is in the public domain, very much so, and therefore all copyright has been given up. > > Regards, > Ted > | 21957|21850|2010-01-05 18:49:30|ric|Re: Buggering with the Group|Brent. Patents are only for entities that have huge financial backing. Firstly they cost a lot to set up and then more to apply to other jurisdictions (each having a cost). Beyond that it is only countries that have signed and recognise patents, (or where the patent is registered) that are bound by them.(most third world countries haven't). To fight a breach of patent is way beyond the individual. ric hutchings --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "brentswain38" wrote: > > Does this also put patent ideas into public domain ?I have some boxing equipment that makes low blows a complete non issue. If I can't afford a patent, I'm tempted to blow it into public domain, so no one else can monopolise the idea ( and save some boxers some severe pain) > | 21958|21850|2010-01-05 18:55:11|Ben Okopnik|Re: Buggering with the Group|On Tue, Jan 05, 2010 at 08:55:20AM -0000, Denis Buggy wrote: > > Scott has said all that is sensible to say on this topic for me > ,however on reviewing my post it reads very cold and I refer to an " > opportunity and somebody " however I do not thank or acknowledge > wild explorer or mention that I would be willing to contribute > something to the cost to who ever orgamiboats as a group wished > to deal with in order to archive this site . regards Denis Buggy Denis, your offer is appreciated - but the only "cost" associated with this project is the time that I and the other volunteers are putting into it. The best way to contribute is to add your own efforts to the project. I've been looking into what it would take to make this work under Windows, and unfortunately, there's no way that I can find to do it easily. If any Windows-only folks are really hyped on helping, I'll write up the (rather clunky and manual) process and do some programming, and you can join the downloading team. :) -- OKOPNIK CONSULTING Custom Computing Solutions For Your Business Expert-led Training | Dynamic, vital websites | Custom programming 443-250-7895 http://okopnik.com| 21959|21850|2010-01-06 04:39:02|edward|Re: Buggering with Patents|Hi Brent, In the UK if it is already in the public domain then it cannot be patented. I think that it may be different in the US and don't know about Canada. In the UK one can right apply for a patent oneself but the trick is to write it so that it doesn't infringe an existing patent or prior knowledge and it cannot be circumvented by a near copy or future developments. Some public libraries keep copies of patent applications and existing patents and one can view them. The UK Patent Office has booklets on how to apply for them. The actual fees are not that expensive, but to pay a Patent Agent to write one up and then to translate it for worldwide patent applications is. An interesting law case in the UK involved a young man who had a business making and selling windsurfers. A US company who also made windsurfers took him to court in the UK for infringing their patent. I assume that they held a UK patent. However the young man had a photo of him aged 13 on his first windsurfer at a public beach and this date was prior to the US companies application for a UK patent. Therefore, even though the UK Patent Office had granted the patent the case was thrown out due to the invention already being in the public domain. I have wasted a considerable amount of time applying for and being granted UK patents all to no avail, basically because the ideas were not good enough, although after I let one expire it was cited in a subsequent application as prior knowledge. Regards, Ted --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "brentswain38" wrote: > > Does this also put patent ideas into public domain ?I have some boxing equipment that makes low blows a complete non issue. If I can't afford a patent, I'm tempted to blow it into public domain, so no one else can monopolise the idea ( and save some boxers some severe pain) > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "edward" wrote: > > > > > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Denis Buggy" wrote: > > > > > > > > > Scott has said all that is sensible to say on this topic for me , > > > > For me too Dennis. My view on copyright is that a post on a web forum is in the public domain, very much so, and therefore all copyright has been given up. > > > > Regards, > > Ted > > > | 21960|21850|2010-01-06 05:38:39|sae140|Re: Buggering with the Group|--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "edward" wrote: > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Denis Buggy" wrote: > > > > > > Scott has said all that is sensible to say on this topic for me , > > For me too Dennis. My view on copyright is that a post on a web forum is in the public domain, very much so, and therefore all copyright has been given up. > > Regards, > Ted Under Google Groups' terms and conditions, a licence is issued for the download of a single copy of content for 'private and personal use'. This wording suggests to me that Google consider this to be something of a grey area. Google have also recognised that not everyone will want their posts to be added to Google's huge searchable archive, and so have created a 'non-archive facility' where, by the inclusion of a specific header, a post will then not be archived - a process which otherwise takes place every 7 days. As far as I can tell, this opt-out facility is not extended to a message feed from sources originating outside of Google Groups. Colin| 21961|21850|2010-01-06 15:51:40|wild_explorer|Re: Buggering with the Group|Alex(moderator)! Please read!!! I did some research and was reading about Internet group's management. There ARE some real problems with some popular groups data misuse. It is a big problem, and no real solution so far. To Alex (moderator of this group): I ASK YOU again TO BE THE MANAGER of Google group, to be sure THERE IS NO ANY POSSIBLE MISUSE of Yahoo Origamiboats group's data. I need your cooperation to expand Origamiboats group's functions. As I said before, I have no commercial or harmful to this group interests. Main(mirror) Google group will have full access by MANAGERS ONLY (who will be only the members of the group). For everybody else it will be "READ ONLY" group with no membership required. If somebody wants to reply to post, they will do it in Yahoo group. This way, we can keep Google group "low maintenance". Yahoo Origamiboats group MUST stay whole for the good of the group.| 21962|21850|2010-01-06 16:30:25|brentswain38|Re: Buggering with Patents|Sounds like more hassle than it's worth . Think I'll just sell one to my trainer for a dollar and thus blow it into public domain for good. --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "edward" wrote: > > > Hi Brent, > > In the UK if it is already in the public domain then it cannot be patented. I think that it may be different in the US and don't know about Canada. In the UK one can right apply for a patent oneself but the trick is to write it so that it doesn't infringe an existing patent or prior knowledge and it cannot be circumvented by a near copy or future developments. Some public libraries keep copies of patent applications and existing patents and one can view them. The UK Patent Office has booklets on how to apply for them. The actual fees are not that expensive, but to pay a Patent Agent to write one up and then to translate it for worldwide patent applications is. > > An interesting law case in the UK involved a young man who had a business making and selling windsurfers. A US company who also made windsurfers took him to court in the UK for infringing their patent. I assume that they held a UK patent. However the young man had a photo of him aged 13 on his first windsurfer at a public beach and this date was prior to the US companies application for a UK patent. Therefore, even though the UK Patent Office had granted the patent the case was thrown out due to the invention already being in the public domain. I have wasted a considerable amount of time applying for and being granted UK patents all to no avail, basically because the ideas were not good enough, although after I let one expire it was cited in a subsequent application as prior knowledge. > > Regards, > Ted > > > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "brentswain38" wrote: > > > > Does this also put patent ideas into public domain ?I have some boxing equipment that makes low blows a complete non issue. If I can't afford a patent, I'm tempted to blow it into public domain, so no one else can monopolise the idea ( and save some boxers some severe pain) > > > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "edward" wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Denis Buggy" wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Scott has said all that is sensible to say on this topic for me , > > > > > > For me too Dennis. My view on copyright is that a post on a web forum is in the public domain, very much so, and therefore all copyright has been given up. > > > > > > Regards, > > > Ted > > > > > > | 21963|21850|2010-01-06 19:31:30|kingsknight4life|Re: Buggering with Patents|"--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "brentswain38" wrote: > > Sounds like more hassle than it's worth . Think I'll just sell one to my trainer for a dollar and thus blow it into public domain for good. "> Brent, You got to learn to quit punching people below the belt. ;0) Rowland| 21964|21850|2010-01-06 22:22:18|wild_explorer|Re: Buggering with Patents|I believe, there should be something similar to "Open source license" (which is for software only). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_source_license The main Idea of such license was to start a project under "Open source license", use input of many people, make good product. Such license prevents somebody to claim or patent part(or all) of the work. It is kind of "half" solution. Another way could be personal copyrights (not patenting). --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "brentswain38" wrote: > > Sounds like more hassle than it's worth . Think I'll just sell one to my trainer for a dollar and thus blow it into public domain for good. | 21965|21867|2010-01-06 22:42:01|wild_explorer|Re: How to improve (Origamiboats) group goes Live -please give your |I was comparing Yahoo and Google groups' interface. Google is more "mobile-device" friendly. Take a look at this test thread: http://groups.google.com/group/origamiboats-improve/t/24f8c1b3096b3be8 Not much to read there. Just take a look on interface and what we can do (there are 2 links for internal "test" group pages in the messages and image attached to the post). To: Yahoo group members with mobile devices. Could you test how it works, please? You can post your reply in this group, OR if you want, post your replies in Google thread - you are welcome (but it might be long delay when your reply become visible). Yahoo group pretty easy to read on a computer, but it is a pain on mobile device. Google group service looks MUCH better for mobile devices. It has text links and "on demand" pictures. Kind of "back to Unix type" groups. Will be very handy for slow speed networks too. With recent appearance of Google on a smart cellphone market, Google will improve its services for mobility. I will, probably, concentrate to make Google Origamiboats group compatible for mobile devices. Yahoo Origamiboats group looks good enough for Web.| 21966|21867|2010-01-07 10:03:15|Aaron Williams|Google take over|This was posted on one of my other groups, Sure sounded like something is amiss in Yahoo groups. Anyone else see it in their other groups? Aaron     I just cant stand Yahoo groups. > > Its so archaic how its set up. No offense to anyone personally. > > Forums just make so much more sense, and are so much easier to navigate the way they are setup. > > You dont get an email from EVER SINGLE bit of activity on the site (or one email for every 25 bits of activity). Just one plain and simple email from threads you have subscribed to. > > > > And you dont have to search your ass off to find your last post, or click, read, and back, click, read, and back, click, read, and back, just to read all the replys to your own post. etc etc. > > > > Is it for security (keeping away non PlasmaCam users)? You can still be just as secure with a forum. > > > > Or am i just missing something? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]| 21967|21850|2010-01-07 15:07:05|brentswain38|Re: Buggering with the Group|I went back to page one and everything came up, no problem. So what's the problem? --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, David Frantz wrote: > > Actually everything you write has a copyright on it. > > It is possible that the policies of a group like this will require > that you give up your copyright to use the service. I don't know what > Yahoos policy is and frankly don't care. My singular objection is > that splitting people between forums lessens the experience on both > forums > > If people want to make sure files they up load to the forum remain > freely available the should look at attaching a specific license that > will allow free circulation. Something like Creative Commons. > > Unfortunately there is a movement afoot to change the international > copyright law in a manner that really does serve the good of society. > Recent changes are already pretty bad, why somebody needs copyright > protection beyound the grave is a mystery to me. > > David A Frantz > > websterindustro@... > Sent from my iPhone. > > On Jan 5, 2010, at 1:10 PM, edward wrote: > > > > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Denis Buggy" wrote: > >> > >> > >> Scott has said all that is sensible to say on this topic for me , > > > > For me too Dennis. My view on copyright is that a post on a web > > forum is in the public domain, very much so, and therefore all > > copyright has been given up. > > > > Regards, > > Ted > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@... > > ! Groups Links > > > > > > > | 21968|21850|2010-01-07 15:08:21|brentswain38|Re: Buggering with Patents|Every time I see a boxer double up in pain after being hit below the belt I think "I could have prevented that." My trainer spends a lot of time training in Thailand, so if he takes it there, they will quickly flood the world with copies. --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "kingsknight4life" wrote: > > > > "--- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "brentswain38" wrote: > > > > Sounds like more hassle than it's worth . Think I'll just sell one to my trainer for a dollar and thus blow it into public domain for good. > "> > > Brent, > You got to learn to quit punching people below the belt. ;0) > > Rowland > | 21969|21850|2010-01-07 17:47:54|theboilerflue|Re: Buggering with the chain|Well in less there's a bank error in my favour I won't be re-galvanizing anything soon, I think I just stick with my old rusty chain there's still lots of metal there --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "brentswain38" wrote: > > Haidan > If you are sending anything in for galvanizing, let me know. They have a minimum charge, so we may as well weld up some anchors and send them in too. > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "theboilerflue" wrote: > > > > Maybe they just run the chain though twice one way then the other thus covering everything... as long as the second dip doesn't re-melt the first coating. Anybody know how it's done for new chain? > > > > > > > > The problem they talked about was not about getting the galvanizing everywhere, but about keeping the links of the chain from being welded together by the zinc. They said the links could be broken apart, but that would pull the galvanized layer off from a spot on one of the links. > > > > > > Is there a trick to how it's removed or do you just live with a missing or thin spot in the coating? > > > > > > Doug > > > "I began life as a bad boy." --Simon Lake, father of the modern submarine > > > Join "Bad Boy Submarines" at ArgonautJr.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > From: Gary H. Lucas > > > To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > > > Sent: Sat, January 2, 2010 3:36:25 PM > > > Subject: Re: [origamiboats] Re: Buggering with the chain > > > > > > > > > A spinner is a basket centrifuge. It is used when they do bolts and nuts > > > and small parts. The issue is whether the galvanizer has spinner, and how > > > much weight it can hold. A number of galvanizers I have dealt with don't > > > have them. > > > > > > Gary H. Lucas > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "sae140" > > > To: > > > Sent: Saturday, January 02, 2010 9:57 AM > > > Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Buggering with the chain > > > > > > --- In origamiboats@ yahoogroups. com, Doug Jackson wrote: > > > > > > > > Hey Gary > > > > > > > > I've talked to the galvanizing place down the street from me about > > > > galvanizing chain and they don't know how they would keep the links from > > > > sticking to each other when they pulled them from the tank. How is that > > > > done? > > > > > > > > > > I've heard say that they use a thing called a 'spinner' when galvanising > > > chain. But exactly what a spinner is and how it works, couldn't say. > > > > > > Colin > > > > > > | 21970|21941|2010-01-07 17:53:23|theboilerflue|Re: 12 volt microwave|I've heard recently that they just discover some new fangled "plasma" energy souce by microwaving some radioactive stuff and aparently if you stick a short lighted candle along with some burnt tooth picks inside a microwave it'll produce something similar, maybe you could harness that to power your boat, it would certainly cut down on fuel costs and get rid of the stern tube - so one less hole in the boat ;) --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "arctichusky44" wrote: > > > > Hi Ted, I used to have one a boat years ago,it was a small 700 watt model but using it was the equivalent of cranking the engine starter continuously for the entire cooking time. The power consumption is about double the rating on the mircrowave,ie, a 500 watt unit can use up to 1000 watts of juice. > Regarding a clothes wringer , look at the ones on www.survivalunlimited.com . Pricey units! > cheers,Frank > | 21971|21850|2010-01-07 21:10:22|David Frantz|Re: Buggering with the chain|Isn't that like winning the lottery. In either case it has never happened to me. David A Frantz websterindustro@... Sent from my iPhone. On Jan 7, 2010, at 5:47 PM, theboilerflue wrote: > Well in less there's a bank error in my favour I won't be re- > galvanizing anything soon, I think I just stick with my old rusty > chain there's still lots of metal there > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "brentswain38" > wrote: >> >> Haidan >> If you are sending anything in for galvanizing, let me know. They >> have a minimum charge, so we may as well weld up some anchors and >> send them in too. >> >> --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "theboilerflue" wrote: >>> >>> Maybe they just run the chain though twice one way then the other >>> thus covering everything... as long as the second dip doesn't re- >>> melt the first coating. Anybody know how it's done for new chain? >>> >>> >>> >>> The problem they talked about was not about getting the >>> galvanizing everywhere, but about keeping the links of the chain >>> from being welded together by the zinc. They said the links could >>> be broken apart, but that would pull the galvanized layer off from >>> a spot on one of the links. >>>> >>>> Is there a trick to how it's removed or do you just live with a >>>> missing or thin spot in the coating? >>>> >>>> Doug >>>> "I began life as a bad boy." --Simon Lake, father of the modern >>>> submarine >>>> Join "Bad Boy Submarines" at ArgonautJr.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ________________________________ >>>> From: Gary H. Lucas >>>> To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com >>>> Sent: Sat, January 2, 2010 3:36:25 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [origamiboats] Re: Buggering with the chain >>>> >>>> >>>> A spinner is a basket centrifuge. It is used when they do bolts >>>> and nuts >>>> and small parts. The issue is whether the galvanizer has >>>> spinner, and how >>>> much weight it can hold. A number of galvanizers I have dealt >>>> with don't >>>> have them. >>>> >>>> Gary H. Lucas >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "sae140" >>>> To: >>>> Sent: Saturday, January 02, 2010 9:57 AM >>>> Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Buggering with the chain >>>> >>>> --- In origamiboats@ yahoogroups. com, Doug Jackson >>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Hey Gary >>>>> >>>>> I've talked to the galvanizing place down the street from me about >>>>> galvanizing chain and they don't know how they would keep the >>>>> links from >>>>> sticking to each other when they pulled them from the tank. How >>>>> is that >>>>> done? >>>>> >>>> >>>> I've heard say that they use a thing called a 'spinner' when >>>> galvanising >>>> chain. But exactly what a spinner is and how it works, couldn't >>>> say. >>>> >>>> Colin >>>> >>> >> > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > To Post a message, send it to: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: origamiboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.comYahoo > ! Groups Links > > > | 21972|21867|2010-01-08 04:46:16|Marc|Re: Google take over|Over the years, the arguments below have been used to justify the closing of many email groups and their replacement with Web-based forums. Sadly, this has reduced the number of topics that I can follow, because following forum discussion is significantly more time consuming that just looking through a list of emails. This is partially remedied in recent versions of forum software by options that allow you to subscribe to certain categories and threads...so that you get an email when somebody posts on those topics. But of course you still have to visit from time to time to catch new threads. I just discovered another reason for hating Web-based forums (not that I need any more): no record of my own posts. Over a period of years I have placed long, heavily researched posts on various forums. Now one of them, Roguesci, has disappeared, and with it all the work that I did in posting to that site. So now there's one more time-waster: I have to compose a post in a text file on my computer, save the file locally and then copy its contents into the forum window, unless I want to throw my work away. Make mine email. Marc --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Aaron Williams wrote: > > This was posted on one of my other groups, Sure sounded like something is amiss in Yahoo groups. Anyone else see it in their other groups? > Aaron >   >   > I just cant stand Yahoo groups. > > > > Its so archaic how its set up. No offense to anyone personally. > > > > Forums just make so much more sense, and are so much easier to navigate the way they are setup. > > > > You dont get an email from EVER SINGLE bit of activity on the site (or one email for every 25 bits of activity). Just one plain and simple email from threads you have subscribed to. > > > > > > > > And you dont have to search your ass off to find your last post, or click, read, and back, click, read, and back, click, read, and back, just to read all the replys to your own post. etc etc. > > > > > > > > Is it for security (keeping away non PlasmaCam users)? You can still be just as secure with a forum. > > > > > > > > Or am i just missing something? > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > | 21973|21867|2010-01-08 15:22:06|brentswain38|Re: Google take over|Google has stolen the copyright of tens of thousands of books around the world, telling the authors "We may pay you a pittance for what you've lost, if we feel like it, then again, we may not." If we are looking for a safe alternative for Yahoo, then Google ( or its slimeball salesmen) just don't fit the definition. Best look for an alternative with a better track record, and greater integrity. --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Marc" wrote: > > > Over the years, the arguments below have been used to justify the closing of many email groups and their replacement with Web-based forums. Sadly, this has reduced the number of topics that I can follow, because following forum discussion is significantly more time consuming that just looking through a list of emails. This is partially remedied in recent versions of forum software by options that allow you to subscribe to certain categories and threads...so that you get an email when somebody posts on those topics. But of course you still have to visit from time to time to catch new threads. > > I just discovered another reason for hating Web-based forums (not that I need any more): no record of my own posts. Over a period of years I have placed long, heavily researched posts on various forums. Now one of them, Roguesci, has disappeared, and with it all the work that I did in posting to that site. So now there's one more time-waster: I ha to compose a post in a text file on my computer, save the file locally and then copy its contents into the forum window, unless I want to throw my work away. > > Make mine email. > > Marc > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Aaron Williams wrote: > > > > This was posted on one of my other groups, Sure sounded like something is amiss in Yahoo groups. Anyone else see it in their other groups? > > Aaron > > > > > > I just cant stand Yahoo groups. > > > > > > Its so archaic how its set up. No offense to anyone personally. > > > > > > Forums just make so much more sense, and are so much easier to navigate the way they are setup. > > > > > > You dont get an email from EVER SINGLE bit of activity on the site (or one email for every 25 bits of activity). Just one plain and simple email from threads you have subscribed to. > > > > > > > > > > > > And you dont have to search your ass off to find your last post, or click, read, and back, click, read, and back, click, read, and back, just to read all the replys to your own post. etc etc. > > > > > > > > > > > > Is it for security (keeping away non PlasmaCam users)? You can still be just as secure with a forum. > > > > > > > > > > > > Or am i just missing something? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > | 21974|21867|2010-01-08 18:01:12|wild_explorer|Re: Google take over|Brent, I do not like many things Google does with users' privacy and copyrights. At this point, it is "less evil" kind of things than Yahoo. Google has better marketing strategy and it using (moving back to) 40-50 years old proven technology. Google groups interface is not perfect, but better than Yahoo interface for mobil devices and working "Search" function. If we could move Yahoo group to an independent paid host, it would solve most of the problems (functionality and independence). But it requires some finances (and backup anyway). With paid service, we face the same problem - "What happens if group does not have money to pay for service?" It is possible to solve financial part by using reasonable "subscription fees" for group members. Most people (including me) will not mind to pay (let say) $1/year for groups subscription. But some will be against it. This is very delicate matter... I consider Google group just as FREE alternative with better functionality than Yahoo. This is MY opinion. Ok, folks. Give YOUR opinions - HOW YOU SEE Yahoo groups' future. --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "brentswain38" wrote: > >If we are looking for a safe alternative for Yahoo, then Google ( or its slimeball salesmen) just don't fit the definition. Best look for an alternative with a better track record, and greater integrity. | 21975|21867|2010-01-08 18:11:59|brentswain38|Re: Google take over|Google's arrogance in simply stealing the copyrights of tens of thousands of writers around the world, is a clear warning sign not to get involved with them in any way . --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "wild_explorer" wrote: > > Brent, > > I do not like many things Google does with users' privacy and copyrights. At this point, it is "less evil" kind of things than Yahoo. Google has better marketing strategy and it using (moving back to) 40-50 years old proven technology. Google groups interface is not perfect, but better than Yahoo interface for mobil devices and working "Search" function. > > If we could move Yahoo group to an independent paid host, it would solve most of the problems (functionality and independence). But it requires some finances (and backup anyway). With paid service, we face the same problem - "What happens if group does not have money to pay for service?" It is possible to solve financial part by using reasonable "subscription fees" for group members. Most people (including me) will not mind to pay (let say) $1/year for groups subscription. But some will be against it. This is very delicate matter... > > I consider Google group just as FREE alternative with better functionality than Yahoo. > > This is MY opinion. Ok, folks. Give YOUR opinions - HOW YOU SEE Yahoo groups' future. > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "brentswain38" wrote: > > > >If we are looking for a safe alternative for Yahoo, then Google ( or its slimeball salesmen) just don't fit the definition. Best look for an alternative with a better track record, and greater integrity. > | 21976|21867|2010-01-08 18:47:50|wild_explorer|Re: Google take over|Brent, I respect your opinion. Nothing done yet. I put only internet links in Google group. I would like to hear your and Alex opinion (as well as others members of this group). I strongly believe, members of Yahoo Origamiboats group want to know what OPTIONS we have at this time. Talking about Yahoo vs. Google is not very interesting topic for them. Group's future IS. Do you have some ideas where we can move the Group "just in case"? I can ask owner of "AdvRider" website what will it cost to have similar site for Origamiboats. I really like that members of this site can subscribe/unsubscribe for certain thread and skip others not important to them and how that website organized. --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "brentswain38" wrote: > > Google's arrogance in simply stealing the copyrights of tens of thousands of writers around the world, is a clear warning sign not to get involved with them in any way . | 21977|21850|2010-01-08 19:33:05|Gary H. Lucas|Re: Buggering with Patents|Ted, US patent law is similar. The US is a "first to invent" rather than "first to file" country. So an old photo showing an invention would invalidate a patent, no matter when it was filed. I currently have 4 patents, 3 have expired and are in the public domain, and one I lost when I couldn't pay the "maintenance fees". The maintenance fees are a relative new scheme that will end small inventors owning large portfolios of patents. My one patent came up for "maintenance" after 3 years, and they wanted $500. The next "maintenance fee" was a lot more. I'd have paid it, but had just lost my job, and access to the shop where I made the prototypes, when my employer folded because we BOTH got sued! My patents had some value. A deal I made with a larger company went very bad. However because I held all the patents I was able to force them to write off about $250,000 in debt, and they paid me about $200,000 in royalties over the following 15 years. By the way, the one I lost was for a paint scraper designed to remove bottom paint faster than a grinder. Gary H. Lucas ----- Original Message ----- From: "edward" To: Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2010 4:35 AM Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Buggering with Patents Hi Brent, In the UK if it is already in the public domain then it cannot be patented. I think that it may be different in the US and don't know about Canada. In the UK one can right apply for a patent oneself but the trick is to write it so that it doesn't infringe an existing patent or prior knowledge and it cannot be circumvented by a near copy or future developments. Some public libraries keep copies of patent applications and existing patents and one can view them. The UK Patent Office has booklets on how to apply for them. The actual fees are not that expensive, but to pay a Patent Agent to write one up and then to translate it for worldwide patent applications is. An interesting law case in the UK involved a young man who had a business making and selling windsurfers. A US company who also made windsurfers took him to court in the UK for infringing their patent. I assume that they held a UK patent. However the young man had a photo of him aged 13 on his first windsurfer at a public beach and this date was prior to the US companies application for a UK patent. Therefore, even though the UK Patent Office had granted the patent the case was thrown out due to the invention already being in the public domain. I have wasted a considerable amount of time applying for and being granted UK patents all to no avail, basically because the ideas were not good enough, although after I let one expire it was cited in a subsequent application as prior knowledge. Regards, Ted --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "brentswain38" wrote: > > Does this also put patent ideas into public domain ?I have some boxing > equipment that makes low blows a complete non issue. If I can't afford a > patent, I'm tempted to blow it into public domain, so no one else can > monopolise the idea ( and save some boxers some severe pain) > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "edward" wrote: > > > > > > > > --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "Denis Buggy" wrote: > > > > > > > > > Scott has said all that is sensible to say on this topic for me , > > > > For me too Dennis. My view on copyright is that a post on a web forum > > is in the public domain, very much so, and therefore all copyright has > > been given up. > > > > Regards, > > Ted > > > | 21978|21867|2010-01-08 21:23:58|James Pronk|Re: Google take over|I'm losing patients with all of this. What I do is I copy the emails that have info that I want to keep in my own files. I also have a list of email addresses of some of the members if they are needed down the road. If this group does go down I have a great deal of info on my own computer. It is mostly info that I need for my own build.  You could do the same and we would not have this debate on a non boat building topic. Thank you, James --- On Fri, 1/8/10, wild_explorer wrote: From: wild_explorer Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Google take over To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com Received: Friday, January 8, 2010, 6:01 PM   Brent, I do not like many things Google does with users' privacy and copyrights. At this point, it is "less evil" kind of things than Yahoo. Google has better marketing strategy and it using (moving back to) 40-50 years old proven technology. Google groups interface is not perfect, but better than Yahoo interface for mobil devices and working "Search" function. If we could move Yahoo group to an independent paid host, it would solve most of the problems (functionality and independence) . But it requires some finances (and backup anyway). With paid service, we face the same problem - "What happens if group does not have money to pay for service?" It is possible to solve financial part by using reasonable "subscription fees" for group members. Most people (including me) will not mind to pay (let say) $1/year for groups subscription. But some will be against it. This is very delicate matter... I consider Google group just as FREE alternative with better functionality than Yahoo. This is MY opinion. Ok, folks. Give YOUR opinions - HOW YOU SEE Yahoo groups' future. --- In origamiboats@ yahoogroups. com, "brentswain38" wrote: > >If we are looking for a safe alternative for Yahoo, then Google ( or its slimeball salesmen) just don't fit the definition. Best look for an alternative with a better track record, and greater integrity. __________________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Canada Toolbar: Search from anywhere on the web, and bookmark your favourite sites. Download it now http://ca.toolbar.yahoo.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | 21979|21867|2010-01-08 22:17:13|ric|Re: Google take over|That's good for you James. But what about any new member; are you going to email them your entire collection. Right now I would be a contender for that; assuming you have them totally organised or have a 'search' facility.. So stay patient and I think the outcome will be beneficial. ric hutchings --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, James Pronk wrote: > > I'm losing patients with all of this. > What I do is I copy the emails that have info that I want to keep in my own files. I also have a list of email addresses of some of the members if they are needed down the road. > If this group does go down I have a great deal of info on my own computer. It is mostly info that I need for my own build. >  You could do the same and we would not have this debate on a non boat building topic. > Thank you, > James > | 21980|21867|2010-01-08 23:02:14|Ben Okopnik|Re: Google take over|On Fri, Jan 08, 2010 at 08:21:19PM -0000, brentswain38 wrote: > Google has stolen the copyright of tens of thousands of books around > the world, telling the authors "We may pay you a pittance for what > you've lost, if we feel like it, then again, we may not." If we are > looking for a safe alternative for Yahoo, then Google ( or its > slimeball salesmen) just don't fit the definition. Best look for an > alternative with a better track record, and greater integrity. Well, Brent, you're off a bit in your analysis of their book project - Google obeys the rules set by the authors or their publishers scrupulously, as far as I'm aware - but you're right this far: none of these people are out to do good just for the sake of doing good. But then, we all know that there's no such thing as a free lunch, right? So why expect Google, Yahoo, or anyone else to give us one? This is why USENET discussion groups exist, and this is why privately hosted lists are the way to go - and always have been. Once we finish backing up the Origami archives - and by the way, with the amazing crew of folks who have volunteered, we're about 2/3rds done already! - we'll be able to do that, or anything else we want. If you have a particular preference - say, someone you see as having integrity and a good track record - I'll be more than happy to help you set up the archives at their site. Just let me know. -- OKOPNIK CONSULTING Custom Computing Solutions For Your Business Expert-led Training | Dynamic, vital websites | Custom programming 443-250-7895 http://okopnik.com| 21981|21867|2010-01-09 08:51:23|Marc|Re: Google take over|Neither Google nor anybody else can steal a copyright. What they've done is scan lots of books, put the ones already in the public domain online for free and try to persuade copyright holders to allow their works to be displayed, too. Google doesn't pay anything for the books; what they pay copyright holders are shares of ad revenue from people viewing the books. But that's not all there is to it. The incentive for the publishers to let Google show their books is the sales links that you are allowed. Google is thinking in the long term, anyway. Even if the publisher refuses to have his books displayed, one day they will be in the public domain and the investment in their scanning must pay off. You have a choice - no display until your copyright expires and your work goes into the public domain, or various display options from snippet view (the Web user sees only the line(s) in which his search terms appear), to limited access (sees a few pages at a time) to unlimited viewing and even downloading. I have several technical works that I publish posted on Google Books - I put them there - and my sales have gone up even though I allowed essentially unlimited online use. If I become dissatisfied with Google I can remove my works at any time, or change their display status. Instead, I plan to update my works with their latest editions and leave 'em up. The only thing that irritates me with G.B. is that they automatically insert sales links to Amazon and other big sellers. Since my books are privately printed and sold, Amazon and other retailer searches turn up blank, and Amazon (not Google) in its arrogance says that the book is "currently unavailable" implying that they are an authorized retailer of it and leading some to believe that the book is out of print and unavailable from ANY source. Still, enough people follow my sales link to make the annoyance tolerable. There are things about Google I don't like; Google Books isn't one of them. Best, Marc de Piolenc --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "brentswain38" wrote: > > Google has stolen the copyright of tens of thousands of books around the world, telling the authors "We may pay you a pittance for what you've lost, if we feel like it, then again, we may not." If we are looking for a safe alternative for Yahoo, then Google ( or its slimeball salesmen) just don't fit the definition. Best look for an alternative with a better track record, and greater integrity. > | 21982|21982|2010-01-09 10:17:25|sitefix|wow timing as usual|Ok, i just bought Alex's dvd, have an older copy of Brent's book that I got 8 years ago and have been lurking for many years. Probably signed in as a different user years back. Can't remember. Anyway, I just spent 2 days traveling, got my "dream" welder, and have a place to drop the steel as soon as I figure out 36 or 40. I am gonna order Carl's CD presentation this week and if I am not at sea this spring, I hope to be pulling a hull together. Now, wow, what a mess with the archive situation. I have been following a little, my view is basically, like- There is a lot of info that I would like easy access to. James, you said that you could send emails of post?? Could you please send me the complete "Most Common Mistakes"??? I don't know how to look for them. Can we arrange a group of post in sections such as. Before you order. Getting ready. First things first when on the ground. ETC ETC. This group is here for the purpose of???? HELPING OTHERS TO BUILD ORIGAMI BOATS?????? I think we have a group of very individualistic folks that mostly would be willing to give the shirt of their back when needed. Change???? Maybe, There has been a lot of pro reasons why for, not so many pro reasons why not. Maybe some of both are inaccurate or miss leading. I am not a net guru. I am glad that I can get on here and just do what I do. I hesitate to write this as I am not good at such and don't want a lot of flaming my way. I just just want some help building my boat. Well, I guess I better stop now, before I wax political or religious and really get people mad. Kinda reminds me of "why can't we all just get along". The was a gathering of "cruizers" on the beach. (So I heard) About 15 boats on the hook just off a nice inlet. Fire going, guitar playing and good food and drink. Ground tackle was discussed for a while, and tempers were controlled. Then a certain name came up and 3 people out of the group really started crucifying the person. It got pretty ugly but most people didn't know who it was. One of the sailors, that was maintaining the fire and cooking and passing out drinks got up and bid his adou's. A real nice kinda guy that everyone like and wants to be around. They asked him where he was going as they where getting ready for a evening volley ball game. He said he was leaving because he felt he had to. That's why he lived on a boat and cruised, to stay away from the negative people and flames and etc etc. So, he left. Maybe to meet up somewhere else with some of them. Who knows. Anyways, I am sure that there must be a lot of others lurking in the background that are put off by the whole thing. I don't know the solution and am offering no advice. I have actually quit reading them since I got back and seen that there doesn't look like any let up either way. I am just saying that, wow, I am hoping that somebody has the skill and people personality to help sort this out, before some really nice people that maybe we don't know but should, get up and leave. Such a blessing and such a curse, the internet?? No, humanity! Ah, there I go, I better shut up. Ok, James, I would sure like to go over the common mistakes before I drop the steel. Sincerely, Par "mac" Mancuso (connoisseur of the better things in life, which includes KISS)| 21983|22|2010-01-09 11:12:56|origamiboats@yahoogroups.com|New file uploaded to origamiboats |Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the origamiboats group. File : /Brent's Common Screw-ups List.doc Uploaded by : ngmoore53 Description : Brent's List of Common Screw-ups You can access this file at the URL: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/files/Brent%27s%20Common%20Screw-ups%20List.doc To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit: http://help.yahoo.com/l/us/yahoo/groups/original/members/forms/general.htmlfiles Regards, ngmoore53 | 21984|21850|2010-01-09 12:02:27|theboilerflue|Re: Buggering with Patents|Oh? what's the patent number for that? sounds kinda interesting > > By the way, the one I lost was for a paint scraper designed to remove bottom > paint faster than a grinder. > > Gary H. Lucas | 21985|22|2010-01-09 14:02:25|origamiboats@yahoogroups.com|New file uploaded to origamiboats |Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the origamiboats group. File : /Brent's_Common_Screw-ups_List.pdf Uploaded by : wild_explorer Description : Brent's boat builders Common srew-ups list (PDF format) You can access this file at the URL: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/files/Brent%27s_Common_Screw-ups_List.pdf To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit: http://help.yahoo.com/l/us/yahoo/groups/original/members/forms/general.htmlfiles Regards, wild_explorer | 21986|21867|2010-01-09 15:21:27|ngmoore53|Re: Google take over|I don't contribute much to the group, because I have neither the expertise in metalworking or sailing that many here do have. Which is why I'm very appreciative of all the incredibly useful information they have shared. James summed up my sentiments and what I also have done to gather info for personal use. I think all the group really needs is just some FAQ documents, (I guess in PDF format), that summarize some of the informative building tips we've all gleaned from the messages and discussions that can't be found either in Brent's book, Alex's DVD or Carl's photos and the other files and photos already here, (which really does cover most everything). Then newbies would have a quick reference and we could just tell them to focus their effort on reading and well... building a boat. I take full responsibility for editorializing Brent's comments in Common Screw-ups and apologize if I offended or mischaracterized anything originally posted. I had intended it only for my personal use. Next time I get the urge to post to Files I'll just send it to wildexplorer for PDF conversion first, then he can reap any flack for what I wrote. (Ah, I find that prospect delightfully appealing. What mischief I could do...) --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, James Pronk wrote: > > I'm losing patients with all of this. > What I do is I copy the emails that have info that I want to keep in my own files. I also have a list of email addresses of some of the members if they are needed down the road. > If this group does go down I have a great deal of info on my own computer. It is mostly info that I need for my own build. >  You could do the same and we would not have this debate on a non boat building topic. > Thank you, > James > > > --- On Fri, 1/8/10, wild_explorer wrote: > > > From: wild_explorer > Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Google take over > To: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com > Received: Friday, January 8, 2010, 6:01 PM > > >   > > > > Brent, > > I do not like many things Google does with users' privacy and copyrights. At this point, it is "less evil" kind of things than Yahoo. Google has better marketing strategy and it using (moving back to) 40-50 years old proven technology. Google groups interface is not perfect, but better than Yahoo interface for mobil devices and working "Search" function. > > If we could move Yahoo group to an independent paid host, it would solve most of the problems (functionality and independence) . But it requires some finances (and backup anyway). With paid service, we face the same problem - "What happens if group does not have money to pay for service?" It is possible to solve financial part by using reasonable "subscription fees" for group members. Most people (including me) will not mind to pay (let say) $1/year for groups subscription. But some will be against it. This is very delicate matter... > > I consider Google group just as FREE alternative with better functionality than Yahoo. > > This is MY opinion. Ok, folks. Give YOUR opinions - HOW YOU SEE Yahoo groups' future. > > --- In origamiboats@ yahoogroups. com, "brentswain38" wrote: > > > >If we are looking for a safe alternative for Yahoo, then Google ( or its slimeball salesmen) just don't fit the definition. Best look for an alternative with a better track record, and greater integrity. > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________________________ > Yahoo! Canada Toolbar: Search from anywhere on the web, and bookmark your favourite sites. Download it now > http://ca.toolbar.yahoo.com > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > | 21987|21867|2010-01-09 19:49:45|brentswain38|Re: Google take over|According to a CBC program recently aired Google cut a deal with a group representing US writers, then told the rest of the world "Take it or leave it, we'll take what we want." They assumed that the US is the world. If what the did was legal, then why are they being sued by writers from around the world? --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, Ben Okopnik wrote: > > On Fri, Jan 08, 2010 at 08:21:19PM -0000, brentswain38 wrote: > > Google has stolen the copyright of tens of thousands of books around > > the world, telling the authors "We may pay you a pittance for what > > you've lost, if we feel like it, then again, we may not." If we are > > looking for a safe alternative for Yahoo, then Google ( or its > > slimeball salesmen) just don't fit the definition. Best look for an > > alternative with a better track record, and greater integrity. > > Well, Brent, you're off a bit in your analysis of their book project - > Google obeys the rules set by the authors or their publishers > scrupulously, as far as I'm aware - but you're right this far: none of > these people are out to do good just for the sake of doing good. But > then, we all know that there's no such thing as a free lunch, right? So > why expect Google, Yahoo, or anyone else to give us one? > > This is why USENET discussion groups exist, and this is why privately > hosted lists are the way to go - and always have been. Once we finish > backing up the Origami archives - and by the way, with the amazing crew > of folks who have volunteered, we're about 2/3rds done already! - we'll > be able to do that, or anything else we want. > > If you have a particular preference - say, someone you see as having > integrity and a good track record - I'll be more than happy to help you > set up the archives at their site. Just let me know. > > > -- > OKOPNIK CONSULTING > Custom Computing Solutions For Your Business > Expert-led Training | Dynamic, vital websites | Custom programming > 443-250-7895 http://okopnik.com > | 21988|21867|2010-01-09 20:15:36|Ben Okopnik|Re: Google take over|On Sun, Jan 10, 2010 at 12:49:32AM -0000, brentswain38 wrote: > According to a CBC program recently aired Google cut a deal with a > group representing US writers, then told the rest of the world "Take > it or leave it, we'll take what we want." They assumed that the US > is the world. If what the did was legal, then why are they being sued > by writers from around the world? I have trouble believing news programs about much of anything - their primary goal is to attract an audience, and they do it by EMPHASIZING whatever scrap of news they have (or just blowing hot air when they don't have anything.) In short, they gain nothing from telling you the truth - but they gain viewers by giving them a target to be pissed at. I don't want to get into defending Google - I don't think they're angels in any way. But... Brent, would you want to defend Yahoo against the same kind of probing? I guarantee you I could pull up a list of their misdeeds as long as your arm in a few minutes. The deal is that Yahoo is *definitely* problematic, unreliable, and untrustworthy; Google is, perhaps, a little less so, but still no guarantee of anything. If we have several copies of the group archives saved on the individual members' computers, we're a lot safer from loss - but we're not safe from disruption, or shutdown. Speaking of which: not to be paranoid, but if something *does* happen, we'll need a rally point - at least if we want the group to continue. If this group falls down and goes "BOOM", we'll be able to rebuild it from the archives (once we have them); in addition, once we rebuild it, people will need to know where to go. I'm offering my email address for that purpose: ben@... Might not be a bad idea for everyone to copy and save it somewhere. Again, in my opinion, a group on USENET or on a privately-hosted server is a lot better off - but if we're not doing that, then let's at least have this, or something like it, as a minimal contingency plan. I mean, hell - for *us* (cruisers, sailors, independent thinkers all!) not to have a fallback plan in case of emergency is just ridiculous. :) -- OKOPNIK CONSULTING Custom Computing Solutions For Your Business Expert-led Training | Dynamic, vital websites | Custom programming 443-250-7895 http://okopnik.com| 21989|21989|2010-01-09 22:14:33|Ben Okopnik|Yahoo-mangled email addresses|I've just been told that my email address didn't come through in my last email; seems that Yahoo mangles email addresses even in the text we send to the group. Kinda supports the point I was making, I guess. I'll try it again, with some mangler-defeating variations; if I can't get past their automated parsing, I'll hang up my programming hat. :) ben-at-okopnik-dot-com b e n @ o k o p n i k . c o m My first name at my last name with '.com' on the end b e n @ o k o p n i k . c o m At the very least, you can always go to my website (shown below) and click the 'Contact us' link. :) -- OKOPNIK CONSULTING Custom Computing Solutions For Your Business Expert-led Training | Dynamic, vital websites | Custom programming 443-250-7895 http://okopnik.com| 21990|21850|2010-01-09 22:18:05|Gary H. Lucas|Re: Buggering with Patents|5,951,781 Gary H. Lucas ----- Original Message ----- From: "theboilerflue" To: Sent: Saturday, January 09, 2010 11:58 AM Subject: [origamiboats] Re: Buggering with Patents Oh? what's the patent number for that? sounds kinda interesting > > By the way, the one I lost was for a paint scraper designed to remove > bottom > paint faster than a grinder. > > Gary H. Lucas | 21991|21867|2010-01-09 22:34:43|James Pronk|Re: Google take over|I have been keeping notes as well. I have a book with info that I have found relevent to the work that I will be doing on my own boat. I also sail with paper charts as well as using a gps. James Again, in my opinion, a group on USENET or on a privately-hosted server is a lot better off - but if we're not doing that, then let's at least have this, or something like it, as a minimal contingency plan. I mean, hell - for *us* (cruisers, sailors, independent thinkers all!) not to have a fallback plan in case of emergency is just ridiculous. :) -- OKOPNIK CONSULTING Custom Computing Solutions For Your Business Expert-led Training | Dynamic, vital websites | Custom programming 443-250-7895 http://okopnik. com __________________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Canada Toolbar: Search from anywhere on the web, and bookmark your favourite sites. Download it now http://ca.toolbar.yahoo.com. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]| 21992|21867|2010-01-09 22:48:53|Ben Okopnik|Re: Google take over|On Sat, Jan 09, 2010 at 07:34:37PM -0800, James Pronk wrote: > > I have been keeping notes as well. I have a book with info that I have > found relevent to the work that I will be doing on my own boat. > I also sail with paper charts as well as using a gps. Yep. That's the smart approach, and _exactly_ what I'm talking about doing here. -- OKOPNIK CONSULTING Custom Computing Solutions For Your Business Expert-led Training | Dynamic, vital websites | Custom programming 443-250-7895 http://okopnik.com| 21993|22|2010-01-10 01:00:15|origamiboats@yahoogroups.com|New file uploaded to origamiboats |Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the origamiboats group. File : /Start-On_What_to_build_before_pulling_the_Hul.pdf Uploaded by : wild_explorer Description : These parts you can pre-build before pulling the hull. Recommended by Brent. File sent to me by ngmoore53. You can access this file at the URL: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/files/Start-On_What_to_build_before_pulling_the_Hul.pdf To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit: http://help.yahoo.com/l/us/yahoo/groups/original/members/forms/general.htmlfiles Regards, wild_explorer | 21994|21867|2010-01-10 12:17:21|Leif Thomsen|SV: [origamiboats] Re: Google take over|Ben - thanks for all Your effort in making this very informative group survive in the future. /Leif Thomsen -----Ursprungligt meddelande----- FrÃ¥n: origamiboats@yahoogroups.com [mailto:origamiboats@yahoogroups.com] För Ben Okopnik Skickat: den 10 januari 2010 04:49 Till: Origami Boat list Ämne: Re: [origamiboats] Re: Google take over On Sat, Jan 09, 2010 at 07:34:37PM -0800, James Pronk wrote: > > I have been keeping notes as well. I have a book with info that I have > found relevent to the work that I will be doing on my own boat. > I also sail with paper charts as well as using a gps. Yep. That's the smart approach, and _exactly_ what I'm talking about doing here. __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4758 (20100110) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com | 21995|21995|2010-01-10 14:26:49|mkriley48|food for thought|this was once one of the biggest sites on the internet full of do it yourself websites check it out http://geocities.yahoo.com/index.php| 21996|21996|2010-01-10 17:17:48|ANDREW AIREY|Google takeover|From what I've seen of the Epublishing scene so far - I was given a Sony Ereader for christmas,idea being that it might limit my bookbuying - if the trade doesn't sort itself out then it is likely to face the same problems that the music industry has.At the moment if it's out of copyright you stand a good chance of getting it off Googlebooks.If it's recent then it may have been published as an Ebook - typically at about 75% of the price of a new hardback,which doesn't strike me as a particularly good bargain and invites the production of pirate copies.But what about the books that are out of print and unlikely to be republished in hard copy while the copyright exists - surely it's better for them to be available as a Googlebook and derive some revenue from that.Asking the local library doesn't always work - I wanted to read 'The Voyage of the Annie Marble' and 'Annie Marble in Germany' - and even the British Library couldn't turn up a copy of the second.As luck would have it these had both been republished in recent years in the USA so I got copies from there but I could easily have been unlucky cheers Andy Airey Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com| 21997|21982|2010-01-10 18:41:20|wild_explorer|Re: wow timing as usual|Looks like you just want updated revision of Brent's book. I would like to see new revision of Brent's book too, which includes all information Brent was so kind to share with this group over the years. --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "sitefix" wrote: > Can we arrange a group of post in sections such as. Before you order. Getting ready. First things first when on the ground. ETC ETC. | 21998|21867|2010-01-10 21:20:55|Ben Okopnik|Re: SV: [origamiboats] Re: Google take over|On Sun, Jan 10, 2010 at 06:16:59PM +0100, Leif Thomsen wrote: > Ben - thanks for all Your effort in making this very informative group > survive in the future. Leif, you're more than welcome. I've been putting in the effort as much for myself as for everyone else here; I don't want the collective wisdom of this group - much less Brent's amazing advice and help to everyone - to disappear, and I want us all to be able to use it. Oh, and - now that the download project is almost done (there are only 2 more sets of posts left to download!) - I'd like to publicly thank the hard-working volunteers that made it all happen. Haidan, Jim, Leigh, Paul, and Scott - take a bow, team! Thank you all for your patience and your participation. You rock! -- OKOPNIK CONSULTING Custom Computing Solutions For Your Business Expert-led Training | Dynamic, vital websites | Custom programming 443-250-7895 http://okopnik.com| 21999|21982|2010-01-10 21:24:17|wild_explorer|Re: wow timing as usual|Correction: Sorry for possible misinformation. Need to read "Hopefuly, new revision of Brent's book WILL HAVE all information he was so kind to share with this group over the years". Personally, I prefer to read book - not computer screen. --- In origamiboats@yahoogroups.com, "wild_explorer" wrote: > > Looks like you just want updated revision of Brent's book. I would like to see new revision of Brent's book too, which includes all information Brent was so kind to share with this group over the years. > | 22000|22000|2010-01-10 22:11:00|wild_explorer|Origami boat to power away stage in 1 month. Dream or reality?|Reading this group, I was surprised that many people pointed out, that every BS36 is slightly different. And that why it take longer to fit parts/furniture in it. This is what puzles me. If pattern of the hull (and other parts) was/were plasma pre-cut from CNC files, aligning marks were made during CNC cut, all pull points were placed in exact pre-determined locations, hull pulled to proper beam and measured at marks made during CNC cut, etc WHY every hull would be different? I cannot understand it from my not-so-great mechanical point of view. This brings another subject. I do not plan to weld the hull by myself (it is not my field). If all recommended by Brent part were prebuilt, engine ordered, propeller shaft and propeller available, etc. IS IT POSSIBLE to build BS40 with help of 1 reputable boatbuilder/welder in 1 month to power-away stage (no rigging - engine only)? As I understand, if steel was wheel abrided and primed by steel supplier, most time consuming work is to clean/wirebrush welds/scraped_primer and put touch-up primer on welds/hull every day to protect it from corrosion. Another possible hold-up is sand-blasting (if needed), painting and insulation. Before insulation it is need to make all "mounting" rails/tabs for future furniture. I would like to know amount of man-hours to buld BS40. Let say working 8-10 hours a day, with regular speed doing quility work (without need to scrounge for extra metal and lead). Another important consideration is the PRICE. I agree, it is possible to find cheap steel and stainless steel on scrap yards. But sometimes, it would be more expensive to move such metal to building site, than buy it from local supplier (if no good scrap yards available in the area). Another question, how much suppliers charge for plasma cutting? Will be most suppliers able to cut plates for BS40 half-hull? Am I dreaming?|